Default Value

[Rick Johnson]

On Friday, June 21, 2013 5:49:51 PM UTC-5, MRAB wrote:
> I notice that you've omitted any mention of how you'd know that the
> argument was mutable.

My argument has always been that mutables should not be
passed into subroutines as default arguments because bad
things can happen. And Python's excuse of saving the poor
dummies is no excuse.

It does not matter if we are passing the arguments into the
current implementation of "python functions which maintain
state of default mutables arguments between successive
calls" or in a more desirable system of truly "stateless
subroutines".

I also believe that a programmer should not be prevented
from passing mutable default arguments, but if he does, I'm
not going to provide any sort of protection -- other than
possibly throwing up a warning message.

Now, YOU, and everyone else, cannot destroy the main points
of my argument because the points are in fact rock solid,
however, what you will do is to focus in one small detail,
one little tiny (perceived) weakness in the armor, and you
will proceed to destroy that small detail (in this case how
i will determine mutability), and hope that the destruction
of this insignificant detail will start a chain-reaction
that will propagate out and bring down my entire position.

So you want me to tell you how to query the mutability of an
object... Ha Ha Ha! Sorry, but that's not going to happen!

Why should i help the developers of this language. What have
they done for me?  Hmm, let's see. They called me names.
Trolled up my posts. Written me off. Refused to answer my
questions. Been absolutely rude. etc, etc... Banned me from
lists i've never posted on and then proclaim the list is
free and open to all... BS!

WOULD YOU OFFER ASSISTANCE TO PEOPLE THAT HAVE TREATED YOU THIS WAY?  
 
And let's just be honest. You don't want my assistance. You
just want me to fumble the ball. Then you can use that
fumble as an excuse to write me off. Nice try!

You want to gain my respect? Then start engaging in honest
debates. Start admitting that yes, somethings about Python
are not only undesirable, they're just plain wrong. 

Stop calling me a troll when i am not. And not just me, stop
calling other people trolls too! Stop using the personal
attacks and straw man arguments.  

Finally, get the core devs to realize that this list matters
and they need to participate (including you know who!)