From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 00:20:55 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 14:20:55 +1000
Subject: parse an environment file
In-Reply-To: <CANy1k1i7XA3pTGeZeWk8V4osPkRoWxkSQJehhix9nHzDzO3HTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANy1k1i7XA3pTGeZeWk8V4osPkRoWxkSQJehhix9nHzDzO3HTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo-3d=ZQa9LRBpWNE10FDLk2_k9YbP3tepkjSVNE0k-Vg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Jason Friedman <jason at powerpull.net> wrote:
> $ env
>
> produces about 100 entries, most of which are provided by my .bashrc;
> cron provides only a limited number of environment variables.
>
> I want my python 3.2.2 script, called via cron, to know what those
> additional variables are.  How?

Looking into my crystal ball, I'm wondering if perhaps what you're
asking is for your cron job to have environment variables that aren't
set by cron, ones that you can see in your bash environment. This is a
common issue (usually with $PATH), and by no means Python-specific. A
quick web search will bring up some results, for instance:

http://www.google.com/search?q=cron+environment+variables
http://duckduckgo.com/?q=cron+environment+variables
http://www.bing.com/search?q=cron+environment+variables

If this isn't what you're asking about, please consider clarifying
your question :)

Chris Angelico


From peterfarrell66 at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 00:44:30 2012
From: peterfarrell66 at gmail.com (Peter Farrell)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 21:44:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Can't import modules
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1694.1349061544.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <36813ff7-68b9-44eb-9b25-7c13ae739566@googlegroups.com>
	<5068a9e0$0$6915$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
	<2e36e097-a43f-43b4-98a6-8da999c39c21@googlegroups.com>
	<5068f109$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<de7f0448-d56d-4353-af72-a25f3f802f7f@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1694.1349061544.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6edd4676-e4e8-4f1a-b82b-4699ed470792@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 8:19:28 PM UTC-7, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 09/30/2012 09:35 PM, Peter Farrell wrote:
> 
> > On Sunday, September 30, 2012 6:25:29 PM UTC-7, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> >> On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 17:35:02 -0700, Peter Farrell wrote:
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> Thanks for trying to help, everybody. Sorry I didn't post the whole
> 
> >>> error message. Now my problem is I just installed VPython and I'm trying
> 
> >>> to run the very first example, bounce.py which I located. I opened it
> 
> >>> and ran it in Idle. I got this message:
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> In general, any time you get unexpected or unusual errors in IDLE, you 
> 
> >> should try running the same code without IDLE, just at the regular Python 
> 
> >> prompt.
> 
> >> <SNIP>
> 
> > Thanks again for the help. I entered the import statements you suggested into the Python Shell and they gave me the same error message. (Neither did visual_all, but of course the print statement worked.)
> 
> 
> 
> Don't run it in the Python Shell, and don't use IDLE at all.  Run your
> 
> test either at the cmd window, or from plain Python's interactive
> 
> interpreter, or maybe from VIDLE.
> 
> 
> 
> >From the official download page: 
> 
> http://www.vpython.org/contents/download_windows.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       """How to run VPython
> 
> 
> 
>   *
> 
> 
> 
>     Start the program editor with the "VIDLE for Python" shortcut on the
> 
>     desktop
> 
>        or on the Start menu.
> 
> 
> 
>   *
> 
> 
> 
>     Open an example program -- for example, bounce2.py.
> 
> 
> 
>   *
> 
> 
> 
>     Press F5 to run (or use the Run menu).
> 
> 
> 
> """
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Since I use Python 3.2.3 I've had trouble with programs and modules designed for Python 2 and many programs don't work on my 64-bit system.
> 
> >
> 
> > I was hoping it was a common error that newbies encounter.
> 
> >
> 
> > Thanks again, Python fans. I'll keep you posted on my progress!
> 
> VPython has separate versions for Python 2.7 and 3.2  Hopefully you
> 
> downloaded the 3.2 version, since you're running it in c:\python32
> 
> 
> 
> Also, these are for the 32bit version of CPython.  So double-check which
> 
> one you've got installed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> DaveA
Yes, I downloaded the 3.2 version but on 64-bit. None of the 32-bit Python programs I've installed have worked. 

VPython didn't install a VIDLE icon on my desktop. An earlier version did, but then it said it couldn't find the .exe file to work!

I've sent a message to the VPython groups. I'm looking forward to using this program, when it finally works!

Thanks again,

Peter


From peterfarrell66 at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 00:44:30 2012
From: peterfarrell66 at gmail.com (Peter Farrell)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 21:44:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Can't import modules
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1694.1349061544.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <36813ff7-68b9-44eb-9b25-7c13ae739566@googlegroups.com>
	<5068a9e0$0$6915$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
	<2e36e097-a43f-43b4-98a6-8da999c39c21@googlegroups.com>
	<5068f109$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<de7f0448-d56d-4353-af72-a25f3f802f7f@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1694.1349061544.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6edd4676-e4e8-4f1a-b82b-4699ed470792@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 8:19:28 PM UTC-7, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 09/30/2012 09:35 PM, Peter Farrell wrote:
> 
> > On Sunday, September 30, 2012 6:25:29 PM UTC-7, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> >> On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 17:35:02 -0700, Peter Farrell wrote:
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> Thanks for trying to help, everybody. Sorry I didn't post the whole
> 
> >>> error message. Now my problem is I just installed VPython and I'm trying
> 
> >>> to run the very first example, bounce.py which I located. I opened it
> 
> >>> and ran it in Idle. I got this message:
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> In general, any time you get unexpected or unusual errors in IDLE, you 
> 
> >> should try running the same code without IDLE, just at the regular Python 
> 
> >> prompt.
> 
> >> <SNIP>
> 
> > Thanks again for the help. I entered the import statements you suggested into the Python Shell and they gave me the same error message. (Neither did visual_all, but of course the print statement worked.)
> 
> 
> 
> Don't run it in the Python Shell, and don't use IDLE at all.  Run your
> 
> test either at the cmd window, or from plain Python's interactive
> 
> interpreter, or maybe from VIDLE.
> 
> 
> 
> >From the official download page: 
> 
> http://www.vpython.org/contents/download_windows.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       """How to run VPython
> 
> 
> 
>   *
> 
> 
> 
>     Start the program editor with the "VIDLE for Python" shortcut on the
> 
>     desktop
> 
>        or on the Start menu.
> 
> 
> 
>   *
> 
> 
> 
>     Open an example program -- for example, bounce2.py.
> 
> 
> 
>   *
> 
> 
> 
>     Press F5 to run (or use the Run menu).
> 
> 
> 
> """
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Since I use Python 3.2.3 I've had trouble with programs and modules designed for Python 2 and many programs don't work on my 64-bit system.
> 
> >
> 
> > I was hoping it was a common error that newbies encounter.
> 
> >
> 
> > Thanks again, Python fans. I'll keep you posted on my progress!
> 
> VPython has separate versions for Python 2.7 and 3.2  Hopefully you
> 
> downloaded the 3.2 version, since you're running it in c:\python32
> 
> 
> 
> Also, these are for the 32bit version of CPython.  So double-check which
> 
> one you've got installed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> DaveA
Yes, I downloaded the 3.2 version but on 64-bit. None of the 32-bit Python programs I've installed have worked. 

VPython didn't install a VIDLE icon on my desktop. An earlier version did, but then it said it couldn't find the .exe file to work!

I've sent a message to the VPython groups. I'm looking forward to using this program, when it finally works!

Thanks again,

Peter


From cjgohlke at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 02:10:47 2012
From: cjgohlke at gmail.com (cjgohlke at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 23:10:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Can't import modules
In-Reply-To: <2e36e097-a43f-43b4-98a6-8da999c39c21@googlegroups.com>
References: <36813ff7-68b9-44eb-9b25-7c13ae739566@googlegroups.com>
	<5068a9e0$0$6915$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
	<2e36e097-a43f-43b4-98a6-8da999c39c21@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <550089ae-edde-447d-a977-712bc4125acb@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 5:35:02 PM UTC-7, Peter Farrell wrote:
> Thanks for trying to help, everybody. Sorry I didn't post the whole error message. Now my problem is I just installed VPython and I'm trying to run the very first example, bounce.py which I located. I opened it and ran it in Idle. I got this message:
> 
> 
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> 
>   File "C:\Python32\Lib\site-packages\visual\examples\bounce.py", line 1, in <module>
> 
>     from visual import *
> 
>   File "C:\Python32\lib\site-packages\visual\__init__.py", line 1, in <module>
> 
>     from .visual_all import *
> 
>   File "C:\Python32\lib\site-packages\visual\visual_all.py", line 1, in <module>
> 
>     from vis import version
> 
>   File "C:\Python32\lib\site-packages\vis\__init__.py", line 3, in <module>
> 
>     from .cvisual import (vector, dot, mag, mag2, norm, cross, rotate,
> 
> SystemError: initialization of cvisual raised unreported exception
> 
> 

Works for me on win-amd64-3.2. 

Do you have the numpy package installed? The cvisual extension module uses the numpy C API. The SystemError is expected if numpy is not installed.

Install numpy-MKL-1.6.2.win-amd64-py3.2.?exe from http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#numpy if you are using VPython-5.74.win-amd64-py3.2.?exe.

Christoph

> I'm not a programmer, just a math teacher/tutor who's trying to teach my students to understand math through using something real like Python. I'll keep you posted on my progress.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you in advance for your help!
> 
> 
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> 
> On Sunday, September 30, 2012 1:22:31 PM UTC-7, Hans Mulder wrote:
> 
> > On 30/09/12 21:42:37, Peter Farrell wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > > I'm still new to Python, so here's another easy one. After I save something
> 
> > 
> 
> > > I've done as a .py file, how do I import it into something else I work on?
> 
> > 
> 
> > > Every time I try to import something other than turtle or math, I get this error message:
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 'module' object is not callable
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > What am I doing wrong?
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > For starters, you're not showing us any code.
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > The error message suggests that you have successfully imported
> 
> > 
> 
> > a module, and you then try to use the module as if it were a
> 
> > 
> 
> > callable.  That won't work: modules are not callable.
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > My crystal ball says that you may have been a Java programmer
> 
> > 
> 
> > in an earlier life.  In Java, a file must define exactly one
> 
> > 
> 
> > class, and the class must have the same name as the file.
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Python is not Java.  In Python, a file may define one class,
> 
> > 
> 
> > or twenty, or none at all.  To avoid confusion, do not give
> 
> > 
> 
> > any of your classes the same name as any of your files.
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Hope this helps,
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > -- HansM



From pulsarpietro at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 04:14:31 2012
From: pulsarpietro at gmail.com (pedr0)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 01:14:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How write a IGMP V3 request
Message-ID: <ea96edef-16e2-4800-b44b-ecd1d4b15eb4@googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I wrote this piece of code but I am not able to modify it in order to use IGMPV3 
and use the source feature of IGMPV3, how can I add a membership for a group on an interface for specified source ?

Something like this piece of code (C under Linux):

setsockopt(fd,SOL_IP,MCAST_JOIN_SOURCE_GROUP, &group_source_req,
                                sizeof(group_source_req));



import socket
import fcntl
import struct
import sys

def get_ip_address(ifname):
    s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
    return socket.inet_ntoa(fcntl.ioctl(
        s.fileno(),
        0x8915,  # SIOCGIFADDR
        struct.pack('256s', ifname[:15])
    )[20:24])

if len(sys.argv) < 3:
        print 'Usage : [MCAST_ADDR] [PORT] [IFNAME]'
        sys.exit(1)

MCAST_GRP = sys.argv[1]
MCAST_PORT = int(sys.argv[2])
IF = sys.argv[3]

ip_if = get_ip_address(IF)
packet = 0
print("Capturing from "+IF+"("+ip_if+") group "+MCAST_GRP+":"+str(MCAST_PORT))
sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM, socket.IPPROTO_UDP)
sock.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
sock.bind(('', MCAST_PORT))
sock.setsockopt(socket.IPPROTO_IP, socket.IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIP, socket.inet_aton(MCAST_GRP)+socket.inet_aton(ip_if))

while True:
        try:
                sock.recv(1024)
                print '1K received'
                packet = packet +1
        except:
                print 'Received '+str(packet*1024)+' bytes'
                sock.setsockopt(socket.IPPROTO_IP, socket.IP_DROP_MEMBERSHIP, socket.inet_aton(MCAST_GRP)+socket.inet_aton(ip_if))
                sys.exit(0)



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Oct  1 04:19:37 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 09:19:37 +0100
Subject: Slicing iterables in sub-generators without loosing elements
In-Reply-To: <040cf4f0-e6de-45b1-add4-462c02fc2c7f@googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.1636.1348935354.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<040cf4f0-e6de-45b1-add4-462c02fc2c7f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k4bjj1$tls$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 01/10/2012 01:58, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
>
> Your question seems vague to me. If you know you are storing
> only immutable tuples in a list, then the way to iterate is simple.
>

Does Python have a magic method that let's me use mutable tuples?  I'd 
also like immutable lists.  Is it worth raising a feature request on the 
bug tracker?

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Oct  1 04:28:54 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 09:28:54 +0100
Subject: Coexistence of Python 2.x and 3.x on same OS
In-Reply-To: <k4b1av$rgb$1@dont-email.me>
References: <k4a5m9$l2k$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.1681.1349033884.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k4b1av$rgb$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <k4bk46$2ge$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 01/10/2012 04:06, Edward Diener wrote:
> On 9/30/2012 3:38 PM, Andrew Berg wrote:
>> Unix-based OSes should already obey the shebang line, and on Windows,
>> there's py.exe in 3.3 that will launch the intended version based on
>> that shebang line.
>
> The problem with that is that one has to already being using 3.3 to use
> this facility. I was hoping for a solution which was backwards
> compatible with Python 2.x.
>

You don't need 3.3 to get py.exe.  I've been running it for months, it's 
available here https://bitbucket.org/vinay.sajip/pylauncher/downloads

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Oct  1 04:36:19 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 09:36:19 +0100
Subject: Can't import modules
In-Reply-To: <5068f109$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <36813ff7-68b9-44eb-9b25-7c13ae739566@googlegroups.com>
	<5068a9e0$0$6915$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
	<2e36e097-a43f-43b4-98a6-8da999c39c21@googlegroups.com>
	<5068f109$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <k4bkhs$5mr$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 01/10/2012 02:25, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 17:35:02 -0700, Peter Farrell wrote:
>
>> Thanks for trying to help, everybody. Sorry I didn't post the whole
>> error message. Now my problem is I just installed VPython and I'm trying
>> to run the very first example, bounce.py which I located. I opened it
>> and ran it in Idle. I got this message:
>
> In general, any time you get unexpected or unusual errors in IDLE, you

>
> In Windows, I *think* that if you run "python" (or perhaps "python32")
> from the Start Menu, it will open an interactive prompt similar to IDLE.

Just python.  With the arrival of pylauncher 
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0397/ you can also type py [options].

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Mon Oct  1 06:00:04 2012
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 12:00:04 +0200
Subject: parse an environment file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1685.1349050278.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1685.1349050278.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <466oj9-id6.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 01.10.2012 02:11, schrieb Jason Friedman:
> $ crontab -l
> * * * * * env
>
> This produces mail with the following contents:
>
[...]
> SHELL=/bin/sh
         ^^^^^^^
[...]
>
> On the other hand
>
> $ env
>
> produces about 100 entries, most of which are provided by my .bashrc;

bash != sh

Instead of running a script in default POSIX shell, you might be able to 
run it in bash, which will then read your ~/.bashrc (verify that from 
the docs, I'm not 100% sure). Maybe it is as easy as changing the first 
line to '#!/bin/bash'.

> I want my python 3.2.2 script, called via cron, to know what those
> additional variables are.

To be honest, I would reconsider the approach. You could patch the cron 
invokation, but that still won't fix any other invokations like starting 
it from a non-bash shell, filemanager, atd etc. You could instead set 
these variables in a different place that is considered by more 
applications. I wonder if maybe ~/.profile would be such a place.

Alternatively, assuming these environment variables are just for your 
Python program, you could store these settings in a separate 
configuration file instead. Environment variables are always a bit like 
using globals instead of function parameters.


Good luck!

Uli



From alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr  Mon Oct  1 06:16:00 2012
From: alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (Alain Ketterlin)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 12:16:00 +0200
Subject: parse an environment file
References: <mailman.1685.1349050278.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87ehlih50f.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>

Jason Friedman <jason at powerpull.net> writes:

[...]
> I want my python 3.2.2 script, called via cron, to know what those
> additional variables are.  How?

This is not a python question. Have a look at the crontab(5) man page,
it's all explained there.

-- Alain.


From jason at powerpull.net  Mon Oct  1 10:12:50 2012
From: jason at powerpull.net (Jason Friedman)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 08:12:50 -0600
Subject: parse an environment file
In-Reply-To: <CANy1k1i7XA3pTGeZeWk8V4osPkRoWxkSQJehhix9nHzDzO3HTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANy1k1i7XA3pTGeZeWk8V4osPkRoWxkSQJehhix9nHzDzO3HTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANy1k1g1dt6GQR80LWMkBt+YXzZXxtkUSV=qamWsS8mZXiyaAA@mail.gmail.com>

> I want my python 3.2.2 script, called via cron, to know what those
> additional variables are.  How?

Thank you for the feedback.  A crontab line of

* * * * * . /path/to/export_file && /path/to/script.py

does indeed work, but for various reasons this approach will not
always be available to me.

Let me restate my question.  I have a file that looks like this:
export VAR1=foo
export VAR2=bar
# Comment
export VAR3=${VAR1}${VAR2}

I want this:
my_dict = {'VAR1': 'foo', 'VAR2': 'bar', 'VAR3': 'foobar'}

I can roll my own, but I'm thinking there is a module or existing code
that does this.  I looked at the os and sys and configparse modules
but did not see it.


From overhaalsgang_24_bob at me.com  Mon Oct  1 10:19:27 2012
From: overhaalsgang_24_bob at me.com (BobAalsma)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 07:19:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to apply the user's HTML environment in a Python programme?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1014.1348236929.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <4382e132-4eb5-4733-9fed-535e704f2175@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1006.1348233763.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<b6b4f390-1f33-452d-9d78-5681f4557d96@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1008.1348234570.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<3de0aac0-d7f2-4990-9428-54c89b143b9a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1014.1348236929.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4be2f2ac-c061-48d7-baf1-212e28f2f5ec@googlegroups.com>

Op vrijdag 21 september 2012 16:15:30 UTC+2 schreef Joel Goldstick het volgende:
> On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 9:58 AM, BobAalsma wrote:
> 
> > Op vrijdag 21 september 2012 15:36:11 UTC+2 schreef Jerry Hill het volgende:
> 
> >> On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 9:31 AM, BobAalsma wrote:
> 
> >>
> 
> >> > Thanks, Joel, yes, but as far as I'm aware these would all require the Python programme to have the user's username and password (or "credentials"), which I wanted to avoid.
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> No matter what you do, your web service is going to have to
> 
> >>
> 
> >> authenticate with the remote web site.  The details of that
> 
> >>
> 
> >> authentication are going to vary with each remote web site you want to
> 
> >>
> 
> >> connect to.
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> --
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Jerry
> 
> >
> 
> > Hmm, from the previous posts I get the impression that I could best solve this by asking the user for the specific combination of username, password and URL + promising not to keep any of that...
> 
> >
> 
> > OK, that does sound doable - thank you all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I recommend that you write your program to read pages that are not
> 
> protected.  Once you get that working, you can go back and figure out
> 
> how you want to get the username/password from your 'friends' and add
> 
> that in.  Also look up Beautiful Soup (version 4) for a great library
> 
> to parse the pages that you retrieve
> 
> >
> 
> > Bob
> 
> > --
> 
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Joel Goldstick

Joel, 

I've spent some time with this but don't really understand my results - some help would be appreciated.
I've built a tester that will read my LinkedIn home page, which is password protected.
When I use that method for reading other people's pages, the program is redirected to the LinkedIn login page.
When I paste the URLs for the other people's pages in any browser, the requested pages are shown.

Bob


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 10:21:45 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 00:21:45 +1000
Subject: parse an environment file
In-Reply-To: <CANy1k1g1dt6GQR80LWMkBt+YXzZXxtkUSV=qamWsS8mZXiyaAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANy1k1i7XA3pTGeZeWk8V4osPkRoWxkSQJehhix9nHzDzO3HTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANy1k1g1dt6GQR80LWMkBt+YXzZXxtkUSV=qamWsS8mZXiyaAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrcsPgtcy6Aa5KJ8mRjFuB5b-FBanVQJ1o0M_PnHVpL2w@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:12 AM, Jason Friedman <jason at powerpull.net> wrote:
> Let me restate my question.  I have a file that looks like this:
> export VAR1=foo
> export VAR2=bar
> # Comment
> export VAR3=${VAR1}${VAR2}
>
> I want this:
> my_dict = {'VAR1': 'foo', 'VAR2': 'bar', 'VAR3': 'foobar'}
>
> I can roll my own, but I'm thinking there is a module or existing code
> that does this.  I looked at the os and sys and configparse modules
> but did not see it.

Is there a reason to use that format, rather than using Python
notation? I've at times made config files that simply get imported.
Instead of a dictionary, you'd have a module object:


# config.py
VAR1='foo'
VAR2='bar'
VAR3=VAR1+VAR2

# main file
import config as my_dict

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 10:41:58 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 00:41:58 +1000
Subject: parse an environment file
In-Reply-To: <CANy1k1hzHqODvV7Eu64maOfCx8Os48wro56HG=uheyjqUos-uQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANy1k1i7XA3pTGeZeWk8V4osPkRoWxkSQJehhix9nHzDzO3HTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANy1k1g1dt6GQR80LWMkBt+YXzZXxtkUSV=qamWsS8mZXiyaAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrcsPgtcy6Aa5KJ8mRjFuB5b-FBanVQJ1o0M_PnHVpL2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANy1k1hzHqODvV7Eu64maOfCx8Os48wro56HG=uheyjqUos-uQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq2p5FLq8_w35qguoBhckBTdohb419j_jCWuvTP9vjKog@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:37 AM, Jason Friedman <jason at powerpull.net> wrote:
>> Is there a reason to use that format, rather than using Python
>> notation? I've at times made config files that simply get imported.
>> Instead of a dictionary, you'd have a module object:
>>
>>
>> # config.py
>> VAR1='foo'
>> VAR2='bar'
>> VAR3=VAR1+VAR2
>>
> There is a reason:  /path/to/export_file exists for Bash scripts, too,
> and I do not think I could get Bash to read config.py in the format
> stated above.  I want to maintain only one file.

(Responding on-list and hoping it was merely oversight that had that
email come to me personally)

Ah, fair enough. Well, since you're using the full range of bash
functionality, the only viable way to parse it is with bash itself.
I'd recommend going with the version you have above:

> * * * * * . /path/to/export_file && /path/to/script.py

Under what circumstances is this not an option? That'd be the next
thing to consider.

Alternatively, you may want to consider making your own config file
format. If you consciously restrict yourself to a severe subset of
bash functionality, you could easily parse it in Python - for
instance, always look for "export %s=%s" with simple strings for the
variable name and value.

ChrisA


From andriy.kornatskyy at live.com  Mon Oct  1 11:24:57 2012
From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com (Andriy Kornatskyy)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 18:24:57 +0300
Subject: Fastest template engine
In-Reply-To: <DUB117-W61FFFFB17826AE69188FF919F0@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB117-W61FFFFB17826AE69188FF919F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <DUB117-W138F819E85AA471D8E294EA91870@phx.gbl>


1. Added benchmarks for python 3.3
2. Captured total numbers of calls made by corresponding template engine and number of unique functions used.

http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/07/python-fastest-template.html

Comments or suggestions are welcome.

Andriy


----------------------------------------
> From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Fastest template engine
> Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 12:24:36 +0300
>
>
> I have run recently a benchmark of a trivial 'big table' example for various python template engines (jinja2, mako, tenjin, tornado and wheezy.template) run on cpython2.7 and pypy1.9...... you might find it interesting:
>
> http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/07/python-fastest-template.html
>
> Comments or suggestions are welcome.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Andriy Kornatskyy
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
 		 	   		  

From redstone-cold at 163.com  Mon Oct  1 11:28:32 2012
From: redstone-cold at 163.com (iMath)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 08:28:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?where_to_view_range=28=5Bstart=5D=2C_stop=5B=2C_step=5D=29=27s_C_imple?=
	=?UTF-8?Q?mentation_source_code_=EF=BC=9F?=
Message-ID: <bcad3f1e-1633-4786-8137-19032f32b6bd@googlegroups.com>

where to view range([start], stop[, step])'s C implementation source code ?


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Mon Oct  1 11:29:22 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 08:29:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: parse an environment file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1705.1349102521.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CANy1k1i7XA3pTGeZeWk8V4osPkRoWxkSQJehhix9nHzDzO3HTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANy1k1g1dt6GQR80LWMkBt+YXzZXxtkUSV=qamWsS8mZXiyaAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrcsPgtcy6Aa5KJ8mRjFuB5b-FBanVQJ1o0M_PnHVpL2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANy1k1hzHqODvV7Eu64maOfCx8Os48wro56HG=uheyjqUos-uQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1705.1349102521.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e2d19d2d-5cb0-41dd-a491-e10b457d442c@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 1, 2012 10:42:02 PM UTC+8, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:37 AM, Jason Friedman <jason at powerpull.net> wrote:
> 
> >> Is there a reason to use that format, rather than using Python
> 
> >> notation? I've at times made config files that simply get imported.
> 
> >> Instead of a dictionary, you'd have a module object:
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> # config.py
> 
> >> VAR1='foo'
> 
> >> VAR2='bar'
> 
> >> VAR3=VAR1+VAR2
> 
> >>
> 
> > There is a reason:  /path/to/export_file exists for Bash scripts, too,
> 
> > and I do not think I could get Bash to read config.py in the format
> 
> > stated above.  I want to maintain only one file.
> 
> 
> 
> (Responding on-list and hoping it was merely oversight that had that
> 
> email come to me personally)
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, fair enough. Well, since you're using the full range of bash
> 
> functionality, the only viable way to parse it is with bash itself.
> 
> I'd recommend going with the version you have above:
> 
> 
> 
> > * * * * * . /path/to/export_file && /path/to/script.py
> 
> 
> 
> Under what circumstances is this not an option? That'd be the next
> 
> thing to consider.
> 
> 
> 
> Alternatively, you may want to consider making your own config file
> 
> format. If you consciously restrict yourself to a severe subset of
> 
> bash functionality, you could easily parse it in Python - for
> 
> instance, always look for "export %s=%s" with simple strings for the
> 
> variable name and value.
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisA

I think one can ues some decorators to wrap OS  or platform 
dependent functions.

I am sure someone did that long time ago as the iron python
wrapped dot-net.


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Mon Oct  1 11:29:22 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 08:29:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: parse an environment file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1705.1349102521.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CANy1k1i7XA3pTGeZeWk8V4osPkRoWxkSQJehhix9nHzDzO3HTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANy1k1g1dt6GQR80LWMkBt+YXzZXxtkUSV=qamWsS8mZXiyaAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrcsPgtcy6Aa5KJ8mRjFuB5b-FBanVQJ1o0M_PnHVpL2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANy1k1hzHqODvV7Eu64maOfCx8Os48wro56HG=uheyjqUos-uQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1705.1349102521.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e2d19d2d-5cb0-41dd-a491-e10b457d442c@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 1, 2012 10:42:02 PM UTC+8, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:37 AM, Jason Friedman <jason at powerpull.net> wrote:
> 
> >> Is there a reason to use that format, rather than using Python
> 
> >> notation? I've at times made config files that simply get imported.
> 
> >> Instead of a dictionary, you'd have a module object:
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> # config.py
> 
> >> VAR1='foo'
> 
> >> VAR2='bar'
> 
> >> VAR3=VAR1+VAR2
> 
> >>
> 
> > There is a reason:  /path/to/export_file exists for Bash scripts, too,
> 
> > and I do not think I could get Bash to read config.py in the format
> 
> > stated above.  I want to maintain only one file.
> 
> 
> 
> (Responding on-list and hoping it was merely oversight that had that
> 
> email come to me personally)
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, fair enough. Well, since you're using the full range of bash
> 
> functionality, the only viable way to parse it is with bash itself.
> 
> I'd recommend going with the version you have above:
> 
> 
> 
> > * * * * * . /path/to/export_file && /path/to/script.py
> 
> 
> 
> Under what circumstances is this not an option? That'd be the next
> 
> thing to consider.
> 
> 
> 
> Alternatively, you may want to consider making your own config file
> 
> format. If you consciously restrict yourself to a severe subset of
> 
> bash functionality, you could easily parse it in Python - for
> 
> instance, always look for "export %s=%s" with simple strings for the
> 
> variable name and value.
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisA

I think one can ues some decorators to wrap OS  or platform 
dependent functions.

I am sure someone did that long time ago as the iron python
wrapped dot-net.


From hansmu at xs4all.nl  Mon Oct  1 11:35:04 2012
From: hansmu at xs4all.nl (Hans Mulder)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 17:35:04 +0200
Subject: parse an environment file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1703.1349100773.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CANy1k1i7XA3pTGeZeWk8V4osPkRoWxkSQJehhix9nHzDzO3HTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1703.1349100773.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5069b829$0$6949$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 1/10/12 16:12:50, Jason Friedman wrote:
>> I want my python 3.2.2 script, called via cron, to know what those
>> additional variables are.  How?
> 
> Thank you for the feedback.  A crontab line of
> 
> * * * * * . /path/to/export_file && /path/to/script.py
> 
> does indeed work, but for various reasons this approach will not
> always be available to me.
> 
> Let me restate my question.  I have a file that looks like this:
> export VAR1=foo
> export VAR2=bar
> # Comment
> export VAR3=${VAR1}${VAR2}
> 
> I want this:
> my_dict = {'VAR1': 'foo', 'VAR2': 'bar', 'VAR3': 'foobar'}
> 
> I can roll my own, but I'm thinking there is a module or existing code
> that does this.  I looked at the os and sys and configparse modules
> but did not see it.

One tactic is to write a wrapper script in shellese that sets the
variables and then runs your script.  Something like:

#/bin/bash
export VAR1=foo
export VAR2=bar
# Comment
export VAR3=${VAR1}${VAR2}

# Read some more settings from a file
. /path/to/file/with/more/exports

# Drum roll .....
/path/to/your/script.py


This allows you to copy-and-paste all sorts of weird and wonderful
shell syntax into your wrapper script.

AFAIK, there is no Python module that can read shell syntax.
You could translate all that shell syntax manually to Python,
but that may not be worth the effort.

Hope this helps,

-- HansM



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 11:41:52 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 09:41:52 -0600
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_where_to_view_range=28=5Bstart=5D=2C_stop=5B=2C_step=5D=29=27s_C_i?=
	=?UTF-8?Q?mplementation_source_code_=EF=BC=9F?=
In-Reply-To: <bcad3f1e-1633-4786-8137-19032f32b6bd@googlegroups.com>
References: <bcad3f1e-1633-4786-8137-19032f32b6bd@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidm16ygG_vkcotBUOAip=AetveFb4fBrjMorXDGikvvCvg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 9:28 AM, iMath <redstone-cold at 163.com> wrote:
> where to view range([start], stop[, step])'s C implementation source code ?

http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/3f739f42be51/Objects/rangeobject.c


From alister.ware at ntlworld.com  Mon Oct  1 12:02:18 2012
From: alister.ware at ntlworld.com (Alister)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 16:02:18 GMT
Subject: Coexistence of Python 2.x and 3.x on same OS
References: <k4a5m9$l2k$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <e8jas.240866$uJ4.171815@fx18.am4>

On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 15:14:17 -0400, Edward Diener wrote:

> Has there been any official software that allows both the Python 2.x and
> 3.x releases to coexist on the same OS so that the end-user can easily
> switch between them when invoking Python scripts after each has been
> installed to their own directories/folders ?
> 
> I know of some unoffical solutions, but they require lots of tweaks.
> Given the vagaries of the different OSs on which Python can run I am
> hoping for some offical solution which will work on any of the most
> popular OSs ( Windows, Linux, Mac ).
> 
> The situation is so confusing on Windows, where the file associations,
> registry entries, and other internal software which allows a given
> Python release to work properly when invoking Python is so complicated,
> that I have given up on trying to install more than one Python release
> and finding a relaible, foolproof way of switching between them. So
> although I would like to use the latest 3.x series on Windows I have
> decide to stick with the latest 2.x series instead because much software
> using Python does not support 3.x yet.

on my fedora system it was a simple matter of:-
#> yum install python3

to use python 3 i specify it in my shebang line

#!/usr/bun/env python3

Simple

Not sure about Windoze though (Although from memory the install asks 
where to install so should not be a major issue)



-- 
Immortality consists largely of boredom.
		-- Zefrem Cochrane, "Metamorphosis", stardate 3219.8


From bnrj.rudra at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 12:44:19 2012
From: bnrj.rudra at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?=E0=A6=B0=E0=A7=81=E0=A6=A6=E0=A7=8D=E0=A6=B0_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E0=A6=AC=E0=A7=8D=E0=A6=AF=E0=A6=BE=E0=A6=A3=E0=A6=BE?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E0=A6=B0=E0=A7=8D=E0=A6=9C=E0=A7=80?=)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 17:44:19 +0100
Subject: get google scholar using python
Message-ID: <1349109859.27817.7.camel@roddur>

If I am trying to access a google scholar search result using python, I
get the following error(403):
$ python
Python 2.7.3 (default, Jul 24 2012, 10:05:38) 
[GCC 4.7.0 20120507 (Red Hat 4.7.0-5)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from HTMLParser import HTMLParser
>>> import urllib2
response = urllib2.urlopen('http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=albert
+einstein%2B1905&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_sdtp=')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.7/urllib2.py", line 126, in urlopen
    return _opener.open(url, data, timeout)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.7/urllib2.py", line 406, in open
    response = meth(req, response)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.7/urllib2.py", line 519, in http_response
    'http', request, response, code, msg, hdrs)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.7/urllib2.py", line 444, in error
    return self._call_chain(*args)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.7/urllib2.py", line 378, in _call_chain
    result = func(*args)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.7/urllib2.py", line 527, in
http_error_default
    raise HTTPError(req.get_full_url(), code, msg, hdrs, fp)
urllib2.HTTPError: HTTP Error 403: Forbidden
>>> 

Will you kindly explain me the way to get rid of this?



From nick.cash at npcinternational.com  Mon Oct  1 12:51:24 2012
From: nick.cash at npcinternational.com (Nick Cash)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 16:51:24 +0000
Subject: get google scholar using python
In-Reply-To: <1349109859.27817.7.camel@roddur>
References: <1349109859.27817.7.camel@roddur>
Message-ID: <846C3A8E860C4344B567D813B63AA51D48C792E7@BL2PRD0610MB349.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

> urllib2.urlopen('http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=albert
>...
> urllib2.HTTPError: HTTP Error 403: Forbidden
> >>>
> 
> Will you kindly explain me the way to get rid of this?

Looks like Google blocks non-browser user agents from retrieving this query. You *could* work around it by setting the User-Agent header to something fake that looks browser-ish, but you're almost certainly breaking Google's TOS if you do so.

Should you really really want to, urllib2 makes it easy:
urllib2.urlopen(urllib2.Request("http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=albert+einstein%2B1905&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_sdtp=", headers={"User-Agent":"Mozilla/5.0 Cheater/1.0"}))

-Nick Cash

From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Oct  1 13:19:39 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 17:19:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: get google scholar using python
References: <1349109859.27817.7.camel@roddur>
	<mailman.1710.1349110326.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k4cjbb$h4d$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-01, Nick Cash <nick.cash at npcinternational.com> wrote:
>> urllib2.urlopen('http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=albert
>>...
>> urllib2.HTTPError: HTTP Error 403: Forbidden
>> 
>> Will you kindly explain me the way to get rid of this?
>
> Looks like Google blocks non-browser user agents from retrieving this
> query. You *could* work around it by setting the User-Agent header to
> something fake that looks browser-ish, but you're almost certainly
> breaking Google's TOS if you do so.

I don't know about that particular Google service, but Google often
provides an API that's intended for use by non-browser programs. 
Those interfaces are usually both easier to use for the programmer and
impose less load on the servers.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I am deeply CONCERNED
                                  at               and I want something GOOD
                              gmail.com            for BREAKFAST!


From pruebauno at latinmail.com  Mon Oct  1 13:22:14 2012
From: pruebauno at latinmail.com (nn)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 10:22:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: print or write on a text file ?
References: <franck-20D159.20420228092012@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <a47f021d-8c28-41f7-ad32-431696557780@a7g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>

On Sep 28, 2:42?pm, Franck Ditter <fra... at ditter.org> wrote:
> Hi !
> Here is Python 3.3
> Is it better in any way to use print(x,x,x,file='out')
> or out.write(x) ? Any reason to prefer any of them ?
> There should be a printlines, like readlines ?
> Thanks,
>
> ? ? franck

There is

out.writelines(lst)


From bnrj.rudra at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 13:28:42 2012
From: bnrj.rudra at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?=E0=A6=B0=E0=A7=81=E0=A6=A6=E0=A7=8D=E0=A6=B0_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E0=A6=AC=E0=A7=8D=E0=A6=AF=E0=A6=BE=E0=A6=A3=E0=A6=BE?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E0=A6=B0=E0=A7=8D=E0=A6=9C=E0=A7=80?=)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 18:28:42 +0100
Subject: get google scholar using python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1710.1349110326.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <1349109859.27817.7.camel@roddur>
	<mailman.1710.1349110326.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1349112522.1787.5.camel@roddur>

I know one more python app that do the same thing
http://www.icir.org/christian/downloads/scholar.py

and few other app(Mendeley desktop) for which I found an explanation:
(from
http://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/2567/api-eula-and-scraping-for-google-scholar )
that:
"I know how Mendley uses it: they require you to click a button for each
individual search of Google Scholar. If they automatically did the
Google Scholar meta-data search for each paper when you import a
folder-full then they would violate the old Scholar EULA. That is why
they make you click for each query: if each query is accompanied by a
click and not part of some script or loop then it is in compliance with
the old EULA."

So, If I manage to use the User-Agent as shown by you, will I still
violating the google EULA?

This is my first try of scrapping HTML. So please help

On Mon, 2012-10-01 at 16:51 +0000, Nick Cash wrote:
> > urllib2.urlopen('http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=albert
> >...
> > urllib2.HTTPError: HTTP Error 403: Forbidden
> > >>>
> > 
> > Will you kindly explain me the way to get rid of this?
> 
> Looks like Google blocks non-browser user agents from retrieving this query. You *could* work around it by setting the User-Agent header to something fake that looks browser-ish, but you're almost certainly breaking Google's TOS if you do so.
> 
> Should you really really want to, urllib2 makes it easy:
> urllib2.urlopen(urllib2.Request("http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=albert+einstein%2B1905&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_sdtp=", headers={"User-Agent":"Mozilla/5.0 Cheater/1.0"}))
> 
> -Nick Cash




From malaclypse2 at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 14:09:34 2012
From: malaclypse2 at gmail.com (Jerry Hill)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 14:09:34 -0400
Subject: get google scholar using python
In-Reply-To: <1349112522.1787.5.camel@roddur>
References: <1349109859.27817.7.camel@roddur>
	<mailman.1710.1349110326.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1349112522.1787.5.camel@roddur>
Message-ID: <CADwdpyayErFuWVx2U0YqPu-hUZMYkJFBMSnBpqy87e3TYtR_cA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 1:28 PM, ????? ?????????? <bnrj.rudra at gmail.com> wrote:
> So, If I manage to use the User-Agent as shown by you, will I still
> violating the google EULA?

Very likely, yes.  The overall Google Terms of Services
(http://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/terms/) say "Don?t misuse our
Services. For example, don?t interfere with our Services or try to
access them using a method other than the interface and the
instructions that we provide."

The only method that Google appears to allow for accessing Scholar is
via the web interface, and they explicitly block web scraping through
that interface, as you discovered.  It's true that you can get around
their block, but I believe that doing so violates the terms of
service.

Google does not appear to offer an API to access Scholar
programatically, nor do I see a more specific EULA or TOS for the
Scholar service beyond that general TOS document.

That said, I am not a lawyer.  If you want legal advice, you'll need
to pay a lawyer for that advice.

-- 
Jerry


From drobinow at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 15:36:14 2012
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 15:36:14 -0400
Subject: Coexistence of Python 2.x and 3.x on same OS
In-Reply-To: <50691419.7000408@davea.name>
References: <k4a5m9$l2k$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.1681.1349033884.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k4b1av$rgb$1@dont-email.me> <50691419.7000408@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CAF3Xjbx=C--J3P_wQ6xshVGgQ=1q475K1FV9aGSXTEtXzwpk7g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:55 PM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:
>> The problem with that is that one has to already being using 3.3 to
>> use this facility. I was hoping for a solution which was backwards
>> compatible with Python 2.x.
>>...
>> That does not solve the problem for Python 2.x distributions.
> If you read the Pep, it says the launcher will work for both 2.x and 3.x
>     http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0397/
> <http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0397/>
>
> I've read that elsewhere, but I can't see just where you would get the
> necessary modules to run it with 2.x   Possibly you'd have to build it
> from sources, as there are Windows binaries that get installed to the
> C:\Windows directory.
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. The solution is to install
Python 3.3, which provides the launcher. It works with Python 2.x. Is
there some reason not to install 3.3?


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Oct  1 15:46:06 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 20:46:06 +0100
Subject: Coexistence of Python 2.x and 3.x on same OS
In-Reply-To: <CAF3Xjbx=C--J3P_wQ6xshVGgQ=1q475K1FV9aGSXTEtXzwpk7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <k4a5m9$l2k$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.1681.1349033884.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k4b1av$rgb$1@dont-email.me> <50691419.7000408@davea.name>
	<CAF3Xjbx=C--J3P_wQ6xshVGgQ=1q475K1FV9aGSXTEtXzwpk7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k4crp5$cbj$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 01/10/2012 20:36, David Robinow wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:55 PM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:
>>> The problem with that is that one has to already being using 3.3 to
>>> use this facility. I was hoping for a solution which was backwards
>>> compatible with Python 2.x.
>>> ...
>>> That does not solve the problem for Python 2.x distributions.
>> If you read the Pep, it says the launcher will work for both 2.x and 3.x
>>      http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0397/
>> <http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0397/>
>>
>> I've read that elsewhere, but I can't see just where you would get the
>> necessary modules to run it with 2.x   Possibly you'd have to build it
>> from sources, as there are Windows binaries that get installed to the
>> C:\Windows directory.
> I'm not sure what you're getting at here. The solution is to install
> Python 3.3, which provides the launcher. It works with Python 2.x. Is
> there some reason not to install 3.3?
>

Fo those who missed it earlier you can download the launcher here 
https://bitbucket.org/vinay.sajip/pylauncher/downloads , you don't need 
Python 3.3.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 15:53:59 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 20:53:59 +0100
Subject: Slicing iterables in sub-generators without loosing elements
In-Reply-To: <k4bjj1$tls$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.1636.1348935354.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<040cf4f0-e6de-45b1-add4-462c02fc2c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<k4bjj1$tls$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qXofFKiujEQu+b-JJE=qHVH-Rcr3=dTcsKArDLkO01YvQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 1 October 2012 09:19, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On 01/10/2012 01:58, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
>
>>
>> Your question seems vague to me. If you know you are storing
>> only immutable tuples in a list, then the way to iterate is simple.
>>
>>
> Does Python have a magic method that let's me use mutable tuples?  I'd
> also like immutable lists.  Is it worth raising a feature request on the
> bug tracker?


Whilst your question is valid, 88888 Dihedral is a bot.

[Lazy] Answers to your questions: no and no.

Python's tuples are immutable, except from C. They are made this way so
program with that in mind, I guess.

That said, an immutable list *is* a tuple and vice-versa, effectively.
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From subhabangalore at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 04:43:41 2012
From: subhabangalore at gmail.com (subhabangalore at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 01:43:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Download issue.
Message-ID: <3ad9babb-3c25-4f6f-a410-96827910bf7e@googlegroups.com>

Dear Group,

I am using Python on Windows 7 SP-1 (64 bit).

I have two versions of Python installed 2.7 and 3.2.

I want to install networkx in both.

How may I do that?

If any one may kindly let me know.

Regards,
Subhabrata.


From nathaire at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 05:26:56 2012
From: nathaire at gmail.com (WhisperingWally)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 09:26:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PIL questions: still supported? Problems on 2.7 for win?
	alternatives?
References: <k3qecs$i6h$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <loom.20121002T111649-952@post.gmane.org>

Gelonida N <gelonida <at> gmail.com> writes:

> I wondered whether some of you have a little more insight into what's 
> going on with PIL.

AFAIK the latest PIL stuff lives here:

hg.effbot.org




From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Tue Oct  2 05:45:54 2012
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 11:45:54 +0200
Subject: terminate called after throwing an instance of 'CABRTException'
Message-ID: <CADjSo4Tz9FArpCRdMHHU7SPtyZG-2PjqDfk3TB4Ledvka5g53A@mail.gmail.com>

I've noticed a strange thing with python lately:



Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Aug 21 2009, 12:23:57)
[GCC 4.4.1 20090818 (Red Hat 4.4.1-6)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> def f(): print x
...
>>> f()
terminate called after throwing an instance of 'CABRTException'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in f
NameError: global name 'x' is not defined
>>>



Clearly there is a NameError because x is not defined, but what the
hell is the "terminate ..... 'CABRTException'" business?

I guess it has to do with abrt but abrt is not running on my system at
all. Also, if I run python2.7 with the above code I don't get the
CABRTException stuff. What is really strange is that I have all sorts
of recent files in /var/cache/abrt/pyhook-* indicating that somehow
abrt is doing things even though it is not running, for instance
chkconfig --list | grep abrt shows it off in all run levels.

What's going on?

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From xenplex at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 06:38:44 2012
From: xenplex at gmail.com (Ritchie Flick)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 12:38:44 +0200
Subject: Download issue.
In-Reply-To: <3ad9babb-3c25-4f6f-a410-96827910bf7e@googlegroups.com>
References: <3ad9babb-3c25-4f6f-a410-96827910bf7e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CADDtcm-SxJu9rENJCG-GE0m8bWHzQUAMKWXjCRW=yWiRxh7KnQ@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.pip-installer.org/en/latest/index.html

-- 
Ritchie Flick
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From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct  2 06:54:40 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 12:54:40 +0200
Subject: terminate called after throwing an instance of 'CABRTException'
References: <CADjSo4Tz9FArpCRdMHHU7SPtyZG-2PjqDfk3TB4Ledvka5g53A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k4eh56$ceh$1@ger.gmane.org>

Daniel Fetchinson wrote:

> I've noticed a strange thing with python lately:
> 
> 
> 
> Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Aug 21 2009, 12:23:57)
> [GCC 4.4.1 20090818 (Red Hat 4.4.1-6)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> def f(): print x
> ...
>>>> f()
> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'CABRTException'
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in f
> NameError: global name 'x' is not defined
>>>>
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly there is a NameError because x is not defined, but what the
> hell is the "terminate ..... 'CABRTException'" business?
> 
> I guess it has to do with abrt but abrt is not running on my system at
> all. Also, if I run python2.7 with the above code I don't get the
> CABRTException stuff. What is really strange is that I have all sorts
> of recent files in /var/cache/abrt/pyhook-* indicating that somehow
> abrt is doing things even though it is not running, for instance
> chkconfig --list | grep abrt shows it off in all run levels.
> 
> What's going on?

No idea, but I'd have a look at sys.modules, and if

>>> import sys
>>> [name for name in sys.modules if "abrt" in name.lower()]
[]

gives a non-empty result I'd investigate where the culprit is imported --
/usr/lib/python2.6/sitecustomize.py would be the obvious candidate.



From d at davea.name  Tue Oct  2 07:05:06 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 07:05:06 -0400
Subject: Download issue.
In-Reply-To: <3ad9babb-3c25-4f6f-a410-96827910bf7e@googlegroups.com>
References: <3ad9babb-3c25-4f6f-a410-96827910bf7e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <506ACA62.3020704@davea.name>

On 10/02/2012 04:43 AM, subhabangalore at gmail.com wrote:
> Dear Group,
>
> I am using Python on Windows 7 SP-1 (64 bit).
>
> I have two versions of Python installed 2.7 and 3.2.
>
> I want to install networkx in both.
>
> How may I do that?
>
> If any one may kindly let me know.
>

Doing a search for networkx, there are several.  But the most likely
candidate for what you might mean is:

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/networkx/
   from that I see that both 2.7 and 3.2 are supported, and follow a
link to:

http://networkx.lanl.gov/
  then I look for the documentation, which is here:

http://networkx.lanl.gov/contents.html

After that, I don't know what to tell you, as I don't use the package. 
They do have a discussion group, however.  I don't know its real name,
as all they list on the pages I saw was a google-groups link.

If you don't understand python egg files, and how to install them, you
might start with:
http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/EasyInstall
or
http://www.pip-installer.org/en/latest/index.html

-- 

DaveA



From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Tue Oct  2 08:06:01 2012
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 14:06:01 +0200
Subject: terminate called after throwing an instance of 'CABRTException'
In-Reply-To: <k4eh56$ceh$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CADjSo4Tz9FArpCRdMHHU7SPtyZG-2PjqDfk3TB4Ledvka5g53A@mail.gmail.com>
	<k4eh56$ceh$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CADjSo4S3SW=tXeOdyTHAv6Ta=5OsQcG3qsZeaEOO29gchC9pag@mail.gmail.com>

>> I've noticed a strange thing with python lately:
>>
>>
>>
>> Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Aug 21 2009, 12:23:57)
>> [GCC 4.4.1 20090818 (Red Hat 4.4.1-6)] on linux2
>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>>> def f(): print x
>> ...
>>>>> f()
>> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'CABRTException'
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in f
>> NameError: global name 'x' is not defined
>>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Clearly there is a NameError because x is not defined, but what the
>> hell is the "terminate ..... 'CABRTException'" business?
>>
>> I guess it has to do with abrt but abrt is not running on my system at
>> all. Also, if I run python2.7 with the above code I don't get the
>> CABRTException stuff. What is really strange is that I have all sorts
>> of recent files in /var/cache/abrt/pyhook-* indicating that somehow
>> abrt is doing things even though it is not running, for instance
>> chkconfig --list | grep abrt shows it off in all run levels.
>>
>> What's going on?
>
> No idea, but I'd have a look at sys.modules, and if
>
>>>> import sys
>>>> [name for name in sys.modules if "abrt" in name.lower()]
> []
>
> gives a non-empty result I'd investigate where the culprit is imported --
> /usr/lib/python2.6/sitecustomize.py would be the obvious candidate.

Indeed! Thanks a lot,
/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/sitecustomize.py was created by the
package abrt-addon-python (at least this is the fedora name) and so it
was activated by python itself completely independently from abrt
(which was not running).

Now I removed all packages called abrt-* and the problem is gone.

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Tue Oct  2 08:27:11 2012
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 14:27:11 +0200
Subject: unit testing class hierarchies
Message-ID: <v53rj9-5kd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Greetings!

I'm trying to unittest a class hierachy using Python 2.7. I have a 
common baseclass Base and derived classes D1 and D2 that I want to test. 
The baseclass in not instantiatable on its own. Now, the first approach 
is to have test cases TestD1 and TestD2, both derived from class TestCase:

class TestD1(unittest.TestCase):
     def test_base(self):
         ...
     def test_r(self):
         ...
     def test_s(self):
         ...

class TestD2(unittest.TestCase):
     def test_base(self):
         # same as above
         ...
     def test_x(self):
         ...
     def test_y(self):
         ...

As you see, the code for test_base() is redundant, so the idea is to 
move it to a baseclass:

class TestBase(unittest.TestCase):
     def test_base(self):
         ...

class TestD1(TestBase):
     def test_r(self):
         ...
     def test_s(self):
         ...

class TestD2(TestBase):
     def test_x(self):
         ...
     def test_y(self):
         ...

The problem here is that TestBase is not a complete test case (just as 
class Base is not complete), but the unittest framework will still try 
to run it on its own. One way around this is to not derive class 
TestBase from unittest.TestCase but instead use multiple inheritance in 
the derived classes [1]. Maybe it's just my personal gut feeling, but I 
don't like that solution, because it is not obvious that this class 
actually needs to be combined with a TestCase class in order to 
function. I would rather tell the unittest framework directly that it's 
not supposed to consider this intermediate class as a test case, but 
couldn't find a way to express that clearly.

How would you do this?

Uli


[1] in C++ I would call that a "mixin"



From aclark at aclark.net  Tue Oct  2 09:12:54 2012
From: aclark at aclark.net (Alex Clark)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 09:12:54 -0400
Subject: PIL questions: still supported? Problems on 2.7 for win?
	alternatives?
References: <k3qecs$i6h$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<loom.20121002T111649-952@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <k4ep8k$kaa$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2012-10-02 09:26:56 +0000, WhisperingWally said:

> Gelonida N <gelonida <at> gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> I wondered whether some of you have a little more insight into what's
>> going on with PIL.
> 
> AFAIK the latest PIL stuff lives here:
> 
> hg.effbot.org


Certainly true, though somewhat meaningless in the current context of 
"what's going on with PIL?"[1]. The latest Pillow (PIL fork) lives here:

- https://github.com/python-imaging/Pillow

And if folks commit meaningful changes there, we'll get releases out as 
needed. In other words, you are welcome and encouraged to explore all 
your options. And if it helps, you can affect the future of PIL in a 
meaningful way via Pillow.


Alex


[1] The last commit to: http://hg.effbot.org/pil-2009-raclette was in 
2011. Based on that information, the answer would appear to be 
"nothing", which is why Pillow exists.


-- 
Alex Clark ? http://aclark.net




From andriy.kornatskyy at live.com  Tue Oct  2 09:17:40 2012
From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com (Andriy Kornatskyy)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 16:17:40 +0300
Subject: Fastest web framework
In-Reply-To: <DUB117-W30563FACD45427AB23024091810@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB117-W80EE2285B5E415AA14B5B9919F0@phx.gbl>, ,
	<50604907.6060405@ziade.org>,
	<DUB117-W20C405466BE1C21E8F0FEE919D0@phx.gbl>, ,
	<5062C603.90905@ziade.org>,
	<DUB117-W1187300EA6CC66C00907F92919C0@phx.gbl>, ,
	<5062CDC6.40703@ziade.org>,
	<DUB117-W30563FACD45427AB23024091810@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <DUB117-W110D8BBFFCF5FEB0813E8991860@phx.gbl>


In order to provide more reliable benchmark, I get rid of application server and network boundary. As a result I simulated a valid WSGI request and isolated calls just to the web framework alone. Also I found interesting to take a look at total number of calls and unique functions used by corresponding web framework.

The post has been updated:

http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/09/python-fastest-web-framework.html

Isolated benchmark source code is here:

https://bitbucket.org/akorn/helloworld/src/tip/benchmark.py

I should mention several web frameworks experience huge memory leaks in this?benchmark.

BONUS: added benchmark for python 3.3 (for the web frameworks that support it) and plain simple WSGI application (for contrast).

Comments or suggestions are welcome.

Thanks.

Andriy Kornatskyy


----------------------------------------
> From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com
> To: tarek at ziade.org
> Subject: RE: Fastest web framework
> Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 12:18:32 +0300
> CC: python-list at python.org
>
>
> Tarek,
>
> My response inline to your:
>
> > You are not getting my point. What happens to weezhy or XXX framework
> > when you are running it in a given stack, under heavy load ?
>
> let me correct you, it is wheezy.web (not `weezhy`).
>
> Tell me your definition of web framework heavy load. If you have one, we
> can try benchmark it.
>
> > There are many interactions that may impact the behavior of the stack -
> > most of them are in the web server itself, but they can be things in the
> > framework too, depending on the architectural choice.
>
> The reason I choose uWSGI is due to minimal possible impact that application
> server may cause. Since this component `equally influence` productivity
> of each framework it can be to some degree ignored.
>
> > And you will not know it with an hello world app. To put it more
> > bluntly, your benchmark is going to join the big pile of hello worlds
> > benchmarks that are completely meaningless.
>
> Can not agree. This is just simple thing. Simple things should run
> fast, no doubt. If you can provide a better idea as to which framework
> calls to put into benchmark, I will be happy extend the benchmark case.
>
> > If you want to prove that weezhy is faster than another py framework,
> > because, I dunno, the number of function calls are smaller ? then you
> > need to isolate this and
> > do a different kind of bench.
> >
> > Have a look at http://plope.com/pyroptimization , it's a good example
>
> The numbers provided in that article are incorrect. They didn't match results
> from the file they provide (result.txt in each framework dir) at the time
> of writing.
>
> I have used that idea to re-run things (isolated benchmark; report with
> total time, total number of calls and number of distinct functions used).
> See here:
>
> https://bitbucket.org/akorn/helloworld/src/tip/benchmark.py
>
> I will update original post a bit later (to let you comment on this).
>
> > Same thing for the raw speed of your templating engine - isolation is
> > required.
>
> Improved bigtable benchmark report by adding total number of calls and
> number distinct functions used:
> https://bitbucket.org/akorn/wheezy.template/src/tip/demos/bigtable/bigtable.py
>
> Original post not updated yet.
>
> > One good read:
> > http://blog.ianbicking.org/2010/03/16/web-server-benchmarking-we-need/
>
> Sounds not so bad. It points to some specific workloads. Any attempt to prioritize
> and/or practically implement them?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Andriy
 		 	   		  

From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 10:05:49 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 07:05:49 -0700
Subject: unit testing class hierarchies
In-Reply-To: <v53rj9-5kd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <v53rj9-5kd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <506AF4BD.6080402@gmail.com>

> [1] in C++ I would call that a "mixin"

Mixins are perfectly valid Python constructs as well and are perfectly 
valid (imho) for this use case.

On a side note, I usually append a "Mixin" suffix to my mixin classes in 
order to make it obvious to the reader.



-- 
Demian Brecht
@demianbrecht
http://demianbrecht.github.com


From thbach at students.uni-mainz.de  Tue Oct  2 10:06:38 2012
From: thbach at students.uni-mainz.de (Thomas Bach)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 16:06:38 +0200
Subject: unit testing class hierarchies
In-Reply-To: <v53rj9-5kd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <v53rj9-5kd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <20121002140638.GA5282@taris.box>

On Tue, Oct 02, 2012 at 02:27:11PM +0200, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> As you see, the code for test_base() is redundant, so the idea is to
> move it to a baseclass:
> 
> class TestBase(unittest.TestCase):
>     def test_base(self):
>         ...
> 
> class TestD1(TestBase):
>     def test_r(self):
>         ...
>     def test_s(self):
>         ...
> 
> class TestD2(TestBase):
>     def test_x(self):
>         ...
>     def test_y(self):
>         ...

Could you provide more background? How do you avoid that test_base()
runs in TestD1 or TestD2?

To me it sounds like test_base() is actually no test. Hence, I would
rather give it a catchy name like _build_base_cls().  If a method name
does not start with 'test' it is not considered a test to run
automatically.

Does this help?

Regards,
	Thomas Bach.


From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 10:23:05 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 07:23:05 -0700
Subject: Are ABCs an anti-pattern?
Message-ID: <506AF8C9.8060406@gmail.com>

I don't use them anymore, but I'm curious about others opinions on this 
list...

The more time I spend in Python, discovering what "Pythonic" code is and 
such, it seems that I throw away much in terms of academic learnings as 
far as "OOP correctness" goes. In doing so, I find that, in general, 
overall LOC (yes, I'm aware that this is a poor metric to judge anything 
on), readability and overall quality of code seems to go up. Yes, you 
give the user much more rope to hang themselves with making the general 
assumption that the user knows what they're doing, but we're all 
consenting adults here after all, right? ;)

As an example, I initially had an OAuth 2.0 client library that was 
roughly 450 LOC (using ABCs, adapter patterns for the various flows, 
etc). Dropping this for a more "Pythonic" (at least, what my 
interpretation of Pythonic code is) brought the entire library down to 
55 LOC. Having said that, the decline in LOC and overall grok-ability 
wasn't entirely due to moving away from ABCs and dropping the use of 
adapters, but it did have quite a bit to do with it).

As such, I see ABCs as somewhat of an anti-pattern in the Python world. 
The concept is obviously essential in non-duck-typed language using 
strict OOP, but does it *really* belong in Python?

-- 
Demian Brecht
@demianbrecht
http://demianbrecht.github.com


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct  2 10:32:48 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 16:32:48 +0200
Subject: unit testing class hierarchies
References: <v53rj9-5kd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <k4etu4$v1m$1@ger.gmane.org>

Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:

> As you see, the code for test_base() is redundant, so the idea is to
> move it to a baseclass:
> 
> class TestBase(unittest.TestCase):
>      def test_base(self):
>          ...
> 
> class TestD1(TestBase):
>      def test_r(self):
>          ...
>      def test_s(self):
>          ...
> 
> class TestD2(TestBase):
>      def test_x(self):
>          ...
>      def test_y(self):
>          ...
> 
> The problem here is that TestBase is not a complete test case (just as
> class Base is not complete), but the unittest framework will still try
> to run it on its own. One way around this is to not derive class
> TestBase from unittest.

Another is to remove it from the global namespace with 

del TestBase





From fayaz at dexetra.com  Tue Oct  2 11:05:33 2012
From: fayaz at dexetra.com (Fayaz Yusuf Khan)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 20:35:33 +0530
Subject: unit testing class hierarchies
References: <v53rj9-5kd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<k4etu4$v1m$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <k4evs1$k8o$1@ger.gmane.org>

Peter Otten wrote:

> Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
>> The problem here is that TestBase is not a complete test case (just 
as
>> class Base is not complete), but the unittest framework will still 
try
>> to run it on its own.
How exactly are you invoking the test runner? unittest? nose? You can 
tell the test discoverer which classes you want it to run and which 
ones you don't. For the unittest library, I use my own custom 
load_tests methods:
def load_tests(loader, tests, pattern):
    testcases = [TestD1, TestD2]
    return TestSuite([loader.loadTestsFromTestCase(testcase)
                      for testcase in testcases])
http://docs.python.org/library/unittest.html#load-tests-protocol

>> One way around this is to not derive class
>> TestBase from unittest.
> 
> Another is to remove it from the global namespace with
> 
> del TestBase
Removing the class from namespace may or may not help. Consider a 
scenario where someone decided to be creative with the cls.__bases__ 
attribute.

-- 
Fayaz Yusuf Khan
Cloud architect, Dexetra SS, India
fayaz.yusuf.khan_AT_gmail_DOT_com, fayaz_AT_dexetra_DOT_com
+91-9746-830-823



From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Tue Oct  2 11:24:35 2012
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 17:24:35 +0200
Subject: unit testing class hierarchies
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1725.1349186875.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <v53rj9-5kd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<mailman.1725.1349186875.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jidrj9-rae.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 02.10.2012 16:06, schrieb Thomas Bach:
> On Tue, Oct 02, 2012 at 02:27:11PM +0200, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
>> As you see, the code for test_base() is redundant, so the idea is to
>> move it to a baseclass:
>>
>> class TestBase(unittest.TestCase):
>>      def test_base(self):
>>          ...
>>
>> class TestD1(TestBase):
>>      def test_r(self):
>>          ...
>>      def test_s(self):
>>          ...
>>
>> class TestD2(TestBase):
>>      def test_x(self):
>>          ...
>>      def test_y(self):
>>          ...
>
> Could you provide more background? How do you avoid that test_base()
> runs in TestD1 or TestD2?

Sorry, there's a misunderstanding: I want test_base() to be run as part 
of both TestD1 and TestD2, because it tests basic functions provided by 
both class D1 and D2.

Uli



From thudfoo at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 12:03:47 2012
From: thudfoo at gmail.com (xDog Walker)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 09:03:47 -0700
Subject: parse an environment file
In-Reply-To: <5069b829$0$6949$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <CANy1k1i7XA3pTGeZeWk8V4osPkRoWxkSQJehhix9nHzDzO3HTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1703.1349100773.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5069b829$0$6949$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <201210020903.47187.thudfoo@gmail.com>

On Monday 2012 October 01 08:35, Hans Mulder wrote:
> AFAIK, there is no Python module that can read shell syntax.

The stdlib's shlex might be that module.

-- 
Yonder nor sorghum stenches shut ladle gulls stopper torque wet 
strainers.



From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 12:12:04 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 09:12:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Slicing iterables in sub-generators without loosing elements
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1700.1349079470.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1636.1348935354.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<040cf4f0-e6de-45b1-add4-462c02fc2c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1700.1349079470.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e895bf8b-514b-4dc2-a43e-50de4f9c3a9e@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, 1 October 2012 13:47:50 UTC+5:30, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> On 01/10/2012 01:58, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> > Your question seems vague to me. If you know you are storing
> 
> > only immutable tuples in a list, then the way to iterate is simple.
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> Does Python have a magic method that let's me use mutable tuples?  I'd 
> 
> also like immutable lists.  Is it worth raising a feature request on the 
> 
> bug tracker?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Lawrence.

Mark, you are talking to a bot.


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 12:12:04 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 09:12:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Slicing iterables in sub-generators without loosing elements
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1700.1349079470.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1636.1348935354.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<040cf4f0-e6de-45b1-add4-462c02fc2c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1700.1349079470.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e895bf8b-514b-4dc2-a43e-50de4f9c3a9e@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, 1 October 2012 13:47:50 UTC+5:30, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> On 01/10/2012 01:58, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> > Your question seems vague to me. If you know you are storing
> 
> > only immutable tuples in a list, then the way to iterate is simple.
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> Does Python have a magic method that let's me use mutable tuples?  I'd 
> 
> also like immutable lists.  Is it worth raising a feature request on the 
> 
> bug tracker?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Lawrence.

Mark, you are talking to a bot.


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 12:16:09 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 09:16:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: parse an environment file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1729.1349193842.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CANy1k1i7XA3pTGeZeWk8V4osPkRoWxkSQJehhix9nHzDzO3HTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1703.1349100773.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5069b829$0$6949$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.1729.1349193842.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e6ae0308-ea4e-4efd-b409-52708548f4be@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, 2 October 2012 21:34:04 UTC+5:30, xDog Walker  wrote:
> On Monday 2012 October 01 08:35, Hans Mulder wrote:
> 
> > AFAIK, there is no Python module that can read shell syntax.
> 
> 
> 
> The stdlib's shlex might be that module.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Yonder nor sorghum stenches shut ladle gulls stopper torque wet 
> 
> strainers.

shlex can only split shell code into tokens.


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 12:16:09 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 09:16:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: parse an environment file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1729.1349193842.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CANy1k1i7XA3pTGeZeWk8V4osPkRoWxkSQJehhix9nHzDzO3HTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1703.1349100773.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5069b829$0$6949$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.1729.1349193842.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e6ae0308-ea4e-4efd-b409-52708548f4be@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, 2 October 2012 21:34:04 UTC+5:30, xDog Walker  wrote:
> On Monday 2012 October 01 08:35, Hans Mulder wrote:
> 
> > AFAIK, there is no Python module that can read shell syntax.
> 
> 
> 
> The stdlib's shlex might be that module.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Yonder nor sorghum stenches shut ladle gulls stopper torque wet 
> 
> strainers.

shlex can only split shell code into tokens.


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 12:17:20 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 09:17:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to apply the user's HTML environment in a Python programme?
In-Reply-To: <4be2f2ac-c061-48d7-baf1-212e28f2f5ec@googlegroups.com>
References: <4382e132-4eb5-4733-9fed-535e704f2175@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1006.1348233763.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<b6b4f390-1f33-452d-9d78-5681f4557d96@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1008.1348234570.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<3de0aac0-d7f2-4990-9428-54c89b143b9a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1014.1348236929.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4be2f2ac-c061-48d7-baf1-212e28f2f5ec@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <33028bcf-9e6e-4460-81d8-4a86de763cf5@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, 1 October 2012 19:49:27 UTC+5:30, BobAalsma  wrote:
> Op vrijdag 21 september 2012 16:15:30 UTC+2 schreef Joel Goldstick het volgende:
> 
> > On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 9:58 AM, BobAalsma wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > > Op vrijdag 21 september 2012 15:36:11 UTC+2 schreef Jerry Hill het volgende:
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 9:31 AM, BobAalsma wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> > Thanks, Joel, yes, but as far as I'm aware these would all require the Python programme to have the user's username and password (or "credentials"), which I wanted to avoid.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> No matter what you do, your web service is going to have to
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> authenticate with the remote web site.  The details of that
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> authentication are going to vary with each remote web site you want to
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> connect to.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> --
> 
> > 
> 
> > >>
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> Jerry
> 
> > 
> 
> > >
> 
> > 
> 
> > > Hmm, from the previous posts I get the impression that I could best solve this by asking the user for the specific combination of username, password and URL + promising not to keep any of that...
> 
> > 
> 
> > >
> 
> > 
> 
> > > OK, that does sound doable - thank you all
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > I recommend that you write your program to read pages that are not
> 
> > 
> 
> > protected.  Once you get that working, you can go back and figure out
> 
> > 
> 
> > how you want to get the username/password from your 'friends' and add
> 
> > 
> 
> > that in.  Also look up Beautiful Soup (version 4) for a great library
> 
> > 
> 
> > to parse the pages that you retrieve
> 
> > 
> 
> > >
> 
> > 
> 
> > > Bob
> 
> > 
> 
> > > --
> 
> > 
> 
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > -- 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Joel Goldstick
> 
> 
> 
> Joel, 
> 
> 
> 
> I've spent some time with this but don't really understand my results - some help would be appreciated.
> 
> I've built a tester that will read my LinkedIn home page, which is password protected.
> 
> When I use that method for reading other people's pages, the program is redirected to the LinkedIn login page.
> 
> When I paste the URLs for the other people's pages in any browser, the requested pages are shown.
> 
> 
> 
> Bob

Not all the authentication information is in the URL.
Some of it is in cookies in the browser.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Oct  2 12:44:45 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 17:44:45 +0100
Subject: Slicing iterables in sub-generators without loosing elements
In-Reply-To: <e895bf8b-514b-4dc2-a43e-50de4f9c3a9e@googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.1636.1348935354.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<040cf4f0-e6de-45b1-add4-462c02fc2c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1700.1349079470.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e895bf8b-514b-4dc2-a43e-50de4f9c3a9e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k4f5h2$cs8$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 02/10/2012 17:12, Ramchandra Apte wrote:
> On Monday, 1 October 2012 13:47:50 UTC+5:30, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
>> On 01/10/2012 01:58, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Your question seems vague to me. If you know you are storing
>>
>>> only immutable tuples in a list, then the way to iterate is simple.
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Does Python have a magic method that let's me use mutable tuples?  I'd
>>
>> also like immutable lists.  Is it worth raising a feature request on the
>>
>> bug tracker?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark Lawrence.
>
> Mark, you are talking to a bot.
>

What happened to freedom of speech?  If I want to talk to a bot, I'll 
talk to a bot.  Besides I'm not convinced it/he/she is a bot.  Plus if 
you read my post carefully, add in several years experience of Python 
the language and Python the comedy, you might come to the conclusion 
that a certain amount of urine extraction was going on :)

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Tue Oct  2 12:54:41 2012
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 18:54:41 +0200
Subject: unit testing class hierarchies
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1725.1349186875.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <v53rj9-5kd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<mailman.1725.1349186875.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <irirj9-sme.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 02.10.2012 16:06, schrieb Thomas Bach:
> On Tue, Oct 02, 2012 at 02:27:11PM +0200, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
>> As you see, the code for test_base() is redundant, so the idea is to
>> move it to a baseclass:
>>
>> class TestBase(unittest.TestCase):
>>      def test_base(self):
>>          ...
>>
>> class TestD1(TestBase):
>>      def test_r(self):
>>          ...
>>      def test_s(self):
>>          ...
>>
>> class TestD2(TestBase):
>>      def test_x(self):
>>          ...
>>      def test_y(self):
>>          ...
>
> Could you provide more background? How do you avoid that test_base()
> runs in TestD1 or TestD2?

Sorry, there's a misunderstanding: I want test_base() to be run as part 
of both TestD1 and TestD2, because it tests basic functions provided by 
both classes D1 and D2. The instances of D1 and D2 are created in 
TestD1.setUp and TestD2.setUp and then used by all tests. There is no 
possible implementation creating such an instance for TestBase, since 
the baseclass is abstract.

Last edit for today, I hope that makes my intentions clear...

;)

Uli



From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct  2 13:38:23 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 19:38:23 +0200
Subject: unit testing class hierarchies
References: <v53rj9-5kd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<mailman.1725.1349186875.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<irirj9-sme.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <k4f8q4$bgg$1@ger.gmane.org>

Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:

> Am 02.10.2012 16:06, schrieb Thomas Bach:
>> On Tue, Oct 02, 2012 at 02:27:11PM +0200, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
>>> As you see, the code for test_base() is redundant, so the idea is to
>>> move it to a baseclass:
>>>
>>> class TestBase(unittest.TestCase):
>>>      def test_base(self):
>>>          ...
>>>
>>> class TestD1(TestBase):
>>>      def test_r(self):
>>>          ...
>>>      def test_s(self):
>>>          ...
>>>
>>> class TestD2(TestBase):
>>>      def test_x(self):
>>>          ...
>>>      def test_y(self):
>>>          ...
>>
>> Could you provide more background? How do you avoid that test_base()
>> runs in TestD1 or TestD2?
> 
> Sorry, there's a misunderstanding: I want test_base() to be run as part
> of both TestD1 and TestD2, because it tests basic functions provided by
> both classes D1 and D2. The instances of D1 and D2 are created in
> TestD1.setUp and TestD2.setUp and then used by all tests. There is no
> possible implementation creating such an instance for TestBase, since
> the baseclass is abstract.
> 
> Last edit for today, I hope that makes my intentions clear...
> 
> ;)

Ceterum censeo baseclassinem esse delendam ;)

$ cat test_shared.py
import unittest

class Shared(unittest.TestCase):
    def test_shared(self):
        pass

class D1(Shared):
    def test_d1_only(self):
        pass

class D2(Shared):
    def test_d2_only(self):
        pass

del Shared

unittest.main()

$ python test_shared.py -v
test_d1_only (__main__.D1) ... ok
test_shared (__main__.D1) ... ok
test_d2_only (__main__.D2) ... ok
test_shared (__main__.D2) ... ok

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ran 4 tests in 0.000s

OK
$ 




From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct  2 13:40:38 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 19:40:38 +0200
Subject: unit testing class hierarchies
References: <v53rj9-5kd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<k4etu4$v1m$1@ger.gmane.org> <k4evs1$k8o$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <k4f8u9$bgg$2@ger.gmane.org>

Fayaz Yusuf Khan wrote:

> Peter Otten wrote:
> 
>> Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
>>> The problem here is that TestBase is not a complete test case (just
> as
>>> class Base is not complete), but the unittest framework will still
> try
>>> to run it on its own.
> How exactly are you invoking the test runner? unittest? nose? You can
> tell the test discoverer which classes you want it to run and which
> ones you don't. For the unittest library, I use my own custom
> load_tests methods:
> def load_tests(loader, tests, pattern):
>     testcases = [TestD1, TestD2]
>     return TestSuite([loader.loadTestsFromTestCase(testcase)
>                       for testcase in testcases])
> http://docs.python.org/library/unittest.html#load-tests-protocol
> 
>>> One way around this is to not derive class
>>> TestBase from unittest.
>> 
>> Another is to remove it from the global namespace with
>> 
>> del TestBase
> Removing the class from namespace may or may not help. Consider a
> scenario where someone decided to be creative with the cls.__bases__
> attribute.

Isn't that a bit far-fetched? I'd rather start simple and fix problems as 
they arise... 




From dreamingforward at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 13:51:04 2012
From: dreamingforward at gmail.com (Mark Adam)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 12:51:04 -0500
Subject: Are ABCs an anti-pattern?
In-Reply-To: <506AF8C9.8060406@gmail.com>
References: <506AF8C9.8060406@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMjeLr_j=ZLhMig7PhL2eR6ODAzvO1fXSv3x0UBZd6terp267A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Demian Brecht <demianbrecht at gmail.com>wrote:

> I don't use them anymore, but I'm curious about others opinions on this
> list...
>

Interesting question.  I think they haven't been useful for representing
the real world as everyone hoped, but are pretty good for organizing
structures within the Python universe (like "object "collections" -->
{'list','set','dict'...}, for example).

mark
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From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 13:51:31 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 10:51:31 -0700
Subject: unit testing class hierarchies
In-Reply-To: <irirj9-sme.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <v53rj9-5kd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<mailman.1725.1349186875.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<irirj9-sme.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <CAE+T62bMNADKcH=FERtfwv-Ut+S18zc2cGgiGxwaqJMQo8TqPg@mail.gmail.com>

Am I missing something? Is there something that wasn't answered by my reply
about using mixins?

from unittest import TestCase

class SharedTestMixin(object):
    def test_shared(self):
        self.assertNotEquals('foo', 'bar')

class TestA(TestCase, SharedTestMixin):
    def test_a(self):
        self.assertEquals('a', 'a')

class TestB(TestCase, SharedTestMixin):
    def test_b(self):
        self.assertEquals('b', 'b')

$ nosetests test.py -v
test_a (test.TestA) ... ok
test_shared (test.TestA) ... ok
test_b (test.TestB) ... ok
test_shared (test.TestB) ... ok

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ran 4 tests in 0.001s

OK

This seems to be a clear answer to the problem that solves the original
requirements without introducing error-prone, non-obvious solutions.



> Sorry, there's a misunderstanding: I want test_base() to be run as part of
> both TestD1 and TestD2, because it tests basic functions provided by both
> classes D1 and D2. The instances of D1 and D2 are created in TestD1.setUp
> and TestD2.setUp and then used by all tests. There is no possible
> implementation creating such an instance for TestBase, since the baseclass
> is abstract.
>
> Last edit for today, I hope that makes my intentions clear...
>
> ;)
>
> Uli
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-list<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 13:58:02 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 03:58:02 +1000
Subject: Slicing iterables in sub-generators without loosing elements
In-Reply-To: <k4f5h2$cs8$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.1636.1348935354.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<040cf4f0-e6de-45b1-add4-462c02fc2c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1700.1349079470.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e895bf8b-514b-4dc2-a43e-50de4f9c3a9e@googlegroups.com>
	<k4f5h2$cs8$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpAMotuywCEWc46vuXSFd71EjuinbKRGvQeJWo2A1C1nA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 2:44 AM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> What happened to freedom of speech?  If I want to talk to a bot, I'll talk
> to a bot.  Besides I'm not convinced it/he/she is a bot.  Plus if you read
> my post carefully, add in several years experience of Python the language
> and Python the comedy, you might come to the conclusion that a certain
> amount of urine extraction was going on :)

Coupled with a bit of bot-seeding, which is always fun.

One of these days I'm going to mail Dihedral a whole pile of Gilbert
and Sullivan operetta and see if any of it comes back in his posts...

Dihedral might be a bot and might not. I've come to the conclusion
that it's not worth trying to find out, given that a good bot can
outdo a lot of humans in useful conversation.

ChrisA


From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 14:06:42 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 11:06:42 -0700
Subject: unit testing class hierarchies
In-Reply-To: <k4f8q4$bgg$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <v53rj9-5kd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<mailman.1725.1349186875.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<irirj9-sme.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<k4f8q4$bgg$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAE+T62YY20kv1Yki3Noq0X_G1-RW5+kx851GmyrrZgpKpU+tsw@mail.gmail.com>

Am I missing something? Is there something that wasn't answered by my reply
about using mixins?

from unittest import TestCase

class SharedTestMixin(object):
    def test_shared(self):
        self.assertNotEquals('foo', 'bar')

class TestA(TestCase, SharedTestMixin):
    def test_a(self):
        self.assertEquals('a', 'a')

class TestB(TestCase, SharedTestMixin):
    def test_b(self):
        self.assertEquals('b', 'b')

$ nosetests test.py -v
test_a (test.TestA) ... ok
test_shared (test.TestA) ... ok
test_b (test.TestB) ... ok
test_shared (test.TestB) ... ok

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ran 4 tests in 0.001s

OK

This seems to be a clear answer to the problem that solves the original
requirements without introducing error-prone, non-obvious solutions.
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From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Oct  2 14:35:55 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 19:35:55 +0100
Subject: Slicing iterables in sub-generators without loosing elements
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpAMotuywCEWc46vuXSFd71EjuinbKRGvQeJWo2A1C1nA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1636.1348935354.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<040cf4f0-e6de-45b1-add4-462c02fc2c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1700.1349079470.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e895bf8b-514b-4dc2-a43e-50de4f9c3a9e@googlegroups.com>
	<k4f5h2$cs8$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAPTjJmpAMotuywCEWc46vuXSFd71EjuinbKRGvQeJWo2A1C1nA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k4fc32$afo$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 02/10/2012 18:58, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
> Dihedral might be a bot and might not. I've come to the conclusion
> that it's not worth trying to find out, given that a good bot can
> outdo a lot of humans in useful conversation.
>
> ChrisA
>

Try telling that to the newbies on the Python tutor mailing list and 
they simply won't believe ya :)

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Oct  2 14:41:11 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 19:41:11 +0100
Subject: unit testing class hierarchies
In-Reply-To: <CAE+T62YY20kv1Yki3Noq0X_G1-RW5+kx851GmyrrZgpKpU+tsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v53rj9-5kd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<mailman.1725.1349186875.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<irirj9-sme.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<k4f8q4$bgg$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAE+T62YY20kv1Yki3Noq0X_G1-RW5+kx851GmyrrZgpKpU+tsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k4fccv$dep$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 02/10/2012 19:06, Demian Brecht wrote:
> Am I missing something? Is there something that wasn't answered by my reply
> about using mixins?
>
> from unittest import TestCase
>
> class SharedTestMixin(object):
>      def test_shared(self):
>          self.assertNotEquals('foo', 'bar')
>
> class TestA(TestCase, SharedTestMixin):
>      def test_a(self):
>          self.assertEquals('a', 'a')
>
> class TestB(TestCase, SharedTestMixin):
>      def test_b(self):
>          self.assertEquals('b', 'b')
>
> $ nosetests test.py -v
> test_a (test.TestA) ... ok
> test_shared (test.TestA) ... ok
> test_b (test.TestB) ... ok
> test_shared (test.TestB) ... ok
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ran 4 tests in 0.001s
>
> OK
>
> This seems to be a clear answer to the problem that solves the original
> requirements without introducing error-prone, non-obvious solutions.
>
>
>

Peter Otten's response is obviously vastly superior to yours, 4 tests in 
0.000s compared to your highly inefficient 4 tests in 0.001s :)

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Oct  2 14:55:54 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 14:55:54 -0400
Subject: Are ABCs an anti-pattern?
In-Reply-To: <506AF8C9.8060406@gmail.com>
References: <506AF8C9.8060406@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k4fdbv$mcg$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/2/2012 10:23 AM, Demian Brecht wrote:
> I don't use them anymore, but I'm curious about others opinions on this
> list...
>
> The more time I spend in Python, discovering what "Pythonic" code is and
> such, it seems that I throw away much in terms of academic learnings as
> far as "OOP correctness" goes. In doing so, I find that, in general,
> overall LOC (yes, I'm aware that this is a poor metric to judge anything
> on), readability and overall quality of code seems to go up. Yes, you
> give the user much more rope to hang themselves with making the general
> assumption that the user knows what they're doing, but we're all
> consenting adults here after all, right? ;)
>
> As an example, I initially had an OAuth 2.0 client library that was
> roughly 450 LOC (using ABCs, adapter patterns for the various flows,
> etc). Dropping this for a more "Pythonic" (at least, what my
> interpretation of Pythonic code is) brought the entire library down to
> 55 LOC. Having said that, the decline in LOC and overall grok-ability
> wasn't entirely due to moving away from ABCs and dropping the use of
> adapters, but it did have quite a bit to do with it).
>
> As such, I see ABCs as somewhat of an anti-pattern in the Python world.
> The concept is obviously essential in non-duck-typed language using
> strict OOP, but does it *really* belong in Python?

ABCs were added (fairly recently) in 3.0 for the reasons given in
http://python.org/dev/peps/pep-3119/
It was expected that it would take awhile for them to see good, pythonic 
uses. We obviously did okay without them up to 2.7.

They are partly informational, partly meant to help duck typing. I don't 
think they are used much in the stdlib (except to register classes) and 
I have not used them myself.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Oct  2 14:59:04 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 14:59:04 -0400
Subject: Slicing iterables in sub-generators without loosing elements
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpAMotuywCEWc46vuXSFd71EjuinbKRGvQeJWo2A1C1nA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1636.1348935354.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<040cf4f0-e6de-45b1-add4-462c02fc2c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1700.1349079470.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e895bf8b-514b-4dc2-a43e-50de4f9c3a9e@googlegroups.com>
	<k4f5h2$cs8$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAPTjJmpAMotuywCEWc46vuXSFd71EjuinbKRGvQeJWo2A1C1nA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k4fdht$mcg$2@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/2/2012 1:58 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 2:44 AM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> What happened to freedom of speech?  If I want to talk to a bot, I'll talk
>> to a bot.  Besides I'm not convinced it/he/she is a bot.  Plus if you read
>> my post carefully, add in several years experience of Python the language
>> and Python the comedy, you might come to the conclusion that a certain
>> amount of urine extraction was going on :)
>
> Coupled with a bit of bot-seeding, which is always fun.
>
> One of these days I'm going to mail Dihedral a whole pile of Gilbert
> and Sullivan operetta and see if any of it comes back in his posts...
>
> Dihedral might be a bot and might not. I've come to the conclusion
> that it's not worth trying to find out, given that a good bot can
> outdo a lot of humans in useful conversation.

I just read that bots playing Unreal Tournament with an 'act human' 
module seem more human to at least some humans than humans. Perhaps that 
is because humans have to become bot-like to play UT well.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From timothyh2ster at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 15:01:05 2012
From: timothyh2ster at gmail.com (timothy holmes)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 12:01:05 -0700
Subject: trying to unsubscribe
Message-ID: <CAFr3YxHfLUds9dDRe1RXaH72dPbypaY0v+TKLBZzHe1UOL7-kg@mail.gmail.com>

My efforts at trying to unsubscribe are not working. Could you help me with
this, or take this email as a request to unsubscribe.
Thanks,
Timothy Holmes
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From tyler at tysdomain.com  Tue Oct  2 16:00:27 2012
From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 14:00:27 -0600
Subject: design question:game skill system
Message-ID: <506B47DB.9030401@tysdomain.com>

Hello all:
I'm looking at a skill/perk system, where the player builds up his char 
by using perk points to add abilities.
Each perk is under a category, and generally costs go up as you increase 
the perk.
So I'm trying to figure something out; first, I'd really like the cost 
calculation and all of that to be dynamic, so that I don't have to write 
a calculateCost per object. I'd also like to be able to specify 
dependencies and say a level, as well as other factors before a player 
can obtain a perk and have them self documenting. The idea is that a 
player could do something like:
data perk extended health
and it would tell them they require health at 50 before they can 
purchase extended health, as well as the cost, the increase per level 
and the total overall cost.
Any ideas on how to set this up would be really appreciated.
Finally, I'm curious how to store and calculate these. I thought about 
using a uid per perk, then storing something like: {uid:level} on the 
player, but means that I have to lookup the name somehow still in the 
main perk database, then use that uid to check if the player has it. Are 
there better ways of storing skills? I'm also thinking about 
calculation; currently the CalculateMaxHp method would have to add up 
all the possible perks for health, then add stats and all that. That 
could get really rough on performance if it's called often; would 
something like a cache work, where you have something like: 
{attribute:dirty}? So if I call CalculateHealth, it checks for the dirty 
flag, and if it doesn't exist just returns the previous max HP, but if 
the dirty flag is set, it recalculates? Then anything modifying health 
(level gains, perks, stat increases/etc) would just set the dirty flag 
and call calculate?
Thoughts/ideas would be welcome.
Thanks,

-- 
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.



From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 16:08:17 2012
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 16:08:17 -0400
Subject: trying to unsubscribe
In-Reply-To: <CAFr3YxHfLUds9dDRe1RXaH72dPbypaY0v+TKLBZzHe1UOL7-kg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFr3YxHfLUds9dDRe1RXaH72dPbypaY0v+TKLBZzHe1UOL7-kg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+xaw5F4x+CSPs7k73D=Hk1bzGs2xnSHHQ+1eARtiNdV0w@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 3:01 PM, timothy holmes <timothyh2ster at gmail.com> wrote:
> My efforts at trying to unsubscribe are not working. Could you help me with
> this, or take this email as a request to unsubscribe.
> Thanks,
> Timothy Holmes
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
 Go here http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list and look
for unsubscribe near the bottom


-- 
Joel Goldstick


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 16:34:12 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 14:34:12 -0600
Subject: design question:game skill system
In-Reply-To: <506B47DB.9030401@tysdomain.com>
References: <506B47DB.9030401@tysdomain.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmgwdWgefVz04A63OXpntO7gmTz7T+hsXROYiy1C0W5zQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:00 PM, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler at tysdomain.com> wrote:
> Hello all:
> I'm looking at a skill/perk system, where the player builds up his char by
> using perk points to add abilities.
> Each perk is under a category, and generally costs go up as you increase the
> perk.
> So I'm trying to figure something out; first, I'd really like the cost
> calculation and all of that to be dynamic, so that I don't have to write a
> calculateCost per object. I'd also like to be able to specify dependencies
> and say a level, as well as other factors before a player can obtain a perk
> and have them self documenting. The idea is that a player could do something
> like:
> data perk extended health
> and it would tell them they require health at 50 before they can purchase
> extended health, as well as the cost, the increase per level and the total
> overall cost.

What are the cost calculations based on?  If there are specific
formulas then you would need to store them somehow, possibly just as a
function to be called or string to be evaled, but if the security of
the perk database is of concern then you could engineer a more
sandboxed representation.  For dependencies, you can keep them in a
container.  An extended health perk might look something like:

cost_formula = "5 * level ** 2"
dependencies = {HEALTH: 50, PLAYER_LEVEL: 15}
benefits = {HEALTH: "7 * level"}

where HEALTH and PLAYER_LEVEL are just some arbitrary known constants.
 Your core perks library would then be responsible for looking this
information up, running the formulas, and performing whatever
calculations on it are needed.

> Finally, I'm curious how to store and calculate these. I thought about using
> a uid per perk, then storing something like: {uid:level} on the player, but
> means that I have to lookup the name somehow still in the main perk
> database, then use that uid to check if the player has it. Are there better
> ways of storing skills?

When you say uids, you mean UUIDs, right?  I'm not sure what advantage
there is in using abstracted unique identifiers for these.  Assuming
you have full control over what perks are added, you can ensure there
will be no name clashes, so why not just use the name or a name-based
tag to uniquely identify each perk?  Regardless of how you identify
them, though, your code is at some point going to have to go to the
database to look them up, so I would suggest you just go ahead and
write that code, and then you can add some caching later if it turns
out to be needed.

> I'm also thinking about calculation; currently the
> CalculateMaxHp method would have to add up all the possible perks for
> health, then add stats and all that. That could get really rough on
> performance if it's called often; would something like a cache work, where
> you have something like: {attribute:dirty}? So if I call CalculateHealth, it
> checks for the dirty flag, and if it doesn't exist just returns the previous
> max HP, but if the dirty flag is set, it recalculates? Then anything
> modifying health (level gains, perks, stat increases/etc) would just set the
> dirty flag and call calculate?

Sounds reasonable.  I wouldn't use a separate flag attribute, though.
When max HP becomes dirty, clear the cached value, and use the absence
of a cached value to inform your code that it needs to recalculate.


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Tue Oct  2 16:54:20 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 13:54:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Slicing iterables in sub-generators without loosing elements
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1700.1349079470.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1636.1348935354.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<040cf4f0-e6de-45b1-add4-462c02fc2c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1700.1349079470.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <853f0efb-875c-47f3-be4a-f9a667857c4d@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 1, 2012 4:17:50 PM UTC+8, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 01/10/2012 01:58, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> > Your question seems vague to me. If you know you are storing
> 
> > only immutable tuples in a list, then the way to iterate is simple.
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> Does Python have a magic method that let's me use mutable tuples?  I'd 
> 
> also like immutable lists.  Is it worth raising a feature request on the 
> 
> bug tracker?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Lawrence.

Python resolves objects by names and dynamical types.
This will force the programmer to write structured programs.





From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Tue Oct  2 16:54:20 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 13:54:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Slicing iterables in sub-generators without loosing elements
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1700.1349079470.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1636.1348935354.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<040cf4f0-e6de-45b1-add4-462c02fc2c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1700.1349079470.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <853f0efb-875c-47f3-be4a-f9a667857c4d@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 1, 2012 4:17:50 PM UTC+8, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 01/10/2012 01:58, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> > Your question seems vague to me. If you know you are storing
> 
> > only immutable tuples in a list, then the way to iterate is simple.
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> Does Python have a magic method that let's me use mutable tuples?  I'd 
> 
> also like immutable lists.  Is it worth raising a feature request on the 
> 
> bug tracker?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Lawrence.

Python resolves objects by names and dynamical types.
This will force the programmer to write structured programs.





From u4.sunny at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 17:26:05 2012
From: u4.sunny at gmail.com (sunny narang)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 14:26:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python Developers needed in Austin TX with a top notch IT company
Message-ID: <0016597f-ad5c-4e6e-adca-8303372a402b@googlegroups.com>

Job Title: Python developers
Duration: 6 months; 
Location: Austin TX

Responsibilities / Skills: 
1) distributed complex application experience
2) prefer experience with enterprise class identity management systems, particularly around auth/credentials
3) experience with openstack
4) experience with large scale systems
5) Proficiency with Linux, ability to write Bash / Perl / Python scripts to run CRON jobs
6) Experience working in an agile environment and with a distributed team


If interested, please reply with your updated Resume at sunny_narang at persistent.co.in

Regards,

Sunny Narang 
Talent Acquisition
sunny_narang at persistent.co.in
Persistent Systems Ltd. | 20 Glorious Years | www.persistentsys.com


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Oct  2 18:30:19 2012
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 08:30:19 +1000
Subject: unit testing class hierarchies
References: <v53rj9-5kd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<mailman.1725.1349186875.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<irirj9-sme.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <7wwqz8cxs4.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com> writes:

> I want test_base() to be run as part of both TestD1 and TestD2,
> because it tests basic functions provided by both classes D1 and D2.

It sounds, from your description so far, that you have identified a
design flaw in D1 and D2.

The common functionality should be moved to a common code point (maybe a
base class of D1 and D2; maybe a function without need of a class). Then
you'll have only one occurrence of that functionality to test, which is
good design as well as easier test code :-)

-- 
 \      ?When I was a little kid we had a sand box. It was a quicksand |
  `\           box. I was an only child... eventually.? ?Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From hotmail.com at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 19:11:34 2012
From: hotmail.com at gmail.com (hotmail.com at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 16:11:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Issue installing pyopencv in mac
In-Reply-To: <d0f4b2e1-1b0b-4841-8b04-788ff36ecb7a@googlegroups.com>
References: <d0f4b2e1-1b0b-4841-8b04-788ff36ecb7a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0990112d-13d4-401e-804e-4926389ddee0@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, August 29, 2012 6:21:50 AM UTC-4, Rakesh Rocker RuLZzz wrote:
> I tried installing pyopencv in mac but i gives me an error
> 
> I have installed all the dependent softwares like opencv,boost, etc....still unable to fix it.
> 
> also i have updated xcode and using python 2.7
> 
> I also tried using mac port but still no use
> 
> 
> 
> can anybody help me....Thanks in advance.

Are you having these issues? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12354628/errors-met-while-installing-pyopencv-2-1-0-with-opencv-2-4-2

Because I am getting this exact error too.  I installed Boost 1.50.0 and OpenCV 2.4.2 using Homebrew, and am trying to install pyopencv 2.1.0 with pip+virtualenv, to no avail.  Python 2.7.2, Mac OSX Mountain Lion.  I hope someone out there has figured this out.


From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 19:12:59 2012
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 16:12:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Experimental Python-based shell
Message-ID: <8646284b-df85-45fe-a793-56b081c6262c@googlegroups.com>

I've made an experimental Python-based Unix/Linux shell at:

http://JonathansCorner.com/cjsh/

An experimental Unix/Linux command line shell, implemented in Python 3, that takes advantage of some more recent concepts in terms of usability and searching above pinpointing files in heirarchies.

I invite you to try it.

Jonathan Hayward, Jonathan.Hayward at pobox.com, JonathansCorner.com


From roy at panix.com  Tue Oct  2 19:46:00 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 19:46:00 -0400
Subject: unit testing class hierarchies
References: <v53rj9-5kd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<k4etu4$v1m$1@ger.gmane.org> <k4evs1$k8o$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1734.1349199947.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-33F949.19460002102012@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1734.1349199947.27098.python-list at python.org>,
 Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

> >> Another is to remove it from the global namespace with
> >> 
> >> del TestBase

When I had this problem, that's the solution I used.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Oct  2 20:57:20 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Oct 2012 00:57:20 GMT
Subject: Slicing iterables in sub-generators without loosing elements
References: <mailman.1636.1348935354.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<040cf4f0-e6de-45b1-add4-462c02fc2c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1700.1349079470.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e895bf8b-514b-4dc2-a43e-50de4f9c3a9e@googlegroups.com>
	<k4f5h2$cs8$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1737.1349200685.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <506b8d70$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 03 Oct 2012 03:58:02 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:

> Dihedral might be a bot and might not. I've come to the conclusion that
> it's not worth trying to find out, given that a good bot can outdo a lot
> of humans in useful conversation.

Oh, I'm convinced that it's a bot.

The fact that Dihedral never responds to conversations about him/it is a 
give away: nearly all people are far to egotistical to let accusations of 
bot-hood go unchallenged. And even though its responses are grammatically 
correct, they often are semantically meaningless. Even the best AIs 
(Evie, CleverBot, Alice) don't come close to passing the Turing test. It 
helps that Dihedral only talks about computer programming, but even so, 
it has well and truly failed my personal Turing test.

Mind you, some human beings fail the Turing test too:

http://northernplanets.blogspot.com.au/2006/06/failing-turing-test.html


Of course, Dihedral's creator wanted to really confound us, the 
occasional human response would probably muddy the waters sufficiently.



-- 
Steven


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Tue Oct  2 21:11:20 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 18:11:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Slicing iterables in sub-generators without loosing elements
In-Reply-To: <506b8d70$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.1636.1348935354.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<040cf4f0-e6de-45b1-add4-462c02fc2c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1700.1349079470.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e895bf8b-514b-4dc2-a43e-50de4f9c3a9e@googlegroups.com>
	<k4f5h2$cs8$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1737.1349200685.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506b8d70$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7b411618-ab6b-4d07-b272-caf0c4acc3cd@googlegroups.com>

Steven D'Aprano? 2012?10?3????UTC+8??8?57?20????
> On Wed, 03 Oct 2012 03:58:02 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > Dihedral might be a bot and might not. I've come to the conclusion that
> 
> > it's not worth trying to find out, given that a good bot can outdo a lot
> 
> > of humans in useful conversation.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I'm convinced that it's a bot.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that Dihedral never responds to conversations about him/it is a 
> 
> give away: nearly all people are far to egotistical to let accusations of 
> 
> bot-hood go unchallenged. And even though its responses are grammatically 
> 
> correct, they often are semantically meaningless. Even the best AIs 
> 
> (Evie, CleverBot, Alice) don't come close to passing the Turing test. It 
> 
> helps that Dihedral only talks about computer programming, but even so, 
> 
> it has well and truly failed my personal Turing test.
> 
> 
> 
> Mind you, some human beings fail the Turing test too:
> 
> 
> 
> http://northernplanets.blogspot.com.au/2006/06/failing-turing-test.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, Dihedral's creator wanted to really confound us, the 
> 
> occasional human response would probably muddy the waters sufficiently.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Steven

Are you still not getting the generator part  in Python?
Do you really test any generator before?





From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Oct  2 21:20:52 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Oct 2012 01:20:52 GMT
Subject: unit testing class hierarchies
References: <v53rj9-5kd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<mailman.1725.1349186875.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<irirj9-sme.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<mailman.1748.1349217065.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <506b92f3$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 03 Oct 2012 08:30:19 +1000, Ben Finney wrote:

> Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com> writes:
> 
>> I want test_base() to be run as part of both TestD1 and TestD2, because
>> it tests basic functions provided by both classes D1 and D2.
> 
> It sounds, from your description so far, that you have identified a
> design flaw in D1 and D2.
> 
> The common functionality should be moved to a common code point (maybe a
> base class of D1 and D2; maybe a function without need of a class). Then
> you'll have only one occurrence of that functionality to test, which is
> good design as well as easier test code :-)

But surely, regardless of where that functionality is defined, you still 
need to test that both D1 and D2 exhibit the correct behaviour? Otherwise 
D2 (say) may break that functionality and your tests won't notice.

Given a class hierarchy like this:

class AbstractBaseClass:
    spam = "spam"

class D1(AbstractBaseClass): pass
class D2(D1): pass


I write tests like this:

class TestD1CommonBehaviour(unittest.TestCase):
    cls = D1
    def testSpam(self):
         self.assertTrue(self.cls.spam == "spam")
    def testHam(self):
         self.assertFalse(hasattr(self.cls, 'ham'))
    
class TestD2CommonBehaviour(TestD1CommonBehaviour):
    cls = D2

class TestD1SpecialBehaviour(unittest.TestCase):
    # D1 specific tests here

class TestD2SpecialBehaviour(unittest.TestCase):
    # D2 specific tests here



If D2 doesn't inherit from D1, but both from AbstractBaseClass, I need to 
do a little more work. First, in the test suite I create a subclass 
specifically for testing the common behaviour, write tests for that, then 
subclass from that:


class MyD(AbstractBaseClass):
    # Defeat the prohibition on instantiating the base class
    pass

class TestCommonBehaviour(unittest.TestCase):
    cls = MyD
    def testSpam(self):
         self.assertTrue(self.cls.spam == "spam")
    def testHam(self):
         self.assertFalse(hasattr(self.cls, 'ham'))

class TestD1CommonBehaviour(unittest.TestCase):
    cls = D1

class TestD2CommonBehaviour(unittest.TestCase):
    cls = D2

D1 and D2 specific tests remain the same.


Either way, each class gets tested for the full set of expected 
functionality.



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Oct  2 21:24:13 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Oct 2012 01:24:13 GMT
Subject: Slicing iterables in sub-generators without loosing elements
References: <mailman.1636.1348935354.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<040cf4f0-e6de-45b1-add4-462c02fc2c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1700.1349079470.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e895bf8b-514b-4dc2-a43e-50de4f9c3a9e@googlegroups.com>
	<k4f5h2$cs8$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1737.1349200685.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506b8d70$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<7b411618-ab6b-4d07-b272-caf0c4acc3cd@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <506b93bc$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 02 Oct 2012 18:11:20 -0700, 88888 Dihedral wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano? 2012?10?3????UTC+8??8?57?20????

>> Oh, I'm convinced that it's a bot.
>> The fact that Dihedral never responds to conversations about him/it is
>> a give away: nearly all people are far to egotistical to let
>> accusations of bot-hood go unchallenged.
[...]
>> Of course, Dihedral's creator wanted to really confound us, the
>> occasional human response would probably muddy the waters sufficiently.

> Are you still not getting the generator part  in Python? Do you really
> test any generator before?

I rest my case :)

I have many problems with generators. Can you tell me more about them? I 
really need your help. Sometimes, when it is very cold, the diesel 
freezes and the generator raises StopIteration at the wrong place.



-- 
Steven


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Tue Oct  2 21:42:19 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 18:42:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Slicing iterables in sub-generators without loosing elements
In-Reply-To: <506b93bc$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.1636.1348935354.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<040cf4f0-e6de-45b1-add4-462c02fc2c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1700.1349079470.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e895bf8b-514b-4dc2-a43e-50de4f9c3a9e@googlegroups.com>
	<k4f5h2$cs8$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1737.1349200685.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506b8d70$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<7b411618-ab6b-4d07-b272-caf0c4acc3cd@googlegroups.com>
	<506b93bc$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <6034f90d-da05-4cfb-83c3-016832703f74@googlegroups.com>

Steven D'Aprano? 2012?10?3????UTC+8??9?24?13????
> On Tue, 02 Oct 2012 18:11:20 -0700, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > Steven D'Aprano? 2012?10?3????UTC+8??8?57?20????
> 
> 
> 
> >> Oh, I'm convinced that it's a bot.
> 
> >> The fact that Dihedral never responds to conversations about him/it is
> 
> >> a give away: nearly all people are far to egotistical to let
> 
> >> accusations of bot-hood go unchallenged.
> 
> [...]
> 
> >> Of course, Dihedral's creator wanted to really confound us, the
> 
> >> occasional human response would probably muddy the waters sufficiently.
> 
> 
> 
> > Are you still not getting the generator part  in Python? Do you really
> 
> > test any generator before?
> 
> 
> 
> I rest my case :)
> 
> 
> 
> I have many problems with generators. Can you tell me more about them? I 
> 
> really need your help. Sometimes, when it is very cold, the diesel 
> 
> freezes and the generator raises StopIteration at the wrong place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Steven
Please work out your own templates  as I showed in the decorator part.



From contropinion at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 22:03:20 2012
From: contropinion at gmail.com (contro opinion)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 22:03:20 -0400
Subject: local variable 'a' referenced b
Message-ID: <CA+YdQ_63BCEqjVd0W5vTK+r2K0K8JPdfDptFUXLc2jFESZ8Sgg@mail.gmail.com>

code1
>>> def foo():
...     a = 1
...     def bar():
...         b=2
...         print a + b
...     bar()
...
...
>>> foo()
3

code2
>>> def foo():
...     a = 1
...     def bar():
...         b=2
...         a = a + b
...         print a
...     bar()
...
>>> foo()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "<stdin>", line 7, in foo
  File "<stdin>", line 5, in bar
UnboundLocalError: local variable 'a' referenced b

why code2 can not get output of 3?
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20121002/86652bc6/attachment.html>

From d at davea.name  Tue Oct  2 22:26:23 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 22:26:23 -0400
Subject: local variable 'a' referenced b
In-Reply-To: <CA+YdQ_63BCEqjVd0W5vTK+r2K0K8JPdfDptFUXLc2jFESZ8Sgg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YdQ_63BCEqjVd0W5vTK+r2K0K8JPdfDptFUXLc2jFESZ8Sgg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <506BA24F.8060409@davea.name>

On 10/02/2012 10:03 PM, contro opinion wrote:
> code1
>>>> def foo():
> ...     a = 1
> ...     def bar():
> ...         b=2
> ...         print a + b
> ...     bar()
> ...
> ...
>>>> foo()
> 3
>
> code2
>>>> def foo():
> ...     a = 1
> ...     def bar():
> ...         b=2
> ...         a = a + b

Because your function bar() has an assignment to a, it becomes a local,
and masks access to the one in the containing function.

Then because when you start executing that assignment statement, a
hasn't yet gotten a value, you get the error below.

