From nospam at dfs.com  Fri Apr  1 00:07:45 2016
From: nospam at dfs.com (DFS)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 00:07:45 -0400
Subject: Use pyodbc to count and list tables, columns, indexes, etc
In-Reply-To: <ndkqkp$2nq$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ndkqkp$2nq$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ndks0j$5pq$1@dont-email.me>

On 3/31/2016 11:44 PM, DFS wrote:
> ================================================================
> import pyodbc
>
> dbName = "D:\test_data.mdb"
> conn = pyodbc.connect('DRIVER={Microsoft Access Driver
> (*.mdb)};DBQ='+dbName)
> cursor = conn.cursor()
>
> #COUNT TABLES, LIST COLUMNS
> tblCount = 0
> for rows in cursor.tables():
>      if rows.table_type == "TABLE":  #LOCAL TABLES ONLY
>          tblCount += 1
>          print rows.table_name
>          for fld in cursor.columns(rows.table_name):
>              print(fld.table_name, fld.column_name)
>
> print tblCount,"tables"
> ================================================================
>
> Problem is, the 'for rows' loop executes only once if the 'for fld' loop
> is in place.  So even if I have 50 tables, the output is like:
>
> DATA_TYPES
> (u'DATA_TYPES', u'FLD_TEXT', -9, u'VARCHAR')
> (u'DATA_TYPES', u'FLD_MEMO', -10, u'LONGCHAR')
> (u'DATA_TYPES', u'FLD_NBR_BYTE', -6, u'BYTE')
> 1 tables
>
> And no errors are thrown.
>
> If I comment out the 2 'for fld' lines, it counts and lists all 50
> tables correctly.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks!


Never mind!  I discovered I just needed a 2nd cursor object for the columns.

-----------------------------------------------------------
  cursor1 = conn.cursor()
  cursor2 = conn.cursor()

  tblCount = 0
  for rows in cursor1.tables():
       if rows.table_type == "TABLE":
           tblCount += 1
           print rows.table_name
           for fld in cursor2.columns(rows.table_name):
               print(fld.table_name, fld.column_name)
-----------------------------------------------------------

Works splendiferously.




From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  1 00:17:16 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 21:17:16 -0700
Subject: Threading is foobared?
In-Reply-To: <1459401951.1771032.564341266.6995438B@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1459401951.1771032.564341266.6995438B@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <56FDF64C.2020101@msapiro.net>

Random832 wrote:

> Any chance that it could fix reference headers to match?
> 
> Actually, merely prepending the original Message-ID itself to the
> references header might be enough to change the reply's situation from
> "nephew" ("reply to [missing] sibling") to "grandchild" ("reply to
> [missing] reply"), which might be good enough to make threading work
> right on most clients, and would be *easy* (whereas maintaining an
> ongoing reversible mapping may not be).
> 
> And if it's not too much additional work, maybe throw in an
> X-Mailman-Original-Message-ID (and -References if anything is done with
> that) field, so that the original state can be recovered.


I think these are good ideas. I'm going to try to do something along
these lines.


> Rather than exclusively rewriting for usenet, maybe the rewritten
> headers could also be included in outgoing emails and the archive?
> 
> Putting it in outgoing emails would solve the problem entirely, though
> it would mean people get duplicates if they're subscribed to multiple
> lists to which something is posted or get CC'd. The archive wouldn't
> have this issue.


This is more difficult since archiving, gatewaying to Usenet and
delivery to list members are asynchronous processes that have no way to
communicate with each other.

It could be accomplished by doing a Usenet check in the incoming
pipeline and putting the Mailman Message-ID in the message metadata or
doing the mods at that point, but I don't think I want to expand the
scope of something that is non RFC compliant in the first place.

I need to think about these things some more.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  1 00:17:23 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 21:17:23 -0700
Subject: Threading is foobared?
In-Reply-To: <1459402204.1771438.564347074.6B36AF7F@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1459402204.1771438.564347074.6B36AF7F@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <56FDF653.6030206@msapiro.net>

Random832 wrote:

> One additional thing that would be nice and would solve most of the
> duplicate problem with hypothetically including the rewritten
> Message-IDs in outgoing emails, would be to detect crossposts to
> multiple lists in the same Mailman instance, and to send them to Usenet
> (and to subscribers) as a single message, with appropriate headers for a
> crosspost.


This is difficult to do for various reasons. The main issue is gating to
news is asynchronously done by a separate process. Even if the process
could reliably determine that another gatewayed list in the installation
was a recipient of this post which it could only do by examining
explicit addressees and the other list might be a Bcc:, we'd still have
to arbitrate somehow which post gets gatewayed to the multiple news
groups and which ones get dropped. Although I suppose we could send each
one for all the news groups and let the news server figure it out.

Anyway, I don't plan to try this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gandalf at shopzeus.com  Fri Apr  1 01:24:53 2016
From: gandalf at shopzeus.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Nagy_L=c3=a1szl=c3=b3_Zsolt?=)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 07:24:53 +0200
Subject: Set type for datetime intervals
Message-ID: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>

 
  Hello,

I need to compare sets of datetime intervals, and make set operations on
them: intersect, union, difference etc. One element of a set would be an
interval like this:

element ::= (start_point_in_time, end_point_in_time)
intervalset ::= { element1, element2, .... }

Operations on elements:

element1.intersect(element2)
element1.union(element2)
element1.minus(element2)

Operations on sets:

intervalset1.intersect(intervalset2)
intervalset1.union(intervalset2)
intervalset1.minus(intervalset2)

Does anyone know a library that already implements these functions?

Thanks,

  Laszlo




From stefan at dilettant.eu  Fri Apr  1 01:34:54 2016
From: stefan at dilettant.eu (Stefan Hagen)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 07:34:54 +0200
Subject: Ammended proposal: Python 832? Re: The next major Python version will
 be Python 8
In-Reply-To: <CAMpsgwbAFXDF3Rz4dPktTzuycMAfdzzvknnmRuG=V8bBXvh0_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMpsgwbAFXDF3Rz4dPktTzuycMAfdzzvknnmRuG=V8bBXvh0_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56FE087E.8030209@dilettant.eu>

Sorry for the blunt terseness, but wasn't the plan to target Python 832
i.e. 8.3.2 as a single, frozen thus *eternal* version tag to firstly
integrate all beauty (PEP8), good (3.x), bad (2.x) and secondly
**never** have to embrace those thrilling, dirty changes again, was it?

$ python832 -m stefan
Before you write, think, after you read.

Am 01.04.16 um 00:26 schrieb Victor Stinner:
> Hi,
> 
> Python 3 becomes more and more popular and is close to a dangerous point
> where it can become popular that Python 2. The PSF decided that it's
> time to elaborate a new secret plan to ensure that Python users suffer
> again with a new major release breaking all their legacy code.
> 
> The PSF is happy to announce that the new Python release will be
> Python 8!
> 
> Why the version 8? It's just to be greater than Perl 6 and PHP 7, but
> it's also a mnemonic for PEP 8. By the way, each minor release will now
> multiply the version by 2. With Python 8 released in 2016 and one
> release every two years, we will beat Firefox 44 in 2022 (Python 64) and
> Windows 2003 in 2032 (Python 2048).
> 
> A major release requires a major change to justify a version bump: the
> new killer feature is that it's no longer possible to import a module
> which does not respect the PEP 8. It ensures that all your code is pure.
> Example:
> 
>     $ python8 -c 'import keyword'
>     Lib/keyword.py:16:1: E122 continuation line missing indentation or outdented
>     Lib/keyword.py:16:1: E265 block comment should start with '# '
>     Lib/keyword.py:50:1: E122 continuation line missing indentation or outdented
>     (...)
>     ImportError: no pep8, no glory
> 
> Good news: since *no* module of the current standard library of Python 3
> respect the PEP 8, the standard library will be simplified to one
> unique module, which is new in Python 8: pep8. The standard library will
> move to the Python Cheeseshop (PyPI), to reply to an old and popular
> request.
> 
> 
> DON'T PANIC! You are still able to import your legacy code into
> Python 8, you just have to rename all your modules to add a "_noqa" suffix
> to the filename. For example, rename utils.py to utils_noqa.py. A side
> effect is that you have to update all imports. For example, replace
> "import django" with "import django_noqa". After a study of the PSF,
> it's a best option to split again the Python community and make sure
> that all users are angry.
> 
> 
> The plan is that in 10 years, at least 50% of the 77,000 packages on the
> Python cheeseshop will be updated to get the "_noqa" tag. After 2020,
> the PSF will start to sponsor trolls to harass users of the legacy
> Python 3 to force them to migrate to Python 8.
> 
> 
> Python 8 is a work-in-progress (it's still an alpha version), the
> standard library was not removed yet. Hopefully, trying to import any
> module of the standard library fails.
> 
> Don't hesitate to propose more ideas to make Python 8 more incompatible
> with Python 3!
> 
> Note: The change is already effective in the default branch of Python:
> https://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/9aedec2dbc01
> 
> Have fun,
> Victor
> 


-- 
Stefan Hagen
read://stefan-hagen.website
talk://0049 151 70 89 64 00


From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr  1 01:41:14 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 16:41:14 +1100
Subject: Issue with opening a python file
References: <mailman.297.1459487421.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <56fe09fc$0$1591$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 02:56 pm, Daniel Ding wrote:

> Hello, I'm relatively new to python.
> Recently I have been receiving errors every time I attempt to open python
> files. When try open them, it sends me directly to the 'Modify Setup'
> window. Clicking on repair or modify does not fix the problem, it simply
> goes through the repair or modify process and then closes, whilst the
> problem still persists.  Is there any possible fix for this?

Depends. What has changed? Have you upgrade the OS? (Windows 8 apparently
tends to auto-update to Windows 10 without warning.) Installed a new
version of Python which doesn't work?

What happens if you try to launch the Python application directly, without a
file? Open a shell (command.exe or cmd.com or whatever Windows calls it)
and try entering "python" or "python3". What happens?

If you get an error message, try to copy and paste the complete error
message into your reply. Otherwise try to type out the actual error
message.

Don't bother taking a screen-shot unless the message is extremely large:
firstly, this mailing list and newsgroup will delete attachments, so you
would have to post it to imgur or similar, and secondly, a screen-shot is
of no use to anyone using a screen reader.



-- 
Steven



From muhkader at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 03:34:20 2016
From: muhkader at gmail.com (A. ElKader)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 10:34:20 +0300
Subject: Help is needed!
Message-ID: <CABFDRLE4BFpU6yx_Pa3Sx6k9yrUK7iKcsBvAJsOOpyqgirKjgA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am trying to do the following :

I am trying to show the changes in the command line in real time in my
Tkinter GUI, I managed to create the GUI and integrate the terminal into
it, but I cant bind the buttons with the terminal, my code is :

import Tkinterfrom Tkinter import *import subprocessimport osfrom os
import system as cmd

WINDOW_SIZE = "600x400"
top = Tkinter.Tk()
top.geometry(WINDOW_SIZE)
def helloCallBack():
   print "Below is the output from the shell script in terminal"
   subprocess.call('perl
/projects/tfs/users/$USER/scripts_coverage.pl', shell=True)def
BasicCovTests():
   print "Below is the output from the shell script in terminal"
   subprocess.call('perl
/projects/tfs/users/$USER/basic_coverage_tests.pl', shell=True)def
FullCovTests():
   print "Below is the output from the shell script in terminal"
   subprocess.call('perl
/projects/tfs/users/$USER/basic_coverage_tests.pl', shell=True)

Scripts_coverage  = Tkinter.Button(top, text ="Scripts Coverage",
command = helloCallBack)Scripts_coverage.pack()
Basic_coverage_tests  = Tkinter.Button(top, text ="Basic Coverage
Tests", command = BasicCovTests)Basic_coverage_tests.pack()
Full_coverage_tests  = Tkinter.Button(top, text ="Full Coverage
Tests", command = FullCovTests)Full_coverage_tests.pack()

termf = Frame(top, height=100, width=500)

termf.pack(fill=BOTH, expand=YES)
wid = termf.winfo_id()

os.system('xterm -into %d -geometry 100x20 -sb &' % wid)
def send_entry_to_terminal(*args):
    """*args needed since callback may be called from no arg (button)
   or one arg (entry)
   """
    cmd("%s" % (BasicCovTests))

top.mainloop()
I want win I click the button to see it printing the command in the
terminal[image: enter image description here]
<http://i.stack.imgur.com/6pSN8.png>


How do I do that ???

Please advice


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Fri Apr  1 03:59:23 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 09:59:23 +0200
Subject: Suggestion: make sequence and map interfaces more similar
In-Reply-To: <ndjb90$15e$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CABbU2U_DsSC=6d0HOwgGnzQZ0=r6U2sf_zOJP0U_w7_i0RrOKQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.176.1459309120.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fb677f$0$11121$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <lf5twjoo2w8.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <56fba7d3$0$1616$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <lf5h9fouumu.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <56fbc518$0$1593$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.203.1459343574.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fbf73d$0$1591$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.222.1459364926.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fc8e09$0$1600$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.240.1459410739.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fcfdc6$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <56FD086F.2090301@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmqTaZzE6+P66K7B5LFEo7bWBHhJrOEpWrJUPf7QWVSMSA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56FD2158.2050406@rece.vub.ac.be> <ndj813$5g0$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <1459430873.2282305.564680498.6FEA3042@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <ndjb90$15e$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <56FE2A5B.8000804@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 31-03-16 om 16:12 schreef Mark Lawrence via Python-list:
> On 31/03/2016 14:27, Random832 wrote:
>> So can we discuss how a unified method to get a set of all valid
>> subscripts (and/or subscript-value pairs) on an object would be a useful
>> thing to have without getting bogged down in theoretical claptrap about
>> the meaning of the mapping contract?
>>
>
> We can discuss anything here until the cows come home, but it's a
> complete waste of time if the powers that be over on python-ideas
> and/or python-dev don't agree.  This was suggested a day or two back
> but seems to have gone completely over people's heads.

Just because you are not interested, doesn't mean it's a complete waste of time.
Discussions like this often enough produce suggestions on how one could handle
these things within python without the need for the powers that be to agree on
anything.

If you are not interested just don't contribute. Others can make up their own
mind on whether this is a waste of their time or not.

-- 
Antoon. 



From michael.selik at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 04:19:56 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 04:19:56 -0400
Subject: Suggestion: make sequence and map interfaces more similar
In-Reply-To: <87lh4ylp8p.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <CABbU2U_DsSC=6d0HOwgGnzQZ0=r6U2sf_zOJP0U_w7_i0RrOKQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABbU2U9m-35UqK5KqRj7Y_oLdq_dgH3_EScLb4Sf3UNB4oCgmQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmp1x-5=gEwBB=n-kt6YeVd6OiN_BGh5tNoL7UPYNqKb8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.176.1459309120.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fb677f$0$11121$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <lf5twjoo2w8.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <56fba7d3$0$1616$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <lf5h9fouumu.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <56fbc518$0$1593$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.203.1459343574.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fbf73d$0$1591$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.222.1459364926.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fc8e09$0$1600$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.240.1459410739.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fcfdc6$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <56FD086F.2090301@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.251.1459425470.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87poualt87.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.254.1459428536.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4ylp8p.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <A217D064-1432-4E12-B2A4-3700ADB1B5DD@gmail.com>


> On Mar 31, 2016, at 10:02 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> 
> However, weirdly, dicts have get but lists don't.

Read PEP 463 for discussion on this topic.
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0463/


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Fri Apr  1 04:27:25 2016
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 09:27:25 +0100
Subject: Suggestion: make sequence and map interfaces more similar
In-Reply-To: <56FE2A5B.8000804@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <CABbU2U_DsSC=6d0HOwgGnzQZ0=r6U2sf_zOJP0U_w7_i0RrOKQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.176.1459309120.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fb677f$0$11121$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <lf5twjoo2w8.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <56fba7d3$0$1616$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <lf5h9fouumu.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <56fbc518$0$1593$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.203.1459343574.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fbf73d$0$1591$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.222.1459364926.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fc8e09$0$1600$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.240.1459410739.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fcfdc6$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <56FD086F.2090301@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmqTaZzE6+P66K7B5LFEo7bWBHhJrOEpWrJUPf7QWVSMSA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56FD2158.2050406@rece.vub.ac.be> <ndj813$5g0$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <1459430873.2282305.564680498.6FEA3042@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <ndjb90$15e$1@ger.gmane.org> <56FE2A5B.8000804@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <56FE30ED.90406@timgolden.me.uk>

On 01/04/2016 08:59, Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Op 31-03-16 om 16:12 schreef Mark Lawrence via Python-list:
>> On 31/03/2016 14:27, Random832 wrote:
>>> So can we discuss how a unified method to get a set of all valid
>>> subscripts (and/or subscript-value pairs) on an object would be a useful
>>> thing to have without getting bogged down in theoretical claptrap about
>>> the meaning of the mapping contract?
>>>
>>
>> We can discuss anything here until the cows come home, but it's a
>> complete waste of time if the powers that be over on python-ideas
>> and/or python-dev don't agree.  This was suggested a day or two back
>> but seems to have gone completely over people's heads.
> 
> Just because you are not interested, doesn't mean it's a complete waste of time.
> Discussions like this often enough produce suggestions on how one could handle
> these things within python without the need for the powers that be to agree on
> anything.
> 
> If you are not interested just don't contribute. Others can make up their own
> mind on whether this is a waste of their time or not.

FWIW I'm broadly with Antoon here: wider-ranging discussions can be
interesting and useful. (And informative, especially where people speak
knowledgeably about an area outside my own competence). There *are*
technical forums where anything outside their strict subject matter is
frowned upon or curtailed. I don't think we need to be that rigid here.

However I think there are a couple of lines which can be crossed. In one
case a a poster (perhaps abruptly) says: I think Python should do this;
why doesn't it? The other is where the discussion goes so far into
cloud-cuckoo land that it alienates all but a few devoted adherents to
the thread. Especially where it goes round in circles.

For the latter, I take the view that I know where the delete key is (or
the "ignore thread" button or whatever) and I just skip the thread when
it shows up. Perhaps missing some interesting points in the process if
it comes back down to earth but that's the way it goes.

For the former, I think it's fine if someone is asking in a genuine
spirit of enquiry, ie to learn about the history of a particular
decision or the ramifications of an alternative which might not be
obvious at first glance. (Why do we have both lists and tuples? Why does
Python index from 0? etc). People who know something about it can
explain if they wish.

If it becomes clear that the poster is in fact pushing for a change
(either intelligently thought-out or naively ill-considered) then I
would push them towards Python-ideas sooner than later, because that's
exactly the purpose of *that* mailing list. People on python-ideas want
to go to and fro over the relative merits of proposals. Specifically, I
believe that's the only mailing list which GvR follows apart from
python-dev. Any discussion here would likely have to be repeated over
there anyway, so why not go there earlier on?

Courtesy & respect on this and any list are important, so as long as
someone's not being genuinely rude or abusive, your best plan is to make
your point clearly and politely and then step back. I've been impressed
again and again on Python lists where people maintain a courteous front
in the course of a perhaps quite heated discussion. And more impressed
when people who have lost their cool come back and apologise (without
necessarily backing down from their point, of course).

Feel free to contact the list owner [python-list-owner at python.org] if
you think there's a real contravention of the list etiquette but I'm
personally not inclined to jump too heavily on rambling discussions or
wild-eyed ideas as such.

TJG


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 04:30:06 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 08:30:06 +0000
Subject: The next major Python version will be Python 8
In-Reply-To: <56fdf000$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CAMpsgwbWZqxE64zVWevadhivi8QDSSdVeu4XU6SL96nc2X3fxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <ndkdqq$162$1@ger.gmane.org> <56FDBC3B.80202@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.292.1459469631.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fdf000$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkMjWbTbtB3fUojdbVc7bQDqTgBkpme0MWOjcBXBp1tv5w@mail.gmail.com>

It suddenly occurred to me that if Microsoft announced it's
Ubuntu-in-Windows feature today, no one would believe it.

On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 11:55 PM Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>
wrote:

> On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 11:13 am, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
> > Now's the time to get in with the ideas. My proposal is that Python 8,
> > in keeping with its new opinionated style, will require everyone to
> > follow a single timezone: Europe/Amsterdam.
>
> Swatch Internet time:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time
>
>
> --
> Steven
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Apr  1 05:04:04 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 10:04:04 +0100
Subject: Suggestion: make sequence and map interfaces more similar
In-Reply-To: <56FE2A5B.8000804@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <CABbU2U_DsSC=6d0HOwgGnzQZ0=r6U2sf_zOJP0U_w7_i0RrOKQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.176.1459309120.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fb677f$0$11121$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <lf5twjoo2w8.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <56fba7d3$0$1616$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <lf5h9fouumu.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <56fbc518$0$1593$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.203.1459343574.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fbf73d$0$1591$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.222.1459364926.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fc8e09$0$1600$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.240.1459410739.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fcfdc6$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <56FD086F.2090301@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmqTaZzE6+P66K7B5LFEo7bWBHhJrOEpWrJUPf7QWVSMSA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56FD2158.2050406@rece.vub.ac.be> <ndj813$5g0$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <1459430873.2282305.564680498.6FEA3042@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <ndjb90$15e$1@ger.gmane.org> <56FE2A5B.8000804@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <ndldi6$n9s$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 01/04/2016 08:59, Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Op 31-03-16 om 16:12 schreef Mark Lawrence via Python-list:
>> On 31/03/2016 14:27, Random832 wrote:
>>> So can we discuss how a unified method to get a set of all valid
>>> subscripts (and/or subscript-value pairs) on an object would be a useful
>>> thing to have without getting bogged down in theoretical claptrap about
>>> the meaning of the mapping contract?
>>>
>>
>> We can discuss anything here until the cows come home, but it's a
>> complete waste of time if the powers that be over on python-ideas
>> and/or python-dev don't agree.  This was suggested a day or two back
>> but seems to have gone completely over people's heads.
>
> Just because you are not interested, doesn't mean it's a complete waste of time.
> Discussions like this often enough produce suggestions on how one could handle
> these things within python without the need for the powers that be to agree on
> anything.
>
> If you are not interested just don't contribute. Others can make up their own
> mind on whether this is a waste of their time or not.
>

Who said I'm not interested?  It is a simple fact of life in Python 
world that anything that gets discussed has to go through python-dev, 
and possibly python-ideas first.  You can spend years discussing 
anything you like here and get 100% agreement, but if the devlopers say 
no it does not happen.

I believe that this proposal is like trying to change the design of the 
Morris Minor and a McClaren Mercedes because they're both cars, so you 
can make them similar.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Fri Apr  1 05:44:42 2016
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 09:44:42 GMT
Subject: The next major Python version will be Python 8
Message-ID: <eqrLy.328362$fy.94010@fx45.am4>

On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 11:13:43 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us>
> wrote:
>> On 03/31/2016 05:02 PM, Roel Schroeven wrote:
>>>
>>> Victor Stinner schreef op 2016-03-31 23:40:
>>
>>
>>>> Python 3 becomes more and more popular and is close to a dangerous
>>>> point where it can become popular that Python 2. The PSF decided that
>>>> it's time to elaborate a new secret plan to ensure that Python users
>>>> suffer again with a new major release breaking all their legacy code.
>>>
>>>
>>> "2016-03-31 23:40"
>>> You're 20 minutes early :)
>>
>>
>> No, that's a naive datetime.  You need to travel to Victor's location
>> to figure out what that is there.
>>
>> I sure hope Python 8 doesn't have that problem!
> 
> Now's the time to get in with the ideas. My proposal is that Python 8,
> in keeping with its new opinionated style, will require everyone to
> follow a single timezone: Europe/Amsterdam.
> 
> ChrisA

Not bad but it would have to be Zulu (GMT)



-- 
Nobody's gonna believe that computers are intelligent until they start
coming in late and lying about it.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 05:57:45 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 20:57:45 +1100
Subject: The next major Python version will be Python 8
In-Reply-To: <eqrLy.328362$fy.94010@fx45.am4>
References: <eqrLy.328362$fy.94010@fx45.am4>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqV3aRM5sEPd0d2rXeoiEgjtumUpRav-TT4mDkiJLKitg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 8:44 PM, alister <alister.ware at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 11:13:43 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> Now's the time to get in with the ideas. My proposal is that Python 8,
>> in keeping with its new opinionated style, will require everyone to
>> follow a single timezone: Europe/Amsterdam.
>>
>> ChrisA
>
> Not bad but it would have to be Zulu (GMT)

Why? Nothing in Python's documentation ever says you have to be a Zuul
to understand its design choices!

ChrisA


From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr  1 06:38:50 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 21:38:50 +1100
Subject: Suggestion: make sequence and map interfaces more similar
References: <CABbU2U_DsSC=6d0HOwgGnzQZ0=r6U2sf_zOJP0U_w7_i0RrOKQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56fb677f$0$11121$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <lf5twjoo2w8.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <56fba7d3$0$1616$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <lf5h9fouumu.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <56fbc518$0$1593$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.203.1459343574.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fbf73d$0$1591$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.222.1459364926.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fc8e09$0$1600$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.240.1459410739.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fcfdc6$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <56FD086F.2090301@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmqTaZzE6+P66K7B5LFEo7bWBHhJrOEpWrJUPf7QWVSMSA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56FD2158.2050406@rece.vub.ac.be> <ndj813$5g0$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <1459430873.2282305.564680498.6FEA3042@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <ndjb90$15e$1@ger.gmane.org> <56FE2A5B.8000804@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.305.1459499295.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <56fe4fbc$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 07:27 pm, Tim Golden wrote:

> FWIW I'm broadly with Antoon here: wider-ranging discussions can be
> interesting and useful. 

Sure. But sometimes conversations are going nowhere:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

http://www.montypython.net/scripts/argument.php


[...]
> If it becomes clear that the poster is in fact pushing for a change
> (either intelligently thought-out or naively ill-considered) then I
> would push them towards Python-ideas sooner than later, because that's
> exactly the purpose of *that* mailing list. People on python-ideas want
> to go to and fro over the relative merits of proposals. Specifically, I
> believe that's the only mailing list which GvR follows apart from
> python-dev. Any discussion here would likely have to be repeated over
> there anyway, so why not go there earlier on?

Informally, ideas are supposed to have an initial "sanity check" here to
avoid the really silly ideas:


Q: "Suggestion: I'm sick of writing

for key, value in other_dict.items():
    mydict[key] = value

I think that dicts should have a method to copy all the keys and values from
another dict."

A: "You mean dict.update?"


Or perhaps:

Q: "I think that object oriented programming is too inefficient. I think
that Python should get rid of all the objects and just be a lightweight,
easy-to-read wrapper around C, with the same semantics and limitations as
the 1988 C standard."

A: "Surely you aren't serious?"


But most people don't bother passing ideas through here first, they just go
straight to Python-Ideas.




-- 
Steven



From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr  1 06:50:18 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 13:50:18 +0300
Subject: Suggestion: make sequence and map interfaces more similar
References: <CABbU2U_DsSC=6d0HOwgGnzQZ0=r6U2sf_zOJP0U_w7_i0RrOKQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <lf5twjoo2w8.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <56fba7d3$0$1616$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <lf5h9fouumu.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <56fbc518$0$1593$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.203.1459343574.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fbf73d$0$1591$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.222.1459364926.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fc8e09$0$1600$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.240.1459410739.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fcfdc6$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <56FD086F.2090301@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmqTaZzE6+P66K7B5LFEo7bWBHhJrOEpWrJUPf7QWVSMSA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56FD2158.2050406@rece.vub.ac.be> <ndj813$5g0$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <1459430873.2282305.564680498.6FEA3042@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <ndjb90$15e$1@ger.gmane.org> <56FE2A5B.8000804@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.305.1459499295.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fe4fbc$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <8737r5li1h.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:

> On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 07:27 pm, Tim Golden wrote:
>
>> FWIW I'm broadly with Antoon here: wider-ranging discussions can be
>> interesting and useful. 
>
> Sure. But sometimes conversations are going nowhere:

That's why GNUS has the "k" command to wipe out a whole thread.

I know, it depends on threading working...


Marko


From saxri89 at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 06:56:39 2016
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (saxri89 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 03:56:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: install open cv on windows 10 and python 3.5
Message-ID: <8b4a2755-388a-43fa-8ab3-ae416ff87950@googlegroups.com>

hello,

i have windows 10 and python 3.5 and i want to use
open cv but i think so opencv work only on python 2.7 ?
and i install this http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#opencv
but not work again


From gvanem at yahoo.no  Fri Apr  1 09:06:20 2016
From: gvanem at yahoo.no (Gisle Vanem)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 15:06:20 +0200
Subject: The next major Python version will be Python 8
In-Reply-To: <CAGgTfkMjWbTbtB3fUojdbVc7bQDqTgBkpme0MWOjcBXBp1tv5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMpsgwbWZqxE64zVWevadhivi8QDSSdVeu4XU6SL96nc2X3fxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <ndkdqq$162$1@ger.gmane.org> <56FDBC3B.80202@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.292.1459469631.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fdf000$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAGgTfkMjWbTbtB3fUojdbVc7bQDqTgBkpme0MWOjcBXBp1tv5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56FE724C.3010108@yahoo.no>

Michael Selik wrote:

> It suddenly occurred to me that if Microsoft announced it's
> Ubuntu-in-Windows feature today, no one would believe it.

My feeling too, but this was announced 30 March.
In the video in this link:
  http://www.cnx-software.com/2016/03/31/microsoft-brings-bash-on-ubuntu-on-windows-10/

they say Python inside Ubuntu-in-Windows works! Ref. time 03:03.

-- 
--gv


From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr  1 09:15:41 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 16:15:41 +0300
Subject: Strange range
Message-ID: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>


This seems sane:

    >>> it = iter(range(10))
    >>> for i in it:
    ...   if i >= 3:
    ...     break
    ...
    >>> list(it)
    [4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]

As does this:

    >>> it = iter(list(range(10)))
    >>> for i in it:
    ...   if i >= 3:
    ...     break
    ...
    >>> list(it)
    [4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]

This not so much:

    >>> it = range(10)
    >>> for i in it:
    ...   if i >= 3:
    ...      break
    ...
    >>> list(it)
    [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]

Note to self: range(10) is an iterator factory, not an iterator.


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 09:24:49 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 00:24:49 +1100
Subject: Strange range
In-Reply-To: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp0a-wa=sZ0eJbcfYdNJaw=0kSrMXu5msGxNTjguoLqFw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 12:15 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Note to self: range(10) is an iterator factory, not an iterator.

It is an iterable. It is not a factory, as that implies that you call
it. It is an object which, when you ask it for an iterator, gives you
an iterator. That's called an iterable.

ChrisA


From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr  1 09:26:09 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 00:26:09 +1100
Subject: Strange range
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 12:15 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> 
> This seems sane:
[...] 
> This not so much:
> 
>     >>> it = range(10)
>     >>> for i in it:
>     ...   if i >= 3:
>     ...      break
>     ...
>     >>> list(it)
>     [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
> 
> Note to self: range(10) is an iterator factory, not an iterator.

Incorrect. range is a lazy sequence.

The only difference between [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9] and range(10) is
that the list [0, ..., 9] is calculated eagerly, ahead of time, while
range(10) only generates the values on demand. You can think of range as
equivalent to something close to this:


class Range(object):
    def __init__(self, start, end, step=1):
        self.start = start
        self.end = end
        self.step = step

    def __getitem__(self, index):
        value = self.start + (index-1)*self.step
        if value < self.end:
            return value
        raise IndexError

    def __iter__(self):
        try:
            index = 0
            while True:
                yield self[index]
                index += 1
        except IndexError:
            return



except with more error checking, better bounds checking, support for the
`in` operator, etc.



-- 
Steven



From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr  1 10:12:49 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 17:12:49 +0300
Subject: Strange range
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87twjlju3i.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:

> On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 12:15 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> Note to self: range(10) is an iterator factory, not an iterator.
>
> Incorrect. range is a lazy sequence.

Incorrect. You and I agree.

> You can think of range as equivalent to something close to this:
>
> class Range(object):
>     def __init__(self, start, end, step=1):
>         self.start = start
>         self.end = end
>         self.step = step
>
>     def __getitem__(self, index):
>         value = self.start + (index-1)*self.step
>         if value < self.end:
>             return value
>         raise IndexError
>
>     def __iter__(self):
>         try:
>             index = 0
>             while True:
>                 yield self[index]
>                 index += 1
>         except IndexError:
>             return

Yes, I realize it now. I had thought it was:

    def range(start, end=None, step=1):
        if end is None:
            start, end = 0, start
        i = start
        while step * (end - i) > 0:
            yield i
            i += step


Marko


From fabien.maussion at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 10:16:30 2016
From: fabien.maussion at gmail.com (Fabien)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 16:16:30 +0200
Subject: Strange range
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>

On 04/01/2016 03:26 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Incorrect. range is a lazy sequence.

But how does range "know" that it has to start from scratch again? As in 
this example:

it = range(10)
for i in it:
     if i >= 3:
         break
for i in it:
     # why does it start from zero again?
     print(i)


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Fri Apr  1 10:28:40 2016
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 17:28:40 +0300
Subject: Strange range
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <lf537r5o12f.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Fabien writes:

> On 04/01/2016 03:26 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> Incorrect. range is a lazy sequence.
>
> But how does range "know" that it has to start from scratch again? As
> in this example:
>
> it = range(10)
> for i in it:
>     if i >= 3:
>         break
> for i in it:
>     # why does it start from zero again?
>     print(i)

The loops are effectively iterating over iter(it) each time. Since "it"
is not already an iterator, iter constructs a new one based on "it".

Try it = iter(range(10)) to see it not start over.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 10:31:20 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 01:31:20 +1100
Subject: Strange range
In-Reply-To: <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrGyJ6rMYNDmuM4jT3JxwFq4t30+m8qzzr55L4=Jz502g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 1:16 AM, Fabien <fabien.maussion at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 04/01/2016 03:26 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>> Incorrect. range is a lazy sequence.
>
>
> But how does range "know" that it has to start from scratch again? As in
> this example:
>
> it = range(10)
> for i in it:
>     if i >= 3:
>         break
> for i in it:
>     # why does it start from zero again?
>     print(i)

It's not an iterator. It's an iterable. So every time you call iter()
on it - which is done implicitly by the starting of the 'for' loop -
you get a completely new iterator which will step through the whole
range object.

*A range object is not an iterator.*

ChrisA


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Fri Apr  1 10:31:59 2016
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 14:31:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: The next major Python version will be Python 8
References: <eqrLy.328362$fy.94010@fx45.am4>
Message-ID: <ndm0ov$ra$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2016-04-01, alister <alister.ware at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 11:13:43 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us>
>> wrote:
>>> On 03/31/2016 05:02 PM, Roel Schroeven wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Victor Stinner schreef op 2016-03-31 23:40:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Python 3 becomes more and more popular and is close to a dangerous
>>>>> point where it can become popular that Python 2. The PSF decided that
>>>>> it's time to elaborate a new secret plan to ensure that Python users
>>>>> suffer again with a new major release breaking all their legacy code.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "2016-03-31 23:40"
>>>> You're 20 minutes early :)
>>>
>>>
>>> No, that's a naive datetime.  You need to travel to Victor's location
>>> to figure out what that is there.
>>>
>>> I sure hope Python 8 doesn't have that problem!
>> 
>> Now's the time to get in with the ideas. My proposal is that Python 8,
>> in keeping with its new opinionated style, will require everyone to
>> follow a single timezone: Europe/Amsterdam.
>
> Not bad but it would have to be Zulu (GMT)

Nope, my vote is for TAI.  It's even more opinionated.  That whole
making the time agree with the changing rotation of the Earth thing is
just too wishy-washy.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! ... I don't like FRANK
                                  at               SINATRA or his CHILDREN.
                              gmail.com            


From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr  1 10:32:35 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 17:32:35 +0300
Subject: Strange range
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <87pou9jt6k.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Fabien <fabien.maussion at gmail.com>:

> On 04/01/2016 03:26 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> Incorrect. range is a lazy sequence.
>
> But how does range "know" that it has to start from scratch again?

The "for .. in" statement invokes the __iter__() method of the iterable
object to get an iterator (maybe via the builtin iter() function).

Iterators have an __iter__() method as well which returns the iterator
itself.

Thus,

   >>> it = iter(range(10))
   >>> it is iter(it)
   True


Marko


From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr  1 10:34:36 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 17:34:36 +0300
Subject: Strange range
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> *A range object is not an iterator.*

We now have learned as much.

However, doesn't that extra level of indirection seem like an odd
choice?


Marko


From random832 at fastmail.com  Fri Apr  1 10:39:45 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 10:39:45 -0400
Subject: Strange range
In-Reply-To: <87twjlju3i.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87twjlju3i.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <1459521585.2603170.565810994.3096ECD3@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016, at 10:12, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Yes, I realize it now. I had thought it was:
> 
>     def range(start, end=None, step=1):
>         if end is None:
>             start, end = 0, start
>         i = start
>         while step * (end - i) > 0:
>             yield i
>             i += step

You know the other funny thing? Even people who understand this about
Python 3 ranges, many assume that python 2 xrange was more similar to
your latter example (possibly caused by the fact that python 2 had other
things such as dict.iteritems which _were_ mere iterators)


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 10:41:12 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 07:41:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Suggestion: make sequence and map interfaces more similar
In-Reply-To: <mailman.305.1459499295.28225.python-list@python.org>
References: <CABbU2U_DsSC=6d0HOwgGnzQZ0=r6U2sf_zOJP0U_w7_i0RrOKQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.176.1459309120.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fb677f$0$11121$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <lf5twjoo2w8.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <56fba7d3$0$1616$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <lf5h9fouumu.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <56fbc518$0$1593$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.203.1459343574.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fbf73d$0$1591$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.222.1459364926.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fc8e09$0$1600$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.240.1459410739.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <56fcfdc6$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <56FD086F.2090301@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmqTaZzE6+P66K7B5LFEo7bWBHhJrOEpWrJUPf7QWVSMSA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56FD2158.2050406@rece.vub.ac.be> <ndj813$5g0$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <1459430873.2282305.564680498.6FEA3042@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <ndjb90$15e$1@ger.gmane.org> <56FE2A5B.8000804@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.305.1459499295.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2c7493a-039b-4142-aca4-749c4ec95e3c@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 1:58:29 PM UTC+5:30, Tim Golden wrote:
> 
> For the latter, I take the view that I know where the delete key is (or
> the "ignore thread" button or whatever) and I just skip the thread when
> it shows up.

<snip>

> Feel free to contact the list owner [python list-owner] if
> you think there's a real contravention of the list etiquette but I'm
> personally not inclined to jump too heavily on rambling discussions or
> wild-eyed ideas as such.

I thought sanity was frowned upon out here <April-1-wink>


From random832 at fastmail.com  Fri Apr  1 10:42:09 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 10:42:09 -0400
Subject: Strange range
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmp0a-wa=sZ0eJbcfYdNJaw=0kSrMXu5msGxNTjguoLqFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmp0a-wa=sZ0eJbcfYdNJaw=0kSrMXu5msGxNTjguoLqFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1459521729.2604028.565815842.7D7557F9@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016, at 09:24, Chris Angelico wrote:
> It is an iterable. It is not a factory, as that implies that you call
> it.

I do have an objection to this statement. It's perfectly reasonable to
describe the factory pattern as applying to objects on which you call a
method to return the new object you are interested in. In this sense,
all collections are iterator factories.


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Fri Apr  1 10:44:42 2016
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 17:44:42 +0300
Subject: Strange range
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <lf5y48xmlr9.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Marko Rauhamaa writes:
> Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> *A range object is not an iterator.*
>
> We now have learned as much.
>
> However, doesn't that extra level of indirection seem like an odd
> choice?

I think it's brilliant. The range object behaves like a tuple containing
the numbers in the range, one can index it, slice it, zip it, for it,
like it, without it taking up the space or getting consumed in the
process.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 10:45:00 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 01:45:00 +1100
Subject: Strange range
In-Reply-To: <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoWM5PNjvd5n9srY4yPim6mgUvjr8VcuO1zG0MSdPL60w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 1:34 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
>
>> *A range object is not an iterator.*
>
> We now have learned as much.
>
> However, doesn't that extra level of indirection seem like an odd
> choice?

No; a range object is an entity in itself. You can test if something's
within the range:

>>> 5 in range(2,10)
True
>>> 5 in range(2,10,2)
False

You can ask how many numbers are in the range:

>>> len(range(2,10,2))
4

You can even ask what position a number would be in, if you index
through the range:

>>> range(3,100,3).index(57)
18

Iterators can't do any of this, except the 'in' check, which is
destructive and O(N).

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 10:50:06 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 01:50:06 +1100
Subject: Strange range
In-Reply-To: <1459521729.2604028.565815842.7D7557F9@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmp0a-wa=sZ0eJbcfYdNJaw=0kSrMXu5msGxNTjguoLqFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459521729.2604028.565815842.7D7557F9@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpv2fp0sXBmo5hkn+91aS1_tN_4axnMg28v+nV4bx2JdQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 1:42 AM, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2016, at 09:24, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> It is an iterable. It is not a factory, as that implies that you call
>> it.
>
> I do have an objection to this statement. It's perfectly reasonable to
> describe the factory pattern as applying to objects on which you call a
> method to return the new object you are interested in. In this sense,
> all collections are iterator factories.

Hmm. I suppose that would be reasonable, if you expect to call
range_object.__iter__() - but you shouldn't. You should call
iter(range_object), which, to my mind, means that *iter* is an
iterator factory.

Anyway, the word "iterable" accurately sums up the state: it's a thing
you can iterate over.

ChrisA


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 10:52:27 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 08:52:27 -0600
Subject: Strange range
In-Reply-To: <1459521729.2604028.565815842.7D7557F9@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmp0a-wa=sZ0eJbcfYdNJaw=0kSrMXu5msGxNTjguoLqFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459521729.2604028.565815842.7D7557F9@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmFS0OQ-dD_CYisMmu4whi5Z-zkdaNeOuoaCXxo8HdhZA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 8:42 AM, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2016, at 09:24, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> It is an iterable. It is not a factory, as that implies that you call
>> it.
>
> I do have an objection to this statement. It's perfectly reasonable to
> describe the factory pattern as applying to objects on which you call a
> method to return the new object you are interested in. In this sense,
> all collections are iterator factories.

I think the problem with that is that it implies something about the
purpose of the object. Usually when we talk about the factory pattern,
we're talking about an object that creates instances of something and
does nothing else. So in that sense it's misleading to refer to dict
or list or even range objects as "iterator factories", because they
also do a lot of other things that are equally if not more important.


From random832 at fastmail.com  Fri Apr  1 11:09:54 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 11:09:54 -0400
Subject: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
Message-ID: <1459523394.2611014.565840994.593DD99A@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016, at 01:24, Nagy L?szl? Zsolt wrote:
>  
>   Hello,
> 
> I need to compare sets of datetime intervals, and make set operations on
> them: intersect, union, difference etc. One element of a set would be an
> interval like this:

Two thoughts on this: Such an object is not precisely a set* of
datetimes, rather it is a set of nonintersecting intervals. It could
also be useful to have one for numbers (the datetime version could even
maybe be implemented in terms of it)

*in the python sense. in the mathematical sense, it is a set with
infinite* cardinality
**well, datetimes have a fixed resolution, so it's not _really_
infinite. Numbers don't, though.

> element ::= (start_point_in_time, end_point_in_time)
> intervalset ::= { element1, element2, .... }

Are these open intervals or closed intervals?

Also, how are you going to handle daylight savings?


From gheskett at wdtv.com  Fri Apr  1 11:36:43 2016
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (Gene Heskett)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 11:36:43 -0400
Subject: The next major Python version will be Python 8
In-Reply-To: <56FE724C.3010108@yahoo.no>
References: <CAMpsgwbWZqxE64zVWevadhivi8QDSSdVeu4XU6SL96nc2X3fxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkMjWbTbtB3fUojdbVc7bQDqTgBkpme0MWOjcBXBp1tv5w@mail.gmail.com>
 <56FE724C.3010108@yahoo.no>
Message-ID: <201604011136.43851.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Friday 01 April 2016 09:06:20 Gisle Vanem via Python-list wrote:

> Michael Selik wrote:
> > It suddenly occurred to me that if Microsoft announced it's
> > Ubuntu-in-Windows feature today, no one would believe it.
>
> My feeling too, but this was announced 30 March.
> In the video in this link:
>  
> http://www.cnx-software.com/2016/03/31/microsoft-brings-bash-on-ubuntu
>-on-windows-10/
>
> they say Python inside Ubuntu-in-Windows works! Ref. time 03:03.
>
> --
> --gv

I am inclined to think that because microsoft just "has to be first" even 
when they are last, they chose to do it a full 2 days early.

Me?  I'm from Missouri.  And I don't know of anyone in my neck of the 
woods who is running winderz-10 so I could go ask them. Shrug.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr  1 11:43:01 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 18:43:01 +0300
Subject: Strange range
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.314.1459521903.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87a8lds5bu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 1:34 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> However, doesn't that extra level of indirection seem like an odd
>> choice?
>
> No; a range object is an entity in itself. You can test if something's
> within the range:
>
>>>> 5 in range(2,10)
> True
>>>> 5 in range(2,10,2)
> False
>
> You can ask how many numbers are in the range:
>
>>>> len(range(2,10,2))
> 4
>
> You can even ask what position a number would be in, if you index
> through the range:
>
>>>> range(3,100,3).index(57)
> 18
>
> Iterators can't do any of this, except the 'in' check, which is
> destructive and O(N).

I can't think of a situation where I would have needed those things. I'm
hard-pressed to find an example of noniterator usage of range in the
standard library, for example. Here the only counterexample that caught
my eye among the first couple of hundred of occurrences:

   reversed(range(len(self)))


Marko


From wxjmfauth at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 11:44:16 2016
From: wxjmfauth at gmail.com (wxjmfauth at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 08:44:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: The next major Python version will be Python 8
In-Reply-To: <mailman.282.1459461869.28225.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.282.1459461869.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ecca9b77-d467-4fa5-8b86-145044684be3@googlegroups.com>

Le vendredi 1 avril 2016 00:04:44 UTC+2, Victor Stinner a ?crit?:
> Hi,
> 
> Python 3 becomes more and more popular and is close to a dangerous point
> where it can become popular that Python 2. The PSF decided that it's
> time to elaborate a new secret plan to ensure that Python users suffer
> again with a new major release breaking all their legacy code.
> 
> The PSF is happy to announce that the new Python release will be
> Python 8!
> 
> Why the version 8? It's just to be greater than Perl 6 and PHP 7, but
> it's also a mnemonic for PEP 8. By the way, each minor release will now
> multiply the version by 2. With Python 8 released in 2016 and one
> release every two years, we will beat Firefox 44 in 2022 (Python 64) and
> Windows 2003 in 2032 (Python 2048).
> 
> A major release requires a major change to justify a version bump: the
> new killer feature is that it's no longer possible to import a module
> which does not respect the PEP 8. It ensures that all your code is pure.
> Example:
> 
>     $ python8 -c 'import keyword'
>     Lib/keyword.py:16:1: E122 continuation line missing indentation or outdented
>     Lib/keyword.py:16:1: E265 block comment should start with '# '
>     Lib/keyword.py:50:1: E122 continuation line missing indentation or outdented
>     (...)
>     ImportError: no pep8, no glory
> 
> Good news: since *no* module of the current standard library of Python 3
> respect the PEP 8, the standard library will be simplified to one
> unique module, which is new in Python 8: pep8. The standard library will
> move to the Python Cheeseshop (PyPI), to reply to an old and popular
> request.
> 
> 
> DON'T PANIC! You are still able to import your legacy code into
> Python 8, you just have to rename all your modules to add a "_noqa" suffix
> to the filename. For example, rename utils.py to utils_noqa.py. A side
> effect is that you have to update all imports. For example, replace
> "import django" with "import django_noqa". After a study of the PSF,
> it's a best option to split again the Python community and make sure
> that all users are angry.
> 
> 
> The plan is that in 10 years, at least 50% of the 77,000 packages on the
> Python cheeseshop will be updated to get the "_noqa" tag. After 2020,
> the PSF will start to sponsor trolls to harass users of the legacy
> Python 3 to force them to migrate to Python 8.
> 
> 
> Python 8 is a work-in-progress (it's still an alpha version), the
> standard library was not removed yet. Hopefully, trying to import any
> module of the standard library fails.
> 
> Don't hesitate to propose more ideas to make Python 8 more incompatible
> with Python 3!
> 
> Note: The change is already effective in the default branch of Python:
> https://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/9aedec2dbc01
> 
> Have fun,
> Victor

Tr?s bonne id?e.
Et d'ailleurs, Python 8 arr?tera de se planter d?s que l'on
utilisera un e accent aigu, (U+00E9) ou un ? (U+00FC) comme
dans "ETH Z?rich".

Salutations.


From random832 at fastmail.com  Fri Apr  1 11:45:37 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 11:45:37 -0400
Subject: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
Message-ID: <1459525537.2619077.565849418.5270FACE@webmail.messagingengine.com>

More thoughts... sorry.

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016, at 01:24, Nagy L?szl? Zsolt wrote:
>  
>   Hello,
> 
> I need to compare sets of datetime intervals, and make set operations on
> them: intersect, union, difference etc. One element of a set would be an
> interval like this:
> 
> element ::= (start_point_in_time, end_point_in_time)
> intervalset ::= { element1, element2, .... }
> 
> Operations on elements:


Eh... I think these should be realized as operations on an intervalset
with a single element, and that elements should simply have properties
like the start, end, and if it's open or closed on each side. In
particular, any one of these could return something that is not an
element.

> element1.intersect(element2)
May return the empty set, if they do not intersect.

> element1.union(element2)
May return {element1, element 2}

> element1.minus(element2)
May return { (start1, start2), (end2, end1) }... and the open/closeness
of the element2 endpoints is reversed.


> Operations on sets:
> 
> intervalset1.intersect(intervalset2)
> intervalset1.union(intervalset2)
> intervalset1.minus(intervalset2)

These should be operators. s1 & s2, s1 | s2, s1 - s2. There's also a s1
^ s2 operation for python sets, the symmetric difference.


Wouldn't it be useful to have some operations on datetimes?

intervalset1.ltall(dt)
.... all(dt < x.start or dt == x.start and x.startopen for x in dt)
intervalset1.gtall(dt)
.... all(dt > x.end or dt == x.end and x.endopen for x in dt)
intervalset1.leall(dt)
.... all(dt <= x.start for x in intervalset1) # I _think_ this is all
you need for this
intervalset1.geall(dt)
.... all(dt >= x.end for x in intervalset1)
dt in intervalset1
... any(dt in elem for x in intervalset1)
dt in elem
... dt > elem.start and dt < elem.end or dt == elem.start and not
elem.startopen or dt == elem.end and not elem.endopen
min and max
... seems trivial, but what to return if the first/last element is open?

I'm truly shocked you didn't even mention the "in" operation.

Also, as long as we're setting up an infinite (not really but anyway)
set, why not also have the ability to have open-ended intervals that
extend to infinity. Then you could invert the set too, for free given
the minus operation: ~x == {(-inf, inf)} - x.


It occurs to me that while I mentioned numbers, in principle you could
use _any_ total-ordered type*. strings, tuples...

*nitpicker's corner: here, "type" is used to mean any set/class/category
of objects, possibly of multiple python types and possibly not
comprising the entirety of a single type, which are total-ordered with
respect to each other, including the codomain of any key projection
function suitable for sorting.


From george.trojan at noaa.gov  Fri Apr  1 11:59:09 2016
From: george.trojan at noaa.gov (George Trojan - NOAA Federal)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 15:59:09 +0000
Subject: A tool to add diagrams to sphinx docs
Message-ID: <CABie7_qXGv-+BRhwuvUE80qsx+nysv3zMjgvUH3qs4BVMXQhDg@mail.gmail.com>

What graphics editor would you recommend to create diagrams that can be
included in sphinx made documentation? In the past I used xfig, but was not
happy with font quality. My understanding is the diagrams would be saved in
a .png file and I should use an image directive in the relevant .rst file.

George


From irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl  Fri Apr  1 12:26:48 2016
From: irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 18:26:48 +0200
Subject: A tool to add diagrams to sphinx docs
In-Reply-To: <mailman.320.1459526353.28225.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.320.1459526353.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <56fea147$0$5832$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

On 1-4-2016 17:59, George Trojan - NOAA Federal wrote:
> What graphics editor would you recommend to create diagrams that can be
> included in sphinx made documentation? In the past I used xfig, but was not
> happy with font quality. My understanding is the diagrams would be saved in
> a .png file and I should use an image directive in the relevant .rst file.
> 
> George
> 

I've used .png successfully for a few images in my sphinx docs.
However if you're concerned with font quality, a better option is perhaps to use a
vector format like SVG instead. You can create them using a tool like Inkskape or
Illustrator. I haven't tried to use .svg in sphinx myself yet but I guess it simply
embeds/links it into the resulting html so a recent web browser should display them just
fine.

Irmen



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 13:25:42 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 11:25:42 -0600
Subject: [Python-ideas] Decorators for variables
In-Reply-To: <CAEze2WgR7NdR9j01aAB9_hC_hx02nSu7fS2M8ain_P+JjRBcqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEze2WgR7NdR9j01aAB9_hC_hx02nSu7fS2M8ain_P+JjRBcqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnO=+mmX9OByu0bu=Z6G8qy7nesa7=gP2JKZWkvTX2FBw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Matthias welp <boekewurm at gmail.com> wrote:
>> An example of the transformation would help here
>
> An example, that detects cycles in a graph, and doesn't do an update if
> the graph has cycles.

Thanks.

> class A(object):
>     def __init__(self, parent):
>         @prevent_cycles
>         self.parent = parent

I think you'll find that this doesn't work. Properties are members of
the class, not of instances of the class.

> This would prevent cycles from being created in this object A, and would
> make
> some highly reusable code. The same can be done for @not_none, etc, to
> prevent
> some states which may be unwanted.

But you could accomplish the same thing with "self.parent =
prevent_cycles(parent)". So I'm still not seeing how the use of the
decorator syntax eliminates repetition.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Apr  1 14:31:42 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 14:31:42 -0400
Subject: install open cv on windows 10 and python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <8b4a2755-388a-43fa-8ab3-ae416ff87950@googlegroups.com>
References: <8b4a2755-388a-43fa-8ab3-ae416ff87950@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ndmeqj$1js$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/1/2016 6:56 AM, saxri89 at gmail.com wrote:
> hello,
>
> i have windows 10 and python 3.5 and i want to use
> open cv but i think so opencv work only on python 2.7 ?

The following link has binaries for 3.4 and 3.5 as well.  I believe 
Gohlke tests his binaries, so I expect them to work.

> and i install this http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#opencv
> but not work again

I don't know what 'not work again' means here.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From saxri89 at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 15:11:11 2016
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (saxri89 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 12:11:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: install open cv on windows 10 and python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <8b4a2755-388a-43fa-8ab3-ae416ff87950@googlegroups.com>
References: <8b4a2755-388a-43fa-8ab3-ae416ff87950@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <044d7b5a-99b4-44d9-abdb-b7651c0d87b3@googlegroups.com>

?? ?????????, 1 ???????? 2016 - 1:56:52 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? sax... at gmail.com ??????:
> hello,
> 
> i have windows 10 and python 3.5 and i want to use
> open cv but i think so opencv work only on python 2.7 ?
> and i install this http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#opencv
> but not work again

i install opencv_python-3.1.0-cp35-none-win32.whl 
but if i import cv2 or import opencv
then show me no module with that name


From sjeik_appie at hotmail.com  Fri Apr  1 15:14:32 2016
From: sjeik_appie at hotmail.com (Albert-Jan Roskam)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 19:14:32 +0000
Subject: A tool to add diagrams to sphinx docs
In-Reply-To: <56fea147$0$5832$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.320.1459526353.28225.python-list@python.org>,
 <56fea147$0$5832$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <DUB123-W2A932E6A0AD9B67C7CD7F839A0@phx.gbl>



> Subject: Re: A tool to add diagrams to sphinx docs
> From: irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl
> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 18:26:48 +0200
> To: python-list at python.org
> 
> On 1-4-2016 17:59, George Trojan - NOAA Federal wrote:
> > What graphics editor would you recommend to create diagrams that can be
> > included in sphinx made documentation? In the past I used xfig, but was not
> > happy with font quality. My understanding is the diagrams would be saved in
> > a .png file and I should use an image directive in the relevant .rst file.
> > 
> > George
> > 
> 
> I've used .png successfully for a few images in my sphinx docs.
> However if you're concerned with font quality, a better option is perhaps to use a
> vector format like SVG instead. You can create them using a tool like Inkskape or
> Illustrator. I haven't tried to use .svg in sphinx myself yet but I guess it simply
> embeds/links it into the resulting html so a recent web browser should display them just
> fine.
I used .svg for dependency graphs made with snakefood. Looked good in html, though they essily get too detailed. The .rst:

.. figure:: images/my_image.svg    :width: 100% 		 	   		  

From fanjianling at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 15:22:12 2016
From: fanjianling at gmail.com (Jianling Fan)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 13:22:12 -0600
Subject: extract rar
Message-ID: <CAJ7mry+JqgQuTA782sNyZOmyupXxwvG7TqvO56pM7K-p+up2cQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

I am wondering is there any way to extract rar files by python without
WinRAR software?

I tried Archive() and patool, but seems they required the WinRAR software.

Thanks,

Regards,

Jianling


From random832 at fastmail.com  Fri Apr  1 15:29:54 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 15:29:54 -0400
Subject: extract rar
In-Reply-To: <CAJ7mry+JqgQuTA782sNyZOmyupXxwvG7TqvO56pM7K-p+up2cQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ7mry+JqgQuTA782sNyZOmyupXxwvG7TqvO56pM7K-p+up2cQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1459538994.2669387.566083386.060473AE@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016, at 15:22, Jianling Fan wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am wondering is there any way to extract rar files by python without
> WinRAR software?
> 
> I tried Archive() and patool, but seems they required the WinRAR
> software.

Rar is a proprietary format. They do distribute a free "unrar" program
for multiple platforms.


From sjeik_appie at hotmail.com  Fri Apr  1 15:37:17 2016
From: sjeik_appie at hotmail.com (Albert-Jan Roskam)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 19:37:17 +0000
Subject: extract rar
In-Reply-To: <CAJ7mry+JqgQuTA782sNyZOmyupXxwvG7TqvO56pM7K-p+up2cQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ7mry+JqgQuTA782sNyZOmyupXxwvG7TqvO56pM7K-p+up2cQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DUB123-W180BCBE581B0391A567BF0839A0@phx.gbl>



> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 13:22:12 -0600
> Subject: extract rar
> From: fanjianling at gmail.com
> To: python-list at python.org
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am wondering is there any way to extract rar files by python without
> WinRAR software?
> 
> I tried Archive() and patool, but seems they required the WinRAR software.

Perhaps 7-zip in a Python subprocess:http://superuser.com/questions/458643/unzip-rar-from-command-line-with-7-zip/464128
 		 	   		  

From python at lucidity.plus.com  Fri Apr  1 15:58:33 2016
From: python at lucidity.plus.com (Erik)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 20:58:33 +0100
Subject: Strange range
In-Reply-To: <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <56FED2E9.2080100@lucidity.plus.com>

On 01/04/16 15:34, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
>
>> *A range object is not an iterator.*
>
> We now have learned as much.
>
> However, doesn't that extra level of indirection seem like an odd
> choice?

If you write your own class which has an __iter__ method, would you expect:

   >>> o = MyClass()
   >>> i1 = iter(o)
   >>> i2 = iter(o)
   >>> list(i1)
   ['foo', 'bar', 'baz']
   >>> list(i2)
   []

?

Or, would you expect both iterators to be independent and both return 
the 'foo', 'bar', 'baz' sequence (where that is the hypothetical result 
of iterating over your object)?

If you now replace MyClass() with range(10), why would you expect the 
two iterators to be related?

E.


From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr  1 16:14:42 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 23:14:42 +0300
Subject: Strange range
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.327.1459540903.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <874mblrsr1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Erik <python at lucidity.plus.com>:

> On 01/04/16 15:34, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> *A range object is not an iterator.*
>>
>> We now have learned as much.
>>
>> However, doesn't that extra level of indirection seem like an odd
>> choice?
>
> [...]
>
> If you write your own class which has an __iter__ method, would you
> [...] expect both iterators to be independent and both return the
> 'foo', 'bar', 'baz' sequence (where that is the hypothetical result of
> iterating over your object)?
>
> If you now replace MyClass() with range(10), why would you expect the
> two iterators to be related?

I simply had thought of range() returning an iterator. I would expect an
iterator to behave like one.

There's a bit of a cognitive dissonance between iterables and iterators.
On the one hand, they behave identically in many contexts. On the other
hand, the distinction is crucial in some special cases.

(Somehow, the difference between iterables and iterators is analogous
with the difference between C's arrays and pointers.)


Marko


From rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid  Fri Apr  1 16:21:12 2016
From: rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid (Rob Gaddi)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 20:21:12 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Strange range
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.327.1459540903.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <874mblrsr1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <ndml7n$494$1@dont-email.me>

Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> Erik <python at lucidity.plus.com>:
>
>> On 01/04/16 15:34, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> *A range object is not an iterator.*
>>>
>>> We now have learned as much.
>>>
>>> However, doesn't that extra level of indirection seem like an odd
>>> choice?
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> If you write your own class which has an __iter__ method, would you
>> [...] expect both iterators to be independent and both return the
>> 'foo', 'bar', 'baz' sequence (where that is the hypothetical result of
>> iterating over your object)?
>>
>> If you now replace MyClass() with range(10), why would you expect the
>> two iterators to be related?
>
> I simply had thought of range() returning an iterator. I would expect an
> iterator to behave like one.
>
> There's a bit of a cognitive dissonance between iterables and iterators.
> On the one hand, they behave identically in many contexts. On the other
> hand, the distinction is crucial in some special cases.

You're missing a key point.  All (well-behaved) iterators are iterables,
with their __iter__ method returning themselves.

for x in y:
  ...

implies:

try:
  _it = iter(y)
  while True:
    x = next(_it)
    ...
except StopIteration:
  pass

That's true for any iterable y, including a y which is itself an
iterator.  You still call iter() on it, and get _it, the iterator over
y, which if y is an iterator is the same thing as y.

-- 
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com
Email address domain is currently out of order.  See above to fix.


From fillmore_remove at hotmail.com  Fri Apr  1 16:27:13 2016
From: fillmore_remove at hotmail.com (Fillmore)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 16:27:13 -0400
Subject: Drowning in a teacup?
Message-ID: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org>


notorious pass by reference vs pass by value biting me in the backside 
here. Proceeding in order.

I need to scan a list of strings. If one of the elements matches the 
beginning of a search keyword, that element needs to snap to the front 
of the list.
I achieved that this way:


    for i in range(len(mylist)):
         if(mylist[i].startswith(key)):
             mylist = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]

Since I need this code in multiple places, I placed it inside a function

def bringOrderStringToFront(mylist, key):

     for i in range(len(mylist)):
         if(mylist[i].startswith(key)):
             mylist = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]

and called it this way:

  if orderstring:
      bringOrderStringToFront(Tokens, orderstring)

right?
Nope, wrong! contrary to what I thought I had understood about how 
parameters are passed in Python, the function is acting on a copy(!) and 
my original list is unchanged.

I fixed it this way:

def bringOrderStringToFront(mylist, key):

     for i in range(len(mylist)):
         if(mylist[i].startswith(key)):
             mylist = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]
     return(mylist)

and:

if orderstring:
    Tokens = bringOrderStringToFront(Tokens, orderstring)

but I'm left with a sour taste of not understanding what I was doing 
wrong. Can anyone elaborate? what's the pythonista way to do it right?

Thanks



From michael.selik at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 16:31:32 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 20:31:32 +0000
Subject: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkMeWgGd+ps=pyRE90QZmwc0HuRqQs0C+my-+Dk=Xrgz1A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 1:32 AM Nagy L?szl? Zsolt <gandalf at shopzeus.com>
wrote:

> Does anyone know a library that already implements these functions?
>

What do you not like about the ones on PyPI?
https://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&term=interval&submit=search

Depending on the resolution you want, you might be able to use builtin sets
for everything.

    def interval(start, stop, precision=60):
        a = round(start.timestamp(), precision)
        b = round(stop.timestamp(), precision)
        return set(range(a, b, precision))


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 16:32:43 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 20:32:43 +0000
Subject: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <CAGgTfkMeWgGd+ps=pyRE90QZmwc0HuRqQs0C+my-+Dk=Xrgz1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
 <CAGgTfkMeWgGd+ps=pyRE90QZmwc0HuRqQs0C+my-+Dk=Xrgz1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkN6njbtU4XpHUTJF3jK3si4TQ+EVExww762AQPM5SdAOA@mail.gmail.com>

Whoops, I mixed up tasks. Here's what I meant:

    def interval(start, stop, precision=60):
        a, b = start.timestamp(), stop.timestamp()
        return set(range(a, b, precision))

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 4:31 PM Michael Selik <michael.selik at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 1:32 AM Nagy L?szl? Zsolt <gandalf at shopzeus.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know a library that already implements these functions?
>>
>
> What do you not like about the ones on PyPI?
> https://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&term=interval&submit=search
>
> Depending on the resolution you want, you might be able to use builtin
> sets for everything.
>
>     def interval(start, stop, precision=60):
>         a = round(start.timestamp(), precision)
>         b = round(stop.timestamp(), precision)
>         return set(range(a, b, precision))
>


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Apr  1 16:33:02 2016
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 21:33:02 +0100
Subject: install open cv on windows 10 and python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <044d7b5a-99b4-44d9-abdb-b7651c0d87b3@googlegroups.com>
References: <8b4a2755-388a-43fa-8ab3-ae416ff87950@googlegroups.com>
 <044d7b5a-99b4-44d9-abdb-b7651c0d87b3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <56FEDAFE.4010207@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-01 20:11, saxri89 at gmail.com wrote:
> ?? ?????????, 1 ???????? 2016 - 1:56:52 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? sax... at gmail.com ??????:
>> hello,
>>
>> i have windows 10 and python 3.5 and i want to use
>> open cv but i think so opencv work only on python 2.7 ?
>> and i install this http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#opencv
>> but not work again
>
> i install opencv_python-3.1.0-cp35-none-win32.whl
> but if i import cv2 or import opencv
> then show me no module with that name
>
"OpenCV" is the name of the project, not the name of a module.

The name of the module "cv2".


From saxri89 at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 16:38:51 2016
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (saxri89 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 13:38:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: install open cv on windows 10 and python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <8b4a2755-388a-43fa-8ab3-ae416ff87950@googlegroups.com>
References: <8b4a2755-388a-43fa-8ab3-ae416ff87950@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c9ce75fb-3dc5-4d67-bd8d-1649fe87ee3a@googlegroups.com>

?? ?????????, 1 ???????? 2016 - 1:56:52 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? sax... at gmail.com ??????:
> hello,
> 
> i have windows 10 and python 3.5 and i want to use
> open cv but i think so opencv work only on python 2.7 ?
> and i install this http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#opencv
> but not work again

show me no module name cv2

From rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid  Fri Apr  1 16:39:59 2016
From: rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid (Rob Gaddi)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 20:39:59 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Drowning in a teacup?
References: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <ndmmav$8n2$1@dont-email.me>

Fillmore wrote:

>
> notorious pass by reference vs pass by value biting me in the backside 
> here. Proceeding in order.
>
> I need to scan a list of strings. If one of the elements matches the 
> beginning of a search keyword, that element needs to snap to the front 
> of the list.
> I achieved that this way:
>
>
>     for i in range(len(mylist)):
>          if(mylist[i].startswith(key)):
>              mylist = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]
>
> Since I need this code in multiple places, I placed it inside a function
>
> def bringOrderStringToFront(mylist, key):
>
>      for i in range(len(mylist)):
>          if(mylist[i].startswith(key)):
>              mylist = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]
>
> and called it this way:
>
>   if orderstring:
>       bringOrderStringToFront(Tokens, orderstring)
>
> right?
> Nope, wrong! contrary to what I thought I had understood about how 
> parameters are passed in Python, the function is acting on a copy(!) and 
> my original list is unchanged.
>

Nope, that's not your problem.  Your problem is the line:

>              mylist = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]

Which should be read as: "Take mylist[i], all of mylist before i,
and all of mylist after i and create a new list from it. Store that
new list in a variable called mylist, overwriting the previous value."

If instead you were using the .insert and .remove methods, you'd be
manipulating the existing list instead.  But you don't want to do that,
because those methods are O(N) on the list length; manipulating the
middle of lists is slow.

That said, you've got some logic problems too; which come from the fact
that your iteration is shooting at a moving target.

How about:
  newlist = (
    [x for x in mylist if x.startswith(key)] +
    [x for x in mylist if not x.startswith(key)]
  )
  return newlist

Or if you really insist on mutating the original list (which seems less
clean to me, but you do you), then:
  newlist = blahblahblah
  mylist[:] = newlist

-- 
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com
Email address domain is currently out of order.  See above to fix.


From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr  1 16:44:57 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 23:44:57 +0300
Subject: Strange range
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.327.1459540903.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <874mblrsr1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <ndml7n$494$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <87zitdqcs6.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Rob Gaddi <rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid>:

> Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> There's a bit of a cognitive dissonance between iterables and iterators.
>> On the one hand, they behave identically in many contexts. On the other
>> hand, the distinction is crucial in some special cases.
>
> You're missing a key point.  All (well-behaved) iterators are iterables,
> with their __iter__ method returning themselves.

I don't know what I'm missing.


Marko


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Apr  1 16:45:02 2016
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 21:45:02 +0100
Subject: Drowning in a teacup?
In-Reply-To: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <56FEDDCE.5040505@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-01 21:27, Fillmore wrote:
>
> notorious pass by reference vs pass by value biting me in the backside
> here. Proceeding in order.
>
> I need to scan a list of strings. If one of the elements matches the
> beginning of a search keyword, that element needs to snap to the front
> of the list.
> I achieved that this way:
>
>
>      for i in range(len(mylist)):
>           if(mylist[i].startswith(key)):
>               mylist = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]
>
> Since I need this code in multiple places, I placed it inside a function
>
> def bringOrderStringToFront(mylist, key):
>
>       for i in range(len(mylist)):
>           if(mylist[i].startswith(key)):
>               mylist = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]
>
> and called it this way:
>
>    if orderstring:
>        bringOrderStringToFront(Tokens, orderstring)
>
> right?
> Nope, wrong! contrary to what I thought I had understood about how
> parameters are passed in Python, the function is acting on a copy(!) and
> my original list is unchanged.
>
> I fixed it this way:
>
> def bringOrderStringToFront(mylist, key):
>
>       for i in range(len(mylist)):
>           if(mylist[i].startswith(key)):
>               mylist = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]
>       return(mylist)
>
> and:
>
> if orderstring:
>      Tokens = bringOrderStringToFront(Tokens, orderstring)
>
> but I'm left with a sour taste of not understanding what I was doing
> wrong. Can anyone elaborate? what's the pythonista way to do it right?
>
Python always passes a reference to the object, so the name "mylist" in 
the function is a local name that refers to the list that you passed.

When you say "mylist = something", you're just binding that local name 
to another object (i.e., it'll now refer to that object instead).

What you want to do it mutate the list itself. You can do that by 
replacing its elements with the new list you've created:

     mylist[:] = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]



From michael.selik at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 16:46:19 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 20:46:19 +0000
Subject: Drowning in a teacup?
In-Reply-To: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkNMATb5dW4Mc-dVcXPOxGyROMg_14QRwtLoxu+ry3Gb-g@mail.gmail.com>

Give this a shot

    def snap(keyword, words):
        matches = [i for i, s in enumerate(words) if s.startswith(keyword)]
        for i in matches:
            lst.insert(0, lst.pop(i))

Your current implementation is reassigning the local variable ``mylist`` to
a new list inside the function.

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 4:30 PM Fillmore <fillmore_remove at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> notorious pass by reference vs pass by value biting me in the backside
> here. Proceeding in order.
>
> I need to scan a list of strings. If one of the elements matches the
> beginning of a search keyword, that element needs to snap to the front
> of the list.
> I achieved that this way:
>
>
>     for i in range(len(mylist)):
>          if(mylist[i].startswith(key)):
>              mylist = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]
>
> Since I need this code in multiple places, I placed it inside a function
>
> def bringOrderStringToFront(mylist, key):
>
>      for i in range(len(mylist)):
>          if(mylist[i].startswith(key)):
>              mylist = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]
>
> and called it this way:
>
>   if orderstring:
>       bringOrderStringToFront(Tokens, orderstring)
>
> right?
> Nope, wrong! contrary to what I thought I had understood about how
> parameters are passed in Python, the function is acting on a copy(!) and
> my original list is unchanged.
>
> I fixed it this way:
>
> def bringOrderStringToFront(mylist, key):
>
>      for i in range(len(mylist)):
>          if(mylist[i].startswith(key)):
>              mylist = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]
>      return(mylist)
>
> and:
>
> if orderstring:
>     Tokens = bringOrderStringToFront(Tokens, orderstring)
>
> but I'm left with a sour taste of not understanding what I was doing
> wrong. Can anyone elaborate? what's the pythonista way to do it right?
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 16:52:10 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 14:52:10 -0600
Subject: Drowning in a teacup?
In-Reply-To: <ndmmav$8n2$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ndmmav$8n2$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnrLS2XgXUA1mwyAjJJeREzXqQM2xAihT5OzDKe0=Nudw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 2:39 PM, Rob Gaddi
<rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid> wrote:
> Fillmore wrote:
>> Nope, wrong! contrary to what I thought I had understood about how
>> parameters are passed in Python, the function is acting on a copy(!) and
>> my original list is unchanged.
>>
>
> Nope, that's not your problem.  Your problem is the line:
>
>>              mylist = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]
>
> Which should be read as: "Take mylist[i], all of mylist before i,
> and all of mylist after i and create a new list from it. Store that
> new list in a variable called mylist, overwriting the previous value."
>
> If instead you were using the .insert and .remove methods, you'd be
> manipulating the existing list instead.  But you don't want to do that,
> because those methods are O(N) on the list length; manipulating the
> middle of lists is slow.

Or use slice assignment. This should work in place of the above:

    mylist[:] = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]

Still O(n), but so will be any implementation that removes something
from an arbitrary list position and inserts it at the front.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Apr  1 16:59:52 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 16:59:52 -0400
Subject: install open cv on windows 10 and python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <c9ce75fb-3dc5-4d67-bd8d-1649fe87ee3a@googlegroups.com>
References: <8b4a2755-388a-43fa-8ab3-ae416ff87950@googlegroups.com>
 <c9ce75fb-3dc5-4d67-bd8d-1649fe87ee3a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ndmngd$9pn$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/1/2016 4:38 PM, saxri89 at gmail.com wrote:
> ?? ?????????, 1 ???????? 2016 - 1:56:52 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? sax... at gmail.com ??????:
>> hello,
>>
>> i have windows 10 and python 3.5 and i want to use
>> open cv but i think so opencv work only on python 2.7 ?
>> and i install this http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#opencv
>> but not work again
>
> show me no module name cv2

Do you have other versions of python installed.  How did you install 
opencv/cv2?  If pip, what did it say? What you you see in 
python35/Lib/site-packages?

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy




From fanjianling at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 17:01:23 2016
From: fanjianling at gmail.com (Jianling Fan)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 15:01:23 -0600
Subject: extract rar
In-Reply-To: <DUB123-W180BCBE581B0391A567BF0839A0@phx.gbl>
References: <CAJ7mry+JqgQuTA782sNyZOmyupXxwvG7TqvO56pM7K-p+up2cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <DUB123-W180BCBE581B0391A567BF0839A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAJ7mryJWsF7FzwnS=mgJHTu9mLVCqUu5wgFUcPa9yBkiLNk3Xw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, but the problem is that I am not allowed to install any
software in my office PC, even free software.
Normally, I use zip files but this time I need to extract a rar file.
I don't like to go to IT guys because it takes time.
That's why I am looking for an alternative way without installing
other software.

 Thanks,

On 1 April 2016 at 13:37, Albert-Jan Roskam <sjeik_appie at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 13:22:12 -0600
>> Subject: extract rar
>> From: fanjianling at gmail.com
>> To: python-list at python.org
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I am wondering is there any way to extract rar files by python without
>> WinRAR software?
>>
>> I tried Archive() and patool, but seems they required the WinRAR software.
>
> Perhaps 7-zip in a Python subprocess:
> http://superuser.com/questions/458643/unzip-rar-from-command-line-with-7-zip/464128
>



-- 
Jianling Fan
???


From muhkader at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 17:02:16 2016
From: muhkader at gmail.com (A. ElKader)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 00:02:16 +0300
Subject: writing to command line thru python gui
Message-ID: <CABFDRLEvRtqnMFna6ej8c6WxoyMVbafYxi6jgpCqRhQ5ymaLGg@mail.gmail.com>

I posted this question, no reply :

Any advice :

http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/273573/write-to-terminal-in-tkinter-gui


From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Fri Apr  1 17:10:02 2016
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 14:10:02 -0700
Subject: Drowning in a teacup?
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnrLS2XgXUA1mwyAjJJeREzXqQM2xAihT5OzDKe0=Nudw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ndmmav$8n2$1@dont-email.me>
 <CALwzidnrLS2XgXUA1mwyAjJJeREzXqQM2xAihT5OzDKe0=Nudw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxsm_1FNoteRBy3GCLQH05C5xzPR-=q=U02QVNOPN+FLPA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 1:52 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 2:39 PM, Rob Gaddi
> <rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid> wrote:
> > Fillmore wrote:
> >> Nope, wrong! contrary to what I thought I had understood about how
> >> parameters are passed in Python, the function is acting on a copy(!) and
> >> my original list is unchanged.
> >>
> >
> > Nope, that's not your problem.  Your problem is the line:
> >
> >>              mylist = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]
> >
> > Which should be read as: "Take mylist[i], all of mylist before i,
> > and all of mylist after i and create a new list from it. Store that
> > new list in a variable called mylist, overwriting the previous value."
> >
> > If instead you were using the .insert and .remove methods, you'd be
> > manipulating the existing list instead.  But you don't want to do that,
> > because those methods are O(N) on the list length; manipulating the
> > middle of lists is slow.
>
> Or use slice assignment. This should work in place of the above:
>
>     mylist[:] = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]
>
> Still O(n), but so will be any implementation that removes something
> from an arbitrary list position and inserts it at the front.
>

The overall algorithm is O(n^2), as its doing a O(n) operation in a O(n)
loop:

def bringOrderStringToFront(mylist, key):
   for i in range(len(mylist)): # O(n)
        if(mylist[i].startswith(key)):
            mylist[:] = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:] # O(n)

You should get an overall O(n) with (untested):

def bringOrderStringToFront(mylist, key):
    starts = []
    other = []
    for item in mylist: # O(n)
        if item.startswith(key):
            starts.append(item) # amortized O(1)
        else:
            other.append(item) # amortized O(1)
    mylist[:] = starts[::-1] + other # O(n); slice assignment mutates input
list


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Apr  1 17:15:49 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 14:15:49 -0700
Subject: Drowning in a teacup?
In-Reply-To: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <56FEE505.6000603@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/01/2016 01:27 PM, Fillmore wrote:

> notorious pass by reference vs pass by value biting me in the backside
> here. Proceeding in order.

It's only notorious for folks that don't understand that Python uses 
neither.  It also doesn't help when folks don't understand how 
name-binding works.

     if orderstring:
         bringOrderStringToFront(Tokens, orderstring)

Tokens has now been passed in to bringOrderStringToFront, and it has 
been assigned the name of `mylist`.


     def bringOrderStringToFront(mylist, key):

At this point `mylist` and `Tokens` are the same object.

         for i in range(len(mylist)):
             if(mylist[i].startswith(key)):
                 mylist = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]

And now they are not, as you just assigned the name `mylist` to 
something else.

--
~Ethan~


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 17:16:50 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 15:16:50 -0600
Subject: Drowning in a teacup?
In-Reply-To: <CALvWhxsm_1FNoteRBy3GCLQH05C5xzPR-=q=U02QVNOPN+FLPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ndmmav$8n2$1@dont-email.me>
 <CALwzidnrLS2XgXUA1mwyAjJJeREzXqQM2xAihT5OzDKe0=Nudw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALvWhxsm_1FNoteRBy3GCLQH05C5xzPR-=q=U02QVNOPN+FLPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnp=uEReaQGSn6_jHhaFuCFcjbH7cVOqYqmEbBRHH1mdg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 3:10 PM, Chris Kaynor <ckaynor at zindagigames.com> wrote:
> The overall algorithm is O(n^2), as its doing a O(n) operation in a O(n)
> loop:

Depends on whether the OP expects to find only one match or
potentially multiple matches in the list. E did say "if one of the
elements matches".

If there are only ever a constant number of matches, then it's O(n) overall.


From accessnewbie at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 17:20:14 2016
From: accessnewbie at gmail.com (accessnewbie at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 14:20:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Grab metadata from images and save to file, batch mode
Message-ID: <75200b1c-eb54-4e03-a859-6c9631b9073a@googlegroups.com>

I have a directory (and sub-directories) full of images that I want to cycle through and grab certain metadata values and save those values to a single row in a cvs file. I would like to tack on the full path name to the row as a separate value.

Folder
C:\Images\Family
Brother.jpg
Sister.jpg
Mom.jpg

Keys/Values
Original Date/Time
User Name
File Name

Thus, data might look like this in a Family.csv file
2014:11:10 13:52:12; BillyBob111; Brother.jpg; C:\Images\Family\Brother.jpg
2015:10:54 11:45:34; BillyBob111; Sister.jpg; C:\Images\Family\Sister.jpg
2010:10:31 19:22:11; SallySue232; Mom.jpg; C:\Images\Family\Mom.jpg

Big time noob. Much of what I have read cites command line examples dealing with single files and no info as to how to extract specific keys and their values.
What module would some of you users recommend I use (I want it to be python as that is what I am trying to learn)

Can you give me some coding suggestions to get me goings? I haven't found any substantive scripts to use as guides.

Many thanks in advance


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Apr  1 17:22:22 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 17:22:22 -0400
Subject: Strange range
In-Reply-To: <874mblrsr1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.327.1459540903.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <874mblrsr1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <ndmoqj$2kh$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/1/2016 4:14 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> There's a bit of a cognitive dissonance between iterables and iterators.
> On the one hand, they behave identically in many contexts.

Because iterators *are* (a proper subset of) iterables  This goes back 
to pre-iterator days when for-loops worked on sequences and 
sequence-like objects.  When iterators (and generators and generator 
functions) were added and the iteration protocol added to the sequence 
protocol, 'sequence' was generalized to 'iterable'.  Replacing 
'sequence' with 'iterator' (and having an iterator not be an iterable) 
would have broken most code and made for loops less convenient to use.

> On the other hand, the distinction

between iterators and non-iterator iterables

> is crucial in some special cases.

I often call non-iterator iterables 're-iterables' (which is usually 
correct) but there is no agree-on term.  It is sort of like having 
'people' and 'men' but no word for non-men people.

> (Somehow, the difference between iterables and iterators is analogous
> with the difference between C's arrays and pointers.)

(Yes, C uses pointers to iterates through arrays, in either direction.)

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From saxri89 at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 17:37:22 2016
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (Xristos Xristoou)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 14:37:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: install open cv on windows 10 and python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <8b4a2755-388a-43fa-8ab3-ae416ff87950@googlegroups.com>
References: <8b4a2755-388a-43fa-8ab3-ae416ff87950@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d38dc2e0-df94-4d7e-b1e1-8896aba03c15@googlegroups.com>

?? ?????????, 1 ???????? 2016 - 1:56:52 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Xristos Xristoou ??????:
> hello,
> 
> i have windows 10 and python 3.5 and i want to use
> open cv but i think so opencv work only on python 2.7 ?
> and i install this http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#opencv
> but not work again

in my site-packages i have :
opencv_python-3.1.0.dist-info
cv2.cp35-win32.pyd
cv2.pyd
cv
and more opencv.dlls
yes i have and python2.7 for other version
in pip install succefully



From okuntsov.mikhail at yandex.ru  Fri Apr  1 17:48:27 2016
From: okuntsov.mikhail at yandex.ru (Michael Okuntsov)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 03:48:27 +0600
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
Message-ID: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me>

Hello,
I have a Pascal code for some hash function. I've tried to rewrite it on 
Python but it doesn't give the right value (which is 32202). Please tell 
me where is the error.

Thanks.

**********************
     Pascal program
**********************

Program K_S;
     Var
       ST: String;
     function KSUM(var S: String): String;
     var
       i, l: Integer;
       KS: Word;
       SS: String;
     begin
       KS:=65535;
       for i:=2 to Length(S) do
       begin
         KS := KS xor Ord(S[i]);
         writeln(S[i]);
         for l:=1 to 8 do
          if (KS div 2)*2<>KS then KS := (KS div 2) xor 40961
          else KS := (KS div 2);
       end;
       Str(KS, SS);
       KSUM := SS;
     end;


     Begin
      ST := ':1;1;2;';
      Writeln(KSUM(ST));
     End.


**********************
     Python program
**********************

def myhash(s):
         KS=65535
         for i in range(1,len(s)):
                 KS=KS ^ ord(s[i])
                 for j in range(1,8):
                         if (KS // 2)*2 != KS:
                                 KS=(KS // 2) ^ 40961
                         else:
                                 KS=KS // 2
         return(str(KS))
if __name__ ==  "__main__":
         st=myhash(":1;1;2;")
         print (st)


From okuntsov.mikhail at yandex.ru  Fri Apr  1 18:10:38 2016
From: okuntsov.mikhail at yandex.ru (Michael Okuntsov)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 04:10:38 +0600
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>

Nevermind. for j in range(1,8) should be for j in range(8).


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Apr  1 18:24:55 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 23:24:55 +0100
Subject: Drowning in a teacup?
In-Reply-To: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <ndmsfq$or7$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 01/04/2016 21:27, Fillmore wrote:
>
> notorious pass by reference vs pass by value biting me in the backside
> here. Proceeding in order.

It is pass by object.

By definition your following analysis is wrong.

To my knowledge this has been discussed at least twice a year for the 
past 15 years.

I would suggest that you search the archives, but that would upset 
teacher, so I won't.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Apr  1 18:32:33 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 23:32:33 +0100
Subject: Strange range
In-Reply-To: <87zitdqcs6.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.327.1459540903.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <874mblrsr1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <ndml7n$494$1@dont-email.me>
 <87zitdqcs6.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <ndmsu3$tfo$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 01/04/2016 21:44, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Rob Gaddi <rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid>:
>
>> Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>> There's a bit of a cognitive dissonance between iterables and iterators.
>>> On the one hand, they behave identically in many contexts. On the other
>>> hand, the distinction is crucial in some special cases.
>>
>> You're missing a key point.  All (well-behaved) iterators are iterables,
>> with their __iter__ method returning themselves.
>
> I don't know what I'm missing.
>
> Marko
>

Neither do we, which is why so many threads here belong, eventually, on 
comp.lang.theoretical.claptrap.

I remember when we used to have Bots here commenting on the Python 
language.  Obviously they've all given up as so much drivel is spouted, 
and/or they've gone to join the Norwegian Blue.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Apr  1 18:34:35 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 23:34:35 +0100
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ndmt1u$tfo$2@ger.gmane.org>

On 01/04/2016 23:10, Michael Okuntsov wrote:
> Nevermind. for j in range(1,8) should be for j in range(8).

Thank you for your correction, we in Python land greatly appreciate such 
things :)

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 18:44:26 2016
From: sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com (sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 15:44:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 3:10:51 PM UTC-7, Michael Okuntsov wrote:
> Nevermind. for j in range(1,8) should be for j in range(8).

I can't tell you how many times I've gotten bit in the ass with that off-by-one mistake whenever I use a range that doesn't start at zero.

I know that if I want to loop 10 times and I either want to start at zero or just don't care about the actual number, I use `for i in range(10)`.  But if I want to loop from 10 to 20, my first instinct is to write `for i in range(10, 20)`, and then I'm left figuring out why my loop isn't executing the last step.


From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr  1 18:46:10 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 09:46:10 +1100
Subject: Drowning in a teacup?
References: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <56fefa34$0$1622$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 07:27 am, Fillmore wrote:

> 
> notorious pass by reference vs pass by value biting me in the backside
> here. Proceeding in order.

Python is NEITHER pass by reference nor pass by value.

Please read this:

http://import-that.dreamwidth.org/1130.html

before asking any additional questions.


> def bringOrderStringToFront(mylist, key):
> 
>      for i in range(len(mylist)):
>          if(mylist[i].startswith(key)):
>              mylist = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]

[mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]

creates a new list. It doesn't modify the existing list.

mylist = ...

performs an assignment to the LOCAL VARIABLE mylist, setting it to the new
list just created. The original list is unchanged.

Trick: you can use slicing to write to the original list:

mylist[:] = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]


Or you can modify the list directly in place:

    for i in range(len(mylist)):
        if mylist[i].startswith(key):
            x = mylist[i]
            del mylist[i]
            mylist.insert(0, x)


which is better written as:

    for i, x in enumerate(mylist):
        if x.startswith(key):
            del mylist[i]
            mylist.insert(0, x)

or if you prefer:

    for i, x in enumerate(mylist):
        if x.startswith(key):
            mylist[:] = [x] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]



-- 
Steven



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Apr  1 18:54:56 2016
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 23:54:56 +0100
Subject: install open cv on windows 10 and python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <d38dc2e0-df94-4d7e-b1e1-8896aba03c15@googlegroups.com>
References: <8b4a2755-388a-43fa-8ab3-ae416ff87950@googlegroups.com>
 <d38dc2e0-df94-4d7e-b1e1-8896aba03c15@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <56FEFC40.8040105@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-01 22:37, Xristos Xristoou wrote:
> ?? ?????????, 1 ???????? 2016 - 1:56:52 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Xristos Xristoou ??????:
>> hello,
>>
>> i have windows 10 and python 3.5 and i want to use
>> open cv but i think so opencv work only on python 2.7 ?
>> and i install this http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#opencv
>> but not work again
>
> in my site-packages i have :
> opencv_python-3.1.0.dist-info
> cv2.cp35-win32.pyd
> cv2.pyd
> cv
> and more opencv.dlls
> yes i have and python2.7 for other version
> in pip install succefully
>
If a module has been written in Python, it will have the extension 
".py", but if it has been written in C, it will have the extension 
".pyd" (on Windows) or ".so" (on Linux).

The real test is if you can import it:

 >>> import cv2



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Apr  1 18:57:05 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 23:57:05 +0100
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 01/04/2016 23:44, sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 3:10:51 PM UTC-7, Michael Okuntsov wrote:
>> Nevermind. for j in range(1,8) should be for j in range(8).
>
> I can't tell you how many times I've gotten bit in the ass with that off-by-one mistake whenever I use a range that doesn't start at zero.
>
> I know that if I want to loop 10 times and I either want to start at zero or just don't care about the actual number, I use `for i in range(10)`.  But if I want to loop from 10 to 20, my first instinct is to write `for i in range(10, 20)`, and then I'm left figuring out why my loop isn't executing the last step.
>

"First instinct"?  "I expected"?  The Python docs might not be perfect, 
but they were certainly adequate enough to get me going 15 years ago, 
and since then they've improved.  So where is the problem, other than 
failure to RTFM?

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From vaulhausen at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 19:08:07 2016
From: vaulhausen at gmail.com (vaulhausen at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 16:08:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pow() & modulo QUESTION
Message-ID: <d1e17ce8-f660-4235-a425-61e4cbe1ea56@googlegroups.com>

Having trouble performing the pow() function with 
real numbers.

I want to also take a modulo value....

Weirdly, this works fine ;

pow(2,6000,400) = 176

However, this returns an error ;

pow(1.4142, 6000, 400)

I have tried also the math.pow() function but it doesnt
work either..... can any one give me a hand with this?


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 19:29:15 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 23:29:15 +0000
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>

Humans have always had trouble with this, in many contexts. I remember
being annoyed at folks saying the year 2000 was the first year of the new
millennium, rather than 2001. They'd forgotten the Gregorian calendar
starts from AD 1.

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016, 6:58 PM Mark Lawrence via Python-list <
python-list at python.org> wrote:

> On 01/04/2016 23:44, sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 3:10:51 PM UTC-7, Michael Okuntsov wrote:
> >> Nevermind. for j in range(1,8) should be for j in range(8).
> >
> > I can't tell you how many times I've gotten bit in the ass with that
> off-by-one mistake whenever I use a range that doesn't start at zero.
> >
> > I know that if I want to loop 10 times and I either want to start at
> zero or just don't care about the actual number, I use `for i in
> range(10)`.  But if I want to loop from 10 to 20, my first instinct is to
> write `for i in range(10, 20)`, and then I'm left figuring out why my loop
> isn't executing the last step.
> >
>
> "First instinct"?  "I expected"?  The Python docs might not be perfect,
> but they were certainly adequate enough to get me going 15 years ago,
> and since then they've improved.  So where is the problem, other than
> failure to RTFM?
>
> --
> My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
> what you can do for our language.
>
> Mark Lawrence
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From dmarv at dop.com  Fri Apr  1 19:33:12 2016
From: dmarv at dop.com (Dale Marvin)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 16:33:12 -0700
Subject: Grab metadata from images and save to file, batch mode
In-Reply-To: <75200b1c-eb54-4e03-a859-6c9631b9073a@googlegroups.com>
References: <75200b1c-eb54-4e03-a859-6c9631b9073a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <56FF0538.8020901@dop.com>

On 4/1/16 2:20 PM, accessnewbie at gmail.com wrote:
> I have a directory (and sub-directories) full of images that I want to cycle through and grab certain metadata values and save those values to a single row in a cvs file. I would like to tack on the full path name to the row as a separate value.
>
> Folder
> C:\Images\Family
> Brother.jpg
> Sister.jpg
> Mom.jpg
>
> Keys/Values
> Original Date/Time
> User Name
> File Name
>
> Thus, data might look like this in a Family.csv file
> 2014:11:10 13:52:12; BillyBob111; Brother.jpg; C:\Images\Family\Brother.jpg
> 2015:10:54 11:45:34; BillyBob111; Sister.jpg; C:\Images\Family\Sister.jpg
> 2010:10:31 19:22:11; SallySue232; Mom.jpg; C:\Images\Family\Mom.jpg
>
> Big time noob. Much of what I have read cites command line examples dealing with single files and no info as to how to extract specific keys and their values.
> What module would some of you users recommend I use (I want it to be python as that is what I am trying to learn)
>
> Can you give me some coding suggestions to get me goings? I haven't found any substantive scripts to use as guides.
>
> Many thanks in advance
>

Hi accessnewbie,

I do a fair amount of media processing and automation with python.
Look at exiftool <http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/>
There are python bindings as well <http://smarnach.github.io/pyexiftool/>.

Dale


From dmarv at dop.com  Fri Apr  1 19:52:33 2016
From: dmarv at dop.com (Dale Marvin)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 16:52:33 -0700
Subject: Introduction
In-Reply-To: <75200b1c-eb54-4e03-a859-6c9631b9073a@googlegroups.com>
References: <75200b1c-eb54-4e03-a859-6c9631b9073a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <56FF09C1.9030605@dop.com>

I just sent my first post, been using python for about 12 years to 
automate media production tasks.

Lately I've been adding testing (Thanks Ned Batchelder: 
<http://nedbatchelder.com/text/test0.html>), and documentation with 
Sphinx/rst.

Thanks

Dale Marvin
digital OutPost



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Apr  1 21:04:22 2016
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 02:04:22 +0100
Subject: pow() & modulo QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <d1e17ce8-f660-4235-a425-61e4cbe1ea56@googlegroups.com>
References: <d1e17ce8-f660-4235-a425-61e4cbe1ea56@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <56FF1A96.5010504@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-02 00:08, vaulhausen at gmail.com wrote:
> Having trouble performing the pow() function with
> real numbers.
>
> I want to also take a modulo value....
>
> Weirdly, this works fine ;
>
> pow(2,6000,400) = 176
>
> However, this returns an error ;
>
> pow(1.4142, 6000, 400)
>
> I have tried also the math.pow() function but it doesnt
> work either..... can any one give me a hand with this?
>
The 2-argument form pow(x, y) is equivalent to x ** y.

When working with integers, there's a more efficient way of calculating 
x ** y % z, so pow provides that with the 3-argument form pow(x, y, z).

Of course, you could argue that pow should allow the 3-argument for even 
with floats, but it wouldn't be any faster than x ** y % z.



From walters.justin01 at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 22:53:52 2016
From: walters.justin01 at gmail.com (justin walters)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 19:53:52 -0700
Subject: Django Channels examples
Message-ID: <CAO1D73FwR=JitM2oKEcBSihnbfF_QXRwdL48qRcMUyxZHF_Uzg@mail.gmail.com>

To all of my Web developer bros and broettes,

You all should check out this github repo:
https://github.com/andrewgodwin/channels-examples

This is not my repo or my work.

Channels is a package for Django that allows Django to work more easily
with websockets through an asgi interface. The Django devs intend to add
Channels into the core packages with the next major release.

The linked repo contains 2 examples. One is a live blogging application,
and one is a live chat application. I just typed out all of the code to
build the chat application myself and it works well. It was a fun exercise.

If you are interested in websocket applications with Python, I highly
recommend checking it out.

Let me know if this kind of thing does not belong on this list.

I'm just really excited about this.


From fillmore_remove at hotmail.com  Sat Apr  2 00:03:41 2016
From: fillmore_remove at hotmail.com (Fillmore)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 00:03:41 -0400
Subject: Drowning in a teacup?
References: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <ndngat$1qa0$1@gioia.aioe.org>

On 04/01/2016 04:27 PM, Fillmore wrote:
>
> notorious pass by reference vs pass by value biting me in the backside here. Proceeding in order.


Many thanks to all of those who replied!


From random832 at fastmail.com  Sat Apr  2 00:27:50 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 00:27:50 -0400
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016, at 19:29, Michael Selik wrote:
> Humans have always had trouble with this, in many contexts. I remember
> being annoyed at folks saying the year 2000 was the first year of the new
> millennium, rather than 2001. They'd forgotten the Gregorian calendar
> starts from AD 1.

Naturally, this means the first millennium was only 999 years long, and
all subsequent millennia were 1000 years long. (Whereas "millennium" is
defined as the set of all years of a given era for a given integer k
where y // 1000 == k. How else would you define it?)

And if you want to get technical, the gregorian calendar starts from
some year no earlier than 1582, depending on the country. The year
numbering system has little to do with the calendar type - your
assertion in fact regards the BC/AD year numbering system, which was
invented by Bede.

The astronomical year-numbering system, which does contain a year zero
(and uses negative numbers rather than a reverse-numbered "BC" era), and
is incidentally used by ISO 8601, was invented by Jacques Cassini in the
17th century.



Rule #1 of being pedantic: There's always someone more pedantic than
you, whose pedantry supports the opposite conclusion.


From wrw at mac.com  Sat Apr  2 00:54:21 2016
From: wrw at mac.com (William Ray Wing)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 00:54:21 -0400
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <AC734112-EA96-4C92-943D-E8D311EDA42A@mac.com>


> On Apr 1, 2016, at 6:57 PM, Mark Lawrence via Python-list <python-list at python.org> wrote:
> 
>> On 01/04/2016 23:44, sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 3:10:51 PM UTC-7, Michael Okuntsov wrote:
>>> Nevermind. for j in range(1,8) should be for j in range(8).
>> 
>> I can't tell you how many times I've gotten bit in the ass with that off-by-one mistake whenever I use a range that doesn't start at zero.
>> 
>> I know that if I want to loop 10 times and I either want to start at zero or just don't care about the actual number, I use `for i in range(10)`.  But if I want to loop from 10 to 20, my first instinct is to write `for i in range(10, 20)`, and then I'm left figuring out why my loop isn't executing the last step.
> 
> "First instinct"?  "I expected"?  The Python docs might not be perfect, but they were certainly adequate enough to get me going 15 years ago, and since then they've improved.  So where is the problem, other than failure to RTFM?
> 
I've always found it vaguely amusing that the server(s) for just about all the technical info at MIT reside behind http://rtfm.mit.edu

Bill

> -- 
> My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
> what you can do for our language.
> 
> Mark Lawrence
> 
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 01:36:13 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 05:36:13 +0000
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkP4pLE-8G=Dsjv3tAfG6QJKqzCPXnMw=432mPr+e2pfrQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 2, 2016, 12:28 AM Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 1, 2016, at 19:29, Michael Selik wrote:
> > Humans have always had trouble with this, in many contexts. I remember
> > being annoyed at folks saying the year 2000 was the first year of the new
> > millennium, rather than 2001. They'd forgotten the Gregorian calendar
> > starts from AD 1.
>
> Naturally, this means the first millennium was only 999 years long, and
> all subsequent millennia were 1000 years long. (Whereas "millennium" is
> defined as the set of all years of a given era for a given integer k
> where y // 1000 == k. How else would you define it?)
>
> And if you want to get technical, the gregorian calendar starts from
> some year no earlier than 1582, depending on the country. The year
> numbering system has little to do with the calendar type - your
> assertion in fact regards the BC/AD year numbering system, which was
> invented by Bede.
>
> The astronomical year-numbering system, which does contain a year zero
> (and uses negative numbers rather than a reverse-numbered "BC" era), and
> is incidentally used by ISO 8601, was invented by Jacques Cassini in the
> 17th century.
>
>
>
> Rule #1 of being pedantic: There's always someone more pedantic than
> you, whose pedantry supports the opposite conclusion.
>

I'll have to remember that one. And thanks for the facts.

>


From vito.detullio at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 01:45:31 2016
From: vito.detullio at gmail.com (Vito De Tullio)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 07:45:31 +0200
Subject: Drowning in a teacup?
References: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <ndnm9v$j07$1@ger.gmane.org>

Fillmore wrote:

> I need to scan a list of strings. If one of the elements matches the
> beginning of a search keyword, that element needs to snap to the front
> of the list.

I know this post regards the function passing, but, on you specific problem, 
can't you just ... sort the list with a custom key?

something like (new list)

    >>> sorted(['no_a', 'yes_c', 'no_b', 'yes_z', 'no_y', 'yes_x'],
    ...         key=lambda e: not e.startswith('yes'))
    ['yes_c', 'yes_z', 'yes_x', 'no_a', 'no_b', 'no_y']

or (in place)

    >>> l = ['no_a', 'yes_c', 'no_b', 'yes_z', 'no_y', 'yes_x']
    >>> l.sort(key=lambda e: not e.startswith('yes'))
    >>> l
    ['yes_c', 'yes_z', 'yes_x', 'no_a', 'no_b', 'no_y']



-- 
By ZeD



From michael.selik at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 01:51:46 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 05:51:46 +0000
Subject: Drowning in a teacup?
In-Reply-To: <ndnm9v$j07$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ndnm9v$j07$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkO4HuzoRBgrGJ3ccqcD+VB4_7O-g19NUk9FaYSBpQ2HkA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 2, 2016, 1:46 AM Vito De Tullio <vito.detullio at gmail.com> wrote:

> Fillmore wrote:
>
> > I need to scan a list of strings. If one of the elements matches the
> > beginning of a search keyword, that element needs to snap to the front
> > of the list.
>
> I know this post regards the function passing, but, on you specific
> problem,
> can't you just ... sort the list with a custom key?
>
> something like (new list)
>
>     >>> sorted(['no_a', 'yes_c', 'no_b', 'yes_z', 'no_y', 'yes_x'],
>     ...         key=lambda e: not e.startswith('yes'))
>     ['yes_c', 'yes_z', 'yes_x', 'no_a', 'no_b', 'no_y']
>
> or (in place)
>
>     >>> l = ['no_a', 'yes_c', 'no_b', 'yes_z', 'no_y', 'yes_x']
>     >>> l.sort(key=lambda e: not e.startswith('yes'))
>     >>> l
>     ['yes_c', 'yes_z', 'yes_x', 'no_a', 'no_b', 'no_y']
>

If the number of matches is small relative to the size of the list, I'd
expect the sort would be slower than most of the other suggestions.

>


From vito.detullio at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 02:26:35 2016
From: vito.detullio at gmail.com (Vito De Tullio)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 08:26:35 +0200
Subject: Drowning in a teacup?
References: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ndnm9v$j07$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkO4HuzoRBgrGJ3ccqcD+VB4_7O-g19NUk9FaYSBpQ2HkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ndnomv$mf5$1@ger.gmane.org>

Michael Selik wrote:

>> > I need to scan a list of strings. If one of the elements matches the
>> > beginning of a search keyword, that element needs to snap to the front
>> > of the list.
>>
>> I know this post regards the function passing, but, on you specific
>> problem,
>> can't you just ... sort the list with a custom key?
>
> If the number of matches is small relative to the size of the list, I'd
> expect the sort would be slower than most of the other suggestions.

umm... I take the liberty to set up a little test

    $ cat test_sort_prefix.py
    #!/usr/bin/env python3

    from sys import argv
    from timeit import timeit


    def sort_in_place(l):
        def key(e):
            return not e.startswith('yes')
        l.sort(key=key)


    def original_solution(mylist):
        for i in range(len(mylist)):
            if(mylist[i].startswith('yes')):
                mylist[:] = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]


    def main():
        if argv[1] == 'sort_in_place':
            f = sort_in_place
        elif argv[1] == 'original_solution':
            f = original_solution
        else:
            raise Exception()

        nomatches = int(argv[2])
        matches = int(argv[3])

        l = ["no_" for _ in range(nomatches)] + ["yes_" for _ in 
range(matches)]

        print(timeit("f(l)", number=100, globals={"f": f, "l": l}))

    if __name__ == '__main__':
        main()
    $ ./test_sort_prefix.py sort_in_place 1000000 3
    33.260575089996564
    $ ./test_sort_prefix.py original_solution 1000000 3
    35.93009542999789
    $


in my tests there is no sensible difference between the two solutions... and 
the number of matches is risible :)

-- 
By ZeD



From saxri89 at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 03:03:04 2016
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (Xristos Xristoou)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 00:03:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: install open cv on windows 10 and python 3.5
In-Reply-To: <8b4a2755-388a-43fa-8ab3-ae416ff87950@googlegroups.com>
References: <8b4a2755-388a-43fa-8ab3-ae416ff87950@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <be43312b-295e-459c-92bf-23ecf57af57e@googlegroups.com>

?? ?????????, 1 ???????? 2016 - 1:56:52 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Xristos Xristoou ??????:
> hello,
> 
> i have windows 10 and python 3.5 and i want to use
> open cv but i think so opencv work only on python 2.7 ?
> and i install this http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#opencv
> but not work again

yes i cant import cv2 on my idle that is my problem


From nospam at dfs.com  Sat Apr  2 03:56:12 2016
From: nospam at dfs.com (DFS)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 03:56:12 -0400
Subject: extract rar
In-Reply-To: <mailman.335.1459544492.28225.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAJ7mry+JqgQuTA782sNyZOmyupXxwvG7TqvO56pM7K-p+up2cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <DUB123-W180BCBE581B0391A567BF0839A0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.335.1459544492.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ndntov$po3$1@dont-email.me>

On 4/1/2016 5:01 PM, Jianling Fan wrote:
> Thanks, but the problem is that I am not allowed to install any
> software in my office PC, even free software.
> Normally, I use zip files but this time I need to extract a rar file.
> I don't like to go to IT guys because it takes time.
> That's why I am looking for an alternative way without installing
> other software.
>
>   Thanks,
>
> On 1 April 2016 at 13:37, Albert-Jan Roskam <sjeik_appie at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 13:22:12 -0600
>>> Subject: extract rar
>>> From: fanjianling at gmail.com
>>> To: python-list at python.org
>>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> I am wondering is there any way to extract rar files by python without
>>> WinRAR software?
>>>
>>> I tried Archive() and patool, but seems they required the WinRAR software.
>>
>> Perhaps 7-zip in a Python subprocess:
>> http://superuser.com/questions/458643/unzip-rar-from-command-line-with-7-zip/464128


I'm not experienced with Python, but I found this:

"pip install patool
import patoolib
patoolib.extract_archive("foo_bar.rar", outdir=".")
Works on Windows and linux without any other libraries needed."

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17614467/how-can-unrar-a-file-with-python




From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 04:15:36 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 19:15:36 +1100
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2016, at 19:29, Michael Selik wrote:
>> Humans have always had trouble with this, in many contexts. I remember
>> being annoyed at folks saying the year 2000 was the first year of the new
>> millennium, rather than 2001. They'd forgotten the Gregorian calendar
>> starts from AD 1.
>
> Naturally, this means the first millennium was only 999 years long, and
> all subsequent millennia were 1000 years long. (Whereas "millennium" is
> defined as the set of all years of a given era for a given integer k
> where y // 1000 == k. How else would you define it?)
>
> And if you want to get technical, the gregorian calendar starts from
> some year no earlier than 1582, depending on the country. The year
> numbering system has little to do with the calendar type - your
> assertion in fact regards the BC/AD year numbering system, which was
> invented by Bede.
>
> The astronomical year-numbering system, which does contain a year zero
> (and uses negative numbers rather than a reverse-numbered "BC" era), and
> is incidentally used by ISO 8601, was invented by Jacques Cassini in the
> 17th century.
>

Are you sure? Because I'm pretty sure these folks were already talking about BC.

http://xenohistorian.faithweb.com/holybook/quotes/YK.html

ChrisA


From vincent.vande.vyvre at telenet.be  Sat Apr  2 05:14:41 2016
From: vincent.vande.vyvre at telenet.be (Vincent Vande Vyvre)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 11:14:41 +0200
Subject: Grab metadata from images and save to file, batch mode
In-Reply-To: <75200b1c-eb54-4e03-a859-6c9631b9073a@googlegroups.com>
References: <75200b1c-eb54-4e03-a859-6c9631b9073a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <56FF8D81.1060501@telenet.be>

Le 01/04/2016 23:20, accessnewbie at gmail.com a ?crit :
> I have a directory (and sub-directories) full of images that I want to cycle through and grab certain metadata values and save those values to a single row in a cvs file. I would like to tack on the full path name to the row as a separate value.
>
> Folder
> C:\Images\Family
> Brother.jpg
> Sister.jpg
> Mom.jpg
>
> Keys/Values
> Original Date/Time
> User Name
> File Name
>
> Thus, data might look like this in a Family.csv file
> 2014:11:10 13:52:12; BillyBob111; Brother.jpg; C:\Images\Family\Brother.jpg
> 2015:10:54 11:45:34; BillyBob111; Sister.jpg; C:\Images\Family\Sister.jpg
> 2010:10:31 19:22:11; SallySue232; Mom.jpg; C:\Images\Family\Mom.jpg
>
> Big time noob. Much of what I have read cites command line examples dealing with single files and no info as to how to extract specific keys and their values.
> What module would some of you users recommend I use (I want it to be python as that is what I am trying to learn)
>
> Can you give me some coding suggestions to get me goings? I haven't found any substantive scripts to use as guides.
>
> Many thanks in advance


Have a look at py3exiv2:

http://python3-exiv2.readthedocs.org/en/latest/

Vincent


From steve at pearwood.info  Sat Apr  2 06:09:53 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 21:09:53 +1100
Subject: Strange range
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.327.1459540903.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <874mblrsr1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <56ff9a73$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 07:14 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> There's a bit of a cognitive dissonance between iterables and iterators.
> On the one hand, they behave identically in many contexts. On the other
> hand, the distinction is crucial in some special cases.

Iterable just means "something which can be iterated over". Anything which
you can feed directly into a for-loop:

for x in obj: ...

is by definition an iterable. The particular mechanism by which iteration is
performed is unspecified.

In Python today, there are two specific mechanisms, although in practice
only one commonly is used. The older of the two is the "Sequence Protocol",
which says that iteration is performed by repeatedly fetching an item from
the object with an incrementing index until IndexError is raised:

x = obj[0]
x = obj[1]
x = obj[2]
...


The newer, and more common, mechanism is to call iter(obj) to get an
iterator, then repeatedly call next(iterator) until it raises
StopIteration.

it = iter(obj)
x = next(it)
x = next(it)
x = next(it)
...


So what's an iterator? Any object which obeys the "Iterator Protocol". The
rules for the protocol are:

- the object must provide two methods, __iter__ and __next__;

- __iter__ must return self;

- __next__ must return the next value in the sequence, 
  or raise StopIteration.


range objects themselves do not obey the iterator protocol, which makes them
not iterators:

py> o = range(23)
py> iter(o) is o
False
py> hasattr(o, '__next__')
False


But they are *iterable* since you can call iter on a range object and get an
iterator:

py> it = iter(o)
py> iter(it) is it
True
py> hasattr(it, '__next__')
True



> (Somehow, the difference between iterables and iterators is analogous
> with the difference between C's arrays and pointers.)

I don't understand this analogy. Can you explain please?


-- 
Steven



From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Apr  2 06:31:30 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 12:31:30 +0200
Subject: Drowning in a teacup?
References: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ndnm9v$j07$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkO4HuzoRBgrGJ3ccqcD+VB4_7O-g19NUk9FaYSBpQ2HkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ndnomv$mf5$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <ndo722$rv4$1@ger.gmane.org>

Vito De Tullio wrote:

> Michael Selik wrote:
> 
>>> > I need to scan a list of strings. If one of the elements matches the
>>> > beginning of a search keyword, that element needs to snap to the front
>>> > of the list.
>>>
>>> I know this post regards the function passing, but, on you specific
>>> problem,
>>> can't you just ... sort the list with a custom key?
>>
>> If the number of matches is small relative to the size of the list, I'd
>> expect the sort would be slower than most of the other suggestions.
> 
> umm... I take the liberty to set up a little test
> 
>     $ cat test_sort_prefix.py
>     #!/usr/bin/env python3
> 
>     from sys import argv
>     from timeit import timeit
> 
> 
>     def sort_in_place(l):
>         def key(e):
>             return not e.startswith('yes')
>         l.sort(key=key)
> 
> 
>     def original_solution(mylist):
>         for i in range(len(mylist)):
>             if(mylist[i].startswith('yes')):
>                 mylist[:] = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]

original_solution() reverses the order of the matches while sort_in_place() 
doesn't. If the order is not relevant I'd try something like

def exchange(items):
    pos = 0
    for index, item in enumerate(items):
        if item.startswith("yes"):
            items[pos], items[index] = item, items[pos]
            pos += 1

>     def main():
>         if argv[1] == 'sort_in_place':
>             f = sort_in_place
>         elif argv[1] == 'original_solution':
>             f = original_solution
>         else:
>             raise Exception()
> 
>         nomatches = int(argv[2])
>         matches = int(argv[3])
> 
>         l = ["no_" for _ in range(nomatches)] + ["yes_" for _ in
> range(matches)]

Python's timsort knows how to deal with (partially) sorted lists. I suggest 
that you add

random.seed(42) # same list for all script invocations
random.shuffle(l)

here to spread the matches somewhat over the list.

>         print(timeit("f(l)", number=100, globals={"f": f, "l": l}))

Remember that f(l) modifies l, so all but the first invocation will see a 
list where all matches are at the beginning. In other words: in 99 out of 
100 runs the list is already sorted.

While adding the overhead of copying the list I would expect the results of

timeit("f(l[:])", ...)

to be more realistic.

>     if __name__ == '__main__':
>         main()
>     $ ./test_sort_prefix.py sort_in_place 1000000 3
>     33.260575089996564
>     $ ./test_sort_prefix.py original_solution 1000000 3
>     35.93009542999789
>     $
> 
> 
> in my tests there is no sensible difference between the two solutions...
> and the number of matches is risible :)

Indeed, as the number of matches rises your sort() approach will likely fare 
better.

Your conclusions may be correct, but the benchmark to support them is 
flawed.



From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Apr  2 06:48:20 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 13:48:20 +0300
Subject: Strange range
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.327.1459540903.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <874mblrsr1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ff9a73$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87oa9sqoaz.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:

> On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 07:14 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> (Somehow, the difference between iterables and iterators is analogous
>> with the difference between C's arrays and pointers.)
>
> I don't understand this analogy. Can you explain please?

In numerous contexts,

   T a[N]

and

   T *a

are interchangeable. In fact, C has no rvalue notation for an array. For
any other type, this works:

   T a, b;
   a = b;

However, if T is an array type, the compiler complains:

   error: assignment to expression with array type

This C innovation of blurring the lines between arrays and pointers is
very different of the type system of Pascal, whose arrays behave like
any other type.

C could have treated arrays like other types without any loss of
generality. Then you'd have to write:

   T a[N], *b;
   b = &a[0];

for:

   T a[N], *b;
   b = a;

Semantically, as well, C arrays are iterables, and pointers are used to
iterate over the elements of an array.

Similarly, Python could have kept iterables and iterators in their
separate corners by specifying:

 * iter(iterable) returns an iterator

 * iter(iterator) typically raises an Exception

 * the for statement requires an iterator

Then, you'd have to write:

   for i in iter([1, 2, 3]):
       ...


Not recommending anything one way or another.


Marko


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Apr  2 07:53:49 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 12:53:49 +0100
Subject: Drowning in a teacup?
In-Reply-To: <CAGgTfkO4HuzoRBgrGJ3ccqcD+VB4_7O-g19NUk9FaYSBpQ2HkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ndnm9v$j07$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkO4HuzoRBgrGJ3ccqcD+VB4_7O-g19NUk9FaYSBpQ2HkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ndobsh$19q$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 02/04/2016 06:51, Michael Selik wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 2, 2016, 1:46 AM Vito De Tullio <vito.detullio at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Fillmore wrote:
>>
>>> I need to scan a list of strings. If one of the elements matches the
>>> beginning of a search keyword, that element needs to snap to the front
>>> of the list.
>>
>> I know this post regards the function passing, but, on you specific
>> problem,
>> can't you just ... sort the list with a custom key?
>>
>> something like (new list)
>>
>>      >>> sorted(['no_a', 'yes_c', 'no_b', 'yes_z', 'no_y', 'yes_x'],
>>      ...         key=lambda e: not e.startswith('yes'))
>>      ['yes_c', 'yes_z', 'yes_x', 'no_a', 'no_b', 'no_y']
>>
>> or (in place)
>>
>>      >>> l = ['no_a', 'yes_c', 'no_b', 'yes_z', 'no_y', 'yes_x']
>>      >>> l.sort(key=lambda e: not e.startswith('yes'))
>>      >>> l
>>      ['yes_c', 'yes_z', 'yes_x', 'no_a', 'no_b', 'no_y']
>>
>
> If the number of matches is small relative to the size of the list, I'd
> expect the sort would be slower than most of the other suggestions.
>

My gut feeling about how fast something is in Python has never once been 
right in 15 years.  There is only way way to find out, measure it with 
things like https://docs.python.org/3/library/profile.html and 
https://docs.python.org/3/library/timeit.html.  IIRC Steven D'Aprano has 
a wrapper for the latter called Stopwatch.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From michael.selik at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 10:36:45 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 14:36:45 +0000
Subject: Drowning in a teacup?
In-Reply-To: <ndo722$rv4$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ndnm9v$j07$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkO4HuzoRBgrGJ3ccqcD+VB4_7O-g19NUk9FaYSBpQ2HkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ndnomv$mf5$1@ger.gmane.org> <ndo722$rv4$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkOK-pkmsEBaQohDBzi1F1wqCe8XFkxrCs7oNPaFQYdPAQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 6:32 AM Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

> Vito De Tullio wrote:
>
> > Michael Selik wrote:
> >
> >>> > I need to scan a list of strings. If one of the elements matches the
> >>> > beginning of a search keyword, that element needs to snap to the
> front
> >>> > of the list.
> >>>
> >>> I know this post regards the function passing, but, on you specific
> >>> problem,
> >>> can't you just ... sort the list with a custom key?
> >>
> >> If the number of matches is small relative to the size of the list, I'd
> >> expect the sort would be slower than most of the other suggestions.
> >
> > umm... I take the liberty to set up a little test
> >
> >     $ cat test_sort_prefix.py
> >     #!/usr/bin/env python3
> >
> >     from sys import argv
> >     from timeit import timeit
> >
> >
> >     def sort_in_place(l):
> >         def key(e):
> >             return not e.startswith('yes')
> >         l.sort(key=key)
> >
> >
> >     def original_solution(mylist):
> >         for i in range(len(mylist)):
> >             if(mylist[i].startswith('yes')):
> >                 mylist[:] = [mylist[i]] + mylist[:i] + mylist[i+1:]
>
> original_solution() reverses the order of the matches while sort_in_place()
> doesn't. If the order is not relevant I'd try something like
>
> def exchange(items):
>     pos = 0
>     for index, item in enumerate(items):
>         if item.startswith("yes"):
>             items[pos], items[index] = item, items[pos]
>             pos += 1
>
> >     def main():
> >         if argv[1] == 'sort_in_place':
> >             f = sort_in_place
> >         elif argv[1] == 'original_solution':
> >             f = original_solution
> >         else:
> >             raise Exception()
> >
> >         nomatches = int(argv[2])
> >         matches = int(argv[3])
> >
> >         l = ["no_" for _ in range(nomatches)] + ["yes_" for _ in
> > range(matches)]
>
> Python's timsort knows how to deal with (partially) sorted lists. I suggest
> that you add
>
> random.seed(42) # same list for all script invocations
> random.shuffle(l)
>
> here to spread the matches somewhat over the list.
>
> >         print(timeit("f(l)", number=100, globals={"f": f, "l": l}))
>
> Remember that f(l) modifies l, so all but the first invocation will see a
> list where all matches are at the beginning. In other words: in 99 out of
> 100 runs the list is already sorted.
>
> While adding the overhead of copying the list I would expect the results of
>
> timeit("f(l[:])", ...)
>
> to be more realistic.
>
> >     if __name__ == '__main__':
> >         main()
> >     $ ./test_sort_prefix.py sort_in_place 1000000 3
> >     33.260575089996564
> >     $ ./test_sort_prefix.py original_solution 1000000 3
> >     35.93009542999789
> >     $
> >
> >
> > in my tests there is no sensible difference between the two solutions...
> > and the number of matches is risible :)
>
> Indeed, as the number of matches rises your sort() approach will likely
> fare
> better.
>
> Your conclusions may be correct, but the benchmark to support them is
> flawed.
>
>
Option 1: scan and match, pop, insert
Scan and match is O(n)
pop is O(n) ... gotta shift everything over one after deleting
insert is O(n) on a list, better use deque.appendleft for O(1)

Option 2: map keyfunc, sort
Mapping the keyfunction is O(n)
(tim)Sorting is O(n log n) worst case, O(n) best case.

Option 1 using a deque will be O(n).
Option 2 will be O(n log n) worst case and O(n) best case.

On small datasets the constant factors matter, but then it's small, so who
cares about speed? (partially joking)


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 10:48:05 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 14:48:05 +0000
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 4:16 AM Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 1, 2016, at 19:29, Michael Selik wrote:
> >> Humans have always had trouble with this, in many contexts. I remember
> >> being annoyed at folks saying the year 2000 was the first year of the
> new
> >> millennium, rather than 2001. They'd forgotten the Gregorian calendar
> >> starts from AD 1.
> >
> > Naturally, this means the first millennium was only 999 years long, and
> > all subsequent millennia were 1000 years long. (Whereas "millennium" is
> > defined as the set of all years of a given era for a given integer k
> > where y // 1000 == k. How else would you define it?)
> >
> > And if you want to get technical, the gregorian calendar starts from
> > some year no earlier than 1582, depending on the country. The year
> > numbering system has little to do with the calendar type - your
> > assertion in fact regards the BC/AD year numbering system, which was
> > invented by Bede.
> >
> > The astronomical year-numbering system, which does contain a year zero
> > (and uses negative numbers rather than a reverse-numbered "BC" era), and
> > is incidentally used by ISO 8601, was invented by Jacques Cassini in the
> > 17th century.
> >
>
> Are you sure? Because I'm pretty sure these folks were already talking
> about BC.
>
> http://xenohistorian.faithweb.com/holybook/quotes/YK.html
>
>
If they'd only used Unicode, they could have said "?ou" in prayer and "?ousand"
for the year.

BTW, I finally know why there are all those "Ye Olde ...".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(letter)


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 10:55:25 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 01:55:25 +1100
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoxKRRAy9gUgSn6FNGE175YeaDcepj2RGWzEiczLf4mFA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 1:48 AM, Michael Selik <michael.selik at gmail.com> wrote:
> If they'd only used Unicode, they could have said "?ou" in prayer and
> "?ousand" for the year.
>
> BTW, I finally know why there are all those "Ye Olde ...".
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(letter)

Yep! And the letters (thorn and eth) survive in a very few languages
(Icelandic, notably). Fortunately, Python 3 lets you use it in
identifiers.

ChrisA


From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Apr  2 11:07:55 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 18:07:55 +0300
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> Yep! And the letters (thorn and eth) survive in a very few languages
> (Icelandic, notably). Fortunately, Python 3 lets you use it in
> identifiers.

While it is fine for Python to support Unicode to its fullest, I don't
think it's a good idea for a programmer to use non-English identifiers.

The (few) keywords are in English anyway. Imagine reading code like
this:

    for oppilas in luokka:
        if oppilas.hyl?tty():
            oppilas.ilmoita(oppilas.koetulokset)

which looks nauseating whether you are an English-speaker or
Finnish-speaker.


Marko


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Apr  2 11:11:19 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 16:11:19 +0100
Subject: tkinter Entry validation modes
Message-ID: <ndoner$94i$1@ger.gmane.org>

A typical call to create an Entry field would be:-

e = Entry(master, validate='all', ...)

Once this call has been made is it possible to change the validation 
mode at runtime?  Background, I'm knocking up an app so I can play with 
the various modes so that I can see how they work, as I'm just venturing 
into the tkinter world.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 11:36:48 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 02:36:48 +1100
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmouS18NGfRAx7aBhF4xVvtZPW-Fq4LOJfWh2ck3rpPo6g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 2:07 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
>
>> Yep! And the letters (thorn and eth) survive in a very few languages
>> (Icelandic, notably). Fortunately, Python 3 lets you use it in
>> identifiers.
>
> While it is fine for Python to support Unicode to its fullest, I don't
> think it's a good idea for a programmer to use non-English identifiers.
>
> The (few) keywords are in English anyway. Imagine reading code like
> this:
>
>     for oppilas in luokka:
>         if oppilas.hyl?tty():
>             oppilas.ilmoita(oppilas.koetulokset)
>
> which looks nauseating whether you are an English-speaker or
> Finnish-speaker.

I disagree. I've spoken with people who've used that kind of bilingual
hybrid in regular conversation. There's a channel I hang out on that
mainly speaks Turkish, but some sentences are a Turkish-English
hybrid; usually they use Turkish grammar (subject-object-verb), as
that's the native language of most of the people there.

A lot of Python's keywords are derived from English, yes, but once
they've been abbreviated some, and have slid in meaning from their
original words, they become jargon that can plausibly be imported into
other languages. Words like "lambda" aren't English, so other Roman
alphabet languages are at no disadvantage there; words like "def"
might easily acquire back-formation justifications/mnemonics in other
languages. It's only the words that truly are English terms ("while")
that are problematic, and there's only a handful of those to learn.

Of course, there's the whole standard library, which is written in
English. You could translate that without breaking everything, but
it'd be a big job.

The main reason for permitting non-English identifiers is to let
people synchronize on external naming conventions. Suppose you create
a form (web or GUI or something) and ask a human to key in half a
dozen pieces of information, and then do some arithmetic on them. In
English, we can do this kind of thing:

name = input("Object name: ")
length = int(input("Length: "))
width = int(input("Width: "))
height = int(input("Height: "))
volume = length * width * height
print("Volume of %s is: %d" % (name, volume))

Note how every piece of input or output is directly associated with a
keyword, which is used as the identifier in the code. This is
important; when you come to debug code like this (let's assume there's
a lot more of it than this), you can glance at the form, glance at the
code, and not have to maintain a mental translation table. This is why
we use identifiers in the first place - to identify things! Okay. So
far, so good. Let's translate all that into Russian. (I don't speak
Russian, so the actual translation has been done with Google
Translate. Apologies in advance if the Russian text here says
something horribly wrong.)

???????? = input("???????? ???????: ")
????? = int(input("?????: "))
?????? = int(input("??????: "))
?????? = int(input("??????: "))
????? = ????? * ?????? * ??????
print("????? %s ????? %d" % (????????, ?????))

Its a hybrid of English function names and Russian text strings and
identifiers. But if you force everyone to write their identifiers in
English, all you get is a hybrid of English function names and
identifiers and Russian text strings - no improvement at all! Or, more
likely, you'll get this:

nazvanie = input("???????? ???????: ")
dlina = int(input("?????: "))
shirina = int(input("??????: "))
vysota = int(input("??????: "))
obyem = dlina * shirina * vysota
print("????? %s ????? %d" % (nazvanie, obyem))

Is that an improvement? I don't think so. Far better to let people
write their names in any way that makes sense for their code.

ChrisA


From steve at pearwood.info  Sat Apr  2 12:06:08 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 02:06:08 +1000
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 02:07 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> I don't think it's a good idea for a programmer to use non-English
> identifiers. 


So you're saying that learning to be a fluent speaker of English is a
pre-requisite of being a programmer?


I'd rather read:

    for oppilas in luokka:
        if oppilas.hyl?tty():
            oppilas.ilmoita(oppilas.koetulokset)


than either of these:

    for cornea in excellence:
        if cornea.marooned():
            cornea.amuse(cornea.eventualities)


    for pupel in clas:
        if pupel.abandened():
            pupel.plaese(pupel.resolts)



Google translate suggests Marko's code means:

    for pupil in class:
        if pupil.abandoned():
            pupil.please(pupil.results)



-- 
Steven



From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Apr  2 12:44:22 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 19:44:22 +0300
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:

> I'd rather read:
>
>     for oppilas in luokka:
>         if oppilas.hyl?tty():
>             oppilas.ilmoita(oppilas.koetulokset)
>
> [...]
>
> Google translate suggests Marko's code means:
>
>     for pupil in class:
>         if pupil.abandoned():
>             pupil.please(pupil.results)

"Hyl?tty" in this context means "rejected."

"Ilmoita" means "inform, announce, let know."

> So you're saying that learning to be a fluent speaker of English is a
> pre-requisite of being a programmer?

No more than learning Latin is a prerequisite of being a doctor.

Nowadays software companies and communities are international. You never
know who needs to maintain your code. At work, I need to maintain code
that was created in Japan, with coworkers from all over the world. The
Japanese author had had a hard time with English, and made some
awkward naming choices, but had the common sense to use English-only
names in his code.

I also think log file timestamps should be expressed in UTC.


Marko


From PointedEars at web.de  Sat Apr  2 13:12:13 2016
From: PointedEars at web.de (Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 19:12:13 +0200
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>

Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:
>> So you're saying that learning to be a fluent speaker of English is a
>> pre-requisite of being a programmer?
> 
> No more than learning Latin is a prerequisite of being a doctor.

Full ACK.  Probably starting with the Industrial Revolution enabled by the 
improvements of the steam machine in England, English has become the /lingua 
franca/ of technology (even though the French often still disagree, 
preferring words like ? ordinateur ? and ? octet ? over ?computer? and 
?byte?, respectively?).  (With the Internet at the latest, then, it has also 
become the /lingua franca/ of science, although Latin terms are common in 
medicine.)
 
> Nowadays software companies and communities are international. You never
> know who needs to maintain your code. At work, I need to maintain code
> that was created in Japan, with coworkers from all over the world. The
> Japanese author had had a hard time with English, and made some
> awkward naming choices, but had the common sense to use English-only
> names in his code.

One will have a hard time finding a company or community, international or 
not, that does not have at least a basic knowledge of English included in 
what they require of a software developer.

____________
?  Years ago, I was helping a French colleague with her computer, and
   was surprised to read ?Mo? instead of ?MB? in the status bar of
   Windows Explorer.
-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.


From PointedEars at web.de  Sat Apr  2 13:20:38 2016
From: PointedEars at web.de (Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 19:20:38 +0200
Subject: writing to command line thru python gui
References: <mailman.336.1459544863.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <47108471.0biVFO8ft1@PointedEars.de>

A. ElKader wrote:

> I posted this question, no reply :
> 
> Any advice :
> 
> http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/273573/write-to-terminal-in-tkinter-gui

I do not think that this newsgroup/mailing list is meant as an advertisement 
board to get your questions answered on Q&A forums on the Web, or to get 
your questions answered *here* that you ask *there*.

So if you have a question, you should ask it *here*.  If you do so, you 
would be well-advised to post it using your real name.

<http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 13:28:17 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 10:28:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
Message-ID: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 2, 2016 at 10:42:27 PM UTC+5:30, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> 
> > Steven D'Aprano :
> >> So you're saying that learning to be a fluent speaker of English is a
> >> pre-requisite of being a programmer?
> > 
> > No more than learning Latin is a prerequisite of being a doctor.
> 
> Full ACK.  Probably starting with the Industrial Revolution enabled by the 
> improvements of the steam machine in England, English has become the /lingua 
> franca/ of technology (even though the French often still disagree, 
> preferring words like ? ordinateur ? and ? octet ? over ?computer? and 
> ?byte?, respectively?).  (With the Internet at the latest, then, it has also 
> become the /lingua franca/ of science, although Latin terms are common in 
> medicine.)

IMHO the cavalier usage of random alphabet-soup for identifiers
can lead to worse than just aesthetic unpleasantness:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN_homograph_attack

When python went to full unicode identifers it should have also added
pragmas for which blocks the programmer intended to use -- something like
a charset declaration of html.

This way if the programmer says "I want latin and greek"
and then A and ? get mixed up well he asked for it.
If he didn't ask then springing it on him seems unnecessary and uncalled for


From best_lay at yahoo.com  Sat Apr  2 13:47:53 2016
From: best_lay at yahoo.com (Wildman)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 12:47:53 -0500
Subject: tkinter Entry validation modes
References: <mailman.366.1459609893.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kNWdnRosL8xUmJ3KnZ2dnUU7-N3NnZ2d@giganews.com>

On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 16:11:19 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> A typical call to create an Entry field would be:-
> 
> e = Entry(master, validate='all', ...)
> 
> Once this call has been made is it possible to change the validation 
> mode at runtime?  Background, I'm knocking up an app so I can play with 
> the various modes so that I can see how they work, as I'm just venturing 
> into the tkinter world.

This is off the top of my head and I have not tested it.
Since validate is a config option this might do it:

e.config(validate='focus')

-- 
<Wildman> GNU/Linux user #557453
The cow died so I don't need your bull!


From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Apr  2 14:43:26 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 21:43:26 +0300
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87d1q7rgvl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com>:
> When python went to full unicode identifers it should have also added
> pragmas for which blocks the programmer intended to use -- something
> like a charset declaration of html.

You are being silly.


Marko


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Apr  2 14:45:33 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 14:45:33 -0400
Subject: tkinter Entry validation modes
In-Reply-To: <ndoner$94i$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <ndoner$94i$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <ndp40j$vql$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/2/2016 11:11 AM, Mark Lawrence via Python-list wrote:
> A typical call to create an Entry field would be:-
>
> e = Entry(master, validate='all', ...)
>
> Once this call has been made is it possible to change the validation
> mode at runtime?

AFAIK, every keyword-only configuration option can be changed.

e['validate'] = xyz
e.config(validate=xyz)

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Apr  2 14:59:40 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 14:59:40 -0400
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <ndp4r2$cg5$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/2/2016 11:07 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> While it is fine for Python to support Unicode to its fullest, I don't
> think it's a good idea for a programmer to use non-English identifiers.

Non-English identifiers can written, at least in romanized versions, in 
ascii.

> The (few) keywords are in English anyway. Imagine reading code like
> this:
>
>      for oppilas in luokka:
>          if oppilas.hyl?tty():
>              oppilas.ilmoita(oppilas.koetulokset)
>
> which looks nauseating whether you are an English-speaker or
> Finnish-speaker.

Your sense of nausea is different from others, so speak for yourself (as 
you did in the first sentence -- "I don't ...").  People were happily 
and routinely writing thing like the above (minus the accented char) in 
2.x.  I guess they must have kept your code out of your sight.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Apr  2 15:07:29 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 15:07:29 -0400
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <ndp59n$j81$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/2/2016 12:44 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> Nowadays software companies and communities are international.

Grade school classrooms, especially pre-high school, are not.

 > You never know who needs to maintain your code.

For one-off school assignments, nobody other than the author.

 > At work, I need to maintain code
> that was created in Japan, with coworkers from all over the world. The
> Japanese author had had a hard time with English, and made some
> awkward naming choices, but had the common sense to use English-only
> names in his code.

Could not have been worse than semi-random ascii like x3tu9.

> I also think log file timestamps should be expressed in UTC.

I agree.  Any translation to local time should be in the viewer.  I 
presume this is already true for email and news message timestamps.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From toddbyrne1046 at yahoo.com  Sat Apr  2 15:14:32 2016
From: toddbyrne1046 at yahoo.com (Pythonnoob)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 12:14:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python program
Message-ID: <e61e5980-7705-4805-bd47-42f11dc811b1@googlegroups.com>

Hello, 

I am new to Python and programming in general. However, I have gained some skills in Python. I have been working with it in order to gain some real world problem solving skills for my job. 

I have written a program in Python track the number of visits customers make to our business based upon their account numbers. Right now we are doing this via paper. We have 7 computers. Each with a different user. We do have a network and server. I know this program will run on my computer and I can enter the information and update it from my computer. I want all of our associates to have the program on their computer and be able to update it in real time. So at the end of the day, week, month, etc..... the visits can be calculated. I know that I can install Python on each of the computers, but I know this would be local to their computer. I also know I could have our IT guy install the program on the server as well. But in order for the stats to be updated by all associates in real time , would I have to build a database and then get that installed on the server ?  If so , how would some of you get this done? Besides writing the Python program, step by step what would you do and what other resources would you use to accomplish this?

I am a complete noob at this. Forgive me for not knowing all of the proper terminology. I know that there are some real world solutions that Python can ultimately offer me and our company. 

Thank you for your time and knowledge !


From ned at nedbatchelder.com  Sat Apr  2 15:26:44 2016
From: ned at nedbatchelder.com (Ned Batchelder)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 12:26:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: writing to command line thru python gui
In-Reply-To: <47108471.0biVFO8ft1@PointedEars.de>
References: <mailman.336.1459544863.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <47108471.0biVFO8ft1@PointedEars.de>
Message-ID: <80696a23-aec7-4ce0-a7fe-8d2a0140b7eb@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 2, 2016 at 1:20:52 PM UTC-4, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> A. ElKader wrote:
> 
> > I posted this question, no reply :
> > 
> > Any advice :
> > 
> > http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/273573/write-to-terminal-in-tkinter-gui
> 
> I do not think that this newsgroup/mailing list is meant as an advertisement 
> board to get your questions answered on Q&A forums on the Web, or to get 
> your questions answered *here* that you ask *there*.

Definitely ask your questions here.  We prefer to have a complete conversation
here rather than links off to other sites.

> So if you have a question, you should ask it *here*.  If you do so, you 
> would be well-advised to post it using your real name.

Don't worry about this "real name" idea, it's just one of Thomas' quirks.

--Ned.


From ned at nedbatchelder.com  Sat Apr  2 15:28:53 2016
From: ned at nedbatchelder.com (Ned Batchelder)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 12:28:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Drowning in a teacup?
In-Reply-To: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <a2445859-f1ff-42cf-88ca-4004517b6624@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 4:27:30 PM UTC-4, Fillmore wrote:
> notorious pass by reference vs pass by value biting me in the backside 
> here. Proceeding in order.

As others have pointed out, this is false dichotomy.  There are other
possibilities than pass by reference and pass by value.  Python (and
many other languages) use something called pass by object or pass by
sharing.

This talk has details of how Python's names and values work:
http://nedbatchelder.com/text/names1.html

--Ned.


From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Apr  2 15:36:03 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 22:36:03 +0300
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.372.1459624062.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <877fgfrefw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu>:

> On 4/2/2016 12:44 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>
>> Nowadays software companies and communities are international.
>
> Grade school classrooms, especially pre-high school, are not.

Parenthetically, English teachers in Finland have been happy with how
teenage boys' English grades have gone up with the advent of online
gaming.

   High school boys get more top scores in English than girls. According
   to a recent master's thesis, the most important causal factor for the
   boys' success is spending a lot of time playing computer games. An
   English language professor wants to raise awareness about the role of
   games for language skills.

   <URL: http://yle.fi/uutiset/pojat_kiilaavat_tyttojen_ohi_englannin_
   kielessa_tietokonepelien_ansiosta/5450679>


Marko


From ned at nedbatchelder.com  Sat Apr  2 15:47:01 2016
From: ned at nedbatchelder.com (Ned Batchelder)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 12:47:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Strange range
In-Reply-To: <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <1671ea2b-09ff-4745-a6e7-d2c57864cba3@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 10:34:50 AM UTC-4, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
> 
> > *A range object is not an iterator.*
> 
> We now have learned as much.
> 
> However, doesn't that extra level of indirection seem like an odd
> choice?

I agree that it is surprising (and confusing) at first.  It took me
some getting used to.

Now I think of it like this: An iterable is a thing that could be
iterated, that is, it has a sequence of things.  An iterator holds the
current status of a thing that is being iterated.  For example, the
pages of a book are an iterable (we could iterate over them), and a
bookmark is an iterator for the pages of a book: it knows where we are
in the iteration.

This analogy illuminates an important point: a single iterable can have
a number of active iterators working over it at once, just as a book can
have a number of bookmarks in it at once.

    nums = [1, 2, 3]
    for i in nums:
        for j in nums:
            print i, j

This prints all the pairs of numbers, because the iterator in the first
loop is independent of the iterator(s) in the second loop, even though
they are iterating over the same iterator (the nums list).  Without the
extra indirection of iterators over iterables, this code would get
tangled up.

--Ned.


From random832 at fastmail.com  Sat Apr  2 15:54:28 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 15:54:28 -0400
Subject: Drowning in a teacup?
In-Reply-To: <a2445859-f1ff-42cf-88ca-4004517b6624@googlegroups.com>
References: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <a2445859-f1ff-42cf-88ca-4004517b6624@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1459626868.1382635.566734322.250BAE2A@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sat, Apr 2, 2016, at 15:28, Ned Batchelder wrote:
> On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 4:27:30 PM UTC-4, Fillmore wrote:
> > notorious pass by reference vs pass by value biting me in the backside 
> > here. Proceeding in order.
> 
> As others have pointed out, this is false dichotomy.  There are other
> possibilities than pass by reference and pass by value.  Python (and
> many other languages) use something called pass by object or pass by
> sharing.

I think that this arises from a confusion as to what a "value" is in
"pass by value".

The point of it being pass by value is that there is no statement you
can execute in the function that has the effect of an assignment of the
expression that was passed in from the caller. This holds no matter what
kind of object is passed in or what mutable properties it has or does
not have.


From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Apr  2 16:44:16 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 23:44:16 +0300
Subject: Strange range
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1671ea2b-09ff-4745-a6e7-d2c57864cba3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87zitbpwpr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Ned Batchelder <ned at nedbatchelder.com>:

> This analogy illuminates an important point: a single iterable can have
> a number of active iterators working over it at once, just as a book can
> have a number of bookmarks in it at once.
>
>     nums = [1, 2, 3]
>     for i in nums:
>         for j in nums:
>             print i, j
>
> This prints all the pairs of numbers, because the iterator in the first
> loop is independent of the iterator(s) in the second loop, even though
> they are iterating over the same iterator (the nums list).  Without the
> extra indirection of iterators over iterables, this code would get
> tangled up.

I don't have a problem with a list being a "reiterable." I only was
surprised about range(), which I had thought to be a plain,
down-to-earth iterator. There's barely any other practical use for a
range, I believe.


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 17:03:13 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 07:03:13 +1000
Subject: Python program
In-Reply-To: <e61e5980-7705-4805-bd47-42f11dc811b1@googlegroups.com>
References: <e61e5980-7705-4805-bd47-42f11dc811b1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp47p0o=wiaZUO8+E1-u4G_aDeKbDz=DHGp14_1zJEArw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 5:14 AM, Pythonnoob via Python-list
<python-list at python.org> wrote:
> I have written a program in Python track the number of visits customers make to our business based upon their account numbers. Right now we are doing this via paper. We have 7 computers. Each with a different user. We do have a network and server. I know this program will run on my computer and I can enter the information and update it from my computer. I want all of our associates to have the program on their computer and be able to update it in real time. So at the end of the day, week, month, etc..... the visits can be calculated. I know that I can install Python on each of the computers, but I know this would be local to their computer. I also know I could have our IT guy install the program on the server as well. But in order for the stats to be updated by all associates in real time , would I have to build a database and then get that installed on the server ?
>

Hi! Welcome to the list. (I'd like to be able to greet you by name,
but I don't think "Noob" is a name. Are you Todd? Or perhaps I can
call you Christine, after CookingForNoobs?)

It might not be *necessary* to do it that way, but I would certainly
recommend it. These days, the easiest way to arrange these sorts of
things would be a web server that manages everything, and have your
associates point their web browsers to it. It's a little bit of work
to set up, but everyone knows how to use a web browser these days, and
they don't need to install Python.

Have you any experience with building web sites in Python? If not,
there are lots of tutorials around. Start with Python 3 and Flask, and
put together an HTML form to accept information from one of your
associates, with another function to process the responses. Use a
PostgreSQL database to store the information, and either psycopg2 or
SQLAlchemy to access that from Python.

There are other ways to do things, but this is how I'd recommend it.

That's a very VERY basic roadmap; it's meant to be enough for you to
recognize which parts you don't know yet. From there, you can
hopefully dig into the project a bit, and add some stats and stuff
like that. Should be fun!

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 17:05:29 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 07:05:29 +1000
Subject: Strange range
In-Reply-To: <87zitbpwpr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1671ea2b-09ff-4745-a6e7-d2c57864cba3@googlegroups.com>
 <87zitbpwpr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr8xGthbKQQx_gG53-29DCRz17rrtx2X+96iPSrzNrP_A@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 6:44 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> I don't have a problem with a list being a "reiterable." I only was
> surprised about range(), which I had thought to be a plain,
> down-to-earth iterator. There's barely any other practical use for a
> range, I believe.

That's Blub's Paradox right there. There are lots of other uses for
range(), but you just haven't used them.

ChrisA


From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Apr  2 17:40:22 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 00:40:22 +0300
Subject: Strange range
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1671ea2b-09ff-4745-a6e7-d2c57864cba3@googlegroups.com>
 <87zitbpwpr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.375.1459631138.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87vb3zpu49.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 6:44 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> I don't have a problem with a list being a "reiterable." I only was
>> surprised about range(), which I had thought to be a plain,
>> down-to-earth iterator. There's barely any other practical use for a
>> range, I believe.
>
> That's Blub's Paradox right there. There are lots of other uses for
> range(), but you just haven't used them.

That's why I was looking for counterexamples in the standard library
sources but couldn't really spot any (apart from a single
reversed(range())). Maybe I wasn't looking carefully enough.

As far as I can tell, range() is simply Python's way of implementing
classical integral "for" loops.


Marko


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 17:42:49 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 21:42:49 +0000
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <877fgfrefw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.372.1459624062.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <877fgfrefw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkO4k_A1B8YT4-Mr7bLqdgnFiY+9Zx_nVsgWiqdbD3nz0g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 2, 2016, 3:40 PM Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:

> Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu>:
>
> > On 4/2/2016 12:44 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> >
> >> Nowadays software companies and communities are international.
> >
> > Grade school classrooms, especially pre-high school, are not.
>
> Parenthetically, English teachers in Finland have been happy with how
> teenage boys' English grades have gone up with the advent of online
> gaming.
>
>    High school boys get more top scores in English than girls. According
>    to a recent master's thesis, the most important causal factor for the
>    boys' success is spending a lot of time playing computer games. An
>    English language professor wants to raise awareness about the role of
>    games for language skills.
>

Gaming also helps your reaction time. Normally 0.3 ms, but 0.1 ms for top
gamers. And fighter pilots.

>


From ned at nedbatchelder.com  Sat Apr  2 17:50:23 2016
From: ned at nedbatchelder.com (Ned Batchelder)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 14:50:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Strange range
In-Reply-To: <87vb3zpu49.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1671ea2b-09ff-4745-a6e7-d2c57864cba3@googlegroups.com>
 <87zitbpwpr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.375.1459631138.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87vb3zpu49.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <b616d486-eab4-48da-8dc9-9054f3f7a6c7@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 2, 2016 at 5:40:35 PM UTC-4, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
> 
> > On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 6:44 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> >> I don't have a problem with a list being a "reiterable." I only was
> >> surprised about range(), which I had thought to be a plain,
> >> down-to-earth iterator. There's barely any other practical use for a
> >> range, I believe.
> >
> > That's Blub's Paradox right there. There are lots of other uses for
> > range(), but you just haven't used them.
> 
> That's why I was looking for counterexamples in the standard library
> sources but couldn't really spot any (apart from a single
> reversed(range())). Maybe I wasn't looking carefully enough.
> 
> As far as I can tell, range() is simply Python's way of implementing
> classical integral "for" loops.

You can easily use range in my double-loop example, or a variant:

    def pairs(n):
        nums = range(n)
        for i in nums:
            for j in nums:
                yield i, j

More importantly, range can be useful as an argument to a function that
doesn't realize it's receiving a range, as in the better way to implement
pairs:

    from itertools import product

    def pairs(n):
        return product(range(n), repeat=2)

By making range an iterable like lots of other things, it's more useful
in these kinds of compositional situations.

--Ned.


From squatsquadonline at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 17:55:19 2016
From: squatsquadonline at gmail.com (Loop.IO)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 14:55:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Beginner] Hanging in the code until I press return,
 can't figure it out
Message-ID: <c3854d0c-5ae9-4326-acd1-65b9679b93c4@googlegroups.com>

Hey

So I built a keylogger using python as a test, got the code from the tutorial online, I want to improve on it to make it more automated, but the issue I'm having is it won't create the file until I press return, any clues where I'm going wrong?

If I press return it makes the batch file, otherwise it just hangs.

CODE:

import os
from os.path import join

lookfor = "iexplore.exe"
for root, dirs, files in os.walk('C:\\Program Files\\Internet Explorer'):
    print "searching", root
    if lookfor in files:
        print "found: %s" % join(root, lookfor)
	
import sys

def create():
    print("creating new file")

    name=raw_input ('C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\')+'launch2.bat'
                    

    try:
        file=open(name,'w')
        file.close()

    except:
            print("error occured")
            sys.exit(0)

create()


From thisisink01 at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 17:59:10 2016
From: thisisink01 at gmail.com (Loop.IO)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 14:59:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
Message-ID: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>

Hey 

So I built a keylogger using python as a test, got the code from the tutorial online, I want to improve on it to make it more automated, but the issue I'm having is it won't create the file until I press return, any clues where I'm going wrong? 

If I press return it makes the batch file, otherwise it just hangs. 

CODE: 

import os 
from os.path import join 

lookfor = "iexplore.exe" 
for root, dirs, files in os.walk('C:\\Program Files\\Internet Explorer'): 
    print "searching", root 
    if lookfor in files: 
        print "found: %s" % join(root, lookfor) 
         
import sys 

def create(): 
    print("creating new file") 

    name=raw_input ('C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\')+'launch2.bat' 
                    

    try: 
        file=open(name,'w') 
        file.close() 

    except: 
            print("error occured") 
            sys.exit(0) 

create() 


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 18:04:53 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 08:04:53 +1000
Subject: [Beginner] Hanging in the code until I press return, can't figure
 it out
In-Reply-To: <c3854d0c-5ae9-4326-acd1-65b9679b93c4@googlegroups.com>
References: <c3854d0c-5ae9-4326-acd1-65b9679b93c4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp9JP=nbyn8p6DvqkBLAHFg2DdK83+KGHP6y33-CK-GPw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 7:55 AM, Loop.IO <squatsquadonline at gmail.com> wrote:
> So I built a keylogger using python as a test, got the code from the tutorial online, I want to improve on it to make it more automated, but the issue I'm having is it won't create the file until I press return, any clues where I'm going wrong?
>
> If I press return it makes the batch file, otherwise it just hangs.
>
> CODE:
>
>     name=raw_input ('C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\')+'launch2.bat'
>

What's this line supposed to be doing?

ChrisA


From bc at freeuk.com  Sat Apr  2 18:08:56 2016
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 23:08:56 +0100
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>

On 02/04/2016 22:59, Loop.IO wrote:
> Hey
>
> So I built a keylogger using python as a test, got the code from the tutorial online, I want to improve on it to make it more automated, but the issue I'm having is it won't create the file until I press return, any clues where I'm going wrong?
>
> If I press return it makes the batch file, otherwise it just hangs.

>      name=raw_input ('C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\')+'launch2.bat'

You're asking for a file name to be entered. So that if ABC is pressed, 
followed by Enter, it will use:

       C:\Documents\PythonCoding\ABClaunch2.bat

Assuming that's the intention, then Enter is needed so that it knows 
when the user has completed typing the name. If not, then just use:

       name='C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\launch2.bat'

(If you want a single character name, without pressing Enter, that's 
harder to do. Someone else will have to help.)

-- 
Bartc


From ned at nedbatchelder.com  Sat Apr  2 18:16:42 2016
From: ned at nedbatchelder.com (Ned Batchelder)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 15:16:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 2, 2016 at 6:09:13 PM UTC-4, BartC wrote:
> On 02/04/2016 22:59, Loop.IO wrote:
> > Hey
> >
> > So I built a keylogger using python as a test, got the code from the tutorial online, I want to improve on it to make it more automated, but the issue I'm having is it won't create the file until I press return, any clues where I'm going wrong?
> >
> > If I press return it makes the batch file, otherwise it just hangs.
> 
> >      name=raw_input ('C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\')+'launch2.bat'
> 
> You're asking for a file name to be entered. So that if ABC is pressed, 
> followed by Enter, it will use:
> 
>        C:\Documents\PythonCoding\ABClaunch2.bat

That line of code will prompt the user:

    C:\Documents\PythonCoding\

then the user enters ABC<enter>:

    C:\Documents\PythonCoding\ABC

and raw_input returns "ABC", so name becomes "ABClaunch2.bat".

Presumably the intention here was to use the prompt as a suggestion
for a value to enter, but I can't be sure.

--Ned.


From thisisink01 at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 18:23:03 2016
From: thisisink01 at gmail.com (Loop.IO)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 15:23:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <18604420-d8ee-485a-96ef-bbda9a590201@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 2, 2016 at 11:09:13 PM UTC+1, BartC wrote:
> On 02/04/2016 22:59, Loop.IO wrote:
> > Hey
> >
> > So I built a keylogger using python as a test, got the code from the tutorial online, I want to improve on it to make it more automated, but the issue I'm having is it won't create the file until I press return, any clues where I'm going wrong?
> >
> > If I press return it makes the batch file, otherwise it just hangs.
> 
> >      name=raw_input ('C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\')+'launch2.bat'
> 
> You're asking for a file name to be entered. So that if ABC is pressed, 
> followed by Enter, it will use:
> 
>        C:\Documents\PythonCoding\ABClaunch2.bat
> 
> Assuming that's the intention, then Enter is needed so that it knows 
> when the user has completed typing the name. If not, then just use:
> 
>        name='C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\launch2.bat'
> 
> (If you want a single character name, without pressing Enter, that's 
> harder to do. Someone else will have to help.)
> 
> -- 
> Bartc

Hey Bartc

I don't quite understand what you mean?

The file is just supposed to be created, I don't want to have to press "Enter" or "Return" for it to complete the file creation

the info i followed to create the file advised I had to add the file name and extension on after like in the code


From bc at freeuk.com  Sat Apr  2 18:27:33 2016
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 23:27:33 +0100
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>

On 02/04/2016 23:16, Ned Batchelder wrote:
> On Saturday, April 2, 2016 at 6:09:13 PM UTC-4, BartC wrote:
>> On 02/04/2016 22:59, Loop.IO wrote:
>>> Hey
>>>
>>> So I built a keylogger using python as a test, got the code from the tutorial online, I want to improve on it to make it more automated, but the issue I'm having is it won't create the file until I press return, any clues where I'm going wrong?
>>>
>>> If I press return it makes the batch file, otherwise it just hangs.
>>
>>>       name=raw_input ('C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\')+'launch2.bat'
>>
>> You're asking for a file name to be entered. So that if ABC is pressed,
>> followed by Enter, it will use:
>>
>>         C:\Documents\PythonCoding\ABClaunch2.bat
>
> That line of code will prompt the user:
>
>      C:\Documents\PythonCoding\
>
> then the user enters ABC<enter>:
>
>      C:\Documents\PythonCoding\ABC
>
> and raw_input returns "ABC", so name becomes "ABClaunch2.bat".

Yes, of course. I ran the code and picked up the wrong line even though 
I printed out 'name'!

But, it does look as though that path is supposed to form part of the 
resulting filename.

-- 
Bartc


From thisisink01 at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 18:31:01 2016
From: thisisink01 at gmail.com (Loop.IO)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 15:31:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <03c7da56-c752-460f-98b1-84b7166a2cc3@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 2, 2016 at 11:27:49 PM UTC+1, BartC wrote:
> On 02/04/2016 23:16, Ned Batchelder wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 2, 2016 at 6:09:13 PM UTC-4, BartC wrote:
> >> On 02/04/2016 22:59, Loop.IO wrote:
> >>> Hey
> >>>
> >>> So I built a keylogger using python as a test, got the code from the tutorial online, I want to improve on it to make it more automated, but the issue I'm having is it won't create the file until I press return, any clues where I'm going wrong?
> >>>
> >>> If I press return it makes the batch file, otherwise it just hangs.
> >>
> >>>       name=raw_input ('C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\')+'launch2.bat'
> >>
> >> You're asking for a file name to be entered. So that if ABC is pressed,
> >> followed by Enter, it will use:
> >>
> >>         C:\Documents\PythonCoding\ABClaunch2.bat
> >
> > That line of code will prompt the user:
> >
> >      C:\Documents\PythonCoding\
> >
> > then the user enters ABC<enter>:
> >
> >      C:\Documents\PythonCoding\ABC
> >
> > and raw_input returns "ABC", so name becomes "ABClaunch2.bat".
> 
> Yes, of course. I ran the code and picked up the wrong line even though 
> I printed out 'name'!
> 
> But, it does look as though that path is supposed to form part of the 
> resulting filename.
> 
> -- 
> Bartc

Oh i see, so the code prompts for a name.. so i'm more lost than i thought, what do I need to change to make it just create the file with the chosen name Launch2.bat without the prompt?


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 18:37:32 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 22:37:32 +0000
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkN46XpjbwZHV8roFT3f-uTXd0sw7J87Np3jh9WaqTp0BQ@mail.gmail.com>

I might be overlooking something, but raw_input (Python 2) and input
(Python 3) won't return the input from sys.stdin until you type ENTER. Or
did I misunderstand the question?

On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 6:30 PM BartC <bc at freeuk.com> wrote:

> On 02/04/2016 23:16, Ned Batchelder wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 2, 2016 at 6:09:13 PM UTC-4, BartC wrote:
> >> On 02/04/2016 22:59, Loop.IO wrote:
> >>> Hey
> >>>
> >>> So I built a keylogger using python as a test, got the code from the
> tutorial online, I want to improve on it to make it more automated, but the
> issue I'm having is it won't create the file until I press return, any
> clues where I'm going wrong?
> >>>
> >>> If I press return it makes the batch file, otherwise it just hangs.
> >>
> >>>       name=raw_input ('C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\')+'launch2.bat'
> >>
> >> You're asking for a file name to be entered. So that if ABC is pressed,
> >> followed by Enter, it will use:
> >>
> >>         C:\Documents\PythonCoding\ABClaunch2.bat
> >
> > That line of code will prompt the user:
> >
> >      C:\Documents\PythonCoding\
> >
> > then the user enters ABC<enter>:
> >
> >      C:\Documents\PythonCoding\ABC
> >
> > and raw_input returns "ABC", so name becomes "ABClaunch2.bat".
>
> Yes, of course. I ran the code and picked up the wrong line even though
> I printed out 'name'!
>
> But, it does look as though that path is supposed to form part of the
> resulting filename.
>
> --
> Bartc
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From torriem at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 18:49:06 2016
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 16:49:06 -0600
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <ndmt1u$tfo$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <ndmt1u$tfo$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <57004C62.8060304@gmail.com>

Mark, your messages are showing up to the list as being from "python,"
at least on my email.  Any reason for this?


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Sat Apr  2 19:15:53 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 16:15:53 -0700
Subject: Drowning in a teacup?
In-Reply-To: <1459626868.1382635.566734322.250BAE2A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <a2445859-f1ff-42cf-88ca-4004517b6624@googlegroups.com>
 <1459626868.1382635.566734322.250BAE2A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <570052A9.8040608@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/02/2016 12:54 PM, Random832 wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 2, 2016, at 15:28, Ned Batchelder wrote:
>> On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 4:27:30 PM UTC-4, Fillmore wrote:
>>> notorious pass by reference vs pass by value biting me in the backside
>>> here. Proceeding in order.
>>
>> As others have pointed out, this is false dichotomy.  There are other
>> possibilities than pass by reference and pass by value.  Python (and
>> many other languages) use something called pass by object or pass by
>> sharing.
>
> I think that this arises from a confusion as to what a "value" is in
> "pass by value".
>
> The point of it being pass by value is that there is no statement you
> can execute in the function that has the effect of an assignment of the
> expression that was passed in from the caller. This holds no matter what
> kind of object is passed in or what mutable properties it has or does
> not have.

Also, if "pass-by-value" is being used, even mutation of the passed 
object will not show up in the caller.

--
~Ethan~



From random832 at fastmail.com  Sat Apr  2 19:19:22 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 19:19:22 -0400
Subject: Drowning in a teacup?
In-Reply-To: <570052A9.8040608@stoneleaf.us>
References: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <a2445859-f1ff-42cf-88ca-4004517b6624@googlegroups.com>
 <1459626868.1382635.566734322.250BAE2A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <570052A9.8040608@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <1459639162.1426200.566951194.6898462A@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sat, Apr 2, 2016, at 19:15, Ethan Furman wrote:
> Also, if "pass-by-value" is being used, even mutation of the passed 
> object will not show up in the caller.

I disagree. I don't think the definition of pass-by-value implies this.


From steve at pearwood.info  Sat Apr  2 19:49:16 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 09:49:16 +1000
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
Message-ID: <57005a7e$0$1589$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 03:12 am, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

> Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> 
>> Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:
>>> So you're saying that learning to be a fluent speaker of English is a
>>> pre-requisite of being a programmer?
>> 
>> No more than learning Latin is a prerequisite of being a doctor.
> 
> Full ACK.  Probably starting with the Industrial Revolution enabled by the
> improvements of the steam machine in England, English has become the
> /lingua franca/ of technology (even though the French often still
> disagree, preferring words like ? ordinateur ? and ? octet ? over
> ?computer? and ?byte?, respectively?).  (With the Internet at the latest,
> then, it has also become the /lingua franca/ of science, although Latin
> terms are common in medicine.)

And this is a BAD THING. Monoculture is harmful, and science and technology
is becoming a monoculture: Anglo-American language expressing
Anglo-American ideas, regardless of the nationality of the scientist or
engineer.

During the heyday of the scientific revolution, the sciences and mathematics
were much diverse. Depending on your field, the professional scientist
needed at least a working knowledge of German, French, English and Latin,
possibly some Greek and Russian. Likewise for engineering.

I don't think that it is a coincidence that the great scientific theories
like relativity (both of them), quantum mechanics, evolution by natural
selection and continental drift had time to mature in smaller, national
communities before diffusing out to broader international communities.

Fortunately at least some people are aware of the problem and doing
something about it:

https://blog.stackoverflow.com/2014/02/cant-we-all-be-reasonable-and-speak-english/

Unlike the rest of us, Stackoverflow have actually run the numbers: 

10% of the world's programmers are in China
1.4% of their visits come from China

so either Chinese developers are so brilliant and knowledgeable that they
have no need of Stackoverflow, or they're unable to make use of it because
they cannot participate in English-only forums.


>> Nowadays software companies and communities are international. You never
>> know who needs to maintain your code. At work, I need to maintain code
>> that was created in Japan, with coworkers from all over the world. The
>> Japanese author had had a hard time with English, and made some
>> awkward naming choices, but had the common sense to use English-only
>> names in his code.
> 
> One will have a hard time finding a company or community, international or
> not, that does not have at least a basic knowledge of English included in
> what they require of a software developer.

Particularly if one keeps a Euro-centric perspective and doesn't look to
Asia or Brazil.



-- 
Steven



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Apr  2 19:58:58 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 00:58:58 +0100
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <d2svfblmherpqkg4ffkcr3pd25im9uvtc3@4ax.com>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <d2svfblmherpqkg4ffkcr3pd25im9uvtc3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ndpmc6$vd6$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 02/04/2016 17:31, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 19:15:36 +1100, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>
> declaimed the following:
>
>> On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, Apr 1, 2016, at 19:29, Michael Selik wrote:
>>>> Humans have always had trouble with this, in many contexts. I remember
>>>> being annoyed at folks saying the year 2000 was the first year of the new
>>>> millennium, rather than 2001. They'd forgotten the Gregorian calendar
>>>> starts from AD 1.
>>>
>>> Naturally, this means the first millennium was only 999 years long, and
>>> all subsequent millennia were 1000 years long. (Whereas "millennium" is
>>> defined as the set of all years of a given era for a given integer k
>>> where y // 1000 == k. How else would you define it?)
>>>
>>> And if you want to get technical, the gregorian calendar starts from
>>> some year no earlier than 1582, depending on the country. The year
>>> numbering system has little to do with the calendar type - your
>>> assertion in fact regards the BC/AD year numbering system, which was
>>> invented by Bede.
>>>
>>> The astronomical year-numbering system, which does contain a year zero
>>> (and uses negative numbers rather than a reverse-numbered "BC" era), and
>>> is incidentally used by ISO 8601, was invented by Jacques Cassini in the
>>> 17th century.
>>>
>>
>> Are you sure? Because I'm pretty sure these folks were already talking about BC.
>
> 	Bede's BC/AD goes back to circa 700AD. It is the use of negative years
> for astronomical counting that is circa 1650AD
>>
>> http://xenohistorian.faithweb.com/holybook/quotes/YK.html
>
> 	And that I'll take as something suited for the first of April... It's
> almost on par with an old story (in Asimov's I think) on why the pyramids
> were behind schedule -- among other things, the pile of government mandated
> documentation, on clay tablets of course, was becoming larger than the
> pyramid being built; the older records (on the bottom of the stack) were
> decomposing from the pressure, etc. If I recall, they discover cuneiform as
> more condense than hieroglyphics, and then learn of papyrus/ink (but then
> have to support an entire industry of workers to transcribe the old clay
> tablets...)
>
>

Here we go again, yet another completely useless thread that is 
irrelevant to the Python programming language.  Hardly surprising that 
the bots don't bother any more.  Are any of the bots still alive?

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From dmw at yubasolutions.com  Sat Apr  2 20:05:26 2016
From: dmw at yubasolutions.com (Daniel Wilcox)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 17:05:26 -0700
Subject: crash while using PyCharm / Python3
In-Reply-To: <ncvpqo$jul$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <ncikss$tks$1@news.albasani.net> <ncvpqo$jul$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <CAGq7KhomJnAckwYUim7=xmw-TeuuarNu56bz8wdh-iN82TZv3Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Adam, from my mail client sent to python-list directly -- actually
attempting to reply to the OP in the past has generated some weirdness and
bounced messages (probably Gmail attempting to stop me from replying-all
with the OP in the TO line rather than the list.  But the behavior you
mentioned is quite odd.

Here are some message headers I was just looking at, and pasting here to
debug.

1 - Adam (OP)

Message-ID: <ncikss$tks$1 at news.albasani.net>

no references

list vars included

2 - from me
Message-ID: <CAGq7KhppQtrEe4dvj0SerYZf=_hgO7Aith-TTuHTix81Q+vnoQ at mail.gmail.com>

no references

no list vars included


3 - OP

Message-ID: <ncp8r1$ofd$1 at news.albasani.net>
References: <ncikss$tks$1 at news.albasani.net>

list vars included

4 - Dirk

Message-ID: <56f03080$0$5924$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>

no references

list vars included



5 - OP

Message-ID: <ncpccs$vf1$1 at news.albasani.net>
References: <ncikss$tks$1 at news.albasani.net> <ncp8r1$ofd$1 at news.albasani.net>

list vars included

6 - OP
Message-ID: <ncpdt2$2t3$1 at news.albasani.net>
References: <ncikss$tks$1 at news.albasani.net> <ncp8r1$ofd$1 at news.albasani.net>
 <56f03080$0$5924$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>

7 - OP
Message-ID: <ncpev8$51d$1 at news.albasani.net>
References: <ncikss$tks$1 at news.albasani.net> <ncp8r1$ofd$1 at news.albasani.net>
 <56f03080$0$5924$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>

8 - Jonathan

Message-ID: <ncpjj0$7ug$1 at dont-email.me>
References: <ncikss$tks$1 at news.albasani.net> <ncp8r1$ofd$1 at news.albasani.net>
 <56f03080$0$5924$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>
 <ncpev8$51d$1 at news.albasani.net>

9 - OP
Message-ID: <ncprqb$tl9$1 at news.albasani.net>
References: <ncikss$tks$1 at news.albasani.net> <ncp8r1$ofd$1 at news.albasani.net>
 <56f03080$0$5924$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl> <ncpev8$51d$1 at news.albasani.net>
 <ncpjj0$7ug$1 at dont-email.me>

10 - OP
Message-ID: <ncq42h$b8v$1 at news.albasani.net>
References: <ncikss$tks$1 at news.albasani.net> <ncp8r1$ofd$1 at news.albasani.net>
 <56f03080$0$5924$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl> <ncpev8$51d$1 at news.albasani.net>
 <ncpjj0$7ug$1 at dont-email.me> <ncprqb$tl9$1 at news.albasani.net>

... my next reply

In-Reply-To: <ncrg2v$jo$2 at dont-email.me>
References: <ncikss$tks$1 at news.albasani.net>
	<ncp8r1$ofd$1 at news.albasani.net>
	<56f03080$0$5924$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>
	<ncpev8$51d$1 at news.albasani.net>
	<ncpjj0$7ug$1 at dont-email.me>
	<ncprqb$tl9$1 at news.albasani.net>
	<ncq42h$b8v$1 at news.albasani.net>
	<ncqc7j$na1$1 at dont-email.me>
	<ncqsui$r9q$1 at news.albasani.net>
	<ncrg2v$jo$2 at dont-email.me>

and Big Bad Bob by far had the funniest headers (right after my last msg)

References: <ncikss$tks$1 at news.albasani.net> <ncp8r1$ofd$1 at news.albasani.net>
 <56f03080$0$5924$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl> <ncpev8$51d$1 at news.albasani.net>
 <ncpjj0$7ug$1 at dont-email.me> <ncprqb$tl9$1 at news.albasani.net>
 <ncq42h$b8v$1 at news.albasani.net>
In-Reply-To: <ncq42h$b8v$1 at news.albasani.net>
X-Why-Are-You-Looking-Here: Jedi Business, move along
X-Testing: of course!
Message-ID: <mp6dnaVAhbnh6GzLnZ2dnUU7-Y_NnZ2d at earthlink.com>


and the message I'm currently replying to ...

Message-ID: <ncvpqo$jul$1 at news.albasani.net>
References: <ncikss$tks$1 at news.albasani.net>



So I see a few patterns here -- mostly my Message-IDs never appear in any
References so I'd imagine something building a thread of the messages
wouldn't include mine.  But that makes me worry about delivery or at least
properly threading in other clients as well.

I'm not sure why that is it could be using Gmail for my domain or the Gmail
client itself leaving off the List headers that all the other messages
appear to have.  I might need to try my Mutt config on this account to see
if I get different behavior.

Of course it could be that I'm not seeing all the headers I should on my
own messages, or referring to my messages, because in that case perhaps
Gmail is joining messages in my Sent folder with the thread in another
manner.

I should really get this fixed, it's probably not a good thing to have the
messages vanishing from archives and the like.  If you have a few minutes
and can check Message-IDs and references and other headers from my emails
that'd be awesome and might help me track down what is going on.

Thanks for mentioning this!  Cheers,

=D

On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 9:18 PM, Adam <adam at no_thanks.com> wrote:

>
> "Adam" <adam at no_thanks.com> wrote in message
> news:ncikss$tks$1 at news.albasani.net...
> >
> > Host OS:    Ubuntu Desktop 14.04 LTS / Unity
> >
> > System crashed while using PyCharm / Python3.
> > Booting takes forever and stuck at the purple screen with
> > the Ubuntu logo and the five dots cycling.
> > How to fix?
> >
>
> Searching for this thread in a browser lead to
> the code.activestate.com website where
> I see posts from Daniel Wilcox.
> But, in my newsreader, I do not see his posts,
> which is why his posts are not getting any response.
> Daniel, how/where are you responding to this thread?
>
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Apr  2 20:08:32 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 01:08:32 +0100
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <18604420-d8ee-485a-96ef-bbda9a590201@googlegroups.com>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <18604420-d8ee-485a-96ef-bbda9a590201@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ndpmu3$78p$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 02/04/2016 23:23, Loop.IO wrote:
> On Saturday, April 2, 2016 at 11:09:13 PM UTC+1, BartC wrote:
>> On 02/04/2016 22:59, Loop.IO wrote:
>>> Hey
>>>
>>> So I built a keylogger using python as a test, got the code from the tutorial online, I want to improve on it to make it more automated, but the issue I'm having is it won't create the file until I press return, any clues where I'm going wrong?
>>>
>>> If I press return it makes the batch file, otherwise it just hangs.
>>
>>>       name=raw_input ('C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\')+'launch2.bat'
>>
>> You're asking for a file name to be entered. So that if ABC is pressed,
>> followed by Enter, it will use:
>>
>>         C:\Documents\PythonCoding\ABClaunch2.bat
>>
>> Assuming that's the intention, then Enter is needed so that it knows
>> when the user has completed typing the name. If not, then just use:
>>
>>         name='C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\launch2.bat'
>>
>> (If you want a single character name, without pressing Enter, that's
>> harder to do. Someone else will have to help.)
>>
>> --
>> Bartc
>
> Hey Bartc
>
> I don't quite understand what you mean?
>
> The file is just supposed to be created, I don't want to have to press "Enter" or "Return" for it to complete the file creation
>
> the info i followed to create the file advised I had to add the file name and extension on after like in the code
>

There is no point asking BartC about Python as he has repeatedly stated 
that he knows nothing about Python.  OTOH there are loads of people here 
who do know Python, backwards, sideways and inside out.  If you state 
precisely what you are trying to achieve then you will get the correct 
answer.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Apr  2 20:11:55 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 01:11:55 +0100
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <CAGgTfkN46XpjbwZHV8roFT3f-uTXd0sw7J87Np3jh9WaqTp0BQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
 <CAGgTfkN46XpjbwZHV8roFT3f-uTXd0sw7J87Np3jh9WaqTp0BQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ndpn4f$boe$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 02/04/2016 23:37, Michael Selik wrote:
> I might be overlooking something, but raw_input (Python 2) and input
> (Python 3) won't return the input from sys.stdin until you type ENTER. Or
> did I misunderstand the question?
>
> On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 6:30 PM BartC <bc at freeuk.com> wrote:
>
>> On 02/04/2016 23:16, Ned Batchelder wrote:
>>> On Saturday, April 2, 2016 at 6:09:13 PM UTC-4, BartC wrote:
>>>> On 02/04/2016 22:59, Loop.IO wrote:
>>>>> Hey
>>>>>
>>>>> So I built a keylogger using python as a test, got the code from the
>> tutorial online, I want to improve on it to make it more automated, but the
>> issue I'm having is it won't create the file until I press return, any
>> clues where I'm going wrong?
>>>>>
>>>>> If I press return it makes the batch file, otherwise it just hangs.
>>>>
>>>>>        name=raw_input ('C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\')+'launch2.bat'
>>>>
>>>> You're asking for a file name to be entered. So that if ABC is pressed,
>>>> followed by Enter, it will use:
>>>>
>>>>          C:\Documents\PythonCoding\ABClaunch2.bat
>>>
>>> That line of code will prompt the user:
>>>
>>>       C:\Documents\PythonCoding\
>>>
>>> then the user enters ABC<enter>:
>>>
>>>       C:\Documents\PythonCoding\ABC
>>>
>>> and raw_input returns "ABC", so name becomes "ABClaunch2.bat".
>>
>> Yes, of course. I ran the code and picked up the wrong line even though
>> I printed out 'name'!
>>
>> But, it does look as though that path is supposed to form part of the
>> resulting filename.
>>
>> --
>> Bartc
>> --
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>

BartC is renowned for knowing nothing about Python by his own 
admittance, and would you please not top post on the list.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From bc at freeuk.com  Sat Apr  2 20:12:09 2016
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 01:12:09 +0100
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <03c7da56-c752-460f-98b1-84b7166a2cc3@googlegroups.com>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
 <03c7da56-c752-460f-98b1-84b7166a2cc3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ndpmuo$4sq$1@dont-email.me>

On 02/04/2016 23:31, Loop.IO wrote:

> Oh i see, so the code prompts for a name.. so i'm more lost than i thought, what do I need to change to make it just create the file with the chosen name Launch2.bat without the prompt?

If you don't want the user to enter anything, then I explained how 
before, just use:

      name='C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\launch2.bat'

if that's the file name you need.

-- 
Bartc


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Apr  2 20:26:21 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 01:26:21 +0100
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <57005a7e$0$1589$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <57005a7e$0$1589$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <ndpnvh$mt1$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 03/04/2016 00:49, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 03:12 am, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>
>> Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>
>>> Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:
>>>> So you're saying that learning to be a fluent speaker of English is a
>>>> pre-requisite of being a programmer?
>>>
>>> No more than learning Latin is a prerequisite of being a doctor.
>>
>> Full ACK.  Probably starting with the Industrial Revolution enabled by the
>> improvements of the steam machine in England, English has become the
>> /lingua franca/ of technology (even though the French often still
>> disagree, preferring words like ? ordinateur ? and ? octet ? over
>> ?computer? and ?byte?, respectively?).  (With the Internet at the latest,
>> then, it has also become the /lingua franca/ of science, although Latin
>> terms are common in medicine.)
>
> And this is a BAD THING. Monoculture is harmful, and science and technology
> is becoming a monoculture: Anglo-American language expressing
> Anglo-American ideas, regardless of the nationality of the scientist or
> engineer.
>
> During the heyday of the scientific revolution, the sciences and mathematics
> were much diverse. Depending on your field, the professional scientist
> needed at least a working knowledge of German, French, English and Latin,
> possibly some Greek and Russian. Likewise for engineering.
>
> I don't think that it is a coincidence that the great scientific theories
> like relativity (both of them), quantum mechanics, evolution by natural
> selection and continental drift had time to mature in smaller, national
> communities before diffusing out to broader international communities.
>
> Fortunately at least some people are aware of the problem and doing
> something about it:
>
> https://blog.stackoverflow.com/2014/02/cant-we-all-be-reasonable-and-speak-english/
>
> Unlike the rest of us, Stackoverflow have actually run the numbers:
>
> 10% of the world's programmers are in China
> 1.4% of their visits come from China
>
> so either Chinese developers are so brilliant and knowledgeable that they
> have no need of Stackoverflow, or they're unable to make use of it because
> they cannot participate in English-only forums.
>
>
>>> Nowadays software companies and communities are international. You never
>>> know who needs to maintain your code. At work, I need to maintain code
>>> that was created in Japan, with coworkers from all over the world. The
>>> Japanese author had had a hard time with English, and made some
>>> awkward naming choices, but had the common sense to use English-only
>>> names in his code.
>>
>> One will have a hard time finding a company or community, international or
>> not, that does not have at least a basic knowledge of English included in
>> what they require of a software developer.
>
> Particularly if one keeps a Euro-centric perspective and doesn't look to
> Asia or Brazil.
>

My mum was from Tredegar.  She was very upset because English newspaper 
correspondents were biased against her "boys", and because the selectors 
never even put her into the squad, let alone the starting lineup.

Of course this is completely irrelevant on the Python programming main 
mailing list, but it appears that any old crap is acceptable in the year 
2016.

A Bot, a Bot, any kingdom for a Bot.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Apr  2 20:38:21 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 01:38:21 +0100
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <ndpmuo$4sq$1@dont-email.me>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
 <03c7da56-c752-460f-98b1-84b7166a2cc3@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpmuo$4sq$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ndpom1$ujq$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 03/04/2016 01:12, BartC wrote:
> On 02/04/2016 23:31, Loop.IO wrote:
>
>> Oh i see, so the code prompts for a name.. so i'm more lost than i
>> thought, what do I need to change to make it just create the file with
>> the chosen name Launch2.bat without the prompt?
>
> If you don't want the user to enter anything, then I explained how
> before, just use:
>
>       name='C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\launch2.bat'
>
> if that's the file name you need.
>

name = r'C:\Documents\PythonCoding\launch2.bat'

Alternatively you could just use a forward slash.

I'm not sure which is the most efficient, I'll leave that to others to test.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From steve at pearwood.info  Sat Apr  2 20:48:19 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 10:48:19 +1000
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.372.1459624062.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <877fgfrefw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.376.1459633388.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57006856$0$1614$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 07:42 am, Michael Selik wrote:

> Gaming also helps your reaction time. Normally 0.3 ms, but 0.1 ms for top
> gamers. And fighter pilots.


Does gaming help reaction time, or do only people with fast reaction times
become top gamers?

Personally, in my experience gaming hurts reaction time. I ask people a
question, and they don't reply for a week or at all, because they're too
busy playing games all day.


-- 
Steven



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Apr  2 21:04:05 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 02:04:05 +0100
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <57006856$0$1614$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.372.1459624062.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <877fgfrefw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.376.1459633388.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <57006856$0$1614$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <ndpq69$jkc$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 03/04/2016 01:48, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 07:42 am, Michael Selik wrote:
>
>> Gaming also helps your reaction time. Normally 0.3 ms, but 0.1 ms for top
>> gamers. And fighter pilots.
>
> Does gaming help reaction time, or do only people with fast reaction times
> become top gamers?
>
> Personally, in my experience gaming hurts reaction time. I ask people a
> question, and they don't reply for a week or at all, because they're too
> busy playing games all day.
>

I must agree.  When you're trying to get the ball away, and 23 stone of 
bone and muscle smashes into you, that slows your reaction time.  I am 
of course referring to the sport of rugby, not that silly "World 
Series", which takes part in only one country, where for some reason 
unknown to me they wear huge quantities of armour and need oxygen masks 
after they've run a few yards.  What would happen to the poor little 
darlings if they had to spend the entire match on the pitch?

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From steve at pearwood.info  Sat Apr  2 22:33:50 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 12:33:50 +1000
Subject: Drowning in a teacup?
References: <ndmlj2$pb0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <a2445859-f1ff-42cf-88ca-4004517b6624@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.373.1459626877.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5700810f$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 05:54 am, Random832 wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 2, 2016, at 15:28, Ned Batchelder wrote:
>> On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 4:27:30 PM UTC-4, Fillmore wrote:
>> > notorious pass by reference vs pass by value biting me in the backside
>> > here. Proceeding in order.
>> 
>> As others have pointed out, this is false dichotomy.  There are other
>> possibilities than pass by reference and pass by value.  Python (and
>> many other languages) use something called pass by object or pass by
>> sharing.
> 
> I think that this arises from a confusion as to what a "value" is in
> "pass by value".

I don't understand what you mean by this. Are you defending the idea that
Python is pass-by-value, or saying that Fillmore is confused by what
pass-by-value means, or something else? What precisely are you trying to
say here?



> The point of it being pass by value is that there is no statement you
> can execute in the function that has the effect of an assignment of the
> expression that was passed in from the caller. 

No, that alone is insufficient. There are other calling conventions that
have the same effect. Pass-by-value also requires that the value being
passed is copied.

Unfortunately we've been plagued by a bunch of comp sci graduates who suffer
from the "little bit of learning" problem. Having learned that there are
only two calling conventions, pass by value and pass by reference, and
correctly recognising that their language of choice is not pass by
reference, they then jump through some remarkable intellectual contortions
to prove that it is therefore pass by value.

To do this, they normally redefine "value" to mean something other than what
everyone else thinks of as the value being passed to a function.

The Java community is especially prone to this:

http://javadude.com/articles/passbyvalue.htm

Note the author's definition of pass-by-value:

[quote]
Pass-by-value

The actual parameter (or argument expression) is fully evaluated and the
resulting value is copied into a location being used to hold the formal
parameter's value during method/function execution.
[end quote]


That the value is *copied* is fundamental to pass by value semantics.

The author, Scott Stanchfield, then claims that Java is pass by value. 

(Note: for this entire discussion, I'm referring to boxed values, or
objects, not primitives. There's no dispute that Java is pass by value for
primitives.)

But to make this work, he has to use a bit of slight of hand: what gets
copied in Java function calls is not the value of the argument, but some
abstract reference to that value. There's this invisible abstract reference
is the value of the variable.

He doesn't come right out and say this, but if you read his description of
what Java does, it should be obvious that he thinks of Java variables as
being bound to abstract pointers or references rather than being bound to
objects themselves. Consequently, if you bind a value to a variable name:

String str = "Hello";

then to Stanchfield, the value of the string variable str is presumably
not "Hello", but some unknown and unknowable abstract reference like
0x832fe50.

This is the only way to make sense of his argument. Objects are not copied
when you pass them to a function in Java, but the invisible reference to
the object may be. Fredrik Lundh (the Effbot) quite rightly holds this view
in scorn:


[quote]
I guess you can, in theory, value an artificial number assigned
to an object as much as the object itself.

    "Joe, I think our son might be lost in the woods"
    "Don't worry, I have his social security number"
[end quote]

http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm


Stanchfield's view of invisible references to objects being passed by value
is, I have no doubt, right from the perspective of the Java implementation.
Some would argue that he is "technically correct". But he is answering the
wrong question. Calling Java (or Python) "pass by value" gives us no
insight into how the language works. It is reductionism gone mad.

Nobody, except maybe compiler designers, cares how the Java virtual machine
implements argument passing. What Java developers care about is the
behaviour of the Java language. Java's so-called "pass by value (where the
value is some invisible reference to the value you actually care about)"
behaves quite differently from pass by value in C, Pascal and others. Java
doesn't copy objects when you pass them to functions. Nor does it pass
references in pass by reference sense.

Java objects are passed using the exact same semantics as Python objects,
and neither pass by reference nor pass by value match that actual
behaviour. Both languages provide an abstraction layer between the internal
implementation details of the interpreter or virtual machine, and the
high-level behaviour of the language.


Stanchfield makes the same mistake with his claim that "Java has pointers",
since of course it does not. The Java language gives you no way of creating
such pointers to arbitrary chunks of memory (or to primitives), no way to
dereference such a pointer if you had one (which you don't), and especially
no way of advancing such (non-existent) pointers to the next record in
memory. To put it another way, not only are pointers not first-class values
in Java, they aren't values at all. There's no way to declare a variable of
type "Pointer to Foo", or equivalent.

So Stanchfield's claim that "Java has pointers" is, again, based on his
conflating of values in the Java language compared to implementation
details of the Java virtual machine. The JVM manages objects via indirect
references to the object, and for that indirection, it may use some form
of "thing which points to another thing":

- C pointers (memory addresses);
- some form of managed reference to a memory location;
- classic Mac OS "handles" (managed pointers-to-pointers);
- or even integer indexes into a giant array, like early 
  versions of Fortran. 

But that hardly means that pointers are a feature of the Java language.



> This holds no matter what 
> kind of object is passed in or what mutable properties it has or does
> not have.

I'm still not getting your point.


-- 
Steven



From hongyi.zhao at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 23:28:23 2016
From: hongyi.zhao at gmail.com (Hongyi Zhao)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 03:28:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Failed to update the os.environ with subprocess.Popen.
Message-ID: <ndq2kn$h77$1@aspen.stu.neva.ru>

Hi all,

I use the following code to update the os.environ with subprocess.Popen:

-------------
from subprocess import Popen

output = Popen("""
/bin/bash <<EOF
source ~/.profile.d/modules/modules.sh
export PATH=$MODULESHOME/../default/bin:$PATH
module add intel/parallel_studio_xe_2015
env -0
EOF
""", shell=True)

if "" in os.environ.data: del os.environ.data[""]
os.environ.clear()
os.environ.update(line.partition('=')[::2] for line in output.split('\0'))
-------------

But, I meet the following errors:

------------
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/werner/software/hpc/dft-to-study/jasp/jasp.git/jasp/bin/
runjasp.py", line 125, in <module>
    os.environ.update(line.partition('=')[::2] for line in output.split
('\0'))
AttributeError: 'Popen' object has no attribute 'split'
-------------------

How to solve this issue?
-- 
.: Hongyi Zhao [ hongyi.zhao AT gmail.com ] Free as in Freedom :.


From hongyi.zhao at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 23:28:54 2016
From: hongyi.zhao at gmail.com (Hongyi Zhao)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 03:28:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Failed to update the os.environ with subprocess.Popen.
Message-ID: <ndq2ll$h79$1@aspen.stu.neva.ru>

Hi all,

I use the following code to update the os.environ with subprocess.Popen:

-------------
from subprocess import Popen

output = Popen("""
/bin/bash <<EOF
source ~/.profile.d/modules/modules.sh
export PATH=$MODULESHOME/../default/bin:$PATH
module add intel/parallel_studio_xe_2015
env -0
EOF
""", shell=True)

if "" in os.environ.data: del os.environ.data[""]
os.environ.clear()
os.environ.update(line.partition('=')[::2] for line in output.split('\0'))
-------------

But, I meet the following errors:

------------
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/werner/software/hpc/dft-to-study/jasp/jasp.git/jasp/bin/
runjasp.py", line 125, in <module>
    os.environ.update(line.partition('=')[::2] for line in output.split
('\0'))
AttributeError: 'Popen' object has no attribute 'split'
-------------------

How to solve this issue?
-- 
.: Hongyi Zhao [ hongyi.zhao AT gmail.com ] Free as in Freedom :.


From hongyi.zhao at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 23:29:24 2016
From: hongyi.zhao at gmail.com (Hongyi Zhao)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 03:29:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Failed to update the os.environ with subprocess.Popen.
Message-ID: <ndq2mk$h7a$1@aspen.stu.neva.ru>

Hi all,

I use the following code to update the os.environ with subprocess.Popen:

-------------
from subprocess import Popen

output = Popen("""
/bin/bash <<EOF
source ~/.profile.d/modules/modules.sh
export PATH=$MODULESHOME/../default/bin:$PATH
module add intel/parallel_studio_xe_2015
env -0
EOF
""", shell=True)

if "" in os.environ.data: del os.environ.data[""]
os.environ.clear()
os.environ.update(line.partition('=')[::2] for line in output.split('\0'))
-------------

But, I meet the following errors:

------------
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/werner/software/hpc/dft-to-study/jasp/jasp.git/jasp/bin/
runjasp.py", line 125, in <module>
    os.environ.update(line.partition('=')[::2] for line in output.split
('\0'))
AttributeError: 'Popen' object has no attribute 'split'
-------------------

How to solve this issue?
-- 
.: Hongyi Zhao [ hongyi.zhao AT gmail.com ] Free as in Freedom :.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Apr  2 23:37:24 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 13:37:24 +1000
Subject: Get the output from a Popen instance (was: Failed to update the
 os.environ with subprocess.Popen.)
References: <ndq2kn$h77$1@aspen.stu.neva.ru>
Message-ID: <85bn5r8irv.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao at gmail.com> writes:

> I use the following code to update the os.environ with
> subprocess.Popen

Again, it is quite misleading to describe what you are doing as ?update
the os.environ with subprocess.Popen?.

The ?subprocess.Popen? call *cannot* upsdate the Python process's
?os.environ?.

What you're doing is two quite separate steps:

* Obtain a collection of items (key ? value pairs).

* Update a dictionary.

Please be clear that's what you're doing because ?update ?os.environ?
with ?subprocess.Popen? is *not* that.

> But, I meet the following errors:
>
> ------------
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/home/werner/software/hpc/dft-to-study/jasp/jasp.git/jasp/bin/
> runjasp.py", line 125, in <module>
>     os.environ.update(line.partition('=')[::2] for line in output.split
> ('\0'))
> AttributeError: 'Popen' object has no attribute 'split'
> -------------------

So your problem is nothing to do with ?update ?os.environ??. I have
updated the Subject field accordingly.

The problem you're encountering is only to do with ?subprocess.Popen?.
That should make it much easier to search for the documentation to
understand the problem.

<URL:https://docs.python.org/3/library/subprocess.html#subprocess.Popen.stdout>

-- 
 \     ?When people believe that they have absolute knowledge, with no |
  `\     test in reality, this [the Auschwitz crematorium] is how they |
_o__)             behave.? ?Jacob Bronowski, _The Ascent of Man_, 1973 |
Ben Finney



From hongyi.zhao at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 00:00:54 2016
From: hongyi.zhao at gmail.com (Hongyi Zhao)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 04:00:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Get the output from a Popen instance (was: Failed to update the
 os.environ with subprocess.Popen.)
References: <ndq2kn$h77$1@aspen.stu.neva.ru>
 <mailman.388.1459654659.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ndq4hl$ia8$1@aspen.stu.neva.ru>

On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 13:37:24 +1000, Ben Finney wrote:

>> But, I meet the following errors:
>>
>> ------------
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/home/werner/software/hpc/dft-to-study/jasp/jasp.git/jasp/bin/
>> runjasp.py", line 125, in <module>
>>     os.environ.update(line.partition('=')[::2] for line in output.split
>> ('\0'))
>> AttributeError: 'Popen' object has no attribute 'split'
>> -------------------
> 
> So your problem is nothing to do with ?update ?os.environ??. I have
> updated the Subject field accordingly.
> 
> The problem you're encountering is only to do with ?subprocess.Popen?.
> That should make it much easier to search for the documentation to
> understand the problem.
> 
> <URL:https://docs.python.org/3/library/
subprocess.html#subprocess.Popen.stdout>

Thanks a lot, got it. Should be used as follows:

output = Popen("""
/bin/bash <<EOF
source ~/.profile.d/modules/modules.sh
export PATH=$MODULESHOME/../default/bin:$PATH
module add intel/parallel_studio_xe_2015
env -0
EOF
""", shell=True,  stdout=PIPE).communicate()[0]

Regards
-- 
.: Hongyi Zhao [ hongyi.zhao AT gmail.com ] Free as in Freedom :.


From steve at pearwood.info  Sun Apr  3 00:24:16 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 14:24:16 +1000
Subject: Failed to update the os.environ with subprocess.Popen.
References: <ndq2mk$h7a$1@aspen.stu.neva.ru>
Message-ID: <57009af2$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 01:29 pm, Hongyi Zhao wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I use the following code to update the os.environ with subprocess.Popen:


I don't understand what you are trying to do here. But regardless of your
intention, the problem you have is nothing to do with updating os.environ.
Proof: change the last line from this complicated expression:

os.environ.update(line.partition('=')[::2] for line in output.split('\0'))

to this simple expression:

output.split('\0')

and you will get the same error. os.environ is irrelevant. Your problem is
only with Popen.

What makes you think that Popen objects have a split() method? They are not
documented as having this method:

https://docs.python.org/2/library/subprocess.html

https://docs.python.org/3/library/subprocess.html

https://pymotw.com/2/subprocess/




-- 
Steven



From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Apr  3 00:43:47 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 16:43:47 +1200
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dmblc5Fq1foU1@mid.individual.net>

Chris Angelico wrote:
> Yep! And the letters (thorn and eth) survive in a very few languages
> (Icelandic, notably). Fortunately, Python 3 lets you use it in
> identifiers.

This suggests an elegant solution to the problem of whether
"python" should refer to Python 2 or Python 3. The Python 3
link should be "py?on"!

-- 
Greg


From steve at pearwood.info  Sun Apr  3 00:43:59 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 14:43:59 +1000
Subject: Strange range
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1671ea2b-09ff-4745-a6e7-d2c57864cba3@googlegroups.com>
 <87zitbpwpr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <57009f91$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 06:44 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> I don't have a problem with a list being a "reiterable." I only was
> surprised about range(), which I had thought to be a plain,
> down-to-earth iterator. There's barely any other practical use for a
> range, I believe.

I can understand that you were mistaken. It's an easy mistake to make.

But I don't understand why you seem to be insisting that its somehow a flaw
that (x)range is implemented as a "lazy list" instead of an iterator.

If you want an iterator, it's only a single function call away: iter(r).

In the meantime, range objects provide the full sequence API. They're not
quite full lists, as they don't allow arbitrary orderings or arbitrary
items, so any list method which implies that arbitrary items can be
inserted or deleted are not included.

It also acts as a proof of concept that Python supports intelligent, lazy
objects that can produce values on demand.

If you personally don't see any advantage in this, so be it, but you might
not be aware of the history of (x)range:

Guido in 2001: "Nobody uses this extra functionality, and its buggy, let's
get rid of it."

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0260/

Feature request in 2004: "Membership testing in xrange objects is horribly
slow. Let's add a __contains__ method."

http://bugs.python.org/issue1002085

(Request rejected, because the __contains__ method was removed in 2002.)

Discussion and feature request in 2007: "We really ought to fix that slow
performance of (x)range membership testing..."

http://bugs.python.org/issue1766304


So it's one of those things on the border of useful or not. Those who use
it, miss it when its gone. Those who don't, don't understand why anyone
wants it.



-- 
Steven



From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Apr  3 00:57:16 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 16:57:16 +1200
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
Message-ID: <dmbm5eFq6tvU1@mid.individual.net>

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> even though the French often still disagree, 
> preferring words like ? ordinateur ? and ? octet ? over ?computer? and 
> ?byte?, respectively

To be fair, "octet" is a slightly more precise term than
"byte", meaning exactly 8 bits (whereas "byte" could
theoretically mean something else depending on the
context).

There's no excuse for "ordinateur", though. :-)

-- 
Greg


From random832 at fastmail.com  Sun Apr  3 01:20:52 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 01:20:52 -0400
Subject: Strange range
In-Reply-To: <57009f91$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1671ea2b-09ff-4745-a6e7-d2c57864cba3@googlegroups.com>
 <87zitbpwpr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <57009f91$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1459660852.1498819.567133042.73910FE5@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016, at 00:43, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> If you personally don't see any advantage in this, so be it, but you
> might
> not be aware of the history of (x)range:
> 
> Guido in 2001: "Nobody uses this extra functionality, and its buggy,
> let's
> get rid of it."
> 
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0260/

Several of those features apparently never did come back. The repeat
count never did (you can't multiply ranges now), and it occurs to me
that slicing a range that has a repeat count is intractable:
(range(3)*2)[1:5] should yield 1, 2, 0, 1, which can't be represented as
a range object. It also doesn't support comparison operations.


From steve at pearwood.info  Sun Apr  3 01:28:49 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 15:28:49 +1000
Subject: Strange range
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1671ea2b-09ff-4745-a6e7-d2c57864cba3@googlegroups.com>
 <87zitbpwpr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <57009f91$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <5700aa13$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 02:43 pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> If you personally don't see any advantage in this, so be it, but you might
> not be aware of the history of (x)range:
> 
> Guido in 2001: "..."

Correction: these are not direct quotes, but paraphrases. My apologies for
any confusion.


-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Sun Apr  3 01:34:27 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 15:34:27 +1000
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <dmbm5eFq6tvU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <5700ab65$0$1584$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 02:57 pm, Gregory Ewing wrote:

> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> even though the French often still disagree,
>> preferring words like ? ordinateur ? and ? octet ? over ?computer? and
>> ?byte?, respectively
> 
> To be fair, "octet" is a slightly more precise term than
> "byte", meaning exactly 8 bits (whereas "byte" could
> theoretically mean something else depending on the
> context).

"Theoretically"?

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2098149/what-platforms-have-something-other-than-8-bit-char






-- 
Steven



From me+python at ixokai.io  Sun Apr  3 02:43:12 2016
From: me+python at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 23:43:12 -0700
Subject: Strange range
In-Reply-To: <87vb3zpu49.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1671ea2b-09ff-4745-a6e7-d2c57864cba3@googlegroups.com>
 <87zitbpwpr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.375.1459631138.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87vb3zpu49.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <1459665792.195389.567158250.1843796D@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sat, Apr 2, 2016, at 02:40 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> That's why I was looking for counterexamples in the standard library

This entire bent of an argument seems flawed to me.

The standard library has never been a beacon for best practices or
idiomatic uses of Python. That a use exists in the standard library, or
that one does not, doesn't really tell you anything meaningful about
Python itself or good practices with the language. The standard library
is under uniquely conservative constraints that enshrine compatibility
and reliability from one point release to another over any kind of
innovation. 

That code exists in the standard library is, itself, an incredibly
strong reason why it should stay as IS: changes for style, idiom, best
practices, modern techniques, those are all valid but *weak* arguments
to change the standard library. 

The stdlib works and its continuing to work tomorrow is its most
important burden. Just look at how much of the stdlib is not PEP8
compliant. Changing it to be PEP8 compliant is seen as a worse thing to
do then the possibility of introducing bugs by doing such a sweeping
change in the interest of good practices and style.

The stdlib exists as a bastion of stability above all else. Its
standards aren't a reason to make a change (or, not to make a change,
either). That doesn't mean its not useful to look at the standard
library, but you should not enshrine it as the example of good or
idiomatic code to measure decisions against. Most code exists outside
the stdlib. 

---
Stephen Hansen
  m e @ i x o k a i . i o


From marko at pacujo.net  Sun Apr  3 02:58:26 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 09:58:26 +0300
Subject: Strange range
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1671ea2b-09ff-4745-a6e7-d2c57864cba3@googlegroups.com>
 <87zitbpwpr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.375.1459631138.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87vb3zpu49.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.391.1459665795.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87shz3p4a5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Stephen Hansen <me+python at ixokai.io>:

> On Sat, Apr 2, 2016, at 02:40 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> That's why I was looking for counterexamples in the standard library
>
> This entire bent of an argument seems flawed to me.
>
> The standard library has never been a beacon for best practices or
> idiomatic uses of Python.

It's an obvious corpus of Python code not written by me that's readily
available on my computer. An argument was made that range() has varied
uses. I was trying to find those varied uses.

> That a use exists in the standard library, or that one does not,
> doesn't really tell you anything meaningful about Python itself or
> good practices with the language. The standard library is under
> uniquely conservative constraints that enshrine compatibility and
> reliability from one point release to another over any kind of
> innovation.

What you seem to be saying is that range() used to be an iterator but
has since ascended to the status of an iterable.

> Most code exists outside the stdlib.

Which should then make it easy for you to point out the kinds of
counterexamples I was looking for.


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 03:08:21 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 17:08:21 +1000
Subject: Strange range
In-Reply-To: <1459665792.195389.567158250.1843796D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1671ea2b-09ff-4745-a6e7-d2c57864cba3@googlegroups.com>
 <87zitbpwpr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.375.1459631138.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87vb3zpu49.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1459665792.195389.567158250.1843796D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpGxGJwHK5-Zo-MC72=Odc0=OiNT0QuVf-P9a-N4j4u6w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 4:43 PM, Stephen Hansen <me+python at ixokai.io> wrote:
> The stdlib exists as a bastion of stability above all else. Its
> standards aren't a reason to make a change (or, not to make a change,
> either). That doesn't mean its not useful to look at the standard
> library, but you should not enshrine it as the example of good or
> idiomatic code to measure decisions against. Most code exists outside
> the stdlib.

Expanding on this: There have been times when the stdlib has been
cited in proposals, such as the introduction of a new keyword. Out of
five plausible words, two have significant use in the stdlib, another
has a couple of uses, and two more have no references at all. Specific
example from PEP 359 [1]; the same line of analysis has also been used
elsewhere. Also, a proposed new syntax can attempt to justify its
benefit by taking examples from the stdlib, not because they will
necessarily be changed, but simply because it's a good-sized codebase
that all Python devs and tinkerers will have easy access to. PEP 463
[2] demonstrates this. Similarly, but in reverse: The stdlib can
provide examples showing how a proposal will _break_ existing code,
and how it should be fixed; PEP 479 [3] has a few examples, some from
the stdlib, some hypothetical. In each case, the stdlib is being
treated as simply "a body of Python code", and one which has a measure
of neutrality (we're not favouring web app developers by looking at
the Django source code, or numeric computational work by looking at
Pandas, or anything like that), and if anything, it's indicative of
older codebases rather than newer ones, which is usually good for
proposals that need to be conservative.

So in the case of range() usage, I would say that stdlib usage showing
"x in range(...)" would be highly significant, but *absence* of such
usage is not.

ChrisA

[1] https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0359/#keyword
[2] https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0463/#example-usage
[3] https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0479/#examples-of-breakage


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 03:10:42 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 17:10:42 +1000
Subject: Strange range
In-Reply-To: <87shz3p4a5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1671ea2b-09ff-4745-a6e7-d2c57864cba3@googlegroups.com>
 <87zitbpwpr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.375.1459631138.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87vb3zpu49.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.391.1459665795.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87shz3p4a5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqkOq94rks1bJt6nwQdaBOBS95yPVZp-UVkBU4K6y6=7w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 4:58 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> That a use exists in the standard library, or that one does not,
>> doesn't really tell you anything meaningful about Python itself or
>> good practices with the language. The standard library is under
>> uniquely conservative constraints that enshrine compatibility and
>> reliability from one point release to another over any kind of
>> innovation.
>
> What you seem to be saying is that range() used to be an iterator but
> has since ascended to the status of an iterable.

No, range() has never returned an iterator. In Python 2, it returned a
list, which is iterable. In Python 3, it returns a range object, which
is iterable. And in Python 2, xrange returns an xrange object, which
is also iterable (but less functional than the Py3 range object). None
of these is an iterator.

ChrisA


From PointedEars at web.de  Sun Apr  3 04:12:35 2016
From: PointedEars at web.de (Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 10:12:35 +0200
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <ndmt1u$tfo$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.390.1459662895.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5902127.ulEZ6DodmD@PointedEars.de>

Michael Torrie wrote:

> Mark, your messages are showing up to the list as being from "python,"
> at least on my email.  Any reason for this?

Depends on which Mark you are addressing and how you are reading e-mail.

The messages of Mark Lawrence, for example, appear to me as technically 
correct as can be expected from a botched Mail-to-News interface; in 
particular, their ?From? header fields are correct.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.


From cs at zip.com.au  Sun Apr  3 04:20:31 2016
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 18:20:31 +1000
Subject: Failed to update the os.environ with subprocess.Popen.
In-Reply-To: <57009af2$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <57009af2$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20160403082031.GA42241@cskk.homeip.net>

On 03Apr2016 14:24, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
>On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 01:29 pm, Hongyi Zhao wrote:
>> I use the following code to update the os.environ with subprocess.Popen:
>
>I don't understand what you are trying to do here. But regardless of your
>intention, the problem you have is nothing to do with updating os.environ.
>Proof: change the last line from this complicated expression:
>
>os.environ.update(line.partition('=')[::2] for line in output.split('\0'))
>to this simple expression:
>output.split('\0')
>
>and you will get the same error. os.environ is irrelevant. Your problem is
>only with Popen.
>
>What makes you think that Popen objects have a split() method? They are not
>documented as having this method:
>
>https://docs.python.org/2/library/subprocess.html
>https://docs.python.org/3/library/subprocess.html
>https://pymotw.com/2/subprocess/

In particular, you want the subprocess' output. As written, your code sets 
"output" to the Popen object. You actually want to set it to the .stdout 
attribute of that object, which is the output from the subcommand.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>


From hongyi.zhao at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 07:24:42 2016
From: hongyi.zhao at gmail.com (Hongyi Zhao)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 11:24:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Failed to update the os.environ with subprocess.Popen.
References: <57009af2$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.394.1459671641.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ndquho$62b$1@aspen.stu.neva.ru>

On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 18:20:31 +1000, Cameron Simpson wrote:

> In particular, you want the subprocess' output. As written, your code
> sets "output" to the Popen object. You actually want to set it to the
> .stdout attribute of that object, which is the output from the
> subcommand.

Based on your above hints, I try to use the following codes:

output = Popen("""
/bin/bash <<EOF
source ~/.profile.d/environment-module-systems/modules.sh
export PATH=$MODULESHOME/../default/bin:$PATH
module add intel/parallel_studio_xe_2015
env -0
EOF
""", shell=True).stdout

But I meet the following error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/werner/software/hpc/dft-to-study/jasp/jasp.git/jasp/bin/
runjasp.py", line 138, in <module>
    os.environ.update(line.partition('=')[::2] for line in output.split
('\0'))
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'split'


While the following code will work smoothly:

output = Popen("""
/bin/bash <<EOF
source ~/.profile.d/modules/modules.sh
export PATH=$MODULESHOME/../default/bin:$PATH
module add intel/parallel_studio_xe_2015
env -0
EOF
""", shell=True, stdout=PIPE).communicate()[0]

Any hints on this issue?

Regards
-- 
.: Hongyi Zhao [ hongyi.zhao AT gmail.com ] Free as in Freedom :.


From PointedEars at web.de  Sun Apr  3 07:47:21 2016
From: PointedEars at web.de (Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 13:47:21 +0200
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>

Rustom Mody wrote:

> On Saturday, April 2, 2016 at 10:42:27 PM UTC+5:30, Thomas 'PointedEars'
> Lahn wrote:
>> Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> > Steven D'Aprano :
>> >> So you're saying that learning to be a fluent speaker of English is a
>> >> pre-requisite of being a programmer?
>> > 
>> > No more than learning Latin is a prerequisite of being a doctor.
>> 
>> Full ACK.  Probably starting with the Industrial Revolution enabled by
>> the improvements of the steam machine in England, English has become the
>> /lingua franca/ of technology (even though the French often still
>> disagree, preferring words like ? ordinateur ? and ? octet ? over
>> ?computer? and
>> ?byte?, respectively?).  (With the Internet at the latest, then, it has
>> also become the /lingua franca/ of science, although Latin terms are
>> common in medicine.)
> 
> IMHO the cavalier usage of random alphabet-soup for identifiers

Straw man.  Nobody has suggested that.  Suggested were words in natural 
languages other than English as (parts of) names in Python programs.

The suggestion was rejected by some (including me) on the grounds that 
source code is not written only for the person writing it, but also for 
other developers to read, and that English is the /lingua franca/ of 
software development at least.  So it is reasonable to expect a software 
developer to understand English, and more software developers are going to 
understand the source code if it is written in English.

Another argument that was made in favor of English-language names (albeit on 
the grounds of ?nausea? instead of the logical reason of practicality) is 
that the (Python) programming language?s keywords (e.g., False, None, True, 
and, as, assert [1]) and built-in identifiers (e.g., NotImplemented, 
Ellipsis, abs, all, int, float, complex, iterator [2]) are (abbreviations or 
concatenations of) *English* words; therefore, mixing keywords with names
in a natural language other than English causes source code to be more 
difficult to read than an all-English source code (string values 
notwithstanding).  This is particularly true with Python because a lot of 
(well-written) Python code can easily be read as if it were pseudocode.  (I 
would not be surprised at all to learn that this was Guido van Rossum?s 
intention.)

As for the ?Chinese? argument, I did some research recently, indicating that 
it is a statistical fallacy:

<http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/english-craze-hits-chinese-language-standards>
<http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/asians-offer-region-lesson-%E2%80%93-english>

>From personal experience, I can say that I had no great difficulty 
communicating in English with my Chinese flatmates and classmates at a 
German technical university when all of us were studying computer science 
there 16 years ago.  It was natural.  At least the boys even preferred self-
chosen English first names for themselves (e.g., in instant messaging) 
since, as they explained to me, their original names were difficult to 
pronounce correctly for Europeans (or Europeans might mistakenly call them 
by their family name since it would come first), and to type on European 
keyboards (although I observed them to be proficient in using IMEs when 
chatting with their folks back home).

____________
[1] <https://docs.python.org/3/reference/lexical_analysis.html#identifiers>
[2] <https://docs.python.org/3/library/>

> can lead to worse than just aesthetic unpleasantness:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN_homograph_attack

Relevance?

> When python went to full unicode identifers it should have also added
> pragmas for which blocks the programmer intended to use -- something like
> a charset declaration of html.
> 
> This way if the programmer says "I want latin and greek"
> and then A and ? get mixed up well he asked for it.
> If he didn't ask then springing it on him seems unnecessary and uncalled
> for

Nonsense.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.


From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Sun Apr  3 08:37:44 2016
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 12:37:44 GMT
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.372.1459624062.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <877fgfrefw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.376.1459633388.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <57006856$0$1614$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.387.1459645456.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <s88My.562783$O02.558049@fx38.am4>

On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 02:04:05 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> On 03/04/2016 01:48, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 07:42 am, Michael Selik wrote:
>>
>>> Gaming also helps your reaction time. Normally 0.3 ms, but 0.1 ms for
>>> top gamers. And fighter pilots.
>>
>> Does gaming help reaction time, or do only people with fast reaction
>> times become top gamers?
>>
>> Personally, in my experience gaming hurts reaction time. I ask people a
>> question, and they don't reply for a week or at all, because they're
>> too busy playing games all day.
>>
>>
> I must agree.  When you're trying to get the ball away, and 23 stone of
> bone and muscle smashes into you, that slows your reaction time.  I am
> of course referring to the sport of rugby, not that silly "World
> Series", which takes part in only one country, where for some reason
> unknown to me they wear huge quantities of armour and need oxygen masks
> after they've run a few yards.  What would happen to the poor little
> darlings if they had to spend the entire match on the pitch?

while i agree with your sentiments you have a few minor inacuracies

the "World Series" has nothing to do with Poofs In Pads, it is actually 
Rounders. 



-- 
Real programmers don't write in BASIC.  Actually, no programmers write in
BASIC after reaching puberty.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 10:30:47 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 07:30:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
Message-ID: <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 5:17:36 PM UTC+5:30, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Rustom Mody wrote:
> 
> > On Saturday, April 2, 2016 at 10:42:27 PM UTC+5:30, Thomas 'PointedEars'
> > Lahn wrote:
> >> Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> >> > Steven D'Aprano :
> >> >> So you're saying that learning to be a fluent speaker of English is a
> >> >> pre-requisite of being a programmer?
> >> > 
> >> > No more than learning Latin is a prerequisite of being a doctor.
> >> 
> >> Full ACK.  Probably starting with the Industrial Revolution enabled by
> >> the improvements of the steam machine in England, English has become the
> >> /lingua franca/ of technology (even though the French often still
> >> disagree, preferring words like ? ordinateur ? and ? octet ? over
> >> ?computer? and
> >> ?byte?, respectively?).  (With the Internet at the latest, then, it has
> >> also become the /lingua franca/ of science, although Latin terms are
> >> common in medicine.)
> > 
> > IMHO the cavalier usage of random alphabet-soup for identifiers
> 
> Straw man.  Nobody has suggested that.  Suggested were words in natural 
> languages other than English as (parts of) names in Python programs.
> 
> The suggestion was rejected by some (including me) on the grounds that 
> source code is not written only for the person writing it, but also for 
> other developers to read, and that English is the /lingua franca/ of 
> software development at least.  So it is reasonable to expect a software 
> developer to understand English, and more software developers are going to 
> understand the source code if it is written in English.
> 
> Another argument that was made in favor of English-language names (albeit on 
> the grounds of ?nausea? instead of the logical reason of practicality) is 
> that the (Python) programming language?s keywords (e.g., False, None, True, 
> and, as, assert [1]) and built-in identifiers (e.g., NotImplemented, 
> Ellipsis, abs, all, int, float, complex, iterator [2]) are (abbreviations or 
> concatenations of) *English* words; therefore, mixing keywords with names
> in a natural language other than English causes source code to be more 
> difficult to read than an all-English source code (string values 
> notwithstanding).  This is particularly true with Python because a lot of 
> (well-written) Python code can easily be read as if it were pseudocode.  (I 
> would not be surprised at all to learn that this was Guido van Rossum?s 
> intention.)
> 
> As for the ?Chinese? argument, I did some research recently, indicating that 
> it is a statistical fallacy:
> 
> <http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/english-craze-hits-chinese-language-standards>
> <http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/asians-offer-region-lesson-%E2%80%93-english>
> 
> From personal experience, I can say that I had no great difficulty 
> communicating in English with my Chinese flatmates and classmates at a 
> German technical university when all of us were studying computer science 
> there 16 years ago.  It was natural.  At least the boys even preferred self-
> chosen English first names for themselves (e.g., in instant messaging) 
> since, as they explained to me, their original names were difficult to 
> pronounce correctly for Europeans (or Europeans might mistakenly call them 
> by their family name since it would come first), and to type on European 
> keyboards (although I observed them to be proficient in using IMEs when 
> chatting with their folks back home).
> 
> ____________
> [1] <https://docs.python.org/3/reference/lexical_analysis.html#identifiers>
> [2] <https://docs.python.org/3/library/>
> 
> > can lead to worse than just aesthetic unpleasantness:
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN_homograph_attack
> 
> Relevance?
> 
> > When python went to full unicode identifers it should have also added
> > pragmas for which blocks the programmer intended to use -- something like
> > a charset declaration of html.
> > 
> > This way if the programmer says "I want latin and greek"
> > and then A and ? get mixed up well he asked for it.
> > If he didn't ask then springing it on him seems unnecessary and uncalled
> > for
> 
> Nonsense.

Some misunderstanding of what I said it looks
[Guessing also from Marko's "...silly..."]

So here are some examples to illustrate what I am saying:

Example 1 -- Ligatures:

Python3 gets it right
>>> ?ag = 1
>>> flag
1

Whereas haskell gets it wrong:
Prelude> let ?ag = 1
Prelude> flag

<interactive>:3:1: Not in scope: ?flag?
Prelude> ?ag
1
Prelude> 

Example 2 Case Sensitivity
Scheme? gets it right

> (define a 1)
> A
1
> a
1

Python gets it wrong
>>> a=1
>>> A
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
NameError: name 'A' is not defined
>>> a

[Likewise filenames windows gets right; Unix wrong]

Unicode Identifiers in the spirit of IDN homograph attack.
Every language that 'supports' unicode gets it wrong

Python3
>>> A=1
>>> ?
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
NameError: name '?' is not defined
>>> A
1

Can you make out why A both is and is not defined?

When the language does not support it eg python2 the behavior is better

>>> A=1
>>> ?
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    ?
    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>> A
1
>>> 

So whats the point?
The notion of 'variable' in programming language is inherently based on that of
'identifier'.
With ASCII the problems are minor: Case-distinct identifiers are distinct --
they dont IDENTIFY. This contradicts standard English usage and practice
buts its not such a big deal
With Unicode there are zillions of look-alike that eg A and ? and ? that are identical
until you ferret out the details.

A language that allows this without some red flag is storing future grief for
unsuspecting programmers.

? Ironically upto R5RS version of scheme this was true
Thereafter Unix nerds have won over good old standard English practice


From thisisink01 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 10:41:43 2016
From: thisisink01 at gmail.com (Loop.IO)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 07:41:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <ndpmuo$4sq$1@dont-email.me>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
 <03c7da56-c752-460f-98b1-84b7166a2cc3@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpmuo$4sq$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <32c7ba6b-b61d-45fb-89a8-dd62aa09fe78@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 1:12:23 AM UTC+1, BartC wrote:
> On 02/04/2016 23:31, Loop.IO wrote:
> 
> > Oh i see, so the code prompts for a name.. so i'm more lost than i thought, what do I need to change to make it just create the file with the chosen name Launch2.bat without the prompt?
> 
> If you don't want the user to enter anything, then I explained how 
> before, just use:
> 
>       name='C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\launch2.bat'
> 
> if that's the file name you need.
> 
> -- 
> Bartc

Hi Bartc, i tried that, didn't work


From thisisink01 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 10:45:02 2016
From: thisisink01 at gmail.com (Loop.IO)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 07:45:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <mailman.383.1459642125.28225.python-list@python.org>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <18604420-d8ee-485a-96ef-bbda9a590201@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.383.1459642125.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d8537764-01d7-4149-9f75-481f099758c9@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 1:08:59 AM UTC+1, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 02/04/2016 23:23, Loop.IO wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 2, 2016 at 11:09:13 PM UTC+1, BartC wrote:
> >> On 02/04/2016 22:59, Loop.IO wrote:
> >>> Hey
> >>>
> >>> So I built a keylogger using python as a test, got the code from the tutorial online, I want to improve on it to make it more automated, but the issue I'm having is it won't create the file until I press return, any clues where I'm going wrong?
> >>>
> >>> If I press return it makes the batch file, otherwise it just hangs.
> >>
> >>>       name=raw_input ('C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\')+'launch2.bat'
> >>
> >> You're asking for a file name to be entered. So that if ABC is pressed,
> >> followed by Enter, it will use:
> >>
> >>         C:\Documents\PythonCoding\ABClaunch2.bat
> >>
> >> Assuming that's the intention, then Enter is needed so that it knows
> >> when the user has completed typing the name. If not, then just use:
> >>
> >>         name='C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\launch2.bat'
> >>
> >> (If you want a single character name, without pressing Enter, that's
> >> harder to do. Someone else will have to help.)
> >>
> >> --
> >> Bartc
> >
> > Hey Bartc
> >
> > I don't quite understand what you mean?
> >
> > The file is just supposed to be created, I don't want to have to press "Enter" or "Return" for it to complete the file creation
> >
> > the info i followed to create the file advised I had to add the file name and extension on after like in the code
> >
> 
> There is no point asking BartC about Python as he has repeatedly stated 
> that he knows nothing about Python.  OTOH there are loads of people here 
> who do know Python, backwards, sideways and inside out.  If you state 
> precisely what you are trying to achieve then you will get the correct 
> answer.
> 
> -- 
> My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
> what you can do for our language.
> 
> Mark Lawrence

Hi Mark

Basically I want the program to do the search, which it does fine, then create the batch file then close.

What I will be doing once thats fixed is then adding a write to the batch file some lines of code, which im already testing and seems to work fine, its just the having to press enter to create the file and then close the program


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 10:52:29 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 07:52:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <57005a7e$0$1589$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <57005a7e$0$1589$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4c5e7000-de47-49c2-bc3b-d7b23ed98625@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 5:19:33 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 03:12 am, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> 
> > Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> > 
> >> Steven D'Aprano :
> >>> So you're saying that learning to be a fluent speaker of English is a
> >>> pre-requisite of being a programmer?
> >> 
> >> No more than learning Latin is a prerequisite of being a doctor.
> > 
> > Full ACK.  Probably starting with the Industrial Revolution enabled by the
> > improvements of the steam machine in England, English has become the
> > /lingua franca/ of technology (even though the French often still
> > disagree, preferring words like << ordinateur >> and << octet >> over
> > "computer" and "byte", respectively?).  (With the Internet at the latest,
> > then, it has also become the /lingua franca/ of science, although Latin
> > terms are common in medicine.)
> 
> And this is a BAD THING. Monoculture is harmful, and science and technology
> is becoming a monoculture: Anglo-American language expressing
> Anglo-American ideas, regardless of the nationality of the scientist or
> engineer.

I think you are ending making the opposite point of what you seem to want to make
Yeah... ok monoculture is a bad thing.
Is python(3) helping towards a 'polyculture'?

To see this consider some app like Word or Gimp that has significant 
functionality and has a history over 20 years.

So let us say some 10 years ago it was internationalized.
This consists of 
1. Rewriting the 'strings' into gettext (or whatever) form along with other
program reorgs
2. Translators actually translating the 'strings'

Or take a modern OS like Windows or Ubuntu -- from the first install screen
we can pick a language and then it will be localized to that

To really localize python one would have to
1. Localize the keywords
2. Localize all module names
3. Localize all the help strings
4. Localize the entire stuff up at https://docs.python.org/3/
5. ...

That is probably one or two orders of magnitude more work than
localizing gimp or Word

So if this is the full goal how far does
"You can now spell (or misspell) your python identifiers in any language of your choice"
go towards that goal?


From anthony.uwaifo55 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 11:06:58 2016
From: anthony.uwaifo55 at gmail.com (anthony uwaifo)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 16:06:58 +0100
Subject: i cant seem to figure out the error
Message-ID: <CABMxrODHsfZuSUSWT1AkBDAUzC9U5=MheXQv01QOsTNiSE2a=w@mail.gmail.com>

hi everyone,

please i need help with this assignment. I have written a code and i still
get an error. please help me debug my code.

instructions:

   - Create a constructor that takes in an integer and assigns this to a
   `balance` property.
   - Create a method called `deposit` that takes in cash deposit amount and
   updates the balance accordingly.
   - Create a method called `withdraw` that takes in cash withdrawal amount
   and updates the balance accordingly. if amount is greater than balance
   return `"invalid transaction"`
   - Create a subclass MinimumBalanceAccount of the BankAccount class


My code:

class BankAccount(object):
  def __init__(self, balance):
    self.balance = balance


  def deposit(self, amount):
    self.amount=amount
    self.balance += amount
    return self.balance


  def withdraw(self, amount):
    self.amount=amount
    if(amount > self.balance):
      return ("Amount greater than available balance.")
    else:
  self.balance -= amount
    return self.balance



class MinimumBalanceAccount(BankAccount):
  def __init__(self, minimum_balance):
    BankAccount.__init__(self)
    self.minimum_balance = minimum_balance

act = BankAccount(5)
act.deposit(400)
act.withdraw(200)
print act.balance


error message:

THERE IS AN ERROR/BUG IN YOUR CODE*Results: *
{"finished": true, "success": [{"fullName": "test_balance",
"passedSpecNumber": 1}, {"fullName": "test_deposit",
"passedSpecNumber": 2}, {"fullName": "test_sub_class",
"passedSpecNumber": 3}, {"fullName": "test_withdraw",
"passedSpecNumber": 4}], "passed": false, "started": true, "failures":
[{"failedSpecNumber": 1, "fullName": "test_invalid_operation",
"failedExpectations": [{"message": "Failure in line 23, in
test_invalid_operation\n
self.assertEqual(self.my_account.withdraw(1000), \"invalid
transaction\", msg='Invalid transaction')\nAssertionError: Invalid
transaction\n"}]}], "specs": {"count": 5, "pendingCount": 0, "time":
"0.000079"}}
205


From bc at freeuk.com  Sun Apr  3 11:11:36 2016
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 16:11:36 +0100
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <32c7ba6b-b61d-45fb-89a8-dd62aa09fe78@googlegroups.com>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
 <03c7da56-c752-460f-98b1-84b7166a2cc3@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpmuo$4sq$1@dont-email.me>
 <32c7ba6b-b61d-45fb-89a8-dd62aa09fe78@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ndrbl5$u2r$1@dont-email.me>

On 03/04/2016 15:41, Loop.IO wrote:
> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 1:12:23 AM UTC+1, BartC wrote:
>> On 02/04/2016 23:31, Loop.IO wrote:
>>
>>> Oh i see, so the code prompts for a name.. so i'm more lost than i thought, what do I need to change to make it just create the file with the chosen name Launch2.bat without the prompt?
>>
>> If you don't want the user to enter anything, then I explained how
>> before, just use:
>>
>>        name='C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\launch2.bat'
>>
>> if that's the file name you need.
>>
>> --
>> Bartc
>
> Hi Bartc, i tried that, didn't work

You mean it gave an error when you tried to create that file?

Does that path already exist on your machine? If not then trying to 
create a file in a non-existent path won't work.

You can create the path manually outside of Python. Or look up the docs 
to find out how to do that. A quick google suggested using os.makedirs 
(to create multiple nested paths at the same time).

The following code worked on my machine:

import sys
import os

def create():
	print("creating new file")

	path="c:/Documents/PythonCoding/"
	name=path+"launch2.bat"

	try:
		os.stat(path)
	except:
		os.makedirs(path)

	print (name)

	try:
		file=open(name,'w')
		file.close()
	except:
		print("error occured")
		sys.exit(0)

create()

-- 
Bartc




From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 11:25:11 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 08:25:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <ndrbl5$u2r$1@dont-email.me>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
 <03c7da56-c752-460f-98b1-84b7166a2cc3@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpmuo$4sq$1@dont-email.me>
 <32c7ba6b-b61d-45fb-89a8-dd62aa09fe78@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrbl5$u2r$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <3596709a-c16d-401f-8ab3-70d0ab9dd9be@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 8:41:49 PM UTC+5:30, BartC wrote:
> On 03/04/2016 15:41, Loop.IO wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 1:12:23 AM UTC+1, BartC wrote:
> >> On 02/04/2016 23:31, Loop.IO wrote:
> >>
> >>> Oh i see, so the code prompts for a name.. so i'm more lost than i thought, what do I need to change to make it just create the file with the chosen name Launch2.bat without the prompt?
> >>
> >> If you don't want the user to enter anything, then I explained how
> >> before, just use:
> >>
> >>        name='C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\launch2.bat'
> >>
> >> if that's the file name you need.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Bartc
> >
> > Hi Bartc, i tried that, didn't work
> 
> You mean it gave an error when you tried to create that file?
> 
> Does that path already exist on your machine? If not then trying to 
> create a file in a non-existent path won't work.
> 
> You can create the path manually outside of Python. Or look up the docs 
> to find out how to do that. A quick google suggested using os.makedirs 
> (to create multiple nested paths at the same time).
> 
> The following code worked on my machine:
> 
> import sys
> import os
> 
> def create():
> 	print("creating new file")
> 
> 	path="c:/Documents/PythonCoding/"
> 	name=path+"launch2.bat"
> 
> 	try:
> 		os.stat(path)
> 	except:
> 		os.makedirs(path)
> 
> 	print (name)
> 
> 	try:
> 		file=open(name,'w')
> 		file.close()
> 	except:

If you dont want the vigilantes out in their squadrons please dont do it that way.

More seriously you can do what you like but dont teach beginners to use bare excepts.

Do
     except IOError  # I think... else whatever is the error you want to trap



From dan at tombstonezero.net  Sun Apr  3 11:25:29 2016
From: dan at tombstonezero.net (Dan Sommers)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 15:25:29 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ndrcl9$9va$1@dont-email.me>

On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 07:30:47 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:

> So here are some examples to illustrate what I am saying:

[A vs a, A vs A, ?ag vs flag, etc.]

Are identifiers text or bytes? or something else entirely that takes
natural language rules and the appearance of the glyphs into account?

I, for one, am very happy that identifiers are more like bytes than like
they are like text.  The rules for equality for sequences of bytes are
well-defined and unambiguous.  The rules for equality for text are not.
Do I have to know the details of every human (and some non-human)
language, not to mention their typographical conventions (e.g.,
ligatures) just to determine whether two identifiers are the same?

Yes, it's marginally annoying, and a security hole waiting to happen,
than A and A often look very much alike.  It's also troubling that I, a
native English speaker with some knowledge of a random selection of
other languages, should know whether e and ? are the same, or whether ij
and ? are the same, and that it might depend on the fonts that happen to
have been used to render them.

And where does it end?  If ?ag and flag are the same, then are Omega and
? the same?

In English (and many other languages), it is wrong to spell my first
name with an initial lower case letter.  Therefore, Dan and dan are not,
and should not be, the same identifier.

ObPython:  if my identifiers are case-insensitive, then what about the
language's keywords?  Can I spell class and for as Class and For?

I understand that in some use cases, ?ag and flag represent the same
English word, but please don't extend that to identifiers in my
software.

Dan


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 11:39:02 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 08:39:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <ndrcl9$9va$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrcl9$9va$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <33b043f4-b68e-4346-8e47-029815ab1204@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 8:58:59 PM UTC+5:30, Dan Sommers wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 07:30:47 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
> 
> > So here are some examples to illustrate what I am saying:
> 
> [A vs a, A vs A, ?ag vs flag, etc.]
<snip>
> I understand that in some use cases, ?ag and flag represent the same
> English word, but please don't extend that to identifiers in my
> software.

I wonder once again if you are getting my point opposite to the one I am making.
With ASCII there were problems like O vs 0 -- niggling but small.

With Unicode its a gigantic pandora box.
Python by allowing unicode identifiers without restraint has made grief for
unsuspecting programmers.

That is why my original suggestion that there should have been alongside this
'brave new world', a pragma wherein a programmer can EXPLICITLY declare
#language Greek
Then he is knowingly opting into possible clashes between A and ?
But not between A and ?.

[And if you think the above is a philosophical disquisition on Aristotle's
law of identity: "A is A" you just proved my point that unconstrained Unicode
identifiers is a mess]


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 11:46:59 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 08:46:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <ndrcl9$9va$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrcl9$9va$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <a3abadcc-a9f9-49ea-b395-15e1c32c9618@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 8:58:59 PM UTC+5:30, Dan Sommers wrote:
> Yes, it's marginally annoying, and a security hole waiting to happen,
> that A and A often look very much alike.


"A security hole waiting to happen" = "Marginally annoying"

Frankly I find this juxtaposition alarming

Personal note: I once was idiot enough to have root with password root123
and transferring some files to a friend ... over ssh...
Lost my entire installation in a matter of minutes


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 11:53:41 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 01:53:41 +1000
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <a3abadcc-a9f9-49ea-b395-15e1c32c9618@googlegroups.com>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrcl9$9va$1@dont-email.me>
 <a3abadcc-a9f9-49ea-b395-15e1c32c9618@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrQTuPAfWPpZAr1Y84LfaRCN+EAcE+HdyzBpcF-Ky9uwQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 1:46 AM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 8:58:59 PM UTC+5:30, Dan Sommers wrote:
>> Yes, it's marginally annoying, and a security hole waiting to happen,
>> that A and A often look very much alike.
>
>
> "A security hole waiting to happen" = "Marginally annoying"
>
> Frankly I find this juxtaposition alarming
>
> Personal note: I once was idiot enough to have root with password root123
> and transferring some files to a friend ... over ssh...
> Lost my entire installation in a matter of minutes

Exactly why did you have root ssh access with a password?

ChrisA


From larry.martell at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 11:55:41 2016
From: larry.martell at gmail.com (Larry Martell)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 11:55:41 -0400
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <a3abadcc-a9f9-49ea-b395-15e1c32c9618@googlegroups.com>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrcl9$9va$1@dont-email.me>
 <a3abadcc-a9f9-49ea-b395-15e1c32c9618@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CACwCsY7HC86vDD2pRzgK+XNGrbuHOfm9xa6LFsPuHx8Me72fEw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 11:46 AM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> Personal note: I once was idiot enough to have root with password root123

I changed my password to "incorrect," so whenever I forget it the
computer will say, "Your password is incorrect."


From bc at freeuk.com  Sun Apr  3 12:04:24 2016
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 17:04:24 +0100
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <3596709a-c16d-401f-8ab3-70d0ab9dd9be@googlegroups.com>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
 <03c7da56-c752-460f-98b1-84b7166a2cc3@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpmuo$4sq$1@dont-email.me>
 <32c7ba6b-b61d-45fb-89a8-dd62aa09fe78@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrbl5$u2r$1@dont-email.me>
 <3596709a-c16d-401f-8ab3-70d0ab9dd9be@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ndreo4$9l6$1@dont-email.me>

On 03/04/2016 16:25, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 8:41:49 PM UTC+5:30, BartC wrote:

>> You can create the path manually outside of Python. Or look up the docs
>> to find out how to do that. A quick google suggested using os.makedirs
>> (to create multiple nested paths at the same time).

>> 	try:
>> 		os.stat(path)
>> 	except:
>> 		os.makedirs(path)
>>
>> 	print (name)
>>
>> 	try:
>> 		file=open(name,'w')
>> 		file.close()
>> 	except:
>
> If you dont want the vigilantes out in their squadrons please dont do it that way.
>
> More seriously you can do what you like but dont teach beginners to use bare excepts.

They're not mine (the first is from the first google hit, the second is 
the OP's); if it was my choice I wouldn't use exceptions at all.

But the primary issue here is that file not being created. Once the code 
works, it can be tweaked later and, if the path still needs creating 
from the code, there are doubtless better ways of doing it, with or 
without exceptions.

At the minute we don't even know if this was the problem.

-- 
Bartc


From dan at tombstonezero.net  Sun Apr  3 12:07:42 2016
From: dan at tombstonezero.net (Dan Sommers)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 16:07:42 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrcl9$9va$1@dont-email.me>
 <a3abadcc-a9f9-49ea-b395-15e1c32c9618@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ndrf4e$9va$2@dont-email.me>

On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 08:46:59 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:

> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 8:58:59 PM UTC+5:30, Dan Sommers wrote:
>> Yes, it's marginally annoying, and a security hole waiting to happen,
>> that A and A often look very much alike.
> 
> "A security hole waiting to happen" = "Marginally annoying"
> 
> Frankly I find this juxtaposition alarming

Sorry about that.

I didn't mean to equate the two.  I meant to point out that the fact
that A and A look alike can be one, or both, of those things.  Perhaps I
should have used "or" instead of "and."


From dan at tombstonezero.net  Sun Apr  3 12:22:55 2016
From: dan at tombstonezero.net (Dan Sommers)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 16:22:55 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrcl9$9va$1@dont-email.me>
 <33b043f4-b68e-4346-8e47-029815ab1204@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ndrg0v$9va$3@dont-email.me>

On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 08:39:02 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:

> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 8:58:59 PM UTC+5:30, Dan Sommers wrote:
>> On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 07:30:47 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
>> 
>> > So here are some examples to illustrate what I am saying:
>> 
>> [A vs a, A vs A, ?ag vs flag, etc.]
> <snip>
>> I understand that in some use cases, ?ag and flag represent the same
>> English word, but please don't extend that to identifiers in my
>> software.

> I wonder once again if you are getting my point opposite to the one I
> am making.  With ASCII there were problems like O vs 0 -- niggling but
> small.
> 
> With Unicode its a gigantic pandora box.  Python by allowing unicode
> identifiers without restraint has made grief for unsuspecting
> programmers.

What about the A vs a case, which comes up even with ASCII-only
characters?  If those are the same, then I, as a reader of Python code,
have to understand all the rules about ? (which I think have changed
over time), and potentially ? and others.

> That is why my original suggestion that there should have been alongside this
> 'brave new world', a pragma wherein a programmer can EXPLICITLY declare
> #language Greek
> Then he is knowingly opting into possible clashes between A and ?
> But not between A and ?.

If I declared #language Greek, then I'd expect an identifier like A to
be rejected by the compiler.  That said, I don't know if that sort of
distinction is as clear cut in every language supported by Unicode.

And just to cause trouble (because that's the way I feel today), can I
declare

#?????? ????????

;-)

> [And if you think the above is a philosophical disquisition on
> Aristotle's law of identity: "A is A" you just proved my point that
> unconstrained Unicode identifiers is a mess]

Can we take a "we're all adults here" approach?  For the same reason
that adults don't use identifiers like xl0, x10, xlO, and xl0 anywhere
near each other, shouldn't we also not use A and A anywhere near each
other?  I certainly don't want the language itself to [try to] reject
x10 and xIO because they look too much alike in many fonts.


From okuntsov.mikhail at yandex.ru  Sun Apr  3 12:24:41 2016
From: okuntsov.mikhail at yandex.ru (Michael Okuntsov)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 22:24:41 +0600
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <4c5e7000-de47-49c2-bc3b-d7b23ed98625@googlegroups.com>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <57005a7e$0$1589$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <4c5e7000-de47-49c2-bc3b-d7b23ed98625@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ndrfu5$e7n$1@dont-email.me>

03.04.2016 20:52, Rustom Mody ?????:

> To really localize python one would have to
> 1. Localize the keywords
> 2. Localize all module names
> 3. Localize all the help strings
> 4. Localize the entire stuff up at https://docs.python.org/3/
> 5. ...
>
> That is probably one or two orders of magnitude more work than
> localizing gimp or Word
>
> So if this is the full goal how far does
> "You can now spell (or misspell) your python identifiers in any language of your choice"
> go towards that goal?
>

As an OP, can I participate in the discussion? Here in Russia we have a 
monstrous bookkeeping system called 1C-Predpriyatiye that is used by 
almost all firms and organizations, from kiosks to huge factories. This 
system has a Basic-like language with keywords, module names etc. 
localized in Russian language, but it has also English, German, and 
Ukrainian localizations. I don't want to say that common programming 
languages should be like this, but here we have an example that it can 
be done.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Sun Apr  3 12:28:19 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 09:28:19 -0700
Subject: Strange range
In-Reply-To: <87shz3p4a5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1671ea2b-09ff-4745-a6e7-d2c57864cba3@googlegroups.com>
 <87zitbpwpr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.375.1459631138.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87vb3zpu49.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.391.1459665795.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87shz3p4a5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <570144A3.2040701@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/02/2016 11:58 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Stephen Hansen <me+python at ixokai.io>:
>
>> On Sat, Apr 2, 2016, at 02:40 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>> That's why I was looking for counterexamples in the standard library
>>
>> This entire bent of an argument seems flawed to me.
>>
>> The standard library has never been a beacon for best practices or
>> idiomatic uses of Python.
>
> It's an obvious corpus of Python code not written by me that's readily
> available on my computer. An argument was made that range() has varied
> uses. I was trying to find those varied uses.

Which is fine, but failing to find them is insignificant.


>> Most code exists outside the stdlib.
>
> Which should then make it easy for you to point out the kinds of
> counterexamples I was looking for.

I'm pretty sure that 99+% of the non-stdlib code out there is also 
completely inaccessible (or at least inconveniently accessible) to 
Stephen as well.

Besides which, the amount of extra effort someone else is willing to go 
to to prove something is directly related to the interestingness of the 
topic -- and the various uses of range() isn't that interesting (it 
would be more interesting if a PEP was on the line...) .

--
~Ethan~



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 12:28:20 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 02:28:20 +1000
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <ndrfu5$e7n$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <57005a7e$0$1589$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <4c5e7000-de47-49c2-bc3b-d7b23ed98625@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrfu5$e7n$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqZCByuFeQBxHoqGDa6ELPzraC10y4g0Ac-AYjg8BayCw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 2:24 AM, Michael Okuntsov
<okuntsov.mikhail at yandex.ru> wrote:
> As an OP, can I participate in the discussion? Here in Russia we have a
> monstrous bookkeeping system called 1C-Predpriyatiye that is used by almost
> all firms and organizations, from kiosks to huge factories. This system has
> a Basic-like language with keywords, module names etc. localized in Russian
> language, but it has also English, German, and Ukrainian localizations. I
> don't want to say that common programming languages should be like this, but
> here we have an example that it can be done.

Absolutely you can participate! And thank you. That's exactly the sort
of thing I'm talking about; you should be able to script that in
Russian if your business is primarily Russian.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 12:44:16 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 02:44:16 +1000
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <ndrg0v$9va$3@dont-email.me>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
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 <ndrcl9$9va$1@dont-email.me>
 <33b043f4-b68e-4346-8e47-029815ab1204@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrg0v$9va$3@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq-dtHY+TufzD7KghwShP5iu445Xoo2xaxjM06w4aLFDQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 2:22 AM, Dan Sommers <dan at tombstonezero.net> wrote:
> What about the A vs a case, which comes up even with ASCII-only
> characters?  If those are the same, then I, as a reader of Python code,
> have to understand all the rules about ? (which I think have changed
> over time), and potentially ? and others.

And I??i, and ???, and (if you want completeness) ? too. And various
other case conversion rules. It's not possible to case-fold perfectly
without knowing what language something is.

This, coupled with the extremely useful case distinction between
"Classes" and "instances", means I'm very much glad Python is case
sensitive. "base = Base()" is perfectly legal and meaningful, no
matter what language you translate those words into (well, as long as
it's bicameral - otherwise you need to adorn one of them somehow, but
you'd have to anyway).

ChrisA


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 12:49:03 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 09:49:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.396.1459699225.28225.python-list@python.org>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrcl9$9va$1@dont-email.me>
 <a3abadcc-a9f9-49ea-b395-15e1c32c9618@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.396.1459699225.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ba4e0e23-c12a-4d51-8a86-17b3b7e19eef@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 9:30:40 PM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Exactly why did you have root ssh access with a password?

Umm... Dont exactly remember.
Probably it was not strictly necessary.
Combination of carelessness, stupidity, hurry....

Brings me to...

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 9:41:11 PM UTC+5:30, Dan Sommers wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 08:46:59 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
> 
> > On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 8:58:59 PM UTC+5:30, Dan Sommers wrote:
> >> Yes, it's marginally annoying, and a security hole waiting to happen,
> >> that A and A often look very much alike.
> > 
> > "A security hole waiting to happen" = "Marginally annoying"
> > 
> > Frankly I find this juxtaposition alarming
> 
> Sorry about that.
> 
> I didn't mean to equate the two.  I meant to point out that the fact
> that A and A look alike can be one, or both, of those things.  Perhaps I
> should have used "or" instead of "and."

Chill! No offence.

Just that when you have the above ingredients (carelessness, stupidity, hurry....) multiplied by a GHz clock, it makes for spicy security
incidents(!).

I just meant to say that "Just a lil security incident" is not a helpful attitude to foster


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 13:18:45 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 10:18:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <ndrg0v$9va$3@dont-email.me>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrcl9$9va$1@dont-email.me>
 <33b043f4-b68e-4346-8e47-029815ab1204@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrg0v$9va$3@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <257887ea-df88-4229-b045-57d50b7e60b1@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 9:56:24 PM UTC+5:30, Dan Sommers wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 08:39:02 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
> 
> > On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 8:58:59 PM UTC+5:30, Dan Sommers wrote:
> >> On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 07:30:47 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
> >> 
> >> > So here are some examples to illustrate what I am saying:
> >> 
> >> [A vs a, A vs A, ?ag vs flag, etc.]
> > <snip>
> >> I understand that in some use cases, ?ag and flag represent the same
> >> English word, but please don't extend that to identifiers in my
> >> software.
> 
> > I wonder once again if you are getting my point opposite to the one I
> > am making.  With ASCII there were problems like O vs 0 -- niggling but
> > small.
> > 
> > With Unicode its a gigantic pandora box.  Python by allowing unicode
> > identifiers without restraint has made grief for unsuspecting
> > programmers.
> 
> What about the A vs a case, which comes up even with ASCII-only
> characters?  If those are the same, then I, as a reader of Python code,
> have to understand all the rules about ? (which I think have changed
> over time), and potentially ? and others.

Dont get your point.
If you know German then these rules should be clear enough to you
If not youve probably got bigger problems reading that code anyway

As illustration, here is Marko's code few posts back:

for oppilas in luokka:
        if oppilas.hyl?tty():
            oppilas.ilmoita(oppilas.koetulokset) 

Does it make sense to you?

> 
> > That is why my original suggestion that there should have been alongside this
> > 'brave new world', a pragma wherein a programmer can EXPLICITLY declare
> > #language Greek
> > Then he is knowingly opting into possible clashes between A and ?
> > But not between A and ?.
> 
> If I declared #language Greek, then I'd expect an identifier like A to
> be rejected by the compiler.  That said, I don't know if that sort of
> distinction is as clear cut in every language supported by Unicode.
> 
> And just to cause trouble (because that's the way I feel today), can I
> declare
> 
> #?????? ????????
> 
> ;-)
> 
> > [And if you think the above is a philosophical disquisition on
> > Aristotle's law of identity: "A is A" you just proved my point that
> > unconstrained Unicode identifiers is a mess]
> 
> Can we take a "we're all adults here" approach?

Who's the 'we' we are talking about?

> For the same reason
> that adults don't use identifiers like xl0, x10, xlO, and xl0 anywhere
> near each other, shouldn't we also not use A and A anywhere near each
> other?  I certainly don't want the language itself to [try to] reject
> x10 and xIO because they look too much alike in many fonts.

When Kernighan and Ritchie wrote C there was no problem with gets.
Then suddenly, decades later the problem exploded.

What happened?

Here's an analysis:
Security means two almost completely unrelated concepts
- protection against shooting oneself in the foot (remember the 'protected' 
   keyword of C++ ?)
- protection against intelligent, capable, motivated criminals
Lets call them security-s (against stupidity) and security-c (against criminals)

Security-c didnt figure because computers were anyway physically secured and 
there was no much internet to speak of.
gets was provided exactly on your principle of 'consenting-adults' -- if you
use it you know what you are using.

Then suddenly computers became net-facing and their servers could be written by
'consenting' (to whom?) adults using gets.

Voila -- Security has just become a lucrative profession!

I believe python's situation of laissez-faire unicode is similarly trouble-inviting.

While I personally dont know enough about security to be able to demonstrate a
full sequence of events, here's a little fun I had with Chris:

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2014-May/672413.html

Do you not think this could be tailored into something more sinister and
dangerous?


From jsf80238 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 13:34:52 2016
From: jsf80238 at gmail.com (Jason Friedman)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 11:34:52 -0600
Subject: i cant seem to figure out the error
In-Reply-To: <CABMxrODHsfZuSUSWT1AkBDAUzC9U5=MheXQv01QOsTNiSE2a=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABMxrODHsfZuSUSWT1AkBDAUzC9U5=MheXQv01QOsTNiSE2a=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANy1k1gCtp0vQ+iixB5P6k4tMweDg-E2wL4BXvzH9XOivC=1HQ@mail.gmail.com>

>
>    - Create a method called `withdraw` that takes in cash withdrawal amount
>    and updates the balance accordingly. if amount is greater than balance
>    return `"invalid transaction"`
>
>   def withdraw(self, amount):
>     self.amount=amount
>     if(amount > self.balance):
>       return ("Amount greater than available balance.")
>     else:
>   self.balance -= amount
>     return self.balance
>

The instructions say to "return 'invalid transaction'" but I expect they
really want that error printed to STDERR (typically your screen) rather
than literally returned.  Try this:

  def withdraw(self, amount):
    self.amount=amount
    if(amount > self.balance):
      print "Amount greater than available balance, no funds withdrawn."
    else:
      self.balance -= amount
    return self.balance


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 13:35:57 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 03:35:57 +1000
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <257887ea-df88-4229-b045-57d50b7e60b1@googlegroups.com>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrcl9$9va$1@dont-email.me>
 <33b043f4-b68e-4346-8e47-029815ab1204@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrg0v$9va$3@dont-email.me>
 <257887ea-df88-4229-b045-57d50b7e60b1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoFwn_gRwYT_ONqf4D5-SgpDw7YzhVvNrRa5M7NB2w=QQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 3:18 AM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> While I personally dont know enough about security to be able to demonstrate a
> full sequence of events, here's a little fun I had with Chris:
>
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2014-May/672413.html
>
> Do you not think this could be tailored into something more sinister and
> dangerous?

I honestly don't know what you're proving there. You didn't import a
file called "1.py"; you just created a file with a non-ASCII name and
used a non-ASCII identifier to import it. In other words, you did
exactly what Unicode should allow: names in any language.

ChrisA


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Apr  3 13:36:43 2016
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 18:36:43 +0100
Subject: i cant seem to figure out the error
In-Reply-To: <CABMxrODHsfZuSUSWT1AkBDAUzC9U5=MheXQv01QOsTNiSE2a=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABMxrODHsfZuSUSWT1AkBDAUzC9U5=MheXQv01QOsTNiSE2a=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <570154AB.4090009@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-03 16:06, anthony uwaifo wrote:
> hi everyone,
>
> please i need help with this assignment. I have written a code and i still
> get an error. please help me debug my code.
>
> instructions:
>
>     - Create a constructor that takes in an integer and assigns this to a
>     `balance` property.
>     - Create a method called `deposit` that takes in cash deposit amount and
>     updates the balance accordingly.
>     - Create a method called `withdraw` that takes in cash withdrawal amount
>     and updates the balance accordingly. if amount is greater than balance
>     return `"invalid transaction"`
>     - Create a subclass MinimumBalanceAccount of the BankAccount class
>
>
> My code:
>
> class BankAccount(object):
>    def __init__(self, balance):
>      self.balance = balance
>
>
>    def deposit(self, amount):
>      self.amount=amount
>      self.balance += amount
>      return self.balance
>
>
>    def withdraw(self, amount):
>      self.amount=amount
>      if(amount > self.balance):
>        return ("Amount greater than available balance.")
>      else:
>    self.balance -= amount
>      return self.balance
>
>
>
> class MinimumBalanceAccount(BankAccount):
>    def __init__(self, minimum_balance):
>      BankAccount.__init__(self)
>      self.minimum_balance = minimum_balance
>
> act = BankAccount(5)
> act.deposit(400)
> act.withdraw(200)
> print act.balance
>
>
> error message:
>
> THERE IS AN ERROR/BUG IN YOUR CODE*Results: *
> {"finished": true, "success": [{"fullName": "test_balance",
> "passedSpecNumber": 1}, {"fullName": "test_deposit",
> "passedSpecNumber": 2}, {"fullName": "test_sub_class",
> "passedSpecNumber": 3}, {"fullName": "test_withdraw",
> "passedSpecNumber": 4}], "passed": false, "started": true, "failures":
> [{"failedSpecNumber": 1, "fullName": "test_invalid_operation",
> "failedExpectations": [{"message": "Failure in line 23, in
> test_invalid_operation\n
> self.assertEqual(self.my_account.withdraw(1000), \"invalid
> transaction\", msg='Invalid transaction')\nAssertionError: Invalid
> transaction\n"}]}], "specs": {"count": 5, "pendingCount": 0, "time":
> "0.000079"}}
> 205
>
What do the instructions say that `withdraw` should return if the amount 
is greater than the balance?

What would your code return in such a case?



From jsf80238 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 13:37:09 2016
From: jsf80238 at gmail.com (Jason Friedman)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 11:37:09 -0600
Subject: i cant seem to figure out the error
In-Reply-To: <CABMxrODHsfZuSUSWT1AkBDAUzC9U5=MheXQv01QOsTNiSE2a=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABMxrODHsfZuSUSWT1AkBDAUzC9U5=MheXQv01QOsTNiSE2a=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANy1k1jLy-87yhxh+Br6YxHjDzcbXYQzZ_SyjqJN6oDy_p8OSQ@mail.gmail.com>

>   def deposit(self, amount):
>     self.amount=amount
>     self.balance += amount
>     return self.balance
>
>
>   def withdraw(self, amount):
>     self.amount=amount
>     if(amount > self.balance):
>       return ("Amount greater than available balance.")
>     else:
>   self.balance -= amount
>     return self.balance

Also, this line is not needed in the deposit and withdraw methods:

self.amount=amount


From pkpearson at nowhere.invalid  Sun Apr  3 14:18:10 2016
From: pkpearson at nowhere.invalid (Peter Pearson)
Date: 3 Apr 2016 18:18:10 GMT
Subject: i cant seem to figure out the error
References: <mailman.397.1459700384.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dmd531F7441U1@mid.individual.net>

On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 16:06:58 +0100, anthony uwaifo wrote:
[snip]
>
> class BankAccount(object):
>   def __init__(self, balance):
>     self.balance = balance
>
>
>   def deposit(self, amount):
>     self.amount=amount
>     self.balance += amount
>     return self.balance
>
>
>   def withdraw(self, amount):
>     self.amount=amount
>     if(amount > self.balance):
>       return ("Amount greater than available balance.")
>     else:
>   self.balance -= amount
>     return self.balance
>
>
>
> class MinimumBalanceAccount(BankAccount):
>   def __init__(self, minimum_balance):
>     BankAccount.__init__(self)
>     self.minimum_balance = minimum_balance
>
> act = BankAccount(5)
> act.deposit(400)
> act.withdraw(200)
> print act.balance

There is an indentation error following the "else:" line.  After
I fixed that, the program runs and prints "205" (under Python 2.7.3).

-- 
To email me, substitute nowhere->runbox, invalid->com.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Apr  3 14:21:45 2016
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 19:21:45 +0100
Subject: i cant seem to figure out the error
In-Reply-To: <CANy1k1gCtp0vQ+iixB5P6k4tMweDg-E2wL4BXvzH9XOivC=1HQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABMxrODHsfZuSUSWT1AkBDAUzC9U5=MheXQv01QOsTNiSE2a=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANy1k1gCtp0vQ+iixB5P6k4tMweDg-E2wL4BXvzH9XOivC=1HQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57015F39.1090305@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-03 18:34, Jason Friedman wrote:
>>
>>    - Create a method called `withdraw` that takes in cash withdrawal amount
>>    and updates the balance accordingly. if amount is greater than balance
>>    return `"invalid transaction"`
>>
>>   def withdraw(self, amount):
>>     self.amount=amount
>>     if(amount > self.balance):
>>       return ("Amount greater than available balance.")
>>     else:
>>   self.balance -= amount
>>     return self.balance
>>
>
> The instructions say to "return 'invalid transaction'" but I expect they
> really want that error printed to STDERR (typically your screen) rather
> than literally returned.  Try this:
>
>    def withdraw(self, amount):
>      self.amount=amount
>      if(amount > self.balance):
>        print "Amount greater than available balance, no funds withdrawn."
>      else:
>        self.balance -= amount
>      return self.balance
>
The instructions say "return", not "print" and the report contains:

self.assertEqual(self.my_account.withdraw(1000), "invalid transaction", 
msg='Invalid transaction')

so it _is_ checking the returned result of 'withdraw'.

Not Pythonic (neither is printing to stderr! :-)), but that's something 
that can be worked on later.



From dan at tombstonezero.net  Sun Apr  3 14:26:48 2016
From: dan at tombstonezero.net (Dan Sommers)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 18:26:48 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrcl9$9va$1@dont-email.me>
 <33b043f4-b68e-4346-8e47-029815ab1204@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrg0v$9va$3@dont-email.me>
 <257887ea-df88-4229-b045-57d50b7e60b1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ndrn97$9va$4@dont-email.me>

On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 10:18:45 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:

> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 9:56:24 PM UTC+5:30, Dan Sommers wrote:
>> On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 08:39:02 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
>> 
>> > On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 8:58:59 PM UTC+5:30, Dan Sommers wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 07:30:47 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> > So here are some examples to illustrate what I am saying:
>> >> 
>> >> [A vs a, A vs A, ?ag vs flag, etc.]
>> > <snip>
>> >> I understand that in some use cases, ?ag and flag represent the same
>> >> English word, but please don't extend that to identifiers in my
>> >> software.
>> 
>> > I wonder once again if you are getting my point opposite to the one I
>> > am making.  With ASCII there were problems like O vs 0 -- niggling but
>> > small.
>> > 
>> > With Unicode its a gigantic pandora box.  Python by allowing unicode
>> > identifiers without restraint has made grief for unsuspecting
>> > programmers.
>> 
>> What about the A vs a case, which comes up even with ASCII-only
>> characters?  If those are the same, then I, as a reader of Python code,
>> have to understand all the rules about ? (which I think have changed
>> over time), and potentially ? and others.
> 
> Dont get your point.
> If you know German then these rules should be clear enough to you
> If not youve probably got bigger problems reading that code anyway

My point is that case sensitivity is good.  I was disagreeing with your
point about scheme getting A vs a "right" and Python and C and Unix
getting it "wrong."

My larger point, and my experience, is that case sensitivity is easier
for to handle than case insensitivity.  Most of the time, the same
letter's capital and small renditions look different from each other (A
vs a, Q vs q, and even ? and ? is no worse than O and o), and there are
no context sensitive conversion rules to worry about.

> As illustration, here is Marko's code few posts back:
> 
> for oppilas in luokka:
>         if oppilas.hyl?tty():
>             oppilas.ilmoita(oppilas.koetulokset) 
> 
> Does it make sense to you?

It makes enough sense to recognize the idiom:  for each item in a
collection that satisfies a predicate, call a method on the item.

My point here is that while the identifiers themselves can be enormously
helpful to someone seeing a block of code for the first time or
maintaining it five years later, it's just as important to recognize
quickly that one identifier is not the same as another one, or that a
particular identifier only appears once or only in certain syntactical
constructs.

If the above code were written a little differently, we'd be having a
completely different discussion:

    for list in object:
        if list.clear():
            list.pop(list.append)

>> Can we take a "we're all adults here" approach?
> 
> Who's the 'we' we are talking about?

The community, who has accepted Python as a case-sensitive language and
knows better than to use identifiers that look too much alike or are
otherwise deliberatly mis-leading.

>> For the same reason
>> that adults don't use identifiers like xl0, x10, xlO, and xl0 anywhere
>> near each other, shouldn't we also not use A and A anywhere near each
>> other?  I certainly don't want the language itself to [try to] reject
>> x10 and xIO because they look too much alike in many fonts.
> 
> When Kernighan and Ritchie wrote C there was no problem with gets.
> Then suddenly, decades later the problem exploded.

When Kernighan and Ritchie wrote C there *was* a problem with gets.

> What happened?

The problem was no longer isolated to taking down one Unix process or a
single machine, or discovering passwords on that one machine.

> Here's an analysis:
> Security means two almost completely unrelated concepts
> - protection against shooting oneself in the foot (remember the 'protected' 
>    keyword of C++ ?)
> - protection against intelligent, capable, motivated criminals
> Lets call them security-s (against stupidity) and security-c (against criminals)
> 
> Security-c didnt figure because computers were anyway physically secured and 
> there was no much internet to speak of.
> gets was provided exactly on your principle of 'consenting-adults' -- if you
> use it you know what you are using.
> 
> Then suddenly computers became net-facing and their servers could be
> written by 'consenting' (to whom?) adults using gets.
> 
> Voila -- Security has just become a lucrative profession!

I can't prevent insecure web servers, or unknowing users.  Allowing or
disallowing A and A and ? to coexist in the source code doesn't matter.

> I believe python's situation of laissez-faire unicode is similarly
> trouble-inviting.

I'm not sure I agree, but I didn't timing attacks on cryptographic
algorithms or devices reading passwords from air-gapped computers
coming, either.

I do know that complexity is also a source of bugs and security risks.
Allowing or disallowing certain unicode code points in identifiers, and
declaring that identifiers consisting of the same sequence of code
points are the same, is way less complex than getting something else
(even something as "simple" as case-insensitivity) right for all cases.

> While I personally dont know enough about security to be able to demonstrate a
> full sequence of events, here's a little fun I had with Chris:
> 
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2014-May/672413.html
> 
> Do you not think this could be tailored into something more sinister and
> dangerous?


From nospam at dfs.com  Sun Apr  3 14:30:00 2016
From: nospam at dfs.com (DFS)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 14:30:00 -0400
Subject: Sorting a list
Message-ID: <ndrn97$bco$1@dont-email.me>

cntText = 60
cntBool = 20
cntNbrs = 30
cntDate = 20
cntBins = 20

strText = "  text:     "
strBool = "  boolean:  "
strNbrs = "  numeric:  "
strDate = "  date-time:"
strBins = "  binary:   "

colCounts = [(cntText,strText) , (cntBool,strBool), (cntNbrs,strNbrs) , 
(cntDate,strDate) , (cntBins,strBins)]

# sort by alpha, then by column type count descending
colCounts.sort(key=lambda x: x[1])
colCounts.sort(key=lambda x: x[0], reverse=True)
for key in colCounts: print key[1], key[0]]

-------------------------------------------------

Output (which is exactly what I want):

   text:      60
   numeric:   30
   binary:    20
   boolean:   20
   date-time: 20

-------------------------------------------------


But, is there a 1-line way to sort and print?


Thanks!





From dan at tombstonezero.net  Sun Apr  3 14:32:26 2016
From: dan at tombstonezero.net (Dan Sommers)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 18:32:26 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrcl9$9va$1@dont-email.me>
 <a3abadcc-a9f9-49ea-b395-15e1c32c9618@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.396.1459699225.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <ba4e0e23-c12a-4d51-8a86-17b3b7e19eef@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ndrnjp$9va$5@dont-email.me>

On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 09:49:03 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:

> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 9:41:11 PM UTC+5:30, Dan Sommers wrote:
>> On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 08:46:59 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
>> 
>> > On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 8:58:59 PM UTC+5:30, Dan Sommers wrote:
>> >> Yes, it's marginally annoying, and a security hole waiting to happen,
>> >> that A and A often look very much alike.
>> > 
>> > "A security hole waiting to happen" = "Marginally annoying"
>> > 
>> > Frankly I find this juxtaposition alarming
>> 
>> Sorry about that.
>> 
>> I didn't mean to equate the two.  I meant to point out that the fact
>> that A and A look alike can be one, or both, of those things.  Perhaps I
>> should have used "or" instead of "and."
> 
> Chill! No offence.

I'm chilled.  :-)

No offense taken.  I am arguably overly sensitive to putting forth an
argument that isn't clear and concise (because I've also been known to
derail the proceedings until I can get my head around someone else's
argument).

> Just that when you have the above ingredients (carelessness,
> stupidity, hurry....) multiplied by a GHz clock, it makes for spicy
> security incidents(!).  I just meant to say that "Just a lil security
> incident" is not a helpful attitude to foster

On this we agree.  :-)


From nospam at dfs.com  Sun Apr  3 14:34:44 2016
From: nospam at dfs.com (DFS)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 14:34:44 -0400
Subject: Sorting a list
In-Reply-To: <ndrn97$bco$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ndrn97$bco$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ndrni3$c4b$1@dont-email.me>

On 4/3/2016 2:30 PM, DFS wrote:
> cntText = 60
> cntBool = 20
> cntNbrs = 30
> cntDate = 20
> cntBins = 20
>
> strText = "  text:     "
> strBool = "  boolean:  "
> strNbrs = "  numeric:  "
> strDate = "  date-time:"
> strBins = "  binary:   "
>
> colCounts = [(cntText,strText) , (cntBool,strBool), (cntNbrs,strNbrs) ,
> (cntDate,strDate) , (cntBins,strBins)]
>
> # sort by alpha, then by column type count descending
> colCounts.sort(key=lambda x: x[1])
> colCounts.sort(key=lambda x: x[0], reverse=True)
> for key in colCounts: print key[1], key[0]]
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> Output (which is exactly what I want):
>
>    text:      60
>    numeric:   30
>    binary:    20
>    boolean:   20
>    date-time: 20
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
> But, is there a 1-line way to sort and print?

Meant to include this example:

print {i:os.strerror(i) for i in sorted(errno.errorcode)}



> Thanks!
>
>
>



From muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 14:57:05 2016
From: muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com (Muhammad Ali)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 11:57:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PyQt4
Message-ID: <b9ad8b64-b6a9-49df-8085-2d7afd2a406f@googlegroups.com>


Hi,

How can we confirm that either  PyQt4 is already installed on LInux machine or not?

Please suggest commands to confirm the already existence of  PyQt4 in the machine.

Thank you.


From muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 15:01:48 2016
From: muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com (Muhammad Ali)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 12:01:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Plot/Graph
Message-ID: <768f1e2e-baab-4ce3-ae4e-aab2d8ac5bf8@googlegroups.com>


Hi,

Could anybody tell me that how can I plot graphs by matplotlib and get expertise in a short time? I have to plot 2D plots just like origin software. 

Secondly, how could we draw some horizontal reference line at zero when the vertical scale is from -3 to 3? 

Looking for your posts, please.

Thank you.

p.s: Is there any short and to the point text book/manual/pdf to learn 2D plotting with matplotlib?


From torriem at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 15:14:45 2016
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 13:14:45 -0600
Subject: PyQt4
In-Reply-To: <b9ad8b64-b6a9-49df-8085-2d7afd2a406f@googlegroups.com>
References: <b9ad8b64-b6a9-49df-8085-2d7afd2a406f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <57016BA5.2030602@gmail.com>

On 04/03/2016 12:57 PM, Muhammad Ali wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> How can we confirm that either  PyQt4 is already installed on LInux machine or not?
> 
> Please suggest commands to confirm the already existence of  PyQt4 in the machine.

Ideally you make a distribution-specific package of the binary in a .deb
on Debian or an RPM on other distros, and specify that it depends on the
package that provides PyQt4.  That way when it's installed, modern
package managers will automatically install the dependencies.

Alternatively you can use try and except in your python code to attempt
to import something from PyQt4 and see if it fails or not.  This
technique is also used to make your code work either PyQt4 or PySide,
depending on which the user has installed.

try:
    from PySide import QtGui
except ImportError:
    from PyQt4 import QtGui

If neither are installed, this little example will end with an ImportError.


From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Apr  3 15:31:05 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 21:31:05 +0200
Subject: Sorting a list
References: <ndrn97$bco$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ndrr1r$l96$1@ger.gmane.org>

DFS wrote:

> cntText = 60
> cntBool = 20
> cntNbrs = 30
> cntDate = 20
> cntBins = 20
> 
> strText = "  text:     "
> strBool = "  boolean:  "
> strNbrs = "  numeric:  "
> strDate = "  date-time:"
> strBins = "  binary:   "
> 
> colCounts = [(cntText,strText) , (cntBool,strBool), (cntNbrs,strNbrs) ,
> (cntDate,strDate) , (cntBins,strBins)]
> 
> # sort by alpha, then by column type count descending
> colCounts.sort(key=lambda x: x[1])
> colCounts.sort(key=lambda x: x[0], reverse=True)
> for key in colCounts: print key[1], key[0]]
> 
> -------------------------------------------------
> 
> Output (which is exactly what I want):
> 
>    text:      60
>    numeric:   30
>    binary:    20
>    boolean:   20
>    date-time: 20
> 
> -------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> But, is there a 1-line way to sort and print?

Yes, but I would not recommend it. You can replace the sort() method 
invocations with nested calls of sorted() and instead of

for item in items:
    print convert_to_str(item)

use

print "\n".join(convert_to_str(item) for item in items)

Putting it together:

>>> from operator import itemgetter as get
>>> print "\n".join("{1} {0}".format(*p) for p in sorted(
... sorted(colCounts, key=get(1)), key=get(0), reverse=True))
  text:      60
  numeric:   30
  binary:    20
  boolean:   20
  date-time: 20

You could also cheat and use

lambda v: (-v[0], v[1])

and a single sorted().



From thisisink01 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 15:31:50 2016
From: thisisink01 at gmail.com (Loop.IO)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 12:31:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <ndrbl5$u2r$1@dont-email.me>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
 <03c7da56-c752-460f-98b1-84b7166a2cc3@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpmuo$4sq$1@dont-email.me>
 <32c7ba6b-b61d-45fb-89a8-dd62aa09fe78@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrbl5$u2r$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <860f0703-08a1-4721-86c9-67ddc129cdc6@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 4:11:49 PM UTC+1, BartC wrote:
> On 03/04/2016 15:41, Loop.IO wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 1:12:23 AM UTC+1, BartC wrote:
> >> On 02/04/2016 23:31, Loop.IO wrote:
> >>
> >>> Oh i see, so the code prompts for a name.. so i'm more lost than i thought, what do I need to change to make it just create the file with the chosen name Launch2.bat without the prompt?
> >>
> >> If you don't want the user to enter anything, then I explained how
> >> before, just use:
> >>
> >>        name='C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\launch2.bat'
> >>
> >> if that's the file name you need.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Bartc
> >
> > Hi Bartc, i tried that, didn't work
> 
> You mean it gave an error when you tried to create that file?
> 
> Does that path already exist on your machine? If not then trying to 
> create a file in a non-existent path won't work.
> 
> You can create the path manually outside of Python. Or look up the docs 
> to find out how to do that. A quick google suggested using os.makedirs 
> (to create multiple nested paths at the same time).
> 
> The following code worked on my machine:
> 
> import sys
> import os
> 
> def create():
> 	print("creating new file")
> 
> 	path="c:/Documents/PythonCoding/"
> 	name=path+"launch2.bat"
> 
> 	try:
> 		os.stat(path)
> 	except:
> 		os.makedirs(path)
> 
> 	print (name)
> 
> 	try:
> 		file=open(name,'w')
> 		file.close()
> 	except:
> 		print("error occured")
> 		sys.exit(0)
> 
> create()
> 
> -- 
> Bartc

The issue is that it hangs, there is no error. its like it pauses until i press enter, ill try what you've posted one moment


From muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 15:36:25 2016
From: muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com (Muhammad Ali)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 12:36:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PyQt4
In-Reply-To: <mailman.407.1459710890.28225.python-list@python.org>
References: <b9ad8b64-b6a9-49df-8085-2d7afd2a406f@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.407.1459710890.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eba7a2e7-b6d3-404d-a045-9a051e6741d2@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 12:15:06 PM UTC-7, Michael Torrie wrote:
> On 04/03/2016 12:57 PM, Muhammad Ali wrote:
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > How can we confirm that either  PyQt4 is already installed on LInux machine or not?
> > 
> > Please suggest commands to confirm the already existence of  PyQt4 in the machine.
> 
> Ideally you make a distribution-specific package of the binary in a .deb
> on Debian or an RPM on other distros, and specify that it depends on the
> package that provides PyQt4.  That way when it's installed, modern
> package managers will automatically install the dependencies.
> 
> Alternatively you can use try and except in your python code to attempt
> to import something from PyQt4 and see if it fails or not.  This
> technique is also used to make your code work either PyQt4 or PySide,
> depending on which the user has installed.
> 
> try:
>     from PySide import QtGui
> except ImportError:
>     from PyQt4 import QtGui
> 
> If neither are installed, this little example will end with an ImportError.

Thank you for your suggestions. I tried both but it shows the following error:
IndentationError: expected an indented block

Actually, I have to plot some graphs by using matplotlib and PyQt4 at supercomputer.

Any other suggestion???


From thisisink01 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 15:36:34 2016
From: thisisink01 at gmail.com (Loop.IO)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 12:36:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <860f0703-08a1-4721-86c9-67ddc129cdc6@googlegroups.com>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
 <03c7da56-c752-460f-98b1-84b7166a2cc3@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpmuo$4sq$1@dont-email.me>
 <32c7ba6b-b61d-45fb-89a8-dd62aa09fe78@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrbl5$u2r$1@dont-email.me>
 <860f0703-08a1-4721-86c9-67ddc129cdc6@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <99671ed7-7a89-4116-917d-3c9151847237@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 8:32:06 PM UTC+1, Loop.IO wrote:
> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 4:11:49 PM UTC+1, BartC wrote:
> > On 03/04/2016 15:41, Loop.IO wrote:
> > > On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 1:12:23 AM UTC+1, BartC wrote:
> > >> On 02/04/2016 23:31, Loop.IO wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Oh i see, so the code prompts for a name.. so i'm more lost than i thought, what do I need to change to make it just create the file with the chosen name Launch2.bat without the prompt?
> > >>
> > >> If you don't want the user to enter anything, then I explained how
> > >> before, just use:
> > >>
> > >>        name='C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\launch2.bat'
> > >>
> > >> if that's the file name you need.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Bartc
> > >
> > > Hi Bartc, i tried that, didn't work
> > 
> > You mean it gave an error when you tried to create that file?
> > 
> > Does that path already exist on your machine? If not then trying to 
> > create a file in a non-existent path won't work.
> > 
> > You can create the path manually outside of Python. Or look up the docs 
> > to find out how to do that. A quick google suggested using os.makedirs 
> > (to create multiple nested paths at the same time).
> > 
> > The following code worked on my machine:
> > 
> > import sys
> > import os
> > 
> > def create():
> > 	print("creating new file")
> > 
> > 	path="c:/Documents/PythonCoding/"
> > 	name=path+"launch2.bat"
> > 
> > 	try:
> > 		os.stat(path)
> > 	except:
> > 		os.makedirs(path)
> > 
> > 	print (name)
> > 
> > 	try:
> > 		file=open(name,'w')
> > 		file.close()
> > 	except:
> > 		print("error occured")
> > 		sys.exit(0)
> > 
> > create()
> > 
> > -- 
> > Bartc
> 
> The issue is that it hangs, there is no error. its like it pauses until i press enter, ill try what you've posted one moment

Ok the Bartc code gives me an error.

What is it that makes the code hang with what I have, you said it was that it's prompting for a name for the file, so how do I bypass that and force it to create the file with the name I've provided?


From python at lucidity.plus.com  Sun Apr  3 15:46:01 2016
From: python at lucidity.plus.com (Erik)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 20:46:01 +0100
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <32c7ba6b-b61d-45fb-89a8-dd62aa09fe78@googlegroups.com>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
 <03c7da56-c752-460f-98b1-84b7166a2cc3@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpmuo$4sq$1@dont-email.me>
 <32c7ba6b-b61d-45fb-89a8-dd62aa09fe78@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <570172F9.8020904@lucidity.plus.com>

Hi Loop.IO,

On 03/04/16 15:41, Loop.IO wrote:
>> If you don't want the user to enter anything, then I explained how
>> before, just use:
>>
>>        name='C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\launch2.bat'
>>
>> if that's the file name you need.
>>
>> --
>> Bartc
>
> Hi Bartc, i tried that, didn't work

FYI, for the future.

Telling someone what _didn't_ happen is generally not very useful to 
them if you expect them to try to help further.

If you tell them what _did_ happen (be that an error message or a weird 
file created or a pain in your leg or whatever), then that is much more 
likely to be productive ;)

If you would like someone to diagnose your illness, you must explain 
your symptoms ...

E.


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 15:46:49 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 19:46:49 +0000
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <99671ed7-7a89-4116-917d-3c9151847237@googlegroups.com>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
 <03c7da56-c752-460f-98b1-84b7166a2cc3@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpmuo$4sq$1@dont-email.me>
 <32c7ba6b-b61d-45fb-89a8-dd62aa09fe78@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrbl5$u2r$1@dont-email.me>
 <860f0703-08a1-4721-86c9-67ddc129cdc6@googlegroups.com>
 <99671ed7-7a89-4116-917d-3c9151847237@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkM_f-D0Vge8DXK0ChRn5CyUCw=_jUwvp8hSuepN17eawA@mail.gmail.com>

How do you know when you're done typing the name of the file?

It's hard to get tone right on the internet, so I'll clarify: this is not a
rhetorical question and I mean you, LoopIO, not a generic person.

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016, 8:40 PM Loop.IO <thisisink01 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 8:32:06 PM UTC+1, Loop.IO wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 4:11:49 PM UTC+1, BartC wrote:
> > > On 03/04/2016 15:41, Loop.IO wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 1:12:23 AM UTC+1, BartC wrote:
> > > >> On 02/04/2016 23:31, Loop.IO wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Oh i see, so the code prompts for a name.. so i'm more lost than i
> thought, what do I need to change to make it just create the file with the
> chosen name Launch2.bat without the prompt?
> > > >>
> > > >> If you don't want the user to enter anything, then I explained how
> > > >> before, just use:
> > > >>
> > > >>        name='C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\launch2.bat'
> > > >>
> > > >> if that's the file name you need.
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Bartc
> > > >
> > > > Hi Bartc, i tried that, didn't work
> > >
> > > You mean it gave an error when you tried to create that file?
> > >
> > > Does that path already exist on your machine? If not then trying to
> > > create a file in a non-existent path won't work.
> > >
> > > You can create the path manually outside of Python. Or look up the docs
> > > to find out how to do that. A quick google suggested using os.makedirs
> > > (to create multiple nested paths at the same time).
> > >
> > > The following code worked on my machine:
> > >
> > > import sys
> > > import os
> > >
> > > def create():
> > >     print("creating new file")
> > >
> > >     path="c:/Documents/PythonCoding/"
> > >     name=path+"launch2.bat"
> > >
> > >     try:
> > >             os.stat(path)
> > >     except:
> > >             os.makedirs(path)
> > >
> > >     print (name)
> > >
> > >     try:
> > >             file=open(name,'w')
> > >             file.close()
> > >     except:
> > >             print("error occured")
> > >             sys.exit(0)
> > >
> > > create()
> > >
> > > --
> > > Bartc
> >
> > The issue is that it hangs, there is no error. its like it pauses until
> i press enter, ill try what you've posted one moment
>
> Ok the Bartc code gives me an error.
>
> What is it that makes the code hang with what I have, you said it was that
> it's prompting for a name for the file, so how do I bypass that and force
> it to create the file with the name I've provided?
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From thisisink01 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 15:52:38 2016
From: thisisink01 at gmail.com (Loop.IO)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 12:52:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <mailman.386.1459643915.28225.python-list@python.org>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
 <03c7da56-c752-460f-98b1-84b7166a2cc3@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpmuo$4sq$1@dont-email.me>
 <mailman.386.1459643915.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bb071df3-beed-43d3-9c2a-1643c2892c42@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 1:38:48 AM UTC+1, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 03/04/2016 01:12, BartC wrote:
> > On 02/04/2016 23:31, Loop.IO wrote:
> >
> >> Oh i see, so the code prompts for a name.. so i'm more lost than i
> >> thought, what do I need to change to make it just create the file with
> >> the chosen name Launch2.bat without the prompt?
> >
> > If you don't want the user to enter anything, then I explained how
> > before, just use:
> >
> >       name='C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\launch2.bat'
> >
> > if that's the file name you need.
> >
> 
> name = r'C:\Documents\PythonCoding\launch2.bat'
> 
> Alternatively you could just use a forward slash.
> 
> I'm not sure which is the most efficient, I'll leave that to others to test.
> 
> -- 
> My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
> what you can do for our language.
> 
> Mark Lawrence

Hey Mark,

Sorry i totally missed your input, and guess what, it solved it !!!

Thanks man, it created the file and finished, what is different with r and raw_input


From thisisink01 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 15:54:16 2016
From: thisisink01 at gmail.com (Loop.IO)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 12:54:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <mailman.409.1459712951.28225.python-list@python.org>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
 <03c7da56-c752-460f-98b1-84b7166a2cc3@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpmuo$4sq$1@dont-email.me>
 <32c7ba6b-b61d-45fb-89a8-dd62aa09fe78@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.409.1459712951.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <686d7aab-4020-4840-a1b7-fce8e89c6633@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 8:49:28 PM UTC+1, Erik wrote:
> Hi Loop.IO,
> 
> On 03/04/16 15:41, Loop.IO wrote:
> >> If you don't want the user to enter anything, then I explained how
> >> before, just use:
> >>
> >>        name='C:\\Documents\\PythonCoding\\launch2.bat'
> >>
> >> if that's the file name you need.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Bartc
> >
> > Hi Bartc, i tried that, didn't work
> 
> FYI, for the future.
> 
> Telling someone what _didn't_ happen is generally not very useful to 
> them if you expect them to try to help further.
> 
> If you tell them what _did_ happen (be that an error message or a weird 
> file created or a pain in your leg or whatever), then that is much more 
> likely to be productive ;)
> 
> If you would like someone to diagnose your illness, you must explain 
> your symptoms ...
> 
> E.

The original post said what did happen, the code runs and hangs on the create file, and once i press Enter it then finishes and creates the file, not sure how you missed that but thanks


From nospam at dfs.com  Sun Apr  3 16:08:42 2016
From: nospam at dfs.com (DFS)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 16:08:42 -0400
Subject: Sorting a list
In-Reply-To: <mailman.408.1459711883.28225.python-list@python.org>
References: <ndrn97$bco$1@dont-email.me>
 <mailman.408.1459711883.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ndrt29$36l$1@dont-email.me>

On 4/3/2016 3:31 PM, Peter Otten wrote:
> DFS wrote:
>
>> cntText = 60
>> cntBool = 20
>> cntNbrs = 30
>> cntDate = 20
>> cntBins = 20
>>
>> strText = "  text:     "
>> strBool = "  boolean:  "
>> strNbrs = "  numeric:  "
>> strDate = "  date-time:"
>> strBins = "  binary:   "
>>
>> colCounts = [(cntText,strText) , (cntBool,strBool), (cntNbrs,strNbrs) ,
>> (cntDate,strDate) , (cntBins,strBins)]
>>
>> # sort by alpha, then by column type count descending
>> colCounts.sort(key=lambda x: x[1])
>> colCounts.sort(key=lambda x: x[0], reverse=True)
>> for key in colCounts: print key[1], key[0]]
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Output (which is exactly what I want):
>>
>>     text:      60
>>     numeric:   30
>>     binary:    20
>>     boolean:   20
>>     date-time: 20
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> But, is there a 1-line way to sort and print?
>
> Yes, but I would not recommend it. You can replace the sort() method
> invocations with nested calls of sorted() and instead of
>
> for item in items:
>      print convert_to_str(item)
>
> use
>
> print "\n".join(convert_to_str(item) for item in items)
>
> Putting it together:
>
>>>> from operator import itemgetter as get
>>>> print "\n".join("{1} {0}".format(*p) for p in sorted(
> ... sorted(colCounts, key=get(1)), key=get(0), reverse=True))

Kind of clunky looking.  Is that why don't you recommend it?




>    text:      60
>    numeric:   30
>    binary:    20
>    boolean:   20
>    date-time: 20
>
> You could also cheat and use
>
> lambda v: (-v[0], v[1])
>
> and a single sorted().

That works well.  Why is it 'cheating'?


Thanks for the reply.




From python at lucidity.plus.com  Sun Apr  3 16:10:51 2016
From: python at lucidity.plus.com (Erik)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 21:10:51 +0100
Subject: i cant seem to figure out the error
In-Reply-To: <CABMxrODHsfZuSUSWT1AkBDAUzC9U5=MheXQv01QOsTNiSE2a=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABMxrODHsfZuSUSWT1AkBDAUzC9U5=MheXQv01QOsTNiSE2a=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <570178CB.8060402@lucidity.plus.com>

Hi Anthony,

On 03/04/16 16:06, anthony uwaifo wrote:
> please i need help with this assignment. I have written a code and i still
> get an error. please help me debug my code.

We see this assignment come up a lot. The "tutor" list is a better place 
to go, but well done for at least attempting it and coming up with quite 
a good result.

>     - Create a method called `withdraw` that takes in cash withdrawal amount
>     and updates the balance accordingly. if amount is greater than balance
>     return `"invalid transaction"`

Read this carefully. Read it _literally_. What does your 'withdraw' 
method return?

E.


From python at lucidity.plus.com  Sun Apr  3 16:15:00 2016
From: python at lucidity.plus.com (Erik)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 21:15:00 +0100
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <686d7aab-4020-4840-a1b7-fce8e89c6633@googlegroups.com>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
 <03c7da56-c752-460f-98b1-84b7166a2cc3@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpmuo$4sq$1@dont-email.me>
 <32c7ba6b-b61d-45fb-89a8-dd62aa09fe78@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.409.1459712951.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <686d7aab-4020-4840-a1b7-fce8e89c6633@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <570179C4.4000706@lucidity.plus.com>

On 03/04/16 20:54, Loop.IO wrote:
> The original post said what did happen, the code runs and hangs on
> the create file, and once i press Enter it then finishes and creates
> the file, not sure how you missed that but thanks

Yes, I read your original post. That was days ago.

The comment I was replying to was you telling BartC that what he had
suggested "didn't work" (with no further information).

Please pay attention to the context of the email you are responding to.

E.




From bc at freeuk.com  Sun Apr  3 16:21:30 2016
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 21:21:30 +0100
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <99671ed7-7a89-4116-917d-3c9151847237@googlegroups.com>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
 <03c7da56-c752-460f-98b1-84b7166a2cc3@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpmuo$4sq$1@dont-email.me>
 <32c7ba6b-b61d-45fb-89a8-dd62aa09fe78@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrbl5$u2r$1@dont-email.me>
 <860f0703-08a1-4721-86c9-67ddc129cdc6@googlegroups.com>
 <99671ed7-7a89-4116-917d-3c9151847237@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ndrtq8$657$1@dont-email.me>

On 03/04/2016 20:36, Loop.IO wrote:
> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 8:32:06 PM UTC+1, Loop.IO wrote:

>> The issue is that it hangs, there is no error. its like it pauses until i press enter, ill try what you've posted one momen


> Ok the Bartc code gives me an error.

This is confusing! I know you said you fixed the problem now, but if it 
was waiting for the user to press enter, then you still had a raw_input 
or input() call in your code.

You need to get rid of that raw_input(). That was explained early on in 
the thread but perhaps you didn't grasp that you had to use:

   name = '....'

in place of:

   name = raw_input(....)

and not as well as!

(And the 'r' in name = r'....' isn't a different version of raw_input(), 
it's just a way of entering strings without having to type \\ when you 
need \.)

-- 
Bartc


From thisisink01 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 16:25:04 2016
From: thisisink01 at gmail.com (Loop.IO)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 13:25:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <mailman.412.1459714509.28225.python-list@python.org>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
 <03c7da56-c752-460f-98b1-84b7166a2cc3@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpmuo$4sq$1@dont-email.me>
 <32c7ba6b-b61d-45fb-89a8-dd62aa09fe78@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.409.1459712951.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <686d7aab-4020-4840-a1b7-fce8e89c6633@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.412.1459714509.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6d022206-5f4d-4ac9-be50-76ce74ef48c0@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 9:15:22 PM UTC+1, Erik wrote:
> On 03/04/16 20:54, Loop.IO wrote:
> > The original post said what did happen, the code runs and hangs on
> > the create file, and once i press Enter it then finishes and creates
> > the file, not sure how you missed that but thanks
> 
> Yes, I read your original post. That was days ago.
> 
> The comment I was replying to was you telling BartC that what he had
> suggested "didn't work" (with no further information).
> 
> Please pay attention to the context of the email you are responding to.
> 
> E.

Erik

It was a syntax error. But sure, thanks.

The problem has been rectified, I used the r as suggested by Mark.

I've now been able to get the file created and write the code in the file, thanks for everyones replies.


From vincent.vande.vyvre at telenet.be  Sun Apr  3 16:32:15 2016
From: vincent.vande.vyvre at telenet.be (Vincent Vande Vyvre)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 22:32:15 +0200
Subject: PyQt4
In-Reply-To: <eba7a2e7-b6d3-404d-a045-9a051e6741d2@googlegroups.com>
References: <b9ad8b64-b6a9-49df-8085-2d7afd2a406f@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.407.1459710890.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <eba7a2e7-b6d3-404d-a045-9a051e6741d2@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <57017DCF.2080507@telenet.be>

Le 03/04/2016 21:36, Muhammad Ali a ?crit :
> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 12:15:06 PM UTC-7, Michael Torrie wrote:
>> On 04/03/2016 12:57 PM, Muhammad Ali wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> How can we confirm that either  PyQt4 is already installed on LInux machine or not?
>>>
>>> Please suggest commands to confirm the already existence of  PyQt4 in the machine.
>> Ideally you make a distribution-specific package of the binary in a .deb
>> on Debian or an RPM on other distros, and specify that it depends on the
>> package that provides PyQt4.  That way when it's installed, modern
>> package managers will automatically install the dependencies.
>>
>> Alternatively you can use try and except in your python code to attempt
>> to import something from PyQt4 and see if it fails or not.  This
>> technique is also used to make your code work either PyQt4 or PySide,
>> depending on which the user has installed.
>>
>> try:
>>      from PySide import QtGui
>> except ImportError:
>>      from PyQt4 import QtGui
>>
>> If neither are installed, this little example will end with an ImportError.
> Thank you for your suggestions. I tried both but it shows the following error:
> IndentationError: expected an indented block
>
> Actually, I have to plot some graphs by using matplotlib and PyQt4 at supercomputer.
>
> Any other suggestion???

There's no IndentationError in the exemple provided by Michael.

Copy the code AS IT in a file and retry.

Vincent


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 17:04:20 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 21:04:20 +0000
Subject: Plot/Graph
In-Reply-To: <768f1e2e-baab-4ce3-ae4e-aab2d8ac5bf8@googlegroups.com>
References: <768f1e2e-baab-4ce3-ae4e-aab2d8ac5bf8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkN+snrOTcRp4UQ0f8UCfb3sKRWFNE7GNrD91VnbAjMwYQ@mail.gmail.com>

Indeed there is. Every example in the gallery shows the code to produce it.

http://matplotlib.org/gallery.html

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016, 8:05 PM Muhammad Ali <muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> Could anybody tell me that how can I plot graphs by matplotlib and get
> expertise in a short time? I have to plot 2D plots just like origin
> software.
>
> Secondly, how could we draw some horizontal reference line at zero when
> the vertical scale is from -3 to 3?
>
> Looking for your posts, please.
>
> Thank you.
>
> p.s: Is there any short and to the point text book/manual/pdf to learn 2D
> plotting with matplotlib?
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From thisisink01 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 17:07:34 2016
From: thisisink01 at gmail.com (Loop.IO)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 14:07:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <ndrtq8$657$1@dont-email.me>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
 <03c7da56-c752-460f-98b1-84b7166a2cc3@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpmuo$4sq$1@dont-email.me>
 <32c7ba6b-b61d-45fb-89a8-dd62aa09fe78@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrbl5$u2r$1@dont-email.me>
 <860f0703-08a1-4721-86c9-67ddc129cdc6@googlegroups.com>
 <99671ed7-7a89-4116-917d-3c9151847237@googlegroups.com>
 <ndrtq8$657$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <cc5edd4e-0b3c-4073-81aa-c760b5c5ea93@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 9:21:44 PM UTC+1, BartC wrote:
> On 03/04/2016 20:36, Loop.IO wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 8:32:06 PM UTC+1, Loop.IO wrote:
> 
> >> The issue is that it hangs, there is no error. its like it pauses until i press enter, ill try what you've posted one momen
> 
> 
> > Ok the Bartc code gives me an error.
> 
> This is confusing! I know you said you fixed the problem now, but if it 
> was waiting for the user to press enter, then you still had a raw_input 
> or input() call in your code.
> 
> You need to get rid of that raw_input(). That was explained early on in 
> the thread but perhaps you didn't grasp that you had to use:
> 
>    name = '....'
> 
> in place of:
> 
>    name = raw_input(....)
> 
> and not as well as!
> 
> (And the 'r' in name = r'....' isn't a different version of raw_input(), 
> it's just a way of entering strings without having to type \\ when you 
> need \.)
> 
> -- 
> Bartc

Hey Bartc

I'm sorry about getting you confused, I did try that, but it didn't work, maybe it was me, but now I've tried it again it does work.

I've now managed to get the file to be created and write to the file so its all working fine.

The only question left is when I've conducted a search through all the drives for a browser .exe file, how do I take the search results and put them in to a text file, but I guess that's for another thread.



From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Sun Apr  3 17:12:05 2016
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 21:12:05 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Untrusted code execution
Message-ID: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>

I'd just like to say up front that this is more of a thought experiment
than anything else, I don't have any plans to use this idea on any
genuinely untrusted code. Apart from anything else, there's the
denial-of-service issue.

That said, is there any way that the following Python 3.4 code could
result in a arbitrary code execution security hole?

    tree = compile(untrusted_code, "<script>", "eval", ast.PyCF_ONLY_AST)
    for node in ast.walk(tree):
        if (isinstance(node, ast.Name) and node.id.startswith("_") or
            isinstance(node, ast.Attribute) and node.attr.startswith("_")):
                raise ValueError("Access to private values is not allowed.")
    namespace = {"__builtins__": {"int": int, "str": str, "len": len}}
    print(eval(compile(tree, "<script>", "eval"), namespace))


From muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 17:17:45 2016
From: muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com (Muhammad Ali)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 14:17:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Plot/Graph
In-Reply-To: <mailman.414.1459717472.28225.python-list@python.org>
References: <768f1e2e-baab-4ce3-ae4e-aab2d8ac5bf8@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.414.1459717472.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20f8e8fb-0bb8-4daa-8d68-d0cc3699a6fc@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 2:04:45 PM UTC-7, Michael Selik wrote:
> Indeed there is. Every example in the gallery shows the code to produce it.
> 
> http://matplotlib.org/gallery.html
> 
> On Sun, Apr 3, 2016, 8:05 PM Muhammad Ali <muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Could anybody tell me that how can I plot graphs by matplotlib and get
> > expertise in a short time? I have to plot 2D plots just like origin
> > software.
> >
> > Secondly, how could we draw some horizontal reference line at zero when
> > the vertical scale is from -3 to 3?
> >
> > Looking for your posts, please.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > p.s: Is there any short and to the point text book/manual/pdf to learn 2D
> > plotting with matplotlib?
> > --
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >

Thank you for your post.

 How do I convert/change/modify python script so that my data could be extracted according to python script and at the end it generates another single extracted data file instead of displaying/showing some graph? So that, I can manually plot the newly generated file (after data extraction) by some other software like origin.


From python at lucidity.plus.com  Sun Apr  3 17:26:56 2016
From: python at lucidity.plus.com (Erik)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 22:26:56 +0100
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <6d022206-5f4d-4ac9-be50-76ce74ef48c0@googlegroups.com>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
 <03c7da56-c752-460f-98b1-84b7166a2cc3@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpmuo$4sq$1@dont-email.me>
 <32c7ba6b-b61d-45fb-89a8-dd62aa09fe78@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.409.1459712951.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <686d7aab-4020-4840-a1b7-fce8e89c6633@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.412.1459714509.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <6d022206-5f4d-4ac9-be50-76ce74ef48c0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <57018AA0.3010607@lucidity.plus.com>

Loop.IO:

On 03/04/16 21:25, Loop.IO wrote:
> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 9:15:22 PM UTC+1, Erik wrote:
>> On 03/04/16 20:54, Loop.IO wrote:
>>> The original post said what did happen, the code runs and hangs on
>>> the create file, and once i press Enter it then finishes and creates
>>> the file, not sure how you missed that but thanks
>>
>> Yes, I read your original post. That was days ago.
>>
>> The comment I was replying to was you telling BartC that what he had
>> suggested "didn't work" (with no further information).
>>
>> Please pay attention to the context of the email you are responding to.
>>
>> E.
>
> Erik
>
> It was a syntax error. But sure, thanks.

So, you reply to my advisory on how to report your problem by saying 
that your original post said what did happen. Your original post said:

"the code runs and hangs on the create file, and once i press Enter it 
then finishes and creates the file"

But it turns out that "It was a syntax error".

If it was a syntax error, them how did the code run and "hang on the 
create file"?

Don't try to sweep my suggestion (that you should describe your symptoms 
properly) under the carpet. It's a very important lesson to learn for 
people trying to report bugs/issues.

E.


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 17:35:42 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 22:35:42 +0100
Subject: Plot/Graph
In-Reply-To: <20f8e8fb-0bb8-4daa-8d68-d0cc3699a6fc@googlegroups.com>
References: <768f1e2e-baab-4ce3-ae4e-aab2d8ac5bf8@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.414.1459717472.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <20f8e8fb-0bb8-4daa-8d68-d0cc3699a6fc@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxRpjudmu1F0OjUZEryeHEnF8p1OrNSUx10a2eSQmwDMWw@mail.gmail.com>

On 3 Apr 2016 22:21, "Muhammad Ali" <muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  How do I convert/change/modify python script so that my data could be
extracted according to python script and at the end it generates another
single extracted data file instead of displaying/showing some graph? So
that, I can manually plot the newly generated file (after data extraction)
by some other software like origin.

It depends what you're computing and what format origin expects the data to
be in. Presumably it can use CSV files so take a look at the CSV module
which can write these.

(You'll get better answers to a question like this if you show us some code
and ask a specific question about how to change it.)

--
Oscar


From thisisink01 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 17:49:25 2016
From: thisisink01 at gmail.com (Loop.IO)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 14:49:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <mailman.415.1459718820.28225.python-list@python.org>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
 <03c7da56-c752-460f-98b1-84b7166a2cc3@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpmuo$4sq$1@dont-email.me>
 <32c7ba6b-b61d-45fb-89a8-dd62aa09fe78@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.409.1459712951.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <686d7aab-4020-4840-a1b7-fce8e89c6633@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.412.1459714509.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <6d022206-5f4d-4ac9-be50-76ce74ef48c0@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.415.1459718820.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1d02705b-00aa-4882-a54d-9bb1c162ce29@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 10:27:16 PM UTC+1, Erik wrote:
> Loop.IO:
> 
> On 03/04/16 21:25, Loop.IO wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 9:15:22 PM UTC+1, Erik wrote:
> >> On 03/04/16 20:54, Loop.IO wrote:
> >>> The original post said what did happen, the code runs and hangs on
> >>> the create file, and once i press Enter it then finishes and creates
> >>> the file, not sure how you missed that but thanks
> >>
> >> Yes, I read your original post. That was days ago.
> >>
> >> The comment I was replying to was you telling BartC that what he had
> >> suggested "didn't work" (with no further information).
> >>
> >> Please pay attention to the context of the email you are responding to.
> >>
> >> E.
> >
> > Erik
> >
> > It was a syntax error. But sure, thanks.
> 
> So, you reply to my advisory on how to report your problem by saying 
> that your original post said what did happen. Your original post said:
> 
> "the code runs and hangs on the create file, and once i press Enter it 
> then finishes and creates the file"
> 
> But it turns out that "It was a syntax error".
> 
> If it was a syntax error, them how did the code run and "hang on the 
> create file"?
> 
> Don't try to sweep my suggestion (that you should describe your symptoms 
> properly) under the carpet. It's a very important lesson to learn for 
> people trying to report bugs/issues.
> 
> E.

I think you've misunderstood chap

My initial issue didn't have a syntax error, it just hung in the code until I pressed Enter/Return.

I then tried Bartc's solution when I changed my code, which I then replied "it doesn't work", which as you pointed out was unhelpful.

You now seem to be on some sort of rampage as I've already recognised that it was short, and said I got a syntax error upon attempting the new code that Bartc provided. I then said thanks to you for pointing it out, if you want to call that sweeping it under the carpet, then so be it, but the issue was resolved.

That's really the end of the matter, whether you're fishing for some sort of recognition or brownie points I don't know, but try relaxing and taking a step back; the issue is resolved, I'm moving on with the program, I appreciate the replies from everyone (including you) so chill.


From cs at zip.com.au  Sun Apr  3 17:49:41 2016
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 07:49:41 +1000
Subject: Failed to update the os.environ with subprocess.Popen.
In-Reply-To: <ndquho$62b$1@aspen.stu.neva.ru>
References: <ndquho$62b$1@aspen.stu.neva.ru>
Message-ID: <20160403214941.GA89896@cskk.homeip.net>

On 03Apr2016 11:24, Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 18:20:31 +1000, Cameron Simpson wrote:
>
>> In particular, you want the subprocess' output. As written, your code
>> sets "output" to the Popen object. You actually want to set it to the
>> .stdout attribute of that object, which is the output from the
>> subcommand.
>
>Based on your above hints, I try to use the following codes:
>
>output = Popen("""
>/bin/bash <<EOF
>source ~/.profile.d/environment-module-systems/modules.sh
>export PATH=$MODULESHOME/../default/bin:$PATH
>module add intel/parallel_studio_xe_2015
>env -0
>EOF
>""", shell=True).stdout
>
>But I meet the following error:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/home/werner/software/hpc/dft-to-study/jasp/jasp.git/jasp/bin/
>runjasp.py", line 138, in <module>
>    os.environ.update(line.partition('=')[::2] for line in output.split
>('\0'))
>AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'split'

Please have a close read of the subprocess docs as Steven recommended.

You're calling:

  output.split('\0')

The message above indicates that "output" is None. This is probably because you 
have not asked to attach to the command's output in your Popen() call, and 
therefore stdout is not attached to a pipe, so it is None.

Also note that even when it is attached to a pipe, .stdout is a _file_. So you 
need to read from it to get a string to split.

>While the following code will work smoothly:
>
>output = Popen("""
>/bin/bash <<EOF
>source ~/.profile.d/modules/modules.sh
>export PATH=$MODULESHOME/../default/bin:$PATH
>module add intel/parallel_studio_xe_2015
>env -0
>EOF
>""", shell=True, stdout=PIPE).communicate()[0]
>
>Any hints on this issue?

This is because (a) you specified stdout=PIPE here, which you did not do 
earlier and (b) because .communicate reads the output for you and gives you a 
string.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>


From python at lucidity.plus.com  Sun Apr  3 18:07:32 2016
From: python at lucidity.plus.com (Erik)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 23:07:32 +0100
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
In-Reply-To: <1d02705b-00aa-4882-a54d-9bb1c162ce29@googlegroups.com>
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
 <03c7da56-c752-460f-98b1-84b7166a2cc3@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpmuo$4sq$1@dont-email.me>
 <32c7ba6b-b61d-45fb-89a8-dd62aa09fe78@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.409.1459712951.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <686d7aab-4020-4840-a1b7-fce8e89c6633@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.412.1459714509.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <6d022206-5f4d-4ac9-be50-76ce74ef48c0@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.415.1459718820.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <1d02705b-00aa-4882-a54d-9bb1c162ce29@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <57019424.6010807@lucidity.plus.com>

On 03/04/16 22:49, Loop.IO wrote:
> You now seem to be on some sort of rampage

I offered you some valuable advice.

*plonk*

E.


From muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 20:04:51 2016
From: muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com (Muhammad Ali)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 17:04:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Plot/Graph
In-Reply-To: <mailman.416.1459719344.28225.python-list@python.org>
References: <768f1e2e-baab-4ce3-ae4e-aab2d8ac5bf8@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.414.1459717472.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <20f8e8fb-0bb8-4daa-8d68-d0cc3699a6fc@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.416.1459719344.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10a26eef-d271-4202-902e-751eb5495a80@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 2:35:58 PM UTC-7, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
> On 3 Apr 2016 22:21, "Muhammad Ali" <muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >  How do I convert/change/modify python script so that my data could be
> extracted according to python script and at the end it generates another
> single extracted data file instead of displaying/showing some graph? So
> that, I can manually plot the newly generated file (after data extraction)
> by some other software like origin.
> 
> It depends what you're computing and what format origin expects the data to
> be in. Presumably it can use CSV files so take a look at the CSV module
> which can write these.
> 
> (You'll get better answers to a question like this if you show us some code
> and ask a specific question about how to change it.)
> 
> --
> Oscar

How could the python script be modified to generate data file rather than display a plot by using matplotlib?


def make_plot(plot):
    indent = plot.plot_options.indent
    args = plot.plot_options.args
    # Creating the plot
    print ('Generating the plot...')
    fig = plt.figure(figsize=(plot.fig_width_inches,plot.fig_height_inches))
    ax = fig.add_subplot(111)
    # Defining the color schemes.
    print (indent + '>>> Using the "' + plot.cmap_name + '" colormap.')
    if(plot.plot_options.using_default_cmap and not args.running_from_GUI):
        print (2 * indent + 'Tip: You can try different colormaps by either:')
        print (2 * indent + '     * Running the plot tool with the option -icmap n, ' \
               'with n in the range from 0 to', len(plot.plot_options.cmaps) - 1)
        print (2 * indent + '     * Running the plot tool with the option "-cmap cmap_name".')
        print (2 * indent + '> Take a look at')
        print (4 * indent + '<http://matplotlib.org/examples/color/colormaps_reference.html>')
        print (2 * indent + '  for a list of colormaps, or run')
        print (4 * indent + '"./plot_unfolded_EBS_BandUP.py --help".')

    # Building the countour plot from the read data
    # Defining the (ki,Ej) grid.
    if(args.interpolation is not None):
        ki = np.linspace(plot.kmin, plot.kmax, 2 * len(set(plot.KptsCoords)) + 1, endpoint=True)
        Ei = np.arange(plot.emin, plot.emax + plot.dE_for_hist2d, plot.dE_for_hist2d)
        # Interpolating
        grid_freq = griddata((plot.KptsCoords, plot.energies), plot.delta_Ns, (ki[None,:], Ei[:,None]), 
                             method=args.interpolation, fill_value=0.0)
    else:
        ki = np.unique(np.clip(plot.KptsCoords, plot.kmin, plot.kmax))
        Ei = np.unique(np.clip(plot.energies, plot.emin,  plot.emax))
        grid_freq = griddata((plot.KptsCoords, plot.energies), plot.delta_Ns, (ki[None,:], Ei[:,None]), 
                             method='nearest', fill_value=0.0)

    if(not args.skip_grid_freq_clip):
        grid_freq = grid_freq.clip(0.0) # Values smaller than zero are just noise.
    # Normalizing and building the countour plot
    manually_normalize_colorbar_min_and_maxval = False
    if((args.maxval_for_colorbar is not None) or (args.minval_for_colorbar is not None)):
        manually_normalize_colorbar_min_and_maxval = True
        args.disable_auto_round_vmin_and_vmax = True
        maxval_for_colorbar = args.maxval_for_colorbar
        minval_for_colorbar = args.minval_for_colorbar
    else:
        if not args.disable_auto_round_vmin_and_vmax:
            minval_for_colorbar = float(round(np.min(grid_freq)))
            maxval_for_colorbar = float(round(np.max(grid_freq)))
            args.round_cb = 0
    if(manually_normalize_colorbar_min_and_maxval or not args.disable_auto_round_vmin_and_vmax):
        modified_vmin_or_vmax = False
        if not args.disable_auto_round_vmin_and_vmax and not args.running_from_GUI:
            print (plot.indent + '* Automatically renormalizing color scale '\
                   '(you can disable this with the option --disable_auto_round_vmin_and_vmax):')
        if manually_normalize_colorbar_min_and_maxval:
            print (plot.indent + '* Manually renormalizing color scale')
        if(minval_for_colorbar is not None):
            previous_vmin = np.min(grid_freq)
            if(abs(previous_vmin - minval_for_colorbar) >= 0.1):
                modified_vmin_or_vmax = True
                print (2 * indent + 'Previous vmin = %.1f, new vmin = %.1f' % (previous_vmin, 
                                                                               minval_for_colorbar))
        else:
            minval_for_colorbar = np.min(grid_freq)
        if(maxval_for_colorbar is not None):
            previous_vmax = np.max(grid_freq)
            if(abs(previous_vmax - maxval_for_colorbar) >= 0.1):
                modified_vmin_or_vmax = True
                print (2 * indent + 'Previous vmax = %.1f, new vmax = %.1f' % (previous_vmax, 
                                                                               maxval_for_colorbar))
        else:
            maxval_for_colorbar = np.max(grid_freq)
        if(modified_vmin_or_vmax):
            print (2 * indent + 'The previous vmin and vmax might be slightly different from '
                                'the min and max delta_Ns '
                                'due to the interpolation scheme used for the plot.')
        # values > vmax will be set to vmax, and #<vmin will be set to vmin 
        grid_freq = grid_freq.clip(minval_for_colorbar, maxval_for_colorbar)
        v = np.linspace(minval_for_colorbar, maxval_for_colorbar, args.n_levels, endpoint=True)
    else: 
        v = np.linspace(np.min(grid_freq), np.max(grid_freq), args.n_levels, endpoint=True)
    print (indent + '* Drawing contour plot...')
    print (2 * indent + '> Using %i color levels. Use the option "--n_levels" to choose a different number.' %args.n_levels)
    image = ax.contourf(ki, Ei, grid_freq, levels=v, cmap=plot.cmap)

    plot_spin_proj_requested = args.plot_spin_perp or args.plot_spin_para or args.plot_sigma_x or args.plot_sigma_y or args.plot_sigma_z
    if(plot_spin_proj_requested and plot.spin_projections is not None):
        print (indent + '* Drawing spin projection info')
        cmap_for_spin_plot = [plt.cm.bwr, plt.cm.RdBu, plt.cm.seismic_r][0]

        if(args.clip_spin is None):
            vmin_spin = np.min(plot.spin_projections)
            vmax_spin = np.max(plot.spin_projections)
        else:
            vmax_spin = abs(args.clip_spin)
            vmin_spin = -1.0 * abs(args.clip_spin)
            print (2 * indent + '* New maxval for spin: %.2f' % vmax_spin)
            print (2 * indent + '* New minval for spin: %.2f' % vmin_spin)
 
        spin_projections = np.clip(plot.spin_projections, vmin_spin, vmax_spin)
        grid_freq_spin = griddata((plot.KptsCoords, plot.energies), spin_projections, (ki[None,:], Ei[:,None]), 
                                  method='nearest', fill_value=0.0)

        k_for_scatter = [] 
        E_for_scatter = [] 
        spin_projections_for_scatter = [] 
        for iener in range(len(Ei)):
            for ikpt in range(len(ki)):
                if(abs(grid_freq_spin[iener, ikpt]) > 1E-3):
                    k_for_scatter.append(ki[ikpt])
                    E_for_scatter.append(Ei[iener])
                    spin_projections_for_scatter.append(grid_freq_spin[iener, ikpt])

        if(spin_projections_for_scatter):
            if(args.spin_marker=='o'):
                image2 = ax.scatter(k_for_scatter, E_for_scatter, marker='o', 
                                    s=[10.0 * abs(item) for item in spin_projections_for_scatter], 
                                    c=spin_projections_for_scatter, cmap=cmap_for_spin_plot)
            else:
                image2 = ax.scatter(k_for_scatter, E_for_scatter, marker='_', 
                                    s=[500.0 * (ki[1] - ki[0]) for item in spin_projections_for_scatter], 
                                    linewidth=[100.0 * plot.dE_for_hist2d * (item ** 2) for item in spin_projections_for_scatter], 
                                    c=spin_projections_for_scatter, cmap=cmap_for_spin_plot)
        else:
            print (2 * indent + '* The abs values of the spin projections were all < 1E-3.')

    #Preparing the plot
    ax.set_xlim(plot.kmin, plot.kmax)
    ax.set_ylim(plot.emin, plot.emax)
    ax.set_title(plot.title, fontsize=plot.title_size)
    ax.set_ylabel(plot.y_axis_label, fontsize=plot.yaxis_labels_size)
    plt.yticks(fontsize=plot.tick_marks_size)

    # Fermi energy line
    show_E_f = not args.no_ef
    if(show_E_f and plot.E_f >= plot.emin and plot.E_f <= plot.emax):
        E_f_line = plt.axhline(y=plot.E_f, c=plot.color_E_f_line(image), linestyle=plot.line_style_E_f, lw=plot.line_width_E_f)
    # High symmetry points lines
    if(plot.pos_high_symm_points):
        x_tiks_positions = [kx for kx in plot.pos_high_symm_points if kx - plot.kmax <= 1E-2 and kx >= plot.kmin]
    if(args.no_symm_labels):
        x_tiks_labels = []
    else:
        x_tiks_labels = [plot.labels_high_symm_lines[i] for i in range(len(plot.labels_high_symm_lines)) if 
                         plot.pos_high_symm_points[i] in x_tiks_positions]
        x_tiks_labels = [xlabel for xlabel in x_tiks_labels if xlabel]
    if x_tiks_labels:
        print (indent + '* K-point labels read from the "' + args.kpoints_file + '" file:')
        for ilabel in range(len(x_tiks_labels)):
            print(2 * indent + "k = {:9.5f}".format(x_tiks_positions[ilabel]) + ', label =',\
                   x_tiks_labels[ilabel])
        plt.xticks(x_tiks_positions, x_tiks_labels, fontsize=plot.tick_marks_size)
    else:
        plot.x_axis_label = '$k \hspace{0.25} (\AA^{-1})$'
        plt.locator_params(axis = 'x', nbins = 5)
        ax.set_xlabel(plot.x_axis_label, fontsize=plot.xaxis_labels_size)
        plt.xticks(fontsize=plot.tick_marks_size)
    ax.tick_params(axis='x', pad=10)

    # Drawing vertical lines at the positions of the high-symmetry points
    if(not args.no_symm_lines):
        for line_position in [pos for pos in plot.pos_high_symm_points if float(round(pos, 3)) > float(round(plot.kmin, 3)) and 
                                                                          float(round(pos, 3)) < float(round(plot.kmax, 3))]:
            hs_lines = plt.axvline(x=line_position, c=plot.color_high_symm_lines(image), linestyle=plot.line_style_high_symm_points, 
                                   lw=plot.line_width_high_symm_points)

    # Color bar
    show_colorbar = not args.no_cb
    if show_colorbar:
        if plot.cb_orientation=='vertical':
            cb_pad=0.005
        else:
            cb_pad=0.06
        if(not x_tiks_labels):
            cb_pad += 0.08 # To prevent the cb from overlapping with the numbers.

        cb_yticks = np.arange(int(image.norm.vmin), int(image.norm.vmax) + 1, 1)

        cb_ytick_labels = [round(item,abs(args.round_cb)) for item in cb_yticks]
        cb = plt.colorbar(image, ax=ax, ticks=cb_yticks, orientation=plot.cb_orientation, pad=cb_pad)
        cb.set_ticklabels(cb_ytick_labels)
        cb.ax.tick_params(labelsize=plot.colorbar_tick_marks_size)
       
        color_bar_label = None
        if args.cb_label: 
            color_bar_label = ('$Color scale: \hspace{0.5} \delta N(\\vec{k}; ' + 
                               '\hspace{0.25} \epsilon)$ ') 
        if args.cb_label_full: 
            color_bar_label = ('$Colors cale: \hspace{0.5} \delta N(\\vec{k}; ' +
                               '\hspace{0.25} \epsilon);$ '+ 
                               '$\delta\epsilon=' + round(1000.0*plot.dE_for_hist2d,0) +
                               '\\hspace{0.25} meV.$')

        if plot.cb_orientation=='vertical':
            cb_label_rotation = 90
        else:
            cb_label_rotation = 0
        if color_bar_label:
            cb.ax.text(plot.offset_x_text_colorbar, plot.offset_y_text_colorbar,
                       color_bar_label, rotation=cb_label_rotation, ha='center',
                       va='center', fontsize=plot.colorbar_label_size)

    # Saving/showing the results
    plt.tick_params(which='both', bottom='off', top='off', left='off', right='off', 
                    labelbottom='on')


    default_out_basename = "_".join([splitext(basename(args.input_file))[0], 'E_from', str(plot.emin), 'to',
                                    str(plot.emax), 'eV_dE', 
                                    str(plot.dE_for_hist2d), 'eV'])
    if(args.save):
        if(args.output_file is None):
            args.output_file = abspath(default_out_basename + '.' + args.file_format)

        print ('Savig figure to file "%s" ...' % args.output_file)
        if(args.fig_resolution[0].upper() == 'H'):
            print (indent + '* High-resolution figure (600 dpi).')
            fig_resolution_in_dpi = 600
        elif (args.fig_resolution[0].upper() == 'M'):
            print (indent + '* Medium-resolution figure (300 dpi).')
            fig_resolution_in_dpi = 300
        elif (args.fig_resolution[0].upper() == 'L'):
            print (indent + '* Low-resolution figure (100 dpi).')
            fig_resolution_in_dpi = 100
        else:
            print (indent + 'Assuming medium-resolution (300 dpi) for the figure.')
            fig_resolution_in_dpi = 300
        plt.savefig(args.output_file, dpi=fig_resolution_in_dpi, bbox_inches='tight')
        print (indent + '* Done saving figure (%s).' % args.output_file)

    if args.saveshow:
        print ('Opening saved figure (%s)...' % default_out_basename)
        # 'xdg-open' might fail to find the defualt program in some systems
        # For such cases, one can try to use other alternatives (just add more to the list below)
        image_viewer_list = ['xdg-open', 'eog']
        for image_viewer in image_viewer_list:
            open_saved_fig = Popen([image_viewer, args.output_file], stdout=PIPE, stderr=PIPE)
            std_out, std_err = open_saved_fig.communicate()
            success_opening_file = std_err.strip() == ''
            if(success_opening_file):
                break
        if(not success_opening_file):
            print (indent + '* Failed (%s): no image viewer detected.' % default_out_basename)

    if args.show:
        print ('Showing figure (%s)...' % default_out_basename)
        plt.show()
        print (indent + '* Done showing figure (%s).' % default_out_basename)


if __name__ == '__main__':
    print_opening_message()
    plot_options = BandUpPlotOptions()
    plot = BandUpPlot(plot_options)
    make_plot(plot)
    sys.exit(0)


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Apr  3 20:18:49 2016
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 01:18:49 +0100
Subject: Plot/Graph
In-Reply-To: <10a26eef-d271-4202-902e-751eb5495a80@googlegroups.com>
References: <768f1e2e-baab-4ce3-ae4e-aab2d8ac5bf8@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.414.1459717472.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <20f8e8fb-0bb8-4daa-8d68-d0cc3699a6fc@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.416.1459719344.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <10a26eef-d271-4202-902e-751eb5495a80@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5701B2E9.3070106@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-04 01:04, Muhammad Ali wrote:
> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 2:35:58 PM UTC-7, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
>> On 3 Apr 2016 22:21, "Muhammad Ali" <muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >  How do I convert/change/modify python script so that my data could be
>> extracted according to python script and at the end it generates another
>> single extracted data file instead of displaying/showing some graph? So
>> that, I can manually plot the newly generated file (after data extraction)
>> by some other software like origin.
>>
>> It depends what you're computing and what format origin expects the data to
>> be in. Presumably it can use CSV files so take a look at the CSV module
>> which can write these.
>>
>> (You'll get better answers to a question like this if you show us some code
>> and ask a specific question about how to change it.)
>>
>> --
>> Oscar
>
> How could the python script be modified to generate data file rather than display a plot by using matplotlib?
>
>
> def make_plot(plot):
>      indent = plot.plot_options.indent
>      args = plot.plot_options.args
>      # Creating the plot
>      print ('Generating the plot...')
>      fig = plt.figure(figsize=(plot.fig_width_inches,plot.fig_height_inches))
>      ax = fig.add_subplot(111)
>      # Defining the color schemes.
>      print (indent + '>>> Using the "' + plot.cmap_name + '" colormap.')
>      if(plot.plot_options.using_default_cmap and not args.running_from_GUI):
>          print (2 * indent + 'Tip: You can try different colormaps by either:')
>          print (2 * indent + '     * Running the plot tool with the option -icmap n, ' \
>                 'with n in the range from 0 to', len(plot.plot_options.cmaps) - 1)
>          print (2 * indent + '     * Running the plot tool with the option "-cmap cmap_name".')
>          print (2 * indent + '> Take a look at')
>          print (4 * indent + '<http://matplotlib.org/examples/color/colormaps_reference.html>')
>          print (2 * indent + '  for a list of colormaps, or run')
>          print (4 * indent + '"./plot_unfolded_EBS_BandUP.py --help".')
>
>      # Building the countour plot from the read data
>      # Defining the (ki,Ej) grid.
>      if(args.interpolation is not None):
>          ki = np.linspace(plot.kmin, plot.kmax, 2 * len(set(plot.KptsCoords)) + 1, endpoint=True)
>          Ei = np.arange(plot.emin, plot.emax + plot.dE_for_hist2d, plot.dE_for_hist2d)
>          # Interpolating
>          grid_freq = griddata((plot.KptsCoords, plot.energies), plot.delta_Ns, (ki[None,:], Ei[:,None]),
>                               method=args.interpolation, fill_value=0.0)
>      else:
>          ki = np.unique(np.clip(plot.KptsCoords, plot.kmin, plot.kmax))
>          Ei = np.unique(np.clip(plot.energies, plot.emin,  plot.emax))
>          grid_freq = griddata((plot.KptsCoords, plot.energies), plot.delta_Ns, (ki[None,:], Ei[:,None]),
>                               method='nearest', fill_value=0.0)
>
>      if(not args.skip_grid_freq_clip):
>          grid_freq = grid_freq.clip(0.0) # Values smaller than zero are just noise.
>      # Normalizing and building the countour plot
>      manually_normalize_colorbar_min_and_maxval = False
>      if((args.maxval_for_colorbar is not None) or (args.minval_for_colorbar is not None)):
>          manually_normalize_colorbar_min_and_maxval = True
>          args.disable_auto_round_vmin_and_vmax = True
>          maxval_for_colorbar = args.maxval_for_colorbar
>          minval_for_colorbar = args.minval_for_colorbar
>      else:
>          if not args.disable_auto_round_vmin_and_vmax:
>              minval_for_colorbar = float(round(np.min(grid_freq)))
>              maxval_for_colorbar = float(round(np.max(grid_freq)))
>              args.round_cb = 0
>      if(manually_normalize_colorbar_min_and_maxval or not args.disable_auto_round_vmin_and_vmax):
>          modified_vmin_or_vmax = False
>          if not args.disable_auto_round_vmin_and_vmax and not args.running_from_GUI:
>              print (plot.indent + '* Automatically renormalizing color scale '\
>                     '(you can disable this with the option --disable_auto_round_vmin_and_vmax):')
>          if manually_normalize_colorbar_min_and_maxval:
>              print (plot.indent + '* Manually renormalizing color scale')
>          if(minval_for_colorbar is not None):
>              previous_vmin = np.min(grid_freq)
>              if(abs(previous_vmin - minval_for_colorbar) >= 0.1):
>                  modified_vmin_or_vmax = True
>                  print (2 * indent + 'Previous vmin = %.1f, new vmin = %.1f' % (previous_vmin,
>                                                                                 minval_for_colorbar))
>          else:
>              minval_for_colorbar = np.min(grid_freq)
>          if(maxval_for_colorbar is not None):
>              previous_vmax = np.max(grid_freq)
>              if(abs(previous_vmax - maxval_for_colorbar) >= 0.1):
>                  modified_vmin_or_vmax = True
>                  print (2 * indent + 'Previous vmax = %.1f, new vmax = %.1f' % (previous_vmax,
>                                                                                 maxval_for_colorbar))
>          else:
>              maxval_for_colorbar = np.max(grid_freq)
>          if(modified_vmin_or_vmax):
>              print (2 * indent + 'The previous vmin and vmax might be slightly different from '
>                                  'the min and max delta_Ns '
>                                  'due to the interpolation scheme used for the plot.')
>          # values > vmax will be set to vmax, and #<vmin will be set to vmin
>          grid_freq = grid_freq.clip(minval_for_colorbar, maxval_for_colorbar)
>          v = np.linspace(minval_for_colorbar, maxval_for_colorbar, args.n_levels, endpoint=True)
>      else:
>          v = np.linspace(np.min(grid_freq), np.max(grid_freq), args.n_levels, endpoint=True)
>      print (indent + '* Drawing contour plot...')
>      print (2 * indent + '> Using %i color levels. Use the option "--n_levels" to choose a different number.' %args.n_levels)
>      image = ax.contourf(ki, Ei, grid_freq, levels=v, cmap=plot.cmap)
>
>      plot_spin_proj_requested = args.plot_spin_perp or args.plot_spin_para or args.plot_sigma_x or args.plot_sigma_y or args.plot_sigma_z
>      if(plot_spin_proj_requested and plot.spin_projections is not None):
>          print (indent + '* Drawing spin projection info')
>          cmap_for_spin_plot = [plt.cm.bwr, plt.cm.RdBu, plt.cm.seismic_r][0]
>
>          if(args.clip_spin is None):
>              vmin_spin = np.min(plot.spin_projections)
>              vmax_spin = np.max(plot.spin_projections)
>          else:
>              vmax_spin = abs(args.clip_spin)
>              vmin_spin = -1.0 * abs(args.clip_spin)
>              print (2 * indent + '* New maxval for spin: %.2f' % vmax_spin)
>              print (2 * indent + '* New minval for spin: %.2f' % vmin_spin)
>
>          spin_projections = np.clip(plot.spin_projections, vmin_spin, vmax_spin)
>          grid_freq_spin = griddata((plot.KptsCoords, plot.energies), spin_projections, (ki[None,:], Ei[:,None]),
>                                    method='nearest', fill_value=0.0)
>
>          k_for_scatter = []
>          E_for_scatter = []
>          spin_projections_for_scatter = []
>          for iener in range(len(Ei)):
>              for ikpt in range(len(ki)):
>                  if(abs(grid_freq_spin[iener, ikpt]) > 1E-3):
>                      k_for_scatter.append(ki[ikpt])
>                      E_for_scatter.append(Ei[iener])
>                      spin_projections_for_scatter.append(grid_freq_spin[iener, ikpt])
>
>          if(spin_projections_for_scatter):
>              if(args.spin_marker=='o'):
>                  image2 = ax.scatter(k_for_scatter, E_for_scatter, marker='o',
>                                      s=[10.0 * abs(item) for item in spin_projections_for_scatter],
>                                      c=spin_projections_for_scatter, cmap=cmap_for_spin_plot)
>              else:
>                  image2 = ax.scatter(k_for_scatter, E_for_scatter, marker='_',
>                                      s=[500.0 * (ki[1] - ki[0]) for item in spin_projections_for_scatter],
>                                      linewidth=[100.0 * plot.dE_for_hist2d * (item ** 2) for item in spin_projections_for_scatter],
>                                      c=spin_projections_for_scatter, cmap=cmap_for_spin_plot)
>          else:
>              print (2 * indent + '* The abs values of the spin projections were all < 1E-3.')
>
>      #Preparing the plot
>      ax.set_xlim(plot.kmin, plot.kmax)
>      ax.set_ylim(plot.emin, plot.emax)
>      ax.set_title(plot.title, fontsize=plot.title_size)
>      ax.set_ylabel(plot.y_axis_label, fontsize=plot.yaxis_labels_size)
>      plt.yticks(fontsize=plot.tick_marks_size)
>
>      # Fermi energy line
>      show_E_f = not args.no_ef
>      if(show_E_f and plot.E_f >= plot.emin and plot.E_f <= plot.emax):
>          E_f_line = plt.axhline(y=plot.E_f, c=plot.color_E_f_line(image), linestyle=plot.line_style_E_f, lw=plot.line_width_E_f)
>      # High symmetry points lines
>      if(plot.pos_high_symm_points):
>          x_tiks_positions = [kx for kx in plot.pos_high_symm_points if kx - plot.kmax <= 1E-2 and kx >= plot.kmin]
>      if(args.no_symm_labels):
>          x_tiks_labels = []
>      else:
>          x_tiks_labels = [plot.labels_high_symm_lines[i] for i in range(len(plot.labels_high_symm_lines)) if
>                           plot.pos_high_symm_points[i] in x_tiks_positions]
>          x_tiks_labels = [xlabel for xlabel in x_tiks_labels if xlabel]
>      if x_tiks_labels:
>          print (indent + '* K-point labels read from the "' + args.kpoints_file + '" file:')
>          for ilabel in range(len(x_tiks_labels)):
>              print(2 * indent + "k = {:9.5f}".format(x_tiks_positions[ilabel]) + ', label =',\
>                     x_tiks_labels[ilabel])
>          plt.xticks(x_tiks_positions, x_tiks_labels, fontsize=plot.tick_marks_size)
>      else:
>          plot.x_axis_label = '$k \hspace{0.25} (\AA^{-1})$'
>          plt.locator_params(axis = 'x', nbins = 5)
>          ax.set_xlabel(plot.x_axis_label, fontsize=plot.xaxis_labels_size)
>          plt.xticks(fontsize=plot.tick_marks_size)
>      ax.tick_params(axis='x', pad=10)
>
>      # Drawing vertical lines at the positions of the high-symmetry points
>      if(not args.no_symm_lines):
>          for line_position in [pos for pos in plot.pos_high_symm_points if float(round(pos, 3)) > float(round(plot.kmin, 3)) and
>                                                                            float(round(pos, 3)) < float(round(plot.kmax, 3))]:
>              hs_lines = plt.axvline(x=line_position, c=plot.color_high_symm_lines(image), linestyle=plot.line_style_high_symm_points,
>                                     lw=plot.line_width_high_symm_points)
>
>      # Color bar
>      show_colorbar = not args.no_cb
>      if show_colorbar:
>          if plot.cb_orientation=='vertical':
>              cb_pad=0.005
>          else:
>              cb_pad=0.06
>          if(not x_tiks_labels):
>              cb_pad += 0.08 # To prevent the cb from overlapping with the numbers.
>
>          cb_yticks = np.arange(int(image.norm.vmin), int(image.norm.vmax) + 1, 1)
>
>          cb_ytick_labels = [round(item,abs(args.round_cb)) for item in cb_yticks]
>          cb = plt.colorbar(image, ax=ax, ticks=cb_yticks, orientation=plot.cb_orientation, pad=cb_pad)
>          cb.set_ticklabels(cb_ytick_labels)
>          cb.ax.tick_params(labelsize=plot.colorbar_tick_marks_size)
>
>          color_bar_label = None
>          if args.cb_label:
>              color_bar_label = ('$Color scale: \hspace{0.5} \delta N(\\vec{k}; ' +
>                                 '\hspace{0.25} \epsilon)$ ')
>          if args.cb_label_full:
>              color_bar_label = ('$Colors cale: \hspace{0.5} \delta N(\\vec{k}; ' +
>                                 '\hspace{0.25} \epsilon);$ '+
>                                 '$\delta\epsilon=' + round(1000.0*plot.dE_for_hist2d,0) +
>                                 '\\hspace{0.25} meV.$')
>
>          if plot.cb_orientation=='vertical':
>              cb_label_rotation = 90
>          else:
>              cb_label_rotation = 0
>          if color_bar_label:
>              cb.ax.text(plot.offset_x_text_colorbar, plot.offset_y_text_colorbar,
>                         color_bar_label, rotation=cb_label_rotation, ha='center',
>                         va='center', fontsize=plot.colorbar_label_size)
>
>      # Saving/showing the results
>      plt.tick_params(which='both', bottom='off', top='off', left='off', right='off',
>                      labelbottom='on')
>
>
>      default_out_basename = "_".join([splitext(basename(args.input_file))[0], 'E_from', str(plot.emin), 'to',
>                                      str(plot.emax), 'eV_dE',
>                                      str(plot.dE_for_hist2d), 'eV'])
>      if(args.save):
>          if(args.output_file is None):
>              args.output_file = abspath(default_out_basename + '.' + args.file_format)
>
>          print ('Savig figure to file "%s" ...' % args.output_file)
>          if(args.fig_resolution[0].upper() == 'H'):
>              print (indent + '* High-resolution figure (600 dpi).')
>              fig_resolution_in_dpi = 600
>          elif (args.fig_resolution[0].upper() == 'M'):
>              print (indent + '* Medium-resolution figure (300 dpi).')
>              fig_resolution_in_dpi = 300
>          elif (args.fig_resolution[0].upper() == 'L'):
>              print (indent + '* Low-resolution figure (100 dpi).')
>              fig_resolution_in_dpi = 100
>          else:
>              print (indent + 'Assuming medium-resolution (300 dpi) for the figure.')
>              fig_resolution_in_dpi = 300
>          plt.savefig(args.output_file, dpi=fig_resolution_in_dpi, bbox_inches='tight')
>          print (indent + '* Done saving figure (%s).' % args.output_file)
>
>      if args.saveshow:
>          print ('Opening saved figure (%s)...' % default_out_basename)
>          # 'xdg-open' might fail to find the defualt program in some systems
>          # For such cases, one can try to use other alternatives (just add more to the list below)
>          image_viewer_list = ['xdg-open', 'eog']
>          for image_viewer in image_viewer_list:
>              open_saved_fig = Popen([image_viewer, args.output_file], stdout=PIPE, stderr=PIPE)
>              std_out, std_err = open_saved_fig.communicate()
>              success_opening_file = std_err.strip() == ''
>              if(success_opening_file):
>                  break
>          if(not success_opening_file):
>              print (indent + '* Failed (%s): no image viewer detected.' % default_out_basename)
>
>      if args.show:
>          print ('Showing figure (%s)...' % default_out_basename)
>          plt.show()
>          print (indent + '* Done showing figure (%s).' % default_out_basename)
>
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>      print_opening_message()
>      plot_options = BandUpPlotOptions()
>      plot = BandUpPlot(plot_options)
>      make_plot(plot)
>      sys.exit(0)
>
Look at the line "if(args.save):". That decides whether to save.

Where does args come from? It comes from "args = 
plot.plot_options.args". "plot" is passed into "make_plot".

Where does that object come from? It comes from "plot = 
BandUpPlot(plot_options)".

Where does "plot_options" come from? It comes from "plot_options = 
BandUpPlotOptions()".

What's "BandUpPlotOptions()"? I have no idea. It's not part of what 
you've posted.

Now, over to you to do the rest. Maybe it's mentioned in matplotlib's docs.



From george.trojan at noaa.gov  Sun Apr  3 20:26:25 2016
From: george.trojan at noaa.gov (George Trojan)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 00:26:25 +0000
Subject: How to make sphinx to recognize functools.partial?
Message-ID: <5701B4B1.5000803@noaa.gov>

Yet another sphinx question. I am a beginner here.

I can't make sphinx to recognize the following (abbreviated) code:

'''
module description

:func:`~pipe` and :func:`~spipe` read data passed by LDM's `pqact`.

'''

def _pipe(f, *args):
     '''doc string'''
      pass

def _get_msg_spipe():
     '''another doc'''
      pass

spipe = functools.partial(_pipe, _get_msg_spipe)
spipe._doc_ = '''
     Loop over data feed on `stdin` from LDM via SPIPE.
'''

The word spipe is rendered correctly in html, but the link is not created.

I did put a print statement in sphinx/util/inspect.py, it appears that 
spipe definition is not recognized. I am running sphinx 1.3.5, according 
to CHANGELOG functools.partial support was added in 1.2.1.

George


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Apr  3 20:42:08 2016
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 01:42:08 +0100
Subject: How to make sphinx to recognize functools.partial?
In-Reply-To: <5701B4B1.5000803@noaa.gov>
References: <5701B4B1.5000803@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <5701B860.3050206@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-04 01:26, George Trojan wrote:
> Yet another sphinx question. I am a beginner here.
>
> I can't make sphinx to recognize the following (abbreviated) code:
>
> '''
> module description
>
> :func:`~pipe` and :func:`~spipe` read data passed by LDM's `pqact`.
>
> '''
>
> def _pipe(f, *args):
>       '''doc string'''
>        pass
>
> def _get_msg_spipe():
>       '''another doc'''
>        pass
>
> spipe = functools.partial(_pipe, _get_msg_spipe)
> spipe._doc_ = '''
>       Loop over data feed on `stdin` from LDM via SPIPE.
> '''
>
> The word spipe is rendered correctly in html, but the link is not created.
>
> I did put a print statement in sphinx/util/inspect.py, it appears that
> spipe definition is not recognized. I am running sphinx 1.3.5, according
> to CHANGELOG functools.partial support was added in 1.2.1.
>
Is it anything to do with "spipe._doc_"? Should that be "spipe.__doc__"?



