Teaching python to non-programmers

[Rustom Mody]

On Friday, April 11, 2014 4:10:22 AM UTC+5:30, Rhodri James wrote:
> Sorry your post was the straw to break the camel's back this week, but it  
> is a complete pain to the rest of us.  I have more than once considered  
> getting my reader to automatically discard anything with  
> "@googlegroups.com" in the message ID just to reduce the aggravation.

I had a colleague at the university who had taught "System Programming" for the 
fifth year running. One day he confided to us (other colleagues):
  I think I am losing it...
  I am getting impatient and am inclined to tell the class:
      "Ive taught all this to you (so many times!) before
  Until I realize its not this class!!

> The wiki page https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython goes into  
> some detail of what the rest of us find annoying, and how to fix the  
> problems.  

So we need to... (one of)
- Patiently point out that link to each newcomer here
- Silently put up
- Express 'last straw' irritation and get called a jerk
- Canvas with python list owners to stop GG
- Canvas with Google to modify else shut down GG
- Your choice here

> I've left the double-spacing that you quoting Mark produced so  
> you can see that part of the problem -- if you want to understand why it  
> is so hated, imagine that done to a screenful of Python script, then  
> quoted by a few more people on GG, until you're only getting half a dozen  
> lines of code (or text) on the screen.  That sort of thing is hard work to
> read, and not many bother, and yes, it really does happen.

Its no use.
GG hides all the double-spaced, top-posted stuff in a very small font 
"show quoted text". If you want to show it more effectively you need to do 
something like this (or point to the mailing list archive)

> On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 21:52:53 +0100, Pete Bee wrote:
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- >
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- >>
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- >> Just awesome, not only do we have double line spacing and single line
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- >>
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- >> paragraphs, we've also got top posting, oh boy am I a happy bunny :)
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- >>
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- >> I'll leave someone3 else to explain, I just can't be bothered.
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- >>
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- >>
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- >
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- > Do you get paid to be a jerk, or is it just for yuks?  If the latter,  
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- > you're not funny.
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> Top posting is generally poor netiquette, thank you for not doing it this  
> time.

There are cultures -- far more pervasive than USENET in 2014 -- where
top posting is the norm, eg
- Gmail makes top posting the norm. Compare the figures of gmail and Usenet users
- Corporate cultures more or less require top posting -- helped by MS Outlook
  Else it looks like dishonesty/dissimulation/hiding
- Personally I am on different groups. I tend to top post by default. And its
  as strange and bizarre there as its required minimum etiquette here

> Unfortunately you fell into another trap GG lays for you by not  
> handling attributions properly.  Or at all this time.


[Personally] Double spacing bothers me least, top posting more, non/mis-attribution most