> ...         print a
> ...     bar()
> ...
>>>> foo()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>   File "<stdin>", line 7, in foo
>   File "<stdin>", line 5, in bar
> UnboundLocalError: local variable 'a' referenced b
>
> why code2 can not get output of 3?
>

In Python3, you can avoid the "problem" by declaring a as nonlocal.


def foo():
     a = 1
     def bar():
         nonlocal a
         b=2
         a = a + b
         print (a)
     bar()

foo()

if you're stuck with Python2.x, you can use a mutable object for a, and
mutate it, rather than replace it.  For example,


def foo():
     a = [3]
     def bar():
         b=2
         a.append(b)   #this mutates a, but doesn't assign it
         print (a)
         a[0] += b  #likewise, for a number within the list
         print (a)
     bar()

That should work in either 2.x or 3.2

-- 

DaveA



From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 23:21:17 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 20:21:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Slicing iterables in sub-generators without loosing elements
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1732.1349196199.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1636.1348935354.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<040cf4f0-e6de-45b1-add4-462c02fc2c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1700.1349079470.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e895bf8b-514b-4dc2-a43e-50de4f9c3a9e@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1732.1349196199.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8ddd9288-b822-4cb9-9f7f-99d0d34e1419@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, 2 October 2012 22:13:20 UTC+5:30, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> On 02/10/2012 17:12, Ramchandra Apte wrote:
> 
> > On Monday, 1 October 2012 13:47:50 UTC+5:30, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> 
> >> On 01/10/2012 01:58, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> Your question seems vague to me. If you know you are storing
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> only immutable tuples in a list, then the way to iterate is simple.
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Does Python have a magic method that let's me use mutable tuples?  I'd
> 
> >>
> 
> >> also like immutable lists.  Is it worth raising a feature request on the
> 
> >>
> 
> >> bug tracker?
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> --
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Cheers.
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Mark Lawrence.
> 
> >
> 
> > Mark, you are talking to a bot.
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> What happened to freedom of speech?  If I want to talk to a bot, I'll 
> 
> talk to a bot.  Besides I'm not convinced it/he/she is a bot.  Plus if 
> 
> you read my post carefully, add in several years experience of Python 
> 
> the language and Python the comedy, you might come to the conclusion 
> 
> that a certain amount of urine extraction was going on :)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Lawrence.

Never said you can't.


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 23:21:17 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 20:21:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Slicing iterables in sub-generators without loosing elements
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1732.1349196199.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1636.1348935354.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<040cf4f0-e6de-45b1-add4-462c02fc2c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1700.1349079470.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e895bf8b-514b-4dc2-a43e-50de4f9c3a9e@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1732.1349196199.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8ddd9288-b822-4cb9-9f7f-99d0d34e1419@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, 2 October 2012 22:13:20 UTC+5:30, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> On 02/10/2012 17:12, Ramchandra Apte wrote:
> 
> > On Monday, 1 October 2012 13:47:50 UTC+5:30, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> 
> >> On 01/10/2012 01:58, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> Your question seems vague to me. If you know you are storing
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> only immutable tuples in a list, then the way to iterate is simple.
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Does Python have a magic method that let's me use mutable tuples?  I'd
> 
> >>
> 
> >> also like immutable lists.  Is it worth raising a feature request on the
> 
> >>
> 
> >> bug tracker?
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> --
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Cheers.
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Mark Lawrence.
> 
> >
> 
> > Mark, you are talking to a bot.
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> What happened to freedom of speech?  If I want to talk to a bot, I'll 
> 
> talk to a bot.  Besides I'm not convinced it/he/she is a bot.  Plus if 
> 
> you read my post carefully, add in several years experience of Python 
> 
> the language and Python the comedy, you might come to the conclusion 
> 
> that a certain amount of urine extraction was going on :)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Lawrence.

Never said you can't.


From jason at powerpull.net  Tue Oct  2 23:49:21 2012
From: jason at powerpull.net (Jason Friedman)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 21:49:21 -0600
Subject: parse an environment file
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmq2p5FLq8_w35qguoBhckBTdohb419j_jCWuvTP9vjKog@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANy1k1i7XA3pTGeZeWk8V4osPkRoWxkSQJehhix9nHzDzO3HTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANy1k1g1dt6GQR80LWMkBt+YXzZXxtkUSV=qamWsS8mZXiyaAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrcsPgtcy6Aa5KJ8mRjFuB5b-FBanVQJ1o0M_PnHVpL2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANy1k1hzHqODvV7Eu64maOfCx8Os48wro56HG=uheyjqUos-uQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmq2p5FLq8_w35qguoBhckBTdohb419j_jCWuvTP9vjKog@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANy1k1ifxed+V8v=sG+hU+-TXd+xzo8B0VBcGydardmGLtZNyw@mail.gmail.com>

> Ah, fair enough. Well, since you're using the full range of bash
> functionality, the only viable way to parse it is with bash itself.
> I'd recommend going with the version you have above:
>
>> * * * * * . /path/to/export_file && /path/to/script.py
>
> Under what circumstances is this not an option? That'd be the next
> thing to consider.
>
> Alternatively, you may want to consider making your own config file
> format. If you consciously restrict yourself to a severe subset of
> bash functionality, you could easily parse it in Python - for
> instance, always look for "export %s=%s" with simple strings for the
> variable name and value.
>
Thank you, Chris, off-list post unintentional.  It may be the case
that I do not maintain /path/to/export_file; I might just be allowed
to read it.
Based on your responses and everyone's responses I'm guessing that
what I am doing is sufficiently novel that there is no canned
solution.  I looked at shlex but did not see how that would be
helpful.
Thank you all for your thoughts.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 00:03:59 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 14:03:59 +1000
Subject: parse an environment file
In-Reply-To: <CANy1k1ifxed+V8v=sG+hU+-TXd+xzo8B0VBcGydardmGLtZNyw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANy1k1i7XA3pTGeZeWk8V4osPkRoWxkSQJehhix9nHzDzO3HTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANy1k1g1dt6GQR80LWMkBt+YXzZXxtkUSV=qamWsS8mZXiyaAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrcsPgtcy6Aa5KJ8mRjFuB5b-FBanVQJ1o0M_PnHVpL2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANy1k1hzHqODvV7Eu64maOfCx8Os48wro56HG=uheyjqUos-uQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmq2p5FLq8_w35qguoBhckBTdohb419j_jCWuvTP9vjKog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANy1k1ifxed+V8v=sG+hU+-TXd+xzo8B0VBcGydardmGLtZNyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo62iDiirpaKOE7pVj2VYdJ2hxZF5y_RWm1=JH03=u5wQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Jason Friedman <jason at powerpull.net> wrote:
> Based on your responses and everyone's responses I'm guessing that
> what I am doing is sufficiently novel that there is no canned
> solution.  I looked at shlex but did not see how that would be
> helpful.

The only canned solution for parsing a bash script is bash. Think
about it the other way around: If you wanted to have a Python variable
made available to a bash script, the obvious thing to do is to invoke
Python. It's the same thing.

I recommend going with Hans Mulder's suggestion of a wrapper script;
that seems to be the cleanest option available.

ChrisA


From timr at probo.com  Wed Oct  3 01:08:24 2012
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 22:08:24 -0700
Subject: Experimental Python-based shell
References: <8646284b-df85-45fe-a793-56b081c6262c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b0in68pjl0uchq5ip8j1ntir095ja4cicb@4ax.com>

Jonathan Hayward <christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I've made an experimental Python-based Unix/Linux shell at:
>
>http://JonathansCorner.com/cjsh/
>
>An experimental Unix/Linux command line shell, implemented in Python 3,
>that takes advantage of some more recent concepts in terms of usability
>and searching above pinpointing files in heirarchies.
>
>I invite you to try it.

Without intending to detract from your work in any way, are you familiar
with the IPython project?

    http://ipython.org/

You may find some interesting synergy with them.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 01:54:12 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 22:54:12 -0700
Subject: local variable 'a' referenced b
In-Reply-To: <506BA24F.8060409@davea.name>
References: <CA+YdQ_63BCEqjVd0W5vTK+r2K0K8JPdfDptFUXLc2jFESZ8Sgg@mail.gmail.com>
	<506BA24F.8060409@davea.name>
Message-ID: <506BD304.6090905@gmail.com>

On 12-10-02 07:26 PM, Dave Angel wrote:
>
> if you're stuck with Python2.x, you can use a mutable object for a, and
> mutate it, rather than replace it.  For example,
>
>
> def foo():
>       a = [3]
>       def bar():
>           b=2
>           a.append(b)   #this mutates a, but doesn't assign it
>           print (a)
>           a[0] += b  #likewise, for a number within the list
>           print (a)
>       bar()
>
> That should work in either 2.x or 3.2
>

Alternatively, you can restructure your code by simply adding a 
parameter to bar(). Nice thing about this is that if you ever move bar() 
out into another module, then you don't have to worry about documenting 
the side effects on 'a' so users (including yourself) aren't confused later:

 >>> def foo():
...     a = 1
...     def bar(n):
...             b = 2
...             return n + b
...     a = bar(a)
...     print a
...
 >>> foo()
3


-- 
Demian Brecht
@demianbrecht
http://demianbrecht.github.com


From d at davea.name  Wed Oct  3 02:08:41 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 02:08:41 -0400
Subject: local variable 'a' referenced b
In-Reply-To: <506BD304.6090905@gmail.com>
References: <CA+YdQ_63BCEqjVd0W5vTK+r2K0K8JPdfDptFUXLc2jFESZ8Sgg@mail.gmail.com>
	<506BA24F.8060409@davea.name> <506BD304.6090905@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <506BD669.1050907@davea.name>

On 10/03/2012 01:54 AM, Demian Brecht wrote:
> On 12-10-02 07:26 PM, Dave Angel wrote:
>>
>> if you're stuck with Python2.x, you can use a mutable object for a, and
>> mutate it, rather than replace it.  For example,
>>
>>
>> def foo():
>>       a = [3]
>>       def bar():
>>           b=2
>>           a.append(b)   #this mutates a, but doesn't assign it
>>           print (a)
>>           a[0] += b  #likewise, for a number within the list
>>           print (a)
>>       bar()
>>
>> That should work in either 2.x or 3.2
>>
>
> Alternatively, you can restructure your code by simply adding a
> parameter to bar(). Nice thing about this is that if you ever move
> bar() out into another module, then you don't have to worry about
> documenting the side effects on 'a' so users (including yourself)
> aren't confused later:
>
> >>> def foo():
> ...     a = 1
> ...     def bar(n):
> ...             b = 2
> ...             return n + b
> ...     a = bar(a)
> ...     print a
> ...
> >>> foo()
> 3
>
>

One problem with short examples is they mask the reason for the code to
be structured that way.  I assumed that the OP was really talking about
a closure, and that sharing that variable was deliberate.  I seldom
write nested functions otherwise.

-- 

DaveA



From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 04:05:53 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 01:05:53 -0700
Subject: local variable 'a' referenced b
In-Reply-To: <506BD669.1050907@davea.name>
References: <CA+YdQ_63BCEqjVd0W5vTK+r2K0K8JPdfDptFUXLc2jFESZ8Sgg@mail.gmail.com>
	<506BA24F.8060409@davea.name> <506BD304.6090905@gmail.com>
	<506BD669.1050907@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CAE+T62a-riV+6FzAS9nw_b1CC8uSQZheRWSMevU5OdfaXujxtw@mail.gmail.com>

>
> One problem with short examples is they mask the reason for the code to
> be structured that way.
>
>
Couldn't agree more (I don't think I've ever written a nested function
outside a closure). I made the assumption that the OP wasn't asking about
closures based on his code samples. In hindsight, should have likely asked
for clarification first.
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Oct  3 04:50:09 2012
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 10:50:09 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: design question:game skill system
In-Reply-To: <506B47DB.9030401@tysdomain.com>
Message-ID: <268012065.515960.1349254209142.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>



----- Original Message -----
> Hello all:
> I'm looking at a skill/perk system, where the player builds up his
> char
> by using perk points to add abilities.
> Each perk is under a category, and generally costs go up as you
> increase
> the perk.
> So I'm trying to figure something out; first, I'd really like the
> cost
> calculation and all of that to be dynamic, so that I don't have to
> write
> a calculateCost per object. I'd also like to be able to specify
> dependencies and say a level, as well as other factors before a
> player
> can obtain a perk and have them self documenting. The idea is that a
> player could do something like:
> data perk extended health
> and it would tell them they require health at 50 before they can
> purchase extended health, as well as the cost, the increase per level
> and the total overall cost.
> Any ideas on how to set this up would be really appreciated.
> Finally, I'm curious how to store and calculate these. I thought
> about
> using a uid per perk, then storing something like: {uid:level} on the
> player, but means that I have to lookup the name somehow still in the
> main perk database, then use that uid to check if the player has it.
> Are
> there better ways of storing skills? I'm also thinking about
> calculation; currently the CalculateMaxHp method would have to add up
> all the possible perks for health, then add stats and all that. That
> could get really rough on performance if it's called often; would
> something like a cache work, where you have something like:
> {attribute:dirty}? So if I call CalculateHealth, it checks for the
> dirty
> flag, and if it doesn't exist just returns the previous max HP, but
> if
> the dirty flag is set, it recalculates? Then anything modifying
> health
> (level gains, perks, stat increases/etc) would just set the dirty
> flag
> and call calculate?
> Thoughts/ideas would be welcome.
> Thanks,

Hi,

Again, do not think about performances before actually having an issue with them. What's the point to optimize something that doesn't need it ?

For your cache problem, google "python memoize decorator" for a bunch of decorators that will allow you to cache your data without any effort.

JM


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 05:33:55 2012
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 10:33:55 +0100
Subject: unit testing class hierarchies
In-Reply-To: <506b92f3$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <v53rj9-5kd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<mailman.1725.1349186875.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<irirj9-sme.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<mailman.1748.1349217065.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506b92f3$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxQN1B0iZHVSQGh0++f=G_g=bpi0a+QZYznrcjaVSQwUzA@mail.gmail.com>

On 3 October 2012 02:20, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>
> But surely, regardless of where that functionality is defined, you still
> need to test that both D1 and D2 exhibit the correct behaviour? Otherwise
> D2 (say) may break that functionality and your tests won't notice.
>
> Given a class hierarchy like this:
>
> class AbstractBaseClass:
>     spam = "spam"
>
> class D1(AbstractBaseClass): pass
> class D2(D1): pass
>
>
> I write tests like this:
>
> class TestD1CommonBehaviour(unittest.TestCase):
>     cls = D1
>     def testSpam(self):
>          self.assertTrue(self.cls.spam == "spam")
>     def testHam(self):
>          self.assertFalse(hasattr(self.cls, 'ham'))
>
> class TestD2CommonBehaviour(TestD1CommonBehaviour):
>     cls = D2

That's an excellent idea. I wanted a convenient way to run the same
tests on two classes in order to test both a pure python and a
cython-accelerator module implementation of the same class. I find it
difficult to work out how to do such simple things with unittest
because of its Java-like insistence on organising all tests into
classes. I can't immediately remember what solution I came up with but
yours is definitely better.


Oscar


From grahn+nntp at snipabacken.se  Wed Oct  3 09:48:11 2012
From: grahn+nntp at snipabacken.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 3 Oct 2012 13:48:11 GMT
Subject: Experimental Python-based shell
References: <8646284b-df85-45fe-a793-56b081c6262c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrnk6oggq.1d3.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Tue, 2012-10-02, Jonathan Hayward wrote:
> I've made an experimental Python-based Unix/Linux shell at:
>
> http://JonathansCorner.com/cjsh/
>
> An experimental Unix/Linux command line shell, implemented in Python
> 3, that takes advantage of some more recent concepts in terms of
> usability and searching above pinpointing files in heirarchies.
>
> I invite you to try it.

Hard to do without a manual page, or any documentation at all except
for a tiny "hello world"-style example ...

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .


From amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 09:52:57 2012
From: amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com (Amirouche Boubekki)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 15:52:57 +0200
Subject: Experimental Python-based shell
In-Reply-To: <8646284b-df85-45fe-a793-56b081c6262c@googlegroups.com>
References: <8646284b-df85-45fe-a793-56b081c6262c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAL7_Mo-dze8rm7=0URB9RTL_QHHWb+NovPu4KpDc21AH2ASNJA@mail.gmail.com>

H?llo,

2012/10/3 Jonathan Hayward <christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com>

> I've made an experimental Python-based Unix/Linux shell at:
>
> http://JonathansCorner.com/cjsh/
>
> An experimental Unix/Linux command line shell, implemented in Python 3,
> that takes advantage of some more recent concepts in terms of usability and
> searching above pinpointing files in heirarchies.
>

This sound like a great idea!  What are the other benefits of it except the
file lookup thing ? Does it do fuzzy match yet ?

Is there any repository on bitbucket or github ?

Thanks,

Amirouche
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From boxeakasteen at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 10:26:43 2012
From: boxeakasteen at gmail.com (Steen Lysgaard)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:26:43 +0200
Subject: Combinations of lists
Message-ID: <506C4B23.6020809@gmail.com>

Hi,

I am looking for a clever way to compute all combinations of two lists. 
Look at this example:

h = ['A','A','B','B']
m = ['a','b']

the resulting combinations should be of the same length as h and each 
element in m can be used twice. The sought after result using h and m 
from above is:

[['aA', 'aA', 'bB', 'bB'],
  ['aA', 'aB', 'bA', 'bB'],
  ['aB', 'aB', 'bA', 'bA']]

(the order of the results does not matter i.e. ['aA', 'aA', 'bB', 'bB'] 
and ['aA', 'bB', 'aA', 'bB'] are considered the same)

This is achieved by the code below, this however needs to go through all 
possible combinations (faculty of len(h)) and rule out duplicates as 
they occur and this is too much if for example len(h) is 16.

Can anyone guide me to a better solution?

Thanks,
Steen

h = ['A','A','B','B']
m = ['a','b']

c = []
for i in h:
     c.append([])
     for j in m:
         c[-1].append(j+i)
         c[-1].append(j+i)

combs = []

for a in permutations(range(len(h)),len(h)):
     comb = []
     for i in range(len(h)):
         comb.append(c[i][a[i]])
     comb.sort()

     if comb not in combs:
         combs.append(comb)

print combs

print len(combs)


From sahnov.m at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 10:37:17 2012
From: sahnov.m at gmail.com (=?KOI8-R?B?88HIzs/XIO3JyMHJzA==?=)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 18:37:17 +0400
Subject: Combinations of lists
In-Reply-To: <506C4B23.6020809@gmail.com>
References: <506C4B23.6020809@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPMbb2X2Mh1gZh8GgVGwSGZegspU+S04Dnp5j3nYpN7TYzjSyg@mail.gmail.com>

>>> t1 = [1,2,3]
>>> t2 = [4,5,6]
>>> [(x,y) for x in t1 for y in t2]
[(1, 4), (1, 5), (1, 6), (2, 4), (2, 5), (2, 6), (3, 4), (3, 5), (3, 6)]


2012/10/3 Steen Lysgaard <boxeakasteen at gmail.com>

> Hi,
>
> I am looking for a clever way to compute all combinations of two lists.
> Look at this example:
>
> h = ['A','A','B','B']
> m = ['a','b']
>
> the resulting combinations should be of the same length as h and each
> element in m can be used twice. The sought after result using h and m from
> above is:
>
> [['aA', 'aA', 'bB', 'bB'],
>  ['aA', 'aB', 'bA', 'bB'],
>  ['aB', 'aB', 'bA', 'bA']]
>
> (the order of the results does not matter i.e. ['aA', 'aA', 'bB', 'bB']
> and ['aA', 'bB', 'aA', 'bB'] are considered the same)
>
> This is achieved by the code below, this however needs to go through all
> possible combinations (faculty of len(h)) and rule out duplicates as they
> occur and this is too much if for example len(h) is 16.
>
> Can anyone guide me to a better solution?
>
> Thanks,
> Steen
>
> h = ['A','A','B','B']
> m = ['a','b']
>
> c = []
> for i in h:
>     c.append([])
>     for j in m:
>         c[-1].append(j+i)
>         c[-1].append(j+i)
>
> combs = []
>
> for a in permutations(range(len(h)),**len(h)):
>     comb = []
>     for i in range(len(h)):
>         comb.append(c[i][a[i]])
>     comb.sort()
>
>     if comb not in combs:
>         combs.append(comb)
>
> print combs
>
> print len(combs)
> --
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-list<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>



-- 
--
ICQ:#7499099
JID:soider at jabber.ru
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From alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr  Wed Oct  3 11:11:42 2012
From: alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (Alain Ketterlin)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 17:11:42 +0200
Subject: Combinations of lists
References: <mailman.1760.1349274409.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87zk43fv4h.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>

Steen Lysgaard <boxeakasteen at gmail.com> writes:

> I am looking for a clever way to compute all combinations of two
> lists. Look at this example:
>
> h = ['A','A','B','B']
> m = ['a','b']
>
> the resulting combinations should be of the same length as h and each
> element in m can be used twice. The sought after result using h and m
> from above is:
>
> [['aA', 'aA', 'bB', 'bB'],
>  ['aA', 'aB', 'bA', 'bB'],
>  ['aB', 'aB', 'bA', 'bA']]

I can't make sense of your explanation, which doesn't seem to match your
example (the result is not of the same size as h).

Here is a way to compute { xh | x in m }, where xh is a list where x is
prepended to each element of h.

result = [ [ x+l for l in h ] for x in m ]

If there is no duplicate in the original lists, then there will be no
duplicate in the result. Is that what you are looking for?

-- Alain.


From jonathan.hayward at pobox.com  Wed Oct  3 11:40:05 2012
From: jonathan.hayward at pobox.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 10:40:05 -0500
Subject: Experimental Python-based shell
In-Reply-To: <CAL7_Mo-dze8rm7=0URB9RTL_QHHWb+NovPu4KpDc21AH2ASNJA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8646284b-df85-45fe-a793-56b081c6262c@googlegroups.com>
	<CAL7_Mo-dze8rm7=0URB9RTL_QHHWb+NovPu4KpDc21AH2ASNJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE6_B5QHBE_8jk7x4EkFdwTdEpUNGmSxP-+4QkE6wuC_KbxAQw@mail.gmail.com>

The chief benefit besides the searching, so far, is that you can use Py3k
mixed with shell commands as the scripting language--so script in Python
instead of bash.

When using Python for scripting, Python lines are indented by an extra tab
(or four spaces) while shell-like commands are not indented. So:

cjsh>     for index in range(10):
----> echo %(index)d
---->
0
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9

Echo could (and maybe should) be a built-in, but it isn't. The output is
os.system()'ed to bash, which echoes based on a command that includes the
value of a Python variable. The implementation is a bit crude, but it is
reasonably powerful.

I have other things on the agenda, like making it able to run scripts and
doing fuzzy matching, but for now those are the main two attractions.

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:52 AM, Amirouche Boubekki <
amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com> wrote:

> H?llo,
>
> 2012/10/3 Jonathan Hayward <christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com>
>
>> I've made an experimental Python-based Unix/Linux shell at:
>>
>> http://JonathansCorner.com/cjsh/
>>
>> An experimental Unix/Linux command line shell, implemented in Python 3,
>> that takes advantage of some more recent concepts in terms of usability and
>> searching above pinpointing files in heirarchies.
>>
>
> This sound like a great idea!  What are the other benefits of it except
> the file lookup thing ? Does it do fuzzy match yet ?
>
> Is there any repository on bitbucket or github ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Amirouche
>



-- 
[image: Christos Jonathan Hayward] <http://jonathanscorner.com/>
Christos Jonathan Hayward, an Orthodox Christian author.

*Amazon <http://amazon.com/author/cjshayward>* ? Author
Bio<http://jonathanscorner.com/author/>
 ? *Email <christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com>* ?
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 ? Google Plus <http://jonathanscorner.com/plus> ?
*Kindle<http://stornge.com/amazon>
* ? LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward> ?
*Professional<http://jonathanhayward.com/>
* ? Twitter <http://twitter.com/JonathansCorner> ?
*Web<http://jonathanscorner.com/>
* ? What's New? <http://jonathanscorner.com/>
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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Oct  3 11:42:47 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Oct 2012 15:42:47 GMT
Subject: Combinations of lists
References: <mailman.1760.1349274409.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <506c5cf7$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:26:43 +0200, Steen Lysgaard wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am looking for a clever way to compute all combinations of two lists.
> Look at this example:
> 
> h = ['A','A','B','B']
> m = ['a','b']
> 
> the resulting combinations should be of the same length as h and each
> element in m can be used twice. 

Why twice? What if you had these?

h = ['A', 'A', 'B', 'B', 'C', 'D', 'E', 'E']
m = ['a', 'b', 'c']

Would you still use each element in m twice? Or some other number?



> The sought after result using h and m from above is:
> 
> [['aA', 'aA', 'bB', 'bB'],
>   ['aA', 'aB', 'bA', 'bB'],
>   ['aB', 'aB', 'bA', 'bA']]
> 
> (the order of the results does not matter i.e. ['aA', 'aA', 'bB', 'bB']
> and ['aA', 'bB', 'aA', 'bB'] are considered the same)
> 
> This is achieved by the code below, this however needs to go through all
> possible combinations (faculty of len(h)) and rule out duplicates as
> they occur and this is too much if for example len(h) is 16.

I don't understand this requirement. In the example above, you don't rule 
out duplicates. Both 'aA' and 'bB' are duplicated. What duplicates are 
you ruling out?



-- 
Steven


From mpg at elzevir.fr  Wed Oct  3 12:20:00 2012
From: mpg at elzevir.fr (Manuel =?iso-8859-1?q?P=E9gouri=E9-Gonnard?=)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 18:20:00 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Combinations of lists
References: <mailman.1760.1349274409.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506c5cf7$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <k4hojg$t3h$1@thue.elzevir.fr>

Steven D'Aprano scripsit :

> On Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:26:43 +0200, Steen Lysgaard wrote:
>
>> This is achieved by the code below, this however needs to go through all
>> possible combinations (faculty of len(h)) and rule out duplicates as
>> they occur and this is too much if for example len(h) is 16.
>
> I don't understand this requirement. In the example above, you don't rule 
> out duplicates. Both 'aA' and 'bB' are duplicated. What duplicates are 
> you ruling out?
>
I think the requirement is that r[i] != r[j] as soon as i != j, if r is
the resulting list of lists. (As opposed to having r[i][j] != r[i][k] for all i
and j != k.)

-- 
Manuel P?gouri?-Gonnard - http://people.math.jussieu.fr/~mpg/




From bringa at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 12:23:03 2012
From: bringa at gmail.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 09:23:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help me abstract this (and stop me from using eval)
Message-ID: <2d902087-7a52-46b8-83a5-f163a87ee88e@googlegroups.com>

Hi!

I've got import scripts for a bunch of csv files into an sqlite database. I have one csv file per language. I don't write directly to the sqlite db; this is a django app and I'm creating items in my django models. 

My script (scripts, unfortunately) work just fine, but it feels beyond stupid to have one script per language--importgerman, importfrench etc. The problem is that I don't know how to abstract which language I'm currently writing to. Here's the central loop:

http://pastebin.com/NBT6feNB

This is for the Polish version of the script, of course, the one that gets fed pl.csv. For those unfamiliar with django, I need to first retrieve the message instance for issue name / long text / short text / category name. Hence the ugly tempmes stuff. 

So ideally I would tell the script which language I'm currently importing and based on that it would write to the appropriate text fields. But I don't know how to abstract this:

tempmes.polish = row[1]

Well, I do. Like this:

eval("tempmes." + language + " = row[1]")

But... eval is evil, no? There's got to be a better way? 


From amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 12:25:32 2012
From: amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com (Amirouche Boubekki)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 18:25:32 +0200
Subject: Experimental Python-based shell
In-Reply-To: <CAE6_B5QHBE_8jk7x4EkFdwTdEpUNGmSxP-+4QkE6wuC_KbxAQw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8646284b-df85-45fe-a793-56b081c6262c@googlegroups.com>
	<CAL7_Mo-dze8rm7=0URB9RTL_QHHWb+NovPu4KpDc21AH2ASNJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE6_B5QHBE_8jk7x4EkFdwTdEpUNGmSxP-+4QkE6wuC_KbxAQw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL7_Mo8uJLS68jFP-9-GzvjYu3RdqTXtAz8W9YJc=sfi9HOCQQ@mail.gmail.com>

2012/10/3 Jonathan Hayward <jonathan.hayward at pobox.com>

> The chief benefit besides the searching, so far, is that you can use Py3k
> mixed with shell commands as the scripting language--so script in Python
> instead of bash.
>
> When using Python for scripting, Python lines are indented by an extra tab
> (or four spaces) while shell-like commands are not indented. So:
>
> cjsh>     for index in range(10):
> ----> echo %(index)d
> ---->
> 0
> 1
> 2
> 3
> 4
> 5
> 6
> 7
> 8
> 9
>
> Echo could (and maybe should) be a built-in, but it isn't. The output is
> os.system()'ed to bash, which echoes based on a command that includes the
> value of a Python variable. The implementation is a bit crude, but it is
> reasonably powerful.
>
> I have other things on the agenda, like making it able to run scripts and
> doing fuzzy matching, but for now those are the main two attractions.
>

Is it possible to drop completly the bash syntax and use some python
library (I saw it on github) that wraps bash commands with python functions
or the other around making it possible to call python functions with a
bash-like syntax. The syntax you are talking about seems strange.

Regards,

Amirouche
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From kwpolska at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 12:33:05 2012
From: kwpolska at gmail.com (Kwpolska)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 18:33:05 +0200
Subject: Help me abstract this (and stop me from using eval)
In-Reply-To: <2d902087-7a52-46b8-83a5-f163a87ee88e@googlegroups.com>
References: <2d902087-7a52-46b8-83a5-f163a87ee88e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAMw+j7LqzA=UQRfz39x=4YGL8i2rBtArcn4tk11Kt2Zo945Lpg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 6:23 PM, Daniel Klein <bringa at gmail.com> wrote:
> tempmes.polish = row[1]
>
> Well, I do. Like this:
>
> eval("tempmes." + language + " = row[1]")
>
> But... eval is evil, no? There's got to be a better way?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Easy.

tempmes = myissue.name
language = 'polish'
setattr(tempmes, language, row[1])
tempmes.save()

-- 
Kwpolska <http://kwpolska.tk>
stop html mail      | always bottom-post
www.asciiribbon.org | www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
GPG KEY: 5EAAEA16


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 12:34:28 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 10:34:28 -0600
Subject: Combinations of lists
In-Reply-To: <506c5cf7$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.1760.1349274409.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506c5cf7$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkMPVWXr4-zYTLN-ReMDiiYuP2ro4SgqCbR6GUNu-Zrmg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> I don't understand this requirement. In the example above, you don't rule
> out duplicates. Both 'aA' and 'bB' are duplicated. What duplicates are
> you ruling out?

Duplicate multisets, not duplicate strings.

I'll take a crack at this problem sometime later, but right now I
don't have the time.


From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 12:35:26 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 09:35:26 -0700
Subject: Are ABCs an anti-pattern?
In-Reply-To: <k4fdbv$mcg$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <506AF8C9.8060406@gmail.com>
	<k4fdbv$mcg$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAE+T62bMVeRy7RP6BLiJEo5ZbfT1uZKg4JAqxpbZsNgzg0KGYw@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> ABCs were added (fairly recently) in 3.0 for the reasons given in
> http://python.org/dev/peps/**pep-3119/<http://python.org/dev/peps/pep-3119/>
> It was expected that it would take awhile for them to see good, pythonic
> uses. We obviously did okay without them up to 2.7.
>

I read the PEP before posting just to make sure that I wasn't missing
anything. The gut feeling that I got after reading PEP 3119 was that it was
written by an academic relatively recently out of school (or in school
even), or coming from a strictly typed language who saw this as a hole in
the language.

Don't get me wrong. In theory (and coming from a C/C++ background), I fully
appreciate the need for such language features. However, in practice, it
seems to somewhat be contrary to the Zen of Python.

One thing that irks me a bit about abc's is that those coming from other
(strictly typed) language backgrounds (or school for that matter) will
think "hey, my prof/books told me that I should use an abstract base class
to define the contract for [x]". Next step, Google abstract base classes
and Python, they're presented with abcs, rather than how to look and think
about the problem differently using Pythonic idioms. This kind of thing
(imho) is a catalyst for many over-engineered Python packages and
misunderstanding of the core language.

In short, it seems like somewhat of an academic crutch to me.
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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Oct  3 12:36:09 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Oct 2012 16:36:09 GMT
Subject: Help me abstract this (and stop me from using eval)
References: <2d902087-7a52-46b8-83a5-f163a87ee88e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <506c6979$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 03 Oct 2012 09:23:03 -0700, Daniel Klein wrote:

> So ideally I would tell the script which language I'm currently
> importing and based on that it would write to the appropriate text
> fields. But I don't know how to abstract this:
> 
> tempmes.polish = row[1]
> 
> Well, I do. Like this:
> 
> eval("tempmes." + language + " = row[1]")

setattr(tempmes, language, row[1])



-- 
Steven


From bringa at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 12:40:12 2012
From: bringa at gmail.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 09:40:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help me abstract this (and stop me from using eval)
In-Reply-To: <506c6979$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <2d902087-7a52-46b8-83a5-f163a87ee88e@googlegroups.com>
	<506c6979$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <d8085b6a-3634-4e8e-854d-df2641362267@googlegroups.com>

Thank you Steven! That was PRECISELY what I was looking for.


From bringa at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 12:41:32 2012
From: bringa at gmail.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 09:41:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help me abstract this (and stop me from using eval)
In-Reply-To: <d8085b6a-3634-4e8e-854d-df2641362267@googlegroups.com>
References: <2d902087-7a52-46b8-83a5-f163a87ee88e@googlegroups.com>
	<506c6979$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<d8085b6a-3634-4e8e-854d-df2641362267@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ad9ac23c-13d2-487e-991d-b74e71dc6f21@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 5:40:12 PM UTC+1, Daniel Klein wrote:
> Thank you Steven! That was PRECISELY what I was looking for.

(And kwpolska!)


From jonathan.hayward at pobox.com  Wed Oct  3 13:24:51 2012
From: jonathan.hayward at pobox.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 12:24:51 -0500
Subject: Experimental Python-based shell
In-Reply-To: <CAL7_Mo8uJLS68jFP-9-GzvjYu3RdqTXtAz8W9YJc=sfi9HOCQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8646284b-df85-45fe-a793-56b081c6262c@googlegroups.com>
	<CAL7_Mo-dze8rm7=0URB9RTL_QHHWb+NovPu4KpDc21AH2ASNJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE6_B5QHBE_8jk7x4EkFdwTdEpUNGmSxP-+4QkE6wuC_KbxAQw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAL7_Mo8uJLS68jFP-9-GzvjYu3RdqTXtAz8W9YJc=sfi9HOCQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE6_B5T-GHaU7tL4tMBsYqEDao6T_5HhB3uhStw2e+f_eTEitA@mail.gmail.com>

I am open to suggestions and patches. I don't think the syntax strange,
though: it offers a clear and distinct way to differentiate Python and
shell commands, and shell commands can access Python variables when
specified. And it is a simple rule, without footnotes needed.

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 11:25 AM, Amirouche Boubekki <
amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> 2012/10/3 Jonathan Hayward <jonathan.hayward at pobox.com>
>
>> The chief benefit besides the searching, so far, is that you can use Py3k
>> mixed with shell commands as the scripting language--so script in Python
>> instead of bash.
>>
>> When using Python for scripting, Python lines are indented by an extra
>> tab (or four spaces) while shell-like commands are not indented. So:
>>
>> cjsh>     for index in range(10):
>> ----> echo %(index)d
>> ---->
>> 0
>> 1
>> 2
>> 3
>> 4
>> 5
>> 6
>> 7
>> 8
>> 9
>>
>> Echo could (and maybe should) be a built-in, but it isn't. The output is
>> os.system()'ed to bash, which echoes based on a command that includes the
>> value of a Python variable. The implementation is a bit crude, but it is
>> reasonably powerful.
>>
>> I have other things on the agenda, like making it able to run scripts and
>> doing fuzzy matching, but for now those are the main two attractions.
>>
>
> Is it possible to drop completly the bash syntax and use some python
> library (I saw it on github) that wraps bash commands with python functions
> or the other around making it possible to call python functions with a
> bash-like syntax. The syntax you are talking about seems strange.
>
> Regards,
>
> Amirouche
>



-- 
[image: Christos Jonathan Hayward] <http://jonathanscorner.com/>
Christos Jonathan Hayward, an Orthodox Christian author.

*Amazon <http://amazon.com/author/cjshayward>* ? Author
Bio<http://jonathanscorner.com/author/>
 ? *Email <christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com>* ?
Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/christos.jonathan.hayward>
 ? Google Plus <http://jonathanscorner.com/plus> ?
*Kindle<http://stornge.com/amazon>
* ? LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward> ?
*Professional<http://jonathanhayward.com/>
* ? Twitter <http://twitter.com/JonathansCorner> ?
*Web<http://jonathanscorner.com/>
* ? What's New? <http://jonathanscorner.com/>
I invite you to visit my "theology, literature, and other creative works"
site. *See one page of my website! <http://random.jonathanscorner.com/>*
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From hansmu at xs4all.nl  Wed Oct  3 13:55:44 2012
From: hansmu at xs4all.nl (Hans Mulder)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 19:55:44 +0200
Subject: Can somebody give me an advice about what to learn?
In-Reply-To: <roy-C7A655.18142930092012@news.panix.com>
References: <15f76508-437a-4d18-ac9b-16174ef172e8@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1672.1349011558.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-A05EF0.10233530092012@news.panix.com>
	<mailman.1675.1349015755.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-0C9D23.11011030092012@news.panix.com>
	<mailman.1677.1349019431.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-C7A655.18142930092012@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <506c7c20$0$6908$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 1/10/12 00:14:29, Roy Smith wrote:
> In article <mailman.1677.1349019431.27098.python-list at python.org>,
>  Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> you can't, for instance, retain a "socket connection object" across 
>> that sort of reload.
> 
> Yeah, that's a problem.  There's nothing fundamental about a TCP 
> connection endpoint which precludes it being serialized and passed 
> around.  The amount of state involved is pretty small.  Unless I've 
> forgotten something, 2 IP addresses, 2 port numbers, a few bits worth of 
> TCP protocol state, and, for open connections, 2 sequence numbers.  
> Maybe a couple of timers, but I don't think they're strictly necessary.  
> The problem is, most of that state is private to the kernel.

You're looking at the wrong abstraction level.  A socket connection
object is a thin wrapper around a file descriptor.  Most posix platforms
allow you to pass file descriptors to other processes running on the
same box.  Thus, most posix platforms *do* allow you to pass socket
connection objects around, though you won't win prizes for portability.

> On the other hand, you could do what "screen" does, and spawn a process 
> per connection to hold the connection open :-)

That won't work for the sort of application we're discussing, because
it creates too many processes.  A pool of processes, each handling
many connections, might work though.

-- HansM


From ramdevtech.netinc at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 14:26:32 2012
From: ramdevtech.netinc at gmail.com (ram dev)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 11:26:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need Data Architect/Technical Business Analyst For 6months at San
	Rafael, CA
Message-ID: <d0f37afd-1464-460e-8d40-860168efc1ef@googlegroups.com>

Good Day,

urgent Requirement : San Rafael, CA 6 months 

As a member of the Market Intelligence team, the Data Architect/Technical Business Analyst will be tasked
with assessing current state business process and corresponding data flows, understanding Marketing business
objectives, and identifying gaps in process, systems, and data that prevent execution against those objectives. This
will require understanding the broader internal data integration landscape to adequately determine synergies/
overlap and call out integration areas pertinent to Marketing that are insufficiently addressed by current systems
and in-flight projects.

Principal Duties and Responsibilities:
? Develop clear understanding of company?s integrated Marketing objectives/KPIs
? Leverage IT and Marketing resources to understand related process/data flows
? Develop and execute ETL procedures to integrate required sources (where currently feasible)
? Perform data/system/project gap analysis, documenting issues within the context of Marketing objectives
? Work closely with/inform business owners and project teams to ensure that documented gaps are addressed

Requirements:
? 5+ years SQL experience (SQL Server, Oracle) experience
? 5+ years ETL (SSIS, DTS, Informatica) experience
? High proficiency in data/systems analysis and integration
? Understanding of data models, data quality
? Proven ability to work within a highly-matrixed, global organization
? Excellent documentation and organizational skills
? Excellent communication skills, both written and verbal, and interpersonal skills

Desired Knowledge/Skills:
? Siebel CRM data model experience strongly preferred
? Business systems analysis./process engineering experience strongly preferred
? SFDC data model experience a plus
? Understanding of Clients Customer, Product, Contract, and Entitlement data/structures a plus





Thanks,
============================
Ram Dev
Recruiter
Tech-Net Inc.
Tel: 916-458-4390 Ext 102
Email: ram at tech-netinc.com 


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Oct  3 14:26:50 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Oct 2012 18:26:50 GMT
Subject: Emulating C++ namespaces with ChainMap and metaclass trickery
Message-ID: <506c836a$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

C++ namespaces are useful for encapsulating related objects within a 
single file, subdividing the global namespace without using classes. 
Python has modules, but they come in separate files.

Using Python 3.3's ChainMap type, and some metaclass trickery, I abuse 
the class keyword to (almost) emulate C++ namespaces:

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/578279/




-- 
Steven


From feliphil at gmx.net  Wed Oct  3 14:31:08 2012
From: feliphil at gmx.net (Wolfgang Keller)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 20:31:08 +0200
Subject: Can somebody give me an advice about what to learn?
References: <15f76508-437a-4d18-ac9b-16174ef172e8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20121003203108.50406660f9e7843c7e2e99a7@gmx.net>

> I'm really new to Usenet/Newsgroups, but... I'd like to learn some
> new programming language, because I learnt a bit of Perl though its
> OOP is ugly. So, after searching a bit, I found Python and Ruby, and
> both of they are cute. So, assuming you'll say me "learn python", why
> should I learn it over Ruby?

The point why Ruby was started (perceived deficit of object-orientation)
has been remedied since Python 2.2.

However, Ruby has reproduced quite a few of those well-known problems of
other languages that Python deliberately avoids (such as e.g. deficit of
orthogonality) and that make reading and understanding code difficult,
besides introducing sources for potential bugs.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang


From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 15:08:03 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 20:08:03 +0100
Subject: Combinations of lists
In-Reply-To: <506C4B23.6020809@gmail.com>
References: <506C4B23.6020809@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qWg--ghJ9cAuA6FhcW6c5nLSoAa-ZY5KjYETev9wF9Xew@mail.gmail.com>

On 3 October 2012 15:26, Steen Lysgaard <boxeakasteen at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am looking for a clever way to compute all combinations of two lists.
> Look at this example:
>
> h = ['A','A','B','B']
> m = ['a','b']
>
> the resulting combinations should be of the same length as h and each
> element in m can be used twice. The sought after result using h and m from
> above is:
>
> [['aA', 'aA', 'bB', 'bB'],
>  ['aA', 'aB', 'bA', 'bB'],
>  ['aB', 'aB', 'bA', 'bA']]
>
> (the order of the results does not matter i.e. ['aA', 'aA', 'bB', 'bB']
> and ['aA', 'bB', 'aA', 'bB'] are considered the same)
>
> This is achieved by the code below, this however needs to go through all
> possible combinations (faculty of len(h)) and rule out duplicates as they
> occur and this is too much if for example len(h) is 16.
>
> Can anyone guide me to a better solution?


What lengths can the two lists be?

Is len(h) === 2*len(m), or it it just this time?

Depending on your answer this could be easy or hard ;)
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From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 15:20:40 2012
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 20:20:40 +0100
Subject: Combinations of lists
In-Reply-To: <506C4B23.6020809@gmail.com>
References: <506C4B23.6020809@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxSOkSEsMVR=3Yh8CMx+qDFd=hd=wK6U8sW96WKXpqk5AA@mail.gmail.com>

On 3 October 2012 15:26, Steen Lysgaard <boxeakasteen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am looking for a clever way to compute all combinations of two lists. Look
> at this example:
>
> h = ['A','A','B','B']
> m = ['a','b']
>
> the resulting combinations should be of the same length as h and each
> element in m can be used twice. The sought after result using h and m from
> above is:
>
> [['aA', 'aA', 'bB', 'bB'],
>  ['aA', 'aB', 'bA', 'bB'],
>  ['aB', 'aB', 'bA', 'bA']]
>
> (the order of the results does not matter i.e. ['aA', 'aA', 'bB', 'bB'] and
> ['aA', 'bB', 'aA', 'bB'] are considered the same)
>
> This is achieved by the code below, this however needs to go through all
> possible combinations (faculty of len(h)) and rule out duplicates as they
> occur and this is too much if for example len(h) is 16.

I'm assuming that len(m) is always 2. Then if len(m) is 16 each
element of h can be used 8 times. If this is not as you intended you
will need to clarify how this problem generalises to other cases.

The elements that go with the 'b's are implicitly determined once you
have chosen the elements that go with the 'a's. The problem then is
solved if you choose the elements that go with the 'a's. If we need to
choose say k elements to go with the 'a's the basic problem becomes:
"enumerate over all multisets of size k that are subsets of the
multiset h."

'''
def submultisets(multiset, subsetsize, stack=None):
    # Enter recursion
    if stack is None:
        multiset = dict((c, multiset.count(c)) for c in set(multiset))
        stack = []

    c = next(iter(multiset))

    # End recursion
    if len(multiset) == 1:
        missing = subsetsize - len(stack)
        if multiset[c] >= missing:
            yield stack + missing  * [c]
        return

    # Continue recursion
    count = multiset.pop(c)
    for n in range(count + 1):
        stack.extend(n * c)
        for result in submultisets(multiset, subsetsize, stack):
            yield result
        del stack[-n:]
    multiset[c] = count

def uniquecombinations(h, m):
    for ha in submultisets(h, len(h)//2):
        hb = list(h)
        for c in ha:
            hb.remove(c)
        yield [m[0] + a for a in ha] + [m[1] + b for b in hb]

h = ['A', 'A', 'B', 'B']
m = ['a', 'b']

for x in uniquecombinations(h, m):
    print(x)
'''

Output:
['aB', 'aB', 'bA', 'bA']
['aA', 'aB', 'bA', 'bB']
['aA', 'aA', 'bB', 'bB']


Oscar


From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 15:54:45 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 20:54:45 +0100
Subject: Combinations of lists
In-Reply-To: <CAHVvXxSOkSEsMVR=3Yh8CMx+qDFd=hd=wK6U8sW96WKXpqk5AA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <506C4B23.6020809@gmail.com>
	<CAHVvXxSOkSEsMVR=3Yh8CMx+qDFd=hd=wK6U8sW96WKXpqk5AA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qUy8e-Micsi_B3X7+8Z4Co-4xi1E6ovnfwwXf8j4n9S8g@mail.gmail.com>

On 3 October 2012 20:20, Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 3 October 2012 15:26, Steen Lysgaard <boxeakasteen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am looking for a clever way to compute all combinations of two lists.
> Look
> > at this example:
> >
> > h = ['A','A','B','B']
> > m = ['a','b']
> >
> > the resulting combinations should be of the same length as h and each
> > element in m can be used twice. The sought after result using h and m
> from
> > above is:
> >
> > [['aA', 'aA', 'bB', 'bB'],
> >  ['aA', 'aB', 'bA', 'bB'],
> >  ['aB', 'aB', 'bA', 'bA']]
> >
> > (the order of the results does not matter i.e. ['aA', 'aA', 'bB', 'bB']
> and
> > ['aA', 'bB', 'aA', 'bB'] are considered the same)
> >
> > This is achieved by the code below, this however needs to go through all
> > possible combinations (faculty of len(h)) and rule out duplicates as they
> > occur and this is too much if for example len(h) is 16.
>
> I'm assuming that len(m) is always 2. Then if len(m) is 16 each
> element of h can be used 8 times. If this is not as you intended you
> will need to clarify how this problem generalises to other cases.
>

His code only works when len(m) is half of len(h), so this may not be the
right assumption.


> The elements that go with the 'b's are implicitly determined once you
> have chosen the elements that go with the 'a's. The problem then is
> solved if you choose the elements that go with the 'a's. If we need to
> choose say k elements to go with the 'a's the basic problem becomes:
> "enumerate over all multisets of size k that are subsets of the
> multiset h."
>
> '''
> def submultisets(multiset, subsetsize, stack=None):
>     # Enter recursion
>     if stack is None:
>         multiset = dict((c, multiset.count(c)) for c in set(multiset))
>         stack = []
>
>     c = next(iter(multiset))
>
>     # End recursion
>     if len(multiset) == 1:
>         missing = subsetsize - len(stack)
>         if multiset[c] >= missing:
>             yield stack + missing  * [c]
>         return
>
>     # Continue recursion
>     count = multiset.pop(c)
>     for n in range(count + 1):
>         stack.extend(n * c)
>         for result in submultisets(multiset, subsetsize, stack):
>             yield result
>         del stack[-n:]
>     multiset[c] = count
>
> def uniquecombinations(h, m):
>     for ha in submultisets(h, len(h)//2):
>         hb = list(h)
>         for c in ha:
>             hb.remove(c)
>         yield [m[0] + a for a in ha] + [m[1] + b for b in hb]
>
> h = ['A', 'A', 'B', 'B']
> m = ['a', 'b']
>
> for x in uniquecombinations(h, m):
>     print(x)
> '''
>
> Output:
> ['aB', 'aB', 'bA', 'bA']
> ['aA', 'aB', 'bA', 'bB']
> ['aA', 'aA', 'bB', 'bB']
>
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Oct  3 16:14:39 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:14:39 -0400
Subject: unit testing class hierarchies
In-Reply-To: <CAHVvXxQN1B0iZHVSQGh0++f=G_g=bpi0a+QZYznrcjaVSQwUzA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v53rj9-5kd.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<mailman.1725.1349186875.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<irirj9-sme.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<mailman.1748.1349217065.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506b92f3$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAHVvXxQN1B0iZHVSQGh0++f=G_g=bpi0a+QZYznrcjaVSQwUzA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k4i6bm$mi9$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/3/2012 5:33 AM, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
> On 3 October 2012 02:20, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>>
>> But surely, regardless of where that functionality is defined, you still
>> need to test that both D1 and D2 exhibit the correct behaviour? Otherwise
>> D2 (say) may break that functionality and your tests won't notice.
>>
>> Given a class hierarchy like this:
>>
>> class AbstractBaseClass:
>>      spam = "spam"
>>
>> class D1(AbstractBaseClass): pass
>> class D2(D1): pass
>>
>>
>> I write tests like this:
>>
>> class TestD1CommonBehaviour(unittest.TestCase):
>>      cls = D1
>>      def testSpam(self):
>>           self.assertTrue(self.cls.spam == "spam")
>>      def testHam(self):
>>           self.assertFalse(hasattr(self.cls, 'ham'))
>>
>> class TestD2CommonBehaviour(TestD1CommonBehaviour):
>>      cls = D2
>
> That's an excellent idea. I wanted a convenient way to run the same
> tests on two classes in order to test both a pure python and a
> cython-accelerator module implementation of the same class.

Python itself has same issue with testing Python and C coded modules. It 
has the additional issue that the Python class by default import the C 
version, so additional work is needed to avoid that and actually test 
the python code.

For instance, heapq.test_heapq.py has

...
py_heapq = support.import_fresh_module('heapq', blocked=['_heapq'])
c_heapq = support.import_fresh_module('heapq', fresh=['_heapq'])
...
class TestHeap(TestCase):
     module = None
... <multiple test methods for functions module.xxx>

class TestHeapPython(TestHeap):
     module = py_heapq

@skipUnless(c_heapq, 'requires _heapq')
class TestHeapC(TestHeap):
     module = c_heapq
...
def test_main(verbose=None):
     test_classes = [TestModules, TestHeapPython, TestHeapC,

# TestHeap is omitted from the list and not run directly

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From boxeakasteen at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 16:15:05 2012
From: boxeakasteen at gmail.com (Steen Lysgaard)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 22:15:05 +0200
Subject: Combinations of lists
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qUy8e-Micsi_B3X7+8Z4Co-4xi1E6ovnfwwXf8j4n9S8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <506C4B23.6020809@gmail.com>
	<CAHVvXxSOkSEsMVR=3Yh8CMx+qDFd=hd=wK6U8sW96WKXpqk5AA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qUy8e-Micsi_B3X7+8Z4Co-4xi1E6ovnfwwXf8j4n9S8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAvjzF0KWVspZikM+xa_XXKOmsMq+mybPGo_5UfpAr=UKMHw0Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

thanks for your interest. Sorry for not being completely clear, yes
the length of m will always be half of the length of h.

/Steen

2012/10/3 Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com>:
> On 3 October 2012 20:20, Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 3 October 2012 15:26, Steen Lysgaard <boxeakasteen at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I am looking for a clever way to compute all combinations of two lists.
>> > Look
>> > at this example:
>> >
>> > h = ['A','A','B','B']
>> > m = ['a','b']
>> >
>> > the resulting combinations should be of the same length as h and each
>> > element in m can be used twice. The sought after result using h and m
>> > from
>> > above is:
>> >
>> > [['aA', 'aA', 'bB', 'bB'],
>> >  ['aA', 'aB', 'bA', 'bB'],
>> >  ['aB', 'aB', 'bA', 'bA']]
>> >
>> > (the order of the results does not matter i.e. ['aA', 'aA', 'bB', 'bB']
>> > and
>> > ['aA', 'bB', 'aA', 'bB'] are considered the same)
>> >
>> > This is achieved by the code below, this however needs to go through all
>> > possible combinations (faculty of len(h)) and rule out duplicates as
>> > they
>> > occur and this is too much if for example len(h) is 16.
>>
>> I'm assuming that len(m) is always 2. Then if len(m) is 16 each
>> element of h can be used 8 times. If this is not as you intended you
>> will need to clarify how this problem generalises to other cases.
>
>
> His code only works when len(m) is half of len(h), so this may not be the
> right assumption.
>
>>
>> The elements that go with the 'b's are implicitly determined once you
>> have chosen the elements that go with the 'a's. The problem then is
>> solved if you choose the elements that go with the 'a's. If we need to
>> choose say k elements to go with the 'a's the basic problem becomes:
>> "enumerate over all multisets of size k that are subsets of the
>> multiset h."
>>
>> '''
>> def submultisets(multiset, subsetsize, stack=None):
>>     # Enter recursion
>>     if stack is None:
>>         multiset = dict((c, multiset.count(c)) for c in set(multiset))
>>         stack = []
>>
>>     c = next(iter(multiset))
>>
>>     # End recursion
>>     if len(multiset) == 1:
>>         missing = subsetsize - len(stack)
>>         if multiset[c] >= missing:
>>             yield stack + missing  * [c]
>>         return
>>
>>     # Continue recursion
>>     count = multiset.pop(c)
>>     for n in range(count + 1):
>>         stack.extend(n * c)
>>         for result in submultisets(multiset, subsetsize, stack):
>>             yield result
>>         del stack[-n:]
>>     multiset[c] = count
>>
>> def uniquecombinations(h, m):
>>     for ha in submultisets(h, len(h)//2):
>>         hb = list(h)
>>         for c in ha:
>>             hb.remove(c)
>>         yield [m[0] + a for a in ha] + [m[1] + b for b in hb]
>>
>> h = ['A', 'A', 'B', 'B']
>> m = ['a', 'b']
>>
>> for x in uniquecombinations(h, m):
>>     print(x)
>> '''
>>
>> Output:
>> ['aB', 'aB', 'bA', 'bA']
>> ['aA', 'aB', 'bA', 'bB']
>> ['aA', 'aA', 'bB', 'bB']


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Oct  3 16:22:39 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:22:39 -0400
Subject: Experimental Python-based shell
In-Reply-To: <CAE6_B5T-GHaU7tL4tMBsYqEDao6T_5HhB3uhStw2e+f_eTEitA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8646284b-df85-45fe-a793-56b081c6262c@googlegroups.com>
	<CAL7_Mo-dze8rm7=0URB9RTL_QHHWb+NovPu4KpDc21AH2ASNJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE6_B5QHBE_8jk7x4EkFdwTdEpUNGmSxP-+4QkE6wuC_KbxAQw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAL7_Mo8uJLS68jFP-9-GzvjYu3RdqTXtAz8W9YJc=sfi9HOCQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE6_B5T-GHaU7tL4tMBsYqEDao6T_5HhB3uhStw2e+f_eTEitA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k4i6qm$mi9$2@ger.gmane.org>

Indexing Python code is ugly. I suggest prefixing non-Python with $.

On 10/3/2012 1:24 PM, Jonathan Hayward wrote:
> I am open to suggestions and patches. I don't think the syntax strange,
> though: it offers a clear and distinct way to differentiate Python and
> shell commands, and shell commands can access Python variables when
> specified. And it is a simple rule, without footnotes needed.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 16:29:11 2012
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 21:29:11 +0100
Subject: Combinations of lists
In-Reply-To: <CAAvjzF0KWVspZikM+xa_XXKOmsMq+mybPGo_5UfpAr=UKMHw0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <506C4B23.6020809@gmail.com>
	<CAHVvXxSOkSEsMVR=3Yh8CMx+qDFd=hd=wK6U8sW96WKXpqk5AA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qUy8e-Micsi_B3X7+8Z4Co-4xi1E6ovnfwwXf8j4n9S8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAvjzF0KWVspZikM+xa_XXKOmsMq+mybPGo_5UfpAr=UKMHw0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxS2cFrEC4z1Ov-9jxEMS8R6dbNEvoMFFFLfp4MAV-uNXA@mail.gmail.com>

Oscar wrote:
>>> def uniquecombinations(h, m):
>>>     for ha in submultisets(h, len(h)//2):
>>>         hb = list(h)
>>>         for c in ha:
>>>             hb.remove(c)
>>>         yield [m[0] + a for a in ha] + [m[1] + b for b in hb]
>>>
>>> h = ['A', 'A', 'B', 'B']
>>> m = ['a', 'b']
>>>
>>> for x in uniquecombinations(h, m):
>>>     print(x)
>>> '''
>>>
>>> Output:
>>> ['aB', 'aB', 'bA', 'bA']
>>> ['aA', 'aB', 'bA', 'bB']
>>> ['aA', 'aA', 'bB', 'bB']

On 3 October 2012 21:15, Steen Lysgaard <boxeakasteen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> thanks for your interest. Sorry for not being completely clear, yes
> the length of m will always be half of the length of h.
>
> /Steen

Then you can make the uniquecombinations function recursive. First
find the elements that go with 'a' then from the remaining elements
find those that go with 'b', then 'c' and so on.

Oscar


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Wed Oct  3 16:41:35 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 13:41:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Combinations of lists
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1773.1349296154.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <506C4B23.6020809@gmail.com>
	<CAHVvXxSOkSEsMVR=3Yh8CMx+qDFd=hd=wK6U8sW96WKXpqk5AA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qUy8e-Micsi_B3X7+8Z4Co-4xi1E6ovnfwwXf8j4n9S8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAvjzF0KWVspZikM+xa_XXKOmsMq+mybPGo_5UfpAr=UKMHw0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1773.1349296154.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <580dd38a-1fff-4c6d-b874-8f9cbcc195b4@googlegroups.com>

Oscar Benjamin? 2012?10?4????UTC+8??4?29?51????
> Oscar wrote:
> 
> >>> def uniquecombinations(h, m):
> 
> >>>     for ha in submultisets(h, len(h)//2):
> 
> >>>         hb = list(h)
> 
> >>>         for c in ha:
> 
> >>>             hb.remove(c)
> 
> >>>         yield [m[0] + a for a in ha] + [m[1] + b for b in hb]
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>> h = ['A', 'A', 'B', 'B']
> 
> >>> m = ['a', 'b']
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>> for x in uniquecombinations(h, m):
> 
> >>>     print(x)
> 
> >>> '''
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>> Output:
> 
> >>> ['aB', 'aB', 'bA', 'bA']
> 
> >>> ['aA', 'aB', 'bA', 'bB']
> 
> >>> ['aA', 'aA', 'bB', 'bB']
> 
> 
> 
> On 3 October 2012 21:15, Steen Lysgaard <boxeakasteen at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> 
> >
> 
> > thanks for your interest. Sorry for not being completely clear, yes
> 
> > the length of m will always be half of the length of h.
> 
> >
> 
> > /Steen
> 
> 
> 
> Then you can make the uniquecombinations function recursive. First
> 
> find the elements that go with 'a' then from the remaining elements
> 
> find those that go with 'b', then 'c' and so on.
> 
> 
> 
> Oscar

Lets simplify the problem as follows:

A set of m symbols [0, 1,2,3...m-1] and each symbol can occur
a pecified number of times [(0, k(0)), (1, k(1)), ....(m-1, k(m-1)].rom a list to form a list of (i, k(i)) where  k(i) are  all positive integers.

For example [ (0,3), (1,2), (2, 1), (3, 2)], this is easy to generate 
valid numbers in base m numbers of sum(k(i)) digits.



in the final string.


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Wed Oct  3 16:41:35 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 13:41:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Combinations of lists
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1773.1349296154.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <506C4B23.6020809@gmail.com>
	<CAHVvXxSOkSEsMVR=3Yh8CMx+qDFd=hd=wK6U8sW96WKXpqk5AA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qUy8e-Micsi_B3X7+8Z4Co-4xi1E6ovnfwwXf8j4n9S8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAvjzF0KWVspZikM+xa_XXKOmsMq+mybPGo_5UfpAr=UKMHw0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1773.1349296154.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <580dd38a-1fff-4c6d-b874-8f9cbcc195b4@googlegroups.com>

Oscar Benjamin? 2012?10?4????UTC+8??4?29?51????
> Oscar wrote:
> 
> >>> def uniquecombinations(h, m):
> 
> >>>     for ha in submultisets(h, len(h)//2):
> 
> >>>         hb = list(h)
> 
> >>>         for c in ha:
> 
> >>>             hb.remove(c)
> 
> >>>         yield [m[0] + a for a in ha] + [m[1] + b for b in hb]
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>> h = ['A', 'A', 'B', 'B']
> 
> >>> m = ['a', 'b']
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>> for x in uniquecombinations(h, m):
> 
> >>>     print(x)
> 
> >>> '''
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>> Output:
> 
> >>> ['aB', 'aB', 'bA', 'bA']
> 
> >>> ['aA', 'aB', 'bA', 'bB']
> 
> >>> ['aA', 'aA', 'bB', 'bB']
> 
> 
> 
> On 3 October 2012 21:15, Steen Lysgaard <boxeakasteen at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> 
> >
> 
> > thanks for your interest. Sorry for not being completely clear, yes
> 
> > the length of m will always be half of the length of h.
> 
> >
> 
> > /Steen
> 
> 
> 
> Then you can make the uniquecombinations function recursive. First
> 
> find the elements that go with 'a' then from the remaining elements
> 
> find those that go with 'b', then 'c' and so on.
> 
> 
> 
> Oscar

Lets simplify the problem as follows:

A set of m symbols [0, 1,2,3...m-1] and each symbol can occur
a pecified number of times [(0, k(0)), (1, k(1)), ....(m-1, k(m-1)].rom a list to form a list of (i, k(i)) where  k(i) are  all positive integers.

For example [ (0,3), (1,2), (2, 1), (3, 2)], this is easy to generate 
valid numbers in base m numbers of sum(k(i)) digits.



in the final string.


From dreamingforward at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 16:50:08 2012
From: dreamingforward at gmail.com (Mark Adam)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 15:50:08 -0500
Subject: Emulating C++ namespaces with ChainMap and metaclass trickery
In-Reply-To: <506c836a$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <506c836a$0$29982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAMjeLr-S+-v-s-_uFvf5fAP3RabA12XM=XacxjBsRZ5YuBF_iA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Steven D'Aprano <
steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:

> C++ namespaces are useful for encapsulating related objects within a
> single file, subdividing the global namespace without using classes.
> Python has modules, but they come in separate files.
>
> Using Python 3.3's ChainMap type, and some metaclass trickery, I abuse
> the class keyword to (almost) emulate C++ namespaces:
>

Very interesting.  I like the idea of continuing the namespace meme.

My idea of using the builtins (in the prior list thread of "namespaces and
modules"), is that if we overhaul the builtins, a unified data model could
emerge to incorporate whatever ideas one may have for namespaces (i.e.
"enclosures with a name").

My idea was to introduce the compound data type (using a ":" colon to
separate two sides), whereby one associates a (*hashable*) "name"  with an
object ("meals":{"breakfast","lunch","dinner"}) .  This has the extra
advantage of killing two warts in Python with one stone:  {} now is the
empty set literal like people are taught, and a set of compounds makes a
dictionary (dict now has set operations available), something which, in
theory, should simply CPython implementation AND the python environment/API.

"expose name" put the dictionary (or whatever type is decided for the rhs)
into the builtin/global namespace.

I have further thoughts, but that's all I have at the moment....

markj
gothenburg, nebraska
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From pd at google-groups-2012.dobrogost.net  Wed Oct  3 17:13:10 2012
From: pd at google-groups-2012.dobrogost.net (Piotr Dobrogost)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 14:13:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why is pylaucher in Python 3.3 being installed in Windows folder?
Message-ID: <6aa17d70-b4a4-44e4-aef3-46596768979f@c20g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>

Why is pylauncher in Python 3.3 being installed in Windows folder and
not in Program Files folder? Installing into Windows folder was maybe
acceptable 10 years ago but not now...


From tyler at tysdomain.com  Wed Oct  3 17:20:43 2012
From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 15:20:43 -0600
Subject: design question:game skill system
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidmgwdWgefVz04A63OXpntO7gmTz7T+hsXROYiy1C0W5zQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <506B47DB.9030401@tysdomain.com>
	<CALwzidmgwdWgefVz04A63OXpntO7gmTz7T+hsXROYiy1C0W5zQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <506CAC2B.9070801@tysdomain.com>

I just wanted to say thanks to all the people that provided input, both 
aonand off list. It gave me a good direction to head in. Thanks again.
On 10/2/2012 2:34 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:00 PM, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler at tysdomain.com> wrote:
>> Hello all:
>> I'm looking at a skill/perk system, where the player builds up his char by
>> using perk points to add abilities.
>> Each perk is under a category, and generally costs go up as you increase the
>> perk.
>> So I'm trying to figure something out; first, I'd really like the cost
>> calculation and all of that to be dynamic, so that I don't have to write a
>> calculateCost per object. I'd also like to be able to specify dependencies
>> and say a level, as well as other factors before a player can obtain a perk
>> and have them self documenting. The idea is that a player could do something
>> like:
>> data perk extended health
>> and it would tell them they require health at 50 before they can purchase
>> extended health, as well as the cost, the increase per level and the total
>> overall cost.
> What are the cost calculations based on?  If there are specific
> formulas then you would need to store them somehow, possibly just as a
> function to be called or string to be evaled, but if the security of
> the perk database is of concern then you could engineer a more
> sandboxed representation.  For dependencies, you can keep them in a
> container.  An extended health perk might look something like:
>
> cost_formula = "5 * level ** 2"
> dependencies = {HEALTH: 50, PLAYER_LEVEL: 15}
> benefits = {HEALTH: "7 * level"}
>
> where HEALTH and PLAYER_LEVEL are just some arbitrary known constants.
>   Your core perks library would then be responsible for looking this
> information up, running the formulas, and performing whatever
> calculations on it are needed.
>
>> Finally, I'm curious how to store and calculate these. I thought about using
>> a uid per perk, then storing something like: {uid:level} on the player, but
>> means that I have to lookup the name somehow still in the main perk
>> database, then use that uid to check if the player has it. Are there better
>> ways of storing skills?
> When you say uids, you mean UUIDs, right?  I'm not sure what advantage
> there is in using abstracted unique identifiers for these.  Assuming
> you have full control over what perks are added, you can ensure there
> will be no name clashes, so why not just use the name or a name-based
> tag to uniquely identify each perk?  Regardless of how you identify
> them, though, your code is at some point going to have to go to the
> database to look them up, so I would suggest you just go ahead and
> write that code, and then you can add some caching later if it turns
> out to be needed.
>
>> I'm also thinking about calculation; currently the
>> CalculateMaxHp method would have to add up all the possible perks for
>> health, then add stats and all that. That could get really rough on
>> performance if it's called often; would something like a cache work, where
>> you have something like: {attribute:dirty}? So if I call CalculateHealth, it
>> checks for the dirty flag, and if it doesn't exist just returns the previous
>> max HP, but if the dirty flag is set, it recalculates? Then anything
>> modifying health (level gains, perks, stat increases/etc) would just set the
>> dirty flag and call calculate?
> Sounds reasonable.  I wouldn't use a separate flag attribute, though.
> When max HP becomes dirty, clear the cached value, and use the absence
> of a cached value to inform your code that it needs to recalculate.


-- 
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.



From bsj at abzinc.com  Wed Oct  3 18:30:24 2012
From: bsj at abzinc.com (Benjamin Jessup)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 18:30:24 -0400
Subject: fastest data structure for retrieving objects identified by (x,y)
	tuple?
Message-ID: <506CBC80.2090505@abzinc.com>

I have a group of objects identified by unique (x,y) pairs and I want to 
find out an object's "neighbors" in a matrix of size 2400 x 2400.
        #############
        #obj#   #   #
        #############
        #   #   #obj#      3 x 3 Example
        #############
        #   #   #   #
        #############
There is either a neighbor, or a null value. I always know the (x,y) 
pair to check the neighbors of, so is doing,
 >> obj = grid[x][y] #lists, doesn't scale with num of objects
or,
 >> obj = grid.get((x,y),None) #dictionary, scales with num of objects
the fastest? I can't seem to find a conclusion by testing each alone, 
then in the full environment. Is it that, depending on the number of 
objects, each has an advantage?

I know the fastest way to retrieve them would be to have them store 
pointers to their neighbors, then use those for retrieval. When large 
numbers of objects are changing their (x,y) pairs, rebuilding the 
pointers is too slow.


From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 18:35:02 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 23:35:02 +0100
Subject: Combinations of lists
In-Reply-To: <CAAvjzF0KWVspZikM+xa_XXKOmsMq+mybPGo_5UfpAr=UKMHw0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <506C4B23.6020809@gmail.com>
	<CAHVvXxSOkSEsMVR=3Yh8CMx+qDFd=hd=wK6U8sW96WKXpqk5AA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qUy8e-Micsi_B3X7+8Z4Co-4xi1E6ovnfwwXf8j4n9S8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAvjzF0KWVspZikM+xa_XXKOmsMq+mybPGo_5UfpAr=UKMHw0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qU1T42YFcE5VSPDTOyXud3anwPSptDvOF9MHxoR5H3ftA@mail.gmail.com>

On 3 October 2012 21:15, Steen Lysgaard <boxeakasteen at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> thanks for your interest. Sorry for not being completely clear, yes
> the length of m will always be half of the length of h.
>

(Please don't top post <http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/T/top-post.html>)

I have a solution to this, then.
It's not short *or* fast, but it's a lot faster than yours.

But first let me explain the most obvious optimization to your version of
the code:

combs = set()
>
> for a in permutations(range(len(h)),len(h)):
>     comb = []
>     for i in range(len(h)):
>         comb.append(c[i][a[i]])
>     comb.sort()
>
>     frzn = tuple(comb)
>     if frzn not in combs:
>         combs.add(frzn)


 What I have done here is make your "combs" a set. This helps because you
are searching inside it and that is an O(N) operation... for lists.
A set can do the same in O(1). Simplez.

first  = list("AABBCCDDEE")
second = list("abcde")
import itertools
#
# Generator, so ignoring case convention
class force_unique_combinations:
 def __init__(self, lst, n):
self.cache = set()
self.internal_iter = itertools.combinations(lst, n)
 def __iter__(self):
return self
def __next__(self):
 while True:
nxt = next(self.internal_iter)
if not nxt in self.cache:
 self.cache.add(nxt)
return nxt
def combine(first, second):
sletter = second[0]
 first_combinations = force_unique_combinations(first, 2)
if len(second) == 1:
for combination in first_combinations:
 yield [sletter+combination[0], sletter+combination[1]]
else:
for combination in first_combinations:
 first_ = first[:]
first_.remove(combination[0])
first_.remove(combination[1])
 prefix = [sletter+combination[0], sletter+combination[1]]
for inner in combine(first_, second[1:]):
 yield prefix + inner


This is quite naive, because I don't know how to properly implement
force_unique_combinations, but it runs. I hope this is right. If you need
significantly more speed your best chance is probably Cython or C, although
I don't doubt 10x more speed may well be possible from within Python.


*Also, 88888 Dihedral is a bot, or at least pretending like crazy to be one.
*
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From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 18:47:39 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 23:47:39 +0100
Subject: fastest data structure for retrieving objects identified by (x,
	y) tuple?
In-Reply-To: <506CBC80.2090505@abzinc.com>
References: <506CBC80.2090505@abzinc.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qVxynnjFb+ahXT=4J-A7vq7yGtSQRK1-jUzqEkCLE_tYw@mail.gmail.com>

On 3 October 2012 23:30, Benjamin Jessup <bsj at abzinc.com> wrote:

> I have a group of objects identified by unique (x,y) pairs and I want to
> find out an object's "neighbors" in a matrix of size 2400 x 2400.
>        #############
>        #obj#   #   #
>        #############
>        #   #   #obj#      3 x 3 Example
>        #############
>        #   #   #   #
>        #############
> There is either a neighbor, or a null value. I always know the (x,y) pair
> to check the neighbors of, so is doing,
> >> obj = grid[x][y] #lists, doesn't scale with num of objects
> or,
> >> obj = grid.get((x,y),None) #dictionary, scales with num of objects
> the fastest? I can't seem to find a conclusion by testing each alone, then
> in the full environment. Is it that, depending on the number of objects,
> each has an advantage?
>
> I know the fastest way to retrieve them would be to have them store
> pointers to their neighbors, then use those for retrieval. When large
> numbers of objects are changing their (x,y) pairs, rebuilding the pointers
> is too slow


You really are asking the wrong question.

If most of the data is None, then a sparse matrix is best. Otherwise, lists
make the most sense.
*However, *what you really want is... a matrix. Look for a sparse matrix
type (
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1053928/python-numpy-very-large-matrices)
if you need sparse, and otherwise Numpy's matrix should do fine.

The thing is this:
"I can't seem to find a conclusion by testing each alone, then in the full
environment. Is it that, depending on the number of objects, each has an
advantage?"

If you can't tell, don't bother. Dictionaries will have a memory advantage
with sparse matrices, lists in the other cases. That's the important part,
as look-up is fast for both*. If you need faster than these builtins, use
Numpy or SciPy.

If you really need optimization help, profile and ask the *right* question
to this list.

* To actually answer the question:
They both have O(1) look-up time, although dictionaries have a theoretical *
worst* case of O(N). Being simpler, it's faster to index a list. However,
you're doing that twice, so it's probably around even.
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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Oct  3 21:58:16 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Oct 2012 01:58:16 GMT
Subject: fastest data structure for retrieving objects identified by (x,y)
	tuple?
References: <mailman.1777.1349303447.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <506ced38$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 03 Oct 2012 18:30:24 -0400, Benjamin Jessup wrote:

> I have a group of objects identified by unique (x,y) pairs and I want to
> find out an object's "neighbors" in a matrix of size 2400 x 2400.
[...]
> There is either a neighbor, or a null value. I always know the (x,y)
> pair to check the neighbors of, so is doing,
>  >> obj = grid[x][y] #lists, doesn't scale with num of objects
> or,
>  >> obj = grid.get((x,y),None) #dictionary, scales with num of objects
> the fastest? I can't seem to find a conclusion by testing each alone,
> then in the full environment. Is it that, depending on the number of
> objects, each has an advantage?

Almost certainly not. Since you don't show how you test each, I have no 
idea why you can't find a conclusion.

Let's start off with the question you don't ask: which uses less memory? 
The answer is, the dict solution by far. Here is a test:

# populate a random matrix using both dict and list
adict = {}
alist = [[None]*2400 for i in range(2400)]
from random import randrange
for i in range(1000):
    x = randrange(2400)
    y = randrange(2400)
    adict[(x, y)] = "something"
    alist[x][y] = "something"

import sys
print(sys.getsizeof(adict))
print(sys.getsizeof(alist) + sum(sys.getsizeof(L) for L in alist))


The actual sizes printed will depend on how sparse the matrices are, but 
for the same above (approximately half full), using Python 2.7, the 
figures I get are:

adict: 24712
alist: 23127324


Now let's test the speed:

# randomly select matrix coordinates to look-up
test_coords = []
for i in range(1000):
    x = randrange(2400)
    y = randrange(2400)
    test_coords.append((x, y))

# build some test code
from timeit import Timer
setup = "from __main__ import adict, alist, test_coords"
t1 = Timer("for p in test_coords: obj = adict.get(p)", setup)
t2 = Timer("for p in test_coords: obj = alist[p[0]][p[1]]", setup)

# run the test code
print(min(t1.repeat(number=10000, repeat=7)))
print(min(t2.repeat(number=10000, repeat=7)))


Again, on my system using Python 2.7, I get:
3.13823986053
2.97539305687

which shows that the two are very close, but the list solution is about 
6% faster. So in this situation, a list of lists uses about 100 times 
more memory than a dict, but look-ups are about 6% faster.

I would be very surprised if the timing results depended on the number of 
objects in the matrices.

In case you are not familiar with timeit, let me explain what I have done:

* I pre-select 1000 random coordinates.
* I write some test code inside a Timer object that look up each of 
  those coordinates, plus some setup code.
* timeit runs the setup code once.
* Then it runs my test code 10000 times as a single trial, timing
  it as accurately as possible.
* It does seven trials, and I report the best of the seven.

The time printed is measured in seconds. In this case, I get 3 seconds 
per trial, or 3e-7 seconds = 0.3 microseconds per lookup.


> I know the fastest way to retrieve them would be to have them store
> pointers to their neighbors, then use those for retrieval.

How do you know that?

No offence, but if you can't even work out whether lookups in a dict or a 
list are faster, I can't imagine why you think you can intuit what the 
fastest way to retrieve the nearest neighbours would be.



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Oct  3 22:04:17 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Oct 2012 02:04:17 GMT
Subject: Why is pylaucher in Python 3.3 being installed in Windows folder?
References: <6aa17d70-b4a4-44e4-aef3-46596768979f@c20g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <506ceea1$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 03 Oct 2012 14:13:10 -0700, Piotr Dobrogost wrote:

> Why is pylauncher in Python 3.3 being installed in Windows folder and
> not in Program Files folder? Installing into Windows folder was maybe
> acceptable 10 years ago but not now...

Read the PEP:

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0397/



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Oct  3 22:25:01 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Oct 2012 02:25:01 GMT
Subject: fastest data structure for retrieving objects identified by (x,y)
	tuple?
References: <mailman.1777.1349303447.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506ced38$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <506cf37c$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 01:58:16 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> adict: 24712
> alist: 23127324
[...]
> So in this situation, a list of lists uses about 100 times
> more memory than a dict, but look-ups are about 6% faster.

Correction: about 1000 times more memory. Sorry for the typo.



-- 
Steven


From contropinion at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 23:01:17 2012
From: contropinion at gmail.com (contro opinion)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 23:01:17 -0400
Subject: + in regular expression
Message-ID: <CA+YdQ_4qK+UGjxpuzjsg3rVQfcQVLPgPB1SqP6Y+REa=OB8ZYQ@mail.gmail.com>

>>> str="          gg"
>>> x1=re.match("\s+",str)
>>> x1
<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0xb7354db0>
>>> x2=re.match("\s{6}",str)
>>> x2
<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0xb7337f38>
>>> x3=re.match("\s{6}+",str)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/re.py", line 137, in match
    return _compile(pattern, flags).match(string)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/re.py", line 245, in _compile
    raise error, v # invalid expression
sre_constants.error: multiple repeat
>>>

why the  "\s{6}+"  is not a regular pattern?
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From tyler at tysdomain.com  Wed Oct  3 23:11:29 2012
From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 21:11:29 -0600
Subject: final question: logging to stdout and updating files
Message-ID: <506CFE61.2020302@tysdomain.com>

pHello all:
I've seen frameworks like django reload files when it detects that 
they've been changed; how hard would it be to make my engine reload 
files that it detects were changed? I'm also curious how hard it would 
be to build in some error recovery. For example right now when an 
exception occurs, the player is sometimes just left hanging. It's a lot 
harder with Python for me, because I don't get the compile-time errors 
that I would with c++ for example to know that I did something wrong; 
while that's not always useful/and by far it doesn't catch everything, 
it does help. I'm familiar with things like pychecker, but it seems to 
be reporting a lot of issues that aren't issues. For example, I have a 
world module which is the core of the engine; it handles players, as 
well as keeps tracks of all rooms that are loaded in the game and that. 
Because player and world would have circular imports, I just pass the 
world object into player functions like logon/create. Pychecker tells me 
that the world parameter (which is a local var at that point) shadows 
the world variable in world; world is a singleton, so when you import 
world it just has a world = World() at the bottom of the module.

also: I have the following code:
     logging.basicConfig(filename=path.join("logs", "mud.log"), 
level=logging.DEBUG)
     logger = logging.getLogger(__name__)
     logger.addHandler(logging.StreamHandler())
I like it displaying to stderr since usually when I'm doing this I'm in 
screen bouncing back and forth between the output and the tt++ session, 
but right now I can't get a couple of things; I'm not sure how to set it 
to log and all other messages to stderr as I did for the file, and I'd 
like to use a rotating log handler so that it'll rotate when the files 
are say above 16 KB or something. Is it possible to do something like 
this; perhaps make it compress the file before it writes to disk, or 
call a command to do so, so that it wouldn't hang the entire mud while 
it compresses?
Thanks, and sorry again for all the questions.

-- 
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 23:17:19 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 21:17:19 -0600
Subject: + in regular expression
In-Reply-To: <CA+YdQ_4qK+UGjxpuzjsg3rVQfcQVLPgPB1SqP6Y+REa=OB8ZYQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YdQ_4qK+UGjxpuzjsg3rVQfcQVLPgPB1SqP6Y+REa=OB8ZYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnH2T5vsYT=nMvBmO4V6fmK+aMfHpxQDWrwArJ6aKtVew@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 9:01 PM, contro opinion <contropinion at gmail.com> wrote:
> why the  "\s{6}+"  is not a regular pattern?


Use a group: "(?:\s{6})+"


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 23:21:52 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 21:21:52 -0600
Subject: Why is pylaucher in Python 3.3 being installed in Windows folder?
In-Reply-To: <506ceea1$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <6aa17d70-b4a4-44e4-aef3-46596768979f@c20g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<506ceea1$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidn22x+n+XeD+Y3o-0RetukhML8R9sV6peDWnkT=rqOEAw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Oct 2012 14:13:10 -0700, Piotr Dobrogost wrote:
>
>> Why is pylauncher in Python 3.3 being installed in Windows folder and
>> not in Program Files folder? Installing into Windows folder was maybe
>> acceptable 10 years ago but not now...
>
> Read the PEP:
>
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0397/

The PEP explains why it's in the Windows folder as opposed to the
System32 folder, but not why either of those locations should be
preferable to Program Files.


From k.sahithi2862 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 00:18:32 2012
From: k.sahithi2862 at gmail.com (SAHITHI)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 21:18:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: HOT TEMPTING PHOTOS & VIDEOS
Message-ID: <05e0955e-25e0-4d2f-8166-76a9c1f542e6@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>

REGINA NEW ACTRESS HOT PHOTOS
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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Oct  4 00:30:14 2012
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 21:30:14 -0700
Subject: Why is pylaucher in Python 3.3 being installed in Windows folder?
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidn22x+n+XeD+Y3o-0RetukhML8R9sV6peDWnkT=rqOEAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6aa17d70-b4a4-44e4-aef3-46596768979f@c20g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<506ceea1$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzidn22x+n+XeD+Y3o-0RetukhML8R9sV6peDWnkT=rqOEAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRTGTjZNjdtzfn1eFsrM-UZ1eT-Ues5Dsq3M03P6R6t29g@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> On Wed, 03 Oct 2012 14:13:10 -0700, Piotr Dobrogost wrote:
>>
>>> Why is pylauncher in Python 3.3 being installed in Windows folder and
>>> not in Program Files folder? Installing into Windows folder was maybe
>>> acceptable 10 years ago but not now...
>>
>> Read the PEP:
>>
>> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0397/
>
> The PEP explains why it's in the Windows folder as opposed to the
> System32 folder, but not why either of those locations should be
> preferable to Program Files.

Presumably because Program Files isn't part of the $PATH.
http://superuser.com/questions/124239/what-is-the-default-path-environment-variable-setting-on-fresh-install-of-window
Contrast (from the PEP): "However, the Windows directory is always on the path."

Now, as for why the launcher must be on the $PATH?*shrugs*

Cheers,
Chris


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Oct  4 00:47:33 2012
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 21:47:33 -0700
Subject: Can somebody give me an advice about what to learn?
In-Reply-To: <20121003203108.50406660f9e7843c7e2e99a7@gmx.net>
References: <15f76508-437a-4d18-ac9b-16174ef172e8@googlegroups.com>
	<20121003203108.50406660f9e7843c7e2e99a7@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRT9h4=vDcRgUjrpZ9FdtMWhBxDQ5YARhVnSgAx6oPCAfw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Wolfgang Keller <feliphil at gmx.net> wrote:
>> I'm really new to Usenet/Newsgroups, but... I'd like to learn some
>> new programming language, because I learnt a bit of Perl though its
>> OOP is ugly. So, after searching a bit, I found Python and Ruby, and
>> both of they are cute. So, assuming you'll say me "learn python", why
>> should I learn it over Ruby?
>
> The point why Ruby was started (perceived deficit of object-orientation)
> has been remedied since Python 2.2.

Not completely. At the least, there's arguably still the issue of
len() and friends (vs. `.length` etc.), and also of `self` being
explicit.

Cheers,
Chris


From shambhu.rajak at calsoftinc.com  Thu Oct  4 01:13:57 2012
From: shambhu.rajak at calsoftinc.com (Shambhu Rajak)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:43:57 +0530
Subject: How to execute commands on a windows machine from a Linux machine
Message-ID: <008501cda1ef$0ec17eb0$2c447c10$@calsoftinc.com>

Here i have two questions,

1.       I want  to write a framework for Linux machine that can execute
commands on windows machine:

How to create a persistent shell between Linux and Windows machine.

2.       I require to extract windows disk management features, for eg:
Number of drives on that windows machine ,

volume size of the machine, to create a partition, all these storage stuffs.
I want to achieve all these features of windows machine, from linux.

-Shambhu

 

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From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 02:15:05 2012
From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 01:15:05 -0500
Subject: How to execute commands on a windows machine from a Linux machine
In-Reply-To: <008501cda1ef$0ec17eb0$2c447c10$@calsoftinc.com>
References: <008501cda1ef$0ec17eb0$2c447c10$@calsoftinc.com>
Message-ID: <506D2969.5080305@gmail.com>

On 2012.10.04 00:13, Shambhu Rajak wrote:
> Here i have two questions,
> 
> 1.       I want  to write a framework for Linux machine that can execute
> commands on windows machine:
> 
> How to create a persistent shell between Linux and Windows machine.
> 
> 2.       I require to extract windows disk management features, for eg:
> Number of drives on that windows machine ,
> 
> volume size of the machine, to create a partition, all these storage
> stuffs. I want to achieve all these features of windows machine, from linux.
If you must use Python, there are execnet and RPyC, which will allow you
to execute Python code remotely. Otherwise, there is Copssh, which has
an SSH server that runs on Windows.

http://codespeak.net/execnet/
http://rpyc.sourceforge.net/
https://www.itefix.no/i2/copssh
-- 
CPython 3.3.0 | Windows NT 6.1.7601.17835


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct  4 02:34:42 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Oct 2012 06:34:42 GMT
Subject: Can somebody give me an advice about what to learn?
References: <15f76508-437a-4d18-ac9b-16174ef172e8@googlegroups.com>
	<20121003203108.50406660f9e7843c7e2e99a7@gmx.net>
	<mailman.1785.1349326056.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <506d2e02$0$29972$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 03 Oct 2012 21:47:33 -0700, Chris Rebert wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Wolfgang Keller <feliphil at gmx.net>
> wrote:
>>> I'm really new to Usenet/Newsgroups, but... I'd like to learn some new
>>> programming language, because I learnt a bit of Perl though its OOP is
>>> ugly. So, after searching a bit, I found Python and Ruby, and both of
>>> they are cute. So, assuming you'll say me "learn python", why should I
>>> learn it over Ruby?
>>
>> The point why Ruby was started (perceived deficit of
>> object-orientation) has been remedied since Python 2.2.
> 
> Not completely. At the least, there's arguably still the issue of len()
> and friends (vs. `.length` etc.), and also of `self` being explicit.

I'm not entirely sure which "perceived deficit of object-orientation" is 
being talked about, or why anyone but OOP purists would consider that a 
problem.

Python is *more* object-oriented than Java, and I don't hear anyone 
complaining that Java isn't object-oriented. Everything[1] in Python is 
an object. *Everything*. Ints are objects. Strings are objects. Arrays 
are objects. There's no distinction between "boxed" and "unboxed" ints, 
like in Java or Haskell -- Python just has ints, and they're always 
objects.

As for len() and friends, that's a red-herring. Just because the syntax 
is written len(x) instead of x.len() doesn't make Python less object-
oriented. It's just syntax: "a + b" is no less OO than "a.plus(b)".

Somebody might not *like* the syntax "a + b", or "len(x)", but they 
should just say so, and not pretend that it isn't OO.

Likewise self. Explicit or implicit, how does that make a language less 
or more object-oriented? That's as foolish as saying that Python isn't 
object-oriented because you don't have to declare the type of variables:

x = (float)1.234

Again, there are arguments for and against explicit self, but "explicit 
self is not OO" is not a valid argument.

Being object-oriented has both costs and benefits. Java compromises on 
the idea of OOP for performance: native, non-object ints are faster than 
object ints. All these people complaining that Python isn't OO enough 
because you have to write "self" in method declarations, why aren't they 
complaining that Java isn't OO enough because ints are unboxed primitive 
types?



[1] Emphasis on the *thing* part. Control structures aren't things in 
that sense, they aren't values at all, they are actions that takes place 
during execution.


-- 
Steven


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 02:58:24 2012
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 07:58:24 +0100
Subject: fastest data structure for retrieving objects identified by (x,
	y) tuple?
In-Reply-To: <506ced38$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.1777.1349303447.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506ced38$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxSCgoMOpQBGTNSGu9mQO_AYE_yMKSNH0Hn8AcCUtMp4Qg@mail.gmail.com>

On Oct 4, 2012 3:02 AM, "Steven D&apos;Aprano" <
steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> # populate a random matrix using both dict and list
> adict = {}
> alist = [[None]*2400 for i in range(2400)]
> from random import randrange
> for i in range(1000):
>     x = randrange(2400)
>     y = randrange(2400)
>     adict[(x, y)] = "something"
>     alist[x][y] = "something"
>
> import sys
> print(sys.getsizeof(adict))
> print(sys.getsizeof(alist) + sum(sys.getsizeof(L) for L in alist))
>
>
> The actual sizes printed will depend on how sparse the matrices are, but
> for the same above (approximately half full), using Python 2.7, the
> figures I get are:
>
> adict: 24712
> alist: 23127324

I make it 0.02% full. If it was half full the dict might not have a memory
advantage.

Oscar
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From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 03:53:49 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 00:53:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: final question: logging to stdout and updating files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1781.1349320295.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1781.1349320295.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ee55d92e-71b0-4c2d-b459-b56fde7f90a5@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, 4 October 2012 08:41:35 UTC+5:30, Littlefield, Tyler  wrote:
> pHello all:
> 
> I've seen frameworks like django reload files when it detects that 
> 
> they've been changed; how hard would it be to make my engine reload 
> 
> files that it detects were changed? I'm also curious how hard it would 
> 
> be to build in some error recovery. For example right now when an 
> 
> exception occurs, the player is sometimes just left hanging. It's a lot 
> 
> harder with Python for me, because I don't get the compile-time errors 
> 
> that I would with c++ for example to know that I did something wrong; 
> 
> while that's not always useful/and by far it doesn't catch everything, 
> 
> it does help. I'm familiar with things like pychecker, but it seems to 
> 
> be reporting a lot of issues that aren't issues. For example, I have a 
> 
> world module which is the core of the engine; it handles players, as 
> 
> well as keeps tracks of all rooms that are loaded in the game and that. 
> 
> Because player and world would have circular imports, I just pass the 
> 
> world object into player functions like logon/create. Pychecker tells me 
> 
> that the world parameter (which is a local var at that point) shadows 
> 
> the world variable in world; world is a singleton, so when you import 
> 
> world it just has a world = World() at the bottom of the module.
> 
> 
> 
> also: I have the following code:
> 
>      logging.basicConfig(filename=path.join("logs", "mud.log"), 
> 
> level=logging.DEBUG)
> 
>      logger = logging.getLogger(__name__)
> 
>      logger.addHandler(logging.StreamHandler())
> 
> I like it displaying to stderr since usually when I'm doing this I'm in 
> 
> screen bouncing back and forth between the output and the tt++ session, 
> 
> but right now I can't get a couple of things; I'm not sure how to set it 
> 
> to log and all other messages to stderr as I did for the file, and I'd 
> 
> like to use a rotating log handler so that it'll rotate when the files 
> 
> are say above 16 KB or something. Is it possible to do something like 
> 
> this; perhaps make it compress the file before it writes to disk, or 
> 
> call a command to do so, so that it wouldn't hang the entire mud while 
> 
> it compresses?
> 
> Thanks, and sorry again for all the questions.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Take care,
> 
> Ty
> 
> http://tds-solutions.net
> 
> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
> 
> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
> 
> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.

I use pylint with NINJA IDE. NINJA IDE automatically shows common problems.


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 03:53:49 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 00:53:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: final question: logging to stdout and updating files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1781.1349320295.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1781.1349320295.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ee55d92e-71b0-4c2d-b459-b56fde7f90a5@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, 4 October 2012 08:41:35 UTC+5:30, Littlefield, Tyler  wrote:
> pHello all:
> 
> I've seen frameworks like django reload files when it detects that 
> 
> they've been changed; how hard would it be to make my engine reload 
> 
> files that it detects were changed? I'm also curious how hard it would 
> 
> be to build in some error recovery. For example right now when an 
> 
> exception occurs, the player is sometimes just left hanging. It's a lot 
> 
> harder with Python for me, because I don't get the compile-time errors 
> 
> that I would with c++ for example to know that I did something wrong; 
> 
> while that's not always useful/and by far it doesn't catch everything, 
> 
> it does help. I'm familiar with things like pychecker, but it seems to 
> 
> be reporting a lot of issues that aren't issues. For example, I have a 
> 
> world module which is the core of the engine; it handles players, as 
> 
> well as keeps tracks of all rooms that are loaded in the game and that. 
> 
> Because player and world would have circular imports, I just pass the 
> 
> world object into player functions like logon/create. Pychecker tells me 
> 
> that the world parameter (which is a local var at that point) shadows 
> 
> the world variable in world; world is a singleton, so when you import 
> 
> world it just has a world = World() at the bottom of the module.
> 
> 
> 
> also: I have the following code:
> 
>      logging.basicConfig(filename=path.join("logs", "mud.log"), 
> 
> level=logging.DEBUG)
> 
>      logger = logging.getLogger(__name__)
> 
>      logger.addHandler(logging.StreamHandler())
> 
> I like it displaying to stderr since usually when I'm doing this I'm in 
> 
> screen bouncing back and forth between the output and the tt++ session, 
> 
> but right now I can't get a couple of things; I'm not sure how to set it 
> 
> to log and all other messages to stderr as I did for the file, and I'd 
> 
> like to use a rotating log handler so that it'll rotate when the files 
> 
> are say above 16 KB or something. Is it possible to do something like 
> 
> this; perhaps make it compress the file before it writes to disk, or 
> 
> call a command to do so, so that it wouldn't hang the entire mud while 
> 
> it compresses?
> 
> Thanks, and sorry again for all the questions.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Take care,
> 
> Ty
> 
> http://tds-solutions.net
> 
> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
> 
> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
> 
> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.

I use pylint with NINJA IDE. NINJA IDE automatically shows common problems.


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 05:27:19 2012
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:27:19 +0100
Subject: final question: logging to stdout and updating files
In-Reply-To: <506CFE61.2020302@tysdomain.com>
References: <506CFE61.2020302@tysdomain.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxTbUO816v_cgsLTt-7OXoUU4DxbGLJvqvdNk0AFONCrZg@mail.gmail.com>

On 4 October 2012 04:11, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler at tysdomain.com> wrote:
> pHello all:
> I've seen frameworks like django reload files when it detects that they've
> been changed; how hard would it be to make my engine reload files that it
> detects were changed?

I tend to think that it's better to reload things explicitly. But if
you do want to monitor your files for changes you can use something
like this:
http://packages.python.org/watchdog/

>  I'm also curious how hard it would be to build in some
> error recovery. For example right now when an exception occurs, the player
> is sometimes just left hanging.

The general idea is to try and make state changes atomic. In other
words if an error occurs during an operation the previous state should
be kept or restored. A simple way to do this is to ensure that
anything that might generate an error is run before anything that
changes state e.g.:

    def change_my_values(self, intvalue_string, floatvalue_string):
        # Do all processing first (might generate errors)
        iv = int(intvalue_string)
        fv = float(floatvalue_string)
        # Then change state
        self.intvalue = iv
        self.floatvalue = fv

In this simple case, you can get the same effect with:

    def change_my_values(self, invalue_string, floatvalue_string):
        self.intvalue, self.floatvalue = in(intvalue_string),
float(floatvalue_string)

A more sophisticated way might use something like:

oldstate = current_state()
try:
    set_state(compute_new_state())
except:
    restore_state(oldstate)
    raise

Naturally this is quite tedious if you have to put try/except
everywhere, but this kind of exception handling can easily be factored
out into a context manager.

> It's a lot harder with Python for me,
> because I don't get the compile-time errors that I would with c++ for
> example to know that I did something wrong; while that's not always
> useful/and by far it doesn't catch everything, it does help.

Use unit tests.

>  I'm familiar
> with things like pychecker, but it seems to be reporting a lot of issues
> that aren't issues.

You may find those useful but they are not a substitute for unit tests.

> For example, I have a world module which is the core of
> the engine; it handles players, as well as keeps tracks of all rooms that
> are loaded in the game and that. Because player and world would have
> circular imports, I just pass the world object into player functions like
> logon/create. Pychecker tells me that the world parameter (which is a local
> var at that point) shadows the world variable in world; world is a
> singleton, so when you import world it just has a world = World() at the
> bottom of the module.

I would let the main script import World and create the world instance
rather than placing a global variable in the world module.

>
> also: I have the following code:
>     logging.basicConfig(filename=path.join("logs", "mud.log"),
> level=logging.DEBUG)
>     logger = logging.getLogger(__name__)
>     logger.addHandler(logging.StreamHandler())
> I like it displaying to stderr since usually when I'm doing this I'm in
> screen bouncing back and forth between the output and the tt++ session, but
> right now I can't get a couple of things; I'm not sure how to set it to log
> and all other messages to stderr as I did for the file, and I'd like to use
> a rotating log handler so that it'll rotate when the files are say above 16
> KB or something. Is it possible to do something like this; perhaps make it
> compress the file before it writes to disk, or call a command to do so, so
> that it wouldn't hang the entire mud while it compresses?

Use a standard system tool to manage your server logs. For example logrotate(8)
>From the manpage:
'''
logrotate is designed to ease administration of systems that generate
large numbers of log files. It allows automatic rotation, compression,
removal, and mailing of log files. Each log file may be handled daily,
weekly, monthly, or when it grows too large.
'''

Oscar


From ashishjain.ash at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 07:24:13 2012
From: ashishjain.ash at gmail.com (ashishjain.ash at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 04:24:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to print html in python the normal way
Message-ID: <4d096ff3-e25f-400e-89c6-47483aaacc0d@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I wrote a simple filter as:

@register.filter()
def html(value):
    return '<p>Check</p>'

when I use this filter in my template, it displays html as:

<p>Check</p>

I want to display as:

Check

am I missing something.

- Thanks for your help
Ashish


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 07:30:53 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 21:30:53 +1000
Subject: How to print html in python the normal way
In-Reply-To: <4d096ff3-e25f-400e-89c6-47483aaacc0d@googlegroups.com>
References: <4d096ff3-e25f-400e-89c6-47483aaacc0d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrUgkr3Bac_6253U-Gg42hqxa90TjpK-UqBKK-o-nU3Ew@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 9:24 PM,  <ashishjain.ash at gmail.com> wrote:
> am I missing something.

The first thing you're missing is more detail in your question. My
crystal ball tells me you're using some kind of web framework and
viewing this in your browser. And my second crystal ball suggests that
it's probably Django. But is this correct? Lots more detail, please!

ChrisA


From bsj at abzinc.com  Thu Oct  4 08:20:00 2012
From: bsj at abzinc.com (Benjamin Jessup)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 08:20:00 -0400
Subject: Python-list Digest, Vol 109, Issue 20
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6344.1349324402.27097.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6344.1349324402.27097.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <506D7EF0.8010001@abzinc.com>

On 10/4/2012 12:20 AM, python-list-request at python.org wrote:
> How do you know that?
>
> No offence, but if you can't even work out whether lookups in a dict or a
> list are faster, I can't imagine why you think you can intuit what the
> fastest way to retrieve the nearest neighbours would be.

Whats wrong with the test below?

# randomly select matrix coordinates to look-up
from random import randrange
test_coords = []
for i in range(1000):
     x = randrange(2400);  y = randrange(2400); test_coords.append((x, 
y))

# build objects
class Object():pass
obj1 = Object(); obj2 = Object(); obj1.up = obj2

# build some test code
from timeit import Timer
setup = "from __main__ import test_coords, obj1, obj2"
t = Timer("for p in test_coords: obj = obj1.up", setup)

# run the test code
print(min(t.repeat(number=10000, repeat=7)))
import platform
print(platform.python_version())

On my system, I get:
0.719622326348
2.7.1




From bsj at abzinc.com  Thu Oct  4 08:21:13 2012
From: bsj at abzinc.com (Benjamin Jessup)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 08:21:13 -0400
Subject: fastest data structure for retrieving objects identified by (x, y)
	tuple?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6344.1349324402.27097.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.6344.1349324402.27097.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <506D7F39.8060703@abzinc.com>

On 10/4/2012 12:20 AM, python-list-request at python.org wrote:
> How do you know that?
>
> No offence, but if you can't even work out whether lookups in a dict or a
> list are faster, I can't imagine why you think you can intuit what the
> fastest way to retrieve the nearest neighbours would be.

Whats wrong with the test below?

# randomly select matrix coordinates to look-up
from random import randrange
test_coords = []
for i in range(1000):
     x = randrange(2400);  y = randrange(2400); test_coords.append((x, y))

# build objects
class Object():pass
obj1 = Object(); obj2 = Object(); obj1.up = obj2

# build some test code
from timeit import Timer
setup = "from __main__ import test_coords, obj1, obj2"
t = Timer("for p in test_coords: obj = obj1.up", setup)

# run the test code
print(min(t.repeat(number=10000, repeat=7)))
import platform
print(platform.python_version())

On my system, I get:
0.719622326348
2.7.1




From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 09:11:56 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 06:11:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to print html in python the normal way
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1791.1349350257.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <4d096ff3-e25f-400e-89c6-47483aaacc0d@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1791.1349350257.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b198f16a-ff25-4a05-a680-d6adb07fdad9@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, 4 October 2012 17:00:57 UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico  wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 9:24 PM,  <ashishjain.ash at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > am I missing something.
> 
> 
> 
> The first thing you're missing is more detail in your question. My
> 
> crystal ball tells me you're using some kind of web framework and
> 
> viewing this in your browser. And my second crystal ball suggests that
> 
> it's probably Django. But is this correct? Lots more detail, please!
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisA

+1


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 09:11:56 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 06:11:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to print html in python the normal way
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1791.1349350257.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <4d096ff3-e25f-400e-89c6-47483aaacc0d@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1791.1349350257.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b198f16a-ff25-4a05-a680-d6adb07fdad9@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, 4 October 2012 17:00:57 UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico  wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 9:24 PM,  <ashishjain.ash at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > am I missing something.
> 
> 
> 
> The first thing you're missing is more detail in your question. My
> 
> crystal ball tells me you're using some kind of web framework and
> 
> viewing this in your browser. And my second crystal ball suggests that
> 
> it's probably Django. But is this correct? Lots more detail, please!
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisA

+1


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 09:19:33 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 06:19:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: design question:game skill system
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1757.1349254197.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <506B47DB.9030401@tysdomain.com>
	<mailman.1757.1349254197.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d4e3b605-640d-4212-b80c-ef8f9c10cc67@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, 3 October 2012 14:19:57 UTC+5:30, Jean-Michel Pichavant  wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> > Hello all:
> 
> > I'm looking at a skill/perk system, where the player builds up his
> 
> > char
> 
> > by using perk points to add abilities.
> 
> > Each perk is under a category, and generally costs go up as you
> 
> > increase
> 
> > the perk.
> 
> > So I'm trying to figure something out; first, I'd really like the
> 
> > cost
> 
> > calculation and all of that to be dynamic, so that I don't have to
> 
> > write
> 
> > a calculateCost per object. I'd also like to be able to specify
> 
> > dependencies and say a level, as well as other factors before a
> 
> > player
> 
> > can obtain a perk and have them self documenting. The idea is that a
> 
> > player could do something like:
> 
> > data perk extended health
> 
> > and it would tell them they require health at 50 before they can
> 
> > purchase extended health, as well as the cost, the increase per level
> 
> > and the total overall cost.
> 
> > Any ideas on how to set this up would be really appreciated.
> 
> > Finally, I'm curious how to store and calculate these. I thought
> 
> > about
> 
> > using a uid per perk, then storing something like: {uid:level} on the
> 
> > player, but means that I have to lookup the name somehow still in the
> 
> > main perk database, then use that uid to check if the player has it.
> 
> > Are
> 
> > there better ways of storing skills? I'm also thinking about
> 
> > calculation; currently the CalculateMaxHp method would have to add up
> 
> > all the possible perks for health, then add stats and all that. That
> 
> > could get really rough on performance if it's called often; would
> 
> > something like a cache work, where you have something like:
> 
> > {attribute:dirty}? So if I call CalculateHealth, it checks for the
> 
> > dirty
> 
> > flag, and if it doesn't exist just returns the previous max HP, but
> 
> > if
> 
> > the dirty flag is set, it recalculates? Then anything modifying
> 
> > health
> 
> > (level gains, perks, stat increases/etc) would just set the dirty
> 
> > flag
> 
> > and call calculate?
> 
> > Thoughts/ideas would be welcome.
> 
> > Thanks,
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> Again, do not think about performances before actually having an issue with them. What's the point to optimize something that doesn't need it ?
> 
> 
> 
> For your cache problem, google "python memoize decorator" for a bunch of decorators that will allow you to cache your data without any effort.
> 
> 
> 
> JM

True, but I always have an irresistible urge to optimize to every yoctosecond even if its absolutely useless to optimize.