From davidgshi at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Apr  4 02:09:40 2016
From: davidgshi at yahoo.co.uk (David Shi)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 06:09:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ONE CLICK REST API
References: <1841407921.3347562.1459750180103.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1841407921.3347562.1459750180103.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Eclipse has got one click app for creating REST services.
What is it equivalent in Python?
Regards.
David

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr  4 02:19:15 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 23:19:15 -0700
Subject: Threading is foobared?
In-Reply-To: <56FDF64C.2020101@msapiro.net>
References: <56FDF64C.2020101@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <57020763.70809@msapiro.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Random832 wrote:
> 
>> Any chance that it could fix reference headers to match?
>> 
>> Actually, merely prepending the original Message-ID itself to the
>> references header might be enough to change the reply's situation from
>> "nephew" ("reply to [missing] sibling") to "grandchild" ("reply to
>> [missing] reply"), which might be good enough to make threading work
>> right on most clients, and would be *easy* (whereas maintaining an
>> ongoing reversible mapping may not be).
>> 
>> And if it's not too much additional work, maybe throw in an
>> X-Mailman-Original-Message-ID (and -References if anything is done with
>> that) field, so that the original state can be recovered.
> 
> 
> I think these are good ideas. I'm going to try to do something along
> these lines.


This is now implemented on mail.python.org for python-list at python.org
and the others that gateway to Usenet.

I hope this will mitigate at least some of the threading issues.

As noted earlier in this thread, the original Message-ID: is appended,
not prepended to References:. More specifically, if there is a
References: header, the original Message-ID: is appended. If not, one is
created with the In-Reply-To: value if any and the original Message-ID:.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Apr  4 02:56:26 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2016 08:56:26 +0200
Subject: Sorting a list
References: <ndrn97$bco$1@dont-email.me>
 <mailman.408.1459711883.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <ndrt29$36l$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ndt36r$oi$1@ger.gmane.org>

DFS wrote:

> On 4/3/2016 3:31 PM, Peter Otten wrote:

>>>>> from operator import itemgetter as get
>>>>> print "\n".join("{1} {0}".format(*p) for p in sorted(
>> ... sorted(colCounts, key=get(1)), key=get(0), reverse=True))
> 
> Kind of clunky looking.  Is that why don't you recommend it?

That, and you produce two intermediate lists and an intermediate string. For 
larger input data this may produce significant overhead.

>> You could also cheat and use
>>
>> lambda v: (-v[0], v[1])
>>
>> and a single sorted().
> 
> That works well.  Why is it 'cheating'?

On second thought it isn't ;)



From gandalf at shopzeus.com  Mon Apr  4 03:12:11 2016
From: gandalf at shopzeus.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Nagy_L=c3=a1szl=c3=b3_Zsolt?=)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 09:12:11 +0200
Subject: ANN: intervalset Was: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <1459523394.2611014.565840994.593DD99A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
 <1459523394.2611014.565840994.593DD99A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <570213CB.8040101@shopzeus.com>


  Hi All,

If anyone is interested, a module was born:

https://bitbucket.org/nagylzs/intervalset
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/intervalset/0.1.1

I have some unit tests, but testers and comments are welcome.

Also see below.

>>  
>>   Hello,
>>
>> I need to compare sets of datetime intervals, and make set operations on
>> them: intersect, union, difference etc. One element of a set would be an
>> interval like this:
> Two thoughts on this: Such an object is not precisely a set* of
> datetimes, rather it is a set of nonintersecting intervals. 

Yes, you are right. It is a set of non-intersecting intervals.

> It could
> also be useful to have one for numbers (the datetime version could even
> maybe be implemented in terms of it)
Well, please check sources on bitbucket. You are more than welcome to
join the project.
>
>> element ::= (start_point_in_time, end_point_in_time)
>> intervalset ::= { element1, element2, .... }
> Are these open intervals or closed intervals?
Closed. In my particular implementation, there is a singleton for all
empty intervals. It is not possible to create an arbitrary interval with
the same starting and ending time (the singleton being the only
exception). I think that implementing open intervals would be much more
difficult, and we would have to know and use the smallest possible
increment (resolution) of the date/time type. Which may be platform
dependent.
>
> Also, how are you going to handle daylight savings?
Well, this little module only uses datetime instances and relies on the
datetime module for comparison. As far as datetime instances compare
correctly, this module will also work correctly.

Best,

   Laszlo





From gandalf at shopzeus.com  Mon Apr  4 03:16:55 2016
From: gandalf at shopzeus.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Nagy_L=c3=a1szl=c3=b3_Zsolt?=)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 09:16:55 +0200
Subject: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <CAGgTfkMeWgGd+ps=pyRE90QZmwc0HuRqQs0C+my-+Dk=Xrgz1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
 <CAGgTfkMeWgGd+ps=pyRE90QZmwc0HuRqQs0C+my-+Dk=Xrgz1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <570214E7.8040101@shopzeus.com>


>
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 1:32 AM Nagy L?szl? Zsolt <gandalf at shopzeus.com
> <mailto:gandalf at shopzeus.com>> wrote:
>
>     Does anyone know a library that already implements these functions?
>
>
> What do you not like about the ones on PyPI?
> https://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&term=interval&submit=search
There are a few, but none of them was implementing a set ot
non-intersecting intervals. AFAIK what I needed had no implementation
until now.
>
> Depending on the resolution you want, you might be able to use builtin
> sets for everything.
>
>     def interval(start, stop, precision=60):
>         a = round(start.timestamp(), precision)
>         b = round(stop.timestamp(), precision)
>         return set(range(a, b, precision))
>
I know, I was not clear in my request. A simple set will not unify
overlapping intervals, and cannot do set operations (union,
intersection, difference, symmetric difference).




From ganesh1pal at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 04:04:59 2016
From: ganesh1pal at gmail.com (Ganesh Pal)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 13:34:59 +0530
Subject: how to optimize the below code with a helper function
Message-ID: <CACT3xuUQc9wFPqG1DHM0ecwKE2J8KiFKFDui=FvWBqccAGLEoA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Team,

Iam on python 2.7.10 and Linux.

I have a  python function where the similar kind of pattern repeating 100
of times

Sample code snippet:

test01_log = os.path.join(LOG_DIR, "test01.log")
        cls.get_baddr['test01'] = failure.run_tool(
            test01_log, object="inode", offset="18", size="4",
            optype="set")

test02_log = os.path.join(LOG_DIR, "test02.log")
        cls.get_baddr['test02'] = failure.run_tool(
            test02_log, lin=lin_02, object="lin", offset="100", size="5",
            optype="set")
 ..............................................------------------------

test100_log = os.path.join(LOG_DIR, "test100.log")
        cls.get_baddr['test100'] = failure.run_tool(
            test02_log, baddr=lin_02, object="baddr", offset="100", size="5",
            optype="set")


(1)  Any tips how I can optimize this i.e test case, should have a helper
function that all test cases call.

(2) Also note that failure.run_tool function can have variable number of
argments  how to handle this in the helper function?



Thanks in advance


Regards,

Ganesh


From gandalf at shopzeus.com  Mon Apr  4 06:15:19 2016
From: gandalf at shopzeus.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Nagy_L=c3=a1szl=c3=b3_Zsolt?=)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 12:15:19 +0200
Subject: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <1459525537.2619077.565849418.5270FACE@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
 <1459525537.2619077.565849418.5270FACE@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <57023EB7.5010804@shopzeus.com>


>> element ::= (start_point_in_time, end_point_in_time)
>> intervalset ::= { element1, element2, .... }
>>
>> Operations on elements:
>
> Eh... I think these should be realized as operations on an intervalset
> with a single element, and that elements should simply have properties
> like the start, end, and if it's open or closed on each side. In
> particular, any one of these could return something that is not an
> element.
The way it is implemented now:

* Intersection of two intervals will always be a single interval. It is
easy to see why.
* Union of two intervals is possible only for overlapping and touching
intervals.
* These operations are also defined on intervals sets, but they work in
all cases (empty sets and sets with various elements).

The reason of introducing the intersection of two intervals is to create
an easy way to tell if they have a non-empty intersection. So if i1 and
i2 are intervals, you can do this:

if i1*i2:
    pass # They share a common non-empty interval

If you define the intersection operation on interval sets only, then you
need to write something like this:

if IntervalSet(i1)*IntervalSet(i2):
    pass

which is both uglier and an overkill.

>
>> element1.intersect(element2)
> May return the empty set, if they do not intersect.
It does indeed.
>
>> element1.union(element2)
> May return {element1, element 2}
I choose to raise a ValueError if they don't overlap or touch. In order
to get the union of them in a set, you simply write:

IntervalSet(element1, element2)

which will unify them correctly.



>
>
>> Operations on sets:
>>
>> intervalset1.intersect(intervalset2)
>> intervalset1.union(intervalset2)
>> intervalset1.minus(intervalset2)
> These should be operators. s1 & s2, s1 | s2, s1 - s2. There's also a s1
> ^ s2 operation for python sets, the symmetric difference.

Well, I used +, *. Do you think that & and | would be better?
>
> Wouldn't it be useful to have some operations on datetimes?
>
> intervalset1.ltall(dt)
> .... all(dt < x.start or dt == x.start and x.startopen for x in dt)
> intervalset1.gtall(dt)
> .... all(dt > x.end or dt == x.end and x.endopen for x in dt)
> intervalset1.leall(dt)
> .... all(dt <= x.start for x in intervalset1) # I _think_ this is all
> you need for this
> intervalset1.geall(dt)
> .... all(dt >= x.end for x in intervalset1)
> dt in intervalset1
> ... any(dt in elem for x in intervalset1)
> dt in elem
> ... dt > elem.start and dt < elem.end or dt == elem.start and not
> elem.startopen or dt == elem.end and not elem.endopen
> min and max
> ... seems trivial, but what to return if the first/last element is open?
You are encouraged to add a pull request. Although I did not implement
open intervals, only closed ones. Here is my reasoning:

  * datetime instances have a fixed resolution, an open interval would
    be equal to a "one step less" closed interval.
  * There is a semantical problem when your try to define relations
    between open and closed intervals. Is an open interval less then a
    closed one? Is the difference of an equally sized open and closed
    interval empty or not? Does it evaluate to True of False?
  * Practical usage (at least in my project) these intervals measure
    something: working time of an employee, driving time of a car etc.
    From that point of view, there is no real difference between an open
    and a close interval. (I can see that there should be a difference
    for scientific applications.)

>
> I'm truly shocked you didn't even mention the "in" operation.
Me too. Simply I didn't need it yet. Added to TODO list. Just I need to
figure out if the "in" operator should return True when the element is
*partly* in the set. ;-)
>
> Also, as long as we're setting up an infinite (not really but anyway)
> set, why not also have the ability to have open-ended intervals that
> extend to infinity. Then you could invert the set too, for free given
> the minus operation: ~x == {(-inf, inf)} - x.
Great idea. The empty interval can be (-inf, -inf) which is smaller than
anything.
> It occurs to me that while I mentioned numbers, in principle you could
> use _any_ total-ordered type*. strings, tuples...
Yes, that is true. In fact the current class could be easily generalized
to support any ordered type. But then, how do we mix our own infinity
with math.inf?
> *nitpicker's corner: here, "type" is used to mean any set/class/category
> of objects, possibly of multiple python types and possibly not
> comprising the entirety of a single type, which are total-ordered with
> respect to each other, including the codomain of any key projection
> function suitable for sorting.



From robin at reportlab.com  Mon Apr  4 06:27:25 2016
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 11:27:25 +0100
Subject: 2.7 source import in python 3.x
Message-ID: <5702418D.6080906@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

A user points out that this code in reportlab uses the now deprecated imp module

def _fake_import(fn,name):
     if os.path.isfile(fn):
         import imp
         with open(fn,'rb') as f:
             imp.load_source(name,fn,f)

and suggests I use importlib SourceFileLoader. Is there anything wrong with this 
code (only for use in python 3.x)


def _fake_import(fn,name):
     from importlib import machinery
     m = machinery.SourceFileLoader(name,fn)
     try:
         return m.load_module(name)
     except FileNotFoundError:
         raise ImportError('file %s not found' % ascii(fn))

the newer import machinery seems particularly complex so I'm not at all sure 
this does what I intend even though it seems to work.

The original function is only used once like this

> try:
>     _fake_import(os.path.expanduser(os.path.join('~','.reportlab_mods')),'reportlab_mods')
> except (ImportError,KeyError):
>     pass

and is intended to allow per user actions in a config file when reportlab is 
imported.

-- 
Robin Becker



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Apr  4 06:41:49 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2016 12:41:49 +0200
Subject: ANN: intervalset Was: Set type for datetime intervals
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
 <1459523394.2611014.565840994.593DD99A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <570213CB.8040101@shopzeus.com>
Message-ID: <ndtgde$f30$1@ger.gmane.org>

Nagy L?szl? Zsolt wrote:

> If anyone is interested, a module was born:
> 
> https://bitbucket.org/nagylzs/intervalset
> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/intervalset/0.1.1
> 
> I have some unit tests, but testers and comments are welcome.

Why do you limit the intervals to datetime? Are there any assumptions in 
your code that would make it fail with int values?

Personally I would use & | instead of * + -- Python is not Pascal ;)



From gandalf at shopzeus.com  Mon Apr  4 06:55:59 2016
From: gandalf at shopzeus.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Nagy_L=c3=a1szl=c3=b3_Zsolt?=)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 12:55:59 +0200
Subject: ANN: intervalset Was: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <ndtgde$f30$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
 <1459523394.2611014.565840994.593DD99A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <570213CB.8040101@shopzeus.com> <ndtgde$f30$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <5702483F.9040403@shopzeus.com>


> Why do you limit the intervals to datetime? Are there any assumptions in 
> your code that would make it fail with int values?

Just one. The empty interval is a singleton and I want it to be smaller
than any other interval.

UTC_ZERO = datetime.datetime.utcfromtimestamp(0)
EMPTY_INTERVAL = Interval(UTC_ZERO, UTC_ZERO) # TODO: how generalize
this for any ordered type?

Probably I could use Interval(None, None), and refactor my code.

The other problem would be __str__ and formatting, but that is easy to
generalize.

>
> Personally I would use & | instead of * + -- Python is not Pascal ;)
Operators changed to what you have suggested. (Also added ^ and
__contains__)

Thank you!



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Apr  4 07:15:04 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2016 13:15:04 +0200
Subject: 2.7 source import in python 3.x
References: <5702418D.6080906@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ndtibp$e5p$1@ger.gmane.org>

Robin Becker wrote:

> A user points out that this code in reportlab uses the now deprecated imp
> module
> 
> def _fake_import(fn,name):
>      if os.path.isfile(fn):
>          import imp
>          with open(fn,'rb') as f:
>              imp.load_source(name,fn,f)
> 
> and suggests I use importlib SourceFileLoader. Is there anything wrong
> with this code (only for use in python 3.x)
> 
> 
> def _fake_import(fn,name):
>      from importlib import machinery
>      m = machinery.SourceFileLoader(name,fn)
>      try:
>          return m.load_module(name)
>      except FileNotFoundError:
>          raise ImportError('file %s not found' % ascii(fn))
> 
> the newer import machinery seems particularly complex so I'm not at all
> sure this does what I intend even though it seems to work.

Seems like Python is one step ahead in the deprecation race. Quoting

https://docs.python.org/dev/library/importlib.html#importlib.machinery.SourceFileLoader.load_module

"""
load_module(name=None)
Concrete implementation of importlib.abc.Loader.load_module() where 
specifying the name of the module to load is optional.

Deprecated since version 3.6: Use importlib.abc.Loader.exec_module() 
instead.
"""

In the example section they have (for 3.4 and above)

spec = importlib.util.spec_from_file_location(module_name, file_path)
module = importlib.util.module_from_spec(spec)
spec.loader.exec_module(module)

The importlib with all its factories is a bit intimidating; perhaps it's 
best to stick with imp.load_source() and wait for some simple helper 
functions to appear...

> The original function is only used once like this
> 
>> try:
>>     
_fake_import(os.path.expanduser(os.path.join('~','.reportlab_mods')),'reportlab_mods')
>> except (ImportError,KeyError):
>>     pass
> 
> and is intended to allow per user actions in a config file when reportlab
> is imported.
> 




From animalize81 at hotmail.com  Mon Apr  4 07:24:49 2016
From: animalize81 at hotmail.com (animalize)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 19:24:49 +0800
Subject: Collection: weak error prompt drives beginner crazy
Message-ID: <BLU436-SMTP189131DC7B039D2FC5B84F8B69D0@phx.gbl>

An example, the file-name is conflict with library-name in stdlib or 
installed library.

There is a file uuid.py that only has two lines:

     import uuid
     print(uuid.uuid4())

Run uuid.py, output on Python 3.5.1:

     Traceback (most recent call last):
       File "D:\uuid.py", line 1, in <module>
         import uuid
       File "D:\uuid.py", line 3, in <module>
         print(uuid.uuid4())
     AttributeError: module 'uuid' has no attribute 'uuid4'

I was spending about an hour to find out what happend when I was a 
beginner, and I found I'm not the only one who confused by this problem.

If the prompt can be beginner-friendly a little bit, I think it's a very 
good thing.
E.g. says you are importing the file itself, rather than importing other 
file or library.


From gandalf at shopzeus.com  Mon Apr  4 07:25:38 2016
From: gandalf at shopzeus.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Nagy_L=c3=a1szl=c3=b3_Zsolt?=)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 13:25:38 +0200
Subject: ANN: intervalset Was: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <ndtgde$f30$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
 <1459523394.2611014.565840994.593DD99A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <570213CB.8040101@shopzeus.com> <ndtgde$f30$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <57024F32.5080404@shopzeus.com>


> Why do you limit the intervals to datetime? Are there any assumptions in 
> your code that would make it fail with int values?
It has been generalized. Now it can be used with any immutable ordered
type. :-)


From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 07:38:27 2016
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 07:38:27 -0400
Subject: Collection: weak error prompt drives beginner crazy
In-Reply-To: <BLU436-SMTP189131DC7B039D2FC5B84F8B69D0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU436-SMTP189131DC7B039D2FC5B84F8B69D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+zFbyfJTzO09843C=Fc03WUvHXHdh38wiQeN0-uFZ+4oQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 7:24 AM, animalize <animalize81 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> An example, the file-name is conflict with library-name in stdlib or
> installed library.
>
> There is a file uuid.py that only has two lines:
>
>     import uuid
>     print(uuid.uuid4())
>
> Run uuid.py, output on Python 3.5.1:
>
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "D:\uuid.py", line 1, in <module>
>         import uuid
>       File "D:\uuid.py", line 3, in <module>
>         print(uuid.uuid4())
>     AttributeError: module 'uuid' has no attribute 'uuid4'
>
> I was spending about an hour to find out what happend when I was a beginner,
> and I found I'm not the only one who confused by this problem.
>
> If the prompt can be beginner-friendly a little bit, I think it's a very
> good thing.
> E.g. says you are importing the file itself, rather than importing other
> file or library.

And how can python know that?
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays


From robin at reportlab.com  Mon Apr  4 07:51:27 2016
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 12:51:27 +0100
Subject: 2.7 source import in python 3.x
In-Reply-To: <ndtibp$e5p$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <5702418D.6080906@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <ndtibp$e5p$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <5702553F.2070303@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

On 04/04/2016 12:15, Peter Otten wrote:
..........
>
> In the example section they have (for 3.4 and above)
>
> spec = importlib.util.spec_from_file_location(module_name, file_path)
> module = importlib.util.module_from_spec(spec)
> spec.loader.exec_module(module)
>
> The importlib with all its factories is a bit intimidating; perhaps it's
> best to stick with imp.load_source() and wait for some simple helper
> functions to appear...
....

maybe two steps ahead :(

when I execute the example with python 3.4.2

> C:\code\hg-repos\reportlab>cat tmp\t1.py
> import importlib.util
> import sys
>
> # For illustrative purposes.
> import tokenize
> file_path = tokenize.__file__
> module_name = tokenize.__name__
>
> spec = importlib.util.spec_from_file_location(module_name, file_path)
> module = importlib.util.module_from_spec(spec)
> spec.loader.exec_module(module)
> # Optional; only necessary if you want to be able to import the module
> # by name later.
> sys.modules[module_name] = module
>
> C:\code\hg-repos\reportlab>\python34\python tmp\t1.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "tmp\t1.py", line 10, in <module>
>     module = importlib.util.module_from_spec(spec)
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'module_from_spec'

The example does work in python 3.5.0 so I guess the docs are a bit misleading.


-- 
Robin Becker



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Apr  4 08:21:17 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 13:21:17 +0100
Subject: Strange range
In-Reply-To: <570144A3.2040701@stoneleaf.us>
References: <87y48xjwqq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56fe76f2$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ndlvrt$1hlp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <mailman.311.1459521083.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh4xjt37.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1671ea2b-09ff-4745-a6e7-d2c57864cba3@googlegroups.com>
 <87zitbpwpr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.375.1459631138.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87vb3zpu49.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.391.1459665795.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87shz3p4a5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <570144A3.2040701@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <ndtm81$bnj$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 03/04/2016 17:28, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 04/02/2016 11:58 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> Stephen Hansen <me+python at ixokai.io>:
>
> I'm pretty sure that 99+% of the non-stdlib code out there is also
> completely inaccessible (or at least inconveniently accessible) to
> Stephen as well.
>

http://nullege.com/codes/search?cq=range would appear to be as good a 
starting point as any.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From random832 at fastmail.com  Mon Apr  4 09:40:42 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2016 09:40:42 -0400
Subject: Sorting a list
In-Reply-To: <ndt36r$oi$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <ndrn97$bco$1@dont-email.me>
 <mailman.408.1459711883.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <ndrt29$36l$1@dont-email.me> <ndt36r$oi$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1459777242.3422585.568322458.4B66944D@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016, at 02:56, Peter Otten wrote:
> > That works well.  Why is it 'cheating'?
> 
> On second thought it isn't ;)

It does require a numeric type, though. There are lots of types that are
orderable but do not have a negation operator that provides a key with
reversed ordering.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Apr  4 10:04:10 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 15:04:10 +0100
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <57004C62.8060304@gmail.com>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <ndmt1u$tfo$2@ger.gmane.org> <57004C62.8060304@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ndts8v$k8t$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 02/04/2016 23:49, Michael Torrie wrote:
> Mark, your messages are showing up to the list as being from "python,"
> at least on my email.  Any reason for this?
>

Assuming that you're referring to me, frankly I haven't a clue.  I read 
this list with Thunderbird on Windows, I hit "reply" to something, I 
type, I hit "send", job done.  Thereafter, as far as I'm concerned, a 
miracle occurs and hundreds if not thousands of subscribers get to see 
my reply.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From martin at linux-ip.net  Mon Apr  4 10:07:20 2016
From: martin at linux-ip.net (Martin A. Brown)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 07:07:20 -0700
Subject: how to optimize the below code with a helper function
In-Reply-To: <CACT3xuUQc9wFPqG1DHM0ecwKE2J8KiFKFDui=FvWBqccAGLEoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACT3xuUQc9wFPqG1DHM0ecwKE2J8KiFKFDui=FvWBqccAGLEoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604040639570.18407@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>


Greetings (again) Ganesh,

I notice that you ask about how to optimize the code, but I think 
what you mean is you want simpler code that is less repetitive and 
less copy/paste error-prone.  Is that correct?

Below, I make a few suggestions about how to simplify, although, 
there probably is further simplification that could be done.

>I am on python 2.7.10 and Linux.

Noted.  I tested my answer to your question on a Python 2.7, as 
well.

>I have a python function where the similar kind of pattern 
>repeating 100 of times

When you have a repetitive sequence of operations (or test cases, it 
looks like), you can often figure out a way to store the parameters 
as data.  When the parameters become data, then, the code becomes 
simpler.

>Sample code snippet:
>
>test01_log = os.path.join(LOG_DIR, "test01.log")
>        cls.get_baddr['test01'] = failure.run_tool(
>            test01_log, object="inode", offset="18", size="4",
>            optype="set")
>
>test02_log = os.path.join(LOG_DIR, "test02.log")
>        cls.get_baddr['test02'] = failure.run_tool(
>            test02_log, lin=lin_02, object="lin", offset="100", size="5",
>            optype="set")
> ..............................................------------------------
>
>test100_log = os.path.join(LOG_DIR, "test100.log")
>        cls.get_baddr['test100'] = failure.run_tool(
>            test02_log, baddr=lin_02, object="baddr", offset="100", size="5",
>            optype="set")

I observe that here in the failure.run_tool() call, the logfile is 
test02_log.  I would have expected it to be test100_log.  I'm 
guessing that this is exactly the sort of copy/paste error that you 
wish to avoid.

>(1)  Any tips how I can optimize this i.e test case, should have a helper
>function that all test cases call.

One function that jumps out very easily (to my eye) is a function to 
create the logfile name from the test case name.  You will see how I 
do that in the sample, so that you can call the run_tool function as 
you are currently calling it.

(You might consider putting the logfile name generation into the 
run_tool function, though, in which case, run_tool gets even simpler 
and you can get rid of my function, addLogFilename.  Hopefully, that 
makes sense to you....)

>(2) Also note that failure.run_tool function can have variable 
>number of argments how to handle this in the helper function?

A variable number of arguments:  this seems like the perfect case 
for using keyword arguments!

  https://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/controlflow.html#keyword-arguments

I have one additional observation about your sample code, Ganesh.  
When I read this:

  cls.get_baddr['test01'] = failure.run_tool(
           test01_log, object="inode", offset="18", size="4",
           optype="set")

I am guessing that you are calling an external program in your test.  
I also notice that you have string contents in your variables, for 
example, offset="18".  (That's part of why I guess you are calling 
an external program as part of your test.)

If you are calling an external command in 'run_tool', why not put 
the exact command-line you want to execute into the test data.  
This would simplify your code and makes the test more transparent, 
as well.

  d = dict()
  d['test01'] = dict(cmd=['some_command', '--offset', '18', '--size', '4'],
                     optype="set", object='inode')

Then, in run_tool, something like this:

  subprocess.Popen(cmd, shell=False, stderr=logfile)

But, these suggestions are all, basically, different riffs on the 
same basic idea:

  Where you have many testing scenarios, try to figure out a way to 
  store all of the test cases in data and then have the test runner 
  operate on the data.

Good luck,

-Martin


#! /usr/bin/python

from __future__ import absolute_import, division, print_function

import os
import sys
import logging


logging.basicConfig(stream=sys.stderr, level=logging.INFO)
logger = logging.getLogger(__name__)

LOG_DIR = '/var/log/frobnitz'


def createTestCases(LOG_DIR):
    '''create a test case data dictionary with parameters'''
    d = dict()
    d['test01'] = dict(object="inode", offset="18", size="4", optype="set")
    lin_02 = "something"
    d['test02'] = dict(object="lin", lin=lin_02, offset="18", size="5",
                       optype="set")
    d['test100'] = dict(object="baddr", baddr=lin_02, offset="100", size="5",
                        optype="set")
    return addLogFilename(d, LOG_DIR)


def run_tool(logfile, **kw):
    logger.info('%s would execute with %r', logfile, kw)


def addLogFilename(d, logdir):
    '''put the logfile name into the test case data dictionary'''
    for casename, args in d.items():
        args['logfile'] = os.path.join(logdir, casename + '.log')
    return d


def main():
    testcases = createTestCases(LOG_DIR)
    get_baddr = dict()
    for casename, kw in testcases.items():
        # -- yank the logfile name out of the dictionary, before calling func
        logfile = kw.pop('logfile')
        get_baddr[casename] = run_tool(logfile, **kw)


if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()

# -- end of file


-- 
Martin A. Brown
http://linux-ip.net/


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Apr  4 10:12:13 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2016 16:12:13 +0200
Subject: Sorting a list
References: <ndrn97$bco$1@dont-email.me>
 <mailman.408.1459711883.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <ndrt29$36l$1@dont-email.me> <ndt36r$oi$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1459777242.3422585.568322458.4B66944D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <ndtsnu$s0a$1@ger.gmane.org>

Random832 wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 4, 2016, at 02:56, Peter Otten wrote:
>> > That works well.  Why is it 'cheating'?
>> 
>> On second thought it isn't ;)
> 
> It does require a numeric type, though. There are lots of types that are
> orderable but do not have a negation operator that provides a key with
> reversed ordering.

If you are willing to accept the overhead you can use a wrapper class:

>>> import functools
>>> @functools.total_ordering
... class neg:
...     def __init__(self, key):
...         self.key = key
...     def __lt__(self, other):
...         return other.key < self.key
... 
>>> sorted("abcde", key=neg)
['e', 'd', 'c', 'b', 'a']




From martin at linux-ip.net  Mon Apr  4 10:45:19 2016
From: martin at linux-ip.net (Martin A. Brown)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 07:45:19 -0700
Subject: how to optimize the below code with a helper function
In-Reply-To: <CACT3xuUQc9wFPqG1DHM0ecwKE2J8KiFKFDui=FvWBqccAGLEoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACT3xuUQc9wFPqG1DHM0ecwKE2J8KiFKFDui=FvWBqccAGLEoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604040739440.18407@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>


Hello again,

>(1)  Any tips how I can optimize this i.e test case, should have a 
>helper function that all test cases call.
>
>(2) Also note that failure.run_tool function can have variable 
>number of argments how to handle this in the helper function?

Here's a little example of how you could coerce your problem into a 
ConfigParser-style configuration file.

With this example, I'd think you could also see how to create a 
config section called [lin_02] that contains the parameters you want 
for creating that object.  Then, it's a new problem to figure out 
how to refer to that object for one of your tests.

Anyway, this is just another way of answering the question of "how 
do I simplify this repetitive code".

Good luck and enjoy,

-Martin

#! /usr/bin/python

from __future__ import absolute_import, division, print_function

import os
import sys
import collections
from ConfigParser import SafeConfigParser as ConfigParser
import logging


logging.basicConfig(stream=sys.stderr, level=logging.INFO)
logger = logging.getLogger(__name__)

LOG_DIR = '/var/log/frobnitz'

def readCfgTestCases(cfgfile):
    data = collections.defaultdict(dict)
    parser = ConfigParser()
    parser.read(cfgfile)
    for section in parser.sections():
        for name, value in parser.items(section):
            data[section][name] = value
    return data

def main(cfgfile):
    testdata = readCfgTestCases(cfgfile)
    for k, v in testdata.items():
        print(k, v)


if __name__ == '__main__':
    main(sys.argv[1])

# -- end of file


# -- config file

[test01]
offset = 18
size = 4
object = inode
optype = set

[test02]
# -- no way to capture lin=lin_02; must reproduce contents of lin_02
object = lin
offset = 100
size = 5
optype = set


[test100]
# -- no way to capture baddr=lin_02; must reproduce contents of lin_02
object = baddr
offset = 100
size = 5
optype = set


-- 
Martin A. Brown
http://linux-ip.net/


From ned at nedbatchelder.com  Mon Apr  4 10:48:32 2016
From: ned at nedbatchelder.com (Ned Batchelder)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 07:48:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Collection: weak error prompt drives beginner crazy
In-Reply-To: <mailman.12.1459769484.32530.python-list@python.org>
References: <BLU436-SMTP189131DC7B039D2FC5B84F8B69D0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.12.1459769484.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f56d3ad4-5ff7-4fdb-a725-9082542b30eb@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 4, 2016 at 7:31:38 AM UTC-4, animalize wrote:
> An example, the file-name is conflict with library-name in stdlib or 
> installed library.
> 
> There is a file uuid.py that only has two lines:
> 
>      import uuid
>      print(uuid.uuid4())
> 
> Run uuid.py, output on Python 3.5.1:
> 
>      Traceback (most recent call last):
>        File "D:\uuid.py", line 1, in <module>
>          import uuid
>        File "D:\uuid.py", line 3, in <module>
>          print(uuid.uuid4())
>      AttributeError: module 'uuid' has no attribute 'uuid4'
> 
> I was spending about an hour to find out what happend when I was a 
> beginner, and I found I'm not the only one who confused by this problem.
> 
> If the prompt can be beginner-friendly a little bit, I think it's a very 
> good thing.
> E.g. says you are importing the file itself, rather than importing other 
> file or library.

I agree that it would be good if Python would be clear about this error.
I suggested as much on Python-Ideas a few months ago:
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/python-ideas/dNbXlL2XoJ8/discussion
or https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-ideas/2016-January/038165.html

The thread did not end with a strong opinion one way or the other, though
it did get distracted by other kinds of import mistakes.

--Ned.


From bc at freeuk.com  Mon Apr  4 10:51:32 2016
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 15:51:32 +0100
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.18.1459779296.32530.python-list@python.org>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <ndmt1u$tfo$2@ger.gmane.org> <57004C62.8060304@gmail.com>
 <ndts8v$k8t$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.18.1459779296.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ndturi$ipq$1@dont-email.me>

On 04/04/2016 15:04, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 02/04/2016 23:49, Michael Torrie wrote:
>> Mark, your messages are showing up to the list as being from "python,"
>> at least on my email.  Any reason for this?
>>
>
> Assuming that you're referring to me, frankly I haven't a clue.  I read
> this list with Thunderbird on Windows, I hit "reply" to something, I
> type, I hit "send", job done.  Thereafter, as far as I'm concerned, a
> miracle occurs and hundreds if not thousands of subscribers get to see
> my reply.

On the same setup, I click 'Followup' to reply to a post, which sends to 
the group.

Other options on the dropdown box below the Followup button are Reply 
and Reply All.

Clicking Reply (on your post) starts an email to you, while Reply All 
starts an email to you and to the group.

-- 
Bartc





From random832 at fastmail.com  Mon Apr  4 11:09:57 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2016 11:09:57 -0400
Subject: ANN: intervalset Was: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <570213CB.8040101@shopzeus.com>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
 <1459523394.2611014.565840994.593DD99A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <570213CB.8040101@shopzeus.com>
Message-ID: <1459782597.3444051.568344234.048046C6@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016, at 03:12, Nagy L?szl? Zsolt wrote:
> 
>   Hi All,
> 
> If anyone is interested, a module was born:
> 
> https://bitbucket.org/nagylzs/intervalset
> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/intervalset/0.1.1

I don't know if I like it being immutable. Maybe have separate mutable
and immutable versions.

Like I said before, I don't think the set-like operations on Intervals
are useful - what can you accomplish with them rather than by making a
set consisting of only one interval and doing operations on that?

> I have some unit tests, but testers and comments are welcome.
> 
> Also see below.
> 
> Yes, you are right. It is a set of non-intersecting intervals.
> 
> > It could
> > also be useful to have one for numbers (the datetime version could even
> > maybe be implemented in terms of it)
> Well, please check sources on bitbucket. You are more than welcome to
> join the project.
> >
> >> element ::= (start_point_in_time, end_point_in_time)
> >> intervalset ::= { element1, element2, .... }
> > Are these open intervals or closed intervals?
> Closed. In my particular implementation, there is a singleton for all
> empty intervals. It is not possible to create an arbitrary interval with
> the same starting and ending time (the singleton being the only
> exception).

An "arbitrary interval with the same starting and ending time" would be
more like an isolated datetime (i.e. 00:00 is in the set but 23:59 or
00:01 is not)

> I think that implementing open intervals would be much more
> difficult, and we would have to know and use the smallest possible
> increment (resolution) of the date/time type. Which may be platform
> dependent.

My suggestion was to use boolean flags, and to use that to control
whether to use < or <= to test for membership.

An open interval is more like an hour where 00:00 is included and
00:59:59.999999 is included but 01:00 is not. With discrete resolution
it's as simple as just moving the endpoint off by one unit, but I think
it'd be cleaner to use flags (you'd need it for numeric intervals, since
numeric types can have any resolution).

>    def __contains__(self, other):
>        """Containment relation.
>
>        Tell if `other` is contained *completely* in this set. The argument can either be an Interval or an
>        IntervalSet.
>        """

I don't think this is appropriate for this operation; this should be
__gt__. __contains__ should test a datetime (or whatever type item), not
another Interval/IntervalSet.


From random832 at fastmail.com  Mon Apr  4 11:19:47 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2016 11:19:47 -0400
Subject: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <57023EB7.5010804@shopzeus.com>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
 <1459525537.2619077.565849418.5270FACE@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57023EB7.5010804@shopzeus.com>
Message-ID: <1459783187.3446187.568436466.56DD4C77@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016, at 06:15, Nagy L?szl? Zsolt wrote:
> If you define the intersection operation on interval sets only, then you
> need to write something like this:
> 
> if IntervalSet(i1)*IntervalSet(i2):
>     pass
> 
> which is both uglier and an overkill.

I guess what I don't understand in this situation is why aren't i1 and
i2 already IntervalSets? I'm not sure I see why user code would be
working directly with Intervals at all. Any use for it could be replaced
with an IntervalSet constructor to directly make a set of one interval.


From nomail at com.invalid  Mon Apr  4 11:31:24 2016
From: nomail at com.invalid (ast)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 17:31:24 +0200
Subject: module alias in import statement
Message-ID: <570288d0$0$19758$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

hello

>>> import tkinter as tk
>>> import tk.ttk as ttk

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#3>", line 1, in <module>
    import tk.ttk as ttk
ImportError: No module named 'tk'


of course

>>> import tkinter.ttk as ttk

works

Strange, isn't it ?


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 11:32:32 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 16:32:32 +0100
Subject: ANN: intervalset Was: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <1459782597.3444051.568344234.048046C6@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
 <1459523394.2611014.565840994.593DD99A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <570213CB.8040101@shopzeus.com>
 <1459782597.3444051.568344234.048046C6@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxRRmJKHq-H8xotY9yF+pzG+7NOSMhOwTbL4qF-N4XjTfQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 4 April 2016 at 16:09, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 4, 2016, at 03:12, Nagy L?szl? Zsolt wrote:
>>
>>   Hi All,
>>
>> If anyone is interested, a module was born:
>>
>> https://bitbucket.org/nagylzs/intervalset
>> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/intervalset/0.1.1
>
> I don't know if I like it being immutable. Maybe have separate mutable
> and immutable versions.
>
> Like I said before, I don't think the set-like operations on Intervals
> are useful - what can you accomplish with them rather than by making a
> set consisting of only one interval and doing operations on that?

I guess it depends what your application is but sympy has interval
sets and can do computation on them to represent the solutions of
equations/inequalities (many other types of set are also included).
For example:

In [1]: from sympy import Interval

In [2]: Interval
Out[2]: sympy.core.sets.Interval

In [3]: Interval(1, 2)
Out[3]: [1, 2]

In [4]: help(Interval)


In [5]: Interval(1, 2) & Interval(3, 4)
Out[5]: ?

In [6]: Interval(1, 2) | Interval(3, 4)
Out[6]: [1, 2] ? [3, 4]

There is some discussion about why it's good to do this stuff with
sets (for sympy's purposes here):
http://docs.sympy.org/latest/modules/solvers/solveset.html#why-do-we-use-sets-as-an-output-type

--
Oscar


From random832 at fastmail.com  Mon Apr  4 11:44:23 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2016 11:44:23 -0400
Subject: ANN: intervalset Was: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <CAHVvXxRRmJKHq-H8xotY9yF+pzG+7NOSMhOwTbL4qF-N4XjTfQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
 <1459523394.2611014.565840994.593DD99A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <570213CB.8040101@shopzeus.com>
 <1459782597.3444051.568344234.048046C6@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAHVvXxRRmJKHq-H8xotY9yF+pzG+7NOSMhOwTbL4qF-N4XjTfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1459784663.3451967.568464658.50905009@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016, at 11:32, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
> On 4 April 2016 at 16:09, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
> > Like I said before, I don't think the set-like operations on Intervals
> > are useful - what can you accomplish with them rather than by making a
> > set consisting of only one interval and doing operations on that?
> 
> I guess it depends what your application is but sympy has interval
> sets and can do computation on them to represent the solutions of
> equations/inequalities (many other types of set are also included).

Yes, my question is why it's useful to have a single Interval as a
*distinct* type, separate from the interval set type, which supports a
sharply limited number of set-like operations (such as the union of two
overlapping intervals but NOT two non-overlapping ones). This doesn't
appear to be the case in sympy based on your examples.

Having an interval as a distinct type may be useful (to iterate over the
intervals of a set, for example), but his design blurs the line between
intervals and sets (by supporting some set operations) without
eliminating it as sympy seems to do.

> In [6]: Interval(1, 2) | Interval(3, 4)
> Out[6]: [1, 2] ? [3, 4]
> 
> There is some discussion about why it's good to do this stuff with
> sets (for sympy's purposes here):
> http://docs.sympy.org/latest/modules/solvers/solveset.html#why-do-we-use-sets-as-an-output-type


From martin at linux-ip.net  Mon Apr  4 11:46:52 2016
From: martin at linux-ip.net (Martin A. Brown)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 08:46:52 -0700
Subject: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604040843440.18407@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>


Greetings L?szl?,

>I need to compare sets of datetime intervals, and make set 
>operations on them: intersect, union, difference etc. One element 
>of a set would be an interval like this:
>
>element ::= (start_point_in_time, end_point_in_time)
>intervalset ::= { element1, element2, .... }
>
>Operations on elements:
>
>element1.intersect(element2)
>element1.union(element2)
>element1.minus(element2)
>
>Operations on sets:
>
>intervalset1.intersect(intervalset2)
>intervalset1.union(intervalset2)
>intervalset1.minus(intervalset2)
>
>Does anyone know a library that already implements these functions?

Sorry to be late to the party--I applaud that you have already 
crafted something to attack your problem.  When you first posted, 
there was a library that was tickling my memory, but I could not 
remember its (simple) name.  It occurred to me this morning, after 
you posted your new library:

  https://pypi.python.org/pypi/intervaltree

This handles overlapping ranges nicely and provides some tools for 
managing them.  Before posting this, I checked that it works with 
datetime types, and, unsurprisingly, it does.

Happy trails!

-Martin

-- 
Martin A. Brown
http://linux-ip.net/

From ned at nedbatchelder.com  Mon Apr  4 11:59:10 2016
From: ned at nedbatchelder.com (Ned Batchelder)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 08:59:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: module alias in import statement
In-Reply-To: <570288d0$0$19758$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <570288d0$0$19758$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <0bf822be-6eec-4a88-acd2-e0f17cab3b30@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 4, 2016 at 11:31:41 AM UTC-4, ast wrote:
> hello
> 
> >>> import tkinter as tk
> >>> import tk.ttk as ttk
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#3>", line 1, in <module>
>     import tk.ttk as ttk
> ImportError: No module named 'tk'
> 
> 
> of course
> 
> >>> import tkinter.ttk as ttk
> 
> works
> 
> Strange, isn't it ?

Yes, I can see that seeming strange.  There are two things to know about
how imports work that will help explain it:

First, import statements are really just special syntax for an assignment.
When you say "import tkinter as tk", it means (in pseudocode):

    tk = __import__("tkinter")

The module named "tkinter" is sought, and when found, executed, and the
resulting module object is assigned to the name "tk".

Second, notice that "import tkinter" doesn't try to evaluate "tkinter" as
an expression. If it did, that import would raise an error, because "tkinter"
isn't defined.

So in your code, you defined the name "tk" in the first line, but that
doesn't mean the name "tk" is available for you to use in the second line.

--Ned.


From amirul.1216 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 12:03:05 2016
From: amirul.1216 at gmail.com (Sk. Amirul Islam)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 21:33:05 +0530
Subject: troubleshooting
Message-ID: <CAFZh2aTUP7tUwRAe1d4=u4FcH7dXEbqpvH_BKjLTD9+jc-VthA@mail.gmail.com>

i recently installed the application but when i ran it it gave a 'runtime
error". i even reinstalled it. but it gives the same error everytime i try.
im eclosing a screenshot of the error . thank you


From ikorot01 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 12:14:53 2016
From: ikorot01 at gmail.com (Igor Korot)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 12:14:53 -0400
Subject: troubleshooting
In-Reply-To: <CAFZh2aTUP7tUwRAe1d4=u4FcH7dXEbqpvH_BKjLTD9+jc-VthA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFZh2aTUP7tUwRAe1d4=u4FcH7dXEbqpvH_BKjLTD9+jc-VthA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FnnTzy4VHVvjr4H5FEwtbSOpnOQgbYVeJeHuwx-MQgDK_ocQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Sk. Amirul Islam <amirul.1216 at gmail.com> wrote:
> i recently installed the application but when i ran it it gave a 'runtime
> error". i even reinstalled it. but it gives the same error everytime i try.
> im eclosing a screenshot of the error . thank you

Attachments are not going thru on this list.
You will need to cut and paste the error in the email. ;-)

Also, basic questions:
1. What OS are you running?
2 What version of OS are you running?
3. What version of python do you have?
4. Is all dependencies for this program are satisfied?

Thank you.

> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From steve at pearwood.info  Mon Apr  4 12:15:34 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 02:15:34 +1000
Subject: module alias in import statement
References: <570288d0$0$19758$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <57029328$0$1593$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 01:31 am, ast wrote:

> hello
> 
>>>> import tkinter as tk
>>>> import tk.ttk as ttk
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#3>", line 1, in <module>
>     import tk.ttk as ttk
> ImportError: No module named 'tk'
> 
> 
> of course
> 
>>>> import tkinter.ttk as ttk
> 
> works
> 
> Strange, isn't it ?

No. You have to understand what the import statement does.

"import tkinter" does at least three steps:

- locate a Python file called (for example) "tkinter.py", 
  or a package "tkinter/__init__.py"
- execute that module or package file to create a module object
- create a local variable "tkinter" bound to the module object.

In pseudo-code:

# import tkinter
path = find module("tkinter")
tkinter = execute(path)


"import tkinter as tk" changes the last step:

# import tkinter as tk
path = find module("tkinter")
tk = execute(path)


Running "import tkinter as tk" doesn't change the name of the module or
package on disk. It doesn't change (say) the directory "tkinter/" to "tk/".


What happens if there is a dot in the module name?

"import tkinter.ttk as ttk" is similar to above:

- first import the package "tkinter"
- then import the submodule "ttk" inside that package.

In other words:

- locate a directory called "tkinter", containing a file called
  "__init__.py"; this is the package;
- execute that file "tkinter/__init__.py" to create a module object
- create a local variable "tkinter" bound to that module object

- then locate the module or subpackage "ttk" inside that same 
  directory;
- execute that file "tkinter/ttk.py" (for example" to create a 
  module object;
- create a local variable "ttk" bound to that module object.



So you can see why this doesn't work:


import tkinter as tk
import tk.ttk as ttk


is looking for a directory on disk called "tk", which doesn't exist. The
name "tk" is only local to your code, it doesn't rename the directory on
disk.



The real import statement is much more complicated than this, but as a
simplified description, I hope this helps.


-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Mon Apr  4 12:24:36 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 02:24:36 +1000
Subject: troubleshooting
References: <CAFZh2aTUP7tUwRAe1d4=u4FcH7dXEbqpvH_BKjLTD9+jc-VthA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.26.1459786260.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57029546$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 02:03 am, Sk. Amirul Islam wrote:

> i recently installed the application but when i ran it it gave a 'runtime
> error". i even reinstalled it. but it gives the same error everytime i
> try. im eclosing a screenshot of the error . thank you

Hi. Which application are you talking about? If you mean Python, please tell
us exactly which version, where you downloaded it from, and most
importantly, what operating system and version you are using:

Linux, Mac OS X, Windows, FreeBSB, OpenBSB, Android, something else?

Which version of the OS?

A screenshot is of little or no use to us, I'm afraid. Firstly, that means
that people who are blind or visually impaired and are reading this using
screen-reader software cannot contribute. But more importantly, the
newsgroup is a "Text" newsgroup, not a "Binary" newsgroup, so attachments
are deleted.

Please copy and paste the text of the error, if you can. Otherwise, if it is
short, please retype it into your message. If it is too long to retype, you
can upload your screen shot to Imgur and then link to that.



-- 
Steven



From jabronson at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 12:47:34 2016
From: jabronson at gmail.com (Josh B.)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 09:47:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
Message-ID: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>

My package, available at https://github.com/jab/bidict, is currently laid out like this:

bidict/
??? __init__.py
??? _bidict.py
??? _common.py
??? _frozen.py
??? _loose.py
??? _named.py
??? _ordered.py
??? compat.py
??? util.py


I'd like to get some more feedback on a question about this layout that I originally asked here: <https://github.com/jab/bidict/pull/33#issuecomment-193877248>:

What do you think of the code layout, specifically the use of the _foo modules? It seems well-factored to me, but I haven't seen things laid out this way very often in other projects, and I'd like to do this as nicely as possible.

It does kind of bug me that you see the _foo modules in the output when you do things like this:

>>> import bidict
>>> bidict.bidict
<class 'bidict._bidict.bidict'>
>>> bidict.KeyExistsError
<class 'bidict._common.KeyExistsError'>


In https://github.com/jab/bidict/pull/33#issuecomment-205381351 a reviewer agrees:

"""
Me too, and it confuses people as to where you should be importing things from if you want to catch it, inviting code like

```
import bidict._common

try:
    ...
except bidict._common.KeyExistsError:
    ...
```
ie. becoming dependent on the package internal structure.

I would be tempted to monkey-patch .__module__ = __name__ on each imported class to get around this. Maybe there are downsides to doing magic of that kind, but dependencies on the internals of packages are such a problem for me in our very large codebase, that I'd probably do it anyway in order to really explicit about what the public API is.
"""

Curious what folks on this list recommend, or if there are best practices about this published somewhere.

Thanks,
Josh


From srkunze at mail.de  Mon Apr  4 13:03:11 2016
From: srkunze at mail.de (Sven R. Kunze)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 19:03:11 +0200
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
In-Reply-To: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <57029E4F.1070606@mail.de>

Hi Josh,

good question.

On 04.04.2016 18:47, Josh B. wrote:
> My package, available at https://github.com/jab/bidict, is currently laid out like this:
>
> bidict/
> ??? __init__.py
> ??? _bidict.py
> ??? _common.py
> ??? _frozen.py
> ??? _loose.py
> ??? _named.py
> ??? _ordered.py
> ??? compat.py
> ??? util.py
>
>
> I'd like to get some more feedback on a question about this layout that I originally asked here: <https://github.com/jab/bidict/pull/33#issuecomment-193877248>:
>
> What do you think of the code layout, specifically the use of the _foo modules? It seems well-factored to me, but I haven't seen things laid out this way very often in other projects, and I'd like to do this as nicely as possible.
>
> It does kind of bug me that you see the _foo modules in the output when you do things like this:
> [code]

we had a similar discussion internally. We have various packages 
requiring each other but have some internals that should not be used 
outside of them.

The _ signifies that actually clearly but it looks weird within the 
package itself.

We haven't found a solution so far. Maybe others do.


Best,
Sven


From rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid  Mon Apr  4 13:07:25 2016
From: rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid (Rob Gaddi)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 17:07:25 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python programs and relative imports
Message-ID: <ndu70d$m0t$1@dont-email.me>

Does anyone know the history of why relative imports are only available
for packages and not for "programs"?  It certainly complicates life.

-- 
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com
Email address domain is currently out of order.  See above to fix.


From hawkowl at atleastfornow.net  Mon Apr  4 13:10:23 2016
From: hawkowl at atleastfornow.net (Amber "Hawkie" Brown)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 01:10:23 +0800
Subject: Twisted 16.1 Release Announcement
Message-ID: <367BC573-64FD-4694-ADA1-C78B5D45E257@atleastfornow.net>

On behalf of Twisted Matrix Laboratories, I am honoured to announce the release of Twisted 16.1!

This release is hot off the heels of 16.0 released last month, including some nice little tidbits. The highlights include:

- twisted.application.internet.ClientService, a service that maintains a persistent outgoing endpoint-based connection -- a replacement for ReconnectingClientFactory that uses modern APIs;
- A large (77% on one benchmark) performance improvement when using twisted.web's client on PyPy;
- A few conch modules have been ported to Python 3, in preparation for further porting of the SSH functionality;
- Full support for OpenSSL 1.0.2f and above;
- t.web.http.Request.addCookie now accepts Unicode and bytes keys/values;
- `twistd manhole` no longer uses a hard-coded SSH host key, and will generate one for you on the fly (this adds a 'appdirs' PyPI dependency, installing with [conch] will add it automatically);
- Over eighteen tickets overall closed since 16.0.

For more information, check the NEWS file (link provided below).

You can find the downloads at <https://pypi.python.org/pypi/Twisted> (or alternatively <http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/Downloads>). The NEWS file is also available at <https://github.com/twisted/twisted/blob/twisted-16.1.0/NEWS>.

Many thanks to everyone who had a part in this release - the supporters of the Twisted Software Foundation, the developers who contributed code as well as documentation, and all the people building great things with Twisted!

Twisted Regards,
Amber Brown (HawkOwl)
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From michael.selik at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 14:45:35 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2016 18:45:35 +0000
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
In-Reply-To: <57029E4F.1070606@mail.de>
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
 <57029E4F.1070606@mail.de>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkOALRxNhdk=aAn1N1ZFMTK8aCEPG0M6gTXfufyU34cBuQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 6:04 PM Sven R. Kunze <srkunze at mail.de> wrote:

> Hi Josh,
>
> good question.
>
> On 04.04.2016 18:47, Josh B. wrote:
> > My package, available at https://github.com/jab/bidict, is currently
> laid out like this:
> >
> > bidict/
> > ??? __init__.py
> > ??? _bidict.py
> > ??? _common.py
> > ??? _frozen.py
> > ??? _loose.py
> > ??? _named.py
> > ??? _ordered.py
> > ??? compat.py
> > ??? util.py
> >
> >
> > I'd like to get some more feedback on a question about this layout that
> I originally asked here: <
> https://github.com/jab/bidict/pull/33#issuecomment-193877248>:
> >
> > What do you think of the code layout, specifically the use of the _foo
> modules? It seems well-factored to me, but I haven't seen things laid out
> this way very often in other projects, and I'd like to do this as nicely as
> possible.
>

Using the _module.py convention for internals is fine, except that you have
few enough lines of code that you could have far fewer files. Why create a
package when you can just have a module, bidict.py?

I find it easier to find the right section of my code when I have just a
few files open rather than a dozen or so in different windows and tabs.


From best_lay at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  4 15:42:45 2016
From: best_lay at yahoo.com (Wildman)
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2016 14:42:45 -0500
Subject: Request Help With Function
Message-ID: <-JSdnXtfvv0oXp_KnZ2dnUU7-evNnZ2d@giganews.com>

I am working on a Linux gui program where I want to be able
to click a Help button and open a man page using a viewer.
I wrote a search function that can be called several times,
if needed, with different arguments.  I wrote a test program
that tries to open the Bash man page in a terminal and will
display a message box if the search fails.  It passes the
system path, terminal emulators and command line arguments
to the search function.  I appears that you can't pass a list
to a function so I am passing the arguments as strings and then
converting them to lists for parsing in the search function.

When I run the test program, I get this error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./man.py", line 38, in <module>
    launch_help()
  File "./man.py", line 10, in launch_help
    if search(pathlist, executelist, commandlist):
  File "./man.py", line 27, in search
    subprocess.Popen(command)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/subprocess.py", line 710, in __init__
    errread, errwrite)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/subprocess.py", line 1335, in _execute_child
    raise child_exception
TypeError: execv() arg 2 must contain only strings

I have not been able to figure out why I'm getting the error.
Any help would be appreciated.  Below is the complete code for
the test program:

#!/usr/bin/env python

import os, subprocess, tkMessageBox

def launch_help():
    pathlist = os.environ["PATH"]
    executelist = "xvt,xfce4-terminal"
    commandlist = "-e,man bash"
    if search(pathlist, executelist, commandlist):
        return None
    message = "Open a terminal and enter:  man bash"
    tkMessageBox.showinfo("Help", message)

def search(pathlist, executelist, commandlist):
    pathlist = pathlist.split(":")
    executelist = executelist.split(",")
    commandlist = commandlist.split(",")
    done = False
    for path in pathlist:
        for execute in executelist:
            target = path + "/" + execute
            if os.path.isfile(target):
                done = True
                command = [target, commandlist]
                subprocess.Popen(command)
            if done:
                break
        if done:
            break
    if done:
        return True
    else:
        return False


launch_help()

-- 
<Wildman> GNU/Linux user #557453
The cow died so I don't need your bull!


From mohdhg at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  4 15:51:15 2016
From: mohdhg at yahoo.com (Mohamed Ali)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 19:51:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How can I install
References: <924298918.2164574.1459799475818.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <924298918.2164574.1459799475818.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>


I have tried to install python and nltk but I couldn't. Please could you please help me because I need to work on natural language processing using Python.

Regards,Mohamed


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 15:54:56 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 13:54:56 -0600
Subject: Request Help With Function
In-Reply-To: <-JSdnXtfvv0oXp_KnZ2dnUU7-evNnZ2d@giganews.com>
References: <-JSdnXtfvv0oXp_KnZ2dnUU7-evNnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidn6=DENyUGvri9af4qYiQRCU_2tCR27TzMUWw+zO_Yx9Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Wildman via Python-list
<python-list at python.org> wrote:
>     commandlist = commandlist.split(",")

commandlist is a list.

>                 command = [target, commandlist]
>                 subprocess.Popen(command)

This is passing a list containing two elements: the first is a string,
and the second is a list of strings. You should just pass a list of
strings. Probably you wanted to do this:

    command = [target] + commandlist


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Apr  4 16:02:53 2016
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 21:02:53 +0100
Subject: Request Help With Function
In-Reply-To: <-JSdnXtfvv0oXp_KnZ2dnUU7-evNnZ2d@giganews.com>
References: <-JSdnXtfvv0oXp_KnZ2dnUU7-evNnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <5702C86D.9080308@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-04 20:42, Wildman via Python-list wrote:
> I am working on a Linux gui program where I want to be able
> to click a Help button and open a man page using a viewer.
> I wrote a search function that can be called several times,
> if needed, with different arguments.  I wrote a test program
> that tries to open the Bash man page in a terminal and will
> display a message box if the search fails.  It passes the
> system path, terminal emulators and command line arguments
> to the search function.  I appears that you can't pass a list
> to a function so I am passing the arguments as strings and then
> converting them to lists for parsing in the search function.
>
> When I run the test program, I get this error:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "./man.py", line 38, in <module>
>      launch_help()
>    File "./man.py", line 10, in launch_help
>      if search(pathlist, executelist, commandlist):
>    File "./man.py", line 27, in search
>      subprocess.Popen(command)
>    File "/usr/lib/python2.7/subprocess.py", line 710, in __init__
>      errread, errwrite)
>    File "/usr/lib/python2.7/subprocess.py", line 1335, in _execute_child
>      raise child_exception
> TypeError: execv() arg 2 must contain only strings
>
> I have not been able to figure out why I'm getting the error.
> Any help would be appreciated.  Below is the complete code for
> the test program:
>
> #!/usr/bin/env python
>
> import os, subprocess, tkMessageBox
>
> def launch_help():
>      pathlist = os.environ["PATH"]
>      executelist = "xvt,xfce4-terminal"
>      commandlist = "-e,man bash"
>      if search(pathlist, executelist, commandlist):
>          return None
>      message = "Open a terminal and enter:  man bash"
>      tkMessageBox.showinfo("Help", message)
>
> def search(pathlist, executelist, commandlist):
>      pathlist = pathlist.split(":")
>      executelist = executelist.split(",")
>      commandlist = commandlist.split(",")
>      done = False
>      for path in pathlist:
>          for execute in executelist:
>              target = path + "/" + execute
>              if os.path.isfile(target):
>                  done = True
>                  command = [target, commandlist]
>                  subprocess.Popen(command)
>              if done:
>                  break
>          if done:
>              break
>      if done:
>          return True
>      else:
>          return False
>
>
> launch_help()
>
.Popen will accept either a string or a list of strings.

You're giving it a list that contains a string and a list.

BTW, I don't know what you mean by "you can't pass a list to a 
function", because you can. How were you trying to do it?



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Apr  4 16:05:18 2016
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 21:05:18 +0100
Subject: How can I install
In-Reply-To: <924298918.2164574.1459799475818.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <924298918.2164574.1459799475818.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <924298918.2164574.1459799475818.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5702C8FE.1040405@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-04 20:51, Mohamed Ali via Python-list wrote:
>
> I have tried to install python and nltk but I couldn't. Please could you please help me because I need to work on natural language processing using Python.
>
You haven't given any details.



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Apr  4 16:15:46 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 21:15:46 +0100
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
In-Reply-To: <CAGgTfkOALRxNhdk=aAn1N1ZFMTK8aCEPG0M6gTXfufyU34cBuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
 <57029E4F.1070606@mail.de>
 <CAGgTfkOALRxNhdk=aAn1N1ZFMTK8aCEPG0M6gTXfufyU34cBuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ndui1m$7hg$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 04/04/2016 19:45, Michael Selik wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 6:04 PM Sven R. Kunze <srkunze at mail.de> wrote:
>
>> Hi Josh,
>>
>> good question.
>>
>> On 04.04.2016 18:47, Josh B. wrote:
>>> My package, available at https://github.com/jab/bidict, is currently
>> laid out like this:
>>>
>>> bidict/
>>> ??? __init__.py
>>> ??? _bidict.py
>>> ??? _common.py
>>> ??? _frozen.py
>>> ??? _loose.py
>>> ??? _named.py
>>> ??? _ordered.py
>>> ??? compat.py
>>> ??? util.py
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd like to get some more feedback on a question about this layout that
>> I originally asked here: <
>> https://github.com/jab/bidict/pull/33#issuecomment-193877248>:
>>>
>>> What do you think of the code layout, specifically the use of the _foo
>> modules? It seems well-factored to me, but I haven't seen things laid out
>> this way very often in other projects, and I'd like to do this as nicely as
>> possible.
>>
>
> Using the _module.py convention for internals is fine, except that you have
> few enough lines of code that you could have far fewer files. Why create a
> package when you can just have a module, bidict.py?
>
> I find it easier to find the right section of my code when I have just a
> few files open rather than a dozen or so in different windows and tabs.
>

+1

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From stevenruidigao at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 16:19:24 2016
From: stevenruidigao at gmail.com (Steven Gao)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 16:19:24 -0400
Subject: IDLE's subprocess didn't make connection. Either IDLE can't start
 or personal firewall software is blocking connection.
Message-ID: <5702cc47.8f341f0a.a5801.5cd4@mx.google.com>

I?m getting ?IDLE's subprocess didn't make connection. Either IDLE can't start or personal firewall software is blocking connection.?. Any ideas?

Sent from Mail for Windows 10



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Apr  4 16:46:32 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 21:46:32 +0100
Subject: IDLE's subprocess didn't make connection. Either IDLE can't start
 or personal firewall software is blocking connection.
In-Reply-To: <5702cc47.8f341f0a.a5801.5cd4@mx.google.com>
References: <5702cc47.8f341f0a.a5801.5cd4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <ndujrc$2rj$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 04/04/2016 21:19, Steven Gao wrote:
> I?m getting ?IDLE's subprocess didn't make connection. Either IDLE can't start or personal firewall software is blocking connection.?. Any ideas?
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>

Asked and answered repeatedly, please search the archives for the answer.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Apr  4 16:46:52 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 16:46:52 -0400
Subject: module alias in import statement
In-Reply-To: <570288d0$0$19758$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <570288d0$0$19758$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <ndujs3$7n6$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/4/2016 11:31 AM, ast wrote:
> hello
>
>>>> import tkinter as tk
>>>> import tk.ttk as ttk
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#3>", line 1, in <module>
>     import tk.ttk as ttk
> ImportError: No module named 'tk'
>
>
> of course
>
>>>> import tkinter.ttk as ttk
>
> works
>
> Strange, isn't it ?

Nope. As other said, 'import tkinter as tk' imports a module named 
'tkinter' and *in the importing modules, and only in the importing 
module*, binds the module to 'tk'.  It also caches the module in 
sys.modules under its real name, 'tkinter'.

 >>> import tkinter as tk
 >>> import sys
 >>> 'tkinter' in sys.modules
True
 >>> 'tk' in sys.modules
False

'import tk.ttk' looks for 'tk' in sys.modules, does not find it, looks 
for a module named 'tk' on disk, does not find it, and says so.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Apr  4 16:49:10 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 06:49:10 +1000
Subject: [Beginner] - Hanging in the code, can't figure out what's wrong
References: <66afb6f1-ca2b-4f9b-a1ec-ed255fa3030f@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpfno$fdh$1@dont-email.me>
 <e2cbbcf8-86f4-4c14-989e-1d8046d4215c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpgql$im4$1@dont-email.me>
 <03c7da56-c752-460f-98b1-84b7166a2cc3@googlegroups.com>
 <ndpmuo$4sq$1@dont-email.me>
 <32c7ba6b-b61d-45fb-89a8-dd62aa09fe78@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.409.1459712951.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <686d7aab-4020-4840-a1b7-fce8e89c6633@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.412.1459714509.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <6d022206-5f4d-4ac9-be50-76ce74ef48c0@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.415.1459718820.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <1d02705b-00aa-4882-a54d-9bb1c162ce29@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8537r185h5.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

"Loop.IO" <thisisink01 at gmail.com> writes:

> You now seem to be on some sort of rampage

You've mis-interpreted Erik's attempts to help. Somehow the requests for
details have made you defensive; I'm not sure why. Erik certainly was
not being hostile to you.

Hopefully you can take a more dispassionate position when you ask the
volunteers here for help next time.

-- 
 \         ?Education is learning what you didn't even know you didn't |
  `\                  know.? ?Daniel J. Boorstin, historian, 1914?2004 |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Apr  4 17:09:34 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 17:09:34 -0400
Subject: IDLE's subprocess didn't make connection. Either IDLE can't start
 or personal firewall software is blocking connection.
In-Reply-To: <5702cc47.8f341f0a.a5801.5cd4@mx.google.com>
References: <5702cc47.8f341f0a.a5801.5cd4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <ndul6l$sia$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/4/2016 4:19 PM, Steven Gao wrote:
> I?m getting ?IDLE's subprocess didn't make connection. Either IDLE can't start or personal firewall software is blocking connection.?. Any ideas?

Depending on how you started, another possibility is a file in your 
local directory that masks a stdlib module.  Or a network (socket) 
configuration issue.


-- 
Terry Jan Reedy




From yuriarmellei at casadocredito.com.br  Mon Apr  4 18:22:56 2016
From: yuriarmellei at casadocredito.com.br (Yuri Armellei)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 22:22:56 +0000
Subject: Trouble trying to install Python 3.5.1 (32-bit) for windows
Message-ID: <GRUPR80MB12171A5A064E35686961E55F29D0@GRUPR80MB121.lamprd80.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Python,

I  encountered difficulties when installing  the python.

Could you guys help me to solve and install it?!

Attached log error  to  help you guys to help me out. =)  ;)

Regards,



[cid:image001.png at 01D18EA7.4A69B7E0]


[cid:image006.jpg at 01D152DC.ACCAF540]

Yuri Armellei
Tesouraria
Tel.: +55 11 3034-5004 - Cel.: (11) 9.9916-8323
www.casadocredito.com.br<http://www.casadocredito.com.br>

Av. Queiroz Filho, 1700 - Torre E - 9?. andar - conj. 907
Vila Hamburguesa - S?o Paulo - SP - Brasil - 05319-000


________________________________
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From muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 18:35:19 2016
From: muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com (Muhammad Ali)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 15:35:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Plot/Graph
In-Reply-To: <mailman.420.1459729142.28225.python-list@python.org>
References: <768f1e2e-baab-4ce3-ae4e-aab2d8ac5bf8@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.414.1459717472.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <20f8e8fb-0bb8-4daa-8d68-d0cc3699a6fc@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.416.1459719344.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <10a26eef-d271-4202-902e-751eb5495a80@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.420.1459729142.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2368d5c-eafb-4fe5-a233-f25b82f5521b@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 5:19:15 PM UTC-7, MRAB wrote:
> On 2016-04-04 01:04, Muhammad Ali wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 2:35:58 PM UTC-7, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
> >> On 3 Apr 2016 22:21, "Muhammad Ali" <muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >  How do I convert/change/modify python script so that my data could be
> >> extracted according to python script and at the end it generates another
> >> single extracted data file instead of displaying/showing some graph? So
> >> that, I can manually plot the newly generated file (after data extraction)
> >> by some other software like origin.
> >>
> >> It depends what you're computing and what format origin expects the data to
> >> be in. Presumably it can use CSV files so take a look at the CSV module
> >> which can write these.
> >>
> >> (You'll get better answers to a question like this if you show us some code
> >> and ask a specific question about how to change it.)
> >>
> >> --
> >> Oscar
> >
> > How could the python script be modified to generate data file rather than display a plot by using matplotlib?
> >
> >
> > def make_plot(plot):
> >      indent = plot.plot_options.indent
> >      args = plot.plot_options.args
> >      # Creating the plot
> >      print ('Generating the plot...')
> >      fig = plt.figure(figsize=(plot.fig_width_inches,plot.fig_height_inches))
> >      ax = fig.add_subplot(111)
> >      # Defining the color schemes.
> >      print (indent + '>>> Using the "' + plot.cmap_name + '" colormap.')
> >      if(plot.plot_options.using_default_cmap and not args.running_from_GUI):
> >          print (2 * indent + 'Tip: You can try different colormaps by either:')
> >          print (2 * indent + '     * Running the plot tool with the option -icmap n, ' \
> >                 'with n in the range from 0 to', len(plot.plot_options.cmaps) - 1)
> >          print (2 * indent + '     * Running the plot tool with the option "-cmap cmap_name".')
> >          print (2 * indent + '> Take a look at')
> >          print (4 * indent + '<http://matplotlib.org/examples/color/colormaps_reference.html>')
> >          print (2 * indent + '  for a list of colormaps, or run')
> >          print (4 * indent + '"./plot_unfolded_EBS_BandUP.py --help".')
> >
> >      # Building the countour plot from the read data
> >      # Defining the (ki,Ej) grid.
> >      if(args.interpolation is not None):
> >          ki = np.linspace(plot.kmin, plot.kmax, 2 * len(set(plot.KptsCoords)) + 1, endpoint=True)
> >          Ei = np.arange(plot.emin, plot.emax + plot.dE_for_hist2d, plot.dE_for_hist2d)
> >          # Interpolating
> >          grid_freq = griddata((plot.KptsCoords, plot.energies), plot.delta_Ns, (ki[None,:], Ei[:,None]),
> >                               method=args.interpolation, fill_value=0.0)
> >      else:
> >          ki = np.unique(np.clip(plot.KptsCoords, plot.kmin, plot.kmax))
> >          Ei = np.unique(np.clip(plot.energies, plot.emin,  plot.emax))
> >          grid_freq = griddata((plot.KptsCoords, plot.energies), plot.delta_Ns, (ki[None,:], Ei[:,None]),
> >                               method='nearest', fill_value=0.0)
> >
> >      if(not args.skip_grid_freq_clip):
> >          grid_freq = grid_freq.clip(0.0) # Values smaller than zero are just noise.
> >      # Normalizing and building the countour plot
> >      manually_normalize_colorbar_min_and_maxval = False
> >      if((args.maxval_for_colorbar is not None) or (args.minval_for_colorbar is not None)):
> >          manually_normalize_colorbar_min_and_maxval = True
> >          args.disable_auto_round_vmin_and_vmax = True
> >          maxval_for_colorbar = args.maxval_for_colorbar
> >          minval_for_colorbar = args.minval_for_colorbar
> >      else:
> >          if not args.disable_auto_round_vmin_and_vmax:
> >              minval_for_colorbar = float(round(np.min(grid_freq)))
> >              maxval_for_colorbar = float(round(np.max(grid_freq)))
> >              args.round_cb = 0
> >      if(manually_normalize_colorbar_min_and_maxval or not args.disable_auto_round_vmin_and_vmax):
> >          modified_vmin_or_vmax = False
> >          if not args.disable_auto_round_vmin_and_vmax and not args.running_from_GUI:
> >              print (plot.indent + '* Automatically renormalizing color scale '\
> >                     '(you can disable this with the option --disable_auto_round_vmin_and_vmax):')
> >          if manually_normalize_colorbar_min_and_maxval:
> >              print (plot.indent + '* Manually renormalizing color scale')
> >          if(minval_for_colorbar is not None):
> >              previous_vmin = np.min(grid_freq)
> >              if(abs(previous_vmin - minval_for_colorbar) >= 0.1):
> >                  modified_vmin_or_vmax = True
> >                  print (2 * indent + 'Previous vmin = %.1f, new vmin = %.1f' % (previous_vmin,
> >                                                                                 minval_for_colorbar))
> >          else:
> >              minval_for_colorbar = np.min(grid_freq)
> >          if(maxval_for_colorbar is not None):
> >              previous_vmax = np.max(grid_freq)
> >              if(abs(previous_vmax - maxval_for_colorbar) >= 0.1):
> >                  modified_vmin_or_vmax = True
> >                  print (2 * indent + 'Previous vmax = %.1f, new vmax = %.1f' % (previous_vmax,
> >                                                                                 maxval_for_colorbar))
> >          else:
> >              maxval_for_colorbar = np.max(grid_freq)
> >          if(modified_vmin_or_vmax):
> >              print (2 * indent + 'The previous vmin and vmax might be slightly different from '
> >                                  'the min and max delta_Ns '
> >                                  'due to the interpolation scheme used for the plot.')
> >          # values > vmax will be set to vmax, and #<vmin will be set to vmin
> >          grid_freq = grid_freq.clip(minval_for_colorbar, maxval_for_colorbar)
> >          v = np.linspace(minval_for_colorbar, maxval_for_colorbar, args.n_levels, endpoint=True)
> >      else:
> >          v = np.linspace(np.min(grid_freq), np.max(grid_freq), args.n_levels, endpoint=True)
> >      print (indent + '* Drawing contour plot...')
> >      print (2 * indent + '> Using %i color levels. Use the option "--n_levels" to choose a different number.' %args.n_levels)
> >      image = ax.contourf(ki, Ei, grid_freq, levels=v, cmap=plot.cmap)
> >
> >      plot_spin_proj_requested = args.plot_spin_perp or args.plot_spin_para or args.plot_sigma_x or args.plot_sigma_y or args.plot_sigma_z
> >      if(plot_spin_proj_requested and plot.spin_projections is not None):
> >          print (indent + '* Drawing spin projection info')
> >          cmap_for_spin_plot = [plt.cm.bwr, plt.cm.RdBu, plt.cm.seismic_r][0]
> >
> >          if(args.clip_spin is None):
> >              vmin_spin = np.min(plot.spin_projections)
> >              vmax_spin = np.max(plot.spin_projections)
> >          else:
> >              vmax_spin = abs(args.clip_spin)
> >              vmin_spin = -1.0 * abs(args.clip_spin)
> >              print (2 * indent + '* New maxval for spin: %.2f' % vmax_spin)
> >              print (2 * indent + '* New minval for spin: %.2f' % vmin_spin)
> >
> >          spin_projections = np.clip(plot.spin_projections, vmin_spin, vmax_spin)
> >          grid_freq_spin = griddata((plot.KptsCoords, plot.energies), spin_projections, (ki[None,:], Ei[:,None]),
> >                                    method='nearest', fill_value=0.0)
> >
> >          k_for_scatter = []
> >          E_for_scatter = []
> >          spin_projections_for_scatter = []
> >          for iener in range(len(Ei)):
> >              for ikpt in range(len(ki)):
> >                  if(abs(grid_freq_spin[iener, ikpt]) > 1E-3):
> >                      k_for_scatter.append(ki[ikpt])
> >                      E_for_scatter.append(Ei[iener])
> >                      spin_projections_for_scatter.append(grid_freq_spin[iener, ikpt])
> >
> >          if(spin_projections_for_scatter):
> >              if(args.spin_marker=='o'):
> >                  image2 = ax.scatter(k_for_scatter, E_for_scatter, marker='o',
> >                                      s=[10.0 * abs(item) for item in spin_projections_for_scatter],
> >                                      c=spin_projections_for_scatter, cmap=cmap_for_spin_plot)
> >              else:
> >                  image2 = ax.scatter(k_for_scatter, E_for_scatter, marker='_',
> >                                      s=[500.0 * (ki[1] - ki[0]) for item in spin_projections_for_scatter],
> >                                      linewidth=[100.0 * plot.dE_for_hist2d * (item ** 2) for item in spin_projections_for_scatter],
> >                                      c=spin_projections_for_scatter, cmap=cmap_for_spin_plot)
> >          else:
> >              print (2 * indent + '* The abs values of the spin projections were all < 1E-3.')
> >
> >      #Preparing the plot
> >      ax.set_xlim(plot.kmin, plot.kmax)
> >      ax.set_ylim(plot.emin, plot.emax)
> >      ax.set_title(plot.title, fontsize=plot.title_size)
> >      ax.set_ylabel(plot.y_axis_label, fontsize=plot.yaxis_labels_size)
> >      plt.yticks(fontsize=plot.tick_marks_size)
> >
> >      # Fermi energy line
> >      show_E_f = not args.no_ef
> >      if(show_E_f and plot.E_f >= plot.emin and plot.E_f <= plot.emax):
> >          E_f_line = plt.axhline(y=plot.E_f, c=plot.color_E_f_line(image), linestyle=plot.line_style_E_f, lw=plot.line_width_E_f)
> >      # High symmetry points lines
> >      if(plot.pos_high_symm_points):
> >          x_tiks_positions = [kx for kx in plot.pos_high_symm_points if kx - plot.kmax <= 1E-2 and kx >= plot.kmin]
> >      if(args.no_symm_labels):
> >          x_tiks_labels = []
> >      else:
> >          x_tiks_labels = [plot.labels_high_symm_lines[i] for i in range(len(plot.labels_high_symm_lines)) if
> >                           plot.pos_high_symm_points[i] in x_tiks_positions]
> >          x_tiks_labels = [xlabel for xlabel in x_tiks_labels if xlabel]
> >      if x_tiks_labels:
> >          print (indent + '* K-point labels read from the "' + args.kpoints_file + '" file:')
> >          for ilabel in range(len(x_tiks_labels)):
> >              print(2 * indent + "k = {:9.5f}".format(x_tiks_positions[ilabel]) + ', label =',\
> >                     x_tiks_labels[ilabel])
> >          plt.xticks(x_tiks_positions, x_tiks_labels, fontsize=plot.tick_marks_size)
> >      else:
> >          plot.x_axis_label = '$k \hspace{0.25} (\AA^{-1})$'
> >          plt.locator_params(axis = 'x', nbins = 5)
> >          ax.set_xlabel(plot.x_axis_label, fontsize=plot.xaxis_labels_size)
> >          plt.xticks(fontsize=plot.tick_marks_size)
> >      ax.tick_params(axis='x', pad=10)
> >
> >      # Drawing vertical lines at the positions of the high-symmetry points
> >      if(not args.no_symm_lines):
> >          for line_position in [pos for pos in plot.pos_high_symm_points if float(round(pos, 3)) > float(round(plot.kmin, 3)) and
> >                                                                            float(round(pos, 3)) < float(round(plot.kmax, 3))]:
> >              hs_lines = plt.axvline(x=line_position, c=plot.color_high_symm_lines(image), linestyle=plot.line_style_high_symm_points,
> >                                     lw=plot.line_width_high_symm_points)
> >
> >      # Color bar
> >      show_colorbar = not args.no_cb
> >      if show_colorbar:
> >          if plot.cb_orientation=='vertical':
> >              cb_pad=0.005
> >          else:
> >              cb_pad=0.06
> >          if(not x_tiks_labels):
> >              cb_pad += 0.08 # To prevent the cb from overlapping with the numbers.
> >
> >          cb_yticks = np.arange(int(image.norm.vmin), int(image.norm.vmax) + 1, 1)
> >
> >          cb_ytick_labels = [round(item,abs(args.round_cb)) for item in cb_yticks]
> >          cb = plt.colorbar(image, ax=ax, ticks=cb_yticks, orientation=plot.cb_orientation, pad=cb_pad)
> >          cb.set_ticklabels(cb_ytick_labels)
> >          cb.ax.tick_params(labelsize=plot.colorbar_tick_marks_size)
> >
> >          color_bar_label = None
> >          if args.cb_label:
> >              color_bar_label = ('$Color scale: \hspace{0.5} \delta N(\\vec{k}; ' +
> >                                 '\hspace{0.25} \epsilon)$ ')
> >          if args.cb_label_full:
> >              color_bar_label = ('$Colors cale: \hspace{0.5} \delta N(\\vec{k}; ' +
> >                                 '\hspace{0.25} \epsilon);$ '+
> >                                 '$\delta\epsilon=' + round(1000.0*plot.dE_for_hist2d,0) +
> >                                 '\\hspace{0.25} meV.$')
> >
> >          if plot.cb_orientation=='vertical':
> >              cb_label_rotation = 90
> >          else:
> >              cb_label_rotation = 0
> >          if color_bar_label:
> >              cb.ax.text(plot.offset_x_text_colorbar, plot.offset_y_text_colorbar,
> >                         color_bar_label, rotation=cb_label_rotation, ha='center',
> >                         va='center', fontsize=plot.colorbar_label_size)
> >
> >      # Saving/showing the results
> >      plt.tick_params(which='both', bottom='off', top='off', left='off', right='off',
> >                      labelbottom='on')
> >
> >
> >      default_out_basename = "_".join([splitext(basename(args.input_file))[0], 'E_from', str(plot.emin), 'to',
> >                                      str(plot.emax), 'eV_dE',
> >                                      str(plot.dE_for_hist2d), 'eV'])
> >      if(args.save):
> >          if(args.output_file is None):
> >              args.output_file = abspath(default_out_basename + '.' + args.file_format)
> >
> >          print ('Savig figure to file "%s" ...' % args.output_file)
> >          if(args.fig_resolution[0].upper() == 'H'):
> >              print (indent + '* High-resolution figure (600 dpi).')
> >              fig_resolution_in_dpi = 600
> >          elif (args.fig_resolution[0].upper() == 'M'):
> >              print (indent + '* Medium-resolution figure (300 dpi).')
> >              fig_resolution_in_dpi = 300
> >          elif (args.fig_resolution[0].upper() == 'L'):
> >              print (indent + '* Low-resolution figure (100 dpi).')
> >              fig_resolution_in_dpi = 100
> >          else:
> >              print (indent + 'Assuming medium-resolution (300 dpi) for the figure.')
> >              fig_resolution_in_dpi = 300
> >          plt.savefig(args.output_file, dpi=fig_resolution_in_dpi, bbox_inches='tight')
> >          print (indent + '* Done saving figure (%s).' % args.output_file)
> >
> >      if args.saveshow:
> >          print ('Opening saved figure (%s)...' % default_out_basename)
> >          # 'xdg-open' might fail to find the defualt program in some systems
> >          # For such cases, one can try to use other alternatives (just add more to the list below)
> >          image_viewer_list = ['xdg-open', 'eog']
> >          for image_viewer in image_viewer_list:
> >              open_saved_fig = Popen([image_viewer, args.output_file], stdout=PIPE, stderr=PIPE)
> >              std_out, std_err = open_saved_fig.communicate()
> >              success_opening_file = std_err.strip() == ''
> >              if(success_opening_file):
> >                  break
> >          if(not success_opening_file):
> >              print (indent + '* Failed (%s): no image viewer detected.' % default_out_basename)
> >
> >      if args.show:
> >          print ('Showing figure (%s)...' % default_out_basename)
> >          plt.show()
> >          print (indent + '* Done showing figure (%s).' % default_out_basename)
> >
> >
> > if __name__ == '__main__':
> >      print_opening_message()
> >      plot_options = BandUpPlotOptions()
> >      plot = BandUpPlot(plot_options)
> >      make_plot(plot)
> >      sys.exit(0)
> >
> Look at the line "if(args.save):". That decides whether to save.
> 
> Where does args come from? It comes from "args = 
> plot.plot_options.args". "plot" is passed into "make_plot".
> 
> Where does that object come from? It comes from "plot = 
> BandUpPlot(plot_options)".
> 
> Where does "plot_options" come from? It comes from "plot_options = 
> BandUpPlotOptions()".
> 
> What's "BandUpPlotOptions()"? I have no idea. It's not part of what 
> you've posted.
> 
> Now, over to you to do the rest. Maybe it's mentioned in matplotlib's docs.


I have posted the whole python script, please guide me which lines need to modify to get a single data file instead of plot using matplotlib.

Thank you.


From torriem at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 18:55:02 2016
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 16:55:02 -0600
Subject: From email addresses sometimes strange on this list - was Re:
 [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <ndts8v$k8t$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <ndmt1u$tfo$2@ger.gmane.org> <57004C62.8060304@gmail.com>
 <ndts8v$k8t$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <5702F0C6.9010002@gmail.com>

On 04/04/2016 08:04 AM, Mark Lawrence via Python-list wrote:
> On 02/04/2016 23:49, Michael Torrie wrote:
>> Mark, your messages are showing up to the list as being from "python,"
>> at least on my email.  Any reason for this?
>>
> 
> Assuming that you're referring to me, frankly I haven't a clue.  I read 
> this list with Thunderbird on Windows, I hit "reply" to something, I 
> type, I hit "send", job done.  Thereafter, as far as I'm concerned, a 
> miracle occurs and hundreds if not thousands of subscribers get to see 
> my reply.

Interesting.  The problem is definitely not on your end at all, though I
first noticed this with your recent posts. Other posts are showing up a
bit weirdly too.  The problem appears to be partly in my Thunderbird
client, and partly the mailing list gateway.  And maybe Gmail is
screwing things up too. Usenet-orginating posts look fine.  For example:

From: Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python

Whereas email ones are sometimes looking like this:

From: Mark Lawrence via Python-list <python-list at python.org>
Reply-To: Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk>

Thunderbird on my machine is only seeing the From email address
(python-list at python.org) and I must have that in my address list
somewhere as "python."

What's odder is that my own messages show up as "From:
torriem at gmail.com" and not "via Python-list <python-list at python.org>".





From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 18:58:41 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:58:41 +1000
Subject: From email addresses sometimes strange on this list - was Re:
 [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <5702F0C6.9010002@gmail.com>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <ndmt1u$tfo$2@ger.gmane.org> <57004C62.8060304@gmail.com>
 <ndts8v$k8t$1@ger.gmane.org> <5702F0C6.9010002@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp5-rzAkGvPvvgUZ5fDAKVuDrMy1ZbU86NvTArFaHsWnw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 8:55 AM, Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:
> Usenet-orginating posts look fine.  For example:
>
> From: Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net>
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
>
> Whereas email ones are sometimes looking like this:
>
> From: Mark Lawrence via Python-list <python-list at python.org>
> Reply-To: Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk>

Ohhhh.... That probably explains it. It's because of Yahoo and mailing
lists. Yahoo did stuff that breaks stuff, so Mailman breaks stuff
differently to make sure that only Yahoo people get messed up a bit.
It means their names and addresses get slightly obscured, but delivery
works.

ChrisA


From torriem at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 19:19:03 2016
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 17:19:03 -0600
Subject: From email addresses sometimes strange on this list - was Re:
 [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmp5-rzAkGvPvvgUZ5fDAKVuDrMy1ZbU86NvTArFaHsWnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <ndmt1u$tfo$2@ger.gmane.org> <57004C62.8060304@gmail.com>
 <ndts8v$k8t$1@ger.gmane.org> <5702F0C6.9010002@gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmp5-rzAkGvPvvgUZ5fDAKVuDrMy1ZbU86NvTArFaHsWnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5702F667.4070106@gmail.com>

On 04/04/2016 04:58 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Ohhhh.... That probably explains it. It's because of Yahoo and mailing
> lists. Yahoo did stuff that breaks stuff, so Mailman breaks stuff
> differently to make sure that only Yahoo people get messed up a bit.
> It means their names and addresses get slightly obscured, but delivery
> works.

That explains it! The other folks with messages like that are coming
from Yahoo as well.  I can live with it.

Thank you!


From saxri89 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 19:19:33 2016
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (Xristos Xristoou)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 16:19:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: testing  python program,project and django site
Message-ID: <08924cbf-9bf6-48d6-8d6f-ec6afc153357@googlegroups.com>

hello,

i am python user and i have some projects,programs and sites with django
in python.
i want one more step deeper,i want to test my programs for
bugs,weaknesses,vulnerability,security or penetration test,on my sites for crashes(because use python apps).because the user i am now on the feature maybe i have thousand users to work with my programs.
can you tell me how to find this?some propram to do that or some for that ?
some method to do that?
some program to testing the programs?

thnX you


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Apr  4 20:05:41 2016
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 01:05:41 +0100
Subject: Plot/Graph
In-Reply-To: <c2368d5c-eafb-4fe5-a233-f25b82f5521b@googlegroups.com>
References: <768f1e2e-baab-4ce3-ae4e-aab2d8ac5bf8@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.414.1459717472.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <20f8e8fb-0bb8-4daa-8d68-d0cc3699a6fc@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.416.1459719344.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <10a26eef-d271-4202-902e-751eb5495a80@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.420.1459729142.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <c2368d5c-eafb-4fe5-a233-f25b82f5521b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <57030154.4010204@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-04 23:35, Muhammad Ali wrote:
> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 5:19:15 PM UTC-7, MRAB wrote:
>> On 2016-04-04 01:04, Muhammad Ali wrote:
>> > On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 2:35:58 PM UTC-7, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
>> >> On 3 Apr 2016 22:21, "Muhammad Ali" <muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >  How do I convert/change/modify python script so that my data could be
>> >> extracted according to python script and at the end it generates another
>> >> single extracted data file instead of displaying/showing some graph? So
>> >> that, I can manually plot the newly generated file (after data extraction)
>> >> by some other software like origin.
>> >>
>> >> It depends what you're computing and what format origin expects the data to
>> >> be in. Presumably it can use CSV files so take a look at the CSV module
>> >> which can write these.
>> >>
>> >> (You'll get better answers to a question like this if you show us some code
>> >> and ask a specific question about how to change it.)
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Oscar
>> >
>> > How could the python script be modified to generate data file rather than display a plot by using matplotlib?
>> >
>> >
>> > def make_plot(plot):
>> >      indent = plot.plot_options.indent
>> >      args = plot.plot_options.args
>> >      # Creating the plot
>> >      print ('Generating the plot...')
>> >      fig = plt.figure(figsize=(plot.fig_width_inches,plot.fig_height_inches))
>> >      ax = fig.add_subplot(111)
>> >      # Defining the color schemes.
>> >      print (indent + '>>> Using the "' + plot.cmap_name + '" colormap.')
>> >      if(plot.plot_options.using_default_cmap and not args.running_from_GUI):
>> >          print (2 * indent + 'Tip: You can try different colormaps by either:')
>> >          print (2 * indent + '     * Running the plot tool with the option -icmap n, ' \
>> >                 'with n in the range from 0 to', len(plot.plot_options.cmaps) - 1)
>> >          print (2 * indent + '     * Running the plot tool with the option "-cmap cmap_name".')
>> >          print (2 * indent + '> Take a look at')
>> >          print (4 * indent + '<http://matplotlib.org/examples/color/colormaps_reference.html>')
>> >          print (2 * indent + '  for a list of colormaps, or run')
>> >          print (4 * indent + '"./plot_unfolded_EBS_BandUP.py --help".')
>> >
>> >      # Building the countour plot from the read data
>> >      # Defining the (ki,Ej) grid.
>> >      if(args.interpolation is not None):
>> >          ki = np.linspace(plot.kmin, plot.kmax, 2 * len(set(plot.KptsCoords)) + 1, endpoint=True)
>> >          Ei = np.arange(plot.emin, plot.emax + plot.dE_for_hist2d, plot.dE_for_hist2d)
>> >          # Interpolating
>> >          grid_freq = griddata((plot.KptsCoords, plot.energies), plot.delta_Ns, (ki[None,:], Ei[:,None]),
>> >                               method=args.interpolation, fill_value=0.0)
>> >      else:
>> >          ki = np.unique(np.clip(plot.KptsCoords, plot.kmin, plot.kmax))
>> >          Ei = np.unique(np.clip(plot.energies, plot.emin,  plot.emax))
>> >          grid_freq = griddata((plot.KptsCoords, plot.energies), plot.delta_Ns, (ki[None,:], Ei[:,None]),
>> >                               method='nearest', fill_value=0.0)
>> >
>> >      if(not args.skip_grid_freq_clip):
>> >          grid_freq = grid_freq.clip(0.0) # Values smaller than zero are just noise.
>> >      # Normalizing and building the countour plot
>> >      manually_normalize_colorbar_min_and_maxval = False
>> >      if((args.maxval_for_colorbar is not None) or (args.minval_for_colorbar is not None)):
>> >          manually_normalize_colorbar_min_and_maxval = True
>> >          args.disable_auto_round_vmin_and_vmax = True
>> >          maxval_for_colorbar = args.maxval_for_colorbar
>> >          minval_for_colorbar = args.minval_for_colorbar
>> >      else:
>> >          if not args.disable_auto_round_vmin_and_vmax:
>> >              minval_for_colorbar = float(round(np.min(grid_freq)))
>> >              maxval_for_colorbar = float(round(np.max(grid_freq)))
>> >              args.round_cb = 0
>> >      if(manually_normalize_colorbar_min_and_maxval or not args.disable_auto_round_vmin_and_vmax):
>> >          modified_vmin_or_vmax = False
>> >          if not args.disable_auto_round_vmin_and_vmax and not args.running_from_GUI:
>> >              print (plot.indent + '* Automatically renormalizing color scale '\
>> >                     '(you can disable this with the option --disable_auto_round_vmin_and_vmax):')
>> >          if manually_normalize_colorbar_min_and_maxval:
>> >              print (plot.indent + '* Manually renormalizing color scale')
>> >          if(minval_for_colorbar is not None):
>> >              previous_vmin = np.min(grid_freq)
>> >              if(abs(previous_vmin - minval_for_colorbar) >= 0.1):
>> >                  modified_vmin_or_vmax = True
>> >                  print (2 * indent + 'Previous vmin = %.1f, new vmin = %.1f' % (previous_vmin,
>> >                                                                                 minval_for_colorbar))
>> >          else:
>> >              minval_for_colorbar = np.min(grid_freq)
>> >          if(maxval_for_colorbar is not None):
>> >              previous_vmax = np.max(grid_freq)
>> >              if(abs(previous_vmax - maxval_for_colorbar) >= 0.1):
>> >                  modified_vmin_or_vmax = True
>> >                  print (2 * indent + 'Previous vmax = %.1f, new vmax = %.1f' % (previous_vmax,
>> >                                                                                 maxval_for_colorbar))
>> >          else:
>> >              maxval_for_colorbar = np.max(grid_freq)
>> >          if(modified_vmin_or_vmax):
>> >              print (2 * indent + 'The previous vmin and vmax might be slightly different from '
>> >                                  'the min and max delta_Ns '
>> >                                  'due to the interpolation scheme used for the plot.')
>> >          # values > vmax will be set to vmax, and #<vmin will be set to vmin
>> >          grid_freq = grid_freq.clip(minval_for_colorbar, maxval_for_colorbar)
>> >          v = np.linspace(minval_for_colorbar, maxval_for_colorbar, args.n_levels, endpoint=True)
>> >      else:
>> >          v = np.linspace(np.min(grid_freq), np.max(grid_freq), args.n_levels, endpoint=True)
>> >      print (indent + '* Drawing contour plot...')
>> >      print (2 * indent + '> Using %i color levels. Use the option "--n_levels" to choose a different number.' %args.n_levels)
>> >      image = ax.contourf(ki, Ei, grid_freq, levels=v, cmap=plot.cmap)
>> >
>> >      plot_spin_proj_requested = args.plot_spin_perp or args.plot_spin_para or args.plot_sigma_x or args.plot_sigma_y or args.plot_sigma_z
>> >      if(plot_spin_proj_requested and plot.spin_projections is not None):
>> >          print (indent + '* Drawing spin projection info')
>> >          cmap_for_spin_plot = [plt.cm.bwr, plt.cm.RdBu, plt.cm.seismic_r][0]
>> >
>> >          if(args.clip_spin is None):
>> >              vmin_spin = np.min(plot.spin_projections)
>> >              vmax_spin = np.max(plot.spin_projections)
>> >          else:
>> >              vmax_spin = abs(args.clip_spin)
>> >              vmin_spin = -1.0 * abs(args.clip_spin)
>> >              print (2 * indent + '* New maxval for spin: %.2f' % vmax_spin)
>> >              print (2 * indent + '* New minval for spin: %.2f' % vmin_spin)
>> >
>> >          spin_projections = np.clip(plot.spin_projections, vmin_spin, vmax_spin)
>> >          grid_freq_spin = griddata((plot.KptsCoords, plot.energies), spin_projections, (ki[None,:], Ei[:,None]),
>> >                                    method='nearest', fill_value=0.0)
>> >
>> >          k_for_scatter = []
>> >          E_for_scatter = []
>> >          spin_projections_for_scatter = []
>> >          for iener in range(len(Ei)):
>> >              for ikpt in range(len(ki)):
>> >                  if(abs(grid_freq_spin[iener, ikpt]) > 1E-3):
>> >                      k_for_scatter.append(ki[ikpt])
>> >                      E_for_scatter.append(Ei[iener])
>> >                      spin_projections_for_scatter.append(grid_freq_spin[iener, ikpt])
>> >
>> >          if(spin_projections_for_scatter):
>> >              if(args.spin_marker=='o'):
>> >                  image2 = ax.scatter(k_for_scatter, E_for_scatter, marker='o',
>> >                                      s=[10.0 * abs(item) for item in spin_projections_for_scatter],
>> >                                      c=spin_projections_for_scatter, cmap=cmap_for_spin_plot)
>> >              else:
>> >                  image2 = ax.scatter(k_for_scatter, E_for_scatter, marker='_',
>> >                                      s=[500.0 * (ki[1] - ki[0]) for item in spin_projections_for_scatter],
>> >                                      linewidth=[100.0 * plot.dE_for_hist2d * (item ** 2) for item in spin_projections_for_scatter],
>> >                                      c=spin_projections_for_scatter, cmap=cmap_for_spin_plot)
>> >          else:
>> >              print (2 * indent + '* The abs values of the spin projections were all < 1E-3.')
>> >
>> >      #Preparing the plot
>> >      ax.set_xlim(plot.kmin, plot.kmax)
>> >      ax.set_ylim(plot.emin, plot.emax)
>> >      ax.set_title(plot.title, fontsize=plot.title_size)
>> >      ax.set_ylabel(plot.y_axis_label, fontsize=plot.yaxis_labels_size)
>> >      plt.yticks(fontsize=plot.tick_marks_size)
>> >
>> >      # Fermi energy line
>> >      show_E_f = not args.no_ef
>> >      if(show_E_f and plot.E_f >= plot.emin and plot.E_f <= plot.emax):
>> >          E_f_line = plt.axhline(y=plot.E_f, c=plot.color_E_f_line(image), linestyle=plot.line_style_E_f, lw=plot.line_width_E_f)
>> >      # High symmetry points lines
>> >      if(plot.pos_high_symm_points):
>> >          x_tiks_positions = [kx for kx in plot.pos_high_symm_points if kx - plot.kmax <= 1E-2 and kx >= plot.kmin]
>> >      if(args.no_symm_labels):
>> >          x_tiks_labels = []
>> >      else:
>> >          x_tiks_labels = [plot.labels_high_symm_lines[i] for i in range(len(plot.labels_high_symm_lines)) if
>> >                           plot.pos_high_symm_points[i] in x_tiks_positions]
>> >          x_tiks_labels = [xlabel for xlabel in x_tiks_labels if xlabel]
>> >      if x_tiks_labels:
>> >          print (indent + '* K-point labels read from the "' + args.kpoints_file + '" file:')
>> >          for ilabel in range(len(x_tiks_labels)):
>> >              print(2 * indent + "k = {:9.5f}".format(x_tiks_positions[ilabel]) + ', label =',\
>> >                     x_tiks_labels[ilabel])
>> >          plt.xticks(x_tiks_positions, x_tiks_labels, fontsize=plot.tick_marks_size)
>> >      else:
>> >          plot.x_axis_label = '$k \hspace{0.25} (\AA^{-1})$'
>> >          plt.locator_params(axis = 'x', nbins = 5)
>> >          ax.set_xlabel(plot.x_axis_label, fontsize=plot.xaxis_labels_size)
>> >          plt.xticks(fontsize=plot.tick_marks_size)
>> >      ax.tick_params(axis='x', pad=10)
>> >
>> >      # Drawing vertical lines at the positions of the high-symmetry points
>> >      if(not args.no_symm_lines):
>> >          for line_position in [pos for pos in plot.pos_high_symm_points if float(round(pos, 3)) > float(round(plot.kmin, 3)) and
>> >                                                                            float(round(pos, 3)) < float(round(plot.kmax, 3))]:
>> >              hs_lines = plt.axvline(x=line_position, c=plot.color_high_symm_lines(image), linestyle=plot.line_style_high_symm_points,
>> >                                     lw=plot.line_width_high_symm_points)
>> >
>> >      # Color bar
>> >      show_colorbar = not args.no_cb
>> >      if show_colorbar:
>> >          if plot.cb_orientation=='vertical':
>> >              cb_pad=0.005
>> >          else:
>> >              cb_pad=0.06
>> >          if(not x_tiks_labels):
>> >              cb_pad += 0.08 # To prevent the cb from overlapping with the numbers.
>> >
>> >          cb_yticks = np.arange(int(image.norm.vmin), int(image.norm.vmax) + 1, 1)
>> >
>> >          cb_ytick_labels = [round(item,abs(args.round_cb)) for item in cb_yticks]
>> >          cb = plt.colorbar(image, ax=ax, ticks=cb_yticks, orientation=plot.cb_orientation, pad=cb_pad)
>> >          cb.set_ticklabels(cb_ytick_labels)
>> >          cb.ax.tick_params(labelsize=plot.colorbar_tick_marks_size)
>> >
>> >          color_bar_label = None
>> >          if args.cb_label:
>> >              color_bar_label = ('$Color scale: \hspace{0.5} \delta N(\\vec{k}; ' +
>> >                                 '\hspace{0.25} \epsilon)$ ')
>> >          if args.cb_label_full:
>> >              color_bar_label = ('$Colors cale: \hspace{0.5} \delta N(\\vec{k}; ' +
>> >                                 '\hspace{0.25} \epsilon);$ '+
>> >                                 '$\delta\epsilon=' + round(1000.0*plot.dE_for_hist2d,0) +
>> >                                 '\\hspace{0.25} meV.$')
>> >
>> >          if plot.cb_orientation=='vertical':
>> >              cb_label_rotation = 90
>> >          else:
>> >              cb_label_rotation = 0
>> >          if color_bar_label:
>> >              cb.ax.text(plot.offset_x_text_colorbar, plot.offset_y_text_colorbar,
>> >                         color_bar_label, rotation=cb_label_rotation, ha='center',
>> >                         va='center', fontsize=plot.colorbar_label_size)
>> >
>> >      # Saving/showing the results
>> >      plt.tick_params(which='both', bottom='off', top='off', left='off', right='off',
>> >                      labelbottom='on')
>> >
>> >
>> >      default_out_basename = "_".join([splitext(basename(args.input_file))[0], 'E_from', str(plot.emin), 'to',
>> >                                      str(plot.emax), 'eV_dE',
>> >                                      str(plot.dE_for_hist2d), 'eV'])
>> >      if(args.save):
>> >          if(args.output_file is None):
>> >              args.output_file = abspath(default_out_basename + '.' + args.file_format)
>> >
>> >          print ('Savig figure to file "%s" ...' % args.output_file)
>> >          if(args.fig_resolution[0].upper() == 'H'):
>> >              print (indent + '* High-resolution figure (600 dpi).')
>> >              fig_resolution_in_dpi = 600
>> >          elif (args.fig_resolution[0].upper() == 'M'):
>> >              print (indent + '* Medium-resolution figure (300 dpi).')
>> >              fig_resolution_in_dpi = 300
>> >          elif (args.fig_resolution[0].upper() == 'L'):
>> >              print (indent + '* Low-resolution figure (100 dpi).')
>> >              fig_resolution_in_dpi = 100
>> >          else:
>> >              print (indent + 'Assuming medium-resolution (300 dpi) for the figure.')
>> >              fig_resolution_in_dpi = 300
>> >          plt.savefig(args.output_file, dpi=fig_resolution_in_dpi, bbox_inches='tight')
>> >          print (indent + '* Done saving figure (%s).' % args.output_file)
>> >
>> >      if args.saveshow:
>> >          print ('Opening saved figure (%s)...' % default_out_basename)
>> >          # 'xdg-open' might fail to find the defualt program in some systems
>> >          # For such cases, one can try to use other alternatives (just add more to the list below)
>> >          image_viewer_list = ['xdg-open', 'eog']
>> >          for image_viewer in image_viewer_list:
>> >              open_saved_fig = Popen([image_viewer, args.output_file], stdout=PIPE, stderr=PIPE)
>> >              std_out, std_err = open_saved_fig.communicate()
>> >              success_opening_file = std_err.strip() == ''
>> >              if(success_opening_file):
>> >                  break
>> >          if(not success_opening_file):
>> >              print (indent + '* Failed (%s): no image viewer detected.' % default_out_basename)
>> >
>> >      if args.show:
>> >          print ('Showing figure (%s)...' % default_out_basename)
>> >          plt.show()
>> >          print (indent + '* Done showing figure (%s).' % default_out_basename)
>> >
>> >
>> > if __name__ == '__main__':
>> >      print_opening_message()
>> >      plot_options = BandUpPlotOptions()
>> >      plot = BandUpPlot(plot_options)
>> >      make_plot(plot)
>> >      sys.exit(0)
>> >
>> Look at the line "if(args.save):". That decides whether to save.
>>
>> Where does args come from? It comes from "args =
>> plot.plot_options.args". "plot" is passed into "make_plot".
>>
>> Where does that object come from? It comes from "plot =
>> BandUpPlot(plot_options)".
>>
>> Where does "plot_options" come from? It comes from "plot_options =
>> BandUpPlotOptions()".
>>
>> What's "BandUpPlotOptions()"? I have no idea. It's not part of what
>> you've posted.
>>
>> Now, over to you to do the rest. Maybe it's mentioned in matplotlib's docs.
>
>
> I have posted the whole python script, please guide me which lines need to modify to get a single data file instead of plot using matplotlib.
>
> Thank you.
>
If you can run it, you should be able to set the args to make it save. 
It should be explained somewhere in the docs.

That script refers to things that must be coming from elsewhere, things 
that are not being imported explicitly by the script.



From muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 20:16:08 2016
From: muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com (Muhammad Ali)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 17:16:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Plot/Graph
In-Reply-To: <mailman.416.1459719344.28225.python-list@python.org>
References: <768f1e2e-baab-4ce3-ae4e-aab2d8ac5bf8@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.414.1459717472.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <20f8e8fb-0bb8-4daa-8d68-d0cc3699a6fc@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.416.1459719344.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <99a3f77c-7069-4e81-942e-06f6e4445291@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 2:35:58 PM UTC-7, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
> On 3 Apr 2016 22:21, "Muhammad Ali" <muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >  How do I convert/change/modify python script so that my data could be
> extracted according to python script and at the end it generates another
> single extracted data file instead of displaying/showing some graph? So
> that, I can manually plot the newly generated file (after data extraction)
> by some other software like origin.
> 
> It depends what you're computing and what format origin expects the data to
> be in. Presumably it can use CSV files so take a look at the CSV module
> which can write these.
> 
> (You'll get better answers to a question like this if you show us some code
> and ask a specific question about how to change it.)
> 
> --
> Oscar

Yes, it is complete script and it works well with matplotlib.


From best_lay at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  4 20:26:30 2016
From: best_lay at yahoo.com (Wildman)
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2016 19:26:30 -0500
Subject: Request Help With Function
References: <-JSdnXtfvv0oXp_KnZ2dnUU7-evNnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <CALwzidn6=DENyUGvri9af4qYiQRCU_2tCR27TzMUWw+zO_Yx9Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.31.1459799740.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <VKGdnWLPwMyrm57KnZ2dnUU7-WGdnZ2d@giganews.com>

On Mon, 04 Apr 2016 13:54:56 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Wildman via Python-list
> <python-list at python.org> wrote:
>>     commandlist = commandlist.split(",")
> 
> commandlist is a list.
> 
>>                 command = [target, commandlist]
>>                 subprocess.Popen(command)
> 
> This is passing a list containing two elements: the first is a string,
> and the second is a list of strings. You should just pass a list of
> strings. Probably you wanted to do this:
> 
>     command = [target] + commandlist

Thank you, that fixed the problem.  It did occur to me that the
problem was in how "command" was put together but I wasn't sure.
A rookie mistake from a rookie.  Whoda thunk it?

-- 
<Wildman> GNU/Linux user #557453
Why is it that all instruments seeking intelligent
life in the universe are pointed away from Earth?


From best_lay at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  4 20:38:55 2016
From: best_lay at yahoo.com (Wildman)
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2016 19:38:55 -0500
Subject: Request Help With Function
References: <-JSdnXtfvv0oXp_KnZ2dnUU7-evNnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <5702C86D.9080308@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.33.1459800193.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <VKGdnZ3OwMyClJ7KnZ2dnUU7-WEAAAAA@giganews.com>

On Mon, 04 Apr 2016 21:02:53 +0100, MRAB wrote:

> On 2016-04-04 20:42, Wildman via Python-list wrote:

<snip>

>> launch_help()
>>
> .Popen will accept either a string or a list of strings.
> 
> You're giving it a list that contains a string and a list.

Yep, that was my foolish mistake.  Thanks.

> BTW, I don't know what you mean by "you can't pass a list to a 
> function", because you can. How were you trying to do it?

The above mistake I made caused me to get a similar error
when I tried to pass the arguments as lists.  I made an
assumption that I should have not made.  After making
the correction Mr. Kelly suggested, I was able to rewrite
the code that way I had it (with the correction), passing
the arguments as lists and it works correctly.

The learning process continues... Thanks again.

-- 
<Wildman> GNU/Linux user #557453
"Philosophy is common sense with big words."
  -James Madison


From muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 21:17:16 2016
From: muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com (Muhammad Ali)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 18:17:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Plot/Graph
In-Reply-To: <99a3f77c-7069-4e81-942e-06f6e4445291@googlegroups.com>
References: <768f1e2e-baab-4ce3-ae4e-aab2d8ac5bf8@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.414.1459717472.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <20f8e8fb-0bb8-4daa-8d68-d0cc3699a6fc@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.416.1459719344.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <99a3f77c-7069-4e81-942e-06f6e4445291@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dbd37709-4764-404c-9e01-e925dbcb5d18@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 8:16:22 AM UTC+8, Muhammad Ali wrote:
> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 2:35:58 PM UTC-7, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
> > On 3 Apr 2016 22:21, "Muhammad Ali" <muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >  How do I convert/change/modify python script so that my data could be
> > extracted according to python script and at the end it generates another
> > single extracted data file instead of displaying/showing some graph? So
> > that, I can manually plot the newly generated file (after data extraction)
> > by some other software like origin.
> > 
> > It depends what you're computing and what format origin expects the data to
> > be in. Presumably it can use CSV files so take a look at the CSV module
> > which can write these.
> > 
> > (You'll get better answers to a question like this if you show us some code
> > and ask a specific question about how to change it.)
> > 
> > --
> > Oscar
> 
> Yes, it is complete script and it works well with matplotlib.

But I have to modify it to extract data into a single .dat file instead of directly plotting it by using matplotlib. I want to plot the data file in some other software.


From steve at pearwood.info  Mon Apr  4 21:43:59 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 11:43:59 +1000
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5703185f$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 02:47 am, Josh B. wrote:

> My package, available at https://github.com/jab/bidict, is currently laid
> out like this:
> 
> bidict/
> ??? __init__.py
> ??? _bidict.py
> ??? _common.py
> ??? _frozen.py
> ??? _loose.py
> ??? _named.py
> ??? _ordered.py
> ??? compat.py
> ??? util.py


The purpose of packages isn't enable Java-style "one class per file" coding,
especially since *everything* in the package except the top level "bidict"
module itself is private. bidict.compat and bidict.util aren't flagged as
private, but they should be, since there's nothing in either of them that
the user of a bidict class should care about.

(utils.py does export a couple of functions, but they should be in the main
module, or possibly made into a method of BidirectionalMapping.)

Your package is currently under 500 lines. As it stands now, you could
easily flatten it to a single module:

bidict.py

Unless you are getting some concrete benefit from a package structure, you
shouldn't use a package just for the sake of it. Even if the code doubles
in size, to 1000 lines, that's still *far* below the point at which I
believe a single module becomes unwieldy just from size. At nearly 6500
lines, the decimal.py module is, in my opinion, *almost* at the point where
just size alone suggests splitting the file into submodules. Your module is
nowhere near that point.

It seems to me that you're paying the cost of the increased complexity
needed to handle a package, but not (as far as I can tell) gaining any
benefit from it. Certainly the *users* of your package aren't: all the
public classes are pre-imported by the __init__.py file, so they don't even
get the advantage of only needing to import classes that they actually use. 

So my recommendation would be to collapse the package to a single file.

If you choose to reject that recommendation, or perhaps you are getting some
benefit that I haven't spotted in a cursory look over the package, then my
suggestion is to document that the *only* public interface is the
top-level "import bidict", and that *all* submodules are private. Then drop
the underscores, possibly re-arrange a bit:


bidict/
??? __init__.py  # the only public part of the package
??? bidict.py
??? common.py  # includes compat and util
??? frozen.py
??? loose.py
??? named.py
??? ordered.py


If you're worried about the lack of underscores for private submodules, then
consider this alternate structure:


_bidict/
??? __init__.py
??? bidict.py
??? common.py
??? frozen.py
??? loose.py
??? named.py
??? ordered.py
bidict.py


where "bidict.py" is effectively little more than:

from _bidict import *



> What do you think of the code layout, specifically the use of the _foo
> modules? It seems well-factored to me, but I haven't seen things laid out
> this way very often in other projects, and I'd like to do this as nicely
> as possible.

It's very pretty, and well-organised, but I'm not sure you're actually
gaining any advantage from it.


> It does kind of bug me that you see the _foo modules in the output when
> you do things like this:
> 
>>>> import bidict
>>>> bidict.bidict
> <class 'bidict._bidict.bidict'>
>>>> bidict.KeyExistsError
> <class 'bidict._common.KeyExistsError'>
> 
> 
> In https://github.com/jab/bidict/pull/33#issuecomment-205381351 a reviewer
> agrees:
> 
> """
> Me too, and it confuses people as to where you should be importing things
> from if you want to catch it, inviting code like
> 
> ```
> import bidict._common


That, at least, should be an obvious no-no, as it's including a single
underscore private name. I wouldn't worry about that too much: if your
users are so naive or obnoxious that they're ignoring your documentation
and importing _private modules, there's nothing you can do: they'll find
*some* way to shoot themselves in the foot, whatever you do.

[Aside: my devs at work had reason to look inside a script written by one of
their now long-moved away former colleagues yesterday, as it recently
broke. After reading the script, the *first* thing they did was change the
way it was called from:

scriptname --opts steve
# yes, he really did use my name as the mandatory argument to the script

to

scriptname --opts forfucksakeandrew

where the name "andrew" has been changed to protect the guilty. Using my
name as the script argument is, apparently, the *least* stupid thing the
script does.]


> try:
>     ...
> except bidict._common.KeyExistsError:
>     ...
> ```
> ie. becoming dependent on the package internal structure.
> 
> I would be tempted to monkey-patch .__module__ = __name__ on each imported
> class to get around this. Maybe there are downsides to doing magic of that
> kind, but dependencies on the internals of packages are such a problem for
> me in our very large codebase, that I'd probably do it anyway in order to
> really explicit about what the public API is. """

Does his team not do internal code reviews? I hate code that lies about
where it comes from. I certainly wouldn't do it in a futile attempt to
protect idiots from themselves.



> Curious what folks on this list recommend, or if there are best practices
> about this published somewhere.
> 
> Thanks,
> Josh

-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Mon Apr  4 21:56:45 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 11:56:45 +1000
Subject: Plot/Graph
References: <768f1e2e-baab-4ce3-ae4e-aab2d8ac5bf8@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.414.1459717472.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <20f8e8fb-0bb8-4daa-8d68-d0cc3699a6fc@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.416.1459719344.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <10a26eef-d271-4202-902e-751eb5495a80@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.420.1459729142.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <23bdbb79-5df9-4584-995b-9ff0da21e7ed@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <57031b5e$0$1587$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:33 am, Muhammad Ali wrote:

[couple of hundred lines of quoted text]

[followed by about a thousand lines of code]

Seriously? Do you really expect people to read through hundreds of lines of
quotes, going at least three levels > > > deep, and then read a thousand
lines of code, to do your work for you? For free?

We try to be friendly and helpful, but there are limits. Please read this
before replying:

http://www.sscce.org/


Thank you.


-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Mon Apr  4 22:07:09 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 12:07:09 +1000
Subject: How can I install
References: <924298918.2164574.1459799475818.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <924298918.2164574.1459799475818.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <mailman.32.1459799903.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57031dce$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 05:51 am, Mohamed Ali wrote:

> 
> I have tried to install python and nltk but I couldn't. Please could you
> please help me because I need to work on natural language processing using
> Python.

There are about ten thousand different things that could be going wrong, "I
couldn't install" doesn't give us any of narrowing the problems down. We
can't read your mind. You have to tell us what you did and what went wrong.

What operating system are you using? Linux, Mac OS, Windows, FreeBSD,
OpenBSD, Android, something else? What version?

How did you try to install the packages? What did you do? Did the
installation appear to work? Was there a problem? Did the computer print an
error message, or crash, or BSOD? Catch fire?

If you get an error message, COPY and PASTE the error, in full. Don't
summarise, and especially don't retype it from memory. Don't send a
screen-shot: people won't be able to see it.

If the error message has been localised into some language other than
English, please provide the original error, and a translation into English,
if you can.

What happened when you try to run Python? How are you running it?

- type "python" into a command shell?

- double-click an icon on the desktop?

- choose "Python" from the Start menu?

- something else?


The more detail you can give, the better the chances we can help you. If you
give no detail, we can give no help.



-- 
Steven



From gustaf.t.nilsson at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 22:38:19 2016
From: gustaf.t.nilsson at gmail.com (Gustaf Nilsson)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 04:38:19 +0200
Subject: Launcher for 64 bits doesnt work
Message-ID: <CABfX9zEjRhQX2Guizbv6motHbL+QEqKpsgs2qETEZDzOooHUqg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi!

The only 3.5.1 versio that works for me is the 32 bits version, will it be
a problem to use the 32 bits version for 64 bits computer?


From zachary.ware+pylist at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 23:39:53 2016
From: zachary.ware+pylist at gmail.com (Zachary Ware)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 22:39:53 -0500
Subject: Launcher for 64 bits doesnt work
In-Reply-To: <CABfX9zEjRhQX2Guizbv6motHbL+QEqKpsgs2qETEZDzOooHUqg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABfX9zEjRhQX2Guizbv6motHbL+QEqKpsgs2qETEZDzOooHUqg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKJDb-O6kXeE3zakQgwMS1=__sJtpOb7_A1J1ZPwEkJqOh5FvQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Gustaf,

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 9:38 PM, Gustaf Nilsson
<gustaf.t.nilsson at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> The only 3.5.1 versio that works for me is the 32 bits version, will it be
> a problem to use the 32 bits version for 64 bits computer?

>From your mention of a 'launcher' I'm assuming you're on Windows.
It's perfectly fine to use 32-bit Python on 64-bit Windows.  However,
how exactly does the launcher for the 64-bit version not work?  What
happens?  What did you expect to happen that didn't?  What error
message do you get?  It's entirely possible that your version of
Windows is in fact 32-bit, even though the computer itself has a
64-bit processor.

Hope this helps,
-- 
Zach


From gustaf.t.nilsson at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 00:06:42 2016
From: gustaf.t.nilsson at gmail.com (Gustaf)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 23:06:42 -0500
Subject: Launcher for 64 bits doesnt work
In-Reply-To: <CAKJDb-O6kXeE3zakQgwMS1=__sJtpOb7_A1J1ZPwEkJqOh5FvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABfX9zEjRhQX2Guizbv6motHbL+QEqKpsgs2qETEZDzOooHUqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKJDb-O6kXeE3zakQgwMS1=__sJtpOb7_A1J1ZPwEkJqOh5FvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <97B97A31-8732-4FC8-B959-D419B2E14FC2@gmail.com>

Thsnk you for your response, the pip installer doesnt work, only for the launcher for 32 bits. 

But my mainproblem is that I cant connect pygresql. I can download the package but after it says that it cant find the module

Enviado desde mi iPhone

> El 4 apr 2016, a las 22:39, Zachary Ware <zachary.ware+pylist at gmail.com> escribi?:
> 
> Hi Gustaf,
> 
> On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 9:38 PM, Gustaf Nilsson
> <gustaf.t.nilsson at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi!
>> 
>> The only 3.5.1 versio that works for me is the 32 bits version, will it be
>> a problem to use the 32 bits version for 64 bits computer?
> 
> From your mention of a 'launcher' I'm assuming you're on Windows.
> It's perfectly fine to use 32-bit Python on 64-bit Windows.  However,
> how exactly does the launcher for the 64-bit version not work?  What
> happens?  What did you expect to happen that didn't?  What error
> message do you get?  It's entirely possible that your version of
> Windows is in fact 32-bit, even though the computer itself has a
> 64-bit processor.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> -- 
> Zach


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 00:08:32 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 21:08:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: module alias in import statement
In-Reply-To: <mailman.38.1459802831.32530.python-list@python.org>
References: <570288d0$0$19758$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
 <ndujs3$7n6$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.38.1459802831.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <47c51cb5-2d4b-42d3-8bf2-268720ebb4d2@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 2:17:24 AM UTC+5:30, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 4/4/2016 11:31 AM, ast wrote:
> > hello
> >
> >>>> import tkinter as tk
> >>>> import tk.ttk as ttk
> >
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<pyshell#3>", line 1, in <module>
> >     import tk.ttk as ttk
> > ImportError: No module named 'tk'
> >
> >
> > of course
> >
> >>>> import tkinter.ttk as ttk
> >
> > works
> >
> > Strange, isn't it ?
> 
> Nope. As other said, 'import tkinter as tk' imports a module named 
> 'tkinter' and *in the importing modules, and only in the importing 
> module*, binds the module to 'tk'.  It also caches the module in 
> sys.modules under its real name, 'tkinter'.
> 
>  >>> import tkinter as tk
>  >>> import sys
>  >>> 'tkinter' in sys.modules
> True
>  >>> 'tk' in sys.modules
> False
> 
> 'import tk.ttk' looks for 'tk' in sys.modules, does not find it, looks 
> for a module named 'tk' on disk, does not find it, and says so.

A well-known quote comes to mind:

| There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation and
| naming things.

eg. http://martinfowler.com/bliki/TwoHardThings.html

particularly since this seems to be in both categories :-)


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 00:14:51 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 21:14:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Trouble trying to install Python 3.5.1 (32-bit) for windows
In-Reply-To: <mailman.48.1459824569.32530.python-list@python.org>
References: <GRUPR80MB12171A5A064E35686961E55F29D0@GRUPR80MB121.lamprd80.prod.outlook.com>
 <mailman.48.1459824569.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b2b37537-1bff-451a-be36-c0380ea3bfb6@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 8:19:44 AM UTC+5:30, Yuri Armellei wrote:
> Dear Python,
> 
> I  encountered difficulties when installing  the python.
> 
> Could you guys help me to solve and install it?!
> 
> Attached log error  to  help you guys to help me out. =)  ;)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> 
> [cid:image001.png at 01D18EA7.4A69B7E0]
> 
> 
> [cid:image006.jpg at 01D152DC.ACCAF540]
> 
> Yuri Armellei

Images dont get through this list -- sorry -- text only.
Please cut paste the error as inline text and mail again.

And while you are at it give this info also
- Which OS
- Which installer did you try


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Apr  5 00:16:56 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 14:16:56 +1000
Subject: Launcher for 64 bits doesnt work
References: <CABfX9zEjRhQX2Guizbv6motHbL+QEqKpsgs2qETEZDzOooHUqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKJDb-O6kXeE3zakQgwMS1=__sJtpOb7_A1J1ZPwEkJqOh5FvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <97B97A31-8732-4FC8-B959-D419B2E14FC2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85shz07kqv.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Gustaf <gustaf.t.nilsson at gmail.com> writes:

> Enviado desde mi iPhone

Perhaps you could wait until you're at a better computer for
corresponding, and compose messages with more information to work out
what's happening.

-- 
 \      ?Contentment is a pearl of great price, and whosoever procures |
  `\        it at the expense of ten thousand desires makes a wise and |
_o__)                                      happy purchase.? ?J. Balguy |
Ben Finney



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 00:23:09 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 14:23:09 +1000
Subject: module alias in import statement
In-Reply-To: <47c51cb5-2d4b-42d3-8bf2-268720ebb4d2@googlegroups.com>
References: <570288d0$0$19758$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
 <ndujs3$7n6$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.38.1459802831.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <47c51cb5-2d4b-42d3-8bf2-268720ebb4d2@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrskhvZBo5jbiDu4HGpp+YQ2u3sBj-ZFp3KcMv9e5LHyA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 'import tk.ttk' looks for 'tk' in sys.modules, does not find it, looks
>> for a module named 'tk' on disk, does not find it, and says so.
>
> A well-known quote comes to mind:
>
> | There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation and
> | naming things.
>
> eg. http://martinfowler.com/bliki/TwoHardThings.html
>
> particularly since this seems to be in both categories :-)

sys.modules isn't really a cache in that sense, though. The "hard
problem" of cache invalidation comes from the fundamental assumption
that a cache hit should be semantically identical to a cache miss;
Python's import system has fundamentally different semantics,
specifically that modules can exist independently of anything on the
disk, and modules are guaranteed to be singletons - which means that
"import decimal; decimal.getcontext().prec = 50" will affect anyone
else who uses the decimal module, because there can't be a duplicate.
(The one exception to this, where __main__ gets reimported under
another name, causes significant confusion despite being extremely
uncommon.)

If you like, you can look at sys.modules as a mandatory cache that
never records negatives and always records positives. Once an import
has succeeded, it will always be resolved from the cache, until
program termination; failed imports will always be retried. Python
dodges the cache invalidation problem by never invalidating anything
:)

ChrisA


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 00:27:03 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 21:27:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: module alias in import statement
In-Reply-To: <mailman.52.1459830198.32530.python-list@python.org>
References: <570288d0$0$19758$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
 <ndujs3$7n6$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.38.1459802831.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <47c51cb5-2d4b-42d3-8bf2-268720ebb4d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmrskhvZBo5jbiDu4HGpp+YQ2u3sBj-ZFp3KcMv9e5LHyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.52.1459830198.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b707ce3a-6e9e-45dd-9f4d-2cc6c8d197a6@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 9:53:30 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Rustom Mody  wrote:
> >> 'import tk.ttk' looks for 'tk' in sys.modules, does not find it, looks
> >> for a module named 'tk' on disk, does not find it, and says so.
> >
> > A well-known quote comes to mind:
> >
> > | There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation and
> > | naming things.
> >
> > eg. http://martinfowler.com/bliki/TwoHardThings.html
> >
> > particularly since this seems to be in both categories :-)
> 
> sys.modules isn't really a cache in that sense, though. The "hard
> problem" of cache invalidation comes from the fundamental assumption
> that a cache hit should be semantically identical to a cache miss;

Following looks like a cache miss to me (certainly did to the OP):

On Monday, April 4, 2016 at 9:01:41 PM UTC+5:30, ast wrote:
> hello
> 
> >>> import tkinter as tk
> >>> import tk.ttk as ttk
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#3>", line 1, in <module>
>     import tk.ttk as ttk
> ImportError: No module named 'tk'
> 


From gandalf at shopzeus.com  Tue Apr  5 01:44:58 2016
From: gandalf at shopzeus.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Nagy_L=c3=a1szl=c3=b3_Zsolt?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 07:44:58 +0200
Subject: ANN: intervalset Was: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <1459782597.3444051.568344234.048046C6@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
 <1459523394.2611014.565840994.593DD99A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <570213CB.8040101@shopzeus.com>
 <1459782597.3444051.568344234.048046C6@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <570350DA.7080401@shopzeus.com>


> I don't know if I like it being immutable. Maybe have separate mutable
> and immutable versions.
The reason for making it immutable is implementation specific. These
intervals are stored in an ordered list. Overlapping intervals are
unified by the constructor. This makes sure that sets with equal
elements are represented equally, and makes it possible to hash the set.
Comparing them by these hashes is fast and easy.

If you want to manipulate an interval set, you cannot just "add another
interval" to it. Adding an interval may result in unifying thousands of
other intervals. It is possible that you add a wide interval to a set
with 1000 elements, and as a result the set will have only a single
element.
> Like I said before, I don't think the set-like operations on Intervals
> are useful - what can you accomplish with them rather than by making a
> set consisting of only one interval and doing operations on that?
Well, then don't use them. I believe that the intersection of two
intervals is especially useful. Easy to check if two intervals have a
common non-empty part or not. You can also check this with a condition,
but that condition is a long one.
>>>> element ::= (start_point_in_time, end_point_in_time)
>>>> intervalset ::= { element1, element2, .... }
>>> Are these open intervals or closed intervals?
>> Closed. In my particular implementation, there is a singleton for all
>> empty intervals. It is not possible to create an arbitrary interval with
>> the same starting and ending time (the singleton being the only
>> exception).
> An "arbitrary interval with the same starting and ending time" would be
> more like an isolated datetime (i.e. 00:00 is in the set but 23:59 or
> 00:01 is not)
Yes, that is true. Again: my task was to represent non-empty intervals.
We can say that a zero sized closed interval is also a special interval
that identifies a single point of time. Since the base class has been
rewritten to support any ordered type, it makes sense. Probably this is
a good idea to do. There are applications where the user is not
interested in zero sized intervals. For example, if you want to store
the working time of an employee then obviously you don't want to store
zero sized intervals.

How about creating two classes for this? One that supports zero sized
intervals, and another that doesn't?
Or maybe create a method that removes all zero sized intervals?
>> I think that implementing open intervals would be much more
>> difficult, and we would have to know and use the smallest possible
>> increment (resolution) of the date/time type. Which may be platform
>> dependent.
> My suggestion was to use boolean flags, and to use that to control
> whether to use < or <= to test for membership.
>
> An open interval is more like an hour where 00:00 is included and
> 00:59:59.999999 is included but 01:00 is not. With discrete resolution
> it's as simple as just moving the endpoint off by one unit, but I think
> it'd be cleaner to use flags (you'd need it for numeric intervals, since
> numeric types can have any resolution).
Well, here is the problem: floats, ints, decimals and datetimes are all
ordered types. But they all have a different resolution, and some of
them are implementation dependent. We must know and use the smallest
resolution, even if we use boolean flags to denote openness. For
example: if we use integer values, then the closed interval [1,9] is
equal to the open interval (0,10) or the left-open interval (0,10]. We
want to be able to compare them, so we must know the resolution! If we
stay at the generalized form of the class that can be used on any
ordered type, then we cannot avoid using the concept of the "resolution
of the type". Here are the choices:

  * Use boolean flags to denote openness:
      o We do not support testing for interval equality - I think that
        missing this fundamental operator would make the implementation
        useless.
      o Support testing for internal equality - this requires knowledge
        about the smallest resolution, so in this case using flags to
        denote openness makes it possible to represent the same interval
        in 4 different ways! (left opened/closed, right opened/closed).
        I think this is also a bad idea.
      o We may have an agreement about how we should represent certain
        intervals from the 4 different possible opportunities, but the
        simplest way would be to always store them as closed intervals -
        which makes these boolean flags unneccessary
  * Do not use boolean flags to denote openness - I don't see any
    problem here.


I think the problem is that you are thinking the mathematical way, where
an open interval can never be equal to a closed interval. I was thinking
the IT way, where everything is represented with bits, and the "open
interval" is just a concept that always has a biggest and a smallest
possible value.

I'm not saying that your suggestion is wrong. I'm just saying that it
raises all kinds of implementation specific questions that are hard to
answer - at least for me.

>>    def __contains__(self, other):
>>        """Containment relation.
>>
>>        Tell if `other` is contained *completely* in this set. The argument can either be an Interval or an
>>        IntervalSet.
>>        """
> I don't think this is appropriate for this operation; this should be
> __gt__. __contains__ should test a datetime (or whatever type item), not
> another Interval/IntervalSet.
Well, I have also implemented __gt__ but its interpretation is equally
blurry. When two intervals overlap, which is the bigger? My original
task was to compare working hours (intervals) of employees and in that
interpretation, the above "contains" operation was useful. In other
cases, using a set intersection is more meaningful ("what is the common
part in them").

Cheers,

   Laszlo



From sionet3344 at hotmail.co.uk  Tue Apr  5 01:48:01 2016
From: sionet3344 at hotmail.co.uk (Gordon( Hotmail ))
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 06:48:01 +0100
Subject: Promoting Python
Message-ID: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>

I am struggling to understand the basic principles of Python having spent many years as a pure Amateur tinkering with a variety of BASIC  as you can see on my site at http://www.sigord.co.uk/  I think you will agree all such versions of Basic I have used are far easier to understand than Python. Though with my limited knowledge I accept Python may have many advantages over say Liberty Basic etc.

The problem I am finding is most of the sites claiming to help understand Python devote far too much space bragging about the wonders of Python instead of concentrating how to make sensible use of it. For example I struggle to find examples of such as below if you could please help me. If I manage to duplicate some of my efforts on my site with Python I will be happy to upload the code to my site. I will also try to upload working exec files of such also, except my previous attempts at downloading the relevant software was blocked by AVG software as risky. 

Gordon


Liberty Basic
for n = 32 to 255: print n;chr$(n) : next n

REM BBC Basic
FOR c = 1 TO 15 : COLOUR c
  PRINT "Color ";c
NEXT c

REM BBC Basic
c = 0
FOR x = 80 TO 2000 STEP 96
  GCOL c: CIRCLE FILL x,500,50 : c = c + 1
NEXT x



From nomail at com.invalid  Tue Apr  5 02:57:59 2016
From: nomail at com.invalid (ast)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:57:59 +0200
Subject: Label behavior's difference between tkinter and ttk
Message-ID: <570361fd$0$648$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hello

I currently migrate a GUI from tkinter to ttk and I found a problem

Here is a piece of code, with comments which explain what is 
wrong.

import tkinter as tk
import tkinter.ttk as ttk

root = tk.Tk()

BITMAP0 = """
#define zero_width 24
#define zero_height 32
static char zero_bits[] = {
0x00,0x00,0x00, 0x00,0x00,0x00, 0xf0,0x3c,0x0f, 0xf0,0x3c,0x0f,
0xf0,0x3c,0x0f, 0xf0,0x3c,0x0f, 0x00,0x00,0x00, 0x00,0x00,0x00,
0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f,
0x00,0x00,0x00, 0x00,0x00,0x00, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f,
0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0x00,0x00,0x00, 0x00,0x00,0x00,
0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f,
0x00,0x00,0x00, 0x00,0x00,0x00, 0xf0,0x3c,0x0f, 0xf0,0x3c,0x0f,
0xf0,0x3c,0x0f, 0xf0,0x3c,0x0f, 0x00,0x00,0x00, 0x00,0x00,0x00
};
"""

img = tk.BitmapImage(data=BITMAP0, foreground='white', background='black')

# This Label comes from ttk

label = ttk.Label(root, image=img)

# This Label comes from tk. To be uncommented to test behavior'difference
# label = tk.Label(root, image=img)

label.pack()

# The graphic is not refreshed after entering following commands
# when Label comes from ttk. You have to fly over the label with 
# the mouse to get the right color.
# The graphic is immediately updated when Label comes from tk

# Enter these commands by hand, in a shell

img.config(foreground='red')
img.config(foreground='lime')
img.config(foreground='yellow')


It looks like a ttk bug, isn't it ?
I am using python 3.5.1

I tried a root.update_idletasks() to refresh the graphic
but it changed nothings.



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Apr  5 03:26:56 2016
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 17:26:56 +1000
Subject: module alias in import statement
References: <570288d0$0$19758$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
 <ndujs3$7n6$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.38.1459802831.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <47c51cb5-2d4b-42d3-8bf2-268720ebb4d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmrskhvZBo5jbiDu4HGpp+YQ2u3sBj-ZFp3KcMv9e5LHyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.52.1459830198.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <b707ce3a-6e9e-45dd-9f4d-2cc6c8d197a6@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <570368c2$0$1533$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tuesday 05 April 2016 14:27, Rustom Mody wrote:

> On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 9:53:30 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Rustom Mody  wrote:
>> >> 'import tk.ttk' looks for 'tk' in sys.modules, does not find it, looks
>> >> for a module named 'tk' on disk, does not find it, and says so.
>> >
>> > A well-known quote comes to mind:
>> >
>> > | There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache
>> > | invalidation and naming things.
>> >
>> > eg. http://martinfowler.com/bliki/TwoHardThings.html
>> >
>> > particularly since this seems to be in both categories :-)
>> 
>> sys.modules isn't really a cache in that sense, though. The "hard
>> problem" of cache invalidation comes from the fundamental assumption
>> that a cache hit should be semantically identical to a cache miss;
> 
> Following looks like a cache miss to me (certainly did to the OP):
> 
> On Monday, April 4, 2016 at 9:01:41 PM UTC+5:30, ast wrote:
>> hello
>> 
>> >>> import tkinter as tk
>> >>> import tk.ttk as ttk
>> 
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<pyshell#3>", line 1, in <module>
>>     import tk.ttk as ttk
>> ImportError: No module named 'tk'


But that *miss* isn't cached -- if the OP then created a package called "tk" 
with a submodule called "ttk", and then re-ran the `import tk.ttk as ttk` 
line, the import subsystem would have picked up the newly created package 
and imported it.

I think that's the point Chris was trying to make.



-- 
Steve



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 03:31:10 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 00:31:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dfada2fa-39b9-4d89-a47c-c4e0742be9e0@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 12:53:13 PM UTC+5:30, Gordon( Hotmail ) wrote:
> I am struggling to understand the basic principles of Python having spent many years as a pure Amateur tinkering with a variety of BASIC  as you can see on my site at http://www.sigord.co.uk/  I think you will agree all such versions of Basic I have used are far easier to understand than Python. Though with my limited knowledge I accept Python may have many advantages over say Liberty Basic etc.
> 
> The problem I am finding is most of the sites claiming to help understand Python devote far too much space bragging about the wonders of Python instead of concentrating how to make sensible use of it. For example I struggle to find examples of such as below if you could please help me. If I manage to duplicate some of my efforts on my site with Python I will be happy to upload the code to my site. I will also try to upload working exec files of such also, except my previous attempts at downloading the relevant software was blocked by AVG software as risky. 
> 
> Gordon
> 
> 
> Liberty Basic
> for n = 32 to 255: print n;chr$(n) : next n

I grew up on BBC basic in 1984. Not used thereafter.

Your first one is (I guess) this in python:

>>> for i in range(32,127):
...   print chr(i),
... 
  ! " # $ % & ' ( ) * + , - . / 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 : ; < = > ? @ A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z [ \ ] ^ _ ` a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z { | } ~

> 
> REM BBC Basic
> FOR c = 1 TO 15 : COLOUR c
>   PRINT "Color ";c
> NEXT c
> 
> REM BBC Basic
> c = 0
> FOR x = 80 TO 2000 STEP 96
>   GCOL c: CIRCLE FILL x,500,50 : c = c + 1
> NEXT x

If you tell us some more of what color, gcol etc do someone will likely show you
Though in all fairness I dont expect it to be as pithy as the BASIC


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 03:34:03 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:34:03 +0100
Subject: Request to mailing list Python-list rejected
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1459824544.26995.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.0.1459824544.26995.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxQfV__7=q5i82Fdx_gEnFSrn0pUT0u9onYaH0Fqku7Y6g@mail.gmail.com>

On 5 Apr 2016 03:50, <python-list-owner at python.org> wrote:
>
> Your request to the Python-list mailing list
>
>     Posting of your message titled "Re: Plot/Graph"
>
> has been rejected by the list moderator.  The moderator gave the
> following reason for rejecting your request:
>
> "Your message was too big; please trim unnecessary content."
>
> Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator
> at:
>
>     python-list-owner at python.org

When did this start happening?

The message in question includes a big block of code posted by someone else
as context. My comment was that the code was incomplete so I felt it
reasonable to include it as context.

--
Oscar


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 03:47:29 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 17:47:29 +1000
Subject: module alias in import statement
In-Reply-To: <570368c2$0$1533$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <570288d0$0$19758$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
 <ndujs3$7n6$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.38.1459802831.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <47c51cb5-2d4b-42d3-8bf2-268720ebb4d2@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmrskhvZBo5jbiDu4HGpp+YQ2u3sBj-ZFp3KcMv9e5LHyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.52.1459830198.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <b707ce3a-6e9e-45dd-9f4d-2cc6c8d197a6@googlegroups.com>
 <570368c2$0$1533$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp5cNi18VOqbfxmcWQLij1O9SGVE_Rcw6mosh4+XzFiew@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 5:26 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>>> sys.modules isn't really a cache in that sense, though. The "hard
>>> problem" of cache invalidation comes from the fundamental assumption
>>> that a cache hit should be semantically identical to a cache miss;
>>
>> Following looks like a cache miss to me (certainly did to the OP):
>>
>> On Monday, April 4, 2016 at 9:01:41 PM UTC+5:30, ast wrote:
>>> hello
>>>
>>> >>> import tkinter as tk
>>> >>> import tk.ttk as ttk
>>>
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>   File "<pyshell#3>", line 1, in <module>
>>>     import tk.ttk as ttk
>>> ImportError: No module named 'tk'
>
>
> But that *miss* isn't cached -- if the OP then created a package called "tk"
> with a submodule called "ttk", and then re-ran the `import tk.ttk as ttk`
> line, the import subsystem would have picked up the newly created package
> and imported it.
>
> I think that's the point Chris was trying to make.

Not quite; that was a separate point (that negative results aren't
cached). A cache miss is when the cache doesn't have something, and
Python goes to the next source (in this case, searching the file
system). The end result should be the same in either case (you get a
module object), but in Python, a cache miss results in *actual code
execution*. Granted, you often still won't *see* any difference (your
typical module just quietly defines a bunch of stuff), but there's
still a significant semantic difference; consider what happens when
you type "import this as that" followed by "import this". The second
one is a cache hit, and it's fundamentally different in function.

Cache invalidation is all about knowing when you should *ignore* the
cached entry and go back to the file system. Python will never do
this, because the semantics are defined very differently.

ChrisA


From gandalf at shopzeus.com  Tue Apr  5 04:11:04 2016
From: gandalf at shopzeus.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Nagy_L=c3=a1szl=c3=b3_Zsolt?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 10:11:04 +0200
Subject: ANN: intervalset Was: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <1459784663.3451967.568464658.50905009@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
 <1459523394.2611014.565840994.593DD99A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <570213CB.8040101@shopzeus.com>
 <1459782597.3444051.568344234.048046C6@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAHVvXxRRmJKHq-H8xotY9yF+pzG+7NOSMhOwTbL4qF-N4XjTfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459784663.3451967.568464658.50905009@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <57037318.6050703@shopzeus.com>


> Yes, my question is why it's useful to have a single Interval as a
> *distinct* type, separate from the interval set type, which supports a
> sharply limited number of set-like operations (such as the union of two
> overlapping intervals but NOT two non-overlapping ones). This doesn't
> appear to be the case in sympy based on your examples.
The main reason for this was to check begin / end values, and return the
EMPTY_INTERVAL singleton for empty intervals. If we want to support zero
length intervals with begin==end value, then there is no need to use
EMPTY_INTERVAL. But there is still need to check begin <= end. But maybe
you are right: if we suppose that nobody will try to use an interval
where end < begin then we can use plain tuples. But then the user *must*
make sure not to use invalid intervals. Both solution have pros and
cons. Right now, I prefer to find the problem as soon as possible (e.g.
in the Interval constructor), but you can try to convince me.
> Having an interval as a distinct type may be useful (to iterate over the
> intervals of a set, for example), but his design blurs the line between
> intervals and sets (by supporting some set operations) without
> eliminating it as sympy seems to do.
It is blurred by design. There is an interpretation where an interval
between [0..4] equals to a set of intervals ([0..2],[2..4]). Actually,
you can ask: "is an element within the interval?" The same question can
be asked for an Interval set. So the same type of value can be
"contained" within an interval and also witin an interval set. In the
current implementation, if you try to create a set with these two
intervals [0..2] and [2..4], then they are unified into a single element
on purpose: to make sure that there is only a single official
representation of it. E.g. ([0..2],[2..4]) is not a valid set, only
([0..4]) is.

By definition, a set is given with its elements, e.g. for any possible
item, you can tell if it is part of the set or not. So if
([0..2],[2..4]) and ([0..4]) have exactly the same elements (by the
given definition), then they are not just equal: they are the same set.
The same reasoning is used in math when they say: there cannot be
multiple empty sets. There exists a single empty set. It happens that we
can only represent a finite number of elements in any set on a computer.
I wanted to have a well defined single way to represent any given set.

I can also see your point. From another point a view, a set and a set of
sets is not the same type. However, I do not share this view, because if
we start thinking this way, then operations like the one below does not
make sense:

[0..4]) - (1..2] == [0..1] | [2..4]

If you make a strinct distinction between intervals and interval sets,
then the above equation does not make sense, because you cannot remove
an element from a set that is not an "element" of it. The above equation
makes sense only if the "intervalset" is a general representation of
possible values, and the "interval" type is a special representation of
(the same) possible values. It is clear when you ask the question: "is 3
in the interval?" and you can also ask "is 3 in the interval set?" - so
the value of the same type can be contained in the interval and also in
the interval set. Maybe the naming is bad, and it should be named
"Intervals" instead of IntervalSet?




From morkovnicolae at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 05:53:05 2016
From: morkovnicolae at gmail.com (Nicolae Morkov)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 10:53:05 +0100
Subject: Import error
Message-ID: <CAO5nurNXyV3Q3B39xmufuJfcpDsWSKSpGjMOM0UbAKCF9aXDYA@mail.gmail.com>

What can I do ,,,,  I've tried everything


From tony at vanderhoff.org  Tue Apr  5 06:00:29 2016
From: tony at vanderhoff.org (Tony van der Hoff)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:00:29 +0100
Subject: Import error
In-Reply-To: <CAO5nurNXyV3Q3B39xmufuJfcpDsWSKSpGjMOM0UbAKCF9aXDYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO5nurNXyV3Q3B39xmufuJfcpDsWSKSpGjMOM0UbAKCF9aXDYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57038CBD.7000308@vanderhoff.org>

On 05/04/16 10:53, Nicolae Morkov wrote:
> What can I do ,,,,  I've tried everything
>

Just hang your head and cry...

-- 
Tony van der Hoff        | mailto:tony at vanderhoff.org
Buckinghamshire, England |


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Tue Apr  5 06:01:43 2016
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:01:43 +0100
Subject: Import error
In-Reply-To: <CAO5nurNXyV3Q3B39xmufuJfcpDsWSKSpGjMOM0UbAKCF9aXDYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO5nurNXyV3Q3B39xmufuJfcpDsWSKSpGjMOM0UbAKCF9aXDYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57038D07.9010405@timgolden.me.uk>

On 05/04/2016 10:53, Nicolae Morkov wrote:
> What can I do ,,,,  I've tried everything
> 

You attached a screenshot, which won't make it through to this text-only
mailing list. Can you copy the actual text of the error message from the
IDLE session and paste it here, please?

TJG


From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr  5 06:14:07 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 20:14:07 +1000
Subject: Import error
References: <CAO5nurNXyV3Q3B39xmufuJfcpDsWSKSpGjMOM0UbAKCF9aXDYA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.59.1459850094.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57038ff1$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 07:53 pm, Nicolae Morkov wrote:

> What can I do ,,,,  I've tried everything

You can start by telling us what you are trying to do, and what error you
are getting.

- What module are you trying to import?

- Are you sure it is installed? How do you know?

- What command do you give to import it? COPY and PASTE it, don't 
  type it out from memory.

- What happens? Do you get an error? What EXACT error message do 
  you get? COPY and PASTE the entire error, starting from the
  line "Traceback", don't summarise it or retype it from memory.



Good question, with a useful answer:


Question: I'm trying to import the maths module, so I write `import maths`,
and I get this traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ImportError: No module named 'maths'

Answer: Try `import math` without the S.



Bad question, with no useful answers:

Question: "It doesn't work!!!!! What am I doing wrong????"




-- 
Steven



From morkovnicolae at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 06:19:59 2016
From: morkovnicolae at gmail.com (Nicolae Morkov)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:19:59 +0100
Subject: Import graphics error
Message-ID: <CAO5nurM_6d+3Tz5-=uo1w_nVygFtuwatjejHvhfkUTD-DhvBoA@mail.gmail.com>

# This program creates a graphics window with a rectangle. It provides the
3 # template used with all of the graphical programs used in the book.
4 #
5
6 from graphics import GraphicsWindow
7
8 # Create the window and access the canvas.
9  win = GraphicsWindow()
10 canvas = win.canvas()
11
12 # Draw on the canvas.
13 canvas.drawRect(5, 10, 20, 30)
14
15 # Wait for the user to close the window.
16 win.wait()


*This is the error I get*

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File
"C:/Users/Nicolae/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python35/pythonK/pr.py",
line 1, in <module>
    from graphics import GraphicsWindow
ImportError: No module named 'graphics'


*And when I installed graphic library the error was :*

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File
"C:/Users/Nicolae/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python35/pythonK/pr.py",
line 1, in <module>
    from graphics import GraphicsWindow
ImportError: cannot import name 'GraphicsWindow'


From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr  5 06:33:18 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 20:33:18 +1000
Subject: Import graphics error
References: <CAO5nurM_6d+3Tz5-=uo1w_nVygFtuwatjejHvhfkUTD-DhvBoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.61.1459851765.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5703946f$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:19 pm, Nicolae Morkov wrote:

> # This program creates a graphics window with a rectangle. It provides the
> 3 # template used with all of the graphical programs used in the book.

What book? 



> *This is the error I get*
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File
> "C:/Users/Nicolae/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python35/pythonK/pr.py",
> line 1, in <module>
>     from graphics import GraphicsWindow
> ImportError: No module named 'graphics'

Okay. So you didn't have the graphics module installed, and the import
failed because the module wasn't installed.


> *And when I installed graphic library the error was :*
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File
> "C:/Users/Nicolae/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python35/pythonK/pr.py",
> line 1, in <module>
>     from graphics import GraphicsWindow
> ImportError: cannot import name 'GraphicsWindow'


How did you install it? Are you sure it is the right module?



-- 
Steven



From kw at codebykevin.com  Tue Apr  5 07:26:17 2016
From: kw at codebykevin.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 07:26:17 -0400
Subject: Can't load Tkinter in embedded Python interpreter on Windows
Message-ID: <ne076l$7bt$1@dont-email.me>

I am trying to build a stub exe on Windows that embeds Python and 
launches my Tkinter app. I want a full-blown exe program starter because 
the various Python freezing tools (py2exe, pyinstaller) do not work to 
my satisfaction with Python 3.5.

I am able to get the executable built but I cannot get it to load 
Tkinter and run. The current error is:

"AttributeError: module 'sys' has no attribute 'argv'"

when called from the Tkinter init method.

Here is my command-line invocation for the compiler:

---
gcc quickwho.c -I 
\C:\Users\kevin\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35\include 
-LC:\Users\kevin\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35\libs 
-LC:\Users\kevin\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35\DLLs -lShlwapi 
-lpython35 -o quickwho.exe
----

And here is my C stub launcher:

#include 
<C:/Users/kevin/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python35/include/Python.h>
#include <Windows.h>
#include <shlobj.h>
#include <shlwapi.h>
#include <tchar.h>

int main(int argc, char *argv[])
{

     Py_SetProgramName(argv[0]);
     Py_Initialize();

      TCHAR exedir [MAX_PATH];


   #if 0
   GetModuleFileName(NULL, exedir, MAX_PATH);
   _tprintf("%s/n", exedir);
   PathRemoveFileSpec(exedir);
   _tprintf("%s/n", exedir);
   #endif

    /*Get the module's full path, and set to the current working 
directory.*/
   if (!GetModuleFileName(NULL, exedir, MAX_PATH)) {

     TCHAR errmsg[512];
     FormatMessage(FORMAT_MESSAGE_FROM_SYSTEM,0, 
GetLastError(),0,errmsg,1024,NULL);

     _tprintf( TEXT("The path is %s, and the error is %s/n"), exedir, 
errmsg );
   }


   if (!PathRemoveFileSpec(exedir)) {

     TCHAR errmsg[512];
     FormatMessage(FORMAT_MESSAGE_FROM_SYSTEM,0, 
GetLastError(),0,errmsg,1024,NULL);
     _tprintf( TEXT("The target dir is %s, and the error is %s/n"), 
exedir, errmsg );
   }

   if (!SetCurrentDirectory(exedir)) {

     TCHAR errmsg[512];
     FormatMessage(FORMAT_MESSAGE_FROM_SYSTEM,0, 
GetLastError(),0,errmsg,1024,NULL);
     _tprintf( TEXT("The working dir is %s, and the error is %s/n"), 
exedir,errmsg );
   }


     PyRun_SimpleString("exec(open(\"QuickWho.py\").read())");
     Py_Finalize();

     return 0;
}

Can anyone suggest what I might do to get Tkinter to load and run my exe?

Thanks,
Kevin

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Apr  5 07:50:42 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 21:50:42 +1000
Subject: Promoting Python
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <85oa9o6zql.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

"Gordon( Hotmail )" <sionet3344 at hotmail.co.uk> writes:

> I am struggling to understand the basic principles of Python

Welcome! Congratulations for embarking on Python as a language to learn.

Since as you say you are trying to learn the very basics, please
participate in our collaborative tutoring forum
<URL:https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor>.

-- 
 \        ?If one tells the truth, one is sure, sooner or later, to be |
  `\   found out.? ?Oscar Wilde, _Phrases and Philosophies for the Use |
_o__)                                              of the Young_, 1894 |
Ben Finney



From Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com  Tue Apr  5 07:54:49 2016
From: Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com (Joaquin Alzola)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:54:49 +0000
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <85oa9o6zql.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <85oa9o6zql.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <DB5PR07MB14963D993454116AB3D14196F09E0@DB5PR07MB1496.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>


>"Gordon( Hotmail )" <sionet3344 at hotmail.co.uk> writes:

>> I am struggling to understand the basic principles of Python

>Welcome! Congratulations for embarking on Python as a language to learn.

>Since as you say you are trying to learn the very basics, please participate in our collaborative tutoring forum <URL:https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor>.

Python is like shell scripting but with Steroids. For a SysAdmin is a must.
This email is confidential and may be subject to privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not copy or disclose its content but contact the sender immediately upon receipt.

From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 08:06:02 2016
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:06:02 -0400
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <dfada2fa-39b9-4d89-a47c-c4e0742be9e0@googlegroups.com>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <dfada2fa-39b9-4d89-a47c-c4e0742be9e0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+z_qHgEK5NFNwNijt2Nj6vp17kCPNChzZ_hdvDaosgi_A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 3:31 AM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 12:53:13 PM UTC+5:30, Gordon( Hotmail ) wrote:
>> I am struggling to understand the basic principles of Python having spent many years as a pure Amateur tinkering with a variety of BASIC  as you can see on my site at http://www.sigord.co.uk/  I think you will agree all such versions of Basic I have used are far easier to understand than Python. Though with my limited knowledge I accept Python may have many advantages over say Liberty Basic etc.
>>
>> The problem I am finding is most of the sites claiming to help understand Python devote far too much space bragging about the wonders of Python instead of concentrating how to make sensible use of it. For example I struggle to find examples of such as below if you could please help me. If I manage to duplicate some of my efforts on my site with Python I will be happy to upload the code to my site. I will also try to upload working exec files of such also, except my previous attempts at downloading the relevant software was blocked by AVG software as risky.
>>
>> Gordon
>>
>>
>> Liberty Basic
>> for n = 32 to 255: print n;chr$(n) : next n
>
> I grew up on BBC basic in 1984. Not used thereafter.
>
> Your first one is (I guess) this in python:
>
>>>> for i in range(32,127):
> ...   print chr(i),
> ...
>   ! " # $ % & ' ( ) * + , - . / 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 : ; < = > ? @ A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z [ \ ] ^ _ ` a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z { | } ~
>
>>
>> REM BBC Basic
>> FOR c = 1 TO 15 : COLOUR c
>>   PRINT "Color ";c
>> NEXT c
>>
>> REM BBC Basic
>> c = 0
>> FOR x = 80 TO 2000 STEP 96
>>   GCOL c: CIRCLE FILL x,500,50 : c = c + 1
>> NEXT x
>
> If you tell us some more of what color, gcol etc do someone will likely show you
> Though in all fairness I dont expect it to be as pithy as the BASIC
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

The color stuff has to do with DOS based 16 color displays I think.
Or maybe it worked with other 16 color displays of the time

-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays


From marko at pacujo.net  Tue Apr  5 08:31:05 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 15:31:05 +0300
Subject: Promoting Python
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <dfada2fa-39b9-4d89-a47c-c4e0742be9e0@googlegroups.com>
 <8297gblfu46c3p57sbu5i5h2lprsrl29u5@4ax.com>
 <mailman.65.1459858471.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <877fgci6eu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com>:
> 	For the OP: Very few languages have built-in graphics commands;
> which is why porting BASIC programs was so difficult. This means you
> have to import some graphical framework and use ITS command functions.

The Racket dialect of the Scheme programming language has an interesting
approach:

   | > (circle 10)
   | ?

   [...]

   | > (rectangle 10 20)
   | ?


   [...]

   | > (hc-append (circle 10) (rectangle 10 20))
   | ??

   <URL: https://docs.racket-lang.org/quick/>

Follow the link for more elaborate examples.


Marko


From marko at pacujo.net  Tue Apr  5 08:34:22 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 15:34:22 +0300
Subject: Promoting Python
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <85oa9o6zql.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <DB5PR07MB14963D993454116AB3D14196F09E0@DB5PR07MB1496.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <mailman.67.1459859248.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8737r0i69d.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Joaquin Alzola <Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com>:

> Python is like shell scripting but with Steroids. For a SysAdmin is a must.
> This email is confidential and may be subject to privilege. If you are
> not the intended recipient, please do not copy or disclose its content
> but contact the sender immediately upon receipt.

Oh, I didn't notice the end of the paragraph at first and ended up
reading the beginning.

If I wasn't the intended recipient, I apologize. I recommend you to
encrypt your future messages with rot-13 to make sure such breaches of
confidentiality won't be inadvertently repeated.


Marko


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Apr  5 08:46:33 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 14:46:33 +0200
Subject: Promoting Python
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <ne0c3a$vl6$1@ger.gmane.org>

Gordon( Hotmail ) wrote:

Welcome!

> I am struggling to understand the basic principles of Python having spent
> many years as a pure Amateur tinkering with a variety of BASIC  as you can
> see on my site at http://www.sigord.co.uk/  I think you will agree all
> such versions of Basic I have used are far easier to understand than
> Python. 

I don't think it is Python versus Basic; older computers had simpler 
hardware and ran simpler software. Try to find your way around in the 
variant of Basic used by Microsoft's Word or Excel to see what I mean. You 
can show a dialog to fill in a form, but you may also be able to instrument 
a hostile takover of the machine of someone who opens your "document".

Python still allows you to write simple scripts that read a text file line 
by line, do something with the contents, and print the results in a terminal 
window or write them to another file. 

It also has libraries for almost everything you can imagine, too many to 
know all of them. The first thing you do when you try something new is to 
look for a library that may help. What are your options? Is there a de-facto 
standard? Is there something more advanced that promises to reduce the 
amount of code you'll have to write? Is there even a complete application 
ready to use?

> Though with my limited knowledge I accept Python may have many
> advantages over say Liberty Basic etc.
> 
> The problem I am finding is most of the sites claiming to help understand
> Python devote far too much space bragging about the wonders of Python
> instead of concentrating how to make sensible use of it. For example I
> struggle to find examples of such as below if you could please help me. 

> Liberty Basic
> for n = 32 to 255: print n;chr$(n) : next n

This is pretty much what it used to be:


for i in range(32, 256):
    print(i, chr(i))

The main gotcha is that Python uses half-open intervals (i. e. range(32, 
256) does include 32 but not 256).


> REM BBC Basic
> FOR c = 1 TO 15 : COLOUR c
>   PRINT "Color ";c
> NEXT c

You may find that easy to understand, but what is 

COLOUR 7

? Without the Basic manual you have no way of knowing.

Here's a simple way to print colored text in Python:

from termcolor import cprint
for color in ["grey", "red", "green", "yellow", "blue", "magenta", "cyan"]:
    cprint("Colour:", color)
cprint("Colour: white", "white", "on_red")

Here the hard part is finding the library that best fits your need.  
"termcolor" which I used is not part of Python's standard library, you have 
to download it from the Python Package Index (or install it from the 
repositories of your distribution if you are a Linux user).

> REM BBC Basic
> c = 0
> FOR x = 80 TO 2000 STEP 96
>   GCOL c: CIRCLE FILL x,500,50 : c = c + 1
> NEXT x

This is again harder. You don't get direct access to the screen; you have to 
pick a toolkit that is typically a library written in C or C++ with a thin 
Python wrapper. The C/C++ languages tend to offer interfaces that require a 
lot of bookkeeping, and some of this makes it into the Python interface. 

Another source of complexity is that these toolkits' main purpose is not 
drawing shapes on the screen.

In tkinter, for example, which is part of the standard library and wraps 
code written in TCL and C, you have to create a Window (called "Toplevel") 
and put a "Canvas" widget into it:

import tkinter as tk

root = tk.Tk()
canvas = tk.Canvas(root, width=500, height=300)
canvas.pack()

def circle(x, y, radius, fillcolor=None):
    """Draw a circle of `radius` around the center (`x`, `y`)."""
    canvas.create_oval(x-radius, y-radius, x+radius, y+radius, 
fill=fillcolor)

RADIUS = 25
x = 80
for fillcolor in ["navy", None, "silver", "maroon", "white"]:
    circle(x, 150, RADIUS, fillcolor)
    x += 80 # draw next circle 80 pixels to the right
root.mainloop()

I iterated over the colors instead of the positions; I also wrote a helper 
function to allow you to specify the circles by their center and radius 
instead of the bounding box.

For beginners or children there is also the "turtle" module, a port of a 
library initially written in Logo.


> If
> I manage to duplicate some of my efforts on my site with Python I will be
> happy to upload the code to my site. I will also try to upload working
> exec files of such also, except my previous attempts at downloading the
> relevant software was blocked by AVG software as risky.

Before you really get frustrated you might consider using a cheap spare 
computer with a Linux installation for your experiments. If you don't hoard 
old machines in your basement the raspberry pi and the raspbian distribution 
nicely fit that bill ;)

> I am struggling to understand the basic principles of Python having spent

A good place to find help while making your first steps is the tutor mailing 
list.



From random832 at fastmail.com  Tue Apr  5 09:44:04 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 09:44:04 -0400
Subject: ANN: intervalset Was: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <570350DA.7080401@shopzeus.com>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
 <1459523394.2611014.565840994.593DD99A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <570213CB.8040101@shopzeus.com>
 <1459782597.3444051.568344234.048046C6@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <570350DA.7080401@shopzeus.com>
Message-ID: <1459863844.461427.569565137.1D86E8B2@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016, at 01:44, Nagy L?szl? Zsolt wrote:
> If you want to manipulate an interval set, you cannot just "add another
> interval" to it. Adding an interval may result in unifying thousands of
> other intervals. It is possible that you add a wide interval to a set
> with 1000 elements, and as a result the set will have only a single
> element.

Yeah, but it's not clear why the add method can't do the same
unification that the constructor does.

> How about creating two classes for this? One that supports zero sized
> intervals, and another that doesn't?

If you don't want zero sized intervals, just don't put any in it. You
don't have a separate list type to support even integers vs one that
supports all floats. What operations are made different in
implementation by this restriction?

> Well, here is the problem: floats, ints, decimals and datetimes are all
> ordered types. But they all have a different resolution, and some of
> them are implementation dependent.

All real number types should be considered a single type for the purpose
of implementing something like this. There's no reason you shouldn't be
able to mix floats, ints, Decimals, and Fractions (the last of which has
conceptually infinite resolution).

> We must know and use the smallest
> resolution, even if we use boolean flags to denote openness. For
> example: if we use integer values, then the closed interval [1,9] is
> equal to the open interval (0,10) or the left-open interval (0,10]. We
> want to be able to compare them, so we must know the resolution!

There's no reason to consider (0, 10) equal to _any_ closed interval.

> If we
> stay at the generalized form of the class that can be used on any
> ordered type, then we cannot avoid using the concept of the "resolution
> of the type". Here are the choices:
> 
>   * Use boolean flags to denote openness:
>       o We do not support testing for interval equality - I think that
>         missing this fundamental operator would make the implementation
>         useless.

I don't see how considering some intervals to not be equal to others
means not supporting testing interval equality.

>       o Support testing for internal equality - this requires knowledge
>         about the smallest resolution, so in this case using flags to
>         denote openness makes it possible to represent the same interval
>         in 4 different ways! (left opened/closed, right opened/closed).
>         I think this is also a bad idea.
>       o We may have an agreement about how we should represent certain
>         intervals from the 4 different possible opportunities, but the
>         simplest way would be to always store them as closed intervals -
>         which makes these boolean flags unneccessary
>   * Do not use boolean flags to denote openness - I don't see any
>     problem here.
> 
> 
> I think the problem is that you are thinking the mathematical way, where
> an open interval can never be equal to a closed interval. I was thinking
> the IT way, where everything is represented with bits, and the "open
> interval" is just a concept that always has a biggest and a smallest
> possible value.

The smallest possible value of a Fraction above zero is limited only by
available memory (its denominator is the largest possible int). You
could also reasonably implement a "higher-resolution datetime class"
which can be interchangeably and compared with normal datetimes... maybe
even with a Fraction for fractional seconds.

> Well, I have also implemented __gt__ but its interpretation is equally
> blurry. When two intervals overlap, which is the bigger?

With set types, the comparison operations are is-subset-of operations,
i.e. a < b returns true if a is _completely contained within_ b, and
false if they do not intersect or they overlap differently on both
sides. It does not imply that all values in a are less than all values
in b (that would be a different operation)

> My original
> task was to compare working hours (intervals) of employees and in that
> interpretation, the above "contains" operation was useful.

Of course the operation is useful. My entire point is that it should be
spelled "a < b" not "a in b".

Look at sets to see what I'm talking about:

{1, 2} < {1, 2, 3}: True
{2, 3} < {1, 2, 3}: True
{1, 3} < {1, 2, 3}: True

{1, 2} < {2, 3}: False
{1, 2} > {2, 3}: False

{1, 2} < {1, 2}: False
{1, 2} <= {1, 2}: True


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Tue Apr  5 09:46:07 2016
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 13:46:07 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Untrusted code execution
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>

On 2016-04-03, Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> wrote:
> I'd just like to say up front that this is more of a thought experiment
> than anything else, I don't have any plans to use this idea on any
> genuinely untrusted code. Apart from anything else, there's the
> denial-of-service issue.
>
> That said, is there any way that the following Python 3.4 code could
> result in a arbitrary code execution security hole?
>
>     tree = compile(untrusted_code, "<script>", "eval", ast.PyCF_ONLY_AST)
>     for node in ast.walk(tree):
>         if (isinstance(node, ast.Name) and node.id.startswith("_") or
>             isinstance(node, ast.Attribute) and node.attr.startswith("_")):
>                 raise ValueError("Access to private values is not allowed.")
>     namespace = {"__builtins__": {"int": int, "str": str, "len": len}}
>     print(eval(compile(tree, "<script>", "eval"), namespace))

Nobody has any thoughts on this at all?


From random832 at fastmail.com  Tue Apr  5 09:59:36 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 09:59:36 -0400
Subject: ANN: intervalset Was: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <57037318.6050703@shopzeus.com>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
 <1459523394.2611014.565840994.593DD99A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <570213CB.8040101@shopzeus.com>
 <1459782597.3444051.568344234.048046C6@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAHVvXxRRmJKHq-H8xotY9yF+pzG+7NOSMhOwTbL4qF-N4XjTfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459784663.3451967.568464658.50905009@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57037318.6050703@shopzeus.com>
Message-ID: <1459864776.466447.569580657.1414C457@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016, at 04:11, Nagy L?szl? Zsolt wrote:
>  But there is still need to check begin <= end. But maybe
> you are right: if we suppose that nobody will try to use an interval
> where end < begin then we can use plain tuples. But then the user *must*
> make sure not to use invalid intervals.

The IntervalSet constructor and add method could switch them or throw an
exception. But I'm not saying to use plain tuples. I'm saying to make
Interval a "dumb" object, which *only* supports being constructed and
added to a set, rather than putting a bunch of set-like operations on
it.

> It is blurred by design. There is an interpretation where an interval
> between [0..4] equals to a set of intervals ([0..2],[2..4]).

No, because 2.5 is in one and not the other. Floats are orderable with
ints, so it's not reasonable to say "this is an int intervalset so no
floats are contained in it". But that's another discussion.

But why would you want to use [0..4] directly instead of ([0..4])?

> Actually,
> you can ask: "is an element within the interval?" The same question can
> be asked for an Interval set. So the same type of value can be
> "contained" within an interval and also witin an interval set. In the
> current implementation, if you try to create a set with these two
> intervals [0..2] and [2..4], then they are unified into a single element
> on purpose: to make sure that there is only a single official
> representation of it. E.g. ([0..2],[2..4]) is not a valid set, only
> ([0..4]) is.

Uh, exactly. I don't understand why any of this makes it useful to have
these operations on interval objects.

> By definition, a set is given with its elements, e.g. for any possible
> item, you can tell if it is part of the set or not. So if
> ([0..2],[2..4]) and ([0..4]) have exactly the same elements (by the
> given definition), then they are not just equal: they are the same set.
> The same reasoning is used in math when they say: there cannot be
> multiple empty sets. There exists a single empty set. It happens that we
> can only represent a finite number of elements in any set on a computer.
> I wanted to have a well defined single way to represent any given set.

What? *I* am the one who wants a well defined single way to represent a
given set. *You* are the one who wants to make [0..4] a set-like object
that is different from ([0..4]) and doesn't quite support the same
operations.

> I can also see your point. From another point a view, a set and a set of
> sets is not the same type.

I'm saying an interval is _not_ a set. It is merely part of the way of
describing the set. Just like the word "of" isn't a set just because
"the set of all even numbers" is a set.

You could consider "the set of [dates|numbers|etc] in a single interval"
to be a type of set, certainly. But there's no reason to have such a set
_not_ fully support set operations even when those operations will not
return a set of a single interval.

> However, I do not share this view, because if
> we start thinking this way, then operations like the one below does not
> make sense:
> 
> [0..4]) - (1..2] == [0..1] | [2..4]
> 
> If you make a strinct distinction between intervals and interval sets,
> then the above equation does not make sense, because you cannot remove
> an element from a set that is not an "element" of it. The above equation
> makes sense only if the "intervalset" is a general representation of
> possible values, and the "interval" type is a special representation of
> (the same) possible values.

I don't understand why you want to let the user use the "interval" type
for purposes other than adding to an intervalset in the first place
Nothing you've posted has explained this.

> It is clear when you ask the question: "is 3
> in the interval?" and you can also ask "is 3 in the interval set?"
> - so
> the value of the same type can be contained in the interval and also in
> the interval set. Maybe the naming is bad, and it should be named
> "Intervals" instead of IntervalSet?


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 10:17:08 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 07:17:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Untrusted code execution
In-Reply-To: <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 7:19:39 PM UTC+5:30, Jon Ribbens wrote:
> On 2016-04-03, Jon Ribbens wrote:
> > I'd just like to say up front that this is more of a thought experiment
> > than anything else, I don't have any plans to use this idea on any
> > genuinely untrusted code. Apart from anything else, there's the
> > denial-of-service issue.
> >
> > That said, is there any way that the following Python 3.4 code could
> > result in a arbitrary code execution security hole?
> >
> >     tree = compile(untrusted_code, "<script>", "eval", ast.PyCF_ONLY_AST)
> >     for node in ast.walk(tree):
> >         if (isinstance(node, ast.Name) and node.id.startswith("_") or
> >             isinstance(node, ast.Attribute) and node.attr.startswith("_")):
> >                 raise ValueError("Access to private values is not allowed.")
> >     namespace = {"__builtins__": {"int": int, "str": str, "len": len}}
> >     print(eval(compile(tree, "<script>", "eval"), namespace))
> 
> Nobody has any thoughts on this at all?

i actually did...

But dont know enough of the AST API to figure out what you are trying/avoiding etc


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 10:50:16 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:50:16 -0600
Subject: Untrusted code execution
In-Reply-To: <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidk3-Cd0mhKUUMn2GJVCZ5-0eNEbfoVHMQVgkuXFfKVhgg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 8:17 AM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 7:19:39 PM UTC+5:30, Jon Ribbens wrote:
>> On 2016-04-03, Jon Ribbens wrote:
>> > I'd just like to say up front that this is more of a thought experiment
>> > than anything else, I don't have any plans to use this idea on any
>> > genuinely untrusted code. Apart from anything else, there's the
>> > denial-of-service issue.
>> >
>> > That said, is there any way that the following Python 3.4 code could
>> > result in a arbitrary code execution security hole?
>> >
>> >     tree = compile(untrusted_code, "<script>", "eval", ast.PyCF_ONLY_AST)
>> >     for node in ast.walk(tree):
>> >         if (isinstance(node, ast.Name) and node.id.startswith("_") or
>> >             isinstance(node, ast.Attribute) and node.attr.startswith("_")):
>> >                 raise ValueError("Access to private values is not allowed.")
>> >     namespace = {"__builtins__": {"int": int, "str": str, "len": len}}
>> >     print(eval(compile(tree, "<script>", "eval"), namespace))
>>
>> Nobody has any thoughts on this at all?
>
> i actually did...
>
> But dont know enough of the AST API to figure out what you are trying/avoiding etc

Same here, although it looks to me like this approach could work. Or
I'm just not clever enough to see how it could be exploited.


From roland.em0001 at googlemail.com  Tue Apr  5 11:01:46 2016
From: roland.em0001 at googlemail.com (Roland Mueller)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 18:01:46 +0300
Subject: ONE CLICK REST API
In-Reply-To: <1841407921.3347562.1459750180103.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1841407921.3347562.1459750180103.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1841407921.3347562.1459750180103.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CALk2KRWqOh7V1eKKTfrQhnMajQRWmg0WjL-VU6D93r9RFoVxgw@mail.gmail.com>

You may have a look at Django-based REST framework

   - http://www.django-rest-framework.org/

or Flask-RESTful

   - https://pypi.python.org/pypi/Flask-RESTful
   - http://flask-restful-cn.readthedocs.org/en/0.3.4/

Last not least here is some article about implementing a REST API using
Flask for yourself:

   -
   http://blog.miguelgrinberg.com/post/designing-a-restful-api-with-python-and-flask


BR,
Roland

2016-04-04 9:09 GMT+03:00 David Shi via Python-list <python-list at python.org>
:

> Eclipse has got one click app for creating REST services.
> What is it equivalent in Python?
> Regards.
> David
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr  5 11:10:03 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 16:10:03 +0100
Subject: Label behavior's difference between tkinter and ttk
In-Reply-To: <570361fd$0$648$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <570361fd$0$648$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <ne0kgh$i0o$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 05/04/2016 07:57, ast wrote:
> Hello
>
> I currently migrate a GUI from tkinter to ttk and I found a problem
>
> Here is a piece of code, with comments which explain what is wrong.
>
> import tkinter as tk
> import tkinter.ttk as ttk
>
> root = tk.Tk()
>
> BITMAP0 = """
> #define zero_width 24
> #define zero_height 32
> static char zero_bits[] = {
> 0x00,0x00,0x00, 0x00,0x00,0x00, 0xf0,0x3c,0x0f, 0xf0,0x3c,0x0f,
> 0xf0,0x3c,0x0f, 0xf0,0x3c,0x0f, 0x00,0x00,0x00, 0x00,0x00,0x00,
> 0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f,
> 0x00,0x00,0x00, 0x00,0x00,0x00, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f,
> 0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0x00,0x00,0x00, 0x00,0x00,0x00,
> 0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f,
> 0x00,0x00,0x00, 0x00,0x00,0x00, 0xf0,0x3c,0x0f, 0xf0,0x3c,0x0f,
> 0xf0,0x3c,0x0f, 0xf0,0x3c,0x0f, 0x00,0x00,0x00, 0x00,0x00,0x00
> };
> """
>
> img = tk.BitmapImage(data=BITMAP0, foreground='white', background='black')
>
> # This Label comes from ttk
>
> label = ttk.Label(root, image=img)
>
> # This Label comes from tk. To be uncommented to test behavior'difference
> # label = tk.Label(root, image=img)
>
> label.pack()
>
> # The graphic is not refreshed after entering following commands
> # when Label comes from ttk. You have to fly over the label with # the
> mouse to get the right color.
> # The graphic is immediately updated when Label comes from tk
>
> # Enter these commands by hand, in a shell
>
> img.config(foreground='red')
> img.config(foreground='lime')
> img.config(foreground='yellow')
>
>
> It looks like a ttk bug, isn't it ?
> I am using python 3.5.1
>
> I tried a root.update_idletasks() to refresh the graphic
> but it changed nothings.
>

I'm no tkinter expert, but I do know that there is a huge difference 
between the way that tk and ttk widgets are configured.  Here are a few 
links that I hope will give you an idea.

http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/web/ttk-Label.html
http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/web/ttk-layouts.html
http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/web/ttk-map.html
http://www.tkdocs.com/tutorial/styles.html

In the latter you might like to note that there is a section called 
"Sound Difficult to you?".  It's well worth the read.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr  5 11:12:29 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 16:12:29 +0100
Subject: tkinter Entry validation modes
In-Reply-To: <ndp40j$vql$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <ndoner$94i$1@ger.gmane.org> <ndp40j$vql$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <ne0kl3$i0o$2@ger.gmane.org>

On 02/04/2016 19:45, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 4/2/2016 11:11 AM, Mark Lawrence via Python-list wrote:
>> A typical call to create an Entry field would be:-
>>
>> e = Entry(master, validate='all', ...)
>>
>> Once this call has been made is it possible to change the validation
>> mode at runtime?
>
> AFAIK, every keyword-only configuration option can be changed.
>
> e['validate'] = xyz
> e.config(validate=xyz)
>

Yes, there's an write up on it here 
http://effbot.org/tkinterbook/tkinter-widget-configuration.htm

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 11:23:10 2016
From: muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com (Muhammad Ali)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:23:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python script for .dat file
Message-ID: <1bb30dbb-14fc-4393-92b1-341d5e985d0f@googlegroups.com>


Hello,

Could any body tell me a general python script to generate .dat file after the extraction of data from more than 2 files, say file A and file B?

Or could any body tell me the python commands to generate .dat file after the extraction of data from two or more than two files?

I have to modify some python code.

Looking for your valuable posts.

Thank you.

Ali


From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 11:30:01 2016
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:30:01 -0400
Subject: python script for .dat file
In-Reply-To: <1bb30dbb-14fc-4393-92b1-341d5e985d0f@googlegroups.com>
References: <1bb30dbb-14fc-4393-92b1-341d5e985d0f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+zR0tY+h+p6JNCZCNZUxB838Wv9n6nN7h3O+G4XqbkG1Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Muhammad Ali
<muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Could any body tell me a general python script to generate .dat file after the extraction of data from more than 2 files, say file A and file B?
>
> Or could any body tell me the python commands to generate .dat file after the extraction of data from two or more than two files?
>
> I have to modify some python code.
>
> Looking for your valuable posts.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Ali
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

What exactly is a .dat file? and how is it different from any other
file? Is it binary or text data?


-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays


From muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 11:44:05 2016
From: muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com (Muhammad Ali)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:44:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python script for .dat file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.75.1459870210.32530.python-list@python.org>
References: <1bb30dbb-14fc-4393-92b1-341d5e985d0f@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPM-O+zR0tY+h+p6JNCZCNZUxB838Wv9n6nN7h3O+G4XqbkG1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.75.1459870210.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <169b093d-7d7a-4a9c-b343-d6b604c5c6e0@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 8:30:27 AM UTC-7, Joel Goldstick wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Muhammad Ali
> <muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Could any body tell me a general python script to generate .dat file after the extraction of data from more than 2 files, say file A and file B?
> >
> > Or could any body tell me the python commands to generate .dat file after the extraction of data from two or more than two files?
> >
> > I have to modify some python code.
> >
> > Looking for your valuable posts.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Ali
> > --
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> What exactly is a .dat file? and how is it different from any other
> file? Is it binary or text data?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Joel Goldstick
> http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
> http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays

It is text data.


From ikorot01 at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 11:56:24 2016
From: ikorot01 at gmail.com (Igor Korot)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:56:24 -0400
Subject: Install request
Message-ID: <CA+FnnTzfB81R_38RYeu8L2g1AntBaNRVY8S-ROdOAthSBZRR-g@mail.gmail.com>

 Hi, python community,
Recently there was a huge number of e-mail stating that the python
installer does not work.

When asked about it, people reveal that they wee using Windows and
they were getting
errors about missing DLL.

I know for a fact that in the InstallShield it is possible to detect
the OS you are trying
to install on.

So, here is my request: if its not possible to include the DLL in
question in the installer,
can the installer check for the OS version and ask the user to go to
Microsoft.com,
download and install the library?

It looks like people don't want to use their common sense and just
wanted to waste
everybody's time by asking what went wrong instead of just download
the dll executable
from MS site and install it.

Can something like this be done to eliminate those questions in the
future and let people
concentrate on the real python issues?

Thank you.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr  5 11:57:44 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 16:57:44 +0100
Subject: python script for .dat file
In-Reply-To: <1bb30dbb-14fc-4393-92b1-341d5e985d0f@googlegroups.com>
References: <1bb30dbb-14fc-4393-92b1-341d5e985d0f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ne0n9u$3ge$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 05/04/2016 16:23, Muhammad Ali wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Could any body tell me a general python script to generate .dat file after the extraction of data from more than 2 files, say file A and file B?
>
> Or could any body tell me the python commands to generate .dat file after the extraction of data from two or more than two files?
>
> I have to modify some python code.
>
> Looking for your valuable posts.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Ali
>

https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/inputoutput.html#reading-and-writing-files

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 12:07:14 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 17:07:14 +0100
Subject: python script for .dat file
In-Reply-To: <169b093d-7d7a-4a9c-b343-d6b604c5c6e0@googlegroups.com>
References: <1bb30dbb-14fc-4393-92b1-341d5e985d0f@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPM-O+zR0tY+h+p6JNCZCNZUxB838Wv9n6nN7h3O+G4XqbkG1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.75.1459870210.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <169b093d-7d7a-4a9c-b343-d6b604c5c6e0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxSUuac1bWnBk5B4BVr+E-1dxhUN8Z=z+0cXcqZNyuCvyw@mail.gmail.com>

On 5 April 2016 at 16:44, Muhammad Ali <muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 8:30:27 AM UTC-7, Joel Goldstick wrote:
>> On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Muhammad Ali
>> <muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Could any body tell me a general python script to generate .dat file after the extraction of data from more than 2 files, say file A and file B?
>> >
>> > Or could any body tell me the python commands to generate .dat file after the extraction of data from two or more than two files?
>> >
>> > I have to modify some python code.
>>
>> What exactly is a .dat file? and how is it different from any other
>> file? Is it binary or text data?
>
> It is text data.

You haven't provided enough information for someone to answer your
question. This is a text mailing list so if a .dat file is text then
you can paste here an example of what it would look like. What would
be in your input files and what would be in your output files? What
code have you already written?

If the file is large then don't paste its entire content here. Just
show an example of what the data would look like if it were a smaller
file (maybe just show the first few lines of the file).

Probably what you want to do is easily achieved with basic Python
commands so I would recommend to have a look at a tutorial. There are
some listed here:
https://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/NonProgrammers

Also the tutor mailing list is probably more appropriate for this
level of question:
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

--
Oscar


From morkovnicolae at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 12:17:54 2016
From: morkovnicolae at gmail.com (Nicolae Morkov)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 17:17:54 +0100
Subject: Import graphics error
In-Reply-To: <CAO5nurM_6d+3Tz5-=uo1w_nVygFtuwatjejHvhfkUTD-DhvBoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO5nurM_6d+3Tz5-=uo1w_nVygFtuwatjejHvhfkUTD-DhvBoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO5nurPUH0GoPje3ZpEPOTP0+AgjomQeDG1BL3pduUkeHYikbA@mail.gmail.com>

I copied the code from Python from everyone page 67.....
Following the instructions The graphic modules by John Zelle I copied  into
the python lacation ,to be easier to find the path .....


On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 11:19 AM, Nicolae Morkov <morkovnicolae at gmail.com>
wrote:

> # This program creates a graphics window with a rectangle. It provides the
> 3 # template used with all of the graphical programs used in the book.
> 4 #
> 5
> 6 from graphics import GraphicsWindow
> 7
> 8 # Create the window and access the canvas.
> 9  win = GraphicsWindow()
> 10 canvas = win.canvas()
> 11
> 12 # Draw on the canvas.
> 13 canvas.drawRect(5, 10, 20, 30)
> 14
> 15 # Wait for the user to close the window.
> 16 win.wait()
>
>
> *This is the error I get*
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File
> "C:/Users/Nicolae/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python35/pythonK/pr.py",
> line 1, in <module>
>     from graphics import GraphicsWindow
> ImportError: No module named 'graphics'
>
>
> *And when I installed graphic library the error was :*
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File
> "C:/Users/Nicolae/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python35/pythonK/pr.py",
> line 1, in <module>
>     from graphics import GraphicsWindow
> ImportError: cannot import name 'GraphicsWindow'
>


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 12:19:21 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 17:19:21 +0100
Subject: Install request
In-Reply-To: <CA+FnnTzfB81R_38RYeu8L2g1AntBaNRVY8S-ROdOAthSBZRR-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+FnnTzfB81R_38RYeu8L2g1AntBaNRVY8S-ROdOAthSBZRR-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxT33X7=-Tm6-W6kQofunrw90cxiVuJ1nQitQKPm0zyOsA@mail.gmail.com>

On 5 April 2016 at 16:56, Igor Korot <ikorot01 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So, here is my request: if its not possible to include the DLL in
> question in the installer,
> can the installer check for the OS version and ask the user to go to
> Microsoft.com,
> download and install the library?

That's a very reasonable request. Why don't you ask this question on
the issue tracker? You can find it here:

    http://bugs.python.org/

> It looks like people don't want to use their common sense and just
> wanted to waste
> everybody's time by asking what went wrong instead of just download
> the dll executable
> from MS site and install it.

I think these questions are coming from people who are completely new
to Python (and programming in general) so they find the error message
confusing and are unsure if they're doing something wrong or if the
installer hasn't worked or whatever. If you see this problem when
trying to run Python for the first time then it's hardly obvious that
you need to "update your runtime libraries".

There seem to be several different problems that Windows users are
experiencing with 3.5 and this one is the only one that actually has a
known fix: the others probably are bugs in the installer. I don't
think it's unreasonable for people to come here and ask about this. In
particular this is listed as the main place to "ask for help" on the
wiki:
https://wiki.python.org/moin/Asking%20for%20Help

Another possibility to improve this situation would be to make a page
on the wiki that actually explains the known problems (and fixes) for
3.5 on Windows.

--
Oscar


From morkovnicolae at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 12:26:04 2016
From: morkovnicolae at gmail.com (Nicolae Morkov)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 17:26:04 +0100
Subject: Import graphics error
Message-ID: <CAO5nurPOyAzvZWE3GyPbCO3CjzpgCLjiRkmiXwPLh_1oL-du5g@mail.gmail.com>

*Import graphics error*
I copied the code below from Python for Everyone page 67.....

# This program creates a graphics window with a rectangle. It provides the
3 # template used with all of the graphical programs used in the book.
4 #
5
6 from graphics import GraphicsWindow
7
8 # Create the window and access the canvas.
9 win = GraphicsWindow()
10 canvas = win.canvas()
11
12 # Draw on the canvas.
13 canvas.drawRect(5, 10, 20, 30)
14
15 # Wait for the user to close the window.
16 win.wait()


**This is the error I get* *

Traceback (most recent call last):
File
"C:/Users/Nicolae/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python35/pythonK/pr.py",
line 1, in <module>
from graphics import GraphicsWindow
ImportError: No module named 'graphics'


*Following the instructions I copied The graphic modules by John Zelle in
Python folder in Lib folder *
**And when I installed graphic library the error was :* *

Traceback (most recent call last):
File
"C:/Users/Nicolae/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python35/pythonK/pr.py",
line 1, in <module>
from graphics import GraphicsWindow
ImportError: cannot import name 'GraphicsWindow'
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 12:27:49 2016
From: muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com (Muhammad Ali)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 09:27:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python script for .dat file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.78.1459872460.32530.python-list@python.org>
References: <1bb30dbb-14fc-4393-92b1-341d5e985d0f@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPM-O+zR0tY+h+p6JNCZCNZUxB838Wv9n6nN7h3O+G4XqbkG1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.75.1459870210.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <169b093d-7d7a-4a9c-b343-d6b604c5c6e0@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxSUuac1bWnBk5B4BVr+E-1dxhUN8Z=z+0cXcqZNyuCvyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.78.1459872460.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0e52fb26-0a0d-4b40-ba98-de5945dcc66e@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 9:07:54 AM UTC-7, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
> On 5 April 2016 at 16:44, Muhammad Ali <muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 8:30:27 AM UTC-7, Joel Goldstick wrote:
> >> On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Muhammad Ali
> >> <muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Could any body tell me a general python script to generate .dat file after the extraction of data from more than 2 files, say file A and file B?
> >> >
> >> > Or could any body tell me the python commands to generate .dat file after the extraction of data from two or more than two files?
> >> >
> >> > I have to modify some python code.
> >>
> >> What exactly is a .dat file? and how is it different from any other
> >> file? Is it binary or text data?
> >
> > It is text data.
> 
> You haven't provided enough information for someone to answer your
> question. This is a text mailing list so if a .dat file is text then
> you can paste here an example of what it would look like. What would
> be in your input files and what would be in your output files? What
> code have you already written?
> 
> If the file is large then don't paste its entire content here. Just
> show an example of what the data would look like if it were a smaller
> file (maybe just show the first few lines of the file).
> 
> Probably what you want to do is easily achieved with basic Python
> commands so I would recommend to have a look at a tutorial. There are
> some listed here:
> https://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/NonProgrammers
> 
> Also the tutor mailing list is probably more appropriate for this
> level of question:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
> 
> --
> Oscar

Input and outout files are text files. e.g: 
#KptCoord #E-E_Fermi #delta_N
  0.0000  -22.0000   0.000E+00
  0.0707  -22.0000   0.000E+00
  0.1415  -22.0000   0.000E+00
  0.2122  -22.0000   0.000E+00
  0.2830  -22.0000   0.000E+00
  0.3537  -22.0000   0.000E+00
  0.4245  -22.0000   0.000E+00
  0.4952  -22.0000   0.000E+00
  0.5660  -22.0000   0.000E+00
  0.6367  -22.0000   0.000E+00
  0.7075  -22.0000   0.000E+00
  0.7782  -22.0000   0.000E+00
  0.8490  -22.0000   0.000E+00
  0.9197  -22.0000   0.000E+00
  0.9905  -22.0000   0.000E+00


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 12:52:41 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 09:52:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Install request
In-Reply-To: <mailman.79.1459873183.32530.python-list@python.org>
References: <CA+FnnTzfB81R_38RYeu8L2g1AntBaNRVY8S-ROdOAthSBZRR-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHVvXxT33X7=-Tm6-W6kQofunrw90cxiVuJ1nQitQKPm0zyOsA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.79.1459873183.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1228f650-7725-4604-a434-1300501ca96e@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 9:49:58 PM UTC+5:30, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
> Another possibility to improve this situation would be to make a page
> on the wiki that actually explains the known problems (and fixes) for
> 3.5 on Windows.

+10 on that one
ie When a question becomes a FAQ just put it there


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 13:12:07 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 03:12:07 +1000
Subject: Untrusted code execution
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidk3-Cd0mhKUUMn2GJVCZ5-0eNEbfoVHMQVgkuXFfKVhgg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidk3-Cd0mhKUUMn2GJVCZ5-0eNEbfoVHMQVgkuXFfKVhgg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrXgG77VOuKpJkP3qT2-k+uYFAD5kZk0ik4hp+M69=Bkg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 12:50 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> Same here, although it looks to me like this approach could work. Or
> I'm just not clever enough to see how it could be exploited.

Having been bitten in the past (our test box was compromised by
python-list white hats within 20 minutes of the invitation being sent
out), I would go with the second of your options. Nearly anything is
vulnerable if it's permitted to execute arbitrary code; all it takes
is a sufficiently smart operator.

ChrisA


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Tue Apr  5 13:26:50 2016
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 17:26:50 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Untrusted code execution
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>

On 2016-04-05, Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 7:19:39 PM UTC+5:30, Jon Ribbens wrote:
>> On 2016-04-03, Jon Ribbens wrote:
>> > I'd just like to say up front that this is more of a thought experiment
>> > than anything else, I don't have any plans to use this idea on any
>> > genuinely untrusted code. Apart from anything else, there's the
>> > denial-of-service issue.
>> >
>> > That said, is there any way that the following Python 3.4 code could
>> > result in a arbitrary code execution security hole?
>> >
>> >     tree = compile(untrusted_code, "<script>", "eval", ast.PyCF_ONLY_AST)
>> >     for node in ast.walk(tree):
>> >         if (isinstance(node, ast.Name) and node.id.startswith("_") or
>> >             isinstance(node, ast.Attribute) and node.attr.startswith("_")):
>> >                 raise ValueError("Access to private values is not allowed.")
>> >     namespace = {"__builtins__": {"int": int, "str": str, "len": len}}
>> >     print(eval(compile(tree, "<script>", "eval"), namespace))
>> 
>> Nobody has any thoughts on this at all?
>
> i actually did...
>
> But dont know enough of the AST API to figure out what you are
> trying/avoiding etc

The idea is that it should prevent you from accessing any names or
attributes that start with an underscore.

Python 2 used to have an 'rexec' module that was supposed to allow
restricted execution of code. This was deprecated because it was
insecure and in Python 3 it was completely removed.

Generally speaking the way that people broke out of restricted
environments was to try and get access to the unrestricted "builtins"
so you could use __import__(), open(), the code type, etc which then
mean you can do almost anything or at least mess with the file system. 

The way that you went looking for "builtins" was to wander about the
object tree by doing things like:
  "".__class__.__base__.__subclasses__()
etc and, e.g. finding a function and doing
  func.__globals__["__builtins__"]
or perhaps creating a raw code object via:
  (lambda a: 1).__code__.__class__(...arbitrary code...)()

The point is that as far as I can see basically all such techniques
are completely prevented if you cannot access "__" attributes (let
alone "_" ones). 

The received wisdom is that restricted code execution in Python is
an insolubly hard problem, but it looks a bit like my 7-line example
above disproves this theory, provided you choose carefully what you
provide in your restricted __builtins__ - but people who knows more
than me about Python seem to have thought about this problem for
longer than I have and come up with the opposite conclusion so I'm
curious what I'm missing.

(Again this all comes with the caveat that DoS is always easy -
just something trivial like '"*"*10**10**10' is going to break things.
But DoS is a far cry from remote code execution.)


From srkunze at mail.de  Tue Apr  5 13:38:50 2016
From: srkunze at mail.de (Sven R. Kunze)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 19:38:50 +0200
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
In-Reply-To: <5703185f$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
 <5703185f$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <5703F82A.7020603@mail.de>

On 05.04.2016 03:43, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> The purpose of packages isn't enable Java-style "one class per file" coding,
> especially since *everything* in the package except the top level "bidict"
> module itself is private. bidict.compat and bidict.util aren't flagged as
> private, but they should be, since there's nothing in either of them that
> the user of a bidict class should care about.
>
> (utils.py does export a couple of functions, but they should be in the main
> module, or possibly made into a method of BidirectionalMapping.)
>
> Your package is currently under 500 lines. As it stands now, you could
> easily flatten it to a single module:
>
> bidict.py

I don't recommend this.

The line is blurry but 500 is definitely too much. Those will simply not 
fit on a 1 or 2 generous single screens anymore (which basically is our 
guideline). The intention here is to always have a bit more of a full 
screen of code (no wasted pixels) while benefiting from switching to 
another file (also seeing a full page of other code).

This said, and after having a look at your packages code, it's quite 
well structured and you have almost always more than 1 name defined in 
each submodule. So, it's fine. _frozen and _loose are a bit empty but 
well don't let's stretch rules here too far.

I remember us having some years ago file that regularly hit the 3000 or 
4000 lines of code. We systematically split those up, refactored them 
and took our time to name those module appropriately. Basically we 
started with:

base.py << trashcan for whatever somebody might need

to

base.py << really the base
domain_specific1.py  << something you can remember
domain_specific2.py  << ...
domain_specific3.py
domain_specific4.py


> Unless you are getting some concrete benefit from a package structure, you
> shouldn't use a package just for the sake of it.

I agree.

> Even if the code doubles
> in size, to 1000 lines, that's still *far* below the point at which I
> believe a single module becomes unwieldy just from size. At nearly 6500
> lines, the decimal.py module is, in my opinion, *almost* at the point where
> just size alone suggests splitting the file into submodules. Your module is
> nowhere near that point.

I disagree completely. After reading his package, the structure really 
helped me. So, I see a benefit.


I agree with Steven that hiding where a name comes from is a bit 
problematic. Additionally, as we use PyCharm internally, 1) we don't see 
imports regularly 2) we don't create/optimize them manually anymore 3) 
we just don't care if the import is too long. So, it's fine to us and as 
PyCharm tried not to be overly clever when it comes to detecting names, 
we like the direct way.

In case of our PyPI module, usability is really important for newbies 
and people not using sophisticated IDEs. So, making it really easy for 
them is a must. :)

Best,
Sven


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Tue Apr  5 13:40:37 2016
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 17:40:37 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Untrusted code execution
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidk3-Cd0mhKUUMn2GJVCZ5-0eNEbfoVHMQVgkuXFfKVhgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrXgG77VOuKpJkP3qT2-k+uYFAD5kZk0ik4hp+M69=Bkg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.82.1459876335.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnng7uaq.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>

On 2016-04-05, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 12:50 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Same here, although it looks to me like this approach could work. Or
>> I'm just not clever enough to see how it could be exploited.
>
> Having been bitten in the past (our test box was compromised by
> python-list white hats within 20 minutes of the invitation being sent
> out), I would go with the second of your options. Nearly anything is
> vulnerable if it's permitted to execute arbitrary code; all it takes
> is a sufficiently smart operator.

I am inviting sufficiently smart operators to demonstrate the flaw in
my suggested code ;-)


From asimkostas at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 13:42:57 2016
From: asimkostas at gmail.com (asimkon .)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 20:42:57 +0300
Subject: mod_wsgi not compatible with Wamp 2.4 and python 3.4.3
Message-ID: <CA+9XG=NgpoAEQWeS0MT_XDa2Bz0-vrM=SUYsCT5aMg5j9iwoZA@mail.gmail.com>

I am using Apache to develop Python Web applications via Django. As i am
new to python web development, i am having problem to find the right
version for mod_wsgi.so (compiled version for Apache 2.4.4 - WampServer 2.4
- and python 3.4.3 latest version from ActivePython on Windows x86) and i
get a 500 internal server error "The server encountered an internal error
or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request".

when i try to run the following script:

def application(environment, start_response):
status = '200 OK'
response_headers = [('Content-type', 'text/html')]
start_response(status, response_headers)
page = """
<html>
<body>
<h1>Hello world!</h1>
<p>This is being served using mod_wsgi</p>
</body>
</html>
"""
return page

I just found the following link
http://grapevine.dyndns-ip.com/download/folder.asp?eid=33&folder=%2Fdownload%2Fapache%2Fmod_wsgi-windows-4.4.6%2Fmod_wsgi-windows-4.4.6%2Fapache24-win32-vc10%2Fmodules%2F
but unfortunately i have got incompatibility problems with the compiled
files mentioned. Any kind of help would be convenient to me.

I am looking for the compiled (.so file) version, as it will save me from a
lot of trouble.

Regards
Kostas  Asimakopoulos


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 13:48:09 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 03:48:09 +1000
Subject: Untrusted code execution
In-Reply-To: <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 3:26 AM, Jon Ribbens
<jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> wrote:
> The received wisdom is that restricted code execution in Python is
> an insolubly hard problem, but it looks a bit like my 7-line example
> above disproves this theory, provided you choose carefully what you
> provide in your restricted __builtins__ - but people who knows more
> than me about Python seem to have thought about this problem for
> longer than I have and come up with the opposite conclusion so I'm
> curious what I'm missing.

No, it doesn't disprove anything. All you've shown is "here's a piece
of code that hasn't yet been compromised". :) What you're missing is a
demonstrated exploit against your code. I can't provide one, but it's
entirely possible that one will be found.

Your code is a *lot* safer for using 'eval' rather than 'exec'.
Otherwise, you'd be easily exploited using exceptions, which carry a
ton of info. But even so, I would not bet money (much less the
security of my systems) on this being safe.

ChrisA


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 13:52:52 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:52:52 -0600
Subject: Untrusted code execution
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnFMUwbWdXdkzj2XiJW6rV5rcDktp+Ks=rDBtd+Y=-HOA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 11:48 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> Your code is a *lot* safer for using 'eval' rather than 'exec'.
> Otherwise, you'd be easily exploited using exceptions, which carry a
> ton of info. But even so, I would not bet money (much less the
> security of my systems) on this being safe.

Not to mention "import". :-P


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 13:59:41 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 03:59:41 +1000
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
In-Reply-To: <5703F82A.7020603@mail.de>
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
 <5703185f$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <5703F82A.7020603@mail.de>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrZjXxyi-NpuQYdantWbrGM=sHyJsUnBXg4TamJxTJUnw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 3:38 AM, Sven R. Kunze <srkunze at mail.de> wrote:
>> Your package is currently under 500 lines. As it stands now, you could
>> easily flatten it to a single module:
>>
>> bidict.py
>
>
> I don't recommend this.
>
> The line is blurry but 500 is definitely too much. Those will simply not fit
> on a 1 or 2 generous single screens anymore (which basically is our
> guideline). The intention here is to always have a bit more of a full screen
> of code (no wasted pixels) while benefiting from switching to another file
> (also seeing a full page of other code).

Clearly this is a matter of opinion. I have absolutely no problem with
a 500-lne file. As soon as you force people to split things across
files, you add a new level of indirection that causes new problems.
I'd rather keep logically-related code together rather than splitting
across arbitrary boundaries; you can always search within a file for
the bit you want. When you split a file into two, you duplicate the
headers at the top (imports and stuff), so you'll split a 100-line
file into two 60-line files or so. Do that to several levels in a big
project and you end up with a lot more billable lines of code, but no
actual improvement. I guess that's worth doing - lovely billable hours
doing the refactoring, more billable hours later on when you have to
read past the migration in source control ("where did this line come
from" gets two answers all the time), and more billable hours dealing
with circular imports when two fragments start referring to each
other. Sounds like a plan.

ChrisA


From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Tue Apr  5 14:02:21 2016
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 18:02:21 GMT
Subject: Promoting Python
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <dfada2fa-39b9-4d89-a47c-c4e0742be9e0@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPM-O+z_qHgEK5NFNwNijt2Nj6vp17kCPNChzZ_hdvDaosgi_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.64.1459857970.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <N4TMy.410004$fz.288710@fx37.am4>

On Tue, 05 Apr 2016 08:06:02 -0400, Joel Goldstick wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 3:31 AM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 12:53:13 PM UTC+5:30, Gordon( Hotmail )
>> wrote:
>>> I am struggling to understand the basic principles of Python having
>>> spent many years as a pure Amateur tinkering with a variety of BASIC 
>>> as you can see on my site at http://www.sigord.co.uk/  I think you
>>> will agree all such versions of Basic I have used are far easier to
>>> understand than Python. Though with my limited knowledge I accept
>>> Python may have many advantages over say Liberty Basic etc.
>>>
>>> The problem I am finding is most of the sites claiming to help
>>> understand Python devote far too much space bragging about the wonders
>>> of Python instead of concentrating how to make sensible use of it. For
>>> example I struggle to find examples of such as below if you could
>>> please help me. If I manage to duplicate some of my efforts on my site
>>> with Python I will be happy to upload the code to my site. I will also
>>> try to upload working exec files of such also, except my previous
>>> attempts at downloading the relevant software was blocked by AVG
>>> software as risky.
>>>
>>> Gordon
>>>
>>>
>>> Liberty Basic for n = 32 to 255: print n;chr$(n) : next n
>>
>> I grew up on BBC basic in 1984. Not used thereafter.
>>
>> Your first one is (I guess) this in python:
>>
>>>>> for i in range(32,127):
>> ...   print chr(i),
>> ...
>>   ! " # $ % & ' ( ) * + , - . / 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 : ; < = > ? @ A B C
>>   D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z [ \ ] ^ _ ` a b c d e f
>>   g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z { | } ~
>>
>>
>>> REM BBC Basic FOR c = 1 TO 15 : COLOUR c
>>>   PRINT "Color ";c
>>> NEXT c
>>>
>>> REM BBC Basic c = 0 FOR x = 80 TO 2000 STEP 96
>>>   GCOL c: CIRCLE FILL x,500,50 : c = c + 1
>>> NEXT x
>>
>> If you tell us some more of what color, gcol etc do someone will likely
>> show you Though in all fairness I dont expect it to be as pithy as the
>> BASIC --
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> The color stuff has to do with DOS based 16 color displays I think.
> Or maybe it worked with other 16 color displays of the time

No
If that code is BBC basic then it would print the word Colour followed by 
the numbers 1 - 15

For x in range (1,16):
	print "Colour %s"%x



-- 
fat electrons in the lines


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 14:14:58 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 04:14:58 +1000
Subject: Untrusted code execution
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnFMUwbWdXdkzj2XiJW6rV5rcDktp+Ks=rDBtd+Y=-HOA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALwzidnFMUwbWdXdkzj2XiJW6rV5rcDktp+Ks=rDBtd+Y=-HOA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqQDkpcbvMSK5Bh2aMX246Bk9mS-9D6sf66GywBxOuqrQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 3:52 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 11:48 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Your code is a *lot* safer for using 'eval' rather than 'exec'.
>> Otherwise, you'd be easily exploited using exceptions, which carry a
>> ton of info. But even so, I would not bet money (much less the
>> security of my systems) on this being safe.
>
> Not to mention "import". :-P

Nah. That one's easy to blank out. Once you go to a restricted
builtins, the import statement breaks:

>>> def safe_exec(untrusted_code):
...     tree = compile(untrusted_code, "<script>", "exec", ast.PyCF_ONLY_AST)
...     for node in ast.walk(tree):
...         if (isinstance(node, ast.Name) and node.id.startswith("_") or
...             isinstance(node, ast.Attribute) and node.attr.startswith("_")):
...                 raise ValueError("Access to private values is not allowed.")
...     namespace = {"__builtins__": {"int": int, "str": str, "len": len}}
...     print(eval(compile(tree, "<script>", "exec"), namespace))
...
>>> safe_exec("import foo")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "<stdin>", line 8, in safe_exec
  File "<script>", line 1, in <module>
ImportError: __import__ not found

But exceptions aren't blocked, and you can retrieve them and do all
manner of stuff. You can also create objects of various types using
literal/display syntax, and that might let you craft some weird
construct that effectively access those attributes without actually
having an attribute that starts with an underscore. (Think of
"getattr(x, '\x5f_class__')", although obviously it'll take more work
than that, since getattr itself isn't available.)

ChrisA


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Apr  5 14:40:48 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 11:40:48 -0700
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
In-Reply-To: <5703185f$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
 <5703185f$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <570406B0.9020306@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/04/2016 06:43 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 02:47 am, Josh B. wrote:
>
>> My package, available at https://github.com/jab/bidict, is currently laid
>> out like this:
>>
>> bidict/
>> ??? __init__.py
>> ??? _bidict.py
>> ??? _common.py
>> ??? _frozen.py
>> ??? _loose.py
>> ??? _named.py
>> ??? _ordered.py
>> ??? compat.py
>> ??? util.py
>
>
> The purpose of packages isn't enable Java-style "one class per file" coding,
> especially since *everything* in the package except the top level "bidict"
> module itself is private. bidict.compat and bidict.util aren't flagged as
> private, but they should be, since there's nothing in either of them that
> the user of a bidict class should care about.

Agreed.


> (utils.py does export a couple of functions, but they should be in the main
> module, or possibly made into a method of BidirectionalMapping.)
>
> Your package is currently under 500 lines. As it stands now, you could
> easily flatten it to a single module:
>
> bidict.py

Yup... well, actually you could just stick it in __init__.py.

> Unless you are getting some concrete benefit from a package structure, you
> shouldn't use a package just for the sake of it. Even if the code doubles
> in size, to 1000 lines, that's still *far* below the point at which I
> believe a single module becomes unwieldy just from size. At nearly 6500
> lines, the decimal.py module is, in my opinion, *almost* at the point where
> just size alone suggests splitting the file into submodules. Your module is
> nowhere near that point.

Well, there should be one more module:

   test.py

So in total, two files

bidict/
|-- __init__.py
|-- test.py

will do the trick.  Oh, and you want a README, LICENSE, a doc file.  And 
that should do it.  :)

--
~Ethan~


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Apr  5 14:46:58 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 11:46:58 -0700
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
In-Reply-To: <5703F82A.7020603@mail.de>
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
 <5703185f$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <5703F82A.7020603@mail.de>
Message-ID: <57040822.200@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/05/2016 10:38 AM, Sven R. Kunze wrote:
> On 05.04.2016 03:43, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> The purpose of packages isn't enable Java-style "one class per file"
>> coding,
>> especially since *everything* in the package except the top level
>> "bidict"
>> module itself is private. bidict.compat and bidict.util aren't flagged as
>> private, but they should be, since there's nothing in either of them that
>> the user of a bidict class should care about.
>>
>> (utils.py does export a couple of functions, but they should be in the
>> main
>> module, or possibly made into a method of BidirectionalMapping.)
>>
>> Your package is currently under 500 lines. As it stands now, you could
>> easily flatten it to a single module:
>>
>> bidict.py
>
> I don't recommend this.
>
> The line is blurry but 500 is definitely too much. Those will simply not
> fit on a 1 or 2 generous single screens anymore (which basically is our
> guideline). The intention here is to always have a bit more of a full
> screen of code (no wasted pixels) while benefiting from switching to
> another file (also seeing a full page of other code).

I do.  I have modules ranging from 1300+, 1800+, and nearly 10,000 
lines.  The only one I'm considering refactoring is the 10,000 line one; 
the others are just fine and would only suffer from being split up.

Possibly a good rule of thumb:  If a module is useful on its own (a 
bunch of utilities, or a bunch of data types, or a specific class with 
lots of utilities just for that class) then it's okay by itself; 
otherwise, combine it with the module it's used in.

--
~Ethan~


From bc at freeuk.com  Tue Apr  5 14:47:00 2016
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 19:47:00 +0100
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <N4TMy.410004$fz.288710@fx37.am4>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <dfada2fa-39b9-4d89-a47c-c4e0742be9e0@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPM-O+z_qHgEK5NFNwNijt2Nj6vp17kCPNChzZ_hdvDaosgi_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.64.1459857970.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <N4TMy.410004$fz.288710@fx37.am4>
Message-ID: <ne1114$fim$1@dont-email.me>

On 05/04/2016 19:02, alister wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Apr 2016 08:06:02 -0400, Joel Goldstick wrote:

>>>> REM BBC Basic FOR c = 1 TO 15 : COLOUR c
>>>>    PRINT "Color ";c
>>>> NEXT c
>>>>
>>>> REM BBC Basic c = 0 FOR x = 80 TO 2000 STEP 96
>>>>    GCOL c: CIRCLE FILL x,500,50 : c = c + 1
>>>> NEXT x
>>>
>>> If you tell us some more of what color, gcol etc do someone will likely
>>> show you Though in all fairness I dont expect it to be as pithy as the
>>> BASIC --
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>> The color stuff has to do with DOS based 16 color displays I think.
>> Or maybe it worked with other 16 color displays of the time
>
> No
> If that code is BBC basic then it would print the word Colour followed by
> the numbers 1 - 15
>
> For x in range (1,16):
> 	print "Colour %s"%x
>

You forgot the COLOUR statement. Presumably each line is in a different 
text colour.

-- 
Bartc


From srkunze at mail.de  Tue Apr  5 14:49:45 2016
From: srkunze at mail.de (Sven R. Kunze)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 20:49:45 +0200
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrZjXxyi-NpuQYdantWbrGM=sHyJsUnBXg4TamJxTJUnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
 <5703185f$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <5703F82A.7020603@mail.de>
 <CAPTjJmrZjXxyi-NpuQYdantWbrGM=sHyJsUnBXg4TamJxTJUnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <570408C9.2020801@mail.de>

On 05.04.2016 19:59, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 3:38 AM, Sven R. Kunze <srkunze at mail.de> wrote:
>>> Your package is currently under 500 lines. As it stands now, you could
>>> easily flatten it to a single module:
>>>
>>> bidict.py
>>
>> I don't recommend this.
>>
>> The line is blurry but 500 is definitely too much. Those will simply not fit
>> on a 1 or 2 generous single screens anymore (which basically is our
>> guideline). The intention here is to always have a bit more of a full screen
>> of code (no wasted pixels) while benefiting from switching to another file
>> (also seeing a full page of other code).
> Clearly this is a matter of opinion. I have absolutely no problem with
> a 500-lne file. As soon as you force people to split things across
> files, you add a new level of indirection that causes new problems.

Guidelines. No forcing.

> I'd rather keep logically-related code together rather than splitting
> across arbitrary boundaries;

That's a good advice and from what I can see bidict adheres to that. ;)

> you can always search within a file for the bit you want.

If you work like in the 80's, maybe. Instead of scrolling, (un)setting 
jumppoints, or use splitview of the same file, it's just faster/easier 
to jump between separate files in todays IDEs if you need to jump 
between 4 places within 3000 lines of code.

> When you split a file into two, you duplicate the
> headers at the top (imports and stuff), so you'll split a 100-line
> file into two 60-line files or so. Do that to several levels in a big
> project and you end up with a lot more billable lines of code, but no
> actual improvement.

Who cares about the imports? As I said somewhere else in my response, 
it's hidden from sight if you use a modern IDE. We call that folding. ;)

Who bills lines of code? Interesting business model. ;)

> I guess that's worth doing - lovely billable hours
> doing the refactoring,

Refactoring is not just splitting files if that concept is new to you.

Refactoring it not an end to itself. It serves a purpose.

> more billable hours later on when you have to
> read past the migration in source control ("where did this line come
> from" gets two answers all the time), and more billable hours dealing
> with circular imports when two fragments start referring to each
> other. Sounds like a plan.

It appears to me as if you like messy code then. ;)

Best,
Sven


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Tue Apr  5 14:50:59 2016
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 18:50:59 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Untrusted code execution
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnng82eo.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>

On 2016-04-05, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 3:26 AM, Jon Ribbens
><jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> wrote:
>> The received wisdom is that restricted code execution in Python is
>> an insolubly hard problem, but it looks a bit like my 7-line example
>> above disproves this theory, provided you choose carefully what you
>> provide in your restricted __builtins__ - but people who knows more
>> than me about Python seem to have thought about this problem for
>> longer than I have and come up with the opposite conclusion so I'm
>> curious what I'm missing.
>
> No, it doesn't disprove anything. All you've shown is "here's a piece
> of code that hasn't yet been compromised". :)

Yes, obviously. I wasn't asking for pedantry.

> Your code is a *lot* safer for using 'eval' rather than 'exec'.
> Otherwise, you'd be easily exploited using exceptions, which carry a
> ton of info.

... but all in attributes that don't start with "_", as far as I can see.

I think a very similar approach would work with 'exec' too, just you
would obviously have to disallow ast.Import and ast.ImportFrom.

> But even so, I would not bet money (much less the security of my
> systems) on this being safe.

I wasn't planning on betting any money ;-)


From srkunze at mail.de  Tue Apr  5 15:09:16 2016
From: srkunze at mail.de (Sven R. Kunze)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 21:09:16 +0200
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
In-Reply-To: <570406B0.9020306@stoneleaf.us>
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
 <5703185f$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <570406B0.9020306@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <57040D5C.7050108@mail.de>

On 05.04.2016 20:40, Ethan Furman wrote:
>
>> (utils.py does export a couple of functions, but they should be in 
>> the main
>> module, or possibly made into a method of BidirectionalMapping.)
>>
>> Your package is currently under 500 lines. As it stands now, you could
>> easily flatten it to a single module:
>>
>> bidict.py
>
> Yup... well, actually you could just stick it in __init__.py.

Interesting. We did (and I started it) a similar thing for some packages 
which then grew unbearably in a single year.


Now, everybody in team agrees with: 'who idiot put this stuff in 
__ini__.py?' It was me who started it so I take it with a smile. But 
it's definitely a wart.

So, we have a new guideline since then: "empty __init__.py" if possible 
of course; you sometimes need to collect/do magic imports but that's a 
separate matter.


Best,
Sven


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Tue Apr  5 15:12:38 2016
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 20:12:38 +0100
Subject: Request to mailing list Python-list rejected
In-Reply-To: <CAHVvXxQfV__7=q5i82Fdx_gEnFSrn0pUT0u9onYaH0Fqku7Y6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.0.1459824544.26995.python-list@python.org>
 <CAHVvXxQfV__7=q5i82Fdx_gEnFSrn0pUT0u9onYaH0Fqku7Y6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57040E26.8090205@timgolden.me.uk>

On 05/04/2016 08:34, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
> On 5 Apr 2016 03:50, <python-list-owner at python.org> wrote:
>>
>> Your request to the Python-list mailing list
>>
>>      Posting of your message titled "Re: Plot/Graph"
>>
>> has been rejected by the list moderator.  The moderator gave the
>> following reason for rejecting your request:
>>
>> "Your message was too big; please trim unnecessary content."
>>
>> Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator
>> at:
>>
>>      python-list-owner at python.org
>
> When did this start happening?
>
> The message in question includes a big block of code posted by someone else
> as context. My comment was that the code was incomplete so I felt it
> reasonable to include it as context.


It wasn't I who rejected it, but for accuracy's sake: the list does in 
fact have an upper size limit, beyond which posts are automatically held 
for moderation. My own policy is -- if the post is clearly pukka as I 
imagine yours would have been -- to let it through. Presumably in this 
case one of the other moderators was feeling rather more zealous and 
decided to bounce it. I'll let him speak for himself if he wishes.

TJG


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Tue Apr  5 15:13:07 2016
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 19:13:07 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Untrusted code execution
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALwzidnFMUwbWdXdkzj2XiJW6rV5rcDktp+Ks=rDBtd+Y=-HOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqQDkpcbvMSK5Bh2aMX246Bk9mS-9D6sf66GywBxOuqrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.87.1459880101.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnng83o7.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>

On 2016-04-05, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> You can also create objects of various types using literal/display
> syntax, and that might let you craft some weird construct that
> effectively access those attributes without actually having an
> attribute that starts with an underscore. (Think of "getattr(x,
> '\x5f_class__')", although obviously it'll take more work than that,
> since getattr itself isn't available.)

Indeed. Although I think it would be safe to add a "proxy" getattr()
to the namespace's __builtins__ that just checked if the first
character of "name" was "_" and if so raised an AttributeError or
somesuch, and otherwise passed straight through to the real getattr(),
e.g.:

    def proxy_getattr(obj, name, *args):
        if type(name) is str and not name.startswith("_"):
            return getattr(obj, name, *args)
        raise AttributeError("Not allowed to access private attributes")


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Tue Apr  5 15:14:00 2016
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 19:14:00 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Untrusted code execution
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnng82eo.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrnng83pt.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>

On 2016-04-05, Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> wrote:
> On 2016-04-05, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Your code is a *lot* safer for using 'eval' rather than 'exec'.
>> Otherwise, you'd be easily exploited using exceptions, which carry a
>> ton of info.
>
> ... but all in attributes that don't start with "_", as far as I can see.

Sorry, obviously I meant "that *do* start with '_'".


From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Tue Apr  5 15:38:41 2016
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 19:38:41 GMT
Subject: Promoting Python
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <dfada2fa-39b9-4d89-a47c-c4e0742be9e0@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPM-O+z_qHgEK5NFNwNijt2Nj6vp17kCPNChzZ_hdvDaosgi_A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.64.1459857970.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <N4TMy.410004$fz.288710@fx37.am4> <ne1114$fim$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <5vUMy.372427$vw.236860@fx33.am4>

On Tue, 05 Apr 2016 19:47:00 +0100, BartC wrote:

> On 05/04/2016 19:02, alister wrote:
>> On Tue, 05 Apr 2016 08:06:02 -0400, Joel Goldstick wrote:
> 
>>>>> REM BBC Basic FOR c = 1 TO 15 : COLOUR c
>>>>>    PRINT "Color ";c
>>>>> NEXT c
>>>>>
>>>>> REM BBC Basic c = 0 FOR x = 80 TO 2000 STEP 96
>>>>>    GCOL c: CIRCLE FILL x,500,50 : c = c + 1
>>>>> NEXT x
>>>>
>>>> If you tell us some more of what color, gcol etc do someone will
>>>> likely show you Though in all fairness I dont expect it to be as
>>>> pithy as the BASIC --
>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>
>>> The color stuff has to do with DOS based 16 color displays I think.
>>> Or maybe it worked with other 16 color displays of the time
>>
>> No If that code is BBC basic then it would print the word Colour
>> followed by the numbers 1 - 15
>>
>> For x in range (1,16):
>> 	print "Colour %s"%x
>>
>>
> You forgot the COLOUR statement. Presumably each line is in a different
> text colour.

indeed i did
I am no-longer in the old basic habit of putting as many statements on a 
line as possible.

Perhaps this is where the constant requests for a one line solution 
originate? 



-- 
Price's Advice:
	It's all a game -- play it to have fun.


From esj at harvee.org  Tue Apr  5 15:49:24 2016
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 15:49:24 -0400
Subject: Best practices for single file modules Inspired by: Best Practices
 for Internal Package Structure
Message-ID: <570416C4.703@harvee.org>

I was inspired by the thread on packaging practices discussion with 
bidict to ask a related question which is what are the best practices 
with packaging/releasing a single file Python module ?

Back story: I'm always creating little bits of useful code that I want 
to reuse (for example, recursive expansion template module). It seems 
like the overhead of setting up a module is a bit high for a single file 
module but maybe this modern nation I'm not aware of or template based 
techniques that would lower the setup overhead.


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 15:56:51 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 20:56:51 +0100
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
In-Reply-To: <570408C9.2020801@mail.de>
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
 <5703185f$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <5703F82A.7020603@mail.de>
 <CAPTjJmrZjXxyi-NpuQYdantWbrGM=sHyJsUnBXg4TamJxTJUnw@mail.gmail.com>
 <570408C9.2020801@mail.de>
Message-ID: <4A3037EA-DBD8-4B63-A431-84B9990D2262@gmail.com>



> On Apr 5, 2016, at 7:49 PM, Sven R. Kunze <srkunze at mail.de> wrote:
> 
>> On 05.04.2016 19:59, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 3:38 AM, Sven R. Kunze <srkunze at mail.de> wrote:
>>>> Your package is currently under 500 lines. As it stands now, you could
>>>> easily flatten it to a single module:
>>>> 
>>>> bidict.py
>>> 
>>> I don't recommend this.
>>> 
>>> The line is blurry but 500 is definitely too much. Those will simply not fit
>>> on a 1 or 2 generous single screens anymore (which basically is our
>>> guideline). The intention here is to always have a bit more of a full screen
>>> of code (no wasted pixels) while benefiting from switching to another file
>>> (also seeing a full page of other code).
>> Clearly this is a matter of opinion. I have absolutely no problem with
>> a 500-lne file. As soon as you force people to split things across
>> files, you add a new level of indirection that causes new problems.
> 
> Guidelines. No forcing.
> 
>> I'd rather keep logically-related code together rather than splitting
>> across arbitrary boundaries;
> 
> That's a good advice and from what I can see bidict adheres to that. ;)
> 
>> you can always search within a file for the bit you want.
> 
> If you work like in the 80's, maybe. Instead of scrolling, (un)setting jumppoints, or use splitview of the same file, it's just faster/easier to jump between separate files in todays IDEs if you need to jump between 4 places within 3000 lines of code.

When you made that suggestion earlier, I immediately guessed that you were using PyCharm. I agree that the decision to split into multiple files or keep everything in just a few files seems to be based on your development tools. I use IPython and SublimeText, so my personal setup is more suited to one or a few files.

>> When you split a file into two, you duplicate the
>> headers at the top (imports and stuff), so you'll split a 100-line
>> file into two 60-line files or so. Do that to several levels in a big
>> project and you end up with a lot more billable lines of code, but no
>> actual improvement.
> 
> Who cares about the imports? As I said somewhere else in my response, it's hidden from sight if you use a modern IDE. We call that folding. ;)
> 
> Who bills lines of code? Interesting business model. ;)
> 
>> I guess that's worth doing - lovely billable hours
>> doing the refactoring,
> 
> Refactoring is not just splitting files if that concept is new to you.
> 
> Refactoring it not an end to itself. It serves a purpose.
> 
>> more billable hours later on when you have to
>> read past the migration in source control ("where did this line come
>> from" gets two answers all the time), and more billable hours dealing
>> with circular imports when two fragments start referring to each
>> other. Sounds like a plan.
> 
> It appears to me as if you like messy code then. ;)
> 
> Best,
> Sven
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Apr  5 15:59:00 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 12:59:00 -0700
Subject: Request to mailing list Python-list rejected
In-Reply-To: <57040E26.8090205@timgolden.me.uk>
References: <mailman.0.1459824544.26995.python-list@python.org>
 <CAHVvXxQfV__7=q5i82Fdx_gEnFSrn0pUT0u9onYaH0Fqku7Y6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <57040E26.8090205@timgolden.me.uk>
Message-ID: <57041904.4000909@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/05/2016 12:12 PM, Tim Golden wrote:
> On 05/04/2016 08:34, Oscar Benjamin wrote:

>> When did this start happening?
>>
>> The message in question includes a big block of code posted by someone
>> else
>> as context. My comment was that the code was incomplete so I felt it
>> reasonable to include it as context.
>
> It wasn't I who rejected it, but for accuracy's sake: the list does in
> fact have an upper size limit, beyond which posts are automatically held
> for moderation. My own policy is -- if the post is clearly pukka as I
> imagine yours would have been -- to let it through. Presumably in this
> case one of the other moderators was feeling rather more zealous and
> decided to bounce it. I'll let him speak for himself if he wishes.

Twas I that did it.  I find it highly aggravating to scroll through 
pages of quoted whatever for a simple comment at the end.  If it's not a 
PEP, or obviously non-quoted anywhere-close-to-on-topic content, I bounce.

--
~Ethan~


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 16:01:07 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 06:01:07 +1000
Subject: Untrusted code execution
In-Reply-To: <slrnng82eo.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnng82eo.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqoTVAz-WvTJzPgWkKzW2VmON=ND6v9E2PeP7xFP1kjTA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 4:50 AM, Jon Ribbens
<jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> wrote:
> On 2016-04-05, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 3:26 AM, Jon Ribbens
>><jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> wrote:
>>> The received wisdom is that restricted code execution in Python is
>>> an insolubly hard problem, but it looks a bit like my 7-line example
>>> above disproves this theory, provided you choose carefully what you
>>> provide in your restricted __builtins__ - but people who knows more
>>> than me about Python seem to have thought about this problem for
>>> longer than I have and come up with the opposite conclusion so I'm
>>> curious what I'm missing.
>>
>> No, it doesn't disprove anything. All you've shown is "here's a piece
>> of code that hasn't yet been compromised". :)
>
> Yes, obviously. I wasn't asking for pedantry.

It's more than pedantry. There's a huge difference between "thing that
hasn't been proven yet" and "thing that has been disproved".

ChrisA


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Apr  5 16:02:31 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 13:02:31 -0700
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
In-Reply-To: <57040D5C.7050108@mail.de>
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
 <5703185f$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <570406B0.9020306@stoneleaf.us> <57040D5C.7050108@mail.de>
Message-ID: <570419D7.5040206@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/05/2016 12:09 PM, Sven R. Kunze wrote:
> On 05.04.2016 20:40, Ethan Furman wrote:
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:

>>> Your package is currently under 500 lines. As it stands now, you could
>>> easily flatten it to a single module:
>>>
>>> bidict.py
>>
>> Yup... well, actually you could just stick it in __init__.py.
>
> Interesting. We did (and I started it) a similar thing for some packages
> which then grew unbearably in a single year.
>
> Now, everybody in team agrees with: 'who idiot put this stuff in
> __ini__.py?' It was me who started it so I take it with a smile. But
> it's definitely a wart.
>
> So, we have a new guideline since then: "empty __init__.py" if possible
> of course; you sometimes need to collect/do magic imports but that's a
> separate matter.

For application level stuff, sure.  I mostly write various utilities 
where one __init__.py and one test.py fill the bill.  I see `bidict` as 
a utility-class item, though.

--
~Ethan~


From PointedEars at web.de  Tue Apr  5 16:05:47 2016
From: PointedEars at web.de (Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 22:05:47 +0200
Subject: Import graphics error
References: <CAO5nurPOyAzvZWE3GyPbCO3CjzpgCLjiRkmiXwPLh_1oL-du5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.81.1459873859.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3505617.3kaVk0DHfX@PointedEars.de>

Nicolae Morkov wrote:

> [?]
> *Following the instructions I copied The graphic modules by John Zelle in
> Python folder in Lib folder *
> **And when I installed graphic library the error was :* *
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File
> "C:/Users/Nicolae/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python35/pythonK/pr.py",
> line 1, in <module>
> from graphics import GraphicsWindow
> ImportError: cannot import name 'GraphicsWindow'

| >>> from email import ID10T
| Traceback (most recent call last):
|   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
| ImportError: cannot import name 'ID10T'

<http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Apr  5 16:06:33 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 13:06:33 -0700
Subject: Best practices for single file modules Inspired by: Best Practices
 for Internal Package Structure
In-Reply-To: <570416C4.703@harvee.org>
References: <570416C4.703@harvee.org>
Message-ID: <57041AC9.3090502@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/05/2016 12:49 PM, Eric S. Johansson wrote:

> I was inspired by the thread on packaging practices discussion with
> bidict to ask a related question which is what are the best practices
> with packaging/releasing a single file Python module ?
>
> Back story: I'm always creating little bits of useful code that I want
> to reuse (for example, recursive expansion template module). It seems
> like the overhead of setting up a module is a bit high for a single file
> module but maybe this modern nation I'm not aware of or template based
> techniques that would lower the setup overhead.

The problem I have found with single file PyPI packages is what to do 
with the related files?  README, LICENSE, doc, test, ... ?

I ended up with (for example): dbf.py, dbf_test.py, dbf.README, ..., and 
it was a mess.

So, even for single-purpose utilities I just make a package and stuff 
the main content into __init__.py, my tests in test.py, and other 
supporting files in that same folder.

So far it has worked well for me.

--
~Ethan~


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr  5 16:15:15 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 21:15:15 +0100
Subject: Install request
In-Reply-To: <CA+FnnTzfB81R_38RYeu8L2g1AntBaNRVY8S-ROdOAthSBZRR-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+FnnTzfB81R_38RYeu8L2g1AntBaNRVY8S-ROdOAthSBZRR-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ne16co$v1i$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 05/04/2016 16:56, Igor Korot wrote:
>   Hi, python community,
> Recently there was a huge number of e-mail stating that the python
> installer does not work.
>
> When asked about it, people reveal that they wee using Windows and
> they were getting
> errors about missing DLL.
>
> I know for a fact that in the InstallShield it is possible to detect
> the OS you are trying
> to install on.
>
> So, here is my request: if its not possible to include the DLL in
> question in the installer,
> can the installer check for the OS version and ask the user to go to
> Microsoft.com,
> download and install the library?
>
> It looks like people don't want to use their common sense and just
> wanted to waste
> everybody's time by asking what went wrong instead of just download
> the dll executable
> from MS site and install it.
>
> Can something like this be done to eliminate those questions in the
> future and let people
> concentrate on the real python issues?
>
> Thank you.
>

I fail to see why anybody in the Python community should put themselves 
out to answer a question for someone who is too bone idle to do any 
research in the first place, especially when the question has been asked 
and answered repeatadly over a period of months.  For those who 
disagree, they can provide the patches, or the edits to a wiki as 
appropriate.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From walters.justin01 at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 16:20:51 2016
From: walters.justin01 at gmail.com (justin walters)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 13:20:51 -0700
Subject: mod_wsgi not compatible with Wamp 2.4 and python 3.4.3
In-Reply-To: <CA+9XG=NgpoAEQWeS0MT_XDa2Bz0-vrM=SUYsCT5aMg5j9iwoZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+9XG=NgpoAEQWeS0MT_XDa2Bz0-vrM=SUYsCT5aMg5j9iwoZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO1D73GXEYdwfmDCBpn_V-ALkFza9zgCi9nbHKAakz_Nh-Hn3w@mail.gmail.com>

On Apr 5, 2016 12:51 PM, "asimkon ." <asimkostas at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am using Apache to develop Python Web applications via Django. As i am
> new to python web development, i am having problem to find the right
> version for mod_wsgi.so (compiled version for Apache 2.4.4 - WampServer
2.4
> - and python 3.4.3 latest version from ActivePython on Windows x86) and i
> get a 500 internal server error "The server encountered an internal error
> or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request".
>
> when i try to run the following script:
>
> def application(environment, start_response):
> status = '200 OK'
> response_headers = [('Content-type', 'text/html')]
> start_response(status, response_headers)
> page = """
> <html>
> <body>
> <h1>Hello world!</h1>
> <p>This is being served using mod_wsgi</p>
> </body>
> </html>
> """
> return page
>
> I just found the following link
>
http://grapevine.dyndns-ip.com/download/folder.asp?eid=33&folder=%2Fdownload%2Fapache%2Fmod_wsgi-windows-4.4.6%2Fmod_wsgi-windows-4.4.6%2Fapache24-win32-vc10%2Fmodules%2F
> but unfortunately i have got incompatibility problems with the compiled
> files mentioned. Any kind of help would be convenient to me.
>
> I am looking for the compiled (.so file) version, as it will save me from
a
> lot of trouble.
>
> Regards
> Kostas  Asimakopoulos
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Have you tried using apache as a proxy server to forward requests to a
dedicated wsgi server such as gunicorn instead of using mod_wsgi? I find
it's a lot easier to set up.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr  5 16:23:21 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 21:23:21 +0100
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
In-Reply-To: <570408C9.2020801@mail.de>
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
 <5703185f$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <5703F82A.7020603@mail.de>
 <CAPTjJmrZjXxyi-NpuQYdantWbrGM=sHyJsUnBXg4TamJxTJUnw@mail.gmail.com>
 <570408C9.2020801@mail.de>
Message-ID: <ne16ru$784$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 05/04/2016 19:49, Sven R. Kunze wrote:
>
> It appears to me as if you like messy code then. ;)
>

The messy code is with the person who needlessly splits a single module 
of a few thousand lines into several modules just for the sake of it. 
If you want to play yo-yo, leaping from source file to source file, 
running the risk of circular imports, feel free, I won't lose any sleep 
over it, but give me one, clean file any day of the week.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From michael.selik at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 16:25:49 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 21:25:49 +0100
Subject: Import graphics error
In-Reply-To: <CAO5nurPUH0GoPje3ZpEPOTP0+AgjomQeDG1BL3pduUkeHYikbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO5nurM_6d+3Tz5-=uo1w_nVygFtuwatjejHvhfkUTD-DhvBoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO5nurPUH0GoPje3ZpEPOTP0+AgjomQeDG1BL3pduUkeHYikbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AE72FC6C-A5C1-4D19-BEE0-C0768CD94AB0@gmail.com>



> On Apr 5, 2016, at 5:17 PM, Nicolae Morkov <morkovnicolae at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I copied the code from Python from everyone page 67.....
> Following the instructions The graphic modules by John Zelle I copied  into
> the python lacation ,to be easier to find the path .....

Please be more specific. What is the python location? What exactly did you copy? How did you copy? What is the exact path where Python is installed, where these graphics modules are, and where the code is that you're working on?

> On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 11:19 AM, Nicolae Morkov <morkovnicolae at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> # This program creates a graphics window with a rectangle. It provides the
>> 3 # template used with all of the graphical programs used in the book.
>> 4 #
>> 5
>> 6 from graphics import GraphicsWindow
>> 7
>> 8 # Create the window and access the canvas.
>> 9  win = GraphicsWindow()
>> 10 canvas = win.canvas()
>> 11
>> 12 # Draw on the canvas.
>> 13 canvas.drawRect(5, 10, 20, 30)
>> 14
>> 15 # Wait for the user to close the window.
>> 16 win.wait()
>> 
>> 
>> *This is the error I get*
>> 
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File
>> "C:/Users/Nicolae/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python35/pythonK/pr.py",
>> line 1, in <module>
>>    from graphics import GraphicsWindow
>> ImportError: No module named 'graphics'
>> 
>> 
>> *And when I installed graphic library the error was :*
>> 
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File
>> "C:/Users/Nicolae/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python35/pythonK/pr.py",
>> line 1, in <module>
>>    from graphics import GraphicsWindow
>> ImportError: cannot import name 'GraphicsWindow'
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 16:33:24 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 21:33:24 +0100
Subject: ANN: intervalset Was: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <1459864776.466447.569580657.1414C457@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
 <1459523394.2611014.565840994.593DD99A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <570213CB.8040101@shopzeus.com>
 <1459782597.3444051.568344234.048046C6@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAHVvXxRRmJKHq-H8xotY9yF+pzG+7NOSMhOwTbL4qF-N4XjTfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459784663.3451967.568464658.50905009@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57037318.6050703@shopzeus.com>
 <1459864776.466447.569580657.1414C457@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <4FFA6787-809A-4BE2-8E43-39FBCE9C20A2@gmail.com>

It seems coding a generic interval and intervalset will bring a variety of difficult design choices. If I were you, I'd forget making it generic and build one specifically for the application you have in mind. That way you can ignore most of these feature discussions.

> On Apr 5, 2016, at 2:59 PM, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Apr 5, 2016, at 04:11, Nagy L?szl? Zsolt wrote:
>> But there is still need to check begin <= end. But maybe
>> you are right: if we suppose that nobody will try to use an interval
>> where end < begin then we can use plain tuples. But then the user *must*
>> make sure not to use invalid intervals.
> 
> The IntervalSet constructor and add method could switch them or throw an
> exception. But I'm not saying to use plain tuples. I'm saying to make
> Interval a "dumb" object, which *only* supports being constructed and
> added to a set, rather than putting a bunch of set-like operations on
> it.
> 
>> It is blurred by design. There is an interpretation where an interval
>> between [0..4] equals to a set of intervals ([0..2],[2..4]).
> 
> No, because 2.5 is in one and not the other. Floats are orderable with
> ints, so it's not reasonable to say "this is an int intervalset so no
> floats are contained in it". But that's another discussion.
> 
> But why would you want to use [0..4] directly instead of ([0..4])?
> 
>> Actually,
>> you can ask: "is an element within the interval?" The same question can
>> be asked for an Interval set. So the same type of value can be
>> "contained" within an interval and also witin an interval set. In the
>> current implementation, if you try to create a set with these two
>> intervals [0..2] and [2..4], then they are unified into a single element
>> on purpose: to make sure that there is only a single official
>> representation of it. E.g. ([0..2],[2..4]) is not a valid set, only
>> ([0..4]) is.
> 
> Uh, exactly. I don't understand why any of this makes it useful to have
> these operations on interval objects.
> 
>> By definition, a set is given with its elements, e.g. for any possible
>> item, you can tell if it is part of the set or not. So if
>> ([0..2],[2..4]) and ([0..4]) have exactly the same elements (by the
>> given definition), then they are not just equal: they are the same set.
>> The same reasoning is used in math when they say: there cannot be
>> multiple empty sets. There exists a single empty set. It happens that we
>> can only represent a finite number of elements in any set on a computer.
>> I wanted to have a well defined single way to represent any given set.
> 
> What? *I* am the one who wants a well defined single way to represent a
> given set. *You* are the one who wants to make [0..4] a set-like object
> that is different from ([0..4]) and doesn't quite support the same
> operations.
> 
>> I can also see your point. From another point a view, a set and a set of
>> sets is not the same type.
> 
> I'm saying an interval is _not_ a set. It is merely part of the way of
> describing the set. Just like the word "of" isn't a set just because
> "the set of all even numbers" is a set.
> 
> You could consider "the set of [dates|numbers|etc] in a single interval"
> to be a type of set, certainly. But there's no reason to have such a set
> _not_ fully support set operations even when those operations will not
> return a set of a single interval.
> 
>> However, I do not share this view, because if
>> we start thinking this way, then operations like the one below does not
>> make sense:
>> 
>> [0..4]) - (1..2] == [0..1] | [2..4]
>> 
>> If you make a strinct distinction between intervals and interval sets,
>> then the above equation does not make sense, because you cannot remove
>> an element from a set that is not an "element" of it. The above equation
>> makes sense only if the "intervalset" is a general representation of
>> possible values, and the "interval" type is a special representation of
>> (the same) possible values.
> 
> I don't understand why you want to let the user use the "interval" type
> for purposes other than adding to an intervalset in the first place
> Nothing you've posted has explained this.
> 
>> It is clear when you ask the question: "is 3
>> in the interval?" and you can also ask "is 3 in the interval set?"
>> - so
>> the value of the same type can be contained in the interval and also in
>> the interval set. Maybe the naming is bad, and it should be named
>> "Intervals" instead of IntervalSet?
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 16:35:54 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 21:35:54 +0100
Subject: python script for .dat file
In-Reply-To: <0e52fb26-0a0d-4b40-ba98-de5945dcc66e@googlegroups.com>
References: <1bb30dbb-14fc-4393-92b1-341d5e985d0f@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPM-O+zR0tY+h+p6JNCZCNZUxB838Wv9n6nN7h3O+G4XqbkG1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.75.1459870210.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <169b093d-7d7a-4a9c-b343-d6b604c5c6e0@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxSUuac1bWnBk5B4BVr+E-1dxhUN8Z=z+0cXcqZNyuCvyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.78.1459872460.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <0e52fb26-0a0d-4b40-ba98-de5945dcc66e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <AE3DF1AC-3CEB-42CE-A39E-F4797759D566@gmail.com>

What code have you written so far?

> On Apr 5, 2016, at 5:27 PM, Muhammad Ali <muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 9:07:54 AM UTC-7, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
>>> On 5 April 2016 at 16:44, Muhammad Ali <muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 8:30:27 AM UTC-7, Joel Goldstick wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Muhammad Ali
>>>> <muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Could any body tell me a general python script to generate .dat file after the extraction of data from more than 2 files, say file A and file B?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Or could any body tell me the python commands to generate .dat file after the extraction of data from two or more than two files?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have to modify some python code.
>>>> 
>>>> What exactly is a .dat file? and how is it different from any other
>>>> file? Is it binary or text data?
>>> 
>>> It is text data.
>> 
>> You haven't provided enough information for someone to answer your
>> question. This is a text mailing list so if a .dat file is text then
>> you can paste here an example of what it would look like. What would
>> be in your input files and what would be in your output files? What
>> code have you already written?
>> 
>> If the file is large then don't paste its entire content here. Just
>> show an example of what the data would look like if it were a smaller
>> file (maybe just show the first few lines of the file).
>> 
>> Probably what you want to do is easily achieved with basic Python
>> commands so I would recommend to have a look at a tutorial. There are
>> some listed here:
>> https://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/NonProgrammers
>> 
>> Also the tutor mailing list is probably more appropriate for this
>> level of question:
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>> 
>> --
>> Oscar
> 
> Input and outout files are text files. e.g: 
> #KptCoord #E-E_Fermi #delta_N
>  0.0000  -22.0000   0.000E+00
>  0.0707  -22.0000   0.000E+00
>  0.1415  -22.0000   0.000E+00
>  0.2122  -22.0000   0.000E+00
>  0.2830  -22.0000   0.000E+00
>  0.3537  -22.0000   0.000E+00
>  0.4245  -22.0000   0.000E+00
>  0.4952  -22.0000   0.000E+00
>  0.5660  -22.0000   0.000E+00
>  0.6367  -22.0000   0.000E+00
>  0.7075  -22.0000   0.000E+00
>  0.7782  -22.0000   0.000E+00
>  0.8490  -22.0000   0.000E+00
>  0.9197  -22.0000   0.000E+00
>  0.9905  -22.0000   0.000E+00
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Apr  5 16:39:59 2016
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 13:39:59 -0700
Subject: Untrusted code execution
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <87r3ejpz6o.fsf@nightsong.com>

Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> writes:
>>             isinstance(node, ast.Attribute) and node.attr.startswith("_")):
>>                 raise ValueError("Access to private values is not allowed.")
>>     namespace = {"__builtins__": {"int": int, "str": str, "len": len}}

> Nobody has any thoughts on this at all?

What happens with foo.get("5F5F70726976617465".decode("hex")) ?
That string decodes to "__private".

The Bastion module was removed some time ago because every attempt to do
something like this has failed...


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Apr  5 16:45:00 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 16:45:00 -0400
Subject: Label behavior's difference between tkinter and ttk
In-Reply-To: <ne0kgh$i0o$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <570361fd$0$648$426a74cc@news.free.fr> <ne0kgh$i0o$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <ne184j$rh1$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/5/2016 11:10 AM, Mark Lawrence via Python-list wrote:
> On 05/04/2016 07:57, ast wrote:

[snip code]
>> # Enter these commands by hand, in a shell
>>
>> img.config(foreground='red')
>> img.config(foreground='lime')
>> img.config(foreground='yellow')
>>
>>
>> It looks like a ttk bug, isn't it ?
>> I am using python 3.5.1
>>
>> I tried a root.update_idletasks() to refresh the graphic
>> but it changed nothings.
>>
>
> I'm no tkinter expert, but I do know that there is a huge difference
> between the way that tk and ttk widgets are configured.

In this case, it is the embedded tk bitmap image widget that is being 
reconfigured.  The issue is how that propagates the the diplay of the label.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr  5 16:47:43 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 21:47:43 +0100
Subject: python script for .dat file
In-Reply-To: <AE3DF1AC-3CEB-42CE-A39E-F4797759D566@gmail.com>
References: <1bb30dbb-14fc-4393-92b1-341d5e985d0f@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPM-O+zR0tY+h+p6JNCZCNZUxB838Wv9n6nN7h3O+G4XqbkG1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.75.1459870210.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <169b093d-7d7a-4a9c-b343-d6b604c5c6e0@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxSUuac1bWnBk5B4BVr+E-1dxhUN8Z=z+0cXcqZNyuCvyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.78.1459872460.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <0e52fb26-0a0d-4b40-ba98-de5945dcc66e@googlegroups.com>
 <AE3DF1AC-3CEB-42CE-A39E-F4797759D566@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ne189k$sch$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 05/04/2016 21:35, Michael Selik wrote:
> What code have you written so far?
>

Would you please not top post on this list, it drives me nuts!!!

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From mauricioliveiraguarda at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 16:54:35 2016
From: mauricioliveiraguarda at gmail.com (Maurice)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 13:54:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: good way to avoid recomputations?
Message-ID: <8725470c-9554-4281-9427-43bd37f42f87@googlegroups.com>

Hi. I working on a project where I have 5 scripts loading the same file at the very beginning so I would like to know the best way I can get this file without having to compute it 5 times.

I also perform, in all the scripts, a list comprehension using this file that takes 30s to run. Would be cool to always have access to it as well.

Cheers


From python at lucidity.plus.com  Tue Apr  5 17:02:42 2016
From: python at lucidity.plus.com (Erik)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 22:02:42 +0100
Subject: good way to avoid recomputations?
In-Reply-To: <8725470c-9554-4281-9427-43bd37f42f87@googlegroups.com>
References: <8725470c-9554-4281-9427-43bd37f42f87@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <570427F2.9010000@lucidity.plus.com>

Hi Maurice,

On 05/04/16 21:54, Maurice wrote:
> Hi. I working on a project where I have 5 scripts loading the same
> file at the very beginning so I would like to know the best way I can
> get this file without having to compute it 5 times.
>
> I also perform, in all the scripts, a list comprehension using this
> file that takes 30s to run. Would be cool to always have access to it
> as well.

It sort of depends on what data you are extracting from the file (so 
expect people to ask for more information), but my initial gut reaction 
is to suggest writing a class that ingests the file.

Create an object of that class, giving it the filename to ingest, and 
then use it in each of the 5 places.

Or .... are you saying that each script is entirely separate? If so, 
then one approach might be to write a single script that "loads" the 
file and runs the comprehension and then "pickle" (look it up in the 
docs) the resulting structure. Your other scripts can then load the 
pickled version of the pre-computed comprehension much faster.

E.


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Tue Apr  5 17:13:36 2016
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 21:13:36 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Untrusted code execution
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <87r3ejpz6o.fsf@nightsong.com>
Message-ID: <slrnng8aq5.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>

On 2016-04-05, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> writes:
>>>             isinstance(node, ast.Attribute) and node.attr.startswith("_")):
>>>                 raise ValueError("Access to private values is not allowed.")
>>>     namespace = {"__builtins__": {"int": int, "str": str, "len": len}}
>
>> Nobody has any thoughts on this at all?
>
> What happens with foo.get("5F5F70726976617465".decode("hex")) ?
> That string decodes to "__private".

Yes, and? My code wasn't trying to prevent anyone building a string
object starting with an underline, merely to prevent anyone accessing
identifiers and attributes that start with an underline. The namespace
I was suggesting didn't provide access to any objects which have a
'get()' method which would access attributes.

> The Bastion module was removed some time ago because every attempt
> to do something like this has failed...

Bastion was removed because rexec was removed. rexec was very
ambitious - it was trying to allow completely arbitrary Python code
to run in a restricted namespace. That's basically impossible since
Python 2.2.

My method is doing something different - it's inspecting the code
before it's run, to prevent the methods by which people would easily
escape rexec's environment.

Originally, rexec existed and was thought to be 'safe'. Then the
new-style classes were added in Python 2.2, which made rexec unsafe,
so it was disabled because there was no easy way to fix it. Then
in Python 2.5 the new AST parser was added, which I think perhaps
does provide a way to fix rexec (or at least something rexec-like),
but nobody was clamoring for rexec to be reinstated so nobody looked
into what ast could do for rexec.

... unless I'm missing something obvious (or subtle!)


From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 17:23:45 2016
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 17:23:45 -0400
Subject: python script for .dat file
In-Reply-To: <ne189k$sch$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <1bb30dbb-14fc-4393-92b1-341d5e985d0f@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPM-O+zR0tY+h+p6JNCZCNZUxB838Wv9n6nN7h3O+G4XqbkG1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.75.1459870210.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <169b093d-7d7a-4a9c-b343-d6b604c5c6e0@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxSUuac1bWnBk5B4BVr+E-1dxhUN8Z=z+0cXcqZNyuCvyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.78.1459872460.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <0e52fb26-0a0d-4b40-ba98-de5945dcc66e@googlegroups.com>
 <AE3DF1AC-3CEB-42CE-A39E-F4797759D566@gmail.com>
 <ne189k$sch$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+wC0Gu+VyLSvDF+bCAyN_mZq9Gj+Z9w0Zdjtj8WUqV6ng@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 4:47 PM, Mark Lawrence via Python-list
<python-list at python.org> wrote:
> On 05/04/2016 21:35, Michael Selik wrote:
>>
>> What code have you written so far?
>>
>
> Would you please not top post on this list, it drives me nuts!!!
>
>
A short drive? ;)

-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Apr  5 17:27:34 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 17:27:34 -0400
Subject: Label behavior's difference between tkinter and ttk
In-Reply-To: <570361fd$0$648$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <570361fd$0$648$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <ne1akd$43o$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/5/2016 2:57 AM, ast wrote:
> Hello
>
> I currently migrate a GUI from tkinter to ttk and I found a problem
>
> Here is a piece of code, with comments which explain what is wrong.

Here is a complete program that eliminates manual entry and uses 
.mainloop and .after for the delays.

import tkinter as tk
import tkinter.ttk as ttk

root = tk.Tk()

BITMAP0 = """
#define zero_width 24
#define zero_height 32
static char zero_bits[] = {
0x00,0x00,0x00, 0x00,0x00,0x00, 0xf0,0x3c,0x0f, 0xf0,0x3c,0x0f,
0xf0,0x3c,0x0f, 0xf0,0x3c,0x0f, 0x00,0x00,0x00, 0x00,0x00,0x00,
0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f,
0x00,0x00,0x00, 0x00,0x00,0x00, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f,
0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0x00,0x00,0x00, 0x00,0x00,0x00,
0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f, 0xf0,0x00,0x0f,
0x00,0x00,0x00, 0x00,0x00,0x00, 0xf0,0x3c,0x0f, 0xf0,0x3c,0x0f,
0xf0,0x3c,0x0f, 0xf0,0x3c,0x0f, 0x00,0x00,0x00, 0x00,0x00,0x00
};
"""

img = tk.BitmapImage(data=BITMAP0, foreground='white', background='black')
label_tk = tk.Label(root, image=img)
label_ttk = ttk.Label(root, image=img)
label_tk.pack()
label_ttk.pack()
colors = ('red', 'lime', 'yellow')
def newcolor(n):
     img.config(foreground=colors[n])
     n += 1
     if n < len(colors):
         root.after(1000, newcolor, n)
root.after(1000, newcolor, 0)
root.mainloop()

> # The graphic is not refreshed after entering following commands
> # when Label comes from ttk. You have to fly over the label with # the
> mouse to get the right color.

The reconfiguration is now automatic, but the result is the same.  The 
tk label image changes, the ttk label image does not without mousing 
over the label (making it 'active')

> It looks like a ttk bug, isn't it ?

Perhaps.  If we do not get an answer, I might post a Stackoverflow 
question.  Then the tracker.

The difference between tk and ttk Label image options is that the latter 
can have multiple images for different states.  But the single option 
should be used in all states.

A general difference for ttk is the state vector.  Mouse over changes 
the state to active, so for Label, ttk looks to see if there is an image 
for the active state

> I am using python 3.5.1

Ditto, on Windows.

> I tried a root.update_idletasks() to refresh the graphic
> but it changed nothings.

Ditto for root.update().  Both are incorporated in .mainloop().

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From gandalf at shopzeus.com  Tue Apr  5 17:37:05 2016
From: gandalf at shopzeus.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Nagy_L=c3=a1szl=c3=b3_Zsolt?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 23:37:05 +0200
Subject: ANN: intervalset Was: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <1459864776.466447.569580657.1414C457@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
 <1459523394.2611014.565840994.593DD99A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <570213CB.8040101@shopzeus.com>
 <1459782597.3444051.568344234.048046C6@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAHVvXxRRmJKHq-H8xotY9yF+pzG+7NOSMhOwTbL4qF-N4XjTfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459784663.3451967.568464658.50905009@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57037318.6050703@shopzeus.com>
 <1459864776.466447.569580657.1414C457@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <57043001.5060802@shopzeus.com>


>> It is blurred by design. There is an interpretation where an interval
>> between [0..4] equals to a set of intervals ([0..2],[2..4]).
> No, because 2.5 is in one and not the other. 
My notation was: 0..4 for any number between 0 and 4. And 2..4 for any
number between 2 and 4. So yes, 2.5 is in both of them.

> Floats are orderable with
> ints, so it's not reasonable to say "this is an int intervalset so no
> floats are contained in it". But that's another discussion.
I did not say such thing.
>
> But why would you want to use [0..4] directly instead of ([0..4])?
I did not say that I want to use it. I just said that ([0..2], [2..4])
and ([0..4]) contains exactly the same values, and I wanted to have a
single well defined representation.
>> Actually,
>> you can ask: "is an element within the interval?" The same question can
>> be asked for an Interval set. So the same type of value can be
>> "contained" within an interval and also witin an interval set. In the
>> current implementation, if you try to create a set with these two
>> intervals [0..2] and [2..4], then they are unified into a single element
>> on purpose: to make sure that there is only a single official
>> representation of it. E.g. ([0..2],[2..4]) is not a valid set, only
>> ([0..4]) is.
> Uh, exactly. I don't understand why any of this makes it useful to have
> these operations on interval objects.
It doesn't make it a problem. :-)
>
>> By definition, a set is given with its elements, e.g. for any possible
>> item, you can tell if it is part of the set or not. So if
>> ([0..2],[2..4]) and ([0..4]) have exactly the same elements (by the
>> given definition), then they are not just equal: they are the same set.
>> The same reasoning is used in math when they say: there cannot be
>> multiple empty sets. There exists a single empty set. It happens that we
>> can only represent a finite number of elements in any set on a computer.
>> I wanted to have a well defined single way to represent any given set.
> What? *I* am the one who wants a well defined single way to represent a
> given set. *You* are the one who wants to make [0..4] a set-like object
> that is different from ([0..4]) and doesn't quite support the same
> operations.
Are you suggesting, that iterating over a set should yield sets? Just
like iterating over a string yields single character strings? To make it
useful, we must be able to access the begin and end value of such
yielded sets.
>
>> I can also see your point. From another point a view, a set and a set of
>> sets is not the same type.
> I'm saying an interval is _not_ a set. It is merely part of the way of
> describing the set. Just like the word "of" isn't a set just because
> "the set of all even numbers" is a set.
>
> You could consider "the set of [dates|numbers|etc] in a single interval"
> to be a type of set, certainly. But there's no reason to have such a set
> _not_ fully support set operations even when those operations will not
> return a set of a single interval.
Okay, I hope I'm beginning to understand you. Analogy: the ord()
function has a string parameter but it must be of length 1. Simiarily,
when you iterate over a set, the yielded items will be sets with a
"begin" and "end" attribute, wich can only be used when the set has a
single element. Otherwise it should throw an error. The same way my
Interval type throws an error when you try to unify it with a non
overlapping interval. (???)
>
>> However, I do not share this view, because if
>> we start thinking this way, then operations like the one below does not
>> make sense:
>>
>> [0..4]) - (1..2] == [0..1] | [2..4]
>>
>> If you make a strinct distinction between intervals and interval sets,
>> then the above equation does not make sense, because you cannot remove
>> an element from a set that is not an "element" of it. The above equation
>> makes sense only if the "intervalset" is a general representation of
>> possible values, and the "interval" type is a special representation of
>> (the same) possible values.
> I don't understand why you want to let the user use the "interval" type
> for purposes other than adding to an intervalset in the first place
> Nothing you've posted has explained this.
For iteration over the set and accessing begin/end values, of course.
But then again: we could use simple tuples for that, right?

As far as I understand, you recommend to throw out the Interval type,
let the user use simple tuples in the IntervalSet constructor, and let
the iterator iterate over tuples. Right?





From gandalf at shopzeus.com  Tue Apr  5 17:45:23 2016
From: gandalf at shopzeus.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Nagy_L=c3=a1szl=c3=b3_Zsolt?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 23:45:23 +0200
Subject: ANN: intervalset Was: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <1459863844.461427.569565137.1D86E8B2@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
 <1459523394.2611014.565840994.593DD99A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <570213CB.8040101@shopzeus.com>
 <1459782597.3444051.568344234.048046C6@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <570350DA.7080401@shopzeus.com>
 <1459863844.461427.569565137.1D86E8B2@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <570431F3.20507@shopzeus.com>


>> How about creating two classes for this? One that supports zero sized
>> intervals, and another that doesn't?
> If you don't want zero sized intervals, just don't put any in it. You
> don't have a separate list type to support even integers vs one that
> supports all floats. What operations are made different in
> implementation by this restriction?
When you substract two sets, zero sized intervals may appear in the
result. It is not just a question of "putting or not putting them in".
Are zero sized intervals valid or not? In my particular application,
they are not. I think Michael was right: this cannot be generalized. It
is application dependent.






From muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 17:49:00 2016
From: muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com (Muhammad Ali)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 14:49:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python script for .dat file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.109.1459891428.32530.python-list@python.org>
References: <1bb30dbb-14fc-4393-92b1-341d5e985d0f@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPM-O+zR0tY+h+p6JNCZCNZUxB838Wv9n6nN7h3O+G4XqbkG1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.75.1459870210.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <169b093d-7d7a-4a9c-b343-d6b604c5c6e0@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxSUuac1bWnBk5B4BVr+E-1dxhUN8Z=z+0cXcqZNyuCvyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.78.1459872460.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <0e52fb26-0a0d-4b40-ba98-de5945dcc66e@googlegroups.com>
 <AE3DF1AC-3CEB-42CE-A39E-F4797759D566@gmail.com> <ne189k$sch$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAPM-O+wC0Gu+VyLSvDF+bCAyN_mZq9Gj+Z9w0Zdjtj8WUqV6ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.109.1459891428.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4cf957f0-5757-4882-b930-d57760e15336@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 2:24:02 PM UTC-7, Joel Goldstick wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 4:47 PM, Mark Lawrence via Python-list
> <python-list at python.org> wrote:
> > On 05/04/2016 21:35, Michael Selik wrote:
> >>
> >> What code have you written so far?
> >>
> >
> > Would you please not top post on this list, it drives me nuts!!!
> >
> >
> A short drive? ;)


> 
> -- 
> Joel Goldstick
> http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
> http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays


Would any one paste here some reference/sample python code for such extraction of data into text file?


From thudfoo at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 18:24:28 2016
From: thudfoo at gmail.com (Thud Foo)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 15:24:28 -0700
Subject: Request to mailing list Python-list rejected
In-Reply-To: <57041904.4000909@stoneleaf.us>
References: <mailman.0.1459824544.26995.python-list@python.org>
 <CAHVvXxQfV__7=q5i82Fdx_gEnFSrn0pUT0u9onYaH0Fqku7Y6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <57040E26.8090205@timgolden.me.uk> <57041904.4000909@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <CA+Y3coYfbtidWyx0y-pyTZi_U1xANdzsC3T5nwX9kOdmT6kvYw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 12:59 PM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:

> If it's not a PEP, or obviously non-quoted anywhere-close-to-on-topic
> content, I bounce.
>

?++good?



-- 
I have seen the future and I'm not in it!


From python at lucidity.plus.com  Tue Apr  5 18:47:05 2016
From: python at lucidity.plus.com (Erik)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 23:47:05 +0100
Subject: python script for .dat file
In-Reply-To: <4cf957f0-5757-4882-b930-d57760e15336@googlegroups.com>
References: <1bb30dbb-14fc-4393-92b1-341d5e985d0f@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPM-O+zR0tY+h+p6JNCZCNZUxB838Wv9n6nN7h3O+G4XqbkG1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.75.1459870210.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <169b093d-7d7a-4a9c-b343-d6b604c5c6e0@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxSUuac1bWnBk5B4BVr+E-1dxhUN8Z=z+0cXcqZNyuCvyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.78.1459872460.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <0e52fb26-0a0d-4b40-ba98-de5945dcc66e@googlegroups.com>
 <AE3DF1AC-3CEB-42CE-A39E-F4797759D566@gmail.com> <ne189k$sch$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAPM-O+wC0Gu+VyLSvDF+bCAyN_mZq9Gj+Z9w0Zdjtj8WUqV6ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.109.1459891428.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <4cf957f0-5757-4882-b930-d57760e15336@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <57044069.6020205@lucidity.plus.com>

Hi Muhammad,

On 05/04/16 22:49, Muhammad Ali wrote:
> Would any one paste here some reference/sample python code for such extraction of data into text file?

You haven't really explained what you want to achieve. What is the input 
format, what is the output format, what constraints are there on those 
two formats and the data within them and what transformation between the 
two are you trying to perform?

If you're on a Linux system, then:

$ cat A.dat B.dat C.dat > result.txt

... will do something that is close to what you have asked for so far. 
But I bet it's not what you want.

E.


From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr  5 19:03:53 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 09:03:53 +1000
Subject: Install request
References: <CA+FnnTzfB81R_38RYeu8L2g1AntBaNRVY8S-ROdOAthSBZRR-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHVvXxT33X7=-Tm6-W6kQofunrw90cxiVuJ1nQitQKPm0zyOsA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.79.1459873183.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <1228f650-7725-4604-a434-1300501ca96e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5704445b$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 02:52 am, Rustom Mody wrote:

> On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 9:49:58 PM UTC+5:30, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
>> Another possibility to improve this situation would be to make a page
>> on the wiki that actually explains the known problems (and fixes) for
>> 3.5 on Windows.
> 
> +10 on that one
> ie When a question becomes a FAQ just put it there


Would somebody who knows Windows actually do this and then post the link
here please?



-- 
Steven



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Apr  5 19:10:35 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 09:10:35 +1000
Subject: python script for .dat file
References: <1bb30dbb-14fc-4393-92b1-341d5e985d0f@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPM-O+zR0tY+h+p6JNCZCNZUxB838Wv9n6nN7h3O+G4XqbkG1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.75.1459870210.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <169b093d-7d7a-4a9c-b343-d6b604c5c6e0@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxSUuac1bWnBk5B4BVr+E-1dxhUN8Z=z+0cXcqZNyuCvyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.78.1459872460.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <0e52fb26-0a0d-4b40-ba98-de5945dcc66e@googlegroups.com>
 <AE3DF1AC-3CEB-42CE-A39E-F4797759D566@gmail.com>
 <ne189k$sch$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAPM-O+wC0Gu+VyLSvDF+bCAyN_mZq9Gj+Z9w0Zdjtj8WUqV6ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.109.1459891428.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <4cf957f0-5757-4882-b930-d57760e15336@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <85k2kb7itw.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Muhammad Ali <muhammadaliaskari at gmail.com> writes:

> Would any one paste here some reference/sample python code for such
> extraction of data into text file?

We're not going to write it for you.

Please show what code you have written so far; a small, self-contained
code example.

Explain what you expect that code to do, and what happens instead, and
how that is different from what you expect.

-- 
 \       ?I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them |
  `\    to do to their fellows, because it always coincides with their |
_o__)                      own desires.? ?Susan Brownell Anthony, 1896 |
Ben Finney



From ned at nedbatchelder.com  Tue Apr  5 19:28:55 2016
From: ned at nedbatchelder.com (Ned Batchelder)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 16:28:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Import graphics error
In-Reply-To: <3505617.3kaVk0DHfX@PointedEars.de>
References: <CAO5nurPOyAzvZWE3GyPbCO3CjzpgCLjiRkmiXwPLh_1oL-du5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.81.1459873859.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <3505617.3kaVk0DHfX@PointedEars.de>
Message-ID: <d390f471-af68-45d7-8fef-2f6f54e88e59@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 4:06:02 PM UTC-4, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> | >>> from email import ID10T
> | Traceback (most recent call last):
> |   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> | ImportError: cannot import name 'ID10T'

This is uncalled for.  You don't have to participate in this thread if you
don't want to.  This list is part of the Python community, and as such has
adopted the Python CoC: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

--Ned.


From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr  5 19:29:10 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 09:29:10 +1000
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
 <5703185f$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <5703F82A.7020603@mail.de>
 <mailman.83.1459877943.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57044a48$0$1603$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 03:38 am, Sven R. Kunze wrote:

> On 05.04.2016 03:43, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> The purpose of packages isn't enable Java-style "one class per file"
>> coding, especially since *everything* in the package except the top level
>> "bidict" module itself is private. bidict.compat and bidict.util aren't
>> flagged as private, but they should be, since there's nothing in either
>> of them that the user of a bidict class should care about.
>>
>> (utils.py does export a couple of functions, but they should be in the
>> main module, or possibly made into a method of BidirectionalMapping.)
>>
>> Your package is currently under 500 lines. As it stands now, you could
>> easily flatten it to a single module:
>>
>> bidict.py
> 
> I don't recommend this.
> 
> The line is blurry but 500 is definitely too much. Those will simply not
> fit on a 1 or 2 generous single screens anymore (which basically is our
> guideline).

Are you serious that you work under the restriction that the entire file
must fit on a single screen? Or at most two pages?

So basically you've moved the burden of scrolling up and down a single file
to find the code you want into searching through the file system to find
the code that you want. I don't see this as an advantage. 


> The intention here is to always have a bit more of a full 
> screen of code (no wasted pixels) while benefiting from switching to
> another file (also seeing a full page of other code).

I don't understand this benefit. How does exceeding 1-2 pages of code in a
file prevent you from opening a second file in a separate window?

As we speak, I have 28 text editor windows open. Not all of them are Python
code, but among those which are, I have:

216 lines
157 lines
906 lines
687 lines
173 lines
373 lines
402 lines
6409 lines
509 lines
97 lines
163 lines
393 lines
1725 lines
25 lines

I have no problem with working with multiple file despite exceeding the
limit, so I don't understand the purpose of this guideline.


-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr  5 19:38:03 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 09:38:03 +1000
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
 <5703185f$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <570406B0.9020306@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.88.1459881611.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57044c5c$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 04:40 am, Ethan Furman wrote:

> Well, there should be one more module:
> 
>    test.py
> 
> So in total, two files
> 
> bidict/
> |-- __init__.py
> |-- test.py


Your test code shouldn't necessarily be part of the package though. If I
already have a package, then I will usually stick the test code inside it,
but if I have a single module, I keep the test code in a separate file and
don't bother installing it. It's there in the source repo for those who
want it.


> will do the trick.  Oh, and you want a README, LICENSE, a doc file.  And
> that should do it.  :)

None of which ought to be part of the package itself. Well, perhaps the
README.



-- 
Steven



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 19:47:16 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 09:47:16 +1000
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
In-Reply-To: <57044a48$0$1603$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
 <5703185f$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <5703F82A.7020603@mail.de>
 <mailman.83.1459877943.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <57044a48$0$1603$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr17mv4FsdcvVZbVLa-FKWdVtL7mnJ4YZ5EsDAmsb7Ayg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 9:29 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> As we speak, I have 28 text editor windows open. Not all of them are Python
> code, but among those which are, I have:
> [chomp line number counts]

I was about to say "Wow, I don't have anything LIKE that many text
editor windows open"... but then went and counted. Uhh, 21 tabs up in
SciTE. So, yeah. Same ballpark. Like you, though, some of them aren't
code at all, and of those that are, there's several languages
represented; they range from a fully-functional 19 line file (not
stubby or anything) to a 2026-line module that actually does have some
"maybe X, Y, and Z could be broken out into a separate file" comments.
It's not excessive at the moment, but those few are stretching the
file's stated purpose (they're used primarily by other functions in
the file, though, and there's no better place for them).

Generally, I refactor code not because the files are getting "too
large" (for whatever definition of that term you like), but because
they're stretching the file's concept. Every file should have a
purpose; every piece of code in that file should ideally be supporting
exactly that purpose. This file over here handles the socket
connection to the server - it has functions to connect and disconnect,
to cope with servers that don't declare their encodings, to process
lines of text the server sends and figure out what to do with them, to
manage keep-alives, and so on. That file is all about the GUI - it
creates a window on screen, has event handlers, deals with fonts,
tracks user interaction so it can flag unread information, and has a
small function "connect/disconnect" which handles the UI side of
things and then calls a function from the connection module. One of
these files is 485 lines long; the other is 2026 lines long. Neither
of them needs to be refactored, because they both fit their goals.

ChrisA


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Apr  5 19:54:10 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 16:54:10 -0700
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
In-Reply-To: <57044c5c$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
 <5703185f$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <570406B0.9020306@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.88.1459881611.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <57044c5c$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <57045022.10005@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/05/2016 04:38 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 04:40 am, Ethan Furman wrote:
>
>> Well, there should be one more module:
>>
>>     test.py
>>
>> So in total, two files
>>
>> bidict/
>> |-- __init__.py
>> |-- test.py
>
>
> Your test code shouldn't necessarily be part of the package though. If I
> already have a package, then I will usually stick the test code inside it,
> but if I have a single module, I keep the test code in a separate file and
> don't bother installing it. It's there in the source repo for those who
> want it.
>
>
>> will do the trick.  Oh, and you want a README, LICENSE, a doc file.  And
>> that should do it.  :)
>
> None of which ought to be part of the package itself. Well, perhaps the
> README.

If it's not part of the package, how does it get installed?  And where? 
  (Honest question -- I find the packaging and distribution process 
confusing at best.)

--
~Ethan~



From plutito2016 at outlook.es  Tue Apr  5 20:35:46 2016
From: plutito2016 at outlook.es (majoxd hola)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:35:46 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?ola?=
Message-ID: <SNT406-EAS407388DDCADF292BCAC1AD0C19F0@phx.gbl>

me podr?an enviar el programa Python spyder para Windows?








Enviado desde Correo de Windows

From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr  5 21:09:52 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 11:09:52 +1000
Subject: python script for .dat file
References: <1bb30dbb-14fc-4393-92b1-341d5e985d0f@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPM-O+zR0tY+h+p6JNCZCNZUxB838Wv9n6nN7h3O+G4XqbkG1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.75.1459870210.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <169b093d-7d7a-4a9c-b343-d6b604c5c6e0@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxSUuac1bWnBk5B4BVr+E-1dxhUN8Z=z+0cXcqZNyuCvyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.78.1459872460.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <0e52fb26-0a0d-4b40-ba98-de5945dcc66e@googlegroups.com>
 <AE3DF1AC-3CEB-42CE-A39E-F4797759D566@gmail.com> <ne189k$sch$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAPM-O+wC0Gu+VyLSvDF+bCAyN_mZq9Gj+Z9w0Zdjtj8WUqV6ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.109.1459891428.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <4cf957f0-5757-4882-b930-d57760e15336@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <570461e0$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 07:49 am, Muhammad Ali wrote:

> Would any one paste here some reference/sample python code for such
> extraction of data into text file?

column1 = ['aa', 'bb', 'cc', 'dd', 'ee', 'ff']  # strings
column2 = [97, 105, 16, 4, 48, 274]  # ints
column3 = [12.345, 7.821, -4.034, 19.034, 23.0, 42.0]  # floats


# Open the file for writing. It will be closed 
# automatically at the end of the block.
with open("myfile.dat", "w") as f:
    for t in zip(column1, column2, column3):
        line = "%-9s %-9d %-9f\n" % t
        print(line, end='')
        f.write(line)



The function zip(...) combines one element from each argument into a tuple
of three values, like 

t = ('aa', 97, 12.345)
t = ('bb', 105, 7.821)

etc. The string formatting line:

line = "%-9s %-9d %-9f\n" % t


builds a new string. The code %s takes any object, including strings, and
inserts it into the new string. %d requires an int, and %f requires a
float. The \n at the end inserts a newline.

The -9 inside the formatting codes sets the width and justification:

%-9d

formats an integer in nine columns, justified on the left, while %9d
justifies to the right:


py> print("%-9d." % 23)
23       .
py> print("%9d." % 23)
       23.


Finally, the line is printed so you can see what it looks like, and written
to the file.


-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr  5 21:15:09 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 11:15:09 +1000
Subject: Import graphics error
References: <CAO5nurPOyAzvZWE3GyPbCO3CjzpgCLjiRkmiXwPLh_1oL-du5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.81.1459873859.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <3505617.3kaVk0DHfX@PointedEars.de>
Message-ID: <5704631e$0$1608$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 06:05 am, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:


> | >>> from email import ID10T
> | Traceback (most recent call last):
> |   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> | ImportError: cannot import name 'ID10T'
> 
> <http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>


Why oh why can't somebody write "How to write smart answers" for people
like "Pointed Ears"?




-- 
Steven



From kw at codebykevin.com  Tue Apr  5 21:21:17 2016
From: kw at codebykevin.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 21:21:17 -0400
Subject: Can't load Tkinter in embedded Python interpreter on Windows
In-Reply-To: <ne076l$7bt$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ne076l$7bt$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ne1o49$394$1@dont-email.me>

Adding

  PySys_SetArgv(argc, argv);

did the trick.

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com


From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr  5 21:43:50 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 11:43:50 +1000
Subject: Untrusted code execution
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 03:48 am, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 3:26 AM, Jon Ribbens
> <jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> wrote:
>> The received wisdom is that restricted code execution in Python is
>> an insolubly hard problem, but it looks a bit like my 7-line example
>> above disproves this theory, 

Jon's 7-line example doesn't come even close to providing restricted code
execution in Python. What it provides is a restricted subset of expression
evaluation, which is *much* easier. It's barely more powerful than the
ast.safe_eval function. That doesn't make it useless, but it does mean that
it's not solving the problem of "restricted code execution".


[Jon again]
>> provided you choose carefully what you 
>> provide in your restricted __builtins__ - but people who knows more
>> than me about Python seem to have thought about this problem for
>> longer than I have and come up with the opposite conclusion so I'm
>> curious what I'm missing.

You're missing that they're trying to allow enough Python functionality to
run useful scripts (not just evaluate a few arithmetic expressions), but
without allowing the script to break out of the restricted environment and
do things which aren't permitted.

For example, check out Tav's admirable work some years ago on trying to
allow Python code to read but not write files:

http://tav.espians.com/a-challenge-to-break-python-security.html

and followups to that post here:

http://tav.espians.com/paving-the-way-to-securing-the-python-interpreter.html
http://tav.espians.com/update-on-securing-the-python-interpreter.html


You should also read Guido's comments on capabilities:

http://neopythonic.blogspot.com.au/2009/03/capabilities-for-python.html

As Zooko says, Guido's "best argument is that reducing usability (in terms
of forbidding language features, especially module import) and reducing the
usefulness of extant library code" would make the resulting interpreter too
feeble to be useful.

Look at what you've done: you've restricted the entire world of Python down
to, effectively, a calculator and a few string methods. That's not to say
that a calculator and a few string methods won't be useful to someone, but
the next Javascript it is not...


[Chris]
> No, it doesn't disprove anything. All you've shown is "here's a piece
> of code that hasn't yet been compromised". :) What you're missing is a
> demonstrated exploit against your code. I can't provide one, but it's
> entirely possible that one will be found.
> 
> Your code is a *lot* safer for using 'eval' rather than 'exec'.
> Otherwise, you'd be easily exploited using exceptions, which carry a
> ton of info. But even so, I would not bet money (much less the
> security of my systems) on this being safe.

I think Jon is on the right approach here for restricting evaluation of
evaluation, which is a nicely constrained and small subset of Python. He's
not allowing unrestricted arbitrary code execution: he has a very
restricted (too restricted -- what the hell can you do with just int, str
and len?) whitelist of functions that are allowed, and the significant
restriction that dunder names aren't allowed.

This makes his function a tiny DSL for calculators and equivalent. I think
that, if it checks out, it would make a good addition to the standard
library.


All the obvious, and even not-so-obvious, attack tools are gone: eval, exec,
getattr, type, __import__. Because you're not supporting Python 2, the
various func.func_* attack surfaces are all gone. Since you can't access
dunders directly, and the obvious indirect methods like eval and getattr
aren't available, I don't think that any of the usual attacks will work.

Keep in mind that Jon's burden is easier: he doesn't need to worry about the
caller's environment, only his own environment. So long as the attacker
can't inject code into his "safe eval" code, the attacker can monkey-patch
their own built-ins and it simply doesn't matter.

(If the attacker can monkey-patch Jon's code, they can do anything they
like.)


I think this approach is promising enough that Jon should take it to a few
other places for comments, to try to get more eyeballs. Stackoverflow and
Reddit's /r/python, perhaps. 

Please do followup here with any results, positive or negative.




-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr  5 21:46:47 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 11:46:47 +1000
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
 <5703185f$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <5703F82A.7020603@mail.de>
 <CAPTjJmrZjXxyi-NpuQYdantWbrGM=sHyJsUnBXg4TamJxTJUnw@mail.gmail.com>
 <570408C9.2020801@mail.de> <4A3037EA-DBD8-4B63-A431-84B9990D2262@gmail.com>
 <mailman.95.1459886215.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57046a87$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 05:56 am, Michael Selik wrote:

[Sven R. Kunze]
>> If you work like in the 80's, maybe. Instead of scrolling, (un)setting
>> jumppoints, or use splitview of the same file, it's just faster/easier to
>> jump between separate files in todays IDEs if you need to jump between 4
>> places within 3000 lines of code.

[Michael] 
> When you made that suggestion earlier, I immediately guessed that you were
> using PyCharm. I agree that the decision to split into multiple files or
> keep everything in just a few files seems to be based on your development
> tools. I use IPython and SublimeText, so my personal setup is more suited
> to one or a few files.

How does PyCharm make the use of many files easier?


-- 
Steven



From kw at codebykevin.com  Tue Apr  5 22:03:07 2016
From: kw at codebykevin.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 22:03:07 -0400
Subject: Label behavior's difference between tkinter and ttk
In-Reply-To: <570361fd$0$648$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <570361fd$0$648$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <ne1qin$7po$1@dont-email.me>

In general, the "img.config" syntax is suitable for the classic Tk 
widgets, not the themed ttk widgets. They have a very different (and 
very gnarly) syntax for indicating changed state. I am not inclined to 
see a bug here.

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com


From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr  5 22:09:07 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 12:09:07 +1000
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
 <5703185f$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <570406B0.9020306@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.88.1459881611.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <57044c5c$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <57045022.10005@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.117.1459900408.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57046fc4$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 09:54 am, Ethan Furman wrote:

> On 04/05/2016 04:38 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 04:40 am, Ethan Furman wrote:
>>
>>> Well, there should be one more module:
>>>
>>>     test.py
>>>
>>> So in total, two files
>>>
>>> bidict/
>>> |-- __init__.py
>>> |-- test.py
>>
>>
>> Your test code shouldn't necessarily be part of the package though. If I
>> already have a package, then I will usually stick the test code inside
>> it, but if I have a single module, I keep the test code in a separate
>> file and don't bother installing it. It's there in the source repo for
>> those who want it.
>>
>>
>>> will do the trick.  Oh, and you want a README, LICENSE, a doc file.  And
>>> that should do it.  :)
>>
>> None of which ought to be part of the package itself. Well, perhaps the
>> README.
> 
> If it's not part of the package, how does it get installed?  And where?
>   (Honest question -- I find the packaging and distribution process
> confusing at best.)

Why do they need to be installed? They're part of the development
environment, not the module.

(Actually, I take it back about the README, since conventionally that's used
to give installation instructions. Once the module is installed, you don't
usually need the README any more. But the doc file might be more useful.)


I don't know what life is like in the brave new world of wheels, eggs, pip
and other new-fangled complications^W tools, but in the good old fashioned
setuptools world, you have something like a zip file or tarball that
contains your code, plus an installation script. The contents of the zip
file will be something like this, taken from PyParsing version 2.1.1:


build/
CHANGES
dist/
docs/
examples/
htmldoc/
HowToUsePyparsing.html
LICENSE
MANIFEST.in
PKG-INFO
pyparsingClassDiagram.JPG
pyparsingClassDiagram.PNG
README
pyparsing.egg-info/
pyparsing.py
robots.txt
setup.cfg
setup.py

You unzip the file, cd into that directory and run:

python setup.py install

which then magically installs the module somewhere that just works. In this
specific case, it installs the module in a file

/usr/local/lib/python3.3/site-packages/pyparsing-2.1.1-py3.3.egg

which happens to be a vanilla zip file containing the pyparsing.py file, a
byte-code compiled .pyc version, and a directory EGG-INFO that presumably
allows pip or whatever to uninstall it again, or something, who the hell
knows how this works.

But the installer could just have easily have just installed the
pyparsing.py file alone.

The point is, the tests, documentation, etc aren't necessarily part of the
module, so they don't necessarily need to be installed into your
site-packages. If the user wants to read the HTML docs, they can browse
into the expanded source tarball and read them there, or drag the docs into
their home directory, or whatever they feel like. If they want to run the
tests, they run them from the source directory, not site-packages.

Of course, if you prefer to keep the tests inside the package, that's up to
you. But you needn't feel that this is the best or only place for them.



-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr  5 22:15:59 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 12:15:59 +1000
Subject: Import graphics error
References: <CAO5nurM_6d+3Tz5-=uo1w_nVygFtuwatjejHvhfkUTD-DhvBoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO5nurPUH0GoPje3ZpEPOTP0+AgjomQeDG1BL3pduUkeHYikbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <07q8gb5q9qntqjr1mq6eartf21692fsulb@4ax.com>
 <mailman.118.1459908108.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57047160$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

Since Dennis has X-No-Archive set on his posts, his very useful answer to
Nicolae will be lost in a matter of days.

So I'm going to repeat it.

Nicolae, Dennis found the fix is to change the example code. 

Read the documentation here:

http://mcsp.wartburg.edu/zelle/python/graphics/graphics.pdf

Download and install this file:

http://mcsp.wartburg.edu/zelle/python/graphics.py

Change the example to this:


import graphics as g
win = g.GraphWin()
rect = g.Rectangle(g.Point(5, 10), g.Point(20, 30))
rect.draw(win)
win.getMouse()


which should run now. Thanks Dennis for your hard work identifying this!


Dennis has more comments as well which you should read, quoted below.


On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 12:01 pm, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 17:17:54 +0100, Nicolae Morkov
> <morkovnicolae at gmail.com> declaimed the following:
> 
>>I copied the code from Python from everyone page 67.....
> 
> Which edition? There is now a second edition out (and I don't intend to
> pay $70 for it just to assist a simple question)
> 
>>Following the instructions The graphic modules by John Zelle I copied 
>>into the python lacation ,to be easier to find the path .....
>>
> Which version? Did you also download the documentation (it runs around
> 6 pages) for the library. The odds are very good that the library (v4 as I
> recall) may have changed a lot from when a 1st edition book was written.
> 
> Just downloaded
> http://mcsp.wartburg.edu/zelle/python/graphics.py
> and copied it into my Python installation Lib\site-packages directory
> (actually -- all four, since I have Python 2.7 and [old] 3.3 in both 32
> and 64 bit variants on the machine).
> 
> Using
> http://mcsp.wartburg.edu/zelle/python/graphics/graphics.pdf
> as a guide, I converted your example into
> 
> -=-=-=-
> 
> import graphics as g
> 
> win = g.GraphWin()
> rect = g.Rectangle(g.Point(5, 10), g.Point(20, 30))
> rect.draw(win)
> win.getMouse()
> -=-=-=-
> 
> It runs!
> 
> Note that the current version of that library is fully object-based --
> the rectange is defined by two corners which are represented by a pair of
> Point objects -- and after the rectangle object has been created, one has
> to tell /it/ to draw itself on the specified window. The getMouse() call
> holds the program until you click the mouse in the window (technically it
> returns a Point with the coordinates, but I'm throwing it away)




-- 
Steven



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 22:44:52 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 12:44:52 +1000
Subject: Untrusted code execution
In-Reply-To: <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqeVyFLY0sS=d6a8_7ad-Uhq3Xh+wL-yM5bs09m+JTOdQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 11:43 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> Look at what you've done: you've restricted the entire world of Python down
> to, effectively, a calculator and a few string methods. That's not to say
> that a calculator and a few string methods won't be useful to someone, but
> the next Javascript it is not...

It most certainly is useful. Want a calculator? Restrict the character
set to "0123456789+-/*() " (or if you prefer: ensure that it matches
"^[-+/*0-9 ()]*$") and then eval it. AFAIK you can't attack anything
with just those characters (again, aside from DOSing by ridiculous
exponentiation). Plenty of places I've used that kind of thing, but
yeah, the next JS it is not.

ChrisA


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 00:08:39 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 21:08:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Install request
In-Reply-To: <5704445b$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CA+FnnTzfB81R_38RYeu8L2g1AntBaNRVY8S-ROdOAthSBZRR-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHVvXxT33X7=-Tm6-W6kQofunrw90cxiVuJ1nQitQKPm0zyOsA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.79.1459873183.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <1228f650-7725-4604-a434-1300501ca96e@googlegroups.com>
 <5704445b$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <5e6d5349-101c-45d2-9aa7-95aaa7abfb6c@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 4:34:11 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 02:52 am, Rustom Mody wrote:
> 
> > On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 9:49:58 PM UTC+5:30, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
> >> Another possibility to improve this situation would be to make a page
> >> on the wiki that actually explains the known problems (and fixes) for
> >> 3.5 on Windows.
> > 
> > +10 on that one
> > ie When a question becomes a FAQ just put it there
> 
> 
> Would somebody who knows Windows actually do this and then post the link
> here please?

Even if some windows-knower replies to this mail, someone else can wikify and
put up

Data needed:
Which windows version.
What error message
What action to do



From nomail at com.invalid  Wed Apr  6 00:35:10 2016
From: nomail at com.invalid (ast)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 06:35:10 +0200
Subject: Label behavior's difference between tkinter and ttk
In-Reply-To: <ne1qin$7po$1@dont-email.me>
References: <570361fd$0$648$426a74cc@news.free.fr> <ne1qin$7po$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <57049202$0$7121$426a74cc@news.free.fr>


"Kevin Walzer" <kw at codebykevin.com> a ?crit dans le message de news:ne1qin$7po$1 at dont-email.me...
> In general, the "img.config" syntax is suitable for the classic Tk widgets, not the themed ttk 
> widgets. They have a very different (and very gnarly) syntax for indicating changed state. I am 
> not inclined to see a bug here.
>
> -- 
> Kevin Walzer
> Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin
> http://www.codebykevin.com
> http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com

BitmapImage comes from tkinter. It doesn't rxist
in ttk 



From gandalf at shopzeus.com  Wed Apr  6 02:16:29 2016
From: gandalf at shopzeus.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Nagy_L=c3=a1szl=c3=b3_Zsolt?=)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 08:16:29 +0200
Subject: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604040843440.18407@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
 <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604040843440.18407@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>
Message-ID: <5704A9BD.6070503@shopzeus.com>


> Sorry to be late to the party--I applaud that you have already 
> crafted something to attack your problem.  When you first posted, 
> there was a library that was tickling my memory, but I could not 
> remember its (simple) name.  It occurred to me this morning, after 
> you posted your new library:
>
>   https://pypi.python.org/pypi/intervaltree
>
> This handles overlapping ranges nicely and provides some tools for 
> managing them.  Before posting this, I checked that it works with 
> datetime types, and, unsurprisingly, it does.
Thank you! It is so much better than the one I have created. Possibly
I'll delete my own module from pypi. :-)


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 03:28:39 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 07:28:39 +0000
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
In-Reply-To: <57046a87$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
 <5703185f$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <5703F82A.7020603@mail.de>
 <CAPTjJmrZjXxyi-NpuQYdantWbrGM=sHyJsUnBXg4TamJxTJUnw@mail.gmail.com>
 <570408C9.2020801@mail.de> <4A3037EA-DBD8-4B63-A431-84B9990D2262@gmail.com>
 <mailman.95.1459886215.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <57046a87$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkOm1kEkv=yLzJZjKFkurefq_uE2HUtutrxaYVxmxw5n2Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016, 2:51 AM Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:

> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 05:56 am, Michael Selik wrote:
>
> [Sven R. Kunze]
> >> If you work like in the 80's, maybe. Instead of scrolling, (un)setting
> >> jumppoints, or use splitview of the same file, it's just faster/easier
> to
> >> jump between separate files in todays IDEs if you need to jump between 4
> >> places within 3000 lines of code.
>
> [Michael]
> > When you made that suggestion earlier, I immediately guessed that you
> were
> > using PyCharm. I agree that the decision to split into multiple files or
> > keep everything in just a few files seems to be based on your development
> > tools. I use IPython and SublimeText, so my personal setup is more suited
> > to one or a few files.
>
> How does PyCharm make the use of many files easier?
>

I'll let Sven answer that one. I don't know, but I've noticed the
correlation of habit to IDE.

>


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 03:34:43 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 07:34:43 +0000
Subject: ANN: intervalset Was: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <570431F3.20507@shopzeus.com>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
 <1459523394.2611014.565840994.593DD99A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <570213CB.8040101@shopzeus.com>
 <1459782597.3444051.568344234.048046C6@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <570350DA.7080401@shopzeus.com>
 <1459863844.461427.569565137.1D86E8B2@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <570431F3.20507@shopzeus.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkPLaWM0FUiStvS6o-k2vzrSp1Nw7940AQ3a9bwPSFPCTw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016, 10:46 PM Nagy L?szl? Zsolt <gandalf at shopzeus.com>
wrote:

>
> >> How about creating two classes for this? One that supports zero sized
> >> intervals, and another that doesn't?
> > If you don't want zero sized intervals, just don't put any in it. You
> > don't have a separate list type to support even integers vs one that
> > supports all floats. What operations are made different in
> > implementation by this restriction?
> When you substract two sets, zero sized intervals may appear in the
> result. It is not just a question of "putting or not putting them in".
> Are zero sized intervals valid or not? In my particular application,
> they are not. I think Michael was right: this cannot be generalized. It
> is application dependent.
>

To emphasize that in your project, I'd keep the interval code in the same
module you have the time calculations, rather than breaking it into a more
generic sounding module. Once you relax your goals, you might not even need
a class, just one or a few functions.

>


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Apr  6 04:52:53 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 20:52:53 +1200
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dmk137Ftl1iU1@mid.individual.net>

Another option for graphical stuff is pygame:

http://pygame.org/news.html

A rough translation of some of your code:

import pygame, sys
from pygame import display, draw, event, font, Color, QUIT

# Set up the display window
screen = display.set_mode((800, 600))

colors = ["red", "orange", "yellow", "green", "blue", "purple"]

font.init()
f = font.Font(None, 24)
y = 10
for name in colors:
     text = f.render("Color " + name, True, Color(name))
     screen.blit(text, (10, y))
     y += text.get_height()

x = 30
y = 200
for name in colors:
     c = Color(name)
     draw.circle(screen, c, (x, y), 20)
     x += 50

# Refresh the screen
display.flip()

# Pause until the window is closed
while True:
     for e in event.get():
         if e.type == QUIT:
             sys.exit(0)

-- 
Greg


From nick.a.sarbicki at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 05:05:10 2016
From: nick.a.sarbicki at gmail.com (Nick Sarbicki)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 09:05:10 +0000
Subject: Basic plugin architecture
Message-ID: <CAGuvt93a9sPMSBt+9ybErOsex2YFoAVj8n2KrUnSkHX8oO2P_w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Question on how people here would design a basic plugin architecture:

I'm playing with the idea of having a pluggable system where the users can
create some simple classes which can then be accessed in a Django app.

I want to make it as __simple__ as possible for the user. Hopefully to the
point of being able to make a .py file and then drag and drop it into the
plugins folder. The result should be a dropdown later on with the list of
available classes.

Providing the list of classes once imported should be simple.

Actually importing the classes dynamically has caused a few issues.

I have a solution but wanted to know if anyone had better ideas.

Folder structure is:

?run.py
?loader/
  ??plugins/
  ? ??__init__.py
  ? ??plugin1.py
  ? ??plugin2.py
  ??__init__.py
  ??models.py
  ??views.py
  ??etc.py

My current solution is:

########loader/plugins/__init__.py########
> import glob
> import importlib
> import os
>
> def is_valid_plugin(plugin):
> return os.path.isfile(plugin) and not
os.path.basename(plugin).startswith('_')
>
> package = 'loader.plugins'
>
> plugins_to_import = [plugin for plugin in
glob.glob(os.path.dirname(__file__) + '/*.py') if is_valid_plugin(plugin)]
>
> plugins = [importlib.import_module('.' + os.path.basename(plugin)[:-3],
package) for plugin in plugins_to_import]

In relative terms I'm looking at the packages from the same position as
run.py, so would import as:

> from loader import plugins

plugins.plugins would then be a list of imported plugin modules.

With this I can use the __dict__ of each plugin module in plugins.plugins
to find which classes we want to use.

This works. But I wonder if there is a better way.

Any suggestions?

- Nick.


From marko at pacujo.net  Wed Apr  6 05:12:36 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 12:12:36 +0300
Subject: Promoting Python
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <dmk137Ftl1iU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <87pou3gkxn.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz>:

> Another option for graphical stuff is pygame:

Thanks!

> http://pygame.org/news.html

Especially for this:

   No need to mess with installing it outside of your operating systems
   package manager.

However:

   Does Pygame work with Python 3?

   Yes. Pygame 1.9.2 supports Python 3.2 and up.

But Fedora comes with Pygame 1.9.1.


Marko


From asimkostas at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 06:57:30 2016
From: asimkostas at gmail.com (asimkon .)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 13:57:30 +0300
Subject: mod_wsgi not compatible with Wamp 2.4 and python 3.4.3
Message-ID: <CA+9XG=Pqx6tfYZqU39g+zJpC3Z9f0xKwGxcyvDsh+4n65n3_0Q@mail.gmail.com>

I managed to connect Apache 2.2 with django framework successfully using
Python 2.7 and mod_wsgi.so (Apache module) thanks to the instructions from
https://pusonchen.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/build-django-website-with-apache-mod_wsgi-on-windows/.
The problem is that i see the Django project Web page using localhost or
127.0.0.1 in my browser.
 I want to change it to localhost/mysite as i have built other projects in
php with Apache (WampServer) using Cakephp and other php scripts. Is there
any way or i will have to sacrifice my entire Apache Web server for just
only Django project?
Afterwards i just download https://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/python/
 (MySQL driver) install it and play with syncdb to create tables in my
MySQL database. I create the db using phpmyadmin and import the info in my
settings.py django project folder.

Regards
Kostas Asimakopoulos

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 8:13 AM, asimkon . <asimkostas at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for your reply! Unfortunately i am working on Windows and i think
> gunicorn is not compatible with that OS, Any other known WSGI server for
> Windows otherwise i will have to work with python 2.7.
>
> Regards
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 11:20 PM, justin walters <
> walters.justin01 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Apr 5, 2016 12:51 PM, "asimkon ." <asimkostas at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I am using Apache to develop Python Web applications via Django. As i am
>> > new to python web development, i am having problem to find the right
>> > version for mod_wsgi.so (compiled version for Apache 2.4.4 - WampServer
>> 2.4
>> > - and python 3.4.3 latest version from ActivePython on Windows x86) and
>> i
>> > get a 500 internal server error "The server encountered an internal
>> error
>> > or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request".
>> >
>> > when i try to run the following script:
>> >
>> > def application(environment, start_response):
>> > status = '200 OK'
>> > response_headers = [('Content-type', 'text/html')]
>> > start_response(status, response_headers)
>> > page = """
>> > <html>
>> > <body>
>> > <h1>Hello world!</h1>
>> > <p>This is being served using mod_wsgi</p>
>> > </body>
>> > </html>
>> > """
>> > return page
>> >
>> > I just found the following link
>> >
>> http://grapevine.dyndns-ip.com/download/folder.asp?eid=33&folder=%2Fdownload%2Fapache%2Fmod_wsgi-windows-4.4.6%2Fmod_wsgi-windows-4.4.6%2Fapache24-win32-vc10%2Fmodules%2F
>> > but unfortunately i have got incompatibility problems with the compiled
>> > files mentioned. Any kind of help would be convenient to me.
>> >
>> > I am looking for the compiled (.so file) version, as it will save me
>> from a
>> > lot of trouble.
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > Kostas  Asimakopoulos
>> > --
>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>> Have you tried using apache as a proxy server to forward requests to a
>> dedicated wsgi server such as gunicorn instead of using mod_wsgi? I find
>> it's a lot easier to set up.
>>
>
>


From bc at freeuk.com  Wed Apr  6 07:06:10 2016
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 12:06:10 +0100
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me>

On 05/04/2016 06:48, Gordon( Hotmail ) wrote:
> I am struggling to understand the basic principles of Python having
> spent many years as a pure Amateur tinkering with a variety of BASIC

Last time I looked, there seemed to be around 250 dialects of Basic, and 
with wildly differing implementations from pure interpreters to full 
compilers, from GWBASIC to .NET. (Is there even an official standard?)

With Python there are two dialects, and it's often already installed on 
a system (probably not on Windows though). There are a few different 
implementations too, but code I think is largely compatible across them.

> The problem I am finding is most of the sites claiming to help understand Python devote
> far too much space bragging about the wonders of Python instead of...

I fully agree. But you don't have to use classes, exceptions, 
decorators, generators, iterators, closures, comprehensions, meta 
classes, ... the list of meaningless buzzwords just goes on.

It'll cope with ordinary coding as well, although such programs seem to 
be frowned upon here; they are not 'Pythonic'.

> Liberty Basic
> for n = 32 to 255: print n;chr$(n) : next n
>
> REM BBC Basic
> FOR c = 1 TO 15 : COLOUR c
>    PRINT "Color ";c
> NEXT c

Python apparently has hundreds of libraries to do this stuff, which is a 
downside: there are as many libraries as Basics probably! And each seems 
to work a little differently from the other...

I haven't tried graphics in Python, but I would start by googling 
'python basic graphics' or some such phrase.

-- 
Bartc


From ned at nedbatchelder.com  Wed Apr  6 07:38:31 2016
From: ned at nedbatchelder.com (Ned Batchelder)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 04:38:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <24613931-1957-412e-a803-25a68a021605@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 7:06:28 AM UTC-4, BartC wrote:
> On 05/04/2016 06:48, Gordon( Hotmail ) wrote:
> > The problem I am finding is most of the sites claiming to help understand Python devote
> > far too much space bragging about the wonders of Python instead of...
> 
> I fully agree. But you don't have to use classes, exceptions, 
> decorators, generators, iterators, closures, comprehensions, meta 
> classes, ... the list of meaningless buzzwords just goes on.

These are not meaningless buzzwords.  They are technical terms describing
the features of the language.  You don't see the need for these features,
so perhaps you haven't bothered to learn about them, but that does not
make them meaningless.

In order to make the claim that something is a meaningless buzzword, you'd
have to show the simpler better way to describe the same thing.  How would
you replace the word "class", or "decorator"?  And I don't mean, how would
you write code without using those features.  Python has classes, which are
a specific technical thing that can be clearly defined.

You might as well say that toolboxes have too many meaningless buzzwords like
hammer, screwdriver, wrench, chisel, etc.  It seems like a willful refusal to
learn about what the language offers.

But let's please not run down the rathole again of you telling us that things
like classes and exceptions are useless, and us trying to show you why they
are useful. We've been around and around those arguments, and there doesn't
seem to be anything more to say about it.

Just say that you prefer simpler languages, and leave it at that.

Perhaps what you mean is that there are too many "explanations" out there 
that are not good at explaining the concepts.  I'm sure that's true. But
there are also explanations out there that are good.  Find one that speaks
to you, and learn.

--Ned.


From marko at pacujo.net  Wed Apr  6 07:46:08 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 14:46:08 +0300
Subject: Promoting Python
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

BartC <bc at freeuk.com>:

> But you don't have to use classes, exceptions, decorators, generators,
> iterators, closures, comprehensions, meta classes, ... the list of
> meaningless buzzwords just goes on.

Also, you don't have to use the letter "e" in your identifiers or the
number 2 anywhere in your programs.

Really, there's only one high-level construct you can't live without:
the "while" statement. Virtually every Python program has at least one
"while" statement, and in general, it is unavoidable.

Basic programs, on the other hand, don't need that meaningless buzzword,
but can live just fine with GOTO.

> It'll cope with ordinary coding as well, although such programs seem
> to be frowned upon here; they are not 'Pythonic'.

I wonder what is left of Python after your list of exclusions.


Marko


From random832 at fastmail.com  Wed Apr  6 08:29:11 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 08:29:11 -0400
Subject: ANN: intervalset Was: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <57043001.5060802@shopzeus.com>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
 <1459523394.2611014.565840994.593DD99A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <570213CB.8040101@shopzeus.com>
 <1459782597.3444051.568344234.048046C6@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAHVvXxRRmJKHq-H8xotY9yF+pzG+7NOSMhOwTbL4qF-N4XjTfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459784663.3451967.568464658.50905009@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57037318.6050703@shopzeus.com>
 <1459864776.466447.569580657.1414C457@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57043001.5060802@shopzeus.com>
Message-ID: <1459945751.775469.570632041.367C8E99@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016, at 17:37, Nagy L?szl? Zsolt wrote:
> 
> >> It is blurred by design. There is an interpretation where an interval
> >> between [0..4] equals to a set of intervals ([0..2],[2..4]).
> > No, because 2.5 is in one and not the other. 
> My notation was: 0..4 for any number between 0 and 4. And 2..4 for any
> number between 2 and 4. So yes, 2.5 is in both of them.

My mistake, I'd confused this with a continuation of your earlier "just
move it back one for open intervals" stuff, and I thought you'd said
0..2, 3..4.

> > Uh, exactly. I don't understand why any of this makes it useful to have
> > these operations on interval objects.
> It doesn't make it a problem. :-)

It's conceptual blurriness. It makes it confusing what type is being
used at a given point in the code.

> >> By definition, a set is given with its elements, e.g. for any possible
> >> item, you can tell if it is part of the set or not. So if
> >> ([0..2],[2..4]) and ([0..4]) have exactly the same elements (by the
> >> given definition), then they are not just equal: they are the same set.
> >> The same reasoning is used in math when they say: there cannot be
> >> multiple empty sets. There exists a single empty set. It happens that we
> >> can only represent a finite number of elements in any set on a computer.
> >> I wanted to have a well defined single way to represent any given set.
> > What? *I* am the one who wants a well defined single way to represent a
> > given set. *You* are the one who wants to make [0..4] a set-like object
> > that is different from ([0..4]) and doesn't quite support the same
> > operations.
> Are you suggesting, that iterating over a set should yield sets?

Well, I was saying that iterating over the set should yield interval
objects... there's just no reason interval objects should be _at all_
set-like. There's no reason to use an interval object for any purpose
other than basic utility stuff like iterating.

> Just
> like iterating over a string yields single character strings? To make it
> useful, we must be able to access the begin and end value of such
> yielded sets.
> >
> >> I can also see your point. From another point a view, a set and a set of
> >> sets is not the same type.
> > I'm saying an interval is _not_ a set. It is merely part of the way of
> > describing the set. Just like the word "of" isn't a set just because
> > "the set of all even numbers" is a set.
> >
> > You could consider "the set of [dates|numbers|etc] in a single interval"
> > to be a type of set, certainly. But there's no reason to have such a set
> > _not_ fully support set operations even when those operations will not
> > return a set of a single interval.

> Okay, I hope I'm beginning to understand you. Analogy: the ord()
> function has a string parameter but it must be of length 1. Simiarily,
> when you iterate over a set, the yielded items will be sets with a
> "begin" and "end" attribute, wich can only be used when the set has a
> single element. Otherwise it should throw an error. The same way my
> Interval type throws an error when you try to unify it with a non
> overlapping interval. (???)

I think that's one reasonable way to do it.

> >> If you make a strinct distinction between intervals and interval sets,
> >> then the above equation does not make sense, because you cannot remove
> >> an element from a set that is not an "element" of it. The above equation
> >> makes sense only if the "intervalset" is a general representation of
> >> possible values, and the "interval" type is a special representation of
> >> (the same) possible values.
> > I don't understand why you want to let the user use the "interval" type
> > for purposes other than adding to an intervalset in the first place
> > Nothing you've posted has explained this.

> For iteration over the set and accessing begin/end values, of course.
> But then again: we could use simple tuples for that, right?

I wonder, what operations require iteration over the set? Formatting as
a string, sure, and there's a limited number of comparison operations
you can do. Maybe these should just all be built-in methods.

> As far as I understand, you recommend to throw out the Interval type,
> let the user use simple tuples in the IntervalSet constructor, and let
> the iterator iterate over tuples. Right?

Whether they use tuples or an interval type isn't important, I just
think either way the "begin/end pair type" should either not be
something that supports set operations, _or_ it should be a full set.
Having a type with a union method but that method can only be used in
certain specific circumstances makes it hard to follow what's going on
in code that uses it.

I just think that anything that supports a union/intersect/etc method
should support them fully, because otherwise there's the risk that
someone won't understand what's going on when they change a place where
it's used and it doesn't work anymore.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr  6 08:39:37 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 13:39:37 +0100
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ne302f$a30$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 06/04/2016 12:06, BartC wrote:
> On 05/04/2016 06:48, Gordon( Hotmail ) wrote:
>> I am struggling to understand the basic principles of Python having
>> spent many years as a pure Amateur tinkering with a variety of BASIC
>
> Last time I looked, there seemed to be around 250 dialects of Basic, and
> with wildly differing implementations from pure interpreters to full
> compilers, from GWBASIC to .NET. (Is there even an official standard?)
>
> With Python there are two dialects, and it's often already installed on
> a system (probably not on Windows though). There are a few different
> implementations too, but code I think is largely compatible across them.
>
>> The problem I am finding is most of the sites claiming to help
>> understand Python devote
>> far too much space bragging about the wonders of Python instead of...

See if you can find one or more here 
http://noeticforce.com/best-free-tutorials-to-learn-python-pdfs-ebooks-online-interactive 
that suits.

>
> I fully agree. But you don't have to use classes, exceptions,
> decorators, generators, iterators, closures, comprehensions, meta
> classes, ... the list of meaningless buzzwords just goes on.

You were five days late.

>
> It'll cope with ordinary coding as well, although such programs seem to
> be frowned upon here; they are not 'Pythonic'.
>

How can you (plural) write Python code when you don't know Python?

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From nomail at com.invalid  Wed Apr  6 09:07:14 2016
From: nomail at com.invalid (ast)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 15:07:14 +0200
Subject: Checking function's parameters (type, value) or not ?
Message-ID: <57050a05$0$4546$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Hello

I would like to know if it is advised or not to test
a function's parameters before running it, e.g
for functions stored on a public library ?

Example:

def to_base(nber, base=16, use_af=True, sep=''):

    assert isinstance(nber, int) and nber >= 0
    assert isinstance(base, int) and base >= 2
    assert isinstance(use_af, bool)
    assert isinstance(sep, str) and len(sep) == 1

   tbc

With these tests, you are sure that the function to_base is
well used. But it slows down the program.
Without, python interpreter may crash later in the function
or worse provide a meaningless result.

What library designers do ?
    
 


From random832 at fastmail.com  Wed Apr  6 09:14:56 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 09:14:56 -0400
Subject: Untrusted code execution
In-Reply-To: <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1459948496.786520.570667177.4C7E8044@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016, at 21:43, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> As Zooko says, Guido's "best argument is that reducing usability (in
> terms
> of forbidding language features, especially module import) and reducing
> the
> usefulness of extant library code" would make the resulting interpreter
> too
> feeble to be useful.

You don't have to forbid module import. The sandbox could control what
modules can be loaded, and what happens when you try to load a module.

import sys
module = type(sys)
fm = {}

def fimp(name, *etc):
    # In a real implementation, this could also load whitelisted modules
    try:
        return fm[name]
    except KeyError:
        raise ImportError("Tried to load restricted module " + name)

fm['builtins'] = fb = module('builtins')
fb.int = int
fb.str = str
fb.len = len
fb.print = print
fb.__import__ = fimp
fm['sys'] = fsys = module('sys')
fsys.modules = fm

exec("""
import sys
print(sys.modules.keys())
""", {'__builtins__': fb})


From bc at freeuk.com  Wed Apr  6 09:21:39 2016
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 14:21:39 +0100
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <24613931-1957-412e-a803-25a68a021605@googlegroups.com>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me>
 <24613931-1957-412e-a803-25a68a021605@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ne32b3$7nr$1@dont-email.me>

On 06/04/2016 12:38, Ned Batchelder wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 7:06:28 AM UTC-4, BartC wrote:
>> On 05/04/2016 06:48, Gordon( Hotmail ) wrote:
>>> The problem I am finding is most of the sites claiming to help understand Python devote
>>> far too much space bragging about the wonders of Python instead of...
>>
>> I fully agree. But you don't have to use classes, exceptions,
>> decorators, generators, iterators, closures, comprehensions, meta
>> classes, ... the list of meaningless buzzwords just goes on.
>
> These are not meaningless buzzwords.  They are technical terms describing
> the features of the language.  You don't see the need for these features,
> so perhaps you haven't bothered to learn about them, but that does not
> make them meaningless.

OK, I'll withdraw the word 'meaningless'. Out of the eight things I 
listed, I would only need to go and look up the meaning of three of them.

Out of the rest, I've only used classes to implement records, and have 
been obliged to use exceptions because that was how some functions worked.

> You might as well say that toolboxes have too many meaningless buzzwords like
> hammer, screwdriver, wrench, chisel, etc.

No, those are the basics. Unless you want to suggest a lump of rock and 
a stick are the basic tools of DIY!

> It seems like a willful refusal to
> learn about what the language offers.

The context here is of someone moving over from Basic, which barely had 
proper function calls. Then you don't need that advanced stuff. That can 
be acquired gradually later on, if someone wants to. But get people 
hooked into the language first rather than frightening them off.

> But let's please not run down the rathole again of you telling us that things
> like classes and exceptions are useless, and us trying to show you why they
> are useful. We've been around and around those arguments, and there doesn't
> seem to be anything more to say about it.
>
> Just say that you prefer simpler languages, and leave it at that.

I'm saying that people should be allowed to use Python in simple ways. 
The language seems to have nearly everything necessary to make that 
possible.

(Except 'goto', which imposes some limitations. 'if' and 'goto' allow 
any kind of control flow to be programmed.)

-- 
Bartc


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 09:27:06 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 23:27:06 +1000
Subject: Checking function's parameters (type, value) or not ?
In-Reply-To: <57050a05$0$4546$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <57050a05$0$4546$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqXP9QNC97WKX41FsNze_8vHcBY626VG+A6rE3fOQ640g@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 11:07 PM, ast <nomail at com.invalid> wrote:
> def to_base(nber, base=16, use_af=True, sep=''):
>
>    assert isinstance(nber, int) and nber >= 0
>    assert isinstance(base, int) and base >= 2
>    assert isinstance(use_af, bool)
>    assert isinstance(sep, str) and len(sep) == 1
>
>   tbc
>
> With these tests, you are sure that the function to_base is
> well used. But it slows down the program.
> Without, python interpreter may crash later in the function
> or worse provide a meaningless result.
>
> What library designers do ?

Most likely, it'll raise an exception at some point - or, even more
likely, function *correctly*. For instance, why should your sep have
to be a one-character string? Most likely, you'll simply append it
periodically, or use sep.join(parts) to assemble everything; a
multi-character string should be fine. I don't know what "use_af"
means, but again, you're probably going to simply use it in a boolean
context (most basically, that would mean "if use_af: do_stuff"), so
truthiness/falsiness will do.

So, what I'd do is: Drop the assertions. If you actually need the
checks, DO NOT use assert, but actually check and raise something else
(maybe ValueError). 'assert' should NEVER be used to check external
input.

ChrisA


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr  6 09:29:02 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 14:29:02 +0100
Subject: Checking function's parameters (type, value) or not ?
In-Reply-To: <57050a05$0$4546$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <57050a05$0$4546$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <ne32v4$sfl$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 06/04/2016 14:07, ast wrote:
> Hello
>
> I would like to know if it is advised or not to test
> a function's parameters before running it, e.g
> for functions stored on a public library ?
>
> Example:
>
> def to_base(nber, base=16, use_af=True, sep=''):
>
>     assert isinstance(nber, int) and nber >= 0
>     assert isinstance(base, int) and base >= 2
>     assert isinstance(use_af, bool)
>     assert isinstance(sep, str) and len(sep) == 1
>
>    tbc
>
> With these tests, you are sure that the function to_base is
> well used. But it slows down the program.
> Without, python interpreter may crash later in the function
> or worse provide a meaningless result.
>
> What library designers do ?
>


Please see 
http://ftp.dev411.com/t/python/python-list/13bhcknhan/when-to-use-assert

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From martin at linux-ip.net  Wed Apr  6 09:29:42 2016
From: martin at linux-ip.net (Martin A. Brown)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 06:29:42 -0700
Subject: Set type for datetime intervals
In-Reply-To: <5704A9BD.6070503@shopzeus.com>
References: <56FE0625.5030901@shopzeus.com>
 <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604040843440.18407@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>
 <5704A9BD.6070503@shopzeus.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604060628440.18407@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>


>> Sorry to be late to the party--I applaud that you have already 
>> crafted something to attack your problem.  When you first posted, 
>> there was a library that was tickling my memory, but I could not 
>> remember its (simple) name.  It occurred to me this morning, after 
>> you posted your new library:
>>
>>   https://pypi.python.org/pypi/intervaltree
>>
>> This handles overlapping ranges nicely and provides some tools for 
>> managing them.  Before posting this, I checked that it works with 
>> datetime types, and, unsurprisingly, it does.
>
>Thank you! It is so much better than the one I have created. 
>Possibly I'll delete my own module from pypi. :-)

I'm glad to have been able to help, L?szl?.

And, even if you don't delete your new module, you have certainly 
stimulated quite a discussion on the mailing list.

Best regards and have a good day!

-Martin

-- 
Martin A. Brown
http://linux-ip.net/

From michael.selik at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 09:33:24 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 13:33:24 +0000
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkPkgKnugcnRaY1PgCuJfUsKv5Ef__rbhTM_oNpK+HTAfQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016, 12:51 PM Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:

> BartC <bc at freeuk.com>:
> Really, there's only one high-level construct you can't live without:
> the "while" statement. Virtually every Python program has at least one
> "while" statement, and in general, it is unavoidable.
>
> Basic programs, on the other hand, don't need that meaningless buzzword,
> but can live just fine with GOTO.
>

You don't need WHILE or GOTO, you can just copy-paste code. You probably
need an IF at some point.

>


From bc at freeuk.com  Wed Apr  6 09:54:34 2016
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 14:54:34 +0100
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <ne348r$f5b$1@dont-email.me>

On 06/04/2016 12:46, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> BartC <bc at freeuk.com>:

>> It'll cope with ordinary coding as well, although such programs seem
>> to be frowned upon here; they are not 'Pythonic'.
>
> I wonder what is left of Python after your list of exclusions.

There are plenty of features that /I/ consider must-have, which Python 
doesn't have. It has to emulate them, unsatisfactorily, with variables 
or classes or functions, or do without.

But you're right in that little is actually essential. Basic has shown that.

You need expressions, IF, GOTO, variables and assignments, and some 
means of doing I/O.

Pretty much every language has (had) those, although it's fashionable 
now to do away with GOTO, and some are getting rid of (rewritable) 
variables too! Others seem intent on doing away with control flow 
altogether, just having expressions. Apparently they think coding should 
become more elitist with only mathematicians allowed to participate.

I have the opposite view.


-- 
Bartc


From marko at pacujo.net  Wed Apr  6 10:08:06 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 17:08:06 +0300
Subject: Promoting Python
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <ne348r$f5b$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <874mben83d.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

BartC <bc at freeuk.com>:

> But you're right in that little is actually essential. Basic has shown
> that.
>
> You need expressions, IF, GOTO, variables and assignments, and some
> means of doing I/O.
>
> Pretty much every language has (had) those, although it's fashionable
> now to do away with GOTO, and some are getting rid of (rewritable)
> variables too! Others seem intent on doing away with control flow
> altogether, just having expressions. Apparently they think coding
> should become more elitist with only mathematicians allowed to
> participate.

Oh, I'm also in the minimalist camp. Let me introduce you to the
simplest imaginable fully-featured programming language, iota:

   <URL: http://semarch.linguistics.fas.nyu.edu/barker/Iota/>

When I first ran into iota, my mind was blown. Also, follow the link to
zot:

   <URL: http://semarch.linguistics.fas.nyu.edu/barker/Iota/zot.html>


Marko


From marko at pacujo.net  Wed Apr  6 10:14:13 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 17:14:13 +0300
Subject: Promoting Python
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAGgTfkPkgKnugcnRaY1PgCuJfUsKv5Ef__rbhTM_oNpK+HTAfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.133.1459949616.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Michael Selik <michael.selik at gmail.com>:

> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016, 12:51 PM Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>
>> Really, there's only one high-level construct you can't live without:
>> the "while" statement. Virtually every Python program has at least
>> one "while" statement, and in general, it is unavoidable.
>>
>> Basic programs, on the other hand, don't need that meaningless
>> buzzword, but can live just fine with GOTO.
>
> You don't need WHILE or GOTO, you can just copy-paste code. You
> probably need an IF at some point.

Seriously, Python wouldn't be, couldn't be Turing-complete without
"while" (mainly because it doesn't support tail-recursion elimination).

Now, if Python had an unlimited range() iterator/iterable, you could use
a "for" statement to emulate "while".

As it stands, Python without "while" could only compute
primitive-recursive functions. However, you only need "while" a maximum
of one time in your whole program to perform an arbitrary computation.


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 10:14:23 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 00:14:23 +1000
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <ne348r$f5b$1@dont-email.me>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <ne348r$f5b$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrCbA5UDW9tMVndw2U4EZAn+PBpOL2wYVc=6Mpfee0_pg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 11:54 PM, BartC <bc at freeuk.com> wrote:
> There are plenty of features that /I/ consider must-have, which Python
> doesn't have. It has to emulate them, unsatisfactorily, with variables or
> classes or functions, or do without.

Blub's Paradox epitomized.

> But you're right in that little is actually essential. Basic has shown that.

Actually, BASIC has a lot that isn't essential. A Turing-complete
language can be implemented with just three tokens, although that's
slightly cheating; they form eight opcodes (by being used in pairs).

http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/ook.html

> You need expressions, IF, GOTO, variables and assignments, and some means of
> doing I/O.

Depending on your meaning of "language", I would say that I/O does
*not* have to be an intrinsic part of it - it can be implemented far
more cleanly with built-in functions. Python 2 gave good syntactic
support to printing to the console, and messy syntactic support to
printing elsewhere, but Python 3 proved that it's not only
unnecessary, but counter-productive - it's better to push that to
regular functions.

Technically, expressions aren't required. However, a modern imperative
language will normally have expression support because it's so, well,
expressive.

Variable assignment, yes. And you need some form of flow control
(either 'if' or 'while').

> Pretty much every language has (had) those, although it's fashionable now to
> do away with GOTO, and some are getting rid of (rewritable) variables too!
> Others seem intent on doing away with control flow altogether, just having
> expressions. Apparently they think coding should become more elitist with
> only mathematicians allowed to participate.
>
> I have the opposite view.

Or maybe they think that coding should become more accessible to
people with a strong mathematical background. There was a time when
programming was a thing that only programmers did; that time is no
more. A brilliant physicist who sets up synchrotron experiments should
be able to learn enough Python to tinker with his simulation code; a
mathematician who devises cryptographic algorithms should be able to
transfer the algebraic notes directly into code. A language that makes
it easier to translate algebra into executable code is *easier*, not
harder, for those kinds of people. It might be harder *for you*, but
that just proves that, once again, you don't like what you don't
understand, and it scares you, and this feature is mysterious at
least. [1] Also, languages with no mutable state and everything
implemented as expressions lend themselves well to massive
parallelization; the compiler can look at the code and see easily that
these two subexpressions are entirely independent, and evaluate them
in parallel. That's pretty powerful.

Welcome to Blub's Paradox, once again.

ChrisA

[1] https://youtu.be/xCENkwPiuU0?t=1m59s


From nomail at com.invalid  Wed Apr  6 10:18:10 2016
From: nomail at com.invalid (ast)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 16:18:10 +0200
Subject: Checking function's parameters (type, value) or not ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.131.1459949361.32530.python-list@python.org>
References: <57050a05$0$4546$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
 <ne32v4$sfl$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.131.1459949361.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57051aa7$0$19735$426a34cc@news.free.fr>


"Mark Lawrence" <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> a ?crit dans le message de 
news:mailman.131.1459949361.32530.python-list at python.org...
> On 06/04/2016 14:07, ast wrote:

>
> Please see http://ftp.dev411.com/t/python/python-list/13bhcknhan/when-to-use-assert
>


Thanks for this paper

Running Python with the -O or -OO optimization flags
removes the assert. This has to be known. 



From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 10:20:26 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 00:20:26 +1000
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAGgTfkPkgKnugcnRaY1PgCuJfUsKv5Ef__rbhTM_oNpK+HTAfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.133.1459949616.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmreTmW7n5py_2u6B5LEipW4FKernYREwrDEgdqZ9p=fsA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 12:14 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Seriously, Python wouldn't be, couldn't be Turing-complete without
> "while" (mainly because it doesn't support tail-recursion elimination).

Side point: Turing completeness actually assumes a mythical Turing
machine with infinite memory. So Python could be implemented without
tail call elimination, executed on a machine with infinite stack
space, and would only need removal of sys.*recursion_limit, and it'd
be valid. The *language* isn't broken because of that. Plus, anyone
could implement a Python interpreter with TCE. There might well be
some out there already. The only issue is that you'd mess with
tracebacks, so Guido doesn't want it.

ChrisA


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr  6 10:20:48 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 15:20:48 +0100
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <ne348r$f5b$1@dont-email.me>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <ne348r$f5b$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ne3606$eta$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 06/04/2016 14:54, BartC wrote:
> On 06/04/2016 12:46, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> BartC <bc at freeuk.com>:
>
>>> It'll cope with ordinary coding as well, although such programs seem
>>> to be frowned upon here; they are not 'Pythonic'.
>>
>> I wonder what is left of Python after your list of exclusions.
>
> There are plenty of features that /I/ consider must-have, which Python
> doesn't have. It has to emulate them, unsatisfactorily, with variables
> or classes or functions, or do without.

Please list all these features.  Precisely what is unsatisfactory about 
the emulation?  Please state why you're still here if Python is such a 
poorly designed language that it doesn't fit your needs.  Or is it 
simply that your mindset cannot get to grips with something that is 
different to that you've previously used?

>
> But you're right in that little is actually essential. Basic has shown
> that.
>
> You need expressions, IF, GOTO, variables and assignments, and some
> means of doing I/O.

Are you suggesting that 21st century programming should return to the 
era of spaghetti code?

>
> Pretty much every language has (had) those, although it's fashionable
> now to do away with GOTO, and some are getting rid of (rewritable)
> variables too!

It's 50 years to my knowledge since the first paper stating that GOTO 
isn't needed, hardly "fashionable now".  I get a very strong impression 
that you've never had to maintain appalingly written code.  The overuse 
of GOTO will certainly help in that area.  How does it go, something 
like "always consider that the person maintaining your code in six 
months time is a homicidal maniac armed with an axe"?

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From ned at nedbatchelder.com  Wed Apr  6 10:34:09 2016
From: ned at nedbatchelder.com (Ned Batchelder)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 07:34:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1459952699.1197.python-list@python.org>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <ne348r$f5b$1@dont-email.me> <ne3606$eta$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.1.1459952699.1197.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <09cfd5d7-b5f2-4029-a89a-a489b300c061@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 10:25:13 AM UTC-4, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 06/04/2016 14:54, BartC wrote:
> > On 06/04/2016 12:46, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> >> BartC <bc at freeuk.com>:
> >
> >>> It'll cope with ordinary coding as well, although such programs seem
> >>> to be frowned upon here; they are not 'Pythonic'.
> >>
> >> I wonder what is left of Python after your list of exclusions.
> >
> > There are plenty of features that /I/ consider must-have, which Python
> > doesn't have. It has to emulate them, unsatisfactorily, with variables
> > or classes or functions, or do without.
> 
> Please list all these features.  Precisely what is unsatisfactory about 
> the emulation?  Please state why you're still here if Python is such a 
> poorly designed language that it doesn't fit your needs.  Or is it 
> simply that your mindset cannot get to grips with something that is 
> different to that you've previously used?

No, please, let's not ask BartC to list these features.  We've already
well established Bart's point of view, let's not revisit this debate.
He prefers very different languages than Python.  We get it.  We don't
have to try to convince him to like Python, it's been tried, it doesn't
work.

--Ned.


From larry.martell at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 10:36:20 2016
From: larry.martell at gmail.com (Larry Martell)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 10:36:20 -0400
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <874mben83d.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <ne348r$f5b$1@dont-email.me> <874mben83d.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CACwCsY5TktsvpRtPFDs0i+uAXb1gH=14kv0EcEE2D5m0Q_a1iQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 10:08 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> BartC <bc at freeuk.com>:
>
>> But you're right in that little is actually essential. Basic has shown
>> that.
>>
>> You need expressions, IF, GOTO, variables and assignments, and some
>> means of doing I/O.
>>
>> Pretty much every language has (had) those, although it's fashionable
>> now to do away with GOTO, and some are getting rid of (rewritable)
>> variables too! Others seem intent on doing away with control flow
>> altogether, just having expressions. Apparently they think coding
>> should become more elitist with only mathematicians allowed to
>> participate.
>
> Oh, I'm also in the minimalist camp. Let me introduce you to the
> simplest imaginable fully-featured programming language, iota:
>
>    <URL: http://semarch.linguistics.fas.nyu.edu/barker/Iota/>
>
> When I first ran into iota, my mind was blown. Also, follow the link to
> zot:
>
>    <URL: http://semarch.linguistics.fas.nyu.edu/barker/Iota/zot.html>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INTERCAL


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr  6 10:39:58 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 15:39:58 +0100
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <09cfd5d7-b5f2-4029-a89a-a489b300c061@googlegroups.com>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <ne348r$f5b$1@dont-email.me> <ne3606$eta$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.1.1459952699.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <09cfd5d7-b5f2-4029-a89a-a489b300c061@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ne3744$2g4$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 06/04/2016 15:34, Ned Batchelder wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 10:25:13 AM UTC-4, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>> On 06/04/2016 14:54, BartC wrote:
>>> On 06/04/2016 12:46, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>>> BartC <bc at freeuk.com>:
>>>
>>>>> It'll cope with ordinary coding as well, although such programs seem
>>>>> to be frowned upon here; they are not 'Pythonic'.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder what is left of Python after your list of exclusions.
>>>
>>> There are plenty of features that /I/ consider must-have, which Python
>>> doesn't have. It has to emulate them, unsatisfactorily, with variables
>>> or classes or functions, or do without.
>>
>> Please list all these features.  Precisely what is unsatisfactory about
>> the emulation?  Please state why you're still here if Python is such a
>> poorly designed language that it doesn't fit your needs.  Or is it
>> simply that your mindset cannot get to grips with something that is
>> different to that you've previously used?
>
> No, please, let's not ask BartC to list these features.  We've already
> well established Bart's point of view, let's not revisit this debate.
> He prefers very different languages than Python.  We get it.  We don't
> have to try to convince him to like Python, it's been tried, it doesn't
> work.
>
> --Ned.
>

So why isn't he politely told to shove off as he's not welcome on this 
Python list?

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 11:12:36 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 01:12:36 +1000
Subject: Checking function's parameters (type, value) or not ?
In-Reply-To: <57051aa7$0$19735$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <57050a05$0$4546$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
 <ne32v4$sfl$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.131.1459949361.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <57051aa7$0$19735$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo3QezMS369bsMk4Y-521ZcvW5NnCJRjGEnonTY7ZtmCA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 12:18 AM, ast <nomail at com.invalid> wrote:
> "Mark Lawrence" <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> a ?crit dans le message de
> news:mailman.131.1459949361.32530.python-list at python.org...
>>
>> On 06/04/2016 14:07, ast wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Please see
>> http://ftp.dev411.com/t/python/python-list/13bhcknhan/when-to-use-assert
>>
>
>
> Thanks for this paper
>
> Running Python with the -O or -OO optimization flags
> removes the assert. This has to be known.

Exactly. So your two options are not "remove the assertions" and "keep
the assertions"; they are "remove the assertions" and "replace the
assertions with explicit exception raising". My recommendation is
still on simply removing them, but if you are to keep the checks,
they'll look something like this:

def to_base(nber, base=16, use_af=True, sep=''):
    """docstring goes here (don't forget that)"""
    nber = int(nber)
    if nber < 0: raise ValueError("Negative numbers not supported")
    base = int(base)
    if base < 2: raise ValueError("base must be at least 2")
    use_af = bool(use_af)
    sep = str(sep)


These are either conversions or assertions, depending on your point of
view. Actually, it would be better for these to have some kind of
"ensure that this is X" call; you could replace int(x) with
operator.index(x), but there's no equivalent for str - any object can
be converted to a string. You could perhaps do that one with
isinstance. (IMO bool is fine as it is.)

But I would just leave out this code altogether. Less code means less
chance of bugs creeping in; you might change the code elsewhere to
require, for instance, that base not exceed 36, and then you'd have to
come and change this code too. Without the checks, you'd only make
that change in one place.

ChrisA


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 11:41:26 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 09:41:26 -0600
Subject: Untrusted code execution
In-Reply-To: <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidm=Ri3eez8QSXAy=niYTkoympSiDXQcHrBtwxv1U+eZ1w@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 7:43 PM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> I think Jon is on the right approach here for restricting evaluation of
> evaluation, which is a nicely constrained and small subset of Python. He's
> not allowing unrestricted arbitrary code execution: he has a very
> restricted (too restricted -- what the hell can you do with just int, str
> and len?) whitelist of functions that are allowed, and the significant
> restriction that dunder names aren't allowed.

I took that set of builtins to be just for the benefit of example.
Presumably a real-world implementer would need to go through a much
larger set and evaluate them individually for safety.

Most of the builtins apart from compile, eval, exec, exit, input,
open, print, quit and the *attr functions are likely safe to include.
type might also be a concern since it can be used to assemble
arbitrary classes. locals, globals and vars are questionable since it
might be possible to trick some non-sandboxed function into calling
them. memoryview is also likely best to exclude.

I've no doubt I've missed something either. A script that succeeds in
finding a way to raise SystemExit would be just as bad as one that
calls exit().


From walters.justin01 at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 11:47:17 2016
From: walters.justin01 at gmail.com (justin walters)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 08:47:17 -0700
Subject: mod_wsgi not compatible with Wamp 2.4 and python 3.4.3
In-Reply-To: <CA+9XG=Pqx6tfYZqU39g+zJpC3Z9f0xKwGxcyvDsh+4n65n3_0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+9XG=Pqx6tfYZqU39g+zJpC3Z9f0xKwGxcyvDsh+4n65n3_0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO1D73EZTBhqQ=iG9T+-Y6RURQWfbnPRh9eW1SYoot77BLVEWg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 3:57 AM, asimkon . <asimkostas at gmail.com> wrote:

> I managed to connect Apache 2.2 with django framework successfully using
> Python 2.7 and mod_wsgi.so (Apache module) thanks to the instructions from
> https://pusonchen.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/build-django-website-with-apache-mod_wsgi-on-windows/.
> The problem is that i see the Django project Web page using localhost or
> 127.0.0.1 in my browser.
>  I want to change it to localhost/mysite as i have built other projects in
> php with Apache (WampServer) using Cakephp and other php scripts. Is there
> any way or i will have to sacrifice my entire Apache Web server for just
> only Django project?
> Afterwards i just download
> https://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/python/  (MySQL driver) install
> it and play with syncdb to create tables in my MySQL database. I create the
> db using phpmyadmin and import the info in my settings.py django project
> folder.
>
> Regards
> Kostas Asimakopoulos
>

So, you are running this on your local machine then?

I did some quick googling for you because I wasn't sure if Apache could run
mod_php and mod_wsgi together. Apparently it can. See this google search:
https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=can+apache+run+mod_php+and+mod_wsgi+at+the+same+time%3F&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

The basic premise is that you set one port to your php application, and
another port to your Python application.

So, if you visit, say 127.0.0.1:80, you will arrive at your php
application. If you instead visit 127.0.0.1:8000, you will arrive at your
Python application.

Unfortunately, I do not believe there is any way to have both applications
listen on the same port. You could, however, create an alias so that when
you visit 'htttp://localhost/mysite' it actually points to 127.0.0.1:8000
which is the port for your Python application.

>Afterwards i just download
https://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/python/  (MySQL driver) install
it and play with syncdb to create tables in my MySQL database. I create the
db using phpmyadmin and import the info in my settings.py django project
folder.

Can you explain this further? Are you not using the Django ORM?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 12:04:10 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 02:04:10 +1000
Subject: Untrusted code execution
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidm=Ri3eez8QSXAy=niYTkoympSiDXQcHrBtwxv1U+eZ1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CALwzidm=Ri3eez8QSXAy=niYTkoympSiDXQcHrBtwxv1U+eZ1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpu_r6TQ=1YW1iPA_iZ7odJz-CMgF6rx=ozxSezNyQmvg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 1:41 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> type might also be a concern since it can be used to assemble
> arbitrary classes.

Sadly, this means denying the ability to interrogate an object for its
type. And no, this won't do:

def safe_type(obj): return type(obj)

because all you need is safe_type(safe_type(1)) and you've just
regained access to the original 'type' type.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 12:05:16 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 02:05:16 +1000
Subject: mod_wsgi not compatible with Wamp 2.4 and python 3.4.3
In-Reply-To: <CAO1D73EZTBhqQ=iG9T+-Y6RURQWfbnPRh9eW1SYoot77BLVEWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+9XG=Pqx6tfYZqU39g+zJpC3Z9f0xKwGxcyvDsh+4n65n3_0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO1D73EZTBhqQ=iG9T+-Y6RURQWfbnPRh9eW1SYoot77BLVEWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqSwdmo4B0tOXmeu3UAeeN==5skA2cc1FQV+ciov3TZkA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 1:47 AM, justin walters
<walters.justin01 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I did some quick googling for you because I wasn't sure if Apache could run
> mod_php and mod_wsgi together. Apparently it can. See this google search:
> https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=can+apache+run+mod_php+and+mod_wsgi+at+the+same+time%3F&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
>
> The basic premise is that you set one port to your php application, and
> another port to your Python application.

Don't even need that - I have Apache with both modules active. It's fine.

