Explanation of list reference

[Rustom Mody]

On Monday, February 17, 2014 8:58:23 AM UTC+5:30, Roy Smith wrote:
>  Chris Angelico wrote:

> > > The correct statement is "all values are objects", or "all data is 
> > > objects".
> > > When people mistakenly say "everything is an object", they are implicitly
> > > only thinking about data.
> > > That said, "all data is objects" is really mostly useful in contrast to
> > > other languages where some data is objects and some is not.
> > Part of the trouble is that some code is (represented by) objects. A
> > function is an object, ergo it's data; a module is an object (though
> > that's different); a class is an object; but no other block of code
> > is.

> Lambda?

> > So when does code become data? When it's represented by an object.

> OK, now take somebody who knows lisp and try to explain to him or her 
> why Python's eval() doesn't mean data is code.  Yeah, I know that's 
> pushing things a bit, but I'm trying to point out that people come into 
> things with pre-conceived notions that are hard to shake (the psychology 
> of learning people would call this the Law of Primacy).

More true than you (probably) know.
No Ive not seen a newcomer to python who is an old hand at lisp*

What Ive seen is:
25 years ago a 'newcomer' -- like all python objects are objects -- was 
a newcomer.  One of the things I learnt early was that kids were terrified
of a beastie that has two modes -- one in which it beeps and the other
in which it corrupts the file -- also called 'vi.'  Add to that C and pointers
and all that and it was just too much.  So my first assignment was not
programming but just to type a poem.

Nowadays the 'newcomers' come with half a dozen computers -- including the
phones in their pockets.  They know all sorts of technologies that I dont
-- Whats a raspberry-pi or an xbox? I frankly dont know more than the names
All of them seem to use their phones more savvily than I do!

So I cannot even effectively evaluate what percentage of their
knowledge is ok, what confused and what balderdash.

No -- a clean slate is not a realistic luxury in 2014.


* with the exception of yours truly 12 years ago