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 09:19:33 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 06:19:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: design question:game skill system
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1757.1349254197.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <506B47DB.9030401@tysdomain.com>
	<mailman.1757.1349254197.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d4e3b605-640d-4212-b80c-ef8f9c10cc67@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, 3 October 2012 14:19:57 UTC+5:30, Jean-Michel Pichavant  wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> > Hello all:
> 
> > I'm looking at a skill/perk system, where the player builds up his
> 
> > char
> 
> > by using perk points to add abilities.
> 
> > Each perk is under a category, and generally costs go up as you
> 
> > increase
> 
> > the perk.
> 
> > So I'm trying to figure something out; first, I'd really like the
> 
> > cost
> 
> > calculation and all of that to be dynamic, so that I don't have to
> 
> > write
> 
> > a calculateCost per object. I'd also like to be able to specify
> 
> > dependencies and say a level, as well as other factors before a
> 
> > player
> 
> > can obtain a perk and have them self documenting. The idea is that a
> 
> > player could do something like:
> 
> > data perk extended health
> 
> > and it would tell them they require health at 50 before they can
> 
> > purchase extended health, as well as the cost, the increase per level
> 
> > and the total overall cost.
> 
> > Any ideas on how to set this up would be really appreciated.
> 
> > Finally, I'm curious how to store and calculate these. I thought
> 
> > about
> 
> > using a uid per perk, then storing something like: {uid:level} on the
> 
> > player, but means that I have to lookup the name somehow still in the
> 
> > main perk database, then use that uid to check if the player has it.
> 
> > Are
> 
> > there better ways of storing skills? I'm also thinking about
> 
> > calculation; currently the CalculateMaxHp method would have to add up
> 
> > all the possible perks for health, then add stats and all that. That
> 
> > could get really rough on performance if it's called often; would
> 
> > something like a cache work, where you have something like:
> 
> > {attribute:dirty}? So if I call CalculateHealth, it checks for the
> 
> > dirty
> 
> > flag, and if it doesn't exist just returns the previous max HP, but
> 
> > if
> 
> > the dirty flag is set, it recalculates? Then anything modifying
> 
> > health
> 
> > (level gains, perks, stat increases/etc) would just set the dirty
> 
> > flag
> 
> > and call calculate?
> 
> > Thoughts/ideas would be welcome.
> 
> > Thanks,
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> Again, do not think about performances before actually having an issue with them. What's the point to optimize something that doesn't need it ?
> 
> 
> 
> For your cache problem, google "python memoize decorator" for a bunch of decorators that will allow you to cache your data without any effort.
> 
> 
> 
> JM

True, but I always have an irresistible urge to optimize to every yoctosecond even if its absolutely useless to optimize.


From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 09:19:35 2012
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 09:19:35 -0400
Subject: How to print html in python the normal way
In-Reply-To: <b198f16a-ff25-4a05-a680-d6adb07fdad9@googlegroups.com>
References: <4d096ff3-e25f-400e-89c6-47483aaacc0d@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1791.1349350257.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<b198f16a-ff25-4a05-a680-d6adb07fdad9@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+wBHQxxxGoSXrpC8pSN5h7jP_fFPhAjVuK7t9qR42-PjQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 9:11 AM, Ramchandra Apte <maniandram01 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, 4 October 2012 17:00:57 UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico  wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 9:24 PM,  <ashishjain.ash at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > am I missing something.
>>
>>
You should look at the built in django tags, and learn about them
before writing your own

In this case, look here:
https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/templates/#filters


striptags

    Strips all [X]HTML tags. For example:

    {{ value|striptags }}

    If value is "<b>Joel</b> <button>is</button> a <span>slug</span>",
the output will be "Joel is a slug".

Again, these are just a few examples; see the built-in filter
reference for the complete list.



-- 
Joel Goldstick


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 09:34:28 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 06:34:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: final question: logging to stdout and updating files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1781.1349320295.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1781.1349320295.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c8abda54-a2cf-4fb4-b7ca-3828f29c6f29@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, 4 October 2012 08:41:35 UTC+5:30, Littlefield, Tyler  wrote:
> pHello all:
> 
> I've seen frameworks like django reload files when it detects that 
> 
> they've been changed; how hard would it be to make my engine reload 
> 
> files that it detects were changed? I'm also curious how hard it would 
> 
> be to build in some error recovery. For example right now when an 
> 
> exception occurs, the player is sometimes just left hanging. It's a lot 
> 
> harder with Python for me, because I don't get the compile-time errors 
> 
> that I would with c++ for example to know that I did something wrong; 
> 
> while that's not always useful/and by far it doesn't catch everything, 
> 
> it does help. I'm familiar with things like pychecker, but it seems to 
> 
> be reporting a lot of issues that aren't issues. For example, I have a 
> 
> world module which is the core of the engine; it handles players, as 
> 
> well as keeps tracks of all rooms that are loaded in the game and that. 
> 
> Because player and world would have circular imports, I just pass the 
> 
> world object into player functions like logon/create. Pychecker tells me 
> 
> that the world parameter (which is a local var at that point) shadows 
> 
> the world variable in world; world is a singleton, so when you import 
> 
> world it just has a world = World() at the bottom of the module.
> 
> 
> 
> also: I have the following code:
> 
>      logging.basicConfig(filename=path.join("logs", "mud.log"), 
> 
> level=logging.DEBUG)
> 
>      logger = logging.getLogger(__name__)
> 
>      logger.addHandler(logging.StreamHandler())
> 
> I like it displaying to stderr since usually when I'm doing this I'm in 
> 
> screen bouncing back and forth between the output and the tt++ session, 
> 
> but right now I can't get a couple of things; I'm not sure how to set it 
> 
> to log and all other messages to stderr as I did for the file, and I'd 
> 
> like to use a rotating log handler so that it'll rotate when the files 
> 
> are say above 16 KB or something. Is it possible to do something like 
> 
> this; perhaps make it compress the file before it writes to disk, or 
> 
> call a command to do so, so that it wouldn't hang the entire mud while 
> 
> it compresses?
> 
> Thanks, and sorry again for all the questions.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Take care,
> 
> Ty
> 
> http://tds-solutions.net
> 
> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
> 
> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
> 
> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.

Solution for the logging problem is to use to use logging.handlers.BaseRotatingHandler [0]
^0 http://docs.python.org/dev/library/logging.handlers.html#baserotatinghandler

"Optimize code always even if it causes bugs" - Ramchandra Apte, 2001-


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 09:34:28 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 06:34:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: final question: logging to stdout and updating files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1781.1349320295.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1781.1349320295.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c8abda54-a2cf-4fb4-b7ca-3828f29c6f29@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, 4 October 2012 08:41:35 UTC+5:30, Littlefield, Tyler  wrote:
> pHello all:
> 
> I've seen frameworks like django reload files when it detects that 
> 
> they've been changed; how hard would it be to make my engine reload 
> 
> files that it detects were changed? I'm also curious how hard it would 
> 
> be to build in some error recovery. For example right now when an 
> 
> exception occurs, the player is sometimes just left hanging. It's a lot 
> 
> harder with Python for me, because I don't get the compile-time errors 
> 
> that I would with c++ for example to know that I did something wrong; 
> 
> while that's not always useful/and by far it doesn't catch everything, 
> 
> it does help. I'm familiar with things like pychecker, but it seems to 
> 
> be reporting a lot of issues that aren't issues. For example, I have a 
> 
> world module which is the core of the engine; it handles players, as 
> 
> well as keeps tracks of all rooms that are loaded in the game and that. 
> 
> Because player and world would have circular imports, I just pass the 
> 
> world object into player functions like logon/create. Pychecker tells me 
> 
> that the world parameter (which is a local var at that point) shadows 
> 
> the world variable in world; world is a singleton, so when you import 
> 
> world it just has a world = World() at the bottom of the module.
> 
> 
> 
> also: I have the following code:
> 
>      logging.basicConfig(filename=path.join("logs", "mud.log"), 
> 
> level=logging.DEBUG)
> 
>      logger = logging.getLogger(__name__)
> 
>      logger.addHandler(logging.StreamHandler())
> 
> I like it displaying to stderr since usually when I'm doing this I'm in 
> 
> screen bouncing back and forth between the output and the tt++ session, 
> 
> but right now I can't get a couple of things; I'm not sure how to set it 
> 
> to log and all other messages to stderr as I did for the file, and I'd 
> 
> like to use a rotating log handler so that it'll rotate when the files 
> 
> are say above 16 KB or something. Is it possible to do something like 
> 
> this; perhaps make it compress the file before it writes to disk, or 
> 
> call a command to do so, so that it wouldn't hang the entire mud while 
> 
> it compresses?
> 
> Thanks, and sorry again for all the questions.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Take care,
> 
> Ty
> 
> http://tds-solutions.net
> 
> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
> 
> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
> 
> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.

Solution for the logging problem is to use to use logging.handlers.BaseRotatingHandler [0]
^0 http://docs.python.org/dev/library/logging.handlers.html#baserotatinghandler

"Optimize code always even if it causes bugs" - Ramchandra Apte, 2001-


From info at egenix.com  Thu Oct  4 09:41:20 2012
From: info at egenix.com (eGenix Team: M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 15:41:20 +0200
Subject: ANN: Python Meeting =?ISO-8859-1?Q?D=FCsseldorf_-_23=2E10=2E?=
	=?ISO-8859-1?Q?2012?=
Message-ID: <506D9200.9090902@egenix.com>

[This announcement is in German since it targets a local user group
 meeting in D?sseldorf, Germany]

________________________________________________________________________
ANK?NDIGUNG

                     Python Meeting D?sseldorf

                         http://pyddf.de/

       Ein Treffen von Python Enthusiasten und Interessierten
                    in ungezwungener Atmosph?re.

                  Dienstag, 23.10.2012, 18:00 Uhr
                        Clara Schumann Raum
                          DJH D?sseldorf


Diese Nachricht k?nnen Sie auch online lesen:
http://www.egenix.com/company/news/Python-Meeting-Duesseldorf-2012-10-23

________________________________________________________________________
EINLEITUNG

Das Python Meeting D?sseldorf (http://pyddf.de/) ist eine neue
lokale Veranstaltung in D?sseldorf, die sich an Python Begeisterte
in der Region wendet.

Wir starten bei den Treffen mit einer kurzen Einleitung und gehen
dann zu einer Reihe Kurzvortr?gen (Lightning Talks) ?ber, bei denen
die Anwesenden ?ber neue Projekte, interessante Probleme und
sonstige Aktivit?ten rund um Python berichten k?nnen.

Anschlie?end geht es in eine Gastst?tte, um die Gespr?che zu
vertiefen.

Einen guten ?berblick ?ber die Vortr?ge bietet unser YouTube-Kanal,
auf dem wir die Vortr?ge nach den Meetings ver?ffentlichen:

   http://www.youtube.com/pyddf/

Veranstaltet wird das Meeting von der eGenix.com GmbH, Langenfeld,
in Zusammenarbeit mit Clark Consulting & Research, D?sseldorf:

 * http://www.egenix.com/
 * http://www.clark-consulting.eu/

________________________________________________________________________
ORT

F?r das Python Meeting D?sseldorf haben wir den Clara Schumann
Raum in der modernen Jugendherberge D?sseldorf angemietet:

Jugendherberge D?sseldorf
D?sseldorfer Str. 1
40545 D?sseldorf
Telefon: +49 211 557310
http://www.duesseldorf.jugendherberge.de

Die Jugendherberge verf?gt ?ber eine kostenpflichtige Tiefgarage (EUR
2,50 pro Stunde, maximal EUR 10,00). Es ist aber auch m?glich per
Bus und Bahn anzureisen. Der Raum befindet sich im 1.OG links.

________________________________________________________________________
PROGRAMM

Das Python Meeting D?sseldorf nutzt eine Mischung aus Open Space
und Lightning Talks:

Die Treffen starten mit einer kurzen Einleitung. Danach geht es
weiter mit einer Lightning Talk Session, in der die Anwesenden
Kurzvortr?ge von f?nf Minuten halten k?nnen.

Hieraus ergeben sich dann meisten viele Ansatzpunkte f?r
Diskussionen, die dann den Rest der verf?gbaren Zeit in Anspruch
nehmen k?nnen.

F?r 19:45 Uhr haben wir in einem nahegelegenen Restaurant Pl?tze
reserviert, damit auch das leibliche Wohl nicht zu kurz kommt.

Lightning Talks k?nnen vorher angemeldet werden, oder auch
spontan w?hrend des Treffens eingebracht werden. Ein Beamer mit
XGA Aufl?sung steht zur Verf?gung. Folien bitte als PDF auf USB
Stick mitbringen.

Lightning Talk Anmeldung bitte formlos per EMail an info at pyddf.de

________________________________________________________________________
KOSTENBETEILIGUNG

Das Python Meeting D?sseldorf wird von Python Nutzern f?r Python
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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct  4 10:00:26 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Oct 2012 14:00:26 GMT
Subject: final question: logging to stdout and updating files
References: <mailman.1781.1349320295.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.1797.1349357671.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <506d967a$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 06:34:28 -0700, Ramchandra Apte wrote:

> "Optimize code always even if it causes bugs" - Ramchandra Apte, 2001-

Well, you've just added yourself into my list of people whose advice 
should always be ignored.

That is *terrible* advice. But if you insist on following it, you can 
optimize *any* Python program to this:

# === start code ===
pass  # this line is optional
# === end code ===


There you go. The most heavily optimized, fastest Python program in 
existence. Sure, it has a few bugs, but boy is it fast!!!


-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct  4 10:04:21 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Oct 2012 14:04:21 GMT
Subject: fastest data structure for retrieving objects identified by (x, y)
	tuple?
References: <mailman.6344.1349324402.27097.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.1793.1349353325.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <506d9765$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 08:21:13 -0400, Benjamin Jessup wrote:

> On 10/4/2012 12:20 AM, python-list-request at python.org wrote:
>> How do you know that?
>>
>> No offence, but if you can't even work out whether lookups in a dict or
>> a list are faster, I can't imagine why you think you can intuit what
>> the fastest way to retrieve the nearest neighbours would be.
> 
> Whats wrong with the test below?
[snip code]


I don't know. Is this a trick question? Is the answer, "nothing is wrong"?

It doesn't seem to be very useful code, but since I don't know what you 
think you are testing, I can't tell you whether you are doing it wrong or 
not.



-- 
Steven


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 10:27:34 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 00:27:34 +1000
Subject: final question: logging to stdout and updating files
In-Reply-To: <506d967a$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.1781.1349320295.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.1797.1349357671.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506d967a$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo4r77m8Rjdsj3PhqCF0fDuxH2XEkh=rzKr40XWNA3-8w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 12:00 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> That is *terrible* advice. But if you insist on following it, you can
> optimize *any* Python program to this:
>
> # === start code ===
> pass  # this line is optional
> # === end code ===
>
>
> There you go. The most heavily optimized, fastest Python program in
> existence. Sure, it has a few bugs, but boy is it fast!!!

Not many bugs though! I ran it in my Python 5.2.7 for GNU/Windows
256-bit (err, yeah, I borrowed Guido's time machine but had the silly
thing in reverse... oops) and it worked perfectly, except that
indentation has moved from "significant" to "mandatory". When I added
the necessary 5 space indent at the beginning, it correctly created
world peace, ensured that Australia won the next Test Match, and then
printed "Hello, world!\n" to stdout. Unfortunately, a bug in your "end
code" comment meant that the peace it created was by wiping out all
life, but that's pretty minor in the scheme of things.

Optimization really is that important, folks!

ChrisA
may need to schedule surgical detongueing of his cheek


From pd at google-groups-2012.dobrogost.net  Thu Oct  4 10:41:08 2012
From: pd at google-groups-2012.dobrogost.net (Piotr Dobrogost)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 07:41:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why is pylaucher in Python 3.3 being installed in Windows folder?
References: <6aa17d70-b4a4-44e4-aef3-46596768979f@c20g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<506ceea1$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzidn22x+n+XeD+Y3o-0RetukhML8R9sV6peDWnkT=rqOEAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1784.1349325016.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <61a80e13-ddeb-4d7e-9da3-1e7377f65a67@h16g2000vby.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 4, 6:30?am, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> Presumably because Program Files isn't part of the $PATH.http://superuser.com/questions/124239/what-is-the-default-path-enviro...
> Contrast (from the PEP): "However, the Windows directory is always on the path."

I guess that's the reason indeed.

> Now, as for why the launcher must be on the $PATH?*shrugs*

Now, the question is why not put pylauncher together with python.exe
now, when 3.3 has an option to add Python's folder to the PATH? In
case there are more than one Python installed this would mean changing
pylauncher when changing active Python (via PATH modification). Maybe
that's undesired? If so then installing to Program Files and adding
its folder to PATH the same way Python's folder is added would be much
better than installing into Windows folder.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct  4 10:52:43 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Oct 2012 14:52:43 GMT
Subject: final question: logging to stdout and updating files
References: <mailman.1781.1349320295.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <506da2bb$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 03 Oct 2012 21:11:29 -0600, Littlefield, Tyler wrote:

> I've seen frameworks like django reload files when it detects that
> they've been changed; how hard would it be to make my engine reload
> files that it detects were changed? 

Oh, about as hard as writing a program.

What sort of files? What does your engine do? How does it do it? Without 
knowing the answers to these questions, how can we possibly tell you how 
hard it will be to reload them?

Detecting changed files is easy. If you google for "python monitor 
directory" and similar terms, you will find a metric tonne of solutions.

Having your engine reload files is entirely up to you: it's your engine, 
it will be as trivial or as difficult as you make it be.


> I'm also curious how hard it would be to build in some error recovery. 

How long is a piece of string? Again, that depends on you. If you design 
your application with error recovery in mind, it could be trivial. If you 
don't, it could be impossible.


> For example right now when an
> exception occurs, the player is sometimes just left hanging. It's a lot
> harder with Python for me, because I don't get the compile-time errors
> that I would with c++ for example to know that I did something wrong;
> while that's not always useful/and by far it doesn't catch everything,
> it does help. 

Sure, compiler-time checks can sometimes be useful. But in general, they 
tend to only detect the most trivial errors, syntax errors (Python does 
that too) and type errors.

In Python, the usual answer is to concentrate on writing good unit tests. 
Good unit tests will test far more than the compiler ever could, and will 
pay for themselves a hundred times over.


> I'm familiar with things like pychecker, but it seems to
> be reporting a lot of issues that aren't issues.

Pychecker, like other linters, don't just report fatal errors. They may 
also report *suspicious code* which may indicate an error, poor 
techniques, unused code, bad naming conventions, or other examples of 
poor style. You should be able to turn off such warnings.


> For example, I have a
> world module which is the core of the engine; it handles players, as
> well as keeps tracks of all rooms that are loaded in the game and that.
> Because player and world would have circular imports

Right there is a terrible *code smell*.

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Wrong.html

Maybe you have a good reason for a circular import, but alarm bells are 
ringing. Rather than having:

# world.py
import player

# player.py
import world

which leads to all sorts of complications, it is usually better to have a 
single module import both world and player and then combine them as 
needed.


-- 
Steven


From boxeakasteen at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 11:12:38 2012
From: boxeakasteen at gmail.com (Steen Lysgaard)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 17:12:38 +0200
Subject: Combinations of lists
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qU1T42YFcE5VSPDTOyXud3anwPSptDvOF9MHxoR5H3ftA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <506C4B23.6020809@gmail.com>
	<CAHVvXxSOkSEsMVR=3Yh8CMx+qDFd=hd=wK6U8sW96WKXpqk5AA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qUy8e-Micsi_B3X7+8Z4Co-4xi1E6ovnfwwXf8j4n9S8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAvjzF0KWVspZikM+xa_XXKOmsMq+mybPGo_5UfpAr=UKMHw0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qU1T42YFcE5VSPDTOyXud3anwPSptDvOF9MHxoR5H3ftA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAvjzF3MgMCkXLEA4kREzfs36RhQcOoiH5F+jR1XgNtH8d-2Uw@mail.gmail.com>

2012/10/4 Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com>:
> On 3 October 2012 21:15, Steen Lysgaard <boxeakasteen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> thanks for your interest. Sorry for not being completely clear, yes
>> the length of m will always be half of the length of h.
>
>
> (Please don't top post)
>
> I have a solution to this, then.
> It's not short or fast, but it's a lot faster than yours.
>
> But first let me explain the most obvious optimization to your version of
> the code:
>
>> combs = set()
>>
>>
>> for a in permutations(range(len(h)),len(h)):
>>     comb = []
>>     for i in range(len(h)):
>>         comb.append(c[i][a[i]])
>>     comb.sort()
>>
>>     frzn = tuple(comb)
>>     if frzn not in combs:
>>         combs.add(frzn)
>
>
>  What I have done here is make your "combs" a set. This helps because you
> are searching inside it and that is an O(N) operation... for lists.
> A set can do the same in O(1). Simplez.
>
> first  = list("AABBCCDDEE")
> second = list("abcde")
> import itertools
> #
> # Generator, so ignoring case convention
> class force_unique_combinations:
> def __init__(self, lst, n):
> self.cache = set()
> self.internal_iter = itertools.combinations(lst, n)
> def __iter__(self):
> return self
> def __next__(self):
> while True:
> nxt = next(self.internal_iter)
> if not nxt in self.cache:
> self.cache.add(nxt)
> return nxt
> def combine(first, second):
> sletter = second[0]
> first_combinations = force_unique_combinations(first, 2)
> if len(second) == 1:
> for combination in first_combinations:
> yield [sletter+combination[0], sletter+combination[1]]
> else:
> for combination in first_combinations:
> first_ = first[:]
> first_.remove(combination[0])
> first_.remove(combination[1])
> prefix = [sletter+combination[0], sletter+combination[1]]
> for inner in combine(first_, second[1:]):
> yield prefix + inner
>
>
> This is quite naive, because I don't know how to properly implement
> force_unique_combinations, but it runs. I hope this is right. If you need
> significantly more speed your best chance is probably Cython or C, although
> I don't doubt 10x more speed may well be possible from within Python.
>
>
> Also, 88888 Dihedral is a bot, or at least pretending like crazy to be one.

Great, I've now got a solution much faster than what I could come up with.
Thanks to the both of you.
And a good spot on 88... I could not for my life understand what he
(it) had written.

/Steen


From pd at google-groups-2012.dobrogost.net  Thu Oct  4 11:32:01 2012
From: pd at google-groups-2012.dobrogost.net (Piotr Dobrogost)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 08:32:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why is pylaucher in Python 3.3 being installed in Windows folder?
References: <6aa17d70-b4a4-44e4-aef3-46596768979f@c20g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a4c6b81d-26aa-4f3c-b4e7-f2c6776100e7@j12g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

I raised this issue at http://bugs.python.org/issue16131


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 11:51:10 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 09:51:10 -0600
Subject: Why is pylaucher in Python 3.3 being installed in Windows folder?
In-Reply-To: <61a80e13-ddeb-4d7e-9da3-1e7377f65a67@h16g2000vby.googlegroups.com>
References: <6aa17d70-b4a4-44e4-aef3-46596768979f@c20g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<506ceea1$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzidn22x+n+XeD+Y3o-0RetukhML8R9sV6peDWnkT=rqOEAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1784.1349325016.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<61a80e13-ddeb-4d7e-9da3-1e7377f65a67@h16g2000vby.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=7TQYDC7+QC4rbWkXSbS_KvUzOqLDO9F+SdC5QEkG-Bw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 8:41 AM, Piotr Dobrogost
<pd at google-groups-2012.dobrogost.net> wrote:
> Now, the question is why not put pylauncher together with python.exe
> now, when 3.3 has an option to add Python's folder to the PATH? In
> case there are more than one Python installed this would mean changing
> pylauncher when changing active Python (via PATH modification). Maybe
> that's undesired? If so then installing to Program Files and adding
> its folder to PATH the same way Python's folder is added would be much
> better than installing into Windows folder.

It shouldn't go in the Python folder.  There can be more than one
active Python installation, but there should really be only one active
pylauncher installation.  They should also be kept separate for
uninstallation.  So the launcher should have its own separate Program
Files folder.

I don't see why it's so important that the location be on the path in
the first place, though.  As I understand it this tool is primarily
intended to support the .py and .pyw file associations, and those are
best looked up in the registry, not on the path.  The only reason I
can see for having it on the path is for when you want to explicitly
invoke it on the command line, and for that we can either add the
Program Files location to the path or just let the user deal with
setting the path, as many Windows programs do.

> I raised this issue at http://bugs.python.org/issue16131

Unfortunately, with Python 3.3 already released, I suspect that it's
probably too late to change this.


From amoebae at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 11:53:20 2012
From: amoebae at gmail.com (David Banks)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 08:53:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How can I hide my stack frames in a TestCase subclass?
Message-ID: <52b17563-966c-46bc-bd77-da29e944c909@googlegroups.com>

I want to add a custom assert method to a TestCase subclass.  I tried to
copy my implementation from the unittest module so that it would match
the behaviour of the regular TestCase as closely as possible.  (I would
prefer to just delegate to self.assertEqual() but this causes even more
backtrace noise, see below.)  The unittest module seems to automatically
hide some internal details of its implementation when reporting failed
assertions.

  import unittest

  class MyTestCase(unittest.TestCase):
      def assertLengthIsOne(self, sequence, msg=None):
          if len(sequence) != 1:
              msg = self._formatMessage(msg, "length is not one")
              raise self.failureException(msg)

  class TestFoo(MyTestCase):
      seq = (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

      def test_stock_unittest_assertion(self):
          self.assertEqual(len(self.seq), 1)

      def test_custom_assertion(self):
          self.assertLengthIsOne(self.seq)


  unittest.main()

The output of this is as such:

  amoe at vuurvlieg $ python unittest-demo.py
  FF
  ======================================================================
  FAIL: test_custom_assertion (__main__.TestFoo)
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "unittest-demo.py", line 16, in test_custom_assertion
      self.assertLengthIsOne(self.seq)
    File "unittest-demo.py", line 7, in assertLengthIsOne
      raise self.failureException(msg)
  AssertionError: length is not one

  ======================================================================
  FAIL: test_stock_unittest_assertion (__main__.TestFoo)
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "unittest-demo.py", line 13, in test_stock_unittest_assertion
      self.assertEqual(len(self.seq), 1)
  AssertionError: 5 != 1

  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ran 2 tests in 0.000s

  FAILED (failures=2)

Note that the custom assert method causes a stack trace with two frames,
one inside the method itself, whereas the stock unittest method only has
one frame, the relevant line in the user's code.  How can I apply this
frame-hiding behaviour to my own method?


From nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de  Thu Oct  4 12:11:28 2012
From: nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de (Thomas Rachel)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 18:11:28 +0200
Subject: fastest data structure for retrieving objects identified by (x, y)
	tuple?
In-Reply-To: <506ced38$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.1777.1349303447.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506ced38$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <k4kcfn$732$1@r03.glglgl.gl>

Am 04.10.2012 03:58 schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
> alist = [[None]*2400 for i in range(2400)]
> from random import randrange
> for i in range(1000):
>      x = randrange(2400)
>      y = randrange(2400)
>      adict[(x, y)] = "something"
>      alist[x][y] = "something"

> The actual sizes printed will depend on how sparse the matrices are, but
> for the same above (approximately half full),

I wouldn't consider 1000 of 5760000 "half full"...


Thomas


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 12:40:16 2012
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 17:40:16 +0100
Subject: Why is pylaucher in Python 3.3 being installed in Windows folder?
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid=7TQYDC7+QC4rbWkXSbS_KvUzOqLDO9F+SdC5QEkG-Bw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6aa17d70-b4a4-44e4-aef3-46596768979f@c20g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<506ceea1$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzidn22x+n+XeD+Y3o-0RetukhML8R9sV6peDWnkT=rqOEAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1784.1349325016.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<61a80e13-ddeb-4d7e-9da3-1e7377f65a67@h16g2000vby.googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzid=7TQYDC7+QC4rbWkXSbS_KvUzOqLDO9F+SdC5QEkG-Bw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxSoEjbaN0t-4h-opskxB-0eV-=Wuk1yvhcvHna=n-RDYg@mail.gmail.com>

On 4 October 2012 16:51, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 8:41 AM, Piotr Dobrogost
> <pd at google-groups-2012.dobrogost.net> wrote:
>> Now, the question is why not put pylauncher together with python.exe
>> now, when 3.3 has an option to add Python's folder to the PATH? In
>> case there are more than one Python installed this would mean changing
>> pylauncher when changing active Python (via PATH modification). Maybe
>> that's undesired? If so then installing to Program Files and adding
>> its folder to PATH the same way Python's folder is added would be much
>> better than installing into Windows folder.
>
> It shouldn't go in the Python folder.  There can be more than one
> active Python installation, but there should really be only one active
> pylauncher installation.  They should also be kept separate for
> uninstallation.  So the launcher should have its own separate Program
> Files folder.
>
> I don't see why it's so important that the location be on the path in
> the first place, though.  As I understand it this tool is primarily
> intended to support the .py and .pyw file associations, and those are
> best looked up in the registry, not on the path.  The only reason I
> can see for having it on the path is for when you want to explicitly
> invoke it on the command line, and for that we can either add the
> Program Files location to the path or just let the user deal with
> setting the path, as many Windows programs do.

Having them on PATH means that you can do:

    > py script.py

and the effect will be analogous to (in a unix shell):

    $ ./script.py

Of course the idea with the launcher is that you just do

    > script.py

The difference - on my machine - between explicitly using invoking py
and allowing the file association to do it is that the latter breaks
when redirecting stdin (this is an old bug in Windows):

Q:\>script.py < foo
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "Q:\script.py", line 5, in <module>
    for line in sys.stdin:
IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor

Q:\>py script.py < foo
LOTS OF STUFF


It would be good to be able to choose where to put the launchers.
Unless I missed something that wasn't an option in the installer. It
lets you choose the location of all the other files by choosing where
to put the Python folder. Also it's not as simple as just moving them
to where you want after install since they are associated with the
registry keys for running .py and .pyw files.

As it happens, since I don't have access to the WINDOWS folder on my
work machine, the installer did just put them into the Python33 folder
(which is fine with me).


Oscar


From feliphil at gmx.net  Thu Oct  4 13:45:56 2012
From: feliphil at gmx.net (Wolfgang Keller)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 19:45:56 +0200
Subject: Can somebody give me an advice about what to learn?
References: <15f76508-437a-4d18-ac9b-16174ef172e8@googlegroups.com>
	<20121003203108.50406660f9e7843c7e2e99a7@gmx.net>
	<mailman.1785.1349326056.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506d2e02$0$29972$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20121004194556.2d80e3f0c95a6fbdd52628ba@gmx.net>

> >> The point why Ruby was started (perceived deficit of
> >> object-orientation) has been remedied since Python 2.2.
> > 
> > Not completely. At the least, there's arguably still the issue of
> > len() and friends (vs. `.length` etc.), and also of `self` being
> > explicit.
> 
> I'm not entirely sure which "perceived deficit of object-orientation"
> is being talked about, or why anyone but OOP purists would consider
> that a problem.

Yukihiro Matsumoto did. I myself never perceived any lack of
object-orientation with Python, since I've learned programming with
Pascal anyway. >;-> 

I just wanted to point out that given the state of Python today, no one
would probably consider starting Ruby any more.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang


From animelovin at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 14:10:46 2012
From: animelovin at gmail.com (Etienne Robillard)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 14:10:46 -0400
Subject: notmm is dead!
Message-ID: <20121004141046.677dac1e8bf6dada0b6af6b3@gmail.com>

Dear list,

Due to lack of energy and resources i'm really sad to announce the removal of notmm from pypi and bitbucket. I deleted
also my account from bitbucket as it was not really useful for me. notmm will continue to be accessible from my master
site at http://gthc.org/dist/notmm until the server get down, as I cannot find money to pay for the hosting of notmm.org,
neither anyone to encourage the project so it can grow further.  

I have tried to develop a coherent extension for Django using the open source model but I'm afraid to have been
bitten by its failure to encourage a free market over one dictated by profit and the use of cheap tricks to compete unfairly
with perhaps too much openness. I always will also continue to love and use free softwares but sadly it seems asking for a little
fairness is too much asked to competitors dedicated in stealing and subverting my work for their own advantages...

I therefore refuse to continue any longer being mocked by competitors asking excessive prices for having a broken Internet dictated by
a few companies and decide the content I should be visiting. 

Shall you have anything you wish saying I'll be open to discuss further on this list. I wish also to thanks the supporters
of the project who have invested time and energy into my business and dedication to the notmm project. 

Best wishes,

Etienne 

-- 
Etienne Robillard
Green Tea Hackers Club
Fine Software Carpentry For The Rest Of Us!
http://gthc.org/
erob at gthcfoundation.org

"If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich." -John F. Kennedy


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Oct  4 15:03:03 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 12:03:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Anybody know what's up with Gmane?
Message-ID: <4509cf54-a71d-44cc-90a5-0abd7c6a80cd@googlegroups.com>

Good evening all,

I read some 20 Python mailing lists through Gmane using Thunderbird on Windows but nothing new has arrived for almost 24 hours, hence why I've reluctantly resorted to Google groups to try and find out what is going on.  Looking directly at http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general shows the last post was the Steven D'Aprano thread titled "Emulating C++ namespaces with ChainMap and metaclass trickery" on 3 Oct at 20:26.

I've tried flagging this up but obviously with no success.  Anyone any ideas on how to sort this out?

Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Thu Oct  4 15:20:00 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 12:20:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Combinations of lists
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1801.1349363561.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <506C4B23.6020809@gmail.com>
	<CAHVvXxSOkSEsMVR=3Yh8CMx+qDFd=hd=wK6U8sW96WKXpqk5AA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qUy8e-Micsi_B3X7+8Z4Co-4xi1E6ovnfwwXf8j4n9S8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAvjzF0KWVspZikM+xa_XXKOmsMq+mybPGo_5UfpAr=UKMHw0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qU1T42YFcE5VSPDTOyXud3anwPSptDvOF9MHxoR5H3ftA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1801.1349363561.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3c6e2683-6328-4225-9ef2-20bf21c3a846@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 4, 2012 11:12:41 PM UTC+8, Steen Lysgaard wrote:
> 2012/10/4 Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com>:
> 
> > On 3 October 2012 21:15, Steen Lysgaard <boxeakasteen at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Hi,
> 
> >>
> 
> >> thanks for your interest. Sorry for not being completely clear, yes
> 
> >> the length of m will always be half of the length of h.
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > (Please don't top post)
> 
> >
> 
> > I have a solution to this, then.
> 
> > It's not short or fast, but it's a lot faster than yours.
> 
> >
> 
> > But first let me explain the most obvious optimization to your version of
> 
> > the code:
> 
> >
> 
> >> combs = set()
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> for a in permutations(range(len(h)),len(h)):
> 
> >>     comb = []
> 
> >>     for i in range(len(h)):
> 
> >>         comb.append(c[i][a[i]])
> 
> >>     comb.sort()
> 
> >>
> 
> >>     frzn = tuple(comb)
> 
> >>     if frzn not in combs:
> 
> >>         combs.add(frzn)
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> >  What I have done here is make your "combs" a set. This helps because you
> 
> > are searching inside it and that is an O(N) operation... for lists.
> 
> > A set can do the same in O(1). Simplez.
> 
> >
> 
> > first  = list("AABBCCDDEE")
> 
> > second = list("abcde")
> 
> > import itertools
> 
> > #
> 
> > # Generator, so ignoring case convention
> 
> > class force_unique_combinations:
> 
> > def __init__(self, lst, n):
> 
> > self.cache = set()
> 
> > self.internal_iter = itertools.combinations(lst, n)
> 
> > def __iter__(self):
> 
> > return self
> 
> > def __next__(self):
> 
> > while True:
> 
> > nxt = next(self.internal_iter)
> 
> > if not nxt in self.cache:
> 
> > self.cache.add(nxt)
> 
> > return nxt
> 
> > def combine(first, second):
> 
> > sletter = second[0]
> 
> > first_combinations = force_unique_combinations(first, 2)
> 
> > if len(second) == 1:
> 
> > for combination in first_combinations:
> 
> > yield [sletter+combination[0], sletter+combination[1]]
> 
> > else:
> 
> > for combination in first_combinations:
> 
> > first_ = first[:]
> 
> > first_.remove(combination[0])
> 
> > first_.remove(combination[1])
> 
> > prefix = [sletter+combination[0], sletter+combination[1]]
> 
> > for inner in combine(first_, second[1:]):
> 
> > yield prefix + inner
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > This is quite naive, because I don't know how to properly implement
> 
> > force_unique_combinations, but it runs. I hope this is right. If you need
> 
> > significantly more speed your best chance is probably Cython or C, although
> 
> > I don't doubt 10x more speed may well be possible from within Python.
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > Also, 88888 Dihedral is a bot, or at least pretending like crazy to be one.
> 
> 
> 
> Great, I've now got a solution much faster than what I could come up with.
> 
> Thanks to the both of you.
> 
> And a good spot on 88... I could not for my life understand what he
> 
> (it) had written.
> 
> 
> 
> /Steen

If an unique order is defined, then it is trivial to solve this problem
without any recursions. 




From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Thu Oct  4 15:20:00 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 12:20:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Combinations of lists
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1801.1349363561.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <506C4B23.6020809@gmail.com>
	<CAHVvXxSOkSEsMVR=3Yh8CMx+qDFd=hd=wK6U8sW96WKXpqk5AA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qUy8e-Micsi_B3X7+8Z4Co-4xi1E6ovnfwwXf8j4n9S8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAvjzF0KWVspZikM+xa_XXKOmsMq+mybPGo_5UfpAr=UKMHw0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qU1T42YFcE5VSPDTOyXud3anwPSptDvOF9MHxoR5H3ftA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1801.1349363561.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3c6e2683-6328-4225-9ef2-20bf21c3a846@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 4, 2012 11:12:41 PM UTC+8, Steen Lysgaard wrote:
> 2012/10/4 Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com>:
> 
> > On 3 October 2012 21:15, Steen Lysgaard <boxeakasteen at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Hi,
> 
> >>
> 
> >> thanks for your interest. Sorry for not being completely clear, yes
> 
> >> the length of m will always be half of the length of h.
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > (Please don't top post)
> 
> >
> 
> > I have a solution to this, then.
> 
> > It's not short or fast, but it's a lot faster than yours.
> 
> >
> 
> > But first let me explain the most obvious optimization to your version of
> 
> > the code:
> 
> >
> 
> >> combs = set()
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> for a in permutations(range(len(h)),len(h)):
> 
> >>     comb = []
> 
> >>     for i in range(len(h)):
> 
> >>         comb.append(c[i][a[i]])
> 
> >>     comb.sort()
> 
> >>
> 
> >>     frzn = tuple(comb)
> 
> >>     if frzn not in combs:
> 
> >>         combs.add(frzn)
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> >  What I have done here is make your "combs" a set. This helps because you
> 
> > are searching inside it and that is an O(N) operation... for lists.
> 
> > A set can do the same in O(1). Simplez.
> 
> >
> 
> > first  = list("AABBCCDDEE")
> 
> > second = list("abcde")
> 
> > import itertools
> 
> > #
> 
> > # Generator, so ignoring case convention
> 
> > class force_unique_combinations:
> 
> > def __init__(self, lst, n):
> 
> > self.cache = set()
> 
> > self.internal_iter = itertools.combinations(lst, n)
> 
> > def __iter__(self):
> 
> > return self
> 
> > def __next__(self):
> 
> > while True:
> 
> > nxt = next(self.internal_iter)
> 
> > if not nxt in self.cache:
> 
> > self.cache.add(nxt)
> 
> > return nxt
> 
> > def combine(first, second):
> 
> > sletter = second[0]
> 
> > first_combinations = force_unique_combinations(first, 2)
> 
> > if len(second) == 1:
> 
> > for combination in first_combinations:
> 
> > yield [sletter+combination[0], sletter+combination[1]]
> 
> > else:
> 
> > for combination in first_combinations:
> 
> > first_ = first[:]
> 
> > first_.remove(combination[0])
> 
> > first_.remove(combination[1])
> 
> > prefix = [sletter+combination[0], sletter+combination[1]]
> 
> > for inner in combine(first_, second[1:]):
> 
> > yield prefix + inner
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > This is quite naive, because I don't know how to properly implement
> 
> > force_unique_combinations, but it runs. I hope this is right. If you need
> 
> > significantly more speed your best chance is probably Cython or C, although
> 
> > I don't doubt 10x more speed may well be possible from within Python.
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > Also, 88888 Dihedral is a bot, or at least pretending like crazy to be one.
> 
> 
> 
> Great, I've now got a solution much faster than what I could come up with.
> 
> Thanks to the both of you.
> 
> And a good spot on 88... I could not for my life understand what he
> 
> (it) had written.
> 
> 
> 
> /Steen

If an unique order is defined, then it is trivial to solve this problem
without any recursions. 




From mike20007 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 16:52:50 2012
From: mike20007 at gmail.com (mike20007 at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 13:52:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sum function
Message-ID: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>

Hi All,

I am new to python and am getting the data from hbase. 
I am trying to do sum on the column as below


scanner = client.scannerOpenWithStop("tab", "10", "1000", ["cf:col1"])
total = 0.0
r = client.scannerGet(scanner)
while r:
  for k in (r[0].columns):
    total += float(r[0].columns[k].value)
  r = client.scannerGet(scanner)

print total

Do you know of better (faster) way to do sum?

Any thoughts please?

Thanks


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 17:04:53 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 15:04:53 -0600
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnEKReQiHNEHekFByxEENQbvOHff8L=AOk2Hir7J1dN4g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 2:52 PM,  <mike20007 at gmail.com> wrote:
> scanner = client.scannerOpenWithStop("tab", "10", "1000", ["cf:col1"])
> total = 0.0
> r = client.scannerGet(scanner)
> while r:
>   for k in (r[0].columns):
>     total += float(r[0].columns[k].value)
>   r = client.scannerGet(scanner)
>
> print total
>
> Do you know of better (faster) way to do sum?

scanner = client.scannerOpenWithStop("tab", "10", "1000", ["cf:col1"])
next_r = itertools.partial(client.scannerGet, scanner)
total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in
r.itervalues())


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 17:05:48 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 15:05:48 -0600
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnEKReQiHNEHekFByxEENQbvOHff8L=AOk2Hir7J1dN4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidnEKReQiHNEHekFByxEENQbvOHff8L=AOk2Hir7J1dN4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=c2xpneYNp4bkugBDjF-4gWo7rxc96j4ieEnHAbHXAKA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> scanner = client.scannerOpenWithStop("tab", "10", "1000", ["cf:col1"])
> next_r = itertools.partial(client.scannerGet, scanner)
> total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in
> r.itervalues())

That should be "functools" above, not "itertools". :-P


From mike20007 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 17:29:54 2012
From: mike20007 at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 14:29:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1810.1349384780.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidnEKReQiHNEHekFByxEENQbvOHff8L=AOk2Hir7J1dN4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1810.1349384780.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <307d5843-af17-4079-8a48-f8d7351a1d7b@googlegroups.com>

I get below error

NameError: name 'functools' is not defined

Thanks



From mike20007 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 17:29:54 2012
From: mike20007 at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 14:29:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1810.1349384780.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidnEKReQiHNEHekFByxEENQbvOHff8L=AOk2Hir7J1dN4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1810.1349384780.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <307d5843-af17-4079-8a48-f8d7351a1d7b@googlegroups.com>

I get below error

NameError: name 'functools' is not defined

Thanks



From mike20007 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 17:31:19 2012
From: mike20007 at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 14:31:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1809.1349384724.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1809.1349384724.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f0978784-9869-4c30-bf4c-fba4cad27e48@googlegroups.com>

Thanks Ian for the quick reply.

I get the below error.

NameError: name 'itertools' is not defined

Thanks


From mike20007 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 17:31:19 2012
From: mike20007 at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 14:31:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1809.1349384724.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1809.1349384724.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f0978784-9869-4c30-bf4c-fba4cad27e48@googlegroups.com>

Thanks Ian for the quick reply.

I get the below error.

NameError: name 'itertools' is not defined

Thanks


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 17:34:41 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 07:34:41 +1000
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <307d5843-af17-4079-8a48-f8d7351a1d7b@googlegroups.com>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidnEKReQiHNEHekFByxEENQbvOHff8L=AOk2Hir7J1dN4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1810.1349384780.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<307d5843-af17-4079-8a48-f8d7351a1d7b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoU3DoRW+eKDi==Qg7FP0HWqoq0rgNXQFWH0JWAtZckxA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 7:29 AM, Mike <mike20007 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I get below error
>
> NameError: name 'functools' is not defined
>
> Thanks

functools is a module:

import functools

ChrisA


From d at davea.name  Thu Oct  4 17:39:50 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 17:39:50 -0400
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <307d5843-af17-4079-8a48-f8d7351a1d7b@googlegroups.com>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidnEKReQiHNEHekFByxEENQbvOHff8L=AOk2Hir7J1dN4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1810.1349384780.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<307d5843-af17-4079-8a48-f8d7351a1d7b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <506E0226.7010202@davea.name>

On 10/04/2012 05:29 PM, Mike wrote:
> I get below error
>
> NameError: name 'functools' is not defined
>

functools is a module in the standard library. You need to import it.

import functools



-- 

DaveA



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Oct  4 17:59:27 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 22:59:27 +0100
Subject: + in regular expression
In-Reply-To: <CA+YdQ_4qK+UGjxpuzjsg3rVQfcQVLPgPB1SqP6Y+REa=OB8ZYQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YdQ_4qK+UGjxpuzjsg3rVQfcQVLPgPB1SqP6Y+REa=OB8ZYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k4l0nq$udn$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 04/10/2012 04:01, contro opinion wrote:
>>>> str="          gg"
>>>> x1=re.match("\s+",str)
>>>> x1
> <_sre.SRE_Match object at 0xb7354db0>
>>>> x2=re.match("\s{6}",str)
>>>> x2
> <_sre.SRE_Match object at 0xb7337f38>
>>>> x3=re.match("\s{6}+",str)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>    File "/usr/lib/python2.6/re.py", line 137, in match
>      return _compile(pattern, flags).match(string)
>    File "/usr/lib/python2.6/re.py", line 245, in _compile
>      raise error, v # invalid expression
> sre_constants.error: multiple repeat
>>>>
>
> why the  "\s{6}+"  is not a regular pattern?
>
>
>

Why are you too lazy to do any research before posting a question?

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Thu Oct  4 18:24:17 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 22:24:17 +0000
Subject: Experimental Python-based shell
In-Reply-To: <CAE6_B5T-GHaU7tL4tMBsYqEDao6T_5HhB3uhStw2e+f_eTEitA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8646284b-df85-45fe-a793-56b081c6262c@googlegroups.com>
	<CAL7_Mo-dze8rm7=0URB9RTL_QHHWb+NovPu4KpDc21AH2ASNJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE6_B5QHBE_8jk7x4EkFdwTdEpUNGmSxP-+4QkE6wuC_KbxAQw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAL7_Mo8uJLS68jFP-9-GzvjYu3RdqTXtAz8W9YJc=sfi9HOCQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE6_B5T-GHaU7tL4tMBsYqEDao6T_5HhB3uhStw2e+f_eTEitA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF474166D7158@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

(A little quoting manipulation to make it easier to read with
appropriate context.)

> > On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 11:25 AM, Amirouche Boubekki <amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> 2012/10/3 Jonathan Hayward <jonathan.hayward at pobox.com>
> > > The chief benefit besides the searching, so far, is that you can use Py3k mixed with shell commands as the
> > > scripting language--so script in Python instead of bash.
> > >
> > > When using Python for scripting, Python lines are indented by an extra tab (or four spaces) while shell-like
> > > commands are not indented. So:
> 
> > > cjsh> ? ? for index in range(10):
> > > ----> echo %(index)d
> > > ---->
> > > 0
> > > 1
> > > 2
[snip]
> > 
> > > Echo could (and maybe should) be a built-in, but it isn't. The output is os.system()'ed to bash, which echoes
> > > based on a command that includes the value of a Python variable. The implementation is a bit crude, but it is
> > reasonably powerful.
> > > 
> > > I have other things on the agenda, like making it able to run scripts and doing fuzzy matching, but for now
> > > those are the main two attractions.
> > 

> > Is it possible to drop completly the bash syntax and use some python library (I saw it on github) that wraps
> > bash commands with python functions or the other around making it possible to call python functions with a bash-
> > like syntax. The syntax you are talking about seems strange.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Amirouche

Jonathan Hayward wrote:
> I am open to suggestions and patches. I don't think the syntax strange, though: it offers a clear and distinct
> way to differentiate Python and shell commands, and shell commands can access Python variables when specified.
> And it is a simple rule, without footnotes needed.

I need more footnotes. :) Does every shell command not have indentation? 
How can you tell if the shell command is supposed to be in the loop or after
the loop?

    for index in range(10):
        # do something
echo %(index)d

Is the above equivalent to Python pseudo-code solution A or B?

Solution A,
for index in range(10):
    #do something
Popen('echo', file_path)

Solution B,
for index in range(10):
    #do something
    Popen('echo', file_path)

How do I make achieve the other solution?


This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Thu Oct  4 18:36:02 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 22:36:02 +0000
Subject: final question: logging to stdout and updating files
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmo4r77m8Rjdsj3PhqCF0fDuxH2XEkh=rzKr40XWNA3-8w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1781.1349320295.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.1797.1349357671.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506d967a$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmo4r77m8Rjdsj3PhqCF0fDuxH2XEkh=rzKr40XWNA3-8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF474166D71B1@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Chris Angelico wrote:
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:28 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: final question: logging to stdout and updating files
> 
> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 12:00 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> > That is *terrible* advice. But if you insist on following it, you can
> > optimize *any* Python program to this:
> >
> > # === start code ===
> > pass  # this line is optional
> > # === end code ===
> >
> >
> > There you go. The most heavily optimized, fastest Python program in
> > existence. Sure, it has a few bugs, but boy is it fast!!!
> 
> Not many bugs though! I ran it in my Python 5.2.7 for GNU/Windows
> 256-bit (err, yeah, I borrowed Guido's time machine but had the silly
> thing in reverse... oops) and it worked perfectly, except that
> indentation has moved from "significant" to "mandatory". When I added
> the necessary 5 space indent at the beginning, it correctly created
> world peace, ensured that Australia won the next Test Match, and then
> printed "Hello, world!\n" to stdout. Unfortunately, a bug in your "end
> code" comment meant that the peace it created was by wiping out all
> life, but that's pretty minor in the scheme of things.

Python is a product for Americans! ;) It should ensure America
wins the Test Match....wait, do we even have a cricket team?

> 
> Optimization really is that important, folks!
> 
> ChrisA
> may need to schedule surgical detongueing of his cheek

Think we could get a group rate for c.l.p?

Ramit

This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Oct  4 18:41:24 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 00:41:24 +0200
Subject: How can I hide my stack frames in a TestCase subclass?
References: <52b17563-966c-46bc-bd77-da29e944c909@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k4l39v$9lc$1@ger.gmane.org>

David Banks wrote:

> I want to add a custom assert method to a TestCase subclass.  I tried to
> copy my implementation from the unittest module so that it would match
> the behaviour of the regular TestCase as closely as possible.  (I would
> prefer to just delegate to self.assertEqual() but this causes even more
> backtrace noise, see below.)  The unittest module seems to automatically
> hide some internal details of its implementation when reporting failed
> assertions.
> 
>   import unittest
> 
>   class MyTestCase(unittest.TestCase):
>       def assertLengthIsOne(self, sequence, msg=None):
>           if len(sequence) != 1:
>               msg = self._formatMessage(msg, "length is not one")
>               raise self.failureException(msg)
> 
>   class TestFoo(MyTestCase):
>       seq = (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
> 
>       def test_stock_unittest_assertion(self):
>           self.assertEqual(len(self.seq), 1)
> 
>       def test_custom_assertion(self):
>           self.assertLengthIsOne(self.seq)
> 
> 
>   unittest.main()
> 
> The output of this is as such:
> 
>   amoe at vuurvlieg $ python unittest-demo.py
>   FF
>   ======================================================================
>   FAIL: test_custom_assertion (__main__.TestFoo)
>   ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Traceback (most recent call last):
>     File "unittest-demo.py", line 16, in test_custom_assertion
>       self.assertLengthIsOne(self.seq)
>     File "unittest-demo.py", line 7, in assertLengthIsOne
>       raise self.failureException(msg)
>   AssertionError: length is not one
> 
>   ======================================================================
>   FAIL: test_stock_unittest_assertion (__main__.TestFoo)
>   ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Traceback (most recent call last):
>     File "unittest-demo.py", line 13, in test_stock_unittest_assertion
>       self.assertEqual(len(self.seq), 1)
>   AssertionError: 5 != 1
> 
>   ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Ran 2 tests in 0.000s
> 
>   FAILED (failures=2)
> 
> Note that the custom assert method causes a stack trace with two frames,
> one inside the method itself, whereas the stock unittest method only has
> one frame, the relevant line in the user's code.  How can I apply this
> frame-hiding behaviour to my own method?

Move MyTestCase in a separate module and define a global variable 

__unittest = True

$ cat mytestcase.py 
import unittest

__unittest = True

class MyTestCase(unittest.TestCase):
    def assertLengthIsOne(self, sequence, msg=None):
        if len(sequence) != 1:
            msg = self._formatMessage(msg, "length is not one")
            raise self.failureException(msg)

$ cat mytestcase_demo.py 
import unittest
from mytestcase import MyTestCase

class TestFoo(MyTestCase):
    seq = (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

    def test_stock_unittest_assertion(self):
        self.assertEqual(len(self.seq), 1)

    def test_custom_assertion(self):
        self.assertLengthIsOne(self.seq)

if __name__ == "__main__":
    unittest.main()

$ python mytestcase_demo.py 
FF
======================================================================
FAIL: test_custom_assertion (__main__.TestFoo)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "mytestcase_demo.py", line 11, in test_custom_assertion
    self.assertLengthIsOne(self.seq)
AssertionError: length is not one

======================================================================
FAIL: test_stock_unittest_assertion (__main__.TestFoo)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "mytestcase_demo.py", line 8, in test_stock_unittest_assertion
    self.assertEqual(len(self.seq), 1)
AssertionError: 5 != 1

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ran 2 tests in 0.000s

FAILED (failures=2)
$ 




From animelovin at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 19:13:51 2012
From: animelovin at gmail.com (Etienne Robillard)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 19:13:51 -0400
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmq6=5ehYSwbD6kbtyvns8zdMigLE+a+U0=HDjQmh59xuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20121004141046.677dac1e8bf6dada0b6af6b3@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrrkQ0buTLs3q0GWMnTNjGuJOMiqh7dcGr_0A=ZTt-bFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121004181157.31c1083520ff8230242962e1@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmq6=5ehYSwbD6kbtyvns8zdMigLE+a+U0=HDjQmh59xuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121004191351.8c6fcfd8ddad7b6e6bfc02f2@gmail.com>

Thanks, but I tried all that and don't have much energy for continuing. If you're
serious about open source then maybe you can forward the thread to django-developers
and get some fundings to pay for a minimalistic fee to get the project maintained
by someone else, otherwise I'd prefer sticking with more profitable activities.

E

On Fri, 5 Oct 2012 08:23:05 +1000
Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 8:11 AM, Etienne Robillard <animelovin at gmail.com> wrote:
> > For $399 i give you the current source code and you can do whatever you like with it, including
> > putting in github or sf. i think to have lost too many time already with further
> > maintaining the open source version without getting a penny out of it.
> 
> Like I said, I'm not personally interested; but perhaps say that to
> the django list and someone'll bite. But if you're really tired of it,
> then just post the source code and someone may end up taking your
> project to places you never had the energy to.
> 
> <anecdote>
> There was - and, incidentally, still kinda is - a project called Gmud,
> a 32-bit (but Win32s compatible) Windows MUD client. Its author asked
> people to send him money if they liked and used the program - $US20 I
> think - but almost nobody ever did. For years, Gmud was the
> recommended Windows client for Threshold RPG, and yet still something
> like *four* people ever sent the author money. So the author threw the
> source out to the world and said "I'm done, have fun".
> 
> Enter the Threshold RPG community. Gmud has been extremely popular (in
> fact, some people still use it today), in spite of some limitations
> that may have been reasonable a few years ago, but are ridiculous now,
> like a fixed 500-line scrollback buffer. So some of the people there
> ask me to grab the source, tweak a few things, and recompile. I'm a
> geek, I do these sorts of things.
> 
> Well, it turned out to be not that simple, for a few reasons. But
> eventually, after a near-complete rewrite, I produced a new MUD client
> that uses the same look and feel as Gmud, as an acknowledged
> derivative. RosMud++ is now the officially recommended Windows client
> for Threshold, and it would never have happened if Gmud's source
> hadn't been given away.
> </anecdote>
> 
> It's really hard to make money off software, these days. Which is a
> pity, because there's lots of good software that'd be worth money. I
> do see your pain. :( This is part of why my newest MUD client, Gypsum,
> is open-sourced from the very beginning.
> 
> ChrisA


-- 
Etienne Robillard
Green Tea Hackers Club
Fine Software Carpentry For The Rest Of Us!
http://gthc.org/
erob at gthcfoundation.org


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 19:25:18 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 09:25:18 +1000
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <20121004191351.8c6fcfd8ddad7b6e6bfc02f2@gmail.com>
References: <20121004141046.677dac1e8bf6dada0b6af6b3@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrrkQ0buTLs3q0GWMnTNjGuJOMiqh7dcGr_0A=ZTt-bFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121004181157.31c1083520ff8230242962e1@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmq6=5ehYSwbD6kbtyvns8zdMigLE+a+U0=HDjQmh59xuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121004191351.8c6fcfd8ddad7b6e6bfc02f2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrLar0ZsmjbZ0P1TPm31cYiK49HTAhAM=GBG7FDpjYoLA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 9:13 AM, Etienne Robillard <animelovin at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks, but I tried all that and don't have much energy for continuing. If you're
> serious about open source then maybe you can forward the thread to django-developers
> and get some fundings to pay for a minimalistic fee to get the project maintained
> by someone else, otherwise I'd prefer sticking with more profitable activities.

Apologies to all for the non sequitur, Etienne and I were indulging in
an off-list conversation. I don't mind it being public (there's
nothing secret in it), but it may be a tad confusing to those who just
got the tail end of that!

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct  4 19:37:47 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Oct 2012 23:37:47 GMT
Subject: fastest data structure for retrieving objects identified by
	(x,y) tuple?
References: <mailman.1777.1349303447.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506ced38$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<k4kcfn$732$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
Message-ID: <506e1dcb$0$29972$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 18:11:28 +0200, Thomas Rachel wrote:

> Am 04.10.2012 03:58 schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
>> alist = [[None]*2400 for i in range(2400)] from random import randrange
>> for i in range(1000):
>>      x = randrange(2400)
>>      y = randrange(2400)
>>      adict[(x, y)] = "something"
>>      alist[x][y] = "something"
> 
>> The actual sizes printed will depend on how sparse the matrices are,
>> but for the same above (approximately half full),
> 
> I wouldn't consider 1000 of 5760000 "half full"...

Doh! I obviously can't multiply...

I mean, well done, that was a deliberate test to see who was paying 
attention, and you passed! 

:)


-- 
Steven


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Oct  4 19:47:01 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 19:47:01 -0400
Subject: Anybody know what's up with Gmane?
In-Reply-To: <4509cf54-a71d-44cc-90a5-0abd7c6a80cd@googlegroups.com>
References: <4509cf54-a71d-44cc-90a5-0abd7c6a80cd@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <506E1FF5.7040200@udel.edu>

On 10/4/2012 3:03 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

 > I read some 20 Python mailing lists through Gmane using Thunderbird
 > on Windows but nothing new has arrived for almost 24 hours, hence why
 > I've reluctantly resorted to Google groups to try and find out what
 > is going on.  Looking directly at
 > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general shows the last post
 > was the Steven D'Aprano thread titled "Emulating C++ namespaces with
 > ChainMap and metaclass trickery" on 3 Oct at 20:26.
 >
 > I've tried flagging this up but obviously with no success.  Anyone
 > any ideas on how to sort this out?

This is the longest outage I remember, but it is back up now. I am 
reading and replying via gmane.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From fabiofz at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 20:02:55 2012
From: fabiofz at gmail.com (Fabio Zadrozny)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 21:02:55 -0300
Subject: PyDev 2.7.0 Released
Message-ID: <CANXBEFoimwBiyDhuy=cimFPqMUNmMkaBVeY4erspvvpeAwp+tg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

PyDev 2.7.0 has been released

Details on PyDev: http://pydev.org
Details on its development: http://pydev.blogspot.com

Release Highlights:
-------------------------------

* **Code formatter**:

 * Number of spaces before a comment can be configured (default: 2
spaces as pep-8 recommends)
 * Minimum number of spaces before start of comment may be configured
(default: 1 space as pep-8 recommends)
 * Right trim lines now also properly trims comments.
 * When the auto-formatter is enabled, if syntax errors are present
the code-formatting is not applied (it could end up getting things
wrong in this situation).

* Python 3.3 'yield from' syntax now properly supported.

* Fixed issue when unable to get filesystem encoding when configuring
interpreter.
* Debugger: 'Enable Condition' checkbox in break properties dialog no
longer ignored.
* Fixed ClassCastException during parse in Python file with yield in
global scope.
* Fixed StackOverflowError in fast parser (i.e.: parser used to get
only the outline of the code).
* PyDev Mylyn integration can now be installed on Eclipse 4.2.
* Fixed NPE when trying to add interpreter and it detected directory
which we could not list() in Java.
* Fixed cache issue in code-completion (nature.startRequests() could
end up not having nature.endRequests() called).
* Save a bit faster on big files (i.e.: No longer doing
invalidateTextPresentation on each save).


What is PyDev?
---------------------------

PyDev is a plugin that enables users to use Eclipse for Python, Jython
and IronPython development -- making Eclipse a first class Python IDE
-- It comes with many goodies such as code completion, syntax
highlighting, syntax analysis, refactor, debug and many others.


Cheers,

-- 
Fabio Zadrozny
------------------------------------------------------
Software Developer

Appcelerator
http://appcelerator.com/

Aptana
http://aptana.com/

PyDev - Python Development Environment for Eclipse
http://pydev.org
http://pydev.blogspot.com


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct  4 20:22:06 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Oct 2012 00:22:06 GMT
Subject: notmm is dead!
References: <mailman.1807.1349374225.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <506e282e$0$1726$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 14:10:46 -0400, Etienne Robillard wrote:

> Dear list,
> 
> Due to lack of energy and resources i'm really sad to announce the
> removal of notmm from pypi and bitbucket. 

Well that's just rude. Even if you don't intend to maintain the software 
any more, why are you removing it from pypi? Since you say you are a fan 
of Open Source software, just flag it as unmaintained and leave it for 
somebody else to pick up.

If you are going to abandon the project, release it on PyPI with a dual 
MIT and GPL licence, and let it be taken over by somebody else.

If you were looking for sympathy here, starting off by removing your 
project from free hosting, then complaining that you can't pay for the 
non-free hosting, was NOT the right way to do so.

By the way, the latest version of notmm (0.4.4) has an empty licence 
file. No licence means that everyone using it is unlicenced and therefore 
infringing your copyright.



-- 
Steven


From nad at acm.org  Thu Oct  4 20:32:47 2012
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 17:32:47 -0700
Subject: Anybody know what's up with Gmane?
References: <4509cf54-a71d-44cc-90a5-0abd7c6a80cd@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nad-5D06AE.17324704102012@news.gmane.org>

In article <4509cf54-a71d-44cc-90a5-0abd7c6a80cd at googlegroups.com>,
 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> I read some 20 Python mailing lists through Gmane using Thunderbird on 
> Windows but nothing new has arrived for almost 24 hours, hence why I've 
> reluctantly resorted to Google groups to try and find out what is going on.  
> Looking directly at http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general shows the 
> last post was the Steven D'Aprano thread titled "Emulating C++ namespaces 
> with ChainMap and metaclass trickery" on 3 Oct at 20:26.
> 
> I've tried flagging this up but obviously with no success.  Anyone any ideas 
> on how to sort this out?

There were problems on one of the gmane servers.  The problem was fixed 
as of about three hours ago and things should be returning to normal.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From animelovin at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 20:38:23 2012
From: animelovin at gmail.com (Etienne Robillard)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 20:38:23 -0400
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <506e282e$0$1726$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.1807.1349374225.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506e282e$0$1726$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20121004203823.5fb52a370de74f027328b07f@gmail.com>

Err not exactly.. :)

Firstly notmm is still ISC licensed and available from here http://gthc.org/notmm/dist/.

Secondly i don't want to leave it to the hands of people without I can get a single dime for the work did, however some peoples
don't seem to get this point yet..

My apologies if you feel this removal was rude anyways. Feel free to contact me again
if you need further clarification or would like to take over maintainership of a branch
for a minimal fee.

Kind regards,

Etienne

On 05 Oct 2012 00:22:06 GMT
Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:

> On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 14:10:46 -0400, Etienne Robillard wrote:
> 
> > Dear list,
> > 
> > Due to lack of energy and resources i'm really sad to announce the
> > removal of notmm from pypi and bitbucket. 
> 
> Well that's just rude. Even if you don't intend to maintain the software 
> any more, why are you removing it from pypi? Since you say you are a fan 
> of Open Source software, just flag it as unmaintained and leave it for 
> somebody else to pick up.
> 
> If you are going to abandon the project, release it on PyPI with a dual 
> MIT and GPL licence, and let it be taken over by somebody else.
> 
> If you were looking for sympathy here, starting off by removing your 
> project from free hosting, then complaining that you can't pay for the 
> non-free hosting, was NOT the right way to do so.
> 
> By the way, the latest version of notmm (0.4.4) has an empty licence 
> file. No licence means that everyone using it is unlicenced and therefore 
> infringing your copyright.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steven
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


-- 
Etienne Robillard
Green Tea Hackers Club
Fine Software Carpentry For The Rest Of Us!
http://gthc.org/
erob at gthcfoundation.org


From mike20007 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 20:40:49 2012
From: mike20007 at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 17:40:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1813.1349386825.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidnEKReQiHNEHekFByxEENQbvOHff8L=AOk2Hir7J1dN4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1810.1349384780.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<307d5843-af17-4079-8a48-f8d7351a1d7b@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1813.1349386825.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3e6de8b6-5ad5-4b29-92b4-9e957158ca5a@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 4, 2012 5:40:26 PM UTC-4, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 10/04/2012 05:29 PM, Mike wrote:
> 
> > I get below error
> 
> >
> 
> > NameError: name 'functools' is not defined
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> functools is a module in the standard library. You need to import it.
> 
> 
> 
> import functools
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> DaveA

I imported functools. Now I get the below error please.


Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 16, in <module>
    total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r.itervalues()) 
  File "test.py", line 16, in <genexpr>
    total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r.itervalues()) 
AttributeError: 'list' object has no attribute 'itervalues'

Thanks


From mike20007 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 20:40:49 2012
From: mike20007 at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 17:40:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1813.1349386825.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidnEKReQiHNEHekFByxEENQbvOHff8L=AOk2Hir7J1dN4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1810.1349384780.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<307d5843-af17-4079-8a48-f8d7351a1d7b@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1813.1349386825.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3e6de8b6-5ad5-4b29-92b4-9e957158ca5a@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 4, 2012 5:40:26 PM UTC-4, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 10/04/2012 05:29 PM, Mike wrote:
> 
> > I get below error
> 
> >
> 
> > NameError: name 'functools' is not defined
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> functools is a module in the standard library. You need to import it.
> 
> 
> 
> import functools
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> DaveA

I imported functools. Now I get the below error please.


Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 16, in <module>
    total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r.itervalues()) 
  File "test.py", line 16, in <genexpr>
    total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r.itervalues()) 
AttributeError: 'list' object has no attribute 'itervalues'

Thanks


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 20:46:18 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 18:46:18 -0600
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <506e282e$0$1726$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.1807.1349374225.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506e282e$0$1726$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmXYhs2aK3uzc82hzZNYX6tVDb3Vad2a2Foy5OE9jxk1A@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 6:22 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> By the way, the latest version of notmm (0.4.4) has an empty licence
> file. No licence means that everyone using it is unlicenced and therefore
> infringing your copyright.

It's an ISC license.  The notmm-0.4.4/LICENSE file is a link to the
notmm-0.4.4/notmm-0.4.4-rc7/LICENSE file, unless your archiver fails
to reconstruct the link when untarring, in which case the former ends
up as an empty file (but the latter is still present).


From animelovin at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 20:56:43 2012
From: animelovin at gmail.com (Etienne Robillard)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 20:56:43 -0400
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidmXYhs2aK3uzc82hzZNYX6tVDb3Vad2a2Foy5OE9jxk1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1807.1349374225.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506e282e$0$1726$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzidmXYhs2aK3uzc82hzZNYX6tVDb3Vad2a2Foy5OE9jxk1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121004205643.b92cbe656521996843cf01fe@gmail.com>

You probably have a old tarball or something... 

$ wget http://gthc.org/dist/notmm/notmm-0.4.4.tar.gz
$ md5sum notmm-0.4.4.tar.gz
dff1b2ec5373b5157cf79d57169a336e  notmm-0.4.4.tar.gz

Cheers,
Etienne

On Thu, 4 Oct 2012 18:46:18 -0600
Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 6:22 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> > By the way, the latest version of notmm (0.4.4) has an empty licence
> > file. No licence means that everyone using it is unlicenced and therefore
> > infringing your copyright.
> 
> It's an ISC license.  The notmm-0.4.4/LICENSE file is a link to the
> notmm-0.4.4/notmm-0.4.4-rc7/LICENSE file, unless your archiver fails
> to reconstruct the link when untarring, in which case the former ends
> up as an empty file (but the latter is still present).
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


-- 
Etienne Robillard
Green Tea Hackers Club
Fine Software Carpentry For The Rest Of Us!
http://gthc.org/
erob at gthcfoundation.org


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 20:59:03 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 18:59:03 -0600
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <3e6de8b6-5ad5-4b29-92b4-9e957158ca5a@googlegroups.com>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidnEKReQiHNEHekFByxEENQbvOHff8L=AOk2Hir7J1dN4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1810.1349384780.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<307d5843-af17-4079-8a48-f8d7351a1d7b@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1813.1349386825.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<3e6de8b6-5ad5-4b29-92b4-9e957158ca5a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkVYQyHi8BSnrmkhOYh=1U2s4U7=5KpbOeYecN-LR24AQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 6:40 PM, Mike <mike20007 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "test.py", line 16, in <module>
>     total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r.itervalues())
>   File "test.py", line 16, in <genexpr>
>     total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r.itervalues())
> AttributeError: 'list' object has no attribute 'itervalues'

"r.itervalues()" should have been "r[0].columns.itervalues()", I
think.  It's hard to test code against an API that you don't have. :-)


From mike20007 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 22:01:24 2012
From: mike20007 at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 19:01:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1824.1349398775.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidnEKReQiHNEHekFByxEENQbvOHff8L=AOk2Hir7J1dN4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1810.1349384780.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<307d5843-af17-4079-8a48-f8d7351a1d7b@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1813.1349386825.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<3e6de8b6-5ad5-4b29-92b4-9e957158ca5a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1824.1349398775.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d2939506-ae0e-40fc-a4fb-626ea99a941e@googlegroups.com>


I agree with you, Ian. Thanks for all the help.  Now I get the below error.

  File "test.py", line 17, in <module>
    total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r[0].columns.itervalues())
  File "test.py", line 17, in <genexpr>
    total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r[0].columns.itervalues())

Thanks


From mike20007 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 22:01:24 2012
From: mike20007 at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 19:01:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1824.1349398775.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidnEKReQiHNEHekFByxEENQbvOHff8L=AOk2Hir7J1dN4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1810.1349384780.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<307d5843-af17-4079-8a48-f8d7351a1d7b@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1813.1349386825.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<3e6de8b6-5ad5-4b29-92b4-9e957158ca5a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1824.1349398775.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d2939506-ae0e-40fc-a4fb-626ea99a941e@googlegroups.com>


I agree with you, Ian. Thanks for all the help.  Now I get the below error.

  File "test.py", line 17, in <module>
    total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r[0].columns.itervalues())
  File "test.py", line 17, in <genexpr>
    total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r[0].columns.itervalues())

Thanks


From driscoll at cs.wisc.edu  Thu Oct  4 22:25:40 2012
From: driscoll at cs.wisc.edu (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 21:25:40 -0500
Subject: + in regular expression
In-Reply-To: <k4l0nq$udn$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CA+YdQ_4qK+UGjxpuzjsg3rVQfcQVLPgPB1SqP6Y+REa=OB8ZYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<k4l0nq$udn$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <506E4524.3010504@cs.wisc.edu>

On 10/04/2012 04:59 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>> why the  "\s{6}+"  is not a regular pattern?
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Why are you too lazy to do any research before posting a question?
>
Errr... what?

I'm only somewhat familiar with the extra stuff that languages provide 
in their regexs beyond true regular expressions and simple extensions, 
but I was surprised to see the question because I too would have 
expected that to work. (And match any sequence of whitespace characters 
whose length is a multiple of six.) I reskimmed the documentation of the 
re module and didn't see anything that would prohibit it. I looked at 
several of the results of a Google search for the multiple repeat error, 
and didn't really find any explanation beyond "because you can't do it" 
or "here's a regex that works." (Well, OK, I did see a mention of + 
being a possessive quantifier which Python doesn't support. But that 
still doesn't explain why my expectation isn't what happened.)

In what way is that an unreasonable question?

Evan



From torriem at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 22:39:55 2012
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 20:39:55 -0600
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <20121004191351.8c6fcfd8ddad7b6e6bfc02f2@gmail.com>
References: <20121004141046.677dac1e8bf6dada0b6af6b3@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrrkQ0buTLs3q0GWMnTNjGuJOMiqh7dcGr_0A=ZTt-bFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121004181157.31c1083520ff8230242962e1@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmq6=5ehYSwbD6kbtyvns8zdMigLE+a+U0=HDjQmh59xuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121004191351.8c6fcfd8ddad7b6e6bfc02f2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <506E487B.3010704@gmail.com>

On 10/04/2012 05:13 PM, Etienne Robillard wrote:
> Thanks, but I tried all that and don't have much energy for continuing. If you're
> serious about open source then maybe you can forward the thread to django-developers
> and get some fundings to pay for a minimalistic fee to get the project maintained
> by someone else, otherwise I'd prefer sticking with more profitable activities.

Nothing in the existing license prevents someone from taking the latest
source and posting it back on Pypi as an unmaintained package.  Isn't
that correct?

What are you referring to when you say "minimalistic fee."  Would this
be a fee you require for transferring copyright assignment?  I know of
no fee necessary for a new maintainer to take over should one wish to.
Copyright assignment is not strictly necessary.



From Saroo_Jain at infosys.com  Thu Oct  4 23:44:25 2012
From: Saroo_Jain at infosys.com (Saroo Jain)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 03:44:25 +0000
Subject: + in regular expression
In-Reply-To: <k4l0nq$udn$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CA+YdQ_4qK+UGjxpuzjsg3rVQfcQVLPgPB1SqP6Y+REa=OB8ZYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<k4l0nq$udn$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <9824145E4C0B6C4A94BEF7CE7692E808199E4064@BLRKECMBX22.ad.infosys.com>

x3=re.match("\s{6}+",str)

instead use
x3=re.match("\s{6,}",str)

This serves the purpose. And also give some food for thought for why the first one throws an error.

Cheers,
Saroo

-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+saroo_jain=infosys.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Lawrence
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 3:29 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: + in regular expression

On 04/10/2012 04:01, contro opinion wrote:
>>>> str="          gg"
>>>> x1=re.match("\s+",str)
>>>> x1
> <_sre.SRE_Match object at 0xb7354db0>
>>>> x2=re.match("\s{6}",str)
>>>> x2
> <_sre.SRE_Match object at 0xb7337f38>
>>>> x3=re.match("\s{6}+",str)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>    File "/usr/lib/python2.6/re.py", line 137, in match
>      return _compile(pattern, flags).match(string)
>    File "/usr/lib/python2.6/re.py", line 245, in _compile
>      raise error, v # invalid expression
> sre_constants.error: multiple repeat
>>>>
>
> why the  "\s{6}+"  is not a regular pattern?
>
>
>

Why are you too lazy to do any research before posting a question?

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Oct  5 00:12:02 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 00:12:02 -0400
Subject: Experimental Python-based shell
In-Reply-To: <k4i6qm$mi9$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <8646284b-df85-45fe-a793-56b081c6262c@googlegroups.com>
	<CAL7_Mo-dze8rm7=0URB9RTL_QHHWb+NovPu4KpDc21AH2ASNJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE6_B5QHBE_8jk7x4EkFdwTdEpUNGmSxP-+4QkE6wuC_KbxAQw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAL7_Mo8uJLS68jFP-9-GzvjYu3RdqTXtAz8W9YJc=sfi9HOCQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE6_B5T-GHaU7tL4tMBsYqEDao6T_5HhB3uhStw2e+f_eTEitA@mail.gmail.com>
	<k4i6qm$mi9$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <k4lmmq$d8k$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/3/2012 4:22 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> Indexing Python code is ugly. I suggest prefixing non-Python with $.

Indenting, meaning indenting the Python header lines but not non-Python 
lines.

> On 10/3/2012 1:24 PM, Jonathan Hayward wrote:
>> I am open to suggestions and patches. I don't think the syntax strange,
>> though: it offers a clear and distinct way to differentiate Python and
>> shell commands, and shell commands can access Python variables when
>> specified. And it is a simple rule, without footnotes needed.
>


-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From deron.meranda at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 00:13:17 2012
From: deron.meranda at gmail.com (Deron Meranda)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 21:13:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Embedded Python 3 porting issues when passing FILE* to
	PyRun_SimpleFile() in Windows mixed-compiler environment
Message-ID: <cf01deb3-e062-443b-a6cc-49b61c664ded@googlegroups.com>

Hi.  I'm trying to convert a large C application that embeds Python so it works with Python 3, and am running into an new API limitation I can't solve.  I have a report from Windows users that there is a crashing problem occurring with calls to PyRun_SimpleFile (and similar functions).  This appears to happen when people are using a Python DLL compiled with one compiler (e.g., MicroSoft's) and the application with another compiler (e.g., MinGW/gcc).

The basic problem is that C type (FILE*) is not defined by the Windows OS, but instead is specific to the compiler and its associated runtime-environment. So therefore it is not safe to pass a FILE* across DLL boundaries.  However many of the Python C API functions only accept a FILE*.

Under Python 2 a work-around was used by calling the PyFile_FromString() then PyFile_AsFile(), to effectively get the underlying fopen() to occur inside the Python DLL so that an incompatible FILE* is not passed across the DLL boundary.

However many of those PyFile functions, including PyFile_FromFile(), were removed from the Python 3 API.  So how can one safely call PyRun_SimpleFile() in Python 3 in Windows where different compilers could be used?

Thanks
-- 
Deron Meranda
http://deron.meranda.us/


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 01:14:13 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 23:14:13 -0600
Subject: + in regular expression
In-Reply-To: <9824145E4C0B6C4A94BEF7CE7692E808199E4064@BLRKECMBX22.ad.infosys.com>
References: <CA+YdQ_4qK+UGjxpuzjsg3rVQfcQVLPgPB1SqP6Y+REa=OB8ZYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<k4l0nq$udn$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<9824145E4C0B6C4A94BEF7CE7692E808199E4064@BLRKECMBX22.ad.infosys.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnhtcOtYUHXWbNwU9NE0r40tPyFp2uivAxPqjpGS=vt-g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 9:44 PM, Saroo Jain <Saroo_Jain at infosys.com> wrote:
> x3=re.match("\s{6}+",str)
>
> instead use
> x3=re.match("\s{6,}",str)
>
> This serves the purpose. And also give some food for thought for why the first one throws an error.

That matches six or more spaces, not multiples of six spaces.


From cs at zip.com.au  Fri Oct  5 01:22:28 2012
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 15:22:28 +1000
Subject: + in regular expression
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnH2T5vsYT=nMvBmO4V6fmK+aMfHpxQDWrwArJ6aKtVew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALwzidnH2T5vsYT=nMvBmO4V6fmK+aMfHpxQDWrwArJ6aKtVew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121005052228.GA19273@cskk.homeip.net>

On 03Oct2012 21:17, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
| On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 9:01 PM, contro opinion <contropinion at gmail.com> wrote:
| > why the  "\s{6}+"  is not a regular pattern?
| 
| Use a group: "(?:\s{6})+"

Yeah, it is probably a precedence issue in the grammar.
"(\s{6})+" is also accepted.
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

Disclaimer: ERIM wanted to share my opinions, but I wouldn't let them.
        - David Wiseman <dwiseman at erim.org>


From mpg at elzevir.fr  Fri Oct  5 02:28:22 2012
From: mpg at elzevir.fr (Manuel =?iso-8859-1?q?P=E9gouri=E9-Gonnard?=)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 08:28:22 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: How can I hide my stack frames in a TestCase subclass?
References: <52b17563-966c-46bc-bd77-da29e944c909@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1826.1349400392.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k4lum6$c9q$1@thue.elzevir.fr>

Peter Otten scripsit :

> David Banks wrote:
>
>> Note that the custom assert method causes a stack trace with two frames,
>> one inside the method itself, whereas the stock unittest method only has
>> one frame, the relevant line in the user's code.  How can I apply this
>> frame-hiding behaviour to my own method?
>
> Move MyTestCase in a separate module and define a global variable 
>
> __unittest = True
>
Hum, is it documented somewhere? I can't find it in the doc. Also, I'm
curious to know what kind of magic it's using.

-- 
Manuel P?gouri?-Gonnard - http://people.math.jussieu.fr/~mpg/




From justmailharsh at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 03:20:35 2012
From: justmailharsh at gmail.com (justmailharsh at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 00:20:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Reading properties file in Python, except using ConfigParser()
Message-ID: <d8dd6f46-aa8b-45d1-8345-fffd62c03e4a@googlegroups.com>

Hi All,

How to read properties file in Python? I found ConfigParser() but it has a 'section' limitation, so looking for other alternatives.

Thanks,

Harsh


From shivakrshn49 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 04:03:56 2012
From: shivakrshn49 at gmail.com (shivakrshn49 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 01:03:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to create a login screen using core python language without using
	any framework
Message-ID: <97fa2804-adda-428f-a78a-d9ab3e22e965@googlegroups.com>

I need to develop a simple login page using Python language with two fields and a button, like:

    Username, Password, Login

I know there are some beautiful Python frameworks like

    Django, Grok, WebPy, TurboGears

which support web development using Python, but mine is a basic requirement consisting of only 3 screens (pages): 

* 1st page  -  Login page (Redirects to 2nd page when login button is clicked) 
* 2nd page  -  Page with records in the form of a list, with an option for adding new records (Redirects to 3rd page when "Add Records" button is clicked)
* 3rd page  -  Page with fields, which are saved as records for the list on 2nd page  (After entering details and clicking Submit)

So, I have decided to develop the above functionality using Python **without** using any framework, so that I can have flexibility as well as write my own code. 

1. Is it possible to create a login page using Python without using a framework?

2. I haven't worked on web services and don't know the basics of web development in Python.

3. If possible, can you provide me an example on how to create a login page using Python and achieve the functionality described above?


From gandalf at shopzeus.com  Fri Oct  5 04:06:58 2012
From: gandalf at shopzeus.com (Laszlo Nagy)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 10:06:58 +0200
Subject: Reading properties file in Python, except using ConfigParser()
In-Reply-To: <d8dd6f46-aa8b-45d1-8345-fffd62c03e4a@googlegroups.com>
References: <d8dd6f46-aa8b-45d1-8345-fffd62c03e4a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <506E9522.10304@shopzeus.com>

On 2012-10-05 09:20, justmailharsh at gmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> How to read properties file in Python? I found ConfigParser() but it has a 'section' limitation, so looking for other alternatives.
http://wiki.python.org/moin/ConfigParserShootout



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Oct  5 04:11:22 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 09:11:22 +0100
Subject: final question: logging to stdout and updating files
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmo4r77m8Rjdsj3PhqCF0fDuxH2XEkh=rzKr40XWNA3-8w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1781.1349320295.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.1797.1349357671.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506d967a$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmo4r77m8Rjdsj3PhqCF0fDuxH2XEkh=rzKr40XWNA3-8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k4m4mn$mer$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 04/10/2012 15:27, Chris Angelico wrote:
> ensured that Australia won the next Test Match
>
> ChrisA
> may need to schedule surgical detongueing of his cheek
>

I'll arrange the cheek detonguing very cheaply after a comment like that :)

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Oct  5 04:12:54 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 10:12:54 +0200
Subject: How can I hide my stack frames in a TestCase subclass?
References: <52b17563-966c-46bc-bd77-da29e944c909@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1826.1349400392.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k4lum6$c9q$1@thue.elzevir.fr>
Message-ID: <k4m4pd$n4k$1@ger.gmane.org>

Manuel P?gouri?-Gonnard wrote:

> Peter Otten scripsit :
> 
>> David Banks wrote:
>>
>>> Note that the custom assert method causes a stack trace with two frames,
>>> one inside the method itself, whereas the stock unittest method only has
>>> one frame, the relevant line in the user's code.  How can I apply this
>>> frame-hiding behaviour to my own method?
>>
>> Move MyTestCase in a separate module and define a global variable
>>
>> __unittest = True
>>
> Hum, is it documented somewhere? I can't find it in the doc. Also, I'm
> curious to know what kind of magic it's using.

I took advantage of the fact that Python is open source and had a look into 
the source code ;)

$ cd /usr/lib/python2.7/unittest
$ grep frame *.py -C2
...
result.py-
result.py-    def _is_relevant_tb_level(self, tb):
result.py:        return '__unittest' in tb.tb_frame.f_globals
result.py-
...

$ grep _is_relevant_tb_level *.py -C5
result.py-
result.py-    def _exc_info_to_string(self, err, test):
result.py-        """Converts a sys.exc_info()-style tuple of values into a 
string."""
result.py-        exctype, value, tb = err
result.py-        # Skip test runner traceback levels
result.py:        while tb and self._is_relevant_tb_level(tb):
result.py-            tb = tb.tb_next
result.py-
...

And so on. I actually used an editor, not grep -- but you get the idea.



From sahnov.m at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 04:13:30 2012
From: sahnov.m at gmail.com (=?KOI8-R?B?88HIzs/XIO3JyMHJzA==?=)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 12:13:30 +0400
Subject: How to create a login screen using core python language without
	using any framework
In-Reply-To: <97fa2804-adda-428f-a78a-d9ab3e22e965@googlegroups.com>
References: <97fa2804-adda-428f-a78a-d9ab3e22e965@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPMbb2VRuM9A_jLZsY54sqjqeC02MBRQrL7r-Ns5hXvdt4CTWQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, you can write a simple wsgi app for that, and run it through simple
server, for example.

http://docs.python.org/library/wsgiref.html
05.10.2012 12:06 ???????????? <shivakrshn49 at gmail.com> ???????:

> I need to develop a simple login page using Python language with two
> fields and a button, like:
>
>     Username, Password, Login
>
> I know there are some beautiful Python frameworks like
>
>     Django, Grok, WebPy, TurboGears
>
> which support web development using Python, but mine is a basic
> requirement consisting of only 3 screens (pages):
>
> * 1st page  -  Login page (Redirects to 2nd page when login button is
> clicked)
> * 2nd page  -  Page with records in the form of a list, with an option for
> adding new records (Redirects to 3rd page when "Add Records" button is
> clicked)
> * 3rd page  -  Page with fields, which are saved as records for the list
> on 2nd page  (After entering details and clicking Submit)
>
> So, I have decided to develop the above functionality using Python
> **without** using any framework, so that I can have flexibility as well as
> write my own code.
>
> 1. Is it possible to create a login page using Python without using a
> framework?
>
> 2. I haven't worked on web services and don't know the basics of web
> development in Python.
>
> 3. If possible, can you provide me an example on how to create a login
> page using Python and achieve the functionality described above?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Oct  5 04:19:31 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 09:19:31 +0100
Subject: final question: logging to stdout and updating files
In-Reply-To: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF474166D71B1@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
References: <mailman.1781.1349320295.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.1797.1349357671.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506d967a$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmo4r77m8Rjdsj3PhqCF0fDuxH2XEkh=rzKr40XWNA3-8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF474166D71B1@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
Message-ID: <k4m560$qgv$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 04/10/2012 23:36, Prasad, Ramit wrote:
>
> Python is a product for Americans! ;) It should ensure America
> wins the Test Match....wait, do we even have a cricket team?

ChrisA could have been talking rugby, your rugby union team isn't't too 
bad for a bunch of amateurs, some of whom had to take unpaid leave to 
play in the world cup.  I don't think there's any rugby league sides in 
the USA.  Then there's speedway and...?

>
>>
>> Optimization really is that important, folks!
>>
>> ChrisA
>> may need to schedule surgical detongueing of his cheek
>
> Think we could get a group rate for c.l.p?

I'm sure that with some appropriate grovelling the PSF could arrange 
this.  Perhaps fly everybody to the UK for PyCon and get the surgery 
done on the NHS at the same time.

>
> Ramit
>

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From ashishjain.ash at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 04:20:28 2012
From: ashishjain.ash at gmail.com (ashishjain.ash at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 01:20:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to print html in python the normal way
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1791.1349350257.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <4d096ff3-e25f-400e-89c6-47483aaacc0d@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1791.1349350257.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <744677a5-8f47-4b03-b15f-2b3db6f0642d@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.
Apologies for my question not clear. Yes I am using django framework for it.

- Regards
Ashish


From ashishjain.ash at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 04:20:28 2012
From: ashishjain.ash at gmail.com (ashishjain.ash at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 01:20:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to print html in python the normal way
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1791.1349350257.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <4d096ff3-e25f-400e-89c6-47483aaacc0d@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1791.1349350257.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <744677a5-8f47-4b03-b15f-2b3db6f0642d@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.
Apologies for my question not clear. Yes I am using django framework for it.

- Regards
Ashish


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 04:29:02 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 01:29:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1807.1349374225.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1807.1349374225.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <383e8919-d40d-4913-9474-f65a3a63ba8c@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, 4 October 2012 23:40:47 UTC+5:30, Etienne Robillard  wrote:
> Dear list,
> 
> 
> 
> Due to lack of energy and resources i'm really sad to announce the removal of notmm from pypi and bitbucket. I deleted
> 
> also my account from bitbucket as it was not really useful for me. notmm will continue to be accessible from my master
> 
> site at http://gthc.org/dist/notmm until the server get down, as I cannot find money to pay for the hosting of notmm.org,
Can't you use Google Code?
> 
> neither anyone to encourage the project so it can grow further.  
> 
> 
> 
> I have tried to develop a coherent extension for Django using the open source model but I'm afraid to have been
> 
> bitten by its failure to encourage a free market over one dictated by profit and the use of cheap tricks to compete unfairly
> 
> with perhaps too much openness. I always will also continue to love and use free softwares but sadly it seems asking for a little
> 
> fairness is too much asked to competitors dedicated in stealing and subverting my work for their own advantages...
> 
> 
> 
> I therefore refuse to continue any longer being mocked by competitors asking excessive prices for having a broken Internet dictated by
> 
> a few companies and decide the content I should be visiting. 
> 
> 
> 
> Shall you have anything you wish saying I'll be open to discuss further on this list. I wish also to thanks the supporters
> 
> of the project who have invested time and energy into my business and dedication to the notmm project. 
> 
> 
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> 
> 
> Etienne 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Etienne Robillard
> 
> Green Tea Hackers Club
> 
> Fine Software Carpentry For The Rest Of Us!
> 
> http://gthc.org/
> 
> erob at gthcfoundation.org
> 
> 
> 
> "If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich." -John F. Kennedy



From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 04:31:29 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 01:31:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <d2939506-ae0e-40fc-a4fb-626ea99a941e@googlegroups.com>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidnEKReQiHNEHekFByxEENQbvOHff8L=AOk2Hir7J1dN4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1810.1349384780.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<307d5843-af17-4079-8a48-f8d7351a1d7b@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1813.1349386825.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<3e6de8b6-5ad5-4b29-92b4-9e957158ca5a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1824.1349398775.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<d2939506-ae0e-40fc-a4fb-626ea99a941e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e9746a06-809f-461a-910c-19b6c048cb0f@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, 5 October 2012 07:31:24 UTC+5:30, Mike  wrote:
> I agree with you, Ian. Thanks for all the help.  Now I get the below error.
> 
> 
> 
>   File "test.py", line 17, in <module>
> 
>     total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r[0].columns.itervalues())
> 
>   File "test.py", line 17, in <genexpr>
> 
>     total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r[0].columns.itervalues())
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks

You have missed the last line of the traceback (error)


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 04:31:29 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 01:31:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <d2939506-ae0e-40fc-a4fb-626ea99a941e@googlegroups.com>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidnEKReQiHNEHekFByxEENQbvOHff8L=AOk2Hir7J1dN4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1810.1349384780.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<307d5843-af17-4079-8a48-f8d7351a1d7b@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1813.1349386825.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<3e6de8b6-5ad5-4b29-92b4-9e957158ca5a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1824.1349398775.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<d2939506-ae0e-40fc-a4fb-626ea99a941e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e9746a06-809f-461a-910c-19b6c048cb0f@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, 5 October 2012 07:31:24 UTC+5:30, Mike  wrote:
> I agree with you, Ian. Thanks for all the help.  Now I get the below error.
> 
> 
> 
>   File "test.py", line 17, in <module>
> 
>     total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r[0].columns.itervalues())
> 
>   File "test.py", line 17, in <genexpr>
> 
>     total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r[0].columns.itervalues())
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks

You have missed the last line of the traceback (error)


From mpg at elzevir.fr  Fri Oct  5 04:50:45 2012
From: mpg at elzevir.fr (Manuel =?iso-8859-1?q?P=E9gouri=E9-Gonnard?=)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 10:50:45 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: How can I hide my stack frames in a TestCase subclass?
References: <52b17563-966c-46bc-bd77-da29e944c909@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1826.1349400392.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k4lum6$c9q$1@thue.elzevir.fr>
	<mailman.1841.1349424768.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k4m715$74m$1@thue.elzevir.fr>

Peter Otten scripsit :

> Manuel P?gouri?-Gonnard wrote:
>
>> Peter Otten scripsit :
>> 
>>> __unittest = True
>>>
>> Hum, is it documented somewhere? I can't find it in the doc. Also, I'm
>> curious to know what kind of magic it's using.
>
> I took advantage of the fact that Python is open source and had a look into 
> the source code ;)
>
Fair enough.

However, there was an implied question in the "documented" part: can
we rely on it? Isn't it considered an implementation detail (names
starting with underscores)?

> $ cd /usr/lib/python2.7/unittest
> $ grep frame *.py -C2
> ...
> result.py-
> result.py-    def _is_relevant_tb_level(self, tb):
> result.py:        return '__unittest' in tb.tb_frame.f_globals
> result.py-
> ...
>
> $ grep _is_relevant_tb_level *.py -C5
> result.py-
> result.py-    def _exc_info_to_string(self, err, test):
> result.py-        """Converts a sys.exc_info()-style tuple of values into a 
> string."""
> result.py-        exctype, value, tb = err
> result.py-        # Skip test runner traceback levels
> result.py:        while tb and self._is_relevant_tb_level(tb):
> result.py-            tb = tb.tb_next
> result.py-
> ...
>
> And so on. I actually used an editor, not grep -- but you get the idea.

Sure, thanks.

-- 
Manuel P?gouri?-Gonnard - http://people.math.jussieu.fr/~mpg/




From sanluca78 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 04:51:42 2012
From: sanluca78 at gmail.com (Luca Sanna)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 01:51:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: error bluetooth
Message-ID: <05fbbc10-241d-4976-a571-afbf5ac2c872@googlegroups.com>

the code is output the error of the ubuntu

from bluetooth import *

target_name = "My Phone"
target_address = None

nearby_devices = discover_devices()

for address in nearby_devices:
    if target_name == lookup_name( address ):
        target_address = address
        break

if target_address is not None:
    print "found target bluetooth device with address", target_address
else:
    print "could not find target bluetooth device nearby"

the error

luca at luca-XPS-M1330:~/py-temperature/py-temperature$ python bluetooth.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bluetooth.py", line 14, in <module>
    from bluetooth import *
  File "/home/luca/py-temperature/py-temperature/bluetooth.py", line 19, in <module>
    nearby_devices = discover_devices()
NameError: name 'discover_devices' is not defined
luca at luca-XPS-M1330:~/py-temperature/py-temperature$ 

it's a bug of the module? thanks


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Fri Oct  5 05:23:26 2012
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 5 Oct 2012 09:23:26 GMT
Subject: + in regular expression
References: <CALwzidnH2T5vsYT=nMvBmO4V6fmK+aMfHpxQDWrwArJ6aKtVew@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1838.1349414969.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <XnsA0E3689B3693duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:

> On 03Oct2012 21:17, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
>| On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 9:01 PM, contro opinion
>| <contropinion at gmail.com> wrote: 
>| > why the  "\s{6}+"  is not a regular pattern?
>| 
>| Use a group: "(?:\s{6})+"
> 
> Yeah, it is probably a precedence issue in the grammar.
> "(\s{6})+" is also accepted.

It's about syntax, not precedence, but the documentation doesn't really 
spell it out in full. Like most regex documentation it talks in woolly 
terms about special characters rather than giving a formal syntax.

A regular expression element may be followed by a quantifier. 
Quantifiers are '*', '+', '?', '{n}', '{n,m}' (and lazy quantifiers 
'*?', '+?', '{n,m}?'). There's nothing in the regex language which says 
you can follow an element with two quantifiers. Parentheses (grouping or 
non-grouping) around a regex turn that regex into a single element which 
is why you can then use another quantifier.

In bnf, I think Python's regexes would be somthing like:

re ::= union | simple-re
union ::= re | simple-re
simple-re ::= concatenation | basic-re
concatenation ::= simple-re basic-re
basic-re ::= element | element quantifier
element ::= group | nc-group | "." | "^" | "$" | char | charset
quantifier = "*" | "+" | "?" | "{" NUMBER "}" | "{" NUMBER "," NUMBER 
"}" |"*?" | "+?" | "{" NUMBER "," NUMBER "}?"
group ::= "(" re ")"
nc-group ::= "(?:" re ")"
char = <any non-special character> | "\" <any character>

... and so on. I didn't include charsets or all the (?...) extensions or 
special sequences.

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Oct  5 05:26:47 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:26:47 +0200
Subject: How can I hide my stack frames in a TestCase subclass?
References: <52b17563-966c-46bc-bd77-da29e944c909@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1826.1349400392.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k4lum6$c9q$1@thue.elzevir.fr>
	<mailman.1841.1349424768.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k4m715$74m$1@thue.elzevir.fr>
Message-ID: <k4m93u$sni$1@ger.gmane.org>

Manuel P?gouri?-Gonnard wrote:

> However, there was an implied question in the "documented" part: can
> we rely on it? Isn't it considered an implementation detail (names
> starting with underscores)?

"Not documented" was my implied answer.

I think you have a valid use case, though, so you could make a feature 
request for an official way to hide stack frames on the bugtracker 
http://bugs.python.org or the python-ideas mailing list.




From hansmu at xs4all.nl  Fri Oct  5 05:29:09 2012
From: hansmu at xs4all.nl (Hans Mulder)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:29:09 +0200
Subject: How to create a login screen using core python language without
	using any framework
In-Reply-To: <97fa2804-adda-428f-a78a-d9ab3e22e965@googlegroups.com>
References: <97fa2804-adda-428f-a78a-d9ab3e22e965@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <506ea86d$0$6969$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 5/10/12 10:03:56, shivakrshn49 at gmail.com wrote:
> I need to develop a simple login page using Python language with
> two fields and a button, like:
> 
>     Username, Password, Login
> 
> I know there are some beautiful Python frameworks like
> 
>     Django, Grok, WebPy, TurboGears
>
> which support web development using Python, but mine is a basic
> requirement consisting of only 3 screens (pages):
> 
> * 1st page  -  Login page (Redirects to 2nd page when login button
>   is clicked) 
> * 2nd page  -  Page with records in the form of a list, with an
>   option for adding new records (Redirects to 3rd page when "Add
>   Records" button is clicked)
> * 3rd page  -  Page with fields, which are saved as records for
>   the list on 2nd page  (After entering details and clicking Submit)

Implementing your application using any of those frameworks you
mentioned, would be easy.

> So, I have decided to develop the above functionality using Python
> **without** using any framework, so that I can have flexibility as
> well as write my own code. 

This is a bad idea.  You'll get much more flexibility using
an existing framework then you'd ever achieve by reinventing
the wheel on your own.  Especially if you have no experience
in this field.

> 1. Is it possible to create a login page using Python without
> using a framework?

Yes.

But it's a lot of work.  You'd effectively be rewriting all
the functionality you'd get for free with a framework.  And
it wouldn't be as flexible, because frameworks can flex in
directions that you didn't think of.

> 2. I haven't worked on web services and don't know the basics of
> web development in Python.

In that case, your chances of success are fairly slim.

> 3. If possible, can you provide me an example on how to create a
> login page using Python and achieve the functionality described
> above?

The frameworks you mentioned earlier come with tutorials.
These tutorials contain such examples.

You should really use an existing framework.  Once you're
aware of how much functionality you get out of a framework
(any of them), you wouldn't dream of rewriting all that
functionality on your own.


Hope this helps,

-- HansM







From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Fri Oct  5 06:03:38 2012
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:03:38 +0200
Subject: error bluetooth
In-Reply-To: <05fbbc10-241d-4976-a571-afbf5ac2c872@googlegroups.com>
References: <05fbbc10-241d-4976-a571-afbf5ac2c872@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <qsn2k9-0r1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 05.10.2012 10:51, schrieb Luca Sanna:
> the code is output the error of the ubuntu
>
> from bluetooth import *
>
[...]
>
> nearby_devices = discover_devices()
>
[...]
>
> the error
>
> luca at luca-XPS-M1330:~/py-temperature/py-temperature$ python bluetooth.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "bluetooth.py", line 14, in <module>
>      from bluetooth import *
>    File "/home/luca/py-temperature/py-temperature/bluetooth.py", line 19, in <module>
>      nearby_devices = discover_devices()
> NameError: name 'discover_devices' is not defined

The module "bluetooth" doesn't export any function called 
discover_devices(). You could try "dir(bluetooth)" or "help(bluetooth)" 
(do that from an interactive prompt) to find out what is in there. I 
don't know why you expect such a function there, if it is mentioned in 
the documentation or example code that would be a bug.

Uli



From d at davea.name  Fri Oct  5 06:33:18 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 06:33:18 -0400
Subject: error bluetooth
In-Reply-To: <05fbbc10-241d-4976-a571-afbf5ac2c872@googlegroups.com>
References: <05fbbc10-241d-4976-a571-afbf5ac2c872@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <506EB76E.1090308@davea.name>

On 10/05/2012 04:51 AM, Luca Sanna wrote:
> the code is output the error of the ubuntu
>
> from bluetooth import *
>
> target_name = "My Phone"
> target_address = None
>
> nearby_devices = discover_devices()
>
> for address in nearby_devices:
>     if target_name == lookup_name( address ):
>         target_address = address
>         break
>
> if target_address is not None:
>     print "found target bluetooth device with address", target_address
> else:
>     print "could not find target bluetooth device nearby"
>
> the error
>
> luca at luca-XPS-M1330:~/py-temperature/py-temperature$ python bluetooth.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "bluetooth.py", line 14, in <module>
>     from bluetooth import *
>   File "/home/luca/py-temperature/py-temperature/bluetooth.py", line 19, in <module>
>     nearby_devices = discover_devices()
> NameError: name 'discover_devices' is not defined
> luca at luca-XPS-M1330:~/py-temperature/py-temperature$ 
>
> it's a bug of the module? thanks

Perhaps you named your script bluetooth.py, and thus masked the module
bluetooth.py.  Pick a different name for your own sources.

-- 

DaveA



From animelovin at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 06:43:47 2012
From: animelovin at gmail.com (Etienne Robillard)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 06:43:47 -0400
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <506E487B.3010704@gmail.com>
References: <20121004141046.677dac1e8bf6dada0b6af6b3@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrrkQ0buTLs3q0GWMnTNjGuJOMiqh7dcGr_0A=ZTt-bFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121004181157.31c1083520ff8230242962e1@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmq6=5ehYSwbD6kbtyvns8zdMigLE+a+U0=HDjQmh59xuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121004191351.8c6fcfd8ddad7b6e6bfc02f2@gmail.com>
	<506E487B.3010704@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121005064347.10aa9146cc3c053b14dbeaca@gmail.com>

No. All past notmm licenses were and still ARE ISC licensed. The license fee
is simply because I'm shifting into commercial license for new releases, including
the newer 0.4.5 version... Pypi was not the authority source for notmm and 
neither anyone can claim the license was left blank, thats once again a form of plagiarism. 

Shall anyone is really serious about supporting the work i did then he'll want to pay a minimal fee to get
the proper license rights and can contact me off-list if he want to fork a branch
to github of google code.

Thanks,

Etienne 


On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 20:39:55 -0600
Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 10/04/2012 05:13 PM, Etienne Robillard wrote:
> > Thanks, but I tried all that and don't have much energy for continuing. If you're
> > serious about open source then maybe you can forward the thread to django-developers
> > and get some fundings to pay for a minimalistic fee to get the project maintained
> > by someone else, otherwise I'd prefer sticking with more profitable activities.
> 
> Nothing in the existing license prevents someone from taking the latest
> source and posting it back on Pypi as an unmaintained package.  Isn't
> that correct?
> 
> What are you referring to when you say "minimalistic fee."  Would this
> be a fee you require for transferring copyright assignment?  I know of
> no fee necessary for a new maintainer to take over should one wish to.
> Copyright assignment is not strictly necessary.
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


-- 
Etienne Robillard
Green Tea Hackers Club
Fine Software Carpentry For The Rest Of Us!
http://gthc.org/
erob at gthcfoundation.org


From i.hudooku at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 07:03:52 2012
From: i.hudooku at gmail.com (The Matchmaker)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 04:03:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: When was the last time you did something for the first time?
Message-ID: <a8943184-52aa-4dba-8a32-e2c284fa8373@q5g2000pbk.googlegroups.com>

What do you want to talk about today?


From animelovin at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 07:08:59 2012
From: animelovin at gmail.com (Etienne Robillard)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 07:08:59 -0400
Subject: When was the last time you did something for the first time?
In-Reply-To: <a8943184-52aa-4dba-8a32-e2c284fa8373@q5g2000pbk.googlegroups.com>
References: <a8943184-52aa-4dba-8a32-e2c284fa8373@q5g2000pbk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20121005070859.77f9c3b9840edaf58aea3a15@gmail.com>

Micro$oft :)


On Fri, 5 Oct 2012 04:03:52 -0700 (PDT)
The Matchmaker <i.hudooku at gmail.com> wrote:

> What do you want to talk about today?
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


-- 
Etienne Robillard
Green Tea Hackers Club
Fine Software Carpentry For The Rest Of Us!
http://gthc.org/
erob at gthcfoundation.org


From gd.usenet at spamfence.net  Fri Oct  5 07:32:10 2012
From: gd.usenet at spamfence.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther?= Dietrich)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:32:10 +0200
Subject: Reading properties file in Python, except using ConfigParser()
References: <d8dd6f46-aa8b-45d1-8345-fffd62c03e4a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <gd.usenet-466E0C.13321005102012@dwarf.main.lan>

justmailharsh at gmail.com wrote:

>How to read properties file in Python? I found ConfigParser() but it has a 
>'section' limitation, so looking for other alternatives.