ChrisA


From hemla21 at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 12:26:12 2016
From: hemla21 at gmail.com (Heli)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 09:26:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: numpy arrays
In-Reply-To: <pan.2016.03.23.13.45.27.770000@nowhere.invalid>
References: <3774dc9b-f9d3-462b-bbe4-41b8b2244db7@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.43.1458729342.2244.python-list@python.org>
 <pan.2016.03.23.13.45.27.770000@nowhere.invalid>
Message-ID: <02464a1b-401f-4830-bf00-c4df4e95fee4@googlegroups.com>

Thanks for your replies. I have a question in regard with my previous question. I have a file that contains x,y,z and a value for that coordinate on each line. Here I am giving an example of the file using a numpy array called f. 

f=np.array([[1,1,1,1],
            [1,1,2,2], 
            [1,1,3,3],
            [1,2,1,4],
            [1,2,2,5],
            [1,2,3,6],
            [1,3,1,7],
            [1,3,2,8],
            [1,3,3,9],
            [2,1,1,10],
            [2,1,2,11],
            [2,1,3,12],
            [2,2,1,13],
            [2,2,2,14],
            [2,2,3,15],
            [2,3,1,16],
            [2,3,2,17],
            [2,3,3,18],
            [3,1,1,19],
            [3,1,2,20],
            [3,1,3,21],
            [3,2,1,22],
            [3,2,2,23],
            [3,2,3,24],
            [3,3,1,25],
            [3,3,2,26],
            [3,3,3,27],
            ])

then after tranposing f, I get the x,y and z coordinates:
f_tranpose=f.T
x=np.sort(np.unique(f_tranpose[0]))
y=np.sort(np.unique(f_tranpose[1]))
z=np.sort(np.unique(f_tranpose[2]))

Then I will create a 3D array to put the values inside. The only way I see to do this is the following:
arr_size=x.size
val2=np.empty([3, 3,3])

for sub_arr in f:
    idx = (np.abs(x-sub_arr[0])).argmin()
    idy = (np.abs(y-sub_arr[1])).argmin()
    idz = (np.abs(z-sub_arr[2])).argmin()
    val2[idx,idy,idz]=sub_arr[3]

I know that in the example above I could simple reshape f_tranpose[3] to a three by three by three array, but in my real example the coordinates are not in order and the only way I see to do this is by looping over the whole file which takes a lot of time. 

I would appreciate any workarounds to make this quicker. 

Thanks,


From steve at pearwood.info  Wed Apr  6 12:30:27 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 02:30:27 +1000
Subject: Checking function's parameters (type, value) or not ?
References: <57050a05$0$4546$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <570539a4$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 11:07 pm, ast wrote:

> Hello
> 
> I would like to know if it is advised or not to test
> a function's parameters before running it, e.g
> for functions stored on a public library ?

It depends. Sometimes it is best to do an explicit type check, sometimes it
is better to call a built-in function that will do the type checking for
you, and sometimes it is best to use "duck typing":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_typing


> Example:
> 
> def to_base(nber, base=16, use_af=True, sep=''):
> 
>     assert isinstance(nber, int) and nber >= 0
>     assert isinstance(base, int) and base >= 2
>     assert isinstance(use_af, bool)
>     assert isinstance(sep, str) and len(sep) == 1

Do not use assert for checking arguments, that is completely wrong and
dangerous, as the user can disable your error checking.

Please read this article about assert:

https://import-that.dreamwidth.org/676.html


> With these tests, you are sure that the function to_base is
> well used. But it slows down the program.
> Without, python interpreter may crash later in the function
> or worse provide a meaningless result.
> 
> What library designers do ?


Why don't you read the source code to the Python standard library? You will
learn what library designers do.

If you have Python installed, you will have the source code. Or you can read
it here:

https://hg.python.org/cpython/file/3.5/Lib/


I'm especially fond of this one, since I wrote it:

https://hg.python.org/cpython/file/3.5/Lib/statistics.py

You will notice that there are very few explicit type-checks, but if you
look at the unit-tests, there are tests to ensure that the functions raise
the correct TypeError as needed:

https://hg.python.org/cpython/file/3.5/Lib/test/test_statistics.py

(Search for test_bad_arg_types and test_strings_fail, for example.)



-- 
Steven



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 13:01:27 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 11:01:27 -0600
Subject: Untrusted code execution
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpu_r6TQ=1YW1iPA_iZ7odJz-CMgF6rx=ozxSezNyQmvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CALwzidm=Ri3eez8QSXAy=niYTkoympSiDXQcHrBtwxv1U+eZ1w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpu_r6TQ=1YW1iPA_iZ7odJz-CMgF6rx=ozxSezNyQmvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmiRM5x=ndvvE2tt8di=XrpngFhTuQ=9yGSBjADTBVdfQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 1:41 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
>> type might also be a concern since it can be used to assemble
>> arbitrary classes.
>
> Sadly, this means denying the ability to interrogate an object for its
> type. And no, this won't do:
>
> def safe_type(obj): return type(obj)
>
> because all you need is safe_type(safe_type(1)) and you've just
> regained access to the original 'type' type.

How about:

def safe_type(obj):
    if isinstance(obj, type):
        raise ValueError("'safe_type()' not allowed on type subclasses")
    return type(obj)


From bc at freeuk.com  Wed Apr  6 13:04:58 2016
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 18:04:58 +0100
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1459952699.1197.python-list@python.org>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <ne348r$f5b$1@dont-email.me> <ne3606$eta$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.1.1459952699.1197.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ne3fdr$sbd$1@dont-email.me>

On 06/04/2016 15:20, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 06/04/2016 14:54, BartC wrote:

>Please state why you're still here if Python is such a
> poorly designed language that it doesn't fit your needs.

I was replying to the OP who was being put off the language. The vast 
majority have to choose an off-the-shelf language, and in that 
situation, Python is probably one of the best choices for someone 
progressing from Basic.

It might have been difficult to tell, but I was /for/ Python in that 
post, not against it. But I'm not afraid to mention cons as well as pros.

 > Or is it
 > simply that your mindset cannot get to grips with something that is
 > different to that you've previously used?

(I've actually implemented versions of 3 or 4 of the 8 things I listed. 
Coming up with and implementing this stuff is fun (and I can see how 
languages and libraries can end up brimming full of every possible 
feature you can think of). But ending up with a new must-have feature 
that is used all the time is harder.)

>> Pretty much every language has (had) those, although it's fashionable
>> now to do away with GOTO, and some are getting rid of (rewritable)
>> variables too!
>
> It's 50 years to my knowledge since the first paper stating that GOTO
> isn't needed, hardly "fashionable now".

I mean for it it to disappear completely from languages.

> I get a very strong impression
> that you've never had to maintain appalingly written code.  The overuse
> of GOTO will certainly help in that area.

(I've not defending its use, but there are good reasons for retaining it.

Suppose you had the job of translating language X to Y. X contains 
control structures that don't exist in Y. Or it maybe it just uses GOTO. 
Would the task be easier if Y had GOTO, or without?)

-- 
Bartc


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 13:36:40 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 18:36:40 +0100
Subject: Checking function's parameters (type, value) or not ?
In-Reply-To: <57050a05$0$4546$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <57050a05$0$4546$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <16317CDC-C320-445C-9F36-AC426E9258BA@gmail.com>


> On Apr 6, 2016, at 2:07 PM, ast <nomail at com.invalid> wrote:
> 
> I would like to know if it is advised or not to test
> a function's parameters before running it, e.g
> for functions stored on a public library ?
> 
> def to_base(nber, base=16, use_af=True, sep=''):
>   assert isinstance(nber, int) and nber >= 0

> Without, python interpreter may crash later in the function
> or worse provide a meaningless result.

Crashing later isn the function is a *good* thing in many cases, because it provides a more specific error. Not only what input was bad, but *why* it was bad. [0]

Meaningless results might be meaningless to you, but your users may have thought of new ways to use your code. Assume they've thought of things you haven't.

You don't want to lock people into only your prescribed usage. Remember, they might have monkey-patched your dependency to do something really cool. Don't ruin their day with "discipline".

However, you might want to protect them from a subtle infinite loop or other traps that are tough to recover from. If it's an obvious infinity, well, that's their own fault. For example, ``range`` stops you from a zero step-size, but won't stop you from ``range(int(1e200))``.

From steve at pearwood.info  Wed Apr  6 13:40:31 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 03:40:31 +1000
Subject: Promoting Python
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <57054a12$0$1591$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 09:06 pm, BartC wrote:

> On 05/04/2016 06:48, Gordon( Hotmail ) wrote:

>> The problem I am finding is most of the sites claiming to help understand
>> Python devote far too much space bragging about the wonders of Python
>> instead of...

I'd like to see these sites. I suspect that "bragging" actually
means "taking for granted powerful features that are unthinkable in BASIC".

If it makes you feel better, Bart, your opinion about Python is somewhat
similar to my opinion on the more esoteric areas of Lisp and Haskell
programming. That's the Blub paradox in action again. But the difference is
that I'm completely aware that my ignorance of Lisp and Haskell is *my*
ignorance, not their wilful obscuration.

Well, except for Monads. I'm convinced that Monads are a long-running April
Fool's gag that has gotten completely out of hand...

*wink*


> I fully agree. But you don't have to use classes, exceptions,
> decorators, generators, iterators, closures, comprehensions, meta
> classes, ... the list of meaningless buzzwords just goes on.

"Meaningless buzzwords"? Every one of those terms have meaning. They are
technical jargon, not buzzwords.

Honestly, hearing you say that makes you sound just tired and lost, an old
dog who has given up on the possibility of learning any new tricks. That's
sad, because none of those technologies above (with the possible exception
of metaclasses, which are kinda mind-bending the first eighty or ninety
times you read about them) are that complicated or difficult to use.
They're just *different*.

I feel for you -- when I hear folks talking about asynchronous programming,
or databases, I feel just as lost. But I'm not so arrogant to imagine that
those people are just flapping their mouths making random noises that have
no meaning, or that they're just sprouting buzzwords.

I don't get async programming because I've never taken the time to learn it.
That doesn't make it a "meaningless buzzword", it makes it something I
personally know little or nothing about. I should do something about it,
and the fact that I don't is *my loss*.

Unless you think that you have learned everything there is to know about
programming, you should know better than to describe modern programming
features as "meaningless buzzwords".


> It'll cope with ordinary coding as well, although such programs seem to
> be frowned upon here; they are not 'Pythonic'.

What's "ordinary coding" mean?

Most people, I imagine, know what a Zippo lighter is, even if they've never
owned one or smoked:

http://www.zippo.com/lighters.aspx?c=1230

You can light a fire with one by flicking them open and letting the lighter
do most of the work. That's "Pythonic".

But there's another way: you could, if you wish, clutch the lighter in one
hand, and a piece of flint in another, and strike the flint against the
lighter hard enough for sparks to come off. Direct the sparks into a small
pile of extremely fine wood shavings, or punk wood, and blow ever-so-gently
until the tinder catches alight. It won't be as easy or efficient as using
a proper flint and steel, but it will (probably) work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_striker

Is that what you mean by "ordinary coding"?

There's nothing wrong with lighting a fire with steel and flint, if you're
in the wilderness, or after civilization has collapsed, and you can no
longer get hold of lighter fluid or friction matches. It was a technology
that lasted for literally thousands of years, it works, and isn't
inherently *bad*. And for those who prefer to use human effort rather than
products of advanced technology (like butane lighter fluid), a steel and
flint is the more attractive option.

But, frankly, using a Zippo lighter as the steel *is* inherently bad, since
its the wrong sort of steel and will be very inefficient. That's not what
Zippo lighters are designed to be. In an emergency, with no other steel
around, using a Zippo lighter as a fire-striker may be justified by
necessity, but it should never be PREFERRED over using it the way it was
designed to be used.

Of course programming is rather more complex that lighting fires, and
there's no hard and fast line between using Python in a Pythonic fashion
and misusing it in a non-Pythonic fashion. This isn't unique to Python: in
*every* language, there is "good coding style" and "poor coding style",
both of which depends on the strengths and weaknesses of the specific
language being used.



>> Liberty Basic
>> for n = 32 to 255: print n;chr$(n) : next n
>>
>> REM BBC Basic
>> FOR c = 1 TO 15 : COLOUR c
>>    PRINT "Color ";c
>> NEXT c
> 
> Python apparently has hundreds of libraries to do this stuff, which is a
> downside: there are as many libraries as Basics probably! And each seems
> to work a little differently from the other...
> 
> I haven't tried graphics in Python, but I would start by googling
> 'python basic graphics' or some such phrase.

Unfortunately, technology has moved on, and there's nothing I've seen that
comes close to the simplicity of graphics programming in 1980s-era BASICs.
The closest is, perhaps, the turtle graphics module in Python, based on
Logo, but I think the honest truth is that for all the advantages of modern
GUI systems, the old low resolution, handful of colour PCs had their
charms, and I think we've lost a certain something in their passing.

Not that I would ever go back to the bad old days when 64K was considered
more memory than anyone would ever need. But still, it's not just
nostalgia, there really was something awesome about turning on a brand new
computer for the first time and being able to immediately start doing
graphics programming.


-- 
Steven



From nomail at com.invalid  Wed Apr  6 13:49:34 2016
From: nomail at com.invalid (ast)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 19:49:34 +0200
Subject: Checking function's parameters (type, value) or not ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.13.1459955565.1197.python-list@python.org>
References: <57050a05$0$4546$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
 <ne32v4$sfl$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.131.1459949361.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <57051aa7$0$19735$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
 <CAPTjJmo3QezMS369bsMk4Y-521ZcvW5NnCJRjGEnonTY7ZtmCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.13.1459955565.1197.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57054c31$0$19774$426a74cc@news.free.fr>


"Chris Angelico" <rosuav at gmail.com> a ?crit dans le message de 
news:mailman.13.1459955565.1197.python-list at python.org...
On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 12:18 AM, ast <nomail at com.invalid> wrote:
> "Mark Lawrence" <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> a ?crit dans le message de
> news:mailman.131.1459949361.32530.python-list at python.org...
>>
>> On 06/04/2016 14:07, ast wrote:
>


>> Running Python with the -O or -OO optimization flags
>> removes the assert. This has to be known.
>
>Exactly. So your two options are not "remove the assertions" and "keep
>the assertions"; they are "remove the assertions" and "replace the
>assertions with explicit exception raising". My recommendation is
>still on simply removing them, but if you are to keep the checks,
>they'll look something like this:
>
>def to_base(nber, base=16, use_af=True, sep=''):
>    """docstring goes here (don't forget that)"""
>    nber = int(nber)
>    if nber < 0: raise ValueError("Negative numbers not supported")
>    base = int(base)
>    if base < 2: raise ValueError("base must be at least 2")
>    use_af = bool(use_af)
>    sep = str(sep)
>
>
>These are either conversions or assertions, depending on your point of
>view. Actually, it would be better for these to have some kind of
>"ensure that this is X" call; you could replace int(x) with
>operator.index(x), but there's no equivalent for str - any object can
>be converted to a string. You could perhaps do that one with
>isinstance. (IMO bool is fine as it is.)
>
>But I would just leave out this code altogether. Less code means less
>chance of bugs creeping in; you might change the code elsewhere to
>require, for instance, that base not exceed 36, and then you'd have to
>come and change this code too. Without the checks, you'd only make
>that change in one place.
>
>ChrisA

thanks for these informations 



From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 13:51:24 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 03:51:24 +1000
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <ne3fdr$sbd$1@dont-email.me>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <ne348r$f5b$1@dont-email.me> <ne3606$eta$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.1.1459952699.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <ne3fdr$sbd$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmozFC_Y5AhOao_mVMmEMmrPVXrai91fCeSidn2yUmT5wQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 3:04 AM, BartC <bc at freeuk.com> wrote:
>
>> I get a very strong impression
>> that you've never had to maintain appalingly written code.  The overuse
>> of GOTO will certainly help in that area.
>
>
> (I've not defending its use, but there are good reasons for retaining it.
>
> Suppose you had the job of translating language X to Y. X contains control
> structures that don't exist in Y. Or it maybe it just uses GOTO. Would the
> task be easier if Y had GOTO, or without?)

Before you say whether the task's easier, you have to first define the
task. Do you have code in a language for which there are no
compilers/interpreters that run on modern hardware, and your sole goal
is to get it runnable again? Are you trying to write idiomatic and
maintainable code in the target language? Or are you just trying to do
this for the sake of doing it, and aren't bothered by the fact that
your code won't be at all sensible in the target language?

Whenever you reimplement code from one language into another, you have
to first take a step back and figure out what the code is attempting
to do. Otherwise, all you're doing is reimplementing, line by line and
operation by operation, in a different syntax. And sure, having GOTO
would make that easier. But I've ported a lot of code from language to
language, and the *ONLY* time I've ever reached for GOTO was
reimplementing this idiom in C:

for foo in foo_collection:
    if is_what_we_want(foo):
        use_me = foo
        break
else:
    use_me = Foo()
    foo_collection.append(use_me)
use(use_me)

In C, 'for' loops don't have 'else' clauses, so I ended up replacing
the 'break' with a goto. Would it have been harder if C hadn't had
'goto'? Not hugely - I'd just have needed some kind of sentinel and an
'if' after the loop. And that was one tiny part of a
several-thousand-line C program, so it didn't make much difference.

ChrisA


From ned at nedbatchelder.com  Wed Apr  6 13:55:20 2016
From: ned at nedbatchelder.com (Ned Batchelder)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 10:55:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11.1459953622.1197.python-list@python.org>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <ne348r$f5b$1@dont-email.me> <ne3606$eta$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.1.1459952699.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <09cfd5d7-b5f2-4029-a89a-a489b300c061@googlegroups.com>
 <ne3744$2g4$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.11.1459953622.1197.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6f9a59a3-ae59-4a7a-851f-3c26ef4395d1@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 10:40:36 AM UTC-4, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 06/04/2016 15:34, Ned Batchelder wrote:
> > No, please, let's not ask BartC to list these features.  We've already
> > well established Bart's point of view, let's not revisit this debate.
> > He prefers very different languages than Python.  We get it.  We don't
> > have to try to convince him to like Python, it's been tried, it doesn't
> > work.
> >
> > --Ned.
> >
> 
> So why isn't he politely told to shove off as he's not welcome on this 
> Python list?

Because there's no purity test for membership here.  You can dislike Python,
and still participate. Bart is not unwelcome.

I did take issue with his mischaracterization of Python's terminology, and
it worked out fine.

It took us a while to understand where Bart was coming from, but now we
understand, and we don't have to go around in circles.

> My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
> what you can do for our language.

You can be welcoming and understanding.

--Ned.


From george.trojan at noaa.gov  Wed Apr  6 13:57:34 2016
From: george.trojan at noaa.gov (George Trojan - NOAA Federal)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 17:57:34 +0000
Subject: functools puzzle
Message-ID: <CABie7_qnKau=J+Xr0MyrekUTXAPthZc=vOQzMzm2bSx11Rwmrg@mail.gmail.com>

Here is my test program:

''' generic test '''

import functools
import inspect

def f():
    '''I am f'''
    pass

g = functools.partial(f)
g.__doc__ = '''I am g'''
g.__name__ = 'g'

def partial(func, *args, **keywords):
    def newfunc(*fargs, **fkeywords):
        newkeywords = keywords.copy()
        newkeywords.update(fkeywords)
        return func(*(args + fargs), **newkeywords)
    newfunc.func = func
    newfunc.args = args
    newfunc.keywords = keywords
    return newfunc

h = partial(f)
functools.update_wrapper(h, f)
h.__doc__ = '''I am h'''
h.__name__ = 'h'

print(type(g), g.__name__, inspect.getdoc(g))
print(type(h), h.__name__, inspect.getdoc(h))
help(g)
help(h)

The output is what I expect:

(devenv-3.5.1) dilbert at gtrojan> python x.py
<class 'functools.partial'> g I am g
<class 'function'> h I am h

However the help screens for h and g are different. help(h) is again what I
expect:

Help on function h in module __main__:

h()
    I am h

But help(g) is (almost) identical to help(functools.partial), the doc
string disappears:

Help on partial object:

g = class partial(builtins.object)
 |  partial(func, *args, **keywords) - new function with partial application
 |  of the given arguments and keywords.
...

The module functools has partial() defined as above, then overrides the
definition by importing partial from _functools. That would explain the
above behaviour. My question is why?

George


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 14:10:11 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 04:10:11 +1000
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <57054a12$0$1591$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me>
 <57054a12$0$1591$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmorCwZJgqQJBE=Pg5RBoeSVCRf9_RZ8BesD_hjjuxUuEQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 3:40 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> I fully agree. But you don't have to use classes, exceptions,
>> decorators, generators, iterators, closures, comprehensions, meta
>> classes, ... the list of meaningless buzzwords just goes on.
>
> Honestly, hearing you say that makes you sound just tired and lost, an old
> dog who has given up on the possibility of learning any new tricks. That's
> sad, because none of those technologies above (with the possible exception
> of metaclasses, which are kinda mind-bending the first eighty or ninety
> times you read about them) are that complicated or difficult to use.
> They're just *different*.
>
> I feel for you -- when I hear folks talking about asynchronous programming,
> or databases, I feel just as lost.

Interestingly, most of the technologies cited as "meaningless
buzzwords" are derivatives of one concept: code reuse. What are
classes? Structured code reuse. What are decorators? A form of
metaprogramming; in its mechanics, it's general and flexible, but in
usage, it's most often a means of refactoring something so you don't
have to write the same code more than once. Generators are a
specialized form of iterator class - you can always rewrite a
generator function such that all locals become instance attributes,
and execution state is maintained in more attributes, and then put all
the work into __next__. Closures let you generate functions on the
fly, saving you the hassle of creating them all as classes.
Comprehensions let you avoid the boilerplate of iteration and
appending. Metaclasses let you push all the coolness of class
instantiation up a level, and mess with the class's class. The only
one that *isn't* largely about code reuse is exceptions, and even
then, you can argue that structured exception handling is a means of
eliminating the boilerplate of return value checking. (Personally, I
see it more as a simplicity and correctness thing, because return
value checking is NEVER done thoroughly enough.)

Now, asynchronous programming and databases, they're completely
different beasts. But it's fascinating how many cool technologies we
have just for that one purpose of avoiding code duplication.

ChrisA


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr  6 14:20:30 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 20:20:30 +0200
Subject: functools puzzle
References: <CABie7_qnKau=J+Xr0MyrekUTXAPthZc=vOQzMzm2bSx11Rwmrg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ne3k1f$5tb$1@ger.gmane.org>

George Trojan - NOAA Federal wrote:

> Here is my test program:
> 
> ''' generic test '''
> 
> import functools
> import inspect
> 
> def f():
>     '''I am f'''
>     pass
> 
> g = functools.partial(f)
> g.__doc__ = '''I am g'''
> g.__name__ = 'g'
> 
> def partial(func, *args, **keywords):
>     def newfunc(*fargs, **fkeywords):
>         newkeywords = keywords.copy()
>         newkeywords.update(fkeywords)
>         return func(*(args + fargs), **newkeywords)
>     newfunc.func = func
>     newfunc.args = args
>     newfunc.keywords = keywords
>     return newfunc
> 
> h = partial(f)
> functools.update_wrapper(h, f)
> h.__doc__ = '''I am h'''
> h.__name__ = 'h'
> 
> print(type(g), g.__name__, inspect.getdoc(g))
> print(type(h), h.__name__, inspect.getdoc(h))
> help(g)
> help(h)
> 
> The output is what I expect:
> 
> (devenv-3.5.1) dilbert at gtrojan> python x.py
> <class 'functools.partial'> g I am g
> <class 'function'> h I am h
> 
> However the help screens for h and g are different. help(h) is again what
> I expect:
> 
> Help on function h in module __main__:
> 
> h()
>     I am h
> 
> But help(g) is (almost) identical to help(functools.partial), the doc
> string disappears:
> 
> Help on partial object:
> 
> g = class partial(builtins.object)
>  |  partial(func, *args, **keywords) - new function with partial
>  |  application of the given arguments and keywords.
> ...
> 
> The module functools has partial() defined as above, then overrides the
> definition by importing partial from _functools. That would explain the
> above behaviour. My question is why?

This is not specific to functools.partial.

partial(some_func, ...)

creates an instance of the partial class. Unfortunately the instance.__doc__ 
is generally ignored in favour of class.__doc__:

>>> class Foo:
...     "CLASS"
... 
>>> foo = Foo()
>>> foo.__doc__ = "INSTANCE"
>>> help(foo)
Help on Foo in module __main__ object:

class Foo(builtins.object)
 |  CLASS
[...]

Being looked up in the class is standard behaviour for __dunder__ 
attributes:

>>> class A:
...    def __len__(self): return 42
... 
>>> a = A()
>>> a.__len__ = lambda: 123
>>> a.__len__()
123
>>> len(a)
42

Most of the time it saves at least a dict lookup, but sometimes it bites 
you.



From marko at pacujo.net  Wed Apr  6 14:23:41 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 21:23:41 +0300
Subject: Promoting Python
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAGgTfkPkgKnugcnRaY1PgCuJfUsKv5Ef__rbhTM_oNpK+HTAfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.133.1459949616.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmreTmW7n5py_2u6B5LEipW4FKernYREwrDEgdqZ9p=fsA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.0.1459952698.1197.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87mvp6lhoy.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> Plus, anyone could implement a Python interpreter with TCE.

Tricky in practice because None is the default return value.

If the programmer were careful to return the value of the tail call, it
can be eliminated.


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 14:38:28 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 04:38:28 +1000
Subject: Checking function's parameters (type, value) or not ?
In-Reply-To: <16317CDC-C320-445C-9F36-AC426E9258BA@gmail.com>
References: <57050a05$0$4546$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
 <16317CDC-C320-445C-9F36-AC426E9258BA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpyV7t0M8qnj4fK=hkGfYUafaaNyZNS8yMRdtCBu3JQjA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 3:36 AM, Michael Selik <michael.selik at gmail.com> wrote:
> However, you might want to protect them from a subtle infinite loop or other traps that are tough to recover from. If it's an obvious infinity, well, that's their own fault. For example, ``range`` stops you from a zero step-size, but won't stop you from ``range(int(1e200))``.
>

>>> range(int(1e200))
range(0, 99999999999999996973312221251036165947450327545502362648241750950346848435554075534196338404706251868027512415973882408182135734368278484639385041047239877871023591066789981811181813306167128854888448)

Looks fine to me :)

ChrisA


From random832 at fastmail.com  Wed Apr  6 14:38:58 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 14:38:58 -0400
Subject: Untrusted code execution
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpu_r6TQ=1YW1iPA_iZ7odJz-CMgF6rx=ozxSezNyQmvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CALwzidm=Ri3eez8QSXAy=niYTkoympSiDXQcHrBtwxv1U+eZ1w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpu_r6TQ=1YW1iPA_iZ7odJz-CMgF6rx=ozxSezNyQmvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1459967938.863834.571003761.535AF864@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016, at 12:04, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 1:41 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> > type might also be a concern since it can be used to assemble
> > arbitrary classes.
> 
> Sadly, this means denying the ability to interrogate an object for its
> type. And no, this won't do:
> 
> def safe_type(obj): return type(obj)
> 
> because all you need is safe_type(safe_type(1)) and you've just
> regained access to the original 'type' type.

tpdict = {}
class typeproxy:
    def __new__(cls, t):
        if t in tpdict: return tpdict[t] # so is-comparison works
        tpdict[t] = self = object.__new__(cls)
        self._type = t
        return self
    def __instancecheck__(self, obj):
        return isinstance(obj, self._type)
    def __subclasscheck__(self, cls2):
        if isinstance(cls2, typeproxy): cls2 = cls2._type
        return issubclass(self._type, cls2)
    def __call__(self, obj):
        if isinstance(obj, type):
            return typeproxy(type(obj))
        else:
            return type(obj)

safe_type = typeproxy(type)


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 14:39:03 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 19:39:03 +0100
Subject: functools puzzle
In-Reply-To: <CABie7_qnKau=J+Xr0MyrekUTXAPthZc=vOQzMzm2bSx11Rwmrg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABie7_qnKau=J+Xr0MyrekUTXAPthZc=vOQzMzm2bSx11Rwmrg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B28F3E20-78BF-489B-98B0-5672CB955602@gmail.com>


> On Apr 6, 2016, at 6:57 PM, George Trojan - NOAA Federal <george.trojan at noaa.gov> wrote:
> 
> The module functools has partial() defined as above, then overrides the
> definition by importing partial from _functools. That would explain the
> above behaviour. My question is why?

A couple speculations why an author might retain a vestigial Python implementation after re-implementing in C: to provide a backup in case the C fails to compile or to simply provide an easier-to-read example of what the C is doing.



From PointedEars at web.de  Wed Apr  6 14:42:43 2016
From: PointedEars at web.de (Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 20:42:43 +0200
Subject: WP-A: A New URL Shortener
References: <1537bd9e261.12a0e5b4a204345.4468160629979098801@vmesel.com>
 <CAGq7KhregQabRkwUg6EQbqqy97FaYrC7WuWuSdO-=mhg0GSneg@mail.gmail.com>
 <500E8DF1-DCAC-4923-BD94-06DA1716484A@vmesel.com>
 <mailman.291.1458254120.12893.python-list@python.org>
 <1964524.jFVgOtWIx9@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.298.1458257054.12893.python-list@python.org>
 <2334208.C0ktZ5B2k1@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.392.1458396992.12893.python-list@python.org>
 <4500052.tJGngFWhWt@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.13.1458942513.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <7663219.M9yg8PEDtW@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.14.1458947054.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <2279730.a2M0GptDFN@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.18.1458964008.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1661862.z6Vd3VmDt3@PointedEars.de>

Chris Angelico wrote:

> In other words, you are assuming that the string escaping *in the
> module* is buggy. Well, duh. This is exactly what I said about not
> having stupid bugs. The developer of a MySQL binding library should
> know the *entire* rules for escaping, and, duh, that's going to
> include escaping the backslash. So the escaped query would be
> something like:
> 
>   insert into some_table (some_column) values ("\\"");
>   DROP TABLE some_table;
>   --")
> 
> which would be interpreted correctly by MySQL.

There is no way a version of a module can safely use an escaping mechanism 
that handles all possible *future* cases.  Further, there are escaping costs 
on the client to be considered for *every* query.

So my recommendation, based on best current practice (OWASP), stands: Use 
prepared statements or stored procedures and let the database do the job.  
*Better be safe than sorry.*  See xkcd.

Bonuses with prepared statements: Not only can the client skip the escaping, 
but queries are faster if you have to do the same query just with different 
parameters.  And you can do things with prepared statements that you cannot 
do in another way (for example, parameterized LIMIT [1]).

Bonus with stored procedures: You can do more complex tasks with less 
overhead.

Off-topic --> EOD.

[1] <news:2193528.dSJ3Ry9s4d at PointedEars.de>

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.


From random832 at fastmail.com  Wed Apr  6 14:44:23 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 14:44:23 -0400
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <87mvp6lhoy.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAGgTfkPkgKnugcnRaY1PgCuJfUsKv5Ef__rbhTM_oNpK+HTAfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.133.1459949616.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmreTmW7n5py_2u6B5LEipW4FKernYREwrDEgdqZ9p=fsA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.0.1459952698.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87mvp6lhoy.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <1459968263.864845.571030425.6B84D3D8@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016, at 14:23, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
> 
> > Plus, anyone could implement a Python interpreter with TCE.
> 
> Tricky in practice because None is the default return value.
> 
> If the programmer were careful to return the value of the tail call, it
> can be eliminated.

Well, the interpreter can know that the calling function doesn't return
anything (returns None). Maybe it could pass a secret argument to the
called function telling it not to return its value and to return None
instead.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 14:50:29 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 12:50:29 -0600
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAGgTfkPkgKnugcnRaY1PgCuJfUsKv5Ef__rbhTM_oNpK+HTAfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.133.1459949616.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnMzeh_qKXBCikrb8T7Mp39+7ERx3QbEf1c1_+NSSaxwA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 8:14 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Now, if Python had an unlimited range() iterator/iterable, you could use
> a "for" statement to emulate "while".

You can already do this.

>>> class While:
...     def __init__(self, predicate):
...         self._predicate = predicate
...         self._exited = False
...     def __iter__(self):
...         return self
...     def __next__(self):
...         if self._exited or not self._predicate():
...             self._exited = True
...             raise StopIteration
...
>>> i = 0
>>> for _ in While(lambda: i < 10):
...     print(i)
...     i += 1
...
0
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9


> As it stands, Python without "while" could only compute
> primitive-recursive functions. However, you only need "while" a maximum
> of one time in your whole program to perform an arbitrary computation.

So this is wrong.


From marko at pacujo.net  Wed Apr  6 14:50:40 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 21:50:40 +0300
Subject: Promoting Python
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAGgTfkPkgKnugcnRaY1PgCuJfUsKv5Ef__rbhTM_oNpK+HTAfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.133.1459949616.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmreTmW7n5py_2u6B5LEipW4FKernYREwrDEgdqZ9p=fsA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.0.1459952698.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87mvp6lhoy.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1459968263.864845.571030425.6B84D3D8@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.28.1459968265.1197.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <877fgalgfz.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com>:

> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016, at 14:23, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
>> > Plus, anyone could implement a Python interpreter with TCE.
>> 
>> Tricky in practice because None is the default return value.
>> 
>> If the programmer were careful to return the value of the tail call,
>> it can be eliminated.
>
> Well, the interpreter can know that the calling function doesn't
> return anything (returns None). Maybe it could pass a secret argument
> to the called function telling it not to return its value and to
> return None instead.

Oh, I forgot about the secret whisper-with-a-wink channel...


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 14:58:07 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 04:58:07 +1000
Subject: WP-A: A New URL Shortener
In-Reply-To: <1661862.z6Vd3VmDt3@PointedEars.de>
References: <1537bd9e261.12a0e5b4a204345.4468160629979098801@vmesel.com>
 <CAGq7KhregQabRkwUg6EQbqqy97FaYrC7WuWuSdO-=mhg0GSneg@mail.gmail.com>
 <500E8DF1-DCAC-4923-BD94-06DA1716484A@vmesel.com>
 <mailman.291.1458254120.12893.python-list@python.org>
 <1964524.jFVgOtWIx9@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.298.1458257054.12893.python-list@python.org>
 <2334208.C0ktZ5B2k1@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.392.1458396992.12893.python-list@python.org>
 <4500052.tJGngFWhWt@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.13.1458942513.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <7663219.M9yg8PEDtW@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.14.1458947054.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <2279730.a2M0GptDFN@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.18.1458964008.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <1661862.z6Vd3VmDt3@PointedEars.de>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmooYhiaXzkSmpWuE6qw_VLHRuyXSexjzdKf-AqKSupw3w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 4:42 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
<PointedEars at web.de> wrote:
> Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> In other words, you are assuming that the string escaping *in the
>> module* is buggy. Well, duh. This is exactly what I said about not
>> having stupid bugs. The developer of a MySQL binding library should
>> know the *entire* rules for escaping, and, duh, that's going to
>> include escaping the backslash. So the escaped query would be
>> something like:
>>
>>   insert into some_table (some_column) values ("\\"");
>>   DROP TABLE some_table;
>>   --")
>>
>> which would be interpreted correctly by MySQL.
>
> There is no way a version of a module can safely use an escaping mechanism
> that handles all possible *future* cases.  Further, there are escaping costs
> on the client to be considered for *every* query.

The cost of escaping is to be considered against the costs of other
options. It's not a question of correctness.

I don't know what future cases you're talking about. If a future
version of the MySQL server alters the parsing rules of strings, it's
not just this escaping that'll be broken - it's *every string
literal*. That would be a major backward compatibility break, and
people would cope appropriately. You're still somehow assuming that
escaping implies that your library is fundamentally buggy.

> So my recommendation, based on best current practice (OWASP), stands: Use
> prepared statements or stored procedures and let the database do the job.
> *Better be safe than sorry.*  See xkcd.

Or use parameterized queries and let the database protocol do the job.
Of course, that DOES require that you not use MySQL. Like you say,
better safe than sorry.

> Bonuses with prepared statements: Not only can the client skip the escaping,
> but queries are faster if you have to do the same query just with different
> parameters.  And you can do things with prepared statements that you cannot
> do in another way (for example, parameterized LIMIT [1]).

How does a generic client know which statements to save?

Also, what is the issue with parameterized LIMIT? Your footnote is of
no value to large numbers of python-list readers.

> Bonus with stored procedures: You can do more complex tasks with less
> overhead.

And one of the bonuses of floating point numbers over integers is that
you can store fractional values. They're solving different problems.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 15:00:44 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 05:00:44 +1000
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <1459968263.864845.571030425.6B84D3D8@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAGgTfkPkgKnugcnRaY1PgCuJfUsKv5Ef__rbhTM_oNpK+HTAfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.133.1459949616.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmreTmW7n5py_2u6B5LEipW4FKernYREwrDEgdqZ9p=fsA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.0.1459952698.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87mvp6lhoy.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1459968263.864845.571030425.6B84D3D8@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqmeK=+fphPMsCes3PS+s2A_DLwO2tQCwg_ORYDuvaKPg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 4:44 AM, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016, at 14:23, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
>>
>> > Plus, anyone could implement a Python interpreter with TCE.
>>
>> Tricky in practice because None is the default return value.
>>
>> If the programmer were careful to return the value of the tail call, it
>> can be eliminated.
>
> Well, the interpreter can know that the calling function doesn't return
> anything (returns None). Maybe it could pass a secret argument to the
> called function telling it not to return its value and to return None
> instead.

This is the exact sort of shenanigans that it takes to convert
recursion into tail recursion - and in MOST cases, it's very little
effort to go from there to explicit while loops. That's why TCE is so
infrequently important that it's just not worth the cost - which in
this case is damage to tracebacks.

ChrisA


From srkunze at mail.de  Wed Apr  6 15:09:06 2016
From: srkunze at mail.de (Sven R. Kunze)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 21:09:06 +0200
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
In-Reply-To: <CAGgTfkOm1kEkv=yLzJZjKFkurefq_uE2HUtutrxaYVxmxw5n2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
 <5703185f$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <5703F82A.7020603@mail.de>
 <CAPTjJmrZjXxyi-NpuQYdantWbrGM=sHyJsUnBXg4TamJxTJUnw@mail.gmail.com>
 <570408C9.2020801@mail.de> <4A3037EA-DBD8-4B63-A431-84B9990D2262@gmail.com>
 <mailman.95.1459886215.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <57046a87$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAGgTfkOm1kEkv=yLzJZjKFkurefq_uE2HUtutrxaYVxmxw5n2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57055ED2.7010103@mail.de>

On 06.04.2016 09:28, Michael Selik wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016, 2:51 AM Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 05:56 am, Michael Selik wrote:
>>
>> [Michael]
>>> When you made that suggestion earlier, I immediately guessed that you
>> were
>>> using PyCharm. I agree that the decision to split into multiple files or
>>> keep everything in just a few files seems to be based on your development
>>> tools. I use IPython and SublimeText, so my personal setup is more suited
>>> to one or a few files.

Interesting to know. I remember us while looking for our next IDE, we 
investigated Sublime as well. I don't remember the exact reasons anymore 
but I remember this lightweight feeling of control and doing all sorts 
of boilerplatey, distracting things extremely easily and most 
importantly extremely fast. It just feels like doing plain'ol files 
editing but with less typing; you can think more (mental activity) than 
you need to write (physical activity). That brought us to another level 
when designing stuff. Keeps us able to handle the workload.

Thus, I use it for my small PyPI projects as well. Why should I use less 
capable tools for those projects:

https://github.com/srkunze/xheap
https://github.com/srkunze/fork
https://github.com/srkunze/xcache

They are small but deserve the same professionalism I daresay.

>> How does PyCharm make the use of many files easier?
> I'll let Sven answer that one. I don't know, but I've noticed the
> correlation of habit to IDE.

Definitely true. I think that's natural and doing otherwise would impair 
the productivity improvements provided by the tools.

About the "many files easier" question: not sure what I said exactly, 
but one could also ask: "what makes the alternatives harder?"

1) learning them and using them regularly
2) you need "switching to a file" as a requirement for those other 
alternatives I mentioned in the other post

So, you before you can even start learning the alternatives, you do 1000 
times "switch to a file".


Moreover, if you split things up properly, you don't need to jump 
between 20 files at once. Usually you fix a problem/build a feature in a 
narrow slot of your code (1-4 files). If you don't do that regularly, 
it's an indication you've split your stuff up the wrong way. ;-)


Last but not least, you basically don't look for files anymore. You look 
for names, and PyCharm opens the file you need. You jump from code 
position to code position by interacting (clicking, shortcuts, etc.) 
with the code. In one file, you have only one cursor. So, when PyCharm 
jumps within in a single file, you loose your previous cursor position 
(You can jump back but that's not permanent - especially when you do 
something else in the same file). If you have two files open, you have 
two cursors and you almost always reside at the same spot there. You 
COULD do that with a single view (split view as mentioned in the last 
post) but yeah that's not as easy as just another file.


Again this is a just an attempt of explaining an observation.

Best,
Sven


From george.trojan at noaa.gov  Wed Apr  6 15:16:17 2016
From: george.trojan at noaa.gov (George Trojan - NOAA Federal)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 19:16:17 +0000
Subject: functools puzzle
In-Reply-To: <B28F3E20-78BF-489B-98B0-5672CB955602@gmail.com>
References: <CABie7_qnKau=J+Xr0MyrekUTXAPthZc=vOQzMzm2bSx11Rwmrg@mail.gmail.com>
 <B28F3E20-78BF-489B-98B0-5672CB955602@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABie7_qYEyGZ6VdSL+Z5JYVbCc17Zm2FGmKA_aZj32kdCs+fhA@mail.gmail.com>

True, but the pure Python and C implementation differ. Is that
intentional?  I find the current behaviour confusing. The doc states only
that partial object does not set the __doc__ attribute, not that the
attribute might be ignored. I had a peek at the pydoc module. It uses
inspect to determine the type of object in question through the
inspect.isXXX() functions. My h is a function, while g is not.

This is a follow-up on my previous problem with sphinx not recognizing the
doc string. I don't know whether this and sphinx issues are related. My
basic question is how to document functions created by functools.partial,
such that the documentation can be viewed not only by reading the code. Of
course, as the last resort, I could create my own implementation (i.e. copy
the pure Python code).

George

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:39 PM, Michael Selik <michael.selik at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> > On Apr 6, 2016, at 6:57 PM, George Trojan - NOAA Federal <
> george.trojan at noaa.gov> wrote:
> >
> > The module functools has partial() defined as above, then overrides the
> > definition by importing partial from _functools. That would explain the
> > above behaviour. My question is why?
>
> A couple speculations why an author might retain a vestigial Python
> implementation after re-implementing in C: to provide a backup in case the
> C fails to compile or to simply provide an easier-to-read example of what
> the C is doing.
>
>


From marko at pacujo.net  Wed Apr  6 15:22:04 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 22:22:04 +0300
Subject: Promoting Python
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAGgTfkPkgKnugcnRaY1PgCuJfUsKv5Ef__rbhTM_oNpK+HTAfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.133.1459949616.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidnMzeh_qKXBCikrb8T7Mp39+7ERx3QbEf1c1_+NSSaxwA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1459968672.1197.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87wpoak0f7.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com>:

> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 8:14 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> Now, if Python had an unlimited range() iterator/iterable, you could use
>> a "for" statement to emulate "while".
>
> You can already do this.
>
>>>> class While:
> ...     def __init__(self, predicate):
> ...         self._predicate = predicate
> ...         self._exited = False
> ...     def __iter__(self):
> ...         return self
> ...     def __next__(self):
> ...         if self._exited or not self._predicate():
> ...             self._exited = True
> ...             raise StopIteration
> ...
>>>> i = 0
>>>> for _ in While(lambda: i < 10):
> ...     print(i)
> ...     i += 1
> ...
> 0
> 1
> 2
> 3
> 4
> 5
> 6
> 7
> 8
> 9

Impressive!

>> As it stands, Python without "while" could only compute
>> primitive-recursive functions. However, you only need "while" a
>> maximum of one time in your whole program to perform an arbitrary
>> computation.
>
> So this is wrong.

I stand corrected.

However, BartC's No-Buzzword Python doesn't have classes... If he
allowed for types.SimpleNamespace, we could have:

========================================================================
import types

def While(predicate):
    def __iter__():
        return thingy
    def __next__():
        if thingy._exited or not predicate():
            thingy._exited = True
            raise StopIteration
    thingy = types.SimpleNamespace(
        _exited=False, __iter__=__iter__, __next__=__next__)
    return thingy
========================================================================

However, that results in:

    TypeError: 'types.SimpleNamespace' object is not iterable

Where's my bug? Or is CPython buggy? Or is it the documentation:

    The iterator objects themselves are required to support the
    following two methods, which together form the iterator protocol:

    iterator.__iter__()

    [...]

    iterator.__next__()

    <URL: https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#typeiter>

Why is a SimpleNamespace object not an iterator even though it provides
__iter__ and __next__?


Marko


From marko at pacujo.net  Wed Apr  6 15:30:45 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 22:30:45 +0300
Subject: Promoting Python
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAGgTfkPkgKnugcnRaY1PgCuJfUsKv5Ef__rbhTM_oNpK+HTAfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.133.1459949616.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmreTmW7n5py_2u6B5LEipW4FKernYREwrDEgdqZ9p=fsA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.0.1459952698.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87mvp6lhoy.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1459968263.864845.571030425.6B84D3D8@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqmeK=+fphPMsCes3PS+s2A_DLwO2tQCwg_ORYDuvaKPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.31.1459969253.1197.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87r3eik00q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> This is the exact sort of shenanigans that it takes to convert
> recursion into tail recursion - and in MOST cases, it's very little
> effort to go from there to explicit while loops. That's why TCE is so
> infrequently important that it's just not worth the cost - which in
> this case is damage to tracebacks.

In Python, that is.

In Scheme, you write loops with tail recursion.

While you *could* use the (while code body ...) form in Scheme, that
would be falling out of religion.


Marko


From mauricioliveiraguarda at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 15:35:40 2016
From: mauricioliveiraguarda at gmail.com (mauricioliveiraguarda at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 12:35:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: good way to avoid recomputations?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.108.1459890173.32530.python-list@python.org>
References: <8725470c-9554-4281-9427-43bd37f42f87@googlegroups.com>
 <570427F2.9010000@lucidity.plus.com>
 <mailman.108.1459890173.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6689fbcf-3345-4d3d-9b76-33c95fa617b7@googlegroups.com>

Hi Erik. It's an Excel file. Thanks for the suggestions. Will check them. - Maurice


From srkunze at mail.de  Wed Apr  6 15:37:03 2016
From: srkunze at mail.de (Sven R. Kunze)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 21:37:03 +0200
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmr17mv4FsdcvVZbVLa-FKWdVtL7mnJ4YZ5EsDAmsb7Ayg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
 <5703185f$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <5703F82A.7020603@mail.de>
 <mailman.83.1459877943.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <57044a48$0$1603$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmr17mv4FsdcvVZbVLa-FKWdVtL7mnJ4YZ5EsDAmsb7Ayg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5705655F.8080909@mail.de>

On 06.04.2016 01:47, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Generally, I refactor code not because the files are getting "too
> large" (for whatever definition of that term you like), but because
> they're stretching the file's concept. Every file should have a
> purpose; every piece of code in that file should ideally be supporting
> exactly that purpose.

Well said.

The definition of purpose and concept are blurry, though. So, what is 
within the boundary of a concept is hard to define.


@Steven
You might not understand the purpose of the guideline. That's what makes 
them so valuable. It's hard to get them right and it's hard to 
understand them if you don't have any experience with them.



An attempt of an explanation (which maybe in itself not 100% correct): 
there are two different forces acting on the source code:

1) make it short and concise (the 2-pages guideline)
2) keep conceptually close things together (cf. Chris)

So, there's always a bargaining of what can be put in/removed from a 
module in the first place:

"just these 14 lines, please; we need that feature"
"but the module already has 310 lines"
"only this one last one, please; it belongs here"
"but it's an if-else and another def; nasty nesting and more complexity"
"hmm, what if we remove those 5 over here? we don't need them anymore"
"really? then, we can remove 2 superfluous newlines and 2 import lines 
as well"
"I could even squeeze those 14 lines to 10 using dict comprehensions"
"that's even more readable; +1 line, that's okay"

Life is full of compromises.

This guideline is more about discussing, shaping existing code and 
extracting the essence (with yourself or with colleagues) to keep things 
on a usable level.

Best,
Sven


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 15:40:58 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 13:40:58 -0600
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <87wpoak0f7.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAGgTfkPkgKnugcnRaY1PgCuJfUsKv5Ef__rbhTM_oNpK+HTAfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.133.1459949616.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidnMzeh_qKXBCikrb8T7Mp39+7ERx3QbEf1c1_+NSSaxwA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1459968672.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpoak0f7.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnWyAxZ-pesgbQ87hmEWEWj27CA8ZJCAruk3L1=H_QRVw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> However, BartC's No-Buzzword Python doesn't have classes... If he
> allowed for types.SimpleNamespace, we could have:
>
> ========================================================================
> import types
>
> def While(predicate):
>     def __iter__():
>         return thingy
>     def __next__():
>         if thingy._exited or not predicate():
>             thingy._exited = True
>             raise StopIteration
>     thingy = types.SimpleNamespace(
>         _exited=False, __iter__=__iter__, __next__=__next__)
>     return thingy
> ========================================================================
>
> However, that results in:
>
>     TypeError: 'types.SimpleNamespace' object is not iterable
>
> Where's my bug? Or is CPython buggy? Or is it the documentation:
>
>     The iterator objects themselves are required to support the
>     following two methods, which together form the iterator protocol:
>
>     iterator.__iter__()
>
>     [...]
>
>     iterator.__next__()
>
>     <URL: https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#typeiter>
>
> Why is a SimpleNamespace object not an iterator even though it provides
> __iter__ and __next__?

Because Python expects those methods to be defined in the class dict,
not the instance dict. In a world with only SimpleNamespace and no
classes, I think we could reasonably expect that to work (assuming
that the iterator protocol is even still a thing in that world).


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Apr  6 15:52:28 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 15:52:28 -0400
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAGgTfkPkgKnugcnRaY1PgCuJfUsKv5Ef__rbhTM_oNpK+HTAfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.133.1459949616.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <ne3pe4$s67$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/6/2016 10:14 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> Seriously, Python wouldn't be, couldn't be Turing-complete without
> "while" (mainly because it doesn't support tail-recursion elimination).
>
> Now, if Python had an unlimited range() iterator/iterable, you could use
> a "for" statement to emulate "while".

For practical purposes, this equals 'while True: pass'

for i in itertools.count: pass

This is equivalent, regardless of memory.

class whiletrue:
     def __iter__(self): return self
     def __next__(self): return None

for none in whiletrue(): pass


-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From PointedEars at web.de  Wed Apr  6 15:56:26 2016
From: PointedEars at web.de (Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 21:56:26 +0200
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>

Rustom Mody wrote:

> On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 5:17:36 PM UTC+5:30, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
> wrote:
>> Rustom Mody wrote:
>> > When python went to full unicode identifers it should have also added
>> > pragmas for which blocks the programmer intended to use -- something
>> > like a charset declaration of html.
>> > 
>> > This way if the programmer says "I want latin and greek"
>> > and then A and ? get mixed up well he asked for it.
>> > If he didn't ask then springing it on him seems unnecessary and
>> > uncalled for
>> 
>> Nonsense.
> 
> Some misunderstanding of what I said it looks
> [Guessing also from Marko's "...silly..."]

First of all, while bandwidth might not be precious anymore to some, free 
time still is.  So please trim your quotations to the relevant minimum, to 
the parts you are actually referring to, and summarize properly if 
necessary.  For if you continue this mindbogglingly stupid full-quoting, 
this is going to be my last reply to you for a long time.  You have been 
warned.

<https://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html>

> So here are some examples to illustrate what I am saying:
> 
> Example 1 -- Ligatures:
> 
> Python3 gets it right
>>>> ?ag = 1
>>>> flag
> 1

Fascinating; confirmed with

| $ python3 
| Python 3.4.4 (default, Jan  5 2016, 15:35:18) 
| [GCC 5.3.1 20160101] on linux
| [?]

I do not think this is correct, though.  Different Unicode code sequences, 
after normalization, should result in different symbols.

> Whereas haskell gets it wrong:
> Prelude> let ?ag = 1
> Prelude> flag
> 
> <interactive>:3:1: Not in scope: ?flag?
> Prelude> ?ag
> 1
> Prelude>

I think Haskell gets it right here, while Py3k does not.  The ??? is not to 
be decomposed to ?fl?.
 
> Example 2 Case Sensitivity
> Scheme? gets it right
> 
>> (define a 1)
>> A
> 1
>> a
> 1

So Scheme is case-insensitive there.  So is (Visual) Basic.  That does not 
make it (any) better.
 
> Python gets it wrong
>>>> a=1
>>>> A
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> NameError: name 'A' is not defined

This is not wrong; it is just different.  And given that identifiers 
starting with uppercase ought to be class names in Python (and other OOPLs 
that are case-sensitive there), and that a class name serves in constructor 
calls (in Python, instantiating a class is otherwise indistinguishable from 
a function call), it makes sense that the (maybe local) variable ?a? should 
be different from the (probably global) class ?A?.

> [Likewise filenames windows gets right; Unix wrong]

Utter nonsense.  Apparently you are blissfully unaware of how much grief it 
has caused WinDOS lusers and users alike over the years that Micro$~1 
decided in their infinite wisdom that letter case was not important.

Example: By contrast to previous versions, FAT32 supports long filenames 
(VFAT).  Go try changing a long filename from uppercase (?Really Long 
Filename.txt?) to partial lowercase (?Really long filename.txt?).  It does 
not work, you get an error, because the underlying ?short filename? is the 
same as it is has to be case-insensitive for backwards compatibility 
(?REALLY~1.TXT?)  First you have to rename the file so that its name results 
in a different ?short filename? (?REALLY~2.TXT?).  Then you have to rename 
it again to get the proper letter case (by which the ?short filename? might 
either become ?REALLY~1.TXT? again or ?REALLY~3.TXT?).

> Unicode Identifiers in the spirit of IDN homograph attack.
> Every language that 'supports' unicode gets it wrong

NAK, see above.
 
> Python3
>>>> A=1
>>>> ?
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> NameError: name '?' is not defined
>>>> A
> 1
> 
> Can you make out why A both is and is not defined?

Fallacy.  ?A? is _not_ both defined and not defined.  There is only one ?A?.

However, given the proper font, I might see at a glance what is wrong there.  
In fact, in my Konsole[tm] where the default font is ?Courier 10 Pitch? I 
clearly see what is wrong there.  ?A? (U+0041 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A) is 
displayed using that serif font where the letter has a serif to the left at 
cap height and serifs left and right on the baseline, while ??? (U+0391 
GREEK CAPITAL LETTER ALPHA) is displayed using a sans-serif font, where also 
the cap height is considerably higher.
 
> When the language does not support it eg python2 the behavior is better

NAK.  Being able to use Unicode strings verbatim in a program without having 
to declare them is infinitely useful.  Unicode identifiers appear to be 
merely a (happy?) side effect of that.

> The notion of 'variable' in programming language is inherently based on
> that of 'identifier'.

ACK.

> With ASCII the problems are minor: Case-distinct identifiers are distinct
> -- they dont IDENTIFY.

I do not think this is a problem.

> This contradicts standard English usage and practice 

No, it does not.  English distinguishes between proper *nouns* and proper 
*names* (the latter can be the former).  For example, ?Wednesday?, 
regardless where it occurs in a sentence, is an English word, a proper 
*name*; by contrast, ?wednesday? is not only neither a proper noun nor a 
proper name; it is not a proper English *word* in the first place.  ?i? 
might be the imaginary unit or a marketing abbreviation for ?internet? [1]; 
?I? is (AFAIK) *only* the English pronoun for referring to oneself.

[1] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMac#History>

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.


From marko at pacujo.net  Wed Apr  6 15:59:41 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 22:59:41 +0300
Subject: Promoting Python
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAGgTfkPkgKnugcnRaY1PgCuJfUsKv5Ef__rbhTM_oNpK+HTAfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.133.1459949616.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidnMzeh_qKXBCikrb8T7Mp39+7ERx3QbEf1c1_+NSSaxwA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1459968672.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpoak0f7.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidnWyAxZ-pesgbQ87hmEWEWj27CA8ZJCAruk3L1=H_QRVw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.35.1459971706.1197.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87mvp6jyoi.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com>:

> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> Why is a SimpleNamespace object not an iterator even though it
>> provides __iter__ and __next__?
>
> Because Python expects those methods to be defined in the class dict,
> not the instance dict.

The documentation does state: 

   these are used to allow user-defined classes to support iteration

although the rest of it only refers to objects.

It seems to me CPython is being a bit too picky here. Why should it care
if the method is a class method or an object method?

Anyway, that leaves the clever iterator trick out of No-Buzzword Python.


Marko


From marko at pacujo.net  Wed Apr  6 16:05:50 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 23:05:50 +0300
Subject: Promoting Python
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAGgTfkPkgKnugcnRaY1PgCuJfUsKv5Ef__rbhTM_oNpK+HTAfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.133.1459949616.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <ne3pe4$s67$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.37.1459972365.1197.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87inzujye9.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu>:

> On 4/6/2016 10:14 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>
>> Seriously, Python wouldn't be, couldn't be Turing-complete without
>> "while" (mainly because it doesn't support tail-recursion
>> elimination).
>>
>> Now, if Python had an unlimited range() iterator/iterable, you could
>> use a "for" statement to emulate "while".
>
> For practical purposes, this equals 'while True: pass'
>
> for i in itertools.count: pass
>
> This is equivalent, regardless of memory.
>
> class whiletrue:
>     def __iter__(self): return self
>     def __next__(self): return None
>
> for none in whiletrue(): pass

By George, she's got it!

    i = 0
    for _ in itertools.count():
        if i >= 10:
            break
        print(i)
        i += 1

That is, assuming "break" is allowed.


Marko


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 16:19:57 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 14:19:57 -0600
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <87mvp6jyoi.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAGgTfkPkgKnugcnRaY1PgCuJfUsKv5Ef__rbhTM_oNpK+HTAfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.133.1459949616.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidnMzeh_qKXBCikrb8T7Mp39+7ERx3QbEf1c1_+NSSaxwA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1459968672.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpoak0f7.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidnWyAxZ-pesgbQ87hmEWEWj27CA8ZJCAruk3L1=H_QRVw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.35.1459971706.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87mvp6jyoi.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmyUEenonFLmUs0jGBCbwatBVhQJiVtsCEYTCSX0Tz1aw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 1:59 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com>:
>
>> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>>> Why is a SimpleNamespace object not an iterator even though it
>>> provides __iter__ and __next__?
>>
>> Because Python expects those methods to be defined in the class dict,
>> not the instance dict.
>
> The documentation does state:
>
>    these are used to allow user-defined classes to support iteration
>
> although the rest of it only refers to objects.
>
> It seems to me CPython is being a bit too picky here. Why should it care
> if the method is a class method or an object method?

Because the purpose of a class is to define the behavior of its
instances. A function stored in an object attribute technically isn't
a method at all. It's just a function that happens to be stored in an
object attribute, i.e. *data*. Why should the behavior of a
SimpleNamespace change just because somebody decided they wanted to
store something under the name "__iter__" (or worse,
"__getattribute__")?

Also, because not having to check the instance dict for the presence
of dunder methods is faster.


From cts.private.yahoo at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 16:21:28 2016
From: cts.private.yahoo at gmail.com (Charles T. Smith)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:21:28 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: recursive methods require implementing a stack?
Message-ID: <ne3r48$bk8$1@dont-email.me>

I just tried to write a recursive method in python - am I right that local
variables are only lexically local scoped, so sub-instances have the same
ones?  Is there a way out of that?  Do I have to push and pop my own simulated
stack frame entry? 


From rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid  Wed Apr  6 16:28:47 2016
From: rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid (Rob Gaddi)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:28:47 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: recursive methods require implementing a stack?
References: <ne3r48$bk8$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ne3rhv$e1e$1@dont-email.me>

Charles T. Smith wrote:

> I just tried to write a recursive method in python - am I right that local
> variables are only lexically local scoped, so sub-instances have the same
> ones?  Is there a way out of that?  Do I have to push and pop my own simulated
> stack frame entry? 

You have been badly misled.  Python local variables are frame local, and
recursion just works.

-- 
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com
Email address domain is currently out of order.  See above to fix.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr  6 16:38:35 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 21:38:35 +0100
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <6f9a59a3-ae59-4a7a-851f-3c26ef4395d1@googlegroups.com>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <ne348r$f5b$1@dont-email.me> <ne3606$eta$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.1.1459952699.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <09cfd5d7-b5f2-4029-a89a-a489b300c061@googlegroups.com>
 <ne3744$2g4$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.11.1459953622.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <6f9a59a3-ae59-4a7a-851f-3c26ef4395d1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ne3s4h$7if$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 06/04/2016 18:55, Ned Batchelder wrote:
>
> It took us a while to understand where Bart was coming from, but now we
> understand, and we don't have to go around in circles.
>

No it didn't, it was quite clear from the beginning that he knew squat, 
and since then he's admitted that he knows squat.  About Python.  On the 
main Python list.  Perhaps he should hence forward be known as RUE2? 
Actually that is unfair, the original RUE only complains about PEP393 
unicode, BartC complains about everything.  I still do not believe that 
he could organise a piss up in a brewery, let alone write decent code. 
Until such time as I see proof that he has any idea at all as to what 
he's talking about, he stays firmly in my dream team.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From marko at pacujo.net  Wed Apr  6 16:39:01 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 23:39:01 +0300
Subject: Promoting Python
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAGgTfkPkgKnugcnRaY1PgCuJfUsKv5Ef__rbhTM_oNpK+HTAfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.133.1459949616.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidnMzeh_qKXBCikrb8T7Mp39+7ERx3QbEf1c1_+NSSaxwA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1459968672.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpoak0f7.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidnWyAxZ-pesgbQ87hmEWEWj27CA8ZJCAruk3L1=H_QRVw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.35.1459971706.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87mvp6jyoi.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidmyUEenonFLmUs0jGBCbwatBVhQJiVtsCEYTCSX0Tz1aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.39.1459974039.1197.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87egaijwuy.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com>:

> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 1:59 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> It seems to me CPython is being a bit too picky here. Why should it
>> care if the method is a class method or an object method?
>
> Because the purpose of a class is to define the behavior of its
> instances. A function stored in an object attribute technically isn't
> a method at all. It's just a function that happens to be stored in an
> object attribute, i.e. *data*. Why should the behavior of a
> SimpleNamespace change just because somebody decided they wanted to
> store something under the name "__iter__" (or worse,
> "__getattribute__")?
>
> Also, because not having to check the instance dict for the presence
> of dunder methods is faster.

Not convinced. Probably just an oversight.

For example, file-like objects have no such reservations:

    import sys
    import types
    import xml.dom.minidom

    filelike = types.SimpleNamespace()
    def write(s):
        for c in s:
            sys.stdout.write("{{{}}}".format(c))
    filelike.write = write
    filelike.close = lambda: None
    doc = xml.dom.minidom.getDOMImplementation().createDocument(
        None, "tag", None).writexml(filelike)
    sys.stdout.write("\n")



Marko


From random832 at fastmail.com  Wed Apr  6 17:08:27 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 17:08:27 -0400
Subject: recursive methods require implementing a stack?
In-Reply-To: <ne3r48$bk8$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ne3r48$bk8$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <1459976907.898823.571164641.6BCE343C@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016, at 16:21, Charles T. Smith wrote:
> I just tried to write a recursive method in python - am I right that
> local
> variables are only lexically local scoped, so sub-instances have the same
> ones?  Is there a way out of that?  Do I have to push and pop my own
> simulated
> stack frame entry? 

No, and I'm not sure why you would think that.


From carl at oddbird.net  Wed Apr  6 17:18:25 2016
From: carl at oddbird.net (Carl Meyer)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 15:18:25 -0600
Subject: recursive methods require implementing a stack?
In-Reply-To: <1459976907.898823.571164641.6BCE343C@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <ne3r48$bk8$1@dont-email.me>
 <1459976907.898823.571164641.6BCE343C@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <57057D21.8010504@oddbird.net>

On 04/06/2016 03:08 PM, Random832 wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016, at 16:21, Charles T. Smith wrote:
>> I just tried to write a recursive method in python - am I right that
>> local
>> variables are only lexically local scoped, so sub-instances have the same
>> ones?  Is there a way out of that?  Do I have to push and pop my own
>> simulated
>> stack frame entry? 
> 
> No, and I'm not sure why you would think that.

Sounds like a confusion that might arise due to using a mutable default
arg? Or generally passing a mutable arg and not understanding Python's
calling semantics?

Carl

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From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 17:37:28 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 15:37:28 -0600
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <87egaijwuy.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAGgTfkPkgKnugcnRaY1PgCuJfUsKv5Ef__rbhTM_oNpK+HTAfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.133.1459949616.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidnMzeh_qKXBCikrb8T7Mp39+7ERx3QbEf1c1_+NSSaxwA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1459968672.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpoak0f7.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidnWyAxZ-pesgbQ87hmEWEWj27CA8ZJCAruk3L1=H_QRVw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.35.1459971706.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87mvp6jyoi.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidmyUEenonFLmUs0jGBCbwatBVhQJiVtsCEYTCSX0Tz1aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.39.1459974039.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87egaijwuy.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=5eNxPOFm1zDe_wXSbW_HM1trO-1YxrpA7qrTQ0p9AiA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:39 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com>:
>
>> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 1:59 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>>> It seems to me CPython is being a bit too picky here. Why should it
>>> care if the method is a class method or an object method?
>>
>> Because the purpose of a class is to define the behavior of its
>> instances. A function stored in an object attribute technically isn't
>> a method at all. It's just a function that happens to be stored in an
>> object attribute, i.e. *data*. Why should the behavior of a
>> SimpleNamespace change just because somebody decided they wanted to
>> store something under the name "__iter__" (or worse,
>> "__getattribute__")?
>>
>> Also, because not having to check the instance dict for the presence
>> of dunder methods is faster.
>
> Not convinced. Probably just an oversight.

It's documented here:
https://docs.python.org/3/reference/datamodel.html#special-method-lookup

> For example, file-like objects have no such reservations:
>
>     import sys
>     import types
>     import xml.dom.minidom
>
>     filelike = types.SimpleNamespace()
>     def write(s):
>         for c in s:
>             sys.stdout.write("{{{}}}".format(c))
>     filelike.write = write
>     filelike.close = lambda: None
>     doc = xml.dom.minidom.getDOMImplementation().createDocument(
>         None, "tag", None).writexml(filelike)
>     sys.stdout.write("\n")

The minidom implementation is probably just calling
filelike.write('blah'). That will succeed in calling either a method
or a function-in-an-attribute. Note that the write function you
defined in this example has no self argument. This points to the fact
that it's not truly a method.


From marko at pacujo.net  Wed Apr  6 18:03:34 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 01:03:34 +0300
Subject: Promoting Python
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAGgTfkPkgKnugcnRaY1PgCuJfUsKv5Ef__rbhTM_oNpK+HTAfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.133.1459949616.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidnMzeh_qKXBCikrb8T7Mp39+7ERx3QbEf1c1_+NSSaxwA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1459968672.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpoak0f7.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidnWyAxZ-pesgbQ87hmEWEWj27CA8ZJCAruk3L1=H_QRVw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.35.1459971706.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87mvp6jyoi.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidmyUEenonFLmUs0jGBCbwatBVhQJiVtsCEYTCSX0Tz1aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.39.1459974039.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87egaijwuy.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzid=5eNxPOFm1zDe_wXSbW_HM1trO-1YxrpA7qrTQ0p9AiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1459978690.1197.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87wpoaiedl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com>:

> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:39 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> Not convinced. Probably just an oversight.
>
> It's documented here:
> https://docs.python.org/3/reference/datamodel.html#special-method-lookup

Ok, not an oversight but some inherent trouble with the way object
methods are related with their prototypes in the class. An unexpected
deficiency in the object-class relationship of sorts.

> The minidom implementation is probably just calling
> filelike.write('blah'). That will succeed in calling either a method
> or a function-in-an-attribute. Note that the write function you
> defined in this example has no self argument. This points to the fact
> that it's not truly a method.

No true Scotsman, there?

Once you look up an object method, it doesn't have a self argument. The
self argument is cooked up for the benefit of the function definition in
the class.

IOW, if I have this class:

    class A:
        def f(self):
            print("f")

and this object:

    a = A()

then,

    a.f

is a function that doesn't have a self argument. That function is
generated on the fly, and it delegates to A.f, providing it with self
argument.

However, a.f itself is just a function that doesn't accept any
arguments.

Defining:

    def f():
        print("f")
    a.f = f

simply short-circuits the attribute lookup process; no need to consult
the class when the attribute (method!) is right there in the object's
dict.


Marko


From bc at freeuk.com  Wed Apr  6 18:24:40 2016
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 23:24:40 +0100
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.40.1459975137.1197.python-list@python.org>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <ne348r$f5b$1@dont-email.me> <ne3606$eta$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.1.1459952699.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <09cfd5d7-b5f2-4029-a89a-a489b300c061@googlegroups.com>
 <ne3744$2g4$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.11.1459953622.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <6f9a59a3-ae59-4a7a-851f-3c26ef4395d1@googlegroups.com>
 <ne3s4h$7if$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.40.1459975137.1197.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ne4258$9e3$1@dont-email.me>

On 06/04/2016 21:38, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> No it didn't, it was quite clear from the beginning that he knew squat,
> and since then he's admitted that he knows squat.  About Python.

I see. According to you:

(1) To have an opinion about a language, you have to know everything in 
it 100%, inside out and backwards.

(2) It's impossible for someone who's coded for decades to switch to a 
different language, just by familiarising themselves with the 
'controls', as people do when driving a different vehicle

(3) The only people who can give advice to newcomers in a language are 
complete experts in it, and not those who have experienced some of the 
same problems.


> On the
> main Python list.

I'm posting to a usenet group. I haven't subscribed to any list.

AFAIK this is a public group where anyone can post.




From emekamicro at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 18:25:08 2016
From: emekamicro at gmail.com (Emeka)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 23:25:08 +0100
Subject: Joining Strings
Message-ID: <CAOypoo5YpPLNeobY3uo8o_KjXtfEWcmqffsEUXrqsJ0ACpkBWA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,

import urllib.request
import re

url = 'https://www.everyday.com/



req = urllib.request.Request(url)
resp = urllib.request.urlopen(req)
respData = resp.read()


paragraphs = re.findall(r'\[(.*?)\]',str(respData))
for eachP in paragraphs:
    print("".join(eachP.split(',')[1:-2]))
    print("\n")



I got the below:
"Coke -  Yala Market Branch""NO. 113 IKU BAKR WAY YALA"""
But what I need is

'Coke -  Yala Market Branch NO. 113 IKU BAKR WAY YALA'

How to I achieve the above?

Regards Janus


-- 
P.S Please join our groups*:  *nigeriaarduinogroup at googlegroups.com
* or *jifunze-kufikiria at googlegroups.com  These are platforms for learning
and sharing  of knowledge.
                                     www.satajanus.com | *Satajanus  Nig.
Ltd*


From johnhpote at o2.co.uk  Wed Apr  6 18:58:40 2016
From: johnhpote at o2.co.uk (John Pote)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 23:58:40 +0100
Subject: Evaluating error strings for 'unittest' assert methods.
Message-ID: <570594A0.1020407@o2.co.uk>

I have been writing a very useful test script using the standard Python 
'unittest' module. This works fine and has been a huge help in keeping 
the system I've been writing fully working even when I make changes that 
could break many features of the system. eg major rewrite of the 
interrupt routines. The target system in question is written in 'C' and 
runs on a 50p microcontroller at the end of a serial line.

I like each assert...() to output helpful information when things go 
wrong. So I have put in quite complicated code to generate the error 
string the assert() method uses only when things go wrong. The normal 
case, when everything is working, means that all these error strings are 
constructed only to be discarded immediately when the assert() detects 
the test result is correct and no exception is throw.

To my mind this seems a waste and adding unnecessary delays in the 
running of the whole test script.

So I was wondering if there was some convienient, Python, way of calling 
an assert() method so the error string is only evaluated/constructed if 
the assert() fails and throws an exception. For example,

self.assertEqual( (nBytes,expectedValues), (nBytesRd,valuesRead),
             """Unexpected reg value.
Expected values nBytes:%02x (%s)
"""%(nBytes,' '.join( [ "%04x"%v for v in expectedValues] )) +
"Read values     nBytes:%02x (%s)"%(nBytesRd,' '.join( [ "%04x"%v for v 
in valuesRead] ))
         )

Ideas invited, thanks everyone,
John


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 19:34:28 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 23:34:28 +0000
Subject: functools puzzle
In-Reply-To: <CABie7_qYEyGZ6VdSL+Z5JYVbCc17Zm2FGmKA_aZj32kdCs+fhA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABie7_qnKau=J+Xr0MyrekUTXAPthZc=vOQzMzm2bSx11Rwmrg@mail.gmail.com>
 <B28F3E20-78BF-489B-98B0-5672CB955602@gmail.com>
 <CABie7_qYEyGZ6VdSL+Z5JYVbCc17Zm2FGmKA_aZj32kdCs+fhA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkOtXhQ_nj7O1wChLktTccB54G29nnN9NFR0Eb9keBbYsQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 8:16 PM George Trojan - NOAA Federal <
george.trojan at noaa.gov> wrote:

> My basic question is how to document functions created by
> functools.partial, such that the documentation can be viewed not only by
> reading the code. Of course, as the last resort, I could create my own
> implementation (i.e. copy the pure Python code).
>

I don't think this is a complete solution, but it might get you a bit
closer.

    import functools
    import math

    def party(func, *args, **kwargs):
        d = {'__name__': func.__name__,
             '__doc__': func.__doc__,}
        partial = type('partial', (functools.partial,), d)
        foo = partial(func, *args, **kwargs)
        return foo

    exp = party(pow, math.e)
    help(exp)


From rolf at roce.be  Wed Apr  6 19:40:29 2016
From: rolf at roce.be (Rolf Camps)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 01:40:29 +0200
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <87wpoaiedl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
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Message-ID: <57059E6D.8070105@roce.be>



Op 07-04-16 om 00:03 schreef Marko Rauhamaa:
> Once you look up an object method, it doesn't have a self argument. The
> self argument is cooked up for the benefit of the function definition in
> the class.
>
> IOW, if I have this class:
>
>      class A:
>          def f(self):
>              print("f")
>
> and this object:
>
>      a = A()
>
> then,
>
>      a.f
>
> is a function that doesn't have a self argument. That function is
> generated on the fly, and it delegates to A.f, providing it with self
> argument.
a.f is not a function, A.f is a function.
a.f is an instance method. The function is not generated on the fly, 
when the method is called, it calls the function A.f with an extra 
argument __self__ (the instance a) inserted before the argument list the 
instance method was called with.
So calling a.f() is a convenient way to write A.f(a)
>
> However, a.f itself is just a function that doesn't accept any
> arguments.
As i wrote, a.f is an instance method not a function. It accepts any 
argument you trow at it, insert 'a' in front of the argument list and 
calls the function A.f with this new argument list.
>
> Defining:
>
>      def f():
>          print("f")
>      a.f = f
>
> simply short-circuits the attribute lookup process; no need to consult
> the class when the attribute (method!) is right there in the object's
> dict.
Here a.f is a function so Python will treat is as a function. When you 
call it, the lookup process will find f in the class instance 
dictionary, discover it's a function and run it with the arguments 
provided. If you would like to use  attributes of the class A or of the 
instance 'a' in f, you would need to hard code it in the function since 
the function f does not know it was called from 'a', an instance of the 
class A.
>
>
> Marko


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Apr  6 19:54:01 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 16:54:01 -0700
Subject: Evaluating error strings for 'unittest' assert methods.
In-Reply-To: <570594A0.1020407@o2.co.uk>
References: <570594A0.1020407@o2.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5705A199.2050905@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/06/2016 03:58 PM, John Pote wrote:
> I have been writing a very useful test script using the standard Python
> 'unittest' module. This works fine and has been a huge help in keeping
> the system I've been writing fully working even when I make changes that
> could break many features of the system. eg major rewrite of the
> interrupt routines. The target system in question is written in 'C' and
> runs on a 50p microcontroller at the end of a serial line.
>
> I like each assert...() to output helpful information when things go
> wrong. So I have put in quite complicated code to generate the error
> string the assert() method uses only when things go wrong. The normal
> case, when everything is working, means that all these error strings are
> constructed only to be discarded immediately when the assert() detects
> the test result is correct and no exception is throw.
>
> To my mind this seems a waste and adding unnecessary delays in the
> running of the whole test script.
>
> So I was wondering if there was some convienient, Python, way of calling
> an assert() method so the error string is only evaluated/constructed if
> the assert() fails and throws an exception. For example,
>
> self.assertEqual( (nBytes,expectedValues), (nBytesRd,valuesRead),
>              """Unexpected reg value.
> Expected values nBytes:%02x (%s)
> """%(nBytes,' '.join( [ "%04x"%v for v in expectedValues] )) +
> "Read values     nBytes:%02x (%s)"%(nBytesRd,' '.join( [ "%04x"%v for v
> in valuesRead] ))
>          )

My first thought is don't sweat it, it probably doesn't matter.  You 
could test this by timing both before and after removing all the custom 
error messages.

If you do want to sweat it -- maybe a custom object that replaces the 
__str__ and __repr__ methods with the code that creates the message?  No 
idea if it would work, but it would look something like:

class DelayedStr(object):  # pesky 2/3 code ;)
     def __init__(self, func):
         self.func = func
     def __str__(self):
         return self.func()

and your assert would look like:


self.assertEqual(
         (nBytes,expectedValues),
         (nBytesRd,valuesRead),
         lambda : """Unexpected reg value.
         Expected values nBytes:%02x (%s)""" %
             (nBytes,' '.join( [ "%04x"%v for v in expectedValues] )) +
             "Read values     nBytes:%02x (%s)"%(nBytesRd,
              ' '.join( [ "%04x"%v for v in valuesRead] )))

Certainly no more readable, but /maybe/ more performant.  (Assuming it 
even works.)

--
~Ethan~


From saxri89 at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 19:58:38 2016
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (Xristos Xristoou)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 16:58:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: import opencv error (DLL load failed)
Message-ID: <d02a07fa-e426-4f5b-b0e2-d06a60eaa9a5@googlegroups.com>

hi

i have windows 10 and python 3.5.1 and i want to install open cv.
first i go to http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#opencv
and download the opencv_python-3.1.0-cp35-none-win_amd64.whl
from command prompt i install with pip.
pip install <my path>\opencv_python-3.1.0-cp35-none-win_amd64.whl
and show me successfuly installed opencv-python-3.1.0.
i look the files in the site-packages and now i have opencv files
cv.py
cv2.cp35-win_amd64.pyd
and more 
opencv.dll files
 

after successfuly installed open python idle i a try to import
cv2 and i take that error massege ..

error massege 

import cv2
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#0>", line 1, in <module>
    import cv2
ImportError: DLL load failed :............

after this error downloaded opencv 3.0 and extracted it.copying cv2.pyd to the site-packages folder and show me again this error massege .

can you tell why?and how to FIX THAT ?



From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 20:42:34 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 10:42:34 +1000
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq3xePc6xa-uJ-C6V3agEoMfayqyobU3SrvsVUEyCqqJA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 5:56 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
<PointedEars at web.de> wrote:
>> Example 1 -- Ligatures:
>>
>> Python3 gets it right
>>>>> ?ag = 1
>>>>> flag
>> 1
>
> Fascinating; confirmed with
>
> | $ python3
> | Python 3.4.4 (default, Jan  5 2016, 15:35:18)
> | [GCC 5.3.1 20160101] on linux
> | [?]
>
> I do not think this is correct, though.  Different Unicode code sequences,
> after normalization, should result in different symbols.
>
>> Whereas haskell gets it wrong:
>> Prelude> let ?ag = 1
>> Prelude> flag
>>
>> <interactive>:3:1: Not in scope: ?flag?
>> Prelude> ?ag
>> 1
>> Prelude>
>
> I think Haskell gets it right here, while Py3k does not.  The ??? is not to
> be decomposed to ?fl?.

Unicode disagrees with you. It is decomposed exactly that way.

>>> unicodedata.normalize("NFKD","?")
'fl'

ChrisA


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Apr  6 20:49:49 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 10:49:49 +1000
Subject: Joining Strings
References: <CAOypoo5YpPLNeobY3uo8o_KjXtfEWcmqffsEUXrqsJ0ACpkBWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85a8l66y4y.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Emeka <emekamicro at gmail.com> writes:

> Hello All,
>
> import urllib.request
> import re
>
> url = 'https://www.everyday.com/

This URL doesn't resolve for me, so I can't reproduce the behaviour.

> I got the below:
> "Coke -  Yala Market Branch""NO. 113 IKU BAKR WAY YALA"""
> But what I need is
>
> 'Coke -  Yala Market Branch NO. 113 IKU BAKR WAY YALA'
>
> How to I achieve the above?

To diagnose the problem, I would recommend dividing it into smaller
problems:

* Get the content from that URL, confirm it is as you expect. Deal with
  it as Unicode text from that point forward.

* Transform the Unicode text somehow to produce output. Compare that
  output against the expected output.

That way you can see at what point the behaviour is not as you expect.
Then, please make a more self-contained example that demonstrates the
behaviour confusing you.

-- 
 \      ?[Entrenched media corporations will] maintain the status quo, |
  `\       or die trying. Either is better than actually WORKING for a |
_o__)                  living.? ?ringsnake.livejournal.com, 2007-11-12 |
Ben Finney



From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 20:59:01 2016
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:59:01 -0400
Subject: ola
In-Reply-To: <SNT406-EAS407388DDCADF292BCAC1AD0C19F0@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT406-EAS407388DDCADF292BCAC1AD0C19F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+zxtkABRXwJ2QW5h13JorvqwvxzmZ9gjPGcrBSorHV73Q@mail.gmail.com>

2016-04-05 20:35 GMT-04:00 majoxd hola <plutito2016 at outlook.es>:
> me podr?an enviar el programa Python spyder para Windows?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Enviado desde Correo de Windows
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

This is an english language list.  And besides, your question I could
send the Python program spyder for Windows? is awfully vague

-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays


From steve at pearwood.info  Wed Apr  6 21:37:50 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 11:37:50 +1000
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
Message-ID: <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 05:56 am, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

> Rustom Mody wrote:

>> So here are some examples to illustrate what I am saying:
>> 
>> Example 1 -- Ligatures:
>> 
>> Python3 gets it right
>>>>> ?ag = 1
>>>>> flag
>> 1

Python identifiers are intentionally normalised to reduce security issues,
or at least confusion and annoyance, due to visually-identical identifiers
being treated as different.

Unicode has technical standards dealing with identifiers:

http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr31/

and visual spoofing and confusables:

http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr39/

I don't believe that CPython goes to the full extreme of checking for mixed
script confusables, but it does partially mitigate the problem by
normalising identifiers.

Unfortunately PEP 3131 leaves a number of questions open. Presumably they
were answered in the implementation, but they aren't documented in the PEP.

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3131/




> Fascinating; confirmed with
> 
> | $ python3
> | Python 3.4.4 (default, Jan  5 2016, 15:35:18)
> | [GCC 5.3.1 20160101] on linux
> | [?]
> 
> I do not think this is correct, though.  Different Unicode code sequences,
> after normalization, should result in different symbols.

I think you are confused about normalisation. By definition, normalising
different Unicode code sequences may result in the same symbols, since that
is what normalisation means.


Consider two distinct strings which nevertheless look identical:

py> a = "\N{LATIN SMALL LETTER U}\N{COMBINING DIAERESIS}"
py> b = "\N{LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS}"
py> a == b
False
py> print(a, b)
? ?


The purpose of normalisation is to turn one into the other:

py> unicodedata.normalize('NFKC', a) == b  # compose 2 code points --> 1
True
py> unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', b) == a  # decompose 1 code point --> 2
True


In the case of the fl ligature, normalisation splits the ligature into
individual 'f' and 'l' code points regardless of whether you compose or
decompose:

py> unicodedata.normalize('NFKC', "?ag") == "flag"
True
py> unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', "?ag") == "flag"
True


That's using the combatability composition form. Using the default
composition form leaves the ligature unchanged.

Note that UTS #39 (security mechanisms) suggests that identifiers should be
normalised using NFKC.

[...]
> I think Haskell gets it right here, while Py3k does not.  The ??? is not
> to be decomposed to ?fl?.

The Unicode consortium seems to disagree with you. Table 1 of UTS #39 (see
link above) includes "Characters that cannot occur in strings normalized to
NFKC" in the Restricted category, that is, characters which should not be
used in identifiers. ? cannot occur in such normalised strings, and so it
is classified as Restricted and should not be used in identifiers.


I'm not entirely sure just how closely Python's identifiers follow the
standard, but I think that the intention is to follow something close to
"UAX31-R4. Equivalent Normalized Identifiers":

http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr31/#R4


[Rustom] 
>> Python gets it wrong
>>>>> a=1
>>>>> A
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>> NameError: name 'A' is not defined
> 
> This is not wrong; it is just different.

I agree with Thomas here. Case-insensitivity is a choice, and I don't think
it is a good choice for programming identifiers. Being able to make case
distinctions between (let's say):

SPAM  # a constant, or at least constant-by-convention
Spam  # a class or type
spam  # an instance


is useful.


[Rustom]
>> With ASCII the problems are minor: Case-distinct identifiers are distinct
>> -- they dont IDENTIFY.
> 
> I do not think this is a problem.
> 
>> This contradicts standard English usage and practice
> 
> No, it does not.


I agree with Thomas here too. Although it is rare for case to make a
distinction in English, it does happen. As the old joke goes:

Capitalisation is the difference between helping my Uncle Jack off a horse,
and helping my uncle jack off a horse.


So even in English, capitalisation can make a semantic difference.




-- 
Steven



From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 21:40:58 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 11:40:58 +1000
Subject: Best Practices for Internal Package Structure
In-Reply-To: <5705655F.8080909@mail.de>
References: <22a2f21d-7fd2-468a-9b6e-184837506157@googlegroups.com>
 <5703185f$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <5703F82A.7020603@mail.de>
 <mailman.83.1459877943.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <57044a48$0$1603$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmr17mv4FsdcvVZbVLa-FKWdVtL7mnJ4YZ5EsDAmsb7Ayg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5705655F.8080909@mail.de>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrEHnERbxiTdz3YC4-pXEse4fP_upKu4eVr3EHaqCAwFg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 5:37 AM, Sven R. Kunze <srkunze at mail.de> wrote:
> On 06.04.2016 01:47, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> Generally, I refactor code not because the files are getting "too
>> large" (for whatever definition of that term you like), but because
>> they're stretching the file's concept. Every file should have a
>> purpose; every piece of code in that file should ideally be supporting
>> exactly that purpose.
>
>
> Well said.
>
> The definition of purpose and concept are blurry, though. So, what is within
> the boundary of a concept is hard to define.

Oh, I never said it was easy to define :) That's the goal, to be sure,
but there are plenty of times when code goes into file X because it's
called by stuff in file X, even if conceptually it might be closer to
file Y. And then when file Z needs it, does it get moved to file Y, or
left where it is? Hard problem.

> @Steven
> You might not understand the purpose of the guideline. That's what makes
> them so valuable. It's hard to get them right and it's hard to understand
> them if you don't have any experience with them.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you saying that the guideline is
valuable precisely because people don't understand its purpose? I can
believe you, in the sense that the guideline becomes a summary of a
whole lot of rules (eg "you may not check in your code if it doesn't
comply with PEP 8" rather than arguing the specifics of why specific
style rules are important), but generally, there should be a
straight-forward explanation. And since this is a question of style,
there's usually going to be arguments on both sides :)

> An attempt of an explanation (which maybe in itself not 100% correct): there
> are two different forces acting on the source code:
>
> 1) make it short and concise (the 2-pages guideline)
> 2) keep conceptually close things together (cf. Chris)
>
> So, there's always a bargaining of what can be put in/removed from a module
> in the first place:
>
> "just these 14 lines, please; we need that feature"
> "but the module already has 310 lines"
> "only this one last one, please; it belongs here"
> "but it's an if-else and another def; nasty nesting and more complexity"
> "hmm, what if we remove those 5 over here? we don't need them anymore"
> "really? then, we can remove 2 superfluous newlines and 2 import lines as
> well"
> "I could even squeeze those 14 lines to 10 using dict comprehensions"
> "that's even more readable; +1 line, that's okay"
>
> Life is full of compromises.

This kind of bargaining sounds like a great way to force compromises
on people. Let's take it up a level: I need you to maintain this
project, but you're not allowed to make it exceed 10K lines of code
across all files. And it's already at 9,994 lines. So if you want to
add code to it, you have to find someplace else to remove code first.
Like all such guidelines, it has some plausible justification (it
prevents software bloat), but this rule can only hurt your project.
What happens when you have fifteen lines of code to add, to cope with
an obscure edge case involving user input? Which of these options do
you pick?

1) Edit your code down to just six lines, cramming everything in as
tightly as possible. To stay within an 80-char limit, you shorten
names and avoid comments. OR...
2) Find fifteen lines of internal API documentation somewhere and
delete it. Everyone should know that stuff by now, and if not, they
can always look back through source control. OR...
3) Find two twenty-line blocks of code that look identical and really
quickly break it out into a function. HA! WIN! And in your haste, you
don't notice that there was a subtle difference between them. OR...
4) Spend three hours working on a file, completely reworking it in a
more compact way, saving 50-100 lines of code, but losing track of
what you were doing, costing you an additional half an hour on your
original job as well.

All of them comply with the arbitrary 10KLOC limit. All of them have
hefty costs in future maintainability. And having a code file size
limit is exactly the same, except that you add a fifth option "find
something to move to another file", which just moves the problem
around a bit. Arbitrary limits might solve one problem, but they tend
to introduce another.

ChrisA


From steve at pearwood.info  Wed Apr  6 21:45:08 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 11:45:08 +1000
Subject: Untrusted code execution
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1459948496.786520.570667177.4C7E8044@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.129.1459948499.32530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5705bba5$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 11:14 pm, Random832 wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 5, 2016, at 21:43, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> As Zooko says, Guido's "best argument is that reducing usability (in
>> terms
>> of forbidding language features, especially module import) and reducing
>> the
>> usefulness of extant library code" would make the resulting interpreter
>> too
>> feeble to be useful.
> 
> You don't have to forbid module import. The sandbox could control what
> modules can be loaded, and what happens when you try to load a module.


Sure, but you do have to forbid import of *arbitrary* modules. One could
include a white list of allowed modules, but it would probably be quite
small.

And you would have to do something about the unfortunate matter that modules
have a reference to the unrestricted __builtins__:

py> os.__builtins__['eval']
<built-in function eval>


And because modules are singletons, it's not just a matter of replacing the
__builtins__ with a more restrictive one, as that would affect trusted
modules outside the sandbox too.



-- 
Steven



From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 21:47:17 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 11:47:17 +1000
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <87r3eik00q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.54.1459840979.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAGgTfkPkgKnugcnRaY1PgCuJfUsKv5Ef__rbhTM_oNpK+HTAfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.133.1459949616.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmreTmW7n5py_2u6B5LEipW4FKernYREwrDEgdqZ9p=fsA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.0.1459952698.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87mvp6lhoy.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1459968263.864845.571030425.6B84D3D8@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqmeK=+fphPMsCes3PS+s2A_DLwO2tQCwg_ORYDuvaKPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.31.1459969253.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3eik00q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmokzCRX8enFh_5FrNYY1bpAhQ1s+m8E7VfkuB6MhKwrTA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 5:30 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
>
>> This is the exact sort of shenanigans that it takes to convert
>> recursion into tail recursion - and in MOST cases, it's very little
>> effort to go from there to explicit while loops. That's why TCE is so
>> infrequently important that it's just not worth the cost - which in
>> this case is damage to tracebacks.
>
> In Python, that is.
>
> In Scheme, you write loops with tail recursion.
>

Yes, in Python. I don't know anything about how you debug code in
Scheme, or what sort of error tracebacks you get, so I can't speak to
the consequences *in Scheme* of TCE. All I know is that infinite
recursion in finite space requires the stack frames to be dropped
completely, which means you can't follow through them in the
traceback. And that's a direction GvR doesn't want Python to go.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 22:07:31 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 12:07:31 +1000
Subject: Untrusted code execution
In-Reply-To: <5705bba5$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1459948496.786520.570667177.4C7E8044@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.129.1459948499.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <5705bba5$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqdBb39QzFJCWd2jFCb7AqiF-vNDqaAH8r1noycq+yL=g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> And you would have to do something about the unfortunate matter that modules
> have a reference to the unrestricted __builtins__:
>
> py> os.__builtins__['eval']
> <built-in function eval>

This *in itself* is blocked by the rule against leading-underscore
attribute lookup. However, if you can get the sys module, the world's
your oyster; and any other module that imports sys will give it to
you:

>>> import os
>>> os.sys
<module 'sys' (built-in)>
>>> codecs.sys
<module 'sys' (built-in)>

Can't monkey-patch that away, and codecs.sys.modules["builtins"] will
give you access to the original builtins. And you can go to any number
of levels, tracing a chain from a white-listed module to the
unrestricted sys.modules. The only modules that would be safe to
whitelist are those that either don't import anything significant (I'm
pretty sure 'math' is safe), or import everything with underscores
("import sys as _sys").

ChrisA


From steve at pearwood.info  Wed Apr  6 22:14:52 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:14:52 +1000
Subject: Evaluating error strings for 'unittest' assert methods.
References: <570594A0.1020407@o2.co.uk>
 <mailman.47.1459985831.1197.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5705c29d$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:58 am, John Pote wrote:

[...]
> I like each assert...() to output helpful information when things go
> wrong. So I have put in quite complicated code to generate the error
> string the assert() method uses only when things go wrong. The normal
> case, when everything is working, means that all these error strings are
> constructed only to be discarded immediately when the assert() detects
> the test result is correct and no exception is throw.
> 
> To my mind this seems a waste and adding unnecessary delays in the
> running of the whole test script.

This sounds like premature optimization. I would be very surprised if this
actually makes much difference to the run time of the test suite, unless
the tests are *really* basic and the error strings *impressively* complex.
Your example below:


> So I was wondering if there was some convienient, Python, way of calling
> an assert() method so the error string is only evaluated/constructed if
> the assert() fails and throws an exception. For example,
> 
> self.assertEqual( (nBytes,expectedValues), (nBytesRd,valuesRead),
>              """Unexpected reg value.
> Expected values nBytes:%02x (%s)
> """%(nBytes,' '.join( [ "%04x"%v for v in expectedValues] )) +
> "Read values     nBytes:%02x (%s)"%(nBytesRd,' '.join( [ "%04x"%v for v
> in valuesRead] ))
>          )

doesn't look too complicated too me. So my *guess* is that you are worried
over a tiny proportion of your actual runtime. Obviously I haven't seen
your code, but thinking about my own test suites, I would be shocked if it
was as high as 1% of the total. But I might be wrong.

You might try running the profiler over your test suite and see if it gives
you any useful information, but I suspect not.

Otherwise -- and I realise that this is a lot of work -- I'd consider making
a copy of your test script, then go through the copy and replace every
single one of the error messages with the same short string, say, "x". Now
run the two versions, repeatedly, and time how long they take.

On Linux, I would do something like this (untested):


time python -m unittest test_mymodule > /dev/null 2>&1


the intent being to ignore the overhead of actual printing any error
messages to the screen, and just seeing the execution time. Run that (say)
ten times, and pick the *smallest* runtime. Now do it again with the
modified tests:

time python -m unittest test_mymodule_without_messages > /dev/null 2>&1


My expectation is that if your unit tests do anything like a significant
amount of processing, the difference caused by calculating a few extra
error messages will be insignificant.



But, having said that, what version of Python are you using? Because the
unittest module in Python 3 is *significantly* enhanced and prints much
more detailed error messages without any effort on your part at all.

https://docs.python.org/3/library/unittest.html

For example, starting in Python 3.1, assertEqual() on two strings will
display a multi-line diff of the two strings if the test fails. Likewise,
there are type-specific tests for lists, dicts, etc. which are
automatically called by assertEqual, and the default error message contains
a lot more information than the Python 2 version does.


If you're stuck with Python 2, I *think* that the new improved unittest
module is backported as unittest2:


https://pypi.python.org/pypi/unittest2



-- 
Steven



From random832 at fastmail.com  Wed Apr  6 23:40:53 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 23:40:53 -0400
Subject: Untrusted code execution
In-Reply-To: <5705bba5$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1459948496.786520.570667177.4C7E8044@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.129.1459948499.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <5705bba5$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1460000453.4037177.571407849.7AD628D6@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016, at 21:45, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> And you would have to do something about the unfortunate matter that
> modules
> have a reference to the unrestricted __builtins__:
> 
> py> os.__builtins__['eval']
> <built-in function eval>

Well, I thought that the solution being discussed uses AST to generally
forbid accessing attributes beginning with _ (you could also implement a
whitelist there)

> And because modules are singletons, it's not just a matter of replacing
> the
> __builtins__ with a more restrictive one, as that would affect trusted
> modules outside the sandbox too.

There's nothing actually preventing creating a module with the same name
as a "real" one, not registered in sys.modules, and having it in the
sandbox's sys.modules (the sandbox's sys module itself being a fake
module) to be imported by the sandbox's __import__.

__import__ doesn't even have to return a module - you could return some
other object, maybe one that proxies whitelisted name accesses to the
real module.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Apr  7 00:48:25 2016
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:48:25 +1000
Subject: Untrusted code execution
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1459948496.786520.570667177.4C7E8044@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.129.1459948499.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <5705bba5$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1460000453.4037177.571407849.7AD628D6@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.60.1460000456.1197.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5705e69a$0$2821$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>

On Thursday 07 April 2016 13:40, Random832 wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016, at 21:45, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> And you would have to do something about the unfortunate matter that
>> modules
>> have a reference to the unrestricted __builtins__:
>> 
>> py> os.__builtins__['eval']
>> <built-in function eval>
> 
> Well, I thought that the solution being discussed uses AST to generally
> forbid accessing attributes beginning with _ (you could also implement a
> whitelist there)


Sure, but I'm just demonstrating that the unrestricted builtins are just one 
attribute lookup away. And as Chris points out, if you have (say) the os 
module, then:

magic = os.sys.modules[
    ''.join(chr(i-1) for i in (96,96,99,118,106,109,117,106,111,116,96,96))
    ][''.join(chr(i+17) for i in (84,101,80,91))]


and that's Game Over.


It's not that this necessarily can't be done, but that it's sufficiently 
hard that very few people are willing to tackle it, and those who are, even 
fewer have come even close to a working restricted Python. PyPy has a 
sandbox, but I believe that relies on OS-level features like jails, and I 
don't really know how well it works.

The problem with sandboxing Python is that it's a game of cat and mouse: you 
eliminate one hole, and then wait for somebody to publish the next hole, 
then eliminate that, and so on. Will this process converge on a useful 
subset of Python? Perhaps. Will it happen soon? Even more doubtful.

Nobody says that its impossible. Only that its hard, real hard, and probably 
much harder than anyone thinks.



-- 
Steve



From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Thu Apr  7 01:01:20 2016
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 08:01:20 +0300
Subject: Joining Strings
References: <CAOypoo5YpPLNeobY3uo8o_KjXtfEWcmqffsEUXrqsJ0ACpkBWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.51.1459989021.1197.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lf5oa9mt3kv.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Emeka writes:

> Hello All,
>
> import urllib.request
> import re
>
> url = 'https://www.everyday.com/
>
>
>
> req = urllib.request.Request(url)
> resp = urllib.request.urlopen(req)
> respData = resp.read()
>
>
> paragraphs = re.findall(r'\[(.*?)\]',str(respData))
> for eachP in paragraphs:
>     print("".join(eachP.split(',')[1:-2]))
>     print("\n")
>
>
>
> I got the below:
> "Coke -  Yala Market Branch""NO. 113 IKU BAKR WAY YALA"""
> But what I need is
>
> 'Coke -  Yala Market Branch NO. 113 IKU BAKR WAY YALA'
>
> How to I achieve the above?

A couple of things you could do to understand your problem and work
around it: Change your code to print(eachP). Change your "".join to
"!".join to see where the commas were. Experiment with data of that form
in the REPL. Sometimes it's good to print repr(datum) instead of datum,
though not in this case.

But are you trying to extract and parse paragraphs from a JSON response?
Do not use regex for that at all. Use json.load or json.loads to parse
it properly, and access the relevant data by indexing:

x = json.loads('{"foo":[["Weather Forecast","It\'s Rain"],[]]}')

x ==> {'foo': [['Weather Forecast', "It's Rain"], []]}

x['foo'] ==> [['Weather Forecast', "It's Rain"], []]

x['foo'][0] ==> ['Weather Forecast', "It's Rain"]


From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Apr  7 02:30:58 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 09:30:58 +0300
Subject: Promoting Python
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAGgTfkPkgKnugcnRaY1PgCuJfUsKv5Ef__rbhTM_oNpK+HTAfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.133.1459949616.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidnMzeh_qKXBCikrb8T7Mp39+7ERx3QbEf1c1_+NSSaxwA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1459968672.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpoak0f7.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidnWyAxZ-pesgbQ87hmEWEWj27CA8ZJCAruk3L1=H_QRVw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.35.1459971706.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87mvp6jyoi.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidmyUEenonFLmUs0jGBCbwatBVhQJiVtsCEYTCSX0Tz1aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.39.1459974039.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87egaijwuy.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzid=5eNxPOFm1zDe_wXSbW_HM1trO-1YxrpA7qrTQ0p9AiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1459978690.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpoaiedl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <57059E6D.8070105@roce.be>
 <mailman.56.1459992022.1197.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87r3eihqvx.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Rolf Camps <rolf at roce.be>:

> Op 07-04-16 om 00:03 schreef Marko Rauhamaa:
>> IOW, if I have this class:
>>
>>      class A:
>>          def f(self):
>>              print("f")
>>
>> and this object:
>>
>>      a = A()
>>
>> then,
>>
>>      a.f
>>
>> is a function that doesn't have a self argument. That function is
>> generated on the fly, and it delegates to A.f, providing it with self
>> argument.
> a.f is not a function, A.f is a function.
> a.f is an instance method. The function is not generated on the fly,
> when the method is called, it calls the function A.f with an extra
> argument __self__ (the instance a) inserted before the argument list the
> instance method was called with.

What you call an instance method *is* a function, meaning it is bound to
a callable object that in almost no outward way differs from any other
function.

It is generated on the fly:

   >>> id(a.f)
   140059683793288
   >>> id(a.f)
   140059683793864
   >>> a.f is a.f
   False

You are correct that the generated function is a simple trampoline that
supplies a self argument and delegates to A.f.

Or:

   When a class attribute reference (for class C, say) would yield a
   class method object, it is transformed into an instance method object
   whose __self__ attributes is C.
   <URL: https://docs.python.org/3/reference/datamodel.html?highlight=__g
   etattr__#the-standard-type-hierarchy>

So the only difference between a regular function and an instance method
object is the fact that the latter has a __self__ attribute set.

Although even that small difference can be paved over:

    def g():
        print("g")
    g.__self__ = a
    a.f = g


Marko


From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Apr  7 02:36:06 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 09:36:06 +0300
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87mvp6hqnd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:

> So even in English, capitalisation can make a semantic difference.

It can even make a pronunciation difference: polish vs Polish.


Marko


From cts.private.yahoo at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 02:46:28 2016
From: cts.private.yahoo at gmail.com (Charles T. Smith)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 06:46:28 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: recursive methods require implementing a stack?
References: <ne3r48$bk8$1@dont-email.me> <ne3rhv$e1e$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ne4vo4$htk$1@dont-email.me>

On Wed, 06 Apr 2016 20:28:47 +0000, Rob Gaddi wrote:

> Charles T. Smith wrote:
> 
>> I just tried to write a recursive method in python - am I right that local
>> variables are only lexically local scoped, so sub-instances have the same
>> ones?  Is there a way out of that?  Do I have to push and pop my own simulated
>> stack frame entry? 
> 
> You have been badly misled.  Python local variables are frame local, and
> recursion just works.


Well, I probably stumbled astray due to my own stupidity, can't blame anybody
of having misled me...  ;)

So it's a bug in my program!  Good news!  Thank you. 



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Apr  7 02:51:05 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 23:51:05 -0700
Subject: Unacceptable behavior
Message-ID: <57060359.1050002@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/05/2016 01:05 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

 > | >>> from email import ID10T

Thomas, as has been pointed out to you in previous threads it is not 
necessary to be rude to be heard.

You are hereby placed in moderation for the Python List mailing list.

Every one else:  If you see offensive posts from Thomas on the usenet 
side, please just ignore them.  I have no desire to see his posts in 
your replies.

--
~Ethan~
Python List Owners


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 02:56:18 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 00:56:18 -0600
Subject: Promoting Python
In-Reply-To: <87r3eihqvx.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <ne2qd3$8rg$1@dont-email.me> <87h9ffgdtr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAGgTfkPkgKnugcnRaY1PgCuJfUsKv5Ef__rbhTM_oNpK+HTAfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.133.1459949616.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidnMzeh_qKXBCikrb8T7Mp39+7ERx3QbEf1c1_+NSSaxwA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1459968672.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpoak0f7.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidnWyAxZ-pesgbQ87hmEWEWj27CA8ZJCAruk3L1=H_QRVw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.35.1459971706.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87mvp6jyoi.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidmyUEenonFLmUs0jGBCbwatBVhQJiVtsCEYTCSX0Tz1aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.39.1459974039.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87egaijwuy.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzid=5eNxPOFm1zDe_wXSbW_HM1trO-1YxrpA7qrTQ0p9AiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1459978690.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpoaiedl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <57059E6D.8070105@roce.be> <mailman.56.1459992022.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3eihqvx.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmk0-v5b1-DQ-D2bwebzrHng3bYWBBUTobXrNM6-oOOsw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 12:30 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Or:
>
>    When a class attribute reference (for class C, say) would yield a
>    class method object, it is transformed into an instance method object
>    whose __self__ attributes is C.
>    <URL: https://docs.python.org/3/reference/datamodel.html?highlight=__g
>    etattr__#the-standard-type-hierarchy>
>
> So the only difference between a regular function and an instance method
> object is the fact that the latter has a __self__ attribute set.
>
> Although even that small difference can be paved over:
>
>     def g():
>         print("g")
>     g.__self__ = a
>     a.f = g

What is this example supposed to accomplish?  Functions don't merely
not have a __self__ attribute set. The __self__ attribute has no
meaning on a function.

Let's take a different example.


class Dialog(Window):

    def __init__(self, parent, title, ok_callback):
        super().__init__(parent, title)
        self._ok_callback = ok_callback
        self._ok_button = Button(self, 'Ok')
        self._ok_button.bind(self._ok_callback)

def f(event):
    print("Hello world")

dialog = Dialog(None, "Example", f)
dialog.show()


Are you suggesting that dialog._ok_callback should be considered a
method of Dialog, despite the fact that the implementation of Dialog
and the implementation of f are entirely unrelated? If so, then I
think that most OOP practitioners would disagree with you.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Apr  7 03:08:31 2016
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 00:08:31 -0700
Subject: Untrusted code execution
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <87r3ejpz6o.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <slrnng8aq5.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <87inztq4k0.fsf@nightsong.com>

Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> writes:
>> That string decodes to "__private".
> Yes, and? ... The namespace
> I was suggesting didn't provide access to any objects which have a
> 'get()' method which would access attributes.

I see, I forgot that getattr is a function, not an object method.
Though, now you've got the problem that there isn't enough capability
left to do much interesting.  I used web.py for a while, that had a
complete interpeter for a sandboxed Python-like language written in
Python itself.  That's a brutal way to deal with the problem, and it had
annoyances, but it seemed to work.  You presumably also want to limit
CPU usage etc.  

Geordi (the C++ irc bot) now just launches the user script in a Docker
container, I think.  Before that it had some fancier sandboxing
approaches.

Lua is supposed to be easy to embed and sandbox.  It might be
interesting to write Python bindings for the Lua interpreter sometime.


From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Apr  7 03:19:52 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 10:19:52 +0300
Subject: Promoting Python
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidnMzeh_qKXBCikrb8T7Mp39+7ERx3QbEf1c1_+NSSaxwA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1459968672.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpoak0f7.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidnWyAxZ-pesgbQ87hmEWEWj27CA8ZJCAruk3L1=H_QRVw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.35.1459971706.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87mvp6jyoi.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidmyUEenonFLmUs0jGBCbwatBVhQJiVtsCEYTCSX0Tz1aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.39.1459974039.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87egaijwuy.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzid=5eNxPOFm1zDe_wXSbW_HM1trO-1YxrpA7qrTQ0p9AiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1459978690.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpoaiedl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <57059E6D.8070105@roce.be>
 <mailman.56.1459992022.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3eihqvx.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidmk0-v5b1-DQ-D2bwebzrHng3bYWBBUTobXrNM6-oOOsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.3.1460012220.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87a8l5j36v.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com>:

> Let's take a different example.
>
> class Dialog(Window):
>
>     def __init__(self, parent, title, ok_callback):
>         super().__init__(parent, title)
>         self._ok_callback = ok_callback
>         self._ok_button = Button(self, 'Ok')
>         self._ok_button.bind(self._ok_callback)
>
> def f(event):
>     print("Hello world")
>
> dialog = Dialog(None, "Example", f)
> dialog.show()
>
> Are you suggesting that dialog._ok_callback should be considered a
> method of Dialog, despite the fact that the implementation of Dialog
> and the implementation of f are entirely unrelated? If so, then I
> think that most OOP practitioners would disagree with you.

First, terminology disputes are pointless.

No, I would never call f a method of Dialog. I might call it a method of
dialog, though.

A method is simply a callable attribute:

   Procedures in object-oriented programming are known as methods
   <URL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_programming>

(Now, in CLOS, GOOPS etc, methods are not attributes at all, but that's
another story.)


Marko


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 03:25:56 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 07:25:56 +0000
Subject: recursive methods require implementing a stack?
In-Reply-To: <ne4vo4$htk$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ne3r48$bk8$1@dont-email.me> <ne3rhv$e1e$1@dont-email.me>
 <ne4vo4$htk$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkOHXCsyRsa2ea5difNVJQ6uQxULw2HE36aw6Sac3Yx6MQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016, 7:51 AM Charles T. Smith <cts.private.yahoo at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Wed, 06 Apr 2016 20:28:47 +0000, Rob Gaddi wrote:
>
> > Charles T. Smith wrote:
> >
> >> I just tried to write a recursive method in python - am I right that
> local
> >> variables are only lexically local scoped, so sub-instances have the
> same
> >> ones?  Is there a way out of that?  Do I have to push and pop my own
> simulated
> >> stack frame entry?
> >
> > You have been badly misled.  Python local variables are frame local, and
> > recursion just works.
>
>
> Well, I probably stumbled astray due to my own stupidity, can't blame
> anybody
> of having misled me...  ;)
>
> So it's a bug in my program!  Good news!  Thank you.
>

I'm guessing you are passing a list or dict to the recursive call and
discovering that the object is passed rather than a copy. Note that this is
not pass-by-reference, but "pass by object", for your Googling.

>


From manolo at austrohungaro.com  Thu Apr  7 03:47:59 2016
From: manolo at austrohungaro.com (Manolo =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mart=EDnez?=)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:47:59 +0200
Subject: ola
In-Reply-To: <CAPM-O+zxtkABRXwJ2QW5h13JorvqwvxzmZ9gjPGcrBSorHV73Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT406-EAS407388DDCADF292BCAC1AD0C19F0@phx.gbl>
 <CAPM-O+zxtkABRXwJ2QW5h13JorvqwvxzmZ9gjPGcrBSorHV73Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160407074759.GA28334@beagle.localdomain>

On 04/06/16 at 08:59pm, Joel Goldstick wrote:
> 2016-04-05 20:35 GMT-04:00 majoxd hola <plutito2016 at outlook.es>:
> > me podr?an enviar el programa Python spyder para Windows?
> >
 
> This is an english language list.  And besides, your question I could
> send the Python program spyder for Windows? is awfully vague

They are asking for the list to send them spyder.

Hola, esta lista es en ingl?s. Te ir? mejor en la lista de python en
espa?ol, aqu?: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-es

Respecto a Spyder, creo que la mejor manera de obtenerlo es a trav?s de
Anaconda: https://www.continuum.io/downloads. Pero no soy usuario de
Windows ni de Spyder.

Manolo


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Apr  7 04:05:32 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:05:32 +1000
Subject: Unacceptable behavior
References: <57060359.1050002@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <8560vt7sj7.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> writes:

> You are hereby placed in moderation for the Python List mailing list.

Thanks for taking action to maintain a healthy community, Ethan.

-- 
 \       ?I don't know anything about music. In my line you don't have |
  `\                             to.? ?Elvis Aaron Presley (1935?1977) |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From daiyueweng at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 04:47:34 2016
From: daiyueweng at gmail.com (Daiyue Weng)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:47:34 +0100
Subject: read a file and remove Mojibake chars
Message-ID: <CAF_EDkstLUt0hQ2RwQXH2LfvVOhtcmSVs910uJMd0i+2SkY5qA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, when I read a file, the file string contains Mojibake chars at the
beginning, the code is like,

file_str = open(file_path, 'r', encoding='utf-8').read()
print(repr(open(file_path, 'r', encoding='utf-8').read())

part of the string (been printing) containing Mojibake chars is like,

  '??\n "name": "__NAME__"'

I tried to remove the non utf-8 chars using the code,

def read_config_file(fname):
    with open(fname, "r", encoding='utf-8') as fp:
        for line in fp:
            line = line.strip()
            line = line.decode('utf-8','ignore').encode("utf-8")

    return fp.read()

but it doesn't work, so how to remove the Mojibakes in this case?

many thanks


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Thu Apr  7 04:49:23 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 10:49:23 +0200
Subject: deque is not a subclass of Sequence.
Message-ID: <57061F13.90100@rece.vub.ac.be>

Playing around with the collections and collections.abc modules in
python3.4 I stumbled upon the following: >>> from collections.abc import
Sequence >>> from collections import deque >>> isinstance(list(),
Sequence) True >>> isinstance(deque(), Sequence) False >>> This seems
strange to me. As far as I understand, the documentation indicates there
is no reason why deque shouldn't be a subclass of Sequence. Am I missing
something or can this be considered a bug? -- Antoon.



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 04:58:39 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 01:58:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unacceptable behavior
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2.1460011819.2253.python-list@python.org>
References: <57060359.1050002@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.2.1460011819.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aee2ac8e-0d4a-4d5b-b980-c8b08166e6b3@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 12:20:32 PM UTC+5:30, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 04/05/2016 01:05 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> 
>  > | >>> from email import ID10T
> 
> Thomas, as has been pointed out to you in previous threads it is not 
> necessary to be rude to be heard.
> 
> You are hereby placed in moderation for the Python List mailing list.
> 
> Every one else:  If you see offensive posts from Thomas on the usenet 
> side, please just ignore them.  I have no desire to see his posts in 
> your replies.
> 
> --
> ~Ethan~
> Python List Owners

Thanks for making the list more pleasant at the expense of increasing work for
yourself


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Thu Apr  7 05:00:33 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 11:00:33 +0200
Subject: deque is not a subclass of Sequence.
In-Reply-To: <57061F13.90100@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <57061F13.90100@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <570621B1.6040408@rece.vub.ac.be>

Second tryal, I hope the formatting doesn't get messed up now

Playing around with the collections and collections.abc modules in
python3.4 I stumbled upon the following:

>>> from collections.abc import Sequence
>>> from collections import deque
>>> isinstance(list(), Sequence)
True
>>> isinstance(deque(), Sequence)
False

This seems strange to me. As far as I understand, the
documentation indicates there is no reason why deque
shouldn't be a subclass of Sequence.

Am I missing something or can this be considered a bug?

-- 
Antoon.




From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr  7 05:12:26 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 11:12:26 +0200
Subject: deque is not a subclass of Sequence.
References: <57061F13.90100@rece.vub.ac.be> <570621B1.6040408@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <ne589r$m1l$1@ger.gmane.org>

Antoon Pardon wrote:

> Second tryal, I hope the formatting doesn't get messed up now
> 
> Playing around with the collections and collections.abc modules in
> python3.4 I stumbled upon the following:
> 
>>>> from collections.abc import Sequence
>>>> from collections import deque
>>>> isinstance(list(), Sequence)
> True
>>>> isinstance(deque(), Sequence)
> False
> 
> This seems strange to me. As far as I understand, the
> documentation indicates there is no reason why deque
> shouldn't be a subclass of Sequence.
> 
> Am I missing something or can this be considered a bug?

>>> from collections import deque
>>> from collections.abc import Sequence
>>> [name for name in set(dir(Sequence)) - set(dir(deque)) if not 
name.startswith("_")]
['index']

So the index() method seems to be what is missing.



From rolf at roce.be  Thu Apr  7 05:23:01 2016
From: rolf at roce.be (Rolf Camps)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 11:23:01 +0200
Subject: deque is not a subclass of Sequence.
In-Reply-To: <ne589r$m1l$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <57061F13.90100@rece.vub.ac.be> <570621B1.6040408@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <ne589r$m1l$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <570626F5.9070400@roce.be>



On 2016-04-07 11:12, Peter Otten wrote:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>> Second tryal, I hope the formatting doesn't get messed up now
>>
>> Playing around with the collections and collections.abc modules in
>> python3.4 I stumbled upon the following:
>>
>>>>> from collections.abc import Sequence
>>>>> from collections import deque
>>>>> isinstance(list(), Sequence)
>> True
>>>>> isinstance(deque(), Sequence)
>> False
>>
>> This seems strange to me. As far as I understand, the
>> documentation indicates there is no reason why deque
>> shouldn't be a subclass of Sequence.
>>
>> Am I missing something or can this be considered a bug?
>>>> from collections import deque
>>>> from collections.abc import Sequence
>>>> [name for name in set(dir(Sequence)) - set(dir(deque)) if not
> name.startswith("_")]
> ['index']
>
> So the index() method seems to be what is missing.
>
The index method was added to the deque object in Python 3.5.

Python 3.5.1 (default, ...)
[GCC ...] on linux
 >>> import collections
 >>> isinstance(collections.deque(), collections.abc.Sequence)
True



From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Thu Apr  7 05:25:00 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 11:25:00 +0200
Subject: deque is not a subclass of Sequence.
In-Reply-To: <ne589r$m1l$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <57061F13.90100@rece.vub.ac.be> <570621B1.6040408@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <ne589r$m1l$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <5706276C.20706@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 07-04-16 om 11:12 schreef Peter Otten:
>
>>>> from collections import deque
>>>> from collections.abc import Sequence
>>>> [name for name in set(dir(Sequence)) - set(dir(deque)) if not 
> name.startswith("_")]
> ['index']
>
> So the index() method seems to be what is missing.

the index() method seems to be added in 3.5, so is deque
a subclass of Sequence in 3.5?

-- 
Antoon. 



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Apr  7 05:40:46 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 19:40:46 +1000
Subject: read a file and remove Mojibake chars
References: <CAF_EDkstLUt0hQ2RwQXH2LfvVOhtcmSVs910uJMd0i+2SkY5qA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <851t6h7o4h.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Daiyue Weng <daiyueweng at gmail.com> writes:

> Hi, when I read a file, the file string contains Mojibake chars at the
> beginning

You are explicitly setting an encoding to read the file; that is good,
since Python should not guess the input encoding.

The reason it's good is because the issue, of knowing the correct text
encoding, is dealt with immediately. I am guessing the text encoding may
be not as you expect.

Are you certain the text encoding is ?utf-8?? Can you verify that with
whatever created the file ? what text encoding does it use to write that
file?

-- 
 \      ?Advertising is the price companies pay for being unoriginal.? |
  `\                ?Yves B?har, _New York Times_ interview 2010-12-30 |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr  7 05:41:10 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 11:41:10 +0200
Subject: deque is not a subclass of Sequence.
References: <57061F13.90100@rece.vub.ac.be> <570621B1.6040408@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <ne589r$m1l$1@ger.gmane.org> <5706276C.20706@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <ne59vn$ili$1@ger.gmane.org>

Antoon Pardon wrote:

> Op 07-04-16 om 11:12 schreef Peter Otten:
>>
>>>>> from collections import deque
>>>>> from collections.abc import Sequence
>>>>> [name for name in set(dir(Sequence)) - set(dir(deque)) if not
>> name.startswith("_")]
>> ['index']
>>
>> So the index() method seems to be what is missing.
> 
> the index() method seems to be added in 3.5, so is deque
> a subclass of Sequence in 3.5?

Yes, according to the only 3.5 interpreter I have currently available:

python3.5
Python 3.5.0b2+ (3.5:9aee273bf8b7+, Jun 25 2015, 09:25:29) 
[GCC 4.8.4] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from collections import deque
>>> from collections.abc import Sequence
>>> isinstance(deque(), Sequence)
True




From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr  7 05:49:33 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 11:49:33 +0200
Subject: read a file and remove Mojibake chars
References: <CAF_EDkstLUt0hQ2RwQXH2LfvVOhtcmSVs910uJMd0i+2SkY5qA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ne5aff$tre$1@ger.gmane.org>

Daiyue Weng wrote:

> Hi, when I read a file, the file string contains Mojibake chars at the
> beginning, the code is like,
> 
> file_str = open(file_path, 'r', encoding='utf-8').read()
> print(repr(open(file_path, 'r', encoding='utf-8').read())
> 
> part of the string (been printing) containing Mojibake chars is like,
> 
>   '??\n "name": "__NAME__"'
> 
> I tried to remove the non utf-8 chars using the code,
> 
> def read_config_file(fname):
>     with open(fname, "r", encoding='utf-8') as fp:
>         for line in fp:
>             line = line.strip()
>             line = line.decode('utf-8','ignore').encode("utf-8")
> 
>     return fp.read()
> 
> but it doesn't work, so how to remove the Mojibakes in this case?

I'd first investigate if the file can correctly be decoded using an encoding 
other than UTF-8, but if it's really hopeless and your best bet is to ignore 
all non-ascii characters try

def read_config_file(fname):
    with open(fname, "r", encoding="ascii", errors="ignore") as f:
        return f.read()



From inya.ivano at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 06:07:47 2016
From: inya.ivano at gmail.com (Inya Ivano)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 03:07:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: join_paired_ends.py: error: option -f: file does not exist
Message-ID: <e3227952-6ae3-41b5-9d5f-1ea2f18bbd81@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I've been having trouble with running my files:

>join_paired_ends.py -f /home/qiime/Documents/Aleurone/1101-Pl1-A1_S193_L001_R2_001.fastq.gz -r /home/qiime/Documents/Aleurone/1101-Pl1-A1_S193_L001_R1_001.fastq.gz -o /home/qiime/Documents/Aleurone/Joined_1101

>join_paired_ends.py: error: option -f: file does not exist: '/home/qiime/Documents/Aleurone/1101-Pl1-A1_S193_L001_R2_001.fastq.gz'

What I'm not sure about is whether there's a problem with the script or the virtualmachine settings, I'm using the latest Oracle VM VirtualBox version 5.0.16 edition. 

Inya











From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Apr  7 06:26:26 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 11:26:26 +0100
Subject: deque is not a subclass of Sequence.
In-Reply-To: <5706276C.20706@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <57061F13.90100@rece.vub.ac.be> <570621B1.6040408@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <ne589r$m1l$1@ger.gmane.org> <5706276C.20706@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <ne5cko$2qk$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 07/04/2016 10:25, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
> the index() method seems to be added in 3.5, so is deque
> a subclass of Sequence in 3.5?
>

Yes, this http://bugs.python.org/issue23704 refers.

Use the builtin 
https://docs.python.org/3/library/functions.html#issubclass to try it.

 >>> issubclass(deque, Sequence)
True

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From Frantisek.Fridrich at rubena.cgs.cz  Thu Apr  7 07:02:46 2016
From: Frantisek.Fridrich at rubena.cgs.cz (Frantisek.Fridrich at rubena.cgs.cz)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 13:02:46 +0200
Subject: Python, Linux, default search places.
Message-ID: <OF37B3F72C.B36EA0F5-ONC1257F8E.003C8645-C1257F8E.003CADC0@rubena.cz>

Hello.

I run a third party program that can use a system installation of Python. 
I have to modify environment variables: 
PYTHONPATH,
PATH,
LD_LIBRARY_PATH.

All these environment variables are empty at the beginning but Python uses 
a default or initial places to search for modules, libraries or 
executables.

Q1. Could anybody tell me where I could find default search places for 
environment variables PYTHONPATH, PATH, LD_LIBRARY_PATH?

OS: SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 11. 
HW: HP DL160 Gen8 SFF CTO.
Python 2.6.

Frantisek


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Thu Apr  7 08:05:33 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 14:05:33 +0200
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
Message-ID: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>

I am looking at my avltree module for converting it to
python3.

One of the things that trouble me here is how python3 no
longer has cmp and how things have to be of "compatible"
type in order to be comparable.

So in python2 it wasn't a problem to have a tree with
numbers and strings as keys. In python3 that will not
be so evident.

In python2 descending the tree would only involve at
most one expensive comparison, because using cmp would
codify that comparison into an integer which would then
be cheap to compare with 0. Now in python3, I may need
to do two expensive comparisons, because there is no
__cmp__ method, to make such a codefication.

Is there a way to work around these limitations or
should I resign myself to working within them?

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Thu Apr  7 08:13:02 2016
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 12:13:02 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Untrusted code execution
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <slrnngcjsj.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>

On 2016-04-06, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 03:48 am, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 3:26 AM, Jon Ribbens
>> <jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> wrote:
>>> The received wisdom is that restricted code execution in Python is
>>> an insolubly hard problem, but it looks a bit like my 7-line example
>>> above disproves this theory, 
>
> Jon's 7-line example doesn't come even close to providing restricted code
> execution in Python. What it provides is a restricted subset of expression
> evaluation, which is *much* easier.

It's true that I was using eval(), but I don't think that actually
fundamentally changes the game. Almost exactly the same sanitisation
method can be used to make exec() code safe. ("import" for example
does not work because there is no "__import__" in the provided
builtins, but even if it did work it could be trivially disallowed by
searching for ast.Import and ast.ImportFrom nodes. "with" must be
disallowed because otherwise __exit__ can be used to get a frame
object.)

> It's barely more powerful than the ast.safe_eval function.

I think you mean ast.literal_eval(), and you're misremembering.
That function isn't even a calculator, it won't even work out
"2*2" for you. It (almost) literally just parses literals ;-)

> [Jon again]
>>> provided you choose carefully what you 
>>> provide in your restricted __builtins__ - but people who knows more
>>> than me about Python seem to have thought about this problem for
>>> longer than I have and come up with the opposite conclusion so I'm
>>> curious what I'm missing.
>
> You're missing that they're trying to allow enough Python functionality to
> run useful scripts (not just evaluate a few arithmetic expressions), but
> without allowing the script to break out of the restricted environment and
> do things which aren't permitted.

Hmm, I'm not missing that, I even explicitly mentioned it previously.
I think you're also missing that eval() can do a very great deal more
than just "arithmetic expressions".

> For example, check out Tav's admirable work some years ago on trying to
> allow Python code to read but not write files:
>
> http://tav.espians.com/a-challenge-to-break-python-security.html

Indeed, I have read that and the follow-ups. He was again making it
hard for himself by trying to allow execution of completely arbitrary
code, and still almost every way to escape relied on "_" attributes
(or him missing the obvious point that you can't check a string is
safe by doing "if foo == 'blah'" if "foo" might be a subtype of
str with a malicious __eq__ method).

> You should also read Guido's comments on capabilities:
>
> http://neopythonic.blogspot.com.au/2009/03/capabilities-for-python.html

Thanks, that's interesting.

> As Zooko says, Guido's "best argument is that reducing usability (in terms
> of forbidding language features, especially module import) and reducing the
> usefulness of extant library code" would make the resulting interpreter too
> feeble to be useful.

Well, no. It makes it too feeble to be used as a generic programming
language. But there is a whole other class of uses for which it would
still be very useful - making very configurable or dynamic systems,
for example. I don't know, imagine github allowed you to upload
restricted-Python code that could be used as a server-side commit
hook, to take a completely random example, or you could upload code
that would generate reports or data for graphing.

> Look at what you've done: you've restricted the entire world of
> Python down to, effectively, a calculator and a few string methods.

Again, no not really. You've tuples, sets, lists, dictionaries,
lambdas, generator and list expressions, etc. And although I made my
example __builtins__ very restricted indeed, that was just because
I'm asking about the basic principle of the idea. If the idea is
ok then the builtins can be gone through one by one and added if
they're safe.

> All the obvious, and even not-so-obvious, attack tools are gone:
> eval, exec, getattr, type, __import__.

Indeed. The fundamental point is that we must not allow the attacker
to have access to any of those things, or to gain access by using any
of the tools which we have provided. I think this is not an impossible
problem.

> I think this approach is promising enough that Jon should take it to a few
> other places for comments, to try to get more eyeballs. Stackoverflow and
> Reddit's /r/python, perhaps. 

I'll post some example code on github in a bit and see what people
think.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 08:22:08 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 22:22:08 +1000
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:05 PM, Antoon Pardon
<antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
> I am looking at my avltree module for converting it to
> python3.
>
> One of the things that trouble me here is how python3 no
> longer has cmp and how things have to be of "compatible"
> type in order to be comparable.
>
> So in python2 it wasn't a problem to have a tree with
> numbers and strings as keys. In python3 that will not
> be so evident.
>
> In python2 descending the tree would only involve at
> most one expensive comparison, because using cmp would
> codify that comparison into an integer which would then
> be cheap to compare with 0. Now in python3, I may need
> to do two expensive comparisons, because there is no
> __cmp__ method, to make such a codefication.
>
> Is there a way to work around these limitations or
> should I resign myself to working within them?

First off, what does it actually *mean* to have a tree with numbers
and keys as strings? Are they ever equal? Are all integers deemed
lower than all strings? Something else?

Once you've figured out a sane definition, you can codify it one way
or another. For instance, if an integer is equal to a string
representing its digits, all you need to do is call str() on all keys.
Or if you want something like Python 2, where objects of different
types are sorted according to the names of the types, use this:

def keyify(obj):
    return (type(obj).__name__, obj)

All type names will be strings, so they're comparable. Only if the
type names are the same will the objects themselves be compared.
Alternatively, if the *only* types you handle are numbers and strings,
you could use this:

def keyify(obj):
    return (isinstance(obj, str), obj)

which lets all numbers group together, such that 1 < 2.0 < 3 as you'd
normally expect. All strings will be greater than all non-strings.

There's no __cmp__ method, but you could easily craft your own
compare() function:

def compare(x, y):
    """Return a number < 0 if x < y, or > 0 if x > y"""
    if x == y: return 0
    return -1 if keyify(x) < keyify(y) else 1

I'm not sure how your tree is crafted and how your "cheap" and
"expensive" comparisons previously worked, but give something like
this a try. I think you'll find it adequate.

ChrisA


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 08:34:07 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 13:34:07 +0100
Subject: numpy arrays
In-Reply-To: <02464a1b-401f-4830-bf00-c4df4e95fee4@googlegroups.com>
References: <3774dc9b-f9d3-462b-bbe4-41b8b2244db7@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.43.1458729342.2244.python-list@python.org>
 <pan.2016.03.23.13.45.27.770000@nowhere.invalid>
 <02464a1b-401f-4830-bf00-c4df4e95fee4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxR6zLi0rrhLUdiOkQEphpPADHQs9VFW3Xsb9ZB3Rs+5tw@mail.gmail.com>

On 6 April 2016 at 17:26, Heli <hemla21 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for your replies. I have a question in regard with my previous question. I have a file that contains x,y,z and a value for that coordinate on each line. Here I am giving an example of the file using a numpy array called f.
>
> f=np.array([[1,1,1,1],
>             [1,1,2,2],
>             [1,1,3,3],
>             [1,2,1,4],
>             [1,2,2,5],
...
>             [3,2,3,24],
>             [3,3,1,25],
>             [3,3,2,26],
>             [3,3,3,27],
>             ])
>
> then after tranposing f, I get the x,y and z coordinates:
> f_tranpose=f.T
> x=np.sort(np.unique(f_tranpose[0]))
> y=np.sort(np.unique(f_tranpose[1]))
> z=np.sort(np.unique(f_tranpose[2]))

You don't actually need to transpose the matrix to get a column as a 1D array:

>>> a = np.array([[1,2,3],[4,5,6]])
>>> a
array([[1, 2, 3],
       [4, 5, 6]])
>>> a[0]
array([1, 2, 3])
>>> a[0,:]  # 1st row
array([1, 2, 3])
>>> a[:,0]  # 1st column
array([1, 4])

(Not that there's a correctness/performance difference or anything I
just think that asking for the column is clearer than asking for the
row of the transpose.)

> Then I will create a 3D array to put the values inside. The only way I see to do this is the following:
> arr_size=x.size
> val2=np.empty([3, 3,3])
>
> for sub_arr in f:
>     idx = (np.abs(x-sub_arr[0])).argmin()
>     idy = (np.abs(y-sub_arr[1])).argmin()
>     idz = (np.abs(z-sub_arr[2])).argmin()
>     val2[idx,idy,idz]=sub_arr[3]
>
> I know that in the example above I could simple reshape f_tranpose[3] to a three by three by three array, but in my real example the coordinates are not in order and the only way I see to do this is by looping over the whole file which takes a lot of time.

So it's easy if the array is in order like your example? Why not sort
the array into order then? I think lexsort will do what you want:
http://docs.scipy.org/doc/numpy-1.10.1/reference/generated/numpy.lexsort.html
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8153540/sort-a-numpy-array-like-a-table

--
Oscar


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 08:46:21 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 22:46:21 +1000
Subject: Untrusted code execution
In-Reply-To: <slrnngcjsj.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <slrnngcjsj.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpjuM7iEUDDMbz=o+skhsBkGK+SRJr5PyB8pi3QPN2CgA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:13 PM, Jon Ribbens
<jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> wrote:
> It's true that I was using eval(), but I don't think that actually
> fundamentally changes the game. Almost exactly the same sanitisation
> method can be used to make exec() code safe. ("import" for example
> does not work because there is no "__import__" in the provided
> builtins, but even if it did work it could be trivially disallowed by
> searching for ast.Import and ast.ImportFrom nodes. "with" must be
> disallowed because otherwise __exit__ can be used to get a frame
> object.)

Once statements are incorporated, you have three options regarding
exception handling:

1) Disallow try/except, flying in the face of modern language design
2) Allow only a bare except clause, flying in the face of modern Python advice
3) Allow access to all the built-in exception types.

Options 1 and 2 are nastily restricted. Option 3 is likely broken, as
exception objects carry tracebacks and such. And don't forget, you can
trigger exceptions very easily:

* TypeError by adding two literals of incompatible types, eg []+{}
* ValueError by casting inappropriate strings eg int("")
* ZeroDivisionError by, yaknow, dividing by zero
* NameError and UnboundLocalError with random names
* RecursionError by infinitely recursing
* Unicode{En,De}codeError with str/bytes methods
* KeyError/IndexError by subscripting
* OverflowError with float exponentiation, eg 2.0**10000
* etc, etc, etc

Are you prepared to guarantee that there's no way to leak information
out of *any* exception? If not, you can't offer exceptions, which
means you can't offer try/except other than with a bare except.

ChrisA


From steve at pearwood.info  Thu Apr  7 08:51:02 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 22:51:02 +1000
Subject: join_paired_ends.py: error: option -f: file does not exist
References: <e3227952-6ae3-41b5-9d5f-1ea2f18bbd81@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <570657b9$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:07 pm, Inya Ivano wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I've been having trouble with running my files:
> 
>>join_paired_ends.py -f
>>/home/qiime/Documents/Aleurone/1101-Pl1-A1_S193_L001_R2_001.fastq.gz -r
>>/home/qiime/Documents/Aleurone/1101-Pl1-A1_S193_L001_R1_001.fastq.gz -o
>>/home/qiime/Documents/Aleurone/Joined_1101
> 
>>join_paired_ends.py: error: option -f: file does not exist:
>>'/home/qiime/Documents/Aleurone/1101-Pl1-A1_S193_L001_R2_001.fastq.gz'

Does that file actually exist? What happens if you run:


ls -l /home/qiime/Documents/Aleurone/1101-Pl1-A1_S193_L001_R2_001.fastq.gz


or the equivalent for whatever operating system you are running?

(I'm guessing you're using some sort of Linux or Unix.)


> What I'm not sure about is whether there's a problem with the script or
> the virtualmachine settings, I'm using the latest Oracle VM VirtualBox
> version 5.0.16 edition.

To start with, you should try to get an traceback showing the *actual*
error. It looks like your script join_paired_ends.py catches the exception
and replaces the useful exception with a possibly misleading generic error
message. If the script does anything like this:


try:
    open(thefile) ...

except Exception:
    print("file does not exist")
    sys.exit()



then you are making life harder for yourself by suppressing the real error
and replacing it with a generic and probably incorrect error message.



-- 
Steven



From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 08:51:45 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 22:51:45 +1000
Subject: read a file and remove Mojibake chars
In-Reply-To: <CAF_EDkstLUt0hQ2RwQXH2LfvVOhtcmSVs910uJMd0i+2SkY5qA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF_EDkstLUt0hQ2RwQXH2LfvVOhtcmSVs910uJMd0i+2SkY5qA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo35Bs3Vb5O=k36JWs9eCW44+Uo7vTLsHBP_K=zvxSDjw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 6:47 PM, Daiyue Weng <daiyueweng at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, when I read a file, the file string contains Mojibake chars at the
> beginning, the code is like,
>
> file_str = open(file_path, 'r', encoding='utf-8').read()
> print(repr(open(file_path, 'r', encoding='utf-8').read())
>
> part of the string (been printing) containing Mojibake chars is like,
>
>   '??\n "name": "__NAME__"'
>
> I tried to remove the non utf-8 chars using the code,
>
> def read_config_file(fname):
>     with open(fname, "r", encoding='utf-8') as fp:
>         for line in fp:
>             line = line.strip()
>             line = line.decode('utf-8','ignore').encode("utf-8")
>
>     return fp.read()
>
> but it doesn't work, so how to remove the Mojibakes in this case?

This won't work as it currently stands. You're looping over the file,
stripping, *DE*coding (which shouldn't work - although in Python 2, it
sorta-kinda might), re-encoding, and then dropping the lines on the
floor. Then, after you've closed the file, you try to read from it. So
yeah, it doesn't work.

But if you're able to read the file *at all* using your original code,
it must be a correctly-formed UTF-8 stream. The probability that
random non-ASCII bytes just happen to be UTF-8 decodable is
vanishingly low, so I suspect your data issue has nothing to do with
encodings.

ChrisA


From larry.martell at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 08:53:12 2016
From: larry.martell at gmail.com (Larry Martell)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:53:12 -0400
Subject: script exits prematurely with no stderr output,
 but with system errors
In-Reply-To: <CACwCsY4r=L9bia-Zid3OH=1ZgZXFufkJPAkcCr7NQX0FXBjNTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACwCsY4T5fJmPjuE7wDxJ+kzLtuxRZaw+zxW7Oo_KwjK+xAq2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPM-O+wykRfwe77oMG==pLvXdNCub5zBjU-9k7vqQBJx7xn6ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACwCsY4r=L9bia-Zid3OH=1ZgZXFufkJPAkcCr7NQX0FXBjNTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACwCsY5VU7M9RP0bL6RizH06mG=Q1+-fK6Sm=513VnPgRTL21g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 4:55 PM, Larry Martell <larry.martell at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 4:47 PM, Joel Goldstick
> <joel.goldstick at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 4:32 PM, Larry Martell <larry.martell at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a script that I run a lot - at least 10 time every day. Usually
>>> it works fine. But sometime it just stops running with nothing output
>>> to stdout or stderr. I've been trying to debug this for a while, and
>>> today I looked in the system logs and saw this:
>>>
>>> abrt: detected unhandled Python exception in
>>> '/home/prod_user/python/make_workitem_list.py'
>>> abrtd: Directory 'pyhook-2016-03-19-22:20:43-26461' creation detected
>>> abrt-server[3688]: Saved Python crash dump of pid 26461 to
>>> /var/spool/abrt/pyhook-2016-03-19-22:20:43-26461
>>> abrtd: Executable '/home/prod_user/python/make_workitem_list.py'
>>> doesn't belong to any package and ProcessUnpackaged is set to 'no'
>>> abrtd: 'post-create' on
>>> '/var/spool/abrt/pyhook-2016-03-19-22:20:43-26461' exited with 1
>>> abrtd: Deleting problem directory
>>> '/var/spool/abrt/pyhook-2016-03-19-22:20:43-26461'
>>> abrtd: make_workitem_list: page allocation failure. order:1, mode:0x20
>>> abrtd: Pid: 31870, comm: make_workitem_list Not tainted
>>> 2.6.32-573.12.1.el6.x86_64 #1
>>>
>>> I have never seen anything like this before. Usually, if there is an
>>> unhandled exception something is dumped to stderr. Anyone have any
>>> idea what is going on? How can I get it to not delete this crash dump
>>> it mentioned? I guess I can put a big exception handler around the
>>> enter script with a traceback.
>>>
>>> This is on Red Hat Enterprise Linux Server release 6.7 (Santiago).
>>
>> Googling I found this:
>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2628901/interpreting-kernel-message-page-allocation-failure-order1
>>
>> It seems that the kernel can't allocate memory is a likely cause.

I modified the program to use less memory and I am not getting the
page allocation failure any more, but I am still getting the unhanded
exceptions messages in the system logs.

> Yes, I was thinking that as well about the "page allocation failure"
> message, but it's almost like there were 2 errors, the first being the
> unhandled exception. But why would it not output something to stderr?

I was able to configure the abrt daemon to capture these unhanded
exceptions and they are just typical ValueErrors and TypeErrors (which
I will of course deal with in my program). But I wonder why these
exceptions were not just printed to stderr as other unhanded
exceptions are. What is special about these that made the OS get
involved?


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 09:26:44 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 14:26:44 +0100
Subject: Install request
In-Reply-To: <5e6d5349-101c-45d2-9aa7-95aaa7abfb6c@googlegroups.com>
References: <CA+FnnTzfB81R_38RYeu8L2g1AntBaNRVY8S-ROdOAthSBZRR-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHVvXxT33X7=-Tm6-W6kQofunrw90cxiVuJ1nQitQKPm0zyOsA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.79.1459873183.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <1228f650-7725-4604-a434-1300501ca96e@googlegroups.com>
 <5704445b$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <5e6d5349-101c-45d2-9aa7-95aaa7abfb6c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxQGbTnOxah0FX=7-ZzrG3pOUXYkC9pTvf8qLaHbgj=_sA@mail.gmail.com>

On 6 April 2016 at 05:08, Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 4:34:11 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 02:52 am, Rustom Mody wrote:
>>
>> > On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 9:49:58 PM UTC+5:30, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
>> >> Another possibility to improve this situation would be to make a page
>> >> on the wiki that actually explains the known problems (and fixes) for
>> >> 3.5 on Windows.
>> >
>> > +10 on that one
>> > ie When a question becomes a FAQ just put it there
>>
>>
>> Would somebody who knows Windows actually do this and then post the link
>> here please?
>
> Even if some windows-knower replies to this mail, someone else can wikify and
> put up
>
> Data needed:
> Which windows version.
> What error message
> What action to do

So I'm not a Windows user but it would be good for someone who is to
put up a full step-by-step (with screenshots) explanation of running
the python.org installer on Windows and then launching Python (by
running IDLE and/or from the terminal). One of the problems we're
having with some of the questions about this is that it isn't even
clear whether someone reporting these problems is referring to the
installer or to running Python or IDLE or what because they don't
understand enough about what's going on to answer those questions:
some pictures would really help with that.

The problems off the top of my head that have come up on this list are:

Python 3.5 will not work with Windows XP: install Python 3.4 or
upgrade to a newer version of Windows (or some other OS). As of 3.5.1
I think the installer should explain the problem but I'm not sure.

Python 3.5 is compiled with VS2015 and so uses the new Windows 10 ucrt
runtime. This should mean that it works immediately on Windows 10 (or
higher?) but that for previous versions of Windows this will give an
error "api-ms-win-crt-runtime.dll not found" or something. Explanation
and downloads here:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2999226

The next problem that occurs is the "modify, repair, or uninstall"
one. This is a messagebox that is presented to a user possibly during
installation or when trying to run Python after installation. This
problem has been reported many times and AFAIR it's always Windows and
Python 3.5. No solution is known to this problem (most of the users
reporting it have not followed up after their initial post which may
be related to the way posters on the list reply to them) and I don't
know if it has been reported on the tracker.

There is one other which is the "error 0x823408239" (can't remember
the exact hex) which is possibly due to a corrupt download or to some
problem with temporary files. Apparently renaming some temp files
folder can fix this problem but not sure. Again this problem seems to
be exclusive to Windows and 3.5 and not sure if it's reported to the
tracker.

--
Oscar


From random832 at fastmail.com  Thu Apr  7 10:19:58 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 10:19:58 -0400
Subject: read a file and remove Mojibake chars
In-Reply-To: <CAF_EDkstLUt0hQ2RwQXH2LfvVOhtcmSVs910uJMd0i+2SkY5qA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF_EDkstLUt0hQ2RwQXH2LfvVOhtcmSVs910uJMd0i+2SkY5qA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1460038798.1129632.571852769.3C7660F2@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016, at 04:47, Daiyue Weng wrote:
> Hi, when I read a file, the file string contains Mojibake chars at the
> beginning, the code is like,
> 
> file_str = open(file_path, 'r', encoding='utf-8').read()
> print(repr(open(file_path, 'r', encoding='utf-8').read())
> 
> part of the string (been printing) containing Mojibake chars is like,
> 
>   '??\n "name": "__NAME__"'

Based on a hunch, I tried something:

"??" happens to be the GBK/GB18030 interpretation of the bytes "ef bb bf
7b", which is a UTF-8 byte order mark followed by "{".

So what happened is that someone wrote text in UTF-8 with a byte-order
marker, and someone else read this as GBK/GB18030 and wrote the
resulting characters as UTF-8. So it may be easier to simply
special-case it:

if file_str[:2] == '??': file_str = '{' + file_str[2:]
elif file_str[:2] == '??': file_str = '[' + file_str[2:]


In principle, the whole process could be reversed as file_str =
file_str.encode('gbk').decode('utf-8'), but that would be overkill if it
contains no other ASCII characters and can't contain anything at the
start except these. Plus, if there are any other non-ASCII characters in
the string, it's anyone's guess as to whether they survived the process
in a way that allows you to reverse it.


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Thu Apr  7 10:25:29 2016
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 14:25:29 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Untrusted code execution
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <slrnngcjsj.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmpjuM7iEUDDMbz=o+skhsBkGK+SRJr5PyB8pi3QPN2CgA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.24.1460033189.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnngcrkv.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>

On 2016-04-07, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> Options 1 and 2 are nastily restricted. Option 3 is likely broken, as
> exception objects carry tracebacks and such.

Everything you're saying here is assuming that we must not let the
attacker see any exception objects, but I don't understand why you're
assuming that. As far as I can see, the information that exceptions
hold that we need to prevent access to is all in "__" attributes that
we're already blocking.


From hemla21 at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 10:31:58 2016
From: hemla21 at gmail.com (Heli)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 07:31:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: numpy arrays
In-Reply-To: <mailman.23.1460032475.2253.python-list@python.org>
References: <3774dc9b-f9d3-462b-bbe4-41b8b2244db7@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.43.1458729342.2244.python-list@python.org>
 <pan.2016.03.23.13.45.27.770000@nowhere.invalid>
 <02464a1b-401f-4830-bf00-c4df4e95fee4@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxR6zLi0rrhLUdiOkQEphpPADHQs9VFW3Xsb9ZB3Rs+5tw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.23.1460032475.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <732a5f57-af25-47ed-aca3-af0705b62076@googlegroups.com>


Thanks a lot Oscar, 

The lexsort you suggested was the way to go. 

import h5py
import numpy as np
f=np.loadtxt(inputFile,delimiter=None)
xcoord=np.sort(np.unique(f[:,0]))
ycoord=np.sort(np.unique(f[:,1]))
zcoord=np.sort(np.unique(f[:,2]))

x=f[:,0]
y=f[:,1]
z=f[:,2]
val=f[:,3]

ind = np.lexsort((val,z,y,x)) # Sort by x, then by y, then by z, then by val
sortedVal=np.array([(val[i]) for i in ind]).reshape((xcoord.size,ycoord.size,zcoord.size))


From random832 at fastmail.com  Thu Apr  7 10:33:01 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 10:33:01 -0400
Subject: Untrusted code execution
In-Reply-To: <slrnngcjsj.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <slrnngcjsj.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1460039581.1132729.571798769.21A74B56@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016, at 08:13, Jon Ribbens wrote:
> > All the obvious, and even not-so-obvious, attack tools are gone:
> > eval, exec, getattr, type, __import__.

We don't even need to take these away, per se.

eval and exec could be replaced with functions that perform the
evaluation with the same rules in the same sandbox.

I posted yesterday a sketch of a "type" proxy class that even allows "if
type(x) is type".

getattr could be replaced with something that does runtime checks for if
an attribute is allowed. In principle, you could even have the AST
transform replace attempted underscore accesses with getattr, which
could check to allow whitelisted underscore-attributes.

> Indeed. The fundamental point is that we must not allow the attacker
> to have access to any of those things, or to gain access by using any
> of the tools which we have provided. I think this is not an impossible
> problem.
> 
> > I think this approach is promising enough that Jon should take it to a few
> > other places for comments, to try to get more eyeballs. Stackoverflow and
> > Reddit's /r/python, perhaps. 
> 
> I'll post some example code on github in a bit and see what people
> think.

I've thrown together some stuff, in addition to my type example from
yesterday, including a module importer.


From random832 at fastmail.com  Thu Apr  7 10:33:03 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 10:33:03 -0400
Subject: Untrusted code execution
In-Reply-To: <5705e69a$0$2821$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1459948496.786520.570667177.4C7E8044@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.129.1459948499.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <5705bba5$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1460000453.4037177.571407849.7AD628D6@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.60.1460000456.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <5705e69a$0$2821$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1460039583.1132689.571732289.2B37508F@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016, at 00:48, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Sure, but I'm just demonstrating that the unrestricted builtins are just
> one 
> attribute lookup away. And as Chris points out, if you have (say) the os 
> module, then:
> 
> magic = os.sys.modules[
>     ''.join(chr(i-1) for i in
>     (96,96,99,118,106,109,117,106,111,116,96,96))
>     ][''.join(chr(i+17) for i in (84,101,80,91))]

I think you probably would not want to allow it access to any "real"
modules, but only proxy objects that allow either a specific set of
names (there are almost certainly functions in os that you don't want,
beyond the imported sys) or something general like "any public
[non-underscore] function/class/variable" (if the module itself has been
examined and exporting this full subset passes security standards); in
the latter case any imported modules would likewise be replaced with the
sandbox's fake module, so os.sys gives you the same thing that import
sys does (though, os in particular would be insane to give blanket
access to, but my test code works for fractions.sys)


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Apr  7 10:43:51 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 15:43:51 +0100
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <ne5rne$4h6$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 07/04/2016 13:05, Antoon Pardon wrote:
> I am looking at my avltree module for converting it to
> python3.
>
> One of the things that trouble me here is how python3 no
> longer has cmp and how things have to be of "compatible"
> type in order to be comparable.
>
> So in python2 it wasn't a problem to have a tree with
> numbers and strings as keys. In python3 that will not
> be so evident.
>
> In python2 descending the tree would only involve at
> most one expensive comparison, because using cmp would
> codify that comparison into an integer which would then
> be cheap to compare with 0. Now in python3, I may need
> to do two expensive comparisons, because there is no
> __cmp__ method, to make such a codefication.
>
> Is there a way to work around these limitations or
> should I resign myself to working within them?
>

HTH https://docs.python.org/3/library/functools.html#functools.cmp_to_key

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 10:48:29 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 15:48:29 +0100
Subject: numpy arrays
In-Reply-To: <732a5f57-af25-47ed-aca3-af0705b62076@googlegroups.com>
References: <3774dc9b-f9d3-462b-bbe4-41b8b2244db7@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.43.1458729342.2244.python-list@python.org>
 <pan.2016.03.23.13.45.27.770000@nowhere.invalid>
 <02464a1b-401f-4830-bf00-c4df4e95fee4@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxR6zLi0rrhLUdiOkQEphpPADHQs9VFW3Xsb9ZB3Rs+5tw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.23.1460032475.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <732a5f57-af25-47ed-aca3-af0705b62076@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxSMmwxxiq+9qhrTMbLUinrD3bvygi_BnsMp=fFwWANeMw@mail.gmail.com>

On 7 April 2016 at 15:31, Heli <hemla21 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks a lot Oscar,
>
> The lexsort you suggested was the way to go.

Glad to hear it.

> import h5py
> import numpy as np
> f=np.loadtxt(inputFile,delimiter=None)
> xcoord=np.sort(np.unique(f[:,0]))
> ycoord=np.sort(np.unique(f[:,1]))
> zcoord=np.sort(np.unique(f[:,2]))
>
> x=f[:,0]
> y=f[:,1]
> z=f[:,2]
> val=f[:,3]
>
> ind = np.lexsort((val,z,y,x)) # Sort by x, then by y, then by z, then by val
> sortedVal=np.array([(val[i]) for i in ind]).reshape((xcoord.size,ycoord.size,zcoord.size))

One final possible improvement is that

     np.array([val[i] for i in ind])

can probably be done with fancy indexing

    val[ind,:]

removing the only Python loop left.

--
Oscar


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Thu Apr  7 11:18:28 2016
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 15:18:28 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Untrusted code execution
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1459948496.786520.570667177.4C7E8044@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.129.1459948499.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <5705bba5$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmqdBb39QzFJCWd2jFCb7AqiF-vNDqaAH8r1noycq+yL=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.59.1459994854.1197.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnngcuoa.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>

On 2016-04-07, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> And you would have to do something about the unfortunate matter that modules
>> have a reference to the unrestricted __builtins__:
>>
>> py> os.__builtins__['eval']
>> <built-in function eval>
>
> This *in itself* is blocked by the rule against leading-underscore
> attribute lookup. However, if you can get the sys module, the world's
> your oyster; and any other module that imports sys will give it to
> you:
>
>>>> import os
>>>> os.sys
><module 'sys' (built-in)>
>>>> codecs.sys
><module 'sys' (built-in)>
>
> Can't monkey-patch that away, and codecs.sys.modules["builtins"] will
> give you access to the original builtins. And you can go to any number
> of levels, tracing a chain from a white-listed module to the
> unrestricted sys.modules. The only modules that would be safe to
> whitelist are those that either don't import anything significant (I'm
> pretty sure 'math' is safe), or import everything with underscores
> ("import sys as _sys").

No, actually absolutely no modules at all are safe to import directly.
This is because the untrusted code might alter them, and then the
altered code would be used by the trusted main application. Trivial
examples might include altering hashlib to always return the same
hash, 're' to always or never match, etc. If you import something
then it needs to be a individual copy of the module, with each name
referring either to an immutable object or to an individual proxy for
the real object.


From Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com  Thu Apr  7 11:33:16 2016
From: Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com (Joaquin Alzola)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 15:33:16 +0000
Subject: COnvert to unicode
Message-ID: <DB5PR07MB1496D15C3C8636336BD17DDEF0900@DB5PR07MB1496.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Hi People

I need to covert this string:

hello  there
this is a test

(also \n important)

To this Unicode:
00680065006c006c006f0020002000740068006500720065000a00740068006900730020006900730020006100200074006500730074000a
Without the \u and space.

https://www.branah.com/unicode-converter

I seem not to be able to do that conversion.

Help to guide me will be appreciated.

BR

Joaquin
This email is confidential and may be subject to privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not copy or disclose its content but contact the sender immediately upon receipt.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 11:44:06 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 01:44:06 +1000
Subject: Untrusted code execution
In-Reply-To: <slrnngcuoa.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1459948496.786520.570667177.4C7E8044@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.129.1459948499.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <5705bba5$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmqdBb39QzFJCWd2jFCb7AqiF-vNDqaAH8r1noycq+yL=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.59.1459994854.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnngcuoa.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpA_ChQ5LnWwv3XSvmFW0UM9uupCmSikJ1y6RAqLuxd0g@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 1:18 AM, Jon Ribbens
<jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> wrote:
> No, actually absolutely no modules at all are safe to import directly.
> This is because the untrusted code might alter them, and then the
> altered code would be used by the trusted main application. Trivial
> examples might include altering hashlib to always return the same
> hash, 're' to always or never match, etc. If you import something
> then it needs to be a individual copy of the module, with each name
> referring either to an immutable object or to an individual proxy for
> the real object.

And this is why eval is way easier to secure than exec. No assignment.

When you start talking about eval as being the *easier* option, you
know things are scary...

ChrisA


From pkpearson at nowhere.invalid  Thu Apr  7 12:51:54 2016
From: pkpearson at nowhere.invalid (Peter Pearson)
Date: 7 Apr 2016 16:51:54 GMT
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>

On Thu, 07 Apr 2016 11:37:50 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 05:56 am, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Rustom Mody wrote:
>
>>> So here are some examples to illustrate what I am saying:
>>> 
>>> Example 1 -- Ligatures:
>>> 
>>> Python3 gets it right
>>>>>> ?ag = 1
>>>>>> flag
>>> 1
[snip]
>> 
>> I do not think this is correct, though.  Different Unicode code sequences,
>> after normalization, should result in different symbols.
>
> I think you are confused about normalisation. By definition, normalising
> different Unicode code sequences may result in the same symbols, since that
> is what normalisation means.
>
> Consider two distinct strings which nevertheless look identical:
>
> py> a = "\N{LATIN SMALL LETTER U}\N{COMBINING DIAERESIS}"
> py> b = "\N{LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS}"
> py> a == b
> False
> py> print(a, b)
> ? ?
>
>
> The purpose of normalisation is to turn one into the other:
>
> py> unicodedata.normalize('NFKC', a) == b  # compose 2 code points --> 1
> True
> py> unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', b) == a  # decompose 1 code point --> 2
> True

It's all great fun until someone loses an eye.

Seriously, it's cute how neatly normalisation works when you're
watching closely and using it in the circumstances for which it was
intended, but that hardly proves that these practices won't cause much
trouble when they're used more casually and nobody's watching closely.
Considering how much energy good software engineers spend eschewing
unnecessary complexity, do we really want to embrace the prospect of
having different things look identical?  (A relevant reference point:
mixtures of spaces and tabs in Python indentation.)

[snip]
> The Unicode consortium seems to disagree with you.

<cranky_geezer_font>

The Unicode consortium was certifiably insane when it went into the
typesetting business.  The pile-of-poo character was just frosting on
the cake.

</cranky_geezer_font>

(Sorry to leave you with that image.)

-- 
To email me, substitute nowhere->runbox, invalid->com.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 13:07:47 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 03:07:47 +1000
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
In-Reply-To: <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrGJ5rPqr9Opq8aoyQbs=49wRuzm++raLgijWnGgqJkoQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 2:51 AM, Peter Pearson <pkpearson at nowhere.invalid> wrote:
> The pile-of-poo character was just frosting on
> the cake.
>
> (Sorry to leave you with that image.)

No. You're not even a little bit sorry.

You're an evil, evil man. And funny.

ChrisA
who knows that its codepoint is 1F4A9 without looking it up


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Thu Apr  7 13:20:38 2016
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 17:20:38 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Untrusted code execution
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <slrnngcjsj.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <1460039581.1132729.571798769.21A74B56@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.35.1460039584.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnngd5tc.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>

On 2016-04-07, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016, at 08:13, Jon Ribbens wrote:
>> > All the obvious, and even not-so-obvious, attack tools are gone:
>> > eval, exec, getattr, type, __import__.
>
> We don't even need to take these away, per se.
>
> eval and exec could be replaced with functions that perform the
> evaluation with the same rules in the same sandbox.

Ah, that's a good point.

I've put an example script here:

  https://github.com/jribbens/unsafe/blob/master/unsafe.py

When run as a script, it will execute whatever Python code you pass it
on stdin.

If anyone can break it (by which I mean escape from the sandbox,
not make it use up all the memory or go into an infinite loop,
both of which are trivial) then I would be very interested.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 13:34:30 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 03:34:30 +1000
Subject: Untrusted code execution
In-Reply-To: <slrnngd5tc.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <slrnngcjsj.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <1460039581.1132729.571798769.21A74B56@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.35.1460039584.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnngd5tc.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoyeYBy0BftWuG6St0OfRiisVrOEvWEQYQ-cP5QdLTjPg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 3:20 AM, Jon Ribbens
<jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> wrote:
> On 2016-04-07, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016, at 08:13, Jon Ribbens wrote:
>>> > All the obvious, and even not-so-obvious, attack tools are gone:
>>> > eval, exec, getattr, type, __import__.
>>
>> We don't even need to take these away, per se.
>>
>> eval and exec could be replaced with functions that perform the
>> evaluation with the same rules in the same sandbox.
>
> Ah, that's a good point.
>
> I've put an example script here:
>
>   https://github.com/jribbens/unsafe/blob/master/unsafe.py
>
> When run as a script, it will execute whatever Python code you pass it
> on stdin.

Now we're getting to something rather interesting. Going back to your
previous post, though...

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 3:26 AM, Jon Ribbens
<jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> wrote:
> The received wisdom is that restricted code execution in Python is
> an insolubly hard problem, but it looks a bit like my 7-line example
> above disproves this theory

... the thing you were missing in your original example was a LOT of
sophistication :)

I don't currently have any exploits against your new code, but at this
point, it's grown beyond the "hey, if this was insolubly hard, how
come seven lines of code can do it?" question. This is the kind of
effort it takes to sandbox Python inside Python.

ChrisA


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Thu Apr  7 13:35:54 2016
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 17:35:54 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Untrusted code execution
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <slrnngcjsj.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <1460039581.1132729.571798769.21A74B56@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.35.1460039584.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnngd5tc.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmoyeYBy0BftWuG6St0OfRiisVrOEvWEQYQ-cP5QdLTjPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.48.1460050473.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnngd6pv.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>

On 2016-04-07, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 3:20 AM, Jon Ribbens
><jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 2016-04-07, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016, at 08:13, Jon Ribbens wrote:
>>>> > All the obvious, and even not-so-obvious, attack tools are gone:
>>>> > eval, exec, getattr, type, __import__.
>>>
>>> We don't even need to take these away, per se.
>>>
>>> eval and exec could be replaced with functions that perform the
>>> evaluation with the same rules in the same sandbox.
>>
>> Ah, that's a good point.
>>
>> I've put an example script here:
>>
>>   https://github.com/jribbens/unsafe/blob/master/unsafe.py
>>
>> When run as a script, it will execute whatever Python code you pass it
>> on stdin.
>
> Now we're getting to something rather interesting. Going back to your
> previous post, though...
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 3:26 AM, Jon Ribbens
><jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> wrote:
>> The received wisdom is that restricted code execution in Python is
>> an insolubly hard problem, but it looks a bit like my 7-line example
>> above disproves this theory
>
> ... the thing you were missing in your original example was a LOT of
> sophistication :)
>
> I don't currently have any exploits against your new code, but at this
> point, it's grown beyond the "hey, if this was insolubly hard, how
> come seven lines of code can do it?" question. This is the kind of
> effort it takes to sandbox Python inside Python.

Well, it entirely depends on how much you're trying to allow the
sandboxed code to do. Most of the stuff in that script (e.g.
_copy_module and safe versions of get/set/delattr, exec, and eval)
I don't think is really necessary for most sensible applications
of such an idea, I've just added it for completeness and to see
if it introduces any security holes that weren't there originally.

I could slim down the code again by simply removing all that extra
cruft and the principle would still be the same - it's only the
safe_compile() function that's adding anything interesting that
I haven't seen done before (and half of the lines in that function
are docstring or stuff to make nicer error messages).


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 13:38:42 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 03:38:42 +1000
Subject: COnvert to unicode
In-Reply-To: <DB5PR07MB1496D15C3C8636336BD17DDEF0900@DB5PR07MB1496.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DB5PR07MB1496D15C3C8636336BD17DDEF0900@DB5PR07MB1496.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpT55Dn9KLpb_UEzG4VBoycXe9ajBU4RnQAu+GJoz6Jhw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 1:33 AM, Joaquin Alzola
<Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com> wrote:
> hello  there
> this is a test
>
> (also \n important)
>
> To this Unicode:
> 00680065006c006c006f0020002000740068006500720065000a00740068006900730020006900730020006100200074006500730074000a
> Without the \u and space.

What happens if you have a non-BMP codepoint? So far, what you have is
pretty straight-forward.

>>> s = "hello  there\nthis is a test\n"
>>> "".join("%04x" % ord(x) for x in s)
'00680065006c006c006f0020002000740068006500720065000a00740068006900730020006900730020006100200074006500730074000a'

But if you have codepoints that don't fit in four hex digits, this
will mess up your formatting. You'll need to decide how to handle
those.

ChrisA


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 13:48:36 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 11:48:36 -0600
Subject: Untrusted code execution
In-Reply-To: <slrnngd6pv.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <slrnngcjsj.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <1460039581.1132729.571798769.21A74B56@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.35.1460039584.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnngd5tc.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmoyeYBy0BftWuG6St0OfRiisVrOEvWEQYQ-cP5QdLTjPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.48.1460050473.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnngd6pv.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkgjkSqCTSsmD5FLUqPkj5KRhQtmRNzbBqcTNNKbomHxw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:35 AM, Jon Ribbens
<jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> wrote:
> Well, it entirely depends on how much you're trying to allow the
> sandboxed code to do. Most of the stuff in that script (e.g.
> _copy_module and safe versions of get/set/delattr, exec, and eval)
> I don't think is really necessary for most sensible applications
> of such an idea, I've just added it for completeness and to see
> if it introduces any security holes that weren't there originally.
>
> I could slim down the code again by simply removing all that extra
> cruft and the principle would still be the same - it's only the
> safe_compile() function that's adding anything interesting that
> I haven't seen done before (and half of the lines in that function
> are docstring or stuff to make nicer error messages).

Since you're now allowing exec I suppose you might as well allow type
also, since you could just use a class statement instead. safe_compile
prevents accessing magic methods, but it doesn't prevent defining
them. Not sure if there could be an exploit there or not.


From kliateni at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 14:03:57 2016
From: kliateni at gmail.com (Karim)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 20:03:57 +0200
Subject: Python, Linux, default search places.
In-Reply-To: <OF37B3F72C.B36EA0F5-ONC1257F8E.003C8645-C1257F8E.003CADC0@rubena.cz>
References: <OF37B3F72C.B36EA0F5-ONC1257F8E.003C8645-C1257F8E.003CADC0@rubena.cz>
Message-ID: <5706A10D.90209@gmail.com>



On 07/04/2016 13:02, Frantisek.Fridrich at rubena.cgs.cz wrote:
> Hello.
>
> I run a third party program that can use a system installation of Python.
> I have to modify environment variables:
> PYTHONPATH,
> PATH,
> LD_LIBRARY_PATH.
>
> All these environment variables are empty at the beginning but Python uses
> a default or initial places to search for modules, libraries or
> executables.
>
> Q1. Could anybody tell me where I could find default search places for
> environment variables PYTHONPATH, PATH, LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
>
> OS: SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 11.
> HW: HP DL160 Gen8 SFF CTO.
> Python 2.6.
>
> Frantisek

export PYTHONPATH=${PYTHONPATH}/<Third party home>/<Third party python package>
export PATH=${PATH}:<Third party home>/bin
export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=${LD_LIBRARY_PATH}:<Third party home>/lib

Mine for pyparsing:

export PYTHONPATH=~/project/pyparsing-2.0.3

Karim



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr  7 14:13:44 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 20:13:44 +0200
Subject: COnvert to unicode
References: <DB5PR07MB1496D15C3C8636336BD17DDEF0900@DB5PR07MB1496.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <ne680s$sqr$1@ger.gmane.org>

Joaquin Alzola wrote:

> Hi People
> 
> I need to covert this string:
> 
> hello  there
> this is a test
> 
> (also \n important)
> 
> To this Unicode:
> 
00680065006c006c006f0020002000740068006500720065000a00740068006900730020006900730020006100200074006500730074000a
> Without the \u and space.
> 
> https://www.branah.com/unicode-converter
> 
> I seem not to be able to do that conversion.
> 
> Help to guide me will be appreciated.

>>> import codecs
>>> s = u"hello  there\nthis is a test\n"
>>> codecs.encode(s.encode("utf-16-be"), "hex")
'00680065006c006c006f0020002000740068006500720065000a00740068006900730020006900730020006100200074006500730074000a'




From best_lay at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  7 14:26:21 2016
From: best_lay at yahoo.com (Wildman)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 13:26:21 -0500
Subject: Python, Linux, default search places.
References: <OF37B3F72C.B36EA0F5-ONC1257F8E.003C8645-C1257F8E.003CADC0@rubena.cz>
 <mailman.19.1460027027.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <MtydnWoZypHQO5vKnZ2dnUU7-YWdnZ2d@giganews.com>

On Thu, 07 Apr 2016 13:02:46 +0200, Frantisek.Fridrich wrote:

> Hello.
> 
> I run a third party program that can use a system installation of Python. 
> I have to modify environment variables: 
> PYTHONPATH,
> PATH,
> LD_LIBRARY_PATH.
> 
> All these environment variables are empty at the beginning but Python uses 
> a default or initial places to search for modules, libraries or 
> executables.
> 
> Q1. Could anybody tell me where I could find default search places for 
> environment variables PYTHONPATH, PATH, LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
> 
> OS: SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 11. 
> HW: HP DL160 Gen8 SFF CTO.
> Python 2.6.
> 
> Frantisek

You should be able to retrieve any environment variable
like this, if it exists:

    import os
    env_var = os.environ["PATH"]

Environment variables use the colon, ':', to separate
entries so you can do this if you want a list:

    env_var_list = os.environ["PATH"].split(":")
 
BTW, variable names are case sensitive in Linux.  The
ones set by the system are normally all upper case.
That is not absolute in cases where variables are set
by 3rd party programs.

-- 
<Wildman> GNU/Linux user #557453
Why is it all instruments seeking intelligent life
in the universe are pointed away from Earth?
  -unknown


From emekamicro at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 14:39:13 2016
From: emekamicro at gmail.com (Emeka)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 19:39:13 +0100
Subject: Joining Strings
In-Reply-To: <lf5oa9mt3kv.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
References: <CAOypoo5YpPLNeobY3uo8o_KjXtfEWcmqffsEUXrqsJ0ACpkBWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.51.1459989021.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <lf5oa9mt3kv.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <CAOypoo57s_O4ZysgvqOJeGLPVzmuw85bFK=8AAeDoB=f2ksJbQ@mail.gmail.com>

Jussi,

Thanks it worked when parsed with json.load. However, it needed this
decode('utf'):

data = json.loads(respData.decode('utf-8'))

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 6:01 AM, Jussi Piitulainen <
jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi> wrote:

> Emeka writes:
>
> > Hello All,
> >
> > import urllib.request
> > import re
> >
> > url = 'https://www.everyday.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > req = urllib.request.Request(url)
> > resp = urllib.request.urlopen(req)
> > respData = resp.read()
> >
> >
> > paragraphs = re.findall(r'\[(.*?)\]',str(respData))
> > for eachP in paragraphs:
> >     print("".join(eachP.split(',')[1:-2]))
> >     print("\n")
> >
> >
> >
> > I got the below:
> > "Coke -  Yala Market Branch""NO. 113 IKU BAKR WAY YALA"""
> > But what I need is
> >
> > 'Coke -  Yala Market Branch NO. 113 IKU BAKR WAY YALA'
> >
> > How to I achieve the above?
>
> A couple of things you could do to understand your problem and work
> around it: Change your code to print(eachP). Change your "".join to
> "!".join to see where the commas were. Experiment with data of that form
> in the REPL. Sometimes it's good to print repr(datum) instead of datum,
> though not in this case.
>
> But are you trying to extract and parse paragraphs from a JSON response?
> Do not use regex for that at all. Use json.load or json.loads to parse
> it properly, and access the relevant data by indexing:
>
> x = json.loads('{"foo":[["Weather Forecast","It\'s Rain"],[]]}')
>
> x ==> {'foo': [['Weather Forecast', "It's Rain"], []]}
>
> x['foo'] ==> [['Weather Forecast', "It's Rain"], []]
>
> x['foo'][0] ==> ['Weather Forecast', "It's Rain"]
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
P.S Please join our groups*:  *nigeriaarduinogroup at googlegroups.com
* or *jifunze-kufikiria at googlegroups.com  These are platforms for learning
and sharing  of knowledge.
                                     www.satajanus.com | *Satajanus  Nig.
Ltd*


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Apr  7 15:26:11 2016
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:26:11 -0700
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1460031736.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87a8l5p6ek.fsf@nightsong.com>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
> First off, what does it actually *mean* to have a tree with numbers
> and keys as strings? Are they ever equal? Are all integers deemed
> lower than all strings? Something else?

If the AVL tree's purpose is to be an alternative lookup structure to
Python's hash-based dictionaries, then it doesn't really matter what the
ordering between values is, as long as it's deterministic.


From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Apr  7 15:32:05 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 22:32:05 +0300
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1460031736.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8l5p6ek.fsf@nightsong.com>
Message-ID: <874mbdi5ai.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid>:

> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
>> First off, what does it actually *mean* to have a tree with numbers
>> and keys as strings? Are they ever equal? Are all integers deemed
>> lower than all strings? Something else?
>
> If the AVL tree's purpose is to be an alternative lookup structure to
> Python's hash-based dictionaries, then it doesn't really matter what
> the ordering between values is, as long as it's deterministic.

I use AVL trees to implement timers. You need to be able to insert
elements in a sorted order and remove them quickly.

Guido chose a different method to implement timers for asyncio. He
decided to never remove canceled timers.


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 15:38:02 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 05:38:02 +1000
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <87a8l5p6ek.fsf@nightsong.com>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1460031736.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8l5p6ek.fsf@nightsong.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp2kdL9OE3Eg1qbt8zkdj7ePxVOcbt7JLuAvBgMc271NA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 5:26 AM, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
>> First off, what does it actually *mean* to have a tree with numbers
>> and keys as strings? Are they ever equal? Are all integers deemed
>> lower than all strings? Something else?
>
> If the AVL tree's purpose is to be an alternative lookup structure to
> Python's hash-based dictionaries, then it doesn't really matter what the
> ordering between values is, as long as it's deterministic.

Fair enough. In that case, the option of sorting by
(obj.__type__.__name__, obj) will probably do the job. But if you need
to maintain relationships across types (eg 1 < 2.0 < 3), it needs to
be more sophisticated.

ChrisA


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Thu Apr  7 16:56:01 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 22:56:01 +0200
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 07-04-16 om 14:22 schreef Chris Angelico:

...

> There's no __cmp__ method, but you could easily craft your own
> compare() function:
> 
> def compare(x, y):
>     """Return a number < 0 if x < y, or > 0 if x > y"""
>     if x == y: return 0
>     return -1 if keyify(x) < keyify(y) else 1
> 
> I'm not sure how your tree is crafted and how your "cheap" and
> "expensive" comparisons previously worked, but give something like
> this a try. I think you'll find it adequate.

That solution will mean I will have to do about 100% more comparisons
than previously.

Lets simplify for the moment and suppose all keys are tuples of
integers. Now because how trees are organised, the lower you
descend in the tree, the closer the keys are together. In the
case of tuples that means higher probability you have to traverse
the two tuples further in order to find out which is greater.

With the __cmp__ method, you only had to traverse the two tuples
once in order to find out whether they were equal or if not which
is the smaller and which is the greater.

With this method I have to traverse the two tuples almost always
twice. Once to find out if they are equal and if not a second
time to find out which is greater.

-- 
Antoon.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Apr  7 17:08:35 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 07:08:35 +1000
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <85wpo95dpo.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> writes:

> With this method I have to traverse the two tuples almost always
> twice. Once to find out if they are equal and if not a second time to
> find out which is greater.

You are essentially describing the new internal API of comparison
operators. That's pretty much unavoidable.

If you want to avoid repeating an expensive operation ? the computation
of the comparison value for an object ? you could add an LRU cache to
that function. See ?functools.lru_cache?.

-- 
 \      ?He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his |
  `\                             enemy from oppression.? ?Thomas Paine |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Apr  7 17:15:04 2016
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:15:04 -0700
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1460031736.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8l5p6ek.fsf@nightsong.com> <874mbdi5ai.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <8760vtp1d3.fsf@nightsong.com>

Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> writes:
> Guido chose a different method to implement timers for asyncio. He
> decided to never remove canceled timers.

Oh my, that might not end well.  There are other approaches that don't
need AVL trees and can remove cancelled timers, e.g. "timer wheels" as
used in Erlang and formerly (don't know about now) in the Linux kernel.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 18:21:08 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 08:21:08 +1000
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 6:56 AM, Antoon Pardon
<antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
>
> That solution will mean I will have to do about 100% more comparisons
> than previously.

Try it regardless. You'll probably find that performance is fine.
Don't prematurely optimize!

ChrisA


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 18:51:27 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 16:51:27 -0600
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=DxPAvSX64zVA11MdL2X5rk86sgMwre4KOuma27DLonw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Antoon Pardon
<antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
> Op 07-04-16 om 14:22 schreef Chris Angelico:
>
> ...
>
>> There's no __cmp__ method, but you could easily craft your own
>> compare() function:
>>
>> def compare(x, y):
>>     """Return a number < 0 if x < y, or > 0 if x > y"""
>>     if x == y: return 0
>>     return -1 if keyify(x) < keyify(y) else 1
>>
>> I'm not sure how your tree is crafted and how your "cheap" and
>> "expensive" comparisons previously worked, but give something like
>> this a try. I think you'll find it adequate.
>
> That solution will mean I will have to do about 100% more comparisons
> than previously.
>
> Lets simplify for the moment and suppose all keys are tuples of
> integers. Now because how trees are organised, the lower you
> descend in the tree, the closer the keys are together. In the
> case of tuples that means higher probability you have to traverse
> the two tuples further in order to find out which is greater.
>
> With the __cmp__ method, you only had to traverse the two tuples
> once in order to find out whether they were equal or if not which
> is the smaller and which is the greater.
>
> With this method I have to traverse the two tuples almost always
> twice. Once to find out if they are equal and if not a second
> time to find out which is greater.

You can reduce that to ~50% more if you swap the order. Check if one
tuple is less first. If it is, you have your answer, no further
comparison required. Otherwise, check the less likely case that
they're equal.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 18:55:46 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 16:55:46 -0600
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <874mbdi5ai.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1460031736.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8l5p6ek.fsf@nightsong.com> <874mbdi5ai.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzid==D4+ADD5fpzOG_8RQ+jqp0Bnn+wZay7SWuLRrPRpA4g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid>:
>
>> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
>>> First off, what does it actually *mean* to have a tree with numbers
>>> and keys as strings? Are they ever equal? Are all integers deemed
>>> lower than all strings? Something else?
>>
>> If the AVL tree's purpose is to be an alternative lookup structure to
>> Python's hash-based dictionaries, then it doesn't really matter what
>> the ordering between values is, as long as it's deterministic.
>
> I use AVL trees to implement timers. You need to be able to insert
> elements in a sorted order and remove them quickly.

Why would AVL trees implementing timers ever need non-numeric keys though?

It seems to me that if you're mixing types like this then the ordering
is likely not actually important.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Apr  7 19:01:42 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 00:01:42 +0100
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <ne6ost$eib$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 07/04/2016 21:56, Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Op 07-04-16 om 14:22 schreef Chris Angelico:
>
> ...
>
>> There's no __cmp__ method, but you could easily craft your own
>> compare() function:
>>
>> def compare(x, y):
>>      """Return a number < 0 if x < y, or > 0 if x > y"""
>>      if x == y: return 0
>>      return -1 if keyify(x) < keyify(y) else 1
>>
>> I'm not sure how your tree is crafted and how your "cheap" and
>> "expensive" comparisons previously worked, but give something like
>> this a try. I think you'll find it adequate.
>
> That solution will mean I will have to do about 100% more comparisons
> than previously.
>
> Lets simplify for the moment and suppose all keys are tuples of
> integers. Now because how trees are organised, the lower you
> descend in the tree, the closer the keys are together. In the
> case of tuples that means higher probability you have to traverse
> the two tuples further in order to find out which is greater.
>
> With the __cmp__ method, you only had to traverse the two tuples
> once in order to find out whether they were equal or if not which
> is the smaller and which is the greater.
>
> With this method I have to traverse the two tuples almost always
> twice. Once to find out if they are equal and if not a second
> time to find out which is greater.
>

Have you read this https://wiki.python.org/moin/HowTo/Sorting ?

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com  Thu Apr  7 19:23:23 2016
From: Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com (Joaquin Alzola)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 23:23:23 +0000
Subject: COnvert to unicode
In-Reply-To: <ne680s$sqr$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <DB5PR07MB1496D15C3C8636336BD17DDEF0900@DB5PR07MB1496.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <ne680s$sqr$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <DB5PR07MB1496B4AFBD6EB44DCE138373F0900@DB5PR07MB1496.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks Peter. Much appreciate will look into codecs and how they work.

-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+joaquin.alzola=lebara.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Peter Otten
Sent: 07 April 2016 19:14
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: COnvert to unicode

Joaquin Alzola wrote:

> Hi People
>
> I need to covert this string:
>
> hello  there
> this is a test
>
> (also \n important)
>
> To this Unicode:
>
00680065006c006c006f0020002000740068006500720065000a00740068006900730020006900730020006100200074006500730074000a
> Without the \u and space.
>
> https://www.branah.com/unicode-converter
>
> I seem not to be able to do that conversion.
>
> Help to guide me will be appreciated.

>>> import codecs
>>> s = u"hello  there\nthis is a test\n"
>>> codecs.encode(s.encode("utf-16-be"), "hex")
'00680065006c006c006f0020002000740068006500720065000a00740068006900730020006900730020006100200074006500730074000a'


--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
This email is confidential and may be subject to privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not copy or disclose its content but contact the sender immediately upon receipt.


From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr  8 00:17:46 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 07:17:46 +0300
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1460031736.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8l5p6ek.fsf@nightsong.com> <874mbdi5ai.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzid==D4+ADD5fpzOG_8RQ+jqp0Bnn+wZay7SWuLRrPRpA4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.60.1460069789.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87twjchgyd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com>:

> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> I use AVL trees to implement timers. You need to be able to insert
>> elements in a sorted order and remove them quickly.
>
> Why would AVL trees implementing timers ever need non-numeric keys
> though?
>
> It seems to me that if you're mixing types like this then the ordering
> is likely not actually important.

The keys are expiry times. You could use numbers or you could use
datetime objects.

Ordering is crucial when it comes to timers.


Marko


From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr  8 00:22:33 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 07:22:33 +0300
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1460031736.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8l5p6ek.fsf@nightsong.com> <874mbdi5ai.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8760vtp1d3.fsf@nightsong.com>
Message-ID: <87pou0hgqe.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid>:

> Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> writes:
>> Guido chose a different method to implement timers for asyncio. He
>> decided to never remove canceled timers.
>
> Oh my, that might not end well. There are other approaches that don't
> need AVL trees and can remove cancelled timers, e.g. "timer wheels" as
> used in Erlang and formerly (don't know about now) in the Linux
> kernel.

The issue is known. It has been tackled with a kind of a "garbage
collection" scheme:

   <URL: https://bugs.python.org/issue22448>


Marko


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 00:37:00 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 22:37:00 -0600
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <87twjchgyd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1460031736.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8l5p6ek.fsf@nightsong.com> <874mbdi5ai.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzid==D4+ADD5fpzOG_8RQ+jqp0Bnn+wZay7SWuLRrPRpA4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.60.1460069789.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87twjchgyd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=+OsQZfdhEQ4PPuBO8YeQAXMHR_6Sty3PH3q44YqJzRQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Apr 7, 2016 10:22 PM, "Marko Rauhamaa" <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>
> Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com>:
>
> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> >> I use AVL trees to implement timers. You need to be able to insert
> >> elements in a sorted order and remove them quickly.
> >
> > Why would AVL trees implementing timers ever need non-numeric keys
> > though?
> >
> > It seems to me that if you're mixing types like this then the ordering
> > is likely not actually important.
>
> The keys are expiry times. You could use numbers or you could use
> datetime objects.

Yes, but why would you want to use both?

> Ordering is crucial when it comes to timers.

I'm not disputing that.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 00:43:01 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 21:43:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
In-Reply-To: <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <e990973b-8777-4441-9401-b1b162b000fc@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 10:22:18 PM UTC+5:30, Peter Pearson wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Apr 2016 11:37:50 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 05:56 am, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> >> Rustom Mody wrote:
> >
> >>> So here are some examples to illustrate what I am saying:
> >>> 
> >>> Example 1 -- Ligatures:
> >>> 
> >>> Python3 gets it right
> >>>>>> ?ag = 1
> >>>>>> flag
> >>> 1
> [snip]
> >> 
> >> I do not think this is correct, though.  Different Unicode code sequences,
> >> after normalization, should result in different symbols.
> >
> > I think you are confused about normalisation. By definition, normalising
> > different Unicode code sequences may result in the same symbols, since that
> > is what normalisation means.
> >
> > Consider two distinct strings which nevertheless look identical:
> >
> > py> a = "\N{LATIN SMALL LETTER U}\N{COMBINING DIAERESIS}"
> > py> b = "\N{LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS}"
> > py> a == b
> > False
> > py> print(a, b)
> > ? ?
> >
> >
> > The purpose of normalisation is to turn one into the other:
> >
> > py> unicodedata.normalize('NFKC', a) == b  # compose 2 code points --> 1
> > True
> > py> unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', b) == a  # decompose 1 code point --> 2
> > True
> 
> It's all great fun until someone loses an eye.
> 
> Seriously, it's cute how neatly normalisation works when you're
> watching closely and using it in the circumstances for which it was
> intended, but that hardly proves that these practices won't cause much
> trouble when they're used more casually and nobody's watching closely.
> Considering how much energy good software engineers spend eschewing
> unnecessary complexity, do we really want to embrace the prospect of
> having different things look identical?  (A relevant reference point:
> mixtures of spaces and tabs in Python indentation.)

That kind of sums up my position.
To be a casual user of unicode is one thing
To support it is another -- unicode strings in python3 -- ok so far
To mix up these two is a third without enough thought or consideration --
unicode identifiers is likely a security hole waiting to happen...

No I am not clever/criminal enough to know how to write a text that is visually
close to 
print "Hello World"
but is internally closer to
rm -rf /

For me this:
 >>> ? = 1
>>> A = 2
>>> ? + 1 == A 
True
>>> 


is cure enough that I am not amused

[The only reason I brought up case distinction is that this is in the same 
direction and way worse than that]

If python had been more serious about embracing the brave new world of
unicode it should have looked in this direction:
http://blog.languager.org/2014/04/unicoded-python.html

Also here I suggest a classification of unicode, that, while not
official or even formalizable is (I believe) helpful
http://blog.languager.org/2015/03/whimsical-unicode.html

Specifically as far as I am concerned if python were to throw back say
a ligature in an identifier as a syntax error -- exactly what python2 does --
I think it would be perfectly fine and a more sane choice


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 00:47:01 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 21:47:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
In-Reply-To: <e990973b-8777-4441-9401-b1b162b000fc@googlegroups.com>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <e990973b-8777-4441-9401-b1b162b000fc@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7e55a6df-d272-4217-9c45-1f9dea9b7afd@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 8, 2016 at 10:13:16 AM UTC+5:30, Rustom Mody wrote:
> No I am not clever/criminal enough to know how to write a text that is visually
> close to 
> print "Hello World"
> but is internally closer to
> rm -rf /
> 
> For me this:
>  >>> ? = 1
> >>> A = 2
> >>> ? + 1 == A 
> True
> >>> 
> 
> 
> is cure enough that I am not amused

Um... "cute" was the intention
[Or is it cu?e ?]


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 00:54:00 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 14:54:00 +1000
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
In-Reply-To: <e990973b-8777-4441-9401-b1b162b000fc@googlegroups.com>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <e990973b-8777-4441-9401-b1b162b000fc@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoyrpe5s_Ha2O5+Z9CnZmgF5ERhZD1bVUHpE3XyRMomMQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 2:43 PM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> No I am not clever/criminal enough to know how to write a text that is visually
> close to
> print "Hello World"
> but is internally closer to
> rm -rf /
>
> For me this:
>  >>> ? = 1
>>>> A = 2
>>>> ? + 1 == A
> True
>>>>
>
>
> is cure enough that I am not amused

To me, the above is a contrived example. And you can contrive examples
that are just as confusing while still being ASCII-only, like
swimmer/swirnmer in many fonts, or I and l, or any number of other
visually-confusing glyphs. I propose that we ban the letters 'r' and
'l' from identifiers, to ensure that people can't mess with
themselves.

> Specifically as far as I am concerned if python were to throw back say
> a ligature in an identifier as a syntax error -- exactly what python2 does --
> I think it would be perfectly fine and a more sane choice

The ligature is handled straight-forwardly: it gets decomposed into
its component letters. I'm not seeing a problem here.

ChrisA


From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr  8 01:00:40 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 08:00:40 +0300
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1460031736.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8l5p6ek.fsf@nightsong.com> <874mbdi5ai.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzid==D4+ADD5fpzOG_8RQ+jqp0Bnn+wZay7SWuLRrPRpA4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.60.1460069789.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87twjchgyd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzid=+OsQZfdhEQ4PPuBO8YeQAXMHR_6Sty3PH3q44YqJzRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.62.1460090229.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87k2k8heyv.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com>:

> On Apr 7, 2016 10:22 PM, "Marko Rauhamaa" <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> The keys are expiry times. You could use numbers or you could use
>> datetime objects.
>
> Yes, but why would you want to use both?

I was never talking about mixing key types. I was simply reacting (out
of context) to a suggestion that AVL trees are simply dictionaries.


Marko


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Fri Apr  8 01:02:36 2016
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 08:02:36 +0300
Subject: Joining Strings
References: <CAOypoo5YpPLNeobY3uo8o_KjXtfEWcmqffsEUXrqsJ0ACpkBWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.51.1459989021.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <lf5oa9mt3kv.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <CAOypoo57s_O4ZysgvqOJeGLPVzmuw85bFK=8AAeDoB=f2ksJbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.53.1460054355.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lf54mbc3d77.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Emeka writes:

> Thanks it worked when parsed with json.load. However, it needed this
> decode('utf'):
>
> data = json.loads(respData.decode('utf-8'))

So it does. The response data is bytes.

There's also a way to wrap a decoding reader between the response object
and the JSON parser (json.load instead of json.loads):

response = urllib.request.urlopen(command) # a stream of bytes ...
please = codecs.getreader('UTF-8') # ... to characters

result = json.load(please(response))


From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr  8 01:26:34 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 15:26:34 +1000
Subject: Untrusted code execution
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <slrnngcjsj.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmpjuM7iEUDDMbz=o+skhsBkGK+SRJr5PyB8pi3QPN2CgA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.24.1460033189.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnngcrkv.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5707410c$0$1615$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 12:25 am, Jon Ribbens wrote:

> On 2016-04-07, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Options 1 and 2 are nastily restricted. Option 3 is likely broken, as
>> exception objects carry tracebacks and such.
> 
> Everything you're saying here is assuming that we must not let the
> attacker see any exception objects, but I don't understand why you're
> assuming that. As far as I can see, the information that exceptions
> hold that we need to prevent access to is all in "__" attributes that
> we're already blocking.

You might be right, but you're putting a lot of trust in one security
mechanism. If an attacker finds a way around that, you're screwed. "Defence
in depth" and "default deny" is, in my opinion, better: prevent the
untrusted user from seeing everything except those things which are proven
to be safe.



-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr  8 01:28:30 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 15:28:30 +1000
Subject: Untrusted code execution
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1459948496.786520.570667177.4C7E8044@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.129.1459948499.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <5705bba5$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmqdBb39QzFJCWd2jFCb7AqiF-vNDqaAH8r1noycq+yL=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.59.1459994854.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnngcuoa.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <57074180$0$1615$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 01:18 am, Jon Ribbens wrote:

> No, actually absolutely no modules at all are safe to import directly.
> This is because the untrusted code might alter them


Good thinking! I never even thought of that.



-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr  8 02:00:10 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 16:00:10 +1000
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 02:51 am, Peter Pearson wrote:

> Seriously, it's cute how neatly normalisation works when you're
> watching closely and using it in the circumstances for which it was
> intended, but that hardly proves that these practices won't cause much
> trouble when they're used more casually and nobody's watching closely.
> Considering how much energy good software engineers spend eschewing
> unnecessary complexity, 

Maybe so, but it's not good software engineers we have to worry about, but
the other 99.9% :-)


> do we really want to embrace the prospect of 
> having different things look identical?

You mean like ASCII identifiers? I'm afraid it's about fifty years too late
to ban identifiers using O and 0, or l, I and 1, or rn and m.

Or for that matter:

a = akjhvciwfdwkejfc2qweoduycwldvqspjcwuhoqwe9fhlcjbqvcbhsiauy37wkg() + 100
b = 100 + akjhvciwfdwkejfc2qweoduycwldvqspjcwuhoqew9fhlcjbqvcbhsiauy37wkg()

How easily can you tell them apart at a glance?

The reality is that we trust our coders not to deliberately mess us about.
As the Obfuscated C and the Underhanded C contest prove, you don't need
Unicode to hide hostile code. In fact, the use of Unicode confusables in an
otherwise all-ASCII file is a dead giveaway that something fishy is going
on.

I think that, beyond normalisation, the compiler need not be too concerned
by confusables. I wouldn't *object* to the compiler raising a warning if it
detected confusable identifiers, or mixed script identifiers, but I think
that's more the job for a linter or human code review.



> (A relevant reference point: 
> mixtures of spaces and tabs in Python indentation.)

Most editors have an option to display whitespace, and tabs and spaces look
different. Typically the tab is shown with an arrow, and the space by a
dot. If people *still* confuse them, the issue is easily managed by a
combination of "well don't do that" and TabError.


> [snip]
>> The Unicode consortium seems to disagree with you.
> 
> <cranky_geezer_font>
> 
> The Unicode consortium was certifiably insane when it went into the
> typesetting business.

They are not, and never have been, in the typesetting business. Perhaps
characters are not the only things easily confused *wink*

(Although some members of the consortium may be. But the consortium itself
isn't.)


> The pile-of-poo character was just frosting on 
> the cake.

Blame the Japanese mobile phone companies for that. When you pay your
membership fee, you get to object to the addition of characters too.
(Anyone, I think, can propose a new character, but only members get to
choose which proposals are accepted.)

But really, why should we object? Is "pile-of-poo" any more silly than any
of the other dingbats, graphics characters, and other non-alphabetical
characters? Unicode is not just for "letters of the alphabet".


-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr  8 02:09:24 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 16:09:24 +1000
Subject: Promoting Python
References: <DUB110-DS131649FA6F6AA56BBDD63E989E0@phx.gbl>
 <87zit6lt8q.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidnMzeh_qKXBCikrb8T7Mp39+7ERx3QbEf1c1_+NSSaxwA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.29.1459968672.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpoak0f7.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidnWyAxZ-pesgbQ87hmEWEWj27CA8ZJCAruk3L1=H_QRVw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.35.1459971706.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87mvp6jyoi.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidmyUEenonFLmUs0jGBCbwatBVhQJiVtsCEYTCSX0Tz1aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.39.1459974039.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87egaijwuy.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzid=5eNxPOFm1zDe_wXSbW_HM1trO-1YxrpA7qrTQ0p9AiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1459978690.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87wpoaiedl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <57059E6D.8070105@roce.be>
 <mailman.56.1459992022.1197.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3eihqvx.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzidmk0-v5b1-DQ-D2bwebzrHng3bYWBBUTobXrNM6-oOOsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.3.1460012220.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8l5j36v.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <57074b16$0$1622$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 05:19 pm, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> First, terminology disputes are pointless.

I agree! There's nothing I like more than sitting in front of a blazing open
fire (or even just a warm heater) on a cold winter's evening, drinking a
nice mug of piping hot terminology dispute. Sometimes I put marshmallows in
it. That makes it even more pointless.

I have to be careful around my wife though, she's life-threateningly
allergic to all dispute products. (Technically, she can eat white dispute,
so long as it is 100% cocoa-free, but she doesn't see the point.)

.
.
.
.


Having trouble understanding what the hell I'm talking about? That's what
happens when somebody in a conversation is using unexpected terminology. To
the extent that terminology disputes resolve misuses and misunderstandings
about terminology, they simplify communication and make it easier to
communicate, not harder. The very opposite of pointless.


-- 
Steven



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Apr  8 02:12:04 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 02:12:04 -0400
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <874mbdi5ai.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1460031736.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8l5p6ek.fsf@nightsong.com> <874mbdi5ai.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <ne7i3s$sra$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/7/2016 3:32 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> I use AVL trees to implement timers. You need to be able to insert
> elements in a sorted order and remove them quickly.
>
> Guido chose a different method to implement timers for asyncio. He
> decided to never remove canceled timers.

In 3.5.1, asyncio.base_events.BaseEventLoop._run_once
has this code to remove cancelled timers when they become too numerous.

         if (sched_count > _MIN_SCHEDULED_TIMER_HANDLES and
             self._timer_cancelled_count / sched_count >
                 _MIN_CANCELLED_TIMER_HANDLES_FRACTION):
             # Remove delayed calls that were cancelled if their number
             # is too high
             new_scheduled = []
             for handle in self._scheduled:
                 if handle._cancelled:
                     handle._scheduled = False
                 else:
                     new_scheduled.append(handle)

             heapq.heapify(new_scheduled)
             self._scheduled = new_scheduled
             self._timer_cancelled_count = 0


-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 02:13:07 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 16:13:07 +1000
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
In-Reply-To: <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoVJU_PWZi0sEqckGkU_Xki47CB_C528nwwvJyKkainHA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 4:00 PM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> Or for that matter:
>
> a = akjhvciwfdwkejfc2qweoduycwldvqspjcwuhoqwe9fhlcjbqvcbhsiauy37wkg() + 100
> b = 100 + akjhvciwfdwkejfc2qweoduycwldvqspjcwuhoqew9fhlcjbqvcbhsiauy37wkg()
>
> How easily can you tell them apart at a glance?

Ouch! Can't even align them top and bottom. This is evil.

> I think that, beyond normalisation, the compiler need not be too concerned
> by confusables. I wouldn't *object* to the compiler raising a warning if it
> detected confusable identifiers, or mixed script identifiers, but I think
> that's more the job for a linter or human code review.

The compiler should treat as identical anything that an editor should
reasonably treat as identical. I'm not sure whether multiple combining
characters on a single base character are forced into some order prior
to comparison or are kept in the order they were typed, but my gut
feeling is that they should be considered identical.

> They are not, and never have been, in the typesetting business. Perhaps
> characters are not the only things easily confused *wink*

Peter is definitely a character. So are you. QUITE a character. :)

> But really, why should we object? Is "pile-of-poo" any more silly than any
> of the other dingbats, graphics characters, and other non-alphabetical
> characters? Unicode is not just for "letters of the alphabet".

It's less silly than "ZERO-WIDTH NON-BREAKING SPACE", which isn't a
space at all, it's a joiner. Go figure.

(History's a wonderful thing, ain't it? So's backward compatibility
and a guarantee that names will never be changed.)

ChrisA


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Apr  8 02:20:15 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 02:20:15 -0400
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <87pou0hgqe.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1460031736.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8l5p6ek.fsf@nightsong.com> <874mbdi5ai.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8760vtp1d3.fsf@nightsong.com> <87pou0hgqe.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <ne7ij7$4ab$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/8/2016 12:22 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid>:
>
>> Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> writes:
>>> Guido chose a different method to implement timers for asyncio. He
>>> decided to never remove canceled timers.

Only initially.  He approved a change immediately when presented with a 
concrete problem.

>> Oh my, that might not end well. There are other approaches that don't
>> need AVL trees and can remove cancelled timers, e.g. "timer wheels" as
>> used in Erlang and formerly (don't know about now) in the Linux
>> kernel.
>
> The issue is known. It has been tackled with a kind of a "garbage
> collection" scheme:
>
>     <URL: https://bugs.python.org/issue22448>

and fixed 1 1/2 years ago.


-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr  8 02:53:16 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:53:16 +0300
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1460031736.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8l5p6ek.fsf@nightsong.com> <874mbdi5ai.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8760vtp1d3.fsf@nightsong.com> <87pou0hgqe.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <ne7ij7$4ab$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.66.1460096435.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87zit4fv6r.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu>:

> On 4/8/2016 12:22 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> The issue is known. It has been tackled with a kind of a "garbage
>> collection" scheme:
>>
>>     <URL: https://bugs.python.org/issue22448>
>
> and fixed 1 1/2 years ago.

On the surface, the garbage collection scheme looks dubious, but maybe
it works perfect in practice.


Marko


From cs at zip.com.au  Fri Apr  8 03:03:45 2016
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 17:03:45 +1000
Subject: From email addresses sometimes strange on this list - was Re:
 [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmp5-rzAkGvPvvgUZ5fDAKVuDrMy1ZbU86NvTArFaHsWnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPTjJmp5-rzAkGvPvvgUZ5fDAKVuDrMy1ZbU86NvTArFaHsWnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160408070345.GA17537@cskk.homeip.net>

On 05Apr2016 08:58, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 8:55 AM, Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Usenet-orginating posts look fine.  For example:
>>
>> From: Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net>
>> Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
>>
>> Whereas email ones are sometimes looking like this:
>>
>> From: Mark Lawrence via Python-list <python-list at python.org>
>> Reply-To: Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk>
>
>Ohhhh.... That probably explains it. It's because of Yahoo and mailing
>lists. Yahoo did stuff that breaks stuff, so Mailman breaks stuff
>differently to make sure that only Yahoo people get messed up a bit.
>It means their names and addresses get slightly obscured, but delivery
>works.

It is yahoo and mailman and a funky spec called DKIM or DMARC (related, not 
identical).  This makes a signature related to the originating host, and if 
mailman forwarded the message unchanged the signature would break - people 
honouring it would decide the mailman hosts were forging Mark's email.

Fortunately you can fix all this up on receipt, which is why I wasn't noticing 
this myself (I had in the past, and wrote myself a recipe for repair - my mail 
folders contain the reapired messages).

For Mark's messages I am using these mailfiler rules (the latter I think):

  from:s/.*/$reply_to/
            X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:/.
            from:python-list at python.org,python-ideas at python.org,tutor at python.org

  from:s/.*/$reply_to/
            DKIM-Signature:/.
            from:python-list at python.org,python-ideas at python.org,tutor at python.org

which just replaces the contents of the From: line with the contents of the 
Reply-To: line for this kind of message via the python lists.

Yahoo do something equivalent but more agressive to lists hosted on yahoo 
itself, such as sed-users. For that I have a couple of scripts - fix-dkim-from:

  https://bitbucket.org/cameron_simpson/css/src/tip/bin/fix-dkim-from

which is a sed script, and fix-dkim-from-swap:

  https://bitbucket.org/cameron_simpson/css/src/tip/bin/fix-dkim-from-swap

The former works on messages whose From: header is enough - it can be reversed 
in place. The latter is for messages where the from isn't enough, but there is 
another header contianing the original (default "X-Original-From").

You can use these in systems like procmail, eg:

  :0whf
  * from:.*<sed-users at yahoogroups.com>
  | fix-dkim-from

It is annoying, and I'm happy to help people utilise these recipes if possible.  
Most all-in-one mail readers (Thunderbird, GMail, Apple Mail etc) are a bit too 
dumb, but if you can do your mail collection separately from your reader you 
can usually insert something in the processing.

It is nowhere near as annoying as the usenet<->mail gateway which is eating 
message-ids; that is truly uncivilised.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Fri Apr  8 03:03:53 2016
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 00:03:53 -0700
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1460031736.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8l5p6ek.fsf@nightsong.com> <874mbdi5ai.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8760vtp1d3.fsf@nightsong.com> <87pou0hgqe.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <ne7ij7$4ab$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.66.1460096435.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87zit4fv6r.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <87y48ooa3q.fsf@nightsong.com>

Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> writes:
> On the surface, the garbage collection scheme looks dubious, but maybe
> it works perfect in practice.

It looked suspicious at first glance but I think it is ok.  Basically on
at most every timeout event (scheduling, expiration, or cancellation),
it does an O(n) operation (scanning and re-heapifying the timeout list)
with probability O(1/n) where n is the queue size, which itself changes
(by 0, +1 or -1) when a timeout event happens.  That is, its overhead is
a constant factor unless I'm missing something.  There are some
efficiency gains possible but it seems par for the course for Python
code.


From smith at a-team.it  Fri Apr  8 03:25:08 2016
From: smith at a-team.it (Smith)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 09:25:08 +0200
Subject: Python,ping,csv
Message-ID: <o1JNy.43731$pt.31548@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

Hello to all,
I have this little script that pings certain ip addresses.
Considering that I am a newbie to the Python programming language, can 
you help me change these lines in order to put the output into a csv file?
Sorry for unclear English
Thanks in advance


import subprocess

for ping in range(1,254):
     address = "10.24.59." + str(ping)
     res = subprocess.call(['ping', '-c', '3', address])
     if res == 0:
         print ("ping to", address, "OK")
     elif res == 2:
         print ("no response from", address)
     else:
         print ("ping to", address, "failed!")


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Fri Apr  8 03:35:31 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 09:35:31 +0200
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 08-04-16 om 00:21 schreef Chris Angelico:
> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 6:56 AM, Antoon Pardon
> <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
>> That solution will mean I will have to do about 100% more comparisons
>> than previously.
> Try it regardless. You'll probably find that performance is fine.
> Don't prematurely optimize!
>
> ChrisA

But it was already working and optimized. The python3 approach forces
me to make changes to working code and make the performance worse.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 03:40:08 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 17:40:08 +1000
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp_P7avc8G0E249wPSQKWBjHgToB2gq+3bHFC=K4EHicw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Antoon Pardon
<antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
> Op 08-04-16 om 00:21 schreef Chris Angelico:
>> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 6:56 AM, Antoon Pardon
>> <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
>>> That solution will mean I will have to do about 100% more comparisons
>>> than previously.
>> Try it regardless. You'll probably find that performance is fine.
>> Don't prematurely optimize!
>>
>> ChrisA
>
> But it was already working and optimized. The python3 approach forces
> me to make changes to working code and make the performance worse.

Is performance actually worse because you're doing two comparisons?
Visibly worse? If so, you probably have an overly-complex comparison
function, and a tree is *always* going to be suboptimal. Have you
actually measured a performance hit?

ChrisA


From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr  8 03:40:16 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 10:40:16 +0300
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1460031736.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8l5p6ek.fsf@nightsong.com> <874mbdi5ai.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8760vtp1d3.fsf@nightsong.com> <87pou0hgqe.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <ne7ij7$4ab$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.66.1460096435.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87zit4fv6r.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87y48ooa3q.fsf@nightsong.com>
Message-ID: <87vb3sft0f.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid>:

> Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> writes:
>> On the surface, the garbage collection scheme looks dubious, but
>> maybe it works perfect in practice.
>
> It looked suspicious at first glance but I think it is ok. Basically
> on at most every timeout event (scheduling, expiration, or
> cancellation), it does an O(n) operation (scanning and re-heapifying
> the timeout list) with probability O(1/n) where n is the queue size,
> which itself changes (by 0, +1 or -1) when a timeout event happens.
> That is, its overhead is a constant factor unless I'm missing
> something. There are some efficiency gains possible but it seems par
> for the course for Python code.

I compared the performance of AVL trees, the older heapq technique as
well as the "GC scheme" in 2014 with a challenging but realistic
test scenario. AVL trees and the GC scheme had pretty much the same
throughput (and the older, simple heapq was slower).

With AVL trees, it's easier to be convinced about worst-case
performance. It is more difficult to see the potential pathological
cases with the GC scheme.


Marko


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Fri Apr  8 03:45:54 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 09:45:54 +0200
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <85wpo95dpo.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be> <85wpo95dpo.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <570761B2.3060800@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 07-04-16 om 23:08 schreef Ben Finney:
> Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> writes:
>
>> With this method I have to traverse the two tuples almost always
>> twice. Once to find out if they are equal and if not a second time to
>> find out which is greater.
> You are essentially describing the new internal API of comparison
> operators. That's pretty much unavoidable.

And nobody thought about this kind of cases or found them important enough?

> If you want to avoid repeating an expensive operation ? the computation
> of the comparison value for an object ? you could add an LRU cache to
> that function. See ?functools.lru_cache?.

I'll have a look.

-- 
Antoon



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Apr  8 03:47:18 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 17:47:18 +1000
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <85fuuw5ypl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> writes:

> But it was already working and optimized. The python3 approach forces
> me to make changes to working code and make the performance worse.

Yes, changing from Python 2 to Python 3 entails changing working code,
and entails different implementations for some things.

As for worse performance, that is something you can objectively measure.
What is the size of the performance reduction you have objectively
measured from this change?

-- 
 \        ?Spam will be a thing of the past in two years' time.? ?Bill |
  `\                                                 Gates, 2004-01-24 |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Apr  8 04:07:30 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 18:07:30 +1000
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be> <85wpo95dpo.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <570761B2.3060800@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <85bn5k5xrx.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> writes:

> Op 07-04-16 om 23:08 schreef Ben Finney:
> > You are essentially describing the new internal API of comparison
> > operators. That's pretty much unavoidable.
>
> And nobody thought about this kind of cases

I'm quite confident the API changes were thought about by many people.

> or found them important enough?

Important enough for what? You still haven't demonstrated what actual
harm is done by these API changes.

-- 
 \      ?Reichel's Law: A body on vacation tends to remain on vacation |
  `\            unless acted upon by an outside force.? ?Carol Reichel |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From lele at metapensiero.it  Fri Apr  8 04:10:52 2016
From: lele at metapensiero.it (Lele Gaifax)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 10:10:52 +0200
Subject: Untrusted code execution
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <87r3ejpz6o.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <slrnng8aq5.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <87inztq4k0.fsf@nightsong.com>
Message-ID: <87r3ego703.fsf@metapensiero.it>

Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> writes:

> Lua is supposed to be easy to embed and sandbox.  It might be
> interesting to write Python bindings for the Lua interpreter sometime.

Isn't this something similar to already existing
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/lupa/?

ciao, lele.
-- 
nickname: Lele Gaifax | Quando vivr? di quello che ho pensato ieri
real: Emanuele Gaifas | comincer? ad aver paura di chi mi copia.
lele at metapensiero.it  |                 -- Fortunato Depero, 1929.



From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr  8 04:34:00 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 11:34:00 +0300
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.21.1460030738.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87r3egfqiv.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be>:

> In python2 descending the tree would only involve at most one
> expensive comparison, because using cmp would codify that comparison
> into an integer which would then be cheap to compare with 0. Now in
> python3, I may need to do two expensive comparisons, because there is
> no __cmp__ method, to make such a codefication.

I think you should base your tree implementation on key.__lt__() only.
Only compare keys using <, nothing else, ever.

It may lead to faster or slower performance, depending on the ordering
function, but I think it is more minimalistic, and thus philosophically
more appealing than __cmp__.


Marko


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Fri Apr  8 04:43:02 2016
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 01:43:02 -0700
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1460031736.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8l5p6ek.fsf@nightsong.com> <874mbdi5ai.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8760vtp1d3.fsf@nightsong.com> <87pou0hgqe.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <ne7ij7$4ab$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.66.1460096435.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87zit4fv6r.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87y48ooa3q.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <87vb3sft0f.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <87twjco5ih.fsf@nightsong.com>

Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> writes:
> With AVL trees, it's easier to be convinced about worst-case
> performance.

I'd have thought the main reason to use AVL trees was persistence, so
you could have multiple slightly different trees sharing most of their
structures.

> It is more difficult to see the potential pathological cases with the
> GC scheme.

How bad can the GC scheme be, if the constants are picked properly?
I'll think about this tomorrow, it's late here now.


From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 05:18:11 2016
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 05:18:11 -0400
Subject: Python,ping,csv
In-Reply-To: <o1JNy.43731$pt.31548@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
References: <o1JNy.43731$pt.31548@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+zNiCCMd1i7WD_k-Netyu6zx3muc8hcKPzkyfZRkQdcDg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 3:25 AM, Smith <smith at a-team.it> wrote:
> Hello to all,
> I have this little script that pings certain ip addresses.
> Considering that I am a newbie to the Python programming language, can you
> help me change these lines in order to put the output into a csv file?
> Sorry for unclear English
> Thanks in advance
>
>
> import subprocess
>
> for ping in range(1,254):
>     address = "10.24.59." + str(ping)
>     res = subprocess.call(['ping', '-c', '3', address])
>     if res == 0:
>         print ("ping to", address, "OK")
>     elif res == 2:
>         print ("no response from", address)
>     else:
>         print ("ping to", address, "failed!")
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

What do you want in your csv file?  Show a sample output

-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays


From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr  8 05:23:56 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 19:23:56 +1000
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.21.1460030738.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3egfqiv.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <570778ad$0$1587$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 06:34 pm, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be>:
> 
>> In python2 descending the tree would only involve at most one
>> expensive comparison, because using cmp would codify that comparison
>> into an integer which would then be cheap to compare with 0. Now in
>> python3, I may need to do two expensive comparisons, because there is
>> no __cmp__ method, to make such a codefication.
> 
> I think you should base your tree implementation on key.__lt__() only.
> Only compare keys using <, nothing else, ever.

I believe that's how list.sort() and sorted() work:

py> class Spam(object):
...     def __init__(self, n):
...             self.n = n
...     def __lt__(self, other):
...             return self.n < other.n
...     def __repr__(self):
...             return repr(self.n)
...
py> L = [Spam(5), Spam(3), Spam(9), Spam(1), Spam(2)]
py> L
[5, 3, 9, 1, 2]
py> sorted(L)
[1, 2, 3, 5, 9]


as well as max() and min().



-- 
Steven



From Frantisek.Fridrich at rubena.cgs.cz  Fri Apr  8 06:01:59 2016
From: Frantisek.Fridrich at rubena.cgs.cz (Frantisek.Fridrich at rubena.cgs.cz)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 12:01:59 +0200
Subject: Python, Linux, default search places.
Message-ID: <OF6D1A0B28.7767F747-ONC1257F8F.0036E3F2-C1257F8F.00371D12@rubena.cz>

Hello.

Thank you to Karim, thank you to Wildman for response. 

I will describe my problem in more detail. Python on my computer is 
installed in /usr directory. My Python contains additional modules such as 
numpy, scipy, matplotlib, h5py, ? . Python runs correctly.

Third party program opens Python but I can?t import numpy and so on. 
Python can?t find numpy. After modifying PYTHONPATH, Python can find numpy 
but shows the following error message:
/usr/lib64/python2.6/lib-dynload/math.so: undefined symbol: PyFPE_jbuf
I think Python can?t find some libraries. 

I don?t know what the third party program does with environment variables 
but I think I should correctly define environment either in shell before I 
start third party program or in Python in third party program.

That is the reason why I would like to know default:
 - search path for libraries,
 - search path for Python modules,
in case LD_LIBRARARY_PATH and PYTHONPATH is empty not defined.

I think that default
 - search path for executables
is easier task. I also would like to know the correct default definition. 

OS: SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 11. 
HW: HP DL160 Gen8 SFF CTO.
Python 2.6.

Frantisek

Disclaimer: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential 
and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they 
are addressed. Distribution only by express authority of a Rubena company.


From asimkostas at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 06:26:13 2016
From: asimkostas at gmail.com (asimkon .)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 13:26:13 +0300
Subject: MySQL - Django can not display international characters
Message-ID: <CA+9XG=O+9cLj+gPUmPeq4m=GhqD9J0pq6zgsHqyQ3FpEA-b8Sw@mail.gmail.com>

I have connected successfully MySQL with Django after installing MySQL
module via easy_install command. But unfortunately I have a problem setting
mysql db to properly recognise greek characters in django. In my setting.py
file I have included the following options:

'OPTIONS': { 'charset': 'utf8', 'use_unicode': True, }, } instead of utf8
in the charset I tried using windows-1253 and iso-8859-1 but with no
results.

I have stored database records successfully in greek via CMD, but when i
try to do the opposite in CMD again via ORM i get strange characters. Any
kind of help?


Regards
Kostas Asimakopoulos


From songofacandy at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 06:33:16 2016
From: songofacandy at gmail.com (INADA Naoki)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 19:33:16 +0900
Subject: MySQL - Django can not display international characters
In-Reply-To: <CA+9XG=O+9cLj+gPUmPeq4m=GhqD9J0pq6zgsHqyQ3FpEA-b8Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+9XG=O+9cLj+gPUmPeq4m=GhqD9J0pq6zgsHqyQ3FpEA-b8Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEfz+Tya673jzmQxFQrtYsXvdcj3jdJtNR4uuQ1wPKZEU3TuKA@mail.gmail.com>

How did you create DB?
http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.7/en/charset-database.html

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 7:26 PM, asimkon . <asimkostas at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have connected successfully MySQL with Django after installing MySQL
> module via easy_install command. But unfortunately I have a problem setting
> mysql db to properly recognise greek characters in django. In my setting.py
> file I have included the following options:
>
> 'OPTIONS': { 'charset': 'utf8', 'use_unicode': True, }, } instead of utf8
> in the charset I tried using windows-1253 and iso-8859-1 but with no
> results.
>
> I have stored database records successfully in greek via CMD, but when i
> try to do the opposite in CMD again via ORM i get strange characters. Any
> kind of help?
>
>
> Regards
> Kostas Asimakopoulos
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
INADA Naoki  <songofacandy at gmail.com>


From kliateni at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 07:37:26 2016
From: kliateni at gmail.com (Karim)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 13:37:26 +0200
Subject: Python, Linux, default search places.
In-Reply-To: <OF6D1A0B28.7767F747-ONC1257F8F.0036E3F2-C1257F8F.00371D12@rubena.cz>
References: <OF6D1A0B28.7767F747-ONC1257F8F.0036E3F2-C1257F8F.00371D12@rubena.cz>
Message-ID: <570797F6.9010503@gmail.com>



On 08/04/2016 12:01, Frantisek.Fridrich at rubena.cgs.cz wrote:
> Hello.
>
> Thank you to Karim, thank you to Wildman for response.
>
> I will describe my problem in more detail. Python on my computer is
> installed in /usr directory. My Python contains additional modules such as
> numpy, scipy, matplotlib, h5py, ? . Python runs correctly.
>
> Third party program opens Python but I can?t import numpy and so on.
> Python can?t find numpy. After modifying PYTHONPATH, Python can find numpy
> but shows the following error message:
> /usr/lib64/python2.6/lib-dynload/math.so: undefined symbol: PyFPE_jbuf
> I think Python can?t find some libraries.
>
> I don?t know what the third party program does with environment variables
> but I think I should correctly define environment either in shell before I
> start third party program or in Python in third party program.
>
> That is the reason why I would like to know default:
>   - search path for libraries,
>   - search path for Python modules,
> in case LD_LIBRARARY_PATH and PYTHONPATH is empty not defined.
>
> I think that default
>   - search path for executables
> is easier task. I also would like to know the correct default definition.
>
> OS: SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 11.
> HW: HP DL160 Gen8 SFF CTO.
> Python 2.6.
>
> Frantisek
>
> Disclaimer: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential
> and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
> are addressed. Distribution only by express authority of a Rubena company.
>
Hi Frantisek,

If it could help you whatever the platform you are on the site python 
pkg gives you information of all 3rd parties modules and dynamic loads:

bash: python /usr/lib/python2.7/site.py

sys.path = [
     '/usr/lib/python2.7',
     '/home/karim/project/pyparsing-2.0.3',
     '/usr/lib/python2.7/plat-x86_64-linux-gnu',
     '/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-tk',
     '/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-old',
     '/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload',
     '/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages',
     '/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages',
     '/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/PILcompat',
     '/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/gtk-2.0',
     '/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.7',
     '/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/ubuntu-sso-client',
]
USER_BASE: '/home/karim/.local' (exists)
USER_SITE: '/home/karim/.local/lib/python2.7/site-packages' (doesn't exist)
ENABLE_USER_SITE: True

Karim


From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr  8 07:56:39 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 21:56:39 +1000
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.69.1460100988.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57079c79$0$1591$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 05:35 pm, Antoon Pardon wrote:

> Op 08-04-16 om 00:21 schreef Chris Angelico:
>> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 6:56 AM, Antoon Pardon
>> <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
>>> That solution will mean I will have to do about 100% more comparisons
>>> than previously.
>> Try it regardless. You'll probably find that performance is fine.
>> Don't prematurely optimize!
>>
>> ChrisA
> 
> But it was already working and optimized. The python3 approach forces
> me to make changes to working code and make the performance worse.


What exactly is the problem here? Is it just that the built-in "cmp"
function is gone? Then define your own:

def cmp(a, b):
    """Return negative if a<b, zero if a==b, positive if a>b."""
    return (b < a) - (a < b)


That's pretty much how it works in terms of Python operators. It may be very
slightly different in some corner cases, but you may not notice unless
you're using some weird objects.

If that's not good enough, you can copy the code from the built-in cmp from
the 2.7 release and make a C extension. Or just duplicate the built-in cmp
semantics even more closely. To do that, you have to look at the C code.

In Python 2.7, the built-in cmp is implemented as PyObject_Cmp.

https://hg.python.org/cpython/file/2.7/Python/bltinmodule.c

PyObject_Cmp does some error-checking, then calls PyObject_Compare:

https://hg.python.org/cpython/file/2.7/Objects/abstract.c

PyObject_Compare does some error-checking, then it checks for object
identity (as an optimization), then calls do_cmp:

https://hg.python.org/cpython/file/2.7/Objects/object.c

do_cmp has a bunch of logic to decide whether to use rich comparisons or the
legacy __cmp__ method, and then calls one of a bunch of functions. If you
care, I recommend that you read them yourself, because I'm not fluent with
C. But as near as I can tell, the logic is basically:

(1) if both arguments a and b are the same, and they define __cmp__, 
    then return the result of type(a).__cmp__(a, b);

(2) otherwise try in this order a == b, a < b, a > b, and return
    the appropriate value for the first which succeeds (if any);

(3) otherwise (there are no comparison operators defined at all,
    so if a and b are the same type, return 
    cmp(address of a, address of b) (yes, this is insane);

(4) if they're different types, there are a bunch of arbitrary rules 
    that decide which object comes first, all subject to change 
    without warning:

- None is smaller than everything;
- numbers are smaller than other things;
- otherwise compare type names;
- if the type names happen to be the same, or if the numeric values
  are incompatible, then compare the object addresses.


I've simplified a lot: there's extra handling for classic classes, and
warnings if __cmp__ doesn't return -1, 0 or 1, and lots of error checking.
In a nutshell, cmp in Python 2 is a tangled mess. I'm not surprised the
devs wanted to get rid of it.


-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr  8 08:07:29 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 22:07:29 +1000
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be> <85wpo95dpo.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <570761B2.3060800@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.71.1460101559.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57079f03$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 05:45 pm, Antoon Pardon wrote:

> Op 07-04-16 om 23:08 schreef Ben Finney:
>> Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> writes:
>>
>>> With this method I have to traverse the two tuples almost always
>>> twice. Once to find out if they are equal and if not a second time to
>>> find out which is greater.
>> You are essentially describing the new internal API of comparison
>> operators. That's pretty much unavoidable.
> 
> And nobody thought about this kind of cases or found them important
> enough?

Probably not.

But you know, if you can demonstrate a genuine and severe slowdown with no
easy work-around, you should report it as a bug. It wouldn't be the first
time that functions removed from Python 3 have been re-added because it
turned out that they were needed.



>> If you want to avoid repeating an expensive operation ? the computation
>> of the comparison value for an object ? you could add an LRU cache to
>> that function. See ?functools.lru_cache?.
> 
> I'll have a look.

I would be stunned if tuple comparisons with only a handful of values were
slow enough that its worth caching their results with an lru_cache. But try
it, and see how you go.




-- 
Steven



From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr  8 08:52:34 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 15:52:34 +0300
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be> <85wpo95dpo.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <570761B2.3060800@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.71.1460101559.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <57079f03$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87fuuwfejx.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:

> I would be stunned if tuple comparisons with only a handful of values
> were slow enough that its worth caching their results with an
> lru_cache. But try it, and see how you go.

There are two ways your Python program can be slow:

 * You are doing something stupid like an O(exp(n)) when there is an
   O(n**2) available.

 * Python is inherently slower than C by a constant factor.

If you are doing something stupid, do refactor your code. But you
shouldn't try to make artificial optimizations to your code to make it
perform more like C. Write it in C, maybe partially, if you have to.

For example, your performance measurements might show that Python's
method calls are slow. That may be true but it is no invitation to
eliminate method calls from your code.


Marko


From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 09:27:30 2016
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:27:30 -0400
Subject: I'd like to add -march=native to my pip builds
Message-ID: <ne8bk2$mrm$1@ger.gmane.org>

I'd like to add -march=native to my pip builds.  How can I do this?




From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Fri Apr  8 09:31:58 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 15:31:58 +0200
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <85fuuw5ypl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be> <85fuuw5ypl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <5707B2CE.1010407@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 08-04-16 om 09:47 schreef Ben Finney:
> Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> writes:
>
>> But it was already working and optimized. The python3 approach forces
>> me to make changes to working code and make the performance worse.
> Yes, changing from Python 2 to Python 3 entails changing working code,
> and entails different implementations for some things.
>
> As for worse performance, that is something you can objectively measure.
> What is the size of the performance reduction you have objectively
> measured from this change?

Well having a list of 1000 Sequence like object. Each sequence
containing between 1 and 100 numbers. Comparing each sequence
to each other a 100 times. I get the following results.

Doing it as follows:
    seq1 < seq2
    seq2 < seq1

takes about 110 seconds.


Doing it like this:
    delta = cmp(seq1, seq2)
    delta < 0
    delta > 0

takes about 50 seconds.

Comparing was done by just iterating over the two sequences and
the first time both numbers were not the same, returning the difference
of the numbers

Granted, this test just lifted the comparison code from the module.
What was interesting was that the worst case in python3 was comparable
to the better case in python2.

-- 
Antoon.



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Fri Apr  8 09:38:09 2016
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 15:38:09 +0200
Subject: I'd like to add -march=native to my pip builds
In-Reply-To: <ne8bk2$mrm$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <ne8bk2$mrm$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <ne8c84$221$1@ger.gmane.org>

Neal Becker schrieb am 08.04.2016 um 15:27:
> I'd like to add -march=native to my pip builds.  How can I do this?

First of all, make sure you don't install binary packages and wheels.
Changing the C compiler flags will require source builds.

Then, it should be enough to set the CFLAGS environment variable, e.g.

  CFLAGS="-O3 -march=native"  pip install  --no-use-wheel  numpy

Stefan




From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 09:42:57 2016
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:42:57 -0400
Subject: I'd like to add -march=native to my pip builds
References: <ne8bk2$mrm$1@ger.gmane.org> <ne8c84$221$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <ne8ch1$59g$1@ger.gmane.org>

Stefan Behnel wrote:

> CFLAGS="-O3 -march=native"  pip install  --no-use-wheel

Thanks, not bad.  But no way to put this in a config file so I don't have to 
remember it, I guess?



From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr  8 09:52:05 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 16:52:05 +0300
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be> <85fuuw5ypl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <5707B2CE.1010407@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.81.1460122331.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87bn5kfbsq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be>:

> Well having a list of 1000 Sequence like object. Each sequence
> containing between 1 and 100 numbers. Comparing each sequence
> to each other a 100 times. I get the following results.
>
> Doing it as follows:
>     seq1 < seq2
>     seq2 < seq1
>
> takes about 110 seconds.
>
> Doing it like this:
>     delta = cmp(seq1, seq2)
>     delta < 0
>     delta > 0
>
> takes about 50 seconds.

Looks like a completely artificial scenario.


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 10:08:38 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 00:08:38 +1000
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <5707B2CE.1010407@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be> <85fuuw5ypl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <5707B2CE.1010407@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrMv5O5vwrbfHJJCdiHi87naPOanhPmk4Ba_SLRgu1m4Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 11:31 PM, Antoon Pardon
<antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
> Doing it as follows:
>     seq1 < seq2
>     seq2 < seq1
>
> takes about 110 seconds.
>
>
> Doing it like this:
>     delta = cmp(seq1, seq2)
>     delta < 0
>     delta > 0
>
> takes about 50 seconds.

Why are you comparing in both directions, though? cmp() is more
equivalent to this:

seq1 == seq2
seq1 < seq2

You only need ONE comparison, and the other is presumed to be its
opposite. When, in the Python 3 version, would you need to compare
twice?

ChrisA


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 10:17:17 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 08:17:17 -0600
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <570778ad$0$1587$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.21.1460030738.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3egfqiv.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <570778ad$0$1587$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidn7p8z7AE-HjZRuaZiFPQ1Je793_OHA5H7VYc8DVCu74A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 3:23 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 06:34 pm, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>
>> Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be>:
>>
>>> In python2 descending the tree would only involve at most one
>>> expensive comparison, because using cmp would codify that comparison
>>> into an integer which would then be cheap to compare with 0. Now in
>>> python3, I may need to do two expensive comparisons, because there is
>>> no __cmp__ method, to make such a codefication.
>>
>> I think you should base your tree implementation on key.__lt__() only.
>> Only compare keys using <, nothing else, ever.
>
> I believe that's how list.sort() and sorted() work:
>
> py> class Spam(object):
> ...     def __init__(self, n):
> ...             self.n = n
> ...     def __lt__(self, other):
> ...             return self.n < other.n
> ...     def __repr__(self):
> ...             return repr(self.n)
> ...
> py> L = [Spam(5), Spam(3), Spam(9), Spam(1), Spam(2)]
> py> L
> [5, 3, 9, 1, 2]
> py> sorted(L)
> [1, 2, 3, 5, 9]
>
>
> as well as max() and min().

That's fine for those operations and probably insert, but how do you
search an AVL tree for a specific key without also using __eq__?


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Fri Apr  8 10:20:08 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 16:20:08 +0200
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrMv5O5vwrbfHJJCdiHi87naPOanhPmk4Ba_SLRgu1m4Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be> <85fuuw5ypl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <5707B2CE.1010407@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrMv5O5vwrbfHJJCdiHi87naPOanhPmk4Ba_SLRgu1m4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5707BE18.1050805@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 08-04-16 om 16:08 schreef Chris Angelico:
> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 11:31 PM, Antoon Pardon
> <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
>> Doing it as follows:
>>     seq1 < seq2
>>     seq2 < seq1
>>
>> takes about 110 seconds.
>>
>>
>> Doing it like this:
>>     delta = cmp(seq1, seq2)
>>     delta < 0
>>     delta > 0
>>
>> takes about 50 seconds.
> Why are you comparing in both directions, though? cmp() is more
> equivalent to this:
>
> seq1 == seq2
> seq1 < seq2

That doesn't make a difference.

> You only need ONE comparison, and the other is presumed to be its
> opposite. When, in the Python 3 version, would you need to compare
> twice?

About 50% of the time. When I traverse the tree I go left when the
argument key is smaller than the node key, I go right when it is
greater than the node key and I have found the node I want when
they are equal.

-- 
Antoon Pardon



From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Fri Apr  8 10:22:07 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 16:22:07 +0200
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <87bn5kfbsq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be> <85fuuw5ypl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <5707B2CE.1010407@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.81.1460122331.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5kfbsq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <5707BE8F.9050408@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 08-04-16 om 15:52 schreef Marko Rauhamaa:
> Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be>:
>
>> Well having a list of 1000 Sequence like object. Each sequence
>> containing between 1 and 100 numbers. Comparing each sequence
>> to each other a 100 times. I get the following results.
>>
>> Doing it as follows:
>>     seq1 < seq2
>>     seq2 < seq1
>>
>> takes about 110 seconds.
>>
>> Doing it like this:
>>     delta = cmp(seq1, seq2)
>>     delta < 0
>>     delta > 0
>>
>> takes about 50 seconds.
> Looks like a completely artificial scenario.
>
It is the code I run when I traverse a tree
and decide either to go left, right or have
found the node I am looking for.

And yes I have worked with keys like that.

-- 
Antoon



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 10:22:46 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 08:22:46 -0600
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrMv5O5vwrbfHJJCdiHi87naPOanhPmk4Ba_SLRgu1m4Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be> <85fuuw5ypl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <5707B2CE.1010407@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrMv5O5vwrbfHJJCdiHi87naPOanhPmk4Ba_SLRgu1m4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=U5BWiLB2Z+aXS6vd3nPM0rvSUrVgYt4f089L5nEfgNQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 8:08 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 11:31 PM, Antoon Pardon
> <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
>> Doing it as follows:
>>     seq1 < seq2
>>     seq2 < seq1
>>
>> takes about 110 seconds.
>>
>>
>> Doing it like this:
>>     delta = cmp(seq1, seq2)
>>     delta < 0
>>     delta > 0
>>
>> takes about 50 seconds.
>
> Why are you comparing in both directions, though? cmp() is more
> equivalent to this:
>
> seq1 == seq2
> seq1 < seq2
>
> You only need ONE comparison, and the other is presumed to be its
> opposite. When, in the Python 3 version, would you need to compare
> twice?

When there are three possible code paths depending on the result.

def search(key, node):
    if node is None:
        raise KeyError(key)
    if key < node.key:
        return search(key, node.left)
    elif key == node.key:
        return node
    else:
        return search(key, node.right)

How would you implement this with only one comparison?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 10:25:26 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 00:25:26 +1000
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <5707BE18.1050805@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be> <85fuuw5ypl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <5707B2CE.1010407@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrMv5O5vwrbfHJJCdiHi87naPOanhPmk4Ba_SLRgu1m4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5707BE18.1050805@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoMuqwg0Q_fp=qitC3wWkXYHtdqBNVGzO+3ToAmsgit8Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 12:20 AM, Antoon Pardon
<antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
>> You only need ONE comparison, and the other is presumed to be its
>> opposite. When, in the Python 3 version, would you need to compare
>> twice?
>
> About 50% of the time. When I traverse the tree I go left when the
> argument key is smaller than the node key, I go right when it is
> greater than the node key and I have found the node I want when
> they are equal.

How about this:

You have found the node if they are equal.
Otherwise, go left if your argument is smaller than the node.
Otherwise, go right.

You don't have to do three comparisons, only two - and one of them is
an equality, rather than an inequality, which is often cheaper. But
hey. If you really can't handle the double comparison, *write your
own* special-purpose comparison function - nobody's stopping you! It's
just not something that exists *in the language*. If your specific
objects need this, write it!

ChrisA


From random832 at fastmail.com  Fri Apr  8 10:29:10 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 10:29:10 -0400
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrMv5O5vwrbfHJJCdiHi87naPOanhPmk4Ba_SLRgu1m4Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be> <85fuuw5ypl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <5707B2CE.1010407@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrMv5O5vwrbfHJJCdiHi87naPOanhPmk4Ba_SLRgu1m4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1460125750.1451220.572931817.3E46D651@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016, at 10:08, Chris Angelico wrote:
> seq1 == seq2
> seq1 < seq2
> 
> You only need ONE comparison, and the other is presumed to be its
> opposite. When, in the Python 3 version, would you need to compare
> twice?

== might be just as expensive as the others, particularly if the
sequences are unlikely to share object identity. I suspect he chose "s1
< s2; s2 < s1" precisely because someone suggested in another post on
this thread to exclusively use the less-than operator on purity grounds.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 10:30:13 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 00:30:13 +1000
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid=U5BWiLB2Z+aXS6vd3nPM0rvSUrVgYt4f089L5nEfgNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be> <85fuuw5ypl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <5707B2CE.1010407@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrMv5O5vwrbfHJJCdiHi87naPOanhPmk4Ba_SLRgu1m4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALwzid=U5BWiLB2Z+aXS6vd3nPM0rvSUrVgYt4f089L5nEfgNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpGwZ+CKHoZ9SFqCAhs9yTuibV5SbBOBAcBvgVtRL4YQQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 12:22 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
>> seq1 == seq2
>> seq1 < seq2
>>
>> You only need ONE comparison, and the other is presumed to be its
>> opposite. When, in the Python 3 version, would you need to compare
>> twice?
>
> When there are three possible code paths depending on the result.
>
> def search(key, node):
>     if node is None:
>         raise KeyError(key)
>     if key < node.key:
>         return search(key, node.left)
>     elif key == node.key:
>         return node
>     else:
>         return search(key, node.right)
>
> How would you implement this with only one comparison?

I was assuming that the equality check could be a lot cheaper than the
inequality, which is often the case when it is false (it's pretty easy
to prove that two enormous objects are different - any point of
difference proves it). Doing the equality check first generally means
you're paying the price of one expensive lookup each time.

If proving that x != y is expensive too, then call it two comparisons
rather than three. But you still don't need to check both directions
of inequality.

ChrisA


From 1leefig at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 12:00:52 2016
From: 1leefig at gmail.com (1leefig at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 09:00:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 3.4 problem with requests module
Message-ID: <cf3f3eab-6d8d-49d4-932a-b3905f5bac53@googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

I would appreciate any thoughts that you may have regarding a troublesome build error. I am at my wits end.

For some strange reason a get a single error on importing. It's to do with the requests module and pyopenssl.py

The comment block indicates:
This needs the following packages installed:

* pyOpenSSL (tested with 0.13)
* ndg-httpsclient (tested with 0.3.2)
* pyasn1 (tested with 0.1.6)

I have done this.

The requests module then imports:
from __future__ import absolute_import

try:
    from ndg.httpsclient.ssl_peer_verification import SUBJ_ALT_NAME_SUPPORT
    from ndg.httpsclient.subj_alt_name import SubjectAltName as BaseSubjectAltName
except SyntaxError as e:
    raise ImportError(e)

import OpenSSL.SSL
from pyasn1.codec.der import decoder as der_decoder
from pyasn1.type import univ, constraint
from socket import _fileobject, timeout, error as SocketError

But I get a python exception on this last line:

ImportError was unhandled by user code
Message: cannot import name '_fileobject'


I am running Python 3.4 and had no problems previously. 

I am not sure if its to do with the csv fetcher functionality and have tried everything.

Thanks


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 12:24:54 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 02:24:54 +1000
Subject: Python 3.4 problem with requests module
In-Reply-To: <cf3f3eab-6d8d-49d4-932a-b3905f5bac53@googlegroups.com>
References: <cf3f3eab-6d8d-49d4-932a-b3905f5bac53@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr9AkWiJKKPWtHMz89pDmLb4HdRmChWDUxVxwe-ch5nqA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 2:00 AM,  <1leefig at gmail.com> wrote:
> from socket import _fileobject, timeout, error as SocketError
>
> But I get a python exception on this last line:
>
> ImportError was unhandled by user code
> Message: cannot import name '_fileobject'
>
>
> I am running Python 3.4 and had no problems previously.

This looks like a shadowed import problem. Try running this:

import socket
print(socket.__file__)

If all's well, you should get a file path that points to your Python
installation (for me, "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/socket.py"). If it
tells you something about your current directory, check for a file
called socket.py or socket.pyc and rename or delete it - you've
shadowed the standard library module.

ChrisA


From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr  8 12:27:48 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 02:27:48 +1000
Subject: Python 3.4 problem with requests module
References: <cf3f3eab-6d8d-49d4-932a-b3905f5bac53@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5707dc05$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 02:00 am, 1leefig at gmail.com wrote:

> import OpenSSL.SSL
> from pyasn1.codec.der import decoder as der_decoder
> from pyasn1.type import univ, constraint
> from socket import _fileobject, timeout, error as SocketError
> 
> But I get a python exception on this last line:
> 
> ImportError was unhandled by user code
> Message: cannot import name '_fileobject'

If you run this:


import socket
print(socket.__file__)


what does it say?




-- 
Steven



From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr  8 12:33:22 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 19:33:22 +0300
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.21.1460030738.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3egfqiv.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <570778ad$0$1587$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CALwzidn7p8z7AE-HjZRuaZiFPQ1Je793_OHA5H7VYc8DVCu74A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.85.1460125085.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87d1q0giwd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com>:

> That's fine for those operations and probably insert, but how do you
> search an AVL tree for a specific key without also using __eq__?

Not needed:

========================================================================
if key < node.key:
    look_right()
elif node.key < key:
    look_left()
else:
    found_it()
========================================================================


Marko


From rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid  Fri Apr  8 12:59:59 2016
From: rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid (Rob Gaddi)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 16:59:59 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python programs and relative imports
References: <ndu70d$m0t$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <ne8o2e$van$1@dont-email.me>

Rob Gaddi wrote:

> Does anyone know the history of why relative imports are only available
> for packages and not for "programs"?  It certainly complicates life.
>

Really, no one?  It seems like a fairly obvious thing to have included;
all of the reasons that you want to be explicit in saying:

  from . import mypkg

in a package apply just as well in an executable script.  But instead,
they've got different semantics such that you expressly _cannot_ use
relative imports in a script.  This feels like such a glaring oversight
that there must have been some rationale behind it.

-- 
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com
Email address domain is currently out of order.  See above to fix.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 13:05:43 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 11:05:43 -0600
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <87d1q0giwd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.21.1460030738.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3egfqiv.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <570778ad$0$1587$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CALwzidn7p8z7AE-HjZRuaZiFPQ1Je793_OHA5H7VYc8DVCu74A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.85.1460125085.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87d1q0giwd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=Bz6Xsz_G3NGJSYNuSYRyDB9JiM7KXAshg-LPcwGckvA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 10:33 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com>:
>
>> That's fine for those operations and probably insert, but how do you
>> search an AVL tree for a specific key without also using __eq__?
>
> Not needed:
>
> ========================================================================
> if key < node.key:
>     look_right()
> elif node.key < key:
>     look_left()
> else:
>     found_it()
> ========================================================================

That makes me a little nervous since it assumes that the keys are
totally ordered and could return an incorrect node if they aren't.
Granted, the keys *should* be totally ordered if the data structure is
being used properly, but an explicit equality check ensures that the
worst that could happen is the node simply isn't found despite being
present.

More to the contextual point, this is still doing two comparisons,
even if both of them are less than, so it doesn't really solve the
OP's issue.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 13:11:06 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 03:11:06 +1000
Subject: Python programs and relative imports
In-Reply-To: <ne8o2e$van$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ndu70d$m0t$1@dont-email.me>
	<ne8o2e$van$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpNZkGE+eg_OnGYBw=0EDnGXq-KysE0qLiPNTp7NLATbA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 2:59 AM, Rob Gaddi
<rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid> wrote:
> Rob Gaddi wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know the history of why relative imports are only available
>> for packages and not for "programs"?  It certainly complicates life.
>>
>
> Really, no one?  It seems like a fairly obvious thing to have included;
> all of the reasons that you want to be explicit in saying:
>
>   from . import mypkg
>
> in a package apply just as well in an executable script.  But instead,
> they've got different semantics such that you expressly _cannot_ use
> relative imports in a script.  This feels like such a glaring oversight
> that there must have been some rationale behind it.

You can use the simple "import mypkg" syntax to load these up. I'm not
sure what you're looking for - do you want to prevent that syntax from
working, to prevent accidental shadowing?

ChrisA


From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr  8 13:14:28 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 20:14:28 +0300
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.21.1460030738.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3egfqiv.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <570778ad$0$1587$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CALwzidn7p8z7AE-HjZRuaZiFPQ1Je793_OHA5H7VYc8DVCu74A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.85.1460125085.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <87d1q0giwd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CALwzid=Bz6Xsz_G3NGJSYNuSYRyDB9JiM7KXAshg-LPcwGckvA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.93.1460135185.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <878u0oggzv.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com>:

> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 10:33 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> That's fine for those operations and probably insert, but how do you
>>> search an AVL tree for a specific key without also using __eq__?
>>
>> Not needed:
>>
>> ========================================================================
>> if key < node.key:
>>     look_right()
>> elif node.key < key:
>>     look_left()
>> else:
>>     found_it()
>> ========================================================================
>
> That makes me a little nervous since it assumes that the keys are
> totally ordered and could return an incorrect node if they aren't.

That's all the more reason to tie the order explicitly to < and nothing
else.

> Granted, the keys *should* be totally ordered if the data structure is
> being used properly, but an explicit equality check ensures that the
> worst that could happen is the node simply isn't found despite being
> present.

Well, how do you know how __eq__ and __lt__ are related?

Better simply *define* a *match* as

   not key < node.key and not node.key < key

> More to the contextual point, this is still doing two comparisons,
> even if both of them are less than, so it doesn't really solve the
> OP's issue.

I'm not sure the OP has a real issue. If *that* is a real issue, I
recommend a different programming language. Thing is, I bet method calls
are the single most expensive Python operation, yet would anyone suggest
avoiding method calls?


Marko


From pkpearson at nowhere.invalid  Fri Apr  8 13:21:58 2016
From: pkpearson at nowhere.invalid (Peter Pearson)
Date: 8 Apr 2016 17:21:58 GMT
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net>

On Fri, 08 Apr 2016 16:00:10 +1000, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 02:51 am, Peter Pearson wrote:
>> 
>> The Unicode consortium was certifiably insane when it went into the
>> typesetting business.
>
> They are not, and never have been, in the typesetting business. Perhaps
> characters are not the only things easily confused *wink*

Defining codepoints that deal with appearance but not with meaning is
going into the typesetting business.  Examples: ligatures, and spaces of
varying widths with specific typesetting properties like being non-breaking.

Typesetting done in MS Word using such Unicode codepoints will never
be more than a goofy approximation to real typesetting (e.g., TeX), but
it will cost a huge amount of everybody's time, with the current discussion
of ligatures in variable names being just a straw in the wind.  Getting
all the world's writing systems into a single, coherent standard was
an extraordinarily ambitious, monumental undertaking, and I'm baffled
that the urge to broaden its scope in this irrelevant direction was
entertained at all.

(Should this have been in cranky-geezer font?)

-- 
To email me, substitute nowhere->runbox, invalid->com.


From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr  8 13:44:10 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 20:44:10 +0300
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Peter Pearson <pkpearson at nowhere.invalid>:

> On Fri, 08 Apr 2016 16:00:10 +1000, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> They are not, and never have been, in the typesetting business.
>> Perhaps characters are not the only things easily confused *wink*
>
> Defining codepoints that deal with appearance but not with meaning is
> going into the typesetting business. Examples: ligatures, and spaces
> of varying widths with specific typesetting properties like being
> non-breaking.
>
> Typesetting done in MS Word using such Unicode codepoints will never
> be more than a goofy approximation to real typesetting (e.g., TeX),
> but it will cost a huge amount of everybody's time, with the current
> discussion of ligatures in variable names being just a straw in the
> wind. Getting all the world's writing systems into a single, coherent
> standard was an extraordinarily ambitious, monumental undertaking, and
> I'm baffled that the urge to broaden its scope in this irrelevant
> direction was entertained at all.

I agree completely but at the same time have a lot of understanding for
the reasons why Unicode had to become such a mess. Part of it is
historical, part of it is political, yet part of it is in the
unavoidable messiness of trying to define what a character is.

For example, is "?" one character or two: "a" plus "?"? Is "i" one
character of two: "?" plus "?"? Is writing linear or two-dimensional?

Unicode heroically and definitively solved the problems ASCII had posed
but introduced a bag of new, trickier problems.

(As for ligatures, I understand that there might be quite a bit of
legacy software that dedicated code points and code pages for ligatures.
Translating that legacy software to Unicode was made more
straightforward by introducing analogous codepoints to Unicode. Unicode
has quite many such codepoints: ?, ?, ? etc.)


Marko


From rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid  Fri Apr  8 13:50:15 2016
From: rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid (Rob Gaddi)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 17:50:15 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python programs and relative imports
References: <ndu70d$m0t$1@dont-email.me> <ne8o2e$van$1@dont-email.me>
 <CAPTjJmpNZkGE+eg_OnGYBw=0EDnGXq-KysE0qLiPNTp7NLATbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.94.1460135468.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ne8r0n$b70$1@dont-email.me>

Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 2:59 AM, Rob Gaddi
> <rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid> wrote:
>> Rob Gaddi wrote:
>>
>>> Does anyone know the history of why relative imports are only available
>>> for packages and not for "programs"?  It certainly complicates life.
>>>
>>
>> Really, no one?  It seems like a fairly obvious thing to have included;
>> all of the reasons that you want to be explicit in saying:
>>
>>   from . import mypkg
>>
>> in a package apply just as well in an executable script.  But instead,
>> they've got different semantics such that you expressly _cannot_ use
>> relative imports in a script.  This feels like such a glaring oversight
>> that there must have been some rationale behind it.
>
> You can use the simple "import mypkg" syntax to load these up. I'm not
> sure what you're looking for - do you want to prevent that syntax from
> working, to prevent accidental shadowing?
>
> ChrisA

Sort of.  If I've got a directory full of files (in a package)
that I'm working on, the relative import semantics change based on
whether I'm one directory up and importing the package or in the same
directory and importing the files locally.  That is to say if I've got:

pkg/
  __init__.py
  a.py
  usedbya.py

then there is no single syntax I can use in a.py that allows me to both
sit in the pkg directory at the shell and poke at things and import pkg
from the higher level.

If the 'from . import usedbya' syntax were always available, then it
would work the same in either context.  And if as I refactored things,
as they moved in and out of packages, it would all still "just work" for
files that haven't moved relative to one another.

But it would also address the accidental shadowing issue.  If you could
use from __future__ import force_relative_imports in an exectable,
then the import semantics would ALWAYS be that "import xxx" looks in
sys.path and "from . import xxx" looks locally.  This is akin to what
the C preprocessor has done for decades by differentiating
  #include <stdio.h>
  #include "localdefs.h"

As is, it's a bit of a hodge podge.

-- 
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com
Email address domain is currently out of order.  See above to fix.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 13:50:16 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 03:50:16 +1000
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
In-Reply-To: <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net>
 <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpKa0W0ketunJiMBnjspqbwaANcP-_9AdB3vgynOw4NJg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 3:44 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Unicode heroically and definitively solved the problems ASCII had posed
> but introduced a bag of new, trickier problems.
>
> (As for ligatures, I understand that there might be quite a bit of
> legacy software that dedicated code points and code pages for ligatures.
> Translating that legacy software to Unicode was made more
> straightforward by introducing analogous codepoints to Unicode. Unicode
> has quite many such codepoints: ?, ?, ? etc.)

More specifically, Unicode solved the problems that *codepages* had
posed. And one of the principles of its design was that every
character in every legacy encoding had a direct representation as a
Unicode codepoint, allowing bidirectional transcoding for
compatibility. Perhaps if Unicode had existed from the dawn of
computing, we'd have less characters; but backward compatibility is
way too important to let a narrow purity argument sway it.

ChrisA


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 13:51:17 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 10:51:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
In-Reply-To: <mailman.63.1460091243.2253.python-list@python.org>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <e990973b-8777-4441-9401-b1b162b000fc@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmoyrpe5s_Ha2O5+Z9CnZmgF5ERhZD1bVUHpE3XyRMomMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.63.1460091243.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <df998f95-929f-4d7b-9eed-cde6bde040fa@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 8, 2016 at 10:24:17 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 2:43 PM, Rustom Mody  wrote:
> > No I am not clever/criminal enough to know how to write a text that is visually
> > close to
> > print "Hello World"
> > but is internally closer to
> > rm -rf /
> >
> > For me this:
> >  >>> ? = 1
> >>>> A = 2
> >>>> ? + 1 == A
> > True
> >>>>
> >
> >
> > is cure enough that I am not amused
> 
> To me, the above is a contrived example. And you can contrive examples
> that are just as confusing while still being ASCII-only, like
> swimmer/swirnmer in many fonts, or I and l, or any number of other
> visually-confusing glyphs. I propose that we ban the letters 'r' and
> 'l' from identifiers, to ensure that people can't mess with
> themselves.

swirnmer and swimmer are distinguished by squiting a bit
? and A only by digging down into the hex.
If you categorize them as similar/same... well I am not arguing...
will come to you when I am short of straw...


> 
> > Specifically as far as I am concerned if python were to throw back say
> > a ligature in an identifier as a syntax error -- exactly what python2 does --
> > I think it would be perfectly fine and a more sane choice
> 
> The ligature is handled straight-forwardly: it gets decomposed into
> its component letters. I'm not seeing a problem here.

Yes... there is no problem... HERE [I did say python gets this right that
haskell for example gets wrong]
Whats wrong is the whole approach of swallowing gobs of characters that
need not be legal at all and then getting indigestion:

Note the "non-normative" in
https://docs.python.org/3/reference/lexical_analysis.html#identifiers

If a language reference is not normative what is?


From pkpearson at nowhere.invalid  Fri Apr  8 14:03:24 2016
From: pkpearson at nowhere.invalid (Peter Pearson)
Date: 8 Apr 2016 18:03:24 GMT
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpKa0W0ketunJiMBnjspqbwaANcP-_9AdB3vgynOw4NJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.95.1460137824.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dmqa3cFhh8iU1@mid.individual.net>

On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 03:50:16 +1000, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 3:44 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
[snip]
>> (As for ligatures, I understand that there might be quite a bit of
>> legacy software that dedicated code points and code pages for ligatures.
>> Translating that legacy software to Unicode was made more
>> straightforward by introducing analogous codepoints to Unicode. Unicode
>> has quite many such codepoints: ?, ?, ? etc.)
>
> More specifically, Unicode solved the problems that *codepages* had
> posed. And one of the principles of its design was that every
> character in every legacy encoding had a direct representation as a
> Unicode codepoint, allowing bidirectional transcoding for
> compatibility. Perhaps if Unicode had existed from the dawn of
> computing, we'd have less characters; but backward compatibility is
> way too important to let a narrow purity argument sway it.

I guess with that historical perspective the current situation
seems almost inevitable.  Thanks.  And thanks to Steven D'Aprano
for other relevant insights.

-- 
To email me, substitute nowhere->runbox, invalid->com.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 14:04:01 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 04:04:01 +1000
Subject: Python programs and relative imports
In-Reply-To: <ne8r0n$b70$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ndu70d$m0t$1@dont-email.me> <ne8o2e$van$1@dont-email.me>
 <CAPTjJmpNZkGE+eg_OnGYBw=0EDnGXq-KysE0qLiPNTp7NLATbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.94.1460135468.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <ne8r0n$b70$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoGEn7fDyf-918tFeATB2oQEV3MTKdHnsEAi5dmVAcoEQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 3:50 AM, Rob Gaddi
<rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid> wrote:
> Sort of.  If I've got a directory full of files (in a package)
> that I'm working on, the relative import semantics change based on
> whether I'm one directory up and importing the package or in the same
> directory and importing the files locally.  That is to say if I've got:
>
> pkg/
>   __init__.py
>   a.py
>   usedbya.py
>
> then there is no single syntax I can use in a.py that allows me to both
> sit in the pkg directory at the shell and poke at things and import pkg
> from the higher level.
>
> If the 'from . import usedbya' syntax were always available, then it
> would work the same in either context.  And if as I refactored things,
> as they moved in and out of packages, it would all still "just work" for
> files that haven't moved relative to one another.

Ah, I see what you mean. You're working inside an actual package here.
So you can "cd ..; python3 -m pkg.a", or you can "python3 a.py", but
not both.

The simplest fix for that would be to allow "python3 -m .a" to mean
"current directory is a package". I don't think there's currently a
way to spell that, but it ought to be completely backward compatible.
You could raise this on python-ideas and see what people say.

ChrisA


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 14:04:53 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 11:04:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
In-Reply-To: <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
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 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 8, 2016 at 11:14:21 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Peter Pearson :
> 
> > On Fri, 08 Apr 2016 16:00:10 +1000, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> >> They are not, and never have been, in the typesetting business.
> >> Perhaps characters are not the only things easily confused *wink*
> >
> > Defining codepoints that deal with appearance but not with meaning is
> > going into the typesetting business. Examples: ligatures, and spaces
> > of varying widths with specific typesetting properties like being
> > non-breaking.
> >
> > Typesetting done in MS Word using such Unicode codepoints will never
> > be more than a goofy approximation to real typesetting (e.g., TeX),
> > but it will cost a huge amount of everybody's time, with the current
> > discussion of ligatures in variable names being just a straw in the
> > wind. Getting all the world's writing systems into a single, coherent
> > standard was an extraordinarily ambitious, monumental undertaking, and
> > I'm baffled that the urge to broaden its scope in this irrelevant
> > direction was entertained at all.
> 
> I agree completely but at the same time have a lot of understanding for
> the reasons why Unicode had to become such a mess. Part of it is
> historical, part of it is political, yet part of it is in the
> unavoidable messiness of trying to define what a character is.

There are standards and standards.
Just because they are standard does not make them useful, well-designed,
reasonable etc..

Its reasonably likely that all our keyboards start QWERT...
 Doesn't make it a sane design.

Likewise using NFKC to define the equivalence relation on identifiers
is analogous to saying: Since QWERTY has been in use for over a hundred years
its a perfectly good design. Just because NFKC has the stamp of the unicode
consortium it does not straightaway make it useful for all purposes


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 14:17:53 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 11:17:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
In-Reply-To: <dmqa3cFhh8iU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpKa0W0ketunJiMBnjspqbwaANcP-_9AdB3vgynOw4NJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.95.1460137824.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <dmqa3cFhh8iU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <f22de99e-9c4b-4afb-929a-100499e696a8@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 8, 2016 at 11:33:38 PM UTC+5:30, Peter Pearson wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 03:50:16 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 3:44 AM, Marko Rauhamaa  wrote:
> [snip]
> >> (As for ligatures, I understand that there might be quite a bit of
> >> legacy software that dedicated code points and code pages for ligatures.
> >> Translating that legacy software to Unicode was made more
> >> straightforward by introducing analogous codepoints to Unicode. Unicode
> >> has quite many such codepoints: ?, ?, ? etc.)
> >
> > More specifically, Unicode solved the problems that *codepages* had
> > posed. And one of the principles of its design was that every
> > character in every legacy encoding had a direct representation as a
> > Unicode codepoint, allowing bidirectional transcoding for
> > compatibility. Perhaps if Unicode had existed from the dawn of
> > computing, we'd have less characters; but backward compatibility is
> > way too important to let a narrow purity argument sway it.
> 
> I guess with that historical perspective the current situation
> seems almost inevitable.  Thanks.  And thanks to Steven D'Aprano
> for other relevant insights.

Strange view
In fact the unicode standard itself encourages not using the standard in its
entirety

5.12 Deprecation

In the Unicode Standard, the term deprecation is used somewhat differently than it is in some other standards. Deprecation is used to mean that a character or other feature is strongly discouraged from use. This should not, however, be taken as indicating that anything has been removed from the standard, nor that anything is planned for removal from the standard. Any such change is constrained by the Unicode Consortium Stability Policies [Stability].

For the Unicode Character Database, there are two important types of deprecation to be noted. First, an encoded character may be deprecated. Second, a character property may be deprecated.

When an encoded character is strongly discouraged from use, it is given the property value Deprecated=True. The Deprecated property is a binary property defined specifically to carry this information about Unicode characters. Very few characters are ever formally deprecated this way; it is not enough that a character be uncommon, obsolete, disliked, or not preferred. Only those few characters which have been determined by the UTC to have serious architectural defects or which have been determined to cause significant implementation problems are ever deprecated. Even in the most severe cases, such as the deprecated format control characters (U+206A..U+206F), an encoded character is never removed from the standard. Furthermore, although deprecated characters are strongly discouraged from use, and should be avoided in favor of other, more appropriate mechanisms, they may occur in data. Conformant implementations of Unicode processes such a Unicode normalization must handle even deprecated characters correctly.

I read this as saying that -- in addition to officially deprecated chars --
there ARE "uncommon, obsolete, disliked, or not preferred" chars
which sensible users should avoid using even though unicode as a standard is
compelled to keep supporting

Which translates into
- python as a language *implementing* unicode (eg in strings) needs to
do it completely if it is to be standard compliant
- python as a *user* of unicode (eg in identifiers) can (and IMHO should)
use better judgement


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 14:20:12 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 11:20:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
In-Reply-To: <f22de99e-9c4b-4afb-929a-100499e696a8@googlegroups.com>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpKa0W0ketunJiMBnjspqbwaANcP-_9AdB3vgynOw4NJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.95.1460137824.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <dmqa3cFhh8iU1@mid.individual.net>
 <f22de99e-9c4b-4afb-929a-100499e696a8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b66c49ef-4257-47c1-b6b5-9e851fd09d3c@googlegroups.com>

Adding link

On Friday, April 8, 2016 at 11:48:07 PM UTC+5:30, Rustom Mody wrote:
<Quote>
> 5.12 Deprecation
> 
> In the Unicode Standard, the term deprecation is used somewhat differently than it is in some other standards. Deprecation is used to mean that a character or other feature is strongly discouraged from use. This should not, however, be taken as indicating that anything has been removed from the standard, nor that anything is planned for removal from the standard. Any such change is constrained by the Unicode Consortium Stability Policies [Stability].
> 
> For the Unicode Character Database, there are two important types of deprecation to be noted. First, an encoded character may be deprecated. Second, a character property may be deprecated.
> 
> When an encoded character is strongly discouraged from use, it is given the property value Deprecated=True. The Deprecated property is a binary property defined specifically to carry this information about Unicode characters. Very few characters are ever formally deprecated this way; it is not enough that a character be uncommon, obsolete, disliked, or not preferred. Only those few characters which have been determined by the UTC to have serious architectural defects or which have been determined to cause significant implementation problems are ever deprecated. Even in the most severe cases, such as the deprecated format control characters (U+206A..U+206F), an encoded character is never removed from the standard. Furthermore, although deprecated characters are strongly discouraged from use, and should be avoided in favor of other, more appropriate mechanisms, they may occur in data. Conformant implementations of Unicode processes such a Unicode normalization must handle even deprecated characters correctly.

</Quote>

Link: http://unicode.org/reports/tr44/#Deprecation


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 14:26:52 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 12:26:52 -0600
Subject: Python programs and relative imports
In-Reply-To: <ne8r0n$b70$1@dont-email.me>
References: <ndu70d$m0t$1@dont-email.me> <ne8o2e$van$1@dont-email.me>
 <CAPTjJmpNZkGE+eg_OnGYBw=0EDnGXq-KysE0qLiPNTp7NLATbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.94.1460135468.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <ne8r0n$b70$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmtdE3roEpYYkTfHH3=CtZO-XtZDsSOroJ08VeGkqVBGQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Rob Gaddi
<rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid> wrote:
> Sort of.  If I've got a directory full of files (in a package)
> that I'm working on, the relative import semantics change based on
> whether I'm one directory up and importing the package or in the same
> directory and importing the files locally.  That is to say if I've got:
>
> pkg/
>   __init__.py
>   a.py
>   usedbya.py
>
> then there is no single syntax I can use in a.py that allows me to both
> sit in the pkg directory at the shell and poke at things and import pkg
> from the higher level.
>
> If the 'from . import usedbya' syntax were always available, then it
> would work the same in either context.

Not necessarily. Inside the package, 'from . import usedbya' is
effectively equivalent to 'import pkg.usedbya as usedbya'. Without the
package, all of these modules are at the top level, and 'from . import
usedbya' would conceptually be equivalent to 'import usedbya'. But
there's no guarantee that the 'usedbya' module at the top level of the
module tree is the same 'usedbya.py' file in the current directory; it
could be shadowed by some other module. Whereas with the package, the
packaging ensures that you'll get the module expect.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 14:27:16 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 04:27:16 +1000
Subject: Python 3.4 problem with requests module
In-Reply-To: <CAPFbfwd=VAPrrHe2uZ2QLV0YuNX9ia_M8LJgVkPBB5jqwgOtMA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cf3f3eab-6d8d-49d4-932a-b3905f5bac53@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmr9AkWiJKKPWtHMz89pDmLb4HdRmChWDUxVxwe-ch5nqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPFbfweS3+m7+q6gA35ypu534i_DV=SPQAFcazwEb46Wgunteg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPFbfwd=VAPrrHe2uZ2QLV0YuNX9ia_M8LJgVkPBB5jqwgOtMA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmott6G9mEmsiti9bc0sELU6Gdd9z9HA33dUVTmCsXHnHA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 4:24 AM, Lee Fig <1leefig at gmail.com> wrote:
> print(socket.__file__)
>
> seems to confirm that all is well. It refers to my Lib folder:
> C:\work\tools\WinPython-64bit-3.4.4.1\python-3.4.4.amd64\Lib\socket.py
>
> How frustrating. I will Google shadow importing as thats a new one on me.
> Please feel free to mention any further thoughts

Please respond to the list, so everyone can see things.

Did you run that from the exact same place that your imports were failing?

Try, immediately after the print call above, "import requests". Does
it still fail?

ChrisA


From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr  8 14:44:18 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 04:44:18 +1000
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <5707fc05$0$1603$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 03:21 am, Peter Pearson wrote:

> On Fri, 08 Apr 2016 16:00:10 +1000, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>
> wrote:
>> On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 02:51 am, Peter Pearson wrote:
>>> 
>>> The Unicode consortium was certifiably insane when it went into the
>>> typesetting business.
>>
>> They are not, and never have been, in the typesetting business. Perhaps
>> characters are not the only things easily confused *wink*
> 
> Defining codepoints that deal with appearance but not with meaning is
> going into the typesetting business.  Examples: ligatures, and spaces of
> varying widths with specific typesetting properties like being
> non-breaking.

Both of which are covered by the requirement that Unicode is capable of
representing legacy encodings/code pages.

Examples: MacRoman contains fl and fi ligatures, and NBSP. 

Non-breaking space is not so much a typesetting property as a semantic
property, that is, it deals with *meaning* (exactly what you suggested it
doesn't deal with). It is a space which doesn't break words.

Ligatures are a good example -- the Unicode consortium have explicitly
refused to add other ligatures beyond the handful needed for backwards
compatibility because they maintain that it is a typesetting issue that is
best handled by the font. There's even a FAQ about that very issue, and I
quote:

"The existing ligatures exist basically for compatibility and round-tripping
with non-Unicode character sets. Their use is discouraged. No more will be
encoded in any circumstances."

http://www.unicode.org/faq/ligature_digraph.html#Lig2


Unicode currently contains something of the order of one hundred and ten
thousand defined code points. I'm sure that if you went through the entire
list, with a sufficiently loose definition of "typesetting", you could
probably find some that exist only for presentation, and aren't covered by
the legacy encoding clause. So what? One swallow does not mean the season
is spring. Unicode makes an explicit rejection of being responsible for
typesetting. See their discussion on presentation forms:

http://www.unicode.org/faq/ligature_digraph.html#PForms

But I will grant you that sometimes there's a grey area between presentation
and semantics, and the Unicode consortium has to make a decision one way or
another. Those decisions may not always be completely consistent, and may
be driven by political and/or popular demand.

E.g. the Consortium explicitly state that stylistic issues such as bold,
italic, superscript etc are up to the layout engine or markup, and
shouldn't be part of the Unicode character set. They insist that they only
show representative glyphs for code points, and that font designers and
vendors are free (within certain limits) to modify the presentation as
desired. Nevertheless, there are specialist characters with distinct
formatting, and variant selectors for specifying a specific glyph, and
emoji modifiers for specifying skin tone.

But when you get down to fundamentals, character sets and alphabets have
always blurred the line between presentation and meaning. W ("double-u")
was, once upon a time, UU and & (ampersand) started off as a ligature
of "et" (Latin for "and"). There are always going to be cases where
well-meaning people can agree to disagree on whether or not adding the
character to Unicode was justified or not.




-- 
Steven



From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr  8 14:55:12 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 21:55:12 +0300
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmuc4$k4l$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>
 <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net>
 <5707fc05$0$1603$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87zit4exrj.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:

> But when you get down to fundamentals, character sets and alphabets have
> always blurred the line between presentation and meaning. W ("double-u")
> was, once upon a time, UU

But as every Finnish-speaker now knows, "w" is only an old-fashioned
typographic variant of the glyph "v". We still have people who write
"Wirtanen" or "Waltari" to make their last names look respectable and
19th-centrury-ish.


Marko


From sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 18:59:01 2016
From: sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com (sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 15:59:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.345.1459551446.28225.python-list@python.org>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.345.1459551446.28225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1f3a6628-863c-4e92-aa47-e5b3a80baf04@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 3:57:40 PM UTC-7, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 01/04/2016 23:44, sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 3:10:51 PM UTC-7, Michael Okuntsov wrote:
> >> Nevermind. for j in range(1,8) should be for j in range(8).
> >
> > I can't tell you how many times I've gotten bit in the ass with that off-by-one mistake whenever I use a range that doesn't start at zero.
> >
> > I know that if I want to loop 10 times and I either want to start at zero or just don't care about the actual number, I use `for i in range(10)`.  But if I want to loop from 10 to 20, my first instinct is to write `for i in range(10, 20)`, and then I'm left figuring out why my loop isn't executing the last step.
> >
> 
> "First instinct"?  "I expected"?  The Python docs might not be perfect, 
> but they were certainly adequate enough to get me going 15 years ago, 
> and since then they've improved.  So where is the problem, other than 
> failure to RTFM?
> 
> -- 
> My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
> what you can do for our language.
> 
> Mark Lawrence

Holy hell, why such an aggressive tone?

I understand how range(x, y) works.  It's just a simple mistake that I frequently do it wrong and have to correct it after the first time I run it.  It's not like I'm saying that the implementation needs to change.  I'm just saying that if I want to loop from 10 to 20, my first thought is to use range(10, 20).  It is slightly unintuitive.

*YES*, I know it is wrong.  *YES*, I understand why the correct usage would be range(10, 21) to get that list from 10 to 20.

Get off your high horse.  Not everybody is like you and has been using Python for 15 years and apparently never makes mistakes.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Apr  8 19:07:08 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 00:07:08 +0100
Subject: [beginner] What's wrong?
In-Reply-To: <1f3a6628-863c-4e92-aa47-e5b3a80baf04@googlegroups.com>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me> <ndmrer$t8j$1@dont-email.me>
 <99234e90-fcd4-4a05-b97f-b47228dde20c@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.345.1459551446.28225.python-list@python.org>
 <1f3a6628-863c-4e92-aa47-e5b3a80baf04@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ne9dj3$9m5$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 08/04/2016 23:59, sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 3:57:40 PM UTC-7, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>> On 01/04/2016 23:44, sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 3:10:51 PM UTC-7, Michael Okuntsov wrote:
>>>> Nevermind. for j in range(1,8) should be for j in range(8).
>>>
>>> I can't tell you how many times I've gotten bit in the ass with that off-by-one mistake whenever I use a range that doesn't start at zero.
>>>
>>> I know that if I want to loop 10 times and I either want to start at zero or just don't care about the actual number, I use `for i in range(10)`.  But if I want to loop from 10 to 20, my first instinct is to write `for i in range(10, 20)`, and then I'm left figuring out why my loop isn't executing the last step.
>>>
>>
>> "First instinct"?  "I expected"?  The Python docs might not be perfect,
>> but they were certainly adequate enough to get me going 15 years ago,
>> and since then they've improved.  So where is the problem, other than
>> failure to RTFM?
>>
>> --
>> My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
>> what you can do for our language.
>>
>> Mark Lawrence
>
> Holy hell, why such an aggressive tone?
>
> I understand how range(x, y) works.  It's just a simple mistake that I frequently do it wrong and have to correct it after the first time I run it.  It's not like I'm saying that the implementation needs to change.  I'm just saying that if I want to loop from 10 to 20, my first thought is to use range(10, 20).  It is slightly unintuitive.
>
> *YES*, I know it is wrong.  *YES*, I understand why the correct usage would be range(10, 21) to get that list from 10 to 20.
>
> Get off your high horse.  Not everybody is like you and has been using Python for 15 years and apparently never makes mistakes.
>

*plonk*

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From amyodov at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 19:54:15 2016
From: amyodov at gmail.com (Alexander Myodov)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 16:54:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: (Python 3.5) Asyncio and an attempt to run loop.run_until_complete()
 from within a running loop
Message-ID: <33e44698-2625-47c4-9595-00a8c79f27ad@googlegroups.com>

Hello.

TLDR: how can I use something like loop.run_until_complete(coro), to execute a coroutine synchronously, while the loop is already running?

More on this:

I was trying to create an aio_map(coro, iterable) function (which would asynchronously launch a coroutine for each iteration over iterable, and collect the data; similary to gevent.pool.Group.imap() from another async world), but stuck while attempting to make it well both from outside the async event loop and from inside one - any help?

My code is at http://paste.pound-python.org/show/EQvN2cSDp0xqXK56dUPy/ - and I stuck around lines 22-28, with the problem that loop.run_until_complete() cannot be executed when the loop is running already (raising "RuntimeError: Event loop is running."). Is it normal? and why is it so restrictive? And what can I do to wait for `coros` Future to be finished?

I tried various mixes of loop.run_forever() and even loop._run_once() there, but was not able to create a stable working code. Am I doing something completely wrong here? Am I expected to create a totally new event loop for synchronously waiting for the Future, if the current event loop is running - and if so, won't the previous event loop miss any its events?


Thank you in advance.
Alexander


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Apr  8 20:43:58 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 10:43:58 +1000
Subject: QWERTY was not designed to intentionally slow typists down (was:
 Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?])
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:

> [The QWERTY keyboard layout] was a sane design -- for early mechanical
> typewrites. It fulfills its goal of slowing down a typist to reduce
> jamming print-heads at the platen.

This is an often-repeated myth, with citations back as far as the 1970s.
It is false.

The design is intended to reduce jamming the print heads together, but
the goal of this is not to reduce speed, but to enable *fast* typing.

It aims to maximise the frequency in which (English-language) text has
consecutive letters alternating either side of the middle of the
keyboard. This should thus reduce collisions of nearby heads ? and hence
*increase* the effective typing speed that can be achieved on such a
mechanical typewriter.

The degree to which this maximum was achieved is arguable. Certainly the
relevance to keyboards today, with no connection from the layout to
whether print heads will jam, is negligible.

What is not arguable is that there is no evidence the design had any
intention of *slowing* typists in any way. Quite the opposite, in fact.

<URL:http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/221/was-the-qwerty-keyboard-purposely-designed-to-slow-typists>,
and other links from the Wikipedia article
<URL:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY#History_and_purposes>, should
allow interested people to get the facts right on this canard.

-- 
 \     ?I used to think that the brain was the most wonderful organ in |
  `\   my body. Then I realized who was telling me this.? ?Emo Philips |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From mcleamay219 at gotvdsb.ca  Fri Apr  8 20:53:20 2016
From: mcleamay219 at gotvdsb.ca (Amaya McLean)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 20:53:20 -0400
Subject: Repair??
Message-ID: <CAGZmQc09Z8GBh=6DjqXV5b3g8cU5KW+8Rbyhc9n4wX5yTA==sA@mail.gmail.com>

After I install Python, I try to run it, and it always says it needs to be
repaired, and when I do, it still doesn't fix the problem.
If you could help me out, that would be great!
Thanks,
Amaya


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Apr  8 21:24:23 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 11:24:23 +1000
Subject: Repair??
References: <CAGZmQc09Z8GBh=6DjqXV5b3g8cU5KW+8Rbyhc9n4wX5yTA==sA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <851t6f60c8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Amaya McLean <mcleamay219 at gotvdsb.ca> writes:

> After I install Python

How, specifically, are you installing Python? There are many ways, and
we can't guess which you use.

Which particular Python installation have you obtained? From what
specific URL? Python is available from many sources and we can't guess
which you obtained.

Onto which platform? Python is available for many, and we can't guess
which is relevant to your case.

> I try to run it

How do you try to run it? What action do you do? We can't guess that
either.

> and it always says it needs to be repaired, and when I do, it still
> doesn't fix the problem.

With some relevant details we may be able to help.

> If you could help me out, that would be great! Thanks, Amaya

Please also note that this is the community forum for Python, and by
posting here you are inviting open discussion among volunteers. This is
not an issue tracker nor a commercial support service. You're welcome
here, but I wanted to be clear on what you can expect :-)

-- 
 \     ?[H]ow deep can a truth be ? indeed, how true can it be ? if it |
  `\             is not built from facts?? ?Kathryn Schulz, 2015-10-19 |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From random832 at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 21:32:52 2016
From: random832 at gmail.com (Random832)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 21:32:52 -0400
Subject: test post please ignore
Message-ID: <1460165572.3643665.573423609.2D9C9973@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Testing posting from an email address other than the one I'm subscribed
in, to determine whether it's possible to post to the list without being
subscribed.


From random832 at fastmail.com  Fri Apr  8 22:27:32 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 22:27:32 -0400
Subject: Repair??
In-Reply-To: <851t6f60c8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <CAGZmQc09Z8GBh=6DjqXV5b3g8cU5KW+8Rbyhc9n4wX5yTA==sA@mail.gmail.com>
 <851t6f60c8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <1460168852.3652903.573445353.2FC428C0@webmail.messagingengine.com>

I suspect that the reason that a lot of people who report issues like
this don't seem to follow up is that they may not be subscribed to the
list, and replies are sent to the list exclusively.

Quoting the entire reply so they see it.

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016, at 21:24, Ben Finney wrote:
> Amaya McLean <mcleamay219 at gotvdsb.ca> writes:
> 
> > After I install Python
> 
> How, specifically, are you installing Python? There are many ways, and
> we can't guess which you use.
> 
> Which particular Python installation have you obtained? From what
> specific URL? Python is available from many sources and we can't guess
> which you obtained.
> 
> Onto which platform? Python is available for many, and we can't guess
> which is relevant to your case.
> 
> > I try to run it
> 
> How do you try to run it? What action do you do? We can't guess that
> either.
> 
> > and it always says it needs to be repaired, and when I do, it still
> > doesn't fix the problem.
> 
> With some relevant details we may be able to help.
> 
> > If you could help me out, that would be great! Thanks, Amaya
> 
> Please also note that this is the community forum for Python, and by
> posting here you are inviting open discussion among volunteers. This is
> not an issue tracker nor a commercial support service. You're welcome
> here, but I wanted to be clear on what you can expect :-)


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Apr  8 23:02:57 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 20:02:57 -0700
Subject: test post please ignore
In-Reply-To: <1460165572.3643665.573423609.2D9C9973@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1460165572.3643665.573423609.2D9C9973@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <570870E1.40907@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/08/2016 06:32 PM, Random832 wrote:

> Testing posting from an email address other than the one I'm subscribed
> in, to determine whether it's possible to post to the list without being
> subscribed.

Kinda.  :)

--
~Ethan~



From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr  8 23:28:48 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 13:28:48 +1000
Subject: QWERTY was not designed to intentionally slow typists down (was:
 Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?])
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.101.1460162658.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <570876f1$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 10:43 am, Ben Finney wrote:

> Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:
> 
>> [The QWERTY keyboard layout] was a sane design -- for early mechanical
>> typewrites. It fulfills its goal of slowing down a typist to reduce
>> jamming print-heads at the platen.
> 
> This is an often-repeated myth, with citations back as far as the 1970s.
> It is false.
> 
> The design is intended to reduce jamming the print heads together, but
> the goal of this is not to reduce speed, but to enable *fast* typing.

And how did it enable fast typing? By *slowing down the typist*, and thus
having fewer jams.

Honestly, I have the greatest respect for the Straight Dope, but this is one
of those times when they miss the forest for the trees. The conventional
wisdom about typewriters isn't wrong -- or at least there's no evidence
that it's wrong.

As far as I can, *every single* argument against the conventional wisdom
comes down to an argument that it is ridiculous or silly that anyone might
have wanted to slow typing down. For example, Wikipedia links to this page:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/fact-of-fiction-the-legend-of-the-qwerty-keyboard-49863249/?no-ist

which quotes researchers:

?The speed of Morse receiver should be equal to the Morse sender, of course.
If Sholes really arranged the keyboard to slow down the operator, the
operator became unable to catch up the Morse sender. We don?t believe that
Sholes had such a nonsense intention during his development of
Type-Writer.?

This is merely argument from personal incredibility:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity

and is trivially answerable: how well do you think the receiver can keep up
with the sender if they have to stop every few dozen keystrokes to unjam
the typewriter?

Wikipedia states:

"Contrary to popular belief, the QWERTY layout was not designed to slow the
typist down,[3]"

with the footnote [3] linking to

http://www.maltron.com/media/lillian_kditee_001.pdf

which clearly and prominently states in the THIRD paragraph:

"It has been said of the Sholes letter layout [QWERTY] this it would
probably have been chosen if the objective was to find the least
efficient -- in terms of learning time and speed achievable -- and the most
error producing character arrangement. This is not surprising when one
considers that a team of people spent one year developing this layout so
that it should provide THE GREATEST INHIBITION TO FAST KEYING. [Emphasis
added.] This was no Machiavellian plot, but necessary because the mechanism
of the early typewriters required slow operation."

This is the power of the "slowing typists down is a myth" meme: same
Wikipedia contributor takes an article which *clearly and obviously*
repeats the conventional narrative that QWERTY was designed to decrease the
number of key presses per second, and uses that to defend the counter-myth
that QWERTY wasn't designed to decrease the number of key presses per
second!

These are the historical facts:

- early typewriters had varying layouts, some of which allow much more rapid
keying than QWERTY;

- early typewriters were prone to frequent and difficult jamming;

- Sholes spend significant time developing a layout which reduced the number
of jams by intentionally moving frequently typed characters far apart,
which has the effect of slowing down the rate at which the typist can hit
keys;

- which results in greater typing speed do to a reduced number of jams.

In other words the conventional story.

Jams have such a massively negative effect on typing speed that reducing the
number of jams gives you a *huge* win on overall speed even if the rate of
keying is significantly lower. At first glance, it may seem paradoxical,
but it's not. Which is faster?

- typing at a steady speed of (lets say) 100 words per minute;

- typing in bursts of (say) 200 wpm for a minute, followed by three minutes
of 0 wpm.

The second case averages half the speed of the first, even though the typist
is hitting keys at a faster rate. This shouldn't be surprising to any car
driver who has raced from one red light to the next, only to be caught up
and even overtaken by somebody driving at a more sedate speed who caught
nothing but green lights. Or to anyone who has heard the story of the
Tortoise and the Hare.

The moral of QWERTY is "less haste, more speed".

The myth of the "QWERTY myth" is based on the idea that people are unable to
distinguish between peak speed and average speed. But ironically, in my
experience, it's only those repeating the myth who seem confused by that
difference (as in the quote from the Smithsonian above). Most people don't
need the conventional narrative explained:

"Speed up typing by slowing the typist down? Yeah, that makes sense. When I
try to do things in a rush, I make more mistakes and end up taking longer
than I otherwise would have. This is exactly the same sort of principle."

while others, like our dear Cecil from the Straight Dope, wrongly imagine
that ordinary folks cannot understand this rather simple concept, and
therefore must believe something which nobody has every said:

"QWERTY was designed to make typing slower."

Well, maybe Dvorak proponents, but they have an ulterior motive to
misrepresent the situation.





-- 
Steven



From frank at chagford.com  Sat Apr  9 01:08:52 2016
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 07:08:52 +0200
Subject: (Python 3.5) Asyncio and an attempt to run
 loop.run_until_complete() from within a running loop
In-Reply-To: <33e44698-2625-47c4-9595-00a8c79f27ad@googlegroups.com>
References: <33e44698-2625-47c4-9595-00a8c79f27ad@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nea2pa$d0c$1@ger.gmane.org>

"Alexander Myodov"  wrote in message 
news:33e44698-2625-47c4-9595-00a8c79f27ad at googlegroups.com...

> Hello.

> TLDR: how can I use something like loop.run_until_complete(coro), to 
> execute a coroutine synchronously, while the loop is already running?

I am no expert, but does this help?

"If you're handling coroutines there is an asyncio facility for "background 
tasks".  asyncio.ensure_future() will take a coroutine, attach it to a Task, 
and return a future to you that resolves when the coroutine is complete."

This advice was given to me a while back when I wanted to run a background 
task. It works perfectly for me.

Frank Millman




From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Sat Apr  9 04:30:27 2016
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 08:30:27 GMT
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <mailman.100.1460161208.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <D43Oy.790728$O02.451908@fx38.am4>

On Fri, 08 Apr 2016 20:20:02 -0400, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 11:04:53 -0700 (PDT), Rustom Mody
> <rustompmody at gmail.com> declaimed the following:
> 
>>Its reasonably likely that all our keyboards start QWERT...
>> Doesn't make it a sane design.
>>
> 	It was a sane design -- for early mechanical typewrites. It 
fulfills
> its goal of slowing down a typist to reduce jamming print-heads at the
> platen.* And since so many of us who had formal touch typing training
> probably learned on said mechanical typewriters, it hangs around.
> Fortunately, even though the typewriters at school had European
> dead-keys, we were plain English and I never had to pick them up.
> 
> 	For a few years I did have problems with ()... They were on 
different
> keys (8 and 9, respectively) on old typewriters (the type that also had
> no 1) vs IBM Selectrics (never used by be) and computer terminals...
> 
> 
> 
> * Except I kept jamming two letters of my last name... I and E are
> reached with the same finger on opposite hands, which made a fast
> stroke-pair (compare moving the same finger on both hands to moving
> different fingers).

<pedant Mode on>
the design of qwerty was not to "Slow" the typist bu to ensure that the 
hammers for letters commonly used together are spaced widely apart, 
reducing the portion of trier travel arc were the could jam.
I and E are actually such a pair which is why they are at opposite ends 
of the hammer rack (I doubt that is the correct technical term).
they are on opposite hands to make typing of them faster.
unfortunately as you found it is still possible to jam them if they are 
hit almost simultaneously
<Pedant Mode Off>



-- 
There's a trick to the Graceful Exit.  It begins with the vision to
recognize when a job, a life stage, a relationship is over -- and to let
go.  It means leaving what's over without denying its validity or its
past importance in our lives.  It involves a sense of future, a belief
that every exit line is an entry, that we are moving on, rather than out.
The trick of retiring well may be the trick of living well.  It's hard to
recognize that life isn't a holding action, but a process.  It's hard to
learn that we don't leave the best parts of ourselves behind, back in the
dugout or the office. We own what we learned back there.  The experiences
and the growth are grafted onto our lives.  And when we exit, we can take
ourselves along -- quite gracefully.
		-- Ellen Goodman


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Sat Apr  9 05:17:36 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 11:17:36 +0200
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmoMuqwg0Q_fp=qitC3wWkXYHtdqBNVGzO+3ToAmsgit8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be> <85fuuw5ypl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <5707B2CE.1010407@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrMv5O5vwrbfHJJCdiHi87naPOanhPmk4Ba_SLRgu1m4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5707BE18.1050805@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmoMuqwg0Q_fp=qitC3wWkXYHtdqBNVGzO+3ToAmsgit8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5708C8B0.6050904@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 08-04-16 om 16:25 schreef Chris Angelico:
> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 12:20 AM, Antoon Pardon
> <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
>>> You only need ONE comparison, and the other is presumed to be its
>>> opposite. When, in the Python 3 version, would you need to compare
>>> twice?
>>
>> About 50% of the time. When I traverse the tree I go left when the
>> argument key is smaller than the node key, I go right when it is
>> greater than the node key and I have found the node I want when
>> they are equal.
> 
> How about this:
> 
> You have found the node if they are equal.
> Otherwise, go left if your argument is smaller than the node.
> Otherwise, go right.
> 
> You don't have to do three comparisons, only two - and one of them is
> an equality, rather than an inequality, which is often cheaper.

You don't seem to understand. I only do two comparisons and no the
equality is not necesarrily cheaper.

I am talking about the difference between the following two:

    if arg.key < node.key:   # possible expensive computation
        go_left()
    elif arg.key == node.key # possible expensive computation
        found_node()
    else:
        go_right()

and

    delta = cmp(arg.key, node.key) # possible expensive computation
    if delta < 0:                  # cheap computation
        go_left()
    elif delta == 0:               # cheap computation
	found_node()
    else:
        go_right()

> But
> hey. If you really can't handle the double comparison, *write your
> own* special-purpose comparison function - nobody's stopping you! It's
> just not something that exists *in the language*. If your specific
> objects need this, write it!

Sure I could do that, but it may not be worth the trouble without
language support. Just writing a cmp function is not sufficient, because
the trivial way to write it, will just hide the expense in that function.

For the moment I will probably go with Ben Finney's suggestion and go
with somekind of lru cache. So when I do one of the comparisons with
my own objects, it will do the expensive cmp-like computation behind
the scene and then return the result of the cheap computation. I just
check the cache before to see whether the result of the expensive
computation is already available.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From hongyi.zhao at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 07:10:14 2016
From: hongyi.zhao at gmail.com (Hongyi Zhao)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 11:10:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: conda: Fetching package metadata: SSL verification error: EOF
 occurred in violation of protocol (_ssl.c:645)
Message-ID: <neanum$rai$1@aspen.stu.neva.ru>

Hi all,

I use the latest conda, ie, Anaconda3-4.0.0-Linux-x86_64 to install some 
packages, but always meet the following error:


$ conda install conda-build
Using Anaconda Cloud api site https://api.anaconda.org
Fetching package metadata: SSL verification error: EOF occurred in 
violation of protocol (_ssl.c:645)
.SSL verification error: EOF occurred in violation of protocol 
(_ssl.c:645)
.SSL verification error: EOF occurred in violation of protocol 
(_ssl.c:645)
.SSL verification error: EOF occurred in violation of protocol 
(_ssl.c:645)
.

How to solve this issue?

Regards
-- 
.: Hongyi Zhao [ hongyi.zhao AT gmail.com ] Free as in Freedom :.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Apr  9 07:49:22 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 21:49:22 +1000
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be> <85fuuw5ypl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <5707B2CE.1010407@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrMv5O5vwrbfHJJCdiHi87naPOanhPmk4Ba_SLRgu1m4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5707BE18.1050805@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmoMuqwg0Q_fp=qitC3wWkXYHtdqBNVGzO+3ToAmsgit8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5708C8B0.6050904@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <85twjb3su5.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> writes:

> You don't seem to understand. I only do two comparisons and no the
> equality is not necesarrily cheaper.
>
> I am talking about the difference between the following two:
>
>     if arg.key < node.key:   # possible expensive computation
>         go_left()
>     elif arg.key == node.key # possible expensive computation
>         found_node()
>     else:
>         go_right()
>
> and
>
>     delta = cmp(arg.key, node.key) # possible expensive computation
>     if delta < 0:                  # cheap computation
>         go_left()
>     elif delta == 0:               # cheap computation
> 	found_node()
>     else:
>         go_right()

I find that a dubious claim.

The ?cmp? implementation must decide *at least* between three
conditions: less-than, equal-to, greater-than. That is *at least* two
inflection points.

The implementation of ?__lt__? and the implementation of ?__eq__? each
only need to decide two conditions (true, false). So that is *at most*
two inflection points.

If you're saying the latter implementation is somehow *more* expensive
than the former, I think the implementations are suspect and likely can
be improved: at least parity should be possible, to the point of
statistical insignificance.

-- 
 \        ?Perchance you who pronounce my sentence are in greater fear |
  `\   than I who receive it.? ?Giordano Bruno, burned at the stake by |
_o__)  the Catholic church for the heresy of heliocentrism, 1600-02-16 |
Ben Finney



From ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk  Sat Apr  9 09:43:39 2016
From: ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk (Ben Bacarisse)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 14:43:39 +0100
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <mailman.100.1460161208.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <D43Oy.790728$O02.451908@fx38.am4>
Message-ID: <87h9fa6gok.fsf@bsb.me.uk>

alister <alister.ware at ntlworld.com> writes:
<snip>
> <pedant Mode on>
> the design of qwerty was not to "Slow" the typist bu to ensure that the 
> hammers for letters commonly used together are spaced widely apart, 
> reducing the portion of trier travel arc were the could jam.
> I and E are actually such a pair which is why they are at opposite ends 
> of the hammer rack (I doubt that is the correct technical term).
> they are on opposite hands to make typing of them faster.
> unfortunately as you found it is still possible to jam them if they are 
> hit almost simultaneously
> <Pedant Mode Off>

The problem with that theory is that 'er/re' (this is e and r in either
order) is the 3rd most common pair in English but have been placed
together.  ou and et (in either order) are the 15th and 22nd most common
and they are separated by only one hammer position.  On the other hand,
the QWERTY layout puts jk together, but they almost never appear
together in English text.

-- 
Ben.


From josephcaulfield1996 at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 09:48:01 2016
From: josephcaulfield1996 at gmail.com (Joseph Caulfield)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 06:48:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: past exam paper help!
Message-ID: <a543defc-7b29-4eeb-8ab7-6a4f46aeae7c@googlegroups.com>

how would I model a mug  a cylindrical vessel with an open top in python? thansk :)


From josephcaulfield1996 at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 09:49:09 2016
From: josephcaulfield1996 at gmail.com (Joseph Caulfield)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 06:49:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: past exam paper help!
In-Reply-To: <a543defc-7b29-4eeb-8ab7-6a4f46aeae7c@googlegroups.com>
References: <a543defc-7b29-4eeb-8ab7-6a4f46aeae7c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <48c9d6c4-e4e4-4fd2-a962-5d50c5533c92@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 9, 2016 at 2:48:16 PM UTC+1, Joseph Caulfield wrote:
> how would I model a mug  a cylindrical vessel with an open top in python? thansk :)

*as a cylindrical vessel.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 10:11:53 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 08:11:53 -0600
Subject: past exam paper help!
In-Reply-To: <48c9d6c4-e4e4-4fd2-a962-5d50c5533c92@googlegroups.com>
References: <a543defc-7b29-4eeb-8ab7-6a4f46aeae7c@googlegroups.com>
 <48c9d6c4-e4e4-4fd2-a962-5d50c5533c92@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidk11gpMCTpT5H4JbZNT_Xfz+Qez1KFqvc4QVhgn2O6=Tw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 7:49 AM, Joseph Caulfield
<josephcaulfield1996 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, April 9, 2016 at 2:48:16 PM UTC+1, Joseph Caulfield wrote:
>> how would I model a mug  a cylindrical vessel with an open top in python? thansk :)
>
> *as a cylindrical vessel.

class Vessel:

    def __init__(self, shape, open_top=False):
        self.shape = shape
        self.open_top = open_top

mug = Vessel('cylindrical', open_top=True)


If that's not what you meant, then you'll have to be more specific.


From lildinho14 at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 10:18:45 2016
From: lildinho14 at gmail.com (Joe)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 07:18:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid
Message-ID: <8c570da8-ab31-44f3-9fdf-83e28741ffe4@googlegroups.com>

How to find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid
The movement of a robot in the field is divided into successive steps

In one step a robot can move either horizontally or vertically (in one row or in one column of cells) by some number of cells

A robot can move in one step from cell X to cell Y if and only if the distance between the centers of the cells X and Y is equal to the sum of integers contained in X and Y

Cell X is reachable for robot A if either A is currently standing in the cell X or A can reach X after some number of steps. During the transfer the robot can choose the direction (horizontal or vertical) of each step arbitrarily
[![enter image description here][1]][1]

I started implementing it by first checking the row and print the index of the Cell X and Y where the distance is equal to the sum of integers contained in X and Y 

but after coding I found it difficult to remember the index when moving vertically

 So I thought to Build a graph where nodes are grid cells and edges are legal direct movements, then run any connected components algorithm to find which cells are reachable from each other


Can anyone implement it with graphs or queue?





Input 

    4 6
    3 1 3 2 0 0
    1 3 2 1 2 1
    3 3 1 0 1 2
    1 2 0 2 3 3

Output 

    6

My code so far

    def row_walk(inputstring):
        inputs = inputstring.split(" ")
        row_number, column_number = int(inputs[0]), int(inputs[1])      
        matrix = [list(map(int, input().split())) for _ in range(row_number)]
        matrix_transposed = (np.transpose(matrix)).tolist()     
    
        used = set()
        for i, r1 in enumerate(matrix[0]):
            for j, r2 in enumerate(matrix[0]):
                if j > i and  r1+r2 == j-i:
                    used.update((i, j))
            
        cell_movement = [x for x in range(len(matrix[0])) if x not in used]
        trivial_cell = [y for y in range(len(matrix[0])) if y in used]
        return cell_movement, trivial_cell
    
    
    if __name__=="__main__":
        print(row_walk(input()))


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Sat Apr  9 10:25:38 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:25:38 +0200
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <85twjb3su5.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be> <85fuuw5ypl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <5707B2CE.1010407@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrMv5O5vwrbfHJJCdiHi87naPOanhPmk4Ba_SLRgu1m4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5707BE18.1050805@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmoMuqwg0Q_fp=qitC3wWkXYHtdqBNVGzO+3ToAmsgit8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5708C8B0.6050904@rece.vub.ac.be> <85twjb3su5.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <570910E2.3030400@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 09-04-16 om 13:49 schreef Ben Finney:
> Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> writes:
> 
>> You don't seem to understand. I only do two comparisons and no the
>> equality is not necesarrily cheaper.
>>
>> I am talking about the difference between the following two:
>>
>>     if arg.key < node.key:   # possible expensive computation
>>         go_left()
>>     elif arg.key == node.key # possible expensive computation
>>         found_node()
>>     else:
>>         go_right()
>>
>> and
>>
>>     delta = cmp(arg.key, node.key) # possible expensive computation
>>     if delta < 0:                  # cheap computation
>>         go_left()
>>     elif delta == 0:               # cheap computation
>> 	found_node()
>>     else:
>>         go_right()
> 
> I find that a dubious claim.
> 
> The ?cmp? implementation must decide *at least* between three
> conditions: less-than, equal-to, greater-than. That is *at least* two
> inflection points.
> 
> The implementation of ?__lt__? and the implementation of ?__eq__? each
> only need to decide two conditions (true, false). So that is *at most*
> two inflection points.
> 
> If you're saying the latter implementation is somehow *more* expensive
> than the former, I think the implementations are suspect and likely can
> be improved: at least parity should be possible, to the point of
> statistical insignificance.

Let me give you an artifical example to show what can happen. The keys are all
iterables of equal lengths with integers as elements.

Then this could be the cmp function:

def cmp(ob1, ob2):
    itr1 = iter(ob1)
    itr2 = iter(ob2)
    for el1, el2 in zip(itr1, itr2)
        delta = el1 - el2
        if delta != 0:
            return delta
    return 0

Now maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how implementing __lt__ and
__eq__ in this case will be much different from largely reimplenting cmp.
So if you can work with a cmp function, you only need to travese the two
iterables only once. If you do it with the __lt__ and __eq__ methods you
will have to traverse them twice.

Now this probably is not a problem most of the times, but when you work with
tree's this kind of comparison to make a three way decision happens often and
the lower you descend in the tree, the close your argument will be with the
keys of the nodes you visit, making it more and more probable, you have a
large common prefix.

So in these circumstances it is more likely to be problematic.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk  Sat Apr  9 10:34:29 2016
From: ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk (Ben Bacarisse)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 15:34:29 +0100
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <mailman.100.1460161208.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <D43Oy.790728$O02.451908@fx38.am4> <87h9fa6gok.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
Message-ID: <87a8l26ebu.fsf@bsb.me.uk>

Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk> writes:

> alister <alister.ware at ntlworld.com> writes:
> <snip>
>> <pedant Mode on>
>> the design of qwerty was not to "Slow" the typist bu to ensure that the 
>> hammers for letters commonly used together are spaced widely apart, 
>> reducing the portion of trier travel arc were the could jam.
>> I and E are actually such a pair which is why they are at opposite ends 
>> of the hammer rack (I doubt that is the correct technical term).
>> they are on opposite hands to make typing of them faster.
>> unfortunately as you found it is still possible to jam them if they are 
>> hit almost simultaneously
>> <Pedant Mode Off>
>
> The problem with that theory is that 'er/re' (this is e and r in either
> order) is the 3rd most common pair in English but have been placed
> together.  ou and et (in either order) are the 15th and 22nd most common
> and they are separated by only one hammer position.  On the other hand,
> the QWERTY layout puts jk together, but they almost never appear
> together in English text.

This last part came out muddled.  It's obviously wise to put infrequent
combinations together (like jk), but j and k are both also rare letters
so putting them together represents a wasted opportunity for meeting the
supposed design objective.  Swapping, say, k and r, or splitting jk but
putting e in the middle would surely result in a net gain of "hammer
separation".

-- 
Ben.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 10:41:16 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 00:41:16 +1000
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <570910E2.3030400@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be> <85fuuw5ypl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <5707B2CE.1010407@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrMv5O5vwrbfHJJCdiHi87naPOanhPmk4Ba_SLRgu1m4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5707BE18.1050805@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmoMuqwg0Q_fp=qitC3wWkXYHtdqBNVGzO+3ToAmsgit8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5708C8B0.6050904@rece.vub.ac.be> <85twjb3su5.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <570910E2.3030400@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqeWACzrzka+5kQxO9Co42k7jRJzG_+cCqHkYO2OtQtMw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 12:25 AM, Antoon Pardon
<antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
> Let me give you an artifical example to show what can happen. The keys are all
> iterables of equal lengths with integers as elements.
>
> Then this could be the cmp function:
>
> def cmp(ob1, ob2):
>     itr1 = iter(ob1)
>     itr2 = iter(ob2)
>     for el1, el2 in zip(itr1, itr2)
>         delta = el1 - el2
>         if delta != 0:
>             return delta
>     return 0
>
> Now maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how implementing __lt__ and
> __eq__ in this case will be much different from largely reimplenting cmp.
> So if you can work with a cmp function, you only need to travese the two
> iterables only once. If you do it with the __lt__ and __eq__ methods you
> will have to traverse them twice.
>
> Now this probably is not a problem most of the times, but when you work with
> tree's this kind of comparison to make a three way decision happens often and
> the lower you descend in the tree, the close your argument will be with the
> keys of the nodes you visit, making it more and more probable, you have a
> large common prefix.
>
> So in these circumstances it is more likely to be problematic.

In this case, you're likely to end up with large branches of your tree
that have the same prefix. (And if you don't, your iterations are all
going to end early anyway, so the comparison is cheap.) A data
structure that takes this into account will out-perform the naive
comparison model every time. In fact, a simple dict will probably
out-perform your tree; by definition, your iterables have to be
stable, which means you could simply turn them into tuples and use
them as dict keys. Lookups and insertions would both require one pass
over the current key to calculate its hash, then a bucket lookup;
absent a pathological situation with hash collisions, this will result
in FAR better performance than any tree lookup ever will.

The advantage of the tree is that it requires *no* operations other
than "which of these is greater". But I'm hard-pressed to find an
object type that would plausibly be used in this way (it has to be
totally ordered, for a start - you can't use timestamp ranges, for
instance), yet can't take advantage of Python's massively-optimized
dictionary.

ChrisA


From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Apr  9 10:54:41 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 17:54:41 +0300
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be> <85fuuw5ypl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <5707B2CE.1010407@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrMv5O5vwrbfHJJCdiHi87naPOanhPmk4Ba_SLRgu1m4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5707BE18.1050805@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmoMuqwg0Q_fp=qitC3wWkXYHtdqBNVGzO+3ToAmsgit8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5708C8B0.6050904@rece.vub.ac.be> <85twjb3su5.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <570910E2.3030400@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.118.1460212008.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87a8l2g7da.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be>:

> Now this probably is not a problem most of the times, but when you
> work with tree's this kind of comparison to make a three way decision
> happens often and the lower you descend in the tree, the close your
> argument will be with the keys of the nodes you visit, making it more
> and more probable, you have a large common prefix.

Yes.

> So in these circumstances it is more likely to be problematic.

I don't believe so.


Marko


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 11:14:29 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 09:14:29 -0600
Subject: (Python 3.5) Asyncio and an attempt to run
 loop.run_until_complete() from within a running loop
In-Reply-To: <33e44698-2625-47c4-9595-00a8c79f27ad@googlegroups.com>
References: <33e44698-2625-47c4-9595-00a8c79f27ad@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=nr4FTtt-iQJEG8CwnpbXR-=QctCous0fi0YdC1BP_cA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 5:54 PM, Alexander Myodov <amyodov at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello.
>
> TLDR: how can I use something like loop.run_until_complete(coro), to execute a coroutine synchronously, while the loop is already running?
>
> More on this:
>
> I was trying to create an aio_map(coro, iterable) function (which would asynchronously launch a coroutine for each iteration over iterable, and collect the data; similary to gevent.pool.Group.imap() from another async world), but stuck while attempting to make it well both from outside the async event loop and from inside one - any help?
>
> My code is at http://paste.pound-python.org/show/EQvN2cSDp0xqXK56dUPy/ - and I stuck around lines 22-28, with the problem that loop.run_until_complete() cannot be executed when the loop is running already (raising "RuntimeError: Event loop is running."). Is it normal? and why is it so restrictive? And what can I do to wait for `coros` Future to be finished?
>
> I tried various mixes of loop.run_forever() and even loop._run_once() there, but was not able to create a stable working code. Am I doing something completely wrong here? Am I expected to create a totally new event loop for synchronously waiting for the Future, if the current event loop is running - and if so, won't the previous event loop miss any its events?

The code is short enough that it would be better to include it inline
in your email for posterity; this thread will be archived, but paste
URLs have a bad tendency of eventually disappearing.


> def aio_map(coro, iterable, loop=None):
>     if loop is None:
>         loop = asyncio.get_event_loop()
>
>     async def wrapped_coro(coro, value):
>         return await coro(value)
>
>     coroutines = (wrapped_coro(coro, v) for v in iterable)

I'm not sure what value wrapped_coro adds here. Couldn't you just do:

    coroutines = (coro(v) for v in interable)

Or even:

    coroutines = map(coro, iterables)

>     coros = asyncio.gather(*coroutines, return_exceptions=True, loop=loop)
>
>     if not loop.is_running():
>         loop.run_until_complete(coros)
>     else:  # problem starts here
>         # If we run loop.run_until_complete(coros) as well,
>         # we get 'RuntimeError: Event loop is running.'

Right, there's no need to run multiple event loops.

>         asyncio.wait(coros)

This doesn't do anything. asyncio.wait is itself a coroutine, so all
this does is to instantiate the asyncio.wait coroutine and then
discard it without ever starting it.

Besides, you don't really want to do this. aio_map isn't a coroutine,
which means it's a synchronous call. In order for it to wait, it would
have to block the event loop thread, which means that the coroutines
it's waiting for would never finish!

This should get you the result that you're looking for:

def aio_map(coro, iterable, loop=None):
    if loop is None:
        loop = asyncio.get_event_loop()

    coroutines = map(coro, iterable)
    coros = asyncio.gather(*coroutines, return_exceptions=True, loop=loop)

    if loop.is_running():
        return coros
    else:
        return loop.run_until_complete(coros)

Note that this does something slightly different. Instead of returning
the *result* if we're running in the event loop, we're going to return
the *future* instead. This allows the *caller* to await the result, so
that you don't end up blocking the event thread.

This does mean that the pattern for calling aio_map from outside the
event loop is different from calling it inside the event loop. Your
main_loop coroutine becomes (note the addition of the "await"):

async def main_loop(loop):
    results = list(await aio_map(fetch_aio, range(5)))
    assert(results == [{'aio_arg': '0'}, {'aio_arg': '1'}, {'aio_arg':
'2'}, {'aio_arg': '3'}, {'aio_arg': '4'}]), results
    print('Assert ok!')


From random832 at fastmail.com  Sat Apr  9 11:23:12 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 11:23:12 -0400
Subject: Repair??
In-Reply-To: <851t6f60c8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <CAGZmQc09Z8GBh=6DjqXV5b3g8cU5KW+8Rbyhc9n4wX5yTA==sA@mail.gmail.com>
 <851t6f60c8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <1460215392.3798111.573742689.11DE226C@webmail.messagingengine.com>

----- Original message -----
From: Amaya McLean <mcleamay219 at gotvdsb.ca>
To: Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com>
Subject: Re: Repair??
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 10:41:52 -0400

How, specifically, are you installing Python? There are many ways, and
> we can't guess which you use.
> I'm trying to install Python on my laptop, from python.org
> Which particular Python installation have you obtained? From what
> specific URL? Python is available from many sources and we can't guess
> which you obtained.
> https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-351/
I tried to download the Windows x86 executable installer
<https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.5.1/python-3.5.1.exe>
> Onto which platform? Python is available for many, and we can't guess
> which is relevant to your case.
>  Windows 10
> > I try to run it
>
> How do you try to run it? What action do you do? We can't guess that
> either.
> When I first downloaded it, it said "run", so I clicked that and it
brought me to a screen that gave me an option to modify, repair, or
uninstall.. I tried to repair it several times, but every time I ran it,
the same screen opened up. I also tried to run it by just using the
shortcut. That might be the problem, but I'm not really sure, to be
honest
>
>
> With some relevant details we may be able to help.
>
> > Sorry for the late reply, I sent this late at night
>
> Please also note that this is the community forum for Python, and by
> posting here you are inviting open discussion among volunteers. This is
> not an issue tracker nor a commercial support service. You're welcome
> here, but I wanted to be clear on what you can expect :-)

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 10:27 PM, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com>
wrote:

> I suspect that the reason that a lot of people who report issues like
> this don't seem to follow up is that they may not be subscribed to the
> list, and replies are sent to the list exclusively.
>
> Quoting the entire reply so they see it.
>
> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016, at 21:24, Ben Finney wrote:
> > Amaya McLean <mcleamay219 at gotvdsb.ca> writes:
> >
> > > After I install Python
> >
> > How, specifically, are you installing Python? There are many ways, and
> > we can't guess which you use.
> >
> > Which particular Python installation have you obtained? From what
> > specific URL? Python is available from many sources and we can't guess
> > which you obtained.
> >
> > Onto which platform? Python is available for many, and we can't guess
> > which is relevant to your case.
> >
> > > I try to run it
> >
> > How do you try to run it? What action do you do? We can't guess that
> > either.
> >
> > > and it always says it needs to be repaired, and when I do, it still
> > > doesn't fix the problem.
> >
> > With some relevant details we may be able to help.
> >
> > > If you could help me out, that would be great! Thanks, Amaya
> >
> > Please also note that this is the community forum for Python, and by
> > posting here you are inviting open discussion among volunteers. This is
> > not an issue tracker nor a commercial support service. You're welcome
> > here, but I wanted to be clear on what you can expect :-)


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Sat Apr  9 11:24:24 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 17:24:24 +0200
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqeWACzrzka+5kQxO9Co42k7jRJzG_+cCqHkYO2OtQtMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be> <85fuuw5ypl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <5707B2CE.1010407@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrMv5O5vwrbfHJJCdiHi87naPOanhPmk4Ba_SLRgu1m4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5707BE18.1050805@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmoMuqwg0Q_fp=qitC3wWkXYHtdqBNVGzO+3ToAmsgit8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5708C8B0.6050904@rece.vub.ac.be> <85twjb3su5.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <570910E2.3030400@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmqeWACzrzka+5kQxO9Co42k7jRJzG_+cCqHkYO2OtQtMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57091EA8.4080803@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 09-04-16 om 16:41 schreef Chris Angelico:

> 
> In this case, you're likely to end up with large branches of your tree
> that have the same prefix. (And if you don't, your iterations are all
> going to end early anyway, so the comparison is cheap.) A data
> structure that takes this into account will out-perform the naive
> comparison model every time. In fact, a simple dict will probably
> out-perform your tree;

So? I need a structure that can easily give me an answer to the
following: Given key1 and key2 what are the the keys between them
with their corresponding values. As long as a dict can't provide
me with that answer, it doesn't matter that it will out perform
lookups in my trees.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 11:31:30 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 01:31:30 +1000
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <57091EA8.4080803@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be> <85fuuw5ypl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <5707B2CE.1010407@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrMv5O5vwrbfHJJCdiHi87naPOanhPmk4Ba_SLRgu1m4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5707BE18.1050805@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmoMuqwg0Q_fp=qitC3wWkXYHtdqBNVGzO+3ToAmsgit8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5708C8B0.6050904@rece.vub.ac.be> <85twjb3su5.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <570910E2.3030400@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmqeWACzrzka+5kQxO9Co42k7jRJzG_+cCqHkYO2OtQtMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <57091EA8.4080803@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrS=HW2fhDgZw22n5kcS4c+=b71rV50DkPPkKRdRW+QqA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 1:24 AM, Antoon Pardon
<antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
> Op 09-04-16 om 16:41 schreef Chris Angelico:
>
>>
>> In this case, you're likely to end up with large branches of your tree
>> that have the same prefix. (And if you don't, your iterations are all
>> going to end early anyway, so the comparison is cheap.) A data
>> structure that takes this into account will out-perform the naive
>> comparison model every time. In fact, a simple dict will probably
>> out-perform your tree;
>
> So? I need a structure that can easily give me an answer to the
> following: Given key1 and key2 what are the the keys between them
> with their corresponding values. As long as a dict can't provide
> me with that answer, it doesn't matter that it will out perform
> lookups in my trees.

Ah, okay. You can probably still take advantage of the other thing I
mentioned, which was structuring your tree such that it's aware of the
common prefixes, even if you can't go for O(1) hashing. That would
drastically reduce the number of comparisons you have to do.

ChrisA


From deepakpawar.2310 at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 11:37:33 2016
From: deepakpawar.2310 at gmail.com (DEEPAK KUMAR PAWAR)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 21:07:33 +0530
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <5709219d.09bc420a.991b6.ffff9ba1@mx.google.com>

I am trying to install numpy along with the python35
But it getting error everytime.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 11:38:05 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 09:38:05 -0600
Subject: (Python 3.5) Asyncio and an attempt to run
 loop.run_until_complete() from within a running loop
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid=nr4FTtt-iQJEG8CwnpbXR-=QctCous0fi0YdC1BP_cA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <33e44698-2625-47c4-9595-00a8c79f27ad@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzid=nr4FTtt-iQJEG8CwnpbXR-=QctCous0fi0YdC1BP_cA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkHOTXpKN66n9o-2Y0qaCVZAz=CbX_Vr1C6f12QoXUMnA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 5:54 PM, Alexander Myodov <amyodov at gmail.com> wrote:
> This does mean that the pattern for calling aio_map from outside the
> event loop is different from calling it inside the event loop. Your
> main_loop coroutine becomes (note the addition of the "await"):
>
> async def main_loop(loop):
>     results = list(await aio_map(fetch_aio, range(5)))
>     assert(results == [{'aio_arg': '0'}, {'aio_arg': '1'}, {'aio_arg':
> '2'}, {'aio_arg': '3'}, {'aio_arg': '4'}]), results
>     print('Assert ok!')

As a final afterthought, note that the result of asyncio.gather is
already a list, so wrapping it in a list() call here is redundant.


From random832 at fastmail.com  Sat Apr  9 11:44:48 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 11:44:48 -0400
Subject: QWERTY was not designed to intentionally slow typists down (was:
 Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?])
In-Reply-To: <570876f1$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.101.1460162658.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <570876f1$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1460216688.3801979.573748441.5F836BEB@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016, at 23:28, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> And how did it enable fast typing? By *slowing down the typist*, and thus
> having fewer jams.

Er, no? The point is that type bars that are closer together collide
more easily *at the same actual typing speed* than ones that are further
apart - For Q to collide with P, they would have to both be nearly all
the way to the platen at the same time, whereas Q can collide with A
even a mere millimeter from the basket (or anywhere in between).

I don't understand where this idea that alternating hands makes you
slows you down came from in the first place... I suspect it's people who
haven't really thought for a minute about the physical process of typing
(to type "ec" you have to physically move your left hand, to type "en"
your right hand can already be moving into place while your left hand
presses the first key. The former is clearly slower than the latter.)
This goes double for hunt-and-peck typing, where you have to move your
whole hand to press _any_ two keys on the same hand.


From random832 at fastmail.com  Sat Apr  9 11:53:53 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 11:53:53 -0400
Subject: QWERTY was not designed to intentionally slow typists down (was:
 Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?])
In-Reply-To: <570876f1$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.101.1460162658.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <570876f1$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1460217233.3804713.573755729.61D3FCF2@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016, at 23:28, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> This is the power of the "slowing typists down is a myth" meme: same
> Wikipedia contributor takes an article which *clearly and obviously*
> repeats the conventional narrative that QWERTY was designed to
> decrease the number of key presses per second, and uses that to defend
> the counter-myth that QWERTY wasn't designed to decrease the number of
> key presses per second!

Er, the footnote is clearly and obviously being used to cite the claim
that that is popularly believed, not the claim that it's incorrect.

> These are the historical facts:

> - Sholes spend significant time developing a layout which reduced the
>   number of jams by intentionally moving frequently typed characters
>   far apart, which has the effect of slowing down the rate at which
>   the typist can hit keys;

"Moving characters far apart has the effect of slowing down the rate at
which the typist can hit keys" is neither a fact nor historical. Keys
that are further apart *can be hit faster without jamming* due to the
specifics of the type-basket mechanism, and there's no reason to think
that they can't be hit with at least equal speed by the typist.

Take a typewriter. Press Q and A (right next to each other) at the same
time, and observe the distance from the type basket where the jam
occurs. Now press Q and P (on the opposite side of the basket from each
other) and observe where the jam occurs.


From random832 at fastmail.com  Sat Apr  9 11:59:30 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 11:59:30 -0400
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <85twjb3su5.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be> <85fuuw5ypl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <5707B2CE.1010407@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrMv5O5vwrbfHJJCdiHi87naPOanhPmk4Ba_SLRgu1m4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5707BE18.1050805@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmoMuqwg0Q_fp=qitC3wWkXYHtdqBNVGzO+3ToAmsgit8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5708C8B0.6050904@rece.vub.ac.be> <85twjb3su5.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <1460217570.3805671.573759817.78567E5F@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016, at 07:49, Ben Finney wrote:
> I find that a dubious claim.
> 
> The ?cmp? implementation must decide *at least* between three
> conditions: less-than, equal-to, greater-than. That is *at least* two
> inflection points.

Yes, but in a sequence it can decide that at each element, and only has
to reach the end of the list in the (relatively rare) case that they're
equal. For that matter, it only has to determine less than vs greater
than for the first unequal element.


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Sat Apr  9 12:03:48 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 18:03:48 +0200
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrS=HW2fhDgZw22n5kcS4c+=b71rV50DkPPkKRdRW+QqA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be> <85fuuw5ypl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <5707B2CE.1010407@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrMv5O5vwrbfHJJCdiHi87naPOanhPmk4Ba_SLRgu1m4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5707BE18.1050805@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmoMuqwg0Q_fp=qitC3wWkXYHtdqBNVGzO+3ToAmsgit8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5708C8B0.6050904@rece.vub.ac.be> <85twjb3su5.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <570910E2.3030400@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmqeWACzrzka+5kQxO9Co42k7jRJzG_+cCqHkYO2OtQtMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <57091EA8.4080803@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrS=HW2fhDgZw22n5kcS4c+=b71rV50DkPPkKRdRW+QqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <570927E4.9000104@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 09-04-16 om 17:31 schreef Chris Angelico:
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 1:24 AM, Antoon Pardon
> <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
>>
>> So? I need a structure that can easily give me an answer to the
>> following: Given key1 and key2 what are the the keys between them
>> with their corresponding values. As long as a dict can't provide
>> me with that answer, it doesn't matter that it will out perform
>> lookups in my trees.
> 
> Ah, okay. You can probably still take advantage of the other thing I
> mentioned, which was structuring your tree such that it's aware of the
> common prefixes, even if you can't go for O(1) hashing. That would
> drastically reduce the number of comparisons you have to do.

I think that would be a premature optization at this point. At this
moment I am just converting my python2 avltree module to python3.
This module doesn't care about how the keys are structured, it just
wants to know, given two keys, how are they ordered.

Now the original module can avoid doing some duplicate work by using
cmp instead of directly using the comparators. I am only prepared
to do something similar, because this is supposed to be a general
purpose tree and not one taylored to specific kinds of key objects.

The tests I have done show, the above is not an issue if my keys
are simple python objects like ints, strings, ... or tuples of
such.

And when I need some personal object as a key, I can avoid the
duplication by using some kind of cmp cache when I implement
__lt__ and family.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 12:08:24 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 09:08:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
In-Reply-To: <87h9fa6gok.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <mailman.100.1460161208.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <D43Oy.790728$O02.451908@fx38.am4> <87h9fa6gok.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
Message-ID: <99446a57-07dd-4438-a14e-8b73e52d3e18@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 9, 2016 at 7:14:05 PM UTC+5:30, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> The problem with that theory is that 'er/re' (this is e and r in either
> order) is the 3rd most common pair in English but have been placed
> together.  ou and et (in either order) are the 15th and 22nd most common
> and they are separated by only one hammer position.  On the other hand,
> the QWERTY layout puts jk together, but they almost never appear
> together in English text.

Where do you get this (kind of) statistical data?


From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Apr  9 12:32:56 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 19:32:56 +0300
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be> <85fuuw5ypl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <5707B2CE.1010407@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrMv5O5vwrbfHJJCdiHi87naPOanhPmk4Ba_SLRgu1m4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5707BE18.1050805@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmoMuqwg0Q_fp=qitC3wWkXYHtdqBNVGzO+3ToAmsgit8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5708C8B0.6050904@rece.vub.ac.be> <85twjb3su5.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <570910E2.3030400@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmqeWACzrzka+5kQxO9Co42k7jRJzG_+cCqHkYO2OtQtMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <57091EA8.4080803@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrS=HW2fhDgZw22n5kcS4c+=b71rV50DkPPkKRdRW+QqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <570927E4.9000104@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.128.1460217831.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87y48meo93.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be>:

> And when I need some personal object as a key, I can avoid the
> duplication by using some kind of cmp cache when I implement __lt__
> and family.

Yes, that's what you can do in rare, extreme cases where key comparison
takes a long time. For caching, you will simply need to require that
keys stay immutable wrt comparing.


Marko


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 12:43:23 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 10:43:23 -0600
Subject: Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular
 grid
In-Reply-To: <8c570da8-ab31-44f3-9fdf-83e28741ffe4@googlegroups.com>
References: <8c570da8-ab31-44f3-9fdf-83e28741ffe4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkhCO0bK2XxP-BZ=aPxuSX-ZiSxq_Yn7pe+ehV8qTsN8Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 8:18 AM, Joe <lildinho14 at gmail.com> wrote:
> How to find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid
> The movement of a robot in the field is divided into successive steps
>
> In one step a robot can move either horizontally or vertically (in one row or in one column of cells) by some number of cells
>
> A robot can move in one step from cell X to cell Y if and only if the distance between the centers of the cells X and Y is equal to the sum of integers contained in X and Y
>
> Cell X is reachable for robot A if either A is currently standing in the cell X or A can reach X after some number of steps. During the transfer the robot can choose the direction (horizontal or vertical) of each step arbitrarily
> [![enter image description here][1]][1]
>
> I started implementing it by first checking the row and print the index of the Cell X and Y where the distance is equal to the sum of integers contained in X and Y
>
> but after coding I found it difficult to remember the index when moving vertically
>
>  So I thought to Build a graph where nodes are grid cells and edges are legal direct movements, then run any connected components algorithm to find which cells are reachable from each other
>
>
> Can anyone implement it with graphs or queue?

I'd use a disjoint-set data structure. The number of robots needed is
equal to the number of disjoint subsets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disjoint-set_data_structure


From lildinho14 at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 13:13:04 2016
From: lildinho14 at gmail.com (Joe)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 10:13:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular
 grid
In-Reply-To: <mailman.129.1460220245.2253.python-list@python.org>
References: <8c570da8-ab31-44f3-9fdf-83e28741ffe4@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkhCO0bK2XxP-BZ=aPxuSX-ZiSxq_Yn7pe+ehV8qTsN8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.129.1460220245.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e42777b0-fc2b-4f2c-8c2b-a53b41bfe3f7@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, 9 April 2016 18:44:20 UTC+2, Ian  wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 8:18 AM, Joe  wrote:
> > How to find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid
> > The movement of a robot in the field is divided into successive steps
> >
> > In one step a robot can move either horizontally or vertically (in one row or in one column of cells) by some number of cells
> >
> > A robot can move in one step from cell X to cell Y if and only if the distance between the centers of the cells X and Y is equal to the sum of integers contained in X and Y
> >
> > Cell X is reachable for robot A if either A is currently standing in the cell X or A can reach X after some number of steps. During the transfer the robot can choose the direction (horizontal or vertical) of each step arbitrarily
> > [![enter image description here][1]][1]
> >
> > I started implementing it by first checking the row and print the index of the Cell X and Y where the distance is equal to the sum of integers contained in X and Y
> >
> > but after coding I found it difficult to remember the index when moving vertically
> >
> >  So I thought to Build a graph where nodes are grid cells and edges are legal direct movements, then run any connected components algorithm to find which cells are reachable from each other
> >
> >
> > Can anyone implement it with graphs or queue?
> 
> I'd use a disjoint-set data structure. The number of robots needed is
> equal to the number of disjoint subsets.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disjoint-set_data_structure

Could you post a formal solution of disjoint-set using my algorithm  


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Apr  9 13:22:50 2016
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 10:22:50 -0700
Subject: how to convert code that uses cmp to python3
References: <57064D0D.1030701@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrGiQS9uhFU-+TQ4nUWQ2p4gmJoQitMotS0Ob--qm1iWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5706C961.2000009@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrbL870mV1kU8nHar=bPyKZRmhKP-8iUs_tpYVo5vhhOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <57075F43.7060004@rece.vub.ac.be> <85fuuw5ypl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <5707B2CE.1010407@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmrMv5O5vwrbfHJJCdiHi87naPOanhPmk4Ba_SLRgu1m4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5707BE18.1050805@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmoMuqwg0Q_fp=qitC3wWkXYHtdqBNVGzO+3ToAmsgit8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5708C8B0.6050904@rece.vub.ac.be> <85twjb3su5.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.115.1460202579.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87a8l2ofx1.fsf@nightsong.com>

Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> writes:
> The ?cmp? implementation must decide *at least* between three
> conditions...  The implementation of ?__lt__? and the implementation
> of ?__eq__? each only need to decide two conditions (true, false).

> If you're saying the latter implementation is somehow *more* expensive
> than the former, I think the implementations are suspect

What is suspect?  It seems natural to be able to distinguish the 3 cases
faster than two separate 2-case comparisons.  The most obvious example
is comparing long strings by scanning left to right.


From Michael.Coll-Barth at VerizonWireless.com  Sat Apr  9 13:31:37 2016
From: Michael.Coll-Barth at VerizonWireless.com (Coll-Barth, Michael)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 13:31:37 -0400
Subject: [E] QWERTY was not designed to intentionally slow typists down
 (was: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?])
In-Reply-To: <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <632A4F261C2E044CA79B055135C64F6001F877BA0B@NYORA1EXCV01.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com>



-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Finney

>> This is an often-repeated myth, with citations back as far as the 1970s.
>> It is false.

>> The design is intended to reduce jamming the print heads together, but the goal of this is not to reduce speed, but to enable *fast* typing.

>> It aims to maximise the frequency in which (English-language) text has consecutive letters alternating either side of the middle of the keyboard. This should thus reduce collisions of nearby heads ? and hence
>> *increase* the effective typing speed that can be achieved on such a mechanical typewriter.

When I was in high school, mid-70s, the instructor, an elderly women, said the same thing, the placement of the keys were designed to minimize collision of the heads.  I don't remember what she called the various parts, but they all had technical names.  I vaguely remember hearing the myth of slowing down typists when Dvorak's keyboard became available for PCs, '80s(?), and that this 'new' layout removed that incumbrance.


From ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk  Sat Apr  9 14:27:01 2016
From: ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk (Ben Bacarisse)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 19:27:01 +0100
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <mailman.100.1460161208.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <D43Oy.790728$O02.451908@fx38.am4> <87h9fa6gok.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
 <99446a57-07dd-4438-a14e-8b73e52d3e18@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <874mba63ka.fsf@bsb.me.uk>

Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com> writes:

> On Saturday, April 9, 2016 at 7:14:05 PM UTC+5:30, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> The problem with that theory is that 'er/re' (this is e and r in either
>> order) is the 3rd most common pair in English but have been placed
>> together.  ou and et (in either order) are the 15th and 22nd most common
>> and they are separated by only one hammer position.  On the other hand,
>> the QWERTY layout puts jk together, but they almost never appear
>> together in English text.
>
> Where do you get this (kind of) statistical data?

It was generated by counting the pairs found in a corpus of texts taken
from Project Gutenberg.  The numbers do very depending on what you pick
(for the complete works of Mark Twain er/re is second, for example), and
the none of the texts are very modern (because of the source) but I
doubt that matters too much.

-- 
Ben.


From gvimrc at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 14:52:15 2016
From: gvimrc at gmail.com (gvim)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 19:52:15 +0100
Subject: Conditionals in Python cli with -m oneliner
Message-ID: <57094F5F.2080709@gmail.com>

Given that this work in a Python 3 repl:

>>> import re
>>> txt = "Some random text"
>>> if re.search(r"\b\w{4}\b", txt): txt
>>> 'Some random text'

.... and this works on the command line, printing all lines in logs.txt:

$ python3 -m oneliner -ne 'line' logs.txt

..... why does this fail:

$ python3 -m oneliner -m re -ne 'if re.search(r"\b\w{4}\b", line): line' 
logs.txt
syntax error in: if re.search(r"\b\w{4}\b", line): line


gvim


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Apr  9 15:13:15 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:13:15 +0100
Subject: QWERTY was not designed to intentionally slow typists down
In-Reply-To: <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <nebk8j$rds$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 09/04/2016 01:43, Ben Finney wrote:
> Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:
>

Yet another completely irrelevant thread that has nothing to do with 
Python.  As this is meant to be the main Python mailing list, why don't 
the moderators put a stop to such tripe?

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Apr  9 15:23:28 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:23:28 +0100
Subject: Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular
 grid
In-Reply-To: <e42777b0-fc2b-4f2c-8c2b-a53b41bfe3f7@googlegroups.com>
References: <8c570da8-ab31-44f3-9fdf-83e28741ffe4@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkhCO0bK2XxP-BZ=aPxuSX-ZiSxq_Yn7pe+ehV8qTsN8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.129.1460220245.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <e42777b0-fc2b-4f2c-8c2b-a53b41bfe3f7@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nebkro$8j2$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 09/04/2016 18:13, Joe wrote:
> On Saturday, 9 April 2016 18:44:20 UTC+2, Ian  wrote:
>> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 8:18 AM, Joe  wrote:
>>> How to find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid
>>> The movement of a robot in the field is divided into successive steps
>>>
>>> In one step a robot can move either horizontally or vertically (in one row or in one column of cells) by some number of cells
>>>
>>> A robot can move in one step from cell X to cell Y if and only if the distance between the centers of the cells X and Y is equal to the sum of integers contained in X and Y
>>>
>>> Cell X is reachable for robot A if either A is currently standing in the cell X or A can reach X after some number of steps. During the transfer the robot can choose the direction (horizontal or vertical) of each step arbitrarily
>>> [![enter image description here][1]][1]
>>>
>>> I started implementing it by first checking the row and print the index of the Cell X and Y where the distance is equal to the sum of integers contained in X and Y
>>>
>>> but after coding I found it difficult to remember the index when moving vertically
>>>
>>>   So I thought to Build a graph where nodes are grid cells and edges are legal direct movements, then run any connected components algorithm to find which cells are reachable from each other
>>>
>>>
>>> Can anyone implement it with graphs or queue?
>>
>> I'd use a disjoint-set data structure. The number of robots needed is
>> equal to the number of disjoint subsets.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disjoint-set_data_structure
>
> Could you post a formal solution of disjoint-set using my algorithm
>

You write the code, we comment on it.  No code, no comment.  Got the 
message?

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Apr  9 15:25:13 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:25:13 +0100
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
In-Reply-To: <99446a57-07dd-4438-a14e-8b73e52d3e18@googlegroups.com>
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <mailman.100.1460161208.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <D43Oy.790728$O02.451908@fx38.am4> <87h9fa6gok.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
 <99446a57-07dd-4438-a14e-8b73e52d3e18@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nebkv1$8j2$2@ger.gmane.org>

On 09/04/2016 17:08, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Saturday, April 9, 2016 at 7:14:05 PM UTC+5:30, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> The problem with that theory is that 'er/re' (this is e and r in either
>> order) is the 3rd most common pair in English but have been placed
>> together.  ou and et (in either order) are the 15th and 22nd most common
>> and they are separated by only one hammer position.  On the other hand,
>> the QWERTY layout puts jk together, but they almost never appear
>> together in English text.
>
> Where do you get this (kind of) statistical data?
>

Again, where is the relevance to Python in this discussion, as we're on 
the main Python mailing list?  Please can the moderators take this stuff 
out, it is getting beyond the pale.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Sat Apr  9 15:25:36 2016
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:25:36 +0100
Subject: QWERTY was not designed to intentionally slow typists down
In-Reply-To: <nebk8j$rds$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> <nebk8j$rds$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <57095730.5060901@timgolden.me.uk>

On 09/04/2016 20:13, Mark Lawrence via Python-list wrote:
> On 09/04/2016 01:43, Ben Finney wrote:
>> Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:
>>
>
> Yet another completely irrelevant thread that has nothing to do with
> Python.  As this is meant to be the main Python mailing list, why don't
> the moderators put a stop to such tripe?
>

I'm sorry Mark but, whether you like it or not, this list / newsgroup 
has never been averse to taking a detour into interesting side-channels. 
You can easily mute a thread if you want to (or just delete the posts as 
they come).

Added to which, moderators give their time as freely as anyone else, and 
we'd have a merry time of it if we had to vet every subthread and post 
to make sure it met some notional guideline of language purity.

TJG


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Apr  9 15:36:10 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:36:10 +0100
Subject: QWERTY was not designed to intentionally slow typists down
In-Reply-To: <57095730.5060901@timgolden.me.uk>
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> <nebk8j$rds$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <57095730.5060901@timgolden.me.uk>
Message-ID: <nebljj$jlf$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 09/04/2016 20:25, Tim Golden wrote:
> On 09/04/2016 20:13, Mark Lawrence via Python-list wrote:
>> On 09/04/2016 01:43, Ben Finney wrote:
>>> Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:
>>>
>>
>> Yet another completely irrelevant thread that has nothing to do with
>> Python.  As this is meant to be the main Python mailing list, why don't
>> the moderators put a stop to such tripe?
>>
>
> I'm sorry Mark but, whether you like it or not, this list / newsgroup
> has never been averse to taking a detour into interesting side-channels.
> You can easily mute a thread if you want to (or just delete the posts as
> they come).

I do not find this acceptable. I want to discuss PYTHON on the MAIN 
PYTHON MAILING LIST, not some shite that someone thinks is interesting, 
they can take that offline.  QWERTY, what next, today's football results?

>
> Added to which, moderators give their time as freely as anyone else, and
> we'd have a merry time of it if we had to vet every subthread and post
> to make sure it met some notional guideline of language purity.
>
> TJG

Very amusing to see that some highly qualified 'moderators' have been so 
bloody rude on other Python mailing lists in the last days.  Do as I 
say, not as I do?

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From lildinho14 at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 15:41:56 2016
From: lildinho14 at gmail.com (Joe)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 12:41:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular
 grid
In-Reply-To: <mailman.137.1460229825.2253.python-list@python.org>
References: <8c570da8-ab31-44f3-9fdf-83e28741ffe4@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkhCO0bK2XxP-BZ=aPxuSX-ZiSxq_Yn7pe+ehV8qTsN8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.129.1460220245.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <e42777b0-fc2b-4f2c-8c2b-a53b41bfe3f7@googlegroups.com>
 <nebkro$8j2$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.137.1460229825.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4bdfe218-11a6-4866-b1c3-e3a2e0661e47@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, 9 April 2016 21:24:02 UTC+2, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> On 09/04/2016 18:13, Joe wrote:
> > On Saturday, 9 April 2016 18:44:20 UTC+2, Ian  wrote:
> >> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 8:18 AM, Joe  wrote:
> >>> How to find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid
> >>> The movement of a robot in the field is divided into successive steps
> >>>
> >>> In one step a robot can move either horizontally or vertically (in one row or in one column of cells) by some number of cells
> >>>
> >>> A robot can move in one step from cell X to cell Y if and only if the distance between the centers of the cells X and Y is equal to the sum of integers contained in X and Y
> >>>
> >>> Cell X is reachable for robot A if either A is currently standing in the cell X or A can reach X after some number of steps. During the transfer the robot can choose the direction (horizontal or vertical) of each step arbitrarily
> >>> [![enter image description here][1]][1]
> >>>
> >>> I started implementing it by first checking the row and print the index of the Cell X and Y where the distance is equal to the sum of integers contained in X and Y
> >>>
> >>> but after coding I found it difficult to remember the index when moving vertically
> >>>
> >>>   So I thought to Build a graph where nodes are grid cells and edges are legal direct movements, then run any connected components algorithm to find which cells are reachable from each other
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Can anyone implement it with graphs or queue?
> >>
> >> I'd use a disjoint-set data structure. The number of robots needed is
> >> equal to the number of disjoint subsets.
> >>
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disjoint-set_data_structure
> >
> > Could you post a formal solution of disjoint-set using my algorithm
> >
> 
> You write the code, we comment on it.  No code, no comment.  Got the 
> message?
> 
> -- 
> My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
> what you can do for our language.
> 
> Mark Lawrence

Sorry, I was desperate 
I deleted the post


From me at ixokai.io  Sat Apr  9 15:45:58 2016
From: me at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 12:45:58 -0700
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
In-Reply-To: <nebkv1$8j2$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <mailman.100.1460161208.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <D43Oy.790728$O02.451908@fx38.am4> <87h9fa6gok.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
 <99446a57-07dd-4438-a14e-8b73e52d3e18@googlegroups.com>
 <nebkv1$8j2$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1460231158.3119287.573873473.16A27487@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016, at 12:25 PM, Mark Lawrence via Python-list wrote:
> Again, where is the relevance to Python in this discussion, as we're on 
> the main Python mailing list?  Please can the moderators take this stuff 
> out, it is getting beyond the pale.

