Incompatible idioms: relative imports, top-level program file

[wxjmfauth at gmail.com]

Le samedi 7 février 2015 04:13:44 UTC+1, Rustom Mody a écrit :
> On Saturday, February 7, 2015 at 7:35:12 AM UTC+5:30, Ben Finney wrote:
> > Ethan Furman  writes:
> > 
> > > On 02/06/2015 04:44 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> > > > A program will often have enough complexity that its implementation
> > > > occupies several sub-modules. There's no need to explose those in a
> > > > site package, they normally only need to be local to the
> > > > application.
> > >
> > > If they are not in the Python module path, how are they imported at
> > > all?
> > 
> > Only absolute imports use the module search path. The whole point of
> > relative imports is to import a module within the same (or a sub-)
> > package, without modifying the search path.
> > 
> >     <URL:https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0328/>
> > 
> > > > Python deliberately divorces the top-level module from its package,
> > > > so it can't access its own relative modules!
> > >
> > > My understanding is that imports is for libraries [1], and libraries
> > > must be in sys.path.
> > 
> > That's the arbitrary limitation I'm pointing out, yes. The program's
> > private implementation modules should not need to be in the global
> > module search path, merely to allow the top-level program to import
> > them.
> > 
> > It's contradictory to present relative imports with the justification
> > they are for intra-package imports, and then cripple a top-level module
> > so it can't access its own implementation modules via relative imports.
> 
> Thanks Ben for these points.
> 
> We techies need to always slide the rheostat along:
> 
> 1. I am dumb
> 2. I am ignorant - need to read up some
> 3. Stuff is complex - more to read up
> 4. Stuff is complicated - after all the reading up, some general ideas may 
> get clear but there remain all sorts of dark nooks and crannies
> 5. Stuff is a complete bloody mess - anyone who claims to understand, doesn't understand and doesn't understand that he doesn't understand.
> [Think Stroustrup saying something to the effect it takes a lifetime to learn C++ !]
> 
> Your points and the earlier thread have helped me to slide the rheostat a 
> couple of notches down!
> 
> My analysis of the problem:
> 
> Python docs are a model of clarity... mostly.
> They fail when the rubber hits the road - OS-specific stuff.
> 
> In the attempt at keeping the docs generic, when things like how the 'insides'
> of python map to the 'outsides' - file-system-mapping - I find the docs are sorely inadequate. [You are of course free to slide my rheostat up :-) ]
> 
> There is on the one hand python modules/packages mechanism with all the 
> hell of dozens of incompatible versions of setuptools/distribute/distutils etc.
> 
> On the other there is the OS-specific practices/policy such as
> https://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/
> 
> And the dark unexplored territory in between.
> [Its a research project to figure out clashes between pip and apt]
> 
> Hopefully python-devs will give up trying to be generic in this area and start
> documenting these things in an OS-specific way.
> 
> Yeah I know it can be significantly more of a babel than just:
> Windows - This-a-way
> Linux - That-a-way
> 
> eg:
> - Mismatch between say Fedora and Debian
> - Different 32-64 bit path-disambiguation on different windows systems
> - etc
> 
> Still... we need to bite the bullet
> 
> Since this has been somewhat of a rant I should say:
> Wherever comparable to python we may look, its just like this or worse.
> 
> Perl/Ruby are probably slightly more mature
> Haskell is much worse - search for "cabal hell" 
> Latex is probably about the same: eg a debian texlive bugreport of mine:
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-tex-maint/2014/06/msg00029.html
> followed by unhelpful/improper response of the debian-dev

I'm still scratching my head on how to install ipython.
For me it's blackbox.

I tested, reported, worked on and with all wxPython versions
during years (from ver 2.0 up to 2.9). Now, I'm unable to
install wxPhoenix.