Have a look at PyYAML.



Best regards,

G?nther


From hansmu at xs4all.nl  Fri Oct  5 07:32:49 2012
From: hansmu at xs4all.nl (Hans Mulder)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:32:49 +0200
Subject: error bluetooth
In-Reply-To: <05fbbc10-241d-4976-a571-afbf5ac2c872@googlegroups.com>
References: <05fbbc10-241d-4976-a571-afbf5ac2c872@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <506ec562$0$6942$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 5/10/12 10:51:42, Luca Sanna wrote:

> from bluetooth import *

[......]

> luca at luca-XPS-M1330:~/py-temperature/py-temperature$ python bluetooth.py

When you say "from bluetooth import *", Python will find a file
name "bluetooth.py" and import stuff from that file.  Since your
script happens to be named "bluetooth.py", Python will import
your script, thinking it is a module.

> it's a bug of the module?

You've chosen the wrong file name.  Rename your script.


Hope this helps,

-- HansM


From sanluca78 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 08:03:00 2012
From: sanluca78 at gmail.com (Luca Sanna)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 05:03:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: error bluetooth
In-Reply-To: <506ec562$0$6942$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <05fbbc10-241d-4976-a571-afbf5ac2c872@googlegroups.com>
	<506ec562$0$6942$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <289b78fd-6015-4c66-9967-37727120a440@googlegroups.com>

Il giorno venerd? 5 ottobre 2012 13:33:14 UTC+2, Hans Mulder ha scritto:
> On 5/10/12 10:51:42, Luca Sanna wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > from bluetooth import *
> 
> 
> 
> [......]
> 
> 
> 
> > luca at luca-XPS-M1330:~/py-temperature/py-temperature$ python bluetooth.py
> 
> 
> 
> When you say "from bluetooth import *", Python will find a file
> 
> name "bluetooth.py" and import stuff from that file.  Since your
> 
> script happens to be named "bluetooth.py", Python will import
> 
> your script, thinking it is a module.
> 
> 
> 
> > it's a bug of the module?
> 
> 
> 
> You've chosen the wrong file name.  Rename your script.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> 
> 
> -- HansM



i'm sorry, it's ok the rename file in bt.py

how do I send a ping in bluetooth?
because android phones are not always visible.
I can not find the ping command
thanks


From eldiener at tropicsoft.invalid  Fri Oct  5 08:06:41 2012
From: eldiener at tropicsoft.invalid (Edward Diener)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 08:06:41 -0400
Subject: Coexistence of Python 2.x and 3.x on same OS
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1711.1349113050.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <k4a5m9$l2k$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.1681.1349033884.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k4b1av$rgb$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.1711.1349113050.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k4migh$c2v$1@dont-email.me>

On 10/1/2012 1:32 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 23:06:04 -0400, Edward Diener
> <eldiener at tropicsoft.invalid> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>
>> My thought is a program distributed by Python which finds the versions
>> of Python on an OS, lets the end-user choose which version should be
>> invoked when Python is invoked, and does whatever is necessary to make
>> that version the default version.
>>
> 	Which wouldn't be usable on any system that has to boot/process
> unattended, and run's Python scripts for configuration set-up.

I can understand that but my use of Python on Windows is not that case. 
I simply want to be able to choose which version of Python runs when it 
is invoked, when I have multiple versions installed. Surely that is a 
very common case for end-users running 'python' or invoking some script 
which is associated with python.

>
> 	Making a version "default" pretty much means being able to rewrite
> the PATH environment variable... And I've seen too many messes made by
> some software already (including once having two generations of Python
> showing up in one PATH!)

The PATH environment is constantly changing whether in Linux or Windows. 
Claiming that this is too dangerous" is silly.



From eldiener at tropicsoft.invalid  Fri Oct  5 08:15:30 2012
From: eldiener at tropicsoft.invalid (Edward Diener)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 08:15:30 -0400
Subject: Coexistence of Python 2.x and 3.x on same OS
In-Reply-To: <e8jas.240866$uJ4.171815@fx18.am4>
References: <k4a5m9$l2k$1@dont-email.me> <e8jas.240866$uJ4.171815@fx18.am4>
Message-ID: <k4mj13$fof$1@dont-email.me>

On 10/1/2012 12:02 PM, Alister wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 15:14:17 -0400, Edward Diener wrote:
>
>> Has there been any official software that allows both the Python 2.x and
>> 3.x releases to coexist on the same OS so that the end-user can easily
>> switch between them when invoking Python scripts after each has been
>> installed to their own directories/folders ?
>>
>> I know of some unoffical solutions, but they require lots of tweaks.
>> Given the vagaries of the different OSs on which Python can run I am
>> hoping for some offical solution which will work on any of the most
>> popular OSs ( Windows, Linux, Mac ).
>>
>> The situation is so confusing on Windows, where the file associations,
>> registry entries, and other internal software which allows a given
>> Python release to work properly when invoking Python is so complicated,
>> that I have given up on trying to install more than one Python release
>> and finding a relaible, foolproof way of switching between them. So
>> although I would like to use the latest 3.x series on Windows I have
>> decide to stick with the latest 2.x series instead because much software
>> using Python does not support 3.x yet.
>
> on my fedora system it was a simple matter of:-
> #> yum install python3
>
> to use python 3 i specify it in my shebang line
>
> #!/usr/bun/env python3
>
> Simple
>
> Not sure about Windoze though (Although from memory the install asks
> where to install so should not be a major issue)

Windows installs of Python do not distinguish releases by Pythonx(.x) 
but just install different versions of Python in different directories. 
However one can make links to the different versions based on their 
release numbers, and that would allow a shebang line work if it was 
supported.




From eldiener at tropicsoft.invalid  Fri Oct  5 08:16:36 2012
From: eldiener at tropicsoft.invalid (Edward Diener)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 08:16:36 -0400
Subject: Coexistence of Python 2.x and 3.x on same OS
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1681.1349033884.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <k4a5m9$l2k$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.1681.1349033884.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k4mj34$fof$2@dont-email.me>

On 9/30/2012 3:38 PM, Andrew Berg wrote:
> On 2012.09.30 14:14, Edward Diener wrote:
>> The situation is so confusing on Windows, where the file associations,
>> registry entries, and other internal software which allows a given
>> Python release to work properly when invoking Python is so complicated,
>> that I have given up on trying to install more than one Python release
>> and finding a relaible, foolproof way of switching between them. So
>> although I would like to use the latest 3.x series on Windows I have
>> decide to stick with the latest 2.x series instead because much software
>> using Python does not support 3.x yet.
>
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0397/
>
> Unix-based OSes should already obey the shebang line, and on Windows,
> there's py.exe in 3.3 that will launch the intended version based on
> that shebang line. While I was using the alpha/beta versions of 3.3, I
> had no problems invoking either 3.2 or 3.3 with the shebang line on Windows.
>

Thanks ! I will get this and hopefully it will do what I want.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Oct  5 08:29:13 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:29:13 +0100
Subject: Coexistence of Python 2.x and 3.x on same OS
In-Reply-To: <k4mj13$fof$1@dont-email.me>
References: <k4a5m9$l2k$1@dont-email.me> <e8jas.240866$uJ4.171815@fx18.am4>
	<k4mj13$fof$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <k4mjqb$ibu$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 05/10/2012 13:15, Edward Diener wrote:
> On 10/1/2012 12:02 PM, Alister wrote:
>> On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 15:14:17 -0400, Edward Diener wrote:
>>
>>> Has there been any official software that allows both the Python 2.x and
>>> 3.x releases to coexist on the same OS so that the end-user can easily
>>> switch between them when invoking Python scripts after each has been
>>> installed to their own directories/folders ?
>>>
>>> I know of some unoffical solutions, but they require lots of tweaks.
>>> Given the vagaries of the different OSs on which Python can run I am
>>> hoping for some offical solution which will work on any of the most
>>> popular OSs ( Windows, Linux, Mac ).
>>>
>>> The situation is so confusing on Windows, where the file associations,
>>> registry entries, and other internal software which allows a given
>>> Python release to work properly when invoking Python is so complicated,
>>> that I have given up on trying to install more than one Python release
>>> and finding a relaible, foolproof way of switching between them. So
>>> although I would like to use the latest 3.x series on Windows I have
>>> decide to stick with the latest 2.x series instead because much software
>>> using Python does not support 3.x yet.
>>
>> on my fedora system it was a simple matter of:-
>> #> yum install python3
>>
>> to use python 3 i specify it in my shebang line
>>
>> #!/usr/bun/env python3
>>
>> Simple
>>
>> Not sure about Windoze though (Although from memory the install asks
>> where to install so should not be a major issue)
>
> Windows installs of Python do not distinguish releases by Pythonx(.x)
> but just install different versions of Python in different directories.
> However one can make links to the different versions based on their
> release numbers, and that would allow a shebang line work if it was
> supported.
>
>

Please read this http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0397/ and let us 
know whether or not it fits your needs on Windows.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 09:03:20 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 06:03:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: When was the last time you did something for the first time?
In-Reply-To: <a8943184-52aa-4dba-8a32-e2c284fa8373@q5g2000pbk.googlegroups.com>
References: <a8943184-52aa-4dba-8a32-e2c284fa8373@q5g2000pbk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <174ae38f-f841-437d-9f69-e0e00ce3b6ba@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, 5 October 2012 16:33:52 UTC+5:30, The Matchmaker  wrote:
> What do you want to talk about today?

Nothing.


From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 09:11:31 2012
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 09:11:31 -0400
Subject: How to create a login screen using core python language without
	using any framework
In-Reply-To: <506ea86d$0$6969$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <97fa2804-adda-428f-a78a-d9ab3e22e965@googlegroups.com>
	<506ea86d$0$6969$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+xb5eapqdfuGy1JgBzwVSieGaJLtF+JwHmMYziVi0bEWQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:29 AM, Hans Mulder <hansmu at xs4all.nl> wrote:
> On 5/10/12 10:03:56, shivakrshn49 at gmail.com wrote:
>> I need to develop a simple login page using Python language with
>> two fields and a button, like:
>>
>>     Username, Password, Login
>>
>> I know there are some beautiful Python frameworks like
>>
>>     Django, Grok, WebPy, TurboGears
>>
>> which support web development using Python, but mine is a basic
>> requirement consisting of only 3 screens (pages):
>>
>> * 1st page  -  Login page (Redirects to 2nd page when login button
>>   is clicked)
>> * 2nd page  -  Page with records in the form of a list, with an
>>   option for adding new records (Redirects to 3rd page when "Add
>>   Records" button is clicked)
>> * 3rd page  -  Page with fields, which are saved as records for
>>   the list on 2nd page  (After entering details and clicking Submit)
>
> Implementing your application using any of those frameworks you
> mentioned, would be easy.
>
>> So, I have decided to develop the above functionality using Python
>> **without** using any framework, so that I can have flexibility as
>> well as write my own code.
>
> This is a bad idea.  You'll get much more flexibility using
> an existing framework then you'd ever achieve by reinventing
> the wheel on your own.  Especially if you have no experience
> in this field.
>
>> 1. Is it possible to create a login page using Python without
>> using a framework?
>
> Yes.
>
> But it's a lot of work.  You'd effectively be rewriting all
> the functionality you'd get for free with a framework.  And
> it wouldn't be as flexible, because frameworks can flex in
> directions that you didn't think of.
>
>> 2. I haven't worked on web services and don't know the basics of
>> web development in Python.
>
> In that case, your chances of success are fairly slim.
>
>> 3. If possible, can you provide me an example on how to create a
>> login page using Python and achieve the functionality described
>> above?
>
> The frameworks you mentioned earlier come with tutorials.
> These tutorials contain such examples.
>
> You should really use an existing framework.  Once you're
> aware of how much functionality you get out of a framework
> (any of them), you wouldn't dream of rewriting all that
> functionality on your own.

I totally agree about using a framework.  You say you want a 'simple'
3 page website.  Why do you think it is simple?  You say you don't
have any skills at creating websites with python.  From your
description, you will need to build a directory of entries, a form,
and attach it to a database, so that means you also need to understand
sql (or something!). You need to display individual records I imagine.
 Do you need to edit them after they are created?  How are you going
to manage the accounts?  Will you create them?  Will you let the
visitor create an account?  Where will you store the account
information?  Do different accounts have different permissions?

If you install django (for instance), go through the online tutorials
in about 2 hours, you could probably build your specification in a
day.  Even if you have problems there is an active django mailing list
to ask specific questions.  I haven't tried the other frameworks, but
there might be similar help available for them.


-- 
Joel Goldstick


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 09:32:28 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 06:32:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: final question: logging to stdout and updating files
In-Reply-To: <506d967a$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.1781.1349320295.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.1797.1349357671.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506d967a$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <943555c6-2d99-4f20-9177-653f60bbfb1a@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, 4 October 2012 19:30:26 UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 06:34:28 -0700, Ramchandra Apte wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > "Optimize code always even if it causes bugs" - Ramchandra Apte, 2001-
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you've just added yourself into my list of people whose advice 
> 
> should always be ignored.
> 
> 
> 
> That is *terrible* advice. But if you insist on following it, you can 
> 
> optimize *any* Python program to this:
> 
> 
> 
> # === start code ===
> 
> pass  # this line is optional
> 
> # === end code ===
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There you go. The most heavily optimized, fastest Python program in 
> 
> existence. Sure, it has a few bugs, but boy is it fast!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Steven

Please disclose the list of people.

This email is subject to important disclosures available at loobafoobajo.ke/legal.html
LOOBA FOOBA JOKE COMPANY MAKES NO WARRANTIES ABOUT THIS EMAIL
Read at your risk - you may die from reading this email. ;-P


From mike20007 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 09:39:15 2012
From: mike20007 at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 06:39:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <12a372ba-8809-4fff-bca5-55a03e61ca82@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 4, 2012 4:52:50 PM UTC-4, Mike wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> 
> 
> I am new to python and am getting the data from hbase. 
> 
> I am trying to do sum on the column as below
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> scanner = client.scannerOpenWithStop("tab", "10", "1000", ["cf:col1"])
> 
> total = 0.0
> 
> r = client.scannerGet(scanner)
> 
> while r:
> 
>   for k in (r[0].columns):
> 
>     total += float(r[0].columns[k].value)
> 
>   r = client.scannerGet(scanner)
> 
> 
> 
> print total
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know of better (faster) way to do sum?
> 
> 
> 
> Any thoughts please?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks

Sorry about that. Here you go

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 17, in <module>
    total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r[0].columns.itervalues())
  File "test.py", line 17, in <genexpr>
    total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r[0].columns.itervalues())
IndexError: list index out of range


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 09:41:43 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 06:41:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <12a372ba-8809-4fff-bca5-55a03e61ca82@googlegroups.com>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<12a372ba-8809-4fff-bca5-55a03e61ca82@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <04412893-e6ba-43cc-8d9c-7867f82af4d1@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, 5 October 2012 19:09:15 UTC+5:30, Mike  wrote:
> On Thursday, October 4, 2012 4:52:50 PM UTC-4, Mike wrote:
> 
> > Hi All,
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > I am new to python and am getting the data from hbase. 
> 
> > 
> 
> > I am trying to do sum on the column as below
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > scanner = client.scannerOpenWithStop("tab", "10", "1000", ["cf:col1"])
> 
> > 
> 
> > total = 0.0
> 
> > 
> 
> > r = client.scannerGet(scanner)
> 
> > 
> 
> > while r:
> 
> > 
> 
> >   for k in (r[0].columns):
> 
> > 
> 
> >     total += float(r[0].columns[k].value)
> 
> > 
> 
> >   r = client.scannerGet(scanner)
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > print total
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Do you know of better (faster) way to do sum?
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Any thoughts please?
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry about that. Here you go
> 
> 
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> 
>   File "test.py", line 17, in <module>
> 
>     total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r[0].columns.itervalues())
> 
>   File "test.py", line 17, in <genexpr>
> 
>     total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r[0].columns.itervalues())
> 
> IndexError: list index out of range

the variable "r" is an empty list


From mike20007 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 09:47:12 2012
From: mike20007 at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 06:47:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <04412893-e6ba-43cc-8d9c-7867f82af4d1@googlegroups.com>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<12a372ba-8809-4fff-bca5-55a03e61ca82@googlegroups.com>
	<04412893-e6ba-43cc-8d9c-7867f82af4d1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d52e3cdb-9568-4963-8ff2-09e619f984c4@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, October 5, 2012 9:41:44 AM UTC-4, Ramchandra Apte wrote:
> On Friday, 5 October 2012 19:09:15 UTC+5:30, Mike  wrote:
> 
> > On Thursday, October 4, 2012 4:52:50 PM UTC-4, Mike wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > > Hi All,
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > I am new to python and am getting the data from hbase. 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > I am trying to do sum on the column as below
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > scanner = client.scannerOpenWithStop("tab", "10", "1000", ["cf:col1"])
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > total = 0.0
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > r = client.scannerGet(scanner)
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > while r:
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > >   for k in (r[0].columns):
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > >     total += float(r[0].columns[k].value)
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > >   r = client.scannerGet(scanner)
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > print total
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > Do you know of better (faster) way to do sum?
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > Any thoughts please?
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > Thanks
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Sorry about that. Here you go
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> 
> > 
> 
> >   File "test.py", line 17, in <module>
> 
> > 
> 
> >     total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r[0].columns.itervalues())
> 
> > 
> 
> >   File "test.py", line 17, in <genexpr>
> 
> > 
> 
> >     total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r[0].columns.itervalues())
> 
> > 
> 
> > IndexError: list index out of range
> 
> 
> 
> the variable "r" is an empty list

Here is the actual code.

scanner = client.scannerOpenWithStop("tab", "10", "1000", ["cf:col1"]) 
next_r = functools.partial(client.scannerGet, scanner)
total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r[0].columns.itervalues())


Scanner does have rows.

Are we missing something please?

Thanks


From mike20007 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 09:59:07 2012
From: mike20007 at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 06:59:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to call python script from web.
Message-ID: <4bf240e0-26a2-4470-9e8e-badc8d8ae464@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I can call the php script from browser assuming apache web server exists.

How can I call the python script like php script?

Any thought?

Thanks


From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 10:23:32 2012
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 10:23:32 -0400
Subject: How to call python script from web.
In-Reply-To: <4bf240e0-26a2-4470-9e8e-badc8d8ae464@googlegroups.com>
References: <4bf240e0-26a2-4470-9e8e-badc8d8ae464@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+xJnagosBcyqWWiD8spaLTP0Whhfeqac6h4EaKCVv77wQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Mike <mike20007 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I can call the php script from browser assuming apache web server exists.
>
> How can I call the python script like php script?
>
> Any thought?
>
> Thanks
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

A popular way for apache is to use mod_wsgi. http://code.google.com/p/modwsgi/



-- 
Joel Goldstick


From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 10:41:33 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 07:41:33 -0700
Subject: How to create a login screen using core python language without
	using any framework
In-Reply-To: <CAPM-O+xb5eapqdfuGy1JgBzwVSieGaJLtF+JwHmMYziVi0bEWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <97fa2804-adda-428f-a78a-d9ab3e22e965@googlegroups.com>
	<506ea86d$0$6969$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
	<CAPM-O+xb5eapqdfuGy1JgBzwVSieGaJLtF+JwHmMYziVi0bEWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <506EF19D.8070600@gmail.com>

On 12-10-05 06:11 AM, Joel Goldstick wrote:

> I totally agree about using a framework.  You say you want a 'simple'
> 3 page website.  Why do you think it is simple?  You say you don't
> have any skills at creating websites with python.  From your
> description, you will need to build a directory of entries, a form,
> and attach it to a database, so that means you also need to understand
> sql (or something!). You need to display individual records I imagine.
>   Do you need to edit them after they are created?  How are you going
> to manage the accounts?  Will you create them?  Will you let the
> visitor create an account?  Where will you store the account
> information?  Do different accounts have different permissions?
>
Not to mention security. Frameworks like Django provide protection 
against things like:

* CSRF (Cross Site Request Forgery)
* XSS ((X)Cross Site Scripting)
* SQL injection

As well as others. For a comprehensive list of protection that Django 
offers, check out https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/security/.

-- 
Demian Brecht
@demianbrecht
http://demianbrecht.github.com


From torriem at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 11:10:48 2012
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 09:10:48 -0600
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <20121005064347.10aa9146cc3c053b14dbeaca@gmail.com>
References: <20121004141046.677dac1e8bf6dada0b6af6b3@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrrkQ0buTLs3q0GWMnTNjGuJOMiqh7dcGr_0A=ZTt-bFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121004181157.31c1083520ff8230242962e1@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmq6=5ehYSwbD6kbtyvns8zdMigLE+a+U0=HDjQmh59xuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121004191351.8c6fcfd8ddad7b6e6bfc02f2@gmail.com>
	<506E487B.3010704@gmail.com>
	<20121005064347.10aa9146cc3c053b14dbeaca@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <506EF878.5030303@gmail.com>

On 10/05/2012 04:43 AM, Etienne Robillard wrote:
> No. All past notmm licenses were and still ARE ISC licensed. The license fee
> is simply because I'm shifting into commercial license for new releases, including
> the newer 0.4.5 version... Pypi was not the authority source for notmm and 
> neither anyone can claim the license was left blank, thats once again a form of plagiarism. 
> 
> Shall anyone is really serious about supporting the work i did then he'll want to pay a minimal fee to get
> the proper license rights and can contact me off-list if he want to fork a branch
> to github of google code.

Someone certainly could fork any past ISC version and proceed from
there.  That is simply my point.  Without any license fees and without
any accusation of "plagiarism."  Indeed it wouldn't be plagiarism
because your name would still be on it, and copyright assigned to you.

I don't know what you are talking about with the plagiarism thing.  If
there indeed was a tarball out there with an empty license file all that
would do would be to prevent the downloader from legally doing
*anything* with the file.  That's all the original poster was saying.

We're just trying to be clear on the terms here, not accusing you of
anything, nor trying to denigrate all your hard work.


From hchapa at lrgvdc911.org  Fri Oct  5 11:17:25 2012
From: hchapa at lrgvdc911.org (Hector Chapa)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 10:17:25 -0500
Subject: When was the last time you did something for the first time?
In-Reply-To: <174ae38f-f841-437d-9f69-e0e00ce3b6ba@googlegroups.com>
References: <a8943184-52aa-4dba-8a32-e2c284fa8373@q5g2000pbk.googlegroups.com>
	<174ae38f-f841-437d-9f69-e0e00ce3b6ba@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAImcUFM1IZROswqXRIrL5tDCgAAAEAAAAP/JNqFGVwtNmkOcJpH2/V4BAAAAAA==@lrgvdc911.org>

I learn trigonometry

-----Original Message-----
From: Ramchandra Apte [mailto:maniandram01 at gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 8:03 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: When was the last time you did something for the first time?

On Friday, 5 October 2012 16:33:52 UTC+5:30, The Matchmaker  wrote:
> What do you want to talk about today?

Nothing.




From driscoll at cs.wisc.edu  Fri Oct  5 11:27:00 2012
From: driscoll at cs.wisc.edu (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 10:27:00 -0500
Subject: + in regular expression
In-Reply-To: <XnsA0E3689B3693duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
References: <CALwzidnH2T5vsYT=nMvBmO4V6fmK+aMfHpxQDWrwArJ6aKtVew@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1838.1349414969.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<XnsA0E3689B3693duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <506EFC44.40508@cs.wisc.edu>

On 10/05/2012 04:23 AM, Duncan Booth wrote:
> A regular expression element may be followed by a quantifier.
> Quantifiers are '*', '+', '?', '{n}', '{n,m}' (and lazy quantifiers
> '*?', '+?', '{n,m}?'). There's nothing in the regex language which says
> you can follow an element with two quantifiers.
In fact, *you* did -- the first sentence of that paragraph! :-)

\s is a regex, so you can follow it with a quantifier and get \s{6}. 
That's also a regex, so you should be able to follow it with a quantifier.

I can understand that you can create a grammar that excludes it. I'm 
actually really interested to know if anyone knows whether this was a 
deliberate decision and, if so, what the reason is. (And if not -- 
should it be considered a (low priority) bug?)

Was it because such patterns often reveal a mistake? Because "\s{6}+" 
has other meanings in different regex syntaxes and the designers didn't 
want confusion? Because it was simpler to parse that way? Because the 
"hey you recognize regular expressions by converting it to a finite 
automaton" story is a lie in most real-world regex implementations (in 
part because they're not actually regular expressions) and repeated 
quantifiers cause problems with the parsing techniques that actually get 
used?

Evan



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 11:29:39 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 09:29:39 -0600
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <20121004205643.b92cbe656521996843cf01fe@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1807.1349374225.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506e282e$0$1726$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzidmXYhs2aK3uzc82hzZNYX6tVDb3Vad2a2Foy5OE9jxk1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121004205643.b92cbe656521996843cf01fe@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkAfpWL=v=UM_Ay6-CQYLptRmfMRnp1CYV0YFfkuVjmpw@mail.gmail.com>

On Oct 4, 2012 6:56 PM, "Etienne Robillard" <animelovin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You probably have a old tarball or something...

Not unless you've replaced it since I made my post, as I had just
downloaded it to check the license.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20121005/48960aab/attachment.html>

From driscoll at cs.wisc.edu  Fri Oct  5 11:31:26 2012
From: driscoll at cs.wisc.edu (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 10:31:26 -0500
Subject: + in regular expression
In-Reply-To: <506EFC44.40508@cs.wisc.edu>
References: <CALwzidnH2T5vsYT=nMvBmO4V6fmK+aMfHpxQDWrwArJ6aKtVew@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1838.1349414969.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<XnsA0E3689B3693duncanbooth@127.0.0.1> <506EFC44.40508@cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <506EFD4E.9030100@cs.wisc.edu>

On 10/05/2012 10:27 AM, Evan Driscoll wrote:
> On 10/05/2012 04:23 AM, Duncan Booth wrote:
>> A regular expression element may be followed by a quantifier.
>> Quantifiers are '*', '+', '?', '{n}', '{n,m}' (and lazy quantifiers
>> '*?', '+?', '{n,m}?'). There's nothing in the regex language which says
>> you can follow an element with two quantifiers.
> In fact, *you* did -- the first sentence of that paragraph! :-)
>
> \s is a regex, so you can follow it with a quantifier and get \s{6}. 
> That's also a regex, so you should be able to follow it with a 
> quantifier.
OK, I guess this isn't true... you said a "regular expression *element*" 
can be followed by a quantifier. I just took what I usually see as part 
of a regular expression and read into your post something it didn't 
quite say. Still, the rest of mine applies.

Evan



From animelovin at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 11:51:26 2012
From: animelovin at gmail.com (Etienne Robillard)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 11:51:26 -0400
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidkAfpWL=v=UM_Ay6-CQYLptRmfMRnp1CYV0YFfkuVjmpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1807.1349374225.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506e282e$0$1726$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzidmXYhs2aK3uzc82hzZNYX6tVDb3Vad2a2Foy5OE9jxk1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121004205643.b92cbe656521996843cf01fe@gmail.com>
	<CALwzidkAfpWL=v=UM_Ay6-CQYLptRmfMRnp1CYV0YFfkuVjmpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121005115126.615ccff8999a8bccea387136@gmail.com>

On Fri, 5 Oct 2012 09:29:39 -0600
Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Oct 4, 2012 6:56 PM, "Etienne Robillard" <animelovin at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > You probably have a old tarball or something...
> 
> Not unless you've replaced it since I made my post, as I had just
> downloaded it to check the license.

The 0.4.4 release is old, however, so you might really got a wrong tarball. :-)

Cheers,
Etienne



-- 
Etienne Robillard
Green Tea Hackers Club
Fine Software Carpentry For The Rest Of Us!
http://gthc.org/
erob at gthcfoundation.org


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Oct  5 12:07:47 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 17:07:47 +0100
Subject: + in regular expression
In-Reply-To: <506EFC44.40508@cs.wisc.edu>
References: <CALwzidnH2T5vsYT=nMvBmO4V6fmK+aMfHpxQDWrwArJ6aKtVew@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1838.1349414969.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<XnsA0E3689B3693duncanbooth@127.0.0.1> <506EFC44.40508@cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <506F05D3.2020306@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-05 16:27, Evan Driscoll wrote:
> On 10/05/2012 04:23 AM, Duncan Booth wrote:
>> A regular expression element may be followed by a quantifier.
>> Quantifiers are '*', '+', '?', '{n}', '{n,m}' (and lazy quantifiers
>> '*?', '+?', '{n,m}?'). There's nothing in the regex language which says
>> you can follow an element with two quantifiers.
> In fact, *you* did -- the first sentence of that paragraph! :-)
>
> \s is a regex, so you can follow it with a quantifier and get \s{6}.
> That's also a regex, so you should be able to follow it with a quantifier.
>
> I can understand that you can create a grammar that excludes it. I'm
> actually really interested to know if anyone knows whether this was a
> deliberate decision and, if so, what the reason is. (And if not --
> should it be considered a (low priority) bug?)
>
> Was it because such patterns often reveal a mistake? Because "\s{6}+"
> has other meanings in different regex syntaxes and the designers didn't
> want confusion? Because it was simpler to parse that way? Because the
> "hey you recognize regular expressions by converting it to a finite
> automaton" story is a lie in most real-world regex implementations (in
> part because they're not actually regular expressions) and repeated
> quantifiers cause problems with the parsing techniques that actually get
> used?
>
You rarely want to repeat a repeated element. It can also result in 
catastrophic
backtracking unless you're _very_ careful.

In many other regex implementations (including mine), "*+", "*+" and
"?+" are possessive quantifiers, much as "??", "*?" and "??" are lazy
quantifiers.

You could, of course, ask why adding "?" after a quantifier doesn't
make it optional, e.g. why r"\s{6}?" doesn't mean the same as
r"(?:\s{6})?", or why r"\s{0,6}?" doesn't mean the same as
r"(?:\s{0,6})?".


From michael at stroeder.com  Fri Oct  5 12:24:13 2012
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 18:24:13 +0200
Subject: [fcgi.py] Force cache upgrade?
In-Reply-To: <1nfc68di85mfuaqm2gggura2bsio7gg4ke@4ax.com>
References: <nr6c6857lbd0avhfeu5oqng57kd6q6rpr5@4ax.com>
	<1nfc68di85mfuaqm2gggura2bsio7gg4ke@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <k4n1jc$dci$1@dont-email.me>

Gilles wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Sep 2012 23:57:14 +0200, Gilles <nospam at nospam.com> wrote:
>> I guess the FastCGI server (Flup) only updates its cache every so
>> often. Do I need to type a command to force Flup to recompile the
>> Python script?
> 
> Turns out that, yes, mod_fcgid is configured to reload a script only
> after some time or some number of hits,

Well, that's the whole point of using FastCGI:
Have a long-running process for better performance.

Ciao, Michael.



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Oct  5 13:39:53 2012
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 10:39:53 -0700
Subject: instance.attribute lookup
Message-ID: <506F1B69.8030800@stoneleaf.us>

There is a StackOverflow question [1] that points to this on-line book 
[2] which has a five-step sequence for looking up attributes:

 > When retrieving an attribute from an object (print
 > objectname.attrname) Python follows these steps:
 >
 > 1. If attrname is a special (i.e. Python-provided) attribute for
 > objectname, return it.
 >
 > 2. Check objectname.__class__.__dict__ for attrname. If it exists and
 > is a data-descriptor, return the descriptor result. Search all bases
 > of objectname.__class__ for the same case.
 >
 > 3. Check objectname.__dict__ for attrname, and return if found. If
 > objectname is a class, search its bases too. If it is a class and a
 > descriptor exists in it or its bases, return the descriptor result.
 >
 > 4. Check objectname.__class__.__dict__ for attrname. If it exists and
 > is a non-data descriptor, return the descriptor result. If it exists,
 > and is not a descriptor, just return it. If it exists and is a data
 > descriptor, we shouldn't be here because we would have returned at
 > point 2. Search all bases of objectname.__class__ for same case.
 >
 > 5. Raise AttributeError

I'm thinking step 1 is flat-out wrong and doesn't exist.  Does anybody 
know otherwise?

~Ethan~

[1]
http://stackoverflow.com/q/10536539/208880

[2]
http://www.cafepy.com/article/python_attributes_and_methods/ch01s05.html


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Oct  5 14:52:13 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 14:52:13 -0400
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <d52e3cdb-9568-4963-8ff2-09e619f984c4@googlegroups.com>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<12a372ba-8809-4fff-bca5-55a03e61ca82@googlegroups.com>
	<04412893-e6ba-43cc-8d9c-7867f82af4d1@googlegroups.com>
	<d52e3cdb-9568-4963-8ff2-09e619f984c4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <506F2C5D.3030000@udel.edu>

On 10/5/2012 9:47 AM, Mike wrote:
> On Friday, October 5, 2012 9:41:44 AM UTC-4, Ramchandra Apte wrote:
>> On Friday, 5 October 2012 19:09:15 UTC+5:30, Mike  wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, October 4, 2012 4:52:50 PM UTC-4, Mike wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>> I am new to python and am getting the data from hbase.

If you want as many people as possible to read your posts, stop using a 
mail-agent and site that spits in the face of readers by doubling blank 
lines each iteration. Alternatives have been discussed previously.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From sanluca78 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 14:55:41 2012
From: sanluca78 at gmail.com (Luca Sanna)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 11:55:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: calendar from python to html
Message-ID: <c4e359a8-8b44-4971-9b3f-cc63f29d417b@googlegroups.com>

hi,

I enter a calendar in an html page
in each calendar day, I enter a time that is used by the program to perform actions with python

What can I use to do this?

thanks


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 15:29:04 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 13:29:04 -0600
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <12a372ba-8809-4fff-bca5-55a03e61ca82@googlegroups.com>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<12a372ba-8809-4fff-bca5-55a03e61ca82@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=zGSh0BPw0=txNmkkrBCUwZoJmh9LbUStg3O5inFanGQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 7:39 AM, Mike <mike20007 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry about that. Here you go
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "test.py", line 17, in <module>
>     total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r[0].columns.itervalues())
>   File "test.py", line 17, in <genexpr>
>     total = sum(float(col.value) for r in iter(next_r, None) for col in r[0].columns.itervalues())
> IndexError: list index out of range

Maybe the sentinel value is not None as I assumed, and it's
overrunning the end of the data?  What does
client.scannerGet return when there is no more data?


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Fri Oct  5 15:37:59 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 19:37:59 +0000
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <506e282e$0$1726$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.1807.1349374225.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506e282e$0$1726$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF474166DB3A7@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 7:22 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: notmm is dead!
> 
> On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 14:10:46 -0400, Etienne Robillard wrote:
> 
> > Dear list,
> >
> > Due to lack of energy and resources i'm really sad to announce the
> > removal of notmm from pypi and bitbucket.
> 
> Well that's just rude. Even if you don't intend to maintain the software
> any more, why are you removing it from pypi? Since you say you are a fan
> of Open Source software, just flag it as unmaintained and leave it for
> somebody else to pick up.
> 
> If you are going to abandon the project, release it on PyPI with a dual
> MIT and GPL licence, and let it be taken over by somebody else.
> 
> If you were looking for sympathy here, starting off by removing your
> project from free hosting, then complaining that you can't pay for the
> non-free hosting, was NOT the right way to do so.

I might be misunderstanding, but I think Etienne wants money in 
exchange for letting someone else take over. 

> 
> By the way, the latest version of notmm (0.4.4) has an empty licence
> file. No licence means that everyone using it is unlicenced and therefore
> infringing your copyright.
> 
> 


This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From trent at snakebite.org  Fri Oct  5 15:58:37 2012
From: trent at snakebite.org (Trent Nelson)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 15:58:37 -0400
Subject: Are ABCs an anti-pattern?
In-Reply-To: <506AF8C9.8060406@gmail.com>
References: <506AF8C9.8060406@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121005195836.GA94783@snakebite.org>

On Tue, Oct 02, 2012 at 07:23:05AM -0700, Demian Brecht wrote:
> I don't use them anymore, but I'm curious about others opinions on this 
> list...

    I like them.  In particular, I like that I can enumerate all the
    subclasses that happen to implement the ABC via the metaclass's
    __subclasses__() method.  I also like that I can trust Python
    not to instantiate a subclass of an ABC unless it meets all the
    interface criteria I've stipulated.

    Both of these aspects make ABCs a great fit when your base classes
    will be subclassed by other users/libraries (i.e. that you have no
    control over).

    For example, I use them in a project of mine called Enversion in
    order to automatically generate command-line scaffolding with as
    little effort (programming/typing-wise as possible).  The ABC
    stuff lives in 'evn.cli' and provides a set of generic classes
    for command-line tools.

    One of the command line tools that ships with Enversion is the
    'evnadmin' command.  Thanks to all the ABC scaffolding in the
    'evn.cli/command' module, all I need to write is the following
    to get an 'evnadmin' command-line interface:
    
        from evn.cli import (
            CLI,
            CommandLine,
        )

        class AdminCommandLine(CommandLine):
            @property
            def commands_module(self):
                return evn.admin.commands

        class AdminCLI(CLI):

            @property
            def program_name(self):
                return 'evnadmin'

            @property
            def commandline_subclasses(self):
                return AdminCommandLine.__subclasses__()

        class DoctestCommandLine(AdminCommandLine):
            _quiet_ = True

        class DumpDefaultConfigCommandLine(AdminCommandLine):
            pass

        class DumpConfigCommandLine(AdminCommandLine):
            _conf_ = True

        class ShowConfigFileLoadOrderCommandLine(AdminCommandLine):
            _conf_ = True

        class DumpHookCodeCommandLine(AdminCommandLine):
            _conf_ = True
            _repo_ = True

        [snip]

    Running 'evnadmin' with no arguments yields this:

        % evnadmin
        Type 'evnadmin <subcommand> help' for help on a specific subcommand.

        Available subcommands:
            analyze
            create
            disable-remote-debug (drd)
            doctest
            dump-config (dc)
            dump-default-config (ddc)
            dump-hook-code (dhc)
            enable
            enable-remote-debug (erd)
            find-merges (fm)
            fix-hooks (fh)
            root-info (ri)
            run-hook (rh)
            show-config-file-load-order (scflo)
            show-repo-hook-status (srhs)
            show-repo-remote-debug-sessions (srrds)
            show-roots (sr)
            toggle-remote-debug (trd)
            version

    The scaffolding can generate all of that automatically thanks to the
    ability to enumerate __subclasses__() of a metaclass.  The fact that
    Python will bomb out if a derived class doesn't implement all the
    required methods/properties is icing on the cake.  When you are
    expecting other developers to leverage your ABCs, getting instant
    feedback when you forget to implement a required method/property
    is incredibly useful.  It's definitely not a case of battling the
    design decisions made by the ABC author...

    Relevant Python files:
        https://github.com/tpn/enversion/blob/master/evn/cli.py
        https://github.com/tpn/enversion/blob/master/evn/admin/cli.py

    Regards,

        Trent.

> Demian Brecht
> @demianbrecht
> http://demianbrecht.github.com
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From mike20007 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 16:03:49 2012
From: mike20007 at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 13:03:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9cfb599a-31c2-486f-95c9-d60e1d29f730@googlegroups.com>

I added the print command.

It prints [] when there is no data.

Thanks


From mike20007 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 16:09:11 2012
From: mike20007 at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 13:09:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1863.1349463163.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<12a372ba-8809-4fff-bca5-55a03e61ca82@googlegroups.com>
	<04412893-e6ba-43cc-8d9c-7867f82af4d1@googlegroups.com>
	<d52e3cdb-9568-4963-8ff2-09e619f984c4@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1863.1349463163.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <397c5421-e28b-482e-82ce-6bf693056d51@googlegroups.com>

Terry,

I am not using the mail client. I am just posting on the site.

Something wrong with this site. When you do individual reply, it does the double posting which it shouldn't. See "Ramachandra Apte's" reply. It is posted twice too.

Thanks





From mike20007 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 16:09:11 2012
From: mike20007 at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 13:09:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1863.1349463163.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<12a372ba-8809-4fff-bca5-55a03e61ca82@googlegroups.com>
	<04412893-e6ba-43cc-8d9c-7867f82af4d1@googlegroups.com>
	<d52e3cdb-9568-4963-8ff2-09e619f984c4@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1863.1349463163.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <397c5421-e28b-482e-82ce-6bf693056d51@googlegroups.com>

Terry,

I am not using the mail client. I am just posting on the site.

Something wrong with this site. When you do individual reply, it does the double posting which it shouldn't. See "Ramachandra Apte's" reply. It is posted twice too.

Thanks





From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 16:10:36 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 14:10:36 -0600
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <9cfb599a-31c2-486f-95c9-d60e1d29f730@googlegroups.com>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<9cfb599a-31c2-486f-95c9-d60e1d29f730@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnipNfumeCfJAaCc0wBW0f2O6YOH0g1FDbU_Y2XnZLYsg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Mike <mike20007 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I added the print command.
>
> It prints [] when there is no data.

Change "iter(next_r, None)" to "iter(next_r, [])"


From vasudevram at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 16:19:17 2012
From: vasudevram at gmail.com (vasudevram)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 13:19:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fmap(), "inverse" of Python map() function
Message-ID: <727ec5d8-d292-4012-ba87-da77a1040c6a@googlegroups.com>


http://jugad2.blogspot.in/2012/10/fmap-inverse-of-python-map-function.html

- Vasudev Ram
www.dancingbison.com
jugad2.blogspot.com
twitter.com/vasudevram


From d at davea.name  Fri Oct  5 16:26:26 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 16:26:26 -0400
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <397c5421-e28b-482e-82ce-6bf693056d51@googlegroups.com>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<12a372ba-8809-4fff-bca5-55a03e61ca82@googlegroups.com>
	<04412893-e6ba-43cc-8d9c-7867f82af4d1@googlegroups.com>
	<d52e3cdb-9568-4963-8ff2-09e619f984c4@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1863.1349463163.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<397c5421-e28b-482e-82ce-6bf693056d51@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <506F4272.5010003@davea.name>

On 10/05/2012 04:09 PM, Mike wrote:
> Terry,
>
> I am not using the mail client. I am just posting on the site.

And which site would that be (that you're using)?  There are a few.  I'm
guessing you use google-groups.  And all of them get gatewayed to the
actual list, with differing numbers of bugs. 

I use email to access it directly.  I solve one of the duplicate-message
problems with google groups by automatically deleting any message
addressed to google-groups.  There are about 100 such messages each month.

Another problem is that lots of these gateways post to both the
newsgroup and to the python-list.

>
> Something wrong with this site. When you do individual reply, it does the double posting which it shouldn't. See "Ramachandra Apte's" reply. It is posted twice too.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>


-- 

DaveA



From mike20007 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 17:19:56 2012
From: mike20007 at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 14:19:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1871.1349467868.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<9cfb599a-31c2-486f-95c9-d60e1d29f730@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1871.1349467868.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <48ef35fb-89c4-4d4a-8eb6-b8ae5286db47@googlegroups.com>

That worked, Ian.

Thanks


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 17:31:35 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 15:31:35 -0600
Subject: fmap(), "inverse" of Python map() function
In-Reply-To: <727ec5d8-d292-4012-ba87-da77a1040c6a@googlegroups.com>
References: <727ec5d8-d292-4012-ba87-da77a1040c6a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmE5_LyKfEGqAGeN0Uv+g1fFo+ztjhZdr3b3vbRRnTvJA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 2:19 PM, vasudevram <vasudevram at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> http://jugad2.blogspot.in/2012/10/fmap-inverse-of-python-map-function.html

Your fmap is a special case of reduce.

def fmap(functions, argument):
    return reduce(lambda result, func: func(result), functions, argument)


From davejay2662 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 17:43:16 2012
From: davejay2662 at gmail.com (dave)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 14:43:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Job
Message-ID: <b181047d-4526-49c0-9f3b-1f185d941fb8@googlegroups.com>

Looking for entry to mid level Python Developer for Contract job in New England. Let me know if you want to hear more.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 17:43:31 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 15:43:31 -0600
Subject: fmap(), "inverse" of Python map() function
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidmE5_LyKfEGqAGeN0Uv+g1fFo+ztjhZdr3b3vbRRnTvJA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <727ec5d8-d292-4012-ba87-da77a1040c6a@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidmE5_LyKfEGqAGeN0Uv+g1fFo+ztjhZdr3b3vbRRnTvJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmU3ENMVgrz6N6MXpjUGQemeeHk69_W8H=_tHebU9ifFQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 3:31 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 2:19 PM, vasudevram <vasudevram at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> http://jugad2.blogspot.in/2012/10/fmap-inverse-of-python-map-function.html
>
> Your fmap is a special case of reduce.
>
> def fmap(functions, argument):
>     return reduce(lambda result, func: func(result), functions, argument)

In a more functional style, you could also use reduce to compose the
functions before applying them:

def compose(f, g):
    return lambda x: f(g(x))

def fmap(functions):
    return reduce(compose, reversed(functions))

# Allowing you to then do:
result = fmap(functions)(argument)

Cheers,
Ian


From iandouglas736 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 17:53:55 2012
From: iandouglas736 at gmail.com (ian douglas)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 21:53:55 -0000
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF474166DB3A7@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
References: <mailman.1807.1349374225.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506e282e$0$1726$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF474166DB3A7@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
Message-ID: <506F489C.6010805@gmail.com>

On 10/05/2012 12:37 PM, Prasad, Ramit wrote:
> I might be misunderstanding, but I think Etienne wants money in 
> exchange for letting someone else take over.

Not to stir up the hornet's nest any more, but it also sounds like now 
he wants money for people to license things as well:
"The license fee is simply because I'm shifting into commercial license 
for new releases"

Wait, new releases? I thought the project was "dead" ?


So, Etienne, are you continuing to maintain the project, or aren't you?
In your original "this project is dead" message, you said you had "been 
bitten by its failure to encourage a free market over one dictated by 
profit"

... yet now your desire is to be making money (presumably profit?) by 
selling us a license, so how does that differentiate from those you 
claim use "cheap tricks to compete" if you hijack a mailing list for 
several days by claiming you're shutting down the project then say 
you're charing for licenses which may lead people to believe you're 
going to KEEP maintaining it? Why on earth would I pay for a license to 
use code that is not being maintained? Seems like very strange logic to me.

Or by having someone pay you some quantity of money to take over as 
maintainer? I can think of no better way to just kill off a project than 
expect someone to pay money to take over as a maintainer. I don't recall 
ever hearing of such a thing in my experience with open-source projects...


I'm all about supporting open source projects when I gain value from 
them (I've donated thousands of dollars and countless hours), but 
Etienne's back-and-forth on this has me turned off from even wanting to 
try his project, much less support him. There are so many free places to 
host code/documentation these days, asking people to donate extra funds 
to maintain a custom domain name and hosting when free alternatives 
exist seems as unnecessary as having to pay money to become the next 
maintainer.

-id



From me at robin-krahl.de  Fri Oct  5 18:22:38 2012
From: me at robin-krahl.de (Robin Krahl)
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2012 00:22:38 +0200
Subject: Executing untrusted scripts in a sandboxed environment
Message-ID: <4hrls608xbax633ej6s1n54j.1349475464556@email.android.com>

Hi all,

I need to execute untrusted scripts in my Python application. To avoid security issues, I want to use a sandboxed environment. This means that the script authors have no access to the file system. They may only access objects, modules and classes that are "flagged" or "approved" for scripting.

I read that I will not be able to do this with Python scripts. (See SandboxedPython page in the Python wiki [0] and several SE.com questions, e. g. [1].) So my question is: What is the best way to "embed" a script engine in a sandboxed environment that has access to the Python modules and classes that I provide?

Thanks for your help.

Best regards,
    Robin

[0] http://wiki.python.org/moin/SandboxedPython
[1] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3068139/how-can-i-sandbox-python-in-pure-python

From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 18:52:41 2012
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 18:52:41 -0400
Subject: fmap(), "inverse" of Python map() function
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidmE5_LyKfEGqAGeN0Uv+g1fFo+ztjhZdr3b3vbRRnTvJA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <727ec5d8-d292-4012-ba87-da77a1040c6a@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidmE5_LyKfEGqAGeN0Uv+g1fFo+ztjhZdr3b3vbRRnTvJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJKNa18Qw5sN-kkxv+jOnbXF868wJGaaZ+T9Vsa3v8vrkw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:31 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 2:19 PM, vasudevram <vasudevram at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> http://jugad2.blogspot.in/2012/10/fmap-inverse-of-python-map-function.html
>
> Your fmap is a special case of reduce.

So is map.

def map(f, seq):
    return reduce(
        lambda rseq, newpre:
            rseq.append(f(newpre)) or rseq,
        seq,
        [])

"X is a special case of reduce" is basically the same as saying "X can
be implemented using a for loop". If it's meant as a complaint, it's a
poor one.

-- Devin


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Oct  5 19:00:30 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Oct 2012 23:00:30 GMT
Subject: instance.attribute lookup
References: <mailman.1861.1349459170.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <506f668d$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Oct 2012 10:39:53 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:

> There is a StackOverflow question [1] that points to this on-line book
> [2] which has a five-step sequence for looking up attributes:
> 
>  > When retrieving an attribute from an object (print
>  > objectname.attrname) Python follows these steps:
>  >
>  > 1. If attrname is a special (i.e. Python-provided) attribute for
>  > objectname, return it.
[...]
> I'm thinking step 1 is flat-out wrong and doesn't exist.  Does anybody
> know otherwise?

I'm thinking I don't even understand what step 1 means.

What's a Python-provided attribute, and how is it different from other 
attributes?



-- 
Steven


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Oct  5 19:12:22 2012
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 16:12:22 -0700
Subject: instance.attribute lookup
In-Reply-To: <506f668d$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.1861.1349459170.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506f668d$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <506F6956.2070502@stoneleaf.us>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Oct 2012 10:39:53 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:
> 
>> There is a StackOverflow question [1] that points to this on-line book
>> [2] which has a five-step sequence for looking up attributes:
>>
>>  > When retrieving an attribute from an object (print
>>  > objectname.attrname) Python follows these steps:
>>  >
>>  > 1. If attrname is a special (i.e. Python-provided) attribute for
>>  > objectname, return it.
> [...]
>> I'm thinking step 1 is flat-out wrong and doesn't exist.  Does anybody
>> know otherwise?
> 
> I'm thinking I don't even understand what step 1 means.
> 
> What's a Python-provided attribute, and how is it different from other 
> attributes?

Well, if /you/ don't understand it I feel a lot better about not 
understanding it either!  :)

Glad to know I'm not missing something (besides ESP, a crystal ball, and 
a mind-reader!)

~Ethan~


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 19:24:14 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 17:24:14 -0600
Subject: fmap(), "inverse" of Python map() function
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJKNa18Qw5sN-kkxv+jOnbXF868wJGaaZ+T9Vsa3v8vrkw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <727ec5d8-d292-4012-ba87-da77a1040c6a@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidmE5_LyKfEGqAGeN0Uv+g1fFo+ztjhZdr3b3vbRRnTvJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABicbJKNa18Qw5sN-kkxv+jOnbXF868wJGaaZ+T9Vsa3v8vrkw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkrUcLwHM_mgkcYd58y5rzDwierXR7ASzXjdxB39-DdbA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 4:52 PM, Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:31 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 2:19 PM, vasudevram <vasudevram at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> http://jugad2.blogspot.in/2012/10/fmap-inverse-of-python-map-function.html
>>
>> Your fmap is a special case of reduce.
>
> So is map.

I realize that.  My point is that the function *feels* more like a
variant of reduce than of map.

> If it's meant as a complaint, it's a poor one.

It's not.


From christian at python.org  Fri Oct  5 19:26:32 2012
From: christian at python.org (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2012 01:26:32 +0200
Subject: instance.attribute lookup
In-Reply-To: <506F1B69.8030800@stoneleaf.us>
References: <506F1B69.8030800@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <k4nqb7$giu$1@ger.gmane.org>

Am 05.10.2012 19:39, schrieb Ethan Furman:
> I'm thinking step 1 is flat-out wrong and doesn't exist.  Does anybody
> know otherwise?

The answer is confusing and also wrong. For instance it ignores the
existence of __slots__, metaclasses and the different lookup strategy of
__special__ methods in old style and new style classes.



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 19:29:51 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 17:29:51 -0600
Subject: instance.attribute lookup
In-Reply-To: <506F1B69.8030800@stoneleaf.us>
References: <506F1B69.8030800@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnvkvj+uMG9j=-UtGHZvcegQadDxB9ZdkLjgq5Uc5DBKQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
> There is a StackOverflow question [1] that points to this on-line book [2]
> which has a five-step sequence for looking up attributes:
>
>> When retrieving an attribute from an object (print
>> objectname.attrname) Python follows these steps:
>>
>> 1. If attrname is a special (i.e. Python-provided) attribute for
>> objectname, return it.
>>
>> 2. Check objectname.__class__.__dict__ for attrname. If it exists and
>> is a data-descriptor, return the descriptor result. Search all bases
>> of objectname.__class__ for the same case.
>>
>> 3. Check objectname.__dict__ for attrname, and return if found. If
>> objectname is a class, search its bases too. If it is a class and a
>> descriptor exists in it or its bases, return the descriptor result.
>>
>> 4. Check objectname.__class__.__dict__ for attrname. If it exists and
>> is a non-data descriptor, return the descriptor result. If it exists,
>> and is not a descriptor, just return it. If it exists and is a data
>> descriptor, we shouldn't be here because we would have returned at
>> point 2. Search all bases of objectname.__class__ for same case.
>>
>> 5. Raise AttributeError
>
> I'm thinking step 1 is flat-out wrong and doesn't exist.  Does anybody know
> otherwise?

I think step 1 refers to looking up attributes like "foo.__class__" or
"foo.__dict__" themselves.


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 19:30:57 2012
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 19:30:57 -0400
Subject: fmap(), "inverse" of Python map() function
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidkrUcLwHM_mgkcYd58y5rzDwierXR7ASzXjdxB39-DdbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <727ec5d8-d292-4012-ba87-da77a1040c6a@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidmE5_LyKfEGqAGeN0Uv+g1fFo+ztjhZdr3b3vbRRnTvJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABicbJKNa18Qw5sN-kkxv+jOnbXF868wJGaaZ+T9Vsa3v8vrkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidkrUcLwHM_mgkcYd58y5rzDwierXR7ASzXjdxB39-DdbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJLseYfY55M158fLK8LDjbSLsrMb1C_MTc1F2zAHKHm-vw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> I realize that.  My point is that the function *feels* more like a
> variant of reduce than of map.
>
>> If it's meant as a complaint, it's a poor one.
>
> It's not.

Fair enough all around. Sorry for misunderstanding.

-- Devin


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Oct  5 19:32:44 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2012 00:32:44 +0100
Subject: instance.attribute lookup
In-Reply-To: <506F6956.2070502@stoneleaf.us>
References: <mailman.1861.1349459170.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506f668d$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<506F6956.2070502@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <k4nql7$ipl$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 06/10/2012 00:12, Ethan Furman wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 05 Oct 2012 10:39:53 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:
>>
>>> There is a StackOverflow question [1] that points to this on-line book
>>> [2] which has a five-step sequence for looking up attributes:
>>>
>>>  > When retrieving an attribute from an object (print
>>>  > objectname.attrname) Python follows these steps:
>>>  >
>>>  > 1. If attrname is a special (i.e. Python-provided) attribute for
>>>  > objectname, return it.
>> [...]
>>> I'm thinking step 1 is flat-out wrong and doesn't exist.  Does anybody
>>> know otherwise?
>>
>> I'm thinking I don't even understand what step 1 means.
>>
>> What's a Python-provided attribute, and how is it different from other
>> attributes?
>
> Well, if /you/ don't understand it I feel a lot better about not
> understanding it either!  :)
>
> Glad to know I'm not missing something (besides ESP, a crystal ball, and
> a mind-reader!)
>
> ~Ethan~

My probably highly uneducated guess is that "Python-provided attribute" 
refers to double underscore names. YMMV by several trillion light years :)

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From cs at zip.com.au  Fri Oct  5 19:37:42 2012
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 09:37:42 +1000
Subject: + in regular expression
In-Reply-To: <506EFC44.40508@cs.wisc.edu>
References: <506EFC44.40508@cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <20121005233741.GA21277@cskk.homeip.net>

On 05Oct2012 10:27, Evan Driscoll <driscoll at cs.wisc.edu> wrote:
| I can understand that you can create a grammar that excludes it. [...]
| Was it because such patterns often reveal a mistake?

For myself, I would consider that sufficient reason.

I've seen plenty of languages (C and shell, for example, though they
are not alone or egrarious) where a compiler can emit a syntax complaint
many lines from the actual coding mistake (in shell, an unclosed quote
or control construct is a common examplei; Python has the same issue
but mitigated by the indentation requirements which cut the occurence
down a lot).

Forbidding a common error by requiring a wordier workaround isn't
unreasonable.

| Because "\s{6}+" 
| has other meanings in different regex syntaxes and the designers didn't 
| want confusion?

I think Python REs are supposed to be Perl compatible; ISTR an opening
sentence to that effect...

| Because it was simpler to parse that way? Because the 
| "hey you recognize regular expressions by converting it to a finite 
| automaton" story is a lie in most real-world regex implementations (in 
| part because they're not actually regular expressions) and repeated 
| quantifiers cause problems with the parsing techniques that actually get 
| used?

There are certainly constructs that can cause an exponential amount
of backtracking is misused. One could make a case for discouragement
(though not a case for forbidding them).

Just my 2c,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

The most annoying thing about being without my files after our disc crash was
discovering once again how widespread BLINK was on the web.


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Oct  5 20:24:58 2012
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 19:24:58 -0500
Subject: Problems building Python from hg trunk on Open SUSE
Message-ID: <CANc-5UwG-dgCRtkaX-xwRi4J4sB2gjvtGN2QsZj0qxE--V7YDw@mail.gmail.com>

I haven't messed around with Python 3 recently, so decided to give it
a whirl again.  I cloned the trunk (cpython) and set about it.  This
is on an OpenSUSE 12.1 system.  I configured like so:

  ./configure --prefix=/home/skipm/.linux-local

and ran the usual "make ; make install".

I'm a bit perplexed about how it is installed.  Instead of installing
shared objects in

  /home/skipm/.linux-local/lib/python3.4/lib-dynload

they were installed in

/home/skipm/.linux-local/lib64/python3.4/lib-dynload

(note the "lib64" vs. "lib").  This would be fine, except sys.path
doesn't include the "lib64" version of this path:

% PYTHONPATH= PYTHONSTARTUP= ~/.linux-local/bin/python3.4 -S
Could not find platform dependent libraries <exec_prefix>
Consider setting $PYTHONHOME to <prefix>[:<exec_prefix>]
Python 3.4.0a0 (default:26200f535296, Oct  3 2012, 12:48:07)
[GCC 4.4.6 [TWW]] on linux
>>> import sys
>>> sys.path
['', '', '/home/skipm/.linux-local/lib/python34.zip',
'/home/skipm/.linux-local/lib/python3.4/',
'/home/skipm/.linux-local/lib/python3.4/plat-linux',
'/home/skipm/.linux-local/lib/lib-dynload']

I see the message about setting PYTHONHOME.  (That happens to be bad
advice as sys.prefix and sys.exec_prefix are identical in this case.)
What I don't understand is why directories containing "lib64" are not
in sys.path by default, given that that's where "make install" put
things.

GCC is as delivered by The Written Word.  (This is a work computer.
The powers that be settled on TWW awhile ago for packaging all open
source software we use on Linux and Solaris, thus removing a headache
from our support staff.)  It is:

% gcc --version
gcc (GCC) 4.4.6 [TWW]
Copyright (C) 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.  There is NO
warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

The architecture looks like this:

% uname -a
Linux udesktop264 3.1.0-1.2-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Nov 3 14:45:45
UTC 2011 (187dde0) x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

I don't see anything in the output of "./configure --help" which
relates to 64-bit install directories, though I do see some lines in
config.log about guessing the architecture.  Some cursory googling
didn't turn up any promising web pages, and I didn't find anything in
the various documentation files in the repo related to building
Python.

Any suggestions about how to resolve this would be appreciated.

Thx,

Skip


From eldiener at tropicsoft.invalid  Fri Oct  5 20:51:36 2012
From: eldiener at tropicsoft.invalid (Edward Diener)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 20:51:36 -0400
Subject: Coexistence of Python 2.x and 3.x on same OS
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1874.1349472742.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <k4a5m9$l2k$1@dont-email.me> <e8jas.240866$uJ4.171815@fx18.am4>
	<k4mj13$fof$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.1874.1349472742.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k4nvap$cru$1@dont-email.me>

On 10/5/2012 5:32 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Oct 2012 08:15:30 -0400, Edward Diener
> <eldiener at tropicsoft.invalid> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>>
>> Windows installs of Python do not distinguish releases by Pythonx(.x)
>> but just install different versions of Python in different directories.
>
> 	Really?
>
> E:\Python27>dir
>   Volume in drive E is Data
>   Volume Serial Number is 2626-D991
>
>   Directory of E:\Python27
>
> 08/28/2012  05:32 PM    <DIR>          .
> 08/28/2012  05:32 PM    <DIR>          ..
> 08/28/2012  02:11 PM    <DIR>          DLLs
> 08/28/2012  05:43 PM    <DIR>          Doc
> 08/28/2012  02:11 PM    <DIR>          include
> 08/31/2012  04:58 PM    <DIR>          Lib
> 08/28/2012  02:11 PM    <DIR>          libs
> 08/28/2012  02:15 PM           108,255 matplotlib-wininst.log
> 08/28/2012  02:18 PM             4,169 MySQL-python-wininst.log
> 08/28/2012  02:15 PM            98,498 numpy-wininst.log
> 08/28/2012  02:20 PM            17,816 PIL-wininst.log
> 08/28/2012  03:29 PM             1,572 PyOpenGL-accelerate-wininst.log
> 08/28/2012  03:38 PM             3,009 pyserial-wininst.log
>
> 06/24/2011  12:38 PM            27,136 python.exe		****
> 06/24/2011  12:38 PM            27,136 python2.7.exe	****
> 06/24/2011  12:38 PM            27,136 python2.exe	****
>
> 08/28/2012  05:32 PM            90,943 PythonCard-wininst.log
>
> 06/24/2011  12:38 PM            27,136 pythonw.exe	****
> 06/24/2011  12:38 PM            27,136 pythonw2.7.exe	****
> 06/24/2011  12:38 PM            27,136 pythonw2.exe	****

That's, as you say, ActievState. The normal Python installer does not 
create a python2.7.exe etc.

But of course I can create any links I want, so that's not really the 
problem. The major difficulty is that prior to invoking either "python" 
directly or a script with a normal Python file association, I want to be 
able to specify which version of Python should be invoked as the default 
without having to specifically invoke a partiocular version  by typing 
'python2.7 ...' or 'python3.3 ...' etc.

>
> 08/28/2012  02:15 PM           196,096 Removematplotlib.exe
> 08/28/2012  02:18 PM           196,096 RemoveMySQL-python.exe
> 08/28/2012  02:15 PM           196,096 Removenumpy.exe
> 08/28/2012  02:20 PM           196,096 RemovePIL.exe
> 08/28/2012  03:29 PM           196,096 RemovePyOpenGL-accelerate.exe
> 08/28/2012  03:38 PM           196,096 Removepyserial.exe
> 08/28/2012  05:32 PM            61,440 RemovePythonCard.exe
> 08/28/2012  02:20 PM           196,096 Removereportlab.exe
> 08/28/2012  02:19 PM           196,096 Removescipy.exe
> 08/28/2012  05:29 PM           196,096 RemoveWConio.exe
> 08/28/2012  02:20 PM            40,362 reportlab-wininst.log
> 08/28/2012  02:19 PM           159,420 scipy-wininst.log
> 08/28/2012  05:32 PM    <DIR>          Scripts
> 08/28/2012  02:11 PM    <DIR>          tcl
> 08/28/2012  02:11 PM    <DIR>          Tools
> 11/28/2007  04:32 PM           258,352 unicows.dll
> 06/24/2011  12:38 PM            49,664 w9xpopen.exe
> 08/28/2012  05:29 PM               891 WConio-wininst.log
>                28 File(s)      2,822,071 bytes
>                10 Dir(s)  148,557,684,736 bytes free
>
> E:\Python27>
>
> 	That's what was set up by a recent ActiveState installer (well,
> recent for me -- I'd still been using 2.5 three months ago)
>
> 	Yes, it IS in a version numbered directory, but there are copies of
> the executable named as plain python, pythonX, and pythonX.Y
>
> E:\Python27>cd %homepath%
>
> E:\UserData\Wulfraed\My Documents>python
> ActivePython 2.7.2.5 (ActiveState Software Inc.) based on
> Python 2.7.2 (default, Jun 24 2011, 12:21:10) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
> (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> ^Z
>
>
> E:\UserData\Wulfraed\My Documents>python2.7
> ActivePython 2.7.2.5 (ActiveState Software Inc.) based on
> Python 2.7.2 (default, Jun 24 2011, 12:21:10) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
> (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>>
>
> 	Granted, one would need to have each installation directory in the
> PATH, ordered such that the preferred version would be found first when
> using just "python".

There is much more than just the PATH needed to change to have a 
different Python be the default. File associations also. I thnk there 
are more things too, but I know it has always been difficult on Windows 
to easily change which distribution is called when "python" is executed 
or some Python file association is executed.

I welcome the new Python launcher for Windows mentioned but have not had 
a chance to use it and see how it works yet. I will try it this weekend 
and hopefully it will work well to solve the problem of having multiple 
Python installations installed on Windows at the same time, and being 
able to easily specify the one I want invoked.



From nad at acm.org  Fri Oct  5 21:37:13 2012
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 18:37:13 -0700
Subject: Problems building Python from hg trunk on Open SUSE
References: <CANc-5UwG-dgCRtkaX-xwRi4J4sB2gjvtGN2QsZj0qxE--V7YDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <nad-2D0813.18371305102012@news.gmane.org>

In article 
<CANc-5UwG-dgCRtkaX-xwRi4J4sB2gjvtGN2QsZj0qxE--V7YDw at mail.gmail.com>,
 Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

> I haven't messed around with Python 3 recently, so decided to give it
> a whirl again.  I cloned the trunk (cpython) and set about it.  This
> is on an OpenSUSE 12.1 system.  I configured like so:
[...] 
> Any suggestions about how to resolve this would be appreciated.

It looks like you're running into the problems described in:

http://bugs.python.org/issue15631

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Fri Oct  5 21:43:49 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 18:43:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1869.1349467590.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1807.1349374225.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506e282e$0$1726$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1869.1349467590.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e45e6377-58fa-4d4a-a9ea-4f1f53964b36@googlegroups.com>

Prasad, Ramit? 2012?10?6????UTC+8??4?06?31????
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 7:22 PM
> 
> > To: python-list at python.org
> 
> > Subject: Re: notmm is dead!
> 
> > 
> 
> > On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 14:10:46 -0400, Etienne Robillard wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > > Dear list,
> 
> > >
> 
> > > Due to lack of energy and resources i'm really sad to announce the
> 
> > > removal of notmm from pypi and bitbucket.
> 
> > 
> 
> > Well that's just rude. Even if you don't intend to maintain the software
> 
> > any more, why are you removing it from pypi? Since you say you are a fan
> 
> > of Open Source software, just flag it as unmaintained and leave it for
> 
> > somebody else to pick up.
> 
> > 
> 
> > If you are going to abandon the project, release it on PyPI with a dual
> 
> > MIT and GPL licence, and let it be taken over by somebody else.
> 
> > 
> 
> > If you were looking for sympathy here, starting off by removing your
> 
> > project from free hosting, then complaining that you can't pay for the
> 
> > non-free hosting, was NOT the right way to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> I might be misunderstanding, but I think Etienne wants money in 
> 
> exchange for letting someone else take over. 
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> 
> > By the way, the latest version of notmm (0.4.4) has an empty licence
> 
> > file. No licence means that everyone using it is unlicenced and therefore
> 
> > infringing your copyright.
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
> 
> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
> 
> securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
> 
> confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
> 
> available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.

I think it is OK to have some string attatched in those open source projects.

Nowadays the software industry is just like the perfume and prtinting 
and the audio-video entaertainment   industry.

The replication cost is so  low. Don't forget the lawsuites in Facebook 
about  the participants charged the founder in the courts.


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Fri Oct  5 21:43:49 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 18:43:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1869.1349467590.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1807.1349374225.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506e282e$0$1726$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1869.1349467590.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e45e6377-58fa-4d4a-a9ea-4f1f53964b36@googlegroups.com>

Prasad, Ramit? 2012?10?6????UTC+8??4?06?31????
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 7:22 PM
> 
> > To: python-list at python.org
> 
> > Subject: Re: notmm is dead!
> 
> > 
> 
> > On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 14:10:46 -0400, Etienne Robillard wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > > Dear list,
> 
> > >
> 
> > > Due to lack of energy and resources i'm really sad to announce the
> 
> > > removal of notmm from pypi and bitbucket.
> 
> > 
> 
> > Well that's just rude. Even if you don't intend to maintain the software
> 
> > any more, why are you removing it from pypi? Since you say you are a fan
> 
> > of Open Source software, just flag it as unmaintained and leave it for
> 
> > somebody else to pick up.
> 
> > 
> 
> > If you are going to abandon the project, release it on PyPI with a dual
> 
> > MIT and GPL licence, and let it be taken over by somebody else.
> 
> > 
> 
> > If you were looking for sympathy here, starting off by removing your
> 
> > project from free hosting, then complaining that you can't pay for the
> 
> > non-free hosting, was NOT the right way to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> I might be misunderstanding, but I think Etienne wants money in 
> 
> exchange for letting someone else take over. 
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> 
> > By the way, the latest version of notmm (0.4.4) has an empty licence
> 
> > file. No licence means that everyone using it is unlicenced and therefore
> 
> > infringing your copyright.
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
> 
> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
> 
> securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
> 
> confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
> 
> available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.

I think it is OK to have some string attatched in those open source projects.

Nowadays the software industry is just like the perfume and prtinting 
and the audio-video entaertainment   industry.

The replication cost is so  low. Don't forget the lawsuites in Facebook 
about  the participants charged the founder in the courts.


From hexusnexus at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 22:20:03 2012
From: hexusnexus at gmail.com (Jason Benjamin)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 19:20:03 -0700
Subject: calendar from python to html
In-Reply-To: <c4e359a8-8b44-4971-9b3f-cc63f29d417b@googlegroups.com>
References: <c4e359a8-8b44-4971-9b3f-cc63f29d417b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k4o4gm$g8o$1@news.albasani.net>

Well, you need a web server, a webpage, a database (could just be a 
file), a cgi script, and the datetime module.  Optionally, you can use a 
web framework like CherryPy or Django, which covers a lot of these by 
itself.

I only know Python 2, but here are some examples:

A basic web server:

webdir = '.'
port = 80

import os, sys
from BaseHTTPServer import HTTPServer
from CGIHTTPServer import CGIHTTPRequestHandler

if len(sys.argv) > 1: webdir = sys.argv[1]
if len(sys.argv) > 2: port = int(sys.argv[2])
print 'webdir "%s", port %s' % (webdir, port)

#Windows only hack
if sys.platform[:3] == 'win':
     CGIHTTPRequestHandler.have_popen2 = False
     CGIHTTPRequestHandler.have_popen3 = False
     sys.path.append('cgi-bin')

os.chdir(webdir)
srvraddr = ("", port)
srvrobj = HTTPServer(srvraddr, CGIHTTPRequestHandler)
srvrobj.serve_forever()


Start the script in the same directory as the cgi script and HTML.
Assuming you have a file that holds '1' time per date, you could
write a program to pickle and unpickle dictionaries that
are derived from form data:

import pickle
import cgi

file = open('dates.pkl', 'rb')
mydates = pickle.load(file)
file.close()

html = """
<html>
<body>
<h1>Schedule</h1>
<form method=POST action="yourscript.py">
<table border=1>
<tr>
<td><input type=text name=april01 value=%(april01)s></td>
<td><input type=text name=april02 value=%(april02)s></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><input type=text name=april03 value=%(april03)s></td>
<td><input type=text name=april04 value=%(april04)s></td>
</tr>
</table>
<input type=hidden name=submitted value=done>
<p><input type=submit>
</form>
</body>
</html>
"""

dates = ['april01', 'april02', 'april03', 'april04']
if form.has_key('submitted'):
     newdates = {}
     for d in dates:
         if form.has_key(d):
             newdates[d] = form[d].value
         else:
             newdates[d] = ''
     mydates = newdates
     output = open('dates.pkl', 'wb')
     pickle.dump(mydates, output)
     output.close()
else:
     for d in dates:
         if not mydates.has_key(d):
             mydates[d] = ''

print html % mydates


Then you could write an additional program that runs
in the background or something:

import pickle
from datetime import date, datetime

mycode = 'print "Hello World!"'
file = open('dates.pkl', 'rb')
mydates = pickle.load(file)
file.close()

while True:
today = date.today()
     if today.month == 4 and today.day == 01:
         hour = datetime.time(datetime.now()).hour
         min = datetime.time(datetime.now()).minute
         if hour == int(mydates['april04'][0]) and min ==
                 int(mydates['april04'][-2:]):
             exec mycode

_exec_ executes a Python string like a program.  To execute an actual 
python script use subprocess instead:

import subprocess
subprocess.call(["python", "myscript.py"])

Hope this helps.

On 10/05/2012 11:55 AM, Luca Sanna wrote:
> hi,
>
> I enter a calendar in an html page
> in each calendar day, I enter a time that is used by the program to perform actions with python
>
> What can I use to do this?
>
> thanks
>



From torriem at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 22:58:46 2012
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 20:58:46 -0600
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <e45e6377-58fa-4d4a-a9ea-4f1f53964b36@googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.1807.1349374225.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506e282e$0$1726$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1869.1349467590.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e45e6377-58fa-4d4a-a9ea-4f1f53964b36@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <506F9E66.3050302@gmail.com>

On 10/05/2012 07:43 PM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> I think it is OK to have some string attatched in those open source projects.

What are you talking about?  What "string?"

> Nowadays the software industry is just like the perfume and prtinting 
> and the audio-video entaertainment   industry.

True

> The replication cost is so  low. Don't forget the lawsuites in Facebook 
> about  the participants charged the founder in the courts.

What do lawsuits have to do with replication costs?

I suppose a person can fail a turing test...


From palmeira at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 23:27:36 2012
From: palmeira at gmail.com (palmeira)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 20:27:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: write binary with struct.pack_into
Message-ID: <1349494056881-4991234.post@n6.nabble.com>

Dear pythonists,

I'm having a problem with read/write binary in python.
I have a binary file that I need to read information, extract a array,
modify this array and put these values into file again in same binary
format.
I need to use unpack_from and pack_into because sometimes gonna need
read/write in the middle of file.

Script:

import struct
bloco='>%df' %(252)  #Binary format

# READ
fa=open('testIN.bin')
my_array=struct.unpack_from(bloco,fa.read()[0*4:251*4])    # my_aray = 252
elements array
## This read is OK!

#WRITE
fb=open('testOUT.bin')
test=struct.pack_into(bloco,fb.write()[0*4:251*4])  # ERROR in this WRITE




Regards,

Ronaldo Palmeira.




--
View this message in context: http://python.6.n6.nabble.com/write-binary-with-struct-pack-into-tp4991234.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From k.sahithi2862 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 00:27:15 2012
From: k.sahithi2862 at gmail.com (SAHITHI)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 21:27:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: HOT TEMPTING PHOTOS & VIDEOS
Message-ID: <ffa8751a-d1ed-4faa-9e93-9b388acd987b@r10g2000pbd.googlegroups.com>


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From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Sat Oct  6 00:39:09 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 21:39:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: write binary with struct.pack_into
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1889.1349494066.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1889.1349494066.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <161b9212-9e78-4e88-b6dc-98a8b5cb285e@googlegroups.com>

palmeira? 2012?10?6????UTC+8??11?27?47????
> Dear pythonists,
> 
> 
> 
> I'm having a problem with read/write binary in python.
> 
> I have a binary file that I need to read information, extract a array,
> 
> modify this array and put these values into file again in same binary
> 
> format.
> 
> I need to use unpack_from and pack_into because sometimes gonna need
> 
> read/write in the middle of file.
> 
> 
> 
> Script:
> 
> 
> 
> import struct
> 
> bloco='>%df' %(252)  #Binary format
> 
> 
> 
> # READ
> 
> fa=open('testIN.bin')
> 
> my_array=struct.unpack_from(bloco,fa.read()[0*4:251*4])    # my_aray = 252
> 
> elements array
> 
> ## This read is OK!
> 
> 
> 
> #WRITE
> 
> fb=open('testOUT.bin')
> 
> test=struct.pack_into(bloco,fb.write()[0*4:251*4])  # ERROR in this WRITE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> 
> Ronaldo Palmeira.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> View this message in context: http://python.6.n6.nabble.com/write-binary-with-struct-pack-into-tp4991234.html
> 
> Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Are you writing and reading files produce by different 
languages?

The pickle part  is better  for OOP and glue logics in python.

The heavy computing part should be done in CYTHON.


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Sat Oct  6 00:39:09 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 21:39:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: write binary with struct.pack_into
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1889.1349494066.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1889.1349494066.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <161b9212-9e78-4e88-b6dc-98a8b5cb285e@googlegroups.com>

palmeira? 2012?10?6????UTC+8??11?27?47????
> Dear pythonists,
> 
> 
> 
> I'm having a problem with read/write binary in python.
> 
> I have a binary file that I need to read information, extract a array,
> 
> modify this array and put these values into file again in same binary
> 
> format.
> 
> I need to use unpack_from and pack_into because sometimes gonna need
> 
> read/write in the middle of file.
> 
> 
> 
> Script:
> 
> 
> 
> import struct
> 
> bloco='>%df' %(252)  #Binary format
> 
> 
> 
> # READ
> 
> fa=open('testIN.bin')
> 
> my_array=struct.unpack_from(bloco,fa.read()[0*4:251*4])    # my_aray = 252
> 
> elements array
> 
> ## This read is OK!
> 
> 
> 
> #WRITE
> 
> fb=open('testOUT.bin')
> 
> test=struct.pack_into(bloco,fb.write()[0*4:251*4])  # ERROR in this WRITE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> 
> Ronaldo Palmeira.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> View this message in context: http://python.6.n6.nabble.com/write-binary-with-struct-pack-into-tp4991234.html
> 
> Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Are you writing and reading files produce by different 
languages?

The pickle part  is better  for OOP and glue logics in python.

The heavy computing part should be done in CYTHON.


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 01:53:17 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 22:53:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1888.1349492341.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1807.1349374225.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506e282e$0$1726$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1869.1349467590.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e45e6377-58fa-4d4a-a9ea-4f1f53964b36@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1888.1349492341.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <db6606f0-9105-4912-b994-a052ef15d7a3@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, 6 October 2012 08:29:02 UTC+5:30, Michael Torrie  wrote:
> On 10/05/2012 07:43 PM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> 
> > I think it is OK to have some string attatched in those open source projects.
> 
> 
> 
> What are you talking about?  What "string?"
> 
> 
> 
> > Nowadays the software industry is just like the perfume and prtinting 
> 
> > and the audio-video entaertainment   industry.
> 
> 
> 
> True
> 
> 
> 
> > The replication cost is so  low. Don't forget the lawsuites in Facebook 
> 
> > about  the participants charged the founder in the courts.
> 
> 
> 
> What do lawsuits have to do with replication costs?
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose a person can fail a turing test...

You are talking to a bot.


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 01:53:17 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 22:53:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1888.1349492341.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1807.1349374225.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506e282e$0$1726$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1869.1349467590.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e45e6377-58fa-4d4a-a9ea-4f1f53964b36@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1888.1349492341.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <db6606f0-9105-4912-b994-a052ef15d7a3@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, 6 October 2012 08:29:02 UTC+5:30, Michael Torrie  wrote:
> On 10/05/2012 07:43 PM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> 
> > I think it is OK to have some string attatched in those open source projects.
> 
> 
> 
> What are you talking about?  What "string?"
> 
> 
> 
> > Nowadays the software industry is just like the perfume and prtinting 
> 
> > and the audio-video entaertainment   industry.
> 
> 
> 
> True
> 
> 
> 
> > The replication cost is so  low. Don't forget the lawsuites in Facebook 
> 
> > about  the participants charged the founder in the courts.
> 
> 
> 
> What do lawsuits have to do with replication costs?
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose a person can fail a turing test...

You are talking to a bot.


From mpg at elzevir.fr  Sat Oct  6 02:27:25 2012
From: mpg at elzevir.fr (Manuel =?iso-8859-1?q?P=E9gouri=E9-Gonnard?=)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 08:27:25 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: try/except KeyError vs "if name in ..."
Message-ID: <k4oj0d$qgl$1@thue.elzevir.fr>

Hi,

I was looking at the example found here [1] which begins with:

[1] http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/imp.html#examples

def __import__(name, globals=None, locals=None, fromlist=None):
    # Fast path: see if the module has already been imported.
    try:
        return sys.modules[name]
    except KeyError:
        pass

I was wondering if the formulation

    if name in sys.modules:
        return sys.modules[name]

would be equivalent. IOW, is using try/except here only a matter of
style or a necessity?

I'm suspecting that maybe, in multithreaded environments, the second
option may be subject to a race condition, if another thread removes
name frome sys.modules between the if and the return, but as I'm not
very familiar (yet) with Python threads, I'm not sure it is a real
concern here.

And maybe there are other reasons I'm completely missing for prefering
EAFP over LBYL here?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

-- 
Manuel P?gouri?-Gonnard - http://people.math.jussieu.fr/~mpg/




From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 02:51:17 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 16:51:17 +1000
Subject: write binary with struct.pack_into
In-Reply-To: <1349494056881-4991234.post@n6.nabble.com>
References: <1349494056881-4991234.post@n6.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp4Xzpkj+rQNEKYf5AwyDaCk3uS=WO4dBsCXvSz9At0-w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 1:27 PM, palmeira <palmeira at gmail.com> wrote:
> import struct
> bloco='>%df' %(252)  #Binary format
>
> # READ
> fa=open('testIN.bin')
> my_array=struct.unpack_from(bloco,fa.read()[0*4:251*4])    # my_aray = 252
> elements array
> ## This read is OK!
>
> #WRITE
> fb=open('testOUT.bin')
> test=struct.pack_into(bloco,fb.write()[0*4:251*4])  # ERROR in this WRITE

You have a beautiful parallel here, but I think that's where your
problem is. In the READ section, you have fa.read() which will read
the whole file, and then you slice the resulting string. That's pretty
inefficient for large files, but it'll work.

But when you write, that completely does not work. (Even assuming
you've opened read/write, per Dennis's comment.)
>>> fb.write()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#37>", line 1, in <module>
    fb.write()
TypeError: write() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given)

It needs an argument of what to write out, it doesn't return a
writable buffer suitable for pack_into.

I recommend you completely rewrite your file handling to use actual
seeks and file writes. Also, you'll want (I think) to use binary mode
on your files; character encodings don't mean much when you're working
with arrays of numbers.

Finally, when you post issues, "ERROR in this WRITE" isn't very
helpful. Please please post the full traceback (like in my trivial
example above), as problems will be much more visible.

Hope that's of some value!

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 03:19:20 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 17:19:20 +1000
Subject: Executing untrusted scripts in a sandboxed environment
In-Reply-To: <4hrls608xbax633ej6s1n54j.1349475464556@email.android.com>
References: <4hrls608xbax633ej6s1n54j.1349475464556@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqa_BbvHUxcmjLHFtt423o-np8EU3XP3cZ1dffPPfkM+A@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Robin Krahl <me at robin-krahl.de> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I need to execute untrusted scripts in my Python application. To avoid security issues, I want to use a sandboxed environment. This means that the script authors have no access to the file system. They may only access objects, modules and classes that are "flagged" or "approved" for scripting.
>
> I read that I will not be able to do this with Python scripts. (See SandboxedPython page in the Python wiki [0] and several SE.com questions, e. g. [1].) So my question is: What is the best way to "embed" a script engine in a sandboxed environment that has access to the Python modules and classes that I provide?

With extreme difficulty. A while back (couple years maybe? I don't
remember), I ignored everyone's warnings and tried to make a sandboxed
Python, embedded in a C++ application. It failed in sandboxing. With
just some trivial tinkering using Python's introspection facilities, a
couple of python-list people managed to read and write files, and
other equally dangerous actions. Shortly thereafter, we solved the
problem completely... by switching to JavaScript.

Embedding CPython in an application simply doesn't afford sandboxing.
To what extent do you actually need to run untrusted Python? Can you,
for instance, sandbox the entire process (which wasn't an option for
what we were doing)? Perhaps chrooting the Python interpreter will do
what you need. But there may still be leaks, I don't know.

ChrisA


From wxjmfauth at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 03:27:41 2012
From: wxjmfauth at gmail.com (wxjmfauth at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 00:27:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Coexistence of Python 2.x and 3.x on same OS
In-Reply-To: <k4a5m9$l2k$1@dont-email.me>
References: <k4a5m9$l2k$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <314ffb69-c89b-42f6-9af1-61005056ef91@googlegroups.com>

Using Python on Windows is a dream.

Python uses and needs the system, but the system does
not use Python.

Every Python version is installed in its own isolated
space, site-packages included and without any defined
environment variable. Every Python can be seen as a
different application.
Knowing this, it is a no-problem to use the miscellaneous
versions; can be with the console, with an editor, with
.bat or .cmd files, with the Windows "start menu" launcher,
... like any application.

The file extension is a double sword. Do not use it or
unregister it, the msi installer allows to do this.
It is the same task/problem as with any file, .txt, .png, ...

The new Python launcher is a redondant tool.

A point of view from a multi-users desktop user.

----

In my mind, it is a mistake to deliver a ready
preconfigurated installation.

"TeX" (I may say, as usual) is doing fine. A "TeX"
installation consists usually only in "TeX" engines
installation/configuration. It let the user work the
way he wishes.

jmf


From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Oct  6 03:45:03 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2012 09:45:03 +0200
Subject: write binary with struct.pack_into
References: <1349494056881-4991234.post@n6.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <k4onhs$ae9$1@ger.gmane.org>

palmeira wrote:

> Dear pythonists,
> 
> I'm having a problem with read/write binary in python.
> I have a binary file that I need to read information, extract a array,
> modify this array and put these values into file again in same binary
> format.
> I need to use unpack_from and pack_into because sometimes gonna need
> read/write in the middle of file.

Use pack/unpack and file.seek() instead.
 
> Script:
> 
> import struct
> bloco='>%df' %(252)  #Binary format
> 
> # READ
> fa=open('testIN.bin')
> my_array=struct.unpack_from(bloco,fa.read()[0*4:251*4])    # my_aray = 252
> elements array
> ## This read is OK!
> 
> #WRITE
> fb=open('testOUT.bin')
> test=struct.pack_into(bloco,fb.write()[0*4:251*4])  # ERROR in this WRITE

However, I think you have picked the wrong API. So:

# untested

import sys
import array

offset = 0
N = 252

a = array.array("f")
with open("testIN.bin", "rb") as f:
    f.seek(offset)
    a.read(f, N)
if sys.byteorder == "little":
    a.byteswap()

# process a

if sys.byteorder == "little":
    a.byteswap()
with open("testOUT.bin", "wb") as f:
    f.seek(offset)
    a.write(f)




From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Oct  6 04:33:19 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 06 Oct 2012 08:33:19 GMT
Subject: try/except KeyError vs "if name in ..."
References: <k4oj0d$qgl$1@thue.elzevir.fr>
Message-ID: <506feccf$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 08:27:25 +0200, Manuel P?gouri?-Gonnard wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I was looking at the example found here [1] which begins with:
> 
> [1] http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/imp.html#examples
> 
> def __import__(name, globals=None, locals=None, fromlist=None):
>     # Fast path: see if the module has already been imported. try:
>         return sys.modules[name]
>     except KeyError:
>         pass
> 
> I was wondering if the formulation
> 
>     if name in sys.modules:
>         return sys.modules[name]
> 
> would be equivalent. IOW, is using try/except here only a matter of
> style or a necessity?

Mostly style, but not entirely.

If you expect that most of the time the module will be found, the 
try...except version will be faster. If you expect that most of the time 
the module will not be found, the "if name in" version will be faster.

But see also:

> I'm suspecting that maybe, in multithreaded environments, the second
> option may be subject to a race condition, if another thread removes
> name frome sys.modules between the if and the return, but as I'm not
> very familiar (yet) with Python threads, I'm not sure it is a real
> concern here.

In practice, no, it would be very unusual for another thread to remove 
the name from sys.modules. So don't do that :)

But in principle, yes, it is a race condition and yes it is a (small) 
concern. Since it is so easy to avoid even this tiny risk, why not use 
the try...except version and avoid it completely?



-- 
Steven


From gd.usenet at spamfence.net  Sat Oct  6 04:49:55 2012
From: gd.usenet at spamfence.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther?= Dietrich)
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2012 10:49:55 +0200
Subject: try/except KeyError vs "if name in ..."
References: <k4oj0d$qgl$1@thue.elzevir.fr>
Message-ID: <gd.usenet-911EAC.10495506102012@dwarf.main.lan>

Manuel P?gouri?-Gonnard <mpg at elzevir.fr> wrote:

>Hi,
>I was looking at the example found here [1] which begins with:
>
>[1] http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/imp.html#examples
>
>def __import__(name, globals=None, locals=None, fromlist=None):
>    # Fast path: see if the module has already been imported.
>    try:
>        return sys.modules[name]
>    except KeyError:
>        pass
>
>I was wondering if the formulation
>
>    if name in sys.modules:
>        return sys.modules[name]
>
>would be equivalent. IOW, is using try/except here only a matter of
>style or a necessity?

Somewhere I read a text regarding 'try:' versus 'if'. If you take the 
probabitility into consideration, how many times the test will fail or 
succeed, there are two possibilities:
- If the test will fail only on very rare occasions: Use 'try:'. When 
the statement(s) in the try-path succeed, the try:/except: construct 
will not consume additional execution time (not even for the test). The 
statements will just be executed as they are. Only in the (rare) case of 
failure, the exception handling will take additional execution time (a 
considerably big amount). The fact, that in python it is not named 
'error handling', but 'exception handling' reflects this. The failure 
should be the exception, also in matters of occurrence.
- If the relation between success and failure is not predictable, or if 
the case of failure will be frequent, use 'if'. The failure of a 'try:' 
gives you a penalty in form of consumption of a high amount of execution 
time. So, in these constellations, it is better to accept the relatively 
small amount of execution time taken by the explicit test.

Obviously, you can use 'try:' only, if there is the possibility to 
produce an exception on failure. In the other cases you must use the 
explicit test by 'if'.


>I'm suspecting that maybe, in multithreaded environments, the second
>option may be subject to a race condition, if another thread removes
>name frome sys.modules between the if and the return, but as I'm not
>very familiar (yet) with Python threads, I'm not sure it is a real
>concern here.

Your idea sounds reasonable, but I also am not yet familiar with threads.


>And maybe there are other reasons I'm completely missing for prefering
>EAFP over LBYL here?

One reason might be what I described above.



Best regards,

G?nther


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 05:10:20 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 02:10:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Executing untrusted scripts in a sandboxed environment
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1894.1349507969.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <4hrls608xbax633ej6s1n54j.1349475464556@email.android.com>
	<mailman.1894.1349507969.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3585c6f6-4152-4163-873b-396a0f73ba3b@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, 6 October 2012 12:49:29 UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico  wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Robin Krahl <me at robin-krahl.de> wrote:
> 
> > Hi all,
> 
> >
> 
> > I need to execute untrusted scripts in my Python application. To avoid security issues, I want to use a sandboxed environment. This means that the script authors have no access to the file system. They may only access objects, modules and classes that are "flagged" or "approved" for scripting.
> 
> >
> 
> > I read that I will not be able to do this with Python scripts. (See SandboxedPython page in the Python wiki [0] and several SE.com questions, e. g. [1].) So my question is: What is the best way to "embed" a script engine in a sandboxed environment that has access to the Python modules and classes that I provide?
> 
> 
> 
> With extreme difficulty. A while back (couple years maybe? I don't
> 
> remember), I ignored everyone's warnings and tried to make a sandboxed
> 
> Python, embedded in a C++ application. It failed in sandboxing. With
> 
> just some trivial tinkering using Python's introspection facilities, a
> 
> couple of python-list people managed to read and write files, and
> 
> other equally dangerous actions. Shortly thereafter, we solved the
> 
> problem completely... by switching to JavaScript.
> 
> 
> 
> Embedding CPython in an application simply doesn't afford sandboxing.
> 
> To what extent do you actually need to run untrusted Python? Can you,
> 
> for instance, sandbox the entire process (which wasn't an option for
> 
> what we were doing)? Perhaps chrooting the Python interpreter will do
> 
> what you need. But there may still be leaks, I don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisA

Something like ast.literal_eval may be useful.


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 05:11:54 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 02:11:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Executing untrusted scripts in a sandboxed environment
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1876.1349476204.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1876.1349476204.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <90140a07-b532-4de7-b764-233d1bb487b4@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, 6 October 2012 04:00:08 UTC+5:30, Robin Krahl  wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I need to execute untrusted scripts in my Python application. To avoid security issues, I want to use a sandboxed environment. This means that the script authors have no access to the file system. They may only access objects, modules and classes that are "flagged" or "approved" for scripting.
> 
> I read that I will not be able to do this with Python scripts. (See SandboxedPython page in the Python wiki [0] and several SE.com questions, e. g. [1].) So my question is: What is the best way to "embed" a script engine in a sandboxed environment that has access to the Python modules and classes that I provide?
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> 
> Best regards,
>     Robin
> 
> [0] http://wiki.python.org/moin/SandboxedPython
> [1] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3068139/how-can-i-sandbox-python-in-pure-python
>From http://wiki.python.org/moin/SandboxedPython
"The Java and CLR/.NET runtimes support restricted execution, and these can be utilised through the Jython and IronPython variants of Python (as well as by other languages, obviously)."
You can also check out http://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/sandbox.html for PyPy's sandbox


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 05:11:54 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 02:11:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Executing untrusted scripts in a sandboxed environment
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1876.1349476204.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1876.1349476204.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <90140a07-b532-4de7-b764-233d1bb487b4@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, 6 October 2012 04:00:08 UTC+5:30, Robin Krahl  wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I need to execute untrusted scripts in my Python application. To avoid security issues, I want to use a sandboxed environment. This means that the script authors have no access to the file system. They may only access objects, modules and classes that are "flagged" or "approved" for scripting.
> 
> I read that I will not be able to do this with Python scripts. (See SandboxedPython page in the Python wiki [0] and several SE.com questions, e. g. [1].) So my question is: What is the best way to "embed" a script engine in a sandboxed environment that has access to the Python modules and classes that I provide?
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> 
> Best regards,
>     Robin
> 
> [0] http://wiki.python.org/moin/SandboxedPython
> [1] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3068139/how-can-i-sandbox-python-in-pure-python
>From http://wiki.python.org/moin/SandboxedPython
"The Java and CLR/.NET runtimes support restricted execution, and these can be utilised through the Jython and IronPython variants of Python (as well as by other languages, obviously)."
You can also check out http://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/sandbox.html for PyPy's sandbox


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 05:23:16 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 19:23:16 +1000
Subject: Executing untrusted scripts in a sandboxed environment
In-Reply-To: <3585c6f6-4152-4163-873b-396a0f73ba3b@googlegroups.com>
References: <4hrls608xbax633ej6s1n54j.1349475464556@email.android.com>
	<mailman.1894.1349507969.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<3585c6f6-4152-4163-873b-396a0f73ba3b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqsHb=0VDBDOfB=w9MN1SGY7AWWaw24Mjo41VJ4LVBzpg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 7:10 PM, Ramchandra Apte <maniandram01 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, 6 October 2012 12:49:29 UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico  wrote:
>> On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Robin Krahl <me at robin-krahl.de> wrote:
>> > What is the best way to "embed" a script engine in a sandboxed environment that has access to the Python modules and classes that I provide?
>>
>> With extreme difficulty.
>
> Something like ast.literal_eval may be useful.

Not really; it's hardly sufficient. That sort of feature is handy for
making an expression evaluator; for instance, you could implement a
powerful calculator with it. But it's far too limited for most
applications.

The main problem is permitting some of the basic builtins (like True,
False, len(), etc), without those objects being used as gateways. Did
you know, for instance, that len.__self__.open() can be used to read
and write files on the file system?

ChrisA


From mpg at elzevir.fr  Sat Oct  6 06:08:26 2012
From: mpg at elzevir.fr (Manuel =?iso-8859-1?q?P=E9gouri=E9-Gonnard?=)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 12:08:26 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: try/except KeyError vs "if name in ..."
References: <k4oj0d$qgl$1@thue.elzevir.fr>
	<506feccf$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <k4ovuq$43p$1@thue.elzevir.fr>

Steven D'Aprano scripsit :

> If you expect that most of the time the module will be found, the 
> try...except version will be faster. If you expect that most of the time 
> the module will not be found, the "if name in" version will be faster.
>
Ok.

In the particular case of __import__, I guess speed is not crucial since
I doubt import often happen within a program's inner loop. But I'll
remember that point for other cases anyway.

>> I'm suspecting that maybe, in multithreaded environments, the second
>> option may be subject to a race condition, if another thread removes
>> name frome sys.modules between the if and the return, but as I'm not
>> very familiar (yet) with Python threads, I'm not sure it is a real
>> concern here.
>
> In practice, no, it would be very unusual for another thread to remove 
> the name from sys.modules. So don't do that :)
>
That wasn't my intention. But sometimes other people may be "creative" :)

> But in principle, yes, it is a race condition and yes it is a (small) 
> concern. Since it is so easy to avoid even this tiny risk, why not use 
> the try...except version and avoid it completely?
>
Ok.

Thanks for your explanations.

-- 
Manuel P?gouri?-Gonnard - http://people.math.jussieu.fr/~mpg/




From sajuptpm at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 06:09:30 2012
From: sajuptpm at gmail.com (sajuptpm)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 03:09:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unpaking Tuple
Message-ID: <801f0e2c-7d1d-4e91-bec5-78c5e53a70ec@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am using python 2.6.

I need a way to make following code working without any ValueError .
>>> a, b, c, d = (1,2,3,4)
>>> a, b, c, d = (1,2,3).

Note: Number of values in the tuple will change dynamically.


I know in python 3, you can do `a, b, c, *d = (1, 2, 3)` and then d will contain any elements that didn't fit into a,b,c.

Regards,
Saju


From mpg at elzevir.fr  Sat Oct  6 06:09:35 2012
From: mpg at elzevir.fr (Manuel =?iso-8859-1?q?P=E9gouri=E9-Gonnard?=)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 12:09:35 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: try/except KeyError vs "if name in ..."
References: <k4oj0d$qgl$1@thue.elzevir.fr>
	<gd.usenet-911EAC.10495506102012@dwarf.main.lan>
Message-ID: <k4p00v$467$1@thue.elzevir.fr>

G?nther Dietrich scripsit :

> Somewhere I read a text regarding 'try:' versus 'if'. If you take the 
> probabitility into consideration, how many times the test will fail or 
> succeed, there are two possibilities: [...]

Ok, thanks for the details!

-- 
Manuel P?gouri?-Gonnard - http://people.math.jussieu.fr/~mpg/




From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Oct  6 06:27:52 2012
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 03:27:52 -0700
Subject: Unpaking Tuple
In-Reply-To: <801f0e2c-7d1d-4e91-bec5-78c5e53a70ec@googlegroups.com>
References: <801f0e2c-7d1d-4e91-bec5-78c5e53a70ec@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRSH2NHAd3nXoRHGKsO+p8+KZsW-1tTbmnb91ZUaUbGhBQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 3:09 AM, sajuptpm <sajuptpm at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am using python 2.6.
>
> I need a way to make following code working without any ValueError .
>>>> a, b, c, d = (1,2,3,4)
>>>> a, b, c, d = (1,2,3).
>
> Note: Number of values in the tuple will change dynamically.

Then you arguably want a list, not a tuple.

But at any rate:
shortfall = 4 - len(your_tuple)
your_tuple += (None,) * shortfall # assuming None is a suitable default
a, b, c, d = your_tuple

If you also need to handle the "too many items" case, use slicing:
a, b, c, d = your_tuple[:4]

Cheers,
Chris


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Oct  6 06:36:49 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2012 11:36:49 +0100
Subject: Executing untrusted scripts in a sandboxed environment
In-Reply-To: <4hrls608xbax633ej6s1n54j.1349475464556@email.android.com>
References: <4hrls608xbax633ej6s1n54j.1349475464556@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <k4p1i2$gru$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 05/10/2012 23:22, Robin Krahl wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I need to execute untrusted scripts in my Python application. To avoid security issues, I want to use a sandboxed environment. This means that the script authors have no access to the file system. They may only access objects, modules and classes that are "flagged" or "approved" for scripting.
>
> I read that I will not be able to do this with Python scripts. (See SandboxedPython page in the Python wiki [0] and several SE.com questions, e. g. [1].) So my question is: What is the best way to "embed" a script engine in a sandboxed environment that has access to the Python modules and classes that I provide?
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Best regards,
>      Robin
>
> [0] http://wiki.python.org/moin/SandboxedPython
> [1] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3068139/how-can-i-sandbox-python-in-pure-python
>

As good a starting point as any 
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t716131-challenge-escape-from-the-pysandbox.html 
?

Also throw "python experimental sandbox" into your search engine and 
follow your nose, something might come up smelling of roses :)

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From d at davea.name  Sat Oct  6 07:36:11 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2012 07:36:11 -0400
Subject: try/except KeyError vs "if name in ..."
In-Reply-To: <k4oj0d$qgl$1@thue.elzevir.fr>
References: <k4oj0d$qgl$1@thue.elzevir.fr>
Message-ID: <507017AB.8090507@davea.name>

On 10/06/2012 02:27 AM, Manuel P?gouri?-Gonnard wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I was looking at the example found here [1] which begins with:
>
> [1] http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/imp.html#examples
>
> def __import__(name, globals=None, locals=None, fromlist=None):
>     # Fast path: see if the module has already been imported.
>     try:
>         return sys.modules[name]
>     except KeyError:
>         pass
>
> I was wondering if the formulation
>
>     if name in sys.modules:
>         return sys.modules[name]
>
> would be equivalent. IOW, is using try/except here only a matter of
> style or a necessity?
>
> I'm suspecting that maybe, in multithreaded environments, the second
> option may be subject to a race condition, if another thread removes
> name frome sys.modules between the if and the return, but as I'm not
> very familiar (yet) with Python threads, I'm not sure it is a real
> concern here.
>
> And maybe there are other reasons I'm completely missing for prefering
> EAFP over LBYL here?
>
> Thanks in advance for your comments.
>

Guidelines for writing library code may very well be different than for
writing your application.  And if your application is trying to do
something similar with *import*, chances are that it's calling a library
function that already starts with the test against sys.modules.  So if
this is an application question, the answer is probably "don't do either
one, just do the import, checking for the exceptions that it may throw."

The distinction in performance between the success and failure modes of
the try/catch isn't nearly as large as one of the other responses might
lead you to believe.  For example, a for loop generally terminates with
a raise (of StopIteration exception), and that doesn't convince us to
replace it with a while loop.  Besides, in this case, the except code
effectively includes the entire import, which would completely swamp the
overhead of the raise.

If we assume the question was more generally about EAFT vs. LBYL, and
not just about the case of accessing the system data structure
sys.modules, then the issues change somewhat.

If we do a LBYL, we have to know that we've covered all interesting
cases with our test.  Multithreading is one case where we can get a race
condition.  There are times when we might be able to know either that
there are not other threads, or that the other threads don't mess with
the stuff we're testing.  For example, there are enough problems with
import and threads that we might just have a development policy that (in
this program) we will do all our imports before starting any additional
threads, and that we will never try to unload an import, single threaded
or not.  But for other conditions, we might be affected either by the
system or by other processes within it.  Or even affected by other
asynchronous events over a network.

If we do an EAFP, then we have to figure out what exceptions are
possible.  However, adding more exceptions with different treatments is
quite easy, and they don't all have to be done at the same level.  Some
may be left for our caller to deal with.  I think the major thing that
people mind about try/catch is that it seems to break up the program
flow.  However, that paradigm grows on you as you get accustomed to it.

-- 

DaveA



From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 08:38:38 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 05:38:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sum function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1872.1349469566.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <7c7beccb-72e4-4cfb-958d-4a7235076fb3@googlegroups.com>
	<12a372ba-8809-4fff-bca5-55a03e61ca82@googlegroups.com>
	<04412893-e6ba-43cc-8d9c-7867f82af4d1@googlegroups.com>
	<d52e3cdb-9568-4963-8ff2-09e619f984c4@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1863.1349463163.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<397c5421-e28b-482e-82ce-6bf693056d51@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1872.1349469566.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <36bb20b7-d2cf-489d-b7af-8efc56cbb4c0@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, 6 October 2012 02:09:56 UTC+5:30, Dave Angel  wrote:
> On 10/05/2012 04:09 PM, Mike wrote:
> 
> > Terry,
> 
> >
> 
> > I am not using the mail client. I am just posting on the site.
> 
> 
> 
> And which site would that be (that you're using)?  There are a few.  I'm
> 
> guessing you use google-groups.  And all of them get gatewayed to the
> 
> actual list, with differing numbers of bugs. 
> 
> 
> 
> I use email to access it directly.  I solve one of the duplicate-message
> 
> problems with google groups by automatically deleting any message
> 
> addressed to google-groups.  There are about 100 such messages each month.
> 
> 
> 
> Another problem is that lots of these gateways post to both the
> 
> newsgroup and to the python-list.
>
I found out earlier that this was why my posts was being double-posted in Google Groups.
> 
> 
> >
> 
> > Something wrong with this site. When you do individual reply, it does the double posting which it shouldn't. See "Ramachandra Apte's" reply. It is posted twice too.
> 
> >
> 
> > Thanks
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> DaveA



From roy at panix.com  Sat Oct  6 08:46:28 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2012 08:46:28 -0400
Subject: Unpaking Tuple
References: <801f0e2c-7d1d-4e91-bec5-78c5e53a70ec@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1898.1349519275.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-289A2F.08462806102012@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1898.1349519275.27098.python-list at python.org>,
 Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:

> But at any rate:
> shortfall = 4 - len(your_tuple)
> your_tuple += (None,) * shortfall # assuming None is a suitable default
> a, b, c, d = your_tuple
> 
> If you also need to handle the "too many items" case, use slicing:
> a, b, c, d = your_tuple[:4]

I usually handle both of those cases at the same time:

>>> a, b, c, d = (my_tuple + (None,) * 4)[:4]


From rodrick.brown at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 09:25:20 2012
From: rodrick.brown at gmail.com (Rodrick Brown)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 09:25:20 -0400
Subject: Executing untrusted scripts in a sandboxed environment
In-Reply-To: <4hrls608xbax633ej6s1n54j.1349475464556@email.android.com>
References: <4hrls608xbax633ej6s1n54j.1349475464556@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <-919205995499869234@unknownmsgid>

On Oct 5, 2012, at 6:32 PM, Robin Krahl <me at robin-krahl.de> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I need to execute untrusted scripts in my Python application. To avoid security issues, I want to use a sandboxed environment. This means that the script authors have no access to the file system. They may only access objects, modules and classes that are "flagged" or "approved" for scripting.
>
> I read that I will not be able to do this with Python scripts. (See SandboxedPython page in the Python wiki [0] and several SE.com questions, e. g. [1].) So my question is: What is the best way to "embed" a script engine in a sandboxed environment that has access to the Python modules and classes that I provide?