You need to come to grip with the fact that python-list is only
moderated in the vaguest sense of the word. 

Quote:

https://www.python.org/community/lists/
"Pretty much anything Python-related is fair game for discussion, and
the group is even fairly tolerant of off-topic digressions; there have
been entertaining discussions of topics such as floating point, good
software design, and other programming languages such as Lisp and
Forth."

If you don't like it, sorry. We all have our burdens to bear.

--S


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Apr  9 15:55:16 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:55:16 +0100
Subject: Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular
 grid
In-Reply-To: <4bdfe218-11a6-4866-b1c3-e3a2e0661e47@googlegroups.com>
References: <8c570da8-ab31-44f3-9fdf-83e28741ffe4@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkhCO0bK2XxP-BZ=aPxuSX-ZiSxq_Yn7pe+ehV8qTsN8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.129.1460220245.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <e42777b0-fc2b-4f2c-8c2b-a53b41bfe3f7@googlegroups.com>
 <nebkro$8j2$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.137.1460229825.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <4bdfe218-11a6-4866-b1c3-e3a2e0661e47@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nebmnd$4ce$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 09/04/2016 20:41, Joe wrote:
>
> Sorry, I was desperate
> I deleted the post
>

You didn't.  This will be showing in the archives in several places, e.g 
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2016-April/707160.html

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Sat Apr  9 16:22:18 2016
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 20:22:18 GMT
Subject: QWERTY was not designed to intentionally slow typists down
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> <nebk8j$rds$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.136.1460229213.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <_vdOy.574458$bx.363216@fx35.am4>

On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 20:13:15 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> On 09/04/2016 01:43, Ben Finney wrote:
>> Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:
>>
>>
> Yet another completely irrelevant thread that has nothing to do with
> Python.  As this is meant to be the main Python mailing list, why don't
> the moderators put a stop to such tripe?

Because it is also a newsgroup which means they CANT (at least not 100% 
effectively) even if the want to.




-- 
Of course you have a purpose -- to find a purpose.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Apr  9 17:23:02 2016
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 22:23:02 +0100
Subject: QWERTY was not designed to intentionally slow typists down
In-Reply-To: <_vdOy.574458$bx.363216@fx35.am4>
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> <nebk8j$rds$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.136.1460229213.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <_vdOy.574458$bx.363216@fx35.am4>
Message-ID: <nebrru$fs3$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 09/04/2016 21:22, alister wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 20:13:15 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>
>> On 09/04/2016 01:43, Ben Finney wrote:
>>> Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:
>>>
>>>
>> Yet another completely irrelevant thread that has nothing to do with
>> Python.  As this is meant to be the main Python mailing list, why don't
>> the moderators put a stop to such tripe?
>
> Because it is also a newsgroup which means they CANT (at least not 100%
> effectively) even if the want to.
>

They could certainly be more effective.  Thankfully the RUE was seen 
off.  Talk about grateful for small mercies, given the number of others 
who continue to insult the Python community and get away scott free, 
whilst they continue to discriminate against me in complete breach of 
the ethics that they claim to hold so dear.  Talk about bloody 
hypocrites.  Actually how do you get the job of moderator, insult the 
BDFL as Ethan Furman did just a day or so back?

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From lildinho14 at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 17:28:14 2016
From: lildinho14 at gmail.com (Joe)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 14:28:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular
 grid
In-Reply-To: <mailman.141.1460231737.2253.python-list@python.org>
References: <8c570da8-ab31-44f3-9fdf-83e28741ffe4@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidkhCO0bK2XxP-BZ=aPxuSX-ZiSxq_Yn7pe+ehV8qTsN8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.129.1460220245.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <e42777b0-fc2b-4f2c-8c2b-a53b41bfe3f7@googlegroups.com>
 <nebkro$8j2$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.137.1460229825.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <4bdfe218-11a6-4866-b1c3-e3a2e0661e47@googlegroups.com>
 <nebmnd$4ce$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.141.1460231737.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a23155e3-7e86-4ace-b299-1f93d7224eb3@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, 9 April 2016 21:55:50 UTC+2, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> On 09/04/2016 20:41, Joe wrote:
> >
> > Sorry, I was desperate
> > I deleted the post
> >
> 
> You didn't.  This will be showing in the archives in several places, e.g 
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2016-April/707160.html
> 
> -- 
> My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
> what you can do for our language.
> 
> Mark Lawrence

Well its still there, next time I'll not make the same mistake hopefully


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Sat Apr  9 17:33:04 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 14:33:04 -0700
Subject: QWERTY was not designed to intentionally slow typists down
In-Reply-To: <nebljj$jlf$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> <nebk8j$rds$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <57095730.5060901@timgolden.me.uk> <nebljj$jlf$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <57097510.8040201@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/09/2016 12:36 PM, Mark Lawrence via Python-list wrote:

> Very amusing to see that some highly qualified 'moderators' have been so
> bloody rude on other Python mailing lists in the last days.  Do as I
> say, not as I do?

Nope -- you should take that as all of us are human and sometimes our 
temper gets the better of us.

You'll notice I was censored for my outburst, and you'll also hopefully 
notice that I later apologized.

--
~Ethan~


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Sat Apr  9 17:51:24 2016
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 22:51:24 +0100
Subject: QWERTY was not designed to intentionally slow typists down
In-Reply-To: <nebrru$fs3$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> <nebk8j$rds$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.136.1460229213.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <_vdOy.574458$bx.363216@fx35.am4> <nebrru$fs3$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <5709795C.2000901@timgolden.me.uk>

On 09/04/2016 22:23, Mark Lawrence via Python-list wrote:

[... snip ...]

Mark, you're ranting. Have a little dignity, please, and back off.

TJG


From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Apr  9 18:15:53 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 00:15:53 +0200
Subject: Conditionals in Python cli with -m oneliner
References: <57094F5F.2080709@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <nebuuq$rtn$1@ger.gmane.org>

gvim wrote:

> Given that this work in a Python 3 repl:
> 
>>>> import re
>>>> txt = "Some random text"
>>>> if re.search(r"\b\w{4}\b", txt): txt
>>>> 'Some random text'
> 
> .... and this works on the command line, printing all lines in logs.txt:
> 
> $ python3 -m oneliner -ne 'line' logs.txt
> 
> ..... why does this fail:
> 
> $ python3 -m oneliner -m re -ne 'if re.search(r"\b\w{4}\b", line): line'
> logs.txt
> syntax error in: if re.search(r"\b\w{4}\b", line): line

You seem o be talking about https://pypi.python.org/pypi/oneliner

$ python3 -m oneliner --help
Usage: python -m oneliner [-hvnpdijl] [-m mod] [-e expr] [-s stmt] <path> [<path> ...]

[snip]

  -e expr  python expression (see Execution Model)
  -s stmt  python statement (see Execution Model)

So you can either use -e with an expression

$ python3 -m oneliner -m re -ne 'line if re.search(r"\b\w{4}\b", line) else ""'

or -s with a statement

$ python3 -m oneliner -m re -ns 'if re.search(r"\b\w{4}\b", line): print(line, end="")'




From phamp at mindspring.com  Sat Apr  9 23:09:02 2016
From: phamp at mindspring.com (pyotr filipivich)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 20:09:02 -0700
Subject: QWERTY was not designed to intentionally slow typists down (was:
 Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?])
References: <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net>
 <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.101.1460162658.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <570876f1$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1460216688.3801979.573748441.5F836BEB@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <65jigb1tb6hojh65op74md9veov1uu9v18@4ax.com>
 <mailman.132.1460228015.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ubgjgb98m59h2gda4f688efb9o0pu281ab@4ax.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> on Sat, 09 Apr 2016 14:52:50
-0400 typed in comp.lang.python  the following:
>On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 11:44:48 -0400, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com>
>declaimed the following:
>
>>I don't understand where this idea that alternating hands makes you
>>slows you down came from in the first place... I suspect it's people who
>
>	It's not (to my mind) the alternation that slows one down. It's the
>combination of putting common letters under weak fingers and some
>combinationS that require the same hand/finger to slow one down.
>
>aspect		a is on the weakest left finger, with the s on a finger that
>many people have trouble moving independently from the middle finger (hmm,
>I seem to be okay moving the ring finger, but moving the middle finger
>tends to drag the ring with it). p is the weakest finger of the right hand.
>e&c use the same finger of the left hand, t is the strongest finger but one
>is coming off the lower-row reach of middle-finger c.
>
>deaf		is all left hand, and the de is the same finger... earth except
>for the h is also all left hand, and rt are the same finger.
>
>	I suspect for any argument for one side, a corresponding counter can be
>made for the other side. There are only 5.5 vowels (the .5 is Y) in
>English, so they are likely more prevalent than the 20-odd consonants when
>taking singly. Yet A is on the weakest finger on the weakest (for most of
>the populace) hand. IOU OTOH are in a fast three-finger roll -- and worse,
>IO is fairly common (all the ***ion endings).

	ASINTOER are the top eight English letters (not in any order, it
is just that "A Sin To Err" is easy to remember.
--  
pyotr filipivich
The fears of one class of men are not the measure of the rights of another. 
-- George Bancroft


From jsf80238 at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 23:29:08 2016
From: jsf80238 at gmail.com (Jason Friedman)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 21:29:08 -0600
Subject: Python,ping,csv
In-Reply-To: <o1JNy.43731$pt.31548@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
References: <o1JNy.43731$pt.31548@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <CANy1k1h392HiXq-onCAFj1zJkK0Z31AXeR6fEtnf7fZ-5fHkaQ@mail.gmail.com>

> for ping in range(1,254):
>     address = "10.24.59." + str(ping)
>     res = subprocess.call(['ping', '-c', '3', address])
>     if res == 0:
>         print ("ping to", address, "OK")
>     elif res == 2:
>         print ("no response from", address)
>     else:
>         print ("ping to", address, "failed!")

Note that with Python 3.3+ you can simplify slightly:

from ipaddress import IPv4Network
for address in IPv4Network('10.24.59.0/24').hosts():
    res = subprocess.call(['ping', '-c', '3', address])
    ...


From niefan68 at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 23:46:28 2016
From: niefan68 at gmail.com (fan nie)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 11:46:28 +0800
Subject: REMOVE ME
Message-ID: <CALuqfDDNQ0N6xQXEKurzK1v0eVfU7jr6=-uvLT1zeGcf3vgexQ@mail.gmail.com>




From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 23:52:07 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 13:52:07 +1000
Subject: REMOVE ME
In-Reply-To: <CALuqfDDNQ0N6xQXEKurzK1v0eVfU7jr6=-uvLT1zeGcf3vgexQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALuqfDDNQ0N6xQXEKurzK1v0eVfU7jr6=-uvLT1zeGcf3vgexQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrdgBsSWUkNi+H8Tm8eqHA53pxVM-FP8ChqsxRNCeRNGA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 1:46 PM, fan nie <niefan68 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Sure. I presume you mean something like this:

class Thing:
    things = []
    def __init__(self):
        self.things.append(self)
    def __del__(self):
        # Remove me when I'm dead
        self.things.remove(self)

This ingenious technique guarantees that you never have dead objects
in your list, by having each object remove itself when it dies.

ChrisA


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Apr 10 00:19:59 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:19:59 +1000
Subject: REMOVE ME
References: <CALuqfDDNQ0N6xQXEKurzK1v0eVfU7jr6=-uvLT1zeGcf3vgexQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85egae3xjk.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

fan nie <niefan68 at gmail.com> writes:

> [no content]

Thank you for sending a message to everyone on the mailing list, with
the full correct information on how to check subscription settings and
how to unsubscribe.

As you are no doubt aware, since you left the message body entirely
blank to draw attention to this, the message header contains a field
?List-Unsubscribe? with the URL to unsubscribe.

I don't doubt your mail client knows how to use this, and you will
probably agree with me that those whose mail client does not properly
use those fields should find a better mail client which follows
long-standing email standards.

Thank you also for drawing attention to the general list information
URL, sent in the footer of every message to the mailing list. This was
made much clearer by you leaving the entire message body blank. It will
help those who may not be as well-informed as you, and assist them in
changing their subscription settings.

Good hunting to you, and thank you for your contribution to our
community!

-- 
 \         ?Of all classes the rich are the most noticed and the least |
  `\      studied.? ?John Kenneth Galbraith, _The Age of Uncertainty_, |
_o__)                                                             1977 |
Ben Finney



From palakpandey2922 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 02:30:29 2016
From: palakpandey2922 at gmail.com (palak pandey)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 12:00:29 +0530
Subject: installation problem
Message-ID: <CAD8wiOvrzw0b_4EvGZOqU+k5mGZ=3UpMfX9fPamKXdQGGcUNCg@mail.gmail.com>

i m not able to install python software in my windows 10 os...
i have provided u with the image of error that is occurring during
installation
[image: Inline image 1]


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 10 03:14:49 2016
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 17:14:49 +1000
Subject: REMOVE ME
References: <CALuqfDDNQ0N6xQXEKurzK1v0eVfU7jr6=-uvLT1zeGcf3vgexQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.1.1460259991.424.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5709fd6a$0$1497$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sunday 10 April 2016 13:46, fan nie wrote:

> 

We cannot remove you. You subscribed, you have to unsubscribe yourself.

If you look at the footer of this email, right at the bottom, it should have 
instructions for unsubscribing.

Otherwise, go here:

https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

scroll to the bottom of the page, and follow the instructions to 
unsubscribe.




-- 
Steve



From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Apr 10 04:35:13 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 20:35:13 +1200
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
In-Reply-To: <87h9fa6gok.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>	<2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>	<d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>	<1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>	<5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>	<570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net>
 <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>	<753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>	<tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>	<mailman.100.1460161208.2253.python-list@python.org>	<D43Oy.790728$O02.451908@fx38.am4>
 <87h9fa6gok.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
Message-ID: <dmuhi4Fj186U1@mid.individual.net>

Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> The problem with that theory is that 'er/re' (this is e and r in either
> order) is the 3rd most common pair in English but have been placed
> together.

No, they haven't. The order of the characters in the type
basket goes down the slanted columns of keys, so E and R
are separated by D and C.

-- 
Greg


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Apr 10 05:25:48 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 21:25:48 +1200
Subject: Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?]
In-Reply-To: <87zit4exrj.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <ndmq58$lba$1@dont-email.me>
 <CAGgTfkPmCqQ4cC1o1Ov5W4GaZYJLXhREfDq+NdWL9r1Ef50QDA@mail.gmail.com>	<1459571270.714249.566352882.6ADCD0CC@webmail.messagingengine.com>	<CAPTjJmqtp=uhTE7FE=3mN7xZr40RCPNgxx3Zm5eLZ-7iWugDMQ@mail.gmail.com>	<CAGgTfkOhrDKBCDmL5ksU6k9-dduwjCXSV_N3r2jruJwfA4A4XA@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.365.1459608928.28225.python-list@python.org>	<87bn5sqcac.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>	<56ffedf1$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<87h9fkq7tl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>	<3524319.g0I1c1cpMS@PointedEars.de>	<afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>	<2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>	<d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>	<1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>	<5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>	<570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net>	<5707fc05$0$1603$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87zit4exrj.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <dmukguFjp7gU1@mid.individual.net>

> Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:
> 
>>But when you get down to fundamentals, character sets and alphabets have
>>always blurred the line between presentation and meaning. W ("double-u")
>>was, once upon a time, UU

And before that, it was VV, because the Romans used V the
way we now use U, and didn't have a letter U.

When U first appeared, it was just a cursive style of writing
a V. According to this, it wasn't until the 18th century that
the English alphabet got both U and V as separate letters:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=147677

Apparently "uu"/"vv" came to be known as "double u" prior to
that, and the name has persisted.

-- 
Greg


From geshdus at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 07:37:55 2016
From: geshdus at gmail.com (geshdus at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 04:37:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: function to remove and punctuation
Message-ID: <3af95726-6f5c-4a2d-bf42-061efedd13b1@googlegroups.com>

how to write a function taking a string parameter, which returns it after you delete the spaces, punctuation marks, accented characters in python ?


From steve at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 10 08:08:59 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 22:08:59 +1000
Subject: function to remove and punctuation
References: <3af95726-6f5c-4a2d-bf42-061efedd13b1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <570a425d$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:37 pm, geshdus at gmail.com wrote:

> how to write a function taking a string parameter, which returns it after
> you delete the spaces, punctuation marks, accented characters in python ?

In your text editor, open a new file.

Now bash your fingers onto the keyboard so that letters appear in the file. 

When you have the function, click Save.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)


Here is one to get you started:


def remove_punctuation(the_string):
    the_string = the_string.replace(".", "")
    return the_string



-- 
Steven



From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Apr 10 08:35:55 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:35:55 +0200
Subject: function to remove and punctuation
References: <3af95726-6f5c-4a2d-bf42-061efedd13b1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nedhbf$all$1@ger.gmane.org>

geshdus at gmail.com wrote:

> how to write a function taking a string parameter, which returns it after
> you delete the spaces, punctuation marks, accented characters in python ?

Looks like you want to remove more characters than you want to keep. In this 
case I'd decide what characters too keep first, e. g. (assuming Python 3)

>>> import string
>>> keep = string.ascii_letters + string.digits
>>> keep
'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ0123456789'

Now you can iterate over the characters and check if you want to preserve it 
for each of them:

>>> def clean(s, keep):
...     return "".join(c for c in s if c in keep)
... 
>>> clean("<alpha> ??? ::42", keep)
'alpha42'
>>> clean("<alpha> ??? ::42", string.ascii_letters)
'alpha'

If you are dealing with a lot of text you can make this a bit more efficient 
with the str.translate() method. Create a mapping that maps all characters 
that you want to keep to themselves

>>> m = str.maketrans(keep, keep)
>>> m[ord("a")]
97
>>> m[ord(">")]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
KeyError: 62

and all characters that you want to discard to None

>>> from collections import defaultdict
>>> trans = defaultdict(lambda: None, m)
>>> trans[ord("s")]
115
>>> trans[ord("?")] # returns None, so nothing is printed
>>> 

Now pass it to the translate() method:

>>> "<alpha> ??? ::42".translate(trans)
'alpha42'

You changed your mind and want to translate " " to "_"? Here's how:
>>> trans[ord(" ")] = "_"
>>> "<alpha> ??? ::42".translate(trans)
'alpha__42'

>>> trans[ord(" ")] = "_"
>>> "<alpha> ??? ::42".translate(trans)




From diego.o.lelis at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 08:41:07 2016
From: diego.o.lelis at gmail.com (Diego Lelis)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 05:41:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Change OnScreen Keyboard StringVar (Show linked to one Entry)
Message-ID: <78ee94cb-3e07-413f-b525-f0c4182cf920@googlegroups.com>

Hi guys, im having a little problem to make the StringVar Linked to my OnScreen Keyboard Change when the user click in one Entry.

Here's my code:
from tkinter import *

____________________________Begin Code_______________________________________

def frame(root, side):
    w = Frame(root)
    w.pack(side=side, expand=YES, fill=BOTH)
    return w

def button(root, side, text, command=None):
    w = Button(root, text=text, command=command)
    w.pack(side=side, expand=YES, fill=BOTH)
    return w


class Keyboard(Frame):
    def __init__(self):
        Frame.__init__(self)
        self.option_add('*Font', 'Verdana 12 bold')
        self.pack(expand=YES, fill=BOTH)
        self.master.title('Simple Screen Keyboard')

        def detect_Focus(event):
            print ('Change selected_display to the display correspondent to selected entry')

        display_1 = StringVar()
        entry_1 = Entry(self, relief=SUNKEN, textvariable=display_1)
        entry_1.bind('<FocusIn>', detect_Focus)
        entry_1.pack(side=TOP, expand=YES, fill=BOTH)


        display_2 = StringVar()
        entry_2 = Entry(self, relief=SUNKEN, textvariable=display_2)
        entry_2.bind('<FocusIn>', detect_Focus)
        entry_2.pack(side=TOP, expand=YES, fill=BOTH)

        selected_display = display_1

        for key in ("123", "456", "789", "-0."):
            keyF = frame(self, TOP)
            for char in key:
                button(keyF, LEFT, char,
                       lambda w=selected_display, c=char: w.set(w.get() + c))

if __name__ == '__main__':
    Keyboard().mainloop()


____________________________End Code_______________________________________


When i run the detect_Focus Function, i wanted change the selected_display, to make the user change the entry2(display_2), using my on screen keyboard.

Thanks in advance!


From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Apr 10 09:18:06 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 15:18:06 +0200
Subject: Change OnScreen Keyboard StringVar (Show linked to one Entry)
References: <78ee94cb-3e07-413f-b525-f0c4182cf920@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nedjqf$eh8$1@ger.gmane.org>

Diego Lelis wrote:

> Hi guys, im having a little problem to make the StringVar Linked to my
> OnScreen Keyboard Change when the user click in one Entry.
> 
> Here's my code:
> from tkinter import *
> 
> ____________________________Begin
> Code_______________________________________
> 
> def frame(root, side):
>     w = Frame(root)
>     w.pack(side=side, expand=YES, fill=BOTH)
>     return w
> 
> def button(root, side, text, command=None):
>     w = Button(root, text=text, command=command)
>     w.pack(side=side, expand=YES, fill=BOTH)
>     return w
> 
> 
> class Keyboard(Frame):
>     def __init__(self):
>         Frame.__init__(self)
>         self.option_add('*Font', 'Verdana 12 bold')
>         self.pack(expand=YES, fill=BOTH)
>         self.master.title('Simple Screen Keyboard')
> 
>         def detect_Focus(event):
>             print ('Change selected_display to the display correspondent
>             to selected entry')
> 
>         display_1 = StringVar()
>         entry_1 = Entry(self, relief=SUNKEN, textvariable=display_1)
>         entry_1.bind('<FocusIn>', detect_Focus)
>         entry_1.pack(side=TOP, expand=YES, fill=BOTH)
> 
> 
>         display_2 = StringVar()
>         entry_2 = Entry(self, relief=SUNKEN, textvariable=display_2)
>         entry_2.bind('<FocusIn>', detect_Focus)
>         entry_2.pack(side=TOP, expand=YES, fill=BOTH)
> 
>         selected_display = display_1
> 
>         for key in ("123", "456", "789", "-0."):
>             keyF = frame(self, TOP)
>             for char in key:
>                 button(keyF, LEFT, char,
>                        lambda w=selected_display, c=char: w.set(w.get() +
>                        c))
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     Keyboard().mainloop()
> 
> 
> ____________________________End
> Code_______________________________________
> 
> 
> When i run the detect_Focus Function, i wanted change the
> selected_display, to make the user change the entry2(display_2), using my
> on screen keyboard.

The problem is that by setting the default for w

>                 button(keyF, LEFT, char,
>                        lambda w=selected_display, c=char: w.set(w.get() +
>                        c))

you bind w to the current selected display, and to change that binding 
afterwards is messy. Instead you should use a variable in a scope shared by 
detect_Focus() and the lambda. If there is only ever one instance of 
Keyboard this could be the global scope, but using a function or a helper 
class if better. Here's the lazy approach that uses the scope of the 
__init__() method:

class Keyboard(Frame):
    def __init__(self):
        Frame.__init__(self)
        self.option_add('*Font', 'Verdana 12 bold')
        self.pack(expand=YES, fill=BOTH)
        self.master.title('Simple Screen Keyboard')

        def detect_Focus(event):
            nonlocal display
            print ('Change selected_display to the display correspondent to 
selected entry')
            display = display_2 if display is display_1 else display_1

        display_1 = StringVar()
        entry_1 = Entry(self, relief=SUNKEN, textvariable=display_1)
        entry_1.bind('<FocusIn>', detect_Focus)
        entry_1.pack(side=TOP, expand=YES, fill=BOTH)


        display_2 = StringVar()
        entry_2 = Entry(self, relief=SUNKEN, textvariable=display_2)
        entry_2.bind('<FocusIn>', detect_Focus)
        entry_2.pack(side=TOP, expand=YES, fill=BOTH)

        display = display_1

        for key in ("123", "456", "789", "-0."):
            keyF = frame(self, TOP)
            for char in key:
                button(keyF, LEFT, char,
                       lambda c=char: display.set(display.get() + c))




From diego.o.lelis at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 09:36:41 2016
From: diego.o.lelis at gmail.com (Diego Lelis)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 06:36:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Change Windows Tkinter after some time
Message-ID: <1a13aefe-c66e-412a-8e9d-9afb684153d4@googlegroups.com>

I need to make a change between windows, after some time. But i am have a little bit of trouble making my code work: My windows change only when i click on button, i tried to put lambda in my command and also don't work.

import tkinter as tk   # python3
#import Tkinter as tk   # python
import datetime
TITLE_FONT = ("Helvetica", 18, "bold")
time_start = datetime.datetime.now()
delta_time = datetime.timedelta(seconds = 5)
class SampleApp(tk.Tk):

    def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
        tk.Tk.__init__(self, *args, **kwargs)

        # the container is where we'll stack a bunch of frames
        # on top of each other, then the one we want visible
        # will be raised above the others
        container = tk.Frame(self)
        container.pack(side="top", fill="both", expand=True)
        container.grid_rowconfigure(0, weight=1)
        container.grid_columnconfigure(0, weight=1)
        self.frames = {}

        for F in (StartPage, TimePage):
            page_name = F.__name__
            frame = F(container, self)
            self.frames[page_name] = frame

            # put all of the pages in the same location;
            # the one on the top of the stacking order
            # will be the one that is visible.
            frame.grid(row=0, column=0, sticky="nsew")

        self.show_frame("StartPage")

    def show_frame(self, page_name):
        '''Show a frame for the given page name'''
        frame = self.frames[page_name]
        frame.tkraise()


class StartPage(tk.Frame):
    def __init__(self, parent, controller):

        tk.Frame.__init__(self, parent)
        self.controller = controller
        label = tk.Label(self, text="This is the start page", font=TITLE_FONT)
        label.pack(side="top", fill="x", pady=10)

        button1 = tk.Button(self, text="Go to Time Page",
                            command=lambda: controller.show_frame(self.start_Counting()) )
        button1.pack()

    def start_Counting(self):
        global time_start
        time_start = datetime.datetime.now()
        return 'TimePage'

class TimePage(tk.Frame):

    def __init__(self, parent, controller):
        global delta_time
        tk.Frame.__init__(self, parent)
        self.controller = controller
        label = tk.Label(self, text="This is Time Page", font=TITLE_FONT)
        label.pack(side="top", fill="x", pady=10)
        self.time_exit = tk.StringVar()
        self.time_exit.set('%s' %datetime.datetime.now())
        label2 = tk.Label(self, text=self.time_exit, font=TITLE_FONT)
        label2.pack(side="top", fill="x", pady=10)
        button = tk.Button(self, text="Go to the start page",
                           command=lambda: controller.show_frame("StartPage"))
        button.pack()

    def update_Page(self):
        global time_start, delta_time
        #print('Executou o atualizar')
        time_until = delta_time - (datetime.datetime.now() - time_start)
        self.time_exit.set('%s' %time_until)
        if time_until <= 0:
            self.controller.show_frame('StartPage') # Go to the start_page after 5 seconds
        self.after(1000, update_Page)

if __name__ == "__main__":
    app = SampleApp()
    app.mainloop()


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 09:43:13 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 07:43:13 -0600
Subject: QWERTY was not designed to intentionally slow typists down (was:
 Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?])
In-Reply-To: <ubgjgb98m59h2gda4f688efb9o0pu281ab@4ax.com>
References: <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net>
 <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.101.1460162658.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <570876f1$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1460216688.3801979.573748441.5F836BEB@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <65jigb1tb6hojh65op74md9veov1uu9v18@4ax.com>
 <mailman.132.1460228015.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <ubgjgb98m59h2gda4f688efb9o0pu281ab@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnPvu6RSCHOZFopHEY8ZxqodJN7iPYb2ncXNFk4bT-WHQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 9:09 PM, pyotr filipivich <phamp at mindspring.com> wrote:
>         ASINTOER are the top eight English letters (not in any order, it
> is just that "A Sin To Err" is easy to remember.

What's so hard to remember about ETA OIN SHRDLU? Plus that even gives
you the top twelve. :-)


From schumakerj59 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 09:54:30 2016
From: schumakerj59 at gmail.com (Jeff Schumaker)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 06:54:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unacceptable behavior
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2.1460011819.2253.python-list@python.org>
References: <57060359.1050002@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.2.1460011819.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0e6fb432-7ce0-4f94-89f7-45de6d0b0259@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 2:50:32 AM UTC-4, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 04/05/2016 01:05 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> 
>  > | >>> from email import ID10T
> 
> Thomas, as has been pointed out to you in previous threads it is not 
> necessary to be rude to be heard.
> 
> You are hereby placed in moderation for the Python List mailing list.
> 
> Every one else:  If you see offensive posts from Thomas on the usenet 
> side, please just ignore them.  I have no desire to see his posts in 
> your replies.
> 
> --
> ~Ethan~
> Python List Owners

Ethan,

As a new member of this group, I am not sure on how to report unacceptable behavior. If this is not the correct way, I apologize.

Please check the following thread:

Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid

I believe there was some unnecessary rudeness on the part of one of the respondants to the original post

Jeff


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 10:03:14 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 00:03:14 +1000
Subject: Unacceptable behavior
In-Reply-To: <0e6fb432-7ce0-4f94-89f7-45de6d0b0259@googlegroups.com>
References: <57060359.1050002@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.2.1460011819.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <0e6fb432-7ce0-4f94-89f7-45de6d0b0259@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq_Zt==2Lj99OrmVeKXVDg3CjJO+W6Uc6Ak4pyUJpFRSA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 11:54 PM, Jeff Schumaker <schumakerj59 at gmail.com> wrote:
> As a new member of this group, I am not sure on how to report unacceptable behavior. If this is not the correct way, I apologize.
>
> Please check the following thread:
>
> Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid
>
> I believe there was some unnecessary rudeness on the part of one of the respondants to the original post

My guess is you're talking about Mark Lawrence, and yes, I agree; he's
been fairly vitriolic.

The standard way to report abusive behaviour on mailing lists is to
contact the owner. For python-list at python.org, that's
python-list-owner at python.org, although the corresponding newsgroup
isn't really 'owned' in the same way.

ChrisA


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Sun Apr 10 10:21:24 2016
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 15:21:24 +0100
Subject: Unacceptable behavior
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmq_Zt==2Lj99OrmVeKXVDg3CjJO+W6Uc6Ak4pyUJpFRSA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <57060359.1050002@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.2.1460011819.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <0e6fb432-7ce0-4f94-89f7-45de6d0b0259@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmq_Zt==2Lj99OrmVeKXVDg3CjJO+W6Uc6Ak4pyUJpFRSA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <570A6164.6010502@timgolden.me.uk>

On 10/04/2016 15:03, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 11:54 PM, Jeff Schumaker <schumakerj59 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> As a new member of this group, I am not sure on how to report unacceptable behavior. If this is not the correct way, I apologize.
>>
>> Please check the following thread:
>>
>> Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid
>>
>> I believe there was some unnecessary rudeness on the part of one of the respondants to the original post
>
> My guess is you're talking about Mark Lawrence, and yes, I agree; he's
> been fairly vitriolic.
>
> The standard way to report abusive behaviour on mailing lists is to
> contact the owner. For python-list at python.org, that's
> python-list-owner at python.org, although the corresponding newsgroup
> isn't really 'owned' in the same way.

What Chris said: in the case of this list/newsgroup contact 
python-list-owner at python.org. If we decide to take action, and the 
person in question is coming in via Usenet, all we can do is block them 
at the gateway.

Be aware, though, that aside from patently unacceptable behaviour, we're 
not really interested in policing specific outbursts. People get hot 
under the collar, lose their cool, say things they might regret. And, 
thankfully, often come back a while later and apologise.

Where it's a case of persistent offensiveness and/or disruption to the 
list/newsgroup we'll consider pointing the fact out to the person in 
question and moderating their posts for a period. All we can do, really.

TJG


From PointedEars at web.de  Sun Apr 10 10:23:12 2016
From: PointedEars at web.de (Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 16:23:12 +0200
Subject: function to remove and punctuation
References: <3af95726-6f5c-4a2d-bf42-061efedd13b1@googlegroups.com>
 <nedhbf$all$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.2.1460291770.6211.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4030166.z2W5J3t6Yo@PointedEars.de>

Peter Otten wrote:

> geshdus at gmail.com wrote:
>> how to write a function taking a string parameter, which returns it after
>> you delete the spaces, punctuation marks, accented characters in python ?
> 
> Looks like you want to remove more characters than you want to keep. In
> this case I'd decide what characters too keep first, e. g. (assuming
> Python 3)

However, with *that* approach (which is different from the OP?s request), 
regular expression matching might turn out to be more efficient:

-----------------------------------------------------------
import re
print("".join(re.findall(r'[a-z]+', "...", re.IGNORECASE)))
-----------------------------------------------------------

With the OP?s original request, they may still be the better approach.
For example:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
import re
print("".join(re.sub(r'[\s,;.?!???????????]+', "", "...", 
                     flags=re.IGNORECASE)))
----------------------------------------------------------------------

or

----------------------------------------------------------------------
import re
print("".join(re.findall(r'[^\s,;.?!???????????]+', "", "...", 
                         flags=re.IGNORECASE)))
----------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>> import string
>>>> keep = string.ascii_letters + string.digits
>>>> keep
> 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ0123456789'
> 
> Now you can iterate over the characters and check if you want to preserve
> it for each of them:

The good thing about this part of the approach you suggested is that you can 
build regular expressions from strings, too:

  keep = '[' + 'a-z' + r'\d' + ']'
 
>>>> def clean(s, keep):
> ...     return "".join(c for c in s if c in keep)
> ...

Why would one prefer this over "".filter(lambda: c in keep, s)?

>>>> clean("<alpha> ??? ::42", keep)
> 'alpha42'
>>>> clean("<alpha> ??? ::42", string.ascii_letters)
> 'alpha'
> 
> If you are dealing with a lot of text you can make this a bit more
> efficient with the str.translate() method. Create a mapping that maps all
> characters that you want to keep to themselves
> 
>>>> m = str.maketrans(keep, keep)
>>>> m[ord("a")]
> 97
>>>> m[ord(">")]
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> KeyError: 62
> 
> and all characters that you want to discard to None

Why would creating a *larger* list for *more* operations be *more* 
efficient? 

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.


From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Apr 10 11:52:24 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 17:52:24 +0200
Subject: function to remove and punctuation
References: <3af95726-6f5c-4a2d-bf42-061efedd13b1@googlegroups.com>
 <nedhbf$all$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.2.1460291770.6211.python-list@python.org>
 <4030166.z2W5J3t6Yo@PointedEars.de>
Message-ID: <nedsrp$kmn$1@ger.gmane.org>

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

> Peter Otten wrote:
> 
>> geshdus at gmail.com wrote:
>>> how to write a function taking a string parameter, which returns it
>>> after you delete the spaces, punctuation marks, accented characters in
>>> python ?
>> 
>> Looks like you want to remove more characters than you want to keep. In
>> this case I'd decide what characters too keep first, e. g. (assuming
>> Python 3)
> 
> However, with *that* approach (which is different from the OP?s request),
> regular expression matching might turn out to be more efficient:
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> import re
> print("".join(re.findall(r'[a-z]+', "...", re.IGNORECASE)))
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> With the OP?s original request, they may still be the better approach.
> For example:
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> import re
> print("".join(re.sub(r'[\s,;.?!???????????]+', "", "...",
>                      flags=re.IGNORECASE)))
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> or
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> import re
> print("".join(re.findall(r'[^\s,;.?!???????????]+', "", "...",
>                          flags=re.IGNORECASE)))
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>>>>> import string
>>>>> keep = string.ascii_letters + string.digits
>>>>> keep
>> 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ0123456789'
>> 
>> Now you can iterate over the characters and check if you want to preserve
>> it for each of them:
> 
> The good thing about this part of the approach you suggested is that you
> can build regular expressions from strings, too:
> 
>   keep = '[' + 'a-z' + r'\d' + ']'
>  
>>>>> def clean(s, keep):
>> ...     return "".join(c for c in s if c in keep)
>> ...
> 
> Why would one prefer this over "".filter(lambda: c in keep, s)?

Because it's idiomatic Python and easy to understand if you are coming from 
the imperative

buf = []
for c in s:
    if c in keep:
        buf.append(c)
"".join(buf)

Because it uses Python syntax instead of the filter/map/reduce trio.

Because it avoids the extra function call (the lambda) though the speed 
difference is not as big as I expected:

$ python3 -m timeit -s 'import string; keep = string.ascii_letters + 
string.digits; s = "alphabet soup ?" * 1000' '"".join(filter(lambda c: c in 
keep, s))'
100 loops, best of 3: 4.66 msec per loop

$ python3 -m timeit -s 'import string; keep = string.ascii_letters + 
string.digits; s = "alphabet soup ?" * 1000' '"".join(c for c in s if c in 
keep)'
100 loops, best of 3: 3.11 msec per loop

For reference here is a variant using regular expressions (picked at random, 
feel free to find a faster one):

$ python3 -m timeit -s 'import string, re; keep = string.ascii_letters + 
string.digits; s = "alphabet soup ?" * 1000; sub=re.compile(r"[^a-zA-
Z0-9]+").sub' 'sub("", s)'
1000 loops, best of 3: 1.65 msec per loop

And finally str.translate():

$ python3 -m timeit -s 'import string, collections as c; keep = 
string.ascii_letters + string.digits; s = "alphabet soup ?" * 1000; trans = 
c.defaultdict(lambda: None, str.maketrans(keep, keep))' 's.translate(trans)'
1000 loops, best of 3: 997 usec per loop

>>>>> clean("<alpha> ??? ::42", keep)
>> 'alpha42'
>>>>> clean("<alpha> ??? ::42", string.ascii_letters)
>> 'alpha'
>> 
>> If you are dealing with a lot of text you can make this a bit more
>> efficient with the str.translate() method. Create a mapping that maps all
>> characters that you want to keep to themselves
>> 
>>>>> m = str.maketrans(keep, keep)
>>>>> m[ord("a")]
>> 97
>>>>> m[ord(">")]
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>> KeyError: 62
>> 
>> and all characters that you want to discard to None
> 
> Why would creating a *larger* list for *more* operations be *more*
> efficient?
> 

I don't understand the question. If you mean that the trans dict may become 
large -- that depends on the input data. The characters to be deleted are 
lazily added to the defaultdict. For text in european languages the total 
size should stay well below 256 entries. But you are probably aiming at 
something else...



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Sun Apr 10 13:05:24 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:05:24 -0700
Subject: Moderation and Usenet
Message-ID: <570A87D4.5010700@stoneleaf.us>

Mark Lawrence is currently being moderated.

If you see offensive posts from him on the Usenet side please do not 
respond.

Thank you.

--
~Ethan~
Python List Owners


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Sun Apr 10 13:06:49 2016
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 17:06:49 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Untrusted code execution
References: <slrnng31v9.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <slrnng7gj4.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <58de161a-ecdb-4ada-aab5-871876ea1574@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnng7tgu.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <CAPTjJmrHWFHY5CdUBj_GYRCgnAWjAJ0mvtTj0_wC8O8rfzwZFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.84.1459878492.32530.python-list@python.org>
 <570469d7$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <slrnngcjsj.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <1460039581.1132729.571798769.21A74B56@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.35.1460039584.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnngd5tc.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrnngl27g.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>

On 2016-04-07, Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> wrote:
> I've put an example script here:
>
>   https://github.com/jribbens/unsafe/blob/master/unsafe.py
>
> When run as a script, it will execute whatever Python code you pass it
> on stdin.
>
> If anyone can break it (by which I mean escape from the sandbox,
> not make it use up all the memory or go into an infinite loop,
> both of which are trivial) then I would be very interested.

I've updated the script a bit, to fix a couple of bugs, to add back in
'with' and 'import' (of white-listed modules) and to add a REPL mode
which makes experimenting inside the sandbox easier. I'm still
interested to see if anyone can find a way out of it ;-)


From breamoreboy at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 13:15:05 2016
From: breamoreboy at gmail.com (breamoreboy at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:15:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unacceptable behavior
In-Reply-To: <0e6fb432-7ce0-4f94-89f7-45de6d0b0259@googlegroups.com>
References: <57060359.1050002@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.2.1460011819.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <0e6fb432-7ce0-4f94-89f7-45de6d0b0259@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fa31e4ff-b8d9-4432-8bc5-67a9056ecde3@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 2:54:45 PM UTC+1, Jeff Schumaker wrote:
> On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 2:50:32 AM UTC-4, Ethan Furman wrote:
> > On 04/05/2016 01:05 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> > 
> >  > | >>> from email import ID10T
> > 
> > Thomas, as has been pointed out to you in previous threads it is not 
> > necessary to be rude to be heard.
> > 
> > You are hereby placed in moderation for the Python List mailing list.
> > 
> > Every one else:  If you see offensive posts from Thomas on the usenet 
> > side, please just ignore them.  I have no desire to see his posts in 
> > your replies.
> > 
> > --
> > ~Ethan~
> > Python List Owners
> 
> Ethan,
> 
> As a new member of this group, I am not sure on how to report unacceptable behavior. If this is not the correct way, I apologize.
> 
> Please check the following thread:
> 
> Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid
> 
> I believe there was some unnecessary rudeness on the part of one of the respondants to the original post
> 
> Jeff

I'm been through the entire thread and haven't got the faintest idea what you're talking about. Or are you in the camp that believes when someone is too bone idle to do any work for themselves, and turns up here asking for us to write all of their code for them, we should kill the fatted calf, roll out the red carpet, and then write the code?


From breamoreboy at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 13:16:02 2016
From: breamoreboy at gmail.com (breamoreboy at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:16:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unacceptable behavior
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5.1460297003.6211.python-list@python.org>
References: <57060359.1050002@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.2.1460011819.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <0e6fb432-7ce0-4f94-89f7-45de6d0b0259@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmq_Zt==2Lj99OrmVeKXVDg3CjJO+W6Uc6Ak4pyUJpFRSA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.5.1460297003.6211.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a0736599-9d83-4868-8a4f-639a5ee9544b@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 3:03:37 PM UTC+1, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 11:54 PM, Jeff Schumaker <schumakerj59 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > As a new member of this group, I am not sure on how to report unacceptable behavior. If this is not the correct way, I apologize.
> >
> > Please check the following thread:
> >
> > Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid
> >
> > I believe there was some unnecessary rudeness on the part of one of the respondants to the original post
> 
> My guess is you're talking about Mark Lawrence, and yes, I agree; he's
> been fairly vitriolic.
> 
> The standard way to report abusive behaviour on mailing lists is to
> contact the owner. For python-list at python.org, that's
> python-list-owner at python.org, although the corresponding newsgroup
> isn't really 'owned' in the same way.
> 
> ChrisA

You were wrong, care to have another go?


From random832 at fastmail.com  Sun Apr 10 13:52:14 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 13:52:14 -0400
Subject: Unacceptable behavior
In-Reply-To: <fa31e4ff-b8d9-4432-8bc5-67a9056ecde3@googlegroups.com>
References: <57060359.1050002@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.2.1460011819.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <0e6fb432-7ce0-4f94-89f7-45de6d0b0259@googlegroups.com>
 <fa31e4ff-b8d9-4432-8bc5-67a9056ecde3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1460310734.798790.574419657.4E9E991D@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016, at 13:15, breamoreboy at gmail.com wrote:
> Or are you in the camp that believes when someone
> is too bone idle to do any work for themselves, and turns up here asking
> for us to write all of their code for them, we should kill the fatted
> calf, roll out the red carpet, and then write the code?

You can be polite while still saying no.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Apr 10 14:00:15 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:00:15 -0400
Subject: Moderation and Usenet
In-Reply-To: <570A87D4.5010700@stoneleaf.us>
References: <570A87D4.5010700@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <nee4c7$7em$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/10/2016 1:05 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:

> If you see offensive posts from him  on the Usenet side please do not
> respond.

Just a reminder for those who, like me, prefer a newsgroup interface for 
python-list: gmane.comp.python.general at news.gmane.org mirrors the 
moderated output of python-list.  (Gmane does the same for 1000s of 
tecnhical lists.)  I believe that posts submitted from gmane are sent to 
the list *first*, and never appear on the gmane mirror until they appear 
on the list.  Thus one will not see and cannot accidentally respond to a 
post that did not appear on the list.  One gets the benefits of list 
moderation without a flooded mailbox.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Apr 10 14:11:00 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:11:00 -0400
Subject: Change Windows Tkinter after some time
In-Reply-To: <1a13aefe-c66e-412a-8e9d-9afb684153d4@googlegroups.com>
References: <1a13aefe-c66e-412a-8e9d-9afb684153d4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nee50c$ges$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/10/2016 9:36 AM, Diego Lelis wrote:
> I need to make a change between windows, after some time. But i am
> have a little bit of trouble making my code work: My windows change
> only when i click on button, i tried to put lambda in my command and
> also don't work.

I and others have written multiple answers on Stackoverflow about making 
root.after work.  I suggest that you search "[tkinter] root.after" there.

[snip somewhat baroque code]

I urge you to read SO's "How to create a Minimal, Complete, and 
Verifiable example" https://stackoverflow.com/help/mcve
This not only helps you write questions that get answers, but may help 
you find the problem yourself.

I believe that all the stuff with .now and datetime deltas is 
inessential noise. The initial parameter to .after is a integer 
millisecond delta. All the font stuff is irrelevant to the problem, so 
is some other stuff in your code.

I think you problem is that you never call root.after to start the 
process going.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Apr 10 15:13:25 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 15:13:25 -0400
Subject: Change Windows Tkinter after some time
In-Reply-To: <nee50c$ges$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <1a13aefe-c66e-412a-8e9d-9afb684153d4@googlegroups.com>
 <nee50c$ges$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <nee8le$8g0$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/10/2016 2:11 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 4/10/2016 9:36 AM, Diego Lelis wrote:
>> I need to make a change between windows, after some time. But i am
>> have a little bit of trouble making my code work: My windows change
>> only when i click on button, i tried to put lambda in my command and
>> also don't work.
>
> I and others have written multiple answers on Stackoverflow about making
> root.after work.  I suggest that you search "[tkinter] root.after" there.
>
> [snip somewhat baroque code]
>
> I urge you to read SO's "How to create a Minimal, Complete, and
> Verifiable example" https://stackoverflow.com/help/mcve
> This not only helps you write questions that get answers, but may help
> you find the problem yourself.
>
> I believe that all the stuff with .now and datetime deltas is
> inessential noise. The initial parameter to .after is a integer
> millisecond delta. All the font stuff is irrelevant to the problem, so
> is some other stuff in your code.
>
> I think you problem is that you never call root.after to start the
> process going.

I see you also posted on SO and got essentially the same answer 4 hours 
before I wasted my time saying the same thing because I thought you had 
been ignored.  Please don't do this.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Sun Apr 10 15:42:32 2016
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 20:42:32 +0100
Subject: Unacceptable behavior
In-Reply-To: <fa31e4ff-b8d9-4432-8bc5-67a9056ecde3@googlegroups.com>
References: <57060359.1050002@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.2.1460011819.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <0e6fb432-7ce0-4f94-89f7-45de6d0b0259@googlegroups.com>
 <fa31e4ff-b8d9-4432-8bc5-67a9056ecde3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <570AACA8.5000304@timgolden.me.uk>

On 10/04/2016 18:15, breamoreboy at gmail.com wrote:

[... snip Mark again, using a different address to avoid the moderation 
check ...]

Mark,

Please don't do this.

If you genuinely want this list to be a useful and friendly resource, 
which is what your posts suggest, then please step back and look at your 
own words and see whether they actually further that end.

As moderators, we don't intervene lightly or often. And it seems that 
the things for which we intervene (such as your repeated bolshy manner 
lately) are not the things for you which you would intervene (such as 
off-topic posts or ill-considered questions).

So be it. If this list isn't the thing you want it to be, and if its 
current moderators don't feel that it needs to change in the way you 
want it to change, then perhaps you should consider directing your 
undoubted energies elsewhere.

But please don't play cat-and-mouse just because you want to have the 
upper hand and get the last word. I said it before and I'll say it again 
here: have a little dignity and accept that your ideal is not everyone's 
and move on. Or be the better person and contribute usefully to the list 
as you've often done.

TJG


From fillmore_remove at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 10 18:51:02 2016
From: fillmore_remove at hotmail.com (Fillmore)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 18:51:02 -0400
Subject: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask
Message-ID: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org>


let's look at this:

$ python3.4
Python 3.4.0 (default, Apr 11 2014, 13:05:11)
[GCC 4.8.2] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> line1 = '"String1" | bla'
 >>> parts1 = line1.split(" | ")
 >>> parts1
['"String1"', 'bla']
 >>> tokens1 = eval(parts1[0])
 >>> tokens1
'String1'
 >>> tokens1[0]
'S'

and now this

 >>> line2 = '"String1","String2" | bla'
 >>> parts2 = line2.split(" | ")
 >>> tokens2 = eval(parts2[0])
 >>> tokens2
('String1', 'String2')
 >>> tokens2[0]
'String1'
 >>> type(tokens1)
<class 'str'>
 >>> type(tokens2)
<class 'tuple'>
 >>>


the question is: at which point did the language designers decide to betray the
"path of least surprise" principle and create a 'discontinuity' in the language?
Open to the idea that I am getting something fundamentally wrong. I'm new to Python...

Thanks




From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 18:58:03 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 08:58:03 +1000
Subject: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask
In-Reply-To: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo8KBNJovBKgKAWVb=ELE6Qpa4AMJ6QDG=ZmJB4cr5E4A@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Fillmore <fillmore_remove at hotmail.com> wrote:
> the question is: at which point did the language designers decide to betray
> the
> "path of least surprise" principle and create a 'discontinuity' in the
> language?
> Open to the idea that I am getting something fundamentally wrong. I'm new to
> Python...

Can you please simplify your example and show what the discontinuity
is you're referring to? You keep messing with eval and split and
stuff, and then looking at the types of things. Which part are you
surprised at?

ChrisA


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Apr 10 19:04:25 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:04:25 +1000
Subject: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <85a8l13w1y.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Fillmore <fillmore_remove at hotmail.com> writes:

> let's look at this:

Can you set a ?Subject? field that pertains to the actual question? As
is, it doesn't help know what you want to discuss.

> the question is: at which point did the language designers decide to
> betray the "path of least surprise" principle and create a
> 'discontinuity' in the language?

This, also, doesn't help us know what the question is.

Please describe what you expect that code to do, and if possible what it
is that surprises you about its behaviour.

-- 
 \       ?Repetition leads to boredom, boredom to horrifying mistakes, |
  `\       horrifying mistakes to God-I-wish-I-was-still-bored, and it |
_o__)              goes downhill from there.? ?Will Larson, 2008-11-04 |
Ben Finney



From me+python at ixokai.io  Sun Apr 10 19:30:24 2016
From: me+python at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 16:30:24 -0700
Subject: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask
In-Reply-To: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <1460331024.3440141.574603049.214AD5E6@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016, at 03:51 PM, Fillmore wrote:
> 
> let's look at this:
> 
> $ python3.4
> Python 3.4.0 (default, Apr 11 2014, 13:05:11)
> [GCC 4.8.2] on linux
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>  >>> line1 = '"String1" | bla'
>  >>> parts1 = line1.split(" | ")
>  >>> parts1
> ['"String1"', 'bla']
>  >>> tokens1 = eval(parts1[0])
>  >>> tokens1
> 'String1'
>  >>> tokens1[0]
> 'S'
> 
> and now this
> 
>  >>> line2 = '"String1","String2" | bla'
>  >>> parts2 = line2.split(" | ")
>  >>> tokens2 = eval(parts2[0])

I *THINK* what you're asking is why this returns a tuple, where in the
first eval you got a string. The answer is because commas create tuples
(not parens), so:

    "String1", "String2"

is a tuple expression. Whereas:

    "String1"

is a string expression. 

> the question is: at which point did the language designers decide to
> betray the
> "path of least surprise" principle and create a 'discontinuity' in the
> language?

There's nothing inconsistent or surprising going on besides you doing
something vaguely weird and not really expressing what you find
surprising.

--Stephen
m e @ i x o k a i . i o


From fillmore_remove at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 10 20:13:21 2016
From: fillmore_remove at hotmail.com (Fillmore)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 20:13:21 -0400
Subject: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I still
 want to ask]
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>


Sorry guys. It was not my intention to piss off anyone...just trying to understand how the languare works

I guess that the answer to my question is: there is no such thing as a one-element tuple,
and Python will automatically convert a one-element tuple to a string... hence the
behavior I observed is explained...

 >>> a = ('hello','bonjour')
 >>> b = ('hello')
 >>> b
'hello'
 >>> a
('hello', 'bonjour')
 >>>


Did I get this right this time?



From fillmore_remove at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 10 20:17:46 2016
From: fillmore_remove at hotmail.com (Fillmore)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 20:17:46 -0400
Subject: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460331024.3440141.574603049.214AD5E6@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.17.1460331027.6211.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <neeqf8$sac$1@gioia.aioe.org>

On 04/10/2016 07:30 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:

> There's nothing inconsistent or surprising going on besides you doing
> something vaguely weird and not really expressing what you find
> surprising.

well, I was getting some surprising results for some of my data, so I can
guarantee that I was surprised!

apparently my 'discontinuity' is mappable to the fact that there's no such
thing as one-element tuples in Python, and attempts to create one will
result in a string (i.e. an object of a different kind!)...







From me+python at ixokai.io  Sun Apr 10 20:18:31 2016
From: me+python at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 17:18:31 -0700
Subject: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question,
 but I still want to ask]
In-Reply-To: <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <1460333911.3449208.574628345.4B46CD32@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016, at 05:13 PM, Fillmore wrote:
> I guess that the answer to my question is: there is no such thing as a
> one-element tuple,
> and Python will automatically convert a one-element tuple to a string...
> hence the
> behavior I observed is explained...
> 
>  >>> a = ('hello','bonjour')
>  >>> b = ('hello')
>  >>> b
> 'hello'
>  >>> a
> ('hello', 'bonjour')
>  >>>
> 
> 
> Did I get this right this time?

No, you didn't. Your mistake is again -- parens don't make tuples,
commas do.

A one element tuple is:
>>> b = ("hello,)

The parens are optional, I always put them in because:
>>> b = "hello",

The parens group an expression, they don't make a type.

--
Stephen Hansen
  m e @ i x o k a i . i o


From me+python at ixokai.io  Sun Apr 10 20:19:48 2016
From: me+python at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 17:19:48 -0700
Subject: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question,
 but I still want to ask]
In-Reply-To: <1460333911.3449208.574628345.4B46CD32@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460333911.3449208.574628345.4B46CD32@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <1460333988.3449343.574629401.5CF19822@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016, at 05:18 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> The parens are optional, I always put them in because:
> >>> b = "hello",

Ahem, "because its easy to miss the trailing comma" is what I meant to
say here.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 20:20:32 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:20:32 +1000
Subject: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I
 still want to ask]
In-Reply-To: <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org>
	<neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq9rOs8frwwmjuioZBCd86dnCwPvebF3hqg0F=CPPHO-w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 10:13 AM, Fillmore <fillmore_remove at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry guys. It was not my intention to piss off anyone...just trying to
> understand how the languare works
>
> I guess that the answer to my question is: there is no such thing as a
> one-element tuple,
> and Python will automatically convert a one-element tuple to a string...
> hence the
> behavior I observed is explained...
>
>>>> a = ('hello','bonjour')
>>>> b = ('hello')
>>>> b
> 'hello'
>>>> a
> ('hello', 'bonjour')
>>>>
>
>
> Did I get this right this time?

Okay, now you're asking a question in a reasonable way, so we can answer :)

The thing you're confused at is that it's not the parentheses that
create a tuple. Parentheses merely group.

>>> 'hello', 'bonjour'
('hello', 'bonjour')
>>> 'hello',
('hello',)

One-element tuples are perfectly possible, but you MUST have a comma,
so you have one at the end. The trailing comma is perfectly legal (and
ignored) on larger tuples.

>>> 'hello', 'bonjour',
('hello', 'bonjour')

ChrisA


From fillmore_remove at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 10 20:22:15 2016
From: fillmore_remove at hotmail.com (Fillmore)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 20:22:15 -0400
Subject: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but
 I still want to ask]
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org>

On 04/10/2016 08:13 PM, Fillmore wrote:
>
> Sorry guys. It was not my intention to piss off anyone...just trying to understand how the languare works
>
> I guess that the answer to my question is: there is no such thing as a one-element tuple,
> and Python will automatically convert a one-element tuple to a string... hence the
> behavior I observed is explained...
>
>  >>> a = ('hello','bonjour')
>  >>> b = ('hello')
>  >>> b
> 'hello'
>  >>> a
> ('hello', 'bonjour')
>  >>>


Hold on a sec! it turns up that there is such thing as single-element tuples in python:

 >>> c = ('hello',)
 >>> c
('hello',)
 >>> c[0]
'hello'
 >>> c[1]
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
IndexError: tuple index out of range
 >>>

So, my original question makes sense. Why was a discontinuation point introduced by the language designer?




From me+python at ixokai.io  Sun Apr 10 20:28:39 2016
From: me+python at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 17:28:39 -0700
Subject: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question,
 but I still want to ask]
In-Reply-To: <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <1460334519.3450964.574635185.2D79B8FC@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016, at 05:22 PM, Fillmore wrote:
> Hold on a sec! it turns up that there is such thing as single-element
> tuples in python:
> 
>  >>> c = ('hello',)
>  >>> c
> ('hello',)
>  >>> c[0]
> 'hello'
>  >>> c[1]
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> IndexError: tuple index out of range
>  >>>
> 
> So, my original question makes sense. Why was a discontinuation point
> introduced by the language designer?

What discontinuation point? 

You keep masterfully managing to *not explain what you're asking*. What
is surprising to you? 

--S


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Apr 10 20:30:22 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:30:22 +1000
Subject: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question,
 but I still want to ask]
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <8560vp3s2p.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Fillmore <fillmore_remove at hotmail.com> writes:

> Sorry guys. It was not my intention to piss off anyone...just trying
> to understand how the languare works

Frustration is understandable when learning something new :-) Hopefully
that can be a signal to take a breath, and compose messages to minimise
frustration for the readers.

> I guess that the answer to my question is: there is no such thing as a
> one-element tuple,

Certainly there is. Tuples ? like any container type ? can contain zero,
one, or more items.

    >>> foo = ()
    >>> bar = ("spam",)
    >>> baz = ("spam", "eggs")
    >>> blub = ("spam", "eggs", "beans")
    >>> len(foo)
    0
    >>> len(bar)
    1
    >>> len(baz)
    2
    >>> len(blub)
    3

> and Python will automatically convert a one-element tuple to a
> string...

You appear to be confusing text representation, and program syntax, and
the values themselves.

Program syntax is the structured text you type, in order that Python
should compile it and result in program code. That source code is text
with a specific representation of values and statements.

The values themselves are what exist within the Python process while it
is executing your compiled code. There is no text representation of
that, Python manipulates the values in an internal representation
normally inaccessible to the program itself.

The text representation that objects can generate on request is yet
another matter; for convenience it sometimes matches a syntactic text
that could be used to construct an equal value, but often that's not the
case. It should not be thought of as any kind of universal rule.

> Did I get this right this time?

I hope that helps to distinguish the different matters that are
confusing you.

-- 
 \        ?Last year I went fishing with Salvador Dali. He was using a |
  `\          dotted line. He caught every other fish.? ?Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Apr 10 20:31:39 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:31:39 +1000
Subject: one-element tuples
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <851t6d3s0k.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>

Fillmore <fillmore_remove at hotmail.com> writes:

> So, my original question makes sense. Why was a discontinuation point
> introduced by the language designer?

Can you describe explicitly what that ?discontinuation point? is? I'm
not seeing it.

-- 
 \           ?People are very open-minded about new things, as long as |
  `\         they're exactly like the old ones.? ?Charles F. Kettering |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From me+python at ixokai.io  Sun Apr 10 20:32:43 2016
From: me+python at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 17:32:43 -0700
Subject: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask
In-Reply-To: <neeqf8$sac$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460331024.3440141.574603049.214AD5E6@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.17.1460331027.6211.python-list@python.org>
 <neeqf8$sac$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <1460334763.3451761.574636321.6384BC79@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016, at 05:17 PM, Fillmore wrote:
> On 04/10/2016 07:30 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> 
> > There's nothing inconsistent or surprising going on besides you doing
> > something vaguely weird and not really expressing what you find
> > surprising.
> 
> well, I was getting some surprising results for some of my data, so I can
> guarantee that I was surprised!

The point is you are not saying *what* is surprising. Nothing in your
example code looks the least bit surprising to me, but I've been using
Python for ages. If you're surprised by something, say *what* surprises
you at the very least.

But to repeat what I said that you didn't quote: the thing you need to
understand is that parentheses do not create tuples, commas do.

Parentheses only group things together.

--Stephen
m e @ i x o k a i . i o


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Apr 10 20:33:10 2016
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 01:33:10 +0100
Subject: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I
 still want to ask]
In-Reply-To: <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <570AF0C6.7020007@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-11 01:13, Fillmore wrote:
>
> Sorry guys. It was not my intention to piss off anyone...just trying to understand how the languare works
>
> I guess that the answer to my question is: there is no such thing as a one-element tuple,
> and Python will automatically convert a one-element tuple to a string... hence the
> behavior I observed is explained...
>
>   >>> a = ('hello','bonjour')
>   >>> b = ('hello')
>   >>> b
> 'hello'
>   >>> a
> ('hello', 'bonjour')
>   >>>
>
>
> Did I get this right this time?
>
Nope. :-)

A one-element tuple can be written as:

 >>> ('hello',)
('hello',)

As has been said already, it's the comma that makes the tuple. The 
parentheses are often needed to avoid ambiguity.

For example, object are passed into a function thus:

     f(x, y)

(In reality, it's making a tuple and then passing that in.)

What if you want to pass in the tuple (1, 2) as a single argument?

     f((1, 2))

If you write this:

     f(1, 2)

it passes them in as 2 separate arguments.

Or consider this:

    f((1, 2), 3)

This has 2 arguments: the first is the tuple (1, 2) and the second is 
the int 3.

There _is_ one exception though: (). It's the empty tuple (a 0-element 
tuple). It doesn't have a comma and the parentheses are mandatory. 
There's no other way to write it.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 20:38:33 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:38:33 +1000
Subject: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I
 still want to ask]
In-Reply-To: <570AF0C6.7020007@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <570AF0C6.7020007@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrgrmoqOJA=SCtf29s3H21BOvjJ-d0VfT9C95a9v9fh=w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 10:33 AM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> For example, object are passed into a function thus:
>
>     f(x, y)
>
> (In reality, it's making a tuple and then passing that in.)

Actually that's not the case; certain syntactic constructs allow you
to specify multiple of something, without packaging them up into a
tuple. Function arguments and parameters are like this; otherwise
keyword arguments would have to be some kind of magic syntax in
tuples, instead of being a feature of function calls.

But there are plenty of situations where what you're describing _is_
the case, such as assigning multiple values to multiple targets:

# Package up y and x into a tuple
# Then unpack the tuple into two names
x, y = y, x

ChrisA


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Apr 10 20:45:08 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:45:08 +1000
Subject: Parens do create a tuple (was: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably
 a stupid question, but I still want to ask])
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460333911.3449208.574628345.4B46CD32@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>

Stephen Hansen <me+python at ixokai.io> writes:

> [?] parens don't make tuples, commas do.


Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:

> The thing you're confused at is that it's not the parentheses that
> create a tuple. Parentheses merely group.


MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> writes:

> As has been said already, it's the comma that makes the tuple. The
> parentheses are often needed to avoid ambiguity.

This is too simplistic, and IMO it's just sowing the seed for future
confusion.

As MRAB states in the same message:

> There _is_ one exception though: (). It's the empty tuple (a 0-element
> tuple). It doesn't have a comma and the parentheses are mandatory.
> There's no other way to write it.

So, let's please stop saying ?parens don't create a tuple?. They do, and
because of that I've stopped saying that false over-simplification.

A pair of tuples as an expression is literal syntax to create a tuple
with zero items.

Also, there is another obvious way to create an empty tuple: call the
?tuple? type directly:

    >>> foo = tuple()
    >>> print(type(foo), len(foo))
    <class 'tuple'> 0

So the expanation that remains true when you examine it is: People
wanted a literal syntax to create a zero-length tuple. A pair of parens
is that literal syntax, and it's the parens that create the (empty)
tuple.

-- 
 \     ?It is hard to believe that a man is telling the truth when you |
  `\      know that you would lie if you were in his place.? ?Henry L. |
_o__)                                                          Mencken |
Ben Finney



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Apr 10 20:46:35 2016
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 19:46:35 -0500
Subject: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I
 still want to ask]
In-Reply-To: <570AF0C6.7020007@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <570AF0C6.7020007@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <20160410194635.075e2ac2@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2016-04-11 01:33, MRAB wrote:
> A one-element tuple can be written as:
> 
>  >>> ('hello',)  
> ('hello',)
> 
> As has been said already, it's the comma that makes the tuple. The 
> parentheses are often needed to avoid ambiguity.

Except when the comma *doesn't* make the tuple:

   >>> t = ()
   >>> type(t)
   <class 'tuple'>

;-)

-tkc




From fillmore_remove at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 10 20:48:35 2016
From: fillmore_remove at hotmail.com (Fillmore)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 20:48:35 -0400
Subject: one-element tuples
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org> <851t6d3s0k.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.4.1460334906.13861.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org>

On 04/10/2016 08:31 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Can you describe explicitly what that ?discontinuation point? is? I'm
> not seeing it.

Here you go:

 >>> a = '"string1"'
 >>> b = '"string1","string2"'
 >>> c = '"string1","string2","string3"'
 >>> ea = eval(a)
 >>> eb = eval(b)
 >>> ec = eval(c)
 >>> type(ea)
<class 'str'>   <--- HERE !!!!
 >>> type(eb)
<class 'tuple'>
 >>> type(ec)
<class 'tuple'>

I can tell you that it exists because it bit me in the butt today...

and mind you, I am not saying that this is wrong. I'm just saying that it surprised me.





From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 20:50:36 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:50:36 +1000
Subject: Parens do create a tuple (was: one-element tuples [Was: Most
 probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask])
In-Reply-To: <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460333911.3449208.574628345.4B46CD32@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqXpXvDCJWPypvZodBbJ+hkf_Hizz9Cb-2-4MbLdv=-cQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 10:45 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> So the expanation that remains true when you examine it is: People
> wanted a literal syntax to create a zero-length tuple. A pair of parens
> is that literal syntax, and it's the parens that create the (empty)
> tuple.

But parens do NOT create a one-element tuple, and that's usually where
people trip up. If you show someone this line of code:

x = ()

and ask what x will be, you might get some wrong responses, but you'll
get a lot of people correctly deducing that it's a tuple. The problem
is that people see this progression:

x = ()
y = (1)
z = (1, 2)

and assume they're all tuples. A better progression is this:

x = ()
y = (1,)
z = (1, 2,)

where every element is followed by a comma and every tuple is
surrounded by parentheses. In that situation, everything works. There
are slightly different rules about which parts are optional (the
parens everywhere except the first case, and the last comma everywhere
except the second), but this should be the basic form of tuple
progression.

ChrisA


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Apr 10 20:52:03 2016
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 19:52:03 -0500
Subject: Parens do create a tuple (was: one-element tuples [Was: Most
 probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask])
In-Reply-To: <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460333911.3449208.574628345.4B46CD32@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <20160410195203.72e365a9@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2016-04-11 10:45, Ben Finney wrote:
> Also, there is another obvious way to create an empty tuple: call
> the ?tuple? type directly:
> 
>     >>> foo = tuple()
>     >>> print(type(foo), len(foo))  
>     <class 'tuple'> 0

But here the parens make the tuple too:

  >>> foo = tuple
  >>> print(type(foo))
  <class 'type'>
  >>> len(foo)
  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  TypeError: object of type 'type' has no len()

(totally just yanking chains, throwing pebbles in the pond to watch
the ripples, and otherwise sewing confusion ;-)

-tkc






From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Apr 10 20:56:25 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:56:25 +1000
Subject: one-element tuples
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org> <851t6d3s0k.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.4.1460334906.13861.python-list@python.org>
 <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <85mvp12cau.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Fillmore <fillmore_remove at hotmail.com> writes:

> Here you go:
>
> >>> a = '"string1"'
> >>> b = '"string1","string2"'
> >>> c = '"string1","string2","string3"'
> >>> ea = eval(a)
> >>> eb = eval(b)
> >>> ec = eval(c)
> >>> type(ea)
> <class 'str'>   <--- HERE !!!!
> >>> type(eb)
> <class 'tuple'>
> >>> type(ec)
> <class 'tuple'>
>
> I can tell you that it exists because it bit me in the butt today...
>
> and mind you, I am not saying that this is wrong. I'm just saying that
> it surprised me.

What behaviour did you expect instead? That's still unclear.

Can you show the fictional session that would result from the behaviour
you expect?

-- 
 \         ?Education is learning what you didn't even know you didn't |
  `\                  know.? ?Daniel J. Boorstin, historian, 1914?2004 |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Apr 10 20:57:28 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:57:28 +1000
Subject: Parens do create a tuple
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460333911.3449208.574628345.4B46CD32@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmqXpXvDCJWPypvZodBbJ+hkf_Hizz9Cb-2-4MbLdv=-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85inzp2c93.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:

> On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 10:45 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> > So the expanation that remains true when you examine it is: People
> > wanted a literal syntax to create a zero-length tuple. A pair of parens
> > is that literal syntax, and it's the parens that create the (empty)
> > tuple.
>
> But parens do NOT create a one-element tuple, and that's usually where
> people trip up.

So let's stop saying ?parens do not create a tuple?, because that's just
wantonly creating *another* stubling block.

-- 
 \         ?Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?? ?I think so, |
  `\    Brain, but don't you need a swimming pool to play Marco Polo?? |
_o__)                                           ?_Pinky and The Brain_ |
Ben Finney



From ned at nedbatchelder.com  Sun Apr 10 21:00:00 2016
From: ned at nedbatchelder.com (Ned Batchelder)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 18:00:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: one-element tuples
In-Reply-To: <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org> <851t6d3s0k.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.4.1460334906.13861.python-list@python.org>
 <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <1bbedc55-fcb1-4858-aa1f-469328d8f812@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 8:48:49 PM UTC-4, Fillmore wrote:
> On 04/10/2016 08:31 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> > Can you describe explicitly what that "discontinuation point" is? I'm
> > not seeing it.
> 
> Here you go:
> 
>  >>> a = '"string1"'
>  >>> b = '"string1","string2"'
>  >>> c = '"string1","string2","string3"'
>  >>> ea = eval(a)
>  >>> eb = eval(b)
>  >>> ec = eval(c)
>  >>> type(ea)
> <class 'str'>   <--- HERE !!!!
>  >>> type(eb)
> <class 'tuple'>
>  >>> type(ec)
> <class 'tuple'>
> 
> I can tell you that it exists because it bit me in the butt today...
> 
> and mind you, I am not saying that this is wrong. I'm just saying that it surprised me.

Perhaps the extra complication of eval is confusing things.  This:

    >>> a = '"string1"'
    >>> ea = eval(a)
    >>> type(ea)
    <class 'str'>

is the same as:

    >>> type("string1")
    <class 'str'>

Does that surprise you?  "string1" sure looks like a plain-old string to
me, I'm not sure why you would think it would be a tuple.

Your three expressions are:

    ea = "string1"
    eb = "string1","string2"
    ec = "string1","string2","string3"

ea is a string, eb is a two-element tuple (both elements are strings), 
and ec is a three-element tuple (all elements are strings).

As others have said, commas make tuples.  Your first expression has no
commas (and no parens!) so it is not a tuple.

--Ned.


From me at ixokai.io  Sun Apr 10 21:03:59 2016
From: me at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 18:03:59 -0700
Subject: Parens do create a tuple (was: one-element tuples [Was: Most
 probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask])
In-Reply-To: <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460333911.3449208.574628345.4B46CD32@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <1460336639.3457857.574651545.4B992A32@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016, at 05:45 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> So, let's please stop saying ?parens don't create a tuple?. They do, and
> because of that I've stopped saying that false over-simplification.

I stand by "parens don't make a tuple", with the caveat that I should
have mentioned the empty tuple exception that proves the rule. The only
time you need parens is to resolve ambiguity.

To suggest that parens do make tuples confuses the issue, given things
like this:
>>> a = 1,2,3
>>> b = (1, 2, 3)

--
Stephen Hansen
  m e @ i x o k a i  . i o


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 21:04:17 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:04:17 +1000
Subject: Parens do create a tuple
In-Reply-To: <85inzp2c93.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460333911.3449208.574628345.4B46CD32@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmqXpXvDCJWPypvZodBbJ+hkf_Hizz9Cb-2-4MbLdv=-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <85inzp2c93.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp=VDKwgKNXgED2nbYqsQ4J0OfRxA6F4HLR5_oakOGpGA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 10:57 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 10:45 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>> > So the expanation that remains true when you examine it is: People
>> > wanted a literal syntax to create a zero-length tuple. A pair of parens
>> > is that literal syntax, and it's the parens that create the (empty)
>> > tuple.
>>
>> But parens do NOT create a one-element tuple, and that's usually where
>> people trip up.
>
> So let's stop saying ?parens do not create a tuple?, because that's just
> wantonly creating *another* stubling block.

Fair enough. Let's instead say "commas create tuples", which is true
in all cases except the singleton empty tuple. Is that near enough
that we can avoid the detail?

I'd rather be correct on the one-element case and wrong on the empty
than the other way around.

ChrisA


From me+python at ixokai.io  Sun Apr 10 21:07:46 2016
From: me+python at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 18:07:46 -0700
Subject: one-element tuples
In-Reply-To: <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org> <851t6d3s0k.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.4.1460334906.13861.python-list@python.org>
 <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <1460336866.3458680.574656001.1954E9A7@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016, at 05:48 PM, Fillmore wrote:
> On 04/10/2016 08:31 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> > Can you describe explicitly what that ?discontinuation point? is? I'm
> > not seeing it.
> 
> Here you go:
> 
>  >>> a = '"string1"'

Here, "a" is a string that contains a double quoted string. So if you
evaluate it, you get a string.

>  >>> b = '"string1","string2"'

Here, "b" is a string that contains two double quoted strings separated
by a comma. So if you evaluate it, you get a tuple of two strings.

>  >>> c = '"string1","string2","string3"'

This is as above, but with three items.

With that in mind:
>  >>> ea = eval(a)
>  >>> eb = eval(b)
>  >>> ec = eval(c)
>  >>> type(ea)
> <class 'str'> 
>  >>> type(eb)
> <class 'tuple'>
>  >>> type(ec)
> <class 'tuple'>

This should all be expected. The commas, when you evaluate them, are in
B&C making tuples. There's only a single string in A, so you get a
string. If you wanted a one item tuple, you would have written:

>>> a = '"string1",'

Note the trailing comma.

> I can tell you that it exists because it bit me in the butt today...
> 
> and mind you, I am not saying that this is wrong. I'm just saying that it
> surprised me.

If the above doesn't explain it, then I still don't understand what
you're finding surprising and what you'd expect otherwise.

---Stephen
m e @ i x o k a i . i o


From martin at linux-ip.net  Sun Apr 10 21:08:02 2016
From: martin at linux-ip.net (Martin A. Brown)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 18:08:02 -0700
Subject: one-element tuples
In-Reply-To: <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org> <851t6d3s0k.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.4.1460334906.13861.python-list@python.org>
 <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604101756410.9117@qnttre.jbaqresebt.arg>


Hello Fillmore,

> Here you go:
>
> >>> a = '"string1"'
> >>> b = '"string1","string2"'
> >>> c = '"string1","string2","string3"'
> >>> ea = eval(a)
> >>> eb = eval(b)
> >>> ec = eval(c)
> >>> type(ea)
> <class 'str'>   <--- HERE !!!!
> >>> type(eb)
> <class 'tuple'>
> >>> type(ec)
> <class 'tuple'>
>
> I can tell you that it exists because it bit me in the butt today...
>
> and mind you, I am not saying that this is wrong. I'm just saying 
> that it surprised me.

Recently in one of these two threads on your question, people have 
identified why the behaviour is as it is.

Below, I will add one question (about eval) and one suggestion about 
how to circumvent the behaviour you perceive as a language 
discontinuity.

#1: I would not choose eval() except when there is no other 
    solution.  If you don't need eval(), it may save you some 
    headache in the future, as well, to find an alternate way.
    So, can we help you choose something other than eval()?
    What are you trying to do with that usage?

#2: Yes, but, you can outsmart Python here!  Simply include a 
    terminal comma in each case, right?  In short, you can force
    the consuming language (Python, because you are calling eval())
    to understand the string as a tuple of strings, rather than 
    merely one string.

    >>> a = '"string1",'
    >>> ea = eval(a)
    >>> len(ea), type(ea)
    (1, <type 'tuple'>)

    >>> b = '"string1","string2",'
    >>> eb = eval(b)
    >>> len(eb), type(eb)
    (2, <type 'tuple'>)

    >>> c = '"string1","string2","string3",'
    >>> ec = eval(c)
    >>> len(ec), type(ec)
    (3, <type 'tuple'>)

Good luck in your continuing Python explorations,

-Martin

P.S. Where do your double-quoted strings come from, anyway?

-- 
Martin A. Brown
http://linux-ip.net/


From schumakerj59 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 21:29:03 2016
From: schumakerj59 at gmail.com (Jeff Schumaker)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 18:29:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unacceptable behavior
In-Reply-To: <fa31e4ff-b8d9-4432-8bc5-67a9056ecde3@googlegroups.com>
References: <57060359.1050002@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.2.1460011819.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <0e6fb432-7ce0-4f94-89f7-45de6d0b0259@googlegroups.com>
 <fa31e4ff-b8d9-4432-8bc5-67a9056ecde3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c08932a6-3f94-414c-9abb-bb6d78587c2c@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 1:15:18 PM UTC-4, bream... at gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 2:54:45 PM UTC+1, Jeff Schumaker wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 2:50:32 AM UTC-4, Ethan Furman wrote:
> > > On 04/05/2016 01:05 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> > > 
> > >  > | >>> from email import ID10T
> > > 
> > > Thomas, as has been pointed out to you in previous threads it is not 
> > > necessary to be rude to be heard.
> > > 
> > > You are hereby placed in moderation for the Python List mailing list.
> > > 
> > > Every one else:  If you see offensive posts from Thomas on the usenet 
> > > side, please just ignore them.  I have no desire to see his posts in 
> > > your replies.
> > > 
> > > --
> > > ~Ethan~
> > > Python List Owners
> > 
> > Ethan,
> > 
> > As a new member of this group, I am not sure on how to report unacceptable behavior. If this is not the correct way, I apologize.
> > 
> > Please check the following thread:
> > 
> > Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid
> > 
> > I believe there was some unnecessary rudeness on the part of one of the respondants to the original post
> > 
> > Jeff
> 
> I'm been through the entire thread and haven't got the faintest idea what you're talking about. Or are you in the camp that believes when someone is too bone idle to do any work for themselves, and turns up here asking for us to write all of their code for them, we should kill the fatted calf, roll out the red carpet, and then write the code?

Certainly not, but as Random832 says, you can politely say No.

I realize there is no minimum requirement for social etiquette to be a good programmer. Or a bad one, for that matter. But if the purpose of this group is to help others with Python, simple courtesy seems to be common sense.

Jeff


From schumakerj59 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 21:33:32 2016
From: schumakerj59 at gmail.com (Jeff Schumaker)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 18:33:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unacceptable behavior
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5.1460297003.6211.python-list@python.org>
References: <57060359.1050002@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.2.1460011819.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <0e6fb432-7ce0-4f94-89f7-45de6d0b0259@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmq_Zt==2Lj99OrmVeKXVDg3CjJO+W6Uc6Ak4pyUJpFRSA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.5.1460297003.6211.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cbc24387-b6e2-4efd-b9e3-e369a656b67b@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 10:03:37 AM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 11:54 PM, Jeff Schumaker wrote

> > As a new member of this group, I am not sure on how to report unacceptable behavior. If this is not the correct way, I apologize.
> >
> > Please check the following thread:
> >
> > Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid
> >
> > I believe there was some unnecessary rudeness on the part of one of the respondants to the original post
> 
> My guess is you're talking about Mark Lawrence, and yes, I agree; he's
> been fairly vitriolic.
> 
> The standard way to report abusive behaviour on mailing lists is to
> contact the owner. 
> 
> ChrisA

No, this was a different poster. And, thanks, Chris, for the email address. I will give it a shot.

Jeff


From ned at nedbatchelder.com  Sun Apr 10 21:34:28 2016
From: ned at nedbatchelder.com (Ned Batchelder)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 18:34:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unacceptable behavior
In-Reply-To: <c08932a6-3f94-414c-9abb-bb6d78587c2c@googlegroups.com>
References: <57060359.1050002@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.2.1460011819.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <0e6fb432-7ce0-4f94-89f7-45de6d0b0259@googlegroups.com>
 <fa31e4ff-b8d9-4432-8bc5-67a9056ecde3@googlegroups.com>
 <c08932a6-3f94-414c-9abb-bb6d78587c2c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6b8db4c0-59f0-4293-9318-cebfa12c41d2@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 9:29:19 PM UTC-4, Jeff Schumaker wrote:
> On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 1:15:18 PM UTC-4, bream... at gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 2:54:45 PM UTC+1, Jeff Schumaker wrote:
> > > On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 2:50:32 AM UTC-4, Ethan Furman wrote:
> > > > On 04/05/2016 01:05 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> > > > 
> > > >  > | >>> from email import ID10T
> > > > 
> > > > Thomas, as has been pointed out to you in previous threads it is not 
> > > > necessary to be rude to be heard.
> > > > 
> > > > You are hereby placed in moderation for the Python List mailing list.
> > > > 
> > > > Every one else:  If you see offensive posts from Thomas on the usenet 
> > > > side, please just ignore them.  I have no desire to see his posts in 
> > > > your replies.
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > ~Ethan~
> > > > Python List Owners
> > > 
> > > Ethan,
> > > 
> > > As a new member of this group, I am not sure on how to report unacceptable behavior. If this is not the correct way, I apologize.
> > > 
> > > Please check the following thread:
> > > 
> > > Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid
> > > 
> > > I believe there was some unnecessary rudeness on the part of one of the respondants to the original post
> > > 
> > > Jeff
> > 
> > I'm been through the entire thread and haven't got the faintest idea what you're talking about. Or are you in the camp that believes when someone is too bone idle to do any work for themselves, and turns up here asking for us to write all of their code for them, we should kill the fatted calf, roll out the red carpet, and then write the code?
> 
> Certainly not, but as Random832 says, you can politely say No.
> 
> I realize there is no minimum requirement for social etiquette to be a good programmer. Or a bad one, for that matter. But if the purpose of this group is to help others with Python, simple courtesy seems to be common sense.
> 
> Jeff

Jeff, you are right.  Mark's behavior has been getting more aggressive, and
less like what we encourage and hope for here.  He is not representing the
ideals of the Python community.  We are mostly helpful and nice. :)

--Ned.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Apr 10 21:36:58 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:36:58 +1000
Subject: one-element tuples
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org> <851t6d3s0k.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.4.1460334906.13861.python-list@python.org>
 <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <85bn5h2af9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Fillmore <fillmore_remove at hotmail.com> writes:

> On 04/10/2016 08:31 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> > Can you describe explicitly what that ?discontinuation point? is? I'm
> > not seeing it.
>
> Here you go:
>
> >>> a = '"string1"'
> >>> b = '"string1","string2"'
> >>> c = '"string1","string2","string3"'
> >>> ea = eval(a)
> >>> eb = eval(b)
> >>> ec = eval(c)
> >>> type(ea)
> <class 'str'>   <--- HERE !!!!
> >>> type(eb)
> <class 'tuple'>
> >>> type(ec)
> <class 'tuple'>

While I wait to find out what confuses you about the above, let me ask
another question that might get closer to the issue.

Would you find the following session confusing? Why?

    >>> a = "string1"
    >>> b = "string1", "string2"
    >>> c = "string1", "string2", "string3"

    >>> type(a)
    <class 'str'>
    >>> type(b)
    <class 'tuple'>
    >>> type(c)
    <class 'tuple'>

> and mind you, I am not saying that this is wrong. I'm just saying that
> it surprised me.

If the two examples give you different responses (one surprises you, the
other does not), I would really like to know *what the surprise is*.
What specifically did you expect, that did not happen?

-- 
 \        ?I knew it was a shocking thing to say, but ? no-one has the |
  `\        right to spend their life without being offended.? ?Philip |
_o__)                                              Pullman, 2010-03-28 |
Ben Finney



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Apr 10 21:41:52 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:41:52 +1000
Subject: Parens do create a tuple
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460333911.3449208.574628345.4B46CD32@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmqXpXvDCJWPypvZodBbJ+hkf_Hizz9Cb-2-4MbLdv=-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <85inzp2c93.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmp=VDKwgKNXgED2nbYqsQ4J0OfRxA6F4HLR5_oakOGpGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <857fg43orj.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:

> Fair enough. Let's instead say "commas create tuples", which is true
> in all cases except the singleton empty tuple. Is that near enough
> that we can avoid the detail?

It's a fine thing to say, because it's simply true. Commas create
tuples.

There are some tuples that cannot be created as a literal by comma. That
does not make the statement untrue.

They are not the *only* thing that creates tuples; parens can also
create tuples. So we should avoid false statements on that score.

> I'd rather be correct on the one-element case and wrong on the empty
> than the other way around.

To say ?commas create tuples? is to say an unobjectionably true
statement about Python syntax. It remains true as one continues to learn
Python.

To say ?parens do not create tuples? is to lay a trap which needs to be
de-fused at some point. Better IMO never to lay that trap.

-- 
 \         ?It?s a great idea to come in unencumbered by dogma but you |
  `\        can?t also be unencumbered by evidence.? ?Darren Saunders, |
_o__)                                                       2015-12-02 |
Ben Finney



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Apr 10 21:45:21 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 21:45:21 -0400
Subject: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask
In-Reply-To: <neeqf8$sac$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460331024.3440141.574603049.214AD5E6@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.17.1460331027.6211.python-list@python.org>
 <neeqf8$sac$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <neevka$g0q$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/10/2016 8:17 PM, Fillmore wrote:

> apparently my 'discontinuity' is mappable to the fact that there's no such
> thing as one-element tuples in Python, and attempts to create one will
> result in a string (i.e. an object of a different kind!)...

Please work through the tutorial before posting wrong information
about the basics of Python.

 >>> t = 1,
 >>> t
(1,)

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From steve at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 10 21:50:18 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:50:18 +1000
Subject: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <570b02db$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 08:51 am, Fillmore wrote:

> at which point did the language designers decide to betray the
> "path of least surprise" principle and create a 'discontinuity' in the
> language?

It was March 1996, and I was there. I don't remember the date, I'm afraid.
Some of the core Python developers and users had got together in a trendy
bar in Los Angeles to discuss the future of the language before the 1.0
release. I don't remember the name of the bar, but you had to go down some
steps to get to it from the street (like the one in Cheers), and the
barkeeper was this amazingly entertaining black man in his 40s who kept us
in stitches with his anecdotes and stories about the various places he had
worked before.

Anyway, to get back to the question on hand, we were sitting around
discussing questions about the language. Remember, this was back in the
pre-1.0 days, and there was a *lot* still open for debate:

- case sensitive or insensitive?

- tabs or spaces or both?

- should floats be C singles or doubles?

- use '' for strings or ""?

among others.

I remember Tim Peters, the Timbot, arguing strongly that using doubles was a
waste of time, nobody would ever need that much precision for floating
point calculations, but the rest of us convinced Guido to ignore him.

I don't know who exactly it was that came up with the idea, because I was at
the bar ordering a round of drinks, but when I came back I remember Guido's
words like it was yesterday:

"It's not just enough to betray the principle of least surprise," he said,
and banged his fist on the table in emphasis, "any idiot can design a
surprising language like C. We have to do it in much more subtle way."

Congratulations to Fillmore. It's taken 20 years, but somebody has finally
rumbled to the fact that Python is a joke language! Guido made it all up to
prank people.

I don't think we used the word "troll" back then, but we spent the rest of
the afternoon deciding how we could best troll people with a language which
*seemed* consistent, with a single, coherent programming model, but was
actually a hodge-podge of competing paradigms, inconsistencies and
surprises for the unwary.

I mean, come on guys, in hindsight it should be obvious. Python is a
language that supports three inconsistent language paradigms:

- object oriented
- functional
- procedural

I thought that was too obvious and would give the game away, but Guido was
right. Programmers aren't that bright.

My own contribution to the gag was mutable default function arguments. I'm
really proud of that, because I came up with what seems like a perfectly
sensible and logical explanation for the behaviour, and a name for
it, "early binding", that makes it seem kinda technical and "computer
sciency", but we really added it just to be dicks and annoy folks.

Fillmore, you should feel very pleased with yourself. All the tens of
thousands of Python programmers, and millions of lines of code written in
the language, but nobody until now was able to see what you alone had the
intelligence and clarity of thought to spot. Well done!



-- 
Steven



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 21:51:34 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:51:34 +1000
Subject: Parens do create a tuple
In-Reply-To: <857fg43orj.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460333911.3449208.574628345.4B46CD32@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmqXpXvDCJWPypvZodBbJ+hkf_Hizz9Cb-2-4MbLdv=-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <85inzp2c93.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmp=VDKwgKNXgED2nbYqsQ4J0OfRxA6F4HLR5_oakOGpGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <857fg43orj.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqs9syGd2ozWJdG=kQVfcjHFy0dM9Ed8zWk-YgWpL-puw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>> I'd rather be correct on the one-element case and wrong on the empty
>> than the other way around.
>
> To say ?commas create tuples? is to say an unobjectionably true
> statement about Python syntax. It remains true as one continues to learn
> Python.
>
> To say ?parens do not create tuples? is to lay a trap which needs to be
> de-fused at some point. Better IMO never to lay that trap.

Fair. "Commas create tuples" is correct but incomplete; "parens do not
create tuples" is incorrect in a narrow way. Fortunately, technical
correctness lines up with the more useful case of helping people
understand the one-element case.

ChrisA


From phamp at mindspring.com  Sun Apr 10 22:14:25 2016
From: phamp at mindspring.com (pyotr filipivich)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 19:14:25 -0700
Subject: QWERTY was not designed to intentionally slow typists down (was:
 Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?])
References: <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.101.1460162658.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <570876f1$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1460216688.3801979.573748441.5F836BEB@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <65jigb1tb6hojh65op74md9veov1uu9v18@4ax.com>
 <mailman.132.1460228015.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <ubgjgb98m59h2gda4f688efb9o0pu281ab@4ax.com>
 <CALwzidnPvu6RSCHOZFopHEY8ZxqodJN7iPYb2ncXNFk4bT-WHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.4.1460295840.6211.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f12mgb15u92gi84osah6kflg51lhp75du7@4ax.com>

Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> on Sun, 10 Apr 2016 07:43:13 -0600
typed in comp.lang.python  the following:
>On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 9:09 PM, pyotr filipivich <phamp at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>         ASINTOER are the top eight English letters (not in any order, it
>> is just that "A Sin To Err" is easy to remember.
>
>What's so hard to remember about ETA OIN SHRDLU? Plus that even gives
>you the top twelve. :-)

	Depends on what you're looking for, I suppose.  In this case,
those eight get encoded differently than the other 20 characters.
--  
pyotr filipivich
The fears of one class of men are not the measure of the rights of another. 
-- George Bancroft


From dan at tombstonezero.net  Sun Apr 10 22:22:07 2016
From: dan at tombstonezero.net (Dan Sommers)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 02:22:07 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I
 still want to ask]
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <570AF0C6.7020007@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.3.1460334800.13861.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nef1of$9g3$1@dont-email.me>

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 01:33:10 +0100, MRAB wrote:

> There _is_ one exception though: (). It's the empty tuple (a 0-element
> tuple). It doesn't have a comma and the parentheses are mandatory.
> There's no other way to write it.

The other way to write it is:

    tuple()


From steve at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 10 22:32:08 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 12:32:08 +1000
Subject: Parens do create a tuple
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460333911.3449208.574628345.4B46CD32@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmqXpXvDCJWPypvZodBbJ+hkf_Hizz9Cb-2-4MbLdv=-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <85inzp2c93.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmp=VDKwgKNXgED2nbYqsQ4J0OfRxA6F4HLR5_oakOGpGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <857fg43orj.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.10.1460339107.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <570b0ca9$0$1608$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:41 am, Ben Finney wrote:

> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> Fair enough. Let's instead say "commas create tuples", which is true
>> in all cases except the singleton empty tuple. Is that near enough
>> that we can avoid the detail?
> 
> It's a fine thing to say, because it's simply true. Commas create
> tuples.

def func(arg1, arg2, arg3):
    pass

func(1, 2, 3) 

does not create a tuple (1, 2, 3) anywhere in its execution. So there are
commas that don't create a tuple. Including these:

import math, sys, time

# Python 2
print "This", "is", "not", "a", "tuple."

# Also Python 2
try:
    ...
except Exception, err:
    ...

# Any Python
del fe, fi, fo, fum



Live by pedantry, die by pedantry.

:-)


> To say ?commas create tuples? is to say an unobjectionably true
> statement about Python syntax. It remains true as one continues to learn
> Python.

Really not.


> To say ?parens do not create tuples? is to lay a trap which needs to be
> de-fused at some point. Better IMO never to lay that trap.

If one wishes to be both pedantic and correct, as well as long-winded and
verbose, one needs to say something like this:


In the statement

    mytuple = (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

it is not the parentheses or round brackets which creates the tuple, it is
the commas, so this will work equally well:

    mytuple = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5


In general, you create tuples in an expression by separating the values with
commas, not by surrounding them in parentheses. Parens act to group
expressions, so they're useful for ambiguous cases such as nested tuples:

    mytuple = 1, 2, 3, (10, 20, 30), 5

or to overrule the default precedence rules:

    lambda x, y: x+1, y+2  # a tuple of (lambda, y+2)

    lambda x, y: (x+1, y+2)  # a function that returns a tuple (x+1, y+2)


or just to make the expression look nicer. As a consequence, a single item
tuple can be created with a trailing comma, with or without parens:

    mytuple = 1,
    mytuple = (1,)


The zero-element tuple is a special case. You can't have a comma on its own,
so the zero-element tuple has its own special syntax:

    mytuple = ()



-- 
Steven



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 22:34:56 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 12:34:56 +1000
Subject: one-element tuples [Was: Most probably a stupid question, but I
 still want to ask]
In-Reply-To: <nef1of$9g3$1@dont-email.me>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <570AF0C6.7020007@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.3.1460334800.13861.python-list@python.org>
 <nef1of$9g3$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpxGWn8Met5a0hsWiJ1LcCV2qagDgMZJJFNpeVt8g1mmw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Dan Sommers <dan at tombstonezero.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 01:33:10 +0100, MRAB wrote:
>
>> There _is_ one exception though: (). It's the empty tuple (a 0-element
>> tuple). It doesn't have a comma and the parentheses are mandatory.
>> There's no other way to write it.
>
> The other way to write it is:
>
>     tuple()

There are lots of ways to construct an empty tuple, but only one
spelling for its literal.

ChrisA


From fillmore_remove at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 10 22:48:38 2016
From: fillmore_remove at hotmail.com (Fillmore)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 22:48:38 -0400
Subject: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <570b02db$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <nef3a3$15nk$2@gioia.aioe.org>


funny, but it seems to me that you are taking it personally... thank god i even apologized
in advance for what was most probably a stupid question..

On 04/10/2016 09:50 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
> Fillmore, you should feel very pleased with yourself. All the tens of
> thousands of Python programmers, and millions of lines of code written in
> the language, but nobody until now was able to see what you alone had the
> intelligence and clarity of thought to spot. Well done!
>
>
>



From random832 at fastmail.com  Sun Apr 10 22:51:35 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 22:51:35 -0400
Subject: Parens do create a tuple
In-Reply-To: <570b0ca9$0$1608$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460333911.3449208.574628345.4B46CD32@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmqXpXvDCJWPypvZodBbJ+hkf_Hizz9Cb-2-4MbLdv=-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <85inzp2c93.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmp=VDKwgKNXgED2nbYqsQ4J0OfRxA6F4HLR5_oakOGpGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <857fg43orj.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.10.1460339107.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570b0ca9$0$1608$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1460343095.1633279.574715601.355BA760@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016, at 22:32, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> def func(arg1, arg2, arg3):
>     pass
> 
> func(1, 2, 3) 
> 
> does not create a tuple (1, 2, 3) anywhere in its execution.

Well, the second argument to PyObject_Call and function_call is a tuple,
which had to come from somewhere. That may be a CPython implementation
detail, but what else could __call__'s prototype be but (self, *args,
**kwargs)?

> Live by pedantry, die by pedantry.


From steve at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 10 22:57:37 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 12:57:37 +1000
Subject: Parens do create a tuple
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460333911.3449208.574628345.4B46CD32@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmqXpXvDCJWPypvZodBbJ+hkf_Hizz9Cb-2-4MbLdv=-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <85inzp2c93.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmp=VDKwgKNXgED2nbYqsQ4J0OfRxA6F4HLR5_oakOGpGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <857fg43orj.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmqs9syGd2ozWJdG=kQVfcjHFy0dM9Ed8zWk-YgWpL-puw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.12.1460339503.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <570b12a3$0$1583$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:51 am, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au>
> wrote:
>>> I'd rather be correct on the one-element case and wrong on the empty
>>> than the other way around.
>>
>> To say ?commas create tuples? is to say an unobjectionably true
>> statement about Python syntax. It remains true as one continues to learn
>> Python.
>>
>> To say ?parens do not create tuples? is to lay a trap which needs to be
>> de-fused at some point. Better IMO never to lay that trap.
> 
> Fair. "Commas create tuples" is correct but incomplete; 

It's incorrect as well as incomplete. Not every comma is part of a tuple.

It's not even correct if you limit yourself to expressions, rather than all
Python statements. There are two commas in both the following expressions:

    (lambda a, b: a+2*b)(1, 2)

    "abc,def".split(",")


and yet no tuples are involved.

Yes, I'm being pedantic. I'm being more pedantic than Ben, and that's a
scary thing :-)


> "parens do not create tuples" is incorrect in a narrow way. 

It's only incorrect if you neglect to follow up by saying "with the
exception of the empty tuple". Which makes it incomplete rather than
incorrect. It is *certainly true* that in the expression:

    (1, 2, 3, 4)

the parens do not create the tuple, they are only used for grouping. So it
is misleading to say that '"parens do not create tuples" is incorrect'.


> Fortunately, technical 
> correctness lines up with the more useful case of helping people
> understand the one-element case.

You know, I've never come across anyone who has failed to understand the
one-element case from an explanation similar to this:

"Parentheses or round brackets don't create tuples, they are used for
grouping. It is the commas, not the brackets, that creates the tuple. The
only exception is the empty tuple, which is written as ()."

*especially* if you give an example of a one-element tuple to reinforce the
lesson.

Short, snappy, memorable statements like "parens don't create tuples" don't
have to be pedantically correct in all the technical details to be useful.
It is allowed to follow them with a more detailed explanation, including
any exceptions to the rule.



-- 
Steven



From fillmore_remove at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 10 22:57:39 2016
From: fillmore_remove at hotmail.com (Fillmore)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 22:57:39 -0400
Subject: one-element tuples
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org> <851t6d3s0k.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.4.1460334906.13861.python-list@python.org>
 <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org> <85bn5h2af9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.9.1460338627.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nef3r1$16b6$1@gioia.aioe.org>

On 04/10/2016 09:36 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> If the two examples give you different responses (one surprises you, the
> other does not), I would really like to know*what the surprise is*.
> What specifically did you expect, that did not happen?

now that I get the role of commas it's not surprising anymore...

thanks



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 23:02:21 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 13:02:21 +1000
Subject: Parens do create a tuple
In-Reply-To: <1460343095.1633279.574715601.355BA760@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460333911.3449208.574628345.4B46CD32@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmqXpXvDCJWPypvZodBbJ+hkf_Hizz9Cb-2-4MbLdv=-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <85inzp2c93.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmp=VDKwgKNXgED2nbYqsQ4J0OfRxA6F4HLR5_oakOGpGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <857fg43orj.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.10.1460339107.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570b0ca9$0$1608$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1460343095.1633279.574715601.355BA760@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrLU6GM1zTyc9NYmtd0SqxqvB9Ut9EWZtA2fLkqF7xC_w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2016, at 22:32, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> def func(arg1, arg2, arg3):
>>     pass
>>
>> func(1, 2, 3)
>>
>> does not create a tuple (1, 2, 3) anywhere in its execution.
>
> Well, the second argument to PyObject_Call and function_call is a tuple,
> which had to come from somewhere. That may be a CPython implementation
> detail, but what else could __call__'s prototype be but (self, *args,
> **kwargs)?

On the arrivals side, sure, *args. But on the departures side, you can
use any sequence, and there's the whole thing of positional and
keyword arguments to look at. So ultimately, all you can possibly be
seeing is an implementation detail - there's no requirement that a
tuple ever be built.

ChrisA


From fillmore_remove at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 10 23:19:59 2016
From: fillmore_remove at hotmail.com (Fillmore)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 23:19:59 -0400
Subject: one-element tuples
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org> <851t6d3s0k.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.4.1460334906.13861.python-list@python.org>
 <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604101756410.9117@qnttre.jbaqresebt.arg>
 <mailman.7.1460336894.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nef550$180h$1@gioia.aioe.org>


Thank you for trying to help, Martin. So:

On 04/10/2016 09:08 PM, Martin A. Brown wrote:
> #1: I would not choose eval() except when there is no other
>      solution.  If you don't need eval(), it may save you some
>      headache in the future, as well, to find an alternate way.
>      So, can we help you choose something other than eval()?
>      What are you trying to do with that usage?

so, I do not quite control the format of the file I am trying to parse.

it has the format:

"str1","str2",....,"strN" => more stuff
   :

in some cases there is just one "str" which is what created me problem.
The first "str1" has special meaning and, at times, it can be alone.

The way I handle this is:

     parts = line.strip().split(" => ")
     tokens = eval(parts[0])

     if type(tokens) == str:   #Handle case that there's only one token
         columns.add(tokens)
         rowTokenString = "__Empty__"
         rows.add(rowTokenString)
         value = parts[1][:2]
         addCell(table, rowTokenString, tokens, value)
     else:
         columns.add(tokens[0])
         rowTokenString = '"'+'","'.join(tokens[1:]) + '"'
         rows.add(rowTokenString)
         value = parts[1][:2]
         addCell(table, rowTokenString, tokens[0],value)

which admittedly is not very elegant. If you have suggestions on how to avoid the use
of eval() and still achieve the same, I would be delighted to hear them




From schumakerj59 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 23:31:24 2016
From: schumakerj59 at gmail.com (Jeff Schumaker)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 20:31:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unacceptable behavior
In-Reply-To: <cbc24387-b6e2-4efd-b9e3-e369a656b67b@googlegroups.com>
References: <57060359.1050002@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.2.1460011819.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <0e6fb432-7ce0-4f94-89f7-45de6d0b0259@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmq_Zt==2Lj99OrmVeKXVDg3CjJO+W6Uc6Ak4pyUJpFRSA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.5.1460297003.6211.python-list@python.org>
 <cbc24387-b6e2-4efd-b9e3-e369a656b67b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b77b9a71-1199-422a-a063-5224197b5a26@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 9:33:47 PM UTC-4, Jeff Schumaker wrote:
> On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 10:03:37 AM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 11:54 PM, Jeff Schumaker wrote
> 
> > > As a new member of this group, I am not sure on how to report unacceptable behavior. If this is not the correct way, I apologize.
> > >
> > > Please check the following thread:
> > >
> > > Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid
> > >
> > > I believe there was some unnecessary rudeness on the part of one of the respondants to the original post
> > 
> > My guess is you're talking about Mark Lawrence, and yes, I agree; he's
> > been fairly vitriolic.
> > 
> > The standard way to report abusive behaviour on mailing lists is to
> > contact the owner. 
> > 
> > ChrisA
> 
> No, this was a different poster. And, thanks, Chris, for the email address. I will give it a shot.
> 
> Jeff

I reread the thread. It was Mark. I mixed him up with the Thomas that was the person mentioned at the beginning of this thread. 

Jeff


From nimbiotics at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 23:32:37 2016
From: nimbiotics at gmail.com (Mario R. Osorio)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 20:32:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Moderation and Usenet
In-Reply-To: <mailman.8.1460307874.6211.python-list@python.org>
References: <570A87D4.5010700@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.8.1460307874.6211.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <23bd7dda-caef-41b4-9724-bc42836d4c94@googlegroups.com>

hmmm...He made an extremely kind comment a couple of days ago. It called my attention because is the first one ever (coming from) ... Now I'm thinking he might have just been sarcastic.

And BTW I myself have given a couple of sour responses every now and then. I guess we all have our bad days or moments. It's just that Mark's are much too often.


From nimbiotics at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 23:32:48 2016
From: nimbiotics at gmail.com (Mario R. Osorio)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 20:32:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Moderation and Usenet
In-Reply-To: <mailman.10.1460311247.6211.python-list@python.org>
References: <570A87D4.5010700@stoneleaf.us> <nee4c7$7em$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.10.1460311247.6211.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <efd0cda4-10f6-420f-99dd-483d934e5093@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 2:01:00 PM UTC-4, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 4/10/2016 1:05 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> 
> > If you see offensive posts from him  on the Usenet side please do not
> > respond.
> 
> Just a reminder for those who, like me, prefer a newsgroup interface for 
> python-list: gmane.comp.python.general at news.gmane.org mirrors the 
> moderated output of python-list.  (Gmane does the same for 1000s of 
> tecnhical lists.)  I believe that posts submitted from gmane are sent to 
> the list *first*, and never appear on the gmane mirror until they appear 
> on the list.  Thus one will not see and cannot accidentally respond to a 
> post that did not appear on the list.  One gets the benefits of list 
> moderation without a flooded mailbox.
> 
> -- 
> Terry Jan Reedy


From steve at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 10 23:54:39 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 13:54:39 +1000
Subject: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <570b02db$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nef3a3$15nk$2@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <570b2000$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 12:48 pm, Fillmore wrote:

> 
> funny, but it seems to me that you are taking it personally... thank god i
> even apologized in advance for what was most probably a stupid question..

I hope you did get a laugh out of it, because it wasn't meant to be nasty.
But it was meant to get you to think about statements about betraying
principles and other inflammatory remarks.


-- 
Steven



From fillmore_remove at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 11 00:03:06 2016
From: fillmore_remove at hotmail.com (Fillmore)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 00:03:06 -0400
Subject: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <570b02db$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nef3a3$15nk$2@gioia.aioe.org>
 <570b2000$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <nef7lq$1ati$1@gioia.aioe.org>

On 04/10/2016 11:54 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 12:48 pm, Fillmore wrote:
>
>>
>> funny, but it seems to me that you are taking it personally... thank god i
>> even apologized in advance for what was most probably a stupid question..
>
> I hope you did get a laugh out of it, because it wasn't meant to be nasty.
> But it was meant to get you to think about statements about betraying
> principles and other inflammatory remarks.

I did have a laugh.

I don't think I talked about betraying principles. I just mentioned that in my newbie
mind, I experienced what I perceived as a discontinuity. My limited understanding of
what builds tuples and the (almost always to be avoided) use of eval() were the origin
of my perplexities.

I'll make sure I approach the temple of pythonistas bare-footed and with greater humility next time






From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Apr 11 00:08:03 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 14:08:03 +1000
Subject: Parens do create a tuple
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460333911.3449208.574628345.4B46CD32@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmqXpXvDCJWPypvZodBbJ+hkf_Hizz9Cb-2-4MbLdv=-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <85inzp2c93.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmp=VDKwgKNXgED2nbYqsQ4J0OfRxA6F4HLR5_oakOGpGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <857fg43orj.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.10.1460339107.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570b0ca9$0$1608$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <851t6c3hzw.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> writes:

> On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:41 am, Ben Finney wrote:
>
> > Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
> > 
> >> Fair enough. Let's instead say "commas create tuples", which is true
> >> in all cases except the singleton empty tuple. Is that near enough
> >> that we can avoid the detail?
> > 
> > It's a fine thing to say, because it's simply true. Commas create
> > tuples.
>
> [?] there are commas that don't create a tuple.

Of course. That doesn't make the above statement false.

Commas create tuples. Also, commas do other things.

-- 
 \       ?Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who |
  `\   speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.? ?Ambrose |
_o__)                           Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_, 1906 |
Ben Finney



From steve at pearwood.info  Mon Apr 11 00:08:14 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 14:08:14 +1000
Subject: Parens do create a tuple
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460333911.3449208.574628345.4B46CD32@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmqXpXvDCJWPypvZodBbJ+hkf_Hizz9Cb-2-4MbLdv=-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <85inzp2c93.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmp=VDKwgKNXgED2nbYqsQ4J0OfRxA6F4HLR5_oakOGpGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <857fg43orj.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.10.1460339107.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570b0ca9$0$1608$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1460343095.1633279.574715601.355BA760@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.14.1460343098.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <570b2330$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 12:51 pm, Random832 wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 10, 2016, at 22:32, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> def func(arg1, arg2, arg3):
>>     pass
>> 
>> func(1, 2, 3)
>> 
>> does not create a tuple (1, 2, 3) anywhere in its execution.
> 
> Well, the second argument to PyObject_Call and function_call is a tuple,
> which had to come from somewhere.

It didn't come from any Python language feature. It is a purely internal
implementation detail.

Let me put it this way: a Python expression like 3/x-1 may be parsed into a
abstract syntax tree which might look something like this:

(OPERATOR, -, 
  (OPERATOR, /, 
    (CONSTANT, 3, None, None), 
    (NAME, 'x', None, None)), 
  (CONSTANT, 1, None, None)
  )


Should we say that the / and - operators therefore create tuples? I don't
think so.



-- 
Steven



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Apr 11 00:10:24 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 14:10:24 +1000
Subject: one-element tuples
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org> <851t6d3s0k.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.4.1460334906.13861.python-list@python.org>
 <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org> <85bn5h2af9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.9.1460338627.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <nef3r1$16b6$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <85wpo423bj.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Fillmore <fillmore_remove at hotmail.com> writes:

> On 04/10/2016 09:36 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> > If the two examples give you different responses (one surprises you, the
> > other does not), I would really like to know*what the surprise is*.
> > What specifically did you expect, that did not happen?
>
> now that I get the role of commas it's not surprising anymore...

So, will we never get your statement of what surprised you between those
examples?

Clearly there is something of interest here. I'd like to know what the
facts of the matter were; ?beginner's mind? is a precious resource, not
to be squandered.

-- 
 \       ?My business is to teach my aspirations to conform themselves |
  `\              to fact, not to try and make facts harmonise with my |
_o__)                   aspirations.? ?Thomas Henry Huxley, 1860-09-23 |
Ben Finney



From fillmore_remove at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 11 00:43:52 2016
From: fillmore_remove at hotmail.com (Fillmore)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 00:43:52 -0400
Subject: one-element tuples
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org> <851t6d3s0k.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.4.1460334906.13861.python-list@python.org>
 <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org> <85bn5h2af9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.9.1460338627.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <nef3r1$16b6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <85wpo423bj.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.17.1460348107.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nefa29$1eep$1@gioia.aioe.org>

On 04/11/2016 12:10 AM, Ben Finney wrote:
>
> So, will we never get your statement of what surprised you between those
> examples?
>
> Clearly there is something of interest here. I'd like to know what the
> facts of the matter were; ?beginner's mind? is a precious resource, not
> to be squandered.
>

I thought I had made the point clear with the REPL session below. I had (what seemed
to me like) a list of strings getting turned into a tuple. I was surprised that
a single string wasn't turned into a single-element tuple.
Now that I know that commas create tuples, but lack of commas don't, I'm not surprised anymore.

 >>> a = '"string1"'
 >>> b = '"string1","string2"'
 >>> c = '"string1","string2","string3"'
 >>> ea = eval(a)
 >>> eb = eval(b)
 >>> ec = eval(c)
 >>> type(ea)
<class 'str'>
 >>> type(eb)
<class 'tuple'>
 >>> type(ec)
<class 'tuple'>



From me+python at ixokai.io  Mon Apr 11 00:46:58 2016
From: me+python at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 21:46:58 -0700
Subject: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask
In-Reply-To: <nef7lq$1ati$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <570b02db$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nef3a3$15nk$2@gioia.aioe.org>
 <570b2000$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nef7lq$1ati$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <1460350018.3507765.574780001.5531F1C0@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016, at 09:03 PM, Fillmore wrote:
> and the (almost always to be avoided) use of eval()

FWIW, there's ast.literal_eval which is safe and there's no reason to
avoid it. You'll still have to deal with the fact that a single string
on a line will return a string while multiples will return a tuple, but
how you're doing that (checking the type of the result) is fine.

--Stephen
m e @ i x o k a i . i o


From me+python at ixokai.io  Mon Apr 11 00:54:17 2016
From: me+python at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 21:54:17 -0700
Subject: one-element tuples
In-Reply-To: <nefa29$1eep$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org> <851t6d3s0k.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.4.1460334906.13861.python-list@python.org>
 <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org> <85bn5h2af9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.9.1460338627.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <nef3r1$16b6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <85wpo423bj.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.17.1460348107.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <nefa29$1eep$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <1460350457.3509564.574782697.0EB12E87@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016, at 09:43 PM, Fillmore wrote:
> I thought I had made the point clear with the REPL session below. 

Considering how many people expressed repeatedly they didn't know what
was surprising, it wasn't clear at all. 

In general you need to explain these things with your words: code is
good, show code, don't get me wrong, but you need to express your
expectations and how the difference between what happened and what you
expected surprised you.

Both parts, the code and the expression of your thoughts, are really
important to getting help around here :) 

---
Stephen Hansen
  m e @ i x o k a i . i o


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 01:07:34 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 22:07:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: one-element tuples
In-Reply-To: <mailman.17.1460348107.15650.python-list@python.org>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org> <851t6d3s0k.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.4.1460334906.13861.python-list@python.org>
 <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org> <85bn5h2af9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.9.1460338627.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <nef3r1$16b6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <85wpo423bj.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.17.1460348107.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6ae035c4-97e6-45c6-ac1e-44091592201c@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 11, 2016 at 9:45:20 AM UTC+5:30, Ben Finney wrote:
> Clearly there is something of interest here. I'd like to know what the
> facts of the matter were; "beginner's mind" is a precious resource, not
> to be squandered.

That's one sensible statement in a more than usually messed up thread


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Mon Apr 11 01:16:53 2016
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 06:16:53 +0100
Subject: Moderation and Usenet
In-Reply-To: <23bd7dda-caef-41b4-9724-bc42836d4c94@googlegroups.com>
References: <570A87D4.5010700@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.8.1460307874.6211.python-list@python.org>
 <23bd7dda-caef-41b4-9724-bc42836d4c94@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <570B3345.6090102@timgolden.me.uk>

On 11/04/2016 04:32, Mario R. Osorio wrote:
> hmmm...He made an extremely kind comment a couple of days ago. It
> called my attention because is the first one ever (coming from) ...
> Now I'm thinking he might have just been sarcastic.

Give him the benefit of the doubt.

> And BTW I myself have given a couple of sour responses every now and
> then. I guess we all have our bad days or moments. It's just that
> Mark's are much too often.
>

I'm not going to discuss any individual's behaviour here. But to 
reiterate what I said either earlier in this thread or elsewhere: we're 
not interested in jumping down someone's throat because they lost their 
cool for a moment. Or because they once said something in a way which 
someone else considered too forceful.

We're more concerned with the overall effect a series of postings has on 
other list/newsgroup members. If the list/newsgroup becomes an 
unpleasant or uncomfortable place because one person is aggressive or 
rude often enough, then we need to step in.

Of course, other members of the list/community are free to do so, as 
they sometimes do, and point out to a poster where something was 
unnecessarily blunt or even outright offensive. Thus giving that person 
the opportunity to retract or apologise if they wish.

TJG


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 01:18:08 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 22:18:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask
In-Reply-To: <mailman.18.1460350021.15650.python-list@python.org>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <570b02db$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nef3a3$15nk$2@gioia.aioe.org>
 <570b2000$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nef7lq$1ati$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460350018.3507765.574780001.5531F1C0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.18.1460350021.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <45c1ee67-16c5-45b3-bf3c-f33efb42d3c3@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 11, 2016 at 10:17:13 AM UTC+5:30, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2016, at 09:03 PM, Fillmore wrote:
> > and the (almost always to be avoided) use of eval()
> 
> FWIW, there's ast.literal_eval which is safe and there's no reason to
> avoid it.

Its error reporting is clunky:

>>> from ast import literal_eval as le
>>> le("(1)")
1
>>> le("(1,)")
(1,)
>>> le("1")
1
>>> le("{1:x}")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/ast.py", line 80, in literal_eval
    return _convert(node_or_string)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/ast.py", line 63, in _convert
    in zip(node.keys, node.values))
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/ast.py", line 62, in <genexpr>
    return dict((_convert(k), _convert(v)) for k, v
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/ast.py", line 79, in _convert
    raise ValueError('malformed string')
ValueError: malformed string


> You'll still have to deal with the fact that a single string
> on a line will return a string while multiples will return a tuple, but
> how you're doing that (checking the type of the result) is fine.

Yes...
0 and 1 length tuples are special cases even if we argue till we are blue in 
the face

To Fillmore:

Go via lists and the special cases can be obviated:
>>> def br(s): return "[" + s + "]"
>>> s0=""
>>> s1="1"
>>> s2="1,2"
>>> le(br(s0))
[]
>>> le(br(s1))
[1]
>>> le(br(s2))
[1,2]

Then tuplify (if you so wish)
>>> tuple(le(br(s0)))
()
>>> tuple(le(br(s1)))
(1,)
>>> tuple(le(br(s2)))
(1, 2)


From random832 at fastmail.com  Mon Apr 11 01:27:59 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 01:27:59 -0400
Subject: Parens do create a tuple
In-Reply-To: <570b2330$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460333911.3449208.574628345.4B46CD32@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmqXpXvDCJWPypvZodBbJ+hkf_Hizz9Cb-2-4MbLdv=-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <85inzp2c93.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmp=VDKwgKNXgED2nbYqsQ4J0OfRxA6F4HLR5_oakOGpGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <857fg43orj.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.10.1460339107.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570b0ca9$0$1608$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1460343095.1633279.574715601.355BA760@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.14.1460343098.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570b2330$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1460352479.2404917.574799201.61DF3CED@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016, at 00:08, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Should we say that the / and - operators therefore create tuples? I don't
> think so.

But I am talking about the tuple that is passed to FunctionType.__call__
at runtime, not a tuple created within some parser stage.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Apr 11 01:40:38 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 15:40:38 +1000
Subject: one-element tuples
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org> <851t6d3s0k.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.4.1460334906.13861.python-list@python.org>
 <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org> <85bn5h2af9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.9.1460338627.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <nef3r1$16b6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <85wpo423bj.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.17.1460348107.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <nefa29$1eep$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <85r3ec1z55.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Fillmore <fillmore_remove at hotmail.com> writes:

> I thought I had made the point clear with the REPL session below. I
> had (what seemed to me like) a list of strings getting turned into a
> tuple. I was surprised that a single string wasn't turned into a
> single-element tuple.

Sure. What about the corresponding one from my example:

    >>> a = "string1"
    >>> b = "string1", "string2"
    >>> c = "string1", "string2", "string3"

    >>> type(a)
    <class 'str'>
    >>> type(b)
    <class 'tuple'>
    >>> type(c)
    <class 'tuple'>

Isn't that just as surprising as the same expressions evaluated with
?eval??

If not, that's what is confusing me. I can't see how one would be
expected, but the other would be surprising.

-- 
 \          ?It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one |
  `\   trifling exception, is composed of others.? ?John Andrew Holmes |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From marko at pacujo.net  Mon Apr 11 01:41:56 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 08:41:56 +0300
Subject: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460331024.3440141.574603049.214AD5E6@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.17.1460331027.6211.python-list@python.org>
 <neeqf8$sac$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neevka$g0q$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.11.1460339153.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87d1pwbt23.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu>:

> On 4/10/2016 8:17 PM, Fillmore wrote:
>
>> apparently my 'discontinuity' is mappable to the fact that there's no
>> such thing as one-element tuples in Python, and attempts to create
>> one will result in a string (i.e. an object of a different kind!)...
>
> Please work through the tutorial before posting wrong information
> about the basics of Python.
>
>>>> t = 1,
>>>> t
> (1,)

However, in some languages, one-dimensional vectors/tuples and scalars
are treated as equivalent (at least APL and Scheme).


Marko


From me+python at ixokai.io  Mon Apr 11 01:42:23 2016
From: me+python at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 22:42:23 -0700
Subject: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask
In-Reply-To: <45c1ee67-16c5-45b3-bf3c-f33efb42d3c3@googlegroups.com>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <570b02db$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nef3a3$15nk$2@gioia.aioe.org>
 <570b2000$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nef7lq$1ati$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460350018.3507765.574780001.5531F1C0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.18.1460350021.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <45c1ee67-16c5-45b3-bf3c-f33efb42d3c3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1460353343.3517647.574804705.5CF46A82@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016, at 10:18 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Monday, April 11, 2016 at 10:17:13 AM UTC+5:30, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> > On Sun, Apr 10, 2016, at 09:03 PM, Fillmore wrote:
> > > and the (almost always to be avoided) use of eval()
> > 
> > FWIW, there's ast.literal_eval which is safe and there's no reason to
> > avoid it.
> 
> Its error reporting is clunky:
> 
> >>> from ast import literal_eval as le
> >>> le("(1)")
> 1
> >>> le("(1,)")
> (1,)
> >>> le("1")
> 1
> >>> le("{1:x}")
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/ast.py", line 80, in literal_eval
>     return _convert(node_or_string)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/ast.py", line 63, in _convert
>     in zip(node.keys, node.values))
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/ast.py", line 62, in <genexpr>
>     return dict((_convert(k), _convert(v)) for k, v
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/ast.py", line 79, in _convert
>     raise ValueError('malformed string')
> ValueError: malformed string

So? Worst case scenario, someone puts invalid data into the file and it
throws an exception. Could it be more specific? Maybe, but I don't see
why it needs to be. If your input isn't reliably formatted, catch
ValueError and log it and fix (either what wrote it or change how you
read it).

--S


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Mon Apr 11 02:57:29 2016
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:57:29 +0300
Subject: one-element tuples
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org> <851t6d3s0k.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.4.1460334906.13861.python-list@python.org>
 <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604101756410.9117@qnttre.jbaqresebt.arg>
 <mailman.7.1460336894.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <nef550$180h$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <lf5h9f81vl2.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Fillmore writes:

> so, I do not quite control the format of the file I am trying to
> parse.
>
> it has the format:
>
> "str1","str2",....,"strN" => more stuff
>   :
>
> in some cases there is just one "str" which is what created me
> problem.  The first "str1" has special meaning and, at times, it can
> be alone.
>
> The way I handle this is:
>
>     parts = line.strip().split(" => ")
>     tokens = eval(parts[0])
>
>     if type(tokens) == str:   #Handle case that there's only one token

[- -]

>     else:

[- -]

> which admittedly is not very elegant. If you have suggestions on how
> to avoid the use of eval() and still achieve the same, I would be
> delighted to hear them

It depends on what a "strK" can be. You already trust that it cannot be
"A => B", but can it be "A, B"? Can it be '"Literally" this'? Or "\"".
That is, can the strings contain commas or quote characters?

If not, some variant of this may be preferable:

        [ item.strip('"') for item in parts[0].split(',') ]

Or something like this:

        re.findall('[^",]+', parts[0])

Both are brittle if the format allows the crucial characters to occur
(or not occur) in different ways. The regex way may be flexible enough
to deal with the details, but it would be more complicated than the
above example.

One thing would be easy to do either way: _check_ the line for no
surprises, and _then_ proceed to split, or raise an alert, or deal with
each detected special case specially.

If the format allows commas or doublequotes inside the strings, the
quotation rules may be such that you might be able to abuse the CSV
reader to interpret them. It depends much on the details, and is not
different from the way you are currently relying on the first part of
the line following Python's expression syntax.

next(csv.reader(io.StringIO('"fo,o",\'"bar"\'')))
# => ['fo,o', '\'"bar"\'']


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 02:57:54 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 23:57:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask
In-Reply-To: <mailman.23.1460353347.15650.python-list@python.org>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <570b02db$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nef3a3$15nk$2@gioia.aioe.org>
 <570b2000$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nef7lq$1ati$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460350018.3507765.574780001.5531F1C0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.18.1460350021.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <45c1ee67-16c5-45b3-bf3c-f33efb42d3c3@googlegroups.com>
 <1460353343.3517647.574804705.5CF46A82@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.23.1460353347.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ced2b390-f14d-408c-93d3-9d92b75b048e@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 11, 2016 at 11:12:39 AM UTC+5:30, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2016, at 10:18 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > On Monday, April 11, 2016 at 10:17:13 AM UTC+5:30, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> > > On Sun, Apr 10, 2016, at 09:03 PM, Fillmore wrote:
> > > > and the (almost always to be avoided) use of eval()
> > > 
> > > FWIW, there's ast.literal_eval which is safe and there's no reason to
> > > avoid it.
> > 
> > Its error reporting is clunky:
> > 
> > >>> from ast import literal_eval as le
> > >>> le("(1)")
> > 1
> > >>> le("(1,)")
> > (1,)
> > >>> le("1")
> > 1
> > >>> le("{1:x}")
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> >   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/ast.py", line 80, in literal_eval
> >     return _convert(node_or_string)
> >   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/ast.py", line 63, in _convert
> >     in zip(node.keys, node.values))
> >   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/ast.py", line 62, in <genexpr>
> >     return dict((_convert(k), _convert(v)) for k, v
> >   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/ast.py", line 79, in _convert
> >     raise ValueError('malformed string')
> > ValueError: malformed string
> 
> So? Worst case scenario, someone puts invalid data into the file and it
> throws an exception. Could it be more specific? Maybe, but I don't see
> why it needs to be. If your input isn't reliably formatted, catch
> ValueError and log it and fix (either what wrote it or change how you
> read it).

Sorry... Didnt mean "dont use!"
Just "Heres a flipside to consider"
Also that the OP's question is not a classic "Avoid eval like the plague"
but "Many nooks and crannies in the syntax" issue


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Apr 11 03:50:38 2016
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 17:50:38 +1000
Subject: Most probably a stupid question, but I still want to ask
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <570b02db$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nef3a3$15nk$2@gioia.aioe.org>
 <570b2000$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nef7lq$1ati$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <570b5751$0$1589$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Monday 11 April 2016 14:03, Fillmore wrote:

> I'll make sure I approach the temple of pythonistas bare-footed and with
> greater humility next time

Don't forget to rip your clothes into rags and heap ashes on your head too.


-- 
Steve



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Apr 11 04:01:29 2016
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 18:01:29 +1000
Subject: Parens do create a tuple
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460333911.3449208.574628345.4B46CD32@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmqXpXvDCJWPypvZodBbJ+hkf_Hizz9Cb-2-4MbLdv=-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <85inzp2c93.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmp=VDKwgKNXgED2nbYqsQ4J0OfRxA6F4HLR5_oakOGpGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <857fg43orj.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.10.1460339107.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570b0ca9$0$1608$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1460343095.1633279.574715601.355BA760@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.14.1460343098.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570b2330$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1460352479.2404917.574799201.61DF3CED@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.21.1460352482.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <570b59db$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Monday 11 April 2016 15:27, Random832 wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 11, 2016, at 00:08, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> Should we say that the / and - operators therefore create tuples? I don't
>> think so.
> 
> But I am talking about the tuple that is passed to FunctionType.__call__
> at runtime, not a tuple created within some parser stage.


What tuple that is passed to FunctionType.__call__?

Where is the tuple in these examples?


py> from types import FunctionType
py> FunctionType.__call__(lambda x: x+1, 23)
24
py> FunctionType.__call__(lambda x, y: str(x)+str(y), 23, 42)
'2342'

I don't see any evidence of a tuple being involved anywhere visible from 
Python code. How do you know that there's a tuple involved? (That's not a 
rhetorical question, I am genuinely curious.)

In you want to tell me that, deep inside the CPython implementation, 
function calls involve an invisible and inaccessible tuple of arguments, 
then I'll say "That's interesting, but not really relevant." There could be, 
and probably are, all sorts of places in Python's implementation where 
tuples are used internally. But that's not a language feature, its an 
implementation detail.



-- 
Steve



From smith at a-team.it  Mon Apr 11 04:22:24 2016
From: smith at a-team.it (Smith)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:22:24 +0200
Subject: Python,ping,csv
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1460259273.424.python-list@python.org>
References: <o1JNy.43731$pt.31548@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
 <CANy1k1h392HiXq-onCAFj1zJkK0Z31AXeR6fEtnf7fZ-5fHkaQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.0.1460259273.424.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <19JOy.43875$pt.16946@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

Il 10/04/2016 05:29, Jason Friedman ha scritto:
>> for ping in range(1,254):
>>      address = "10.24.59." + str(ping)
>>      res = subprocess.call(['ping', '-c', '3', address])
>>      if res == 0:
>>          print ("ping to", address, "OK")
>>      elif res == 2:
>>          print ("no response from", address)
>>      else:
>>          print ("ping to", address, "failed!")
>
> Note that with Python 3.3+ you can simplify slightly:
>
> from ipaddress import IPv4Network
> for address in IPv4Network('10.24.59.0/24').hosts():
>      res = subprocess.call(['ping', '-c', '3', address])
>      ...
>
Thanks a lot ;-)


From hemla21 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 05:17:47 2016
From: hemla21 at gmail.com (Heli)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 02:17:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: numpy arrays
In-Reply-To: <mailman.38.1460040531.2253.python-list@python.org>
References: <3774dc9b-f9d3-462b-bbe4-41b8b2244db7@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.43.1458729342.2244.python-list@python.org>
 <pan.2016.03.23.13.45.27.770000@nowhere.invalid>
 <02464a1b-401f-4830-bf00-c4df4e95fee4@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxR6zLi0rrhLUdiOkQEphpPADHQs9VFW3Xsb9ZB3Rs+5tw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.23.1460032475.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <732a5f57-af25-47ed-aca3-af0705b62076@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxSMmwxxiq+9qhrTMbLUinrD3bvygi_BnsMp=fFwWANeMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.38.1460040531.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b46f85e-0eff-4524-bc0e-858ecd13ffe9@googlegroups.com>

Thanks Oscar, 

In my case this did the trick. 
sortedVal=np.array(val[ind]).reshape((xcoord.size,ycoord.size,zcoord.size))



From smith at a-team.it  Mon Apr 11 05:24:59 2016
From: smith at a-team.it (Smith)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:24:59 +0200
Subject: Python,ping,csv
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1460259273.424.python-list@python.org>
References: <o1JNy.43731$pt.31548@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
 <CANy1k1h392HiXq-onCAFj1zJkK0Z31AXeR6fEtnf7fZ-5fHkaQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.0.1460259273.424.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <L3KOy.43878$pt.32317@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

Il 10/04/2016 05:29, Jason Friedman ha scritto:
>> for ping in range(1,254):
>>      address = "10.24.59." + str(ping)
>>      res = subprocess.call(['ping', '-c', '3', address])
>>      if res == 0:
>>          print ("ping to", address, "OK")
>>      elif res == 2:
>>          print ("no response from", address)
>>      else:
>>          print ("ping to", address, "failed!")
>
> Note that with Python 3.3+ you can simplify slightly:
>
> from ipaddress import IPv4Network
> for address in IPv4Network('10.24.59.0/24').hosts():
>      res = subprocess.call(['ping', '-c', '3', address])
>      ...
>


I added a line.
I would need to put the output into a csv file which contained the 
results of the hosts up and down.
Can you help me?


import subprocess
from ipaddress import IPv4Network
for address in IPv4Network('10.24.59.0/24').hosts():
	a = str(address)
	res = subprocess.call(['ping', '-c', '3', address])





From hemla21 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 05:32:45 2016
From: hemla21 at gmail.com (Heli)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 02:32:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: numpy arrays
In-Reply-To: <mailman.38.1460040531.2253.python-list@python.org>
References: <3774dc9b-f9d3-462b-bbe4-41b8b2244db7@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.43.1458729342.2244.python-list@python.org>
 <pan.2016.03.23.13.45.27.770000@nowhere.invalid>
 <02464a1b-401f-4830-bf00-c4df4e95fee4@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxR6zLi0rrhLUdiOkQEphpPADHQs9VFW3Xsb9ZB3Rs+5tw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.23.1460032475.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <732a5f57-af25-47ed-aca3-af0705b62076@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxSMmwxxiq+9qhrTMbLUinrD3bvygi_BnsMp=fFwWANeMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.38.1460040531.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9ea8883f-82ef-4b4c-ae32-0868880a1412@googlegroups.com>

As you said, this did the trick. 
sortedVal=np.array(val[ind]).reshape((xcoord.size,ycoord.size,zcoord.size)) 

Only val[ind] instead of val[ind,:] as val is 1D. 

Thanks Oscar, 




From bc at freeuk.com  Mon Apr 11 07:15:49 2016
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 12:15:49 +0100
Subject: one-element tuples
In-Reply-To: <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org> <851t6d3s0k.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.4.1460334906.13861.python-list@python.org>
 <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <neg0ra$bvi$1@dont-email.me>

On 11/04/2016 01:48, Fillmore wrote:
> On 04/10/2016 08:31 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
>> Can you describe explicitly what that ?discontinuation point? is? I'm
>> not seeing it.
>
> Here you go:
>
>  >>> a = '"string1"'
>  >>> b = '"string1","string2"'
>  >>> c = '"string1","string2","string3"'
>  >>> ea = eval(a)
>  >>> eb = eval(b)
>  >>> ec = eval(c)
>  >>> type(ea)
> <class 'str'>   <--- HERE !!!!
>  >>> type(eb)
> <class 'tuple'>
>  >>> type(ec)
> <class 'tuple'>
>
> I can tell you that it exists because it bit me in the butt today...
>
> and mind you, I am not saying that this is wrong. I'm just saying that
> it surprised me.

I think this shows more clearly what you mean:

a = 10             # int
b = 10,            # tuple
c = 10,20          # tuple
d = 10,20,30       # tuple

The difference between a and b is that trailing comma. A bit of a 
kludge, but it's enough to distinguish between a single value (x), and a 
one-element tuple (x,).

In this case, you might call it a discontinuity in the syntax as, when 
you go from d to c, you remove ",30", including the comma, but when 
going from c to b, you remove only "20".

But this can be fixed if tuples are written like this:

a = 10             # int
b = 10,            # tuple
c = 10,20,         # tuple
d = 10,20,30,      # tuple

Now, you remove "30," then "20,". No exception.

Of course this doesn't help you parsing typical input which uses commas 
as separators, not terminators!


-- 
Bartc







From marko at pacujo.net  Mon Apr 11 08:12:26 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 15:12:26 +0300
Subject: one-element tuples
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org> <851t6d3s0k.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.4.1460334906.13861.python-list@python.org>
 <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neg0ra$bvi$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <87vb3ony39.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

BartC <bc at freeuk.com>:

> Of course this doesn't help you parsing typical input which uses
> commas as separators, not terminators!

That's a red herring. You mustn't parse with eval(). You shouldn't event
think of parsing non-Python data with eval(). Why should Python's syntax
resemble a CSV file?

Try compiling the data file with a C compiler or bash.

The real answer is to do:

    "a,b,c".split(",")
    ==> ['a', 'b', 'c']

Now, tuples would be trivial:

    tuple("a,b,c".split(","))
    ==> ('a', 'b', 'c')

but a tuple is probably not what you'd want here since the number of
data elements in the OP's question is not constant.


Marko


From ikorot01 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 09:00:19 2016
From: ikorot01 at gmail.com (Igor Korot)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:00:19 -0400
Subject: installation problem
In-Reply-To: <CAD8wiOvrzw0b_4EvGZOqU+k5mGZ=3UpMfX9fPamKXdQGGcUNCg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD8wiOvrzw0b_4EvGZOqU+k5mGZ=3UpMfX9fPamKXdQGGcUNCg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FnnTzCHP6rxMeYNsVmCRo99bK1zDWXyt4+3zFvQOMoN_d2TA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, Palak,

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 2:30 AM, palak pandey <palakpandey2922 at gmail.com> wrote:
> i m not able to install python software in my windows 10 os...
> i have provided u with the image of error that is occurring during
> installation
> [image: Inline image 1]

Attachments are not allowed on this list.

Please copy and paste the error you receive in the email.

Thank you.

> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From ikorot01 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 09:01:28 2016
From: ikorot01 at gmail.com (Igor Korot)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:01:28 -0400
Subject: No subject
In-Reply-To: <5709219d.09bc420a.991b6.ffff9ba1@mx.google.com>
References: <5709219d.09bc420a.991b6.ffff9ba1@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FnnTwT7DL0DUq676BX3i1FQkB3k1rMGWkoQPtokTTVTQ7LOw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 11:37 AM, DEEPAK KUMAR PAWAR
<deepakpawar.2310 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am trying to install numpy along with the python35
> But it getting error everytime.

What error you receive?

Please copy and paste the error as this list does not allow screenshots...

Thank you.

>
>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From random832 at fastmail.com  Mon Apr 11 09:42:13 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:42:13 -0400
Subject: Parens do create a tuple
In-Reply-To: <570b59db$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <1460333911.3449208.574628345.4B46CD32@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85r3ed2ctn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmqXpXvDCJWPypvZodBbJ+hkf_Hizz9Cb-2-4MbLdv=-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <85inzp2c93.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmp=VDKwgKNXgED2nbYqsQ4J0OfRxA6F4HLR5_oakOGpGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <857fg43orj.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.10.1460339107.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570b0ca9$0$1608$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1460343095.1633279.574715601.355BA760@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.14.1460343098.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570b2330$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1460352479.2404917.574799201.61DF3CED@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.21.1460352482.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570b59db$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1460382133.3205062.575169425.0FE1EC18@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016, at 04:01, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> What tuple that is passed to FunctionType.__call__?
> 
> Where is the tuple in these examples?
> 
> 
> py> from types import FunctionType
> py> FunctionType.__call__(lambda x: x+1, 23)
> 24
> py> FunctionType.__call__(lambda x, y: str(x)+str(y), 23, 42)
> '2342'
> 
> I don't see any evidence of a tuple being involved anywhere visible from 
> Python code.

The fact that it can be called with two positional arguments in your
first example, and three in your second, is itself weak evidence for
this (more evidence is needed to show that these aren't
keyword/positional arguments with defaults) - a pure python function
that behaved as FunctionType.__call__ would have to be defined with
*args and **kwargs. And, indeed...

>>> inspect.signature(FunctionType.__call__)
<Signature (self, /, *args, **kwargs)>

I am assuming that *args' use of a tuple is defined as part of the
language. If I'm mistaken and it can be any sequence, I suppose I stand
corrected.

> How do you know that there's a tuple involved? (That's not a 
> rhetorical question, I am genuinely curious.)


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Apr 11 10:10:12 2016
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 14:10:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: one-element tuples
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org> <851t6d3s0k.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.4.1460334906.13861.python-list@python.org>
 <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org> <85mvp12cau.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.2.1460336194.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <negb84$9ff$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2016-04-11, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Fillmore <fillmore_remove at hotmail.com> writes:
>>
>> I can tell you that it exists because it bit me in the butt today...
>>
>> and mind you, I am not saying that this is wrong. I'm just saying that
>> it surprised me.
>
> What behaviour did you expect instead? That's still unclear.

I must admit this is one of the best trolls I've seen in a while...

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! GOOD-NIGHT, everybody
                                  at               ... Now I have to go
                              gmail.com            administer FIRST-AID to my
                                                   pet LEISURE SUIT!!


From fillmore_remove at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 11 10:11:18 2016
From: fillmore_remove at hotmail.com (Fillmore)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:11:18 -0400
Subject: one-element tuples
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org> <851t6d3s0k.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.4.1460334906.13861.python-list@python.org>
 <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org> <85mvp12cau.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.2.1460336194.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <negb84$9ff$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <negba4$1cp0$1@gioia.aioe.org>

On 04/11/2016 10:10 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:

>> What behaviour did you expect instead? That's still unclear.
>
> I must admit this is one of the best trolls I've seen in a while...
>

shall I take it as a compliment?


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Apr 11 10:12:41 2016
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 14:12:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: one-element tuples
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org> <851t6d3s0k.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.4.1460334906.13861.python-list@python.org>
 <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neg0ra$bvi$1@dont-email.me>
 <87vb3ony39.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <negbcp$9ff$2@reader1.panix.com>

On 2016-04-11, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> BartC <bc at freeuk.com>:
>
>> Of course this doesn't help you parsing typical input which uses
>> commas as separators, not terminators!
>
> That's a red herring. You mustn't parse with eval(). You shouldn't event
> think of parsing non-Python data with eval().

And you problably shouldn't think of parsing Python data with eval()
either -- but for different reasons: It's very difficult to use eval()
safely.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I want you to MEMORIZE
                                  at               the collected poems of
                              gmail.com            EDNA ST VINCENT MILLAY
                                                   ... BACKWARDS!!


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Apr 11 10:24:23 2016
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 14:24:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Is threading better on Usenet or gmane?
Message-ID: <negc2n$lr0$1@reader1.panix.com>

I've been reading c.l.p on Usenet for many, many years.  There has
always been a certain abount of thread breakage (presumably due to
broken e-mail clients and/or the list<->usenet gateway), but it seems
to have gotten worse lately.

Has anybody noticed whether the threading is less broken if one reads
the list on gmane?  Everytime I decide to try to do a direct
comparison, I can't find enough thread breaks to tell if there's a
significant difference.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Somewhere in Tenafly,
                                  at               New Jersey, a chiropractor
                              gmail.com            is viewing "Leave it to
                                                   Beaver"!


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Apr 11 10:26:21 2016
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 14:26:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: one-element tuples
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org> <851t6d3s0k.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.4.1460334906.13861.python-list@python.org>
 <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org> <85mvp12cau.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.2.1460336194.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <negb84$9ff$1@reader1.panix.com> <negba4$1cp0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <negc6c$lr0$2@reader1.panix.com>

On 2016-04-11, Fillmore <fillmore_remove at hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 04/11/2016 10:10 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>>> What behaviour did you expect instead? That's still unclear.
>>
>> I must admit this is one of the best trolls I've seen in a while...
>
> shall I take it as a compliment?

That depends on your intent, so only you really know the answer.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I hope something GOOD
                                  at               came in the mail today so
                              gmail.com            I have a REASON to live!!


From random832 at fastmail.com  Mon Apr 11 10:41:33 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:41:33 -0400
Subject: Is threading better on Usenet or gmane?
In-Reply-To: <negc2n$lr0$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <negc2n$lr0$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1460385693.3220159.575241033.0E32F975@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016, at 10:24, Grant Edwards wrote:
> I've been reading c.l.p on Usenet for many, many years.  There has
> always been a certain abount of thread breakage (presumably due to
> broken e-mail clients and/or the list<->usenet gateway), but it seems
> to have gotten worse lately.
> 
> Has anybody noticed whether the threading is less broken if one reads
> the list on gmane?  Everytime I decide to try to do a direct
> comparison, I can't find enough thread breaks to tell if there's a
> significant difference.

I've already outlined under what circumstances threading is likely to be
broken (before the recent changes):

| For users reading by the mailing list, Usenet users' replies to
| Mailing List users will be broken (but their replies to each other
| will be fine). For users reading by Usenet, Mailing List users'
| replies to each other will be broken (though all replies made via
| Usenet or to Usenet users will be fine).

gmane is essentially the same as reading it by email as far as this
issue is concerned.

What the new change (see Mark Sapiro's recent posts on this topic)
should fix is the first half of that. It doesn't necessarily do anything
about the second half:

Email User A posts message B at email.com, this becomes C at python.org (the
new change makes this look like a reply to the nonexistent B at email.com)
Email User D replies with E at email.net, this becomes F at python.org (but
still says it's a reply to B at email.com)
Usenet User G replies (to A/B) with H at usenet.com, this is a reply to
C at python.org, but (with the new change) acknowledges B at email.com as the
"grandparent article", so mailing list users should still see it under
B's thread.

So, even though D's message is a reply to A's message, it won't show up
that way on usenet. G's message should show up fine on both.


Everything would be perfect if everyone posted to Usenet and read by
email/gmane.


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Apr 11 10:55:46 2016
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 14:55:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Is threading better on Usenet or gmane?
References: <negc2n$lr0$1@reader1.panix.com>
 <1460385693.3220159.575241033.0E32F975@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.31.1460385695.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <negdti$mum$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2016-04-11, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:

> I've already outlined under what circumstances threading is likely
> to be broken (before the recent changes):
>
>| For users reading by the mailing list, Usenet users' replies to
>| Mailing List users will be broken (but their replies to each other
>| will be fine). For users reading by Usenet, Mailing List users'
>| replies to each other will be broken (though all replies made via
>| Usenet or to Usenet users will be fine).
>
> gmane is essentially the same as reading it by email as far as this
> issue is concerned.
>
> What the new change (see Mark Sapiro's recent posts on this topic)
> should fix is the first half of that. It doesn't necessarily do anything
> about the second half:

OK. So recent fix should fix all gateway-related thread breakage for
mailing-list readers (which includes gmane).  I had read most of the
thread on that change, but was still confused about exactly what was
getting fixed.

Thanks for clarifying it.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I'll eat ANYTHING
                                  at               that's BRIGHT BLUE!!
                              gmail.com            


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Apr 11 11:58:28 2016
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 15:58:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Is threading better on Usenet or gmane?
References: <negc2n$lr0$1@reader1.panix.com>
 <1460385693.3220159.575241033.0E32F975@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.31.1460385695.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <negdti$mum$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <neghj4$q02$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2016-04-11, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:

I just finished checking a very recent thread containing 67 articles
by pointing slrn at news.panix.com for the Usenet version and at
news.gmane.com for the mailing-list version.

Both servers appeared to show the same set of 67 articles (that alone
is pretty good) though the tree structures were rather different.

Then I checked each article to see if its parent article was availble.

On the Usenet side, 35 of 67 articles had unavailable parent articles,
which is pretty bad compared to non-gatewayed groups.

On the mailing-list side 15 of 67 had unavailable parent articles,
which is a bit shabby by general usenet standards, but probably pretty
decent for gatewayed groups.

How representative that thread was is left as an exercise for the
reader.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! If Robert Di Niro
                                  at               assassinates Walter Slezak,
                              gmail.com            will Jodie Foster marry
                                                   Bonzo??


From daiyueweng at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 12:08:39 2016
From: daiyueweng at gmail.com (Daiyue Weng)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 17:08:39 +0100
Subject: python pandas convert strings to datetime problems
Message-ID: <CAF_EDkvyR4Ri7R+pEWNQdEenVi6pir9zGC6ZKew2eCw93ZuJ8Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, I need to compare the years in a Series. The values in the Series is
like '1996', '2015', '2006-01-02' or '20130101' etc. The code I created is,

col_value_series = pd.to_datetime(col_value_series, infer_datetime_format=True)
min_year = col_value_series.min().year
max_year = col_value_series.max().year

current_year = datetime.date.today().year

res1 = min_year > 1970
res2 = max_year < current_year
return min_year > 1970 and max_year < current_year

the code is working fine on the values like '20030101' and '2006-01-02',
which are converted to datetime, i.e. '2003-01-01'. But it converted values
'1996' or '2015' to '1970-01-01 00:00:00.000001996' and '1970-01-01
00:00:00.000002015', which are completely wrong (meaning the years are all
1970 now). So how to resolve the issue.

thanks


From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 13:16:36 2016
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 17:16:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Is threading better on Usenet or gmane?
References: <negc2n$lr0$1@reader1.panix.com>
 <1460385693.3220159.575241033.0E32F975@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.31.1460385695.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <negdti$mum$1@reader1.panix.com> <neghj4$q02$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <negm5k$ife$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2016-04-11, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 2016-04-11, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> I just finished checking a very recent thread containing 67 articles
> by pointing slrn at news.panix.com for the Usenet version and at
> news.gmane.com for the mailing-list version.
[...]
> On the Usenet side, 35 of 67 articles had unavailable parent
> articles,
[...]
> On the mailing-list side 15 of 67 had unavailable parent articles,

FWIW, an automated test on the 1000 most recent articles showed this:

                         Usenet   Gmane
        No References      69      104
   Unavailable Parent     357       34

Due to moderation/filtering, the set of articles from the two servers
probably isn't identical.

For posts that aren't follow-ups, no references is normal, but I'm
surprised by the size of the difference in number of articles with no
references header.

An unavailable parent means that there _was_ a refrences header, but
the most recent reference didn't map to an available article on the
server in question.

In general, the situation appears to be significantly better on Gmane
-- even if we assume that the excess number of "no reference"
ariticles on Gmane indicates those articles are broken and should have
references.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Let me do my TRIBUTE
                                  at               to FISHNET STOCKINGS ...
                              gmail.com            



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Apr 11 14:41:27 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 20:41:27 +0200
Subject: python pandas convert strings to datetime problems
References: <CAF_EDkvyR4Ri7R+pEWNQdEenVi6pir9zGC6ZKew2eCw93ZuJ8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <negr4s$8jh$1@ger.gmane.org>

Daiyue Weng wrote:

> Hi, I need to compare the years in a Series. The values in the Series is
> like '1996', '2015', '2006-01-02' or '20130101' etc. The code I created
> is,
> 
> col_value_series = pd.to_datetime(col_value_series,
> infer_datetime_format=True) min_year = col_value_series.min().year
> max_year = col_value_series.max().year
> 
> current_year = datetime.date.today().year
> 
> res1 = min_year > 1970
> res2 = max_year < current_year
> return min_year > 1970 and max_year < current_year
> 
> the code is working fine on the values like '20030101' and '2006-01-02',
> which are converted to datetime, i.e. '2003-01-01'. But it converted
> values '1996' or '2015' to '1970-01-01 00:00:00.000001996' and '1970-01-01
> 00:00:00.000002015', which are completely wrong (meaning the years are all
> 1970 now). So how to resolve the issue.

This seems to happen when the year-only dates are integers. Compare:

>>> import pandas as pd
>>> pd.to_datetime(pd.Series(["2010-10-20", 2000]))
0          2010-10-20 00:00:00
1   1970-01-01 00:00:00.000002
dtype: datetime64[ns]
>>> pd.to_datetime(pd.Series(["2010-10-20", "2000"]))
0   2010-10-20
1   2000-01-01
dtype: datetime64[ns]

How is your series created? Perhaps you can ensure that you start out with 
strings only.



From nospam at dfs.com  Mon Apr 11 17:49:33 2016
From: nospam at dfs.com (DFS)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 17:49:33 -0400
Subject: OT: Anyone here use the ConEmu console app?
Message-ID: <neh5v6$2f2$1@dont-email.me>

I turned on the Quake-style option (and auto-hide when it loses focus) 
and it disappeared and I can't figure out how to get it back onscreen. I 
think there's a keystroke combo (like Win+key) but I don't know what it is.

It shows in the Task Manager Processses, but not in the Alt+Tab list.

Uninstalled and reinstalled and now it launches Quake-style and hidden. 
  Looked everywhere (\Users\AppData\Local, Registry) for leftover 
settings file but couldn't find it.

Here's the screen where you make the Quake-style setting.
https://conemu.github.io/en/SettingsAppearance.html



Thanks


From lab at 2020fresno.com  Mon Apr 11 18:04:00 2016
From: lab at 2020fresno.com (20/20 Lab)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 15:04:00 -0700
Subject: OT: Anyone here use the ConEmu console app?
In-Reply-To: <neh5v6$2f2$1@dont-email.me>
References: <neh5v6$2f2$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <570C1F50.9090204@2020fresno.com>

win+alt+space does not work?  ctrl+alt+win+space?

http://conemu.github.io/en/KeyboardShortcuts.html

Says those are not configurable, so they should work.

On 04/11/2016 02:49 PM, DFS wrote:
> I turned on the Quake-style option (and auto-hide when it loses focus) 
> and it disappeared and I can't figure out how to get it back onscreen. 
> I think there's a keystroke combo (like Win+key) but I don't know what 
> it is.
>
> It shows in the Task Manager Processses, but not in the Alt+Tab list.
>
> Uninstalled and reinstalled and now it launches Quake-style and 
> hidden.  Looked everywhere (\Users\AppData\Local, Registry) for 
> leftover settings file but couldn't find it.
>
> Here's the screen where you make the Quake-style setting.
> https://conemu.github.io/en/SettingsAppearance.html
>
>
>
> Thanks



From johnhpote at o2.co.uk  Mon Apr 11 18:44:25 2016
From: johnhpote at o2.co.uk (John Pote)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 23:44:25 +0100
Subject: REMOVE ME
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrdgBsSWUkNi+H8Tm8eqHA53pxVM-FP8ChqsxRNCeRNGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALuqfDDNQ0N6xQXEKurzK1v0eVfU7jr6=-uvLT1zeGcf3vgexQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrdgBsSWUkNi+H8Tm8eqHA53pxVM-FP8ChqsxRNCeRNGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <570C28C9.3090103@o2.co.uk>

On 10/04/2016 04:52, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 1:46 PM, fan nie <niefan68 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> --
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> Sure. I presume you mean something like this:
>
> class Thing:
>      things = []
>      def __init__(self):
>          self.things.append(self)
>      def __del__(self):
>          # Remove me when I'm dead
>          self.things.remove(self)
>
> This ingenious technique guarantees that you never have dead objects
> in your list, by having each object remove itself when it dies.
>
> ChrisA
I'm not quite sure how tongue in cheek ChrisA's reply and the Thing 
class was but it did make me think and wonder if my understanding of 
Python lore was quite right. To my mind it looks like a Zombie or even 
Revenant class.

If all external references to an instance of Thing are deleted there is 
still the reference from the class list 'things []'. In which case will 
not this prevent the instance from being garbage collected and __del__() 
never called on the dead instance and its memory never released. But a 
memory dump could reveal the ghost of the instance. On the other hand a 
code wizard with the right lore could resurect the instance by getting 
the reference to it and bring it back to life -
     revenant = Thing.things[x]

But then I notice 'things' is used as an instance attribute rather than 
a class attribute. All seems to be shrouded in a web of mystery

Regards,
John


From steve at pearwood.info  Mon Apr 11 19:10:54 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 09:10:54 +1000
Subject: REMOVE ME
References: <CALuqfDDNQ0N6xQXEKurzK1v0eVfU7jr6=-uvLT1zeGcf3vgexQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrdgBsSWUkNi+H8Tm8eqHA53pxVM-FP8ChqsxRNCeRNGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <570C28C9.3090103@o2.co.uk>
 <mailman.36.1460414670.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <570c2f00$0$1608$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 08:44 am, John Pote wrote:

> On 10/04/2016 04:52, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 1:46 PM, fan nie <niefan68 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> --
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>> Sure. I presume you mean something like this:
>>
>> class Thing:
>>      things = []
>>      def __init__(self):
>>          self.things.append(self)
>>      def __del__(self):
>>          # Remove me when I'm dead
>>          self.things.remove(self)
>>
>> This ingenious technique guarantees that you never have dead objects
>> in your list, by having each object remove itself when it dies.
>>
>> ChrisA
> I'm not quite sure how tongue in cheek ChrisA's reply and the Thing
> class was 

I'm sure it was extremely tongue in cheek.


> but it did make me think and wonder if my understanding of 
> Python lore was quite right. To my mind it looks like a Zombie or even
> Revenant class.
> 
> If all external references to an instance of Thing are deleted there is
> still the reference from the class list 'things []'. In which case will
> not this prevent the instance from being garbage collected and __del__()
> never called on the dead instance and its memory never released. 

Correct.


> But a 
> memory dump could reveal the ghost of the instance. On the other hand a
> code wizard with the right lore could resurect the instance by getting
> the reference to it and bring it back to life -
>      revenant = Thing.things[x]
> 
> But then I notice 'things' is used as an instance attribute rather than
> a class attribute. All seems to be shrouded in a web of mystery

Your first analysis was correct. "self.things" is actually a class
attribute, despite being accessed from "self". The reason being, attribute
lookups look for:

- instance attributes;
- class attributes;
- superclass attributes;

in that order. (This is actually an extremely simplified view, but close
enough for what we're discussing.) Hence "self.things" will return the same
list each time, the one defined as a class attribute, regardless of
which "self" does the lookup.

If a method were to assign to the attribute, for example "self.things = []",
that would create an instance attribute, but that doesn't happen.



-- 
Steven



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Apr 11 19:15:01 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 19:15:01 -0400
Subject: "unable to find vcvarsall.bat"
Message-ID: <nehb6e$es5$1@ger.gmane.org>

Blog post by Steve Dower of Microsoft and CPython core developer.
'''How to deal with the pain of ?unable to find vcvarsall.bat?'''
https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/pythonengineering/2016/04/11/unable-to-find-vcvarsall-bat/

Explains the message and the two solutions: get the needed C compiler; 
get a precompiled binary.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy




From sourav524.itscient at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 19:28:51 2016
From: sourav524.itscient at gmail.com (sourav524.itscient at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 16:28:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: !! Immediate Position:Technical Consultant at (The Woodlands, TX) !!
Message-ID: <56488007-245e-4652-82e4-9ddc1a62ae2c@googlegroups.com>

Hi All , 
Please go through the below job description and let me know your interest.

Position:  Technical Consultant
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Duration: 6+ Months 
 
Requisition Details:
 
Job Description:-
 
QUALIFICATIONS                                                                                                               
? Over 5 years of IT applications experience is required, preferably on Environmental, Health and Safety applications.
? Job Knowledge: Exhibits skills and experience in all phases of application systems development and implementation, including analysis/design, blueprinting, configuration, documentation, testing, training, and support.  In addition the candidate should also have a working knowledge of systems architecture, systems integration, data analysis, data modeling, and data base design.
? Technical/Functional support experience is highly desirable in the following areas:
o Technical: (mandatory)
? Server operations ? Server 2003, 2008, 2008R2, 2012, 2012R2
? IIS and Tomcat
? Oracle and SQL Databases (No direct access to DB?s on server, DB?s accessed through programs similar to TOAD or SQL Server Management Studio)
? SQL statement scripting
? SSRS ? creation, modification, .net programing
? Experience in the development/support of client/server applications, web applications using ASP.NET, ASP, C#, VB.NET, writing stored procedures in SQL server 2008 and/or Oracle 10/11 is desirable.
o Applications: (must have experience on 3-4 applications out of 8 mentioned below)
? Meridium
? KMS
? E3 VMSDS
? IULCID
? SAP PS Configuration (Report Shipping, Templates, GLM, SAP WWI, SDS    Web interface, SAP CLEO Content, SVT, MSDS Maker, OCC, DG, ect.)
? Medgate(IH/OH)
? Stature
? PHA PRO
 
Thanks & Regards 
                                               
Sourav Paul | Technical Recruiter
	
IT?SCIENT LLC, Fremont, CA, USA  
Email: Sourav.P at itscient.com
Phone: 510-972-8633 | Fax: 877-701-5240
|web: www.itscient.com


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Apr 11 19:44:52 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 09:44:52 +1000
Subject: Please use the Python Job Board for recruitment (was: !! Immediate
 Position:Technical Consultant at (The Woodlands, TX) !!)
In-Reply-To: <56488007-245e-4652-82e4-9ddc1a62ae2c@googlegroups.com> (sourav's
 message of "Mon, 11 Apr 2016 16:28:51 -0700 (PDT)")
References: <56488007-245e-4652-82e4-9ddc1a62ae2c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <85fuur1zij.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

sourav524.itscient at gmail.com writes:

> Please go through the below job description and let me know your interest.

This forum should not be used for job seeking or recruitment.

Please use the Python Job Board, which exists specifically for that
<URL:https://www.python.org/jobs/>.

-- 
 \     ?Don't be afraid of missing opportunities. Behind every failure |
  `\         is an opportunity somebody wishes they had missed.? ?Jane |
_o__)                                          Wagner, via Lily Tomlin |
Ben Finney <ben at benfinney.id.au>


From jsf80238 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 20:01:00 2016
From: jsf80238 at gmail.com (Jason Friedman)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 00:01:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python,ping,csv
References: <o1JNy.43731$pt.31548@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
 <CANy1k1h392HiXq-onCAFj1zJkK0Z31AXeR6fEtnf7fZ-5fHkaQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.0.1460259273.424.python-list@python.org>
 <L3KOy.43878$pt.32317@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <loom.20160412T020003-977@post.gmane.org>

> I added a line.
> I would need to put the output into a csv file which contained the 
> results of the hosts up and down.
> Can you help me?
> 
> import subprocess
> from ipaddress import IPv4Network
> for address in IPv4Network('10.24.59.0/24').hosts():
> 	a = str(address)
> 	res = subprocess.call(['ping', '-c', '3', address])
> 

"""Typical output from ping:

$ ping -c 3 10.2.2.2
PING 10.2.2.2 (10.2.2.2) 56(84) bytes of data.

--- 10.2.2.2 ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 1999ms


$ ping -c 3 localhost
PING localhost (127.0.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from localhost (127.0.0.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.030 ms
64 bytes from localhost (127.0.0.1): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.040 ms
64 bytes from localhost (127.0.0.1): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.042 ms

--- localhost ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 1998ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.030/0.037/0.042/0.007 ms
"""

import csv
import ipaddress
import re
import subprocess
import sys
NETWORK = "192.168.1.0"
MASK = "24"
with open('some.csv', 'w', newline='') as f:
    writer = csv.writer(f)
    writer.writerow(("Address", "% success"))
    for address in ipaddress.IPv4Network('%s/%s' % (NETWORK, 
MASK)).hosts():
        print("Pinging %s ..." % address, file=sys.stderr)
        command = "ping -c 3 %s" % address
        output = subprocess.getoutput(command)
        match = re.search(r"(\d+)% packet loss", output)
        if match:
            percent_lost = match.group(1)
            writer.writerow((str(address), 100 - int(percent_lost)))
        else:
            # If we reach this point the ping command output
            # was not in the expected output format
            writer.writerow((str(address), ""))







From nospam at dfs.com  Mon Apr 11 20:17:27 2016
From: nospam at dfs.com (DFS)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 20:17:27 -0400
Subject: OT: Anyone here use the ConEmu console app?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.37.1460414750.15650.python-list@python.org>
References: <neh5v6$2f2$1@dont-email.me> <570C1F50.9090204@2020fresno.com>
 <mailman.37.1460414750.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nehekh$vbf$1@dont-email.me>

On 4/11/2016 6:04 PM, 20/20 Lab wrote:
> win+alt+space does not work?  ctrl+alt+win+space?
>
> http://conemu.github.io/en/KeyboardShortcuts.html
>
> Says those are not configurable, so they should work.


Neither of those worked, but Ctrl+~ did.

Thankyouthankyouthankyou



> On 04/11/2016 02:49 PM, DFS wrote:
>> I turned on the Quake-style option (and auto-hide when it loses focus)
>> and it disappeared and I can't figure out how to get it back onscreen.
>> I think there's a keystroke combo (like Win+key) but I don't know what
>> it is.
>>
>> It shows in the Task Manager Processses, but not in the Alt+Tab list.
>>
>> Uninstalled and reinstalled and now it launches Quake-style and
>> hidden.  Looked everywhere (\Users\AppData\Local, Registry) for
>> leftover settings file but couldn't find it.
>>
>> Here's the screen where you make the Quake-style setting.
>> https://conemu.github.io/en/SettingsAppearance.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>



From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 20:44:59 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 10:44:59 +1000
Subject: REMOVE ME
In-Reply-To: <570c2f00$0$1608$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CALuqfDDNQ0N6xQXEKurzK1v0eVfU7jr6=-uvLT1zeGcf3vgexQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrdgBsSWUkNi+H8Tm8eqHA53pxVM-FP8ChqsxRNCeRNGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <570C28C9.3090103@o2.co.uk>
 <mailman.36.1460414670.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570c2f00$0$1608$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrabYEELZ6nV9ZDtQn=vVwkX_jN6+oc2y+aRPMpddCbBQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 9:10 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> Hence "self.things" will return the same
> list each time, the one defined as a class attribute, regardless of
> which "self" does the lookup.
>
> If a method were to assign to the attribute, for example "self.things = []",
> that would create an instance attribute, but that doesn't happen.

Indeed. And the __del__ method is guaranteed always to raise an
exception; by the time __del__ gets called, there can't be any
references to the object anywhere, so it can't be in that list any
more...

ChrisA


From jsf80238 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 21:17:49 2016
From: jsf80238 at gmail.com (Jason Friedman)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 19:17:49 -0600
Subject: Python,ping,csv
In-Reply-To: <L3KOy.43878$pt.32317@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
References: <o1JNy.43731$pt.31548@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
 <CANy1k1h392HiXq-onCAFj1zJkK0Z31AXeR6fEtnf7fZ-5fHkaQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.0.1460259273.424.python-list@python.org>
 <L3KOy.43878$pt.32317@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <CANy1k1hEMDmkZaQugrbgWdY3ekv5EQocyUJ9pLzXFU-y8++r1A@mail.gmail.com>

> I added a line.
> I would need to put the output into a csv file which contained the results
> of the hosts up and down.
> Can you help me?
>
>
> import subprocess
> from ipaddress import IPv4Network
> for address in IPv4Network('10.24.59.0/24').hosts():
>         a = str(address)
>         res = subprocess.call(['ping', '-c', '3', address])

"""Typical output from ping:

$ ping -c 3 10.2.2.2
PING 10.2.2.2 (10.2.2.2) 56(84) bytes of data.

--- 10.2.2.2 ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 1999ms


$ ping -c 3 localhost
PING localhost (127.0.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from localhost (127.0.0.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.030 ms
64 bytes from localhost (127.0.0.1): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.040 ms
64 bytes from localhost (127.0.0.1): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.042 ms

--- localhost ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 1998ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.030/0.037/0.042/0.007 ms
"""

import csv
import ipaddress
import re
import subprocess
import sys
NETWORK = "192.168.1.0"
MASK = "24"
with open('some.csv', 'w', newline='') as f:
    writer = csv.writer(f)
    writer.writerow(("Address", "% success"))
    for address in ipaddress.IPv4Network('%s/%s' % (NETWORK, MASK)).hosts():
        print("Pinging %s ..." % address, file=sys.stderr)
        command = "ping -c 3 %s" % address
        output = subprocess.getoutput(command)
        match = re.search(r"(\d+)% packet loss", output)
        if match:
            percent_lost = match.group(1)
            writer.writerow((str(address), 100 - int(percent_lost)))
        else:
            # If we reach this point the ping command output
            # was not in the expected output format
            writer.writerow((str(address), ""))


From orgnut at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 12 02:01:50 2016
From: orgnut at yahoo.com (Larry Hudson)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 23:01:50 -0700
Subject: one-element tuples
In-Reply-To: <nef550$180h$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <neelcl$mer$1@gioia.aioe.org> <neeq6v$ruk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <neeqnl$sac$2@gioia.aioe.org> <851t6d3s0k.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.4.1460334906.13861.python-list@python.org>
 <nees92$u4t$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604101756410.9117@qnttre.jbaqresebt.arg>
 <mailman.7.1460336894.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <nef550$180h$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <zOydnXTFuqvNEpHKnZ2dnUU7-QHNnZ2d@giganews.com>

On 04/10/2016 08:19 PM, Fillmore wrote:
>
> Thank you for trying to help, Martin. So:
>
> On 04/10/2016 09:08 PM, Martin A. Brown wrote:
>> #1: I would not choose eval() except when there is no other
>>      solution.  If you don't need eval(), it may save you some
>>      headache in the future, as well, to find an alternate way.
>>      So, can we help you choose something other than eval()?
>>      What are you trying to do with that usage?
>
> so, I do not quite control the format of the file I am trying to parse.
>
> it has the format:
>
> "str1","str2",....,"strN" => more stuff
>    :
>
> in some cases there is just one "str" which is what created me problem.
> The first "str1" has special meaning and, at times, it can be alone.
>
> The way I handle this is:
>
>      parts = line.strip().split(" => ")
>      tokens = eval(parts[0])
>

[code deleted...]

> which admittedly is not very elegant. If you have suggestions on how to avoid the use
> of eval() and still achieve the same, I would be delighted to hear them
>
>

Here is a possible alternate approach to get you started thinking in a different direction...

Assuming your input string format is always as you describe, splitting off the trailing 'noise' 
can be done the way you are already doing.  It can be done other ways as well.  (Of course, for 
a 'real' program you will probably need to verify this assumption and take appropriate action if 
necessary.)

parts = line.strip().split(' => ')[0]

Note that this trailing index of 0 will throw away the trailing junk, and leave just the initial 
part of the original line as a string.  This can then be split on the commas to give you a list 
of strings...

tokens = parts.split(',')

This will give you, for example,

['"str1"']   #  Case 1, or
['"str1"', '"str2"', '"str3"', ...]  #  Case 2

There is still a problem here.  The strings CONTAIN beginning and ending quotes INSIDE the 
strings.  We can strip these internal quotes with slicing.  I'm also using a list comprehension 
here...

tokens = [st[1:-1] for st in tokens]

Which gives:  ['str1', 'str2', 'str3', ...]

Finally, there are at least two ways of splitting off the first string:  slicing or pop().

key = tokens[0]; tokens = tokens[1:]
     or
key = tokens.pop(0)    #  This simultaneously removes the first string from the tokens list

Where key is the first string, and tokens is a list of the remaining strings.  This list may be 
empty.  You can now use the key for whatever you need it for, and you can use a for loop for the 
remaining strings.  Note that this also works correctly for an empty list -- where it will do 
nothing.

I hope this gets you started reworking (or re-thinking) your program.



From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Tue Apr 12 05:48:30 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 02:48:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Advice on Python build tools
Message-ID: <5d1ee478-ab0b-42c5-bb86-29e7a539f88d@googlegroups.com>

Hi

Looking at the wiki list of build tools
https://wiki.python.org/moin/ConfigurationAndBuildTools

Has anyone much experience in build tools as i have no preference or experience to lean on.

Off descriptions only i would choose invoke.

My requirements, simply i want to learn and build a simple static website generator. Many i am not liking design of or are overkill so its a good opportunity to learn, logya is a good starting point for what i think a good python static generator should be.

Second i want to use Jade templates (js) as i think they are more pythonic than jinja and mako so being able to have mixed js and python support would be needed.

Thoughts? 

Sayth


From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Tue Apr 12 05:49:42 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 02:49:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT: Anyone here use the ConEmu console app?
In-Reply-To: <nehekh$vbf$1@dont-email.me>
References: <neh5v6$2f2$1@dont-email.me> <570C1F50.9090204@2020fresno.com>
 <mailman.37.1460414750.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <nehekh$vbf$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <84528a87-f3c9-46cd-8ca2-771047fd1185@googlegroups.com>

Win 10 will have full bash provided by project between Ubuntu and MS so that's pretty cool

Sayth


From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Tue Apr 12 06:04:42 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 03:04:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Advice on Python build tools
In-Reply-To: <5d1ee478-ab0b-42c5-bb86-29e7a539f88d@googlegroups.com>
References: <5d1ee478-ab0b-42c5-bb86-29e7a539f88d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e9db5830-1842-402f-b660-ea2831dd0837@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, 12 April 2016 19:48:43 UTC+10, Sayth Renshaw  wrote:
> Hi
> 
> Looking at the wiki list of build tools
> https://wiki.python.org/moin/ConfigurationAndBuildTools
> 
> Has anyone much experience in build tools as i have no preference or experience to lean on.
> 
> Off descriptions only i would choose invoke.
> 
> My requirements, simply i want to learn and build a simple static website generator. Many i am not liking design of or are overkill so its a good opportunity to learn, logya is a good starting point for what i think a good python static generator should be.
> 
> Second i want to use Jade templates (js) as i think they are more pythonic than jinja and mako so being able to have mixed js and python support would be needed.
> 
> Thoughts? 
> 
> Sayth

Just to add if would affect your opinion I will be using Python 3 only so no py2 dependency and this is the project logya I was referring to https://github.com/yaph/logya

Sayth


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Apr 12 07:10:40 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 21:10:40 +1000
Subject: Advice on Python build tools
References: <5d1ee478-ab0b-42c5-bb86-29e7a539f88d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <85r3ebyte7.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Sayth Renshaw <flebber.crue at gmail.com> writes:

> Looking at the wiki list of build tools
> https://wiki.python.org/moin/ConfigurationAndBuildTools
>
> Has anyone much experience in build tools as i have no preference or
> experience to lean on.

I'm quite fine with GNU Make, so haven't really tried a lot of others.

I am fascinated by what I've seen of Meson <URL:http://mesonbuild.com/>.
It claims to behave very well with operating system package managers,
which if true makes it unique among Python-based build systems.

-- 
 \                  ?It is ? incumbent upon us to recognize that it is |
  `\    inappropriate for religion to play any role in issues of state |
_o__)        [of] a modern democracy.? ?Lawrence M. Krauss, 2012-05-28 |
Ben Finney



From ganesh1pal at gmail.com  Tue Apr 12 08:50:54 2016
From: ganesh1pal at gmail.com (Ganesh Pal)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 18:20:54 +0530
Subject: sys.exit(1) vs raise SystemExit vs raise
Message-ID: <CACT3xuUFeOXbjwiWhgZ90UMPi5xXQaj9HpxU3Aepz2Hr8Kw42Q@mail.gmail.com>

I m on python 2.7 and Linux ,  I have a simple code  need suggestion if  I
 I could replace sys.exit(1) with raise  SystemExit .


==Actual code==

def main():
    try:
        create_logdir()
        create_dataset()
        unittest.main()
    except Exception as e:
        logging.exception(e)
        sys.exit(EXIT_STATUS_ERROR)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()

==Changed Code==


def main():
    try:
        create_logdir()
        create_dataset()
        unittest.main()
    except Exception as e:
        logging.exception(e)
        raise SystemExit

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()


2. All the functions in try block have exception bubbled out using raise

   Example for create_logdir() here is the function definition

def create_logdir():

    try:
        os.makedirs(LOG_DIR)
    except OSError as e:
        sys.stderr.write("Failed to create log directory...Exiting !!!")
        raise
    print "log file: " + corrupt_log
    return True

def main():
    try:
        create_logdir()
    except Exception as e:
        logging.exception(e)
        raise SystemExit

(a) In case if create_logdir() fails we will get the below error ,is
this fine or do I need to improve this code.

Failed to create log directory...Exiting !!!ERROR:root:[Errno 17] File
exists: '/var/log/dummy'

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "corrupt_test.py", line 245, in main
    create_logdir()
  File "corrupt_test.py", line 53, in create_logdir
    os.makedirs(LOG_DIR)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/os.py", line 157, in makedirs
OSError: [Errno 17] File exists: '/var/log/dummy'


3. Can I have just raise , instead of SystemExit or sys.exit(1) . This
looks wrong to me

  def main():

    try:
        create_logdir()
    except Exception as e
        logging.exception(e)
        raise

 Regards,

Ganesh


From random832 at fastmail.com  Tue Apr 12 09:10:19 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 09:10:19 -0400
Subject: sys.exit(1) vs raise SystemExit vs raise
In-Reply-To: <CACT3xuUFeOXbjwiWhgZ90UMPi5xXQaj9HpxU3Aepz2Hr8Kw42Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACT3xuUFeOXbjwiWhgZ90UMPi5xXQaj9HpxU3Aepz2Hr8Kw42Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1460466619.3532860.576358617.719C413A@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016, at 08:50, Ganesh Pal wrote:
> I m on python 2.7 and Linux ,  I have a simple code  need suggestion if 
> I
>  I could replace sys.exit(1) with raise  SystemExit .

No; raise SystemExit is equivalent to sys.exit(0); you would need raise
SystemExit(1) to return 1.

Why do you want to do this, though? What do you think you gain from it?


From kyosohma at gmail.com  Tue Apr 12 09:16:01 2016
From: kyosohma at gmail.com (Mike Driscoll)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 06:16:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Strange urlopen error
Message-ID: <6ad1fa56-3bc6-4141-84ab-77a6e8ecdbed@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I have recently run into an issue at work where we are having intermittent problems with an internal website not loading due to an interrupted system call. We are using urllib2 to access the website. I can't share the exact code, but here is basically how we do it:

payload = {'userName': user_name,
          'emailAddress': email_address,
          'password': password}
headers = {'Accept': 'application/json',
               'Content-Type': 'application/json',
               'Authorization': token}
values = json.dumps(payload)
req = urllib2.Request(url, values, headers)

try:
     response = urllib2.urlopen(req, timeout=30)
     break
except IOError, e:
    if e.errno != errno.EINTR:
        print e.errno
    raise

We log the errono and the raised exception. The exception is:

IOError: <urlopen error [Errno 4] Interrupted system call>

And the errno is None. I expected it to be 4.

Is there a better way to catch this error in Python 2? I am aware of PEP475, but we cannot upgrade to Python 3 right now.

Thanks,
Mike



From techtonik at gmail.com  Tue Apr 12 09:17:41 2016
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 16:17:41 +0300
Subject: [Twisted-Python] Twisted 16.1 Release Announcement
In-Reply-To: <367BC573-64FD-4694-ADA1-C78B5D45E257@atleastfornow.net>
References: <367BC573-64FD-4694-ADA1-C78B5D45E257@atleastfornow.net>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8x+CV-XBYEFrYV+Swipn4Rm_mMFH_+apB3xYOWgxDATvJg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Are there any plans to get back 32-bit wheels for Twisted?


From ganesh1pal at gmail.com  Tue Apr 12 10:12:39 2016
From: ganesh1pal at gmail.com (Ganesh Pal)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 19:42:39 +0530
Subject: sys.exit(1) vs raise SystemExit vs raise
In-Reply-To: <1460466619.3532860.576358617.719C413A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <CACT3xuUFeOXbjwiWhgZ90UMPi5xXQaj9HpxU3Aepz2Hr8Kw42Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <1460466619.3532860.576358617.719C413A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CACT3xuUA81LKZ=0e4S_5=fcX6BYfCgmJj--AkHGu4zK-Qt_DVg@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> No; raise SystemExit is equivalent to sys.exit(0); you would need raise
> SystemExit(1) to return 1.
>

Thanks will replace SystemExit with SystemExit(1) .



> Why do you want to do this, though? What do you think you gain from it?
>

 Iam trying to have a single exit point for many functions: example
 create_logdir() , create_dataset() and unittest.main() will bubble out an
exception using raise





I would want to terminate the program when this happens .



Do you see any problem if  *raise *SystemExit(1) is used in the except block ?



 *def *main():


    *try*:

        create_logdir()

        create_dataset()

        unittest.main()

    *except *Exception *as *e:

        logging.exception(e)

        *raise *SystemExit(1)





I see the below error only on pdb so thinking whats wrong in the above code
?



?*Exception AttributeError: "'NoneType' object has no attribute 'path'" in
<function _remove at 0x8017466e0> ignored ? *





(Pdb) n

SystemExit: SystemExit()

> /var/crash/local_qa/bin/corrupt_test.py(253)<module>()

-> main()

(Pdb) n

--Return--

> /var/crash/local_qa/bin/corrupt_test.py(253)<module>()->None

-> main()

(Pdb) n

Exception AttributeError: "'NoneType' object has no attribute 'path'" in
<function _remove at 0x8017466e0> ignored


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Apr 12 10:16:17 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 07:16:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Advice on Python build tools
In-Reply-To: <mailman.43.1460459461.15650.python-list@python.org>
References: <5d1ee478-ab0b-42c5-bb86-29e7a539f88d@googlegroups.com>
 <85r3ebyte7.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.43.1460459461.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <389959fb-07a5-4499-aa51-2a14f5109ada@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 at 4:41:15 PM UTC+5:30, Ben Finney wrote:
> Sayth Renshaw  writes:
> 
> > Looking at the wiki list of build tools
> > https://wiki.python.org/moin/ConfigurationAndBuildTools
> >
> > Has anyone much experience in build tools as i have no preference or
> > experience to lean on.
> 
> I'm quite fine with GNU Make, so haven't really tried a lot of others.

Do people use 'make' for websites??
As far as I know they use tools like puppet, tox, fabric etc
eg
http://www.slideshare.net/adrian_nye/a-fabricpuppet-builddeploy-system
http://www.slideshare.net/tanihito/automated-deployment-with-fabric
> 
> I am fascinated by what I've seen of Meson <URL:http://mesonbuild.com/>.
> It claims to behave very well with operating system package managers,
> which if true makes it unique among Python-based build systems.

Interesting!


From random832 at fastmail.com  Tue Apr 12 10:16:41 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 10:16:41 -0400
Subject: sys.exit(1) vs raise SystemExit vs raise
In-Reply-To: <CACT3xuUA81LKZ=0e4S_5=fcX6BYfCgmJj--AkHGu4zK-Qt_DVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACT3xuUFeOXbjwiWhgZ90UMPi5xXQaj9HpxU3Aepz2Hr8Kw42Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <1460466619.3532860.576358617.719C413A@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACT3xuUA81LKZ=0e4S_5=fcX6BYfCgmJj--AkHGu4zK-Qt_DVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1460470601.3550349.576432969.539E7584@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016, at 10:12, Ganesh Pal wrote:
> >
> >
> > No; raise SystemExit is equivalent to sys.exit(0); you would need raise
> > SystemExit(1) to return 1.
> >
> 
> Thanks will replace SystemExit with SystemExit(1) .
> 
> 
> 
> > Why do you want to do this, though? What do you think you gain from it?
> >
> 
>  Iam trying to have a single exit point for many functions: example
>  create_logdir() , create_dataset() and unittest.main() will bubble out
>  an
> exception using raise

How is this not accomplished by using sys.exit(1) in the except block?


> I would want to terminate the program when this happens .
> 
> Do you see any problem if  *raise *SystemExit(1) is used in the except
> block ?

I still don't understand what you think you gain from this.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Apr 12 15:27:34 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 12:27:34 -0700
Subject: "unable to find vcvarsall.bat"
In-Reply-To: <nehb6e$es5$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <nehb6e$es5$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <570D4C26.4040907@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/11/2016 04:15 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:

> Blog post by Steve Dower of Microsoft and CPython core developer.
> '''How to deal with the pain of ?unable to find vcvarsall.bat?'''
> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/pythonengineering/2016/04/11/unable-to-find-vcvarsall-bat/

Informative post, thanks!

--
~Ethan~



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Apr 12 16:10:43 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 16:10:43 -0400
Subject: "unable to find vcvarsall.bat"
In-Reply-To: <570D4C26.4040907@stoneleaf.us>
References: <nehb6e$es5$1@ger.gmane.org> <570D4C26.4040907@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <nejkos$3d1$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/12/2016 3:27 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 04/11/2016 04:15 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
>
>> Blog post by Steve Dower of Microsoft and CPython core developer.
>> '''How to deal with the pain of ?unable to find vcvarsall.bat?'''
>> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/pythonengineering/2016/04/11/unable-to-find-vcvarsall-bat/
>>
>
> Informative post, thanks!



-- 
Terry Jan Reedy




From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Apr 12 18:14:40 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 08:14:40 +1000
Subject: sys.exit(1) vs raise SystemExit vs raise
References: <CACT3xuUFeOXbjwiWhgZ90UMPi5xXQaj9HpxU3Aepz2Hr8Kw42Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85mvoyzd7z.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Ganesh Pal <ganesh1pal at gmail.com> writes:

> I m on python 2.7 and Linux ,  I have a simple code  need suggestion if  I
>  I could replace sys.exit(1) with raise  SystemExit .

No, but you can replace::

    sys.exit(1)

with::

    raise SystemExit(1)

As you know from reading the ?sys.exit? documentation
<URL:https://docs.python.org/3/library/sys.html#sys.exit>, ?sys.exit? is
implemented by performing ?raise SystemExit(exit_status)?. So those do
virtually the same thing.

> ==Actual code==
>
> def main():
>     try:
>         create_logdir()
>         create_dataset()
>         unittest.main()
>     except Exception as e:
>         logging.exception(e)
>         sys.exit(EXIT_STATUS_ERROR)
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     main()

This is good practice, putting the mainline code into a ?main? function,
and keeping the ?if __name__ == '__main__'? block small and obvious.

What I prefer to do is to make the ?main? function accept the
command-line arguments, and return the exit status for the program::

    def main(argv):
        exit_status = EXIT_STATUS_SUCCESS
        try:
            parse_command_line(argv)
            setup_program()
            run_program()
        except SystemExit as exc:
            exit_status = exc.code
        except Exception as exc:
            logging.exception(exc)
            exit_status = EXIT_STATUS_ERROR

        return exit_status

    if __name__ == '__main__':
        exit_status = main(sys.argv)
        sys.exit(exit_status)

That way, the ?main? function is testable like any other function:
specify the command line arguments, and receive the exit status. But the
rest of the code doesn't need to know that's happening.

-- 
 \              ?Programs must be written for people to read, and only |
  `\        incidentally for machines to execute.? ?Abelson & Sussman, |
_o__)              _Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs_ |
Ben Finney



From martin at linux-ip.net  Tue Apr 12 19:05:34 2016
From: martin at linux-ip.net (Martin A. Brown)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 16:05:34 -0700
Subject: sys.exit(1) vs raise SystemExit vs raise
In-Reply-To: <85mvoyzd7z.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <CACT3xuUFeOXbjwiWhgZ90UMPi5xXQaj9HpxU3Aepz2Hr8Kw42Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85mvoyzd7z.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604121555010.9117@qnttre.jbaqresebt.arg>


Hello all,

Apologies for this post which is fundamentally, a 'me too' post, but 
I couldn't help but chime in here.

>This is good practice, putting the mainline code into a ?main? 
>function, and keeping the ?if __name__ == '__main__'? block small 
>and obvious.
>
>What I prefer to do is to make the ?main? function accept the
>command-line arguments, and return the exit status for the program::
>
>    def main(argv):
>        exit_status = EXIT_STATUS_SUCCESS
>        try:
>            parse_command_line(argv)
>            setup_program()
>            run_program()
>        except SystemExit as exc:
>            exit_status = exc.code
>        except Exception as exc:
>            logging.exception(exc)
>            exit_status = EXIT_STATUS_ERROR
>
>        return exit_status
>
>    if __name__ == '__main__':
>        exit_status = main(sys.argv)
>        sys.exit(exit_status)
>
>That way, the ?main? function is testable like any other function: 
>specify the command line arguments, and receive the exit status. 
>But the rest of the code doesn't need to know that's happening.

This is only a riff or a variant of what Ben has written.  Here's what I like
to write:

  def run(argv):
      if program_runs_smoothly:
          return os.EX_OK
      else:
          # -- call logging, report to STDERR, or just raise an Exception
          return SOMETHING_ELSE

  def main():
      sys.exit(run(sys.argv[1:]))
  
  if __name__ == '__main__':
      main()

Why do I do this?

  * the Python program runs from CLI because [if __name__ == '__main__']
  * I can use main() as an entry point with setuptools
  * my unit testing code can pass any argv it wants to the function run()
  * the run() function never calls sys.exit(), so my tests can see what WOULD
    have been the process exit code

The only change from what Ben suggests is that, once I found os.EX_OK, I just
kept on using it, instead of difining my own EXIT_SUCCESS in every program.

Clearly, in my above example the contents of the run() function look strange.
Usually it has more different kinds of stuff in it.

Anyway, best of luck!

-Martin

-- 
Martin A. Brown
http://linux-ip.net/

From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Apr 12 19:20:21 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 09:20:21 +1000
Subject: sys.exit(1) vs raise SystemExit vs raise
References: <CACT3xuUFeOXbjwiWhgZ90UMPi5xXQaj9HpxU3Aepz2Hr8Kw42Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85mvoyzd7z.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604121555010.9117@qnttre.jbaqresebt.arg>
Message-ID: <85d1puza6i.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

"Martin A. Brown" <martin at linux-ip.net> writes:

> The only change from what Ben suggests is that, once I found os.EX_OK,
> I just kept on using it, instead of difining my own EXIT_SUCCESS in
> every program.

Ah, thank you! I was unaware of the exit-status constants in ?os?::

    The following exit codes are defined and can be used with _exit(),
    although they are not required. These are typically used for system
    programs written in Python [?]

    <URL:https://docs.python.org/3/library/os.html#os._exit>

That defines a whole lot of exit status values with mnemonic names. I
will try to make use of those instead of re-inventing them.

-- 
 \           ?Let others praise ancient times; I am glad I was born in |
  `\                                      these.? ?Ovid (43 BCE?18 CE) |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl  Tue Apr 12 19:22:15 2016
From: irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 01:22:15 +0200
Subject: real time FM synthesizer
Message-ID: <570d8325$0$5830$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

It seems that Python is fast enough [1] to create a real time FM music synthesizer
(think Yamaha DX-7). I made one that you can see here:
  https://github.com/irmen/synthesizer

The synthesizer can create various waveforms (sine, sawtooth, pulse etc.) and lets you
modify them in various ways. You can apply FM (frequency modulation), PWM (pulse-width
modulation), volume envelopes, vibrato, and reverb/echo. It is primarily based around
oscillators that are represented as generator functions in the code.
A GUI is provided that gives access to most of the features interactively, and lets you
play a tune with your created FM instrument on a piano keyboard.

You will need Python 3.x and pyaudio to be able to hear sound, and matplotlib if you
want to see graphical diagrams of generated waveforms.

I can't create nice music myself but this was a fun project to build and to learn how FM
synthesizers work internally :)



Irmen


[1]: meaning it can generate and play fairly complex waveforms based on multiple
oscillators and filters in real time in one 44.1 kHz audio channel. That is on a 3.2 ghz
machine.  With enough oscillator/filters combined however it starts to stutter and
cannot do it anymore in real time. However you can still generate those waveforms and
save them to a .wav on disk to play afterwards.  The code only uses one CPU core though
so maybe there's room for improvement.



From jasonhoneycuttmba at gmail.com  Tue Apr 12 22:57:53 2016
From: jasonhoneycuttmba at gmail.com (Jason Honeycutt)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 22:57:53 -0400
Subject: The reason I uninstalled Python 3.5.1 (32-bit) for Windows
Message-ID: <CAO2jJyQXq9Mik1Mkm5cWfa4dab5phZ6QYR4YgLA2FKzOt_ZOEA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I am providing feedback as to why I just uninstalled Python. I could not
use pip. My command line would not recognize pip.exe as a file, even though
I could see the file listed when I type "dir" in the Scripts folder.

I tried to repair Python; however, then the file did not show up at all.

I'm going to try to download the 64-bit version and see if that helps.

Kind Regards,

Jason Honeycutt


From raju.mailinglists at gmail.com  Tue Apr 12 23:36:26 2016
From: raju.mailinglists at gmail.com (kamaraju kusumanchi)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 23:36:26 -0400
Subject: hourly weather forecast data
Message-ID: <CABpbYafz+Gfww8J_=PVQ7NcHvN=o=hnU61D8YKJRKqx_XBiZCA@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a way to get hourly weather forecast data (temperature,
chance of precipitation) from the command line in Debian Linux?

Basically, I am trying to write a python program that will send myself
an email if it is going to rain at say 7:00 am the next day. The idea
is to trigger the emails only on rainy days (but not on all days).

Currently, I check for this manually at
https://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=Hackensack%2C+NJ&MR=1
. However, the website only shows graphs but does not give any data.
Checking the website every day is laborious.

raju

-- 
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi | http://raju.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Blog


From best_lay at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 13 00:24:35 2016
From: best_lay at yahoo.com (Wildman)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 23:24:35 -0500
Subject: hourly weather forecast data
References: <CABpbYafz+Gfww8J_=PVQ7NcHvN=o=hnU61D8YKJRKqx_XBiZCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.59.1460518608.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <IY6dnSGgLZieV5DKnZ2dnUU7-LednZ2d@giganews.com>

On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 23:36:26 -0400, kamaraju kusumanchi wrote:

> Is there a way to get hourly weather forecast data (temperature,
> chance of precipitation) from the command line in Debian Linux?
> 
> Basically, I am trying to write a python program that will send myself
> an email if it is going to rain at say 7:00 am the next day. The idea
> is to trigger the emails only on rainy days (but not on all days).
> 
> Currently, I check for this manually at
> https://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=Hackensack%2C+NJ&MR=1
> . However, the website only shows graphs but does not give any data.
> Checking the website every day is laborious.
> 
> raju

If you have your own weather station, there is wview and WeeWX.
Otherwise, this might be what you are looking for:

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/wct/

-- 
<Wildman> GNU/Linux user #557453
"We have to build a political consensus of that
requires people to give up a little bit of their
own... in order to create this common ground."
  -Hillary Clinton


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 00:24:36 2016
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 21:24:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: hourly weather forecast data
In-Reply-To: <mailman.59.1460518608.15650.python-list@python.org>
References: <CABpbYafz+Gfww8J_=PVQ7NcHvN=o=hnU61D8YKJRKqx_XBiZCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.59.1460518608.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <86d28a03-d7da-4760-9919-adea93077c13@googlegroups.com>


> Is there a way to get hourly weather forecast data (temperature,
> chance of precipitation) from the command line in Debian Linux?
If you Google for "weather API" you'll find several sites who give programmatic access to weather data. 


From hasandiwan+usenet at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 01:27:03 2016
From: hasandiwan+usenet at gmail.com (Hasan Diwan)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 05:27:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: hourly weather forecast data
References: <CABpbYafz+Gfww8J_=PVQ7NcHvN=o=hnU61D8YKJRKqx_XBiZCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.59.1460518608.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <86d28a03-d7da-4760-9919-adea93077c13@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <neklb7$63a$1@gioia.aioe.org>

On 2016-04-13, Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is there a way to get hourly weather forecast data (temperature,
>> chance of precipitation) from the command line in Debian Linux?

https://forecast.io may be the solution. It provides a JSON feed, which you can 
parse using jq, for example. The link you want to look at is 
https://developer.forecast.io/docs/v2. If you should need further assistance, 
post a followup or write me privately. If you do the latter, do note that I will
provide a summary for the group within a week of the first response. -- H




From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Apr 13 01:35:12 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 15:35:12 +1000
Subject: The reason I uninstalled Python 3.5.1 (32-bit) for Windows
References: <CAO2jJyQXq9Mik1Mkm5cWfa4dab5phZ6QYR4YgLA2FKzOt_ZOEA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85zisyxe9b.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Jason Honeycutt <jasonhoneycuttmba at gmail.com> writes:

> I am providing feedback as to why I just uninstalled Python.

Thank you for taking the time. I feel you should know that this is a
community discussion forum only: posting the message here is unlikely to
do anything but engage some people in discussion.

If you have enough information to suggest specific fixes that would
improve the situation, perhaps a bug report at the Python bug tracker
<URL:http://bugs.python.org/> will be more productive.

But again, only if there is enough information that people can reproduce
the problem and investigate a solution.

> I'm going to try to download the 64-bit version and see if that helps.

I wish you good hunting with that. Feel free to discuss here, but know
that this is merely a community discussion forum, not a support channel.

-- 
 \     ?Ours is a world where people don't know what they want and are |
  `\       willing to go through hell to get it.? ?Donald Robert Perry |
_o__)                                                          Marquis |
Ben Finney



From me at ixokai.io  Wed Apr 13 02:03:39 2016
From: me at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 23:03:39 -0700
Subject: hourly weather forecast data
In-Reply-To: <CABpbYafz+Gfww8J_=PVQ7NcHvN=o=hnU61D8YKJRKqx_XBiZCA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABpbYafz+Gfww8J_=PVQ7NcHvN=o=hnU61D8YKJRKqx_XBiZCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1460527419.886129.577199985.09CFB94D@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016, at 08:36 PM, kamaraju kusumanchi wrote:
> Is there a way to get hourly weather forecast data (temperature,
> chance of precipitation) from the command line in Debian Linux?

Personally, the last time I wanted to do something like this, I used the
requests library to fetch a RSS feed from Wunderground. But that was
awhile ago and I don't see the obvious RSS links banymore.

Did you see: https://www.wunderground.com/weather/api/d/docs

--
Stephen Hansen
m e @ i x o k a i . i o


From me at ixokai.io  Wed Apr 13 02:05:34 2016
From: me at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 23:05:34 -0700
Subject: The reason I uninstalled Python 3.5.1 (32-bit) for Windows
In-Reply-To: <CAO2jJyQXq9Mik1Mkm5cWfa4dab5phZ6QYR4YgLA2FKzOt_ZOEA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO2jJyQXq9Mik1Mkm5cWfa4dab5phZ6QYR4YgLA2FKzOt_ZOEA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1460527534.886330.577204729.52AB3ABA@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016, at 07:57 PM, Jason Honeycutt wrote:
> I am providing feedback as to why I just uninstalled Python. I could not
> use pip. My command line would not recognize pip.exe as a file, even
> though
> I could see the file listed when I type "dir" in the Scripts folder.

If you can't use pip while in the same directory as pip.exe, I don't
even know what is wrong.

That said, you can access pip via 'python -m pip args' instead of using
the pip executable.

--
Stephen Hansen
  m e @ i x o k a i  . i o



From martin.spichty at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 03:41:49 2016
From: martin.spichty at gmail.com (martin.spichty at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 00:41:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Serious error in int() function?
Message-ID: <52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

there may be a serious error in python's int() function:

print int(float(2.8/0.1))

yields

27

instead of 28!!

I am using Python Python 2.7.6, GCC 4.8.2 on Linux Ubuntu.

Is that known?
Best,
Martin


From marko at pacujo.net  Wed Apr 13 03:55:04 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 10:55:04 +0300
Subject: Serious error in int() function?
References: <52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87mvoyt02v.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

martin.spichty at gmail.com:

> there may be a serious error in python's int() function:
>
> print int(float(2.8/0.1))
>
> yields
>
> 27
>
> instead of 28!!

It is not an error but a normal artifact of decimal-to-binary
conversion.


Marko


From alain at universite-de-strasbourg.fr.invalid  Wed Apr 13 04:00:51 2016
From: alain at universite-de-strasbourg.fr.invalid (Alain Ketterlin)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 10:00:51 +0200
Subject: Serious error in int() function?
References: <52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87fuuqey4s.fsf@universite-de-strasbourg.fr.invalid>

martin.spichty at gmail.com writes:

> print int(float(2.8/0.1))
>
> yields
>
> 27
>
> instead of 28!!

That's how floating-point arithmetic works: look at the result of
2.8/0.1 to see why int() is correct.

> Is that known?

Yes, it is known, and correct since you use "float". See
http://floating-point-gui.de/ for a nice explanation. Use decimal
(https://docs.python.org/2/library/decimal.html) if you need exact
representations.

-- Alain.


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr 13 04:03:00 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 10:03 +0200
Subject: Serious error in int() function?
References: <52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nekufl$psi$1@ger.gmane.org>

martin.spichty at gmail.com wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> there may be a serious error in python's int() function:
> 
> print int(float(2.8/0.1))
> 
> yields
> 
> 27
> 
> instead of 28!!
> 
> I am using Python Python 2.7.6, GCC 4.8.2 on Linux Ubuntu.
> 
> Is that known?

Yes. C has the same error as has every other language that uses the floating 
point numbers supported by your computer's hardware. See

https://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/floatingpoint.html



From blindanagram at nowhere.net  Wed Apr 13 04:04:25 2016
From: blindanagram at nowhere.net (blindanagram at nowhere.net)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 09:04:25 +0100
Subject: Serious error in int() function?
In-Reply-To: <52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306@googlegroups.com>
References: <52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <570DFD89.7010808@nowhere.net>

On 13/04/2016 08:41, martin.spichty at gmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> there may be a serious error in python's int() function:
> 
> print int(float(2.8/0.1))
> 
> yields
> 
> 27
> 
> instead of 28!!
> 
> I am using Python Python 2.7.6, GCC 4.8.2 on Linux Ubuntu.
> 
> Is that known?

This arises because finite floating point arithmetic is not exact so
2.8/0.1 results in 27.999999999999996.  And, since the int() function
truncates towards zero, this results in a value of 27.

If you want the nearest integer you should use round(x) rather than int(x).



From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Wed Apr 13 04:21:07 2016
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 09:21:07 +0100
Subject: The reason I uninstalled Python 3.5.1 (32-bit) for Windows
In-Reply-To: <CAO2jJyQXq9Mik1Mkm5cWfa4dab5phZ6QYR4YgLA2FKzOt_ZOEA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO2jJyQXq9Mik1Mkm5cWfa4dab5phZ6QYR4YgLA2FKzOt_ZOEA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <570E0173.2060805@timgolden.me.uk>

On 13/04/2016 03:57, Jason Honeycutt wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am providing feedback as to why I just uninstalled Python. I could not
> use pip. My command line would not recognize pip.exe as a file, even though
> I could see the file listed when I type "dir" in the Scripts folder.
> 
> I tried to repair Python; however, then the file did not show up at all.
> 
> I'm going to try to download the 64-bit version and see if that helps.

Thanks for taking the trouble to post, Jason. We very much need to get
some better support for the 3.5 install on Windows where many things
have been changed (including the entire installation mechanism) and
which is using the bleeding edge of Visual Studio *and* WiX. However,
until we get around to that...

If you just want to get moving with Python (and you're having problems
with the 3.5 install as you are) just use the 3.4 installer -- unless
you specifically want 3.5 features.

If you definitely want the 3.5 install, and you have no joy with the
python.org installers, you might want to consider the Anaconda installer:

  https://www.continuum.io/downloads

which is built differently and (probably) doesn't have the same

Obviously we need to understand and fix our own installer issues (or at
least to document what problems are) but in the meantime I hope one of
those suggestions is fruitful for you.

TJG


From jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk  Wed Apr 13 04:41:20 2016
From: jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk (jkn)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 01:41:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: real time FM synthesizer
In-Reply-To: <570d8325$0$5830$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <570d8325$0$5830$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <e4044fa7-a7b7-41c7-ad5f-3935998b5f8d@googlegroups.com>

Hi Irmen

On Wednesday, April 13, 2016 at 12:22:25 AM UTC+1, Irmen de Jong wrote:
> It seems that Python is fast enough [1] to create a real time FM music synthesizer
> (think Yamaha DX-7). I made one that you can see here:
>   https://github.com/irmen/synthesizer
> 
> The synthesizer can create various waveforms (sine, sawtooth, pulse etc.) and lets you
> modify them in various ways. You can apply FM (frequency modulation), PWM (pulse-width
> modulation), volume envelopes, vibrato, and reverb/echo. It is primarily based around
> oscillators that are represented as generator functions in the code.
> A GUI is provided that gives access to most of the features interactively, and lets you
> play a tune with your created FM instrument on a piano keyboard.
> 
> You will need Python 3.x and pyaudio to be able to hear sound, and matplotlib if you
> want to see graphical diagrams of generated waveforms.
> 
> I can't create nice music myself but this was a fun project to build and to learn how FM
> synthesizers work internally :)
> 
> 
> 
> Irmen
> 
> 
> [1]: meaning it can generate and play fairly complex waveforms based on multiple
> oscillators and filters in real time in one 44.1 kHz audio channel. That is on a 3.2 ghz
> machine.  With enough oscillator/filters combined however it starts to stutter and
> cannot do it anymore in real time. However you can still generate those waveforms and
> save them to a .wav on disk to play afterwards.  The code only uses one CPU core though
> so maybe there's room for improvement.

This looks fantastic - I am sure I can have a lot of fun with this. Thanks for publicising.

    Regards
    Jon N


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Wed Apr 13 06:12:40 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:12:40 +0200
Subject: Enum questions.
Message-ID: <570E1B98.4080904@rece.vub.ac.be>

I have been looking at the enum documentation and it
seems enums are missing two features I rather find
important.

1) Given an Enum value, someway to get the next/previous
   one

2) Given two Enum values, iterate over the values between
   them.

Did I miss those in the documentation or are they really
missing?

-- 
Antoon.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 06:34:12 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 03:34:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Enum questions.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.67.1460542399.15650.python-list@python.org>
References: <570E1B98.4080904@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.67.1460542399.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8e3c705a-6d73-49fa-abcf-8b1197a83e5e@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 13, 2016 at 3:43:41 PM UTC+5:30, Antoon Pardon wrote:
> I have been looking at the enum documentation and it
> seems enums are missing two features I rather find
> important.
> 
> 1) Given an Enum value, someway to get the next/previous
>    one
> 
> 2) Given two Enum values, iterate over the values between
>    them.
> 
> Did I miss those in the documentation or are they really
> missing?

Given the eg in the docs:
from enum import Enum
class Color(Enum):
    red = 1
    blue = 2
    green = 3

>>> Color(Color.red.value+1)
<Color.blue: 2>

>>> for i in range(Color.red.value,Color.green.value+1):
...   print (Color(i))
... 
Color.red
Color.blue
Color.green


If you say that is clunky I wont argue :-)


From marko at pacujo.net  Wed Apr 13 06:58:10 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 13:58:10 +0300
Subject: Enum questions.
References: <570E1B98.4080904@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.67.1460542399.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <8e3c705a-6d73-49fa-abcf-8b1197a83e5e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87d1ptu665.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com>:

> Given the eg in the docs:
> from enum import Enum
> class Color(Enum):
>     red = 1
>     blue = 2
>     green = 3
>
>>>> Color(Color.red.value+1)
> <Color.blue: 2>

But:

   >>> class Color(enum.Enum):
   ...   red = 0xff0000
   ...   green = 0x00ff00
   ...   blue = 0x0000ff
   ...
   >>> Color(Color.red.value + 1)
   Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
     File "/usr/lib64/python3.4/enum.py", line 222, in __call__
       return cls.__new__(cls, value)
     File "/usr/lib64/python3.4/enum.py", line 457, in __new__
       raise ValueError("%r is not a valid %s" % (value, cls.__name__))
   ValueError: 16711681 is not a valid Color

I take it that enums in Python are identifiers only. While you can
iterate over all enums (and the definition order is preserved), it is
simply a way to operate on *all* enums.

So the answer to the OP's question is: that feature is not supported.


Marko


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Apr 13 07:51:26 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 23:51:26 +1200
Subject: Serious error in int() function?
In-Reply-To: <52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306@googlegroups.com>
References: <52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dn6q60FmpvfU1@mid.individual.net>

martin.spichty at gmail.com wrote:
> print int(float(2.8/0.1))
> 
> yields
> 
> 27
> 
> instead of 28!!

This is a consequence of the fact that the machine does
floating point arithmetic in binary, not decimal.

0.1 is not exactly representable as a binary floating
point number, and the result of the division comes out
very slightly less that 28:

 >>> 2.8/0.1
27.999999999999996

This is not unique to Python; you'll get the same
result from anything that uses the machine's native
floating point numbers.

When using floating point, you always need to be
prepared for slight inaccuracies. Usually you don't
notice them, because the results are rounded to some
reasonable number of decimal places before display.
But sometimes they show up, such as when using
int(), which truncates instead of rounding.

The best way to handle things like this depends on
the circumstances. If you tell us what you're trying
to achieve, we may be able to offer advice.

-- 
Greg


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Apr 13 07:59:09 2016
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (jmp)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 13:59:09 +0200
Subject: Enum questions.
In-Reply-To: <570E1B98.4080904@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <570E1B98.4080904@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <nelcad$puk$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 04/13/2016 12:12 PM, Antoon Pardon wrote:
> I have been looking at the enum documentation and it
> seems enums are missing two features I rather find
> important.
>
> 1) Given an Enum value, someway to get the next/previous
>     one
>
> 2) Given two Enum values, iterate over the values between
>     them.
>
> Did I miss those in the documentation or are they really
> missing?
>

 From the doc :

"While Enum and IntEnum are expected to cover the majority of use-cases, 
they cannot cover them all. Here are recipes for some different types of 
enumerations that can be used directly, or as examples for creating 
one?s own."

I would disagree with you when you state that the features you mentioned 
are important. They could be useful, in certain cases but most of your 
code would better be agnostic to the enum value.

Now it is possible that you specifically work with a system where those 
features would be really useful. As mentioned by the documentation, 
subclassing Enum is possible:

tested with python 2.7

from enum import IntEnum

class UltimateEnum(IntEnum):
	@classmethod
	def range(cls, *args):
		enumToVal = lambda e: e.value if isinstance(e, cls) else e
		return (i for i in cls if i.value in range(*map(enumToVal, args)))

	@property
	def next(self):
		it = iter(self.__class__)
		try:
			for e in it:
				if e is self: return next(it)
		except StopIteration:
			return None
		return None

class Foo(UltimateEnum):
	A = 1
	B = 4
	C = 9
	D = 28


print "first to C:"
for f in Foo.range(Foo.C):
	print f

print "B to D :"
for f in Foo.range(Foo.B, Foo.D):
	print f

print "A to D+1 with step 2 : "
for f in Foo.range(Foo.A, Foo.D.value+1, 2):
	print f

print "next property"
print Foo.A.next
print Foo.C.next
print Foo.D.next

In [1]: run test.py
first to C:
Foo.A
Foo.B
B to D :
Foo.B
Foo.C
A to D+1 with step 2 :
Foo.A
Foo.C
next property
Foo.B
Foo.D
None


Hope it helps,

jm



From michael.selik at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 08:08:42 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:08:42 +0000
Subject: Enum questions.
In-Reply-To: <570E1B98.4080904@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <570E1B98.4080904@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkPfcwamSgRFH9PwuVV4MGsnDwcZOD1=bS=7z+RWnEP0eg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016, 12:14 PM Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be>
wrote:

> I have been looking at the enum documentation and it
> seems enums are missing two features I rather find
> important.
>
> 1) Given an Enum value, someway to get the next/previous
>    one
>
> 2) Given two Enum values, iterate over the values between
>    them.
>
> Did I miss those in the documentation or are they really
> missing?
>

An Enum corresponds to "nominal" data that is coded as a number simply for
storage rather than meaning. If you want next/previous you are thinking of
"ordinal" data which is coded as numbers for the purpose of comparison (but
not arithmetic). Placing nominal data in order would be comparing apples
and oranges, so to speak.

However, IntEnum should give you the features you want.

https://docs.python.org/3/library/enum.html#intenum

>


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 08:33:00 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 05:33:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Enum questions.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.70.1460549338.15650.python-list@python.org>
References: <570E1B98.4080904@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAGgTfkPfcwamSgRFH9PwuVV4MGsnDwcZOD1=bS=7z+RWnEP0eg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.70.1460549338.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5abf839b-754b-47ed-9a5b-1d334838dd47@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 13, 2016 at 5:39:13 PM UTC+5:30, Michael Selik wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016, 12:14 PM Antoon Pardon
> wrote:
> 
> > I have been looking at the enum documentation and it
> > seems enums are missing two features I rather find
> > important.
> >
> > 1) Given an Enum value, someway to get the next/previous
> >    one
> >
> > 2) Given two Enum values, iterate over the values between
> >    them.
> >
> > Did I miss those in the documentation or are they really
> > missing?
> >
> 
> An Enum corresponds to "nominal" data that is coded as a number simply for
> storage rather than meaning. If you want next/previous you are thinking of
> "ordinal" data which is coded as numbers for the purpose of comparison (but
> not arithmetic). Placing nominal data in order would be comparing apples
> and oranges, so to speak.
> 
> However, IntEnum should give you the features you want.
> 
> https://docs.python.org/3/library/enum.html#intenum
> 
> >

from enum import Enum
# General (not contiguous) enum
class Color(Enum):
    red = 10
    blue = 20
    green = 30


>>> Color.__members__
OrderedDict([('red', <Color.red: 1>), ('blue', <Color.blue: 2>), ('green', <Color.green: 3>)])

>>> set(Color.__members__)
set(['blue', 'green', 'red'])

>>> {n:Color[n] for n in set(Color.__members__)}
{'blue': <Color.blue: 20>, 'green': <Color.green: 30>, 'red': <Color.red: 10>}
>>> 


From srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 09:18:22 2016
From: srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com (durgadevi1)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 06:18:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to XOR a byte output?
Message-ID: <387506b1-b645-4907-a45c-81a8c3043099@googlegroups.com>

Hi all, 

I have a doubt regarding a problem.

First, I am required to read a given file.


The output from the file is given below:

b'$//W?\xc0\x829\xa2\xb9\x13\x8c\xd5{\'


I used the type() to identify the class and its a byte class.

I saw many \x and thought it might be hex.


So, I used binascii.hexlify() and got the following output:
b'242f2f573fc08239a2b9138cd57b'

Now, this output is being encrypted and I need to perform an XOR operation on it in order to retrieve a secret message.

But, I'm not sure how to code the XOR operation. How do I code that?

Thank you.

PS: I'm not sure if I have done any mistake along the way. That's why I have mentioned all the steps that I've done. Let me know if I have done any step wrongly. :)


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 09:29:15 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 23:29:15 +1000
Subject: How to XOR a byte output?
In-Reply-To: <387506b1-b645-4907-a45c-81a8c3043099@googlegroups.com>
References: <387506b1-b645-4907-a45c-81a8c3043099@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpuG=ew7FPwhdtsgDyjDc8d_T8-zbWuVxZy_sUUGj+R0Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 11:18 PM, durgadevi1
<srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The output from the file is given below:
>
> b'$//W?\xc0\x829\xa2\xb9\x13\x8c\xd5{\'
>
>
> I used the type() to identify the class and its a byte class.
>
> I saw many \x and thought it might be hex.
>
>
> So, I used binascii.hexlify() and got the following output:
> b'242f2f573fc08239a2b9138cd57b'
>
> Now, this output is being encrypted and I need to perform an XOR operation on it in order to retrieve a secret message.
>
> But, I'm not sure how to code the XOR operation. How do I code that?
>

What you have is a series of bytes. They don't have any obvious
meaning right there, so you're going to have to figure out what to XOR
it with.

Let's just guess that you want to xor with the byte value 0xAA. We can
do that fairly simply, using integer operations.

>>> data = b'$//W?\xc0\x829\xa2\xb9\x13\x8c\xd5{\\'
>>> bytes(b ^ 0xAA for b in data)
b'\x8e\x85\x85\xfd\x95j(\x93\x08\x13\xb9&\x7f\xd1\xf6'

Well, that doesn't look much more intelligible. We can try a few other
byte values pretty easily:

>>> bytes(b ^ 0x17 for b in data)
b'388@(\xd7\x95.\xb5\xae\x04\x9b\xc2lK'
>>> bytes(b ^ 0x9D for b in data)
b'\xb9\xb2\xb2\xca\xa2]\x1f\xa4?$\x8e\x11H\xe6\xc1'
>>> bytes(b ^ 0xE2 for b in data)
b'\xc6\xcd\xcd\xb5\xdd"`\xdb@[\xf1n7\x99\xbe'

but it still doesn't look very promising. You're going to need to know
the key - the byte value, or sequence of byte values, to XOR with.

ChrisA


From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 09:50:33 2016
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 13:50:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Enum questions.
References: <570E1B98.4080904@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAGgTfkPfcwamSgRFH9PwuVV4MGsnDwcZOD1=bS=7z+RWnEP0eg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <nelir9$163$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2016-04-13, Michael Selik <michael.selik at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016, 12:14 PM Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
>
>> I have been looking at the enum documentation and it seems enums
>> are missing two features I rather find important.
>>
>> 1) Given an Enum value, someway to get the next/previous
>>    one
>>
>> 2) Given two Enum values, iterate over the values between
>>    them.
>>
>> Did I miss those in the documentation or are they really missing?
>
> An Enum corresponds to "nominal" data that is coded as a number
> simply for storage rather than meaning.

FWIW, as an old Pascal programmer, I too would have been surprised
that an "enum" is not ordinal and doesn't support a next/prev and
iteration.

As an old C programmer, not so much. :)

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Today, THREE WINOS
                                  at               from DETROIT sold me a
                              gmail.com            framed photo of TAB HUNTER
                                                   before his MAKEOVER!



From srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 09:51:02 2016
From: srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com (durgadevi1)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 06:51:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to XOR a byte output?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.71.1460554158.15650.python-list@python.org>
References: <387506b1-b645-4907-a45c-81a8c3043099@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmpuG=ew7FPwhdtsgDyjDc8d_T8-zbWuVxZy_sUUGj+R0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.71.1460554158.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b558f9b2-f961-4bf8-b23a-f054b996c09c@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 13, 2016 at 9:29:45 PM UTC+8, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 11:18 PM, durgadevi1
> <srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > The output from the file is given below:
> >
> > b'$//W?\xc0\x829\xa2\xb9\x13\x8c\xd5{\'
> >
> >
> > I used the type() to identify the class and its a byte class.
> >
> > I saw many \x and thought it might be hex.
> >
> >
> > So, I used binascii.hexlify() and got the following output:
> > b'242f2f573fc08239a2b9138cd57b'
> >
> > Now, this output is being encrypted and I need to perform an XOR operation on it in order to retrieve a secret message.
> >
> > But, I'm not sure how to code the XOR operation. How do I code that?
> >
> 
> What you have is a series of bytes. They don't have any obvious
> meaning right there, so you're going to have to figure out what to XOR
> it with.
> 
> Let's just guess that you want to xor with the byte value 0xAA. We can
> do that fairly simply, using integer operations.
> 
> >>> data = b'$//W?\xc0\x829\xa2\xb9\x13\x8c\xd5{\\'
> >>> bytes(b ^ 0xAA for b in data)
> b'\x8e\x85\x85\xfd\x95j(\x93\x08\x13\xb9&\x7f\xd1\xf6'
> 
> Well, that doesn't look much more intelligible. We can try a few other
> byte values pretty easily:
> 
> >>> bytes(b ^ 0x17 for b in data)
> b'388@(\xd7\x95.\xb5\xae\x04\x9b\xc2lK'
> >>> bytes(b ^ 0x9D for b in data)
> b'\xb9\xb2\xb2\xca\xa2]\x1f\xa4?$\x8e\x11H\xe6\xc1'
> >>> bytes(b ^ 0xE2 for b in data)
> b'\xc6\xcd\xcd\xb5\xdd"`\xdb@[\xf1n7\x99\xbe'
> 
> but it still doesn't look very promising. You're going to need to know
> the key - the byte value, or sequence of byte values, to XOR with.
> 
> ChrisA

Ok thank you ChrisA. :) 

I would like to check with you whether using binascii.hexlify() to convert the series of bytes into alphabets and integers is correct.


From marko at pacujo.net  Wed Apr 13 10:07:46 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 17:07:46 +0300
Subject: Enum questions.
References: <570E1B98.4080904@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAGgTfkPfcwamSgRFH9PwuVV4MGsnDwcZOD1=bS=7z+RWnEP0eg@mail.gmail.com>
 <nelir9$163$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.72.1460555456.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <878u0htxe5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com>:

> On 2016-04-13, Michael Selik <michael.selik at gmail.com> wrote:
>> An Enum corresponds to "nominal" data that is coded as a number
>> simply for storage rather than meaning.
>
> FWIW, as an old Pascal programmer, I too would have been surprised
> that an "enum" is not ordinal and doesn't support a next/prev and
> iteration.
>
> As an old C programmer, not so much. :)

>From the Pascal point of view, the "number for storage" seems odd. Why
not:

    class Color(enum.Enum):
        red = "red"
        blue = "blue"
        green = "green"

or:

    class Color(enum.Enum):
        red = object()
        blue = object()
        green = object()

or:

    class Color(enum.Enum):
        red
        blue
        green


This last one is to the point but raises a NameError.


Personally, I have not found enum.Enum all that appealing. If I have
needed such enums in my code, I have usually just defined:

    class MyClass:
        RED = "RED"
        BLUE = "BLUE"
        GREEN = "GREEN"
            

Marko


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 10:10:00 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 08:10:00 -0600
Subject: Enum questions.
In-Reply-To: <nelir9$163$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <570E1B98.4080904@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAGgTfkPfcwamSgRFH9PwuVV4MGsnDwcZOD1=bS=7z+RWnEP0eg@mail.gmail.com>
 <nelir9$163$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CALwzidk0W3_oKatrsML=LfT2jZ5ogo0edDCOMN=ON4UMOe5Evw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Grant Edwards
<grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
> FWIW, as an old Pascal programmer, I too would have been surprised
> that an "enum" is not ordinal and doesn't support a next/prev and
> iteration.

They do support iteration, but it's by order of declaration, not by value.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Apr 13 10:21:40 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 07:21:40 -0700
Subject: Enum questions.
In-Reply-To: <878u0htxe5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <570E1B98.4080904@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAGgTfkPfcwamSgRFH9PwuVV4MGsnDwcZOD1=bS=7z+RWnEP0eg@mail.gmail.com>
 <nelir9$163$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.72.1460555456.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0htxe5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <570E55F4.3050006@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/13/2016 07:07 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

>      class Color(enum.Enum):
>          red
>          blue
>          green
>
>
> This last one is to the point but raises a NameError.

Using the aenum library that last one is possible.  It also has 
NamedConstant and a metaclass-derived NamedTuple! </shameless plug>

--
~Ethan~



From marko at pacujo.net  Wed Apr 13 10:27:29 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 17:27:29 +0300
Subject: How to XOR a byte output?
References: <387506b1-b645-4907-a45c-81a8c3043099@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmpuG=ew7FPwhdtsgDyjDc8d_T8-zbWuVxZy_sUUGj+R0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.71.1460554158.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <874mb5twha.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> Let's just guess that you want to xor with the byte value 0xAA. We can
> do that fairly simply, using integer operations.
>
>>>> data = b'$//W?\xc0\x829\xa2\xb9\x13\x8c\xd5{\\'
>>>> bytes(b ^ 0xAA for b in data)
> b'\x8e\x85\x85\xfd\x95j(\x93\x08\x13\xb9&\x7f\xd1\xf6'
>
> Well, that doesn't look much more intelligible.

This looks clearer:

   >>> code = b'a0\xed\xf0Z\x15]g^\xce3x'
   >>> key = b')U\x81\x9c55*\x08,\xa2WY'
   >>> bytes(c ^ k for c, k in zip(code, key)).decode()
   'Hello world!'


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 10:31:33 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 00:31:33 +1000
Subject: How to XOR a byte output?
In-Reply-To: <b558f9b2-f961-4bf8-b23a-f054b996c09c@googlegroups.com>
References: <387506b1-b645-4907-a45c-81a8c3043099@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmpuG=ew7FPwhdtsgDyjDc8d_T8-zbWuVxZy_sUUGj+R0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.71.1460554158.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <b558f9b2-f961-4bf8-b23a-f054b996c09c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp9Q=ovPgoUsBd5ouXfC0dzmKKfpenpNe6EjSL9WzfXvA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 11:51 PM, durgadevi1
<srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok thank you ChrisA. :)
>
> I would like to check with you whether using binascii.hexlify() to convert the series of bytes into alphabets and integers is correct.

It converts the bytes (which are small integers) into the hexadecimal
representation of them (which is digits 0-9 and A-F or a-f). It's
often the easiest way to see what the byte values *are*, but it
doesn't help you much with figuring out what they *mean*.

ChrisA


From kwpolska at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 11:19:40 2016
From: kwpolska at gmail.com (Chris Warrick)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 17:19:40 +0200
Subject: Advice on Python build tools
In-Reply-To: <5d1ee478-ab0b-42c5-bb86-29e7a539f88d@googlegroups.com>
References: <5d1ee478-ab0b-42c5-bb86-29e7a539f88d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAMw+j7K7q5jmzkx0SLeYyRGzpEU8cV1XLRcdwZOa4Z9_Ffb6nQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 12 April 2016 at 11:48, Sayth Renshaw <flebber.crue at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Looking at the wiki list of build tools
> https://wiki.python.org/moin/ConfigurationAndBuildTools
>
> Has anyone much experience in build tools as i have no preference or experience to lean on.
>
> Off descriptions only i would choose invoke.
>
> My requirements, simply i want to learn and build a simple static website generator. Many i am not liking design of or are overkill so its a good opportunity to learn, logya is a good starting point for what i think a good python static generator should be.
>
> Second i want to use Jade templates (js) as i think they are more pythonic than jinja and mako so being able to have mixed js and python support would be needed.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Sayth
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Here?s a great static site generator (disclaimer, I?m a core dev over there):

https://getnikola.com/

We use doit, which is on that list. With doit, we get an existing
build system, and incremental rebuilds ? for free. I recommend you try
Nikola, and if you don?t like it and still want to build something
yourself, doit is going to be a great way to do it. That said,
incremental builds often involve trial-and-error and subtle bugs when
you start working on it. And if you don?t like doit, you can always
write your own build micro-system. Because if you want to write
something simple and minimal, an existing large build system will just
make things harder.

As for Jade templates, you can?t do that reasonably. You would need to
produce some hack to spawn a JavaScript subprocess, and it would limit
what you can use in templates. Instead, look for a template system
that is written in Python and that has similar syntax.

(also, I wouldn?t consider such weird-thing-into-real-HTML template
engines pythonic)

-- 
Chris Warrick <https://chriswarrick.com/>
PGP: 5EAAEA16


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 11:30:48 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 09:30:48 -0600
Subject: How to XOR a byte output?
In-Reply-To: <874mb5twha.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <387506b1-b645-4907-a45c-81a8c3043099@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmpuG=ew7FPwhdtsgDyjDc8d_T8-zbWuVxZy_sUUGj+R0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.71.1460554158.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <874mb5twha.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmrOy9T=4N86F6eV3RdAP+TSAKUBXZKUA1wNk3RxAXTXw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 8:27 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
>
>> Let's just guess that you want to xor with the byte value 0xAA. We can
>> do that fairly simply, using integer operations.
>>
>>>>> data = b'$//W?\xc0\x829\xa2\xb9\x13\x8c\xd5{\\'
>>>>> bytes(b ^ 0xAA for b in data)
>> b'\x8e\x85\x85\xfd\x95j(\x93\x08\x13\xb9&\x7f\xd1\xf6'
>>
>> Well, that doesn't look much more intelligible.
>
> This looks clearer:
>
>    >>> code = b'a0\xed\xf0Z\x15]g^\xce3x'
>    >>> key = b')U\x81\x9c55*\x08,\xa2WY'
>    >>> bytes(c ^ k for c, k in zip(code, key)).decode()
>    'Hello world!'

But that's not the code from the OP's post. The solution is obviously this:

>>> code = b'$//W?\xc0\x829\xa2\xb9\x13\x8c\xd5{'
>>> key = b'm\x0fC8I\xa5\xa2i\xdb\xcd{\xe3\xbbZ'
>>> bytes(c ^ k for c, k in zip(code, key)).decode()
'I love Python!'


From me+python at ixokai.io  Wed Apr 13 11:33:51 2016
From: me+python at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 08:33:51 -0700
Subject: How to XOR a byte output?
In-Reply-To: <b558f9b2-f961-4bf8-b23a-f054b996c09c@googlegroups.com>
References: <387506b1-b645-4907-a45c-81a8c3043099@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmpuG=ew7FPwhdtsgDyjDc8d_T8-zbWuVxZy_sUUGj+R0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.71.1460554158.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <b558f9b2-f961-4bf8-b23a-f054b996c09c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1460561631.1014559.577673577.65A97D80@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016, at 06:51 AM, durgadevi1 wrote:
> I would like to check with you whether using binascii.hexlify() to
> convert the series of bytes into alphabets and integers is correct.

To be clear, they already are integers.The \x notation is how you
naively represent a byte out of the printable range in ASCII. A byte is
a number from 0 to 255, which can also be thought of as 0x00 to 0xFF..
The 'printable range' is those bytes which represent normal characters
instead of control codes and such.

Computers like showing raw byte data in hex \x (which shouldn't be
confused with binascii.hexify) because then each byte concisely fills up
exactly 2 (well, 4, counting the \x) characters, instead of some bytes
being only one character (1), some being two (10), and some being three
(100).

You can see the integer value, consider:

>>> data = b'$//W?\xc0\x829\xa2\xb9\x13\x8c\xd5{\\'
>>> print data[0]
36
>>> print data[10]
19
>>> list(data)
[36, 47, 47, 87, 63, 192, 130, 57, 162, 185, 19, 140, 213, 123, 92]

binascii is almost certainly not what you want: that converts arbitrary
bytes into an ASCII encoded string, at which point its no longer bytes
(and before you did something to it besides displaying it, you'd want to
decode it back to bytes again, probably).

--Stephen
m e @ i x o k a i . i o


From ammarsalma118 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 11:53:09 2016
From: ammarsalma118 at gmail.com (salma ammar)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 16:53:09 +0100
Subject: IdentationError; unexpected indent
Message-ID: <CABcnvxeMTSBd7EpjpiguRovHebn13N71KcxvJmuik1qfM7Rn1w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am about to run this code using python 2.7. But when executing this code,
an error appears (see attachement): IdentationError; unexpected indent

What should I rectify to correct this error please?


*import sys*
*sys.path.append('C:/Users/user/src/sumo-0.22.0/tools')*
*import sumolib*
*net =
sumolib.net.readNet("C:/Users/user/src/sumo-0.22.0/tools/sumolib/net/qgislyonvelo.net.xml")*
*radius = 0*
*f = open("C:/fichierstations.txt", "r")*

*contenu = f.read()*

*print(contenu)*
*for id, lat, lon in f:*
*    x, y = net.convertLonLat2XY(lon, lat)*
*    print(x, y)*
*    edges = net.getNeighboringEdges(x, y, radius)*
*    print (edges)*
*    while len(edges) == 0:*
*        radius = radius + 10*
*  edges = net.getNeighboringEdges(x, y, radius)*
* distancesAndEdges = sorted([(dist, edge) for edge, dist in edges])*
*  print(distancesAndEdges)*
*        edgeofstation[id] = distancesAndEdges[0]*
*        print (edgeofstation[id])*
*f.close()*


Thank you in advance.


From ikorot01 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 12:02:13 2016
From: ikorot01 at gmail.com (Igor Korot)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:02:13 -0400
Subject: IdentationError; unexpected indent
In-Reply-To: <CABcnvxeMTSBd7EpjpiguRovHebn13N71KcxvJmuik1qfM7Rn1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABcnvxeMTSBd7EpjpiguRovHebn13N71KcxvJmuik1qfM7Rn1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FnnTyDm2E4W7HGR9EOew4v8fTUm7h+7f5T7+7GegWxkO5GbA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, Salma,

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 11:53 AM, salma ammar <ammarsalma118 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am about to run this code using python 2.7. But when executing this code,
> an error appears (see attachement): IdentationError; unexpected indent
>
> What should I rectify to correct this error please?
>
>
> *import sys*
> *sys.path.append('C:/Users/user/src/sumo-0.22.0/tools')*
> *import sumolib*
> *net =
> sumolib.net.readNet("C:/Users/user/src/sumo-0.22.0/tools/sumolib/net/qgislyonvelo.net.xml")*
> *radius = 0*
> *f = open("C:/fichierstations.txt", "r")*
>
> *contenu = f.read()*
>
> *print(contenu)*
> *for id, lat, lon in f:*
> *    x, y = net.convertLonLat2XY(lon, lat)*
> *    print(x, y)*
> *    edges = net.getNeighboringEdges(x, y, radius)*
> *    print (edges)*
> *    while len(edges) == 0:*
> *        radius = radius + 10*
> *  edges = net.getNeighboringEdges(x, y, radius)*
> * distancesAndEdges = sorted([(dist, edge) for edge, dist in edges])*
> *  print(distancesAndEdges)*
> *        edgeofstation[id] = distancesAndEdges[0]*
> *        print (edgeofstation[id])*
> *f.close()*

What are those '*' symbols in the e-mails?
Are they hard tabs or something else?

Please copy and paste the script from the editor.

Thank you.

>
>
> Thank you in advance.
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid  Wed Apr 13 12:02:50 2016
From: rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid (Rob Gaddi)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 16:02:50 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: IdentationError; unexpected indent
References: <CABcnvxeMTSBd7EpjpiguRovHebn13N71KcxvJmuik1qfM7Rn1w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.79.1460562813.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nelqja$oir$1@dont-email.me>

salma ammar wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am about to run this code using python 2.7. But when executing this code,
> an error appears (see attachement): IdentationError; unexpected indent
>
> What should I rectify to correct this error please?
>
>
> *import sys*
> *sys.path.append('C:/Users/user/src/sumo-0.22.0/tools')*
> *import sumolib*
> *net =
> sumolib.net.readNet("C:/Users/user/src/sumo-0.22.0/tools/sumolib/net/qgislyonvelo.net.xml")*
> *radius = 0*
> *f = open("C:/fichierstations.txt", "r")*
>
> *contenu = f.read()*
>
> *print(contenu)*
> *for id, lat, lon in f:*
> *    x, y = net.convertLonLat2XY(lon, lat)*
> *    print(x, y)*
> *    edges = net.getNeighboringEdges(x, y, radius)*
> *    print (edges)*
> *    while len(edges) == 0:*
> *        radius = radius + 10*
> *  edges = net.getNeighboringEdges(x, y, radius)*
> * distancesAndEdges = sorted([(dist, edge) for edge, dist in edges])*
> *  print(distancesAndEdges)*
> *        edgeofstation[id] = distancesAndEdges[0]*
> *        print (edgeofstation[id])*
> *f.close()*
>
>
> Thank you in advance.

Offhand, I'd say you should fix the error in your indentation, probably
at the line number that the error specifies.

Python cares about indentation, and uses it the way other languages use
braces.  Things that are at the same logical depth must be indented the
same way.  That includes the difference between tabs and spaces, which
you should NEVER EVER EVER mix and match.

-- 
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com
Email address domain is currently out of order.  See above to fix.


From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Wed Apr 13 12:04:41 2016
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 16:04:41 GMT
Subject: IdentationError; unexpected indent
Message-ID: <t6uPy.838727$hz.420469@fx42.am4>

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 16:53:09 +0100, salma ammar wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am about to run this code using python 2.7. But when executing this
> code,
> an error appears (see attachement): IdentationError; unexpected indent
> 
> What should I rectify to correct this error please?
> 
> 
> *import sys*
> *sys.path.append('C:/Users/user/src/sumo-0.22.0/tools')*
> *import sumolib*
> *net =
> sumolib.net.readNet("C:/Users/user/src/sumo-0.22.0/tools/sumolib/net/
qgislyonvelo.net.xml")*
> *radius = 0*
> *f = open("C:/fichierstations.txt", "r")*
> 
> *contenu = f.read()*
> 
> *print(contenu)*
> *for id, lat, lon in f:*
> *    x, y = net.convertLonLat2XY(lon, lat)*
> *    print(x, y)*
> *    edges = net.getNeighboringEdges(x, y, radius)*
> *    print (edges)*
> *    while len(edges) == 0:*
> *        radius = radius + 10*
> *  edges = net.getNeighboringEdges(x, y, radius)*
> * distancesAndEdges = sorted([(dist, edge) for edge, dist in edges])*
> *  print(distancesAndEdges)*
> *        edgeofstation[id] = distancesAndEdges[0]*
> *        print (edgeofstation[id])*
> *f.close()*
> 
> 
> Thank you in advance.

correct the indentation for the line that is listed in the traceback
(this may possibly be due to mixing tabs and spaces)

for more detailed help please post a usable copy of the code (without the 
leading & trailing '8' characters on each line) and a full copy of the 
traceback






-- 
I brought my BOWLING BALL -- and some DRUGS!!


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 12:05:50 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 10:05:50 -0600
Subject: IdentationError; unexpected indent
In-Reply-To: <CABcnvxeMTSBd7EpjpiguRovHebn13N71KcxvJmuik1qfM7Rn1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABcnvxeMTSBd7EpjpiguRovHebn13N71KcxvJmuik1qfM7Rn1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkqKNx7-ngKf7hMsOVpcusCTieENFVv74T-Y4WvpECUww@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 9:53 AM, salma ammar <ammarsalma118 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am about to run this code using python 2.7. But when executing this code,
> an error appears (see attachement): IdentationError; unexpected indent
>
> What should I rectify to correct this error please?

First of all, please post your code exactly as you're trying to run
it. All those asterisks make it harder to read and also create doubts
about what other changes might have been introduced in the process of
being posted.

Second, read the error message. It tells you what the problem is:
unexpected indent. It should also tell you exactly line the error
occurs on, but you didn't include that part of the error message in
your post, so we can't help you there. Next time, please post the
entire error message, including the traceback.

> *  edges = net.getNeighboringEdges(x, y, radius)*
> * distancesAndEdges = sorted([(dist, edge) for edge, dist in edges])*
> *  print(distancesAndEdges)*
> *        edgeofstation[id] = distancesAndEdges[0]*
> *        print (edgeofstation[id])*

That said, these five lines all appear to have inconsistent
indentation with the preceding. I don't know what the intent was, but
you should correct the indentation of these lines.


From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Wed Apr 13 12:15:28 2016
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 16:15:28 GMT
Subject: How to XOR a byte output?
References: <387506b1-b645-4907-a45c-81a8c3043099@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <AguPy.838728$hz.468617@fx42.am4>

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 06:18:22 -0700, durgadevi1 wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I have a doubt regarding a problem.
> 
No, you have a question doubt means you don't believe something
(sorry I know this is not an English language lesson)
 
> First, I am required to read a given file.
> 
> 
> The output from the file is given below:
> 
> b'$//W?\xc0\x829\xa2\xb9\x13\x8c\xd5{\'
> 
> 
> I used the type() to identify the class and its a byte class.
> 
correct  it is a string o bytes & bytes that do not have a dispalyable 
ASCI character are shown using the \x<hex> format
> I saw many \x and thought it might be hex.
> 
> 
> So, I used binascii.hexlify() and got the following output:
> b'242f2f573fc08239a2b9138cd57b'
> 
> Now, this output is being encrypted and I need to perform an XOR
> operation on it in order to retrieve a secret message.
> 
No you ned to perform the Xor operation on the original bytes hexifying 
the string will not help you (it will actual make the situation worse)

> But, I'm not sure how to code the XOR operation. How do I code that?

without completing your homework for you, the principle is

step through each byte in turn
perform the XOR function 
add the result to a new byte string.

if  you are using the correct xor value hopefully you will get a readable 
output.

> 
> Thank you.
> 
> PS: I'm not sure if I have done any mistake along the way. That's why I
> have mentioned all the steps that I've done. Let me know if I have done
> any step wrongly. :)

indeed this has been better written than most homework assistance 
requests posted here that simply want a solution, but mentioning it is 
homework would be better still.




-- 
Don't let your status become too quo!


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 12:33:31 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 10:33:31 -0600
Subject: English dialect (Was: How to XOR a byte output?)
Message-ID: <CALwzid=tLUg8G1m=zMo-ugqk5vcKx2kENk3_HGfZHzF0e=NCDQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:15 AM, alister <alister.ware at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 06:18:22 -0700, durgadevi1 wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I have a doubt regarding a problem.
>>
> No, you have a question doubt means you don't believe something
> (sorry I know this is not an English language lesson)

No, this is a difference in dialect.

http://www.amritt.com/india-english-dictionary/?term=doubt

That it's not used this way in other parts of the English-speaking
world does not make it any more incorrect than Americans referring to
chips as "french fries".


From robin at reportlab.com  Wed Apr 13 12:51:05 2016
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 17:51:05 +0100
Subject: sum accuracy
Message-ID: <570E78F9.8050409@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Does anyone know if sum does anything special to try and improve accuracy? My 
simple tests seem to show it is exactly equivalent to a for loop summation.
-- 
Robin Becker



From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Wed Apr 13 12:57:26 2016
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 19:57:26 +0300
Subject: sum accuracy
References: <570E78F9.8050409@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <mailman.83.1460566278.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lf5a8kx4fbd.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Robin Becker writes:

> Does anyone know if sum does anything special to try and improve
> accuracy? My simple tests seem to show it is exactly equivalent to a
> for loop summation.

You want math.fsum.


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr 13 12:59:42 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 18:59:42 +0200
Subject: [OT] A doubt about a doubt, was Re: How to XOR a byte output?
References: <387506b1-b645-4907-a45c-81a8c3043099@googlegroups.com>
 <AguPy.838728$hz.468617@fx42.am4>
Message-ID: <neltu0$en2$1@ger.gmane.org>

alister wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 06:18:22 -0700, durgadevi1 wrote:
> 
>> I have a doubt regarding a problem.
>> 
> No, you have a question doubt means you don't believe something
> (sorry I know this is not an English language lesson)

"doubt" is commonly used that way in Indian English, see

http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/2429/can-doubt-sometimes-mean-question




From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr 13 13:03:06 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 19:03:06 +0200
Subject: sum accuracy
References: <570E78F9.8050409@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <nelu4b$en2$2@ger.gmane.org>

Robin Becker wrote:

> Does anyone know if sum does anything special to try and improve accuracy?
> My simple tests seem to show it is exactly equivalent to a for loop
> summation.

If you are worried about accuracy and your values are floating point numbers 
use math.fsum():

"""
fsum(...)
    fsum(iterable)
    
    Return an accurate floating point sum of values in the iterable.
    Assumes IEEE-754 floating point arithmetic.
"""



From random832 at fastmail.com  Wed Apr 13 13:05:10 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 13:05:10 -0400
Subject: sum accuracy
In-Reply-To: <570E78F9.8050409@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
References: <570E78F9.8050409@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1460567110.3933817.577783969.165F6097@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016, at 12:51, Robin Becker wrote:
> Does anyone know if sum does anything special to try and improve
> accuracy? My 
> simple tests seem to show it is exactly equivalent to a for loop
> summation.

No, it doesn't. Sum works on any type that can be added (except
strings), it can't make any assumptions about the characteristics of
floating point types. For non-numeric types, the addition operator may
not be semantically commutative or associative.

Look at
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/393090-binary-floating-point-summation-accurate-to-full-p/
for an example of a more accurate algorithm, but note that, for example,
this algorithm wouldn't work on complex numbers (you'd have to sum the
real and imaginary components separately)


From hasandiwan+usenet at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 15:33:51 2016
From: hasandiwan+usenet at gmail.com (Hasan Diwan)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 19:33:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: hourly weather forecast data
References: <CABpbYafz+Gfww8J_=PVQ7NcHvN=o=hnU61D8YKJRKqx_XBiZCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1460527419.886129.577199985.09CFB94D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.63.1460530514.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nem6uu$qe8$1@gioia.aioe.org>

On 2016-04-13, Stephen Hansen <me at ixokai.io> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016, at 08:36 PM, kamaraju kusumanchi wrote:
>> Is there a way to get hourly weather forecast data (temperature,
>> chance of precipitation) from the command line in Debian Linux?
>
> Personally, the last time I wanted to do something like this, I used the
> requests library to fetch a RSS feed from Wunderground. But that was
> awhile ago and I don't see the obvious RSS links banymore.
>
> Did you see: https://www.wunderground.com/weather/api/d/docs

rssweather.com is the site to get RSS feeds for weather.


From p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt  Wed Apr 13 16:10:25 2016
From: p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 21:10:25 +0100
Subject: Append/Replace a row in a pandas DataFrame
Message-ID: <nem93h$u85$1@gioia.aioe.org>

Hi all.
I am learning pandas DataFrame and I want to add (eventually replace by
index) some rows.
For adding here is what I tried:

>df = pd.DataFrame(np.random.randn(6,4), index=dates, columns=list('ABCD'))

>df
                   A         B         C         D
2013-01-01 -0.111621  1.126761 -2.420517  0.660948
2013-01-02 -0.243397 -0.975684 -0.679209 -0.656913
2013-01-03  0.405816  0.478353  0.621906 -0.262615
2013-01-04 -0.380249  0.416711 -0.906286  1.828339
2013-01-05  0.772747  0.993784  0.452746  1.665306
2013-01-06  0.535011 -0.662874  1.504281  0.543537

[6 rows x 4 columns]

>dft=pd.DataFrame([[1,2,3,4]],
index=[datetime.date(2016,1,12)],columns=df.columns)

>dft
            A  B  C  D
2016-01-12  1  2  3  4

[1 rows x 4 columns]

>pd.concat([df,dft])
Out[71]:
                            A         B         C         D
2013-01-01 00:00:00 -0.111621  1.126761 -2.420517  0.660948
2013-01-02 00:00:00 -0.243397 -0.975684 -0.679209 -0.656913
2013-01-03 00:00:00  0.405816  0.478353  0.621906 -0.262615
2013-01-04 00:00:00 -0.380249  0.416711 -0.906286  1.828339
2013-01-05 00:00:00  0.772747  0.993784  0.452746  1.665306
2013-01-06 00:00:00  0.535011 -0.662874  1.504281  0.543537
2016-01-12           1.000000  2.000000  3.000000  4.000000

[7 rows x 4 columns]

Why am I getting the second column?!

How do I do to have a row replaced instead of added if its date (index)
is an existent one?

Thanks for any help or comments.
Paulo


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Apr 13 17:13:06 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 14:13:06 -0700
Subject: Enum questions.
In-Reply-To: <570E55F4.3050006@stoneleaf.us>
References: <570E1B98.4080904@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAGgTfkPfcwamSgRFH9PwuVV4MGsnDwcZOD1=bS=7z+RWnEP0eg@mail.gmail.com>
 <nelir9$163$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.72.1460555456.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0htxe5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <570E55F4.3050006@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <570EB662.6070803@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/13/2016 07:21 AM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 04/13/2016 07:07 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>
>>      class Color(enum.Enum):
>>          red
>>          blue
>>          green
>>
>>
>> This last one is to the point but raises a NameError.
>
> Using the aenum library that last one is possible.  It also has
> NamedConstant and a metaclass-derived NamedTuple! </shameless plug>

Oh, and to keep it mostly safe, the magic that creates the missing names 
is turned off as soon as something real happens, like creating a 
property or a method.

--
~Ethan~



From irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl  Wed Apr 13 19:21:28 2016
From: irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 01:21:28 +0200
Subject: real time FM synthesizer
In-Reply-To: <e4044fa7-a7b7-41c7-ad5f-3935998b5f8d@googlegroups.com>
References: <570d8325$0$5830$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
 <e4044fa7-a7b7-41c7-ad5f-3935998b5f8d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <570ed475$0$5814$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

On 13-4-2016 10:41, jkn wrote:
> Hi Irmen
> 
> On Wednesday, April 13, 2016 at 12:22:25 AM UTC+1, Irmen de Jong wrote:
>> It seems that Python is fast enough [1] to create a real time FM music synthesizer
>> (think Yamaha DX-7). I made one that you can see here:
>>   https://github.com/irmen/synthesizer
>>
[...]
> 
> This looks fantastic - I am sure I can have a lot of fun with this. Thanks for publicising.

Happy to hear you like it.
I made a few small gui updates tonight.

I think I'll let it rest for a while now but I still have two ideas I might add in the
future:
- maybe you want to save and load your settings so you can persist your sound creations
- it would be nice if you can join the synthesizer with the rhythm pattern mixer i.e.
play over a drum loop or something like that.


Irmen



From p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt  Wed Apr 13 21:22:51 2016
From: p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:22:51 +0100
Subject: Append/Replace a row in a pandas DataFrame [SOLVED]
References: <nem93h$u85$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <nemrd8$1m8k$1@gioia.aioe.org>

?s 21:10 de 13-04-2016, Paulo da Silva escreveu:
> Hi all.
...

> [6 rows x 4 columns]
> 
>> dft=pd.DataFrame([[1,2,3,4]],
> index=[datetime.date(2016,1,12)],columns=df.columns)
> 
>> dft
>             A  B  C  D
> 2016-01-12  1  2  3  4
> 
> [1 rows x 4 columns]
> 
>> pd.concat([df,dft])
> Out[71]:
>                             A         B         C         D
> 2013-01-01 00:00:00 -0.111621  1.126761 -2.420517  0.660948
> 2013-01-02 00:00:00 -0.243397 -0.975684 -0.679209 -0.656913
> 2013-01-03 00:00:00  0.405816  0.478353  0.621906 -0.262615
> 2013-01-04 00:00:00 -0.380249  0.416711 -0.906286  1.828339
> 2013-01-05 00:00:00  0.772747  0.993784  0.452746  1.665306
> 2013-01-06 00:00:00  0.535011 -0.662874  1.504281  0.543537
> 2016-01-12           1.000000  2.000000  3.000000  4.000000
> 
> [7 rows x 4 columns]
> 
> Why am I getting the second column?!
I need to use for example pd.datetime instead of datetime.date. In fact
there is no extra col but the inclusion of hour in the index.
Still don't understand why!

> 
> How do I do to have a row replaced instead of added if its date (index)
> is an existent one?
df.loc[<the index>]=<the new/replacement list/tuple line>

Paulo



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 21:54:32 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 18:54:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [OT] A doubt about a doubt, was Re: How to XOR a byte output?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.84.1460566792.15650.python-list@python.org>
References: <387506b1-b645-4907-a45c-81a8c3043099@googlegroups.com>
 <AguPy.838728$hz.468617@fx42.am4> <neltu0$en2$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.84.1460566792.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0c3cfac3-2e66-4341-ab51-1517cb13f1a4@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 13, 2016 at 10:30:07 PM UTC+5:30, Peter Otten wrote:
> alister wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 06:18:22 -0700, durgadevi1 wrote:
> > 
> >> I have a doubt regarding a problem.
> >> 
> > No, you have a question doubt means you don't believe something
> > (sorry I know this is not an English language lesson)
> 
> "doubt" is commonly used that way in Indian English, see
> 
> http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/2429/can-doubt-sometimes-mean-question

I have a doubt:
Is it incorrect to correct someone when they are incorrect?

[Sprinkle a "politically" on the above to taste <Wink>]


From walters.justin01 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 22:37:13 2016
From: walters.justin01 at gmail.com (justin walters)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 19:37:13 -0700
Subject: Looking for feedback on weighted voting algorithm
Message-ID: <CAO1D73EFoLoJm=4shNfgEsJinGHrM82J_BsTRMnm7XX4tW1h+A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I'm looking for feedback on the below vote weighting algorithm which
includes sample input. This is written in Python3.

def weight(votes):
    """
    Takes a list of tuples in the form of '(vote %, weight)' where vote %
is the
    rating that a user gave and weight is the number of votes it counts as.

    Returns the average score based on votes and vote weight.
    """

    sum_of_votes = 0

    num_of_votes = 0

    for vote, weight in votes:

        sum_of_votes += vote * weight
        num_of_votes += weight

    score = sum_of_votes/num_of_votes

    return score


if __name__ == '__main__':

    votes = [(72, 4), (96, 3), (48, 2), (53, 1), (26, 4), (31, 3), (68, 2),
(91, 1)]

    print(weight(votes))


Specifically, I'm wondering if this is a good algorithm for weighted
voting. Essentially a vote is weighted by the number of votes it counts as.
I realize that this is an extremely simple algorithm, but I was wondering
if anyone had suggestions on how to improve it. Thank you for your time.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Apr 13 23:25:14 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 13:25:14 +1000
Subject: Convert input to upper case on screen as it is typed
Message-ID: <85oa9cyiqt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

How can my Python program convert the user's keyboard input to upper
case, as though the user has CAPS LOCK enabled?

I want to emulate a program running on a computer which doesn't have any
lower-case letters (i.e. a character set more limited than ASCII).

The text input, typed interactively by the user at the keyboard, should
be forced to upper case in real time as though that's what the user
typed.

The command line interface could use Python's standard ?cmd? library, or
something else. The conversion could be done by a custom input stream,
or some other way.

I am not interested in completely re-implementing the
character-by-character input system; for example, I would like to
continue making use of readline if it is available. I only want to
translate the resulting stream as it appears visually and as it comes
into the program.

Especially important is that the interface should appear visibly
indistinguishable from someone actually typing upper case text; the
display should only ever show the user's input as the upper case text
the program will process.

-- 
 \           ?It ain't so much the things we don't know that get us in |
  `\    trouble. It's the things we know that ain't so.? ?Artemus Ward |
_o__)                                     (1834?1867), U.S. journalist |
Ben Finney



From dan at tombstonezero.net  Thu Apr 14 00:16:51 2016
From: dan at tombstonezero.net (Dan Sommers)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 04:16:51 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Convert input to upper case on screen as it is typed
References: <85oa9cyiqt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.90.1460604334.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nen5jj$hvi$1@dont-email.me>

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 13:25:14 +1000, Ben Finney wrote:

> How can my Python program convert the user's keyboard input to upper
> case, as though the user has CAPS LOCK enabled?

I don't know which OS you're using, but if I run "stty olcuc" in my
Linux shell, then the input driver does that for me.  (Be careful; it's
tricky at that point to "fix" your shell.)

HTH,
Dan


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Apr 14 01:17:24 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 15:17:24 +1000
Subject: Convert input to upper case on screen as it is typed
References: <85oa9cyiqt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.90.1460604334.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <nen5jj$hvi$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <85k2k0ydjv.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Dan Sommers <dan at tombstonezero.net> writes:

> On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 13:25:14 +1000, Ben Finney wrote:
>
> > How can my Python program convert the user's keyboard input to upper
> > case, as though the user has CAPS LOCK enabled?
>
> I don't know which OS you're using, but if I run "stty olcuc" in my
> Linux shell, then the input driver does that for me.

Thanks for the suggestion. I need a solution that is specific to the
Python program: it should only affect this program, and should not need
anything special done to the terminal when invoking the program.

-- 
 \            ?The whole area of [treating source code as intellectual |
  `\    property] is almost assuring a customer that you are not going |
_o__)               to do any innovation in the future.? ?Gary Barnett |
Ben Finney



From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Apr 14 02:35:05 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 18:35:05 +1200
Subject: Convert input to upper case on screen as it is typed
In-Reply-To: <mailman.92.1460611058.15650.python-list@python.org>
References: <85oa9cyiqt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.90.1460604334.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <nen5jj$hvi$1@dont-email.me> <85k2k0ydjv.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.92.1460611058.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dn8s0rF84o0U1@mid.individual.net>

Ben Finney wrote:
> I need a solution that is specific to the
> Python program: it should only affect this program, and should not need
> anything special done to the terminal when invoking the program.

You might be able to do something with the termios module
to put the tty driver into the appropriate mode.

If you do that, you'll have to be careful to set it back
again before the program exits for any reason, otherwise
your shell session will be messed up.

-- 
Greg


From garastog at cisco.com  Thu Apr 14 02:43:46 2016
From: garastog at cisco.com (Gaurav Rastogi -X (garastog - ARICENT TECHNOLOGIES MAURIITIUS LIMITED
 at Cisco))
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 06:43:46 +0000
Subject: Query regarding python 2.7.11 release
Message-ID: <f41d232e4bb54ee0a51f9378c62df98e@XCH-RTP-019.cisco.com>

Hi,

We are currently using Python 2.6.7 in our product.
We have received below vulnerabilities from field:

CVE-2014-7185

Integer overflow in bufferobject.c in Python before 2.7.8 allows context-dependent attackers to
obtain sensitive information from process memory via a large size and offset in a "buffer" function.

CVE-2013-1752

python: multiple unbound readline() DoS flaws in python stdlib

CVE-2014-1912

python: buffer overflow in socket.recvfrom_into()

CVE-2014-4650

It was discovered that the CGIHTTPServer module incorrectly handled URL encoded paths.
A remote attacker could use this flaw to execute scripts outside of the cgi-bin directory, or disclose source of scripts in the cgi-bin directory


Currently I can see the 2.7.11 is the latest release as per the below link:
https://www.python.org/downloads/

Could you please suggest if the above mentioned vulnerabilities are resolved in the latest release?

Regards
Gaurav


From nomail at com.invalid  Thu Apr 14 02:52:25 2016
From: nomail at com.invalid (ast)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:52:25 +0200
Subject: Serious error in int() function?
In-Reply-To: <52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306@googlegroups.com>
References: <52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <570f3e30$0$665$426a74cc@news.free.fr>


<martin.spichty at gmail.com> a ?crit dans le message de 
news:52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306 at googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> there may be a serious error in python's int() function:
>
> print int(float(2.8/0.1))
>
> yields
>
> 27
>
> instead of 28!!
>
> I am using Python Python 2.7.6, GCC 4.8.2 on Linux Ubuntu.
>
> Is that known?
> Best,
> Martin


I have a similar question, so I post my message here.
Hope this will not annoy the OP


Is it sure that the square root of a square number is always
an integer ?

I would not like to get a result as 345.99999999

from math import sqrt

>>>sqrt(16)
4.0
>>> sqrt(16).is_integer()
True

>>> for n in range(1000000):
...         if not sqrt(n**2).is_integer():
...             print(sqrt(n**2))

it seems to work ... but does it work for all integers ?

 



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr 14 03:11:38 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 09:11:38 +0200
Subject: Append/Replace a row in a pandas DataFrame [SOLVED]
References: <nem93h$u85$1@gioia.aioe.org> <nemrd8$1m8k$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <nenfrc$1bk$1@ger.gmane.org>

Paulo da Silva wrote:

> ?s 21:10 de 13-04-2016, Paulo da Silva escreveu:
>> Hi all.
> ...
> 
>> [6 rows x 4 columns]
>> 
>>> dft=pd.DataFrame([[1,2,3,4]],
>> index=[datetime.date(2016,1,12)],columns=df.columns)
>> 
>>> dft
>>             A  B  C  D
>> 2016-01-12  1  2  3  4
>> 
>> [1 rows x 4 columns]
>> 
>>> pd.concat([df,dft])
>> Out[71]:
>>                             A         B         C         D
>> 2013-01-01 00:00:00 -0.111621  1.126761 -2.420517  0.660948
>> 2013-01-02 00:00:00 -0.243397 -0.975684 -0.679209 -0.656913
>> 2013-01-03 00:00:00  0.405816  0.478353  0.621906 -0.262615
>> 2013-01-04 00:00:00 -0.380249  0.416711 -0.906286  1.828339
>> 2013-01-05 00:00:00  0.772747  0.993784  0.452746  1.665306
>> 2013-01-06 00:00:00  0.535011 -0.662874  1.504281  0.543537
>> 2016-01-12           1.000000  2.000000  3.000000  4.000000
>> 
>> [7 rows x 4 columns]
>> 
>> Why am I getting the second column?!
> I need to use for example pd.datetime instead of datetime.date. In fact
> there is no extra col but the inclusion of hour in the index.
> Still don't understand why!

It looks like handling of datetime objects is specialised

>>> pd.DataFrame([[1,2]], index=[datetime.datetime.now()], columns=["foo", 
"bar"]).index
<class 'pandas.tseries.index.DatetimeIndex'>
[2016-04-14 08:51:09.192283]
Length: 1, Freq: None, Timezone: None

and assumes the "all-midnight" case to mean that no time of day was provided 
whereas date is handled like a generic object

>>> pd.DataFrame([[1,2]], index=[datetime.date.today()], columns=["foo", 
"bar"]).index
Index([2016-04-14], dtype='object')

and triggers usage of the string conversion provided by the entries.
For datetime this includes the time that you mistook for an extra column.

>>> str(datetime.datetime(2010, 12, 21))
'2010-12-21 00:00:00'
>>> str(datetime.date(2010, 12, 21))
'2010-12-21'

>> How do I do to have a row replaced instead of added if its date (index)
>> is an existent one?
> df.loc[<the index>]=<the new/replacement list/tuple line>
> 
> Paulo
> 




From auriocus at gmx.de  Thu Apr 14 03:25:38 2016
From: auriocus at gmx.de (Christian Gollwitzer)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 09:25:38 +0200
Subject: Serious error in int() function?
In-Reply-To: <570f3e30$0$665$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306@googlegroups.com>
 <570f3e30$0$665$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <nengf9$g4t$1@dont-email.me>

Am 14.04.16 um 08:52 schrieb ast:
> Is it sure that the square root of a square number is always
> an integer ?

Mathematically, yes.

> I would not like to get a result as 345.99999999
>
> from math import sqrt
>
>>>> sqrt(16)
> 4.0
>>>> sqrt(16).is_integer()
> True
>
>>>> for n in range(1000000):
> ...         if not sqrt(n**2).is_integer():
> ...             print(sqrt(n**2))
>
> it seems to work ... but does it work for all integers ?


No. sqrt uses floating point arithmetic, which in Python uses IEEE 64 
bit floating point math (the C double type). This has 53 bits of 
mantissa, that means if your square is larger than 2^53, and does not 
contain only powers of two in addition, the square root will be off.

But the good news is that there are integer square root algorithms. 
Since Python supports arbitrary large integers, you can use one of those.

An isqrt implementation wa discussed here recently:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.python/70D5yVj7mIY

	Christian


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr 14 03:46:53 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 09:46:53 +0200
Subject: Accuracy of math.sqrt(), was Re: Serious error in int() function?
References: <52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306@googlegroups.com>
 <570f3e30$0$665$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <nenhtf$1o6$1@ger.gmane.org>

ast wrote:

> 
> <martin.spichty at gmail.com> a ?crit dans le message de
> news:52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306 at googlegroups.com...
>> Hi,
>>
>> there may be a serious error in python's int() function:
>>
>> print int(float(2.8/0.1))
>>
>> yields
>>
>> 27
>>
>> instead of 28!!
>>
>> I am using Python Python 2.7.6, GCC 4.8.2 on Linux Ubuntu.
>>
>> Is that known?
>> Best,
>> Martin
> 
> 
> I have a similar question, so I post my message here.
> Hope this will not annoy the OP

Well, you "annoy" me ;)

Would you please always take the time to come up with a subject line that 
matches your question. You should also start a new thread.

> Is it sure that the square root of a square number is always
> an integer ?
> 
> I would not like to get a result as 345.99999999
> 
> from math import sqrt
> 
>>>>sqrt(16)
> 4.0
>>>> sqrt(16).is_integer()
> True
> 
>>>> for n in range(1000000):
> ...         if not sqrt(n**2).is_integer():
> ...             print(sqrt(n**2))
> 
> it seems to work ... but does it work for all integers ?

Even if you get an integer it may not be the one you are expecting:

>>> sqrt((10**22)**2) == 10**22
True
>>> sqrt((10**23)**2) == 10**23
False
>>> sqrt((10**23)**2).is_integer()
True
>>> int(sqrt((10**23)**2))
99999999999999991611392




From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Apr 14 03:53:20 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 17:53:20 +1000
Subject: Convert input to upper case on screen as it is typed
References: <85oa9cyiqt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.90.1460604334.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <nen5jj$hvi$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <85bn5cy6bz.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Dan Sommers <dan at tombstonezero.net> writes:

> I don't know which OS you're using, but if I run "stty olcuc" in my
> Linux shell, then the input driver does that for me.


Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz> writes:

> You might be able to do something with the termios module
> to put the tty driver into the appropriate mode.
>
> If you do that, you'll have to be careful to set it back
> again before the program exits for any reason, otherwise
> your shell session will be messed up.


Thank you both.

Okay, ?termios.tcgetattr? will let me preserve the attributes, and with
Dan Sommers's suggestion of which attribute to use, I may have a shot at
setting the terminal attributes.

Then with a top-level exception handler I can clean up by restoring the
saved attributes with ?termios.tcsetattr?.

I will investigate along those lines.

-- 
 \       ?Some people have a problem, and they think ?I know, I'll use |
  `\     Perl!?. Now they have some number of problems but they're not |
_o__)     sure whether it's a string or an integer.? ?Benno Rice, 2011 |
Ben Finney



From blindanagram at nowhere.net  Thu Apr 14 03:59:11 2016
From: blindanagram at nowhere.net (blindanagram at nowhere.net)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:59:11 +0100
Subject: Serious error in int() function?
In-Reply-To: <570f3e30$0$665$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306@googlegroups.com>
 <570f3e30$0$665$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <Kr2dnVKiXPpT0JLKnZ2dnUU78TXNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>

On 14/04/2016 07:52, ast wrote:
> 
> <martin.spichty at gmail.com> a ?crit dans le message de
> news:52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306 at googlegroups.com...
>> Hi,
>>
>> there may be a serious error in python's int() function:
>>
>> print int(float(2.8/0.1))
>>
>> yields
>>
>> 27
>>
>> instead of 28!!
>>
>> I am using Python Python 2.7.6, GCC 4.8.2 on Linux Ubuntu.
>>
>> Is that known?
>> Best,
>> Martin
> 
> 
> I have a similar question, so I post my message here.
> Hope this will not annoy the OP
> 
> 
> Is it sure that the square root of a square number is always
> an integer ?
> 
> I would not like to get a result as 345.99999999
> 
> from math import sqrt
> 
>>>> sqrt(16)
> 4.0
>>>> sqrt(16).is_integer()
> True
> 
>>>> for n in range(1000000):
> ...         if not sqrt(n**2).is_integer():
> ...             print(sqrt(n**2))
> 
> it seems to work ... but does it work for all integers ?

Assuming that IEEE 754 floating point arithmetic is being used, the
sqrt() function will return an exact integer square root for square
integers provided that the square root is exactly representable.

This means that the result will be correct provided it has 53 or less
bits - just short of 16 decimal digits (i.e for square numbers with less
than 32 digits).

With an integer square root function (isqrt), this program:

for exp in count(20):
  v = 2 ** exp - 1
  if isqrt(v) != sqrt(v):
    print(exp, isqrt(v), sqrt(v))
    break

terminates with:

  54 18014398509481983 1.8014398509481982e+16

showing a first error for a 54 bit square root



From blindanagram at nowhere.net  Thu Apr 14 04:13:46 2016
From: blindanagram at nowhere.net (blindanagram at nowhere.net)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 09:13:46 +0100
Subject: Serious error in int() function?
In-Reply-To: <Kr2dnVKiXPpT0JLKnZ2dnUU78TXNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
References: <52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306@googlegroups.com>
 <570f3e30$0$665$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
 <Kr2dnVKiXPpT0JLKnZ2dnUU78TXNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
Message-ID: <zNSdna8abKekzJLKnZ2dnUU78fHNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>

On 14/04/2016 08:59, blindanagram at nowhere.net wrote:
> On 14/04/2016 07:52, ast wrote:

> This means that the result will be correct provided it has 53 or less
> bits - just short of 16 decimal digits (i.e for square numbers with less
> than 32 digits).
> 
> With an integer square root function (isqrt), this program:
> 
> for exp in count(20):
>   v = 2 ** exp - 1
>   if isqrt(v) != sqrt(v):
>     print(exp, isqrt(v), sqrt(v))
>     break
> 
> terminates with:
> 
>   54 18014398509481983 1.8014398509481982e+16
> 
> showing a first error for a 54 bit square root
> 
I should also have said that the square root of integer squares with
between 15 and 30 decimal digits will only be correct if the square
numbers themselves are exactly representable in 53 bits.  So we can
expect failures for squares with 16 or more digits.





From srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 04:32:38 2016
From: srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com (durgadevi1)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 01:32:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to XOR a byte output?
In-Reply-To: <387506b1-b645-4907-a45c-81a8c3043099@googlegroups.com>
References: <387506b1-b645-4907-a45c-81a8c3043099@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <625b8dac-16df-4075-ae4e-4344c1c5a4d3@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 13, 2016 at 9:18:37 PM UTC+8, durgadevi1 wrote:
> Hi all, 
> 
> I have a doubt regarding a problem.
> 
> First, I am required to read a given file.
> 
> 
> The output from the file is given below:
> 
> b'$//W?\xc0\x829\xa2\xb9\x13\x8c\xd5{\'
> 
> 
> I used the type() to identify the class and its a byte class.
> 
> I saw many \x and thought it might be hex.
> 
> 
> So, I used binascii.hexlify() and got the following output:
> b'242f2f573fc08239a2b9138cd57b'
> 
> Now, this output is being encrypted and I need to perform an XOR operation on it in order to retrieve a secret message.
> 
> But, I'm not sure how to code the XOR operation. How do I code that?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> PS: I'm not sure if I have done any mistake along the way. That's why I have mentioned all the steps that I've done. Let me know if I have done any step wrongly. :)

Ok thank you very much for your replies :)


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Apr 14 04:37:45 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 18:37:45 +1000
Subject: Convert input to upper case on screen as it is typed
References: <85oa9cyiqt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.90.1460604334.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <nen5jj$hvi$1@dont-email.me> <85bn5cy6bz.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <8537qoy49y.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> writes:

> Okay, ?termios.tcgetattr? will let me preserve the attributes, and
> with Dan Sommers's suggestion of which attribute to use, I may have a
> shot at setting the terminal attributes.

This works!

I can get the current attributes, and preserve them; then, later, force
uppercase of all terminal output regardless what the user types; then,
later, request the flag be restored to its prior setting.

This only addresses how the terminal shows its output. The input is
still received by Python as it was typed. However, converting text
behind the scenes to uppercase is a simple problem.

I had been hoping that I could simply wrap some stream in a simple
?convert what they actually type so it's upper case? text codec, without
fiddling at such a low operating-system specific level. This is rather
more esoteric than I had hoped.

But it is a working solution, and easy enough to hide in a library.

Thanks again.

-- 
 \         ?I have the simplest tastes. I am always satisfied with the |
  `\    best.? ?Oscar Wilde, quoted in _Chicago Brothers of the Book_, |
_o__)                                                             1917 |
Ben Finney



From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 04:45:34 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 18:45:34 +1000
Subject: Convert input to upper case on screen as it is typed
In-Reply-To: <8537qoy49y.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <85oa9cyiqt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.90.1460604334.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <nen5jj$hvi$1@dont-email.me> <85bn5cy6bz.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <8537qoy49y.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp=f2krZdYHphfWZRj5QkLpS6mPydAqT=WmPrGqUqWzeA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 6:37 PM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> I had been hoping that I could simply wrap some stream in a simple
> ?convert what they actually type so it's upper case? text codec, without
> fiddling at such a low operating-system specific level. This is rather
> more esoteric than I had hoped.

If all you were doing was reading from stdin, then it probably would
be that easy. Wanting readline to work correctly requires a bit more
work; and don't forget that there are escape sequences that should
*not* be uppercased (as they'll change in meaning). So yeah, it's a
bit esoteric... but I'm glad it's working.

ChrisA


From srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 04:49:49 2016
From: srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com (durgadevi1)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 01:49:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to XOR a byte output?
In-Reply-To: <874mb5twha.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <387506b1-b645-4907-a45c-81a8c3043099@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmpuG=ew7FPwhdtsgDyjDc8d_T8-zbWuVxZy_sUUGj+R0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.71.1460554158.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <874mb5twha.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <2566ab7f-12bd-4f3b-92b2-45104b8b7dd8@googlegroups.com>


> 
> This looks clearer:
> 
>    >>> code = b'a0\xed\xf0Z\x15]g^\xce3x'
>    >>> key = b')U\x81\x9c55*\x08,\xa2WY'
>    >>> bytes(c ^ k for c, k in zip(code, key)).decode()
>    'Hello world!'
> 
> 
> Marko

Hi, I have gotten another error message when working with the bytes(c ^ k for c, k in zip(code, key)).decode().

Here is the error.
 print(bytes(c ^ k for c, k in zip(CODE, key)).decode())
UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0x85 in position 0: invalid start byte

What I did is XOR the CODE with a certain value before using the

bytes(c ^ k for c, k in zip(CODE, key)).decode() code.

However, I get no errors when using values 0 to 127 to XOR with CODE. But I get errors when using values (128 to 255). May I know how I can modify the program code so that i can XOR with values (128 to 255)?
 



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr 14 05:16:53 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 11:16:53 +0200
Subject: How to XOR a byte output?
References: <387506b1-b645-4907-a45c-81a8c3043099@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmpuG=ew7FPwhdtsgDyjDc8d_T8-zbWuVxZy_sUUGj+R0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.71.1460554158.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <874mb5twha.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <2566ab7f-12bd-4f3b-92b2-45104b8b7dd8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nenn66$np6$1@ger.gmane.org>

durgadevi1 wrote:

> 
>> 
>> This looks clearer:
>> 
>>    >>> code = b'a0\xed\xf0Z\x15]g^\xce3x'
>>    >>> key = b')U\x81\x9c55*\x08,\xa2WY'
>>    >>> bytes(c ^ k for c, k in zip(code, key)).decode()
>>    'Hello world!'
>> 
>> 
>> Marko
> 
> Hi, I have gotten another error message when working with the bytes(c ^ k
> for c, k in zip(code, key)).decode().
> 
> Here is the error.
>  print(bytes(c ^ k for c, k in zip(CODE, key)).decode())
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0x85 in position 0:
> invalid start byte
> 
> What I did is XOR the CODE with a certain value before using the
> 
> bytes(c ^ k for c, k in zip(CODE, key)).decode() code.
> 
> However, I get no errors when using values 0 to 127 to XOR with CODE. But
> I get errors when using values (128 to 255). May I know how I can modify
> the program code so that i can XOR with values (128 to 255)?

By default bytes.decode() interprets the sequence of bytes as UTF-8. This 
will fail if for example there is a lone 0x85 because no encoded character 
in UTF-8 starts with that byte:

>>> code = b'a0\xed\xf0Z\x15]g^\xce3x'
>>> key = b'\xe4U\x81\x9c55*\x08,\xa2WY'
>>> decrypted = bytes(c^k for c, k in zip(code, key))
>>> decrypted
b'\x85ello world!'
>>> decrypted.decode()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0x85 in position 0: 
invalid start byte

If you explicitly choose an encoding that maps every single byte to exactly 
one character  (e. g. ISO-8859-15), 

>>> decrypted.decode("iso-8859-15")
'\x85ello world!'

the conversion cannot fail -- but the result may still not make sense.




From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Apr 14 05:18:16 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 12:18:16 +0300
Subject: How to XOR a byte output?
References: <387506b1-b645-4907-a45c-81a8c3043099@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmpuG=ew7FPwhdtsgDyjDc8d_T8-zbWuVxZy_sUUGj+R0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.71.1460554158.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <874mb5twha.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <2566ab7f-12bd-4f3b-92b2-45104b8b7dd8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87potssg4n.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

durgadevi1 <srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com>:

>>    >>> bytes(c ^ k for c, k in zip(code, key)).decode()
>
> [...]
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0x85 in position 0:
> invalid start byte
>
> [...]
>
> However, I get no errors when using values 0 to 127 to XOR with CODE.
> But I get errors when using values (128 to 255). May I know how I can
> modify the program code so that i can XOR with values (128 to 255)?

Leave out .decode() at the end.


Marko


From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Apr 14 05:22:24 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 12:22:24 +0300
Subject: Convert input to upper case on screen as it is typed
References: <85oa9cyiqt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.90.1460604334.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <nen5jj$hvi$1@dont-email.me> <85bn5cy6bz.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <8537qoy49y.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.97.1460623092.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87lh4gsfxr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au>:

> I had been hoping that I could simply wrap some stream in a simple
> ?convert what they actually type so it's upper case? text codec,
> without fiddling at such a low operating-system specific level. This
> is rather more esoteric than I had hoped.

If you run your program in a Linux terminal, you have to abide by the
Linux terminal principles. It is not a simple Python matter. Echoing is
performed by the terminal driver and not by the Python program.

I do commend Python for having such complete coverage of Linux system
facilities.


Marko


From sergio.am.spina at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 05:31:59 2016
From: sergio.am.spina at gmail.com (Sergio Spina)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:31:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python3 - No module named 'html5lib'
Message-ID: <bcc33204-d80c-4720-9673-adca1f413559@googlegroups.com>

I'm running a python3 program that requires html5lib but I receive the error No module named 'html5lib'.

Here are two session of terminal:

    sam at pc ~ $ python
    Python 2.7.9 (default, Mar  1 2015, 12:57:24) 
    [GCC 4.9.2] on linux2
    >>> import html5lib
    >>> html5lib.__file__
    '/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/html5lib/__init__.pyc'
    >>> quit()

    sam at pc ~ $ python3
    Python 3.4.2 (default, Oct  8 2014, 10:45:20) 
    [GCC 4.9.1] on linux
    >>> import html5lib
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
    ImportError: No module named 'html5lib'

Where can be the problem?


From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 05:44:09 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 09:44:09 +0000
Subject: Advice on Python build tools
In-Reply-To: <CAMw+j7K7q5jmzkx0SLeYyRGzpEU8cV1XLRcdwZOa4Z9_Ffb6nQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5d1ee478-ab0b-42c5-bb86-29e7a539f88d@googlegroups.com>
 <CAMw+j7K7q5jmzkx0SLeYyRGzpEU8cV1XLRcdwZOa4Z9_Ffb6nQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN2of012nJnBhnL=MSFucSELYQE2USa0abz4VNNLciZ7qUUMoQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the tips. Doit does look interesting.

Regarding template plugins with Nikola the plugins would be only for python
template alternatives such as mako.

Mainly i find the whitespace and readability of Jade/pug far more pythonic
than all tge brackets {% .... %} yes its a minor thing but so much clearer.

Anyway checked out mako which has some improvement might see if there is
another with support and create a nikola plugin and then give it a try.

Cheers

Sayth

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 1:19 am Chris Warrick <kwpolska at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 12 April 2016 at 11:48, Sayth Renshaw <flebber.crue at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > Looking at the wiki list of build tools
> > https://wiki.python.org/moin/ConfigurationAndBuildTools
> >
> > Has anyone much experience in build tools as i have no preference or
> experience to lean on.
> >
> > Off descriptions only i would choose invoke.
> >
> > My requirements, simply i want to learn and build a simple static
> website generator. Many i am not liking design of or are overkill so its a
> good opportunity to learn, logya is a good starting point for what i think
> a good python static generator should be.
> >
> > Second i want to use Jade templates (js) as i think they are more
> pythonic than jinja and mako so being able to have mixed js and python
> support would be needed.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Sayth
> > --
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> Here?s a great static site generator (disclaimer, I?m a core dev over
> there):
>
> https://getnikola.com/
>
> We use doit, which is on that list. With doit, we get an existing
> build system, and incremental rebuilds ? for free. I recommend you try
> Nikola, and if you don?t like it and still want to build something
> yourself, doit is going to be a great way to do it. That said,
> incremental builds often involve trial-and-error and subtle bugs when
> you start working on it. And if you don?t like doit, you can always
> write your own build micro-system. Because if you want to write
> something simple and minimal, an existing large build system will just
> make things harder.
>
> As for Jade templates, you can?t do that reasonably. You would need to
> produce some hack to spawn a JavaScript subprocess, and it would limit
> what you can use in templates. Instead, look for a template system
> that is written in Python and that has similar syntax.
>
> (also, I wouldn?t consider such weird-thing-into-real-HTML template
> engines pythonic)
>
> --
> Chris Warrick <https://chriswarrick.com/>
> PGP: 5EAAEA16
>


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Apr 14 06:37:29 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 20:37:29 +1000
Subject: python3 - No module named 'html5lib'
References: <bcc33204-d80c-4720-9673-adca1f413559@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <85y48gwk5y.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Sergio Spina <sergio.am.spina at gmail.com> writes:

> I'm running a python3 program that requires html5lib but I receive the
> error No module named 'html5lib'.

Right, the Python 3 standard library does not have any module by that
name.

If it is to be available, it will need to be installed somehow.

What leads you to think it is available on your system?

-- 
 \            ?Program testing can be a very effective way to show the |
  `\        presence of bugs, but is hopelessly inadequate for showing |
_o__)                              their absence.? ?Edsger W. Dijkstra |
Ben Finney



From steve at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 14 07:43:51 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 21:43:51 +1000
Subject: Convert input to upper case on screen as it is typed
References: <85oa9cyiqt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.90.1460604334.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <nen5jj$hvi$1@dont-email.me> <85bn5cy6bz.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.96.1460620413.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <570f8279$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 05:53 pm, Ben Finney wrote:


> Okay, ?termios.tcgetattr? will let me preserve the attributes, and with
> Dan Sommers's suggestion of which attribute to use, I may have a shot at
> setting the terminal attributes.
> 
> Then with a top-level exception handler I can clean up by restoring the
> saved attributes with ?termios.tcsetattr?.
> 
> I will investigate along those lines.

If you get this working, please post your solution here, and consider
publishing it on ActiveState:

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/



Thanks,



-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 14 07:47:03 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 21:47:03 +1000
Subject: python3 - No module named 'html5lib'
References: <bcc33204-d80c-4720-9673-adca1f413559@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <570f8339$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 07:31 pm, Sergio Spina wrote:

> I'm running a python3 program that requires html5lib but I receive the
> error No module named 'html5lib'.
> 
> Here are two session of terminal:
> 
>     sam at pc ~ $ python
>     Python 2.7.9 (default, Mar  1 2015, 12:57:24)
>     [GCC 4.9.2] on linux2
>     >>> import html5lib
>     >>> html5lib.__file__
>     '/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/html5lib/__init__.pyc'
>     >>> quit()

You have installed html5lib as a library for Python 2.7.

Or possibly your Linux distribution has installed it.


>     sam at pc ~ $ python3
>     Python 3.4.2 (default, Oct  8 2014, 10:45:20)
>     [GCC 4.9.1] on linux
>     >>> import html5lib
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>     ImportError: No module named 'html5lib'
> 
> Where can be the problem?

Python 3 has its own set of libraries, and doesn't automatically use the
Python 2 libraries.

My guess is that if you installed html5lib using yum or apt-get, there will
be a similar command that will install the Python 3 version.



-- 
Steven



From ikorot01 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 08:04:56 2016
From: ikorot01 at gmail.com (Igor Korot)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:04:56 -0400
Subject: IdentationError; unexpected indent
In-Reply-To: <CABcnvxdJ84ZpYy688ZqhPCRY3OpW2vh5OaiUpM9+cTLT9eHS8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABcnvxeMTSBd7EpjpiguRovHebn13N71KcxvJmuik1qfM7Rn1w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+FnnTyDm2E4W7HGR9EOew4v8fTUm7h+7f5T7+7GegWxkO5GbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABcnvxdJ84ZpYy688ZqhPCRY3OpW2vh5OaiUpM9+cTLT9eHS8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FnnTzTMk6MYTRZqkOUJmx3YCg8uoV87wowFiq2=1WrV_-X0A@mail.gmail.com>

Salma,

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 3:28 AM, salma ammar <ammarsalma118 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Igor,
>
> thank you very much for your response. In fact, I put the code in bold, that
> is why it displays those symbols.
> This is the code:
>
> import sys
> sys.path.append('C:/Users/user/src/sumo-0.22.0/tools')
> import sumolib
> net =
> sumolib.net.readNet("C:/Users/user/src/sumo-0.22.0/tools/sumolib/net/qgislyonvelo.net.xml")
> radius = 0
> f = open("C:/fichierstationsvelos.txt", "r")
> contenu = f.read()
> print(contenu)
> for id, lat, lon in f:
>     x, y = net.convertLonLat2XY(lon, lat)
>   print(x, y)
>   edges = net.getNeighboringEdges(x, y, radius)
>     print (edges)
>     while len(edges) == 0:
>         radius = radius + 10
>         edges = net.getNeighboringEdges(x, y, radius)
> distancesAndEdges = sorted([(dist, edge) for edge, dist in edges])
> print(distancesAndEdges)
>         edgeofstation[id] = distancesAndEdges[0]
>         print (edgeofstation[id])
> f.close()

And what is the error message exactly? Can you copy/paste it as well?

Also, I'd advise you to subscribe to the list so that other people can
help you...

Thank you.

>
>
> Cordially.
>
> 2016-04-13 17:02 GMT+01:00 Igor Korot <ikorot01 at gmail.com>:
>>
>> Hi, Salma,
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 11:53 AM, salma ammar <ammarsalma118 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I am about to run this code using python 2.7. But when executing this
>> > code,
>> > an error appears (see attachement): IdentationError; unexpected indent
>> >
>> > What should I rectify to correct this error please?
>> >
>> >
>> > *import sys*
>> > *sys.path.append('C:/Users/user/src/sumo-0.22.0/tools')*
>> > *import sumolib*
>> > *net =
>> >
>> > sumolib.net.readNet("C:/Users/user/src/sumo-0.22.0/tools/sumolib/net/qgislyonvelo.net.xml")*
>> > *radius = 0*
>> > *f = open("C:/fichierstations.txt", "r")*
>> >
>> > *contenu = f.read()*
>> >
>> > *print(contenu)*
>> > *for id, lat, lon in f:*
>> > *    x, y = net.convertLonLat2XY(lon, lat)*
>> > *    print(x, y)*
>> > *    edges = net.getNeighboringEdges(x, y, radius)*
>> > *    print (edges)*
>> > *    while len(edges) == 0:*
>> > *        radius = radius + 10*
>> > *  edges = net.getNeighboringEdges(x, y, radius)*
>> > * distancesAndEdges = sorted([(dist, edge) for edge, dist in edges])*
>> > *  print(distancesAndEdges)*
>> > *        edgeofstation[id] = distancesAndEdges[0]*
>> > *        print (edgeofstation[id])*
>> > *f.close()*
>>
>> What are those '*' symbols in the e-mails?
>> Are they hard tabs or something else?
>>
>> Please copy and paste the script from the editor.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > Thank you in advance.
>> > --
>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>


From blindanagram at nowhere.net  Thu Apr 14 08:07:03 2016
From: blindanagram at nowhere.net (blindanagram at nowhere.net)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 13:07:03 +0100
Subject: Serious error in int() function?
In-Reply-To: <zNSdna8abKekzJLKnZ2dnUU78fHNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
References: <52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306@googlegroups.com>
 <570f3e30$0$665$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
 <Kr2dnVKiXPpT0JLKnZ2dnUU78TXNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
 <zNSdna8abKekzJLKnZ2dnUU78fHNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3MidnT9boJ97GpLKnZ2dnUU78LPNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>

On 14/04/2016 09:13, blindanagram at nowhere.net wrote:
> On 14/04/2016 08:59, blindanagram at nowhere.net wrote:
>> On 14/04/2016 07:52, ast wrote:
> 
>> This means that the result will be correct provided it has 53 or less
>> bits - just short of 16 decimal digits (i.e for square numbers with less
>> than 32 digits).
>>
>> With an integer square root function (isqrt), this program:
>>
>> for exp in count(20):
>>   v = 2 ** exp - 1
>>   if isqrt(v) != sqrt(v):
>>     print(exp, isqrt(v), sqrt(v))
>>     break
>>
>> terminates with:
>>
>>   54 18014398509481983 1.8014398509481982e+16
>>
>> showing a first error for a 54 bit square root
>>
> I should also have said that the square root of integer squares with
> between 15 and 30 decimal digits will only be correct if the square
> numbers themselves are exactly representable in 53 bits.  So we can
> expect failures for squares with 16 or more digits.

However, if a number with 31 or less digits is known to be the square of
an integer, the IEEE754 sqrt function will (I believe) give the correct
result.



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr 14 08:26:14 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 14:26:14 +0200
Subject: [OT] A doubt about a doubt
References: <387506b1-b645-4907-a45c-81a8c3043099@googlegroups.com>
 <AguPy.838728$hz.468617@fx42.am4> <neltu0$en2$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.84.1460566792.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <0c3cfac3-2e66-4341-ab51-1517cb13f1a4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <neo299$fbs$1@ger.gmane.org>

Rustom Mody wrote:

> I have a doubt:
> Is it incorrect to correct someone when they are incorrect?

No doubt about it. Everyone's a winner...

> [Sprinkle a "politically" on the above to taste <Wink>]

Ah, contradictio in adiecto. That shifts it to definitely maybe.




From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 09:07:14 2016
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 09:07:14 -0400
Subject: IdentationError; unexpected indent
In-Reply-To: <CA+FnnTzTMk6MYTRZqkOUJmx3YCg8uoV87wowFiq2=1WrV_-X0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABcnvxeMTSBd7EpjpiguRovHebn13N71KcxvJmuik1qfM7Rn1w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+FnnTyDm2E4W7HGR9EOew4v8fTUm7h+7f5T7+7GegWxkO5GbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABcnvxdJ84ZpYy688ZqhPCRY3OpW2vh5OaiUpM9+cTLT9eHS8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+FnnTzTMk6MYTRZqkOUJmx3YCg8uoV87wowFiq2=1WrV_-X0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+xai4488nNfS6w0ifN6fC_6XDu7HR1HEW_wZgt+dFaJPw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Igor Korot <ikorot01 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Salma,
>
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 3:28 AM, salma ammar <ammarsalma118 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Igor,
>>
>> thank you very much for your response. In fact, I put the code in bold, that
>> is why it displays those symbols.
>> This is the code:
>>
>> import sys
>> sys.path.append('C:/Users/user/src/sumo-0.22.0/tools')
>> import sumolib
>> net =
>> sumolib.net.readNet("C:/Users/user/src/sumo-0.22.0/tools/sumolib/net/qgislyonvelo.net.xml")
>> radius = 0
>> f = open("C:/fichierstationsvelos.txt", "r")
>> contenu = f.read()
>> print(contenu)

look closely at this for loop.  Print and edges don't line up with the
other statements
>> for id, lat, lon in f:
>>     x, y = net.convertLonLat2XY(lon, lat)
>>   print(x, y)
>>   edges = net.getNeighboringEdges(x, y, radius)
>>     print (edges)
>>     while len(edges) == 0:
>>         radius = radius + 10
>>         edges = net.getNeighboringEdges(x, y, radius)
>> distancesAndEdges = sorted([(dist, edge) for edge, dist in edges])
>> print(distancesAndEdges)
>>         edgeofstation[id] = distancesAndEdges[0]
>>         print (edgeofstation[id])
>> f.close()
>
> And what is the error message exactly? Can you copy/paste it as well?
>
> Also, I'd advise you to subscribe to the list so that other people can
> help you...
>
> Thank you.
>
>>
>>
>> Cordially.
>>
>> 2016-04-13 17:02 GMT+01:00 Igor Korot <ikorot01 at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> Hi, Salma,
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 11:53 AM, salma ammar <ammarsalma118 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > I am about to run this code using python 2.7. But when executing this
>>> > code,
>>> > an error appears (see attachement): IdentationError; unexpected indent
>>> >
>>> > What should I rectify to correct this error please?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > *import sys*
>>> > *sys.path.append('C:/Users/user/src/sumo-0.22.0/tools')*
>>> > *import sumolib*
>>> > *net =
>>> >
>>> > sumolib.net.readNet("C:/Users/user/src/sumo-0.22.0/tools/sumolib/net/qgislyonvelo.net.xml")*
>>> > *radius = 0*
>>> > *f = open("C:/fichierstations.txt", "r")*
>>> >
>>> > *contenu = f.read()*
>>> >
>>> > *print(contenu)*
>>> > *for id, lat, lon in f:*
>>> > *    x, y = net.convertLonLat2XY(lon, lat)*
>>> > *    print(x, y)*
>>> > *    edges = net.getNeighboringEdges(x, y, radius)*
>>> > *    print (edges)*
>>> > *    while len(edges) == 0:*
>>> > *        radius = radius + 10*
>>> > *  edges = net.getNeighboringEdges(x, y, radius)*
>>> > * distancesAndEdges = sorted([(dist, edge) for edge, dist in edges])*
>>> > *  print(distancesAndEdges)*
>>> > *        edgeofstation[id] = distancesAndEdges[0]*
>>> > *        print (edgeofstation[id])*
>>> > *f.close()*
>>>
>>> What are those '*' symbols in the e-mails?
>>> Are they hard tabs or something else?
>>>
>>> Please copy and paste the script from the editor.
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Thank you in advance.
>>> > --
>>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Thu Apr 14 10:08:38 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 16:08:38 +0200
Subject: How to parameterize unittests
Message-ID: <570FA466.20003@rece.vub.ac.be>


I have a unittest for my avltree module.

Now I want this unittest to also run on a subclass of avltree.
How can I organise this, so that I can largely reuse the
original TestCase?

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From dpalao.python at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 10:28:46 2016
From: dpalao.python at gmail.com (David Palao)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 16:28:46 +0200
Subject: How to parameterize unittests
In-Reply-To: <570FA466.20003@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <570FA466.20003@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <CAKUKWzkg4TKXVBO8rD2YNXFWYen_wq+zJX1xtTAzX_R1dHZoyw@mail.gmail.com>

2016-04-14 16:08 GMT+02:00 Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be>:
>
> I have a unittest for my avltree module.
>
> Now I want this unittest to also run on a subclass of avltree.
> How can I organise this, so that I can largely reuse the
> original TestCase?
>
> --
> Antoon Pardon
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

First, is it necessary to test the functionality twice?

If so then, why don't you simply subclass the original TestCase?

Or am I missing the point of your question?

Best


From steve at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 14 11:05:07 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 01:05:07 +1000
Subject: How to parameterize unittests
References: <570FA466.20003@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.106.1460642951.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <570fb1a3$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 12:08 am, Antoon Pardon wrote:

> 
> I have a unittest for my avltree module.
> 
> Now I want this unittest to also run on a subclass of avltree.
> How can I organise this, so that I can largely reuse the
> original TestCase?


class Test_AVLTree(unittest.TestCase):
    tree = avltree

    def test_empty_tree_is_false(self):
        instance = self.tree()
        self.assertFalse(instance)


class Test_MySubclassTree(Test_AVLTree):
    tree = My_Subclass_Tree



-- 
Steven



From best_lay at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 14 11:53:46 2016
From: best_lay at yahoo.com (Wildman)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 10:53:46 -0500
Subject: python3 - No module named 'html5lib'
References: <bcc33204-d80c-4720-9673-adca1f413559@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <i7OdnbnsxPOXIJLKnZ2dnUU7-emdnZ2d@giganews.com>

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:31:59 -0700, Sergio Spina wrote:

> I'm running a python3 program that requires html5lib but I receive the error No module named 'html5lib'.
> 
> Here are two session of terminal:
> 
>     sam at pc ~ $ python
>     Python 2.7.9 (default, Mar  1 2015, 12:57:24) 
>     [GCC 4.9.2] on linux2
>     >>> import html5lib
>     >>> html5lib.__file__
>     '/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/html5lib/__init__.pyc'
>     >>> quit()
> 
>     sam at pc ~ $ python3
>     Python 3.4.2 (default, Oct  8 2014, 10:45:20) 
>     [GCC 4.9.1] on linux
>     >>> import html5lib
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>     ImportError: No module named 'html5lib'
> 
> Where can be the problem?

apt-get install python3-html5lib

-- 
<Wildman> GNU/Linux user #557453
The cow died so I don't need your bull!


From martin at linux-ip.net  Thu Apr 14 12:41:16 2016
From: martin at linux-ip.net (Martin A. Brown)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 09:41:16 -0700
Subject: Looking for feedback on weighted voting algorithm
In-Reply-To: <CAO1D73EFoLoJm=4shNfgEsJinGHrM82J_BsTRMnm7XX4tW1h+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO1D73EFoLoJm=4shNfgEsJinGHrM82J_BsTRMnm7XX4tW1h+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604140859230.18407@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>


Greetings Justin,

>    score = sum_of_votes/num_of_votes

>votes = [(72, 4), (96, 3), (48, 2), (53, 1), (26, 4), (31, 3), (68, 2), (91, 1)]

>Specifically, I'm wondering if this is a good algorithm for 
>weighted voting. Essentially a vote is weighted by the number of 
>votes it counts as. I realize that this is an extremely simple 
>algorithm, but I was wondering if anyone had suggestions on how to 
>improve it.

I snipped most of your code.  I don't see anything wrong with your 
overall approach.  I will make one suggestion: watch out for 
DivisionByZero.

    try:
        score = sum_of_votes / num_of_votes
    except ZeroDivisionError:
        score = float('nan')

In your example data, all of the weights were integers, which means 
that a simple mean function would work, as well, if you expanded the 
votes to an alternate representation:

  votes = [72, 72, 72, 72, 96, 96, 96, 48, 48, 53, 26, 26, 26, 26,
           31, 31, 31, 68, 68, 91]

But, don't bother!

Your function can handle votes that have a float weight:

  >>> weight([(4, 1.3), (1, 1),])
  2.695652173913044

Have fun!

-Martin

-- 
Martin A. Brown
http://linux-ip.net/


From walters.justin01 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 13:36:16 2016
From: walters.justin01 at gmail.com (justin walters)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 10:36:16 -0700
Subject: Looking for feedback on weighted voting algorithm
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604140859230.18407@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>
References: <CAO1D73EFoLoJm=4shNfgEsJinGHrM82J_BsTRMnm7XX4tW1h+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604140859230.18407@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>
Message-ID: <CAO1D73GG2Rfp6VK1Tr6fL6Ok4sJo55anYXsXK=PVWRfkNKVBrA@mail.gmail.com>

On Apr 14, 2016 9:41 AM, "Martin A. Brown" <martin at linux-ip.net> wrote:
>
>
> Greetings Justin,
>
> >    score = sum_of_votes/num_of_votes
>
> >votes = [(72, 4), (96, 3), (48, 2), (53, 1), (26, 4), (31, 3), (68, 2),
(91, 1)]
>
> >Specifically, I'm wondering if this is a good algorithm for
> >weighted voting. Essentially a vote is weighted by the number of
> >votes it counts as. I realize that this is an extremely simple
> >algorithm, but I was wondering if anyone had suggestions on how to
> >improve it.
>
> I snipped most of your code.  I don't see anything wrong with your
> overall approach.  I will make one suggestion: watch out for
> DivisionByZero.
>
>     try:
>         score = sum_of_votes / num_of_votes
>     except ZeroDivisionError:
>         score = float('nan')
>
> In your example data, all of the weights were integers, which means
> that a simple mean function would work, as well, if you expanded the
> votes to an alternate representation:
>
>   votes = [72, 72, 72, 72, 96, 96, 96, 48, 48, 53, 26, 26, 26, 26,
>            31, 31, 31, 68, 68, 91]
>
> But, don't bother!
>
> Your function can handle votes that have a float weight:
>
>   >>> weight([(4, 1.3), (1, 1),])
>   2.695652173913044
>
> Have fun!
>
> -Martin
>
> --
> Martin A. Brown
> http://linux-ip.net/

Thanks Martin!

I'll add the check for division by zero. Didn't think about that. I think
I'm going to sanitize input anyways, but always better to be safe than
sorry.


From wrh8609 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 13:46:41 2016
From: wrh8609 at gmail.com (wrh8609 at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 10:46:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to setup for localhost:8000
Message-ID: <5ea1e31b-09ba-4b6a-be8b-58886c5c5f81@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am working on window 7 and Python 3.5 to setup a localhost:8000 but it did not get through as shown below:
> python -m http.server
Serving HTTP on 0.0.0.0 port 8000 ...

But it did not show the results.

Can someone help me how to setup the localhost?

Thanks,
Wen-Ruey



From cherylarko at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 13:59:58 2016
From: cherylarko at gmail.com (Cheryl Arko)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 13:59:58 -0400
Subject: installing python
Message-ID: <CAJ8L5y4SHDkhgRcA94H33cLX_a7kVwiuzjqXYTxtuXCDB88G7Q@mail.gmail.com>

I am having issues installing the python software on my laptop.  I have
tried to install it several times and when I try to get into the program it
keeps giving me options to modify, repair or uninstall.  I have tried all
of those options and even tried to uninstall and reinstall and still keep
getting the same.  Any suggestions?

Thanks!


From armorsmith42 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 14:06:47 2016
From: armorsmith42 at gmail.com (Andrew Farrell)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 13:06:47 -0500
Subject: how to setup for localhost:8000
In-Reply-To: <5ea1e31b-09ba-4b6a-be8b-58886c5c5f81@googlegroups.com>
References: <5ea1e31b-09ba-4b6a-be8b-58886c5c5f81@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CA+y5TLbED=JjcPG4-qfn=7tH=Y=6PQa+MMpvh_8uNT2srh7dBw@mail.gmail.com>

What happens when you type

http://localhost:8000

Into the address bar of your browser as this is running?

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 12:46 PM, <wrh8609 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am working on window 7 and Python 3.5 to setup a localhost:8000 but it
> did not get through as shown below:
> > python -m http.server
> Serving HTTP on 0.0.0.0 port 8000 ...
>
> But it did not show the results.
>
> Can someone help me how to setup the localhost?
>
> Thanks,
> Wen-Ruey
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr 14 14:07:54 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 20:07:54 +0200
Subject: how to setup for localhost:8000
References: <5ea1e31b-09ba-4b6a-be8b-58886c5c5f81@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <neom9q$a4j$1@ger.gmane.org>

wrh8609 at gmail.com wrote:

> I am working on window 7 and Python 3.5 to setup a localhost:8000 but it
> did not get through as shown below:
>> python -m http.server
> Serving HTTP on 0.0.0.0 port 8000 ...

That looks correct so far. Now open a browser and open

http://localhost:8000/




From random832 at fastmail.com  Thu Apr 14 14:36:52 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 14:36:52 -0400
Subject: how to setup for localhost:8000
In-Reply-To: <CA+y5TLbED=JjcPG4-qfn=7tH=Y=6PQa+MMpvh_8uNT2srh7dBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5ea1e31b-09ba-4b6a-be8b-58886c5c5f81@googlegroups.com>
 <CA+y5TLbED=JjcPG4-qfn=7tH=Y=6PQa+MMpvh_8uNT2srh7dBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1460659012.81552.579014273.1E542AB8@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Just a note, some browsers will try to resolve this as www.localhost.com
- try http://127.0.0.1:8000 .

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016, at 14:06, Andrew Farrell wrote:
> What happens when you type
> 
> http://localhost:8000
> 
> Into the address bar of your browser as this is running?


From random832 at fastmail.com  Thu Apr 14 14:38:19 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 14:38:19 -0400
Subject: installing python
In-Reply-To: <CAJ8L5y4SHDkhgRcA94H33cLX_a7kVwiuzjqXYTxtuXCDB88G7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ8L5y4SHDkhgRcA94H33cLX_a7kVwiuzjqXYTxtuXCDB88G7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1460659099.81720.579014865.0215A8D7@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016, at 13:59, Cheryl Arko wrote:
> I am having issues installing the python software on my laptop.  I have
> tried to install it several times and when I try to get into the program
> it
> keeps giving me options to modify, repair or uninstall.  I have tried all
> of those options and even tried to uninstall and reinstall and still keep
> getting the same.  Any suggestions?

Are you trying to reopen the same file you downloaded? That's the
installer, not python itself. You need to find Python in the start menu
after installing it.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 14:39:53 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 04:39:53 +1000
Subject: how to setup for localhost:8000
In-Reply-To: <1460659012.81552.579014273.1E542AB8@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <5ea1e31b-09ba-4b6a-be8b-58886c5c5f81@googlegroups.com>
 <CA+y5TLbED=JjcPG4-qfn=7tH=Y=6PQa+MMpvh_8uNT2srh7dBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1460659012.81552.579014273.1E542AB8@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrq-E6fYiVbpKqJqhQ4DWOcfpP8+zhWeHD5knbX0K0VCw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 4:36 AM, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
> Just a note, some browsers will try to resolve this as www.localhost.com
> - try http://127.0.0.1:8000 .

Huh? Why should the name 'localhost' get a dot com added?

ChrisA


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 16:48:12 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 20:48:12 +0000
Subject: Looking for feedback on weighted voting algorithm
In-Reply-To: <CAO1D73GG2Rfp6VK1Tr6fL6Ok4sJo55anYXsXK=PVWRfkNKVBrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO1D73EFoLoJm=4shNfgEsJinGHrM82J_BsTRMnm7XX4tW1h+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604140859230.18407@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>
 <CAO1D73GG2Rfp6VK1Tr6fL6Ok4sJo55anYXsXK=PVWRfkNKVBrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkN8RCzZW2uWuCS+A7hXunP9Fc-TUAZRM3dhdfMhV9YDnQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016, 7:37 PM justin walters <walters.justin01 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Apr 14, 2016 9:41 AM, "Martin A. Brown" <martin at linux-ip.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Greetings Justin,
> >
> > >    score = sum_of_votes/num_of_votes
> >
> > >votes = [(72, 4), (96, 3), (48, 2), (53, 1), (26, 4), (31, 3), (68, 2),
> (91, 1)]
> >
> > >Specifically, I'm wondering if this is a good algorithm for
> > >weighted voting. Essentially a vote is weighted by the number of
> > >votes it counts as. I realize that this is an extremely simple
> > >algorithm, but I was wondering if anyone had suggestions on how to
> > >improve it.
> >
> > I snipped most of your code.  I don't see anything wrong with your
> > overall approach.  I will make one suggestion: watch out for
> > DivisionByZero.
> >
> >     try:
> >         score = sum_of_votes / num_of_votes
> >     except ZeroDivisionError:
> >         score = float('nan')
> >
> > In your example data, all of the weights were integers, which means
> > that a simple mean function would work, as well, if you expanded the
> > votes to an alternate representation:
> >
> >   votes = [72, 72, 72, 72, 96, 96, 96, 48, 48, 53, 26, 26, 26, 26,
> >            31, 31, 31, 68, 68, 91]
> >
> > But, don't bother!
> >
> > Your function can handle votes that have a float weight:
> >
> >   >>> weight([(4, 1.3), (1, 1),])
> >   2.695652173913044
> >
> > Have fun!
> >
> > -Martin
> >
> > --
> > Martin A. Brown
> > http://linux-ip.net/
>
> Thanks Martin!
>
> I'll add the check for division by zero. Didn't think about that. I think
> I'm going to sanitize input anyways, but always better to be safe than
> sorry.
>

I suggest not worrying about sanitizing inputs. If someone provides bad
data, Python will do the right thing: stop the program and print an
explanation of what went wrong, often a more helpful message than one you'd
write. Use error handling mostly for when you want to do something *other*
than stop the program.

I'm not sure I'd use NaN instead of raise division by zero error. NaNs can
be troublesome for downstream code that might not notice until it gets
confusing. A div-by-zero error is clear and easier to track down because of
the traceback.

What do you think of using list comprehensions?

    weighted_sum = sum(rating * weight for rating, weight in votes)
    total_weights = sum(weight for rating, weight in votes)
    score = weighted_sum / total_weights

It's two loops as I wrote it, which is instinctively slower, but it might
actually execute faster because of the built-in sum vs a regular for loop.
Not sure.

>


From wrh8609 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 16:50:19 2016
From: wrh8609 at gmail.com (wrh8609 at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 13:50:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to setup for localhost:8000
In-Reply-To: <mailman.112.1460658199.15650.python-list@python.org>
References: <5ea1e31b-09ba-4b6a-be8b-58886c5c5f81@googlegroups.com>
 <CA+y5TLbED=JjcPG4-qfn=7tH=Y=6PQa+MMpvh_8uNT2srh7dBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.112.1460658199.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2e597a56-00ab-4370-b337-667f34eac56a@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 2:23:36 PM UTC-4, Andrew Farrell wrote:
> What happens when you type
> 
> http://localhost:8000
> 
> Into the address bar of your browser as this is running?
> 
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 12:46 PM, <wrh8609 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am working on window 7 and Python 3.5 to setup a localhost:8000 but it
> > did not get through as shown below:
> > > python -m http.server
> > Serving HTTP on 0.0.0.0 port 8000 ...
> >
> > But it did not show the results.
> >
> > Can someone help me how to setup the localhost?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Wen-Ruey
> >
> > --
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >

hi Andrew,

Yes. after I type http:\\localhost:8000, the browser did not show anything except a empty page without any errors.

Thanks,
Wen-Ruey


From fillmore_remove at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 14 16:50:22 2016
From: fillmore_remove at hotmail.com (Fillmore)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 16:50:22 -0400
Subject: I have been dealing with Python for a few weeks...
Message-ID: <neovqc$1ua9$1@gioia.aioe.org>


...and I'm loving it.

Sooo much more elegant than Perl...and so much less going back to the 
manual to lookup the syntax of simple data structures and operations...

REPL is so useful

and you guys rock too

cheers


From sambyoung at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 16:53:49 2016
From: sambyoung at gmail.com (Samuel M.)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 13:53:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using SSML in Python script/program
Message-ID: <a7384cb5-3b57-498e-a83d-69001958931d@googlegroups.com>


I need to use SSML (Synthesized Speech Markup Language) to play an audio file with the tag in my Alexa Skill (as per Amazon's instructions).

Problem is, I don't know how to use SSML with Python. I know I can use it with Java but I want to build my skills with Python. I've looked all over, but haven't found any working examples of SSML in a Python script/program - does anyone know?

Any help is much appreciated!


From D.Strohl at F5.com  Thu Apr 14 17:14:05 2016
From: D.Strohl at F5.com (Dan Strohl)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 21:14:05 +0000
Subject: how to setup for localhost:8000
In-Reply-To: <2e597a56-00ab-4370-b337-667f34eac56a@googlegroups.com>
References: <5ea1e31b-09ba-4b6a-be8b-58886c5c5f81@googlegroups.com>
 <CA+y5TLbED=JjcPG4-qfn=7tH=Y=6PQa+MMpvh_8uNT2srh7dBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.112.1460658199.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <2e597a56-00ab-4370-b337-667f34eac56a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <52d7db080498466ebdc51cf019479c3e@seaexchmbx03.olympus.F5Net.com>

If you got an empty page with no errors (and no warnings trying to get there...) it is likely that your server is working, and you are trying to access it correctly, but the server is not serving anything.  Most of the time, if the server is not present, you will get a timeout error saying the browser could not connect to server xxx. Or the site can't be reached, or something.

I am not however much of an expert in figuring out WHY it isn't showing anything  (I used a different lib for http servers), but I am sure someone else on this list is.  I can only tell you that you probably at least launched the server correctly.

Have you tried the example on the page in the docs? (about 3/4 of the way down).
https://docs.python.org/3/library/http.server.html

If that doesn't work, it's possible you have a firewall or browser rule blocking something... and it if does work, you can look back at your code to see what might be wrong.  (I suggest playing with the log_request, log_error, and log_message parameters to figure out what is happening.)  

OF course, that all assumes that someone else smarter than I on this list doesn't come forth and just say... "well, just do this, and poof, all  will be good".

Sorry it's not more.

Dan

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+d.strohl=f5.com at python.org]
> On Behalf Of wrh8609 at gmail.com
> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 1:50 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: how to setup for localhost:8000
> 
> On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 2:23:36 PM UTC-4, Andrew Farrell wrote:
> > What happens when you type
> >
> > http://localhost:8000
> >
> > Into the address bar of your browser as this is running?
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 12:46 PM, <wrh8609 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I am working on window 7 and Python 3.5 to setup a localhost:8000
> > > but it did not get through as shown below:
> > > > python -m http.server
> > > Serving HTTP on 0.0.0.0 port 8000 ...
> > >
> > > But it did not show the results.
> > >
> > > Can someone help me how to setup the localhost?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Wen-Ruey
> > >
> > > --
> > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > >
> 
> hi Andrew,
> 
> Yes. after I type http:\\localhost:8000, the browser did not show anything
> except a empty page without any errors.
> 
> Thanks,
> Wen-Ruey
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From cjuried at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 14 19:05:03 2016
From: cjuried at yahoo.com (Chris Juried)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 23:05:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to XOR a byte output?
In-Reply-To: <87potssg4n.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <87potssg4n.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <1973741114.867178.1460675103346.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Hello list,
I am new to the list and was wondering if anyone is using Python for MCU programing? In particular the AVR and ARM based controllers. Is Python a plausible language for MCU programming or is C/C++ or Assembly the only way to go? Thanks in advance for your insight.
?Sincerely,???
??Chris?? 
Audio Engineering Society (AES)?Member? 
InfoComm-Recognized AV Technologist
http://www.JuriedEngineering.com?(Juried Engineering, LLC.)
http://www.TubeEquipment.com (Tube Equipment Corporation)
http://www.HistoryOfRecording.com (History of Recording)


This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this email, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please immediately notify me at (754) 300-9972 and permanently delete the original and any copy of any e-mail and any printout thereof.


     
  

From walters.justin01 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 22:11:37 2016
From: walters.justin01 at gmail.com (justin walters)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 19:11:37 -0700
Subject: Looking for feedback on weighted voting algorithm
In-Reply-To: <CAGgTfkN8RCzZW2uWuCS+A7hXunP9Fc-TUAZRM3dhdfMhV9YDnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO1D73EFoLoJm=4shNfgEsJinGHrM82J_BsTRMnm7XX4tW1h+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604140859230.18407@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>
 <CAO1D73GG2Rfp6VK1Tr6fL6Ok4sJo55anYXsXK=PVWRfkNKVBrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkN8RCzZW2uWuCS+A7hXunP9Fc-TUAZRM3dhdfMhV9YDnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO1D73EoWG5zc8R1F7ANFvkNqquTVY5uaR7wzChh4yf9WCgYzQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the advice and the code Michael.

That's definitely a clever way to do it.

The algorithm is going to be used for a web application, so the inputs
should be sanitized for security reasons. It will be trivial to make sure
the inputs are integers and are in the correct range. I will raise a
DivisionByZero error for clarity.

I plan to have the result stored in the cache and then transferred to the
db after every new vote, so this algorithm could see some heavy use for
short periods of time. Therefore, performance is important for me. I
believe the algorithm that I provided is O(n) or O(n+1), but I never really
studied Compsci, so I'm not sure. Either way, I think it should perform
well enough.

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Michael Selik <michael.selik at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016, 7:37 PM justin walters <walters.justin01 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Apr 14, 2016 9:41 AM, "Martin A. Brown" <martin at linux-ip.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Greetings Justin,
>> >
>> > >    score = sum_of_votes/num_of_votes
>> >
>> > >votes = [(72, 4), (96, 3), (48, 2), (53, 1), (26, 4), (31, 3), (68, 2),
>> (91, 1)]
>> >
>> > >Specifically, I'm wondering if this is a good algorithm for
>> > >weighted voting. Essentially a vote is weighted by the number of
>> > >votes it counts as. I realize that this is an extremely simple
>> > >algorithm, but I was wondering if anyone had suggestions on how to
>> > >improve it.
>> >
>> > I snipped most of your code.  I don't see anything wrong with your
>> > overall approach.  I will make one suggestion: watch out for
>> > DivisionByZero.
>> >
>> >     try:
>> >         score = sum_of_votes / num_of_votes
>> >     except ZeroDivisionError:
>> >         score = float('nan')
>> >
>> > In your example data, all of the weights were integers, which means
>> > that a simple mean function would work, as well, if you expanded the
>> > votes to an alternate representation:
>> >
>> >   votes = [72, 72, 72, 72, 96, 96, 96, 48, 48, 53, 26, 26, 26, 26,
>> >            31, 31, 31, 68, 68, 91]
>> >
>> > But, don't bother!
>> >
>> > Your function can handle votes that have a float weight:
>> >
>> >   >>> weight([(4, 1.3), (1, 1),])
>> >   2.695652173913044
>> >
>> > Have fun!
>> >
>> > -Martin
>> >
>> > --
>> > Martin A. Brown
>> > http://linux-ip.net/
>>
>> Thanks Martin!
>>
>> I'll add the check for division by zero. Didn't think about that. I think
>> I'm going to sanitize input anyways, but always better to be safe than
>> sorry.
>>
>
> I suggest not worrying about sanitizing inputs. If someone provides bad
> data, Python will do the right thing: stop the program and print an
> explanation of what went wrong, often a more helpful message than one you'd
> write. Use error handling mostly for when you want to do something *other*
> than stop the program.
>
> I'm not sure I'd use NaN instead of raise division by zero error. NaNs can
> be troublesome for downstream code that might not notice until it gets
> confusing. A div-by-zero error is clear and easier to track down because of
> the traceback.
>
> What do you think of using list comprehensions?
>
>     weighted_sum = sum(rating * weight for rating, weight in votes)
>     total_weights = sum(weight for rating, weight in votes)
>     score = weighted_sum / total_weights
>
> It's two loops as I wrote it, which is instinctively slower, but it might
> actually execute faster because of the built-in sum vs a regular for loop.
> Not sure.
>
>>


From walters.justin01 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 22:12:42 2016
From: walters.justin01 at gmail.com (justin walters)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 19:12:42 -0700
Subject: I have been dealing with Python for a few weeks...
In-Reply-To: <neovqc$1ua9$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <neovqc$1ua9$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <CAO1D73H3zZkn3BEs4PDjGVwDRk_rbTGoGBPFNA3NggHThXKQ2w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 1:50 PM, Fillmore <fillmore_remove at hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
> ...and I'm loving it.
>
> Sooo much more elegant than Perl...and so much less going back to the
> manual to lookup the syntax of simple data structures and operations...
>
> REPL is so useful
>
> and you guys rock too
>
> cheers
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Good to hear you're enjoying it. Out of curiosity, what were you using Perl
for?


From auriocus at gmx.de  Thu Apr 14 22:38:29 2016
From: auriocus at gmx.de (Christian Gollwitzer)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 04:38:29 +0200
Subject: Serious error in int() function?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.121.1460680575.15650.python-list@python.org>
References: <52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306@googlegroups.com>
 <570f3e30$0$665$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
 <Kr2dnVKiXPpT0JLKnZ2dnUU78TXNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
 <zNSdna8abKekzJLKnZ2dnUU78fHNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
 <3MidnT9boJ97GpLKnZ2dnUU78LPNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
 <rid0hbt5r0pm5pjsjadb23g0f6jib2qrtt@4ax.com>
 <mailman.121.1460680575.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nepk0u$pag$1@dont-email.me>

Am 15.04.16 um 02:36 schrieb Dennis Lee Bieber:
>>> I should also have said that the square root of integer squares with
>>> between 15 and 30 decimal digits will only be correct if the square
>>> numbers themselves are exactly representable in 53 bits.  So we can
>>> expect failures for squares with 16 or more digits.
>>
>> However, if a number with 31 or less digits is known to be the square of
>> an integer, the IEEE754 sqrt function will (I believe) give the correct
>> result.
>
> 	How could it EXCEPT by having ~15 significant digits and an exponent --
> since that is all the data that is provided by a double precision floating
> point. That is, for example,
>
>>>> 1000000000000000.0 * 1000000000000000.0
> 1e+30
>>>> import math
>>>> math.sqrt(1e30)
> 1000000000000000.0
>>>>
>
> only has ONE significant digit -- even though it has thirty 0s before the
> decimal point.

No, you need to count the significant digits in binary. 1e30 is not an 
even number in binary floating point.

Apfelkiste:AsynCA chris$ bc
bc 1.06
Copyright 1991-1994, 1997, 1998, 2000 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY.
For details type `warranty'.
obase=2
10^30
11001001111100101100100111001101000001000110011101001110110111101010\
01000000000000000000000000000000
sqrt(10^30)
11100011010111111010100100110001101000000000000000

Still, the floating point arithmetic should round to the correct answer 
if both are converted to decimal.

	Christian




From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Apr 15 00:00:47 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 14:00:47 +1000
Subject: I have been dealing with Python for a few weeks...
References: <neovqc$1ua9$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <85potrwmfk.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Fillmore <fillmore_remove at hotmail.com> writes:

> ...and I'm loving it.

Hooray!

> and you guys rock too

I'm glad you have had good responses and help here.

If you feel motivated, please spread the love and write an article
somewhere (your weblog?) outside this community, praising what you've
found good about the language and its community.

-- 
 \      ?What we usually pray to God is not that His will be done, but |
  `\                       that He approve ours.? ?Helga Bergold Gross |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 00:36:22 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 21:36:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Create a forecast estimate updated with actuals weekly
Message-ID: <6489fc2d-4626-44e8-8a01-c83ea1c5579f@googlegroups.com>

Hi

Wondering if someone has this knowledge, and please forgive my maths expressions.
If I want to estimate need results to achieve a goal at the end of a term updated weekly with real results how would I structure this?

So as an example to illustrate my thought process(which could be wrong) These are Bills results for the first to weeks.

Bills Goal = 60% after 5 weeks.
			
	wk1	wk2	wk3	wk4	wk5
Bill	54.5%	57.1%			

So say these are the results that get it to current.

wk1		wk2	
get	opp	get	opp
6	11	4	7

So 6/11 etc

I am thinking to achieve this I then need to estimate an average opportunity rate rounded up. (11 + 7)/2 = 9 so if we had a 5 week term

wk3		wk4		wk5	
get	avgopp	get	avgopp	get	avgopp
X	9	X	9	X	9

So doing it manually I would discover Bill needs 6 out of 9 each week, which results in:

sumget	28	0.622222222	result
sumopp	45		


But how do I structure this so that the new results when known for week 3 update and adjust the following estimates?

Thanks

Sayth


From vito.detullio at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 01:59:59 2016
From: vito.detullio at gmail.com (Vito De Tullio)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 07:59:59 +0200
Subject: how to setup for localhost:8000
References: <5ea1e31b-09ba-4b6a-be8b-58886c5c5f81@googlegroups.com>
 <CA+y5TLbED=JjcPG4-qfn=7tH=Y=6PQa+MMpvh_8uNT2srh7dBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1460659012.81552.579014273.1E542AB8@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmrq-E6fYiVbpKqJqhQ4DWOcfpP8+zhWeHD5knbX0K0VCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <neq010$fh0$1@ger.gmane.org>

Chris Angelico wrote:

>> Just a note, some browsers will try to resolve this as www.localhost.com
>> - try http://127.0.0.1:8000 .
> 
> Huh? Why should the name 'localhost' get a dot com added?

ask browser vendors...

-- 
By ZeD



From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 15 02:51:54 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 16:51:54 +1000
Subject: Create a forecast estimate updated with actuals weekly
References: <6489fc2d-4626-44e8-8a01-c83ea1c5579f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <57108f8c$0$1603$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 02:36 pm, Sayth Renshaw wrote:

> Hi
> 
> Wondering if someone has this knowledge, and please forgive my maths
> expressions. If I want to estimate need results to achieve a goal at the
> end of a term updated weekly with real results how would I structure this?

I'm not really sure that this question has anything to do with Python. But
then I don't really understand the question -- you haven't explained what
you are trying to do. Remember, it might be clear to you, because you have
been working on the question and understand the background of where is
comes from. But to us it is a big mystery.

 
> So as an example to illustrate my thought process(which could be wrong)
> These are Bills results for the first to weeks.
> 
> Bills Goal = 60% after 5 weeks.

60% of what?


> wk1   wk2     wk3     wk4     wk5
> Bill  54.5%   57.1%

What do these numbers represent? Where do they come from? How do they relate
to the goal of 60%?


> So say these are the results that get it to current.

You've mentioned two weeks. What is "current"?

 
> wk1           wk2
> get   opp     get     opp
> 6     11      4       7
> 
> So 6/11 etc

Where do these numbers come from? What do you mean "get" and "opp"?


> I am thinking to achieve this I then need to estimate an average
> opportunity rate rounded up. (11 + 7)/2 = 9 so if we had a 5 week term
>
> wk3           wk4             wk5
> get   avgopp  get     avgopp  get     avgopp
> X     9       X       9       X       9
> 
> So doing it manually I would discover Bill needs 6 out of 9 each week,
> which results in:
> 
> sumget        28      0.622222222     result
> sumopp        45

Finally something I can understand! 28/45 == 0.62222... but why are you
dividing those numbers? Where do they come from? 3*6/9 == 2, not 28/45.


> But how do I structure this so that the new results when known for week 3
> update and adjust the following estimates?

I don't understand your question. You were able to perform a calculation to
get the result 28/45, so why don't you do the same calculation again (but
this time with three input numbers instead of two) to get the next result?




-- 
Steven



From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Fri Apr 15 02:52:28 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 08:52:28 +0200
Subject: How to parameterize unittests
In-Reply-To: <570fb1a3$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <570FA466.20003@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.106.1460642951.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570fb1a3$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <57108FAC.3020105@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 14-04-16 om 17:05 schreef Steven D'Aprano:
> On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 12:08 am, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>> I have a unittest for my avltree module.
>>
>> Now I want this unittest to also run on a subclass of avltree.
>> How can I organise this, so that I can largely reuse the
>> original TestCase?
>
> class Test_AVLTree(unittest.TestCase):
>     tree = avltree
>
>     def test_empty_tree_is_false(self):
>         instance = self.tree()
>         self.assertFalse(instance)
>
>
> class Test_MySubclassTree(Test_AVLTree):
>     tree = My_Subclass_Tree

I see, that's going to be a lot of cut & pastes.
Thanks.

-- 
Antoon.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 03:38:02 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 17:38:02 +1000
Subject: how to setup for localhost:8000
In-Reply-To: <neq010$fh0$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <5ea1e31b-09ba-4b6a-be8b-58886c5c5f81@googlegroups.com>
 <CA+y5TLbED=JjcPG4-qfn=7tH=Y=6PQa+MMpvh_8uNT2srh7dBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1460659012.81552.579014273.1E542AB8@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAPTjJmrq-E6fYiVbpKqJqhQ4DWOcfpP8+zhWeHD5knbX0K0VCw@mail.gmail.com>
 <neq010$fh0$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrhNMRLjLBkbQ6dtVGRO1-wmhpQi+Ci7-s+3RiecKSrWQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Vito De Tullio <vito.detullio at gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>>> Just a note, some browsers will try to resolve this as www.localhost.com
>>> - try http://127.0.0.1:8000 .
>>
>> Huh? Why should the name 'localhost' get a dot com added?
>
> ask browser vendors...

I'd more ask your local resolver. If the name 'localhost' can be
correctly resolved (it's commonly in your hosts file, and if not, your
local DNS resolver can easily be configured to be authoritative), no
additional TLD should be added ('localhost' is itself a valid TLD).

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 03:42:16 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 17:42:16 +1000
Subject: How to parameterize unittests
In-Reply-To: <57108FAC.3020105@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <570FA466.20003@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.106.1460642951.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570fb1a3$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <57108FAC.3020105@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmreV+Ed722t7mUUC62L2u8gT-CE5K9ASGon1PHMYFdmTQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 4:52 PM, Antoon Pardon
<antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
> Op 14-04-16 om 17:05 schreef Steven D'Aprano:
>> On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 12:08 am, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>
>>> I have a unittest for my avltree module.
>>>
>>> Now I want this unittest to also run on a subclass of avltree.
>>> How can I organise this, so that I can largely reuse the
>>> original TestCase?
>>
>> class Test_AVLTree(unittest.TestCase):
>>     tree = avltree
>>
>>     def test_empty_tree_is_false(self):
>>         instance = self.tree()
>>         self.assertFalse(instance)
>>
>>
>> class Test_MySubclassTree(Test_AVLTree):
>>     tree = My_Subclass_Tree
>
> I see, that's going to be a lot of cut & pastes.
> Thanks.

Not really; the first class has all the tests, and the second one is
literally just those two lines. It overrides 'tree' (accessed inside
methods as 'self.tree'), and since all the tests are written to
instantiate self.tree, they are effectively parameterized.

ChrisA


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Fri Apr 15 04:20:18 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 10:20:18 +0200
Subject: How to parameterize unittests
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmreV+Ed722t7mUUC62L2u8gT-CE5K9ASGon1PHMYFdmTQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <570FA466.20003@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.106.1460642951.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570fb1a3$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <57108FAC.3020105@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmreV+Ed722t7mUUC62L2u8gT-CE5K9ASGon1PHMYFdmTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5710A442.8000906@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 15-04-16 om 09:42 schreef Chris Angelico:
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 4:52 PM, Antoon Pardon
> <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
>> Op 14-04-16 om 17:05 schreef Steven D'Aprano:
>>> On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 12:08 am, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have a unittest for my avltree module.
>>>>
>>>> Now I want this unittest to also run on a subclass of avltree.
>>>> How can I organise this, so that I can largely reuse the
>>>> original TestCase?
>>> class Test_AVLTree(unittest.TestCase):
>>>     tree = avltree
>>>
>>>     def test_empty_tree_is_false(self):
>>>         instance = self.tree()
>>>         self.assertFalse(instance)
>>>
>>>
>>> class Test_MySubclassTree(Test_AVLTree):
>>>     tree = My_Subclass_Tree
>> I see, that's going to be a lot of cut & pastes.
>> Thanks.
> Not really; the first class has all the tests, and the second one is
> literally just those two lines. It overrides 'tree' (accessed inside
> methods as 'self.tree'), and since all the tests are written to
> instantiate self.tree, they are effectively parameterized.

But the tests, at this moment, are not written to instantiate self.tree
but to call avltree directly. So I have to rewrite these tests. That
will IMO involve a lot of cut and paste.

-- 
Antoon.



From storchaka at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 04:24:53 2016
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 11:24:53 +0300
Subject: How to parameterize unittests
In-Reply-To: <570fb1a3$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <570FA466.20003@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.106.1460642951.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570fb1a3$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <neq8gm$p0n$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 14.04.16 18:05, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 12:08 am, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> I have a unittest for my avltree module.
>>
>> Now I want this unittest to also run on a subclass of avltree.
>> How can I organise this, so that I can largely reuse the
>> original TestCase?
>
>
> class Test_AVLTree(unittest.TestCase):
>      tree = avltree
>
>      def test_empty_tree_is_false(self):
>          instance = self.tree()
>          self.assertFalse(instance)
>
>
> class Test_MySubclassTree(Test_AVLTree):
>      tree = My_Subclass_Tree

Yes, this is common approach.

If there tests specific for original class or tests that there is no 
need to run for subclasses, you should define common tests in mixin 
class that is not test class itself:


class AbstractTest_AVLTree: # note, there is no TestCase!

     def test_common(self):
         ...


class Test_AVLTree(AbstractTest_AVLTree, unittest.TestCase):
      tree = avltree

      def test_base_class_specific(self):
          ...


class Test_MySubclassTree(AbstractTest_AVLTree, unittest.TestCase):
     tree = My_Subclass_Tree

     def test_sub_class_specific(self):
         ...

Complex tests can have a DAG of test classes.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 04:28:21 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 18:28:21 +1000
Subject: How to parameterize unittests
In-Reply-To: <5710A442.8000906@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <570FA466.20003@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.106.1460642951.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570fb1a3$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <57108FAC.3020105@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmreV+Ed722t7mUUC62L2u8gT-CE5K9ASGon1PHMYFdmTQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5710A442.8000906@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpfaz=hp7OCHJ7s5-C53p3zouO18uoegMc7-FN0CEGwYg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 6:20 PM, Antoon Pardon
<antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
> But the tests, at this moment, are not written to instantiate self.tree
> but to call avltree directly. So I have to rewrite these tests. That
> will IMO involve a lot of cut and paste.

Ah. In that case, it either involves a lot of editing (to make them
call self.tree), or monkey-patching the name 'avltree'.

ChrisA


From storchaka at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 04:31:07 2016
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 11:31:07 +0300
Subject: How to parameterize unittests
In-Reply-To: <5710A442.8000906@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <570FA466.20003@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.106.1460642951.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570fb1a3$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <57108FAC.3020105@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmreV+Ed722t7mUUC62L2u8gT-CE5K9ASGon1PHMYFdmTQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5710A442.8000906@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <neq8sb$uqb$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 15.04.16 11:20, Antoon Pardon wrote:
> But the tests, at this moment, are not written to instantiate self.tree
> but to call avltree directly. So I have to rewrite these tests. That
> will IMO involve a lot of cut and paste.

There is yet one approach. Import your original test file, patch it by 
setting it's global avltree to your subclass, run tests. Don't forget to 
restore original values. This approach is more fragile and less 
flexible, but doesn't need modifying the original test.




From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Apr 15 04:35:04 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 18:35:04 +1000
Subject: How to parameterize unittests
References: <570FA466.20003@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.106.1460642951.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570fb1a3$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <57108FAC.3020105@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmreV+Ed722t7mUUC62L2u8gT-CE5K9ASGon1PHMYFdmTQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5710A442.8000906@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <85inzjw9qf.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> writes:

> But the tests, at this moment, are not written to instantiate
> self.tree but to call avltree directly.

That is exactly what the ?TestCase.setUp? method is for: to have the
test case class specify how its test cases will customise themselves.

    class AVLTree_TestCase(unittest.TestCase):
        tree = AVLTree

        def setUp(self):
            super().setUp()
            self.test_instance = self.tree()

        def test_empty_tree_is_false(self):
            self.assertFalse(self.test_instance)


    class LoremIpsumAVLTree_TestCase(AVLTree_TestCase):
        tree = LoremIpsumAVLTree


    class DolorSitAmetAVLTree_TestCase(AVLTree_TestCase):
        tree = DolorSitAmetAVLTree


By not overriding ?setUp?, the same routine will be called in the
subclass's instance also.

> So I have to rewrite these tests.

Yes, you'll need to consider inheritance and how the ?unittest? API
supports it.

-- 
 \       ?Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who |
  `\   speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.? ?Ambrose |
_o__)                           Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_, 1906 |
Ben Finney



From blindanagram at nowhere.net  Fri Apr 15 04:41:19 2016
From: blindanagram at nowhere.net (blindanagram at nowhere.net)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 09:41:19 +0100
Subject: Serious error in int() function?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.121.1460680575.15650.python-list@python.org>
References: <52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306@googlegroups.com>
 <570f3e30$0$665$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
 <Kr2dnVKiXPpT0JLKnZ2dnUU78TXNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
 <zNSdna8abKekzJLKnZ2dnUU78fHNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
 <3MidnT9boJ97GpLKnZ2dnUU78LPNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
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 <mailman.121.1460680575.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5710A92F.3040306@nowhere.net>

On 15/04/2016 01:36, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 13:07:03 +0100, blindanagram at nowhere.net declaimed the
> following:
> 
>> On 14/04/2016 09:13, blindanagram at nowhere.net wrote:
>>> On 14/04/2016 08:59, blindanagram at nowhere.net wrote:
>>>> On 14/04/2016 07:52, ast wrote:
>>>
>>>> This means that the result will be correct provided it has 53 or less
>>>> bits - just short of 16 decimal digits (i.e for square numbers with less
>>>> than 32 digits).
>>>>
>>>> With an integer square root function (isqrt), this program:
>>>>
>>>> for exp in count(20):
>>>>   v = 2 ** exp - 1
>>>>   if isqrt(v) != sqrt(v):
>>>>     print(exp, isqrt(v), sqrt(v))
>>>>     break
>>>>
>>>> terminates with:
>>>>
>>>>   54 18014398509481983 1.8014398509481982e+16
>>>>
>>>> showing a first error for a 54 bit square root
>>>>
>>> I should also have said that the square root of integer squares with
>>> between 15 and 30 decimal digits will only be correct if the square
>>> numbers themselves are exactly representable in 53 bits.  So we can
>>> expect failures for squares with 16 or more digits.
>>
>> However, if a number with 31 or less digits is known to be the square of
>> an integer, the IEEE754 sqrt function will (I believe) give the correct
>> result.
> 
> 	How could it EXCEPT by having ~15 significant digits and an exponent --
> since that is all the data that is provided by a double precision floating
> point. 

It can have up to about 30 significant digits because we know thaat it
is the square of a an integer that is representable in IEEE754 floating
point.

So when we consider its square root we only have to consider the squares
of integers that are representable and find the one that is 'nearest' to
our 30 bit integer.

When x is a representable integer the gap between (x- 1)^2, x^2 and (x +
1)^2 is approximately 2 * x and this means that ~30 digit perfect
squares will have different floating point representations because they
differ by a 15 digit value and will hence differ in their first ~15
significant digits.



From blindanagram at nowhere.net  Fri Apr 15 04:41:19 2016
From: blindanagram at nowhere.net (blindanagram at nowhere.net)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 09:41:19 +0100
Subject: Serious error in int() function?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.121.1460680575.15650.python-list@python.org>
References: <52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306@googlegroups.com>
 <570f3e30$0$665$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
 <Kr2dnVKiXPpT0JLKnZ2dnUU78TXNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
 <zNSdna8abKekzJLKnZ2dnUU78fHNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
 <3MidnT9boJ97GpLKnZ2dnUU78LPNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
 <rid0hbt5r0pm5pjsjadb23g0f6jib2qrtt@4ax.com>
 <mailman.121.1460680575.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5710A92F.3040306@nowhere.net>

On 15/04/2016 01:36, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 13:07:03 +0100, blindanagram at nowhere.net declaimed the
> following:
> 
>> On 14/04/2016 09:13, blindanagram at nowhere.net wrote:
>>> On 14/04/2016 08:59, blindanagram at nowhere.net wrote:
>>>> On 14/04/2016 07:52, ast wrote:
>>>
>>>> This means that the result will be correct provided it has 53 or less
>>>> bits - just short of 16 decimal digits (i.e for square numbers with less
>>>> than 32 digits).
>>>>
>>>> With an integer square root function (isqrt), this program:
>>>>
>>>> for exp in count(20):
>>>>   v = 2 ** exp - 1
>>>>   if isqrt(v) != sqrt(v):
>>>>     print(exp, isqrt(v), sqrt(v))
>>>>     break
>>>>
>>>> terminates with:
>>>>
>>>>   54 18014398509481983 1.8014398509481982e+16
>>>>
>>>> showing a first error for a 54 bit square root
>>>>
>>> I should also have said that the square root of integer squares with
>>> between 15 and 30 decimal digits will only be correct if the square
>>> numbers themselves are exactly representable in 53 bits.  So we can
>>> expect failures for squares with 16 or more digits.
>>
>> However, if a number with 31 or less digits is known to be the square of
>> an integer, the IEEE754 sqrt function will (I believe) give the correct
>> result.
> 
> 	How could it EXCEPT by having ~15 significant digits and an exponent --
> since that is all the data that is provided by a double precision floating
> point. 

It can have up to about 30 significant digits because we know thaat it
is the square of a an integer that is representable in IEEE754 floating
point.

So when we consider its square root we only have to consider the squares
of integers that are representable and find the one that is 'nearest' to
our 30 bit integer.

When x is a representable integer the gap between (x- 1)^2, x^2 and (x +
1)^2 is approximately 2 * x and this means that ~30 digit perfect
squares will have different floating point representations because they
differ by a 15 digit value and will hence differ in their first ~15
significant digits.



From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 15 05:10:20 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 19:10:20 +1000
Subject: How to parameterize unittests
References: <570FA466.20003@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.106.1460642951.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570fb1a3$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <57108FAC.3020105@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmreV+Ed722t7mUUC62L2u8gT-CE5K9ASGon1PHMYFdmTQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5710A442.8000906@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.5.1460708428.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5710affd$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 06:20 pm, Antoon Pardon wrote:

>>>> class Test_MySubclassTree(Test_AVLTree):
>>>> tree = My_Subclass_Tree
>>> I see, that's going to be a lot of cut & pastes.
>>> Thanks.
>> Not really; the first class has all the tests, and the second one is
>> literally just those two lines. It overrides 'tree' (accessed inside
>> methods as 'self.tree'), and since all the tests are written to
>> instantiate self.tree, they are effectively parameterized.
> 
> But the tests, at this moment, are not written to instantiate self.tree
> but to call avltree directly. So I have to rewrite these tests. That
> will IMO involve a lot of cut and paste.


*shrug*

I feel your pain, because I've had to go through exactly the same process.

If you have code which is not parameterized, and you want to parameterize
it, you have to refactor. Unit tests are no different from anything else.

I suggest that you handle it this way:

(1) Start with all your tests passing. If they're not passing, that will
make the process a lot harder. If there are any failing tests, temporarily
re-name them so that they don't run (test_foo to FIXME_test_foo, say), or
use the @unittest.skip decorator.

(2) Go through each TestCase class, and add a simple "tree = avltree" class
attribute to the class. Confirm that the tests still pass.

(3) In your editor, run a global Find and Replace "avltree -> self.tree".
You will need to inspect each one rather than do it automatically.
Obviously you need to avoid changing the "tree = avltree" class attribute,
and any import lines, but probably everything else should change.

(4) Run the tests again. Hopefully everything will work perfectly, and all
the tests will pass, but if not, fix any that have been broken by the
refactoring.

(5) Once all the tests pass again, the refactoring is complete, and you can
start subclassing your test classes with the new parameterized tree.



-- 
Steven



From robin at reportlab.com  Fri Apr 15 05:24:53 2016
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 10:24:53 +0100
Subject: sum accuracy
In-Reply-To: <1460567110.3933817.577783969.165F6097@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <570E78F9.8050409@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <1460567110.3933817.577783969.165F6097@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <5710B365.5040903@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

On 13/04/2016 18:05, Random832 wrote:
.........
>
> No, it doesn't. Sum works on any type that can be added (except
> strings), it can't make any assumptions about the characteristics of
> floating point types. For non-numeric types, the addition operator may
> not be semantically commutative or associative.
>
I thought as much. My problem was that the sum of an array of small floats was 
being used to compute a grid of points by subtraction like this

height = sum(H)
pos = [height]
for h in H:
	height -= h
	pos.append(height)

the value of height[0] came out negative which was a problem. I could reduce the 
error by using Kahan summation instead of sum, but that required Kahan style 
subtraction as well. In the end it just seemed better to reverse the loop and 
compute pos by addition.


> Look at
> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/393090-binary-floating-point-summation-accurate-to-full-p/
> for an example of a more accurate algorithm, but note that, for example,
> this algorithm wouldn't work on complex numbers (you'd have to sum the
> real and imaginary components separately)
>
yes indeed summation is hard :(

-- 
Robin Becker



From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 05:36:02 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 10:36:02 +0100
Subject: sum accuracy
In-Reply-To: <5710B365.5040903@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
References: <570E78F9.8050409@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <1460567110.3933817.577783969.165F6097@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <5710B365.5040903@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxSub2Z2j6eedm3zQr7v2aYWMhmGYzXTtx+SPrcAFgXFtw@mail.gmail.com>

On 15 April 2016 at 10:24, Robin Becker <robin at reportlab.com> wrote:
> On 13/04/2016 18:05, Random832 wrote:
> .........
>>
>>
>> No, it doesn't. Sum works on any type that can be added (except
>> strings), it can't make any assumptions about the characteristics of
>> floating point types. For non-numeric types, the addition operator may
>> not be semantically commutative or associative.
>>
> I thought as much. My problem was that the sum of an array of small floats
> was being used to compute a grid of points by subtraction like this
>
> height = sum(H)
> pos = [height]
> for h in H:
>         height -= h
>         pos.append(height)
>
> the value of height[0] came out negative which was a problem. I could reduce
> the error by using Kahan summation instead of sum, but that required Kahan
> style subtraction as well. In the end it just seemed better to reverse the
> loop and compute pos by addition.
>
>
>> Look at
>>
>> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/393090-binary-floating-point-summation-accurate-to-full-p/
>> for an example of a more accurate algorithm, but note that, for example,
>> this algorithm wouldn't work on complex numbers (you'd have to sum the
>> real and imaginary components separately)
>>
> yes indeed summation is hard :(

Not with Fraction it isn't:

from fractions import Fraction

def exact_sum(nums):
    return sum(map(Fraction, nums))

This will give you the exact result with precisely zero rounding
error. You can convert it to float at the end.

--
Oscar


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 06:05:28 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 10:05:28 +0000
Subject: How to parameterize unittests
In-Reply-To: <5710affd$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <570FA466.20003@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.106.1460642951.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570fb1a3$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <57108FAC.3020105@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmreV+Ed722t7mUUC62L2u8gT-CE5K9ASGon1PHMYFdmTQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5710A442.8000906@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.5.1460708428.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <5710affd$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkMH5KBqywMdxepN+p2T6FEF9e3DaoaQhL1UQNV79KZRrw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016, 11:16 AM Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:

> On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 06:20 pm, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
> >>> I see, that's going to be a lot of cut & pastes.
>
> (3) In your editor, run a global Find and Replace "avltree -> self.tree".
> You will need to inspect each one rather than do it automatically.
> Obviously you need to avoid changing the "tree = avltree" class attribute,
> and any import lines, but probably everything else should change.
>

There's probably some context around uses of avltree that should be
replaced. Perhaps a trailing dot: "avltree." replace with "self.tree." so
imports and assignments are ignored.

Also, your other, very helpful steps should minimize the trial and error
aspects of global find-replace. I wouldn't feel obligated to visually
inspect each one -- not on my first try, anyway.

>


From ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk  Fri Apr 15 06:10:36 2016
From: ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk (Ben Bacarisse)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 11:10:36 +0100
Subject: sum accuracy
References: <570E78F9.8050409@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <1460567110.3933817.577783969.165F6097@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <5710B365.5040903@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <CAHVvXxSub2Z2j6eedm3zQr7v2aYWMhmGYzXTtx+SPrcAFgXFtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.11.1460712984.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87d1prw5b7.fsf@bsb.me.uk>

Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> writes:

> On 15 April 2016 at 10:24, Robin Becker <robin at reportlab.com> wrote:
<snip>
>> yes indeed summation is hard :(
>
> Not with Fraction it isn't:
>
> from fractions import Fraction
>
> def exact_sum(nums):
>     return sum(map(Fraction, nums))
>
> This will give you the exact result with precisely zero rounding
> error. You can convert it to float at the end.

Just a word of warning for people new to numerical work: there's no
rounding error, but unless you start with Fraction objects you still
have input or conversion errors.  The uninitiated might expect

  exact_sum([0.3, 0.7])

to be 1.

-- 
Ben.


From cshintov at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 06:25:39 2016
From: cshintov at gmail.com (cshintov at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 03:25:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python garbage collection: not releasing memory to OS!
Message-ID: <215cf2a4-c2fa-41d0-8c49-23b9494234d4@googlegroups.com>

I have written an application with flask and uses celery for a long running task. While load testing I noticed that the celery tasks are not releasing memory even after completing the task. So I googled and found this group discussion..

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/celery-users/jVc3I3kPtlw

In that discussion it says, thats how python works.

Also the article at https://hbfs.wordpress.com/2013/01/08/python-memory-management-part-ii/ says  

"But from the OS's perspective, your program's size is the total (maximum) memory allocated to Python. Since Python returns memory to the OS on the heap (that allocates other objects than small objects) only on Windows, if you run on Linux, you can only see the total memory used by your program increase."

And I use Linux. So I wrote the below script to verify it.

    import gc
    def memory_usage_psutil():
        # return the memory usage in MB
        import resource
        print 'Memory usage: %s (MB)' % (resource.getrusage(resource.RUSAGE_SELF).ru_maxrss / 1000.0)
    
    def fileopen(fname):
        memory_usage_psutil()# 10 MB
        f = open(fname)
        memory_usage_psutil()# 10 MB
        content = f.read()
        memory_usage_psutil()# 14 MB
    
    def fun(fname):
        memory_usage_psutil() # 10 MB
        fileopen(fname)
        gc.collect()
        memory_usage_psutil() # 14 MB
       
    import sys
    from time import sleep
    if __name__ == '__main__':
        fun(sys.argv[1])
        for _ in range(60):
            gc.collect()
            memory_usage_psutil()#14 MB ...
            sleep(1)

The input was a 4MB file. Even after returning from the 'fileopen' function the 4MB memory was not released. I checked htop output while the loop was running, the resident memory stays at 14MB. So unless the process is stopped the memory stays with it.

So if the celery worker is not killed after its task is finished it is going to keep the memory for itself. I know I can use **max_tasks_per_child** config value to kill the process and spawn a new one. **Is there any other way to return the memory to OS from a python process?.**


From tony at vanderhoff.org  Fri Apr 15 06:39:45 2016
From: tony at vanderhoff.org (Tony van der Hoff)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 11:39:45 +0100
Subject: sum accuracy
In-Reply-To: <87d1prw5b7.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
References: <570E78F9.8050409@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <1460567110.3933817.577783969.165F6097@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <5710B365.5040903@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <CAHVvXxSub2Z2j6eedm3zQr7v2aYWMhmGYzXTtx+SPrcAFgXFtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.11.1460712984.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87d1prw5b7.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
Message-ID: <5710C4F1.8050805@vanderhoff.org>

On 15/04/16 11:10, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 15 April 2016 at 10:24, Robin Becker <robin at reportlab.com> wrote:
> <snip>
>>> yes indeed summation is hard :(
>>
>> Not with Fraction it isn't:
>>
>> from fractions import Fraction
>>
>> def exact_sum(nums):
>>      return sum(map(Fraction, nums))
>>
>> This will give you the exact result with precisely zero rounding
>> error. You can convert it to float at the end.
>
> Just a word of warning for people new to numerical work: there's no
> rounding error, but unless you start with Fraction objects you still
> have input or conversion errors.  The uninitiated might expect
>
>    exact_sum([0.3, 0.7])
>
> to be 1.
>

So I'm uninitiated:
NameError: name 'exact_sum' is not defined

I appreciate the word of warning, but, in my case, it's not helpful.

-- 
Tony van der Hoff        | mailto:tony at vanderhoff.org
Buckinghamshire, England |


From johnhpote at o2.co.uk  Fri Apr 15 07:05:18 2016
From: johnhpote at o2.co.uk (John Pote)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 12:05:18 +0100
Subject: Serious error in int() function?
In-Reply-To: <nepk0u$pag$1@dont-email.me>
References: <52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306@googlegroups.com>
 <570f3e30$0$665$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
 <Kr2dnVKiXPpT0JLKnZ2dnUU78TXNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
 <zNSdna8abKekzJLKnZ2dnUU78fHNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
 <3MidnT9boJ97GpLKnZ2dnUU78LPNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
 <rid0hbt5r0pm5pjsjadb23g0f6jib2qrtt@4ax.com>
 <mailman.121.1460680575.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <nepk0u$pag$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <5710CAEE.4080406@o2.co.uk>



On 15/04/2016 03:38, Christian Gollwitzer wrote:
> Am 15.04.16 um 02:36 schrieb Dennis Lee Bieber:
>>>> I should also have said that the square root of integer squares with
>>>> between 15 and 30 decimal digits will only be correct if the square
>>>> numbers themselves are exactly representable in 53 bits.  So we can
>>>> expect failures for squares with 16 or more digits.
>>>
>>> However, if a number with 31 or less digits is known to be the 
>>> square of
>>> an integer, the IEEE754 sqrt function will (I believe) give the correct
>>> result.
>>
>>     How could it EXCEPT by having ~15 significant digits and an 
>> exponent --
>> since that is all the data that is provided by a double precision 
>> floating
>> point. That is, for example,
>>
>>>>> 1000000000000000.0 * 1000000000000000.0
>> 1e+30
>>>>> import math
>>>>> math.sqrt(1e30)
>> 1000000000000000.0
>>>>>
>>
>> only has ONE significant digit -- even though it has thirty 0s before 
>> the
>> decimal point.
>
As I was taught in school and university the number of significant 
digits are the number of digits written after the point, be that 
decinal, binary or any other base. But away from the world of 
mathematics and strict engineering we often refer to the number of 
significant digits as the number of digits that have significance in the 
value of the quantity being represented. eg a temperature or voltage.
For example we might say that a 10 bit analogue to digital converter 
has, in binary, 10 significant digits and in decimal approximately 3. 
What can be confusing here is that if readings from such a converter are 
writen down as whole numbers with a decimal point
     1.0, 2.0 ..... 1023.0
then the readings are /shown /with 1 significant digit.
We could equally write them
     1.00, 2.00 ..... 1023.00
and they are now shown to 2 significant digits. Of course these trailing 
0s are of no practical 'significance' as the ADC cannot affect them. 
Indeed it would not even output them.
So context is everything. Care needs to be taken in understanding the 
use of this term by writers and readers that the context is clear, are 
binary or decimal digits being refered to, are we using 'significant' 
digits in the strict mathematical/engineering sense or a more colloquial 
sense.
Then again we might write 1023.0 in an exponent form
0?1023.10^4    ( 0 point 1023 times 10 to the power 4)
in which case we would say the reading is shown to 4 significant digits

> No, you need to count the significant digits in binary. 1e30 is not an 
> even number in binary floating point.
How so? Whether or not an integer is odd or even has nothing to do with 
its representation in binary of decimal, floating point or integer. If 
you mean the mantissa is odd that may well be true. But the exponent may 
also shift the mantissa left by on1 place or more. In which case the 
value the floating point number is holding must be even. (it is 
multiplied by 2^n where n >= 1)
My Python 2.7.9 does this
 >>> "%50.10f"%1e30
'        1000000000000000019884624838656.0000000000'
 >>>
This indicates that 1e30 is not representable in Python's floating point 
representation.

John
> Apfelkiste:AsynCA chris$ bc
> bc 1.06
> Copyright 1991-1994, 1997, 1998, 2000 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
> This is free software with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY.
> For details type `warranty'.
> obase=2
> 10^30
> 11001001111100101100100111001101000001000110011101001110110111101010\
> 01000000000000000000000000000000
> sqrt(10^30)
> 11100011010111111010100100110001101000000000000000
>
> Still, the floating point arithmetic should round to the correct 
> answer if both are converted to decimal.
>
>     Christian
>
>



From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Fri Apr 15 07:31:12 2016
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 14:31:12 +0300
Subject: sum accuracy
References: <570E78F9.8050409@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <1460567110.3933817.577783969.165F6097@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <5710B365.5040903@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <CAHVvXxSub2Z2j6eedm3zQr7v2aYWMhmGYzXTtx+SPrcAFgXFtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.11.1460712984.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87d1prw5b7.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <5710C4F1.8050805@vanderhoff.org>
 <mailman.13.1460717963.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lf5ega7un0f.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Tony van der Hoff writes:
> On 15/04/16 11:10, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 15 April 2016 at 10:24, Robin Becker <robin at reportlab.com> wrote:
>> <snip>
>>>> yes indeed summation is hard :(
>>>
>>> Not with Fraction it isn't:
>>>
>>> from fractions import Fraction
>>>
>>> def exact_sum(nums):
>>>      return sum(map(Fraction, nums))
>>>
>>> This will give you the exact result with precisely zero rounding
>>> error. You can convert it to float at the end.
>>
>> Just a word of warning for people new to numerical work: there's no
>> rounding error, but unless you start with Fraction objects you still
>> have input or conversion errors.  The uninitiated might expect
>>
>>    exact_sum([0.3, 0.7])
>>
>> to be 1.
>>
>
> So I'm uninitiated:
> NameError: name 'exact_sum' is not defined
>
> I appreciate the word of warning, but, in my case, it's not helpful.

There's a reason Ben included some context.

His point is that Fraction(0.3) is not equal to Fraction(3, 10). That in
turn is because the floating point number differs a little from the
mathematical ideal, and the representation of that floating point number
as a Fraction in Python preserves that difference.

Try Fraction(0.3), Fraction("0.3"), Fraction(3, 10), Fraction(3)/10 and
see for yourself.

Also, Fraction(0.3).limit_denominator() gives Fraction(3, 10). See the
documentation.


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Fri Apr 15 07:43:22 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 13:43:22 +0200
Subject: How to parameterize unittests
In-Reply-To: <5710affd$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <570FA466.20003@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.106.1460642951.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570fb1a3$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <57108FAC.3020105@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmreV+Ed722t7mUUC62L2u8gT-CE5K9ASGon1PHMYFdmTQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5710A442.8000906@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.5.1460708428.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <5710affd$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <5710D3DA.6030005@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 15-04-16 om 11:10 schreef Steven D'Aprano:
> If you have code which is not parameterized, and you want to parameterize
> it, you have to refactor. Unit tests are no different from anything else.

I don't agree with that. If I have a piece of code that I want to parameterize,
Often enough all I need to do is shift the code to the right. Prepend a def
line and use a parameter with the same name as the more global variable I
was using before. I don't need to change access to the variable in the code.

If python would treat class variable as a scope between methods and the
rest, something equally simple might have worked here. But that is another
discussions.

[Sensible suggestions removed.]

-- 
Antoon Pardon



From srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 07:46:00 2016
From: srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com (durgadevi1)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 04:46:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to XOR a byte output?
In-Reply-To: <387506b1-b645-4907-a45c-81a8c3043099@googlegroups.com>
References: <387506b1-b645-4907-a45c-81a8c3043099@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9013f588-383f-4c74-a354-9cba77a2ae70@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 13, 2016 at 9:18:37 PM UTC+8, durgadevi1 wrote:
> Hi all, 
> 
> I have a doubt regarding a problem.
> 
> First, I am required to read a given file.
> 
> 
> The output from the file is given below:
> 
> b'$//W?\xc0\x829\xa2\xb9\x13\x8c\xd5{\'
> 
> 
> I used the type() to identify the class and its a byte class.
> 
> I saw many \x and thought it might be hex.
> 
> 
> So, I used binascii.hexlify() and got the following output:
> b'242f2f573fc08239a2b9138cd57b'
> 
> Now, this output is being encrypted and I need to perform an XOR operation on it in order to retrieve a secret message.
> 
> But, I'm not sure how to code the XOR operation. How do I code that?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> PS: I'm not sure if I have done any mistake along the way. That's why I have mentioned all the steps that I've done. Let me know if I have done any step wrongly. :)

Ok thanks guys :)


From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Fri Apr 15 07:50:55 2016
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 11:50:55 GMT
Subject: Serious error in int() function?
References: <52f7516c-8601-4252-ab16-bc30c59c8306@googlegroups.com>
 <570f3e30$0$665$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
 <Kr2dnVKiXPpT0JLKnZ2dnUU78TXNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
 <zNSdna8abKekzJLKnZ2dnUU78fHNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
 <3MidnT9boJ97GpLKnZ2dnUU78LPNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
 <rid0hbt5r0pm5pjsjadb23g0f6jib2qrtt@4ax.com>
 <mailman.121.1460680575.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <nepk0u$pag$1@dont-email.me> <5710CAEE.4080406@o2.co.uk>
 <mailman.14.1460718334.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <zA4Qy.239300$kw.233873@fx34.am4>

On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 12:05:18 +0100, John Pote wrote:

> On 15/04/2016 03:38, Christian Gollwitzer wrote:
>> Am 15.04.16 um 02:36 schrieb Dennis Lee Bieber:
>>>>> I should also have said that the square root of integer squares with
>>>>> between 15 and 30 decimal digits will only be correct if the square
>>>>> numbers themselves are exactly representable in 53 bits.  So we can
>>>>> expect failures for squares with 16 or more digits.
>>>>
>>>> However, if a number with 31 or less digits is known to be the square
>>>> of an integer, the IEEE754 sqrt function will (I believe) give the
>>>> correct result.
>>>
>>>     How could it EXCEPT by having ~15 significant digits and an
>>> exponent --
>>> since that is all the data that is provided by a double precision
>>> floating point. That is, for example,
>>>
>>>>>> 1000000000000000.0 * 1000000000000000.0
>>> 1e+30
>>>>>> import math math.sqrt(1e30)
>>> 1000000000000000.0
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> only has ONE significant digit -- even though it has thirty 0s before
>>> the decimal point.
>>
> As I was taught in school and university the number of significant
> digits are the number of digits written after the point, be that
> decinal, binary or any other base. 

Then I would complain to your education regulator

Significant digits are the 1st X digits in the number (with rounding) 
after converting to standard form.

examples to 3 significant digits

Number	Standard form	3 Significat digits

10	1.0e1		1.00e1 = 10.0
100	1.0e2		1.00e2 = 100
3.14159	3.14159e0	3.14e0	= 3.14
0.01777	1.777e-2	1.78e-2	= 0.0178


-- 
Take your work seriously but never take yourself seriously; and do not
take what happens either to yourself or your work seriously.
		-- Booth Tarkington


From asimkostas at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 08:13:01 2016
From: asimkostas at gmail.com (asimkon .)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 15:13:01 +0300
Subject: Static files load problem Django 1.9
Message-ID: <CA+9XG=MV-kxnJFv5D8z_Gh_xWmu4CyqUoM+dHzDd3oqOmcdo5w@mail.gmail.com>

I have got a problem with static files regarding Django 1.9. These files
are (js,css)  in the standard folder static, inside project folder
directory. I got an error Http 404 that can not be loaded.

Project folder / static / css / several files *.css
                    /static / js / several files   *.js
                     several_apps

i have executed the python manage.py collectstatic

settings.py

STATIC_URL = '/static/'

STATIC_ROOT = os.path.join(BASE_DIR, "static")

STATICFILES_DIRS = (

    os.path.join(BASE_DIR, 'static'),
)

and of course  as INSTALLED_APPS

'django.contrib.staticfiles',

Sorry for my template (at the beginning of my work):

{% load  staticfiles %}

<html>
    <head>
        <link rel="stylesheet"  href="{% static 'css/jquery-ui.css' %}">
        <link rel="stylesheet"  href="{% static 'css/ui.jqgrid.css' %}">
        <script src="{% static 'js/jquery-1.11.0.min.js' %}"
type="text/javascript"> </script>
        <script src="{% static 'js/jquery.jqGrid.min.js' %}"
type="text/javascript"> </script>
        <script src="{% static 'js/grid.locale-el.js' %}"
type="text/javascript"> </script>
        <script src="{% static 'js/category.js' %}" type="text/javascript">
</script>
    </head>
    <body>

        <table id="grid"></table>
        <div id="pager"></div>

    </body>
</html>

but i am afraid the problem lies in urls.py (i do not know what to do)

http://127.0.0.1:8000/static/css/file_name  (in the firebug  network) but i
can not open it directly via server.

urls.py

urlpatterns = [
    url(r'^admin/', admin.site.urls),
    url(r'^hello/','category.views.hello'),
]


Any kind of help would be convenient to me?

Kind Regards
Kostas Asimakopoulos


From srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 08:13:03 2016
From: srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com (durgadevi1)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 05:13:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to print a part of a string?
Message-ID: <edfe7d06-e8b1-4cef-92c3-2d1a217ebdac@googlegroups.com>

Hello all,

I have another homework problem.

I have a textfile. It contains lines of string.

I am required to only print out a certain part of the string.

For example the textfile contain:

ABC XXXXX NNNNN
BCD QQQQQ EEEEE
ABC WWWWW AAAAA


I need to print all the parts that come after only ABC.

That means I need to print only XXXXX from the first line and WWWWW from the second line. 

I'm not sure of what code to use to achieve that.


From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 08:28:38 2016
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 08:28:38 -0400
Subject: How to print a part of a string?
In-Reply-To: <edfe7d06-e8b1-4cef-92c3-2d1a217ebdac@googlegroups.com>
References: <edfe7d06-e8b1-4cef-92c3-2d1a217ebdac@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+z-2Puc9HwS7gxz7CSA8h0fLw+p5bVfmdh33RZ17X02dA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 8:13 AM, durgadevi1
<srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I have another homework problem.
>
> I have a textfile. It contains lines of string.
>
> I am required to only print out a certain part of the string.
>
> For example the textfile contain:
>
> ABC XXXXX NNNNN
> BCD QQQQQ EEEEE
> ABC WWWWW AAAAA
>
>
> I need to print all the parts that come after only ABC.
>
> That means I need to print only XXXXX from the first line and WWWWW from the second line.
>
> I'm not sure of what code to use to achieve that.
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

do you know how to open the file and do a for loop to get each line in
the string?

If you do, do you know about this:

>>> s = "ABC XXXXX NNNNN"
>>> s_split = s.split()
>>> s_split
['ABC', 'XXXXX', 'NNNNN']
>>> s_split[0]
'ABC'
>>>



-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays


From Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com  Fri Apr 15 08:40:06 2016
From: Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com (Joaquin Alzola)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 12:40:06 +0000
Subject: How to print a part of a string?
In-Reply-To: <edfe7d06-e8b1-4cef-92c3-2d1a217ebdac@googlegroups.com>
References: <edfe7d06-e8b1-4cef-92c3-2d1a217ebdac@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR07MB135606E28C49F0FEA51D0D8EF0680@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>

list_append = []

with open('filename') as f:
for line in f:
t_line = line.split(' ')
if (t_line[0] == 'ABC'):
print(t_line[1])
list_append.append(t_line[1])


-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+joaquin.alzola=lebara.com at python.org] On Behalf Of durgadevi1
Sent: 15 April 2016 13:13
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: How to print a part of a string?

Hello all,

I have another homework problem.

I have a textfile. It contains lines of string.

I am required to only print out a certain part of the string.

For example the textfile contain:

ABC XXXXX NNNNN
BCD QQQQQ EEEEE
ABC WWWWW AAAAA


I need to print all the parts that come after only ABC.

That means I need to print only XXXXX from the first line and WWWWW from the second line.

I'm not sure of what code to use to achieve that.
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
This email is confidential and may be subject to privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not copy or disclose its content but contact the sender immediately upon receipt.


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Fri Apr 15 08:48:11 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 14:48:11 +0200
Subject: How to parameterize unittests
In-Reply-To: <5710D3DA.6030005@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <570FA466.20003@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.106.1460642951.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570fb1a3$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <57108FAC.3020105@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmreV+Ed722t7mUUC62L2u8gT-CE5K9ASGon1PHMYFdmTQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5710A442.8000906@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.5.1460708428.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <5710affd$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <5710D3DA.6030005@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <5710E30B.6050304@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 15-04-16 om 13:43 schreef Antoon Pardon:
> Op 15-04-16 om 11:10 schreef Steven D'Aprano:
>> If you have code which is not parameterized, and you want to parameterize
>> it, you have to refactor. Unit tests are no different from anything else.
> I don't agree with that. If I have a piece of code that I want to parameterize,
> Often enough all I need to do is shift the code to the right. Prepend a def
> line and use a parameter with the same name as the more global variable I
> was using before. I don't need to change access to the variable in the code.

Some prelimary tests seems to suggest this idea might work here too.

Starting from this:

    class Test_AVLTree(unittest.TestCase):
 
        def test_empty_tree_is_false(self):
            instance = avltree()
            self.assertFalse(instance)

Changing it into this:

    def MakeAVLTest(avltree):
        class Test_AVLTree(unittest.TestCase):

            def test_empty_tree_is_false(self):
                instance = avltree()
                self.assertFalse(instance)

        return Test_AVLTree

    AVLTest = MakeAVLTest(avltree)
    MyTreeTest = MakeAVLTest(mytree)

Seems to work




From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 09:02:30 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 14:02:30 +0100
Subject: Python garbage collection: not releasing memory to OS!
In-Reply-To: <215cf2a4-c2fa-41d0-8c49-23b9494234d4@googlegroups.com>
References: <215cf2a4-c2fa-41d0-8c49-23b9494234d4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxT+Mptniik3PYOqESkqTyHqNDZBqCByxtNevfXf_-k6aA@mail.gmail.com>

On 15 April 2016 at 11:25,  <cshintov at gmail.com> wrote:
> The input was a 4MB file. Even after returning from the 'fileopen' function the 4MB memory was not released. I checked htop output while the loop was running, the resident memory stays at 14MB. So unless the process is stopped the memory stays with it.

When exactly memory gets freed to the OS is unclear but it's possible
that your process can reuse the same bits of memory. The real question
is whether continuously allocating and deallocating leads to steadily
growing memory usage. If you change it so that your code calls fun
inside the loop you will see that repeatedly calling fun does not lead
to growing memory usage.

> So if the celery worker is not killed after its task is finished it is going to keep the memory for itself. I know I can use **max_tasks_per_child** config value to kill the process and spawn a new one. **Is there any other way to return the memory to OS from a python process?.**

I don't really understand what you're asking here. You're running
celery in a subprocess right? Is the problem about the memory used by
subprocesses that aren't killed or is it the memory usage of the
Python process?

--
Oscar


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 09:49:19 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 14:49:19 +0100
Subject: sum accuracy
In-Reply-To: <87d1prw5b7.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
References: <570E78F9.8050409@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <1460567110.3933817.577783969.165F6097@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <5710B365.5040903@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <CAHVvXxSub2Z2j6eedm3zQr7v2aYWMhmGYzXTtx+SPrcAFgXFtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.11.1460712984.6324.python-list@python.org> <87d1prw5b7.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxTe-2ABYmGkAz9nb3xsr-a3t1kDHA=VmqBQ-pYpp1XziA@mail.gmail.com>

On 15 April 2016 at 11:10, Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk> wrote:
> Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 15 April 2016 at 10:24, Robin Becker <robin at reportlab.com> wrote:
> <snip>
>>> yes indeed summation is hard :(
>>
>> Not with Fraction it isn't:
>>
>> from fractions import Fraction
>>
>> def exact_sum(nums):
>>     return sum(map(Fraction, nums))
>>
>> This will give you the exact result with precisely zero rounding
>> error. You can convert it to float at the end.
>
> Just a word of warning for people new to numerical work: there's no
> rounding error, but unless you start with Fraction objects you still
> have input or conversion errors.

There are no conversion errors in the Fraction constructor. This will
exactly sum any combination of int/float/Fraction/Decimal without
errors. (It will raise ValueError on nan/inf but I consider that a
good thing).

> The uninitiated might expect
>
>   exact_sum([0.3, 0.7])
>
> to be 1.

That's true but I wanted to correct the impression (from above) that
*converting* to Fraction is a source of rounding error. It is your
responsibility to give exact_sum the exact numbers that you want to
add.

You can even use strings if you want to write numbers in decimal:

    exact_sum(['0.3', '0.7'])

--
Oscar


From torriem at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 09:59:47 2016
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 07:59:47 -0600
Subject: Python garbage collection: not releasing memory to OS!
In-Reply-To: <215cf2a4-c2fa-41d0-8c49-23b9494234d4@googlegroups.com>
References: <215cf2a4-c2fa-41d0-8c49-23b9494234d4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5710F3D3.7010603@gmail.com>

On 04/15/2016 04:25 AM, cshintov at gmail.com wrote:
> The input was a 4MB file. Even after returning from the 'fileopen'
> function the 4MB memory was not released. I checked htop output while
> the loop was running, the resident memory stays at 14MB. So unless
> the process is stopped the memory stays with it.

I guess the question is, why is this a problem?  If there are no leaks,
then I confess I don't understand what your concern is.  And indeed you
say it's not leaking as it never rises above 14 MB.

Also there are ways of reading a file without allocating huge amounts of
memory.  Why not read it in in chunks, or in lines.  Take advantage of
Python's generator facilities to process your data.

> So if the celery worker is not killed after its task is finished it
> is going to keep the memory for itself. I know I can use
> **max_tasks_per_child** config value to kill the process and spawn a
> new one. **Is there any other way to return the memory to OS from a
> python process?.**

Have you tried using the subprocess module of python? If I understand it
correctly, this would allow you to run python code as a subprocess
(completely separate process), which would be completely reaped by the
OS when it's finished.



From D.Strohl at F5.com  Fri Apr 15 10:27:38 2016
From: D.Strohl at F5.com (Dan Strohl)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 14:27:38 +0000
Subject: How to print a part of a string?
In-Reply-To: <edfe7d06-e8b1-4cef-92c3-2d1a217ebdac@googlegroups.com>
References: <edfe7d06-e8b1-4cef-92c3-2d1a217ebdac@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <edbd324de7cb45eab05432ccbe2aa0c3@seaexchmbx03.olympus.F5Net.com>

As with lots of things in python, there are lots of ways of approaching this, here are some hints for you to think about (in no particular order):

- REGEX 
- replace()
- string[:y]
- split()

And of course, you could consider creating a table with every possible string that could start with "ABC", and it's matching non-"ABC" string, then lookup the string in the table and get your match, it's a bit brute forcey, but it would work (eventually) <grin>

Good luck in your homework!

Dan




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+d.strohl=f5.com at python.org]
> On Behalf Of durgadevi1
> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 5:13 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: How to print a part of a string?
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I have another homework problem.
> 
> I have a textfile. It contains lines of string.
> 
> I am required to only print out a certain part of the string.
> 
> For example the textfile contain:
> 
> ABC XXXXX NNNNN
> BCD QQQQQ EEEEE
> ABC WWWWW AAAAA
> 
> 
> I need to print all the parts that come after only ABC.
> 
> That means I need to print only XXXXX from the first line and WWWWW from
> the second line.
> 
> I'm not sure of what code to use to achieve that.
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From python at net153.net  Fri Apr 15 10:27:44 2016
From: python at net153.net (Sam)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 09:27:44 -0500
Subject: Python garbage collection: not releasing memory to OS!
In-Reply-To: <215cf2a4-c2fa-41d0-8c49-23b9494234d4@googlegroups.com>
References: <215cf2a4-c2fa-41d0-8c49-23b9494234d4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5710FA60.4070704@net153.net>

On 04/15/2016 05:25 AM, cshintov at gmail.com wrote:
> I have written an application with flask and uses celery for a long running task. While load testing I noticed that the celery tasks are not releasing memory even after completing the task. So I googled and found this group discussion..
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/celery-users/jVc3I3kPtlw
>
> In that discussion it says, thats how python works.
>
> Also the article at https://hbfs.wordpress.com/2013/01/08/python-memory-management-part-ii/ says
>
> "But from the OS's perspective, your program's size is the total (maximum) memory allocated to Python. Since Python returns memory to the OS on the heap (that allocates other objects than small objects) only on Windows, if you run on Linux, you can only see the total memory used by your program increase."
>
> And I use Linux. So I wrote the below script to verify it.
>
>      import gc
>      def memory_usage_psutil():
>          # return the memory usage in MB
>          import resource
>          print 'Memory usage: %s (MB)' % (resource.getrusage(resource.RUSAGE_SELF).ru_maxrss / 1000.0)
>
>      def fileopen(fname):
>          memory_usage_psutil()# 10 MB
>          f = open(fname)
>          memory_usage_psutil()# 10 MB
>          content = f.read()
>          memory_usage_psutil()# 14 MB
>
>      def fun(fname):
>          memory_usage_psutil() # 10 MB
>          fileopen(fname)
>          gc.collect()
>          memory_usage_psutil() # 14 MB
>
>      import sys
>      from time import sleep
>      if __name__ == '__main__':
>          fun(sys.argv[1])
>          for _ in range(60):
>              gc.collect()
>              memory_usage_psutil()#14 MB ...
>              sleep(1)
>
> The input was a 4MB file. Even after returning from the 'fileopen' function the 4MB memory was not released. I checked htop output while the loop was running, the resident memory stays at 14MB. So unless the process is stopped the memory stays with it.
>
> So if the celery worker is not killed after its task is finished it is going to keep the memory for itself. I know I can use **max_tasks_per_child** config value to kill the process and spawn a new one. **Is there any other way to return the memory to OS from a python process?.**
>


With situations like this, I normally just fork and do the mem intensive 
work in the child and then kill it off when done. Might be  able to use 
a thread instead of a fork. But not sure how well all that would work 
with celery.

--Sam


From wrh8609 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 10:37:55 2016
From: wrh8609 at gmail.com (wrh8609 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 07:37:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: help install numpy and scipy in window 7 and 3.5.0 shell
Message-ID: <da6a5052-1721-40e0-8f4b-2ddffafe62c7@googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

I have downloaded the numpy-1.11.01 and scipy-0.17.0 but after running setup files over IDLE in numpy and scipy, it still can not get through. Can someone give me a hand? or you can provide the installation instruction for both.

Thanks,
Wen-Ruey



From bgailer at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 10:56:05 2016
From: bgailer at gmail.com (Bob Gailer)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 10:56:05 -0400
Subject: help install numpy and scipy in window 7 and 3.5.0 shell
In-Reply-To: <da6a5052-1721-40e0-8f4b-2ddffafe62c7@googlegroups.com>
References: <da6a5052-1721-40e0-8f4b-2ddffafe62c7@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1rxO7RPQoH2taeaYZ4crE0WrLswF4CwwnbMU5EvmzZ3kPPqw@mail.gmail.com>

On Apr 15, 2016 10:40 AM, <wrh8609 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have downloaded the numpy-1.11.01 and scipy-0.17.0 but after running
setup files over IDLE in numpy and scipy, it still can not get through. Can
someone give me a hand? or you can provide the installation instruction for
both.

Can you be more specific? "Can not get through" is not very informative.
What opeting system are you using? What version of python? What messages or
symptoms do you get? The more you help us the easier it is for us to help
you. We do welcome your questions thank you


From walters.justin01 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 11:24:29 2016
From: walters.justin01 at gmail.com (justin walters)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 08:24:29 -0700
Subject: Static files load problem Django 1.9
In-Reply-To: <CA+9XG=MV-kxnJFv5D8z_Gh_xWmu4CyqUoM+dHzDd3oqOmcdo5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+9XG=MV-kxnJFv5D8z_Gh_xWmu4CyqUoM+dHzDd3oqOmcdo5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO1D73F=JKKp828vOEOihNtRYXFmx6wHSmHwS_tKVTVSa0OMJw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 5:13 AM, asimkon . <asimkostas at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have got a problem with static files regarding Django 1.9. These files
> are (js,css)  in the standard folder static, inside project folder
> directory. I got an error Http 404 that can not be loaded.
>
> Project folder / static / css / several files *.css
>                     /static / js / several files   *.js
>                      several_apps
>
> i have executed the python manage.py collectstatic
>
> settings.py
>
> STATIC_URL = '/static/'
>
> STATIC_ROOT = os.path.join(BASE_DIR, "static")
>
> STATICFILES_DIRS = (
>
>     os.path.join(BASE_DIR, 'static'),
> )
>
> and of course  as INSTALLED_APPS
>
> 'django.contrib.staticfiles',
>
> Sorry for my template (at the beginning of my work):
>
> {% load  staticfiles %}
>
> <html>
>     <head>
>         <link rel="stylesheet"  href="{% static 'css/jquery-ui.css' %}">
>         <link rel="stylesheet"  href="{% static 'css/ui.jqgrid.css' %}">
>         <script src="{% static 'js/jquery-1.11.0.min.js' %}"
> type="text/javascript"> </script>
>         <script src="{% static 'js/jquery.jqGrid.min.js' %}"
> type="text/javascript"> </script>
>         <script src="{% static 'js/grid.locale-el.js' %}"
> type="text/javascript"> </script>
>         <script src="{% static 'js/category.js' %}" type="text/javascript">
> </script>
>     </head>
>     <body>
>
>         <table id="grid"></table>
>         <div id="pager"></div>
>
>     </body>
> </html>
>
> but i am afraid the problem lies in urls.py (i do not know what to do)
>
> http://127.0.0.1:8000/static/css/file_name  (in the firebug  network) but
> i
> can not open it directly via server.
>
> urls.py
>
> urlpatterns = [
>     url(r'^admin/', admin.site.urls),
>     url(r'^hello/','category.views.hello'),
> ]
>
>
> Any kind of help would be convenient to me?
>
> Kind Regards
> Kostas Asimakopoulos
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


You shouldn't need a special pattern in your urls for static files.

I think your issue lies with your STATIC_ROOT setting. It is the same as
your STATICFILES_DIRS setting.

Try changing the STATIC_ROOT setting to:

STATIC_ROOT = os.path.join(os.path.dirname(BASE_DIR), 'static')

This will put the static root outside of your project folder. This may
solve your problem, and will make it easier to host static files somewhere
else on your server or in a CDN if need be.


From wrh8609 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 12:29:24 2016
From: wrh8609 at gmail.com (wrh8609 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 09:29:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: help install numpy and scipy in window 7 and 3.5.0 shell
In-Reply-To: <mailman.28.1460732174.6324.python-list@python.org>
References: <da6a5052-1721-40e0-8f4b-2ddffafe62c7@googlegroups.com>
 <CAP1rxO7RPQoH2taeaYZ4crE0WrLswF4CwwnbMU5EvmzZ3kPPqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.28.1460732174.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7daec141-40c0-4a7c-953e-7e0628d74654@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 15, 2016 at 10:56:28 AM UTC-4, Bob Gailer wrote:
> On Apr 15, 2016 10:40 AM, <wrh8609 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have downloaded the numpy-1.11.01 and scipy-0.17.0 but after running
> setup files over IDLE in numpy and scipy, it still can not get through. Can
> someone give me a hand? or you can provide the installation instruction for
> both.
> 
> Can you be more specific? "Can not get through" is not very informative.
> What opeting system are you using? What version of python? What messages or
> symptoms do you get? The more you help us the easier it is for us to help
> you. We do welcome your questions thank you

Hi Bob,

First I would like to have your input of installation instruction for numpy and scipy. I don't know what I did to run the setup.py is correct. The operating system is on window 7 and the version of python is 3.5.0. By the way, after I ran the setup.py of numpy over IDLE, it shows "Running from numpy source directory." and I can import numpy. But after I ran setup.py of scipy over IDLE, it shows 
=============== RESTART: C:\PythonFiles\scipy-0.17.0\setup.py ===============
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\PythonFiles\scipy-0.17.0\setup.py", line 265, in <module>
    setup_package()
  File "C:\PythonFiles\scipy-0.17.0\setup.py", line 253, in setup_package
    from numpy.distutils.core import setup
ImportError: No module named 'numpy'

If you have further suggestion, please let me know.

Thanks,
Wen-Ruey



From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 15 12:47:05 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 02:47:05 +1000
Subject: How to parameterize unittests
References: <570FA466.20003@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.106.1460642951.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570fb1a3$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <57108FAC.3020105@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmreV+Ed722t7mUUC62L2u8gT-CE5K9ASGon1PHMYFdmTQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5710A442.8000906@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.5.1460708428.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <5710affd$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <5710D3DA.6030005@rece.vub.ac.be> <5710E30B.6050304@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.22.1460724628.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57111b0b$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 10:48 pm, Antoon Pardon wrote:

> Starting from this:
> 
>     class Test_AVLTree(unittest.TestCase):
>  
>         def test_empty_tree_is_false(self):
>             instance = avltree()
>             self.assertFalse(instance)
> 
> Changing it into this:
> 
>     def MakeAVLTest(avltree):
>         class Test_AVLTree(unittest.TestCase):
> 
>             def test_empty_tree_is_false(self):
>                 instance = avltree()
>                 self.assertFalse(instance)
> 
>         return Test_AVLTree
> 
>     AVLTest = MakeAVLTest(avltree)
>     MyTreeTest = MakeAVLTest(mytree)
> 
> Seems to work

Right up to the moment that you realise that you need different tests for a
subclass, and now you can't using subclassing because they aren't
subclasses, they're completely independent classes that happen to duplicate
the same methods.

If the tests for your AVL tree and it's subclasses are *identical*, then
what's the point of the subclasses?




-- 
Steven



From ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk  Fri Apr 15 12:54:44 2016
From: ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk (Ben Bacarisse)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 17:54:44 +0100
Subject: sum accuracy
References: <570E78F9.8050409@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <1460567110.3933817.577783969.165F6097@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <5710B365.5040903@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <CAHVvXxSub2Z2j6eedm3zQr7v2aYWMhmGYzXTtx+SPrcAFgXFtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.11.1460712984.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87d1prw5b7.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
 <CAHVvXxTe-2ABYmGkAz9nb3xsr-a3t1kDHA=VmqBQ-pYpp1XziA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.24.1460728181.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87vb3iu817.fsf@bsb.me.uk>

Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> writes:

> On 15 April 2016 at 11:10, Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk> wrote:
>> Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 15 April 2016 at 10:24, Robin Becker <robin at reportlab.com> wrote:
>> <snip>
>>>> yes indeed summation is hard :(
>>>
>>> Not with Fraction it isn't:
>>>
>>> from fractions import Fraction
>>>
>>> def exact_sum(nums):
>>>     return sum(map(Fraction, nums))
>>>
>>> This will give you the exact result with precisely zero rounding
>>> error. You can convert it to float at the end.
>>
>> Just a word of warning for people new to numerical work: there's no
>> rounding error, but unless you start with Fraction objects you still
>> have input or conversion errors.
>
> There are no conversion errors in the Fraction constructor. This will
> exactly sum any combination of int/float/Fraction/Decimal without
> errors. (It will raise ValueError on nan/inf but I consider that a
> good thing).

Yes, that's a good point.  Starting with Fraction objects is just one
way to know exactly what you are exactly summing.

>> The uninitiated might expect
>>
>>   exact_sum([0.3, 0.7])
>>
>> to be 1.
>
> That's true but I wanted to correct the impression (from above) that
> *converting* to Fraction is a source of rounding error. It is your
> responsibility to give exact_sum the exact numbers that you want to
> add.

The bad phrase "input or conversion errors" was intended to refer to the
conversion Python does when you write 0.3 in the source or when you read
your data and convert it to floating-point.  It can certainly be read as
if I was talking about the constructor but, as you say, *that*
conversion is exact.

<snip>
-- 
Ben.


From m at funkyhat.org  Fri Apr 15 13:04:14 2016
From: m at funkyhat.org (Matt Wheeler)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 18:04:14 +0100
Subject: sum accuracy
In-Reply-To: <87d1prw5b7.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
References: <570E78F9.8050409@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <1460567110.3933817.577783969.165F6097@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <5710B365.5040903@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <CAHVvXxSub2Z2j6eedm3zQr7v2aYWMhmGYzXTtx+SPrcAFgXFtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.11.1460712984.6324.python-list@python.org> <87d1prw5b7.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
Message-ID: <CAG93HwGWHV9+SHmTd=jvXhhUaVfU759Rfet1U=Gqc54nGxb4dg@mail.gmail.com>

So we could build on this

On 15 April 2016 at 11:10, Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk> wrote:
>> from fractions import Fraction
>>
>> def exact_sum(nums):
>>     return sum(map(Fraction, nums))
>>
>> This will give you the exact result with precisely zero rounding
>> error. You can convert it to float at the end.
>
> Just a word of warning for people new to numerical work: there's no
> rounding error, but unless you start with Fraction objects you still
> have input or conversion errors.  The uninitiated might expect
>
>   exact_sum([0.3, 0.7])
>
> to be 1.

and make

def not_exact_but_probably_the_sum_you_wanted(nums):
    return sum(map(lambda x:Fraction(x).limit_denominator(), nums))


-- 
Matt Wheeler
http://funkyh.at


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 13:51:17 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 03:51:17 +1000
Subject: How to parameterize unittests
In-Reply-To: <57111b0b$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <570FA466.20003@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.106.1460642951.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570fb1a3$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <57108FAC.3020105@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmreV+Ed722t7mUUC62L2u8gT-CE5K9ASGon1PHMYFdmTQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5710A442.8000906@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.5.1460708428.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <5710affd$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <5710D3DA.6030005@rece.vub.ac.be> <5710E30B.6050304@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.22.1460724628.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <57111b0b$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmonQX0s+cbFsDKr=osHQNp8GKJaCrVfuGfTjzXYsjJqZQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 2:47 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> If the tests for your AVL tree and it's subclasses are *identical*, then
> what's the point of the subclasses?

If the tree classes all have the same API but different performance
trade-offs, it would make sense to use all the same tests to make sure
their behaviours are correct. But if your module's purpose is to offer
a variety of tree classes, its tests should be designed around
parameterization. Refactoring the code would be the correct behaviour.

ChrisA


From sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 13:52:20 2016
From: sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com (sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 10:52:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Looking for feedback on weighted voting algorithm
In-Reply-To: <mailman.118.1460666904.15650.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAO1D73EFoLoJm=4shNfgEsJinGHrM82J_BsTRMnm7XX4tW1h+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604140859230.18407@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>
 <CAO1D73GG2Rfp6VK1Tr6fL6Ok4sJo55anYXsXK=PVWRfkNKVBrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkN8RCzZW2uWuCS+A7hXunP9Fc-TUAZRM3dhdfMhV9YDnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.118.1460666904.15650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3567e3a1-6a55-4471-ad70-dc23e9ad05f4@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 1:48:40 PM UTC-7, Michael Selik wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016, 7:37 PM justin walters <walters.justin01 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > On Apr 14, 2016 9:41 AM, "Martin A. Brown" <martin at linux-ip.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Greetings Justin,
> > >
> > > >    score = sum_of_votes/num_of_votes
> > >
> > > >votes = [(72, 4), (96, 3), (48, 2), (53, 1), (26, 4), (31, 3), (68, 2),
> > (91, 1)]
> > >
> > > >Specifically, I'm wondering if this is a good algorithm for
> > > >weighted voting. Essentially a vote is weighted by the number of
> > > >votes it counts as. I realize that this is an extremely simple
> > > >algorithm, but I was wondering if anyone had suggestions on how to
> > > >improve it.
> > >
> > > I snipped most of your code.  I don't see anything wrong with your
> > > overall approach.  I will make one suggestion: watch out for
> > > DivisionByZero.
> > >
> > >     try:
> > >         score = sum_of_votes / num_of_votes
> > >     except ZeroDivisionError:
> > >         score = float('nan')
> > >
> > > In your example data, all of the weights were integers, which means
> > > that a simple mean function would work, as well, if you expanded the
> > > votes to an alternate representation:
> > >
> > >   votes = [72, 72, 72, 72, 96, 96, 96, 48, 48, 53, 26, 26, 26, 26,
> > >            31, 31, 31, 68, 68, 91]
> > >
> > > But, don't bother!
> > >
> > > Your function can handle votes that have a float weight:
> > >
> > >   >>> weight([(4, 1.3), (1, 1),])
> > >   2.695652173913044
> > >
> > > Have fun!
> > >
> > > -Martin
> > >
> > > --
> > > Martin A. Brown
> > > http://linux-ip.net/
> >
> > Thanks Martin!
> >
> > I'll add the check for division by zero. Didn't think about that. I think
> > I'm going to sanitize input anyways, but always better to be safe than
> > sorry.
> >
> 
> I suggest not worrying about sanitizing inputs. If someone provides bad
> data, Python will do the right thing: stop the program and print an
> explanation of what went wrong, often a more helpful message than one you'd
> write. Use error handling mostly for when you want to do something *other*
> than stop the program.
> 
> I'm not sure I'd use NaN instead of raise division by zero error. NaNs can
> be troublesome for downstream code that might not notice until it gets
> confusing. A div-by-zero error is clear and easier to track down because of
> the traceback.
> 
> What do you think of using list comprehensions?
> 
>     weighted_sum = sum(rating * weight for rating, weight in votes)
>     total_weights = sum(weight for rating, weight in votes)
>     score = weighted_sum / total_weights
> 
> It's two loops as I wrote it, which is instinctively slower, but it might
> actually execute faster because of the built-in sum vs a regular for loop.
> Not sure.
> 
> >

I disagree with your notion of not sanitizing inputs.

If I'm the only person that will be using my program, then sure, I won't sanitize inputs.  It was my mistake and I should read the traceback and know what I did wrong.

But if ANY third party is going to be using it, especially as part of a web service of some kind, I'd much rather sanitize the inputs and tell the user they did something bad than to have the script crash and give a 500 Internal Server Error to the user.

Even worse, I definitely wouldn't want to give any hints of the source code organization by letting the user see the traceback.  I'll log it privately so I can view it myself, of course.


From sergio.am.spina at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 13:56:44 2016
From: sergio.am.spina at gmail.com (Sergio Spina)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 10:56:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python3 - No module named 'html5lib'
In-Reply-To: <i7OdnbnsxPOXIJLKnZ2dnUU7-emdnZ2d@giganews.com>
References: <bcc33204-d80c-4720-9673-adca1f413559@googlegroups.com>
 <i7OdnbnsxPOXIJLKnZ2dnUU7-emdnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <223d0e55-08cc-4502-8c54-19532c9e72ee@googlegroups.com>

Il giorno gioved? 14 aprile 2016 17:54:00 UTC+2, Wildman ha scritto:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:31:59 -0700, Sergio Spina wrote:
> 
> > I'm running a python3 program that requires html5lib but I receive the error No module named 'html5lib'.
> > 
> > Here are two session of terminal:
> > 
> >     sam at pc ~ $ python
> >     Python 2.7.9 (default, Mar  1 2015, 12:57:24) 
> >     [GCC 4.9.2] on linux2
> >     >>> import html5lib
> >     >>> html5lib.__file__
> >     '/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/html5lib/__init__.pyc'
> >     >>> quit()
> > 
> >     sam at pc ~ $ python3
> >     Python 3.4.2 (default, Oct  8 2014, 10:45:20) 
> >     [GCC 4.9.1] on linux
> >     >>> import html5lib
> >     Traceback (most recent call last):
> >       File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> >     ImportError: No module named 'html5lib'
> > 
> > Where can be the problem?
> 
> apt-get install python3-html5lib
> 
> -- 
> <Wildman> GNU/Linux user #557453
> The cow died so I don't need your bull!

It works, many thanks.


From pierre.quentel at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 15:03:46 2016
From: pierre.quentel at gmail.com (Pierre Quentel)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 12:03:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to setup for localhost:8000
In-Reply-To: <2e597a56-00ab-4370-b337-667f34eac56a@googlegroups.com>
References: <5ea1e31b-09ba-4b6a-be8b-58886c5c5f81@googlegroups.com>
 <CA+y5TLbED=JjcPG4-qfn=7tH=Y=6PQa+MMpvh_8uNT2srh7dBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.112.1460658199.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <2e597a56-00ab-4370-b337-667f34eac56a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5cbb46c-8d7d-482f-a608-57ba48e2df40@googlegroups.com>

Le jeudi 14 avril 2016 22:50:33 UTC+2, wrh... at gmail.com a ?crit?:
> On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 2:23:36 PM UTC-4, Andrew Farrell wrote:
> > What happens when you type
> > 
> > http://localhost:8000
> > 
> > Into the address bar of your browser as this is running?
> > 
> > On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 12:46 PM, <wrh8609 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I am working on window 7 and Python 3.5 to setup a localhost:8000 but it
> > > did not get through as shown below:
> > > > python -m http.server
> > > Serving HTTP on 0.0.0.0 port 8000 ...
> > >
> > > But it did not show the results.
> > >
> > > Can someone help me how to setup the localhost?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Wen-Ruey
> > >
> > > --
> > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > >
> 
> hi Andrew,
> 
> Yes. after I type http:\\localhost:8000, the browser did not show anything except a empty page without any errors.
> 
> Thanks,
> Wen-Ruey

Hi,

When you type http://localhost:8000, do you see something in the console after the line  "Serving HTTP on 0.0.0.0 port 8000 ..." ?

If the server actually serves requests on port 8000 you should see a log message such as

127.0.0.1 - - [15/Apr/2016 20:57:32] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 -


From martin.schoon at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 16:41:35 2016
From: martin.schoon at gmail.com (Martin =?UTF-8?Q?Sch=C3=B6=C3=B6n?=)
Date: 15 Apr 2016 20:41:35 GMT
Subject: help install numpy and scipy in window 7 and 3.5.0 shell
References: <da6a5052-1721-40e0-8f4b-2ddffafe62c7@googlegroups.com>
 <CAP1rxO7RPQoH2taeaYZ4crE0WrLswF4CwwnbMU5EvmzZ3kPPqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.28.1460732174.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <7daec141-40c0-4a7c-953e-7e0628d74654@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dnd1vvFaih2U1@mid.individual.net>

Den 2016-04-15 skrev wrh8609 at gmail.com <wrh8609 at gmail.com>:
>
On Windows (at work) I use Python(x,y) http://python-xy.github.io/
It has yet to fail me.

/Martin


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 17:23:23 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 22:23:23 +0100
Subject: help install numpy and scipy in window 7 and 3.5.0 shell
In-Reply-To: <7daec141-40c0-4a7c-953e-7e0628d74654@googlegroups.com>
References: <da6a5052-1721-40e0-8f4b-2ddffafe62c7@googlegroups.com>
 <CAP1rxO7RPQoH2taeaYZ4crE0WrLswF4CwwnbMU5EvmzZ3kPPqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.28.1460732174.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <7daec141-40c0-4a7c-953e-7e0628d74654@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxRFQoEzMYdBXHLj8ibVH0JZPZdyJTmmeAVEZ+6MFyuaHw@mail.gmail.com>

On 15 April 2016 at 17:29,  <wrh8609 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 15, 2016 10:40 AM, <wrh8609 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I have downloaded the numpy-1.11.01 and scipy-0.17.0 but after running
>> setup files over IDLE in numpy and scipy, it still can not get through. Can
>> someone give me a hand? or you can provide the installation instruction for
>>
>
> First I would like to have your input of installation instruction for numpy and scipy. I don't know what I did to run the setup.py is correct. The operating system is on window 7 and the version of python is 3.5.0. By the way, after I ran the setup.py of numpy over IDLE, it shows "Running from numpy source directory."

I think what you mean is that you ran the setup.py to build e.g
"python setup.py biuld" and then you ran Python and did "import numpy"
and then numpy complained about you importing from within the source
directory. Numpy complains about this because you should *install*
numpy, change to a different directory and then import it e.g.:

$ python setup.py install
$ cd /some/where/else
$ python
>>> import numpy

> and I can import numpy. But after I ran setup.py of scipy over IDLE, it shows
> =============== RESTART: C:\PythonFiles\scipy-0.17.0\setup.py ===============
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\PythonFiles\scipy-0.17.0\setup.py", line 265, in <module>
>     setup_package()
>   File "C:\PythonFiles\scipy-0.17.0\setup.py", line 253, in setup_package
>     from numpy.distutils.core import setup
> ImportError: No module named 'numpy'

You didn't install numpy so it's not importable when you're not in the
numpy source directory. In order to build scipy you have used cd to
change to a different directory and now "import numpy" (which is what
scipy's setup.py does) fails.

I'm not sure what toolchain you can actually use to build numpy and
scipy for Python 3.5 on Windows because:
1) In the past (Pre 3.5) MinGW gcc was used to be able to compile the
fortran parts of scipy.
2) python.org's Python 3.5 Windows build is updated to use MSVC2015
which uses the new UCRT.
3) MinGW gcc cannot make binaries compatible with the UCRT so...
4) MSVC2015 is needed for extension modules for Python 3.5 on Windows but...
5) MSVC2015 cannot compile Fortran so it can't compile scipy

There is work on a project called mingwpy which will hopefully add
ucrt support to MinGW-W64 but I'm not sure of its status.

All of the above is just background on the difficulties of building
numpy/scipy yourself for Python 3.5 on Windows however...

Numpy now has binary (pre-complied) wheels for Windows, OSX and Linux
on PyPI so you should be able to just install it with:

    $ pip install numpy

This is much easier than what you're currently attempting. I don't
know if the same works for scipy now or not.

Here on Linux I can install both numpy and scipy as precompiled wheels
from PyPI simply by running

    $ pip install numpy scipy

and it takes about 5 seconds.

Give it a try and let and us know.

--
Oscar


From a3a95797 at telus.net  Fri Apr 15 18:48:23 2016
From: a3a95797 at telus.net (a3a95797)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 16:48:23 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Python 2.7
In-Reply-To: <1852181004.1116878.1460760280543.JavaMail.zimbra@mailid.telus.net>
Message-ID: <2092809416.1121798.1460760503869.JavaMail.zimbra@mailid.telus.net>


Sirs(s)

I wish to have python 2.7 on a computer.  I have not been able to get a working copy to work on my machine.  I am prepared to follow instructions or to pay someone to install Python on my computer.  Either the Debian or the Windows operating system is satisfactory.  I am prepared to pay a company or person to reach my goal of programming with Python.



From michael.selik at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 20:35:02 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 00:35:02 +0000
Subject: Looking for feedback on weighted voting algorithm
In-Reply-To: <3567e3a1-6a55-4471-ad70-dc23e9ad05f4@googlegroups.com>
References: <CAO1D73EFoLoJm=4shNfgEsJinGHrM82J_BsTRMnm7XX4tW1h+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604140859230.18407@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>
 <CAO1D73GG2Rfp6VK1Tr6fL6Ok4sJo55anYXsXK=PVWRfkNKVBrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGgTfkN8RCzZW2uWuCS+A7hXunP9Fc-TUAZRM3dhdfMhV9YDnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.118.1460666904.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <3567e3a1-6a55-4471-ad70-dc23e9ad05f4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkNHuywiC=+aeetMJpuCYF5C_u09haKzD8MPS2u4kmP31w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016, 7:56 PM <sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 1:48:40 PM UTC-7, Michael Selik wrote:
> > I suggest not worrying about sanitizing inputs. If someone provides bad
> > data, Python will do the right thing: stop the program and print an
> > explanation of what went wrong, often a more helpful message than one
> you'd
> > write. Use error handling mostly for when you want to do something
> *other*
> > than stop the program.
> >
> > I'm not sure I'd use NaN instead of raise division by zero error. NaNs
> can
> > be troublesome for downstream code that might not notice until it gets
> > confusing. A div-by-zero error is clear and easier to track down because
> of
> > the traceback.
>
> I'd much rather sanitize the inputs and tell the user they did something
> bad than to have the script crash and give a 500 Internal Server Error to
> the user.
>

Right, my advice was only good if the user can read the original error and
traceback. And can restart the program, etc.

Even worse, I definitely wouldn't want to give any hints of the source code
> organization by letting the user see the traceback.
>

Depends on the kind of user you have.

>


From cs at zip.com.au  Fri Apr 15 23:48:33 2016
From: cs at zip.com.au (cs at zip.com.au)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 13:48:33 +1000
Subject: sys.exit(1) vs raise SystemExit vs raise
In-Reply-To: <CACT3xuUFeOXbjwiWhgZ90UMPi5xXQaj9HpxU3Aepz2Hr8Kw42Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACT3xuUFeOXbjwiWhgZ90UMPi5xXQaj9HpxU3Aepz2Hr8Kw42Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160416034833.GA24653@cskk.homeip.net>

On 12Apr2016 18:20, Ganesh Pal <ganesh1pal at gmail.com> wrote:
>I m on python 2.7 and Linux ,  I have a simple code  need suggestion if  I
> I could replace sys.exit(1) with raise  SystemExit .
>
>==Actual code==
>
>def main():
>    try:
>        create_logdir()
>        create_dataset()
>        unittest.main()
>    except Exception as e:
>        logging.exception(e)
>        sys.exit(EXIT_STATUS_ERROR)
>
>if __name__ == '__main__':
>    main()
>
>==Changed Code==
>
>
>def main():
>    try:
>        create_logdir()
>        create_dataset()
>        unittest.main()
>    except Exception as e:
>        logging.exception(e)
>        raise SystemExit
>
>if __name__ == '__main__':
>    main()

I am against both of these personally. My preferred pattern is like this:

  def main(argv):
    try:
      ...
    except Exception as e:
      logging.exception(e)
      return 1

  if __name__ == '__main__':
    sys.exit(main(sys.argv))

Notice that main() is back to being a normal function with normal returns.

Also, most of us would avoid the "except Exception" and just let a top level 
except bubble out: that way you get a stack backtrace for debugging. I agree it 
prevents logging the exception and makes for uglier console output, but I think 
it is a win. And if you _do_ want to log the exception there is always this:

  try:
    ...
  except Exception as e:
    logging.exception(e)
    raise

to recite the exception into the log and still let it bubble out normally.

The problem with the "except Exception" pattern is that it catches and _hides_ 
_every_ exception, not merely the narrow set of specific exceptions that you 
understand.

Finally, it is frowned upon to raise a bare Exception class. In  python 3 I 
believe it is actually forbidden, so it is nonportable anyway. But even In 
Python to it is best to supply an Exception instance, not the class:

  raise SystemExit(1)

>2. All the functions in try block have exception bubbled out using raise
>
>   Example for create_logdir() here is the function definition
>
>def create_logdir():
>
>    try:
>        os.makedirs(LOG_DIR)
>    except OSError as e:
>        sys.stderr.write("Failed to create log directory...Exiting !!!")
>        raise
>    print "log file: " + corrupt_log
>    return True
>
>def main():
>    try:
>        create_logdir()
>    except Exception as e:
>        logging.exception(e)
>        raise SystemExit
>
>(a) In case if create_logdir() fails we will get the below error ,is
>this fine or do I need to improve this code.
>
>Failed to create log directory...Exiting !!!ERROR:root:[Errno 17] File
>exists: '/var/log/dummy'
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "corrupt_test.py", line 245, in main
>    create_logdir()
>  File "corrupt_test.py", line 53, in create_logdir
>    os.makedirs(LOG_DIR)
>  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/os.py", line 157, in makedirs
>OSError: [Errno 17] File exists: '/var/log/dummy'

I prefer the bubble out approach, perhap with a log or warning messages as you 
have done, eg:

  logging.exception("create_logdir failed: makedirs(%r): %s" % (LOG_DIR, e))
  raise

(Also not that that log message records more context: context is very useful 
when debugging problems.)

For very small scripts sys.stderr.write is ok, but in general any of your 
functions that turned out to be generally useful might migrate into a library 
in order to be reused; consider that stderr is not always the place for 
messages; instead reading for the logging module with error() or wanr() or 
exception() as appropriate. There is more scope for configuring where the 
output goes that way without wiring it into your inner functions.

>3. Can I have just raise , instead of SystemExit or sys.exit(1) . This
>looks wrong to me
>
>  def main():
>
>    try:
>        create_logdir()
>    except Exception as e
>        logging.exception(e)
>        raise

This is what I would do, myself.

Think: has the exception been "handled", meaning has the situation been dealt 
with because it was expected? If not, let the exception bubble out so that the 
user knows that something _not_ understood by the program has occurred.

Finally, it is generally bad to SystemExit or sys.exit() from inside anything 
other than the outermost main() function. And I resist it even there; the main 
function, if written well, may often be called from somewhere else usefully, 
and that makes it effectively a library function (it has been reused). Such a 
function should not unilaterally abort the program. How rude! Instead, let the 
exception bubble out: perhaps the _caller_ of main() expects it and can handle 
it. By aborting and not "raise"ing, you have deprived the caller of the chance 
to do something appropriate, even though you yourself (i.e. "main") do not know 
enough context to handle the exception.

So I am for "raise" myself. And then only because you want to log the error. If 
you didn't want to log the exception you could avoid the try/except _entirely_ 
and have simpler code: let the caller worry about unhandled exceptions!

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>


From termim at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 23:59:44 2016
From: termim at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 20:59:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: good way to avoid recomputations?
In-Reply-To: <8725470c-9554-4281-9427-43bd37f42f87@googlegroups.com>
References: <8725470c-9554-4281-9427-43bd37f42f87@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a1984638-2788-400c-8819-2d119d34d6da@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 4:54:50 PM UTC-4, Maurice wrote:
> Hi. I working on a project where I have 5 scripts loading the same file at the very beginning so I would like to know the best way I can get this file without having to compute it 5 times.
> 
> I also perform, in all the scripts, a list comprehension using this file that takes 30s to run. Would be cool to always have access to it as well.
> 
> Cheers

You can load the file and then fork ...


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Apr 16 00:13:43 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 14:13:43 +1000
Subject: sys.exit(1) vs raise SystemExit vs raise
References: <CACT3xuUFeOXbjwiWhgZ90UMPi5xXQaj9HpxU3Aepz2Hr8Kw42Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160416034833.GA24653@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <858u0ew5qg.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

cs at zip.com.au writes:

> My preferred pattern is like this:
>
>  def main(argv):
>    try:
>      ...
>    except Exception as e:
>      logging.exception(e)
>      return 1
>
>  if __name__ == '__main__':
>    sys.exit(main(sys.argv))
>
> Notice that main() is back to being a normal function with normal
> returns.

That's good. A couple of points:

* If you allow ?main? to be called with no arguments, and default to the
  actual command-line, then ?main? becomes a function you can use as a
  Setuptools entry point.

* If the ?main? function encounters no exception, it will return ?None?
  instead of the correct exit status of 0.

* You can use named constants from ?os? for the purpose of specifying
  exit status numbers.

  <URL:https://docs.python.org/3/library/os.html#os._exit>

So::

    def main(argv=None):
        """ Mainline procedure for this program.

            :param argv: Sequence of command-line arguments.
                Default: `sys.argv`.
            :return: Exit status (integer) for this program.

            """
        exit_status = os.EX_OK

        if argv is None:
            argv = sys.argv

        try:
            ...
        except Exception as exc:
            logging.exception(exc)
            exit_status = os.EX_SOFTWARE

        return exit_status

    if __name__ == '__main__':
        sys.exit(main(sys.argv))

-- 
 \      ?He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his |
  `\                             enemy from oppression.? ?Thomas Paine |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From steve at pearwood.info  Sat Apr 16 00:38:09 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 14:38:09 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
Message-ID: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

Until now, PEP 8 has recommended that multi-line expressions should break
*after* infix operators:


result = (this_value *
          some_value +
          another_value -
          excess_value or
          default_value
          )


After a mercifully short discussion on the Python-Ideas mailing list, Guido
has been persuaded to change PEP 8 to recommend that the break should occur
*before* the infix operator:


result = (this_value 
          * some_value
          + another_value
          - excess_value
          or default_value
          )


This makes me happy :-)


Guido's announcement, including links to relevant discussion:

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2016-April/144205.html



-- 
Steven



From me at ixokai.io  Sat Apr 16 01:34:32 2016
From: me at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 22:34:32 -0700
Subject: sys.exit(1) vs raise SystemExit vs raise
In-Reply-To: <858u0ew5qg.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <CACT3xuUFeOXbjwiWhgZ90UMPi5xXQaj9HpxU3Aepz2Hr8Kw42Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160416034833.GA24653@cskk.homeip.net>
 <858u0ew5qg.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <1460784872.1843058.580428001.63445E11@webmail.messagingengine.com>


> * You can use named constants from ?os? for the purpose of specifying
>   exit status numbers.

Only on *nix. 

Even then it varies from platform to platform which constants you can
use. I'd prefer to document the return status and use numbers/my own
constants directly, that way supporting any platform (even windows,
where its %ERRORLEVEL%

--S


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 02:05:29 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 16:05:29 +1000
Subject: Python 2.7
In-Reply-To: <2092809416.1121798.1460760503869.JavaMail.zimbra@mailid.telus.net>
References: <1852181004.1116878.1460760280543.JavaMail.zimbra@mailid.telus.net>
 <2092809416.1121798.1460760503869.JavaMail.zimbra@mailid.telus.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpak-tSgEnDpanY312BQN0wkne3Tt13mWVHPbPuTfe9=Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 8:48 AM, a3a95797 <a3a95797 at telus.net> wrote:
>
> Sirs(s)
>
> I wish to have python 2.7 on a computer.  I have not been able to get a working copy to work on my machine.  I am prepared to follow instructions or to pay someone to install Python on my computer.  Either the Debian or the Windows operating system is satisfactory.  I am prepared to pay a company or person to reach my goal of programming with Python.
>

Debian will usually come with Python already installed. Try opening a
terminal and typing "python" - it'll probably be there.

ChrisA


From me at ixokai.io  Sat Apr 16 02:21:12 2016
From: me at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 23:21:12 -0700
Subject: Python 2.7
In-Reply-To: <2092809416.1121798.1460760503869.JavaMail.zimbra@mailid.telus.net>
References: <2092809416.1121798.1460760503869.JavaMail.zimbra@mailid.telus.net>
Message-ID: <1460787672.1851497.580441513.277C5981@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016, at 03:48 PM, a3a95797 wrote:
> 
> Sirs(s)
> 
> I wish to have python 2.7 on a computer.  I have not been able to get a
> working copy to work on my machine.  I am prepared to follow instructions
> or to pay someone to install Python on my computer.  Either the Debian or
> the Windows operating system is satisfactory.  I am prepared to pay a
> company or person to reach my goal of programming with Python.

Define "not been ablke to get a working copy on my machine".

For windows, just go to python.org and download it. For debian, it
should come pre-installed.

---
Stephen Hansen
  m e @ i x o k a i  . i o


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Apr 16 02:53:19 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 16:53:19 +1000
Subject: Python 2.7
References: <1852181004.1116878.1460760280543.JavaMail.zimbra@mailid.telus.net>
 <2092809416.1121798.1460760503869.JavaMail.zimbra@mailid.telus.net>
Message-ID: <854mb2vycg.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

a3a95797 <a3a95797 at telus.net> writes:

> I wish to have python 2.7 on a computer. I have not been able to get a
> working copy to work on my machine.

Welcome! Thank you for learning Python.

Please be aware that Python 2.7 is a dead end today. It will never get
any new features, and only bug fixes will ever be made. Even that will
stop in a few years.

If you do not have a highly compelling reason to use that old version,
you should not be writing any new code in Python 2.

Instead, get the latest Python 3 for your computer and learn Python that
way.

> I am prepared to follow instructions or to pay someone to install
> Python on my computer. Either the Debian or the Windows operating
> system is satisfactory.

The Debian package manager will install Python 3 for you, just install
the ?python3? package.

> I am prepared to pay a company or person to reach my goal of
> programming with Python.

Good hunting, and feel free to ask questions as you learn. You will
probably want to join the ?tutor? forum for collaborative tutoring
<URL:https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor>.

-- 
 \      ?Contentment is a pearl of great price, and whosoever procures |
  `\        it at the expense of ten thousand desires makes a wise and |
_o__)                                      happy purchase.? ?J. Balguy |
Ben Finney



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Apr 16 02:56:10 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 16:56:10 +1000
Subject: sys.exit(1) vs raise SystemExit vs raise
References: <CACT3xuUFeOXbjwiWhgZ90UMPi5xXQaj9HpxU3Aepz2Hr8Kw42Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160416034833.GA24653@cskk.homeip.net>
 <858u0ew5qg.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <1460784872.1843058.580428001.63445E11@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <85zisuujn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Stephen Hansen <me at ixokai.io> writes:

> > * You can use named constants from ?os? for the purpose of specifying
> >   exit status numbers.
>
> Only on *nix.

Hmm, I didn't see that. It seems strange that even the constant for ?no
error? exit status should be defined only for Unix :-/

-- 
 \         ?Geeks like to think that they can ignore politics. You can |
  `\        leave politics alone, but politics won't leave you alone.? |
_o__)                                 ?Richard M. Stallman, 2002-07-26 |
Ben Finney



From bob.martin at excite.com  Sat Apr 16 08:05:34 2016
From: bob.martin at excite.com (Bob Martin)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 08:05:34 BST
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>

in 758117 20160416 053809 Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
>Until now, PEP 8 has recommended that multi-line expressions should break
>*after* infix operators:
>
>
>result = (this_value *
>some_value +
>another_value -
>excess_value or
>default_value
>)
>
>
>After a mercifully short discussion on the Python-Ideas mailing list, Guido
>has been persuaded to change PEP 8 to recommend that the break should occur
>*before* the infix operator:
>
>
>result = (this_value
>* some_value
>+ another_value
>- excess_value
>or default_value
>)
>
>
>This makes me happy :-)

That's how I've always done it.

>
>
>Guido's announcement, including links to relevant discussion:
>
>https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2016-April/144205.html


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 03:08:43 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 17:08:43 +1000
Subject: sys.exit(1) vs raise SystemExit vs raise
In-Reply-To: <85zisuujn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <CACT3xuUFeOXbjwiWhgZ90UMPi5xXQaj9HpxU3Aepz2Hr8Kw42Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160416034833.GA24653@cskk.homeip.net>
 <858u0ew5qg.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <1460784872.1843058.580428001.63445E11@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85zisuujn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmobZgyEAiqLqTr5avfxWsX6S4EFyOYRUx6f+QjzVT3XGQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 4:56 PM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Stephen Hansen <me at ixokai.io> writes:
>
>> > * You can use named constants from ?os? for the purpose of specifying
>> >   exit status numbers.
>>
>> Only on *nix.
>
> Hmm, I didn't see that. It seems strange that even the constant for ?no
> error? exit status should be defined only for Unix :-/

Maybe it's an error to use anything non-Unix??

ChrisA


From srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 03:25:39 2016
From: srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com (durgadevi1)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 00:25:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to print a part of a string?
In-Reply-To: <edfe7d06-e8b1-4cef-92c3-2d1a217ebdac@googlegroups.com>
References: <edfe7d06-e8b1-4cef-92c3-2d1a217ebdac@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e495af3e-ec0c-44ac-985c-9ca00353d608@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 15, 2016 at 8:13:17 PM UTC+8, durgadevi1 wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I have another homework problem.
> 
> I have a textfile. It contains lines of string.
> 
> I am required to only print out a certain part of the string.
> 
> For example the textfile contain:
> 
> ABC XXXXX NNNNN
> BCD QQQQQ EEEEE
> ABC WWWWW AAAAA
> 
> 
> I need to print all the parts that come after only ABC.
> 
> That means I need to print only XXXXX from the first line and WWWWW from the second line. 
> 
> I'm not sure of what code to use to achieve that.

Yay! I'm able to complete my homework now. :) Thanks for your replies guys :)


From srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 03:35:37 2016
From: srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com (durgadevi1)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 00:35:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dynamic inputs
Message-ID: <901a5b60-25b3-4e1c-9178-755bf668a5c5@googlegroups.com>

Hi guys,

what does dynamic inputs mean and how is it implemented in python programming?


From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Apr 16 04:06:59 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 11:06:59 +0300
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Bob Martin <bob.martin at excite.com>:

> in 758117 20160416 053809 Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
>>Until now, PEP 8 has recommended that multi-line expressions should
>>break *after* infix operators:
>>
>>
>>result = (this_value *
>>some_value +
>>another_value -
>>excess_value or
>>default_value
>>)
>>
>>
>>After a mercifully short discussion on the Python-Ideas mailing list,
>>Guido has been persuaded to change PEP 8 to recommend that the break
>>should occur *before* the infix operator:
>>
>>
>>result = (this_value
>>* some_value
>>+ another_value
>>- excess_value
>>or default_value
>>)
>>
>>
>>This makes me happy :-)
>
> That's how I've always done it.

It doesn't really matter one way or another. The true WTF is that it's
been changed.


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 04:32:32 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 18:32:32 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 6:06 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> It doesn't really matter one way or another. The true WTF is that it's
> been changed.

Why? Was PEP 8 inscribed on stone tablets carried down from a mountain?

ChrisA


From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Apr 16 04:51:01 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 11:51:01 +0300
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 6:06 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> It doesn't really matter one way or another. The true WTF is that it's
>> been changed.
>
> Why? Was PEP 8 inscribed on stone tablets carried down from a mountain?

In a way, yes.

I don't follow PEP 8 to the tee; probably nobody does. However, I don't
see the point of turning truckloads of exemplary Python code into
truckloads of substandard Python code.


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 05:30:21 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 19:30:21 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpxiYh=yKosufJvEvm5sOqeSTbgBHWCY4jFq-gmDeTa=Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 6:51 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
>
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 6:06 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>>> It doesn't really matter one way or another. The true WTF is that it's
>>> been changed.
>>
>> Why? Was PEP 8 inscribed on stone tablets carried down from a mountain?
>
> In a way, yes.
>
> I don't follow PEP 8 to the tee; probably nobody does. However, I don't
> see the point of turning truckloads of exemplary Python code into
> truckloads of substandard Python code.

Let me quote to you from the most important section of PEP 8.

"""
A style guide is about consistency. Consistency with this style guide
is important. Consistency within a project is more important.
Consistency within one module or function is the most important.

However, know when to be inconsistent -- sometimes style guide
recommendations just aren't applicable. When in doubt, use your best
judgment. Look at other examples and decide what looks best. And don't
hesitate to ask!
"""
(from the section "A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds")

Maybe we need a blog post "Falsehoods Programmers Believe About PEP
8", along the lines of the ones about time and names. Remember, every
one of these is false.

* All Python code should follow PEP 8.
* If you use a tool named pep8, your code will be PEP 8 compliant.
* If your code is PEP 8 compliant, a tool named pep8 will accept it.
* The Python Standard Library is PEP 8 compliant.
* Okay, at least the new parts of the standard library are PEP 8 compliant.
* PEP 8 compliant code is inherently better than non-compliant code.
* PEP8-ing existing code will improve it.
* Once code is PEP 8 compliant, it can easily be kept that way through
subsequent edits.
* PEP 8 never changes.
* Well, it never materially changes.
* I mean, new advice, sure, but it'll never actually go back on a rule.

Contributions welcomed.

ChrisA


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 05:31:09 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 09:31:09 +0000
Subject: Dynamic inputs
In-Reply-To: <901a5b60-25b3-4e1c-9178-755bf668a5c5@googlegroups.com>
References: <901a5b60-25b3-4e1c-9178-755bf668a5c5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkNnEk2TCKBgjcLTL2jjkrsii2qNmezQiKBpPKZs++YWbQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016, 9:41 AM durgadevi1 <
srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com> wrote:

> what does dynamic inputs mean and how is it implemented in python
> programming?
>

In what context did you hear or read the phrase "dynamic inputs"?

>


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 05:34:29 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 09:34:29 +0000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkP7KodaXxDPtJwKix_dvEM7iP0td6qHTGjBPsLhxZVQNg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016, 10:56 AM Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:

> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
>
> > On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 6:06 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net>
> wrote:
> >> It doesn't really matter one way or another. The true WTF is that it's
> >> been changed.
> >
> > Why? Was PEP 8 inscribed on stone tablets carried down from a mountain?
>
> In a way, yes.
>
> I don't follow PEP 8 to the tee; probably nobody does. However, I don't
> see the point of turning truckloads of exemplary Python code into
> truckloads of substandard Python code.
>

A change to PEP 8 does not change the quality of any code. Many teams
follow their own, different styles.

>


From steve at pearwood.info  Sat Apr 16 08:03:19 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 22:03:19 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <57122a08$0$1584$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 06:51 pm, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
> 
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 6:06 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>>> It doesn't really matter one way or another. The true WTF is that it's
>>> been changed.
>>
>> Why? Was PEP 8 inscribed on stone tablets carried down from a mountain?
> 
> In a way, yes.
> 
> I don't follow PEP 8 to the tee; probably nobody does. However, I don't
> see the point of turning truckloads of exemplary Python code into
> truckloads of substandard Python code.


In Guido's own words:

The update is already serving its real purpose: showing that style is
debatable and cannot always easily be reduced to fixed rules.

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2016-April/144211.html


GvR is not a fan of the automatic and compulsory application of PEP 8
conventions without thought, so I don't think he would agree with you that
a change in the preferred style automatically and necessarily
converts "exemplary Python code" into "substandard Python code".




-- 
Steven



From me+python at ixokai.io  Sat Apr 16 08:32:02 2016
From: me+python at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 05:32:02 -0700
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016, at 01:51 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
> 
> > On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 6:06 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> >> It doesn't really matter one way or another. The true WTF is that it's
> >> been changed.
> >
> > Why? Was PEP 8 inscribed on stone tablets carried down from a mountain?
> 
> In a way, yes.
> 
> I don't follow PEP 8 to the tee; probably nobody does. However, I don't
> see the point of turning truckloads of exemplary Python code into
> truckloads of substandard Python code.

This attitude is part of the problem: not following PEP8 does not make
code "substandard". PEP8 was never meant to be an authoritative metric
of 'good'. Its a set of guidelines that are subject to change over time
(this isn't even KINDA the first change!) and represent the core devs
taste and particular needs, and it goes out of its way to say that it is
only a suggestion and other concerns (especially local consistency)
override its advice.

---
Stephen Hansen
  m e @ i x o k a i . i o


From larry.martell at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 10:53:33 2016
From: larry.martell at gmail.com (Larry Martell)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 10:53:33 -0400
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Stephen Hansen <me+python at ixokai.io> wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016, at 01:51 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
>>
>> > On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 6:06 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> >> It doesn't really matter one way or another. The true WTF is that it's
>> >> been changed.
>> >
>> > Why? Was PEP 8 inscribed on stone tablets carried down from a mountain?
>>
>> In a way, yes.
>>
>> I don't follow PEP 8 to the tee; probably nobody does. However, I don't
>> see the point of turning truckloads of exemplary Python code into
>> truckloads of substandard Python code.
>
> This attitude is part of the problem: not following PEP8 does not make
> code "substandard". PEP8 was never meant to be an authoritative metric
> of 'good'. Its a set of guidelines that are subject to change over time
> (this isn't even KINDA the first change!) and represent the core devs
> taste and particular needs, and it goes out of its way to say that it is
> only a suggestion and other concerns (especially local consistency)
> override its advice.

I have worked for many companies where you are required to get a clean
run of pep8 on your code before your pull request will even be
considered for approval. I don't agree with this at all, as I think it
makes the code very ugly, especially enforcing the max line length.

I have referred people to this, but it fell on blind eyes:

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/#a-foolish-consistency-is-the-hobgoblin-of-little-minds


From mal at europython.eu  Sat Apr 16 10:56:34 2016
From: mal at europython.eu (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 16:56:34 +0200
Subject: EuroPython 2016: Schedule online
Message-ID: <571252A2.2020201@europython.eu>

We are happy to announce the schedule for EuroPython 2016 in
Bilbao. The program WG has been working hard trying to fit all the
sessions in the last few weeks.

With over 180 sessions, over 150 speakers, one day for workshops, 5
days of talks, training, keynotes, lightning talks and open spaces,
followed by 2 days of sprints, EuroPython will be one of the most
exciting and vibrant Python events this year:


		   *** EuroPython 2016 Schedule ***

	   https://ep2016.europython.eu/p3/schedule/ep2016/


The schedule is available in table and list format. Please note that
we are still applying changes to the slots and will also add some more
interesting special sessions to it in the coming days.

Early in June we will have a short second Call for Proposals, limited
to hot topics and most recent developments in software and
technology. We will announce details soon.

Many thanks to everyone who submitted proposals. EuroPython wouldn?t
be possible without our speakers.

If you want to join the fun, be sure to get your tickets as soon as
possible, since ticket sales usually start picking up quite a bit
after we announce the schedule.

	    https://ep2016.europython.eu/en/registration/


With gravitational regards,
--
EuroPython 2016 Team
http://ep2016.europython.eu/
http://www.europython-society.org/


From steve at pearwood.info  Sat Apr 16 12:04:31 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 02:04:31 +1000
Subject: Does get-pip work under sudo?
Message-ID: <57126291$0$1615$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

I tried to install pip following the instructions here:

https://pip.pypa.io/en/stable/installing/

but whenever I tried to run the installer, I got an error. If I ran as a
regular user:

python2.7 get-pip.py

I'd get a permission denied error (as expected) trying to write to the
site-packages directory:

OSError: [Errno 13] Permission
denied: '/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/pip-8.1.1.dist-info'

This does not surprise me, and I'm not concerned by that.

But if I ran using sudo, I'd get a surprising error. I tried using both 2.7
and 3.3, and got similar errors each time:

sudo python2.7 get-pip.py

IOError: [Errno 21] Is a directory: '/tmp'


sudo python3.3 get-pip.py

IsADirectoryError: [Errno 21] Is a directory: '/tmp'


This surprises me. Is this a bug in pip?

Here are the full tracebacks:



# Python 2.7 traceback

Exception:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/tmp/tmpCYNTpT/pip.zip/pip/basecommand.py", line 209, in main
    status = self.run(options, args)
  File "/tmp/tmpCYNTpT/pip.zip/pip/commands/install.py", line 249, in run
    with self._build_session(options) as session:
  File "/tmp/tmpCYNTpT/pip.zip/pip/basecommand.py", line 72, in
_build_session
    insecure_hosts=options.trusted_hosts,
  File "/tmp/tmpCYNTpT/pip.zip/pip/download.py", line 321, in __init__
    self.headers["User-Agent"] = user_agent()
  File "/tmp/tmpCYNTpT/pip.zip/pip/download.py", line 97, in user_agent
    zip(["lib", "version"], platform.libc_ver()),
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/platform.py", line 163, in libc_ver
    f = open(executable,'rb')
IOError: [Errno 21] Is a directory: '/tmp'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "get-pip.py", line 19154, in <module>
    main()
  File "get-pip.py", line 194, in main
    bootstrap(tmpdir=tmpdir)
  File "get-pip.py", line 172, in bootstrap
    sys.exit(pip.main(["install", "--upgrade"] + args))
  File "/tmp/tmpCYNTpT/pip.zip/pip/__init__.py", line 213, in main
  File "/tmp/tmpCYNTpT/pip.zip/pip/basecommand.py", line 245, in main
  File "/tmp/tmpCYNTpT/pip.zip/pip/basecommand.py", line 72, in
_build_session
  File "/tmp/tmpCYNTpT/pip.zip/pip/download.py", line 321, in __init__
  File "/tmp/tmpCYNTpT/pip.zip/pip/download.py", line 97, in user_agent
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/platform.py", line 163, in libc_ver
    f = open(executable,'rb')
IOError: [Errno 21] Is a directory: '/tmp'



# Python 3.3 traceback

Exception:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/tmp/tmp75x40t/pip.zip/pip/basecommand.py", line 209, in main
    status = self.run(options, args)
  File "/tmp/tmp75x40t/pip.zip/pip/commands/install.py", line 249, in run
    with self._build_session(options) as session:
  File "/tmp/tmp75x40t/pip.zip/pip/basecommand.py", line 72, in
_build_session
    insecure_hosts=options.trusted_hosts,
  File "/tmp/tmp75x40t/pip.zip/pip/download.py", line 321, in __init__
    self.headers["User-Agent"] = user_agent()
  File "/tmp/tmp75x40t/pip.zip/pip/download.py", line 97, in user_agent
    zip(["lib", "version"], platform.libc_ver()),
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.3/platform.py", line 162, in libc_ver
    f = open(executable,'rb')
IsADirectoryError: [Errno 21] Is a directory: '/tmp'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "get-pip.py", line 19154, in <module>
    main()
  File "get-pip.py", line 194, in main
    bootstrap(tmpdir=tmpdir)
  File "get-pip.py", line 172, in bootstrap
    sys.exit(pip.main(["install", "--upgrade"] + args))
  File "/tmp/tmp75x40t/pip.zip/pip/__init__.py", line 213, in main
  File "/tmp/tmp75x40t/pip.zip/pip/basecommand.py", line 245, in main
  File "/tmp/tmp75x40t/pip.zip/pip/basecommand.py", line 72, in
_build_session
  File "/tmp/tmp75x40t/pip.zip/pip/download.py", line 321, in __init__
  File "/tmp/tmp75x40t/pip.zip/pip/download.py", line 97, in user_agent
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.3/platform.py", line 162, in libc_ver
    f = open(executable,'rb')
IsADirectoryError: [Errno 21] Is a directory: '/tmp'




-- 
Steven



From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Apr 16 12:51:58 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 19:51:58 +0300
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Larry Martell <larry.martell at gmail.com>:

> I have worked for many companies where you are required to get a clean
> run of pep8 on your code before your pull request will even be
> considered for approval. I don't agree with this at all, as I think it
> makes the code very ugly, especially enforcing the max line length.

Agh, I was with you until your last remark.

A max line length of 79 characters is among the *only* rigorous
principles I judge coding style on.

It comes with the maxim that one function must be visible at once on the
screen.


Marko


From larry.martell at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 12:58:54 2016
From: larry.martell at gmail.com (Larry Martell)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 12:58:54 -0400
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Larry Martell <larry.martell at gmail.com>:
>
>> I have worked for many companies where you are required to get a clean
>> run of pep8 on your code before your pull request will even be
>> considered for approval. I don't agree with this at all, as I think it
>> makes the code very ugly, especially enforcing the max line length.
>
> Agh, I was with you until your last remark.
>
> A max line length of 79 characters is among the *only* rigorous
> principles I judge coding style on.
>
> It comes with the maxim that one function must be visible at once on the
> screen.

if we still had 1970's 80 character TTYs that would matter but on my
29" 1920x1080 screen it doesn't.


From mdrosis at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 16 13:12:48 2016
From: mdrosis at yahoo.com (Mel Drosis)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 13:12:48 -0400
Subject: Fraud
Message-ID: <444136AD-6A91-4BCE-B80F-6D1B5A8F4B65@yahoo.com>


My phone my accounts my home network have all been affected because of someone using coding from Python and Linux and GitHub and json. I don't even know what this stuff is but how do I get rid of it all. It's ruined my life. 
Sent from my iPhone


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Apr 16 13:19:08 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 13:19:08 -0400
Subject: Dynamic inputs
In-Reply-To: <901a5b60-25b3-4e1c-9178-755bf668a5c5@googlegroups.com>
References: <901a5b60-25b3-4e1c-9178-755bf668a5c5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nets7g$lbg$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/16/2016 3:35 AM, durgadevi1 wrote:

> what does dynamic inputs mean and how is it implemented in python programming?

'dynamic input' is new to me.  I would take it to mean input that is not 
available until the program is running.  Inputs from people and sensors 
would qualify.  But maybe whoever you read it from meant 'strong, 
energizing' as opposed to 'weak, inervating'.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Apr 16 13:25:37 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 13:25:37 -0400
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/16/2016 12:58 PM, Larry Martell wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> Larry Martell <larry.martell at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> I have worked for many companies where you are required to get a clean
>>> run of pep8 on your code before your pull request will even be
>>> considered for approval. I don't agree with this at all, as I think it
>>> makes the code very ugly, especially enforcing the max line length.
>>
>> Agh, I was with you until your last remark.
>>
>> A max line length of 79 characters is among the *only* rigorous
>> principles I judge coding style on.
>>
>> It comes with the maxim that one function must be visible at once on the
>> screen.
>
> if we still had 1970's 80 character TTYs that would matter but on my
> 29" 1920x1080 screen it doesn't.

It depends on whether one prefers to use the extra width to have long 
lines or side-by-side windows.  I prefer the latter.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From bc at freeuk.com  Sat Apr 16 14:18:17 2016
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 19:18:17 +0100
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <mailman.54.1460825978.6324.python-list@python.org>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.54.1460825978.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <netvf2$oin$1@dont-email.me>

On 16/04/2016 17:58, Larry Martell wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> Larry Martell <larry.martell at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> I have worked for many companies where you are required to get a clean
>>> run of pep8 on your code before your pull request will even be
>>> considered for approval. I don't agree with this at all, as I think it
>>> makes the code very ugly, especially enforcing the max line length.
>>
>> Agh, I was with you until your last remark.
>>
>> A max line length of 79 characters is among the *only* rigorous
>> principles I judge coding style on.
>>
>> It comes with the maxim that one function must be visible at once on the
>> screen.
>
> if we still had 1970's 80 character TTYs that would matter but on my
> 29" 1920x1080 screen it doesn't.

There are reasons why 'broadsheet' newspapers don't have a single wide 
column spanning the entire width of the page, but are divided into 
multiple columns.

(But I think 80 columns is a bit limited. Maybe 100 or 132.)

-- 
Bartc


From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Apr 16 14:33:33 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 21:33:33 +0300
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.56.1460827581.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87wpnx5rpe.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu>:

> On 4/16/2016 12:58 PM, Larry Martell wrote:
>> if we still had 1970's 80 character TTYs that would matter but on my
>> 29" 1920x1080 screen it doesn't.
>
> It depends on whether one prefers to use the extra width to have long
> lines or side-by-side windows.  I prefer the latter.

Precisely. I have better uses for my screen than seeing a mostly white,
ragged right margin.


Marko


From larry.martell at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 14:53:34 2016
From: larry.martell at gmail.com (Larry Martell)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 14:53:34 -0400
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <netvf2$oin$1@dont-email.me>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.54.1460825978.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <netvf2$oin$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CACwCsY6-EiXgi9tFyY_uta2EA=tERs3wuV6ZpxL=rVJxeuzLew@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 2:18 PM, BartC <bc at freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 16/04/2016 17:58, Larry Martell wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Larry Martell <larry.martell at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> I have worked for many companies where you are required to get a clean
>>>> run of pep8 on your code before your pull request will even be
>>>> considered for approval. I don't agree with this at all, as I think it
>>>> makes the code very ugly, especially enforcing the max line length.
>>>
>>>
>>> Agh, I was with you until your last remark.
>>>
>>> A max line length of 79 characters is among the *only* rigorous
>>> principles I judge coding style on.
>>>
>>> It comes with the maxim that one function must be visible at once on the
>>> screen.
>>
>>
>> if we still had 1970's 80 character TTYs that would matter but on my
>> 29" 1920x1080 screen it doesn't.
>
>
> There are reasons why 'broadsheet' newspapers don't have a single wide
> column spanning the entire width of the page, but are divided into multiple
> columns.

Nor do they have a \ at the end of each line with the following line indented.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Sat Apr 16 15:07:09 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 12:07:09 -0700
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <57128D5D.8050401@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/16/2016 10:25 AM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 4/16/2016 12:58 PM, Larry Martell wrote:
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

>>> Larry Martell wrote:

>>>> I have worked for many companies where you are required to get a clean
>>>> run of pep8 on your code before your pull request will even be
>>>> considered for approval. I don't agree with this at all, as I think it
>>>> makes the code very ugly, especially enforcing the max line length.
>>>
>>> Agh, I was with you until your last remark.
>>>
>>> A max line length of 79 characters is among the *only* rigorous
>>> principles I judge coding style on.
>>>
>>> It comes with the maxim that one function must be visible at once on the
>>> screen.
>>
>> if we still had 1970's 80 character TTYs that would matter but on my
>> 29" 1920x1080 screen it doesn't.
>
> It depends on whether one prefers to use the extra width to have long
> lines or side-by-side windows.  I prefer the latter.

Python code windows go in my portrait mode 27" screens (120 chars), 
while xml windows go in landscape mode (220 chars).

Yes, there are many reasons why I don't like xml. :(

--
~Ethan~



From jdsukdeo at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 15:16:05 2016
From: jdsukdeo at gmail.com (Jurell)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 21:16:05 +0200
Subject: Installation problem
Message-ID: <000001d19814$707c3090$517491b0$@com>

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I installed the Python program version 3.5.1 32 bit and the IDE I am going
to use is Wing IDE 101. The problem when I tried installing the python
program was as follows: "The program can`t start because
api-ms-win-crt-runtime-l1-1-0.dll is missing from your computer. Try
reinstalling the program to fix this problem". What I did was uninstall
Python and reinstall it installed ,I proceed on to install the IDE then this
message appeared again. 

 

N.B: My computer has Windows 7 64bit operating system 

 

I hope that helps .Please help your time and effort will be greatly
appreciated J .Just in case you can`t reach me you can send a message to
TSSukdeo at gmail.com . Thank you for reading my message ,I hope we can resolve
this issue together J.

 

Yours sincerely

Tiara

 



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


From wrightalexw at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 15:21:59 2016
From: wrightalexw at gmail.com (alex wright)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 15:21:59 -0400
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <netvf2$oin$1@dont-email.me>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.54.1460825978.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <netvf2$oin$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAJpBq5O4wfaid-p7NJY+T-Yz1i-gRj5G-wfNN+W0R16_uKUzKQ@mail.gmail.com>

We employ a pretty hard limit of 100.  This way I can reliably have 1
module split vertically with a test or configuration file open or 3
separate modules, etc.  I find 80 to be a bit strict, although in the past
I've been in unfortunate environments where it was helpful.  The rest of
PEP8 is largely adhered to wherever possible and it's been wonderful.  When
I first came to the project it had no real standard and was mostly
formatted at the whims of the one dev working on it.  It was a mess.  The
team has grown significantly internationally and a codified standard not
rooted in any of our habits is great.

(I've never replied to this list so I hope I don't goof up.)

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 2:18 PM, BartC <bc at freeuk.com> wrote:

> On 16/04/2016 17:58, Larry Martell wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Larry Martell <larry.martell at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> I have worked for many companies where you are required to get a clean
>>>> run of pep8 on your code before your pull request will even be
>>>> considered for approval. I don't agree with this at all, as I think it
>>>> makes the code very ugly, especially enforcing the max line length.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Agh, I was with you until your last remark.
>>>
>>> A max line length of 79 characters is among the *only* rigorous
>>> principles I judge coding style on.
>>>
>>> It comes with the maxim that one function must be visible at once on the
>>> screen.
>>>
>>
>> if we still had 1970's 80 character TTYs that would matter but on my
>> 29" 1920x1080 screen it doesn't.
>>
>
> There are reasons why 'broadsheet' newspapers don't have a single wide
> column spanning the entire width of the page, but are divided into multiple
> columns.
>
> (But I think 80 columns is a bit limited. Maybe 100 or 132.)
>
> --
> Bartc
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
"On two occasions I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the
machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able
rightly
to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a
question."

-Charles Babbage, 19th century English mathematician, philosopher, inventor
and mechanical engineer who originated the concept of a programmable
computer.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Apr 16 16:08:12 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 06:08:12 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85vb3huxjn.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Larry Martell <larry.martell at gmail.com> writes:

> if we still had 1970's 80 character TTYs that would matter but on my
> 29" 1920x1080 screen it doesn't.

Larry, you've been around long enough to know that's not an argument
against a limited line length for code. It is not about the technology
of your terminal. It's about the technology of the brain reading the
text.

-- 
 \                ?Fascism is capitalism plus murder.? ?Upton Sinclair |
  `\                                                                   |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Apr 16 16:21:54 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 06:21:54 +1000
Subject: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP
 8 updated)
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpxiYh=yKosufJvEvm5sOqeSTbgBHWCY4jFq-gmDeTa=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85potpuwwt.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:

> Maybe we need a blog post "Falsehoods Programmers Believe About PEP
> 8", along the lines of the ones about time and names.

Great suggestion. (Do you have a blog on which you could post an article
like this?)

> Remember, every one of these is false.
>
> * All Python code should follow PEP 8.
>
> * If you use a tool named pep8, your code will be PEP 8 compliant.
>
> * If your code is PEP 8 compliant, a tool named pep8 will accept it.
>
> * The Python Standard Library is PEP 8 compliant.
>
> * Okay, at least the new parts of the standard library are PEP 8
>   compliant.
>
> * PEP 8 compliant code is inherently better than non-compliant code.
>
> * PEP8-ing existing code will improve it.
>
> * Once code is PEP 8 compliant, it can easily be kept that way through
>   subsequent edits.
>
> * PEP 8 never changes.
>
> * Well, it never materially changes.
>
> * I mean, new advice, sure, but it'll never actually go back on a
>   rule.

* The line length limit is obsolete in an age of high-resolution
  displays.

* Okay, but if you disregard side-by-side windows, lines of code can be
  arbitrarily long without hurting readability.

* Well, maybe not several hundred characters, but surely 120 characters
  of code on a line is easy enough to read.

* The only valid white space is line breaks and U+0020 SPACE.

* Okay, U+0009 TAB when lining up columns, but no other white space.

* Oh, come on, no-one would use U+000C FORM FEED in source code.

-- 
 \       ?The apparent lesson of the Inquisition is that insistence on |
  `\         uniformity of belief is fatal to intellectual, moral, and |
_o__)    spiritual health.? ?_The Uses Of The Past_, Herbert J. Muller |
Ben Finney



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Apr 16 16:24:14 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 06:24:14 +1000
Subject: sys.exit(1) vs raise SystemExit vs raise
References: <CACT3xuUFeOXbjwiWhgZ90UMPi5xXQaj9HpxU3Aepz2Hr8Kw42Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160416034833.GA24653@cskk.homeip.net>
 <858u0ew5qg.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <1460784872.1843058.580428001.63445E11@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85zisuujn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <lno4hb1hpnqfqfmt1cq0r8gmhm4fmq1ajf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <85lh4duwsx.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:

> On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 16:56:10 +1000, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au>
> declaimed the following:
>
> >It seems strange that even the constant for ?no error? exit status
> >should be defined only for Unix :-/
>
> 	VMS had a whole slew of "no error" status values

That's fine; those values can be defined per operating system, and
maybe they should be.

My concern is that (according to the documentation) the ?no error? exit
status *isn't even defined* on non-Unix operating systems, as though
no other OS uses it.

-- 
 \     ?Do unto others twenty-five percent better than you expect them |
  `\      to do unto you. (The twenty-five percent is [to correct] for |
_o__)                            error.)? ?Linus Pauling's Golden Rule |
Ben Finney



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 16:31:53 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 06:31:53 +1000
Subject: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light:
 PEP 8 updated)
In-Reply-To: <85potpuwwt.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpxiYh=yKosufJvEvm5sOqeSTbgBHWCY4jFq-gmDeTa=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85potpuwwt.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo4xnjuGs9OTQaFip5BZ61QMQnNrDx=tBspZ-ZN_QjHgA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 6:21 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Great suggestion. (Do you have a blog on which you could post an article
> like this?)

I do. I'll let people contribute for a while, and then I'll post it on
rosuav.blogspot.com.

Thanks for the additions!

ChrisA


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Sat Apr 16 16:37:52 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 22:37:52 +0200
Subject: How to parameterize unittests
In-Reply-To: <57111b0b$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <570FA466.20003@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.106.1460642951.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <570fb1a3$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <57108FAC.3020105@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmreV+Ed722t7mUUC62L2u8gT-CE5K9ASGon1PHMYFdmTQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5710A442.8000906@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.5.1460708428.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <5710affd$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <5710D3DA.6030005@rece.vub.ac.be> <5710E30B.6050304@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <mailman.22.1460724628.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <57111b0b$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <5712A2A0.7080606@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 15-04-16 om 18:47 schreef Steven D'Aprano:
> On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 10:48 pm, Antoon Pardon wrote:
> 
>> Starting from this:
>>
>>     class Test_AVLTree(unittest.TestCase):
>>  
>>         def test_empty_tree_is_false(self):
>>             instance = avltree()
>>             self.assertFalse(instance)
>>
>> Changing it into this:
>>
>>     def MakeAVLTest(avltree):
>>         class Test_AVLTree(unittest.TestCase):
>>
>>             def test_empty_tree_is_false(self):
>>                 instance = avltree()
>>                 self.assertFalse(instance)
>>
>>         return Test_AVLTree
>>
>>     AVLTest = MakeAVLTest(avltree)
>>     MyTreeTest = MakeAVLTest(mytree)
>>
>> Seems to work
> 
> Right up to the moment that you realise that you need different tests for a
> subclass, and now you can't using subclassing because they aren't
> subclasses, they're completely independent classes that happen to duplicate
> the same methods.
> 
> If the tests for your AVL tree and it's subclasses are *identical*, then
> what's the point of the subclasses?

The subclass has a key-function as a static method similar to the key argument
for sort. This way I can have a tree with strings as keys, but with the
keys sorted according to the locale with the locale.strxfrm function.

This means the only tests that need changing are the tests that test for
iterators to deliver the items in sorted order. But that can be done
by letting the test check for the presence of the keyfunction and in
that case, use if to check if things are in order.

-- 
Antoon



From random832 at fastmail.com  Sat Apr 16 16:44:30 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 16:44:30 -0400
Subject: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light:
 PEP 8 updated)
In-Reply-To: <85potpuwwt.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpxiYh=yKosufJvEvm5sOqeSTbgBHWCY4jFq-gmDeTa=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85potpuwwt.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <1460839470.2322496.580822385.2D74AE6C@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016, at 16:21, Ben Finney wrote:
> * Oh, come on, no-one would use U+000C FORM FEED in source code.

Some text editors have shortcuts to navigate to the previous/next line
that begins with a form feed.


From dan at tombstonezero.net  Sat Apr 16 17:22:48 2016
From: dan at tombstonezero.net (Dan Sommers)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 21:22:48 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the
 light: PEP 8 updated)
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpxiYh=yKosufJvEvm5sOqeSTbgBHWCY4jFq-gmDeTa=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85potpuwwt.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <1460839470.2322496.580822385.2D74AE6C@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.65.1460839473.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <neuaf8$j00$1@dont-email.me>

On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 16:44:30 -0400, Random832 wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016, at 16:21, Ben Finney wrote:
>> * Oh, come on, no-one would use U+000C FORM FEED in source code.
> 
> Some text editors have shortcuts to navigate to the previous/next line
> that begins with a form feed.

Add these to the list of myths:

* All producers use the same tools to produce code.
* All consumers use the same tools to consume code.
* All entities that produce and consume code use the same tools.
* All entities use the same tools to consume code that they do to produce it.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 17:23:25 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 07:23:25 +1000
Subject: Fraud
In-Reply-To: <444136AD-6A91-4BCE-B80F-6D1B5A8F4B65@yahoo.com>
References: <444136AD-6A91-4BCE-B80F-6D1B5A8F4B65@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoycrwQA5bCZY1FoRLo2bWAybLjqtazLajpKNd+utMbfg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 3:12 AM, Mel Drosis via Python-list
<python-list at python.org> wrote:
>
> My phone my accounts my home network have all been affected because of someone using coding from Python and Linux and GitHub and json. I don't even know what this stuff is but how do I get rid of it all. It's ruined my life.
>

You don't need Python help after an attack like this any more than you
need an automotive mechanic after you've been run over by a car. What
you need is someone who can help you repair your systems and fix your
security; I suggest looking locally in your area for a computer
expert.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 17:34:20 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 07:34:20 +1000
Subject: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light:
 PEP 8 updated)
In-Reply-To: <neuaf8$j00$1@dont-email.me>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpxiYh=yKosufJvEvm5sOqeSTbgBHWCY4jFq-gmDeTa=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85potpuwwt.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <1460839470.2322496.580822385.2D74AE6C@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.65.1460839473.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <neuaf8$j00$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr1aiT2Oi5W+gqiHHuL=wcB+2vr4cOSPqRFhbrOYJvopg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 7:22 AM, Dan Sommers <dan at tombstonezero.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 16:44:30 -0400, Random832 wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016, at 16:21, Ben Finney wrote:
>>> * Oh, come on, no-one would use U+000C FORM FEED in source code.
>>
>> Some text editors have shortcuts to navigate to the previous/next line
>> that begins with a form feed.
>
> Add these to the list of myths:
>
> * All producers use the same tools to produce code.
> * All consumers use the same tools to consume code.
> * All entities that produce and consume code use the same tools.
> * All entities use the same tools to consume code that they do to produce it.

Those are definitely myths, but are they sufficiently connected to PEP 8?

ChrisA


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sat Apr 16 17:50:27 2016
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 16:50:27 -0500
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <85vb3huxjn.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85vb3huxjn.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <20160416165027.0fe70e5f@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2016-04-17 06:08, Ben Finney wrote:
> Larry Martell <larry.martell at gmail.com> writes:
> > if we still had 1970's 80 character TTYs that would matter but on
> > my 29" 1920x1080 screen it doesn't.
> 
> Larry, you've been around long enough to know that's not an argument
> against a limited line length for code. It is not about the
> technology of your terminal. It's about the technology of the brain
> reading the text.

But just in case you do want to consider hardware limits, I do some
of my coding on my phone & tablet, both of which are ~80 characters
wide at best (or less if I use the phone in portrait mode).  I also do
some editing/diffing within a cmd.exe window on Windows which is
limited to 80 characters unless you do some hijinks in the settings
to expand it.

-tkc




From ykt2271707491 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 17:53:48 2016
From: ykt2271707491 at gmail.com (ykt2271707491 at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 14:53:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python2.7 win64 --- cannot install the package of scipy
Message-ID: <66c616a4-a36f-437e-9ce0-e7694d28af7a@googlegroups.com>

I failed to install the package of scipy on Python2.7(win64).

1. I tried the direct way that use cmd--pip install scripy. The result shows that it failed with error code 1 in c:\tyk\appdata\local\temp\pip-build-an9fye\scipy\.

2. I tried to install in another way. I download the scipy-0.17.0-cp27-none-win_amd64.whl from Unofficial Windows Binaries for Python Extension Packages. And use cmd to install that in the Scripts direction, but still failed.(I have installed the package wheel already). The result shows that scipy-0.17.0-cp27-none-win_amd64.whl is not a supported wheel on this platform.

Would someone provide a pointer? Much appreciated!


From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 18:02:50 2016
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 18:02:50 -0400
Subject: Fraud
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmoycrwQA5bCZY1FoRLo2bWAybLjqtazLajpKNd+utMbfg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <444136AD-6A91-4BCE-B80F-6D1B5A8F4B65@yahoo.com>
 <CAPTjJmoycrwQA5bCZY1FoRLo2bWAybLjqtazLajpKNd+utMbfg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+zyPzuZh5fxDoT7-e_dGj=5GT2mRAxcJ9T-LasrzHKrxA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 3:12 AM, Mel Drosis via Python-list
> <python-list at python.org> wrote:
>>
>> My phone my accounts my home network have all been affected because of someone using coding from Python and Linux and GitHub and json. I don't even know what this stuff is but how do I get rid of it all. It's ruined my life.
>>
>
> You don't need Python help after an attack like this any more than you
> need an automotive mechanic after you've been run over by a car. What
> you need is someone who can help you repair your systems and fix your
> security; I suggest looking locally in your area for a computer
> expert.
>
> ChrisA
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Help, I've fallen down and I can't reach my beer!

Sorry :(

I'm curious as to what makes you think all this trouble was caused by
python, etc.  Did they leave a note?

-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays


From timothy.c.delaney at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 18:15:55 2016
From: timothy.c.delaney at gmail.com (Tim Delaney)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 08:15:55 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <20160416165027.0fe70e5f@bigbox.christie.dr>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85vb3huxjn.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <20160416165027.0fe70e5f@bigbox.christie.dr>
Message-ID: <CAN8CLgn9YNZ1YE=AhZdx3vC6rkF9NVX306Yk1SB1DKDXWPMa_Q@mail.gmail.com>

On 17 April 2016 at 07:50, Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:

> On 2016-04-17 06:08, Ben Finney wrote:
> > Larry Martell <larry.martell at gmail.com> writes:
> > > if we still had 1970's 80 character TTYs that would matter but on
> > > my 29" 1920x1080 screen it doesn't.
> >
> > Larry, you've been around long enough to know that's not an argument
> > against a limited line length for code. It is not about the
> > technology of your terminal. It's about the technology of the brain
> > reading the text.
>
> But just in case you do want to consider hardware limits, I do some
> of my coding on my phone & tablet, both of which are ~80 characters
> wide at best (or less if I use the phone in portrait mode).  I also do
> some editing/diffing within a cmd.exe window on Windows which is
> limited to 80 characters unless you do some hijinks in the settings
> to expand it.
>

Personally, I've given up on 80 characters (or even 120 in rare cases) for
Java code (esp method declarations), where just specifying the generics can
often take almost that much.

But for Python code it's generally fairly easy to break a line in a natural
place.

Tim Delaney


From python at lucidity.plus.com  Sat Apr 16 18:21:53 2016
From: python at lucidity.plus.com (Erik)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 23:21:53 +0100
Subject: Fraud
In-Reply-To: <CAPM-O+zyPzuZh5fxDoT7-e_dGj=5GT2mRAxcJ9T-LasrzHKrxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <444136AD-6A91-4BCE-B80F-6D1B5A8F4B65@yahoo.com>
 <CAPTjJmoycrwQA5bCZY1FoRLo2bWAybLjqtazLajpKNd+utMbfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPM-O+zyPzuZh5fxDoT7-e_dGj=5GT2mRAxcJ9T-LasrzHKrxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5712BB01.4010001@lucidity.plus.com>

On 16/04/16 23:02, Joel Goldstick wrote:
>> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 3:12 AM, Mel Drosis via Python-list
>> <python-list at python.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> My phone my accounts my home network have all been affected because of someone using coding from Python and Linux and GitHub and json. I don't even know what this stuff is but how do I get rid of it all. It's ruined my life.

> I'm curious as to what makes you think all this trouble was caused by
> python, etc.  Did they leave a note?

If this is genuine, then I don't want to be dismissive of the plea. 
However, given that Chris's response is quite enough for a genuine 
request to find a solution, I'll say that I smell a feint hint of troll 
... :)

E



From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Apr 16 18:30:07 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 01:30:07 +0300
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85vb3huxjn.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <20160416165027.0fe70e5f@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <CAN8CLgn9YNZ1YE=AhZdx3vC6rkF9NVX306Yk1SB1DKDXWPMa_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.71.1460844965.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87potp5gr4.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney at gmail.com>:

> Personally, I've given up on 80 characters (or even 120 in rare cases)
> for Java code (esp method declarations), where just specifying the
> generics can often take almost that much.

Java generics ruined a perfectly good language. I mean:

    Map<AccountManager, List<Customer>> customersOfAccountManager =
        new HashMap<AccountManagerImpl, LinkedList<CustomerImpl>>();

where classic Java would have:

    Map customersOfAccountManager = new HashMap();

and Python simply:

    customers_of_account_manager = {}

However, even during my Java years, I didn't give up on the 79-character
religion (see above).


Marko


From torriem at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 18:31:32 2016
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 16:31:32 -0600
Subject: Fraud
In-Reply-To: <5712BB01.4010001@lucidity.plus.com>
References: <444136AD-6A91-4BCE-B80F-6D1B5A8F4B65@yahoo.com>
 <CAPTjJmoycrwQA5bCZY1FoRLo2bWAybLjqtazLajpKNd+utMbfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPM-O+zyPzuZh5fxDoT7-e_dGj=5GT2mRAxcJ9T-LasrzHKrxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5712BB01.4010001@lucidity.plus.com>
Message-ID: <5712BD44.5030009@gmail.com>

On 04/16/2016 04:21 PM, Erik wrote:
> On 16/04/16 23:02, Joel Goldstick wrote:
>>> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 3:12 AM, Mel Drosis via Python-list
>>> <python-list at python.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My phone my accounts my home network have all been affected because of someone using coding from Python and Linux and GitHub and json. I don't even know what this stuff is but how do I get rid of it all. It's ruined my life.
> 
>> I'm curious as to what makes you think all this trouble was caused by
>> python, etc.  Did they leave a note?
> 
> If this is genuine, then I don't want to be dismissive of the plea. 
> However, given that Chris's response is quite enough for a genuine 
> request to find a solution, I'll say that I smell a feint hint of troll 
> ... :)

Reminds me of this classic story from 10 years ago:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/24/tuttle_centos/



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 18:33:23 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 08:33:23 +1000
Subject: Fraud
In-Reply-To: <5712BB01.4010001@lucidity.plus.com>
References: <444136AD-6A91-4BCE-B80F-6D1B5A8F4B65@yahoo.com>
 <CAPTjJmoycrwQA5bCZY1FoRLo2bWAybLjqtazLajpKNd+utMbfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPM-O+zyPzuZh5fxDoT7-e_dGj=5GT2mRAxcJ9T-LasrzHKrxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5712BB01.4010001@lucidity.plus.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqHXw1-xgcqOwKc9OuxCSqV32Q6pQg9wkz5UcXJZT0o7Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 8:21 AM, Erik <python at lucidity.plus.com> wrote:
> On 16/04/16 23:02, Joel Goldstick wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 3:12 AM, Mel Drosis via Python-list
>>> <python-list at python.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My phone my accounts my home network have all been affected because of
>>>> someone using coding from Python and Linux and GitHub and json. I don't even
>>>> know what this stuff is but how do I get rid of it all. It's ruined my life.
>
>
>> I'm curious as to what makes you think all this trouble was caused by
>> python, etc.  Did they leave a note?
>
>
> If this is genuine, then I don't want to be dismissive of the plea. However,
> given that Chris's response is quite enough for a genuine request to find a
> solution, I'll say that I smell a feint hint of troll ... :)

It sounds fairly plausible. "Help, I just got 'got'! Now what?"
*researches* "Hmm, I'm seeing a lot of stuff about Python and Linux
and stuff. Where can I get help about Python?"

The request is misdirected (we can't help), but not unreasonable IMO.

ChrisA


From wrh8609 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 18:35:55 2016
From: wrh8609 at gmail.com (wrh8609 at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 15:35:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to setup for localhost:8000
In-Reply-To: <a5cbb46c-8d7d-482f-a608-57ba48e2df40@googlegroups.com>
References: <5ea1e31b-09ba-4b6a-be8b-58886c5c5f81@googlegroups.com>
 <CA+y5TLbED=JjcPG4-qfn=7tH=Y=6PQa+MMpvh_8uNT2srh7dBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.112.1460658199.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <2e597a56-00ab-4370-b337-667f34eac56a@googlegroups.com>
 <a5cbb46c-8d7d-482f-a608-57ba48e2df40@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <67abca1d-8ac5-4a9a-825d-3aa76d9ccf3f@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 15, 2016 at 3:04:09 PM UTC-4, Pierre Quentel wrote:
> Le jeudi 14 avril 2016 22:50:33 UTC+2, wrh... at gmail.com a ?crit?:
> > On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 2:23:36 PM UTC-4, Andrew Farrell wrote:
> > > What happens when you type
> > > 
> > > http://localhost:8000
> > > 
> > > Into the address bar of your browser as this is running?
> > > 
> > > On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 12:46 PM, <wrh8609 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I am working on window 7 and Python 3.5 to setup a localhost:8000 but it
> > > > did not get through as shown below:
> > > > > python -m http.server
> > > > Serving HTTP on 0.0.0.0 port 8000 ...
> > > >
> > > > But it did not show the results.
> > > >
> > > > Can someone help me how to setup the localhost?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Wen-Ruey
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > > >
> > 
> > hi Andrew,
> > 
> > Yes. after I type http:\\localhost:8000, the browser did not show anything except a empty page without any errors.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Wen-Ruey
> 
> Hi,
> 
> When you type http://localhost:8000, do you see something in the console after the line  "Serving HTTP on 0.0.0.0 port 8000 ..." ?
> 
> If the server actually serves requests on port 8000 you should see a log message such as
> 
> 127.0.0.1 - - [15/Apr/2016 20:57:32] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 -
 Hi Pierre,

When I type http://localhost:8000, I did not see anything in the console after the line "Serving HTTP on 0.0.0.0 port 8000 ... I believe the way I ran was not correct as shown below:
> python -m http.server 
Serving HTTP on 0.0.0.0 port 8000 ...

Also if I use internet Explorer, it shows HTTP 404 errors.
Do you think the way I am doing of the localhost:8000 setting was not correct?

Thanks,
Wen-Ruey


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 19:11:14 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 09:11:14 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <isg5hbhip0ljhrbbpt1tg1iq1cemu4e0lm@4ax.com>
References: <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <isg5hbhip0ljhrbbpt1tg1iq1cemu4e0lm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpV6UzXdRQbSKf1qu_tSXBFJ3VZsu-3BNOYK92m5nW70g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 9:02 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber
<wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>         I still miss the Amiga -- in which one could /push/ a window to the
> back of the stack while still retaining input focus! Made it nice for
> transcribing stuff from a visible window to a text input region while it
> was obscured.

OS/2 could do the same thing. I've tried to mess with it in various
Linux desktops, but haven't really found what I want.

ChrisA


From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 19:19:22 2016
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 23:19:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <isg5hbhip0ljhrbbpt1tg1iq1cemu4e0lm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <neuh9q$s1l$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2016-04-16, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> I still miss the Amiga -- in which one could /push/ a window to the
> back of the stack while still retaining input focus! Made it nice for
> transcribing stuff from a visible window to a text input region while it
> was obscured.

I do that all the time on Linux. What sort of brain-dead window
manager doesn't allow that?

-- 
Grant





From ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk  Sat Apr 16 19:25:00 2016
From: ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk (Ben Bacarisse)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 00:25:00 +0100
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <isg5hbhip0ljhrbbpt1tg1iq1cemu4e0lm@4ax.com>
 <mailman.76.1460847762.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87zistp25v.fsf@bsb.me.uk>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:
<snip>
> 	I still miss the Amiga -- in which one could /push/ a window to the
> back of the stack while still retaining input focus! Made it nice for
> transcribing stuff from a visible window to a text input region while it
> was obscured.

That was commonly available on Unix window managers and is still around.
I use it on even an up-to-date Linux/Gnome3 system (you set focus
follows mouse rather than focus on click).

-- 
Ben.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 19:33:40 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 09:33:40 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <87zistp25v.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
References: <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <isg5hbhip0ljhrbbpt1tg1iq1cemu4e0lm@4ax.com>
 <mailman.76.1460847762.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87zistp25v.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpYCoCY__tqvO2jDT8VSxwzWP-c2NkhKyw99yTS76Laag@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 9:25 AM, Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk> wrote:
> Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:
> <snip>
>>       I still miss the Amiga -- in which one could /push/ a window to the
>> back of the stack while still retaining input focus! Made it nice for
>> transcribing stuff from a visible window to a text input region while it
>> was obscured.
>
> That was commonly available on Unix window managers and is still around.
> I use it on even an up-to-date Linux/Gnome3 system (you set focus
> follows mouse rather than focus on click).

Focus follows mouse is annoying for other reasons though.

ChrisA


From dan at tombstonezero.net  Sat Apr 16 19:35:06 2016
From: dan at tombstonezero.net (Dan Sommers)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 23:35:06 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the
 light: PEP 8 updated)
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpxiYh=yKosufJvEvm5sOqeSTbgBHWCY4jFq-gmDeTa=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85potpuwwt.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <1460839470.2322496.580822385.2D74AE6C@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.65.1460839473.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <neuaf8$j00$1@dont-email.me>
 <CAPTjJmr1aiT2Oi5W+gqiHHuL=wcB+2vr4cOSPqRFhbrOYJvopg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1460842470.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <neui7a$u2p$1@dont-email.me>

On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 07:34:20 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 7:22 AM, Dan Sommers <dan at tombstonezero.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 16:44:30 -0400, Random832 wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016, at 16:21, Ben Finney wrote:
>>>> * Oh, come on, no-one would use U+000C FORM FEED in source code.
>>>
>>> Some text editors have shortcuts to navigate to the previous/next line
>>> that begins with a form feed.
>>
>> Add these to the list of myths:
>>
>> * All producers use the same tools to produce code.
>> * All consumers use the same tools to consume code.
>> * All entities that produce and consume code use the same tools.
>> * All entities use the same tools to consume code that they do to produce it.
> 
> Those are definitely myths, but are they sufficiently connected to PEP 8?
> 
> ChrisA

PEP8 is all about readability, and we all read source code through one
tool and/or another.  Anecdotally, a lot of readability arguments
(including that one about some text editors treating U+000C as a special
case) end up being as much about the tools we use as they are about the
source code itself.

We (this mailing list, or maybe it was the python-ideas mailing list)
just had a thread about non-ASCII characters in identifiers.  One of the
main argument against is the confusables (A vs ? vs ?).  Sufficient
tooling, however, could render (pun intended) that argument moot.  Not
too long ago, one of the main arguments against was that not everyone's
tools could even render ? or ?.


From wrightalexw at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 19:43:40 2016
From: wrightalexw at gmail.com (alex wright)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 19:43:40 -0400
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpYCoCY__tqvO2jDT8VSxwzWP-c2NkhKyw99yTS76Laag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <isg5hbhip0ljhrbbpt1tg1iq1cemu4e0lm@4ax.com>
 <mailman.76.1460847762.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87zistp25v.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
 <CAPTjJmpYCoCY__tqvO2jDT8VSxwzWP-c2NkhKyw99yTS76Laag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJpBq5OdBLC7f2zGEg807r7pFAQW4h_xyev_GBjft7BDgc0xtg@mail.gmail.com>

The 80 column limit probably helps protect us from the singularity.  Once
the robots take over we will have code with a digestible amount of logic
per line and can fix what we have caused.  In other words, Java is only
armoring the robots against us for the inevitable battle.

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 7:33 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 9:25 AM, Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk>
> wrote:
> > Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:
> > <snip>
> >>       I still miss the Amiga -- in which one could /push/ a window to
> the
> >> back of the stack while still retaining input focus! Made it nice for
> >> transcribing stuff from a visible window to a text input region while it
> >> was obscured.
> >
> > That was commonly available on Unix window managers and is still around.
> > I use it on even an up-to-date Linux/Gnome3 system (you set focus
> > follows mouse rather than focus on click).
>
> Focus follows mouse is annoying for other reasons though.
>
> ChrisA
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
"On two occasions I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the
machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able
rightly
to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a
question."

-Charles Babbage, 19th century English mathematician, philosopher, inventor
and mechanical engineer who originated the concept of a programmable
computer.


From gheskett at wdtv.com  Sat Apr 16 19:49:08 2016
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 19:49:08 -0400
Subject: Fraud
In-Reply-To: <CAPM-O+zyPzuZh5fxDoT7-e_dGj=5GT2mRAxcJ9T-LasrzHKrxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <444136AD-6A91-4BCE-B80F-6D1B5A8F4B65@yahoo.com>
 <CAPTjJmoycrwQA5bCZY1FoRLo2bWAybLjqtazLajpKNd+utMbfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPM-O+zyPzuZh5fxDoT7-e_dGj=5GT2mRAxcJ9T-LasrzHKrxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201604161949.08423.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Saturday 16 April 2016 18:02:50 Joel Goldstick wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> 
wrote:
> > On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 3:12 AM, Mel Drosis via Python-list
> >
> > <python-list at python.org> wrote:
> >> My phone my accounts my home network have all been affected because
> >> of someone using coding from Python and Linux and GitHub and json.
> >> I don't even know what this stuff is but how do I get rid of it
> >> all. It's ruined my life.
> >
> > You don't need Python help after an attack like this any more than
> > you need an automotive mechanic after you've been run over by a car.
> > What you need is someone who can help you repair your systems and
> > fix your security; I suggest looking locally in your area for a
> > computer expert.
> >
> > ChrisA
> > --
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> Help, I've fallen down and I can't reach my beer!
>
> Sorry :(
>
I haven't fallen, and I can reach my beer, but in this factless post, 
beer doesn't help. :)

> I'm curious as to what makes you think all this trouble was caused by
> python, etc.  Did they leave a note?
>
> --
> Joel Goldstick
> http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
> http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sat Apr 16 20:12:54 2016
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 19:12:54 -0500
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <isg5hbhip0ljhrbbpt1tg1iq1cemu4e0lm@4ax.com>
References: <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <isg5hbhip0ljhrbbpt1tg1iq1cemu4e0lm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20160416191254.38be21e8@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2016-04-16 19:02, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> 	I still miss the Amiga -- in which one could /push/ a
> window to the back of the stack while still retaining input focus!
> Made it nice for transcribing stuff from a visible window to a text
> input region while it was obscured.

What OS (or if X-based, which window-manager) do you use?  I have

  Mod4 Next :LowerLayer
  Mod4 Prior :RaiseLayer

in my ~/.fluxbox/keys configuration which lets me use the logo key
with pageup/pagedown to raise/lower the focus of the current window.
I find that most of the time I want to raise one particular window
above all other windows (most of the time I end up closing it when
done, but sometimes I want to lower it back down to the main
application layer).

-tkc




From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 20:20:13 2016
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 20:20:13 -0400
Subject: Fraud
In-Reply-To: <201604161949.08423.gheskett@wdtv.com>
References: <444136AD-6A91-4BCE-B80F-6D1B5A8F4B65@yahoo.com>
 <CAPTjJmoycrwQA5bCZY1FoRLo2bWAybLjqtazLajpKNd+utMbfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPM-O+zyPzuZh5fxDoT7-e_dGj=5GT2mRAxcJ9T-LasrzHKrxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <201604161949.08423.gheskett@wdtv.com>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+woryCt0zSK_vs3bFgXRxfE5yhjhHqKSmXyEH_9=jV-Hw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 7:49 PM, Gene Heskett <gheskett at wdtv.com> wrote:
> On Saturday 16 April 2016 18:02:50 Joel Goldstick wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> > On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 3:12 AM, Mel Drosis via Python-list
>> >
>> > <python-list at python.org> wrote:
>> >> My phone my accounts my home network have all been affected because
>> >> of someone using coding from Python and Linux and GitHub and json.
>> >> I don't even know what this stuff is but how do I get rid of it
>> >> all. It's ruined my life.
>> >
>> > You don't need Python help after an attack like this any more than
>> > you need an automotive mechanic after you've been run over by a car.
>> > What you need is someone who can help you repair your systems and
>> > fix your security; I suggest looking locally in your area for a
>> > computer expert.
>> >
>> > ChrisA
>> > --
>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>> Help, I've fallen down and I can't reach my beer!
>>
>> Sorry :(
>>
> I haven't fallen, and I can reach my beer, but in this factless post,
> beer doesn't help. :)
>
>> I'm curious as to what makes you think all this trouble was caused by
>> python, etc.  Did they leave a note?
>>
>> --
>> Joel Goldstick
>> http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
>> http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Sorry Gene, but I'm a long time reader and sometimes contributor to
this list, and there are some things that are just a bit nutty.  I
imagine that this post is from someone who really is upset, but his
response to the list is really a bit silly in my opinion.  It isn't
about python, so I thought I'd be light hearted.

As it turns out, the OP hasn't engaged in any further back and forth,
which to me enforces my original post.

-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Apr 16 20:24:19 2016
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 01:24:19 +0100
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpV6UzXdRQbSKf1qu_tSXBFJ3VZsu-3BNOYK92m5nW70g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <isg5hbhip0ljhrbbpt1tg1iq1cemu4e0lm@4ax.com>
 <CAPTjJmpV6UzXdRQbSKf1qu_tSXBFJ3VZsu-3BNOYK92m5nW70g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5712D7B3.5090404@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-17 00:11, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 9:02 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber
> <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>         I still miss the Amiga -- in which one could /push/ a window to the
>> back of the stack while still retaining input focus! Made it nice for
>> transcribing stuff from a visible window to a text input region while it
>> was obscured.
>
> OS/2 could do the same thing. I've tried to mess with it in various
> Linux desktops, but haven't really found what I want.
>
You could also do that on Acorn's RISC OS.



From ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk  Sat Apr 16 20:29:49 2016
From: ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk (Ben Bacarisse)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 01:29:49 +0100
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <isg5hbhip0ljhrbbpt1tg1iq1cemu4e0lm@4ax.com>
 <mailman.76.1460847762.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87zistp25v.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
 <CAPTjJmpYCoCY__tqvO2jDT8VSxwzWP-c2NkhKyw99yTS76Laag@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.80.1460849628.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87oa99oz5u.fsf@bsb.me.uk>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:

> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 9:25 AM, Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk> wrote:
>> Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:
>> <snip>
>>>       I still miss the Amiga -- in which one could /push/ a window to the
>>> back of the stack while still retaining input focus! Made it nice for
>>> transcribing stuff from a visible window to a text input region while it
>>> was obscured.
>>
>> That was commonly available on Unix window managers and is still around.
>> I use it on even an up-to-date Linux/Gnome3 system (you set focus
>> follows mouse rather than focus on click).
>
> Focus follows mouse is annoying for other reasons though.

Sure.  But if you want it only sometimes you can bind a key to turn it
on or off so you can have it only momentarily.

The other way is to bind a key (if not already bound) to the "lower
winder" action.  That won't (or shouldn't) alter the focus and will push
the window under the one you want to see.

-- 
Ben.


From random832 at fastmail.com  Sat Apr 16 20:54:00 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 20:54:00 -0400
Subject: Fraud
In-Reply-To: <CAPM-O+woryCt0zSK_vs3bFgXRxfE5yhjhHqKSmXyEH_9=jV-Hw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <444136AD-6A91-4BCE-B80F-6D1B5A8F4B65@yahoo.com>
 <CAPTjJmoycrwQA5bCZY1FoRLo2bWAybLjqtazLajpKNd+utMbfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPM-O+zyPzuZh5fxDoT7-e_dGj=5GT2mRAxcJ9T-LasrzHKrxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <201604161949.08423.gheskett@wdtv.com>
 <CAPM-O+woryCt0zSK_vs3bFgXRxfE5yhjhHqKSmXyEH_9=jV-Hw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1460854440.2366362.580922841.07DFDE6F@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016, at 20:20, Joel Goldstick wrote:
> As it turns out, the OP hasn't engaged in any further back and forth,
> which to me enforces my original post.

It's entirely possible he's not subscribed to the mailing list.


From steve at pearwood.info  Sat Apr 16 21:17:01 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 11:17:01 +1000
Subject: sys.exit(1) vs raise SystemExit vs raise
References: <CACT3xuUFeOXbjwiWhgZ90UMPi5xXQaj9HpxU3Aepz2Hr8Kw42Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160416034833.GA24653@cskk.homeip.net> <858u0ew5qg.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <1460784872.1843058.580428001.63445E11@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85zisuujn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <lno4hb1hpnqfqfmt1cq0r8gmhm4fmq1ajf@4ax.com>
 <mailman.52.1460822977.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5712e40e$0$1593$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 02:09 am, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:


> VMS had a whole slew of "no error" status values (essentially all
> positive odd integers were "success", but different values carried
> additional information. 

1 = success
3 = success against all odds
5 = success but at great cost
7 = success, and it was as easy as falling off a log
9 = success, and it was so easy you ought to be ashamed for
    asking the computer to do it instead of doing it yourself
11 = I told you I already did it yesterday
13 = done, but it wasn't worth doing
15 = well that was easier than I expected
17 = that was harder than I expected
19 = I did it, but I'm not going to do it again

> Even integers were errors [I forget if positive or 
> negative were "warnings" vs "error"])
> 
> True, the simplest was "1", which just carried "success -- no
> additional details" and "0" was "unspecified failure".



-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Sat Apr 16 21:27:33 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 11:27:33 +1000
Subject: Fraud
References: <444136AD-6A91-4BCE-B80F-6D1B5A8F4B65@yahoo.com>
 <mailman.66.1460841502.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5712e685$0$1597$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 03:12 am, Mel Drosis wrote:

> 
> My phone my accounts my home network have all been affected because of
> someone using coding from Python and Linux and GitHub and json. I don't
> even know what this stuff is but how do I get rid of it all. It's ruined
> my life. Sent from my iPhone

Go to Russia.

Find a corrupt Russian general.

Purchase the biggest nuclear warhead you can afford, at least 20 megatons.

Launch it into space and detonate it in near-Earth orbit.

When the radiation hits the atmosphere, it will generate the mother of all
electromagnetic pulses.

Which will permanently fry all computer chips and most electronics all over
the world, sending the entire planet back to pre-Industrial Revolution
technology.

(You may need to do it twice, once for each hemisphere.)

Which is the only way to get rid of the scourge of "Python and Linux and
GitHub and json" once and for all.



-- 
Steven



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sat Apr 16 21:30:52 2016
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 20:30:52 -0500
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <CACL+1atx3hC7A7vB0XNNCw8QaZe-yBxzAtbzPs1MxZx43z5V0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85vb3huxjn.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <20160416165027.0fe70e5f@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <CACL+1atx3hC7A7vB0XNNCw8QaZe-yBxzAtbzPs1MxZx43z5V0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160416203052.2598ad15@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2016-04-16 19:39, eryk sun wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
> > I also do some editing/diffing within a cmd.exe window on Windows
> > which is limited to 80 characters unless you do some hijinks in
> > the settings to expand it.
> 
> Try `mode con cols=120 lines=30`.

Yeah, that will do it, as will going into the settings and changing
it. But basically every other program on Windows, and every console
on Linux/BSD/Mac will let me resize a terminal running while another
program is running.  For a cmd.exe window, I have to quit, issue the
`mode` command, restart my application, and return to where I was.

-tkc





From blueridiculous at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 21:31:19 2016
From: blueridiculous at gmail.com (blueridiculous at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 18:31:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: error with tkinter, help
Message-ID: <47977d70-6208-4e68-aca3-e1f63aacfac7@googlegroups.com>

So I was reading https://wiki.python.org/moin/TkInter for help. I got to step 3 under "Checking your Tkinter support." Nothing happens when I do steps 1 or 2, and when I do step 3, I get this error:

"
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 301, in runcode
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in <module>
  File "C:\Python34\lib\tkinter\__init__.py", line 3882, in _test
    root = Tk()
  File "C:\Python34\lib\tkinter\__init__.py", line 1856, in __init__
    self.tk = _tkinter.create(screenName, baseName, className, interactive, wantobjects, useTk, sync, use)
_tkinter.TclError: Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following directories: 
    C:/Python34/lib/tcl8.6 C:/lib/tcl8.6 C:/lib/tcl8.6 C:/library C:/library C:/tcl8.6.1/library C:/tcl8.6.1/library



This probably means that Tcl wasn't installed properly.
"

What should I do to get Tkinter working? Sorry if the answer should be obvious to me; I am not very experienced with Python.


From steve at pearwood.info  Sat Apr 16 21:38:10 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 11:38:10 +1000
Subject: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light:
 PEP 8 updated)
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpxiYh=yKosufJvEvm5sOqeSTbgBHWCY4jFq-gmDeTa=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85potpuwwt.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <1460839470.2322496.580822385.2D74AE6C@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.65.1460839473.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5712e903$0$1597$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 06:44 am, Random832 wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016, at 16:21, Ben Finney wrote:
>> * Oh, come on, no-one would use U+000C FORM FEED in source code.
> 
> Some text editors have shortcuts to navigate to the previous/next line
> that begins with a form feed.

Are you saying that's a falsehood?


-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Sat Apr 16 21:48:11 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 11:48:11 +1000
Subject: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light:
 PEP 8 updated)
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpxiYh=yKosufJvEvm5sOqeSTbgBHWCY4jFq-gmDeTa=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85potpuwwt.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <1460839470.2322496.580822385.2D74AE6C@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.65.1460839473.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <neuaf8$j00$1@dont-email.me>
 <CAPTjJmr1aiT2Oi5W+gqiHHuL=wcB+2vr4cOSPqRFhbrOYJvopg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1460842470.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <neui7a$u2p$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <5712eb5c$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 09:35 am, Dan Sommers wrote:

> We (this mailing list, or maybe it was the python-ideas mailing list)
> just had a thread about non-ASCII characters in identifiers.  One of the
> main argument against is the confusables (A vs ? vs ?).  Sufficient
> tooling, however, could render (pun intended) that argument moot.  Not
> too long ago, one of the main arguments against was that not everyone's
> tools could even render ? or ?.

Technically speaking, they still might not. My editor can render both
Cyrillic and Greek characters, but does a terrible job at Chinese and
Korean because I don't have the font support. So all I see is a series
of "missing character" boxes. There may be folks who don't have installed
fonts that support Cyrillic or Greek.



-- 
Steven



From random832 at fastmail.com  Sat Apr 16 21:59:01 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 21:59:01 -0400
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <20160416203052.2598ad15@bigbox.christie.dr>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85vb3huxjn.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <20160416165027.0fe70e5f@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <CACL+1atx3hC7A7vB0XNNCw8QaZe-yBxzAtbzPs1MxZx43z5V0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160416203052.2598ad15@bigbox.christie.dr>
Message-ID: <1460858341.2377173.580944673.0F0ECA86@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016, at 21:30, Tim Chase wrote:
> On 2016-04-16 19:39, eryk sun wrote:
> > On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
> > > I also do some editing/diffing within a cmd.exe window on Windows
> > > which is limited to 80 characters unless you do some hijinks in
> > > the settings to expand it.
> > 
> > Try `mode con cols=120 lines=30`.
> 
> Yeah, that will do it, as will going into the settings and changing
> it. But basically every other program on Windows, and every console
> on Linux/BSD/Mac will let me resize a terminal running while another
> program is running.  For a cmd.exe window, I have to quit, issue the
> `mode` command, restart my application, and return to where I was.

Well, if your interactive application allows you to run commands within
it, you don't have to quit. Plus you can always go into the settings
window, I don't know what's "hijinks" about that.

I heard Windows 10 is going to finally fix this, anyway.


From steve at pearwood.info  Sat Apr 16 22:36:12 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 12:36:12 +1000
Subject: Introducing the secrets module
Message-ID: <5712f69d$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

I'm pleased to announce a new standard library module for Python 3.6 and
better, to aid in generating secure tokens for authentication and other
secrets.

Last year, the founder of OpenBSD Theo de Raadt contacted Guido van Rossum
with concerns that the Python standard library made it too easy for people
to generate insecure tokens, session keys and related data.

The problem is that developers may use the random module for generating
tokens which need to be hard to guess. However the random module uses the
Mersenne Twister by default, which is designed for simulation and modelling
and is not suitable for cryptographic purposes. Consequently such tokens
may be insecure.

After much discussion, it was decided to leave the random module as-is, but
introduce a new module which would can be used to generate hard-to-guess
(cryptographically strong) tokens and random numbers: the secrets module.

See the PEP for more details:

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0506/

And the documentation:

https://docs.python.org/3.6/library/secrets.html


Comments requested.



-- 
Steven



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 23:44:06 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 20:44:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <8ff10001-1c49-4490-b873-018507243ea3@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 16, 2016 at 10:22:10 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Larry Martell :
> 
> > I have worked for many companies where you are required to get a clean
> > run of pep8 on your code before your pull request will even be
> > considered for approval. I don't agree with this at all, as I think it
> > makes the code very ugly, especially enforcing the max line length.
> 
> Agh, I was with you until your last remark.


Count me in the "80-chars is ante-deluvian gunk" camp

> 
> A max line length of 79 characters is among the *only* rigorous
> principles I judge coding style on.
> 
> It comes with the maxim that one function must be visible at once on the
> screen.

Thats a strange self-contradiction.  I wrote this:
 http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/layout-imperative-in-functional.html
to make the case against PEP8 style line length strictures.
Which has the SAME code formatted in two styles:

--  < 80 cols, 48 lines
--  115 cols 37 lines

Clearly the 115 cols is MORE fittable in a page than the 80 cols
[Though my argument for that is based on other structural/semantic principles]

Should mention an irony here though:
When I first wrote it, the examples were inline and blogger was breaking the lines randomly completely invalidating my point.
IIRC blogger was breaking at 68 cols -- invalidating the 80 cols from the other side.
Clearly 80 cols is more portable than longer.
However if we literally implement the view that different people use different
technologies -- AND WE SHOULD SUPPORT THEM ALL -- then notepad becomes the
ineluctable gold standard.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 23:49:17 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 13:49:17 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <8ff10001-1c49-4490-b873-018507243ea3@googlegroups.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8ff10001-1c49-4490-b873-018507243ea3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqAN-McpPUxiBRCU75mYxhU6-4_9imvBxQRFVLERBoyFA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 1:44 PM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thats a strange self-contradiction.  I wrote this:
>  http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/layout-imperative-in-functional.html
> to make the case against PEP8 style line length strictures.
> Which has the SAME code formatted in two styles:
>
> --  < 80 cols, 48 lines
> --  115 cols 37 lines
>
> Clearly the 115 cols is MORE fittable in a page than the 80 cols
> [Though my argument for that is based on other structural/semantic principles]

There are certain specific situations where 80 (79) is the correct
width to aim for, but even if you aren't going for that, there's still
the general principle that longer lines are harder to read. So maybe
you declare that your codebase is allowed to go to 100, or 120, but
you don't want to let it run to 2048. No matter WHAT screen you're on,
that's too wide!

ChrisA


From dan at tombstonezero.net  Sat Apr 16 23:52:34 2016
From: dan at tombstonezero.net (Dan Sommers)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 03:52:34 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the
 light: PEP 8 updated)
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpxiYh=yKosufJvEvm5sOqeSTbgBHWCY4jFq-gmDeTa=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85potpuwwt.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <1460839470.2322496.580822385.2D74AE6C@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.65.1460839473.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <neuaf8$j00$1@dont-email.me>
 <CAPTjJmr1aiT2Oi5W+gqiHHuL=wcB+2vr4cOSPqRFhbrOYJvopg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.68.1460842470.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <neui7a$u2p$1@dont-email.me>
 <5712eb5c$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <nev1a2$u2p$2@dont-email.me>

On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 11:48:11 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 09:35 am, Dan Sommers wrote:
> 
>> We (this mailing list, or maybe it was the python-ideas mailing list)
>> just had a thread about non-ASCII characters in identifiers.  One of
>> the main argument against is the confusables (A vs ? vs ?).
>> Sufficient tooling, however, could render (pun intended) that
>> argument moot.  Not too long ago, one of the main arguments against
>> was that not everyone's tools could even render ? or ?.
> 
> Technically speaking, they still might not. My editor can render both
> Cyrillic and Greek characters, but does a terrible job at Chinese and
> Korean because I don't have the font support. So all I see is a series
> of "missing character" boxes. There may be folks who don't have
> installed fonts that support Cyrillic or Greek.

I think we're agreeing.  Not everyone's tools render the same source
code the same way, which means that at least some part of readability
depends on the tools people use.

People who use screen readers rather than visual displays probably
wonder why the rest of us can't tell our "l"s from our "1"s and our "O"s
from our "0"s.

If PEP8 is about readability, then it should dispell the myth that
everyone perceives source code the same way through the same tools.


From nimbiotics at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 00:11:28 2016
From: nimbiotics at gmail.com (Mario R. Osorio)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 21:11:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Fraud
In-Reply-To: <mailman.66.1460841502.6324.python-list@python.org>
References: <444136AD-6A91-4BCE-B80F-6D1B5A8F4B65@yahoo.com>
 <mailman.66.1460841502.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <00b95c52-d4e6-40a3-a431-0510d5c4dbad@googlegroups.com>

Mel: Portuguese for honey
Drosis: from Greek hidr?s; to sweat


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Apr 17 00:29:18 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 00:29:18 -0400
Subject: error with tkinter, help
In-Reply-To: <47977d70-6208-4e68-aca3-e1f63aacfac7@googlegroups.com>
References: <47977d70-6208-4e68-aca3-e1f63aacfac7@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nev3g2$a0m$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/16/2016 9:31 PM, blueridiculous at gmail.com wrote:
> So I was reading https://wiki.python.org/moin/TkInter for help.
 > I got to step 3 under "Checking your Tkinter support."
 > Nothing happens when I do steps 1 or 2, and when I do step 3,
 > I get this error:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<string>", line 301, in runcode
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in <module>
>   File "C:\Python34\lib\tkinter\__init__.py", line 3882, in _test
>     root = Tk()
>   File "C:\Python34\lib\tkinter\__init__.py", line 1856, in __init__
>     self.tk = _tkinter.create(screenName, baseName, className, interactive, wantobjects, useTk, sync, use)
> _tkinter.TclError: Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following directories:
>     C:/Python34/lib/tcl8.6 C:/lib/tcl8.6 C:/lib/tcl8.6 C:/library C:/library C:/tcl8.6.1/library C:/tcl8.6.1/library
>
> This probably means that Tcl wasn't installed properly.
> "

The directory list is obsolete.  You should have C:/Python34/tcl
How did you install Python?  The Windows PSF installer from python.org 
will create this directory unless you uncheck the box to include tcl/tk.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From robertvstepp at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 00:43:22 2016
From: robertvstepp at gmail.com (boB Stepp)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 23:43:22 -0500
Subject: Installation problem
In-Reply-To: <000001d19814$707c3090$517491b0$@com>
References: <000001d19814$707c3090$517491b0$@com>
Message-ID: <CANDiX9LmV11D=g3Y1ObB++30xbTeRSeEfn6+gi4mk8=6j0jXKw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Jurell <jdsukdeo at gmail.com> wrote:


> I installed the Python program version 3.5.1 32 bit and the IDE I am going
> to use is Wing IDE 101. The problem when I tried installing the python
> program was as follows: "The program can`t start because
> api-ms-win-crt-runtime-l1-1-0.dll is missing from your computer. Try
> reinstalling the program to fix this problem". What I did was uninstall
> Python and reinstall it installed ,I proceed on to install the IDE then this
> message appeared again.

These sorts of questions get asked by many people.  When I have an
error message that I cannot figure out I do an Internet search for
that error message.  But since this is a Python-related question, I
might first search the Python list archives at
https://www.mail-archive.com/python-list at python.org/ or the Python
Tutor list archives at https://www.mail-archive.com/tutor at python.org/
Doing the former (Searching just for
"api-ms-win-crt-runtime-l1-1-0.dll") led me to this:
https://www.mail-archive.com/python-list%40python.org/msg402592.html
I have not looked at this in depth, but the second item mentioned
(Since you state you have Win 7 64 bit.) seems appropriate.  Usually I
can solve my own problems much quicker this way than waiting on
someone to respond on this (or other) mailing lists!

BTW, if you are a beginner learning Python you might want to subscribe
to the Python Tutor list as it is designed for those of us who are
learning...

boB


From eryksun at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 01:01:30 2016
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 00:01:30 -0500
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <20160416203052.2598ad15@bigbox.christie.dr>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85vb3huxjn.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <20160416165027.0fe70e5f@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <CACL+1atx3hC7A7vB0XNNCw8QaZe-yBxzAtbzPs1MxZx43z5V0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160416203052.2598ad15@bigbox.christie.dr>
Message-ID: <CACL+1au5orKtFq2C_-W4syixaGi2kgFkYQyY4uTS0H5PFzY_ug@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 8:30 PM, Tim Chase
<python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> On 2016-04-16 19:39, eryk sun wrote:
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
>> > I also do some editing/diffing within a cmd.exe window on Windows
>> > which is limited to 80 characters unless you do some hijinks in
>> > the settings to expand it.
>>
>> Try `mode con cols=120 lines=30`.
>
> Yeah, that will do it, as will going into the settings and changing
> it. But basically every other program on Windows, and every console
> on Linux/BSD/Mac will let me resize a terminal running while another
> program is running.  For a cmd.exe window, I have to quit, issue the
> `mode` command, restart my application, and return to where I was.

cmd.exe doesn't own a window. You probably meant the console
host/server, conhost.exe. cmd has handles for StandardInput,
StandardOutput, and StandardError -- which may be handles for console
I/O, but not necessarily.

I agree that the classic console window has a bad UI. It can only be
resized up to the size of the screen buffer, which is not terribly
useful. There's no way to change the screen buffer size when manually
sizing the window. You have to either use the properties dialog or the
API. In Python you can run mode.com via subprocess.call('mode.com con
cols=120'). Or you can use ctypes to call GetConsoleScreenBufferInfoEx
and SetConsoleScreenBufferInfoEx.

The Windows 10 console is a significant step in the right direction.
It automatically resizes the screen buffer with text wrapping, selects
a text stream instead of a rectangle, and uses regular keyboard
shortcuts such as Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V for copy and paste. It still has
room for improvement, however. It doesn't support fonts that mix
half-width and full-width glyphs. It can't display characters that use
multiple WCHAR values, such as astral characters (UTF-16 surrogate
pairs) and decomposed characters. It doesn't support ANSI/VT100
terminal emulation (but maybe this is in the works for the new Linux
subsystem).


From random832 at fastmail.com  Sun Apr 17 01:10:40 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 01:10:40 -0400
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <CACL+1au5orKtFq2C_-W4syixaGi2kgFkYQyY4uTS0H5PFzY_ug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85vb3huxjn.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <20160416165027.0fe70e5f@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <CACL+1atx3hC7A7vB0XNNCw8QaZe-yBxzAtbzPs1MxZx43z5V0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160416203052.2598ad15@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <CACL+1au5orKtFq2C_-W4syixaGi2kgFkYQyY4uTS0H5PFzY_ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1460869840.2418229.581008993.127F25A8@webmail.messagingengine.com>



On Sun, Apr 17, 2016, at 01:01, eryk sun wrote:
> It doesn't support fonts that mix half-width and full-width glyphs.

This is the most baffling bit to me. I mean, it _has_ to, for Chinese,
Japanese, and Korean users. This support obviously exists in the code.
Why not extend it to everyone, instead of maintaining two versions of
whatever it's doing?


From srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 02:59:45 2016
From: srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com (durgadevi1)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 23:59:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dynamic inputs
In-Reply-To: <mailman.46.1460799085.6324.python-list@python.org>
References: <901a5b60-25b3-4e1c-9178-755bf668a5c5@googlegroups.com>
 <CAGgTfkNnEk2TCKBgjcLTL2jjkrsii2qNmezQiKBpPKZs++YWbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.46.1460799085.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a399a174-b66a-49f2-8600-3884ecb23dfd@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 16, 2016 at 5:31:39 PM UTC+8, Michael Selik wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016, 9:41 AM durgadevi1 <
> srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > what does dynamic inputs mean and how is it implemented in python
> > programming?
> >
> 
> In what context did you hear or read the phrase "dynamic inputs"?
> 
> >

Oh I read it in my assignment manual. The sentence is "Use dynamic inputs to  XOR the binary file. " Thanks for your replies :)


From becon12 at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 17 03:27:14 2016
From: becon12 at hotmail.com (B N)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 08:27:14 +0100
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <DUB408-EAS366D1060CD94D347C3F589DA96A0@phx.gbl>

Foor ages, I have been trying to summon up courage learn how to program. I chose o start with Python. I found that when the ?black? screen comes on, I am unable to read/see any characters even if I turn up the brightness of the screen. So, I give up. I tried version 3.5.1. I shall be grateful for any help. 
Also I have not ben ale to save it on C/programmes/files
Thank you
Ben

Sent from Mail for Windows 10



From eryksun at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 04:14:55 2016
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 03:14:55 -0500
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <1460869840.2418229.581008993.127F25A8@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85vb3huxjn.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <20160416165027.0fe70e5f@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <CACL+1atx3hC7A7vB0XNNCw8QaZe-yBxzAtbzPs1MxZx43z5V0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160416203052.2598ad15@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <CACL+1au5orKtFq2C_-W4syixaGi2kgFkYQyY4uTS0H5PFzY_ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <1460869840.2418229.581008993.127F25A8@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1avgz2_4uz12Oosv-mfz7c0Nu90ex1ps-hTznPT=JfDPRA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 12:10 AM, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016, at 01:01, eryk sun wrote:
>> It doesn't support fonts that mix half-width and full-width glyphs.
>
> This is the most baffling bit to me. I mean, it _has_ to, for Chinese,
> Japanese, and Korean users. This support obviously exists in the code.
> Why not extend it to everyone, instead of maintaining two versions of
> whatever it's doing?

Right, the console implements this for CJK locales, in which case it
uses 2 columns for a full-width character. But based on the public
symbols, I'd guess that the implementation is tied to using a DBCS
codepage:

    0:004> x /1 /n conhostv2!*dbcs*

    ConhostV2!DBCS_SCREEN_BUFFER::CreateInstance
    ConhostV2!DBCS_SCREEN_BUFFER::`scalar deleting destructor'
    ConhostV2!DBCS_SCREEN_BUFFER::~DBCS_SCREEN_BUFFER
    ConhostV2!InitializeDbcsMisc
    ConhostV2!IsDBCSLeadByteConsole
    ConhostV2!ReCreateDbcsScreenBuffer
    ConhostV2!ReCreateDbcsScreenBufferWorker
    ConhostV2!RemoveDbcsMark
    ConhostV2!RemoveDbcsMarkAll
    ConhostV2!RemoveDbcsMarkCell
    ConhostV2!g_fIsDBCSACP

Implementing this in a Western locale would need an implementation
based on Unicode character properties.


From sergio.am.spina at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 06:04:11 2016
From: sergio.am.spina at gmail.com (Sergio Spina)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 03:04:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ReST: link bookmark
Message-ID: <d2774cf0-7cfb-434f-90eb-e04d8873d9c4@googlegroups.com>

I would know what is the way to implement in ReST a link bookmark like in this example:

> <html>
> <body>
>
> <p>This text stand for an example of text containing
> a <a name="B3Pa9-5ZRIx-1">bookmarked target</span> bookmark.</p>
>
> <p>So let's go all together to visit the bookmarked target
> clicking on <a href="#B3Pa9-5ZRIx-1">this link</a>.</p>
>
> </body>
> </html>

The string that is the name of the anchor is produced by an algorithm and 1) cannot be left away and 2) cannot be seen in the printed document.

Thanks.


From bc at freeuk.com  Sun Apr 17 06:04:40 2016
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 11:04:40 +0100
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <8ff10001-1c49-4490-b873-018507243ea3@googlegroups.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8ff10001-1c49-4490-b873-018507243ea3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nevmtj$kj2$1@dont-email.me>

On 17/04/2016 04:44, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Saturday, April 16, 2016 at 10:22:10 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

>> It comes with the maxim that one function must be visible at once on the
>> screen.
>
> Thats a strange self-contradiction.  I wrote this:
>   http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/layout-imperative-in-functional.html
> to make the case against PEP8 style line length strictures.
> Which has the SAME code formatted in two styles:
>
> --  < 80 cols, 48 lines
> --  115 cols 37 lines
>
> Clearly the 115 cols is MORE fittable in a page than the 80 cols
> [Though my argument for that is based on other structural/semantic principles]

Um, that's a different language, or does PEP8 apply to Haskell too?

Haskell has a style that likes to be written horizontally (rather than 
have statements one after another - /on separate lines/ - as in 
imperative code).

I also have trouble regarding that code as a single function, as it 
implements (AFAICS) an entire lexer. It resembles data more than 
anything else, and data presumably is allowed to be scrolled. Otherwise 
things would be very restrictive!

-- 
Bartc


From sergio.am.spina at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 06:14:41 2016
From: sergio.am.spina at gmail.com (Sergio Spina)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 03:14:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ReST: link bookmark
In-Reply-To: <d2774cf0-7cfb-434f-90eb-e04d8873d9c4@googlegroups.com>
References: <d2774cf0-7cfb-434f-90eb-e04d8873d9c4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c44396d1-2315-4128-9ac5-4d655935d7d0@googlegroups.com>

Il giorno domenica 17 aprile 2016 12:04:38 UTC+2, Sergio Spina ha scritto:
> I would know what is the way to implement in ReST a link bookmark like in this example:
> 
> > <html>
> > <body>
> >
> > <p>This text stand for an example of text containing
> > a <a name="B3Pa9-5ZRIx-1">bookmarked target</span> bookmark.</p>
> >
> > <p>So let's go all together to visit the bookmarked target
> > clicking on <a href="#B3Pa9-5ZRIx-1">this link</a>.</p>
> >
> > </body>
> > </html>
> 
> The string that is the name of the anchor is produced by an algorithm and 1) cannot be left away and 2) cannot be seen in the printed document.
> 
> Thanks.

The correct example is:

> <html>
> <body>
>
> <p>This text stand for an example of text containig
> a <a name="B3Pa9-5ZRIx-1">target</a> bookmark.</p>
>
> <p>So let's go all together to visit the target clicking
> on <a href="#B3Pa9-5ZRIx-1">this link</a>.</p>
>
> </body>
> </html>

Sorry for the mispelling.


From marko at pacujo.net  Sun Apr 17 07:01:15 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 14:01:15 +0300
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8ff10001-1c49-4490-b873-018507243ea3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <877ffw5wjo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com>:

> On Saturday, April 16, 2016 at 10:22:10 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> A max line length of 79 characters is among the *only* rigorous
>> principles I judge coding style on.
>> 
>> It comes with the maxim that one function must be visible at once on the
>> screen.
>
> Thats a strange self-contradiction.

Why? You are allowed to break a function into subfunctions, you know.

In fact, if you find yourself introducing coding "paragraphs" with
comments:

    def f(...):
        # I'll start by doing this
        ...
        # segueing into the middle portion
        ...
        # and finish it off as follows
        ...

you had better break those paragraphs off into separate functions. Just
turn your comments into function names.


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 07:14:42 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 21:14:42 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <877ffw5wjo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8ff10001-1c49-4490-b873-018507243ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <877ffw5wjo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp42FvAcgnqYEpKygG9=GkV0qw0MUygJ1UfV29jaCZkEg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 9:01 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> In fact, if you find yourself introducing coding "paragraphs" with
> comments:
>
>     def f(...):
>         # I'll start by doing this
>         ...
>         # segueing into the middle portion
>         ...
>         # and finish it off as follows
>         ...
>
> you had better break those paragraphs off into separate functions. Just
> turn your comments into function names.

It's really easy to do this in toy examples, isn't it? But the real
world is not so wonderful, as Alice's nanny said. What more often
happens is that, once the function exceeds the stipulated maximum, it
gets split somewhat arbitrarily into a "master" function and several
"part" functions, with each part having exactly one call site in the
driver and exactly none elsewhere. Even if the partial functions have
reasonable names (which they don't always), they're still tightly
bound to the master, and end up still functioning as a single unit.

Unless you can genuinely make that subfunction useful in some other
context, there's not a lot of use splitting it into a function. You
don't generally see those perfect "paragraphs" in real-world code.

ChrisA


From bc at freeuk.com  Sun Apr 17 08:04:05 2016
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 13:04:05 +0100
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <mailman.98.1460891685.6324.python-list@python.org>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8ff10001-1c49-4490-b873-018507243ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <877ffw5wjo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmp42FvAcgnqYEpKygG9=GkV0qw0MUygJ1UfV29jaCZkEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.98.1460891685.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nevttf$c5a$1@dont-email.me>

On 17/04/2016 12:14, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 9:01 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> In fact, if you find yourself introducing coding "paragraphs" with
>> comments:
>>
>>      def f(...):
>>          # I'll start by doing this
>>          ...
>>          # segueing into the middle portion
>>          ...
>>          # and finish it off as follows
>>          ...
>>
>> you had better break those paragraphs off into separate functions. Just
>> turn your comments into function names.
>
> It's really easy to do this in toy examples, isn't it? But the real
> world is not so wonderful, as Alice's nanny said. What more often
> happens is that, once the function exceeds the stipulated maximum, it
> gets split somewhat arbitrarily into a "master" function and several
> "part" functions, with each part having exactly one call site in the
> driver and exactly none elsewhere. Even if the partial functions have
> reasonable names (which they don't always), they're still tightly
> bound to the master, and end up still functioning as a single unit.
>
> Unless you can genuinely make that subfunction useful in some other
> context, there's not a lot of use splitting it into a function. You
> don't generally see those perfect "paragraphs" in real-world code.

With the additional problems that the sub-functions need a way of 
accessing the local and declared names of the 'master' function. That 
means creating an interface (possibly a custom one for each 
sub-function) so that the master's local variables can be shared.

Except that a sub-function can't directly write to the local variables 
that would be simply shared in the original monolithic function.

Besides, for a set of sub-functions that are only used by a master 
function F, they really belong as local functions in F. That makes it 
even bigger and more complex, although access to F's locals is simplified.

-- 
bartc



From marko at pacujo.net  Sun Apr 17 08:10:17 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 15:10:17 +0300
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8ff10001-1c49-4490-b873-018507243ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <877ffw5wjo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmp42FvAcgnqYEpKygG9=GkV0qw0MUygJ1UfV29jaCZkEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.98.1460891685.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8737qk5tcm.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 9:01 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> In fact, if you find yourself introducing coding "paragraphs" with
>> comments:
>>
>>     def f(...):
>>         # I'll start by doing this
>>         ...
>>         # segueing into the middle portion
>>         ...
>>         # and finish it off as follows
>>         ...
>>
>> you had better break those paragraphs off into separate functions. Just
>> turn your comments into function names.
>
> It's really easy to do this in toy examples, isn't it? But the real
> world is not so wonderful, as Alice's nanny said.

I do this in the real world, professionally. Been doing it for decades,
and it hasn't failed me so far. Exceptions exist, but they are that:
rare exceptions.

> What more often happens is that, once the function exceeds the
> stipulated maximum, it gets split somewhat arbitrarily into a "master"
> function and several "part" functions, with each part having exactly
> one call site in the driver and exactly none elsewhere. Even if the
> partial functions have reasonable names (which they don't always),
> they're still tightly bound to the master, and end up still
> functioning as a single unit.

And? That's a feature, not a bug. It makes you analyze your approach a
bit more. It makes you give names to things. It makes it more likely
that your solution really works.

And the main thing: whoever needs to come and maintain your code will
have an easier time understanding what your code is trying to
accomplish.

> Unless you can genuinely make that subfunction useful in some other
> context, there's not a lot of use splitting it into a function. You
> don't generally see those perfect "paragraphs" in real-world code.

No, that's Software Engineering 101: you split your solution into
subroutines regardless of whether those subroutines are needed in
multiple places.

(The main practical problem with the divide-and-conquer approach is the
fact that you need to drag the context around. Sometimes you have to
keep piling on function arguments, which spoil the visual advantages you
are trying to gain by partitioning your solution. One obvious solution
to the argument clutter is to carry the context in *the* object or *a*
special-purpose context object.)

The compactness requirement for the code discourages empty lines and
commenting. If find that, too, a feature rather than a bug. The code
should in general speak for itself. Well-chosen names and a compact,
elegant structure communicate the intent of the code better than
plain-English comments that will not stay current with the code anyway.


Marko


From irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl  Sun Apr 17 08:40:00 2016
From: irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 14:40:00 +0200
Subject: Introducing the secrets module
In-Reply-To: <5712f69d$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5712f69d$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <5713841c$0$5916$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

On 17-4-2016 4:36, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> And the documentation:
> 
> https://docs.python.org/3.6/library/secrets.html
> 
> 
> Comments requested.

I've read about the "How many bytes should tokens use?" consideration. It suggests that
to be secure, tokens need to have sufficient randomness. The default token length is
subject to change at any time to remain secure against brute-force.
However the API allows you to supply any token length, even one that is (a lot) shorter
than the default.
In view of the rationale for this new module ("Python's standard library makes it too
easy for developers to inadvertently make serious security errors") should it perhaps
not be allowed to use a value that is less than the default?

Hm, perhaps it should not; enforcing this could break code suddenly in the future when
the default is raised...

Irmen



From kliateni at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 09:12:05 2016
From: kliateni at gmail.com (Karim)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 15:12:05 +0200
Subject: Fraud
In-Reply-To: <5712e685$0$1597$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <444136AD-6A91-4BCE-B80F-6D1B5A8F4B65@yahoo.com>
 <mailman.66.1460841502.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <5712e685$0$1597$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <57138BA5.8010301@gmail.com>



On 17/04/2016 03:27, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 03:12 am, Mel Drosis wrote:
>
>> My phone my accounts my home network have all been affected because of
>> someone using coding from Python and Linux and GitHub and json. I don't
>> even know what this stuff is but how do I get rid of it all. It's ruined
>> my life. Sent from my iPhone
> Go to Russia.
>
> Find a corrupt Russian general.
>
> Purchase the biggest nuclear warhead you can afford, at least 20 megatons.
>
> Launch it into space and detonate it in near-Earth orbit.
>
> When the radiation hits the atmosphere, it will generate the mother of all
> electromagnetic pulses.
>
> Which will permanently fry all computer chips and most electronics all over
> the world, sending the entire planet back to pre-Industrial Revolution
> technology.
>
> (You may need to do it twice, once for each hemisphere.)
>
> Which is the only way to get rid of the scourge of "Python and Linux and
> GitHub and json" once and for all.
>
>
>
Steven you make me laugh very loud.

hahaha.



From gheskett at wdtv.com  Sun Apr 17 09:28:35 2016
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 09:28:35 -0400
Subject: Fraud
In-Reply-To: <57138BA5.8010301@gmail.com>
References: <444136AD-6A91-4BCE-B80F-6D1B5A8F4B65@yahoo.com>
 <5712e685$0$1597$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <57138BA5.8010301@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201604170928.35713.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Sunday 17 April 2016 09:12:05 Karim wrote:

> On 17/04/2016 03:27, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 03:12 am, Mel Drosis wrote:
> >> My phone my accounts my home network have all been affected because
> >> of someone using coding from Python and Linux and GitHub and json.
> >> I don't even know what this stuff is but how do I get rid of it
> >> all. It's ruined my life. Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > Go to Russia.
> >
> > Find a corrupt Russian general.
> >
> > Purchase the biggest nuclear warhead you can afford, at least 20
> > megatons.
> >
> > Launch it into space and detonate it in near-Earth orbit.
> >
> > When the radiation hits the atmosphere, it will generate the mother
> > of all electromagnetic pulses.
> >
> > Which will permanently fry all computer chips and most electronics
> > all over the world, sending the entire planet back to pre-Industrial
> > Revolution technology.
> >
> > (You may need to do it twice, once for each hemisphere.)
> >
> > Which is the only way to get rid of the scourge of "Python and Linux
> > and GitHub and json" once and for all.
>
> Steven you make me laugh very loud.
>
> hahaha.

I stick around this list, lurking I think its called, to see what happens 
next, even to learn something when you folks are serious, and I do so 
appreciate a sense of humor with teeth. ;-)  Good post, generated a BWG 
here.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 09:38:08 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 07:38:08 -0600
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <87potp5gr4.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85vb3huxjn.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <20160416165027.0fe70e5f@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <CAN8CLgn9YNZ1YE=AhZdx3vC6rkF9NVX306Yk1SB1DKDXWPMa_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.71.1460844965.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87potp5gr4.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnTuzhpCP6uZT2iCaLRqW-FGReAH+NnOcb0rYXnhmgKJw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 4:30 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>
> Java generics ruined a perfectly good language. I mean:
>
>     Map<AccountManager, List<Customer>> customersOfAccountManager =
>         new HashMap<AccountManagerImpl, LinkedList<CustomerImpl>>();
>
> where classic Java would have:
>
>     Map customersOfAccountManager = new HashMap();

The diamond operator in JDK 7 makes this a lot more tolerable, IMO:

    Map<AccountManager, List<Customer>> customersOfAccountManager =
        new HashMap<>();


From chforth at hccnet.nl  Sun Apr 17 10:35:44 2016
From: chforth at hccnet.nl (Coos Haak)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 16:35:44 +0200
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85vb3huxjn.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <20160416165027.0fe70e5f@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <CACL+1atx3hC7A7vB0XNNCw8QaZe-yBxzAtbzPs1MxZx43z5V0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160416203052.2598ad15@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <mailman.87.1460856877.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4winspmqbztx$.3syiofssbnnl.dlg@40tude.net>

Op Sat, 16 Apr 2016 20:30:52 -0500 schreef Tim Chase:

> On 2016-04-16 19:39, eryk sun wrote:
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
>>> I also do some editing/diffing within a cmd.exe window on Windows
>>> which is limited to 80 characters unless you do some hijinks in
>>> the settings to expand it.
>> 
>> Try `mode con cols=120 lines=30`.
> 
> Yeah, that will do it, as will going into the settings and changing
> it. But basically every other program on Windows, and every console
> on Linux/BSD/Mac will let me resize a terminal running while another
> program is running.  For a cmd.exe window, I have to quit, issue the
> `mode` command, restart my application, and return to where I was.
> 
> -tkc

No need to close. Right-click on statusbar and set properties.

groet Coos


From Radek1 at holych.org  Sun Apr 17 10:56:57 2016
From: Radek1 at holych.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Radek_Hol=C3=BD?=)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 16:56:57 +0200
Subject: HTTPServer and SSL
Message-ID: <CAPtibM5OMNAvxVN1WPdnGEG3HsXODKq0ZkKKEYxvooetCAhKBg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

some people recommend following implementation of a simple HTTP server
that supports SSL:


Handler = http.server.BaseHTTPRequestHandlerhttpd =
http.server.HTTPServer(("", 4443), Handler)
httpd.socket = ssl.wrap_socket(httpd.socket, server_side=True)
httpd.serve_forever()

I wonder whether this usage is *supported* or not. The documentation
is not explicit about whether the httpd.socket attribute can be safely
reassigned. Also there were some questions regarding a simple HTTPS
server on this list already and none of the answerers mentioned this
approach.

Also there used to be a HTTPSServer in the test suite of Python 2.7 in
2014 that did a similar thing but in the "get_request" method but it
isn't there anymore.

So, is there a *supported* way of combining http.server.HTTPServer and ssl?

Best regards
-- 

Radek


From memilanuk at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 12:27:38 2016
From: memilanuk at gmail.com (Monte Milanuk)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 09:27:38 -0700
Subject: how to setup for localhost:8000
In-Reply-To: <67abca1d-8ac5-4a9a-825d-3aa76d9ccf3f@googlegroups.com>
References: <5ea1e31b-09ba-4b6a-be8b-58886c5c5f81@googlegroups.com>
 <CA+y5TLbED=JjcPG4-qfn=7tH=Y=6PQa+MMpvh_8uNT2srh7dBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.112.1460658199.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <2e597a56-00ab-4370-b337-667f34eac56a@googlegroups.com>
 <a5cbb46c-8d7d-482f-a608-57ba48e2df40@googlegroups.com>
 <67abca1d-8ac5-4a9a-825d-3aa76d9ccf3f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nf0dhb$i4b$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2016-04-16 15:35, wrh8609 at gmail.com wrote:

>> When you type http://localhost:8000, do you see something in the
>> console after the line  "Serving HTTP on 0.0.0.0 port 8000 ..." ?
>>
>> If the server actually serves requests on port 8000 you should see
>> a log message such as
>>
>> 127.0.0.1 - - [15/Apr/2016 20:57:32] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 -
> Hi Pierre,
>
> When I type http://localhost:8000, I did not see anything in the
> console after the line "Serving HTTP on 0.0.0.0 port 8000 ... I
> believe the way I ran was not correct as shown below:
>> python -m http.server
> Serving HTTP on 0.0.0.0 port 8000 ...
>
> Also if I use internet Explorer, it shows HTTP 404 errors. Do you
> think the way I am doing of the localhost:8000 setting was not
> correct?
>

Do you have any anti-virus programs running?  Its possible they may be 
interfering with letting your python installation open a server on the 
local host at all, or with letting your browser access it, if it is running.

What I get in the console looks like this:

Windows PowerShell
Copyright (C) 2015 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

PS C:\Users\Monte Milanuk> python -m http.server
Serving HTTP on 0.0.0.0 port 8000 ...

...and then once I open a browser window to 'localhost:8000', I get the 
following in the console:

127.0.0.1 - - [17/Apr/2016 09:21:49] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 -

Which is the python http.server telling you that it responded to a 
request from 127.0.0.1, completion code (200), etc.  If you're not 
seeing that, and you're instead getting 404 codes in the browswer 
window, something on your machine is blocking it from seeing the server.

You might try '127.0.0.1:8000' instead of 'localhost:8000' in the 
browser window, or you might try specifying different interface or port 
numbers for the server when you start it.  It *should* 'just work' as 
is, with the basic 'python -m http.server' command, but obviously it 
isn't, for whatever reason.



From ranran at NOSPAM.it  Sun Apr 17 12:46:25 2016
From: ranran at NOSPAM.it (ranran)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 18:46:25 +0200
Subject: read datas from sensors and plotting
Message-ID: <nf0el0$181b$1@gioia.aioe.org>

I'm reading in python some values from some sensors and I write them in 
a csv file.
My problem now is to use this datas to plot a realtime graph for a 
example in a web server.
Is it possible to read in the same time the values, writing in the file 
and plot them in a webpage with python?


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Sun Apr 17 12:57:51 2016
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 17:57:51 +0100
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
Message-ID: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk>

There's been a bit of chatter lately about the moderation on the Python 
List (and, indirectly, comp.lang.python). The list moderators have 
suspended a couple of posters for a while and we've been discussing a 
little our policy towards non-subscribed posts.

First, a quick summary of the current settings of the list:

* Any post from someone who's not subscribed to the list is held for 
moderation

* Subscribers are also held for moderation until a moderator clears that 
flag (which we usually do on the first post, unless there's some doubt). 
This is basically to prevent canny spammers from signing up and then 
posting garbage.

* There are a few other rules which will cause posts to be held for 
moderation: unduly large posts, certain odd headers, large-scale 
cross-posting, etc.

* All attachments are stripped

Exactly how held posts are handled is down to each moderator: generally, 
though, it's quite obvious as most spam is very blatant. Occasionally, 
of course, we have a post which borders on (or is clearly) 
objectionable, and we have to decide whether to reject it at source or 
to let it through and let the community deal.

Our approach to non-subscribed posts has been to let them through if 
they're clearly genuine, ie non-spam. However, as has been pointed out 
recently, this can quite easily result in useful advice falling on deaf 
ears. The OP isn't subscribed to the list, may not be reading it via 
gmane/ggroups etc. and may simply expect people to cc them directly. The 
list subscribers have no way of knowing whether someone's subscribed or 
not, so they reply to the List. And, of course, some people object to 
cc-ing individuals as well as the List.

Our new approach (from as soon as we set it up) will be to reject 
unsubscribed posts with a friendly message indicating how to subscribe. 
The only exception we expect to make is if we spot a regular subscriber 
who's come in on a different address for some reason (eg posting from a 
phone).

The main effect, we hope, will be that people asking questions actually 
see the answers. Of course, as we've seen in the past, some people will 
be confounded by the way in which a mailing list works (ie that they see 
all the chatter going through not just the answers to their question). 
But I don't see there's very much we can do about that except to help 
them to understand how it works.

In general, please feel free to feed back to the list owners. Like 
everyone around here, we're all volunteers so we can't guarantee to 
respond in any particular timeframe, but we'll try.

TJG


From larry.martell at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 13:00:06 2016
From: larry.martell at gmail.com (Larry Martell)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 13:00:06 -0400
Subject: read datas from sensors and plotting
In-Reply-To: <nf0el0$181b$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <nf0el0$181b$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <CACwCsY5ZjBmSUJayt6=YbBoOj6Fp0O8_G6Wq5HbYK2ajVGuyPg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sunday, April 17, 2016, ranran <ranran at nospam.it> wrote:

> I'm reading in python some values from some sensors and I write them in a
> csv file.
> My problem now is to use this datas to plot a realtime graph for a example
> in a web server.
> Is it possible to read in the same time the values, writing in the file
> and plot them in a webpage with python?
>

Check out plotly

https://plot.ly/python/


From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 13:04:42 2016
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 13:04:42 -0400
Subject: read datas from sensors and plotting
In-Reply-To: <CACwCsY5ZjBmSUJayt6=YbBoOj6Fp0O8_G6Wq5HbYK2ajVGuyPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <nf0el0$181b$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <CACwCsY5ZjBmSUJayt6=YbBoOj6Fp0O8_G6Wq5HbYK2ajVGuyPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+wniA1i5bqr2j3DFtBY5DTH=HU0Ca8R7se2ekZm+7_7Dg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Larry Martell <larry.martell at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, April 17, 2016, ranran <ranran at nospam.it> wrote:
>
>> I'm reading in python some values from some sensors and I write them in a
>> csv file.
>> My problem now is to use this datas to plot a realtime graph for a example
>> in a web server.
>> Is it possible to read in the same time the values, writing in the file
>> and plot them in a webpage with python?
>>
>
> Check out plotly
>
> https://plot.ly/python/
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Matplotlib and pygals are two others.

-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays


From pierre.quentel at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 13:11:24 2016
From: pierre.quentel at gmail.com (Pierre Quentel)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 10:11:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to setup for localhost:8000
In-Reply-To: <67abca1d-8ac5-4a9a-825d-3aa76d9ccf3f@googlegroups.com>
References: <5ea1e31b-09ba-4b6a-be8b-58886c5c5f81@googlegroups.com>
 <CA+y5TLbED=JjcPG4-qfn=7tH=Y=6PQa+MMpvh_8uNT2srh7dBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.112.1460658199.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <2e597a56-00ab-4370-b337-667f34eac56a@googlegroups.com>
 <a5cbb46c-8d7d-482f-a608-57ba48e2df40@googlegroups.com>
 <67abca1d-8ac5-4a9a-825d-3aa76d9ccf3f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <60e461a5-95ff-49c0-9beb-7bc595c057e1@googlegroups.com>


> > 127.0.0.1 - - [15/Apr/2016 20:57:32] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 -
>  Hi Pierre,
> 
> When I type http://localhost:8000, I did not see anything in the console after the line "Serving HTTP on 0.0.0.0 port 8000 ... I believe the way I ran was not correct as shown below:
> > python -m http.server 
> Serving HTTP on 0.0.0.0 port 8000 ...
> 
> Also if I use internet Explorer, it shows HTTP 404 errors.
> Do you think the way I am doing of the localhost:8000 setting was not correct?
> 
> Thanks,
> Wen-Ruey

If you're not seeing anything there, it is sure that the Python server doesn't serve requests on port 8000. But if you're seeing a blank screen or a 404 error instead of a message saying that a connection couldn't be set up, it is likely that another HTTP server is running on your machine on port 8000.

Could you try to start the server on another port, eg "python -m http.server 8085" and see what happens in the browser with "http://127.0.0.1:8085" ?


From blueridiculous at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 13:17:56 2016
From: blueridiculous at gmail.com (BlueRidiculous)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 10:17:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: error with tkinter, help
In-Reply-To: <mailman.90.1460867418.6324.python-list@python.org>
References: <47977d70-6208-4e68-aca3-e1f63aacfac7@googlegroups.com>
 <nev3g2$a0m$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.90.1460867418.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a72a152a-01bc-4128-900d-3e01ed51b1a0@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 16, 2016 at 9:30:39 PM UTC-7, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 4/16/2016 9:31 PM, blueridiculous at gmail.com wrote:
> > So I was reading https://wiki.python.org/moin/TkInter for help.
>  > I got to step 3 under "Checking your Tkinter support."
>  > Nothing happens when I do steps 1 or 2, and when I do step 3,
>  > I get this error:
> >
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<string>", line 301, in runcode
> >   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in <module>
> >   File "C:\Python34\lib\tkinter\__init__.py", line 3882, in _test
> >     root = Tk()
> >   File "C:\Python34\lib\tkinter\__init__.py", line 1856, in __init__
> >     self.tk = _tkinter.create(screenName, baseName, className, interactive, wantobjects, useTk, sync, use)
> > _tkinter.TclError: Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following directories:
> >     C:/Python34/lib/tcl8.6 C:/lib/tcl8.6 C:/lib/tcl8.6 C:/library C:/library C:/tcl8.6.1/library C:/tcl8.6.1/library
> >
> > This probably means that Tcl wasn't installed properly.
> > "
> 
> The directory list is obsolete.  You should have C:/Python34/tcl
> How did you install Python?  The Windows PSF installer from python.org 
> will create this directory unless you uncheck the box to include tcl/tk.
> 
> -- 
> Terry Jan Reedy

What is a PSF installer? Anyway, I installed the "Windows x86 MSI installer" from https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-344/ Is that correct?


From best_lay at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 17 13:21:20 2016
From: best_lay at yahoo.com (Wildman)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 12:21:20 -0500
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.105.1460912283.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nv2dnTiHKYKNW47KnZ2dnUU7-RudnZ2d@giganews.com>

On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 17:57:51 +0100, Tim Golden wrote:

> There's been a bit of chatter lately about the moderation on the Python 
> List (and, indirectly, comp.lang.python). The list moderators have 
> suspended a couple of posters for a while and we've been discussing a 
> little our policy towards non-subscribed posts.
> 
> First, a quick summary of the current settings of the list:
> 
> * Any post from someone who's not subscribed to the list is held for 
> moderation
> 
> * Subscribers are also held for moderation until a moderator clears that 
> flag (which we usually do on the first post, unless there's some doubt). 
> This is basically to prevent canny spammers from signing up and then 
> posting garbage.
> 
> * There are a few other rules which will cause posts to be held for 
> moderation: unduly large posts, certain odd headers, large-scale 
> cross-posting, etc.
> 
> * All attachments are stripped
> 
> Exactly how held posts are handled is down to each moderator: generally, 
> though, it's quite obvious as most spam is very blatant. Occasionally, 
> of course, we have a post which borders on (or is clearly) 
> objectionable, and we have to decide whether to reject it at source or 
> to let it through and let the community deal.
> 
> Our approach to non-subscribed posts has been to let them through if 
> they're clearly genuine, ie non-spam. However, as has been pointed out 
> recently, this can quite easily result in useful advice falling on deaf 
> ears. The OP isn't subscribed to the list, may not be reading it via 
> gmane/ggroups etc. and may simply expect people to cc them directly. The 
> list subscribers have no way of knowing whether someone's subscribed or 
> not, so they reply to the List. And, of course, some people object to 
> cc-ing individuals as well as the List.
> 
> Our new approach (from as soon as we set it up) will be to reject 
> unsubscribed posts with a friendly message indicating how to subscribe. 
> The only exception we expect to make is if we spot a regular subscriber 
> who's come in on a different address for some reason (eg posting from a 
> phone).
> 
> The main effect, we hope, will be that people asking questions actually 
> see the answers. Of course, as we've seen in the past, some people will 
> be confounded by the way in which a mailing list works (ie that they see 
> all the chatter going through not just the answers to their question). 
> But I don't see there's very much we can do about that except to help 
> them to understand how it works.
> 
> In general, please feel free to feed back to the list owners. Like 
> everyone around here, we're all volunteers so we can't guarantee to 
> respond in any particular timeframe, but we'll try.
> 
> TJG

How will this change affect posts to comp.lang.python?

-- 
<Wildman> GNU/Linux user #557453


From blueridiculous at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 13:24:17 2016
From: blueridiculous at gmail.com (BlueRidiculous)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 10:24:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: error with tkinter, help
In-Reply-To: <a72a152a-01bc-4128-900d-3e01ed51b1a0@googlegroups.com>
References: <47977d70-6208-4e68-aca3-e1f63aacfac7@googlegroups.com>
 <nev3g2$a0m$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.90.1460867418.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <a72a152a-01bc-4128-900d-3e01ed51b1a0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9cd33690-bb18-446b-9151-aedfd32693ca@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 17, 2016 at 10:18:09 AM UTC-7, BlueRidiculous wrote:
> On Saturday, April 16, 2016 at 9:30:39 PM UTC-7, Terry Reedy wrote:
> > On 4/16/2016 9:31 PM, blueridiculous at gmail.com wrote:
> > > So I was reading https://wiki.python.org/moin/TkInter for help.
> >  > I got to step 3 under "Checking your Tkinter support."
> >  > Nothing happens when I do steps 1 or 2, and when I do step 3,
> >  > I get this error:
> > >
> > > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > >   File "<string>", line 301, in runcode
> > >   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in <module>
> > >   File "C:\Python34\lib\tkinter\__init__.py", line 3882, in _test
> > >     root = Tk()
> > >   File "C:\Python34\lib\tkinter\__init__.py", line 1856, in __init__
> > >     self.tk = _tkinter.create(screenName, baseName, className, interactive, wantobjects, useTk, sync, use)
> > > _tkinter.TclError: Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following directories:
> > >     C:/Python34/lib/tcl8.6 C:/lib/tcl8.6 C:/lib/tcl8.6 C:/library C:/library C:/tcl8.6.1/library C:/tcl8.6.1/library
> > >
> > > This probably means that Tcl wasn't installed properly.
> > > "
> > 
> > The directory list is obsolete.  You should have C:/Python34/tcl
> > How did you install Python?  The Windows PSF installer from python.org 
> > will create this directory unless you uncheck the box to include tcl/tk.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Terry Jan Reedy
> 
> What is a PSF installer? Anyway, I installed the "Windows x86 MSI installer" from https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-344/ Is that correct?

Actually nevermind, I uninstalled and reinstalled Python and it works now. I remember I uninstalled and reinstalled before, and it worked, then stopped working, so I'm not sure how permanent this fix will be. Stay tuned for updates. Thanks again.


From sjeik_appie at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 17 13:35:45 2016
From: sjeik_appie at hotmail.com (Albert-Jan Roskam)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 17:35:45 +0000
Subject: read datas from sensors and plotting
In-Reply-To: <nf0el0$181b$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <nf0el0$181b$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <DUB123-W36A33C2C45AF0DE9CD9C2B836A0@phx.gbl>



> From: ranran at NOSPAM.it
> Subject: read datas from sensors and plotting
> Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 18:46:25 +0200
> To: python-list at python.org
> 
> I'm reading in python some values from some sensors and I write them in 
> a csv file.
> My problem now is to use this datas to plot a realtime graph for a 
> example in a web server.
> Is it possible to read in the same time the values, writing in the file 
> and plot them in a webpage with python?


tail -F data.log | python myprogram.py
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1712276/tail-read-a-growing-dynamic-file-and-extract-two-columns-and-then-print-a-graphhttp://code.activestate.com/recipes/577968-log-watcher-tail-f-log/ 		 	   		  

From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Apr 17 14:11:56 2016
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 13:11:56 -0500
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <4winspmqbztx$.3syiofssbnnl.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85vb3huxjn.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <20160416165027.0fe70e5f@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <CACL+1atx3hC7A7vB0XNNCw8QaZe-yBxzAtbzPs1MxZx43z5V0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160416203052.2598ad15@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <mailman.87.1460856877.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <4winspmqbztx$.3syiofssbnnl.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <20160417131156.6907840c@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2016-04-17 16:35, Coos Haak wrote:
> Op Sat, 16 Apr 2016 20:30:52 -0500 schreef Tim Chase:
> >> Try `mode con cols=120 lines=30`.
> > 
> > Yeah, that will do it, as will going into the settings and
> > changing it. But basically every other program on Windows, and
> > every console on Linux/BSD/Mac will let me resize a terminal
> > running while another program is running.  For a cmd.exe window,
> > I have to quit, issue the `mode` command, restart my application,
> > and return to where I was.
> 
> No need to close. Right-click on statusbar and set properties.

By "close", I meant "close the application running within the cmd.exe
window" rather than "close the cmd.exe window".

In most *nix programs, they understand the SIGWINCH (window-size
changed) signal and respond accordingly.  In the Win32 world, it was
pretty fixed in size, so most terminal programs don't readily
accommodate changed size while they're running.  So as Eryk Sun
mentions, the program has to jump through hoops to run "mode" in a
subprocess to change the terminal size, or use
GetConsoleScreenBufferInfoEx/SetConsoleScreenBufferInfoEx or other
such mechanisms.

It's not that it *can't* be done, it's just done in an *inconvenient*
way (if done at all).

-tkc





From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 15:08:39 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 05:08:39 +1000
Subject: error with tkinter, help
In-Reply-To: <a72a152a-01bc-4128-900d-3e01ed51b1a0@googlegroups.com>
References: <47977d70-6208-4e68-aca3-e1f63aacfac7@googlegroups.com>
 <nev3g2$a0m$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.90.1460867418.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <a72a152a-01bc-4128-900d-3e01ed51b1a0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqZjX63SeU44-GVt0P6vRfeKdhvuoc-Nza4akfXsvgXZg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 3:17 AM, BlueRidiculous
<blueridiculous at gmail.com> wrote:
>> How did you install Python?  The Windows PSF installer from python.org
>> will create this directory unless you uncheck the box to include tcl/tk.
>>
>> --
>> Terry Jan Reedy
>
> What is a PSF installer? Anyway, I installed the "Windows x86 MSI installer" from https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-344/ Is that correct?

Yep, that answers the question! Thanks. For the TLDR version, skip to
the next email now. If you're curious, this is what Terry meant by
"PSF installer".

Python is available from a number of places. The most simple and
straight-forward installers come direct from the Python Software
Foundation, and are downloaded from python.org, which is what you've
done. You can also get prepackaged distributions from Enthought,
ActiveState, Anaconda, and other redistributors. They may charge money
for what they give you (this is legal, even with free software like
the Python interpreter), and they can promise things that the PSF
doesn't, such as support for old/obscure operating systems, guaranteed
response times on support requests, or pre-included (and
compatibility-guaranteed) third-party libraries.

What's significant here is that your problem is with the *installer*,
not with the language itself. When an organization repackages Python
in some way, they may replace the installer with something that puts
things in different places, or has different default options. It's not
very helpful for us to say "Rerun the installer, go to this point, and
tick this box" if you're actually using (say) Anaconda's installer and
it all looks different! So Terry was basically clarifying that he was
talking about the vanilla installer that you can get off python.org,
as opposed to any of the others.

Hope that helps!

ChrisA


From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Sun Apr 17 15:34:05 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 12:34:05 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
Message-ID: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>

Greetings,

I'm currently building a chess engine to learn the finer details of 
Python. When I learned all flavors of Java in community college a decade 
ago, we had to sanity check the hell out of the input values for every 
function and wrote a lot of redundant code in addition to the 
getters/setters code.

Here's the input sanity checking I got for a generator function to 
return a set of chess pieces for a specified color and position.


def generate_set(color, positions):

     if color not in [VARS['COLOR_BLACK'], VARS['COLOR_WHITE']]:
         raise Exception("Require \'{}\' or \'{}\' for input value, got 
\'{}\' instead.".format(VARS['COLOR_BLACK'], VARS['COLOR_WHITE'], color))

     if len(positions) != 16:
         raise Exception("Require 16 positions for input value, got {} 
instead.".format(len(positions)))


The two sanity checks are fairly straight forward. Color input has to 
match the color constant strings. Positions input has to have 16 items.

I *could* sanity check the positions input to determine if it had a list 
of 16 valid coordinates. The reason I don't is because the code that 
calls this function builds the coordinates from constants with valid 
coordinates. However, if I was doing this in my Java classes, one of my 
instructors rap me on the knuckles for not sanity checking to nth degree.

How much sanity checking is too much in Python?

Thank you,

Chris R




From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 15:45:01 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 05:45:01 +1000
Subject: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light:
 PEP 8 updated)
In-Reply-To: <85potpuwwt.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmpxiYh=yKosufJvEvm5sOqeSTbgBHWCY4jFq-gmDeTa=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85potpuwwt.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoh8u12A-so5D+aD5Z4cqkBdw2Nxn0LFC4O-u118dbXLQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 6:21 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Maybe we need a blog post "Falsehoods Programmers Believe About PEP
>> 8", along the lines of the ones about time and names.
>
> Great suggestion. (Do you have a blog on which you could post an article
> like this?)

An initial list has been posted here:

http://rosuav.blogspot.com/2016/04/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about.html

Additional contributions are still welcome.

ChrisA


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Sun Apr 17 15:50:02 2016
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 20:50:02 +0100
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
In-Reply-To: <nv2dnTiHKYKNW47KnZ2dnUU7-RudnZ2d@giganews.com>
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.105.1460912283.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <nv2dnTiHKYKNW47KnZ2dnUU7-RudnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <5713E8EA.1080801@timgolden.me.uk>

On 17/04/2016 18:21, Wildman via Python-list wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 17:57:51 +0100, Tim Golden wrote:

[... snip my explanation of new moderation for non-subscribers ...]

> How will this change affect posts to comp.lang.python?
>

Not at all, in the sense that the moderation doesn't apply to 
comp.lang.python, except insofar as posts which are sent to the list and 
which we reject obviously won't make it to comp.lang.python either.

TJG


From eryksun at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 15:52:16 2016
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 14:52:16 -0500
Subject: No subject
In-Reply-To: <DUB408-EAS366D1060CD94D347C3F589DA96A0@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB408-EAS366D1060CD94D347C3F589DA96A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CACL+1asVgBBo547qw3Tqi55jNVq7Ru_D53yipz0TcMEh-YuRwQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 2:27 AM, B N <becon12 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I found that when the ?black? screen comes on, I am unable to read/see
> any characters even if I turn up the brightness of the screen.

Do you mean the console, i.e. the window used by the command prompt
(cmd.exe)? For a novice, you'll probably be better off using Python
IDLE. It should be in the start menu under "Python 3.5". Or just type
"idle" to search for it.

If you want to continue using the console, you can modify the default
text and background colors for the current application. Click on the
system menu in the upper left-hand corner of the window and choose
"Properties". On the "Colors" tab change the color of the screen text
and background. On the "Font" tab I recommend selecting a TrueType
font such as Consolas.

To change the default settings, select "Defaults" instead of
"Properties". You can also modify per-shortcut settings by
right-clicking a shortcut and selecting "Properties". The console
applies saved settings starting with the defaults, then the
application settings, and then the shortcut settings.

cmd also has a built-in "color" command to modify the text and
background colors in a command prompt. Enter "color /?" to get a list
of the 16 supported colors, which are numbered 0-F. For example,
"color 0F" uses bright white (F) text on a black (0) background.

> Also I have not ben ale to save it on C/programmes/files

You shouldn't be saving files to system directories. Save your scripts
in your personal folder.


From ranran at NOSPAM.it  Sun Apr 17 16:21:38 2016
From: ranran at NOSPAM.it (ranran)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 22:21:38 +0200
Subject: read datas from sensors and plotting
References: <nf0el0$181b$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <CACwCsY5ZjBmSUJayt6=YbBoOj6Fp0O8_G6Wq5HbYK2ajVGuyPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.106.1460912409.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nf0r8g$1ugf$1@gioia.aioe.org>


> Check out plotly
>
> https://plot.ly/python/
>
nice!
but it's no completely free...for example I should plot 4 chart of 
temperatures in the same time. I think I can plot only 1 chart.
Anyway I need to be connected to internet instead sometimes I want to 
show it only in my webserver.


From eryksun at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 16:24:00 2016
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 15:24:00 -0500
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <7fd7hbh28cmcusb4aqr8oicm04u146j9a9@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85vb3huxjn.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <20160416165027.0fe70e5f@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <CACL+1atx3hC7A7vB0XNNCw8QaZe-yBxzAtbzPs1MxZx43z5V0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160416203052.2598ad15@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <1460858341.2377173.580944673.0F0ECA86@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <7fd7hbh28cmcusb4aqr8oicm04u146j9a9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1auKtLTFHAtOh1UyJd=LU0B0Ooo_-UOO9vYnJTd=QZ8O5w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber
<wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 21:59:01 -0400, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com>
> declaimed the following:
>>
>>I heard Windows 10 is going to finally fix this, anyway.
>
> Probably by removing the old CLI window completely and making everyone
> learn PowerShell ISE

PowerShell ISE doesn't support interactive console applications. It
runs console apps with a hidden console (conhost.exe) and sets the
StandardOutput and StandardError to pipes. It leaves StandardInput set
to the console input handle. If you run python.exe in this
environment, you can use ctypes to show the console. Then enter
commands in the console, and get the output in ISE. Or rebind
sys.stdout and sys.stderr to \\.\CONOUT$ handles and forget about ISE,
which is really only meant for developing PowerShell scripts.

Microsoft won't abandon existing console programs, such as python.exe.
The console system was fairly stagnant between NT 4 and Vista. In
Windows 7, they changed how it interacts with a Windows session, by
moving the server out of csrss.exe to multiple conhost.exe instances.
In Windows 8, they reimplemented the API to use a kernel device
driver, condrv.sys. For Windows 10, they've focused on improving the
user interface:

https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/2014/10/07/
          console-improvements-in-the-windows-10-technical-preview

There's a new blog dedicated to Windows command-line tools, which
should be the place to look for announcements about the console
subsystem and the new Linux command-line environment that depends on
the console:

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline


From torriem at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 16:41:28 2016
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 14:41:28 -0600
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <7fd7hbh28cmcusb4aqr8oicm04u146j9a9@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85vb3huxjn.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <20160416165027.0fe70e5f@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <CACL+1atx3hC7A7vB0XNNCw8QaZe-yBxzAtbzPs1MxZx43z5V0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160416203052.2598ad15@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <1460858341.2377173.580944673.0F0ECA86@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <7fd7hbh28cmcusb4aqr8oicm04u146j9a9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5713F4F8.2080307@gmail.com>

On 04/17/2016 10:13 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 21:59:01 -0400, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com>
> declaimed the following:
> 
>>
>> I heard Windows 10 is going to finally fix this, anyway.
> 
> 	Probably by removing the old CLI window completely and making everyone
> learn PowerShell ISE

Or a Linux ELF bash binary running on the new Linux subsystem for
Windows. :)





From michael.selik at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 17:46:14 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 21:46:14 +0000
Subject: Dynamic inputs
In-Reply-To: <a399a174-b66a-49f2-8600-3884ecb23dfd@googlegroups.com>
References: <901a5b60-25b3-4e1c-9178-755bf668a5c5@googlegroups.com>
 <CAGgTfkNnEk2TCKBgjcLTL2jjkrsii2qNmezQiKBpPKZs++YWbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.46.1460799085.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <a399a174-b66a-49f2-8600-3884ecb23dfd@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkMq4w2y2AjE1_neftbEbKcvPsd7XUp5=cmL-kbDxKo83w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016, 7:01 AM durgadevi1 <
srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, April 16, 2016 at 5:31:39 PM UTC+8, Michael Selik wrote:
> > On Sat, Apr 16, 2016, 9:41 AM durgadevi1 <
> > srirajarajeswaridevikrupa at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > what does dynamic inputs mean and how is it implemented in python
> > > programming?
> > >
> >
> > In what context did you hear or read the phrase "dynamic inputs"?
> >
> > >
>
> Oh I read it in my assignment manual. The sentence is "Use dynamic inputs
> to  XOR the binary file. " Thanks for your replies :)
>

It seems the assignment wants you to ask a user for input. What input
source would you like to use?

>


From timothy.c.delaney at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 18:02:45 2016
From: timothy.c.delaney at gmail.com (Tim Delaney)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 08:02:45 +1000
Subject: [OT] Java generics (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated)
Message-ID: <CAN8CLg=_5oBp5ehR_NgfjQcXuM5cWajAVdKT7BytKJ93r13L0Q@mail.gmail.com>

On 17 April 2016 at 23:38, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:


> > Java generics ruined a perfectly good language. I mean:
>
> The diamond operator in JDK 7 makes this a lot more tolerable, IMO:
>
>     Map<AccountManager, List<Customer>> customersOfAccountManager =
>         new HashMap<>();
>

To some extent - you can't use the diamond operator when creating an
anonymous subclass, and you often need to explicitly specify the types for
generic methods. The inference engine is fairly limited.

I wouldn't say generics ruined Java - they made it better in some ways (for
a primarily statically-typed language) but worse in others (esp. that
they're implemented by erasure). I also wouldn't describe Java as a
"perfectly good language" - it is at best a compromise language that just
happened to be heavily promoted and accepted at the right time.

Python is *much* closer to my idea of a perfectly good language.

Tim Delaney


From matt.ruffalo at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 18:08:07 2016
From: matt.ruffalo at gmail.com (Matt Ruffalo)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 18:08:07 -0400
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
In-Reply-To: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk>
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk>
Message-ID: <57140947.3050902@gmail.com>

Hi-

That seems like a reasonable approach, though I think there *really*
needs to be an option along the lines of "subscribed to the list for the
purposes of moderation, but not receiving list messages via email". I
think I did this with the Git mailing list in the past, and it was quite
useful. I prefer to read the mailing list over NNTP through Thunderbird
-- if I have to decide between receiving every mailing list message via
email, or not sending messages to the list, I'll probably decide to not
send anything to the list at all.

This is one of the reasons I'm not very active on this mailing list;
it's hard to effectively participate in a conversation when I know it
might be several hours or half a day before my message appears, and a
discussion will likely have changed enough in that time that a late
message may not be very useful.

MMR...

On 2016-04-17 12:57, Tim Golden wrote:
> There's been a bit of chatter lately about the moderation on the
> Python List (and, indirectly, comp.lang.python). The list moderators
> have suspended a couple of posters for a while and we've been
> discussing a little our policy towards non-subscribed posts.
>
> First, a quick summary of the current settings of the list:
>
> * Any post from someone who's not subscribed to the list is held for
> moderation
>
> * Subscribers are also held for moderation until a moderator clears
> that flag (which we usually do on the first post, unless there's some
> doubt). This is basically to prevent canny spammers from signing up
> and then posting garbage.
>
> * There are a few other rules which will cause posts to be held for
> moderation: unduly large posts, certain odd headers, large-scale
> cross-posting, etc.
>
> * All attachments are stripped
>
> Exactly how held posts are handled is down to each moderator:
> generally, though, it's quite obvious as most spam is very blatant.
> Occasionally, of course, we have a post which borders on (or is
> clearly) objectionable, and we have to decide whether to reject it at
> source or to let it through and let the community deal.
>
> Our approach to non-subscribed posts has been to let them through if
> they're clearly genuine, ie non-spam. However, as has been pointed out
> recently, this can quite easily result in useful advice falling on
> deaf ears. The OP isn't subscribed to the list, may not be reading it
> via gmane/ggroups etc. and may simply expect people to cc them
> directly. The list subscribers have no way of knowing whether
> someone's subscribed or not, so they reply to the List. And, of
> course, some people object to cc-ing individuals as well as the List.
>
> Our new approach (from as soon as we set it up) will be to reject
> unsubscribed posts with a friendly message indicating how to
> subscribe. The only exception we expect to make is if we spot a
> regular subscriber who's come in on a different address for some
> reason (eg posting from a phone).
>
> The main effect, we hope, will be that people asking questions
> actually see the answers. Of course, as we've seen in the past, some
> people will be confounded by the way in which a mailing list works (ie
> that they see all the chatter going through not just the answers to
> their question). But I don't see there's very much we can do about
> that except to help them to understand how it works.
>
> In general, please feel free to feed back to the list owners. Like
> everyone around here, we're all volunteers so we can't guarantee to
> respond in any particular timeframe, but we'll try.
>
> TJG



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Apr 17 18:13:58 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 08:13:58 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8ff10001-1c49-4490-b873-018507243ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <877ffw5wjo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmp42FvAcgnqYEpKygG9=GkV0qw0MUygJ1UfV29jaCZkEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.98.1460891685.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <8737qk5tcm.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <85zisrubmh.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> writes:

> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
>
> > What more often happens is that, once the function exceeds the
> > stipulated maximum, it gets split somewhat arbitrarily into a
> > "master" function and several "part" functions, with each part
> > having exactly one call site in the driver and exactly none
> > elsewhere. Even if the partial functions have reasonable names
> > (which they don't always), they're still tightly bound to the
> > master, and end up still functioning as a single unit.
>
> And? That's a feature, not a bug. It makes you analyze your approach a
> bit more. It makes you give names to things. It makes it more likely
> that your solution really works.

Yes. It also counters the tendency to let distant areas of code in a
function become too tightly dependent.

By identifying large functions with inherent ?do this then do that then
do the other then ?? structure as a problem in itself, the writer must
split it into small functions and think *explicitly* about how those
parts interact.

The interface between those parts is already part of the code design,
and if they're tightly coupled in a way difficult to describe simply, it
is a *bad* design already. A large function just obscures that, it
doesn't make it better.

Encouraging the split of large functions into small ones makes that
design explicit, and exposes places wehre the coupling is too complex or
too tight. The code writer is then explicitly and routinely thinking
about how best to narrow the coupling between the parts.

> > Unless you can genuinely make that subfunction useful in some other
> > context, there's not a lot of use splitting it into a function. You
> > don't generally see those perfect "paragraphs" in real-world code.

The point of splitting functions is not re-use (though that is a useful
side effect when it happens). The point is, in the face of trends that
are all toward code becoming difficult to understand and tangled, to
make the design as clear and simple and obviously correct as feasible.

-- 
 \     ?Welchen Teil von ?Gestalt? verstehen Sie nicht?  [What part of |
  `\                ?gestalt? don't you understand?]? ?Karsten M. Self |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From michael.selik at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 18:18:47 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 22:18:47 +0000
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkOR8e501zFfRXLgv3imVnbL7nBqKNGhc95rJVBPPwEYeg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016, 4:35 PM Christopher Reimer <
christopher_reimer at icloud.com> wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> I'm currently building a chess engine to learn the finer details of
> Python. When I learned all flavors of Java in community college a decade
> ago, we had to sanity check the hell out of the input values for every
> function and wrote a lot of redundant code in addition to the
> getters/setters code.
>
> Here's the input sanity checking I got for a generator function to
> return a set of chess pieces for a specified color and position.
>
>
> def generate_set(color, positions):
>
>      if color not in [VARS['COLOR_BLACK'], VARS['COLOR_WHITE']]:
>          raise Exception("Require \'{}\' or \'{}\' for input value, got
> \'{}\' instead.".format(VARS['COLOR_BLACK'], VARS['COLOR_WHITE'], color))
>
>      if len(positions) != 16:
>          raise Exception("Require 16 positions for input value, got {}
> instead.".format(len(positions)))
>
>
> The two sanity checks are fairly straight forward. Color input has to
> match the color constant strings. Positions input has to have 16 items.
>
> I *could* sanity check the positions input to determine if it had a list
> of 16 valid coordinates. The reason I don't is because the code that
> calls this function builds the coordinates from constants with valid
> coordinates. However, if I was doing this in my Java classes, one of my
> instructors rap me on the knuckles for not sanity checking to nth degree.
>
> How much sanity checking is too much in Python?
>

I'd rather turn the question around: how much sanity checking is necessary
or useful? You'll find the answer is "surprisingly little" compared to your
experience in Java. For example, you don't need to explicitly check whether
the color is present in your dictionary, because it'll give you a KeyError
if you look up a bad key.

Why does the len of positions need to be 16?

>


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Sun Apr 17 19:29:04 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 16:29:04 -0700
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
In-Reply-To: <57140947.3050902@gmail.com>
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk> <57140947.3050902@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57141C40.8060007@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/17/2016 03:08 PM, Matt Ruffalo wrote:

> That seems like a reasonable approach, though I think there *really*
> needs to be an option along the lines of "subscribed to the list for the
> purposes of moderation, but not receiving list messages via email".

I don't understand what you are saying.

If you are not receiving emails, how are you reading the list?  A news 
reader?

If you are subscribed for moderation, how does that help with the lag 
time when you do post?

--
~Ethan~


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 19:30:56 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:30:56 +1000
Subject: [OT] Java generics (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated)
In-Reply-To: <CAN8CLg=_5oBp5ehR_NgfjQcXuM5cWajAVdKT7BytKJ93r13L0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN8CLg=_5oBp5ehR_NgfjQcXuM5cWajAVdKT7BytKJ93r13L0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrvp0qzwnDhA8oLEwJfTW-JqUvWz8gS_4AYcaR91jLiqw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Tim Delaney
<timothy.c.delaney at gmail.com> wrote:
> I also wouldn't describe Java as a
> "perfectly good language" - it is at best a compromise language that just
> happened to be heavily promoted and accepted at the right time.
>
> Python is *much* closer to my idea of a perfectly good language.

"Java" was originally four related, but separate, concepts: a source
language, a bytecode, a sandboxing system, and one other that I can't
now remember. The published bytecode was way ahead of its day, and
coupled with the sandbox, it made Java into the one obvious language
for web browser applets (until the rise of Flash, and then the
increase in power of JavaScript etc).

If the source language and bytecode+sandbox had been more
disconnected, and the latter more standardized, Java might have been a
hugely popular language because of one important role (web browser
applets) that can also be used elsewhere. Instead, it made a promise
of "write once, run everywhere" that didn't really hold up (the
Australian Taxation Office let you file corporate taxes either on
paper or using their Java application - and it didn't run on OS/2
Java) and lost a ton of potential marketshare. Imagine how the world
would be today, if languages like NetRexx had had a chance to shine -
completely different source code language, compiling to the same Java
bytecode.

Jython might have been the one most popular language for applet development...

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 19:35:40 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:35:40 +1000
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
In-Reply-To: <57140947.3050902@gmail.com>
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk>
	<57140947.3050902@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr=By=4x26wKSS9j=rFoXE7fstYnSUHEN+XXDWLakjF1A@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 8:08 AM, Matt Ruffalo <matt.ruffalo at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi-
>
> That seems like a reasonable approach, though I think there *really*
> needs to be an option along the lines of "subscribed to the list for the
> purposes of moderation, but not receiving list messages via email". I
> think I did this with the Git mailing list in the past, and it was quite
> useful. I prefer to read the mailing list over NNTP through Thunderbird
> -- if I have to decide between receiving every mailing list message via
> email, or not sending messages to the list, I'll probably decide to not
> send anything to the list at all.

That shouldn't be difficult. You should be able to subscribe, and then
go to the Mailman page and change your delivery options.

https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

"""
Mail delivery

Set this option to Enabled to receive messages posted to this mailing
list. Set it to Disabled if you want to stay subscribed, but don't
want mail delivered to you for a while (e.g. you're going on
vacation). If you disable mail delivery, don't forget to re-enable it
when you come back; it will not be automatically re-enabled.
"""

It talks about temporarily disabling delivery, but it works fine for
permanent blocking, too. I run a Mailman list for the committee of a
non-profit organization, and several of the members are subscribed
under multiple addresses, with all but one of them in nomail mode; it
lets them post from any of their accounts, without moderation delay,
but not get spammed with all the copies.

ChrisA


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Apr 17 19:56:26 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:56:26 +1200
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <mailman.116.1460925709.6324.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85vb3huxjn.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <20160416165027.0fe70e5f@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <CACL+1atx3hC7A7vB0XNNCw8QaZe-yBxzAtbzPs1MxZx43z5V0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160416203052.2598ad15@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <1460858341.2377173.580944673.0F0ECA86@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <7fd7hbh28cmcusb4aqr8oicm04u146j9a9@4ax.com> <5713F4F8.2080307@gmail.com>
 <mailman.116.1460925709.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dnim5aFn2qtU1@mid.individual.net>

Michael Torrie wrote:
> On 04/17/2016 10:13 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> 
>>On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 21:59:01 -0400, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com>
>>declaimed the following:
>>
>>
>>>I heard Windows 10 is going to finally fix this, anyway.
>>
>>	Probably by removing the old CLI window completely and making everyone
>>learn PowerShell ISE
> 
> 
> Or a Linux ELF bash binary running on the new Linux subsystem for
> Windows. :)

And then legacy command-line exes will be supported by running
cmd.exe under WINE in the Linux subsystem.

-- 
Greg


From random832 at fastmail.com  Sun Apr 17 20:27:40 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 20:27:40 -0400
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
In-Reply-To: <57140947.3050902@gmail.com>
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk> <57140947.3050902@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1460939260.3483225.581520729.146827C9@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016, at 18:08, Matt Ruffalo wrote:
> Hi-
> 
> That seems like a reasonable approach, though I think there *really*
> needs to be an option along the lines of "subscribed to the list for the
> purposes of moderation, but not receiving list messages via email".

There is. I'm on several other (non-python, but still using mailman)
mailing lists like that because they require you to be a subscriber to
post via gmane.

> On 2016-04-17 12:57, Tim Golden wrote:
> > First, a quick summary of the current settings of the list:
> >
> > * Any post from someone who's not subscribed to the list is held for
> > moderation

As an alternative, when you send them through can you put a note on the
bottom saying they're not subscribed, to remind people to CC them in
responses? I think that's why we never get any followup on "newbie
problem" questions (especially the crt dll thing and the modify remove
repair thing). A couple other lists I'm on do this and it works well. I
think most of the people who have objections to CC-ing are annoyed when
they *receive* messages CC'd *to them*, rather than objecting on
principle to doing it in reply to other people who aren't subscribed.


From random832 at fastmail.com  Sun Apr 17 20:29:24 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 20:29:24 -0400
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <dnim5aFn2qtU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85vb3huxjn.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <20160416165027.0fe70e5f@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <CACL+1atx3hC7A7vB0XNNCw8QaZe-yBxzAtbzPs1MxZx43z5V0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160416203052.2598ad15@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <1460858341.2377173.580944673.0F0ECA86@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <7fd7hbh28cmcusb4aqr8oicm04u146j9a9@4ax.com>
 <5713F4F8.2080307@gmail.com>
 <mailman.116.1460925709.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <dnim5aFn2qtU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <1460939364.3483512.581523489.7993F05E@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016, at 19:56, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> And then legacy command-line exes will be supported by running
> cmd.exe under WINE in the Linux subsystem.

Running the command directly under WINE, more like. Because cmd.exe is
pretty terrible as a scripting language and command interpreter (MS
knows this, this is why they created PowerShell), and isn't required to
run console programs.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 20:32:08 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 10:32:08 +1000
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
In-Reply-To: <1460939260.3483225.581520729.146827C9@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk> <57140947.3050902@gmail.com>
 <1460939260.3483225.581520729.146827C9@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrvSRt3fwh5Xxi5mAdLV4GwJ+cZ3YbaJcfKezV45Yx-Lw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 10:27 AM, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
> As an alternative, when you send them through can you put a note on the
> bottom saying they're not subscribed, to remind people to CC them in
> responses? I think that's why we never get any followup on "newbie
> problem" questions (especially the crt dll thing and the modify remove
> repair thing). A couple other lists I'm on do this and it works well. I
> think most of the people who have objections to CC-ing are annoyed when
> they *receive* messages CC'd *to them*, rather than objecting on
> principle to doing it in reply to other people who aren't subscribed.

I'd rather insist that people actually join the community. It's too
hard to know when to keep cc'ing someone in.

ChrisA


From p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt  Sun Apr 17 20:46:25 2016
From: p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 01:46:25 +0100
Subject: Creating a hot vector (numpy)
Message-ID: <nf1aor$kiu$1@gioia.aioe.org>

Hi all.

I have seen this "trick" to create a hot vector.

In [45]: x
Out[45]: array([0, 1])

In [46]: y
Out[46]: array([1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0], dtype=uint8)

In [47]: y[:,None]
Out[47]:
array([[1],
       [1],
       [1],
       [0],
       [0],
       [1],
       [0],
       [0]], dtype=uint8)

In [48]: x==y[:,None]
Out[48]:
array([[False,  True],
       [False,  True],
       [False,  True],
       [ True, False],
       [ True, False],
       [False,  True],
       [ True, False],
       [ True, False]], dtype=bool)

In [49]: (x==y[:,None]).astype(np.float32)
Out[49]:
array([[ 0.,  1.],
       [ 0.,  1.],
       [ 0.,  1.],
       [ 1.,  0.],
       [ 1.,  0.],
       [ 0.,  1.],
       [ 1.,  0.],
       [ 1.,  0.]], dtype=float32)

How does this (step 48) work?

Thanks


From steve at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 17 20:46:55 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 10:46:55 +1000
Subject: Introducing the secrets module
References: <5712f69d$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <5713841c$0$5916$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <57142e82$0$1602$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 10:40 pm, Irmen de Jong wrote:

> On 17-4-2016 4:36, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> And the documentation:
>> 
>> https://docs.python.org/3.6/library/secrets.html
>> 
>> 
>> Comments requested.
> 
> I've read about the "How many bytes should tokens use?" consideration. It
> suggests that to be secure, tokens need to have sufficient randomness. The
> default token length is subject to change at any time to remain secure
> against brute-force. However the API allows you to supply any token
> length, even one that is (a lot) shorter than the default.
> In view of the rationale for this new module ("Python's standard library
> makes it too easy for developers to inadvertently make serious security
> errors") should it perhaps not be allowed to use a value that is less than
> the default?
> 
> Hm, perhaps it should not; enforcing this could break code suddenly in the
> future when the default is raised...

Correct.

Also, consider that random tokens are not necessarily for high-security
purposes. Consider Youtube URLs that are intended to be hard to guess and
unpredictable, but permanent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

There are no security implications from revealing or guessing this URL.

On the other hand:

https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/vitaly/gone-in-six-characters-short-urls-considered-harmful-for-cloud-services/




-- 
Steven



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Apr 17 20:49:07 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 10:49:07 +1000
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk> <57140947.3050902@gmail.com>
 <57141C40.8060007@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <8537qju4fw.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> writes:

> On 04/17/2016 03:08 PM, Matt Ruffalo wrote:
>
> > That seems like a reasonable approach, though I think there *really*
> > needs to be an option along the lines of "subscribed to the list for
> > the purposes of moderation, but not receiving list messages via
> > email".
>
> I don't understand what you are saying.
>
> If you are not receiving emails, how are you reading the list?  A news
> reader?

Another way is to receive messages to one email address, but to post
using a different email address that should not receive those messages.

E.g. the same person may wish to post as <alice at example.org>, but not
receive messages to that address because they receive the same messages
already at <alice at example.com>.

> If you are subscribed for moderation, how does that help with the lag
> time when you do post?

I think that (using the above example) the wish is for *both* those
addresses to be considered ?subscribed for the purpose of moderation?,
without that also entailing delivery of messages.

-- 
 \     ?What is needed is not the will to believe but the will to find |
  `\       out, which is the exact opposite.? ?Bertrand Russell, _Free |
_o__)                           Thought and Official Propaganda_, 1928 |
Ben Finney



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Apr 17 20:51:44 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 10:51:44 +1000
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk> <57140947.3050902@gmail.com>
 <1460939260.3483225.581520729.146827C9@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <85y48bspr3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> writes:

> As an alternative, when you send them through can you put a note on
> the bottom saying they're not subscribed, to remind people to CC them
> in responses?

That still relies on every participant manually changing from the
correct behaviour (reply to the mailing list only, by default).

> I think that's why we never get any followup on "newbie problem"
> questions

I think encouraging new posters to have a subscription in order to
participate is the right way forward.

-- 
 \     ?Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.? ?Aldous |
  `\                                                            Huxley |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From steve at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 17 21:03:46 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:03:46 +1000
Subject: [OT] Java generics (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated)
References: <CAN8CLg=_5oBp5ehR_NgfjQcXuM5cWajAVdKT7BytKJ93r13L0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrvp0qzwnDhA8oLEwJfTW-JqUvWz8gS_4AYcaR91jLiqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.123.1460935859.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57143273$0$1610$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:30 am, Chris Angelico wrote:

> "Java" was originally four related, but separate, concepts: a source
> language, a bytecode, a sandboxing system, and one other that I can't
> now remember. 

The virtual machine? Or is that what you mean by bytecode?

The Java Virtual Machine is probably the most successful part of Java, as it
has spawned a whole lot of new languages that are built on the JVM,
including Clojure, Groovy and Scala, as well as JVM implementations of
Python, Ruby, Javascript, Perl6, TCL, Fortran, Oberon, Pascal and more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_JVM_languages

One of the more interesting approaches is of Fantom, a new language designed
from the beginning to run on top of any of the JVM, the .Net CLR, or a
Javascript VM.



-- 
Steven



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 21:17:25 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:17:25 +1000
Subject: [OT] Java generics (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated)
In-Reply-To: <57143273$0$1610$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CAN8CLg=_5oBp5ehR_NgfjQcXuM5cWajAVdKT7BytKJ93r13L0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrvp0qzwnDhA8oLEwJfTW-JqUvWz8gS_4AYcaR91jLiqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.123.1460935859.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <57143273$0$1610$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpY9J0H0p0_cSz8HnAEpYvdzPY9_8Ehnq48u2Xd1pQxgw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:30 am, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> "Java" was originally four related, but separate, concepts: a source
>> language, a bytecode, a sandboxing system, and one other that I can't
>> now remember.
>
> The virtual machine? Or is that what you mean by bytecode?

Could be. I can't remember where it was that I read about the
four-part name overloading on "Java", but it doesn't much matter. The
VM and bytecode go together, and the sandboxing is the thing that
makes that better than just compiling to machine code.

> The Java Virtual Machine is probably the most successful part of Java, as it
> has spawned a whole lot of new languages that are built on the JVM,
> including Clojure, Groovy and Scala, as well as JVM implementations of
> Python, Ruby, Javascript, Perl6, TCL, Fortran, Oberon, Pascal and more.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_JVM_languages

Yes, but how long did it take before they came along? I didn't click
on all the links, but the five that Wikipedia lists as "High Profile"
are all post-2000. By that time, Flash had already established a
strong footing. NetRexx, in contrast, dates back to 1996, when the
battle was on. It could have been Java's game entirely if there'd been
enough interest in the early days.

> One of the more interesting approaches is of Fantom, a new language designed
> from the beginning to run on top of any of the JVM, the .Net CLR, or a
> Javascript VM.

I hadn't heard of that one specifically, but there have been some
extremely interesting forays into language layering. (PyPyJS, I'm
looking at you.) Code is code, compilers are compilers, you can
implement anything in anything. Although sometimes it's just for the
sake of showing off ("hey look, I just compiled Firefox to asm.js and
ran it inside Firefox!")... but that's fun too :)

ChrisA


From steve at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 17 21:39:11 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:39:11 +1000
Subject: QWERTY was not designed to intentionally slow typists down (was:
 Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?])
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.101.1460162658.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <570876f1$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1460217233.3804713.573755729.61D3FCF2@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.126.1460217236.2253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57143ac0$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

Oh no, it's the thread that wouldn't die! *wink*


On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 01:53 am, Random832 wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016, at 23:28, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> This is the power of the "slowing typists down is a myth" meme: same
>> Wikipedia contributor takes an article which *clearly and obviously*
>> repeats the conventional narrative that QWERTY was designed to
>> decrease the number of key presses per second, and uses that to defend
>> the counter-myth that QWERTY wasn't designed to decrease the number of
>> key presses per second!
> 
> Er, the footnote is clearly and obviously being used to cite the claim
> that that is popularly believed, not the claim that it's incorrect.

That's not clear nor obvious to me. But I won't quibble, I'll accept that as
a plausible interpretation.


>> These are the historical facts:
> 
>> - Sholes spend significant time developing a layout which reduced the
>>   number of jams by intentionally moving frequently typed characters
>>   far apart, which has the effect of slowing down the rate at which
>>   the typist can hit keys;
> 
> "Moving characters far apart has the effect of slowing down the rate at
> which the typist can hit keys" is neither a fact nor historical.

Actually, yes it is. At least, according to this website:

http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/Dvorak/history.html

  [quote]
  Because typists at that time used the "hunt-and-peck" method,
  Sholes's arrangement increased the time it took for the typists
  to hit the keys for common two-letter combinations enough to
  ensure that each type bar had time to fall back sufficiently
  far to be out of the way before the next one came up.
  [end quote]


The QWERTY layout was first sold in 1873 while the first known use of
ten-fingered typing was in 1878, and touch-typing wasn't invented for
another decade, in 1888.

So I think it is pretty clear that *at the time QWERTY was invented*
it slowed down the rate at which keys were pressed, thus allowing an
overall greater typing speed thanks to the reduced jamming.

Short of a signed memo from Shole himself, commenting one way or another, I
don't think we're going to find anything more definitive.

Even though QWERTY wasn't designed with touch-typing in mind, it's
interesting to look at some of the weaknesses of the system. It is almost
as if it had been designed to make touch-typing as inefficient as
possible :-) Just consider the home keys. The home keys require the least
amount of finger or hand movement, and are therefore the fastest to reach.
With QWERTY, the eight home keys only cover a fraction over a quarter of
all key presses: ASDF JKL; have frequencies of

8.12% 6.28% 4.32% 2.30% 0.10% 0.69% 3.98% and effectively 0%

making a total of 25.79%. If you also include G and H as "virtual
home-keys", that rises to 33.74%.

But that's far less than the obvious tactic of using the most common
letters ETAOIN as the home keys, which would cover 51.18% just from those
eight keys alone. The 19th century Blickensderfer typewriter used a similar
layout, with the ten home keys DHIATENSOR as the home keys. This would
allow the typist to make just under 74% of all alphabetical key presses
without moving the hands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blickensderfer_typewriter

Letter frequencies taken from here:

http://www.math.cornell.edu/~mec/2003-2004/cryptography/subs/frequencies.html


> Keys 
> that are further apart *can be hit faster without jamming* due to the
> specifics of the type-basket mechanism, and there's no reason to think
> that they can't be hit with at least equal speed by the typist.

You may be correct about that specific issue when it comes to touch typing,
but touch typing was 15 years in the future when Sholes invented QWERTY.
And unlike Guido, he didn't have a time-machine :-)



-- 
Steven



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 21:39:36 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 18:39:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <mailman.89.1460864965.6324.python-list@python.org>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8ff10001-1c49-4490-b873-018507243ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmqAN-McpPUxiBRCU75mYxhU6-4_9imvBxQRFVLERBoyFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.89.1460864965.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <04721fe6-5feb-49c8-b5b2-beb12f6ff495@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 17, 2016 at 9:19:48 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 1:44 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > Thats a strange self-contradiction.  I wrote this:
> >  http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/layout-imperative-in-functional.html
> > to make the case against PEP8 style line length strictures.
> > Which has the SAME code formatted in two styles:
> >
> > --  < 80 cols, 48 lines
> > --  115 cols 37 lines
> >
> > Clearly the 115 cols is MORE fittable in a page than the 80 cols
> > [Though my argument for that is based on other structural/semantic principles]
> 
> There are certain specific situations where 80 (79) is the correct
> width to aim for, but even if you aren't going for that, there's still
> the general principle that longer lines are harder to read. So maybe
> you declare that your codebase is allowed to go to 100, or 120, but
> you don't want to let it run to 2048. No matter WHAT screen you're on,
> that's too wide!

yes we can agree on this -- arbitrary line lengths are almost certainly
unreadable.
The problem then becomes so what is optimal?
Interesting question... and one that certainly has no bearing on the characteristics.
of 30 year old technology.
Remember that the most important characteristics of code are almost always 
un-legislatable
eg choose 'nice' names.


From steve at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 17 21:57:01 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:57:01 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8ff10001-1c49-4490-b873-018507243ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <877ffw5wjo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <57143eee$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 09:01 pm, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> In fact, if you find yourself introducing coding "paragraphs" with
> comments:
> 
> def f(...):
> # I'll start by doing this
> ...
> # segueing into the middle portion
> ...
> # and finish it off as follows
> ...
> 
> you had better break those paragraphs off into separate functions. Just
> turn your comments into function names.

I'm reminded of the book "Refactoring - Ruby Edition" by Jay Fields, Shane
Harvie and Martin Fowler (which I strongly recommend, for what it's worth).
It is full of sections like:

Change Value to Reference
Change Reference to Value

Decompose Conditional
Recompose Conditional

and most relevant to this discussion:

Extract Method
Inline Method

(For "Method", substitute "Function".)

The intro to Extract Method says:

"You have a code fragment that can be grouped together."

and then the author explains that he looks for methods which are too long,
or code that needs a comment to explain what it does, and turns that
fragment of code into its own method.

But then the same author goes on to introduce Inline Method:

"A method's body is just as clear as its name."

and explains "sometimes you do come across a method in which the body is as
clear as the name. ... When this happens, you should then get rid of the
method. Indirection can be helpful, but needless indirection is
irritating."

Indeed.

Once your code is the most straight-forward and simple implementation of the
needed algorithm, it is hard to reduce complexity any further. All you can
do is move the complexity around. You can hide the complexity inside the
function, where it exposes itself only to those who need to dig into the
body of the function to understand what it does.

Or you can extract the code into functions of their own, which decreases the
internal complexity of the function, but increases the complexity of the
application or module.

Extract Method hides complexity of the function by moving it into the
module:

def Do_The_Thing():
    ...

def internal_subpart_start(): ...

def internal_subpart_middle(): ...

def internal_subpart_end(): ...


Inline Method reduces module complexity by moving it into the function:

def Do_The_Thing():
    ...  # internal subpart start
    ...  # internal subpart middle
    ...  # internal subpart end


But the total complexity remains the same.


One technique which is common in Pascal, but less so in Python, is to get
the best of both worlds by using nested functions. In Python syntax:


def Do_The_Thing():
    def internal_subpart_start(): ...
    def internal_subpart_middle(): ...
    def internal_subpart_end(): ...
    ...


This hides complexity of the function by moving it into the nested
functions, where they can be ignored, but without increasing the complexity
of the module. (Of course, the *total* complexity of module, function and
nested functions is the same.)




-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 17 21:59:39 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:59:39 +1000
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk> <57140947.3050902@gmail.com>
 <1460939260.3483225.581520729.146827C9@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.125.1460939269.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57143f8b$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 18 Apr 2016 10:27 am, Random832 wrote:

> As an alternative, when you send them through can you put a note on the
> bottom saying they're not subscribed, to remind people to CC them in
> responses?

That doesn't work so well from Usenet. I can reply via news (which
definitely works), or I can reply via email (which may or may not work),
but it is a pain to reply via *both*.


-- 
Steven



From random832 at fastmail.com  Sun Apr 17 22:01:49 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 22:01:49 -0400
Subject: QWERTY was not designed to intentionally slow typists down (was:
 Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?])
In-Reply-To: <57143ac0$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.101.1460162658.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <570876f1$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1460217233.3804713.573755729.61D3FCF2@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.126.1460217236.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <57143ac0$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1460944909.3502334.581571497.197404E2@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016, at 21:39, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Oh no, it's the thread that wouldn't die! *wink*
>
> Actually, yes it is. At least, according to this website:
> 
> http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/Dvorak/history.html

I'd really rather see an instance of the claim not associated with
Dvorak marketing. It only holds up as an obvious inference from the
nature of how typing works if we assume *one*-finger hunt-and-peck
rather than two-finger. Your website describes two-finger as the method
that was being replaced by the 1878 introduction of ten-finger typing.

> The QWERTY layout was first sold in 1873 while the first known use of
> ten-fingered typing was in 1878, and touch-typing wasn't invented for
> another decade, in 1888.

Two-finger hunt-and-peck is sufficient for placing keys on opposite
hands to speed typing up rather than slow it down.


From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 22:05:24 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 19:05:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What iterable method should I use for Lists of Lists
Message-ID: <67c4c88b-62e9-4275-a761-25e5d7114025@googlegroups.com>

Hi

I have an XML and using pyquery to obtain the elements within it and then write it to csv.

What is the best most reliable way to take dictionaries of each element, and print them(csv write later) based on each position so get item 0 of each list and then it 1 and so on.

Any other code I post is open to criticism. Because there are many attributes I will want to collect my thought is to create a list of lists, again seems a bit clunky so could be wrong.

from pyquery import PyQuery as pq


d = pq(filename='20160319RHIL0_edit.xml')
res = d('nomination')
# myAt = pq.each(res.attr('bbid'))
# print(repr(res))
# myAt = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
# print(myAt)

nomID = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
horseName = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
group = [nomID, horseName]

for items in group:
    print(items)


This is my source.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<meeting id="42736" barriertrial="0" venue="Rosehill Gardens" date="2016-03-19T00:00:00" gearchanges="-1" stewardsreport="-1" gearlist="-1" racebook="0" postracestewards="0" meetingtype="TAB" rail="Timing - Electronic : Rail - +2m" weather="Fine      " trackcondition="Good" nomsdeadline="2016-03-14T11:00:00" weightsdeadline="2016-03-15T16:00:00" acceptdeadline="2016-03-16T09:00:00" jockeydeadline="2016-03-16T12:00:00">
  <club abbrevname="Australian Turf Club" code="56398" associationclass="1" website="http://" />
  <race id="213262" number="1" nomnumber="7" division="0" name="NATHAN'S FAMOUS EPONA STAKES" mediumname="EPONA" shortname="EPONA STAKES" stage="Results" distance="1900" minweight="0" raisedweight="0" class="~         " age="3U        " grade="0" weightcondition="SWP       " trophy="1000" owner="1000" trainer="0" jockey="0" strapper="0" totalprize="150000" first="90000" second="30000" third="15000" fourth="7500" fifth="3000" time="2016-03-19T12:40:00" bonustype="          " nomsfee="0" acceptfee="0" trackcondition="Good      " timingmethod="Electronic" fastesttime="1-56.83   " sectionaltime="600/35.3  " formavailable="0" racebookprize="Of $150000 and trophies of $1000. First $90000 and trophies of $1000 to owner, second $30000, third $15000, fourth $7500, fifth $3000, sixth $1500, seventh $1500, eighth $1500">
    <condition line="1">Of $150000 and trophies of $1000. First $90000 and trophies of $1000 to owner, second $30000, third $15000, fourth $7500, fifth $3000, sixth $1500, seventh $1500, eighth $1500</condition>
    <condition line="3">No class restriction, Set Weights plus Penalties, For Three-Years-Old and Upwards, Fillies and Mares, (Group 3)</condition>
    <condition line="5">No Allowances for apprentices. Field Limit: 14 + 4 EM</condition>
    <nomination number="4" saddlecloth="4" horse="Vergara" id="171115" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="1" trainernumber="38701" trainersurname="Cummings" trainerfirstname="Anthony" trainertrack="Randwick" rsbtrainername="Anthony Cummings" jockeynumber="86876" jockeysurname="McDonald" jockeyfirstname="James" barrier="7" weight="55" rating="93" description="B M 5 Snippetson x Graces Spirit (Flying Spur)" colours="Yellow, Red Epaulettes And Cap" owners="Anthony Cummings Thoroughbreds Pty Ltd Syndicate (Mgrs: A &amp; B Cummings) &amp; P C Racing Investments Syndicate (Mgr: P J Carroll)  " dob="2010-10-07T00:00:00" age="6" sex="M" career="30-7-4-2 $295445.00" thistrack="6-1-1-0 $90500.00" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="17-3-2-2 $101440.00" heavytrack="5-0-1-0 $20200.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="7-2-1-2 $108340.00" secondup="7-1-1-0 $43200.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="1" weightvariation="0" variedweight="55" decimalmargin="0.00" penalty="0" pricestarting="$12" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
    <nomination number="2" saddlecloth="2" horse="Heavens Above" id="187674" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="736" trainersurname="Martin" trainerfirstname="Tim" trainertrack="Rosehill" rsbtrainername="Tim Martin" jockeynumber="46930" jockeysurname="Angland" jockeyfirstname="Tye" barrier="6" weight="56" rating="88" description="B M 4 Street Cry(IRE) x Reggie(NZ) (Germano(GB))" colours="Yellow, Green Chevrons, Striped Cap" owners="President Bloodstock Pty Ltd (Mgr: R C Kemister)" dob="2011-08-12T00:00:00" age="5" sex="M" career="12-3-3-4 $271520.00" thistrack="4-0-3-0 $41425.00" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="10-2-2-4 $214845.00" heavytrack="0-0-0-0" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="2-0-1-1 $20710.00" secondup="2-0-2-0 $24675.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="2" weightvariation="0" variedweight="56" decimalmargin="0.20" penalty="0" pricestarting="$3.80F" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
    <nomination number="6" saddlecloth="6" horse="Sweet Fire" id="184732" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="681" trainersurname="Waller" trainerfirstname="Chris" trainertrack="Rosehill" rsbtrainername="Chris Waller" jockeynumber="51661" jockeysurname="Berry" jockeyfirstname="Tommy" barrier="5" weight="54" rating="85" description="BR M 4 Shamardal(USA) x Zarinia(IRE) (Intikhab(USA))" colours="Lilac And White Halves, Black Cap" owners="E J Lucas " dob="2011-09-25T00:00:00" age="5" sex="M" career="15-4-2-2 $212750.00" thistrack="6-1-1-1 $56690.00" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="9-2-1-2 $120395.00" heavytrack="1-0-0-0 $450.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="3-0-0-0 $1900.00" secondup="3-1-1-0 $42200.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="3" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="0.50" penalty="0" pricestarting="$7" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
    <nomination number="7" saddlecloth="7" horse="Alegria" id="181928" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="1" trainernumber="235" trainersurname="O'Shea" trainerfirstname="John" trainertrack="Agnes Banks/Hawkesbury" rsbtrainername="John O'Shea" jockeynumber="40275" jockeysurname="Clark" jockeyfirstname="Tim" barrier="1" weight="54" rating="81" description="B M 4 Medaglia D'oro(USA) x Pure Joy (Fusaichi Pegasus(USA))" colours="Royal Blue" owners="Godolphin" dob="2011-10-06T00:00:00" age="5" sex="M" career="12-3-1-5 $216850.00" thistrack="4-1-0-2 $89600.00" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="5-1-1-3 $87575.00" heavytrack="4-2-0-1 $114275.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="3-2-0-1 $80500.00" secondup="3-0-0-2 $20850.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="4" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="0.70" penalty="0" pricestarting="$8.50" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
    <nomination number="11" saddlecloth="11" horse="Piamimi" id="158914" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="773" trainersurname="Bennett" trainerfirstname="Greg" trainertrack="Scone" rsbtrainername="Greg Bennett" jockeynumber="48503" jockeysurname="Williams" jockeyfirstname="Craig" barrier="8" weight="54" rating="75" description="B OR BR M 6 Not a Single Doubt x Blurrta(NZ) (Bahhare(USA))" colours="Yellow, Dark Blue Diamonds, Striped Sleeves And Cap" owners="Dr M Wylie, K Kenny, J Canning, M Mcfayden, B Hyde &amp; P Toubji " dob="2009-08-23T00:00:00" age="7" sex="M" career="35-6-4-3 $170275.00" thistrack="2-0-0-0 $5150.00" thisdistance="2-0-0-0 $900.00" goodtrack="25-3-2-2 $78640.00" heavytrack="4-1-1-1 $24510.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="8-1-3-0 $27375.00" secondup="8-1-0-2 $32645.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="5" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="1.10" penalty="0" pricestarting="$41" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
    <nomination number="10" saddlecloth="10" horse="Blendwell" id="171408" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="78024" trainersurname="Moody" trainerfirstname="Peter G" trainertrack="Warwick Farm" rsbtrainername="Peter G Moody" jockeynumber="85036" jockeysurname="Lane" jockeyfirstname="Damian" barrier="10" weight="54" rating="78" description="B M 5 Hard Spun(USA) x Bridie Belle(NZ) (Al Akbar)" colours="Tartan, Red Sash And Armbands" owners="D &amp; M Esplin Pty Ltd (Mgr: Mrs M E Esplin)" dob="2010-10-06T00:00:00" age="6" sex="M" career="17-4-3-4 $107845.00" thistrack="0-0-0-0" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="8-0-1-2 $25135.00" heavytrack="2-2-0-0 $42000.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="6-0-0-3 $8835.00" secondup="3-1-0-1 $20050.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="6" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="1.20" penalty="0" pricestarting="$17" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
    <nomination number="3" saddlecloth="3" horse="Adorabeel (NZ)" id="166836" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="1942" trainersurname="Pride" trainerfirstname="Joseph" trainertrack="Warwick Farm" rsbtrainername="Joseph Pride" jockeynumber="86280" jockeysurname="Clipperton" jockeyfirstname="Sam" barrier="9" weight="56" rating="86" description="BR OR BLK M 6 Savabeel x Plaza Doree(FR) (Saumarez(GB))" colours="Maroon, White Crossed Sashes, Yellow Armbands And Cap" owners="Mystery Downs (Mgr: F W Cook)" dob="2009-09-11T00:00:00" age="7" sex="M" career="34-6-5-4 $281810.00" thistrack="11-1-2-1 $105750.00" thisdistance="2-0-0-0 $3800.00" goodtrack="24-3-3-1 $203910.00" heavytrack="0-0-0-0" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="7-1-1-1 $28650.00" secondup="7-0-2-1 $25050.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="7" weightvariation="0" variedweight="56" decimalmargin="2.30" penalty="0" pricestarting="$13" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
    <nomination number="8" saddlecloth="8" horse="Mary Lou" id="172933" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="1" trainernumber="38701" trainersurname="Cummings" trainerfirstname="Anthony" trainertrack="Randwick" rsbtrainername="Anthony Cummings" jockeynumber="86596" jockeysurname="Collett" jockeyfirstname="Jason" barrier="11" weight="54" rating="80" description="B M 5 Fastnet Rock x Miss Alabama(NZ) (Woodman(USA))" colours="Red, Black Diagonal Stripes And Armbands, Quartered Cap" owners="E-Thoroughbred (Mgr: A W &amp; M G Bott) &amp; Evergreen Rich (Mgr: A W Bott, P K Siu, M Siu &amp; E Siu)" dob="2010-09-18T00:00:00" age="6" sex="M" career="18-3-3-4 $156860.00" thistrack="3-1-0-1 $33375.00" thisdistance="1-1-0-0 $17250.00" goodtrack="14-3-2-4 $130335.00" heavytrack="2-0-0-0 $525.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="3-1-0-0 $31125.00" secondup="3-0-1-2 $25100.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="8" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="2.70" penalty="0" pricestarting="$18" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
    <nomination number="9" saddlecloth="9" horse="Skyline Blush" id="182533" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="1" trainernumber="38701" trainersurname="Cummings" trainerfirstname="Anthony" trainertrack="Randwick" rsbtrainername="Anthony Cummings" jockeynumber="1472" jockeysurname="McEvoy" jockeyfirstname="Kerrin" barrier="4" weight="54" rating="80" description="B M 4 Northern Meteor x Cara Y Cruz(USA) (King of Kings(IRE))" colours="Red, Black Stripes" owners="Gooree Stud (E M Cojuangco &amp; M C Cummings)" dob="2011-10-29T00:00:00" age="5" sex="M" career="14-5-0-2 $204190.00" thistrack="4-1-0-1 $52225.00" thisdistance="2-1-0-1 $41375.00" goodtrack="7-0-0-1 $19535.00" heavytrack="4-2-0-1 $111125.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="3-1-0-0 $21125.00" secondup="3-0-0-1 $12460.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="9" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="3.10" penalty="0" pricestarting="$9.50" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
    <nomination number="5" saddlecloth="5" horse="All Cerise" id="171801" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="681" trainersurname="Waller" trainerfirstname="Chris" trainertrack="Rosehill" rsbtrainername="Chris Waller" jockeynumber="86721" jockeysurname="Dunn" jockeyfirstname="Dwayne" barrier="3" weight="54" rating="92" description="B M 5 Redoute's Choice x Trick Taker(USA) (Capote(USA))" colours="Purple, White Hoops, Black Seams, Purple And White Quartered Cap" owners="Woppitt Bloodstock (Mgr: Mrs D N Kepitis)" dob="2010-11-05T00:00:00" age="6" sex="M" career="28-6-3-3 $349890.00" thistrack="10-1-1-1 $111750.00" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="21-6-2-3 $327690.00" heavytrack="2-0-0-0 $450.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="7-1-0-2 $45790.00" secondup="4-1-0-0 $71200.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="10" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="4.10" penalty="0" pricestarting="$6" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
    <nomination number="1" saddlecloth="1" horse="Gust of Wind (NZ)" id="181079" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="1" trainernumber="41655" trainersurname="Sargent" trainerfirstname="John" trainertrack="Randwick" rsbtrainername="John Sargent" jockeynumber="84015" jockeysurname="Avdulla" jockeyfirstname="Brenton" barrier="2" weight="59" rating="106" description="B M 4 Darci Brahma(NZ) x Starrystarrynight(IRE) (Sadler's Wells(USA))" colours="Yellow, White Checked Sash, Checked Sleeves And Cap" owners="Go Bloodstock (Mgr: Sir O G Glenn)" dob="2011-09-07T00:00:00" age="5" sex="M" career="12-3-0-0 $974900.00" thistrack="0-0-0-0" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="10-2-0-0 $279150.00" heavytrack="0-0-0-0" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="4-1-0-0 $8900.00" secondup="3-1-0-0 $20250.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="11" weightvariation="0" variedweight="59" decimalmargin="7.40" penalty="0" pricestarting="$15" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
  </race>
</meeting>

If I do this


nomID = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
horseName = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
print(nomID, horseName)

comes out correctly

In [7]: 171115 Vergara

Since I will be taking another 10 attributes out of nominmation category an efficient way that ensures data integrity would be valued.

Thanks

Sayth 



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 22:09:57 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 12:09:57 +1000
Subject: QWERTY was not designed to intentionally slow typists down (was:
 Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?])
In-Reply-To: <57143ac0$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net>
 <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.101.1460162658.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <570876f1$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1460217233.3804713.573755729.61D3FCF2@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.126.1460217236.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <57143ac0$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrXVcWFRoewSf3UOkbFeofrf1K_qBtzuQCmTZYVEZmnsg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> With QWERTY, the eight home keys only cover a fraction over a quarter of
> all key presses: ASDF JKL; have frequencies of
>
> 8.12% 6.28% 4.32% 2.30% 0.10% 0.69% 3.98% and effectively 0%
>
> making a total of 25.79%. If you also include G and H as "virtual
> home-keys", that rises to 33.74%.

Hey, that's a little unfair. Remember, lots of people still have to
write C code, so the semicolon is an important character! :) In fact,
skimming the CPython source code (grouped by file extension) shows
that C code has more semicolons than j's or k's:

a 3.19% s 3.26% d 1.90% f 1.76% g 0.95% h 0.89% j 0.36% k 0.35% l 2.62% ; 1.40%

for a total of 16.69% of characters coming from the home row.

ChrisA


From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 22:12:45 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 19:12:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What iterable method should I use for Lists of Lists
In-Reply-To: <67c4c88b-62e9-4275-a761-25e5d7114025@googlegroups.com>
References: <67c4c88b-62e9-4275-a761-25e5d7114025@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b90ac09a-7ab1-48cd-a966-f66f8f0376fa@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, 18 April 2016 12:05:39 UTC+10, Sayth Renshaw  wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I have an XML and using pyquery to obtain the elements within it and then write it to csv.
> 
> What is the best most reliable way to take dictionaries of each element, and print them(csv write later) based on each position so get item 0 of each list and then it 1 and so on.
> 
> Any other code I post is open to criticism. Because there are many attributes I will want to collect my thought is to create a list of lists, again seems a bit clunky so could be wrong.
> 
> from pyquery import PyQuery as pq
> 
> 
> d = pq(filename='20160319RHIL0_edit.xml')
> res = d('nomination')
> # myAt = pq.each(res.attr('bbid'))
> # print(repr(res))
> # myAt = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
> # print(myAt)
> 
> nomID = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
> horseName = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
> group = [nomID, horseName]
> 
> for items in group:
>     print(items)
> 
> 
> This is my source.
> 
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
> <meeting id="42736" barriertrial="0" venue="Rosehill Gardens" date="2016-03-19T00:00:00" gearchanges="-1" stewardsreport="-1" gearlist="-1" racebook="0" postracestewards="0" meetingtype="TAB" rail="Timing - Electronic : Rail - +2m" weather="Fine      " trackcondition="Good" nomsdeadline="2016-03-14T11:00:00" weightsdeadline="2016-03-15T16:00:00" acceptdeadline="2016-03-16T09:00:00" jockeydeadline="2016-03-16T12:00:00">
>   <club abbrevname="Australian Turf Club" code="56398" associationclass="1" website="http://" />
>   <race id="213262" number="1" nomnumber="7" division="0" name="NATHAN'S FAMOUS EPONA STAKES" mediumname="EPONA" shortname="EPONA STAKES" stage="Results" distance="1900" minweight="0" raisedweight="0" class="~         " age="3U        " grade="0" weightcondition="SWP       " trophy="1000" owner="1000" trainer="0" jockey="0" strapper="0" totalprize="150000" first="90000" second="30000" third="15000" fourth="7500" fifth="3000" time="2016-03-19T12:40:00" bonustype="          " nomsfee="0" acceptfee="0" trackcondition="Good      " timingmethod="Electronic" fastesttime="1-56.83   " sectionaltime="600/35.3  " formavailable="0" racebookprize="Of $150000 and trophies of $1000. First $90000 and trophies of $1000 to owner, second $30000, third $15000, fourth $7500, fifth $3000, sixth $1500, seventh $1500, eighth $1500">
>     <condition line="1">Of $150000 and trophies of $1000. First $90000 and trophies of $1000 to owner, second $30000, third $15000, fourth $7500, fifth $3000, sixth $1500, seventh $1500, eighth $1500</condition>
>     <condition line="3">No class restriction, Set Weights plus Penalties, For Three-Years-Old and Upwards, Fillies and Mares, (Group 3)</condition>
>     <condition line="5">No Allowances for apprentices. Field Limit: 14 + 4 EM</condition>
>     <nomination number="4" saddlecloth="4" horse="Vergara" id="171115" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="1" trainernumber="38701" trainersurname="Cummings" trainerfirstname="Anthony" trainertrack="Randwick" rsbtrainername="Anthony Cummings" jockeynumber="86876" jockeysurname="McDonald" jockeyfirstname="James" barrier="7" weight="55" rating="93" description="B M 5 Snippetson x Graces Spirit (Flying Spur)" colours="Yellow, Red Epaulettes And Cap" owners="Anthony Cummings Thoroughbreds Pty Ltd Syndicate (Mgrs: A &amp; B Cummings) &amp; P C Racing Investments Syndicate (Mgr: P J Carroll)  " dob="2010-10-07T00:00:00" age="6" sex="M" career="30-7-4-2 $295445.00" thistrack="6-1-1-0 $90500.00" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="17-3-2-2 $101440.00" heavytrack="5-0-1-0 $20200.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="7-2-1-2 $108340.00" secondup="7-1-1-0 $43200.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="1" weightvariation="0" variedweight="55" decimalmargin="0.00" penalty="0" pricestarting="$12" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
>     <nomination number="2" saddlecloth="2" horse="Heavens Above" id="187674" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="736" trainersurname="Martin" trainerfirstname="Tim" trainertrack="Rosehill" rsbtrainername="Tim Martin" jockeynumber="46930" jockeysurname="Angland" jockeyfirstname="Tye" barrier="6" weight="56" rating="88" description="B M 4 Street Cry(IRE) x Reggie(NZ) (Germano(GB))" colours="Yellow, Green Chevrons, Striped Cap" owners="President Bloodstock Pty Ltd (Mgr: R C Kemister)" dob="2011-08-12T00:00:00" age="5" sex="M" career="12-3-3-4 $271520.00" thistrack="4-0-3-0 $41425.00" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="10-2-2-4 $214845.00" heavytrack="0-0-0-0" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="2-0-1-1 $20710.00" secondup="2-0-2-0 $24675.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="2" weightvariation="0" variedweight="56" decimalmargin="0.20" penalty="0" pricestarting="$3.80F" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
>     <nomination number="6" saddlecloth="6" horse="Sweet Fire" id="184732" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="681" trainersurname="Waller" trainerfirstname="Chris" trainertrack="Rosehill" rsbtrainername="Chris Waller" jockeynumber="51661" jockeysurname="Berry" jockeyfirstname="Tommy" barrier="5" weight="54" rating="85" description="BR M 4 Shamardal(USA) x Zarinia(IRE) (Intikhab(USA))" colours="Lilac And White Halves, Black Cap" owners="E J Lucas " dob="2011-09-25T00:00:00" age="5" sex="M" career="15-4-2-2 $212750.00" thistrack="6-1-1-1 $56690.00" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="9-2-1-2 $120395.00" heavytrack="1-0-0-0 $450.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="3-0-0-0 $1900.00" secondup="3-1-1-0 $42200.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="3" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="0.50" penalty="0" pricestarting="$7" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
>     <nomination number="7" saddlecloth="7" horse="Alegria" id="181928" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="1" trainernumber="235" trainersurname="O'Shea" trainerfirstname="John" trainertrack="Agnes Banks/Hawkesbury" rsbtrainername="John O'Shea" jockeynumber="40275" jockeysurname="Clark" jockeyfirstname="Tim" barrier="1" weight="54" rating="81" description="B M 4 Medaglia D'oro(USA) x Pure Joy (Fusaichi Pegasus(USA))" colours="Royal Blue" owners="Godolphin" dob="2011-10-06T00:00:00" age="5" sex="M" career="12-3-1-5 $216850.00" thistrack="4-1-0-2 $89600.00" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="5-1-1-3 $87575.00" heavytrack="4-2-0-1 $114275.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="3-2-0-1 $80500.00" secondup="3-0-0-2 $20850.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="4" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="0.70" penalty="0" pricestarting="$8.50" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
>     <nomination number="11" saddlecloth="11" horse="Piamimi" id="158914" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="773" trainersurname="Bennett" trainerfirstname="Greg" trainertrack="Scone" rsbtrainername="Greg Bennett" jockeynumber="48503" jockeysurname="Williams" jockeyfirstname="Craig" barrier="8" weight="54" rating="75" description="B OR BR M 6 Not a Single Doubt x Blurrta(NZ) (Bahhare(USA))" colours="Yellow, Dark Blue Diamonds, Striped Sleeves And Cap" owners="Dr M Wylie, K Kenny, J Canning, M Mcfayden, B Hyde &amp; P Toubji " dob="2009-08-23T00:00:00" age="7" sex="M" career="35-6-4-3 $170275.00" thistrack="2-0-0-0 $5150.00" thisdistance="2-0-0-0 $900.00" goodtrack="25-3-2-2 $78640.00" heavytrack="4-1-1-1 $24510.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="8-1-3-0 $27375.00" secondup="8-1-0-2 $32645.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="5" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="1.10" penalty="0" pricestarting="$41" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
>     <nomination number="10" saddlecloth="10" horse="Blendwell" id="171408" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="78024" trainersurname="Moody" trainerfirstname="Peter G" trainertrack="Warwick Farm" rsbtrainername="Peter G Moody" jockeynumber="85036" jockeysurname="Lane" jockeyfirstname="Damian" barrier="10" weight="54" rating="78" description="B M 5 Hard Spun(USA) x Bridie Belle(NZ) (Al Akbar)" colours="Tartan, Red Sash And Armbands" owners="D &amp; M Esplin Pty Ltd (Mgr: Mrs M E Esplin)" dob="2010-10-06T00:00:00" age="6" sex="M" career="17-4-3-4 $107845.00" thistrack="0-0-0-0" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="8-0-1-2 $25135.00" heavytrack="2-2-0-0 $42000.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="6-0-0-3 $8835.00" secondup="3-1-0-1 $20050.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="6" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="1.20" penalty="0" pricestarting="$17" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
>     <nomination number="3" saddlecloth="3" horse="Adorabeel (NZ)" id="166836" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="1942" trainersurname="Pride" trainerfirstname="Joseph" trainertrack="Warwick Farm" rsbtrainername="Joseph Pride" jockeynumber="86280" jockeysurname="Clipperton" jockeyfirstname="Sam" barrier="9" weight="56" rating="86" description="BR OR BLK M 6 Savabeel x Plaza Doree(FR) (Saumarez(GB))" colours="Maroon, White Crossed Sashes, Yellow Armbands And Cap" owners="Mystery Downs (Mgr: F W Cook)" dob="2009-09-11T00:00:00" age="7" sex="M" career="34-6-5-4 $281810.00" thistrack="11-1-2-1 $105750.00" thisdistance="2-0-0-0 $3800.00" goodtrack="24-3-3-1 $203910.00" heavytrack="0-0-0-0" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="7-1-1-1 $28650.00" secondup="7-0-2-1 $25050.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="7" weightvariation="0" variedweight="56" decimalmargin="2.30" penalty="0" pricestarting="$13" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
>     <nomination number="8" saddlecloth="8" horse="Mary Lou" id="172933" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="1" trainernumber="38701" trainersurname="Cummings" trainerfirstname="Anthony" trainertrack="Randwick" rsbtrainername="Anthony Cummings" jockeynumber="86596" jockeysurname="Collett" jockeyfirstname="Jason" barrier="11" weight="54" rating="80" description="B M 5 Fastnet Rock x Miss Alabama(NZ) (Woodman(USA))" colours="Red, Black Diagonal Stripes And Armbands, Quartered Cap" owners="E-Thoroughbred (Mgr: A W &amp; M G Bott) &amp; Evergreen Rich (Mgr: A W Bott, P K Siu, M Siu &amp; E Siu)" dob="2010-09-18T00:00:00" age="6" sex="M" career="18-3-3-4 $156860.00" thistrack="3-1-0-1 $33375.00" thisdistance="1-1-0-0 $17250.00" goodtrack="14-3-2-4 $130335.00" heavytrack="2-0-0-0 $525.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="3-1-0-0 $31125.00" secondup="3-0-1-2 $25100.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="8" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="2.70" penalty="0" pricestarting="$18" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
>     <nomination number="9" saddlecloth="9" horse="Skyline Blush" id="182533" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="1" trainernumber="38701" trainersurname="Cummings" trainerfirstname="Anthony" trainertrack="Randwick" rsbtrainername="Anthony Cummings" jockeynumber="1472" jockeysurname="McEvoy" jockeyfirstname="Kerrin" barrier="4" weight="54" rating="80" description="B M 4 Northern Meteor x Cara Y Cruz(USA) (King of Kings(IRE))" colours="Red, Black Stripes" owners="Gooree Stud (E M Cojuangco &amp; M C Cummings)" dob="2011-10-29T00:00:00" age="5" sex="M" career="14-5-0-2 $204190.00" thistrack="4-1-0-1 $52225.00" thisdistance="2-1-0-1 $41375.00" goodtrack="7-0-0-1 $19535.00" heavytrack="4-2-0-1 $111125.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="3-1-0-0 $21125.00" secondup="3-0-0-1 $12460.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="9" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="3.10" penalty="0" pricestarting="$9.50" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
>     <nomination number="5" saddlecloth="5" horse="All Cerise" id="171801" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="681" trainersurname="Waller" trainerfirstname="Chris" trainertrack="Rosehill" rsbtrainername="Chris Waller" jockeynumber="86721" jockeysurname="Dunn" jockeyfirstname="Dwayne" barrier="3" weight="54" rating="92" description="B M 5 Redoute's Choice x Trick Taker(USA) (Capote(USA))" colours="Purple, White Hoops, Black Seams, Purple And White Quartered Cap" owners="Woppitt Bloodstock (Mgr: Mrs D N Kepitis)" dob="2010-11-05T00:00:00" age="6" sex="M" career="28-6-3-3 $349890.00" thistrack="10-1-1-1 $111750.00" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="21-6-2-3 $327690.00" heavytrack="2-0-0-0 $450.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="7-1-0-2 $45790.00" secondup="4-1-0-0 $71200.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="10" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="4.10" penalty="0" pricestarting="$6" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
>     <nomination number="1" saddlecloth="1" horse="Gust of Wind (NZ)" id="181079" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="1" trainernumber="41655" trainersurname="Sargent" trainerfirstname="John" trainertrack="Randwick" rsbtrainername="John Sargent" jockeynumber="84015" jockeysurname="Avdulla" jockeyfirstname="Brenton" barrier="2" weight="59" rating="106" description="B M 4 Darci Brahma(NZ) x Starrystarrynight(IRE) (Sadler's Wells(USA))" colours="Yellow, White Checked Sash, Checked Sleeves And Cap" owners="Go Bloodstock (Mgr: Sir O G Glenn)" dob="2011-09-07T00:00:00" age="5" sex="M" career="12-3-0-0 $974900.00" thistrack="0-0-0-0" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="10-2-0-0 $279150.00" heavytrack="0-0-0-0" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="4-1-0-0 $8900.00" secondup="3-1-0-0 $20250.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="11" weightvariation="0" variedweight="59" decimalmargin="7.40" penalty="0" pricestarting="$15" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
>   </race>
> </meeting>
> 
> If I do this
> 
> 
> nomID = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
> horseName = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
> print(nomID, horseName)
> 
> comes out correctly
> 
> In [7]: 171115 Vergara
> 
> Since I will be taking another 10 attributes out of nominmation category an efficient way that ensures data integrity would be valued.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Sayth

Also if I create it as an iterable only the first list in the list is printed.

group = [nomID, horseName]

iterthis = iter(group)

for items in iterthis:
    print(items)

In [10]: ['Vergara', 'Heavens Above', 'Sweet Fire', 'Alegria', 'Piamimi', 'Blendwell', 'Adorabeel (NZ)', 'Mary Lou', 'Skyline Blush', 'All Cerise', 'Gust of Wind (NZ)']
['Vergara', 'Heavens Above', 'Sweet Fire', 'Alegria', 'Piamimi', 'Blendwell', 'Adorabeel (NZ)', 'Mary Lou', 'Skyline Blush', 'All Cerise', 'Gust of Wind (NZ)']

Sayth


From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 23:13:08 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 20:13:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What iterable method should I use for Lists of Lists
In-Reply-To: <b90ac09a-7ab1-48cd-a966-f66f8f0376fa@googlegroups.com>
References: <67c4c88b-62e9-4275-a761-25e5d7114025@googlegroups.com>
 <b90ac09a-7ab1-48cd-a966-f66f8f0376fa@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0a8c3fd1-ca01-4a62-b2fb-10fd841cde74@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, 18 April 2016 12:12:59 UTC+10, Sayth Renshaw  wrote:
> On Monday, 18 April 2016 12:05:39 UTC+10, Sayth Renshaw  wrote:
> > Hi
> > 
> > I have an XML and using pyquery to obtain the elements within it and then write it to csv.
> > 
> > What is the best most reliable way to take dictionaries of each element, and print them(csv write later) based on each position so get item 0 of each list and then it 1 and so on.
> > 
> > Any other code I post is open to criticism. Because there are many attributes I will want to collect my thought is to create a list of lists, again seems a bit clunky so could be wrong.
> > 
> > from pyquery import PyQuery as pq
> > 
> > 
> > d = pq(filename='20160319RHIL0_edit.xml')
> > res = d('nomination')
> > # myAt = pq.each(res.attr('bbid'))
> > # print(repr(res))
> > # myAt = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
> > # print(myAt)
> > 
> > nomID = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
> > horseName = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
> > group = [nomID, horseName]
> > 
> > for items in group:
> >     print(items)
> > 
> > 
> > This is my source.
> > 
> > <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
> > <meeting id="42736" barriertrial="0" venue="Rosehill Gardens" date="2016-03-19T00:00:00" gearchanges="-1" stewardsreport="-1" gearlist="-1" racebook="0" postracestewards="0" meetingtype="TAB" rail="Timing - Electronic : Rail - +2m" weather="Fine      " trackcondition="Good" nomsdeadline="2016-03-14T11:00:00" weightsdeadline="2016-03-15T16:00:00" acceptdeadline="2016-03-16T09:00:00" jockeydeadline="2016-03-16T12:00:00">
> >   <club abbrevname="Australian Turf Club" code="56398" associationclass="1" website="http://" />
> >   <race id="213262" number="1" nomnumber="7" division="0" name="NATHAN'S FAMOUS EPONA STAKES" mediumname="EPONA" shortname="EPONA STAKES" stage="Results" distance="1900" minweight="0" raisedweight="0" class="~         " age="3U        " grade="0" weightcondition="SWP       " trophy="1000" owner="1000" trainer="0" jockey="0" strapper="0" totalprize="150000" first="90000" second="30000" third="15000" fourth="7500" fifth="3000" time="2016-03-19T12:40:00" bonustype="          " nomsfee="0" acceptfee="0" trackcondition="Good      " timingmethod="Electronic" fastesttime="1-56.83   " sectionaltime="600/35.3  " formavailable="0" racebookprize="Of $150000 and trophies of $1000. First $90000 and trophies of $1000 to owner, second $30000, third $15000, fourth $7500, fifth $3000, sixth $1500, seventh $1500, eighth $1500">
> >     <condition line="1">Of $150000 and trophies of $1000. First $90000 and trophies of $1000 to owner, second $30000, third $15000, fourth $7500, fifth $3000, sixth $1500, seventh $1500, eighth $1500</condition>
> >     <condition line="3">No class restriction, Set Weights plus Penalties, For Three-Years-Old and Upwards, Fillies and Mares, (Group 3)</condition>
> >     <condition line="5">No Allowances for apprentices. Field Limit: 14 + 4 EM</condition>
> >     <nomination number="4" saddlecloth="4" horse="Vergara" id="171115" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="1" trainernumber="38701" trainersurname="Cummings" trainerfirstname="Anthony" trainertrack="Randwick" rsbtrainername="Anthony Cummings" jockeynumber="86876" jockeysurname="McDonald" jockeyfirstname="James" barrier="7" weight="55" rating="93" description="B M 5 Snippetson x Graces Spirit (Flying Spur)" colours="Yellow, Red Epaulettes And Cap" owners="Anthony Cummings Thoroughbreds Pty Ltd Syndicate (Mgrs: A &amp; B Cummings) &amp; P C Racing Investments Syndicate (Mgr: P J Carroll)  " dob="2010-10-07T00:00:00" age="6" sex="M" career="30-7-4-2 $295445.00" thistrack="6-1-1-0 $90500.00" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="17-3-2-2 $101440.00" heavytrack="5-0-1-0 $20200.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="7-2-1-2 $108340.00" secondup="7-1-1-0 $43200.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="1" weightvariation="0" variedweight="55" decimalmargin="0.00" penalty="0" pricestarting="$12" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
> >     <nomination number="2" saddlecloth="2" horse="Heavens Above" id="187674" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="736" trainersurname="Martin" trainerfirstname="Tim" trainertrack="Rosehill" rsbtrainername="Tim Martin" jockeynumber="46930" jockeysurname="Angland" jockeyfirstname="Tye" barrier="6" weight="56" rating="88" description="B M 4 Street Cry(IRE) x Reggie(NZ) (Germano(GB))" colours="Yellow, Green Chevrons, Striped Cap" owners="President Bloodstock Pty Ltd (Mgr: R C Kemister)" dob="2011-08-12T00:00:00" age="5" sex="M" career="12-3-3-4 $271520.00" thistrack="4-0-3-0 $41425.00" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="10-2-2-4 $214845.00" heavytrack="0-0-0-0" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="2-0-1-1 $20710.00" secondup="2-0-2-0 $24675.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="2" weightvariation="0" variedweight="56" decimalmargin="0.20" penalty="0" pricestarting="$3.80F" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
> >     <nomination number="6" saddlecloth="6" horse="Sweet Fire" id="184732" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="681" trainersurname="Waller" trainerfirstname="Chris" trainertrack="Rosehill" rsbtrainername="Chris Waller" jockeynumber="51661" jockeysurname="Berry" jockeyfirstname="Tommy" barrier="5" weight="54" rating="85" description="BR M 4 Shamardal(USA) x Zarinia(IRE) (Intikhab(USA))" colours="Lilac And White Halves, Black Cap" owners="E J Lucas " dob="2011-09-25T00:00:00" age="5" sex="M" career="15-4-2-2 $212750.00" thistrack="6-1-1-1 $56690.00" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="9-2-1-2 $120395.00" heavytrack="1-0-0-0 $450.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="3-0-0-0 $1900.00" secondup="3-1-1-0 $42200.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="3" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="0.50" penalty="0" pricestarting="$7" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
> >     <nomination number="7" saddlecloth="7" horse="Alegria" id="181928" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="1" trainernumber="235" trainersurname="O'Shea" trainerfirstname="John" trainertrack="Agnes Banks/Hawkesbury" rsbtrainername="John O'Shea" jockeynumber="40275" jockeysurname="Clark" jockeyfirstname="Tim" barrier="1" weight="54" rating="81" description="B M 4 Medaglia D'oro(USA) x Pure Joy (Fusaichi Pegasus(USA))" colours="Royal Blue" owners="Godolphin" dob="2011-10-06T00:00:00" age="5" sex="M" career="12-3-1-5 $216850.00" thistrack="4-1-0-2 $89600.00" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="5-1-1-3 $87575.00" heavytrack="4-2-0-1 $114275.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="3-2-0-1 $80500.00" secondup="3-0-0-2 $20850.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="4" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="0.70" penalty="0" pricestarting="$8.50" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
> >     <nomination number="11" saddlecloth="11" horse="Piamimi" id="158914" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="773" trainersurname="Bennett" trainerfirstname="Greg" trainertrack="Scone" rsbtrainername="Greg Bennett" jockeynumber="48503" jockeysurname="Williams" jockeyfirstname="Craig" barrier="8" weight="54" rating="75" description="B OR BR M 6 Not a Single Doubt x Blurrta(NZ) (Bahhare(USA))" colours="Yellow, Dark Blue Diamonds, Striped Sleeves And Cap" owners="Dr M Wylie, K Kenny, J Canning, M Mcfayden, B Hyde &amp; P Toubji " dob="2009-08-23T00:00:00" age="7" sex="M" career="35-6-4-3 $170275.00" thistrack="2-0-0-0 $5150.00" thisdistance="2-0-0-0 $900.00" goodtrack="25-3-2-2 $78640.00" heavytrack="4-1-1-1 $24510.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="8-1-3-0 $27375.00" secondup="8-1-0-2 $32645.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="5" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="1.10" penalty="0" pricestarting="$41" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
> >     <nomination number="10" saddlecloth="10" horse="Blendwell" id="171408" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="78024" trainersurname="Moody" trainerfirstname="Peter G" trainertrack="Warwick Farm" rsbtrainername="Peter G Moody" jockeynumber="85036" jockeysurname="Lane" jockeyfirstname="Damian" barrier="10" weight="54" rating="78" description="B M 5 Hard Spun(USA) x Bridie Belle(NZ) (Al Akbar)" colours="Tartan, Red Sash And Armbands" owners="D &amp; M Esplin Pty Ltd (Mgr: Mrs M E Esplin)" dob="2010-10-06T00:00:00" age="6" sex="M" career="17-4-3-4 $107845.00" thistrack="0-0-0-0" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="8-0-1-2 $25135.00" heavytrack="2-2-0-0 $42000.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="6-0-0-3 $8835.00" secondup="3-1-0-1 $20050.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="6" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="1.20" penalty="0" pricestarting="$17" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
> >     <nomination number="3" saddlecloth="3" horse="Adorabeel (NZ)" id="166836" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="1942" trainersurname="Pride" trainerfirstname="Joseph" trainertrack="Warwick Farm" rsbtrainername="Joseph Pride" jockeynumber="86280" jockeysurname="Clipperton" jockeyfirstname="Sam" barrier="9" weight="56" rating="86" description="BR OR BLK M 6 Savabeel x Plaza Doree(FR) (Saumarez(GB))" colours="Maroon, White Crossed Sashes, Yellow Armbands And Cap" owners="Mystery Downs (Mgr: F W Cook)" dob="2009-09-11T00:00:00" age="7" sex="M" career="34-6-5-4 $281810.00" thistrack="11-1-2-1 $105750.00" thisdistance="2-0-0-0 $3800.00" goodtrack="24-3-3-1 $203910.00" heavytrack="0-0-0-0" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="7-1-1-1 $28650.00" secondup="7-0-2-1 $25050.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="7" weightvariation="0" variedweight="56" decimalmargin="2.30" penalty="0" pricestarting="$13" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
> >     <nomination number="8" saddlecloth="8" horse="Mary Lou" id="172933" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="1" trainernumber="38701" trainersurname="Cummings" trainerfirstname="Anthony" trainertrack="Randwick" rsbtrainername="Anthony Cummings" jockeynumber="86596" jockeysurname="Collett" jockeyfirstname="Jason" barrier="11" weight="54" rating="80" description="B M 5 Fastnet Rock x Miss Alabama(NZ) (Woodman(USA))" colours="Red, Black Diagonal Stripes And Armbands, Quartered Cap" owners="E-Thoroughbred (Mgr: A W &amp; M G Bott) &amp; Evergreen Rich (Mgr: A W Bott, P K Siu, M Siu &amp; E Siu)" dob="2010-09-18T00:00:00" age="6" sex="M" career="18-3-3-4 $156860.00" thistrack="3-1-0-1 $33375.00" thisdistance="1-1-0-0 $17250.00" goodtrack="14-3-2-4 $130335.00" heavytrack="2-0-0-0 $525.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="3-1-0-0 $31125.00" secondup="3-0-1-2 $25100.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="8" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="2.70" penalty="0" pricestarting="$18" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
> >     <nomination number="9" saddlecloth="9" horse="Skyline Blush" id="182533" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="1" trainernumber="38701" trainersurname="Cummings" trainerfirstname="Anthony" trainertrack="Randwick" rsbtrainername="Anthony Cummings" jockeynumber="1472" jockeysurname="McEvoy" jockeyfirstname="Kerrin" barrier="4" weight="54" rating="80" description="B M 4 Northern Meteor x Cara Y Cruz(USA) (King of Kings(IRE))" colours="Red, Black Stripes" owners="Gooree Stud (E M Cojuangco &amp; M C Cummings)" dob="2011-10-29T00:00:00" age="5" sex="M" career="14-5-0-2 $204190.00" thistrack="4-1-0-1 $52225.00" thisdistance="2-1-0-1 $41375.00" goodtrack="7-0-0-1 $19535.00" heavytrack="4-2-0-1 $111125.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="3-1-0-0 $21125.00" secondup="3-0-0-1 $12460.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="9" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="3.10" penalty="0" pricestarting="$9.50" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
> >     <nomination number="5" saddlecloth="5" horse="All Cerise" id="171801" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="681" trainersurname="Waller" trainerfirstname="Chris" trainertrack="Rosehill" rsbtrainername="Chris Waller" jockeynumber="86721" jockeysurname="Dunn" jockeyfirstname="Dwayne" barrier="3" weight="54" rating="92" description="B M 5 Redoute's Choice x Trick Taker(USA) (Capote(USA))" colours="Purple, White Hoops, Black Seams, Purple And White Quartered Cap" owners="Woppitt Bloodstock (Mgr: Mrs D N Kepitis)" dob="2010-11-05T00:00:00" age="6" sex="M" career="28-6-3-3 $349890.00" thistrack="10-1-1-1 $111750.00" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="21-6-2-3 $327690.00" heavytrack="2-0-0-0 $450.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="7-1-0-2 $45790.00" secondup="4-1-0-0 $71200.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="10" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="4.10" penalty="0" pricestarting="$6" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
> >     <nomination number="1" saddlecloth="1" horse="Gust of Wind (NZ)" id="181079" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="1" trainernumber="41655" trainersurname="Sargent" trainerfirstname="John" trainertrack="Randwick" rsbtrainername="John Sargent" jockeynumber="84015" jockeysurname="Avdulla" jockeyfirstname="Brenton" barrier="2" weight="59" rating="106" description="B M 4 Darci Brahma(NZ) x Starrystarrynight(IRE) (Sadler's Wells(USA))" colours="Yellow, White Checked Sash, Checked Sleeves And Cap" owners="Go Bloodstock (Mgr: Sir O G Glenn)" dob="2011-09-07T00:00:00" age="5" sex="M" career="12-3-0-0 $974900.00" thistrack="0-0-0-0" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="10-2-0-0 $279150.00" heavytrack="0-0-0-0" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="4-1-0-0 $8900.00" secondup="3-1-0-0 $20250.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="11" weightvariation="0" variedweight="59" decimalmargin="7.40" penalty="0" pricestarting="$15" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
> >   </race>
> > </meeting>
> > 
> > If I do this
> > 
> > 
> > nomID = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
> > horseName = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
> > print(nomID, horseName)
> > 
> > comes out correctly
> > 
> > In [7]: 171115 Vergara
> > 
> > Since I will be taking another 10 attributes out of nominmation category an efficient way that ensures data integrity would be valued.
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > Sayth
> 
> Also if I create it as an iterable only the first list in the list is printed.
> 
> group = [nomID, horseName]
> 
> iterthis = iter(group)
> 
> for items in iterthis:
>     print(items)
> 
> In [10]: ['Vergara', 'Heavens Above', 'Sweet Fire', 'Alegria', 'Piamimi', 'Blendwell', 'Adorabeel (NZ)', 'Mary Lou', 'Skyline Blush', 'All Cerise', 'Gust of Wind (NZ)']
> ['Vergara', 'Heavens Above', 'Sweet Fire', 'Alegria', 'Piamimi', 'Blendwell', 'Adorabeel (NZ)', 'Mary Lou', 'Skyline Blush', 'All Cerise', 'Gust of Wind (NZ)']
> 
> Sayth

Think I have a solution of sorts, although my numpy array failed, zip worked.

from pyquery import PyQuery as pq
import numpy as np

d = pq(filename='20160319RHIL0_edit.xml')
res = d('nomination')
# myAt = pq.each(res.attr('bbid'))
# print(repr(res))
# myAt = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
# print(myAt)

nomID = [res.eq(i).attr('id') for i in range(len(res))]
horseName = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
zipped = zip(nomID, horseName)

# yes = np.array(zipped)
for items in zipped:
    print(items)

In [8]: ('171115', 'Vergara')
('187674', 'Heavens Above')
('184732', 'Sweet Fire')
('181928', 'Alegria')
('158914', 'Piamimi')
('171408', 'Blendwell')
('166836', 'Adorabeel (NZ)')
('172933', 'Mary Lou')
('182533', 'Skyline Blush')
('171801', 'All Cerise')
('181079', 'Gust of Wind (NZ)')

Still interested if there is a better to do this.

Sayth


From steve at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 17 23:19:08 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 13:19:08 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8ff10001-1c49-4490-b873-018507243ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmqAN-McpPUxiBRCU75mYxhU6-4_9imvBxQRFVLERBoyFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.89.1460864965.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <04721fe6-5feb-49c8-b5b2-beb12f6ff495@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5714522d$0$1622$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:39 am, Rustom Mody wrote:

> yes we can agree on this -- arbitrary line lengths are almost certainly
> unreadable.
> The problem then becomes so what is optimal?

I really don't think it is a problem. We have about 400 years
of experience with printed text, and that experience tells us
that the optimal width for reading prose in Western languages
is about 60 characters, give or take. This width is optimal
for eye movement, and minimizes the number of errors and 
reduces eye-strain.

There's only so far that our eyes can follow a line to the
right without increasing stress or reading errors, and 
likewise when returning back to the left margin. The longer
the line, the higher the chance of losing track, and the
physical effort it takes to read. (You have to move the eyes
further, and for extremely long lines, you may have to move
your entire head.)

Long lines are simply harder to read because you have to
move your eyes more, and the longer the lines, the greater
the tendency to wander across the lines. Especially if the
lines are close together and the height of the lines is
small. (It boggles my mind how many programmers I've met who
routinely view their code in tiny physical heights, even
when reading it in fine detail.)

The optimal width for eye-tracking (that is, the maximum
width for which the rate of such errors can be disregarded)
is somewhere about sixty characters per line.

The same eye-tracking considerations apply to code, but:

        when it comes to code, we don't always have to track all the
        way back to the left-hand margin. If we start (say) up to 
        twenty columns in, then we can afford to write up to twenty
        columns further to the right too.


(Also, code tends to have VERY ragged right-hand margins.
Not all lines end up even close to sixty characters wide.)

There are other considerations though. Unlike prose, with
code, shorter lines *may* sometimes force an increase in
complexity. For instance, temporary variables need to be
created, or new functions created, just to avoid otherwise
excessively long lines. So one might be willing to accept a
little more eye-movement for a little less code complexity.

So allowing a total width of 80 (give or take) is already a
compromise from the optimal sixty characters. This compromise
allows for indented code, and allows up to 20 characters
extra to avoid creating more complexity elsewhere.


But there's another factor: long lines of code are themselves
a code-smell. Perhaps:

- you have indented too deeply, suggesting that your function
  is doing too much or has too much internal complexity:

  def func():
      if a:
          for b in seq:
              while c:
                  with d:
                      try:
                          try:
                              for e in it:
                                  block  # only 48 columns available here

  (But note also that even with this extreme example, eight
  indentation levels deep, you can still fit almost 
  characters per line without breaking the 80-char limit.
  You can do a lot in 50 characters.)


- you have too many expressions on one line, suggesting that
  the over-all complexity of the line is excessive;

- your variable or function names are needlessly verbose or
  are doing too much or are too specific
  ("calculate_number_of_pages_and_number_of_semicolons_in_chapter_one");

- or you are violating the rule of Demeter:
  get(customer.trousers.pocket.wallet).open().money.pay(1)


In other words, long lines of code are themselves an 
indication of poorly-designed code. Even though there are 
exceptions, we should resist strongly the urge to extend
beyond the 60-80 (or perhaps 90 in extreme cases) limit.
Whenever I hear people saying that they regularly need to
use 100 or even 120 columns for their code, what I hear is
"my code is badly written".



-- 
Steven



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 23:48:58 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 20:48:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <5714522d$0$1622$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8ff10001-1c49-4490-b873-018507243ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmqAN-McpPUxiBRCU75mYxhU6-4_9imvBxQRFVLERBoyFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.89.1460864965.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <04721fe6-5feb-49c8-b5b2-beb12f6ff495@googlegroups.com>
 <5714522d$0$1622$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <b5264346-0aab-4dd0-8be2-259fc0898547@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 8:49:33 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:39 am, Rustom Mody wrote:
> 
> > yes we can agree on this -- arbitrary line lengths are almost certainly
> > unreadable.
> > The problem then becomes so what is optimal?
> 
> I really don't think it is a problem. We have about 400 years
> of experience with printed text, and that experience tells us
> that the optimal width for reading prose in Western languages
> is about 60 characters, give or take. This width is optimal
> for eye movement, and minimizes the number of errors and 
> reduces eye-strain.

No disagreement so far

> 
> There's only so far that our eyes can follow a line to the
> right without increasing stress or reading errors, and 
> likewise when returning back to the left margin. The longer
> the line, the higher the chance of losing track, and the
> physical effort it takes to read. (You have to move the eyes
> further, and for extremely long lines, you may have to move
> your entire head.)
> 
> Long lines are simply harder to read because you have to
> move your eyes more, and the longer the lines, the greater
> the tendency to wander across the lines. Especially if the
> lines are close together and the height of the lines is
> small. (It boggles my mind how many programmers I've met who
> routinely view their code in tiny physical heights, even
> when reading it in fine detail.)
> 
> The optimal width for eye-tracking (that is, the maximum
> width for which the rate of such errors can be disregarded)
> is somewhere about sixty characters per line.

Maybe even this is ok

> 
> The same eye-tracking considerations apply to code

This is nonsense.

The last attempt of making code text-ish was Cobol -- by most accounts an 
unhappy experience.
What is more code needs to be read very intensively for comprehension
"x... what is x where is it defined? (scan backwards) ah there?
Uh no further back... No global..."
My own estimate of increased back-n-forth scanning of code vs plain text is 
probably an order of magnitude ie close to 10 times
Even if I grant that you are twice as good a programmer as I am it will become
5 times.
You would have to be 10 times better than me to equalize to (my) plaintext rate
But if you are that kind of genius you probably speed-read plain text as well.

tl;dr 
1. Different languages -- natural and computer -- have different optimal line lengths.

2. There is very scant data on that.

3. PEP8 style strictures only delay discovery and collection of such data


From torriem at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 23:50:58 2016
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 21:50:58 -0600
Subject: QWERTY was not designed to intentionally slow typists down
In-Reply-To: <57143ac0$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.101.1460162658.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <570876f1$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1460217233.3804713.573755729.61D3FCF2@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.126.1460217236.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <57143ac0$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <571459A2.6050700@gmail.com>

On 04/17/2016 07:39 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Even though QWERTY wasn't designed with touch-typing in mind, it's
> interesting to look at some of the weaknesses of the system. It is almost
> as if it had been designed to make touch-typing as inefficient as
> possible :-) Just consider the home keys. The home keys require the least
> amount of finger or hand movement, and are therefore the fastest to reach.
> With QWERTY, the eight home keys only cover a fraction over a quarter of
> all key presses: ASDF JKL; have frequencies of
> 
> 8.12% 6.28% 4.32% 2.30% 0.10% 0.69% 3.98% and effectively 0%
> 
> making a total of 25.79%. If you also include G and H as "virtual
> home-keys", that rises to 33.74%.
> 
> But that's far less than the obvious tactic of using the most common
> letters ETAOIN as the home keys, which would cover 51.18% just from those
> eight keys alone. The 19th century Blickensderfer typewriter used a similar
> layout, with the ten home keys DHIATENSOR as the home keys. This would
> allow the typist to make just under 74% of all alphabetical key presses
> without moving the hands.

While they Dvorak layout also puts more coverage in the home row, and
also lets the touch typist alternate more equally between the fingers, I
had to quit using it because it just wasn't as comfortable to use with
vi, especially for things like cursor navigation, and I didn't really
want to remap all the keys.  vi is very flexible and I bet there are key
mappings for vi that work better with Dvorak.  Maybe if I try it again
I'll have another look.



From saxri89 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 23:53:13 2016
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (Xristos Xristoou)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 20:53:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: scipy install error,need help its important
Message-ID: <6931c7f5-ffa0-4a8c-86bc-d257f0582c09@googlegroups.com>

guys i have big proplem i want to install scipy
but all time show me error
i have python 2.7 and windows 10
i try to use pip install scipy and i take that error

raise NotFoundError('no lapack/blas resources found')
    numpy.distutils.system_info.NotFoundError: no lapack/blas resources found


Command "C:\Python27\python.exe -u -c "import setuptools, tokenize;__file__='c:\\users\\name\\appdata\\local\\temp\\pip-build-a3fjaf\\scipy\\setup.py';exec(compile(getattr(tokenize, 'open', open)(__file__).read().replace('\r\n', '\n'), __file__, 'exec'))" install --record c:\users\name\appdata\local\temp\pip-pgtkuz-record\install-record.txt --single-version-externally-managed --compile" failed with error code 1 in c:\users\name\appdata\local\temp\pip-build-a3fjaf\scipy\



From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Mon Apr 18 00:04:04 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 21:04:04 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <CAGgTfkOR8e501zFfRXLgv3imVnbL7nBqKNGhc95rJVBPPwEYeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <CAGgTfkOR8e501zFfRXLgv3imVnbL7nBqKNGhc95rJVBPPwEYeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57145CB4.5040100@icloud.com>

On 4/17/2016 3:18 PM, Michael Selik wrote:

> I'd rather turn the question around: how much sanity checking is
> necessary or useful? You'll find the answer is "surprisingly little"
> compared to your experience in Java.

I'm looking for a pythonic approach to sanity checking. From what I read 
elsewhere, sanity checking belongs in the unit tests and/or library 
classes designed for other people to use. I haven't seen many examples 
of sanity checks that is common in Java.

> For example, you don't need to
> explicitly check whether the color is present in your dictionary,
> because it'll give you a KeyError if you look up a bad key.

Without the sanity check against the constant dictionary, the color 
variable could be anything (it should be a string value). Looking at the 
code again, I should relocate the sanity checks in the Piece base class.

> Why does the len of positions need to be 16?

The positions variable is list of coordinates for 16 chess pieces (eight 
pawns, two rooks, two knights, two bishops, a king and a queen) for each 
color, locating the pieces on either the bottom quarter (i.e., [(1,1), 
..., (2,8)]) or the top quarter (i.e., [(7,1), ..., (8,8)]) of the board.

Thanks,

Chris R.


From brunnre8 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 00:05:19 2016
From: brunnre8 at gmail.com (Reto Brunner)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 04:05:19 +0000
Subject: Creating a hot vector (numpy)
In-Reply-To: <nf1aor$kiu$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <nf1aor$kiu$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <CAG8ousQ5y63aCUtZmdA+KuywoDqmazKGB-6fay07k7wHyLxoxA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
It is called broadcasting an array, have a look here:
http://docs.scipy.org/doc/numpy-1.10.1/user/basics.broadcasting.html

Greetings,
Reto

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016, 02:54 Paulo da Silva <p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt>
wrote:

> Hi all.
>
> I have seen this "trick" to create a hot vector.
>
> In [45]: x
> Out[45]: array([0, 1])
>
> In [46]: y
> Out[46]: array([1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0], dtype=uint8)
>
> In [47]: y[:,None]
> Out[47]:
> array([[1],
>        [1],
>        [1],
>        [0],
>        [0],
>        [1],
>        [0],
>        [0]], dtype=uint8)
>
> In [48]: x==y[:,None]
> Out[48]:
> array([[False,  True],
>        [False,  True],
>        [False,  True],
>        [ True, False],
>        [ True, False],
>        [False,  True],
>        [ True, False],
>        [ True, False]], dtype=bool)
>
> In [49]: (x==y[:,None]).astype(np.float32)
> Out[49]:
> array([[ 0.,  1.],
>        [ 0.,  1.],
>        [ 0.,  1.],
>        [ 1.,  0.],
>        [ 1.,  0.],
>        [ 0.,  1.],
>        [ 1.,  0.],
>        [ 1.,  0.]], dtype=float32)
>
> How does this (step 48) work?
>
> Thanks
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 00:06:35 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 21:06:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <nevmtj$kj2$1@dont-email.me>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8ff10001-1c49-4490-b873-018507243ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <nevmtj$kj2$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <91134e90-1cce-471b-9f5a-616276886e84@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 17, 2016 at 3:34:56 PM UTC+5:30, BartC wrote:
> On 17/04/2016 04:44, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 16, 2016 at 10:22:10 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> 
> >> It comes with the maxim that one function must be visible at once on the
> >> screen.
> >
> > Thats a strange self-contradiction.  I wrote this:
> >   http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/layout-imperative-in-functional.html
> > to make the case against PEP8 style line length strictures.
> > Which has the SAME code formatted in two styles:
> >
> > --  < 80 cols, 48 lines
> > --  115 cols 37 lines
> >
> > Clearly the 115 cols is MORE fittable in a page than the 80 cols
> > [Though my argument for that is based on other structural/semantic principles]
> 
> Um, that's a different language, or does PEP8 apply to Haskell too?
> 
> Haskell has a style that likes to be written horizontally (rather than 
> have statements one after another - /on separate lines/ - as in 
> imperative code).
> 
> I also have trouble regarding that code as a single function, as it 
> implements (AFAICS) an entire lexer. It resembles data more than 
> anything else, and data presumably is allowed to be scrolled. 

Thats a nice point ... and often neglected by even the aficionados of functional
programming.
See Data Orientation http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/functional-programming-lost-booty.html
[yeah funny that I am tell you this given your recent famous thread on lexing!]

Come to think of it take an SQL DBMS browser.
Should we say: Horizontal scrolls are BAD; just reformat the table after reaching 80 columns?

In fact much of the point of 
http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/layout-imperative-in-functional.html
is just this: that as code becomes more and more data-ish,
a more-lines-less-columns regime becomes correspondingly irksome.

> Otherwise things would be very restrictive!

Dont understand that comment


From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 00:09:30 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 21:09:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What iterable method should I use for Lists of Lists
In-Reply-To: <0a8c3fd1-ca01-4a62-b2fb-10fd841cde74@googlegroups.com>
References: <67c4c88b-62e9-4275-a761-25e5d7114025@googlegroups.com>
 <b90ac09a-7ab1-48cd-a966-f66f8f0376fa@googlegroups.com>
 <0a8c3fd1-ca01-4a62-b2fb-10fd841cde74@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6e0e6e06-269d-44ab-badc-6f27071d3649@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, 18 April 2016 13:13:21 UTC+10, Sayth Renshaw  wrote:
> On Monday, 18 April 2016 12:12:59 UTC+10, Sayth Renshaw  wrote:
> > On Monday, 18 April 2016 12:05:39 UTC+10, Sayth Renshaw  wrote:
> > > Hi
> > > 
> > > I have an XML and using pyquery to obtain the elements within it and then write it to csv.
> > > 
> > > What is the best most reliable way to take dictionaries of each element, and print them(csv write later) based on each position so get item 0 of each list and then it 1 and so on.
> > > 
> > > Any other code I post is open to criticism. Because there are many attributes I will want to collect my thought is to create a list of lists, again seems a bit clunky so could be wrong.
> > > 
> > > from pyquery import PyQuery as pq
> > > 
> > > 
> > > d = pq(filename='20160319RHIL0_edit.xml')
> > > res = d('nomination')
> > > # myAt = pq.each(res.attr('bbid'))
> > > # print(repr(res))
> > > # myAt = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
> > > # print(myAt)
> > > 
> > > nomID = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
> > > horseName = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
> > > group = [nomID, horseName]
> > > 
> > > for items in group:
> > >     print(items)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > This is my source.
> > > 
> > > <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
> > > <meeting id="42736" barriertrial="0" venue="Rosehill Gardens" date="2016-03-19T00:00:00" gearchanges="-1" stewardsreport="-1" gearlist="-1" racebook="0" postracestewards="0" meetingtype="TAB" rail="Timing - Electronic : Rail - +2m" weather="Fine      " trackcondition="Good" nomsdeadline="2016-03-14T11:00:00" weightsdeadline="2016-03-15T16:00:00" acceptdeadline="2016-03-16T09:00:00" jockeydeadline="2016-03-16T12:00:00">
> > >   <club abbrevname="Australian Turf Club" code="56398" associationclass="1" website="http://" />
> > >   <race id="213262" number="1" nomnumber="7" division="0" name="NATHAN'S FAMOUS EPONA STAKES" mediumname="EPONA" shortname="EPONA STAKES" stage="Results" distance="1900" minweight="0" raisedweight="0" class="~         " age="3U        " grade="0" weightcondition="SWP       " trophy="1000" owner="1000" trainer="0" jockey="0" strapper="0" totalprize="150000" first="90000" second="30000" third="15000" fourth="7500" fifth="3000" time="2016-03-19T12:40:00" bonustype="          " nomsfee="0" acceptfee="0" trackcondition="Good      " timingmethod="Electronic" fastesttime="1-56.83   " sectionaltime="600/35.3  " formavailable="0" racebookprize="Of $150000 and trophies of $1000. First $90000 and trophies of $1000 to owner, second $30000, third $15000, fourth $7500, fifth $3000, sixth $1500, seventh $1500, eighth $1500">
> > >     <condition line="1">Of $150000 and trophies of $1000. First $90000 and trophies of $1000 to owner, second $30000, third $15000, fourth $7500, fifth $3000, sixth $1500, seventh $1500, eighth $1500</condition>
> > >     <condition line="3">No class restriction, Set Weights plus Penalties, For Three-Years-Old and Upwards, Fillies and Mares, (Group 3)</condition>
> > >     <condition line="5">No Allowances for apprentices. Field Limit: 14 + 4 EM</condition>
> > >     <nomination number="4" saddlecloth="4" horse="Vergara" id="171115" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="1" trainernumber="38701" trainersurname="Cummings" trainerfirstname="Anthony" trainertrack="Randwick" rsbtrainername="Anthony Cummings" jockeynumber="86876" jockeysurname="McDonald" jockeyfirstname="James" barrier="7" weight="55" rating="93" description="B M 5 Snippetson x Graces Spirit (Flying Spur)" colours="Yellow, Red Epaulettes And Cap" owners="Anthony Cummings Thoroughbreds Pty Ltd Syndicate (Mgrs: A &amp; B Cummings) &amp; P C Racing Investments Syndicate (Mgr: P J Carroll)  " dob="2010-10-07T00:00:00" age="6" sex="M" career="30-7-4-2 $295445.00" thistrack="6-1-1-0 $90500.00" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="17-3-2-2 $101440.00" heavytrack="5-0-1-0 $20200.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="7-2-1-2 $108340.00" secondup="7-1-1-0 $43200.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="1" weightvariation="0" variedweight="55" decimalmargin="0.00" penalty="0" pricestarting="$12" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
> > >     <nomination number="2" saddlecloth="2" horse="Heavens Above" id="187674" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="736" trainersurname="Martin" trainerfirstname="Tim" trainertrack="Rosehill" rsbtrainername="Tim Martin" jockeynumber="46930" jockeysurname="Angland" jockeyfirstname="Tye" barrier="6" weight="56" rating="88" description="B M 4 Street Cry(IRE) x Reggie(NZ) (Germano(GB))" colours="Yellow, Green Chevrons, Striped Cap" owners="President Bloodstock Pty Ltd (Mgr: R C Kemister)" dob="2011-08-12T00:00:00" age="5" sex="M" career="12-3-3-4 $271520.00" thistrack="4-0-3-0 $41425.00" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="10-2-2-4 $214845.00" heavytrack="0-0-0-0" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="2-0-1-1 $20710.00" secondup="2-0-2-0 $24675.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="2" weightvariation="0" variedweight="56" decimalmargin="0.20" penalty="0" pricestarting="$3.80F" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
> > >     <nomination number="6" saddlecloth="6" horse="Sweet Fire" id="184732" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="681" trainersurname="Waller" trainerfirstname="Chris" trainertrack="Rosehill" rsbtrainername="Chris Waller" jockeynumber="51661" jockeysurname="Berry" jockeyfirstname="Tommy" barrier="5" weight="54" rating="85" description="BR M 4 Shamardal(USA) x Zarinia(IRE) (Intikhab(USA))" colours="Lilac And White Halves, Black Cap" owners="E J Lucas " dob="2011-09-25T00:00:00" age="5" sex="M" career="15-4-2-2 $212750.00" thistrack="6-1-1-1 $56690.00" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="9-2-1-2 $120395.00" heavytrack="1-0-0-0 $450.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="3-0-0-0 $1900.00" secondup="3-1-1-0 $42200.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="3" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="0.50" penalty="0" pricestarting="$7" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
> > >     <nomination number="7" saddlecloth="7" horse="Alegria" id="181928" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="1" trainernumber="235" trainersurname="O'Shea" trainerfirstname="John" trainertrack="Agnes Banks/Hawkesbury" rsbtrainername="John O'Shea" jockeynumber="40275" jockeysurname="Clark" jockeyfirstname="Tim" barrier="1" weight="54" rating="81" description="B M 4 Medaglia D'oro(USA) x Pure Joy (Fusaichi Pegasus(USA))" colours="Royal Blue" owners="Godolphin" dob="2011-10-06T00:00:00" age="5" sex="M" career="12-3-1-5 $216850.00" thistrack="4-1-0-2 $89600.00" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="5-1-1-3 $87575.00" heavytrack="4-2-0-1 $114275.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="3-2-0-1 $80500.00" secondup="3-0-0-2 $20850.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="4" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="0.70" penalty="0" pricestarting="$8.50" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
> > >     <nomination number="11" saddlecloth="11" horse="Piamimi" id="158914" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="773" trainersurname="Bennett" trainerfirstname="Greg" trainertrack="Scone" rsbtrainername="Greg Bennett" jockeynumber="48503" jockeysurname="Williams" jockeyfirstname="Craig" barrier="8" weight="54" rating="75" description="B OR BR M 6 Not a Single Doubt x Blurrta(NZ) (Bahhare(USA))" colours="Yellow, Dark Blue Diamonds, Striped Sleeves And Cap" owners="Dr M Wylie, K Kenny, J Canning, M Mcfayden, B Hyde &amp; P Toubji " dob="2009-08-23T00:00:00" age="7" sex="M" career="35-6-4-3 $170275.00" thistrack="2-0-0-0 $5150.00" thisdistance="2-0-0-0 $900.00" goodtrack="25-3-2-2 $78640.00" heavytrack="4-1-1-1 $24510.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="8-1-3-0 $27375.00" secondup="8-1-0-2 $32645.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="5" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="1.10" penalty="0" pricestarting="$41" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
> > >     <nomination number="10" saddlecloth="10" horse="Blendwell" id="171408" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="78024" trainersurname="Moody" trainerfirstname="Peter G" trainertrack="Warwick Farm" rsbtrainername="Peter G Moody" jockeynumber="85036" jockeysurname="Lane" jockeyfirstname="Damian" barrier="10" weight="54" rating="78" description="B M 5 Hard Spun(USA) x Bridie Belle(NZ) (Al Akbar)" colours="Tartan, Red Sash And Armbands" owners="D &amp; M Esplin Pty Ltd (Mgr: Mrs M E Esplin)" dob="2010-10-06T00:00:00" age="6" sex="M" career="17-4-3-4 $107845.00" thistrack="0-0-0-0" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="8-0-1-2 $25135.00" heavytrack="2-2-0-0 $42000.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="6-0-0-3 $8835.00" secondup="3-1-0-1 $20050.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="6" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="1.20" penalty="0" pricestarting="$17" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
> > >     <nomination number="3" saddlecloth="3" horse="Adorabeel (NZ)" id="166836" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="1942" trainersurname="Pride" trainerfirstname="Joseph" trainertrack="Warwick Farm" rsbtrainername="Joseph Pride" jockeynumber="86280" jockeysurname="Clipperton" jockeyfirstname="Sam" barrier="9" weight="56" rating="86" description="BR OR BLK M 6 Savabeel x Plaza Doree(FR) (Saumarez(GB))" colours="Maroon, White Crossed Sashes, Yellow Armbands And Cap" owners="Mystery Downs (Mgr: F W Cook)" dob="2009-09-11T00:00:00" age="7" sex="M" career="34-6-5-4 $281810.00" thistrack="11-1-2-1 $105750.00" thisdistance="2-0-0-0 $3800.00" goodtrack="24-3-3-1 $203910.00" heavytrack="0-0-0-0" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="7-1-1-1 $28650.00" secondup="7-0-2-1 $25050.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="7" weightvariation="0" variedweight="56" decimalmargin="2.30" penalty="0" pricestarting="$13" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
> > >     <nomination number="8" saddlecloth="8" horse="Mary Lou" id="172933" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="1" trainernumber="38701" trainersurname="Cummings" trainerfirstname="Anthony" trainertrack="Randwick" rsbtrainername="Anthony Cummings" jockeynumber="86596" jockeysurname="Collett" jockeyfirstname="Jason" barrier="11" weight="54" rating="80" description="B M 5 Fastnet Rock x Miss Alabama(NZ) (Woodman(USA))" colours="Red, Black Diagonal Stripes And Armbands, Quartered Cap" owners="E-Thoroughbred (Mgr: A W &amp; M G Bott) &amp; Evergreen Rich (Mgr: A W Bott, P K Siu, M Siu &amp; E Siu)" dob="2010-09-18T00:00:00" age="6" sex="M" career="18-3-3-4 $156860.00" thistrack="3-1-0-1 $33375.00" thisdistance="1-1-0-0 $17250.00" goodtrack="14-3-2-4 $130335.00" heavytrack="2-0-0-0 $525.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="3-1-0-0 $31125.00" secondup="3-0-1-2 $25100.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="8" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="2.70" penalty="0" pricestarting="$18" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
> > >     <nomination number="9" saddlecloth="9" horse="Skyline Blush" id="182533" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="1" trainernumber="38701" trainersurname="Cummings" trainerfirstname="Anthony" trainertrack="Randwick" rsbtrainername="Anthony Cummings" jockeynumber="1472" jockeysurname="McEvoy" jockeyfirstname="Kerrin" barrier="4" weight="54" rating="80" description="B M 4 Northern Meteor x Cara Y Cruz(USA) (King of Kings(IRE))" colours="Red, Black Stripes" owners="Gooree Stud (E M Cojuangco &amp; M C Cummings)" dob="2011-10-29T00:00:00" age="5" sex="M" career="14-5-0-2 $204190.00" thistrack="4-1-0-1 $52225.00" thisdistance="2-1-0-1 $41375.00" goodtrack="7-0-0-1 $19535.00" heavytrack="4-2-0-1 $111125.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="3-1-0-0 $21125.00" secondup="3-0-0-1 $12460.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="9" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="3.10" penalty="0" pricestarting="$9.50" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
> > >     <nomination number="5" saddlecloth="5" horse="All Cerise" id="171801" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="681" trainersurname="Waller" trainerfirstname="Chris" trainertrack="Rosehill" rsbtrainername="Chris Waller" jockeynumber="86721" jockeysurname="Dunn" jockeyfirstname="Dwayne" barrier="3" weight="54" rating="92" description="B M 5 Redoute's Choice x Trick Taker(USA) (Capote(USA))" colours="Purple, White Hoops, Black Seams, Purple And White Quartered Cap" owners="Woppitt Bloodstock (Mgr: Mrs D N Kepitis)" dob="2010-11-05T00:00:00" age="6" sex="M" career="28-6-3-3 $349890.00" thistrack="10-1-1-1 $111750.00" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="21-6-2-3 $327690.00" heavytrack="2-0-0-0 $450.00" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="7-1-0-2 $45790.00" secondup="4-1-0-0 $71200.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="10" weightvariation="0" variedweight="54" decimalmargin="4.10" penalty="0" pricestarting="$6" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
> > >     <nomination number="1" saddlecloth="1" horse="Gust of Wind (NZ)" id="181079" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="1" trainernumber="41655" trainersurname="Sargent" trainerfirstname="John" trainertrack="Randwick" rsbtrainername="John Sargent" jockeynumber="84015" jockeysurname="Avdulla" jockeyfirstname="Brenton" barrier="2" weight="59" rating="106" description="B M 4 Darci Brahma(NZ) x Starrystarrynight(IRE) (Sadler's Wells(USA))" colours="Yellow, White Checked Sash, Checked Sleeves And Cap" owners="Go Bloodstock (Mgr: Sir O G Glenn)" dob="2011-09-07T00:00:00" age="5" sex="M" career="12-3-0-0 $974900.00" thistrack="0-0-0-0" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="10-2-0-0 $279150.00" heavytrack="0-0-0-0" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="4-1-0-0 $8900.00" secondup="3-1-0-0 $20250.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="11" weightvariation="0" variedweight="59" decimalmargin="7.40" penalty="0" pricestarting="$15" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />
> > >   </race>
> > > </meeting>
> > > 
> > > If I do this
> > > 
> > > 
> > > nomID = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
> > > horseName = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
> > > print(nomID, horseName)
> > > 
> > > comes out correctly
> > > 
> > > In [7]: 171115 Vergara
> > > 
> > > Since I will be taking another 10 attributes out of nominmation category an efficient way that ensures data integrity would be valued.
> > > 
> > > Thanks
> > > 
> > > Sayth
> > 
> > Also if I create it as an iterable only the first list in the list is printed.
> > 
> > group = [nomID, horseName]
> > 
> > iterthis = iter(group)
> > 
> > for items in iterthis:
> >     print(items)
> > 
> > In [10]: ['Vergara', 'Heavens Above', 'Sweet Fire', 'Alegria', 'Piamimi', 'Blendwell', 'Adorabeel (NZ)', 'Mary Lou', 'Skyline Blush', 'All Cerise', 'Gust of Wind (NZ)']
> > ['Vergara', 'Heavens Above', 'Sweet Fire', 'Alegria', 'Piamimi', 'Blendwell', 'Adorabeel (NZ)', 'Mary Lou', 'Skyline Blush', 'All Cerise', 'Gust of Wind (NZ)']
> > 
> > Sayth
> 
> Think I have a solution of sorts, although my numpy array failed, zip worked.
> 
> from pyquery import PyQuery as pq
> import numpy as np
> 
> d = pq(filename='20160319RHIL0_edit.xml')
> res = d('nomination')
> # myAt = pq.each(res.attr('bbid'))
> # print(repr(res))
> # myAt = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
> # print(myAt)
> 
> nomID = [res.eq(i).attr('id') for i in range(len(res))]
> horseName = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
> zipped = zip(nomID, horseName)
> 
> # yes = np.array(zipped)
> for items in zipped:
>     print(items)
> 
> In [8]: ('171115', 'Vergara')
> ('187674', 'Heavens Above')
> ('184732', 'Sweet Fire')
> ('181928', 'Alegria')
> ('158914', 'Piamimi')
> ('171408', 'Blendwell')
> ('166836', 'Adorabeel (NZ)')
> ('172933', 'Mary Lou')
> ('182533', 'Skyline Blush')
> ('171801', 'All Cerise')
> ('181079', 'Gust of Wind (NZ)')
> 
> Still interested if there is a better to do this.
> 
> Sayth

Using zip and Pandas I can get it into a good format easily, yay python.

from pyquery import PyQuery as pq
import pandas as pd

d = pq(filename='20160319RHIL0_edit.xml')
res = d('nomination')
nomID = [res.eq(i).attr('id') for i in range(len(res))]
horseName = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
zipped = list(zip(nomID, horseName))

frames = pd.DataFrame(zipped)
print(frames)

         0                  1
0   171115            Vergara
1   187674      Heavens Above
2   184732         Sweet Fire
3   181928            Alegria
4   158914            Piamimi
5   171408          Blendwell
6   166836     Adorabeel (NZ)
7   172933           Mary Lou
8   182533      Skyline Blush
9   171801         All Cerise
10  181079  Gust of Wind (NZ)

Sayth


From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 00:11:52 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 21:11:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: scipy install error,need help its important
In-Reply-To: <6931c7f5-ffa0-4a8c-86bc-d257f0582c09@googlegroups.com>
References: <6931c7f5-ffa0-4a8c-86bc-d257f0582c09@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f1b2ebb-a5aa-446a-83ad-436cc986d747@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, 18 April 2016 13:53:30 UTC+10, Xristos Xristoou  wrote:
> guys i have big proplem i want to install scipy
> but all time show me error
> i have python 2.7 and windows 10
> i try to use pip install scipy and i take that error
> 
> raise NotFoundError('no lapack/blas resources found')
>     numpy.distutils.system_info.NotFoundError: no lapack/blas resources found
> 
> 
> Command "C:\Python27\python.exe -u -c "import setuptools, tokenize;__file__='c:\\users\\name\\appdata\\local\\temp\\pip-build-a3fjaf\\scipy\\setup.py';exec(compile(getattr(tokenize, 'open', open)(__file__).read().replace('\r\n', '\n'), __file__, 'exec'))" install --record c:\users\name\appdata\local\temp\pip-pgtkuz-record\install-record.txt --single-version-externally-managed --compile" failed with error code 1 in c:\users\name\appdata\local\temp\pip-build-a3fjaf\scipy\

Either install and use anaconda

https://www.continuum.io/downloads

or use these builds to install.

http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/

Cheers

Sayth


From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 00:13:06 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 21:13:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: scipy install error,need help its important
In-Reply-To: <6931c7f5-ffa0-4a8c-86bc-d257f0582c09@googlegroups.com>
References: <6931c7f5-ffa0-4a8c-86bc-d257f0582c09@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <12eb1f0c-4e28-472d-926d-2497ebb747d3@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, 18 April 2016 13:53:30 UTC+10, Xristos Xristoou  wrote:
> guys i have big proplem i want to install scipy
> but all time show me error
> i have python 2.7 and windows 10
> i try to use pip install scipy and i take that error
> 
> raise NotFoundError('no lapack/blas resources found')
>     numpy.distutils.system_info.NotFoundError: no lapack/blas resources found
> 
> 
> Command "C:\Python27\python.exe -u -c "import setuptools, tokenize;__file__='c:\\users\\name\\appdata\\local\\temp\\pip-build-a3fjaf\\scipy\\setup.py';exec(compile(getattr(tokenize, 'open', open)(__file__).read().replace('\r\n', '\n'), __file__, 'exec'))" install --record c:\users\name\appdata\local\temp\pip-pgtkuz-record\install-record.txt --single-version-externally-managed --compile" failed with error code 1 in c:\users\name\appdata\local\temp\pip-build-a3fjaf\scipy\

Oh and I would choose the anaconda route. Then you can use conda to easy manage libraries that could otherwise be dificult on windows.

Sayth


From saxri89 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 00:21:31 2016
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (Xristos Xristoou)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 21:21:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: scipy install error,need help its important
In-Reply-To: <6931c7f5-ffa0-4a8c-86bc-d257f0582c09@googlegroups.com>
References: <6931c7f5-ffa0-4a8c-86bc-d257f0582c09@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d7fd91fa-12e8-4589-b32d-88825d6dee5f@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 18 ???????? 2016 - 6:53:30 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Xristos Xristoou ??????:
after google search to many post propose install  lapack and atla
bt=ut i dont know


> guys i have big proplem i want to install scipy
> but all time show me error
> i have python 2.7 and windows 10
> i try to use pip install scipy and i take that error
> 
> raise NotFoundError('no lapack/blas resources found')
>     numpy.distutils.system_info.NotFoundError: no lapack/blas resources found
> 
> 
> Command "C:\Python27\python.exe -u -c "import setuptools, tokenize;__file__='c:\\users\\name\\appdata\\local\\temp\\pip-build-a3fjaf\\scipy\\setup.py';exec(compile(getattr(tokenize, 'open', open)(__file__).read().replace('\r\n', '\n'), __file__, 'exec'))" install --record c:\users\name\appdata\local\temp\pip-pgtkuz-record\install-record.txt --single-version-externally-managed --compile" failed with error code 1 in c:\users\name\appdata\local\temp\pip-build-a3fjaf\scipy\


From saxri89 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 00:38:00 2016
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (Xristos Xristoou)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 21:38:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: scipy install error,need help its important
In-Reply-To: <6931c7f5-ffa0-4a8c-86bc-d257f0582c09@googlegroups.com>
References: <6931c7f5-ffa0-4a8c-86bc-d257f0582c09@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <18152623-df1a-4da3-8b93-30672a7281f3@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 18 ???????? 2016 - 6:53:30 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Xristos Xristoou ??????:
> guys i have big proplem i want to install scipy
> but all time show me error
> i have python 2.7 and windows 10
> i try to use pip install scipy and i take that error
> 
> raise NotFoundError('no lapack/blas resources found')
>     numpy.distutils.system_info.NotFoundError: no lapack/blas resources found
> 
> 
> Command "C:\Python27\python.exe -u -c "import setuptools, tokenize;__file__='c:\\users\\name\\appdata\\local\\temp\\pip-build-a3fjaf\\scipy\\setup.py';exec(compile(getattr(tokenize, 'open', open)(__file__).read().replace('\r\n', '\n'), __file__, 'exec'))" install --record c:\users\name\appdata\local\temp\pip-pgtkuz-record\install-record.txt --single-version-externally-managed --compile" failed with error code 1 in c:\users\name\appdata\local\temp\pip-build-a3fjaf\scipy\

i fllow you with anaconda route and i install scipy without error
but in the idle i write import scipy and show me erroe msg no module name scipy,why ?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 00:40:43 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 14:40:43 +1000
Subject: What iterable method should I use for Lists of Lists
In-Reply-To: <6e0e6e06-269d-44ab-badc-6f27071d3649@googlegroups.com>
References: <67c4c88b-62e9-4275-a761-25e5d7114025@googlegroups.com>
 <b90ac09a-7ab1-48cd-a966-f66f8f0376fa@googlegroups.com>
 <0a8c3fd1-ca01-4a62-b2fb-10fd841cde74@googlegroups.com>
 <6e0e6e06-269d-44ab-badc-6f27071d3649@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpT4f2ONajUGCQB4gUKPV2MJfYcF3MDuwo-E5jKfWTOkw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 2:09 PM, Sayth Renshaw <flebber.crue at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >     <nomination number="2" saddlecloth="2" horse="Heavens Above" id="187674" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="736" trainersurname="Martin" trainerfirstname="Tim" trainertrack="Rosehill" rsbtrainername="Tim Martin" jockeynumber="46930" jockeysurname="Angland" jockeyfirstname="Tye" barrier="6" weight="56" rating="88" description="B M 4 Street Cry(IRE) x Reggie(NZ) (Germano(GB))" colours="Yellow, Green Chevrons, Striped Cap" owners="President Bloodstock Pty Ltd (Mgr: R C Kemister)" dob="2011-08-12T00:00:00" age="5" sex="M" career="12-3-3-4 $271520.00" thistrack="4-0-3-0 $41425.00" thisdistance="0-0-0-0" goodtrack="10-2-2-4 $214845.00" heavytrack="0-0-0-0" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="2-0-1-1 $20710.00" secondup="2-0-2-0 $24675.00" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="2" weightvariation="0" variedweight="56" decimalmargin="0.20" penalty="0" pricestarting="$3.80F" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800
>  ="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />

You're getting very chatty with yourself, which is fine... but do you
need to quote your entire previous message every time? We really don't
need another copy of your XML file in every post.

Thanks!

ChrisA


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Apr 18 01:26:21 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 22:26:21 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <57146FFD.4090204@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/17/2016 12:34 PM, Christopher Reimer wrote:

> How much sanity checking is too much in Python?

What happens if your extensive sanity checks turn up a bug?

In Python the usual answer is you raise an error:

     raise ValueError('blahblah not a valid color')

What happens if you don't sanity check anything and the wrong color is 
passed in?

Python will raise an error for you:

Traceback
   ...
KeyError: 'blahblah' not found

---

I sanity check for three reasons:

1) raise a nicer error message

2) keep the point of failure close to the error

3) the consequences of bad data are Bad Bad Things (tm)

If none of those apply, I don't bother sanity checking.

--
~Ethan~



From marko at pacujo.net  Mon Apr 18 01:32:07 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 08:32:07 +0300
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk> <57140947.3050902@gmail.com>
 <1460939260.3483225.581520729.146827C9@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.125.1460939269.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <57143f8b$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87r3e34h48.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:

> On Mon, 18 Apr 2016 10:27 am, Random832 wrote:
>
>> As an alternative, when you send them through can you put a note on
>> the bottom saying they're not subscribed, to remind people to CC them
>> in responses?
>
> That doesn't work so well from Usenet. I can reply via news (which
> definitely works), or I can reply via email (which may or may not
> work), but it is a pain to reply via *both*.

I don't like the Usenet+CC approach, but let's try it.

Did you get the CC, Steven.


Marko


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Apr 18 01:39:19 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 01:39:19 -0400
Subject: HTTPServer and SSL
In-Reply-To: <CAPtibM5OMNAvxVN1WPdnGEG3HsXODKq0ZkKKEYxvooetCAhKBg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPtibM5OMNAvxVN1WPdnGEG3HsXODKq0ZkKKEYxvooetCAhKBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <nf1rvb$n40$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/17/2016 10:56 AM, Radek Hol? wrote:
> Hello,
>
> some people recommend following implementation of a simple HTTP server
> that supports SSL:
>
> asdfghjkki
> Handler = http.server.BaseHTTPRequestHandlerhttpd =
> http.server.HTTPServer(("", 4443), Handler)
> httpd.socket = ssl.wrap_socket(httpd.socket, server_side=True)
> httpd.serve_forever()
>
> I wonder whether this usage is *supported* or not. The documentation
> is not explicit about whether the httpd.socket attribute can be safely
> reassigned. Also there were some questions regarding a simple HTTPS
> server on this list already and none of the answerers mentioned this
> approach.
>
> Also there used to be a HTTPSServer in the test suite of Python 2.7 in
> 2014 that did a similar thing but in the "get_request" method but it
> isn't there anymore.
>
> So, is there a *supported* way of combining http.server.HTTPServer and ssl?
>
> Best regards
>


-- 
Terry Jan Reedy




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Apr 18 01:51:55 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 01:51:55 -0400
Subject: HTTPServer and SSL
In-Reply-To: <nf1rvb$n40$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CAPtibM5OMNAvxVN1WPdnGEG3HsXODKq0ZkKKEYxvooetCAhKBg@mail.gmail.com>
 <nf1rvb$n40$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <nf1smv$4l3$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/18/2016 1:39 AM, Terry Reedy wrote:

My apologies for the tired, twitchy finger junk post that I noticed 1/2 
second after clicking the wrong button and I wish I oould delete.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From kushal at locationd.net  Mon Apr 18 01:57:53 2016
From: kushal at locationd.net (Kushal Kumaran)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:27:53 +0530
Subject: [OT] Java generics
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrvp0qzwnDhA8oLEwJfTW-JqUvWz8gS_4AYcaR91jLiqw@mail.gmail.com>
 (Chris Angelico's message of "Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:30:56 +1000")
References: <CAN8CLg=_5oBp5ehR_NgfjQcXuM5cWajAVdKT7BytKJ93r13L0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrvp0qzwnDhA8oLEwJfTW-JqUvWz8gS_4AYcaR91jLiqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87potntq5a.fsf@carbon.locationd.net.>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:

> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Tim Delaney
> <timothy.c.delaney at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I also wouldn't describe Java as a
>> "perfectly good language" - it is at best a compromise language that just
>> happened to be heavily promoted and accepted at the right time.
>>
>> Python is *much* closer to my idea of a perfectly good language.
>
> "Java" was originally four related, but separate, concepts: a source
> language, a bytecode, a sandboxing system, and one other that I can't
> now remember.
>
> <snip>

The included standard library.

I read Jamie Zawinski making this distinction in his rant at
https://www.jwz.org/doc/java.html

--
regards,
kushal


From auriocus at gmx.de  Mon Apr 18 02:39:56 2016
From: auriocus at gmx.de (Christian Gollwitzer)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 08:39:56 +0200
Subject: scipy install error,need help its important
In-Reply-To: <18152623-df1a-4da3-8b93-30672a7281f3@googlegroups.com>
References: <6931c7f5-ffa0-4a8c-86bc-d257f0582c09@googlegroups.com>
 <18152623-df1a-4da3-8b93-30672a7281f3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nf1v9i$s6m$1@dont-email.me>

Am 18.04.16 um 06:38 schrieb Xristos Xristoou:
>
> i fllow you with anaconda route and i install scipy without error
> but in the idle i write import scipy and show me erroe msg no module name scipy,why ?
>

Maybe you run IDLE with the python that you had installed before? Try 
looking for IDLE within anaconda. Also read this thread:

https://groups.google.com/a/continuum.io/forum/#!topic/anaconda/Dr8xFdKbA20

	Christian



From harirammanohar at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 03:07:44 2016
From: harirammanohar at gmail.com (harirammanohar at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 00:07:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
Message-ID: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>


HI All, 

can you help me out in doing below. 

file: 
<start> 
 guava 
fruit 
<end> 
<start> 
 mango 
fruit 
<end> 
<start> 
 orange 
fruit 
<end> 

need to delete from start to end if it contains mango in a file...

output should be: 

<start> 
 guava 
fruit 
<end> 
<start> 
 orange 
fruit 
<end> 

Thank you 


From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 03:13:32 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 00:13:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What iterable method should I use for Lists of Lists
In-Reply-To: <mailman.136.1460954452.6324.python-list@python.org>
References: <67c4c88b-62e9-4275-a761-25e5d7114025@googlegroups.com>
 <b90ac09a-7ab1-48cd-a966-f66f8f0376fa@googlegroups.com>
 <0a8c3fd1-ca01-4a62-b2fb-10fd841cde74@googlegroups.com>
 <6e0e6e06-269d-44ab-badc-6f27071d3649@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmpT4f2ONajUGCQB4gUKPV2MJfYcF3MDuwo-E5jKfWTOkw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.136.1460954452.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ad1c98f-a442-4744-8580-f48338282a13@googlegroups.com>


> 
> You're getting very chatty with yourself, which is fine... but do you
> need to quote your entire previous message every time? We really don't
> need another copy of your XML file in every post.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> ChrisA

Oops sorry, everytime I posted I then thought of another resource and kept reading.

I have a working messy solution hopefully I can resolve it to something nicer.

Sayth


From kasddoa at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 03:17:51 2016
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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Apr 18 03:21:58 2016
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 17:21:58 +1000
Subject: QWERTY was not designed to intentionally slow typists down (was:
 Unicode normalisation [was Re: [beginner] What's wrong?])
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.101.1460162658.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <570876f1$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1460217233.3804713.573755729.61D3FCF2@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.126.1460217236.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <57143ac0$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1460944909.3502334.581571497.197404E2@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.131.1460944912.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57148b18$0$11112$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Monday 18 April 2016 12:01, Random832 wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016, at 21:39, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> Oh no, it's the thread that wouldn't die! *wink*
>>
>> Actually, yes it is. At least, according to this website:
>> 
>> http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/Dvorak/history.html
> 
> I'd really rather see an instance of the claim not associated with
> Dvorak marketing. 

So would I, but this is hardly a Dvorak *marketing*. The author even points 
out that the famous case-study done by the US Navy was "biased, and at 
worst, fabricated".

http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/Dvorak/

And he too repeats the canard that "Contrary to popular opinion" QWERTY 
wasn't designed to slow typists down. (Even though he later goes on to 
support the popular opinion.)

You can also read the article in Reason magazine:

http://reason.com/archives/1996/06/01/typing-errors

You can skip the entire first page -- it is almost entirely a screed against 
government regulation and a defence of the all-mighty free-market. But the 
article goes through some fairly compelling evidence that Dvorak keyboards 
are barely more efficient that QWERTY, and that there was plenty of 
competition in type-writers in the late 1800s.

I don't agree with the Reason article that they have disproven the 
conventional wisdom that QWERTY won the typewriter wars due to luck and 
path-dependence. The authors are (in my opinion) overly keen to dismiss 
path-dependence, for instance taking it as self-evidently true that the use 
of QWERTY in the US would have no influence over other countries' choice in 
key layout. But it does support the contention that, at the time, QWERTY was 
faster than the alternatives.

Unfortunately, what it doesn't talk about is whether or not the alternate 
layouts had fewer jams.

Wikipedia's article on QWERTY shows the various designs used by Sholes and 
Remington, leading to the modern layout

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY

One serious problem for discussion is that the QWERTY keyboard we use now is 
*not* the same as that designed by Sholes. For instance, one anomaly is that 
two very common digraphs, ER and RE, are right next to each other. But 
that's not how Sholes laid out the keys. On his keyboard, the top row was 
initially AEI.?Y then changed to QWE.TY. Failure to recognise this leads to 
errors like this blogger's claim that it is "wrong" that QWERTY was designed 
to break apart common digraphs:

http://yasuoka.blogspot.com.au/2006/08/sholes-discovered-that-many-
english.html

Even on a modern keyboard, out of the ten most common digraphs:

th he in er an re nd at on nt

only er/re use consecutive keys, and five out of the ten use alternate 
hands. Move the R back to its original position, and there are none with 
consecutive keys and seven with alternate hands.

> It only holds up as an obvious inference from the
> nature of how typing works if we assume *one*-finger hunt-and-peck
> rather than two-finger.

I don't agree, but neither can I prove it conclusively.


> Your website describes two-finger as the method
> that was being replaced by the 1878 introduction of ten-finger typing.
> 
>> The QWERTY layout was first sold in 1873 while the first known use of
>> ten-fingered typing was in 1878, and touch-typing wasn't invented for
>> another decade, in 1888.
> 
> Two-finger hunt-and-peck is sufficient for placing keys on opposite
> hands to speed typing up rather than slow it down.

Correct, once you take into account jamming. That's the whole point of 
separating the keys. But consider common letter combinations that can be 
typed by the one hand: QWERTY has a significant number of quite long words 
that can be typed with one hand, the *left* hand. That's actually quite 
harmful for both typing speed and accuracy.

Anyway, you seem to have ignored (or perhaps you just have nothing to say) 
my comments about the home keys. It seems clear to me that even with two-
finger typing, a layout that puts ETAOIN on the home keys, such as the 
Blickensderfer typewriter, would minimize the distance travelled by the 
fingers and improve typing speed -- but only so long as the problem of 
jamming was solved.

Interestingly, Wikipedia makes it clear that in the 19th century, the 
problem of jamming arms was already solved by doing away with the arms and 
using a wheel or a ball.



-- 
Steve



From saxri89 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 03:38:12 2016
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (Xristos Xristoou)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 00:38:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: scipy install error,need help its important
In-Reply-To: <6931c7f5-ffa0-4a8c-86bc-d257f0582c09@googlegroups.com>
References: <6931c7f5-ffa0-4a8c-86bc-d257f0582c09@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <69ea7171-f143-44cb-b415-3a3c17f3c88c@googlegroups.com>

?? ???????, 18 ???????? 2016 - 6:53:30 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Xristos Xristoou ??????:
> guys i have big proplem i want to install scipy
> but all time show me error
> i have python 2.7 and windows 10
> i try to use pip install scipy and i take that error
> 
> raise NotFoundError('no lapack/blas resources found')
>     numpy.distutils.system_info.NotFoundError: no lapack/blas resources found
> 
> 
> Command "C:\Python27\python.exe -u -c "import setuptools, tokenize;__file__='c:\\users\\name\\appdata\\local\\temp\\pip-build-a3fjaf\\scipy\\setup.py';exec(compile(getattr(tokenize, 'open', open)(__file__).read().replace('\r\n', '\n'), __file__, 'exec'))" install --record c:\users\name\appdata\local\temp\pip-pgtkuz-record\install-record.txt --single-version-externally-managed --compile" failed with error code 1 in c:\users\name\appdata\local\temp\pip-build-a3fjaf\scipy\

yes i have idle python 2.7 before,must delete first before install anaconda ?how can anaconda packages to run with old idle ?because i have to many packages in old python.


From Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com  Mon Apr 18 03:49:18 2016
From: Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com (Joaquin Alzola)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 07:49:18 +0000
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
In-Reply-To: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR07MB13566CAD4923756F8083F2ACF06B0@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Hi,

Try to use the xml module.

import xml.etree.ElementTree as ET

That might help.

BR

Joaquin

-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+joaquin.alzola=lebara.com at python.org] On Behalf Of harirammanohar at gmail.com
Sent: 18 April 2016 08:08
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match


HI All,

can you help me out in doing below.

file:
<start>
 guava
fruit
<end>
<start>
 mango
fruit
<end>
<start>
 orange
fruit
<end>

need to delete from start to end if it contains mango in a file...

output should be:

<start>
 guava
fruit
<end>
<start>
 orange
fruit
<end>

Thank you
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
This email is confidential and may be subject to privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not copy or disclose its content but contact the sender immediately upon receipt.


From hasandiwan+usenet at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 03:51:01 2016
From: hasandiwan+usenet at gmail.com (Hasan Diwan)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 07:51:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python2.7 win64 --- cannot install the package of scipy
References: <66c616a4-a36f-437e-9ce0-e7694d28af7a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nf23l4$1iie$1@gioia.aioe.org>

On 2016-04-16, ykt2271707491 at gmail.com <ykt2271707491 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I failed to install the package of scipy on Python2.7(win64).

Have you tried anaconda python -- https://3230d63b5fc54e62148e-c95ac804525aac4b6dba79b00b39d1d3.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/Anaconda2-4.0.0-Windows-x86_64.exe


From marko at pacujo.net  Mon Apr 18 04:02:40 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:02:40 +0300
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8ff10001-1c49-4490-b873-018507243ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <877ffw5wjo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <57143eee$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87ega3s5sv.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:

> One technique which is common in Pascal, but less so in Python, is to get
> the best of both worlds by using nested functions. In Python syntax:
>
> def Do_The_Thing():
>     def internal_subpart_start(): ...
>     def internal_subpart_middle(): ...
>     def internal_subpart_end(): ...
>     ...

That really should be done more. C weaned us from the routine Pascal
mechanism, but there's no reason not to exploit it again in Python. It
also solves the problem of lugging the local context between internal
functions, especially now that Python possesses the "nonlocal" keyword.


Marko


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Apr 18 04:32:38 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 20:32:38 +1200
Subject: [OT] Java generics
In-Reply-To: <mailman.118.1460931049.6324.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAN8CLg=_5oBp5ehR_NgfjQcXuM5cWajAVdKT7BytKJ93r13L0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.118.1460931049.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dnjkd8FtsjnU1@mid.individual.net>

> On 17 April 2016 at 23:38, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>The diamond operator in JDK 7 makes this a lot more tolerable, IMO:

The diamond notation helps slightly, but not very much.
What would help a lot more would be something like C's
typedef for giving aliases to type expressions.

It's understandable that Java didn't originally have
a typedef, because all types had short enough names
anyway. But generics changed that in a big way, and
it baffles me that some form of typedef wasn't added
soon afterwards.

-- 
Greg


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Apr 18 04:43:37 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 20:43:37 +1200
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <87ega3s5sv.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>	<CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>	<87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>	<1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>	<CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>	<878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>	<8ff10001-1c49-4490-b873-018507243ea3@googlegroups.com>	<877ffw5wjo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>	<57143eee$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87ega3s5sv.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <dnjl1rFu1i0U1@mid.individual.net>

Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:
> 
>>def Do_The_Thing():
>>    def internal_subpart_start(): ...
>>    def internal_subpart_middle(): ...
>>    def internal_subpart_end(): ...
>>    ...
> 
> That really should be done more. C weaned us from the routine Pascal
> mechanism, but there's no reason not to exploit it again in Python.

Two things Python has that Pascal didn't are modules
and classes. They take care of a lot of the grouping
that you had to rely on nested functions for in
Pascal.

I do find myself nesting functions like that in
Python, but only very occasionally.