Checkout udacity.com I think there is a writeup on stackoverflow on
how they accomplished their sandbox runtime env.

>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Best regards,
>    Robin
>
> [0] http://wiki.python.org/moin/SandboxedPython
> [1] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3068139/how-can-i-sandbox-python-in-pure-python
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Sat Oct  6 09:26:44 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 13:26:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: write binary with struct.pack_into
References: <1349494056881-4991234.post@n6.nabble.com>
	<mailman.1891.1349499136.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k4pbik$6qf$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-06, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Oct 2012 20:27:36 -0700 (PDT), palmeira <palmeira at gmail.com>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>> 
>> #WRITE
>> fb=open('testOUT.bin')
>
> 	Unless you specify otherwise, open() defaults to read-only

It also defaults to 'text' mode which does cr/lf translaction.  That
will break both reads and writes on any binary file containing 0x0a
and 0x0d bytes.

-- 
Grant


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 09:52:47 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 23:52:47 +1000
Subject: write binary with struct.pack_into
In-Reply-To: <k4pbik$6qf$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <1349494056881-4991234.post@n6.nabble.com>
	<mailman.1891.1349499136.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k4pbik$6qf$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmor9_7EzMBgogk7QCxO-T4M7a-A-M3XHQeCPk9Ro3JoAg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 11:26 PM, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 2012-10-06, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 5 Oct 2012 20:27:36 -0700 (PDT), palmeira <palmeira at gmail.com>
>> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>>
>>>
>>> #WRITE
>>> fb=open('testOUT.bin')
>>
>>       Unless you specify otherwise, open() defaults to read-only
>
> It also defaults to 'text' mode which does cr/lf translaction.  That
> will break both reads and writes on any binary file containing 0x0a
> and 0x0d bytes.

And, in Python 3, it'll be returning Unicode characters too, unless
the decode fails. You definitely want binary mode.

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Oct  6 11:08:38 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 06 Oct 2012 15:08:38 GMT
Subject: Unpaking Tuple
References: <801f0e2c-7d1d-4e91-bec5-78c5e53a70ec@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1898.1349519275.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-289A2F.08462806102012@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <50704975$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 08:46:28 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:

> In article <mailman.1898.1349519275.27098.python-list at python.org>,
>  Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:
> 
>> But at any rate:
>> shortfall = 4 - len(your_tuple)
>> your_tuple += (None,) * shortfall # assuming None is a suitable default
>> a, b, c, d = your_tuple
>> 
>> If you also need to handle the "too many items" case, use slicing: a,
>> b, c, d = your_tuple[:4]
> 
> I usually handle both of those cases at the same time:
> 
>>>> a, b, c, d = (my_tuple + (None,) * 4)[:4]


While that's fine for small tuples, if somebody wanted to mess with you, 
and passed (say) a million-item tuple, that would unnecessarily copy all 
million items before throwing all but four away.

For the sake of a two-liner instead of a one-liner, you can avoid such 
nasty surprises:

my_tuple = my_tuple[:4]
a,b,c,d = my_tuple if len(my_tuple) == 4 else (my_tuple + (None,)*4)[:4]

A similar solution:

a,b,c,d = (my_tuple[:4] + (None, None, None, None))[:4]

Here's a dumb one-liner, good for making people laugh at you:

a,b,c,d = (x for i,x in enumerate(my_tuple + (None,)*4) if i < 4)

and an obfuscated solution:

from itertools import izip_longest as izip
a,b,c,d = (None if x == (None,None) else x[0][1] for x in izip(zip
('izip', my_tuple), (None for izip in 'izip')))


But in my opinion, the best solution of all is a three-liner:

if len(my_tuple) < 4:
    my_tuple += (None,)*(4 - len(my_tuple))
a,b,c,d = my_tuple[4:]



-- 
Steven


From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 11:31:16 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 16:31:16 +0100
Subject: Combinations of lists
In-Reply-To: <CAAvjzF3MgMCkXLEA4kREzfs36RhQcOoiH5F+jR1XgNtH8d-2Uw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <506C4B23.6020809@gmail.com>
	<CAHVvXxSOkSEsMVR=3Yh8CMx+qDFd=hd=wK6U8sW96WKXpqk5AA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qUy8e-Micsi_B3X7+8Z4Co-4xi1E6ovnfwwXf8j4n9S8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAvjzF0KWVspZikM+xa_XXKOmsMq+mybPGo_5UfpAr=UKMHw0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qU1T42YFcE5VSPDTOyXud3anwPSptDvOF9MHxoR5H3ftA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAvjzF3MgMCkXLEA4kREzfs36RhQcOoiH5F+jR1XgNtH8d-2Uw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qUGWDLEb3CqxCfucMwv528KHe9DJ8U+=-s2K+rgvm4dEw@mail.gmail.com>

On 4 October 2012 16:12, Steen Lysgaard <boxeakasteen at gmail.com> wrote:

> 2012/10/4 Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com>:
> > On 3 October 2012 21:15, Steen Lysgaard <boxeakasteen at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> thanks for your interest. Sorry for not being completely clear, yes
> >> the length of m will always be half of the length of h.
> >
> >
> > (Please don't top post)
> >
> > I have a solution to this, then.
> > It's not short or fast, but it's a lot faster than yours.
>

<snip>

 > This is quite naive, because I don't know how to properly implement
> > force_unique_combinations, but it runs. I hope this is right. If you need
> > significantly more speed your best chance is probably Cython or C,
> although
> > I don't doubt 10x more speed may well be possible from within Python.
> >
> >
> > Also, 88888 Dihedral is a bot, or at least pretending like crazy to be
> one.
>
> Great, I've now got a solution much faster than what I could come up with.
> Thanks to the both of you.
>

Don't use it though :P. I've something better, now I've used a few
sanity-points up [it's much more interesting to solve *other* people's
problems].

Please note that my implementations (old and new) return duplicates when
the second list contains duplicates. It's fixable, but I'll only bother if
you need it fixed.

It runs in a very consistent 55% of the time, but it is longer. Here y'are.

"""Super algorithm."""
>
> from itertools import combinations
> from collections import Counter
>
> def multiples(counter):
> """Counter -> set.
>
> Returns the set of values that occur multiple times.
>  """
> multiples = set()
>
> for item, number in counter.items():
>  if number > 1:
> multiples.add(item)
>
> return multiples
>
> #@profile
> def pairwise_combinations(counter, countermultiples, counterset, length,
> charmap):
> # length is a LIE!
> """Get the permutations of two lists.
>
> Do not call this directly unless you want to hassle yourself.
> Use the wrapper provided, list_permute, instead.
>  """
>
> # We will do the combinations in pairs, as each pair will not have order
> and so
>  # [1, 2, 3, 4] is equivilant to [2, 1, 4, 3] but not [1, 3, 2, 4].
>
> # This means that we get the full permutations without ever filtering.
>
> # Each pair along is a combination.
> # We are combination-ing a set to prevent dulicates.
>  # As the combinations are of length 2, the only ones this will
> # miss are of the type [x, x] (two of the same).
>  # This is accounted for by countermultiples.
> pairs = combinations(counterset, 2)
>
> # Prepend with this
>  length -= 1
> prefix_char = charmap[length]
>
> # There's not reason to recurse, so don't bother with a lot of stuff
>  if not length:
> for p_a, p_b in pairs:
> yield [prefix_char+p_a, prefix_char+p_b]
>  for p in countermultiples:
> yield [prefix_char+p, prefix_char+p]
> return
>
> for p_a, p_b in pairs:
> # Edit scope
> # The recursion wont be able to use items we've already used
>  counter[p_a] -= 1
> counter_p_a = counter[p_a] # Quickref
> if   counter_p_a == 0: counterset.remove(p_a) # None left
>  elif counter_p_a == 1: countermultiples.remove(p_a) # Not plural
>
> counter[p_b] -= 1
> counter_p_b = counter[p_b] # Quickref
>  if   counter_p_b == 0: counterset.remove(p_b) # None left
> elif counter_p_b == 1: countermultiples.remove(p_b) # Not plural
>
> # Recurse
> # Do the same, but for the next pair along
> own_yield = [prefix_char+p_a, prefix_char+p_b]
>  for delegated_yield in pairwise_combinations(counter, countermultiples,
> counterset, length, charmap):
> yield own_yield + delegated_yield
>
> # Reset scope
> counter[p_a] += 1
> if   counter_p_a == 0: counterset.add(p_a)
>  elif counter_p_a == 1: countermultiples.add(p_a)
>
> counter[p_b] += 1
> if   counter_p_b == 0: counterset.add(p_b)
>  elif counter_p_b == 1: countermultiples.add(p_b)
>
>
> # Now do the same for countermultiples
>  # This is not itertools.chain'd because this way
> # is faster and I get to micro-optomize inside
>  for p in countermultiples:
> # Edit scope
> # The recursion wont be able to use items we've already used
>  counter[p] -= 2
> counter_p = counter[p] # Quickref
>
> if   counter_p == 0:
>  counterset.remove(p) # None left
> countermultiples.remove(p) # Must have been in countermultiples, none left
>
> elif counter_p == 1:
> countermultiples.remove(p) # Not plural
>
> # Recurse
>  # Do the same, but for the next pair along
> own_yield = [prefix_char+p, prefix_char+p]
> for delegated_yield in pairwise_combinations(counter, countermultiples,
> counterset, length, charmap):
>  yield own_yield + delegated_yield
>
> # Reset scope
> counter[p] += 2
>
> if   counter_p == 0:
> counterset.add(p)
> countermultiples.add(p)
>
> elif counter_p == 1:
> countermultiples.add(p)
>
> def list_permute(first, second):
> """Get the permutations of two lists as according to what you want, which
> isn't really the
>  permutations of two lists but something close to it. It does what it
> needs to, I think.
>
> This DOES NOT work when <second> contains duplicates, as the result has
> duplicates. The other
>  of mine does not work either. If this is a problem, it should be
> fixable: sort <second>
> and when you encounter the duplicates generate in groups bigger than 2.
> You cannot do as above
>  for pairs, so an intermittent filtering method will work best. I won't
> implement this if it's
> unneeded, though.
>
> This runs in 55% of the time of my previous one, with over twice the
> number of lines.
> W007! Lines!
>  """
> count = Counter(first)
> return pairwise_combinations(count, multiples(count), set(count),
> len(first)//2, list(reversed(second)))
>
> # TEST #
>
> second = "abcde"
> first = sorted((second+second).upper())
>
> n = 0
> for _ in list_permute(first, second): n += 1
> print(n)


I release this under whatever permissive licence you want.
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From news at blinne.net  Sat Oct  6 11:55:49 2012
From: news at blinne.net (Alexander Blinne)
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2012 17:55:49 +0200
Subject: write binary with struct.pack_into
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1889.1349494066.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1889.1349494066.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <50705485$0$6629$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

First, you should consider reading the documentation of
struct.unpack_from and struct.pack_into at
http://docs.python.org/library/struct.html quite carefully. It says,
that these commands take a parameter called offset, which names the
location of the data in a buffer (e.g. an opened file).

example:

bloco='>%df' % (252)	        # Format string (252 floats)
fa = open('testIN.bin', 'rb')   # open for reading in binary mode
off = 0           # suppose i want to read block at beginning of file
my_array=struct.unpack_from(bloco, fa, off)  #read data


now write them to another file:

fb = open('testOUT.bin', 'r+b')   # open for updating in binary mode
off = 0           # suppose i want to write block at beginning of file
struct.pack_into(bloco, fb, off, *my_array)  #write data to testOUT




From jason at powerpull.net  Sat Oct  6 13:14:47 2012
From: jason at powerpull.net (Jason Friedman)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 11:14:47 -0600
Subject: parse an environment file
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmo62iDiirpaKOE7pVj2VYdJ2hxZF5y_RWm1=JH03=u5wQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANy1k1i7XA3pTGeZeWk8V4osPkRoWxkSQJehhix9nHzDzO3HTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANy1k1g1dt6GQR80LWMkBt+YXzZXxtkUSV=qamWsS8mZXiyaAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrcsPgtcy6Aa5KJ8mRjFuB5b-FBanVQJ1o0M_PnHVpL2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANy1k1hzHqODvV7Eu64maOfCx8Os48wro56HG=uheyjqUos-uQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmq2p5FLq8_w35qguoBhckBTdohb419j_jCWuvTP9vjKog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANy1k1ifxed+V8v=sG+hU+-TXd+xzo8B0VBcGydardmGLtZNyw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmo62iDiirpaKOE7pVj2VYdJ2hxZF5y_RWm1=JH03=u5wQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANy1k1iga9nxiZno16gUEBeQA+ULn7h9o8Xz8oDG-TQw6nbN8g@mail.gmail.com>

> The only canned solution for parsing a bash script is bash. Think
> about it the other way around: If you wanted to have a Python variable
> made available to a bash script, the obvious thing to do is to invoke
> Python. It's the same thing.

I scratched my own itch:
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/578280-parse-profile/.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 13:33:16 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 04:33:16 +1100
Subject: parse an environment file
In-Reply-To: <CANy1k1iga9nxiZno16gUEBeQA+ULn7h9o8Xz8oDG-TQw6nbN8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANy1k1i7XA3pTGeZeWk8V4osPkRoWxkSQJehhix9nHzDzO3HTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANy1k1g1dt6GQR80LWMkBt+YXzZXxtkUSV=qamWsS8mZXiyaAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrcsPgtcy6Aa5KJ8mRjFuB5b-FBanVQJ1o0M_PnHVpL2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANy1k1hzHqODvV7Eu64maOfCx8Os48wro56HG=uheyjqUos-uQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmq2p5FLq8_w35qguoBhckBTdohb419j_jCWuvTP9vjKog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANy1k1ifxed+V8v=sG+hU+-TXd+xzo8B0VBcGydardmGLtZNyw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmo62iDiirpaKOE7pVj2VYdJ2hxZF5y_RWm1=JH03=u5wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANy1k1iga9nxiZno16gUEBeQA+ULn7h9o8Xz8oDG-TQw6nbN8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoTMLsAjojMiV90r0i2mrPXOkcV9=WYP4jA7qrk-33t9Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 4:14 AM, Jason Friedman <jason at powerpull.net> wrote:
>> The only canned solution for parsing a bash script is bash. Think
>> about it the other way around: If you wanted to have a Python variable
>> made available to a bash script, the obvious thing to do is to invoke
>> Python. It's the same thing.
>
> I scratched my own itch:
> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/578280-parse-profile/.

And there you have it! A subset of bash syntax and a Python parser. Job done!

ChrisA


From owens.darryl.lee at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 14:43:58 2012
From: owens.darryl.lee at gmail.com (Darryl Owens)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 11:43:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: I am just trying to find out if there is any relevant/current
	research in the production of a generic quality assurance tool for my
	PhD.
Message-ID: <62ab66e8-c647-4185-8be6-3b7ce5e61df8@googlegroups.com>

I am currently starting my PhD in software quality assurance and have been doing a lot of reading round this subject. I am just trying to find out if there is any relevant/current research in the production of a generic quality assurance tool i.e. a tool/methodology that can accept many languages for the following areas:
?	Problems in code/coding errors
?	Compiler bugs
?	Language bugs
?	Users mathematical model
I would greatly appreciate any input and advice in this area, feel free to repost on this topic and/or contact me at: owens.darryl.lee at gmail.com

Thank you in advance

Darryl Owens


From vasudevram at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 14:57:58 2012
From: vasudevram at gmail.com (vasudevram)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 11:57:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fmap(), "inverse" of Python map() function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1882.1349479899.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <727ec5d8-d292-4012-ba87-da77a1040c6a@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidmE5_LyKfEGqAGeN0Uv+g1fFo+ztjhZdr3b3vbRRnTvJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABicbJKNa18Qw5sN-kkxv+jOnbXF868wJGaaZ+T9Vsa3v8vrkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidkrUcLwHM_mgkcYd58y5rzDwierXR7ASzXjdxB39-DdbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1882.1349479899.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a27b49d4-408a-4e98-8f63-6c2c9bb67538@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, October 6, 2012 5:01:40 AM UTC+5:30, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Ian Kelly  wrote:
> 
> > I realize that.  My point is that the function *feels* more like a
> 
> > variant of reduce than of map.
> 
> >
> 
> >> If it's meant as a complaint, it's a poor one.
> 
> >
> 
> > It's not.
> 
> 
> 
> Fair enough all around. Sorry for misunderstanding.
> 
> 
> 
> -- Devin

Thanks to all who replied. Always good to learn something new.

- Vasudev


From vasudevram at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 14:57:58 2012
From: vasudevram at gmail.com (vasudevram)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 11:57:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fmap(), "inverse" of Python map() function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1882.1349479899.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <727ec5d8-d292-4012-ba87-da77a1040c6a@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidmE5_LyKfEGqAGeN0Uv+g1fFo+ztjhZdr3b3vbRRnTvJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABicbJKNa18Qw5sN-kkxv+jOnbXF868wJGaaZ+T9Vsa3v8vrkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidkrUcLwHM_mgkcYd58y5rzDwierXR7ASzXjdxB39-DdbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1882.1349479899.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a27b49d4-408a-4e98-8f63-6c2c9bb67538@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, October 6, 2012 5:01:40 AM UTC+5:30, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Ian Kelly  wrote:
> 
> > I realize that.  My point is that the function *feels* more like a
> 
> > variant of reduce than of map.
> 
> >
> 
> >> If it's meant as a complaint, it's a poor one.
> 
> >
> 
> > It's not.
> 
> 
> 
> Fair enough all around. Sorry for misunderstanding.
> 
> 
> 
> -- Devin

Thanks to all who replied. Always good to learn something new.

- Vasudev


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Oct  6 15:42:31 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2012 15:42:31 -0400
Subject: try/except KeyError vs "if name in ..."
In-Reply-To: <507017AB.8090507@davea.name>
References: <k4oj0d$qgl$1@thue.elzevir.fr> <507017AB.8090507@davea.name>
Message-ID: <k4q1jj$6uq$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/6/2012 7:36 AM, Dave Angel wrote:

> The distinction in performance between the success and failure modes of
> the try/catch isn't nearly as large as one of the other responses might
> lead you to believe.  For example, a for loop generally terminates with
> a raise (of StopIteration exception), and that doesn't convince us to
> replace it with a while loop.

For statement generally loop many times, up to millions of times, 
without an exception being raised, whereas while statements test the 
condition each time around the loop. So the rule 'if failure is rare 
(less than 10-20%) use try', applies here. For if/them versus 
try/except, I don't worry too much about it.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From christian at python.org  Sat Oct  6 16:08:03 2012
From: christian at python.org (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2012 22:08:03 +0200
Subject: [ann] pysha3 0.2.1 released
Message-ID: <k4q332$ht7$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hello,

today I've released pysha3 0.2.1 [1]. It's a standalone version of the
SHA-3 extension that I merged into CPython's development branch (future
3.4) a couple of hours ago. It provides the Keccak [2] cryptographic
hashing algorithm that was officially selected as SHA-3 by NIST a four
days ago. The module implements 224, 256, 384 and 512 bits digest size.
Arbitrarily-long output is not supported by the module as it's not part
of the NIST interface.

pysha3 is available for Python 2.6, 2.7, 3.2 and 3.3. It has been tested
on Linux (X86, X86_64 with gcc 4.6 and clang), FreeBSD and Windows (X86,
X86_64). 32 and 64bit Windows binaries for all supported Python versions
are available on PyPI, too.

Have fun,
Christian

[1] http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pysha3
[2] http://keccak.noekeon.org/



From vasudevram at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 18:07:00 2012
From: vasudevram at gmail.com (vasudevram)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 15:07:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fmap(), "inverse" of Python map() function
In-Reply-To: <a27b49d4-408a-4e98-8f63-6c2c9bb67538@googlegroups.com>
References: <727ec5d8-d292-4012-ba87-da77a1040c6a@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidmE5_LyKfEGqAGeN0Uv+g1fFo+ztjhZdr3b3vbRRnTvJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABicbJKNa18Qw5sN-kkxv+jOnbXF868wJGaaZ+T9Vsa3v8vrkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidkrUcLwHM_mgkcYd58y5rzDwierXR7ASzXjdxB39-DdbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1882.1349479899.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a27b49d4-408a-4e98-8f63-6c2c9bb67538@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9b8beb5d-001b-4606-9ca3-d57aed9862ba@googlegroups.com>

 
> Thanks to all who replied. Always good to learn something new.

P.S. A reader posted a good comment with Scala as well as Python code for a compose function (basically same functionality as fmap, or more - the compose once, run many times thing). It's the 4th comment on my blog post.

- Vasudev


From vasudevram at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 18:07:00 2012
From: vasudevram at gmail.com (vasudevram)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 15:07:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fmap(), "inverse" of Python map() function
In-Reply-To: <a27b49d4-408a-4e98-8f63-6c2c9bb67538@googlegroups.com>
References: <727ec5d8-d292-4012-ba87-da77a1040c6a@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidmE5_LyKfEGqAGeN0Uv+g1fFo+ztjhZdr3b3vbRRnTvJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABicbJKNa18Qw5sN-kkxv+jOnbXF868wJGaaZ+T9Vsa3v8vrkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidkrUcLwHM_mgkcYd58y5rzDwierXR7ASzXjdxB39-DdbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1882.1349479899.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a27b49d4-408a-4e98-8f63-6c2c9bb67538@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9b8beb5d-001b-4606-9ca3-d57aed9862ba@googlegroups.com>

 
> Thanks to all who replied. Always good to learn something new.

P.S. A reader posted a good comment with Scala as well as Python code for a compose function (basically same functionality as fmap, or more - the compose once, run many times thing). It's the 4th comment on my blog post.

- Vasudev


From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 18:45:23 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2012 15:45:23 -0700
Subject: Are ABCs an anti-pattern?
In-Reply-To: <20121005195836.GA94783@snakebite.org>
References: <506AF8C9.8060406@gmail.com> <20121005195836.GA94783@snakebite.org>
Message-ID: <5070B483.1060507@gmail.com>

On 12-10-05 12:58 PM, Trent Nelson wrote:
> I like them.  In particular, I like that I can enumerate all the
> subclasses that happen to implement the ABC via the metaclass's
> __subclasses__() method.
As long as you have a common base class (which in your case is a 
requirement), then __subclasses__ works for introspecting child classes. 
It doesn't *really* have anything to do with abcs.

> I also like that I can trust Python
> not to instantiate a subclass of an ABC unless it meets all the
> interface criteria I've stipulated.
Another way to read this is that you don't trust those using your code 
to be bright enough to understand what your code is doing and what it 
requires. In my mind, this seems to somewhat contradict the philosophy 
of "we're all consenting adults here". Whether you utilize interfaces or 
not, code should be documented. Your documentation would be responsible 
for laying out the expected interface (again, whether you're using the 
interfaces or not). Code would fail at some point if a requirement on an 
interface hasn't been filled. The *one* nice thing is that it'll error 
on import rather than execution time, but to me, if your code is unit 
tested, then all these things should be caught almost immediately anyway.

 From my experience (again, *only* talking about Python here), it seem 
to me that less is generally more. Less code means less things to read 
and tie together, making it easier to grok overall (not to mention less 
overhead for the interpreter, but that's virtually moot due to the 
*very* little overhead in 99% of cases of uses features such as abcs). 
Using abcs not only lends itself to code bloat, but it also leads to 
over-engineering as once you fall into old OOP habits, you start getting 
back to un-Pythonic code (pretty subjective statement, I know :)).


Again, please don't misunderstand my intentions here. I'm not arguing 
the need for abstract base classes in a strict OOP world. I'm arguing 
them as not genuinely being Pythonic.


Thanks for your the feedback so far.

-- 
Demian Brecht
@demianbrecht
http://demianbrecht.github.com


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Sat Oct  6 21:13:46 2012
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2012 18:13:46 -0700
Subject: [ann] pysha3 0.2.1 released
In-Reply-To: <k4q332$ht7$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <k4q332$ht7$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <5070D74A.4030106@stoneleaf.us>

Christian Heimes wrote:
> today I've released pysha3 0.2.1 [1]. 
>
> pysha3 is available for Python 2.6, 2.7, 3.2 and 3.3. It has been tested
> on Linux (X86, X86_64 with gcc 4.6 and clang), FreeBSD and Windows (X86,
> X86_64). 32 and 64bit Windows binaries for all supported Python versions
> are available on PyPI, too.
> 
> [1] http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pysha3
> [2] http://keccak.noekeon.org/

Nice!  Thanks!

~Ethan~



From skippy.hammond at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 22:33:38 2012
From: skippy.hammond at gmail.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2012 13:33:38 +1100
Subject: Why is pylaucher in Python 3.3 being installed in Windows folder?
In-Reply-To: <CAHVvXxSoEjbaN0t-4h-opskxB-0eV-=Wuk1yvhcvHna=n-RDYg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6aa17d70-b4a4-44e4-aef3-46596768979f@c20g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
	<506ceea1$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzidn22x+n+XeD+Y3o-0RetukhML8R9sV6peDWnkT=rqOEAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1784.1349325016.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<61a80e13-ddeb-4d7e-9da3-1e7377f65a67@h16g2000vby.googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzid=7TQYDC7+QC4rbWkXSbS_KvUzOqLDO9F+SdC5QEkG-Bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHVvXxSoEjbaN0t-4h-opskxB-0eV-=Wuk1yvhcvHna=n-RDYg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5070EA02.7020306@gmail.com>

On 5/10/2012 2:40 AM, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
> Having them on PATH means that you can do:
>
>      > py script.py
>
> and the effect will be analogous to (in a unix shell):
>
>      $ ./script.py
>
> Of course the idea with the launcher is that you just do
>
>      > script.py

Unless you want a specific version - particularly for testing - eg:

% py -3.2 script.py

Mark



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 23:13:24 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 21:13:24 -0600
Subject: Coexistence of Python 2.x and 3.x on same OS
In-Reply-To: <314ffb69-c89b-42f6-9af1-61005056ef91@googlegroups.com>
References: <k4a5m9$l2k$1@dont-email.me>
	<314ffb69-c89b-42f6-9af1-61005056ef91@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmnoogDfZ2h+zAiYoHZ4goKRJMXo=SLAK0wubdUNu0Tsw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 1:27 AM,  <wxjmfauth at gmail.com> wrote:
> Using Python on Windows is a dream.
>
> Python uses and needs the system, but the system does
> not use Python.
>
> Every Python version is installed in its own isolated
> space, site-packages included and without any defined
> environment variable. Every Python can be seen as a
> different application.
> Knowing this, it is a no-problem to use the miscellaneous
> versions; can be with the console, with an editor, with
> .bat or .cmd files, with the Windows "start menu" launcher,
> ... like any application.
>
> The file extension is a double sword. Do not use it or
> unregister it, the msi installer allows to do this.
> It is the same task/problem as with any file, .txt, .png, ...
>
> The new Python launcher is a redondant tool.

Yes, because all scripts are only ever run by the person who wrote
them.  The main benefit here is for distribution of Python scripts
with version requirements.  Just because you can rely on your Python
installation to be in C:\Python27 doesn't mean you can rely on
somebody else's installation to be there, or on their file
associations to be configured for the correct version.


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 00:15:09 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 21:15:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: I am just trying to find out if there is any relevant/current
	research in the production of a generic quality assurance tool for my
	PhD.
In-Reply-To: <62ab66e8-c647-4185-8be6-3b7ce5e61df8@googlegroups.com>
References: <62ab66e8-c647-4185-8be6-3b7ce5e61df8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1b18a4b3-853c-4423-b116-95ed3677f8f6@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, 7 October 2012 00:13:58 UTC+5:30, Darryl Owens  wrote:
> I am currently starting my PhD in software quality assurance and have been doing a lot of reading round this subject. I am just trying to find out if there is any relevant/current research in the production of a generic quality assurance tool i.e. a tool/methodology that can accept many languages for the following areas:
> 
> ?	Problems in code/coding errors
> 
> ?	Compiler bugs
> 
> ?	Language bugs
> 
> ?	Users mathematical model
> 
> I would greatly appreciate any input and advice in this area, feel free to repost on this topic and/or contact me at: owens.darryl.lee at gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you in advance
> 
> 
> 
> Darryl Owens

Does this have anything to do with Python?

Banned from #python-offtopic till Christmas


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 00:17:33 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 21:17:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: try/except KeyError vs "if name in ..."
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1909.1349552576.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <k4oj0d$qgl$1@thue.elzevir.fr> <507017AB.8090507@davea.name>
	<mailman.1909.1349552576.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dfa56def-0295-4259-a442-8d7dddc07802@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, 7 October 2012 01:12:56 UTC+5:30, Terry Reedy  wrote:
> On 10/6/2012 7:36 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > The distinction in performance between the success and failure modes of
> 
> > the try/catch isn't nearly as large as one of the other responses might
> 
> > lead you to believe.  For example, a for loop generally terminates with
> 
> > a raise (of StopIteration exception), and that doesn't convince us to
> 
> > replace it with a while loop.
> 
> 
> 
> For statement generally loop many times, up to millions of times, 
> 
> without an exception being raised, whereas while statements test the 
> 
> condition each time around the loop. So the rule 'if failure is rare 
> 
> (less than 10-20%) use try', applies here. For if/them versus 
> 
> try/except, I don't worry too much about it.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Terry Jan Reedy

I use try and except when I need to raise exceptions e.g.:

try:
    value = vm.variables[name]
except KeyError:
    raise NameError("variable name not defined in VM's variables")


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 00:17:33 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 21:17:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: try/except KeyError vs "if name in ..."
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1909.1349552576.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <k4oj0d$qgl$1@thue.elzevir.fr> <507017AB.8090507@davea.name>
	<mailman.1909.1349552576.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dfa56def-0295-4259-a442-8d7dddc07802@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, 7 October 2012 01:12:56 UTC+5:30, Terry Reedy  wrote:
> On 10/6/2012 7:36 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > The distinction in performance between the success and failure modes of
> 
> > the try/catch isn't nearly as large as one of the other responses might
> 
> > lead you to believe.  For example, a for loop generally terminates with
> 
> > a raise (of StopIteration exception), and that doesn't convince us to
> 
> > replace it with a while loop.
> 
> 
> 
> For statement generally loop many times, up to millions of times, 
> 
> without an exception being raised, whereas while statements test the 
> 
> condition each time around the loop. So the rule 'if failure is rare 
> 
> (less than 10-20%) use try', applies here. For if/them versus 
> 
> try/except, I don't worry too much about it.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Terry Jan Reedy

I use try and except when I need to raise exceptions e.g.:

try:
    value = vm.variables[name]
except KeyError:
    raise NameError("variable name not defined in VM's variables")


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 01:02:45 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 22:02:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: I am just trying to find out if there is any relevant/current
	research in the production of a generic quality assurance tool for my
	PhD.
References: <62ab66e8-c647-4185-8be6-3b7ce5e61df8@googlegroups.com>
	<1b18a4b3-853c-4423-b116-95ed3677f8f6@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <980bf18c-75a8-46da-b9a8-7d53061716fa@ql4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 7, 9:15?am, Ramchandra Apte <maniandra... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, 7 October 2012 00:13:58 UTC+5:30, Darryl Owens ?wrote:
> > I am currently starting my PhD in software quality assurance and have been doing a lot of reading round this subject. I am just trying to find out if there is any relevant/current research in the production of a generic quality assurance tool i.e. a tool/methodology that can accept many languages for the following areas:
>
> > ? ? ? ? ?Problems in code/coding errors
>
> > ? ? ? ? ?Compiler bugs
>
> > ? ? ? ? ?Language bugs
>
> > ? ? ? ? ?Users mathematical model
>
> > I would greatly appreciate any input and advice in this area, feel free to repost on this topic and/or contact me at: owens.darryl.... at gmail.com
>
> > Thank you in advance
>
> > Darryl Owens
>
> Does this have anything to do with Python?

Why not?

>
> Banned from #python-offtopic till Christmas

Did you wait for an answer?


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 01:08:34 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 22:08:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: I am just trying to find out if there is any relevant/current
	research in the production of a generic quality assurance tool for my
	PhD.
In-Reply-To: <980bf18c-75a8-46da-b9a8-7d53061716fa@ql4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
References: <62ab66e8-c647-4185-8be6-3b7ce5e61df8@googlegroups.com>
	<1b18a4b3-853c-4423-b116-95ed3677f8f6@googlegroups.com>
	<980bf18c-75a8-46da-b9a8-7d53061716fa@ql4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e8e3811c-337c-4d46-8907-6279aa62d000@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, 7 October 2012 10:32:45 UTC+5:30, rusi  wrote:
> On Oct 7, 9:15?am, Ramchandra Apte <maniandra... at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Sunday, 7 October 2012 00:13:58 UTC+5:30, Darryl Owens ?wrote:
> 
> > > I am currently starting my PhD in software quality assurance and have been doing a lot of reading round this subject. I am just trying to find out if there is any relevant/current research in the production of a generic quality assurance tool i.e. a tool/methodology that can accept many languages for the following areas:
> 
> >
> 
> > > ? ? ? ? ?Problems in code/coding errors
> 
> >
> 
> > > ? ? ? ? ?Compiler bugs
> 
> >
> 
> > > ? ? ? ? ?Language bugs
> 
> >
> 
> > > ? ? ? ? ?Users mathematical model
> 
> >
> 
> > > I would greatly appreciate any input and advice in this area, feel free to repost on this topic and/or contact me at: owens.darryl.... at gmail.com
> 
> >
> 
> > > Thank you in advance
> 
> >
> 
> > > Darryl Owens
> 
> >
> 
> > Does this have anything to do with Python?
> 
> 
> 
> Why not?
> 
> 
> 
> >
> 
> > Banned from #python-offtopic till Christmas
> 
> 
> 
> Did you wait for an answer?

no


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 01:55:54 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 01:55:54 -0400
Subject: I am just trying to find out if there is any relevant/current
	research in the production of a generic quality assurance tool for my
	PhD.
In-Reply-To: <980bf18c-75a8-46da-b9a8-7d53061716fa@ql4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
References: <62ab66e8-c647-4185-8be6-3b7ce5e61df8@googlegroups.com>
	<1b18a4b3-853c-4423-b116-95ed3677f8f6@googlegroups.com>
	<980bf18c-75a8-46da-b9a8-7d53061716fa@ql4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJWVD++qus_y=9mRVsyh5KMJ01WrgxTAW928-ru=811Mqg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 1:02 AM, rusi <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 7, 9:15 am, Ramchandra Apte <maniandra... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sunday, 7 October 2012 00:13:58 UTC+5:30, Darryl Owens  wrote:
>> > I am currently starting my PhD in software quality assurance and have been doing a lot of reading round this subject. I am just trying to find out if there is any relevant/current research in the production of a generic quality assurance tool i.e. a tool/methodology that can accept many languages for the following areas:
>>
>> > ?        Problems in code/coding errors
>>
>> > ?        Compiler bugs
>>
>> > ?        Language bugs
>>
>> > ?        Users mathematical model
>>
The main tests for python is:

 http://docs.python.org/library/unittest.html


For other languages, and even in python, you can roll your own.

I'd begin by algorithming each particular language's calls(based on
the statistical probabilities of languages that are utilized, and
designed in a hierarchical order of the utilization), language bugs,
and mathematical models needed performed, then perform the necessary
function calls/series of calls.

Pass data, and check the returns.

CMD errors in some cases, and checking for error logs from URL calls.

I'd suggest the bug repositories for the OS, browser, or app framework
the language is launched in(version/build #, etc), or some form of url
scraping the data from these in order to correct/check known problems.


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 02:03:59 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 02:03:59 -0400
Subject: I am just trying to find out if there is any relevant/current
	research in the production of a generic quality assurance tool for my
	PhD.
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJWVD++qus_y=9mRVsyh5KMJ01WrgxTAW928-ru=811Mqg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <62ab66e8-c647-4185-8be6-3b7ce5e61df8@googlegroups.com>
	<1b18a4b3-853c-4423-b116-95ed3677f8f6@googlegroups.com>
	<980bf18c-75a8-46da-b9a8-7d53061716fa@ql4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJWVD++qus_y=9mRVsyh5KMJ01WrgxTAW928-ru=811Mqg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJWozHCri-EL=TXWgMHS=c8UQppDrGp0_SFHVYe0Jnp+mQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 1:55 AM, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 1:02 AM, rusi <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Oct 7, 9:15 am, Ramchandra Apte <maniandra... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sunday, 7 October 2012 00:13:58 UTC+5:30, Darryl Owens  wrote:
>>> > I am currently starting my PhD in software quality assurance and have been doing a lot of reading round this subject. I am just trying to find out if there is any relevant/current research in the production of a generic quality assurance tool i.e. a tool/methodology that can accept many languages for the following areas:
>>>
>>> > ?        Problems in code/coding errors
>>>
>>> > ?        Compiler bugs
>>>
>>> > ?        Language bugs
>>>
>>> > ?        Users mathematical model
>>>

You could also utilize other unittests from other languages, and roll
that into wrappers that checked for specific languages utilization,
and it's probable errors, by initiating the unittest functions with a
python call specific to the language being utilized.

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 02:16:57 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 02:16:57 -0400
Subject: I am just trying to find out if there is any relevant/current
	research in the production of a generic quality assurance tool for my
	PhD.
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJWozHCri-EL=TXWgMHS=c8UQppDrGp0_SFHVYe0Jnp+mQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <62ab66e8-c647-4185-8be6-3b7ce5e61df8@googlegroups.com>
	<1b18a4b3-853c-4423-b116-95ed3677f8f6@googlegroups.com>
	<980bf18c-75a8-46da-b9a8-7d53061716fa@ql4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJWVD++qus_y=9mRVsyh5KMJ01WrgxTAW928-ru=811Mqg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJWozHCri-EL=TXWgMHS=c8UQppDrGp0_SFHVYe0Jnp+mQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJXoj-ekO7V8S+rzA8ZmS=FY1NXNhOCB=bPNASj3RDorwg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 2:03 AM, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 1:55 AM, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 1:02 AM, rusi <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Oct 7, 9:15 am, Ramchandra Apte <maniandra... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, 7 October 2012 00:13:58 UTC+5:30, Darryl Owens  wrote:
>>>> > I am currently starting my PhD in software quality assurance and have been doing a lot of reading round this subject. I am just trying to find out if there is any relevant/current research in the production of a generic quality assurance tool i.e. a tool/methodology that can accept many languages for the following areas:
>>>>
>>>> > ?        Problems in code/coding errors
>>>>
>>>> > ?        Compiler bugs
>>>>
>>>> > ?        Language bugs
>>>>
>>>> > ?        Users mathematical model
>>>>
>

Maybe easier through checking particular error logs.


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 02:50:37 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 02:50:37 -0400
Subject: I am just trying to find out if there is any relevant/current
	research in the production of a generic quality assurance tool for my
	PhD.
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJXoj-ekO7V8S+rzA8ZmS=FY1NXNhOCB=bPNASj3RDorwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <62ab66e8-c647-4185-8be6-3b7ce5e61df8@googlegroups.com>
	<1b18a4b3-853c-4423-b116-95ed3677f8f6@googlegroups.com>
	<980bf18c-75a8-46da-b9a8-7d53061716fa@ql4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJWVD++qus_y=9mRVsyh5KMJ01WrgxTAW928-ru=811Mqg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJWozHCri-EL=TXWgMHS=c8UQppDrGp0_SFHVYe0Jnp+mQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXoj-ekO7V8S+rzA8ZmS=FY1NXNhOCB=bPNASj3RDorwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJWmvkS_JJNt9zo1ccwjPZhZi50XXnEvNc+PDVYAd07Ehg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 2:16 AM, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 2:03 AM, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 1:55 AM, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 1:02 AM, rusi <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Oct 7, 9:15 am, Ramchandra Apte <maniandra... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, 7 October 2012 00:13:58 UTC+5:30, Darryl Owens  wrote:
>>>>> > I am currently starting my PhD in software quality assurance and have been doing a lot of reading round this subject. I am just trying to find out if there is any relevant/current research in the production of a generic quality assurance tool i.e. a tool/methodology that can accept many languages for the following areas:
>>>>>
>>>>> > ?        Problems in code/coding errors
>>>>>
>>>>> > ?        Compiler bugs
>>>>>
>>>>> > ?        Language bugs
>>>>>
>>>>> > ?        Users mathematical model
>>>>>
>>
It is about 2:30 A.M. here, and I'm tossing out thoughts that could go deeper.

You're looking for:

>>>> > ?        Problems in code/coding errors
>>>>
>>>> > ?        Compiler bugs
>>>>
>>>> > ?        Language bugs
>>>>
>>>> > ?        Users mathematical model
>>>>
>

The below is the base algorithm I see for every language:

There are problems, and ways to test in every language. Some have more
advanced tests based on their usage, and those who use them.

You have identified the errors needed to be checked for:
          -Problems in code/coding errors
          -Compiler bugs
          -Language bugs
          -Users mathematical model

1. You have test methods in lots of languages for these, and you need
to parse for the file extension, or something in the code that shows
it has switched to a new language. I'm assuming classes and functions
here

2. It seems like you should have a file/script in each language to
check for as much as you can.

3. You could call these scripts via a python command line app, and
have an app to display the output, and check for know error calls
returned from the command line output(stderr/stdin/,etc), or the
browsers output/error logs.

4. You could go to a lower level.

5. You're in python, so pick the best way to wrap and execute the
above based on file extensions, and parsing, then run your test on
portions of code if the have parameters or error values, or the code
as a whole, and deal with each of the problems stated above.

This is just to begin to understand your mentality of how you want to
implement in python.

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From franck at ditter.org  Sun Oct  7 04:33:36 2012
From: franck at ditter.org (Franck Ditter)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2012 10:33:36 +0200
Subject: question on log as an instance method
Message-ID: <franck-1FDEFF.10333407102012@news.free.fr>

Hi ! Here is Python 3.2.3, MacOSX-Lion

Question : I may consider + as an hidden instance method , as
1+2 is equivalent to (1).__add__(2) ?
I also consider __abs__ as an instance method :
>>> (-2).__abs__()
2

Question 1 : could the parser cope with the mandatory space
in 1 .__add__(2) ?

Question 2 : After importing math, why can't I consider log as
an instance method, after all ?
>>> (4).__log__()
AttributeError: 'float' object has no attribute '__log__'

Thanks for your answers.

   franck


From franck at ditter.org  Sun Oct  7 04:50:38 2012
From: franck at ditter.org (Franck Ditter)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2012 10:50:38 +0200
Subject: getting the state of an object
Message-ID: <franck-1CB9C8.10503807102012@news.free.fr>

Hi !

Another question. When writing a class, I have often to
destructure the state of an object as in :

def foo(self) :
    (a,b,c,d) = (self.a,self.b,self.c,self.d)
    ... big code with a,b,c,d ...

So I use the following method :

def state(self) :
    return (self.a,self.b,self.c,self.d)

so as to write :

def foo(self) :
    (a,b,c,d) = self.state()
    ... big code with a,b,c,d ...

This is probably not the best Python way to code, is it ?
Is there a simple way to get the *ordered* list of instance
variables as given in the parameter list of __init__ ? 
__dict__ gives it but not in order...
Thanks a lot,

   franck


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Oct  7 05:47:05 2012
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 02:47:05 -0700
Subject: question on log as an instance method
In-Reply-To: <franck-1FDEFF.10333407102012@news.free.fr>
References: <franck-1FDEFF.10333407102012@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRTgQZCfpxEYk3NhdcfsQB+2QdDk=1tQMqo4nYnoLJXB7g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 1:33 AM, Franck Ditter <franck at ditter.org> wrote:
> Hi ! Here is Python 3.2.3, MacOSX-Lion
>
> Question 0 : I may consider + as an hidden instance method , as
> 1+2 is equivalent to (1).__add__(2) ?

No, it's not nearly that simple. It's technically equivalent to
operator.add(1, 2) [
http://docs.python.org/library/operator.html#operator.add ], which
hints that there's additional logic involved. Some examples of the
complexities (in the general case):
* special methods are looked up on the objects' classes, ignoring
per-instance attributes; see
http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html#special-method-lookup-for-new-style-classes
* trying to add objects of incompatible types raises TypeError rather
than AttributeError (which one might otherwise expect when a class
doesn't define __add__() [or similar])
* such TypeErrors are often raised directly by the interpreter itself,
rather than from within the body of some specific implementation of an
operator special method
* falling back to reflected methods (in the case of +, __radd__() [
http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html#object.__radd__ ])
when the normal method fails or is not defined
* returning NotImplemented triggers fallback (or if already attempting
fallback, may cause the operation to fail)

<snip>
> Question 2 : After importing math,

Why would that be relevant? Python is not generally the sort of
language that would have the mere importation of a std lib module
significantly affect language semantics.

> why can't I consider log as
> an instance method, after all ?
>>>> (4).__log__()
> AttributeError: 'float' object has no attribute '__log__'

Because Python just simply did not choose to make "take the (natural)
logarithm of" a built-in, overloadable operation (hence, in part, why
you had to `import math` to even be able to access that calculation).
And it further didn't happen to define math.log() in terms of a .log()
or .__log__() instance method.

Basically, it's somewhat arbitrary and some historical reasons are involved.

Cheers,
Chris


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Oct  7 06:04:15 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Oct 2012 10:04:15 GMT
Subject: question on log as an instance method
References: <franck-1FDEFF.10333407102012@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <5071539f$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 07 Oct 2012 10:33:36 +0200, Franck Ditter wrote:


> Question : I may consider + as an hidden instance method , as 1+2 is
> equivalent to (1).__add__(2) ? I also consider __abs__ as an instance
> method :
>>>> (-2).__abs__()
> 2

The short answer is, yes.

The *correct* answer is, not quite.

So-called "dunder" methods (Double leading and trailing UNDERscore) 
methods like __add__, __abs__, __len__ and many others are treated 
slightly differently from ordinary instance methods, but only when they 
are automatically invoked by Python.

If you explicitly call `instance.__add__(value)`, __add__ is treated as 
an ordinary instance method. But when you call `instance + value`, Python 
automatically invokes the __add__ method, but using slightly different 
method resolution rules. This is done for the sake of speed.


> Question 1 : could the parser cope with the mandatory space in 1
> .__add__(2) ?

Why not try it and see?

py> 1 .__add__(2)
3

 
> Question 2 : After importing math, why can't I consider log as an
> instance method, after all ?
>>>> (4).__log__()
> AttributeError: 'float' object has no attribute '__log__'


Because importing a module does not magically add new methods to classes.

Floats do not have a __log__ method, because they don't need one. 
Importing math doesn't create such a method. Why would it? What is the 
purpose of __log__? math.log doesn't need it.


-- 
Steven


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Oct  7 06:18:21 2012
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 03:18:21 -0700
Subject: getting the state of an object
In-Reply-To: <franck-1CB9C8.10503807102012@news.free.fr>
References: <franck-1CB9C8.10503807102012@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRRFXnJXV9CDCg8KdprmCm5B-6FY9Dq9hFac5bG6wkJyaQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 1:50 AM, Franck Ditter <franck at ditter.org> wrote:
> Hi !
>
> Another question. When writing a class, I have often to
> destructure the state of an object as in :
>
> def foo(self) :
>     (a,b,c,d) = (self.a,self.b,self.c,self.d)
>     ... big code with a,b,c,d ...

I would generally strongly frown on doing that (at least if the
destructuring is actually that trivial). The "self."s are only 5
characters; that's hardly burdensome or verbose. Just write it out
each time, i.e.:
def foo(self):
    ? code with self.a, self.b, self.c, self.d ...

Or in the extreme case, use "s" instead of "self" (using the name
"self" is just a convention; it's not a language keyword or anything).

> So I use the following method :
>
> def state(self) :
>     return (self.a,self.b,self.c,self.d)
>
> so as to write :
>
> def foo(self) :
>     (a,b,c,d) = self.state()
>     ... big code with a,b,c,d ...
>
> This is probably not the best Python way to code, is it ?

Indeed it isn't. Don't bother with the pointless destructuring.
And/or refactor your method so it's less big.

> Is there a simple way to get the *ordered* list of instance
> variables as given in the parameter list of __init__ ?

There is no guaranteed correspondence whatsoever between __init__()'s
parameters and the resulting object's instance variables. At a
minimum, such a hack would fail to account for instance variables that
are merely derived from the parameters (e.g. self.length =
len(some_list_param) ) or are initialized to constant values (e.g.
self.cache = {} ). And then there's private instance variables (e.g.
self._foo = foo_param ); if the parameter is named "_foo", you're
doing it wrong.

That said, you can obtain the names of the parameters using the
`inspect` module in the std lib.

> __dict__ gives it but not in order?

You can actually "fix" that, not that I at all recommend doing so:
http://docs.python.org/dev/reference/datamodel.html#preparing-the-class-namespace

Cheers,
Chris


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Oct  7 06:25:31 2012
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 03:25:31 -0700
Subject: question on log as an instance method
In-Reply-To: <franck-1FDEFF.10333407102012@news.free.fr>
References: <franck-1FDEFF.10333407102012@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRR0gU120S+8tOKkavYkbYHVBQOEnToJJ8TkG_mfqeaS=Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 1:33 AM, Franck Ditter <franck at ditter.org> wrote:
>

As a matter of netiquette, please don't post from a
plausible-but-invalid email address, especially at a domain that
doesn't seem to belong to you. (I got a mailer-daemon bounce when
replying to your posts.)
If you must use an invalid address, then please make use of the
".invalid" TLD (that's what it's for!).

Regards,
Chris


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 06:28:09 2012
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 11:28:09 +0100
Subject: getting the state of an object
In-Reply-To: <franck-1CB9C8.10503807102012@news.free.fr>
References: <franck-1CB9C8.10503807102012@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxRGbeUAK71XZk__sOR_-Q4YvYOoSwqkYNvajp5wvsZRrQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Oct 7, 2012 9:57 AM, "Franck Ditter" <franck at ditter.org> wrote:
>
> Hi !
>
> Another question. When writing a class, I have often to
> destructure the state of an object as in :
>
> def foo(self) :
>     (a,b,c,d) = (self.a,self.b,self.c,self.d)
>     ... big code with a,b,c,d ...
>

What's wrong with the above? It seems fine to me. Alternatively, don't
bother: just use self.a etc.

> So I use the following method :
>
> def state(self) :
>     return (self.a,self.b,self.c,self.d)
>
> so as to write :
>
> def foo(self) :
>     (a,b,c,d) = self.state()
>     ... big code with a,b,c,d ...

This just seems needlessly confusing. Someone reading your code will have
to see that line, find the state function, check the order of the return
values and then confirm that it matches up with the order in the original
line. The first version doesn't have this problem. You can see that it's
correct just by looking at it.

> This is probably not the best Python way to code, is it ?
> Is there a simple way to get the *ordered* list of instance
> variables as given in the parameter list of __init__ ?

I don't know about simple but you can get the names of the arguments from
the __init__ method object using the inspect module. Then you can use
getattr te recover the attribute values.

I wouldn't bother though. Explicit is better than implicit. If you want to
extract the instance attributes as local variables then just write the one
line that does it as in your first example.

Oscar
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 07:11:03 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 22:11:03 +1100
Subject: getting the state of an object
In-Reply-To: <franck-1CB9C8.10503807102012@news.free.fr>
References: <franck-1CB9C8.10503807102012@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrAX8Bg98xf3zh8gnC96o1ezZsrASgSRgq8vif1LrQo5g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 7:50 PM, Franck Ditter <franck at ditter.org> wrote:
> def foo(self) :
>     (a,b,c,d) = (self.a,self.b,self.c,self.d)
>     ... big code with a,b,c,d ...
>

This strikes me as ripe for bug introduction. There's no problem if
you're just reading those values, and mutating them is equally fine,
but suddenly you need a different syntax for modifying instance
members.

def foo(self) :
    (a,b,c,d) = (self.a,self.b,self.c,self.d)
    e = a+b
    c.append(1234)
    d=self.d = 57   # Oops, mustn't forget to assign both!


Since Python lacks the extensive scoping rules of (say) C++, it's much
simpler and safer to be explicit about scope by adorning your instance
variable references with their "self." tags. There's a guarantee that
you can use "self.a" in any situation where you want to manipulate
that member, a guarantee that's not upheld by the local "a".

In theory, I suppose you could use a C-style preprocessor to help you.

class Foo(object):
  #define asdf self.asdf
  #define qwer self.qwer

  def __init__(self,a,q):
    asdf=a; qwer=q

  def __repr__(self):
    return "Foo(%s,%s)"%(asdf,qwer)

This is not, however, Pythonic code. But if you made some kind of
better declaration than #define, and used a preprocessor that
understood Python indentation rules and flushed its token list at the
end of the class definition, you could perhaps make this look
not-ugly. I still wouldn't recommend it, though.

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Oct  7 08:09:14 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Oct 2012 12:09:14 GMT
Subject: getting the state of an object
References: <franck-1CB9C8.10503807102012@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <507170e9$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 07 Oct 2012 10:50:38 +0200, Franck Ditter wrote:

> Hi !
> 
> Another question. When writing a class, I have often to destructure the
> state of an object as in :
> 
> def foo(self) :
>     (a,b,c,d) = (self.a,self.b,self.c,self.d) 
>     ... big code with a,b,c,d ...

There's your problem right there: "big code". Methods should be small, 
ideally no more than a dozen lines or so. In my experience, small methods 
that have a very tight focus on doing one thing make it much easier to 
write, debug and maintain the method, and as a bonus having to write 
"self.a" is less of a burden.

I've just looked at one of my classes, picked randomly, and the largest 
method is twelve lines, the second largest is eight, and the average is 
three lines.


> So I use the following method :
> 
> def state(self) :
>     return (self.a,self.b,self.c,self.d)
> 
> so as to write :
> 
> def foo(self) :
>     (a,b,c,d) = self.state()
>     ... big code with a,b,c,d ...
> 
> This is probably not the best Python way to code, is it ? 

Not really the best. But I've seen worse.

If you *have* to write "big code with a,b,c,d" then this is probably 
acceptable. But better to refactor your big method into smaller methods 
that don't need to use self.a, self.b, self.c, self.d so many times that 
writing them explicitly is a nuisance. 

> Is there a
> simple way to get the *ordered* list of instance variables as given in
> the parameter list of __init__ ?

What you have written in method "state" is the simple way.

By the way, we prefer "instance attribute" or even "instance member" over 
"instance variable" here.



-- 
Steven


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 09:08:53 2012
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 06:08:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: getting the state of an object
In-Reply-To: <franck-1CB9C8.10503807102012@news.free.fr>
References: <franck-1CB9C8.10503807102012@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <12957bcf-78a3-4d80-9acd-19e1e31f9afc@googlegroups.com>

> Is there a simple way to get the *ordered* list of instance
Here's one way to do it (weather doing it is a good idea or not is debatable):

    from operator import attrgetter

    def __init__(self, a, b, c, d):
        self.a, self.b, self.c, self.d = a, b, c, d
        get = attrgetter('a', 'b', 'c', 'd')
        self.state = lambda: get(self)


From roy at panix.com  Sun Oct  7 09:56:04 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2012 09:56:04 -0400
Subject: getting the state of an object
References: <franck-1CB9C8.10503807102012@news.free.fr>
	<507170e9$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <roy-F84A57.09560407102012@news.panix.com>

In article <507170e9$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d at news.astraweb.com>,
 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:

> I've just looked at one of my classes, picked randomly, and the largest 
> method is twelve lines, the second largest is eight, and the average is 
> three lines.

I took a look at a subtree of the project I'm working on now.  116 
python files, 20 kloc, 330 functions (mostly class methods).  I did a 
quick-and-dirty "grep -n" job on them to find the line numbers of the 
def statements, then another quick-and-dirty python script to find the 
differences, and summarize.  Results below (second column is length of 
'def' block in lines, first column is number of blocks of that length).

This is just dumb line counting; no attempt to exclude block comments, 
white space, docstrings, etc.

There's three different authors represented here, but I'd guess 70% of 
the code is mine.  Of the three, I'm probably the one who writes the 
most refactored code (i.e. smallest functions).

I just went and found the longest of these (193 lines).  It starts with 
a 95 line block comment.  Of the 100-or so lines of real code, I suppose 
with some effort it could have been refactored some, but not hugely.


      7 3
     19 4
     12 5
     17 6
     10 7
     16 8
     10 9
      6 10
      8 11
     11 12
      4 13
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      4 17
      8 18
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      5 20
      9 21
      3 22
      6 23
      5 24
      4 25
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      4 27
      3 28
      2 29
      1 30
      3 31
      4 32
      4 33
      8 34
      2 35
      2 36
      3 37
      2 39
      1 40
      3 41
      1 42
      3 43
      2 44
      2 45
      1 46
      2 47
      1 48
      1 51
      2 54
      1 55
      2 56
      2 59
      1 60
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      1 63
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      1 65
      1 74
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      1 94
      1 100
      1 105
      1 148
      1 164
      1 193


From typetoken at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 12:15:43 2012
From: typetoken at gmail.com (Token Type)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 09:15:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: wordnet semantic similarity: how to refer to elements of a pair in a
	list? can we sort dictionary according to the value?
Message-ID: <2d6d84d4-0f70-4280-96e2-f9fe17d5be8b@googlegroups.com>

In order to solve the following question, http://nltk.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/book/ch02.html:
? Use one of the predefined similarity measures to score the similarity of each of the following pairs of words. Rank the pairs in order of decreasing similarity. How close is your ranking to the order given here, an order that was established experimentally by (Miller & Charles, 1998): car-automobile, gem-jewel, journey-voyage, boy-lad, coast-shore, asylum-madhouse, magician-wizard, midday-noon, furnace-stove, food-fruit, bird-cock, bird-crane, tool-implement, brother-monk, lad-brother, crane-implement, journey-car, monk-oracle, cemetery-woodland, food-rooster, coast-hill, forest-graveyard, shore-woodland, monk-slave, coast-forest, lad-wizard, chord-smile, glass-magician, rooster-voyage, noon-string.

(1) First, I put the word pairs in a list eg.
pairs = [(car, automobile), (gem, jewel), (journey, voyage) ]. According to http://nltk.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/book/ch02.html, I need to put them in the following format so as to calculate teh semantic similarity : wn.synset('right_whale.n.01').path_similarity(wn.synset('minke_whale.n.01')).

In this case, I need to use loop to iterate each element in the above pairs. How can I refer to each element in the above pairs, i.e. pairs = [(car, automobile), (gem, jewel), (journey, voyage) ]. What's the index for 'car' and for 'automobile'? Thanks for your tips.

(2) Since I can't solve the above index issue. I try to use dictionary as follows:
>>> import nltk
>>> from nltk.corpus import wordnet as wn
>>> pairs = {'car':'automobile', 'gem':'jewel', 'journey':'voyage'}
>>> for key in pairs:
	word1 = wn.synset(str(key) + '.n.01')
	word2 = wn.synset(str(pairs[key])+'.n.01')
	similarity = word1.path_similarity(word2)
	print key+'-'+pairs[key],similarity

	
car-automobile 1.0
journey-voyage 0.25
gem-jewel 0.125

Now it seems that I can calculate the semantic similarity for each groups in the above dictionary. However, I want to sort according to the similarity value in the result before print the result out. Can sort dictionary elements according to their values? This is one of the requirement in this exercise. How can we make each group of words (e.g. car-automobile, jounrney-voyage, gem-jewel)
sorted according to their similarity value?
Thanks for your tips.


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Sun Oct  7 13:01:58 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 10:01:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problems building Python from hg trunk on Open SUSE
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1885.1349483106.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1885.1349483106.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <819a2b71-2fc5-4d7c-a8f2-7099a2962355@googlegroups.com>

Skip Montanaro? 2012?10?6????UTC+8??8?25?06????
> I haven't messed around with Python 3 recently, so decided to give it
> 
> a whirl again.  I cloned the trunk (cpython) and set about it.  This
> 
> is on an OpenSUSE 12.1 system.  I configured like so:
> 
> 
> 
>   ./configure --prefix=/home/skipm/.linux-local
> 
> 
> 
> and ran the usual "make ; make install".
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a bit perplexed about how it is installed.  Instead of installing
> 
> shared objects in
> 
> 
> 
>   /home/skipm/.linux-local/lib/python3.4/lib-dynload
> 
> 
> 
> they were installed in
> 
> 
> 
> /home/skipm/.linux-local/lib64/python3.4/lib-dynload
> 
> 
> 
> (note the "lib64" vs. "lib").  This would be fine, except sys.path
> 
> doesn't include the "lib64" version of this path:
> 
> 
> 
> % PYTHONPATH= PYTHONSTARTUP= ~/.linux-local/bin/python3.4 -S
> 
> Could not find platform dependent libraries <exec_prefix>
> 
> Consider setting $PYTHONHOME to <prefix>[:<exec_prefix>]
> 
> Python 3.4.0a0 (default:26200f535296, Oct  3 2012, 12:48:07)
> 
> [GCC 4.4.6 [TWW]] on linux
> 
> >>> import sys
> 
> >>> sys.path
> 
> ['', '', '/home/skipm/.linux-local/lib/python34.zip',
> 
> '/home/skipm/.linux-local/lib/python3.4/',
> 
> '/home/skipm/.linux-local/lib/python3.4/plat-linux',
> 
> '/home/skipm/.linux-local/lib/lib-dynload']
> 
> 
> 
> I see the message about setting PYTHONHOME.  (That happens to be bad
> 
> advice as sys.prefix and sys.exec_prefix are identical in this case.)
> 
> What I don't understand is why directories containing "lib64" are not
> 
> in sys.path by default, given that that's where "make install" put
> 
> things.
> 
> 
> 
> GCC is as delivered by The Written Word.  (This is a work computer.
> 
> The powers that be settled on TWW awhile ago for packaging all open
> 
> source software we use on Linux and Solaris, thus removing a headache
> 
> from our support staff.)  It is:
> 
> 
> 
> % gcc --version
> 
> gcc (GCC) 4.4.6 [TWW]
> 
> Copyright (C) 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
> 
> This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.  There is NO
> 
> warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
> 
> 
> 
> The architecture looks like this:
> 
> 
> 
> % uname -a
> 
> Linux udesktop264 3.1.0-1.2-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Nov 3 14:45:45
> 
> UTC 2011 (187dde0) x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see anything in the output of "./configure --help" which
> 
> relates to 64-bit install directories, though I do see some lines in
> 
> config.log about guessing the architecture.  Some cursory googling
> 
> didn't turn up any promising web pages, and I didn't find anything in
> 
> the various documentation files in the repo related to building
> 
> Python.
> 
> 
> 
> Any suggestions about how to resolve this would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> Thx,
> 
> 
> 
> Skip

I am waiting for JYTHON and IRON PYTHON to be upgraded.


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Sun Oct  7 13:01:58 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 10:01:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problems building Python from hg trunk on Open SUSE
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1885.1349483106.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1885.1349483106.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <819a2b71-2fc5-4d7c-a8f2-7099a2962355@googlegroups.com>

Skip Montanaro? 2012?10?6????UTC+8??8?25?06????
> I haven't messed around with Python 3 recently, so decided to give it
> 
> a whirl again.  I cloned the trunk (cpython) and set about it.  This
> 
> is on an OpenSUSE 12.1 system.  I configured like so:
> 
> 
> 
>   ./configure --prefix=/home/skipm/.linux-local
> 
> 
> 
> and ran the usual "make ; make install".
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a bit perplexed about how it is installed.  Instead of installing
> 
> shared objects in
> 
> 
> 
>   /home/skipm/.linux-local/lib/python3.4/lib-dynload
> 
> 
> 
> they were installed in
> 
> 
> 
> /home/skipm/.linux-local/lib64/python3.4/lib-dynload
> 
> 
> 
> (note the "lib64" vs. "lib").  This would be fine, except sys.path
> 
> doesn't include the "lib64" version of this path:
> 
> 
> 
> % PYTHONPATH= PYTHONSTARTUP= ~/.linux-local/bin/python3.4 -S
> 
> Could not find platform dependent libraries <exec_prefix>
> 
> Consider setting $PYTHONHOME to <prefix>[:<exec_prefix>]
> 
> Python 3.4.0a0 (default:26200f535296, Oct  3 2012, 12:48:07)
> 
> [GCC 4.4.6 [TWW]] on linux
> 
> >>> import sys
> 
> >>> sys.path
> 
> ['', '', '/home/skipm/.linux-local/lib/python34.zip',
> 
> '/home/skipm/.linux-local/lib/python3.4/',
> 
> '/home/skipm/.linux-local/lib/python3.4/plat-linux',
> 
> '/home/skipm/.linux-local/lib/lib-dynload']
> 
> 
> 
> I see the message about setting PYTHONHOME.  (That happens to be bad
> 
> advice as sys.prefix and sys.exec_prefix are identical in this case.)
> 
> What I don't understand is why directories containing "lib64" are not
> 
> in sys.path by default, given that that's where "make install" put
> 
> things.
> 
> 
> 
> GCC is as delivered by The Written Word.  (This is a work computer.
> 
> The powers that be settled on TWW awhile ago for packaging all open
> 
> source software we use on Linux and Solaris, thus removing a headache
> 
> from our support staff.)  It is:
> 
> 
> 
> % gcc --version
> 
> gcc (GCC) 4.4.6 [TWW]
> 
> Copyright (C) 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
> 
> This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.  There is NO
> 
> warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
> 
> 
> 
> The architecture looks like this:
> 
> 
> 
> % uname -a
> 
> Linux udesktop264 3.1.0-1.2-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Nov 3 14:45:45
> 
> UTC 2011 (187dde0) x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see anything in the output of "./configure --help" which
> 
> relates to 64-bit install directories, though I do see some lines in
> 
> config.log about guessing the architecture.  Some cursory googling
> 
> didn't turn up any promising web pages, and I didn't find anything in
> 
> the various documentation files in the repo related to building
> 
> Python.
> 
> 
> 
> Any suggestions about how to resolve this would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> Thx,
> 
> 
> 
> Skip

I am waiting for JYTHON and IRON PYTHON to be upgraded.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Oct  7 13:49:52 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2012 18:49:52 +0100
Subject: wordnet semantic similarity: how to refer to elements of a pair
	in a list? can we sort dictionary according to the value?
In-Reply-To: <2d6d84d4-0f70-4280-96e2-f9fe17d5be8b@googlegroups.com>
References: <2d6d84d4-0f70-4280-96e2-f9fe17d5be8b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k4sfaq$3a5$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 07/10/2012 17:15, Token Type wrote:
> In order to solve the following question, http://nltk.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/book/ch02.html:
> ? Use one of the predefined similarity measures to score the similarity of each of the following pairs of words. Rank the pairs in order of decreasing similarity. How close is your ranking to the order given here, an order that was established experimentally by (Miller & Charles, 1998): car-automobile, gem-jewel, journey-voyage, boy-lad, coast-shore, asylum-madhouse, magician-wizard, midday-noon, furnace-stove, food-fruit, bird-cock, bird-crane, tool-implement, brother-monk, lad-brother, crane-implement, journey-car, monk-oracle, cemetery-woodland, food-rooster, coast-hill, forest-graveyard, shore-woodland, monk-slave, coast-forest, lad-wizard, chord-smile, glass-magician, rooster-voyage, noon-string.
>
> (1) First, I put the word pairs in a list eg.
> pairs = [(car, automobile), (gem, jewel), (journey, voyage) ]. According to http://nltk.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/book/ch02.html, I need to put them in the following format so as to calculate teh semantic similarity : wn.synset('right_whale.n.01').path_similarity(wn.synset('minke_whale.n.01')).
>
> In this case, I need to use loop to iterate each element in the above pairs. How can I refer to each element in the above pairs, i.e. pairs = [(car, automobile), (gem, jewel), (journey, voyage) ]. What's the index for 'car' and for 'automobile'? Thanks for your tips.
>
> (2) Since I can't solve the above index issue. I try to use dictionary as follows:
>>>> import nltk
>>>> from nltk.corpus import wordnet as wn
>>>> pairs = {'car':'automobile', 'gem':'jewel', 'journey':'voyage'}
>>>> for key in pairs:
> 	word1 = wn.synset(str(key) + '.n.01')
> 	word2 = wn.synset(str(pairs[key])+'.n.01')
> 	similarity = word1.path_similarity(word2)
> 	print key+'-'+pairs[key],similarity
>
> 	
> car-automobile 1.0
> journey-voyage 0.25
> gem-jewel 0.125
>
> Now it seems that I can calculate the semantic similarity for each groups in the above dictionary. However, I want to sort according to the similarity value in the result before print the result out. Can sort dictionary elements according to their values? This is one of the requirement in this exercise. How can we make each group of words (e.g. car-automobile, jounrney-voyage, gem-jewel)
> sorted according to their similarity value?
> Thanks for your tips.
>

In your for loop save the data in a list rather than print it out and 
sort according to this 
http://wiki.python.org/moin/HowTo/Sorting#Operator_Module_Functions

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From woooee at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 13:58:18 2012
From: woooee at gmail.com (woooee)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 10:58:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unpaking Tuple
References: <801f0e2c-7d1d-4e91-bec5-78c5e53a70ec@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <69987244-3aa8-441b-83e8-2275e75f2b83@ph9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 6, 3:09?am, sajuptpm <sajup... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I need a way to make following code working without any ValueError .
>
> >>> a, b, c, d = (1,2,3,4)
> >>> a, b, c, d = (1,2,3).

Why is it necessary to unpack the tuple into arbitrary variables.
a_tuple=(1,2,3)
for v in a_tuple:
    print v

for ctr in range(len(a_tuple)):
    print a_tuple[ctr]


From subhabangalore at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 15:30:52 2012
From: subhabangalore at gmail.com (subhabangalore at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 12:30:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Question on Python Split
Message-ID: <68fc8fcb-b356-4fce-8541-e2abf371fecf@googlegroups.com>

Dear Group,

Suppose I have a string as, 

"Project Gutenberg has 36000 free ebooks for Kindle Android iPad iPhone."

I am terming it as,

str1= "Project Gutenberg has 36000 free ebooks for Kindle Android iPad iPhone." 

I am working now with a split function,

str_words=str1.split()
so, I would get the result as,
['Project', 'Gutenberg', 'has', '36000', 'free', 'ebooks', 'for', 'Kindle', 'Android', 'iPad', 'iPhone.']

But I am looking for,

['Project Gutenberg', 'has 36000', 'free ebooks', 'for Kindle', 'Android iPad', 'iPhone']

This can be done if we assign the string as,

str1= "Project Gutenberg, has 36000, free ebooks, for Kindle, Android iPad, iPhone,"

and then assign the split statement as,

str1_word=str1.split(",")

would produce,

['Project Gutenberg', ' has 36000', ' free ebooks', ' for Kindle', ' Android iPad', ' iPhone', '']

My objective generally is achieved, but I want to convert each group here in tuple so that it can be embedded, like,

[(Project Gutenberg), (has 36000), (free ebooks), (for Kindle), ( Android iPad), (iPhone), '']

as I see if I assign it as

for i in str1_word:
       print i
       ti=tuple(i)
       print ti

I am not getting the desired result.

If I work again from tuple point, I get it as,
>>> tup1=('Project Gutenberg')
>>> tup2=('has 36000')
>>> tup3=('free ebooks')
>>> tup4=('for Kindle')
>>> tup5=('Android iPad')
>>> tup6=tup1+tup2+tup3+tup4+tup5
>>> print tup6
Project Gutenberghas 36000free ebooksfor KindleAndroid iPad

Then how may I achieve it? If any one of the learned members can kindly guide me.
Thanks in Advance,
Regards,
Subhabrata.

NB: Apology for some minor errors. 









From johannes_graumann at web.de  Sun Oct  7 15:44:38 2012
From: johannes_graumann at web.de (Johannes Graumann)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2012 22:44:38 +0300
Subject: Convert MAC to hex howto
Message-ID: <k4sm14$ob3$1@ger.gmane.org>

Dear all,

I'm trying to convert
	'00:08:9b:ce:f5:d4'
to 
	'\x00\x08\x9b\xce\xf5\xd4'
for use in magic packet construction for WakeOnLan like so:
	wolsocket = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
       	wolsocket.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_BROADCAST, 1)
	wolsocket.sendto('\xff'*6 + '\x00\x08\x9b\xce\xf5\xd4'*16,
	 (expectedlanbroadcast, 80))

This is what I came up whith, but I remain puzzled on how to preserver the 
leading '\h' ... thanks for any hint

expectedservermac = '00:08:9b:ce:f5:d4'
hexcall = str.split(expectedservermac,":")
hexcall.insert(0,'')
hexcall = "\\x".join(hexcall).decode('string_escape')

Thanks for any pointers.

Sincerely, Joh



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Oct  7 15:53:35 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2012 15:53:35 -0400
Subject: wordnet semantic similarity: how to refer to elements of a pair
	in a list? can we sort dictionary according to the value?
In-Reply-To: <2d6d84d4-0f70-4280-96e2-f9fe17d5be8b@googlegroups.com>
References: <2d6d84d4-0f70-4280-96e2-f9fe17d5be8b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k4smkc$tt3$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/7/2012 12:15 PM, Token Type wrote:

> In this case, I need to use loop to iterate each element in the above
> pairs. How can I refer to each element in the above pairs, i.e. pairs
> = [(car, automobile), (gem, jewel), (journey, voyage) ]. What's the
> index for 'car' and for 'automobile'? Thanks for your tips.

 >>> pairs = [('car', 'automobile'), ('gem', 'jewel')]
 >>> pairs[0][0]
'car'
 >>> pairs[1][1]
'jewel'
 >>> for a,b in pairs: a,b

('car', 'automobile')
('gem', 'jewel')

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sun Oct  7 15:56:07 2012
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2012 12:56:07 -0700
Subject: Convert MAC to hex howto
References: <mailman.1931.1349639025.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xipamcazs.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Johannes Graumann <johannes_graumann at web.de> writes:
> 	'00:08:9b:ce:f5:d4'
> ...
> hexcall = "\\x".join(hexcall).decode('string_escape')

I think it's best not to mess with stuff like that.  Convert to integers
then convert back:

  mac = '00:08:9b:ce:f5:d4'
  hexcall = ''.join(chr(int(c,16)) for c in mac.split(':'))


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Oct  7 16:01:07 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2012 21:01:07 +0100
Subject: Question on Python Split
In-Reply-To: <68fc8fcb-b356-4fce-8541-e2abf371fecf@googlegroups.com>
References: <68fc8fcb-b356-4fce-8541-e2abf371fecf@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5071DF83.4010805@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-07 20:30, subhabangalore at gmail.com wrote:
> Dear Group,
>
> Suppose I have a string as,
>
> "Project Gutenberg has 36000 free ebooks for Kindle Android iPad iPhone."
>
> I am terming it as,
>
> str1= "Project Gutenberg has 36000 free ebooks for Kindle Android iPad iPhone."
>
> I am working now with a split function,
>
> str_words=str1.split()
> so, I would get the result as,
> ['Project', 'Gutenberg', 'has', '36000', 'free', 'ebooks', 'for', 'Kindle', 'Android', 'iPad', 'iPhone.']
>
> But I am looking for,
>
> ['Project Gutenberg', 'has 36000', 'free ebooks', 'for Kindle', 'Android iPad', 'iPhone']
>
> This can be done if we assign the string as,
>
> str1= "Project Gutenberg, has 36000, free ebooks, for Kindle, Android iPad, iPhone,"
>
> and then assign the split statement as,
>
> str1_word=str1.split(",")
>
> would produce,
>
> ['Project Gutenberg', ' has 36000', ' free ebooks', ' for Kindle', ' Android iPad', ' iPhone', '']
>
It can also be done like this:

 >>> str1 = "Project Gutenberg has 36000 free ebooks for Kindle Android 
iPad iPhone."
 >>> # Splitting into words:
 >>> s = str1.split()
 >>> s
['Project', 'Gutenberg', 'has', '36000', 'free', 'ebooks', 'for', 
'Kindle', 'Android', 'iPad', 'iPhone.']
 >>> # Using slicing with a stride of 2 gives:
 >>> s[0 : : 2]
['Project', 'has', 'free', 'for', 'Android', 'iPhone.']
 >>> # Similarly for the other words gives:
 >>> s[1 : : 2]
['Gutenberg', '36000', 'ebooks', 'Kindle', 'iPad']
 >>> # Combining them in pairs, and adding an extra empty string in case 
there's an odd number of words:
 >>> [(x + ' ' + y).rstrip() for x, y in zip(s[0 : : 2], s[1 : : 2] + [''])]
['Project Gutenberg', 'has 36000', 'free ebooks', 'for Kindle', 'Android 
iPad', 'iPhone.']

> My objective generally is achieved, but I want to convert each group here in tuple so that it can be embedded, like,
>
> [(Project Gutenberg), (has 36000), (free ebooks), (for Kindle), ( Android iPad), (iPhone), '']
>
> as I see if I assign it as
>
> for i in str1_word:
>         print i
>         ti=tuple(i)
>         print ti
>
> I am not getting the desired result.
>
> If I work again from tuple point, I get it as,
>>>> tup1=('Project Gutenberg')
>>>> tup2=('has 36000')
>>>> tup3=('free ebooks')
>>>> tup4=('for Kindle')
>>>> tup5=('Android iPad')
>>>> tup6=tup1+tup2+tup3+tup4+tup5
>>>> print tup6
> Project Gutenberghas 36000free ebooksfor KindleAndroid iPad
>
It's the comma that makes the tuple, not the parentheses, except for the 
empty tuple which is just empty parentheses, i.e. ().

> Then how may I achieve it? If any one of the learned members can kindly guide me.

 >>> [((x + ' ' + y).rstrip(), ) for x, y in zip(s[0 : : 2], s[1 : : 2] 
+ [''])]
[('Project Gutenberg',), ('has 36000',), ('free ebooks',), ('for 
Kindle',), ('Android iPad',), ('iPhone.',)]

Is this what you want?

If you want it to be a list of pairs of words, then:

 >>> [(x, y) for x, y in zip(s[0 : : 2], s[1 : : 2] + [''])]
[('Project', 'Gutenberg'), ('has', '36000'), ('free', 'ebooks'), ('for', 
'Kindle'), ('Android', 'iPad'), ('iPhone.', '')]



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Oct  7 16:03:20 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2012 16:03:20 -0400
Subject: Unpaking Tuple
In-Reply-To: <69987244-3aa8-441b-83e8-2275e75f2b83@ph9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <801f0e2c-7d1d-4e91-bec5-78c5e53a70ec@googlegroups.com>
	<69987244-3aa8-441b-83e8-2275e75f2b83@ph9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k4sn6m$23v$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/7/2012 1:58 PM, woooee wrote:
> On Oct 6, 3:09 am, sajuptpm <sajup... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I need a way to make following code working without any ValueError .
>>
>>>>> a, b, c, d = (1,2,3,4)
>>>>> a, b, c, d = (1,2,3)

You cannot 'make' buggy code work -- except by changing it.
 >>> a, b, c, *d = (1,2,3)
 >>> d
[]

> Why is it necessary to unpack the tuple into arbitrary variables.

It is not necessary.

> a_tuple=(1,2,3)
> for v in a_tuple:
>      print v

This is often the right way to access any iterable.

> for ctr in range(len(a_tuple)):
>      print a_tuple[ctr]

This is seldom the right way. See the example below.

Unpacking is for when you have known-length iterables. For instance, 
enumerate produces pairs.

 >>> for i, v in enumerate('abc'):
   print('Item {} is {}.'.format(i, v))

Item 0 is a.
Item 1 is b.
Item 2 is c.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Oct  7 16:04:38 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2012 21:04:38 +0100
Subject: Convert MAC to hex howto
In-Reply-To: <k4sm14$ob3$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <k4sm14$ob3$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <5071E056.5010802@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-07 20:44, Johannes Graumann wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I'm trying to convert
> 	'00:08:9b:ce:f5:d4'
> to
> 	'\x00\x08\x9b\xce\xf5\xd4'
> for use in magic packet construction for WakeOnLan like so:
> 	wolsocket = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
>         	wolsocket.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_BROADCAST, 1)
> 	wolsocket.sendto('\xff'*6 + '\x00\x08\x9b\xce\xf5\xd4'*16,
> 	 (expectedlanbroadcast, 80))
>
> This is what I came up whith, but I remain puzzled on how to preserver the
> leading '\h' ... thanks for any hint
>
> expectedservermac = '00:08:9b:ce:f5:d4'
> hexcall = str.split(expectedservermac,":")
> hexcall.insert(0,'')
> hexcall = "\\x".join(hexcall).decode('string_escape')
>
> Thanks for any pointers.
>
It looks like you're using Python 2, so:

 >>> s = '00:08:9b:ce:f5:d4'
 >>> "".join(chr(int(x, 16)) for x in s.split(":"))
'\x00\x08\x9b\xce\xf5\xd4'



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Oct  7 16:08:47 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2012 16:08:47 -0400
Subject: Question on Python Split
In-Reply-To: <68fc8fcb-b356-4fce-8541-e2abf371fecf@googlegroups.com>
References: <68fc8fcb-b356-4fce-8541-e2abf371fecf@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k4sngt$4qm$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/7/2012 3:30 PM, subhabangalore at gmail.com wrote:

> If I work again from tuple point, I get it as,
>>>> tup1=('Project Gutenberg')
>>>> tup2=('has 36000')
>>>> tup3=('free ebooks')
>>>> tup4=('for Kindle')
>>>> tup5=('Android iPad')

These are strings, not tuples. Numbered names like this are a bad idea.

>>>> tup6=tup1+tup2+tup3+tup4+tup5
>>>> print tup6
> Project Gutenberghas 36000free ebooksfor KindleAndroid iPad

tup1=('Project Gutenberg')
tup2=('has 36000')
tup3=('free ebooks')
tup4=('for Kindle')
tup5=('Android iPad')
print(' '.join((tup1,tup2,tup3,tup4,tup5)))

 >>>
Project Gutenberg has 36000 free ebooks for Kindle Android iPad

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From johannes_graumann at web.de  Sun Oct  7 16:38:26 2012
From: johannes_graumann at web.de (Johannes Graumann)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2012 23:38:26 +0300
Subject: Convert MAC to hex howto
References: <k4sm14$ob3$1@ger.gmane.org> <5071E056.5010802@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <k4sp5q$gq2$1@ger.gmane.org>

MRAB wrote:

> On 2012-10-07 20:44, Johannes Graumann wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I'm trying to convert
>> '00:08:9b:ce:f5:d4'
>> to
>> '\x00\x08\x9b\xce\xf5\xd4'
>> for use in magic packet construction for WakeOnLan like so:
>> wolsocket = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
>>         wolsocket.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_BROADCAST, 1)
>> wolsocket.sendto('\xff'*6 + '\x00\x08\x9b\xce\xf5\xd4'*16,
>> (expectedlanbroadcast, 80))
>>
>> This is what I came up whith, but I remain puzzled on how to preserver
>> the leading '\h' ... thanks for any hint
>>
>> expectedservermac = '00:08:9b:ce:f5:d4'
>> hexcall = str.split(expectedservermac,":")
>> hexcall.insert(0,'')
>> hexcall = "\\x".join(hexcall).decode('string_escape')
>>
>> Thanks for any pointers.
>>
> It looks like you're using Python 2, so:
> 
>  >>> s = '00:08:9b:ce:f5:d4'
>  >>> "".join(chr(int(x, 16)) for x in s.split(":"))
> '\x00\x08\x9b\xce\xf5\xd4'

Many thanks!

Joh



From johannes_graumann at web.de  Sun Oct  7 16:38:39 2012
From: johannes_graumann at web.de (Johannes Graumann)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2012 23:38:39 +0300
Subject: Convert MAC to hex howto
References: <mailman.1931.1349639025.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7xipamcazs.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <k4sp66$gq2$2@ger.gmane.org>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> Johannes Graumann <johannes_graumann at web.de> writes:
>> '00:08:9b:ce:f5:d4'
>> ...
>> hexcall = "\\x".join(hexcall).decode('string_escape')
> 
> I think it's best not to mess with stuff like that.  Convert to integers
> then convert back:
> 
>   mac = '00:08:9b:ce:f5:d4'
>   hexcall = ''.join(chr(int(c,16)) for c in mac.split(':'))

Thanks to you as well!

Joh



From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Oct  7 17:01:17 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2012 23:01:17 +0200
Subject: Convert MAC to hex howto
References: <k4sm14$ob3$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <k4sqio$rim$1@ger.gmane.org>

Johannes Graumann wrote:

> Dear all,
> 
> I'm trying to convert
> '00:08:9b:ce:f5:d4'
> to
> '\x00\x08\x9b\xce\xf5\xd4'
> for use in magic packet construction for WakeOnLan like so:
> wolsocket = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
>        wolsocket.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_BROADCAST, 1)
> wolsocket.sendto('\xff'*6 + '\x00\x08\x9b\xce\xf5\xd4'*16,
> (expectedlanbroadcast, 80))
> 
> This is what I came up whith, but I remain puzzled on how to preserver the
> leading '\h' ... thanks for any hint
> 
> expectedservermac = '00:08:9b:ce:f5:d4'
> hexcall = str.split(expectedservermac,":")
> hexcall.insert(0,'')
> hexcall = "\\x".join(hexcall).decode('string_escape')

>>> import binascii
>>> expectedservermac = '00:08:9b:ce:f5:d4'
>>> binascii.unhexlify(expectedservermac.replace(":", ""))
'\x00\x08\x9b\xce\xf5\xd4'




From ye.youqun at eisoo.com  Sun Oct  7 20:53:46 2012
From: ye.youqun at eisoo.com (=?UTF-8?B?5Y+25L2R576k?=)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2012 08:53:46 +0800
Subject: how to run shell command like "<<EOT .... EOT"
In-Reply-To: <CAH8GtdO4LuVQU8tCdJqG4SzT2VxYvH0pWS4Mzrc4HmzB1obNZg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <506555B6.5040406@eisoo.com>
	<CAH8GtdMW0Eji1LtsafUzY1Av7OASzTxHW6c8KS+3MNg4YvErww@mail.gmail.com>
	<50664543.1050809@eisoo.com>
	<CAH8GtdO4LuVQU8tCdJqG4SzT2VxYvH0pWS4Mzrc4HmzB1obNZg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5072241A.8000201@eisoo.com>

? 2012-9-29 19:53, Kushal Kumaran ??:
> On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 6:18 AM, ???<ye.youqun at eisoo.com>  wrote:
>> ? 2012-9-28 16:16, Kushal Kumaran ??:
>>> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 1:15 PM, ???<ye.youqun at eisoo.com>   wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi, all,
>>>>
>>>>       I have the shell command like this:
>>>>
>>>> sfdisk -uM /dev/sdb<<   EOT
>>>> ,1000,83
>>>> ,,83
>>>> EOT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>       I have tried subprocess.Popen, pexpect.spawn and os.popen, but none
>>>> of
>>>> these works, but when I type this shell command in shell, it is works
>>>> fine.
>>>> I wonder how to emulate this type of behavior in python , and if someone
>>>> can
>>>> figure out the reason why?
>>>>
>>>>       The sample code of subprocess.Popen is:
>>>>
>>>>       command = ["sfdisk", "-uM",  target, "<<EOT", "\r\n",
>>>>                   ",", 1000, ",", "83", "\r\n",
>>>>                   ",", ",", "83", "\r\n", "EOT", "\r\n"]
>>>>
>>>>       pobj = subprocess.Popen (command, bufsize=1, \
>>>>                           stderr=subprocess.PIPE, stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
>>>>
>>>>       res = pobj.stderr.readline ()
>>>>       if res is not None and pobj.returncode != 0:
>>>>           observer.ShowProgress (u"??? %s ?????" % target)
>>>>           return False
>>>>
>>> The "<<EOT" syntax (called a here-document) just provides input to the
>>> command.  If you use the communicate method, you can provide input as
>>> an argument:
>>>
>>> command = ["sfdisk", "-uM",  target ]
>>> instructions = """
>>> ,1000,83
>>> ,,83
>>> """
>>> pobj = subprocess.Popen(command, stdin=subprocess.PIPE,
>>> stdout=subprocess.PIPE, stderr=subprocess.PIPE)
>>> (output, errors) = pobj.communicate(instructions)
>> I tried this, but it is still not work.
>>
> What do you mean by "not work"?
Sorry for replying so late, these days are long vocation in china.

If I type command in shell line by line, the command will run as 
expected, but when I invoke the command in python, it is always failed. 
Which is what I mean "not work".


>
> - If you get an exception, copy the entire traceback into an email
No exception occured.
>
> - If you do not get an exception, print out the value of the "errors"
> variable to see why the command failed.  You can also check
> pobj.returncode for the exit status of the subprocess.
I solved this problem as below:

fop = os.popen ("sfdisk -uM %s <<EOT\n,%d,83\n,,83\nEOT\n" % (target, fps))

But when I run it with subprocess.Popen (), it doesn't work as os.popen 
even use the code as:

command = ["sfdisk", "-uM",  target ]
instructions = """
,1000,83
,,83
"""

pobj = subprocess.Popen(command, stdin=subprocess.PIPE,
stdout=subprocess.PIPE, stderr=subprocess.PIPE)
(output, errors) = pobj.communicate(instructions)

stderr.readline () always return the error message means "sfdisk won't accept more than one device parameter except -s or -l is specified", it seems that some parameters were incorrectly treated

>
> A possibility is that you have to replace "sfdisk" with the full path
> to the binary, if it cannot be located on the PATH.  So you will
> replace it with "/usr/sbin/sfdisk", or "/sbin/sfdisk", or wherever the
> file actually is.
>
> <from your other email>
>> If I want to read the output line by line and not put all output to memory buffer in one
>> time, how to write the code?
> You can read line by line by calling pobj.stdout.readline() and
> pobj.stderr.readline().  You can send input to the process by calling
> pobj.stdin.write().  If you manage this interaction "by hand", you
> should not call communicate().  Also, you should be aware of the
> problem mentioned in the subprocess documentation:
>
> "Use communicate() rather than .stdin.write, .stdout.read or
> .stderr.read to avoid deadlocks due to any of the other OS pipe
> buffers filling up and blocking the child process."
>
> Is there any reason why you need to read line-by-line?  You could use
> communicate(), and then call stdout.splitlines() to get a list of
> lines, if that's all you need.
>




From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 21:19:05 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 18:19:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: notmm is dead!
References: <mailman.1807.1349374225.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506e282e$0$1726$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1869.1349467590.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e45e6377-58fa-4d4a-a9ea-4f1f53964b36@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1888.1349492341.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5e487f2e-81c5-4875-ae5c-e8e3b525ab72@ph9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 6, 12:59?pm, Michael Torrie <torr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I suppose a person can fail a turing test...

You did, yes :)



From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 21:45:02 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 21:45:02 -0400
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <5e487f2e-81c5-4875-ae5c-e8e3b525ab72@ph9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.1807.1349374225.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506e282e$0$1726$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1869.1349467590.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e45e6377-58fa-4d4a-a9ea-4f1f53964b36@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1888.1349492341.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5e487f2e-81c5-4875-ae5c-e8e3b525ab72@ph9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJWb6Sz1U6n3cZNn2ydxdVh2f5xmMhRNxZXHomhWbRcdRQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 9:19 PM, alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 6, 12:59 pm, Michael Torrie <torr... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I suppose a person can fail a turing test...
>
> You did, yes :)
>

What is failed, but a timeline in this scenario, if you found the
answer in the end?

Failure becomes answer not given in interval required, but did anybody
else, and if so...how many?


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 22:08:07 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 19:08:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: notmm is dead!
References: <mailman.1807.1349374225.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506e282e$0$1726$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1869.1349467590.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e45e6377-58fa-4d4a-a9ea-4f1f53964b36@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1888.1349492341.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5e487f2e-81c5-4875-ae5c-e8e3b525ab72@ph9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1942.1349660706.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <597604fe-d1ae-495b-8ec7-780f61161f4e@ph9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 8, 11:45?am, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu... at gmail.com> wrote:
> What is failed, but a timeline in this scenario, if you found the
> answer in the end?

It was a _joke_ referring to Michael Torrie's email addressing the
88888 Dihedral bot _as if it was a person_.

> Failure becomes answer not given in interval required, but did anybody
> else, and if so...how many?

23? I really have no idea what you're asking here.


From torriem at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 22:54:32 2012
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2012 20:54:32 -0600
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <597604fe-d1ae-495b-8ec7-780f61161f4e@ph9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.1807.1349374225.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506e282e$0$1726$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1869.1349467590.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e45e6377-58fa-4d4a-a9ea-4f1f53964b36@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1888.1349492341.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5e487f2e-81c5-4875-ae5c-e8e3b525ab72@ph9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1942.1349660706.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<597604fe-d1ae-495b-8ec7-780f61161f4e@ph9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50724068.4080703@gmail.com>

On 10/07/2012 08:08 PM, alex23 wrote:
> On Oct 8, 11:45 am, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> What is failed, but a timeline in this scenario, if you found the
>> answer in the end?
> 
> It was a _joke_ referring to Michael Torrie's email addressing the
> 88888 Dihedral bot _as if it was a person_.

Well it would be useful to probe the bot's parameters...



From g6dtjrhsr4 at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 22:55:41 2012
From: g6dtjrhsr4 at gmail.com (g6dtjrhsr4 at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 19:55:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: iPhone App To Help You Learn French Faster By Using Flashcards With
	Pictures
Message-ID: <a0a49d73-4b3b-4bd2-965e-0d6845262051@googlegroups.com>

http://tinyurl.com/frenchflashcardswithpictures - "French Flashcards with Pictures" is an iPhone app that will help you learn French faster by using flashcards with pictures (learn over 300 most commonly used words in the English / French language from A to Z), thanks.


From yujian4newsgroup at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 23:02:49 2012
From: yujian4newsgroup at gmail.com (yujian)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2012 11:02:49 +0800
Subject: How to control the internet explorer?
In-Reply-To: <k4smkc$tt3$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <2d6d84d4-0f70-4280-96e2-f9fe17d5be8b@googlegroups.com>
	<k4smkc$tt3$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <50724259.50204@gmail.com>

I want to save all the URLs in current opened windows,  and then close 
all the windows.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 23:37:53 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 20:37:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to control the internet explorer?
References: <2d6d84d4-0f70-4280-96e2-f9fe17d5be8b@googlegroups.com>
	<k4smkc$tt3$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1944.1349665387.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <303d6d50-0672-4e76-8c3b-081ca433a8e3@p5g2000pbs.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 8, 1:03?pm, yujian <yujian4newsgr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I want to save all the URLs in current opened windows, ?and then close
> all the windows.

Try mechanize or Selenium.


From jason at powerpull.net  Sun Oct  7 23:42:04 2012
From: jason at powerpull.net (Jason Friedman)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 21:42:04 -0600
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <50724068.4080703@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1807.1349374225.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506e282e$0$1726$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1869.1349467590.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e45e6377-58fa-4d4a-a9ea-4f1f53964b36@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1888.1349492341.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5e487f2e-81c5-4875-ae5c-e8e3b525ab72@ph9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1942.1349660706.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<597604fe-d1ae-495b-8ec7-780f61161f4e@ph9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
	<50724068.4080703@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANy1k1hyRsADZn4uo5sRs3_L1fy4jiUoyKBzbeVNAyPtvCoKzg@mail.gmail.com>

>> It was a _joke_ referring to Michael Torrie's email addressing the
>> 88888 Dihedral bot _as if it was a person_.
>
> Well it would be useful to probe the bot's parameters...

Five eights is a busy bot:
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t806110-p8-ok-lets-start-real-programming-in-c-for-problems.html
http://www.edaboard.co.uk/a-cheap-or-free-version-of-system-verilog-t521889.html


From torriem at gmail.com  Sun Oct  7 23:45:34 2012
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2012 21:45:34 -0600
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <CANy1k1hyRsADZn4uo5sRs3_L1fy4jiUoyKBzbeVNAyPtvCoKzg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1807.1349374225.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<506e282e$0$1726$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1869.1349467590.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e45e6377-58fa-4d4a-a9ea-4f1f53964b36@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1888.1349492341.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5e487f2e-81c5-4875-ae5c-e8e3b525ab72@ph9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1942.1349660706.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<597604fe-d1ae-495b-8ec7-780f61161f4e@ph9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
	<50724068.4080703@gmail.com>
	<CANy1k1hyRsADZn4uo5sRs3_L1fy4jiUoyKBzbeVNAyPtvCoKzg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50724C5E.80501@gmail.com>

On 10/07/2012 09:42 PM, Jason Friedman wrote:
>>> It was a _joke_ referring to Michael Torrie's email addressing the
>>> 88888 Dihedral bot _as if it was a person_.
>>
>> Well it would be useful to probe the bot's parameters...
> 
> Five eights is a busy bot:
> http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t806110-p8-ok-lets-start-real-programming-in-c-for-problems.html
> http://www.edaboard.co.uk/a-cheap-or-free-version-of-system-verilog-t521889.html

Indeed and he doesn't make much more sense in any of these venues.  And
it does not seem to engage in conversation on any of these other forums
either.



From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 00:18:45 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 00:18:45 -0400
Subject: notmm is dead!
In-Reply-To: <20121004141046.677dac1e8bf6dada0b6af6b3@gmail.com>
References: <20121004141046.677dac1e8bf6dada0b6af6b3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJXdm=jimrEjk=cvAK7hRY_Yv0_xDwRRtT6trsUVjt4kLQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Etienne Robillard <animelovin at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear list,
>
> Due to lack of energy and resources i'm really sad to announce the removal of notmm from pypi and bitbucket. I deleted
> also my account from bitbucket as it was not really useful for me.

Not 1 response?

 notmm will continue to be accessible from my master
> site at http://gthc.org/dist/notmm until the server get down, as I cannot find money to pay for the hosting of notmm.org,
> neither anyone to encourage the project so it can grow further.

Saw a niche, and announced your takeover?


>
> I have tried to develop a coherent extension for Django using the open source model but I'm afraid to have been
> bitten by its failure to encourage a free market over one dictated by profit and the use of cheap tricks to compete unfairly
> with perhaps too much openness. I always will also continue to love and use free softwares but sadly it seems asking for a little
> fairness is too much asked to competitors dedicated in stealing and subverting my work for their own advantages...
>

Then bring in an OS project of your own, and know  that's what happens.


> I therefore refuse to continue any longer being mocked by competitors asking excessive prices for having a broken Internet dictated by
> a few companies and decide the content I should be visiting.
>

Just market penetration, not mocking.

> Shall you have anything you wish saying I'll be open to discuss further on this list. I wish also to thanks the supporters
> of the project who have invested time and energy into my business and dedication to the notmm project.

It has to have an equal, or equivlilaint value to the current
statistically valued features.



-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From justmailharsh at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 05:50:37 2012
From: justmailharsh at gmail.com (justmailharsh at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 02:50:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Reading properties file in Python, except using ConfigParser()
In-Reply-To: <gd.usenet-466E0C.13321005102012@dwarf.main.lan>
References: <d8dd6f46-aa8b-45d1-8345-fffd62c03e4a@googlegroups.com>
	<gd.usenet-466E0C.13321005102012@dwarf.main.lan>
Message-ID: <b9502d00-2162-4c90-8c7a-b43fec676b0b@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, October 5, 2012 5:03:01 PM UTC+5:30, G?nther Dietrich wrote:
> justmailharsh at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >How to read properties file in Python? I found ConfigParser() but it has a 
> 
> >'section' limitation, so looking for other alternatives.
> 
> 
> 
> Have a look at PyYAML.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 
> 
> G?nther

Thanks for responding guys. I got the solution from here - 

http://www.daniweb.com/software-development/python/threads/435902/reading-properties-file-in-python-except-using-configparser#

Posting it here for others' benefit..


From bnrj.rudra at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 07:11:00 2012
From: bnrj.rudra at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?=E0=A6=B0=E0=A7=81=E0=A6=A6=E0=A7=8D=E0=A6=B0_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E0=A6=AC=E0=A7=8D=E0=A6=AF=E0=A6=BE=E0=A6=A3=E0=A6=BE?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E0=A6=B0=E0=A7=8D=E0=A6=9C=E0=A7=80?=)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:11:00 +0100
Subject: tidy to convert google scholar page in xml
Message-ID: <1349694660.6783.7.camel@roddur>

Dear friends,
I am trying to convert a google scholar page to xml.
First, I am getting the mapge using the script:
#!/usr/bin/python
from HTMLParser import HTMLParser
import urllib2
response =
urllib2.urlopen(urllib2.Request("http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=albert+einstein%2B1905&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_sdtp=", headers={"User-Agent":"Mozilla/5.0 Cheater/1.0"}))
f=open('sch.html','w')
f.write(response.read())

Which is giving sch.html starting as:
<!doctype html><html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html;charset=UTF-8"><meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible"
content="IE=Edge"><meta name="viewport"
content="width=device-width,initial-scale=1,minimum-scale=1,maximum-scale=2"><meta name="format-detection" content="telephone=no">	

if I try tidy to convert this html page to xml, I get:
$ tidy <sch.html |more
line 3 column 40 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <div> elements
line 3 column 23 - Info: <div> previously mentioned
/**************************
AND MANY MORE WARNNING
**************************/
Info: Document content looks like HTML 4.01 Transitional
Info: No system identifier in emitted doctype
131 warnings, 0 errors were found!

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta name="generator" content=
"HTML Tidy for Linux (vers 25 March 2009), see www.w3.org">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content=
"text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=Edge">
<meta name="viewport" content=
"width=device-width,initial-scale=1,minimum-scale=1,maximum-scale=2">
<meta name="format-detection" content="telephone=no">
<title>albert einstein+1905 - Google Scholar</title>

<script type="text/javascript">
var gs_ts=Number(new Date());
</script>
<style type="text/css">
html,body,form,table,div,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6,img,ol,ul,li,button{margin:0;padding:
0;border:0;}table{border-collapse:collapse;border-width:0;empty-cells:show;}#gs_
top{position:relative;min-width:980px;_width:expression(document.documentElement
.clientWidth<982?"980px":"auto");}.gs_el_ph #gs_top,.gs_el_ta
#gs_top{min-width:
300px;_width:expression(document.documentElement.clientWidth<302?"300px":"auto")
;}body,td{font-size:13px;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:1.24}body{back


So, this is still in html, not in xml. How can I convert the page to
xml?



From d at davea.name  Mon Oct  8 08:11:02 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2012 08:11:02 -0400
Subject: tidy to convert google scholar page in xml
In-Reply-To: <1349694660.6783.7.camel@roddur>
References: <1349694660.6783.7.camel@roddur>
Message-ID: <5072C2D6.4050407@davea.name>

On 10/08/2012 07:11 AM, ????? ?????????? wrote:
> Dear friends,
> I am trying to convert a google scholar page to xml.
> First, I am getting the mapge using the script:
> #!/usr/bin/python
> from HTMLParser import HTMLParser
> import urllib2
> response =
> urllib2.urlopen(urllib2.Request("http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=albert+einstein%2B1905&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_sdtp=", headers={"User-Agent":"Mozilla/5.0 Cheater/1.0"}))
> f=open('sch.html','w')
> f.write(response.read())
>
> Which is giving sch.html starting as:
> <!doctype html><html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
> content="text/html;charset=UTF-8"><meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible"
> content="IE=Edge"><meta name="viewport"
> content="width=device-width,initial-scale=1,minimum-scale=1,maximum-scale=2"><meta name="format-detection" content="telephone=no">	
>
> if I try tidy to convert this html page to xml, I get:
> $ tidy <sch.html |more
> line 3 column 40 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <div> elements
> line 3 column 23 - Info: <div> previously mentioned
> /**************************
> AND MANY MORE WARNNING
> **************************/
> Info: Document content looks like HTML 4.01 Transitional
> Info: No system identifier in emitted doctype
> 131 warnings, 0 errors were found!
>
> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
> <html>
> <head>
> <meta name="generator" content=
> "HTML Tidy for Linux (vers 25 March 2009), see www.w3.org">
> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content=
> "text/html; charset=us-ascii">
> <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=Edge">
> <meta name="viewport" content=
> "width=device-width,initial-scale=1,minimum-scale=1,maximum-scale=2">
> <meta name="format-detection" content="telephone=no">
> <title>albert einstein+1905 - Google Scholar</title>
>
> <script type="text/javascript">
> var gs_ts=Number(new Date());
> </script>
> <style type="text/css">
> html,body,form,table,div,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6,img,ol,ul,li,button{margin:0;padding:
> 0;border:0;}table{border-collapse:collapse;border-width:0;empty-cells:show;}#gs_
> top{position:relative;min-width:980px;_width:expression(document.documentElement
> .clientWidth<982?"980px":"auto");}.gs_el_ph #gs_top,.gs_el_ta
> #gs_top{min-width:
> 300px;_width:expression(document.documentElement.clientWidth<302?"300px":"auto")
> ;}body,td{font-size:13px;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:1.24}body{back
>
>
> So, this is still in html, not in xml. How can I convert the page to
> xml?
>

What makes you think it's possible?  (Possible automatically, that is)  
There is no mapping from html to xml, so a program that tries this is
just guessing in many places.  Further, many, if not most, web pages are
not even valid html, just good enough to work with most browsers.  Now,
if the page was in valid xhtml, then it would already be valid xml.

Do you have a license from google?  If not, better read their terms of
service.  While they probably won't pursue the occasional page scraping,
you should consider the costs before spending too much effort.  Besides,
they have APIs for most of their services, and there might be one
that'll be much easier to use than trying to scrape the html.

Do you have a plan for what to do when the page layout changes?

You should look into Beautiful Soup;  it's designed for parsing sloppily
written html.  I've no direct experience with it, but it gets
recommended a lot.


-- 

DaveA



From redstone-cold at 163.com  Mon Oct  8 10:07:15 2012
From: redstone-cold at 163.com (iMath)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 07:07:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?To_get_the_accurate_value_of_1_=2D_0=2E999999999999999_=2C?=
	=?UTF-8?Q?how_to_implement_the_python_algorithm_=EF=BC=9F?=
Message-ID: <91ff9b33-c212-4be0-8ed0-1f6b16f56865@googlegroups.com>

To get the accurate value of 1 - 0.999999999999999 ,how to implement the python algorithm ?
BTW ?Windows?s calculator get the accurate value ?anyone who knows how to implement it ?


From sylvain.thenault at logilab.fr  Mon Oct  8 10:19:33 2012
From: sylvain.thenault at logilab.fr (Sylvain =?utf-8?B?VGjDqW5hdWx0?=)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 16:19:33 +0200
Subject: [ANN] pylint 0.26 / logilab-astng 0.24.1
Message-ID: <20121008141933.GH5694@logilab.fr>

Hi all,

I'm very pleased to announce new releases of Pylint and
underlying ASTNG library, respectivly 0.26 and 0.24.1. The great
news is that both bring a lot of new features and some bug fixes,
mostly provided by the community effort.

We're still trying to make it easier to contribute on our free
software project at Logilab, so I hope this will continue and
we'll get even more contritions in a near future, and an even
smarter/faster/whatever pylint!

So many thanks to all those who made that release, and enjoy!

-- 
Sylvain Th?nault, LOGILAB, Paris (01.45.32.03.12) - Toulouse (05.62.17.16.42)
Formations Python, Debian, M?th. Agiles: http://www.logilab.fr/formations
D?veloppement logiciel sur mesure:       http://www.logilab.fr/services
CubicWeb, the semantic web framework:    http://www.cubicweb.org


From yujian4newsgroup at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 10:40:05 2012
From: yujian4newsgroup at gmail.com (yujian)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 22:40:05 +0800
Subject: How to control the internet explorer?
In-Reply-To: <303d6d50-0672-4e76-8c3b-081ca433a8e3@p5g2000pbs.googlegroups.com>
References: <2d6d84d4-0f70-4280-96e2-f9fe17d5be8b@googlegroups.com>
	<k4smkc$tt3$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1944.1349665387.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<303d6d50-0672-4e76-8c3b-081ca433a8e3@p5g2000pbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAG2kGtJx-SH0J7Tqzs_BFiLRieqoKfRFSM07OHB4c+THJn8gug@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you

On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 11:37 AM, alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Oct 8, 1:03 pm, yujian <yujian4newsgr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I want to save all the URLs in current opened windows,  and then close
> > all the windows.
>
> Try mechanize or Selenium.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Mon Oct  8 10:44:01 2012
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2012 16:44:01 +0200
Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IFRvIGdldCB0aGUgYWNjdXJhdGUgdmFsdWUgb2YgMSAtIDAuOTk=?=
	=?UTF-8?B?OTk5OTk5OTk5OTk5OSAsaG93IHRvIGltcGxlbWVudCB0aGUgcHl0aG9uIGFsZ28=?=
	=?UTF-8?B?cml0aG0g77yf?=
In-Reply-To: <91ff9b33-c212-4be0-8ed0-1f6b16f56865@googlegroups.com>
References: <91ff9b33-c212-4be0-8ed0-1f6b16f56865@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <he5bk9-e3p.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 08.10.2012 16:07, schrieb iMath:
> To get the accurate value of 1 - 0.999999999999999 ,how to implement the python algorithm ?

Algorithms are generally language-agnostic, so what is your question

> BTW ?Windows?s calculator get the accurate value ?anyone who knows how to implement it ?

You should use a library that handles arbitrary-precision floating point 
numbers, Python's built-in floating point type corresponds to C's double 
type and that is typically a IEEE float, which means a limited 
precision. Just search the web for one. If you really want to do it 
yourself, you could leverage the fact that Python's integral type has a 
dynamic size, so that it can represent numbers with more than the 
typical 32 or 64 bits width.

BTW: If this is not a homework question, you should ask much more 
specifically. My anwers are intentionally vague in order to not spoil 
you the learning effect.

Cheers!

Uli




From subhabangalore at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 10:45:12 2012
From: subhabangalore at gmail.com (subhabangalore at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 07:45:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Question on Python Split
In-Reply-To: <68fc8fcb-b356-4fce-8541-e2abf371fecf@googlegroups.com>
References: <68fc8fcb-b356-4fce-8541-e2abf371fecf@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8c16a71f-0c2f-4253-8cb9-d9a9312137ed@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 8, 2012 1:00:52 AM UTC+5:30, subhaba... at gmail.com wrote:
> Dear Group,
> 
> 
> 
> Suppose I have a string as, 
> 
> 
> 
> "Project Gutenberg has 36000 free ebooks for Kindle Android iPad iPhone."
> 
> 
> 
> I am terming it as,
> 
> 
> 
> str1= "Project Gutenberg has 36000 free ebooks for Kindle Android iPad iPhone." 
> 
> 
> 
> I am working now with a split function,
> 
> 
> 
> str_words=str1.split()
> 
> so, I would get the result as,
> 
> ['Project', 'Gutenberg', 'has', '36000', 'free', 'ebooks', 'for', 'Kindle', 'Android', 'iPad', 'iPhone.']
> 
> 
> 
> But I am looking for,
> 
> 
> 
> ['Project Gutenberg', 'has 36000', 'free ebooks', 'for Kindle', 'Android iPad', 'iPhone']
> 
> 
> 
> This can be done if we assign the string as,
> 
> 
> 
> str1= "Project Gutenberg, has 36000, free ebooks, for Kindle, Android iPad, iPhone,"
> 
> 
> 
> and then assign the split statement as,
> 
> 
> 
> str1_word=str1.split(",")
> 
> 
> 
> would produce,
> 
> 
> 
> ['Project Gutenberg', ' has 36000', ' free ebooks', ' for Kindle', ' Android iPad', ' iPhone', '']
> 
> 
> 
> My objective generally is achieved, but I want to convert each group here in tuple so that it can be embedded, like,
> 
> 
> 
> [(Project Gutenberg), (has 36000), (free ebooks), (for Kindle), ( Android iPad), (iPhone), '']
> 
> 
> 
> as I see if I assign it as
> 
> 
> 
> for i in str1_word:
> 
>        print i
> 
>        ti=tuple(i)
> 
>        print ti
> 
> 
> 
> I am not getting the desired result.
> 
> 
> 
> If I work again from tuple point, I get it as,
> 
> >>> tup1=('Project Gutenberg')
> 
> >>> tup2=('has 36000')
> 
> >>> tup3=('free ebooks')
> 
> >>> tup4=('for Kindle')
> 
> >>> tup5=('Android iPad')
> 
> >>> tup6=tup1+tup2+tup3+tup4+tup5
> 
> >>> print tup6
> 
> Project Gutenberghas 36000free ebooksfor KindleAndroid iPad
> 
> 
> 
> Then how may I achieve it? If any one of the learned members can kindly guide me.
> 
> Thanks in Advance,
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Subhabrata.
> 
> 
> 
> NB: Apology for some minor errors.

Thank you for nice answer. Your codes and discussions always inspire me.

Regards,
Subhabrata. 


From d at davea.name  Mon Oct  8 10:48:44 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2012 10:48:44 -0400
Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IFRvIGdldCB0aGUgYWNjdXJhdGUgdmFsdWUgb2YgMSAtIDAuOTk=?=
	=?UTF-8?B?OTk5OTk5OTk5OTk5OSAsaG93IHRvIGltcGxlbWVudCB0aGUgcHl0aG9uIGFsZ28=?=
	=?UTF-8?B?cml0aG0g77yf?=
In-Reply-To: <91ff9b33-c212-4be0-8ed0-1f6b16f56865@googlegroups.com>
References: <91ff9b33-c212-4be0-8ed0-1f6b16f56865@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5072E7CC.2070405@davea.name>

On 10/08/2012 10:07 AM, iMath wrote:
> To get the accurate value of 1 - 0.999999999999999 ,how to implement the python algorithm ?
> BTW ?Windows?s calculator get the accurate value ?anyone who knows how to implement it ?

Windows calculator is an application, not a programming language.  Like
all applications, it has to deal with the finite accuracy of the
underlying processor and language, and choose an algorithm that will
please its users.

The Pentium chip (and its equivalents from AMD), used by Windows
machines and most others, has about 18 digits of accuracy in its binary
floating point math.  However, being binary, the data has to be
converted from decimal to binary (when the user types it in) and binary
to decimal (when displaying it).  Either of those conversions may have
quantization errors, and it's up to the program to deal with those or
other inaccuracies.

If you subtract two values, either of which may have quantization
errors, and they are quite close, then the apparent error is
magnified.   Out of your 18 digits internal accuracy, you now have only
about 2.

Therefore many programs more concerned with apparent accuracy will
ignore the binary floating point, and do their work in decimal.  That
doesn't eliminate calculation errors, but only quantization errors. 
That makes the user think he is getting more accuracy than he really is.

Since that seems to be your goal, I suggest you look into the Decimal
class, locating in the stdlib decimal.

import decimal
a = decimal.Decimal(4.3)
print(a)

5.0999999999999996447286321199499070644378662109375

Note that you still seem to have some "error" since the value 4.3 is a binary float, and has already been quantized.  If you want to avoid the binary stuff entirely, try going directly from string to Decimal.

b = decimal.Decimal("5.1")
print(b)

5.1

Back to your original contrived example,

c = decimal.Decimal("1.0")
d = decimal.Decimal("0.999999999999999")
print(c-d)

1E-15

The Decimal class has the disadvantage that it's tons slower on any modern machine I know of, but the advantage that you can specify how much precision you need it to use.  It doesn't eliminate errors at all, just one class of them.

e = decimal.Decimal("3.0")
print(c/e)

0.3333333333333333333333333333

That of course is the wrong answer.  The "right" answer would never stop printing.  We still have a finite number of digits.

print(c/e*e)

0.9999999999999999999999999999

"Fixing" this is subject for another lesson, someday.

-- 

DaveA



From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 11:00:04 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 02:00:04 +1100
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_To_get_the_accurate_value_of_1_=2D_0=2E9999999999999?=
	=?UTF-8?Q?99_=2Chow_to_implement_the_python_algorithm_=EF=BC=9F?=
In-Reply-To: <5072E7CC.2070405@davea.name>
References: <91ff9b33-c212-4be0-8ed0-1f6b16f56865@googlegroups.com>
	<5072E7CC.2070405@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmons5fwExNOaug0dNsym2eLe5Pduh6cVqynSAPoSowQdQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 1:48 AM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:
> import decimal
> a = decimal.Decimal(4.3)
> print(a)
>
> 5.0999999999999996447286321199499070644378662109375

Ah, the delights of copy-paste :)

> The Decimal class has the disadvantage that it's tons slower on any modern machine I know of...

Isn't it true, though, that Python 3.3 has a completely new
implementation of decimal that largely removes this disadvantage?

ChrisA


From d at davea.name  Mon Oct  8 11:13:42 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2012 11:13:42 -0400
Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IFRvIGdldCB0aGUgYWNjdXJhdGUgdmFsdWUgb2YgMSAtIDAuOTk=?=
	=?UTF-8?B?OTk5OTk5OTk5OTk5OSAsaG93IHRvIGltcGxlbWVudCB0aGUgcHl0aG9uIGFsZ28=?=
	=?UTF-8?B?cml0aG0g77yf?=
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmons5fwExNOaug0dNsym2eLe5Pduh6cVqynSAPoSowQdQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <91ff9b33-c212-4be0-8ed0-1f6b16f56865@googlegroups.com>
	<5072E7CC.2070405@davea.name>
	<CAPTjJmons5fwExNOaug0dNsym2eLe5Pduh6cVqynSAPoSowQdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5072EDA6.6040202@davea.name>

On 10/08/2012 11:00 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 1:48 AM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:
>> import decimal
>> a = decimal.Decimal(4.3)
>> print(a)
>>
>> 5.0999999999999996447286321199499070644378662109375
> Ah, the delights of copy-paste :)
>
>> The Decimal class has the disadvantage that it's tons slower on any modern machine I know of...
> Isn't it true, though, that Python 3.3 has a completely new
> implementation of decimal that largely removes this disadvantage?
>
> ChrisA

I wouldn't know, I'm on 3.2.  However, I sincerely doubt if it's within
a factor of 100 of the speed of the binary float, at least on
pentium-class machines that do binary float in microcode. A dozen years
or so ago, when the IEEE floating point standard was still being formed,
I tried to argue the committee into including decimal in the standard
(which they did much later).  Had it been in the standard then, we MIGHT
have had decimal fp on chip as well as binary.  Then again, the standard
was roughly based on the already-existing Intel 8087, so maybe it was
just hopeless.

I guess it's possible that for some operations, the cost of the
byte-code interpreter and function lookup, etc. might reduce the
apparent penalty.  Has anybody done any timings?


-- 

DaveA



From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 11:19:04 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 02:19:04 +1100
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_To_get_the_accurate_value_of_1_=2D_0=2E9999999999999?=
	=?UTF-8?Q?99_=2Chow_to_implement_the_python_algorithm_=EF=BC=9F?=
In-Reply-To: <5072EDA6.6040202@davea.name>
References: <91ff9b33-c212-4be0-8ed0-1f6b16f56865@googlegroups.com>
	<5072E7CC.2070405@davea.name>
	<CAPTjJmons5fwExNOaug0dNsym2eLe5Pduh6cVqynSAPoSowQdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5072EDA6.6040202@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmop_vB32NYs+VrZ1H8CWXnBwN2eTBsBjDO_09tGgYOEfw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 2:13 AM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:
> On 10/08/2012 11:00 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 1:48 AM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:
>>> The Decimal class has the disadvantage that it's tons slower on any modern machine I know of...
>> Isn't it true, though, that Python 3.3 has a completely new
>> implementation of decimal that largely removes this disadvantage?
>>
>> ChrisA
>
> I wouldn't know, I'm on 3.2.  However, I sincerely doubt if it's within
> a factor of 100 of the speed of the binary float, at least on
> pentium-class machines that do binary float in microcode. A dozen years
> or so ago, when the IEEE floating point standard was still being formed,
> I tried to argue the committee into including decimal in the standard
> (which they did much later).  Had it been in the standard then, we MIGHT
> have had decimal fp on chip as well as binary.  Then again, the standard
> was roughly based on the already-existing Intel 8087, so maybe it was
> just hopeless.
>
> I guess it's possible that for some operations, the cost of the
> byte-code interpreter and function lookup, etc. might reduce the
> apparent penalty.  Has anybody done any timings?

Try this, from python-dev list:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2012-September/121832.html

It's not as fast as float, but it sure gives a good account for itself.

ChrisA


From moonhkt at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 12:10:51 2012
From: moonhkt at gmail.com (moonhkt)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 09:10:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to build Object for List data
Message-ID: <1b747fb0-4afe-4cd4-92c7-66eb7c4fa5fc@c6g2000pba.googlegroups.com>

Hi All

I have Data call FM01. Each format have F1.. F50 Fields. And Global
Program G1..Gn.

The format like below as text file

FM01

Fld #    Field    Validation
1        F1          N/A
2        F2          N/A
3        F3          Program1,1,2,3     # Add F1 and F2 value to F3
4        F4          Program2,1,3,4     # Add F1 and F3 value to F4
...
50


Seq  validation
1       Program3,1,3,4      # max(F1,F3) to F4
......
n
How to using python to Read the text file, Build the data as object
class ?

moonhkt


From gandalf at shopzeus.com  Mon Oct  8 14:50:31 2012
From: gandalf at shopzeus.com (Laszlo Nagy)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2012 20:50:31 +0200
Subject: how to build Object for List data
In-Reply-To: <1b747fb0-4afe-4cd4-92c7-66eb7c4fa5fc@c6g2000pba.googlegroups.com>
References: <1b747fb0-4afe-4cd4-92c7-66eb7c4fa5fc@c6g2000pba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50732077.4000701@shopzeus.com>

>
> Seq  validation
> 1       Program3,1,3,4      # max(F1,F3) to F4
> ......
> n
> How to using python to Read the text file, Build the data as object
> class ?
Open the file using the open() command. Then iterate over the lines 
within a stateful algorithm that parses the lines with regular expressions.

What did you try so far?


From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 15:13:44 2012
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 15:13:44 -0400
Subject: how to build Object for List data
In-Reply-To: <50732077.4000701@shopzeus.com>
References: <1b747fb0-4afe-4cd4-92c7-66eb7c4fa5fc@c6g2000pba.googlegroups.com>
	<50732077.4000701@shopzeus.com>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+x+a4h5N58DyaMs69Y6+mPiALSmLHxk+QJzx38vKAPnbw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 2:50 PM, Laszlo Nagy <gandalf at shopzeus.com> wrote:
>>
>> Seq  validation
>> 1       Program3,1,3,4      # max(F1,F3) to F4
>> ......
>> n
>> How to using python to Read the text file, Build the data as object
>> class ?
>
> Open the file using the open() command. Then iterate over the lines within a
> stateful algorithm that parses the lines with regular expressions.

before you go the regex route try str.split() since it looks like your
columns are separated by tabs or spaces.  You could also look into csv
package.

>
> What did you try so far?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



-- 
Joel Goldstick


From mooremathewl at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 15:28:43 2012
From: mooremathewl at gmail.com (mooremathewl at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 12:28:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
Message-ID: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>

What's the best way to accomplish this?  Am I over-complicating it?  My gut feeling is there is a better way than the following:

>>> import itertools
>>> x = [1, 2, 3]
>>> y = list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(('insertme', x[i]) for i in range(len(x))))
>>> y
['insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3]

I appreciate any and all feedback.

--Matt


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 15:42:08 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 13:42:08 -0600
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
In-Reply-To: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidn9csn55k8_Xv37bwRe6d9WfVTG5=bp-RFzRcJtqxp9tQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 1:28 PM,  <mooremathewl at gmail.com> wrote:
> What's the best way to accomplish this?  Am I over-complicating it?  My gut feeling is there is a better way than the following:
>
>>>> import itertools
>>>> x = [1, 2, 3]
>>>> y = list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(('insertme', x[i]) for i in range(len(x))))
>>>> y
> ['insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3]
>
> I appreciate any and all feedback.

Using the "roundrobin" recipe from the itertools documentation:

x = [1, 2, 3]
y = list(roundrobin(itertools.repeat('insertme', len(x)), x))


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Oct  8 15:43:12 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2012 20:43:12 +0100
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
In-Reply-To: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50732CD0.2010804@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-08 20:28, mooremathewl at gmail.com wrote:
> What's the best way to accomplish this?  Am I over-complicating it?  My gut feeling is there is a better way than the following:
>
>>>> import itertools
>>>> x = [1, 2, 3]
>>>> y = list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(('insertme', x[i]) for i in range(len(x))))
>>>> y
> ['insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3]
>
> I appreciate any and all feedback.
>
Slightly better is:

y = list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(('insertme', i) for i in x))



From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Mon Oct  8 15:45:42 2012
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 12:45:42 -0700
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
In-Reply-To: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxuwBbkcW7Gt-W+0FcDDyMePyU3SVBWHu+XpcMUX7dQAFA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 12:28 PM, <mooremathewl at gmail.com> wrote:

> What's the best way to accomplish this?  Am I over-complicating it?  My
> gut feeling is there is a better way than the following:
>
> >>> import itertools
> >>> x = [1, 2, 3]
> >>> y = list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(('insertme', x[i]) for i in
> range(len(x))))
> >>> y
> ['insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3]
>

There is no need to use range and iterate over the indices:
list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(('insertme', i) for i in x))

You could simplify that even farther to a simple list expression:
[('insertme', i) for i in x]

You could also use zip and repeat:
zip(itertools.repeat('insertme'), x) # Use itertools.izip for a generator
rather than a list.

All code is untested.


>
> I appreciate any and all feedback.
>
> --Matt
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 15:52:07 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 20:52:07 +0100
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
In-Reply-To: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qXxCp6iNjdMYjwsDt_u6JET5rkYpVryAzSRPDeCThZyGQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 8 October 2012 20:28, <mooremathewl at gmail.com> wrote:

> What's the best way to accomplish this?  Am I over-complicating it?  My
> gut feeling is there is a better way than the following:
>
> >>> import itertools
> >>> x = [1, 2, 3]
> >>> y = list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(('insertme', x[i]) for i in
> range(len(x))))
> >>> y
> ['insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3]
>
> I appreciate any and all feedback.
>

That's probably not the best way.

list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(zip(itertools.repeat("insertme"), [1, 2,
> 3])))

(tested)

written like this:

inserts = itertools.repeat("insertme")

itertools.chain.from_iterable(zip(inserts, x))

(untested)

But it's not far. I wouldn't use Ian Kelly's method (no offence), because
of len(x): it's less compatible with iterables. Others have ninja'd me with
good comments, too.
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From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 16:04:38 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 14:04:38 -0600
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qXxCp6iNjdMYjwsDt_u6JET5rkYpVryAzSRPDeCThZyGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
	<CAN1F8qXxCp6iNjdMYjwsDt_u6JET5rkYpVryAzSRPDeCThZyGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmEECX9O94foOEW5LmtT1oB4KJERZXZ+6sRboiHi_=gNg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Joshua Landau
<joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com> wrote:
> But it's not far. I wouldn't use Ian Kelly's method (no offence), because of
> len(x): it's less compatible with iterables. Others have ninja'd me with
> good comments, too.

That's fair, I probably wouldn't use it either.  It points to a
possible need for a roundrobin variant that truncates like zip when
one of the iterables runs out.  It would have to do some look-ahead,
but it would remove the need for the len(x) restriction on
itertools.repeat.


From agonh at freenet.de  Mon Oct  8 16:12:09 2012
From: agonh at freenet.de (Agon Hajdari)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2012 22:12:09 +0200
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
In-Reply-To: <CALvWhxuwBbkcW7Gt-W+0FcDDyMePyU3SVBWHu+XpcMUX7dQAFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
	<CALvWhxuwBbkcW7Gt-W+0FcDDyMePyU3SVBWHu+XpcMUX7dQAFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50733399.5040701@freenet.de>

On 10/08/2012 09:45 PM, Chris Kaynor wrote:
> [('insertme', i) for i in x]

This is not enough, you have to merge it afterwards.

y = [item for tup in y for item in tup]



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Oct  8 17:12:07 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2012 23:12:07 +0200
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k4vfim$fjd$1@ger.gmane.org>

mooremathewl at gmail.com wrote:

> What's the best way to accomplish this?  Am I over-complicating it?  My
> gut feeling is there is a better way than the following:
> 
>>>> import itertools
>>>> x = [1, 2, 3]
>>>> y = list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(('insertme', x[i]) for i in
>>>> range(len(x)))) y
> ['insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3]

Less general than chain.from_iterable(izip(repeat("insertme"), x)):

>>> x = [1, 2, 3]
>>> y = 2*len(x)*["insertme"]
>>> y[1::2] = x
>>> y
['insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3]




From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Mon Oct  8 17:15:27 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 21:15:27 +0000
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
In-Reply-To: <50733399.5040701@freenet.de>
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
	<CALvWhxuwBbkcW7Gt-W+0FcDDyMePyU3SVBWHu+XpcMUX7dQAFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<50733399.5040701@freenet.de>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF474166DFE4C@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Agon Hajdari wrote:
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 3:12 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: Insert item before each element of a list
> 
> On 10/08/2012 09:45 PM, Chris Kaynor wrote:
> > [('insertme', i) for i in x]
> 
> This is not enough, you have to merge it afterwards.

Why do you say that? It seems to work just fine for me.

>>> x
[0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
>>> [('insertme', i) for i in x]
[('insertme', 0), ('insertme', 1), ('insertme', 2), ('insertme', 3), ('insertme', 4)]

> 
> y = [item for tup in y for item in tup]
> 

This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From agonh at freenet.de  Mon Oct  8 17:39:26 2012
From: agonh at freenet.de (Agon Hajdari)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2012 23:39:26 +0200
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
In-Reply-To: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF474166DFE4C@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
	<CALvWhxuwBbkcW7Gt-W+0FcDDyMePyU3SVBWHu+XpcMUX7dQAFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<50733399.5040701@freenet.de>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF474166DFE4C@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
Message-ID: <5073480E.6090709@freenet.de>

On 10/08/2012 11:15 PM, Prasad, Ramit wrote:
> Agon Hajdari wrote:
>> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 3:12 PM
>> To: python-list at python.org
>> Subject: Re: Insert item before each element of a list
>>
>> On 10/08/2012 09:45 PM, Chris Kaynor wrote:
>>> [('insertme', i) for i in x]
>>
>> This is not enough, you have to merge it afterwards.
> 
> Why do you say that? It seems to work just fine for me.
> 
>>>> x
> [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
>>>> [('insertme', i) for i in x]
> [('insertme', 0), ('insertme', 1), ('insertme', 2), ('insertme', 3), ('insertme', 4)]
> 
>>
>> y = [item for tup in y for item in tup]
>>
> 
> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
> securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
> confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
> available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  
> 

I think he wanted to have a 'plain' list
a = [0, 1, 0, 2, 0, 3]
and not
a = [(0, 1), (0, 2), (0, 3)]


From thbach at students.uni-mainz.de  Mon Oct  8 17:45:58 2012
From: thbach at students.uni-mainz.de (Thomas Bach)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 23:45:58 +0200
Subject: Unpaking Tuple
In-Reply-To: <50704975$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <801f0e2c-7d1d-4e91-bec5-78c5e53a70ec@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1898.1349519275.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-289A2F.08462806102012@news.panix.com>
	<50704975$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20121008214558.GB4069@taris.box>

Hi there,

On Sat, Oct 06, 2012 at 03:08:38PM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> my_tuple = my_tuple[:4]
> a,b,c,d = my_tuple if len(my_tuple) == 4 else (my_tuple + (None,)*4)[:4]
> 

Are you sure this works as you expect? I just stumbled over the following:

$ python
Python 3.2.3 (default, Jun 25 2012, 23:10:56) 
[GCC 4.7.1] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> split = ['foo', 'bar']
>>> head, tail = split if len(split) == 2 else split[0], None
>>> head
['foo', 'bar']
>>> tail
>>> 

I don't get it! Could someone help me, please? Why is head not 'foo'
and tail not 'bar'?

Regards,
	Thomas


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Mon Oct  8 18:12:38 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 22:12:38 +0000
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
In-Reply-To: <5073480E.6090709@freenet.de>
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
	<CALvWhxuwBbkcW7Gt-W+0FcDDyMePyU3SVBWHu+XpcMUX7dQAFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<50733399.5040701@freenet.de>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF474166DFE4C@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
	<5073480E.6090709@freenet.de>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF474166DFF1C@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Agon Hajdari wrote:
> On 10/08/2012 11:15 PM, Prasad, Ramit wrote:
> > Agon Hajdari wrote:
> >>
> >> On 10/08/2012 09:45 PM, Chris Kaynor wrote:
> >>> [('insertme', i) for i in x]
> >>
> >> This is not enough, you have to merge it afterwards.
> >
> > Why do you say that? It seems to work just fine for me.
> >
> >>>> x
> > [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
> >>>> [('insertme', i) for i in x]
> > [('insertme', 0), ('insertme', 1), ('insertme', 2), ('insertme', 3), ('insertme', 4)]
> >
> >>
> >> y = [item for tup in y for item in tup]
> 
> I think he wanted to have a 'plain' list
> a = [0, 1, 0, 2, 0, 3]
> and not
> a = [(0, 1), (0, 2), (0, 3)]

You are absolutely correct. I missed that when I tried it.
Instead of the nested list comprehension, I might have used
map instead.

>>> y = [('insertme', i) for i in x]
>>> z = []
>>> _ = map( z.extend, y )
>>> z
['insertme', 0, 'insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3, 'insertme', 4]

I am not sure which is more Pythonic, but to me map + list.extend tells
me more explicitly that I am dealing with an iterable of iterables.
It might make more sense to only to me though.


This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Mon Oct  8 18:21:26 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 22:21:26 +0000
Subject: Unpaking Tuple
In-Reply-To: <20121008214558.GB4069@taris.box>
References: <801f0e2c-7d1d-4e91-bec5-78c5e53a70ec@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1898.1349519275.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-289A2F.08462806102012@news.panix.com>
	<50704975$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121008214558.GB4069@taris.box>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF474166DFF3F@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Thomas Bach wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> On Sat, Oct 06, 2012 at 03:08:38PM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> >
> > my_tuple = my_tuple[:4]
> > a,b,c,d = my_tuple if len(my_tuple) == 4 else (my_tuple + (None,)*4)[:4]
> >
> 
> Are you sure this works as you expect? I just stumbled over the following:
> 
> $ python
> Python 3.2.3 (default, Jun 25 2012, 23:10:56)
> [GCC 4.7.1] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> split = ['foo', 'bar']
> >>> head, tail = split if len(split) == 2 else split[0], None
> >>> head
> ['foo', 'bar']
> >>> tail
> >>>
> 
> I don't get it! Could someone help me, please? Why is head not 'foo'
> and tail not 'bar'?
> 
> Regards,
> 	Thomas
> --

I think you just need to wrap the else in parenthesis so the
else clause is treated as a tuple. Without the parenthesis 
I believe it is grouping the code like this.

head, tail = (split if len(split) == 2 else split[0] ), None

You want:
head, tail = split if len(split) == 2 else (split[0], None )


Ramit
This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Oct  8 18:24:44 2012
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2012 15:24:44 -0700
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x1uh8y53n.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

mooremathewl at gmail.com writes:
>>>> x = [1, 2, 3] ..
>>>> y
> ['insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3]

def ix(prefix, x):
   for a in x:
      yield prefix
      yield a

y = list(ix('insertme', x))

================

from itertools import *
y = list(chain.from_iterable(izip(repeat('insertme'), x)))

================

etc.


From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 18:32:30 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 23:32:30 +0100
Subject: Unpaking Tuple
In-Reply-To: <20121008214558.GB4069@taris.box>
References: <801f0e2c-7d1d-4e91-bec5-78c5e53a70ec@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1898.1349519275.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-289A2F.08462806102012@news.panix.com>
	<50704975$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121008214558.GB4069@taris.box>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qVFydQNGP9NMRm8tW7hGx28ajccj50Coc-_4KaoS7z6VQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 8 October 2012 22:45, Thomas Bach <thbach at students.uni-mainz.de> wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> On Sat, Oct 06, 2012 at 03:08:38PM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> >
> > my_tuple = my_tuple[:4]
> > a,b,c,d = my_tuple if len(my_tuple) == 4 else (my_tuple + (None,)*4)[:4]
> >
>
> Are you sure this works as you expect? I just stumbled over the following:
>
> $ python
> Python 3.2.3 (default, Jun 25 2012, 23:10:56)
> [GCC 4.7.1] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> split = ['foo', 'bar']
> >>> head, tail = split if len(split) == 2 else split[0], None
> >>> head
> ['foo', 'bar']
> >>> tail
> >>>
>
> I don't get it! Could someone help me, please? Why is head not 'foo'
> and tail not 'bar'?
>

Here's a hint:

 >>> split = "ab"
>>> head, tail = split if len(split) == 2 else split[0], None
>>> head, tail
('ab', None)
>>> head, tail = (split if len(split) == 2 else split[0]), None
>>> head, tail
('ab', None)
>>> head, tail = split if len(split) == 2 else (split[0], None)
>>> head, tail
('a', 'b')

Regards,
>         Thomas
>
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From nobody at nowhere.com  Mon Oct  8 18:35:57 2012
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2012 23:35:57 +0100
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2012.10.08.22.35.56.530000@nowhere.com>

On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:28:43 -0700, mooremathewl wrote:

>>>> import itertools
>>>> x = [1, 2, 3]
>>>> y = list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(('insertme', x[i]) for i in
>>>> range(len(x)))) y
> ['insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3]

	>>> [i for j in [1,2,3] for i in ('insertme', j)]
	['insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3]



From amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 19:14:19 2012
From: amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com (Amirouche Boubekki)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 01:14:19 +0200
Subject: Plumbum (Shell Combinators) hits v1.0
In-Reply-To: <5ce2ffb6-8918-46f2-89e5-8c34be78857a@googlegroups.com>
References: <5ce2ffb6-8918-46f2-89e5-8c34be78857a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAL7_Mo_mCrX8t2xuMvP8ES9O4XyTpbjij2wCagY_XT-P4=0goQ@mail.gmail.com>

2012/10/6 Tomer Filiba <tomerfiliba at gmail.com>

> http://plumbum.readthedocs.org/en/latest/index.html
>
> Ever wished the wrist-handiness of shell scripts be put into a real
> programming language? Say hello to Plumbum Shell Combinators. Plumbum
> (Latin for lead, which was used to create pipes back in the day) is a small
> yet feature-rich library for shell script-like programs in Python. The
> motto of the library is ?Never write shell scripts again?, and thus it
> attempts to mimic the shell syntax (shell combinators) where it makes
> sense, while keeping it all Pythonic and cross-platform.
>
> Apart from shell-like syntax and handy shortcuts, the library provides
> local and remote command execution (over SSH), local and remote file-system
> paths, easy working-directory and environment manipulation, and a
> programmatic Command-Line Interface (CLI) application toolkit.


Awesome, can it be used in combination with CJSH
http://jonathanscorner.com/cjsh/  ?

Regards,

Amirouche
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From foo at email.invalid  Mon Oct  8 20:08:02 2012
From: foo at email.invalid (Alex)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 00:08:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k4vpt2$n2s$1@dont-email.me>

mooremathewl at gmail.com wrote:

> What's the best way to accomplish this?  Am I over-complicating it?
> My gut feeling is there is a better way than the following:
> 
> >>> import itertools
> >>> x = [1, 2, 3]
> >>> y = list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(('insertme', x[i]) for i
> in range(len(x)))) >>> y
> ['insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3]
> 
> I appreciate any and all feedback.
> 
> --Matt

Just like the Zen of Python (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0020/)
says . . . "There should be at least ten-- and preferably more --clever
and obscure ways to do it."


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Oct  8 21:45:16 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2012 21:45:16 -0400
Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IFRvIGdldCB0aGUgYWNjdXJhdGUgdmFsdWUgb2YgMSAtIDAuOTk=?=
	=?UTF-8?B?OTk5OTk5OTk5OTk5OSAsaG93IHRvIGltcGxlbWVudCB0aGUgcHl0aG9uIGFsZ28=?=
	=?UTF-8?B?cml0aG0g77yf?=
In-Reply-To: <5072EDA6.6040202@davea.name>
References: <91ff9b33-c212-4be0-8ed0-1f6b16f56865@googlegroups.com>
	<5072E7CC.2070405@davea.name>
	<CAPTjJmons5fwExNOaug0dNsym2eLe5Pduh6cVqynSAPoSowQdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5072EDA6.6040202@davea.name>
Message-ID: <k4vvjt$dtr$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/8/2012 11:13 AM, Dave Angel wrote:

>> Isn't it true, though, that Python 3.3 has a completely new
>> implementation of decimal that largely removes this disadvantage?

> I wouldn't know, I'm on 3.2.  However, I sincerely doubt if it's within
> a factor of 100 of the speed of the binary float, at least on

 >>> import timeit as tt
 >>> tt.repeat("float('1.0')-float('0.9999999999')")
[0.6856039948871151, 0.669049830953858, 0.668688006423692]
 >>> tt.repeat("Decimal('1.0')-Decimal('0.9999999999')", "from decimal 
import Decimal")
[1.3204655578092428, 1.286977575486688, 1.2893188292009938]

 >>> tt.repeat("a-b", "a = 1.0; b=0.9999999999")
[0.06100386171601713, 0.044538539999592786, 0.04451548406098027]
 >>> tt.repeat("a-b", "from decimal import Decimal as D; a = D('1.0'); b 
= D('0.9999999999')")
[0.14685526219517442, 0.12909696344064514, 0.12646059371189722]

A factor of 3, as S. Krah, the cdecimal author, claimed
-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Oct  8 21:58:54 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2012 21:58:54 -0400
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
In-Reply-To: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k500df$j29$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/8/2012 3:28 PM, mooremathewl at gmail.com wrote:
> What's the best way to accomplish this?  Am I over-complicating it?  My gut feeling is there is a better way than the following:
>
>>>> import itertools
>>>> x = [1, 2, 3]
>>>> y = list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(('insertme', x[i]) for i in range(len(x))))
>>>> y
> ['insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3]

The straightforward, crystal-clear, old-fashioned way

 >>> lst = []
 >>> for item in [1,2,3]:
	lst.append('insert me')
	lst.append(item)

 >>> lst
['insert me', 1, 'insert me', 2, 'insert me', 3]

Paul Rubin's list(gfunc(prefix, lst)) is similar in execution.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From roy at panix.com  Mon Oct  8 22:06:50 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2012 22:06:50 -0400
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1976.1349747963.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-323E36.22065008102012@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1976.1349747963.27098.python-list at python.org>,
 Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

> On 10/8/2012 3:28 PM, mooremathewl at gmail.com wrote:
> > What's the best way to accomplish this?  Am I over-complicating it?  My gut 
> > feeling is there is a better way than the following:
> >
> >>>> import itertools
> >>>> x = [1, 2, 3]
> >>>> y = list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(('insertme', x[i]) for i in 
> >>>> range(len(x))))
> >>>> y
> > ['insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3]
> 
> The straightforward, crystal-clear, old-fashioned way
> 
>  >>> lst = []
>  >>> for item in [1,2,3]:
> 	lst.append('insert me')
> 	lst.append(item)

I'm going to go with this one.  I think people tend to over-abuse list 
comprehensions.  They're a great shorthand for many of the most common 
use cases, but once you stray from the simple examples, you quickly end 
up with something totally obscure.

> y = list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(('insertme', x[i]) for i in range(len(x))))

A statement ending in four close parens is usually going to be pretty 
difficult to figure out.  This is one where I had to pull out my pencil 
and start pairing them off manually to figure out how to parse it.


From d at davea.name  Mon Oct  8 22:20:23 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2012 22:20:23 -0400
Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IFRvIGdldCB0aGUgYWNjdXJhdGUgdmFsdWUgb2YgMSAtIDAuOTk=?=
	=?UTF-8?B?OTk5OTk5OTk5OTk5OSAsaG93IHRvIGltcGxlbWVudCB0aGUgcHl0aG9uIGFsZ28=?=
	=?UTF-8?B?cml0aG0g77yf?=
In-Reply-To: <k4vvjt$dtr$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <91ff9b33-c212-4be0-8ed0-1f6b16f56865@googlegroups.com>
	<5072E7CC.2070405@davea.name>
	<CAPTjJmons5fwExNOaug0dNsym2eLe5Pduh6cVqynSAPoSowQdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5072EDA6.6040202@davea.name> <k4vvjt$dtr$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <507389E7.2050408@davea.name>

On 10/08/2012 09:45 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 10/8/2012 11:13 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
>
>>> Isn't it true, though, that Python 3.3 has a completely new
>>> implementation of decimal that largely removes this disadvantage?
>
>> I wouldn't know, I'm on 3.2.  However, I sincerely doubt if it's within
>> a factor of 100 of the speed of the binary float, at least on
>
> >>> import timeit as tt
> >>> tt.repeat("float('1.0')-float('0.9999999999')")
> [0.6856039948871151, 0.669049830953858, 0.668688006423692]
> >>> tt.repeat("Decimal('1.0')-Decimal('0.9999999999')", "from decimal
> import Decimal")
> [1.3204655578092428, 1.286977575486688, 1.2893188292009938]
>
> >>> tt.repeat("a-b", "a = 1.0; b=0.9999999999")
> [0.06100386171601713, 0.044538539999592786, 0.04451548406098027]
> >>> tt.repeat("a-b", "from decimal import Decimal as D; a = D('1.0');
> b = D('0.9999999999')")
> [0.14685526219517442, 0.12909696344064514, 0.12646059371189722]
>
> A factor of 3, as S. Krah, the cdecimal author, claimed

I concede the point.  But I was "sincere" in my doubt.

What I'm curious about now is 1) how much the various operators vary in
that 3:1 ratio  and 2) how much the overhead portions are using of that
time. 

I have to assume that timeit.repeat doesn't count the time spent in its
second argument, right?  Because converting a string to a Decimal should
be much faster than converting one to float.  But what about the
overhead of eval(), or whatever it uses?  Is the "a-b" converted to byte
code just once?  Or is it recompiled each time through tje loop?

I have to admit not spending much time in timeit();  I usually end up
timing things with my own loops.  So i'd really like to understand how
overhead is figured.

-- 

DaveA



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 22:34:26 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 19:34:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1976.1349747963.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-323E36.22065008102012@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <d0a5ccce-4a18-41e2-b804-795891db895b@lb2g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 9, 7:06?am, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
> In article <mailman.1976.1349747963.27098.python-l... at python.org>,
> ?Terry Reedy <tjre... at udel.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 10/8/2012 3:28 PM, mooremath... at gmail.com wrote:
> > > What's the best way to accomplish this? ?Am I over-complicating it? ?My gut
> > > feeling is there is a better way than the following:
>
> > >>>> import itertools
> > >>>> x = [1, 2, 3]
> > >>>> y = list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(('insertme', x[i]) for i in
> > >>>> range(len(x))))
> > >>>> y
> > > ['insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3]
>
> > The straightforward, crystal-clear, old-fashioned way
>
> > ?>>> lst = []
> > ?>>> for item in [1,2,3]:
> > ? ?lst.append('insert me')
> > ? ?lst.append(item)
>
> I'm going to go with this one. ?I think people tend to over-abuse list
> comprehensions. ?They're a great shorthand for many of the most common
> use cases, but once you stray from the simple examples, you quickly end
> up with something totally obscure.
>
> > y = list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(('insertme', x[i]) for i in range(len(x))))
>
> A statement ending in four close parens is usually going to be pretty
> difficult to figure out. ?This is one where I had to pull out my pencil
> and start pairing them off manually to figure out how to parse it.

How about a 2-paren version?

>>> x = [1,2,3]
>>> reduce(operator.add,  [['insert', a] for a in x])
['insert', 1, 'insert', 2, 'insert', 3]


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 22:39:28 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 19:39:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1976.1349747963.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-323E36.22065008102012@news.panix.com>
	<d0a5ccce-4a18-41e2-b804-795891db895b@lb2g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4ebfe84f-dfaa-40cb-88d9-414660d0c42f@ro10g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 9, 7:34?am, rusi <rustompm... at gmail.com> wrote:
> How about a 2-paren version?
>
> >>> x = [1,2,3]
> >>> reduce(operator.add, ?[['insert', a] for a in x])
>
> ['insert', 1, 'insert', 2, 'insert', 3]

Or if one prefers the different parens on the other side:

>>> reduce(operator.add, (['insert', a] for a in x))
['insert', 1, 'insert', 2, 'insert', 3]


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 23:11:32 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 20:11:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1976.1349747963.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-323E36.22065008102012@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <fdad0a35-9f89-4747-af13-aad171cff0bd@wm7g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 9, 12:06?pm, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
> I'm going to go with this one. ?I think people tend to over-abuse list
> comprehensions.

I weep whenever I find `_ = [...]` in other people's code.


From typetoken at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 23:13:12 2012
From: typetoken at gmail.com (Token Type)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 20:13:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: wordnet semantic similarity: how to refer to elements of a pair
	in a list? can we sort dictionary according to the value?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1928.1349632173.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <2d6d84d4-0f70-4280-96e2-f9fe17d5be8b@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1928.1349632173.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <62e7500b-0d7d-4d5e-8c10-197d1988f364@googlegroups.com>

yes, thanks all your tips. I did try sorted with itemgetter. However, the sorted results are same as follows whether I set reverse=True or reverse= False. Isn't it strange? Thanks.

>>> import nltk
>>> from nltk.corpus import wordnet as wn
>>> pairs = {'car':'automobile', 'gem':'jewel', 'journey':'voyage'}
>>> for key in pairs:
	list_simi=[]
	from operator import itemgetter
        word1 = wn.synset(str(key) + '.n.01') 
        word2 = wn.synset(str(pairs[key])+'.n.01') 
        similarity = word1.path_similarity(word2) 
        list_simi.append((key+'-'+pairs[key],similarity))
        sorted(list_simi, key=itemgetter(1), reverse=True)

        
[('car-automobile', 1.0)]
[('journey-voyage', 0.25)]
[('gem-jewel', 0.125)]
>>> for key in pairs:
	list_simi=[]
	from operator import itemgetter
        word1 = wn.synset(str(key) + '.n.01') 
        word2 = wn.synset(str(pairs[key])+'.n.01') 
        similarity = word1.path_similarity(word2) 
        list_simi.append((key+'-'+pairs[key],similarity))
        sorted(list_simi, key=itemgetter(1), reverse=False)

        
[('car-automobile', 1.0)]
[('journey-voyage', 0.25)]
[('gem-jewel', 0.125)]


From typetoken at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 23:13:12 2012
From: typetoken at gmail.com (Token Type)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 20:13:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: wordnet semantic similarity: how to refer to elements of a pair
	in a list? can we sort dictionary according to the value?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1928.1349632173.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <2d6d84d4-0f70-4280-96e2-f9fe17d5be8b@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1928.1349632173.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <62e7500b-0d7d-4d5e-8c10-197d1988f364@googlegroups.com>

yes, thanks all your tips. I did try sorted with itemgetter. However, the sorted results are same as follows whether I set reverse=True or reverse= False. Isn't it strange? Thanks.

>>> import nltk
>>> from nltk.corpus import wordnet as wn
>>> pairs = {'car':'automobile', 'gem':'jewel', 'journey':'voyage'}
>>> for key in pairs:
	list_simi=[]
	from operator import itemgetter
        word1 = wn.synset(str(key) + '.n.01') 
        word2 = wn.synset(str(pairs[key])+'.n.01') 
        similarity = word1.path_similarity(word2) 
        list_simi.append((key+'-'+pairs[key],similarity))
        sorted(list_simi, key=itemgetter(1), reverse=True)

        
[('car-automobile', 1.0)]
[('journey-voyage', 0.25)]
[('gem-jewel', 0.125)]
>>> for key in pairs:
	list_simi=[]
	from operator import itemgetter
        word1 = wn.synset(str(key) + '.n.01') 
        word2 = wn.synset(str(pairs[key])+'.n.01') 
        similarity = word1.path_similarity(word2) 
        list_simi.append((key+'-'+pairs[key],similarity))
        sorted(list_simi, key=itemgetter(1), reverse=False)

        
[('car-automobile', 1.0)]
[('journey-voyage', 0.25)]
[('gem-jewel', 0.125)]


From typetoken at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 23:23:23 2012
From: typetoken at gmail.com (Token Type)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 20:23:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: wordnet semantic similarity: how to refer to elements of a pair
	in a list? can we sort dictionary according to the value?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1978.1349752402.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <2d6d84d4-0f70-4280-96e2-f9fe17d5be8b@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1928.1349632173.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.1978.1349752402.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <de950410-af23-440c-b805-09a92a50df1a@googlegroups.com>

Dear all, the problem has been solved as follows. Thanks anyway:
>>> import nltk
>>> from nltk.corpus import wordnet as wn
>>> pairs = {'car':'automobile', 'gem':'jewel', 'journey':'voyage'}
>>> list_simi=[]
>>> for key in pairs:
	word1 = wn.synset(str(key) + '.n.01') 
        word2 = wn.synset(str(pairs[key])+'.n.01') 
        similarity = word1.path_similarity(word2) 
        list_simi.append((key+'-'+pairs[key],similarity))

        
>>> from operator import itemgetter
>>> sorted(list_simi, key=itemgetter(1), reverse=False)
[('gem-jewel', 0.125), ('journey-voyage', 0.25), ('car-automobile', 1.0)]
>>> sorted(list_simi, key=itemgetter(1), reverse=True)
[('car-automobile', 1.0), ('journey-voyage', 0.25), ('gem-jewel', 0.125)]
>>> sorted(list_simi, key=itemgetter(1))
[('gem-jewel', 0.125), ('journey-voyage', 0.25), ('car-automobile', 1.0)]


From typetoken at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 23:23:23 2012
From: typetoken at gmail.com (Token Type)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 20:23:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: wordnet semantic similarity: how to refer to elements of a pair
	in a list? can we sort dictionary according to the value?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1978.1349752402.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <2d6d84d4-0f70-4280-96e2-f9fe17d5be8b@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1928.1349632173.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.1978.1349752402.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <de950410-af23-440c-b805-09a92a50df1a@googlegroups.com>

Dear all, the problem has been solved as follows. Thanks anyway:
>>> import nltk
>>> from nltk.corpus import wordnet as wn
>>> pairs = {'car':'automobile', 'gem':'jewel', 'journey':'voyage'}
>>> list_simi=[]
>>> for key in pairs:
	word1 = wn.synset(str(key) + '.n.01') 
        word2 = wn.synset(str(pairs[key])+'.n.01') 
        similarity = word1.path_similarity(word2) 
        list_simi.append((key+'-'+pairs[key],similarity))

        
>>> from operator import itemgetter
>>> sorted(list_simi, key=itemgetter(1), reverse=False)
[('gem-jewel', 0.125), ('journey-voyage', 0.25), ('car-automobile', 1.0)]
>>> sorted(list_simi, key=itemgetter(1), reverse=True)
[('car-automobile', 1.0), ('journey-voyage', 0.25), ('gem-jewel', 0.125)]
>>> sorted(list_simi, key=itemgetter(1))
[('gem-jewel', 0.125), ('journey-voyage', 0.25), ('car-automobile', 1.0)]


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 23:24:46 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 21:24:46 -0600
Subject: wordnet semantic similarity: how to refer to elements of a pair
	in a list? can we sort dictionary according to the value?
In-Reply-To: <62e7500b-0d7d-4d5e-8c10-197d1988f364@googlegroups.com>
References: <2d6d84d4-0f70-4280-96e2-f9fe17d5be8b@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1928.1349632173.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<62e7500b-0d7d-4d5e-8c10-197d1988f364@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmKfVuN2WsNt66A2sQy7MZZ=n6VSCsvXNTBgZW8_HGGZg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 9:13 PM, Token Type <typetoken at gmail.com> wrote:
> yes, thanks all your tips. I did try sorted with itemgetter. However, the sorted results are same as follows whether I set reverse=True or reverse= False. Isn't it strange? Thanks.

First of all, "sorted" does not sort the list in place as you seem to
be expecting.
It returns a new sorted list.  Since your code does not store the
return value of the sorted call anywhere, the sorted list is discarded
and only the original list is kept.  If you want to sort a list in
place, use the list.sort method instead.

Second, you're not sorting the overall list.  On each iteration your
code: 1) assigns a new empty list to list_simi; 2) processes one of
the pairs; 3) adds the pair to the empty list; and 4) sorts the list.
On the next iteration you then start all over again with a new empty
list, and so when you get to the sorting step you're only sorting one
item each time.  You need to accumulate the list instead of wiping it
out on each iteration, and only sort it after the loop has completed.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 23:31:38 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 20:31:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: wordnet semantic similarity: how to refer to elements of a pair
	in a list? can we sort dictionary according to the value?
References: <2d6d84d4-0f70-4280-96e2-f9fe17d5be8b@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1928.1349632173.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<62e7500b-0d7d-4d5e-8c10-197d1988f364@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <748ab20a-8e54-4732-b61d-272dd9717bb0@q7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 9, 1:13?pm, Token Type <typeto... at gmail.com> wrote:
> yes, thanks all your tips. I did try sorted with itemgetter.
> However, the sorted results are same as follows whether I
> set reverse=True or reverse= False. Isn't it strange? Thanks.

That's because you're sorting each entry individually, not the entire
result. For every key-value pair, you create a new empty list, append
one tuple, and then sort it. The consistent order you're seeing is the
outcome of stepping through the dictionary keys.

This is untested, but it should be closer to what you're after, I
think. First it creates `list_simi` as a generator, then it sorts it.

    import nltk
    from nltk.corpus import wordnet as wn
    from operator import itemgetter

    pairs = {'car':'automobile', 'gem':'jewel', 'journey':'voyage'}

    def find_similarity(word1, word2):
        as_synset = lambda word: wn.synset( str(word) + '.n.01' )
        return as_synset(word1).path_similarity( as_synset(word2) )

    similarity_value = itemgetter(1)

    list_simi = (
        ('%s-%s' % (word1, word2), find_similarity(word1, word2) )
        for word1, word2 in pairs.iteritems()
    )
    list_simi = sorted(list_simi, key=similarity_value, reverse=True)


From typetoken at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 00:16:43 2012
From: typetoken at gmail.com (Token Type)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 21:16:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: wordnet semantic similarity: how to refer to elements of a pair
	in a list? can we sort dictionary according to the value?
In-Reply-To: <748ab20a-8e54-4732-b61d-272dd9717bb0@q7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
References: <2d6d84d4-0f70-4280-96e2-f9fe17d5be8b@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1928.1349632173.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<62e7500b-0d7d-4d5e-8c10-197d1988f364@googlegroups.com>
	<748ab20a-8e54-4732-b61d-272dd9717bb0@q7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4d2a3205-ff2a-45f8-9c54-7ed98193aded@googlegroups.com>

Thanks indeed for all your suggestions. When I try my above codes, what puzzles me is that when the data in the dictionary increase, some data become missing in the sorted result. Quite odd. In the pairs, we have {'journey':'voyage'} but in the sorted result no ('journey-voyage',0.25), which did appear in my first post which was a small scale experiment. I am quite puzzled...

>>> pairs = {'car':'automobile', 'gem':'jewel', 'journey':'voyage','boy':'lad','coast':'shore', 'asylum':'madhouse', 'magician':'wizard', 'midday':'noon', 'furnace':'stove', 'food':'fruit', 'bird':'cock', 'bird':'crane', 'tool':'implement', 'brother':'monk', 'lad':'brother', 'crane':'implement', 'journey':'car', 'monk':'oracle', 'cemetery':'woodland', 'food':'rooster', 'coast':'hill', 'forest':'graveyard', 'shore':'woodland', 'monk':'slave', 'coast':'forest','lad':'wizard', 'chord':'smile', 'glass':'magician', 'rooster':'voyage', 'noon':'string'}
>>> list_simi=[]
>>> for key in pairs:
	word1 = wn.synset(str(key) + '.n.01') 
        word2 = wn.synset(str(pairs[key])+'.n.01') 
        similarity = word1.path_similarity(word2) 
        list_simi.append((key+'-'+pairs[key],similarity))

        
>>> from operator import itemgetter

>>> sorted(list_simi, key=itemgetter(1), reverse=True)
[('midday-noon', 1.0), ('car-automobile', 1.0), ('tool-implement', 0.5), ('boy-lad', 0.3333333333333333), ('lad-wizard', 0.2), ('monk-slave', 0.2), ('shore-woodland', 0.2), ('magician-wizard', 0.16666666666666666), ('brother-monk', 0.125), ('asylum-madhouse', 0.125), ('gem-jewel', 0.125), ('cemetery-woodland', 0.1111111111111111), ('bird-crane', 0.1111111111111111), ('glass-magician', 0.1111111111111111), ('crane-implement', 0.1), ('chord-smile', 0.09090909090909091), ('coast-forest', 0.09090909090909091), ('furnace-stove', 0.07692307692307693), ('forest-graveyard', 0.07142857142857142), ('food-rooster', 0.0625), ('noon-string', 0.058823529411764705), ('journey-car', 0.05), ('rooster-voyage', 0.041666666666666664)]


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 01:44:04 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 22:44:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: wordnet semantic similarity: how to refer to elements of a pair
	in a list? can we sort dictionary according to the value?
References: <2d6d84d4-0f70-4280-96e2-f9fe17d5be8b@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1928.1349632173.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<62e7500b-0d7d-4d5e-8c10-197d1988f364@googlegroups.com>
	<748ab20a-8e54-4732-b61d-272dd9717bb0@q7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<4d2a3205-ff2a-45f8-9c54-7ed98193aded@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ebbf2ca7-0933-4d25-9dc7-74d5fb7f9b67@wz4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 9, 2:16?pm, Token Type <typeto... at gmail.com> wrote:
> When I try my above codes, what puzzles me is that when
> the data in the dictionary increase, some data become
> missing in the sorted result. Quite odd. In the pairs,
> we have {'journey':'voyage'} but in the sorted result no (
> 'journey-voyage',0.25)
>
> >>> pairs = {'car':'automobile', 'gem':'jewel', 'journey':'voyage','boy':'lad','coast':'shore', 'asylum':'madhouse', 'magician':'wizard', 'midday':'noon', 'furnace':'stove', 'food':'fruit', 'bird':'cock', 'bird':'crane', 'tool':'implement', 'brother':'monk', 'lad':'brother', 'crane':'implement', 'journey':'car', 'monk':'oracle', 'cemetery':'woodland', 'food':'rooster', 'coast':'hill', 'forest':'graveyard', 'shore':'woodland', 'monk':'slave', 'coast':'forest','lad':'wizard', 'chord':'smile', 'glass':'magician', 'rooster':'voyage', 'noon':'string'}

Keys are unique in dictionaries. You have two uses of 'journey'; the
second will overwrite the first.

Do you _need_ these items to be a dictionary? Are you doing any look
up? If not, just make it a list of tuples:

   pairs = [ ('car', 'automobile'), ('gem', 'jewel') ...]

Then make your main loop:

   for word1, word2 in pairs:

If you do need a dictionary for other reasons, you might want to try a
dictionary of lists:

    pairs = {
        'car': ['automobile', 'vehicle'],
        'gem': ['jewel'],
    }

    for word1, synonyms in pairs:
        for word2 in synonyms:
            ...


From bob.martin at excite.com  Tue Oct  9 07:07:32 2012
From: bob.martin at excite.com (Bob Martin)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 07:07:32 BST
Subject: Unpaking Tuple
References: <801f0e2c-7d1d-4e91-bec5-78c5e53a70ec@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1973.1349736270.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <adht95F2luqU1@mid.individual.net>

in 682592 20121008 232126 "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com> wrote:
>Thomas Bach wrote:=0D=0A> Hi there,=0D=0A> =0D=0A> On Sat, Oct 06, 2012 at =
>03:08:38PM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> > my_tuple =3D my_=
>tuple[:4]=0D=0A> > a,b,c,d =3D my_tuple if len(my_tuple) =3D=3D 4 else (my_=
>tuple + (None,)*4)[:4]=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> =0D=0A> Are you sure this works as y=
>ou expect? I just stumbled over the following:=0D=0A> =0D=0A> $ python=0D=
>=0A> Python 3=2E2=2E3 (default, Jun 25 2012, 23:10:56)=0D=0A> [GCC 4=2E7=2E=
>1] on linux2=0D=0A> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for mo=
>re information=2E=0D=0A> >>> split =3D ['foo', 'bar']=0D=0A> >>> head, tail=
>=3D split if len(split) =3D=3D 2 else split[0], None=0D=0A> >>> head=0D=0A=
>> ['foo', 'bar']=0D=0A> >>> tail=0D=0A> >>>=0D=0A> =0D=0A> I don't get it! =
>Could someone help me, please? Why is head not 'foo'=0D=0A> and tail not 'b=
>ar'?=0D=0A> =0D=0A> Regards,=0D=0A> 	Thomas=0D=0A> --=0D=0A=0D=0AI think yo=
>u just need to wrap the else in parenthesis so the=0D=0Aelse clause is trea=
>ted as a tuple=2E Without the parenthesis =0D=0AI believe it is grouping th=
>e code like this=2E=0D=0A=0D=0Ahead, tail =3D (split if len(split) =3D=3D 2=
>else split[0] ), None=0D=0A=0D=0AYou want:=0D=0Ahead, tail =3D split if le=
>n(split) =3D=3D 2 else (split[0], None )=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ARamit=0D=0AThis e=
>mail is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and=0D=0Aconditio=
>ns including on offers for the purchase or sale of=0D=0Asecurities, accurac=
>y and completeness of information, viruses,=0D=0Aconfidentiality, legal pri=
>vilege, and legal entity disclaimers,=0D=0Aavailable at http://www=2Ejpmorg=
>an=2Ecom/pages/disclosures/email=2E

How does one unpack this post?  ;-)


From d at davea.name  Tue Oct  9 02:29:09 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 02:29:09 -0400
Subject: Unpaking Tuple
In-Reply-To: <adht95F2luqU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <801f0e2c-7d1d-4e91-bec5-78c5e53a70ec@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1973.1349736270.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<adht95F2luqU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <5073C435.1010700@davea.name>

On 10/09/2012 02:07 AM, Bob Martin wrote:
> in 682592 20121008 232126 "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com> wrote:
>> Thomas Bach wrote:=0D=0A> Hi there,=0D=0A> =0D=0A> On Sat, Oct 06, 2012 at =
>> 03:08:38PM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> > my_tuple =3D my_=
>> tuple[:4]=0D=0A> > a,b,c,d =3D my_tuple if len(my_tuple) =3D=3D 4 else (my_=
>> <SNIP> 
>> y and completeness of information, viruses,=0D=0Aconfidentiality, legal pri=
>> vilege, and legal entity disclaimers,=0D=0Aavailable at http://www=2Ejpmorg=
>> an=2Ecom/pages/disclosures/email=2E
> How does one unpack this post?  ;-)

Since that's not the way it arrived here, i have to ask, how do you get
these posts?  Are you subscribed to individual messages by email via
python.org?  or are you using google-groups or some other indirection?

In any reasonable mail program, you can see the source of a message. 
Most of the troubles i've seen here have been caused by people trying to
send html mail to a text-based mailing list.  But in the case you quote,
the original message came here as text/plain, and well formatted.

-- 

DaveA



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 03:06:13 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 18:06:13 +1100
Subject: [Python-ideas] Make "is" checks on non-singleton literals errors
In-Reply-To: <CAP7+vJJkcHXN+Jf2COuTOvj4NVkrNG6f9W+dwSW89_i4DRcEoQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEBZo3PhCXURW1FWpmSQYpUj7DrquXfjuF7xztFHFd4TymNjsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAP7+vJJRhp8Nm+LJrqmo1aR92_rNRf2T-Jm3+Rt9kiCrp0QNMQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121009020327.GB27445@ando>
	<CAP7+vJJkcHXN+Jf2COuTOvj4NVkrNG6f9W+dwSW89_i4DRcEoQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqgkJDE+10dwAoraWHRRBADmVExLb0inU=zfSkGdaiGiQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
> Maybe we should do something more drastic and always create a new,
> unique constant whenever a literal occurs as an argument of 'is' or
> 'is not'? Then such code would never work, leading people to examine
> their code more closely. I betcha we have people who could change the
> bytecode compiler easily enough to do that. (I'm not seriously
> proposing this, except as a threat of what we could do if the
> SyntaxWarning is rejected. :-)

That wouldn't guarantee that the code would never work, merely that
the 'is' checks would be never true. Dangerous if the condition is a
guard for an unusual condition. A unit test could of course catch it,
but that assumes that everyone who writes "if x is 0" has tests
probing both branches of that check...

ChrisA


From jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi  Tue Oct  9 03:22:26 2012
From: jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: 09 Oct 2012 10:22:26 +0300
Subject: Unpaking Tuple
References: <801f0e2c-7d1d-4e91-bec5-78c5e53a70ec@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1973.1349736270.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<adht95F2luqU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.1982.1349764176.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qotr4p8cdot.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>

Dave Angel writes:

> On 10/09/2012 02:07 AM, Bob Martin wrote:
> > in 682592 20121008 232126 "Prasad, Ramit" wrote:
[snip mess]
> > How does one unpack this post?  ;-)
> 
> Since that's not the way it arrived here, i have to ask, how do you
> get these posts?  Are you subscribed to individual messages by email
> via python.org?  or are you using google-groups or some other
> indirection?
> 
> In any reasonable mail program, you can see the source of a message.
> Most of the troubles i've seen here have been caused by people
> trying to send html mail to a text-based mailing list.  But in the
> case you quote, the original message came here as text/plain, and
> well formatted.

I see a carriage return rendered as ^M at the end of every line from
Prasad's messages. Other than that, they are well-formatted plain text
for me, too.

I guess Prasad's system sends \r\n instead of \n\r (the DOS line-end)
and \r\n gets interpreted as a stray \r followed by end-of-line.


From michele.cecere at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 03:37:50 2012
From: michele.cecere at gmail.com (mikcec82)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 00:37:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Blue Screen Python
In-Reply-To: <7c8701cc-1bc5-46ee-a83a-3e9a038ceada@googlegroups.com>
References: <7c8701cc-1bc5-46ee-a83a-3e9a038ceada@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <61bb361b-09d6-4d6d-b01e-758658574552@googlegroups.com>

Il giorno venerd? 21 settembre 2012 16:04:48 UTC+2, mikcec82 ha scritto:
> Hallo to all,
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using Python 2.7.3 with Windows 7 @ 64 bit
> 
> and an Intel Core i3 -2350M CPU @2.30GHz 2.3GHz.
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes, when I'm programming in Python on my screen compare this blue screen:
> 
> http://imageshack.us/a/img228/8352/48579647436249494527021.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> Can you help on what is the issue, and how I can solve it?
> 
> 
> 
> If you need more info I'm available.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you so much,
> 
> Michele

Hi to all,
and thanks for your answers.

I'm not using a buggy library.
Yesterday I have another BSOD...but I was using only "OS" library.

I have also tested memory using memtest, but there wasn't errors.

In my script I open and close an html (in a FOR cycle); could be this the problem?

Or is it possible that Python 2.7 is not compatible with Win7?

Thank you very much to you.

Have a good day,
Michele


From Mushabbar.Hussain at honeywell.com  Tue Oct  9 04:35:18 2012
From: Mushabbar.Hussain at honeywell.com (Hussain, Mushabbar)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 08:35:18 +0000
Subject: FW: question Python custome events
Message-ID: <FE568A5D442B314AA200D599AB6090F508F9134B@IE1AEX3001.global.ds.honeywell.com>


Hi,
Is it possible to define an Event which should fire when a value of a variable changes? Something like below

self.Bind(wx.EVT_ON_VAL_CHANGE, variable_to_watch, self.Callback)

I need a Text ctrl UI which continuously changes values based on external data changes. Unfortunately I could not find events in Python which can be triggered when a variable value changes?  Please let me know how this can be achieved?

Thanks,
Hussain
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From phihag at phihag.de  Tue Oct  9 06:32:06 2012
From: phihag at phihag.de (Philipp Hagemeister)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 12:32:06 +0200
Subject: Blue Screen Python
In-Reply-To: <61bb361b-09d6-4d6d-b01e-758658574552@googlegroups.com>
References: <7c8701cc-1bc5-46ee-a83a-3e9a038ceada@googlegroups.com>
	<61bb361b-09d6-4d6d-b01e-758658574552@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5073FD26.8080705@phihag.de>

On 10/09/2012 09:37 AM, mikcec82 wrote:
> In my script I open and close an html (in a FOR cycle); could be this the problem?
Unless you're running your Python script as a kernel driver (and you
can't do that accidentally), there is no way that your user-space
program should cause a bluescreen. This is an error in Windows (or one
of the drivers), not in Python or your program.

What you can do is insert your Windows DVD, boot from it, and click Repair.

> Or is it possible that Python 2.7 is not compatible with Win7?
No, even if a user-space program could legitimately cause a bluescreen,
Python 2.7 still works fine one thousands of Win7 machines.

Cheers,

Philipp

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From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Oct  9 06:48:58 2012
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 05:48:58 -0500
Subject: mangled messages (was: Unpaking Tuple)
In-Reply-To: <qotr4p8cdot.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>
References: <801f0e2c-7d1d-4e91-bec5-78c5e53a70ec@googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1973.1349736270.27098.python-list@python.org>	<adht95F2luqU1@mid.individual.net>	<mailman.1982.1349764176.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<qotr4p8cdot.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <5074011A.4020102@tim.thechases.com>

On 10/09/12 02:22, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
>>> in 682592 20121008 232126 "Prasad, Ramit" wrote:
> [snip mess]
>>> How does one unpack this post?  ;-)
>>
>> Since that's not the way it arrived here, i have to ask, how do you
>> get these posts?
> 
> I see a carriage return rendered as ^M at the end of every line from
> Prasad's messages. Other than that, they are well-formatted plain text
> for me, too.
> 
> I guess Prasad's system sends \r\n instead of \n\r (the DOS line-end)
> and \r\n gets interpreted as a stray \r followed by end-of-line.

Prasad's system is correctly sending the "right" order (DOS
line-ends are CR+LF = \r\n, not the other way around).  However, it
might be that there is no CR+LF on the last line, or that one line
is missing the CR, so your viewer heuristic (vim does this) thinks
it has Unix NL-only line-endings and shows the ^M on all the lines
that have the CR.  All for one stray line without.

Prasad's email came through cleanly here (gmane + Thunderbird).

-tkc






From soto_andres at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  9 07:06:13 2012
From: soto_andres at yahoo.com (Andres Soto)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 04:06:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pydelicious documentation
Message-ID: <1349780773.63479.YahooMailNeo@web122001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Does somebody know where I can get the documentation for pydelicious?
The documentation links ("For code documentation see?doc/pydelicious?or?doc/dlcs.py.") in http://packages.python.org/pydelicious/README.html#id3?
gave me?
404 Not Found
________________________________

nginx/1.1.19
?
Prof. Dr.?Andr?s Soto
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From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Oct  9 07:29:16 2012
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 9 Oct 2012 11:29:16 GMT
Subject: + in regular expression
References: <506EFC44.40508@cs.wisc.edu>
	<mailman.1884.1349480266.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <XnsA0E698D1EA28duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:

>| Because "\s{6}+" 
>| has other meanings in different regex syntaxes and the designers didn't 
>| want confusion?
> 
> I think Python REs are supposed to be Perl compatible; ISTR an opening
> sentence to that effect...
> 
I don't know the full history of how regex engines evolved, but I suspect 
at least part of the answer is that the decisions the Perl developers made 
influenced the other implementations.

Perl's quantifiers allow both '?' and '+' as modifiers on the standard 
quantifiers so clearly you cannot stack those particular quantifiers in 
Perl, therefore quantifiers in general are unstackable.

The only grammars I can find online for regular expressions split out the 
elements and quantifiers the way I did in my previous post. Python's regex 
parser (and I would guess also most of the others in existence) tend more 
to the spaghetti code than following a grammar (_parse is a 238 line 
function). So I think it really is just trying to match existing regular 
expression parsers and any possible grammar is an excuse for why it should 
be the way it is rather than an explanation.

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Oct  9 07:39:00 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Oct 2012 11:39:00 GMT
Subject: To get the accurate value of 1 - 0.999999999999999 ,how to
	implement the python algorithm =?iso-2022-kr?q?=0E#=3F=0F?=
References: <91ff9b33-c212-4be0-8ed0-1f6b16f56865@googlegroups.com>
	<5072E7CC.2070405@davea.name>
	<mailman.1953.1349708407.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <50740cd4$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 02:00:04 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 1:48 AM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:
>> import decimal
>> a = decimal.Decimal(4.3)
>> print(a)
>>
>> 5.0999999999999996447286321199499070644378662109375
> 
> Ah, the delights of copy-paste :)
> 
>> The Decimal class has the disadvantage that it's tons slower on any
>> modern machine I know of...
> 
> Isn't it true, though, that Python 3.3 has a completely new
> implementation of decimal that largely removes this disadvantage?

Yes. It's blazingly fast: up to 120 times faster than the pure Python 
version, and within an order of magnitude of the speed of binary floats:

[steve at ando ~]$ python3.3 -m timeit -s "x, y = 1001.0, 978.0" 
> "x+y-(x/y)**4"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.509 usec per loop

[steve at ando ~]$ python3.3 -m timeit -s "from decimal import Decimal" 
> -s "x, y = Decimal(1001), Decimal(978)" "x+y-(x/y)**4"
100000 loops, best of 3: 3.58 usec per loop


Without hardware support, Decimal will probably never be quite as fast as 
binary floats, but its fast enough for all but the most demanding needs.



-- 
Steven


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Oct  9 07:40:14 2012
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 9 Oct 2012 11:40:14 GMT
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <XnsA0E780DF73B31duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

mooremathewl at gmail.com wrote:

> What's the best way to accomplish this?  Am I over-complicating it? 
> My gut feeling is there is a better way than the following: 
> 
>>>> import itertools
>>>> x = [1, 2, 3]
>>>> y = list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(('insertme', x[i]) for i in
>>>> range(len(x)))) y
> ['insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3]
> 
> I appreciate any and all feedback.
> 

Given the myriad of proposed solutions, I'm surprised nobody has suggested 
good old list slicing:

>>> x = [1,2,3]
>>> y = ['insertme']*(2*len(x))
>>> y[1::2] = x
>>> y
['insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3]

-- 
Duncan Booth


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Oct  9 07:40:14 2012
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 9 Oct 2012 11:40:14 GMT
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <XnsA0E780DF73B31duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

mooremathewl at gmail.com wrote:

> What's the best way to accomplish this?  Am I over-complicating it? 
> My gut feeling is there is a better way than the following: 
> 
>>>> import itertools
>>>> x = [1, 2, 3]
>>>> y = list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(('insertme', x[i]) for i in
>>>> range(len(x)))) y
> ['insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3]
> 
> I appreciate any and all feedback.
> 

Given the myriad of proposed solutions, I'm surprised nobody has suggested 
good old list slicing:

>>> x = [1,2,3]
>>> y = ['insertme']*(2*len(x))
>>> y[1::2] = x
>>> y
['insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3]

-- 
Duncan Booth


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 07:47:58 2012
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 22:47:58 +1100
Subject: pydelicious documentation
In-Reply-To: <1349780773.63479.YahooMailNeo@web122001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1349780773.63479.YahooMailNeo@web122001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGeFAGNV0j8+-5iDfawBxF+VKsUPYLvev6EYhJbzmS_+BQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Professor Soto,

Not sure what's going on with their servers', but I was able to find
the documentation on their repo:

https://pydelicious.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/htmlref/index.html
https://pydelicious.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/htmlref/HACKING.html
https://pydelicious.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/htmlref/dlcs.html
https://pydelicious.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/htmlref/pydelicious.html

Just save the files locally then open them in your browser.

All the best,

Alec Taylor

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 10:06 PM, Andres Soto <soto_andres at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Does somebody know where I can get the documentation for pydelicious?
> The documentation links ("For code documentation see doc/pydelicious or
> doc/dlcs.py.") in http://packages.python.org/pydelicious/README.html#id3
> gave me
>
> 404 Not Found
>
> ________________________________
> nginx/1.1.19
>
> Prof. Dr. Andr?s Soto
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 07:52:22 2012
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 22:52:22 +1100
Subject: pydelicious documentation
In-Reply-To: <CAO+9iGeFAGNV0j8+-5iDfawBxF+VKsUPYLvev6EYhJbzmS_+BQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1349780773.63479.YahooMailNeo@web122001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<CAO+9iGeFAGNV0j8+-5iDfawBxF+VKsUPYLvev6EYhJbzmS_+BQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGeC15W9DRXztU235GOuVqsoEYmdRi2Pj9d0nyygNztEQg@mail.gmail.com>

Actually it seems this project has been official abandoned.

Unofficially use this, was updated only a month ago:
https://github.com/mgan59/python-pinboard

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 10:47 PM, Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Professor Soto,
>
> Not sure what's going on with their servers', but I was able to find
> the documentation on their repo:
>
> https://pydelicious.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/htmlref/index.html
> https://pydelicious.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/htmlref/HACKING.html
> https://pydelicious.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/htmlref/dlcs.html
> https://pydelicious.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/htmlref/pydelicious.html
>
> Just save the files locally then open them in your browser.
>
> All the best,
>
> Alec Taylor
>
> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 10:06 PM, Andres Soto <soto_andres at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Does somebody know where I can get the documentation for pydelicious?
>> The documentation links ("For code documentation see doc/pydelicious or
>> doc/dlcs.py.") in http://packages.python.org/pydelicious/README.html#id3
>> gave me
>>
>> 404 Not Found
>>
>> ________________________________
>> nginx/1.1.19
>>
>> Prof. Dr. Andr?s Soto
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>


From argbsk at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 07:59:49 2012
From: argbsk at gmail.com (argbsk at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 04:59:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Creating a dictionary
Message-ID: <c9149a5f-fe94-4e36-8e8f-28d93dea74c6@googlegroups.com>

below is the text file i have How to create Facility as a key and then assign multiple values to it

FACILITY : BACKUP
FAILED BACKUP_BEFORE
FAILED BACKUP_INTERCHANGE
Total : 34
Passed : 32
Failed : 2
Not Run : 0

FACILITY : CDU
Total : 9
Passed : 9
Failed : 0


for example Facility BACKUP is a key & its values are Total Passed, Failed Not Run and Facility CDU as a key & its values Total:9,Passed:9,Failed:0 etc...


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Oct  9 08:01:15 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Oct 2012 12:01:15 GMT
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1976.1349747963.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-323E36.22065008102012@news.panix.com>
	<d0a5ccce-4a18-41e2-b804-795891db895b@lb2g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5074120b$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 19:34:26 -0700, rusi wrote:

> How about a 2-paren version?
> 
>>>> x = [1,2,3]
>>>> reduce(operator.add,  [['insert', a] for a in x])
> ['insert', 1, 'insert', 2, 'insert', 3]

That works, but all those list additions are going to be slow. It will be 
an O(N**2) algorithm.


If you're going to be frequently interleaving sequences, a helper 
function is a good solution. Here's my muxer:

def mux(*iterables):
    """Muxer which yields items interleaved from each iterator or
    sequence argument, stopping when the first one is exhausted.

    >>> list( mux([1,2,3], range(10, 15), "ABCD") )
    [1, 10, 'A', 2, 11, 'B', 3, 12, 'C']
    """
    for i in itertools.izip(*iterables):  # in Python 3 use builtin zip
        for item in i:
            yield item


Then call it like this:

py> list(mux(itertools.repeat("insert me"), range(5)))
['insert me', 0, 'insert me', 1, 'insert me', 2, 'insert me', 3, 'insert 
me', 4]



-- 
Steven


From jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi  Tue Oct  9 08:05:42 2012
From: jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: 09 Oct 2012 15:05:42 +0300
Subject: mangled messages (was: Unpaking Tuple)
References: <801f0e2c-7d1d-4e91-bec5-78c5e53a70ec@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1973.1349736270.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<adht95F2luqU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.1982.1349764176.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<qotr4p8cdot.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>
	<mailman.1987.1349780698.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qotpq4r7svd.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>

Tim Chase writes:
> On 10/09/12 02:22, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> >>> in 682592 20121008 232126 "Prasad, Ramit" wrote:
> > [snip mess]
> >>> How does one unpack this post?  ;-)
> >>
> >> Since that's not the way it arrived here, i have to ask, how do you
> >> get these posts?
> > 
> > I see a carriage return rendered as ^M at the end of every line from
> > Prasad's messages. Other than that, they are well-formatted plain text
> > for me, too.
> > 
> > I guess Prasad's system sends \r\n instead of \n\r (the DOS line-end)
> > and \r\n gets interpreted as a stray \r followed by end-of-line.
> 
> Prasad's system is correctly sending the "right" order (DOS
> line-ends are CR+LF = \r\n, not the other way around).

You are right. I managed to confuse myself about the order of the two
characters while staring on a source that says the opposite of what I
said (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newline).

Doubly sorry about the noise (being both off-topic and incorrect).

> However, it might be that there is no CR+LF on the last line, or
> that one line is missing the CR, so your viewer heuristic (vim does
> this) thinks it has Unix NL-only line-endings and shows the ^M on
> all the lines that have the CR.  All for one stray line without.

That doesn't sound robust. The problem is still quite rare for me.

> Prasad's email came through cleanly here (gmane + Thunderbird).

I'm on Gnus in Emacs, probably a few years out of date.


From michele.cecere at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 08:10:19 2012
From: michele.cecere at gmail.com (mikcec82)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 05:10:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Blue Screen Python
In-Reply-To: <7c8701cc-1bc5-46ee-a83a-3e9a038ceada@googlegroups.com>
References: <7c8701cc-1bc5-46ee-a83a-3e9a038ceada@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a2987999-89de-4519-a7ae-d07427dd395b@googlegroups.com>

Il giorno venerd? 21 settembre 2012 16:04:48 UTC+2, mikcec82 ha scritto:
> Hallo to all,
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using Python 2.7.3 with Windows 7 @ 64 bit
> 
> and an Intel Core i3 -2350M CPU @2.30GHz 2.3GHz.
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes, when I'm programming in Python on my screen compare this blue screen:
> 
> http://imageshack.us/a/img228/8352/48579647436249494527021.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> Can you help on what is the issue, and how I can solve it?
> 
> 
> 
> If you need more info I'm available.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you so much,
> 
> Michele

Thank you so much Philipp.
Now I am at work and I can't insert Windows DVD, but as soon as possible I'll done as you said and report you if the problem is solved or not.

Best regards,
Michele


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct  9 08:55:20 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 14:55:20 +0200
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
	<XnsA0E780DF73B31duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <k516r5$2pd$1@ger.gmane.org>

Duncan Booth wrote:

> mooremathewl at gmail.com wrote:
> 
>> What's the best way to accomplish this?  Am I over-complicating it?
>> My gut feeling is there is a better way than the following:
>> 
>>>>> import itertools
>>>>> x = [1, 2, 3]
>>>>> y = list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(('insertme', x[i]) for i in
>>>>> range(len(x)))) y
>> ['insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3]
>> 
>> I appreciate any and all feedback.
>> 
> 
> Given the myriad of proposed solutions, I'm surprised nobody has suggested
> good old list slicing:

My post on gmane 

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/718940/focus=718947

apparently didn't make it through to the list.

>>>> x = [1,2,3]
>>>> y = ['insertme']*(2*len(x))
>>>> y[1::2] = x
>>>> y
> ['insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3]

An advantage of this approach -- it is usually much faster.



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Oct  9 09:00:46 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Oct 2012 13:00:46 GMT
Subject: Creating a dictionary
References: <c9149a5f-fe94-4e36-8e8f-28d93dea74c6@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50741ffe$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 04:59:49 -0700, argbsk wrote:

> below is the text file i have How to create Facility as a key and then
> assign multiple values to it

To use Facility as a key in a dict:

d = {}
d['Facility'] = 'ham'

Note that keys are case-sensitive, so that 'Facility', 'facility', 
'FACILITY' and 'FaCiLiTy' are all different.

To have multiple values assigned to a key, use a list:

d['Facility'] = ['ham', 'spam', 'cheese', 'eggs']
d['Facility'].append('tomato')



-- 
Steven


From roy at panix.com  Tue Oct  9 09:08:02 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 09:08:02 -0400
Subject: Creating a dictionary
References: <c9149a5f-fe94-4e36-8e8f-28d93dea74c6@googlegroups.com>
	<50741ffe$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <roy-347A5A.09080109102012@news.panix.com>

In article <50741ffe$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d at news.astraweb.com>,
 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:

> On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 04:59:49 -0700, argbsk wrote:
> 
> > below is the text file i have How to create Facility as a key and then
> > assign multiple values to it
> 
> To use Facility as a key in a dict:
> 
> d = {}
> d['Facility'] = 'ham'
> 
> Note that keys are case-sensitive, so that 'Facility', 'facility', 
> 'FACILITY' and 'FaCiLiTy' are all different.
> 
> To have multiple values assigned to a key, use a list:
> 
> d['Facility'] = ['ham', 'spam', 'cheese', 'eggs']
> d['Facility'].append('tomato')

I think what he really wants to end up with is a dictionary of 
dictionaries:

{'BACKUP': {'Total' : 34,
         'Passed' : 32,
         'Failed' : 2,
         'Not Run' : 0
      },
 'CDU': {....}
}

Or, somewhat more work, but a richer solution, create a FacilityData 
class, whose attributes are total, passed, failed, not_run, etc, and 
have instances of FacilityData be the values.


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Tue Oct  9 09:11:25 2012
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 15:11:25 +0200
Subject: Creating a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <c9149a5f-fe94-4e36-8e8f-28d93dea74c6@googlegroups.com>
References: <c9149a5f-fe94-4e36-8e8f-28d93dea74c6@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <uckdk9-29v.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 09.10.2012 13:59, schrieb argbsk at gmail.com:
> below is the text file i have How to create Facility as a key and then assign multiple values to it

The value part of a dict element can be any kind of object, like e.g. a 
tuple, namedtuple or even a dict.


Uli



From real-not-anti-spam-address at apple-juice.co.uk  Tue Oct  9 09:24:29 2012
From: real-not-anti-spam-address at apple-juice.co.uk (D.M. Procida)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 14:24:29 +0100
Subject: Private methods
Message-ID: <1krpbz9.1wge3j11123k2vN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>

What exactly is the point of a private method? Why or when would I want
to use one?

Daniele


From andriy.kornatskyy at live.com  Tue Oct  9 09:44:19 2012
From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com (Andriy Kornatskyy)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 16:44:19 +0300
Subject: Fastest web framework
In-Reply-To: <DUB117-W80EE2285B5E415AA14B5B9919F0@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB117-W80EE2285B5E415AA14B5B9919F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <DUB117-W9212B9611585606344918B918F0@phx.gbl>


How fast python web framework process routing (URL dispatch)?

Here is a benchmark for various web frameworks (bottle, django, flask, pyramid, tornado and wheezy.web) running the following routing: static, dynamic, SEO and missing... with a trivial 'hello world' application (all routes are pointing to the same handler).

http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/10/python-web-routing-benchmark.html

Benchmark is executed in isolated environment using CPython 2.7.

Comments or suggestions are welcome.

Thanks.

Andriy Kornatskyy

> From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Fastest web framework
> Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 12:19:16 +0300
> 
> 
> I have run recently a benchmark of a trivial 'hello world' application for various python web frameworks (bottle,?django, flask, pyramid, web.py, wheezy.web) hosted in uWSGI/cpython2.7 and gunicorn/pypy1.9... you might find it interesting:
> 
> http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/09/python-fastest-web-framework.html
> 
> Comments or suggestions are welcome.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Andriy Kornatskyy
>  		 	   		  
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
 		 	   		  

From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Oct  9 09:51:37 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 14:51:37 +0100
Subject: Private methods
In-Reply-To: <1krpbz9.1wge3j11123k2vN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
References: <1krpbz9.1wge3j11123k2vN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
Message-ID: <k519vl$ig$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 09/10/2012 14:24, D.M. Procida wrote:
> What exactly is the point of a private method? Why or when would I want
> to use one?
>
> Daniele
>

Hardly a Python question but using a search engine could have got you 
here, and rather faster :) 
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2620699/why-private-methods-in-the-object-oriented

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From real-not-anti-spam-address at apple-juice.co.uk  Tue Oct  9 09:59:27 2012
From: real-not-anti-spam-address at apple-juice.co.uk (D.M. Procida)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 14:59:27 +0100
Subject: Private methods
References: <1krpbz9.1wge3j11123k2vN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<mailman.1994.1349790529.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1krpdak.u0qy9e1a4knspN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>

Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On 09/10/2012 14:24, D.M. Procida wrote:
> > What exactly is the point of a private method? Why or when would I want
> > to use one?
> >
> > Daniele
> >
> 
> Hardly a Python question but using a search engine could have got you
> here, and rather faster :) 
>
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2620699/why-private-methods-in-the-ob
ject-oriented

Thanks. Sometimes I prefer to talk to real people on Usenet than do web
searches. Just my preference.

Anyway, one of the answers on that page explains that public methods are
interfaces to a class, that other things might rely on, and private ones
are for its own internal logic, that other things don't need to care
about.

In Python, using an underscore is simply a convention to note that a
method is private - it doesn't actually hide it from other things -
correct?

Daniele


From jldunn2000 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 10:02:22 2012
From: jldunn2000 at gmail.com (loial)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 07:02:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: string contains and special characters
Message-ID: <a6a8b018-f7d1-43ae-bee8-a2f2028866f1@googlegroups.com>

I am trying to match a string that containing the "<" and ">" characters, using the string contains function, but it never seems to find the lines containing the string

e.g if mystring.contains("<TAG>") :

Do I need to escape the characters...and if so how?



From mooremathewl at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 10:03:54 2012
From: mooremathewl at gmail.com (mooremathewl at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 07:03:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
In-Reply-To: <roy-323E36.22065008102012@news.panix.com>
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1976.1349747963.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-323E36.22065008102012@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <53ed3206-456c-4527-9343-48e9a39b690a@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 8, 2012 10:06:50 PM UTC-4, Roy Smith wrote:
> In article <mailman.1976.1349747963.27098.python-list at python.org>,
> 

(big snip)

> 
> 
> > y = list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(('insertme', x[i]) for i in range(len(x))))
> 
> 
> 
> A statement ending in four close parens is usually going to be pretty 
> 
> difficult to figure out.  This is one where I had to pull out my pencil 
> 
> and start pairing them off manually to figure out how to parse it.


Fair enough.  I admit I was looking for a tricky one-liner, which rarely leads to good code...I should know better.

Thanks for all the feedback from everyone.  It's amazing how much Python one can learn just asking about a small section of code!


From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 10:08:20 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 07:08:20 -0700
Subject: Private methods
In-Reply-To: <1krpdak.u0qy9e1a4knspN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
References: <1krpbz9.1wge3j11123k2vN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<mailman.1994.1349790529.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1krpdak.u0qy9e1a4knspN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
Message-ID: <50742FD4.8030007@gmail.com>

On 12-10-09 06:59 AM, D.M. Procida wrote:
> In Python, using an underscore is simply a convention to note that a
> method is private - it doesn't actually hide it from other things -
> correct?
>
> Daniele
>

A single underscore semantically means private. A double underscore will 
name mangle the function such that it's only accessible strictly by name 
through the class that it's define in. Note that you *can* still access 
it if you understand how name mangling works. Nothing in Python is truly 
private.

-- 
Demian Brecht
@demianbrecht
http://demianbrecht.github.com


From agonh at freenet.de  Tue Oct  9 10:10:40 2012
From: agonh at freenet.de (Agon Hajdari)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 16:10:40 +0200
Subject: string contains and special characters
In-Reply-To: <a6a8b018-f7d1-43ae-bee8-a2f2028866f1@googlegroups.com>
References: <a6a8b018-f7d1-43ae-bee8-a2f2028866f1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50743060.1040308@freenet.de>

On 10/09/2012 04:02 PM, loial wrote:
> I am trying to match a string that containing the "<" and ">" characters, using the string contains function, but it never seems to find the lines containing the string
> 
> e.g if mystring.contains("<TAG>") :
> 
> Do I need to escape the characters...and if so how?
> 
if '<TAG>' in yourstring:
	# your code

--
Agon Hajdari


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Oct  9 10:11:26 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 14:11:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Unpaking Tuple
References: <801f0e2c-7d1d-4e91-bec5-78c5e53a70ec@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1973.1349736270.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<adht95F2luqU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <k51bae$4qb$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-09, Bob Martin <bob.martin at excite.com> wrote:
> in 682592 20121008 232126 "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com> wrote:
>>Thomas Bach wrote:=0D=0A> Hi there,=0D=0A> =0D=0A> On Sat, Oct 06, 2012 at =
>>03:08:38PM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> > my_tuple =3D my_=
>>tuple[:4]=0D=0A> > a,b,c,d =3D my_tuple if len(my_tuple) =3D=3D 4 else (my_=
>
> How does one unpack this post?  ;-)

Yea, my newsreader doesn't like those posts either -- though they're
not as bad as what yours displays. Mine just shows "^M" strings all
at the end of every line.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! BARBARA STANWYCK makes
                                  at               me nervous!!
                              gmail.com            


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 10:12:47 2012
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 15:12:47 +0100
Subject: Private methods
In-Reply-To: <1krpdak.u0qy9e1a4knspN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
References: <1krpbz9.1wge3j11123k2vN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<mailman.1994.1349790529.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1krpdak.u0qy9e1a4knspN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
Message-ID: <k51bct$d8h$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/9/12 2:59 PM, D.M. Procida wrote:
> Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 09/10/2012 14:24, D.M. Procida wrote:
>>> What exactly is the point of a private method? Why or when would I want
>>> to use one?
>>>
>>> Daniele
>>>
>>
>> Hardly a Python question but using a search engine could have got you
>> here, and rather faster :)
>>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2620699/why-private-methods-in-the-ob
> ject-oriented
>
> Thanks. Sometimes I prefer to talk to real people on Usenet than do web
> searches. Just my preference.

That's understandable, but the real people on Usenet who will answer your 
questions usually prefer that you do a web search first, for a variety of reasons.

   http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#before

> Anyway, one of the answers on that page explains that public methods are
> interfaces to a class, that other things might rely on, and private ones
> are for its own internal logic, that other things don't need to care
> about.
>
> In Python, using an underscore is simply a convention to note that a
> method is private - it doesn't actually hide it from other things -
> correct?

This is correct.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Oct  9 10:21:36 2012
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 09:21:36 -0500
Subject: Private methods
In-Reply-To: <1krpdak.u0qy9e1a4knspN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
References: <1krpbz9.1wge3j11123k2vN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>	<mailman.1994.1349790529.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1krpdak.u0qy9e1a4knspN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
Message-ID: <507432F0.2030205@tim.thechases.com>

On 10/09/12 08:59, D.M. Procida wrote:
>> On 09/10/2012 14:24, D.M. Procida wrote:
>>> What exactly is the point of a private method? Why or when would I want
>>> to use one?
> 
> In Python, using an underscore is simply a convention to note that a
> method is private - it doesn't actually hide it from other things -
> correct?

Correct.  You can read the leading underscore as "if you use this,
don't come crying if it breaks on you in a future version because we
changed an internal implementation. We told you so."

-tkc





From d at davea.name  Tue Oct  9 10:23:42 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 10:23:42 -0400
Subject: string contains and special characters
In-Reply-To: <a6a8b018-f7d1-43ae-bee8-a2f2028866f1@googlegroups.com>
References: <a6a8b018-f7d1-43ae-bee8-a2f2028866f1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5074336E.9050404@davea.name>

On 10/09/2012 10:02 AM, loial wrote:
> I am trying to match a string that containing the "<" and ">" characters, using the string contains function, but it never seems to find the lines containing the string
>
> e.g if mystring.contains("<TAG>") :
>
> Do I need to escape the characters...and if so how?
>

What language are you trying to use, and what version of that language? 
In all the Python versions I know of, that line would simply be a syntax
error.  There's no "contains" method in the str class, use the 'in' keyword.

    if  "<TAG>' in mystring:

No need to escape any ASCII characters except backslash.

-- 

DaveA



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Oct  9 10:26:15 2012
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 09:26:15 -0500
Subject: mangled messages
In-Reply-To: <qotpq4r7svd.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>
References: <801f0e2c-7d1d-4e91-bec5-78c5e53a70ec@googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1973.1349736270.27098.python-list@python.org>	<adht95F2luqU1@mid.individual.net>	<mailman.1982.1349764176.27098.python-list@python.org>	<qotr4p8cdot.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>	<mailman.1987.1349780698.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<qotpq4r7svd.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <50743407.6030402@tim.thechases.com>

On 10/09/12 07:05, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> Tim Chase writes:
>> However, it might be that there is no CR+LF on the last line,
>> or that one line is missing the CR, so your viewer heuristic
>> (vim does this) thinks it has Unix NL-only line-endings and
>> shows the ^M on all the lines that have the CR.  All for one
>> stray line without.
> 
> That doesn't sound robust. The problem is still quite rare for
> me.

Vim's heuristic is that, if *all* the lines end in CR+LF, it's a
DOS-formatted file; otherwise it's a Unix-style (LF) file with
spurious CRs in it (they just happen to come at the end of
most-but-not-all lines).  It works quite robustly, since writing the
file back out will reliably put the CRs back where they were and
leave the non-CR'ed lines as they were with only LF.  Vim makes it
pretty easy to remove the spurious CRs and then change the
file-format from Unix to DOS line-endings and write it out if that's
what you want[1].

-tkc


[1]
:%s/\r$
:set ff=dos
:w

which (1) removes the spurious/inconsistent CRs, (2) tells vim that
newlines should be written as CR+LF when writing and (3) writes the
file back out to disk.


From MDiPierro at cs.depaul.edu  Tue Oct  9 10:27:30 2012
From: MDiPierro at cs.depaul.edu (DiPierro, Massimo)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 14:27:30 +0000
Subject: Call for Papers: PyHPC 2012
In-Reply-To: <64886ABF09B1924997D70320E02F7DDB0F2DB4E5@DLREXMBX01.intra.dlr.de>
References: <64886ABF09B1924997D70320E02F7DDB0F2DB4E5@DLREXMBX01.intra.dlr.de>
Message-ID: <C5E7340E1DBB3542BF15D9EFF6BB1A3208E1461C@EX2K10MBX.cti.depaul.edu>

What is my account info? Sorry I cannot find the info.

________________________________________
From: python-announce-list-bounces+mdipierro=cs.depaul.edu at python.org [python-announce-list-bounces+mdipierro=cs.depaul.edu at python.org] on behalf of Andreas.Schreiber at dlr.de [Andreas.Schreiber at dlr.de]
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 4:45 PM
To: conferences at python.org; python-announce-list at python.org; python-hpc at python.org
Cc: python-users at uni-koeln.de; software-technology at dlr.de
Subject: Call for Papers: PyHPC 2012

===============
Call for Papers
===============

Workshop Python for High Performance and Scientific Computing (PyHPC 2012)


November 16, 2012, Salt Lake City, USA

in conjunction with the International Conference for High Performance
Computing, Networking, Storage and Analysis (SC12)

http://bit.ly/PyHPC2012

Introduction
------------
Python is a high-level programming language with a growing community
in academia and industry. It is a general-purpose language adopted by
many scientific applications such as computational fluid dynamics, bio
molecular simulation, artificial intelligence, statistics and data
analysis, scientific visualization etc. More and more industrial
domains are turning towards it as well, such as robotics, semiconductor
manufacturing, automotive solutions, telecommunication, computer
graphics, and games. In all fields, the use of Python for scientific,
high performance parallel, and distributed computing, as well as
general scripted automation is increasing. Moreover, Python is
well-suited for education in scientific computing.

The workshop will bring together researchers and practitioners from
industry and academia using Python for all aspects of high performance
and scientific computing. The goal is to present Python applications
from mathematics, science, and engineering, to discuss general topics
regarding the use of Python (such as language design and performance
issues), and to share experience using Python in scientific computing
education.


Topics
------
                * High performance computing with Python
                * Performance analysis, profiling, and debugging of Python code
                * System administration using Python
                * Integration with other programming languages
                * Python applications in mathematics, science, and engineering
                * Scientific visualization
                * Problem solving environments
                * Education in scientific computing



Papers/Submission
-----------------
We invite you to submit a paper of up to 10 pages via the submission
site (https://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=pyhpc2012).
All papers will be published published as a part of the SC 2012 digital
proceedings.  These are IEEE digital library proceedings that will be
available online. The 10-page limit includes figures, tables, and
appendices, but does not include references, for which there is no page
limit.  The formatting instructions are available here:
http://www.ieee.org/conferences_events/conferences/publishing/templates.html


Important Dates
---------------
Full paper submission:        September 14, 2012
Notification of acceptance:   October 1, 2012
Camera-ready papers:          October 29, 2012


Program Committee
-----------------
    * Achim Basermann, German Aerospace Center, Germany
    * David Beazley, Dabeaz, LLC, USA
    * William E. Hart, Sandia National Laboratories, USA
    * Konrad Hinsen, Centre de Biophysique Mol?culaire, CNRS Orl?ans, France
    * Guy K. Kloss, Auckland University of Technology, New Zealand
    * Maurice Ling, The University of Melbourne, Australia
    * Stuart Mitchell, The University of Auckland, New Zealand
    * Mike M?ller, Python Academy, Germany
    * Travis Oliphant, Continuum Analytics, Inc., USA
    * Fernando P?rez, University of California, Berkeley, USA
    * Massimo Di Pierro, DePaul University, USA
    * Marc Poinot, ONERA, France
    * Andy R. Terrel, Enthought, Inc., USA
    * Ga?l Varoquaux, INRIA, France

Workshop Organizers
-------------------
    * Chairs:   Andreas Schreiber, German Aerospace Center (DLR), Germany
                        William Scullin, Argonne National Laboratory, USA

E-Mail: pyhpc2012 at dlr.de


--------------------------
Deutsches Zentrum f?r Luft- und Raumfahrt e.V. (DLR)
German Aerospace Center
Simulation and Software Technology | Linder Hoehe | 51147 Cologne | Germany

Andreas Schreiber | Head of Department
Telephone 02203-601-2485 | Mobile 0173-5231013 | Telefax 02203-601-3070 | Andreas.Schreiber at dlr.de<mailto:Andreas.Schreiber at dlr.de>
www.DLR.de<http://www.dlr.de/> | software.DLR.de<http://software.dlr.de/>

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list

        Support the Python Software Foundation:
        http://www.python.org/psf/donations/


From malaclypse2 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 10:34:17 2012
From: malaclypse2 at gmail.com (Jerry Hill)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 10:34:17 -0400
Subject: string contains and special characters
In-Reply-To: <a6a8b018-f7d1-43ae-bee8-a2f2028866f1@googlegroups.com>
References: <a6a8b018-f7d1-43ae-bee8-a2f2028866f1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CADwdpyaVdbQGRdw5Df_mkySkuwogsQxG-Fb4HE8GZP2EgA8BSw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 10:02 AM, loial <jldunn2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am trying to match a string that containing the "<" and ">" characters, using the string contains function, but it never seems to find the lines containing the string
>
> e.g if mystring.contains("<TAG>") :
>
> Do I need to escape the characters...and if so how?

Strings don't have a contains() method.  Assuming that mystring is
actually a string, you should be getting a very specific error,
telling you exactly what's wrong with your code (something like
AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'contains').

If that isn't what you're seeing, you'll need to provide the full and
complete text of the error you are getting, and preferably enough of
your code that we can reproduce the issue and help you solve it.

-- 
Jerry


From d at davea.name  Tue Oct  9 10:34:30 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 10:34:30 -0400
Subject: string contains and special characters
In-Reply-To: <5074336E.9050404@davea.name>
References: <a6a8b018-f7d1-43ae-bee8-a2f2028866f1@googlegroups.com>
	<5074336E.9050404@davea.name>
Message-ID: <507435F6.6010500@davea.name>

On 10/09/2012 10:23 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 10/09/2012 10:02 AM, loial wrote:
>> I am trying to match a string that containing the "<" and ">" characters, using the string contains function, but it never seems to find the lines containing the string
>>
>> e.g if mystring.contains("<TAG>") :
>>
>> Do I need to escape the characters...and if so how?
>>
> What language are you trying to use, and what version of that language? 
> In all the Python versions I know of, that line would simply be a syntax

Sorry, I should have said "Attribute" error.

> error.  There's no "contains" method in the str class, use the 'in' keyword.
>
>     if  "<TAG>' in mystring:
>
> No need to escape any ASCII characters except backslash.
>


-- 

DaveA



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Oct  9 10:50:26 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 15:50:26 +0100
Subject: string contains and special characters
In-Reply-To: <5074336E.9050404@davea.name>
References: <a6a8b018-f7d1-43ae-bee8-a2f2028866f1@googlegroups.com>
	<5074336E.9050404@davea.name>
Message-ID: <k51dhr$j9$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 09/10/2012 15:23, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 10/09/2012 10:02 AM, loial wrote:
>> I am trying to match a string that containing the "<" and ">" characters, using the string contains function, but it never seems to find the lines containing the string
>>
>> e.g if mystring.contains("<TAG>") :
>>
>> Do I need to escape the characters...and if so how?
>>
>
> What language are you trying to use, and what version of that language?
> In all the Python versions I know of, that line would simply be a syntax
> error.  There's no "contains" method in the str class, use the 'in' keyword.

I see you've already corrected youself :)

>
>      if  "<TAG>' in mystring:
>
> No need to escape any ASCII characters except backslash.
>

No need to escape anything if raw strings are used.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Tue Oct  9 10:59:13 2012
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 16:59:13 +0200
Subject: string contains and special characters
In-Reply-To: <a6a8b018-f7d1-43ae-bee8-a2f2028866f1@googlegroups.com>
References: <a6a8b018-f7d1-43ae-bee8-a2f2028866f1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1nqdk9-iov.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 09.10.2012 16:02, schrieb loial:
> I am trying to match a string that containing the "<" and ">"
> characters, using the string contains function, but it never seems to
> find the lines containing the string
>
> e.g if mystring.contains("<TAG>") :

I can't locate a 'contains' function anywhere, what type is 'mystring'?


> Do I need to escape the characters...and if so how?

Maybe. Please provide some example code that unexpectedly fails.


Uli


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 11:08:20 2012
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 08:08:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: surprising behaviour of global dictionaries
Message-ID: <40ac555b-71c2-445e-814b-6bd1d037dbee@googlegroups.com>

I have the following module implementing a registry of functions with a decorator:

$ cat x.py
registry = {} # global dictionary

def dec(func):
    registry[func.__name__] = func
    print registry, id(registry)
    return func

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import xlib
    print registry, id(registry)

The library xlib just defines two dummy functions:

$ cat xlib.py
from x import dec

@dec
def f1():
    pass

@dec
def f2():
    pass

Then I get the following output:

$ python x.py
{'f1': <function f1 at 0x7f7bce0cd668>} 27920352
{'f1': <function f1 at 0x7f7bce0cd668>, 'f2': <function f2 at 0x7f7bce0cd6e0>} 27920352
{} 27395472

This is surprising since I would expect to have a single global dictionary, not two: how comes the registry inside the ``if __name__ == '__main__'`` block is different from the one seen in the library?

This is python 2.7.3 on Ubuntu.


From jldunn2000 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 11:09:30 2012
From: jldunn2000 at gmail.com (loial)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 08:09:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: string contains and special characters
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1997.1349792372.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <a6a8b018-f7d1-43ae-bee8-a2f2028866f1@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1997.1349792372.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <309cb8b0-ff38-4e2d-bb58-87d1d787fbed@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, 9 October 2012 15:19:33 UTC+1, Agon Hajdari wrote:
> On 10/09/2012 04:02 PM, loial wrote: > I am trying to match a string that containing the "<" and ">" characters, using the string contains function, but it never seems to find the lines containing the string > > e.g if mystring.contains("<TAG>") : > > Do I need to escape the characters...and if so how? > if '<TAG>' in yourstring: # your code -- Agon Hajdari

That worked...thanks


From jldunn2000 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 11:09:30 2012
From: jldunn2000 at gmail.com (loial)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 08:09:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: string contains and special characters
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1997.1349792372.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <a6a8b018-f7d1-43ae-bee8-a2f2028866f1@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1997.1349792372.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <309cb8b0-ff38-4e2d-bb58-87d1d787fbed@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, 9 October 2012 15:19:33 UTC+1, Agon Hajdari wrote:
> On 10/09/2012 04:02 PM, loial wrote: > I am trying to match a string that containing the "<" and ">" characters, using the string contains function, but it never seems to find the lines containing the string > > e.g if mystring.contains("<TAG>") : > > Do I need to escape the characters...and if so how? > if '<TAG>' in yourstring: # your code -- Agon Hajdari

That worked...thanks


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct  9 11:24:18 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 17:24:18 +0200
Subject: surprising behaviour of global dictionaries
References: <40ac555b-71c2-445e-814b-6bd1d037dbee@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k51fig$onk$1@ger.gmane.org>

Michele Simionato wrote:

> I have the following module implementing a registry of functions with a
> decorator:
> 
> $ cat x.py
> registry = {} # global dictionary
> 
> def dec(func):
>     registry[func.__name__] = func
>     print registry, id(registry)
>     return func
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     import xlib
>     print registry, id(registry)
> 
> The library xlib just defines two dummy functions:
> 
> $ cat xlib.py
> from x import dec
> 
> @dec
> def f1():
>     pass
> 
> @dec
> def f2():
>     pass
> 
> Then I get the following output:
> 
> $ python x.py
> {'f1': <function f1 at 0x7f7bce0cd668>} 27920352
> {'f1': <function f1 at 0x7f7bce0cd668>, 'f2': <function f2 at
> {0x7f7bce0cd6e0>} 27920352 } 27395472
> 
> This is surprising since I would expect to have a single global
> dictionary, not two: how comes the registry inside the ``if __name__ ==
> '__main__'`` block is different from the one seen in the library?
> 
> This is python 2.7.3 on Ubuntu.