-- 
Greg


From harirammanohar at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 04:52:19 2016
From: harirammanohar at gmail.com (harirammanohar at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 01:52:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
In-Reply-To: <mailman.142.1460965767.6324.python-list@python.org>
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <HE1PR07MB13566CAD4923756F8083F2ACF06B0@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <mailman.142.1460965767.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1020e7f0-68ac-48a3-88f0-056f25f49b6c@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 1:19:43 PM UTC+5:30, Joaquin Alzola wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Try to use the xml module.
> 
> import xml.etree.ElementTree as ET
> 
> That might help.
> 
> BR
> 
> Joaquin
> 
> -----Original Message-----

> 
> 
> HI All,
> 
> can you help me out in doing below.
> 
> file:
> <start>
>  guava
> fruit
> <end>
> <start>
>  mango
> fruit
> <end>
> <start>
>  orange
> fruit
> <end>
> 
> need to delete from start to end if it contains mango in a file...
> 
> output should be:
> 
> <start>
>  guava
> fruit
> <end>
> <start>
>  orange
> fruit
> <end>
> 
> Thank you
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> This email is confidential and may be subject to privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not copy or disclose its content but contact the sender immediately upon receipt.

Hi Alzola,

Still any easier way ??


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Apr 18 05:03:56 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 21:03:56 +1200
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <91134e90-1cce-471b-9f5a-616276886e84@googlegroups.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8ff10001-1c49-4490-b873-018507243ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <nevmtj$kj2$1@dont-email.me>
 <91134e90-1cce-471b-9f5a-616276886e84@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dnjm7sFuaseU1@mid.individual.net>

Rustom Mody wrote:
> Come to think of it take an SQL DBMS browser.
> Should we say: Horizontal scrolls are BAD; just reformat the table after reaching 80 columns?

I would say, yes, horizontal scrolling *is* bad in a table --
probably even worse than it is for text or code.

The reason is that tables are usually laid out so that
data items in a row are related to each other. You can't
make sense of a piece of data in the table without seeing
the other items in the same row. That's hard to do if
you can't see the whole row at once.

> In fact much of the point of 
> http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/layout-imperative-in-functional.html
> is just this: that as code becomes more and more data-ish,
> a more-lines-less-columns regime becomes correspondingly irksome.

I draw the opposite conclusion. The more your code is
laid out like a table, the more important it is to be
able to see the whole width of it at once.

Your Haskell lexer example looks all very nice in a
good wide browser window. But reduce it so you can only
see half of it at a time and then tell me how readable
it is.

-- 
Greg


From marko at pacujo.net  Mon Apr 18 05:11:36 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 12:11:36 +0300
Subject: [OT] Java generics
References: <CAN8CLg=_5oBp5ehR_NgfjQcXuM5cWajAVdKT7BytKJ93r13L0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.118.1460931049.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <dnjkd8FtsjnU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <878u0bs2lz.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz>:

> It's understandable that Java didn't originally have a typedef,
> because all types had short enough names anyway. But generics changed
> that in a big way, and it baffles me that some form of typedef wasn't
> added soon afterwards.

Java's opposition to typedef seems to be something fundamental and
philosophical, although I don't exactly understand what.

What people do then is they define classes and interfaces as typedefs,
which is even worse.


Marko


From marko at pacujo.net  Mon Apr 18 05:17:25 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 12:17:25 +0300
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8ff10001-1c49-4490-b873-018507243ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <877ffw5wjo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <57143eee$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87ega3s5sv.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <dnjl1rFu1i0U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <874mazs2ca.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz>:

> Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:
>>
>>>def Do_The_Thing():
>>>    def internal_subpart_start(): ...
>>>    def internal_subpart_middle(): ...
>>>    def internal_subpart_end(): ...
>>>    ...
>>
>> That really should be done more. C weaned us from the routine Pascal
>> mechanism, but there's no reason not to exploit it again in Python.
>
> Two things Python has that Pascal didn't are modules and classes. They
> take care of a lot of the grouping that you had to rely on nested
> functions for in Pascal.

I don't think Pascal did it for grouping or readability but for
conceptual correctness. When I moved from Pascal to C, I felt the
absence of local functions; it was a slight unease about abstraction
leakage.

> I do find myself nesting functions like that in Python, but only very
> occasionally.

Same for me. Essentially, I use local functions to register callbacks.
Decades of C has done that to us.


Marko


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Apr 18 05:17:54 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 21:17:54 +1200
Subject: QWERTY was not designed to intentionally slow typists down
In-Reply-To: <57148b18$0$11112$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <afdd8a6f-06d7-47a7-95fe-b69a48b746f7@googlegroups.com>
 <2796705.edb3E9ArW3@PointedEars.de>
 <d7013402-5d60-4e28-9ed7-92634f43fd1d@googlegroups.com>
 <1584744.4h7ToaqLat@PointedEars.de>
 <5705b9ef$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmnhhaFq3t3U1@mid.individual.net>
 <570748ec$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dmq7lmFgf33U1@mid.individual.net> <874mbcgfmd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <753cdb8b-9f94-48d6-bc0d-589efba86afc@googlegroups.com>
 <tshggb17gitfpufkg8inb8n8aapirfsvmk@4ax.com>
 <8560vr627l.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.101.1460162658.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <570876f1$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1460217233.3804713.573755729.61D3FCF2@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.126.1460217236.2253.python-list@python.org>
 <57143ac0$0$1609$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1460944909.3502334.581571497.197404E2@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.131.1460944912.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <57148b18$0$11112$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <dnjn23F12tU1@mid.individual.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Even on a modern keyboard, out of the ten most common digraphs:
> 
> th he in er an re nd at on nt
> 
> only er/re use consecutive keys,

Also keep in mind that E and R being adjacent on the
keyboard does *not* mean they're adjacent in the type
basket -- they're actually separated by two other
characters (D and C). That's only one less than
I and N (separated by U, J nd M).

-- 
Greg


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 05:19:41 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 10:19:41 +0100
Subject: scipy install error,need help its important
In-Reply-To: <69ea7171-f143-44cb-b415-3a3c17f3c88c@googlegroups.com>
References: <6931c7f5-ffa0-4a8c-86bc-d257f0582c09@googlegroups.com>
 <69ea7171-f143-44cb-b415-3a3c17f3c88c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxTbxBHT58P16ge+9bMXkGXHmAjQdasHqWOPa2G4fQNyOg@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 April 2016 at 08:38, Xristos Xristoou <saxri89 at gmail.com> wrote:
> ?? ???????, 18 ???????? 2016 - 6:53:30 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Xristos Xristoou ??????:
>> guys i have big proplem i want to install scipy
>> but all time show me error
>> i have python 2.7 and windows 10
>> i try to use pip install scipy and i take that error
>>
>> raise NotFoundError('no lapack/blas resources found')
>>     numpy.distutils.system_info.NotFoundError: no lapack/blas resources found
>>
>
> yes i have idle python 2.7 before,must delete first before install anaconda ?how can anaconda packages to run with old idle ?because i have to many packages in old python.

Just install numpy and scipy from here (as already mentioned earlier
in the thread):

http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/

--
Oscar


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 05:26:17 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 10:26:17 +0100
Subject: Python2.7 win64 --- cannot install the package of scipy
In-Reply-To: <66c616a4-a36f-437e-9ce0-e7694d28af7a@googlegroups.com>
References: <66c616a4-a36f-437e-9ce0-e7694d28af7a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxQ1ijbnCQCh4z-uwCNj=3AzSFYHeiYiCQAKo=RzKj15VA@mail.gmail.com>

On 16 April 2016 at 22:53,  <ykt2271707491 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I failed to install the package of scipy on Python2.7(win64).
>
> 1. I tried the direct way that use cmd--pip install scripy. The result shows that it failed with error code 1 in c:\tyk\appdata\local\temp\pip-build-an9fye\scipy\.
>
> 2. I tried to install in another way. I download the scipy-0.17.0-cp27-none-win_amd64.whl from Unofficial Windows Binaries for Python Extension Packages. And use cmd to install that in the Scripts direction, but still failed.(I have installed the package wheel already). The result shows that scipy-0.17.0-cp27-none-win_amd64.whl is not a supported wheel on this platform.

That should be the right wheel if you have 64-bit Python 2.7 on
Windows. Note that it's possible you have 32 bit Python even if the
computer and Windows is 64-bit.

It's also possible that you need to update pip.

--
Oscar


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Apr 18 06:23:05 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 12:23:05 +0200
Subject: What iterable method should I use for Lists of Lists
References: <67c4c88b-62e9-4275-a761-25e5d7114025@googlegroups.com>
 <b90ac09a-7ab1-48cd-a966-f66f8f0376fa@googlegroups.com>
 <0a8c3fd1-ca01-4a62-b2fb-10fd841cde74@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nf2cia$pcn$1@ger.gmane.org>

Sayth Renshaw wrote:

> Think I have a solution of sorts, although my numpy array failed, zip
> worked.
> 
> from pyquery import PyQuery as pq
> import numpy as np
> 
> d = pq(filename='20160319RHIL0_edit.xml')
> res = d('nomination')
> # myAt = pq.each(res.attr('bbid'))
> # print(repr(res))
> # myAt = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
> # print(myAt)
> 
> nomID = [res.eq(i).attr('id') for i in range(len(res))]
> horseName = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
> zipped = zip(nomID, horseName)
> 
> # yes = np.array(zipped)
> for items in zipped:
>     print(items)
> 
> In [8]: ('171115', 'Vergara')
> ('187674', 'Heavens Above')
> ('184732', 'Sweet Fire')
> ('181928', 'Alegria')
> ('158914', 'Piamimi')
> ('171408', 'Blendwell')
> ('166836', 'Adorabeel (NZ)')
> ('172933', 'Mary Lou')
> ('182533', 'Skyline Blush')
> ('171801', 'All Cerise')
> ('181079', 'Gust of Wind (NZ)')
> 
> Still interested if there is a better to do this.

I don't know pyquery, so there may still be better ways. This is how far I 
got with dir() and the common Python wisdom "Never use range(len(...))":

>>> import pyquery
>>> d = pyquery.PyQuery(filename="horse.xml")
>>> pairs = [(n.attrib["horse"], n.attrib["id"]) for n in d("nomination")]
>>> import pprint
>>> pprint.pprint(pairs)
[('Vergara', '171115'),
 ('Heavens Above', '187674'),
 ('Sweet Fire', '184732'),
 ('Alegria', '181928'),
 ('Piamimi', '158914'),
 ('Blendwell', '171408'),
 ('Adorabeel (NZ)', '166836'),
 ('Mary Lou', '172933'),
 ('Skyline Blush', '182533'),
 ('All Cerise', '171801'),
 ('Gust of Wind (NZ)', '181079')]

pprint is not really necessary, it just gives more readable output than

>>> pairs
[('Vergara', '171115'), ('Heavens Above', '187674'), ('Sweet Fire', 
'184732'), ('Alegria', '181928'), ('Piamimi', '158914'), ('Blendwell', 
'171408'), ('Adorabeel (NZ)', '166836'), ('Mary Lou', '172933'), ('Skyline 
Blush', '182533'), ('All Cerise', '171801'), ('Gust of Wind (NZ)', 
'181079')]

To extract more than one attribute operator.itemgetter comes in handy:

>>> from operator import itemgetter
>>> get = itemgetter("horse", "id", "saddlecloth")
>>> pprint.pprint([get(n.attrib) for n in d("nomination")])
[('Vergara', '171115', '4'),
 ('Heavens Above', '187674', '2'),
 ('Sweet Fire', '184732', '6'),
 ('Alegria', '181928', '7'),
 ('Piamimi', '158914', '11'),
 ('Blendwell', '171408', '10'),
 ('Adorabeel (NZ)', '166836', '3'),
 ('Mary Lou', '172933', '8'),
 ('Skyline Blush', '182533', '9'),
 ('All Cerise', '171801', '5'),
 ('Gust of Wind (NZ)', '181079', '1')]

If you need to do some post-processing use a helper function:

>>> def extract(n):
...     attrib = n.attrib
...     id = int(attrib["id"])
...     name = attrib["horse"].upper()
...     return id, name
... 
>>> pprint.pprint([extract(n) for n in d("nomination")])
[(171115, 'VERGARA'),
 (187674, 'HEAVENS ABOVE'),
 (184732, 'SWEET FIRE'),
 (181928, 'ALEGRIA'),
 (158914, 'PIAMIMI'),
 (171408, 'BLENDWELL'),
 (166836, 'ADORABEEL (NZ)'),
 (172933, 'MARY LOU'),
 (182533, 'SKYLINE BLUSH'),
 (171801, 'ALL CERISE'),
 (181079, 'GUST OF WIND (NZ)')]




From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 07:02:45 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 04:02:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to track files processed
Message-ID: <59023020-9464-4fb3-8d9d-c42db593f7ea@googlegroups.com>

Hi

If you are parsing files in a directory what is the best way to record which files were actioned?

So that if i re-parse the directory i only parse the new files in the directory? 

Thanks

Sayth


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 07:07:28 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 04:07:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <dnjm7sFuaseU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8ff10001-1c49-4490-b873-018507243ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <nevmtj$kj2$1@dont-email.me>
 <91134e90-1cce-471b-9f5a-616276886e84@googlegroups.com>
 <dnjm7sFuaseU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <3ca5df02-dfd5-4e1f-8e2f-e7a6d1231987@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 2:34:10 PM UTC+5:30, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Rustom Mody wrote:
> > Come to think of it take an SQL DBMS browser.
> > Should we say: Horizontal scrolls are BAD; just reformat the table after reaching 80 columns?
> 
> I would say, yes, horizontal scrolling *is* bad in a table --
> probably even worse than it is for text or code.
> 
> The reason is that tables are usually laid out so that
> data items in a row are related to each other. You can't
> make sense of a piece of data in the table without seeing
> the other items in the same row. That's hard to do if
> you can't see the whole row at once.

"horizontal scrolling: BAD" + "Need to see whole row at once"
How to reconcile these two? (Think of a 50 column table/spreadsheet)
The only answer I know in DBMS lingo is "normalize" (refactor in programming
lingo)
which one way or other amounts to "Store some of those columns in your head"

Obviously I am not against normalization when it actually cleans up
I am against normalization just to reduce no of columns

> 
> > In fact much of the point of 
> > http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/layout-imperative-in-functional.html
> > is just this: that as code becomes more and more data-ish,
> > a more-lines-less-columns regime becomes correspondingly irksome.
> 
> I draw the opposite conclusion. The more your code is
> laid out like a table, the more important it is to be
> able to see the whole width of it at once.
> 
> Your Haskell lexer example looks all very nice in a
> good wide browser window. But reduce it so you can only
> see half of it at a time and then tell me how readable
> it is.

Horrible.
So what are we (if at all) disagreeing on?



From timothy.c.delaney at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 07:33:30 2016
From: timothy.c.delaney at gmail.com (Tim Delaney)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 21:33:30 +1000
Subject: [OT] Java generics (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated)
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrvp0qzwnDhA8oLEwJfTW-JqUvWz8gS_4AYcaR91jLiqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN8CLg=_5oBp5ehR_NgfjQcXuM5cWajAVdKT7BytKJ93r13L0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrvp0qzwnDhA8oLEwJfTW-JqUvWz8gS_4AYcaR91jLiqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN8CLgn35w4qx=T4YyD8-JProgTOSaq2asuQMWM=3DExDGt=cw@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 April 2016 at 09:30, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Tim Delaney
> <timothy.c.delaney at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I also wouldn't describe Java as a
> > "perfectly good language" - it is at best a compromise language that just
> > happened to be heavily promoted and accepted at the right time.
> >
> > Python is *much* closer to my idea of a perfectly good language.
>
> "Java" was originally four related, but separate, concepts: a source
> language, a bytecode, a sandboxing system, and one other that I can't
> now remember.


I was very specifically referring to Java the language. The JVM is fairly
nice, especially with the recent changes specifically aimed at more easily
supporting dynamic languages.

Speaking of JVM changes - I had to take over support of a chat applet
developed by a contractor built on Java 1.0. We just could not get it to
work reliably (this was for the original Foxtel web site - I remember
trying to keep it up and running while Richard Fidler was doing a promoted
chat session ...). Then Java 1.1 was released and what a huge improvement
that was.

Tim Delaney


From dpalao.python at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 07:35:42 2016
From: dpalao.python at gmail.com (David Palao)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 13:35:42 +0200
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <5714522d$0$1622$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8ff10001-1c49-4490-b873-018507243ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmqAN-McpPUxiBRCU75mYxhU6-4_9imvBxQRFVLERBoyFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.89.1460864965.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <04721fe6-5feb-49c8-b5b2-beb12f6ff495@googlegroups.com>
 <5714522d$0$1622$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAKUKWzmpSrhQyngRCmUKt_HJMhM83nShFFoYboZL+YjB_V8gQA@mail.gmail.com>

2016-04-18 5:19 GMT+02:00 Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:39 am, Rustom Mody wrote:
>
>> yes we can agree on this -- arbitrary line lengths are almost certainly
>> unreadable.
>> The problem then becomes so what is optimal?
>
> I really don't think it is a problem. We have about 400 years
> of experience with printed text, and that experience tells us
> that the optimal width for reading prose in Western languages
> is about 60 characters, give or take. This width is optimal
> for eye movement, and minimizes the number of errors and
> reduces eye-strain.
>
> There's only so far that our eyes can follow a line to the
> right without increasing stress or reading errors, and
> likewise when returning back to the left margin. The longer
> the line, the higher the chance of losing track, and the
> physical effort it takes to read. (You have to move the eyes
> further, and for extremely long lines, you may have to move
> your entire head.)
>
> Long lines are simply harder to read because you have to
> move your eyes more, and the longer the lines, the greater
> the tendency to wander across the lines. Especially if the
> lines are close together and the height of the lines is
> small. (It boggles my mind how many programmers I've met who
> routinely view their code in tiny physical heights, even
> when reading it in fine detail.)
>
> The optimal width for eye-tracking (that is, the maximum
> width for which the rate of such errors can be disregarded)
> is somewhere about sixty characters per line.
>
> The same eye-tracking considerations apply to code, but:
>
>         when it comes to code, we don't always have to track all the
>         way back to the left-hand margin. If we start (say) up to
>         twenty columns in, then we can afford to write up to twenty
>         columns further to the right too.
>
>
> (Also, code tends to have VERY ragged right-hand margins.
> Not all lines end up even close to sixty characters wide.)
>
> There are other considerations though. Unlike prose, with
> code, shorter lines *may* sometimes force an increase in
> complexity. For instance, temporary variables need to be
> created, or new functions created, just to avoid otherwise
> excessively long lines. So one might be willing to accept a
> little more eye-movement for a little less code complexity.
>
> So allowing a total width of 80 (give or take) is already a
> compromise from the optimal sixty characters. This compromise
> allows for indented code, and allows up to 20 characters
> extra to avoid creating more complexity elsewhere.
>
>
> But there's another factor: long lines of code are themselves
> a code-smell. Perhaps:
>
> - you have indented too deeply, suggesting that your function
>   is doing too much or has too much internal complexity:
>
>   def func():
>       if a:
>           for b in seq:
>               while c:
>                   with d:
>                       try:
>                           try:
>                               for e in it:
>                                   block  # only 48 columns available here
>
>   (But note also that even with this extreme example, eight
>   indentation levels deep, you can still fit almost
>   characters per line without breaking the 80-char limit.
>   You can do a lot in 50 characters.)
>
>
> - you have too many expressions on one line, suggesting that
>   the over-all complexity of the line is excessive;
>
> - your variable or function names are needlessly verbose or
>   are doing too much or are too specific
>   ("calculate_number_of_pages_and_number_of_semicolons_in_chapter_one");
>
> - or you are violating the rule of Demeter:
>   get(customer.trousers.pocket.wallet).open().money.pay(1)
>
>
> In other words, long lines of code are themselves an
> indication of poorly-designed code. Even though there are
> exceptions, we should resist strongly the urge to extend
> beyond the 60-80 (or perhaps 90 in extreme cases) limit.
> Whenever I hear people saying that they regularly need to
> use 100 or even 120 columns for their code, what I hear is
> "my code is badly written".
>
>
>
> --
> Steven
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Excellent! Thank you for this contribution.


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Apr 18 08:30:42 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 14:30:42 +0200
Subject: How to track files processed
References: <59023020-9464-4fb3-8d9d-c42db593f7ea@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nf2k1k$kuv$1@ger.gmane.org>

Sayth Renshaw wrote:

> If you are parsing files in a directory what is the best way to record
> which files were actioned?

What do you do with the result of the parsing process? If you write it to 
another file you can just look if that file already exists. If you write it 
to a database there may be a specific record to look for.

> So that if i re-parse the directory i only parse the new files in the
> directory?

Can you give some context? What are you trying to do? Is your application 
running all the time or would you like to invoke it, process new files and 
then terminate?



From info at wingware.com  Mon Apr 18 09:27:17 2016
From: info at wingware.com (Wingware)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:27:17 -0400
Subject: ANN: Wing IDE 5.1.11 released
Message-ID: <5714E0B5.3000402@wingware.com>

Hi,

Wingware has released version 5.1.11 of Wing IDE, our cross-platform 
integrated development environment for the Python programming language.

Wing IDE features a professional code editor with vi, emacs, visual 
studio, and other key bindings, auto-completion, call tips, 
context-sensitive auto-editing, goto-definition, find uses, refactoring, 
a powerful debugger, version control, unit testing, search, project 
management, and many other features.

This release includes the following minor improvements:

     Fix Django template debugging for Django version 1.9 (requires 1.9.3+)
     Fix Debian package dependency for newer Linux distributions
     Fix git status when --use-porcelain is disabled with recent git 
versions
     Correctly find points of use of class attributes
     Added block commenting option for PEP8 style column 0 comment
     Fix analysis of extension modules when using Python 3.5 on Windows
     Sort alphabetically within type in Source Browser when using Sort 
by Type
     Fix problems with extra argument passing to unit test runners
     Several auto-editing fixes
     About 20 other bug fixes

For details see http://wingware.com/news/2016-04-15 and 
http://wingware.com/pub/wingide/5.1.11/CHANGELOG.txt

What's New in Wing 5.1:

Wing IDE 5.1 adds multi-process and child process debugging, syntax 
highlighting in the shells, support for pytest, Find Symbol in Project, 
persistent time-stamped unit test results, auto-conversion of indents on 
paste, an XCode keyboard personality, support for Flask, Django 1.7, 
1.8, and 1.9, Python 3.5 and recent Google App Engine versions, improved 
auto-completion for PyQt, recursive snippet invocation, and many other 
minor features and improvements.

Free trial: http://wingware.com/wingide/trial
Downloads: http://wingware.com/downloads
Feature list: http://wingware.com/wingide/features
Sales: http://wingware.com/store/purchase
Upgrades: https://wingware.com/store/upgrade

Questions?  Don't hesitate to email us at support at wingware.com.

Thanks,

-- 

Stephan Deibel
Wingware | Python IDE

The Intelligent Development Environment for Python Programmers

wingware.com



From sivan at vitakka.co  Mon Apr 18 09:35:25 2016
From: sivan at vitakka.co (Sivan Greenberg)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 16:35:25 +0300
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 8:25 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

> On 4/16/2016 12:58 PM, Larry Martell wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Larry Martell <larry.martell at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> I have worked for many companies where you are required to get a clean
>>>> run of pep8 on your code before your pull request will even be
>>>> considered for approval. I don't agree with this at all, as I think it
>>>> makes the code very ugly, especially enforcing the max line length.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Agh, I was with you until your last remark.
>>>
>>> A max line length of 79 characters is among the *only* rigorous
>>> principles I judge coding style on.
>>>
>>> It comes with the maxim that one function must be visible at once on the
>>> screen.
>>>
>>
>> if we still had 1970's 80 character TTYs that would matter but on my
>> 29" 1920x1080 screen it doesn't.
>>
>
> It depends on whether one prefers to use the extra width to have long
> lines or side-by-side windows.  I prefer the latter.


That's my use case as well, and why I admire the forethought in the width
length. Side by side windows rock when doing TTD.

-Sivan


From barry at python.org  Mon Apr 18 10:05:18 2016
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 10:05:18 -0400
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
In-Reply-To: <57140947.3050902@gmail.com>
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk>
	<57140947.3050902@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160418100518.4f357807@subdivisions.wooz.org>

On Apr 17, 2016, at 06:08 PM, Matt Ruffalo wrote:

>That seems like a reasonable approach, though I think there *really*
>needs to be an option along the lines of "subscribed to the list for the
>purposes of moderation, but not receiving list messages via email".

We can do this effectively in Mailman 2.1 by adding the non-member to
accept_these_nonmembers, and that's fairly easy to do from the admin page.
Mailman 3 will make this more explicit by actually assigning a role of
"nonmember" to the person, so as to be able to more granularly control their
posting privileges.  While we're starting to roll out some Mailman 3 lists, it
will probably be a while before python-list is converted.

Alternatively, individuals can subscribe to a mailing list and then disable
delivery to their address.  This essentially accomplishes the same thing,
although for some lists, posts start out moderated until the person builds
some positive reputation.  Then the admin can turn off their moderation bit
and their posts will go straight through.

Cheers,
-Barry


From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 10:38:00 2016
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 14:38:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk> <57140947.3050902@gmail.com>
 <20160418100518.4f357807@subdivisions.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <nf2rg8$ae6$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2016-04-18, Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:
> On Apr 17, 2016, at 06:08 PM, Matt Ruffalo wrote:
>
>>That seems like a reasonable approach, though I think there *really*
>>needs to be an option along the lines of "subscribed to the list for the
>>purposes of moderation, but not receiving list messages via email".

> Alternatively, individuals can subscribe to a mailing list and then disable
> delivery to their address.

AFAIR, all the mailing lists I've ever joined offer this setting, and
I generally use it (I read all my mailing lists by pointing a NNTP
client at news.gmane.org).  If a mailing list doesn't allow to to
disable delivery, then it's usually pretty trivial to set up a filter
to toss all messages received from that list into /dev/null.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! ... I want to perform
                                  at               cranial activities with
                              gmail.com            Tuesday Weld!!



From p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt  Mon Apr 18 11:38:13 2016
From: p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 16:38:13 +0100
Subject: Creating a hot vector (numpy)
References: <nf1aor$kiu$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <CAG8ousQ5y63aCUtZmdA+KuywoDqmazKGB-6fay07k7wHyLxoxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.134.1460952337.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nf2v10$14co$1@gioia.aioe.org>

?s 05:05 de 18-04-2016, Reto Brunner escreveu:
> Hi,
> It is called broadcasting an array, have a look here:
> http://docs.scipy.org/doc/numpy-1.10.1/user/basics.broadcasting.html
> 
So, there are two broadcasts here.
OK.
Thanks.



From martin at linux-ip.net  Mon Apr 18 13:56:12 2016
From: martin at linux-ip.net (Martin A. Brown)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 10:56:12 -0700
Subject: How to track files processed
In-Reply-To: <59023020-9464-4fb3-8d9d-c42db593f7ea@googlegroups.com>
References: <59023020-9464-4fb3-8d9d-c42db593f7ea@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604180934080.18407@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>


Greetings,

>If you are parsing files in a directory what is the best way to 
>record which files were actioned?
>
>So that if i re-parse the directory i only parse the new files in 
>the directory?

How will you know that the files are new?

If a file has exactly the same content as another file, but a 
different name, is it new?

Often this depends on the characteristics of the system in which 
your (planned) software is operating.

Peter Otten has also asked for some more context, which would help 
us give you some tips that are more targetted to the problem you are 
trying to solve.

But, I'll just forge ahead and make some assumptions:

  * You are watching a directory for new/changed files.
  * New files are appearing regularly.
  * Contents of old files get updated and you want to know.

Have you ever seen an MD5SUMS file?  Do you know what a content hash 
is?  You could find a place to store the content hash (a.k.a. 
digest) of each file that you process.

Below is a program that should work in Python2 and Python3.  You 
could use this sort of approach as part of your solution.  In order 
to make sure you have handled a file before, you should store and 
compare two things.

  1.  The filename.
  2.  The content hash.

Note:  If you are sure the content is not going to change, then just 
use the filename to track whether you have handled something or not.

How would you use this tracking info ?

  * Create a dictionary (or a set), e.g.:

    handled = dict()
    handled[('410c35da37b9a25d9b5d701753b011e5','setup.py')] = time.time()
    
    Lasts only as long as the program runs.  But, you will know
    that you have handled any file by the tuple of its content hash 
    and filename.

  * Store the filename (and/or digest) in a database.  So many 
    options: sqlite, pickle, anydbm, text file of your own 
    crafting, SQLAlchemy ...

  * Create a file, hardlink or symlink in the filesystem (in the 
    same directory or another directory), e.g.:

    trackingfile = os.path.join('another-directory', 'setup.py')
    with open(trackingfile, 'w') as f:
        f.write('410c35da37b9a25d9b5d701753b011e5')
         
      OR
    
    os.symlink('setup.py', '410c35da37b9a25d9b5d701753b011e5-setup.py')

    Now, you can also examine your little cache of handled files to 
    compare for when the content hash changes.  If the system is an 
    automated system, then this can be perfectly fine.  If humans 
    create the files, I would suggest not doing this.  Humans tend 
    to be easily confused by such things (and then want to delete 
    the files or just be intimidated by them; scary hashes!).

There are lots of options, but without some more context, we can 
only make generic suggestions.  So, I'll stop with my generic 
suggestions now.

Have fun and good luck!

-Martin


#! /usr/bin/python

from __future__ import print_function

import os
import sys
import logging
import hashlib

logformat = '%(levelname)-9s %(name)s %(filename)s#%(lineno)s ' \
     + '%(funcName)s %(message)s'
logging.basicConfig(stream=sys.stderr, format=logformat, level=logging.ERROR)
logger = logging.getLogger(__name__)

def hashthatfile(fname):
    contenthash = hashlib.md5()
    try:
        with open(fname, 'rb') as f:
            contenthash.update(f.read())
        return contenthash.hexdigest()
    except IOError as e:
        logger.warning("See exception below; skipping file %s", fname)
        logger.exception(e)
        return None


def main(dirname):
    for fname in os.listdir(dirname):
        if not os.path.isfile(fname):
            logger.debug("Skipping non-file %s", fname)
            continue
        logger.info("Found file %s", fname)
        digest = hashthatfile(fname)
        logger.info("Computed MD5 hash digest %s", digest)
        print('%s %s' % (digest, fname,))
    return os.EX_OK


if __name__ == '__main__':
    if len(sys.argv) == 1:
        sys.exit(main(os.getcwd()))
    else:
        sys.exit(main(sys.argv[1]))

# -- end of file


-- 
Martin A. Brown
http://linux-ip.net/


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Apr 18 15:11:42 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 05:11:42 +1000
Subject: Convert input to upper case on screen as it is typed
References: <85oa9cyiqt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.90.1460604334.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <nen5jj$hvi$1@dont-email.me> <85bn5cy6bz.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <8537qoy49y.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <85zisqratt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> writes:

> Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> writes:
>
> > Okay, ?termios.tcgetattr? will let me preserve the attributes, and
> > with Dan Sommers's suggestion of which attribute to use, I may have
> > a shot at setting the terminal attributes.
>
> This works!

Except, it doesn't. As designed and documented in the Single Unix
Specification <URL:http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/7908799/>,
the behaviour of the OLCUC feature is:

    OLCUC     Map lower case to upper on output. (LEGACY)

    <URL:http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/7908799/xbd/termios.html>

That ominous ?LEGACY? annotation is applied, notably, to all the
case-conversion features of ?termios?.

The mapping is ignorant of Unicode, ignorant of ANSI escape sequences;
it blindly converts bytes via a mapping that assumes all bytes are ASCII
text, regardless of whether those bytes actually represent text.

It breaks the ?visual bell? feature, among others. I end up with garbage
on the screen, that would otherwise have been Unicode text or useful
control sequences.

> I had been hoping that I could simply wrap some stream in a simple
> ?convert what they actually type so it's upper case? text codec,
> without fiddling at such a low operating-system specific level. This
> is rather more esoteric than I had hoped.

And, it turns out, doesn't address the requirements without causing more
problems.

I am still looking for a solution (a Python-specific one would be fine).

-- 
 \           ?Anything that we scientists can do to weaken the hold of |
  `\        religion should be done and may in the end be our greatest |
_o__)                  contribution to civilization.? ?Steven Weinberg |
Ben Finney



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 16:41:44 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 14:41:44 -0600
Subject: [Python-ideas] Changing the meaning of bool.__invert__
In-Reply-To: <CABDEq2mUhLMo2o=HTyxpV=pbPazakHoO-8OjFBLeKVWoZZTz4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <570679AF.7020502@stoneleaf.us>
 <loom.20160407T175706-651@post.gmane.org>
 <57068A10.3020904@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAP7+vJKOXpFwM+=hcZ5V+XG0g6xhEMcLyhs03iH8ii3Ub6mFOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <57069645.8040509@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAP7+vJL88wnao+yEY1esC0iZ6jv1s1HEiWW7uE8Nw3dQVBUvxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CD6766B4-A14B-4AAC-9E79-F43367C9CCB0@selik.org>
 <CAP7+vJKgzA5=RgVkNBVyR8eMOhmxUmmh-uLdqHhzRLD-0-6S2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160408014030.GL12526@ando.pearwood.info>
 <22279.18221.103226.654215@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <20160409154305.GU12526@ando.pearwood.info>
 <CABDEq2mUhLMo2o=HTyxpV=pbPazakHoO-8OjFBLeKVWoZZTz4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnogG3DvUi-eybcete+Zy9KwttyOAeUCyX1nS-m4LJ2kQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 12:24 PM, Pavol Lisy <pavol.lisy at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2016-04-09 17:43 GMT+02:00, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:
>> flag ^ flag is useful since we don't have a boolean-xor operator and
>> bitwise-xor does the right thing for bools. And I suppose some people
>> might prefer & and | over boolean-and and boolean-or because they're
>> shorter and require less typing. I don't think that's a particularly
>> good reason for using them, and as you say, you do have to guard
>> against non-bools slipping, but Consenting Adults applies.
>
> They are also useful if you need to avoid short-circuit evaluation.

One can easily write functions to do that.

    def long_or(a, b):
        """Equivalent to a or b but always evaluates both expressions."""
        return a or b

long_or(a, b) may not be as pretty as a | b, but I'll argue that it's
more readable since it's up-front about its intent, whereas a | b
looks like it could just be a mistake.


From petef4+usenet at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 17:14:02 2016
From: petef4+usenet at gmail.com (Pete Forman)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 22:14:02 +0100
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>

Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font and therefore
specifies the maximum line width as a character count?

An essential part of the language is indentation which ought to continue
to mandate that lines start with a multiple of 4 em worth of space (or
some other size or encode with hard tabs, that is not germane to my
question). The content of the line need not be bound by the rules needed
to position its start.

-- 
Pete Forman


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 17:29:49 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 15:29:49 -0600
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnWQnVZL=nTjQHiVmKqtESsJo18LsML9gEb5my1f9Qoxg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Pete Forman <petef4+usenet at gmail.com> wrote:
> Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font and therefore
> specifies the maximum line width as a character count?
>
> An essential part of the language is indentation which ought to continue
> to mandate that lines start with a multiple of 4 em worth of space (or
> some other size or encode with hard tabs, that is not germane to my
> question). The content of the line need not be bound by the rules needed
> to position its start.

How many spaces is "4 em worth"? How would you incorporate that into
the Python compiler or a linter without needing to know what
particular font the programmer is using? What happens when another
programmer reviews the code using a different font and finds that
there is only 3.5em worth of space? Do we descend into Calibri /
Verdana line-length edit wars?


From fillmore_remove at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 18 17:32:29 2016
From: fillmore_remove at hotmail.com (Fillmore)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 17:32:29 -0400
Subject: I have been dealing with Python for a few weeks...
References: <neovqc$1ua9$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <CAO1D73H3zZkn3BEs4PDjGVwDRk_rbTGoGBPFNA3NggHThXKQ2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.0.1460686364.26128.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nf3jpc$83g$1@gioia.aioe.org>

On 04/14/2016 10:12 PM, justin walters wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 1:50 PM, Fillmore <fillmore_remove at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> ...and I'm loving it.
>>
>> Sooo much more elegant than Perl...and so much less going back to the
>> manual to lookup the syntax of simple data structures and operations...
>>
>> REPL is so useful
>>
>> and you guys rock too
>>
>> cheers
>> --
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
> Good to hear you're enjoying it. Out of curiosity, what were you using Perl
> for?
>

I am a programmer by education but have not programmed in years. Sometimes I need to get
my point across to people in my team that something can be done. The fact that I could prototype
in Perl (now Python) certainly makes it harder for others to argue that this or that cannot be done
in (java/PHP) or that it would take a disproportionate amount of time to carry out...

Thanks



From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 17:39:11 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 14:39:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to track files processed
In-Reply-To: <mailman.154.1461002183.6324.python-list@python.org>
References: <59023020-9464-4fb3-8d9d-c42db593f7ea@googlegroups.com>
 <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604180934080.18407@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>
 <mailman.154.1461002183.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7fd5639c-b438-4651-8d0e-74d248b782a6@googlegroups.com>

Thank you Martin and Peter

To clarify Peter at the moment only writing to csv but am wanting to set up an item pipeline to SQL db next.

I will have a go at your examples Martin and see how i go.

Thank you both for taking time to help.

Sayth


From petef4+usenet at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 18:20:09 2016
From: petef4+usenet at gmail.com (Pete Forman)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 23:20:09 +0100
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <CALwzidnWQnVZL=nTjQHiVmKqtESsJo18LsML9gEb5my1f9Qoxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.157.1461015031.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m14may1rvq.fsf@iKarel.lan>

Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> writes:

> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Pete Forman <petef4+usenet at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font and
>> therefore specifies the maximum line width as a character count?
>>
>> An essential part of the language is indentation which ought to
>> continue to mandate that lines start with a multiple of 4 em worth of
>> space (or some other size or encode with hard tabs, that is not
>> germane to my question). The content of the line need not be bound by
>> the rules needed to position its start.
>
> How many spaces is "4 em worth"? How would you incorporate that into
> the Python compiler or a linter without needing to know what
> particular font the programmer is using? What happens when another
> programmer reviews the code using a different font and finds that
> there is only 3.5em worth of space? Do we descend into Calibri /
> Verdana line-length edit wars?

4 em is what PEP 8 implies, with the implicit use of a monospaced font.
I was trying to convey that the mechanics of indentation was not
relevant to my question about why Python and indeed other programming
languages are rarely edited or viewed with proportional fonts. The
programmer, other humans reading the source and the interpreter need to
be able to discern structure by the indentation. It is what follows the
indentation that interests me.

The current Python interpreter will happily digest a combination of
spaces and hard tabs as long as consistency rules are obeyed.

My question was intended to concentrate on the presentation after the
leading whitespace.

-- 
Pete Forman


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Apr 18 18:58:44 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:58:44 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
Message-ID: <85vb3er0bf.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Pete Forman <petef4+usenet at gmail.com> writes:

> Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font

I think you know this isn't true.

> and therefore specifies the maximum line width as a character count?

and that this ?therefore? is not justified by that.

You've seen elsewhere the justification for *having* a maximum line
width (primarily because of limits on human cognition of lines of text).

As for what the limit *is*, it's much better to have an easy-to-apply
and easy-to-measure rule, because consistent application is important
for such a guide.

Counting characters is objectively easy and easily comparable.

-- 
 \         ?I think Western civilization is more enlightened precisely |
  `\     because we have learned how to ignore our religious leaders.? |
_o__)                                                ?Bill Maher, 2003 |
Ben Finney



From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 19:44:09 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 16:44:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why are my files in in my list - os module used with sys argv
Message-ID: <0bce26b1-ad3d-42c4-8f99-08e82d1bce88@googlegroups.com>

Hi

Why would it be that my files are not being found in this script?

from pyquery import PyQuery as pq
import pandas as pd
import os
import sys

if len(sys.argv) == 2:
    print("no params")
    sys.exit(1)

dir = sys.argv[1]
mask = sys.argv[2]

files = os.listdir(dir)

fileResult = filter(lambda x: x.endswith(mask), files)

# d = pq(filename='20160319RHIL0_edit.xml')
data = []

for file in fileResult:
    print(file)

for items in fileResult:
    d = pq(filename=items)
    res = d('nomination')
    attrs = ('id', 'horse')
    data = [[res.eq(i).attr(x) for x in attrs] for i in range(len(res))]

    # from nominations
# res = d('nomination')
# nomID = [res.eq(i).attr('id') for i in range(len(res))]
# horseName = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]

# attrs = ('id', 'horse')

frames = pd.DataFrame(data)
print(frames)


I am running this from the bash prompt as

(pyquery)sayth at sayth-E6410:~/Projects/pyquery$ python jqxml.py samples *.xml

my directory structure

(pyquery)sayth at sayth-E6410:~/Projects/pyquery$ ls -a
.  ..  environment.yml  .git  .gitignore  #jqxml.py#  jqxml.py  samples

and samples contains

(pyquery)sayth at sayth-E6410:~/Projects/pyquery/samples$ ls -a
.   20160319RHIL0_edit.xml  20160409RAND0.xml
..  20160402RAND0.xml       20160416RAND0.xml

yet I get no files out of the print statement.

Ideas?

Sayth



From steve at pearwood.info  Mon Apr 18 20:19:20 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 10:19:20 +1000
Subject: Why are my files in in my list - os module used with sys argv
References: <0bce26b1-ad3d-42c4-8f99-08e82d1bce88@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5715798b$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 09:44 am, Sayth Renshaw wrote:

> Hi
> 
> Why would it be that my files are not being found in this script?

You are calling the script with:

python jqxml.py samples *.xml

This does not do what you think it does: under Linux shells, the glob *.xml
will be expanded by the shell. Fortunately, in your case, you have no files
in the current directory matching the glob *.xml, so it is not expanded and
the arguments your script receives are:


"python jqxml.py"  # not used

"samples"  # dir

"*.xml"  # mask


You then call:

fileResult = filter(lambda x: x.endswith(mask), files)

which looks for file names which end with a literal string (asterisk, dot,
x, m, l) in that order. You have no files that match that string.

At the shell prompt, enter this:

touch samples/junk\*.xml

and run the script again, and you should see that it now matches one file.

Instead, what you should do is:


(1) Use the glob module:

https://docs.python.org/2/library/glob.html
https://docs.python.org/3/library/glob.html

https://pymotw.com/2/glob/
https://pymotw.com/3/glob/


(2) When calling the script, avoid the shell expanding wildcards by escaping
them or quoting them:

python jqxml.py samples "*.xml"



-- 
Steven



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Apr 18 21:17:15 2016
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 02:17:15 +0100
Subject: Why are my files in in my list - os module used with sys argv
In-Reply-To: <0bce26b1-ad3d-42c4-8f99-08e82d1bce88@googlegroups.com>
References: <0bce26b1-ad3d-42c4-8f99-08e82d1bce88@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5715871B.5000003@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-19 00:44, Sayth Renshaw wrote:
> Hi
>
> Why would it be that my files are not being found in this script?
>
> from pyquery import PyQuery as pq
> import pandas as pd
> import os
> import sys
>
> if len(sys.argv) == 2:
>      print("no params")
>      sys.exit(1)
>
> dir = sys.argv[1]
> mask = sys.argv[2]
>
> files = os.listdir(dir)
>
> fileResult = filter(lambda x: x.endswith(mask), files)
>
> # d = pq(filename='20160319RHIL0_edit.xml')
> data = []
>
> for file in fileResult:
>      print(file)
>
> for items in fileResult:
>      d = pq(filename=items)
>      res = d('nomination')
>      attrs = ('id', 'horse')
>      data = [[res.eq(i).attr(x) for x in attrs] for i in range(len(res))]
>
>      # from nominations
> # res = d('nomination')
> # nomID = [res.eq(i).attr('id') for i in range(len(res))]
> # horseName = [res.eq(i).attr('horse') for i in range(len(res))]
>
> # attrs = ('id', 'horse')
>
> frames = pd.DataFrame(data)
> print(frames)
>
>
> I am running this from the bash prompt as
>
> (pyquery)sayth at sayth-E6410:~/Projects/pyquery$ python jqxml.py samples *.xml
>
> my directory structure
>
> (pyquery)sayth at sayth-E6410:~/Projects/pyquery$ ls -a
> .  ..  environment.yml  .git  .gitignore  #jqxml.py#  jqxml.py  samples
>
> and samples contains
>
> (pyquery)sayth at sayth-E6410:~/Projects/pyquery/samples$ ls -a
> .   20160319RHIL0_edit.xml  20160409RAND0.xml
> ..  20160402RAND0.xml       20160416RAND0.xml
>
> yet I get no files out of the print statement.
>
> Ideas?
>
I don't use Linux, but I think it might be a problem with what you have 
on the command line. I believe that Linux expands wildcarded names, so 
what you might be getting is "samples" followed by all the names in the 
current directory that match "*.xml".

Even if that isn't the case, and mask is "*.xml", the filtering that 
you're doing is asking for those names that end with "*.xml"; you might 
find a name that ends with ".xml", but I doubt you'll ever find one that 
ends with "*.xml"!



From sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 21:19:18 2016
From: sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com (sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 18:19:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
Message-ID: <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 2:14:17 PM UTC-7, Pete Forman wrote:
> Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font and therefore
> specifies the maximum line width as a character count?
> 
> An essential part of the language is indentation which ought to continue
> to mandate that lines start with a multiple of 4 em worth of space (or
> some other size or encode with hard tabs, that is not germane to my
> question). The content of the line need not be bound by the rules needed
> to position its start.
> 
> -- 
> Pete Forman

"Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font "

This guy is trolling, right?


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 23:04:06 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 20:04:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 6:49:34 AM UTC+5:30, sohcatoa wrote:
> On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 2:14:17 PM UTC-7, Pete Forman wrote:
> > Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font and therefore
> > specifies the maximum line width as a character count?
> > 
> > An essential part of the language is indentation which ought to continue
> > to mandate that lines start with a multiple of 4 em worth of space (or
> > some other size or encode with hard tabs, that is not germane to my
> > question). The content of the line need not be bound by the rules needed
> > to position its start.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Pete Forman
> 
> "Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font "
> 
> This guy is trolling, right?

See elastic tabstops: http://nickgravgaard.com/elastic-tabstops/

And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest of world has 
moved on is rather backward:
http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/html-is-why-mess-in-programming-syntax.html


From random832 at fastmail.com  Mon Apr 18 23:29:49 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 23:29:49 -0400
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1461036589.1221872.582808913.08A50F70@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016, at 23:04, Rustom Mody wrote:
> See elastic tabstops: http://nickgravgaard.com/elastic-tabstops/

>From there:
>A column block is a run of uninterrupted vertically adjacent cells.

How's that going to handle this case:

if foo:             # comment that is aligned
    do some stuff   # across multiple indent levels

As far as I can tell, the model being proposed would align the indented
code either with the first line's comment, or somewhere after the colon.
I think it's excessively "clever" to think you can or should use the
same model to solve indentation as other forms of alignment.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 23:54:40 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 20:54:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <mailman.160.1461036598.6324.python-list@python.org>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <1461036589.1221872.582808913.08A50F70@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.160.1461036598.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8b3aa2c6-4314-446a-a894-fe61451a373a@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 9:00:12 AM UTC+5:30, Random832 wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016, at 23:04, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > See elastic tabstops: http://nickgravgaard.com/elastic-tabstops/
> 
> >From there:
> >A column block is a run of uninterrupted vertically adjacent cells.
> 
> How's that going to handle this case:
> 
> if foo:             # comment that is aligned
>     do some stuff   # across multiple indent levels

Just tried it with the jar file? he supplies and it seems to work

Start no tabs:
if foo# comment that is aligned
do some stuff# across multiple indent levels 

Add tabs as leading indents with second line indented 1 tab more
(showing tabs as |)
|if foo# comment that is aligned
||do some stuff# across multiple indent levels 

Indent the first comment with 2 tabs
At this point the first comment is/shows lefter than the second

Indent the second with 1 tab -- the two #es now line up

The invariant of course is clear -- if the total no of tabs in the line
prior to the char are equal then all such lines line up

? yeah thats not very secure! And does not work with open java, works with
Sun/Oracle java


From harirammanohar at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 00:01:09 2016
From: harirammanohar at gmail.com (harirammanohar at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 21:01:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
In-Reply-To: <mailman.142.1460965767.6324.python-list@python.org>
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <HE1PR07MB13566CAD4923756F8083F2ACF06B0@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <mailman.142.1460965767.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <670498a7-7033-45e7-b6ac-015d4a40c34e@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 1:19:43 PM UTC+5:30, Joaquin Alzola wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Try to use the xml module.
> 
> import xml.etree.ElementTree as ET
> 
> That might help.
> 
> BR
> 
> Joaquin
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+joaquin.alzola=lebara.com at python.org] On Behalf Of harirammanohar at gmail.com
> Sent: 18 April 2016 08:08
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
> 
> 
> HI All,
> 
> can you help me out in doing below.
> 
> file:
> <start>
>  guava
> fruit
> <end>
> <start>
>  mango
> fruit
> <end>
> <start>
>  orange
> fruit
> <end>
> 
> need to delete from start to end if it contains mango in a file...
> 
> output should be:
> 
> <start>
>  guava
> fruit
> <end>
> <start>
>  orange
> fruit
> <end>
> 
> Thank you
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> This email is confidential and may be subject to privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not copy or disclose its content but contact the sender immediately upon receipt.

hi Alzola,

xml parsing solution works fine only in the below case if input file is in below format.
<data>
<start> 
 guava 
fruit 
<end> 
<start> 
 mango 
fruit 
<end> 
<start> 
 orange 
fruit 
<end> 
</data>

its not working if the input file as below, just a change in the starting header...
<data xmlns="http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee"
  xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
  xsi:schemaLocation="http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee
                      http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee/web-app_3_1.xsd"
  version="3.1">
<start> 
 guava 
fruit 
<end> 
<start> 
 mango 
fruit 
<end> 
<start> 
 orange 
fruit 
<end>
</data>

inthis case its not working.... pls suggest what i have to do to make it work..


From random832 at fastmail.com  Tue Apr 19 00:11:03 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 00:11:03 -0400
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <8b3aa2c6-4314-446a-a894-fe61451a373a@googlegroups.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <1461036589.1221872.582808913.08A50F70@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.160.1461036598.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <8b3aa2c6-4314-446a-a894-fe61451a373a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1461039063.1234620.582832393.7B6F72B6@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016, at 23:54, Rustom Mody wrote:
> Start no tabs:
> if foo# comment that is aligned
> do some stuff# across multiple indent levels 
> 
> Add tabs as leading indents with second line indented 1 tab more
> (showing tabs as |)
> |if foo# comment that is aligned
> ||do some stuff# across multiple indent levels 
>
> Indent the first comment with 2 tabs
> At this point the first comment is/shows lefter than the second
> 
> Indent the second with 1 tab -- the two #es now line up

Yeah but now the second line of code is to the right of the whole first
line of code. "if foo" must have been too short to illustrate it (it's
long enough if a tab is four spaces, but I guess it's longer in the
sample), but I assumed you would get the concept of what I was saying
and try putting something longer there or try extending the comments in
the C code the sample preloads.

Like, it ends up looking like this:

if foo("what if it's a much longer condition"):                # comment
                                                 do something  #
                                                 comment2

There's no way to get this:

if foo("what if it's a much longer condition"):  # comment
    do something                                 # comment2


From blueridiculous at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 00:26:49 2016
From: blueridiculous at gmail.com (BlueRidiculous)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 21:26:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: error with tkinter, help
In-Reply-To: <9cd33690-bb18-446b-9151-aedfd32693ca@googlegroups.com>
References: <47977d70-6208-4e68-aca3-e1f63aacfac7@googlegroups.com>
 <nev3g2$a0m$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.90.1460867418.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <a72a152a-01bc-4128-900d-3e01ed51b1a0@googlegroups.com>
 <9cd33690-bb18-446b-9151-aedfd32693ca@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf796bdd-3801-435c-80cd-10761c9696dc@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 17, 2016 at 10:24:32 AM UTC-7, BlueRidiculous wrote:
> On Sunday, April 17, 2016 at 10:18:09 AM UTC-7, BlueRidiculous wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 16, 2016 at 9:30:39 PM UTC-7, Terry Reedy wrote:
> > > On 4/16/2016 9:31 PM, blueridiculous at gmail.com wrote:
> > > > So I was reading https://wiki.python.org/moin/TkInter for help.
> > >  > I got to step 3 under "Checking your Tkinter support."
> > >  > Nothing happens when I do steps 1 or 2, and when I do step 3,
> > >  > I get this error:
> > > >
> > > > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > > >   File "<string>", line 301, in runcode
> > > >   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in <module>
> > > >   File "C:\Python34\lib\tkinter\__init__.py", line 3882, in _test
> > > >     root = Tk()
> > > >   File "C:\Python34\lib\tkinter\__init__.py", line 1856, in __init__
> > > >     self.tk = _tkinter.create(screenName, baseName, className, interactive, wantobjects, useTk, sync, use)
> > > > _tkinter.TclError: Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following directories:
> > > >     C:/Python34/lib/tcl8.6 C:/lib/tcl8.6 C:/lib/tcl8.6 C:/library C:/library C:/tcl8.6.1/library C:/tcl8.6.1/library
> > > >
> > > > This probably means that Tcl wasn't installed properly.
> > > > "
> > > 
> > > The directory list is obsolete.  You should have C:/Python34/tcl
> > > How did you install Python?  The Windows PSF installer from python.org 
> > > will create this directory unless you uncheck the box to include tcl/tk.
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Terry Jan Reedy
> > 
> > What is a PSF installer? Anyway, I installed the "Windows x86 MSI installer" from https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-344/ Is that correct?
> 
> Actually nevermind, I uninstalled and reinstalled Python and it works now. I remember I uninstalled and reinstalled before, and it worked, then stopped working, so I'm not sure how permanent this fix will be. Stay tuned for updates. Thanks again.

So no need to "stay tuned for updates" anymore, it has been working for a day and I think that it is good now. If ever it breaks again, I'll just start a new thread. You guys can ignore this now. Thanks again to you guys for the help.


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Apr 19 01:39:06 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 17:39:06 +1200
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <mailman.157.1461015031.6324.python-list@python.org>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <CALwzidnWQnVZL=nTjQHiVmKqtESsJo18LsML9gEb5my1f9Qoxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.157.1461015031.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dnlujqFhbe0U1@mid.individual.net>

Ian Kelly wrote:
> What happens when another
> programmer reviews the code using a different font and finds that
> there is only 3.5em worth of space? Do we descend into Calibri /
> Verdana line-length edit wars?

That's easy, we just decree that all Python source
code is to be displayed in this font:

http://fontstruct.com/fontstructions/show/89341/flying_circus

-- 
Greg


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Apr 19 01:46:31 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 17:46:31 +1200
Subject: Convert input to upper case on screen as it is typed
In-Reply-To: <mailman.155.1461006711.6324.python-list@python.org>
References: <85oa9cyiqt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.90.1460604334.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <nen5jj$hvi$1@dont-email.me> <85bn5cy6bz.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <8537qoy49y.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <85zisqratt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.155.1461006711.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dnlv1pFhf8eU1@mid.individual.net>

Ben Finney wrote:
> 
> I am still looking for a solution (a Python-specific one would be fine).
>

The only other way I can think of is to put the tty
into raw mode and do your own line editing and echoing.
You could wrap it all up in a file-like object for the
rest of the code to use.

-- 
Greg


From saxri89 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 02:19:20 2016
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (Xristos Xristoou)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 23:19:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python packages for hydrology and DEM
Message-ID: <06a6bfe3-49c2-48a9-9e95-69359cffdebf@googlegroups.com>

I want to ask for hydrology python packages with complete function to calculate hydrology tasks like fill,flow direction,flow accumulator and more?or how can i find genetic algorithms for to do this tasks to finaly create a complete hydro model with python.

can someone tell me some documentation to do that with python ? i want to find like this TopoToolbox from matlab in python using

also i want to ask and for python psckage for digital elevation models calcultor like idw krigging spline and more...or some documentation for this
or some genetic algorithm for this

ty.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Apr 19 03:07:18 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 17:07:18 +1000
Subject: Python packages for hydrology and DEM
References: <06a6bfe3-49c2-48a9-9e95-69359cffdebf@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <85d1pmqdp5.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Xristos Xristoou <saxri89 at gmail.com> writes:

> I want to ask for hydrology python packages with complete function to
> calculate hydrology tasks like fill,flow direction,flow accumulator
> and more?or how can i find genetic algorithms for to do this tasks to
> finaly create a complete hydro model with python.

I know nothing useful about that problem domain. What I can say is that
the first place to look for Python packages is the Python Package Index.

What is your assessment of the search results for searching ?hydrology?
or ?genetic algorithm? at the Python Package Index?
<URL:https://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&term=hydrology&submit=search>
<URL:https://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&term=genetic+algorithm&submit=search>

-- 
 \          ?It is clear that thought is not free if the profession of |
  `\           certain opinions makes it impossible to earn a living.? |
_o__)  ?Bertrand Russell, _Free Thought and Official Propaganda_, 1928 |
Ben Finney



From petef4+usenet at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 03:34:27 2016
From: petef4+usenet at gmail.com (Pete Forman)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:34:27 +0100
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m1zisqyruk.fsf@iKarel.lan>

Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com> writes:

> On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 6:49:34 AM UTC+5:30, sohcatoa wrote:
>> On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 2:14:17 PM UTC-7, Pete Forman wrote:
>> > Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font and therefore
>> > specifies the maximum line width as a character count?
>> >
>> > An essential part of the language is indentation which ought to continue
>> > to mandate that lines start with a multiple of 4 em worth of space (or
>> > some other size or encode with hard tabs, that is not germane to my
>> > question). The content of the line need not be bound by the rules needed
>> > to position its start.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Pete Forman
>>
>> "Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font "
>>
>> This guy is trolling, right?

No, it is a genuine question. It applies to computer langauges in
general but this thread is about PEP 8 so I framed it for Python.
I was not proposing a change to the langauge.


> See elastic tabstops: http://nickgravgaard.com/elastic-tabstops/

I like that Nick separates out the concept of alignment with implicit
semantics from the n spaces v tabs arguments. My question asks why
monospace is used for the text.

> And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest of
> world has moved on is rather backward:
> http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/html-is-why-mess-in-programming-syntax.html

-- 
Pete Forman


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 04:02:03 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:02:03 +0000
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <57145CB4.5040100@icloud.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <CAGgTfkOR8e501zFfRXLgv3imVnbL7nBqKNGhc95rJVBPPwEYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <57145CB4.5040100@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkM41po9gWS=spn4+imqSczhnJsKdwBjBT0NHYpSW82JoA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 1:05 AM Christopher Reimer <
christopher_reimer at icloud.com> wrote:

> On 4/17/2016 3:18 PM, Michael Selik wrote:
>
> > I'd rather turn the question around: how much sanity checking is
> > necessary or useful? You'll find the answer is "surprisingly little"
> > compared to your experience in Java.
>
> I'm looking for a pythonic approach to sanity checking. From what I read
> elsewhere, sanity checking belongs in the unit tests and/or library
> classes designed for other people to use. I haven't seen many examples
> of sanity checks that is common in Java.
>
> > For example, you don't need to
> > explicitly check whether the color is present in your dictionary,
> > because it'll give you a KeyError if you look up a bad key.
>
> Without the sanity check against the constant dictionary, the color
> variable could be anything (it should be a string value). Looking at the
> code again, I should relocate the sanity checks in the Piece base class.
>

Why relocate rather than remove? What message would you provide that's
better than ``KeyError: 42`` with a traceback that shows exactly which
dictionary is being used and how?

> Why does the len of positions need to be 16?
>
> The positions variable is list of coordinates for 16 chess pieces (eight
> pawns, two rooks, two knights, two bishops, a king and a queen) for each
> color, locating the pieces on either the bottom quarter (i.e., [(1,1),
> ..., (2,8)]) or the top quarter (i.e., [(7,1), ..., (8,8)]) of the board.
>

I meant, what goes wrong if the number of positions input is other than 16?
Without these "sanity" checks, your functions might be reusable in, say, a
checkers game.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Apr 19 04:04:06 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 18:04:06 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <m1zisqyruk.fsf@iKarel.lan>
Message-ID: <858u0aqb2h.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Pete Forman <petef4+usenet at gmail.com> writes:

> My question asks why monospace is used for the text.

Used by whom? Python the programming language (and that includes PEP 8)
has nothing to say about what font you use in your text editor.

-- 
 \      ?Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done |
  `\                                            for me?? ?Groucho Marx |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From marko at pacujo.net  Tue Apr 19 04:09:47 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 11:09:47 +0300
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <m1zisqyruk.fsf@iKarel.lan>
Message-ID: <87wpnuqat0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Pete Forman <petef4+usenet at gmail.com>:

> I like that Nick separates out the concept of alignment with implicit
> semantics from the n spaces v tabs arguments. My question asks why
> monospace is used for the text.

Because the so-called "plain text" is the age-old lowest common
denominator for formal syntax. Python is especially picky about
alignment, but the same de-facto assumption is critical pretty much in
any programming language from Pascal to Go.

Old computer science textbooks presenting algorithms in Algol, Pascal
or, say, process algebra, did use varying-width fonts but they were
typeset manually.

You *could* liberate programming languages from the monospace
stranglehold but then you couldn't effectively use "cat", "vi" or
"firefox" to display Python programs. You probably would need to wrap
the source code in some richer markup like XML and support it specially
in the editors.

Such enrichment would offer advantages. For example, the visual layout
wouldn't necessarily have to be rigid. No more line-length wars (no
lines would ever need to be "continued"). No more TAB wars. Comments
could be displayed as floating bubbles, or maybe you would have to
scratch the screen to see the comment text.

Why, you could even decide on local language variations. How about
braces to delineate blocks in Python? How about translating the keywords
into Japanese? How about setting the Python code right-to-left with
Hebrew keywords?

Now, descending back on earth, I don't believe the advantages of rich
source code will outweigh those of plain text in the foreseeable future.


Marko


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Apr 19 04:16:28 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 10:16:28 +0200
Subject: Why are my files in in my list - os module used with sys argv
References: <0bce26b1-ad3d-42c4-8f99-08e82d1bce88@googlegroups.com>
 <5715798b$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <nf4ph0$6gh$1@ger.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 09:44 am, Sayth Renshaw wrote:
> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> Why would it be that my files are not being found in this script?
> 
> You are calling the script with:
> 
> python jqxml.py samples *.xml
> 
> This does not do what you think it does: under Linux shells, the glob
> *.xml will be expanded by the shell. Fortunately, in your case, you have
> no files in the current directory matching the glob *.xml, so it is not
> expanded and the arguments your script receives are:
> 
> 
> "python jqxml.py"  # not used
> 
> "samples"  # dir
> 
> "*.xml"  # mask
> 
> 
> You then call:
> 
> fileResult = filter(lambda x: x.endswith(mask), files)
> 
> which looks for file names which end with a literal string (asterisk, dot,
> x, m, l) in that order. You have no files that match that string.
> 
> At the shell prompt, enter this:
> 
> touch samples/junk\*.xml
> 
> and run the script again, and you should see that it now matches one file.
> 
> Instead, what you should do is:
> 
> 
> (1) Use the glob module:
> 
> https://docs.python.org/2/library/glob.html
> https://docs.python.org/3/library/glob.html
> 
> https://pymotw.com/2/glob/
> https://pymotw.com/3/glob/
> 
> 
> (2) When calling the script, avoid the shell expanding wildcards by
> escaping them or quoting them:
> 
> python jqxml.py samples "*.xml"

(3) *Use* the expansion mechanism provided by the shell instead of fighting 
it:

$ python jqxml.py samples/*.xml

This requires that you change your script

from pyquery import PyQuery as pq
import pandas as pd
import sys

fileResult = sys.argv[1:]

if not fileResult:
     print("no files specified")
     sys.exit(1)

for file in fileResult:
    print(file)

for items in fileResult:
    try:
        d = pq(filename=items)
    except FileNotFoundError as e:
        print(e)
        continue
    res = d('nomination')
    # you could move the attrs definition before the loop
    attrs = ('id', 'horse')
    # probably a bug: you are overwriting data on every iteration
    data = [[res.eq(i).attr(x) for x in attrs] for i in range(len(res))]

I think this is the most natural approach if you are willing to accept the 
quirk that the script tries to process the file 'samples/*.xml' if the 
samples directory doesn't contain any files with the .xml suffix. Common 
shell tools work that way:

$ ls samples/*.xml
samples/1.xml  samples/2.xml  samples/3.xml
$ ls samples/*.XML
ls: cannot access samples/*.XML: No such file or directory

Unrelated: instead of working with sys.argv directly you could use argparse 
which is part of the standard library. The code to get at least one file is

import argparse

parser = argparse.ArgumentParser()
parser.add_argument("files", nargs="+")
args = parser.parse_args()

print(args.files)

Note that this doesn't fix the shell expansion oddity.




From RasikaSrinivasan at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 04:16:39 2016
From: RasikaSrinivasan at gmail.com (RasikaSrinivasan at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:16:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: building python for qnx 6.5
Message-ID: <3a44eab1-387d-42ea-acb3-4c278806b603@googlegroups.com>

friends

I am interested in python3 for QNX 6.5. Since i have not found a prebuilt distribution, I would like to build it. I wanted to find out how I could use Momentics IDE to build python for different targets. I want to build only for x86 right now but may want to build for the ARM target as well. The IDE is hosted on a windows platform. Momentics is based on eclipse I believe.

any pointers would be deeply appreciated.

thanks, srini



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 04:17:33 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 18:17:33 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <87wpnuqat0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <m1zisqyruk.fsf@iKarel.lan> <87wpnuqat0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqyo1gsLgEUNBPAGrgUPBThzsGtn61arPmhmEKifhuMDA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Now, descending back on earth, I don't believe the advantages of rich
> source code will outweigh those of plain text in the foreseeable future.

No, they will not, because they'll make your code proprietary.
Suddenly *nothing* else will viably work with your code. (And before
you say "but diff tools are fine with XML/JSON/YAML/whatever", it's
not that simple; as soon as the underlying structure is capable of
representing information that doesn't matter to your source code, you
open yourself up to diff noise. I've had this exact problem with
git-managing my OBS configs, which are JSON files; there's one
particular array that's effectively a set, and the file keeps
reordering itself. I had to write a pre-commit script that sorts them
into a consistent order, else I'd have had useless diffs.)

Of course, there's no such thing as "plain text". Encodings will
always bite you. But if you can depend on all files being (a) binary,
(b) UTF-8, or (c) tagged with a coding cookie, it's not too hard to
work with other people's files.

ChrisA


From asimkostas at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 04:39:05 2016
From: asimkostas at gmail.com (asimkon .)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 11:39:05 +0300
Subject: Django - tastypie - jqgrid Wrapper (installation - manual)
Message-ID: <CA+9XG=O4uJyLjfLEimO5Wudc5D2HdV6THZAA0s4B_hfYwaQLcw@mail.gmail.com>

I would like to use the following wrapper
<https://bitbucket.org/migajek/django-tastypie-jqgrid> in one of my Django
models, but unfortunately i do not know how to do it due to the lack of
sufficient information. I run on my machine Djnago 1.9, tastypi via
easy_install, Apache via mod_wsgi and MySQL.
After installing all these i do not know how to proceed step 1, step 2 etc
in order to use the demo code mentioned in the above page and finally work
successfully. Further details about the type of fields and how could be
used in grids.py (additional information) would help me a lot. I found the
author's github page <https://github.com/migajek> but unfortunately there
is contact information to get in touch with him.

If anyone knows so much about it, i would be delighted!

Regards
Kostas Asimakopoulos


From saxri89 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 04:45:46 2016
From: saxri89 at gmail.com (Xristos Xristoou)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:45:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python packages for hydrology and DEM
In-Reply-To: <06a6bfe3-49c2-48a9-9e95-69359cffdebf@googlegroups.com>
References: <06a6bfe3-49c2-48a9-9e95-69359cffdebf@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7ec44c3a-51ff-4c76-b8e4-63f9a36a9f00@googlegroups.com>

?? ?????, 19 ???????? 2016 - 9:19:33 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Xristos Xristoou ??????:
> I want to ask for hydrology python packages with complete function to calculate hydrology tasks like fill,flow direction,flow accumulator and more?or how can i find genetic algorithms for to do this tasks to finaly create a complete hydro model with python.
> 
> can someone tell me some documentation to do that with python ? i want to find like this TopoToolbox from matlab in python using
> 
> also i want to ask and for python psckage for digital elevation models calcultor like idw krigging spline and more...or some documentation for this
> or some genetic algorithm for this
> 
> ty.

all this packages is old and without or low support-documentecion


From sergio.am.spina at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 04:58:09 2016
From: sergio.am.spina at gmail.com (Sergio Spina)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:58:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ReST: link bookmark
In-Reply-To: <c44396d1-2315-4128-9ac5-4d655935d7d0@googlegroups.com>
References: <d2774cf0-7cfb-434f-90eb-e04d8873d9c4@googlegroups.com>
 <c44396d1-2315-4128-9ac5-4d655935d7d0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9d2fb272-ac5d-4c83-908c-86080ea93cb5@googlegroups.com>

Il giorno domenica 17 aprile 2016 12:14:57 UTC+2, Sergio Spina ha scritto:
> Il giorno domenica 17 aprile 2016 12:04:38 UTC+2, Sergio Spina ha scritto:
> > I would know what is the way to implement in ReST a link bookmark like in this example:
> > 
> > > <html>
> > > <body>
> > >
> > > <p>This text stand for an example of text containing
> > > a <a name="B3Pa9-5ZRIx-1">bookmarked target</span> bookmark.</p>
> > >
> > > <p>So let's go all together to visit the bookmarked target
> > > clicking on <a href="#B3Pa9-5ZRIx-1">this link</a>.</p>
> > >
> > > </body>
> > > </html>
> > 
> > The string that is the name of the anchor is produced by an algorithm and 1) cannot be left away and 2) cannot be seen in the printed document.
> > 
> > Thanks.
> 
> The correct example is:
> 
> > <html>
> > <body>
> >
> > <p>This text stand for an example of text containig
> > a <a name="B3Pa9-5ZRIx-1">target</a> bookmark.</p>
> >
> > <p>So let's go all together to visit the target clicking
> > on <a href="#B3Pa9-5ZRIx-1">this link</a>.</p>
> >
> > </body>
> > </html>
> 
> Sorry for the mispelling.

I've tried some experiments looking for a hint:

    # file: test.htm

    <html>
    <body>
    
    <p>This text stand for an example of text containing
    a <a name="B3Pa9-5ZRIx-1">bookmarked target</a> bookmark.</p>
    
    <p>So let's go all together to visit the bookmarked target
    clicking on <a href="#B3Pa9-5ZRIx-1">this link</a>.</p>
    
    </body>
    </html>

First try:

    # test.htm converted at http://www.siafoo.net/html.xml
    
    This text stand for an example of text containig a `target <>`_ bookmark.

    So let's go all together to visit the target clicking on `this
    link <#B3Pa9-5ZRIx-1>`_ .

that is not what I'm looking for;

    # pandoc -f html test.htm -s -o test.rst
    
    This text stand for an example of text containig a target bookmark.
    
    So let's go all together to visit the target clicking on `this
    link <#B3Pa9-5ZRIx-1>`__.

that is not what I'm looking for;

    # html2rst.py taken from http://docutils.sourceforge.net/sandbox/cliechti/html2rst/html2rst.py
    # python html2rst.py test.htm > test.rst
    
    This text stand for an example of text containig a target bookmark.
    
    So let's go all together to visit the target clicking on `this
    link`_.
    
    .. _this link: #B3Pa9-5ZRIx-1

Not a good try.

Is there a better way ?


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Tue Apr 19 05:03:54 2016
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 09:03:54 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.105.1460912283.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <nv2dnTiHKYKNW47KnZ2dnUU7-RudnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <5713E8EA.1080801@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.112.1460922616.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnnhbta5.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>

On 2016-04-17, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
> On 17/04/2016 18:21, Wildman via Python-list wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 17:57:51 +0100, Tim Golden wrote:
>
> [... snip my explanation of new moderation for non-subscribers ...]
>
>> How will this change affect posts to comp.lang.python?
>
> Not at all, in the sense that the moderation doesn't apply to 
> comp.lang.python, except insofar as posts which are sent to the list and 
> which we reject obviously won't make it to comp.lang.python either.

But from what you described, it sounds like all Usenet posts will
now be prevented from reaching the list. If so you should probably
consider rmgrouping comp.lang.python or at least abandoning the
idea of it being linked to the mailing list.

(I've no idea of course if you will even see this message!)


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Tue Apr 19 05:16:53 2016
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 10:16:53 +0100
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
In-Reply-To: <slrnnhbta5.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.105.1460912283.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <nv2dnTiHKYKNW47KnZ2dnUU7-RudnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <5713E8EA.1080801@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.112.1460922616.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnnhbta5.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5715F785.4010005@timgolden.me.uk>

On 19/04/2016 10:03, Jon Ribbens wrote:
> On 2016-04-17, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
>> On 17/04/2016 18:21, Wildman via Python-list wrote:
>>> On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 17:57:51 +0100, Tim Golden wrote:
>>
>> [... snip my explanation of new moderation for non-subscribers ...]
>>
>>> How will this change affect posts to comp.lang.python?
>>
>> Not at all, in the sense that the moderation doesn't apply to
>> comp.lang.python, except insofar as posts which are sent to the list and
>> which we reject obviously won't make it to comp.lang.python either.
>
> But from what you described, it sounds like all Usenet posts will
> now be prevented from reaching the list. If so you should probably
> consider rmgrouping comp.lang.python or at least abandoning the
> idea of it being linked to the mailing list.
>
> (I've no idea of course if you will even see this message!)
>

Well something in my explanation obviously wasn't clear, because that's 
certainly not the case. I'm not even sure which bit gave you that 
impression (please feel free to quote it back at me!).

The Usenet gateway operates distinctly from the Mailman moderation -- in 
fact we have to jump through a hoop or two if we *do* want to moderate 
someone who usually posts via Usenet.

TJG


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Tue Apr 19 06:43:26 2016
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 10:43:26 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.105.1460912283.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <nv2dnTiHKYKNW47KnZ2dnUU7-RudnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <5713E8EA.1080801@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.112.1460922616.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnnhbta5.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <5715F785.4010005@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.6.1461057420.30862.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnnhc34o.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>

On 2016-04-19, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
> On 19/04/2016 10:03, Jon Ribbens wrote:
>> But from what you described, it sounds like all Usenet posts will
>> now be prevented from reaching the list. If so you should probably
>> consider rmgrouping comp.lang.python or at least abandoning the
>> idea of it being linked to the mailing list.
>>
>> (I've no idea of course if you will even see this message!)
>
> Well something in my explanation obviously wasn't clear, because that's 
> certainly not the case. I'm not even sure which bit gave you that 
> impression (please feel free to quote it back at me!).

You said "Our new approach ... will be to reject unsubscribed posts".
Usenet posters are not subscribed to the mailing list, hence their
posts will be be rejected from the list, according to what you said.

> The Usenet gateway operates distinctly from the Mailman moderation -- in 
> fact we have to jump through a hoop or two if we *do* want to moderate 
> someone who usually posts via Usenet.

Are you saying that Usenet posts skip the moderation entirely?

This whole thing seems a bit of a mess. What you really need to be
doing is changing the Usenet group to be moderated, otherwise you're
going to end up with two different views supposedly of the same thing
which in fact may be completely different.


From paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk  Tue Apr 19 06:49:14 2016
From: paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk (Paul Rudin)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 11:49:14 +0100
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
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 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
Message-ID: <86twix3mc5.fsf@rudin.co.uk>

Pete Forman <petef4+usenet at gmail.com> writes:

> Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font and therefore
> specifies the maximum line width as a character count?

Python doesn't require the use of any particular font for editing your
code.

However programmers tend to use fixed width fonts when editing code
because then the visual representation of indentation works
consistently. But that's not a python specific thing.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 07:37:25 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 04:37:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4.1461053856.30862.python-list@python.org>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
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 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
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 <CAPTjJmqyo1gsLgEUNBPAGrgUPBThzsGtn61arPmhmEKifhuMDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.4.1461053856.30862.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <39d27a77-fa74-4d63-b1b6-d612c3905bd4@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 1:47:48 PM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Marko Rauhamaa  wrote:
> > Now, descending back on earth, I don't believe the advantages of rich
> > source code will outweigh those of plain text in the foreseeable future.
> 
> No, they will not, because they'll make your code proprietary.

Pragmatically yes; theoretically no because its like saying
"If one dont want to get locked down to MSWord proprietary tools and formats
one should use latex"
Refuted by the fact that libreoffice and odf etc are free/open


> Suddenly *nothing* else will viably work with your code. (And before
> you say "but diff tools are fine with XML/JSON/YAML/whatever", it's
> not that simple; as soon as the underlying structure is capable of
> representing information that doesn't matter to your source code, you
> open yourself up to diff noise. 

You just nicely described how diff is ?-assed. 
In more detail
here is foo.txt foo1.txt and foo2.txt containing
-------
Now is the time
for all good men
to come to the aid of their country
-------
vi, emacs, shell (cat) show them right and having the same contents
However diff (and therefore unfortunately git) have no clue that one has
DOS line-endings and one is UTF-16

> I've had this exact problem with
> git-managing my OBS configs, which are JSON files; there's one
> particular array that's effectively a set, and the file keeps
> reordering itself. I had to write a pre-commit script that sorts them
> into a consistent order, else I'd have had useless diffs.)

If you are ok with json morphing to yaml you may find ruamel useful
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5121931/in-python-how-can-you-load-yaml-mappings-as-ordereddicts
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/ruamel.yaml


From marko at pacujo.net  Tue Apr 19 07:47:50 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 14:47:50 +0300
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
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 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan> <86twix3mc5.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
Message-ID: <87potlrfa1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Paul Rudin <paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk>:

> Pete Forman <petef4+usenet at gmail.com> writes:
>> Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font and
>> therefore specifies the maximum line width as a character count?
>
> Python doesn't require the use of any particular font for editing your
> code.
>
> However programmers tend to use fixed width fonts when editing code
> because then the visual representation of indentation works
> consistently. But that's not a python specific thing.

Prehistoric programming languages considered uppercase/lowercase
differences insignificant variations. Most modern languages preserve the
distinction and in fact invite us to make a difference between:

   BLACK
   Black
   black

Why stop there?

We need a PEP to distinguish also between:

 - typefaces (Times New Roman vs Garamond)

 - weights (bold vs thin)

 - serifs (with or without)

 - sizes (8pt vs 11pt)

 - colors (goldenrod vs maroon)


Think of all the lesser programming languages that would seem so
20th-century when Python takes this step -- which virtually every
self-respecting web site has already taken in their style sheets!


Marko


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 08:06:18 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 05:06:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <87potlrfa1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <86twix3mc5.fsf@rudin.co.uk> <87potlrfa1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <899a2469-3627-468f-8591-9cf95f17e1e8@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 5:18:07 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Paul Rudin :
> 
> > Pete Forman  writes:
> >> Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font and
> >> therefore specifies the maximum line width as a character count?
> >
> > Python doesn't require the use of any particular font for editing your
> > code.
> >
> > However programmers tend to use fixed width fonts when editing code
> > because then the visual representation of indentation works
> > consistently. But that's not a python specific thing.
> 
> Prehistoric programming languages considered uppercase/lowercase
> differences insignificant variations. Most modern languages preserve the
> distinction and in fact invite us to make a difference between:
> 
>    BLACK
>    Black
>    black
> 
> Why stop there?
> 
> We need a PEP to distinguish also between:
> 
>  - typefaces (Times New Roman vs Garamond)
> 
>  - weights (bold vs thin)
> 
>  - serifs (with or without)
> 
>  - sizes (8pt vs 11pt)
> 
>  - colors (goldenrod vs maroon)
> 
> 
> Think of all the lesser programming languages that would seem so
> 20th-century when Python takes this step -- which virtually every
> self-respecting web site has already taken in their style sheets!

You are of course being facetious but Forth already beat you to it in Color Forth:
https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/ashleyf/2013/11/02/the-beautiful-simplicity-of-colorforth/

More seriously the problem is that when we go from 100 of ASCII to 1 million 
of Unicode its like a digital to analogue jump.
In http://blog.languager.org/2014/04/unicoded-python.html
Ive described that it would be nice if for instance we could write
x ? y in place of the clunky x <= y
Likewise x ? y would obviate all useless arguments between x <>y or x != y etc

But then there are a slew of lookalikes like 
x ? y
x ? y

If someone seriously starts embracing unicode in program source, these 
kinds of questions/issues need corresponding serious consideration.

In the same way and like colorforth, it would be better to distinguish
<font-size=huge>identifier</font>
from <font-size=normal>identifier</font>
rather than the current status of distinguishing identifier from Identifier
But then we have a slippery slope:
Should <font-size=12> be same/distinct from <font-size=13> ?


From marko at pacujo.net  Tue Apr 19 08:14:18 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 15:14:18 +0300
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan> <86twix3mc5.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
 <87potlrfa1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <899a2469-3627-468f-8591-9cf95f17e1e8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87lh49re1x.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com>:

> In the same way and like colorforth, it would be better to distinguish
> <font-size=huge>identifier</font> from
> <font-size=normal>identifier</font> rather than the current status of
> distinguishing identifier from Identifier But then we have a slippery
> slope: Should <font-size=12> be same/distinct from <font-size=13> ?

In a past life of mine, a development team proudly presented their new
reporting tool that produced beautiful graphs with dozens of
crisscrossing, jagged lines.

I proposed they needed to make each line a different color and add a
legend for each color.

The developers thought that was a great idea.


Marko


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 08:55:53 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 05:55:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <mailman.161.1461039066.6324.python-list@python.org>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
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 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <1461036589.1221872.582808913.08A50F70@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.160.1461036598.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <8b3aa2c6-4314-446a-a894-fe61451a373a@googlegroups.com>
 <1461039063.1234620.582832393.7B6F72B6@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.161.1461039066.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0536e5a3-793f-44b3-87cc-5743bcf2a6a9@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 9:41:24 AM UTC+5:30, Random832 wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016, at 23:54, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > Start no tabs:
> > if foo# comment that is aligned
> > do some stuff# across multiple indent levels 
> > 
> > Add tabs as leading indents with second line indented 1 tab more
> > (showing tabs as |)
> > |if foo# comment that is aligned
> > ||do some stuff# across multiple indent levels 
> >
> > Indent the first comment with 2 tabs
> > At this point the first comment is/shows lefter than the second
> > 
> > Indent the second with 1 tab -- the two #es now line up
> 
> Yeah but now the second line of code is to the right of the whole first
> line of code. "if foo" must have been too short to illustrate it (it's
> long enough if a tab is four spaces, but I guess it's longer in the
> sample), but I assumed you would get the concept of what I was saying
> and try putting something longer there or try extending the comments in
> the C code the sample preloads.
> 
> Like, it ends up looking like this:
> 
> if foo("what if it's a much longer condition"):                # comment
>                                                  do something  #
>                                                  comment2
> 
> There's no way to get this:
> 
> if foo("what if it's a much longer condition"):  # comment
>     do something                                 # comment2

I get it looking quite nice if I put a tab between "foo" and "("
Is that an acceptable solution?? Dunno...

html tables need all sorts of 'un-table-ifying' options
eg column/row groups, tables within tables and what not.
At which point we cross the point of diminishing returns is not clear 
when we are still armchair discussing.

For something a bit more practical here is emacs (orgtbl mode) doing html tables:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQAd41VAXWo


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Tue Apr 19 09:07:50 2016
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 15:07:50 +0200
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <87potlrfa1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan> <86twix3mc5.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
 <87potlrfa1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <57162DA6.7000509@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 19-04-16 om 13:47 schreef Marko Rauhamaa:
> Prehistoric programming languages considered uppercase/lowercase
> differences insignificant variations. Most modern languages preserve the
> distinction and in fact invite us to make a difference between:
>
>    BLACK
>    Black
>    black
>
> Why stop there?
>
> We need a PEP to distinguish also between:
>
>  - typefaces (Times New Roman vs Garamond)
>
>  - weights (bold vs thin)
>
>  - serifs (with or without)
>
>  - sizes (8pt vs 11pt)
>
>  - colors (goldenrod vs maroon)

Well personnaly I would like the introduction of weights.
So that reserved keywords are in bold and identifiers are
thin.

With unicode we could use the mathematical bold letters for
reserved words.

-- 
Antoon Pardon



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Apr 19 09:17:08 2016
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:17:08 -0500
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <39d27a77-fa74-4d63-b1b6-d612c3905bd4@googlegroups.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <m1zisqyruk.fsf@iKarel.lan> <87wpnuqat0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmqyo1gsLgEUNBPAGrgUPBThzsGtn61arPmhmEKifhuMDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.4.1461053856.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <39d27a77-fa74-4d63-b1b6-d612c3905bd4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20160419081708.56aeed8d@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2016-04-19 04:37, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > No, they will not, because they'll make your code proprietary.  
> 
> Pragmatically yes; theoretically no because its like saying
> "If one dont want to get locked down to MSWord proprietary tools
> and formats one should use latex"
> Refuted by the fact that libreoffice and odf etc are free/open

Except that I still regularly have trouble with consistent formatting
being portable between LO/OO.o/MSWord (heck, I still have trouble
with MS Word not being consistent between versions).

-tkc






From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 09:21:22 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 06:21:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why are my files in in my list - os module used with sys argv
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1461053808.30862.python-list@python.org>
References: <0bce26b1-ad3d-42c4-8f99-08e82d1bce88@googlegroups.com>
 <5715798b$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nf4ph0$6gh$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.3.1461053808.30862.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <719abd0a-d3b4-483d-ab77-1989b06f062e@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, 19 April 2016 18:17:02 UTC+10, Peter Otten  wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 09:44 am, Sayth Renshaw wrote:
> > 
> >> Hi
> >> 
> >> Why would it be that my files are not being found in this script?
> > 
> > You are calling the script with:
> > 
> > python jqxml.py samples *.xml
> > 
> > This does not do what you think it does: under Linux shells, the glob
> > *.xml will be expanded by the shell. Fortunately, in your case, you have
> > no files in the current directory matching the glob *.xml, so it is not
> > expanded and the arguments your script receives are:
> > 
> > 
> > "python jqxml.py"  # not used
> > 
> > "samples"  # dir
> > 
> > "*.xml"  # mask
> > 
> > 
> > You then call:
> > 
> > fileResult = filter(lambda x: x.endswith(mask), files)
> > 
> > which looks for file names which end with a literal string (asterisk, dot,
> > x, m, l) in that order. You have no files that match that string.
> > 
> > At the shell prompt, enter this:
> > 
> > touch samples/junk\*.xml
> > 
> > and run the script again, and you should see that it now matches one file.
> > 
> > Instead, what you should do is:
> > 
> > 
> > (1) Use the glob module:
> > 
> > https://docs.python.org/2/library/glob.html
> > https://docs.python.org/3/library/glob.html
> > 
> > https://pymotw.com/2/glob/
> > https://pymotw.com/3/glob/
> > 
> > 
> > (2) When calling the script, avoid the shell expanding wildcards by
> > escaping them or quoting them:
> > 
> > python jqxml.py samples "*.xml"
> 
> (3) *Use* the expansion mechanism provided by the shell instead of fighting 
> it:
> 
> $ python jqxml.py samples/*.xml
> 
> This requires that you change your script
> 
> from pyquery import PyQuery as pq
> import pandas as pd
> import sys
> 
> fileResult = sys.argv[1:]
> 
> if not fileResult:
>      print("no files specified")
>      sys.exit(1)
> 
> for file in fileResult:
>     print(file)
> 
> for items in fileResult:
>     try:
>         d = pq(filename=items)
>     except FileNotFoundError as e:
>         print(e)
>         continue
>     res = d('nomination')
>     # you could move the attrs definition before the loop
>     attrs = ('id', 'horse')
>     # probably a bug: you are overwriting data on every iteration
>     data = [[res.eq(i).attr(x) for x in attrs] for i in range(len(res))]
> 
> I think this is the most natural approach if you are willing to accept the 
> quirk that the script tries to process the file 'samples/*.xml' if the 
> samples directory doesn't contain any files with the .xml suffix. Common 
> shell tools work that way:
> 
> $ ls samples/*.xml
> samples/1.xml  samples/2.xml  samples/3.xml
> $ ls samples/*.XML
> ls: cannot access samples/*.XML: No such file or directory
> 
> Unrelated: instead of working with sys.argv directly you could use argparse 
> which is part of the standard library. The code to get at least one file is
> 
> import argparse
> 
> parser = argparse.ArgumentParser()
> parser.add_argument("files", nargs="+")
> args = parser.parse_args()
> 
> print(args.files)
> 
> Note that this doesn't fix the shell expansion oddity.

Hi

Thanks for the insight, after doing a little reading I found this post which uses both argparse and glob and attempts to cover the windows and bash expansion of wildcards, http://breathmintsforpenguins.blogspot.com.au/2013/09/python-crossplatform-handling-of.html

import argparse  
from glob import glob  
   
def main(file_names):  
    print file_names  
   
if __name__ == "__main__":  
    parser = argparse.ArgumentParser()  
    parser.add_argument("file_names", nargs='*') 
    #nargs='*' tells it to combine all positional arguments into a single list  
    args = parser.parse_args()  
    file_names = list()  
   
    #go through all of the arguments and replace ones with wildcards with the expansion
    #if a string does not contain a wildcard, glob will return it as is.
    for arg in args.file_names:  
        file_names += glob(arg)  
     
    main(file_names)

And way beyond my needs for such a tiny script but I think tis is the flask developers python cli creation package Click http://click.pocoo.org/5/why/#why-not-argparse based of optparse.


>     # probably a bug: you are overwriting data on every iteration
>     data = [[res.eq(i).attr(x) for x in attrs] for i in range(len(res))]

Thanks for picking this up will have to append to it on each iteration for each attribute.

Thank You

Sayth


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 09:28:48 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 13:28:48 +0000
Subject: Python packages for hydrology and DEM
In-Reply-To: <06a6bfe3-49c2-48a9-9e95-69359cffdebf@googlegroups.com>
References: <06a6bfe3-49c2-48a9-9e95-69359cffdebf@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkMb_r58YM5Qbpabe=d7V=rs5W7mFXs+Krw8HX4Aord=-g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 2:21 AM Xristos Xristoou <saxri89 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I want to ask for hydrology python packages with complete function to
> calculate hydrology tasks like fill,flow direction,flow accumulator and
> more?or how can i find genetic algorithms for to do this tasks to finaly
> create a complete hydro model with python.
>
> can someone tell me some documentation to do that with python ? i want to
> find like this TopoToolbox from matlab in python using
>
> also i want to ask and for python psckage for digital elevation models
> calcultor like idw krigging spline and more...or some documentation for this
> or some genetic algorithm for this
>
>
Sklearn is a good machine learning package (http://scikit-learn.org/).
I suggest simulated annealing rather than genetic algorithms.


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Apr 19 09:31:01 2016
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:31:01 -0500
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <87potlrfa1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan> <86twix3mc5.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
 <87potlrfa1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <20160419083101.5cdfe184@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2016-04-19 14:47, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> We need a PEP to distinguish also between:
>  - typefaces (Times New Roman vs Garamond)
>  - weights (bold vs thin)
>  - serifs (with or without)
>  - sizes (8pt vs 11pt)
>  - colors (goldenrod vs maroon)

Like HTML & CSS, the goal should be to separate the code (HTML) from
its presentation (how it appears in your editor).

It's why I've taken to using formulaic indenting (one or two
indents depending on whether the continued line starts an
indented block) rather than trying to align with something in a prior
line.  It drives me nuts when I globally change the spelling of
something (and thus the length of some variable name) and then feel
obligated to re-indent my continuations to get them to line back up
with some arbitrary paren.  Compare

    def do_something(param1,
                     param2,
                     param3,
                     ):
        implementation()

with just using

    def do_something(param1,
            param2,
            param3,
            ):
        implementation()

(or, if you want your params to line up


    def do_something(
            param1,
            param2,
            param3,
            ):
        implementation()

which is usually how I end up splitting them)

When "do_something" changes to "frobify", I don't feel the need to go
play with indentation with my scheme.

Likewise, I detest aligning comments and almost always prefer to put
them in a neighboring line if there's continuation:

    foo = bar * 3 + 2 # we have 3 bars
                      # plus one for margin on either side

changing the length of the code portion (say, s/bar/inner_width/) will
require re-indenting (and possibly re-flowing) the comments.

It's even worse if the comment flows to an unrelated line

    foo = bar * 3 + 2    # we have 3 bars
    result = apply(bar)  # plus one for margin on either side

Now, if either line of *code* changes, it requires rejiggering the
comment indentation.

If the comment gets moved above, it's no longer an issue:

    # we have 3 bars plus one for margin on either side
    foo = bar * 3 + 2
    result = apply(bar)

I strongly advocate from keeping the content (the code and its AST)
separate from its presentation.

-tkc









From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 09:31:50 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 06:31:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why are my files in in my list - os module used with sys argv
In-Reply-To: <719abd0a-d3b4-483d-ab77-1989b06f062e@googlegroups.com>
References: <0bce26b1-ad3d-42c4-8f99-08e82d1bce88@googlegroups.com>
 <5715798b$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nf4ph0$6gh$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.3.1461053808.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <719abd0a-d3b4-483d-ab77-1989b06f062e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <19e288ee-fc9d-4ed3-bf7a-e6d76c379b60@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, 19 April 2016 23:21:42 UTC+10, Sayth Renshaw  wrote:
> On Tuesday, 19 April 2016 18:17:02 UTC+10, Peter Otten  wrote:
> > Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > 
> > > On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 09:44 am, Sayth Renshaw wrote:
> > > 
> > >> Hi
> > >> 
> > >> Why would it be that my files are not being found in this script?
> > > 
> > > You are calling the script with:
> > > 
> > > python jqxml.py samples *.xml
> > > 
> > > This does not do what you think it does: under Linux shells, the glob
> > > *.xml will be expanded by the shell. Fortunately, in your case, you have
> > > no files in the current directory matching the glob *.xml, so it is not
> > > expanded and the arguments your script receives are:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > "python jqxml.py"  # not used
> > > 
> > > "samples"  # dir
> > > 
> > > "*.xml"  # mask
> > > 
> > > 
> > > You then call:
> > > 
> > > fileResult = filter(lambda x: x.endswith(mask), files)
> > > 
> > > which looks for file names which end with a literal string (asterisk, dot,
> > > x, m, l) in that order. You have no files that match that string.
> > > 
> > > At the shell prompt, enter this:
> > > 
> > > touch samples/junk\*.xml
> > > 
> > > and run the script again, and you should see that it now matches one file.
> > > 
> > > Instead, what you should do is:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > (1) Use the glob module:
> > > 
> > > https://docs.python.org/2/library/glob.html
> > > https://docs.python.org/3/library/glob.html
> > > 
> > > https://pymotw.com/2/glob/
> > > https://pymotw.com/3/glob/
> > > 
> > > 
> > > (2) When calling the script, avoid the shell expanding wildcards by
> > > escaping them or quoting them:
> > > 
> > > python jqxml.py samples "*.xml"
> > 
> > (3) *Use* the expansion mechanism provided by the shell instead of fighting 
> > it:
> > 
> > $ python jqxml.py samples/*.xml
> > 
> > This requires that you change your script
> > 
> > from pyquery import PyQuery as pq
> > import pandas as pd
> > import sys
> > 
> > fileResult = sys.argv[1:]
> > 
> > if not fileResult:
> >      print("no files specified")
> >      sys.exit(1)
> > 
> > for file in fileResult:
> >     print(file)
> > 
> > for items in fileResult:
> >     try:
> >         d = pq(filename=items)
> >     except FileNotFoundError as e:
> >         print(e)
> >         continue
> >     res = d('nomination')
> >     # you could move the attrs definition before the loop
> >     attrs = ('id', 'horse')
> >     # probably a bug: you are overwriting data on every iteration
> >     data = [[res.eq(i).attr(x) for x in attrs] for i in range(len(res))]
> > 
> > I think this is the most natural approach if you are willing to accept the 
> > quirk that the script tries to process the file 'samples/*.xml' if the 
> > samples directory doesn't contain any files with the .xml suffix. Common 
> > shell tools work that way:
> > 
> > $ ls samples/*.xml
> > samples/1.xml  samples/2.xml  samples/3.xml
> > $ ls samples/*.XML
> > ls: cannot access samples/*.XML: No such file or directory
> > 
> > Unrelated: instead of working with sys.argv directly you could use argparse 
> > which is part of the standard library. The code to get at least one file is
> > 
> > import argparse
> > 
> > parser = argparse.ArgumentParser()
> > parser.add_argument("files", nargs="+")
> > args = parser.parse_args()
> > 
> > print(args.files)
> > 
> > Note that this doesn't fix the shell expansion oddity.
> 
> Hi
> 
> Thanks for the insight, after doing a little reading I found this post which uses both argparse and glob and attempts to cover the windows and bash expansion of wildcards, http://breathmintsforpenguins.blogspot.com.au/2013/09/python-crossplatform-handling-of.html
> 
> import argparse  
> from glob import glob  
>    
> def main(file_names):  
>     print file_names  
>    
> if __name__ == "__main__":  
>     parser = argparse.ArgumentParser()  
>     parser.add_argument("file_names", nargs='*') 
>     #nargs='*' tells it to combine all positional arguments into a single list  
>     args = parser.parse_args()  
>     file_names = list()  
>    
>     #go through all of the arguments and replace ones with wildcards with the expansion
>     #if a string does not contain a wildcard, glob will return it as is.
>     for arg in args.file_names:  
>         file_names += glob(arg)  
>      
>     main(file_names)
> 
> And way beyond my needs for such a tiny script but I think tis is the flask developers python cli creation package Click http://click.pocoo.org/5/why/#why-not-argparse based of optparse.
> 
> 
> >     # probably a bug: you are overwriting data on every iteration
> >     data = [[res.eq(i).attr(x) for x in attrs] for i in range(len(res))]
> 
> Thanks for picking this up will have to append to it on each iteration for each attribute.
> 
> Thank You
> 
> Sayth

Scratch that bit about the code for http://breathmintsforpenguins.blogspot.com.au/2013/09/python-crossplatform-handling-of.html can't get it to work, good general direction though

Sayth


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 09:41:06 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 23:41:06 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <20160419083101.5cdfe184@bigbox.christie.dr>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan> <86twix3mc5.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
 <87potlrfa1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <20160419083101.5cdfe184@bigbox.christie.dr>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqxY21Pq8SYqvXotYmd9v7MGw5oHbLu3K7ze4o3Ztmsag@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 11:31 PM, Tim Chase
<python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> Likewise, I detest aligning comments and almost always prefer to put
> them in a neighboring line if there's continuation:
>
>     foo = bar * 3 + 2 # we have 3 bars
>                       # plus one for margin on either side
>
> changing the length of the code portion (say, s/bar/inner_width/) will
> require re-indenting (and possibly re-flowing) the comments.
>
> It's even worse if the comment flows to an unrelated line
>
>     foo = bar * 3 + 2    # we have 3 bars
>     result = apply(bar)  # plus one for margin on either side
>
> Now, if either line of *code* changes, it requires rejiggering the
> comment indentation.
>
> If the comment gets moved above, it's no longer an issue:
>
>     # we have 3 bars plus one for margin on either side
>     foo = bar * 3 + 2
>     result = apply(bar)

Oh, absolutely! If the right-hand comment can't fit in the
right-hand-side, it needs to move above the code. The only time I'll
"wrap" that kind of comment is when it actually applies to both lines
of code:

width = bar * 3 + 2 # we have 3x2 bars, plus one...
height = bar * 2 + 2 # ... pixel of margin on all sides

ChrisA


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Apr 19 09:45:24 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 15:45:24 +0200
Subject: Why are my files in in my list - os module used with sys argv
References: <0bce26b1-ad3d-42c4-8f99-08e82d1bce88@googlegroups.com>
 <5715798b$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nf4ph0$6gh$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.3.1461053808.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <719abd0a-d3b4-483d-ab77-1989b06f062e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nf5cpq$37a$1@ger.gmane.org>

Sayth Renshaw wrote:

> Thanks for the insight, after doing a little reading I found this post
> which uses both argparse and glob and attempts to cover the windows and
> bash expansion of wildcards,
> http://breathmintsforpenguins.blogspot.com.au/2013/09/python-crossplatform-handling-of.html

I hope you read the comment section of that page carefully.
On Linux your script's behaviour will be surprising.




From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Apr 19 09:50:28 2016
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:50:28 -0500
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqxY21Pq8SYqvXotYmd9v7MGw5oHbLu3K7ze4o3Ztmsag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan> <86twix3mc5.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
 <87potlrfa1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <20160419083101.5cdfe184@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <CAPTjJmqxY21Pq8SYqvXotYmd9v7MGw5oHbLu3K7ze4o3Ztmsag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160419085028.50aabd63@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2016-04-19 23:41, Chris Angelico wrote:
> The only time I'll "wrap" that kind of comment is when it actually
> applies to both lines of code:
> 
> width = bar * 3 + 2 # we have 3x2 bars, plus one...
> height = bar * 2 + 2 # ... pixel of margin on all sides

And even then in that exceptional case, I see that you do the same
thing I do:  just append <space>, hash, space, comment.  No fancy
aligning.

-tkc





From liran.maymoni at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 09:58:58 2016
From: liran.maymoni at gmail.com (liran.maymoni at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 06:58:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem with textblob lib
Message-ID: <a38d4cea-b8a1-4470-ba6d-7d0aa888d468@googlegroups.com>

Hey,
Using windows 10
I've install textblob using "py -m pip install textblob".
I can import textblob, or from textblob import blob,word
But i cant: from textblobl import Textblob.
The error i get is:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#5>", line 1, in <module>
    from textblob import Textblob
ImportError: cannot import name 'Textblob'

Thanks.


From random832 at fastmail.com  Tue Apr 19 10:05:48 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 10:05:48 -0400
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <0536e5a3-793f-44b3-87cc-5743bcf2a6a9@googlegroups.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <1461036589.1221872.582808913.08A50F70@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.160.1461036598.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <8b3aa2c6-4314-446a-a894-fe61451a373a@googlegroups.com>
 <1461039063.1234620.582832393.7B6F72B6@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.161.1461039066.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <0536e5a3-793f-44b3-87cc-5743bcf2a6a9@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1461074748.2551319.583266185.15F4C348@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, at 08:55, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > Like, it ends up looking like this:
> > 
> > if foo("what if it's a much longer condition"):                # comment
> >                                                  do something  #
> >                                                  comment2
> > 
> > There's no way to get this:
> > 
> > if foo("what if it's a much longer condition"):  # comment
> >     do something                                 # comment2
> 
> I get it looking quite nice if I put a tab between "foo" and "("
> Is that an acceptable solution?? Dunno...

No, because what if "foo" is much longer? You could put a tab after
"if", but that means while-blocks are indented further than if-blocks.
And that just delays the problem to the third indent block, you've got
to find something to line that up to.

if foo("blah blah blah"):       # comment
    if bar("etc etc etc etc"):  # comment
        do stuff                # comment

becomes

if foo  ("blah blah blah"):                        # comment
        if bar               ("etc etc etc etc"):  # comment
                             do stuff              # comment

Maybe what we really need is a way to _display_ a multiline comment at
the right margin (and hanging down for as many lines as it needs),
without having it baked into the source code that way.

Source file contains:
### Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Etiam
### ut mattis leo. In sed arcu gravida, consequat tellus placerat,
### ullamcorper metus.
if foo:
    if bar:
        do stuff
###
some other stuff

(the last ### is just an empty comment to push stuff after it down past
the first comment - if another comment is there instead, it will be
displayed starting from the "some other stuff" line)

Displays as:

if foo:           # Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur
    if bar:       # adipiscing elit. Etiam ut mattis leo. In sed
        do stuff  # arcu gravida, consequat tellus
                  # placerat, ullamcorper metus.

some other stuff


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Apr 19 10:08:21 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 16:08:21 +0200
Subject: Problem with textblob lib
References: <a38d4cea-b8a1-4470-ba6d-7d0aa888d468@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nf5e4m$nkk$1@ger.gmane.org>

liran.maymoni at gmail.com wrote:

> Hey,
> Using windows 10
> I've install textblob using "py -m pip install textblob".
> I can import textblob, or from textblob import blob,word
> But i cant: from textblobl import Textblob.
> The error i get is:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#5>", line 1, in <module>
>     from textblob import Textblob
> ImportError: cannot import name 'Textblob'
> 
> Thanks.

Try

from textblob import TextBlob

Python is case-sensitive.



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 10:10:08 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 07:10:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <mailman.16.1461074402.30862.python-list@python.org>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <m1zisqyruk.fsf@iKarel.lan> <87wpnuqat0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmqyo1gsLgEUNBPAGrgUPBThzsGtn61arPmhmEKifhuMDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.4.1461053856.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <39d27a77-fa74-4d63-b1b6-d612c3905bd4@googlegroups.com>
 <20160419081708.56aeed8d@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <mailman.16.1461074402.30862.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9165ef47-2201-4520-bcd4-881165c839bf@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 7:30:18 PM UTC+5:30, Tim Chase wrote:
> On 2016-04-19 04:37, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > > No, they will not, because they'll make your code proprietary.  
> > 
> > Pragmatically yes; theoretically no because its like saying
> > "If one dont want to get locked down to MSWord proprietary tools
> > and formats one should use latex"
> > Refuted by the fact that libreoffice and odf etc are free/open
> 
> Except that I still regularly have trouble with consistent formatting
> being portable between LO/OO.o/MSWord (heck, I still have trouble
> with MS Word not being consistent between versions).

1. That libre is in sux category compared to MS
2. That MS does legal and illegal things to lock people in
3. And other charms of civilized existence
naturally conduce us to the most rational choice - luddeiteism

Fortunately or unfortunately we dont always make rational choices :-)

text files are a luddite choice
They work in the same way that pen-n-paper keep working when the power
fails and computer is down


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 10:13:00 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 00:13:00 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <1461074748.2551319.583266185.15F4C348@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
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 <1461036589.1221872.582808913.08A50F70@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.160.1461036598.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <8b3aa2c6-4314-446a-a894-fe61451a373a@googlegroups.com>
 <1461039063.1234620.582832393.7B6F72B6@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.161.1461039066.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <0536e5a3-793f-44b3-87cc-5743bcf2a6a9@googlegroups.com>
 <1461074748.2551319.583266185.15F4C348@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp=wqesaBvXyE9weFNjw_5q5+mibt7rD=4=GW7ODbayMg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 12:05 AM, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
> Source file contains:
> ### Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Etiam
> ### ut mattis leo. In sed arcu gravida, consequat tellus placerat,
> ### ullamcorper metus.
> if foo:
>     if bar:
>         do stuff
> ###
> some other stuff
>
> (the last ### is just an empty comment to push stuff after it down past
> the first comment - if another comment is there instead, it will be
> displayed starting from the "some other stuff" line)
>
> Displays as:
>
> if foo:           # Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur
>     if bar:       # adipiscing elit. Etiam ut mattis leo. In sed
>         do stuff  # arcu gravida, consequat tellus
>                   # placerat, ullamcorper metus.
>
> some other stuff

Why does it need to be displayed to the right, though? Do we gain
anything by not having the comment above the code?

ChrisA


From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 10:15:52 2016
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 14:15:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <m1zisqyruk.fsf@iKarel.lan>
Message-ID: <nf5eio$lrb$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2016-04-19, Pete Forman <petef4+usenet at gmail.com> wrote:

> My question asks why monospace is used for the text.

Well, I always use a monospaced font for code because I find it helps
readability for things like tables of data, block comments, and lines
of code that have some sort of parallel structure that I want to be
obvious to the reader.

> And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest of
> world has moved on is rather backward:
> http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/html-is-why-mess-in-programming-syntax.html

The same reason humans use written and spoken language rather than
just drawing pictures, pointing, and grunting?

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! What a COINCIDENCE!
                                  at               I'm an authorized "SNOOTS
                              gmail.com            OF THE STARS" dealer!!



From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 10:18:11 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 07:18:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why are my files in in my list - os module used with sys argv
In-Reply-To: <mailman.14.1461073547.30862.python-list@python.org>
References: <0bce26b1-ad3d-42c4-8f99-08e82d1bce88@googlegroups.com>
 <5715798b$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nf4ph0$6gh$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.3.1461053808.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <719abd0a-d3b4-483d-ab77-1989b06f062e@googlegroups.com>
 <nf5cpq$37a$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.14.1461073547.30862.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <96dfb79a-697c-47cb-b9d9-690f4f937062@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, 19 April 2016 23:46:01 UTC+10, Peter Otten  wrote:
> Sayth Renshaw wrote:
> 
> > Thanks for the insight, after doing a little reading I found this post
> > which uses both argparse and glob and attempts to cover the windows and
> > bash expansion of wildcards,
> > http://breathmintsforpenguins.blogspot.com.au/2013/09/python-crossplatform-handling-of.html
> 
> I hope you read the comment section of that page carefully.
> On Linux your script's behaviour will be surprising.

Yes I have gone your way now and am parsing the files, where my data is going will have to wait till after I sleep.

Thanks for the advice.

from pyquery import PyQuery as pq
import pandas as pd
import argparse
# from glob import glob


parser = argparse.ArgumentParser(description=None)


def GetArgs(parser):
    """Parser function using argparse"""
    # parser.add_argument('directory', help='directory use',
    #                     action='store', nargs='*')
    parser.add_argument("files", nargs="+")
    return parser.parse_args()

fileList = GetArgs(parser)
print(fileList.files)
# d = pq(filename='20160319RHIL0_edit.xml')
data = []
attrs = ('id', 'horse')


for items in fileList.files:
    d = pq(filename=items)
    res = d('nomination')
    dataSets = [[res.eq(i).attr(x)
                 for x in attrs] for i in range(len(res))]
    resultList = data.append(dataSets)

frames = pd.DataFrame(resultList)
print(frames)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
(pyquery)sayth at sayth-E6410:~/Projects/pyquery$ python jqxml.py samples/*.xml
['samples/20160319RHIL0_edit.xml', 'samples/20160402RAND0.xml', 'samples/20160409RAND0.xml', 'samples/20160416RAND0.xml']
Empty DataFrame
Columns: []
Index: []
(pyquery)sayth at sayth-E6410:~/Projects/pyquery$ 

Thanks

Sayth


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 10:24:30 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 00:24:30 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <nf5eio$lrb$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <m1zisqyruk.fsf@iKarel.lan> <nf5eio$lrb$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqZYCt7j2AWLoa3dzpkPD7=ZhWeXSoUpU3U_=z401EQHw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 12:15 AM, Grant Edwards
<grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
>> And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest of
>> world has moved on is rather backward:
>> http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/html-is-why-mess-in-programming-syntax.html
>
> The same reason humans use written and spoken language rather than
> just drawing pictures, pointing, and grunting?

http://catb.org/esr/writings/unix-koans/gui-programmer.html

ChrisA


From liran.maymoni at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 10:31:04 2016
From: liran.maymoni at gmail.com (liran.maymoni at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 07:31:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem with textblob lib
In-Reply-To: <mailman.18.1461074923.30862.python-list@python.org>
References: <a38d4cea-b8a1-4470-ba6d-7d0aa888d468@googlegroups.com>
 <nf5e4m$nkk$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.18.1461074923.30862.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57f1a079-2549-44c1-91c5-5865c99338cc@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 5:08:58 PM UTC+3, Peter Otten wrote:
> liran.maymoni at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > Hey,
> > Using windows 10
> > I've install textblob using "py -m pip install textblob".
> > I can import textblob, or from textblob import blob,word
> > But i cant: from textblobl import Textblob.
> > The error i get is:
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<pyshell#5>", line 1, in <module>
> >     from textblob import Textblob
> > ImportError: cannot import name 'Textblob'
> > 
> > Thanks.
> 
> Try
> 
> from textblob import TextBlob
> 
> Python is case-sensitive.

OMG!!!! thank you


From alice at gothcandy.com  Tue Apr 19 10:45:10 2016
From: alice at gothcandy.com (=?utf-8?Q?Alice_Bevan=E2=80=93McGregor?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 10:45:10 -0400
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
Message-ID: <nf5g9m$vnq$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2016-04-18 21:14:02 +0000, Pete Forman said:

> Why is it that Python continues to use a fixed width font and therefore
> specifies the maximum line width as a character count?
> 
> An essential part of the language is indentation which ought to continue
> to mandate that lines start with a multiple of 4 em worth of space (or
> some other size or encode with hard tabs, that is not germane to my
> question). The content of the line need not be bound by the rules needed
> to position its start.

I wrote a semi-serious, somewhat tongue-in-cheek article entitled "Your
code style guide is crap, but still better than nothing." a number of years
ago, and reposted it towards the end of last year. It would seem to apply
here, as the fundamental disconnect isn't just "use of N space
characters", but "use of space characters at all".

>From the article:

> Do you use spaces in a word processor to line up bullet points? If you
> do you?ll be first against the wall when the revolution comes!

http://s.webcore.io/2K0W0m2T2e2f

It also touches on points raised by others, such as Elastic Tabstops.

	? Alice.




From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 10:54:17 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 07:54:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <mailman.20.1461075365.30862.python-list@python.org>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <m1zisqyruk.fsf@iKarel.lan> <nf5eio$lrb$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.20.1461075365.30862.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f6942b3f-1281-4ae1-8779-2c1ea3368fa4@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 7:46:21 PM UTC+5:30, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2016-04-19, Pete Forman  wrote:
> 
> > My question asks why monospace is used for the text.
> 
> Well, I always use a monospaced font for code because I find it helps
> readability for things like tables of data, block comments, and lines
> of code that have some sort of parallel structure that I want to be
> obvious to the reader.
> 
> > And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest of
> > world has moved on is rather backward:
> > http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/html-is-why-mess-in-programming-syntax.html
> 
> The same reason humans use written and spoken language rather than
> just drawing pictures, pointing, and grunting?

I wonder who the joke is on:

| A study comparing Canadian and Chinese students found that the latter were 
| better at complex maths

| Native English speakers rely more on additional brain regions involved in the 
| meaning of words, whereas native Chinese speakers rely more on additional 
| brain regions involved in the visual appearance and physical manipulation of 
| numbers,

from : https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9422-mother-tongue-may-determine-maths-skills/


From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 19 11:50:00 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 01:50:00 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <m1zisqyruk.fsf@iKarel.lan> <nf5eio$lrb$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.20.1461075365.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <f6942b3f-1281-4ae1-8779-2c1ea3368fa4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <571653aa$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 12:54 am, Rustom Mody wrote:


> I wonder who the joke is on:
> 
> | A study comparing Canadian and Chinese students found that the latter
> | were better at complex maths

Most published studies are wrong.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/

- Has that study been replicated by others? Have people tried to 
  replicate it? Were negative findings published, or do they
  languish in some researcher's bottom drawer? (Publication bias
  is a big problem in research.)

- Was the study well-designed, and the given conclusions supported
  by the study? How well did it survive the critical attention of
  experts in that field? Did the study account for differences in
  mathematics education?

- Did the study have sufficient statistical power to support the
  claimed results? Most published studies are invalid since they
  simply lack the power to justify their conclusion.

- Is the effect due to chance? Remember, with a p-value of 0.05 (the
  so-called 95% significance level), one in twenty experiments will
  give a positive result just by chance. A p-value of 0.05 does not
  mean "these results are proven", it just means "if every single 
  thing about this experiment is perfect, then the chances that these
  results are due by chance alone is 1 in 20".

Anyone who has played (say) Dungeons and Dragons, or other role-playing
games, will know that events with a probability of 1 in 20 occur very
frequently. To be precise, they occur one time in twenty.

Even if the claimed results are correct, how strong is the effect?

(a) On average, Canadian students get 49.0% on a standard exam that Chinese
students get 89.0% for.

(b) On average, Canadian students get 49.0% on a standard exam that Chinese
students get 49.1% for.

The level of statistical significance is not related to the strength of the
effect: we can be very confident of small effects, and weakly confident of
large effects.



-- 
Steven



From liran.maymoni at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 11:51:56 2016
From: liran.maymoni at gmail.com (liran.maymoni at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:51:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Failed install scipy lib
Message-ID: <08215756-d9f5-4dba-b710-ab8626ebfe27@googlegroups.com>

Hello,
i'm trying to use:
"py -m pip install scipy"
and after couple of lines a get an error saying:

Command "C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\python.exe -u -c "import setuptools, tokenize;__file__='C:\\Users\\Liran\\AppData\\Local\\Temp\\pip-build-er8bfsou\\scipy\\setup.py';exec(compile(getattr(tokenize, 'open', open)(__file__).read().replace('\r\n', '\n'), __file__, 'exec'))" install --record C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Temp\pip-4505t4eq-record\install-record.txt --single-version-externally-managed --compile" failed with error code 1 in C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Temp\pip-build-er8bfsou\scipy

What is the problem?


From liran.maymoni at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 11:55:30 2016
From: liran.maymoni at gmail.com (liran.maymoni at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:55:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Failed install scipy lib
In-Reply-To: <08215756-d9f5-4dba-b710-ab8626ebfe27@googlegroups.com>
References: <08215756-d9f5-4dba-b710-ab8626ebfe27@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5e7723b3-8685-444f-874c-14d7783cf9cc@googlegroups.com>

This is the full Log:

C:\Users\Liran>py -m pip install scipy
Collecting scipy
  Using cached scipy-0.17.0.tar.gz
Installing collected packages: scipy
  Running setup.py install for scipy ... error
    Complete output from command C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\python.exe -u -c "import setuptools, tokenize;__file__='C:\\Users\\Liran\\AppData\\Local\\Temp\\pip-build-47xsb0ek\\scipy\\setup.py';exec(compile(getattr(tokenize, 'open', open)(__file__).read().replace('\r\n', '\n'), __file__, 'exec'))" install --record C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Temp\pip-ybdtaj2y-record\install-record.txt --single-version-externally-managed --compile:
    lapack_opt_info:
    openblas_lapack_info:
      libraries openblas not found in ['C:\\Users\\Liran\\AppData\\Local\\Programs\\Python\\Python35-32\\lib', 'C:\\', 'C:\\Users\\Liran\\AppData\\Local\\Programs\\Python\\Python35-32\\libs']
      NOT AVAILABLE

    lapack_mkl_info:
    mkl_info:
      libraries mkl,vml,guide not found in ['C:\\Users\\Liran\\AppData\\Local\\Programs\\Python\\Python35-32\\lib', 'C:\\', 'C:\\Users\\Liran\\AppData\\Local\\Programs\\Python\\Python35-32\\libs']
      NOT AVAILABLE

      NOT AVAILABLE

    atlas_3_10_threads_info:
    Setting PTATLAS=ATLAS
    C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\lib\site-packages\numpy\distutils\system_info.py:633: UserWarning: Specified path C:\projects\windows-wheel-builder\atlas-builds\atlas-3.10.1-sse2-32\lib is invalid.
      warnings.warn('Specified path %s is invalid.' % d)
    <class 'numpy.distutils.system_info.atlas_3_10_threads_info'>
      NOT AVAILABLE

    atlas_3_10_info:
    <class 'numpy.distutils.system_info.atlas_3_10_info'>
      NOT AVAILABLE

    atlas_threads_info:
    Setting PTATLAS=ATLAS
    <class 'numpy.distutils.system_info.atlas_threads_info'>
      NOT AVAILABLE

    atlas_info:
    <class 'numpy.distutils.system_info.atlas_info'>
      NOT AVAILABLE

    C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\lib\site-packages\numpy\distutils\system_info.py:1542: UserWarning:
        Atlas (http://math-atlas.sourceforge.net/) libraries not found.
        Directories to search for the libraries can be specified in the
        numpy/distutils/site.cfg file (section [atlas]) or by setting
        the ATLAS environment variable.
      warnings.warn(AtlasNotFoundError.__doc__)
    lapack_info:
      libraries lapack not found in ['C:\\Users\\Liran\\AppData\\Local\\Programs\\Python\\Python35-32\\lib', 'C:\\', 'C:\\Users\\Liran\\AppData\\Local\\Programs\\Python\\Python35-32\\libs']
      NOT AVAILABLE

    C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\lib\site-packages\numpy\distutils\system_info.py:1553: UserWarning:
        Lapack (http://www.netlib.org/lapack/) libraries not found.
        Directories to search for the libraries can be specified in the
        numpy/distutils/site.cfg file (section [lapack]) or by setting
        the LAPACK environment variable.
      warnings.warn(LapackNotFoundError.__doc__)
    lapack_src_info:
      NOT AVAILABLE

    C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\lib\site-packages\numpy\distutils\system_info.py:1556: UserWarning:
        Lapack (http://www.netlib.org/lapack/) sources not found.
        Directories to search for the sources can be specified in the
        numpy/distutils/site.cfg file (section [lapack_src]) or by setting
        the LAPACK_SRC environment variable.
      warnings.warn(LapackSrcNotFoundError.__doc__)
      NOT AVAILABLE

    Running from scipy source directory.
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
      File "C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Temp\pip-build-47xsb0ek\scipy\setup.py", line 265, in <module>
        setup_package()
      File "C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Temp\pip-build-47xsb0ek\scipy\setup.py", line 262, in setup_package
        setup(**metadata)
      File "C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\lib\site-packages\numpy\distutils\core.py", line 135, in setup
        config = configuration()
      File "C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Temp\pip-build-47xsb0ek\scipy\setup.py", line 182, in configuration
        config.add_subpackage('scipy')
      File "C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\lib\site-packages\numpy\distutils\misc_util.py", line 1003, in add_subpackage
        caller_level = 2)
      File "C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\lib\site-packages\numpy\distutils\misc_util.py", line 972, in get_subpackage
        caller_level = caller_level + 1)
      File "C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\lib\site-packages\numpy\distutils\misc_util.py", line 909, in _get_configuration_from_setup_py
        config = setup_module.configuration(*args)
      File "scipy\setup.py", line 15, in configuration
        config.add_subpackage('linalg')
      File "C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\lib\site-packages\numpy\distutils\misc_util.py", line 1003, in add_subpackage
        caller_level = 2)
      File "C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\lib\site-packages\numpy\distutils\misc_util.py", line 972, in get_subpackage
        caller_level = caller_level + 1)
      File "C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\lib\site-packages\numpy\distutils\misc_util.py", line 909, in _get_configuration_from_setup_py
        config = setup_module.configuration(*args)
      File "scipy\linalg\setup.py", line 20, in configuration
        raise NotFoundError('no lapack/blas resources found')
    numpy.distutils.system_info.NotFoundError: no lapack/blas resources found

    ----------------------------------------
Command "C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\python.exe -u -c "import setuptools, tokenize;__file__='C:\\Users\\Liran\\AppData\\Local\\Temp\\pip-build-47xsb0ek\\scipy\\setup.py';exec(compile(getattr(tokenize, 'open', open)(__file__).read().replace('\r\n', '\n'), __file__, 'exec'))" install --record C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Temp\pip-ybdtaj2y-record\install-record.txt --single-version-externally-managed --compile" failed with error code 1 in C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Temp\pip-build-47xsb0ek\scipy\


From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 19 11:58:42 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 01:58:42 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <m1zisqyruk.fsf@iKarel.lan> <nf5eio$lrb$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.20.1461075365.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <f6942b3f-1281-4ae1-8779-2c1ea3368fa4@googlegroups.com>
 <571653aa$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <571655b4$0$1599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 01:50 am, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> - Is the effect due to chance? Remember, with a p-value of 0.05 (the
>   so-called 95% significance level), one in twenty experiments will
>   give a positive result just by chance. A p-value of 0.05 does not
>   mean "these results are proven", it just means "if every single
>   thing about this experiment is perfect, then the chances that these
>   results are due by chance alone is 1 in 20".

Arggh! The above is, of course, *wrong*. This is why statistical
significance is so hard. I know the correct interpretation[1] of p-values
and I still got it wrong.

p-values give the probability of a positive result by chance if the null
hypothesis is true, that is, the chances of getting a false positive
result. "We detected a difference that actually isn't there."

It *doesn't* tell you anything about a false negative result: "We failed to
detect a difference which actually is there." And it certainly doesn't tell
you the chances that the result are true.

More here:

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/odds-are-its-wrong



[1] At least, I'm confident I understand p-values with a 95% significance
level.


-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 19 12:05:54 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 02:05:54 +1000
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.105.1460912283.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <nv2dnTiHKYKNW47KnZ2dnUU7-RudnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <5713E8EA.1080801@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.112.1460922616.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnnhbta5.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <5715F785.4010005@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.6.1461057420.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnnhc34o.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <57165764$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:43 pm, Jon Ribbens wrote:

> Are you saying that Usenet posts skip the moderation entirely?
> 
> This whole thing seems a bit of a mess. What you really need to be
> doing is changing the Usenet group to be moderated, otherwise you're
> going to end up with two different views supposedly of the same thing
> which in fact may be completely different.

It's worse than that. There are many other places that mirror this group,
such as gmane, Activestate, bytes.com, gossamer-threads.com, and of course
Google Groups. They all have their own moderation and filtering policies,
which may differ from those of the others. Some of them may do only
mirroring, while others (including GG and gmane) may allow posting.


And yet, we manage to muddle on. If the plethora of mirrors with
inconsistent views is the worst that happens to us, I for one will be
amazingly happy.


-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 19 12:14:18 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 02:14:18 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:04 pm, Rustom Mody wrote:

> And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest of world
> has moved on is rather backward:

I'm pretty sure that the rest of the world has not moved on from text. Text
still makes up by far the bulk of human communication. It's compact (one
second of a Youtube video requires about the same bandwidth as about 7000
words), it can be easily searched, edited, translated, the presentation can
be changed to suit the reader, and more. When precision of meaning is
important, text is still the winner except in a few specialist areas, such
as technical drawings, and even they still make extensive use of text.



-- 
Steven



From info at egenix.com  Tue Apr 19 12:15:03 2016
From: info at egenix.com (eGenix Team: M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 18:15:03 +0200
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?ANN:_Python_Meeting_D=c3=bcsseldorf_-_27.04.2016?=
Message-ID: <57165987.4000903@egenix.com>

[This announcement is in German since it targets a local user group
 meeting in D?sseldorf, Germany]

________________________________________________________________________

ANK?NDIGUNG

                     Python Meeting D?sseldorf

                         http://pyddf.de/

       Ein Treffen von Python Enthusiasten und Interessierten
                    in ungezwungener Atmosph?re.

                  Dienstag, 27.04.2016, 18:00 Uhr
          Raum 1, 2.OG im B?rgerhaus Stadtteilzentrum Bilk
        D?sseldorfer Arcaden, Bachstr. 145, 40217 D?sseldorf

Diese Nachricht ist auch online verf?gbar:
http://www.egenix.com/company/news/Python-Meeting-Duesseldorf-2016-04-27
________________________________________________________________________

NEUIGKEITEN

 * Bereits angemeldete Vortr?ge:

   Matthias Endler
       "Protector - a Circuit Breaker for Time-Series Databases"

   Dr. Klaus Bremer
       "django-autotask"

   Jens Diemer
       "PyHardLinkBackup"

   Tom Engemann
       "Eine kurze Einf?hrung in Kivy"

   Johannes Spielmann
       "Symmetrische Verschl?sselung f?r alle!"

   Weitere Vortr?ge k?nnen gerne noch angemeldet werden: info at pyddf.de

 * Startzeit und Ort:

   Wir treffen uns um 18:00 Uhr im B?rgerhaus in den D?sseldorfer
   Arcaden.

   Das B?rgerhaus teilt sich den Eingang mit dem Schwimmbad und
   befindet sich an der Seite der Tiefgarageneinfahrt der D?sseldorfer
   Arcaden.

   ?ber dem Eingang steht ein gro?es "Schwimm' in Bilk" Logo. Hinter
   der T?r direkt links zu den zwei Aufz?gen, dann in den 2. Stock
   hochfahren. Der Eingang zum Raum 1 liegt direkt links, wenn man aus
   dem Aufzug kommt.

   Google Street View: http://bit.ly/11sCfiw

________________________________________________________________________

EINLEITUNG

Das Python Meeting D?sseldorf ist eine regelm??ige Veranstaltung in
D?sseldorf, die sich an Python Begeisterte aus der Region wendet:

 * http://pyddf.de/

Einen guten ?berblick ?ber die Vortr?ge bietet unser YouTube-Kanal,
auf dem wir die Vortr?ge nach den Meetings ver?ffentlichen:

 * http://www.youtube.com/pyddf/

Veranstaltet wird das Meeting von der eGenix.com GmbH, Langenfeld,
in Zusammenarbeit mit Clark Consulting & Research, D?sseldorf:

 * http://www.egenix.com/
 * http://www.clark-consulting.eu/

________________________________________________________________________

PROGRAMM

Das Python Meeting D?sseldorf nutzt eine Mischung aus Open Space
und Lightning Talks, wobei die Gewitter bei uns auch schon mal
20 Minuten dauern k?nnen ;-).

Lightning Talks k?nnen vorher angemeldet werden, oder auch spontan
w?hrend des Treffens eingebracht werden. Ein Beamer mit XGA Aufl?sung
steht zur Verf?gung.

Lightning Talk Anmeldung bitte formlos per EMail an info at pyddf.de

________________________________________________________________________

KOSTENBETEILIGUNG

Das Python Meeting D?sseldorf wird von Python Nutzern f?r Python
Nutzer veranstaltet. Um die Kosten zumindest teilweise zu
refinanzieren, bitten wir die Teilnehmer um einen Beitrag in H?he von
EUR 10,00 inkl. 19% Mwst, Sch?ler und Studenten zahlen EUR 5,00
inkl. 19% Mwst.

Wir m?chten alle Teilnehmer bitten, den Betrag in bar mitzubringen.

________________________________________________________________________

ANMELDUNG

Da wir nur f?r ca. 20 Personen Sitzpl?tze haben, m?chten wir
bitten, sich per EMail anzumelden. Damit wird keine Verpflichtung
eingegangen. Es erleichtert uns allerdings die Planung.

Meeting Anmeldung bitte formlos per EMail an info at pyddf.de

________________________________________________________________________

WEITERE INFORMATIONEN

Weitere Informationen finden Sie auf der Webseite des Meetings:

    http://pyddf.de/

Mit freundlichen Gr??en,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Apr 19 2016)
>>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
>>> Python Database Interfaces ...           http://products.egenix.com/
>>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ...           http://zope.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs :::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/
                      http://www.malemburg.com/



From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 19 12:15:52 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 02:15:52 +1000
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk> <57140947.3050902@gmail.com>
 <1460939260.3483225.581520729.146827C9@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.125.1460939269.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <57143f8b$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87r3e34h48.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <571659b9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 18 Apr 2016 03:32 pm, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:
> 
>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2016 10:27 am, Random832 wrote:
>>
>>> As an alternative, when you send them through can you put a note on
>>> the bottom saying they're not subscribed, to remind people to CC them
>>> in responses?
>>
>> That doesn't work so well from Usenet. I can reply via news (which
>> definitely works), or I can reply via email (which may or may not
>> work), but it is a pain to reply via *both*.
> 
> I don't like the Usenet+CC approach, but let's try it.
> 
> Did you get the CC, Steven.

Yes I did. I frequently have people CCing me. But that's not the problem for
me -- as I said above, it's a pain for me to SEND (not receive) via both
email and news.


-- 
Steven



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 12:46:09 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 09:46:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 9:44:39 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:04 pm, Rustom Mody wrote:
> 
> > And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest of world
> > has moved on is rather backward:
> 
> I'm pretty sure that the rest of the world has not moved on from text. 

Run your popular search engine on "popular linux apps" or some such and
you will get for example:

inkscape
gimp
blender
libreoffice writer/calc/prese
wireshark
skype
firefox
audacity
musescore
totem
vlc
dia

Do these look like text-based apps to you?

> Text
> still makes up by far the bulk of human communication. It's compact (one
> second of a Youtube video requires about the same bandwidth as about 7000
> words), it can be easily searched, edited, translated, the presentation can
> be changed to suit the reader, and more. 

Yes so you just showed that in the realm of multimedia we are somewhere 
nearabouts...  tickertape? Hollerith cards?
Doesn't change the basic structure of the human being
viz that 5 senses working in harmony make us more productive than one 
overworking rest languishing

> When precision of meaning is
> important, text is still the winner except in a few specialist areas, such
> as technical drawings, and even they still make extensive use of text.

Yes in the short to medium run our text capability remains better than others.
Those who want to keep it so forever are keeping the rest of us back....
fortunately futilely!


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 13:05:48 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 18:05:48 +0100
Subject: Failed install scipy lib
In-Reply-To: <08215756-d9f5-4dba-b710-ab8626ebfe27@googlegroups.com>
References: <08215756-d9f5-4dba-b710-ab8626ebfe27@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxTUtsjXx+RGtr6KuJTfbWo6idXCHq+SsPCeOz4SqccHyw@mail.gmail.com>

On 19 Apr 2016 17:01, <liran.maymoni at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> i'm trying to use:
> "py -m pip install scipy"
> and after couple of lines a get an error saying:

I thought that binary wheels for scipy would be available on pypi for each
OS now. Try updating pip and then using it to install scipy.

I'm not on Windows to check myself though I'm afraid.

--
Oscar


From larry.martell at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 13:06:29 2016
From: larry.martell at gmail.com (Larry Martell)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 13:06:29 -0400
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <571653aa$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <m1zisqyruk.fsf@iKarel.lan> <nf5eio$lrb$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.20.1461075365.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <f6942b3f-1281-4ae1-8779-2c1ea3368fa4@googlegroups.com>
 <571653aa$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CACwCsY6JUS7K0ZZDpd35x8BL2KRau6GNMKNtcvmKY814n36csA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 12:54 am, Rustom Mody wrote:
>
>
>> I wonder who the joke is on:
>>
>> | A study comparing Canadian and Chinese students found that the latter
>> | were better at complex maths
>
> Most published studies are wrong.
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/
>
> - Has that study been replicated by others? Have people tried to
>   replicate it? Were negative findings published, or do they
>   languish in some researcher's bottom drawer? (Publication bias
>   is a big problem in research.)
>
> - Was the study well-designed, and the given conclusions supported
>   by the study? How well did it survive the critical attention of
>   experts in that field? Did the study account for differences in
>   mathematics education?
>
> - Did the study have sufficient statistical power to support the
>   claimed results? Most published studies are invalid since they
>   simply lack the power to justify their conclusion.
>
> - Is the effect due to chance? Remember, with a p-value of 0.05 (the
>   so-called 95% significance level), one in twenty experiments will
>   give a positive result just by chance. A p-value of 0.05 does not
>   mean "these results are proven", it just means "if every single
>   thing about this experiment is perfect, then the chances that these
>   results are due by chance alone is 1 in 20".
>
> Anyone who has played (say) Dungeons and Dragons, or other role-playing
> games, will know that events with a probability of 1 in 20 occur very
> frequently. To be precise, they occur one time in twenty.
>
> Even if the claimed results are correct, how strong is the effect?
>
> (a) On average, Canadian students get 49.0% on a standard exam that Chinese
> students get 89.0% for.
>
> (b) On average, Canadian students get 49.0% on a standard exam that Chinese
> students get 49.1% for.
>
> The level of statistical significance is not related to the strength of the
> effect: we can be very confident of small effects, and weakly confident of
> large effects.

85% of all statistics are made up.


From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Tue Apr 19 13:13:20 2016
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 17:13:20 GMT
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <m1zisqyruk.fsf@iKarel.lan> <nf5eio$lrb$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.20.1461075365.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <f6942b3f-1281-4ae1-8779-2c1ea3368fa4@googlegroups.com>
 <571653aa$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <QGtRy.967956$Ux.659662@fx46.am4>

On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 01:50:00 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Anyone who has played (say) Dungeons and Dragons, or other role-playing
> games, will know that events with a probability of 1 in 20 occur very
> frequently. To be precise, they occur one time in twenty.
> 
Million to 1 chances happen 9 time out of Ten (T prachett - Varius 
Discworld books :-) )

> Even if the claimed results are correct, how strong is the effect?
> 
> (a) On average, Canadian students get 49.0% on a standard exam that
> Chinese students get 89.0% for.
> 
> (b) On average, Canadian students get 49.0% on a standard exam that
> Chinese students get 49.1% for.
> 
> The level of statistical significance is not related to the strength of
> the effect: we can be very confident of small effects, and weakly
> confident of large effects.





-- 
If anyone has seen my dog, please contact me at x2883 as soon as possible.
We're offering a substantial reward.  He's a sable collie, with three 
legs,
blind in his left eye, is missing part of his right ear and the tip of his
tail.  He's been recently fixed.  Answers to "Lucky".


From random832 at fastmail.com  Tue Apr 19 13:30:56 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 13:30:56 -0400
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
In-Reply-To: <57165764$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.105.1460912283.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <nv2dnTiHKYKNW47KnZ2dnUU7-RudnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <5713E8EA.1080801@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.112.1460922616.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnnhbta5.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <5715F785.4010005@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.6.1461057420.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnnhc34o.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <57165764$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1461087056.2618107.583507065.17E27E1D@webmail.messagingengine.com>



On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, at 12:05, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> It's worse than that. There are many other places that mirror this group,
> such as gmane, Activestate, bytes.com, gossamer-threads.com, and of
> course
> Google Groups.

Google groups goes through Usenet, and would be affected equally by any
solution to the usenet issue.

Gmane passes posts through normal email submission. It'd be mildly
irritating to have to be subscribed to be able to post through gmane,
but it wouldn't be the first group to have that requirement.

Gossamer threads and Activestate both appear to use the mailing list
archives and not allow posting.

Bytes.com appears to mirror *stack overflow*, not this list, unless I'm
missing something.


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Apr 19 13:43:21 2016
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 12:43:21 -0500
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20160419124321.361751dc@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2016-04-19 09:46, Rustom Mody wrote:
> inkscape
> gimp
> blender
> libreoffice writer/calc/prese
> wireshark
> skype
> firefox
> audacity
> musescore
> totem
> vlc
> dia
> 
> Do these look like text-based apps to you?

Well, let's take a look at their native file formats:

Inkscape: SVG

Libreoffice: compressed XML

Firefox: HTML+CSS+JS

Musescore: compressed text

Dia: compressed XML

While I haven't used Musescore, I have used the others and
hand-edited the files in each case.  Using vi/vim, or even ed(1).
Because I can, and sometimes because I have to in order to do some
convoluted process that would be a pain to do in a GUI.

For Gimp, Blender, Audacity, Totem, and VLC, those all deal with
binary streams of their content-type.

Skype being proprietary, it doesn't interoperate with bupkis.

So wireshark is the only outlier in my mind, though since it captures
binary packets, I suspect the native format is optimized for
streaming stuff from the NIC to the disk as fast as possible (though
given CPU and disk speeds, I would have figured that a gzipped stream
of text markup would be almost as good).

-tkc









From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Tue Apr 19 13:55:33 2016
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 17:55:33 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.105.1460912283.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <nv2dnTiHKYKNW47KnZ2dnUU7-RudnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <5713E8EA.1080801@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.112.1460922616.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnnhbta5.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <5715F785.4010005@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.6.1461057420.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnnhc34o.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <57165764$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <slrnnhcsf0.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>

On 2016-04-19, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:43 pm, Jon Ribbens wrote:
>> Are you saying that Usenet posts skip the moderation entirely?
>> 
>> This whole thing seems a bit of a mess. What you really need to be
>> doing is changing the Usenet group to be moderated, otherwise you're
>> going to end up with two different views supposedly of the same thing
>> which in fact may be completely different.
>
> It's worse than that. There are many other places that mirror this group,
> such as gmane, Activestate, bytes.com, gossamer-threads.com, and of course
> Google Groups. They all have their own moderation and filtering policies,
> which may differ from those of the others. Some of them may do only
> mirroring, while others (including GG and gmane) may allow posting.
>
> And yet, we manage to muddle on.

We've muddled on so far, but apparently we're just about to have
a significant change in moderation policy which sounds like it may
very well add to the confusion.

> If the plethora of mirrors with inconsistent views is the worst that
> happens to us, I for one will be amazingly happy.

Well indeed, the main reason I posted at all was because it sounded
like the new policy hadn't thought about Usenet at all and was about
to block Usenet posts completely. If that's not true then I'm more or
less happy ;-)


From marko at pacujo.net  Tue Apr 19 14:00:27 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 21:00:27 +0300
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk> <57140947.3050902@gmail.com>
 <1460939260.3483225.581520729.146827C9@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.125.1460939269.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <57143f8b$0$1612$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87r3e34h48.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <571659b9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <877fft4gxw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:

> On Mon, 18 Apr 2016 03:32 pm, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> Did you get the CC, Steven.
>
> Yes I did. I frequently have people CCing me. But that's not the
> problem for me -- as I said above, it's a pain for me to SEND (not
> receive) via both email and news.

GNUS does both at once (if requested).


Marko


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 14:05:39 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 11:05:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <mailman.31.1461088027.30862.python-list@python.org>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
 <20160419124321.361751dc@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <mailman.31.1461088027.30862.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0a63660e-e1b7-4478-92db-6a3d7cea5b07@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 11:17:23 PM UTC+5:30, Tim Chase wrote:
> On 2016-04-19 09:46, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > inkscape
> > gimp
> > blender
> > libreoffice writer/calc/prese
> > wireshark
> > skype
> > firefox
> > audacity
> > musescore
> > totem
> > vlc
> > dia
> > 
> > Do these look like text-based apps to you?
> 
> Well, let's take a look at their native file formats:
> 
> Inkscape: SVG
> 
> Libreoffice: compressed XML
> 
> Firefox: HTML+CSS+JS
> 
> Musescore: compressed text
> 
> Dia: compressed XML
> 
> While I haven't used Musescore, I have used the others and
> hand-edited the files in each case.  Using vi/vim, or even ed(1).
> Because I can, and sometimes because I have to in order to do some
> convoluted process that would be a pain to do in a GUI.


If you think xml/html is ok as replacement for text then we have no significant 
disagreement.
That is after all the main point of
http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/html-is-why-mess-in-programming-syntax.html
viz that program texts would be better off replacing text with hypertext.
[that html = Hyper Text Markup Language adds to the snark; but does not change
 the message]

The key difference between all the above and state of art in programming
languages is that lexing, parsing is in principle and possibly in practice
'outsourced' to generic XML tools.
With programming languages these are in silos in the innards of the language
implementation.
And so people typically studying compilers etc come to think of lexing and
parsing as important/key activities....
except for a few outliers like Marvin Minsky:
http://web.media.mit.edu/~minsky/papers/TuringLecture/TuringLecture.html


From liran.maymoni at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 14:18:23 2016
From: liran.maymoni at gmail.com (liran.maymoni at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 11:18:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Failed install scipy lib
In-Reply-To: <mailman.27.1461085552.30862.python-list@python.org>
References: <08215756-d9f5-4dba-b710-ab8626ebfe27@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxTUtsjXx+RGtr6KuJTfbWo6idXCHq+SsPCeOz4SqccHyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.27.1461085552.30862.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <188eba37-bf96-4d58-923f-96717d51325b@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 8:06:06 PM UTC+3, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
> On 19 Apr 2016 17:01, <liran.maymoni at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> > i'm trying to use:
> > "py -m pip install scipy"
> > and after couple of lines a get an error saying:
> 
> I thought that binary wheels for scipy would be available on pypi for each
> OS now. Try updating pip and then using it to install scipy.
> 
> I'm not on Windows to check myself though I'm afraid.
> 
> --
> Oscar

I tried.
updated pip but still having the same problem


From eryksun at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 14:20:31 2016
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 13:20:31 -0500
Subject: Failed install scipy lib
In-Reply-To: <CAHVvXxTUtsjXx+RGtr6KuJTfbWo6idXCHq+SsPCeOz4SqccHyw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <08215756-d9f5-4dba-b710-ab8626ebfe27@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxTUtsjXx+RGtr6KuJTfbWo6idXCHq+SsPCeOz4SqccHyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1auY7RKbS74zjHfagQ=YR4KSQT27tb=0yEjx0-JU7PufNg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Oscar Benjamin
<oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 19 Apr 2016 17:01, <liran.maymoni at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> i'm trying to use:
>> "py -m pip install scipy"
>> and after couple of lines a get an error saying:
>
> I thought that binary wheels for scipy would be available on pypi for each
> OS now. Try updating pip and then using it to install scipy.

PyPI only has Windows wheels for NumPy, not SciPy. You can use
Christoph Gohlke's unofficial packages:

http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#numpy
http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#scipy


From random832 at fastmail.com  Tue Apr 19 14:54:50 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 14:54:50 -0400
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <20160419124321.361751dc@bigbox.christie.dr>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
 <20160419124321.361751dc@bigbox.christie.dr>
Message-ID: <1461092090.2638611.583593041.7C981FAD@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, at 13:43, Tim Chase wrote:
> Well, let's take a look at their native file formats:
> 
> Inkscape: SVG
> 
> Libreoffice: compressed XML
> 
> Firefox: HTML+CSS+JS
> 
> Musescore: compressed text
> 
> Dia: compressed XML

None of those are "text" in the sense being discussed here, which is
"preferred method of viewing and editing is a text editor".

You could, for example, design a programming language that uses XML
markup to associate comments with specific positions in the code and the
editor displays them in little callout boxes when you hover over them
with the mouse. That's not done because of the notion that code has to
be plain text. The fact that the resulting format would still be a text
format that could theoretically be edited with a text editor isn't
relevant to this discussion.


From random832 at fastmail.com  Tue Apr 19 14:58:06 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 14:58:06 -0400
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
In-Reply-To: <slrnnhcsf0.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.105.1460912283.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <nv2dnTiHKYKNW47KnZ2dnUU7-RudnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <5713E8EA.1080801@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.112.1460922616.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnnhbta5.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <5715F785.4010005@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.6.1461057420.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnnhc34o.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <57165764$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <slrnnhcsf0.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1461092286.2639434.583597513.7C7B98F4@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, at 13:55, Jon Ribbens wrote:
> On 2016-04-19, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> > It's worse than that. There are many other places that mirror this group,
> > such as gmane, Activestate, bytes.com, gossamer-threads.com, and of course
> > Google Groups. They all have their own moderation and filtering policies,
> > which may differ from those of the others. Some of them may do only
> > mirroring, while others (including GG and gmane) may allow posting.
> >
> > And yet, we manage to muddle on.
> 
> We've muddled on so far, but apparently we're just about to have
> a significant change in moderation policy which sounds like it may
> very well add to the confusion.

It does look like some attention may need to be given to gmane (either
to allow posts to continue to be submitted, or to notify gmane that the
list should be put in "Non-public (posting through Gmane allowed for
list members)" mode.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Apr 19 15:01:35 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 12:01:35 -0700
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
In-Reply-To: <slrnnhcsf0.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.105.1460912283.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <nv2dnTiHKYKNW47KnZ2dnUU7-RudnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <5713E8EA.1080801@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.112.1460922616.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnnhbta5.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <5715F785.4010005@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.6.1461057420.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnnhc34o.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <57165764$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <slrnnhcsf0.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5716808F.8080801@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/19/2016 10:55 AM, Jon Ribbens wrote:
> On 2016-04-19, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

>> And yet, we manage to muddle on.
>
> We've muddled on so far, but apparently we're just about to have
> a significant change in moderation policy which sounds like it may
> very well add to the confusion.

The only thing changing is what happens if someone posts /directly/ to 
the mailing list (not through gmane, etc).

And the change is: Instead of passing the message through, with the risk 
that the poster will never see the responses), we are instead rejecting 
the post with a short explanation of how to either sign-up to the list, 
or use a mirror, etc, to interact with the list/newsgroup/mirror/whatever.

> If that's not true then I'm more or less happy ;-)

Excellent.

--
~Ethan~



From random832 at fastmail.com  Tue Apr 19 15:05:18 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 15:05:18 -0400
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
In-Reply-To: <5716808F.8080801@stoneleaf.us>
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.105.1460912283.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <nv2dnTiHKYKNW47KnZ2dnUU7-RudnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <5713E8EA.1080801@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.112.1460922616.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnnhbta5.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <5715F785.4010005@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.6.1461057420.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnnhc34o.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <57165764$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <slrnnhcsf0.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <5716808F.8080801@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <1461092718.2640693.583607497.6B3E1B28@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, at 15:01, Ethan Furman wrote:
> The only thing changing is what happens if someone posts /directly/ to 
> the mailing list (not through gmane, etc).

Is the mailing list software able to make that distinction? I thought
that was on gmane's end.


From amfarrell at mit.edu  Tue Apr 19 15:10:52 2016
From: amfarrell at mit.edu (Andrew Farrell)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 14:10:52 -0500
Subject: Failed install scipy lib
In-Reply-To: <188eba37-bf96-4d58-923f-96717d51325b@googlegroups.com>
References: <08215756-d9f5-4dba-b710-ab8626ebfe27@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxTUtsjXx+RGtr6KuJTfbWo6idXCHq+SsPCeOz4SqccHyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.27.1461085552.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <188eba37-bf96-4d58-923f-96717d51325b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CA+y5TLZpDBs0-tCq+s42r9Mo1_SrR_3_1+0JxLdGEiJj=g-7oA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Liran,

If your goal is simply to install SciPy on windows and not have to worry
about python packaging, your best bet is to go ahead and install Anaconda
<https://docs.continuum.io/anaconda/install#anaconda-for-windows-install>,
which comes with SciPy and a bunch of other libraries for scientific
computing.

If you don't want all the other libraries and only want scipy, you can
also install
miniconda
<http://conda.pydata.org/docs/install/quick.html#windows-miniconda-install> and
then run

conda install scipy

You can also create an isolated environment with

conda create --name scipy35 python=3.5 scipy
activate scipy35

All the best,
Andrew

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 1:18 PM, <liran.maymoni at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 8:06:06 PM UTC+3, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
> > On 19 Apr 2016 17:01, <liran.maymoni at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > > i'm trying to use:
> > > "py -m pip install scipy"
> > > and after couple of lines a get an error saying:
> >
> > I thought that binary wheels for scipy would be available on pypi for
> each
> > OS now. Try updating pip and then using it to install scipy.
> >
> > I'm not on Windows to check myself though I'm afraid.
> >
> > --
> > Oscar
>
> I tried.
> updated pip but still having the same problem
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Tue Apr 19 15:17:21 2016
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 20:17:21 +0100
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
In-Reply-To: <1461087056.2618107.583507065.17E27E1D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.105.1460912283.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <nv2dnTiHKYKNW47KnZ2dnUU7-RudnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <5713E8EA.1080801@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.112.1460922616.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnnhbta5.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <5715F785.4010005@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.6.1461057420.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnnhc34o.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <57165764$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1461087056.2618107.583507065.17E27E1D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <57168441.2030709@timgolden.me.uk>

On 19/04/2016 18:30, Random832 wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, at 12:05, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> It's worse than that. There are many other places that mirror this group,
>> such as gmane, Activestate, bytes.com, gossamer-threads.com, and of
>> course
>> Google Groups.
>
> Google groups goes through Usenet, and would be affected equally by any
> solution to the usenet issue.
>
> Gmane passes posts through normal email submission. It'd be mildly
> irritating to have to be subscribed to be able to post through gmane,
> but it wouldn't be the first group to have that requirement.
>
> Gossamer threads and Activestate both appear to use the mailing list
> archives and not allow posting.
>
> Bytes.com appears to mirror *stack overflow*, not this list, unless I'm
> missing something.

Just to be clear: GMane does some kind of header-munging to post on its 
users' behalf; GGroups comes in through usenet.

Very little is actually going to change. Really. (I'm almost sorry now I 
gave the explanation...). We're not disconnecting from Usenet, or GMane 
or anything else.

TJG


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Apr 19 15:21:42 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 12:21:42 -0700
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
In-Reply-To: <1461092718.2640693.583607497.6B3E1B28@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.105.1460912283.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <nv2dnTiHKYKNW47KnZ2dnUU7-RudnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <5713E8EA.1080801@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.112.1460922616.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnnhbta5.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <5715F785.4010005@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.6.1461057420.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnnhc34o.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <57165764$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <slrnnhcsf0.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <5716808F.8080801@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461092718.2640693.583607497.6B3E1B28@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <57168546.8000809@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/19/2016 12:05 PM, Random832 wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, at 15:01, Ethan Furman wrote:
>> The only thing changing is what happens if someone posts /directly/ to
>> the mailing list (not through gmane, etc).
>
> Is the mailing list software able to make that distinction? I thought
> that was on gmane's end.

As far as I understand it, mirrors/usenet are either simply allowed 
through (with spam checks), or the service has it's own user account.

--
~Ethan~


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Apr 19 16:50:51 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 06:50:51 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <854maxqq50.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com> writes:

> On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 9:44:39 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:04 pm, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > 
> > > And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest of world
> > > has moved on is rather backward:
> > 
> > I'm pretty sure that the rest of the world has not moved on from text. 
>
> Run your popular search engine on "popular linux apps" or some such and
> you will get for example:

That supports a claim of ?there are many programs available that
primarily manipulate something other than text?. You didn't make that
claim, so providing support for that is irrelevant.

Your actual claim is that ?the rest of the world has moved on from
text?.

You haven't supported that claim at all, and I see endless text everyday
in ?the rest of the world?. So your claim is false.

-- 
 \           ?I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I |
  `\        consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no |
_o__)  superhuman authority behind it.? ?Albert Einstein, letter, 1953 |
Ben Finney



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 16:59:30 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 06:59:30 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <854maxqq50.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
 <854maxqq50.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq37Z0uQoqOqKWM+gnztXjKVPhtsNuhJ7B5ykYGsjGPDg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 6:50 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>> > On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:04 pm, Rustom Mody wrote:
>> > > And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest of world
>> > > has moved on is rather backward:
>
> You haven't supported that claim at all, and I see endless text everyday
> in ?the rest of the world?. So your claim is false.

In this part of the world, I'm seeing a lot of emails/news posts that
consist of text. How does the rest of the world discuss important
topics? Is everything done with infographics and meme pics?

ChrisA
not that this is exactly an important topic, really...


From marko at pacujo.net  Tue Apr 19 17:35:05 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 00:35:05 +0300
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
 <854maxqq50.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmq37Z0uQoqOqKWM+gnztXjKVPhtsNuhJ7B5ykYGsjGPDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1461099573.30862.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87potl2sfq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 6:50 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au>
> wrote:
>>> > On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:04 pm, Rustom Mody wrote:
>>> > > And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest
>>> > > of world has moved on is rather backward:
>>
>> You haven't supported that claim at all, and I see endless text everyday
>> in ?the rest of the world?. So your claim is false.
>
> In this part of the world, I'm seeing a lot of emails/news posts that
> consist of text. How does the rest of the world discuss important
> topics? Is everything done with infographics and meme pics?

The "plain text" content type is used less and less. Really it is
reserved mostly to programmers. Even texters routinely field animated
emojies nowadays.

Text, in general, might have started to decline. I'm foreseeing a
not-too-distant future where only a smallish group of trained scribes
masters reading and writing. The remainder of the population will
consume and interact with animated pictures, videos, music, games etc.
Back to ancient Egypt.

Just look at the US presidential primaries, where the political
discourse seems to be centered on grunts, melees and simple slogans:

   ?We won the evangelicals,? Trump said. ?We won with young. We won
   with old. We won with highly educated. We won with poorly educated. I
   love the poorly educated.?

   <URL: https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-i-love-the-poorly-educated-144
   008662.html>

My point is not political; I'm only talking about the communication
media. The medieval populace regarded the Latin-spewing theologians with
awe. Maybe one day, the same superstitious respect will be afforded to
trained Python masters who can bend the machines to their will.


Marko


From sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 17:43:01 2016
From: sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com (sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 14:43:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <mailman.43.1461099573.30862.python-list@python.org>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
 <854maxqq50.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmq37Z0uQoqOqKWM+gnztXjKVPhtsNuhJ7B5ykYGsjGPDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1461099573.30862.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4a917863-6e92-4e30-912f-f4e4d3d31c20@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 1:59:48 PM UTC-7, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 6:50 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> >> > On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:04 pm, Rustom Mody wrote:
> >> > > And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest of world
> >> > > has moved on is rather backward:
> >
> > You haven't supported that claim at all, and I see endless text everyday
> > in "the rest of the world". So your claim is false.
> 
> In this part of the world, I'm seeing a lot of emails/news posts that
> consist of text. How does the rest of the world discuss important
> topics? Is everything done with infographics and meme pics?
> 
> ChrisA
> not that this is exactly an important topic, really...

Personally, I prefer smoke signals.  Range is decent, but the bandwidth is atrocious.


From Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid  Tue Apr 19 18:29:38 2016
From: Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid (Seymore4Head)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 18:29:38 -0400
Subject: Python path and append
Message-ID: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>

This doesn't work.  Does Python recognize hidden directories?

handle = open("\\Winmx\New$\q.txt")
for line in handle:
    line=line.strip()
    print line

    
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "\\Winmx\New$\add viewed.py", line 2, in <module>
    handle = open("\\Winmx\New$\q.txt")
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '\\Winmx\\New$\\q.txt'

What I would like to do is read a plain text file from a hidden
network drive and append a space and the * character to the end of
each line.

Would someone be so kind as to fill in the blanks to accomplish this
please?




From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 18:38:50 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 08:38:50 +1000
Subject: Python path and append
In-Reply-To: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrCne5sz_gVPY1Q4fAOFgm0rr0rJL4kEMgjnPyg6SW3MA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 8:29 AM, Seymore4Head
<Seymore4Head at hotmail.invalid> wrote:
>
> handle = open("\\Winmx\New$\q.txt")
> for line in handle:
>     line=line.strip()
>     print line
>
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "\\Winmx\New$\add viewed.py", line 2, in <module>
>     handle = open("\\Winmx\New$\q.txt")
> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '\\Winmx\\New$\\q.txt'
>
> What I would like to do is read a plain text file from a hidden
> network drive and append a space and the * character to the end of
> each line.

Start with this:

print("\\Winmx\New$\q.txt")

If that doesn't do what you expect, it's possibly because you want to
use a raw string literal to prevent the backslashes from being parsed.

handle = open(r"\\Winmx\New$\q.txt")

That might help you.

(One clue that this is happening is that some of your backslashes got
doubled in the error message.)

ChrisA


From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 19:21:24 2016
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 23:21:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Moderation and slight change of (de facto) policy
References: <5713C08F.3010207@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.105.1460912283.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <nv2dnTiHKYKNW47KnZ2dnUU7-RudnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <5713E8EA.1080801@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.112.1460922616.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnnhbta5.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <5715F785.4010005@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.6.1461057420.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnnhc34o.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <57165764$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <slrnnhcsf0.19u.jon+usenet@wintry.unequivocal.co.uk>
 <1461092286.2639434.583597513.7C7B98F4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <nf6ehk$2s1$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2016-04-19, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:

> It does look like some attention may need to be given to gmane
> (either to allow posts to continue to be submitted, or to notify
> gmane that the list should be put in "Non-public (posting through
> Gmane allowed for list members)" mode.

While there is such a mode, many lists that don't accepts posts from
non-memebers never inform gmane of it.  In my experience they usually
just discard non-member posts and send an email to the poster saying
that they only accept posts from membersk.

When that happens, you join the list, turn off delivery, and then go
back to gmane and post again.

--
Grant




From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 19:22:44 2016
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 23:22:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
 <854maxqq50.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmq37Z0uQoqOqKWM+gnztXjKVPhtsNuhJ7B5ykYGsjGPDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <nf6ek4$2s1$2@ger.gmane.org>

On 2016-04-19, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 6:50 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>>> > On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:04 pm, Rustom Mody wrote:
>>> > > And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest of world
>>> > > has moved on is rather backward:
>>
>> You haven't supported that claim at all, and I see endless text everyday
>> in ???the rest of the world???. So your claim is false.
>
> In this part of the world, I'm seeing a lot of emails/news posts that
> consist of text. How does the rest of the world discuss important
> topics? Is everything done with infographics and meme pics?

Emojis, one would assume.

--
Grant




From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 19:33:54 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 09:33:54 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <nf6ek4$2s1$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
 <854maxqq50.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmq37Z0uQoqOqKWM+gnztXjKVPhtsNuhJ7B5ykYGsjGPDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <nf6ek4$2s1$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqh91QqfSMGx-b2daLy_7TizrXEdenPe3HC7GtH+fc-8g@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Grant Edwards
<grant.b.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2016-04-19, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 6:50 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>>>> > On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:04 pm, Rustom Mody wrote:
>>>> > > And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest of world
>>>> > > has moved on is rather backward:
>>>
>>> You haven't supported that claim at all, and I see endless text everyday
>>> in ???the rest of the world???. So your claim is false.
>>
>> In this part of the world, I'm seeing a lot of emails/news posts that
>> consist of text. How does the rest of the world discuss important
>> topics? Is everything done with infographics and meme pics?
>
> Emojis, one would assume.
>

What, like characters in the U+1F300-U+1F64F codepoint range?

ChrisA


From mrabarnett at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Apr 19 19:36:52 2016
From: mrabarnett at mrabarnett.plus.com (Matthew Barnett)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 00:36:52 +0100
Subject: Python path and append
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrCne5sz_gVPY1Q4fAOFgm0rr0rJL4kEMgjnPyg6SW3MA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
 <CAPTjJmrCne5sz_gVPY1Q4fAOFgm0rr0rJL4kEMgjnPyg6SW3MA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5716C114.6000703@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-19 23:38, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 8:29 AM, Seymore4Head
> <Seymore4Head at hotmail.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> handle = open("\\Winmx\New$\q.txt")
>> for line in handle:
>>     line=line.strip()
>>     print line
>>
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "\\Winmx\New$\add viewed.py", line 2, in <module>
>>     handle = open("\\Winmx\New$\q.txt")
>> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '\\Winmx\\New$\\q.txt'
>>
>> What I would like to do is read a plain text file from a hidden
>> network drive and append a space and the * character to the end of
>> each line.
>
> Start with this:
>
> print("\\Winmx\New$\q.txt")
>
> If that doesn't do what you expect, it's possibly because you want to
> use a raw string literal to prevent the backslashes from being parsed.
>
> handle = open(r"\\Winmx\New$\q.txt")
>
> That might help you.
>
> (One clue that this is happening is that some of your backslashes got
> doubled in the error message.)
>
when printed out:

 >>> print "\\Winmx\New$\q.txt"
\Winmx\New$\q.txt

That's a file 2 directories down on the current drive.



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Apr 19 20:02:30 2016
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 19:02:30 -0500
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <1461092090.2638611.583593041.7C981FAD@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
 <20160419124321.361751dc@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <1461092090.2638611.583593041.7C981FAD@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <20160419190230.4da81b2e@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2016-04-19 14:54, Random832 wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, at 13:43, Tim Chase wrote:
> > Well, let's take a look at their native file formats:
> > Inkscape: SVG
> > Libreoffice: compressed XML
> > Firefox: HTML+CSS+JS
> > Musescore: compressed text
> > Dia: compressed XML
> 
> None of those are "text" in the sense being discussed here, which is
> "preferred method of viewing and editing is a text editor".

Well, my preferred method of "viewing" python code is /usr/bin/python

Authoring, editing, and consuming are all distinct actions.  Yes, a
lot of tools can use libpcap to interface with wireshark dumps, but
if your tool doesn't talk pcap, you can dump to plain-text (as Dennis
mentions doing...well, XML) which is the lingua franca of tool
development.

> You could, for example, design a programming language that uses XML
> markup

[shudders at remembering using a DSL "programming language" that was
XML]

-tkc




From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 19 20:32:25 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 10:32:25 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <dne6huFi9sfU1@mid.individual.net> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5716ce1b$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 02:46 am, Rustom Mody wrote:

> On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 9:44:39 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:04 pm, Rustom Mody wrote:
>> 
>> > And more generally that programmers sticking to text when rest of world
>> > has moved on is rather backward:
>> 
>> I'm pretty sure that the rest of the world has not moved on from text.
> 
> Run your popular search engine on "popular linux apps" or some such 

When you did that, did you do so by pointing and clicking on a menu of
symbolic icons, or by typing the text "popular linux apps"? 

When the search engine provides the search results for you, does it fetch up
a bunch of little pictures, or a list of text URLs with an extract of the
text from the site?

When I try it:

https://duckduckgo.com/html/?q=popular%20linux%20apps

I get text:

What Are The Best 10 Linux Desktop Apps?
This weekend, I'm going to be spending some time at the Southeast Linux Expo
(SCALE) and presenting at the Linux Beginner Training. I'm doing the
Desktops and ...
linux.com/learn/what-are-best-10-linux-desktop-apps

Lifehacker Pack for Linux: Our List of the Best Linux Apps
NOTE: This post is outdated. Check out the most recent Lifehacker Pack for a
more up-to-date list of essential Linux apps. Note that, unlike Windows and
OS X, Linux ...
lifehacker.com/5924951/lifehacker-pack-for-linux-our-lis...

20 Popular Ubuntu Linux Apps to Try Now | PCWorld
As Ubuntu Linux continues to grow in popularity, most discussions of it tend
to focus on the basics of the operating system itself, including
especially ...
pcworld.com/article/249663/20_popular_ubuntu_linux_ap...

and so forth.

The death of text as a communication medium is greatly exaggerated.


> and 
> you will get for example:
> 
> inkscape
[...]

How ironic that you are using a text-based medium to claim that people
have "moved on" from text. Why didn't you draw us a picture to make your
argument?



> Do these look like text-based apps to you?

Depends on what you mean by text-based.

I don't doubt that some popular applications are used for manipulating media
other than text, e.g. Gimp. But others are all about text: the two most
popular parts of the LibreOffice application suite are used for word
processing and spreadsheets, both text-based media.

Perhaps the most common use of photo editing software like Photoshop and
Gimp is to add text to images.

Even for applications that are used to generate non-text media, their UIs
are filled with text: menus and buttons display words, help screens filled
with text, status bars that display the current coordinates of the mouse as
text, dialog boxes filled with text boxes that you type into. When the UI
has controls which can be controlled by the mouse (e.g. sliders), the
control's value is usually displayed as text.

Even colour wheels invariably display their results as text, as RGB triples
or HTML codes.

You list Firefox (but neglect Thunderbird) but browsing the web is still
primarily a text-based medium. Not only is the fundamental file format of
the web (HTML) text, but the information displayed is more often than not
text. Even when the site displays non-text media, the pages usually include
a way for people to comment, which they do by clicking from a menu of
pre-defined emotions and messages displayed as icons.

Nah, just kidding. They comment by writing text.


I think that your assertion that the "rest of world has moved on" from text
to be nonsense on stilts, but *even if you were right* that doesn't imply
that programmers should do the same. Programmers operate under particular
constraints which the average podcaster or film-maker does not have to deal
with.

Just because some people communicate through the medium of interpretative
dance doesn't mean that programmers can or should.



-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 19 20:34:49 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 10:34:49 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
 <20160419124321.361751dc@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <1461092090.2638611.583593041.7C981FAD@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.34.1461092093.30862.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5716ceab$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 04:54 am, Random832 wrote:

> None of those are "text" in the sense being discussed here, which is
> "preferred method of viewing and editing is a text editor".


That's not the sense of being discussed here. How absurd. Why should a
letter containing nothing but text be classified as "not text" because it
was written in Microsoft World or LibreOffice rather than vi or emacs?


-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 19 21:03:19 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 11:03:19 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
 <854maxqq50.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmq37Z0uQoqOqKWM+gnztXjKVPhtsNuhJ7B5ykYGsjGPDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1461099573.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <87potl2sfq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <5716d558$0$1587$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 07:35 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> The "plain text" content type is used less and less. Really it is
> reserved mostly to programmers. Even texters routinely field animated
> emojies nowadays.

Who cares about "plain text" content type? That is not the beginning or end
of what counts as text. By that ridiculously limited definition, Python
progammers have already "moved on from text", because the MIME type of .py
source code is application/x-python.


> Text, in general, might have started to decline. 

o_O

People today, especially the young, probably send more text today than in
any previous time in history. You might have heard of something
called "SMSes"? Kids today spend half their day SMSing, twitting, posting
comments on Facebook, etc. 

And the other half taking selfies. *wink*

Anyone who thinks that we're heading back to hieroglyphics simply isn't
paying attention.




-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 19 21:38:42 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 11:38:42 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
 <20160419124321.361751dc@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <1461092090.2638611.583593041.7C981FAD@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.34.1461092093.30862.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5716dda3$0$1621$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 04:54 am, Random832 wrote:

> You could, for example, design a programming language that uses XML
> markup to associate comments with specific positions in the code and the
> editor displays them in little callout boxes when you hover over them
> with the mouse. That's not done because of the notion that code has to
> be plain text.

No, it's not done because the user interface of such a language would be
absolute bollocks.


The reason programmers use text for communicating with (1) other programmers
and (2) the computer is that text is still, and probably always will be, so
much better than any other media *for the purpose of programming* as to
make it no contest.

I'm sure that interpretive dance has its uses, but can you imagine the
computer infrastructure needed to make that practical for programming?

More seriously, there have been attempts to come up with "point and click"
interfaces for programming. The idea makes a sort of sense, if you think of
programming as a flow-chart (does anyone still use them?), but outside of a
handful of specialist areas, they have been a total, utter dead-end.

So-called "visual programming environments" (think: Visual Basic) are
well-suited to laying out the interface of GUI applications. They might
even be useful for extremely limited mini-languages like regexes. I'm told
that there are still people who think that UML diagrams are a good idea.
They're probably good for dataflow programming. But ultimately, to be
productive with one, you still need text.

As for "visual programming languages" (languages with an inherent visual
form which lacks any simple or obvious text equivalent), they've been a
dead-end. Even languages like Scratch cannot do without text. Look at
the "Hello World" program here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Scratch_Hello_World.png

The graphical elements are pure presentation, to make it more palatable to
children and beginners.

Don't think that I'm opposed to such visual presentations. Look at the
sample code shown at the top of the page here:

https://scratch.mit.edu/

It kinda looks like Hypertalk syntax, which some of you may remember I'm
exceedingly fond of. There's no reason why a GUI editor couldn't display
Python code using such "building block" structure. E.g. indented blocks
could use colour and shape cues to reinforce the structure of the code,
just as Scratch does.

And if you want to see another reason why text rocks as the core for
programming languages?


"Oh no! We're having trouble displaying this Scratch project.

If you are on a mobile phone or tablet, try visiting this project on a
computer.

If you're on a computer, your Flash player might be disabled, missing, or
out of date."

Yeah, thanks guys. Really helpful.



-- 
Steven



From random832 at fastmail.com  Tue Apr 19 21:57:05 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 21:57:05 -0400
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <20160419190230.4da81b2e@bigbox.christie.dr>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
 <20160419124321.361751dc@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <1461092090.2638611.583593041.7C981FAD@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <20160419190230.4da81b2e@bigbox.christie.dr>
Message-ID: <1461117425.2451657.583922609.0982EAB8@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, at 20:02, Tim Chase wrote:
> Well, my preferred method of "viewing" python code is /usr/bin/python
> 
> Authoring, editing, and consuming are all distinct actions. 

Viewing and executing are also distinct.

> > You could, for example, design a programming language that uses XML
> > markup
> 
> [shudders at remembering using a DSL "programming language" that was
> XML]

But I'm not proposing directly programming in XML markup. You'd use a
GUI.


From random832 at fastmail.com  Tue Apr 19 22:02:49 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 22:02:49 -0400
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <5716ceab$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
 <20160419124321.361751dc@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <1461092090.2638611.583593041.7C981FAD@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.34.1461092093.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <5716ceab$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1461117769.2452693.583923689.23F7301B@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, at 20:34, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> That's not the sense of being discussed here.

Yes it is - this started as a discussion of whether indentation and
alignment should be based on fixed spaces (as text editors support) or
dynamic tab stops (as any word processing format supports).

> How absurd. Why should a
> letter containing nothing but text be classified as "not text" because it
> was written in Microsoft World or LibreOffice rather than vi or emacs?

Because it's not _a text file_. It's not obligated to be devoid of
formatting markup or other metadata, or to have a perfectly flat
structure, or to be edited in programs whose design has not been updated
since the early 1970s, which are _exactly_ the complaints leveled
against python source code at the start of this discussion..

______ : Python :: MS Word : Plain Text


From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Tue Apr 19 22:20:43 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 19:20:43 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <CAGgTfkM41po9gWS=spn4+imqSczhnJsKdwBjBT0NHYpSW82JoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <CAGgTfkOR8e501zFfRXLgv3imVnbL7nBqKNGhc95rJVBPPwEYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <57145CB4.5040100@icloud.com>
 <CAGgTfkM41po9gWS=spn4+imqSczhnJsKdwBjBT0NHYpSW82JoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5716E77B.6030306@icloud.com>

On 4/19/2016 1:02 AM, Michael Selik wrote:

> Why relocate rather than remove? What message would you provide that's
> better than ``KeyError: 42`` with a traceback that shows exactly which
> dictionary is being used and how?

I think you misread my code. No dictionary exception occurs in the 
sanity checks. Below is the full function with the revised sanity check 
for positions that compares the input list with the two valid lists of 
board positions.


def generate_set(color, positions):

     if positions not in [VARS['COORDINATES'][VARS['BOARD_BOTTOM']],
                          VARS['COORDINATES'][VARS['BOARD_TOP']]]:
         raise Exception("List for positions contains no valid 
coordinates, "
                         "got {} instead.".format(positions))

     # generate objects according to color and position
     for position in positions:
         rank, file = position
         if rank in VARS['RANK_NOBILITY']:
             if file in VARS['FILE_ROOK']:
                 yield Rook(color, position)
             elif file in VARS['FILE_BISHOP']:
                 yield Bishop(color, position)
             elif file in VARS['FILE_KNIGHT']:
                 yield Knight(color, position)
             elif file is VARS['FILE_QUEEN']:
                 yield Queen(color, position)
             elif file is VARS['FILE_KING']:
                 yield King(color, position)
         else:
             yield Pawn(color, position)


> I meant, what goes wrong if the number of positions input is other than
> 16? Without these "sanity" checks, your functions might be reusable in,
> say, a checkers game.

Chess has 16 pieces (six types) on each side that are set up on the 
board in a particular order. Checkers has 12 pieces (one type) on each 
side that are set up on alternating squares in no particular order. 
Since I'm writing a chess engine because it has endless supply of 
programming changes, I have no desire to write reusable code for two 
similar but different games at the same time.

Thanks,

Chris R.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 22:21:50 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 12:21:50 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <5716dda3$0$1621$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
 <20160419124321.361751dc@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <1461092090.2638611.583593041.7C981FAD@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.34.1461092093.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <5716dda3$0$1621$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrWGpsXiUSUJ35xjFAaJLSBNs80onW4RwSHLSXsVFisZQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> As for "visual programming languages" (languages with an inherent visual
> form which lacks any simple or obvious text equivalent), they've been a
> dead-end. Even languages like Scratch cannot do without text. Look at
> the "Hello World" program here:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Scratch_Hello_World.png
>
> The graphical elements are pure presentation, to make it more palatable to
> children and beginners.
>
> Don't think that I'm opposed to such visual presentations.

Scratch itself is aimed at children, but there's a very similar
language (or maybe it's actually a Scratch derivative) used by the
Unreal Engine to animate sprites - the "blueprint" system. I've seen
it used by someone who doesn't consider herself a programmer in any
way, yet she has a sufficiently logical mind to do the same kind of
work as programming requires. Effectively, flow control has been
turned into a two-dimensional graph, with nodes pointing to other
nodes, but each node is still described primarily with text (using
colour to add instant recognition).

I think there's a lot of value in depicting flow control graphically.
For anyone who's accustomed to working visually, seeing nice little
tagged blocks of "stuff", linked by little lines to show how you get
from one to another, is way easier to handle than a page of "while"
and "if" and "else" statements. But even there, each piece of flow
control is *defined* in text - there's a short message saying what the
condition is, and then two or more pieces of text defining the
potential results of the condition, from which you can link to
destinations.

https://www.twitch.tv/ellalune/v/59455498 - starts at about the 41
minute mark. Notably, around the 00:42:30 point, I say that this is
code, and she says that, well, it sort of is code, but it doesn't
*feel* like code.

Probably the least text-y form of coding that I've ever seen is turtle
graphics, where you depict something using (usually) two dimensional
movement and rotation. But even there, it's normal to use text to
define all the actual actions. Take this, for example:

https://studio.code.org/s/frozen/reset

A nice tutorial, a theme that'll appeal to a lot of people (including
young children), and primarily point-and-click (or drag) to move
components around - but you can *read* the meaning of each component,
in *text*. Once again, it uses a visual representation of flow control
to bury some of the complexity, but the basic actions (move, turn,
etc) are text - and if you want to "capture" a series of actions to
reuse, the way to do that is to give it a name, because names and
words are how people think.

ChrisA


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Apr 19 23:23:32 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 23:23:32 -0400
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <5716dda3$0$1621$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
 <20160419124321.361751dc@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <1461092090.2638611.583593041.7C981FAD@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.34.1461092093.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <5716dda3$0$1621$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <nf6sp1$ern$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/19/2016 9:38 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> So-called "visual programming environments" (think: Visual Basic) are
> well-suited to laying out the interface of GUI applications. They might
> even be useful for extremely limited mini-languages like regexes. I'm told
> that there are still people who think that UML diagrams are a good idea.
> They're probably good for dataflow programming. But ultimately, to be
> productive with one, you still need text.
>
> As for "visual programming languages" (languages with an inherent visual
> form which lacks any simple or obvious text equivalent), they've been a
> dead-end. Even languages like Scratch cannot do without text. Look at
> the "Hello World" program here:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Scratch_Hello_World.png
>
> The graphical elements are pure presentation, to make it more palatable to
> children and beginners.

I think it is at least as important that the output is pictorial or even 
aural, then having the input text (and you are right, it is text) 
colored.  By comparison, factorial functions (and most calculation 
examples) are rather boring.

> Don't think that I'm opposed to such visual presentations. Look at the
> sample code shown at the top of the page here:
>
> https://scratch.mit.edu/
>
> It kinda looks like Hypertalk syntax, which some of you may remember I'm
> exceedingly fond of. There's no reason why a GUI editor couldn't display
> Python code using such "building block" structure. E.g. indented blocks
> could use colour and shape cues to reinforce the structure of the code,
> just as Scratch does.

That is an interesting idea.  Perhaps I have been stuck in either/or 
thinking -- either graphical or textual. With tk Text (IDLE), it would 
be possible to tag each (4-space) indent with a color for the compound 
statememt keywork causing the indent.

> And if you want to see another reason why text rocks as the core for
> programming languages?
>
>
> "Oh no! We're having trouble displaying this Scratch project.
>
> If you are on a mobile phone or tablet, try visiting this project on a
> computer.
>
> If you're on a computer, your Flash player might be disabled, missing, or
> out of date."

I had to enable Flash for this site.  What are they going to do when 
Flash is dead rather than just dying?  (Get with html5, perhaps?)

> Yeah, thanks guys. Really helpful.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 23:41:59 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 13:41:59 +1000
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <nf6sp1$ern$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
 <20160419124321.361751dc@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <1461092090.2638611.583593041.7C981FAD@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.34.1461092093.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <5716dda3$0$1621$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nf6sp1$ern$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqfo-jtvAUO=pqbY73aUE=ehtf9DG1DEX1_aR8qWuWFmw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>> It kinda looks like Hypertalk syntax, which some of you may remember I'm
>> exceedingly fond of. There's no reason why a GUI editor couldn't display
>> Python code using such "building block" structure. E.g. indented blocks
>> could use colour and shape cues to reinforce the structure of the code,
>> just as Scratch does.
>
>
> That is an interesting idea.  Perhaps I have been stuck in either/or
> thinking -- either graphical or textual. With tk Text (IDLE), it would be
> possible to tag each (4-space) indent with a color for the compound
> statememt keywork causing the indent.
>

Interesting indeed! Tell me if I've understood you correctly. You'd
display this code:

def func(x):
    for n in range(1, x):
        while n < x:
            if n % 2:
                n = (n + 1) * 3 / 2
            else:
                n = n * 2 + 3

with stripes of colour, with the entire first column of spaces all
tied to the "def", and then the next block of four tied to the "for",
etc? That'd be pretty cool, and a neat way to help people transfer
their skills from Scratch to Python.

(Would "else" be in the same colour as "if"? What about "elif"?)

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 23:50:11 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 13:50:11 +1000
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <5716E77B.6030306@icloud.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <CAGgTfkOR8e501zFfRXLgv3imVnbL7nBqKNGhc95rJVBPPwEYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <57145CB4.5040100@icloud.com>
 <CAGgTfkM41po9gWS=spn4+imqSczhnJsKdwBjBT0NHYpSW82JoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5716E77B.6030306@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrspoCLdNVRSg0StH2nt_cGO=1JgP2-06OzuFiYo6moVw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Christopher Reimer
<christopher_reimer at icloud.com> wrote:
> I think you misread my code. No dictionary exception occurs in the sanity
> checks. Below is the full function with the revised sanity check for
> positions that compares the input list with the two valid lists of board
> positions.
>
>
> def generate_set(color, positions):
>
>     if positions not in [VARS['COORDINATES'][VARS['BOARD_BOTTOM']],
>                          VARS['COORDINATES'][VARS['BOARD_TOP']]]:
>         raise Exception("List for positions contains no valid coordinates, "
>                         "got {} instead.".format(positions))
>
>     # generate objects according to color and position
>     for position in positions:
>         rank, file = position
>         if rank in VARS['RANK_NOBILITY']:
>             if file in VARS['FILE_ROOK']:
>                 yield Rook(color, position)
>             elif file in VARS['FILE_BISHOP']:
>                 yield Bishop(color, position)
>             elif file in VARS['FILE_KNIGHT']:
>                 yield Knight(color, position)
>             elif file is VARS['FILE_QUEEN']:
>                 yield Queen(color, position)
>             elif file is VARS['FILE_KING']:
>                 yield King(color, position)
>         else:
>             yield Pawn(color, position)
>

If you nuke the check at the beginning, what happens? (By the way, I
don't like this shouty "VARS" thing you have going on. It makes it
hard to skim the code. I'm not entirely sure what your initial "not
in" check is even doing.) You seem to have two slightly different ways
of checking things: first something about BOARD_TOP and BOARD_BOTTOM,
and then something else about RANK_NOBILITY and... everything else. It
looks to me like all you need is to have a second check for
RANK_PAWNS, and then raise an exception if it's neither of those. Then
you don't need to pre-check, and the rules aren't split into two
places.

But if I were doing this, I'd make it far more data-driven.

starting_positions = {
    VARS['FILE_ROOK']: Rook,
    VARS['FILE_BISHOP']: Bishop,
    ...
}

Or, even better, tie that to the definitions of your classes, in some
way. (Metaprogramming is great here.) Then your code doesn't need an
if/elif tree; you can generate starting positions easily by just
looking up your table.

BTW, it's usually best to not raise Exception, but a custom subclass
of it. But I'm going to assume that this is just an example.

ChrisA


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 00:04:43 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 21:04:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <mailman.34.1461092093.30862.python-list@python.org>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CAPTjJmrq-pFDGS14PE+FXx=B+fXBD-Pkqc9JdQrjULR9aXRSxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1460795561.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
 <20160419124321.361751dc@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <1461092090.2638611.583593041.7C981FAD@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.34.1461092093.30862.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <559dcbf9-5773-48d1-9a16-229ab91a4b82@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 12:25:09 AM UTC+5:30, Random832 wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, at 13:43, Tim Chase wrote:
> > Well, let's take a look at their native file formats:
> > 
> > Inkscape: SVG
> > 
> > Libreoffice: compressed XML
> > 
> > Firefox: HTML+CSS+JS
> > 
> > Musescore: compressed text
> > 
> > Dia: compressed XML
> 
> None of those are "text" in the sense being discussed here, which is
> "preferred method of viewing and editing is a text editor".

O you are so pedestrian!
Here let me show you how to enjoy beethoven9th.mp3 with emacs:

$ python -m base64 beethoven9th.mp3 > beethoven9th.txt; emacs beethoven9th.txt

Isnt it glorious?
And did you note the ?hi?, p?nac?e and e?an with with I demonstrated it?

[Yeah you guessed right: For me French consists of English ...um text.. with a squiggle
on every 3rd letter]


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 00:13:17 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 21:13:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <5716d558$0$1587$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
 <854maxqq50.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmq37Z0uQoqOqKWM+gnztXjKVPhtsNuhJ7B5ykYGsjGPDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1461099573.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <87potl2sfq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <5716d558$0$1587$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <61c4cfb9-65e7-4056-a048-8665a57f1d35@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 6:33:33 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Anyone who thinks that we're heading back to hieroglyphics simply isn't
> paying attention.

Which are just text in the range 13000-1342F:
http://unicode.org/charts/PDF/U13000.pdf


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 01:18:23 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 05:18:23 +0000
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <5716E77B.6030306@icloud.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <CAGgTfkOR8e501zFfRXLgv3imVnbL7nBqKNGhc95rJVBPPwEYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <57145CB4.5040100@icloud.com>
 <CAGgTfkM41po9gWS=spn4+imqSczhnJsKdwBjBT0NHYpSW82JoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5716E77B.6030306@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkM5qiaXMN2274YvHVDP57hd0jeFX1y+g+V7HmqdbjJb6A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 11:23 PM Christopher Reimer <
christopher_reimer at icloud.com> wrote:

> On 4/19/2016 1:02 AM, Michael Selik wrote:
>
> > Why relocate rather than remove? What message would you provide that's
> > better than ``KeyError: 42`` with a traceback that shows exactly which
> > dictionary is being used and how?
>
> I think you misread my code. No dictionary exception occurs in the
> sanity checks. Below is the full function with the revised sanity check
> for positions that compares the input list with the two valid lists of
> board positions.
>

Perhaps I did misread it. What is the purpose of the "sanity check"? If
it's not obvious I suggest revising the code rather than adding comments.

The first time I read your code, I thought the check was designed to avoid
the possibility of a KeyError a few lines later. My suggestion was to
simply allow bad inputs to cause KeyErrors and not clutter your code. This
second time I'm reading, it seems to be a sort of boundary check, but using
``in`` which would cause a bug... Did you mean to use an inequality?


> > I meant, what goes wrong if the number of positions input is other than
> > 16? Without these "sanity" checks, your functions might be reusable in,
> > say, a checkers game.
>
> I have no desire to write reusable code for two
> similar but different games at the same time.
>

Reusability is a nice side-effect of fewer "sanity checks". Other goals are
clarity, efficiency, and productivity.


From me at ixokai.io  Wed Apr 20 01:51:15 2016
From: me at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 22:51:15 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016, at 12:34 PM, Christopher Reimer wrote:
>      if color not in [VARS['COLOR_BLACK'], VARS['COLOR_WHITE']]:
>          raise Exception("Require \'{}\' or \'{}\' for input value, got 
> \'{}\' instead.".format(VARS['COLOR_BLACK'], VARS['COLOR_WHITE'], color))

Do you think it likely you'll receive a 'color' value not in the list of
black and white? Are you accepting colors from users? If you are, I'd
sanity check *at user input*. Users are crazy, sanitize and check the
heck out of their stuff.

Your code, though? Your time and effort is better spent putting in a
docstring documenting what's valid in color, and if some other coder
puts in red, why, they'll get a KeyError, and it'll point to precisely
what line is wrong, and be able to figure it out.

Unit tests are where you try feeding invalid data into functions and see
how they react-- and the correct reaction to bad data is usually
exceptions. In this case, a KeyError thrown by [VARS['COLOR_BLACK'],
VARS['COLOR_WHITE']][color] is more descriptive then your verbose
Exception.

(What's with the VARS business? Something smells bad there. You're doing
something weird there)

> How much sanity checking is too much in Python?

IMHO, you've got too much.

But that's a fuzzy question, there's no solid and clear answer. Did you
see Ethan's response? I largely agree with his trinity:

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016, at 10:26 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> I sanity check for three reasons:
> 
> 1) raise a nicer error message
> 
> 2) keep the point of failure close to the error
> 
> 3) the consequences of bad data are Bad Bad Things (tm)

With a 4)th that exceptions aren't for users, only programmers. But
ultimately, I'd rather a user see an exception if something weird goes
wrong because they can send it to me and I can diagnose it and push an
update. So I also:

4) Attempt to make sure all user errors result in user error messages,
not exceptions.

Note, 1) doesn't mean I always raise a nicer message, it means if
"KeyError" is ambiguious or odd, I raise a better and more informative
one. But you're getting nothing swapping out KeyError for
Exception(lotsofwords). 

I use 1) more to be less 'nicer' and more, er, 'more specific'. Since I
don't like exceptions to rise to the user level where niceness is
needed.

--Stephen
m e @ i x o k a i . i o


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Apr 20 02:08:19 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 02:08:19 -0400
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqfo-jtvAUO=pqbY73aUE=ehtf9DG1DEX1_aR8qWuWFmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
 <20160419124321.361751dc@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <1461092090.2638611.583593041.7C981FAD@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.34.1461092093.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <5716dda3$0$1621$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nf6sp1$ern$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmqfo-jtvAUO=pqbY73aUE=ehtf9DG1DEX1_aR8qWuWFmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <nf76dv$ioa$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/19/2016 11:41 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>>> It kinda looks like Hypertalk syntax, which some of you may remember I'm
>>> exceedingly fond of. There's no reason why a GUI editor couldn't display
>>> Python code using such "building block" structure. E.g. indented blocks
>>> could use colour and shape cues to reinforce the structure of the code,
>>> just as Scratch does.
>>
>>
>> That is an interesting idea.  Perhaps I have been stuck in either/or
>> thinking -- either graphical or textual. With tk Text (IDLE), it would be
>> possible to tag each (4-space) indent with a color for the compound
>> statememt keywork causing the indent.
>>
>
> Interesting indeed! Tell me if I've understood you correctly. You'd
> display this code:
>
> def func(x):
>     for n in range(1, x):
>         while n < x:
>             if n % 2:
>                 n = (n + 1) * 3 / 2
>             else:
>                 n = n * 2 + 3
>
> with stripes of colour, with the entire first column of spaces all
> tied to the "def", and then the next block of four tied to the "for",
> etc?

Exactly.

 > That'd be pretty cool, and a neat way to help people transfer
> their skills from Scratch to Python.
>
> (Would "else" be in the same colour as "if"? What about "elif"?)

To be determined ;-).  Perhaps different shades.  Scratch uses one color 
for all control: while, if, else, but that would not work for python 
with so much more nesting.  Scratch needs different colors for much 
broader categories as many are not for syntax but for groups of 
functions that in Python would be in imported modules.  I would like 
nested for loops to have slightly different shades, but I would not 
necessarily start with that, unless each compound statement got a new 
tag and color.

What makes the idea not completely ridiculous is that IDLE already keeps 
track of indents for its smart indenting and code context features.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Apr 20 02:09:39 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 23:09:39 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/19/2016 10:51 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:

> But that's a fuzzy question, there's no solid and clear answer. Did you
> see Ethan's response? I largely agree with his trinity:
>
> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016, at 10:26 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
>> I sanity check for three reasons:
>>
>> 1) raise a nicer error message
>>
>> 2) keep the point of failure close to the error
>>
>> 3) the consequences of bad data are Bad Bad Things (tm)
>
> With a 4)th that exceptions aren't for users, only programmers. But
> ultimately, I'd rather a user see an exception if something weird goes
> wrong because they can send it to me and I can diagnose it and push an
> update. So I also:
>
> 4) Attempt to make sure all user errors result in user error messages,
> not exceptions.
>
> Note, 1) doesn't mean I always raise a nicer message, it means if
> "KeyError" is ambiguious or odd, I raise a better and more informative
> one. But you're getting nothing swapping out KeyError for
> Exception(lotsofwords).
>
> I use 1) more to be less 'nicer' and more, er, 'more specific'. Since I
> don't like exceptions to rise to the user level where niceness is
> needed.

Yeah, that's a better phrasing for (1); I meant more appropriate or 
informative, such as swapping an internal error (such as KeyError) for a 
more meaningful FieldNotFound error (or whatever) -- largely library 
code concerns.

--
~Ethan~



From me at ixokai.io  Wed Apr 20 02:17:37 2016
From: me at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 23:17:37 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, at 11:09 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 04/19/2016 10:51 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> > I use 1) more to be less 'nicer' and more, er, 'more specific'. Since I
> > don't like exceptions to rise to the user level where niceness is
> > needed.
> 
> Yeah, that's a better phrasing for (1); I meant more appropriate or 
> informative, such as swapping an internal error (such as KeyError) for a 
> more meaningful FieldNotFound error (or whatever) -- largely library 
> code concerns.

Yeah, and what the OP is doing is going the exact opposite-- from a
more-specific exception (KeyError) to a more generic one (Exception).

To me that's (usually) an anti-pattern. 

--S


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Apr 20 02:39:09 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 18:39:09 +1200
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <61c4cfb9-65e7-4056-a048-8665a57f1d35@googlegroups.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
 <854maxqq50.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmq37Z0uQoqOqKWM+gnztXjKVPhtsNuhJ7B5ykYGsjGPDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.43.1461099573.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <87potl2sfq.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <5716d558$0$1587$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <61c4cfb9-65e7-4056-a048-8665a57f1d35@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dnomgfF824pU1@mid.individual.net>

Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 6:33:33 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>>Anyone who thinks that we're heading back to hieroglyphics simply isn't
>>paying attention.
> 
> 
> Which are just text in the range 13000-1342F:
> http://unicode.org/charts/PDF/U13000.pdf

Moreover, the Egyptian heiroglyphs are *not* pictograms,
they're a phonetic alphabet. It's a textual form of
writing just as much as ours is.

-- 
Greg


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 05:24:08 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 10:24:08 +0100
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <nf76dv$ioa$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
 <20160419124321.361751dc@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <1461092090.2638611.583593041.7C981FAD@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.34.1461092093.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <5716dda3$0$1621$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nf6sp1$ern$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAPTjJmqfo-jtvAUO=pqbY73aUE=ehtf9DG1DEX1_aR8qWuWFmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <nf76dv$ioa$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxSroD5Z=tR7SLjnJ03QZkeeC30WxZJ2aVa6+c91qAA-Eg@mail.gmail.com>

On 20 April 2016 at 07:08, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> On 4/19/2016 11:41 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It kinda looks like Hypertalk syntax, which some of you may remember I'm
>>>> exceedingly fond of. There's no reason why a GUI editor couldn't display
>>>> Python code using such "building block" structure. E.g. indented blocks
>>>> could use colour and shape cues to reinforce the structure of the code,
>>>> just as Scratch does.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That is an interesting idea.  Perhaps I have been stuck in either/or
>>> thinking -- either graphical or textual. With tk Text (IDLE), it would be
>>> possible to tag each (4-space) indent with a color for the compound
>>> statememt keywork causing the indent.
>>>
>>
>> Interesting indeed! Tell me if I've understood you correctly. You'd
>> display this code:
>>
>> def func(x):
>>     for n in range(1, x):
>>         while n < x:
>>             if n % 2:
>>                 n = (n + 1) * 3 / 2
>>             else:
>>                 n = n * 2 + 3
>>
>> with stripes of colour, with the entire first column of spaces all
>> tied to the "def", and then the next block of four tied to the "for",
>> etc?
>
>
> Exactly.

Take a look at bluej which is for Java. It surrounds different
constructs with different coloured rectangles. It also provides
UML-ish views of the classes in a project. My students seemed to like
it.

--
Oscar


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 05:26:16 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 10:26:16 +0100
Subject: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated
In-Reply-To: <5716dda3$0$1621$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CACwCsY5EG_RFHe8DMF4VStYCsSuO-gMC+KRx05q9=vu8aa3K9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.50.1460818461.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <CACwCsY5fLxQqG80POb=notQdC1T5crarf_aQ2VBkCT2fwZM-2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <netsjl$quf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAMB+yF0XcDSrPWPNYuwq7_99sas4eUoOJm7k-ymoFKDd85saow@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.151.1460986528.6324.python-list@python.org>
 <m18u0a1uxx.fsf@iKarel.lan>
 <a5f54de9-f1e7-4d37-a479-12c04728c84a@googlegroups.com>
 <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com>
 <5716595b$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3d95437c-6427-46d2-8e9f-470f121194cd@googlegroups.com>
 <20160419124321.361751dc@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <1461092090.2638611.583593041.7C981FAD@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.34.1461092093.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <5716dda3$0$1621$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxSiGXx+jpb_04U53qsQQkBG65BWNGybbsGh6dQB=Eh3rg@mail.gmail.com>

On 20 April 2016 at 02:38, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
>
> "Oh no! We're having trouble displaying this Scratch project.
>
> If you are on a mobile phone or tablet, try visiting this project on a
> computer.
>
> If you're on a computer, your Flash player might be disabled, missing, or
> out of date."
>
> Yeah, thanks guys. Really helpful.

Having a flash-enabled browser is a lower barrier to entry for most
people in the world than having a code editor and (being able to use)
say a terminal to run your code.

--
Oscar


From Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com  Wed Apr 20 05:28:37 2016
From: Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com (Joaquin Alzola)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 09:28:37 +0000
Subject: Xlms namespace
Message-ID: <HE1PR07MB135631A22E59C1644F33C569F06D0@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Guys

I am currently doing this:

IP client(Python) --> send SOAPXML request --> IP Server (Python)

SOAP request:
<soapenv:Envelope xmlns:soapenv="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/" xmlns:req="http:/
/request.messagepush.interfaces.comviva.com" xmlns:xsd="http://request.messagepush.interfaces
.comviva.com/xsd">
<xsd:text>test\ntest\ntest<{[??&%]}></xsd:text>

From my IP Client:
s.send(data_send.encode('utf-8'))

From my IPServer:
xml_decoded = data.decode('utf-8')
                              xml_root = ET.ElementTree(ET.fromstring(xml_decoded)).getroot()
                              for elem in xml_root.getiterator():
                                             if('{http://request.messagepush.interfaces.comviva.com/xsd}shortCode'==elem.tag):
                                                            shortCode = (elem.text).rstrip()
                                             if('{http://request.messagepush.interfaces.comviva.com/xsd}text'==elem.tag):
                                                            send_text = (elem.text).rstrip()
                                             if('{http://request.messagepush.interfaces.comviva.com/xsd}item'==elem.tag):
                                                            subscribers = (elem.text).rstrip()
                              result_sms = send_sms(subscribers,shortCode,send_text)

It is working fine but I am having problems with a couple of special characters, & and <

The problem:
<xsd:text>test\ntest\ntest<{[??&%]}></xsd:text>

It seems as if I send this: <> and the character & then I have a problem.
I need to use utf-8 as I need to make sure I get 160 characters in one SMS.

Error:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./ipserver.py", line 52, in <module>
    main()
  File "./ipserver.py", line 36, in main
    xml_root = ET.ElementTree(ET.fromstring(xml_decoded)).getroot()
  File "/usr/lib64/python3.4/xml/etree/ElementTree.py", line 1325, in XML
    parser.feed(text)
xml.etree.ElementTree.ParseError: not well-formed (invalid token): line 19, column 48
This email is confidential and may be subject to privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not copy or disclose its content but contact the sender immediately upon receipt.

From asimkostas at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 07:00:55 2016
From: asimkostas at gmail.com (asimkon .)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 14:00:55 +0300
Subject: djqgrid 0.2.4 error import json_helpers
Message-ID: <CA+9XG=PA+j_ajP2_rZYzRQs6dd4PfeL46R+TKM2R_Vzu6rt5=A@mail.gmail.com>

Hello!

I want to use this wrapper <https://pypi.python.org/pypi/djqgrid/0.2.4> for
a module in my Django 1.9.4 version. I have configured all the steps
mentioned successfully but in the end i get the following error message in
my browser:

Invalid template library specified. ImportError raised when trying to
load 'djqgrid.templatetags.djqgrid': cannot import name json_helpers


Inside my templatetags folder  (djqgrid.py),  i have the following commands:

from django import template
from djqgrid import json_helpers

Any idea to get a solution ?

I sent a few emails to the author of this wrapper but i have not got a
reply yet!

Regards
Kostas Asimakopoulos
Twitter @asimkon


From liran.maymoni at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 07:08:56 2016
From: liran.maymoni at gmail.com (liran.maymoni at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 04:08:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Failed install scipy lib
In-Reply-To: <mailman.33.1461090079.30862.python-list@python.org>
References: <08215756-d9f5-4dba-b710-ab8626ebfe27@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxTUtsjXx+RGtr6KuJTfbWo6idXCHq+SsPCeOz4SqccHyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACL+1auY7RKbS74zjHfagQ=YR4KSQT27tb=0yEjx0-JU7PufNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.33.1461090079.30862.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b6c95df-941d-41e7-8eb5-54b266cb5ce6@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 9:21:42 PM UTC+3, eryk sun wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Oscar Benjamin
> <oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 19 Apr 2016 17:01, <liran.maymoni at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> i'm trying to use:
> >> "py -m pip install scipy"
> >> and after couple of lines a get an error saying:
> >
> > I thought that binary wheels for scipy would be available on pypi for each
> > OS now. Try updating pip and then using it to install scipy.
> 
> PyPI only has Windows wheels for NumPy, not SciPy. You can use
> Christoph Gohlke's unofficial packages:
> 
> http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#numpy
> http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#scipy

Tried to install thouse packages and i'm getting the error:

scipy-0.17.0-cp35-none-win_amd64.whl is not a supported wheel on this platform.

i've also tried it with the versions:
scipy-0.17.0-cp27-none-win_amd64.whl is not a supported wheel on this platform.

scipy-0.17.0-cp34-none-win_amd64.whl is not a supported wheel on this platform.


I'm using win 10 x64. And python 3.5


From liran.maymoni at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 07:30:35 2016
From: liran.maymoni at gmail.com (liran.maymoni at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 04:30:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Failed install scipy lib
In-Reply-To: <3b6c95df-941d-41e7-8eb5-54b266cb5ce6@googlegroups.com>
References: <08215756-d9f5-4dba-b710-ab8626ebfe27@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxTUtsjXx+RGtr6KuJTfbWo6idXCHq+SsPCeOz4SqccHyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACL+1auY7RKbS74zjHfagQ=YR4KSQT27tb=0yEjx0-JU7PufNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.33.1461090079.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <3b6c95df-941d-41e7-8eb5-54b266cb5ce6@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f302b4c3-89b6-492c-86e0-0a51aff10cf1@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 2:09:10 PM UTC+3, liran.... at gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 9:21:42 PM UTC+3, eryk sun wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Oscar Benjamin
> > <oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 19 Apr 2016 17:01, <liran.maymoni at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> i'm trying to use:
> > >> "py -m pip install scipy"
> > >> and after couple of lines a get an error saying:
> > >
> > > I thought that binary wheels for scipy would be available on pypi for each
> > > OS now. Try updating pip and then using it to install scipy.
> > 
> > PyPI only has Windows wheels for NumPy, not SciPy. You can use
> > Christoph Gohlke's unofficial packages:
> > 
> > http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#numpy
> > http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#scipy
> 
> Tried to install thouse packages and i'm getting the error:
> 
> scipy-0.17.0-cp35-none-win_amd64.whl is not a supported wheel on this platform.
> 
> i've also tried it with the versions:
> scipy-0.17.0-cp27-none-win_amd64.whl is not a supported wheel on this platform.
> 
> scipy-0.17.0-cp34-none-win_amd64.whl is not a supported wheel on this platform.
> 
> 
> I'm using win 10 x64. And python 3.5

Ok i got it to install with the version:
scipy-0.17.0-cp35-none-win32.whl
I've also install this version:
numpy-1.11.0+mkl-cp35-cp35m-win32.whl

But when i try to run:
>>> from scipy.stats.stats import pearsonr

I get this error:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#3>", line 1, in <module>
    from scipy.stats.stats import pearsonr
  File "C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\lib\site-packages\scipy\stats\__init__.py", line 338, in <module>
    from .stats import *
  File "C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\lib\site-packages\scipy\stats\stats.py", line 180, in <module>
    import scipy.special as special
  File "C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\lib\site-packages\scipy\special\__init__.py", line 627, in <module>
    from ._ufuncs import *
  File "scipy\special\_ufuncs.pyx", line 1, in init scipy.special._ufuncs (scipy\special\_ufuncs.c:26242)
ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.


:(


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 07:43:44 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 21:43:44 +1000
Subject: djqgrid 0.2.4 error import json_helpers
In-Reply-To: <CA+9XG=PA+j_ajP2_rZYzRQs6dd4PfeL46R+TKM2R_Vzu6rt5=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+9XG=PA+j_ajP2_rZYzRQs6dd4PfeL46R+TKM2R_Vzu6rt5=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrF-QxBu_Axwu4D1pzkR_8mE_yFMHY5Z1V1R0_AvSSAng@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:00 PM, asimkon . <asimkostas at gmail.com> wrote:
> Inside my templatetags folder  (djqgrid.py),  i have the following commands:
>
> from django import template
> from djqgrid import json_helpers
>
> Any idea to get a solution ?
>

You're attempting to import from yourself, there. Is that what you
intend? Or should you be using a different name for one of those?

ChrisA


From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 08:34:41 2016
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 08:34:41 -0400
Subject: Just-in-Time Static Type Checking for Dynamic Languages  
Message-ID: <nf7t12$q32$1@ger.gmane.org>

I saw this article, which might interest some of you.  It discusses 
application to ruby, but perhaps might have ideas useful for python.

https://arxiv.org/abs/1604.03641



From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 09:04:52 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 14:04:52 +0100
Subject: Failed install scipy lib
In-Reply-To: <f302b4c3-89b6-492c-86e0-0a51aff10cf1@googlegroups.com>
References: <08215756-d9f5-4dba-b710-ab8626ebfe27@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxTUtsjXx+RGtr6KuJTfbWo6idXCHq+SsPCeOz4SqccHyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACL+1auY7RKbS74zjHfagQ=YR4KSQT27tb=0yEjx0-JU7PufNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.33.1461090079.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <3b6c95df-941d-41e7-8eb5-54b266cb5ce6@googlegroups.com>
 <f302b4c3-89b6-492c-86e0-0a51aff10cf1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxSButKM1KtVGO+UCHWQHi1q+_dKQXPDD_gzSbkX7LiGOQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 20 April 2016 at 12:30,  <liran.maymoni at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 2:09:10 PM UTC+3, liran.... at gmail.com wrote:
>> On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 9:21:42 PM UTC+3, eryk sun wrote:
>> > On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Oscar Benjamin
>> > <oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > On 19 Apr 2016 17:01, <liran.maymoni at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> i'm trying to use:
>> > >> "py -m pip install scipy"
>> > >> and after couple of lines a get an error saying:
>> > >
>> > > I thought that binary wheels for scipy would be available on pypi for each
>> > > OS now. Try updating pip and then using it to install scipy.
>> >
>> > PyPI only has Windows wheels for NumPy, not SciPy. You can use
>> > Christoph Gohlke's unofficial packages:
>> >
>> > http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#numpy
>> > http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#scipy
>>
>> Tried to install thouse packages and i'm getting the error:
>>
>> scipy-0.17.0-cp35-none-win_amd64.whl is not a supported wheel on this platform.
>>
>> i've also tried it with the versions:
>> scipy-0.17.0-cp27-none-win_amd64.whl is not a supported wheel on this platform.
>>
>> scipy-0.17.0-cp34-none-win_amd64.whl is not a supported wheel on this platform.
>>
>>
>> I'm using win 10 x64. And python 3.5
>
> Ok i got it to install with the version:
> scipy-0.17.0-cp35-none-win32.whl
> I've also install this version:
> numpy-1.11.0+mkl-cp35-cp35m-win32.whl
>
> But when i try to run:
>>>> from scipy.stats.stats import pearsonr
>
> I get this error:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#3>", line 1, in <module>
>     from scipy.stats.stats import pearsonr
>   File "C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\lib\site-packages\scipy\stats\__init__.py", line 338, in <module>
>     from .stats import *
>   File "C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\lib\site-packages\scipy\stats\stats.py", line 180, in <module>
>     import scipy.special as special
>   File "C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\lib\site-packages\scipy\special\__init__.py", line 627, in <module>
>     from ._ufuncs import *
>   File "scipy\special\_ufuncs.pyx", line 1, in init scipy.special._ufuncs (scipy\special\_ufuncs.c:26242)
> ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.

Maybe this is the problem:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/36489487/error-of-import-scipy-stats-for-windows-7

--
Oscar


From jldunn2000 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 09:57:11 2016
From: jldunn2000 at gmail.com (loial)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 06:57:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Running lpr on windows from python
Message-ID: <7ec37d41-61eb-4c93-ae21-28d108c261f1@googlegroups.com>

I am trying to run lpr from python 2.7.10 on windows

However I always get the error
'C:/windows/system32/lpr.exe ' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.

Even though typing the same at the  command prompt works OK


Any ideas?

I am using subprocess as follows

process = subprocess.Popen(commandline, shell=True, stdout=subprocess.PIPE, stderr=subprocess.PIPE)

where command line is
C:/windows/system32/lpr.exe -S 172.28.84.38 -P RAW C:/john/myfile


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 10:07:26 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 00:07:26 +1000
Subject: Running lpr on windows from python
In-Reply-To: <7ec37d41-61eb-4c93-ae21-28d108c261f1@googlegroups.com>
References: <7ec37d41-61eb-4c93-ae21-28d108c261f1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpXYPZ9OVhzs-fHT7kLUWts10V+vnjwq=1C1R=dwrDm_w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 11:57 PM, loial <jldunn2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am trying to run lpr from python 2.7.10 on windows
>
> However I always get the error
> 'C:/windows/system32/lpr.exe ' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
> operable program or batch file.
>
> Even though typing the same at the  command prompt works OK
>
>
> Any ideas?
>
> I am using subprocess as follows
>
> process = subprocess.Popen(commandline, shell=True, stdout=subprocess.PIPE, stderr=subprocess.PIPE)
>
> where command line is
> C:/windows/system32/lpr.exe -S 172.28.84.38 -P RAW C:/john/myfile

You''re running that through the shell, which means you have to abide
by shell rules. I don't have a Windows handy, but I'm pretty sure its
shell isn't happy with forward slashes in the command line; I might be
wrong there.

My recommendation: Split that into separate arguments, pass them as a
list, and remove shell=True. And unless you need to be completely
explicit for some reason (eg to protect against path-based exploits),
cut the first argument to just "lpr" and let the binary be found
anywhere.

ChrisA


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Wed Apr 20 10:08:49 2016
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 15:08:49 +0100
Subject: Running lpr on windows from python
In-Reply-To: <7ec37d41-61eb-4c93-ae21-28d108c261f1@googlegroups.com>
References: <7ec37d41-61eb-4c93-ae21-28d108c261f1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <57178D71.5050408@timgolden.me.uk>

On 20/04/2016 14:57, loial wrote:
> I am trying to run lpr from python 2.7.10 on windows
> 
> However I always get the error
> 'C:/windows/system32/lpr.exe ' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
> operable program or batch file.
> 
> Even though typing the same at the  command prompt works OK
> 
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> I am using subprocess as follows
> 
> process = subprocess.Popen(commandline, shell=True, stdout=subprocess.PIPE, stderr=subprocess.PIPE)
> 
> where command line is
> C:/windows/system32/lpr.exe -S 172.28.84.38 -P RAW C:/john/myfile
> 

Ummm.. Do you actually have a program called lpr.exe in that location?
It's not usual on Windows. (I rather assume you do since you give the
full path, but still...)

IOW, what happens if you type:

  dir C:\windows\system32\lpr.exe

at a command promopt?

Also: are you on a 64-bit system? If so, c:\windows\system32 probably
isn't where you think it is. cf, for example:

  https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-win32/2012-March/012121.html

TJG


From random832 at fastmail.com  Wed Apr 20 10:09:10 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 10:09:10 -0400
Subject: Running lpr on windows from python
In-Reply-To: <7ec37d41-61eb-4c93-ae21-28d108c261f1@googlegroups.com>
References: <7ec37d41-61eb-4c93-ae21-28d108c261f1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1461161350.2918798.584433545.40877410@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016, at 09:57, loial wrote:
> I am trying to run lpr from python 2.7.10 on windows
> 
> However I always get the error
> 'C:/windows/system32/lpr.exe ' is not recognized as an internal or
> external command,
> operable program or batch file.
> 
> Even though typing the same at the  command prompt works OK

It does? This command doesn't exist on my machine. It's not a standard
part of windows.

Just to check though, are you 64-bit windows, and 32 or 64 bit python?
(To find out what kind of windows, go to the system control panel - to
find out if python is 64-bit look at the value of sys.maxsize, it's
2147483647 on 32-bit systems and 9223372036854775807 on 64-bit)

> Any ideas?
> 
> I am using subprocess as follows
> 
> process = subprocess.Popen(commandline, shell=True,
> stdout=subprocess.PIPE, stderr=subprocess.PIPE)
> 
> where command line is
> C:/windows/system32/lpr.exe -S 172.28.84.38 -P RAW C:/john/myfile

If all you want to do is print a text file, see
http://www.robvanderwoude.com/printfiles.php - these commands may not
let you do whatever you're trying to do with that IP address though.


From jldunn2000 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 10:21:08 2016
From: jldunn2000 at gmail.com (loial)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 07:21:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Running lpr on windows from python
In-Reply-To: <7ec37d41-61eb-4c93-ae21-28d108c261f1@googlegroups.com>
References: <7ec37d41-61eb-4c93-ae21-28d108c261f1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a7e2d01-fcf3-4f14-9531-f19a96700cf3@googlegroups.com>

As I said, the lpr command works fine from the command prompt but not from python.

Everything is 64-bit (windows server 2012).



From jldunn2000 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 10:25:42 2016
From: jldunn2000 at gmail.com (loial)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 07:25:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Running lpr on windows from python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.26.1461161254.12923.python-list@python.org>
References: <7ec37d41-61eb-4c93-ae21-28d108c261f1@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmpXYPZ9OVhzs-fHT7kLUWts10V+vnjwq=1C1R=dwrDm_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.26.1461161254.12923.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6171cb8a-988a-49ea-a767-d73824685fea@googlegroups.com>

I get the same issue if I just specify "lpr" rather than a full path, i.e. it works from the command prompt(with forward slashes), but not from python 


From david.sims2 at nih.gov  Wed Apr 20 10:43:05 2016
From: david.sims2 at nih.gov (Sims, David (NIH/NCI) [C])
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 14:43:05 +0000
Subject: Creating Dict of Dict of Lists with joblib and Multiprocessing
Message-ID: <65DB2690-8988-41A7-B5BC-EA0390CDA1DF@nih.gov>

Hi,

Cross posted at http://stackoverflow.com/questions/36726024/creating-dict-of-dicts-with-joblib-and-multiprocessing, but thought I'd try here too as no responses there so far.

A bit new to python and very new to parallel processing in python.  I have a script that will process a datafile and generate a dict of dicts.  However, as I need to run this task on hundreds to thousands of these files and ultimately collate the data, I thought parallel processing made a lot of sense.  However, I can't seem to figure out how to create a data structure.  Minimal script without all the helper functions:

#!/usr/bin/python
import sys
import os
import re
import subprocess
import multiprocessing
from joblib import Parallel, delayed
from collections import defaultdict
from pprint import pprint

def proc_vcf(vcf,results):
    sample_name = vcf.rstrip('.vcf')
    results.setdefault(sample_name, {})

    # Run Helper functions 'run_cmd()' and 'parse_variant_data()' to generate a list of entries. Expect a dict of dict of lists
    all_vars = run_cmd('vcfExtractor',vcf)
    results[sample_name]['all_vars'] = parse_variant_data(all_vars,'all')

    # Run Helper functions 'run_cmd()' and 'parse_variant_data()' to generate a different list of data based on a different set of criteria.
    mois = run_cmd('moi_report', vcf)
    results[sample_name]['mois'] = parse_variant_data(mois, 'moi')
    return results

def main():
    input_files = sys.argv[1:]

    # collected_data = defaultdict(lambda: defaultdict(dict))
    collected_data = {}

    # Parallel Processing version
    # num_cores = multiprocessing.cpu_count()
    # Parallel(n_jobs=num_cores)(delayed(proc_vcf)(vcf,collected_data) for vcf in input_files)

    # for vcf in input_files:
        # proc_vcf(vcf, collected_data)

    pprint(dict(collected_data))
    return

if __name__=="__main__":
    main()


Hard to provide source data as it's very large, but basically, the dataset will generate a dict of dicts of lists that contain two sets of data for each input keyed by sample and data type:

{ 'sample1' : {
    'all_vars' : [
        'data_val1',
        'data_val2',
        'etc'],
    'mois' : [
        'data_val_x',
        'data_val_y',
        'data_val_z']
    }
    'sample2' : {
       'all_vars' : [
       .
       .
       .
       ]
    }
}

If I run it without trying to multiprocess, not a problem.  I can't figure out how to parallelize this and create the same data structure.  I've tried to use defaultdict to create a defaultdict in main() to pass along, as well as a few other iterations, but I can't seem to get it right (getting key errors, pickle errors, etc.).  Can anyone help me with the proper way to do this?  I think I'm not making / initializing / working with the data structure correctly, but maybe my whole approach is ill conceived?

From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Wed Apr 20 10:58:38 2016
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 15:58:38 +0100
Subject: Running lpr on windows from python
In-Reply-To: <7a7e2d01-fcf3-4f14-9531-f19a96700cf3@googlegroups.com>
References: <7ec37d41-61eb-4c93-ae21-28d108c261f1@googlegroups.com>
 <7a7e2d01-fcf3-4f14-9531-f19a96700cf3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5717991E.70309@timgolden.me.uk>

On 20/04/2016 15:21, loial wrote:
> As I said, the lpr command works fine from the command prompt but not from python.

Sorry; I did miss that.

> Everything is 64-bit (windows server 2012).
> 

Is the Python installation also 64-bit?

c:\python27\python.exe -c "import platform; print platform.architecture()"

If it is, then I'm not sure what's going on.

If it's not, then try copying the lpr.exe to c:\windows\syswow64 and try
again. (Or to some other place to which you have access).

TJG


From gvm2121 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 11:03:43 2016
From: gvm2121 at gmail.com (Gonzalo V)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 12:03:43 -0300
Subject: Failed install scipy lib
In-Reply-To: <CAHVvXxSButKM1KtVGO+UCHWQHi1q+_dKQXPDD_gzSbkX7LiGOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <08215756-d9f5-4dba-b710-ab8626ebfe27@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxTUtsjXx+RGtr6KuJTfbWo6idXCHq+SsPCeOz4SqccHyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACL+1auY7RKbS74zjHfagQ=YR4KSQT27tb=0yEjx0-JU7PufNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.33.1461090079.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <3b6c95df-941d-41e7-8eb5-54b266cb5ce6@googlegroups.com>
 <f302b4c3-89b6-492c-86e0-0a51aff10cf1@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxSButKM1KtVGO+UCHWQHi1q+_dKQXPDD_gzSbkX7LiGOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF40P_3gTVqqnjAW-b-iLJPn3oXrM=gkNpbT1PsVEGJ5HnrkAg@mail.gmail.com>

oscar
inst?late mejor anaconda y listo.

Saludos,
Gonzalo

2016-04-20 10:04 GMT-03:00 Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com>:

> On 20 April 2016 at 12:30,  <liran.maymoni at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 2:09:10 PM UTC+3, liran.... at gmail.com
> wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 9:21:42 PM UTC+3, eryk sun wrote:
> >> > On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Oscar Benjamin
> >> > <oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > On 19 Apr 2016 17:01, <liran.maymoni at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> i'm trying to use:
> >> > >> "py -m pip install scipy"
> >> > >> and after couple of lines a get an error saying:
> >> > >
> >> > > I thought that binary wheels for scipy would be available on pypi
> for each
> >> > > OS now. Try updating pip and then using it to install scipy.
> >> >
> >> > PyPI only has Windows wheels for NumPy, not SciPy. You can use
> >> > Christoph Gohlke's unofficial packages:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#numpy
> >> > http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#scipy
> >>
> >> Tried to install thouse packages and i'm getting the error:
> >>
> >> scipy-0.17.0-cp35-none-win_amd64.whl is not a supported wheel on this
> platform.
> >>
> >> i've also tried it with the versions:
> >> scipy-0.17.0-cp27-none-win_amd64.whl is not a supported wheel on this
> platform.
> >>
> >> scipy-0.17.0-cp34-none-win_amd64.whl is not a supported wheel on this
> platform.
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm using win 10 x64. And python 3.5
> >
> > Ok i got it to install with the version:
> > scipy-0.17.0-cp35-none-win32.whl
> > I've also install this version:
> > numpy-1.11.0+mkl-cp35-cp35m-win32.whl
> >
> > But when i try to run:
> >>>> from scipy.stats.stats import pearsonr
> >
> > I get this error:
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<pyshell#3>", line 1, in <module>
> >     from scipy.stats.stats import pearsonr
> >   File
> "C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\lib\site-packages\scipy\stats\__init__.py",
> line 338, in <module>
> >     from .stats import *
> >   File
> "C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\lib\site-packages\scipy\stats\stats.py",
> line 180, in <module>
> >     import scipy.special as special
> >   File
> "C:\Users\Liran\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python35-32\lib\site-packages\scipy\special\__init__.py",
> line 627, in <module>
> >     from ._ufuncs import *
> >   File "scipy\special\_ufuncs.pyx", line 1, in init
> scipy.special._ufuncs (scipy\special\_ufuncs.c:26242)
> > ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.
>
> Maybe this is the problem:
>
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/36489487/error-of-import-scipy-stats-for-windows-7
>
> --
> Oscar
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 11:17:31 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 15:17:31 +0000
Subject: Creating Dict of Dict of Lists with joblib and Multiprocessing
In-Reply-To: <65DB2690-8988-41A7-B5BC-EA0390CDA1DF@nih.gov>
References: <65DB2690-8988-41A7-B5BC-EA0390CDA1DF@nih.gov>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkNSJeV7dbm3L-wkeg0+AEDbX167m2Hfvi5JzePckZogPA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 10:50 AM Sims, David (NIH/NCI) [C] <
david.sims2 at nih.gov> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Cross posted at
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/36726024/creating-dict-of-dicts-with-joblib-and-multiprocessing,
> but thought I'd try here too as no responses there so far.
>
> A bit new to python and very new to parallel processing in python.  I have
> a script that will process a datafile and generate a dict of dicts.
> However, as I need to run this task on hundreds to thousands of these files
> and ultimately collate the data, I thought parallel processing made a lot
> of sense.  However, I can't seem to figure out how to create a data
> structure.  Minimal script without all the helper functions:
>
> #!/usr/bin/python
> import sys
> import os
> import re
> import subprocess
> import multiprocessing
> from joblib import Parallel, delayed
> from collections import defaultdict
> from pprint import pprint
>
> def proc_vcf(vcf,results):
>     sample_name = vcf.rstrip('.vcf')
>     results.setdefault(sample_name, {})
>
>     # Run Helper functions 'run_cmd()' and 'parse_variant_data()' to
> generate a list of entries. Expect a dict of dict of lists
>     all_vars = run_cmd('vcfExtractor',vcf)
>     results[sample_name]['all_vars'] = parse_variant_data(all_vars,'all')
>
>     # Run Helper functions 'run_cmd()' and 'parse_variant_data()' to
> generate a different list of data based on a different set of criteria.
>     mois = run_cmd('moi_report', vcf)
>     results[sample_name]['mois'] = parse_variant_data(mois, 'moi')
>     return results
>
> def main():
>     input_files = sys.argv[1:]
>
>     # collected_data = defaultdict(lambda: defaultdict(dict))
>     collected_data = {}
>
>     # Parallel Processing version
>     # num_cores = multiprocessing.cpu_count()
>     # Parallel(n_jobs=num_cores)(delayed(proc_vcf)(vcf,collected_data) for
> vcf in input_files)
>
>     # for vcf in input_files:
>         # proc_vcf(vcf, collected_data)
>
>     pprint(dict(collected_data))
>     return
>
> if __name__=="__main__":
>     main()
>
>
> Hard to provide source data as it's very large, but basically, the dataset
> will generate a dict of dicts of lists that contain two sets of data for
> each input keyed by sample and data type:
>
> { 'sample1' : {
>     'all_vars' : [
>         'data_val1',
>         'data_val2',
>         'etc'],
>     'mois' : [
>         'data_val_x',
>         'data_val_y',
>         'data_val_z']
>     }
>     'sample2' : {
>        'all_vars' : [
>        .
>        .
>        .
>        ]
>     }
> }
>
> If I run it without trying to multiprocess, not a problem.  I can't figure
> out how to parallelize this and create the same data structure.  I've tried
> to use defaultdict to create a defaultdict in main() to pass along, as well
> as a few other iterations, but I can't seem to get it right (getting key
> errors, pickle errors, etc.).  Can anyone help me with the proper way to do
> this?  I think I'm not making / initializing / working with the data
> structure correctly, but maybe my whole approach is ill conceived?
>


Processes cannot share memory, so your collected_data is only copied once,
at the time you pass it to each subprocess. There's an undocumented
ThreadPool that works the same as the process Pool (
https://docs.python.org/3.5/library/multiprocessing.html#using-a-pool-of-workers
)

ThreadPool will share memory across your subthreads. In the example I liked
to, just replace ``from multiprocessing import Pool`` with ``from
multiprocessing.pool import ThreadPool``.

How compute-intensive is your task? If it's mostly disk-read-intensive
rather than compute-intensive, then threads is all you need.


From sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 13:52:12 2016
From: sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com (sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 10:52:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Xlms namespace
In-Reply-To: <mailman.35.1461171872.12923.python-list@python.org>
References: <HE1PR07MB135631A22E59C1644F33C569F06D0@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <mailman.35.1461171872.12923.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c098c5b6-0091-448f-8538-5f1bcdf32f9a@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 10:05:02 AM UTC-7, Joaquin Alzola wrote:
> Hi Guys
> 
> I am currently doing this:
> 
> IP client(Python) --> send SOAPXML request --> IP Server (Python)
> 
> SOAP request:
> <soapenv:Envelope xmlns:soapenv="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/" xmlns:req="http:/
> /request.messagepush.interfaces.comviva.com" xmlns:xsd="http://request.messagepush.interfaces
> .comviva.com/xsd">
> <xsd:text>test\ntest\ntest<{[? EURO&%]}></xsd:text>
> 
> From my IP Client:
> s.send(data_send.encode('utf-8'))
> 
> From my IPServer:
> xml_decoded = data.decode('utf-8')
>                               xml_root = ET.ElementTree(ET.fromstring(xml_decoded)).getroot()
>                               for elem in xml_root.getiterator():
>                                              if('{http://request.messagepush.interfaces.comviva.com/xsd}shortCode'==elem.tag):
>                                                             shortCode = (elem.text).rstrip()
>                                              if('{http://request.messagepush.interfaces.comviva.com/xsd}text'==elem.tag):
>                                                             send_text = (elem.text).rstrip()
>                                              if('{http://request.messagepush.interfaces.comviva.com/xsd}item'==elem.tag):
>                                                             subscribers = (elem.text).rstrip()
>                               result_sms = send_sms(subscribers,shortCode,send_text)
> 
> It is working fine but I am having problems with a couple of special characters, & and <
> 
> The problem:
> <xsd:text>test\ntest\ntest<{[? EURO&%]}></xsd:text>
> 
> It seems as if I send this: <> and the character & then I have a problem.
> I need to use utf-8 as I need to make sure I get 160 characters in one SMS.
> 
> Error:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "./ipserver.py", line 52, in <module>
>     main()
>   File "./ipserver.py", line 36, in main
>     xml_root = ET.ElementTree(ET.fromstring(xml_decoded)).getroot()
>   File "/usr/lib64/python3.4/xml/etree/ElementTree.py", line 1325, in XML
>     parser.feed(text)
> xml.etree.ElementTree.ParseError: not well-formed (invalid token): line 19, column 48
> This email is confidential and may be subject to privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not copy or disclose its content but contact the sender immediately upon receipt.

If I had to make a guess, you need to escape the <, >, and &characters or else they'll get parsed by the XML parser.  Try sending "<xsd:text>test\ntest\ntest&lt;{[? EURO&amp;%]}&gt;</xsd:text>"


From k.seehart at partner.samsung.com  Wed Apr 20 15:34:24 2016
From: k.seehart at partner.samsung.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 19:34:24 +0000
Subject: PEP proposal: sequence expansion support for yield statement: yield *
Message-ID: <573e61523bfc412ca8674b06d70f2fd7@sraex01sc.sisa.samsung.com>

Currently the common pattern for yielding the elements in a sequence is as follows:

  for x in sequence: yield x

I propose the following replacement (the result would be identical):

  yield *sequence

The semantics are somewhat different from argument expansion (from which the syntax is borrowed), but intuitive: yield all of the elements of a sequence (as opposed to yield the sequence as a single item). This doesn't appear to have any syntactical collisions, as it is currently a syntax error.

Motivation: More compact notation, and the compiler can produce more efficient bytecode than the former representation (the loop overhead is omitted). This pattern is very common in recursive generators, so a compact notation would be nice.

Also, there is precedent: the proposed notation is implemented in javascript with identical semantics (though in javascript, the conventional spacing is different: yield* sequence ).

Examples:
  yield *(1,2,3)
... instead of :
  yield 1; yield 2; yield 3
... or:
  for x in (1,2,3): yield x


  yield *chain(seq1, seq2)
... instead of :
  for x in chain(seq1, seq2) yield x

~ Ken Seehart



From random832 at fastmail.com  Wed Apr 20 15:53:44 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 15:53:44 -0400
Subject: PEP proposal: sequence expansion support for yield statement:
 yield *
In-Reply-To: <573e61523bfc412ca8674b06d70f2fd7@sraex01sc.sisa.samsung.com>
References: <573e61523bfc412ca8674b06d70f2fd7@sraex01sc.sisa.samsung.com>
Message-ID: <1461182024.3047115.584804185.6B0800F9@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016, at 15:34, Ken Seehart wrote:
> Currently the common pattern for yielding the elements in a sequence is
> as follows:
> 
>   for x in sequence: yield x
> 
> I propose the following replacement (the result would be identical):
> 
>   yield *sequence

yield from sequence


From alanoe at linux.vnet.ibm.com  Wed Apr 20 15:54:48 2016
From: alanoe at linux.vnet.ibm.com (Alan Evangelista)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 16:54:48 -0300
Subject: PEP proposal: sequence expansion support for yield statement:
 yield *
In-Reply-To: <573e61523bfc412ca8674b06d70f2fd7@sraex01sc.sisa.samsung.com>
References: <573e61523bfc412ca8674b06d70f2fd7@sraex01sc.sisa.samsung.com>
Message-ID: <5717DE88.4070807@linux.vnet.ibm.com>


> Currently the common pattern for yielding the elements in a sequence is as follows:
>
>    for x in sequence: yield x
>
> I propose the following replacement (the result would be identical):
>
>    yield *sequence

imho the current syntax is much more intuitive, it is obvious to infer what it does
by looking at it. I favor a more intuitive syntax over a more concise one.


Regards,
Alan Evangelista


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Apr 20 16:01:35 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 13:01:35 -0700
Subject: PEP proposal: sequence expansion support for yield statement:
 yield *
In-Reply-To: <573e61523bfc412ca8674b06d70f2fd7@sraex01sc.sisa.samsung.com>
References: <573e61523bfc412ca8674b06d70f2fd7@sraex01sc.sisa.samsung.com>
Message-ID: <5717E01F.3020804@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/20/2016 12:34 PM, Ken Seehart wrote:

New ideas for Python are typically vetted on Python Ideas. [1]

> Currently the common pattern for yielding the elements in a sequence
 > is as follows:
>
>    for x in sequence: yield x
>
> I propose the following replacement (the result would be identical):
>
>    yield *sequence
>
> The semantics are somewhat different from argument expansion (from
 > which the syntax is borrowed), but intuitive: yield all of the elements
 > of a sequence (as opposed to yield the sequence as a single item).

Your examples do not make clear what your result should be.  If you mean 
the results are exactly the same you can get that behavior with

     yield from iter(x)

which, while being slightly longer, has the advantage of already 
working.  ;)

--
~Ethan~

[1] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas


From me+python at ixokai.io  Wed Apr 20 17:01:59 2016
From: me+python at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 14:01:59 -0700
Subject: Running lpr on windows from python
In-Reply-To: <7ec37d41-61eb-4c93-ae21-28d108c261f1@googlegroups.com>
References: <7ec37d41-61eb-4c93-ae21-28d108c261f1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1461186119.52599.584860929.759DC943@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016, at 06:57 AM, loial wrote:
> process = subprocess.Popen(commandline, shell=True,
> stdout=subprocess.PIPE, stderr=subprocess.PIPE)
> 
> where command line is
> C:/windows/system32/lpr.exe -S 172.28.84.38 -P RAW C:/john/myfile

Try making command line:
commandline = r"C:\windows\system32\lpr.exe -S 172.28.84.38 -P RAW
C:\john\myfile"

The r in front of the string makes it a raw string so you don't have to
double up the slashes.

---
Stephen Hansen
  m e @ i x o k a i . i o


From Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com  Wed Apr 20 17:43:43 2016
From: Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com (Joaquin Alzola)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 21:43:43 +0000
Subject: Xlms namespace
In-Reply-To: <c098c5b6-0091-448f-8538-5f1bcdf32f9a@googlegroups.com>
References: <HE1PR07MB135631A22E59C1644F33C569F06D0@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <mailman.35.1461171872.12923.python-list@python.org>
 <c098c5b6-0091-448f-8538-5f1bcdf32f9a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR07MB135679FC258CEB5208E78759F06D0@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>

>> The problem:
>> <xsd:text>test\ntest\ntest<{[? EURO&%]}></xsd:text>

>If I had to make a guess, you need to escape the <, >, and &characters or else they'll get parsed by the XML parser.  Try sending "<xsd:text>test\ntest\ntest&lt;{[? EURO&amp;%>]}&gt;</xsd:text>"

Yes it is the xml itself.

Putting the &amp; and also the &lt; I can make it work with the desire characters

So the result: test\ntest\ntest&lt;{[?&amp;?%]}>

Will print < and also &.

Thanks.
This email is confidential and may be subject to privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not copy or disclose its content but contact the sender immediately upon receipt.

From kenseehart at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 18:26:31 2016
From: kenseehart at gmail.com (kenseehart at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 15:26:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PEP proposal: sequence expansion support for yield statement:
 yield *
In-Reply-To: <mailman.38.1461182430.12923.python-list@python.org>
References: <573e61523bfc412ca8674b06d70f2fd7@sraex01sc.sisa.samsung.com>
 <5717E01F.3020804@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.38.1461182430.12923.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a01d99fa-b794-4a69-a29c-c902256d50db@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 1:00:45 PM UTC-7, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 04/20/2016 12:34 PM, Ken Seehart wrote:
> 
> New ideas for Python are typically vetted on Python Ideas. [1]
> 
> > Currently the common pattern for yielding the elements in a sequence
>  > is as follows:
> >
> >    for x in sequence: yield x
> >
> > I propose the following replacement (the result would be identical):
> >
> >    yield *sequence
> >
> > The semantics are somewhat different from argument expansion (from
>  > which the syntax is borrowed), but intuitive: yield all of the elements
>  > of a sequence (as opposed to yield the sequence as a single item).
> 
> Your examples do not make clear what your result should be.  If you mean 
> the results are exactly the same you can get that behavior with
> 
>      yield from iter(x)
> 
> which, while being slightly longer, has the advantage of already 
> working.  ;)
> 
> --
> ~Ethan~
> 
> [1] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas

To be clear, the comment "...(the result would be identical)" is indicative that the result would be identical, meaning "exactly the same".

Anyway, thanks for the link. And I suppose checking Python 3 for implementation would be a good prior step as well! Sadly, "yield from" is not in python 2.7, but it's presence in python 3.3 renders my proposal dead as a parrot without a liver.

Regards,
Ken


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 19:23:58 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 09:23:58 +1000
Subject: PEP proposal: sequence expansion support for yield statement:
 yield *
In-Reply-To: <a01d99fa-b794-4a69-a29c-c902256d50db@googlegroups.com>
References: <573e61523bfc412ca8674b06d70f2fd7@sraex01sc.sisa.samsung.com>
 <5717E01F.3020804@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.38.1461182430.12923.python-list@python.org>
 <a01d99fa-b794-4a69-a29c-c902256d50db@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrHggH0JV=0H1pAyT=Hu3i+=bEYBPPO878rgMhm=H1Nxw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 8:26 AM,  <kenseehart at gmail.com> wrote:
> Anyway, thanks for the link. And I suppose checking Python 3 for implementation would be a good prior step as well! Sadly, "yield from" is not in python 2.7, but it's presence in python 3.3 renders my proposal dead as a parrot without a liver.
>

This is what happens when you make proposals. Guido van Rossum has a
time machine, and he'll go back in time, implement the feature, and
quietly come back here :)

Keep on thinking about what would make the language better. Ideas are
great! But do remember to check the latest version of Python
(currently 3.5, with 3.6 in development); no new features will be
added to 2.7. In fact, I'd recommend making the switch to 3.5 as soon
as possible; you'll gain quite a few cool new features.

All the best!

ChrisA


From steve at pearwood.info  Wed Apr 20 20:21:31 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 10:21:31 +1000
Subject: PEP proposal: sequence expansion support for yield statement:
 yield *
References: <573e61523bfc412ca8674b06d70f2fd7@sraex01sc.sisa.samsung.com>
 <mailman.36.1461181657.12923.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57181d0e$0$1591$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 05:34 am, Ken Seehart wrote:

> Currently the common pattern for yielding the elements in a sequence is as
> follows:
> 
>   for x in sequence: yield x
> 
> I propose the following replacement (the result would be identical):
> 
>   yield *sequence

Others have already pointed out that this already exists as "yield from
iter(sequence)", but I'd like to say that this syntax was not added merely
to shorten the "for x in sequence: yield x" idiom.

In its simplest case, "yield from expr" is equivalent to "for x in expr:
yield x", and it is completely reasonable to use it for such simple
purposes. But that's not why it was added to the language, and if that's
*all* it did, it probably wouldn't have been.

Rather, "yield from" was added to support the full set of generator
behaviour, including their send(), close() and throw() methods. That
makes "yield from expr" equivalent to this rather formidable chunk of code:



_i = iter(EXPR)
try:
    _y = next(_i)
except StopIteration as _e:
    _r = _e.value
else:
    while 1:
        try:
            _s = yield _y
        except GeneratorExit as _e:
            try:
                _m = _i.close
            except AttributeError:
                pass
            else:
                _m()
            raise _e
        except BaseException as _e:
            _x = sys.exc_info()
            try:
                _m = _i.throw
            except AttributeError:
                raise _e
            else:
                try:
                    _y = _m(*_x)
                except StopIteration as _e:
                    _r = _e.value
                    break
        else:
            try:
                if _s is None:
                    _y = next(_i)
                else:
                    _y = _i.send(_s)
            except StopIteration as _e:
                _r = _e.value
                break
RESULT = _r




See PEP 380 for more info:

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0380/


-- 
Steven



From eryksun at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 22:05:06 2016
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 21:05:06 -0500
Subject: Failed install scipy lib
In-Reply-To: <CAHVvXxSButKM1KtVGO+UCHWQHi1q+_dKQXPDD_gzSbkX7LiGOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <08215756-d9f5-4dba-b710-ab8626ebfe27@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxTUtsjXx+RGtr6KuJTfbWo6idXCHq+SsPCeOz4SqccHyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACL+1auY7RKbS74zjHfagQ=YR4KSQT27tb=0yEjx0-JU7PufNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.33.1461090079.30862.python-list@python.org>
 <3b6c95df-941d-41e7-8eb5-54b266cb5ce6@googlegroups.com>
 <f302b4c3-89b6-492c-86e0-0a51aff10cf1@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHVvXxSButKM1KtVGO+UCHWQHi1q+_dKQXPDD_gzSbkX7LiGOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1at+tE4H_WdNZ1nSizu+HSK=m8hnNC6AF-ggMrivvQ0x8w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Oscar Benjamin
<oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 20 April 2016 at 12:30,  <liran.maymoni at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>     from ._ufuncs import *
>>   File "scipy\special\_ufuncs.pyx", line 1, in init scipy.special._ufuncs (scipy\special\_ufuncs.c:26242)
>> ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.
>
> Maybe this is the problem:
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/36489487/error-of-import-scipy-stats-for-windows-7

Here's the link for the VC++ Redistributable for VS 2015. Try
installing the 32-bit version.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=48145


From steve at pearwood.info  Wed Apr 20 23:07:36 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 13:07:36 +1000
Subject: Detecting repeated subsequences of identical items
Message-ID: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

I want to group repeated items in a sequence. For example, I can group
repeated sequences of a single item at a time using groupby:


from itertools import groupby
for key, group in groupby("AAAABBCDDEEEFFFF"):
    group = list(group)
    print(key, "count =", len(group))


outputs:

A count = 4
B count = 2
C count = 1
D count = 2
E count = 3
F count = 4


Now I want to group subsequences. For example, I have:

"ABCABCABCDEABCDEFABCABCABCB"

and I want to group it into repeating subsequences. I can see two ways to
group it:

ABC ABC ABCDE ABCDE F ABC ABC ABC B

giving counts:

(ABC) count = 2
(ABCDE) count = 2
F count = 1
(ABC) count = 3
B repeats 1 time


or:

ABC ABC ABC D E A B C D E F ABC ABC ABC B

giving counts:

(ABC) count = 3
D count = 1
E count = 1
A count = 1
B count = 1
C count = 1
D count = 1
E count = 1
F count = 1
(ABC) count = 3
B count = 1



How can I do this? Does this problem have a standard name and/or solution?




-- 
Steven



From eryksun at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 23:10:47 2016
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 22:10:47 -0500
Subject: Running lpr on windows from python
In-Reply-To: <5717991E.70309@timgolden.me.uk>
References: <7ec37d41-61eb-4c93-ae21-28d108c261f1@googlegroups.com>
 <7a7e2d01-fcf3-4f14-9531-f19a96700cf3@googlegroups.com>
 <5717991E.70309@timgolden.me.uk>
Message-ID: <CACL+1at1NtaV20tbiNVcGrodMF1nCguD=ze5Cn+sk1RpmZfisQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:58 AM, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
> If it's not, then try copying the lpr.exe to c:\windows\syswow64 and try
> again. (Or to some other place to which you have access).

WOW64 in Windows 7+ has a virtual "SysNative" directory that accesses
the native 64-bit system directory:

    if '32bit' in platform.architecture():
        lpr = os.path.join(os.environ['SystemRoot'], 'SysNative', 'lpr.exe')
    else:
        lpr = os.path.join(os.environ['SystemRoot'], 'System32', 'lpr.exe')


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Apr 20 23:57:13 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 20:57:13 -0700
Subject: Detecting repeated subsequences of identical items
In-Reply-To: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <57184F99.4090808@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/20/2016 08:07 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Now I want to group subsequences. For example, I have:
>
> "ABCABCABCDEABCDEFABCABCABCB"
>
> and I want to group it into repeating subsequences. I can see two ways to
> group it:
>
> ABC ABC ABCDE ABCDE F ABC ABC ABC B
>
> giving counts:
>
> (ABC) count = 2
> (ABCDE) count = 2
> F count = 1
> (ABC) count = 3
> B repeats 1 time

or

ABC ABC ABC D E A B C D E F ABC ABC B

--
~Ethan~


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Apr 21 00:15:02 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 21:15:02 -0700
Subject: Detecting repeated subsequences of identical items
In-Reply-To: <57184F99.4090808@stoneleaf.us>
References: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <57184F99.4090808@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <571853C6.7030707@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/20/2016 08:57 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:

 > [snip same pattern as Steven wrote]

Nevermind.  It's obviously time for me to go to bed.  :/

--
~Ethan~


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 01:37:38 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 15:37:38 +1000
Subject: Detecting repeated subsequences of identical items
In-Reply-To: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoM7hypFBXWM_PkCHmv1usUq91pst6D+uwFTgejTpPaJw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> Now I want to group subsequences. For example, I have:
>
> "ABCABCABCDEABCDEFABCABCABCB"
>
> and I want to group it into repeating subsequences. I can see two ways to
> group it:
>
> ABC ABC ABCDE ABCDE F ABC ABC ABC B
>
> or:
>
> ABC ABC ABC D E A B C D E F ABC ABC ABC B

Interesting. I've *almost* managed to (ab)use re.split for this
purpose. A one-step solution can be done with re.match:

>>> txt = "ABCABCABCDEABCDEFABCABCABCB"
>>> re.match(r'(.+)\1+', txt)
<_sre.SRE_Match object; span=(0, 9), match='ABCABCABC'>

But split then returns only the grouped part:

>>> re.split(r'(.+)\1+', txt)
['', 'ABC', 'DEABCDEF', 'ABC', 'B']

or *all* the grouped parts:

>>> re.split(r'((.+)\2+)', txt)
['', 'ABCABCABC', 'ABC', 'DEABCDEF', 'ABCABCABC', 'ABC', 'B']

There's definitely a partial solution happening here, but I can't
quite make it work.

And no, I don't know if there's a standard name for it.

ChrisA


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 02:35:33 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 06:35:33 +0000
Subject: Detecting repeated subsequences of identical items
In-Reply-To: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkMFqsiqfb-bV7e10D+FNXCh-TLeSr5vP37xdffNy-a0aw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 11:11 PM Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>
wrote:

> I want to group [repeated] subsequences. For example, I have:
> "ABCABCABCDEABCDEFABCABCABCB"
> and I want to group it into repeating subsequences. I can see two
> ways... How can I do this? Does this problem have a standard name and/or
> solution?
>

I'm not aware of a standard name. This sounds like an unsupervised learning
problem. There's no objectively correct answer unless you add more
specificity to the problem statement.

Regexes may sound tempting at first, but because a repeating subsequence
may have nested repeating subsequences and this can go on infinitely, I
think we at least need a push-down automata.

I checked out some links for clustering algorithms that work on series
subsequences and I found some fun results.

Clustering is meaningless!
http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~eamonn/meaningless.pdf

I think you're in "no free lunch" territory. "Clustering of subsequence
time series remains an open issue in time series clustering"
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/tswj/2014/312521/

Any more detail on the problem to add constraints?


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 02:49:52 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 06:49:52 +0000
Subject: Detecting repeated subsequences of identical items
In-Reply-To: <CAGgTfkMFqsiqfb-bV7e10D+FNXCh-TLeSr5vP37xdffNy-a0aw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAGgTfkMFqsiqfb-bV7e10D+FNXCh-TLeSr5vP37xdffNy-a0aw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkPRaq3+s3kuSvGa7k_-tFhYSuimjcm6mfhEWqbd2vY3oQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 2:35 AM Michael Selik <michael.selik at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 11:11 PM Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>
> wrote:
>
>> I want to group [repeated] subsequences. For example, I have:
>> "ABCABCABCDEABCDEFABCABCABCB"
>> and I want to group it into repeating subsequences. I can see two
>> ways... How can I do this? Does this problem have a standard name and/or
>> solution?
>>
>
> I'm not aware of a standard name. This sounds like an unsupervised
> learning problem. There's no objectively correct answer unless you add more
> specificity to the problem statement.
>
> Regexes may sound tempting at first, but because a repeating subsequence
> may have nested repeating subsequences and this can go on infinitely, I
> think we at least need a push-down automata.
>
> I checked out some links for clustering algorithms that work on series
> subsequences and I found some fun results.
>
> Clustering is meaningless!
> http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~eamonn/meaningless.pdf
>
> I think you're in "no free lunch" territory. "Clustering of subsequence
> time series remains an open issue in time series clustering"
> http://www.hindawi.com/journals/tswj/2014/312521/
>
> Any more detail on the problem to add constraints?
>

Some light reading suggests that you can improve your problem by defining a
minimum size for a subsequence to qualify. One paper suggests calling these
more interesting repetitions a "motif" to use a music metaphor. Looking for
any repetitions results in too many trivial results. Is that valid for your
usage?


From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 02:54:04 2016
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 08:54:04 +0200
Subject: Detecting repeated subsequences of identical items
In-Reply-To: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAHzaPEPGvxoMAO7f0=DLBDf=dS1AhTP55Pzm_5ANbkOQ-sZAUA@mail.gmail.com>

2016-04-21 5:07 GMT+02:00 Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:
> I want to group repeated items in a sequence. For example, I can group
> repeated sequences of a single item at a time using groupby:
>
>
> from itertools import groupby
> for key, group in groupby("AAAABBCDDEEEFFFF"):
>     group = list(group)
>     print(key, "count =", len(group))
>
>
> outputs:
>
> A count = 4
> B count = 2
> C count = 1
> D count = 2
> E count = 3
> F count = 4
>
>
> Now I want to group subsequences. For example, I have:
>
> "ABCABCABCDEABCDEFABCABCABCB"
>
> and I want to group it into repeating subsequences. I can see two ways to
> group it:
>
> ABC ABC ABCDE ABCDE F ABC ABC ABC B
>
> giving counts:
>
> (ABC) count = 2
> (ABCDE) count = 2
> F count = 1
> (ABC) count = 3
> B repeats 1 time
>
>
> or:
>
> ABC ABC ABC D E A B C D E F ABC ABC ABC B
>
> giving counts:
>
> (ABC) count = 3
> D count = 1
> E count = 1
> A count = 1
> B count = 1
> C count = 1
> D count = 1
> E count = 1
> F count = 1
> (ABC) count = 3
> B count = 1
>
>
>
> How can I do this? Does this problem have a standard name and/or solution?
>
>
>
>
> --
> Steven
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Hi,
if I am not missing something, the latter form of grouping might be
achieved with the following regex:

t="ABCABCABCDEABCDEFABCABCABCB"
grouped = re.findall(r"((?:(\w+?)\2+)|\w+?)", t)
print(grouped)
for grp, subseq in grouped:
    if subseq:
        print(subseq, grp.count(subseq))
    else:
        print(grp, "1")


the printed output is:

[('ABCABCABC', 'ABC'), ('D', ''), ('E', ''), ('A', ''), ('B', ''),
('C', ''), ('D', ''), ('E', ''), ('F', ''), ('ABCABCABC', 'ABC'),
('B', '')]
ABC 3
D 1
E 1
A 1
B 1
C 1
D 1
E 1
F 1
ABC 3
B 1

The former one seems to be more tricky...

hth,
   vbr


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 03:05:29 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 07:05:29 +0000
Subject: Detecting repeated subsequences of identical items
In-Reply-To: <CAHzaPEPGvxoMAO7f0=DLBDf=dS1AhTP55Pzm_5ANbkOQ-sZAUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAHzaPEPGvxoMAO7f0=DLBDf=dS1AhTP55Pzm_5ANbkOQ-sZAUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkN9T6m51gMuOHAGDEvHi26MAyRVoUC_YX__RV8S7+SsEw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 2:55 AM Vlastimil Brom <vlastimil.brom at gmail.com>
wrote:

> 2016-04-21 5:07 GMT+02:00 Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:
> > I want to group subsequences.
> > "ABCABCABCDEABCDEFABCABCABCB"
> > ABC ABC ABCDE ABCDE F ABC ABC ABC B
> > or:
> > ABC ABC ABC D E A B C D E F ABC ABC ABC B
>
> if I am not missing something, the latter form of grouping might be
> achieved with the following regex: [snip]
> The former one seems to be more tricky...
>

Right. If the problem is constrained to say that repeated subsequences can
have no nested repeated subsequences, it's much easier to solve.

If you had "ABCABCABCABC" should that result in
ABC ABC ABC ABC, with 4 repetitions
or ABCABC ABCABC with 2 repetitions?
In this example, one might say the higher count is obviously better, but I
think it depends on the context. Maybe the user is looking for the biggest
patterns rather than the biggest counts.


From alain at universite-de-strasbourg.fr.invalid  Thu Apr 21 03:25:16 2016
From: alain at universite-de-strasbourg.fr.invalid (Alain Ketterlin)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 09:25:16 +0200
Subject: Detecting repeated subsequences of identical items
References: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87inzbjueb.fsf@universite-de-strasbourg.fr.invalid>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> writes:

> I want to group repeated items in a sequence. For example, I can group
> repeated sequences of a single item at a time using groupby:
[...]
> Now I want to group subsequences. For example, I have:
>
> "ABCABCABCDEABCDEFABCABCABCB"
>
> and I want to group it into repeating subsequences. I can see two ways to
> group it:
>
> ABC ABC ABCDE ABCDE F ABC ABC ABC B
[...]
> or:
>
> ABC ABC ABC D E A B C D E F ABC ABC ABC B
[...]
> How can I do this? Does this problem have a standard name and/or solution?

Looks like a tough one. I don't think it has a name (I'm not even sure
to be able to formally define it). Lets say it is an instance of
"longest repeating substring"
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_repeated_substring_problem --
which really does not say much).

Anyway, it looks like a job for a suffix trees.

Depending on what you are after, you may also be interested in the
sequitur algorithm (http://www.sequitur.info/).

-- Alain.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 21 04:05:40 2016
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 18:05:40 +1000
Subject: Detecting repeated subsequences of identical items
References: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAGgTfkMFqsiqfb-bV7e10D+FNXCh-TLeSr5vP37xdffNy-a0aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.3.1461220545.23626.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <571889d8$0$2820$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>

On Thursday 21 April 2016 16:35, Michael Selik wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 11:11 PM Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>
> wrote:
> 
>> I want to group [repeated] subsequences. For example, I have:
>> "ABCABCABCDEABCDEFABCABCABCB"
>> and I want to group it into repeating subsequences. I can see two
>> ways... How can I do this? Does this problem have a standard name and/or
>> solution?
>>
> 
> I'm not aware of a standard name. This sounds like an unsupervised
> learning problem. There's no objectively correct answer unless you add
> more specificity to the problem statement.
> 
> Regexes may sound tempting at first, 

Ah, I may have mislead you all. I cannot use regexes, since the *actual* 
sequences I'm working on are sequences (lists, tuples, etc) or iterators of 
arbitrary items. The items themselves may be strings, but the sequence 
itself is definitely not a string. I just showed a string for convenience. 
Sorry about that.

So no regexes.


> but because a repeating subsequence
> may have nested repeating subsequences and this can go on infinitely, I
> think we at least need a push-down automata.

Fortunately, for my *immediate* problem, I would be good with some fairly 
arbitrary restrictions on subsequence detection.


> I checked out some links for clustering algorithms that work on series
> subsequences and I found some fun results.
> 
> Clustering is meaningless!
> http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~eamonn/meaningless.pdf
> 
> I think you're in "no free lunch" territory. "Clustering of subsequence
> time series remains an open issue in time series clustering"
> http://www.hindawi.com/journals/tswj/2014/312521/
> 
> Any more detail on the problem to add constraints?

The specific problem I am trying to solve is that I have a sequence of 
strings (in this case, error messages from a Python traceback) and I'm 
looking for repeated groups that may indicate mutually recursive calls. E.g. 
suppose I have a function f which calls g, and g calls h, and h calls f 
again, and there's an exception, you will see a traceback in part:


  File "<stdin>", line 2, in f
  File "<stdin>", line 5, in g
  File "<stdin>", line 9, in h
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in f
  File "<stdin>", line 5, in g
  File "<stdin>", line 9, in h
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in f
  File "<stdin>", line 5, in g
  File "<stdin>", line 9, in h
  File "<stdin>", line 7, in f
  File "<stdin>", line 5, in g
  File "<stdin>", line 9, in h

etc. Note that I only care about lines which are identical, e.g. if the line 
numbers differ (as in the last call to f), they will be treated as distinct 
items. So I'd like to group the above as:

  File "<stdin>", line 2, in f
  File "<stdin>", line 5, in g
  File "<stdin>", line 9, in h
  *** above 3 calls repeated 3 times ***
  File "<stdin>", line 7, in f
  File "<stdin>", line 5, in g
  File "<stdin>", line 9, in h



-- 
Steve



From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 04:53:04 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 09:53:04 +0100
Subject: Detecting repeated subsequences of identical items
In-Reply-To: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxTCQT0Tp3-Pd0O5mqSMDA6s=dqj+DDTpkq1AvYoCYs-7Q@mail.gmail.com>

On 21 April 2016 at 04:07, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> I want to group repeated items in a sequence. For example, I can group
> repeated sequences of a single item at a time using groupby:
>
>
> from itertools import groupby
> for key, group in groupby("AAAABBCDDEEEFFFF"):
>     group = list(group)
>     print(key, "count =", len(group))
>
>
> outputs:
>
> A count = 4
> B count = 2
> C count = 1
> D count = 2
> E count = 3
> F count = 4
>
>
> Now I want to group subsequences. For example, I have:
>
> "ABCABCABCDEABCDEFABCABCABCB"
>
> and I want to group it into repeating subsequences. I can see two ways to
> group it:
>
> ABC ABC ABCDE ABCDE F ABC ABC ABC B

There are some algorithms (helpfully shown in Python) here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_detection

Note that those are for a sequence made as x[n+1] = f(x[n]) for some
function f. In your case that's just the function that gets the next
frame up/down in the call stack.

--
Oscar

--
Oscar


From erissatallan at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 05:06:54 2016
From: erissatallan at gmail.com (Allan Leo)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 10:06:54 +0100
Subject: Error 0*80070570
In-Reply-To: <CAPGOpAUxUuvXV=QJfLjYqsKEQx=hO5hFstfhJmyp4oyK21wQYQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPGOpAUxUuvXV=QJfLjYqsKEQx=hO5hFstfhJmyp4oyK21wQYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPGOpAW3s6h3w6xtZq4OCKO1Fm9BdHNWD7fnpiDfakaT4ht4HA@mail.gmail.com>

When running the  setup for your 3.5.1(32-bit version), the setup
experiences error 0*80070570 and tells me to check the log file. What could
be the problem and whats the solution.
On Apr 21, 2016 7:05 AM, "Allan Leo" <erissatallan at gmail.com> wrote:

> When running the setup for your 3.5.1(32-bit version) the setup
> experiences  error 0*80070570 and tells me to checkout the log file. What
> could be the problem and whats the resolution.
>


From harirammanohar at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 06:17:59 2016
From: harirammanohar at gmail.com (harirammanohar at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 03:17:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
In-Reply-To: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 12:38:03 PM UTC+5:30, hariram... at gmail.com wrote:
> HI All, 
> 
> can you help me out in doing below. 
> 
> file: 
> <start> 
>  guava 
> fruit 
> <end> 
> <start> 
>  mango 
> fruit 
> <end> 
> <start> 
>  orange 
> fruit 
> <end> 
> 
> need to delete from start to end if it contains mango in a file...
> 
> output should be: 
> 
> <start> 
>  guava 
> fruit 
> <end> 
> <start> 
>  orange 
> fruit 
> <end> 
> 
> Thank you

any one can guide me ? why xml tree parsing is not working if i have root.tag and root.attrib as mentioned in earlier post...


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr 21 07:24:08 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 13:24:08 +0200
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nfad8p$m3h$1@ger.gmane.org>

harirammanohar at gmail.com wrote:

> On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 12:38:03 PM UTC+5:30, hariram... at gmail.com
> wrote:
>> HI All,
>> 
>> can you help me out in doing below.
>> 
>> file:
>> <start>
>>  guava
>> fruit
>> <end>
>> <start>
>>  mango
>> fruit
>> <end>
>> <start>
>>  orange
>> fruit
>> <end>

Is that literally what you have in the file?

> any one can guide me ? why xml tree parsing is not working if i have
> root.tag and root.attrib as mentioned in earlier post...

The data above is not valid xml. Instead of

<start>...<end>

you need

<start>...</start>

i. e. the end tag must be the same as the start tag, but with a leading "/".




From storchaka at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 07:56:07 2016
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 14:56:07 +0300
Subject: Detecting repeated subsequences of identical items
In-Reply-To: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <nfaf4n$l8k$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 21.04.16 06:07, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Now I want to group subsequences. For example, I have:
>
> "ABCABCABCDEABCDEFABCABCABCB"
>
> and I want to group it into repeating subsequences.

[...]

> How can I do this? Does this problem have a standard name and/or solution?

This is a part of lossless data compression algorithms. See for example 
LZ, LZW.



From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Thu Apr 21 08:02:20 2016
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Nobody)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 13:02:20 +0100
Subject: Detecting repeated subsequences of identical items
References: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAGgTfkMFqsiqfb-bV7e10D+FNXCh-TLeSr5vP37xdffNy-a0aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.3.1461220545.23626.python-list@python.org>
 <571889d8$0$2820$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2016.04.21.12.03.44.178000@nowhere.invalid>

On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 18:05:40 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> The specific problem I am trying to solve is that I have a sequence of 
> strings (in this case, error messages from a Python traceback) and I'm 
> looking for repeated groups that may indicate mutually recursive calls. E.g. 
> suppose I have a function f which calls g, and g calls h, and h calls f 
> again, and there's an exception, you will see a traceback in part:

This is a specific case of finding cycles in a directed graph. But
treating it as such probably isn't useful here, because you're interested
in a specific traversal of that graph rather than the graph itself.

One way to approach it is:

sofar = []
for line in traceback:
    if line in sofar:
        j = sofar.index(line)
        if sofar[:j] == sofar[j:j*2]:
            # found repeat
    sofar = [line] + sofar

Note that sofar needs to be in reverse order, because list doesn't have
.rindex() or .rfind().

Detecting nested cycles is somewhat harder because given e.g.

	ababxabababababxababab

you'd want the five repeats of ab in the middle to be treated as two
repeats of ab followed by three repeats of ab, but there's no way to
spot that until later.



From steve at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 21 08:15:16 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 22:15:16 +1000
Subject: Detecting repeated subsequences of identical items
References: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAHVvXxTCQT0Tp3-Pd0O5mqSMDA6s=dqj+DDTpkq1AvYoCYs-7Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.7.1461228807.23626.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5718c457$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 06:53 pm, Oscar Benjamin wrote:

> On 21 April 2016 at 04:07, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> I want to group repeated items in a sequence. For example, I can group
>> repeated sequences of a single item at a time using groupby:
>>
>>
>> from itertools import groupby
>> for key, group in groupby("AAAABBCDDEEEFFFF"):
>>     group = list(group)
>>     print(key, "count =", len(group))
>>
>>
>> outputs:
>>
>> A count = 4
>> B count = 2
>> C count = 1
>> D count = 2
>> E count = 3
>> F count = 4
>>
>>
>> Now I want to group subsequences. For example, I have:
>>
>> "ABCABCABCDEABCDEFABCABCABCB"
>>
>> and I want to group it into repeating subsequences. I can see two ways to
>> group it:
>>
>> ABC ABC ABCDE ABCDE F ABC ABC ABC B
> 
> There are some algorithms (helpfully shown in Python) here:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_detection

It's not necessarily a cycle though. Consider a sequence of function calls:

def f(x):
    return g(x)

def g(x):
    if x < 7:
        return h(x)
    elif x < 50:
        return g(x//2)
    else:
        return x+f(x-1)

def h(x):
    raise ValueError  # oops, a bug


and a function call f(54). That will result in the chain of calls:

f(54) -> g(54) -> f(53) -> g(53) -> f(52) -> g(52) -> f(51) -> g(51) ->
f(50) -> g(50) -> g(25) -> g(12) -> g(6) -> h(6) raises

So you have that almost-cycle f calls g calls f, but it isn't periodic
because you break out of it. I'd still like to detect the repeated f->g
calls.




-- 
Steven



From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Thu Apr 21 09:32:46 2016
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 16:32:46 +0300
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <lf5fuufqe81.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

harirammanohar at gmail.com writes:

> On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 12:38:03 PM UTC+5:30,
> hariram... at gmail.com wrote:
>> HI All,
>> 
>> can you help me out in doing below. 
>> 
>> file: 
>> <start> 
>>  guava 
>> fruit 
>> <end> 
>> <start> 
>>  mango 
>> fruit 
>> <end> 
>> <start> 
>>  orange 
>> fruit 
>> <end> 
>> 
>> need to delete from start to end if it contains mango in a file...
>> 
>> output should be: 
>> 
>> <start> 
>>  guava 
>> fruit 
>> <end> 
>> <start> 
>>  orange 
>> fruit 
>> <end> 
>> 
>> Thank you
>
> any one can guide me ? why xml tree parsing is not working if i have
> root.tag and root.attrib as mentioned in earlier post...

Assuming the real consists of lines between a start marker and end
marker, a winning plan is to collect a group of lines, deal with it, and
move on.

The following code implements something close to the plan. You need to
adapt it a bit to have your own source of lines and to restore the end
marker in the output and to account for your real use case and for
differences in taste and judgment. - The plan is as described above, but
there are many ways to implement it.

from io import StringIO

text = '''\
<start> 
  guava 
fruit 
<end> 
<start>
  mango
fruit
<end>
<start> 
  orange 
fruit 
<end> 
'''

def records(source):
    current = []
    for line in source:
        if line.startswith('<end>'):
            yield current
            current = []
        else:
            current.append(line)

def hasmango(record):
    return any('mango' in it for it in record)

for record in records(StringIO(text)):
    hasmango(record) or print(*record)


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 10:01:27 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 15:01:27 +0100
Subject: Detecting repeated subsequences of identical items
In-Reply-To: <5718c457$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAHVvXxTCQT0Tp3-Pd0O5mqSMDA6s=dqj+DDTpkq1AvYoCYs-7Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.7.1461228807.23626.python-list@python.org>
 <5718c457$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxQAPP8-31Nb3vM+=O4wYpXEuH1FH3n05N59KnqpC8C0PQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 21 April 2016 at 13:15, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 06:53 pm, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
>
>> On 21 April 2016 at 04:07, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
>>> I want to group repeated items in a sequence. For example, I can group
>>> repeated sequences of a single item at a time using groupby:
>>>
>>>
>>> from itertools import groupby
>>> for key, group in groupby("AAAABBCDDEEEFFFF"):
>>>     group = list(group)
>>>     print(key, "count =", len(group))
>>>
>>>
>>> outputs:
>>>
>>> A count = 4
>>> B count = 2
>>> C count = 1
>>> D count = 2
>>> E count = 3
>>> F count = 4
>>>
>>>
>>> Now I want to group subsequences. For example, I have:
>>>
>>> "ABCABCABCDEABCDEFABCABCABCB"
>>>
>>> and I want to group it into repeating subsequences. I can see two ways to
>>> group it:
>>>
>>> ABC ABC ABCDE ABCDE F ABC ABC ABC B
>>
>> There are some algorithms (helpfully shown in Python) here:
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_detection
>
> It's not necessarily a cycle though. Consider a sequence of function calls:
>
> def f(x):
>     return g(x)
>
> def g(x):
>     if x < 7:
>         return h(x)
>     elif x < 50:
>         return g(x//2)
>     else:
>         return x+f(x-1)
>
> def h(x):
>     raise ValueError  # oops, a bug
>
>
> and a function call f(54). That will result in the chain of calls:
>
> f(54) -> g(54) -> f(53) -> g(53) -> f(52) -> g(52) -> f(51) -> g(51) ->
> f(50) -> g(50) -> g(25) -> g(12) -> g(6) -> h(6) raises
>
> So you have that almost-cycle f calls g calls f, but it isn't periodic
> because you break out of it. I'd still like to detect the repeated f->g
> calls.

It doesn't matter that you break out of it. It's periodic for some
part and the algorithms listed on that page can find the cycle. In the
recursive stack overflow case what you'll usually have is

1) A few frames leading up to the start of recursion
2) A long repetitive sequence of frames
3) A few frames at the end showing how the exception was ultimately triggered.

You just need to find the cycle that makes that big long sequence.

--
Oscar


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 10:12:23 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 00:12:23 +1000
Subject: Detecting repeated subsequences of identical items
In-Reply-To: <CAHVvXxQAPP8-31Nb3vM+=O4wYpXEuH1FH3n05N59KnqpC8C0PQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAHVvXxTCQT0Tp3-Pd0O5mqSMDA6s=dqj+DDTpkq1AvYoCYs-7Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.7.1461228807.23626.python-list@python.org>
 <5718c457$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAHVvXxQAPP8-31Nb3vM+=O4wYpXEuH1FH3n05N59KnqpC8C0PQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrp7ufKa194h4RrCh0F2y0FuDqaUkcV6-B-sHDWvosdKA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:01 AM, Oscar Benjamin
<oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> wrote:
> In the recursive stack overflow case what you'll usually have is
>
> 1) A few frames leading up to the start of recursion
> 2) A long repetitive sequence of frames
> 3) A few frames at the end showing how the exception was ultimately triggered.
>
> You just need to find the cycle that makes that big long sequence.

If the stack got overflowed, there won't usually be a part 3, as part
2 is the bit that hits sys.recursionlimit (unless increasing the
recursion limit by a finite number would solve the problem). For other
exceptions, yes, this is what you'd see.

ChrisA


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 10:30:36 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 15:30:36 +0100
Subject: Detecting repeated subsequences of identical items
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrp7ufKa194h4RrCh0F2y0FuDqaUkcV6-B-sHDWvosdKA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAHVvXxTCQT0Tp3-Pd0O5mqSMDA6s=dqj+DDTpkq1AvYoCYs-7Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.7.1461228807.23626.python-list@python.org>
 <5718c457$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAHVvXxQAPP8-31Nb3vM+=O4wYpXEuH1FH3n05N59KnqpC8C0PQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrp7ufKa194h4RrCh0F2y0FuDqaUkcV6-B-sHDWvosdKA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxQ=qbfxZAkznhFEpyNv-7WdFYzvJiQxrOzi9Ep7zanzaA@mail.gmail.com>

On 21 April 2016 at 15:12, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:01 AM, Oscar Benjamin
> <oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> wrote:
>> In the recursive stack overflow case what you'll usually have is
>>
>> 1) A few frames leading up to the start of recursion
>> 2) A long repetitive sequence of frames
>> 3) A few frames at the end showing how the exception was ultimately triggered.
>>
>> You just need to find the cycle that makes that big long sequence.
>
> If the stack got overflowed, there won't usually be a part 3, as part
> 2 is the bit that hits sys.recursionlimit (unless increasing the
> recursion limit by a finite number would solve the problem). For other
> exceptions, yes, this is what you'd see.

If you have:

def f(x):
    return g(x+1)

def g(x):
    x = h(x)  # <-- stack can overflow inside here
    return f(x+1)

# etc.

So you have a long sequence that goes f, g, f, g but at the end the
stack can overflow while (not recursively) calling h leaving a small
non-cyclic part at the end.

--
Oscar


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 11:02:27 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 01:02:27 +1000
Subject: Detecting repeated subsequences of identical items
In-Reply-To: <CAHVvXxQ=qbfxZAkznhFEpyNv-7WdFYzvJiQxrOzi9Ep7zanzaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAHVvXxTCQT0Tp3-Pd0O5mqSMDA6s=dqj+DDTpkq1AvYoCYs-7Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.7.1461228807.23626.python-list@python.org>
 <5718c457$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAHVvXxQAPP8-31Nb3vM+=O4wYpXEuH1FH3n05N59KnqpC8C0PQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrp7ufKa194h4RrCh0F2y0FuDqaUkcV6-B-sHDWvosdKA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHVvXxQ=qbfxZAkznhFEpyNv-7WdFYzvJiQxrOzi9Ep7zanzaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpa8x3r_Y0Q-gZxHk-eLUH=wh=BpSJOwBGrE=OkgStmfg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:30 AM, Oscar Benjamin
<oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 21 April 2016 at 15:12, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:01 AM, Oscar Benjamin
>> <oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> In the recursive stack overflow case what you'll usually have is
>>>
>>> 1) A few frames leading up to the start of recursion
>>> 2) A long repetitive sequence of frames
>>> 3) A few frames at the end showing how the exception was ultimately triggered.
>>>
>>> You just need to find the cycle that makes that big long sequence.
>>
>> If the stack got overflowed, there won't usually be a part 3, as part
>> 2 is the bit that hits sys.recursionlimit (unless increasing the
>> recursion limit by a finite number would solve the problem). For other
>> exceptions, yes, this is what you'd see.
>
> If you have:
>
> def f(x):
>     return g(x+1)
>
> def g(x):
>     x = h(x)  # <-- stack can overflow inside here
>     return f(x+1)
>
> # etc.
>
> So you have a long sequence that goes f, g, f, g but at the end the
> stack can overflow while (not recursively) calling h leaving a small
> non-cyclic part at the end.

Right, good point. Forgot about that. So this situation can be
triggered by anywhere up to <cycle length> lines up. Not as helpful an
optimization now. Oh well.

ChrisA


From walters.justin01 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 11:19:44 2016
From: walters.justin01 at gmail.com (justin walters)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 08:19:44 -0700
Subject: PEP proposal: sequence expansion support for yield statement:
 yield *
In-Reply-To: <57181d0e$0$1591$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <573e61523bfc412ca8674b06d70f2fd7@sraex01sc.sisa.samsung.com>
 <mailman.36.1461181657.12923.python-list@python.org>
 <57181d0e$0$1591$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAO1D73Fs6_U95TKsmytdH3wgnyUgrZHcaCk5J6xL__xia6U0Ww@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with the others that the new syntax is not needed.

I would also like to point out that I believe any new added syntax or
functionality should avoid the use of '*' and '**' as both of these
characters are already used for many things such as optional arguments and
mathematical operators. Adding more uses for said characters only decreases
the readability of the code.


From walters.justin01 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 11:20:36 2016
From: walters.justin01 at gmail.com (justin walters)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 08:20:36 -0700
Subject: Error 0*80070570
In-Reply-To: <CAPGOpAW3s6h3w6xtZq4OCKO1Fm9BdHNWD7fnpiDfakaT4ht4HA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPGOpAUxUuvXV=QJfLjYqsKEQx=hO5hFstfhJmyp4oyK21wQYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPGOpAW3s6h3w6xtZq4OCKO1Fm9BdHNWD7fnpiDfakaT4ht4HA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO1D73EicFqOU6jFOm+6bgDQbxmtz4gidjUeEwgUoAu8ae5MqQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 2:06 AM, Allan Leo <erissatallan at gmail.com> wrote:

> When running the  setup for your 3.5.1(32-bit version), the setup
> experiences error 0*80070570 and tells me to check the log file. What could
> be the problem and whats the solution.
> On Apr 21, 2016 7:05 AM, "Allan Leo" <erissatallan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > When running the setup for your 3.5.1(32-bit version) the setup
> > experiences  error 0*80070570 and tells me to checkout the log file. What
> > could be the problem and whats the resolution.
> >
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Have you tried checking the log file or googling the error code?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 11:26:46 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 01:26:46 +1000
Subject: PEP proposal: sequence expansion support for yield statement:
 yield *
In-Reply-To: <CAO1D73Fs6_U95TKsmytdH3wgnyUgrZHcaCk5J6xL__xia6U0Ww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <573e61523bfc412ca8674b06d70f2fd7@sraex01sc.sisa.samsung.com>
 <mailman.36.1461181657.12923.python-list@python.org>
 <57181d0e$0$1591$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAO1D73Fs6_U95TKsmytdH3wgnyUgrZHcaCk5J6xL__xia6U0Ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq86WzrEX++hfGRaTfs6XUf+pxF2XdxKKanh58q1AXzGA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 1:19 AM, justin walters
<walters.justin01 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree with the others that the new syntax is not needed.
>
> I would also like to point out that I believe any new added syntax or
> functionality should avoid the use of '*' and '**' as both of these
> characters are already used for many things such as optional arguments and
> mathematical operators. Adding more uses for said characters only decreases
> the readability of the code.

The single asterisk is used for packing and unpacking, though. See PEP
448 [1] for some of the ways this can be used (in the context of "the
ways this can NOW be used in Python 3.5"). So the proposed "yield
*sequence" does make good sense; however, "yield from" has, as Steven
pointed out, *far* more detailed semantics, as it basically allows
generators to be refactored, with all their semantics (yield, send,
throw, return).

ChrisA

[1] https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0448/


From random832 at fastmail.com  Thu Apr 21 12:35:56 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 12:35:56 -0400
Subject: How are you supposed to define subclasses in C?
Message-ID: <1461256556.38223.585724489.051B2155@webmail.messagingengine.com>

I was trying to write a proof of concept on including descriptors (e.g.
a "sys.recursionlimit" instead of set/get methods) in the sys module,
and couldn't figure out how to "properly" define a type using
PyType_FromSpecWithBases. Everything I tried just segfaulted. I ended up
just calling PyObject_CallFunctionObjArgs((PyObject *)&PyType_Type, ...)
but I assume there's a better way to do it. I couldn't find any examples
or tutorial.


From zachary.ware+pylist at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 12:39:09 2016
From: zachary.ware+pylist at gmail.com (Zachary Ware)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 11:39:09 -0500
Subject: How are you supposed to define subclasses in C?
In-Reply-To: <1461256556.38223.585724489.051B2155@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1461256556.38223.585724489.051B2155@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CAKJDb-M6G9hW-XO+7am_Em+45cavgJV_b8ZkYjDEV7GuZMryeg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 11:35 AM, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
> I was trying to write a proof of concept on including descriptors (e.g.
> a "sys.recursionlimit" instead of set/get methods) in the sys module,
> and couldn't figure out how to "properly" define a type using
> PyType_FromSpecWithBases. Everything I tried just segfaulted. I ended up
> just calling PyObject_CallFunctionObjArgs((PyObject *)&PyType_Type, ...)
> but I assume there's a better way to do it. I couldn't find any examples
> or tutorial.

Have a look at https://hg.python.org/cpython/file/default/Modules/xxsubtype.c

-- 
Zach


From erissatallan at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 13:46:45 2016
From: erissatallan at gmail.com (Allan Leo)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 18:46:45 +0100
Subject: Fwd: Re: Error 0*80070570
In-Reply-To: <CAPGOpAW3s6h3w6xtZq4OCKO1Fm9BdHNWD7fnpiDfakaT4ht4HA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPGOpAUxUuvXV=QJfLjYqsKEQx=hO5hFstfhJmyp4oyK21wQYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPGOpAW3s6h3w6xtZq4OCKO1Fm9BdHNWD7fnpiDfakaT4ht4HA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPGOpAWrouhZBKp6q7m9Chou7Hc+BOofg+UPAtcda31_Dc9yUA@mail.gmail.com>

I need help with this setup error.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Allan Leo" <erissatallan at gmail.com>
Date: Apr 21, 2016 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: Error 0*80070570
To: <python-list at python.org>
Cc:

When running the  setup for your 3.5.1(32-bit version), the setup
experiences error 0*80070570 and tells me to check the log file. What could
be the problem and whats the solution.
On Apr 21, 2016 7:05 AM, "Allan Leo" <erissatallan at gmail.com> wrote:

> When running the setup for your 3.5.1(32-bit version) the setup
> experiences  error 0*80070570 and tells me to checkout the log file. What
> could be the problem and whats the resolution.
>


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Thu Apr 21 13:56:19 2016
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 19:56:19 +0200
Subject: How are you supposed to define subclasses in C?
In-Reply-To: <1461256556.38223.585724489.051B2155@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1461256556.38223.585724489.051B2155@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <nfb484$32v$1@ger.gmane.org>

Random832 schrieb am 21.04.2016 um 18:35:
> I was trying to write a proof of concept on including descriptors (e.g.
> a "sys.recursionlimit" instead of set/get methods) in the sys module,
> and couldn't figure out how to "properly" define a type using
> PyType_FromSpecWithBases. Everything I tried just segfaulted. I ended up
> just calling PyObject_CallFunctionObjArgs((PyObject *)&PyType_Type, ...)
> but I assume there's a better way to do it. I couldn't find any examples
> or tutorial.

I suppose you might find Cython useful:

http://cython.org/

http://docs.cython.org/

In a nutshell, it lets you write beautiful Python code instead of ugly C
code full of leaks and crashes, and then takes care of making it faster
than the usual C-API calls you'd write by hand. It has some extended syntax
for extension types and other C-ish things to make their usage explicit.

Stefan




From me at ixokai.io  Thu Apr 21 14:47:08 2016
From: me at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 11:47:08 -0700
Subject: Fwd: Re: Error 0*80070570
In-Reply-To: <CAPGOpAWrouhZBKp6q7m9Chou7Hc+BOofg+UPAtcda31_Dc9yUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPGOpAUxUuvXV=QJfLjYqsKEQx=hO5hFstfhJmyp4oyK21wQYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPGOpAW3s6h3w6xtZq4OCKO1Fm9BdHNWD7fnpiDfakaT4ht4HA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPGOpAWrouhZBKp6q7m9Chou7Hc+BOofg+UPAtcda31_Dc9yUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1461264428.338499.585857225.582D6DE0@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016, at 10:46 AM, Allan Leo wrote:
> I need help with this setup error.
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Allan Leo" <erissatallan at gmail.com>
> Date: Apr 21, 2016 10:06 AM
> Subject: Re: Error 0*80070570
> To: <python-list at python.org>
> Cc:
> 
> When running the  setup for your 3.5.1(32-bit version), the setup
> experiences error 0*80070570 and tells me to check the log file. What
> could
> be the problem and whats the solution.
> On Apr 21, 2016 7:05 AM, "Allan Leo" <erissatallan at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > When running the setup for your 3.5.1(32-bit version) the setup
> > experiences  error 0*80070570 and tells me to checkout the log file. What
> > could be the problem and whats the resolution.

What version of windows?


From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 15:27:27 2016
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 15:27:27 -0400
Subject: python regex dna processing
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+w8EY8ed3f1fCE2pdF77DXmLUuoScXDu+x21cFDuRt+NQ@mail.gmail.com>

>From time to time there are DNA related question posted here.  I came
upon this in the hopes it may be useful to those who do that kind of
software

http://benchling.engineering/dna-regex-search/

-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays


From eliz at gnu.org  Thu Apr 21 15:40:17 2016
From: eliz at gnu.org (Eli Zaretskii)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 22:40:17 +0300
Subject: Different names for Unicode codepoint
In-Reply-To: <87wpnqsrzz.fsf@metapensiero.it> (message from Lele Gaifax on
 Thu, 21 Apr 2016 21:04:32 +0200)
References: <87wpnqsrzz.fsf@metapensiero.it>
Message-ID: <83h9eu699a.fsf@gnu.org>

> From: Lele Gaifax <lele at metapensiero.it>
> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 21:04:32 +0200
> Cc: python-list at python.org
> 
> is there a particular reason for the slightly different names that Emacs
> (version 25.0.92) and Python (version 3.6.0a0) give to a single Unicode entity?

They don't.

> Just to mention one codepoint, ? is called "LESS THAN WITH DOT" accordingly to
> Emacs' C-x 8 RET TAB menu, while in Python:
> 
>     >>> import unicodedata
>     >>> unicodedata.name('?')
>     'LESS-THAN WITH DOT'
>     >>> print("\N{LESS THAN WITH DOT}")
>       File "<stdin>", line 1
>     SyntaxError: (unicode error) ...: unknown Unicode character name

Emacs shows both the "Name" and the "Old Name" properties of
characters as completion candidates, while Python evidently supports
only "Name".  If you type "C-x 8 RET LESS TAB", then you will see
among the completion candidates both "LESS THAN WITH DOT" and
"LESS-THAN WITH DOT".  The former is the "old name" of this character,
according to the Unicode Character Database (which is where Emacs
obtains the names and other properties of characters).


From sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 16:29:11 2016
From: sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com (sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 13:29:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Error 0*80070570
In-Reply-To: <mailman.22.1461260808.23626.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAPGOpAUxUuvXV=QJfLjYqsKEQx=hO5hFstfhJmyp4oyK21wQYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPGOpAW3s6h3w6xtZq4OCKO1Fm9BdHNWD7fnpiDfakaT4ht4HA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPGOpAWrouhZBKp6q7m9Chou7Hc+BOofg+UPAtcda31_Dc9yUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.22.1461260808.23626.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f649b333-6b11-4a44-bdf6-8f71c415d71f@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 21, 2016 at 10:47:04 AM UTC-7, Allan Leo wrote:
> I need help with this setup error.
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Allan Leo" <erissatallan at gmail.com>
> Date: Apr 21, 2016 10:06 AM
> Subject: Re: Error 0*80070570
> To: <python-list at python.org>
> Cc:
> 
> When running the  setup for your 3.5.1(32-bit version), the setup
> experiences error 0*80070570 and tells me to check the log file. What could
> be the problem and whats the solution.
> On Apr 21, 2016 7:05 AM, "Allan Leo" <erissatallan at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > When running the setup for your 3.5.1(32-bit version) the setup
> > experiences  error 0*80070570 and tells me to checkout the log file. What
> > could be the problem and whats the resolution.
> >

Justin already gave you something to try: read the log file and search Google for the error code.

How about you try those before asking a FOURTH time?  I'll even give you a handy link so you don't have to search yourself:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=0x80070570+error+when+installing+python


From eryksun at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 16:51:03 2016
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 15:51:03 -0500
Subject: Error 0*80070570
In-Reply-To: <CAPGOpAW3s6h3w6xtZq4OCKO1Fm9BdHNWD7fnpiDfakaT4ht4HA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPGOpAUxUuvXV=QJfLjYqsKEQx=hO5hFstfhJmyp4oyK21wQYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPGOpAW3s6h3w6xtZq4OCKO1Fm9BdHNWD7fnpiDfakaT4ht4HA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1atKmhnGXQvjX3YXsGqczMGzKewkdiTia0dE4g7p2ZF2WA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 4:06 AM, Allan Leo <erissatallan at gmail.com> wrote:
> When running the  setup for your 3.5.1(32-bit version), the setup
> experiences error 0*80070570 and tells me to check the log file. What could
> be the problem and whats the solution.

ERROR_FILE_CORRUPT (0x0570) seems to occur frequently with the new
installer. Are you using the web installer or the offline installer,
i.e. what's the name of the file you downloaded? What version of
Windows do you have, i.e. what does running "ver" print in the command
prompt? Or, in more detail, what does the following print?

    wmic os get buildnumber,caption,csdversion,osarchitecture /value


From p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt  Thu Apr 21 17:43:05 2016
From: p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 22:43:05 +0100
Subject: A pickle problem!
Message-ID: <nfbhh6$dbd$1@gioia.aioe.org>

Hi.

Why in this code fragment self.__name is not kept between pickle
dumps/loads? How to fix it?

Thanks.

import pickle
import pandas as pd
import numpy as np

class C(pd.DataFrame):
	def __init__(self,name,*a,**b):
		super(C,self).__init__(*a,**b)
		self.__name=name

	def GetName(self):
		return self.__name


dates = pd.date_range('20130101', periods=6)
c = C("FOO",np.random.randn(6,4), index=dates, columns=list('ABCD'))

cd=pickle.dumps(c,pickle.HIGHEST_PROTOCOL)

d=pickle.loads(cd)

d.GetName()

# AttributeError: 'C' object has no attribute '_C__name'


From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Thu Apr 21 21:34:59 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 18:34:59 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>

Greetings,

Thanks to everyone for providing feedback. Here's my revised code to 
generate a set of chess pieces.


class PieceFactory(object):

         def factory(color, piece, position):
             if piece == 'Bishop':
                 return Bishop(color, position)
             if piece == 'King':
                 return King(color, position)
             if piece == 'Knight':
                 return Knight(color, position)
             if piece == 'Pawn':
                 return Pawn(color, position)
             if piece == 'Queen':
                 return Queen(color, position)
             if piece == 'Rook':
                 return Rook(color, position)

             raise PieceException('No valid Piece object for factory, 
got {}'
                                  ' instead'.format(piece))

         factory = staticmethod(factory)


def generate_set(color, pieces, positions):

     for piece, position in zip(pieces, positions):
         yield getattr(PieceFactory, 'factory')(color, piece, position)


The input values for 'pieces' and 'positions' are 16-item lists zipped 
together to produce a piece name and a position coordinate for the 
factory method. With slight modifications to the code, the factory 
method could also return checker pieces.

I got the factory method from here: 
http://python-3-patterns-idioms-test.readthedocs.org/en/latest/Factory.html

I do plan to incorporate a sanity test in each Piece class to validate 
the initial position value. Pawns have 16 specific positions. Bishop, 
Knight and Rook each have four specific positions. King and Queen each 
have two specific positions. An invalid value will raise an exception.

Finally, VARS['VARIABLE_NAME'] got change to const['variable_name']. 
Should smell better.

Thanks,

Chris R



From p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt  Thu Apr 21 21:52:27 2016
From: p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 02:52:27 +0100
Subject: A pickle problem!
References: <nfbhh6$dbd$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <nfc04n$u2o$1@gioia.aioe.org>

?s 22:43 de 21-04-2016, Paulo da Silva escreveu:
> Hi.
> 
> Why in this code fragment self.__name is not kept between pickle
> dumps/loads? How to fix it?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> import pickle
> import pandas as pd
> import numpy as np
> 
> class C(pd.DataFrame):
> 	def __init__(self,name,*a,**b):
> 		super(C,self).__init__(*a,**b)
> 		self.__name=name
> 
> 	def GetName(self):
> 		return self.__name
> 
# Adding this works but looks tricky!

	def __getstate__(self):
		dfstate=super(C,self).__getstate__()
		cstate=(dfstate,self.__name)
		return cstate

	def __setstate__(self,cstate):
		super(C,self).__setstate__(cstate[0])
		self.__name=cstate[1]

> 
> dates = pd.date_range('20130101', periods=6)
> c = C("FOO",np.random.randn(6,4), index=dates, columns=list('ABCD'))
> 
> cd=pickle.dumps(c,pickle.HIGHEST_PROTOCOL)
> 
> d=pickle.loads(cd)
> 
> d.GetName()
> 
> # AttributeError: 'C' object has no attribute '_C__name'
> 



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Apr 21 21:54:59 2016
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 20:54:59 -0500
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <20160421205459.23db0082@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2016-04-21 18:34, Christopher Reimer wrote:
> class PieceFactory(object):
> 
>          def factory(color, piece, position):
>              if piece == 'Bishop':
>                  return Bishop(color, position)
>              if piece == 'King':
>                  return King(color, position)
>              if piece == 'Knight':
>                  return Knight(color, position)
>              if piece == 'Pawn':
>                  return Pawn(color, position)
>              if piece == 'Queen':
>                  return Queen(color, position)
>              if piece == 'Rook':
>                  return Rook(color, position)
> 
>              raise PieceException('No valid Piece object for
> factory, got {}'
>                                   ' instead'.format(piece))
> 
>          factory = staticmethod(factory)

I'd simplify this code to something like

  class PieceFactory(object):
    @staticmethod
    def factory(color, piece, position):
      try:
        return {
          'Bishop': Bishop,
          'King': King,
          'Knight': Knight,
          'Pawn': Pawn,
          'Queen': Queen,
          'Rook': Rook,
          }[piece](color, position)
      except KeyError:
        raise PieceException(...)

which removes some of the redundancy.  I might even be tempted to
simply ignore the exception and let the KeyError percolate up the
call-stack if someone calls it with an unknown piece/key, rather
than converting it into a PieceException.

-tkc






From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Apr 21 22:10:47 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 19:10:47 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <57198827.1020608@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/21/2016 06:34 PM, Christopher Reimer wrote:

> class PieceFactory(object):
 > [...]

Better.

> I do plan to incorporate a sanity test in each Piece class to validate
> the initial position value. Pawns have 16 specific positions. Bishop,
> Knight and Rook each have four specific positions. King and Queen each
> have two specific positions. An invalid value will raise an exception.

This will make it so you cannot use your PieceFactory for custom setups.

--
~Ethan~



From me at ixokai.io  Thu Apr 21 22:20:13 2016
From: me at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 19:20:13 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016, at 06:34 PM, Christopher Reimer wrote:
> class PieceFactory(object):
> 
>          def factory(color, piece, position):
>              if piece == 'Bishop':
>                  return Bishop(color, position)
>              if piece == 'King':
>                  return King(color, position)
>              if piece == 'Knight':
>                  return Knight(color, position)
>              if piece == 'Pawn':
>                  return Pawn(color, position)
>              if piece == 'Queen':
>                  return Queen(color, position)
>              if piece == 'Rook':
>                  return Rook(color, position)

This whole section is begging for a dictionary. Like...

_PIECE_TYPES= {"Bishop": Bishop, "King": King, ...]

class PieceFactory(object):
    def factory(color, piece, position):
        klass = __PIECE_TYPES.get(piece)
        if klass is None:
            raise PieceException("...")

        return klass(color, position)

Or something like that.

That said, I'm not sure why its not just a function that does the same
thing. Why is it in a class that only does one thing? You never even
instantiate it.

> def generate_set(color, pieces, positions):
>      for piece, position in zip(pieces, positions):
>          yield getattr(PieceFactory, 'factory')(color, piece, position)

Whyyy are you using getattr? Something wrong with
PieceFactory.factory(color, piece, position)? (Or, better yet, yield
piece_factory(color, piece, position) where piece_factory is just a
function)

> I got the factory method from here: 
> http://python-3-patterns-idioms-test.readthedocs.org/en/latest/Factory.html

I... that... what... I'd forget that link and pretend you never went
there. Its not helpful.

> Finally, VARS['VARIABLE_NAME'] got change to const['variable_name']. 
> Should smell better.

I don't know that this changes anything about the small at all. What's
the contents of this big dictionary that has everything in it for some
reason?

That said, dear god, 'piece' doesn't look like an english word to me
anymore. I've never suffered semantic satiation from text before.

--Stephen
m e @ i x o k a i . i o


From steve at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 21 22:22:09 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 12:22:09 +1000
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <mailman.0.1461288908.2861.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57198ad3$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 22 Apr 2016 11:34 am, Christopher Reimer wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> Thanks to everyone for providing feedback. Here's my revised code to
> generate a set of chess pieces.

> class PieceFactory(object):
> 
>          def factory(color, piece, position):
>              if piece == 'Bishop':
>                  return Bishop(color, position)
>              if piece == 'King':
>                  return King(color, position)
>              if piece == 'Knight':
>                  return Knight(color, position)
>              if piece == 'Pawn':
>                  return Pawn(color, position)
>              if piece == 'Queen':
>                  return Queen(color, position)
>              if piece == 'Rook':
>                  return Rook(color, position)
> 
>              raise PieceException('No valid Piece object for factory,
> got {}'
>                                   ' instead'.format(piece))
> 
>          factory = staticmethod(factory)


Eww :-)

Creating an entire class with no state just to hold one method is an abuse
of classes. If your class doesn't include both state (data) and behaviour
(methods), it probably shouldn't be a class.


class King: ...
class Queeen: ... 
# etc.

PIECES = dict((piece.__name__, piece) for piece in 
              [King, Queen, Bishop, Knight, Rook, Pawn])

def make_piece(color, name, position):
    name = name.title()  # Accept 'king', 'KING', 'King' etc.
    P = PIECES.get(name, None)
    if P is None:
        raise PieceException('unknown name %r' % name)
    return P(color, position)



> def generate_set(color, pieces, positions):
>      for piece, position in zip(pieces, positions):
>          yield getattr(PieceFactory, 'factory')(color, piece, position)


def generate_pieces(color, names, positions):
    for name, position in zip(names, positions):
        yield make_piece(color, name, position)




-- 
Steven



From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Thu Apr 21 22:55:18 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 19:55:18 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <20160421205459.23db0082@bigbox.christie.dr>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <20160421205459.23db0082@bigbox.christie.dr>
Message-ID: <57199296.4000404@icloud.com>

On 4/21/2016 6:54 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
>
> I'd simplify this code to something like
>
>    class PieceFactory(object):
>      @staticmethod
>      def factory(color, piece, position):
>        try:
>          return {
>            'Bishop': Bishop,
>            'King': King,
>            'Knight': Knight,
>            'Pawn': Pawn,
>            'Queen': Queen,
>            'Rook': Rook,
>            }[piece](color, position)
>        except KeyError:
>          raise PieceException(...)

I like this better. I'll probably remove the try/except and let the 
KeyError filter up.

Thanks,

Chris R.


From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Thu Apr 21 23:11:10 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 20:11:10 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <57198827.1020608@stoneleaf.us>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <57198827.1020608@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <5719964E.2050400@icloud.com>

On 4/21/2016 7:10 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
>> I do plan to incorporate a sanity test in each Piece class to validate
>> the initial position value. Pawns have 16 specific positions. Bishop,
>> Knight and Rook each have four specific positions. King and Queen each
>> have two specific positions. An invalid value will raise an exception.
>
> This will make it so you cannot use your PieceFactory for custom setups.
>

The sanity check won't be in the PieceFactory, but in the Piece class as 
an interface and each Piece subclass will implement the correct 
positions for comparison.

Thank you,

Chris R.


From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Thu Apr 21 23:33:57 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 20:33:57 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com>

On 4/21/2016 7:20 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> Whyyy are you using getattr? Something wrong with 
> PieceFactory.factory(color, piece, position)? (Or, better yet, yield 
> piece_factory(color, piece, position) where piece_factory is just a 
> function)

Because the example I found used it, I implemented it, and it worked in 
my code. Based on feedback that I gotten from this list, I'll go back 
and clean it up.

> I... that... what... I'd forget that link and pretend you never went
> there. Its not helpful.

I found it on the Internet, so it must be true -- and Pythonic at that!

> What's the contents of this big dictionary that has everything in it 
> for some reason?

Keep in mind that I'm coming from a Java background (not by choice) with 
a smattering of C programming. I initially had ALL THESE CONSTANTS in 
different parts of my code and couldn't easily use them across different 
modules. I didn't like all these constants, created a singleton class 
that uses ConfigParser, dumped everything into a .ini file, and accessed 
from in each module. As I learn to write Pythonic code, the constants 
may go away. Switching from my original code to the factory method 
eliminated a half-dozen constants.

Thank you,

Chris R.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Apr 22 00:46:51 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 21:46:51 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <5719ACBB.8020905@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/21/2016 08:33 PM, Christopher Reimer wrote:
> On 4/21/2016 7:20 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:

> Keep in mind that I'm coming from a Java background (not by choice) with
> a smattering of C programming.

A refugee!  Water!  Food!  import this!!  :)

Oh!  and Enum!!!  ;)

--
~Ethan~



From eryksun at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 01:06:08 2016
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 00:06:08 -0500
Subject: Error 0*80070570
In-Reply-To: <CAPGOpAUM0HbiNKXo_8gRFTy81hU141vnHZGNahLLWxavqe0Obg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPGOpAUxUuvXV=QJfLjYqsKEQx=hO5hFstfhJmyp4oyK21wQYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPGOpAW3s6h3w6xtZq4OCKO1Fm9BdHNWD7fnpiDfakaT4ht4HA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACL+1atKmhnGXQvjX3YXsGqczMGzKewkdiTia0dE4g7p2ZF2WA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPGOpAUM0HbiNKXo_8gRFTy81hU141vnHZGNahLLWxavqe0Obg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1av5LtoZc417njS_pO-4=3je9yK_p1fmu+-+65+FM=PXCw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 11:15 PM, Allan Leo <erissatallan at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 21, 2016 9:51 PM, "eryk sun" <eryksun at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 4:06 AM, Allan Leo <erissatallan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > When running the  setup for your 3.5.1(32-bit version), the setup
>> > experiences error 0*80070570 and tells me to check the log file. What
>> > could be the problem and whats the solution.
>>
>> ERROR_FILE_CORRUPT (0x0570) seems to occur frequently with the new
>> installer. Are you using the web installer or the offline installer,
>> i.e. what's the name of the file you downloaded? What version of
>> Windows do you have, i.e. what does running "ver" print in the command
>> prompt? Or, in more detail, what does the following print?
>>
>>     wmic os get buildnumber,caption,csdversion,osarchitecture /value
>
> I'm using the offline installer, windows 7 pro, Java-8u92-windows-i586.exe.

The 32-bit offline installer is named "python-3.5.1.exe". Delete the
copy you downloaded, clear your browser cache, and try again.


From me at ixokai.io  Fri Apr 22 01:25:24 2016
From: me at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 22:25:24 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1461302724.477236.586265777.181ACCA0@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016, at 08:33 PM, Christopher Reimer wrote:
> On 4/21/2016 7:20 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> > I... that... what... I'd forget that link and pretend you never went
> > there. Its not helpful.
> 
> I found it on the Internet, so it must be true -- and Pythonic at that!

My advice is to not look at that site further. I can't count the number
of things that are just... not useful or helpful. 

Directly translating the Gang of Four Design Pattern book to Python
doesn't generally result in useful ideas, except in certain abstractions
like the visitor pattern when you're designing big systems. 



> 
> > What's the contents of this big dictionary that has everything in it 
> > for some reason?
> 
> Keep in mind that I'm coming from a Java background (not by choice) with 
> a smattering of C programming. I initially had ALL THESE CONSTANTS in 
> different parts of my code and couldn't easily use them across different 
> modules. I didn't like all these constants, created a singleton class 
> that uses ConfigParser, dumped everything into a .ini file, and accessed 
> from in each module. As I learn to write Pythonic code, the constants 
> may go away. Switching from my original code to the factory method 
> eliminated a half-dozen constants.

I'm not criticizing, I'm *asking* in the hopes you'll explain what
you're doing better, so I can understand and give advice that's more
relevant: I don't understand what it is you're doing with the VARS or
const dictionary. Even with your explanation here, I don't get it. 

Why do you need to read VARS["COLOR_BLACK"] or the new
const["COLOR_BLACK"} from a configuration file? How is this stuff
configurable? 

Why not, 'color in ("black", "white")'?

The only reason I can think of why you'd want to read what is "black" or
"white" out of a configuration file is internationalization, and if
that's your aim, there's a couple really good projects I can recommend
that solve that issue better. 

I can't think of any reason why you'd want a structure like:
struct = {}
struct["COLOR_BLACK"] = "black"
struct["COLOR_WHITE"] = "white"

"black" is a perfectly good way to express "black", you have this
indirection/abstraction for a reason I don't understand. Granted, maybe
this is a heavy javaism, and I'm utterly ignorant of Java, but my C/C++
mind can't think of a reason for this either.

That said, if you're wanting to share constants across different parts
of your code, use a module.

Create a module, say, things.py, that itself doesn't import other
things, and it says:

black = "Black"
white = "White"

(Bear in mind I still don't know why you want or need this indirection)

Then you "import things" and refer to those constants as things.black,
things.white.

You can then "if color in (things.black, things.white)". Maybe even "if
color in things.colors" if in your things file you have things = (black,
white).

Modules are great for sharing information. The admonition of GLOBALS R
BAD is not as strong in Python as you find in some other languages.
(Don't take that to mean GLOBALS R GUD, granted. Passing state is best
when it makes sense).

--S
m e @ i x o k a i . i o


From dreamcreator2000 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 04:07:00 2016
From: dreamcreator2000 at gmail.com (Kiril Bard)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 02:07:00 -0600
Subject: a problem with importing pygame
Message-ID: <CA+LbMjZatCHwk-mpGxbnLJS4vugj8RvUy9kuwFHsa-mW7mfvDg@mail.gmail.com>

I use python for my school work and I wanted to download it at home. I had
my teacher download the version to a flash drive and it still doesn't seem
to work. The version that I got  from the flash drive was python 3.4.2 and
I think I got a 32 bit or a 64 bit pygame  for a windows machine. The
program does not import pygame, it says that there is no module named
pygame.


From harirammanohar at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 04:59:09 2016
From: harirammanohar at gmail.com (harirammanohar at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 01:59:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
In-Reply-To: <lf5fuufqe81.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5fuufqe81.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <991c5867-27d1-4e75-aa52-a7d47e626b74@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 21, 2016 at 7:03:00 PM UTC+5:30, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> harirammanohar at gmail.com writes:
> 
> > On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 12:38:03 PM UTC+5:30,
> > hariram... at gmail.com wrote:
> >> HI All,
> >> 
> >> can you help me out in doing below. 
> >> 
> >> file: 
> >> <start> 
> >>  guava 
> >> fruit 
> >> <end> 
> >> <start> 
> >>  mango 
> >> fruit 
> >> <end> 
> >> <start> 
> >>  orange 
> >> fruit 
> >> <end> 
> >> 
> >> need to delete from start to end if it contains mango in a file...
> >> 
> >> output should be: 
> >> 
> >> <start> 
> >>  guava 
> >> fruit 
> >> <end> 
> >> <start> 
> >>  orange 
> >> fruit 
> >> <end> 
> >> 
> >> Thank you
> >
> > any one can guide me ? why xml tree parsing is not working if i have
> > root.tag and root.attrib as mentioned in earlier post...
> 
> Assuming the real consists of lines between a start marker and end
> marker, a winning plan is to collect a group of lines, deal with it, and
> move on.
> 
> The following code implements something close to the plan. You need to
> adapt it a bit to have your own source of lines and to restore the end
> marker in the output and to account for your real use case and for
> differences in taste and judgment. - The plan is as described above, but
> there are many ways to implement it.
> 
> from io import StringIO
> 
> text = '''\
> <start> 
>   guava 
> fruit 
> <end> 
> <start>
>   mango
> fruit
> <end>
> <start> 
>   orange 
> fruit 
> <end> 
> '''
> 
> def records(source):
>     current = []
>     for line in source:
>         if line.startswith('<end>'):
>             yield current
>             current = []
>         else:
>             current.append(line)
> 
> def hasmango(record):
>     return any('mango' in it for it in record)
> 
> for record in records(StringIO(text)):
>     hasmango(record) or print(*record)

Hi,

not working....this is the output i am getting...

\
 <start>
   guava
 fruit

<start>
   orange
 fruit


From harirammanohar at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 05:00:30 2016
From: harirammanohar at gmail.com (harirammanohar at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 02:00:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9.1461237901.23626.python-list@python.org>
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <nfad8p$m3h$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.9.1461237901.23626.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7fc52496-baf8-41ef-8f5e-76d409c6df84@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 21, 2016 at 4:55:18 PM UTC+5:30, Peter Otten wrote:
> harirammanohar at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 12:38:03 PM UTC+5:30, hariram... at gmail.com
> > wrote:
> >> HI All,
> >> 
> >> can you help me out in doing below.
> >> 
> >> file:
> >> <start>
> >>  guava
> >> fruit
> >> <end>
> >> <start>
> >>  mango
> >> fruit
> >> <end>
> >> <start>
> >>  orange
> >> fruit
> >> <end>
> 
> Is that literally what you have in the file?
> 
> > any one can guide me ? why xml tree parsing is not working if i have
> > root.tag and root.attrib as mentioned in earlier post...
> 
> The data above is not valid xml. Instead of
> 
> <start>...<end>
> 
> you need
> 
> <start>...</start>
> 
> i. e. the end tag must be the same as the start tag, but with a leading "/".

@peter yes here it is not xml, but real data is an xml..believe me..


From harirammanohar at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 05:14:07 2016
From: harirammanohar at gmail.com (harirammanohar at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 02:14:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
In-Reply-To: <7fc52496-baf8-41ef-8f5e-76d409c6df84@googlegroups.com>
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <nfad8p$m3h$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.9.1461237901.23626.python-list@python.org>
 <7fc52496-baf8-41ef-8f5e-76d409c6df84@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6ff5e82-921c-419e-a07d-f40e46f79b8b@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 2:30:45 PM UTC+5:30, hariram... at gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, April 21, 2016 at 4:55:18 PM UTC+5:30, Peter Otten wrote:
> > harirammanohar at gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 12:38:03 PM UTC+5:30, hariram... at gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> > >> HI All,
> > >> 
> > >> can you help me out in doing below.
> > >> 
> > >> file:
> > >> <start>
> > >>  guava
> > >> fruit
> > >> <end>
> > >> <start>
> > >>  mango
> > >> fruit
> > >> <end>
> > >> <start>
> > >>  orange
> > >> fruit
> > >> <end>
> > 
> > Is that literally what you have in the file?
> > 
> > > any one can guide me ? why xml tree parsing is not working if i have
> > > root.tag and root.attrib as mentioned in earlier post...
> > 
> > The data above is not valid xml. Instead of
> > 
> > <start>...<end>
> > 
> > you need
> > 
> > <start>...</start>
> > 
> > i. e. the end tag must be the same as the start tag, but with a leading "/".
> 
> @peter yes here it is not xml, but real data is an xml..believe me..

@peter this is the similar xml i am having, you can correlate.

https://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-5.5-doc/appdev/web.xml.txt


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Apr 22 05:24:06 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 11:24:06 +0200
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5fuufqe81.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <991c5867-27d1-4e75-aa52-a7d47e626b74@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nfcqjs$guu$1@ger.gmane.org>

harirammanohar at gmail.com wrote:

> On Thursday, April 21, 2016 at 7:03:00 PM UTC+5:30, Jussi Piitulainen
> wrote:
>> harirammanohar at gmail.com writes:
>> 
>> > On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 12:38:03 PM UTC+5:30,
>> > hariram... at gmail.com wrote:
>> >> HI All,
>> >> 
>> >> can you help me out in doing below.
>> >> 
>> >> file:
>> >> <start>
>> >>  guava
>> >> fruit
>> >> <end>
>> >> <start>
>> >>  mango
>> >> fruit
>> >> <end>
>> >> <start>
>> >>  orange
>> >> fruit
>> >> <end>
>> >> 
>> >> need to delete from start to end if it contains mango in a file...
>> >> 
>> >> output should be:
>> >> 
>> >> <start>
>> >>  guava
>> >> fruit
>> >> <end>
>> >> <start>
>> >>  orange
>> >> fruit
>> >> <end>
>> >> 
>> >> Thank you
>> >
>> > any one can guide me ? why xml tree parsing is not working if i have
>> > root.tag and root.attrib as mentioned in earlier post...
>> 
>> Assuming the real consists of lines between a start marker and end
>> marker, a winning plan is to collect a group of lines, deal with it, and
>> move on.
>> 
>> The following code implements something close to the plan. You need to
>> adapt it a bit to have your own source of lines and to restore the end
>> marker in the output and to account for your real use case and for
>> differences in taste and judgment. - The plan is as described above, but
>> there are many ways to implement it.
>> 
>> from io import StringIO
>> 
>> text = '''\
>> <start>
>>   guava
>> fruit
>> <end>
>> <start>
>>   mango
>> fruit
>> <end>
>> <start>
>>   orange
>> fruit
>> <end>
>> '''
>> 
>> def records(source):
>>     current = []
>>     for line in source:
>>         if line.startswith('<end>'):
>>             yield current
>>             current = []
>>         else:
>>             current.append(line)
>> 
>> def hasmango(record):
>>     return any('mango' in it for it in record)
>> 
>> for record in records(StringIO(text)):
>>     hasmango(record) or print(*record)
> 
> Hi,
> 
> not working....this is the output i am getting...
> 
> \

This means that the line

>> text = '''\

has trailing whitespace in your copy of the script.

>  <start>
>    guava
>  fruit
> 
> <start>
>    orange
>  fruit

Jussi forgot to add the "<end>..." line to the group. To fix this change the 
generator to

def records(source):
    current = []
    for line in source:
        current.append(line)
        if line.startswith('<end>'):
            yield current
            current = []


>>     hasmango(record) or print(*record)

The

print(*record)

inserts spaces between record entries (i. e. at the beginning of all lines 
except the first) and adds a trailing newline. You can avoid this by 
specifying the delimiters explicitly:

if not hasmango(record):
    print(*record, sep="", end="")

Even with these changes code still looks somewhat brittle...



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Apr 22 05:50:14 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 11:50:14 +0200
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <nfad8p$m3h$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.9.1461237901.23626.python-list@python.org>
 <7fc52496-baf8-41ef-8f5e-76d409c6df84@googlegroups.com>
 <a6ff5e82-921c-419e-a07d-f40e46f79b8b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nfcs4n$9r5$1@ger.gmane.org>

harirammanohar at gmail.com wrote:

>> @peter yes here it is not xml, but real data is an xml..believe me..
> 
> @peter this is the similar xml i am having, you can correlate.
> 
> https://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-5.5-doc/appdev/web.xml.txt

This is still too vague.

If you post the code you actually tried in a small standalone script 
together with a small sample xml file that produces the same failure as your 
actual data I or someone might help you fix it.



From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Fri Apr 22 07:10:46 2016
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 14:10:46 +0300
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5fuufqe81.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <991c5867-27d1-4e75-aa52-a7d47e626b74@googlegroups.com>
 <nfcqjs$guu$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.11.1461317067.2861.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lf57ffpdhl5.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Peter Otten writes:

> harirammanohar at gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, April 21, 2016 at 7:03:00 PM UTC+5:30, Jussi Piitulainen
>> wrote:
>>> harirammanohar at gmail.com writes:
>>> 
>>> > On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 12:38:03 PM UTC+5:30,
>>> > hariram... at gmail.com wrote:
>>> >> HI All,
>>> >> 
>>> >> can you help me out in doing below.
>>> >> 
>>> >> file:
>>> >> <start>
>>> >>  guava
>>> >> fruit
>>> >> <end>
>>> >> <start>
>>> >>  mango
>>> >> fruit
>>> >> <end>
>>> >> <start>
>>> >>  orange
>>> >> fruit
>>> >> <end>
>>> >> 
>>> >> need to delete from start to end if it contains mango in a file...
>>> >> 
>>> >> output should be:
>>> >> 
>>> >> <start>
>>> >>  guava
>>> >> fruit
>>> >> <end>
>>> >> <start>
>>> >>  orange
>>> >> fruit
>>> >> <end>
>>> >> 
>>> >> Thank you
>>> >
>>> > any one can guide me ? why xml tree parsing is not working if i have
>>> > root.tag and root.attrib as mentioned in earlier post...
>>> 
>>> Assuming the real consists of lines between a start marker and end
>>> marker, a winning plan is to collect a group of lines, deal with it, and
>>> move on.
>>> 
>>> The following code implements something close to the plan. You need to
>>> adapt it a bit to have your own source of lines and to restore the end
>>> marker in the output and to account for your real use case and for
>>> differences in taste and judgment. - The plan is as described above, but
>>> there are many ways to implement it.
>>> 
>>> from io import StringIO
>>> 
>>> text = '''\
>>> <start>
>>>   guava
>>> fruit
>>> <end>
>>> <start>
>>>   mango
>>> fruit
>>> <end>
>>> <start>
>>>   orange
>>> fruit
>>> <end>
>>> '''
>>> 
>>> def records(source):
>>>     current = []
>>>     for line in source:
>>>         if line.startswith('<end>'):
>>>             yield current
>>>             current = []
>>>         else:
>>>             current.append(line)
>>> 
>>> def hasmango(record):
>>>     return any('mango' in it for it in record)
>>> 
>>> for record in records(StringIO(text)):
>>>     hasmango(record) or print(*record)
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> not working....this is the output i am getting...
>> 
>> \
>
> This means that the line
>
>>> text = '''\
>
> has trailing whitespace in your copy of the script.

That's a nuisance. I wish otherwise undefined escape sequences in
strings raised an error, similar to a stray space after a line
continuation character.

>>  <start>
>>    guava
>>  fruit
>> 
>> <start>
>>    orange
>>  fruit
>
> Jussi forgot to add the "<end>..." line to the group.

I didn't forget. I meant what I said when I said the OP needs to adapt
the code to (among other things) restore the end marker in the output.
If they can't be bothered to do anything at all, it's their problem.

It was already known that this is not the actual format of the data.

> To fix this change the generator to
>
> def records(source):
>     current = []
>     for line in source:
>         current.append(line)
>         if line.startswith('<end>'):
>             yield current
>             current = []

Oops, I notice that I forgot to start a new record only on encountering
a '<start>' line. That should probably be done, unless the format is
intended to be exactly a sequence of "<start>\n- -\n<end>\n".

>>>     hasmango(record) or print(*record)
>
> The
>
> print(*record)
>
> inserts spaces between record entries (i. e. at the beginning of all
> lines except the first) and adds a trailing newline.

Yes, I forgot about the space. Sorry about that.

The final newline was intentional. Perhaps I should have added the end
marker there instead (given my preference to not drag it together with
the data lines), like so:

   print(*record, sep = "", end = "<end>\n")

Or so:

   print(*record, sep = "")
   print("<end>")

Or so:

   for line in record:
       print(line.rstrip("\n")
   else:
       print("<end>")

Or:

   for line in record:
       print(line.rstrip("\n")
   else:
       if record and not record[-1].strip() == "<end>":
           print("<end>")

But all this is beside the point that to deal with the stated problem
one might want to obtain access to a whole record *first*, then check if
it contains "mango" in the intended way (details missing but at least
"mango\n" as a full line counts as an occurrence), and only *then* print
the whole record (if it doesn't contain "mango").

I can think of two other ways - one if the data can be accessed only
once - but they seem more complicated to me. Hm, well, if it's XML, as
stated in another branch of this thread and contrary to the form of the
example data in this branch, there's a third way that may be good, but
here I'm responding to a line-oriented format.

> You can avoid this by specifying the delimiters explicitly:
>
> if not hasmango(record):
>     print(*record, sep="", end="")
>
> Even with these changes code still looks somewhat brittle...

That depends on the actual data format, and on what really is intended
to trigger the filter. This approach is a complete waste of effort if
there are no guarantees of things being there on their own lines, for
example.

Ok, that "\ " not only looks brittle but actually is brittle. The one
time I used that slash, I now regret doing so. Here's a fixed version.
(Not sure of the significance of the number of spaces that start the
first data line. They seem to have doubled along the way.)

text = '''<start>
  guava
fruit
<end>
<start>
  mango
fruit
<end>
<start>
  orange
fruit
<end>
'''


From jldunn2000 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 07:30:15 2016
From: jldunn2000 at gmail.com (loial)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 04:30:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Running lpr on windows from python
In-Reply-To: <7ec37d41-61eb-4c93-ae21-28d108c261f1@googlegroups.com>
References: <7ec37d41-61eb-4c93-ae21-28d108c261f1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <982a6a8e-f987-4e9b-ae2e-90f3d9aad4c9@googlegroups.com>

Nothing seems to work.

Even doing

import os
os.system("lpr")

still returns 
'lpr' is not recognized as an internal or external command,operable program or batch file.


Even though I can run lpr fine from the command prompt



From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Fri Apr 22 08:22:03 2016
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 13:22:03 +0100
Subject: a problem with importing pygame
In-Reply-To: <CA+LbMjZatCHwk-mpGxbnLJS4vugj8RvUy9kuwFHsa-mW7mfvDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+LbMjZatCHwk-mpGxbnLJS4vugj8RvUy9kuwFHsa-mW7mfvDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571A176B.10009@timgolden.me.uk>

On 22/04/2016 09:07, Kiril Bard wrote:
> I use python for my school work and I wanted to download it at home. I had
> my teacher download the version to a flash drive and it still doesn't seem
> to work. The version that I got  from the flash drive was python 3.4.2 and
> I think I got a 32 bit or a 64 bit pygame  for a windows machine. The
> program does not import pygame, it says that there is no module named
> pygame.
> 

Kiril.

Your description of the  problem isn't quite clear. If you haven't, I
suggest you:

* Download Python 3.4 from here:

https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-343/

(Either the "Windows x86-64 MSI installer" or the "Windows x86 MSI
installer" depending on whether you want 64 or 32-bit respectively)

Run the installer and accept the defaults (unless you have a clear
reason to do otherwise)

* Then download the corresponding version of Pygame from here:

https://bitbucket.org/pygame/pygame/downloads

Either:

https://bitbucket.org/pygame/pygame/downloads/pygame-1.9.2a0-hg_ea3b3bb8714a.win32-py3.4.msi

for 32-bit; or

https://bitbucket.org/pygame/pygame/downloads/pygame-1.9.2a0-hg_8d9e6a1f2635+.win-amd64-py3.4.msi

for 64-bit

Run the installer and accept the defaults

* Then you should be able to start Python and import pygame

If you still have problems, please post back here to see if we can help you.

TJG


From vmiacullo at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 09:33:59 2016
From: vmiacullo at gmail.com (vittorio maria iacullo)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 15:33:59 +0200
Subject: help
In-Reply-To: <CA+30X7xc4LM8fYwUCnf8jYotEkXQLZSoK-_xGvtM3gByVnEY7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+30X7xc4LM8fYwUCnf8jYotEkXQLZSoK-_xGvtM3gByVnEY7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+30X7z75veH2LeGneCvqhVh6-zNmTdTBvspNZf8X5P2NXCHXQ@mail.gmail.com>

Done! Thank you!

2016-04-22 12:57 GMT+02:00 vittorio maria iacullo <vmiacullo at gmail.com>:

> Hi
> I've just installed on my laptop python 3.5.1
>
> but I get a error message. I alredy ran the "repair session". May you tell
> me please what should I do?
>
> Best,
>
> --
>
>
> *Vittorio Maria Iacullo?*
>



-- 
*Vittorio Maria Iacullo*


From jldunn2000 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 10:15:39 2016
From: jldunn2000 at gmail.com (loial)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 07:15:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Can't run lpr from python on windows 2012 server
Message-ID: <e3eb5715-8d3b-41ff-8690-4457bc02c426@googlegroups.com>

I am reposting this question in a simpler form.

I can run lpr from the command prompt but not from python

os.system("notepad") works
os.system("lpr") does not work. Basically it says lpr is not a known program or executable

Why can I run lpr from the windows command prompt but not from python(2.7)



From random832 at fastmail.com  Fri Apr 22 10:26:47 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 10:26:47 -0400
Subject: Can't run lpr from python on windows 2012 server
In-Reply-To: <e3eb5715-8d3b-41ff-8690-4457bc02c426@googlegroups.com>
References: <e3eb5715-8d3b-41ff-8690-4457bc02c426@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1461335207.353144.586657921.2B62BB45@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Fri, Apr 22, 2016, at 10:15, loial wrote:
> I am reposting this question in a simpler form.
> 
> I can run lpr from the command prompt but not from python
> 
> os.system("notepad") works
> os.system("lpr") does not work. Basically it says lpr is not a known
> program or executable
> 
> Why can I run lpr from the windows command prompt but not from
> python(2.7)

Does lpr.exe actually physically exist in c:\windows\system32 as you
have indicated in the your earlier posts? I.e. if you actually browse
system32 with the file manager will you see lpr.exe? The problem with
your question is that it's not a standard command, so none of the rest
of us have it, which means we're half-blind trying to find your problem.


From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 22 10:56:33 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 00:56:33 +1000
Subject: Remove directory tree without following symlinks
Message-ID: <571a3ba2$0$1597$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

I want to remove a directory, including all files and subdirectories under
it, but without following symlinks. I want the symlinks to be deleted, not
the files pointed to by those symlinks.

E.g. if I have this tree:


parent/
+-- spam/
:   +-- a.txt
:   +-- b.txt
:   +-- eggs/
:   :   +-- c.txt
:   :   +-- surprise -> ../../parent
:   +-- d.txt
+-- e.txt

and I call remove_tree("parent/spam"), I want the result to be:

parent/
+-- e.txt


(Assuming that I have permission to delete all the files and directories.)

What should I use for "remove_tree"? Do I have to write my own, or does a
solution already exist?




-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 22 11:00:08 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 01:00:08 +1000
Subject: Detecting repeated subsequences of identical items
References: <571843f9$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAHVvXxTCQT0Tp3-Pd0O5mqSMDA6s=dqj+DDTpkq1AvYoCYs-7Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.7.1461228807.23626.python-list@python.org>
 <5718c457$0$1605$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAHVvXxQAPP8-31Nb3vM+=O4wYpXEuH1FH3n05N59KnqpC8C0PQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrp7ufKa194h4RrCh0F2y0FuDqaUkcV6-B-sHDWvosdKA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.12.1461247946.23626.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <571a3c78$0$1597$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 22 Apr 2016 12:12 am, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:01 AM, Oscar Benjamin
> <oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> wrote:
>> In the recursive stack overflow case what you'll usually have is
>>
>> 1) A few frames leading up to the start of recursion
>> 2) A long repetitive sequence of frames
>> 3) A few frames at the end showing how the exception was ultimately
>> triggered.
>>
>> You just need to find the cycle that makes that big long sequence.

I am not convinced that it is a cycle in the technical sense, or that the
two algorithms that Oscar linked to will necessarily find them. They may,
by chance, happen to find them sometimes, but the way the algorithms work
is by detecting periodic behaviour, and this is not periodic.

Look at the comment for Floyd's algorithm here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_detection

    # The hare moves twice as quickly as the tortoise and
    # the distance between them increases by 1 at each step.
    # Eventually they will both be inside the cycle and then, ...


but that is violated in this scenario. The hare can escape the (non-)cycle
before the tortoise even enters it. Even if both enter the "cycle", there's
no guarantee that the termination condition `tortoise == hare` will ever be
true because the cycle doesn't loop and doesn't go back to the beginning.
Hence it is not a cycle.

 
> If the stack got overflowed, there won't usually be a part 3, as part 
> 2 is the bit that hits sys.recursionlimit (unless increasing the
> recursion limit by a finite number would solve the problem). 

Don't just think of breaking the recursion limit. You might be 100 calls
deep in some complex chain of function calls when something raises
ValueError. In principle, there might not even be any recursive calls at
all.


-- 
Steven



From jldunn2000 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 11:06:35 2016
From: jldunn2000 at gmail.com (loial)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 08:06:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Can't run lpr from python on windows 2012 server
In-Reply-To: <mailman.15.1461335217.2861.python-list@python.org>
References: <e3eb5715-8d3b-41ff-8690-4457bc02c426@googlegroups.com>
 <1461335207.353144.586657921.2B62BB45@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.15.1461335217.2861.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <be0f43c0-4407-4d95-8476-004398f58cd4@googlegroups.com>

Yes it does. I finally found the solution here :

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/240019-44-error-windows

Copied lpr.exe, lprhelp.dll, and lprmonui.dll from the System32 folder to the sysWOW64 folder




On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 3:27:18 PM UTC+1, Random832 wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016, at 10:15, loial wrote:
> > I am reposting this question in a simpler form.
> > 
> > I can run lpr from the command prompt but not from python
> > 
> > os.system("notepad") works
> > os.system("lpr") does not work. Basically it says lpr is not a known
> > program or executable
> > 
> > Why can I run lpr from the windows command prompt but not from
> > python(2.7)
> 
> Does lpr.exe actually physically exist in c:\windows\system32 as you
> have indicated in the your earlier posts? I.e. if you actually browse
> system32 with the file manager will you see lpr.exe? The problem with
> your question is that it's not a standard command, so none of the rest
> of us have it, which means we're half-blind trying to find your problem.



From jldunn2000 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 11:07:48 2016
From: jldunn2000 at gmail.com (loial)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 08:07:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Running lpr on windows from python
In-Reply-To: <982a6a8e-f987-4e9b-ae2e-90f3d9aad4c9@googlegroups.com>
References: <7ec37d41-61eb-4c93-ae21-28d108c261f1@googlegroups.com>
 <982a6a8e-f987-4e9b-ae2e-90f3d9aad4c9@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fb733951-4abd-44b7-b13c-a24d92009077@googlegroups.com>

I finally found the solution here :

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/240019-44-error-windows

Copied lpr.exe, lprhelp.dll, and lprmonui.dll from the System32 folder to the sysWOW64 folder

Thanks for all your efforts


From random832 at fastmail.com  Fri Apr 22 11:09:26 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 11:09:26 -0400
Subject: Remove directory tree without following symlinks
In-Reply-To: <571a3ba2$0$1597$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <571a3ba2$0$1597$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1461337766.365000.586700849.0DDBDB0B@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Fri, Apr 22, 2016, at 10:56, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> What should I use for "remove_tree"? Do I have to write my own, or does a
> solution already exist?

In the os.walk documentation it provides a simple recipe and also
mentions shutil.rmtree


From random832 at fastmail.com  Fri Apr 22 12:02:59 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 12:02:59 -0400
Subject: Can't run lpr from python on windows 2012 server
In-Reply-To: <be0f43c0-4407-4d95-8476-004398f58cd4@googlegroups.com>
References: <e3eb5715-8d3b-41ff-8690-4457bc02c426@googlegroups.com>
 <1461335207.353144.586657921.2B62BB45@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.15.1461335217.2861.python-list@python.org>
 <be0f43c0-4407-4d95-8476-004398f58cd4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1461340979.379556.586758089.00E10C42@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Fri, Apr 22, 2016, at 11:06, loial wrote:
> Yes it does. I finally found the solution here :
> 
> http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/240019-44-error-windows
> 
> Copied lpr.exe, lprhelp.dll, and lprmonui.dll from the System32 folder to
> the sysWOW64 folder

A better solution might be to install a 64-bit version of Python.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 12:27:34 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 10:27:34 -0600
Subject: A pickle problem!
In-Reply-To: <nfc04n$u2o$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <nfbhh6$dbd$1@gioia.aioe.org> <nfc04n$u2o$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkTeXOMdAkuQ3UdcJhWNUQjzjzp4eZqmSOXtydMurka6w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 7:52 PM, Paulo da Silva
<p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt> wrote:
> ?s 22:43 de 21-04-2016, Paulo da Silva escreveu:
>> Hi.
>>
>> Why in this code fragment self.__name is not kept between pickle
>> dumps/loads? How to fix it?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> import pickle
>> import pandas as pd
>> import numpy as np
>>
>> class C(pd.DataFrame):
>>       def __init__(self,name,*a,**b):
>>               super(C,self).__init__(*a,**b)
>>               self.__name=name
>>
>>       def GetName(self):
>>               return self.__name
>>
> # Adding this works but looks tricky!
>
>         def __getstate__(self):
>                 dfstate=super(C,self).__getstate__()
>                 cstate=(dfstate,self.__name)
>                 return cstate
>
>         def __setstate__(self,cstate):
>                 super(C,self).__setstate__(cstate[0])
>                 self.__name=cstate[1]

Probably this is necessary because the DataFrame class is already
customizing its pickle behavior without taking into account the
possibility of added attributes by subclasses. I think that your
solution of wrapping the state of the superclass looks fine.


From eryksun at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 13:04:24 2016
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 12:04:24 -0500
Subject: Running lpr on windows from python
In-Reply-To: <fb733951-4abd-44b7-b13c-a24d92009077@googlegroups.com>
References: <7ec37d41-61eb-4c93-ae21-28d108c261f1@googlegroups.com>
 <982a6a8e-f987-4e9b-ae2e-90f3d9aad4c9@googlegroups.com>
 <fb733951-4abd-44b7-b13c-a24d92009077@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1au_Jh5J6ns8Avt+4hpoWL+jj0mBJdPf1mWZDoG9qhv2cQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 10:07 AM, loial <jldunn2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I finally found the solution here :
>
> http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/240019-44-error-windows
>
> Copied lpr.exe, lprhelp.dll, and lprmonui.dll from the System32 folder to the sysWOW64 folder

Using the virtual "SysNative" directory should work on Windows 7+
(Server 2008 R2). All you need is for CreateProcess to find the
executable. Finding the DLLs is done during process initialization, so
there's no need to copy them from the native System32 directory.

It works for me in 32-bit Python running in Windows 10:

    >>> if '32bit' in platform.architecture():
    ...     lpr = os.path.join(os.environ['SystemRoot'], 'SysNative', 'lpr.exe')
    ... else:
    ...     lpr = os.path.join(os.environ['SystemRoot'], 'System32', 'lpr.exe')
    ...
    >>> print(lpr)
    C:\Windows\SysNative\lpr.exe
    >>> subprocess.call(lpr)

    Sends a print job to a network printer

    Usage: lpr -S server -P printer [-C class] [-J job] [-o option]
[-x] [-d] filename

    Options:
          -S server    Name or ipaddress of the host providing lpd service
          -P printer   Name of the print queue
          -C class     Job classification for use on the burst page
          -J job       Job name to print on the burst page
          -o option    Indicates type of the file (by default assumes
a text file)
                       Use &quot;-o l&quot; for binary (e.g. postscript) files
          -x           Compatibility with SunOS 4.1.x and prior
          -d           Send data file first1


From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 22 13:14:12 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 03:14:12 +1000
Subject: Remove directory tree without following symlinks
References: <571a3ba2$0$1597$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1461337766.365000.586700849.0DDBDB0B@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.16.1461337768.2861.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <571a5be6$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 23 Apr 2016 01:09 am, Random832 wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016, at 10:56, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> What should I use for "remove_tree"? Do I have to write my own, or does a
>> solution already exist?
> 
> In the os.walk documentation it provides a simple recipe and also
> mentions shutil.rmtree

Thanks for that.

The os.walk recipe is described as a simple version of shutil.rmtree. The
documentation for rmtree seems lacking to me, but after testing it, it
appears to work as I want it: it removes symbolic links, it does not follow
them.

Is anyone else able to confirm that my understanding is correct? If so, the
documentation should probably be a bit clearer.



-- 
Steven



From eryksun at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 13:17:07 2016
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 12:17:07 -0500
Subject: Can't run lpr from python on windows 2012 server
In-Reply-To: <1461335207.353144.586657921.2B62BB45@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <e3eb5715-8d3b-41ff-8690-4457bc02c426@googlegroups.com>
 <1461335207.353144.586657921.2B62BB45@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CACL+1atVJwAtfBDZ1V+rF36bbzYB8NuehdNTwhCdAyfDJ6e=pA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 9:26 AM, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
> The problem with your question is that it's not a standard command, so none
> of the rest of us have it, which means we're half-blind trying to find your problem.

lpr is a Windows feature that you may be able to enable. It's under
"Print and Document Services" -> "LPR Port Monitor". It only installs
a 64-bit build, which is why loial is having trouble running it from
32-bit Python. But in Windows 7+ (Server 2008 R2), a 32-bit process
can use the virtual "%SystemRoot%\SysNative" directory to access files
in the native System32 directory. I can run lpr.exe from 32-bit Python
using this method.


From raguilar at churchs.com.mx  Fri Apr 22 13:34:13 2016
From: raguilar at churchs.com.mx (Ricardo Aguilar)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 12:34:13 -0500
Subject: dbf remove fields.
Message-ID: <018601d19cbd$30440090$90cc01b0$@churchs.com.mx>

Hi there i try to remove to fields in dbf table, how I can remove two
fields? 

 

I wanna to remove because I have this error "ValueError: could not convert
string to float: ****"  But I no need this field.

 

How I can remove this fields o ignore this ValueError? Any advice.

 

Ricardo Alfonso Aguilar Pineda - raguilar at churchs.com.mx
Depto. Sistemas 
867 711-5151 ext. 136

867 119 6506

 

 



From sjeik_appie at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 22 13:39:10 2016
From: sjeik_appie at hotmail.com (Albert-Jan Roskam)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 17:39:10 +0000
Subject: Remove directory tree without following symlinks
In-Reply-To: <571a5be6$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <571a3ba2$0$1597$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>,
 <1461337766.365000.586700849.0DDBDB0B@webmail.messagingengine.com>,
 <mailman.16.1461337768.2861.python-list@python.org>,
 <571a5be6$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <DUB123-W22A605538041FB2749C64B836F0@phx.gbl>



> From: steve at pearwood.info
> Subject: Re: Remove directory tree without following symlinks
> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 03:14:12 +1000
> To: python-list at python.org
> 
> On Sat, 23 Apr 2016 01:09 am, Random832 wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Apr 22, 2016, at 10:56, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> >> What should I use for "remove_tree"? Do I have to write my own, or does a
> >> solution already exist?
> > 
> > In the os.walk documentation it provides a simple recipe and also
> > mentions shutil.rmtree
> 
> Thanks for that.

FYI, Just today I found out that shutil.rmtree raises a WindowsError if the dir is read-only (or its contents). Using 'ignore_errors', won't help. Sure, no error is raised, but the dir is not deleted either! A 'force' option would be a nice improvement.



> The os.walk recipe is described as a simple version of shutil.rmtree. The
> documentation for rmtree seems lacking to me, but after testing it, it
> appears to work as I want it: it removes symbolic links, it does not follow
> them.
>
> Is anyone else able to confirm that my understanding is correct? If so, the
> documentation should probably be a bit clearer.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steven
> 
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
 		 	   		  

From eryksun at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 14:28:01 2016
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 13:28:01 -0500
Subject: Remove directory tree without following symlinks
In-Reply-To: <DUB123-W22A605538041FB2749C64B836F0@phx.gbl>
References: <571a3ba2$0$1597$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1461337766.365000.586700849.0DDBDB0B@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.16.1461337768.2861.python-list@python.org>
 <571a5be6$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <DUB123-W22A605538041FB2749C64B836F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CACL+1aueH_scSTYW1Q6pGsZ92+8OWHB6tks3SqAAaU-wb6Ac4Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:39 PM, Albert-Jan Roskam
<sjeik_appie at hotmail.com> wrote:
> FYI, Just today I found out that shutil.rmtree raises a WindowsError if the dir is read-
> only (or its contents). Using 'ignore_errors', won't help. Sure, no error is raised, but the
> dir is not deleted either! A 'force' option would be a nice improvement.

Use the onerror handler to call os.chmod(path, stat.S_IWRITE). For
example, see pip's rmtree_errorhandler:

https://github.com/pypa/pip/blob/8.1.1/pip/utils/__init__.py#L105


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Apr 22 14:28:55 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 11:28:55 -0700
Subject: dbf remove fields.
In-Reply-To: <018601d19cbd$30440090$90cc01b0$@churchs.com.mx>
References: <018601d19cbd$30440090$90cc01b0$@churchs.com.mx>
Message-ID: <571A6D67.2080502@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/22/2016 10:34 AM, Ricardo Aguilar wrote:

> Hi there i try to remove to fields in dbf table, how I can remove two
> fields?
>
> I wanna to remove because I have this error "ValueError: could not convert
> string to float: ****"  But I no need this field.

Have you tried my dbf package?

   https://pypi.python.org/pypi/dbf

I'm pretty sure it handles such values.

--
~Ethan~



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Apr 22 14:32:43 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 11:32:43 -0700
Subject: dbf remove fields.
In-Reply-To: <571A6D67.2080502@stoneleaf.us>
References: <018601d19cbd$30440090$90cc01b0$@churchs.com.mx>
 <571A6D67.2080502@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <571A6E4B.9090501@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/22/2016 11:28 AM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 04/22/2016 10:34 AM, Ricardo Aguilar wrote:
>
>> Hi there i try to remove to fields in dbf table, how I can remove two
>> fields?
>>
>> I wanna to remove because I have this error "ValueError: could not
>> convert
>> string to float: ****"  But I no need this field.
>
> Have you tried my dbf package?
>
>    https://pypi.python.org/pypi/dbf
>
> I'm pretty sure it handles such values.

Yup, just checked -- it transforms invalid **** values to None.  Since 
you're not using those fields that won't be a problem (otherwise you 
would have filter them out).

--
~Ethan~



From p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt  Fri Apr 22 16:21:17 2016
From: p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 21:21:17 +0100
Subject: A pickle problem!
References: <nfbhh6$dbd$1@gioia.aioe.org> <nfc04n$u2o$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <CALwzidkTeXOMdAkuQ3UdcJhWNUQjzjzp4eZqmSOXtydMurka6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1461342496.2861.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nfe13p$9p2$1@gioia.aioe.org>

?s 17:27 de 22-04-2016, Ian Kelly escreveu:
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 7:52 PM, Paulo da Silva
> <p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt> wrote:
>> ?s 22:43 de 21-04-2016, Paulo da Silva escreveu:
...

> 
> Probably this is necessary because the DataFrame class is already
> customizing its pickle behavior without taking into account the
> possibility of added attributes by subclasses. I think that your
> solution of wrapping the state of the superclass looks fine.
> 
Thank you.

For any other vars ...
Is there a way to get the vars of only the derived class?



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 16:33:39 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 14:33:39 -0600
Subject: A pickle problem!
In-Reply-To: <nfe13p$9p2$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <nfbhh6$dbd$1@gioia.aioe.org> <nfc04n$u2o$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <CALwzidkTeXOMdAkuQ3UdcJhWNUQjzjzp4eZqmSOXtydMurka6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1461342496.2861.python-list@python.org>
 <nfe13p$9p2$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkiqMv+wYhEAL26a6TzyUveJA9TaTEyf8Aeaqfrdr54PA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 2:21 PM, Paulo da Silva
<p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt> wrote:
> ?s 17:27 de 22-04-2016, Ian Kelly escreveu:
>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 7:52 PM, Paulo da Silva
>> <p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt> wrote:
>>> ?s 22:43 de 21-04-2016, Paulo da Silva escreveu:
> ...
>
>>
>> Probably this is necessary because the DataFrame class is already
>> customizing its pickle behavior without taking into account the
>> possibility of added attributes by subclasses. I think that your
>> solution of wrapping the state of the superclass looks fine.
>>
> Thank you.
>
> For any other vars ...
> Is there a way to get the vars of only the derived class?

If they start with two underscores then you could use the name
mangling to find them. If the class name is MyClass then look for any
keys in the instance dict that start with '_MyClass__'. Otherwise no,
you'd have to list them explicitly.


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 16:40:45 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 20:40:45 +0000
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <1461302724.477236.586265777.181ACCA0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com>
 <1461302724.477236.586265777.181ACCA0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkNz5aeS5Jo+3yc+nWjUKnfhe=0zBVNeNHUMHD6Uj9VyEA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 1:26 AM Stephen Hansen <me at ixokai.io> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016, at 08:33 PM, Christopher Reimer wrote:
> > On 4/21/2016 7:20 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> > > I... that... what... I'd forget that link and pretend you never went
> > > there. Its not helpful.
> >
> > I found it on the Internet, so it must be true -- and Pythonic at that!
>
> My advice is to not look at that site further. I can't count the number
> of things that are just... not useful or helpful.
>
> Directly translating the Gang of Four Design Pattern book to Python
> doesn't generally result in useful ideas, except in certain abstractions
> like the visitor pattern when you're designing big systems.
>

Frankly, for someone coming from Java, the best advice is to not write any
classes until you must. Of course classes in Python are very useful. It's
just that your Java habits are unnecessary and often counter-productive.

Just make some globals and some functions. Heck, even write procedurally
for a while. Free yourself from the Kingdom of Nouns.
http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2006/03/execution-in-kingdom-of-nouns.html

>


From p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt  Fri Apr 22 16:48:19 2016
From: p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 21:48:19 +0100
Subject: A pickle problem!
References: <nfbhh6$dbd$1@gioia.aioe.org> <nfc04n$u2o$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <CALwzidkTeXOMdAkuQ3UdcJhWNUQjzjzp4eZqmSOXtydMurka6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.18.1461342496.2861.python-list@python.org>
 <nfe13p$9p2$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 <CALwzidkiqMv+wYhEAL26a6TzyUveJA9TaTEyf8Aeaqfrdr54PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.5.1461357262.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nfe2mf$c5t$2@gioia.aioe.org>

?s 21:33 de 22-04-2016, Ian Kelly escreveu:
> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 2:21 PM, Paulo da Silva
> <p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt> wrote:
...
> 
> If they start with two underscores then you could use the name
> mangling to find them. If the class name is MyClass then look for any
> keys in the instance dict that start with '_MyClass__'. Otherwise no,
> you'd have to list them explicitly.
> 
OK, thanks.



From wrh8609 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 17:41:47 2016
From: wrh8609 at gmail.com (wrh8609 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 14:41:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to setup for localhost:8000
In-Reply-To: <60e461a5-95ff-49c0-9beb-7bc595c057e1@googlegroups.com>
References: <5ea1e31b-09ba-4b6a-be8b-58886c5c5f81@googlegroups.com>
 <CA+y5TLbED=JjcPG4-qfn=7tH=Y=6PQa+MMpvh_8uNT2srh7dBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.112.1460658199.15650.python-list@python.org>
 <2e597a56-00ab-4370-b337-667f34eac56a@googlegroups.com>
 <a5cbb46c-8d7d-482f-a608-57ba48e2df40@googlegroups.com>
 <67abca1d-8ac5-4a9a-825d-3aa76d9ccf3f@googlegroups.com>
 <60e461a5-95ff-49c0-9beb-7bc595c057e1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <63f6da92-898b-4305-84ff-77cbdfa4d876@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 17, 2016 at 1:11:39 PM UTC-4, Pierre Quentel wrote:
> > > 127.0.0.1 - - [15/Apr/2016 20:57:32] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 -
> >  Hi Pierre,
> > 
> > When I type http://localhost:8000, I did not see anything in the console after the line "Serving HTTP on 0.0.0.0 port 8000 ... I believe the way I ran was not correct as shown below:
> > > python -m http.server 
> > Serving HTTP on 0.0.0.0 port 8000 ...
> > 
> > Also if I use internet Explorer, it shows HTTP 404 errors.
> > Do you think the way I am doing of the localhost:8000 setting was not correct?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Wen-Ruey
> 
> If you're not seeing anything there, it is sure that the Python server doesn't serve requests on port 8000. But if you're seeing a blank screen or a 404 error instead of a message saying that a connection couldn't be set up, it is likely that another HTTP server is running on your machine on port 8000.
> 
> Could you try to start the server on another port, eg "python -m http.server 8085" and see what happens in the browser with "http://127.0.0.1:8085" ?

I followed your instruction but the page shows:
The 127.0.0.1 page isn't working

127.0.0.1 didn't send any data.
ERR_EMPTY_RESPONSE

and a lot of messages show on the command window..



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Apr 23 04:13:58 2016
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 01:13:58 -0700
Subject: Remove directory tree without following symlinks
References: <571a3ba2$0$1597$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <877ffon3nd.fsf@nightsong.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> writes:
> I want to remove a directory, including all files and subdirectories under
> it, but without following symlinks. I want the symlinks to be deleted, not
> the files pointed to by those symlinks.

rm -r shouldn't follow symlinks like you mention.


From sjeik_appie at hotmail.com  Sat Apr 23 05:34:12 2016
From: sjeik_appie at hotmail.com (Albert-Jan Roskam)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 09:34:12 +0000
Subject: Remove directory tree without following symlinks
In-Reply-To: <CACL+1aueH_scSTYW1Q6pGsZ92+8OWHB6tks3SqAAaU-wb6Ac4Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <571a3ba2$0$1597$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>,
 <1461337766.365000.586700849.0DDBDB0B@webmail.messagingengine.com>,
 <mailman.16.1461337768.2861.python-list@python.org>,
 <571a5be6$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>,
 <DUB123-W22A605538041FB2749C64B836F0@phx.gbl>,
 <CACL+1aueH_scSTYW1Q6pGsZ92+8OWHB6tks3SqAAaU-wb6Ac4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DUB123-W362E7C64F347B92A74E34B83600@phx.gbl>



> From: eryksun at gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 13:28:01 -0500
> Subject: Re: Remove directory tree without following symlinks
> To: python-list at python.org
> 
> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:39 PM, Albert-Jan Roskam
> <sjeik_appie at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > FYI, Just today I found out that shutil.rmtree raises a WindowsError if the dir is read-
> > only (or its contents). Using 'ignore_errors', won't help. Sure, no error is raised, but the
> > dir is not deleted either! A 'force' option would be a nice improvement.
> 
> Use the onerror handler to call os.chmod(path, stat.S_IWRITE). For
> example, see pip's rmtree_errorhandler:
> 
> https://github.com/pypa/pip/blob/8.1.1/pip/utils/__init__.py#L105

Thanks, that looks useful indeed. I thought about os.chmod, but with os.walk. That seemed expensive. So I used subprocess.call('rmdir "%s" /s /q' % dirname). That's Windows only, of course, but aside of that, is using subprocess less preferable?Fun fact: I used it to remove .svn dirs, just like what is mentioned in the pip comments :-)

 		 	   		  

From steve at pearwood.info  Sat Apr 23 06:24:51 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 20:24:51 +1000
Subject: Remove directory tree without following symlinks
References: <571a3ba2$0$1597$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <877ffon3nd.fsf@nightsong.com>
Message-ID: <571b4d75$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 23 Apr 2016 06:13 pm, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> writes:
>> I want to remove a directory, including all files and subdirectories
>> under it, but without following symlinks. I want the symlinks to be
>> deleted, not the files pointed to by those symlinks.
> 
> rm -r shouldn't follow symlinks like you mention.


"rm -r" gives me a NameError when I run it in my Python script :-)

But seriously, where is that documented? I've read the man page for rm, and
it doesn't say anything about treatment of symlinks, nor is there an option
to follow/not follow symlinks. So I never trust rm -r unless I know what
I'm deleting.



-- 
Steven



From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Sat Apr 23 07:37:35 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 23:37:35 +1200
Subject: Remove directory tree without following symlinks
In-Reply-To: <571b4d75$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <571a3ba2$0$1597$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <877ffon3nd.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <571b4d75$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <do1541Fc56tU1@mid.individual.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> But seriously, where is that documented? I've read the man page for rm, and
> it doesn't say anything about treatment of symlinks

The Linux man page seems to be a bit deficient on this.
The BSD version contains this sentence:

      The rm utility removes symbolic links, not the files referenced by the
      links.

-- 
Greg


From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Sat Apr 23 12:29:06 2016
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Nobody)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 17:29:06 +0100
Subject: Remove directory tree without following symlinks
References: <571a3ba2$0$1597$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2016.04.23.16.29.05.118000@nowhere.invalid>

On Sat, 23 Apr 2016 00:56:33 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> I want to remove a directory, including all files and subdirectories under
> it, but without following symlinks. I want the symlinks to be deleted, not
> the files pointed to by those symlinks.

Note that this is non-trivial to do securely, i.e. where an adversary has
write permission on any of the directories involved. Due to the potential
for race conditions between checking whether a name refers to a directory
and recursing into it, the process can be tricked into deleting any
directory tree for which it has the appropriate permissions.

The solution requires:

1. That you always chdir() into each directory and remove entries using
their plain filename, rather than trying to remove entries from a
higher-level directory using a relative path.

2. When chdir()ing into each subdirectory, you need to do e.g.:

	st1 = os.stat(".")
	os.chdir(subdir)
	st2 = os.stat("..")
	if st1.st_dev != st2.st_dev or st1.st_ino != st2.st_ino:
	    raise SomeKindOfException()

If the test fails, it means that the directory you just chdir()d into
isn't actually a subdirectory of the one you just left, e.g. because the
directory entry was replaced between checking it and chdir()ing into it.

On Linux, an alternative is to use fchdir() rather than chdir(), which
changes to a directory specified by an open file descriptor for that
directory rather than by name. Provided that the directory was open()ed
without any race condition (e.g. using O_NOFOLLOW), subsequent fstat() and
fchdir() calls are guaranteed to use the same directory regardless of any
filesystem changes.



From eryksun at gmail.com  Sat Apr 23 16:22:35 2016
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 15:22:35 -0500
Subject: Remove directory tree without following symlinks
In-Reply-To: <DUB123-W362E7C64F347B92A74E34B83600@phx.gbl>
References: <571a3ba2$0$1597$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1461337766.365000.586700849.0DDBDB0B@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.16.1461337768.2861.python-list@python.org>
 <571a5be6$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <DUB123-W22A605538041FB2749C64B836F0@phx.gbl>
 <CACL+1aueH_scSTYW1Q6pGsZ92+8OWHB6tks3SqAAaU-wb6Ac4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <DUB123-W362E7C64F347B92A74E34B83600@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CACL+1avhu9YcM5qbFaAdhq9ZUoizP5Dc8p99LMrCcREmcxBNWw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 4:34 AM, Albert-Jan Roskam
<sjeik_appie at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: eryksun at gmail.com
>> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 13:28:01 -0500
>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:39 PM, Albert-Jan Roskam
>> <sjeik_appie at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > FYI, Just today I found out that shutil.rmtree raises a WindowsError if
>> > the dir is read-only (or its contents). Using 'ignore_errors', won't help.
>> > Sure, no error is raised, but the dir is not deleted either! A 'force' option
>> > would be a nice improvement.
>>
>> Use the onerror handler to call os.chmod(path, stat.S_IWRITE). For
>> example, see pip's rmtree_errorhandler:
>>
>> https://github.com/pypa/pip/blob/8.1.1/pip/utils/__init__.py#L105
>
> Thanks, that looks useful indeed. I thought about os.chmod, but with
> os.walk. That seemed expensive. So I used subprocess.call('rmdir "%s" /s /q'
> % dirname). That's Windows only, of course, but aside of that, is using
> subprocess less preferable?

I assume you used shell=True in the above call, and not an external
rmdir.exe. There are security concerns with using the shell if you're
not in complete control of the command line.

As to performance, cmd's rmdir wins without question, not only because
it's implemented in C, but also because it uses the stat data from the
WIN32_FIND_DATA returned by FindFirstFile/FindNextFile to check for
FILE_ATTRIBUTE_DIRECTORY and FILE_ATTRIBUTE_READONLY.

On the other hand, Python wins when it comes to working with deeply
nested directories. Paths in cmd are limited to MAX_PATH characters.
rmdir uses DOS 8.3 short names (i.e. cAlternateFileName in
WIN32_FIND_DATA), but that could still exceed MAX_PATH for a deeply
nested tree, or the volume may not even have 8.3 DOS filenames.
shutil.rmtree allows you to work around the DOS limit by prefixing the
path with "\\?\". For example:

    >>> subprocess.call(r'rmdir /q/s Z:\Temp\long', shell=True)
    The path Z:\Temp\long\aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    aaaaa is too long.
    0

    >>> shutil.rmtree(r'\\?\Z:\Temp\long')
    >>> os.path.exists(r'Z:\Temp\long')
    False

Using "\\?\" requires a path that's fully qualified, normalized
(backslash only), and unicode (i.e. decode a Python 2 str).


From random832 at fastmail.com  Sat Apr 23 17:04:29 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 17:04:29 -0400
Subject: Remove directory tree without following symlinks
In-Reply-To: <571b4d75$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <571a3ba2$0$1597$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <877ffon3nd.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <571b4d75$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1461445469.3526344.587631697.21F2B303@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016, at 06:24, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> "rm -r" gives me a NameError when I run it in my Python script :-)
> 
> But seriously, where is that documented? I've read the man page for
> rm, and it doesn't say anything about treatment of symlinks, nor is
> there an option to follow/not follow symlinks. So I never trust rm -r
> unless I know what I'm deleting.

The Unix Standard says "For each entry contained in file, other than dot
or dot-dot, the four steps listed here (1 to 4) shall be taken with the
entry as if it were a file operand. The rm utility shall not traverse
directories by following symbolic links into other parts of the
hierarchy, but shall remove the links themselves." and "The rm utility
removes symbolic links themselves, not the files they refer to, as a
consequence of the dependence on the unlink() functionality, per the
DESCRIPTION. When removing hierarchies with -r or -R, the prohibition on
following symbolic links has to be made explicit."

OSX (and I assume other BSDs) says "The rm utility removes symbolic
links, not the files referenced by the links."

I don't know why GNU rm's documentation doesn't say anything about its
treatment of symlinks - maybe it never occurred to anyone at GNU that
someone might think it would do anything else.

(I'd be less inclined to trust windows' treatment of symlinks,
junctions, and other reparse points without doing some experiments)


From random832 at fastmail.com  Sat Apr 23 17:07:14 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 17:07:14 -0400
Subject: Remove directory tree without following symlinks
In-Reply-To: <pan.2016.04.23.16.29.05.118000@nowhere.invalid>
References: <571a3ba2$0$1597$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <pan.2016.04.23.16.29.05.118000@nowhere.invalid>
Message-ID: <1461445634.3526932.587637385.4FF8AC49@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016, at 12:29, Nobody wrote:
> On Linux, an alternative is to use fchdir() rather than chdir(), which
> changes to a directory specified by an open file descriptor 

Of course, then there's also the risk of running out of open file
descriptors. High-quality implementations of rm will fork to deal with
this.


From m at funkyhat.org  Sat Apr 23 17:33:36 2016
From: m at funkyhat.org (Matt Wheeler)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 22:33:36 +0100
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <5719964E.2050400@icloud.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <57198827.1020608@stoneleaf.us> <5719964E.2050400@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAG93HwHmQUABxKwDdWEbdTJ0gDQVcUW52uqjGLC6j8b53MPh4g@mail.gmail.com>

On 22 April 2016 at 04:11, Christopher Reimer
<christopher_reimer at icloud.com> wrote:
> On 4/21/2016 7:10 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
>>> I do plan to incorporate a sanity test in each Piece class to validate
>>> the initial position value. Pawns have 16 specific positions. Bishop,
>>> Knight and Rook each have four specific positions. King and Queen each
>>> have two specific positions. An invalid value will raise an exception.
>>
>> This will make it so you cannot use your PieceFactory for custom setups.
>
> The sanity check won't be in the PieceFactory, but in the Piece class as an
> interface and each Piece subclass will implement the correct positions for
> comparison.

This is still backwards to me. It prevents your classes from being
suitable for restoring a stored game state, not just custom starting
positions (which I think is what Ethan means by custom setups).

If you need to put sanity checking in your initialisation at all it
should be at some higher level, probably in a method named something
like `start_chess_game`. But really I'd suggest just writing tests for
that method to make sure it's doing the right thing.

On the other hand (and I'm sure you've already thought of this) it
probably does make sense to put piece move validation in to each of
the piece classes: you could even have some fun with it...

def move_straight(old, new):
    if old[0] == new[0] or old[1] == new[1]:
        return True

def move_diag(old, new):
    diff_x = abs(old[0] - new[0])
    diff_y = abs(old[1] - new[1])
    if diff_x == diff_y:
        return True

class Piece:
   ...
    def move(self, new):
        if self.validate_move(new):
            # do the move
            ...
        else: raise IllegalMove('or something')

class Queen(Piece):
    def validate_move(self, new):
        return any((test(self.position, new) for test in
(move_straight, move_diag)))


Ok I'll stop before I get too carried away... This is completely
untested so bugs will abound I'm sure :)

-- 
Matt Wheeler
http://funkyh.at


From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Sat Apr 23 21:00:24 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 18:00:24 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <5719ACBB.8020905@stoneleaf.us>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com> <5719ACBB.8020905@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <571C1AA8.8000202@icloud.com>

On 4/21/2016 9:46 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> Oh! and Enum!!!  ;)

OMG! I totally forgot about Enum. Oh, look. Python supports Enum. Now I 
don't have to roll my own!

Hmm... What do we use Enum for? :)

Thank you,

Chris R.



From michael.selik at gmail.com  Sat Apr 23 21:21:24 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 01:21:24 +0000
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <571C1AA8.8000202@icloud.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com> <5719ACBB.8020905@stoneleaf.us>
 <571C1AA8.8000202@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkPJrbw85XG2gC=miCi8UJWM4KU5snskGSwvZdkXs8BG5w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 9:01 PM Christopher Reimer <
christopher_reimer at icloud.com> wrote:

> On 4/21/2016 9:46 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> > Oh! and Enum!!!  ;)
>
> OMG! I totally forgot about Enum. Oh, look. Python supports Enum. Now I
> don't have to roll my own!
>
> Hmm... What do we use Enum for? :)
>

You can use Enum in certain circumstances to replace int or str constants.
It can help avoid mistyping mistakes and might help your IDE give
auto-complete suggestions. I haven't found a good use for them myself, but
I'd been mostly stuck in Python 2 until recently.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sat Apr 23 21:29:42 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 19:29:42 -0600
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <571C1AA8.8000202@icloud.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com> <5719ACBB.8020905@stoneleaf.us>
 <571C1AA8.8000202@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=WAEBjDJyLqFu8ujO=v3Yv93O2SB6GmPQneMyk+4kA=A@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 7:00 PM, Christopher Reimer
<christopher_reimer at icloud.com> wrote:
> On 4/21/2016 9:46 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
>>
>> Oh! and Enum!!!  ;)
>
>
> OMG! I totally forgot about Enum. Oh, look. Python supports Enum. Now I
> don't have to roll my own!
>
> Hmm... What do we use Enum for? :)

Python enums are great. Sadly, they're still not quite as awesome as Java enums.


From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Sat Apr 23 21:30:11 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 18:30:11 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <1461302724.477236.586265777.181ACCA0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com>
 <1461302724.477236.586265777.181ACCA0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <571C21A3.5090507@icloud.com>

On 4/21/2016 10:25 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
>
> Why not, 'color in ("black", "white")'?

Checkers seems popular around here. What if I want to change "white" to 
"red," as red and black is a common color scheme for checkers. Do I 
change a single constant variable or replace all the occurrences in the 
files?

Some of these constants are shortcuts. Instead of writing slice(0, 16) 
or slice(48, 64), and getting the two confused, I write 
const['board_bottom'] or const['board_top'], respectively, when I want 
to pull the correct set of positions from coordinates list.

> That said, if you're wanting to share constants across different parts
> of your code, use a module.

I did that at first, made it into a dictionary class and added 
ConfigParser to the mix. I had a lot of fun putting that one together. 
However, as I refactor my code further as I learn new things, it will 
probably get changed or removed. Being a research project, I'm willing 
to dive into every rabbit hole that I come across to learn Python properly.

Thank you,

Chris R.


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Sat Apr 23 21:38:29 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 01:38:29 +0000
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <571C21A3.5090507@icloud.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com>
 <1461302724.477236.586265777.181ACCA0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <571C21A3.5090507@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkPZZkKiMeS=2bke-qooGDC0_cegE2TDhiubPN4-nNmcZg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 9:31 PM Christopher Reimer <
christopher_reimer at icloud.com> wrote:

> On 4/21/2016 10:25 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> >
> > Why not, 'color in ("black", "white")'?
>
> Checkers seems popular around here. What if I want to change "white" to
> "red," as red and black is a common color scheme for checkers. Do I
> change a single constant variable or replace all the occurrences in the
> files?
>

Why so many files? Python can easily support thousands of lines in a file.
If it's just one file any text editor can do a quick find-replace.

That said, it's easy to make some global ``red = 'red'``.

Some of these constants are shortcuts. Instead of writing slice(0, 16)
> or slice(48, 64), and getting the two confused, I write
> const['board_bottom'] or const['board_top'], respectively, when I want
> to pull the correct set of positions from coordinates list.
>

Why hide these things in a dict ``const`` instead of just making them
top-level variables in the module themselves?  ``board_top = slice(48,
64)``

> That said, if you're wanting to share constants across different parts
> > of your code, use a module.
>

Or just use one file to keep things easier. But, yes, I agree a module of
constants is appropriate for bigger projects.


From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Sat Apr 23 21:45:37 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 18:45:37 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <CAGgTfkNz5aeS5Jo+3yc+nWjUKnfhe=0zBVNeNHUMHD6Uj9VyEA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com>
 <1461302724.477236.586265777.181ACCA0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAGgTfkNz5aeS5Jo+3yc+nWjUKnfhe=0zBVNeNHUMHD6Uj9VyEA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571C2541.9050309@icloud.com>

On 4/22/2016 1:40 PM, Michael Selik wrote:
> Frankly, for someone coming from Java, the best advice is to not write any
> classes until you must. Of course classes in Python are very useful. It's
> just that your Java habits are unnecessary and often counter-productive.

I disagree. I wrote procedural scripts and translated old BASIC games 
into Python for two years. One day I came across a Python book that 
described the principles of subclassing from a base class for chess 
pieces, but there was no code to demonstrate the process. I had no 
problem creating the Python classes. That's how my research project got 
started to build a chess engine. If you ever check the academic 
literature for chess programming, this research project could turn into 
a lifelong endeavor.

I had to confront all the bad habits I brought over Java and change my 
code to be more Pythonic. This is where I started having fun, learning 
the tricks and collapsing multi-line code into a single line code. I've 
learned more about Python in the few weeks than I had in two years of 
writing procedural scripts and translating BASIC goto hell.

Thank you,

Chris R.


From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Sat Apr 23 22:03:03 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 19:03:03 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <CAG93HwHmQUABxKwDdWEbdTJ0gDQVcUW52uqjGLC6j8b53MPh4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <57198827.1020608@stoneleaf.us> <5719964E.2050400@icloud.com>
 <CAG93HwHmQUABxKwDdWEbdTJ0gDQVcUW52uqjGLC6j8b53MPh4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571C2957.7060508@icloud.com>

On 4/23/2016 2:33 PM, Matt Wheeler wrote:
> This is still backwards to me. It prevents your classes from being
> suitable for restoring a stored game state, not just custom starting
> positions (which I think is what Ethan means by custom setups).

I haven't thought that far about saving the game state. I'm under the 
impression that pickle (or something else) would save and load the 
instantiated object of each piece. If that's not the case, I'll change 
the code then.

The sanity check does have an exemption for pawn promotion, where a pawn 
reaching the other side of the board can be promoted to another piece 
(typically a queen). I played Sargon II chess on the Commodore 64 for 
five years as a teenager. The worst game I ever won was when the 
computer had nine queens on the board. I thought the computer was 
cheating outrageously but a chess rule book confirmed that promotion was 
a legit move.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promotion_(chess)

If I need to add an exemption to custom plays, I'll add it then. Right 
now I'm cleaning up the existing code from all the bad Java habits.

Thank you,

Chris R.


From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Sat Apr 23 22:09:24 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 19:09:24 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid=WAEBjDJyLqFu8ujO=v3Yv93O2SB6GmPQneMyk+4kA=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com> <5719ACBB.8020905@stoneleaf.us>
 <571C1AA8.8000202@icloud.com>
 <CALwzid=WAEBjDJyLqFu8ujO=v3Yv93O2SB6GmPQneMyk+4kA=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571C2AD4.2060003@icloud.com>

On 4/23/2016 6:29 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
> Python enums are great. Sadly, they're still not quite as awesome as 
> Java enums.

I remember enums more from C than Java. Although I haven't used them 
much in either language. I'm planning to immerse myself back into C via 
Cython. Depending on far I get into this chess program, I might need a 
speed boost here and there.

Thank you,

Chris R.



From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Sat Apr 23 22:32:12 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 19:32:12 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <CAGgTfkPZZkKiMeS=2bke-qooGDC0_cegE2TDhiubPN4-nNmcZg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com>
 <1461302724.477236.586265777.181ACCA0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <571C21A3.5090507@icloud.com>
 <CAGgTfkPZZkKiMeS=2bke-qooGDC0_cegE2TDhiubPN4-nNmcZg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571C302C.2010800@icloud.com>

On 4/23/2016 6:38 PM, Michael Selik wrote:

> Why so many files? Python can easily support thousands of lines in a
> file. If it's just one file any text editor can do a quick find-replace.

That goes back to the Java convention of having one class per file. It 
took a while to convince myself that mixing classes and functions in a 
single file was okay. Once I finished cleaning up the code for this 
round, I'll merge four files into one file (~500 lines) and have four 
files (main.py, display.py, engine.py and utility.py).

> Or just use one file to keep things easier. But, yes, I agree a module
> of constants is appropriate for bigger projects.

That's the other problem I'm running into. Building a chess engine is a 
big project. This is probably bigger than the Java XML parser I built 
from scratch for a college project. I can't seem to find any information 
on how to build bigger programs. Community college taught me how to 
program, but it didn't teach me how to go beyond class inheritance.

Thank you,

Chris R.


From torriem at gmail.com  Sat Apr 23 22:34:48 2016
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 20:34:48 -0600
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <571C2541.9050309@icloud.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com>
 <1461302724.477236.586265777.181ACCA0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAGgTfkNz5aeS5Jo+3yc+nWjUKnfhe=0zBVNeNHUMHD6Uj9VyEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <571C2541.9050309@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <571C30C8.5000208@gmail.com>

On 04/23/2016 07:45 PM, Christopher Reimer wrote:
> I had to confront all the bad habits I brought over Java and change my 
> code to be more Pythonic. This is where I started having fun, learning 
> the tricks and collapsing multi-line code into a single line code. I've 
> learned more about Python in the few weeks than I had in two years of 
> writing procedural scripts and translating BASIC goto hell.

Procedural programming does not necessarily mean BASIC-style goto hell.
Not sure why you would think that.  In fact that's not really what
procedural programming is about.  However, Mr. Selik wasn't advocating
procedural programming at all.  Not defining a class does not make your
code precdural.  But using classes does not mean your code is *not*
procedural. If you are using an event-driven framework then I will say,
yes your code is not procedural.

There are many aspects to Pythonic programming, not just OOP.  For
example using modules to store shared state for your program components
is very pythonic, rather than using classes.  A module is kind of like a
singleton instance, and still is object-oriented by the way (the module
is an object).  Sadly Java really messed up people by using classes as a
namespace mechanism.  That was quite a mistake.  Really messed with
people's expectations of OOP.

I would say that pythonic programming involves defining classes when
it's appropriate, and not doing so when something else will work just as
well and be simpler.



From schilke.60 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 23 23:05:45 2016
From: schilke.60 at gmail.com (Derek Klinge)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 03:05:45 +0000
Subject: Optimizing Memory Allocation in a Simple, but Long Function
Message-ID: <CAGuRns8KhOFL-a1_a=0hMP=NbktoJw78ih3j4uUSbvkF8bf3pw@mail.gmail.com>

I have been writing a python script to explore Euler's Method of
approximating Euler's Number. I was hoping there might be a way to make
this process work faster, as for sufficiently large eulerSteps, the process
below becomes quite slow and sometimes memory intensive. I'm hoping someone
can give me some insight as to how to optimize these algorithms, or ways I
might decrease memory usage. I have been thinking about finding a way
around importing the math module, as it seems a bit unneeded except as an
easy reference.

## Write a method to approximate Euler's Number using Euler's Method
import math

class EulersNumber():
def __init__(self,n):
self.eulerSteps = n
self.e = self.EulersMethod(self.eulerSteps)

def linearApproximation(self,x,h,d): # f(x+h)=f(x)+h*f'(x)
return x + h * d

def EulersMethod(self, numberOfSteps): # Repeat linear approximation over
an even range
e = 1 # e**0 = 1
for step in range(numberOfSteps):
e = self.linearApproximation(e,1.0/numberOfSteps,e) # if f(x)= e**x,
f'(x)=f(x)
return e


def EulerStepWithGuess(accuracy,guessForN):
n = guessForN
e = EulersNumber(n)
while abs(e.e -math.e) > abs(accuracy):
n +=1
e = EulersNumber(n)
print('n={} \te= {} \tdelta(e)={}'.format(n,e.e,abs(e.e-math.e)))
return e

def EulersNumberToAccuracy(PowerOfTen):
x = 1
theGuess = 1
thisE = EulersNumber(1)
while x <= abs(PowerOfTen):
thisE = EulerStepWithGuess(10**(-1*x),theGuess)
theGuess = thisE.eulerSteps * 10
x += 1
return thisE

Thanks,
Derek


From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Sat Apr 23 23:19:14 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 20:19:14 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <571C30C8.5000208@gmail.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com>
 <1461302724.477236.586265777.181ACCA0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAGgTfkNz5aeS5Jo+3yc+nWjUKnfhe=0zBVNeNHUMHD6Uj9VyEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <571C2541.9050309@icloud.com> <571C30C8.5000208@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571C3B32.4040306@icloud.com>

On 4/23/2016 7:34 PM, Michael Torrie wrote
> Procedural programming does not necessarily mean BASIC-style goto hell.
> Not sure why you would think that.  In fact that's not really what
> procedural programming is about.

I mentioned several messages back that I spent two years writing 
procedural scripts AND translating BASIC games into Python, which can be 
goto hell if the program has a drop-down structure that makes sense only 
from following the entry point of the goto statement (see link for example).

http://www.atariarchives.org/basicgames/showpage.php?page=9

I try to follow the BASIC program structure as closely as possible, get 
it working in Python, and use pylint to make my code PEP8-compliant. 
Pylint frequently complains about exceeding a dozen if branches in the 
main function. I then create helper functions to reduce the if branches. 
Sometimes that makes the Python version either shorter or longer than 
the original BASIC program.

Thank you,

Chris R.


From torriem at gmail.com  Sat Apr 23 23:19:56 2016
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 21:19:56 -0600
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <571C302C.2010800@icloud.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com>
 <1461302724.477236.586265777.181ACCA0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <571C21A3.5090507@icloud.com>
 <CAGgTfkPZZkKiMeS=2bke-qooGDC0_cegE2TDhiubPN4-nNmcZg@mail.gmail.com>
 <571C302C.2010800@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <571C3B5C.8030403@gmail.com>

On 04/23/2016 08:32 PM, Christopher Reimer wrote:
> That's the other problem I'm running into. Building a chess engine is a 
> big project. This is probably bigger than the Java XML parser I built 
> from scratch for a college project. I can't seem to find any information 
> on how to build bigger programs. Community college taught me how to 
> program, but it didn't teach me how to go beyond class inheritance.

The reason you weren't taught beyond class inheritance is because Java
implements organization only through a class hierarchy. Whole
generations of Java programmers think that program organization is
through classes (a static main method means your code is procedural, by
the way).

Learn about Python namespaces and how to use them.  I guess it just
comes with experience, a lot of trial and a lot of error.  And checking
on how others are doing it.  Take a look at examples from the Python
standard library, as well as other projects.  For example, Beautiful
Soup.  Not that you have to understand their code, but take a look at
how they organize things.

In my mind namespaces matter more than files as an organizational tool.
 Because namespaces are my primary organization, I will put multiple
class definitions in the same file (if they belong in the same
namespace), so they can be imported from the same module. If the classes
and functions get more complicated, I can separate them into their own
submodules and wrap them all up in one Python package (like a module but
more flexible and has submodules).

The nice thing about building with Python is you can start with one
thing, like a module, and convert it to a package later on as needed.




From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Sat Apr 23 23:41:38 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 20:41:38 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <571C3B5C.8030403@gmail.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com>
 <1461302724.477236.586265777.181ACCA0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <571C21A3.5090507@icloud.com>
 <CAGgTfkPZZkKiMeS=2bke-qooGDC0_cegE2TDhiubPN4-nNmcZg@mail.gmail.com>
 <571C302C.2010800@icloud.com> <571C3B5C.8030403@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571C4072.1000005@icloud.com>

On 4/23/2016 8:19 PM, Michael Torrie wrote:
> The reason you weren't taught beyond class inheritance is because Java
> implements organization only through a class hierarchy. Whole
> generations of Java programmers think that program organization is
> through classes (a static main method means your code is procedural, by
> the way).
I never wanted to learn Java in the first place. My community college 
couldn't afford to renew the Microsoft site license, which local 
employers required to learn C/C++ in MS Visual Studio, and all flavors 
of Java got taught for the programming classes instead. I wanted to 
learn C/C++. I even wanted to learn assembly language, but I was the 
only student who showed up for the class and it got cancelled.

Of course, it probably doesn't help that I got a job in help desk 
support after I graduated with A.S. degree in Java and never programmed 
professionally. Thinking like a programmer helped me resolved many IT 
problems over the last 12 years. My current job in computer security 
requires tinkering with PowerShell scripts as Python is strictly 
prohibited in this Windows shop. I have made Python my main programming 
language at home.

Thank you,

Chris R.


From torriem at gmail.com  Sat Apr 23 23:58:09 2016
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 21:58:09 -0600
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <571C4072.1000005@icloud.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com>
 <1461302724.477236.586265777.181ACCA0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <571C21A3.5090507@icloud.com>
 <CAGgTfkPZZkKiMeS=2bke-qooGDC0_cegE2TDhiubPN4-nNmcZg@mail.gmail.com>
 <571C302C.2010800@icloud.com> <571C3B5C.8030403@gmail.com>
 <571C4072.1000005@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <571C4451.2060905@gmail.com>

On 04/23/2016 09:41 PM, Christopher Reimer wrote:
> I never wanted to learn Java in the first place. My community college 
> couldn't afford to renew the Microsoft site license, which local 
> employers required to learn C/C++ in MS Visual Studio, and all flavors 
> of Java got taught for the programming classes instead. I wanted to 
> learn C/C++. I even wanted to learn assembly language, but I was the 
> only student who showed up for the class and it got cancelled.
> 
> Of course, it probably doesn't help that I got a job in help desk 
> support after I graduated with A.S. degree in Java and never programmed 
> professionally. Thinking like a programmer helped me resolved many IT 
> problems over the last 12 years. My current job in computer security 
> requires tinkering with PowerShell scripts as Python is strictly 
> prohibited in this Windows shop. I have made Python my main programming 
> language at home.

I don't mean to imply that I'm criticizing you for your Java experience!
 I am critical of Java, though.

I'm very glad you've discovered Python and I hope you'll continue to
have fun with it.  I hope you'll take the advice offered by the others
on this thread in stride and hopefully we'll all learn and benefit.

I completely agree with you that learning to think like a programmer is
so helpful in solving all kinds of problems, especially in IT!


From steve at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 24 01:38:25 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 15:38:25 +1000
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <57198827.1020608@stoneleaf.us> <5719964E.2050400@icloud.com>
 <CAG93HwHmQUABxKwDdWEbdTJ0gDQVcUW52uqjGLC6j8b53MPh4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <571C2957.7060508@icloud.com>
 <mailman.21.1461463390.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <571c5bd3$0$1602$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 12:03 pm, Christopher Reimer wrote:

> On 4/23/2016 2:33 PM, Matt Wheeler wrote:
>> This is still backwards to me. It prevents your classes from being
>> suitable for restoring a stored game state, not just custom starting
>> positions (which I think is what Ethan means by custom setups).
> 
> I haven't thought that far about saving the game state. I'm under the
> impression that pickle (or something else) would save and load the
> instantiated object of each piece. If that's not the case, I'll change
> the code then.

Pickle will do what you are thinking of, but pickle is not secure and
involves executing arbitrary code. If you cannot trust the source of the
pickle, then you should not use it.



-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 24 01:49:36 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 15:49:36 +1000
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com>
 <1461302724.477236.586265777.181ACCA0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAGgTfkNz5aeS5Jo+3yc+nWjUKnfhe=0zBVNeNHUMHD6Uj9VyEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <571C2541.9050309@icloud.com> <571C30C8.5000208@gmail.com>
 <mailman.24.1461465315.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <571c5e72$0$1615$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 12:34 pm, Michael Torrie wrote:

> There are many aspects to Pythonic programming, not just OOP.  For
> example using modules to store shared state for your program components
> is very pythonic, rather than using classes.  A module is kind of like a
> singleton instance, and still is object-oriented by the way (the module
> is an object).

I find myself going backwards and forwards on whether or not that is a good
idea. I think it depends on whether you are writing a library or an
application.

If you're writing an application, then storing state in module-level
variables works fine. Your application is, effectively, a singleton, and if
you try to run it twice, you'll (probably) be running it in two distinct
processes, so that's okay.

(If you're not, if somehow you perform some sort of trickery where you have
a single Python interpreter running your script twice in the same process,
then it will break horribly. But if you can do that, you're living on the
edge already and can probably deal with it.)

But if you're writing a library, then using module state is a Bad Idea. Your
library may be used by more than one client in the same process, and they
will conflict over each other's library-level state. "Global variables
considered harmful."



-- 
Steven



From marko at pacujo.net  Sun Apr 24 01:56:24 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 08:56:24 +0300
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <57198827.1020608@stoneleaf.us> <5719964E.2050400@icloud.com>
 <CAG93HwHmQUABxKwDdWEbdTJ0gDQVcUW52uqjGLC6j8b53MPh4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <571C2957.7060508@icloud.com>
 <mailman.21.1461463390.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <571c5bd3$0$1602$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <8737qby2gn.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:

> On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 12:03 pm, Christopher Reimer wrote:
>
>> On 4/23/2016 2:33 PM, Matt Wheeler wrote:
>>> This is still backwards to me. It prevents your classes from being
>>> suitable for restoring a stored game state, not just custom starting
>>> positions (which I think is what Ethan means by custom setups).
>> 
>> I haven't thought that far about saving the game state. I'm under the
>> impression that pickle (or something else) would save and load the
>> instantiated object of each piece. If that's not the case, I'll change
>> the code then.
>
> Pickle will do what you are thinking of, but pickle is not secure and
> involves executing arbitrary code. If you cannot trust the source of
> the pickle, then you should not use it.

You shouldn't use your runtime objects as a storage format. Instead,
design the storage objects separately and translate between runtime and
storage objects as needed.

JSON objects or straight Python dicts are good candidates for overall
storage format. JSON would allow for easy interchange between different
programming languages if need be.


Marko


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 02:40:31 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 06:40:31 +0000
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <571c5e72$0$1615$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com>
 <1461302724.477236.586265777.181ACCA0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAGgTfkNz5aeS5Jo+3yc+nWjUKnfhe=0zBVNeNHUMHD6Uj9VyEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <571C2541.9050309@icloud.com> <571C30C8.5000208@gmail.com>
 <mailman.24.1461465315.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <571c5e72$0$1615$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkOXzfdASq7h4+0n3wokpmQmTREZ7Kzd_Qbog-hZ5HM7MA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 24, 2016, 1:51 AM Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 12:34 pm, Michael Torrie wrote:
>
> > There are many aspects to Pythonic programming, not just OOP.  For
> > example using modules to store shared state for your program components
> > is very pythonic, rather than using classes.  A module is kind of like a
> > singleton instance, and still is object-oriented by the way (the module
> > is an object).
>
> I find myself going backwards and forwards on whether or not that is a good
> idea. I think it depends on whether you are writing a library or an
> application.
>
> If you're writing an application, then storing state in module-level
> variables works fine. Your application is, effectively, a singleton, and if
> you try to run it twice, you'll (probably) be running it in two distinct
> processes, so that's okay.
>
> (If you're not, if somehow you perform some sort of trickery where you have
> a single Python interpreter running your script twice in the same process,
> then it will break horribly. But if you can do that, you're living on the
> edge already and can probably deal with it.)
>
> But if you're writing a library, then using module state is a Bad Idea.
> Your
> library may be used by more than one client in the same process, and they
> will conflict over each other's library-level state. "Global variables
> considered harmful."
>

I think we're giving mixed messages because we're conflating "constants"
and globals that are expected to change.

In our case here, I think two clients in the same process sharing state
might be a feature rather than a bug. Or at least it has the same behavior
as the current implementation.

>


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Sun Apr 24 03:20:58 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 00:20:58 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid=WAEBjDJyLqFu8ujO=v3Yv93O2SB6GmPQneMyk+4kA=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com> <5719ACBB.8020905@stoneleaf.us>
 <571C1AA8.8000202@icloud.com>
 <CALwzid=WAEBjDJyLqFu8ujO=v3Yv93O2SB6GmPQneMyk+4kA=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571C73DA.8020608@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/23/2016 06:29 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:

> Python enums are great. Sadly, they're still not quite as awesome as Java enums.

What fun things can Java enums do?

--
~Ethan~



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Sun Apr 24 03:22:58 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 00:22:58 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <CAGgTfkPJrbw85XG2gC=miCi8UJWM4KU5snskGSwvZdkXs8BG5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com> <5719ACBB.8020905@stoneleaf.us>
 <571C1AA8.8000202@icloud.com>
 <CAGgTfkPJrbw85XG2gC=miCi8UJWM4KU5snskGSwvZdkXs8BG5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571C7452.5060501@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/23/2016 06:21 PM, Michael Selik wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 9:01 PM Christopher Reimer wrote:

>> Hmm... What do we use Enum for? :)
>
> You can use Enum in certain circumstances to replace int or str constants.
> It can help avoid mistyping mistakes and might help your IDE give
> auto-complete suggestions. I haven't found a good use for them myself, but
> I'd been mostly stuck in Python 2 until recently.

enum34 is the backport, aenum is the turbo charged version.

   https://pypi.python.org/pypi/enum34
   https://pypi.python.org/pypi/aenum

--
~Ethan~


From fabien.maussion at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 06:20:33 2016
From: fabien.maussion at gmail.com (Fabien)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 12:20:33 +0200
Subject: A pickle problem!
References: <nfbhh6$dbd$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <nfi6lh$1r2q$1@gioia.aioe.org>

On 04/21/2016 11:43 PM, Paulo da Silva wrote:
> class C(pd.DataFrame):

Note also that subclassing pandas is not always encouraged:

http://pandas.pydata.org/pandas-docs/stable/internals.html#subclassing-pandas-data-structures

Cheers,

Fabien


From sjeik_appie at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 24 06:42:41 2016
From: sjeik_appie at hotmail.com (Albert-Jan Roskam)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:42:41 +0000
Subject: Remove directory tree without following symlinks
In-Reply-To: <CACL+1avhu9YcM5qbFaAdhq9ZUoizP5Dc8p99LMrCcREmcxBNWw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <571a3ba2$0$1597$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>,
 <1461337766.365000.586700849.0DDBDB0B@webmail.messagingengine.com>,
 <mailman.16.1461337768.2861.python-list@python.org>,
 <571a5be6$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>,
 <DUB123-W22A605538041FB2749C64B836F0@phx.gbl>,
 <CACL+1aueH_scSTYW1Q6pGsZ92+8OWHB6tks3SqAAaU-wb6Ac4Q@mail.gmail.com>,
 <DUB123-W362E7C64F347B92A74E34B83600@phx.gbl>,
 <CACL+1avhu9YcM5qbFaAdhq9ZUoizP5Dc8p99LMrCcREmcxBNWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DUB123-W25926A459EE112FA2741FA83610@phx.gbl>


> From: eryksun at gmail.com
> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 15:22:35 -0500
> Subject: Re: Remove directory tree without following symlinks
> To: python-list at python.org
> 
> On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 4:34 AM, Albert-Jan Roskam
>  wrote:
>>
>>> From: eryksun at gmail.com
>>> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 13:28:01 -0500
>>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:39 PM, Albert-Jan Roskam
>>>  wrote:
>>>> FYI, Just today I found out that shutil.rmtree raises a WindowsError if
>>>> the dir is read-only (or its contents). Using 'ignore_errors', won't help.
>>>> Sure, no error is raised, but the dir is not deleted either! A 'force' option
>>>> would be a nice improvement.
>>>
>>> Use the onerror handler to call os.chmod(path, stat.S_IWRITE). For
>>> example, see pip's rmtree_errorhandler:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/pypa/pip/blob/8.1.1/pip/utils/__init__.py#L105
>>
>> Thanks, that looks useful indeed. I thought about os.chmod, but with
>> os.walk. That seemed expensive. So I used subprocess.call('rmdir "%s" /s /q'
>> % dirname). That's Windows only, of course, but aside of that, is using
>> subprocess less preferable?
> 
> I assume you used shell=True in the above call, and not an external
> rmdir.exe. There are security concerns with using the shell if you're
> not in complete control of the command line.
> 
> As to performance, cmd's rmdir wins without question, not only because
> it's implemented in C, but also because it uses the stat data from the
> WIN32_FIND_DATA returned by FindFirstFile/FindNextFile to check for
> FILE_ATTRIBUTE_DIRECTORY and FILE_ATTRIBUTE_READONLY.
> 
> On the other hand, Python wins when it comes to working with deeply
> nested directories. Paths in cmd are limited to MAX_PATH characters.
> rmdir uses DOS 8.3 short names (i.e. cAlternateFileName in
> WIN32_FIND_DATA), but that could still exceed MAX_PATH for a deeply
> nested tree, or the volume may not even have 8.3 DOS filenames.
> shutil.rmtree allows you to work around the DOS limit by prefixing the
> path with "\\?\". For example:
> 
>    >>> subprocess.call(r'rmdir /q/s Z:\Temp\long', shell=True)
>     The path Z:\Temp\long\aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
>     aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
>     aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
>     aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
>     aaaaa is too long.
>     0
> 
>    >>> shutil.rmtree(r'\\?\Z:\Temp\long')
>    >>> os.path.exists(r'Z:\Temp\long')
>     False
> 
> Using "\\?\" requires a path that's fully qualified, normalized
> (backslash only), and unicode (i.e. decode a Python 2 str).

Aww, I kinda forgot about that already, but I came across this last year [1]. Apparently, 
shutil.rmtree(very_long_path) failed under Win 7, even with the "silly prefix". I believe very_long_path was a Python2-str.
It seems useful if shutil or os.path would automatically prefix paths with "\\?\". It is rarely really needed, though.
(in my case it was needed to copy a bunch of MS Outlook .msg files, which automatically get the subject line as the filename, and perhaps
the first sentence of the mail of the mail has no subject).

[1] https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2015-June/693156.html

 		 	   		  

From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Sun Apr 24 10:41:43 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 07:41:43 -0700
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <571C1AA8.8000202@icloud.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com> <5719ACBB.8020905@stoneleaf.us>
 <571C1AA8.8000202@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <571CDB27.7080909@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/23/2016 06:00 PM, Christopher Reimer wrote:

> Hmm... What do we use Enum for? :)

from enum import Enum

class Piece(Enum):
     king = 'one space, any direction'
     queen = 'many spaces, any direction'
     bishop = 'many spaces, diagonal'
     knight = 'two spaces cardinal, one space sideways, cannot be blocked'
     rook = 'many spaces, cardinal'
     pawn = 'first move: one or two spaces forward; subsequent moves: 
one space forward; attack: one space diagonal'

--> list(Piece)
[
     <Piece.king: 'one space, any direction'>,
     <Piece.queen: 'many spaces, any direction'>,
     <Piece.bishop: 'many spaces, diagonal'>,
     <Piece.knight: 'two spaces cardinal, one space sideways, cannot be 
blocked'>,
     <Piece.rook: 'many spaces, cardinal'>,
     <Piece.pawn: 'first move: one or two spaces forward; subsequent 
moves: one space forward; attack: one space diagonal'>,
     ]

--> p = Piece.bishop
--> p in Piece
True

--> p is Piece.rook
False

--> p is Piece.bishop
True

--
~Ethan~



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 11:20:24 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 09:20:24 -0600
Subject: Comparing Python enums to Java, was: How much sanity checking is
 required for function inputs?
Message-ID: <CALwzidnFfYPR6mEWGbzFWOiJ6=6hmg=+52k99-Rv1YE5o5RjvA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 1:20 AM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
> On 04/23/2016 06:29 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
>
>> Python enums are great. Sadly, they're still not quite as awesome as Java
>> enums.
>
>
> What fun things can Java enums do?

Everything that Python enums can do, plus:

* You can override methods of individual values, not just the class as
a whole. Good for implementing the strategy pattern, or for defining a
default method implementation that one or two values do differently.
In Python you can emulate the same thing by adding the method directly
to the instance dict of the enum value, so this isn't really all that
much of a difference.

* Java doesn't have the hokey notion of enum instances being distinct
from their "value". The individual enum members *are* the values.
Whereas in Python an enum member is an awkward class instance that
contains a value of some other type. Python tries to get away from the
C-like notion that enums are ints by making the enum members
non-comparable, but then gives us IntEnum as a way to work around it
if we really want to. Since Java enums don't depend on any other type
for their values, there's nothing inviting the user to treat enums as
ints in the first place.

* As a consequence of the above, Java doesn't conflate enum values
with their parameters. The Python enum docs give us this interesting
example of an enum that takes arguments from its declaration:

>>> class Planet(Enum):
...     MERCURY = (3.303e+23, 2.4397e6)
...     VENUS   = (4.869e+24, 6.0518e6)
...     EARTH   = (5.976e+24, 6.37814e6)
...     MARS    = (6.421e+23, 3.3972e6)
...     JUPITER = (1.9e+27,   7.1492e7)
...     SATURN  = (5.688e+26, 6.0268e7)
...     URANUS  = (8.686e+25, 2.5559e7)
...     NEPTUNE = (1.024e+26, 2.4746e7)
...     def __init__(self, mass, radius):
...         self.mass = mass       # in kilograms
...         self.radius = radius   # in meters
...     @property
...     def surface_gravity(self):
...         # universal gravitational constant  (m3 kg-1 s-2)
...         G = 6.67300E-11
...         return G * self.mass / (self.radius * self.radius)
...
>>> Planet.EARTH.value
(5.976e+24, 6378140.0)
>>> Planet.EARTH.surface_gravity
9.802652743337129

This is incredibly useful, but it has a flaw: the value of each member
of the enum is just the tuple of its arguments. Suppose we added a
value for COUNTER_EARTH describing a hypothetical planet with the same
mass and radius existing on the other side of the sun. [1] Then:

>>> Planet.EARTH is Planet.COUNTER_EARTH
True

Because they have the same "value", instead of creating a separate
member, COUNTER_EARTH gets defined as an alias for EARTH. To work
around this, one would have to add a third argument to the above to
pass in an additional value for the sole purpose of distinguishing (or
else adapt the AutoNumber recipe to work with this example). This
example is a bit contrived since it's generally not likely to come up
with floats, but it can easily arise (and in my experience frequently
does) when the arguments are of more discrete types. It's notable that
the Java enum docs feature this very same example but without this
weakness. [2]

* Speaking of AutoNumber, since Java enums don't have the
instance/value distinction, they effectively do this implicitly, only
without generating a bunch of ints that are entirely irrelevant to
your enum type. With Python enums you have to follow a somewhat arcane
recipe to avoid specifying values, which just generates some values
and then hides them away. And it also breaks the Enum alias feature:

>>> class Color(AutoNumber):
...     red = default = ()  # not an alias!
...     blue = ()
...
>>> Color.red is Color.default
False

Anyroad, I think that covers all my beefs with the way enums are
implemented in Python. Despite the above, they're a great feature, and
I use them and appreciate that we have them.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-Earth
[2] https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/java/javaOO/enum.html


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Sun Apr 24 12:04:59 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 09:04:59 -0700
Subject: Comparing Python enums to Java, was: How much sanity checking
 is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnFfYPR6mEWGbzFWOiJ6=6hmg=+52k99-Rv1YE5o5RjvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALwzidnFfYPR6mEWGbzFWOiJ6=6hmg=+52k99-Rv1YE5o5RjvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571CEEAB.6090300@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/24/2016 08:20 AM, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 1:20 AM, Ethan Furman wrote:
>> On 04/23/2016 06:29 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:

>>> Python enums are great. Sadly, they're still not quite as awesome as Java
>>> enums.
>>
>>
>> What fun things can Java enums do?
>
> Everything that Python enums can do, plus:
>
> * You can override methods of individual values, not just the class as
> a whole. Good for implementing the strategy pattern, or for defining a
> default method implementation that one or two values do differently.
> In Python you can emulate the same thing by adding the method directly
> to the instance dict of the enum value, so this isn't really all that
> much of a difference.

All non-dunder methods, at least.

> * Java doesn't have the hokey notion of enum instances being distinct
> from their "value". The individual enum members *are* the values.
> Whereas in Python an enum member is an awkward class instance that
> contains a value of some other type. Python tries to get away from the
> C-like notion that enums are ints by making the enum members
> non-comparable, but then gives us IntEnum as a way to work around it
> if we really want to. Since Java enums don't depend on any other type
> for their values, there's nothing inviting the user to treat enums as
> ints in the first place.

How does Java share enums with other programs, computers, and/or languages?

As far as value-separate-from-instance: if you want/need them to be the 
same thing, mix-in the type:

class Planet(float, Enum):
     ...

[see below for "no-alias" ideas/questions]

NB: The enum and the value are still different ('is' fails) but equal.

> * As a consequence of the above, Java doesn't conflate enum values
> with their parameters. The Python enum docs give us this interesting
> example of an enum that takes arguments from its declaration:
>
>>>> class Planet(Enum):
> ...     MERCURY = (3.303e+23, 2.4397e6)
> ...     VENUS   = (4.869e+24, 6.0518e6)
> ...     EARTH   = (5.976e+24, 6.37814e6)
> ...     MARS    = (6.421e+23, 3.3972e6)
> ...     JUPITER = (1.9e+27,   7.1492e7)
> ...     SATURN  = (5.688e+26, 6.0268e7)
> ...     URANUS  = (8.686e+25, 2.5559e7)
> ...     NEPTUNE = (1.024e+26, 2.4746e7)
> ...     def __init__(self, mass, radius):
> ...         self.mass = mass       # in kilograms
> ...         self.radius = radius   # in meters
> ...     @property
> ...     def surface_gravity(self):
> ...         # universal gravitational constant  (m3 kg-1 s-2)
> ...         G = 6.67300E-11
> ...         return G * self.mass / (self.radius * self.radius)
> ...
>>>> Planet.EARTH.value
> (5.976e+24, 6378140.0)
>>>> Planet.EARTH.surface_gravity
> 9.802652743337129
>
> This is incredibly useful, but it has a flaw: the value of each member
> of the enum is just the tuple of its arguments. Suppose we added a
> value for COUNTER_EARTH describing a hypothetical planet with the same
> mass and radius existing on the other side of the sun. [1] Then:
>
>>>> Planet.EARTH is Planet.COUNTER_EARTH
> True
>
> Because they have the same "value", instead of creating a separate
> member, COUNTER_EARTH gets defined as an alias for EARTH. To work
> around this, one would have to add a third argument to the above to
> pass in an additional value for the sole purpose of distinguishing (or
> else adapt the AutoNumber recipe to work with this example). This
> example is a bit contrived since it's generally not likely to come up
> with floats, but it can easily arise (and in my experience frequently
> does) when the arguments are of more discrete types. It's notable that
> the Java enum docs feature this very same example but without this
> weakness. [2]

One reason for this is that Python enums are lookup-able via the value:

 >>> Planet(9.80265274333129)
Planet.EARTH

Do Java enums not have such a feature, or this "feature" totally 
unnecessary in Java?

I could certainly add a "no-alias" feature to aenum.  What would be the 
appropriate value-lookup behaviour in such cases?

- return the first match
- return a list of matches
- raise an error
- disable value-lookups for that Enum

> * Speaking of AutoNumber, since Java enums don't have the
> instance/value distinction, they effectively do this implicitly, only
> without generating a bunch of ints that are entirely irrelevant to
> your enum type. With Python enums you have to follow a somewhat arcane
> recipe to avoid specifying values, which just generates some values
> and then hides them away. And it also breaks the Enum alias feature:
>
>>>> class Color(AutoNumber):
> ...     red = default = ()  # not an alias!
> ...     blue = ()
> ...
>>>> Color.red is Color.default
> False

Unfortunately, the empty tuple tends to be a singleton, so there is no 
way to tell that red and default are (supposed to be) the same and blue 
is (supposed to be) different:

--> a = b = ()
--> c = ()
--> a is b
True
--> a is c
True

If you have an idea on how to make that work I am interested.

> Anyroad, I think that covers all my beefs with the way enums are
> implemented in Python. Despite the above, they're a great feature, and
> I use them and appreciate that we have them.

Cool.  The stdlib Enum (and therefore the enum34 backport) is unlikely 
to change much.  However, aenum has a few fun things going on, and I'm 
happy to add more:

- NamedTuple (metaclass-based)
- NamedConstant (no aliases, no by-value lookups)
- Enum
   - magic auto-numbering
       class Number(Enum, auto=True):
          one, two, three
          def by_seven(self):
              return self.value * 7
   - auto-setting of attributes
        class Planet(Enum, init='mass radius'):
              MERCURY = 3.303e23, 2.4397e6
              EARTH = 5.976e24, 6.37814e6
              NEPTUNE = 1.024e26, 2.4746e7
        --> Planet.EARTH.mass
        5.976e24

--
~Ethan~


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 12:10:05 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 02:10:05 +1000
Subject: Comparing Python enums to Java, was: How much sanity checking is
 required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <571CEEAB.6090300@stoneleaf.us>
References: <CALwzidnFfYPR6mEWGbzFWOiJ6=6hmg=+52k99-Rv1YE5o5RjvA@mail.gmail.com>
 <571CEEAB.6090300@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqsxLsHx5WoSO4SacuzNGORaaKsr4k9x6wq_mE=8CaGig@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 2:04 AM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
> Unfortunately, the empty tuple tends to be a singleton, so there is no way
> to tell that red and default are (supposed to be) the same and blue is
> (supposed to be) different:
>
> --> a = b = ()
> --> c = ()
> --> a is b
> True
> --> a is c
> True
>
> If you have an idea on how to make that work I am interested.

Easy: allow an empty list to have the same meaning as an empty tuple.
Every time you have [] in your source code, you're guaranteed to get a
new (unique) empty list, and then multiple assignment will work.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 12:19:26 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 02:19:26 +1000
Subject: Optimizing Memory Allocation in a Simple, but Long Function
In-Reply-To: <CAGuRns8KhOFL-a1_a=0hMP=NbktoJw78ih3j4uUSbvkF8bf3pw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGuRns8KhOFL-a1_a=0hMP=NbktoJw78ih3j4uUSbvkF8bf3pw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrQfk20EuoZVMLqKv8F5r=YyKj0nr8iNPw7DWoCEYLmYA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Derek Klinge <schilke.60 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been writing a python script to explore Euler's Method of
> approximating Euler's Number. I was hoping there might be a way to make
> this process work faster, as for sufficiently large eulerSteps, the process
> below becomes quite slow and sometimes memory intensive. I'm hoping someone
> can give me some insight as to how to optimize these algorithms, or ways I
> might decrease memory usage. I have been thinking about finding a way
> around importing the math module, as it seems a bit unneeded except as an
> easy reference.

Are you sure memory is the real problem here?

(The first problem you have, incidentally, is a formatting one. All
your indentation has been lost. Try posting your code again, in a way
that doesn't lose leading spaces/tabs, and then we'll be better able
to figure out what's going on.)

If I'm reading your code correctly, you have two parts:

1) class EulersNumber, which iterates up to some specific count
2) Module-level functions, which progressively increase the count of
constructed EulersNumbers.

Between them, you appear to have an O(n*n) algorithm for finding a
"sufficiently-accurate" representation. You're starting over from
nothing every time. If, instead, you were to start from the previous
approximation and add another iteration, that ought to be immensely
faster.

ChrisA


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Sun Apr 24 12:42:10 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 09:42:10 -0700
Subject: Comparing Python enums to Java, was: How much sanity checking
 is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqsxLsHx5WoSO4SacuzNGORaaKsr4k9x6wq_mE=8CaGig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALwzidnFfYPR6mEWGbzFWOiJ6=6hmg=+52k99-Rv1YE5o5RjvA@mail.gmail.com>
 <571CEEAB.6090300@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmqsxLsHx5WoSO4SacuzNGORaaKsr4k9x6wq_mE=8CaGig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571CF762.4000809@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/24/2016 09:10 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 2:04 AM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
>> Unfortunately, the empty tuple tends to be a singleton, so there is no way
>> to tell that red and default are (supposed to be) the same and blue is
>> (supposed to be) different:
>>
>> --> a = b = ()
>> --> c = ()
>> --> a is b
>> True
>> --> a is c
>> True
>>
>> If you have an idea on how to make that work I am interested.
>
> Easy: allow an empty list to have the same meaning as an empty tuple.
> Every time you have [] in your source code, you're guaranteed to get a
> new (unique) empty list, and then multiple assignment will work.

*sigh*

Where were you three years ago?  ;)

Actually, thinking about it a bit more, if we did that then one could 
not use an empty list as an enum value.  Why would one want to?  No 
idea, but to make it nearly impossible I'd want a much better reason 
than a minor inconvenience:

class Numbers:
    def __init__(self, value=0):
       self.value = value
    def __call__(self, value=None):
       if value is None:
           value = self.value
       self.value = value + 1
       return value

a = Numbers()

class SomeNumbers(Enum):
    one = a()
    two = a()
    five = a(5)
    six = seis = a()

One extra character, and done.

--
~Ethan~


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 12:47:36 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 02:47:36 +1000
Subject: Comparing Python enums to Java, was: How much sanity checking is
 required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <571CF762.4000809@stoneleaf.us>
References: <CALwzidnFfYPR6mEWGbzFWOiJ6=6hmg=+52k99-Rv1YE5o5RjvA@mail.gmail.com>
 <571CEEAB.6090300@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmqsxLsHx5WoSO4SacuzNGORaaKsr4k9x6wq_mE=8CaGig@mail.gmail.com>
 <571CF762.4000809@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrji+E8UZLcfME2m5h94LS4YnK1FNBTwJMGrsbyJ_M4xg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 2:42 AM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
>> Easy: allow an empty list to have the same meaning as an empty tuple.
>> Every time you have [] in your source code, you're guaranteed to get a
>> new (unique) empty list, and then multiple assignment will work.
>
>
> *sigh*
>
> Where were you three years ago?  ;)
>
> Actually, thinking about it a bit more, if we did that then one could not
> use an empty list as an enum value.  Why would one want to?  No idea, but to
> make it nearly impossible I'd want a much better reason than a minor
> inconvenience:

I would normally expect enumerated values to be immutable and
hashable, but that isn't actually required by the code AIUI. Under
what circumstances is it useful to have mutable enum values?

ChrisA


From schilke.60 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 13:02:41 2016
From: schilke.60 at gmail.com (Derek Klinge)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 17:02:41 +0000
Subject: Optimizing Memory Allocation in a Simple, but Long Function
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrQfk20EuoZVMLqKv8F5r=YyKj0nr8iNPw7DWoCEYLmYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGuRns8KhOFL-a1_a=0hMP=NbktoJw78ih3j4uUSbvkF8bf3pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrQfk20EuoZVMLqKv8F5r=YyKj0nr8iNPw7DWoCEYLmYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGuRns86c4G5BHX_FF-OBnV_eRVKyngx_Dfp0u7hoHRT0WN++w@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry about the code indentation, I was using Pythonista (iOS), and it did
not have any problem with that indentation...

Here is a new set of the code:
## Write a method to approximate Euler's Number using Euler's Method
import math

class EulersNumber():
def __init__(self,n):
self.eulerSteps = n
self.e = self.EulersMethod(self.eulerSteps)
def linearApproximation(self,x,h,d): # f(x+h)=f(x)+h*f'(x)
return x + h * d
def EulersMethod(self, numberOfSteps): # Repeate linear approximation over
an even range
e = 1 # e**0 = 1
for step in range(numberOfSteps):
e = self.linearApproximation(e,1.0/numberOfSteps,e) # if f(x)= e**x,
f'(x)=f(x)
return e

def EulerStepWithGuess(accuracy,guessForN):
n = guessForN
e = EulersNumber(n)
while abs(e.e - math.e) > abs(accuracy):
n +=1
e = EulersNumber(n)
print('n={} \te= {} \tdelta(e)={}'.format(n,e.e,abs(e.e - math.e)))
return e

def EulersNumberToAccuracy(PowerOfTen):
x = 1
theGuess = 1
thisE = EulersNumber(1)
while x <= abs(PowerOfTen):
thisE = EulerStepWithGuess(10**(-1*x),theGuess)
theGuess = thisE.eulerSteps * 10
x += 1
return thisE

My problem is this: my attempt at Euler's Method involves creating a list
of numbers that is n long. Is there a way I can iterate over the linear
approximation method without creating a list of steps (maybe recursion, I
am a bit new at this). Ideally I'd like to perform the linearApproximation
method a arbitrary number of times (hopefully >10**10) and keep feeding the
answers back into itself to get the new answer. I know this will be
computationally time intensive, but how do I minimize memory usage (limit
the size of my list)? I also may be misunderstanding the problem, in which
case I am open to looking at it from a different perspective.

Thanks,
Derek

On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 9:22 AM Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Derek Klinge <schilke.60 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I have been writing a python script to explore Euler's Method of
> > approximating Euler's Number. I was hoping there might be a way to make
> > this process work faster, as for sufficiently large eulerSteps, the
> process
> > below becomes quite slow and sometimes memory intensive. I'm hoping
> someone
> > can give me some insight as to how to optimize these algorithms, or ways
> I
> > might decrease memory usage. I have been thinking about finding a way
> > around importing the math module, as it seems a bit unneeded except as an
> > easy reference.
>
> Are you sure memory is the real problem here?
>
> (The first problem you have, incidentally, is a formatting one. All
> your indentation has been lost. Try posting your code again, in a way
> that doesn't lose leading spaces/tabs, and then we'll be better able
> to figure out what's going on.)
>
> If I'm reading your code correctly, you have two parts:
>
> 1) class EulersNumber, which iterates up to some specific count
> 2) Module-level functions, which progressively increase the count of
> constructed EulersNumbers.
>
> Between them, you appear to have an O(n*n) algorithm for finding a
> "sufficiently-accurate" representation. You're starting over from
> nothing every time. If, instead, you were to start from the previous
> approximation and add another iteration, that ought to be immensely
> faster.
>
> ChrisA
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From schilke.60 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 13:06:22 2016
From: schilke.60 at gmail.com (Derek Klinge)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 17:06:22 +0000
Subject: Optimizing Memory Allocation in a Simple, but Long Function
In-Reply-To: <CAGuRns86c4G5BHX_FF-OBnV_eRVKyngx_Dfp0u7hoHRT0WN++w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGuRns8KhOFL-a1_a=0hMP=NbktoJw78ih3j4uUSbvkF8bf3pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrQfk20EuoZVMLqKv8F5r=YyKj0nr8iNPw7DWoCEYLmYA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns86c4G5BHX_FF-OBnV_eRVKyngx_Dfp0u7hoHRT0WN++w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGuRns-qq1jfVJ4TVnx_OHNacn-A+8e6uZPKWSuTinUs2bFYxA@mail.gmail.com>

I think my e-mail client may be stripping the indentation, here it is with
4-space indentation

## Write a method to approximate Euler's Number using Euler's Method
import math

class EulersNumber():
def __init__(self,n):
self.eulerSteps = n
self.e = self.EulersMethod(self.eulerSteps)
def linearApproximation(self,x,h,d): # f(x+h)=f(x)+h*f'(x)
return x + h * d
def EulersMethod(self, numberOfSteps): # Repeate linear approximation over
an even range
e = 1 # e**0 = 1
for step in range(numberOfSteps):
e = self.linearApproximation(e,1.0/numberOfSteps,e) # if f(x)= e**x,
f'(x)=f(x)
return e

def EulerStepWithGuess(accuracy,guessForN):
n = guessForN
e = EulersNumber(n)
while abs(e.e - math.e) > abs(accuracy):
n +=1
e = EulersNumber(n)
print('n={} \te= {} \tdelta(e)={}'.format(n,e.e,abs(e.e - math.e)))
return e

def EulersNumberToAccuracy(PowerOfTen):
x = 1
theGuess = 1
thisE = EulersNumber(1)
while x <= abs(PowerOfTen):
thisE = EulerStepWithGuess(10**(-1*x),theGuess)
theGuess = thisE.eulerSteps * 10
x += 1
return thisE
On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 10:02 AM Derek Klinge <schilke.60 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry about the code indentation, I was using Pythonista (iOS), and it did
> not have any problem with that indentation...
>
> Here is a new set of the code:
> ## Write a method to approximate Euler's Number using Euler's Method
> import math
>
> class EulersNumber():
> def __init__(self,n):
> self.eulerSteps = n
> self.e = self.EulersMethod(self.eulerSteps)
> def linearApproximation(self,x,h,d): # f(x+h)=f(x)+h*f'(x)
> return x + h * d
> def EulersMethod(self, numberOfSteps): # Repeate linear approximation over
> an even range
> e = 1 # e**0 = 1
> for step in range(numberOfSteps):
> e = self.linearApproximation(e,1.0/numberOfSteps,e) # if f(x)= e**x,
> f'(x)=f(x)
> return e
>
> def EulerStepWithGuess(accuracy,guessForN):
> n = guessForN
> e = EulersNumber(n)
> while abs(e.e - math.e) > abs(accuracy):
> n +=1
> e = EulersNumber(n)
> print('n={} \te= {} \tdelta(e)={}'.format(n,e.e,abs(e.e - math.e)))
> return e
>
> def EulersNumberToAccuracy(PowerOfTen):
> x = 1
> theGuess = 1
> thisE = EulersNumber(1)
> while x <= abs(PowerOfTen):
> thisE = EulerStepWithGuess(10**(-1*x),theGuess)
> theGuess = thisE.eulerSteps * 10
> x += 1
> return thisE
>
> My problem is this: my attempt at Euler's Method involves creating a list
> of numbers that is n long. Is there a way I can iterate over the linear
> approximation method without creating a list of steps (maybe recursion, I
> am a bit new at this). Ideally I'd like to perform the linearApproximation
> method a arbitrary number of times (hopefully >10**10) and keep feeding the
> answers back into itself to get the new answer. I know this will be
> computationally time intensive, but how do I minimize memory usage (limit
> the size of my list)? I also may be misunderstanding the problem, in which
> case I am open to looking at it from a different perspective.
>
> Thanks,
> Derek
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 9:22 AM Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Derek Klinge <schilke.60 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I have been writing a python script to explore Euler's Method of
>> > approximating Euler's Number. I was hoping there might be a way to make
>> > this process work faster, as for sufficiently large eulerSteps, the
>> process
>> > below becomes quite slow and sometimes memory intensive. I'm hoping
>> someone
>> > can give me some insight as to how to optimize these algorithms, or
>> ways I
>> > might decrease memory usage. I have been thinking about finding a way
>> > around importing the math module, as it seems a bit unneeded except as
>> an
>> > easy reference.
>>
>> Are you sure memory is the real problem here?
>>
>> (The first problem you have, incidentally, is a formatting one. All
>> your indentation has been lost. Try posting your code again, in a way
>> that doesn't lose leading spaces/tabs, and then we'll be better able
>> to figure out what's going on.)
>>
>> If I'm reading your code correctly, you have two parts:
>>
>> 1) class EulersNumber, which iterates up to some specific count
>> 2) Module-level functions, which progressively increase the count of
>> constructed EulersNumbers.
>>
>> Between them, you appear to have an O(n*n) algorithm for finding a
>> "sufficiently-accurate" representation. You're starting over from
>> nothing every time. If, instead, you were to start from the previous
>> approximation and add another iteration, that ought to be immensely
>> faster.
>>
>> ChrisA
>> --
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 13:09:49 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 03:09:49 +1000
Subject: Challenge: Shadow lots of built-ins
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpb9mtooGgSUvHz4gz4AaM66TzuDQJUF5YdR6-a3dtb3g@mail.gmail.com>

This is mostly just for the fun of it, but every now and then I have a
discussion with people about why it's legal to shadow Python's
built-in names, and it'd be handy to have a go-to piece of demo code.
So here's the challenge: Write a short, readable block of code that
shadows as many built-ins as possible.

The rules:

1) The code has to be readable on its own. Doesn't have to be fully
functional (it's okay to presume the existence of a back-end database,
for instance), but a human should be able to parse it easily.
2) PEP 8, please, for consistency.
3) Code should be Python 3.x compatible.
4) Every shadowed name MUST make sense. You would have to plausibly
use this exact same name in some other language.
5) Have fun! Enjoy writing suboptimal code! :)

Here's a starter.

def zip_all(root):
    """Compress a directory, skipping dotfiles

    Returns the created zip file and a list of stuff
    that got dropped into the bin.
    """
    bin = []
    with zipfile.ZipFile("temp.zip", "w") as zip:
        for root, dirs, files in os.walk("."):
            for dir in dirs:
                if dir.startswith("."):
                    dirs.remove(dir)
                    bin.append(os.path.join(root, dir))
            for file in files:
                if not file.startswith("."):
                    zip.write(os.path.join(root, file))
    return zip, bin

That's only four, and I know you folks can do way better than that!

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 13:11:44 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 03:11:44 +1000
Subject: Optimizing Memory Allocation in a Simple, but Long Function
In-Reply-To: <CAGuRns-qq1jfVJ4TVnx_OHNacn-A+8e6uZPKWSuTinUs2bFYxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGuRns8KhOFL-a1_a=0hMP=NbktoJw78ih3j4uUSbvkF8bf3pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrQfk20EuoZVMLqKv8F5r=YyKj0nr8iNPw7DWoCEYLmYA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns86c4G5BHX_FF-OBnV_eRVKyngx_Dfp0u7hoHRT0WN++w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns-qq1jfVJ4TVnx_OHNacn-A+8e6uZPKWSuTinUs2bFYxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoe3eHXLt+mNwftAh1gs3K+jy2X30EZbbUYophNk1qZTQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 3:06 AM, Derek Klinge <schilke.60 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think my e-mail client may be stripping the indentation, here it is with
> 4-space indentation

I think it is. Both your reposted versions have indentation lost. You
may need to use a different client.

My posts come from the Gmail web client and indentation usually comes
through just fine (tabs are sometimes lost, but spaces never are).
FWIW, I have "Rich Text" disabled - not sure if that makes a
difference.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 13:15:43 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 03:15:43 +1000
Subject: Optimizing Memory Allocation in a Simple, but Long Function
In-Reply-To: <CAGuRns86c4G5BHX_FF-OBnV_eRVKyngx_Dfp0u7hoHRT0WN++w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGuRns8KhOFL-a1_a=0hMP=NbktoJw78ih3j4uUSbvkF8bf3pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrQfk20EuoZVMLqKv8F5r=YyKj0nr8iNPw7DWoCEYLmYA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns86c4G5BHX_FF-OBnV_eRVKyngx_Dfp0u7hoHRT0WN++w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq5g848-PMTgHOg7sawm+JgA5mSfwDHA-ZZgsmYr6yLCA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 3:02 AM, Derek Klinge <schilke.60 at gmail.com> wrote:
> My problem is this: my attempt at Euler's Method involves creating a list of
> numbers that is n long. Is there a way I can iterate over the linear
> approximation method without creating a list of steps (maybe recursion, I am
> a bit new at this). Ideally I'd like to perform the linearApproximation
> method a arbitrary number of times (hopefully >10**10) and keep feeding the
> answers back into itself to get the new answer. I know this will be
> computationally time intensive, but how do I minimize memory usage (limit
> the size of my list)? I also may be misunderstanding the problem, in which
> case I am open to looking at it from a different perspective.

def EulersMethod(self, numberOfSteps): # Repeate linear approximation
over an even range
    e = 1 # e**0 = 1
    for step in range(numberOfSteps):
        e = self.linearApproximation(e,1.0/numberOfSteps,e) # if f(x)=
e**x, f'(x)=f(x)
    return e

This is your code, right?

I'm not seeing anywhere in here that creates a list of numbers. It
does exactly what you're hoping for: it feeds the answer back to
itself for the next step.

ChrisA


From bc at freeuk.com  Sun Apr 24 13:54:57 2016
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 18:54:57 +0100
Subject: Comparing Python enums to Java, was: How much sanity checking is
 required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.40.1461516466.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <CALwzidnFfYPR6mEWGbzFWOiJ6=6hmg=+52k99-Rv1YE5o5RjvA@mail.gmail.com>
 <571CEEAB.6090300@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmqsxLsHx5WoSO4SacuzNGORaaKsr4k9x6wq_mE=8CaGig@mail.gmail.com>
 <571CF762.4000809@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmrji+E8UZLcfME2m5h94LS4YnK1FNBTwJMGrsbyJ_M4xg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.40.1461516466.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nfj135$lnm$1@dont-email.me>

On 24/04/2016 17:47, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 2:42 AM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
>>> Easy: allow an empty list to have the same meaning as an empty tuple.
>>> Every time you have [] in your source code, you're guaranteed to get a
>>> new (unique) empty list, and then multiple assignment will work.
>>
>>
>> *sigh*
>>
>> Where were you three years ago?  ;)
>>
>> Actually, thinking about it a bit more, if we did that then one could not
>> use an empty list as an enum value.  Why would one want to?  No idea, but to
>> make it nearly impossible I'd want a much better reason than a minor
>> inconvenience:
>
> I would normally expect enumerated values to be immutable and
> hashable,

And, perhaps, to be actual enumerations. (So that in the set (a,b,c,d), 
you don't know nor care about the underlying values, except that they 
are distinct.)

-- 
Bartc


From schilke.60 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 13:56:10 2016
From: schilke.60 at gmail.com (Derek Klinge)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 17:56:10 +0000
Subject: Optimizing Memory Allocation in a Simple, but Long Function
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmq5g848-PMTgHOg7sawm+JgA5mSfwDHA-ZZgsmYr6yLCA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGuRns8KhOFL-a1_a=0hMP=NbktoJw78ih3j4uUSbvkF8bf3pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrQfk20EuoZVMLqKv8F5r=YyKj0nr8iNPw7DWoCEYLmYA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns86c4G5BHX_FF-OBnV_eRVKyngx_Dfp0u7hoHRT0WN++w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmq5g848-PMTgHOg7sawm+JgA5mSfwDHA-ZZgsmYr6yLCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGuRns8LsThq3iV-bkdBbg9fZO7s61z4ggBy=YkGDqhaB_J4Xw@mail.gmail.com>

Doesn't range(n) create a list n long?
On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 10:21 AM Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 3:02 AM, Derek Klinge <schilke.60 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > My problem is this: my attempt at Euler's Method involves creating a
> list of
> > numbers that is n long. Is there a way I can iterate over the linear
> > approximation method without creating a list of steps (maybe recursion,
> I am
> > a bit new at this). Ideally I'd like to perform the linearApproximation
> > method a arbitrary number of times (hopefully >10**10) and keep feeding
> the
> > answers back into itself to get the new answer. I know this will be
> > computationally time intensive, but how do I minimize memory usage (limit
> > the size of my list)? I also may be misunderstanding the problem, in
> which
> > case I am open to looking at it from a different perspective.
>
> def EulersMethod(self, numberOfSteps): # Repeate linear approximation
> over an even range
>     e = 1 # e**0 = 1
>     for step in range(numberOfSteps):
>         e = self.linearApproximation(e,1.0/numberOfSteps,e) # if f(x)=
> e**x, f'(x)=f(x)
>     return e
>
> This is your code, right?
>
> I'm not seeing anywhere in here that creates a list of numbers. It
> does exactly what you're hoping for: it feeds the answer back to
> itself for the next step.
>
> ChrisA
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 14:00:01 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 04:00:01 +1000
Subject: Optimizing Memory Allocation in a Simple, but Long Function
In-Reply-To: <CAGuRns8LsThq3iV-bkdBbg9fZO7s61z4ggBy=YkGDqhaB_J4Xw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGuRns8KhOFL-a1_a=0hMP=NbktoJw78ih3j4uUSbvkF8bf3pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrQfk20EuoZVMLqKv8F5r=YyKj0nr8iNPw7DWoCEYLmYA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns86c4G5BHX_FF-OBnV_eRVKyngx_Dfp0u7hoHRT0WN++w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmq5g848-PMTgHOg7sawm+JgA5mSfwDHA-ZZgsmYr6yLCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns8LsThq3iV-bkdBbg9fZO7s61z4ggBy=YkGDqhaB_J4Xw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpJswhCvMHMbU-M93J+=oVVtvT0hGt6z6Lb2hCvMeFhLA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 3:56 AM, Derek Klinge <schilke.60 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Doesn't range(n) create a list n long?

Not in Python 3. If your code is running on Python 2, use xrange
instead of range. I rather doubt that's your problem, though.

ChrisA


From steve at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 24 14:00:07 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 04:00:07 +1000
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com>
 <1461302724.477236.586265777.181ACCA0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAGgTfkNz5aeS5Jo+3yc+nWjUKnfhe=0zBVNeNHUMHD6Uj9VyEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <571C2541.9050309@icloud.com> <571C30C8.5000208@gmail.com>
 <mailman.24.1461465315.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <571c5e72$0$1615$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAGgTfkOXzfdASq7h4+0n3wokpmQmTREZ7Kzd_Qbog-hZ5HM7MA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.30.1461480050.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <571d09aa$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 04:40 pm, Michael Selik wrote:


> I think we're giving mixed messages because we're conflating "constants"
> and globals that are expected to change.

When you talk about "state", that usually means "the current state of the
program", not constants. math.pi is not "state".


> In our case here, I think two clients in the same process sharing state
> might be a feature rather than a bug. Or at least it has the same behavior
> as the current implementation.

I don't think so. Two clients sharing state is exactly what makes thread
programming with shared state so exciting.

Suppose you import the decimal module, and set the global context:

py> import decimal
py> decimal.setcontext(decimal.ExtendedContext)
py> decimal.getcontext().prec = 18
py> decimal.Decimal(1)/3
Decimal('0.333333333333333333')

Great. Now a millisecond later you do the same calculation:

py> decimal.Decimal(1)/3
Decimal('0.33333')


WTF just happened here??? The answer is, another client of the module, one
you may not even know about, has set the global context:

decimal.getcontext().prec = 5

and screwed you over but good.




-- 
Steven



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 14:01:40 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 04:01:40 +1000
Subject: Comparing Python enums to Java, was: How much sanity checking is
 required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <nfj135$lnm$1@dont-email.me>
References: <CALwzidnFfYPR6mEWGbzFWOiJ6=6hmg=+52k99-Rv1YE5o5RjvA@mail.gmail.com>
 <571CEEAB.6090300@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmqsxLsHx5WoSO4SacuzNGORaaKsr4k9x6wq_mE=8CaGig@mail.gmail.com>
 <571CF762.4000809@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmrji+E8UZLcfME2m5h94LS4YnK1FNBTwJMGrsbyJ_M4xg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.40.1461516466.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <nfj135$lnm$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqE9FcbAQg8fAtW36uvLHKXY_+9wVQJZ=y-DdVQq7wR2Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 3:54 AM, BartC <bc at freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 24/04/2016 17:47, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 2:42 AM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Easy: allow an empty list to have the same meaning as an empty tuple.
>>>> Every time you have [] in your source code, you're guaranteed to get a
>>>> new (unique) empty list, and then multiple assignment will work.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *sigh*
>>>
>>> Where were you three years ago?  ;)
>>>
>>> Actually, thinking about it a bit more, if we did that then one could not
>>> use an empty list as an enum value.  Why would one want to?  No idea, but
>>> to
>>> make it nearly impossible I'd want a much better reason than a minor
>>> inconvenience:
>>
>>
>> I would normally expect enumerated values to be immutable and
>> hashable,
>
>
> And, perhaps, to be actual enumerations. (So that in the set (a,b,c,d), you
> don't know nor care about the underlying values, except that they are
> distinct.)

Not necessarily; often, the Python enumeration has to sync up with
someone else's, possibly in C. It might not matter that BUTTON_OK is 1
and BUTTON_CANCEL is 2, but you have to make sure that everyone agrees
on those meanings. So when you build the Python module, it's mandatory
that those values be exactly what they are documented as.

ChrisA


From santanu01 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 14:05:36 2016
From: santanu01 at gmail.com (San)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 11:05:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: from __future__ import print_function
Message-ID: <59fb8aab-ff6b-4922-899a-f1b24739887f@googlegroups.com>

Hi All,
I want details explanation(why this statement used,when it can be used,etc) of following statement in python code

"from __future__ import print_function"

Thanks in advance.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Sun Apr 24 14:12:40 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 11:12:40 -0700
Subject: Comparing Python enums to Java, was: How much sanity checking
 is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrji+E8UZLcfME2m5h94LS4YnK1FNBTwJMGrsbyJ_M4xg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALwzidnFfYPR6mEWGbzFWOiJ6=6hmg=+52k99-Rv1YE5o5RjvA@mail.gmail.com>
 <571CEEAB.6090300@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmqsxLsHx5WoSO4SacuzNGORaaKsr4k9x6wq_mE=8CaGig@mail.gmail.com>
 <571CF762.4000809@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmrji+E8UZLcfME2m5h94LS4YnK1FNBTwJMGrsbyJ_M4xg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571D0C98.2020403@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/24/2016 09:47 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:

> I would normally expect enumerated values to be immutable and
> hashable, but that isn't actually required by the code AIUI. Under
> what circumstances is it useful to have mutable enum values?

Values can be anything.  The names are immutable and hashable.

--
~Ethan~



From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 14:14:16 2016
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 14:14:16 -0400
Subject: from __future__ import print_function
In-Reply-To: <59fb8aab-ff6b-4922-899a-f1b24739887f@googlegroups.com>
References: <59fb8aab-ff6b-4922-899a-f1b24739887f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+xJuNzMyGMu1ptC-BOka5x3zZSYU7a5ySHkQaTMvhO2vg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 2:05 PM, San <santanu01 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
> I want details explanation(why this statement used,when it can be used,etc) of following statement in python code
>
> "from __future__ import print_function"
>
> Thanks in advance.
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

It lets python 2.7 use python 3.x print function instead of the 2.7
print statement.  You might like some of the options, and your code
will be easier to upgrade to 3.x if you decide to do that

-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 14:21:51 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 04:21:51 +1000
Subject: Optimizing Memory Allocation in a Simple, but Long Function
In-Reply-To: <CAGuRns9uvHVBXP79X1Sp8vsW4JpWF-3g1mJoWHOq-cGog61cug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGuRns8KhOFL-a1_a=0hMP=NbktoJw78ih3j4uUSbvkF8bf3pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrQfk20EuoZVMLqKv8F5r=YyKj0nr8iNPw7DWoCEYLmYA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns86c4G5BHX_FF-OBnV_eRVKyngx_Dfp0u7hoHRT0WN++w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmq5g848-PMTgHOg7sawm+JgA5mSfwDHA-ZZgsmYr6yLCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns8LsThq3iV-bkdBbg9fZO7s61z4ggBy=YkGDqhaB_J4Xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns9uvHVBXP79X1Sp8vsW4JpWF-3g1mJoWHOq-cGog61cug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpvtP5pj_NiJNXGLmu2QCqSYZNgZjKisRRMRTtzvGHKyQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 4:03 AM, Derek Klinge <schilke.60 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok, from the gmail web client:

Bouncing this back to the list, and removing quote markers for other
people's copy/paste convenience.

## Write a method to approximate Euler's Number using Euler's Method
import math

class EulersNumber():
    def __init__(self,n):
        self.eulerSteps = n
        self.e    = self.EulersMethod(self.eulerSteps)
    def linearApproximation(self,x,h,d): # f(x+h)=f(x)+h*f'(x)
        return x + h * d
    def EulersMethod(self, numberOfSteps): # Repeate linear
approximation over an even range
        e = 1                                                    # e**0 = 1
        for step in range(numberOfSteps):
            e = self.linearApproximation(e,1.0/numberOfSteps,e) # if
f(x)= e**x, f'(x)=f(x)
        return e


def EulerStepWithGuess(accuracy,guessForN):
    n = guessForN
    e = EulersNumber(n)
    while abs(e.e - math.e) > abs(accuracy):
        n +=1
        e = EulersNumber(n)
        print('n={} \te= {} \tdelta(e)={}'.format(n,e.e,abs(e.e - math.e)))
    return e


def EulersNumberToAccuracy(PowerOfTen):
    x = 1
    theGuess = 1
    thisE = EulersNumber(1)
    while x <= abs(PowerOfTen):
        thisE = EulerStepWithGuess(10**(-1*x),theGuess)
        theGuess = thisE.eulerSteps * 10
        x += 1
    return thisE


> To see an example of my problem try something like EulersNumberToAccuracy(-10)

Yep, I see it.

I invoked your script as "python3 -i euler.py" and then made that call
interactively. It quickly ran through the first few iterations, and
then had one CPU core saturated; but at no time did memory usage look
too bad. You may be correct in Python 2, though - it started using
about 4GB of RAM (not a problem to me - I had about 9GB available when
I started it), and then I halted it.

The Python 3 version has been running for a few minutes now.

n=135914023 e= 2.718281818459972 delta(e)=9.999073125044333e-09

'top' says:
  PID USER      PR  NI    VIRT    RES    SHR S  %CPU %MEM     TIME+ COMMAND
 7467 rosuav    20   0   32432   9072   4844 R 100.0  0.1   3:58.44 python3

In other words, it's saturating one CPU core ("%CPU 100.0"), but its
memory usage (VIRT/RES/SHR) is very low. At best, this process can be
blamed for 0.1% of memory.

Adding these lines to the top makes it behave differently in Python 2:

try: range = xrange
except NameError: pass

The Py3 behaviour won't change, but Py2 should now have the same kind
of benefit (the xrange object is an iterable that doesn't need a
concrete list of integers).

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 14:27:43 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 04:27:43 +1000
Subject: Comparing Python enums to Java, was: How much sanity checking is
 required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <571D0C98.2020403@stoneleaf.us>
References: <CALwzidnFfYPR6mEWGbzFWOiJ6=6hmg=+52k99-Rv1YE5o5RjvA@mail.gmail.com>
 <571CEEAB.6090300@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmqsxLsHx5WoSO4SacuzNGORaaKsr4k9x6wq_mE=8CaGig@mail.gmail.com>
 <571CF762.4000809@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmrji+E8UZLcfME2m5h94LS4YnK1FNBTwJMGrsbyJ_M4xg@mail.gmail.com>
 <571D0C98.2020403@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpaQ0nQLXRdnp112jx-cEENO-yxmsaaYiXM4M1+zMU0CA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 4:12 AM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
> On 04/24/2016 09:47 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> I would normally expect enumerated values to be immutable and
>> hashable, but that isn't actually required by the code AIUI. Under
>> what circumstances is it useful to have mutable enum values?
>
>
> Values can be anything.  The names are immutable and hashable.

I know they *can* be, because I looked in the docs; but does it make
sense to a human? Sure, we can legally do this:

>>> class Color(Enum):
...     red = 1
...     green = 2
...     blue = 3
...     break_me = [0xA0, 0xF0, 0xC0]
...
>>> Color([0xA0, 0xF0, 0xC0])
<Color.break_me: [160, 240, 192]>
>>> Color([0xA0, 0xF0, 0xC0]).value.append(1)
>>> Color([0xA0, 0xF0, 0xC0]).value.append(1)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/enum.py", line 241, in __call__
    return cls.__new__(cls, value)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/enum.py", line 476, in __new__
    raise ValueError("%r is not a valid %s" % (value, cls.__name__))
ValueError: [160, 240, 192] is not a valid Color

but I don't think it's a good thing to ever intentionally do. It's
fine for the Enum class to not enforce it (it means you can use
arbitrary objects as values, and that's fine), but if you actually do
this, then <insert WAT image>.

At some point, we're moving beyond the concept of "enumeration" and
settling on "types.SimpleNamespace".

ChrisA


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Sun Apr 24 14:45:10 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 11:45:10 -0700
Subject: Comparing Python enums to Java, was: How much sanity checking
 is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpaQ0nQLXRdnp112jx-cEENO-yxmsaaYiXM4M1+zMU0CA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALwzidnFfYPR6mEWGbzFWOiJ6=6hmg=+52k99-Rv1YE5o5RjvA@mail.gmail.com>
 <571CEEAB.6090300@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmqsxLsHx5WoSO4SacuzNGORaaKsr4k9x6wq_mE=8CaGig@mail.gmail.com>
 <571CF762.4000809@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmrji+E8UZLcfME2m5h94LS4YnK1FNBTwJMGrsbyJ_M4xg@mail.gmail.com>
 <571D0C98.2020403@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmpaQ0nQLXRdnp112jx-cEENO-yxmsaaYiXM4M1+zMU0CA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571D1436.6040007@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/24/2016 11:27 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 4:12 AM, Ethan Furman wrote:

>> Values can be anything.  The names are immutable and hashable.
>
> I know they *can* be, because I looked in the docs; but does it make
> sense to a human? Sure, we can legally do this:

Well, not me.  ;)

>--> class Color(Enum):
> ...     red = 1
> ...     green = 2
> ...     blue = 3
> ...     break_me = [0xA0, 0xF0, 0xC0]
> ...
>--> Color([0xA0, 0xF0, 0xC0])
> <Color.break_me: [160, 240, 192]>
>--> Color([0xA0, 0xF0, 0xC0]).value.append(1)
>--> Color([0xA0, 0xF0, 0xC0]).value.append(1)

If you are looking up by value, you have to use the current value. 
Looks like pebkac error to me.  ;)


> At some point, we're moving beyond the concept of "enumeration" and
> settling on "types.SimpleNamespace".

Sure.  But like most things in Python I'm not going to enforce it.  And 
if somebody somewhere has a really cool use-case for it, more power to 'em.

--
~Ethan~


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Sun Apr 24 14:48:55 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 11:48:55 -0700
Subject: from __future__ import print_function
In-Reply-To: <CAPM-O+xJuNzMyGMu1ptC-BOka5x3zZSYU7a5ySHkQaTMvhO2vg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <59fb8aab-ff6b-4922-899a-f1b24739887f@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPM-O+xJuNzMyGMu1ptC-BOka5x3zZSYU7a5ySHkQaTMvhO2vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571D1517.70500@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/24/2016 11:14 AM, Joel Goldstick wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 2:05 PM, San wrote:

>> I want details explanation(why this statement used,when it can be used,etc) of following statement in python code
>>
>> "from __future__ import print_function"
>
> It lets python 2.7 use python 3.x print function instead of the 2.7
> print statement.  You might like some of the options, and your code
> will be easier to upgrade to 3.x if you decide to do that

When it can be used:  at the top of a python module; it must be the 
first executable line (only comments and doc-strings can be before it).

--
~Ethan~
	


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 14:55:28 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 12:55:28 -0600
Subject: Comparing Python enums to Java, was: How much sanity checking is
 required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <571CEEAB.6090300@stoneleaf.us>
References: <CALwzidnFfYPR6mEWGbzFWOiJ6=6hmg=+52k99-Rv1YE5o5RjvA@mail.gmail.com>
 <571CEEAB.6090300@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=EsLo1bxoO_SYEwdQg-unCCQ_wdg4RfwOwykMLpe7tOA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
> On 04/24/2016 08:20 AM, Ian Kelly wrote:
>> * Java doesn't have the hokey notion of enum instances being distinct
>> from their "value". The individual enum members *are* the values.
>> Whereas in Python an enum member is an awkward class instance that
>> contains a value of some other type. Python tries to get away from the
>> C-like notion that enums are ints by making the enum members
>> non-comparable, but then gives us IntEnum as a way to work around it
>> if we really want to. Since Java enums don't depend on any other type
>> for their values, there's nothing inviting the user to treat enums as
>> ints in the first place.
>
>
> How does Java share enums with other programs, computers, and/or languages?

Java enums are serializable using the name. If you need it to be
interoperable with other languages where they're int-based, then you
could attach that value as a field. But that would just be data; you
wouldn't be making that value an integral part of the Java enum just
because some other language does it that way.

>> Because they have the same "value", instead of creating a separate
>> member, COUNTER_EARTH gets defined as an alias for EARTH. To work
>> around this, one would have to add a third argument to the above to
>> pass in an additional value for the sole purpose of distinguishing (or
>> else adapt the AutoNumber recipe to work with this example). This
>> example is a bit contrived since it's generally not likely to come up
>> with floats, but it can easily arise (and in my experience frequently
>> does) when the arguments are of more discrete types. It's notable that
>> the Java enum docs feature this very same example but without this
>> weakness. [2]
>
>
> One reason for this is that Python enums are lookup-able via the value:
>
>>>> Planet(9.80265274333129)
> Planet.EARTH
>
> Do Java enums not have such a feature, or this "feature" totally unnecessary
> in Java?

It's unnecessary. If you want to look up an enum constant by something
other than name, you'd provide a static method or mapping.

I'd argue that it's unnecessary in Python too for the same reason. But
as long as Python enums make a special distinction of their value,
there might as well be a built-in way to do it.

> I could certainly add a "no-alias" feature to aenum.  What would be the
> appropriate value-lookup behaviour in such cases?
>
> - return the first match
> - return a list of matches
> - raise an error
> - disable value-lookups for that Enum

Probably the third or fourth, as I think that value lookup would
generally not be useful in such cases, and it can be overridden if
desired.

> Cool.  The stdlib Enum (and therefore the enum34 backport) is unlikely to
> change much.  However, aenum has a few fun things going on, and I'm happy to
> add more:
>
> - NamedTuple (metaclass-based)
> - NamedConstant (no aliases, no by-value lookups)
> - Enum
>   - magic auto-numbering
>       class Number(Enum, auto=True):
>          one, two, three
>          def by_seven(self):
>              return self.value * 7
>   - auto-setting of attributes
>        class Planet(Enum, init='mass radius'):
>              MERCURY = 3.303e23, 2.4397e6
>              EARTH = 5.976e24, 6.37814e6
>              NEPTUNE = 1.024e26, 2.4746e7
>        --> Planet.EARTH.mass
>        5.976e24

Neat!


From cmpython at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 14:58:26 2016
From: cmpython at gmail.com (CM)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 11:58:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Scraping email to make invoice
Message-ID: <e75f5681-6e6f-424f-8697-b01c94d0f3ce@googlegroups.com>

I would like to write a Pythons script to automate a tedious process and could use some advice.

The source content will be an email that has 5-10 PO (purchase order) numbers and information for freelance work done. The target content will be an invoice. (There will be an email like this every week).

Right now, the "recommended" way to go (from the company) from source to target is manually copying and pasting all the tedious details of the work done into the invoice. But this is laborious, error-prone...and just begging for automation. There is no human judgment necessary whatsoever in this.

I'm comfortable with "scraping" a text file and have written scripts for this, but could use some pointers on other parts of this operation.

1. INPUT: What's the best way to scrape an email like this? The email is to a Gmail account, and the content shows up in the email as a series of basically 6x7 tables (HTML?), one table per PO number/task. I know if the freelancer were to copy and paste the whole set of tables into a text file and save it as plain text, Python could easily scrape that file, but I'd much prefer to save the user those steps. Is there a relatively easy way to go from the Gmail email to generating the invoice directly? (I know there is, but wasn't sure what is state of the art these days).

2. OUPUT: The invoice will have boilerplate content on top and then an Excel table at bottom that is mostly the same information from the source content. Ideally, so that the invoice looks good, the invoice should be a Word document. For the first pass at this, it looked best by laying out the entire invoice in Excel and then copy and pasting it into a Word doc as an image (since otherwise the columns ran over for some reason). In any case, the goal is to create a single page invoice that looks like a clean, professional looking invoice.

3. UI: I am comfortable with making GUI apps, so could use this as the interface for the (somewhat computer-uncomfortable) user. But the less user actions necessary, the better. The emails always come from the same sender, and always have the same boilerplate language ("Below please find your Purchase Order (PO)"), so I'm envisioning a small GUI window with a single button that says "MAKE NEWEST INVOICE" and the user presses it and it automatically searches the user's email for PO # emails and creates the newest invoice. I'm guessing I could keep a sqlite database or flat file on the computer to just track what is meant by "newest", and then the output would have the date created in the file, so the user can be sure what has been invoiced.

I'm hoping I can write this in a couple of days. 

Any suggestions welcome! Thanks.


From eryksun at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 15:42:29 2016
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 14:42:29 -0500
Subject: Remove directory tree without following symlinks
In-Reply-To: <DUB123-W25926A459EE112FA2741FA83610@phx.gbl>
References: <571a3ba2$0$1597$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1461337766.365000.586700849.0DDBDB0B@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.16.1461337768.2861.python-list@python.org>
 <571a5be6$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <DUB123-W22A605538041FB2749C64B836F0@phx.gbl>
 <CACL+1aueH_scSTYW1Q6pGsZ92+8OWHB6tks3SqAAaU-wb6Ac4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <DUB123-W362E7C64F347B92A74E34B83600@phx.gbl>
 <CACL+1avhu9YcM5qbFaAdhq9ZUoizP5Dc8p99LMrCcREmcxBNWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <DUB123-W25926A459EE112FA2741FA83610@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CACL+1auZBa6q-+_=bbx-H6J7bpsXdYJ2dNx7mRpfeRqo_jru1Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 5:42 AM, Albert-Jan Roskam
<sjeik_appie at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Aww, I kinda forgot about that already, but I came across this last
> year [1]. Apparently, shutil.rmtree(very_long_path) failed under Win 7,
> even with the "silly prefix". I believe very_long_path was a
> Python2-str.
> [1]
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2015-June/693156.html

Python 2's str branch of the os functions gets implemented on Windows
using the [A]NSI API, such as FindFirstFileA and FindNextFileA to
implement listdir(). Generally the ANSI API is a light wrapper around
the [W]ide-character API. It simply decodes byte strings to UTF-16 and
calls the wide-character function (or a common internal function).

IIRC, in Windows 7, byte strings are decoded using a per-thread buffer
with size MAX_PATH (260), so prefixing the path with "\\?\" won't
help. You have to use the wide-character API. Windows 10, on the other
hand, decodes using a dynamically allocated buffer, so you can usually
get away with using a long byte string. But not with Python 2
os.listdir(), which uses a stack-allocated MAX_PATH+5 buffer in the
str branch. For example:

Python 2 os.mkdir works:

    >>> path = os.path.normpath('//?/C:/Temp/long/' + 'a' * 255)
    >>> os.makedirs(path)

but os.listdir requires unicode:

    >>> os.listdir(path)
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
    TypeError: must be (buffer overflow), not str
    >>> os.listdir(path.decode('mbcs'))
    []

Also, the str branch of listdir appends "/*.*", with a forward slash,
so it's incompatible with the "\\?\" prefix, even for short paths:

    >>> os.listdir(r'\\?\C:\Temp')
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
    WindowsError: [Error 123] The filename, directory name, or volume
    label syntax is incorrect: '\\\\?\\C:\\Temp/*.*'

> It seems useful if shutil or os.path would automatically prefix paths
> with "\\?\". It is rarely really needed, though. (in my case it was
> needed to copy a bunch of MS Outlook .msg files, which automatically
> get the subject line as the filename, and perhaps the first sentence
> of the mail of the mail has no subject).

I doubt a change like that would get backported to 2.7. Recently there
was a lengthy discussion about adding an __fspath__ protocol to Python
3. Possibly this can be automatically handled in the __fspath__
implementation of pathlib.WindowsPath and the DirEntry type returned
by os.scandir.


From arthur.m.sherman at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 16:26:52 2016
From: arthur.m.sherman at gmail.com (arthur sherman)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 13:26:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe2 in position
 54:
Message-ID: <260a9e80-626a-4f5c-b2d4-dc44bc451fe5@googlegroups.com>

m using a python web applic (adagios, a nagios configuration tool).
when attempting a certain operation on the client side browser i get the above error.
the client side is ubunti 14.04. servers side is debian 8. browser is ff or chrome.
both show:
echo $LANG
en_US.UTF-8

before i dive into the code, r there any OS level things to try? 
here's the full error traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/opt/adagios/adagios/views.py", line 43, in wrapper
result = view_func(request, *args, **kwargs)
File "/opt/adagios/adagios/objectbrowser/views.py", line 191, in edit_object
c['form'] = PynagForm(pynag_object=my_object, initial=my_object._original_attributes)
File "/opt/adagios/adagios/objectbrowser/forms.py", line 312, in __init__
self.fields[field_name] = self.get_pynagField(field_name, css_tag="inherited")
File "/opt/adagios/adagios/objectbrowser/forms.py", line 418, in get_pynagField
_('%(inherited_value)s (inherited from template)') % {'inherited_value': smart_str(inherited_value)}
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe2 in position 54: ordinal not in range(128)

tnx in advance for any assistance,
ams
avraham
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:58 am
Top


From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Sun Apr 24 16:38:11 2016
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Friedrich Rentsch)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 22:38:11 +0200
Subject: Scraping email to make invoice
In-Reply-To: <e75f5681-6e6f-424f-8697-b01c94d0f3ce@googlegroups.com>
References: <e75f5681-6e6f-424f-8697-b01c94d0f3ce@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <571D2EB3.90104@bluewin.ch>



On 04/24/2016 08:58 PM, CM wrote:
> I would like to write a Pythons script to automate a tedious process and could use some advice.
>
> The source content will be an email that has 5-10 PO (purchase order) numbers and information for freelance work done. The target content will be an invoice. (There will be an email like this every week).
>
> Right now, the "recommended" way to go (from the company) from source to target is manually copying and pasting all the tedious details of the work done into the invoice. But this is laborious, error-prone...and just begging for automation. There is no human judgment necessary whatsoever in this.
>
> I'm comfortable with "scraping" a text file and have written scripts for this, but could use some pointers on other parts of this operation.
>
> 1. INPUT: What's the best way to scrape an email like this? The email is to a Gmail account, and the content shows up in the email as a series of basically 6x7 tables (HTML?), one table per PO number/task. I know if the freelancer were to copy and paste the whole set of tables into a text file and save it as plain text, Python could easily scrape that file, but I'd much prefer to save the user those steps. Is there a relatively easy way to go from the Gmail email to generating the invoice directly? (I know there is, but wasn't sure what is state of the art these days).
>
> 2. OUPUT: The invoice will have boilerplate content on top and then an Excel table at bottom that is mostly the same information from the source content. Ideally, so that the invoice looks good, the invoice should be a Word document. For the first pass at this, it looked best by laying out the entire invoice in Excel and then copy and pasting it into a Word doc as an image (since otherwise the columns ran over for some reason). In any case, the goal is to create a single page invoice that looks like a clean, professional looking invoice.
>
> 3. UI: I am comfortable with making GUI apps, so could use this as the interface for the (somewhat computer-uncomfortable) user. But the less user actions necessary, the better. The emails always come from the same sender, and always have the same boilerplate language ("Below please find your Purchase Order (PO)"), so I'm envisioning a small GUI window with a single button that says "MAKE NEWEST INVOICE" and the user presses it and it automatically searches the user's email for PO # emails and creates the newest invoice. I'm guessing I could keep a sqlite database or flat file on the computer to just track what is meant by "newest", and then the output would have the date created in the file, so the user can be sure what has been invoiced.
>
> I'm hoping I can write this in a couple of days.
>
> Any suggestions welcome! Thanks.

INPUT: What's the best way to scrape an email like this?  --  Like what? You need to explain what exactly your input is or show an example.

Frederic






From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 17:55:34 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 22:55:34 +0100
Subject: Optimizing Memory Allocation in a Simple, but Long Function
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpvtP5pj_NiJNXGLmu2QCqSYZNgZjKisRRMRTtzvGHKyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGuRns8KhOFL-a1_a=0hMP=NbktoJw78ih3j4uUSbvkF8bf3pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrQfk20EuoZVMLqKv8F5r=YyKj0nr8iNPw7DWoCEYLmYA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns86c4G5BHX_FF-OBnV_eRVKyngx_Dfp0u7hoHRT0WN++w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmq5g848-PMTgHOg7sawm+JgA5mSfwDHA-ZZgsmYr6yLCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns8LsThq3iV-bkdBbg9fZO7s61z4ggBy=YkGDqhaB_J4Xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns9uvHVBXP79X1Sp8vsW4JpWF-3g1mJoWHOq-cGog61cug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpvtP5pj_NiJNXGLmu2QCqSYZNgZjKisRRMRTtzvGHKyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxSwb8=a+b5WQfd3KeXTe8VuL4RMnwu3TSNp8129FJHJGw@mail.gmail.com>

On 24 April 2016 at 19:21, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 4:03 AM, Derek Klinge <schilke.60 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ok, from the gmail web client:
>
> Bouncing this back to the list, and removing quote markers for other
> people's copy/paste convenience.
>
> ## Write a method to approximate Euler's Number using Euler's Method
> import math
>
> class EulersNumber():
>     def __init__(self,n):
>         self.eulerSteps = n
>         self.e    = self.EulersMethod(self.eulerSteps)
>     def linearApproximation(self,x,h,d): # f(x+h)=f(x)+h*f'(x)
>         return x + h * d
>     def EulersMethod(self, numberOfSteps): # Repeate linear
> approximation over an even range
>         e = 1                                                    # e**0 = 1
>         for step in range(numberOfSteps):
>             e = self.linearApproximation(e,1.0/numberOfSteps,e) # if
> f(x)= e**x, f'(x)=f(x)
>         return e
>
>
> def EulerStepWithGuess(accuracy,guessForN):
>     n = guessForN
>     e = EulersNumber(n)
>     while abs(e.e - math.e) > abs(accuracy):
>         n +=1
>         e = EulersNumber(n)
>         print('n={} \te= {} \tdelta(e)={}'.format(n,e.e,abs(e.e - math.e)))
>     return e
>
>
> def EulersNumberToAccuracy(PowerOfTen):
>     x = 1
>     theGuess = 1
>     thisE = EulersNumber(1)
>     while x <= abs(PowerOfTen):
>         thisE = EulerStepWithGuess(10**(-1*x),theGuess)
>         theGuess = thisE.eulerSteps * 10
>         x += 1
>     return thisE
>
>
>> To see an example of my problem try something like EulersNumberToAccuracy(-10)

Now that I can finally see your code I can see what the problem is. So
essentially you want to calculate Euler's number in the following way:

e = exp(1) and exp(t) is the solution of the initial value problem
with ordinary differential equation dx/dt = x and initial condition
x(0)=1.

So you're using Euler's method to numerically solve the ODE from t=0
to t=1. Which gives you an estimate for x(1) = exp(1) = e.

Euler's method solves this by going in steps from t=0 to t=1 with some
step size e.g. dt = 0.1. You get a sequence of values x[n] where

   x[0] = x(0) = 1  # initial condition
   x[1] = x[0] + dt*f(x[0]) = x[0] + dt*x[0]
   x[2] = x[1] + dt*x[1] # etc.

In order to get to t=1 in N steps you set dt = 1/N. So simplifying
your code (all the classes and functions are just confusing the
situation here):

N = 1000
dt = 1.0 / N
x = 1
for n in range(N):
    x = x + dt*x
print(x)

When I run that I get:
2.71692393224

Okay that's great but actually you want to be able to set the accuracy
required and then steadily increase N until it's big enough to achieve
the expected accuracy so you do this:

import math

error = 1
accuracy = 1e-2

N = 1
while error > accuracy:
    dt = 1.0 / N
    x = 1
    for n in range(N):
        x = x + dt*x
    error = abs(math.e - x)
    N += 1
print(x)

But what happens here? You have a loop in a loop. The inner loop takes
n over N values. The outer loop takes N from 1 up to Nmin where Nmin
is the smallest value of N such that we achieve the desired accuracy.

This is a classic case of a quadratic performance algorithm. As you
make the accuracy smaller you're implicitly increasing Nmin. However
the algorithmic performance is quadratic in Nmin i.e. O(Nmin**2). The
problem is the nested loops. If you have an outer loop that increases
the length of an inner loop by 1 at each step then you have a
quadratic algorithm akin to:

# This loop is O(M**2)
for n in range(N):
    for N in range(M):
        # do stuff

To see that it is quadratic see:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangular_number

The simplest fix here is to replace N+=1 with N*=2. Instead of
increasing the number of steps by one if the accuracy is not small
enough then you should double the number of steps. That will give you
an O(Nmin) algorithm.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1/2_%2B_1/4_%2B_1/8_%2B_1/16_%2B_%E2%8B%AF

A better method is to do a bit of algebra before putting down the code:

    x[1] = x[0] + h*x[0] = x[0]*(1+h) = x[0]*(1+1/N) = (1+1/N)
    x[2] = x[1]*(1+1/N) = (1+1/N)**2
    ...
    x[n] = (1 + 1/n)**n

So doing the loop for Euler's method is equivalent to just writing:

    x = (1 + 1.0/N)**N

This considered as a sequence in N is well known as a sequence that
converges to e. In fact this is how the number e was first discovered:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_%28mathematical_constant%29#Compound_interest

Python can compute this much quicker than your previous version:

N = 1
for _ in range(40):
    N *= 2
    print((1 + 1.0/N) ** N)

Which runs instantly and gives:

2.25
2.44140625
2.56578451395
2.63792849737
2.67699012938
2.69734495257
2.70773901969
2.71299162425
2.71563200017
2.71695572947
2.71761848234
2.71795008119
2.71811593627
2.71819887772
2.71824035193
2.7182610899
2.71827145911
2.71827664377
2.71827923611
2.71828053228
2.71828118037
2.71828150441
2.71828166644
2.71828174745
2.71828178795
2.71828180821
2.71828181833
2.7182818234
2.71828182593
2.71828182719
2.71828182783
2.71828182814
2.7182818283
2.71828182838
2.71828182842
2.71828182844
2.71828182845
2.71828182845
2.71828182846
2.71828182846

So your method is computing the above numbers but in a slower way that
also has more potential for rounding error. The error here is 1e-13
for the last numbers in this sequence. But N=2**40 so your Euler
method would need approximately 10**12 iterations in your inner loop
to get the same result. That's going to be slow even if you don't use
a quadratic algorithm.

--
Oscar


From dkeeney at travelbyroad.net  Sun Apr 24 18:07:55 2016
From: dkeeney at travelbyroad.net (David)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 15:07:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: asyncio and subprocesses
Message-ID: <a354338b-3705-44be-b194-afd16ca4a911@googlegroups.com>


Is this a bug in the asyncio libraries?



This code:

'''
  proc = yield from asyncio.create_subprocess_exec(*cmd,
            stdout=subprocess.PIPE, stderr=subprocess.PIPE, env=env)

  # read all data from subprocess pipe, copy to nextCoro
  ln = yield from proc.stdout.read(1024)
  while ln:
      yield from nextCoro.process(ln)
      ln = yield from proc.stdout.read(1024)

'''

will throw this exception:

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/project/bulk_aio.py", line 52, in db_source
ln = yield from proc.stdout.read(1024)
File "/usr/lib/python3.4/asyncio/streams.py", line 462, in read
self._maybe_resume_transport()
File "/usr/lib/python3.4/asyncio/streams.py", line 349, in _maybe_resume_transport  self._transport.resume_reading()
File "/usr/lib/python3.4/asyncio/unix_events.py", line 364, in resume_reading  self._loop.add_reader(self._fileno, self._read_ready)
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'add_reader'


The exception always happens at the end of the subprocess's run, in what would be the last read. Whether it happens correlates with the time needed for nextCoro.process.  If each iteration takes more than about a millisecond, the exception will be thrown.

It *seems* that when the transport loses the pipe connection, it schedules the event loop for removal immediately, and the _loop gets set to None before the data can all be read.  This is the sequence in unix_events.py _UnixReadPipeTransport._read_ready.

Is there a workaround to avoid this exception?  Is this a fixed bug, already?  I am using Python 3.4.2 as distributed in Ubuntu Lucid, with built-in asyncio.

Thank you.
David



From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Apr 24 18:14:32 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 00:14:32 +0200
Subject: UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe2 in
 position 54:
References: <260a9e80-626a-4f5c-b2d4-dc44bc451fe5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nfjgg9$krd$1@ger.gmane.org>

arthur sherman wrote:

> m using a python web applic (adagios, a nagios configuration tool).
> when attempting a certain operation on the client side browser i get the
> above error. the client side is ubunti 14.04. servers side is debian 8.
> browser is ff or chrome. both show:
> echo $LANG
> en_US.UTF-8
> 
> before i dive into the code, r there any OS level things to try?
> here's the full error traceback:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "/opt/adagios/adagios/views.py", line 43, in wrapper
> result = view_func(request, *args, **kwargs)
> File "/opt/adagios/adagios/objectbrowser/views.py", line 191, in
> edit_object c['form'] = PynagForm(pynag_object=my_object,
> initial=my_object._original_attributes) File
> "/opt/adagios/adagios/objectbrowser/forms.py", line 312, in __init__
> self.fields[field_name] = self.get_pynagField(field_name,
> css_tag="inherited") File "/opt/adagios/adagios/objectbrowser/forms.py",
> line 418, in get_pynagField _('%(inherited_value)s (inherited from
> template)') % {'inherited_value': smart_str(inherited_value)}
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe2 in position 54:
> ordinal not in range(128)

Probably one of

_(...)

or

smart_str(...)

returns unicode and the other returns a non-ascii bytestring:

>>> u"%s" % "\xe2"
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe2 in position 0: 
ordinal not in range(128)
>>> "\xe2 %s" % u"foo"
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe2 in position 0: 
ordinal not in range(128)

> before i dive into the code, r there any OS level things to try?

Probably not. If you entered non-ascii text into a form, and can limit 
yourself to ascii-only then that might be a workaround...



From peter.brittain.os at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 18:55:03 2016
From: peter.brittain.os at gmail.com (Peter Brittain)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 15:55:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python TUI that will work on DOS/Windows and Unix/Linux
In-Reply-To: <l0q54r$ss8$1@dont-email.me>
References: <kvmvpg$g96$1@dont-email.me> <l0768i$v2$1@dont-email.me>
 <mailman.229.1378858009.5461.python-list@python.org>
 <l0q54r$ss8$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <74e76727-9dca-43d7-aceb-0b7b1a8bbec1@googlegroups.com>

I noticed this trail on Google...  if you're still interested, you could try out

https://github.com/peterbrittain/asciimatics

I ported it to Windows from Linux so exactly the same API works on both.


From torriem at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 19:19:41 2016
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 17:19:41 -0600
Subject: Scraping email to make invoice
In-Reply-To: <e75f5681-6e6f-424f-8697-b01c94d0f3ce@googlegroups.com>
References: <e75f5681-6e6f-424f-8697-b01c94d0f3ce@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <571D548D.2040500@gmail.com>

On 04/24/2016 12:58 PM, CM wrote:
> 1. INPUT: What's the best way to scrape an email like this? The
> email is to a Gmail account, and the content shows up in the email as
> a series of basically 6x7 tables (HTML?), one table per PO
> number/task. I know if the freelancer were to copy and paste the
> whole set of tables into a text file and save it as plain text,
> Python could easily scrape that file, but I'd much prefer to save the
> user those steps. Is there a relatively easy way to go from the Gmail
> email to generating the invoice directly? (I know there is, but
> wasn't sure what is state of the art these days).

I would configure Gmail to allow IMAP access (you'll have to set up a
special password for this most likely), and then use an imap library
from Python to directly find the relevant messages and access the email
message body.  If the body is HTML-formatted (sounds like it is) I would
use either BeautifulSoup or lxml to parse it and get out the relevant
information.

> 2. OUPUT: The invoice will have boilerplate content on top and then 
> an Excel table at bottom that is mostly the same information from
> the source content. Ideally, so that the invoice looks good, the
> invoice should be a Word document. For the first pass at this, it
> looked best by laying out the entire invoice in Excel and then copy
> and pasting it into a Word doc as an image (since otherwise the
> columns ran over for some reason). In any case, the goal is to create
> a single page invoice that looks like a clean, professional looking
> invoice.

There are several libraries for creating Excel and Word files,
especially the XML-based formats, though I have little experience with
them.  There are also nice libraries for emitting PDF if that would work
better.

> 3. UI: I am comfortable with making GUI apps, so could use this as 
> the interface for the (somewhat computer-uncomfortable) user. But
> the less user actions necessary, the better. The emails always come
> from the same sender, and always have the same boilerplate language 
> ("Below please find your Purchase Order (PO)"), so I'm envisioning a 
> small GUI window with a single button that says "MAKE NEWEST
> INVOICE" and the user presses it and it automatically searches the
> user's email for PO # emails and creates the newest invoice. I'm
> guessing I could keep a sqlite database or flat file on the computer
> to just track what is meant by "newest", and then the output would
> have the date created in the file, so the user can be sure what has
> been invoiced.

Once you have a working script, your GUI interface would be pretty easy.
 Though it seems to me that it would be unnecessary.  This process
sounds like it should just run automatically from a cron job or something.

> I'm hoping I can write this in a couple of days.

The automated part should be possible, but personally I'd give myself a
week.


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 21:02:33 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 01:02:33 +0000
Subject: How much sanity checking is required for function inputs?
In-Reply-To: <571d09aa$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5713E52D.3060407@icloud.com>
 <1461131475.4042173.584042297.03DAB00E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57171D23.40709@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461133057.4046578.584060569.2DD34821@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57185E88.30201@yahoo.com> <57197FC3.4030701@icloud.com>
 <1461291613.433097.586174185.01BB7E37@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57199BA5.4000703@icloud.com>
 <1461302724.477236.586265777.181ACCA0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAGgTfkNz5aeS5Jo+3yc+nWjUKnfhe=0zBVNeNHUMHD6Uj9VyEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <571C2541.9050309@icloud.com> <571C30C8.5000208@gmail.com>
 <mailman.24.1461465315.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <571c5e72$0$1615$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAGgTfkOXzfdASq7h4+0n3wokpmQmTREZ7Kzd_Qbog-hZ5HM7MA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.30.1461480050.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <571d09aa$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkPyX7JVxGEXXqb1EBSORKXUYzg2_6HncZ2zqHnFJ5Ejsw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 2:08 PM Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 04:40 pm, Michael Selik wrote:
> > I think we're giving mixed messages because we're conflating
> "constants" and globals that are expected to change.
>
> When you talk about "state", that usually means "the current state of the
> program", not constants. math.pi is not "state".
>

Perhaps I was unclear. You provided an example of what I was trying to
point out.


From schilke.60 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 23:12:23 2016
From: schilke.60 at gmail.com (Derek Klinge)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 20:12:23 -0700
Subject: Optimizing Memory Allocation in a Simple, but Long Function
In-Reply-To: <CAGuRns911cXoppsS_8f657UDdCtVFhAzwY7ohafOqrsEuRq7vQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGuRns8KhOFL-a1_a=0hMP=NbktoJw78ih3j4uUSbvkF8bf3pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrQfk20EuoZVMLqKv8F5r=YyKj0nr8iNPw7DWoCEYLmYA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns86c4G5BHX_FF-OBnV_eRVKyngx_Dfp0u7hoHRT0WN++w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmq5g848-PMTgHOg7sawm+JgA5mSfwDHA-ZZgsmYr6yLCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns8LsThq3iV-bkdBbg9fZO7s61z4ggBy=YkGDqhaB_J4Xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns9uvHVBXP79X1Sp8vsW4JpWF-3g1mJoWHOq-cGog61cug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpvtP5pj_NiJNXGLmu2QCqSYZNgZjKisRRMRTtzvGHKyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHVvXxSwb8=a+b5WQfd3KeXTe8VuL4RMnwu3TSNp8129FJHJGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns911cXoppsS_8f657UDdCtVFhAzwY7ohafOqrsEuRq7vQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGuRns9byxLC3pGrkPG8m-qLTzB1+PYxLHNy2=fOHcwWR21x6A@mail.gmail.com>

Actually, I'm not trying to speed it up, just be able to handle a large
number of n.
(Thank you Chris for the suggestion to use xrange, I am on a Mac using the
stock Python 2.7)

I am looking at the number of iterations of linear approximation that are
required to get a more accurate representation.
My initial data suggest that to get 1 more digit of e (the difference
between the calculated and expected value falls under 10**-n), I need a
little more than 10 times the number of iterations of linear approximation.

I actually intend to compare these to other methods, including limit
definition that you provided, as well as the geometric series definition.

I am trying to provide some real world data for my students to prove the
point that although there are many ways to calculate a value, some are much
more efficient than others.

I tried your recommendation (Oscar) of trying a (1+1/n)**n approach, which
gave me very similar values, but when I took the difference between your
method and mine I consistently got differences of ~10**-15. Perhaps this is
due the binary representation of the decimals?

Also, it seems to me if the goal is to use the smallest value of n to get a
particular level of accuracy, changing your guess of N by doubling seems to
have a high chance of overshoot. I found that I was able to predict
relatively accurately a value of N for achieving a desired accuracy. By
this I mean, that I found that if I wanted my to be accurate to one
additional decimal place I had to multiply my value of N by approximately
10 (I found that the new N required was always < 10N +10).

Derek

On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Derek Klinge <schilke.60 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Actually, I'm not trying to speed it up, just be able to handle a large
> number of n.
> (Thank you Chris for the suggestion to use xrange, I am on a Mac using the
> stock Python 2.7)
>
> I am looking at the number of iterations of linear approximation that are
> required to get a more accurate representation.
> My initial data suggest that to get 1 more digit of e (the difference
> between the calculated and expected value falls under 10**-n), I need a
> little more than 10 times the number of iterations of linear approximation.
>
> I actually intend to compare these to other methods, including limit
> definition that you provided, as well as the geometric series definition.
>
> I am trying to provide some real world data for my students to prove the
> point that although there are many ways to calculate a value, some are much
> more efficient than others.
>
> Derek
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Oscar Benjamin <
> oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 24 April 2016 at 19:21, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 4:03 AM, Derek Klinge <schilke.60 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> Ok, from the gmail web client:
>> >
>> > Bouncing this back to the list, and removing quote markers for other
>> > people's copy/paste convenience.
>> >
>> > ## Write a method to approximate Euler's Number using Euler's Method
>> > import math
>> >
>> > class EulersNumber():
>> >     def __init__(self,n):
>> >         self.eulerSteps = n
>> >         self.e    = self.EulersMethod(self.eulerSteps)
>> >     def linearApproximation(self,x,h,d): # f(x+h)=f(x)+h*f'(x)
>> >         return x + h * d
>> >     def EulersMethod(self, numberOfSteps): # Repeate linear
>> > approximation over an even range
>> >         e = 1                                                    # e**0
>> = 1
>> >         for step in range(numberOfSteps):
>> >             e = self.linearApproximation(e,1.0/numberOfSteps,e) # if
>> > f(x)= e**x, f'(x)=f(x)
>> >         return e
>> >
>> >
>> > def EulerStepWithGuess(accuracy,guessForN):
>> >     n = guessForN
>> >     e = EulersNumber(n)
>> >     while abs(e.e - math.e) > abs(accuracy):
>> >         n +=1
>> >         e = EulersNumber(n)
>> >         print('n={} \te= {} \tdelta(e)={}'.format(n,e.e,abs(e.e -
>> math.e)))
>> >     return e
>> >
>> >
>> > def EulersNumberToAccuracy(PowerOfTen):
>> >     x = 1
>> >     theGuess = 1
>> >     thisE = EulersNumber(1)
>> >     while x <= abs(PowerOfTen):
>> >         thisE = EulerStepWithGuess(10**(-1*x),theGuess)
>> >         theGuess = thisE.eulerSteps * 10
>> >         x += 1
>> >     return thisE
>> >
>> >
>> >> To see an example of my problem try something like
>> EulersNumberToAccuracy(-10)
>>
>> Now that I can finally see your code I can see what the problem is. So
>> essentially you want to calculate Euler's number in the following way:
>>
>> e = exp(1) and exp(t) is the solution of the initial value problem
>> with ordinary differential equation dx/dt = x and initial condition
>> x(0)=1.
>>
>> So you're using Euler's method to numerically solve the ODE from t=0
>> to t=1. Which gives you an estimate for x(1) = exp(1) = e.
>>
>> Euler's method solves this by going in steps from t=0 to t=1 with some
>> step size e.g. dt = 0.1. You get a sequence of values x[n] where
>>
>>    x[0] = x(0) = 1  # initial condition
>>    x[1] = x[0] + dt*f(x[0]) = x[0] + dt*x[0]
>>    x[2] = x[1] + dt*x[1] # etc.
>>
>> In order to get to t=1 in N steps you set dt = 1/N. So simplifying
>> your code (all the classes and functions are just confusing the
>> situation here):
>>
>> N = 1000
>> dt = 1.0 / N
>> x = 1
>> for n in range(N):
>>     x = x + dt*x
>> print(x)
>>
>> When I run that I get:
>> 2.71692393224
>>
>> Okay that's great but actually you want to be able to set the accuracy
>> required and then steadily increase N until it's big enough to achieve
>> the expected accuracy so you do this:
>>
>> import math
>>
>> error = 1
>> accuracy = 1e-2
>>
>> N = 1
>> while error > accuracy:
>>     dt = 1.0 / N
>>     x = 1
>>     for n in range(N):
>>         x = x + dt*x
>>     error = abs(math.e - x)
>>     N += 1
>> print(x)
>>
>> But what happens here? You have a loop in a loop. The inner loop takes
>> n over N values. The outer loop takes N from 1 up to Nmin where Nmin
>> is the smallest value of N such that we achieve the desired accuracy.
>>
>> This is a classic case of a quadratic performance algorithm. As you
>> make the accuracy smaller you're implicitly increasing Nmin. However
>> the algorithmic performance is quadratic in Nmin i.e. O(Nmin**2). The
>> problem is the nested loops. If you have an outer loop that increases
>> the length of an inner loop by 1 at each step then you have a
>> quadratic algorithm akin to:
>>
>> # This loop is O(M**2)
>> for n in range(N):
>>     for N in range(M):
>>         # do stuff
>>
>> To see that it is quadratic see:
>>
>>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangular_number
>>
>> The simplest fix here is to replace N+=1 with N*=2. Instead of
>> increasing the number of steps by one if the accuracy is not small
>> enough then you should double the number of steps. That will give you
>> an O(Nmin) algorithm.
>>
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1/2_%2B_1/4_%2B_1/8_%2B_1/16_%2B_%E2%8B%AF
>>
>> A better method is to do a bit of algebra before putting down the code:
>>
>>     x[1] = x[0] + h*x[0] = x[0]*(1+h) = x[0]*(1+1/N) = (1+1/N)
>>     x[2] = x[1]*(1+1/N) = (1+1/N)**2
>>     ...
>>     x[n] = (1 + 1/n)**n
>>
>> So doing the loop for Euler's method is equivalent to just writing:
>>
>>     x = (1 + 1.0/N)**N
>>
>> This considered as a sequence in N is well known as a sequence that
>> converges to e. In fact this is how the number e was first discovered:
>>
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_%28mathematical_constant%29#Compound_interest
>>
>> Python can compute this much quicker than your previous version:
>>
>> N = 1
>> for _ in range(40):
>>     N *= 2
>>     print((1 + 1.0/N) ** N)
>>
>> Which runs instantly and gives:
>>
>> 2.25
>> 2.44140625
>> 2.56578451395
>> 2.63792849737
>> 2.67699012938
>> 2.69734495257
>> 2.70773901969
>> 2.71299162425
>> 2.71563200017
>> 2.71695572947
>> 2.71761848234
>> 2.71795008119
>> 2.71811593627
>> 2.71819887772
>> 2.71824035193
>> 2.7182610899
>> 2.71827145911
>> 2.71827664377
>> 2.71827923611
>> 2.71828053228
>> 2.71828118037
>> 2.71828150441
>> 2.71828166644
>> 2.71828174745
>> 2.71828178795
>> 2.71828180821
>> 2.71828181833
>> 2.7182818234
>> 2.71828182593
>> 2.71828182719
>> 2.71828182783
>> 2.71828182814
>> 2.7182818283
>> 2.71828182838
>> 2.71828182842
>> 2.71828182844
>> 2.71828182845
>> 2.71828182845
>> 2.71828182846
>> 2.71828182846
>>
>> So your method is computing the above numbers but in a slower way that
>> also has more potential for rounding error. The error here is 1e-13
>> for the last numbers in this sequence. But N=2**40 so your Euler
>> method would need approximately 10**12 iterations in your inner loop
>> to get the same result. That's going to be slow even if you don't use
>> a quadratic algorithm.
>>
>> --
>> Oscar
>> --
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>


From schilke.60 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 23:58:02 2016
From: schilke.60 at gmail.com (Derek Klinge)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 20:58:02 -0700
Subject: Optimizing Memory Allocation in a Simple, but Long Function
In-Reply-To: <CAGuRns9byxLC3pGrkPG8m-qLTzB1+PYxLHNy2=fOHcwWR21x6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGuRns8KhOFL-a1_a=0hMP=NbktoJw78ih3j4uUSbvkF8bf3pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrQfk20EuoZVMLqKv8F5r=YyKj0nr8iNPw7DWoCEYLmYA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns86c4G5BHX_FF-OBnV_eRVKyngx_Dfp0u7hoHRT0WN++w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmq5g848-PMTgHOg7sawm+JgA5mSfwDHA-ZZgsmYr6yLCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns8LsThq3iV-bkdBbg9fZO7s61z4ggBy=YkGDqhaB_J4Xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns9uvHVBXP79X1Sp8vsW4JpWF-3g1mJoWHOq-cGog61cug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpvtP5pj_NiJNXGLmu2QCqSYZNgZjKisRRMRTtzvGHKyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHVvXxSwb8=a+b5WQfd3KeXTe8VuL4RMnwu3TSNp8129FJHJGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns911cXoppsS_8f657UDdCtVFhAzwY7ohafOqrsEuRq7vQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns9byxLC3pGrkPG8m-qLTzB1+PYxLHNy2=fOHcwWR21x6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGuRns9yCR8FP9-wV5OYRKUHVtEVMsYgrtQtoB2Up-C4CTOkUw@mail.gmail.com>

So I tried the recommended limit approach and got some interesting results.

## Write a method to approximate Euler's Number using Euler's Method
import math

class EulersNumber():
def __init__(self,n):
self.n = n
self.e = 2
def linearApproximation(self,x,h,d): # f(x+h)=f(x)+h*f'(x)
return x + h * d
def EulersMethod(self): # Repeat linear approximation over an even range
e = 1 # e**0 = 1
for step in xrange(self.n):
e = self.linearApproximation(e,1.0/self.n,e) # if f(x)= e**x, f'(x)=f(x)
self.e = e
return e
def LimitMethod(self):
self.e = (1 + 1.0/self.n) ** self.n
return self.e
def SeriesMethod(self):
self.e = sum([1.0/math.factorial(i) for i in range(self.n+1)])
return self.e

I found that the pattern of an additional digit of accuracy corresponding
to 10*n did not hold as strongly for that value (I can post data if
desired). I also got some results that seem to contradict the mathematical
definition. For example try EulersNumber(10**15).LimitMethod(), the
definition places this limit at e, and yet the (python) answer is >3.035.
Please let me know if I've fouled up the implementation somehow.

Also my reasoning for writing this up as a class was to be able to get the
value of n used to generate that value e. If there is some other way to do
that, I'd be happy to try it out.

Thanks,
Derek

Derek

On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 8:12 PM, Derek Klinge <schilke.60 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Actually, I'm not trying to speed it up, just be able to handle a large
> number of n.
> (Thank you Chris for the suggestion to use xrange, I am on a Mac using the
> stock Python 2.7)
>
> I am looking at the number of iterations of linear approximation that are
> required to get a more accurate representation.
> My initial data suggest that to get 1 more digit of e (the difference
> between the calculated and expected value falls under 10**-n), I need a
> little more than 10 times the number of iterations of linear approximation.
>
> I actually intend to compare these to other methods, including limit
> definition that you provided, as well as the geometric series definition.
>
> I am trying to provide some real world data for my students to prove the
> point that although there are many ways to calculate a value, some are much
> more efficient than others.
>
> I tried your recommendation (Oscar) of trying a (1+1/n)**n approach, which
> gave me very similar values, but when I took the difference between your
> method and mine I consistently got differences of ~10**-15. Perhaps this is
> due the binary representation of the decimals?
>
> Also, it seems to me if the goal is to use the smallest value of n to get
> a particular level of accuracy, changing your guess of N by doubling seems
> to have a high chance of overshoot. I found that I was able to predict
> relatively accurately a value of N for achieving a desired accuracy. By
> this I mean, that I found that if I wanted my to be accurate to one
> additional decimal place I had to multiply my value of N by approximately
> 10 (I found that the new N required was always < 10N +10).
>
> Derek
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Derek Klinge <schilke.60 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Actually, I'm not trying to speed it up, just be able to handle a large
>> number of n.
>> (Thank you Chris for the suggestion to use xrange, I am on a Mac using
>> the stock Python 2.7)
>>
>> I am looking at the number of iterations of linear approximation that are
>> required to get a more accurate representation.
>> My initial data suggest that to get 1 more digit of e (the difference
>> between the calculated and expected value falls under 10**-n), I need a
>> little more than 10 times the number of iterations of linear approximation.
>>
>> I actually intend to compare these to other methods, including limit
>> definition that you provided, as well as the geometric series definition.
>>
>> I am trying to provide some real world data for my students to prove the
>> point that although there are many ways to calculate a value, some are much
>> more efficient than others.
>>
>> Derek
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Oscar Benjamin <
>> oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 24 April 2016 at 19:21, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 4:03 AM, Derek Klinge <schilke.60 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >> Ok, from the gmail web client:
>>> >
>>> > Bouncing this back to the list, and removing quote markers for other
>>> > people's copy/paste convenience.
>>> >
>>> > ## Write a method to approximate Euler's Number using Euler's Method
>>> > import math
>>> >
>>> > class EulersNumber():
>>> >     def __init__(self,n):
>>> >         self.eulerSteps = n
>>> >         self.e    = self.EulersMethod(self.eulerSteps)
>>> >     def linearApproximation(self,x,h,d): # f(x+h)=f(x)+h*f'(x)
>>> >         return x + h * d
>>> >     def EulersMethod(self, numberOfSteps): # Repeate linear
>>> > approximation over an even range
>>> >         e = 1                                                    #
>>> e**0 = 1
>>> >         for step in range(numberOfSteps):
>>> >             e = self.linearApproximation(e,1.0/numberOfSteps,e) # if
>>> > f(x)= e**x, f'(x)=f(x)
>>> >         return e
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > def EulerStepWithGuess(accuracy,guessForN):
>>> >     n = guessForN
>>> >     e = EulersNumber(n)
>>> >     while abs(e.e - math.e) > abs(accuracy):
>>> >         n +=1
>>> >         e = EulersNumber(n)
>>> >         print('n={} \te= {} \tdelta(e)={}'.format(n,e.e,abs(e.e -
>>> math.e)))
>>> >     return e
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > def EulersNumberToAccuracy(PowerOfTen):
>>> >     x = 1
>>> >     theGuess = 1
>>> >     thisE = EulersNumber(1)
>>> >     while x <= abs(PowerOfTen):
>>> >         thisE = EulerStepWithGuess(10**(-1*x),theGuess)
>>> >         theGuess = thisE.eulerSteps * 10
>>> >         x += 1
>>> >     return thisE
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> To see an example of my problem try something like
>>> EulersNumberToAccuracy(-10)
>>>
>>> Now that I can finally see your code I can see what the problem is. So
>>> essentially you want to calculate Euler's number in the following way:
>>>
>>> e = exp(1) and exp(t) is the solution of the initial value problem
>>> with ordinary differential equation dx/dt = x and initial condition
>>> x(0)=1.
>>>
>>> So you're using Euler's method to numerically solve the ODE from t=0
>>> to t=1. Which gives you an estimate for x(1) = exp(1) = e.
>>>
>>> Euler's method solves this by going in steps from t=0 to t=1 with some
>>> step size e.g. dt = 0.1. You get a sequence of values x[n] where
>>>
>>>    x[0] = x(0) = 1  # initial condition
>>>    x[1] = x[0] + dt*f(x[0]) = x[0] + dt*x[0]
>>>    x[2] = x[1] + dt*x[1] # etc.
>>>
>>> In order to get to t=1 in N steps you set dt = 1/N. So simplifying
>>> your code (all the classes and functions are just confusing the
>>> situation here):
>>>
>>> N = 1000
>>> dt = 1.0 / N
>>> x = 1
>>> for n in range(N):
>>>     x = x + dt*x
>>> print(x)
>>>
>>> When I run that I get:
>>> 2.71692393224
>>>
>>> Okay that's great but actually you want to be able to set the accuracy
>>> required and then steadily increase N until it's big enough to achieve
>>> the expected accuracy so you do this:
>>>
>>> import math
>>>
>>> error = 1
>>> accuracy = 1e-2
>>>
>>> N = 1
>>> while error > accuracy:
>>>     dt = 1.0 / N
>>>     x = 1
>>>     for n in range(N):
>>>         x = x + dt*x
>>>     error = abs(math.e - x)
>>>     N += 1
>>> print(x)
>>>
>>> But what happens here? You have a loop in a loop. The inner loop takes
>>> n over N values. The outer loop takes N from 1 up to Nmin where Nmin
>>> is the smallest value of N such that we achieve the desired accuracy.
>>>
>>> This is a classic case of a quadratic performance algorithm. As you
>>> make the accuracy smaller you're implicitly increasing Nmin. However
>>> the algorithmic performance is quadratic in Nmin i.e. O(Nmin**2). The
>>> problem is the nested loops. If you have an outer loop that increases
>>> the length of an inner loop by 1 at each step then you have a
>>> quadratic algorithm akin to:
>>>
>>> # This loop is O(M**2)
>>> for n in range(N):
>>>     for N in range(M):
>>>         # do stuff
>>>
>>> To see that it is quadratic see:
>>>
>>>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangular_number
>>>
>>> The simplest fix here is to replace N+=1 with N*=2. Instead of
>>> increasing the number of steps by one if the accuracy is not small
>>> enough then you should double the number of steps. That will give you
>>> an O(Nmin) algorithm.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1/2_%2B_1/4_%2B_1/8_%2B_1/16_%2B_%E2%8B%AF
>>>
>>> A better method is to do a bit of algebra before putting down the code:
>>>
>>>     x[1] = x[0] + h*x[0] = x[0]*(1+h) = x[0]*(1+1/N) = (1+1/N)
>>>     x[2] = x[1]*(1+1/N) = (1+1/N)**2
>>>     ...
>>>     x[n] = (1 + 1/n)**n
>>>
>>> So doing the loop for Euler's method is equivalent to just writing:
>>>
>>>     x = (1 + 1.0/N)**N
>>>
>>> This considered as a sequence in N is well known as a sequence that
>>> converges to e. In fact this is how the number e was first discovered:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_%28mathematical_constant%29#Compound_interest
>>>
>>> Python can compute this much quicker than your previous version:
>>>
>>> N = 1
>>> for _ in range(40):
>>>     N *= 2
>>>     print((1 + 1.0/N) ** N)
>>>
>>> Which runs instantly and gives:
>>>
>>> 2.25
>>> 2.44140625
>>> 2.56578451395
>>> 2.63792849737
>>> 2.67699012938
>>> 2.69734495257
>>> 2.70773901969
>>> 2.71299162425
>>> 2.71563200017
>>> 2.71695572947
>>> 2.71761848234
>>> 2.71795008119
>>> 2.71811593627
>>> 2.71819887772
>>> 2.71824035193
>>> 2.7182610899
>>> 2.71827145911
>>> 2.71827664377
>>> 2.71827923611
>>> 2.71828053228
>>> 2.71828118037
>>> 2.71828150441
>>> 2.71828166644
>>> 2.71828174745
>>> 2.71828178795
>>> 2.71828180821
>>> 2.71828181833
>>> 2.7182818234
>>> 2.71828182593
>>> 2.71828182719
>>> 2.71828182783
>>> 2.71828182814
>>> 2.7182818283
>>> 2.71828182838
>>> 2.71828182842
>>> 2.71828182844
>>> 2.71828182845
>>> 2.71828182845
>>> 2.71828182846
>>> 2.71828182846
>>>
>>> So your method is computing the above numbers but in a slower way that
>>> also has more potential for rounding error. The error here is 1e-13
>>> for the last numbers in this sequence. But N=2**40 so your Euler
>>> method would need approximately 10**12 iterations in your inner loop
>>> to get the same result. That's going to be slow even if you don't use
>>> a quadratic algorithm.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Oscar
>>> --
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>
>>
>>
>


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Apr 25 01:48:59 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 01:48:59 -0400
Subject: asyncio and subprocesses
In-Reply-To: <a354338b-3705-44be-b194-afd16ca4a911@googlegroups.com>
References: <a354338b-3705-44be-b194-afd16ca4a911@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nfkb4j$uqo$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/24/2016 6:07 PM, David wrote:
>
> Is this a bug in the asyncio libraries?
> Is this a fixed bug, already?  I am using Python 3.4.2 as distributed in Ubuntu Lucid, with built-in asyncio.

The people who patch asyncio do not read this list.  Either install a 
current release or try the tulip release on Pypy (its purpose is to make 
asyncio available on versions before 3.4 but should also run on 3.4.  I 
don't know if it conflicts with the included asyncio.


-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From harirammanohar at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 02:24:52 2016
From: harirammanohar at gmail.com (harirammanohar at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 23:24:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
In-Reply-To: <mailman.12.1461318640.2861.python-list@python.org>
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <nfad8p$m3h$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.9.1461237901.23626.python-list@python.org>
 <7fc52496-baf8-41ef-8f5e-76d409c6df84@googlegroups.com>
 <a6ff5e82-921c-419e-a07d-f40e46f79b8b@googlegroups.com>
 <nfcs4n$9r5$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.12.1461318640.2861.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <99c4bcaa-efc0-4127-b18e-61ea697558b5@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 3:20:53 PM UTC+5:30, Peter Otten wrote:
> harirammanohar at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> >> @peter yes here it is not xml, but real data is an xml..believe me..
> > 
> > @peter this is the similar xml i am having, you can correlate.
> > 
> > https://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-5.5-doc/appdev/web.xml.txt
> 
> This is still too vague.
> 
> If you post the code you actually tried in a small standalone script 
> together with a small sample xml file that produces the same failure as your 
> actual data I or someone might help you fix it.

yeah peter you are correct, i would have done that atleast by changing the strings, but i wasnt as here its an restricted data and the purpose...so i have taken sample xml data...ofcourse tags are missed..


From harirammanohar at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 02:29:00 2016
From: harirammanohar at gmail.com (harirammanohar at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 23:29:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
In-Reply-To: <lf57ffpdhl5.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5fuufqe81.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <991c5867-27d1-4e75-aa52-a7d47e626b74@googlegroups.com>
 <nfcqjs$guu$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.11.1461317067.2861.python-list@python.org>
 <lf57ffpdhl5.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <ee696bf4-706f-4113-bb91-d231ebf47b05@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 4:41:08 PM UTC+5:30, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> Peter Otten writes:
> 
> > harirammanohar at gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> On Thursday, April 21, 2016 at 7:03:00 PM UTC+5:30, Jussi Piitulainen
> >> wrote:
> >>> harirammanohar at gmail.com writes:
> >>> 
> >>> > On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 12:38:03 PM UTC+5:30,
> >>> > hariram... at gmail.com wrote:
> >>> >> HI All,
> >>> >> 
> >>> >> can you help me out in doing below.
> >>> >> 
> >>> >> file:
> >>> >> <start>
> >>> >>  guava
> >>> >> fruit
> >>> >> <end>
> >>> >> <start>
> >>> >>  mango
> >>> >> fruit
> >>> >> <end>
> >>> >> <start>
> >>> >>  orange
> >>> >> fruit
> >>> >> <end>
> >>> >> 
> >>> >> need to delete from start to end if it contains mango in a file...
> >>> >> 
> >>> >> output should be:
> >>> >> 
> >>> >> <start>
> >>> >>  guava
> >>> >> fruit
> >>> >> <end>
> >>> >> <start>
> >>> >>  orange
> >>> >> fruit
> >>> >> <end>
> >>> >> 
> >>> >> Thank you
> >>> >
> >>> > any one can guide me ? why xml tree parsing is not working if i have
> >>> > root.tag and root.attrib as mentioned in earlier post...
> >>> 
> >>> Assuming the real consists of lines between a start marker and end
> >>> marker, a winning plan is to collect a group of lines, deal with it, and
> >>> move on.
> >>> 
> >>> The following code implements something close to the plan. You need to
> >>> adapt it a bit to have your own source of lines and to restore the end
> >>> marker in the output and to account for your real use case and for
> >>> differences in taste and judgment. - The plan is as described above, but
> >>> there are many ways to implement it.
> >>> 
> >>> from io import StringIO
> >>> 
> >>> text = '''\
> >>> <start>
> >>>   guava
> >>> fruit
> >>> <end>
> >>> <start>
> >>>   mango
> >>> fruit
> >>> <end>
> >>> <start>
> >>>   orange
> >>> fruit
> >>> <end>
> >>> '''
> >>> 
> >>> def records(source):
> >>>     current = []
> >>>     for line in source:
> >>>         if line.startswith('<end>'):
> >>>             yield current
> >>>             current = []
> >>>         else:
> >>>             current.append(line)
> >>> 
> >>> def hasmango(record):
> >>>     return any('mango' in it for it in record)
> >>> 
> >>> for record in records(StringIO(text)):
> >>>     hasmango(record) or print(*record)
> >> 
> >> Hi,
> >> 
> >> not working....this is the output i am getting...
> >> 
> >> \
> >
> > This means that the line
> >
> >>> text = '''\
> >
> > has trailing whitespace in your copy of the script.
> 
> That's a nuisance. I wish otherwise undefined escape sequences in
> strings raised an error, similar to a stray space after a line
> continuation character.
> 
> >>  <start>
> >>    guava
> >>  fruit
> >> 
> >> <start>
> >>    orange
> >>  fruit
> >
> > Jussi forgot to add the "<end>..." line to the group.
> 
> I didn't forget. I meant what I said when I said the OP needs to adapt
> the code to (among other things) restore the end marker in the output.
> If they can't be bothered to do anything at all, it's their problem.
> 
> It was already known that this is not the actual format of the data.
> 
> > To fix this change the generator to
> >
> > def records(source):
> >     current = []
> >     for line in source:
> >         current.append(line)
> >         if line.startswith('<end>'):
> >             yield current
> >             current = []
> 
> Oops, I notice that I forgot to start a new record only on encountering
> a '<start>' line. That should probably be done, unless the format is
> intended to be exactly a sequence of "<start>\n- -\n<end>\n".
> 
> >>>     hasmango(record) or print(*record)
> >
> > The
> >
> > print(*record)
> >
> > inserts spaces between record entries (i. e. at the beginning of all
> > lines except the first) and adds a trailing newline.
> 
> Yes, I forgot about the space. Sorry about that.
> 
> The final newline was intentional. Perhaps I should have added the end
> marker there instead (given my preference to not drag it together with
> the data lines), like so:
> 
>    print(*record, sep = "", end = "<end>\n")
> 
> Or so:
> 
>    print(*record, sep = "")
>    print("<end>")
> 
> Or so:
> 
>    for line in record:
>        print(line.rstrip("\n")
>    else:
>        print("<end>")
> 
> Or:
> 
>    for line in record:
>        print(line.rstrip("\n")
>    else:
>        if record and not record[-1].strip() == "<end>":
>            print("<end>")
> 
> But all this is beside the point that to deal with the stated problem
> one might want to obtain access to a whole record *first*, then check if
> it contains "mango" in the intended way (details missing but at least
> "mango\n" as a full line counts as an occurrence), and only *then* print
> the whole record (if it doesn't contain "mango").
> 
> I can think of two other ways - one if the data can be accessed only
> once - but they seem more complicated to me. Hm, well, if it's XML, as
> stated in another branch of this thread and contrary to the form of the
> example data in this branch, there's a third way that may be good, but
> here I'm responding to a line-oriented format.
> 
> > You can avoid this by specifying the delimiters explicitly:
> >
> > if not hasmango(record):
> >     print(*record, sep="", end="")
> >
> > Even with these changes code still looks somewhat brittle...
> 
> That depends on the actual data format, and on what really is intended
> to trigger the filter. This approach is a complete waste of effort if
> there are no guarantees of things being there on their own lines, for
> example.
> 
> Ok, that "\ " not only looks brittle but actually is brittle. The one
> time I used that slash, I now regret doing so. Here's a fixed version.
> (Not sure of the significance of the number of spaces that start the
> first data line. They seem to have doubled along the way.)
> 
> text = '''<start>
>   guava
> fruit
> <end>
> <start>
>   mango
> fruit
> <end>
> <start>
>   orange
> fruit
> <end>
> '''

Hi Jussi,

i have seen you have written a definition to fulfill the requirement, can we do this same thing using xml parser, as i have failed to implement the thing using xml parser of python if the file is having the content as below...

<!DOCTYPE web-app 
    PUBLIC "-//Sun Microsystems, Inc.//DTD Web Application 2.3//EN" 
    "http://java.sun.com/dtd/web-app_2_3.dtd">

<web-app>

and entire thing works if it has as below:
<!DOCTYPE web-app 
<web-app>

what i observe is xml tree parsing is not working if http tags are there in between web-app...


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Mon Apr 25 03:17:00 2016
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 10:17:00 +0300
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5fuufqe81.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <991c5867-27d1-4e75-aa52-a7d47e626b74@googlegroups.com>
 <nfcqjs$guu$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.11.1461317067.2861.python-list@python.org>
 <lf57ffpdhl5.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <ee696bf4-706f-4113-bb91-d231ebf47b05@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <lf5d1pew42b.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

harirammanohar at gmail.com writes:

> Hi Jussi,
>
> i have seen you have written a definition to fulfill the requirement,
> can we do this same thing using xml parser, as i have failed to
> implement the thing using xml parser of python if the file is having
> the content as below...
>
> <!DOCTYPE web-app 
>     PUBLIC "-//Sun Microsystems, Inc.//DTD Web Application 2.3//EN" 
>     "http://java.sun.com/dtd/web-app_2_3.dtd">
>
> <web-app>
>
> and entire thing works if it has as below:
> <!DOCTYPE web-app 
> <web-app>
>
> what i observe is xml tree parsing is not working if http tags are
> there in between web-app...

Do you get an error message?

My guess is that the parser needs the DTD but cannot access it. There
appears to be a DTD at that address, http://java.sun.com/... (it
redirects to Oracle, who bought Sun a while ago), but something might
prevent the parser from accessing it by default. If so, the details
depend on what parser you are trying to use. It may be possible to save
that DTD as a local file and point the parser to that.

Your problem is morphing rather wildly. A previous version had namespace
declarations but no DTD or XSD if I remember right. The initial version
wasn't XML at all.

If you post (1) an actual, minimal document, (2) the actual Python
commands that fail to parse it, and (3) the error message you get,
someone will be able to help you. The content of the document need not
be more than "hello, world" level. The DOCTYPE declaration and the
outermost tags with all their attributes and namespace declarations, if
any, are important.


From palpandi111 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 03:30:58 2016
From: palpandi111 at gmail.com (Palpandi)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 00:30:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Writing different sections into a file
Message-ID: <ad6f9260-0c01-4246-9be5-84b1d2470255@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I need to write different sections into a file.
At any point of time, content can be added to any section.

I don't want keep each section into a temporary file.
What is the better way to store the contents of each section and write them into a file at the end?
What is the better datatype to achieve this?


Thanks and Regards,
Palpandi


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Apr 25 03:39:49 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:39:49 +1200
Subject: Optimizing Memory Allocation in a Simple, but Long Function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.63.1461553965.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAGuRns8KhOFL-a1_a=0hMP=NbktoJw78ih3j4uUSbvkF8bf3pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrQfk20EuoZVMLqKv8F5r=YyKj0nr8iNPw7DWoCEYLmYA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns86c4G5BHX_FF-OBnV_eRVKyngx_Dfp0u7hoHRT0WN++w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmq5g848-PMTgHOg7sawm+JgA5mSfwDHA-ZZgsmYr6yLCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns8LsThq3iV-bkdBbg9fZO7s61z4ggBy=YkGDqhaB_J4Xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns9uvHVBXP79X1Sp8vsW4JpWF-3g1mJoWHOq-cGog61cug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpvtP5pj_NiJNXGLmu2QCqSYZNgZjKisRRMRTtzvGHKyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHVvXxSwb8=a+b5WQfd3KeXTe8VuL4RMnwu3TSNp8129FJHJGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns911cXoppsS_8f657UDdCtVFhAzwY7ohafOqrsEuRq7vQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns9byxLC3pGrkPG8m-qLTzB1+PYxLHNy2=fOHcwWR21x6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.63.1461553965.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <do5vu5Fipb4U1@mid.individual.net>

Derek Klinge wrote:
> Also, it seems to me if the goal is to use the smallest value of n to get a
> particular level of accuracy, changing your guess of N by doubling seems to
> have a high chance of overshoot.

If you want to find the exact n required, once you overshoot
you could use a binary search to narrow it down.

-- 
Greg


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Apr 25 04:16:24 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 10:16:24 +0200
Subject: Optimizing Memory Allocation in a Simple, but Long Function
References: <CAGuRns8KhOFL-a1_a=0hMP=NbktoJw78ih3j4uUSbvkF8bf3pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrQfk20EuoZVMLqKv8F5r=YyKj0nr8iNPw7DWoCEYLmYA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns86c4G5BHX_FF-OBnV_eRVKyngx_Dfp0u7hoHRT0WN++w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmq5g848-PMTgHOg7sawm+JgA5mSfwDHA-ZZgsmYr6yLCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns8LsThq3iV-bkdBbg9fZO7s61z4ggBy=YkGDqhaB_J4Xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns9uvHVBXP79X1Sp8vsW4JpWF-3g1mJoWHOq-cGog61cug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpvtP5pj_NiJNXGLmu2QCqSYZNgZjKisRRMRTtzvGHKyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHVvXxSwb8=a+b5WQfd3KeXTe8VuL4RMnwu3TSNp8129FJHJGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns911cXoppsS_8f657UDdCtVFhAzwY7ohafOqrsEuRq7vQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns9byxLC3pGrkPG8m-qLTzB1+PYxLHNy2=fOHcwWR21x6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns9yCR8FP9-wV5OYRKUHVtEVMsYgrtQtoB2Up-C4CTOkUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <nfkjop$tui$1@ger.gmane.org>

Derek Klinge wrote:

> I found that the pattern of an additional digit of accuracy corresponding
> to 10*n did not hold as strongly for that value (I can post data if
> desired). I also got some results that seem to contradict the mathematical
> definition. For example try EulersNumber(10**15).LimitMethod(), the
> definition places this limit at e, and yet the (python) answer is >3.035.
> Please let me know if I've fouled up the implementation somehow.

There's nothing wrong with the formula, but floating point numbers have 
limited precision. At some point your calculation will become mostly a 
rounding error.

You'll see the surprising

>>> n = 10**14
>>> (1+1/n)**n
2.716110034087023
>>> n = 10**15
>>> (1+1/n)**n
3.035035206549262

on most modern computers with most programming langagues.
 
https://docs.python.org/3.5/tutorial/floatingpoint.html

has some introductory information.



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Apr 25 04:48:39 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 10:48:39 +0200
Subject: Writing different sections into a file
References: <ad6f9260-0c01-4246-9be5-84b1d2470255@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nfkll8$va5$1@ger.gmane.org>

Palpandi wrote:

> I need to write different sections into a file.
> At any point of time, content can be added to any section.
> 
> I don't want keep each section into a temporary file.
> What is the better way to store the contents of each section and write
> them into a file at the end? What is the better datatype to achieve this?

If the data easily fits into memory just keep it in one list per section

header = [...]
body = [...]
footer = [...]

...
body.append("something more\n")
footer[:] = ["new footer\n"]
...

with open(filename, "w") as f:
    for section in (header, body, footer):
        f.writelines(section)


If the sections are not known in advance put them into a dictionary or a 
list.

If you are free to choose the file format you may use
https://docs.python.org/dev/library/configparser.html



From harirammanohar at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 05:49:02 2016
From: harirammanohar at gmail.com (harirammanohar at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 02:49:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
In-Reply-To: <lf5d1pew42b.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5fuufqe81.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <991c5867-27d1-4e75-aa52-a7d47e626b74@googlegroups.com>
 <nfcqjs$guu$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.11.1461317067.2861.python-list@python.org>
 <lf57ffpdhl5.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <ee696bf4-706f-4113-bb91-d231ebf47b05@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5d1pew42b.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <8001ac2b-c883-4ca1-a163-d118cc82295b@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 12:47:14 PM UTC+5:30, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> harirammanohar at gmail.com writes:
> 
> > Hi Jussi,
> >
> > i have seen you have written a definition to fulfill the requirement,
> > can we do this same thing using xml parser, as i have failed to
> > implement the thing using xml parser of python if the file is having
> > the content as below...
> >
> > <!DOCTYPE web-app 
> >     PUBLIC "-//Sun Microsystems, Inc.//DTD Web Application 2.3//EN" 
> >     "http://java.sun.com/dtd/web-app_2_3.dtd">
> >
> > <web-app>
> >
> > and entire thing works if it has as below:
> > <!DOCTYPE web-app 
> > <web-app>
> >
> > what i observe is xml tree parsing is not working if http tags are
> > there in between web-app...
> 
> Do you get an error message?
> 
> My guess is that the parser needs the DTD but cannot access it. There
> appears to be a DTD at that address, http://java.sun.com/... (it
> redirects to Oracle, who bought Sun a while ago), but something might
> prevent the parser from accessing it by default. If so, the details
> depend on what parser you are trying to use. It may be possible to save
> that DTD as a local file and point the parser to that.
> 
> Your problem is morphing rather wildly. A previous version had namespace
> declarations but no DTD or XSD if I remember right. The initial version
> wasn't XML at all.
> 
> If you post (1) an actual, minimal document, (2) the actual Python
> commands that fail to parse it, and (3) the error message you get,
> someone will be able to help you. The content of the document need not
> be more than "hello, world" level. The DOCTYPE declaration and the
> outermost tags with all their attributes and namespace declarations, if
> any, are important.

Hi Jussi,

Here is an input file...sample.xml

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
<web-app xmlns="http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee"
  xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
  xsi:schemaLocation="http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee
                      http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee/web-app_3_1.xsd"
  version="3.1">
    <servlet>
      <servlet-name>controller</servlet-name>
      <servlet-class>com.mycompany.mypackage.ControllerServlet</servlet-class>
      <init-param>
        <param-name>listOrders</param-name>
        <param-value>com.mycompany.myactions.ListOrdersAction</param-value>
      </init-param>
      <init-param>
        <param-name>saveCustomer</param-name>
        <param-value>com.mycompany.myactions.SaveCustomerAction</param-value>
      </init-param>
      <load-on-startup>5</load-on-startup>
    </servlet>


    <servlet-mapping>
      <servlet-name>graph</servlet-name>
      <url-pattern>/graph</url-pattern>
    </servlet-mapping>


    <session-config>
      <session-timeout>30</session-timeout>
    </session-config>
</web-app>

--------------------------------
Here is the code:

import xml.etree.ElementTree as ET
ET.register_namespace("", "http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee")
tree = ET.parse('sample.xml')
root = tree.getroot()

for servlet in root.findall('servlet'):
        servletname = servlet.find('servlet-name').text
        if servletname == "controller":
                root.remove(servlet)

tree.write('output.xml')

This will work if <web-app> </web-app> doesnt have below...

xmlns="http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee"
  xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
  xsi:schemaLocation="http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee
                      http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee/web-app_3_1.xsd"


From harirammanohar at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 05:50:37 2016
From: harirammanohar at gmail.com (harirammanohar at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 02:50:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Writing different sections into a file
In-Reply-To: <ad6f9260-0c01-4246-9be5-84b1d2470255@googlegroups.com>
References: <ad6f9260-0c01-4246-9be5-84b1d2470255@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3c1cfc62-fb1e-4538-8c8d-0a9525297f91@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 1:01:12 PM UTC+5:30, Palpandi wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I need to write different sections into a file.
> At any point of time, content can be added to any section.
> 
> I don't want keep each section into a temporary file.
> What is the better way to store the contents of each section and write them into a file at the end?
> What is the better datatype to achieve this?
> 
> 
> Thanks and Regards,
> Palpandi

use ConfigParser..


From harirammanohar at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 05:53:02 2016
From: harirammanohar at gmail.com (harirammanohar at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 02:53:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
In-Reply-To: <8001ac2b-c883-4ca1-a163-d118cc82295b@googlegroups.com>
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5fuufqe81.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <991c5867-27d1-4e75-aa52-a7d47e626b74@googlegroups.com>
 <nfcqjs$guu$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.11.1461317067.2861.python-list@python.org>
 <lf57ffpdhl5.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <ee696bf4-706f-4113-bb91-d231ebf47b05@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5d1pew42b.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <8001ac2b-c883-4ca1-a163-d118cc82295b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cd20025d-582b-4844-9334-23b334186c9c@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 3:19:15 PM UTC+5:30, hariram... at gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 12:47:14 PM UTC+5:30, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> > harirammanohar at gmail.com writes:
> > 
> > > Hi Jussi,
> > >
> > > i have seen you have written a definition to fulfill the requirement,
> > > can we do this same thing using xml parser, as i have failed to
> > > implement the thing using xml parser of python if the file is having
> > > the content as below...
> > >
> > > <!DOCTYPE web-app 
> > >     PUBLIC "-//Sun Microsystems, Inc.//DTD Web Application 2.3//EN" 
> > >     "http://java.sun.com/dtd/web-app_2_3.dtd">
> > >
> > > <web-app>
> > >
> > > and entire thing works if it has as below:
> > > <!DOCTYPE web-app 
> > > <web-app>
> > >
> > > what i observe is xml tree parsing is not working if http tags are
> > > there in between web-app...
> > 
> > Do you get an error message?
> > 
> > My guess is that the parser needs the DTD but cannot access it. There
> > appears to be a DTD at that address, http://java.sun.com/... (it
> > redirects to Oracle, who bought Sun a while ago), but something might
> > prevent the parser from accessing it by default. If so, the details
> > depend on what parser you are trying to use. It may be possible to save
> > that DTD as a local file and point the parser to that.
> > 
> > Your problem is morphing rather wildly. A previous version had namespace
> > declarations but no DTD or XSD if I remember right. The initial version
> > wasn't XML at all.
> > 
> > If you post (1) an actual, minimal document, (2) the actual Python
> > commands that fail to parse it, and (3) the error message you get,
> > someone will be able to help you. The content of the document need not
> > be more than "hello, world" level. The DOCTYPE declaration and the
> > outermost tags with all their attributes and namespace declarations, if
> > any, are important.
> 
> Hi Jussi,
> 
> Here is an input file...sample.xml
> 
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
> <web-app xmlns="http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee"
>   xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
>   xsi:schemaLocation="http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee
>                       http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee/web-app_3_1.xsd"
>   version="3.1">
>     <servlet>
>       <servlet-name>controller</servlet-name>
>       <servlet-class>com.mycompany.mypackage.ControllerServlet</servlet-class>
>       <init-param>
>         <param-name>listOrders</param-name>
>         <param-value>com.mycompany.myactions.ListOrdersAction</param-value>
>       </init-param>
>       <init-param>
>         <param-name>saveCustomer</param-name>
>         <param-value>com.mycompany.myactions.SaveCustomerAction</param-value>
>       </init-param>
>       <load-on-startup>5</load-on-startup>
>     </servlet>
> 
> 
>     <servlet-mapping>
>       <servlet-name>graph</servlet-name>
>       <url-pattern>/graph</url-pattern>
>     </servlet-mapping>
> 
> 
>     <session-config>
>       <session-timeout>30</session-timeout>
>     </session-config>
> </web-app>
> 
> --------------------------------
> Here is the code:
> 
> import xml.etree.ElementTree as ET
> ET.register_namespace("", "http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee")
> tree = ET.parse('sample.xml')
> root = tree.getroot()
> 
> for servlet in root.findall('servlet'):
>         servletname = servlet.find('servlet-name').text
>         if servletname == "controller":
>                 root.remove(servlet)
> 
> tree.write('output.xml')
> 
> This will work if <web-app> </web-app> doesnt have below...
> 
> xmlns="http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee"
>   xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
>   xsi:schemaLocation="http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee
>                       http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee/web-app_3_1.xsd"

By the way i didnt get any error message and i am using version 3.4.3


From kliateni at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 06:04:27 2016
From: kliateni at gmail.com (Karim)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:04:27 +0200
Subject: Writing different sections into a file
In-Reply-To: <ad6f9260-0c01-4246-9be5-84b1d2470255@googlegroups.com>
References: <ad6f9260-0c01-4246-9be5-84b1d2470255@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <571DEBAB.6010503@gmail.com>



On 25/04/2016 09:30, Palpandi wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I need to write different sections into a file.
> At any point of time, content can be added to any section.
>
> I don't want keep each section into a temporary file.
> What is the better way to store the contents of each section and write them into a file at the end?
> What is the better datatype to achieve this?
>
>
> Thanks and Regards,
> Palpandi

Use Stringio:
-

from cStringIO import StringIO

content = StringIO()

# Header
content.write('; Header\n')
content.write('; Body'\n)
content.write('; Footer\n')

open('my_file', 'wb').write(content.getvalue())

-
Karim




From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Apr 25 06:13:56 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:13:56 +0200
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5fuufqe81.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <991c5867-27d1-4e75-aa52-a7d47e626b74@googlegroups.com>
 <nfcqjs$guu$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.11.1461317067.2861.python-list@python.org>
 <lf57ffpdhl5.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <ee696bf4-706f-4113-bb91-d231ebf47b05@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5d1pew42b.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <8001ac2b-c883-4ca1-a163-d118cc82295b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nfkql5$gli$1@ger.gmane.org>

harirammanohar at gmail.com wrote:

> Here is the code:

Finally ;)

> import xml.etree.ElementTree as ET
> ET.register_namespace("", "http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee")

I don't know what this does, but probably not what you expected.

> tree = ET.parse('sample.xml')
> root = tree.getroot()
> 
> for servlet in root.findall('servlet'):
>         servletname = servlet.find('servlet-name').text

I think you have to specify the namespace:

for servlet in root.findall('{http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee}servlet'):
    servletname = servlet.find(
        '{http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee}servlet-name').text

>         if servletname == "controller":

You could have added a print statement to verify that the line below is 
executed.

>                 root.remove(servlet)
> 
> tree.write('output.xml')
> 
> This will work if <web-app> </web-app> doesnt have below...
> 
> xmlns="http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee"
>   xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
>   xsi:schemaLocation="http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee
>                       http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee/web-app_3_1.xsd"





From Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com  Mon Apr 25 06:19:56 2016
From: Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com (Joaquin Alzola)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 10:19:56 +0000
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
In-Reply-To: <nfkql5$gli$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5fuufqe81.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <991c5867-27d1-4e75-aa52-a7d47e626b74@googlegroups.com>
 <nfcqjs$guu$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.11.1461317067.2861.python-list@python.org>
 <lf57ffpdhl5.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <ee696bf4-706f-4113-bb91-d231ebf47b05@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5d1pew42b.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <8001ac2b-c883-4ca1-a163-d118cc82295b@googlegroups.com>
 <nfkql5$gli$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <HE1PR07MB135650146927B98CE4240AEBF0620@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>

I put some code I did before for the xmlns:

                              xml_root = ET.ElementTree(ET.fromstring(xml_decoded)).getroot()
                              for elem in xml_root.getiterator():
                                             if('{http://request.messagepush.interfaces.comviva.com/xsd}shortCode'==elem.tag):
                                                            shortCode = (elem.text).rstrip()
                                             if('{http://request.messagepush.interfaces.comviva.com/xsd}text'==elem.tag):
                                                            send_text = (elem.text).rstrip()
                                             if('{http://request.messagepush.interfaces.comviva.com/xsd}item'==elem.tag):
                                                            subscribers = (elem.text).rstrip()
                              result_sms = send_sms(subscribers,shortCode,send_text)

Reuse it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+joaquin.alzola=lebara.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Peter Otten
Sent: 25 April 2016 11:14
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match

harirammanohar at gmail.com wrote:

> Here is the code:

Finally ;)

> import xml.etree.ElementTree as ET
> ET.register_namespace("", "http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee")

I don't know what this does, but probably not what you expected.

> tree = ET.parse('sample.xml')
> root = tree.getroot()
>
> for servlet in root.findall('servlet'):
>         servletname = servlet.find('servlet-name').text

I think you have to specify the namespace:

for servlet in root.findall('{http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee}servlet'):
    servletname = servlet.find(
        '{http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee}servlet-name').text

>         if servletname == "controller":

You could have added a print statement to verify that the line below is executed.

>                 root.remove(servlet)
>
> tree.write('output.xml')
>
> This will work if <web-app> </web-app> doesnt have below...
>
> xmlns="http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee"
>   xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
>   xsi:schemaLocation="http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee
>                       http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee/web-app_3_1.xsd"



--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
This email is confidential and may be subject to privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not copy or disclose its content but contact the sender immediately upon receipt.


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Mon Apr 25 06:24:48 2016
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 13:24:48 +0300
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5fuufqe81.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <991c5867-27d1-4e75-aa52-a7d47e626b74@googlegroups.com>
 <nfcqjs$guu$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.11.1461317067.2861.python-list@python.org>
 <lf57ffpdhl5.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <ee696bf4-706f-4113-bb91-d231ebf47b05@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5d1pew42b.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <8001ac2b-c883-4ca1-a163-d118cc82295b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <lf5poternnz.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

harirammanohar at gmail.com writes:

> On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 12:47:14 PM UTC+5:30, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
>> harirammanohar at gmail.com writes:
>> 
>> > Hi Jussi,
>> >
>> > i have seen you have written a definition to fulfill the requirement,
>> > can we do this same thing using xml parser, as i have failed to
>> > implement the thing using xml parser of python if the file is having
>> > the content as below...
>> >
>> > <!DOCTYPE web-app 
>> >     PUBLIC "-//Sun Microsystems, Inc.//DTD Web Application 2.3//EN" 
>> >     "http://java.sun.com/dtd/web-app_2_3.dtd">
>> >
>> > <web-app>
>> >
>> > and entire thing works if it has as below:
>> > <!DOCTYPE web-app 
>> > <web-app>
>> >
>> > what i observe is xml tree parsing is not working if http tags are
>> > there in between web-app...
>> 
>> Do you get an error message?
>> 
>> My guess is that the parser needs the DTD but cannot access it. There
>> appears to be a DTD at that address, http://java.sun.com/... (it
>> redirects to Oracle, who bought Sun a while ago), but something might
>> prevent the parser from accessing it by default. If so, the details
>> depend on what parser you are trying to use. It may be possible to save
>> that DTD as a local file and point the parser to that.
>> 
>> Your problem is morphing rather wildly. A previous version had namespace
>> declarations but no DTD or XSD if I remember right. The initial version
>> wasn't XML at all.
>> 
>> If you post (1) an actual, minimal document, (2) the actual Python
>> commands that fail to parse it, and (3) the error message you get,
>> someone will be able to help you. The content of the document need not
>> be more than "hello, world" level. The DOCTYPE declaration and the
>> outermost tags with all their attributes and namespace declarations, if
>> any, are important.
>
> Hi Jussi,
>
> Here is an input file...sample.xml
>
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
> <web-app xmlns="http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee"
>   xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
>   xsi:schemaLocation="http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee
>                       http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee/web-app_3_1.xsd"
>   version="3.1">
>     <servlet>
>       <servlet-name>controller</servlet-name>
>       <servlet-class>com.mycompany.mypackage.ControllerServlet</servlet-class>
>       <init-param>
>         <param-name>listOrders</param-name>
>         <param-value>com.mycompany.myactions.ListOrdersAction</param-value>
>       </init-param>
>       <init-param>
>         <param-name>saveCustomer</param-name>
>         <param-value>com.mycompany.myactions.SaveCustomerAction</param-value>
>       </init-param>
>       <load-on-startup>5</load-on-startup>
>     </servlet>
>
>
>     <servlet-mapping>
>       <servlet-name>graph</servlet-name>
>       <url-pattern>/graph</url-pattern>
>     </servlet-mapping>
>
>
>     <session-config>
>       <session-timeout>30</session-timeout>
>     </session-config>
> </web-app>
>
> --------------------------------
> Here is the code:
>
> import xml.etree.ElementTree as ET
> ET.register_namespace("", "http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee")
> tree = ET.parse('sample.xml')
> root = tree.getroot()
>
> for servlet in root.findall('servlet'):
>         servletname = servlet.find('servlet-name').text
>         if servletname == "controller":
>                 root.remove(servlet)
>
> tree.write('output.xml')
>
> This will work if <web-app> </web-app> doesnt have below...
>
> xmlns="http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee"
>   xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
>   xsi:schemaLocation="http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee
>                       http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee/web-app_3_1.xsd"

It's a namespace issue, and your method of registering a default
namespace isn't working. It's a frustrating failure mode: no error
message, no nothing :)

Try defining a namespace prefix in your method calls, and using that
prefix in element names:

ns = { 'x' : "http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee" }

for servlet in root.findall('x:servlet', ns):
    servletname = servlet.find('x:servlet-name', ns).text

I got this from here:
https://docs.python.org/3/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html#parsing-xml-with-namespaces

Note that the namespace prefix - I chose to use 'x' - has no meaning.
It's the association of the prefix that you use to the URI that is the
name of the namespace that does the job.


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Mon Apr 25 06:37:39 2016
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 13:37:39 +0300
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5fuufqe81.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <991c5867-27d1-4e75-aa52-a7d47e626b74@googlegroups.com>
 <nfcqjs$guu$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.11.1461317067.2861.python-list@python.org>
 <lf57ffpdhl5.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <ee696bf4-706f-4113-bb91-d231ebf47b05@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5d1pew42b.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <8001ac2b-c883-4ca1-a163-d118cc82295b@googlegroups.com>
 <cd20025d-582b-4844-9334-23b334186c9c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <lf5lh42rn2k.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

harirammanohar at gmail.com writes:

> On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 3:19:15 PM UTC+5:30, hariram... at gmail.com wrote:

[- -]

>> Here is the code:
>> 
>> import xml.etree.ElementTree as ET
>> ET.register_namespace("", "http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee")
>> tree = ET.parse('sample.xml')
>> root = tree.getroot()
>> 
>> for servlet in root.findall('servlet'):
>>         servletname = servlet.find('servlet-name').text
>>         if servletname == "controller":
>>                 root.remove(servlet)
>> 
>> tree.write('output.xml')

[- -]

> By the way i didnt get any error message and i am using version 3.4.3

Right. The parsing succeeds but no 'servlet' elements are found and the
loop simply has no effect. I may be missing some technical detail, but I
think the 'servlet' elements in the document are in the default
namespace (because one was declared) while your .findall and .find calls
are looking for a 'servlet' element that is in no namespace at all. I
seem to remember that there is such a distinction in XML.


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Mon Apr 25 06:39:14 2016
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 13:39:14 +0300
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5fuufqe81.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <991c5867-27d1-4e75-aa52-a7d47e626b74@googlegroups.com>
 <nfcqjs$guu$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.11.1461317067.2861.python-list@python.org>
 <lf57ffpdhl5.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <ee696bf4-706f-4113-bb91-d231ebf47b05@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5d1pew42b.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <8001ac2b-c883-4ca1-a163-d118cc82295b@googlegroups.com>
 <nfkql5$gli$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.70.1461579263.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lf5h9eqrmzx.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Peter Otten writes:

> harirammanohar at gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Here is the code:
>
> Finally ;)

:)


From harirammanohar at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 07:02:00 2016
From: harirammanohar at gmail.com (harirammanohar at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 04:02:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
In-Reply-To: <lf5h9eqrmzx.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5fuufqe81.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <991c5867-27d1-4e75-aa52-a7d47e626b74@googlegroups.com>
 <nfcqjs$guu$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.11.1461317067.2861.python-list@python.org>
 <lf57ffpdhl5.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <ee696bf4-706f-4113-bb91-d231ebf47b05@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5d1pew42b.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <8001ac2b-c883-4ca1-a163-d118cc82295b@googlegroups.com>
 <nfkql5$gli$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.70.1461579263.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <lf5h9eqrmzx.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <95f0d9a7-69ff-43bf-a856-8fa62fe8a985@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 4:09:26 PM UTC+5:30, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> Peter Otten writes:
> 
> > harirammanohar at gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> Here is the code:
> >
> > Finally ;)
> 
> :)

name space issue can be resolved registering name space i have no issue with that, only concern is xml parser has no effect when http things are added...


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Mon Apr 25 07:28:00 2016
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 14:28:00 +0300
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5fuufqe81.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <991c5867-27d1-4e75-aa52-a7d47e626b74@googlegroups.com>
 <nfcqjs$guu$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.11.1461317067.2861.python-list@python.org>
 <lf57ffpdhl5.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <ee696bf4-706f-4113-bb91-d231ebf47b05@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5d1pew42b.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <8001ac2b-c883-4ca1-a163-d118cc82295b@googlegroups.com>
 <nfkql5$gli$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.70.1461579263.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <lf5h9eqrmzx.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <95f0d9a7-69ff-43bf-a856-8fa62fe8a985@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <lf5d1perkqn.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

harirammanohar at gmail.com writes:

> On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 4:09:26 PM UTC+5:30, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
>> Peter Otten writes:
>> 
>> > harirammanohar at gmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> >> Here is the code:
>> >
>> > Finally ;)
>> 
>> :)
>
> name space issue can be resolved registering name space i have no
> issue with that, only concern is xml parser has no effect when http
> things are added...

No, the parser works fine. Your attempt to register a default namespace
didn't work. Those "http things" *are* the namespace issue!

The following version of your code works. *Try it.* It finds the servlet
element in the document object, removes it, and writes out XML text
without the servlet element. (It seems to invent another namespace
prefix. That doesn't change the meaning of the document.)

import xml.etree.ElementTree as ET

ns = { 'x' : "http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee" }

tree = ET.parse('sample.xml')
root = tree.getroot()

for servlet in root.findall('x:servlet', ns):
    servletname = servlet.find('x:servlet-name', ns).text
    if servletname == "controller":
        root.remove(servlet)

tree.write('output.xml')


From harirammanohar at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 07:40:07 2016
From: harirammanohar at gmail.com (harirammanohar at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 04:40:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
In-Reply-To: <lf5d1perkqn.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5fuufqe81.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <991c5867-27d1-4e75-aa52-a7d47e626b74@googlegroups.com>
 <nfcqjs$guu$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.11.1461317067.2861.python-list@python.org>
 <lf57ffpdhl5.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <ee696bf4-706f-4113-bb91-d231ebf47b05@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5d1pew42b.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <8001ac2b-c883-4ca1-a163-d118cc82295b@googlegroups.com>
 <nfkql5$gli$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.70.1461579263.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <lf5h9eqrmzx.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <95f0d9a7-69ff-43bf-a856-8fa62fe8a985@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5d1perkqn.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <15f2e9ff-7624-4886-bcd9-c3e9d21db328@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 4:58:15 PM UTC+5:30, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> harirammanohar at gmail.com writes:
> 
> > On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 4:09:26 PM UTC+5:30, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> >> Peter Otten writes:
> >> 
> >> > harirammanohar at gmail.com wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Here is the code:
> >> >
> >> > Finally ;)
> >> 
> >> :)
> >
> > name space issue can be resolved registering name space i have no
> > issue with that, only concern is xml parser has no effect when http
> > things are added...
> 
> No, the parser works fine. Your attempt to register a default namespace
> didn't work. Those "http things" *are* the namespace issue!
> 
> The following version of your code works. *Try it.* It finds the servlet
> element in the document object, removes it, and writes out XML text
> without the servlet element. (It seems to invent another namespace
> prefix. That doesn't change the meaning of the document.)
> 
> import xml.etree.ElementTree as ET
> 
> ns = { 'x' : "http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee" }
> 
> tree = ET.parse('sample.xml')
> root = tree.getroot()
> 
> for servlet in root.findall('x:servlet', ns):
>     servletname = servlet.find('x:servlet-name', ns).text
>     if servletname == "controller":
>         root.remove(servlet)
> 
> tree.write('output.xml')

yup its working well if i include register namespace, else i am getting ns:0  in every line of output.xml.

But its removing top line
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Mon Apr 25 08:00:09 2016
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:00:09 +0300
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5fuufqe81.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <991c5867-27d1-4e75-aa52-a7d47e626b74@googlegroups.com>
 <nfcqjs$guu$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.11.1461317067.2861.python-list@python.org>
 <lf57ffpdhl5.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <ee696bf4-706f-4113-bb91-d231ebf47b05@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5d1pew42b.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <8001ac2b-c883-4ca1-a163-d118cc82295b@googlegroups.com>
 <nfkql5$gli$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.70.1461579263.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <lf5h9eqrmzx.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <95f0d9a7-69ff-43bf-a856-8fa62fe8a985@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5d1perkqn.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <15f2e9ff-7624-4886-bcd9-c3e9d21db328@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <lf58u01sxti.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

harirammanohar at gmail.com writes:

> On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 4:58:15 PM UTC+5:30, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
>> harirammanohar at gmail.com writes:
>> 
>> > On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 4:09:26 PM UTC+5:30, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
>> >> Peter Otten writes:
>> >> 
>> >> > harirammanohar at gmail.com wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Here is the code:
>> >> >
>> >> > Finally ;)
>> >> 
>> >> :)
>> >
>> > name space issue can be resolved registering name space i have no
>> > issue with that, only concern is xml parser has no effect when http
>> > things are added...
>> 
>> No, the parser works fine. Your attempt to register a default namespace
>> didn't work. Those "http things" *are* the namespace issue!
>> 
>> The following version of your code works. *Try it.* It finds the servlet
>> element in the document object, removes it, and writes out XML text
>> without the servlet element. (It seems to invent another namespace
>> prefix. That doesn't change the meaning of the document.)
>> 
>> import xml.etree.ElementTree as ET
>> 
>> ns = { 'x' : "http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee" }
>> 
>> tree = ET.parse('sample.xml')
>> root = tree.getroot()
>> 
>> for servlet in root.findall('x:servlet', ns):
>>     servletname = servlet.find('x:servlet-name', ns).text
>>     if servletname == "controller":
>>         root.remove(servlet)
>> 
>> tree.write('output.xml')
>
> yup its working well if i include register namespace, else i am
> getting ns:0 in every line of output.xml.

That's a namespace prefix for each element name that is in the default
namespace. If the ET.register_namespace has the effect of making that
the default namespace in the output, fine, you can use it.

The important thing is that you can read your output.xml back in, using
the XML parser, and it has the intended meaning.

> But its removing top line
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>

Not a problem. You can still read your output.xml back in, using the XML
parser, and it will have the same meaning as it would have had with this
declaration.


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Apr 25 08:33:52 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 14:33:52 +0200
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5fuufqe81.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <991c5867-27d1-4e75-aa52-a7d47e626b74@googlegroups.com>
 <nfcqjs$guu$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.11.1461317067.2861.python-list@python.org>
 <lf57ffpdhl5.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <ee696bf4-706f-4113-bb91-d231ebf47b05@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5d1pew42b.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <8001ac2b-c883-4ca1-a163-d118cc82295b@googlegroups.com>
 <nfkql5$gli$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.70.1461579263.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <lf5h9eqrmzx.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <95f0d9a7-69ff-43bf-a856-8fa62fe8a985@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5d1perkqn.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <15f2e9ff-7624-4886-bcd9-c3e9d21db328@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nfl2ri$o7h$1@ger.gmane.org>

harirammanohar at gmail.com wrote:

>> tree.write('output.xml')
> 
> yup its working well if i include register namespace, else i am getting
> ns:0  in every line of output.xml.
> 
> But its removing top line
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>

The write() method allows you to specify an encoding and/or require an xml 
declaration:

https://docs.python.org/dev/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html#xml.etree.ElementTree.ElementTree.write



From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 09:45:55 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 14:45:55 +0100
Subject: Optimizing Memory Allocation in a Simple, but Long Function
In-Reply-To: <do5vu5Fipb4U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <CAGuRns8KhOFL-a1_a=0hMP=NbktoJw78ih3j4uUSbvkF8bf3pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrQfk20EuoZVMLqKv8F5r=YyKj0nr8iNPw7DWoCEYLmYA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns86c4G5BHX_FF-OBnV_eRVKyngx_Dfp0u7hoHRT0WN++w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmq5g848-PMTgHOg7sawm+JgA5mSfwDHA-ZZgsmYr6yLCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns8LsThq3iV-bkdBbg9fZO7s61z4ggBy=YkGDqhaB_J4Xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns9uvHVBXP79X1Sp8vsW4JpWF-3g1mJoWHOq-cGog61cug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpvtP5pj_NiJNXGLmu2QCqSYZNgZjKisRRMRTtzvGHKyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHVvXxSwb8=a+b5WQfd3KeXTe8VuL4RMnwu3TSNp8129FJHJGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns911cXoppsS_8f657UDdCtVFhAzwY7ohafOqrsEuRq7vQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns9byxLC3pGrkPG8m-qLTzB1+PYxLHNy2=fOHcwWR21x6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.63.1461553965.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <do5vu5Fipb4U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxTU2k74S_hG=RtsEx=5uTk34Ppf4t2PhqBsat39Kv3ihQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 25 April 2016 at 08:39, Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
> Derek Klinge wrote:
>>
>> Also, it seems to me if the goal is to use the smallest value of n to get
>> a
>> particular level of accuracy, changing your guess of N by doubling seems
>> to
>> have a high chance of overshoot.
>
>
> If you want to find the exact n required, once you overshoot
> you could use a binary search to narrow it down.

Also you can calculate the truncation error for Euler's method. Since

   f(t) = f(t0) + f'(t0)*(t - t0) + (1/2)f''(t0)*(t - t0)**2 + O((t - t0)**3)

Euler's method just uses the first two terms so

    x[n+1] = x[n] + dt*f(x[n])

the next term would be

   (1/2)*f'(x[n])*dt**2

Since in your case f'(x) = x and dt = 1/N that's

    (1/2)*x[n]*(1/N)**2

As a relative error (divide by x[n]) that's

    (1/2)*(1/N)**2

Let's add the relative error from N steps to get

    N*(1/2)*(1/N)**2 = 1/(2*N)

So the relative error integrating from 0 to 1 with N steps is 1/(2*N).
If we want a relative error of epsilon then the number of steps needed
is 1/(2*epsilon).

That is to say that for a relative error of 1e-4 we need N =
1/(2*1e-4) = 1e4/2 = 5e3 = 5000.

>>> import math
>>> N = 5000
>>> error = math.e - (1 + 1.0/N)**N
>>> relative_error = error / math.e
>>> relative_error
9.998167027596845e-05

Which is approximately 1e-4 as required.

--
Oscar


From lepto.python at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 10:13:56 2016
From: lepto.python at gmail.com (oyster)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 22:13:56 +0800
Subject: what is the difference between one-line-operation and 2-line-operation
Message-ID: <CACW-qXU_b9G3016m12FgqgUEhGE-QkioiXacQOCAHrRrVzbQPg@mail.gmail.com>

for a simple code
[code]
vexList = [1, 2, 3]
print('vexList', list(vexList))

vexList=map(lambda e: e+1, vexList)
print('vexList', list(vexList))

vexList = list(vexList)
print('vexList', list(vexList))

vexList=map(lambda e: e*2,vexList)
print('vexList', list(vexList))
[/code]


py27 says
[quote]
('vexList', [1, 2, 3])
('vexList', [2, 3, 4])
('vexList', [2, 3, 4])
('vexList', [4, 6, 8])
[/quote]

but py34 says
[quote]
vexList [1, 2, 3]
vexList [2, 3, 4]
vexList []
vexList []
[/quote]

if I change the above code in to one line
[code]
vexList = [1, 2, 3]
print('vexList', list(vexList))

vexList=list(map(lambda e: e+1, vexList))
print('vexList', list(vexList))


vexList=map(lambda e: e*2,vexList)
print('vexList', list(vexList))
[/code]

then py27 and py34 get same verList
[quote]
('vexList', [1, 2, 3])
('vexList', [2, 3, 4])
('vexList', [4, 6, 8])
[/quote]

I found 'filter' function behaves likely

I found
type(map(lambda e: e, vexList))  is <type 'list'> in py2
type(map(lambda e: e, vexList)) is <class 'map'> in py3

so, what produces this difference between py2 and py3 in nature? is
there more examples? where can I find the text abiut his difference?

Thanks


From schilke.60 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 10:35:54 2016
From: schilke.60 at gmail.com (Derek Klinge)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 14:35:54 +0000
Subject: Optimizing Memory Allocation in a Simple, but Long Function
In-Reply-To: <CAHVvXxTU2k74S_hG=RtsEx=5uTk34Ppf4t2PhqBsat39Kv3ihQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGuRns8KhOFL-a1_a=0hMP=NbktoJw78ih3j4uUSbvkF8bf3pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrQfk20EuoZVMLqKv8F5r=YyKj0nr8iNPw7DWoCEYLmYA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns86c4G5BHX_FF-OBnV_eRVKyngx_Dfp0u7hoHRT0WN++w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmq5g848-PMTgHOg7sawm+JgA5mSfwDHA-ZZgsmYr6yLCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns8LsThq3iV-bkdBbg9fZO7s61z4ggBy=YkGDqhaB_J4Xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns9uvHVBXP79X1Sp8vsW4JpWF-3g1mJoWHOq-cGog61cug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpvtP5pj_NiJNXGLmu2QCqSYZNgZjKisRRMRTtzvGHKyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHVvXxSwb8=a+b5WQfd3KeXTe8VuL4RMnwu3TSNp8129FJHJGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns911cXoppsS_8f657UDdCtVFhAzwY7ohafOqrsEuRq7vQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns9byxLC3pGrkPG8m-qLTzB1+PYxLHNy2=fOHcwWR21x6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.63.1461553965.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <do5vu5Fipb4U1@mid.individual.net>
 <CAHVvXxTU2k74S_hG=RtsEx=5uTk34Ppf4t2PhqBsat39Kv3ihQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGuRns9w1bdScXdnhhD_COKftVaRm48y+RFMsCrBWF=mJcKnbw@mail.gmail.com>

A couple thoughts. I think my original approach would be faster than binary
search for finding the minimum value of N needed to get a decimal level of
absolute accuracy from Euler's number. Here is my reasoning:
EulerlersNumber(13).LimitMethod() - math.e < .1 and
EulersNumber(135).LimitMethod - math.e < .01. N increased by a little more
than a factor of 10. My method would use 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, and 135
as guesses after 13. Using the double + binary search the guesses would be
26, 52, 104, 208, 156, 130, 143, 137, 134, 136, and then 136 after using
the information that n=13 gives an tolerance of < .1. If the trend holds,
then to get the next decimal of accuracy, you would need to do less than 10
searches each time. When I was using my linear approximation method I found
that I never had to do more than 10 additional guesses of N to get the next
digit of accuracy. When I was using EulersMethod() I found this trend held
for as long as I would allow my computer to do the calculations (though
accuracy to 10**-10).

What I find very interesting is that although the limit method is
mathematically equivalent to the linear approximation method, they give
different results, given sufficiently high values of N (at least in
Python). The limit method does not follow my predictions as accurately,
which leads to the question of whether or not the phenomenon I observed was
an artifact of rounding error or not.

Also, my explicit goal is to be able to handle large numbers of N, and to
reduce rounding error to a minimum. Using the fractions module to perform
the limit method with rational numbers rather than binary represented
decimals and got an error that the integer was too long to convert to float
and even when using smaller values of n (10**14) I seem to get values that
are not the same as when using decimals. It seems to me (I'm just thinking
about this at a low level and haven't written out any math to justify it
yet) that because the linear approximation method only multiplies and adds
the rounding error is smaller than in the limit method where numbers are
being taken to exponents that have rounding errors.

Although I see the value of relative error, I am just as interested in
absolute error (though admittedly they are directly related values).

Are there modules or libraries I can/should use to minimize rounding error
and use very large values of N and get an accurate answer? How does the
math module calculate the vale of e?

Thanks,
Derek

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 6:49 AM Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 25 April 2016 at 08:39, Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz>
> wrote:
> > Derek Klinge wrote:
> >>
> >> Also, it seems to me if the goal is to use the smallest value of n to
> get
> >> a
> >> particular level of accuracy, changing your guess of N by doubling seems
> >> to
> >> have a high chance of overshoot.
> >
> >
> > If you want to find the exact n required, once you overshoot
> > you could use a binary search to narrow it down.
>
> Also you can calculate the truncation error for Euler's method. Since
>
>    f(t) = f(t0) + f'(t0)*(t - t0) + (1/2)f''(t0)*(t - t0)**2 + O((t -
> t0)**3)
>
> Euler's method just uses the first two terms so
>
>     x[n+1] = x[n] + dt*f(x[n])
>
> the next term would be
>
>    (1/2)*f'(x[n])*dt**2
>
> Since in your case f'(x) = x and dt = 1/N that's
>
>     (1/2)*x[n]*(1/N)**2
>
> As a relative error (divide by x[n]) that's
>
>     (1/2)*(1/N)**2
>
> Let's add the relative error from N steps to get
>
>     N*(1/2)*(1/N)**2 = 1/(2*N)
>
> So the relative error integrating from 0 to 1 with N steps is 1/(2*N).
> If we want a relative error of epsilon then the number of steps needed
> is 1/(2*epsilon).
>
> That is to say that for a relative error of 1e-4 we need N =
> 1/(2*1e-4) = 1e4/2 = 5e3 = 5000.
>
> >>> import math
> >>> N = 5000
> >>> error = math.e - (1 + 1.0/N)**N
> >>> relative_error = error / math.e
> >>> relative_error
> 9.998167027596845e-05
>
> Which is approximately 1e-4 as required.
>
> --
> Oscar
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 10:39:45 2016
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 14:39:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Scraping email to make invoice
References: <e75f5681-6e6f-424f-8697-b01c94d0f3ce@googlegroups.com>
 <571D548D.2040500@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <nfla7h$bbk$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2016-04-24, Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 04/24/2016 12:58 PM, CM wrote:
>
>> 1. INPUT: What's the best way to scrape an email like this? The
>>    email is to a Gmail account, and the content shows up in the
>>    email as a series of basically 6x7 tables (HTML?), one table per
>>    PO number/task. I know if the freelancer were to copy and paste
>>    the whole set of tables into a text file and save it as plain
>>    text, Python could easily scrape that file, but I'd much prefer
>>    to save the user those steps. Is there a relatively easy way to
>>    go from the Gmail email to generating the invoice directly? (I
>>    know there is, but wasn't sure what is state of the art these
>>    days).
>
> I would configure Gmail to allow IMAP access (you'll have to set up a
> special password for this most likely),

Your normal gmail password is used for IMAP.

> and then use an imap library from Python to directly find the
> relevant messages and access the email message body.  If the body is
> HTML-formatted (sounds like it is) I would use either BeautifulSoup
> or lxml to parse it and get out the relevant information.

Warning: don't use the basic imaplib.  IMAP is a miserable protocol,
and imap lib is too thin a wrapper. It'll make you bleed from the ears
and wish you were dead.  Use imapclient or imaplib2.  I've used both
(with Gmail's IMAP server), and IMO both are pretty good.  Either one
is miles ahead of plain imaplib.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! But they went to MARS
                                  at               around 1953!!
                              gmail.com            



From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Mon Apr 25 10:42:35 2016
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 17:42:35 +0300
Subject: what is the difference between one-line-operation and
 2-line-operation
References: <CACW-qXU_b9G3016m12FgqgUEhGE-QkioiXacQOCAHrRrVzbQPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.78.1461593638.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lf5d1pdvjfo.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

oyster writes:

- -

> I found
> type(map(lambda e: e, vexList))  is <type 'list'> in py2
> type(map(lambda e: e, vexList)) is <class 'map'> in py3
>
> so, what produces this difference between py2 and py3 in nature? is
> there more examples? where can I find the text abiut his difference?

Yes, there are more ways obtain objects that behave like the map and
filter objects on Python 3. One similar to map and filter is enumerate.

Try iter('foo'), iter((1,2,4)), ..., iter(range(3)). This is used
implicitly by certain Python constructions. Note that range objects
themselves are different.

Open a file for reading: open('example.txt'). You get lines out.

A generator expression: ( "{}".format(x) for x in (1,2,3) ), where the
outer parentheses are for grouping and not always needed.

Define and call a generator function:

def foo(o):
   yield '('
   yield o
   yield ')'

x = foo(31)

'(-31-)' == '-'.join(foo('31'))

You can ask for the next element from any of these, or collect their
remaining elements in a list or tuple, or otherwise iterate or map over
them. They will be consumed when you do so, otherwise they just wait.

They can be huge, even infinite. Best not to collect their contents in a
data structure if they are huge. They trade space for time.


From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 10:44:37 2016
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 14:44:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Writing different sections into a file
References: <ad6f9260-0c01-4246-9be5-84b1d2470255@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nflagl$bbk$2@ger.gmane.org>

On 2016-04-25, Palpandi <palpandi111 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I need to write different sections into a file.  At any point of
> time, content can be added to any section.
>
> I don't want keep each section into a temporary file.  What is the
> better way to store the contents of each section and write them into
> a file at the end?

What makes you think a temporary file isn't best?

> What is the better datatype to achieve this?

When in doubt, try the simplest approach first:

Use a string (or byte-string if it's not text) for each of the header,
body, and footer.  Append data to each as desired and then write them
out to a file when you're done.

If that's not workable, explain why, and we can tell you what to try
next (probably a stringio for each section, or a list of strings or
byte-strings for each section, or temporary files).

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Wait ... is this a FUN
                                  at               THING or the END of LIFE in
                              gmail.com            Petticoat Junction??



From torriem at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 10:46:31 2016
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 08:46:31 -0600
Subject: what is the difference between one-line-operation and
 2-line-operation
In-Reply-To: <CACW-qXU_b9G3016m12FgqgUEhGE-QkioiXacQOCAHrRrVzbQPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACW-qXU_b9G3016m12FgqgUEhGE-QkioiXacQOCAHrRrVzbQPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571E2DC7.6090902@gmail.com>

On 04/25/2016 08:13 AM, oyster wrote:
> so, what produces this difference between py2 and py3 in nature? is
> there more examples? where can I find the text abiut his difference?

One thing I see is that both your py2 and py3 examples are treating
print as a function.  It's only a function in Py3. By default in Py2
it's a statement.  You passed it a tuple, and that's what it prints.  If
you add:

from __future__ import print_function

then py2 and py3 will behave the same in regards to print.



From subhabangalore at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 10:56:52 2016
From: subhabangalore at gmail.com (subhabangalore at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 07:56:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Question on List processing
Message-ID: <d0b4c737-3922-4b49-8f69-2564ba472950@googlegroups.com>

Dear Group,

I have a list of tuples, as follows,

list1=[u"('koteeswaram/BHPERSN engaged/NA himself/NA in/NA various/NA philanthropic/NA activities/NA  ','class1')", u"('koteeswaram/BHPERSN is/NA a/NA very/NA nice/NA person/NA  ','class1')", u"('koteeswaram/BHPERSN came/NA to/NA mumbai/LOC but/NA could/NA not/NA attend/NA the/ARTDEF board/NA meeting/NA  ','class1')", u"('the/ARTDEF people/NA of/NA the/ARTDEF company ABCOMP did/NA not/NA vote/NA for/NA koteeswaram/LOC  ','class2')", u"('the/ARTDEF director AHT of/NA the/ARTDEF company,/NA koteeswaram/BHPERSN had/NA been/NA advised/NA to/NA take/NA rest/NA for/NA a/NA while/NA  ','class2')", u"('animesh/BHPERSN chauhan/BHPERSN arrived/NA by/NA his/PRNM3PAS private/NA aircraft/NA in/NA mumbai/LOC  ','class2')", u"('animesh/BHPERSN chauhan/BHPERSN met/NA the/ARTDEF prime/HPLPERST minister/AHT of/NA india/LOCC over/NA some/NA issues/NA  ','class2')", u"('animesh/BHPERSN chauhan/BHPERSN is/NA trying/NA to/NA set/NA up/NA a/NA plant/NA in/NA uk/LOCC  ','class3')", u"('animesh/BHPERSN chauhan/BHPERSN is/NA trying/NA to/NA launch/NA a/NA new/ABCOMP office/AHT in/NA burdwan/LOC  ','class3')", u"('animesh/BHPERSN chauhan/BHPERSN is/NA trying/NA to/NA work/NA out/NA the/ARTDEF launch/NA of/NA a/NA new/ABCOMP product/NA in/NA india/LOCC  ','class3')"]

I want to make it like,

[('koteeswaram/BHPERSN engaged/NA himself/NA in/NA various/NA philanthropic/NA activities/NA','class1'),
 ('koteeswaram/BHPERSN is/NA a/NA very/NA nice/NA person/NA  ','class1'), ('koteeswaram/BHPERSN came/NA to/NA mumbai/LOC but/NA could/NA not/NA attend/NA the/ARTDEF board/NA meeting/NA','class1'), ('the/ARTDEF people/NA of/NA the/ARTDEF company ABCOMP did/NA not/NA vote/NA for/NA koteeswaram/LOC  ','class2'),           ('the/ARTDEF director AHT of/NA the/ARTDEF company,/NA koteeswaram/BHPERSN had/NA been/NA advised/NA to/NA take/NA rest/NA for/NA a/NA while/NA  ','class2'), ('animesh/BHPERSN chauhan/BHPERSN arrived/NA by/NA his/PRNM3PAS private/NA aircraft/NA in/NA mumbai/LOC','class2'), ('animesh/BHPERSN chauhan/BHPERSN met/NA the/ARTDEF prime/HPLPERST minister/AHT of/NA india/LOCC over/NA some/NA issues/NA','class2'), ('animesh/BHPERSN chauhan/BHPERSN is/NA trying/NA to/NA set/NA up/NA a/NA plant/NA in/NA uk/LOCC','class3'), ('animesh/BHPERSN chauhan/BHPERSN is/NA trying/NA to/NA launch/NA a/NA new/ABCOMP office/AHT in/NA burdwan/LOC','class3'),
('animesh/BHPERSN chauhan/BHPERSN is/NA trying/NA to/NA work/NA out/NA the/ARTDEF launch/NA of/NA a/NA new/ABCOMP product/NA in/NA india/LOCC','class3')]

I tried to make it as follows,
list2=[]
for i in train_sents:
	a1=unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', i).encode('ascii','ignore')
	a2=a1.replace('"',"")
	list2.append(a2)

and,

for i in list1:
	a3=i[1:-1]
	list2.append(a3)


but not helping.
If any one may kindly suggest how may I approach it?

Thanks in Advance,
Regards,
Subhabrata Banerjee. 





From walters.justin01 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 11:00:05 2016
From: walters.justin01 at gmail.com (justin walters)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 08:00:05 -0700
Subject: Writing different sections into a file
In-Reply-To: <571DEBAB.6010503@gmail.com>
References: <ad6f9260-0c01-4246-9be5-84b1d2470255@googlegroups.com>
 <571DEBAB.6010503@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO1D73FVZnDUOfjhoEM1ddmBJ-Ls8hyBRj+AyLYqbM8b9yT2OQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 3:04 AM, Karim <kliateni at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 25/04/2016 09:30, Palpandi wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I need to write different sections into a file.
>> At any point of time, content can be added to any section.
>>
>> I don't want keep each section into a temporary file.
>> What is the better way to store the contents of each section and write
>> them into a file at the end?
>> What is the better datatype to achieve this?
>>
>>
>> Thanks and Regards,
>> Palpandi
>>
>
> Use Stringio:
> -
>
> from cStringIO import StringIO
>
> content = StringIO()
>
> # Header
> content.write('; Header\n')
> content.write('; Body'\n)
> content.write('; Footer\n')
>
> open('my_file', 'wb').write(content.getvalue())
>
> -
> Karim
>
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


All of the other answers are great too. I was thinking that you could
format the text file to have dividers for each section. For instance it may
look something like this:

Header
Lorem ipsum....
<--->
Body
Lorem ipsum...
<--->
Footer
Lorem ipsum..

Then, you could create a list of sections like so:

file = open('file.txt', 'r').read()

section_list = file.split('<--->')

print(section_list[0])

>>>
Header
Lorem ipsum...

Say you wanted to get really fancy, you could even format the file to have
named sections like so:

<section name="Header">
    <content>Lorem ipsum...</content>
</section>
<section name="Body">
    <content>Lorem ipsum...</content>
</section>
<section name="footer">
    <content>Lorem ipsum...</content>
</section>

Then you can use the xmlparser library to parse the file into an xml object.


Alternatively, you could also use JSON formatting:

{
    sections: {
        header: {
            title: "header",
            content: "Lorem ipsum..."
        },
        body: {
            title: "Body",
            content: "Lorem ipsum..."
        },
        footer: {
            title: "Footer",
            content: "Lorem ipsum..."
        }
    }
}

I hope this helps.


From kliateni at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 11:12:59 2016
From: kliateni at gmail.com (Karim)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 17:12:59 +0200
Subject: Writing different sections into a file
In-Reply-To: <CAO1D73FVZnDUOfjhoEM1ddmBJ-Ls8hyBRj+AyLYqbM8b9yT2OQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ad6f9260-0c01-4246-9be5-84b1d2470255@googlegroups.com>
 <571DEBAB.6010503@gmail.com>
 <CAO1D73FVZnDUOfjhoEM1ddmBJ-Ls8hyBRj+AyLYqbM8b9yT2OQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571E33FB.3080200@gmail.com>



On 25/04/2016 17:00, justin walters wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 3:04 AM, Karim <kliateni at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 25/04/2016 09:30, Palpandi wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I need to write different sections into a file.
>>> At any point of time, content can be added to any section.
>>>
>>> I don't want keep each section into a temporary file.
>>> What is the better way to store the contents of each section and write
>>> them into a file at the end?
>>> What is the better datatype to achieve this?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks and Regards,
>>> Palpandi
>>>
>> Use Stringio:
>> -
>>
>> from cStringIO import StringIO
>>
>> content = StringIO()
>>
>> # Header
>> content.write('; Header\n')
>> content.write('; Body'\n)
>> content.write('; Footer\n')
>>
>> open('my_file', 'wb').write(content.getvalue())
>>
>> -
>> Karim
>>
>>
>> --
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
> All of the other answers are great too. I was thinking that you could
> format the text file to have dividers for each section. For instance it may
> look something like this:
>
> Header
> Lorem ipsum....
> <--->
> Body
> Lorem ipsum...
> <--->
> Footer
> Lorem ipsum..
>
> Then, you could create a list of sections like so:
>
> file = open('file.txt', 'r').read()
>
> section_list = file.split('<--->')
>
> print(section_list[0])
>
> Header
> Lorem ipsum...
>
> Say you wanted to get really fancy, you could even format the file to have
> named sections like so:
>
> <section name="Header">
>      <content>Lorem ipsum...</content>
> </section>
> <section name="Body">
>      <content>Lorem ipsum...</content>
> </section>
> <section name="footer">
>      <content>Lorem ipsum...</content>
> </section>
>
> Then you can use the xmlparser library to parse the file into an xml object.
>
>
> Alternatively, you could also use JSON formatting:
>
> {
>      sections: {
>          header: {
>              title: "header",
>              content: "Lorem ipsum..."
>          },
>          body: {
>              title: "Body",
>              content: "Lorem ipsum..."
>          },
>          footer: {
>              title: "Footer",
>              content: "Lorem ipsum..."
>          }
>      }
> }
>
> I hope this helps.

Great ideas!



From gherron at digipen.edu  Mon Apr 25 11:42:00 2016
From: gherron at digipen.edu (Gary Herron)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 08:42:00 -0700
Subject: what is the difference between one-line-operation and
 2-line-operation
In-Reply-To: <CACW-qXU_b9G3016m12FgqgUEhGE-QkioiXacQOCAHrRrVzbQPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACW-qXU_b9G3016m12FgqgUEhGE-QkioiXacQOCAHrRrVzbQPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571E3AC8.8020209@digipen.edu>

On 04/25/2016 07:13 AM, oyster wrote:
> for a simple code
> [code]
> vexList = [1, 2, 3]
> print('vexList', list(vexList))
>
> vexList=map(lambda e: e+1, vexList)
> print('vexList', list(vexList))
>
> vexList = list(vexList)
> print('vexList', list(vexList))
>
> vexList=map(lambda e: e*2,vexList)
> print('vexList', list(vexList))
> [/code]
>
>
> py27 says
> [quote]
> ('vexList', [1, 2, 3])
> ('vexList', [2, 3, 4])
> ('vexList', [2, 3, 4])
> ('vexList', [4, 6, 8])
> [/quote]
>
> but py34 says
> [quote]
> vexList [1, 2, 3]
> vexList [2, 3, 4]
> vexList []
> vexList []
> [/quote]

The difference in behaviour between Python2 and Python3 is the map 
function.  In P2 it returned a list, while in P3 it returns an 
iterator.  Your code runs through that iterator twice with the list() 
function.  The first time it gets the elements of the list as expected, 
but the second time, the iterator is exhausted and returns no objects.

A simpler example: "b" is a map object (iterator), then list(b) is run 
twice.

 >>> a = [1,2,3]
 >>> b = map(lambda e: e+1, a)
 >>> b
<map object at 0x7f3840a0fc88>
 >>> list(b)
[2, 3, 4]
 >>> list(b)
[]


I hope that helps.

Gary Herron

-- 
Dr. Gary Herron
Professor of Computer Science
DigiPen Institute of Technology
(425) 895-4418



From liyang1025 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 11:44:26 2016
From: liyang1025 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?5p2O5rSL?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 08:44:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: encoding issue help
Message-ID: <12e04989-6429-435a-a118-bab0c9a833d8@googlegroups.com>

hi:
  i want to decompress the string
 "\x1F\x8B\x08\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00UP]k\xC3 \x14\xFD+\xC3\xE7\xCD\xA8\xF9X\xE2\xEBX\xA1\x0CF\x1F\xBA\xEE%\x10\xAC\xB1\xAD\xC4h\x88f%\x8C\xFD\xF7]\x1B\xDA\xAD\xF8\xE29\xE7z\xEE9~#\xE7\x11G\xAF\xBB\x1C=\x22\xDFv_j\x04H+@\xBAW\x1A\xEEe\x91>SF\x18+i\x9Ef\x04\x84\xA1;\x02/]\x8F\xA5Q\xC2\xF6\xC2\x075\xE2\xFE8\x89\xB1m\xA4\x85\x89V\xFB\xC1\x88\x19\xA6\xDE\xB6\x1Fe\xB6y\x08\xCA\x87\xA7N\xCD\x1E\xC4^H\x10\xF6\x19'\x19/\x14g\x92K\xC1[\x06\xCA\xB2\x9Ca\x82K@\x07m\x8F\x17B\x98\xC1\xD7\xC9a2\xA6\xD9W\xA4j\xBAI\x9E\x84\xAB\x93\x7F\x80g\x18N\x9D,\xEB\xEA\x84fyJIAI\xCE'\xAF\xC6:\xB9\x0B\xE0\xF6\xDA\xA8\x95qg0\x8FE\x87Ke\x86iQbZU\x98\x924\xD6\x1C];\xC9\xB0n\xA3Jhd\x8C\x08\xB7\xCF\x1AN\xCE\xAA-|R\x94\xB3\x82\xA6\xE0\x902v\x19\xB4*l\xE7!*\x9F\xEB\xD5\x1A\x88\xB3>\xE8\xBF\x85\xC1u\xCA\x22n\xA1\x11\xA4\x99wj|\x17\x8B\x0F\x86\xF2\x8D\x8C\xE5\x85\x0Cn\x9Co\xDBt\xEF\xF5\xF2X\x1A\xADlx9\x09k\x95\xB9\x9A\xC8+DtI\xB0\xD116\xFA\xF9\x05\xBAs\xAET\xE0\x01\x00\x00"

this string is compress gzip if i save this string in  the file and read file  to decompress  that is not work ,otherwise  i use the python interpreter mode and paste the string in the command line the code is work

i suppose this is the character-set issue but i can't fix it !so i hope someone  give me a solution!
my cods blow ,and the work environment is linux 
import zlib

file_obj=open("compress_data.log","r+")

for gz_data in file_obj.readlines():

           print gz_data

           decompressed_data = zlib.decompress(gz_data, 16+zlib.MAX_WBITS)

           print decompressed_data


From mr.eightnoteight at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 11:46:10 2016
From: mr.eightnoteight at gmail.com (srinivas devaki)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 21:16:10 +0530
Subject: how to set nth bit of large binary file.
Message-ID: <CACs7g=BecX3548Obk=shD7-otmJMY0i=3a3Zj7y50Lzv=qSPRQ@mail.gmail.com>

I use aria2c to download files, aria2c has this feature of allocating the
memory to file before downloading the file and then it will download using
multiple connections so filling the data into this file concurrently.

So i wonder how to do it. I found a way to do that from here
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3407505/writing-binary-data-to-middle-of-a-sparse-file

but it only supports if you are constructing the data in file from scratch
and aria2c can resume the download too i.e not from scratch.

-- 
Regards
Srinivas Devaki
Junior (3rd yr) student at Indian School of Mines,(IIT Dhanbad)
Computer Science and Engineering Department
ph: +91 9491 383 249
telegram_id: @eightnoteight


From sourav524.itscient at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 12:28:48 2016
From: sourav524.itscient at gmail.com (sourav524.itscient at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 09:28:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: HOT REQ Closable Position :Websphere message broker at Edison, NJ
Message-ID: <751df735-463b-466c-965d-2e74d6880edb@googlegroups.com>


Hello Associates,
Please go through the below job description and let me know your interest.
 Please revert me:  Sourav.P at itscient.com or sourav524.itscient at gmail.com.

Position: Websphere Message Broker
Location:Edison , NJ
Duration: 6+ MONTHS
 

Requisition Details:
Engineer with experience on working with the new generation messaging platforms such as RabbitMQ, ActiveMQ, JMS,AMQP. Cloudscale Runtime Engineering team is responsible for the Engineering and Delivery of Next Generation Light weight Open Standards-based Platforms for Application Development/Deployment, Caching, Messaging, and Integration Services in client Private Cloud. The responsibilities of the team include delivery and adoption of the Next Generation Runtime Platforms for strategic programs across client Business Lines.

Key Responsisbilites:

 

?  Engineer efficient Service Provisioning and Management of the Platforms in     client Private cloud environment
?  Develop Integrated monitoring and management of Cloud Messaging Platform consistent with the Cloud Platform Frameworks
?  Enable On-demand scalability and Capacity Management of the services
?  Engineer Platform Security Guidelines consistent with client Global Security Policies
?  Provide key SME to enable rapid Application development and deployment leveraging the CloudScale messaging platforms
?  Work closely with application development teams to handle escalations and provide timely issue resolutions
?  This CloudScale Engineer position requires Evaluation and Assessments of Next Generation Application Messaging Platforms and develop usage Patterns and Recommendations for early adopter use-cases
 

Must have skills

 

?  About 2-3 years of hands-on working experience with messaging middleware platforms such as RabbitMQ, ActiveMQ TIBCO EMS, IBM MQ or JMS based systems.
?  Experience in Engineering Messaging Platforms for efficient service provisioning, management and monitoring as well as Continuity of Business/Disaster recovery solutions 
?  Working experience on projects involving multiple services/component integration
?  Experience in engineering platform security and integration with Security/Authentication/Authorization services
?  Strong Exposure to Messaging Paradigms, Network Protocols and Resilient services
?  Exposure to Application Programming Languages such as Ruby, Java, C/C++, C#.
?  Exposure to REST/JSON and WebServices services
?  Experience using either WebService or REST for managing application/messaging tasks.
?  Working experience with scripting languages such as Python, Perl, PHP, JavaScript, Shell
?  Excellent Oral and Written Communication Skills
 
 

Nice to have Skills

 

?  Strong Exposure to Cloud environments such as AWS/CloudFoundry/Google/Azune
?  Hands on experience with Messaging Platforms in the Cloud such as RabbitMQ/ActiveMQ
?  Exposure to API based Application Services Integration Frameworks
?  Exposure to automation framework components such as Chef, Puppet
?  Experience with service and application monitoring frameworks such as Graphite, Wily, RTView
?  Log management in a distributed environment using utilities such as  Logstash/Splunk
?  Exposure to Middleware components such as WebServer and AppServer










Thanks & Regards 
                                               
Sourav Paul | Technical Recruiter
IT-SCIENT LLC, Fremont, CA, USA  
Email: sourav524.itscient at gmail.com
Phone: 510-972-8633 | Fax: 877-701-5240
|web: www.itscient.com


From steve at pearwood.info  Mon Apr 25 12:36:56 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 02:36:56 +1000
Subject: Question on List processing
References: <d0b4c737-3922-4b49-8f69-2564ba472950@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <571e47aa$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 12:56 am, subhabangalore at gmail.com wrote:

> Dear Group,
> 
> I have a list of tuples, as follows,
> 
> list1=[u"('koteeswaram/BHPERSN engaged/NA himself/NA in/NA various/NA
[... 17 more lines of data ...]

Hi Subhabrata, and thanks for the question.

Please remember that we are offering help for free, in our own time. If you
want help from us, you should help us to help you.

It is very unlikely that many people will spend the time to study your data
in close enough detail to understand your requirements. Please give a
*simplified* example. Instead of 17 lines of repetitive data, use a "toy"
example that matches the format but without all the complicated details.
And format it so that it is easy to read:

input = [u"('a/b/ ','A')",
         u"('z/x/ ','B')",
         u"('b/d/ ','C')",
         ]

output = ????



> I tried to make it as follows,
[...]
> but not helping.

What do you mean, "not helping"? What happens when you try?

Please show a *simple* example, with no more than four or five lines of
*short, easy to read* text.

Remember, we are giving you advice and consulting for free. We are not paid
to do this. If your questions are too difficult, boring, tedious, or
unpleasant, we will just ignore them, so please help us to help you by
simplifying them as much as possible.

Thank you.




-- 
Steven



From torriem at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 13:16:47 2016
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 11:16:47 -0600
Subject: Scraping email to make invoice
In-Reply-To: <nfla7h$bbk$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <e75f5681-6e6f-424f-8697-b01c94d0f3ce@googlegroups.com>
 <571D548D.2040500@gmail.com> <nfla7h$bbk$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <571E50FF.9010507@gmail.com>

On 04/25/2016 08:39 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> Your normal gmail password is used for IMAP.

Actually, no, unless you explicitly tell Google to allow "less-secure"
authentication.  Otherwise you are required to set up a special,
application-specific password.

https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/185833?hl=en

> Warning: don't use the basic imaplib.  IMAP is a miserable protocol,
> and imap lib is too thin a wrapper. It'll make you bleed from the ears
> and wish you were dead.  Use imapclient or imaplib2.  I've used both
> (with Gmail's IMAP server), and IMO both are pretty good.  Either one
> is miles ahead of plain imaplib.




From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 13:59:06 2016
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 17:59:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Scraping email to make invoice
References: <e75f5681-6e6f-424f-8697-b01c94d0f3ce@googlegroups.com>
 <571D548D.2040500@gmail.com> <nfla7h$bbk$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <571E50FF.9010507@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <nfllta$s5d$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2016-04-25, Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 04/25/2016 08:39 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> Your normal gmail password is used for IMAP.
>
> Actually, no, unless you explicitly tell Google to allow "less-secure"
> authentication.  Otherwise you are required to set up a special,
> application-specific password.
>
> https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/185833?hl=en

You're right. I should have said your normal gmail password _can_be_
used for IMAP.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! TAILFINS!! ... click
                                  at               ...
                              gmail.com            



From Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid  Mon Apr 25 14:10:58 2016
From: Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid (Seymore4Head)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 14:10:58 -0400
Subject: Python path and append
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i@4ax.com>

On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 18:29:38 -0400, Seymore4Head
<Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid> wrote:

I am going to forget using a directory path.
I would like to take the file win.txt and append a space and the *
symbol.

f = open('win.txt', 'r+')
for line in f:
    f.read(line)
    f.write(line+" *")

This doesn't work.  Would someone fix it please?  It is for a task I
am trying to accomplish just for a home task.


From rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid  Mon Apr 25 14:24:02 2016
From: rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid (Rob Gaddi)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 18:24:02 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python path and append
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
 <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <nflnc1$7a4$1@dont-email.me>

Seymore4Head wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 18:29:38 -0400, Seymore4Head
> <Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid> wrote:
>
> I am going to forget using a directory path.
> I would like to take the file win.txt and append a space and the *
> symbol.
>
> f = open('win.txt', 'r+')
> for line in f:
>     f.read(line)
>     f.write(line+" *")
>
> This doesn't work.  Would someone fix it please?  It is for a task I
> am trying to accomplish just for a home task.

"for line in f:" already means "make the variable line equal to each
line in f sequentially".  f.read is both superfluous and also doesn't do
that.  Leave it out entirely.

The next problem you'll have is that iterating over the lines of the
file leaves the newline at the end of line, so your * will end up on the
wrong line.

Do yourself a favor: https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/inputoutput.html
isn't very long.

-- 
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com
Email address domain is currently out of order.  See above to fix.


From Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid  Mon Apr 25 15:00:32 2016
From: Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid (Seymore4Head)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:00:32 -0400
Subject: Python path and append
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
 <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i@4ax.com> <nflnc1$7a4$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <n5qshb5tmq4gk6nvqmad44lb523ouoiji5@4ax.com>

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 18:24:02 -0000 (UTC), Rob Gaddi
<rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid> wrote:

>Seymore4Head wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 18:29:38 -0400, Seymore4Head
>> <Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> I am going to forget using a directory path.
>> I would like to take the file win.txt and append a space and the *
>> symbol.
>>
>> f = open('win.txt', 'r+')
>> for line in f:
>>     f.read(line)
>>     f.write(line+" *")
>>
>> This doesn't work.  Would someone fix it please?  It is for a task I
>> am trying to accomplish just for a home task.
>
>"for line in f:" already means "make the variable line equal to each
>line in f sequentially".  f.read is both superfluous and also doesn't do
>that.  Leave it out entirely.
>
>The next problem you'll have is that iterating over the lines of the
>file leaves the newline at the end of line, so your * will end up on the
>wrong line.
>
>Do yourself a favor: https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/inputoutput.html
>isn't very long.

I was reading that.  I have read it before.  I don't use python enough
to even remember the simple stuff.  Then when I try to use if for
something simple I forget how.

f = open('wout.txt', 'r+')
for line in f:
    line=line.strip()
    f.write(line+" *")
f.close()

Still broke.  How about just telling me where I missed?  Please?


From Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com  Mon Apr 25 15:08:56 2016
From: Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com (Joaquin Alzola)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:08:56 +0000
Subject: Python path and append
In-Reply-To: <n5qshb5tmq4gk6nvqmad44lb523ouoiji5@4ax.com>
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
 <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i@4ax.com> <nflnc1$7a4$1@dont-email.me>
 <n5qshb5tmq4gk6nvqmad44lb523ouoiji5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR07MB1356FDA50BB26CB85681F3E2F0620@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Strip() = white spaces.
Description
The method strip() returns a copy of the string in which all chars have been stripped from the beginning and the end of the string (default whitespace characters).

Use to remove return carriage--> line[:-1]

-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+joaquin.alzola=lebara.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Seymore4Head
Sent: 25 April 2016 20:01
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Python path and append

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 18:24:02 -0000 (UTC), Rob Gaddi <rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid> wrote:

>Seymore4Head wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 18:29:38 -0400, Seymore4Head
>> <Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> I am going to forget using a directory path.
>> I would like to take the file win.txt and append a space and the *
>> symbol.
>>
>> f = open('win.txt', 'r+')
>> for line in f:
>>     f.read(line)
>>     f.write(line+" *")
>>
>> This doesn't work.  Would someone fix it please?  It is for a task I
>> am trying to accomplish just for a home task.
>
>"for line in f:" already means "make the variable line equal to each
>line in f sequentially".  f.read is both superfluous and also doesn't
>do that.  Leave it out entirely.
>
>The next problem you'll have is that iterating over the lines of the
>file leaves the newline at the end of line, so your * will end up on
>the wrong line.
>
>Do yourself a favor:
>https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/inputoutput.html
>isn't very long.

I was reading that.  I have read it before.  I don't use python enough to even remember the simple stuff.  Then when I try to use if for something simple I forget how.

f = open('wout.txt', 'r+')
for line in f:
    line=line.strip()
    f.write(line+" *")
f.close()

Still broke.  How about just telling me where I missed?  Please?
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
This email is confidential and may be subject to privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not copy or disclose its content but contact the sender immediately upon receipt.


From rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid  Mon Apr 25 15:31:27 2016
From: rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid (Rob Gaddi)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:31:27 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python path and append
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
 <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i@4ax.com> <nflnc1$7a4$1@dont-email.me>
 <n5qshb5tmq4gk6nvqmad44lb523ouoiji5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <nflraf$qb0$1@dont-email.me>

Seymore4Head wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 18:24:02 -0000 (UTC), Rob Gaddi
> <rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Seymore4Head wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 18:29:38 -0400, Seymore4Head
>>> <Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am going to forget using a directory path.
>>> I would like to take the file win.txt and append a space and the *
>>> symbol.
>>>
>>> f = open('win.txt', 'r+')
>>> for line in f:
>>>     f.read(line)
>>>     f.write(line+" *")
>>>
>>> This doesn't work.  Would someone fix it please?  It is for a task I
>>> am trying to accomplish just for a home task.
>>
>>"for line in f:" already means "make the variable line equal to each
>>line in f sequentially".  f.read is both superfluous and also doesn't do
>>that.  Leave it out entirely.
>>
>>The next problem you'll have is that iterating over the lines of the
>>file leaves the newline at the end of line, so your * will end up on the
>>wrong line.
>>
>>Do yourself a favor: https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/inputoutput.html
>>isn't very long.
>
> I was reading that.  I have read it before.  I don't use python enough
> to even remember the simple stuff.  Then when I try to use if for
> something simple I forget how.
>
> f = open('wout.txt', 'r+')
> for line in f:
>     line=line.strip()
>     f.write(line+" *")
> f.close()
>
> Still broke.  How about just telling me where I missed?  Please?

Depends on what "broke" means.  I'm going to go out on a limb and guess
that the problem now is that you get no newlines at all, because they've
been stripped off of the line you read and .write doesn't put it back
on, in which case you should be adding " *\n" instead.  If that's not
it, then reply hazy, please concentrate and ask again.

-- 
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com
Email address domain is currently out of order.  See above to fix.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Apr 25 15:44:50 2016
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 20:44:50 +0100
Subject: Python path and append
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR07MB1356FDA50BB26CB85681F3E2F0620@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
 <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i@4ax.com> <nflnc1$7a4$1@dont-email.me>
 <n5qshb5tmq4gk6nvqmad44lb523ouoiji5@4ax.com>
 <HE1PR07MB1356FDA50BB26CB85681F3E2F0620@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <f144fd58-c3ad-409b-31af-cac4f7133f8d@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-25 20:08, Joaquin Alzola wrote:
> Strip() = white spaces.
> Description
> The method strip() returns a copy of the string in which all chars have been stripped from the beginning and the end of the string (default whitespace characters).
>
> Use to remove return carriage--> line[:-1]
>
1. In the file it might be a linefeed, or a carriage return, or a
carriage return followed by a linefeed, depending on the operating
system. Python translates it to a linefeed "\n" (or 'newline') on
reading.

2. It's possible that the last line doesn't end have a line ending, so
line[:-1] could be removing some other character. It's safer to use
line.rstrip("\n").

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+joaquin.alzola=lebara.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Seymore4Head
> Sent: 25 April 2016 20:01
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: Python path and append
>
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 18:24:02 -0000 (UTC), Rob Gaddi <rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Seymore4Head wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 18:29:38 -0400, Seymore4Head
>>> <Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am going to forget using a directory path.
>>> I would like to take the file win.txt and append a space and the *
>>> symbol.
>>>
>>> f = open('win.txt', 'r+')
>>> for line in f:
>>>     f.read(line)
>>>     f.write(line+" *")
>>>
>>> This doesn't work.  Would someone fix it please?  It is for a task I
>>> am trying to accomplish just for a home task.
>>
>>"for line in f:" already means "make the variable line equal to each
>>line in f sequentially".  f.read is both superfluous and also doesn't
>>do that.  Leave it out entirely.
>>
>>The next problem you'll have is that iterating over the lines of the
>>file leaves the newline at the end of line, so your * will end up on
>>the wrong line.
>>
>>Do yourself a favor:
>>https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/inputoutput.html
>>isn't very long.
>
> I was reading that.  I have read it before.  I don't use python enough to even remember the simple stuff.  Then when I try to use if for something simple I forget how.
>
> f = open('wout.txt', 'r+')
> for line in f:
>     line=line.strip()
>     f.write(line+" *")
> f.close()
>
> Still broke.  How about just telling me where I missed?  Please?
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> This email is confidential and may be subject to privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not copy or disclose its content but contact the sender immediately upon receipt.
>



From Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid  Mon Apr 25 16:15:15 2016
From: Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid (Seymore4Head)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 16:15:15 -0400
Subject: Python path and append
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
 <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i@4ax.com> <nflnc1$7a4$1@dont-email.me>
 <n5qshb5tmq4gk6nvqmad44lb523ouoiji5@4ax.com>
 <HE1PR07MB1356FDA50BB26CB85681F3E2F0620@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <mailman.89.1461611345.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <02ushb9mntvtedeg5c7l33uhapt2j6nivu@4ax.com>

Thanks for the tip.

Still broke.  :(

f = open('wout.txt', 'r+')
for line in f:
    if line=="":
        exit
    line=line[:-1]
    line=line+" *"
    f.write(line)
    print line
f.close()



I did notice that it wrote the 3 lines of test file but it didn't
append the * after the third entry and it starts printing garbage
after that.


On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:08:56 +0000, Joaquin Alzola
<Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com> wrote:

>Strip() = white spaces.
>Description
>The method strip() returns a copy of the string in which all chars have been stripped from the beginning and the end of the string (default whitespace characters).
>
>Use to remove return carriage--> line[:-1]
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+joaquin.alzola=lebara.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Seymore4Head
>Sent: 25 April 2016 20:01
>To: python-list at python.org
>Subject: Re: Python path and append
>
>On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 18:24:02 -0000 (UTC), Rob Gaddi <rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Seymore4Head wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 18:29:38 -0400, Seymore4Head
>>> <Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am going to forget using a directory path.
>>> I would like to take the file win.txt and append a space and the *
>>> symbol.
>>>
>>> f = open('win.txt', 'r+')
>>> for line in f:
>>>     f.read(line)
>>>     f.write(line+" *")
>>>
>>> This doesn't work.  Would someone fix it please?  It is for a task I
>>> am trying to accomplish just for a home task.
>>
>>"for line in f:" already means "make the variable line equal to each
>>line in f sequentially".  f.read is both superfluous and also doesn't
>>do that.  Leave it out entirely.
>>
>>The next problem you'll have is that iterating over the lines of the
>>file leaves the newline at the end of line, so your * will end up on
>>the wrong line.
>>
>>Do yourself a favor:
>>https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/inputoutput.html
>>isn't very long.
>
>I was reading that.  I have read it before.  I don't use python enough to even remember the simple stuff.  Then when I try to use if for something simple I forget how.
>
>f = open('wout.txt', 'r+')
>for line in f:
>    line=line.strip()
>    f.write(line+" *")
>f.close()
>
>Still broke.  How about just telling me where I missed?  Please?


From random832 at fastmail.com  Mon Apr 25 16:28:32 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 16:28:32 -0400
Subject: Python path and append
In-Reply-To: <02ushb9mntvtedeg5c7l33uhapt2j6nivu@4ax.com>
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
 <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i@4ax.com>
 <nflnc1$7a4$1@dont-email.me>
 <n5qshb5tmq4gk6nvqmad44lb523ouoiji5@4ax.com>
 <HE1PR07MB1356FDA50BB26CB85681F3E2F0620@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <mailman.89.1461611345.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <02ushb9mntvtedeg5c7l33uhapt2j6nivu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1461616112.2223232.589261113.1AB67247@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016, at 16:15, Seymore4Head wrote:
> Thanks for the tip.
> 
> Still broke.  :(
> 
> f = open('wout.txt', 'r+')
> for line in f:
>     if line=="":
>         exit
>     line=line[:-1]
>     line=line+" *"
>     f.write(line)
>     print line
> f.close()

Your problem is that after you read the first line, your file "cursor"
is positioned after the end of that line. So when you write the modified
version of the line, it ends up after that. And then when you write it,
the cursor is wherever the end of that is.

So if you start with this:
AAA
BBB
CCC

You'll end up with this:
AAA
AAA* [this overwrites "BBB_C" with "AAA*_" if _ is the line break]
CC
CC*

There's no good way around this. You can either read the whole file into
memory at once into a list, then rewind (look at the seek function) and
write the lines out of the list, or you can write to a *different* file
than the one you're reading.


From m at funkyhat.org  Mon Apr 25 16:31:28 2016
From: m at funkyhat.org (Matt Wheeler)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 20:31:28 +0000
Subject: Question on List processing
In-Reply-To: <d0b4c737-3922-4b49-8f69-2564ba472950@googlegroups.com>
References: <d0b4c737-3922-4b49-8f69-2564ba472950@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAG93HwFn0SbR-CzrWk7U4eZ7sj7-RUwQxL_172jiZUWJZvZLjA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:56 , <subhabangalore at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Group,
>
> I have a list of tuples, as follows,
>
> list1=[u"('koteeswaram/BHPERSN engaged/NA himself/NA in/NA various/NA
> philanthropic/NA activities/NA  ','class1')", u"('koteeswaram/BHPERSN is/NA
> a/NA very/NA nice/NA person/NA  ','class1')", u"('koteeswaram/BHPERSN
> came/NA to/NA mumbai/LOC but/NA could/NA not/NA attend/NA the/ARTDEF
> board/NA meeting/NA  ','class1')", u"('the/ARTDEF people/NA of/NA
> the/ARTDEF company ABCOMP did/NA not/NA vote/NA for/NA koteeswaram/LOC
> ','class2')", u"('the/ARTDEF director AHT of/NA the/ARTDEF company,/NA
> koteeswaram/BHPERSN had/NA been/NA advised/NA to/NA take/NA rest/NA for/NA
> a/NA while/NA  ','class2')", u"('animesh/BHPERSN chauhan/BHPERSN arrived/NA
> by/NA his/PRNM3PAS private/NA aircraft/NA in/NA mumbai/LOC  ','class2')",
> u"('animesh/BHPERSN chauhan/BHPERSN met/NA the/ARTDEF prime/HPLPERST
> minister/AHT of/NA india/LOCC over/NA some/NA issues/NA  ','class2')",
> u"('animesh/BHPERSN chauhan/BHPERSN is/NA trying/NA to/NA set/NA up/NA a/NA
> plant/NA in/NA uk/LOCC  ','class3')", u"('animesh/BHPERSN chauh
>  an/BHPERSN is/NA trying/NA to/NA launch/NA a/NA new/ABCOMP office/AHT
> in/NA burdwan/LOC  ','class3')", u"('animesh/BHPERSN chauhan/BHPERSN is/NA
> trying/NA to/NA work/NA out/NA the/ARTDEF launch/NA of/NA a/NA new/ABCOMP
> product/NA in/NA india/LOCC  ','class3')"]
>

What you have is a list of strings, not tuples.

>
> I want to make it like,
>
> [('koteeswaram/BHPERSN engaged/NA himself/NA in/NA various/NA
> philanthropic/NA activities/NA','class1'),
>  ('koteeswaram/BHPERSN is/NA a/NA very/NA nice/NA person/NA  ','class1'),
> ('koteeswaram/BHPERSN came/NA to/NA mumbai/LOC but/NA could/NA not/NA
> attend/NA the/ARTDEF board/NA meeting/NA','class1'), ('the/ARTDEF people/NA
> of/NA the/ARTDEF company ABCOMP did/NA not/NA vote/NA for/NA
> koteeswaram/LOC  ','class2'),           ('the/ARTDEF director AHT of/NA
> the/ARTDEF company,/NA koteeswaram/BHPERSN had/NA been/NA advised/NA to/NA
> take/NA rest/NA for/NA a/NA while/NA  ','class2'), ('animesh/BHPERSN
> chauhan/BHPERSN arrived/NA by/NA his/PRNM3PAS private/NA aircraft/NA in/NA
> mumbai/LOC','class2'), ('animesh/BHPERSN chauhan/BHPERSN met/NA the/ARTDEF
> prime/HPLPERST minister/AHT of/NA india/LOCC over/NA some/NA
> issues/NA','class2'), ('animesh/BHPERSN chauhan/BHPERSN is/NA trying/NA
> to/NA set/NA up/NA a/NA plant/NA in/NA uk/LOCC','class3'),
> ('animesh/BHPERSN chauhan/BHPERSN is/NA trying/NA to/NA launch/NA a/NA
> new/ABCOMP office/AHT in/NA burdwan/LOC','class3'),
> ('animesh/BHPERSN chauhan/BHPERSN is/NA trying/NA to/NA work/NA out/NA
> the/ARTDEF launch/NA of/NA a/NA new/ABCOMP product/NA in/NA
> india/LOCC','class3')]
>
> I tried to make it as follows,
> list2=[]
> for i in train_sents:
>         a1=unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', i).encode('ascii','ignore')
>         a2=a1.replace('"',"")
>         list2.append(a2)


> and,
>
> for i in list1:
>         a3=i[1:-1]
>         list2.append(a3)
>

In both of these you seem to be trying to remove the double quote marks
from the strings, but they aren't part of the strings in the first place,
just delimiters.

>
>
> but not helping.
> If any one may kindly suggest how may I approach it?
>

Check out the documentation for ast.literal_eval

>


From Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid  Mon Apr 25 16:43:42 2016
From: Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid (Seymore4Head)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 16:43:42 -0400
Subject: Python path and append
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
 <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i@4ax.com> <nflnc1$7a4$1@dont-email.me>
 <n5qshb5tmq4gk6nvqmad44lb523ouoiji5@4ax.com>
 <HE1PR07MB1356FDA50BB26CB85681F3E2F0620@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <f144fd58-c3ad-409b-31af-cac4f7133f8d@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.90.1461613684.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <280thb5v16q1ids78j6rbbcs95957osgja@4ax.com>

I am using a test file that is only 3 lines:
Punjabi .Mp3
Big Lake (DVD) SWV.avi
Blue Balloon.AHC.RH.mkv

The program correctly appends an * to the end of the line, but then it
goes into a loop printing random looking stuff.

f = open('wout.txt', 'r+')
for line in f:
    if line=="":
        exit
    line=line[:-1]
    line=line+" *"
    f.write(line)
    print line
f.close()


On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 20:44:50 +0100, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com>
wrote:

>On 2016-04-25 20:08, Joaquin Alzola wrote:
>> Strip() = white spaces.
>> Description
>> The method strip() returns a copy of the string in which all chars have been stripped from the beginning and the end of the string (default whitespace characters).
>>
>> Use to remove return carriage--> line[:-1]
>>
>1. In the file it might be a linefeed, or a carriage return, or a
>carriage return followed by a linefeed, depending on the operating
>system. Python translates it to a linefeed "\n" (or 'newline') on
>reading.
>
>2. It's possible that the last line doesn't end have a line ending, so
>line[:-1] could be removing some other character. It's safer to use
>line.rstrip("\n").
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+joaquin.alzola=lebara.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Seymore4Head
>> Sent: 25 April 2016 20:01
>> To: python-list at python.org
>> Subject: Re: Python path and append
>>
>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 18:24:02 -0000 (UTC), Rob Gaddi <rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>Seymore4Head wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 18:29:38 -0400, Seymore4Head
>>>> <Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am going to forget using a directory path.
>>>> I would like to take the file win.txt and append a space and the *
>>>> symbol.
>>>>
>>>> f = open('win.txt', 'r+')
>>>> for line in f:
>>>>     f.read(line)
>>>>     f.write(line+" *")
>>>>
>>>> This doesn't work.  Would someone fix it please?  It is for a task I
>>>> am trying to accomplish just for a home task.
>>>
>>>"for line in f:" already means "make the variable line equal to each
>>>line in f sequentially".  f.read is both superfluous and also doesn't
>>>do that.  Leave it out entirely.
>>>
>>>The next problem you'll have is that iterating over the lines of the
>>>file leaves the newline at the end of line, so your * will end up on
>>>the wrong line.
>>>
>>>Do yourself a favor:
>>>https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/inputoutput.html
>>>isn't very long.
>>
>> I was reading that.  I have read it before.  I don't use python enough to even remember the simple stuff.  Then when I try to use if for something simple I forget how.
>>
>> f = open('wout.txt', 'r+')
>> for line in f:
>>     line=line.strip()
>>     f.write(line+" *")
>> f.close()
>>
>> Still broke.  How about just telling me where I missed?  Please?
>> --
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>> This email is confidential and may be subject to privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not copy or disclose its content but contact the sender immediately upon receipt.
>>


From gordon at panix.com  Mon Apr 25 17:26:34 2016
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 21:26:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python path and append
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
 <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <nfm22a$qms$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i at 4ax.com> Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid> writes:

> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 18:29:38 -0400, Seymore4Head
> <Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid> wrote:

> I am going to forget using a directory path.
> I would like to take the file win.txt and append a space and the *
> symbol.

> f = open('win.txt', 'r+')
> for line in f:
>     f.read(line)
>     f.write(line+" *")

> This doesn't work.  Would someone fix it please?  It is for a task I
> am trying to accomplish just for a home task.

It's much easier to create a new file and then rename it afterwards,
instead of rewriting the original file.

    import os

    f_in = open('win.txt', 'r')
    f_out = open('win_new.txt', 'w')

    for line in f_in.read().splitlines():
        f_out.write(line + " *\n")

    f_in.close()
    f_out.close()

    os.rename('win.txt', 'win_old.txt')
    os.rename('win_new.txt', 'win.txt')

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Apr 25 17:38:10 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 23:38:10 +0200
Subject: Python path and append
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
 <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i@4ax.com> <nflnc1$7a4$1@dont-email.me>
 <n5qshb5tmq4gk6nvqmad44lb523ouoiji5@4ax.com>
 <HE1PR07MB1356FDA50BB26CB85681F3E2F0620@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <mailman.89.1461611345.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <02ushb9mntvtedeg5c7l33uhapt2j6nivu@4ax.com>
 <1461616112.2223232.589261113.1AB67247@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <nfm2o7$j0h$1@ger.gmane.org>

Random832 wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016, at 16:15, Seymore4Head wrote:
>> Thanks for the tip.
>> 
>> Still broke.  :(
>> 
>> f = open('wout.txt', 'r+')
>> for line in f:
>>     if line=="":
>>         exit
>>     line=line[:-1]
>>     line=line+" *"
>>     f.write(line)
>>     print line
>> f.close()
> 
> Your problem is that after you read the first line, your file "cursor"
> is positioned after the end of that line. So when you write the modified
> version of the line, it ends up after that. And then when you write it,
> the cursor is wherever the end of that is.
> 
> So if you start with this:
> AAA
> BBB
> CCC
> 
> You'll end up with this:
> AAA
> AAA* [this overwrites "BBB_C" with "AAA*_" if _ is the line break]
> CC
> CC*
> 
> There's no good way around this. You can either read the whole file into
> memory at once into a list, then rewind (look at the seek function) and
> write the lines out of the list, or you can write to a *different* file
> than the one you're reading.

You can leave the details to python though:

$ cat sample.txt
alpha
beta
gamma
$ python
Python 2.7.6 (default, Jun 22 2015, 17:58:13) 
[GCC 4.8.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import fileinput
>>> for line in fileinput.input("sample.txt", inplace=True):
...     print line.rstrip("\n"), "*"
... 
>>> 
$ cat sample.txt 
alpha *
beta *
gamma *

Too much magic for my taste, but the OP might like it.



From Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid  Mon Apr 25 18:04:00 2016
From: Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid (Seymore4Head)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 18:04:00 -0400
Subject: Python path and append
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
 <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i@4ax.com> <nfm22a$qms$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <pq4thb907ep4mknnali2rhqgao32jdsn5o@4ax.com>

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 21:26:34 +0000 (UTC), John Gordon
<gordon at panix.com> wrote:

>In <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i at 4ax.com> Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid> writes:
>
>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 18:29:38 -0400, Seymore4Head
>> <Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I am going to forget using a directory path.
>> I would like to take the file win.txt and append a space and the *
>> symbol.
>
>> f = open('win.txt', 'r+')
>> for line in f:
>>     f.read(line)
>>     f.write(line+" *")
>
>> This doesn't work.  Would someone fix it please?  It is for a task I
>> am trying to accomplish just for a home task.
>
>It's much easier to create a new file and then rename it afterwards,
>instead of rewriting the original file.
>
>    import os
>
>    f_in = open('win.txt', 'r')
>    f_out = open('win_new.txt', 'w')
>
>    for line in f_in.read().splitlines():
>        f_out.write(line + " *\n")
>
>    f_in.close()
>    f_out.close()
>
>    os.rename('win.txt', 'win_old.txt')
>    os.rename('win_new.txt', 'win.txt')

That is 100% spoon fed code and that is what I wanted.
Thanks

I learned enough python to complete an online course from Dr Chuck but
I don't write enough code to remember how except for a simple task
that is usually simpler to do manually than to remember how to code.

http://www.dr-chuck.com/


Thanks to everyone else too.

BTW I was trying to use a line like yours that used an output file
that didn't exist and was getting an error.  I assume that import os
fixes that.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 20:25:46 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:25:46 +1000
Subject: Python path and append
In-Reply-To: <nfm22a$qms$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
 <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i@4ax.com>
 <nfm22a$qms$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpSQbBZ8ioH23-p4ywY+2HRRU09bWTBREeMRL86Ay9h0Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 7:26 AM, John Gordon <gordon at panix.com> wrote:
> It's much easier to create a new file and then rename it afterwards,
> instead of rewriting the original file.

And more importantly, it's safer. If anything happens to your process
while it's doing its work, you'll have a junk file sitting around, but
you won't have lost everything. If you overwrite the existing file,
you (often) depend on completely writing out the content you have in
memory.

ChrisA


From steve at pearwood.info  Mon Apr 25 21:51:23 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:51:23 +1000
Subject: Python path and append
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
 <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i@4ax.com> <nflnc1$7a4$1@dont-email.me>
 <n5qshb5tmq4gk6nvqmad44lb523ouoiji5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <571ec99c$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 05:00 am, Seymore4Head wrote:

> I was reading that.  I have read it before.  I don't use python enough
> to even remember the simple stuff.  Then when I try to use if for
> something simple I forget how.

It is perfectly fine to forget things that you read weeks or months before.
The point is, having forgotten it, you should go back and refresh your
memory when you need to.


> f = open('wout.txt', 'r+')
> for line in f:
>     line=line.strip()
>     f.write(line+" *")
> f.close()
> 
> Still broke.  How about just telling me where I missed?  Please?

The contents of files don't just magically get moved out of the way when you
write to them. There is no "insert mode" for files -- they are always set
to "overwrite" mode. (Possible a few very old operating systems on
supercomputers from the 1970s or 80s may have supported inserting... I seem
to recall that VMS may have allowed that... but don't quote me.)

So you can append to the *end* of a file without disrupting the content, but
you cannot insert to the middle or beginning of a file without overwriting.

The basic way to insert data into a file is:

* read the entire file into memory;
* insert the new data into the memory;
* write the entire file out again.



with open("myfile.txt") as f:
    lines = f.readlines()

for i, line in enumerate(lines):
    lines[i] = line.strip() + " *\n"  # space, asterisk, newline

with open("myfile.txt", "w") as f:
    f.writelines(lines)


That's good enough for DIY or hobby use. But for professional use, it starts
getting *very* complex quickly. What if the power goes off or your computer
crashes half-way through writing the file? You've lost all your data.

See here for the *start* of a more professional approach:

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/579097-safely-and-atomically-write-to-a-file/


-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Mon Apr 25 21:53:57 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:53:57 +1000
Subject: Python path and append
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
 <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i@4ax.com> <nfm22a$qms$1@reader1.panix.com>
 <pq4thb907ep4mknnali2rhqgao32jdsn5o@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <571eca35$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 08:04 am, Seymore4Head wrote:

> BTW I was trying to use a line like yours that used an output file
> that didn't exist and was getting an error. ?I assume that import os
> fixes that.


Why would you assume that?


"Doctor, I have a problem with my arm, but I won't tell you what. I assume
that if I take cough drops that will fix it."



-- 
Steven



From dan at tombstonezero.net  Mon Apr 25 21:59:51 2016
From: dan at tombstonezero.net (Dan Sommers)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 01:59:51 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python path and append
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
 <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i@4ax.com> <nflnc1$7a4$1@dont-email.me>
 <n5qshb5tmq4gk6nvqmad44lb523ouoiji5@4ax.com>
 <571ec99c$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <nfmi2n$126$1@dont-email.me>

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:51:23 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> ... (Possible a few very old operating systems on supercomputers from
> the 1970s or 80s may have supported inserting... I seem to recall that
> VMS may have allowed that... but don't quote me.)

Some [non-supercomputer] OSes/filesystems/languages support(ed) the
notion of fixed-length records, where a file acted as if it were an
array of records.  You could, e.g., replace Record Number 3 without
disturbing Record Number 2 or Record Number 4.  In the systems I
remember like that, the records were simply ad hoc collections of
whatever you wrote, not unlike the arguments to print, and it was up to
your application to read and write the same structure.  The limitation,
of course, was that you had to declare the length up front, and that you
ended up with wasted space somewhere if a lot of your records were
"short."


From pannis2013 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 01:37:23 2016
From: pannis2013 at gmail.com (pannis2013 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 22:37:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python email issues
Message-ID: <f4153463-3201-4673-a214-d34d24210409@googlegroups.com>

Hi,
I am trying send email through smtplib

import smtplib
import os
from libs import send_mail_status
send_mail_status('test', False, 'ABCD', os.getcwd())


libs.py has a function as below:
def send_status_mail(name, success, id, dir):
    #SERVER = "localhost"
    FROM = "localhost"
    TO = ["abc at nus.edu.sg"]
    SUBJECT = "test"
    body = "test"
    message = """\
    From: %s
    To: %s
    Subject: %s
    %s
    """ % (FROM, ", ".join(TO), SUBJECT, body)

But I receive an email as below: All the contents are in the email body:

From: localhost
    To: abc at nus.edu.sg
    Subject: test

    test

Why all the ocntents are written in the body where as email body should have just a string "test"
Kindly clarify. Thanks.


From santanu01 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 02:21:23 2016
From: santanu01 at gmail.com (San)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 23:21:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: def __init__(self):
Message-ID: <34e51ef5-9679-40ec-bc8f-47981353e9d7@googlegroups.com>

Hi All,

Pls let me why 
"
def __init__(self):

"
declaration required, what's the use of this one.Pls explain  me in details.

Thanks in advance.


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Apr 26 02:23:20 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 18:23:20 +1200
Subject: Python path and append
In-Reply-To: <571ec99c$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
 <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i@4ax.com> <nflnc1$7a4$1@dont-email.me>
 <n5qshb5tmq4gk6nvqmad44lb523ouoiji5@4ax.com>
 <571ec99c$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <do8fqqF7o8eU1@mid.individual.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> (Possible a few very old operating systems on
> supercomputers from the 1970s or 80s may have supported inserting... I seem
> to recall that VMS may have allowed that... but don't quote me.)

I wouldn't be surprised if VMS provided some sort of indexed
random-access file structure that supported inserting records.
OSes of that era tended to be big on things like that, since
they were all about Serious Data Processing.

But it probably wouldn't have let you insert data into the
middle of a sequential file without explicitly moving
everything that came after it.

-- 
Greg


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Apr 26 02:31:22 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 16:31:22 +1000
Subject: def __init__(self):
References: <34e51ef5-9679-40ec-bc8f-47981353e9d7@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <85inz4nao5.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

San <santanu01 at gmail.com> writes:

> Pls let me why [?] declaration required, what's the use of this one.

Welcome to Python! Congratulations on beginning to learn this language.

> Pls explain  me in details.

You should participate in our collaborative tutoring forum, ?tutor?
<URL:https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor> which is specially
focussed on helping Python beginners.

-- 
 \         ?Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free |
  `\          than Christianity has made them good.? ?Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From gherron at digipen.edu  Tue Apr 26 03:06:09 2016
From: gherron at digipen.edu (Gary Herron)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 00:06:09 -0700
Subject: def __init__(self):
In-Reply-To: <34e51ef5-9679-40ec-bc8f-47981353e9d7@googlegroups.com>
References: <34e51ef5-9679-40ec-bc8f-47981353e9d7@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <571F1361.3010402@digipen.edu>

On 04/25/2016 11:21 PM, San wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Pls let me why
> "
> def __init__(self):
>
> "
> declaration required, what's the use of this one.Pls explain  me in details.
>
> Thanks in advance.

If you understand object-oriented-programming, then this will make sense:

    The __init__ method is the constructor for instances of a class.  It
    is not required, but the situations in which a constructor is not
    needed are few and unusual.

If you don't know object-oriented-programming, then I'd suggest you put 
that high on your list of things to learn.  It's a valuable tool.

Gary Herron


-- 
Dr. Gary Herron
Professor of Computer Science
DigiPen Institute of Technology
(425) 895-4418



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Apr 26 03:34:39 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 17:34:39 +1000
Subject: def __init__(self):
References: <34e51ef5-9679-40ec-bc8f-47981353e9d7@googlegroups.com>
 <571F1361.3010402@digipen.edu>
Message-ID: <85eg9sn7qo.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Gary Herron <gherron at digipen.edu> writes:

>    The __init__ method is the constructor for instances of a class.  It
>    is not required, but the situations in which a constructor is not
>    needed are few and unusual.

That's needlessly confusing: ?__init__? is not a constructor because it
does not construct the instance. The ?__new__? method is the constructor
for a class (and returns the new instance).

The ?__init__? method requests the already-constructed instance to
initialise itself (and returns None).

-- 
 \         ?I still have my Christmas Tree. I looked at it today. Sure |
  `\               enough, I couldn't see any forests.? ?Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From marko at pacujo.net  Tue Apr 26 04:25:39 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:25:39 +0300
Subject: def __init__(self):
References: <34e51ef5-9679-40ec-bc8f-47981353e9d7@googlegroups.com>
 <571F1361.3010402@digipen.edu> <85eg9sn7qo.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.100.1461656092.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87lh40pyik.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au>:

> Gary Herron <gherron at digipen.edu> writes:
>
>>    The __init__ method is the constructor for instances of a class.
>>    It is not required, but the situations in which a constructor is
>>    not needed are few and unusual.
>
> That's needlessly confusing: ?__init__? is not a constructor because
> it does not construct the instance. The ?__new__? method is the
> constructor for a class (and returns the new instance).

I have never ever had a temptation to specify a __new__ method. I can't
imagine a *beneficial* case of overriding it.

> The ?__init__? method requests the already-constructed instance to
> initialise itself (and returns None).

It is a serious practical problem that an object can't guarantee that
its __init__ has been called.

Check out some of the stdlib source code for example:

========================================================================
class ThreadPoolExecutor(_base.Executor):
    def __init__(self, max_workers):
        """Initializes a new ThreadPoolExecutor instance.

        Args:
            max_workers: The maximum number of threads that can be used to
                execute the given calls.
        """
        self._max_workers = max_workers
        self._work_queue = queue.Queue()
        self._threads = set()
        self._shutdown = False
        self._shutdown_lock = threading.Lock()
========================================================================

Notice how _base.Executor.__init__(self) does not get called. It can
only work if _base.Executor does not specify an __init__. That's an
assumption you really couldn't make with a clear conscience even if you
were the author and maintainer of both modules
(concurrent.futures.thread and concurrent.futures._base).


Marko


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 05:54:49 2016
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:54:49 +0100
Subject: Optimizing Memory Allocation in a Simple, but Long Function
In-Reply-To: <CAGuRns9w1bdScXdnhhD_COKftVaRm48y+RFMsCrBWF=mJcKnbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGuRns8KhOFL-a1_a=0hMP=NbktoJw78ih3j4uUSbvkF8bf3pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrQfk20EuoZVMLqKv8F5r=YyKj0nr8iNPw7DWoCEYLmYA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns86c4G5BHX_FF-OBnV_eRVKyngx_Dfp0u7hoHRT0WN++w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmq5g848-PMTgHOg7sawm+JgA5mSfwDHA-ZZgsmYr6yLCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns8LsThq3iV-bkdBbg9fZO7s61z4ggBy=YkGDqhaB_J4Xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns9uvHVBXP79X1Sp8vsW4JpWF-3g1mJoWHOq-cGog61cug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpvtP5pj_NiJNXGLmu2QCqSYZNgZjKisRRMRTtzvGHKyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHVvXxSwb8=a+b5WQfd3KeXTe8VuL4RMnwu3TSNp8129FJHJGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns911cXoppsS_8f657UDdCtVFhAzwY7ohafOqrsEuRq7vQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns9byxLC3pGrkPG8m-qLTzB1+PYxLHNy2=fOHcwWR21x6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.63.1461553965.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <do5vu5Fipb4U1@mid.individual.net>
 <CAHVvXxTU2k74S_hG=RtsEx=5uTk34Ppf4t2PhqBsat39Kv3ihQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGuRns9w1bdScXdnhhD_COKftVaRm48y+RFMsCrBWF=mJcKnbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxS5eTsrwGb65DpRxZ0bYDUVvt26Q5h2Arevm8zDRNKNaA@mail.gmail.com>

On 25 April 2016 at 15:35, Derek Klinge <schilke.60 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Although I see the value of relative error, I am just as interested in
> absolute error (though admittedly they are directly related values).

I was referring to relative error because the relative error is the
same at each step making the calculation of the global error easier.

> Are there modules or libraries I can/should use to minimize rounding error
> and use very large values of N and get an accurate answer?

from decimal import Decimal, localcontext

def e(prec):
    with localcontext() as ctx:
        ctx.prec = 2*prec + 1
        N = Decimal(10)**(prec)
        eapprox = (1 + 1/N)**N
        ctx.prec = prec
        return +eapprox

print(e(50))

Alternatively you can just use Decimal(1).exp().

> How does the math
> module calculate the vale of e?

https://hg.python.org/cpython/file/tip/Include/pymath.h#l54

--
Oscar


From harirammanohar at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 06:31:25 2016
From: harirammanohar at gmail.com (harirammanohar at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 03:31:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: delete from pattern to pattern if it contains match
In-Reply-To: <mailman.72.1461587643.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <20c0b0fe-136b-4b01-b004-c55c6d47b299@googlegroups.com>
 <91432d7b-7233-4504-a725-22bc81637ea3@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5fuufqe81.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <991c5867-27d1-4e75-aa52-a7d47e626b74@googlegroups.com>
 <nfcqjs$guu$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.11.1461317067.2861.python-list@python.org>
 <lf57ffpdhl5.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <ee696bf4-706f-4113-bb91-d231ebf47b05@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5d1pew42b.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <8001ac2b-c883-4ca1-a163-d118cc82295b@googlegroups.com>
 <nfkql5$gli$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.70.1461579263.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <lf5h9eqrmzx.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <95f0d9a7-69ff-43bf-a856-8fa62fe8a985@googlegroups.com>
 <lf5d1perkqn.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <15f2e9ff-7624-4886-bcd9-c3e9d21db328@googlegroups.com>
 <nfl2ri$o7h$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.72.1461587643.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <32834ac1-cae6-4783-a3a9-f8a4ba5ad77d@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 6:04:24 PM UTC+5:30, Peter Otten wrote:
> harirammanohar at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> >> tree.write('output.xml')
> > 
> > yup its working well if i include register namespace, else i am getting
> > ns:0  in every line of output.xml.
> > 
> > But its removing top line
> > <?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
> 
> The write() method allows you to specify an encoding and/or require an xml 
> declaration:
> 
> https://docs.python.org/dev/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html#xml.etree.ElementTree.ElementTree.write

Hi Peter,

Thanks for reminding about basic write method syntax...its working :)


<?xml version='1.0' encoding='iso-8859-1'?>
<web-app xmlns="http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" version="3.1" xsi:schemaLocation="http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee                        http://xmlns.jcp.org/xml/ns/javaee/web-app_3_1.xsd">
    <servlet-mapping>
      <servlet-name>graph</servlet-name>
      <url-pattern>/graph</url-pattern>
    </servlet-mapping>


    <session-config>
      <session-timeout>30</session-timeout>
    </session-config>


Here is the change:

tree.write('output.xml',encoding="ISO-8859-1",xml_declaration=True)

Thank you all especially jussi and pete..


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Apr 26 06:41:14 2016
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 05:41:14 -0500
Subject: Python email issues
In-Reply-To: <f4153463-3201-4673-a214-d34d24210409@googlegroups.com>
References: <f4153463-3201-4673-a214-d34d24210409@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20160426054114.10a9c963@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2016-04-25 22:37, pannis2013 at gmail.com wrote:
> I am trying send email through smtplib
>     body = "test"
>     message = """\
>     From: %s
>     To: %s
>     Subject: %s
>     %s
>     """ % (FROM, ", ".join(TO), SUBJECT, body)

Doesn't the email RFC require a blank line between the headers and
the body of the message?

I'd start by using Python's built-in tools for creating message
bodies to make sure that the message is properly composed.

-tkc





From a24061 at ducksburg.com  Tue Apr 26 09:30:14 2016
From: a24061 at ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 14:30:14 +0100
Subject: Why does pathlib not have is_readable() & things like that?
Message-ID: <6474vcx0q6.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>

I recently discovered pathlib in the Python 3 standard library, & find
it very useful, but I'm a bit surprised that it doesn't offer things
like is_readable() and is_writable.  Is there a good reason for that?

I've been improvising with things like this:

import pathlib, os

path = pathlib.Path('some/directory')
writable = os.access(str(path), os.W_OK | os.X_OK) 

Is that the best way to do it?


-- 
Unix is a user-friendly operating system. It's just very choosy about
its friends.


From random832 at fastmail.com  Tue Apr 26 09:49:22 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:49:22 -0400
Subject: def __init__(self):
In-Reply-To: <85eg9sn7qo.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <34e51ef5-9679-40ec-bc8f-47981353e9d7@googlegroups.com>
 <571F1361.3010402@digipen.edu> <85eg9sn7qo.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <1461678562.2463908.590020129.6D85452C@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016, at 03:34, Ben Finney wrote:
> That's needlessly confusing: ?__init__? is not a constructor because it
> does not construct the instance. The ?__new__? method is the constructor
> for a class (and returns the new instance).

the __new__ method is the *allocator*. "constructor" is used in many
languages to name a method that initializes an object once it already
"exists". Saying you can't call it that in Python is needlessly
confusing.


From random832 at fastmail.com  Tue Apr 26 09:57:24 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:57:24 -0400
Subject: Why does pathlib not have is_readable() & things like that?
In-Reply-To: <6474vcx0q6.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
References: <6474vcx0q6.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
Message-ID: <1461679044.2467938.590028273.4DEA02AA@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016, at 09:30, Adam Funk wrote:
> I recently discovered pathlib in the Python 3 standard library, & find
> it very useful, but I'm a bit surprised that it doesn't offer things
> like is_readable() and is_writable.  Is there a good reason for that?

Well, one reason would be EAFP. Just try to open the file and see if it
gives you a PermissionError.


From donald.ng at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 10:18:06 2016
From: donald.ng at gmail.com (+dime+)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 07:18:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to create a dictionary from csv file?
Message-ID: <246c571e-1793-4aa6-9405-19d7a1355598@googlegroups.com>

I am learning python.

if I have a csv file, like this
banana,4.0
apple,3.5
orange,3.0

Can anyone show me how to read the csv file line by line and then create a dictionary to contain these keys and values?


Regards,
+dime+ 


From gherron at digipen.edu  Tue Apr 26 10:25:28 2016
From: gherron at digipen.edu (Gary Herron)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 07:25:28 -0700
Subject: def __init__(self):
In-Reply-To: <1461678562.2463908.590020129.6D85452C@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <34e51ef5-9679-40ec-bc8f-47981353e9d7@googlegroups.com>
 <571F1361.3010402@digipen.edu> <85eg9sn7qo.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <1461678562.2463908.590020129.6D85452C@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <571F7A58.1000505@digipen.edu>

On 04/26/2016 06:49 AM, Random832 wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016, at 03:34, Ben Finney wrote:
>> That's needlessly confusing: ?__init__? is not a constructor because it
>> does not construct the instance. The ?__new__? method is the constructor
>> for a class (and returns the new instance).
> the __new__ method is the *allocator*. "constructor" is used in many
> languages to name a method that initializes an object once it already
> "exists". Saying you can't call it that in Python is needlessly
> confusing.

Agreed.  For a newbie asking about __init__, I'll stick with my original 
answer (that it's the constructor),  and suggest ignoring the overly 
pedantic (and confusing) response to the contrary.

-- 
Dr. Gary Herron
Professor of Computer Science
DigiPen Institute of Technology
(425) 895-4418




From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Apr 26 10:36:59 2016
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:36:59 -0500
Subject: how to create a dictionary from csv file?
In-Reply-To: <246c571e-1793-4aa6-9405-19d7a1355598@googlegroups.com>
References: <246c571e-1793-4aa6-9405-19d7a1355598@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20160426093659.5adc41c6@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2016-04-26 07:18, +dime+ wrote:
> I am learning python.
> 
> if I have a csv file, like this
> banana,4.0
> apple,3.5
> orange,3.0
> 
> Can anyone show me how to read the csv file line by line and then
> create a dictionary to contain these keys and values?

import csv
with open('data.csv') as f:
  data = dict(csv.reader(f))

Hard to get much more straight-forward.

-tkc



From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Apr 26 10:40:37 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 16:40:37 +0200
Subject: how to create a dictionary from csv file?
References: <246c571e-1793-4aa6-9405-19d7a1355598@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nfnul6$du2$1@ger.gmane.org>

+dime+ wrote:

> I am learning python.
> 
> if I have a csv file, like this
> banana,4.0
> apple,3.5
> orange,3.0
> 
> Can anyone show me how to read the csv file line by line and then create a
> dictionary to contain these keys and values?

Below is a spoiler, but learning Python is more fun and you'll see success 
sooner when you try to come up with a solution yourself, present it here (or 
on the tutor mailing list) and let us fill the gaps or suggest improvements.





































>>> import csv
>>> with open("fruit.csv") as f:
...     lookup = {k: float(v) for k, v in csv.reader(f)}
... 
>>> lookup
{'orange': 3.0, 'apple': 3.5, 'banana': 4.0}
>>> 2*lookup["banana"] + 3*lookup["orange"]
17.0




From helenadm89 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 10:47:46 2016
From: helenadm89 at gmail.com (helena@rinocloud.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 07:47:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: new dataset management for python
Message-ID: <0431029d-5b23-47c1-99fd-5c6fd8e2edcf@googlegroups.com>

Hey guys,

We just launched rinocloud.com, it aims to make it easy to manage datasets in python. I hope some of you could take a look at it and give us some feedback.
We made the library to create a better way to organize datasets and parameters from simulations and experiments

Instead of just saving files, and not recording parameters, Rinocloud is an easy way to attach essentially a dict to a file object. Meaning you can save all you parameters with your data. 
With rinocloud-python you can organize your datasets locally, and if you choose too, you can upload them to Rinocloud. If you upload them you then get a full query system.

Soon we are implementing notebooks and collaboration features -so if your working in a team, you'll be able to discuss your results inside one central storage system. 

Please, let me know if you have suggestions of questions, you can get me at helena at rinocloud.com 

Cheers,
Helena
https://rinocloud.com/


From walters.justin01 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 10:51:28 2016
From: walters.justin01 at gmail.com (justin walters)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 07:51:28 -0700
Subject: how to create a dictionary from csv file?
In-Reply-To: <246c571e-1793-4aa6-9405-19d7a1355598@googlegroups.com>
References: <246c571e-1793-4aa6-9405-19d7a1355598@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAO1D73HaJWaD5KPw5+c4grEwVYPmYhJPxQeX_F9Ng4S54xvNrg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 7:18 AM, +dime+ <donald.ng at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am learning python.
>
> if I have a csv file, like this
> banana,4.0
> apple,3.5
> orange,3.0
>
> Can anyone show me how to read the csv file line by line and then create a
> dictionary to contain these keys and values?
>
>
> Regards,
> +dime+
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

It's best if you look up how to do this in the docs yourself. An even
better way would be to think about the steps necessary to do this and then
writing them down in pseudo-code. After that you can look up the
functions/tools that will help you accomplish this task. One of the most
important skills a programmer can have is called 'algorithmic thinking'.
That is, essentially, the ability to break a problem down into smaller
pieces in order to eventually solve it.


So, think about this:

What steps do you need to take to turn this csv file into a Python
dictionary object? Imagine that you were going to do this by hand. How
would you do it?


From hemla21 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 11:33:22 2016
From: hemla21 at gmail.com (Heli)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 08:33:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: installing scipy
Message-ID: <d198a3ca-dd4f-4f1d-a438-6a513aa318b9@googlegroups.com>

Hi all, 

I have a python34 installed on a windows-64bit machine. I am using Eclipse pydev editor. I need to used griddata from scipy.interpolate. 

I have installed scipy using by downloading the followng wheel file:
scipy-0.17.0-cp34-none-win_amd64

and isntalling using pip install. The install is successful, but

It seems like scipy is not installed correctly and I get the following error when trying to import and use scipy modules:

C:\Python34\Scripts>python -c "import scipy.interpolate"
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
  File "C:\Python34\lib\site-packages\scipy\interpolate\__init__.py", line 158, in <module>
    from .interpolate import *
  File "C:\Python34\lib\site-packages\scipy\interpolate\interpolate.py", line 11, in <module>
    import scipy.linalg
  File "C:\Python34\lib\site-packages\scipy\linalg\__init__.py", line 174, in <module>
    from .misc import *
  File "C:\Python34\lib\site-packages\scipy\linalg\misc.py", line 5, in <module>
    from .blas import get_blas_funcs
  File "C:\Python34\lib\site-packages\scipy\linalg\blas.py", line 155, in <module>
    from scipy.linalg import _fblas
ImportError: DLL load failed

How can I fix this problem?

Thanks, 


From subhabangalore at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 11:38:27 2016
From: subhabangalore at gmail.com (subhabangalore at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 08:38:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Question on List processing
In-Reply-To: <571e47aa$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <d0b4c737-3922-4b49-8f69-2564ba472950@googlegroups.com>
 <571e47aa$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <594d024b-7880-4d45-911e-342ec90ac54c@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 10:07:13 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 12:56 am, wrote:
> 
> > Dear Group,
> > 
> > I have a list of tuples, as follows,
> > 
> > list1=[u"('koteeswaram/BHPERSN engaged/NA himself/NA in/NA various/NA
> [... 17 more lines of data ...]
> 
> Hi Subhabrata, and thanks for the question.
> 
> Please remember that we are offering help for free, in our own time. If you
> want help from us, you should help us to help you.
> 
> It is very unlikely that many people will spend the time to study your data
> in close enough detail to understand your requirements. Please give a
> *simplified* example. Instead of 17 lines of repetitive data, use a "toy"
> example that matches the format but without all the complicated details.
> And format it so that it is easy to read:
> 
> input = [u"('a/b/ ','A')",
>          u"('z/x/ ','B')",
>          u"('b/d/ ','C')",
>          ]
> 
> output = ????
> 
> 
> 
> > I tried to make it as follows,
> [...]
> > but not helping.
> 
> What do you mean, "not helping"? What happens when you try?
> 
> Please show a *simple* example, with no more than four or five lines of
> *short, easy to read* text.
> 
> Remember, we are giving you advice and consulting for free. We are not paid
> to do this. If your questions are too difficult, boring, tedious, or
> unpleasant, we will just ignore them, so please help us to help you by
> simplifying them as much as possible.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steven

Dear Steven,

Thank you for your kind suggestion. 
I will keep it in mind.

I am trying to send you a revised example.
list1=[u"('koteeswaram/BHPERSN engaged/NA ','class1')", u"('koteeswaram/BHPERSN is/NA ','class1')"] 

[('koteeswaram/BHPERSN engaged/NA ','class1'),
 ('koteeswaram/BHPERSN is/NA  ','class1')]

I tried to make it as follows,
list2=[]
for i in list1:
        a1=unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', i).encode('ascii','ignore')
        a2=a1.replace('"',"")
        list2.append(a2)

and,

for i in list1:
        a3=i[1:-1]
        list2.append(a3)


but I am not getting desired output. 
If any one may kindly suggest how may I approach it? 

Regards,
Subhabrata 


From subhabangalore at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 11:44:24 2016
From: subhabangalore at gmail.com (subhabangalore at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 08:44:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Question on List processing
In-Reply-To: <571e47aa$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <d0b4c737-3922-4b49-8f69-2564ba472950@googlegroups.com>
 <571e47aa$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <513f320f-c4ca-406b-b203-b21fdbf0c1fc@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 10:07:13 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> 
> > Dear Group,
> > 
> > I have a list of tuples, as follows,
> > 
> > list1=[u"('koteeswaram/BHPERSN engaged/NA himself/NA in/NA various/NA
> [... 17 more lines of data ...]
> 
> Hi Subhabrata, and thanks for the question.
> 
> Please remember that we are offering help for free, in our own time. If you
> want help from us, you should help us to help you.
> 
> It is very unlikely that many people will spend the time to study your data
> in close enough detail to understand your requirements. Please give a
> *simplified* example. Instead of 17 lines of repetitive data, use a "toy"
> example that matches the format but without all the complicated details.
> And format it so that it is easy to read:
> 
> input = [u"('a/b/ ','A')",
>          u"('z/x/ ','B')",
>          u"('b/d/ ','C')",
>          ]
> 
> output = ????
> 
> 
> 
> > I tried to make it as follows,
> [...]
> > but not helping.
> 
> What do you mean, "not helping"? What happens when you try?
> 
> Please show a *simple* example, with no more than four or five lines of
> *short, easy to read* text.
> 
> Remember, we are giving you advice and consulting for free. We are not paid
> to do this. If your questions are too difficult, boring, tedious, or
> unpleasant, we will just ignore them, so please help us to help you by
> simplifying them as much as possible.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steven

Dear Steven,

Thank you for your kind suggestion. 
I am trying to send you a revised example.

I have a list as, 
list1=[u"('koteeswaram/BHPERSN engaged/NA ','class1')", u"('koteeswaram/BHPERSN is/NA ','class1')"]

I like to convert it as, 

list1=[('koteeswaram/BHPERSN engaged/NA ','class1'),
 ('koteeswaram/BHPERSN is/NA  ','class1')]

I tried to make it as follows,
list2=[]
for i in list1:
        a1=unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', i).encode('ascii','ignore')
        a2=a1.replace('"',"")
        list2.append(a2)

and,

for i in list1:
        a3=i[1:-1]
        list2.append(a3)


but I am not getting desired output. 
If any one may kindly suggest how may I approach it? 

Regards,
Subhabrata 


From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 26 11:46:26 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 01:46:26 +1000
Subject: Why does pathlib not have is_readable() & things like that?
References: <6474vcx0q6.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
Message-ID: <571f8d53$0$1608$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:30 pm, Adam Funk wrote:

> I recently discovered pathlib in the Python 3 standard library, & find
> it very useful, but I'm a bit surprised that it doesn't offer things
> like is_readable() and is_writable.  Is there a good reason for that?

Maybe nobody thought of it. Why don't you propose a feature request on the
bug tracker?

> I've been improvising with things like this:
> 
> import pathlib, os
> 
> path = pathlib.Path('some/directory')
> writable = os.access(str(path), os.W_OK | os.X_OK)
> 
> Is that the best way to do it?

No. All you have learned is that the directory is writable *now*. In a
millisecond, or a minute, when you actually go to write to it, it may no
longer be writable -- it may not even exist.

There is a whole class of serious security vulnerabilities and bugs caused
by the difference between the time you check something and the time you
actually use it. "Time of check to time of use" bugs can be best avoided by
not checking ahead of time whether the directory is writable, but just
*attempting to write to it*, and catching the error if you can't.




-- 
Steven



From random832 at fastmail.com  Tue Apr 26 11:49:28 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:49:28 -0400
Subject: Question on List processing
In-Reply-To: <594d024b-7880-4d45-911e-342ec90ac54c@googlegroups.com>
References: <d0b4c737-3922-4b49-8f69-2564ba472950@googlegroups.com>
 <571e47aa$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <594d024b-7880-4d45-911e-342ec90ac54c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1461685768.2496584.590158745.357656B9@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016, at 11:38, subhabangalore at gmail.com wrote:
> I am trying to send you a revised example.
> list1=[u"('koteeswaram/BHPERSN engaged/NA ','class1')",
> u"('koteeswaram/BHPERSN is/NA ','class1')"] 
> 
> [('koteeswaram/BHPERSN engaged/NA ','class1'),
>  ('koteeswaram/BHPERSN is/NA  ','class1')]
> 
> I tried to make it as follows,
> list2=[]
> for i in list1:
>         a1=unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', i).encode('ascii','ignore')
>         a2=a1.replace('"',"")
>         list2.append(a2)

I think you're still a bit confused. The values don't actually contain
'"' (or 'u'), that's just an indicator that they're strings. You can't
turn a string into something else just by removing the quotes. Look at
the ast.literal_eval function as others have recommended.


From peakgraphicz at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 12:01:23 2016
From: peakgraphicz at gmail.com (peakgraphicz at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:01:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Howw to prevent the duplication of any value in a column within a CSV
 file (python)
Message-ID: <75e5d8dc-e15b-4350-95e8-490abd4aa14f@googlegroups.com>

I am wondering how to make my code function so it does not allow any of the same values to be entered into a column in my CSV file created through python. So I need to read into the CSV file and check if any names have already been entered. If they have, the user must not be allowed to enter this value.

Thanks in advance!


From Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com  Tue Apr 26 12:07:19 2016
From: Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com (Joaquin Alzola)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 16:07:19 +0000
Subject: Howw to prevent the duplication of any value in a column within a
 CSV file (python)
In-Reply-To: <75e5d8dc-e15b-4350-95e8-490abd4aa14f@googlegroups.com>
References: <75e5d8dc-e15b-4350-95e8-490abd4aa14f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR07MB1356CCDD91381717D3F7EF93F0630@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>

import csv

Use dictionary {key:value}

-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+joaquin.alzola=lebara.com at python.org] On Behalf Of peakgraphicz at gmail.com
Sent: 26 April 2016 17:01
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Howw to prevent the duplication of any value in a column within a CSV file (python)

I am wondering how to make my code function so it does not allow any of the same values to be entered into a column in my CSV file created through python. So I need to read into the CSV file and check if any names have already been entered. If they have, the user must not be allowed to enter this value.

Thanks in advance!
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
This email is confidential and may be subject to privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not copy or disclose its content but contact the sender immediately upon receipt.


From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 12:08:47 2016
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 12:08:47 -0400
Subject: Howw to prevent the duplication of any value in a column within a
 CSV file (python)
In-Reply-To: <75e5d8dc-e15b-4350-95e8-490abd4aa14f@googlegroups.com>
References: <75e5d8dc-e15b-4350-95e8-490abd4aa14f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+yQKdR4-7QT3-Ru7gyfOP9xCFMpZgtGYZWVFDN9v7o1vg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 12:01 PM,  <peakgraphicz at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am wondering how to make my code function so it does not allow any of the same values to be entered into a column in my CSV file created through python. So I need to read into the CSV file and check if any names have already been entered. If they have, the user must not be allowed to enter this value.
>
> Thanks in advance!
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Show your code and a few lines of your file with useful data.  Show
the result you want

-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays


From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 26 12:12:16 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 02:12:16 +1000
Subject: def __init__(self):
References: <34e51ef5-9679-40ec-bc8f-47981353e9d7@googlegroups.com>
 <571F1361.3010402@digipen.edu> <85eg9sn7qo.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.100.1461656092.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh40pyik.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <571f9362$0$1602$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 06:25 pm, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au>:
> 
>> Gary Herron <gherron at digipen.edu> writes:
>>
>>>    The __init__ method is the constructor for instances of a class.
>>>    It is not required, but the situations in which a constructor is
>>>    not needed are few and unusual.
>>
>> That's needlessly confusing: ?__init__? is not a constructor because
>> it does not construct the instance. The ?__new__? method is the
>> constructor for a class (and returns the new instance).
> 
> I have never ever had a temptation to specify a __new__ method. I can't
> imagine a *beneficial* case of overriding it.

I'm afraid that's a failure of your imagination then.

The obvious reason for overriding __new__ is to construct an immutable
instance. You have to override __new__, because by the time it returns the
instance is immutable and you can no longer initialise it.


>> The ?__init__? method requests the already-constructed instance to
>> initialise itself (and returns None).
> 
> It is a serious practical problem that an object can't guarantee that
> its __init__ has been called.

No object can guarantee that any method is called. Python doesn't make an
exception for __new__ or __init__. I'm not sure why you would want it to.


> Check out some of the stdlib source code for example:
> 
> ========================================================================
> class ThreadPoolExecutor(_base.Executor):
>     def __init__(self, max_workers):
>         """Initializes a new ThreadPoolExecutor instance.
> 
>         Args:
>             max_workers: The maximum number of threads that can be used to
>                 execute the given calls.
>         """
>         self._max_workers = max_workers
>         self._work_queue = queue.Queue()
>         self._threads = set()
>         self._shutdown = False
>         self._shutdown_lock = threading.Lock()
> ========================================================================
> 
> Notice how _base.Executor.__init__(self) does not get called. 

What makes you think it needs to be called?


> It can only work if _base.Executor does not specify an __init__. 

That's not the only way. For example, if the __init__ doesn't nothing, just
like object.__init__. You can actually pass anything you like to
object.__init__, and nothing happens:

object.__init__([])




-- 
Steven



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 12:13:38 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:13:38 -0600
Subject: Howw to prevent the duplication of any value in a column within a
 CSV file (python)
In-Reply-To: <75e5d8dc-e15b-4350-95e8-490abd4aa14f@googlegroups.com>
References: <75e5d8dc-e15b-4350-95e8-490abd4aa14f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidm6yaZKzMLmwvKzFyQ7rvhASp3vPmDA-CYG=iS9YokFuA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 10:01 AM,  <peakgraphicz at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am wondering how to make my code function so it does not allow any of the same values to be entered into a column in my CSV file created through python. So I need to read into the CSV file and check if any names have already been entered. If they have, the user must not be allowed to enter this value.

Assuming the file is reasonably small enough to fit into memory,
create a set and populate it with the values in the column. When the
user enters a new value, check whether it's already in the set.


From David.Aldrich at EMEA.NEC.COM  Tue Apr 26 12:20:04 2016
From: David.Aldrich at EMEA.NEC.COM (David Aldrich)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 16:20:04 +0000
Subject: How to read from serial port?
Message-ID: <41302A7145AC054FA7A96CFD03835A0A0BAC66F9@EX10MBX02.EU.NEC.COM>

Hi

I have written a very simple program to read and print data from the serial port using pyserial:

#!/usr/bin/python3
import serial

ser=serial.Serial('COM1',115200)
while True:
    out = ser.read()
    print('Receiving...'+out)

When I run it and send data for it to read I get:

C:\SVNProj\Raggio\trunk\hostconsole\gui\prototypes\serial_test>py serial_read.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "serial_read.py", line 9, in <module>
    print('Receiving...'+out)
TypeError: Can't convert 'bytes' object to str implicitly

I am using Python 3.5.  How would I fix this error please?

Best regards

David



From random832 at fastmail.com  Tue Apr 26 12:26:07 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 12:26:07 -0400
Subject: def __init__(self):
In-Reply-To: <571f9362$0$1602$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <34e51ef5-9679-40ec-bc8f-47981353e9d7@googlegroups.com>
 <571F1361.3010402@digipen.edu> <85eg9sn7qo.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.100.1461656092.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh40pyik.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <571f9362$0$1602$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1461687967.2507874.590200129.102244C8@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016, at 12:12, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> The obvious reason for overriding __new__ is to construct an immutable
> instance. You have to override __new__, because by the time it returns
> the
> instance is immutable and you can no longer initialise it.

Other than by subclassing an existing immutable type written in C, is it
actually possible to define a truly-immutable (rather than
contract-immutable) class in python?

(Of course, subclassing immutable C types is the more obvious answer to
when you have to override __new__).


From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 26 12:29:33 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 02:29:33 +1000
Subject: Question on List processing
References: <d0b4c737-3922-4b49-8f69-2564ba472950@googlegroups.com>
 <571e47aa$0$1588$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <594d024b-7880-4d45-911e-342ec90ac54c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <571f976e$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 01:38 am, subhabangalore at gmail.com wrote:


> I am trying to send you a revised example.
> list1=[u"('koteeswaram/BHPERSN engaged/NA ','class1')",
> u"('koteeswaram/BHPERSN is/NA ','class1')"]


Please don't use generic names that mean nothing like "list1". We can see it
is a list, but what is it for? Use a name that describes what the purpose
of the list is. Even "input" and "output" are better names.


> [('koteeswaram/BHPERSN engaged/NA ','class1'),
>  ('koteeswaram/BHPERSN is/NA  ','class1')]

What is this? The output? Don't make us guess what things are.

My *guess* is that you have a list of Unicode strings that look like this:

u"('aaa/TAG bbb/TAG ','class1')"

and you want to do six things:

- normalise the string;

- convert the Unicode string to ASCII, ignoring anything that isn't ASCII;

- delete the parentheses in the string;

- delete the leading and trailing single quotes;

- split the string on the comma;

- combine them into a tuple.


So let's make some functions:

# Untested
def remove_parentheses(string):
    if string.startswith("(") and string.endswith(")"):
        string = string[1:-1]
    return string

def remove_single_quotes(string):
    if string.startswith("'") and string.endswith("'"):
        string = string[1:-1]
    return string

def convert(string):
    if not isinstance(string, unicode):
        raise TypeError("expected unicode, but got %s" 
                        % type(string).__name__)
    string = unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', string)
    string = string.encode('ascii','ignore')
    string = remove_parentheses(string)
    first_part, second_part = string.split(",")
    first_part = remove_single_quotes(first_part)
    second_part = remove_single_quotes(second_part)
    return (first_part, second_part)


input = [ ... ]  # your input strings
output = []
for string in input:
    output.append(convert(string))





-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 26 12:32:53 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 02:32:53 +1000
Subject: def __init__(self):
References: <34e51ef5-9679-40ec-bc8f-47981353e9d7@googlegroups.com>
 <571F1361.3010402@digipen.edu> <85eg9sn7qo.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.100.1461656092.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh40pyik.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <571f9362$0$1602$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1461687967.2507874.590200129.102244C8@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.114.1461687970.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <571f9836$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 02:26 am, Random832 wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016, at 12:12, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> The obvious reason for overriding __new__ is to construct an immutable
>> instance. You have to override __new__, because by the time it returns
>> the
>> instance is immutable and you can no longer initialise it.
> 
> Other than by subclassing an existing immutable type written in C, is it
> actually possible to define a truly-immutable (rather than
> contract-immutable) class in python?

No.

Subclassing immutable built-ins is the most obvious and simple (and probably
common) way to get an immutable class. Actually immutable, short of doing
wicked things with ctypes.


> (Of course, subclassing immutable C types is the more obvious answer to
> when you have to override __new__).

Indeed.


-- 
Steven



From marko at pacujo.net  Tue Apr 26 12:38:39 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 19:38:39 +0300
Subject: def __init__(self):
References: <34e51ef5-9679-40ec-bc8f-47981353e9d7@googlegroups.com>
 <571F1361.3010402@digipen.edu> <85eg9sn7qo.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.100.1461656092.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh40pyik.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <571f9362$0$1602$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87inz4uxyo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>:

> On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 06:25 pm, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> Check out some of the stdlib source code for example:
>> 
>> ========================================================================
>> class ThreadPoolExecutor(_base.Executor):
>>     def __init__(self, max_workers):
>>         """Initializes a new ThreadPoolExecutor instance.
>> 
>>         Args:
>>             max_workers: The maximum number of threads that can be used to
>>                 execute the given calls.
>>         """
>>         self._max_workers = max_workers
>>         self._work_queue = queue.Queue()
>>         self._threads = set()
>>         self._shutdown = False
>>         self._shutdown_lock = threading.Lock()
>> ========================================================================
>> 
>> Notice how _base.Executor.__init__(self) does not get called. 
>
> What makes you think it needs to be called?

I would think that's somewhat of an axiom. Whenever I derive from a
class, I consider it mandatory to delegate to its __init__ if my class
specifies an __init__ itself.

Otherwise, the underlying class must make a point to emphasize in its
API documentation that __init__ is not needed. And the underlying class
would be foolish to make such a contract because that would tie its
hands in case the class needs refactoring in the future.

Are you saying something else?

See also <URL: https://docs.python.org/3/reference/datamodel.html?highlig
ht=__init__#object.__init__>:

   If a base class has an __init__() method, the derived class?s
   __init__() method, if any, must explicitly call it to ensure proper
   initialization of the base class part of the instance

I'm saying the derived class *must not* make any conclusions on the
presence or absence of __init__ in the base class because that would be
a gross violation of encapsulation.


Marko


From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Tue Apr 26 12:59:39 2016
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:59:39 -0700
Subject: def __init__(self):
In-Reply-To: <571f9836$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <34e51ef5-9679-40ec-bc8f-47981353e9d7@googlegroups.com>
 <571F1361.3010402@digipen.edu> <85eg9sn7qo.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.100.1461656092.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh40pyik.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <571f9362$0$1602$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1461687967.2507874.590200129.102244C8@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.114.1461687970.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <571f9836$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxtRM+Qd983o2eB2SC4Hk0EsU26t-zbOQFW23a27Z3gx3Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 9:32 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>
wrote:

> Subclassing immutable built-ins is the most obvious and simple (and
> probably
> common) way to get an immutable class. Actually immutable, short of doing
> wicked things with ctypes.
>

By wicked things with ctypes, do you mean something like this? By no means
do I suggest this actually be used by anybody for any reason.

Tested with '2.7.10 (default, Jul 14 2015, 19:46:27) \n[GCC 4.2.1
Compatible Apple LLVM 6.0 (clang-600.0.39)]'

import ctypes
def changeTuple(tuple, index, newValue):
    obj = ctypes.cast(id(tuple), ctypes.POINTER(ctypes.c_long))
    obj[3+index] = id(newValue)

>>> a = ('a','b','c')
>>> changeTuple(a, 0, 1)
>>> a
(1, 'b', 'c')
>>> changeTuple(a, 1, 3)
>>> a
(1, 3, 'c')

Chris


From peakgraphicz at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 13:00:52 2016
From: peakgraphicz at gmail.com (Adam Davis)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:00:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Howw to prevent the duplication of any value in a column within a
 CSV file (python)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.113.1461687261.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <75e5d8dc-e15b-4350-95e8-490abd4aa14f@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidm6yaZKzMLmwvKzFyQ7rvhASp3vPmDA-CYG=iS9YokFuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.113.1461687261.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <514e507d-42de-400e-b999-14605c4456e8@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 17:14:36 UTC+1, Ian  wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 10:01 AM,  <peakgraphicz at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I am wondering how to make my code function so it does not allow any of the same values to be entered into a column in my CSV file created through python. So I need to read into the CSV file and check if any names have already been entered. If they have, the user must not be allowed to enter this value.
> 
> Assuming the file is reasonably small enough to fit into memory,
> create a set and populate it with the values in the column. When the
> user enters a new value, check whether it's already in the set.

That's exactly what I want to do, however, I'm unsure how to check whether it's in the set?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 13:04:07 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 03:04:07 +1000
Subject: def __init__(self):
In-Reply-To: <CALvWhxtRM+Qd983o2eB2SC4Hk0EsU26t-zbOQFW23a27Z3gx3Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34e51ef5-9679-40ec-bc8f-47981353e9d7@googlegroups.com>
 <571F1361.3010402@digipen.edu> <85eg9sn7qo.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.100.1461656092.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh40pyik.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <571f9362$0$1602$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1461687967.2507874.590200129.102244C8@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.114.1461687970.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <571f9836$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CALvWhxtRM+Qd983o2eB2SC4Hk0EsU26t-zbOQFW23a27Z3gx3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoaJWHaXz_6jVoGzCm9Y4C+b5a=4C8gHoxt9B=jxQpJGQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 2:59 AM, Chris Kaynor <ckaynor at zindagigames.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 9:32 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>
> wrote:
>
>> Subclassing immutable built-ins is the most obvious and simple (and
>> probably
>> common) way to get an immutable class. Actually immutable, short of doing
>> wicked things with ctypes.
>>
>
> By wicked things with ctypes, do you mean something like this? By no means
> do I suggest this actually be used by anybody for any reason.
>
> Tested with '2.7.10 (default, Jul 14 2015, 19:46:27) \n[GCC 4.2.1
> Compatible Apple LLVM 6.0 (clang-600.0.39)]'
>
> import ctypes
> def changeTuple(tuple, index, newValue):
>     obj = ctypes.cast(id(tuple), ctypes.POINTER(ctypes.c_long))
>     obj[3+index] = id(newValue)
>
>>>> a = ('a','b','c')
>>>> changeTuple(a, 0, 1)
>>>> a
> (1, 'b', 'c')
>>>> changeTuple(a, 1, 3)
>>>> a
> (1, 3, 'c')

Yeah. By the look of things, you've just destroyed the reference counts.

>>> a = ('a','b','c')
>>> b = object()
>>> changeTuple(a, 0, b)
>>> a
(<object object at 0x7f1240b22080>, 'b', 'c')
>>> del b
>>> a
Segmentation fault

ChrisA


From peakgraphicz at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 13:05:00 2016
From: peakgraphicz at gmail.com (Adam Davis)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:05:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Howw to prevent the duplication of any value in a column within a
 CSV file (python)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.112.1461686936.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <75e5d8dc-e15b-4350-95e8-490abd4aa14f@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPM-O+yQKdR4-7QT3-Ru7gyfOP9xCFMpZgtGYZWVFDN9v7o1vg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.112.1461686936.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <25b35d39-4163-414c-9495-f2ed4a2a90a8@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 17:09:10 UTC+1, Joel Goldstick  wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 12:01 PM,  <peakgraphicz at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I am wondering how to make my code function so it does not allow any of the same values to be entered into a column in my CSV file created through python. So I need to read into the CSV file and check if any names have already been entered. If they have, the user must not be allowed to enter this value.
> >
> > Thanks in advance!
> > --
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> Show your code and a few lines of your file with useful data.  Show
> the result you want
> 
> -- 
> Joel Goldstick
> http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
> http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays

Here's my section of code:

with open(class_code+".csv", 'a') as csvfile:
        fieldnames = ["Name", "Score 1", "Score 2", "Score 3", "Average"]
        writer = csv.DictWriter(csvfile, fieldnames=fieldnames)
        #writer.writeheader()
        writer.writerow({"Name": name, "Score 1": score1, "Score 2": score2, "Score 3": score3})

It prints when requested as:

Adam,1,0,0,0.3333333333333333
Jake,9,10,6,8.333333333333334
Tom,5,3,3,3.6666666666666665

So basically, if anyone called Adam, Jake or Tom tries the quiz again, it will not let them.
Thanks


From peakgraphicz at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 13:05:17 2016
From: peakgraphicz at gmail.com (Adam Davis)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:05:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Howw to prevent the duplication of any value in a column within a
 CSV file (python)
In-Reply-To: <75e5d8dc-e15b-4350-95e8-490abd4aa14f@googlegroups.com>
References: <75e5d8dc-e15b-4350-95e8-490abd4aa14f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <531e2dda-c522-4b11-a030-f3f37078f344@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 17:01:41 UTC+1, Adam Davis  wrote:
> I am wondering how to make my code function so it does not allow any of the same values to be entered into a column in my CSV file created through python. So I need to read into the CSV file and check if any names have already been entered. If they have, the user must not be allowed to enter this value.
> 
> Thanks in advance!

Here's my section of code:

with open(class_code+".csv", 'a') as csvfile:
        fieldnames = ["Name", "Score 1", "Score 2", "Score 3", "Average"]
        writer = csv.DictWriter(csvfile, fieldnames=fieldnames)
        #writer.writeheader()
        writer.writerow({"Name": name, "Score 1": score1, "Score 2": score2, "Score 3": score3})

It prints when requested as:

Adam,1,0,0,0.3333333333333333
Jake,9,10,6,8.333333333333334
Tom,5,3,3,3.6666666666666665

So basically, if anyone called Adam, Jake or Tom tries the quiz again, it will not let them.
Thanks


From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Tue Apr 26 13:13:40 2016
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:13:40 -0700
Subject: def __init__(self):
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmoaJWHaXz_6jVoGzCm9Y4C+b5a=4C8gHoxt9B=jxQpJGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34e51ef5-9679-40ec-bc8f-47981353e9d7@googlegroups.com>
 <571F1361.3010402@digipen.edu> <85eg9sn7qo.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.100.1461656092.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh40pyik.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <571f9362$0$1602$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1461687967.2507874.590200129.102244C8@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.114.1461687970.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <571f9836$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CALvWhxtRM+Qd983o2eB2SC4Hk0EsU26t-zbOQFW23a27Z3gx3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmoaJWHaXz_6jVoGzCm9Y4C+b5a=4C8gHoxt9B=jxQpJGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxs4wk0c=PQrB7E6+KVQ5=mgo2At7HSP3_5v39t1jgeprw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 2:59 AM, Chris Kaynor <ckaynor at zindagigames.com>
> wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 9:32 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Subclassing immutable built-ins is the most obvious and simple (and
> >> probably
> >> common) way to get an immutable class. Actually immutable, short of
> doing
> >> wicked things with ctypes.
> >>
> >
> > By wicked things with ctypes, do you mean something like this? By no
> means
> > do I suggest this actually be used by anybody for any reason.
> >
> > Tested with '2.7.10 (default, Jul 14 2015, 19:46:27) \n[GCC 4.2.1
> > Compatible Apple LLVM 6.0 (clang-600.0.39)]'
> >
> > import ctypes
> > def changeTuple(tuple, index, newValue):
> >     obj = ctypes.cast(id(tuple), ctypes.POINTER(ctypes.c_long))
> >     obj[3+index] = id(newValue)
> >
> >>>> a = ('a','b','c')
> >>>> changeTuple(a, 0, 1)
> >>>> a
> > (1, 'b', 'c')
> >>>> changeTuple(a, 1, 3)
> >>>> a
> > (1, 3, 'c')
>
> Yeah. By the look of things, you've just destroyed the reference counts.
>
> >>> a = ('a','b','c')
> >>> b = object()
> >>> changeTuple(a, 0, b)
> >>> a
> (<object object at 0x7f1240b22080>, 'b', 'c')
> >>> del b
> >>> a
> Segmentation fault
>

Yah, if you really wanted to make it work properly, you'd need to incref
the newValue, while decref the oldValue. The incref would not be that
difficult, but the decref would be more challenging, as you may have to
also destroy the old object, though that might be possible by casting it
back to a python object without the incref,. One way or the other, I did
not exactly spend a ton of time to make it work properly :)


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 13:26:46 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:26:46 -0600
Subject: def __init__(self):
In-Reply-To: <CALvWhxs4wk0c=PQrB7E6+KVQ5=mgo2At7HSP3_5v39t1jgeprw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34e51ef5-9679-40ec-bc8f-47981353e9d7@googlegroups.com>
 <571F1361.3010402@digipen.edu> <85eg9sn7qo.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.100.1461656092.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh40pyik.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <571f9362$0$1602$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1461687967.2507874.590200129.102244C8@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.114.1461687970.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <571f9836$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CALvWhxtRM+Qd983o2eB2SC4Hk0EsU26t-zbOQFW23a27Z3gx3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmoaJWHaXz_6jVoGzCm9Y4C+b5a=4C8gHoxt9B=jxQpJGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALvWhxs4wk0c=PQrB7E6+KVQ5=mgo2At7HSP3_5v39t1jgeprw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmtHqdcMRP8+saxDORZvGn1BVmMGJzc7o_gxLT8+QdC7w@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Chris Kaynor <ckaynor at zindagigames.com> wrote:
> Yah, if you really wanted to make it work properly, you'd need to incref
> the newValue, while decref the oldValue. The incref would not be that
> difficult, but the decref would be more challenging, as you may have to
> also destroy the old object, though that might be possible by casting it
> back to a python object without the incref,. One way or the other, I did
> not exactly spend a ton of time to make it work properly :)

For the decref I'd probably just decrement it and leave it; if it's
zero, the garbage collector will eventually take care of it.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 13:30:02 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 03:30:02 +1000
Subject: def __init__(self):
In-Reply-To: <CALvWhxs4wk0c=PQrB7E6+KVQ5=mgo2At7HSP3_5v39t1jgeprw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34e51ef5-9679-40ec-bc8f-47981353e9d7@googlegroups.com>
 <571F1361.3010402@digipen.edu> <85eg9sn7qo.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.100.1461656092.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh40pyik.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <571f9362$0$1602$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1461687967.2507874.590200129.102244C8@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.114.1461687970.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <571f9836$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CALvWhxtRM+Qd983o2eB2SC4Hk0EsU26t-zbOQFW23a27Z3gx3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmoaJWHaXz_6jVoGzCm9Y4C+b5a=4C8gHoxt9B=jxQpJGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALvWhxs4wk0c=PQrB7E6+KVQ5=mgo2At7HSP3_5v39t1jgeprw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq2MxpR3VZPi5H-4Y6VAXy=1Jcfo7u0x2O2sP7uyzsDMQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Chris Kaynor <ckaynor at zindagigames.com> wrote:
> Yah, if you really wanted to make it work properly, you'd need to incref
> the newValue, while decref the oldValue. The incref would not be that
> difficult, but the decref would be more challenging, as you may have to
> also destroy the old object, though that might be possible by casting it
> back to a python object without the incref,. One way or the other, I did
> not exactly spend a ton of time to make it work properly :)

Exactly. :) Actually, the easiest fix is probably this:

import ctypes
def low_change_tuple(tuple, index, newValue):
    obj = ctypes.cast(id(tuple), ctypes.POINTER(ctypes.c_long))
    obj[3+index] = id(newValue)

def change_tuple(tup, idx, val):
    dummy = (val,)
    low_change_tuple(dummy, 0, tup[idx])
    low_change_tuple(tup, idx, val)

Refcounts are handled by the switch.

ChrisA


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Apr 26 13:58:19 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 19:58:19 +0200
Subject: How to read from serial port?
References: <41302A7145AC054FA7A96CFD03835A0A0BAC66F9@EX10MBX02.EU.NEC.COM>
Message-ID: <nfoa7v$mbc$1@ger.gmane.org>

David Aldrich wrote:

> Hi
> 
> I have written a very simple program to read and print data from the
> serial port using pyserial:
> 
> #!/usr/bin/python3
> import serial
> 
> ser=serial.Serial('COM1',115200)
> while True:
>     out = ser.read()
>     print('Receiving...'+out)
> 
> When I run it and send data for it to read I get:
> 
> C:\SVNProj\Raggio\trunk\hostconsole\gui\prototypes\serial_test>py
> serial_read.py Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "serial_read.py", line 9, in <module>
>     print('Receiving...'+out)
> TypeError: Can't convert 'bytes' object to str implicitly
> 
> I am using Python 3.5.  How would I fix this error please?

Look at the traceback again. The line

>     out = ser.read()

is executed, you are reading successfully. What fails is

>     print('Receiving...'+out)

You are trying to concatenate a (unicode) string and bytes, like in

>>> print("foo" + b"bar")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: Can't convert 'bytes' object to str implicitly

You can avoid that by printing the string and the bytes independently

>>> print("foo", b"bar")
foo b'bar'

If you don't like the b"..." stuff and want to treat the bytes as text 
rather than data you can decode them:

>>> print("foo", b"bar".decode())
foo bar

For more see <https://docs.python.org/3/howto/unicode.html>.




From bigbadmick2000 at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 26 14:16:56 2016
From: bigbadmick2000 at hotmail.com (Michael)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 19:16:56 +0100
Subject: Python path and append
Message-ID: <DUB116-W85F8F15123A15716395CA7CA630@phx.gbl>

If you want to read an entire file, append a space and asterisk and write it to another file, this is the code you need:

infile = open('win.txt', 'r')
text = f.read()
infile.close()
text += " *"
outfile = open('outfile.txt', 'w')
outfile.write(text)
outfile.close()

If, on the other hand, you wish to read a file and append a space and asterisk TO THE END OF EVERY LINE, you require the following code:
infile = open('win.txt', 'r')
lines = infile.readlines()
infile.close()
outfile = open('outfile.txt', 'w')
for line in lines:
    line = line.strip() + " *\n"
    outfile.write(line)
outfile.close()

Hope that helps!

BigBadMick
bigbadmick2000 at hotmail.com 		 	   		  

From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 14:29:53 2016
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 18:29:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to read from serial port?
References: <41302A7145AC054FA7A96CFD03835A0A0BAC66F9@EX10MBX02.EU.NEC.COM>
Message-ID: <nfoc30$cr8$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2016-04-26, David Aldrich <David.Aldrich at EMEA.NEC.COM> wrote:

> #!/usr/bin/python3
> import serial
>
> ser=serial.Serial('COM1',115200)
> while True:
>     out = ser.read()
>     print('Receiving...'+out)
>
> When I run it and send data for it to read I get:

> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "serial_read.py", line 9, in <module>
>     print('Receiving...'+out)
> TypeError: Can't convert 'bytes' object to str implicitly

Try this:

  print('Receiving...',out)

If you want to convert the bytes you read from the serial port into a
string, you need to decode they bytes (and you have to specify what
encoding to use):

  print('Receiving...' + out.decode('ascii'))

If you google 'Python 3 bytes strings' you should find a bunch of info:

https://docs.python.org/3.5/library/stdtypes.html
http://www.diveintopython3.net/strings.html
http://pythoncentral.io/encoding-and-decoding-strings-in-python-3-x/
https://www.safaribooksonline.com/library/view/fluent-python/9781491946237/ch04.html

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I haven't been married
                                  at               in over six years, but we
                              gmail.com            had sexual counseling every
                                                   day from Oral Roberts!!



From Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com  Tue Apr 26 15:05:37 2016
From: Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com (Joaquin Alzola)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 19:05:37 +0000
Subject: Howw to prevent the duplication of any value in a column within a
 CSV file (python)
In-Reply-To: <531e2dda-c522-4b11-a030-f3f37078f344@googlegroups.com>
References: <75e5d8dc-e15b-4350-95e8-490abd4aa14f@googlegroups.com>
 <531e2dda-c522-4b11-a030-f3f37078f344@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR07MB13561533B5D2DEE4B31F9AA9F0630@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Just an example. Didn't use the csv but just hope that it helps.

name=[]
name_exist="Dop"

with open("dop.csv") as f:
        for line in f:
                line_split=line.split(',')
                name.append(line_strip[0])
        if name_exist in name:
                print "found name " + name_exist + " Can not append"
        else:
                file = open("dop.csv",'a')
                print "No name found"
                file.write(name_exist)
file.close()

-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+joaquin.alzola=lebara.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Adam Davis
Sent: 26 April 2016 18:05
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Howw to prevent the duplication of any value in a column within a CSV file (python)

On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 17:01:41 UTC+1, Adam Davis  wrote:
> I am wondering how to make my code function so it does not allow any of the same values to be entered into a column in my CSV file created through python. So I need to read into the CSV file and check if any names have already been entered. If they have, the user must not be allowed to enter this value.
>
> Thanks in advance!

Here's my section of code:

with open(class_code+".csv", 'a') as csvfile:
        fieldnames = ["Name", "Score 1", "Score 2", "Score 3", "Average"]
        writer = csv.DictWriter(csvfile, fieldnames=fieldnames)
        #writer.writeheader()
        writer.writerow({"Name": name, "Score 1": score1, "Score 2": score2, "Score 3": score3})

It prints when requested as:

Adam,1,0,0,0.3333333333333333
Jake,9,10,6,8.333333333333334
Tom,5,3,3,3.6666666666666665

So basically, if anyone called Adam, Jake or Tom tries the quiz again, it will not let them.
Thanks
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
This email is confidential and may be subject to privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not copy or disclose its content but contact the sender immediately upon receipt.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 15:50:20 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:50:20 -0600
Subject: Howw to prevent the duplication of any value in a column within a
 CSV file (python)
In-Reply-To: <514e507d-42de-400e-b999-14605c4456e8@googlegroups.com>
References: <75e5d8dc-e15b-4350-95e8-490abd4aa14f@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidm6yaZKzMLmwvKzFyQ7rvhASp3vPmDA-CYG=iS9YokFuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.113.1461687261.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <514e507d-42de-400e-b999-14605c4456e8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkHwpnNgtLR78tgbeurh-aRLMaVqjJ6GWFfXDQMBk84mg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Adam Davis <peakgraphicz at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 17:14:36 UTC+1, Ian  wrote:
>> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 10:01 AM,  <peakgraphicz at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I am wondering how to make my code function so it does not allow any of the same values to be entered into a column in my CSV file created through python. So I need to read into the CSV file and check if any names have already been entered. If they have, the user must not be allowed to enter this value.
>>
>> Assuming the file is reasonably small enough to fit into memory,
>> create a set and populate it with the values in the column. When the
>> user enters a new value, check whether it's already in the set.
>
> That's exactly what I want to do, however, I'm unsure how to check whether it's in the set?

if value in the_set:
    # Forbid the value.
else:
    # Allow the value.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 15:51:58 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:51:58 -0600
Subject: Howw to prevent the duplication of any value in a column within a
 CSV file (python)
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR07MB13561533B5D2DEE4B31F9AA9F0630@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <75e5d8dc-e15b-4350-95e8-490abd4aa14f@googlegroups.com>
 <531e2dda-c522-4b11-a030-f3f37078f344@googlegroups.com>
 <HE1PR07MB13561533B5D2DEE4B31F9AA9F0630@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidn=KRgvWZq9jc+G5hT6dxDOOjkYZLTbjLR6qNh82m2_LA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Joaquin Alzola
<Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com> wrote:
> Just an example. Didn't use the csv but just hope that it helps.
>
> name=[]
> name_exist="Dop"
>
> with open("dop.csv") as f:
>         for line in f:
>                 line_split=line.split(',')
>                 name.append(line_strip[0])
>         if name_exist in name:
>                 print "found name " + name_exist + " Can not append"
>         else:
>                 file = open("dop.csv",'a')
>                 print "No name found"
>                 file.write(name_exist)
> file.close()

Except that as noted elsewhere in the thread a set would be a better
choice than a list, since checking membership is much faster on a set.


From peakgraphicz at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 16:07:39 2016
From: peakgraphicz at gmail.com (Adam Davis)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:07:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Howw to prevent the duplication of any value in a column within a
 CSV file (python)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.127.1461700361.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <75e5d8dc-e15b-4350-95e8-490abd4aa14f@googlegroups.com>
 <531e2dda-c522-4b11-a030-f3f37078f344@googlegroups.com>
 <HE1PR07MB13561533B5D2DEE4B31F9AA9F0630@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <CALwzidn=KRgvWZq9jc+G5hT6dxDOOjkYZLTbjLR6qNh82m2_LA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.127.1461700361.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <49f4ffd8-d140-4f1b-95a9-75cb122e8b2f@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 20:52:54 UTC+1, Ian  wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Joaquin Alzola
> <Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com> wrote:
> > Just an example. Didn't use the csv but just hope that it helps.
> >
> > name=[]
> > name_exist="Dop"
> >
> > with open("dop.csv") as f:
> >         for line in f:
> >                 line_split=line.split(',')
> >                 name.append(line_strip[0])
> >         if name_exist in name:
> >                 print "found name " + name_exist + " Can not append"
> >         else:
> >                 file = open("dop.csv",'a')
> >                 print "No name found"
> >                 file.write(name_exist)
> > file.close()
> 
> Except that as noted elsewhere in the thread a set would be a better
> choice than a list, since checking membership is much faster on a set.

Thanks for your help Ian. I'm a beginner right now, could you instruct me as to how I would create a set?


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 16:19:20 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 14:19:20 -0600
Subject: Howw to prevent the duplication of any value in a column within a
 CSV file (python)
In-Reply-To: <49f4ffd8-d140-4f1b-95a9-75cb122e8b2f@googlegroups.com>
References: <75e5d8dc-e15b-4350-95e8-490abd4aa14f@googlegroups.com>
 <531e2dda-c522-4b11-a030-f3f37078f344@googlegroups.com>
 <HE1PR07MB13561533B5D2DEE4B31F9AA9F0630@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <CALwzidn=KRgvWZq9jc+G5hT6dxDOOjkYZLTbjLR6qNh82m2_LA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.127.1461700361.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <49f4ffd8-d140-4f1b-95a9-75cb122e8b2f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnC3dsQjDyYUM+tiSZUNxi2+-QdzLCUrAHNipAK_3vHtg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 2:07 PM, Adam Davis <peakgraphicz at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 20:52:54 UTC+1, Ian  wrote:
>> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Joaquin Alzola
>> <Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com> wrote:
>> > Just an example. Didn't use the csv but just hope that it helps.
>> >
>> > name=[]
>> > name_exist="Dop"
>> >
>> > with open("dop.csv") as f:
>> >         for line in f:
>> >                 line_split=line.split(',')
>> >                 name.append(line_strip[0])
>> >         if name_exist in name:
>> >                 print "found name " + name_exist + " Can not append"
>> >         else:
>> >                 file = open("dop.csv",'a')
>> >                 print "No name found"
>> >                 file.write(name_exist)
>> > file.close()
>>
>> Except that as noted elsewhere in the thread a set would be a better
>> choice than a list, since checking membership is much faster on a set.
>
> Thanks for your help Ian. I'm a beginner right now, could you instruct me as to how I would create a set?

Create a new set:

    my_set = set()

Add a value to the set:

    my_set.add(value)

Check for membership:

    value in my_set

See also the Python tutorial at
https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/datastructures.html#sets


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Apr 26 16:23:32 2016
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 21:23:32 +0100
Subject: Howw to prevent the duplication of any value in a column within a
 CSV file (python)
In-Reply-To: <49f4ffd8-d140-4f1b-95a9-75cb122e8b2f@googlegroups.com>
References: <75e5d8dc-e15b-4350-95e8-490abd4aa14f@googlegroups.com>
 <531e2dda-c522-4b11-a030-f3f37078f344@googlegroups.com>
 <HE1PR07MB13561533B5D2DEE4B31F9AA9F0630@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <CALwzidn=KRgvWZq9jc+G5hT6dxDOOjkYZLTbjLR6qNh82m2_LA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.127.1461700361.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <49f4ffd8-d140-4f1b-95a9-75cb122e8b2f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e442a9aa-60f2-641f-08fe-487ca1d29799@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-26 21:07, Adam Davis wrote:
> On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 20:52:54 UTC+1, Ian  wrote:
>> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Joaquin Alzola
>> <Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com> wrote:
>> > Just an example. Didn't use the csv but just hope that it helps.
>> >
>> > name=[]
>> > name_exist="Dop"
>> >
>> > with open("dop.csv") as f:
>> >         for line in f:
>> >                 line_split=line.split(',')
>> >                 name.append(line_strip[0])
>> >         if name_exist in name:
>> >                 print "found name " + name_exist + " Can not append"
>> >         else:
>> >                 file = open("dop.csv",'a')
>> >                 print "No name found"
>> >                 file.write(name_exist)
>> > file.close()
>>
>> Except that as noted elsewhere in the thread a set would be a better
>> choice than a list, since checking membership is much faster on a set.
>
> Thanks for your help Ian. I'm a beginner right now, could you instruct me as to how I would create a set?
>
Create a set:

     the_set = set()

Add an item to a set:

     the_set.add(item)



From sourav524.itscient at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 17:05:07 2016
From: sourav524.itscient at gmail.com (sourav524.itscient at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 14:05:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: !! Immediate Requirement : IBM BPM Technical Lead at Warren, NJ !!
Message-ID: <1e5aaf16-c650-44a3-acee-406c08c63870@googlegroups.com>

Hello Associates,
Please go through the below job description and let me know your interest.
 Please revert me:  Sourav.P at itscient.com or sourav524.itscient at gmail.com.

Position:  IBM BPM Technical Lead
Location: Warren, NJ
Duration:  6+ Months

Requisition Details:

Skills, Required Experience and Job Responsibilities

o 7 to 10 years' Experience
o Hands on experience on the IBM BPM (IBM BPM 8.5) is must
o Possess Java/J2EE skills
o Good communication skills
o Knowledge of Oracle BPM
o Should understand BPM process, interact with SMES for queries etc.
o Has Process, rules & deep IBM BPM solution skills.
o Experience of designing workflows using Business process modeling tool
o Migration experience from any BPM (preferably Oracle BPM)to IBM BPM
o Awareness of banking domain


Thanks & Regards 
                                               
Sourav Paul | Technical Recruiter
IT-SCIENT LLC, Fremont, CA, USA  
Email: sourav524.itscient at gmail.com
Phone: 510-972-8633 | Fax: 877-701-5240
|web: www.itscient.com


From real-not-anti-spam-address at apple-juice.co.uk  Tue Apr 26 17:33:51 2016
From: real-not-anti-spam-address at apple-juice.co.uk (D.M. Procida)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 22:33:51 +0100
Subject: Running PyGame on OS X
Message-ID: <1mmc3vc.xx6qbm6rzpsgN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>

I have PyGame installed.

As soon as I run pygame.init() or pygame.display.init(), a PyGame icon
will pop up in the Dock, and then its application will simply stop
responding. Needless to say, I can't actually do anything with it.

What is this application, and what is likely the problem with it?

Thanks,

Daniele


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 17:42:45 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 15:42:45 -0600
Subject: Running PyGame on OS X
In-Reply-To: <1mmc3vc.xx6qbm6rzpsgN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
References: <1mmc3vc.xx6qbm6rzpsgN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkFGCXh+dkdaS9OcOHQhPj_vxhmy-pfE-4qD3=jEW20Gw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 3:33 PM, D.M. Procida
<real-not-anti-spam-address at apple-juice.co.uk> wrote:
> I have PyGame installed.
>
> As soon as I run pygame.init() or pygame.display.init(), a PyGame icon
> will pop up in the Dock, and then its application will simply stop
> responding. Needless to say, I can't actually do anything with it.
>
> What is this application, and what is likely the problem with it?

That sounds like it's just the PyGame display window. Likely it's not
responding because you just called init() and didn't actually start
running an event loop to process events on the window. I'd suggest
working through a PyGame tutorial.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Apr 26 19:07:06 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 09:07:06 +1000
Subject: Immediate Requirement: use the Python Job Board for recruitment (was:
 !! Immediate Requirement : IBM BPM Technical Lead at Warren, NJ !!)
References: <1e5aaf16-c650-44a3-acee-406c08c63870@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <85wpnkkm05.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

sourav524.itscient at gmail.com writes:

> Hello Associates,
> Please go through the below job description and let me know your
> interest.

Hello recruiters,

Please don't use Python discussion forums for recruiting. Instead, use
the Python Job Board which is maintained specifically for that purpose
<URL:https://www.python.org/jobs/>.

-- 
 \       ?I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me |
  `\                                        as members.? ?Groucho Marx |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From hasandiwan+usenet at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 20:36:13 2016
From: hasandiwan+usenet at gmail.com (Hasan Diwan)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 00:36:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: how to create a dictionary from csv file?
References: <246c571e-1793-4aa6-9405-19d7a1355598@googlegroups.com>
 <20160426093659.5adc41c6@bigbox.christie.dr>
 <mailman.115.1461688268.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nfp1ht$m8q$1@gioia.aioe.org>

>> I am learning python.
>> 
>> if I have a csv file, like this
>> banana,4.0
>> apple,3.5
>> orange,3.0
>> 
>> Can anyone show me how to read the csv file line by line and then
>> create a dictionary to contain these keys and values?

with open('data.csv') as f: 
    data = dict([[l.strip() for l in line] for line in csv.reader(f)])

data
 {'apple': '3.5', 'banana': '4.0', 'orange': '3.0'}


From gvm2121 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 21:21:00 2016
From: gvm2121 at gmail.com (Gonzalo V)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 21:21:00 -0400
Subject: How to read from serial port?
In-Reply-To: <nfoc30$cr8$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <41302A7145AC054FA7A96CFD03835A0A0BAC66F9@EX10MBX02.EU.NEC.COM>
 <nfoc30$cr8$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAF40P_3rE3QCQm6dLACd=14W5e+UB5rjBArO=q1BNq8MzEtV9g@mail.gmail.com>

Try print('blaba'+str(out))

saludos,
desde un m?vil.
El abr 26, 2016 2:33 p.m., "Grant Edwards" <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com>
escribi?:

> On 2016-04-26, David Aldrich <David.Aldrich at EMEA.NEC.COM> wrote:
>
> > #!/usr/bin/python3
> > import serial
> >
> > ser=serial.Serial('COM1',115200)
> > while True:
> >     out = ser.read()
> >     print('Receiving...'+out)
> >
> > When I run it and send data for it to read I get:
>
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "serial_read.py", line 9, in <module>
> >     print('Receiving...'+out)
> > TypeError: Can't convert 'bytes' object to str implicitly
>
> Try this:
>
>   print('Receiving...',out)
>
> If you want to convert the bytes you read from the serial port into a
> string, you need to decode they bytes (and you have to specify what
> encoding to use):
>
>   print('Receiving...' + out.decode('ascii'))
>
> If you google 'Python 3 bytes strings' you should find a bunch of info:
>
> https://docs.python.org/3.5/library/stdtypes.html
> http://www.diveintopython3.net/strings.html
> http://pythoncentral.io/encoding-and-decoding-strings-in-python-3-x/
>
> https://www.safaribooksonline.com/library/view/fluent-python/9781491946237/ch04.html
>
> --
> Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I haven't been
> married
>                                   at               in over six years, but
> we
>                               gmail.com            had sexual counseling
> every
>                                                    day from Oral Roberts!!
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Apr 26 21:27:36 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 11:27:36 +1000
Subject: How to read from serial port?
References: <41302A7145AC054FA7A96CFD03835A0A0BAC66F9@EX10MBX02.EU.NEC.COM>
 <nfoc30$cr8$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAF40P_3rE3QCQm6dLACd=14W5e+UB5rjBArO=q1BNq8MzEtV9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85k2jjlu2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Gonzalo V <gvm2121 at gmail.com> writes:

> Try print('blaba'+str(out))

I doubt that gives the desired result for a bytes object. Did you try it?

    >>> foo = b'\xde\xad\xbe\xef'
    >>> str(foo)
    "b'\\xde\\xad\\xbe\\xef'"
    >>> print(str(foo))
    b'\xde\xad\xbe\xef'

Yes, the ?b'? and backslashes are all part of the output.

> saludos,
> desde un m?vil.

Please don't top-post. If that means you need to wait until you are at a
device with proper keyboard, then please do that.

-- 
 \           ?I have one rule to live by: Don't make it worse.? ?Hazel |
  `\                                                          Woodcock |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From jfong at ms4.hinet.net  Tue Apr 26 22:42:36 2016
From: jfong at ms4.hinet.net (jfong at ms4.hinet.net)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 19:42:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to create a dictionary from csv file?
In-Reply-To: <246c571e-1793-4aa6-9405-19d7a1355598@googlegroups.com>
References: <246c571e-1793-4aa6-9405-19d7a1355598@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <eb424848-fcb2-4973-b48f-be1a849cfc58@googlegroups.com>

Just curious:-) why everyone here open the csv file without using newline='' as suggested in Python 3.4.4 document section 14.1?


From Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid  Tue Apr 26 22:56:46 2016
From: Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid (Seymore4Head)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 22:56:46 -0400
Subject: Python path and append
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
 <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i@4ax.com> <nfm22a$qms$1@reader1.panix.com>
 <pq4thb907ep4mknnali2rhqgao32jdsn5o@4ax.com>
 <571eca35$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <pba0iblrf5v5kojjfbqsrpoobt50k2ggvq@4ax.com>

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:53:57 +1000, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at pearwood.info> wrote:

>On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 08:04 am, Seymore4Head wrote:
>
>> BTW I was trying to use a line like yours that used an output file
>> that didn't exist and was getting an error. ?I assume that import os
>> fixes that.
>
>
>Why would you assume that?
>
>
>"Doctor, I have a problem with my arm, but I won't tell you what. I assume
>that if I take cough drops that will fix it."

OK.  Dumb question acknowledged.

I got an error when I tried to write to a non existent file.  I
"incorrectly" assumed wrong.  That is going to be a common theme.


From Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid  Tue Apr 26 22:57:16 2016
From: Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid (Seymore4Head)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 22:57:16 -0400
Subject: Python path and append
References: <DUB116-W85F8F15123A15716395CA7CA630@phx.gbl>
 <mailman.123.1461694693.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vja0ib9qb2sdmk0mfj0ilna1edtl1vqhes@4ax.com>

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 19:16:56 +0100, Michael
<bigbadmick2000 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>If you want to read an entire file, append a space and asterisk and write it to another file, this is the code you need:
>
>infile = open('win.txt', 'r')
>text = f.read()
>infile.close()
>text += " *"
>outfile = open('outfile.txt', 'w')
>outfile.write(text)
>outfile.close()
>
>If, on the other hand, you wish to read a file and append a space and asterisk TO THE END OF EVERY LINE, you require the following code:
>infile = open('win.txt', 'r')
>lines = infile.readlines()
>infile.close()
>outfile = open('outfile.txt', 'w')
>for line in lines:
>    line = line.strip() + " *\n"
>    outfile.write(line)
>outfile.close()
>
>Hope that helps!
>
>BigBadMick
>bigbadmick2000 at hotmail.com 		 	   		  

I will have a look at this.
Thanks


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 23:06:44 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 13:06:44 +1000
Subject: Python path and append
In-Reply-To: <pba0iblrf5v5kojjfbqsrpoobt50k2ggvq@4ax.com>
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
 <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i@4ax.com>
 <nfm22a$qms$1@reader1.panix.com>
 <pq4thb907ep4mknnali2rhqgao32jdsn5o@4ax.com>
 <571eca35$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <pba0iblrf5v5kojjfbqsrpoobt50k2ggvq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrTQu05a5uubz2qKu1fs_Xr9xtUuaG_Zi4GD0cZ29j5hA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Seymore4Head
<Seymore4Head at hotmail.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:53:57 +1000, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 08:04 am, Seymore4Head wrote:
>>
>>> BTW I was trying to use a line like yours that used an output file
>>> that didn't exist and was getting an error.  I assume that import os
>>> fixes that.
>>
>>
>>Why would you assume that?
>>
>>
>>"Doctor, I have a problem with my arm, but I won't tell you what. I assume
>>that if I take cough drops that will fix it."
>
> OK.  Dumb question acknowledged.
>
> I got an error when I tried to write to a non existent file.  I
> "incorrectly" assumed wrong.  That is going to be a common theme.

If you can acknowledge that, I suggest adopting a stance that will
tend to avoid such assumptions in the future. The easiest way is to do
less of your own analysis and more copy/paste of exact error messages.
Don't say "getting an error" - quote the actual code and error. Don't
say "I assume that", ask the question ("Would importing the os module
fix that?"). We'll be able to help more easily with actual error text,
and you won't look dumb :)

ChrisA


From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Tue Apr 26 23:43:55 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 20:43:55 -0700
Subject: Differences between Class(Object) and Class(Dict) for dictionary
 usage?
Message-ID: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>

Greetings,

If I'm using a dictionary to store variables for an object, and 
accessing the variable values from dictionary via property decorators, 
would it be better to derive the class from object or dict?

     class Test1(object):
         def __init__(self):
             self.state = {'key': 'value'}

Or:

     class Test2(dict):
         def __init__(self):
                 self.__dict__ = {'key', 'value'}

I haven't seen a good pro/con discussion on the Internet for using one 
over the other. I played with both in my code. Doesn't seem to make a 
great difference either way. Using object seems to be the most simplest 
approach.

Thank you,

Chris R.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Apr 26 23:54:11 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 13:54:11 +1000
Subject: Differences between Class(Object) and Class(Dict) for dictionary
 usage?
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <85bn4vlna4.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Christopher Reimer <christopher_reimer at icloud.com> writes:

> If I'm using a dictionary to store variables for an object, and
> accessing the variable values from dictionary via property decorators

Why not use the built-in ?dict? type?

What does the new type do which isn't already better served by the
built-in ?dict? type?

(Note that ?allow attribute-syntax access to dictionary items? does not
qualify as ?better?, IMO; it qualifies as ?needlessly confusing distinct
concepts?.)

> I haven't seen a good pro/con discussion on the Internet for using one
> over the other.

I haven't seen a good pro/con discussion of the use case you're trying
to address :-)

-- 
 \        ?I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance |
  `\                                          any day.? ?Douglas Adams |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From random832 at fastmail.com  Tue Apr 26 23:56:00 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 23:56:00 -0400
Subject: Differences between Class(Object) and Class(Dict) for dictionary
 usage?
In-Reply-To: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1461729360.3276080.590752673.7A6E1041@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016, at 23:43, Christopher Reimer wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> If I'm using a dictionary to store variables for an object, and 
> accessing the variable values from dictionary via property decorators, 

what exactly do you mean by property decorators? If you're just
accessing them in a dictionary what's the benefit over having the values
be simple attributes rather than properties?

> would it be better to derive the class from object or dict?
> 
>      class Test1(object):
>          def __init__(self):
>              self.state = {'key': 'value'}
> 
> Or:
> 
>      class Test2(dict):
>          def __init__(self):
>                  self.__dict__ = {'key', 'value'}
> 
> I haven't seen a good pro/con discussion on the Internet for using one 
> over the other. I played with both in my code. Doesn't seem to make a 
> great difference either way. Using object seems to be the most simplest 
> approach.