Welcome to python -- this is a trap every newbie falls into ;)

Seriously, you shouldn't use the main script as a library; it is put into 
the sys.modules cache under the "__main__" key. Subsequent imports under its 
real name will not find that name in the cache and import another instance 
of the module, with puzzling effects, like

$ cat x.py 
import x
class A: pass
a = A()
assert isinstance(a, x.A)

$ python x.py 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "x.py", line 4, in <module>
    assert isinstance(a, x.A)
AssertionError
$ 




From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 11:36:59 2012
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 08:36:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: surprising behaviour of global dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2006.1349796256.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <40ac555b-71c2-445e-814b-6bd1d037dbee@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2006.1349796256.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b8a3d0c5-d6ba-42ef-a706-708b9148b594@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 5:24:17 PM UTC+2, Peter Otten wrote:
> Seriously, you shouldn't use the main script as a library; it is put into 
> 
> the sys.modules cache under the "__main__" key. Subsequent imports under its 
> 
> real name will not find that name in the cache and import another instance 
> 
> of the module, with puzzling effects

Actually I usually never use the main script as a library, this is why I never experience this puzzling behavior before. But now it is clear, thanks.


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 11:36:59 2012
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 08:36:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: surprising behaviour of global dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2006.1349796256.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <40ac555b-71c2-445e-814b-6bd1d037dbee@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2006.1349796256.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b8a3d0c5-d6ba-42ef-a706-708b9148b594@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 5:24:17 PM UTC+2, Peter Otten wrote:
> Seriously, you shouldn't use the main script as a library; it is put into 
> 
> the sys.modules cache under the "__main__" key. Subsequent imports under its 
> 
> real name will not find that name in the cache and import another instance 
> 
> of the module, with puzzling effects

Actually I usually never use the main script as a library, this is why I never experience this puzzling behavior before. But now it is clear, thanks.


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Oct  9 11:53:15 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 15:53:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: surprising behaviour of global dictionaries
References: <40ac555b-71c2-445e-814b-6bd1d037dbee@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2006.1349796256.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k51h9b$pla$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-09, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

> Welcome to python -- this is a trap every newbie falls into ;)
>
> Seriously, you shouldn't use the main script as a library;

There must be something wrong with me.  It never even occurred to me
to try to import a file from within that same file.  I don't think
I've ever even heard of that before...

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! The Korean War must
                                  at               have been fun.
                              gmail.com            


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Oct  9 12:00:00 2012
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 18:00:00 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Generating C++ code
In-Reply-To: <781541733.3114900.1349797969037.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <594985467.3115693.1349798400166.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>

Greetings,

I'm trying to generate C++ code from an XML file. I'd like to use a template engine, which imo produce something readable and maintainable.
My google search about this subject has been quite unsuccessful, I've been redirected to template engine specific to html mostly.

Does anybody knows a python template engine for generating C++ code ?

Here's my flow:

XML file -> nice python app -> C++ code

>From what I know I could use Cheetah, a generic template engine. I never used it though, I'm not sure this is what I need.
I'm familiar with jinja2 but I'm not sure I could use it to generate C++ code, did anybody try ? (maybe that's a silly question)

Any advice would be appreciated.

JM


From typetoken at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 12:00:29 2012
From: typetoken at gmail.com (Token Type)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 09:00:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: wordnet semantic similarity: how to refer to elements of a pair
	in a list? can we sort dictionary according to the value?
In-Reply-To: <ebbf2ca7-0933-4d25-9dc7-74d5fb7f9b67@wz4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
References: <2d6d84d4-0f70-4280-96e2-f9fe17d5be8b@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1928.1349632173.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<62e7500b-0d7d-4d5e-8c10-197d1988f364@googlegroups.com>
	<748ab20a-8e54-4732-b61d-272dd9717bb0@q7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<4d2a3205-ff2a-45f8-9c54-7ed98193aded@googlegroups.com>
	<ebbf2ca7-0933-4d25-9dc7-74d5fb7f9b67@wz4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3723738e-62d5-420d-a42c-4f5ee7034a17@googlegroups.com>

Thanks indeed for your tips. Now I understand the difference between tuples and dictionaries deeper.


From d at davea.name  Tue Oct  9 12:10:40 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 12:10:40 -0400
Subject: surprising behaviour of global dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <b8a3d0c5-d6ba-42ef-a706-708b9148b594@googlegroups.com>
References: <40ac555b-71c2-445e-814b-6bd1d037dbee@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2006.1349796256.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<b8a3d0c5-d6ba-42ef-a706-708b9148b594@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50744C80.7020601@davea.name>

On 10/09/2012 11:36 AM, Michele Simionato wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 5:24:17 PM UTC+2, Peter Otten wrote:
>> Seriously, you shouldn't use the main script as a library; it is put into 
>>
>> the sys.modules cache under the "__main__" key. Subsequent imports under its 
>>
>> real name will not find that name in the cache and import another instance 
>>
>> of the module, with puzzling effects
> Actually I usually never use the main script as a library, this is why I never experience this puzzling behavior before. But now it is clear, thanks.
More generally, you should arrange your imports so that there are no
cycles.  If module/script "a" imports "b", directly or indirectly, "b"
should not try to import "a."  Move the common code to a third place,
and import it from both "a" and from "b".

The other symptoms you can get are more subtle than this one, but just
as surprising.


-- 

DaveA



From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Tue Oct  9 12:40:17 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 16:40:17 +0000
Subject: Unpaking Tuple
In-Reply-To: <adht95F2luqU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <801f0e2c-7d1d-4e91-bec5-78c5e53a70ec@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1973.1349736270.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<adht95F2luqU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF474166E318A@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Bob Martin wrote
> in 682592 20121008 232126 "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com> wrote:
> >Thomas Bach wrote:=0D=0A> Hi there,=0D=0A> =0D=0A> On Sat, Oct 06, 2012 at =
> >03:08:38PM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> > my_tuple =3D my_=
> >tuple[:4]=0D=0A> > a,b,c,d =3D my_tuple if len(my_tuple) =3D=3D 4 else (my_=
> >tuple + (None,)*4)[:4]=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> =0D=0A> Are you sure this works as y=
> >ou expect? I just stumbled over the following:=0D=0A> =0D=0A> $ python=0D=
> >=0A> Python 3=2E2=2E3 (default, Jun 25 2012, 23:10:56)=0D=0A> [GCC 4=2E7=2E=
> >1] on linux2=0D=0A> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for mo=
> >re information=2E=0D=0A> >>> split =3D ['foo', 'bar']=0D=0A> >>> head, tail=
> >=3D split if len(split) =3D=3D 2 else split[0], None=0D=0A> >>> head=0D=0A=
> >> ['foo', 'bar']=0D=0A> >>> tail=0D=0A> >>>=0D=0A> =0D=0A> I don't get it! =
> >Could someone help me, please? Why is head not 'foo'=0D=0A> and tail not 'b=
> >ar'?=0D=0A> =0D=0A> Regards,=0D=0A> 	Thomas=0D=0A> --=0D=0A=0D=0AI think yo=
> >u just need to wrap the else in parenthesis so the=0D=0Aelse clause is trea=
> >ted as a tuple=2E Without the parenthesis =0D=0AI believe it is grouping th=
> >e code like this=2E=0D=0A=0D=0Ahead, tail =3D (split if len(split) =3D=3D 2=
> >else split[0] ), None=0D=0A=0D=0AYou want:=0D=0Ahead, tail =3D split if le=
> >n(split) =3D=3D 2 else (split[0], None )=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ARamit=0D=0AThis e=
> >mail is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and=0D=0Aconditio=
> >ns including on offers for the purchase or sale of=0D=0Asecurities, accurac=
> >y and completeness of information, viruses,=0D=0Aconfidentiality, legal pri=
> >vilege, and legal entity disclaimers,=0D=0Aavailable at http://www=2Ejpmorg=
> >an=2Ecom/pages/disclosures/email=2E
> 
> How does one unpack this post?  ;-)
> --

Hmm, I am not sure why that happened. For reference: 
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2012-October/632603.html
This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 12:45:31 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 10:45:31 -0600
Subject: FW: question Python custome events
In-Reply-To: <FE568A5D442B314AA200D599AB6090F508F9134B@IE1AEX3001.global.ds.honeywell.com>
References: <FE568A5D442B314AA200D599AB6090F508F9134B@IE1AEX3001.global.ds.honeywell.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=5RVS=LTLJ4P4kf-Di49V36zRSF1WkK3yYDj-nPEXaWQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 2:35 AM, Hussain, Mushabbar
<Mushabbar.Hussain at honeywell.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Is it possible to define an Event which should fire when a value of a
> variable changes? Something like below
>
>
>
> self.Bind(wx.EVT_ON_VAL_CHANGE, variable_to_watch, self.Callback)
>
>
>
> I need a Text ctrl UI which continuously changes values based on external
> data changes. Unfortunately I could not find events in Python which can be
> triggered when a variable value changes?  Please let me know how this can be
> achieved?

Yes, you would need to:

1) encapsulate the variable;

2) define a custom event;

3) set up a wx.EvtHandler for the variable, since it's not itself
associated with a window;

4) bind your callback to the event handler;

5) have the variable setter fire the custom event.

That said, an event is likely not going to be the best way to do this.
 You should instead use the wx.lib.pubsub module, which implements the
observer pattern for you.  This will be cleaner and easier, as you
only need to:

1) encapsulate the variable;

2) subscribe your callback to the update message;

3) have the variable setter publish the update message.

Observers are also conceptually simpler than events.  You can find
information about pubsub at:

http://wiki.wxpython.org/WxLibPubSub

Cheers,
Ian


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 13:08:13 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 11:08:13 -0600
Subject: Private methods
In-Reply-To: <50742FD4.8030007@gmail.com>
References: <1krpbz9.1wge3j11123k2vN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<mailman.1994.1349790529.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1krpdak.u0qy9e1a4knspN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<50742FD4.8030007@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnkgPDq2XAqkaF58NpBuh=EY+GQzepkSMZEVqhBpLb7Hw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 8:08 AM, Demian Brecht <demianbrecht at gmail.com> wrote:
> A single underscore semantically means private. A double underscore will
> name mangle the function such that it's only accessible strictly by name
> through the class that it's define in. Note that you *can* still access it
> if you understand how name mangling works. Nothing in Python is truly
> private.

I tend to view name mangling as being more for avoiding internal
attribute collisions in complex inheritance structures than for
designating names as private.


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct  9 13:45:04 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 19:45:04 +0200
Subject: surprising behaviour of global dictionaries
References: <40ac555b-71c2-445e-814b-6bd1d037dbee@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2006.1349796256.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k51h9b$pla$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <k51nqc$cip$1@ger.gmane.org>

Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2012-10-09, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> 
>> Welcome to python -- this is a trap every newbie falls into ;)
>>
>> Seriously, you shouldn't use the main script as a library;
> 
> There must be something wrong with me.  It never even occurred to me
> to try to import a file from within that same file.  

It is typically done in two steps: 

(1) Write module x, use it in module y.
(2) For convenience add "if __name__ == '__main__'" and import module y.

Hilarity ensues.

> I don't think I've ever even heard of that before...

As I was poking fun at Michele who really is an expert and likely knows more 
about Python than I do I may have exaggerated a bit ;)

But it does come up, see

"Singleton implementation problems"
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2008-July/470770.html

"Dynamically declared shared constant/variable imported twice problem"
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2009-May/535619.html

There are more, but I don't know a convenient way to find the posts.
Related problems with reload() or paths into a package occur even more 
frequently.



From fr4nkl1nz at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 14:02:17 2012
From: fr4nkl1nz at gmail.com (Frank Franklin)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 11:02:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Getting ipython notebook to plot inline
Message-ID: <ba5ade32-dfd4-4443-a569-c7488cd77659@googlegroups.com>

I've just managed to install ipython and get it to run by typing ipython notebook --pylab=inline

Now I'm getting the following error when I try to plot something in ipython notebook:
    AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'FigureCanvas'

I've tried using imports to make this work:
    import matplotlib.pyplot as plt
    import numpy as np
    x = np.arange(0, 5, 0.1);
    y = np.sin(x)
    plt.plot(x, y)

But for some reason I still get this error. Anybody else know what's going on here? All of the print statements I've done before have worked, and I actually got my plots to work when I didn't set --pylab=inline, though they came up in a separate window and I want them to stay in the ipython notebook.


From Tim.Arnold at sas.com  Tue Oct  9 15:44:49 2012
From: Tim.Arnold at sas.com (Tim Arnold)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 15:44:49 -0400
Subject: communicate with external process via pty
Message-ID: <k51uri$kqq$1@foggy.unx.sas.com>

I have an external process, 'tralics' that emits mathml when you feed it 
latex equations. I want to get that mathml into a string.

The problem for me is that tralics wants to talk to a tty and I've never 
done that before; it basically starts its own subshell.

I have the following code which works for simple things. I'm not sure 
this is the best way though: basically I got this from google...

import os,sys
import subprocess
import shlex
import pty
cmd =  'tralics --interactivemath'

(master, slave) = pty.openpty()
p = subprocess.Popen(shlex.split(cmd),close_fds=True,
                      stdin=slave,stdout=slave,stderr=slave)

os.read(master,1024)                # start the process
os.write(master,'$\sqrt{x}$\n')     # feed it an equation
mathml.append(os.read(master,1024)) # get the mathml in a string

os.write(master,'$\sqrt{x}$\n')     # feed more equations
mathml.append(os.read(master,1024)) # get the next string


Any suggestions for improvement?
thanks,
--Tim


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 15:55:48 2012
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (Andrea Crotti)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 20:55:48 +0100
Subject: Generating C++ code
In-Reply-To: <594985467.3115693.1349798400166.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
References: <594985467.3115693.1349798400166.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <50748144.30301@gmail.com>

On 10/09/2012 05:00 PM, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I'm trying to generate C++ code from an XML file. I'd like to use a template engine, which imo produce something readable and maintainable.
> My google search about this subject has been quite unsuccessful, I've been redirected to template engine specific to html mostly.
>
> Does anybody knows a python template engine for generating C++ code ?
>
> Here's my flow:
>
> XML file -> nice python app -> C++ code
>
>  From what I know I could use Cheetah, a generic template engine. I never used it though, I'm not sure this is what I need.
> I'm familiar with jinja2 but I'm not sure I could use it to generate C++ code, did anybody try ? (maybe that's a silly question)
>
> Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> JM

I think you can use anything to generate C++ code, but is it a good idea?
Are you going to produce this code only one time and then maintain it 
manually?

And are you sure that the design that you would get from the XML file 
actually makes sense when
translated in C++?


From animelovin at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 16:52:26 2012
From: animelovin at gmail.com (Etienne Robillard)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 16:52:26 -0400
Subject: Generating C++ code
In-Reply-To: <50748144.30301@gmail.com>
References: <594985467.3115693.1349798400166.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<50748144.30301@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121009165226.13e5f3040b636e280f0ab2f6@gmail.com>

On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 20:55:48 +0100
Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 10/09/2012 05:00 PM, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> > Greetings,
> >
> > I'm trying to generate C++ code from an XML file. I'd like to use a template engine, which imo produce something readable and maintainable.
> > My google search about this subject has been quite unsuccessful, I've been redirected to template engine specific to html mostly.
> >
> > Does anybody knows a python template engine for generating C++ code ?
> >
> > Here's my flow:
> >
> > XML file -> nice python app -> C++ code
> >
> >  From what I know I could use Cheetah, a generic template engine. I never used it though, I'm not sure this is what I need.
> > I'm familiar with jinja2 but I'm not sure I could use it to generate C++ code, did anybody try ? (maybe that's a silly question)
> >
> > Any advice would be appreciated.
> >
> > JM
> 
> I think you can use anything to generate C++ code, but is it a good idea?
> Are you going to produce this code only one time and then maintain it 
> manually?
> 
> And are you sure that the design that you would get from the XML file 
> actually makes sense when
> translated in C++?
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

You can build nice python app with Cython/Pyrex too if you got sufficient knowledge in C/C++ programming
to extend the app in C. :-)

Otherwise that seem like a little counter-productive to produce a python template only for generating C stubs when python
is good for many things without requiring advanced C++ skills like memory management, etc.
 
HTH,
E
-- 
Etienne Robillard
Green Tea Hackers Club
Fine Software Carpentry For The Rest Of Us!
http://gthc.org/
erob at gthcfoundation.org


From admin at hotnet1.com  Tue Oct  9 17:51:05 2012
From: admin at hotnet1.com (admin at hotnet1.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 14:51:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: share with friends
Message-ID: <799713ac-69da-4ebd-b1ba-974ac61be606@googlegroups.com>

HotNet1

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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Oct  9 19:51:07 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Oct 2012 23:51:07 GMT
Subject: Private methods
References: <1krpbz9.1wge3j11123k2vN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<mailman.1994.1349790529.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1krpdak.u0qy9e1a4knspN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<50742FD4.8030007@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2012.1349802524.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5074b86b$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 11:08:13 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 8:08 AM, Demian Brecht <demianbrecht at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> A single underscore semantically means private. A double underscore
>> will name mangle the function such that it's only accessible strictly
>> by name through the class that it's define in. Note that you *can*
>> still access it if you understand how name mangling works. Nothing in
>> Python is truly private.
> 
> I tend to view name mangling as being more for avoiding internal
> attribute collisions in complex inheritance structures than for
> designating names as private.

Really? I tend to view name mangling as a waste of time, and complex 
inheritance structures as something to avoid.



-- 
Steven


From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 20:26:27 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 17:26:27 -0700
Subject: Private methods
In-Reply-To: <5074b86b$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <1krpbz9.1wge3j11123k2vN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<mailman.1994.1349790529.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1krpdak.u0qy9e1a4knspN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<50742FD4.8030007@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2012.1349802524.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5074b86b$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <5074C0B3.4070303@gmail.com>

On 12-10-09 04:51 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Really? I tend to view name mangling as a waste of time, and complex
> inheritance structures as something to avoid.

Yep, I've been coming around to this as of late.

-- 
Demian Brecht
@demianbrecht
http://demianbrecht.github.com


From whzhao at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 20:32:11 2012
From: whzhao at gmail.com (Wenhua Zhao)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 17:32:11 -0700
Subject: an error in python lib?
Message-ID: <CAAGqYJ22hAdr3-UVeXM_TEwfP_uGu8JoCdh_LHjWOyH2cRphwQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi list,

I just noticed that in /usr/lib/python2.7/threading.py

class _Condition(_Verbose):
    ...
    def _is_owned(self):
        # Return True if lock is owned by current_thread.
        # This method is called only if __lock doesn't have
_is_owned().
        if self.__lock.acquire(0):
            self.__lock.release()
            return False
        else:
            return True

The return values seem to be wrong.  They should be swapped:

    def _is_owned(self):
        if self.__lock.acquire(0):
            self.__lock.release()
            return True
        else:
            return False

Or I understood it wrong here?

Thanks,
Wenhua


From kw at codebykevin.com  Tue Oct  9 20:35:52 2012
From: kw at codebykevin.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 20:35:52 -0400
Subject: IDLE Crashing in Mac OS 10.8.2 with 2.7.3
In-Reply-To: <36bb038f-2343-413e-b7f2-e9b2079bc507@googlegroups.com>
References: <36bb038f-2343-413e-b7f2-e9b2079bc507@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k52ft8$ovn$1@dont-email.me>

On 10/9/12 11:27 AM, bkeegan at gmail.com wrote:
> I've tried all the usual suspect of uninstalling and reinstalling IDLE and Python 2.7.3, but my IDLE environment always crashes unexpectedly on Mac OS X 10.8.

Where did you get Python? What version of Tcl/Tk do you have installed? 
Is it the one from ActiveState or the one bundled with OS X?

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com


From animelovin at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 20:58:43 2012
From: animelovin at gmail.com (Etienne Robillard)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 20:58:43 -0400
Subject: Porting notmm to pep 3333 and mod_wsgi
Message-ID: <20121009205843.969a57fc204224c9c821385f@gmail.com>

Hi,

Has PEP-3333 introduced backward incompatibilities or changes in unicode encoding
and decoding or should this updated pep require python 3 to make mod_wsgi working with wsgi 1.0 (pep-333)
scripts ? Moreover is it possible to use python 2.7 with mod_wsgi at all without the utf-8 
encoding errors? 

Besides theses minor Unicode encoding problems I'm glad to announce experimental mod_wsgi support for notmm 
on python 2.7.3. I will also include a sample app into the next notmm release as a proof-of-concept for Django-based
projects but so far I haven't found more serious problems following the standard documentation in mod_wsgi 3.4... 

Furthermore this newer support for mod_wsgi should allow experimented Django developers to use mod_wsgi and Apache as an alternative to FastCGI (and nginx) for serving high-performance Django apps compiled into optimized C bindings using Cython and notmm! :-)  

Cheers,
Etienne

-- 
Etienne Robillard
Green Tea Hackers Club
Fine Software Carpentry For The Rest Of Us!
http://gthc.org/
erob at gthcfoundation.org

Donations for the notmm project are accepted through Pledgie.com. 
For more info please visit: 
http://pledgie.com/campaigns/16268


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Oct  9 21:16:46 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 02:16:46 +0100
Subject: an error in python lib?
In-Reply-To: <CAAGqYJ22hAdr3-UVeXM_TEwfP_uGu8JoCdh_LHjWOyH2cRphwQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAGqYJ22hAdr3-UVeXM_TEwfP_uGu8JoCdh_LHjWOyH2cRphwQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5074CC7E.8020901@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-10 01:32, Wenhua Zhao wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> I just noticed that in /usr/lib/python2.7/threading.py
>
> class _Condition(_Verbose):
>      ...
>      def _is_owned(self):
>          # Return True if lock is owned by current_thread.
>          # This method is called only if __lock doesn't have
> _is_owned().
>          if self.__lock.acquire(0):
>              self.__lock.release()
>              return False
>          else:
>              return True
>
> The return values seem to be wrong.  They should be swapped:
>
>      def _is_owned(self):
>          if self.__lock.acquire(0):
>              self.__lock.release()
>              return True
>          else:
>              return False
>
> Or I understood it wrong here?
>
The .acquire method will return True if the attempt to acquire has been
successful. This can occur only if it is not currently owned.

In pseudocode:

if the attempt to acquire it succeeds:
     no-one owed it before, but now I own it
     release it
     now no-one owns it
     return False
else:
     someone already owns it
     return True



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Wed Oct 10 01:23:55 2012
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 07:23:55 +0200
Subject: lxml 3.0 final released - efficient XML and HTML processing with
	Python
Message-ID: <k530pe$k4h$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hi everyone,

it's been a while since the last stable release series appeared, so I'm
proud to announce the final release of lxml 3.0.

http://lxml.de/

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/lxml/3.0

Changelog: http://lxml.de/changes-3.0.html

In short, lxml is the most feature-rich and easy-to-use library for
processing XML and HTML in the Python language. It's also very fast, in
case you're interested in that. It runs on Python 2.4 - 3.3.

The 3.0 release features initial support for PyPy and a new tree API for
DTDs (by Walter D?rwald), as well as some major cleanups in the code base.
The lxml.cssselect package was moved into a separate PyPI project nicely
extended and maintained by Simon Sapin.

If you are interested in commercial support or customisations for the lxml
package, please contact me directly.

Have fun,

Stefan



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct 10 02:59:04 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:59:04 +0200
Subject: communicate with external process via pty
References: <k51uri$kqq$1@foggy.unx.sas.com>
Message-ID: <k536b0$qmp$1@ger.gmane.org>

Tim Arnold wrote:

> I have an external process, 'tralics' that emits mathml when you feed it
> latex equations. I want to get that mathml into a string.
> 
> The problem for me is that tralics wants to talk to a tty and I've never
> done that before; it basically starts its own subshell.
> 
> I have the following code which works for simple things. I'm not sure
> this is the best way though: basically I got this from google...
> 
> import os,sys
> import subprocess
> import shlex
> import pty
> cmd =  'tralics --interactivemath'
> 
> (master, slave) = pty.openpty()
> p = subprocess.Popen(shlex.split(cmd),close_fds=True,
>                       stdin=slave,stdout=slave,stderr=slave)
> 
> os.read(master,1024)                # start the process
> os.write(master,'$\sqrt{x}$\n')     # feed it an equation
> mathml.append(os.read(master,1024)) # get the mathml in a string
> 
> os.write(master,'$\sqrt{x}$\n')     # feed more equations
> mathml.append(os.read(master,1024)) # get the next string
> 
> 
> Any suggestions for improvement?

Do you know about pexpect?

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pexpect



From real-not-anti-spam-address at apple-juice.co.uk  Wed Oct 10 03:03:25 2012
From: real-not-anti-spam-address at apple-juice.co.uk (D.M. Procida)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:03:25 +0100
Subject: Private methods
References: <1krpbz9.1wge3j11123k2vN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<mailman.1994.1349790529.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1krpdak.u0qy9e1a4knspN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<50742FD4.8030007@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2012.1349802524.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5074b86b$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2016.1349828799.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1krqopm.19fo57y1wri8yaN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>

Demian Brecht <demianbrecht at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 12-10-09 04:51 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > Really? I tend to view name mangling as a waste of time, and complex
> > inheritance structures as something to avoid.
> 
> Yep, I've been coming around to this as of late.

I have a lot of inheritance. I don't know whether you'd call it complex,
but I use a lot of mixins to build classes.

It certainly makes it quick to build a class with the attributes I need,
but it does make tracing logic sometimes a pain in the neck.

I don't know what the alternative is though.

Daniele


From real-not-anti-spam-address at apple-juice.co.uk  Wed Oct 10 03:03:26 2012
From: real-not-anti-spam-address at apple-juice.co.uk (D.M. Procida)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:03:26 +0100
Subject: lxml 3.0 final released - efficient XML and HTML processing
	with	Python
References: <mailman.2020.1349846660.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1krqovq.1jd55xc1hpdwmtN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>

Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de> wrote:

> it's been a while since the last stable release series appeared, so I'm
> proud to announce the final release of lxml 3.0.

Great. We use it in
<https://bitbucket.org/spookylukey/semanticeditor/wiki/Home>.

Thanks.

Daniele


From joon.ch at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 04:51:16 2012
From: joon.ch at gmail.com (Joon Ki Choi)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 01:51:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Delete duplicate rows in textfile - except it contains a "{" or "}"
Message-ID: <06b9cc41-b622-4574-b646-7f94c987de63@googlegroups.com>


Hello Pythonistas,

i have a very large textfile with contents like:

@INBOOK{Ackermann1999-b,
  author = {Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann,
	K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F.
	and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and
	Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann,
	K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F.
	and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and
	Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann,
	K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F.
	and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and
	Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann},
  year = {1980},
  timestamp = {1995-12-02}
}	

And i want to delete the duplicate rows except these rows containing the brackets { or }. 
The result should look like:

@INBOOK{Ackermann1999-b,
  author = {Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann,
	Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann},
  year = {1980},
  timestamp = {1995-12-02}
}

I come across with this Python-Skript:

lines_seen = set() # holds lines already seen
outfile = open("literatur_clean.txt", "w")
for line in open("literatur_dupl.txt", "r"):
    if line not in lines_seen: # not a duplicate
        outfile.write(line)
        lines_seen.add(line)
outfile.close()

But it deletes also the lines with a closing bracket } and the lines with the same authordata.
Therefor i need the condition of the brackets.

Could someone point me out to adding this condition?

Thanks in advance,
Joon






From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 10 05:28:24 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 10:28:24 +0100
Subject: Delete duplicate rows in textfile - except it contains a "{"
	or "}"
In-Reply-To: <06b9cc41-b622-4574-b646-7f94c987de63@googlegroups.com>
References: <06b9cc41-b622-4574-b646-7f94c987de63@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k53ev3$4kg$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/10/2012 09:51, Joon Ki Choi wrote:
>
> Hello Pythonistas,
>
> i have a very large textfile with contents like:
>
> @INBOOK{Ackermann1999-b,
>    author = {Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann,
> 	K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F.
> 	and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and
> 	Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann,
> 	K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F.
> 	and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and
> 	Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann,
> 	K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F.
> 	and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and
> 	Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann},
>    year = {1980},
>    timestamp = {1995-12-02}
> }	
>
> And i want to delete the duplicate rows except these rows containing the brackets { or }.
> The result should look like:
>
> @INBOOK{Ackermann1999-b,
>    author = {Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann,
> 	Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann},
>    year = {1980},
>    timestamp = {1995-12-02}
> }
>
> I come across with this Python-Skript:
>
> lines_seen = set() # holds lines already seen
> outfile = open("literatur_clean.txt", "w")

Slight aside, you could use this so there's no need to explicitly close 
the file.

with open("literatur_dupl.txt", "r") as infile

> for line in infile:
>      if line not in lines_seen: # not a duplicate
>          outfile.write(line)
>          lines_seen.add(line)

Something like:-

if "{" in line or "}" in line or line not in lines_seen:

> outfile.close()
>
> But it deletes also the lines with a closing bracket } and the lines with the same authordata.
> Therefor i need the condition of the brackets.
>
> Could someone point me out to adding this condition?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Joon
>

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Oct 10 05:59:50 2012
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 11:59:50 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Generating C++ code
In-Reply-To: <20121009165226.13e5f3040b636e280f0ab2f6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <596686195.3370358.1349863190132.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>

----- Original Message -----
> On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 20:55:48 +0100
> Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 10/09/2012 05:00 PM, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> > > Greetings,
> > >
> > > I'm trying to generate C++ code from an XML file. I'd like to use
> > > a template engine, which imo produce something readable and
> > > maintainable.
> > > My google search about this subject has been quite unsuccessful,
> > > I've been redirected to template engine specific to html mostly.
> > >
> > > Does anybody knows a python template engine for generating C++
> > > code ?
> > >
> > > Here's my flow:
> > >
> > > XML file -> nice python app -> C++ code
> > >
> > >  From what I know I could use Cheetah, a generic template engine.
> > >  I never used it though, I'm not sure this is what I need.
> > > I'm familiar with jinja2 but I'm not sure I could use it to
> > > generate C++ code, did anybody try ? (maybe that's a silly
> > > question)
> > >
> > > Any advice would be appreciated.
> > >
> > > JM
> > 
> > I think you can use anything to generate C++ code, but is it a good
> > idea?
> > Are you going to produce this code only one time and then maintain
> > it
> > manually?
> > 
> > And are you sure that the design that you would get from the XML
> > file
> > actually makes sense when
> > translated in C++?
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> You can build nice python app with Cython/Pyrex too if you got
> sufficient knowledge in C/C++ programming
> to extend the app in C. :-)
> 
> Otherwise that seem like a little counter-productive to produce a
> python template only for generating C stubs when python
> is good for many things without requiring advanced C++ skills like
> memory management, etc.
>  
> HTH,
> E
> --
> Etienne Robillard
> Green Tea Hackers Club
> Fine Software Carpentry For The Rest Of Us!
> http://gthc.org/
> erob at gthcfoundation.org

Well, the C++ code will end up running on a MIPS on a SOC, unfortunately, python is not an option here. 
The xml to C++ makes a lot of sense, because only a small part of the code is generated that way (everything related to log & fatal events). Everything else is written directly in C++.

To answer Andrea's question, the files are regenerated for every compilation (well, unless the xml didn't change, but the xml is highly subject to changes, that's actually its purpose)

Currently we already have a python script that translate this xml file to C++, but it's done in a way that is difficult to maintain. Basically, when parsing the xml file, it writes the generated C++ code. Something like:
if 'blabla' in xml:
  h_file.write("#define blabla 55", append="top")
  c_file.write("someglobal = blabla", append="bottom")

This is working, but the python code is quite difficult to maintain, there's a lot of escaping going on, it's almost impossible to see the structure of the c files unless generating one and hopping it's successful. It's also quite difficult to insert code exactly where you want, because you do not know the order in which the xml trees are defined then parsed.

I was just wondering if a template engine would help. Maybe not.

JM


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct 10 06:32:11 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 12:32:11 +0200
Subject: Delete duplicate rows in textfile - except it contains a "{" or
	"}"
References: <06b9cc41-b622-4574-b646-7f94c987de63@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k53iqj$6li$1@ger.gmane.org>

Joon Ki Choi wrote:

> 
> Hello Pythonistas,
> 
> i have a very large textfile with contents like:
> 
> @INBOOK{Ackermann1999-b,
>   author = {Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and
>   Ackermann,
> K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F.
> and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and
> Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann,
> K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F.
> and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and
> Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann,
> K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F.
> and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and
> Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann},
>   year = {1980},
>   timestamp = {1995-12-02}
> }
> 
> And i want to delete the duplicate rows except these rows containing the
> brackets { or }. The result should look like:
> 
> @INBOOK{Ackermann1999-b,
>   author = {Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and
>   Ackermann,
> Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann},
>   year = {1980},
>   timestamp = {1995-12-02}
> }
> 
> I come across with this Python-Skript:
> 
> lines_seen = set() # holds lines already seen
> outfile = open("literatur_clean.txt", "w")
> for line in open("literatur_dupl.txt", "r"):
>     if line not in lines_seen: # not a duplicate
>         outfile.write(line)
>         lines_seen.add(line)
> outfile.close()
> 
> But it deletes also the lines with a closing bracket } and the lines with
> the same authordata. Therefor i need the condition of the brackets.
> 
> Could someone point me out to adding this condition?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Joon

Not what you asked for, but here is something that is quick-and-dirty, too, 
but tries a bit harder:

import re

def unique(match):
    names = match.group()[1:-1].split(",")
    parts = set(" ".join(author.split()) for author in names)
    return "{%s}" % ", ".join(parts)

if __name__ == "__main__":
    with open("literatur_dupl.txt") as f:
        data = f.read()
    data = re.compile("{[^{}]*}", re.DOTALL).sub(unique, data)

    with open("literatur_clean.txt", "w") as f:
        f.write(data)

I'm assuming that "very large" means that the file contents still 
comfortably fit into your computer's memory...



From animelovin at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 06:36:12 2012
From: animelovin at gmail.com (Etienne Robillard)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 06:36:12 -0400
Subject: Generating C++ code
In-Reply-To: <596686195.3370358.1349863190132.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
References: <20121009165226.13e5f3040b636e280f0ab2f6@gmail.com>
	<596686195.3370358.1349863190132.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <20121010063612.c555b79fb895cff61bb9b3aa@gmail.com>

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 11:59:50 +0200 (CEST)
Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:

> Well, the C++ code will end up running on a MIPS on a SOC, unfortunately, python is not an option here. 
> The xml to C++ makes a lot of sense, because only a small part of the code is generated that way (everything related to log & fatal events). Everything else is written directly in C++.

sorry but i don't get what you mean with a "MIPS on a SOC". Is not Python well supported on MIPS ?
 
> Currently we already have a python script that translate this xml file to C++, but it's done in a way that is difficult to maintain. Basically, when parsing the xml file, it writes the generated C++ code. Something like:
> if 'blabla' in xml:
>   h_file.write("#define blabla 55", append="top")
>   c_file.write("someglobal = blabla", append="bottom")

Don't do that! This is a good example of ambigous coding (to say the least..) and you'll make C++ programmers eyes to bleed
at this. 

> This is working, but the python code is quite difficult to maintain, there's a lot of escaping going on, it's almost impossible to see the structure of the c files unless generating one and hopping it's successful. It's also quite difficult to insert code exactly where you want, because you do not know the order in which the xml trees are defined then parsed.

Its maybe working but why then are you stuck asking for help ? I suggest you either write plain C++ code or learn to 
use Python more efficiently...


> JM
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Kind regards,
Etienne


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Wed Oct 10 06:39:33 2012
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 12:39:33 +0200
Subject: Generating C++ code
In-Reply-To: <596686195.3370358.1349863190132.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
References: <20121009165226.13e5f3040b636e280f0ab2f6@gmail.com>
	<596686195.3370358.1349863190132.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <k53j94$alo$1@ger.gmane.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant, 10.10.2012 11:59:
> Well, the C++ code will end up running on a MIPS on a SOC,
> unfortunately, python is not an option here. The xml to C++ makes a lot
> of sense, because only a small part of the code is generated that way
> (everything related to log & fatal events). Everything else is written
> directly in C++.
> 
> To answer Andrea's question, the files are regenerated for every
> compilation (well, unless the xml didn't change, but the xml is highly
> subject to changes, that's actually its purpose)
> 
> Currently we already have a python script that translate this xml file
> to C++, but it's done in a way that is difficult to maintain. Basically,
> when parsing the xml file, it writes the generated C++ code. Something
> like:
> 
> if 'blabla' in xml:
>     h_file.write("#define blabla 55", append="top")
>     c_file.write("someglobal = blabla", append="bottom")
> 
> This is working, but the python code is quite difficult to maintain,
> there's a lot of escaping going on, it's almost impossible to see the
> structure of the c files unless generating one and hopping it's
> successful. It's also quite difficult to insert code exactly where you
> want, because you do not know the order in which the xml trees are
> defined then parsed.
> 
> I was just wondering if a template engine would help. Maybe not.

Depends. Template engines are great for injecting small data snippets into
large static code blocks. They are less good for finely structured code
with conditional insertions and varying code order all over the place.

In Cython, we use a combination of both: a template engine for large code
blocks with small adaptations and line-by-line generated C code for highly
varying code. Works nicely.

As for a template engine, we use Tempita for the more complex stuff
(because the implementation is small and can be embedded) and
string.Template for the simple stuff. If you need something more advanced
straight away, I'd say go for Cheetah.

In case you decide not to use a template engine at all, given that your
input format is XML, consider using lxml to build up your code tree for you
by using custom element classes. Then, generate the code recursively top-down.

http://lxml.de/element_classes.html

Might or might not be a suitable approach, depending on the complexity of
your mapping from XML to code.

Stefan



From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 06:41:01 2012
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (andrea crotti)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 11:41:01 +0100
Subject: Generating C++ code
In-Reply-To: <596686195.3370358.1349863190132.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
References: <20121009165226.13e5f3040b636e280f0ab2f6@gmail.com>
	<596686195.3370358.1349863190132.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <CAF_E5Jb5pjBtKSi3qc8B7XYps=cTDRAxfVJMi1YQOiShr2eaDg@mail.gmail.com>

2012/10/10 Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com>:
> Well, the C++ code will end up running on a MIPS on a SOC, unfortunately, python is not an option here.
> The xml to C++ makes a lot of sense, because only a small part of the code is generated that way (everything related to log & fatal events). Everything else is written directly in C++.
>
> To answer Andrea's question, the files are regenerated for every compilation (well, unless the xml didn't change, but the xml is highly subject to changes, that's actually its purpose)
>
> Currently we already have a python script that translate this xml file to C++, but it's done in a way that is difficult to maintain. Basically, when parsing the xml file, it writes the generated C++ code. Something like:
> if 'blabla' in xml:
>   h_file.write("#define blabla 55", append="top")
>   c_file.write("someglobal = blabla", append="bottom")
>
> This is working, but the python code is quite difficult to maintain, there's a lot of escaping going on, it's almost impossible to see the structure of the c files unless generating one and hopping it's successful. It's also quite difficult to insert code exactly where you want, because you do not know the order in which the xml trees are defined then parsed.
>
> I was just wondering if a template engine would help. Maybe not.
>
> JM
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


I think it depends on what you're writing from the XML, are you
generating just constants (like the #define) or also new classes for
example?

If it's just constants why don't you do a generation from XML -> ini
or something similar and then parse it in the C++ properly, then it
would be very easy to do?

You could also parse the XML in the first place but probably that's
harder given your requirements, but I don't think that an ini file
would be a problem, or would it?


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Wed Oct 10 06:47:46 2012
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 12:47:46 +0200
Subject: Generating C++ code
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2008.1349798449.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2008.1349798449.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ib0gk9-ig5.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 09.10.2012 18:00, schrieb Jean-Michel Pichavant:
> I'm trying to generate C++ code from an XML file. I'd like to use a
> template engine, which imo produce something readable and
> maintainable.
> [...]
> Here's my flow:
>
> XML file -> nice python app -> C++ code

There is one question that you should answer (or maybe decide?) first: 
How close is the XML structure to C++ semantically?

The syntactic level is obviously very different, as one uses XML as 
metaformat while the other is C++. The semantic level is rather about 
the question if there is e.g. a "<class name='foo'>" that directly 
translates to a "class foo {" in C++. If that is the case, the SAX API 
should help you, as it basically invokes callbacks for every XML element 
encountered while parsing the input stream. In those callbacks, you 
could then generate the according C++ code in a way that should be 
readable and maintainable with plain Python or some template engine.

You you need to skip back-and-forth over the input, reading the whole 
XML as DOM tree would probably be a better approach. Still, the 
processing of input is separate from output generation, so you could at 
least divide your task before conquering it.

Notes:
  - There is also XSLT which can generate pretty much anything from XML, 
but it is can't do much more than text replacements triggered by input 
matching. The more the output differs semantically from the input, the 
more difficult it becomes to use. Also, XSLT tends to become write-only 
code, i.e. unreadable.
  - I think there was a feature in GCC that allows generating XML from 
C++ input, maybe even the reverse. Maybe you could leverage that?


Good luck!

Uli


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Wed Oct 10 08:04:03 2012
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 14:04:03 +0200
Subject: an error in python lib?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2017.1349829133.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2017.1349829133.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jq4gk9-fr5.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 10.10.2012 02:32, schrieb Wenhua Zhao:
> I just noticed that in /usr/lib/python2.7/threading.py
>
> class _Condition(_Verbose):
>      ...
>      def _is_owned(self):
>          # Return True if lock is owned by current_thread.
>          # This method is called only if __lock doesn't have
>          # _is_owned().
>          if self.__lock.acquire(0):
>              self.__lock.release()
>              return False
>          else:
>              return True
>
> The return values seem to be wrong.  They should be swapped:
>
>      def _is_owned(self):
>          if self.__lock.acquire(0):
>              self.__lock.release()
>              return True
>          else:
>              return False
>
> Or I understood it wrong here?

I think you are correct, but there is one thing that I would audit 
first: The whole code there seems to use integers in places where a 
boolean would be appropriate, like e.g. the 'blocking' parameter to 
acquire(). I wouldn't be surprised to find the interpretation of "0 
means no error" in some places there, so that a False translates to 0 
and then to "OK, I have the lock".

Also, assuming an underlying implementation where a nonblocking 
acquire() could still newly acquire an uncontended lock, that 
implementation would release the acquired lock and still return "yes I'm 
holding the lock", which would be dead wrong. It must verify if the lock 
count is at least 2 after acquiring the lock.

Uli



From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Wed Oct 10 08:18:31 2012
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 14:18:31 +0200
Subject: an error in python lib?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2019.1349831812.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAAGqYJ22hAdr3-UVeXM_TEwfP_uGu8JoCdh_LHjWOyH2cRphwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2019.1349831812.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nl5gk9-0t5.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 10.10.2012 03:16, schrieb MRAB:
> On 2012-10-10 01:32, Wenhua Zhao wrote:
>> Hi list,
>>
>> I just noticed that in /usr/lib/python2.7/threading.py
>>
>> class _Condition(_Verbose):
>>      ...
>>      def _is_owned(self):
>>          # Return True if lock is owned by current_thread.
>>          # This method is called only if __lock doesn't have
>>          # _is_owned().
>>          if self.__lock.acquire(0):
>>              self.__lock.release()
>>              return False
>>          else:
>>              return True
>>
>> The return values seem to be wrong.  They should be swapped:
>>
>>      def _is_owned(self):
>>          if self.__lock.acquire(0):
>>              self.__lock.release()
>>              return True
>>          else:
>>              return False
>>
>> Or I understood it wrong here?
>>
> The .acquire method will return True if the attempt to acquire has been
> successful. This can occur only if it is not currently owned.

The comment clearly states "owned by current thread", not "owned by any 
thread". The latter would also be useless, as that can change 
concurrently at any time when owned by a different thread, so making 
decisions on this state is futile. Also, acquire() can also return true 
when locking recursively, at least that's how I read the sources.

I think that this is really a bug, but it doesn't surface often because 
the built-in lock has its own _is_owned() function which is used instead 
of this flawed logic.

Uli



From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 08:31:20 2012
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 23:31:20 +1100
Subject: pydelicious documentation
In-Reply-To: <1349786675.2545.YahooMailNeo@web122004.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1349780773.63479.YahooMailNeo@web122001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<CAO+9iGeFAGNV0j8+-5iDfawBxF+VKsUPYLvev6EYhJbzmS_+BQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO+9iGeC15W9DRXztU235GOuVqsoEYmdRi2Pj9d0nyygNztEQg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1349786675.2545.YahooMailNeo@web122004.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGdOXhLWbQRLfRACODjov5KPACuoh_ZcU29oGdAh9Nn6MA@mail.gmail.com>

No worries, happy to help :)

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 11:44 PM, Andres Soto <soto_andres at yahoo.com> wrote:
> This one I didn't know
> Thanks you!
> Prof. Dr. Andr?s Soto
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6 at gmail.com>
> To: Andres Soto <soto_andres at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "python-list at python.org" <python-list at python.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 1:52 PM
> Subject: Re: pydelicious documentation
>
> Actually it seems this project has been official abandoned.
>
> Unofficially use this, was updated only a month ago:
> https://github.com/mgan59/python-pinboard
>
> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 10:47 PM, Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Professor Soto,
>>
>> Not sure what's going on with their servers', but I was able to find
>> the documentation on their repo:
>>
>> https://pydelicious.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/htmlref/index.html
>> https://pydelicious.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/htmlref/HACKING.html
>> https://pydelicious.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/htmlref/dlcs.html
>> https://pydelicious.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/htmlref/pydelicious.html
>>
>> Just save the files locally then open them in your browser.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Alec Taylor
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 10:06 PM, Andres Soto <soto_andres at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Does somebody know where I can get the documentation for pydelicious?
>>> The documentation links ("For code documentation see doc/pydelicious or
>>> doc/dlcs.py.") in http://packages.python.org/pydelicious/README.html#id3
>>> gave me
>>>
>>> 404 Not Found
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> nginx/1.1.19
>>>
>>> Prof. Dr. Andr?s Soto
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>
>
>


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Oct 10 08:47:36 2012
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 14:47:36 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Generating C++ code
In-Reply-To: <20121010063612.c555b79fb895cff61bb9b3aa@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <386669205.3507902.1349873256042.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>


> sorry but i don't get what you mean with a "MIPS on a SOC". Is not
> Python well supported on MIPS ?

Sorry, SOC means system on chip. The binary runs on the MIPS, there's no file system, no operanding system, except for one very basic task scheduler.

That's why everything is done at compile time.

JM


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 08:47:57 2012
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 13:47:57 +0100
Subject: Private methods
In-Reply-To: <5074b86b$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <1krpbz9.1wge3j11123k2vN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<mailman.1994.1349790529.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1krpdak.u0qy9e1a4knspN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<50742FD4.8030007@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2012.1349802524.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5074b86b$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <k53qpt$e7n$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/10/12 12:51 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 11:08:13 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 8:08 AM, Demian Brecht <demianbrecht at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> A single underscore semantically means private. A double underscore
>>> will name mangle the function such that it's only accessible strictly
>>> by name through the class that it's define in. Note that you *can*
>>> still access it if you understand how name mangling works. Nothing in
>>> Python is truly private.
>>
>> I tend to view name mangling as being more for avoiding internal
>> attribute collisions in complex inheritance structures than for
>> designating names as private.
>
> Really? I tend to view name mangling as a waste of time, and complex
> inheritance structures as something to avoid.

Whatever you may think of the use case, it was the motivating reason why it was 
put into the language:

http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html#reserved-classes-of-identifiers

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From roy at panix.com  Wed Oct 10 09:08:05 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 09:08:05 -0400
Subject: Private methods
References: <1krpbz9.1wge3j11123k2vN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<mailman.1994.1349790529.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1krpdak.u0qy9e1a4knspN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
Message-ID: <roy-48CB5E.09080510102012@news.panix.com>

In article 
<1krpdak.u0qy9e1a4knspN%real-not-anti-spam-address at apple-juice.co.uk>,
 real-not-anti-spam-address at apple-juice.co.uk (D.M. Procida) wrote:

> Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > On 09/10/2012 14:24, D.M. Procida wrote:
> > > What exactly is the point of a private method? Why or when would I want
> > > to use one?
> > >
> > > Daniele
> > >
> > 
> > Hardly a Python question but using a search engine could have got you
> > here, and rather faster :) 
> >
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2620699/why-private-methods-in-the-ob
> ject-oriented
> 
> Thanks. Sometimes I prefer to talk to real people on Usenet than do web
> searches. Just my preference.
> 
> Anyway, one of the answers on that page explains that public methods are
> interfaces to a class, that other things might rely on, and private ones
> are for its own internal logic, that other things don't need to care
> about.
> 
> In Python, using an underscore is simply a convention to note that a
> method is private - it doesn't actually hide it from other things -
> correct?

Yes (modulo some details of how import works that I've never fully 
figured out and which lack of knowledge hasn't seemed to have hurt me 
any).

I view public and private in Python this way:

Public: I hereby declare that this method or attribute is part of the 
promised never to change interface of this class.  I might possibly 
break that promise at some point in the future, but if I do, you have 
the right to bitch and whine about it, and I'm morally obligated to at 
least pretend I care.

Private: I hereby declare that this method or attribute is something I 
needed to have for my own purposes, and is officially hidden inside my 
kimono.  Like all things inside my kimono, you may speculate about their 
existence all you want, but you touch them at your own peril.  I may 
change them at some point in the future, and while you can bitch and 
whine about it all you want, I'm not listening.


From d at davea.name  Wed Oct 10 09:28:10 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 09:28:10 -0400
Subject: Delete duplicate rows in textfile - except it contains a "{"
	or "}"
In-Reply-To: <06b9cc41-b622-4574-b646-7f94c987de63@googlegroups.com>
References: <06b9cc41-b622-4574-b646-7f94c987de63@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <507577EA.5000700@davea.name>

On 10/10/2012 04:51 AM, Joon Ki Choi wrote:
> Hello Pythonistas,
>
> i have a very large textfile with contents like:
>
> @INBOOK{Ackermann1999-b,
>   author = {Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann,
> 	K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F.
> 	and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and
> 	Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann,
> 	K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F.
> 	and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and
> 	Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann,
> 	K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F.
> 	and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and
> 	Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann},
>   year = {1980},
>   timestamp = {1995-12-02}
> }	
>
> And i want to delete the duplicate rows except these rows containing the brackets { or }. 
> The result should look like:
>
> @INBOOK{Ackermann1999-b,
>   author = {Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann,
> 	Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann},
>   year = {1980},
>   timestamp = {1995-12-02}
> }

Which is it?  Do you want to match your output, or match your
description?  Your description would result in:

@INBOOK{Ackermann1999-b,
  author = {Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann,
	K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F.
	and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and
	Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann,
	Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann, K.-F. and Ackermann},
  year = {1980},
  timestamp = {1995-12-02}
}	

(that's doing it by eyeball, so i may have missed some minor differences)



-- 

DaveA



From joon.ch at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 09:51:54 2012
From: joon.ch at gmail.com (Joon Ki Choi)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 15:51:54 +0200
Subject: Delete duplicate rows in textfile - except it contains a "{" or
	"}"
In-Reply-To: <507577EA.5000700@davea.name>
References: <06b9cc41-b622-4574-b646-7f94c987de63@googlegroups.com>
	<507577EA.5000700@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CAESLGQkuo1njaTLk8tZysp_=EQZed0Sd+M+KFX64NtmuJ7RNHA@mail.gmail.com>

lines_seen = set() # holds lines already seen
outfile = open("literatur_clean.txt", "w")
for line in open("literatur_dupl.txt", "r"):
    if ('{' in line or '}' in line) or line not in lines_seen:
        outfile.write(line)
        lines_seen.add(line)
outfile.close()


From andriy.kornatskyy at live.com  Wed Oct 10 10:05:08 2012
From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com (Andriy Kornatskyy)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 17:05:08 +0300
Subject: Python Web Routing Benchmark
Message-ID: <DUB117-W55741938987B5B6ACB206918E0@phx.gbl>


How fast web frameworks process routing (URL dispatch)?
?
Here is a benchmark for various web frameworks (bottle, django, flask, pyramid, tornado and wheezy.web) running the following routing: static, dynamic, SEO and missing... with a trivial 'hello world' application (all routes are pointing to the same handler).

http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/10/python-web-routing-benchmark.html
?
Benchmark is executed in isolated environment using CPython 2.7. Source is here:

https://bitbucket.org/akorn/helloworld/src/tip/02-routing
?
Comments or suggestions are welcome.
?
Thanks.
?
Andriy Kornatskyy
 		 	   		  

From torriem at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 10:15:16 2012
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:15:16 -0600
Subject: Generating C++ code
In-Reply-To: <594985467.3115693.1349798400166.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
References: <594985467.3115693.1349798400166.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <507582F4.2070105@gmail.com>

On 10/09/2012 10:00 AM, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> I'm trying to generate C++ code from an XML file. I'd like to use a template engine, which imo produce something readable and maintainable.
> My google search about this subject has been quite unsuccessful, I've been redirected to template engine specific to html mostly.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated.

There are two ways I can see to do this.

One is to use XSLT.  XML is designed to be transformed easily, and XSLT
is the standard vehicle to do this transformation.  You can use XSLT to
translate an XML document to HTML, for example, or to another schema of
XML, or to something non-XML like plain text, Tex, or even C++ code.
XSLT itself is turing complete, so complicated, logical transformations
are possible.  Since I know of no existing transformation templates for
emitting C++, or any other language, you'll have to write it yourself.
Yes it won't be python code per se, though you can drive the XML XSLT
engine from python using a module called lxml.  Anyway, XSLT is
complicated (I have done nothing in it myself), but it is designed for
this kind of thing.

Secondly, you could just use a python XML module of some kind, read the
document in, traverse the nodes and emit code.  This is basic compiler
theory, though your source code is likely already in an abstract syntax
tree (XML).  And I bet you could make it one pass, as you can rely on
the compiler to check symbol names for you.  Compilers are not simple
beasts, but they are fun to write, and very educational.  You get to
learn about grammars and recursive descent parsing (though the XML
library basically does both for you).



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Wed Oct 10 10:16:35 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 14:16:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Generating C++ code
References: <20121009165226.13e5f3040b636e280f0ab2f6@gmail.com>
	<596686195.3370358.1349863190132.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<mailman.2025.1349865370.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k54003$h2g$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-10, Etienne Robillard <animelovin at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 11:59:50 +0200 (CEST)
> Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, the C++ code will end up running on a MIPS on a SOC,
>> unfortunately, python is not an option here.  The xml to C++ makes a
>> lot of sense, because only a small part of the code is generated that
>> way (everything related to log & fatal events). Everything else is
>> written directly in C++.
>
> sorry but i don't get what you mean with a "MIPS on a SOC". Is not
> Python well supported on MIPS ?

SoC == System On a Chip.

It's a single-chip micro-controller embedded inside something that's
not a general purpose computer (e.g. it's in a router, or piece of
industrial equipment, or whatever). It may only have a couple MB of
memory, it might have only a minimal RTOS (non-Linux/Unix,
non-Windows), or it may actually have no OS at all.  It almost
certainly doesn't have a hard drive.

Many years ago, there was a "deeply embedded Python" project that was
attempting to get Python running on such platforms, but it's been
abandoned for ages.  IIRC, it was using Python 1.50 as a base version.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! My vaseline is
                                  at               RUNNING...
                              gmail.com            


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	=?UTF-8?Q?om=29?=
Message-ID: <1210a081-dfb2-44c9-8c66-8223493edfb8@lb2g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>

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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Oct 10 11:05:20 2012
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 17:05:20 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Generating C++ code
In-Reply-To: <k54003$h2g$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <841902358.3574200.1349881520503.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>

----- Original Message -----
> On 2012-10-10, Etienne Robillard <animelovin at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 11:59:50 +0200 (CEST)
> > Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Well, the C++ code will end up running on a MIPS on a SOC,
> >> unfortunately, python is not an option here.  The xml to C++ makes
> >> a
> >> lot of sense, because only a small part of the code is generated
> >> that
> >> way (everything related to log & fatal events). Everything else is
> >> written directly in C++.
> >
> > sorry but i don't get what you mean with a "MIPS on a SOC". Is not
> > Python well supported on MIPS ?
> 
> SoC == System On a Chip.
> 
> It's a single-chip micro-controller embedded inside something that's
> not a general purpose computer (e.g. it's in a router, or piece of
> industrial equipment, or whatever). It may only have a couple MB of
> memory, it might have only a minimal RTOS (non-Linux/Unix,
> non-Windows), or it may actually have no OS at all.  It almost
> certainly doesn't have a hard drive.
> 
> Many years ago, there was a "deeply embedded Python" project that was
> attempting to get Python running on such platforms, but it's been
> abandoned for ages.  IIRC, it was using Python 1.50 as a base
> version.
> 
> --
> Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! My vaseline
> is
>                                   at               RUNNING...
>                               gmail.com

Have a look at http://code.google.com/p/python-on-a-chip/
Last news on 2011/09/26, I'm not sure the project is still alive.

JM


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Wed Oct 10 11:34:57 2012
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 17:34:57 +0200
Subject: Generating C++ code
In-Reply-To: <841902358.3574200.1349881520503.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
References: <k54003$h2g$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<841902358.3574200.1349881520503.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <k544j0$e3p$1@ger.gmane.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant, 10.10.2012 17:05:
>> SoC == System On a Chip.
>>
>> It's a single-chip micro-controller embedded inside something that's
>> not a general purpose computer (e.g. it's in a router, or piece of
>> industrial equipment, or whatever). It may only have a couple MB of
>> memory, it might have only a minimal RTOS (non-Linux/Unix,
>> non-Windows), or it may actually have no OS at all.  It almost
>> certainly doesn't have a hard drive.
>>
>> Many years ago, there was a "deeply embedded Python" project that was
>> attempting to get Python running on such platforms, but it's been
>> abandoned for ages.  IIRC, it was using Python 1.50 as a base
>> version.
>>
>> Grant Edwards
> 
> Have a look at http://code.google.com/p/python-on-a-chip/
> Last news on 2011/09/26, I'm not sure the project is still alive.

For FLOSS projects, it's usually better to look at the revision history,
which, in this case, names September 3 as last entry, *this* year.

Pretty much alive, I'd say.

Stefan




From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 11:56:57 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:56:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Private methods
In-Reply-To: <roy-48CB5E.09080510102012@news.panix.com>
References: <1krpbz9.1wge3j11123k2vN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<mailman.1994.1349790529.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1krpdak.u0qy9e1a4knspN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<roy-48CB5E.09080510102012@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <490af038-a719-4f1e-aa76-dac96efb6b71@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, 10 October 2012 18:38:04 UTC+5:30, Roy Smith  wrote:
> In article 
> 
> <1krpdak.u0qy9e1a4knspN%real-not-anti-spam-address at apple-juice.co.uk>,
> 
>  real-not-anti-spam-address at apple-juice.co.uk (D.M. Procida) wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > > On 09/10/2012 14:24, D.M. Procida wrote:
> 
> > > > What exactly is the point of a private method? Why or when would I want
> 
> > > > to use one?
> 
> > > >
> 
> > > > Daniele
> 
> > > >
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > Hardly a Python question but using a search engine could have got you
> 
> > > here, and rather faster :) 
> 
> > >
> 
> > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2620699/why-private-methods-in-the-ob
> 
> > ject-oriented
> 
> > 
> 
> > Thanks. Sometimes I prefer to talk to real people on Usenet than do web
> 
> > searches. Just my preference.
> 
> > 
> 
> > Anyway, one of the answers on that page explains that public methods are
> 
> > interfaces to a class, that other things might rely on, and private ones
> 
> > are for its own internal logic, that other things don't need to care
> 
> > about.
> 
> > 
> 
> > In Python, using an underscore is simply a convention to note that a
> 
> > method is private - it doesn't actually hide it from other things -
> 
> > correct?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes (modulo some details of how import works that I've never fully 
> 
> figured out and which lack of knowledge hasn't seemed to have hurt me 
> 
> any).
> 
> 
> 
> I view public and private in Python this way:
> 
> 
> 
> Public: I hereby declare that this method or attribute is part of the 
> 
> promised never to change interface of this class.  I might possibly 
> 
> break that promise at some point in the future, but if I do, you have 
> 
> the right to bitch and whine about it, and I'm morally obligated to at 
> 
> least pretend I care.
> 
> 
> 
> Private: I hereby declare that this method or attribute is something I 
> 
> needed to have for my own purposes, and is officially hidden inside my 
> 
> kimono.  Like all things inside my kimono, you may speculate about their 
> 
> existence all you want, but you touch them at your own peril.  I may 
> 
> change them at some point in the future, and while you can bitch and 
> 
> whine about it all you want, I'm not listening.

Uhum. Language please.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 10 12:13:44 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 17:13:44 +0100
Subject: Private methods
In-Reply-To: <490af038-a719-4f1e-aa76-dac96efb6b71@googlegroups.com>
References: <1krpbz9.1wge3j11123k2vN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<mailman.1994.1349790529.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1krpdak.u0qy9e1a4knspN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<roy-48CB5E.09080510102012@news.panix.com>
	<490af038-a719-4f1e-aa76-dac96efb6b71@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k546rc$79c$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/10/2012 16:56, Ramchandra Apte wrote:
> On Wednesday, 10 October 2012 18:38:04 UTC+5:30, Roy Smith  wrote:
>> Public: I hereby declare that this method or attribute is part of the
>> promised never to change interface of this class.  I might possibly
>> break that promise at some point in the future, but if I do, you have
>> the right to bitch and whine about it, and I'm morally obligated to at
>> least pretend I care.
>>
>> Private: I hereby declare that this method or attribute is something I
>> needed to have for my own purposes, and is officially hidden inside my
>> kimono.  Like all things inside my kimono, you may speculate about their
>> existence all you want, but you touch them at your own peril.  I may
>> change them at some point in the future, and while you can bitch and
>> whine about it all you want, I'm not listening.
>
> Uhum. Language please.
>

What language?  Further the original was readable, your use of CrapMail 
made life difficult until I stripped the superfluous newlines out.  Is 
it really so awkward to equip yourself with a semi-decent mail reader? 
Like Thunderbird, hint, hint :)

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Wed Oct 10 12:30:42 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 16:30:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Private methods
References: <1krpbz9.1wge3j11123k2vN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<mailman.1994.1349790529.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1krpdak.u0qy9e1a4knspN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<roy-48CB5E.09080510102012@news.panix.com>
	<490af038-a719-4f1e-aa76-dac96efb6b71@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2037.1349885626.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k547ri$h7v$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-10, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 10/10/2012 16:56, Ramchandra Apte wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 10 October 2012 18:38:04 UTC+5:30, Roy Smith  wrote:
>>> Public: I hereby declare that this method or attribute is part of the
>>> promised never to change interface of this class.  I might possibly
>>> break that promise at some point in the future, but if I do, you have
>>> the right to bitch and whine about it, and I'm morally obligated to at
>>> least pretend I care.
>>>
>>> Private: I hereby declare that this method or attribute is something I
>>> needed to have for my own purposes, and is officially hidden inside my
>>> kimono.  Like all things inside my kimono, you may speculate about their
>>> existence all you want, but you touch them at your own peril.  I may
>>> change them at some point in the future, and while you can bitch and
>>> whine about it all you want, I'm not listening.
>>
>> Uhum. Language please.
>
> What language?

Perhaps he didn't like the kimono metaphor?

I always though the kimono metaphore as commonly used by MBA/sales
types was a little unseemly (but then most of what those types say is,
regardless of language or metaphor).

> Further the original was readable, your use of CrapMail made life
> difficult until I stripped the superfluous newlines out.  Is it
> really so awkward to equip yourself with a semi-decent mail reader?
> Like Thunderbird, hint, hint :)

You're tilting at windmills.

Just give up and filter out all postings with a messageid ending in
'@googlegroups.com'.  I find that solves all sorts of problems...

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! !  Now I understand
                                  at               advanced MICROBIOLOGY and
                              gmail.com            th' new TAX REFORM laws!!


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 15:21:10 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 13:21:10 -0600
Subject: an error in python lib?
In-Reply-To: <nl5gk9-0t5.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <CAAGqYJ22hAdr3-UVeXM_TEwfP_uGu8JoCdh_LHjWOyH2cRphwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2019.1349831812.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<nl5gk9-0t5.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <CALwzidm6ouGh-VSunL=8E7CzY0d7gThvGu-in9cu01kNY6qTkA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 6:18 AM, Ulrich Eckhardt
<ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com> wrote:
>> The .acquire method will return True if the attempt to acquire has been
>> successful. This can occur only if it is not currently owned.
>
>
> The comment clearly states "owned by current thread", not "owned by any
> thread". The latter would also be useless, as that can change concurrently
> at any time when owned by a different thread, so making decisions on this
> state is futile.

If you're correct, then the bug runs deeper than simply swapping the
return values.  If the first case returned True instead of False, then
it would be returning True when the lock is not owned by any thread.

> Also, acquire() can also return true when locking
> recursively, at least that's how I read the sources.

Python 2.7.1 (r271:86832, Nov 27 2010, 18:30:46) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from threading import Lock
>>> lock = Lock()
>>> lock.acquire(0)
True
>>> lock.acquire(0)
False

> I think that this is really a bug, but it doesn't surface often because the
> built-in lock has its own _is_owned() function which is used instead of this
> flawed logic.

Can you demonstrate an API bug that is caused by this?


From jtim.arnold at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 15:23:31 2012
From: jtim.arnold at gmail.com (Tim)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 12:23:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: communicate with external process via pty
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2021.1349852334.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <k51uri$kqq$1@foggy.unx.sas.com>
	<mailman.2021.1349852334.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e57b802e-baa2-47f3-9b86-afe93beb34d9@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 2:58:55 AM UTC-4, Peter Otten wrote:
> Tim Arnold wrote:
> 

> > import os,sys
> > import subprocess
> > import shlex
> > import pty
> > cmd =  'tralics --interactivemath'
> > (master, slave) = pty.openpty()
> > p = subprocess.Popen(shlex.split(cmd),close_fds=True,
> >                       stdin=slave,stdout=slave,stderr=slave)
> > 
> > os.read(master,1024)                # start the process
> > os.write(master,'$\sqrt{x}$\n')     # feed it an equation
> > mathml.append(os.read(master,1024)) # get the mathml in a string
> > os.write(master,'$\sqrt{x}$\n')     # feed more equations
> > mathml.append(os.read(master,1024)) # get the next string
> 
> 
> Do you know about pexpect?
> 
> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pexpect

Thanks Peter. I knew of it, but hadn't tried it. I've been playing with it today and I think it should work fine for my project.  With some help from stackoverflow, this seems to do what I need:

import pexpect
c = pexpect.spawn('tralics --interactivemath')
c.expect('>')

c.sendline('$x+y=z$')
c.expect("<formula.*formula>")
print c.math.group()

c.expect('>')
c.sendline('$a+b=c$')
c.expect("<formula.*formula>")
print c.math.group()
etc.

thanks, 
--Tim




From jtim.arnold at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 15:23:31 2012
From: jtim.arnold at gmail.com (Tim)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 12:23:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: communicate with external process via pty
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2021.1349852334.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <k51uri$kqq$1@foggy.unx.sas.com>
	<mailman.2021.1349852334.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e57b802e-baa2-47f3-9b86-afe93beb34d9@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 2:58:55 AM UTC-4, Peter Otten wrote:
> Tim Arnold wrote:
> 

> > import os,sys
> > import subprocess
> > import shlex
> > import pty
> > cmd =  'tralics --interactivemath'
> > (master, slave) = pty.openpty()
> > p = subprocess.Popen(shlex.split(cmd),close_fds=True,
> >                       stdin=slave,stdout=slave,stderr=slave)
> > 
> > os.read(master,1024)                # start the process
> > os.write(master,'$\sqrt{x}$\n')     # feed it an equation
> > mathml.append(os.read(master,1024)) # get the mathml in a string
> > os.write(master,'$\sqrt{x}$\n')     # feed more equations
> > mathml.append(os.read(master,1024)) # get the next string
> 
> 
> Do you know about pexpect?
> 
> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pexpect

Thanks Peter. I knew of it, but hadn't tried it. I've been playing with it today and I think it should work fine for my project.  With some help from stackoverflow, this seems to do what I need:

import pexpect
c = pexpect.spawn('tralics --interactivemath')
c.expect('>')

c.sendline('$x+y=z$')
c.expect("<formula.*formula>")
print c.math.group()

c.expect('>')
c.sendline('$a+b=c$')
c.expect("<formula.*formula>")
print c.math.group()
etc.

thanks, 
--Tim




From theweddingbutler at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 16:28:41 2012
From: theweddingbutler at gmail.com (John Cook)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 13:28:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hello, We are looking for a qualified Sr. Python Developer for a job
	position in Bethesda, MD.
Message-ID: <dfe9c50f-8cc8-4101-873b-a17305638828@googlegroups.com>

Please let me know, if you might want to consider this progressive job opportunity and discuss the position details.

Thank you for the thoughts.

Regards,

John Cook
Team Recruiting Services

Terra Health, Inc
5710 W. Hausman, Ste 108 
San Antonio, TX 78249
P-210.424.4017
F-210.582.0084
C-210.823.6522
jcook at thi-terra.com
  


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 21:34:01 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 18:34:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Private methods
References: <1krpbz9.1wge3j11123k2vN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<mailman.1994.1349790529.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1krpdak.u0qy9e1a4knspN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<50742FD4.8030007@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2012.1349802524.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5074b86b$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2016.1349828799.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1krqopm.19fo57y1wri8yaN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
Message-ID: <aced18f9-785e-4bb6-a403-2203044a4ec7@p5g2000pbs.googlegroups.com>

On 10 Oct, 17:03, real-not-anti-spam-addr... at apple-juice.co.uk (D.M.
Procida) wrote:
> It certainly makes it quick to build a class with the attributes I need,
> but it does make tracing logic sometimes a pain in the neck.
>
> I don't know what the alternative is though.

Components.

The examples are in C++ and it's about game development, but I found
this article to be very good at explaining the approach:
http://gameprogrammingpatterns.com/component.html

I've become a big fan of components & adaptation using zope.interface:
http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/ZopeGuideComponents


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 21:39:29 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 18:39:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Private methods
References: <1krpbz9.1wge3j11123k2vN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<mailman.1994.1349790529.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1krpdak.u0qy9e1a4knspN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<roy-48CB5E.09080510102012@news.panix.com>
	<490af038-a719-4f1e-aa76-dac96efb6b71@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2037.1349885626.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9352b4aa-db42-4a0f-a006-96b83aca9b49@wm7g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>

On 11 Oct, 02:14, Mark Lawrence <breamore... at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> What language?

I think he's objecting to "bitch".

I had to block him on G+ because he kept asking me to self-censor
posts that he had _chosen to read_.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Oct 10 22:08:55 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 11 Oct 2012 02:08:55 GMT
Subject: Private methods
References: <1krpbz9.1wge3j11123k2vN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<mailman.1994.1349790529.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1krpdak.u0qy9e1a4knspN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<50742FD4.8030007@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2012.1349802524.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5074b86b$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2016.1349828799.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1krqopm.19fo57y1wri8yaN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<aced18f9-785e-4bb6-a403-2203044a4ec7@p5g2000pbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50762a37$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 18:34:01 -0700, alex23 wrote:

> On 10 Oct, 17:03, real-not-anti-spam-addr... at apple-juice.co.uk (D.M.
> Procida) wrote:
>> It certainly makes it quick to build a class with the attributes I
>> need, but it does make tracing logic sometimes a pain in the neck.
>>
>> I don't know what the alternative is though.
> 
> Components.

Composition. Delegation. Traits. Prototypes.

Inheritance is great, but it is not a solution to everything.


-- 
Steven


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Wed Oct 10 23:11:19 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 20:11:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Private methods
In-Reply-To: <1krpbz9.1wge3j11123k2vN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
References: <1krpbz9.1wge3j11123k2vN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a004b946-01d6-4e7c-96ad-c0a873f1b0c4@googlegroups.com>

D.M. Procida? 2012?10?9????UTC+8??9?24?30????
> What exactly is the point of a private method? Why or when would I want
> 

Private methods in the object level are searched first 
in the run time of python interpreter. 

I did turn some private methods in to c programs from time to time.

 
 



From timr at probo.com  Wed Oct 10 23:12:36 2012
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 20:12:36 -0700
Subject: Generating C++ code
References: <781541733.3114900.1349797969037.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<mailman.2008.1349798449.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <s6ec78h5iq43h3vv6t9lqmohb5ej8pafhv@4ax.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:
>
>I'm trying to generate C++ code from an XML file. I'd like to use a template engine, which imo produce something readable and maintainable.
>My google search about this subject has been quite unsuccessful, I've been redirected to template engine specific to html mostly.
>
>Does anybody knows a python template engine for generating C++ code ?

I'm a big fan of Cheetah.  It's simple but flexible enough to be useful.
Besides the many web projects I've done with it, I also I use it in one
project to generate PHP code (it generates data access objects from a live
database schema).
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From satorulogic at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 23:33:16 2012
From: satorulogic at gmail.com (Satoru Logic)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 20:33:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is `wsample` a proper name for a function like this?
Message-ID: <1326bd8c-4523-4712-be27-ab78189db735@googlegroups.com>

I came across a function named `wsample` in a `utils` package of my workplace recently.

The "w" in `wsample` stands for `weighted`, and it randomly selects an element from a container according to relative weights of all the elements.

In most articles and codes I saw online, a function like this is often named `weighted_random_choice`, which sounds *correct* to me.
So when I saw this `wsample` function, I considered it a improper name.
Because `wsample`makes me think of `random.sample`, which returns a list of randomly generated elements, not a element.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Oct 11 00:33:35 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 00:33:35 -0400
Subject: Is `wsample` a proper name for a function like this?
In-Reply-To: <1326bd8c-4523-4712-be27-ab78189db735@googlegroups.com>
References: <1326bd8c-4523-4712-be27-ab78189db735@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k55i7k$dtq$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/10/2012 11:33 PM, Satoru Logic wrote:
> I came across a function named `wsample` in a `utils` package of my
> workplace recently.
>
> The "w" in `wsample` stands for `weighted`, and it randomly selects
> an element from a container according to relative weights of all the
> elements.

I agree that wt_select for weighted select might be better for a sample 
size of 1 ;-).

> In most articles and codes I saw online, a function like this is
> often named `weighted_random_choice`, which sounds *correct* to me.

Easier to understand, at least the first time, harder to write. Be glad 
the author did not use 'ws' as would have once been common.

> So when I saw this `wsample` function, I considered it a improper
> name. Because `wsample`makes me think of `random.sample`, which
> returns a list of randomly generated elements, not a element.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 00:42:14 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 21:42:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is `wsample` a proper name for a function like this?
References: <1326bd8c-4523-4712-be27-ab78189db735@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <18aa70b7-d12f-4586-9b47-30e9a84ae0d3@c6g2000pba.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 11, 1:33?pm, Satoru Logic <satorulo... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I came across a function named `wsample` in a `utils` package
> of my workplace recently.
>
> The "w" in `wsample` stands for `weighted`, and it randomly
> selects an element from a container according to relative
> weights of all the elements.
>
> So when I saw this `wsample` function, I considered it a improper name.

I tend to agree. I like descriptive names for functions that don't
assume familiarity. If you're unhappy with a function's name and
you're unable to modify the module it belongs to, you can always
rebind it yourself:

    from utils import wsample as weighted_random_choice

If I'm then going to use that function heavily elsewhere, I _might_
rebind it, but always within the scope that is going to use the
abbreviated binding:

    wrc = weighted_random_choice
    <lots of lines of code using wrc>


From dieter at handshake.de  Thu Oct 11 02:04:50 2012
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 08:04:50 +0200
Subject: Private methods
References: <1krpbz9.1wge3j11123k2vN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<mailman.1994.1349790529.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1krpdak.u0qy9e1a4knspN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<50742FD4.8030007@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2012.1349802524.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5074b86b$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2016.1349828799.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1krqopm.19fo57y1wri8yaN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-juice.co.uk>
	<aced18f9-785e-4bb6-a403-2203044a4ec7@p5g2000pbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87haq1wnlp.fsf@handshake.de>

alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> writes:

> On 10 Oct, 17:03, real-not-anti-spam-addr... at apple-juice.co.uk (D.M.
> Procida) wrote:
>> It certainly makes it quick to build a class with the attributes I need,
>> but it does make tracing logic sometimes a pain in the neck.
>>
>> I don't know what the alternative is though.
>
> Components.
>
> The examples are in C++ and it's about game development, but I found
> this article to be very good at explaining the approach:
> http://gameprogrammingpatterns.com/component.html
>
> I've become a big fan of components & adaptation using zope.interface:
> http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/ZopeGuideComponents

If multiple inheritance is deemed complex, adaptation is even more so:

  With multiple inheritance, you can quite easily see from the source
  code how things are put together.
  Adaptation follows the "inversion of control" principle. With this
  principle, how a function is implemented, is decided outside
  and can very easily be changed (e.g. through configuration).
  This gives great flexibility but also nightmares when things do
  not work as expected...



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct 11 02:29:37 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 11 Oct 2012 06:29:37 GMT
Subject: Is `wsample` a proper name for a function like this?
References: <1326bd8c-4523-4712-be27-ab78189db735@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50766751$0$6512$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 20:33:16 -0700, Satoru Logic wrote:

> I came across a function named `wsample` in a `utils` package of my
> workplace recently.
> 
> The "w" in `wsample` stands for `weighted`, and it randomly selects an
> element from a container according to relative weights of all the
> elements.
> 
> In most articles and codes I saw online, a function like this is often
> named `weighted_random_choice`, which sounds *correct* to me. So when I
> saw this `wsample` function, I considered it a improper name. Because
> `wsample`makes me think of `random.sample`, which returns a list of
> randomly generated elements, not a element.

You can have a sample size of one.

wsample sounds fine to me. weighted_random_choice is okay too. It depends 
whether you value brevity over explicitness. Explicit is good, but some 
names are just too long.

If this were my code base, I would probably go for weighted_sample 
without mentioning "random" in the name, the reasoning being that samples 
are almost always random so explicitly saying so doesn't help much.


-- 
Steven


From satorulogic at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 02:44:42 2012
From: satorulogic at gmail.com (suzaku)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 23:44:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is `wsample` a proper name for a function like this?
In-Reply-To: <50766751$0$6512$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <1326bd8c-4523-4712-be27-ab78189db735@googlegroups.com>
	<50766751$0$6512$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <3e07a789-5809-49f9-82e1-4ab904ce7481@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 11, 2012 2:29:37 PM UTC+8, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 20:33:16 -0700, Satoru Logic wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > I came across a function named `wsample` in a `utils` package of my
> 
> > workplace recently.
> 
> > 
> 
> > The "w" in `wsample` stands for `weighted`, and it randomly selects an
> 
> > element from a container according to relative weights of all the
> 
> > elements.
> 
> > 
> 
> > In most articles and codes I saw online, a function like this is often
> 
> > named `weighted_random_choice`, which sounds *correct* to me. So when I
> 
> > saw this `wsample` function, I considered it a improper name. Because
> 
> > `wsample`makes me think of `random.sample`, which returns a list of
> 
> > randomly generated elements, not a element.
> 
> 
> 
> You can have a sample size of one.
> 
> 
> 
> wsample sounds fine to me. weighted_random_choice is okay too. It depends 
> 
> whether you value brevity over explicitness. Explicit is good, but some 
> 
> names are just too long.
> 
> 
> 
> If this were my code base, I would probably go for weighted_sample 
> 
> without mentioning "random" in the name, the reasoning being that samples 
> 
> are almost always random so explicitly saying so doesn't help much.

I think if a programmer has used the built-in `random` module before, he would expect a function with "sample" in its name to return a population sequence.

If a function is to return scalar value instead of sequence, I would expect it to be named "choice".

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Steven



From animelovin at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 06:00:47 2012
From: animelovin at gmail.com (Etienne Robillard)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 06:00:47 -0400
Subject: Generating C++ code
In-Reply-To: <s6ec78h5iq43h3vv6t9lqmohb5ej8pafhv@4ax.com>
References: <781541733.3114900.1349797969037.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<mailman.2008.1349798449.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<s6ec78h5iq43h3vv6t9lqmohb5ej8pafhv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20121011060047.cca9ab833874fe638f934736@gmail.com>

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 20:12:36 -0700
Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote:

> Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:
> >
> >I'm trying to generate C++ code from an XML file. I'd like to use a template engine, which imo produce something readable and maintainable.
> >My google search about this subject has been quite unsuccessful, I've been redirected to template engine specific to html mostly.
> >
> >Does anybody knows a python template engine for generating C++ code ?
> 
> I'm a big fan of Cheetah.  It's simple but flexible enough to be useful.
> Besides the many web projects I've done with it, I also I use it in one
> project to generate PHP code (it generates data access objects from a live
> database schema).
> -- 
> Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
> Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Also take a look at IDL, for a proper way to handle interface generation in C++. No python or cheetah
required as by definition your interfaces should be portable. What your describing is more or less look
like a hack or something which would be a pain to maintain without SWIG or something more suited for
this purposes than XML. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interface_description_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWIG


From gvanem at broadpark.no  Thu Oct 11 07:24:22 2012
From: gvanem at broadpark.no (Gisle Vanem)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 13:24:22 +0200
Subject: for-loop on cmd-line
Message-ID: <E7295A9F2EFF4FD0A64C1225370AAC56@dev.null>

Hello list. I'm a newbie when it comes to Python.

I'm trying to turn this:

 def print_sys_path():
    i = 0
    for p in sys.path:
      print ('sys.path[%2d]: %s' % (i, p))
      i += 1

into a one-line python command (in a .bat file):

  python -c "import sys,os; i=0; for p in sys.path: print('sys.path[%%2d]: %%s' %% (i, p)); i+=1"

But:
  File "<string>", line 1
    import sys,os; i=0; for p in sys.path: print('sys.path[%2d]: %s' % (i, p)); i+=1
                          ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

The caret is on the 'for'. What's the problem?

--gv


From satorulogic at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 07:50:57 2012
From: satorulogic at gmail.com (suzaku)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 04:50:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: for-loop on cmd-line
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2043.1349954670.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2043.1349954670.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0656c8ec-07ef-4ff2-a43b-50caed6bb136@googlegroups.com>

According to the document (http://docs.python.org/using/cmdline.html#interface-options),
> When called with -c command, it executes the Python statement(s) given as command. Here command may contain multiple statements separated by newlines. Leading whitespace is significant in Python statements!

So you should replace the semicolon with newline.

BTW, the loop can be simplified using `enumerate` like this:

   for i, p in enumerate(sys.path):
     

On Thursday, October 11, 2012 7:24:31 PM UTC+8, Gisle Vanem wrote:
> Hello list. I'm a newbie when it comes to Python.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying to turn this:
> 
> 
> 
>  def print_sys_path():
> 
>     i = 0
> 
>     for p in sys.path:
> 
>       print ('sys.path[%2d]: %s' % (i, p))
> 
>       i += 1
> 
> 
> 
> into a one-line python command (in a .bat file):
> 
> 
> 
>   python -c "import sys,os; i=0; for p in sys.path: print('sys.path[%%2d]: %%s' %% (i, p)); i+=1"
> 
> 
> 
> But:
> 
>   File "<string>", line 1
> 
>     import sys,os; i=0; for p in sys.path: print('sys.path[%2d]: %s' % (i, p)); i+=1
> 
>                           ^
> 
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> 
> 
> 
> The caret is on the 'for'. What's the problem?
> 
> 
> 
> --gv


From satorulogic at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 07:50:57 2012
From: satorulogic at gmail.com (suzaku)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 04:50:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: for-loop on cmd-line
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2043.1349954670.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2043.1349954670.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0656c8ec-07ef-4ff2-a43b-50caed6bb136@googlegroups.com>

According to the document (http://docs.python.org/using/cmdline.html#interface-options),
> When called with -c command, it executes the Python statement(s) given as command. Here command may contain multiple statements separated by newlines. Leading whitespace is significant in Python statements!

So you should replace the semicolon with newline.

BTW, the loop can be simplified using `enumerate` like this:

   for i, p in enumerate(sys.path):
     

On Thursday, October 11, 2012 7:24:31 PM UTC+8, Gisle Vanem wrote:
> Hello list. I'm a newbie when it comes to Python.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying to turn this:
> 
> 
> 
>  def print_sys_path():
> 
>     i = 0
> 
>     for p in sys.path:
> 
>       print ('sys.path[%2d]: %s' % (i, p))
> 
>       i += 1
> 
> 
> 
> into a one-line python command (in a .bat file):
> 
> 
> 
>   python -c "import sys,os; i=0; for p in sys.path: print('sys.path[%%2d]: %%s' %% (i, p)); i+=1"
> 
> 
> 
> But:
> 
>   File "<string>", line 1
> 
>     import sys,os; i=0; for p in sys.path: print('sys.path[%2d]: %s' % (i, p)); i+=1
> 
>                           ^
> 
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> 
> 
> 
> The caret is on the 'for'. What's the problem?
> 
> 
> 
> --gv


From d at davea.name  Thu Oct 11 07:54:33 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 07:54:33 -0400
Subject: for-loop on cmd-line
In-Reply-To: <E7295A9F2EFF4FD0A64C1225370AAC56@dev.null>
References: <E7295A9F2EFF4FD0A64C1225370AAC56@dev.null>
Message-ID: <5076B379.4010503@davea.name>

On 10/11/2012 07:24 AM, Gisle Vanem wrote:
> Hello list. I'm a newbie when it comes to Python.
>
> I'm trying to turn this:
>
> def print_sys_path():
>    i = 0
>    for p in sys.path:
>      print ('sys.path[%2d]: %s' % (i, p))
>      i += 1
>
> into a one-line python command (in a .bat file):
>
>  python -c "import sys,os; i=0; for p in sys.path:
> print('sys.path[%%2d]: %%s' %% (i, p)); i+=1"
>
> But:
>  File "<string>", line 1
>    import sys,os; i=0; for p in sys.path: print('sys.path[%2d]: %s' %
> (i, p)); i+=1
>                          ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> The caret is on the 'for'. What's the problem?

>
> --gv

it has nothing to do with being on a command line.  You're using
semicolon to combine several statements, and there are restrictions on
what can be combined that way.  One restriction is the looping
constructs, for, if, while.

Try experimenting with a standard program, to see what can be combined
and what cannot.

You can do it easily enough with a list comprehension.  Let us know if
you can't work that out.

By the way, much cleaner than defining your own counting variable is to
use enumerate().

Any reason why you don't just make a one-file python script, and run
that instead of your one line batch file?  Or is this line one of many
in the batch file?

-- 

DaveA




From darcy at druid.net  Thu Oct 11 08:16:07 2012
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 08:16:07 -0400
Subject: for-loop on cmd-line
In-Reply-To: <E7295A9F2EFF4FD0A64C1225370AAC56@dev.null>
References: <E7295A9F2EFF4FD0A64C1225370AAC56@dev.null>
Message-ID: <20121011081607.46014e3d@dilbert>

On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 13:24:22 +0200
Gisle Vanem <gvanem at broadpark.no> wrote:

> Hello list. I'm a newbie when it comes to Python.
> 
> I'm trying to turn this:
> 
>  def print_sys_path():
>     i = 0
>     for p in sys.path:
>       print ('sys.path[%2d]: %s' % (i, p))
>       i += 1
> 
> into a one-line python command (in a .bat file):

Is "one liner" an actual requirement or is the requirement to run it
from the command line?

python -c "
import sys
i = 0
for p in sys.path:
  print('sys.path[%2d]: %s' % (i, p))
  i+=1
"

I don't know if this works on Windows or not.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.
IM: darcy at Vex.Net


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 09:14:11 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 00:14:11 +1100
Subject: for-loop on cmd-line
In-Reply-To: <20121011081607.46014e3d@dilbert>
References: <E7295A9F2EFF4FD0A64C1225370AAC56@dev.null>
	<20121011081607.46014e3d@dilbert>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp_74ueQZyQ3yQrBUmBd8JtaftU4mPg1rYgN75LV3umxg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 11:16 PM, D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 13:24:22 +0200
> Gisle Vanem <gvanem at broadpark.no> wrote:
>
>> Hello list. I'm a newbie when it comes to Python.
>>
>> I'm trying to turn this:
>>
>>  def print_sys_path():
>>     i = 0
>>     for p in sys.path:
>>       print ('sys.path[%2d]: %s' % (i, p))
>>       i += 1
>>
>> into a one-line python command (in a .bat file):
>
> Is "one liner" an actual requirement or is the requirement to run it
> from the command line?
>
> python -c "
> import sys
> i = 0
> for p in sys.path:
>   print('sys.path[%2d]: %s' % (i, p))
>   i+=1
> "
>
> I don't know if this works on Windows or not.

It doesn't, I just tested it. Windows batch is appallingly crude
compared to a modern Unix shell; you may be able to find a way to get
around this, but the easiest solution for most batch files is going to
be an actual Python script file. You may be able to overlay your batch
and Python scripts with a trick like this:

rem = '''
@echo off
echo This is batch
\python32\python %0
echo All done
exit /b
rem '''
import sys
print("This is Python")
for i,p in enumerate(sys.path):
	print('sys.path[%2d]: %s' % (i, p))
print("Python done")

You'll have a variable in Python called 'rem' which contains all your
batch code :) It exploits the fact that 'rem' makes a one-line
comment, but the triple quotes go across multiple lines. (The "exit
/b" should exit the batch script without closing cmd.exe - this is yet
another weird WEIRD wart in Windows batch. I'm pretty sure neither DOS
nor OS/2 batch required that parameter.)

ChrisA


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 09:16:25 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 06:16:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: for-loop on cmd-line
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2047.1349961261.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <E7295A9F2EFF4FD0A64C1225370AAC56@dev.null>
	<20121011081607.46014e3d@dilbert>
	<mailman.2047.1349961261.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <29d3c39a-ca37-403d-a9ed-dc1b3771d1f2@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, 11 October 2012 18:44:44 UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico  wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 11:16 PM, D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 13:24:22 +0200
> 
> > Gisle Vanem <gvanem at broadpark.no> wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> >> Hello list. I'm a newbie when it comes to Python.
> 
> >>
> 
> >> I'm trying to turn this:
> 
> >>
> 
> >>  def print_sys_path():
> 
> >>     i = 0
> 
> >>     for p in sys.path:
> 
> >>       print ('sys.path[%2d]: %s' % (i, p))
> 
> >>       i += 1
> 
> >>
> 
> >> into a one-line python command (in a .bat file):
> 
> >
> 
> > Is "one liner" an actual requirement or is the requirement to run it
> 
> > from the command line?
> 
> >
> 
> > python -c "
> 
> > import sys
> 
> > i = 0
> 
> > for p in sys.path:
> 
> >   print('sys.path[%2d]: %s' % (i, p))
> 
> >   i+=1
> 
> > "
> 
> >
> 
> > I don't know if this works on Windows or not.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't, I just tested it. Windows batch is appallingly crude
> 
> compared to a modern Unix shell; you may be able to find a way to get
> 
> around this, but the easiest solution for most batch files is going to
> 
> be an actual Python script file. You may be able to overlay your batch
> 
> and Python scripts with a trick like this:
> 
> 
> 
> rem = '''
> 
> @echo off
> 
> echo This is batch
> 
> \python32\python %0
> 
> echo All done
> 
> exit /b
> 
> rem '''
> 
> import sys
> 
> print("This is Python")
> 
> for i,p in enumerate(sys.path):
> 
> 	print('sys.path[%2d]: %s' % (i, p))
> 
> print("Python done")
> 
> 
> 
> You'll have a variable in Python called 'rem' which contains all your
> 
> batch code :) It exploits the fact that 'rem' makes a one-line
> 
> comment, but the triple quotes go across multiple lines. (The "exit
> 
> /b" should exit the batch script without closing cmd.exe - this is yet
> 
> another weird WEIRD wart in Windows batch. I'm pretty sure neither DOS
> 
> nor OS/2 batch required that parameter.)
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisA

What about the "Power" in PowerShell?


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 09:16:25 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 06:16:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: for-loop on cmd-line
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2047.1349961261.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <E7295A9F2EFF4FD0A64C1225370AAC56@dev.null>
	<20121011081607.46014e3d@dilbert>
	<mailman.2047.1349961261.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <29d3c39a-ca37-403d-a9ed-dc1b3771d1f2@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, 11 October 2012 18:44:44 UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico  wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 11:16 PM, D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 13:24:22 +0200
> 
> > Gisle Vanem <gvanem at broadpark.no> wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> >> Hello list. I'm a newbie when it comes to Python.
> 
> >>
> 
> >> I'm trying to turn this:
> 
> >>
> 
> >>  def print_sys_path():
> 
> >>     i = 0
> 
> >>     for p in sys.path:
> 
> >>       print ('sys.path[%2d]: %s' % (i, p))
> 
> >>       i += 1
> 
> >>
> 
> >> into a one-line python command (in a .bat file):
> 
> >
> 
> > Is "one liner" an actual requirement or is the requirement to run it
> 
> > from the command line?
> 
> >
> 
> > python -c "
> 
> > import sys
> 
> > i = 0
> 
> > for p in sys.path:
> 
> >   print('sys.path[%2d]: %s' % (i, p))
> 
> >   i+=1
> 
> > "
> 
> >
> 
> > I don't know if this works on Windows or not.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't, I just tested it. Windows batch is appallingly crude
> 
> compared to a modern Unix shell; you may be able to find a way to get
> 
> around this, but the easiest solution for most batch files is going to
> 
> be an actual Python script file. You may be able to overlay your batch
> 
> and Python scripts with a trick like this:
> 
> 
> 
> rem = '''
> 
> @echo off
> 
> echo This is batch
> 
> \python32\python %0
> 
> echo All done
> 
> exit /b
> 
> rem '''
> 
> import sys
> 
> print("This is Python")
> 
> for i,p in enumerate(sys.path):
> 
> 	print('sys.path[%2d]: %s' % (i, p))
> 
> print("Python done")
> 
> 
> 
> You'll have a variable in Python called 'rem' which contains all your
> 
> batch code :) It exploits the fact that 'rem' makes a one-line
> 
> comment, but the triple quotes go across multiple lines. (The "exit
> 
> /b" should exit the batch script without closing cmd.exe - this is yet
> 
> another weird WEIRD wart in Windows batch. I'm pretty sure neither DOS
> 
> nor OS/2 batch required that parameter.)
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisA

What about the "Power" in PowerShell?


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 09:17:19 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 06:17:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ANN] pylint 0.26 / logilab-astng 0.24.1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1950.1349705982.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1950.1349705982.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c1466bd0-1e45-48a3-9328-34301c5beb46@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, 8 October 2012 19:50:18 UTC+5:30, Sylvain Th?nault  wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> 
> I'm very pleased to announce new releases of Pylint and
> 
> underlying ASTNG library, respectivly 0.26 and 0.24.1. The great
> 
> news is that both bring a lot of new features and some bug fixes,
> 
> mostly provided by the community effort.
> 
> 
> 
> We're still trying to make it easier to contribute on our free
> 
> software project at Logilab, so I hope this will continue and
> 
> we'll get even more contritions in a near future, and an even
> 
> smarter/faster/whatever pylint!
> 
> 
> 
> So many thanks to all those who made that release, and enjoy!
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Sylvain Th?nault, LOGILAB, Paris (01.45.32.03.12) - Toulouse (05.62.17.16.42)
> 
> Formations Python, Debian, M?th. Agiles: http://www.logilab.fr/formations
> 
> D?veloppement logiciel sur mesure:       http://www.logilab.fr/services
> 
> CubicWeb, the semantic web framework:    http://www.cubicweb.org

I love pylint.


From maniandram01 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 09:17:19 2012
From: maniandram01 at gmail.com (Ramchandra Apte)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 06:17:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ANN] pylint 0.26 / logilab-astng 0.24.1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1950.1349705982.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1950.1349705982.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c1466bd0-1e45-48a3-9328-34301c5beb46@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, 8 October 2012 19:50:18 UTC+5:30, Sylvain Th?nault  wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> 
> I'm very pleased to announce new releases of Pylint and
> 
> underlying ASTNG library, respectivly 0.26 and 0.24.1. The great
> 
> news is that both bring a lot of new features and some bug fixes,
> 
> mostly provided by the community effort.
> 
> 
> 
> We're still trying to make it easier to contribute on our free
> 
> software project at Logilab, so I hope this will continue and
> 
> we'll get even more contritions in a near future, and an even
> 
> smarter/faster/whatever pylint!
> 
> 
> 
> So many thanks to all those who made that release, and enjoy!
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Sylvain Th?nault, LOGILAB, Paris (01.45.32.03.12) - Toulouse (05.62.17.16.42)
> 
> Formations Python, Debian, M?th. Agiles: http://www.logilab.fr/formations
> 
> D?veloppement logiciel sur mesure:       http://www.logilab.fr/services
> 
> CubicWeb, the semantic web framework:    http://www.cubicweb.org

I love pylint.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 09:20:23 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 00:20:23 +1100
Subject: for-loop on cmd-line
In-Reply-To: <29d3c39a-ca37-403d-a9ed-dc1b3771d1f2@googlegroups.com>
References: <E7295A9F2EFF4FD0A64C1225370AAC56@dev.null>
	<20121011081607.46014e3d@dilbert>
	<mailman.2047.1349961261.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<29d3c39a-ca37-403d-a9ed-dc1b3771d1f2@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrz5ekW-SmR1F2GURFMxnDGymaxUTzwm5OXJRWK=ZWp2A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 12:16 AM, Ramchandra Apte
<maniandram01 at gmail.com> wrote:
> What about the "Power" in PowerShell?

What about it? Are you suggesting that the OP use it? Are you saying
that Windows batch already includes it? You quoted my entire post
(double-spaced), but that context adds nothing to your statement; it
still stands alone as a complete non sequitur.

And you're posting to both c.l.p and p-l...

ChrisA


From gvanem at broadpark.no  Thu Oct 11 09:40:57 2012
From: gvanem at broadpark.no (Gisle Vanem)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 15:40:57 +0200
Subject: for-loop on cmd-line
References: <E7295A9F2EFF4FD0A64C1225370AAC56@dev.null>
	<5076B379.4010503@davea.name>
Message-ID: <75D2196AFD71466088D040B005B0BFFF@dev.null>

"Dave Angel" <d at davea.name> wrote:

> it has nothing to do with being on a command line.  You're using
> semicolon to combine several statements, and there are restrictions on
> what can be combined that way.  One restriction is the looping
> constructs, for, if, while.

Ok, I suspected something like that.

> You can do it easily enough with a list comprehension.  Let us know if
> you can't work that out.

Later. I'm only scratching the surface of Python.
 
> Any reason why you don't just make a one-file python script, and run
> that instead of your one line batch file? 

I though of calling that python line from a C-program using
popen() and parsing the output. Since popen() on Win32 AFAIK doesn't accept 
multiple lines, I guess I must write a .py-file to %TEMP first.

Thank to all.

--gv


From bartholomae.juergen at googlemail.com  Thu Oct 11 10:16:18 2012
From: bartholomae.juergen at googlemail.com (Juergen Bartholomae)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 16:16:18 +0200
Subject: __builtins__ thread-safe / __builtins__ as function?
Message-ID: <CAAj3U_Ce+F6u+mhUy+_3uNXp4ck2QXtUw+7VG4wo9H88hJs0pQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello.
I have quite a peculiar problem.

A little overview of our situation:
Our program enables our users to write their own python code (which they
use extensively).
Unfortunately, (due to us actually encouraging this in an earlier release
(!stupid!)) this meant that, in several cases, there are modules which use
__builtins__ as a kind of global dictionary, where various variables are
inserted, changed and read.

Now, currently we are updating our program from a single-threaded to a
multithreaded architecture.
-> Of course, this means that the same module can now run in several
threads at the same time, and, since __builtins__ is pretty much global in
the system, they all share the same __builtins__.

Unfortunately, the obvious solution (use something else instead of abusing
__builtins__) won't do, because, like I said, there are various existing
modules out there that we cannot control and which must continue to run as
expected.

One possible solution  is to somehow redirect every __builtins__ to a
function that returns a different __builtins__ dictionary for each thread
(such a function already exists).

MY QUESTION:
How can I redirect __builtins__ to a built-in function?
My first idea was using __getattr__, but this won't work for most modules,
because __getattr__ only works with classes, and the customer .py-files
might not have any.
This means the customer modules are simply objects of the class <modules>,
which is of course an unchangeable metaclass. (so, no way to add any
methods here)
I could do it if there was any way to load .py-files as any other class
than <modules>, maybe as a subclass, but I do not know how this could be
done.

So, I am really at a loss here.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Juergen Bartholomae
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Oct 11 10:17:48 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 15:17:48 +0100
Subject: [Python-ideas] Make undefined escape sequences have	SyntaxWarnings
In-Reply-To: <50765A68.9080607@canterbury.ac.nz>
References: <CAEBZo3PTt1b=7TBb5TxyHLUdELByjwU8vDjBARGNO+WOazLJ0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121010214607.354902d6@pitrou.net>
	<CAEBZo3PktUUnP36B-=AaoJH3xc3AuNsyiN63Jjoq9rF+iMo2YQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50760DED.2030801@pearwood.info>
	<CAEBZo3OC9sW2xOrEOo5pFLx+-o6aonDQEc8-aWL=zf_QfKGfgA@mail.gmail.com>
	<507635D9.2040107@pearwood.info>
	<50765A68.9080607@canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <5076D50C.3070604@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-11 06:34, Greg Ewing wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> If you escape a character, you should get
>> something. If it's a special character, you get the special meaning.
>> If it's not, escaping should be transparent: escaping something that
>> doesn't need escaping is a null op
>
> I think that calling "\n", "\t" etc. "escape sequences" is a misnomer
> that is causing confusion in this discussion.
>
> The term "escape" in this context means to prevent something from
> having a special meaning that it would otherwise have. But the
> backslash in these is being used to *give* a special meaning to
> the following character.
>
> In Python string literals, the only true escape sequences associated
> with the backslash are '\\', "\'" and '\"'.
>
> So the backslash is a bit schizophrenic -- sometimes it's an escape
> character, sometimes it's a prefix that imparts a special meaning.
>
> This means that "\c" where c is not special in any way is somewhat
> ambiguous. Are you redundantly escaping something that doesn't
> need it, are you asking for a special meaning that doesn't exist
> (which is probably a mistake), or do you just want a literal
> backslash?
>
> Python guesses that you want a literal backslash. This seems to be
> motivated by the desire to minimise the need for backslash doubling.
> That sounds fine in theory, but I don't think it helps much in
> practice. I for one don't trust myself to keep the entire set of
> special characters in my head, including all the rarely-used ones,
> so I end up doubling every backslash anyway.
>
> Given that, I wouldn't have minded at all if Python had refused
> to guess in this case, and raised a compile-time error. That would
> have left the way open for extending the set of special chars in
> the future.
>
>> Adding a new escape sequence is almost as big a step as adding a new
>> built-in or new syntax. I see that as a good thing, it discourages too
>> many requests for new escape sequences.
>
> I don't see it makes much difference. We get plenty of requests for
> new syntax of all kinds, and we seem to have enough sense to reject
> them unless they're backed by extremely good arguments. There's no
> reason requests for new special chars should be treated any differently.
>
My own preference is that a backslash followed by an ASCII letter or
digit either has a special meaning currently (with a compile-time error
if it's not correctly formed) or is reserved for future use (with a
compile-time currently), and that a backslash followed by any other
character (codepoint) is a literal (although they may some exceptions
to that, such as a backslash followed by a newline being ignored).


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 10:25:27 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 01:25:27 +1100
Subject: __builtins__ thread-safe / __builtins__ as function?
In-Reply-To: <CAAj3U_Ce+F6u+mhUy+_3uNXp4ck2QXtUw+7VG4wo9H88hJs0pQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAj3U_Ce+F6u+mhUy+_3uNXp4ck2QXtUw+7VG4wo9H88hJs0pQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpsKsjbMVaObHqG5P-FKog1vuxT1zgzYKCmfTWU6j6WpA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 1:16 AM, Juergen Bartholomae
<bartholomae.juergen at googlemail.com> wrote:
> One possible solution  is to somehow redirect every __builtins__ to a
> function that returns a different __builtins__ dictionary for each thread
> (such a function already exists).

How exactly does the code reference it? If they're simply referring to
the name __builtins__ at module level, you ought to be able to import
the module, then assign some_module.__builtins__ to your thread-local
object, then call code in it as normal.

An interesting problem, and one where monkeypatching is, imho, justified.

ChrisA


From fr4nkl1nz at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 10:45:12 2012
From: fr4nkl1nz at gmail.com (Frank Franklin)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 07:45:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Getting ipython notebook to plot inline [updated]
In-Reply-To: <ba5ade32-dfd4-4443-a569-c7488cd77659@googlegroups.com>
References: <ba5ade32-dfd4-4443-a569-c7488cd77659@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <26d85364-bde2-482a-bd74-07b3af1292ad@googlegroups.com>

Ok, so just to add to this, there is no problem plotting when I used the following command in my terminal to start the notebook:
    ipython notebook
The only problem is that this plots my figures outside of the notebook page, and I really want to get everything into the notebook, since that's the point of the install.

but for some reason when I add the --pylab=inline that all the tutorials mention I get the AttributeError I mentioned before. I'm starting to wonder if this is a problem with my machine setup, if I'm missing something else that ipython notebook needs to do inline plotting.

Any help on this would be appreciated -- at this point I'm banging my head against the wall and solution doesn't seem to have surfaced through googling.




On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 2:02:17 PM UTC-4, Frank Franklin wrote:
> I've just managed to install ipython and get it to run by typing ipython notebook --pylab=inline
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm getting the following error when I try to plot something in ipython notebook:
> 
>     AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'FigureCanvas'
> 
> 
> 
> I've tried using imports to make this work:
> 
>     import matplotlib.pyplot as plt
> 
>     import numpy as np
> 
>     x = np.arange(0, 5, 0.1);
> 
>     y = np.sin(x)
> 
>     plt.plot(x, y)
> 
> 
> 
> But for some reason I still get this error. Anybody else know what's going on here? All of the print statements I've done before have worked, and I actually got my plots to work when I didn't set --pylab=inline, though they came up in a separate window and I want them to stay in the ipython notebook.


From ramdevtech.netinc at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 11:26:27 2012
From: ramdevtech.netinc at gmail.com (ram dev)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 08:26:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Client Needs  Linux Admin position in Pleasanton, CA
Message-ID: <2eecc6ae-ca21-4f93-b0fc-109e7ea1389b@googlegroups.com>

Good Day,
We have an urgent Contract Opening in  Pleasanton, CA.