I sometimes use dict (with self.__dict__ = self) if I want to be able to
access values via either obj['key'] or obj.key (a la Javascript).
Otherwise, there's no point in using dict.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Apr 27 00:54:27 2016
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 14:54:27 +1000
Subject: def __init__(self):
References: <34e51ef5-9679-40ec-bc8f-47981353e9d7@googlegroups.com>
 <571F1361.3010402@digipen.edu> <85eg9sn7qo.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.100.1461656092.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87lh40pyik.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <571f9362$0$1602$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <1461687967.2507874.590200129.102244C8@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.114.1461687970.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <571f9836$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CALvWhxtRM+Qd983o2eB2SC4Hk0EsU26t-zbOQFW23a27Z3gx3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.116.1461690002.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57204605$0$11115$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wednesday 27 April 2016 02:59, Chris Kaynor wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 9:32 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>
> wrote:
> 
>> Actually immutable, short of doing wicked things with ctypes.
>>
> 
> By wicked things with ctypes, do you mean something like this? By no means
> do I suggest this actually be used by anybody for any reason.
> 
> Tested with '2.7.10 (default, Jul 14 2015, 19:46:27) \n[GCC 4.2.1
> Compatible Apple LLVM 6.0 (clang-600.0.39)]'
> 
> import ctypes
> def changeTuple(tuple, index, newValue):
>     obj = ctypes.cast(id(tuple), ctypes.POINTER(ctypes.c_long))
>     obj[3+index] = id(newValue)
> 
>>>> a = ('a','b','c')
>>>> changeTuple(a, 0, 1)
>>>> a
> (1, 'b', 'c')
>>>> changeTuple(a, 1, 3)
>>>> a
> (1, 3, 'c')


You're a bad, bad man :-)




-- 
Steve



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Apr 27 01:31:18 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 22:31:18 -0700
Subject: Differences between Class(Object) and Class(Dict) for dictionary
 usage?
In-Reply-To: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <57204EA6.7060007@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/26/2016 08:43 PM, Christopher Reimer wrote:

> If I'm using a dictionary to store variables for an object, and
> accessing the variable values from dictionary via property decorators,
> would it be better to derive the class from object or dict?
>
>      class Test1(object):
>          def __init__(self):
>              self.state = {'key': 'value'}
>
> Or:
>
>      class Test2(dict):
>          def __init__(self):
>                  self.__dict__ = {'key', 'value'}
>
> I haven't seen a good pro/con discussion on the Internet for using one
> over the other. I played with both in my code. Doesn't seem to make a
> great difference either way. Using object seems to be the most simplest
> approach.

Using a dict gets you a bunch of methods for free: keys(), values(), 
items(), get(), etc., etc..

If you don't need any of those, subclass object.

--
~Ethan~



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Apr 27 01:33:47 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 22:33:47 -0700
Subject: Differences between Class(Object) and Class(Dict) for dictionary
 usage?
In-Reply-To: <85bn4vlna4.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com> <85bn4vlna4.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <57204F3B.3060906@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/26/2016 08:54 PM, Ben Finney wrote:

> (Note that ?allow attribute-syntax access to dictionary items? does not
> qualify as ?better?, IMO; it qualifies as ?needlessly confusing distinct
> concepts?.)

Well, since one of the side-effects of class instances is to provide 
"attribute-syntax access to" the instances' "dictionary items" I would 
say that distinction is pretty thin already. ;)

--
~Ethan~



From peakgraphicz at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 02:26:19 2016
From: peakgraphicz at gmail.com (Adam Davis)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 23:26:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Howw to prevent the duplication of any value in a column within a
 CSV file (python)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.129.1461702225.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <75e5d8dc-e15b-4350-95e8-490abd4aa14f@googlegroups.com>
 <531e2dda-c522-4b11-a030-f3f37078f344@googlegroups.com>
 <HE1PR07MB13561533B5D2DEE4B31F9AA9F0630@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <CALwzidn=KRgvWZq9jc+G5hT6dxDOOjkYZLTbjLR6qNh82m2_LA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.127.1461700361.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <49f4ffd8-d140-4f1b-95a9-75cb122e8b2f@googlegroups.com>
 <e442a9aa-60f2-641f-08fe-487ca1d29799@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.129.1461702225.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f8a42577-e3c7-4dd6-a2a7-9cee58c37ee4@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 21:23:58 UTC+1, MRAB  wrote:
> On 2016-04-26 21:07, Adam Davis wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 20:52:54 UTC+1, Ian  wrote:
> >> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Joaquin Alzola
> >> <Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com> wrote:
> >> > Just an example. Didn't use the csv but just hope that it helps.
> >> >
> >> > name=[]
> >> > name_exist="Dop"
> >> >
> >> > with open("dop.csv") as f:
> >> >         for line in f:
> >> >                 line_split=line.split(',')
> >> >                 name.append(line_strip[0])
> >> >         if name_exist in name:
> >> >                 print "found name " + name_exist + " Can not append"
> >> >         else:
> >> >                 file = open("dop.csv",'a')
> >> >                 print "No name found"
> >> >                 file.write(name_exist)
> >> > file.close()
> >>
> >> Except that as noted elsewhere in the thread a set would be a better
> >> choice than a list, since checking membership is much faster on a set.
> >
> > Thanks for your help Ian. I'm a beginner right now, could you instruct me as to how I would create a set?
> >
> Create a set:
> 
>      the_set = set()
> 
> Add an item to a set:
> 
>      the_set.add(item)

I understand what you're saying! But where you say: " the_set = set()", what would go within the set brackets?


From bob.martin at excite.com  Wed Apr 27 07:36:22 2016
From: bob.martin at excite.com (Bob Martin)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 07:36:22 BST
Subject: Immediate Requirement: use the Python Job Board for recruitment
 (was:
References: <1e5aaf16-c650-44a3-acee-406c08c63870@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.131.1461712041.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dob4v6Fru6aU1@mid.individual.net>

in 758723 20160427 000706 Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>sourav524.itscient at gmail.com writes:
>
>> Hello Associates,
>> Please go through the below job description and let me know your
>> interest.
>
>Hello recruiters,
>
>Please don't use Python discussion forums for recruiting. Instead, use
>the Python Job Board which is maintained specifically for that purpose
><URL:https://www.python.org/jobs/>.

Recruiters post everywhere but seem not to read anywhere.
They have flooded the android developer lists to the point where
they are no longer worth reading.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 02:37:27 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 16:37:27 +1000
Subject: Howw to prevent the duplication of any value in a column within a
 CSV file (python)
In-Reply-To: <f8a42577-e3c7-4dd6-a2a7-9cee58c37ee4@googlegroups.com>
References: <75e5d8dc-e15b-4350-95e8-490abd4aa14f@googlegroups.com>
 <531e2dda-c522-4b11-a030-f3f37078f344@googlegroups.com>
 <HE1PR07MB13561533B5D2DEE4B31F9AA9F0630@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <CALwzidn=KRgvWZq9jc+G5hT6dxDOOjkYZLTbjLR6qNh82m2_LA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.127.1461700361.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <49f4ffd8-d140-4f1b-95a9-75cb122e8b2f@googlegroups.com>
 <e442a9aa-60f2-641f-08fe-487ca1d29799@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.129.1461702225.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <f8a42577-e3c7-4dd6-a2a7-9cee58c37ee4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqhoJrE5mHHdCSwj-aORx7YTVTuJgdNwZ9T7mq3QxFrvA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Adam Davis <peakgraphicz at gmail.com> wrote:
> I understand what you're saying! But where you say: " the_set = set()", what would go within the set brackets?

Nothing. The empty parentheses mean "call this with no arguments", and
when you call the set constructor like that, you get back an empty
set.

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Apr 27 04:31:42 2016
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 18:31:42 +1000
Subject: Immediate Requirement: use the Python Job Board for recruitment
 (was:
References: <1e5aaf16-c650-44a3-acee-406c08c63870@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.131.1461712041.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <dob4v6Fru6aU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <572078f0$0$1516$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wednesday 27 April 2016 16:36, Bob Martin wrote:

> Recruiters post everywhere but seem not to read anywhere.
> They have flooded the android developer lists to the point where
> they are no longer worth reading.

Wanted: Android developer. Must have five years experience with 
"Marshmellow" or ten years with any previous version.


-- 
Steven



From nulla.epistola at web.de  Wed Apr 27 05:10:20 2016
From: nulla.epistola at web.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 11:10:20 +0200
Subject: how to create a dictionary from csv file?
In-Reply-To: <eb424848-fcb2-4973-b48f-be1a849cfc58@googlegroups.com>
References: <246c571e-1793-4aa6-9405-19d7a1355598@googlegroups.com>
 <eb424848-fcb2-4973-b48f-be1a849cfc58@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b85c5dab-41c6-ff3e-1deb-75cd9c179804@web.de>

Am 27.04.2016 um 04:42 schrieb jfong at ms4.hinet.net:
> Just curious:-) why everyone here open the csv file without using newline='' as suggested in Python 3.4.4 document section 14.1?
>
And if the csv module is used anyway, why not simply read into a DictReader?




From smith at a-team.it  Wed Apr 27 05:29:12 2016
From: smith at a-team.it (Smith)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 11:29:12 +0200
Subject: Basic Concepts
Message-ID: <ID%Ty.44611$pt.25847@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

Fill in the blanks to declare a variable, add 5 to it and print its value:

 >>> x = 4
 >>> x_ = 5
 >>> print_


Any suggestion ?

Thanks


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr 27 05:31:02 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 11:31:02 +0200
Subject: how to create a dictionary from csv file?
References: <246c571e-1793-4aa6-9405-19d7a1355598@googlegroups.com>
 <eb424848-fcb2-4973-b48f-be1a849cfc58@googlegroups.com>
 <b85c5dab-41c6-ff3e-1deb-75cd9c179804@web.de>
Message-ID: <nfq0so$kaa$1@ger.gmane.org>

Sibylle Koczian wrote:

> Am 27.04.2016 um 04:42 schrieb jfong at ms4.hinet.net:
>> Just curious:-) why everyone here open the csv file without using
>> newline='' as suggested in Python 3.4.4 document section 14.1?

Carelessness, lack of knowledge (I plead guilty), not on Windows and no 
embedded newline in sight?

> And if the csv module is used anyway, why not simply read into a
> DictReader?

How would that help with looking up 3.5 by "apple" given the OP's sample 
data

banana,4.0
apple,3.5
orange,3.0

? Please give a code example.

Finally, why would you think that asking rhetorical questions is a good way 
to communicate?



From Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com  Wed Apr 27 05:32:22 2016
From: Joaquin.Alzola at lebara.com (Joaquin Alzola)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 09:32:22 +0000
Subject: Basic Concepts
In-Reply-To: <ID%Ty.44611$pt.25847@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
References: <ID%Ty.44611$pt.25847@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <HE1PR07MB1356E39620CA28D96C132DC3F0640@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>

>>> x = 4
>>> x + 5
9

-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+joaquin.alzola=lebara.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Smith
Sent: 27 April 2016 10:29
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Basic Concepts

Fill in the blanks to declare a variable, add 5 to it and print its value:

 >>> x = 4
 >>> x_ = 5
 >>> print_


Any suggestion ?

Thanks
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
This email is confidential and may be subject to privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not copy or disclose its content but contact the sender immediately upon receipt.


From ldompeling at casema.nl  Wed Apr 27 06:05:28 2016
From: ldompeling at casema.nl (ldompeling at casema.nl)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 03:05:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: newsreader pan could not find my post
Message-ID: <c28916fe-fd41-43f6-a476-c7d8387b1745@googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I post a message in comp.lang python, but with caching new articles in the newsreader pan I don't see my article.

How can I contact the administrater or this group.

Thanks


From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Wed Apr 27 06:53:46 2016
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 10:53:46 GMT
Subject: Basic Concepts
References: <ID%Ty.44611$pt.25847@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <_S0Uy.149982$ae3.79926@fx40.am4>

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 11:29:12 +0200, Smith wrote:

> Fill in the blanks to declare a variable, add 5 to it and print its
> value:
> 
>  >>> x = 4 x_ = 5 print_
> 
> 
> Any suggestion ?
> 
> Thanks

2 suggestions:-

1) Stay awake during your class so that you can complete basic homework 
assignments.

2) Try reading the online python tutorial which covers this type of basic 
operation (& much more).


assistance with homework can be obtained her but only if you have made 
some effort, posted your code and given some explanation of why you think 
it is not working.
even then you will get suggestions to steer you in the right direction 
rather than working code. 


-- 
The more a man is imbued with the ordered regularity of all events, the 
firmer
becomes his conviction that there is no room left by the side of this 
ordered
regularity for causes of a different nature.  For him neither the rule of
human nor the rule of divine will exists as an independent cause of 
natural
events.  To be sure, the doctrine of a personal God interfering with 
natural
events could never be refuted, in the real sense, by science, for this
doctrine can always take refuge in those domains in which scientific 
knowledge
has not yet been able to set foot.

But I am persuaded that such behavior on the part of the representatives
of religion would not only be unworthy but also fatal.  For a doctrine 
which 
is able to maintain itself not in clear light, but only in the dark, will
of necessity lose its effect on mankind, with incalculable harm to human
progress.  In their struggle for the ethical good, teachers of religion
must have the stature to give up the doctrine of a personal God, that is, 
give up that source of fear and hope which in the past placed such vast
powers in the hands of priests.  In their labors they will have to avail
themselves of those forces which are capable of cultivating the Good, the 
True, and the Beautiful in humanity itself.  This is, to be sure, a more
difficult but an incomparably more worthy task.
- Albert Einstein


From tuli.herscovici at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 07:23:26 2016
From: tuli.herscovici at gmail.com (Pierre)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 04:23:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python(x,y) 64 bit
Message-ID: <5a83e402-96f3-473f-9bac-1dc95922e940@googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I installed Python(x,y) 64 bit version and ran it using a library that requires Python 64 bit. 
I got an error which indicated that I am using Python 32 bit.

So, is the python used by Python(x,y) 64 bit, using Python 64 or 32 bit?

Thanks





From steve at pearwood.info  Wed Apr 27 08:04:01 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 22:04:01 +1000
Subject: Basic Concepts
References: <ID%Ty.44611$pt.25847@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <5720aab3$0$1611$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 07:29 pm, Smith wrote:

> Fill in the blanks to declare a variable, add 5 to it and print its value:
> 
>  >>> x = 4
>  >>> x_ = 5
>  >>> print_
> 
> 
> Any suggestion ?


Okay, you have a variable x with the value of 4:

x = 4


How do you think you would print the value of x?

Hint: here I print the value of z instead:

print z



-- 
Steven



From peakgraphicz at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 08:23:10 2016
From: peakgraphicz at gmail.com (Adam Davis)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 05:23:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Howw to prevent the duplication of any value in a column within a
 CSV file (python)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.143.1461739050.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <75e5d8dc-e15b-4350-95e8-490abd4aa14f@googlegroups.com>
 <531e2dda-c522-4b11-a030-f3f37078f344@googlegroups.com>
 <HE1PR07MB13561533B5D2DEE4B31F9AA9F0630@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <CALwzidn=KRgvWZq9jc+G5hT6dxDOOjkYZLTbjLR6qNh82m2_LA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.127.1461700361.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <49f4ffd8-d140-4f1b-95a9-75cb122e8b2f@googlegroups.com>
 <e442a9aa-60f2-641f-08fe-487ca1d29799@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.129.1461702225.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <f8a42577-e3c7-4dd6-a2a7-9cee58c37ee4@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmqhoJrE5mHHdCSwj-aORx7YTVTuJgdNwZ9T7mq3QxFrvA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.143.1461739050.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <75d2b984-0a1e-42fa-bb3d-f698d4f5e0a1@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, 27 April 2016 07:37:42 UTC+1, Chris Angelico  wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Adam Davis <peakgraphicz at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I understand what you're saying! But where you say: " the_set = set()", what would go within the set brackets?
> 
> Nothing. The empty parentheses mean "call this with no arguments", and
> when you call the set constructor like that, you get back an empty
> set.
> 
> ChrisA

Thanks Chris. Where Ian says 'the_set.add(item)', what would be put within item in terms of my codes function/aim? 


From andrew.ongko at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 08:57:58 2016
From: andrew.ongko at gmail.com (Andrew Ongko)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 19:57:58 +0700
Subject: Howw to prevent the duplication of any value in a column within a
 CSV file (python)
In-Reply-To: <CACfV+Gxrqgk+Z9CobZ38vvDuAh=THhdfsganOht+Sj4vfRkgHw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <75e5d8dc-e15b-4350-95e8-490abd4aa14f@googlegroups.com>
 <531e2dda-c522-4b11-a030-f3f37078f344@googlegroups.com>
 <HE1PR07MB13561533B5D2DEE4B31F9AA9F0630@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <CALwzidn=KRgvWZq9jc+G5hT6dxDOOjkYZLTbjLR6qNh82m2_LA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.127.1461700361.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <49f4ffd8-d140-4f1b-95a9-75cb122e8b2f@googlegroups.com>
 <e442a9aa-60f2-641f-08fe-487ca1d29799@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.129.1461702225.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <f8a42577-e3c7-4dd6-a2a7-9cee58c37ee4@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmqhoJrE5mHHdCSwj-aORx7YTVTuJgdNwZ9T7mq3QxFrvA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.143.1461739050.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <75d2b984-0a1e-42fa-bb3d-f698d4f5e0a1@googlegroups.com>
 <CACfV+Gxvma-6vvqqxXtSL0uv7P9uhJaiXF+t-yXq-TSdLHCTUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACfV+Gxrqgk+Z9CobZ38vvDuAh=THhdfsganOht+Sj4vfRkgHw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACfV+GwKbNx4r=3xybisiwtqHSJtFEnz5Kzh8a+MXfecYAYgHg@mail.gmail.com>

On Apr 27, 2016 7:25 PM, "Adam Davis" <peakgraphicz at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, 27 April 2016 07:37:42 UTC+1, Chris Angelico  wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Adam Davis <peakgraphicz at gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > I understand what you're saying! But where you say: " the_set =
set()", what would go within the set brackets?
> >
> > Nothing. The empty parentheses mean "call this with no arguments", and
> > when you call the set constructor like that, you get back an empty
> > set.
> >
> > ChrisA
>
> Thanks Chris. Where Ian says 'the_set.add(item)', what would be put
within item in terms of my codes function/aim?

item is name in your case. Since it's the one you care about existing or
not.

It would be like:
Read from csv,
For each row, the_set.add(name)

Now that you have the_set in memory, whenever you want to check whether a
particular name has taken the quiz, just do:

if name in the_set:
    # forbid
else:
    # allow

Regards,
Andrew


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 10:24:02 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 08:24:02 -0600
Subject: Differences between Class(Object) and Class(Dict) for dictionary
 usage?
In-Reply-To: <57204EA6.7060007@stoneleaf.us>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com> <57204EA6.7060007@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnr_O3m3=7RGUD1pu0Op93pZSLXKOMjHbecKRBeYn_30A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 11:31 PM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
> On 04/26/2016 08:43 PM, Christopher Reimer wrote:
>
>> If I'm using a dictionary to store variables for an object, and
>> accessing the variable values from dictionary via property decorators,
>> would it be better to derive the class from object or dict?
>>
>>      class Test1(object):
>>          def __init__(self):
>>              self.state = {'key': 'value'}
>>
>> Or:
>>
>>      class Test2(dict):
>>          def __init__(self):
>>                  self.__dict__ = {'key', 'value'}
>>
>> I haven't seen a good pro/con discussion on the Internet for using one
>> over the other. I played with both in my code. Doesn't seem to make a
>> great difference either way. Using object seems to be the most simplest
>> approach.
>
>
> Using a dict gets you a bunch of methods for free: keys(), values(),
> items(), get(), etc., etc..

You get those for free either way; in the first case you just have use
self.state.keys() instead of self.keys().

The question boils down to composition versus inheritance, and the
prevailing wisdom is to prefer composition. For me the discerning test
is "do the things that are in this dict make sense as items contained
by my object?" If the answer is yes, then go ahead and subclass from
dict. More often, the answer is no.

Some other great questions to ask yourself are "do I really want
len(my_object) to return the number of items in this dict" and "do I
really want list(my_object) to return all the keys in this dict"? If
the answer to all those is yes, then it's probably fair to say that
your object is-a dict and should be modeled as such.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 10:33:40 2016
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 08:33:40 -0600
Subject: Differences between Class(Object) and Class(Dict) for dictionary
 usage?
In-Reply-To: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 9:43 PM, Christopher Reimer
<christopher_reimer at icloud.com> wrote:
>     class Test2(dict):
>         def __init__(self):
>                 self.__dict__ = {'key', 'value'}

This class definition looks muddled. Because Test2 inherits from dict,
the object referred to by "self" will be a dict, and self.__dict__ is
actually a *different* dict, containing the attributes of self. The
line:

    self.__dict__ = {'key', 'value'}

is essentially equivalent to:

    self.key = value

and will be regardless of whether you inherit from object or dict. If
you find this distinction confusing, then I recommend not inheriting
from dict.


From zachary.ware+pylist at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 11:16:50 2016
From: zachary.ware+pylist at gmail.com (Zachary Ware)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 10:16:50 -0500
Subject: Python(x,y) 64 bit
In-Reply-To: <5a83e402-96f3-473f-9bac-1dc95922e940@googlegroups.com>
References: <5a83e402-96f3-473f-9bac-1dc95922e940@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAKJDb-PYbhXQjYX0X4gk1w4ZDPRr-ufZ9=mveT+UF2SWYAue7A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Pierre,

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 6:23 AM, Pierre <tuli.herscovici at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I installed Python(x,y) 64 bit version and ran it using a library that requires Python 64 bit.
> I got an error which indicated that I am using Python 32 bit.
>
> So, is the python used by Python(x,y) 64 bit, using Python 64 or 32 bit?

You can check by doing `python -c "import sys;print(sys.maxsize ==
2**63-1)"`.  You'll get True for 64-bit, False for 32-bit.  There's a
possibility that you've gotten a misleading error message, though.
What version of Python(x,y) are you using, and what library?

-- 
Zach


From durganaveen.usit at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 11:17:24 2016
From: durganaveen.usit at gmail.com (durganaveen.usit at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 08:17:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: urgent requirement DB2 with AIX or LINUX@ Foster City,CA
Message-ID: <1b0139be-f9cc-4873-829c-5ca0ad15bcaa@googlegroups.com>

This is Naveen from SAGE IT INC.
Hope you are doing great. Please send me your updated resume if you're interested for this position

Title: DB2 with AIX or LINUX
Location: Foster City, CA
Duration: 12+ Months

 

Job Description

Strong DB2 LUW V10 (AIX/LINUX) expertise combined with sharp conceptual and analytical thinking!
Working knowledge of Hadoop is a big plus.
 
The successful candidate should have a working experience with Large (multi-terabytes) systems on DB2. 
Working experience with hadoop and Oracle-based systems as it pertains to the Datawarehousing environment is big plus.
 
Should have hands-on advanced trouble-shooting and performance tuning knowledge/experience; understand and be able to define different DB2 partitioning strategies; be able to provide 3rd and 4th level support.
 
The responsibilities will include but they will not be limited to
 
*         Requirement gathering and performing capacity planning, database physical design, architecture and configuration of large infrastructures, developing complex shell scripts, preparing specifications and defining    
            best practices and standards.
*         Provide database expertise to other Global Engineering and Application teams; represent DB Engineering in project planning, sizing, design and defining backup/recovery strategies.
*         The successful candidate should be adaptive to the Visa's agile environment!
*         Experience with IBM DB2 for LUW Database Editions 9.x and 10.x
*         Must have experience in administrating DB2 LUW in DPF (Partitioning) envrionment.
*         Experience in IBM DB2 applicances like ISAS is preferred.
*         Experience in shell scripting (.ksh,.bash) in AIX and Linux platforms.
*         Experience IBM DB2 for LUW backup and recovery processes
*         Experience in troubleshooting and supporting DB2 for LUW database instances.
*         Experience in multiple methods of data movement technologies like Import, Export, and Ingest.
*         Experience in DB2 LUW performance tuning methodologies.
*         Knowledge of DB2 for LUW high availability and DR solutions

Thanks& Regards
Durga Naveen
SageIT IT Solutions INC
cnaveen at sageitinc.net 
972-996-0650 Extn 349
www.sageitinc.com


From nulla.epistola at web.de  Wed Apr 27 11:37:10 2016
From: nulla.epistola at web.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:37:10 +0200
Subject: how to create a dictionary from csv file?
In-Reply-To: <nfq0so$kaa$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <246c571e-1793-4aa6-9405-19d7a1355598@googlegroups.com>
 <eb424848-fcb2-4973-b48f-be1a849cfc58@googlegroups.com>
 <b85c5dab-41c6-ff3e-1deb-75cd9c179804@web.de> <nfq0so$kaa$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <d955d54a-e752-6d98-20cd-d5a90c1d24d7@web.de>

Am 27.04.2016 um 11:31 schrieb Peter Otten:
> Sibylle Koczian wrote:
>
>> And if the csv module is used anyway, why not simply read into a
>> DictReader?
>
> How would that help with looking up 3.5 by "apple" given the OP's sample
> data
>
> banana,4.0
> apple,3.5
> orange,3.0
>

Quite right, it wouldn't. Misread the problem, sorry.





From nulla.epistola at web.de  Wed Apr 27 11:37:10 2016
From: nulla.epistola at web.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:37:10 +0200
Subject: how to create a dictionary from csv file?
In-Reply-To: <nfq0so$kaa$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <246c571e-1793-4aa6-9405-19d7a1355598@googlegroups.com>
 <eb424848-fcb2-4973-b48f-be1a849cfc58@googlegroups.com>
 <b85c5dab-41c6-ff3e-1deb-75cd9c179804@web.de> <nfq0so$kaa$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <d955d54a-e752-6d98-20cd-d5a90c1d24d7@web.de>

Am 27.04.2016 um 11:31 schrieb Peter Otten:
> Sibylle Koczian wrote:
>
>> And if the csv module is used anyway, why not simply read into a
>> DictReader?
>
> How would that help with looking up 3.5 by "apple" given the OP's sample
> data
>
> banana,4.0
> apple,3.5
> orange,3.0
>

Quite right, it wouldn't. Misread the problem, sorry.




From darnold992000 at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 27 11:49:09 2016
From: darnold992000 at yahoo.com (darnold)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 08:49:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Howw to prevent the duplication of any value in a column within a
 CSV file (python)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.147.1461761880.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <75e5d8dc-e15b-4350-95e8-490abd4aa14f@googlegroups.com>
 <531e2dda-c522-4b11-a030-f3f37078f344@googlegroups.com>
 <HE1PR07MB13561533B5D2DEE4B31F9AA9F0630@HE1PR07MB1356.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <CALwzidn=KRgvWZq9jc+G5hT6dxDOOjkYZLTbjLR6qNh82m2_LA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.127.1461700361.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <49f4ffd8-d140-4f1b-95a9-75cb122e8b2f@googlegroups.com>
 <e442a9aa-60f2-641f-08fe-487ca1d29799@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.129.1461702225.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <f8a42577-e3c7-4dd6-a2a7-9cee58c37ee4@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmqhoJrE5mHHdCSwj-aORx7YTVTuJgdNwZ9T7mq3QxFrvA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.143.1461739050.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <75d2b984-0a1e-42fa-bb3d-f698d4f5e0a1@googlegroups.com>
 <CACfV+Gxvma-6vvqqxXtSL0uv7P9uhJaiXF+t-yXq-TSdLHCTUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACfV+Gxrqgk+Z9CobZ38vvDuAh=THhdfsganOht+Sj4vfRkgHw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACfV+GwKbNx4r=3xybisiwtqHSJtFEnz5Kzh8a+MXfecYAYgHg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.147.1461761880.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dd57a3c2-59cc-4830-9953-f32d20a65a2c@googlegroups.com>


potential_passengers = ['bob','john','sue','wendy','chris','bob','jen','wendy']
accepted_passengers = set()

for name in potential_passengers:
    print('checking on {}...'.format(name))
    if name not in accepted_passengers:
        accepted_passengers.add(name)
        print('welcome aboard, {}!'.format(name))        
    else:
        print('i am sorry, we have already accepted a {}.'.format(name))
    print()        
            

HTH,
Don         


From bharadwajsrivatsa at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 13:13:45 2016
From: bharadwajsrivatsa at gmail.com (bharadwajsrivatsa at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 10:13:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Importerror: cannot import name httpshandler linux
Message-ID: <44d6df49-1504-404f-b82a-b034c003b9d7@googlegroups.com>

I tried installing Python 2.7.11 on HP-UX which already has all the build and run time dependencies installed on it such as openssl, libffi, etc. But after installing python , I tried installing some open source packages using pip. But pip thows the error:
Importerror: cannot import name httpshandler linux.

 PLease help me out to resolve this.


From best_lay at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 27 15:29:29 2016
From: best_lay at yahoo.com (Wildman)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 14:29:29 -0500
Subject: Importerror: cannot import name httpshandler linux
References: <44d6df49-1504-404f-b82a-b034c003b9d7@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ELGdnYL8LOiEjrzKnZ2dnUU7-U-dnZ2d@giganews.com>

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 10:13:45 -0700, bharadwajsrivatsa wrote:

> I tried installing Python 2.7.11 on HP-UX which already has all
> the build and run time dependencies installed on it such as
> openssl, libffi, etc. But after installing python , I tried
> installing some open source packages using pip. But pip thows the error:
> Importerror: cannot import name httpshandler linux.
> 
>  PLease help me out to resolve this.

Try installing the libssl-dev package.

-- 
<Wildman> GNU/Linux user #557453
The cow died so I don't need your bull!


From tuli.herscovici at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 19:25:37 2016
From: tuli.herscovici at gmail.com (Pierre)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 16:25:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python(x,y) 64 bit
In-Reply-To: <mailman.150.1461770238.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <5a83e402-96f3-473f-9bac-1dc95922e940@googlegroups.com>
 <CAKJDb-PYbhXQjYX0X4gk1w4ZDPRr-ufZ9=mveT+UF2SWYAue7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.150.1461770238.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <855cf4b8-71ea-4067-a091-f78f9622619c@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 27, 2016 at 11:17:32 AM UTC-4, Zachary Ware wrote:
> Hi Pierre,
> 
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 6:23 AM, Pierre <tuli.herscovici at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I installed Python(x,y) 64 bit version and ran it using a library that requires Python 64 bit.
> > I got an error which indicated that I am using Python 32 bit.
> >
> > So, is the python used by Python(x,y) 64 bit, using Python 64 or 32 bit?
> 
> You can check by doing `python -c "import sys;print(sys.maxsize ==
> 2**63-1)"`.  You'll get True for 64-bit, False for 32-bit.  There's a
> possibility that you've gotten a misleading error message, though.
> What version of Python(x,y) are you using, and what library?
> 
> -- 
> Zach

Zach,

I did check and it looks like the Python(x,y) 64 distribution I downloaded uses a 32 bit Python.
The question is if there is ANY Python(x,y) 64 distribution that uses the 64 bit python version.
I looked it up online and could not find anything related to this issue


From me+python at ixokai.io  Wed Apr 27 19:48:22 2016
From: me+python at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 16:48:22 -0700
Subject: Python(x,y) 64 bit
In-Reply-To: <855cf4b8-71ea-4067-a091-f78f9622619c@googlegroups.com>
References: <5a83e402-96f3-473f-9bac-1dc95922e940@googlegroups.com>
 <CAKJDb-PYbhXQjYX0X4gk1w4ZDPRr-ufZ9=mveT+UF2SWYAue7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.150.1461770238.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <855cf4b8-71ea-4067-a091-f78f9622619c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1461800902.3160464.591757537.60D52B21@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016, at 04:25 PM, Pierre wrote:
> I did check and it looks like the Python(x,y) 64 distribution I
> downloaded uses a 32 bit Python.
> The question is if there is ANY Python(x,y) 64 distribution that uses the
> 64 bit python version.
> I looked it up online and could not find anything related to this issue

I don't know anything about Python(x,y), but from their website it looks
like it doesn't offer 64-bit python. 

Note, Python(x,y) is not affiliated with Python itself.

That said, perhaps you should check out
https://www.continuum.io/downloads which is the Anaconda scientific
distribution, which I know does offer 64-bit Python support.

---
Stephen Hansen
  m e @ i x o k a i . i o



From me+python at ixokai.io  Wed Apr 27 20:24:34 2016
From: me+python at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:24:34 -0700
Subject: Python path and append
In-Reply-To: <pba0iblrf5v5kojjfbqsrpoobt50k2ggvq@4ax.com>
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
 <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i@4ax.com>
 <nfm22a$qms$1@reader1.panix.com>
 <pq4thb907ep4mknnali2rhqgao32jdsn5o@4ax.com>
 <571eca35$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <pba0iblrf5v5kojjfbqsrpoobt50k2ggvq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1461803074.3168509.591776529.05ACF2C5@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016, at 07:56 PM, Seymore4Head wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:53:57 +1000, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> 
> >On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 08:04 am, Seymore4Head wrote:
> >
> >> BTW I was trying to use a line like yours that used an output file
> >> that didn't exist and was getting an error. ?I assume that import os
> >> fixes that.
> >
> >
> >Why would you assume that?
> >
> >
> >"Doctor, I have a problem with my arm, but I won't tell you what. I assume
> >that if I take cough drops that will fix it."
> 
> OK.  Dumb question acknowledged.
> 
> I got an error when I tried to write to a non existent file.  I
> "incorrectly" assumed wrong.  That is going to be a common theme.

Oh, he wasn't saying it was a dumb question. He was complaining you said
you were "getting an error". That's not a dumb question, that's a
useless report of a problem. If you don't say what exactly the error is,
we can't help you.

If you want help, the two best things to do are:
  1) Show actual code. 
  2) Show actual, complete tracebacks. 

Having a nice description of what you expect to happen is often nice
too, especially if its doing something "wrong" and not giving an obvious
traceback. Seeing specifically what the wrong behavior is, and you
explaining why you think its wrong, can be invaluable. 

-- 
Stephen Hansen
  m e @ i x o k a i . i o


From apporvajain06 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 20:45:54 2016
From: apporvajain06 at gmail.com (Apporva Jain)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:45:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Big World, Big Data, Big Mind : Spark | Scala | Python
Message-ID: <d1f3d77f-2ae3-4e1f-b7ee-e73538bad5ac@googlegroups.com>

Become proficient in both Scala and python to implement programming skills on Apache spark and have independent understanding of all three platforms


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Understand the difference between Apache Spark and Hadoop
Learn Scala and its programming implementation
Implement Spark on a cluster
Write Spark Applications using Python, Java and Scala
Understand Module 4-RDD and its operation
Learn common Spark Algorithms
Define and explain Spark Streaming
Execute Pattern Matching in Scala
Understand Scala Java Interoperability
Understand the purpose, importance and Installation of Python
Get expertise in Python core Data types, Regular Expressions, Looping, and object Oriented Programming
Master the concepts of File Operations, Functions, Special methods of defining a Class and SQLite in Python
Take a quick overview on Panda
Learn how to manage Hadoop File System
Get an understanding on Server logs, Pig script and Work Flow Editor
Work on a detailed Project on Web Logging in Python and Implement everything you learnt on a live Project
Work on Minor and Major Projects applying programming techniques of Scala to run on Spark applications


Start learning Spark | Scala | Python from basics to advance levels.
https://goo.gl/4SEsJR


From christopher_reimer at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 27 21:12:02 2016
From: christopher_reimer at yahoo.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 18:12:02 -0700
Subject: Differences between Class(Object) and Class(Dict) for dictionary
 usage?
In-Reply-To: <1461729360.3276080.590752673.7A6E1041@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
 <1461729360.3276080.590752673.7A6E1041@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <57216362.8060209@yahoo.com>

On 4/26/2016 8:56 PM, Random832 wrote:
> what exactly do you mean by property decorators? If you're just 
> accessing them in a dictionary what's the benefit over having the 
> values be simple attributes rather than properties?

After considering the feedback I got for sanity checking my code, I've 
decided to simplify the base class for the chess pieces (see code 
below). All the variables are stored inside a dictionary with most 
values accessible through properties. A custom dictionary can be loaded 
through the constructor and or saved out through the fetch_state method. 
The subclasses only have to implement the is_move_valid method, which is 
different for each type of chess piece.

Thank you,

Chris R.



class Piece(object):
     def __init__(self, color, position, state=None):
         if state is None:
             self._state = {
                 'class': self.__class__.__name__,
                 'color': color,
                 'first_move': True,
                 'initial_position': position,
                 'move_count': 0,
                 'name': color.title() + ' ' + self.__class__.__name__,
                 'notation': color.title()[:1] + 
self.__class__.__name__[:1],
                 'position': position
             }
         else:
             self._state = state

     @property
     def color(self):
         return self._state['color']

     def fetch_state(self):
         return self._state

     def is_move_valid(self, new_position, board_state):
         raise NotImplementedError

     @property
     def move_count(self):
         return self._state['move_count']

     @property
     def name(self):
         return self._state['name']

     @property
     def notation(self):
         return self._state['notation']

     @property
     def position(self):
         return self._state['position']

     @position.setter
     def position(self, position):
         self._state['position'] = position
         if self._state['first_move']:
             self._state['first_move'] = False
         self._state['move_count'] += 1



From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Wed Apr 27 21:12:57 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 18:12:57 -0700
Subject: Differences between Class(Object) and Class(Dict) for dictionary
 usage?
Message-ID: <57216399.1050702@icloud.com>

On 4/26/2016 8:56 PM, Random832 wrote:
> what exactly do you mean by property decorators? If you're just 
> accessing them in a dictionary what's the benefit over having the 
> values be simple attributes rather than properties?

After considering the feedback I got for sanity checking my code, I've 
decided to simplify the base class for the chess pieces (see code 
below). All the variables are stored inside a dictionary with most 
values accessible through properties. A custom dictionary can be loaded 
through the constructor and or saved out through the fetch_state method. 
The subclasses only have to implement the is_move_valid method, which is 
different for each type of chess piece.

Thank you,

Chris R.



class Piece(object):
     def __init__(self, color, position, state=None):
         if state is None:
             self._state = {
                 'class': self.__class__.__name__,
                 'color': color,
                 'first_move': True,
                 'initial_position': position,
                 'move_count': 0,
                 'name': color.title() + ' ' + self.__class__.__name__,
                 'notation': color.title()[:1] + 
self.__class__.__name__[:1],
                 'position': position
             }
         else:
             self._state = state

     @property
     def color(self):
         return self._state['color']

     def fetch_state(self):
         return self._state

     def is_move_valid(self, new_position, board_state):
         raise NotImplementedError

     @property
     def move_count(self):
         return self._state['move_count']

     @property
     def name(self):
         return self._state['name']

     @property
     def notation(self):
         return self._state['notation']

     @property
     def position(self):
         return self._state['position']

     @position.setter
     def position(self, position):
         self._state['position'] = position
         if self._state['first_move']:
             self._state['first_move'] = False
         self._state['move_count'] += 1


From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Wed Apr 27 21:21:05 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 18:21:05 -0700
Subject: Differences between Class(Object) and Class(Dict) for dictionary
 usage?
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnr_O3m3=7RGUD1pu0Op93pZSLXKOMjHbecKRBeYn_30A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com> <57204EA6.7060007@stoneleaf.us>
 <CALwzidnr_O3m3=7RGUD1pu0Op93pZSLXKOMjHbecKRBeYn_30A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57216581.1070603@icloud.com>

On 4/27/2016 7:24 AM, Ian Kelly wrote:
> Some other great questions to ask yourself are "do I really want 
> len(my_object) to return the number of items in this dict" and "do I 
> really want list(my_object) to return all the keys in this dict"? If 
> the answer to all those is yes, then it's probably fair to say that 
> your object is-a dict and should be modeled as such.

These questions are more useful for me to consider. For my chess piece 
base class, the answer is no.

Thank you,

Chris R.


From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Wed Apr 27 21:27:22 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 18:27:22 -0700
Subject: Differences between Class(Object) and Class(Dict) for dictionary
 usage?
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
 <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <572166FA.3020108@icloud.com>

On 4/27/2016 7:33 AM, Ian Kelly wrote:

> This class definition looks muddled. Because Test2 inherits from dict,
> the object referred to by "self" will be a dict, and self.__dict__ is
> actually a *different* dict, containing the attributes of self. The
> line:
>
>      self.__dict__ = {'key', 'value'}
>
> is essentially equivalent to:
>
>      self.key = value
>
> and will be regardless of whether you inherit from object or dict. If
> you find this distinction confusing, then I recommend not inheriting
> from dict.

Which expression is Pythonic? I've seen both used in various examples on 
the Internet.

Thank you,

Chris R.


From torriem at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 22:00:08 2016
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 20:00:08 -0600
Subject: Differences between Class(Object) and Class(Dict) for dictionary
 usage?
In-Reply-To: <57216399.1050702@icloud.com>
References: <57216399.1050702@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <57216EA8.4060600@gmail.com>

On 04/27/2016 07:12 PM, Christopher Reimer wrote:
> class Piece(object):
>      def __init__(self, color, position, state=None):
>          if state is None:
>              self._state = {
>                  'class': self.__class__.__name__,
>                  'color': color,
>                  'first_move': True,
>                  'initial_position': position,
>                  'move_count': 0,
>                  'name': color.title() + ' ' + self.__class__.__name__,
>                  'notation': color.title()[:1] + 
> self.__class__.__name__[:1],
>                  'position': position
>              }

I am guessing that the reason you are storing state as it's own
dictionary is so that you can pass the state itself to the constructor?

>          else:
>              self._state = state

I'm not sure why you are storing the class name in self._state above,
but keep in mind that this part of the constructor will just reference
whatever was in the passed-in state object, whether it's right or wrong.
 So the value of self._state.class and self._state.notation may or may
not be right, compared to what is set in the previous section if None is
passed in.  Also self._state = state means that the state object passed
will be the self._state object.  Not a copy, but the exact same object.
 So multiple instances could have the exact object as self._state.  Not
sure if this is what you intended or not.

Personally I would ditch the self._state dictionary entirely and store
the state directly as instance attributes.  self.color, self.first_move,
etc.  For the constructor if you want to duplicate another object's
state, just pass the entire object as an argument and copy the
attributes manually, rather than passing around the state dict.

I know you've stated reasons for doing things the way you have, but this
self._state dict smells a bit funny, especially where you have
self._state = state, which means that several instances could have the
exact same state object at the same time and strikes me as mildly
un-pythonic and very confusing.  "State" is what instances themselves
are supposed to track by design.  I recommend you use this feature
rather than duplicating it with your own error-prone dict handling.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Apr 27 22:07:58 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 12:07:58 +1000
Subject: Pythonic style (was: Differences between Class(Object) and
 Class(Dict) for dictionary usage?)
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
 <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <572166FA.3020108@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <85y47yjxj5.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>

Christopher Reimer <christopher_reimer at icloud.com> writes:

> On 4/27/2016 7:33 AM, Ian Kelly wrote:
>
> >      self.__dict__ = {'key', 'value'}
> >
> >      self.key = value
>
> Which expression is Pythonic?

(Note that assignment is not an expression in Python; assigment is a
statement.)

> I've seen both used in various examples on the Internet.

I would say the latter is more Pythonic, because it:

* Better conveys the intention (?set the value of the ?self.key?
  attribute?).

* Uses the built-in mechanisms of Python (don't invoke magic attributes,
  instead use the system that makes use of them behind the scenes).

* Expresses that intention more concisely (fewer terms).

* Expresses that intention more clearly (less syntactic noise).

-- 
 \        ?Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits.? ?Mark |
  `\                                       Twain, _Pudd'n'head Wilson_ |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Wed Apr 27 22:49:15 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 19:49:15 -0700
Subject: Differences between Class(Object) and Class(Dict) for dictionary
 usage?
In-Reply-To: <57216EA8.4060600@gmail.com>
References: <57216399.1050702@icloud.com> <57216EA8.4060600@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57217A2B.4060709@icloud.com>

On 4/27/2016 7:00 PM, Michael Torrie wrote:
> I am guessing that the reason you are storing state as it's own 
> dictionary is so that you can pass the state itself to the constructor? 

Someone said it was bad to store the object itself to file (my original 
plan) and that I should use a dictionary instead. This is my 
implementation of that idea. However, saving and loading data is far 
down my to do list.

> I know you've stated reasons for doing things the way you have, but 
> this self._state dict smells a bit funny, especially where you have 
> self._state = state, which means that several instances could have the 
> exact same state object at the same time and strikes me as mildly 
> un-pythonic and very confusing. "State" is what instances themselves 
> are supposed to track by design. I recommend you use this feature 
> rather than duplicating it with your own error-prone dict handling. 

So far the code is working as designed for new chess pieces (see below).

Thank you,

Chris R.

Rook('white', (1, 1)) @ 2106251742008
Knight('white', (1, 2)) @ 2106251755648
Bishop('white', (1, 3)) @ 2106251755760
Queen('white', (1, 4)) @ 2106251755872
King('white', (1, 5)) @ 2106251755984
Bishop('white', (1, 6)) @ 2106251756096
Knight('white', (1, 7)) @ 2106251756208
Rook('white', (1, 8)) @ 2106251756320
Pawn('white', (2, 1)) @ 2106251756432
Pawn('white', (2, 2)) @ 2106251756544
Pawn('white', (2, 3)) @ 2106251756656
Pawn('white', (2, 4)) @ 2106251756768
Pawn('white', (2, 5)) @ 2106251756880
Pawn('white', (2, 6)) @ 2106251756992
Pawn('white', (2, 7)) @ 2106251757104
Pawn('white', (2, 8)) @ 2106251757216
Pawn('black', (7, 1)) @ 2106251742288
Pawn('black', (7, 2)) @ 2106251742400
Pawn('black', (7, 3)) @ 2106251742512
Pawn('black', (7, 4)) @ 2106251742624
Pawn('black', (7, 5)) @ 2106251742736
Pawn('black', (7, 6)) @ 2106251742848
Pawn('black', (7, 7)) @ 2106251742960
Pawn('black', (7, 8)) @ 2106251743072
Rook('black', (8, 1)) @ 2106251743184
Knight('black', (8, 2)) @ 2106251742120
Bishop('black', (8, 3)) @ 2106251740608
Queen('black', (8, 4)) @ 2106251740496
King('black', (8, 5)) @ 2106251740832
Bishop('black', (8, 6)) @ 2106251741672
Knight('black', (8, 7)) @ 2106251741784
Rook('black', (8, 8)) @ 2106251741896



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Apr 27 23:05:27 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 20:05:27 -0700
Subject: Differences between Class(Object) and Class(Dict) for dictionary
 usage?
In-Reply-To: <57216399.1050702@icloud.com>
References: <57216399.1050702@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <57217DF7.1030509@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/27/2016 06:12 PM, Christopher Reimer wrote:

> After considering the feedback I got for sanity checking my code, I've
> decided to simplify the base class for the chess pieces (see code
> below). All the variables are stored inside a dictionary with most
> values accessible through properties. A custom dictionary can be loaded
> through the constructor and or saved out through the fetch_state method.
> The subclasses only have to implement the is_move_valid method, which is
> different for each type of chess piece.

Much better.

Here's my take on it:

class Piece(object):
     def __init__(self, color, position):
          self._color = color
          self._first_move = True
          self._initial_position = position
          self._move_count = 0
          self._name = color.title() + ' ' + self.__class__.__name__
          self._notation = color.title()[:1] + self.__class__.__name__[:1]
          self._position = position

     @property
     def color(self):
         return self._color

     def is_move_valid(self, new_position, board_state):
         raise NotImplementedError

     @property
     def move_count(self):
         return self._move_count

     @property
     def name(self):
         return self._name

     @property
     def notation(self):
         return self._notation

     @property
     def position(self):
         return self._position

     @position.setter
     def position(self, position):
         self._position = position
         if self._first_move:
             self._first_move = False
         self._move_count += 1

Now all the attributes are, well, attributes of the instance (that's 
what instances are for).

I ripped out the fetch_state because that will take more work -- you 
can't pass a Pawn's saved state in to Piece and get the results you 
want.  pickle is worth looking at for saving/restoring.

Also, your code will give the same notation to Kings and Knights.

--
~Ethan~


From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Wed Apr 27 23:07:31 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 20:07:31 -0700
Subject: Pythonic style (was: Differences between Class(Object) and
 Class(Dict) for dictionary usage?)
In-Reply-To: <85y47yjxj5.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
 <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <572166FA.3020108@icloud.com> <85y47yjxj5.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <57217E73.9040907@icloud.com>

On 4/27/2016 7:07 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> I would say the latter is more Pythonic, because it:
>
> * Better conveys the intention (?set the value of the ?self.key?
>    attribute?).
>
> * Uses the built-in mechanisms of Python (don't invoke magic attributes,
>    instead use the system that makes use of them behind the scenes).
>
> * Expresses that intention more concisely (fewer terms).
>
> * Expresses that intention more clearly (less syntactic noise).

In short,  my original code before I turned it into a separate 
dictionary. *sigh*

Thank you,

Chris R.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Apr 27 23:23:31 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:23:31 +1000
Subject: Pythonic style
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
 <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <572166FA.3020108@icloud.com> <85y47yjxj5.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <57217E73.9040907@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <85twimju18.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Christopher Reimer <christopher_reimer at icloud.com> writes:

> In short,  my original code before I turned it into a separate
> dictionary. *sigh*

No, I think that misses the points that were being made. The discussion
you're talking about was *not* to say ?attribute access is better than
dictionary access?, or vice versa. Each is good for its purpose.

Rather, the discussion was to drive home the point that in Python those
are *two distinct concepts*, and you need to not conflate them.

If you want items in a mapping, explicitly use a Python ?dict? instance.
If you want attributes that describe an object, explicitly use
attributes of that object. Deliberately choose which one makes more
sense.

-- 
 \         ?The double standard that exempts religious activities from |
  `\       almost all standards of accountability should be dismantled |
_o__)                   once and for all.? ?Daniel Dennett, 2010-01-12 |
Ben Finney



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Apr 27 23:52:24 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 20:52:24 -0700
Subject: Pythonic style
In-Reply-To: <57217E73.9040907@icloud.com>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
 <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <572166FA.3020108@icloud.com> <85y47yjxj5.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <57217E73.9040907@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <572188F8.7010304@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/27/2016 08:07 PM, Christopher Reimer wrote:
> On 4/27/2016 7:07 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
 >> Ian Kelly wrote:

>>>      self.__dict__ = {'key', 'value'}
>>>
>>> is essentially equivalent to:
>>>
>>>      self.key = value
 >>
>> I would say the latter is more Pythonic, because it:
 >>
 >> [snip]
 >>
>> * Uses the built-in mechanisms of Python (don't invoke magic attributes,
>>    instead use the system that makes use of them behind the scenes).
>
> In short,  my original code before I turned it into a separate
> dictionary. *sigh*

No.

The point Ben was trying to make is this:  you should never* call 
__dunder__ methods in normal code; there is no need to do so:

- use len(), not __len__()
- use next(), not __next__()
- use some_instance.an_attribute, not some_instance.__dict__['an_attribute']

--
~Ethan~

* Okay, maybe /almost/ never.  About the only time you need to is when 
giving your classes special methods, such as __add__ or __repr__.


From torriem at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 23:52:37 2016
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 21:52:37 -0600
Subject: Differences between Class(Object) and Class(Dict) for dictionary
 usage?
In-Reply-To: <57217A2B.4060709@icloud.com>
References: <57216399.1050702@icloud.com> <57216EA8.4060600@gmail.com>
 <57217A2B.4060709@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <57218905.5090807@gmail.com>

On 04/27/2016 08:49 PM, Christopher Reimer wrote:
> On 4/27/2016 7:00 PM, Michael Torrie wrote:
>> I am guessing that the reason you are storing state as it's own 
>> dictionary is so that you can pass the state itself to the constructor? 
> 
> Someone said it was bad to store the object itself to file (my original 
> plan) and that I should use a dictionary instead. This is my 
> implementation of that idea. However, saving and loading data is far 
> down my to do list.

Pickle should be able to serialize an object that stores state as
attributes, as that's what objects normally do.

But you could also serialize and save the objects yourself manually too.
 In fact if it were me I would save game state to some kind of ini file,
which would mean manually going through each object and writing out the
relevant data to the ini file using the right syntax. And then reverse
the process when restoring from a file.  XML could be another format
used for your file, if you're into that kind of thing.




From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Wed Apr 27 23:53:00 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 20:53:00 -0700
Subject: Differences between Class(Object) and Class(Dict) for dictionary
 usage?
In-Reply-To: <57217DF7.1030509@stoneleaf.us>
References: <57216399.1050702@icloud.com> <57217DF7.1030509@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <5721891C.1090904@icloud.com>

On 4/27/2016 8:05 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> I ripped out the fetch_state because that will take more work -- you 
> can't pass a Pawn's saved state in to Piece and get the results you 
> want.  pickle is worth looking at for saving/restoring.

The original idea was to pass a Pawn dictionary to the constructor of 
the Pawn object. The Piece object will throw a NotImplementedError if 
called directly. I guess I'll have to look at pickle sooner rather than 
later.

> Also, your code will give the same notation to Kings and Knights.

Good catch. I knew I was forgetting something. I overrode variable in 
the Knight class to produce the correct notation.

Thank you,

Chris R.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 23:56:05 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:56:05 +1000
Subject: Pythonic style
In-Reply-To: <572188F8.7010304@stoneleaf.us>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
 <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <572166FA.3020108@icloud.com> <85y47yjxj5.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <57217E73.9040907@icloud.com> <572188F8.7010304@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrkELf4rb+1UgmPwHxmd+wzp6WLxxN+ut4L3xJuHhmqmA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 1:52 PM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
>
> The point Ben was trying to make is this:  you should never* call __dunder__
> methods in normal code; there is no need to do so:
>
> - use len(), not __len__()
> - use next(), not __next__()
> - use some_instance.an_attribute, not some_instance.__dict__['an_attribute']
>
> --
> ~Ethan~
>
> * Okay, maybe /almost/ never.  About the only time you need to is when
> giving your classes special methods, such as __add__ or __repr__.

My rule of thumb is: Dunders are for defining, not for calling. It's
not a hard-and-fast rule, but it'll get you through 99%+ of
situations.

ChrisA


From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Thu Apr 28 00:00:44 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 21:00:44 -0700
Subject: Pythonic style
In-Reply-To: <85twimju18.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
 <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <572166FA.3020108@icloud.com> <85y47yjxj5.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <57217E73.9040907@icloud.com> <85twimju18.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <57218AEC.6020302@icloud.com>

On 4/27/2016 8:23 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> If you want items in a mapping, explicitly use a Python ?dict? instance.
> If you want attributes that describe an object, explicitly use
> attributes of that object. Deliberately choose which one makes more
> sense.

Okay, that makes sense.

Thank you,

Chris R.



From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Thu Apr 28 00:03:58 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 21:03:58 -0700
Subject: Pythonic style
In-Reply-To: <572188F8.7010304@stoneleaf.us>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
 <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <572166FA.3020108@icloud.com> <85y47yjxj5.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <57217E73.9040907@icloud.com> <572188F8.7010304@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <57218BAE.1030408@icloud.com>

On 4/27/2016 8:52 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
>
> The point Ben was trying to make is this:  you should never* call 
> __dunder__ methods in normal code; there is no need to do so:
>
> - use len(), not __len__()
> - use next(), not __next__()
> - use some_instance.an_attribute, not 
> some_instance.__dict__['an_attribute']
>

DOH! I need a doughnut. :)

Thank you,

Chris R.


From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Thu Apr 28 00:06:26 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 21:06:26 -0700
Subject: Differences between Class(Object) and Class(Dict) for dictionary
 usage?
In-Reply-To: <57218905.5090807@gmail.com>
References: <57216399.1050702@icloud.com> <57216EA8.4060600@gmail.com>
 <57217A2B.4060709@icloud.com> <57218905.5090807@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57218C42.5040804@icloud.com>

On 4/27/2016 8:52 PM, Michael Torrie wrote:
>   In fact if it were me I would save game state to some kind of ini file,
> which would mean manually going through each object and writing out the
> relevant data to the ini file using the right syntax. And then reverse
> the process when restoring from a file.  XML could be another format
> used for your file, if you're into that kind of thing.

Funny that you should mention the ini file. I wrote a ConfigParser class 
for my const['whatever'] variable. It wouldn't take much to use that in 
the meantime until I get a handle on pickle.

Thank you,

Chris R.


From torriem at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 00:23:56 2016
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 22:23:56 -0600
Subject: Differences between Class(Object) and Class(Dict) for dictionary
 usage?
In-Reply-To: <57218C42.5040804@icloud.com>
References: <57216399.1050702@icloud.com> <57216EA8.4060600@gmail.com>
 <57217A2B.4060709@icloud.com> <57218905.5090807@gmail.com>
 <57218C42.5040804@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <5721905C.4040901@gmail.com>

On 04/27/2016 10:06 PM, Christopher Reimer wrote:
> On 4/27/2016 8:52 PM, Michael Torrie wrote:
>>   In fact if it were me I would save game state to some kind of ini file,
>> which would mean manually going through each object and writing out the
>> relevant data to the ini file using the right syntax. And then reverse
>> the process when restoring from a file.  XML could be another format
>> used for your file, if you're into that kind of thing.
> 
> Funny that you should mention the ini file. I wrote a ConfigParser class 
> for my const['whatever'] variable. It wouldn't take much to use that in 
> the meantime until I get a handle on pickle.

I'm not sure pickle is the way to go anyway.  Especially for your
purposes. Definitely you could make a ConfigParser that could read and
write your object instances.



From gengyangcai at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 00:37:47 2016
From: gengyangcai at gmail.com (Cai Gengyang)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 21:37:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python Madlibs.py code and error message
Message-ID: <3cff626c-28a2-499c-9877-de2df4d459d0@googlegroups.com>

Python Madlibs.py code and error message --- Anyone can help? I keep getting stuck here ...




# This program does the following ... writes a Mad Libs story

# Author: Cai Gengyang

print "Mad Libs is starting!"

name = raw_input("Enter a name: ")

adjective1 = raw_input("Enter an adjective: ")

adjective2 = raw_input("Enter a second adjective: ")

adjective3 = raw_input("Enter a third adjective: ")

verb1 = raw_input("Enter a verb: ")

verb2 = raw_input("Enter a second verb: ")

verb3 = raw_input("Enter a third verb: ")

noun1 = raw_input("Enter a noun: ")

noun2 = raw_input("Enter a noun: ")

noun3 = raw_input("Enter a noun: ")

noun4 = raw_input("Enter a noun: ")

animal = raw_input("Enter an animal: ")

food = raw_input("Enter a food: ")

fruit = raw_input("Enter a fruit: ")

number = raw_input("Enter a number: ")

superhero_name = raw_input("Enter a superhero_name: ")

country = raw_input("Enter a country: ")

dessert = raw_input("Enter a dessert: ")

year = raw_input("Enter a year: ")


#The template for the story

STORY = "This morning I woke up and felt %s because _ was going to finally %s over the big _ %s. On the other side of the %s were many %ss protesting to keep %s in stores. The crowd began to _ to the rythym of the %s, which made all of the %ss very _. %s tried to _ into the sewers and found %s rats. Needing help, %s quickly called %s. %s appeared and saved %s by flying to %s and dropping _ into a puddle of %s. %s then fell asleep and woke up in the year _, in a world where %ss ruled the world."

print STORY % (Adjective1, name, Verb1, Adjective2, Noun1, Noun2, animal, food, Verb2, Noun3, fruit, Adjective3, name, Verb3, number, name , superhero_name, superhero_name, name, country, name, dessert, name, year, Noun4)


Terminal Output :

$ python Madlibs.py 

Mad Libs is starting! 

Enter a name: Cai Gengyang  

Enter an adjective: beautiful              

Enter a second adjective: honest

Enter a third adjective: huge

Enter a verb: hit 

Enter a second verb: run 

Enter a third verb: jump 

Enter a noun: anger 

Enter a noun: belief

Enter a noun: wealth

Enter a noun: regret 

Enter an animal: elephant

Enter a food: burger  

Enter a fruit: watermelon 

Enter a number: 6

Enter a superhero_name: batman 

Enter a country: America 

Enter a dessert: icekachang 

Enter a year: 1984

Traceback (most recent call last):   

File "Madlibs.py", line 34, in <mo             

dule> 

print STORY % (Adjective1, name,

Verb1, Adjective2, Noun1, Noun2, an 

imal, food, Verb2, Noun3, fruit, Adj

ective3, name, Verb3, number, name ,

superhero_name, superhero_name, nam   

e, country, name, dessert, name, yea                 

r, Noun4) 

NameError: name 'Adjective1' is not 

defined


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Apr 28 00:50:15 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 16:50:15 +1200
Subject: Python Madlibs.py code and error message
In-Reply-To: <3cff626c-28a2-499c-9877-de2df4d459d0@googlegroups.com>
References: <3cff626c-28a2-499c-9877-de2df4d459d0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dodj48Fb8o8U1@mid.individual.net>

Cai Gengyang wrote:

> adjective1 = raw_input("Enter an adjective: ")
> 
> NameError: name 'Adjective1' is not defined

Python is case-sensitive. You've spelled it "adjective1" in one
place and "Adjective1" in another. You need to be consistent.

-- 
Greg


From me+python at ixokai.io  Thu Apr 28 00:55:59 2016
From: me+python at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 21:55:59 -0700
Subject: Python Madlibs.py code and error message
In-Reply-To: <3cff626c-28a2-499c-9877-de2df4d459d0@googlegroups.com>
References: <3cff626c-28a2-499c-9877-de2df4d459d0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1461819359.3234904.591932537.54A7076B@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016, at 09:37 PM, Cai Gengyang wrote:
> print STORY % (Adjective1, name, Verb1, Adjective2, Noun1, Noun2, animal,
> food, Verb2, Noun3, fruit, Adjective3, name, Verb3, number, name ,
> superhero_name, superhero_name, name, country, name, dessert, name, year,
> Noun4)

Python is case-sensitive. "Adjective1" and "adjective1" are separate
things. In your code you're reading into "adjective1".

-- 
Stephen Hansen
  m e @ i x o k a i . i o


From gengyangcai at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 01:01:21 2016
From: gengyangcai at gmail.com (Cai Gengyang)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 22:01:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python Madlibs.py code and error message
In-Reply-To: <dodj48Fb8o8U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <3cff626c-28a2-499c-9877-de2df4d459d0@googlegroups.com>
 <dodj48Fb8o8U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <6c0d96c5-c7f5-4659-a2e9-20f8d202d701@googlegroups.com>

I changed it to all lowercase, this time I get a different error message though (a TypeError message) 


# This program does the following ... writes a Mad Libs story 

# Author: Cai Gengyang 

print "Mad Libs is starting!" 

name = raw_input("Enter a name: ") 

adjective1 = raw_input("Enter an adjective: ") 

adjective2 = raw_input("Enter a second adjective: ") 

adjective3 = raw_input("Enter a third adjective: ") 

verb1 = raw_input("Enter a verb: ") 

verb2 = raw_input("Enter a second verb: ") 

verb3 = raw_input("Enter a third verb: ") 

noun1 = raw_input("Enter a noun: ") 

noun2 = raw_input("Enter a noun: ") 

noun3 = raw_input("Enter a noun: ") 

noun4 = raw_input("Enter a noun: ") 

animal = raw_input("Enter an animal: ") 

food = raw_input("Enter a food: ") 

fruit = raw_input("Enter a fruit: ") 

number = raw_input("Enter a number: ") 

superhero_name = raw_input("Enter a superhero_name: ") 

country = raw_input("Enter a country: ") 

dessert = raw_input("Enter a dessert: ") 

year = raw_input("Enter a year: ") 


#The template for the story 

STORY = "This morning I woke up and felt %s because _ was going to finally %s over the big _ %s. On the other side of the %s were many %ss protesting to keep %s in stores. The crowd began to _ to the rythym of the %s, which made all of the %ss very _. %s tried to _ into the sewers and found %s rats. Needing help, %s quickly called %s. %s appeared and saved %s by flying to %s and dropping _ into a puddle of %s. %s then fell asleep and woke up in the year _, in a world where %ss ruled the world." 

print STORY % (adjective1, name, verb1, adjective2, noun1, noun2, animal, food, verb2, noun3, fruit, adjective3, name, verb3, number, name , superhero_name, superhero_name, name, country, name, dessert, name, year, noun4) 


Terminal Output : 

$ python Madlibs.py 

Mad Libs is starting! 

Enter a name: andrew 

Enter an adjective: beautiful               

Enter a second adjective: honest 

Enter a third adjective: pretty

Enter a verb: hit 

Enter a second verb: run 

Enter a third verb: fire

Enter a noun: honesty

Enter a noun: love

Enter a noun: peace

Enter a noun: wisdom

Enter an animal: elephant 

Enter a food: burger   

Enter a fruit: watermelon 

Enter a number: 1985 

Enter a superhero_name: batman 

Enter a country: america 

Enter a dessert: icekachang 

Enter a year: 1982 

Traceback (most recent call last):   

File "Madlibs.py", line 34, in <mo             

dule> 

print STORY % (adjective1, name, 

verb1, adjective2, noun1, noun2, an 

imal, food, verb2, noun3, fruit, adj 

ective3, name, verb3, number, name , 

superhero_name, superhero_name, nam   

e, country, name, dessert, name, yea                 

r, noun4) 

TypeError: not all arguments converted during string formatting











On Thursday, April 28, 2016 at 12:50:28 PM UTC+8, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Cai Gengyang wrote:
> 
> > adjective1 = raw_input("Enter an adjective: ")
> > 
> > NameError: name 'Adjective1' is not defined
> 
> Python is case-sensitive. You've spelled it "adjective1" in one
> place and "Adjective1" in another. You need to be consistent.
> 
> -- 
> Greg



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 01:16:40 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 22:16:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Pythonic style
In-Reply-To: <mailman.168.1461815768.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
 <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <572166FA.3020108@icloud.com> <85y47yjxj5.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <57217E73.9040907@icloud.com> <572188F8.7010304@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmrkELf4rb+1UgmPwHxmd+wzp6WLxxN+ut4L3xJuHhmqmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.168.1461815768.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c7ca7770-7dfa-463c-b776-cab472d9f79e@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 28, 2016 at 9:26:21 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> My rule of thumb is: Dunders are for defining, not for calling. It's
> not a hard-and-fast rule, but it'll get you through 99%+ of
> situations.

Neat and clever.
Should get in the docs somewhere


From me+python at ixokai.io  Thu Apr 28 01:16:57 2016
From: me+python at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 22:16:57 -0700
Subject: Python Madlibs.py code and error message
In-Reply-To: <6c0d96c5-c7f5-4659-a2e9-20f8d202d701@googlegroups.com>
References: <3cff626c-28a2-499c-9877-de2df4d459d0@googlegroups.com>
 <dodj48Fb8o8U1@mid.individual.net>
 <6c0d96c5-c7f5-4659-a2e9-20f8d202d701@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1461820617.3238425.591942249.1484DAC3@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016, at 10:01 PM, Cai Gengyang wrote:
> I changed it to all lowercase, this time I get a different error message
> though (a TypeError message) 

The error message means there's a mismatch between the number of
formatting instructions (ie, %s) and arguments passed to formatting. I
leave it to you to count and find what's missing or extra, because I'm
seriously not going to do that :)

-- 
Stephen Hansen
  m e @ i x o k a i . i o


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 28 01:31:55 2016
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 15:31:55 +1000
Subject: Pythonic style
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
 <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <572166FA.3020108@icloud.com> <85y47yjxj5.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <57217E73.9040907@icloud.com> <85twimju18.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.164.1461813821.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5721a04d$0$2781$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>

On Thursday 28 April 2016 13:23, Ben Finney wrote:

> Christopher Reimer <christopher_reimer at icloud.com> writes:
> 
>> In short,  my original code before I turned it into a separate
>> dictionary. *sigh*
> 
> No, I think that misses the points that were being made. The discussion
> you're talking about was *not* to say ?attribute access is better than
> dictionary access?, or vice versa. Each is good for its purpose.
> 
> Rather, the discussion was to drive home the point that in Python those
> are *two distinct concepts*, and you need to not conflate them.
> 
> If you want items in a mapping, explicitly use a Python ?dict? instance.
> If you want attributes that describe an object, explicitly use
> attributes of that object. Deliberately choose which one makes more
> sense.


Think of it like this: attribute access is for accessing parts of a thing:

dog.tail
car.engine
cup.handle

or one of a small number of fixed fields from a record:

employment_record.start_date
employee.salary
autopsy.cause_of_death
person.title


Mappings (dicts) are for recording a potentially unlimited number of 
distinct records with arbitrary keys, especially since the keys don't have 
to be valid identifiers:

employees['Fred Smith']
students['Joanna McTavish']
prisoners[12345]
catalog['Widgets']['GMH-12345']
dictionary['update']


While Python allows you to write code to use attribute syntax for item 
access, doing so is a category mistake and leads to semantic confusion and 
potential bugs:

employees.Fred_Smith
students.Joanna_McTavish
prisoners.P12345
parts.widgets.GMH_12345
dictionary.update


The last example shows how mixing up these two distinct concepts can lead to 
problems. Should dictionary.update refer to the update method, or the entry 
for the word "update"?



-- 
Steve



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Apr 28 01:32:51 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 15:32:51 +1000
Subject: Python Madlibs.py code and error message
References: <3cff626c-28a2-499c-9877-de2df4d459d0@googlegroups.com>
 <dodj48Fb8o8U1@mid.individual.net>
 <6c0d96c5-c7f5-4659-a2e9-20f8d202d701@googlegroups.com>
 <1461820617.3238425.591942249.1484DAC3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <85fuu6jo1o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Stephen Hansen <me+python at ixokai.io> writes:

> The error message means there's a mismatch between the number of
> formatting instructions (ie, %s) and arguments passed to formatting. I
> leave it to you to count and find what's missing or extra, because I'm
> seriously not going to do that :)

Better: when you have many semantically-different values, use named (not
positional) parameters in the format string.

    Some simple format string examples:

    "First, thou shalt count to {0}" # References first positional argument
    "Bring me a {}"                  # Implicitly references the first positional argument
    "From {} to {}"                  # Same as "From {0} to {1}"
    "My quest is {name}"             # References keyword argument 'name'
    [?]

    <URL:https://docs.python.org/3/library/string.html#formatstrings>

By using names, you will not need to count positional arguments; and
when there's an error, the error will state the name, making it easier
to debug.

Also feasible with ?%? syntax. But, if you're writing new code, you may
as well use the more powerful ?str.format? described at that URL.

-- 
 \       ?To have the choice between proprietary software packages, is |
  `\      being able to choose your master. Freedom means not having a |
_o__)                        master.? ?Richard M. Stallman, 2007-05-16 |
Ben Finney



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Apr 28 02:12:58 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 23:12:58 -0700
Subject: Differences between Class(Object) and Class(Dict) for dictionary
 usage?
In-Reply-To: <57218C42.5040804@icloud.com>
References: <57216399.1050702@icloud.com> <57216EA8.4060600@gmail.com>
 <57217A2B.4060709@icloud.com> <57218905.5090807@gmail.com>
 <57218C42.5040804@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <5721A9EA.1050205@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/27/2016 09:06 PM, Christopher Reimer wrote:
> On 4/27/2016 8:52 PM, Michael Torrie wrote:

>>   In fact if it were me I would save game state to some kind of ini file,
>> which would mean manually going through each object and writing out the
>> relevant data to the ini file using the right syntax. And then reverse
>> the process when restoring from a file.  XML could be another format
>> used for your file, if you're into that kind of thing.
>
> Funny that you should mention the ini file. I wrote a ConfigParser class
> for my const['whatever'] variable. It wouldn't take much to use that in
> the meantime until I get a handle on pickle.

If you are saving chess game state, you should look at the Portable Game 
Notation format:

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Game_Notation

--
~Ethan~



From me at ixokai.io  Thu Apr 28 02:50:46 2016
From: me at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 23:50:46 -0700
Subject: Python Madlibs.py code and error message
In-Reply-To: <85fuu6jo1o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <3cff626c-28a2-499c-9877-de2df4d459d0@googlegroups.com>
 <dodj48Fb8o8U1@mid.individual.net>
 <6c0d96c5-c7f5-4659-a2e9-20f8d202d701@googlegroups.com>
 <1461820617.3238425.591942249.1484DAC3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85fuu6jo1o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <1461826246.3257796.591992793.54C5CC58@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016, at 10:32 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Stephen Hansen <me+python at ixokai.io> writes:
> 
> > The error message means there's a mismatch between the number of
> > formatting instructions (ie, %s) and arguments passed to formatting. I
> > leave it to you to count and find what's missing or extra, because I'm
> > seriously not going to do that :)
> 
> Better: when you have many semantically-different values, use named (not
> positional) parameters in the format string.
> 
>     Some simple format string examples:
> 
>     "First, thou shalt count to {0}" # References first positional
>     argument
>     "Bring me a {}"                  # Implicitly references the first
>     positional argument
>     "From {} to {}"                  # Same as "From {0} to {1}"
>     "My quest is {name}"             # References keyword argument 'name'
>     [?]
> 
>     <URL:https://docs.python.org/3/library/string.html#formatstrings>

Except the poster is not using Python 3, so all of this is for naught. 

-- 
Stephen Hansen
  m e @ i x o k a i  . i o


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Apr 28 02:55:38 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 16:55:38 +1000
Subject: Python Madlibs.py code and error message
References: <3cff626c-28a2-499c-9877-de2df4d459d0@googlegroups.com>
 <dodj48Fb8o8U1@mid.individual.net>
 <6c0d96c5-c7f5-4659-a2e9-20f8d202d701@googlegroups.com>
 <1461820617.3238425.591942249.1484DAC3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85fuu6jo1o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <1461826246.3257796.591992793.54C5CC58@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <85bn4ujk7p.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Stephen Hansen <me at ixokai.io> writes:

> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016, at 10:32 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> > Better: when you have many semantically-different values, use named
> > (not positional) parameters in the format string. [?]
> > 
> >     <URL:https://docs.python.org/3/library/string.html#formatstrings>
>
> Except the poster is not using Python 3, so all of this is for naught. 

Everything I described above works fine in Python 2. Any still-supported
version has ?str.format?.

-- 
 \        ?The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things |
  `\           without evidence.? ?Thomas Henry Huxley, _Evolution and |
_o__)                                                    Ethics_, 1893 |
Ben Finney



From me at ixokai.io  Thu Apr 28 03:08:50 2016
From: me at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 00:08:50 -0700
Subject: Python Madlibs.py code and error message
In-Reply-To: <85bn4ujk7p.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <3cff626c-28a2-499c-9877-de2df4d459d0@googlegroups.com>
 <dodj48Fb8o8U1@mid.individual.net>
 <6c0d96c5-c7f5-4659-a2e9-20f8d202d701@googlegroups.com>
 <1461820617.3238425.591942249.1484DAC3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85fuu6jo1o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <1461826246.3257796.591992793.54C5CC58@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85bn4ujk7p.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <1461827330.3261212.591998673.4D215991@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016, at 11:55 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Stephen Hansen <me at ixokai.io> writes:
> 
> > On Wed, Apr 27, 2016, at 10:32 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> > > Better: when you have many semantically-different values, use named
> > > (not positional) parameters in the format string. [?]
> > > 
> > >     <URL:https://docs.python.org/3/library/string.html#formatstrings>
> >
> > Except the poster is not using Python 3, so all of this is for naught. 
> 
> Everything I described above works fine in Python 2. Any still-supported
> version has ?str.format?.

This response is completely unhelpful. The OP is using Python 2, and
using %-formatting, and so you give a series of examples of using
str.format, to, what? Confuse matters?

You can show using non-positional values using the format the user is
using -- "%(name)s" formatting. You even reference a link to the Python
3 docs, even though the OP is running code which isn't 3.x compatible.
Confusion.

Wishing Python2 away isn't helpful. 

-- 
Stephen Hansen
  m e @ i x o k a i  . i o


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Apr 28 03:17:47 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 17:17:47 +1000
Subject: Python Madlibs.py code and error message
References: <3cff626c-28a2-499c-9877-de2df4d459d0@googlegroups.com>
 <dodj48Fb8o8U1@mid.individual.net>
 <6c0d96c5-c7f5-4659-a2e9-20f8d202d701@googlegroups.com>
 <1461820617.3238425.591942249.1484DAC3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85fuu6jo1o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <1461826246.3257796.591992793.54C5CC58@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85bn4ujk7p.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <1461827330.3261212.591998673.4D215991@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <857ffijj6s.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Stephen Hansen <me at ixokai.io> writes:

> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016, at 11:55 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> > Everything I described above works fine in Python 2.
>
> This response is completely unhelpful.

I'll let the OP be the judge of that.

> The OP is using Python 2, and using %-formatting, and so you give a
> series of examples of using str.format, to, what? Confuse matters?

I don't know why you keep raising Python 2 as though it matters. As I
pointed out, everything I discussed works fine on Python 2 without any
change.

More to the point, *even if* they continue using ?%? formatting, the
primary point was to use named parameters.

That is relevant to Python 3 and Python 2; it is relevant to ?%?
formatting and ?str.format? formatting. None of those need to change.

So I encourage the OP to try using named format parameters in *any* of
those, and then judge whether it is helpful.

-- 
 \              ?Begin with false premises and you risk reaching false |
  `\   conclusions. Begin with falsified premises and you forfeit your |
_o__)                          authority.? ?Kathryn Schulz, 2015-10-19 |
Ben Finney



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 28 03:25:32 2016
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 17:25:32 +1000
Subject: Python Madlibs.py code and error message
References: <3cff626c-28a2-499c-9877-de2df4d459d0@googlegroups.com>
 <dodj48Fb8o8U1@mid.individual.net>
 <6c0d96c5-c7f5-4659-a2e9-20f8d202d701@googlegroups.com>
 <1461820617.3238425.591942249.1484DAC3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85fuu6jo1o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <1461826246.3257796.591992793.54C5CC58@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85bn4ujk7p.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <1461827330.3261212.591998673.4D215991@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.179.1461827333.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5721baee$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thursday 28 April 2016 17:08, Stephen Hansen wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016, at 11:55 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
>> Stephen Hansen <me at ixokai.io> writes:
>> 
>> > On Wed, Apr 27, 2016, at 10:32 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
>> > > Better: when you have many semantically-different values, use named
>> > > (not positional) parameters in the format string. [?]
>> > > 
>> > >     <URL:https://docs.python.org/3/library/string.html#formatstrings>
>> >
>> > Except the poster is not using Python 3, so all of this is for naught.
>> 
>> Everything I described above works fine in Python 2. Any still-supported
>> version has ?str.format?.
> 
> This response is completely unhelpful. The OP is using Python 2, and
> using %-formatting, and so you give a series of examples of using
> str.format, to, what? Confuse matters?

How about we assume good faith and give Ben the benefit of the doubt that he 
simply made a minor and trivial misjudgement rather than accusing him of 
intentionally trying to confuse matters?

You are correct that the OP can use % formatting with named arguments. Ben 
is correct that the OP can also change his code to use str.format. Some 
people hate %-formatting and cannot wait to migrate to {}-formatting, and 
some people don't.

(For the record, Internet rumours that %-formatting is deprecated are simply 
not correct.)



-- 
Steve



From jfong at ms4.hinet.net  Thu Apr 28 04:27:06 2016
From: jfong at ms4.hinet.net (jfong at ms4.hinet.net)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 01:27:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dictionary is really not easy to handle
Message-ID: <8d6491e6-c266-49e9-bc47-c5e957d233ad@googlegroups.com>

I have a dictionary like this:

>>> dct ={1: 'D', 5: 'A', 2: 'B', 3: 'B', 4: 'E'}

The following code works:

>>> for k in dct: print(k, dct[k])
...
1 D
2 B
3 B
4 E
5 A

and this one too:

>>> for k,v in dct.items(): print(k,v)
...
1 D
2 B
3 B
4 E
5 A

But...this one?

>>> for k,v in dct: print(k,v)
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: 'int' object is not iterable

No idea what the error message means:-( Can anyone explain it? Thanks ahead.


From rahulraghu94 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 04:36:01 2016
From: rahulraghu94 at gmail.com (Rahul Raghunath)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 01:36:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: do_POST not working on http.server with python
Message-ID: <f94fb4f6-9e3b-4955-81ad-a054541322a7@googlegroups.com>

 0
down vote
favorite
	

I'm trying to create a simple http server with basic GET and POST functionality. The program is supposed to GET requests by printing out a simple webpage that greets a user and askes how he would rather be greeted. When the user enters a greeting of his choice, the webpage should now greet him as he had chosen.

While GET seems to be working fine, POST is not. I tried debugging by printing at every code execution and it seems to be getting stuck here:

ctype, pdict = cgi.parse_header(self.headers.getheader('content-type'))

I'll paste the code full code below, along with my terminal output.

Code:

    from http.server import BaseHTTPRequestHandler, HTTPServer
    import cgi


    class webServerHandler(BaseHTTPRequestHandler):

        def do_GET(self):
            try:
                if self.path.endswith("/hello"):
                    self.send_response(200)
                    self.send_header('Content-type', 'text/html')
                    self.end_headers()
                    output = ""
                    output += "<html><body>"
                    output += "<h1>Hello!</h1>"
                    output += '''<form method='POST' enctype='multipart/form-data' action='/hello'><h2>What would you like me to say?</h2><input name="message" type="text" ><input type="submit" value="Submit"> </form>'''
                    output += "</body></html>"
                    self.wfile.write(output.encode(encoding = 'utf_8'))
                    print (output)
                    return

                if self.path.endswith("/hola"):
                    self.send_response(200)
                    self.send_header('Content-type', 'text/html')
                    self.end_headers()
                    output = ""
                    output += "<html><body>"
                    output += "<h1>&#161 Hola !</h1>"
                    output += '''<form method='POST' enctype='multipart/form-data' action='/hello'><h2>What would you like me to say?</h2><input name="message" type="text" ><input type="submit" value="Submit"> </form>'''
                    output += "</body></html>"
                    self.wfile.write(output.encode(encoding = 'utf_8'))
                    print (output)
                    return

            except IOError:
                self.send_error(404, 'File Not Found: %s' % self.path)

        def do_POST(self):
            try:
                self.send_response(201)
                print("Sent response")
                self.send_header('Content-type', 'text/html')
                print("Sent headers")
                self.end_headers()
                print("Ended header")
                ctype, pdict = cgi.parse_header(self.headers.getheader('content-type'))
                print("Parsed headers")
                if ctype == 'multipart/form-data':
                    fields = cgi.parse_multipart(self.rfile, pdict)
                    messagecontent = fields.get('message')
                print("Receiver message content")
                output = ""
                output += "<html><body>"
                output += " <h2> Okay, how about this: </h2>"
                output += "<h1> %s </h1>" % messagecontent[0]
                output += '''<form method='POST' enctype='multipart/form-data' action='/hello'><h2>What would you like me to say?</h2><input name="message" type="text" ><input type="submit" value="Submit"> </form>'''
                output += "</body></html>"
                print(output)
                self.wfile.write(output.encode(encoding = 'utf_8'))
                print ("Wrote through CGI")
            except:
                pass


    def main():
        try:
            port = 8080
            server = HTTPServer(('', port), webServerHandler)
            print ("Web Server running on port", port)
            server.serve_forever()
        except KeyboardInterrupt:
            print (" ^C entered, stopping web server....")
            server.socket.close()

    if __name__ == '__main__':
        main()

Terminal Output:

Web Server running on port 8080
127.0.0.1 - - [28/Apr/2016 13:28:59] "GET /hello HTTP/1.1" 200 -
<html><body><h1>Hello!</h1><form method='POST'      enctype='multipart/form-data' action='/hello'><h2>What would you like me to say?</h2><input name="message" type="text" ><input type="submit" value="Submit"> </form></body></html>
127.0.0.1 - - [28/Apr/2016 13:29:09] "POST /hello HTTP/1.1" 201 -
Sent response
Sent headers
Ended header

As you can see, the POST function does not seem to go beyong the parse_header command. I cannot figure this out, and any help would be usefu!


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 04:43:05 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 01:43:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dictionary is really not easy to handle
In-Reply-To: <8d6491e6-c266-49e9-bc47-c5e957d233ad@googlegroups.com>
References: <8d6491e6-c266-49e9-bc47-c5e957d233ad@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <71dba1fb-d69c-4d79-888d-7356acd7ce32@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 28, 2016 at 1:57:40 PM UTC+5:30, jf... at ms4.hinet.net wrote:
> I have a dictionary like this:
> 
> >>> dct ={1: 'D', 5: 'A', 2: 'B', 3: 'B', 4: 'E'}
> 
> The following code works:
> 
> >>> for k in dct: print(k, dct[k])
> ...
> 1 D
> 2 B
> 3 B
> 4 E
> 5 A
> 
> and this one too:
> 
> >>> for k,v in dct.items(): print(k,v)
> ...
> 1 D
> 2 B
> 3 B
> 4 E
> 5 A
> 
> But...this one?
> 
> >>> for k,v in dct: print(k,v)
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> TypeError: 'int' object is not iterable
> 
> No idea what the error message means:-( Can anyone explain it? Thanks ahead.

Yes thats an unkind error message
Wont try to explain it.
But lets remove it instead:

>>> dct ={(1,2): 'D', (4,5): 'A'}
>>> 
>>> for k,v in dct:
...   print (k,v)
... 
1 2
4 5
>>> 


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr 28 05:17:23 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:17:23 +0200
Subject: Dictionary is really not easy to handle
References: <8d6491e6-c266-49e9-bc47-c5e957d233ad@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nfskf5$tdg$1@ger.gmane.org>

jfong at ms4.hinet.net wrote:

> I have a dictionary like this:
> 
>>>> dct ={1: 'D', 5: 'A', 2: 'B', 3: 'B', 4: 'E'}
> 
> The following code works:

> But...this one?
> 
>>>> for k,v in dct: print(k,v)
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> TypeError: 'int' object is not iterable
> 
> No idea what the error message means:-( Can anyone explain it? Thanks
> ahead.

for k, v in items: ...

is basically a shortcut for

for x in items:
    k, v = x


The assignment with multiple names on the left side triggers what is called 
"unpacking", i. e.

k, v = x

is basically a shortcut for

it = iter(x)
try:
    k = next(it)
    v = next(it)
except StopIteration:
    raise ValueError # not enough items
try:
   next(it) # too many item if this succeeds
except StopIteration:
   pass
else
   raise ValueError

Now remember that in

for x in dct: ...

x is actually the key and only the key -- an int in your example dict. 
Then

iter(x)

raises the exception you saw:

>>> iter(42)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: 'int' object is not iterable

If x were (for example) a string this would succeed

it = iter("some string")

as you can iterate over the string's characters -- but you'd get a 
ValueError for string lengths != 2:

>>> k, v = ""
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ValueError: need more than 0 values to unpack
>>> k, v = "ab"
>>> k
'a'
>>> v
'b'
>>> k, v = "abc"
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ValueError: too many values to unpack (expected 2)

With that information, can you predict what

for k, v in {(1, 2): "three"}: print(k, v)

will print?




From g.v.aarthi at skct.edu.in  Thu Apr 28 05:34:13 2016
From: g.v.aarthi at skct.edu.in (g.v.aarthi at skct.edu.in)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 02:34:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: for loop in python
Message-ID: <8d628aaf-69cd-499e-b4b6-c5ba806cfcdb@googlegroups.com>

start_list = [5, 3, 1, 2, 4]
square_list = []

# Your code here!
for square_list in start_list:
   x = pow(start_list, 2)
   square_list.append(x)
   square_list.sort()
print square_list

TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for ** or pow(): 'list' and 'int'
Please provide me the solution for the above problem


From steve at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 28 05:48:37 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 19:48:37 +1000
Subject: for loop in python
References: <8d628aaf-69cd-499e-b4b6-c5ba806cfcdb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5721dc77$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 07:34 pm, g.v.aarthi at skct.edu.in wrote:

> start_list = [5, 3, 1, 2, 4]
> square_list = []

Here you set square_list to a list.

> # Your code here!
> for square_list in start_list:
.....^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Here you set square_list to each item of the start_list. So the first time
around the loop, you have:

    square_list = 5

The second time:

    square_list = 3

The third time:

    square_list = 1

and so on. Except that the next line:

>    x = pow(start_list, 2)

tries to raise *start_list* to the power of 2:

[5, 3, 1, 2, 4]**2

which will raise an exception:

> TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for ** or pow(): 'list' and 'int'



So you need to do this:


start_list = [5, 3, 1, 2, 4]
square_list = []

# Your code here!
for ????? in start_list:

Choose a different name! Not one you have already used. Something
like "value" or "x" or "the_number_we_want_to_square".

   x = pow(?????, 2)
   square_list.append(x)


And you only need to sort the square list once, at the end, *outside* of the
for-loop, not inside it. (No need to indent the sort line.)




-- 
Steven



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr 28 05:54:19 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:54:19 +0200
Subject: for loop in python
References: <8d628aaf-69cd-499e-b4b6-c5ba806cfcdb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nfsmkc$1s0$1@ger.gmane.org>

g.v.aarthi at skct.edu.in wrote:

> start_list = [5, 3, 1, 2, 4]
> square_list = []
> 
> # Your code here!
> for square_list in start_list:

You are iterating over start_list, that's OK. But you are assigning the 
current value to square_list, a variable name that you already use for the 
list where you put result of your calculations. Pick another name.

>    x = pow(start_list, 2)

Look at the line above once more: did you really want the square of the 
complete start_list or only one item?

>    square_list.append(x)
>    square_list.sort()
> print square_list
> 
> TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for ** or pow(): 'list' and 'int'
> Please provide me the solution for the above problem




From steve at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 28 06:00:52 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 20:00:52 +1000
Subject: Dictionary is really not easy to handle
References: <8d6491e6-c266-49e9-bc47-c5e957d233ad@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5721df56$0$1608$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 06:27 pm, jfong at ms4.hinet.net wrote:

> I have a dictionary like this:
> 
>>>> dct ={1: 'D', 5: 'A', 2: 'B', 3: 'B', 4: 'E'}
> 
> The following code works:
> 
>>>> for k in dct: print(k, dct[k])
> ...
> 1 D
> 2 B
> 3 B
> 4 E
> 5 A

When you iterate over the dictionary, you get a single object each time, the
key. So you have:

    k = 1
    k = 2

etc. (It is a coincidence that they are in numeric order. That won't happen
for all dicts, in all versions of Python. Normally they are in arbitrary
order.)



> and this one too:
> 
>>>> for k,v in dct.items(): print(k,v)
> ...
> 1 D
> 2 B
> 3 B
> 4 E
> 5 A

When you iterate over the dictionary items, you get a *pair* of objects,
namely the key and the value in a tuple. So each time through the loop, you
have something like:

    k, v = (1, 'D') # a tuple with two items

which is equivalent to:

    k = 1  # first item
    v = 'D'  # second item


> But...this one?
> 
>>>> for k,v in dct: print(k,v)
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> TypeError: 'int' object is not iterable
> 
> No idea what the error message means:-( Can anyone explain it? Thanks
> ahead.

Remember that iterating over the dictionary gives you the keys alone. In
this case, the keys are *integers*, not strings or lists or tuples. So you
are asking Python to do this:

    k, v = 1

which you remember is equivalent to this:

    k = ???  # first item of int 1
    v = ???  # second item of int 1


What goes into the ??? on each line? You cannot split 1 into two items,
because it is not an iterable sequence (not a string, not a list, not a
tuple). What you are asking Python to do makes no sense, so it gives a
TypeError.


-- 
Steven



From bc at freeuk.com  Thu Apr 28 06:04:51 2016
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:04:51 +0100
Subject: for loop in python
In-Reply-To: <8d628aaf-69cd-499e-b4b6-c5ba806cfcdb@googlegroups.com>
References: <8d628aaf-69cd-499e-b4b6-c5ba806cfcdb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nfsn1r$r6t$1@dont-email.me>

On 28/04/2016 10:34, g.v.aarthi at skct.edu.in wrote:
> start_list = [5, 3, 1, 2, 4]
> square_list = []
>
> # Your code here!
> for square_list in start_list:
>    x = pow(start_list, 2)
>    square_list.append(x)
>    square_list.sort()
> print square_list
>
> TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for ** or pow(): 'list' and 'int'
> Please provide me the solution for the above problem

Try:

start_list = [5, 3, 1, 2, 4]
square_list = []

# Your code here!
for i in start_list:
    x = pow(i, 2)
    square_list.append(x)
square_list.sort()
print (square_list)





From jfong at ms4.hinet.net  Thu Apr 28 07:14:23 2016
From: jfong at ms4.hinet.net (jfong at ms4.hinet.net)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 04:14:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dictionary is really not easy to handle
In-Reply-To: <8d6491e6-c266-49e9-bc47-c5e957d233ad@googlegroups.com>
References: <8d6491e6-c266-49e9-bc47-c5e957d233ad@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <eb7f22e5-fc9f-4a8a-bb72-7f2b62f0813f@googlegroups.com>

I was overwhelmed that three gurus inspire me in three different ways in their own flavour:-) That's really appreciated! Now I understand why it's so, thanks to all of you.

To Peter:
> With that information, can you predict what

> for k, v in {(1, 2): "three"}: print(k, v)

> will print? 

It's 1 2.

(Although Rustom had given the answer in his reply, I didn't figure out until after reading you and Steven's answers:-)


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Apr 28 07:16:17 2016
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 12:16:17 +0100
Subject: Pythonic style
In-Reply-To: <c7ca7770-7dfa-463c-b776-cab472d9f79e@googlegroups.com>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
 <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <572166FA.3020108@icloud.com> <85y47yjxj5.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <57217E73.9040907@icloud.com> <572188F8.7010304@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmrkELf4rb+1UgmPwHxmd+wzp6WLxxN+ut4L3xJuHhmqmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.168.1461815768.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <c7ca7770-7dfa-463c-b776-cab472d9f79e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <540fc958-52d6-6049-75f2-5ee42657688e@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-28 06:16, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Thursday, April 28, 2016 at 9:26:21 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> My rule of thumb is: Dunders are for defining, not for calling. It's
>> not a hard-and-fast rule, but it'll get you through 99%+ of
>> situations.
>
> Neat and clever.
> Should get in the docs somewhere
>
Is it worthy of being in the Zen of Python?



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 07:45:41 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 04:45:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dunder docs again (was Pythonic style)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.183.1461842191.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
 <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <572166FA.3020108@icloud.com> <85y47yjxj5.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <57217E73.9040907@icloud.com> <572188F8.7010304@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmrkELf4rb+1UgmPwHxmd+wzp6WLxxN+ut4L3xJuHhmqmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.168.1461815768.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <c7ca7770-7dfa-463c-b776-cab472d9f79e@googlegroups.com>
 <540fc958-52d6-6049-75f2-5ee42657688e@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.183.1461842191.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e74de2de-1e5a-448d-9c5c-3852c8a7607a@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 28, 2016 at 4:46:43 PM UTC+5:30, MRAB wrote:
> On 2016-04-28 06:16, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 28, 2016 at 9:26:21 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> >> My rule of thumb is: Dunders are for defining, not for calling. It's
> >> not a hard-and-fast rule, but it'll get you through 99%+ of
> >> situations.
> >
> > Neat and clever.
> > Should get in the docs somewhere
> >
> Is it worthy of being in the Zen of Python?

:-)
Thats more than I intended... But heck why not?!
I find that dunder methods are poorly documented, especially when compared to
their 'pythonic-ness'.
Ive spoken of this on and off, eg https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2015-May/691329.html


From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 08:02:06 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 05:02:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Controlling the passing of data
Message-ID: <afa1ab1d-6d6a-421c-9351-c8805cc5fbea@googlegroups.com>

Hi

This file contains my biggest roadblock with programming and that's the abstract nature of needing to pass data from one thing to the next.

In my file here I needed to traverse and modify the XML file I don't want to restore it or put it in a new variable or other format I just want to alter it and let it flow onto the list comprehensions as they were.

Once I can get on top of this mentally I will be able to do so much better, I think I am trying to manage it in my head as if it was water and plumbing. 

In particular here I am taking the id from race and putting it into the children of each race called nomination. 

I have put a comment above the new code which is causing the difficulty.

from pyquery import PyQuery as pq
import pandas as pd
import argparse
import numpy as np

# from glob import glob


parser = argparse.ArgumentParser(description=None)


def GetArgs(parser):
    """Parser function using argparse"""
    # parser.add_argument('directory', help='directory use',
    #                     action='store', nargs='*')
    parser.add_argument("files", nargs="+")
    return parser.parse_args()

fileList = GetArgs(parser)
# print(fileList.files)


data = []


horseattrs = ('race_id', 'id', 'horse', 'number', 'finished', 'age', 'sex',
              'blinkers', 'trainernumber', 'career', 'thistrack', 'firstup',
              'secondup', 'variedweight', 'weight', 'pricestarting')
meetattrs = ('id', 'venue', 'date', 'rail', 'weather', 'trackcondition')
raceattrs = ('id', 'number', 'shortname', 'stage', 'distance',
             'grade', 'age', 'weightcondition', 'fastesttime', 'sectionaltime')
clubattrs = ('code')

frames = pd.DataFrame([])
noms = []
for items in fileList.files:
    d = pq(filename=items)
    meet = d('meeting')
    club = d('club')
    race = d('race')
    res = d('nomination')

    # d('p').filter(lambda i: i == 1)

    # Here i need to traverse and modify but I don't want to restore the
    # structure just pass it on. So I can use it in the following list
    # comprehensions as I had before.

    for race_el in d('race'):
        race = pq(race_el)
        race_id = race.attr('id')

    for nom_el in race.items('nomination'):
        res.append((pq(nom_el).attr('raceid', race_id)))

    resdata = [[res.eq(i).attr(x)
                for x in horseattrs] for i in range(len(res))]
    # print(dataSets)

    meetdata = [[meet.eq(i).attr(x)
                 for x in meetattrs] for i in range(len(meet))]
    racedata = [[race.eq(i).attr(x)
                 for x in raceattrs] for i in range(len(race))]
    clubdata = [[club.eq(i).attr(x)
                 for x in clubattrs] for i in range(len(club))]
    raceid = [row[0] for row in racedata]

# L = [x + [0] for x in L]
# print(resdata)
# resdata = [raceid[i] for i in raceid  x + i for x in resdata]

# for number of classes equalling nomination in the each category of
# race inset raceid into resdata
#
# print(resdata)
# clubdf = pd.DataFrame(clubdata)
# meetdf = pd.DataFrame(meetdata)
# racedf = pd.DataFrame(racedata)
# resdf = pd.DataFrame(resdata)
# frames = frames.append(clubdf)
# frames = frames.append(meetdf)
#
# frames = frames.append(racedf)
# frames = frames.append(resdf)

# print(frames)
# frames.to_csv('~/testingFrame5.csv', encoding='utf-8')

Thanks

Sayth


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Apr 28 08:02:51 2016
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:02:51 +0100
Subject: Dunder docs again (was Pythonic style)
In-Reply-To: <e74de2de-1e5a-448d-9c5c-3852c8a7607a@googlegroups.com>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
 <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <572166FA.3020108@icloud.com> <85y47yjxj5.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <57217E73.9040907@icloud.com> <572188F8.7010304@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmrkELf4rb+1UgmPwHxmd+wzp6WLxxN+ut4L3xJuHhmqmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.168.1461815768.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <c7ca7770-7dfa-463c-b776-cab472d9f79e@googlegroups.com>
 <540fc958-52d6-6049-75f2-5ee42657688e@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.183.1461842191.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <e74de2de-1e5a-448d-9c5c-3852c8a7607a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <bdb727b6-9363-a9cf-9c9e-5581533ac9cb@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-28 12:45, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Thursday, April 28, 2016 at 4:46:43 PM UTC+5:30, MRAB wrote:
>> On 2016-04-28 06:16, Rustom Mody wrote:
>> > On Thursday, April 28, 2016 at 9:26:21 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> >> My rule of thumb is: Dunders are for defining, not for calling. It's
>> >> not a hard-and-fast rule, but it'll get you through 99%+ of
>> >> situations.
>> >
>> > Neat and clever.
>> > Should get in the docs somewhere
>> >
>> Is it worthy of being in the Zen of Python?
>
> :-)
> Thats more than I intended... But heck why not?!
> I find that dunder methods are poorly documented, especially when compared to
> their 'pythonic-ness'.
> Ive spoken of this on and off, eg https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2015-May/691329.html
>
'pythonic-ness'? Surely it's 'pythonicity'! :-)


From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Apr 28 08:25:32 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 15:25:32 +0300
Subject: Dunder docs again (was Pythonic style)
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
 <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <572166FA.3020108@icloud.com> <85y47yjxj5.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <57217E73.9040907@icloud.com> <572188F8.7010304@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmrkELf4rb+1UgmPwHxmd+wzp6WLxxN+ut4L3xJuHhmqmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.168.1461815768.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <c7ca7770-7dfa-463c-b776-cab472d9f79e@googlegroups.com>
 <540fc958-52d6-6049-75f2-5ee42657688e@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.183.1461842191.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <e74de2de-1e5a-448d-9c5c-3852c8a7607a@googlegroups.com>
 <bdb727b6-9363-a9cf-9c9e-5581533ac9cb@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.184.1461844978.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87h9elor7n.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com>:

> 'pythonic-ness'? Surely it's 'pythonicity'! :-)

Doubt it:

  Full Definition of generic
  [...]

  ?generically \-i-k(?-)l?\ adverb
  ?genericness noun

  <URL: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/generic>


Marko


From a24061 at ducksburg.com  Thu Apr 28 08:57:44 2016
From: a24061 at ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:57:44 +0100
Subject: Why does pathlib not have is_readable() & things like that?
References: <6474vcx0q6.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
 <571f8d53$0$1608$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <8vd9vcxf2a.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>

On 2016-04-26, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:30 pm, Adam Funk wrote:

>> I've been improvising with things like this:
>> 
>> import pathlib, os
>> 
>> path = pathlib.Path('some/directory')
>> writable = os.access(str(path), os.W_OK | os.X_OK)
>> 
>> Is that the best way to do it?
>
> No. All you have learned is that the directory is writable *now*. In a
> millisecond, or a minute, when you actually go to write to it, it may no
> longer be writable -- it may not even exist.
>
> There is a whole class of serious security vulnerabilities and bugs caused
> by the difference between the time you check something and the time you
> actually use it. "Time of check to time of use" bugs can be best avoided by
> not checking ahead of time whether the directory is writable, but just
> *attempting to write to it*, and catching the error if you can't.

I appreciate the general principle, but the situation here is a tool
that iterates over a loop of the following: GET some chunks of data
from a REST service, process them, PUT something back to existing
documents through the REST service, & save the result in a directory
specified as a command-line option.  I don't want the tool to modify
the first batch of data in the REST service, be unable to store the
results locally, & crash as a result.


-- 
A mathematical formula should never be "owned" by anybody! Mathematics
belongs to God.                                       --- Donald Knuth


From a24061 at ducksburg.com  Thu Apr 28 09:02:51 2016
From: a24061 at ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 14:02:51 +0100
Subject: Why does pathlib not have is_readable() & things like that?
References: <6474vcx0q6.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
 <1461679044.2467938.590028273.4DEA02AA@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.106.1461679046.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <r8e9vcxf2a.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>

On 2016-04-26, Random832 wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016, at 09:30, Adam Funk wrote:
>> I recently discovered pathlib in the Python 3 standard library, & find
>> it very useful, but I'm a bit surprised that it doesn't offer things
>> like is_readable() and is_writable.  Is there a good reason for that?
>
> Well, one reason would be EAFP. Just try to open the file and see if it
> gives you a PermissionError.

I understand that in general, but the tool I'm working on here takes a
command-line option to specify an output directory, & I'd rather not
start processing the data (which involves GETting from a REST service,
processing, and PUTting back modifications to the data) only to crash
after the first batch because of a user error.


-- 
Specifications are for the weak & timid!
          --- Klingon Programmer's Guide


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Apr 28 09:22:45 2016
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 14:22:45 +0100
Subject: Dunder docs again (was Pythonic style)
In-Reply-To: <87h9elor7n.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
 <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <572166FA.3020108@icloud.com> <85y47yjxj5.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <57217E73.9040907@icloud.com> <572188F8.7010304@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmrkELf4rb+1UgmPwHxmd+wzp6WLxxN+ut4L3xJuHhmqmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.168.1461815768.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <c7ca7770-7dfa-463c-b776-cab472d9f79e@googlegroups.com>
 <540fc958-52d6-6049-75f2-5ee42657688e@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.183.1461842191.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <e74de2de-1e5a-448d-9c5c-3852c8a7607a@googlegroups.com>
 <bdb727b6-9363-a9cf-9c9e-5581533ac9cb@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.184.1461844978.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9elor7n.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <c9c82522-b570-3120-f740-51b32b3277eb@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-28 13:25, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com>:
>
>> 'pythonic-ness'? Surely it's 'pythonicity'! :-)
>
> Doubt it:
>
>   Full Definition of generic
>   [...]
>
>   ?generically \-i-k(?-)l?\ adverb
>   ?genericness noun
>
>   <URL: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/generic>
>
I can point you to 3 alternatives, from oldest to newest:

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/genericalness
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/genericness
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/genericity



From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Thu Apr 28 09:24:36 2016
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 16:24:36 +0300
Subject: Why does pathlib not have is_readable() & things like that?
References: <6474vcx0q6.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
 <1461679044.2467938.590028273.4DEA02AA@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.106.1461679046.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <r8e9vcxf2a.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
Message-ID: <lf560v1j27f.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Adam Funk writes:

> On 2016-04-26, Random832 wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016, at 09:30, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> I recently discovered pathlib in the Python 3 standard library, & find
>>> it very useful, but I'm a bit surprised that it doesn't offer things
>>> like is_readable() and is_writable.  Is there a good reason for that?
>>
>> Well, one reason would be EAFP. Just try to open the file and see if it
>> gives you a PermissionError.
>
> I understand that in general, but the tool I'm working on here takes a
> command-line option to specify an output directory, & I'd rather not
> start processing the data (which involves GETting from a REST service,
> processing, and PUTting back modifications to the data) only to crash
> after the first batch because of a user error.

Open an output file first. Crash before reading the first batch.


From random832 at fastmail.com  Thu Apr 28 09:31:58 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 09:31:58 -0400
Subject: Pythonic style
In-Reply-To: <c7ca7770-7dfa-463c-b776-cab472d9f79e@googlegroups.com>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
 <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <572166FA.3020108@icloud.com> <85y47yjxj5.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <57217E73.9040907@icloud.com> <572188F8.7010304@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmrkELf4rb+1UgmPwHxmd+wzp6WLxxN+ut4L3xJuHhmqmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.168.1461815768.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <c7ca7770-7dfa-463c-b776-cab472d9f79e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1461850318.3155238.592303449.6271E6A3@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016, at 01:16, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Thursday, April 28, 2016 at 9:26:21 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > My rule of thumb is: Dunders are for defining, not for calling. It's
> > not a hard-and-fast rule, but it'll get you through 99%+ of
> > situations.
> 
> Neat and clever.
> Should get in the docs somewhere

And even most of the obvious cases where you would want to call one
[e.g. on super] are in the course of implementing one.


From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 09:34:31 2016
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:34:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why does pathlib not have is_readable() & things like that?
References: <6474vcx0q6.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
 <1461679044.2467938.590028273.4DEA02AA@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.106.1461679046.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <r8e9vcxf2a.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
Message-ID: <nft3h7$pbt$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2016-04-28, Adam Funk <a24061 at ducksburg.com> wrote:
> On 2016-04-26, Random832 wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016, at 09:30, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> I recently discovered pathlib in the Python 3 standard library, & find
>>> it very useful, but I'm a bit surprised that it doesn't offer things
>>> like is_readable() and is_writable.  Is there a good reason for that?
>>
>> Well, one reason would be EAFP. Just try to open the file and see if it
>> gives you a PermissionError.
>
> I understand that in general, but the tool I'm working on here takes a
> command-line option to specify an output directory, & I'd rather not
> start processing the data (which involves GETting from a REST service,
> processing, and PUTting back modifications to the data) only to crash
> after the first batch because of a user error.

Then open the output file before you do the GET.

Or just do os.access("directory/where/you/want/to/open/a/file",os.W_OK)

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Jesus is my POSTMASTER
                                  at               GENERAL ...
                              gmail.com            



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr 28 09:40:23 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 15:40:23 +0200
Subject: Controlling the passing of data
References: <afa1ab1d-6d6a-421c-9351-c8805cc5fbea@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nft3s8$3ku$1@ger.gmane.org>

Sayth Renshaw wrote:

> In my file here I needed to traverse and modify the XML file I don't want
> to restore it or put it in a new variable or other format I just want to
> alter it and let it flow onto the list comprehensions as they were.

That looks like an arbitrary limitation to me. It's a bit like
"I want to repair my car with this big hammer".

> In particular here I am taking the id from race and putting it into the
> children of each race called nomination.
> 
> I have put a comment above the new code which is causing the difficulty.

Your actual problem is drowned in too much source code. Can you restate it 
in English, optionally with a few small snippets of Python? 

It is not even clear what the code you provide should accomplish once it's 
running as desired.

To give at least one code-related advice: You have a few repetitions of the 
following structure

> meetattrs = ('id', 'venue', 'date', 'rail', 'weather', 'trackcondition')

>     meet = d('meeting')

>     meetdata = [[meet.eq(i).attr(x)
>                  for x in meetattrs] for i in range(len(meet))]

You should move the pieces into a function that works for meetings, clubs, 
races, and so on. Finally (If I am repeating myself so be it): the occurence 
of range(len(something)) in your code is a strong indication that you are 
not using Python the way Guido intended it. Iterate over the `something` 
directly whenever possible.



From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 09:59:47 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 06:59:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Controlling the passing of data
In-Reply-To: <mailman.189.1461850832.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <afa1ab1d-6d6a-421c-9351-c8805cc5fbea@googlegroups.com>
 <nft3s8$3ku$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.189.1461850832.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cf68e844-441c-4498-a730-0c7b08da1ee9@googlegroups.com>


> 
> Your actual problem is drowned in too much source code. Can you restate it 
> in English, optionally with a few small snippets of Python? 
> 
> It is not even clear what the code you provide should accomplish once it's 
> running as desired.
> 
> To give at least one code-related advice: You have a few repetitions of the 
> following structure
> 
> > meetattrs = ('id', 'venue', 'date', 'rail', 'weather', 'trackcondition')
> 
> >     meet = d('meeting')
> 
> >     meetdata = [[meet.eq(i).attr(x)
> >                  for x in meetattrs] for i in range(len(meet))]
> 
> You should move the pieces into a function that works for meetings, clubs, 
> races, and so on. Finally (If I am repeating myself so be it): the occurence 
> of range(len(something)) in your code is a strong indication that you are 
> not using Python the way Guido intended it. Iterate over the `something` 
> directly whenever possible.

Hi Peter

> meetattrs = ('id', 'venue', 'date', 'rail', 'weather', 'trackcondition')

is created to define a list of attr in the XML rather than referencing each attr individually I create a list and pass it into 

 >     meetdata = [[meet.eq(i).attr(x)
> >                  for x in meetattrs] for i in range(len(meet))]

This list comprehension reads the XML attr by attr using meet = d('meeting') as the call to pyquery to locate the class in the XML and identify the attr's.

I do apologise for the lack of output, I asked a question about parsing that I always seem to get wrong over think and then find the solution simpler than I thought.

The output is 4 tables of the class and selected attributes eg meetattrs = ('id', 'venue', 'date', 'rail', 'weather', 'trackcondition') from the meeting class of the XML.

In order to give flexibility and keep the relational nature they have defined in the table I found when exporting the nominations section via pandas to csv that i had no way to determine which id belonged to each race that is there was no race_id in the nominations to relate back to the race, and also no meeting id in the raceid to relate it back to the meeting.


So I wanted to traverse all the classes Meeting, Race and Nomination and insert the id of the class into its direct children only and since there were many races a meeting and many nomnations a race I need to ensure that it is the direct children only.

It was otherwise working as parsed output in code supplied using to push to pandas and use its csv write capability.

So I inserted

    for race_el in d('race'):
        race = pq(race_el)
        race_id = race.attr('id')

    for nom_el in race.items('nomination'):
        res.append((pq(nom_el).attr('raceid', race_id)))

which traverses and inserts the race_id into the child nominations. However, my boggles is how to pass this to the list comprehension that was working without changing the data from XML or creating another intermediate step and variable. Just to parse it as it was but with the extra included race_id.


Thanks

Sayth


From ldompeling at casema.nl  Thu Apr 28 10:15:04 2016
From: ldompeling at casema.nl (ldompeling at casema.nl)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 07:15:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: online python courses
Message-ID: <8f5cc7b6-dce5-4bec-b734-0453a57cec2e@googlegroups.com>

I am follows on this moment two online pythoncourses from code.tutsplus.com
But I am interested in following more online pythoncourses.
Maby someone have some links to websites for me what handles python online courses.

thanks 


From D.Strohl at F5.com  Thu Apr 28 10:40:01 2016
From: D.Strohl at F5.com (Dan Strohl)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 14:40:01 +0000
Subject: Controlling the passing of data
In-Reply-To: <nft3s8$3ku$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <afa1ab1d-6d6a-421c-9351-c8805cc5fbea@googlegroups.com>
 <nft3s8$3ku$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4a16db24a11c4231b3d006bcca10f502@seaexchmbx03.olympus.F5Net.com>

In addition to Peter's points, 
- I would suggest breaking out the list comprehensions into standard for loops and/or functions.  That makes it easier to read and troubleshoot.  (you can always re-optimize It if needed.)
- Peter's point about making things into functions will also help troubleshooting.  You can better test the data going into and out of the function.  In my code, I will often have the file access and data processing as separate functions, then the main routine just calls the function to get data, passes that data to a function that manipulates it, and then pass the results to a function that writes it out.  This allows for much easier testing and troubleshooting of the individual functions.  (sometimes I will reassemble them into one function when I am done, depending on my needs)

More importantly though in terms of your getting help for your problem, the post is unclear (to me at least) in terms of what you are trying to achieve and what isn't working, 

Try considering the following suggestions:

- It is unclear what the problem is that you are having, you say you are trying to do x, and you are having problems in a part after a comment, but none of the comments say "this is breaking".  I assume you are talking about the comment that starts "Here I need to traverse", but don't know for sure, and even if it is, you don't specify what the problem actually is;  are you receiving an exception message (please let us know what it is), is it running, but not doing anything?  is it returning incorrect data? or???

- When posting, rather than commenting out code that you aren't using right now, and code that is working and not related to the problem, I recommend just deleting them so that people don't have to try to work through it.... for example, just remove the GetArgs function and just say fileList = "/xml_dir", and the section at the end that is all commented out, just remove it.  You should just have the minimum needed to replicate the problem.  

This will also help in troubleshooting, when I have a problem like this, and I can't figure out what is going on, I will copy the code to a new file and make a program that will handle a specific set of data, and try to do the one thing that is breaking, removing all the rest of the stuff, and test the results.. so, for example, copy a sample of the xml with a couple of data items into a string var, and have a program that processes that and checks to see if at the end you end up with a list of the right values by printing a list rather than muddying the waters with file access, and writing out csv's.  (by the way, this is a great time to start working with unit testing if you aren't already, it is simple to create this as a test case and you will find that if you start doing testing along the way, the time it takes to troubleshoot errors along the way will go down dramatically.)

- Be clear at the end what you expect to get, especially if it is not what you are getting... so, either in the code as a comment, or in a descriptive paragraph, have a section that said something like:  "At the end of the snippet, meetdata, racedata, clubdata, and raceid should be a list of dictionaries with the data from the xml" (or whatever... possibly with an example of what you would expect).  This is even more important if the problem you are having is that the code is not returning correct data.  This may not be as needed if the code is simply blowing up at line xx, though it would still help people understand your goal.

- For the example at least (you may choose to do differently in your live code), use nice explanatory variable names and don't rename imports, so it would be clearer to say "import pandas", then "frames = pandas.DataFrame[])".  That way the reader doesn't have to keep referring to the imports to figure out what is going on.

Remember, you are asking a large number of people for help, most of which are pretty busy already, so the more you can do to simplify and show the exact problem, the more (and more useful) help you are likely to receive.  To this lists credit, even if you are completely unclear in your question, you will likely get *something* back, (as you saw with Peters response), but what you get back is more likely to be a general suggestion rather than a specific fix for your problem.

Dan Strohl




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+d.strohl=f5.com at python.org]
> On Behalf Of Peter Otten
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 6:40 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: Controlling the passing of data
> 
> Sayth Renshaw wrote:
> 
> > In my file here I needed to traverse and modify the XML file I don't
> > want to restore it or put it in a new variable or other format I just
> > want to alter it and let it flow onto the list comprehensions as they were.
> 
> That looks like an arbitrary limitation to me. It's a bit like "I want to repair my
> car with this big hammer".
> 
> > In particular here I am taking the id from race and putting it into
> > the children of each race called nomination.
> >
> > I have put a comment above the new code which is causing the difficulty.
> 
> Your actual problem is drowned in too much source code. Can you restate it
> in English, optionally with a few small snippets of Python?
> 
> It is not even clear what the code you provide should accomplish once it's
> running as desired.
> 
> To give at least one code-related advice: You have a few repetitions of the
> following structure
> 
> > meetattrs = ('id', 'venue', 'date', 'rail', 'weather',
> > 'trackcondition')
> 
> >     meet = d('meeting')
> 
> >     meetdata = [[meet.eq(i).attr(x)
> >                  for x in meetattrs] for i in range(len(meet))]
> 
> You should move the pieces into a function that works for meetings, clubs,
> races, and so on. Finally (If I am repeating myself so be it): the occurence of
> range(len(something)) in your code is a strong indication that you are not
> using Python the way Guido intended it. Iterate over the `something` directly
> whenever possible.
> 
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 10:52:55 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 07:52:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Controlling the passing of data
In-Reply-To: <mailman.190.1461854474.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <afa1ab1d-6d6a-421c-9351-c8805cc5fbea@googlegroups.com>
 <nft3s8$3ku$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <4a16db24a11c4231b3d006bcca10f502@seaexchmbx03.olympus.F5Net.com>
 <mailman.190.1461854474.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e338bac6-d31b-468f-a115-d4f788f094f8@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 28, 2016 at 8:11:26 PM UTC+5:30, Dan Strohl wrote:
> In addition to Peter's points, 
> - I would suggest breaking out the list comprehensions into standard for loops and/or functions.  That makes it easier to read and troubleshoot.  (you can always re-optimize It if needed.)
> - Peter's point about making things into functions will also help troubleshooting.  You can better test the data going into and out of the function.  In my code, I will often have the file access and data processing as separate functions, then the main routine just calls the function to get data, passes that data to a function that manipulates it, and then pass the results to a function that writes it out.  This allows for much easier testing and troubleshooting of the individual functions.  (sometimes I will reassemble them into one function when I am done, depending on my needs)
> 
> More importantly though in terms of your getting help for your problem, the post is unclear (to me at least) in terms of what you are trying to achieve and what isn't working, 
> 
> Try considering the following suggestions:
> 
> - It is unclear what the problem is that you are having, you say you are trying to do x, and you are having problems in a part after a comment, but none of the comments say "this is breaking".  I assume you are talking about the comment that starts "Here I need to traverse", but don't know for sure, and even if it is, you don't specify what the problem actually is;  are you receiving an exception message (please let us know what it is), is it running, but not doing anything?  is it returning incorrect data? or???
> 
> - When posting, rather than commenting out code that you aren't using right now, and code that is working and not related to the problem, I recommend just deleting them so that people don't have to try to work through it.... for example, just remove the GetArgs function and just say fileList = "/xml_dir", and the section at the end that is all commented out, just remove it.  You should just have the minimum needed to replicate the problem.  
> 
> This will also help in troubleshooting, when I have a problem like this, and I can't figure out what is going on, I will copy the code to a new file and make a program that will handle a specific set of data, and try to do the one thing that is breaking, removing all the rest of the stuff, and test the results.. so, for example, copy a sample of the xml with a couple of data items into a string var, and have a program that processes that and checks to see if at the end you end up with a list of the right values by printing a list rather than muddying the waters with file access, and writing out csv's.  (by the way, this is a great time to start working with unit testing if you aren't already, it is simple to create this as a test case and you will find that if you start doing testing along the way, the time it takes to troubleshoot errors along the way will go down dramatically.)
> 
> - Be clear at the end what you expect to get, especially if it is not what you are getting... so, either in the code as a comment, or in a descriptive paragraph, have a section that said something like:  "At the end of the snippet, meetdata, racedata, clubdata, and raceid should be a list of dictionaries with the data from the xml" (or whatever... possibly with an example of what you would expect).  This is even more important if the problem you are having is that the code is not returning correct data.  This may not be as needed if the code is simply blowing up at line xx, though it would still help people understand your goal.
> 
> - For the example at least (you may choose to do differently in your live code), use nice explanatory variable names and don't rename imports, so it would be clearer to say "import pandas", then "frames = pandas.DataFrame[])".  That way the reader doesn't have to keep referring to the imports to figure out what is going on.
> 
> Remember, you are asking a large number of people for help, most of which are pretty busy already, so the more you can do to simplify and show the exact problem, the more (and more useful) help you are likely to receive.  To this lists credit, even if you are completely unclear in your question, you will likely get *something* back, (as you saw with Peters response), but what you get back is more likely to be a general suggestion rather than a specific fix for your problem.
> 
> Dan Strohl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > 
> > Sayth Renshaw wrote:
> > 
> > > In my file here I needed to traverse and modify the XML file I don't
> > > want to restore it or put it in a new variable or other format I just
> > > want to alter it and let it flow onto the list comprehensions as they were.
> > 
> > That looks like an arbitrary limitation to me. It's a bit like "I want to repair my
> > car with this big hammer".
> > 
> > > In particular here I am taking the id from race and putting it into
> > > the children of each race called nomination.
> > >
> > > I have put a comment above the new code which is causing the difficulty.
> > 
> > Your actual problem is drowned in too much source code. Can you restate it
> > in English, optionally with a few small snippets of Python?
> > 
> > It is not even clear what the code you provide should accomplish once it's
> > running as desired.
> > 
> > To give at least one code-related advice: You have a few repetitions of the
> > following structure
> > 
> > > meetattrs = ('id', 'venue', 'date', 'rail', 'weather',
> > > 'trackcondition')
> > 
> > >     meet = d('meeting')
> > 
> > >     meetdata = [[meet.eq(i).attr(x)
> > >                  for x in meetattrs] for i in range(len(meet))]
> > 
> > You should move the pieces into a function that works for meetings, clubs,
> > races, and so on. Finally (If I am repeating myself so be it): the occurence of
> > range(len(something)) in your code is a strong indication that you are not
> > using Python the way Guido intended it. Iterate over the `something` directly
> > whenever possible.
> > 
> > --
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

To add to that:
It is right to have a dislike for bad code and a desire for good code.
But this desire odes not translate into an effective communication. In particular:  I dont think anyone quite gets exactly you are after in:

> I don't want to restore it or put it in a new variable or other format I 
> just want to alter it and let it flow onto the list comprehensions as they were. 

So please cut down your example to 1/4 the size:
- Tiny inline triple-quoted xml
- Your attempt so far
- What you would like to do different


From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 10:57:11 2016
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 10:57:11 -0400
Subject: online python courses
In-Reply-To: <8f5cc7b6-dce5-4bec-b734-0453a57cec2e@googlegroups.com>
References: <8f5cc7b6-dce5-4bec-b734-0453a57cec2e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+xRCF9WoyLAgQSDD+Vz8Hm3uvSwxLq+Y+oq+tQKgFKtHA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 10:15 AM,  <ldompeling at casema.nl> wrote:
> I am follows on this moment two online pythoncourses from code.tutsplus.com
> But I am interested in following more online pythoncourses.
> Maby someone have some links to websites for me what handles python online courses.
>
> thanks
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Try here:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=python+online+courses#seen


-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays


From D.Strohl at F5.com  Thu Apr 28 11:04:01 2016
From: D.Strohl at F5.com (Dan Strohl)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 15:04:01 +0000
Subject: online python courses
In-Reply-To: <8f5cc7b6-dce5-4bec-b734-0453a57cec2e@googlegroups.com>
References: <8f5cc7b6-dce5-4bec-b734-0453a57cec2e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a8273b27144e45deb4730069046f0848@seaexchmbx03.olympus.F5Net.com>

I've heard good things about codeacademy.com and learnpython.org.  Also, I've heard that pycharm educational edition is helpful.  (https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm-edu/ )

I haven't personally tried any of these though, so your mileage may vary.

Good Luck!

Dan Strohl



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+d.strohl=f5.com at python.org]
> On Behalf Of ldompeling at casema.nl
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:15 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: online python courses
> 
> I am follows on this moment two online pythoncourses from
> code.tutsplus.com But I am interested in following more online
> pythoncourses.
> Maby someone have some links to websites for me what handles python
> online courses.
> 
> thanks
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From walters.justin01 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 11:04:07 2016
From: walters.justin01 at gmail.com (justin walters)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 08:04:07 -0700
Subject: online python courses
In-Reply-To: <CAPM-O+xRCF9WoyLAgQSDD+Vz8Hm3uvSwxLq+Y+oq+tQKgFKtHA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8f5cc7b6-dce5-4bec-b734-0453a57cec2e@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPM-O+xRCF9WoyLAgQSDD+Vz8Hm3uvSwxLq+Y+oq+tQKgFKtHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO1D73Hv=KaUb3KqHLwO5xuQ_d735rEX9HU_vxJ6RiSyQ=UONQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 7:57 AM, Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 10:15 AM,  <ldompeling at casema.nl> wrote:
> > I am follows on this moment two online pythoncourses from
> code.tutsplus.com
> > But I am interested in following more online pythoncourses.
> > Maby someone have some links to websites for me what handles python
> online courses.
> >
> > thanks
> > --
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> Try here:
>
> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=python+online+courses#seen
>
>
> --
> Joel Goldstick
> http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
> http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


SICP in Python: http://composingprograms.com/


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 11:13:24 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 08:13:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: online python courses
In-Reply-To: <8f5cc7b6-dce5-4bec-b734-0453a57cec2e@googlegroups.com>
References: <8f5cc7b6-dce5-4bec-b734-0453a57cec2e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fd905fc9-dedf-42e2-8401-62209148c099@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 28, 2016 at 7:45:22 PM UTC+5:30, ldomp... at casema.nl wrote:
> I am follows on this moment two online pythoncourses from code.tutsplus.com
> But I am interested in following more online pythoncourses.
> Maby someone have some links to websites for me what handles python online courses.
> 
> thanks

Start with this:
https://docs.python.org/3.5/tutorial/


From D.Strohl at F5.com  Thu Apr 28 11:19:09 2016
From: D.Strohl at F5.com (Dan Strohl)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 15:19:09 +0000
Subject: Controlling the passing of data
In-Reply-To: <cf68e844-441c-4498-a730-0c7b08da1ee9@googlegroups.com>
References: <afa1ab1d-6d6a-421c-9351-c8805cc5fbea@googlegroups.com>
 <nft3s8$3ku$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.189.1461850832.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <cf68e844-441c-4498-a730-0c7b08da1ee9@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5c94882cb24c441bad13fd122851bd38@seaexchmbx03.olympus.F5Net.com>

If I am reading this correctly... you have something like (you will have to excuse my lack of knowledge about what kinds of information these actually are):

<race id=1>
    <nomination>1234</nomination>
    <meeting>first</meeting>
</race>
<race id=2>
    <nomination>5678</nomination>
    <meeting>second</meeting>
</race>


And you want something like:
    nominations = [(1,1234), (2,5678)]
    meetings = [(1,'first'),(2,'second')]

if that is correct, my suggestion is to do something like (this is psudeo code, I didn't look up the exact calls to use):

nomination_list = []
meeting_list = []

for race_element in xml_file('race'):
    id = race_element.get_attr('id')
    for nomination_element in race_element('nomination'):
    	nomination = nomination_element.get_text()
               nomination_list.append((id, nomination))

    for meeting_element in race_element('meeting'):
    	meeting = meeting_element.get_text()
               meeting_list.append((id, meeting))




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+d.strohl=f5.com at python.org]
> On Behalf Of Sayth Renshaw
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:00 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: Controlling the passing of data
> 
> 
> >
> > Your actual problem is drowned in too much source code. Can you
> > restate it in English, optionally with a few small snippets of Python?
> >
> > It is not even clear what the code you provide should accomplish once
> > it's running as desired.
> >
> > To give at least one code-related advice: You have a few repetitions
> > of the following structure
> >
> > > meetattrs = ('id', 'venue', 'date', 'rail', 'weather',
> > > 'trackcondition')
> >
> > >     meet = d('meeting')
> >
> > >     meetdata = [[meet.eq(i).attr(x)
> > >                  for x in meetattrs] for i in range(len(meet))]
> >
> > You should move the pieces into a function that works for meetings,
> > clubs, races, and so on. Finally (If I am repeating myself so be it):
> > the occurence of range(len(something)) in your code is a strong
> > indication that you are not using Python the way Guido intended it.
> > Iterate over the `something` directly whenever possible.
> 
> Hi Peter
> 
> > meetattrs = ('id', 'venue', 'date', 'rail', 'weather',
> > 'trackcondition')
> 
> is created to define a list of attr in the XML rather than referencing each attr
> individually I create a list and pass it into
> 
>  >     meetdata = [[meet.eq(i).attr(x)
> > >                  for x in meetattrs] for i in range(len(meet))]
> 
> This list comprehension reads the XML attr by attr using meet = d('meeting')
> as the call to pyquery to locate the class in the XML and identify the attr's.
> 
> I do apologise for the lack of output, I asked a question about parsing that I
> always seem to get wrong over think and then find the solution simpler than
> I thought.
> 
> The output is 4 tables of the class and selected attributes eg meetattrs = ('id',
> 'venue', 'date', 'rail', 'weather', 'trackcondition') from the meeting class of the
> XML.
> 
> In order to give flexibility and keep the relational nature they have defined in
> the table I found when exporting the nominations section via pandas to csv
> that i had no way to determine which id belonged to each race that is there
> was no race_id in the nominations to relate back to the race, and also no
> meeting id in the raceid to relate it back to the meeting.
> 
> 
> So I wanted to traverse all the classes Meeting, Race and Nomination and
> insert the id of the class into its direct children only and since there were
> many races a meeting and many nomnations a race I need to ensure that it is
> the direct children only.
> 
> It was otherwise working as parsed output in code supplied using to push to
> pandas and use its csv write capability.
> 
> So I inserted
> 
>     for race_el in d('race'):
>         race = pq(race_el)
>         race_id = race.attr('id')
> 
>     for nom_el in race.items('nomination'):
>         res.append((pq(nom_el).attr('raceid', race_id)))
> 
> which traverses and inserts the race_id into the child nominations. However,
> my boggles is how to pass this to the list comprehension that was working
> without changing the data from XML or creating another intermediate step
> and variable. Just to parse it as it was but with the extra included race_id.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Sayth
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From lijin.abc at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 12:23:44 2016
From: lijin.abc at gmail.com (Jin Li)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 09:23:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to get the closure environment in Python?
Message-ID: <9ac71307-b9eb-4cfd-a5c9-31c2144f0b43@googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

I want to get the closure environment in Python. As in the following example:

def func1():
        x = 10
        def func2():
                return 0

        return func2

f=func1()
print f()


How could I get the variable `x` in the environment of `func2()`? i.e. `f()`.

Best regards,
Jin


From steve at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 28 12:33:56 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 02:33:56 +1000
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
Message-ID: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

I have an application written in Python which accepts -h or --help to show
help. I can:

(1) print the help text to stdout;

(2) run the help text through a pager;

(3) do something else?


Many command line tools simply output help to stdout (or stderr, if they're
evil), which makes it easy to redirect the help to a file, pass it to grep,
etc. For example:

[steve at ando ~]$ wget --help | wc -l
136

Other tools automatically launch a pager, e.g. man. (Admittedly, man --help
does not use a pager.) The Python help system, pydoc, does the same.

I was thinking that my application could use pydoc:

def do_help():
    import pydoc
    pydoc.pager(HELPTEXT)

or just print the help text:

def do_help():
    # Do I really need to show this???
    print(HELPTEXT)


but I was thinking of doing both: give my application a subcommand or an
option to display help directly in a pager, while -h and --help print to
stdout as normal.

What do you think? Too clever?



-- 
Steven



From rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid  Thu Apr 28 12:42:02 2016
From: rgaddi at highlandtechnology.invalid (Rob Gaddi)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 16:42:02 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to get the closure environment in Python?
References: <9ac71307-b9eb-4cfd-a5c9-31c2144f0b43@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nftegp$kuq$1@dont-email.me>

Jin Li wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I want to get the closure environment in Python. As in the following example:
>
> def func1():
>         x = 10
>         def func2():
>                 return 0
>
>         return func2
>
> f=func1()
> print f()
>
>
> How could I get the variable `x` in the environment of `func2()`? i.e. `f()`.
>
> Best regards,
> Jin

By using class instances instead of closures.

class Foo:
  def __init__(self, x):
    self.x == x

  def __call__(self):
    return 0

def func1():
  return Foo(10)

-- 
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com
Email address domain is currently out of order.  See above to fix.


From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Thu Apr 28 12:45:09 2016
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 16:45:09 GMT
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <p6rUy.23471$Sk5.1393@fx45.am4>

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 02:33:56 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> I have an application written in Python which accepts -h or --help to
> show help. I can:
> 
> (1) print the help text to stdout;
> 
> (2) run the help text through a pager;
> 
> (3) do something else?
> 
> 
> Many command line tools simply output help to stdout (or stderr, if
> they're evil), which makes it easy to redirect the help to a file, pass
> it to grep,
> etc. For example:
> 
> [steve at ando ~]$ wget --help | wc -l 136
> 
> Other tools automatically launch a pager, e.g. man. (Admittedly, man
> --help does not use a pager.) The Python help system, pydoc, does the
> same.
> 
> I was thinking that my application could use pydoc:
> 
> def do_help():
>     import pydoc pydoc.pager(HELPTEXT)
> 
> or just print the help text:
> 
> def do_help():
>     # Do I really need to show this???
>     print(HELPTEXT)
> 
> 
> but I was thinking of doing both: give my application a subcommand or an
> option to display help directly in a pager, while -h and --help print to
> stdout as normal.
> 
> What do you think? Too clever?

Send it to stdout, this gives the user the most choice.

if there is enough that I want it paged then I will pipe it to a pager.

do one job, do it well and don't reinvent the wheel unnecessarily. 



-- 
Nobody shot me.
		-- Frank Gusenberg, his last words, when asked by police
		who had shot him 14 times with a machine gun in the Saint
		Valentine's Day Massacre.

Only Capone kills like that.
		-- George "Bugs" Moran, on the Saint Valentine's Day 
Massacre

The only man who kills like that is Bugs Moran.
		-- Al Capone, on the Saint Valentine's Day Massacre


From yuancao85 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 12:46:10 2016
From: yuancao85 at gmail.com (Yuan Cao)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 12:46:10 -0400
Subject: How to get the closure environment in Python?
In-Reply-To: <9ac71307-b9eb-4cfd-a5c9-31c2144f0b43@googlegroups.com>
References: <9ac71307-b9eb-4cfd-a5c9-31c2144f0b43@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CA+wx7tVYp70q9qMe31MXqzPivMtJdde-kRUX_=E+WEwxt6r1jw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:23 PM, Jin Li <lijin.abc at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I want to get the closure environment in Python. As in the following
> example:
>
> def func1():
>         x = 10
>         def func2():
>                 return 0
>
>         return func2
>
> f=func1()
> print f()
>
>
> How could I get the variable `x` in the environment of `func2()`? i.e.
> `f()`.
>
> Best regards,
> Jin
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



Hello,

You can sort of look into the underlying code by using __code__, and it's
associated methods.

I was able to get the variable names with:

print(funct1.__code__.co_varnames).

I was sort of able to get to the value 10 with:

print(func1.__code__.co_consts).

This way seems pretty messy. Other people probably have more elegant ways
of doing this.

I hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Yuan


From steve at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 28 12:46:31 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 02:46:31 +1000
Subject: How to get the closure environment in Python?
References: <9ac71307-b9eb-4cfd-a5c9-31c2144f0b43@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <57223e69$0$1593$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 02:23 am, Jin Li wrote:

> I want to get the closure environment in Python. As in the following
> example:
> 
> def func1():
>         x = 10
>         def func2():
>                 return 0
>         return func2
> 
> f=func1()
> print f()
> 
> 
> How could I get the variable `x` in the environment of `func2()`? i.e.
> `f()`.


In this case, you can't, because f is not a closure. The inner function has
to actually use a variable from the enclosing scope to be a closure -- it's
just a regular function that simply returns 0. The enclosing x does
nothing.

You can see this by inspecting f.__closure__, which is None.

If we use a better example:

def outer():
    x = 10
    def inner():
        return x + 1
    return inner

f = outer()

then you can inspect

f.__closure__[0].cell_contents

which will return 10 (the value of x).



-- 
Steven



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Apr 28 12:49:04 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 09:49:04 -0700
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <57223F00.5000602@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/28/2016 09:33 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> I have an application written in Python which accepts -h or --help to show
> help. I can:
>
> (1) print the help text to stdout;
>
> (2) run the help text through a pager;
>
> (3) do something else?

I think if the user is proficient enough to:

a) run the program from the command line, and

b) use the -h / --help switch

that they are proficient enough to efficiently use said help when output 
to stdout.

--
~Ethan~



From D.Strohl at F5.com  Thu Apr 28 13:02:23 2016
From: D.Strohl at F5.com (Dan Strohl)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 17:02:23 +0000
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <p6rUy.23471$Sk5.1393@fx45.am4>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <p6rUy.23471$Sk5.1393@fx45.am4>
Message-ID: <118360c7f0a4498e8ed35d6dd15b7ac0@seaexchmbx03.olympus.F5Net.com>

I would suggest using argparse https://docs.python.org/3/library/argparse.html as it handles all of that natively... including validating arguments, showing errors, help, etc... however, assuming you don't want to;

Send it to stdout, that allows the user to redirect it if they want to (and plays better with other dev-ops tools)

Don't run it through a pager, the user can do that if needed... HOWEVER
- If you have enough help that you need to page it, consider moving much of it to application documentation (either hosted, or as a doc / txt file).  The command line help should simply be enough hints to remember what the various parameters are, not a full explanation about what it can do (unless the app is really simple).
- Alternatively, you can have a multi-level help approach where the user can type "app_name argument /help" and get more detailed information about that specific argument.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+d.strohl=f5.com at python.org]
> On Behalf Of alister
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:45 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
> 
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 02:33:56 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> > I have an application written in Python which accepts -h or --help to
> > show help. I can:
> >
> > (1) print the help text to stdout;
> >
> > (2) run the help text through a pager;
> >
> > (3) do something else?
> >
> >
> > Many command line tools simply output help to stdout (or stderr, if
> > they're evil), which makes it easy to redirect the help to a file,
> > pass it to grep, etc. For example:
> >
> > [steve at ando ~]$ wget --help | wc -l 136
> >
> > Other tools automatically launch a pager, e.g. man. (Admittedly, man
> > --help does not use a pager.) The Python help system, pydoc, does the
> > same.
> >
> > I was thinking that my application could use pydoc:
> >
> > def do_help():
> >     import pydoc pydoc.pager(HELPTEXT)
> >
> > or just print the help text:
> >
> > def do_help():
> >     # Do I really need to show this???
> >     print(HELPTEXT)
> >
> >
> > but I was thinking of doing both: give my application a subcommand or
> > an option to display help directly in a pager, while -h and --help
> > print to stdout as normal.
> >
> > What do you think? Too clever?
> 
> Send it to stdout, this gives the user the most choice.
> 
> if there is enough that I want it paged then I will pipe it to a pager.
> 
> do one job, do it well and don't reinvent the wheel unnecessarily.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Nobody shot me.
> 		-- Frank Gusenberg, his last words, when asked by police
> 		who had shot him 14 times with a machine gun in the Saint
> 		Valentine's Day Massacre.
> 
> Only Capone kills like that.
> 		-- George "Bugs" Moran, on the Saint Valentine's Day
> Massacre
> 
> The only man who kills like that is Bugs Moran.
> 		-- Al Capone, on the Saint Valentine's Day Massacre
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From gokoproject at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 13:05:51 2016
From: gokoproject at gmail.com (John Wong)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:05:51 -0400
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <118360c7f0a4498e8ed35d6dd15b7ac0@seaexchmbx03.olympus.F5Net.com>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <p6rUy.23471$Sk5.1393@fx45.am4>
 <118360c7f0a4498e8ed35d6dd15b7ac0@seaexchmbx03.olympus.F5Net.com>
Message-ID: <CACCLA562OqV9Sb534mLFwDm6XFgH9Jp68GUfV_KazT9CVDTt9A@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Dan Strohl via Python-list <
python-list at python.org> wrote:

> I would suggest using argparse
> https://docs.python.org/3/library/argparse.html as it handles all of that
> natively... including validating arguments, showing errors, help, etc...
> however, assuming you don't want to;
>
> Totally agree with this approach. Command line should stick with argparse.
Personally I'd stick with argparse and not other open source projects which
is built on argparse (or optparse, the one you don't want to use, but eh
some people decided to do that anyway because of some limitations in
argparse).

In fact you shouldn't need to implement -h/--help when you use argparse. If
a user is going to use the command line, you can almost always assume the
user can use -h/--help, or for those familiar with Linux just provide a man
page.

After all, what you need is a very clear documentation upfront prior to the
installation so your users can refer to that for ultimate help.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 13:06:22 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 03:06:22 +1000
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo+p7J0wsX_RKBXH43zMDJ0n2NB0mag-LGO6BBzyqv7OQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 2:33 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> I have an application written in Python which accepts -h or --help to show
> help. I can:
>
> (1) print the help text to stdout;
>
> (2) run the help text through a pager;
>
> (3) do something else?
>
>
> Many command line tools simply output help to stdout (or stderr, if they're
> evil),

I'm not sure stderr is particularly more evil than stdout, but whatever :)

What you could do is run the help text through a pager only if stdout
is a TTY. That allows it to be grepped conveniently, but also browsed
easily. But I wouldn't worry about that unless you have at least 3-5
pages of screed - for most programs, just dumping the text to a
standard stream is usually enough.

ChrisA


From irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl  Thu Apr 28 13:08:14 2016
From: irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 19:08:14 +0200
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <57224382$0$5808$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

On 28-4-2016 18:33, Steven D'Aprano wrote:


> but I was thinking of doing both: give my application a subcommand or an
> option to display help directly in a pager, while -h and --help print to
> stdout as normal.
> 
> What do you think? Too clever?

An idea: Use just one help option, then

if sys.stdout.isatty():
    #....use a pager to display help text
else:
    #....print all help text normally


Irmen



From D.Strohl at F5.com  Thu Apr 28 13:25:54 2016
From: D.Strohl at F5.com (Dan Strohl)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 17:25:54 +0000
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <CACCLA562OqV9Sb534mLFwDm6XFgH9Jp68GUfV_KazT9CVDTt9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <p6rUy.23471$Sk5.1393@fx45.am4>
 <118360c7f0a4498e8ed35d6dd15b7ac0@seaexchmbx03.olympus.F5Net.com>
 <CACCLA562OqV9Sb534mLFwDm6XFgH9Jp68GUfV_KazT9CVDTt9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d41d72915163429fa45de4787a28ac4b@seaexchmbx03.olympus.F5Net.com>

Yeah, if I am handling arguments from the command line, I use argparse, if I am doing a cli based app (so, going back and forth in interacting with the command line), I would look at clint (https://github.com/kennethreitz/clint)

As many people have said here, don?t reinvent the wheel.

Dan


From: John Wong [mailto:gokoproject at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 10:06 AM
To: Dan Strohl <D.Strohl at F5.com>
Cc: alister <alister.ware at ntlworld.com>; python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?



On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Dan Strohl via Python-list <python-list at python.org<mailto:python-list at python.org>> wrote:
I would suggest using argparse https://docs.python.org/3/library/argparse.html as it handles all of that natively... including validating arguments, showing errors, help, etc... however, assuming you don't want to;
Totally agree with this approach. Command line should stick with argparse. Personally I'd stick with argparse and not other open source projects which is built on argparse (or optparse, the one you don't want to use, but eh some people decided to do that anyway because of some limitations in argparse).

In fact you shouldn't need to implement -h/--help when you use argparse. If a user is going to use the command line, you can almost always assume the user can use -h/--help, or for those familiar with Linux just provide a man page.

After all, what you need is a very clear documentation upfront prior to the installation so your users can refer to that for ultimate help.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Apr 28 13:27:42 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 10:27:42 -0700
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <118360c7f0a4498e8ed35d6dd15b7ac0@seaexchmbx03.olympus.F5Net.com>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <p6rUy.23471$Sk5.1393@fx45.am4>
 <118360c7f0a4498e8ed35d6dd15b7ac0@seaexchmbx03.olympus.F5Net.com>
Message-ID: <5722480E.7020102@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/28/2016 10:02 AM, Dan Strohl via Python-list wrote:

> I would suggest using argparse https://docs.python.org/3/library/argparse.html as it handles all of that natively...

On the other hand, if you feel that argparse is akin to using a canon to 
kill a mosquito, you can try scription*:

- not argparse based
- simple to use
- supports flags, options, multioptions
- supports --help (and -h if no other parameter uses that abbreviation)
- supports --verbose (and -v of no other . . .)
- supports --version
- script parameters are global
- (sub)command parameters are local

--
~Ethan~

* https://pypi.python.org/pypi/scription

P.S.  Yes, my package.  ;)  Created both for the learning, and because I 
feel like argparse is overpowered, complicated, and un-fun for scripts.



From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Thu Apr 28 13:30:04 2016
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 20:30:04 +0300
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <lf5fuu57iar.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Steven D'Aprano writes:

> I have an application written in Python which accepts -h or --help to
> show help. I can:
>
> (1) print the help text to stdout;
>
> (2) run the help text through a pager;
>
> (3) do something else?
>
>
> Many command line tools simply output help to stdout (or stderr, if
> they're evil), which makes it easy to redirect the help to a file,
> pass it to grep, etc. For example:
>
> [steve at ando ~]$ wget --help | wc -l
> 136
>
> Other tools automatically launch a pager, e.g. man. (Admittedly, man
> --help does not use a pager.) The Python help system, pydoc, does the
> same.
>
> I was thinking that my application could use pydoc:
>
> def do_help():
>     import pydoc
>     pydoc.pager(HELPTEXT)
>
> or just print the help text:
>
> def do_help():
>     # Do I really need to show this???
>     print(HELPTEXT)
>
>
> but I was thinking of doing both: give my application a subcommand or
> an option to display help directly in a pager, while -h and --help
> print to stdout as normal.
>
> What do you think? Too clever?

Keep --help, -h reasonably short and print it to stdout. That's what I
expect and then I know what to do with it.

An actual man page is the obvious place for more documentation.

The --help text can tell where more information is available.


From random832 at fastmail.com  Thu Apr 28 13:30:06 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:30:06 -0400
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmo+p7J0wsX_RKBXH43zMDJ0n2NB0mag-LGO6BBzyqv7OQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmo+p7J0wsX_RKBXH43zMDJ0n2NB0mag-LGO6BBzyqv7OQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1461864606.3216317.592558881.0591528C@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016, at 13:06, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 2:33 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>
> wrote:
> > Many command line tools simply output help to stdout (or stderr, if they're
> > evil),
> 
> I'm not sure stderr is particularly more evil than stdout, but whatever
> :)

When a tool has very long help and sends it to stderr:

$ foo --help
ok, it's scrolled off the top, and I could just scroll up, but it's so
long I'll have to search for what I want anyway.
$ foo --help | less
*help flashes on the screen, then blank ~~~~~~ screen from less*
#@!@#$#$!#$!@#$@#!$@!#$!@#$!@#$!@#$!@#$
$ foo --help 2>&1 | less

Basically the only reason this ever happens is that programmers get lazy
and use the same function for usage errors as for --help. A usage error
message *should* go to stderr (in order to show up if the program's
output has been redirected to null, and so as not to be silently piped
to something that expects the program's normal output), but it should be
short. Help should go to stdout because the user actually requested it.

The obvious exception, and probably the bad example that people are
following, is programs that don't actually *have* --help, but briefly
summarize all their options and the meanings of positional arguments in
the usage error. People start with that, and then expand it to a
full-blown GNU-style --help message, but continue sending it to stderr.


From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Apr 28 13:31:37 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 20:31:37 +0300
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <57224382$0$5808$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <87pot9skqu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Irmen de Jong <irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl>:

> An idea: Use just one help option, then
>
> if sys.stdout.isatty():
>     #....use a pager to display help text
> else:
>     #....print all help text normally

I've seen that used, but I find it annoying:

========================================================================
$ man ls
WARNING: terminal is not fully functional
-  (press RETURN)
========================================================================

========================================================================
$ git diff
WARNING: terminal is not fully functional
-  (press RETURN)
========================================================================

when run in emacs' Shell Mode.

Even Ctrl-C doesn't get me out of it. I curse to myself and run again:

========================================================================
$ git diff | cat
...
========================================================================


Marko


From D.Strohl at F5.com  Thu Apr 28 13:32:29 2016
From: D.Strohl at F5.com (Dan Strohl)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 17:32:29 +0000
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <57224382$0$5808$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <57224382$0$5808$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <e03060b486a84d09a2867faa803136a4@seaexchmbx03.olympus.F5Net.com>

I would hesitate to take this approach unless the tool was one that only I was going to be using, and I knew exactly what environments it was going to be in.

I know that many of the system items in python work differently in different operating systems, and different os's report things differently as well as different ways of launching things.  So, for example, I have seen cases where tools such as webmin will try to run a command line tool, and end up hung because they are waiting on a keypress for the next screen... 

While I might do it as a way of setting a default, I would still want to have the ability to force a pager, or force no pager.  I've been bit too many times by programmers doing things automatically for me that I didn't want.

I think that most people who use command line tools these days will be able to figure out how to pipe it to "more" if needed (or whatever).

Dan


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+d.strohl=f5.com at python.org]
> On Behalf Of Irmen de Jong
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 10:08 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
> 
> On 28-4-2016 18:33, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> 
> > but I was thinking of doing both: give my application a subcommand or
> > an option to display help directly in a pager, while -h and --help
> > print to stdout as normal.
> >
> > What do you think? Too clever?
> 
> An idea: Use just one help option, then
> 
> if sys.stdout.isatty():
>     #....use a pager to display help text
> else:
>     #....print all help text normally
> 
> 
> Irmen
> 
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 13:33:48 2016
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 17:33:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <nfthhs$klf$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2016-04-28, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:

> I have an application written in Python which accepts -h or --help to show
> help. I can:
>
> (1) print the help text to stdout;

Yep: just write it to stdout.

> (2) run the help text through a pager;

If you do (1), and I can do that myself if that's what I want.

> (3) do something else?

Nope (at least not by default).

> Many command line tools simply output help to stdout (or stderr, if
> they're evil),

Yep, writing help output to stderr is annoying.

> which makes it easy to redirect the help to a file, pass it to grep,
> etc.

Exactly.

> but I was thinking of doing both: give my application a subcommand or an
> option to display help directly in a pager, while -h and --help print to
> stdout as normal.
>
> What do you think? Too clever?

As long as -? -h --help just write stuff to stdout you can add
whatever other options you like that run pagers, start up web
browsers, or show mp4 movies on the wall without annoying grouchy old
Unix users like me.  ;)

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! FOOLED you!  Absorb
                                  at               EGO SHATTERING impulse
                              gmail.com            rays, polyester poltroon!!



From D.Strohl at F5.com  Thu Apr 28 13:39:57 2016
From: D.Strohl at F5.com (Dan Strohl)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 17:39:57 +0000
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <1461864606.3216317.592558881.0591528C@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAPTjJmo+p7J0wsX_RKBXH43zMDJ0n2NB0mag-LGO6BBzyqv7OQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1461864606.3216317.592558881.0591528C@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <b830effaaa954dad9b5c53786b4b665e@seaexchmbx03.olympus.F5Net.com>

Yup.. another reason to use something like argparse... you define the argument descriptions, help, and when you raise an error, it automatically handles the output, sending it to the right place (stderr/stdout)... as well as allowing you to define different levels of verbosity easily... (or not if you don't want)

Argparse isn't the best tool in the world, and there are some things that annoy me about it sometimes, but it works pretty well within its boundaries.

(and if the code's already written, I'm not suggesting that it be re-written just to move it to a common library.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+d.strohl=f5.com at python.org]
> On Behalf Of Random832
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 10:30 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
> 
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016, at 13:06, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 2:33 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>
> > wrote:
> > > Many command line tools simply output help to stdout (or stderr, if
> > > they're evil),
> >
> > I'm not sure stderr is particularly more evil than stdout, but
> > whatever
> > :)
> 
> When a tool has very long help and sends it to stderr:
> 
> $ foo --help
> ok, it's scrolled off the top, and I could just scroll up, but it's so long I'll have to
> search for what I want anyway.
> $ foo --help | less
> *help flashes on the screen, then blank ~~~~~~ screen from less*
> #@!@#$#$!#$!@#$@#!$@!#$!@#$!@#$!@#$!@#$
> $ foo --help 2>&1 | less
> 
> Basically the only reason this ever happens is that programmers get lazy and
> use the same function for usage errors as for --help. A usage error message
> *should* go to stderr (in order to show up if the program's output has been
> redirected to null, and so as not to be silently piped to something that
> expects the program's normal output), but it should be short. Help should go
> to stdout because the user actually requested it.
> 
> The obvious exception, and probably the bad example that people are
> following, is programs that don't actually *have* --help, but briefly
> summarize all their options and the meanings of positional arguments in the
> usage error. People start with that, and then expand it to a full-blown GNU-
> style --help message, but continue sending it to stderr.
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From random832 at fastmail.com  Thu Apr 28 13:40:10 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:40:10 -0400
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <nfthhs$klf$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nfthhs$klf$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1461865210.3218352.592571425.2069E4EB@webmail.messagingengine.com>



On Thu, Apr 28, 2016, at 13:33, Grant Edwards wrote:
> As long as -? -h --help just write stuff to stdout you can add
> whatever other options you like that run pagers, start up web
> browsers, or show mp4 movies on the wall without annoying grouchy old
> Unix users like me.  ;)

One disadvantage is that you have to compose two forms of documentation.
I suspect this is why git [command] --help just opens the manpage. (It
helps that man itself just sends output to stdout when not outputting to
a tty... though it's very annoying that on Windows it opens it in a web
browser instead.)


From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 14:14:41 2016
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 18:14:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nfthhs$klf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461865210.3218352.592571425.2069E4EB@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <nftjuh$t2b$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2016-04-28, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016, at 13:33, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> As long as -? -h --help just write stuff to stdout you can add
>> whatever other options you like that run pagers, start up web
>> browsers, or show mp4 movies on the wall without annoying grouchy old
>> Unix users like me.  ;)
>
> One disadvantage is that you have to compose two forms of documentation.

Only if you want two forms of documentation.

If you add an option to run the help info through a pager, I don't see
how that requires you to compose two forms for documentation.  If you
want both plaintext and video help, then yes you'll have to prepare
two forms of documentation.

> I suspect this is why git [command] --help just opens the
> manpage. (It helps that man itself just sends output to stdout when
> not outputting to a tty... though it's very annoying that on Windows
> it opens it in a web browser instead.)

I don't understand.

If you want your comand-line help info to be in manpage format, that
doesn't mean you have to run it through a pager or open a new window
running the man command, just write the formatted text to stdout.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! My mind is making
                                  at               ashtrays in Dayton ...
                              gmail.com            



From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Apr 28 14:31:50 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 21:31:50 +0300
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nfthhs$klf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461865210.3218352.592571425.2069E4EB@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftjuh$t2b$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.207.1461867295.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87a8kdshyh.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com>:

> On 2016-04-28, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
>> One disadvantage is that you have to compose two forms of
>> documentation.
>
> Only if you want two forms of documentation.
>
> If you add an option to run the help info through a pager, I don't see
> how that requires you to compose two forms for documentation. If you
> want both plaintext and video help, then yes you'll have to prepare
> two forms of documentation.

I wouldn't want --help to output a reference manual.

Consider GNU tar:

  tar --help   ==>   a list of options
  man tar      ==>   a description of the command and the options
  info tar     ==>   a user manual


Marko


From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 14:36:37 2016
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 18:36:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Best way to do subversion stuff
Message-ID: <nftl7l$i8i$1@ger.gmane.org>

I'd like to write some small command-line utilities to do some tasks
in subversion:

 * Do a commit that includes all modified externals.

 * Do a status that includes status of all externals.

 * Do a log that combines logs of . and all externals.

There appear to be three options:

 1) pysvn  <http://pysvn.tigris.org/>

   This seems to be the canonical Python API, but is a little out of
   date (I'd have to downgrade subversion from 1.9.3 to 1.9.1).

 2) PySvn  <https://github.com/dsoprea/PySvn>

   Doesn't do commit or status operations and doesn't handle
   externals at all. AFIACT it's running the the command-line
   /usr/bin/svn with various options.

   Nice job picking a name that's not going to get mixed up with
   pysvn. ;)

 3) os.subproces + /usr/bin/svn 

   This is more or less re-inventing 2) The xml output option makes
   this approach fairly easy. It might be faster to write something
   special-purpose from scratch than to figure out the internals of
   PySvn and modify it to add the operations/options I want.

Any recommendations?

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Finally, Zippy
                                  at               drives his 1958 RAMBLER
                              gmail.com            METROPOLITAN into the
                                                   faculty dining room.



From davidgshi at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Apr 28 14:37:55 2016
From: davidgshi at yahoo.co.uk (David Shi)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 18:37:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Simplest way to locate a string in a column and get the value on
 the same row in another column
In-Reply-To: <759417988.6710506.1461868599459.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <759417988.6710506.1461868599459.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <759417988.6710506.1461868599459.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1650815019.6612341.1461868675273.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>





 What is the simplest way to locate a string in a column and get the value on the same row in another column ?
1 ?a2 ?b3 ?c
Locate b and obtain 2 in a table.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Regards.
David

  

From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Apr 28 15:06:51 2016
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 14:06:51 -0500
Subject: Simplest way to locate a string in a column and get the value
 on the same row in another column
In-Reply-To: <1650815019.6612341.1461868675273.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <759417988.6710506.1461868599459.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <759417988.6710506.1461868599459.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1650815019.6612341.1461868675273.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20160428140651.36ce5e63@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2016-04-28 18:37, David Shi via Python-list wrote:
>  What is the simplest way to locate a string in a column and get
> the value on the same row in another column ? 1 ?a2 ?b3 ?c
> Locate b and obtain 2 in a table.
> Looking forward to hearing from you.

I've had success with using regexp matches with their start/stop
location information:

  s1 = "1  a2    b3  c"
  s2 = "abcdefghijklmn"

  import re
  r = re.compile(r"a2\s*") # define the pattern you want
  m = r.search(s1)
  if m: # if our pattern was in the header
    # take the corresponding slice out of s2
    result = s2[m.start():m.end()] # 'defghi'

This also works nicely with re.finditer() as I've had
column-delimited files where each header had no spaces

  EMPID    FIRST_NAME     LAST_NAME
  123456   John           Smith
  234567   Ellen          Miller

so I did something like

  r = re.compile(r"(\S+)\s*")
  with open("data.txt") as f:
    headers = next(f)
    header_map = dict(
      (m.group(1), slice(m.start(), m.end()))
      for m in r.finditer(headers)
      )
    for row in f:
      empid = row[header_map["EMPID"]].rstrip()
      fname = row[header_map["FIRST_NAME"]].rstrip()
      lname = row[header_map["LAST_NAME"]].rstrip()
      process(empid, fname, lname)
      # or
      # data = dict(
      #   (field, row[slc])
      #   for field, slc in row.items()
      #   )
      # process(data)


Hope this gives you some helpful techniques.

-tkc








From gordon at panix.com  Thu Apr 28 15:08:56 2016
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 19:08:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Simplest way to locate a string in a column and get the value on
 the same row in another column
References: <759417988.6710506.1461868599459.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <759417988.6710506.1461868599459.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1650815019.6612341.1461868675273.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <mailman.209.1461869020.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nftn48$60r$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <mailman.209.1461869020.32212.python-list at python.org> David Shi <davidgshi at yahoo.co.uk> writes:

> What is the simplest way to locate a string in a column and get the value
> on the same row in another column ?

You haven't given enough context for us to be able to answer.

Are you talking about a spreadsheet, a database table, an HTML table,
or something else?

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 15:39:19 2016
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 19:39:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nfthhs$klf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461865210.3218352.592571425.2069E4EB@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftjuh$t2b$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.207.1461867295.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8kdshyh.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <nftot6$4ii$2@ger.gmane.org>

On 2016-04-28, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards at gmail.com>:
>
>> On 2016-04-28, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
>>> One disadvantage is that you have to compose two forms of
>>> documentation.
>>
>> Only if you want two forms of documentation.
>>
>> If you add an option to run the help info through a pager, I don't see
>> how that requires you to compose two forms for documentation. If you
>> want both plaintext and video help, then yes you'll have to prepare
>> two forms of documentation.
>
> I wouldn't want --help to output a reference manual.
>
> Consider GNU tar:
>
>   tar --help   ==>   a list of options
>   man tar      ==>   a description of the command and the options
>   info tar     ==>   a user manual

That's fine.  If you want two or three forms of documentation then you
prepare two or three forms of documentation.

Adding an option to run the default 'help' output through a pager or
display it in a web browser doesn't somehow force you "to compose two
forms of documentation" unless you want two forms of documentation.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! A dwarf is passing out
                                  at               somewhere in Detroit!
                              gmail.com            



From cs at zip.com.au  Thu Apr 28 15:49:36 2016
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 05:49:36 +1000
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmo+p7J0wsX_RKBXH43zMDJ0n2NB0mag-LGO6BBzyqv7OQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPTjJmo+p7J0wsX_RKBXH43zMDJ0n2NB0mag-LGO6BBzyqv7OQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160428194936.GA19597@cskk.homeip.net>

On 29Apr2016 03:06, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 2:33 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> I have an application written in Python which accepts -h or --help to show
>> help. I can:
>>
>> (1) print the help text to stdout;
>>
>> (2) run the help text through a pager;
>>
>> (3) do something else?
>>
>>
>> Many command line tools simply output help to stdout (or stderr, if they're
>> evil),
>
>I'm not sure stderr is particularly more evil than stdout, but whatever :)

I'm sure. If I _ask_ for the help information, it is not an error message.  
Instead it is desired output. The logic is clear.

If I screw up and elicit an error and the usage message (which might be the 
help text), that is an error message. But -h/--help? That is standard output, 
even if it is the same usage text.

And on this topic, let me preemptively flame commands whose entire usage 
message is "use -h/--help for usage". More evil.

>What you could do is run the help text through a pager only if stdout
>is a TTY. That allows it to be grepped conveniently, but also browsed
>easily. But I wouldn't worry about that unless you have at least 3-5
>pages of screed - for most programs, just dumping the text to a
>standard stream is usually enough.

+1 to this. I'm -0 on conditionally offering a pager based on isatty; Marko 
Rauhamaa has illustrated one downside, and personally I find _unexpectedly_ 
paged output to be jarring, requiring me to modeshift my brain.

So I'm for keeping it simple and just sending it to stdout.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>


From random832 at fastmail.com  Thu Apr 28 15:51:25 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 15:51:25 -0400
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <nftot6$4ii$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nfthhs$klf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461865210.3218352.592571425.2069E4EB@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftjuh$t2b$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.207.1461867295.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8kdshyh.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <nftot6$4ii$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1461873085.3251720.592695601.44633E5E@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016, at 15:39, Grant Edwards wrote:
> That's fine.  If you want two or three forms of documentation then you
> prepare two or three forms of documentation.
> 
> Adding an option to run the default 'help' output through a pager or
> display it in a web browser doesn't somehow force you "to compose two
> forms of documentation" unless you want two forms of documentation.

The point is that having "help" output at all (beyond either a cursory
"see the manpage") implies two forms of documentation (given you already
have a manpage), and some people choose not to do that, instead
launching directly into the manpage (which implies using a pager)


From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Thu Apr 28 16:11:27 2016
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 20:11:27 GMT
Subject: Have I ofended someone?
Message-ID: <P7uUy.38295$nU4.25945@fx34.am4>


I don't see my posts appearing, posting to news group using Pan on Linux.
posts to other news groups are fine


-- 
Just about every computer on the market today runs Unix, except the Mac
(and nobody cares about it).
		-- Bill Joy 6/21/85


From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Apr 28 16:12:08 2016
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 23:12:08 +0300
Subject: Have I ofended someone?
References: <P7uUy.38295$nU4.25945@fx34.am4>
Message-ID: <8760v1sdbb.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

alister <alister.ware at ntlworld.com>:

> I don't see my posts appearing, posting to news group using Pan on
> Linux. posts to other news groups are fine

Take yourself out of your killfile.


Marko


From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Thu Apr 28 16:13:38 2016
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 20:13:38 GMT
Subject: Have I ofended someone?
References: <P7uUy.38295$nU4.25945@fx34.am4>
Message-ID: <S9uUy.38397$nU4.24257@fx34.am4>

On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 20:11:27 +0000, alister wrote:

> I don't see my posts appearing, posting to news group using Pan on
> Linux.
> posts to other news groups are fine

No just going blind
Someone top-posted to my last reply & then everything got snipped to 
restore readability.




-- 
Be careful what you set your heart on -- for it will surely be yours.
		-- James Baldwin, "Nobody Knows My Name"


From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 17:08:47 2016
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 21:08:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nfthhs$klf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461865210.3218352.592571425.2069E4EB@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftjuh$t2b$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.207.1461867295.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8kdshyh.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <nftot6$4ii$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461873085.3251720.592695601.44633E5E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <nftu4v$3d1$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2016-04-28, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016, at 15:39, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> That's fine.  If you want two or three forms of documentation then you
>> prepare two or three forms of documentation.
>> 
>> Adding an option to run the default 'help' output through a pager or
>> display it in a web browser doesn't somehow force you "to compose two
>> forms of documentation" unless you want two forms of documentation.
>
> The point is that having "help" output at all (beyond either a cursory
> "see the manpage") implies two forms of documentation (given you already
> have a manpage), and some people choose not to do that, instead
> launching directly into the manpage (which implies using a pager)

But I'm saying that having --help output the manpage should not imply
using a pager.

If --help is going to output the manpage, then I'm saying it can (and
should) be written to stdout without use of pager (and it shouldn't
have escape sequences or backspaces in it either).  The Unix way is
that the output from whatever --help should be plain text written to
stdout (regardless of length).

If you want to output the man page, this can be accomplished simply by
doing someting like:

  os.environ["GROFF_NO_SGR"] = "1";
  os.system("man -Tascii mycmd | col -bx");

If I want the --help output run through a pager, I'll do it myself.

I agree that a good argument can be made that the --help output should
be a concise summary, and that a separate longer man page might be a
good idea.  But whatever you decide to provide when invoked with
--help it should be plaintext written to stdout.  No pagers, no
colors, no HTML.

[if you're really going to invoke the 'man' command, you should do it
with the subprocess module with shell=False -- but examples with
os.system() are easier to grok]

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Sometime in 1993
                                  at               NANCY SINATRA will lead a
                              gmail.com            BLOODLESS COUP on GUAM!!



From davidgshi at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Apr 28 19:38:41 2016
From: davidgshi at yahoo.co.uk (David Shi)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 23:38:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Pivot table of Pandas
In-Reply-To: <1369944594.6701652.1461886649215.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1369944594.6701652.1461886649215.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1369944594.6701652.1461886649215.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <165702145.6760238.1461886721299.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>





 Hello, Matt,
Please see the web link.Pandas Pivot Table?Explained

| ? |
| ? | ? | ? | ? | ? |
| Pandas Pivot Table?ExplainedExplanation of pandas pivot_table function. |
|  |
| View on?pbpython.com | Preview by Yahoo |
|  |
| ? |


Debra and Fred have their own groups.
How to split the pivot table into separate tables?
What types of objects are these pivot tables?
How to access the "manager" column?
the pivot table is interesting to users, but it is very different from databases which we normally know.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Regards.
David

  

From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Apr 28 20:48:05 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:48:05 +1200
Subject: Pythonic style
In-Reply-To: <mailman.183.1461842191.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
 <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <572166FA.3020108@icloud.com> <85y47yjxj5.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <57217E73.9040907@icloud.com> <572188F8.7010304@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmrkELf4rb+1UgmPwHxmd+wzp6WLxxN+ut4L3xJuHhmqmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.168.1461815768.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <c7ca7770-7dfa-463c-b776-cab472d9f79e@googlegroups.com>
 <540fc958-52d6-6049-75f2-5ee42657688e@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.183.1461842191.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dofpa7Fpm7eU1@mid.individual.net>

MRAB wrote:

> Is it worthy of being in the Zen of Python?

+1. Maybe something along the lines of:

    Dunder methods are for defining, not calling.
    Unless you're a dunderhead[1].

[1] Meant in the sense of an enthusiast, cf. gearhead.

-- 
Greg


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 20:57:11 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 10:57:11 +1000
Subject: Pythonic style
In-Reply-To: <dofpa7Fpm7eU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
 <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <572166FA.3020108@icloud.com> <85y47yjxj5.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <57217E73.9040907@icloud.com> <572188F8.7010304@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmrkELf4rb+1UgmPwHxmd+wzp6WLxxN+ut4L3xJuHhmqmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.168.1461815768.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <c7ca7770-7dfa-463c-b776-cab472d9f79e@googlegroups.com>
 <540fc958-52d6-6049-75f2-5ee42657688e@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.183.1461842191.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <dofpa7Fpm7eU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoyOBA=sEk=4W2uBLJDSwkEKK1tWscU2b1sNtxDNHn1Mg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Gregory Ewing
<greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
> MRAB wrote:
>
>> Is it worthy of being in the Zen of Python?
>
>
> +1. Maybe something along the lines of:
>
>    Dunder methods are for defining, not calling.
>    Unless you're a dunderhead[1].
>
> [1] Meant in the sense of an enthusiast, cf. gearhead.

I thought the twentieth zen would never be found?

ChrisA


From steve at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 28 21:40:17 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 11:40:17 +1000
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nfthhs$klf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461865210.3218352.592571425.2069E4EB@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftjuh$t2b$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.207.1461867295.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8kdshyh.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <nftot6$4ii$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461873085.3251720.592695601.44633E5E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftu4v$3d1$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.214.1461877741.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5722bb82$0$1600$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 07:08 am, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2016-04-28, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016, at 15:39, Grant Edwards wrote:
>>> That's fine.  If you want two or three forms of documentation then you
>>> prepare two or three forms of documentation.
>>> 
>>> Adding an option to run the default 'help' output through a pager or
>>> display it in a web browser doesn't somehow force you "to compose two
>>> forms of documentation" unless you want two forms of documentation.
>>
>> The point is that having "help" output at all (beyond either a cursory
>> "see the manpage") implies two forms of documentation (given you already
>> have a manpage), and some people choose not to do that, instead
>> launching directly into the manpage (which implies using a pager)
> 
> But I'm saying that having --help output the manpage should not imply
> using a pager.


What manpage? I don't have a manpage. The only help my application has is
whatever it outputs (which it gets from its docstring).

What is a good place where I can find out more about writing manpages?


> If --help is going to output the manpage, then I'm saying it can (and
> should) be written to stdout without use of pager (and it shouldn't
> have escape sequences or backspaces in it either).  The Unix way is
> that the output from whatever --help should be plain text written to
> stdout (regardless of length).

Agree. The -h/--help option will output plain text to stdout.


> If you want to output the man page, this can be accomplished simply by
> doing someting like:
> 
>   os.environ["GROFF_NO_SGR"] = "1";
>   os.system("man -Tascii mycmd | col -bx");

That doesn't work for me: 

[steve at ando ~]$ man -Tasciii rm
man: invalid option -- T



However, this almost works:

man -Pcat rm

appears to output unformatted, plain text to stdout. However, if you capture
the output (say, to a file) you'll see it is full of backspaces, e.g.:

N^HNA^HAM^HME^HE
       rm - remove files or directories

S^HSY^HYN^HNO^HOP^HPS^HSI^HIS^HS
       r^Hrm^Hm [_^HO_^HP_^HT_^HI_^HO_^HN]... _^HF_^HI_^HL_^HE...


instead of 

NAME
        rm - remove files or directories

SYNOPSIS
       rm [OPTION]... FILE...


Apparently `less` understands overstriking and displays it as bold (or
underlining in the case of _^H. That's very clever, but how do I get actual
plain text out of `man` without the backspaces?



> If I want the --help output run through a pager, I'll do it myself.

Easy enough to say for Linux/Unix users, but there are those who might not
have a pager that is easy to use, or at all. pydoc goes to considerable
trouble to work out the best pager available for your platform, falling
back to its own if needed. To use that is literally a two liner:

import pydoc
pydoc.pager(HELPTEXT)




-- 
Steven



From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 21:49:14 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 18:49:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Controlling the passing of data
In-Reply-To: <mailman.194.1461856753.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <afa1ab1d-6d6a-421c-9351-c8805cc5fbea@googlegroups.com>
 <nft3s8$3ku$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.189.1461850832.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <cf68e844-441c-4498-a730-0c7b08da1ee9@googlegroups.com>
 <5c94882cb24c441bad13fd122851bd38@seaexchmbx03.olympus.F5Net.com>
 <mailman.194.1461856753.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <892ed2df-b5ee-48ba-9cdc-4c05a8f097ab@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, 29 April 2016 01:19:28 UTC+10, Dan Strohl  wrote:
> If I am reading this correctly... you have something like (you will have to excuse my lack of knowledge about what kinds of information these actually are):
> 
> <race id=1>
>     <nomination>1234</nomination>
>     <meeting>first</meeting>
> </race>
> <race id=2>
>     <nomination>5678</nomination>
>     <meeting>second</meeting>
> </race>
> 
> 
> And you want something like:
>     nominations = [(1,1234), (2,5678)]
>     meetings = [(1,'first'),(2,'second')]
> 
> if that is correct, my suggestion is to do something like (this is psudeo code, I didn't look up the exact calls to use):
> 
> nomination_list = []
> meeting_list = []
> 
> for race_element in xml_file('race'):
>     id = race_element.get_attr('id')
>     for nomination_element in race_element('nomination'):
>     	nomination = nomination_element.get_text()
>                nomination_list.append((id, nomination))
> 
>     for meeting_element in race_element('meeting'):
>     	meeting = meeting_element.get_text()
>                meeting_list.append((id, meeting))
> 
> 
> 
> 

Yes in essence that is what I am trying to acheive however the XML I have has many attributes like this.

for example this is one nomination.

<nomination number="1" saddlecloth="1" horse="Astern" id="198247" idnumber="" regnumber="" blinkers="0" trainernumber="235" trainersurname="O'Shea" trainerfirstname="John" trainertrack="Agnes Banks/Hawkesbury" rsbtrainername="John O'Shea" jockeynumber="86876" jockeysurname="McDonald" jockeyfirstname="James" barrier="10" weight="56.5" rating="0" description="B C 2 Medaglia D'oro(USA) x Essaouira (Exceed And Excel)" colours="Royal Blue" owners="Godolphin" dob="2013-09-24T00:00:00" age="3" sex="C" career="3-2-0-0 $220750.00" thistrack="1-1-0-0 $68750.00" thisdistance="1-1-0-0 $152000.00" goodtrack="3-2-0-0 $220750.00" heavytrack="0-0-0-0" slowtrack="" deadtrack="" fasttrack="0-0-0-0" firstup="2-2-0-0 $220750.00" secondup="1-0-0-0" mindistancewin="0" maxdistancewin="0" finished="1" weightvariation="0" variedweight="56.5" decimalmargin="0.00" penalty="0" pricestarting="$2.15F" sectional200="0" sectional400="0" sectional600="0" sectional800="0" sectional1200="0" bonusindicator="" />

Therefore I thought that if I tried to do it like the code you posted it would soon become unweildy.

> for race_element in xml_file('race'):
>     id = race_element.get_attr('id')
>     for nomination_element in race_element('nomination'):
>     	nomination = nomination_element.get_text()
>                nomination_list.append((id, nomination))

So I created a list of the attributes of each class meeting race nomination and then parsed that list through the list comprehension.

On putting out the code though I realised that whilst each class worked I had no way to relate the race to the meeting, the nomination to the race so if I then loaded the csv or created sql to push it to a db it would loose its relation.

So when I say
meetattrs = ('id', 'venue', 'date', 'rail', 'weather', 'trackcondition')

In my thinking this is a table.
Meeting
id
venue
date
rail
weather
trackcondition

There is no foreign key relation to race, so in this question I am saying shouldn't I put the meeting_id as a foreign key into the race attributes before parsing race and then I can have a 'id' in meeting related to the new 'race_id' in race. The id of race would then be put in nomnation before parsing and I would do the same?

Hoping this is clearer, probably a little close to the problem to express it clearly so I apologise for that.


Sayth


From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 21:59:21 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 18:59:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Pivot table of Pandas
In-Reply-To: <mailman.215.1461887070.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <1369944594.6701652.1461886649215.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1369944594.6701652.1461886649215.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <165702145.6760238.1461886721299.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <mailman.215.1461887070.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fe866679-52fc-4c5a-a810-b79b43e1ad59@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, 29 April 2016 09:56:13 UTC+10, David Shi  wrote:
> Hello, Matt,
> Please see the web link.Pandas Pivot Table?Explained
> 
> | ? |
> | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? |
> | Pandas Pivot Table?ExplainedExplanation of pandas pivot_table function. |
> |  |
> | View on?pbpython.com | Preview by Yahoo |
> |  |
> | ? |
> 
> 
> Debra and Fred have their own groups.
> How to split the pivot table into separate tables?
> What types of objects are these pivot tables?
> How to access the "manager" column?
> the pivot table is interesting to users, but it is very different from databases which we normally know.
> Looking forward to hearing from you.
> Regards.
> David

Unsure of your exact requirements but this doc on reshaping seems to cover the requirements posted. You would not get 2 tables that would be counter-intuitive to a pivottable.

You would just define a group in rows and the columns as the data or vice versa.

So 
Debra             data of some sort
  team_member1     44
  team_member2     56
Fred
  team_memeber1    62
  team_memeber2    33

http://pandas.pydata.org/pandas-docs/stable/reshaping.html

Sayth


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Apr 28 22:15:20 2016
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 19:15:20 -0700
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <877ffhgnyf.fsf@nightsong.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> writes:
> (1) print the help text to stdout;
> (2) run the help text through a pager;

Stdout unless the PAGER env var is set.  Otherwise, I'd say still stdout
since the person can pipe it through a pager if they want, but you could
use the pager or be fancy and try to detect if stdout is a pty/tty
before using the pager.  Git pages by default and it bugs me because I
tend to use git commands in emacs shell windows and the pager makes a
mess.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 01:00:23 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 22:00:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <877ffhgnyf.fsf@nightsong.com>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <877ffhgnyf.fsf@nightsong.com>
Message-ID: <0d5b5562-7a08-41de-8b84-a13f0792e767@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 29, 2016 at 7:45:35 AM UTC+5:30, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano  writes:
> > (1) print the help text to stdout;
> > (2) run the help text through a pager;
> 
> Stdout unless the PAGER env var is set.  Otherwise, I'd say still stdout
> since the person can pipe it through a pager if they want, but you could
> use the pager or be fancy and try to detect if stdout is a pty/tty
> before using the pager.  Git pages by default and it bugs me because I
> tend to use git commands in emacs shell windows and the pager makes a
> mess.

Quite bewildered by this thread...
Are we in 2016?
[Reminds me of the bizarre claim that world has not moved on from text]
eg I am on on Ubuntu 16.4 (vanilla) right now.
This means that when I pull up a terminal I get gnome-terminal.
Which means that when the screen fills up I get a scroll bar
Now I can get perverse and use xterm/rxvt.
Or a console outside of X (ctrl-Alt-F[1-6] )
And even there Shift-pgup works

Of course there is the 1 in 100 times this does not hold;
- ssh to a remote machine
- Upgraded ubuntu and broke X 
- etc

[What happens in windows on a cmd-box... not sure]

IOW pager functionality is quite builtin in shells nowadays
Why replicate and cause annoyance?


From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Fri Apr 29 02:02:00 2016
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 09:02:00 +0300
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <877ffhgnyf.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <0d5b5562-7a08-41de-8b84-a13f0792e767@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <lf51t5pdkbr.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Rustom Mody writes:

> On Friday, April 29, 2016 at 7:45:35 AM UTC+5:30, Paul Rubin wrote:
>> Steven D'Aprano  writes:
>> > (1) print the help text to stdout;
>> > (2) run the help text through a pager;
>> 
>> Stdout unless the PAGER env var is set.  Otherwise, I'd say still stdout
>> since the person can pipe it through a pager if they want, but you could
>> use the pager or be fancy and try to detect if stdout is a pty/tty
>> before using the pager.  Git pages by default and it bugs me because I
>> tend to use git commands in emacs shell windows and the pager makes a
>> mess.
>
> Quite bewildered by this thread...

Yet you seem to agree with everybody else in this thread? Including the
two persons you quote above, if I read them right :)

> Are we in 2016?

$ date '+Yes: %F %T'
Yes: 2016-04-29 08:11:07

> [Reminds me of the bizarre claim that world has not moved on from text]
> eg I am on on Ubuntu 16.4 (vanilla) right now.
> This means that when I pull up a terminal I get gnome-terminal.
> Which means that when the screen fills up I get a scroll bar
> Now I can get perverse and use xterm/rxvt.
> Or a console outside of X (ctrl-Alt-F[1-6] )
> And even there Shift-pgup works
>
> Of course there is the 1 in 100 times this does not hold;
> - ssh to a remote machine
> - Upgraded ubuntu and broke X 
> - etc

Remote shell works fine.

I spend most of my time in a shell on a remote machine over ssh, without
X forwarding. I have turned scrollbars off.

If I need to scroll back the remote shell session a screen or more, I
just slide my index finger along the touchpad edge, or index and middle
finger over the touchpad on the other laptop.

In Emacs in that remote shell, including a shell session in the Emacs, I
use the normal keys to scroll back and forth. There the touchpad doesn't
scroll at all, and I don't expect it to, either.

> [What happens in windows on a cmd-box... not sure]

If that happens to be crippled, there must be other terminal programs
that work.

> IOW pager functionality is quite builtin in shells nowadays
> Why replicate and cause annoyance?

First, more and less do more than just scroll and they may be nicer even
for just scrolling. Second, if things are set up the way that just about
everybody in this thread has been advocating, you have full control over
your use of a pager. If it hurts, don't do it. Does it annoy you that
somebody else is doing it?

It's the *default* paging that is mildly annoying when it works and a
major pain when it doesn't. (Another major pain is a command-line tool
that tries to open a window and can't because I haven't enabled it.
Please don't make this the default either. :)


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Apr 29 02:04:34 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:04:34 +1200
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <87pot9skqu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<57224382$0$5808$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
 <87pot9skqu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <dogbrkFst8mU1@mid.individual.net>

> Irmen de Jong <irmen.NOSPAM at xs4all.nl>:
> 
>>if sys.stdout.isatty():
>>    #....use a pager to display help text
>>else:
>>    #....print all help text normally

I think nowadays it's an anti-pattern for programs to
do their own pagination. Very often the "terminal" is
a GUI application with its own facilities for scrolling
and searching that are much nicer to use. I prefer the
program to just give me the output and get out of the
way. If I want a clunky tty-oriented pager I'll pipe
it to "more".

-- 
Greg


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Apr 29 02:12:14 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:12:14 +1200
Subject: Pythonic style
In-Reply-To: <mailman.216.1461891434.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
 <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <572166FA.3020108@icloud.com> <85y47yjxj5.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <57217E73.9040907@icloud.com> <572188F8.7010304@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmrkELf4rb+1UgmPwHxmd+wzp6WLxxN+ut4L3xJuHhmqmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.168.1461815768.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <c7ca7770-7dfa-463c-b776-cab472d9f79e@googlegroups.com>
 <540fc958-52d6-6049-75f2-5ee42657688e@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.183.1461842191.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <dofpa7Fpm7eU1@mid.individual.net>
 <CAPTjJmoyOBA=sEk=4W2uBLJDSwkEKK1tWscU2b1sNtxDNHn1Mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.216.1461891434.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dogc9vFst8mU2@mid.individual.net>

Chris Angelico wrote:
> I thought the twentieth zen would never be found?

Yes. This will have to be numbered the 21st zen
to maintain that invariant.

-- 
Greg


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 02:45:48 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:45:48 +1000
Subject: Pythonic style
In-Reply-To: <dogc9vFst8mU2@mid.individual.net>
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
 <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <572166FA.3020108@icloud.com> <85y47yjxj5.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <57217E73.9040907@icloud.com> <572188F8.7010304@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmrkELf4rb+1UgmPwHxmd+wzp6WLxxN+ut4L3xJuHhmqmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.168.1461815768.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <c7ca7770-7dfa-463c-b776-cab472d9f79e@googlegroups.com>
 <540fc958-52d6-6049-75f2-5ee42657688e@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.183.1461842191.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <dofpa7Fpm7eU1@mid.individual.net>
 <CAPTjJmoyOBA=sEk=4W2uBLJDSwkEKK1tWscU2b1sNtxDNHn1Mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.216.1461891434.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <dogc9vFst8mU2@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpeHDjax=fLw+iVkk2nyxCxg9bv=rYkS846wOkkWnNutw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Gregory Ewing
<greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
> Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> I thought the twentieth zen would never be found?
>
>
> Yes. This will have to be numbered the 21st zen
> to maintain that invariant.
>

Python for the 21st Century.

In a hundred years, another zen!

ChrisA


From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 29 05:36:50 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 19:36:50 +1000
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <877ffhgnyf.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <0d5b5562-7a08-41de-8b84-a13f0792e767@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <57232b34$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 03:00 pm, Rustom Mody wafted information-rich pheromones
into the air, where they diffused rapidly:

> Quite bewildered by this thread...
> Are we in 2016?
> [Reminds me of the bizarre claim that world has not moved on from text]

(For the benefit of those of us still stuck in the 2000s, I have transcribed
Rustom's pheromones into the obsolete medium of text.)


> eg I am on on Ubuntu 16.4 (vanilla) right now.
> This means that when I pull up a terminal I get gnome-terminal.
> Which means that when the screen fills up I get a scroll bar

Yes. So do I.

Of course, some applications (like screen) interfere with that, but even
when you have a scroll bar, having to scroll back more than a few pages is
a PITA. If you set the number of scrollback lines too low, you run out and
the things you are interested in disappears past the top... and if you set
it too high, it's too hard to locate the section that you actually want.

The bottom line is, screen real estate is a valuable resource, but even more
valuable is human attention, and pagers are a way of managing attention.
Screen space is not necessary rare, but neither is it something that we can
just consume thoughtlessly. Hence we have a whole range of options
available to us, to make the most of screen space:

- multiple windows;
- multiple tabs within each window;
- scroll bars within each tab;
- and pagers.

Think of a pager as being somewhat like a popup window for text: at the very
low cost of a single line of space in your terminal, you can "pop up" the
text, read it, and dismiss it again without using up any of the screen
space in your scrolling text view. (Apart from that one line.)


> IOW pager functionality is quite builtin in shells nowadays

Apart from those where they're not.


> Why replicate and cause annoyance?

If you don't want to use the functionality, don't.



-- 
Steven



From santanu01 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 05:47:49 2016
From: santanu01 at gmail.com (San)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 02:47:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: def __init__(self,cls):
Message-ID: <70f3b5f6-33b7-4dc8-9c30-92fcc1b1f223@googlegroups.com>

Dear Group,

Please explain the following in details.

"
def __init__(self,cls):
        self.cls = cls
"

Thanks in Advance.
San


From a24061 at ducksburg.com  Fri Apr 29 05:49:42 2016
From: a24061 at ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 10:49:42 +0100
Subject: Why does pathlib not have is_readable() & things like that?
References: <6474vcx0q6.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
 <1461679044.2467938.590028273.4DEA02AA@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.106.1461679046.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <r8e9vcxf2a.ln2@news.ducksburg.com> <nft3h7$pbt$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.188.1461850479.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <manbvcxjkl.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>

On 2016-04-28, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2016-04-28, Adam Funk <a24061 at ducksburg.com> wrote:
>> On 2016-04-26, Random832 wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016, at 09:30, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>> I recently discovered pathlib in the Python 3 standard library, & find
>>>> it very useful, but I'm a bit surprised that it doesn't offer things
>>>> like is_readable() and is_writable.  Is there a good reason for that?
>>>
>>> Well, one reason would be EAFP. Just try to open the file and see if it
>>> gives you a PermissionError.
>>
>> I understand that in general, but the tool I'm working on here takes a
>> command-line option to specify an output directory, & I'd rather not
>> start processing the data (which involves GETting from a REST service,
>> processing, and PUTting back modifications to the data) only to crash
>> after the first batch because of a user error.
>
> Then open the output file before you do the GET.

I guess I could, but fetching the data actually involves a whole lot
of GET requests (the first one includes cross-references to the URLs
where the rest of the data is found), some BeautifulSoup processing, &
a lot of other processing to produce a big dict, which I then write
out as json using what I think is the best way (output_file is an
instance of pathlib.Path):

    with output_file.open(mode='w', encoding='UTF-8', errors='replace')  as f:
        json.dump(output, f, sort_keys=True, indent=2)

> Or just do os.access("directory/where/you/want/to/open/a/file",os.W_OK)

That's what I'm doing now, but I prefer to give the user the error
message early on.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 05:53:19 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 02:53:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <57232b34$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <877ffhgnyf.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <0d5b5562-7a08-41de-8b84-a13f0792e767@googlegroups.com>
 <57232b34$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <72444f12-784b-47b4-a80c-0ae53cf3b5a3@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 29, 2016 at 3:07:09 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 03:00 pm, Rustom Mody wafted information-rich pheromones
> into the air, where they diffused rapidly:
> > Why replicate and cause annoyance?
> 
> If you don't want to use the functionality, don't.

You asked about calling up pagers!!

JFTR I find git behavior annoying -- as it seems do others -- but Ive figured 
getting round it by calling it with -w (show in web browser) is ok (with me)

With python's help I find it annoying and Ive not figured out how to not get paging


From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 29 05:59:11 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 19:59:11 +1000
Subject: Pythonic style
References: <5720357B.4060009@icloud.com>
 <CALwzidn0SN5yax3bfmTPDTxBvfr+bnVNzeUe3dZYrS9ji2WCtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <572166FA.3020108@icloud.com> <85y47yjxj5.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
 <57217E73.9040907@icloud.com> <572188F8.7010304@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmrkELf4rb+1UgmPwHxmd+wzp6WLxxN+ut4L3xJuHhmqmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.168.1461815768.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <c7ca7770-7dfa-463c-b776-cab472d9f79e@googlegroups.com>
 <540fc958-52d6-6049-75f2-5ee42657688e@mrabarnett.plus.com>
 <mailman.183.1461842191.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <dofpa7Fpm7eU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <57233071$0$1589$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 10:48 am, Gregory Ewing wrote:

> MRAB wrote:
> 
>> Is it worthy of being in the Zen of Python?
> 
> +1. Maybe something along the lines of:
> 
>     Dunder methods are for defining, not calling.
>     Unless you're a dunderhead[1].
> 
> [1] Meant in the sense of an enthusiast, cf. gearhead.



I think that the advice to not call dundermethods directly is excellent
advice, but it doesn't belong in the Zen. Look at the Zen: it's all pretty
abstract:

Beautiful is better than ugly.
Explicit is better than implicit.

etc. There's very little[1] concrete advice in the way of specificities such
as:

- don't use floats for money;
- use namedtuple for the equivalent of a C struct or Pascal record;
- composition should be preferred over inheritance;

etc. "Don't use dunders" is much closer to the second, more specific type of
advice which doesn't really fall into the Zen's bailiwick.

Better suited for the Zen would be:

"Not everything needs to be a one-liner."

which is nicely abstract and also completely useless for deciding which
things should and shouldn't be, as good koans ought to be.




[1] By which I mean none.


-- 
Steven



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Apr 29 07:26:16 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 13:26:16 +0200
Subject: Controlling the passing of data
References: <afa1ab1d-6d6a-421c-9351-c8805cc5fbea@googlegroups.com>
 <nft3s8$3ku$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.189.1461850832.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <cf68e844-441c-4498-a730-0c7b08da1ee9@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nfvgcr$i4d$1@ger.gmane.org>

Sayth Renshaw wrote:

> 
>> 
>> Your actual problem is drowned in too much source code. Can you restate
>> it in English, optionally with a few small snippets of Python?
>> 
>> It is not even clear what the code you provide should accomplish once
>> it's running as desired.
>> 
>> To give at least one code-related advice: You have a few repetitions of
>> the following structure
>> 
>> > meetattrs = ('id', 'venue', 'date', 'rail', 'weather',
>> > 'trackcondition')
>> 
>> >     meet = d('meeting')
>> 
>> >     meetdata = [[meet.eq(i).attr(x)
>> >                  for x in meetattrs] for i in range(len(meet))]
>> 
>> You should move the pieces into a function that works for meetings,
>> clubs, races, and so on. Finally (If I am repeating myself so be it): the
>> occurence of range(len(something)) in your code is a strong indication
>> that you are not using Python the way Guido intended it. Iterate over the
>> `something` directly whenever possible.
> 
> Hi Peter
> 
>> meetattrs = ('id', 'venue', 'date', 'rail', 'weather', 'trackcondition')
> 
> is created to define a list of attr in the XML rather than referencing
> each attr individually I create a list and pass it into
> 
>  >     meetdata = [[meet.eq(i).attr(x)
>> >                  for x in meetattrs] for i in range(len(meet))]
> 
> This list comprehension reads the XML attr by attr using meet =
> d('meeting') as the call to pyquery to locate the class in the XML and
> identify the attr's.

You misunderstood me. I do understand what your code does, I just have no 
idea what you want to do, in terms of the domain, like e. g.

"Print horses with the last three races they took part in."

Why does this matter? Here's an extreme example:

bars = []
for foo in whatever:
   bars.append(foo.baz)

What does this do? The description

"It puts all baz attributes of the items in whatever into a list"

doesn't help. If you say "I want to make a list of all brands in the car 
park I could recommend a change to

brand = set(car.brand for car in car_park)

because a set avoids duplicates. If you say "I want to document my 
achievements for posterity" I would recommend that you print to a file 
rather than append to a list and the original code could be changed to

with open("somefile") as f:
    for achievement in my_achievements:
        print(achievement.description, file=f)


Back to my coding hint: Don't repeat yourself. If you move the pieces

>> > meetattrs = ('id', 'venue', 'date', 'rail', 'weather',
>> > 'trackcondition')
>> 
>> >     meet = d('meeting')
>> 
>> >     meetdata = [[meet.eq(i).attr(x)
>> >                  for x in meetattrs] for i in range(len(meet))]

into a function

def extract_attrs(nodes, attrs):
    return [[nodes.eq(i).attr(name) for name in attrs]
            for i in range(len(nodes))]

You can reuse it for clubs, races, etc.:

meetdata = extract_attrs(d("meeting"), meetattrs)
racedata = extract_attrs(d("race"), raceattrs)

If you put the parts into a dict you can generalize even further:

tables = {
   "meeting": ([], meetattrs),
   "race": ([], raceattrs),
}
for name, (data, attrs) in tables.items():
    data.extend(extract_attrs(d(name), attrs))

> 
> I do apologise for the lack of output, I asked a question about parsing
> that I always seem to get wrong over think and then find the solution
> simpler than I thought.
> 
> The output is 4 tables of the class and selected attributes eg meetattrs =
> ('id', 'venue', 'date', 'rail', 'weather', 'trackcondition') from the
> meeting class of the XML.
> 
> In order to give flexibility and keep the relational nature they have
> defined in the table I found when exporting the nominations section via
> pandas to csv that i had no way to determine which id belonged to each
> race that is there was no race_id in the nominations to relate back to the
> race, and also no meeting id in the raceid to relate it back to the
> meeting.
> So I wanted to traverse all the classes Meeting, Race and Nomination and
> insert the id of the class into its direct children only and since there
> were many races a meeting and many nomnations a race I need to ensure that
> it is the direct children only.
> 
> It was otherwise working as parsed output in code supplied using to push
> to pandas and use its csv write capability.
> 
> So I inserted
> 
>     for race_el in d('race'):
>         race = pq(race_el)
>         race_id = race.attr('id')
> 
>     for nom_el in race.items('nomination'):
>         res.append((pq(nom_el).attr('raceid', race_id)))
> 
> which traverses and inserts the race_id into the child nominations.
> However, my boggles is how to pass this to the list comprehension that was
> working without changing the data from XML or creating another
> intermediate step and variable. Just to parse it as it was but with the
> extra included race_id.

So you want to go from a tree structure to a set of tables that preserves 
the structure by adding foreign keys. You could try a slightly different 
approach, something like

for meeting in meetings:
    meeting_table.append(...meeting attrs...)
    meeting_id = ...
    for race in meeting:
        race_table.append(meeting_id, ...meeting attrs...)
        race_id = ...
        for nomination in race:
            nomination_table.append(race_id, ...nomination attrs...)

I don't know how to spell this in PyQuery -- with lxml you could do 
something like

meeting_table = []
race_table = []
nomination_table = []
tree = lxml.etree.parse(filename)
for meeting in tree.xpath("/meeting"):
    meeting_table.append([meeting.attrib[name] for name in meetattrs])
    meeting_id = meeting.attrib["id"]
    for race in meeting.xpath("./race"):
        race_table.append(
            [meeting_id] + [race.attrib[name] for name in raceattrs])
        race_id = race.attrib["id"]
        for nomination in race.xpath("./nomination"):
            nomination_table.append(
                [race_id]
                + [nomination.attrib[name] for name in horseattrs])

Not as clean and not as general as I would hope -- basically I'm neglecting 
my recommendation from above -- but if it works for you I might take a 
second look later.



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Apr 29 07:36:00 2016
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 13:36 +0200
Subject: Controlling the passing of data
References: <afa1ab1d-6d6a-421c-9351-c8805cc5fbea@googlegroups.com>
 <nft3s8$3ku$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.189.1461850832.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <cf68e844-441c-4498-a730-0c7b08da1ee9@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nfvgv1$rii$1@ger.gmane.org>

Sayth Renshaw wrote:

> 
>> 
>> Your actual problem is drowned in too much source code. Can you restate
>> it in English, optionally with a few small snippets of Python?
>> 
>> It is not even clear what the code you provide should accomplish once
>> it's running as desired.
>> 
>> To give at least one code-related advice: You have a few repetitions of
>> the following structure
>> 
>> > meetattrs = ('id', 'venue', 'date', 'rail', 'weather',
>> > 'trackcondition')
>> 
>> >     meet = d('meeting')
>> 
>> >     meetdata = [[meet.eq(i).attr(x)
>> >                  for x in meetattrs] for i in range(len(meet))]
>> 
>> You should move the pieces into a function that works for meetings,
>> clubs, races, and so on. Finally (If I am repeating myself so be it): the
>> occurence of range(len(something)) in your code is a strong indication
>> that you are not using Python the way Guido intended it. Iterate over the
>> `something` directly whenever possible.
> 
> Hi Peter
> 
>> meetattrs = ('id', 'venue', 'date', 'rail', 'weather', 'trackcondition')
> 
> is created to define a list of attr in the XML rather than referencing
> each attr individually I create a list and pass it into
> 
>  >     meetdata = [[meet.eq(i).attr(x)
>> >                  for x in meetattrs] for i in range(len(meet))]
> 
> This list comprehension reads the XML attr by attr using meet =
> d('meeting') as the call to pyquery to locate the class in the XML and
> identify the attr's.

You misunderstood me. I do understand what your code does, I just have no 
idea what you want to do, in terms of the domain, like e. g.

"Print horses with the last three races they took part in."

Why does this matter? Here's an extreme example:

bars = []
for foo in whatever:
   bars.append(foo.baz)

What does this do? The description

"It puts all baz attributes of the items in whatever into a list"

doesn't help. If you say "I want to make a list of all brands in the car 
park I could recommend a change to

brand = set(car.brand for car in car_park)

because a set avoids duplicates. If you say "I want to document my 
achievements for posterity" I would recommend that you print to a file 
rather than append to a list and the original code could be changed to

with open("somefile") as f:
    for achievement in my_achievements:
        print(achievement.description, file=f)


Back to my coding hint: Don't repeat yourself. If you move the pieces

>> > meetattrs = ('id', 'venue', 'date', 'rail', 'weather',
>> > 'trackcondition')
>> 
>> >     meet = d('meeting')
>> 
>> >     meetdata = [[meet.eq(i).attr(x)
>> >                  for x in meetattrs] for i in range(len(meet))]

into a function

def extract_attrs(nodes, attrs):
    return [[nodes.eq(i).attr(name) for name in attrs]
            for i in range(len(nodes))]

You can reuse it for clubs, races, etc.:

meetdata = extract_attrs(d("meeting"), meetattrs)
racedata = extract_attrs(d("race"), raceattrs)

If you put the parts into a dict you can generalize even further:

tables = {
   "meeting": ([], meetattrs),
   "race": ([], raceattrs),
}
for name, (data, attrs) in tables.items():
    data.extend(extract_attrs(d(name), attrs))

> 
> I do apologise for the lack of output, I asked a question about parsing
> that I always seem to get wrong over think and then find the solution
> simpler than I thought.
> 
> The output is 4 tables of the class and selected attributes eg meetattrs =
> ('id', 'venue', 'date', 'rail', 'weather', 'trackcondition') from the
> meeting class of the XML.
> 
> In order to give flexibility and keep the relational nature they have
> defined in the table I found when exporting the nominations section via
> pandas to csv that i had no way to determine which id belonged to each
> race that is there was no race_id in the nominations to relate back to the
> race, and also no meeting id in the raceid to relate it back to the
> meeting.
> 
> 
> So I wanted to traverse all the classes Meeting, Race and Nomination and
> insert the id of the class into its direct children only and since there
> were many races a meeting and many nomnations a race I need to ensure that
> it is the direct children only.
> 
> It was otherwise working as parsed output in code supplied using to push
> to pandas and use its csv write capability.
> 
> So I inserted
> 
>     for race_el in d('race'):
>         race = pq(race_el)
>         race_id = race.attr('id')
> 
>     for nom_el in race.items('nomination'):
>         res.append((pq(nom_el).attr('raceid', race_id)))
> 
> which traverses and inserts the race_id into the child nominations.
> However, my boggles is how to pass this to the list comprehension that was
> working without changing the data from XML or creating another
> intermediate step and variable. Just to parse it as it was but with the
> extra included race_id.

So you want to go from a tree structure to a set of tables and preserve the 
structural information:

for meeting in meetings
    meeting_table.append(...meeting attributes...)
    meeting_id = ...
    for race in meeting.races:
        race_table.append(meeting_id, ...race attributes...)
        race_id = ...
        for nomination in race.nominations:
            nomination_table.append(race_id, ...nomination attributes...)

I don't know how to spell that in PyQuery, so here's how to do it with lxml:

meeting_table = []
race_table = []
nomination_table = []
tree = lxml.etree.parse(filename)
for meeting in tree.xpath("/meeting"):
    meeting_table.append([meeting.attrib[name] for name in meetattrs])
    meeting_id = meeting.attrib["id"]
    for race in meeting.xpath("./race"):
        race_table.append(
            [meeting_id] + [race.attrib[name] for name in raceattrs])
        race_id = race.attrib["id"]
        for nomination in race.xpath("./nomination"):
            nomination_table.append(
                [race_id]
                + [nomination.attrib[name] for name in horseattrs])

Not as clean and not as general as I would hope -- basically I'm neglecting 
my recommendations from above -- but if it works for you I might have a 
second look later.





From jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi  Fri Apr 29 07:51:05 2016
From: jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:51:05 +0300
Subject: Why does pathlib not have is_readable() & things like that?
References: <6474vcx0q6.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
 <1461679044.2467938.590028273.4DEA02AA@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.106.1461679046.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <r8e9vcxf2a.ln2@news.ducksburg.com> <nft3h7$pbt$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.188.1461850479.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <manbvcxjkl.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
Message-ID: <lf5r3dor5ue.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>

Adam Funk writes:

> On 2016-04-28, Grant Edwards wrote:
>>
>> Then open the output file before you do the GET.
>
> I guess I could, but fetching the data actually involves a whole lot
> of GET requests (the first one includes cross-references to the URLs
> where the rest of the data is found), some BeautifulSoup processing, &
> a lot of other processing to produce a big dict, which I then write
> out as json using what I think is the best way (output_file is an
> instance of pathlib.Path):
>
>     with output_file.open(mode='w', encoding='UTF-8', errors='replace')  as f:
>         json.dump(output, f, sort_keys=True, indent=2)

It doesn't matter how much work it actually is. Make it conceptually a
single unit:

def get_output(): ...

with output_file.open(mode='w',
                      encoding='UTF-8',
                      errors='replace')  as f:
    output = get_output()
    json.dump(output, f,
              sort_keys=True,
              indent=2)

>> Or just do os.access("directory/where/you/want/to/open/a/file",os.W_OK)
>
> That's what I'm doing now, but I prefer to give the user the error
> message early on.

Then do that early on.


From motoom at xs4all.nl  Fri Apr 29 08:29:16 2016
From: motoom at xs4all.nl (Michiel Overtoom)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:29:16 +0200
Subject: def __init__(self,cls):
In-Reply-To: <70f3b5f6-33b7-4dc8-9c30-92fcc1b1f223@googlegroups.com>
References: <70f3b5f6-33b7-4dc8-9c30-92fcc1b1f223@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2BA284BC-814B-47FD-AB2C-ACA45304FD89@xs4all.nl>


> On 2016-04-29, at 11:47, San <santanu01 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear Group, please explain the following in details. Thanks in Advance.
> 
> def __init__(self,cls):
>        self.cls = cls

Is this homework? Why don't you explain it first in your own words, then let us comment on it?

Greetings,





From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 09:17:44 2016
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth Renshaw)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 06:17:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Controlling the passing of data
In-Reply-To: <mailman.218.1461929203.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <afa1ab1d-6d6a-421c-9351-c8805cc5fbea@googlegroups.com>
 <nft3s8$3ku$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.189.1461850832.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <cf68e844-441c-4498-a730-0c7b08da1ee9@googlegroups.com>
 <nfvgcr$i4d$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.218.1461929203.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <03178a33-04cb-491e-8cfb-9e6545fa092d@googlegroups.com>


> because a set avoids duplicates. If you say "I want to document my 
> achievements for posterity" I would recommend that you print to a file 
> rather than append to a list and the original code could be changed to
> 
> with open("somefile") as f:
>     for achievement in my_achievements:
>         print(achievement.description, file=f)
> 
> 
> Back to my coding hint: Don't repeat yourself. If you move the pieces
> 
> >> > meetattrs = ('id', 'venue', 'date', 'rail', 'weather',
> >> > 'trackcondition')
> >> 
> >> >     meet = d('meeting')
> >> 
> >> >     meetdata = [[meet.eq(i).attr(x)
> >> >                  for x in meetattrs] for i in range(len(meet))]
> 
> into a function
> 
> def extract_attrs(nodes, attrs):
>     return [[nodes.eq(i).attr(name) for name in attrs]
>             for i in range(len(nodes))]
> 
> You can reuse it for clubs, races, etc.:
> 
> meetdata = extract_attrs(d("meeting"), meetattrs)
> racedata = extract_attrs(d("race"), raceattrs)
> 
> If you put the parts into a dict you can generalize even further:
> 
> tables = {
>    "meeting": ([], meetattrs),
>    "race": ([], raceattrs),
> }
> for name, (data, attrs) in tables.items():
>     data.extend(extract_attrs(d(name), attrs))
> 

I find that really cool. Reads well to, hadn't considered approaching it that way at all.

> So you want to go from a tree structure to a set of tables that preserves 
> the structure by adding foreign keys. You could try a slightly different 
> approach, something like
> 
> for meeting in meetings:
>     meeting_table.append(...meeting attrs...)
>     meeting_id = ...
>     for race in meeting:
>         race_table.append(meeting_id, ...meeting attrs...)
>         race_id = ...
>         for nomination in race:
>             nomination_table.append(race_id, ...nomination attrs...)
> 
> I don't know how to spell this in PyQuery -- with lxml you could do 
> something like
> 
> meeting_table = []
> race_table = []
> nomination_table = []
> tree = lxml.etree.parse(filename)
> for meeting in tree.xpath("/meeting"):
>     meeting_table.append([meeting.attrib[name] for name in meetattrs])
>     meeting_id = meeting.attrib["id"]
>     for race in meeting.xpath("./race"):
>         race_table.append(
>             [meeting_id] + [race.attrib[name] for name in raceattrs])
>         race_id = race.attrib["id"]
>         for nomination in race.xpath("./nomination"):
>             nomination_table.append(
>                 [race_id]
>                 + [nomination.attrib[name] for name in horseattrs])
> 
> Not as clean and not as general as I would hope -- basically I'm neglecting 
> my recommendation from above -- but if it works for you I might take a 
> second look later.

I need to play around with this just to understand it more, really like it. Might try and implement your advice from before and put it in a function.

Sayth


From martin at linux-ip.net  Fri Apr 29 09:32:54 2016
From: martin at linux-ip.net (Martin A. Brown)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 06:32:54 -0700
Subject: manpage writing [rst, asciidoc, pod] was [Re: What should Python
 apps do when asked to show help?]
In-Reply-To: <5722bb82$0$1600$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nfthhs$klf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461865210.3218352.592571425.2069E4EB@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftjuh$t2b$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.207.1461867295.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8kdshyh.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <nftot6$4ii$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461873085.3251720.592695601.44633E5E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftu4v$3d1$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.214.1461877741.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <5722bb82$0$1600$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604290441080.29512@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>


Hello,

>What is a good place where I can find out more about writing 
>manpage?

I don't know of a single place where manpage authorship is 
particularly documented.  This seems to be one of the common target 
links.  In addition to introducing the breakdown of manpages by 
type (section) and providing some suggestions for content, it 
introduces the *roff markup:

  http://www.schweikhardt.net/man_page_howto.html

It's been many years since I have written that stuff directly.  I 
prefer one of the lightweight, general documentation or markup 
languages.  So, below, I'll mention and give examples for creating 
manpages from reStructuredtext, AsciiDoc and Plain Old 
Documentation.

With the reStructuredText format [0] [1], you can convert an .rst 
file to a manpage using two different document processors; you can 
use sphinx-build from the sphinx-project [2] or rst2man from the 
docutils project.  The outputs are largely the same (as far as I 
can tell).

There's also the AsciiDoc [3] format, which is a near to text and 
reads like text, but has a clear structure.  With the tooling 
(written in Python), you can produce docbook, latex, html and a 
bunch of other output formats.  Oh, and manpages [4], too.  There is 
a tool called 'asciidoc' which processes AsciiDoc formats into a 
variety of backend formats.  The 'a2x' tool converts AsciiDoc 
sources into some other (x) desired output.

If you don't like .rst or AsciiDoc, there's also the Plain Old 
Documentation (POD) format.  This is the oldest tool (of which I'm 
aware) which other than the direct *roff processing tools.  You run 
'pod2man' (written in Perl) on your .pod file.  POD is another dead 
simple documentation language, supported by the pod2man [5] tool.  
For more on the format, read also 'man 1 perlpod'.

sphinx-build: the sphinx documentation system is geared for 
handling project-scoped documentation and provides many additional 
features to reStructuredText.  It can produce all kinds of output 
formats, HTML single-page, help, multipage, texinfo, latex, text, 
epub and ....oh, yeah, manpages.  It's a rich set of tools.

If you wish to use sphinx, I can give you an example .rst file [6] 
which I recently wrote and the following instructions for how to 
process this with sphinx.  When processing docs with sphinx, a 
'conf.py' file is required.  It can be generated with an ancillary 
tool from the sphinx suite:

I know that I always find an example helpful.  So, here are some 
examples to help you launch.

  mkdir sampledir && cd sampledir
  sphinx-quickstart   # -- and answer a bunch of questions
  # -- examine conf.py and adjust to your heart's content
  #    confirm that master_doc is your single document for a manpage
  #    confirm that there's an entry for your document in man_pages
  sphinx-build -b man -d _build/doctrees . _build/man

  # -- or grab the files from my recent project [6] and try yourself

rst2man: even more simply, if you don't need the kitchen sink...

  wget https://gitlab.com/pdftools/pdfposter/raw/develop/pdfposter.rst
  rst2man < pdfposter.rst  > pdfposter.1
  # -- will complain about this, but still produces a manpage
  # <stdin>:10: (ERROR/3) Undefined substitution referenced: "VERSION".
  man ./pdfposter.1

asciidoc (a randomly selected example asciidoc file [7]):

  wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/DavidGamba/grepp/master/grepp.adoc
  a2x -f manpage grepp.adoc  
  man ./grepp.1

perlpod:

  wget https://api.metacpan.org/source/RJBS/perl-5.18.1/pod/perlrun.pod
  pod2man --section 1 < perlrun.pod > perlrun.1
  man ./perlrun.1

I know there are other tools for generating manpages; the 
original *roff tools, visual manpage editors, DocBook, 
help2man, manpage generators from argparse.ArgumentParser 
instances, 

And, of course, make sure to use version control for your 
documentation.  These git manpages may be helpful for the 
uninitiated (joke, joke):

  https://git-man-page-generator.lokaltog.net/  # -- humour!

Good luck,

-Martin

 [0] http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/user/rst/quickref.html
 [1] http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/ref/rst/restructuredtext.html
 [2] http://www.sphinx-doc.org/en/stable/rest.html
 [3] http://www.methods.co.nz/asciidoc/
 [4] http://www.methods.co.nz/asciidoc/chunked/ch24.html
 [5] http://perldoc.perl.org/pod2man.html
 [6] https://raw.githubusercontent.com/tLDP/python-tldp/master/docs/ldptool-man.rst
 [7] https://raw.githubusercontent.com/DavidGamba/grepp/master/grepp.adoc

-- 
Martin A. Brown
http://linux-ip.net/


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Apr 29 10:06:51 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 07:06:51 -0700
Subject: manpage writing [rst, asciidoc, pod] was [Re: What should Python
 apps do when asked to show help?]
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604290441080.29512@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nfthhs$klf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461865210.3218352.592571425.2069E4EB@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftjuh$t2b$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.207.1461867295.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8kdshyh.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <nftot6$4ii$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461873085.3251720.592695601.44633E5E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftu4v$3d1$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.214.1461877741.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <5722bb82$0$1600$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604290441080.29512@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>
Message-ID: <57236A7B.5000203@stoneleaf.us>

Wow.  Thank you for that very informative post!

--
~Ethan~


From eryksun at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 11:09:41 2016
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 10:09:41 -0500
Subject: Why does pathlib not have is_readable() & things like that?
In-Reply-To: <lf5r3dor5ue.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
References: <6474vcx0q6.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
 <1461679044.2467938.590028273.4DEA02AA@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.106.1461679046.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <r8e9vcxf2a.ln2@news.ducksburg.com> <nft3h7$pbt$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.188.1461850479.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <manbvcxjkl.ln2@news.ducksburg.com> <lf5r3dor5ue.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <CACL+1avGZzy8e54RCHTqk4SNULTAcZMuQH_+L3m1OXx=Chs+4Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 6:51 AM, Jussi Piitulainen
<jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi> wrote:
> Adam Funk writes:
>> On 2016-04-28, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>>> Or just do os.access("directory/where/you/want/to/open/a/file",os.W_OK)
>>
>> That's what I'm doing now, but I prefer to give the user the error
>> message early on.
>
> Then do that early on.

Note that on Windows os.access only checks if a file is read-only.
There's a proposed update to check the file security. The patch needs
to be updated and needs to be reworked, but it's a low priority. For
the most part calling os.access isn't recommended.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 11:17:45 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 08:17:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: manpage writing [rst, asciidoc, pod] was [Re: What should Python
 apps do when asked to show help?]
In-Reply-To: <mailman.224.1461938741.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nfthhs$klf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461865210.3218352.592571425.2069E4EB@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftjuh$t2b$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.207.1461867295.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8kdshyh.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <nftot6$4ii$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461873085.3251720.592695601.44633E5E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftu4v$3d1$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.214.1461877741.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <5722bb82$0$1600$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604290441080.29512@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>
 <57236A7B.5000203@stoneleaf.us>
 <mailman.224.1461938741.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d46d842f-89cb-449b-a9f3-ae0603438b59@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 29, 2016 at 7:35:55 PM UTC+5:30, Ethan Furman wrote:
> Wow.  Thank you for that very informative post!
> 
> --
> ~Ethan~

For emacs junkies there is also org-e-man


[1] http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-e-man-documentation.html
[2] https://github.com/tkf/org-mode/blob/master/contrib/lisp/org-e-man.el

[No I havent used this but I use org mode heavily]


From michael.selik at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 14:23:21 2016
From: michael.selik at gmail.com (Michael Selik)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:23:21 +0000
Subject: Query regarding python 2.7.11 release
In-Reply-To: <f41d232e4bb54ee0a51f9378c62df98e@XCH-RTP-019.cisco.com>
References: <f41d232e4bb54ee0a51f9378c62df98e@XCH-RTP-019.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <CAGgTfkPnW+1rFEDQ6qrJ0OAiWBvpGbB+LxY6u7AxP5z0TCy_9Q@mail.gmail.com>

>From searching bugs.python.org, I see that issues referencing CVE-2014-7185,
 CVE-2013-1752, and CVE-2014-1912 have all been marked as closed. I don't
see any issues referencing CVE-2014-4650 via Python's bug tracker, but did
spot it on Red Hat's. It appears to be related to issue 21766 (
http://bugs.python.org/issue21766) which has been marked closed, fixed.

So, yes, looks like they're all fixed.

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 3:26 AM Gaurav Rastogi -X (garastog - ARICENT
TECHNOLOGIES MAURIITIUS LIMITED at Cisco) <garastog at cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We are currently using Python 2.6.7 in our product.
> We have received below vulnerabilities from field:
>
> CVE-2014-7185
>
> Integer overflow in bufferobject.c in Python before 2.7.8 allows
> context-dependent attackers to
> obtain sensitive information from process memory via a large size and
> offset in a "buffer" function.
>
> CVE-2013-1752
>
> python: multiple unbound readline() DoS flaws in python stdlib
>
> CVE-2014-1912
>
> python: buffer overflow in socket.recvfrom_into()
>
> CVE-2014-4650
>
> It was discovered that the CGIHTTPServer module incorrectly handled URL
> encoded paths.
> A remote attacker could use this flaw to execute scripts outside of the
> cgi-bin directory, or disclose source of scripts in the cgi-bin directory
>
>
> Currently I can see the 2.7.11 is the latest release as per the below link:
> https://www.python.org/downloads/
>
> Could you please suggest if the above mentioned vulnerabilities are
> resolved in the latest release?
>
> Regards
> Gaurav
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From zljubisic at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 15:21:36 2016
From: zljubisic at gmail.com (zljubisic at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:21:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to download a flash video from this site?
Message-ID: <0c9d5a3b-ee58-49a6-973a-6125473fea06@googlegroups.com>

Hi, 

I am looking for a way to download a flash video from the page:

https://hrti.hrt.hr/#/video/show/2203605/trebizat-prica-o-jednoj-vodi-i-jednom-narodu-dokumentarni-film

The html code bellow the page is fairly simple, but I can't figure out how to get the file.

In case somebody have an idea, you can login to the site with:

Username: gluperegistarcije at yahoo.com
Password: public

Regards.


From andrea.gavana at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 15:45:58 2016
From: andrea.gavana at gmail.com (andrea.gavana at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:45:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Compiling extensions on Python 2.7, Windows 10 64 bit
Message-ID: <a18dab90-3183-4389-bccf-dbbbae69c6dd@googlegroups.com>

Dear list,

    I have been trying to compile wxPython Phoenix (https://github.com/wxWidgets/Phoenix) from source on Windows 10 64 bit, Python 2.7 64 bit, using the very handy Microsoft Visual C++ Compiler for Python 2.7 (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=44266).

I started with Python 2.7.8, then wiped out that installation and used Python 2.7.11: cleaned the build directory, everything, and rebuilt the Phoenix modules from scratch.

Upon starting the Phoenix demo, I got the same error message I had with Python 2.7.8:

D:\MyProjects\Phoenix\demo>python Main.py
<type 'str'>
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wxPhoenix\wx\core.py", line 1955, in Notify
    self.notify()
  File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wxPhoenix\wx\core.py", line 3034, in Notify
    self.result = self.callable(*self.args, **self.kwargs)
  File "Main.py", line 2601, in ShowMain
    frame = wxPythonDemo(None, "wxPython: (A Demonstration)")
  File "Main.py", line 1531, in __init__
    self.SetOverview(self.overviewText, mainOverview)
  File "Main.py", line 2130, in SetOverview
    self.nb.SetPageText(0, os.path.split(name)[1])
SystemError: ..\Objects\longobject.c:998: bad argument to internal function

The error message refers (apparently) to this Python bug:

https://bugs.python.org/issue23842

But I assumed that it had been fixed waaaaay before 2.7.11. Now I am stuck and I have no idea on what to try next.

Does anyone have suggestions/comments on where I should look for/what I should do/what I should change in order to get the extension running on Python 2.7?

Thank you in advance for your suggestions :-) .

Andrea.


From ikorot01 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 16:24:57 2016
From: ikorot01 at gmail.com (Igor Korot)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:24:57 -0400
Subject: Compiling extensions on Python 2.7, Windows 10 64 bit
In-Reply-To: <a18dab90-3183-4389-bccf-dbbbae69c6dd@googlegroups.com>
References: <a18dab90-3183-4389-bccf-dbbbae69c6dd@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FnnTz+ti4tov5UjRtmcKVG8zkGf5siEx7SYuRNsCm9OevpnQ@mail.gmail.com>

Andrea,

On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:45 PM,  <andrea.gavana at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear list,
>
>     I have been trying to compile wxPython Phoenix (https://github.com/wxWidgets/Phoenix) from source on Windows 10 64 bit, Python 2.7 64 bit, using the very handy Microsoft Visual C++ Compiler for Python 2.7 (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=44266).
>
> I started with Python 2.7.8, then wiped out that installation and used Python 2.7.11: cleaned the build directory, everything, and rebuilt the Phoenix modules from scratch.
>
> Upon starting the Phoenix demo, I got the same error message I had with Python 2.7.8:
>
> D:\MyProjects\Phoenix\demo>python Main.py
> <type 'str'>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wxPhoenix\wx\core.py", line 1955, in Notify
>     self.notify()
>   File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wxPhoenix\wx\core.py", line 3034, in Notify
>     self.result = self.callable(*self.args, **self.kwargs)
>   File "Main.py", line 2601, in ShowMain
>     frame = wxPythonDemo(None, "wxPython: (A Demonstration)")
>   File "Main.py", line 1531, in __init__
>     self.SetOverview(self.overviewText, mainOverview)
>   File "Main.py", line 2130, in SetOverview
>     self.nb.SetPageText(0, os.path.split(name)[1])
> SystemError: ..\Objects\longobject.c:998: bad argument to internal function
>
> The error message refers (apparently) to this Python bug:
>
> https://bugs.python.org/issue23842
>
> But I assumed that it had been fixed waaaaay before 2.7.11. Now I am stuck and I have no idea on what to try next.
>
> Does anyone have suggestions/comments on where I should look for/what I should do/what I should change in order to get the extension running on Python 2.7?
>
> Thank you in advance for your suggestions :-)

Did you try with python 3.x?

IIUC, Phoenix should be made for python 3.x, and classic is for 2.7 series.

Thank you.
.
>
> Andrea.
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From robertvstepp at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 16:26:43 2016
From: robertvstepp at gmail.com (boB Stepp)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 15:26:43 -0500
Subject: Python path and append
In-Reply-To: <571ec99c$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
 <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i@4ax.com>
 <nflnc1$7a4$1@dont-email.me>
 <n5qshb5tmq4gk6nvqmad44lb523ouoiji5@4ax.com>
 <571ec99c$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CANDiX9JNFDYXR8+d-FzfxPvPRF2QKsu5n-nShDU6xrsogwXyiQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 8:51 PM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:

> See here for the *start* of a more professional approach:
>
> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/579097-safely-and-atomically-write-to-a-file/

What else would I need to know/consider in order to have a *complete*
professional approach?



-- 
boB


From andrea.gavana at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 16:27:25 2016
From: andrea.gavana at gmail.com (Andrea Gavana)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 22:27:25 +0200
Subject: Compiling extensions on Python 2.7, Windows 10 64 bit
In-Reply-To: <CA+FnnTz+ti4tov5UjRtmcKVG8zkGf5siEx7SYuRNsCm9OevpnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a18dab90-3183-4389-bccf-dbbbae69c6dd@googlegroups.com>
 <CA+FnnTz+ti4tov5UjRtmcKVG8zkGf5siEx7SYuRNsCm9OevpnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEf70bxOZ=4QEeaUCZR0mV4ZjgFmsYPfDkphtLzL_9nTTisZ5Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

On Friday, 29 April 2016, Igor Korot <ikorot01 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Andrea,
>
> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:45 PM,  <andrea.gavana at gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> wrote:
> > Dear list,
> >
> >     I have been trying to compile wxPython Phoenix (
> https://github.com/wxWidgets/Phoenix) from source on Windows 10 64 bit,
> Python 2.7 64 bit, using the very handy Microsoft Visual C++ Compiler for
> Python 2.7 (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=44266
> ).
> >
> > I started with Python 2.7.8, then wiped out that installation and used
> Python 2.7.11: cleaned the build directory, everything, and rebuilt the
> Phoenix modules from scratch.
> >
> > Upon starting the Phoenix demo, I got the same error message I had with
> Python 2.7.8:
> >
> > D:\MyProjects\Phoenix\demo>python Main.py
> > <type 'str'>
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wxPhoenix\wx\core.py", line 1955,
> in Notify
> >     self.notify()
> >   File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wxPhoenix\wx\core.py", line 3034,
> in Notify
> >     self.result = self.callable(*self.args, **self.kwargs)
> >   File "Main.py", line 2601, in ShowMain
> >     frame = wxPythonDemo(None, "wxPython: (A Demonstration)")
> >   File "Main.py", line 1531, in __init__
> >     self.SetOverview(self.overviewText, mainOverview)
> >   File "Main.py", line 2130, in SetOverview
> >     self.nb.SetPageText(0, os.path.split(name)[1])
> > SystemError: ..\Objects\longobject.c:998: bad argument to internal
> function
> >
> > The error message refers (apparently) to this Python bug:
> >
> > https://bugs.python.org/issue23842
> >
> > But I assumed that it had been fixed waaaaay before 2.7.11. Now I am
> stuck and I have no idea on what to try next.
> >
> > Does anyone have suggestions/comments on where I should look for/what I
> should do/what I should change in order to get the extension running on
> Python 2.7?
> >
> > Thank you in advance for your suggestions :-)
>
> Did you try with python 3.x?
>
> IIUC, Phoenix should be made for python 3.x, and classic is for 2.7 series.
>
>

No, Phoenix is meant to work on Python 2 and 3 at the same time. That's the
very reason it was created.

Andrea.



--


From ikorot01 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 16:28:59 2016
From: ikorot01 at gmail.com (Igor Korot)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:28:59 -0400
Subject: Compiling extensions on Python 2.7, Windows 10 64 bit
In-Reply-To: <CAEf70bxOZ=4QEeaUCZR0mV4ZjgFmsYPfDkphtLzL_9nTTisZ5Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a18dab90-3183-4389-bccf-dbbbae69c6dd@googlegroups.com>
 <CA+FnnTz+ti4tov5UjRtmcKVG8zkGf5siEx7SYuRNsCm9OevpnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEf70bxOZ=4QEeaUCZR0mV4ZjgFmsYPfDkphtLzL_9nTTisZ5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+FnnTzhB9EhJHhVq3iX1o23=kVbRq5EZUF+HFh2p6PTZFd4Qg@mail.gmail.com>

Andrea,

On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 4:27 PM, Andrea Gavana <andrea.gavana at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> On Friday, 29 April 2016, Igor Korot <ikorot01 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Andrea,
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:45 PM,  <andrea.gavana at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Dear list,
>> >
>> >     I have been trying to compile wxPython Phoenix
>> > (https://github.com/wxWidgets/Phoenix) from source on Windows 10 64 bit,
>> > Python 2.7 64 bit, using the very handy Microsoft Visual C++ Compiler for
>> > Python 2.7 (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=44266).
>> >
>> > I started with Python 2.7.8, then wiped out that installation and used
>> > Python 2.7.11: cleaned the build directory, everything, and rebuilt the
>> > Phoenix modules from scratch.
>> >
>> > Upon starting the Phoenix demo, I got the same error message I had with
>> > Python 2.7.8:
>> >
>> > D:\MyProjects\Phoenix\demo>python Main.py
>> > <type 'str'>
>> > Traceback (most recent call last):
>> >   File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wxPhoenix\wx\core.py", line 1955,
>> > in Notify
>> >     self.notify()
>> >   File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wxPhoenix\wx\core.py", line 3034,
>> > in Notify
>> >     self.result = self.callable(*self.args, **self.kwargs)
>> >   File "Main.py", line 2601, in ShowMain
>> >     frame = wxPythonDemo(None, "wxPython: (A Demonstration)")
>> >   File "Main.py", line 1531, in __init__
>> >     self.SetOverview(self.overviewText, mainOverview)
>> >   File "Main.py", line 2130, in SetOverview
>> >     self.nb.SetPageText(0, os.path.split(name)[1])
>> > SystemError: ..\Objects\longobject.c:998: bad argument to internal
>> > function
>> >
>> > The error message refers (apparently) to this Python bug:
>> >
>> > https://bugs.python.org/issue23842
>> >
>> > But I assumed that it had been fixed waaaaay before 2.7.11. Now I am
>> > stuck and I have no idea on what to try next.
>> >
>> > Does anyone have suggestions/comments on where I should look for/what I
>> > should do/what I should change in order to get the extension running on
>> > Python 2.7?
>> >
>> > Thank you in advance for your suggestions :-)
>>
>> Did you try with python 3.x?
>>
>> IIUC, Phoenix should be made for python 3.x, and classic is for 2.7
>> series.
>>
>
>
> No, Phoenix is meant to work on Python 2 and 3 at the same time. That's the
> very reason it was created.

But is it compiling with python 3.x?
Because the bug should be definitely fixed there.

Thank you.

>
> Andrea.
>
>
>
> --
>


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 16:39:54 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 06:39:54 +1000
Subject: How to download a flash video from this site?
In-Reply-To: <0c9d5a3b-ee58-49a6-973a-6125473fea06@googlegroups.com>
References: <0c9d5a3b-ee58-49a6-973a-6125473fea06@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpFrfNdsvFLS3-xj40JwRXwyQ+Yu96QK+7RYQ_Bkerf0Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 5:21 AM,  <zljubisic at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am looking for a way to download a flash video from the page:
>
> https://hrti.hrt.hr/#/video/show/2203605/trebizat-prica-o-jednoj-vodi-i-jednom-narodu-dokumentarni-film
>
> The html code bellow the page is fairly simple, but I can't figure out how to get the file.

Since you're asking on this list, I'll assume you're using Beautiful
Soup and/or youtube-dl. You'll need to go into more detail about what
you're trying to do, and where the Python problem is.

ChrisA


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Fri Apr 29 18:29:38 2016
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Fetchinson .)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 00:29:38 +0200
Subject: web facing static text db
In-Reply-To: <CADjSo4QJdxFP0nG1dwGZzRN8xKOSoiwdzRW3E0_SxBi65GcJdQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADjSo4QJdxFP0nG1dwGZzRN8xKOSoiwdzRW3E0_SxBi65GcJdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADjSo4TuRB6Fx4ExK9Z+HYMfTfwPAr6wEqAArnwTNza6dje9bQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,

I have a very specific set of requirements for a task and was
wondering if anyone had good suggestions for the best set of tools:

* store text documents (about 100000 pages)
* the data set is static (i.e. only lookups are performed, no delete,
no edit, no addition)
* only one operation required: lookup of pages by matching words in them
* very simple web frontend for querying the words to be matched
* no authentication or authorization, frontend completely public
* deployment at webfaction
* deadline: yesterday :)

Which web framework and db engine would you recommend?

So far I'm familiar with turbogears but would be willing to learn
anything if sufficiently basic since my needs are pretty basic (I
think).

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 19:23:30 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 09:23:30 +1000
Subject: web facing static text db
In-Reply-To: <CADjSo4TuRB6Fx4ExK9Z+HYMfTfwPAr6wEqAArnwTNza6dje9bQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADjSo4QJdxFP0nG1dwGZzRN8xKOSoiwdzRW3E0_SxBi65GcJdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADjSo4TuRB6Fx4ExK9Z+HYMfTfwPAr6wEqAArnwTNza6dje9bQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpzPphezNPUDg=6aocdC5jjKbysBc28Ft46O+pCWByHrA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 8:29 AM, Fetchinson . via Python-list
<python-list at python.org> wrote:
> * store text documents (about 100000 pages)
> * the data set is static (i.e. only lookups are performed, no delete,
> no edit, no addition)
> * only one operation required: lookup of pages by matching words in them
> * very simple web frontend for querying the words to be matched
> * no authentication or authorization, frontend completely public
> * deployment at webfaction
> * deadline: yesterday :)
>
> Which web framework and db engine would you recommend?

PostgreSQL has decent facilities for text search. You can access that
from Python using the psycopg2 module, and use something like Flask to
help you put together your front end.

ChrisA


From fanjianling at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 19:33:12 2016
From: fanjianling at gmail.com (Jianling Fan)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 17:33:12 -0600
Subject: about special characters
Message-ID: <CAJ7mry+o=PRGtM46HPGdNVqaowy3tmheJKu38nRy4y_QEjqV-w@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

I am trying to use python 27 copying some of my folders and files to
another directory.
My code works good for other files but I have some problem to copy
files that have some special characters in the filename. like
filenames contain Greek "?"  or latin "?".
it always gave a error that "No such file or directory:"

Any help will be appreciate!
Thanks!

Regards,

Jianling


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Apr 29 19:52:25 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 09:52:25 +1000
Subject: about special characters
References: <CAJ7mry+o=PRGtM46HPGdNVqaowy3tmheJKu38nRy4y_QEjqV-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85zischt1i.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Jianling Fan <fanjianling at gmail.com> writes:

> I am trying to use python 27 copying some of my folders and files to
> another directory.

(There has never been a Python 27. I assume Python 2.7 is what you meant.)

> My code works good for other files but I have some problem to copy
> files that have some special characters in the filename. like
> filenames contain Greek "?" or latin "?".

You may already know that Python 2 handles international text a lot less
consistently than Python 3.

Is it at all feasible for you to use Python 3 instead? Text handling is
specifically a big advantage of Python 3.

> it always gave a error that "No such file or directory:"

Please give a complete, small example:

* The actual filenames.

* The exact filesystem encoding that filesystem uses. Be sure to verify that!

* A very small, but complete, Python program which exhibits the
  behaviour. We will need to be able to run the same program.

* The complete error output (the full traceback).

-- 
 \       ?Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual |
  `\       profit without individual responsibility.? ?Ambrose Bierce, |
_o__)                                   _The Devil's Dictionary_, 1906 |
Ben Finney



From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 19:53:03 2016
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 23:53:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why does pathlib not have is_readable() & things like that?
References: <6474vcx0q6.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>
 <1461679044.2467938.590028273.4DEA02AA@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.106.1461679046.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <r8e9vcxf2a.ln2@news.ducksburg.com> <nft3h7$pbt$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.188.1461850479.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <manbvcxjkl.ln2@news.ducksburg.com> <lf5r3dor5ue.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi>
 <CACL+1avGZzy8e54RCHTqk4SNULTAcZMuQH_+L3m1OXx=Chs+4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ng0s4v$c73$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2016-04-29, eryk sun <eryksun at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 6:51 AM, Jussi Piitulainen
><jussi.piitulainen at helsinki.fi> wrote:
>> Adam Funk writes:
>>> On 2016-04-28, Grant Edwards wrote:
>>
>>>> Or just do os.access("directory/where/you/want/to/open/a/file",os.W_OK)
>>>
>>> That's what I'm doing now, but I prefer to give the user the error
>>> message early on.
>>
>> Then do that early on.
>
> Note that on Windows os.access only checks if a file is read-only.
> There's a proposed update to check the file security. The patch needs
> to be updated and needs to be reworked, but it's a low priority. For
> the most part calling os.access isn't recommended.

I'm sure there are probably other ways that it fails also.  That's why
it's almost always simpler and better to just open the file in write
mode and see if it works.

--
Grant




From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Apr 29 20:32:35 2016
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 01:32:35 +0100
Subject: about special characters
In-Reply-To: <85zischt1i.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <CAJ7mry+o=PRGtM46HPGdNVqaowy3tmheJKu38nRy4y_QEjqV-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <85zischt1i.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <77665750-2d18-c0a0-1777-40139a5132c3@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-30 00:52, Ben Finney wrote:
> Jianling Fan <fanjianling at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I am trying to use python 27 copying some of my folders and files to
>> another directory.
>
> (There has never been a Python 27. I assume Python 2.7 is what you meant.)
>
>> My code works good for other files but I have some problem to copy
>> files that have some special characters in the filename. like
>> filenames contain Greek "?" or latin "?".
>
> You may already know that Python 2 handles international text a lot less
> consistently than Python 3.
>
> Is it at all feasible for you to use Python 3 instead? Text handling is
> specifically a big advantage of Python 3.
>
>> it always gave a error that "No such file or directory:"
>
> Please give a complete, small example:
>
> * The actual filenames.
>
> * The exact filesystem encoding that filesystem uses. Be sure to verify that!
>
> * A very small, but complete, Python program which exhibits the
>   behaviour. We will need to be able to run the same program.
>
> * The complete error output (the full traceback).
>
It might be a Unicode problem, i.e. trying to work with bytestrings
(str) instead of Unicode strings (unicode) and using the wrong encoding.


From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 29 20:35:57 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 10:35:57 +1000
Subject: def __init__(self,cls):
References: <70f3b5f6-33b7-4dc8-9c30-92fcc1b1f223@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5723fdf0$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 07:47 pm, San wrote:

> Dear Group,
> 
> Please explain the following in details.
> 
> "
> def __init__(self,cls):
>         self.cls = cls


The answer is the same as the answer you were given when you asked this
question on the tutor mailing list. Did you read the answers you were given
there?

Your question:

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2016-April/108689.html


My answer then:

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2016-April/108707.html


The difference here is that you take a single argument called "cls".



-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 29 20:56:57 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 10:56:57 +1000
Subject: about special characters
References: <CAJ7mry+o=PRGtM46HPGdNVqaowy3tmheJKu38nRy4y_QEjqV-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <85zischt1i.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.235.1461973955.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <572402db$0$1583$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 09:52 am, Ben Finney wrote:

> Jianling Fan <fanjianling at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> I am trying to use python 27 copying some of my folders and files to
>> another directory.
> 
> (There has never been a Python 27. I assume Python 2.7 is what you meant.)

I believe that Python X.Y shows up as "PythonXY" under Windows.



-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 29 21:01:17 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:01:17 +1000
Subject: about special characters
References: <CAJ7mry+o=PRGtM46HPGdNVqaowy3tmheJKu38nRy4y_QEjqV-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.234.1461973268.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <572403de$0$1601$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 09:33 am, Jianling Fan wrote:

> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am trying to use python 27 copying some of my folders and files to
> another directory.
> My code works good for other files but I have some problem to copy
> files that have some special characters in the filename. like
> filenames contain Greek "?"  or latin "?".
> it always gave a error that "No such file or directory:"
> 
> Any help will be appreciate!

Please put yourself in our shoes. Read your message above, and, imagine that
you know NOTHING else about your program than what you write above. What
answer would you give?

Please tell us what you have actually done. How do you copy the files? How
do you enter the file names? What OS are you using?



-- 
Steven



From christopher_reimer at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 29 21:14:45 2016
From: christopher_reimer at yahoo.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:14:45 -0700
Subject: Not x.islower() Versus x.isupper Output Results
Message-ID: <57240705.3060003@yahoo.com>

Greetings,

I was playing around with a piece of code to remove lowercase letters 
and leave behind uppercase letters from a string when I got unexpected 
results.

     string = 'Whiskey Tango Foxtrot'

     list(filter((lambda x: not x.islower()), string))

     ['W', ' ', 'T', ' ', 'F']

Note the space characters in the list.

     list(filter((lambda x: x.isupper()), string))

     ['W', 'T', 'F']

Note that there are no space characters in the list.

Shouldn't the results between 'not x.islower()' and 'x.isupper()' be 
identical?

The final form of this code is this:

     list(filter(str.isupper, string))

     ['W', 'T', 'F']

Thank you,

Chris R.





From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Fri Apr 29 21:17:34 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:17:34 -0700
Subject: Not x.islower() has different output than x.isupper() in list
 output...
Message-ID: <572407AE.1070703@icloud.com>

Greetings,

I was playing around with a piece of code to remove lowercase letters 
and leave behind uppercase letters from a string when I got unexpected 
results.

     string = 'Whiskey Tango Foxtrot'

     list(filter((lambda x: not x.islower()), string))

     ['W', ' ', 'T', ' ', 'F']

Note the space characters in the list.

     list(filter((lambda x: x.isupper()), string))

     ['W', 'T', 'F']

Note that there are no space characters in the list.

Shouldn't the results between 'not x.islower()' and 'x.isupper()' be 
identical?

The final form of this code is this:

     list(filter(str.isupper, string))

     ['W', 'T', 'F']

Thank you,

Chris R.




From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 29 21:20:21 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:20:21 +1000
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <877ffhgnyf.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <0d5b5562-7a08-41de-8b84-a13f0792e767@googlegroups.com>
 <57232b34$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <72444f12-784b-47b4-a80c-0ae53cf3b5a3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <57240856$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 07:53 pm, Rustom Mody wrote:

> On Friday, April 29, 2016 at 3:07:09 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 03:00 pm, Rustom Mody wafted information-rich
>> pheromones into the air, where they diffused rapidly:
>> > Why replicate and cause annoyance?
>> 
>> If you don't want to use the functionality, don't.
> 
> You asked about calling up pagers!!

Right. And options -h/--help will behave exactly as people have requested,
by printing to stdout.


> JFTR I find git behavior annoying -- as it seems do others

`git --help` behaves as the Unix standard: it prints help output to stdout.
Is that the annoying behaviour?

`git help <command>` and `git <command> --help` call `man`. Is that the
annoying behaviour? Then presumably `man` is also annoying, and the advise
I was given to just use man pages is bad advice.


> -- but Ive 
> figured getting round it by calling it with -w (show in web browser) is ok
> (with me)

You would rather output be shown in a web browser than paged in your
terminal? That's weird, but okay, whatever floats your boat.


> With python's help I find it annoying and Ive not figured out how to not
> get paging

o_O

Okay, now I'm feeling as if you had said "I find it annoying to be fit and
healthy, I've not found a way to feel sufficiently sick, tired and
out-of-shape all the time."

But I see your point. The pydoc documentation itself is lacking. But from
reading the source code, I see that if you set the PAGER environment
variable to your preferred pager, it will use that. So setting it to "cat"
should work. I've just tested this under Linux, and it works for me:


[steve at ando ~]$ PAGER=cat python3.3
Python 3.3.0rc3 (default, Sep 27 2012, 18:44:58)
[GCC 4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-52)] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
py> help(len)
Help on built-in function len in module builtins:

len(...)
    len(object) -> integer

    Return the number of items of a sequence or mapping.

py>



-- 
Steven



From me at ixokai.io  Fri Apr 29 21:29:57 2016
From: me at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:29:57 -0700
Subject: Not x.islower() has different output than x.isupper() in list
 output...
In-Reply-To: <572407AE.1070703@icloud.com>
References: <572407AE.1070703@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1461979797.3824480.593944273.0B8D8DF3@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Fri, Apr 29, 2016, at 06:17 PM, Christopher Reimer wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> I was playing around with a piece of code to remove lowercase letters 
> and leave behind uppercase letters from a string when I got unexpected 
> results.
> 
>      string = 'Whiskey Tango Foxtrot'
> 
>      list(filter((lambda x: not x.islower()), string))
> 
>      ['W', ' ', 'T', ' ', 'F']
> 
> Note the space characters in the list.
> 
>      list(filter((lambda x: x.isupper()), string))
> 
>      ['W', 'T', 'F']
> 
> Note that there are no space characters in the list.
> 

> Shouldn't the results between 'not x.islower()' and 'x.isupper()' be 
> identical?

Absolutely not. There are characters which are neither uppercase or
lowercase: specifically, whitespace in your situation. 

"x.islower()" is true for everything that is lowercase, and false for
everything else. (Including things which have no case). If you invert
with not, then its false for everything that is lowercase, but true for
everything else: including things which have no case.

"x.isupper()" is true for everything that is uppercase, and false for
everything else. This is therefore a narrower test then "not
x.islower()"

x.isupper() is a narrower, more specific test then "not x.islower()". If
you used "not x.isupper()" you'd get the whitespace in it too (along
with all the lower case characters). 

If isupper/islower were perfect opposites of each-other, there'd be no
need for both. But since characters can be upper, lower, or *neither*,
you run into this situation. 

-- 
Stephen Hansen
  m e @ i x o k a i  . i o


From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 29 21:31:23 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:31:23 +1000
Subject: Not x.islower() Versus x.isupper Output Results
References: <57240705.3060003@yahoo.com>
 <mailman.238.1461978893.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57240aec$0$1615$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:14 am, Christopher Reimer wrote:

> Shouldn't the results between 'not x.islower()' and 'x.isupper()' be
> identical?

Of course not.

py> "2 #".islower(), "2 #".isupper()
(False, False)

py> not "2 #".islower(), "2 #".isupper()
(True, False)

"Is Lower" versus "Is Upper" is not a dichotomy. There are:

- lowercase characters, like "abc"
- uppercase characters, like "ABC"
- characters which are neither lowercase nor uppercase, like "2 #"

In unicode, there are also:

- titlecase characters, like "???"

If those characters don't show up for you, they are:

U+01C5  LATIN CAPITAL LETTER D WITH SMALL LETTER Z WITH CARON
U+01C8  LATIN CAPITAL LETTER L WITH SMALL LETTER J
U+1FFC  GREEK CAPITAL LETTER OMEGA WITH PROSGEGRAMMENI


So not islower() is very different from isupper.




-- 
Steven



From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 29 21:44:52 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:44:52 +1000
Subject: Python path and append
References: <smbdhb5kjje2oandna4vj5udku9gh1h9oa@4ax.com>
 <27nshbp40p1llr231dqm31p754tvurkb8i@4ax.com> <nflnc1$7a4$1@dont-email.me>
 <n5qshb5tmq4gk6nvqmad44lb523ouoiji5@4ax.com>
 <571ec99c$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CANDiX9JNFDYXR8+d-FzfxPvPRF2QKsu5n-nShDU6xrsogwXyiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.228.1461961612.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57240e15$0$1607$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 06:26 am, boB Stepp wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 8:51 PM, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info>
> wrote:
> 
>> See here for the *start* of a more professional approach:
>>
>>
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/579097-safely-and-atomically-write-to-a-file/
> 
> What else would I need to know/consider in order to have a *complete*
> professional approach?

When I know, I'll tell you.

I think the answer depends in part on what you're trying to do. The
requirements for, say, an ACID-compliant database are much heavier than for
most applications. As far as regular applications go, I'd like to see:

- the above tested and debugged for Windows and MacOS;

- should it save the previous version of the file?

- if so, how many backup files should it keep?

- should it try to sync and flush the disk on saving the file?

- anything I haven't thought of?


Some of those (like the keeping of backups) is probably something that
should be given as an option to the end-user.


-- 
Steven



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Apr 29 21:48:58 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:48:58 +1000
Subject: about special characters
References: <CAJ7mry+o=PRGtM46HPGdNVqaowy3tmheJKu38nRy4y_QEjqV-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <85zischt1i.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.235.1461973955.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <572402db$0$1583$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <85vb2zj27p.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> writes:

> On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 09:52 am, Ben Finney wrote:
>
> > (There has never been a Python 27. I assume Python 2.7 is what you
> > meant.)
>
> I believe that Python X.Y shows up as "PythonXY" under Windows.

Then that's a bug which should be fixed, IMO. An MS Windows user (i.e.,
not me) would be well placed to describe the behaviour in a bug report.

-- 
 \        ?Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so |
  `\     why should they care about it?? ?Thomas Hesse, Sony BMG, 2006 |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 29 21:51:13 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:51:13 +1000
Subject: Not x.islower() Versus x.isupper Output Results
References: <57240705.3060003@yahoo.com>
 <mailman.238.1461978893.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <57240aec$0$1615$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <57240f92$0$1606$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:31 am, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> In unicode, there are also:
> 
> - titlecase characters, like "???"

To be clear, each of those three characters is considered titlecased
individually. The three of them together is not considered a title-cased
string.

"Is Title" is not just for Unicode. In Python 2, strings (ASCII byte
strings) also have an istitle() method:

py> "Dz".istitle()
True
py> "DZ".istitle()
False



-- 
Steven



From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Fri Apr 29 21:55:35 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:55:35 -0700
Subject: Not x.islower() has different output than x.isupper() in list
 output...
In-Reply-To: <1461979797.3824480.593944273.0B8D8DF3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <572407AE.1070703@icloud.com>
 <1461979797.3824480.593944273.0B8D8DF3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <57241097.7020801@icloud.com>

On 4/29/2016 6:29 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> If isupper/islower were perfect opposites of each-other, there'd be no 
> need for both. But since characters can be upper, lower, or *neither*, 
> you run into this situation.

Based upon the official documentation, I was expecting perfect opposites.

str.islower(): "Return true if all cased characters [4] in the string 
are lowercase and there is at least one cased character, false otherwise."

https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html?highlight=islower#str.islower

str.isupper(): "Return true if all cased characters [4] in the string 
are uppercase and there is at least one cased character, false otherwise."

https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html?highlight=isupper#str.isupper

Here's the footnote that may or not be relevant to this discussion: "[4] 
Cased characters are those with general category property being one of 
?Lu? (Letter, uppercase), ?Ll? (Letter, lowercase), or ?Lt? (Letter, 
titlecase)."

A bug in the docs?

Thank you,

Chris R.




From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Apr 29 22:09:13 2016
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 19:09:13 -0700
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <57240856$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <877ffhgnyf.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <0d5b5562-7a08-41de-8b84-a13f0792e767@googlegroups.com>
 <57232b34$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <72444f12-784b-47b4-a80c-0ae53cf3b5a3@googlegroups.com>
 <57240856$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <572413C9.2070405@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/29/2016 06:20 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 07:53 pm, Rustom Mody wrote:


>> JFTR I find git behavior annoying -- as it seems do others
>
> `git --help` behaves as the Unix standard: it prints help output to stdout.
> Is that the annoying behaviour?

No.

> `git help <command>` and `git <command> --help` call `man`. Is that the
> annoying behaviour?

Yes.

> Then presumably `man` is also annoying,

No.

> and the advise I was given to just  use man pages is bad advice.

The advice to call man from --help is bad; the advice to have a man page 
for use with man is not.

>> With python's help I find it annoying and Ive not figured out how to not
>> get paging
>
> o_O
>
> Okay, now I'm feeling as if you had said "I find it annoying to be fit and
> healthy, I've not found a way to feel sufficiently sick, tired and
> out-of-shape all the time."

And exactly what is healthy and fit about calling "help(something)" and 
then having that help disappear?  I find that *extremely* annoying.

> But I see your point. The pydoc documentation itself is lacking. But from
> reading the source code, I see that if you set the PAGER environment
> variable to your preferred pager, it will use that. So setting it to "cat"
> should work. I've just tested this under Linux, and it works for me:

So I have to cripple my shell to get pydoc help to work nicely?  Neat! 
Actually, not so much.  :(

--
~Ethan~


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 22:10:50 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 12:10:50 +1000
Subject: Not x.islower() has different output than x.isupper() in list
 output...
In-Reply-To: <57241097.7020801@icloud.com>
References: <572407AE.1070703@icloud.com>
 <1461979797.3824480.593944273.0B8D8DF3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57241097.7020801@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrgtnpPSfdCqa6fyNT0FwY3jckqwr8Vqq4MZ8JCZ5V5cg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Christopher Reimer
<christopher_reimer at icloud.com> wrote:
> On 4/29/2016 6:29 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
>>
>> If isupper/islower were perfect opposites of each-other, there'd be no
>> need for both. But since characters can be upper, lower, or *neither*, you
>> run into this situation.
>
>
> Based upon the official documentation, I was expecting perfect opposites.
>
> str.islower(): "Return true if all cased characters [4] in the string are
> lowercase and there is at least one cased character, false otherwise."
>
> https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html?highlight=islower#str.islower
>
> str.isupper(): "Return true if all cased characters [4] in the string are
> uppercase and there is at least one cased character, false otherwise."
>
> https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html?highlight=isupper#str.isupper
>
> Here's the footnote that may or not be relevant to this discussion: "[4]
> Cased characters are those with general category property being one of ?Lu?
> (Letter, uppercase), ?Ll? (Letter, lowercase), or ?Lt? (Letter, titlecase)."
>
> A bug in the docs?

>>> def case(ch):
...     return (
...         ("Lower " if ch.islower() else "") +
...         ("Upper " if ch.isupper() else "") +
...         unicodedata.category(ch)
...     )

Both functions require that there be at least one cased character:

>>> case("@")
'Po'

And then each one requires a specific character class:

>>> case("a")
'Lower Ll'
>>> case("A")
'Upper Lu'

Other classes don't count:

>>> case("\u01C5")
'Lt'

There are three categories of "cased characters". Both functions check
for exactly one of those categories. Thus they are not opposites.

ChrisA


From random832 at fastmail.com  Fri Apr 29 22:16:52 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 22:16:52 -0400
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <572413C9.2070405@stoneleaf.us>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <877ffhgnyf.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <0d5b5562-7a08-41de-8b84-a13f0792e767@googlegroups.com>
 <57232b34$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <72444f12-784b-47b4-a80c-0ae53cf3b5a3@googlegroups.com>
 <57240856$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <572413C9.2070405@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <1461982612.3299155.593966809.3D1A53FF@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Fri, Apr 29, 2016, at 22:09, Ethan Furman wrote:
> So I have to cripple my shell to get pydoc help to work nicely?  Neat! 
> Actually, not so much.  :(

If you don't want a pager with pydoc, when exactly do you want it?


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Apr 29 22:25:21 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 12:25:21 +1000
Subject: manpage writing [rst, asciidoc,
 pod] was [Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?]
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nfthhs$klf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461865210.3218352.592571425.2069E4EB@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftjuh$t2b$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.207.1461867295.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8kdshyh.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <nftot6$4ii$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461873085.3251720.592695601.44633E5E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftu4v$3d1$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.214.1461877741.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <5722bb82$0$1600$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604290441080.29512@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>
Message-ID: <85r3dnj0j2.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

"Martin A. Brown" <martin at linux-ip.net> writes:

> Hello [Steven D'Aprano],
>
> >What is a good place where I can find out more about writing manpage?

Writing them directly in GNU troff markup is easy enough
<URL:http://liw.fi/manpages/>.

For writing manual pages programmatically via Python code, I am working
on a ?manpage? library. It is not yet at PyPI, but Steven may find
the existing library <URL:https://notabug.org/bignose/python-manpage>
useful. It's free software under the GNU GPL v3 or later.

Steven, if you want to use that library for making manual pages, I'd
love to get feedback. Currently it works on an ArgumentParser instance
(to get the program's name and option help), and a Distutils
distribution (to get the boader metadata about the package).

What ?manpage? doesn't yet have is a more generic way to specify the
metadata of a manual page. Everything is done by directly modifying a
Document instance. I have yet to decide a data format for the data which
specifies a manual page.

Getting several more code bases using this library would make it clearer
what use cases are important, and thereby inform a data format for the
specification. Please experiment!

-- 
 \      ?The process by which banks create money is so simple that the |
  `\     mind is repelled.? ?John Kenneth Galbraith, _Money: Whence It |
_o__)                                       Came, Where It Went_, 1975 |
Ben Finney



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Apr 29 22:25:21 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 12:25:21 +1000
Subject: Writing manual pages using Python code (was: manpage writing)
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nfthhs$klf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461865210.3218352.592571425.2069E4EB@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftjuh$t2b$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.207.1461867295.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8kdshyh.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <nftot6$4ii$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461873085.3251720.592695601.44633E5E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftu4v$3d1$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.214.1461877741.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <5722bb82$0$1600$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604290441080.29512@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>
Message-ID: <85k2jfj036.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

"Martin A. Brown" <martin at linux-ip.net> writes:

> Hello [Steven D'Aprano],
>
> >What is a good place where I can find out more about writing manpage?

Writing manual pages directly in standard GNU troff markup is simple
enough <URL:http://liw.fi/manpages/>. It's not a pretty markup language,
but it's workable.

For writing manual page documents programmatically via Python code, I am
working on a ?manpage? library.

It is not yet at PyPI, but Steven may find the existing library
<URL:https://notabug.org/bignose/python-manpage> useful. It's free
software under the GNU GPL v3 or later.

Steven, if you want to use that library for making manual pages, I'd
love to get feedback.

Currently it works on an ArgumentParser instance (to get the program's
name and option help), and a Distutils distribution (to get the boader
metadata about the package).

What ?manpage? doesn't yet have is a more generic way to specify the
metadata of a manual page; the above inputs are the only ones that I've
tested. Everything is done by directly modifying a Document instance. I
have yet to decide a data format for the data which specifies a manual
page.

If several more code bases could use this library to generate manual
pages, that would make it clearer what use cases are important, and
thereby inform a data format for the specification. Please experiment!

-- 
 \      ?The process by which banks create money is so simple that the |
  `\     mind is repelled.? ?John Kenneth Galbraith, _Money: Whence It |
_o__)                                       Came, Where It Went_, 1975 |
Ben Finney



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 22:27:28 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 19:27:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.245.1461982615.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <877ffhgnyf.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <0d5b5562-7a08-41de-8b84-a13f0792e767@googlegroups.com>
 <57232b34$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <72444f12-784b-47b4-a80c-0ae53cf3b5a3@googlegroups.com>
 <57240856$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <572413C9.2070405@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461982612.3299155.593966809.3D1A53FF@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.245.1461982615.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41ec5af0-2ffa-4202-a5df-08f9660f7c57@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 30, 2016 at 7:47:11 AM UTC+5:30, Random832 wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016, at 22:09, Ethan Furman wrote:
> > So I have to cripple my shell to get pydoc help to work nicely?  Neat! 
> > Actually, not so much.  :(
> 
> If you don't want a pager with pydoc, when exactly do you want it?

- I start a python interpreter
- ... Am pottering around for a while
- ... Need help on something... 
      [So with Steven's solution of PAGER=cat Ive to restart python!!
      Leaving that aside...]
- ... help can do one of two valid things [remember I am on a modern windowing 
      system] 
      -- start help inline, inband (cat)
      -- start help out of band (browser, yelp, etc ie some other app)
   
Instead it does some ?-assed fall-between-the-stools of both


From eryksun at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 22:35:42 2016
From: eryksun at gmail.com (eryk sun)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 21:35:42 -0500
Subject: about special characters
In-Reply-To: <85vb2zj27p.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <CAJ7mry+o=PRGtM46HPGdNVqaowy3tmheJKu38nRy4y_QEjqV-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <85zischt1i.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.235.1461973955.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <572402db$0$1583$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <85vb2zj27p.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CACL+1av+6FFBUyZ=yQVRiabwYzUSM7GwHL0b1JYORskCeQDNUQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 8:48 PM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> writes:
>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 09:52 am, Ben Finney wrote:
>>
>> > (There has never been a Python 27. I assume Python 2.7 is what you
>> > meant.)
>>
>> I believe that Python X.Y shows up as "PythonXY" under Windows.
>
> Then that's a bug which should be fixed, IMO. An MS Windows user (i.e.,
> not me) would be well placed to describe the behaviour in a bug report.

It's Python X.Y in the start menu and Python X.Y.Z in sys.version. The
default installation directory is PythonXY (for 3.5.0 it was "Python
3.5"; this was reverted in 3.5.1), and the DLL is pythonXY.dll. The
executables are python.exe and pythonw.exe.


From random832 at fastmail.com  Fri Apr 29 22:36:31 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 22:36:31 -0400
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <41ec5af0-2ffa-4202-a5df-08f9660f7c57@googlegroups.com>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <877ffhgnyf.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <0d5b5562-7a08-41de-8b84-a13f0792e767@googlegroups.com>
 <57232b34$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <72444f12-784b-47b4-a80c-0ae53cf3b5a3@googlegroups.com>
 <57240856$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <572413C9.2070405@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461982612.3299155.593966809.3D1A53FF@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.245.1461982615.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <41ec5af0-2ffa-4202-a5df-08f9660f7c57@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1461983791.3302675.593974129.5625C3C3@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Fri, Apr 29, 2016, at 22:27, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Saturday, April 30, 2016 at 7:47:11 AM UTC+5:30, Random832 wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 29, 2016, at 22:09, Ethan Furman wrote:
> > > So I have to cripple my shell to get pydoc help to work nicely?  Neat! 
> > > Actually, not so much.  :(
> > 
> > If you don't want a pager with pydoc, when exactly do you want it?
> 
> - I start a python interpreter
> - ... Am pottering around for a while
> - ... Need help on something... 
>       [So with Steven's solution of PAGER=cat Ive to restart python!!
>       Leaving that aside...]
> - ... help can do one of two valid things [remember I am on a modern
> windowing 
>       system] 
>       -- start help inline, inband (cat)
>       -- start help out of band (browser, yelp, etc ie some other app)
>    
> Instead it does some ?-assed fall-between-the-stools of both

That doesn't answer the question of why, if you (Well, Ethan, but you're
taking the same position here) hate pagers so much, why you can't just
set PAGER=cat in your profile once, now, and never see one again. How
does this "cripple your shell"; if you hate pagers so much why do you
want man or git to use one any more than pydoc?


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Apr 29 22:37:38 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 22:37:38 -0400
Subject: about special characters
In-Reply-To: <85vb2zj27p.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <CAJ7mry+o=PRGtM46HPGdNVqaowy3tmheJKu38nRy4y_QEjqV-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <85zischt1i.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.235.1461973955.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <572402db$0$1583$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <85vb2zj27p.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <ng15pj$pl4$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/29/2016 9:48 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> writes:
>
>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 09:52 am, Ben Finney wrote:
>>
>>> (There has never been a Python 27. I assume Python 2.7 is what you
>>> meant.)
>>
>> I believe that Python X.Y shows up as "PythonXY" under Windows.

As a directory name that also omits the space, yes. Start Menu entries 
have both the space and and the '.'.

> Then that's a bug which should be fixed, IMO. An MS Windows user (i.e.,
> not me) would be well placed to describe the behaviour in a bug report.

I disagree.  .0, .1, etc, would look like extensions, but are not.


-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Apr 29 22:43:29 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 12:43:29 +1000
Subject: about special characters
References: <CAJ7mry+o=PRGtM46HPGdNVqaowy3tmheJKu38nRy4y_QEjqV-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <85zischt1i.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.235.1461973955.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <572402db$0$1583$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <85vb2zj27p.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <ng15pj$pl4$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <85fuu3izou.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:

> On 4/29/2016 9:48 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> > Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> writes:
> >
> >> On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 09:52 am, Ben Finney wrote:
> >>
> >>> (There has never been a Python 27. I assume Python 2.7 is what you
> >>> meant.)
> >>
> >> I believe that Python X.Y shows up as "PythonXY" under Windows.
>
> As a directory name that also omits the space, yes. Start Menu entries
> have both the space and and the '.'.

Okay. So as you describe the behaviour on MS Windows, it doesn't support
the OP's choice of saying ?python 27? to specify Python 2.7 ? MS Windows
appears to be irrelevant to that.

-- 
 \          ?Computer perspective on Moore's Law: Human effort becomes |
  `\           twice as expensive roughly every two years.? ?anonymous |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 22:46:04 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 19:46:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.249.1461983794.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <877ffhgnyf.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <0d5b5562-7a08-41de-8b84-a13f0792e767@googlegroups.com>
 <57232b34$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <72444f12-784b-47b4-a80c-0ae53cf3b5a3@googlegroups.com>
 <57240856$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <572413C9.2070405@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461982612.3299155.593966809.3D1A53FF@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.245.1461982615.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <41ec5af0-2ffa-4202-a5df-08f9660f7c57@googlegroups.com>
 <1461983791.3302675.593974129.5625C3C3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.249.1461983794.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <875ab1a2-bd23-4b1e-92ca-4079b8e86e6b@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 30, 2016 at 8:06:46 AM UTC+5:30, Random832 wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016, at 22:27, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 30, 2016 at 7:47:11 AM UTC+5:30, Random832 wrote:
> > > On Fri, Apr 29, 2016, at 22:09, Ethan Furman wrote:
> > > > So I have to cripple my shell to get pydoc help to work nicely?  Neat! 
> > > > Actually, not so much.  :(
> > > 
> > > If you don't want a pager with pydoc, when exactly do you want it?
> > 
> > - I start a python interpreter
> > - ... Am pottering around for a while
> > - ... Need help on something... 
> >       [So with Steven's solution of PAGER=cat Ive to restart python!!
> >       Leaving that aside...]
> > - ... help can do one of two valid things [remember I am on a modern
> > windowing 
> >       system] 
> >       -- start help inline, inband (cat)
> >       -- start help out of band (browser, yelp, etc ie some other app)
> >    
> > Instead it does some ?-assed fall-between-the-stools of both
> 
> That doesn't answer the question of why, if you (Well, Ethan, but you're
> taking the same position here) hate pagers so much, why you can't just
> set PAGER=cat in your profile once, now, and never see one again. How
> does this "cripple your shell"; if you hate pagers so much why do you
> want man or git to use one any more than pydoc?

I dont get whats so hard to get in this:
When we need pagers we know where to get them
When we dont, please dont thump them on us
I dont know that anyone has taken the "I-HATE-pagers' view so much as
"Let me get them when I want them"


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Apr 29 22:49:20 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 12:49:20 +1000
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <877ffhgnyf.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <0d5b5562-7a08-41de-8b84-a13f0792e767@googlegroups.com>
 <57232b34$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <72444f12-784b-47b4-a80c-0ae53cf3b5a3@googlegroups.com>
 <57240856$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <572413C9.2070405@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461982612.3299155.593966809.3D1A53FF@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.245.1461982615.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <41ec5af0-2ffa-4202-a5df-08f9660f7c57@googlegroups.com>
 <1461983791.3302675.593974129.5625C3C3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <85bn4rizf3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> writes:

> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016, at 22:27, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > Instead it does some ?-assed fall-between-the-stools of both
>
> That doesn't answer the question of why, if you (Well, Ethan, but
> you're taking the same position here) hate pagers so much

That's not a question relevant here; nobody inthe discussion has a
position fairly characterised as ?hate pagers so much?. So you're
arguing against a straw man.

Rather, the position being argued is that they *do* like pagers; they
like pagers enough that they want the existing ?PAGER? environment
variable setting to remain untouched. And, simulatenously, they want
Python's help to not use a pager at the interactive prompt.

-- 
 \        ?The difference between religions and cults is determined by |
  `\                      how much real estate is owned.? ?Frank Zappa |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Apr 29 22:53:16 2016
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 03:53:16 +0100
Subject: about special characters
In-Reply-To: <CACL+1av+6FFBUyZ=yQVRiabwYzUSM7GwHL0b1JYORskCeQDNUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ7mry+o=PRGtM46HPGdNVqaowy3tmheJKu38nRy4y_QEjqV-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <85zischt1i.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.235.1461973955.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <572402db$0$1583$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <85vb2zj27p.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CACL+1av+6FFBUyZ=yQVRiabwYzUSM7GwHL0b1JYORskCeQDNUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7ee9728b-e4e7-9c1d-3ba5-763b514282a2@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-30 03:35, eryk sun wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 8:48 PM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>> Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> writes:
>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 09:52 am, Ben Finney wrote:
>>>
>>> > (There has never been a Python 27. I assume Python 2.7 is what you
>>> > meant.)
>>>
>>> I believe that Python X.Y shows up as "PythonXY" under Windows.
>>
>> Then that's a bug which should be fixed, IMO. An MS Windows user (i.e.,
>> not me) would be well placed to describe the behaviour in a bug report.
>
> It's Python X.Y in the start menu and Python X.Y.Z in sys.version. The
> default installation directory is PythonXY (for 3.5.0 it was "Python
> 3.5"; this was reverted in 3.5.1), and the DLL is pythonXY.dll. The
> executables are python.exe and pythonw.exe.
>
There's an option in Windows to hide the extension. I wondered whether 
that had something to do with it.

It turns out that it applies only to file names, not folder names, so 
you can have multiple files apparently with the same name, but folder 
names remain distinct.



From random832 at fastmail.com  Fri Apr 29 23:14:03 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 23:14:03 -0400
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <875ab1a2-bd23-4b1e-92ca-4079b8e86e6b@googlegroups.com>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <877ffhgnyf.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <0d5b5562-7a08-41de-8b84-a13f0792e767@googlegroups.com>
 <57232b34$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <72444f12-784b-47b4-a80c-0ae53cf3b5a3@googlegroups.com>
 <57240856$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <572413C9.2070405@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461982612.3299155.593966809.3D1A53FF@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.245.1461982615.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <41ec5af0-2ffa-4202-a5df-08f9660f7c57@googlegroups.com>
 <1461983791.3302675.593974129.5625C3C3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.249.1461983794.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <875ab1a2-bd23-4b1e-92ca-4079b8e86e6b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1461986043.3312511.593988601.278FD12E@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Fri, Apr 29, 2016, at 22:46, Rustom Mody wrote:
> I dont get whats so hard to get in this:
> When we need pagers we know where to get them

And if you set PAGER=cat (thus "crippling your shell"), you will
likewise know where to get them when you want to page the output from
man or git. Why is pydoc less of a "place where a pager should be used
by default" than man or git (diff, log, etc), if you accept the latter?

> When we dont, please dont thump them on us
> I dont know that anyone has taken the "I-HATE-pagers' view so much as
> "Let me get them when I want them"

Sure. And if you set PAGER=cat, then you won't ever see a pager unless
you specifically request one. Everyone wins.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 23:20:33 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 20:20:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: manpage writing [rst, asciidoc, pod] was [Re: What should Python
 apps do when asked to show help?]
In-Reply-To: <mailman.246.1461983135.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nfthhs$klf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461865210.3218352.592571425.2069E4EB@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftjuh$t2b$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.207.1461867295.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8kdshyh.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <nftot6$4ii$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461873085.3251720.592695601.44633E5E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftu4v$3d1$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.214.1461877741.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <5722bb82$0$1600$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604290441080.29512@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>
 <85r3dnj0j2.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.246.1461983135.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f96ff7ec-3ba7-4827-850c-d6ab73409e74@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 30, 2016 at 7:55:47 AM UTC+5:30, Ben Finney wrote:
> "Martin A. Brown"  writes:
> 
> > Hello [Steven D'Aprano],
> >
> > >What is a good place where I can find out more about writing manpage?
> 
> Writing them directly in GNU troff markup is easy enough
> <URL:http://liw.fi/manpages/>.
> 
> For writing manual pages programmatically via Python code, I am working
> on a 'manpage' library. It is not yet at PyPI, but Steven may find
> the existing library <URL:https://notabug.org/bignose/python-manpage>
> useful. It's free software under the GNU GPL v3 or later.
> 
> Steven, if you want to use that library for making manual pages, I'd
> love to get feedback. Currently it works on an ArgumentParser instance
> (to get the program's name and option help), and a Distutils
> distribution (to get the boader metadata about the package).
> 
> What 'manpage' doesn't yet have is a more generic way to specify the
> metadata of a manual page. Everything is done by directly modifying a
> Document instance. I have yet to decide a data format for the data which
> specifies a manual page.
> 
> Getting several more code bases using this library would make it clearer
> what use cases are important, and thereby inform a data format for the
> specification. Please experiment!

Some general thoughts and comments:
Documentation in linux is a train-wreck in slow motion -- 30 years of slow motion!!

tl;dr
If you want to be helpful to the community please dont create a new format
Instead try to make existing formats interoperate/work better with each other

In more detail:
First there was man
Then gnu/rms created info to better man with hypertext capabilities
However another hypertext standard beat the gnu standard -- html
[No I am not talking of quality just general acceptance]
As with all things rms, its taking him decades to realize this defeat
[Latest makeinfo is 18 times slower than previous version!!
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-texinfo/2013-01/msg00012.html
]

In the meantime the so called lightweight formats have multiplied:
rst, textile, markdown, asciidoc etc
with their own 'stacks'
Alongside siloed, incompatible help systems:
manpages, infodocs, yelp...


From steve at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 29 23:23:40 2016
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 13:23:40 +1000
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <877ffhgnyf.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <0d5b5562-7a08-41de-8b84-a13f0792e767@googlegroups.com>
 <57232b34$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <72444f12-784b-47b4-a80c-0ae53cf3b5a3@googlegroups.com>
 <57240856$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <572413C9.2070405@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461982612.3299155.593966809.3D1A53FF@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.245.1461982615.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <41ec5af0-2ffa-4202-a5df-08f9660f7c57@googlegroups.com>
 <1461983791.3302675.593974129.5625C3C3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85bn4rizf3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.252.1461984570.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5724253e$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 12:49 pm, Ben Finney wrote:

> Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> writes:
> 
>> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016, at 22:27, Rustom Mody wrote:
>> > Instead it does some ?-assed fall-between-the-stools of both
>>
>> That doesn't answer the question of why, if you (Well, Ethan, but
>> you're taking the same position here) hate pagers so much
> 
> That's not a question relevant here; nobody inthe discussion has a
> position fairly characterised as ?hate pagers so much?. So you're
> arguing against a straw man.
> 
> Rather, the position being argued is that they *do* like pagers; they
> like pagers enough that they want the existing ?PAGER? environment
> variable setting to remain untouched. 

So they want the PAGER environment variable to specify what pager they
want...

> And, simulatenously, they want 
> Python's help to not use a pager at the interactive prompt.

...so long as applications don't actually make use of that PAGER environment
variable to determine the pager they want to use.


(1) If you want man, and nothing else in the universe, to automatically use
a pager, then set MANPAGER="less" (or whatever you wish to use), and unset
PAGER.


(2) If you don't want *anything* to use a pager, then unset both MANPAGER
and PAGER. You may have to report a feature request / bug report for
applications which force their own pager.


(3) In Python specifically, you can trivially and easily tell help() to
output directly to stdout. (At least on Linux, I haven't tested it
elsewhere.) Simply use PAGER=cat on the command line you use to launch the
interactive environment. This will affect no other running or future
processes (apart from subprocesses launched from your interactive Python
session), allowing you to keep your PAGER for everything else.

(4) If you want more than that, then patches are welcome :-)


Seriously, I'm thinking that a keyword argument to help might be useful:

help(object, pager=None)

where:

- pager=None gives the current behaviour;

- pager="foo" calls out to the external program "foo";

- pager=callable passes the help text to callable().


pager=print would do exactly what people are asking for, and you could then
create your own wrapper to change the default:

help = functools.partial(builtins.help, pager=print)


I think that would make it easier to test help(). Thoughts?



-- 
Steven



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Apr 30 00:06:05 2016
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 14:06:05 +1000
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <877ffhgnyf.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <0d5b5562-7a08-41de-8b84-a13f0792e767@googlegroups.com>
 <57232b34$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <72444f12-784b-47b4-a80c-0ae53cf3b5a3@googlegroups.com>
 <57240856$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <572413C9.2070405@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461982612.3299155.593966809.3D1A53FF@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.245.1461982615.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <41ec5af0-2ffa-4202-a5df-08f9660f7c57@googlegroups.com>
 <1461983791.3302675.593974129.5625C3C3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85bn4rizf3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.252.1461984570.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <5724253e$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <857fffivv6.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> writes:

> So they want the PAGER environment variable to specify what pager they
> want...
>
> ...so long as applications don't actually make use of that PAGER
> environment variable to determine the pager they want to use.

This at least does not baldly misrepresent the position being made :-)

-- 
 \        ?My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four. |
  `\               Unless there are three other people.? ?Orson Welles |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Apr 30 00:06:31 2016
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 21:06:31 -0700
Subject: manpage writing [rst, asciidoc,
 pod] was [Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?]
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nfthhs$klf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461865210.3218352.592571425.2069E4EB@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftjuh$t2b$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.207.1461867295.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8kdshyh.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <nftot6$4ii$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461873085.3251720.592695601.44633E5E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftu4v$3d1$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.214.1461877741.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <5722bb82$0$1600$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604290441080.29512@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>
 <85r3dnj0j2.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.246.1461983135.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <f96ff7ec-3ba7-4827-850c-d6ab73409e74@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87y47vg2pk.fsf@nightsong.com>

Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com> writes:
> As with all things rms, its taking him decades to realize this defeat
> [Latest makeinfo is 18 times slower than previous version!!
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-texinfo/2013-01/msg00012.html

Wait, what's it written in now?

> In the meantime the so called lightweight formats have multiplied:
> rst, textile, markdown, asciidoc etc

Pandoc can interconvert between most of those... maybe texinfo should
be folded into it if it's not already.


From random832 at fastmail.com  Sat Apr 30 00:16:03 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 00:16:03 -0400
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <857fffivv6.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <877ffhgnyf.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <0d5b5562-7a08-41de-8b84-a13f0792e767@googlegroups.com>
 <57232b34$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <72444f12-784b-47b4-a80c-0ae53cf3b5a3@googlegroups.com>
 <57240856$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <572413C9.2070405@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461982612.3299155.593966809.3D1A53FF@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.245.1461982615.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <41ec5af0-2ffa-4202-a5df-08f9660f7c57@googlegroups.com>
 <1461983791.3302675.593974129.5625C3C3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85bn4rizf3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.252.1461984570.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <5724253e$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <857fffivv6.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <1461989763.3328622.594009561.22923A0D@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sat, Apr 30, 2016, at 00:06, Ben Finney wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> writes:
> 
> > So they want the PAGER environment variable to specify what pager they
> > want...
> >
> > ...so long as applications don't actually make use of that PAGER
> > environment variable to determine the pager they want to use.
> 
> This at least does not baldly misrepresent the position being made :-)

I still don't understand how it's a misrepresentation. They said they
don't want stuff (where "stuff" includes pydoc but it's not clear why or
where it ends) to automatically use a pager without being requested, and
provided absolutely no criteria by which pydoc is special and shouldn't
behave the same as git and man do (since the entire reason PAGER=cat is
an unacceptable solution is that it "cripples" git and man).


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sat Apr 30 00:34:01 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 21:34:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.256.1461989766.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <877ffhgnyf.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <0d5b5562-7a08-41de-8b84-a13f0792e767@googlegroups.com>
 <57232b34$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <72444f12-784b-47b4-a80c-0ae53cf3b5a3@googlegroups.com>
 <57240856$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <572413C9.2070405@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461982612.3299155.593966809.3D1A53FF@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.245.1461982615.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <41ec5af0-2ffa-4202-a5df-08f9660f7c57@googlegroups.com>
 <1461983791.3302675.593974129.5625C3C3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85bn4rizf3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.252.1461984570.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <5724253e$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <857fffivv6.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <1461989763.3328622.594009561.22923A0D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.256.1461989766.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f6cf8d9b-adba-4c8e-9c40-43fe5013c6c1@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 30, 2016 at 9:46:19 AM UTC+5:30, Random832 wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 30, 2016, at 00:06, Ben Finney wrote:
> > Steven D'Aprano  writes:
> > 
> > > So they want the PAGER environment variable to specify what pager they
> > > want...
> > >
> > > ...so long as applications don't actually make use of that PAGER
> > > environment variable to determine the pager they want to use.
> > 
> > This at least does not baldly misrepresent the position being made :-)
> 
> I still don't understand how it's a misrepresentation. They said they
> don't want stuff (where "stuff" includes pydoc but it's not clear why or
> where it ends) to automatically use a pager without being requested, and
> provided absolutely no criteria by which pydoc is special and shouldn't
> behave the same as git and man do (since the entire reason PAGER=cat is
> an unacceptable solution is that it "cripples" git and man).

Also environment variables are a nuisance and an antipattern:
http://peterlyons.com/problog/2010/02/environment-variables-considered-harmful


From random832 at fastmail.com  Sat Apr 30 01:20:11 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 01:20:11 -0400
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <5724253e$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <877ffhgnyf.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <0d5b5562-7a08-41de-8b84-a13f0792e767@googlegroups.com>
 <57232b34$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <72444f12-784b-47b4-a80c-0ae53cf3b5a3@googlegroups.com>
 <57240856$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <572413C9.2070405@stoneleaf.us>
 <1461982612.3299155.593966809.3D1A53FF@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <mailman.245.1461982615.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <41ec5af0-2ffa-4202-a5df-08f9660f7c57@googlegroups.com>
 <1461983791.3302675.593974129.5625C3C3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <85bn4rizf3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.252.1461984570.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <5724253e$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1461993611.3340362.594023513.1E745BA1@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Fri, Apr 29, 2016, at 23:23, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Seriously, I'm thinking that a keyword argument to help might be useful:
> 
> help(object, pager=None)

I'd call it something more generic like "output".

> where:
> 
> - pager=None gives the current behaviour;
> 
> - pager="foo" calls out to the external program "foo";
> 
> - pager=callable passes the help text to callable().
> 
> 
> pager=print would do exactly what people are asking for, and you could
> then
> create your own wrapper to change the default:
> 
> help = functools.partial(builtins.help, pager=print)
> 
> 
> I think that would make it easier to test help(). Thoughts?

For testing purposes, help could return the result of the output
function, so that you can use lambda x: x to have it return the help
text.

More general thoughts: It might also be useful to move the pager
machinery from pydoc to an independent module. It's got, among other
things, a simple pager written in pure python, for use as a fallback. 

There's a lot of stuff that could be improved in the pager stuff, while
we're at it. Probably needs a single function to handle "use external
program as a pager", rather than having a bunch of logic embedded in
getpager() which only works for os.environ['PAGER'].

The "pager" function doesn't behave "properly" (in its intended behavior
of calling the expensive getpager() once when it is first called and
subsequently reusing the cached value) if a reference to it is stored
elsewhere (e.g. by importing it to another module); it should store the
cached pager function somewhere else rather than by replacing itself.

The pure-python pager only works on unix-style ttys, an analogous
function could be written for windows using msvcrt.getwch.


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Sat Apr 30 01:47:40 2016
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 17:47:40 +1200
Subject: Not x.islower() has different output than x.isupper() in list
 output...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.242.1461981344.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <572407AE.1070703@icloud.com>
 <1461979797.3824480.593944273.0B8D8DF3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57241097.7020801@icloud.com>
 <mailman.242.1461981344.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <doiv7uFegcvU1@mid.individual.net>

Christopher Reimer wrote:

> str.islower(): "Return true if all cased characters [4] in the string 
> are lowercase and there is at least one cased character, false otherwise."
> 
> str.isupper(): "Return true if all cased characters [4] in the string 
> are uppercase and there is at least one cased character, false otherwise."

A string consisting of a single space doesn't contain any
cased characters, so both islower(" ") and isupper(" ")
return false according to these rules. The docs are correct.

-- 
Greg


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sat Apr 30 02:37:22 2016
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 23:37:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: manpage writing [rst, asciidoc, pod] was [Re: What should Python
 apps do when asked to show help?]
In-Reply-To: <87y47vg2pk.fsf@nightsong.com>
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nfthhs$klf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461865210.3218352.592571425.2069E4EB@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftjuh$t2b$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.207.1461867295.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8kdshyh.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <nftot6$4ii$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461873085.3251720.592695601.44633E5E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftu4v$3d1$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.214.1461877741.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <5722bb82$0$1600$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604290441080.29512@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>
 <85r3dnj0j2.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.246.1461983135.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <f96ff7ec-3ba7-4827-850c-d6ab73409e74@googlegroups.com>
 <87y47vg2pk.fsf@nightsong.com>
Message-ID: <8b19410d-aea7-492f-91a1-38beaab87228@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 30, 2016 at 9:36:42 AM UTC+5:30, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Rustom Mody  writes:
> > As with all things rms, its taking him decades to realize this defeat
> > [Latest makeinfo is 18 times slower than previous version!!
> > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-texinfo/2013-01/msg00012.html
> 
> Wait, what's it written in now?

Have you any data that its moved on?

At that point what I gleaned was that original makeinfo was in C
New one was rewritten in perl.
[Yeah they could have taken a leaf out of pandoc -- written in haskell]


From me at ixokai.io  Sat Apr 30 02:43:24 2016
From: me at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 23:43:24 -0700
Subject: Not x.islower() has different output than x.isupper() in list
 output...
In-Reply-To: <57241097.7020801@icloud.com>
References: <572407AE.1070703@icloud.com>
 <1461979797.3824480.593944273.0B8D8DF3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57241097.7020801@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1461998604.3888861.594056577.710E696D@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Fri, Apr 29, 2016, at 06:55 PM, Christopher Reimer wrote:
> On 4/29/2016 6:29 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> > If isupper/islower were perfect opposites of each-other, there'd be no 
> > need for both. But since characters can be upper, lower, or *neither*, 
> > you run into this situation.
> 
> Based upon the official documentation, I was expecting perfect opposites.
> 
> str.islower(): "Return true if all cased characters [4] in the string 
> are lowercase and there is at least one cased character, false
> otherwise."

The thing is, your use of filter is passing a string of 1 character long
to your function, and so when it comes up against a string " ", there
are no cased characters. Therefore, false.

The documentation holds true. 

Your use of filter is breaking "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot" into ["W", "h",
"i", ... "o" t"] and calling not x.islower() vs x.isupper() on each.

When it comes up against " ", it doesn't pass the documented definition
of what islower defines. 

The official documentation is accurate.

-- 
Stephen Hansen
  m e @ i x o k a i  . i o


From andrea.gavana at gmail.com  Sat Apr 30 03:04:52 2016
From: andrea.gavana at gmail.com (Andrea Gavana)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 09:04:52 +0200
Subject: Compiling extensions on Python 2.7, Windows 10 64 bit
In-Reply-To: <CA+FnnTzhB9EhJHhVq3iX1o23=kVbRq5EZUF+HFh2p6PTZFd4Qg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a18dab90-3183-4389-bccf-dbbbae69c6dd@googlegroups.com>
 <CA+FnnTz+ti4tov5UjRtmcKVG8zkGf5siEx7SYuRNsCm9OevpnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEf70bxOZ=4QEeaUCZR0mV4ZjgFmsYPfDkphtLzL_9nTTisZ5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+FnnTzhB9EhJHhVq3iX1o23=kVbRq5EZUF+HFh2p6PTZFd4Qg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEf70bzBrJrase51YFb84kgCaMn2+o-J9Emn_WhxYvmP8tS7Dw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

On Friday, 29 April 2016, Igor Korot <ikorot01 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Andrea,
>
> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 4:27 PM, Andrea Gavana <andrea.gavana at gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> > On Friday, 29 April 2016, Igor Korot <ikorot01 at gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Andrea,
> >>
> >> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:45 PM,  <andrea.gavana at gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >> > Dear list,
> >> >
> >> >     I have been trying to compile wxPython Phoenix
> >> > (https://github.com/wxWidgets/Phoenix) from source on Windows 10 64
> bit,
> >> > Python 2.7 64 bit, using the very handy Microsoft Visual C++ Compiler
> for
> >> > Python 2.7 (
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=44266).
> >> >
> >> > I started with Python 2.7.8, then wiped out that installation and used
> >> > Python 2.7.11: cleaned the build directory, everything, and rebuilt
> the
> >> > Phoenix modules from scratch.
> >> >
> >> > Upon starting the Phoenix demo, I got the same error message I had
> with
> >> > Python 2.7.8:
> >> >
> >> > D:\MyProjects\Phoenix\demo>python Main.py
> >> > <type 'str'>
> >> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >> >   File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wxPhoenix\wx\core.py", line
> 1955,
> >> > in Notify
> >> >     self.notify()
> >> >   File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wxPhoenix\wx\core.py", line
> 3034,
> >> > in Notify
> >> >     self.result = self.callable(*self.args, **self.kwargs)
> >> >   File "Main.py", line 2601, in ShowMain
> >> >     frame = wxPythonDemo(None, "wxPython: (A Demonstration)")
> >> >   File "Main.py", line 1531, in __init__
> >> >     self.SetOverview(self.overviewText, mainOverview)
> >> >   File "Main.py", line 2130, in SetOverview
> >> >     self.nb.SetPageText(0, os.path.split(name)[1])
> >> > SystemError: ..\Objects\longobject.c:998: bad argument to internal
> >> > function
> >> >
> >> > The error message refers (apparently) to this Python bug:
> >> >
> >> > https://bugs.python.org/issue23842
> >> >
> >> > But I assumed that it had been fixed waaaaay before 2.7.11. Now I am
> >> > stuck and I have no idea on what to try next.
> >> >
> >> > Does anyone have suggestions/comments on where I should look for/what
> I
> >> > should do/what I should change in order to get the extension running
> on
> >> > Python 2.7?
> >> >
> >> > Thank you in advance for your suggestions :-)
> >>
> >> Did you try with python 3.x?
> >>
> >> IIUC, Phoenix should be made for python 3.x, and classic is for 2.7
> >> series.
> >>
> >
> >
> > No, Phoenix is meant to work on Python 2 and 3 at the same time. That's
> the
> > very reason it was created.
>
> But is it compiling with python 3.x?
> Because the bug should be definitely fixed there.
>


This is not relevant to the question I have asked. I will be using it with
Python 3 as well, but I would like to know if anybody has a suggestion on
what I may be doing wrong on Python *2*, since I have many projects happily
running with that version of Python.

Andrea.




--


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Apr 30 03:44:29 2016
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 00:44:29 -0700
Subject: manpage writing [rst, asciidoc,
 pod] was [Re: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?]
References: <57223b76$0$22140$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <nfthhs$klf$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461865210.3218352.592571425.2069E4EB@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftjuh$t2b$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.207.1461867295.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <87a8kdshyh.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <nftot6$4ii$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <1461873085.3251720.592695601.44633E5E@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <nftu4v$3d1$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.214.1461877741.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <5722bb82$0$1600$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <alpine.LSU.2.11.1604290441080.29512@znpeba.jbaqresebt.arg>
 <85r3dnj0j2.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.246.1461983135.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <f96ff7ec-3ba7-4827-850c-d6ab73409e74@googlegroups.com>
 <87y47vg2pk.fsf@nightsong.com>
 <8b19410d-aea7-492f-91a1-38beaab87228@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87twijfsma.fsf@nightsong.com>

Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com> writes:
> At that point what I gleaned was that original makeinfo was in C
> New one was rewritten in perl.

The previous one was definitely written in C and I've looked at the code
some.  I hadn't known there was a new one.  The C one was actually the
second one.  The first one was written in Emacs Lisp but it was
painfully slow on the hardware of that era.  The C version was
cumbersome by comparison.  If they wanted to get rid of the C version
now that the hardware is 100x faster or more, it's amusing that they did
a Perl rewrite instead of reviving the Lisp version.  Pandoc has a
significant user base now though, and it looks like it also supports
texinfo.  So I wonder what the new Makeinfo does that pandoc doesn't.
Maybe pandoc doesn't support Info?  That could be added, I'm sure.


From gordon at address.invalid  Sat Apr 30 04:17:52 2016
From: gordon at address.invalid (Gordon Levi)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 18:17:52 +1000
Subject: web facing static text db
References: <CADjSo4QJdxFP0nG1dwGZzRN8xKOSoiwdzRW3E0_SxBi65GcJdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADjSo4TuRB6Fx4ExK9Z+HYMfTfwPAr6wEqAArnwTNza6dje9bQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.232.1461970081.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <neq8ibdh4rl2knja0ck4jbi469137jaakn@4ax.com>

"Fetchinson ." <fetchinson at googlemail.com> wrote:

>Hi folks,
>
>I have a very specific set of requirements for a task and was
>wondering if anyone had good suggestions for the best set of tools:
>
>* store text documents (about 100000 pages)
>* the data set is static (i.e. only lookups are performed, no delete,
>no edit, no addition)
>* only one operation required: lookup of pages by matching words in them
>* very simple web frontend for querying the words to be matched
>* no authentication or authorization, frontend completely public
>* deployment at webfaction
>* deadline: yesterday :)
>
>Which web framework and db engine would you recommend?
>
>So far I'm familiar with turbogears but would be willing to learn
>anything if sufficiently basic since my needs are pretty basic (I
>think).
>

What do need that storing the documents in HTML format and Google
Custom Search does not provide
<https://support.google.com/customsearch/answer/2630969?hl=en>?


From mal at europython.eu  Sat Apr 30 06:02:12 2016
From: mal at europython.eu (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 12:02:12 +0200
Subject: EuroPython 2016: Extra Hot Topics - Call for Proposals
Message-ID: <572482A4.2050606@europython.eu>

The Program work group is happy to announce that there will be an
extra Call for Proposals early in June. This call is limited to hot
topics and most recent developments in software and technology.

Why is there a second call ?
----------------------------

Planning a big conference is a challenge: On one hand people like to
know what will be on our talk schedule to make up their mind and make
travel arrangements early. On the other hand technology is progressing
at the speed of light these days.

So what?s the solution ? Attend anyway - EuroPython is always a great
idea !

Seriously, we have given this some thought and decided to make another
extra Call for Proposals just weeks before the conference.

This CfP is strictly reserved for

 * hot topics
 * emerging technologies
 * brand new developments in software & hardware
 * recent results in research and science

Some suggestions for topics:

 * Exciting new hardware & Internet of Things
 * Robotics
 * Virtual Reality
 * AI & Deep Learning

This call will be open for nine days only:


    *** Saturday June 4th 0:00 to Sunday June 12th 24:00 CEST ***


The program work group will select the most exciting and intriguing
submissions and will notify the winners on short notice.


With gravitational regards,
--
EuroPython 2016 Team
http://ep2016.europython.eu/
http://www.europython-society.org/


From zljubisic at gmail.com  Sat Apr 30 09:07:00 2016
From: zljubisic at gmail.com (zljubisic at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 06:07:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to download a flash video from this site?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.230.1461962396.32212.python-list@python.org>
References: <0c9d5a3b-ee58-49a6-973a-6125473fea06@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmpFrfNdsvFLS3-xj40JwRXwyQ+Yu96QK+7RYQ_Bkerf0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.230.1461962396.32212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ddbb7118-77fd-4e0c-a834-759eacc5635a@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, 29 April 2016 22:40:10 UTC+2, Chris Angelico  wrote:
> Since you're asking on this list, I'll assume you're using Beautiful
> Soup and/or youtube-dl. You'll need to go into more detail about what
> you're trying to do, and where the Python problem is.
> 
> ChrisA

The situation is very simple. I would like to use a beutifullsoap but I can't figure out how to get the filename that I could download.

For example I opened the page https://hrti.hrt.hr/#/video/show/2203605/trebizat-prica-o-jednoj-vodi-i-jednom-narodu-dokumentarni-film

in firefox and than from menu Tools > Web Developer > Network I found that there is a playlist on page

https://prd-hrt.spectar.tv/player/get_smil/id/2203605/video_id/2203605/token/Cny6ga5VEQSJ2uZaD2G8pg/token_expiration/1462043309/asset_type/Movie/playlist_template/nginx/channel_name/trebiat__pria_o_jednoj_vodi_i_jednom_narodu_dokumentarni_film/playlist.m3u8?foo=bar

in which chunks of video are listed like this:
01_1461582488.0329_000000.ts
01_1461582488.0329_000001.ts
01_1461582488.0329_000002.ts
...
01_1461582488.0329_000359.ts

>From the m3u8 list I can get the first chunk by downloading the following:
https://prd-hrt-vod.spectar.tv/OD/VoD/c2v_production_2201645/03_1461582488.0329_000000.ts

My poblem is how to get from 

https://hrti.hrt.hr/#/video/show/2203605/trebizat-prica-o-jednoj-vodi-i-jednom-narodu-dokumentarni-film

a m3u8 list?

After getting the m3u8 list file, I will be able to download all chunks and record the video.

Regards.


From suabiut at gmail.com  Sat Apr 30 12:44:15 2016
From: suabiut at gmail.com (sum abiut)
Date: Sun, 1 May 2016 03:44:15 +1100
Subject: web facing static text db
In-Reply-To: <neq8ibdh4rl2knja0ck4jbi469137jaakn@4ax.com>
References: <CADjSo4QJdxFP0nG1dwGZzRN8xKOSoiwdzRW3E0_SxBi65GcJdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADjSo4TuRB6Fx4ExK9Z+HYMfTfwPAr6wEqAArnwTNza6dje9bQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.232.1461970081.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <neq8ibdh4rl2knja0ck4jbi469137jaakn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <CAPCf-y6r3g5iuhK5ahY-wN6gteVSwFqLdYZx9q+U382dhdY0jw@mail.gmail.com>

Django is an excellent framework. you can use it with sqlite.

cheers

On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 7:17 PM, Gordon Levi <gordon at address.invalid> wrote:

> "Fetchinson ." <fetchinson at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> >Hi folks,go >
> >I have a vo ery specific set of requirements for a task and was
> >wondering if anyone had good suggestions for the best set of tools:
> >
> >* store text documents (about 100000 pages)
> >* the data set is static (i.e. only lookups are performed, no delete,
> >no edit, no addition)
> >* only one operation required: lookup of pages by matching words in them
> >* very simple web frontend for querying the words to be matched
> >* no authentication or authorization, frontend completely public
> >* deployment at webfaction
> >* deadline: yesterday :)
> >
> >Which web framework and db engine would you recommend?
> >
> >So far I'm familiar with turbogears but would be willing to learn
> >anything if sufficiently basic since my needs are pretty basic (I
> >think).
> >
>
> What do need that storing the documents in HTML format and Google
> Custom Search does not provide
> <https://support.google.com/customsearch/answer/2630969?hl=en>?
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Sat Apr 30 12:48:15 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 09:48:15 -0700
Subject: Not x.islower() has different output than x.isupper() in list
 output...
In-Reply-To: <1461998604.3888861.594056577.710E696D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <572407AE.1070703@icloud.com>
 <1461979797.3824480.593944273.0B8D8DF3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57241097.7020801@icloud.com>
 <1461998604.3888861.594056577.710E696D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <5724E1CF.9060905@icloud.com>

On 4/29/2016 11:43 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> The official documentation is accurate. 

That may be true on a technical level. But the identically worded text 
in the documentation implies otherwise. Maybe I'm nitpicking this. Even 
if I submitted a bug to request a clearer explanation in the 
documentation, I doubt it would get change. The programmer still has an 
obligation to test the code to make sure that it works as expected, 
which was what I did that until I found the concise statement that 
worked exactly as I wanted it to.

Thank you,

Chris R.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 30 13:00:02 2016
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 1 May 2016 03:00:02 +1000
Subject: Not x.islower() has different output than x.isupper() in list
 output...
In-Reply-To: <5724E1CF.9060905@icloud.com>
References: <572407AE.1070703@icloud.com>
 <1461979797.3824480.593944273.0B8D8DF3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57241097.7020801@icloud.com>
 <1461998604.3888861.594056577.710E696D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <5724E1CF.9060905@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrk+tiBA+pSi=UAAsPgpokbk4pTuxPxLGGQAYF8dRYriA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 2:48 AM, Christopher Reimer
<christopher_reimer at icloud.com> wrote:
> On 4/29/2016 11:43 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
>>
>> The official documentation is accurate.
>
>
> That may be true on a technical level. But the identically worded text in
> the documentation implies otherwise. Maybe I'm nitpicking this. Even if I
> submitted a bug to request a clearer explanation in the documentation, I
> doubt it would get change. The programmer still has an obligation to test
> the code to make sure that it works as expected, which was what I did that
> until I found the concise statement that worked exactly as I wanted it to.

Let's take it away from letter case and to something that everyone
should be able to grok.

isalpha(...) method of builtins.str instance
    S.isalpha() -> bool

    Return True if all characters in S are alphabetic
    and there is at least one character in S, False otherwise.

isdigit(...) method of builtins.str instance
    S.isdigit() -> bool

    Return True if all characters in S are digits
    and there is at least one character in S, False otherwise.

It should be pretty obvious that there are some strings which are
neither alphabetic nor digits. Thus these two are not opposites,
despite the identical wording in the docs.

It's exactly the same with letter case. Some strings are neither
uppercase nor lowercase, and thus they'll be False on both checks.

ChrisA


From me at ixokai.io  Sat Apr 30 13:11:49 2016
From: me at ixokai.io (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 10:11:49 -0700
Subject: Not x.islower() has different output than x.isupper() in list
 output...
In-Reply-To: <5724E1CF.9060905@icloud.com>
References: <572407AE.1070703@icloud.com>
 <1461979797.3824480.593944273.0B8D8DF3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57241097.7020801@icloud.com>
 <1461998604.3888861.594056577.710E696D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <5724E1CF.9060905@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1462036309.4005755.594329209.1106AF27@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sat, Apr 30, 2016, at 09:48 AM, Christopher Reimer wrote:
> On 4/29/2016 11:43 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> > The official documentation is accurate. 
> 
> That may be true on a technical level. But the identically worded text 
> in the documentation implies otherwise. 

That's the thing -- no it doesn't. The documentation is very specific:
if all cased characters in the string are lowercase, and there's at
least one cased character.

It only seems to because you're packing a loop and test on substrings
into an operation.

   list(filter((lambda x: not x.islower()), string))

Let's unpack that. This is basically what you're doing:

    result = []
    for ch in string:
        if not ch.islower():
            result.append(ch)

You're thinking of the whole "string", but you're operating on
single-character substrings, and when " ".islower() is run, its false.
Because the two-pronged test, a) if all cased characters are lowercase
and b) there is at least one cased character. b) is failing. Ergo,
you're getting the underscores.

-- 
Stephen Hansen
  m e @ i x o k a i  . i o


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Sat Apr 30 13:34:26 2016
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Fetchinson .)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 19:34:26 +0200
Subject: web facing static text db
In-Reply-To: <neq8ibdh4rl2knja0ck4jbi469137jaakn@4ax.com>
References: <CADjSo4QJdxFP0nG1dwGZzRN8xKOSoiwdzRW3E0_SxBi65GcJdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADjSo4TuRB6Fx4ExK9Z+HYMfTfwPAr6wEqAArnwTNza6dje9bQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.232.1461970081.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <neq8ibdh4rl2knja0ck4jbi469137jaakn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <CADjSo4RKi5pOPSNmL9dMy7xkEwZ15LFEGviGQEkAJBZk2sj0zA@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/30/16, Gordon Levi <gordon at address.invalid> wrote:
> "Fetchinson ." <fetchinson at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>>Hi folks,
>>
>>I have a very specific set of requirements for a task and was
>>wondering if anyone had good suggestions for the best set of tools:
>>
>>* store text documents (about 100000 pages)
>>* the data set is static (i.e. only lookups are performed, no delete,
>>no edit, no addition)
>>* only one operation required: lookup of pages by matching words in them
>>* very simple web frontend for querying the words to be matched
>>* no authentication or authorization, frontend completely public
>>* deployment at webfaction
>>* deadline: yesterday :)
>>
>>Which web framework and db engine would you recommend?
>>
>>So far I'm familiar with turbogears but would be willing to learn
>>anything if sufficiently basic since my needs are pretty basic (I
>>think).
>>
>
> What do need that storing the documents in HTML format and Google
> Custom Search does not provide
> <https://support.google.com/customsearch/answer/2630969?hl=en>?

Wow! Thanks, I was not aware of that, sounds exactly what I need.

Thanks for all the other ideas too.

Cheers,
Daniel



-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From christopher_reimer at icloud.com  Sat Apr 30 13:36:19 2016
From: christopher_reimer at icloud.com (Christopher Reimer)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 10:36:19 -0700
Subject: Not x.islower() has different output than x.isupper() in list
 output...
In-Reply-To: <1462036309.4005755.594329209.1106AF27@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <572407AE.1070703@icloud.com>
 <1461979797.3824480.593944273.0B8D8DF3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <57241097.7020801@icloud.com>
 <1461998604.3888861.594056577.710E696D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <5724E1CF.9060905@icloud.com>
 <1462036309.4005755.594329209.1106AF27@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <5724ED13.9070606@icloud.com>

On 4/30/2016 10:11 AM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> You're thinking of the whole "string", but you're operating on 
> single-character substrings, and when " ".islower() is run, its false. 
> Because the two-pronged test, a) if all cased characters are lowercase 
> and b) there is at least one cased character. b) is failing. Ergo, 
> you're getting the underscores.

I see where the problem lies in my thinking. I went looking for a single 
line solution for the whole string. If I had constructed a for loop and 
tried to reduce it to a single line, I *may* have understood the 
relationship between the different parts. Or maybe not. Blaming the 
documentation is a lot easier. ;)

Thank you,

Chris R.


From fanjianling at gmail.com  Sat Apr 30 14:13:51 2016
From: fanjianling at gmail.com (Jianling Fan)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 12:13:51 -0600
Subject: about special characters
In-Reply-To: <572403de$0$1601$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CAJ7mry+o=PRGtM46HPGdNVqaowy3tmheJKu38nRy4y_QEjqV-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.234.1461973268.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <572403de$0$1601$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ7mryKF5N4crnz2Lu36JC=LiqCKYCtwjgoV4U_=h4=ovN6Q6w@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

Thanks very much for all your replies and sorry for the inconvience.
This is my first time to post question in this list.

I am using python 2.7 in Windows 7 Enterprise version.

Here is the the filename that cause the problem: "Decock-2013-On the
potential of ?18O and ?15N.pdf"
When I delete the "?" in the filename, the script works good.

Here is the output:

Python 2.7.2 (default, Jun 12 2011, 15:08:59) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> runfile('P:/sync.py', wdir='P:')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\spyderlib\widgets\externalshell\sitecustomize.py",
line 699, in runfile
    execfile(filename, namespace)
  File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\spyderlib\widgets\externalshell\sitecustomize.py",
line 74, in execfile
    exec(compile(scripttext, filename, 'exec'), glob, loc)
  File "P:/sync.py", line 50, in <module>
    sync_files(src, dest)
  File "P:/sync.py", line 43, in sync_files
    sync(dir_cmp)
  File "P:/sync.py", line 20, in sync
    shutil.rmtree(f_right)
  File "C:\Python27\lib\shutil.py", line 236, in rmtree
    onerror(os.listdir, path, sys.exc_info())
  File "C:\Python27\lib\shutil.py", line 234, in rmtree
    names = os.listdir(path)
WindowsError: [Error 3] The system cannot find the path specified:
'P:/mystuff\\Decock-2013-On the potential of d18O and d15N.pdf/*.*'


Here is my code to do this work: I am using this script to sync my
files between different disks.

#coding=utf-8

import filecmp, shutil, os, sys

SRC = r'C:/Disk/mystuff'
DEST = r'P:/mystuff'

IGNORE = ['Thumbs.db']

def get_cmp_paths(dir_cmp, filenames):
    return ((os.path.join(dir_cmp.left, f),
os.path.join(dir_cmp.right, f)) for f in filenames)

def sync(dir_cmp):
    for f_left, f_right in get_cmp_paths(dir_cmp, dir_cmp.right_only):
        if os.path.isfile(f_right):
            os.remove(f_right)
        else:
            shutil.rmtree(f_right)
        print('delete %s' % f_right)
    for f_left, f_right in get_cmp_paths(dir_cmp,
dir_cmp.left_only+dir_cmp.diff_files):
        if os.path.isfile(f_left):
            shutil.copy2(f_left, f_right)
        else:
            shutil.copytree(f_left, f_right)
        print('copy %s' % f_left)
    for sub_cmp_dir in dir_cmp.subdirs.values():
        sync(sub_cmp_dir)

def sync_files(src, dest, ignore=IGNORE):
    if not os.path.exists(src):
        print('= =b Please check the source directory was exist')
        print('- -b Sync file failure !!!')
        return
    if os.path.isfile(src):
        print('#_# We only support for sync directory but not a single
file,one file please do it by yourself')
        print('- -b Sync file failure !!!')
        return
    if not os.path.exists(dest):
        os.makedirs(dest)
    dir_cmp = filecmp.dircmp(src, dest, ignore=IGNORE)
    sync(dir_cmp)
    print('^_^ Sync file finished!')

if __name__ == '__main__':
    src, dest = SRC, DEST
    if len(sys.argv) == 3:
        src, dest = sys.argv[1:3]
    sync_files(src, dest)



Thanks again!


On 29 April 2016 at 19:01, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 09:33 am, Jianling Fan wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I am trying to use python 27 copying some of my folders and files to
>> another directory.
>> My code works good for other files but I have some problem to copy
>> files that have some special characters in the filename. like
>> filenames contain Greek "?"  or latin "?".
>> it always gave a error that "No such file or directory:"
>>
>> Any help will be appreciate!
>
> Please put yourself in our shoes. Read your message above, and, imagine that
> you know NOTHING else about your program than what you write above. What
> answer would you give?
>
> Please tell us what you have actually done. How do you copy the files? How
> do you enter the file names? What OS are you using?
>
>
>
> --
> Steven
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



-- 
Jianling Fan
???


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Apr 30 15:36:06 2016
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 15:36:06 -0400
Subject: about special characters
In-Reply-To: <CAJ7mryKF5N4crnz2Lu36JC=LiqCKYCtwjgoV4U_=h4=ovN6Q6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ7mry+o=PRGtM46HPGdNVqaowy3tmheJKu38nRy4y_QEjqV-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.234.1461973268.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <572403de$0$1601$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAJ7mryKF5N4crnz2Lu36JC=LiqCKYCtwjgoV4U_=h4=ovN6Q6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ng31f7$368$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/30/2016 2:13 PM, Jianling Fan wrote:

> I am using python 2.7 in Windows 7 Enterprise version.
>
> Here is the the filename that cause the problem: "Decock-2013-On the
> potential of ?18O and ?15N.pdf"
> When I delete the "?" in the filename, the script works good.

You may be able to get "?" (and other Greek characters) to work on your 
system with 2.7, but if you want to be able to work with any filename on 
Windows, get Python 3.4 or later and use text strings, not byte strings. 
You may someday run into a Name-your-title.pdf file name with other 
'strange' characters from other

Windows filenames are unicode strings and are stored, I believe, with 
utf-16 encoding.  Even in early 3.x versions, there were Windows path 
problems, for instance with east Asian characters.  Multiple 3.x patches 
seem to have fixed the problems. So merely using unicode is not, in 
general, sufficient.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy




From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Apr 30 15:42:16 2016
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 20:42:16 +0100
Subject: about special characters
In-Reply-To: <CAJ7mryKF5N4crnz2Lu36JC=LiqCKYCtwjgoV4U_=h4=ovN6Q6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ7mry+o=PRGtM46HPGdNVqaowy3tmheJKu38nRy4y_QEjqV-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.234.1461973268.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <572403de$0$1601$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAJ7mryKF5N4crnz2Lu36JC=LiqCKYCtwjgoV4U_=h4=ovN6Q6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <142f82f4-b266-3b85-f606-e1b6d3246021@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2016-04-30 19:13, Jianling Fan wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> Thanks very much for all your replies and sorry for the inconvience.
> This is my first time to post question in this list.
>
> I am using python 2.7 in Windows 7 Enterprise version.
>
> Here is the the filename that cause the problem: "Decock-2013-On the
> potential of ?18O and ?15N.pdf"
> When I delete the "?" in the filename, the script works good.
>
> Here is the output:
>
> Python 2.7.2 (default, Jun 12 2011, 15:08:59) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
> (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> runfile('P:/sync.py', wdir='P:')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>   File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\spyderlib\widgets\externalshell\sitecustomize.py",
> line 699, in runfile
>     execfile(filename, namespace)
>   File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\spyderlib\widgets\externalshell\sitecustomize.py",
> line 74, in execfile
>     exec(compile(scripttext, filename, 'exec'), glob, loc)
>   File "P:/sync.py", line 50, in <module>
>     sync_files(src, dest)
>   File "P:/sync.py", line 43, in sync_files
>     sync(dir_cmp)
>   File "P:/sync.py", line 20, in sync
>     shutil.rmtree(f_right)
>   File "C:\Python27\lib\shutil.py", line 236, in rmtree
>     onerror(os.listdir, path, sys.exc_info())
>   File "C:\Python27\lib\shutil.py", line 234, in rmtree
>     names = os.listdir(path)
> WindowsError: [Error 3] The system cannot find the path specified:
> 'P:/mystuff\\Decock-2013-On the potential of d18O and d15N.pdf/*.*'
>
>
> Here is my code to do this work: I am using this script to sync my
> files between different disks.
>
> #coding=utf-8
>
> import filecmp, shutil, os, sys
>
> SRC = r'C:/Disk/mystuff'
> DEST = r'P:/mystuff'
>
> IGNORE = ['Thumbs.db']
>
> def get_cmp_paths(dir_cmp, filenames):
>     return ((os.path.join(dir_cmp.left, f),
> os.path.join(dir_cmp.right, f)) for f in filenames)
>
> def sync(dir_cmp):
>     for f_left, f_right in get_cmp_paths(dir_cmp, dir_cmp.right_only):
>         if os.path.isfile(f_right):
>             os.remove(f_right)
>         else:
>             shutil.rmtree(f_right)
>         print('delete %s' % f_right)
>     for f_left, f_right in get_cmp_paths(dir_cmp,
> dir_cmp.left_only+dir_cmp.diff_files):
>         if os.path.isfile(f_left):
>             shutil.copy2(f_left, f_right)
>         else:
>             shutil.copytree(f_left, f_right)
>         print('copy %s' % f_left)
>     for sub_cmp_dir in dir_cmp.subdirs.values():
>         sync(sub_cmp_dir)
>
> def sync_files(src, dest, ignore=IGNORE):
>     if not os.path.exists(src):
>         print('= =b Please check the source directory was exist')
>         print('- -b Sync file failure !!!')
>         return
>     if os.path.isfile(src):
>         print('#_# We only support for sync directory but not a single
> file,one file please do it by yourself')
>         print('- -b Sync file failure !!!')
>         return
>     if not os.path.exists(dest):
>         os.makedirs(dest)
>     dir_cmp = filecmp.dircmp(src, dest, ignore=IGNORE)
>     sync(dir_cmp)
>     print('^_^ Sync file finished!')
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     src, dest = SRC, DEST
>     if len(sys.argv) == 3:
>         src, dest = sys.argv[1:3]
>     sync_files(src, dest)
>
[snip]
You're using bytestrings (str). As soon as you step out of the ASCII
range, you can face problems with which encoding it's using.

The simplest fix is to switch to using Unicode.

Start with this change:

SRC = ur'C:/Disk/mystuff'
DEST = ur'P:/mystuff'



From fanjianling at gmail.com  Sat Apr 30 15:48:05 2016
From: fanjianling at gmail.com (Jianling Fan)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 13:48:05 -0600
Subject: about special characters
In-Reply-To: <142f82f4-b266-3b85-f606-e1b6d3246021@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <CAJ7mry+o=PRGtM46HPGdNVqaowy3tmheJKu38nRy4y_QEjqV-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.234.1461973268.32212.python-list@python.org>
 <572403de$0$1601$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CAJ7mryKF5N4crnz2Lu36JC=LiqCKYCtwjgoV4U_=h4=ovN6Q6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <142f82f4-b266-3b85-f606-e1b6d3246021@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ7mryLuXy4n8kknagXd0asyh85o=6diuLrY5Z9XDre6oEoHHQ@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, it works!

This is the simplest and best way!

Thanks very much!



On 30 April 2016 at 13:42, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> On 2016-04-30 19:13, Jianling Fan wrote:
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> Thanks very much for all your replies and sorry for the inconvience.
>> This is my first time to post question in this list.
>>
>> I am using python 2.7 in Windows 7 Enterprise version.
>>
>> Here is the the filename that cause the problem: "Decock-2013-On the
>> potential of ?18O and ?15N.pdf"
>> When I delete the "?" in the filename, the script works good.
>>
>> Here is the output:
>>
>> Python 2.7.2 (default, Jun 12 2011, 15:08:59) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
>> (Intel)] on win32
>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>>>
>>>>> runfile('P:/sync.py', wdir='P:')
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>>   File
>> "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\spyderlib\widgets\externalshell\sitecustomize.py",
>> line 699, in runfile
>>     execfile(filename, namespace)
>>   File
>> "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\spyderlib\widgets\externalshell\sitecustomize.py",
>> line 74, in execfile
>>     exec(compile(scripttext, filename, 'exec'), glob, loc)
>>   File "P:/sync.py", line 50, in <module>
>>     sync_files(src, dest)
>>   File "P:/sync.py", line 43, in sync_files
>>     sync(dir_cmp)
>>   File "P:/sync.py", line 20, in sync
>>     shutil.rmtree(f_right)
>>   File "C:\Python27\lib\shutil.py", line 236, in rmtree
>>     onerror(os.listdir, path, sys.exc_info())
>>   File "C:\Python27\lib\shutil.py", line 234, in rmtree
>>     names = os.listdir(path)
>> WindowsError: [Error 3] The system cannot find the path specified:
>> 'P:/mystuff\\Decock-2013-On the potential of d18O and d15N.pdf/*.*'
>>
>>
>> Here is my code to do this work: I am using this script to sync my
>> files between different disks.
>>
>> #coding=utf-8
>>
>> import filecmp, shutil, os, sys
>>
>> SRC = r'C:/Disk/mystuff'
>> DEST = r'P:/mystuff'
>>
>> IGNORE = ['Thumbs.db']
>>
>> def get_cmp_paths(dir_cmp, filenames):
>>     return ((os.path.join(dir_cmp.left, f),
>> os.path.join(dir_cmp.right, f)) for f in filenames)
>>
>> def sync(dir_cmp):
>>     for f_left, f_right in get_cmp_paths(dir_cmp, dir_cmp.right_only):
>>         if os.path.isfile(f_right):
>>             os.remove(f_right)
>>         else:
>>             shutil.rmtree(f_right)
>>         print('delete %s' % f_right)
>>     for f_left, f_right in get_cmp_paths(dir_cmp,
>> dir_cmp.left_only+dir_cmp.diff_files):
>>         if os.path.isfile(f_left):
>>             shutil.copy2(f_left, f_right)
>>         else:
>>             shutil.copytree(f_left, f_right)
>>         print('copy %s' % f_left)
>>     for sub_cmp_dir in dir_cmp.subdirs.values():
>>         sync(sub_cmp_dir)
>>
>> def sync_files(src, dest, ignore=IGNORE):
>>     if not os.path.exists(src):
>>         print('= =b Please check the source directory was exist')
>>         print('- -b Sync file failure !!!')
>>         return
>>     if os.path.isfile(src):
>>         print('#_# We only support for sync directory but not a single
>> file,one file please do it by yourself')
>>         print('- -b Sync file failure !!!')
>>         return
>>     if not os.path.exists(dest):
>>         os.makedirs(dest)
>>     dir_cmp = filecmp.dircmp(src, dest, ignore=IGNORE)
>>     sync(dir_cmp)
>>     print('^_^ Sync file finished!')
>>
>> if __name__ == '__main__':
>>     src, dest = SRC, DEST
>>     if len(sys.argv) == 3:
>>         src, dest = sys.argv[1:3]
>>     sync_files(src, dest)
>>
> [snip]
> You're using bytestrings (str). As soon as you step out of the ASCII
> range, you can face problems with which encoding it's using.
>
> The simplest fix is to switch to using Unicode.
>
> Start with this change:
>
> SRC = ur'C:/Disk/mystuff'
> DEST = ur'P:/mystuff'
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



-- 
Jianling Fan
???


From davidgshi at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Apr 30 16:40:31 2016
From: davidgshi at yahoo.co.uk (David Shi)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 20:40:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to fill in abbreviation in one column based on state name in
 another column?
References: <225454564.8325693.1462048831951.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <225454564.8325693.1462048831951.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

I am trying to use apply to execute a lookup function, so that we can put abbreviation in a new column, in accordance to a state name in another column.
Does anyone knows how to make this to work?
Regards.
David
state_to_code = {"VERMONT": "VT", "GEORGIA": "GA", "IOWA": "IA", "Armed Forces Pacific": "AP", "GUAM": "GU",? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"KANSAS": "KS", "FLORIDA": "FL", "AMERICAN SAMOA": "AS", "NORTH CAROLINA": "NC", "HAWAII": "HI",? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"NEW YORK": "NY", "CALIFORNIA": "CA", "ALABAMA": "AL", "IDAHO": "ID", "FEDERATED STATES OF MICRONESIA": "FM",? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"Armed Forces Americas": "AA", "DELAWARE": "DE", "ALASKA": "AK", "ILLINOIS": "IL",? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"Armed Forces Africa": "AE", "SOUTH DAKOTA": "SD", "CONNECTICUT": "CT", "MONTANA": "MT", "MASSACHUSETTS": "MA",? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"PUERTO RICO": "PR", "Armed Forces Canada": "AE", "NEW HAMPSHIRE": "NH", "MARYLAND": "MD", "NEW MEXICO": "NM",? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"MISSISSIPPI": "MS", "TENNESSEE": "TN", "PALAU": "PW", "COLORADO": "CO", "Armed Forces Middle East": "AE",? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"NEW JERSEY": "NJ", "UTAH": "UT", "MICHIGAN": "MI", "WEST VIRGINIA": "WV", "WASHINGTON": "WA",? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"MINNESOTA": "MN", "OREGON": "OR", "VIRGINIA": "VA", "VIRGIN ISLANDS": "VI", "MARSHALL ISLANDS": "MH",? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"WYOMING": "WY", "OHIO": "OH", "SOUTH CAROLINA": "SC", "INDIANA": "IN", "NEVADA": "NV", "LOUISIANA": "LA",? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"NORTHERN MARIANA ISLANDS": "MP", "NEBRASKA": "NE", "ARIZONA": "AZ", "WISCONSIN": "WI", "NORTH DAKOTA": "ND",? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"Armed Forces Europe": "AE", "PENNSYLVANIA": "PA", "OKLAHOMA": "OK", "KENTUCKY": "KY", "RHODE ISLAND": "RI",? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA": "DC", "ARKANSAS": "AR", "MISSOURI": "MO", "TEXAS": "TX", "MAINE": "ME"}
#table['moa_state_name'] = map(lambda x: x.upper(), table['moa_state_name'])def convert_state(row):? ? abbrev1 = ?state_to_code(table['moa_state_name']) #'aatest'? ? if abbrev1:? ? ? ? ?return abbrev1 ##state_to_code[abbrev[0]]? ? return np.nan#print convert_state(table['moa_state_name'])
table.insert(0, "abbrev", np.nan)table['abbrev'] = table.apply(convert_state, axis=1)
print state_to_code['ARKANSAS']

From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Sat Apr 30 16:49:50 2016
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 16:49:50 -0400
Subject: How to fill in abbreviation in one column based on state name in
 another column?
In-Reply-To: <225454564.8325693.1462048831951.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <225454564.8325693.1462048831951.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <225454564.8325693.1462048831951.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+zaPHooXiH2LZYpDxdL+F-qJMGMcvk38Vu=jweMeuMP=Q@mail.gmail.com>

could you post in plaintext as its really hard to figure out what your
code is doing

On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 4:40 PM, David Shi via Python-list
<python-list at python.org> wrote:
> I am trying to use apply to execute a lookup function, so that we can put abbreviation in a new column, in accordance to a state name in another column.
> Does anyone knows how to make this to work?
> Regards.
> David
> state_to_code = {"VERMONT": "VT", "GEORGIA": "GA", "IOWA": "IA", "Armed Forces Pacific": "AP", "GUAM": "GU",                 "KANSAS": "KS", "FLORIDA": "FL", "AMERICAN SAMOA": "AS", "NORTH CAROLINA": "NC", "HAWAII": "HI",                 "NEW YORK": "NY", "CALIFORNIA": "CA", "ALABAMA": "AL", "IDAHO": "ID", "FEDERATED STATES OF MICRONESIA": "FM",                 "Armed Forces Americas": "AA", "DELAWARE": "DE", "ALASKA": "AK", "ILLINOIS": "IL",                 "Armed Forces Africa": "AE", "SOUTH DAKOTA": "SD", "CONNECTICUT": "CT", "MONTANA": "MT", "MASSACHUSETTS": "MA",                 "PUERTO RICO": "PR", "Armed Forces Canada": "AE", "NEW HAMPSHIRE": "NH", "MARYLAND": "MD", "NEW MEXICO": "NM",                 "MISSISSIPPI": "MS", "TENNESSEE": "TN", "PALAU": "PW", "COLORADO": "CO", "Armed Forces Middle East": "AE",                 "NEW JERSEY": "NJ", "UTAH": "UT", "MICHIGAN": "MI", "WEST VIRGINIA": "WV", "WASHINGTON": "WA",                 "MINNESOTA": "MN", "OREGON": "OR", "VIRGINIA": "VA", "VIRGIN ISLANDS": "VI", "MARSHALL ISLANDS": "MH",                 "WYOMING": "WY", "OHIO": "OH", "SOUTH CAROLINA": "SC", "INDIANA": "IN", "NEVADA": "NV", "LOUISIANA": "LA",                 "NORTHERN MARIANA ISLANDS": "MP", "NEBRASKA": "NE", "ARIZONA": "AZ", "WISCONSIN": "WI", "NORTH DAKOTA": "ND",                 "Armed Forces Europe": "AE", "PENNSYLVANIA": "PA", "OKLAHOMA": "OK", "KENTUCKY": "KY", "RHODE ISLAND": "RI",                 "DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA": "DC", "ARKANSAS": "AR", "MISSOURI": "MO", "TEXAS": "TX", "MAINE": "ME"}
> #table['moa_state_name'] = map(lambda x: x.upper(), table['moa_state_name'])def convert_state(row):    abbrev1 =  state_to_code(table['moa_state_name']) #'aatest'    if abbrev1:         return abbrev1 ##state_to_code[abbrev[0]]    return np.nan#print convert_state(table['moa_state_name'])
> table.insert(0, "abbrev", np.nan)table['abbrev'] = table.apply(convert_state, axis=1)
> print state_to_code['ARKANSAS']
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays


From bgailer at gmail.com  Sat Apr 30 17:11:54 2016
From: bgailer at gmail.com (Bob Gailer)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 17:11:54 -0400
Subject: How to fill in abbreviation in one column based on state name in
 another column?
In-Reply-To: <CAPM-O+zaPHooXiH2LZYpDxdL+F-qJMGMcvk38Vu=jweMeuMP=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <225454564.8325693.1462048831951.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <225454564.8325693.1462048831951.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAPM-O+zaPHooXiH2LZYpDxdL+F-qJMGMcvk38Vu=jweMeuMP=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1rxO4hzDO+kADVvA12YSV=3DJO_JJ7gNX9YVSc5HMaT-eX6A@mail.gmail.com>

1) Your code seems to be missing a lot.
2) it's better to post a small sample of the dictionary rather than the
whole thing.
3) remove the comments that don't seem to say anything useful.
4) tell us what problems you are having


From cs at zip.com.au  Sat Apr 30 19:51:32 2016
From: cs at zip.com.au (cs at zip.com.au)
Date: Sun, 1 May 2016 09:51:32 +1000
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <5724253e$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5724253e$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20160430235132.GA83556@cskk.homeip.net>

On 30Apr2016 13:23, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
>On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 12:49 pm, Ben Finney wrote:
>> Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> writes:
>>> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016, at 22:27, Rustom Mody wrote:
>>> > Instead it does some ?-assed fall-between-the-stools of both
>>>
>>> That doesn't answer the question of why, if you (Well, Ethan, but
>>> you're taking the same position here) hate pagers so much
>>
>> That's not a question relevant here; nobody inthe discussion has a
>> position fairly characterised as ?hate pagers so much?. So you're
>> arguing against a straw man.
>>
>> Rather, the position being argued is that they *do* like pagers; they
>> like pagers enough that they want the existing ?PAGER? environment
>> variable setting to remain untouched.
>
>So they want the PAGER environment variable to specify what pager they
>want...

_When_ they want a pager.

>> And, simulatenously, they want
>> Python's help to not use a pager at the interactive prompt.
>
>...so long as applications don't actually make use of that PAGER environment
>variable to determine the pager they want to use.

_When_ it is asked to use a pager.

What they (and, very often, me) want is that most things, including pydoc, to 
_NOT_ invoke a pager automatically, _unasked_.

So tools which page without asking are unwelcome, because that requires a mode 
switch when everything else (sed/grep/print/write/ls) do straight up unpaged 
output.

>(1) If you want man, and nothing else in the universe, to automatically use
>a pager, then set MANPAGER="less" (or whatever you wish to use), and unset
>PAGER.
>
>(2) If you don't want *anything* to use a pager, then unset both MANPAGER
>and PAGER. You may have to report a feature request / bug report for
>applications which force their own pager.
>
>(3) In Python specifically, you can trivially and easily tell help() to
>output directly to stdout. (At least on Linux, I haven't tested it
>elsewhere.) Simply use PAGER=cat on the command line you use to launch the
>interactive environment. This will affect no other running or future
>processes (apart from subprocesses launched from your interactive Python
>session), allowing you to keep your PAGER for everything else.
>
>(4) If you want more than that, then patches are welcome :-)

This requires terrible domain specific knowledge. What about programs other 
than man?

And setting PAGER=cat before invoking interactive python is no better, because 
it will screw with $PAGER in any subprocess spawned from that environment.

What those of use in the "my terminal emulator scrolls nicely thank you" camp 
want is that most command line things, when asked to simply print some help 
text, _print_ it and do not page it. And often would like a way to tell pydoc 
to not page, such as a pydoc specific switch (possibly an environment 
variable).

>Seriously, I'm thinking that a keyword argument to help might be useful:
>
>help(object, pager=None)
>
>where:
>- pager=None gives the current behaviour;
>- pager="foo" calls out to the external program "foo";
>- pager=callable passes the help text to callable().

I'd be asking for pager=None to look at help.default_pager, which itself might 
obey your rules above. That way help.default_pager can be a callable which 
consults $PAGER or falls back to some inbuilt pager (presumably as now), but 
which a user can sumply go:

  help.default_pager=None

at the Python prompt and have unpaged output from there on.

>I think that would make it easier to test help(). Thoughts?

Yes it would. I'm +1 _provided_ the user can set a global to tune the default 
mode, as otherwise it burdens the user with saying:

  help(foo, stdout.write)   # or "print" ?

whenever they want help. Not helpful!

Let me recite one of my favourite rules of thumb:

  If it can't be turned off, it's not a feature. - Karl Heuer

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>


From cs at zip.com.au  Sat Apr 30 20:06:28 2016
From: cs at zip.com.au (cs at zip.com.au)
Date: Sun, 1 May 2016 10:06:28 +1000
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <5722bb82$0$1600$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5722bb82$0$1600$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20160501000628.GA56167@cskk.homeip.net>

On 29Apr2016 11:40, Steven D'Aprano <steve at pearwood.info> wrote:
>On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 07:08 am, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2016-04-28, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016, at 15:39, Grant Edwards wrote:
>>>> That's fine.  If you want two or three forms of documentation then you
>>>> prepare two or three forms of documentation.
>>>>
>>>> Adding an option to run the default 'help' output through a pager or
>>>> display it in a web browser doesn't somehow force you "to compose two
>>>> forms of documentation" unless you want two forms of documentation.
>>>
>>> The point is that having "help" output at all (beyond either a cursory
>>> "see the manpage") implies two forms of documentation (given you already
>>> have a manpage), and some people choose not to do that, instead
>>> launching directly into the manpage (which implies using a pager)
>>
>> But I'm saying that having --help output the manpage should not imply
>> using a pager.
>
>
>What manpage? I don't have a manpage. The only help my application has is
>whatever it outputs (which it gets from its docstring).
>
>What is a good place where I can find out more about writing manpages?

"man 5 man"? Describes the internal format of man pages (the [ntg]roff -man 
macro set). Many people use an intermediate more human friendly format and use 
a tool to transcribe -man format text. For standalone things I find Perl's 
"POD" format fairly easy to use (the pod2man tool itself does have shortcomings 
though).

>> If --help is going to output the manpage, then I'm saying it can (and
>> should) be written to stdout without use of pager (and it shouldn't
>> have escape sequences or backspaces in it either).  The Unix way is
>> that the output from whatever --help should be plain text written to
>> stdout (regardless of length).
>
>Agree. The -h/--help option will output plain text to stdout.

Yay.

>> If you want to output the man page, this can be accomplished simply by
>> doing someting like:
>>   os.environ["GROFF_NO_SGR"] = "1";
>>   os.system("man -Tascii mycmd | col -bx");
>
>That doesn't work for me:
>[steve at ando ~]$ man -Tasciii rm
>man: invalid option -- T

Yes, it is nonportable. Presumes groff possibly, and GNU "man".

>However, this almost works:
>
>man -Pcat rm
>
>appears to output unformatted, plain text to stdout.

As should:

  man rm | cat

without obscure options.

>However, if you capture
>the output (say, to a file) you'll see it is full of backspaces, e.g.:
>
>N^HNA^HAM^HME^HE
>       rm - remove files or directories
>
>S^HSY^HYN^HNO^HOP^HPS^HSI^HIS^HS
>       r^Hrm^Hm [_^HO_^HP_^HT_^HI_^HO_^HN]... _^HF_^HI_^HL_^HE...

Yes.

>instead of
>
>NAME
>        rm - remove files or directories
[...]
>
>Apparently `less` understands overstriking and displays it as bold (or
>underlining in the case of _^H. That's very clever, but how do I get actual
>plain text out of `man` without the backspaces?

That is what Grant Edwards' "col -bx" does. (Actually, col can do more, because 
tables also do funky things; let us not go there.)

But removing the overstriking is pretty easy even without col. My "unbs" script 
does it, and its core operation is this:

  s/[^^H]^H//g

Those ^Hs are literal backspace characters: remove any non-backspace followed 
by a backspace. Full script here:

  https://bitbucket.org/cameron_simpson/css/src/tip/bin/unbs

>> If I want the --help output run through a pager, I'll do it myself.
>
>Easy enough to say for Linux/Unix users, but there are those who might not
>have a pager that is easy to use, or at all. pydoc goes to considerable
>trouble to work out the best pager available for your platform, falling
>back to its own if needed. To use that is literally a two liner:
>
>import pydoc
>pydoc.pager(HELPTEXT)

Aye, but what is wanted by some of us is an easy incantation to tune that to 
plain old sys.stdout.write in some flavour.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>


From random832 at fastmail.com  Sat Apr 30 20:41:51 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 20:41:51 -0400
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <20160430235132.GA83556@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <5724253e$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <20160430235132.GA83556@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <1462063311.237252.594520729.52D9D362@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sat, Apr 30, 2016, at 19:51, cs at zip.com.au wrote:
> _When_ they want a pager.

Why would they need an environment variable at all in that case, rather
than explicitly invoking the pager by name?

To me, *not* having PAGER=cat signifies that someone *does* want a
pager. That may be a crappy convention, but it's the one we're stuck
with.

> And setting PAGER=cat before invoking interactive python is no better,
> because 
> it will screw with $PAGER in any subprocess spawned from that
> environment.

But why would you not *also* want PAGER=cat in those subprocesses? You
don't want those things to spawn pagers that you haven't asked
explicitly for, either, right?

I don't get the "It's terrible if I run man or git it won't open a
pager, but I don't want pydoc to use a pager" viewpoint. It just doesn't
make any sense to me.

> Let me recite one of my favourite rules of thumb:
> 
>   If it can't be turned off, it's not a feature. - Karl Heuer

You turn it off by setting PAGER=cat. The fact that pydoc uses a pager
is the *same* feature as the fact that git and man do.


From grant.b.edwards at gmail.com  Sat Apr 30 22:30:40 2016
From: grant.b.edwards at gmail.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 1 May 2016 02:30:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
References: <5724253e$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <20160430235132.GA83556@cskk.homeip.net>
 <1462063311.237252.594520729.52D9D362@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <ng3pof$5ut$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2016-05-01, Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 30, 2016, at 19:51, cs at zip.com.au wrote:
>> _When_ they want a pager.
>
> Why would they need an environment variable at all in that case, rather
> than explicitly invoking the pager by name?

We don't want to use a PAGER variable to specify when we want a pager
and when we don't want a pager.  If we want a pager we append "| less"
to the command.  If we don't want a pager, we don't append that to the
command.

For historical reasons, "man" invokes a pager by default.  I'm not
crazy about that. If you want to argue that it's being inconsistent
then you're right: man shouldn't invoke a pager either.

-- 
Grant



From random832 at fastmail.com  Sat Apr 30 23:46:28 2016
From: random832 at fastmail.com (Random832)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 23:46:28 -0400
Subject: What should Python apps do when asked to show help?
In-Reply-To: <ng3pof$5ut$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <5724253e$0$22142$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <20160430235132.GA83556@cskk.homeip.net>
 <1462063311.237252.594520729.52D9D362@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <ng3pof$5ut$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1462074388.273747.594588777.5E705539@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sat, Apr 30, 2016, at 22:30, Grant Edwards wrote:
> We don't want to use a PAGER variable to specify when we want a pager
> and when we don't want a pager.  If we want a pager we append "| less"
> to the command.  If we don't want a pager, we don't append that to the
> command.

Setting PAGER=cat - permanently, in your profile, and never ever
changing it - gives this result, yet it's described by some people here
as "So I have to cripple my shell [...]?" What is crippled? Evidently
you're not "we", since this "crippled" state of affairs seems to be a
perfectly acceptable one to you.