Looking forward to submit your resume for below mentioned Requirement?
If you are interested, Please forward your latest resume along with location and pay rate details to  ram at tech-netinc.com


Job Title: Linux Admin 
Location: Pleasanton, CA
Duration: 18 months +

We have a direct Client requirement in Pleasanton, CA

Job Description:
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?	Programmatically automate routine cloud deployment, administration, and monitoring tasks
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?	Provide operational support of cloud/development environments in support of both the engineering and IT organizations
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?	Specific experience in cloud platform deployment preferred
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?	Knowledge of Chef and/or Puppet orchestration frameworks desired
?	Prior experience developing and integrating management dashboards a big plus
?	Prior experience in hands-on troubleshooting of complex systems problems that includes capacity planning and performance tuning, reliability or high availability initiatives
?	Database implementation and maintenance experience required (DB2 and/or SQL Server)
?	Cross-functional DBA skills highly preferred
?	Good technical knowledge of block and network storage and data protection
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?	Excellent communicator ? verbal and written skills required
?	Bachelor?s degree in Computer Science or related discipline or equivalent work experience
?	Master/Bachelor?s degree in Computer Science or related discipline

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?	Current Location:
?	Pay Rate :
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?	Last 4-digits of SSN:
?	References:
?	
?	
?	Ready for Telephonic discussion during office hours  



Thanks,
============================
Ram Dev
Recruiter
Tech-Net Inc.
Tel: 916-458-4390 Ext 102
Email: ram at tech-netinc.com 


From wxjmfauth at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 12:24:10 2012
From: wxjmfauth at gmail.com (wxjmfauth at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 09:24:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: for-loop on cmd-line
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2048.1349961393.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <E7295A9F2EFF4FD0A64C1225370AAC56@dev.null>
	<20121011081607.46014e3d@dilbert>
	<mailman.2047.1349961261.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2048.1349961393.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <029d1272-68a7-4313-92f7-760e5bec141d@googlegroups.com>

Le jeudi 11 octobre 2012 15:16:33 UTC+2, Ramchandra Apte a ?crit?:

PS C:\> $cmd="import sys;"
PS C:\> $cmd+="print('\n'.join(sys.path))"
PS C:\> $cmd
import sys;print('\n'.join(sys.path))
PS C:\> c:\python32\python -c $cmd

C:\Windows\system32\python32.zip
c:\python32\DLLs
c:\python32\lib
c:\python32
c:\python32\lib\site-packages
PS C:\>

Can probably be in a .cmd file.

jmf


From wxjmfauth at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 12:24:10 2012
From: wxjmfauth at gmail.com (wxjmfauth at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 09:24:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: for-loop on cmd-line
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2048.1349961393.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <E7295A9F2EFF4FD0A64C1225370AAC56@dev.null>
	<20121011081607.46014e3d@dilbert>
	<mailman.2047.1349961261.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2048.1349961393.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <029d1272-68a7-4313-92f7-760e5bec141d@googlegroups.com>

Le jeudi 11 octobre 2012 15:16:33 UTC+2, Ramchandra Apte a ?crit?:

PS C:\> $cmd="import sys;"
PS C:\> $cmd+="print('\n'.join(sys.path))"
PS C:\> $cmd
import sys;print('\n'.join(sys.path))
PS C:\> c:\python32\python -c $cmd

C:\Windows\system32\python32.zip
c:\python32\DLLs
c:\python32\lib
c:\python32
c:\python32\lib\site-packages
PS C:\>

Can probably be in a .cmd file.

jmf


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 12:32:43 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 03:32:43 +1100
Subject: for-loop on cmd-line
In-Reply-To: <029d1272-68a7-4313-92f7-760e5bec141d@googlegroups.com>
References: <E7295A9F2EFF4FD0A64C1225370AAC56@dev.null>
	<20121011081607.46014e3d@dilbert>
	<mailman.2047.1349961261.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2048.1349961393.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<029d1272-68a7-4313-92f7-760e5bec141d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqVvjFb8NV81-cLjc29OrZqDNQ-ghx+bdJtvmnTQ4x8pw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 3:24 AM,  <wxjmfauth at gmail.com> wrote:
> Le jeudi 11 octobre 2012 15:16:33 UTC+2, Ramchandra Apte a ?crit :
>
> PS C:\> $cmd="import sys;"
> PS C:\> $cmd+="print('\n'.join(sys.path))"
> PS C:\> $cmd
> import sys;print('\n'.join(sys.path))
> PS C:\> c:\python32\python -c $cmd
>
> C:\Windows\system32\python32.zip
> c:\python32\DLLs
> c:\python32\lib
> c:\python32
> c:\python32\lib\site-packages
> PS C:\>
>
> Can probably be in a .cmd file.

That doesn't actually make a multi-line argument though. It just
dodges the issue by avoiding the for loop :)

ChrisA


From gvanem at broadpark.no  Thu Oct 11 12:49:27 2012
From: gvanem at broadpark.no (Gisle Vanem)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 18:49:27 +0200
Subject: for-loop on cmd-line
References: <E7295A9F2EFF4FD0A64C1225370AAC56@dev.null>
	<20121011081607.46014e3d@dilbert>
	<mailman.2047.1349961261.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2048.1349961393.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<029d1272-68a7-4313-92f7-760e5bec141d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <61F66C1735DA4E1496AAE9A0BD68E436@dev.null>

<wxjmfauth at gmail.com> wrote in comp.lang.python

(my ISP no longer updates this group. Last message is from 8. April.
 Does the postings to the python mailing-list automatically get reposted 
 to comp.lang.python?)

> C:\Windows\system32\python32.zip
> c:\python32\DLLs

I see a similar result:
  f:\Windows\system32\python27.zip

Where is it determined that python27.zip should be in sys.path?
I have no such file anywhere. I'm using ActivePython 2.7.2.

--gv



From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 12:58:45 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 03:58:45 +1100
Subject: for-loop on cmd-line
In-Reply-To: <61F66C1735DA4E1496AAE9A0BD68E436@dev.null>
References: <E7295A9F2EFF4FD0A64C1225370AAC56@dev.null>
	<20121011081607.46014e3d@dilbert>
	<mailman.2047.1349961261.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2048.1349961393.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<029d1272-68a7-4313-92f7-760e5bec141d@googlegroups.com>
	<61F66C1735DA4E1496AAE9A0BD68E436@dev.null>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrxM6sDKL+JjzNLV6Bgoi4=17XdzwtbT9opYGi6bgr8Ag@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 3:49 AM, Gisle Vanem <gvanem at broadpark.no> wrote:
> <wxjmfauth at gmail.com> wrote in comp.lang.python
>
> (my ISP no longer updates this group. Last message is from 8. April.
> Does the postings to the python mailing-list automatically get reposted to
> comp.lang.python?)

Yes, c.l.p and python-list mirror each other.

>> C:\Windows\system32\python32.zip
>> c:\python32\DLLs
>
>
> I see a similar result:
>  f:\Windows\system32\python27.zip
>
> Where is it determined that python27.zip should be in sys.path?
> I have no such file anywhere. I'm using ActivePython 2.7.2.

It's in sys.path in the three Windows Pythons I have here:

C:\Documents and Settings\M>python -c "import sys; print(sys.version); print('\n
'.join(sys.path))"
2.4.5 (#1, Jul 22 2011, 02:01:04)
[GCC 4.1.1]

C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\lib\python24.zip
C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\lib\python2.4
C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\lib\python2.4\plat-mingw32
C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\lib\python2.4\lib-tk
C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\lib\python2.4\lib-dynload
C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\lib\python2.4\site-packages

C:\Documents and Settings\M>\python26\python -c "import sys; print(sys.version);
 print('\n'.join(sys.path))"
2.6.5 (r265:79096, Mar 19 2010, 21:48:26) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]

C:\WINDOWS\system32\python26.zip
C:\python26\DLLs
C:\python26\lib
C:\python26\lib\plat-win
C:\python26\lib\lib-tk
C:\python26
C:\python26\lib\site-packages

C:\Documents and Settings\M>\python32\python -c "import sys; print(sys.version);
 print('\n'.join(sys.path))"
3.2 (r32:88445, Feb 20 2011, 21:29:02) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]

C:\WINDOWS\system32\python32.zip
C:\python32\DLLs
C:\python32\lib
C:\python32
C:\python32\lib\site-packages
C:\python32\lib\site-packages\win32
C:\python32\lib\site-packages\win32\lib
C:\python32\lib\site-packages\Pythonwin

C:\Documents and Settings\M>

Presumably it's so that I can zip up my entire Python library and toss
it into a convenient file. I don't think it costs much to stat a file
and find it's not there before moving on, so it's not a problem to
leave it there.

ChrisA


From drsalists at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 13:25:55 2012
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 10:25:55 -0700
Subject: Static analysis tools
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_oFK_wDEidrScvXiREsiQrggxZO=NOzZc9aPv7Va1nWkQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'm familiar with pylint, and have recently played with pyflakes and
flake8. I've also heard of pychecker.

Are there others, perhaps including some that aren't written in Python, but
still check Python?

We're considering doing static analysis of a large CPython 3.2 project, but
so far the traditional 3 seem to be coming up a little short for Python
3 compatibility.  Especially, they don't seem to understand PEP 3102
AKA Keyword Only Arguments, and we really like Keyword Only Arguments.

Opensource would be great,but we'd also be willing to pay for a suitable
tool.

Windows or *ix tools would be fine.

Any suggestions about things to check into?
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From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Oct 11 13:39:01 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 18:39:01 +0100
Subject: Static analysis tools
In-Reply-To: <CAGGBd_oFK_wDEidrScvXiREsiQrggxZO=NOzZc9aPv7Va1nWkQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGGBd_oFK_wDEidrScvXiREsiQrggxZO=NOzZc9aPv7Va1nWkQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5706q$49n$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 11/10/2012 18:25, Dan Stromberg wrote:
> I'm familiar with pylint, and have recently played with pyflakes and
> flake8. I've also heard of pychecker.
>
> Are there others, perhaps including some that aren't written in Python, but
> still check Python?
>
> We're considering doing static analysis of a large CPython 3.2 project, but
> so far the traditional 3 seem to be coming up a little short for Python
> 3 compatibility.  Especially, they don't seem to understand PEP 3102
> AKA Keyword Only Arguments, and we really like Keyword Only Arguments.
>
> Opensource would be great,but we'd also be willing to pay for a suitable
> tool.
>
> Windows or *ix tools would be fine.
>
> Any suggestions about things to check into?
>
>
>

I've found clonedigger very useful http://clonedigger.sourceforge.net/

Not what you're asking for but figleaf is good as well 
http://darcs.idyll.org/~t/projects/figleaf/doc/

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Thu Oct 11 16:12:06 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 20:12:06 +0000
Subject: for-loop on cmd-line
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrxM6sDKL+JjzNLV6Bgoi4=17XdzwtbT9opYGi6bgr8Ag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E7295A9F2EFF4FD0A64C1225370AAC56@dev.null>
	<20121011081607.46014e3d@dilbert>
	<mailman.2047.1349961261.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2048.1349961393.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<029d1272-68a7-4313-92f7-760e5bec141d@googlegroups.com>
	<61F66C1735DA4E1496AAE9A0BD68E436@dev.null>
	<CAPTjJmrxM6sDKL+JjzNLV6Bgoi4=17XdzwtbT9opYGi6bgr8Ag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF474166E90CF@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 3:49 AM, Gisle Vanem <gvanem at broadpark.no> wrote:
> > <wxjmfauth at gmail.com> wrote in comp.lang.python
> >
> > (my ISP no longer updates this group. Last message is from 8. April.
> > Does the postings to the python mailing-list automatically get reposted to
> > comp.lang.python?)
> 
> Yes, c.l.p and python-list mirror each other.
> 
> >> C:\Windows\system32\python32.zip
> >> c:\python32\DLLs
> >
> >
> > I see a similar result:
> >  f:\Windows\system32\python27.zip
> >
> > Where is it determined that python27.zip should be in sys.path?
> > I have no such file anywhere. I'm using ActivePython 2.7.2.
> 
> It's in sys.path in the three Windows Pythons I have here:
> 
> C:\Documents and Settings\M>python -c "import sys; print(sys.version); print('\n
> '.join(sys.path))"
> 2.4.5 (#1, Jul 22 2011, 02:01:04)
> [GCC 4.1.1]
> 
> C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\lib\python24.zip
> C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\lib\python2.4
> C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\lib\python2.4\plat-mingw32
> C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\lib\python2.4\lib-tk
> C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\lib\python2.4\lib-dynload
> C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\lib\python2.4\site-packages
> 
> C:\Documents and Settings\M>\python26\python -c "import sys; print(sys.version);
>  print('\n'.join(sys.path))"
> 2.6.5 (r265:79096, Mar 19 2010, 21:48:26) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]
> 
> C:\WINDOWS\system32\python26.zip
> C:\python26\DLLs
> C:\python26\lib
> C:\python26\lib\plat-win
> C:\python26\lib\lib-tk
> C:\python26
> C:\python26\lib\site-packages
> 
> C:\Documents and Settings\M>\python32\python -c "import sys; print(sys.version);
>  print('\n'.join(sys.path))"
> 3.2 (r32:88445, Feb 20 2011, 21:29:02) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]
> 
> C:\WINDOWS\system32\python32.zip
> C:\python32\DLLs
> C:\python32\lib
> C:\python32
> C:\python32\lib\site-packages
> C:\python32\lib\site-packages\win32
> C:\python32\lib\site-packages\win32\lib
> C:\python32\lib\site-packages\Pythonwin
> 
> C:\Documents and Settings\M>
> 
> Presumably it's so that I can zip up my entire Python library and toss
> it into a convenient file. I don't think it costs much to stat a file
> and find it's not there before moving on, so it's not a problem to
> leave it there.
> 
> ChrisA

Interesting, my results are slightly different. Here is what I 
get from (one of) my Python installs.

2.7.1 (r271:86832, Nov 27 2010, 18:30:46) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]
C:\ramit\Python27\python27.zip
C:\ramit\Python27\DLLs
C:\ramit\Python27\lib
C:\ramit\Python27\lib\plat-win
C:\ramit\Python27\lib\lib-tk
C:\ramit\Python27
C:\ramit\Python27\lib\site-packages

Ramit

This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From d at davea.name  Thu Oct 11 16:28:26 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 16:28:26 -0400
Subject: __builtins__ thread-safe / __builtins__ as function?
In-Reply-To: <CAAj3U_Ce+F6u+mhUy+_3uNXp4ck2QXtUw+7VG4wo9H88hJs0pQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAj3U_Ce+F6u+mhUy+_3uNXp4ck2QXtUw+7VG4wo9H88hJs0pQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50772BEA.309@davea.name>

On 10/11/2012 10:16 AM, Juergen Bartholomae wrote:
> Hello.
> I have quite a peculiar problem.
>
> A little overview of our situation:
> Our program enables our users to write their own python code (which they
> use extensively).
> Unfortunately, (due to us actually encouraging this in an earlier release
> (!stupid!)) this meant that, in several cases, there are modules which use
> __builtins__ as a kind of global dictionary, where various variables are
> inserted, changed and read.
>
> Now, currently we are updating our program from a single-threaded to a
> multithreaded architecture.
> -> Of course, this means that the same module can now run in several
> threads at the same time, and, since __builtins__ is pretty much global in
> the system, they all share the same __builtins__.

And that's just the first problem.  Maybe you can just let your new
library revert to the old one unless the calling module specifically
activates the new features.

That way existing modules will continue to work the old way, and if they
want new features, they'll need to follow new constraints.  One of these
is no globals, including nothing added to __builtins__   But remember
that their own globals are just as problematic.


-- 

DaveA



From d at davea.name  Thu Oct 11 16:40:55 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 16:40:55 -0400
Subject: for-loop on cmd-line
In-Reply-To: <75D2196AFD71466088D040B005B0BFFF@dev.null>
References: <E7295A9F2EFF4FD0A64C1225370AAC56@dev.null>
	<5076B379.4010503@davea.name>
	<75D2196AFD71466088D040B005B0BFFF@dev.null>
Message-ID: <50772ED7.1090409@davea.name>

On 10/11/2012 09:40 AM, Gisle Vanem wrote:
> "Dave Angel" <d at davea.name> wrote:
>
>> it has nothing to do with being on a command line.  You're using
>> semicolon to combine several statements, and there are restrictions on
>> what can be combined that way.  One restriction is the looping
>> constructs, for, if, while.
>
> Ok, I suspected something like that.
>
>> You can do it easily enough with a list comprehension.  Let us know if
>> you can't work that out.
>
> Later. I'm only scratching the surface of Python.
>
>> Any reason why you don't just make a one-file python script, and run
>> that instead of your one line batch file? 
>
> I though of calling that python line from a C-program using
> popen() and parsing the output. Since popen() on Win32 AFAIK doesn't
> accept multiple lines, I guess I must write a .py-file to %TEMP first.
>
> Thank to all.
>
> --gv

Why would you write some C-program just to save having two separate
files, one batch and one for the script?  For that matter, several
answers have given you approaches that didn't involve list
comprehensions, including merging the two in a single file, using an
initial variable of rem=""" 

What are your real constraints?  Are you just playing code-golf?



-- 

DaveA



From kevin.s.anthony at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 16:48:17 2012
From: kevin.s.anthony at gmail.com (Kevin Anthony)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 16:48:17 -0400
Subject: __setitem__ without position
In-Reply-To: <CA+C4C6c7GBdxs+jZPGNrpauvZXP7caGpPb8Q466HD7mV09731Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+C4C6c7GBdxs+jZPGNrpauvZXP7caGpPb8Q466HD7mV09731Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+C4C6eMKa6i4Vk4b7hc8SxyDyutoRKkP9VLt0g3UWs+v5ehTw@mail.gmail.com>

I have a class that contains a list of items
I can set items using __setitem__ but if i want to set the while list, i
changes the variable from a myclass to a list.  How can i accomblish this
Example
>>>C = myclass()
>>>C[0] = 57
>>>type(C)
myclass
>>> C = [57,58,59,60]
>>>type(C)
list
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From gvanem at broadpark.no  Thu Oct 11 17:00:09 2012
From: gvanem at broadpark.no (Gisle Vanem)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 23:00:09 +0200
Subject: for-loop on cmd-line
References: <E7295A9F2EFF4FD0A64C1225370AAC56@dev.null>
	<5076B379.4010503@davea.name>
	<75D2196AFD71466088D040B005B0BFFF@dev.null>
	<50772ED7.1090409@davea.name>
Message-ID: <DAD96B270E864DDE8004E171FA984E5A@dev.null>

"Dave Angel" <d at davea.name> wrote:

> Why would you write some C-program just to save having two separate
> files, one batch and one for the script?  For that matter, several
> answers have given you approaches that didn't involve list
> comprehensions, including merging the two in a single file, using an
> initial variable of rem=""" 

Like I wrote; use popen() or system() from a C-program (an env-var
checker) that's not really related to Python programming. But rather to 
check various stuff needed for C-programming . Like walking the list 
of %INCLUDE / %C_INCLUDE_PATH dirs to figure out what headers are 
where. So I'd just as well add an option to check for Python paths too 
(if Python is installed that is).

> What are your real constraints?  Are you just playing code-golf?

That too.

--gv


From d at davea.name  Thu Oct 11 17:32:21 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 17:32:21 -0400
Subject: __setitem__ without position
In-Reply-To: <CA+C4C6eMKa6i4Vk4b7hc8SxyDyutoRKkP9VLt0g3UWs+v5ehTw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+C4C6c7GBdxs+jZPGNrpauvZXP7caGpPb8Q466HD7mV09731Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+C4C6eMKa6i4Vk4b7hc8SxyDyutoRKkP9VLt0g3UWs+v5ehTw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50773AE5.7020400@davea.name>

On 10/11/2012 04:48 PM, Kevin Anthony wrote:
> I have a class that contains a list of items
> I can set items using __setitem__ but if i want to set the while list, i
> changes the variable from a myclass to a list.  How can i accomblish this
> Example
>>>> C = myclass()
>>>> C[0] = 57
>>>> type(C)
> myclass
>>>> C = [57,58,59,60]
This creates a list, and binds the name that used to refer to the
myclass to now refer to the list.  The myclass object will go away,
since there are no more refs to it.

>>>> type(C)
> list
>
>
Why is that a surprise?

As for how to add multiple items to the existing mylist, how about:

for index, item in enumerate([57, 50, 59, 60]) :
    C[index] = item

Alternatively, you could call one of the other methods in the class. 
But since you gave us no clues, I'm shouldn't guess what it was called. 
But if I were to make such a class, I might use slicing:
    C[:] = [57, 50, 59, 60]

BTW, your naming capitalization is backwards.  Class names should begin
with a capital,  Myclass.  Instances should begin with lowercase -
myinstance

-- 

DaveA



From whzhao at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 18:06:43 2012
From: whzhao at gmail.com (Wenhua Zhao)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 15:06:43 -0700
Subject: an error in python lib?
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidm6ouGh-VSunL=8E7CzY0d7gThvGu-in9cu01kNY6qTkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAGqYJ22hAdr3-UVeXM_TEwfP_uGu8JoCdh_LHjWOyH2cRphwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2019.1349831812.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<nl5gk9-0t5.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<CALwzidm6ouGh-VSunL=8E7CzY0d7gThvGu-in9cu01kNY6qTkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAGqYJ0X3Jfh_5a3nMCRN_7ruBJ64rLjF2cp=JxSEHXjjFe_1Q@mail.gmail.com>

> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 6:18 AM, Ulrich Eckhardt
>> The comment clearly states "owned by current thread", not "owned by any
>> thread". The latter would also be useless, as that can change concurrently
>> at any time when owned by a different thread, so making decisions on this
>> state is futile.

Agree.

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> Can you demonstrate an API bug that is caused by this?

A simple demo of this error is:

-----------8<------------------------8<----------------------
import time
from threading import Condition, Lock, Thread

cv = Condition(Lock())

def do_acquire():
    cv.acquire()
    print "cv acquired in thread"
    time.sleep(5)
    cv.release()
    print "cv released in thread"

thread = Thread(target=do_acquire)
thread.start()

for i in range(10):
    print "in main cv._is_owned: ", cv._is_owned()
    time.sleep(1)
-----------8<------------------------8<----------------------

The condition variable is only acquired in the thread, so in main it should
always print false.  However, my output gives:

$ python test.py
cv acquired in threadin main cv._is_owned:
True
in main cv._is_owned:  True
in main cv._is_owned:  True
in main cv._is_owned:  True
in main cv._is_owned:  True
cv released in thread
in main cv._is_owned:  False
in main cv._is_owned:  False
in main cv._is_owned:  False
in main cv._is_owned:  False
in main cv._is_owned:  False

However, as long as you follow the generic pattern, i.e. always use
acquire() before wait(), this error is not triggered.

Thanks all.
Wenhua


From kevin.s.anthony at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 18:13:50 2012
From: kevin.s.anthony at gmail.com (Kevin Anthony)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 18:13:50 -0400
Subject: __setitem__ without position
In-Reply-To: <50773AE5.7020400@davea.name>
References: <CA+C4C6c7GBdxs+jZPGNrpauvZXP7caGpPb8Q466HD7mV09731Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+C4C6eMKa6i4Vk4b7hc8SxyDyutoRKkP9VLt0g3UWs+v5ehTw@mail.gmail.com>
	<50773AE5.7020400@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CA+C4C6fZJMUtwyxsRdDTKzzEQWtxrYVpDT6chn1-yyF8VDK9og@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not supprised... and understand why it's happening.  I'm asking how to
get around it.

Basically i'm asking how to override, if i can, the `=`



On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:

> On 10/11/2012 04:48 PM, Kevin Anthony wrote:
> > I have a class that contains a list of items
> > I can set items using __setitem__ but if i want to set the while list, i
> > changes the variable from a myclass to a list.  How can i accomblish this
> > Example
> >>>> C = myclass()
> >>>> C[0] = 57
> >>>> type(C)
> > myclass
> >>>> C = [57,58,59,60]
> This creates a list, and binds the name that used to refer to the
> myclass to now refer to the list.  The myclass object will go away,
> since there are no more refs to it.
>
> >>>> type(C)
> > list
> >
> >
> Why is that a surprise?
>
> As for how to add multiple items to the existing mylist, how about:
>
> for index, item in enumerate([57, 50, 59, 60]) :
>     C[index] = item
>
> Alternatively, you could call one of the other methods in the class.
> But since you gave us no clues, I'm shouldn't guess what it was called.
> But if I were to make such a class, I might use slicing:
>     C[:] = [57, 50, 59, 60]
>
> BTW, your naming capitalization is backwards.  Class names should begin
> with a capital,  Myclass.  Instances should begin with lowercase -
> myinstance
>
> --
>
> DaveA
>
>


-- 
Thanks
Kevin Anthony
www.NoSideRacing.com

Do you use Banshee?
Download the Community Extensions:
http://banshee.fm/download/extensions/
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From hansmu at xs4all.nl  Thu Oct 11 18:21:57 2012
From: hansmu at xs4all.nl (Hans Mulder)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 00:21:57 +0200
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
In-Reply-To: <4ebfe84f-dfaa-40cb-88d9-414660d0c42f@ro10g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1976.1349747963.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-323E36.22065008102012@news.panix.com>
	<d0a5ccce-4a18-41e2-b804-795891db895b@lb2g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ebfe84f-dfaa-40cb-88d9-414660d0c42f@ro10g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50774685$0$6943$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 9/10/12 04:39:28, rusi wrote:
> On Oct 9, 7:34 am, rusi <rustompm... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> How about a 2-paren version?
>>
>>>>> x = [1,2,3]
>>>>> reduce(operator.add,  [['insert', a] for a in x])
>>
>> ['insert', 1, 'insert', 2, 'insert', 3]
> 
> Or if one prefers the different parens on the other side:
> 
>>>> reduce(operator.add, (['insert', a] for a in x))
> ['insert', 1, 'insert', 2, 'insert', 3]

Or, if you don't want to import the operator module:

sum((['insert', a] for a in x), [])

-- HansM



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 18:43:21 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 16:43:21 -0600
Subject: __setitem__ without position
In-Reply-To: <CA+C4C6fZJMUtwyxsRdDTKzzEQWtxrYVpDT6chn1-yyF8VDK9og@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+C4C6c7GBdxs+jZPGNrpauvZXP7caGpPb8Q466HD7mV09731Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+C4C6eMKa6i4Vk4b7hc8SxyDyutoRKkP9VLt0g3UWs+v5ehTw@mail.gmail.com>
	<50773AE5.7020400@davea.name>
	<CA+C4C6fZJMUtwyxsRdDTKzzEQWtxrYVpDT6chn1-yyF8VDK9og@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkJeO956ifXN1232sfgO46xyuVpWWaBFs4jaN4XJgofxA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Kevin Anthony
<kevin.s.anthony at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not supprised... and understand why it's happening.  I'm asking how to
> get around it.
>
> Basically i'm asking how to override, if i can, the `=`

You cannot override assignment of local variables.  To get around it,
use slicing as Dave suggested, or use an attribute instead of a local
variable.


From wayne at waynewerner.com  Thu Oct 11 19:10:12 2012
From: wayne at waynewerner.com (Wayne Werner)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 18:10:12 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Posix call (execve) breaks mercurial?
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1210111751490.16777@gilgamesh>

So... this is certainly the deepest I've got to dig into any source code.

I'm experimenting with Review Board for code reviews, and trying to get it 
set up/working here at work. When using post-review, however, I started 
getting issues with untrusted users - even though they were set to trusted 
in my ~/.hgrc and things worked fine otherwise.

So here's where things got weird. I could call 
`subprocess.check_output(['hg', 'root'])`, and things worked just fine. 
But when I added the env parameter, I got the untrusted issues. So if I 
did:

import os, subprocess

# Works just fine
subprocess.check_output(['hg', 'root'])

# Gives untrusted issues
subprocess.check_output(['hg', 'root'], env=os.environ)


Long story short, I dug around the source code and ended up at the POSIX 
execve function. I've been reading the manpages, but nothing seems to pop 
out at me as "hey, this should/shouldn't work!".

Does anyone know what's going on here, or where I should go for more help?

Thanks,
Wayne


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Oct 11 19:23:03 2012
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 16:23:03 -0700
Subject: __setitem__ without position
In-Reply-To: <CA+C4C6fZJMUtwyxsRdDTKzzEQWtxrYVpDT6chn1-yyF8VDK9og@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+C4C6c7GBdxs+jZPGNrpauvZXP7caGpPb8Q466HD7mV09731Q@mail.gmail.com>	<CA+C4C6eMKa6i4Vk4b7hc8SxyDyutoRKkP9VLt0g3UWs+v5ehTw@mail.gmail.com>	<50773AE5.7020400@davea.name>
	<CA+C4C6fZJMUtwyxsRdDTKzzEQWtxrYVpDT6chn1-yyF8VDK9og@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <507754D7.5060206@stoneleaf.us>

Kevin Anthony wrote:
> I'm not supprised... and understand why it's happening.  I'm asking how 
> to get around it.

I don't think you do understand what's happening.

What's happening is the basic application of name binding in Python:

--> C = anything

whatever C was bound to before, it no longer is, because now it is bound 
to <anything>.

What you are trying to do is mutate C, not rebind it.  As Dave 
suggested, you can use slice notation ([:]) or some method of C (that 
you create) to do so.


> Basically i'm asking how to override, if i can, the `=`

You can't.

~Ethan~


From wayne at waynewerner.com  Thu Oct 11 19:33:49 2012
From: wayne at waynewerner.com (Wayne Werner)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 18:33:49 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Posix call (execve) breaks mercurial?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1210111751490.16777@gilgamesh>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1210111751490.16777@gilgamesh>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1210111831010.16777@gilgamesh>

On Thu, 11 Oct 2012, Wayne Werner wrote:

> So here's where things got weird. I could call 
> `subprocess.check_output(['hg', 'root'])`, and things worked just fine. But 
> when I added the env parameter, I got the untrusted issues. So if I did:
>
> import os, subprocess
>
> # Works just fine
> subprocess.check_output(['hg', 'root'])
>
> # Gives untrusted issues
> subprocess.check_output(['hg', 'root'], env=os.environ)

So... curiouser and curiouser - it looks like it's not *actually* execve's 
fault after all. I just compiled the code from the man page, tweaked it to 
run 'hg root', and passed it a new environment. No problems. Well, then I 
manually called the posix one from Python and thing worked fine. *Then* I 
actually tried the above code, and *it* worked fine.

However I *still* get problems with the post-review code. So it looks like 
when I get back to work on Monday I'll be looking to see  what the 
difference in environment is there.

-Wayne


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Oct 11 19:38:41 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 19:38:41 -0400
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
In-Reply-To: <50774685$0$6943$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1976.1349747963.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-323E36.22065008102012@news.panix.com>
	<d0a5ccce-4a18-41e2-b804-795891db895b@lb2g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ebfe84f-dfaa-40cb-88d9-414660d0c42f@ro10g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<50774685$0$6943$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <k57lan$qq5$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/11/2012 6:21 PM, Hans Mulder wrote:
> On 9/10/12 04:39:28, rusi wrote:
>> On Oct 9, 7:34 am, rusi <rustompm... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> How about a 2-paren version?
>>>
>>>>>> x = [1,2,3]
>>>>>> reduce(operator.add,  [['insert', a] for a in x])
>>>
>>> ['insert', 1, 'insert', 2, 'insert', 3]
>>
>> Or if one prefers the different parens on the other side:
>>
>>>>> reduce(operator.add, (['insert', a] for a in x))
>> ['insert', 1, 'insert', 2, 'insert', 3]
>
> Or, if you don't want to import the operator module:
>
> sum((['insert', a] for a in x), [])

All of the solutions based on adding (concatenating) lists create an 
unneeded temporary list for each addition except the last and run in 
O(n**2) time. Starting with one list and appending or extending (which 
does two appends here) is the 'proper' approach to get an O(N) algorithm.

This does not matter for n=3, but for n = 10000 it would.

expanded = []
expand = expand.append
for item in source:
   expand('insert')
   expand(item)

is hard to beat for clarity and time.

expanded = []
expand = expand.extend
for item in source:
   expand(['insert', item])

might be faster if creating the list is faster than the second expand 
call. Note that a typical lisp-like version would recursively traverse 
source to nil and build expanded from tail to head by using the 
equivalent of
   return ['insert' item].extend(expanded)
Extend would be O(1) here also since it would at worst scan the new list 
of length 2 for each of the items in the source.


def interleave(source):
   for item in source:
     yield 'insert'
     yield item

list(interleave(source))

might also be faster since it avoids the repeated python level call. I 
prefer it anyway as modern, idiomatic python in that it separates 
interleaving from creating a list. In many situations, creating a list 
from the interleaved stream will not be needed.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Oct 11 19:47:24 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 19:47:24 -0400
Subject: __setitem__ without position
In-Reply-To: <50773AE5.7020400@davea.name>
References: <CA+C4C6c7GBdxs+jZPGNrpauvZXP7caGpPb8Q466HD7mV09731Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+C4C6eMKa6i4Vk4b7hc8SxyDyutoRKkP9VLt0g3UWs+v5ehTw@mail.gmail.com>
	<50773AE5.7020400@davea.name>
Message-ID: <k57lr2$umt$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/11/2012 5:32 PM, Dave Angel wrote:

> Alternatively, you could call one of the other methods in the class.
> But since you gave us no clues, I'm shouldn't guess what it was called.
> But if I were to make such a class, I might use slicing:
>      C[:] = [57, 50, 59, 60]

In 3.x, you would write __setitem__ to recognize that the 'key' is a 
slice object rather than an int and act accordingly. (In 2.x, you would 
write __setslice__.) Actually, if you write

def __setitem__(self, key, value):
   self.somelist[key] = value

as you might have done already, you get slice getting, setting, and 
deleting for free. Try Dave's line in your code.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct 11 22:16:20 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Oct 2012 02:16:20 GMT
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1976.1349747963.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-323E36.22065008102012@news.panix.com>
	<d0a5ccce-4a18-41e2-b804-795891db895b@lb2g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<4ebfe84f-dfaa-40cb-88d9-414660d0c42f@ro10g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<50774685$0$6943$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <50777d74$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 00:21:57 +0200, Hans Mulder wrote:

> On 9/10/12 04:39:28, rusi wrote:
>> On Oct 9, 7:34 am, rusi <rustompm... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> How about a 2-paren version?
>>>
>>>>>> x = [1,2,3]
>>>>>> reduce(operator.add,  [['insert', a] for a in x])
>>>
>>> ['insert', 1, 'insert', 2, 'insert', 3]
>> 
>> Or if one prefers the different parens on the other side:
>> 
>>>>> reduce(operator.add, (['insert', a] for a in x))
>> ['insert', 1, 'insert', 2, 'insert', 3]
> 
> Or, if you don't want to import the operator module:
> 
> sum((['insert', a] for a in x), [])

Which is also O(N**2) like the reduce solution above.

That means that it will seem perfectly fine when you test it using a a 
hundred or so items, then some day you'll pass it a list with ten million 
items and it will take 36 hours to complete.

I'm serious by the way. By my tests, increasing the number of items in 
the list by a factor of ten increases the time taken by between 30 and 
300 times.



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct 11 22:22:15 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Oct 2012 02:22:15 GMT
Subject: Is `wsample` a proper name for a function like this?
References: <1326bd8c-4523-4712-be27-ab78189db735@googlegroups.com>
	<50766751$0$6512$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<3e07a789-5809-49f9-82e1-4ab904ce7481@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50777ed7$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 23:44:42 -0700, suzaku wrote:

> I think if a programmer has used the built-in `random` module before, he
> would expect a function with "sample" in its name to return a population
> sequence.

I have used the random module for about fifteen years, and I still write 
random.sample when I need to use random.choice.

In statistics, probability, and plain English, a sample can be a single 
item: that's why we can say "a sample" or "two samples".


> If a function is to return scalar value instead of sequence, I would
> expect it to be named "choice".

And I wouldn't. But what do I care? I'm never going to use the code 
you're talking about, so call it "sasquatch" if you like, it's no skin 
off my nose.

:)


-- 
Steven


From satorulogic at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 22:48:19 2012
From: satorulogic at gmail.com (suzaku)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 19:48:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is `wsample` a proper name for a function like this?
In-Reply-To: <50777ed7$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <1326bd8c-4523-4712-be27-ab78189db735@googlegroups.com>
	<50766751$0$6512$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<3e07a789-5809-49f9-82e1-4ab904ce7481@googlegroups.com>
	<50777ed7$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <a9acc3f0-ef94-45a9-9f31-e5874e539d7a@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, October 12, 2012 10:22:16 AM UTC+8, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 23:44:42 -0700, suzaku wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > I think if a programmer has used the built-in `random` module before, he
> 
> > would expect a function with "sample" in its name to return a population
> 
> > sequence.
> 
> 
> 
> I have used the random module for about fifteen years, and I still write 
> 
> random.sample when I need to use random.choice.
> 
> 
> 
> In statistics, probability, and plain English, a sample can be a single 
> 
> item: that's why we can say "a sample" or "two samples".

Thanks for sharing your experience.

As I'm not a native speaker of English, 
when I learned that `random.choice` return single item,
  and `random.sample` return a sequence of items, 
I thought that the behaviour is determined by their definitions.

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > If a function is to return scalar value instead of sequence, I would
> 
> > expect it to be named "choice".
> 
> 
> 
> And I wouldn't. But what do I care? I'm never going to use the code 
> 
> you're talking about, so call it "sasquatch" if you like, it's no skin 
> 
> off my nose.
> 
> 
> 
> :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Steven



From tim.leslie at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 23:56:44 2012
From: tim.leslie at gmail.com (Tim Leslie)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 14:56:44 +1100
Subject: Static analysis tools
In-Reply-To: <CAGGBd_oFK_wDEidrScvXiREsiQrggxZO=NOzZc9aPv7Va1nWkQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGGBd_oFK_wDEidrScvXiREsiQrggxZO=NOzZc9aPv7Va1nWkQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMp9OhathvqSqgoMoyEan3Xi1fwSP9b6Q+gt4M8=u59G8L1XoQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 12 October 2012 04:25, Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm familiar with pylint, and have recently played with pyflakes and flake8.
> I've also heard of pychecker.
>
> Are there others, perhaps including some that aren't written in Python, but
> still check Python?

Another one I've found useful for stylistic checking is pep8:

https://github.com/jcrocholl/pep8

I find it to be complementary to the types of checks performed by
pylint and use both of them in tandem on large projects I work on.

Cheers,

Tim

>
> We're considering doing static analysis of a large CPython 3.2 project, but
> so far the traditional 3 seem to be coming up a little short for Python 3
> compatibility.  Especially, they don't seem to understand PEP 3102 AKA
> Keyword Only Arguments, and we really like Keyword Only Arguments.
>
> Opensource would be great,but we'd also be willing to pay for a suitable
> tool.
>
> Windows or *ix tools would be fine.
>
> Any suggestions about things to check into?
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From blindphaze at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 01:44:10 2012
From: blindphaze at gmail.com (Trevor Nelson)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 22:44:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: AI Example Help
Message-ID: <08c125df-4139-417e-b35f-a4c2b71bc0d1@googlegroups.com>

Hello all,

For the first time in well... a very long time I am coming to a loss on where to really get started here on the project I wish to undertake to help me really get into Python programming.

A quick explanation of how I learn. I learn best with example working small code bits. With the code I then disect it to understand how each part works. (within "beginner" limits of course).


I have been looking around the web and google searching a whole lot the past week about and really have not had much luck on what I am needing / that is really helpful. So, I am here to beg/plead for some help on this.

My end game goal is to create a "hybrid" chat bot. Such as that you can ask it questions and talk to it etc. Such as asking "What's the server's current load?". I found out I could do that with the HOWIE bot I have been playing with. But, I am looking to build up a more "AI" system where instead of me asking all the questions, the bot can yell at me and say " HEY THE SERVER IS OUT OF RESOURCES".


Further developement will lead to a FAQ style bot as well. Such as that where I can ask them things like (for a very basic example, what is a 404 error?), or even (what is causing a 500 ISE on the site? [by having it read the logs and tell me what the logs say for the site])


These are just the basics to help me get started. As I get more advanced and better at this, I would like to be able to have it crawl sites and learn different informain. Something as far fetched and I consider a "dream" would be it crawling the cpanel forums and gathering up the responses to questions so that I could query it as well.


So, as I really, really, hate to have to ask. Does anyone have any example coding in what my basic needs are? As I feel that working off the HOWIE bot won't turn out to what I am wanting and then I will end up wasting a whole lot of time going in the wrong direction. Which is also why I am here


TL;DR
I really would truely appreciate and example coding of how to put together an initial basic "AI" bot where it can monitor the system and tell me alerts as with being able to query it for questions. As with I am looking for some sort of time efficient way for it to gather it's own data. As otherwise all the information I would have to manually put in would be extreme.


I greatly appreciate any help you guys can prodive me with to help me get started. Before you assume I want everyone to do all the work for me, it's not the case. It's just that I learn best/faster from example code.
Also, I am thinking of going with python 2.7 for this since it seems all the documentation I run into isn't for the 3.x Python.


Thank you so much anyone who can help me. Also, if you are someone who actually knows how to do everything I have mentioned, I would even ben willing to hire a "tutor" to teach me these things.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 02:09:40 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 17:09:40 +1100
Subject: AI Example Help
In-Reply-To: <08c125df-4139-417e-b35f-a4c2b71bc0d1@googlegroups.com>
References: <08c125df-4139-417e-b35f-a4c2b71bc0d1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqF-1Tuu2Q_aLW3JH1PruyFHpnKa2_L30Fj36TG1T8suw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Trevor Nelson <blindphaze at gmail.com> wrote:
> I really would truely appreciate and example coding of how to put together an initial basic "AI" bot where it can monitor the system and tell me alerts as with being able to query it for questions. As with I am looking for some sort of time efficient way for it to gather it's own data. As otherwise all the information I would have to manually put in would be extreme.

An interesting concept. AI monitoring systems have never really
appealed to me; I personally prefer something with simpler and clearer
rules (eg "if server load exceeds 3.0, raise an alert"), coupled with
information retrieval commands that read like commands, not natural
English. But I can see the value of the more "human-friendly style",
if that's the term for it.

> I greatly appreciate any help you guys can prodive me with to help me get started. Before you assume I want everyone to do all the work for me, it's not the case. It's just that I learn best/faster from example code.
> Also, I am thinking of going with python 2.7 for this since it seems all the documentation I run into isn't for the 3.x Python.
>

Understandable.

I would recommend treating this as two completely separate projects:
1) Natural language request/response - the "AI" bit, tinkering with
the HOWIE bot
2) Server status querying, log analysis, etc, etc.

You may already be familiar with one or the other, I don't know. But
in any case, they're quite separate; it'll be easier to develop one
and then the other. Divide your problem into pieces, then divide the
pieces further, and keep on dividing until you have a series of
one-banana problems[1].

I would also recommend using Python 3.3, for several reasons:
* There's plenty of docs for 3.3; perhaps web searches are
highlighting 2.x, but if you go to the main docs page[2] you'll find
3.3 there.
* Py3 has much better Unicode support than Py2, a significant factor
when you're working with natural language parsing
* The 2.x line is no longer being developed. Only bugfixes and
security patches will be applied. 3.x, on the other hand, has cool
toys added periodically with new versions.

ChrisA

[1] http://catb.org/jargon/html/O/one-banana-problem.html
[2] http://docs.python.org/py3k/


From blindphaze at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 02:23:44 2012
From: blindphaze at gmail.com (Trevor Nelson)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 23:23:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: AI Example Help
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2079.1350022183.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <08c125df-4139-417e-b35f-a4c2b71bc0d1@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2079.1350022183.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2122bf62-909c-4302-b8b8-8311c7193330@googlegroups.com>


> 
> An interesting concept. AI monitoring systems have never really
> 
> appealed to me; I personally prefer something with simpler and clearer
> 
> rules (eg "if server load exceeds 3.0, raise an alert"), coupled with
> 
> information retrieval commands that read like commands, not natural
> 
> English. But I can see the value of the more "human-friendly style",
> 
> if that's the term for it.
The other goal on this project is to make the application work it's best to automatically narrow down the cause and correct it by itself with a report.



> 
> > I greatly appreciate any help you guys can prodive me with to help me get started. Before you assume I want everyone to do all the work for me, it's not the case. It's just that I learn best/faster from example code.
> 
> > Also, I am thinking of going with python 2.7 for this since it seems all the documentation I run into isn't for the 3.x Python.
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> Understandable.
> 
> 
> 
> I would recommend treating this as two completely separate projects:
> 
> 1) Natural language request/response - the "AI" bit, tinkering with
> 
> the HOWIE bot
> 
> 2) Server status querying, log analysis, etc, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> You may already be familiar with one or the other, I don't know. But
> 
> in any case, they're quite separate; it'll be easier to develop one
> 
> and then the other. Divide your problem into pieces, then divide the
> 
> pieces further, and keep on dividing until you have a series of
> 
> one-banana problems[1].

This is what I have actually been thinking of doing is splitting up the HOWIE bot.  But, that is one thing I am working on still to really figure out how to split it apart between automagicness of telling you things without user input.  And then the input and answer part.  Although, from what I can think of at this time is to write a main program that is the "Automagic part" and then it can call in Howie as needed?
> 
> 
> 
> I would also recommend using Python 3.3, for several reasons:
> 
> * There's plenty of docs for 3.3; perhaps web searches are
> 
> highlighting 2.x, but if you go to the main docs page[2] you'll find
> 
> 3.3 there.
> 
> * Py3 has much better Unicode support than Py2, a significant factor
> 
> when you're working with natural language parsing
> 
> * The 2.x line is no longer being developed. Only bugfixes and
> 
> security patches will be applied. 3.x, on the other hand, has cool
> 
> toys added periodically with new versions.

I will have to see how HOWIE runs with python 3, and give it a shot.



From blindphaze at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 02:23:44 2012
From: blindphaze at gmail.com (Trevor Nelson)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 23:23:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: AI Example Help
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2079.1350022183.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <08c125df-4139-417e-b35f-a4c2b71bc0d1@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2079.1350022183.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2122bf62-909c-4302-b8b8-8311c7193330@googlegroups.com>


> 
> An interesting concept. AI monitoring systems have never really
> 
> appealed to me; I personally prefer something with simpler and clearer
> 
> rules (eg "if server load exceeds 3.0, raise an alert"), coupled with
> 
> information retrieval commands that read like commands, not natural
> 
> English. But I can see the value of the more "human-friendly style",
> 
> if that's the term for it.
The other goal on this project is to make the application work it's best to automatically narrow down the cause and correct it by itself with a report.



> 
> > I greatly appreciate any help you guys can prodive me with to help me get started. Before you assume I want everyone to do all the work for me, it's not the case. It's just that I learn best/faster from example code.
> 
> > Also, I am thinking of going with python 2.7 for this since it seems all the documentation I run into isn't for the 3.x Python.
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> Understandable.
> 
> 
> 
> I would recommend treating this as two completely separate projects:
> 
> 1) Natural language request/response - the "AI" bit, tinkering with
> 
> the HOWIE bot
> 
> 2) Server status querying, log analysis, etc, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> You may already be familiar with one or the other, I don't know. But
> 
> in any case, they're quite separate; it'll be easier to develop one
> 
> and then the other. Divide your problem into pieces, then divide the
> 
> pieces further, and keep on dividing until you have a series of
> 
> one-banana problems[1].

This is what I have actually been thinking of doing is splitting up the HOWIE bot.  But, that is one thing I am working on still to really figure out how to split it apart between automagicness of telling you things without user input.  And then the input and answer part.  Although, from what I can think of at this time is to write a main program that is the "Automagic part" and then it can call in Howie as needed?
> 
> 
> 
> I would also recommend using Python 3.3, for several reasons:
> 
> * There's plenty of docs for 3.3; perhaps web searches are
> 
> highlighting 2.x, but if you go to the main docs page[2] you'll find
> 
> 3.3 there.
> 
> * Py3 has much better Unicode support than Py2, a significant factor
> 
> when you're working with natural language parsing
> 
> * The 2.x line is no longer being developed. Only bugfixes and
> 
> security patches will be applied. 3.x, on the other hand, has cool
> 
> toys added periodically with new versions.

I will have to see how HOWIE runs with python 3, and give it a shot.



From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Fri Oct 12 03:15:12 2012
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 09:15:12 +0200
Subject: an error in python lib?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2069.1349993211.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAAGqYJ22hAdr3-UVeXM_TEwfP_uGu8JoCdh_LHjWOyH2cRphwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2019.1349831812.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<nl5gk9-0t5.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<CALwzidm6ouGh-VSunL=8E7CzY0d7gThvGu-in9cu01kNY6qTkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2069.1349993211.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0lskk9-jih.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 12.10.2012 00:06, schrieb Wenhua Zhao:
> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Can you demonstrate an API bug that is caused by this?
>
> A simple demo of this error is:
[...]
>      print "in main cv._is_owned: ", cv._is_owned()

That is kind of cheating, because as far as I can tell that function is 
private and not even documented in any way. You can use wait() though, 
which should always raise a RuntimeError:

----------->8------------------------>8----------------------

import time
from threading import Condition, Lock, Thread

cv = Condition(Lock())

def do_acquire():
     cv.acquire()
     print "cv acquired in thread"
     time.sleep(5)
     cv.release()
     print "cv released in thread"

thread = Thread(target=do_acquire)
thread.start()

for i in range(10):
     try:
         cv.wait()
         print "in main cv.wait() succeeded"
     except RuntimeError:
         print "in main cv.wait() raised RuntimeError"
     time.sleep(1)

----------->8------------------------>8----------------------

This gives me the following output:

in main cv.wait() raised RuntimeErrorcv acquired in thread

Exception in thread Thread-1:
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "C:\Python27\lib\threading.py", line 551, in __bootstrap_inner
     self.run()
   File "C:\Python27\lib\threading.py", line 504, in run
     self.__target(*self.__args, **self.__kwargs)
   File "ttest.py", line 10, in do_acquire
     cv.release()
error: release unlocked lock

Following that, the program hangs. It seems the wait() released the lock 
that it didn't own, causing the error in do_acquire(). It then hung in 
wait(), although it should have raised a RuntimeError instead.


Uli



From chip9munk at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 05:30:50 2012
From: chip9munk at gmail.com (chip9munk at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 02:30:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: scipy and numpy for Python3
Message-ID: <fb830332-848b-4715-95a9-81e5bb284625@googlegroups.com>

Hello!

I am an absolute beginner in this.
Does anyone know hot to build scipy for python 3?

here: http://scipy.org/Installing_SciPy/Windows
it says that it was not yet tested... (?)

any help is appreciated!

any additional help for numpy is also welcome!

Thanx in advance!


From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 06:42:03 2012
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 06:42:03 -0400
Subject: serialization and versioning
Message-ID: <k58s5q$vho$1@ger.gmane.org>

I wonder if there is a recommended approach to handle this issue.

Suppose objects of a class C are serialized using python standard pickling.  
Later, suppose class C is changed, perhaps by adding a data member and a new 
constructor argument.

It would see the pickling protocol does not directly provide for this - but is 
there a recommended method?

I could imagine that a class could include a class __version__ property that 
might be useful - although I would further expect that it would not have been 
defined in the original version of class C (but only as an afterthought when it 
became necessary).



From chip9munk at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 06:58:27 2012
From: chip9munk at gmail.com (chip9munk at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 03:58:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: scipy and numpy for Python3
In-Reply-To: <fb830332-848b-4715-95a9-81e5bb284625@googlegroups.com>
References: <fb830332-848b-4715-95a9-81e5bb284625@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <71f6fcb7-5ff5-4fb1-a786-5a688a8716c7@googlegroups.com>

ok, i have solved it by the help from the previously mentioned page.

python 3.2 should be used, 3.3 has issues with building numpy and scipy.



From animelovin at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 07:04:37 2012
From: animelovin at gmail.com (Etienne Robillard)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 07:04:37 -0400
Subject: serialization and versioning
In-Reply-To: <k58s5q$vho$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <k58s5q$vho$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20121012070437.1cd761851f5df2acb7e088ac@gmail.com>

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 06:42:03 -0400
Neal Becker <ndbecker2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I wonder if there is a recommended approach to handle this issue.
> 
> Suppose objects of a class C are serialized using python standard pickling.  
> Later, suppose class C is changed, perhaps by adding a data member and a new 
> constructor argument.
> 
> It would see the pickling protocol does not directly provide for this - but is 
> there a recommended method?
> 
> I could imagine that a class could include a class __version__ property that 
> might be useful - although I would further expect that it would not have been 
> defined in the original version of class C (but only as an afterthought when it 
> became necessary).
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

i guess a easy answer is to say to try python 3.3 but how would this translate in
python (2) code ?



From christophe at vandeplas.com  Fri Oct 12 08:40:21 2012
From: christophe at vandeplas.com (Christophe Vandeplas)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 14:40:21 +0200
Subject: deque and thread-safety
Message-ID: <CACjrQ-VvAdgCt7jnBANxSVkEFgdxrPqHZx3VKxPD9Edk7TDi7w@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I have a question about deque and thread-safety.

My application has multiple threads running concurrently and doing the
same action (downloading pages)
To know what has already been downloaded I created the variable:
  seen = deque('', 1000)   (keeps list of max 1000 urls in memory)

In one place of the code I do:  seen.append(url)

And another place:
def seenPage()
  if url in seen:
    return True
  return False

>From the documentation I understand that deques are thread-safe:
> Deques are a generalization of stacks and queues (the name is pronounced ?deck?
> and is short for ?double-ended queue?). Deques support thread-safe, memory
> efficient appends and pops from either side of the deque with approximately the
> same O(1) performance in either direction.

It seems that appending to deques is indeed thread-safe, but not
iterating over them.
I've seen a similar, but different, situation here:
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.devel/85487

Forgetting the above url, and considering my situation this behavior
screws up the concept I need:
- Keeping a thread-safe collection of seen urls,
- Being able to check if something is in that collection
- No need to clean the collection to prevent the memory from filling up

So I know I could work around this problem by using a lock.
But then I don't only need to use the lock around the iterator, but
also around the append(), but that defeats the purpose of deque being
thread-safe.

In short, what's your advice:

1/ build a lock around the .append() and the iterator. Using the
already-existing lock in the deque. But HOW?

1/ simply build a lock around the .append() and the iterator.
Defeating the build-in thread-safety.

2/ use another collection that does what I need


Thanks for your expertise.

Christophe


From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 08:50:56 2012
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 08:50:56 -0400
Subject: serialization and versioning
References: <k58s5q$vho$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<20121012070437.1cd761851f5df2acb7e088ac@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k593nf$1fn$1@ger.gmane.org>

Etienne Robillard wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 06:42:03 -0400
> Neal Becker <ndbecker2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I wonder if there is a recommended approach to handle this issue.
>> 
>> Suppose objects of a class C are serialized using python standard pickling.
>> Later, suppose class C is changed, perhaps by adding a data member and a new
>> constructor argument.
>> 
>> It would see the pickling protocol does not directly provide for this - but
>> is there a recommended method?
>> 
>> I could imagine that a class could include a class __version__ property that
>> might be useful - although I would further expect that it would not have been
>> defined in the original version of class C (but only as an afterthought when
>> it became necessary).
>> 
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> i guess a easy answer is to say to try python 3.3 but how would this translate
> in python (2) code ?

So are you saying python 3.3 has such a feature?  Where is it described?



From christophe at vandeplas.com  Fri Oct 12 08:59:16 2012
From: christophe at vandeplas.com (Christophe Vandeplas)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 14:59:16 +0200
Subject: deque and thread-safety
In-Reply-To: <CACjrQ-VvAdgCt7jnBANxSVkEFgdxrPqHZx3VKxPD9Edk7TDi7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACjrQ-VvAdgCt7jnBANxSVkEFgdxrPqHZx3VKxPD9Edk7TDi7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACjrQ-VxwaVM-d0-0rmySD5mVK-NVc4XFRXptf5raxfKvAYJKg@mail.gmail.com>

Ok sorry for the mail,
I found the solution by using deque.count(url) that's available
starting from python 2.7


On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Christophe Vandeplas
<christophe at vandeplas.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have a question about deque and thread-safety.
>
> My application has multiple threads running concurrently and doing the
> same action (downloading pages)
> To know what has already been downloaded I created the variable:
>   seen = deque('', 1000)   (keeps list of max 1000 urls in memory)
>
> In one place of the code I do:  seen.append(url)
>
> And another place:
> def seenPage()
>   if url in seen:
>     return True
>   return False
>
> From the documentation I understand that deques are thread-safe:
>> Deques are a generalization of stacks and queues (the name is pronounced ?deck?
>> and is short for ?double-ended queue?). Deques support thread-safe, memory
>> efficient appends and pops from either side of the deque with approximately the
>> same O(1) performance in either direction.
>
> It seems that appending to deques is indeed thread-safe, but not
> iterating over them.
> I've seen a similar, but different, situation here:
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.devel/85487
>
> Forgetting the above url, and considering my situation this behavior
> screws up the concept I need:
> - Keeping a thread-safe collection of seen urls,
> - Being able to check if something is in that collection
> - No need to clean the collection to prevent the memory from filling up
>
> So I know I could work around this problem by using a lock.
> But then I don't only need to use the lock around the iterator, but
> also around the append(), but that defeats the purpose of deque being
> thread-safe.
>
> In short, what's your advice:
>
> 1/ build a lock around the .append() and the iterator. Using the
> already-existing lock in the deque. But HOW?
>
> 1/ simply build a lock around the .append() and the iterator.
> Defeating the build-in thread-safety.
>
> 2/ use another collection that does what I need
>
>
> Thanks for your expertise.
>
> Christophe


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 09:26:19 2012
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 14:26:19 +0100
Subject: serialization and versioning
In-Reply-To: <k58s5q$vho$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <k58s5q$vho$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <k595pq$kjn$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/12/12 11:42 AM, Neal Becker wrote:
> I wonder if there is a recommended approach to handle this issue.
>
> Suppose objects of a class C are serialized using python standard pickling.
> Later, suppose class C is changed, perhaps by adding a data member and a new
> constructor argument.
>
> It would see the pickling protocol does not directly provide for this - but is
> there a recommended method?
>
> I could imagine that a class could include a class __version__ property that
> might be useful - although I would further expect that it would not have been
> defined in the original version of class C (but only as an afterthought when it
> became necessary).

You don't need to add anything to the actual attributes on the class. Just 
define your __getstate__() dict to include a '__version__' item. You can treat 
the absence of '__version__' in the dict that __setstate__() receives as 
implying "version 0".

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From solipsis at pitrou.net  Fri Oct 12 09:31:22 2012
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 13:31:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Posix call (execve) breaks mercurial?
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1210111751490.16777@gilgamesh>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1210111831010.16777@gilgamesh>
Message-ID: <loom.20121012T153042-458@post.gmane.org>


Hello,

Wayne Werner <wayne <at> waynewerner.com> writes:
> 
> So... curiouser and curiouser - it looks like it's not *actually* execve's 
> fault after all. I just compiled the code from the man page, tweaked it to 
> run 'hg root', and passed it a new environment. No problems. Well, then I 
> manually called the posix one from Python and thing worked fine. *Then* I 
> actually tried the above code, and *it* worked fine.
> 
> However I *still* get problems with the post-review code. So it looks like 
> when I get back to work on Monday I'll be looking to see  what the 
> difference in environment is there.

Your problem is a user question for the Mercurial mailing-list, not a Python
problem. See http://selenic.com/mailman/listinfo/mercurial

Regards

Antoine.




From solipsis at pitrou.net  Fri Oct 12 09:36:24 2012
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 13:36:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: deque and thread-safety
References: <CACjrQ-VvAdgCt7jnBANxSVkEFgdxrPqHZx3VKxPD9Edk7TDi7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20121012T153315-913@post.gmane.org>


Hello,

Christophe Vandeplas <christophe <at> vandeplas.com> writes:
> 
> From the documentation I understand that deques are thread-safe:
> > Deques are a generalization of stacks and queues (the name is pronounced 
?deck?
> > and is short for ?double-ended queue?). Deques support thread-safe, memory
> > efficient appends and pops from either side of the deque with approximately 
the
> > same O(1) performance in either direction.
> 
> It seems that appending to deques is indeed thread-safe, but not
> iterating over them.

Indeed, if you read the above sentence, deques only support "thread-safe [...] 
appends and pops". Other operations are not necessarily thread-safe.
Moreover, any operation which will call back into Python (such as iterating
several times) are *not* thread-safe.

Regardless, deques are not the right container for containment tests
("url in seen"). Like with lists or tuples, a containment test in a deque will 
be O(n). So if you want efficient containment tests, you should use a set or a 
dict.

Regards

Antoine.




From moogyd at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Oct 12 10:09:08 2012
From: moogyd at yahoo.co.uk (moogyd at yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 07:09:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Basic JSON question: Do I really need the quotes
Message-ID: <cbd2f125-38ca-4f46-9077-95de0cf7ea6f@googlegroups.com>

Hi,
I need to define some configuration in a file that will be manually created.
Internally, the data will be stored as a dict, which contains various properties related to a design
e.g. Design Name, dependencies, lists of files (and associated libraries).
json seemed a quick an easy way of achieving this
Anyway, in simple terms my question - if I know everything is a string, how can I omit the quotation marks?

i.e. I can do

>>> json.loads('{"mykey":["data0", "data1"]}')
{u'mykey': [u'data0', u'data1']}

But I would like to do
>>> json.loads('{mykey:[data0, data1]}')
Traceback (most recent call last):

The problem is that I don't want to make users have to type redundant characters.
Is it possible?
Thanks,
Steven







From kwpolska at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 10:14:35 2012
From: kwpolska at gmail.com (Kwpolska)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 16:14:35 +0200
Subject: Basic JSON question: Do I really need the quotes
In-Reply-To: <cbd2f125-38ca-4f46-9077-95de0cf7ea6f@googlegroups.com>
References: <cbd2f125-38ca-4f46-9077-95de0cf7ea6f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAMw+j7LbbFCUkB4gw8EekZnh0ZVat0ae6-1ykCL7WMWLHZApFQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 4:09 PM,  <moogyd at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi,
> I need to define some configuration in a file that will be manually created.
> Internally, the data will be stored as a dict, which contains various properties related to a design
> e.g. Design Name, dependencies, lists of files (and associated libraries).
> json seemed a quick an easy way of achieving this
> Anyway, in simple terms my question - if I know everything is a string, how can I omit the quotation marks?

Nope.  JSON has those rules for a reason.  You need to be specific.  A
more ?human-friendly? format is the one used by ConfigParser (close to
INI, but not quite).

Also, JSON is supposed to be generated by computers, not humans.
-- 
Kwpolska <http://kwpolska.tk>
stop html mail      | always bottom-post
www.asciiribbon.org | www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
GPG KEY: 5EAAEA16


From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Fri Oct 12 11:36:27 2012
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 08:36:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Checking for dlls in ctypes
Message-ID: <975da919-c70a-492a-9d49-62254a76eb6c@googlegroups.com>

I'm trying to write some code that will load one of three dll depending on the one available. I've tried the code below, but it doesn't work. The try except doesn't catch the exception. Is there a way to do this?

        try:
            self.dll = windll.pvcam64
        except:
            print "No pvcam64"
            try:
                self.dll = windll.pvcam32
            except:
                print "No pvcam32"
                try:
                    self.dll = windll.pvcam
                except:
                    print "No pvcam"
                    return
                else:
                    print "installed pvcam"
            else:
                print "installed pvcam32"
        else:
            print "installed pvcam64"



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Oct 12 12:16:52 2012
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 09:16:52 -0700
Subject: __setitem__ without position
In-Reply-To: <k57lr2$umt$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CA+C4C6c7GBdxs+jZPGNrpauvZXP7caGpPb8Q466HD7mV09731Q@mail.gmail.com>	<CA+C4C6eMKa6i4Vk4b7hc8SxyDyutoRKkP9VLt0g3UWs+v5ehTw@mail.gmail.com>	<50773AE5.7020400@davea.name>
	<k57lr2$umt$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <50784274.3000705@stoneleaf.us>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> In 3.x, you would write __setitem__ to recognize that the 'key' is a 
> slice object rather than an int and act accordingly. (In 2.x, you would 
> write __setslice__.) 

I'm not sure how far back it goes, but at least from 2.4 forward 
__setitem__ works with slices just fine.

~Ethan~


From d at davea.name  Fri Oct 12 12:28:17 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 12:28:17 -0400
Subject: Checking for dlls in ctypes
In-Reply-To: <975da919-c70a-492a-9d49-62254a76eb6c@googlegroups.com>
References: <975da919-c70a-492a-9d49-62254a76eb6c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50784521.9000207@davea.name>

On 10/12/2012 11:36 AM, Wanderer wrote:
> I'm trying to write some code that will load one of three dll depending on the one available. I've tried the code below, but it doesn't work. The try except doesn't catch the exception. Is there a way to do this?
>
>         try:
>             self.dll = windll.pvcam64
>         except:
>             print "No pvcam64"
>             try:
>                 self.dll = windll.pvcam32
>             except:
>                 print "No pvcam32"
>                 try:
>                     self.dll = windll.pvcam
>                 except:
>                     print "No pvcam"
>                     return
>                 else:
>                     print "installed pvcam"
>             else:
>                 print "installed pvcam32"
>         else:
>             print "installed pvcam64"
>

I can't help you find the dll's, because I don't run Windows.  But I
could help you write a clearer question:

"doesn't work" is thoroughly useless for describing errors.  If you're
getting an exception, show us the full traceback.  That will show which
statement got the exception that wasn't caught.  Next question is which
of the dlls is missing.  Are you getting an exception because it's
missing or because of something more fundamental, like nesting exception
handlers?

Using bare excepts is almost never a good idea.  If it "works" you get
no clues what went wrong.  For example, a typo in source code can
trigger a bare exception, as can a user typing Ctrl-C.   So when you're
using bare excepts, you have robbed the user of any way to terminate the
program.

If I were you, I'd be writing a loop so there's only one try block.  Too
much duplicated code in the way you're doing it.



-- 

DaveA



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Oct 12 12:42:37 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 18:42:37 +0200
Subject: __setitem__ without position
References: <CA+C4C6c7GBdxs+jZPGNrpauvZXP7caGpPb8Q466HD7mV09731Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+C4C6eMKa6i4Vk4b7hc8SxyDyutoRKkP9VLt0g3UWs+v5ehTw@mail.gmail.com>
	<50773AE5.7020400@davea.name> <k57lr2$umt$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<50784274.3000705@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <k59h8r$4ae$1@ger.gmane.org>

Ethan Furman wrote:

> Terry Reedy wrote:
>> In 3.x, you would write __setitem__ to recognize that the 'key' is a
>> slice object rather than an int and act accordingly. (In 2.x, you would
>> write __setslice__.)
> 
> I'm not sure how far back it goes, but at least from 2.4 forward
> __setitem__ works with slices just fine.

The __...slice__() methods are deprecated since 2.0.

http://docs.python.org/release/2.0/ref/sequence-methods.html



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Oct 12 12:57:02 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 17:57:02 +0100
Subject: Checking for dlls in ctypes
In-Reply-To: <975da919-c70a-492a-9d49-62254a76eb6c@googlegroups.com>
References: <975da919-c70a-492a-9d49-62254a76eb6c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50784BDE.7070503@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-12 16:36, Wanderer wrote:
> I'm trying to write some code that will load one of three dll depending on the one available. I've tried the code below, but it doesn't work. The try except doesn't catch the exception. Is there a way to do this?
>
>          try:
>              self.dll = windll.pvcam64
>          except:
>              print "No pvcam64"
>              try:
>                  self.dll = windll.pvcam32
>              except:
>                  print "No pvcam32"
>                  try:
>                      self.dll = windll.pvcam
>                  except:
>                      print "No pvcam"
>                      return
>                  else:
>                      print "installed pvcam"
>              else:
>                  print "installed pvcam32"
>          else:
>              print "installed pvcam64"
>
This works for me:

     for name in ("pvcam64", "pvcam32", "pvcam"):
         try:
             self.dll = getattr(windll, name)
         except OSError:
             print "No " + name
         else:
             print "Installed " + name
             return



From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 13:14:49 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 18:14:49 +0100
Subject: Insert item before each element of a list
In-Reply-To: <k516r5$2pd$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <fc55bb2e-fdc0-405c-89b5-290aa4fc6c63@googlegroups.com>
	<XnsA0E780DF73B31duncanbooth@127.0.0.1> <k516r5$2pd$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qWxNLSJnQ5CN7g1qDFoUPgK2hXZK-58wyxCGNySUCcj8g@mail.gmail.com>

On 9 October 2012 13:55, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

> Duncan Booth wrote:
>
> > mooremathewl at gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> What's the best way to accomplish this?  Am I over-complicating it?
> >> My gut feeling is there is a better way than the following:
> >>
> >>>>> import itertools
> >>>>> x = [1, 2, 3]
> >>>>> y = list(itertools.chain.from_iterable(('insertme', x[i]) for i in
> >>>>> range(len(x)))) y
> >> ['insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3]
> >>
> >> I appreciate any and all feedback.
> >>
> >
> > Given the myriad of proposed solutions, I'm surprised nobody has
> suggested
> > good old list slicing:
>
> My post on gmane
>
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/718940/focus=718947
>
> apparently didn't make it through to the list.
>
> >>>> x = [1,2,3]
> >>>> y = ['insertme']*(2*len(x))
> >>>> y[1::2] = x
> >>>> y
> > ['insertme', 1, 'insertme', 2, 'insertme', 3]
>
> An advantage of this approach -- it is usually much faster.
>

It did, at least for me. People often don't see my posts too, I've been
told. That said, sometimes people just skim threads so it may have been
that.

On topic, the best methods are either:

inserts = itertools.repeat("insert")

itertools.chain.from_iterable(zip(lst, inserts))


or the more explicit:

def interleave(*lsts):

    interleaved_in_tuples = zip(*lsts)

    return itertools.chain.from_iterable(interleaved_in_tuples)



inserts = itertools.repeat("insert")
> interleave(inserts, lst)


They explain what they want and they do it. Anyone who's interleaving
without zip needs to re-read the built-ins. The manual two-yields is good,
too, but it's much less flexible. If the speed benefits of slicing are
important but the scaling is not, you really shouldn't be using CPython.
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From roel at roelschroeven.net  Fri Oct 12 13:27:05 2012
From: roel at roelschroeven.net (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 19:27:05 +0200
Subject: Basic JSON question: Do I really need the quotes
In-Reply-To: <cbd2f125-38ca-4f46-9077-95de0cf7ea6f@googlegroups.com>
References: <cbd2f125-38ca-4f46-9077-95de0cf7ea6f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k59jt5$s7q$1@ger.gmane.org>

moogyd at yahoo.co.uk schreef:
> Hi,
> I need to define some configuration in a file that will be manually created.
> Internally, the data will be stored as a dict, which contains various properties related to a design
> e.g. Design Name, dependencies, lists of files (and associated libraries).
> json seemed a quick an easy way of achieving this
> Anyway, in simple terms my question - if I know everything is a string, how can I omit the quotation marks?
> 
> The problem is that I don't want to make users have to type redundant characters.
> Is it possible?

Not in JSON. Maybe you could try YAML?

-- 
"Too often we hold fast to the cliches of our forebears. We subject all
facts to a prefabricated set of interpretations. Too often we enjoy the
comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
         -- John F Kennedy

roel at roelschroeven.net



From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Fri Oct 12 13:52:38 2012
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 10:52:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Checking for dlls in ctypes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2094.1350061025.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <975da919-c70a-492a-9d49-62254a76eb6c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2094.1350061025.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cd188643-162a-483f-bb68-6ea48c50a503@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, October 12, 2012 12:57:06 PM UTC-4, MRAB wrote:
> On 2012-10-12 16:36, Wanderer wrote:
> 
> > I'm trying to write some code that will load one of three dll depending on the one available. I've tried the code below, but it doesn't work. The try except doesn't catch the exception. Is there a way to do this?
> 
> >
> 
> >          try:
> 
> >              self.dll = windll.pvcam64
> 
> >          except:
> 
> >              print "No pvcam64"
> 
> >              try:
> 
> >                  self.dll = windll.pvcam32
> 
> >              except:
> 
> >                  print "No pvcam32"
> 
> >                  try:
> 
> >                      self.dll = windll.pvcam
> 
> >                  except:
> 
> >                      print "No pvcam"
> 
> >                      return
> 
> >                  else:
> 
> >                      print "installed pvcam"
> 
> >              else:
> 
> >                  print "installed pvcam32"
> 
> >          else:
> 
> >              print "installed pvcam64"
> 
> >
> 
> This works for me:
> 
> 
> 
>      for name in ("pvcam64", "pvcam32", "pvcam"):
> 
>          try:
> 
>              self.dll = getattr(windll, name)
> 
>          except OSError:
> 
>              print "No " + name
> 
>          else:
> 
>              print "Installed " + name
> 
>              return

Yes that works for me, too. Thanks


From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Fri Oct 12 13:52:38 2012
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 10:52:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Checking for dlls in ctypes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2094.1350061025.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <975da919-c70a-492a-9d49-62254a76eb6c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2094.1350061025.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cd188643-162a-483f-bb68-6ea48c50a503@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, October 12, 2012 12:57:06 PM UTC-4, MRAB wrote:
> On 2012-10-12 16:36, Wanderer wrote:
> 
> > I'm trying to write some code that will load one of three dll depending on the one available. I've tried the code below, but it doesn't work. The try except doesn't catch the exception. Is there a way to do this?
> 
> >
> 
> >          try:
> 
> >              self.dll = windll.pvcam64
> 
> >          except:
> 
> >              print "No pvcam64"
> 
> >              try:
> 
> >                  self.dll = windll.pvcam32
> 
> >              except:
> 
> >                  print "No pvcam32"
> 
> >                  try:
> 
> >                      self.dll = windll.pvcam
> 
> >                  except:
> 
> >                      print "No pvcam"
> 
> >                      return
> 
> >                  else:
> 
> >                      print "installed pvcam"
> 
> >              else:
> 
> >                  print "installed pvcam32"
> 
> >          else:
> 
> >              print "installed pvcam64"
> 
> >
> 
> This works for me:
> 
> 
> 
>      for name in ("pvcam64", "pvcam32", "pvcam"):
> 
>          try:
> 
>              self.dll = getattr(windll, name)
> 
>          except OSError:
> 
>              print "No " + name
> 
>          else:
> 
>              print "Installed " + name
> 
>              return

Yes that works for me, too. Thanks


From awilliam at whitemice.org  Fri Oct 12 13:52:42 2012
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 13:52:42 -0400
Subject: Basic JSON question: Do I really need the quotes
In-Reply-To: <k59jt5$s7q$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <cbd2f125-38ca-4f46-9077-95de0cf7ea6f@googlegroups.com>
	<k59jt5$s7q$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1350064362.5245.26.camel@linux-nysu.site>

On Fri, 2012-10-12 at 19:27 +0200, Roel Schroeven wrote:
> moogyd at yahoo.co.uk schreef:
> > Hi,
> > I need to define some configuration in a file that will be manually created.
> > Internally, the data will be stored as a dict, which contains various properties related to a design
> > e.g. Design Name, dependencies, lists of files (and associated libraries).
> > json seemed a quick an easy way of achieving this
> > Ayway, in simple terms my question - if I know everything is a string, how can I omit the quotation marks?
> > The problem is that I don't want to make users have to type redundant characters.
> > Is it possible?
> Not in JSON. Maybe you could try YAML?

If you want a human-readable human-editable markup for data structures I
strongly encourage you to look at YAML.  JSON is not wetware friendly.



From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Fri Oct 12 13:57:09 2012
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 10:57:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Checking for dlls in ctypes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2092.1350059331.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <975da919-c70a-492a-9d49-62254a76eb6c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2092.1350059331.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f8610ca5-d92d-4755-96b1-4abd79de6a0f@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, October 12, 2012 12:29:02 PM UTC-4, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 10/12/2012 11:36 AM, Wanderer wrote:
> 
> > I'm trying to write some code that will load one of three dll depending on the one available. I've tried the code below, but it doesn't work. The try except doesn't catch the exception. Is there a way to do this?
> 
> >
> 
> >         try:
> 
> >             self.dll = windll.pvcam64
> 
> >         except:
> 
> >             print "No pvcam64"
> 
> >             try:
> 
> >                 self.dll = windll.pvcam32
> 
> >             except:
> 
> >                 print "No pvcam32"
> 
> >                 try:
> 
> >                     self.dll = windll.pvcam
> 
> >                 except:
> 
> >                     print "No pvcam"
> 
> >                     return
> 
> >                 else:
> 
> >                     print "installed pvcam"
> 
> >             else:
> 
> >                 print "installed pvcam32"
> 
> >         else:
> 
> >             print "installed pvcam64"
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> I can't help you find the dll's, because I don't run Windows.  But I
> 
> could help you write a clearer question:
> 
> 
> 
> "doesn't work" is thoroughly useless for describing errors.  If you're
> 
> getting an exception, show us the full traceback.  That will show which
> 
> statement got the exception that wasn't caught.  Next question is which
> 
> of the dlls is missing.  Are you getting an exception because it's
> 
> missing or because of something more fundamental, like nesting exception
> 
> handlers?
> 
> 
> 
> Using bare excepts is almost never a good idea.  If it "works" you get
> 
> no clues what went wrong.  For example, a typo in source code can
> 
> trigger a bare exception, as can a user typing Ctrl-C.   So when you're
> 
> using bare excepts, you have robbed the user of any way to terminate the
> 
> program.
> 
> 
> 
> If I were you, I'd be writing a loop so there's only one try block.  Too
> 
> much duplicated code in the way you're doing it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> DaveA

Sorry. It was a WindowsError, but the code I posted now works for me and I can't reproduce the problem. I'll be more diligent in the future.


From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Fri Oct 12 13:57:09 2012
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 10:57:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Checking for dlls in ctypes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2092.1350059331.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <975da919-c70a-492a-9d49-62254a76eb6c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2092.1350059331.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f8610ca5-d92d-4755-96b1-4abd79de6a0f@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, October 12, 2012 12:29:02 PM UTC-4, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 10/12/2012 11:36 AM, Wanderer wrote:
> 
> > I'm trying to write some code that will load one of three dll depending on the one available. I've tried the code below, but it doesn't work. The try except doesn't catch the exception. Is there a way to do this?
> 
> >
> 
> >         try:
> 
> >             self.dll = windll.pvcam64
> 
> >         except:
> 
> >             print "No pvcam64"
> 
> >             try:
> 
> >                 self.dll = windll.pvcam32
> 
> >             except:
> 
> >                 print "No pvcam32"
> 
> >                 try:
> 
> >                     self.dll = windll.pvcam
> 
> >                 except:
> 
> >                     print "No pvcam"
> 
> >                     return
> 
> >                 else:
> 
> >                     print "installed pvcam"
> 
> >             else:
> 
> >                 print "installed pvcam32"
> 
> >         else:
> 
> >             print "installed pvcam64"
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> I can't help you find the dll's, because I don't run Windows.  But I
> 
> could help you write a clearer question:
> 
> 
> 
> "doesn't work" is thoroughly useless for describing errors.  If you're
> 
> getting an exception, show us the full traceback.  That will show which
> 
> statement got the exception that wasn't caught.  Next question is which
> 
> of the dlls is missing.  Are you getting an exception because it's
> 
> missing or because of something more fundamental, like nesting exception
> 
> handlers?
> 
> 
> 
> Using bare excepts is almost never a good idea.  If it "works" you get
> 
> no clues what went wrong.  For example, a typo in source code can
> 
> trigger a bare exception, as can a user typing Ctrl-C.   So when you're
> 
> using bare excepts, you have robbed the user of any way to terminate the
> 
> program.
> 
> 
> 
> If I were you, I'd be writing a loop so there's only one try block.  Too
> 
> much duplicated code in the way you're doing it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> DaveA

Sorry. It was a WindowsError, but the code I posted now works for me and I can't reproduce the problem. I'll be more diligent in the future.


From sorsorday at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 18:51:19 2012
From: sorsorday at gmail.com (Herman)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 15:51:19 -0700
Subject: How to use "while" within the command in -c option of python?
Message-ID: <CANOe_mhhn31Qb2iB1nWydWSm=MJ0xK0o5vxWR+mLeO5ggqwmwQ@mail.gmail.com>

 python -c "import os; while True: print('hello')"
 File "<string>", line 1
 import os; while True: print('hello')
                      ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax


From animelovin at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 19:04:20 2012
From: animelovin at gmail.com (Etienne Robillard)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 19:04:20 -0400
Subject: How to use "while" within the command in -c option of python?
In-Reply-To: <CANOe_mhhn31Qb2iB1nWydWSm=MJ0xK0o5vxWR+mLeO5ggqwmwQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOe_mhhn31Qb2iB1nWydWSm=MJ0xK0o5vxWR+mLeO5ggqwmwQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121012190420.d1c58756f68f49e40ba818d8@gmail.com>

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 15:51:19 -0700
Herman <sorsorday at gmail.com> wrote:

>  python -c "import os; while True: print('hello')"
>  File "<string>", line 1
>  import os; while True: print('hello')
>                       ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

You get a syntax error since you didn't used tabs indents in your string
which is normal for python AFAIK.


From roy at panix.com  Fri Oct 12 20:03:44 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 20:03:44 -0400
Subject: Basic JSON question: Do I really need the quotes
References: <cbd2f125-38ca-4f46-9077-95de0cf7ea6f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-6ED2F5.20034412102012@news.panix.com>

In article <cbd2f125-38ca-4f46-9077-95de0cf7ea6f at googlegroups.com>,
 moogyd at yahoo.co.uk wrote:

> I need to define some configuration in a file that will be manually created.
> [...]
> json seemed a quick an easy way of achieving this

JSON would not be my first choice for a file which needs to be 
maintained by hand.

I've only recently started using a system that has YAML config files.  
I've quickly become enamored of the format for config files.  I don't 
know if it's capable of expressing everything you can with JSON, but it 
certainly can do anything you would reasonably want to put in a config 
file, it's easy to read, and easy to hand-edit.

> The problem is that I don't want to make users have to type redundant 
> characters.

I think what you're saying is, "My users would prefer YAML over JSON" :-)


From tavares at fe.up.pt  Fri Oct 12 20:04:00 2012
From: tavares at fe.up.pt (tavares at fe.up.pt)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 17:04:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?New_Taylor_=26_Francis_Int=2E_Journal_=93CMBBE=3A_Imaging_?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?=26_Visualization=94=3A_Announcement_and_CfP?=
Message-ID: <2440a16b-5509-43b5-951e-d31cf8814d18@googlegroups.com>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Announcement and Call for Contributions

New International Journal: Computer Methods in Biomechanics and Biomedical Engineering: Imaging & Visualization

Publisher: Taylor & Francis Group, ISSN: 2168-1163 (print) - 2168-1171 (online)

Editor-in-Chief: Prof. Jo?o Manuel R. S. Tavares - University of Porto, Portugal

Journal webpage: http://www.tandfonline.com/tciv

Journal in Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/Cmbbe.Image.Visualization

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Colleague,

I would like to introduce you the new international journal ?Computer Methods in Biomechanics and Biomedical Engineering: Imaging & Visualization? (CMBBE: Imaging & Visualization) to be published by Taylor & Francis Group (T&F).
Your contribution will be welcome.

My best regards,

Jo?o Manuel R. S. Tavares
(Editor-in-chief of CMBBE: Imaging & Visualization)


AIMS & SCOPE

Computer Methods in Biomechanics and Biomedical Engineering: Imaging & Visualization is an international journal whose main goals are to promote solutions of excellence for both imaging and visualization of biomedical data, and establish links among researchers, clinicians, the medical technology sector and end-users.
The journal provides a comprehensive forum for discussion of the current state-of-the-art in the scientific fields related to imaging and visualization, including, but not limited to:

- Applications of Imaging and Visualization
- Computational Bio- imaging and Visualization
- Computer Aided Diagnosis, Surgery, Therapy and Treatment
- Data Processing and Analysis
- Devices for Imaging and Visualization
- Grid and High Performance Computing for Imaging and Visualization
- Human Perception in Imaging and Visualization
- Image Processing and Analysis
- Image-based Geometric Modelling
- Imaging and Visualization in Biomechanics
- Imaging and Visualization in Biomedical Engineering
- Medical Clinics
- Medical Imaging and Visualization
- Multi-modal Imaging and Visualization
- Multiscale Imaging and Visualization
- Scientific Visualization
- Software Development for Imaging and Visualization
- Telemedicine Systems and Applications
- Virtual Reality
- Visual Data Mining and Knowledge Discovery

The journal welcomes contributions covering theories, methodologies, devices and applications of imaging and visualization and assures a fast publishing process of original research manuscripts, position manuscripts expressing stimulating viewpoints and philosophies, survey manuscripts, technical notes and short communications, in regular and special issues.


BOARDS

Advisory Board
- Chandrajit Bajaj, University of Texas at Austin, USA 
- Chris Johnson, University of Utah, USA
- Demetri Terzopoulos, University of California, Los Angeles, USA
- John Middleton, Cardiff University, UK
- Jos Vander Sloten, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, Belgium 
- Shuo Li, University of Western Ontario, Canada
- Thomas J. R. Hughes, University of Texas at Austin, USA

Associated Editors
- USA and Canada: Yongjie Zhang, Carnegie Mellon University, USA
- Asia: Jun Zhao, Shanghai Jiao Tong University, China
- Europe: Daniela Iacoviello, Universit? degli Studi di Roma "La Sapienza", Italy
- Rest of the world: Zeyun Yu, University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee, USA

Editorial Board
- Alejandro Frangi, University of Sheffield, Sheffield, UK
- Alexandre Cunha, California Institute of Technology, USA 
- Alexandre X. Falc?o, Universidade Estadual de Campinas, Brazil
- Bernard Gosselin, University of Mons, Belgium
- Christos E. Constantinou, Stanford University, USA
- Constantine Kotropoulos, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, Greece 
- Daniel Cremers, Technische Universit?t M?nchen, Germany 
- David Steinman, University of Toronto, Canada
- Durval C. Costa, Funda??o Champalimaud, Portugal
- Eduardo Soudah, International Center for Numerical Methods in Engineering, Spain
- Fatima L. S. Nunes, Universidade de S?o Paulo, Brazil
- Fiorella Sgallari, University of Bologna, Italy
- George Bebis, University of Nevada, USA
- Joachim Hornegger, Friedrich-Alexander University Erlangen-Nuremberg, Germany
- Jo?o Paulo Papa, Universidade Estadual Paulista, Brazil
- Jorge S. Marques, Instituto Superior T?cnico, Portugal
- Khan M Iftekharuddin, Old Dominion University, USA
- Laurent Cohen, Universite Paris Dauphine, France
- Lionel Moisan, Universit? Paris Descartes, France
- Lorenzo Mannelli, University of Washington, USA
- M. Emre Celebi, Louisiana State University in Shreveport, USA
- Manuel Gonz?lez Hidalgo, Balearic Islands University, Spain
- Marc Thiriet, Universite Pierre et Marie Curie (Paris VI), France
- M?rio Forjaz Secca, Universidade Nova de Lisboa, Portugal 
- Nicolai Petkov, University of Groningen, The Netherlands 
- Paola Lecca, University of Trento, Italy
- Paolo Di Giamberardino, Sapienza University of Rome, Italy 
- Valentin Brimkov, State University of New York, USA
- Reneta Barneva, State University of New York Fredonia, USA 
- Xue-Cheng Tai, University of Bergen, Norway
- Yan Nei Law, Bioinformatics Institute, Singapore


INSTRUCTIONS FOR SUBMISSION (while the T&F electronic submission system is not ready):

- Manuscripts should be sent by email directly to the Editor-in-Chief (tavares at fe.up.pt) in Adobe Acrobat Format (pdf); 
- 15 to 30 A4 pages in one column double spaced should be assumed;
- The manuscript must provide authors? names, affiliation and emails, and should include title, abstract and keywords;
- Authors are invited to suggest three names of the Editorial Board for the review process.



For more details, you are invited to visit: http://www.tandfonline.com/tciv and http://www.facebook.com/Cmbbe.Image.Visualization


From d at davea.name  Fri Oct 12 20:29:48 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 20:29:48 -0400
Subject: How to use "while" within the command in -c option of python?
In-Reply-To: <CANOe_mhhn31Qb2iB1nWydWSm=MJ0xK0o5vxWR+mLeO5ggqwmwQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOe_mhhn31Qb2iB1nWydWSm=MJ0xK0o5vxWR+mLeO5ggqwmwQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5078B5FC.1030107@davea.name>

On 10/12/2012 06:51 PM, Herman wrote:
>  python -c "import os; while True: print('hello')"
>  File "<string>", line 1
>  import os; while True: print('hello')
>                       ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
See the recent thread:
   "for-loop on cmd-line"

The problem has nothing to do with the command line, it's caused by
trying to use a keyword 'while' somewhere other than the beginning of
the statement.

I'll ask you the same question I had:  why do you bother?  What's wrong
with making a separate file for the source code?

But as for solutions, first question is what OS you're running on.  If
not Windows, you can probably use \n at appropriate points.

If that's not good enough, what about simply running the script instead
of a batch file?

If that's not good enough, how about merging the two languages, with a
trick like starting the python code with rem = """  followed by the
shell script?

There are many others, but we cannot choose without knowing your other
constraints.



-- 

DaveA



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Oct 12 20:32:41 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 13 Oct 2012 00:32:41 GMT
Subject: How to use "while" within the command in -c option of python?
References: <CANOe_mhhn31Qb2iB1nWydWSm=MJ0xK0o5vxWR+mLeO5ggqwmwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2101.1350083051.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5078b6a9$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 19:04:20 -0400, Etienne Robillard wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 15:51:19 -0700
> Herman <sorsorday at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>  python -c "import os; while True: print('hello')" File "<string>",
>>  line 1
>>  import os; while True: print('hello')
>>                       ^
>> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> You get a syntax error since you didn't used tabs indents in your string
> which is normal for python AFAIK.

Incorrect. Python lets you use either spaces or tabs for indents, and in 
this case the SyntaxError is BEFORE the missing indent. He gets 
SyntaxError because you can't follow a semicolon with a statement that 
begins a block. It's the `while` that causes the error, not the lack of 
indent. Here's an example with `if` and an indented block that also 
fails:


[steve at ando ~]$ python -c "pass; pass"
[steve at ando ~]$ python -c "pass; if True:        pass"
  File "<string>", line 1
    pass; if True:       pass
           ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax


Solution: don't use semi-colons, use newlines.

In this example, I use `Ctrl-Q ENTER` to insert a literal newline in the 
string, which shows as ^M. Note that you *cannot* just type ^ M (caret 
M), that won't work, it must be an actual control character.


[steve at ando ~]$ python -c 'import time^Mwhile True:^M    print("hello"); time.sleep(2)'
hello
hello
hello
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 3, in <module>
KeyboardInterrupt


In this example I just hit the Enter key to insert a newline, and let the 
shell deal with it. The ">" marks are part of the shell's prompt.

[steve at ando ~]$ python -c "import time
> while True:
>     print('hello'); time.sleep(2)"
hello
hello
hello
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 3, in <module>
KeyboardInterrupt




-- 
Steven


From sorsorday at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 20:55:49 2012
From: sorsorday at gmail.com (Herman)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 17:55:49 -0700
Subject: How to use "while" within the command in -c option of python?
In-Reply-To: <5078B5FC.1030107@davea.name>
References: <CANOe_mhhn31Qb2iB1nWydWSm=MJ0xK0o5vxWR+mLeO5ggqwmwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5078B5FC.1030107@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CANOe_mi+VEW6T0ec-kcohOuxN7O2A8V6QbbZrzQrYVZi+b7otQ@mail.gmail.com>

I was just trying to do in a shell to quickly monitor a file. Imagine
instead of printing hello, it is "os.system("cat somefile")", etc.
Look like it works if i press an enter after the "import xxx". Thanks.

On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 5:29 PM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:
> On 10/12/2012 06:51 PM, Herman wrote:
>>  python -c "import os; while True: print('hello')"
>>  File "<string>", line 1
>>  import os; while True: print('hello')
>>                       ^
>> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> See the recent thread:
>    "for-loop on cmd-line"
>
> The problem has nothing to do with the command line, it's caused by
> trying to use a keyword 'while' somewhere other than the beginning of
> the statement.
>
> I'll ask you the same question I had:  why do you bother?  What's wrong
> with making a separate file for the source code?
>
> But as for solutions, first question is what OS you're running on.  If
> not Windows, you can probably use \n at appropriate points.
>
> If that's not good enough, what about simply running the script instead
> of a batch file?
>
> If that's not good enough, how about merging the two languages, with a
> trick like starting the python code with rem = """  followed by the
> shell script?
>
> There are many others, but we cannot choose without knowing your other
> constraints.
>
>
>
> --
>
> DaveA
>


From nad at acm.org  Fri Oct 12 22:17:08 2012
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 19:17:08 -0700
Subject: How to use "while" within the command in -c option of python?
References: <CANOe_mhhn31Qb2iB1nWydWSm=MJ0xK0o5vxWR+mLeO5ggqwmwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5078B5FC.1030107@davea.name>
	<CANOe_mi+VEW6T0ec-kcohOuxN7O2A8V6QbbZrzQrYVZi+b7otQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <nad-3A6DAC.19170812102012@news.gmane.org>

In article 
<CANOe_mi+VEW6T0ec-kcohOuxN7O2A8V6QbbZrzQrYVZi+b7otQ at mail.gmail.com>,
 Herman <sorsorday at gmail.com> wrote:
> I was just trying to do in a shell to quickly monitor a file. Imagine
> instead of printing hello, it is "os.system("cat somefile")", etc.
> Look like it works if i press an enter after the "import xxx". Thanks.

If you are using a POSIX-compatible shell, the canonical approach for 
use cases like this is to use a "here document", for example:

python - <<EOF
import os
while True:
    print('hello')
EOF

The "-" tells the Python interpreter to read from stdin.  The shell 
supplies the lines between the <<EOF and the matching EOF as stdin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_document

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 23:30:47 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 20:30:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Basic JSON question: Do I really need the quotes
References: <cbd2f125-38ca-4f46-9077-95de0cf7ea6f@googlegroups.com>
	<roy-6ED2F5.20034412102012@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <8984e448-98b8-4710-9a43-40462ac35ffa@ro10g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 13, 5:03?am, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
> In article <cbd2f125-38ca-4f46-9077-95de0cf7ea6f at googlegroups.com>,
>
> ?moo... at yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> > I need to define some configuration in a file that will be manually created.
> > [...]
> > json seemed a quick an easy way of achieving this
>
> JSON would not be my first choice for a file which needs to be
> maintained by hand.
>
> I've only recently started using a system that has YAML config files.
> I've quickly become enamored of the format for config files. ?I don't
> know if it's capable of expressing everything you can with JSON, but it
> certainly can do anything you would reasonably want to put in a config
> file, it's easy to read, and easy to hand-edit.

Yaml is a superset of json http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YAML#JSON

I find it a bit mysterious: yaml's structure-via-indentation
philosophy makes it more in line with python than most other modern
languages. And yet its the ruby community that seems to most eagerly
embrace yaml. Specially ironic given that ruby's syntax is reminiscent
of Pascal -- statements dont just close with '}' but with 'end'


From nbvfour at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 00:49:55 2012
From: nbvfour at gmail.com (nbvfour at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 21:49:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
Message-ID: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>

http://giotto.readthedocs.org/en/latest/tutorial.html

Can someone give me some feedback on what they think of this framework? I came up with the idea of this framework a few months ago. I gave a talk at a local python user group regarding these ideas, but no one seemed to think I was onto anything special or useful.

Basically its a framework that forces the developer(s) to strictly separate the model from the view and controller. You can 'hook up' multiple controllers to a project. The model layer can be completely mocked out so front end designers don't have to bother setting up Postgres/rabbitmq/whatever.

Does anyone have any throughts or feedback?


From dieter at handshake.de  Sat Oct 13 02:23:14 2012
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 08:23:14 +0200
Subject: serialization and versioning
References: <k58s5q$vho$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <87hapyyjot.fsf@handshake.de>

Neal Becker <ndbecker2 at gmail.com> writes:

> I wonder if there is a recommended approach to handle this issue.
>
> Suppose objects of a class C are serialized using python standard pickling.  
> Later, suppose class C is changed, perhaps by adding a data member and a new 
> constructor argument.
>
> It would see the pickling protocol does not directly provide for this - but is 
> there a recommended method?
>
> I could imagine that a class could include a class __version__ property that 
> might be useful - although I would further expect that it would not have been 
> defined in the original version of class C (but only as an afterthought when it 
> became necessary).

The ZODB (Zope Object DataBase) is based on Python's pickle.

In the ZODB world, the following strategy is used:

  *  if the class adds a new data attribute, give it (in addition) a
     corresponding class level attribute acting as "default" value
     in case the pickled state of an instance lacks this
     instance level attribute

  *  for more difficult cases, define an appropriate "__getstate__"
     for the class that handles the necessary model upgrades



From dieter at handshake.de  Sat Oct 13 02:35:19 2012
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 08:35:19 +0200
Subject: deque and thread-safety
References: <CACjrQ-VvAdgCt7jnBANxSVkEFgdxrPqHZx3VKxPD9Edk7TDi7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87d30myj4o.fsf@handshake.de>

Christophe Vandeplas <christophe at vandeplas.com> writes:

> ...
> From the documentation I understand that deques are thread-safe:
>> Deques are a generalization of stacks and queues (the name is pronounced ?deck?
>> and is short for ?double-ended queue?). Deques support thread-safe, memory
>> efficient appends and pops from either side of the deque with approximately the
>> same O(1) performance in either direction.
>
> It seems that appending to deques is indeed thread-safe, but not
> iterating over them.

You are right.

And when you think about it, then there is not much point in striving
for thread safety for iteration (alone).
Iteration is (by nature) a non atomic operation: you iterate because
you want to do something with the intermediate results; this "doing"
is not part of the iteration itself.
Thus, you are looking for thread safety not for only the iteration
but for the iteration combined with additional operations (which
may well extend beyond the duration of the iteration).

Almost surely, the "deque" implementation is using locks
to ensure thread safety for its "append" and "pop". Check whether
this lock is exposed to the application. In this case, use
it to protect you atomic sections involving iteration.



From noreply at combimaragemar.it  Sat Oct 13 03:24:15 2012
From: noreply at combimaragemar.it (noreply at combimaragemar.it)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 09:24:15 +0200
Subject: The message was not delivered
Message-ID: <3XdyV33GyPzQpQ@mail.python.org>

The attached message was mark as  SPAM. The message was not delivered.
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From animelovin at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 04:18:39 2012
From: animelovin at gmail.com (Etienne Robillard)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 04:18:39 -0400
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
In-Reply-To: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20121013041839.6b33b29997c0996f9cbaaed3@gmail.com>

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 21:49:55 -0700 (PDT)
nbvfour at gmail.com wrote:

> http://giotto.readthedocs.org/en/latest/tutorial.html
> 
> Can someone give me some feedback on what they think of this framework? I came up with the idea of this framework a few months ago. I gave a talk at a local python user group regarding these ideas, but no one seemed to think I was onto anything special or useful.
> 
> Basically its a framework that forces the developer(s) to strictly separate the model from the view and controller. You can 'hook up' multiple controllers to a project. The model layer can be completely mocked out so front end designers don't have to bother setting up Postgres/rabbitmq/whatever.
> 
> Does anyone have any throughts or feedback?


Docs are useless for developers with an quarter of imagination. :-)

-- 
Etienne Robillard
Green Tea Hackers Club
Fine Software Carpentry For The Rest Of Us!
http://gthc.org/
erob at gthcfoundation.org


From thbach at students.uni-mainz.de  Sat Oct 13 04:41:32 2012
From: thbach at students.uni-mainz.de (Thomas Bach)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 10:41:32 +0200
Subject: How to use "while" within the command in -c option of python?
In-Reply-To: <5078b6a9$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CANOe_mhhn31Qb2iB1nWydWSm=MJ0xK0o5vxWR+mLeO5ggqwmwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2101.1350083051.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5078b6a9$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20121013084132.GA5083@taris.box>

On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 12:32:41AM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>  He gets SyntaxError because you can't follow a semicolon with a
> statement that begins a block.

Can someone provide a link on where to find this type of information?
I was just hunting through ?The Python Language Reference? and could
not find anything explicit. The only thing I found is

http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html

?Several simple statements may occur on a single line separated by
semicolons.?

Anyways, this does not explicitly say ?You shall not put a compound
statement after a simple statement separated by a semicolon.?, right?

Regards,
	Thomas Bach.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 05:03:42 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 20:03:42 +1100
Subject: How to use "while" within the command in -c option of python?
In-Reply-To: <20121013084132.GA5083@taris.box>
References: <CANOe_mhhn31Qb2iB1nWydWSm=MJ0xK0o5vxWR+mLeO5ggqwmwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2101.1350083051.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5078b6a9$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121013084132.GA5083@taris.box>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrBc1hABysXXpkTs3YWnBukEg=WiZD2TFnUWnQmXJ-t7g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Thomas Bach
<thbach at students.uni-mainz.de> wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 12:32:41AM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>>  He gets SyntaxError because you can't follow a semicolon with a
>> statement that begins a block.
>
> Can someone provide a link on where to find this type of information?
> I was just hunting through ?The Python Language Reference? and could
> not find anything explicit. The only thing I found is
>
> http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html
>
> ?Several simple statements may occur on a single line separated by
> semicolons.?
>
> Anyways, this does not explicitly say ?You shall not put a compound
> statement after a simple statement separated by a semicolon.?, right?

It's more that Python treats simple and compound statements as
completely separate beasts. You can combine simple statements on one
line, but compound statements mustn't be.

In my opinion, this is a major wart in Python syntax. You can argue
all you like about how it reduces code clarity to put these sorts of
things together, but that's a job for a style guide, NOT a language
requirement. Most code won't put an assignment followed by an
if/while/for, but when I'm working interactively, I often want to
recall an entire statement to edit and reuse, complete with its
initialization - something like (contrived example):

>>> a=collections.defaultdict(int)
>>> for x in open("RilvierRex.txt"): a[x]+=1

Then I keep doing stuff, keep doing stuff, and then come back to this
pair of lines. Since they're two lines, I have to recall them as two
separate entities, rather than as an initializer and the code that
uses it. Logically, they go together. Logically, they're on par with a
list comprehension, which initializes, loops, and assigns, all as a
single statement. But syntactically, they're two statements that have
to go on separate lines.

To force that sort of thing to be a single recallable statement, I can
do stupid tricks like:

>>> if True:
	a=collections.defaultdict(int)
	for x in open("RilvierRex.txt"): a[x]+=1

but that only works in IDLE, not in command-line interactive Python.

Note, by the way, that it's fine to put the statement _inside_ the for
on the same line. It's even legal to have multiple such statements:

>>> for x in (1,2,3): print(x); print(x);
1
1
2
2
3
3

If there's any ambiguity, it would surely be that, and not the simple
statement being first.

Okay, rant over. I'll go back to being nice now. :)

ChrisA


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sat Oct 13 07:32:14 2012
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:32:14 +0100
Subject: Checking for dlls in ctypes
References: <975da919-c70a-492a-9d49-62254a76eb6c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2092.1350059331.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2012.10.13.11.32.15.146000@nowhere.com>

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 12:28:17 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:

> Using bare excepts is almost never a good idea.  If it "works" you get no
> clues what went wrong.  For example, a typo in source code can trigger a
> bare exception, as can a user typing Ctrl-C.   So when you're using bare
> excepts, you have robbed the user of any way to terminate the program.

If you want to catch any error, use "except StandardError:". That covers
all errors but not things like KeyboardInterrupt (Ctrl-C) or SystemExit
(sys.exit()).

In situations such as this, where you try multiple candidates until one
succeeds, there's no reason to be any more specific than that. In any
case, Python's lack of formal interfaces makes it hard to reliably be more
specific.

However: you should bear in mind that loading the wrong DLL may just
result in an OS-level exception (e.g. segfault), which can't be caught.
It's preferable to allow the DLL to be explicitly selected e.g. in a
configuration file.



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Oct 13 09:30:14 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 13 Oct 2012 13:30:14 GMT
Subject: readline trick needed
Message-ID: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

I'm working with the readline module, and I'm trying to set a key 
combination to process the current command line by calling a known 
function, *and* enter the command line.

Something along the lines of:

* execute function spam() in some context where it can access 
  the current command line as a string
* enter the command line

Function spam() may or may not modify the command line.

Here is what I have got so far: I can discard the current line and call a 
function:

readline.parse_and_bind(r'"\C-p": "%cspam()\n"' % 0x15)  # ^U

binds ctrl-P to the key combinations `ctrl-U spam() Enter`, which clears 
the command line before entering spam().

If I leave out the ctrl-U, I'll get a SyntaxError or other exception, 
e.g. command line `x = 123` gets transformed into `x = 123spam()`.


This is not suitable:

readline.parse_and_bind(r'"\C-p": "; spam()\n"')

because it changes the command line. It's okay for spam() itself to 
modify the command line, but the key binding should not.

I tried to do this:

readline.parse_and_bind(r'"\C-p": "\nspam()\n"')

but it gives me a segmentation fault, which is a little less helpful than 
I had expected.

This Stackoverflow question suggests that what I want is not possible in 
vanilla Python:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11680356


but I'm a stubborn guy and I have not given up yet. Any suggestions?


(P.S. I'm aware of IPython, I want to get this working in the standard 
CPython interpreter.)


-- 
Steven


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Sat Oct 13 09:40:01 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 06:40:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Checking for dlls in ctypes
In-Reply-To: <975da919-c70a-492a-9d49-62254a76eb6c@googlegroups.com>
References: <975da919-c70a-492a-9d49-62254a76eb6c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f50647a5-0117-4e82-aaab-1792d838ed2b@googlegroups.com>

Wanderer? 2012?10?12????UTC+8??11?36?27????
> I'm trying to write some code that will load one of three dll depending on the one available. I've tried the code below, but it doesn't work. The try except doesn't catch the exception. Is there a way to do this?
> 
> 
> 
>         try:
> 
>             self.dll = windll.pvcam64
> 
>         except:
> 
>             print "No pvcam64"
> 
>             try:
> 
>                 self.dll = windll.pvcam32
> 
>             except:
> 
>                 print "No pvcam32"
> 
>                 try:
> 
>                     self.dll = windll.pvcam
> 
>                 except:
> 
>                     print "No pvcam"
> 
>                     return
> 
>                 else:
> 
>                     print "installed pvcam"
> 
>             else:
> 
>                 print "installed pvcam32"
> 
>         else:
> 
>             print "installed pvcam64"

In linux  there are shared libraries that could be linked in the runtime.

But for the security concerns this requres the system administrator account 
to install shared libraries.


From animelovin at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 09:44:04 2012
From: animelovin at gmail.com (Etienne Robillard)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 09:44:04 -0400
Subject: readline trick needed
In-Reply-To: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20121013094404.72241509d6ca6697e67d9419@gmail.com>

On 13 Oct 2012 13:30:14 GMT
Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:

> I'm working with the readline module, and I'm trying to set a key 
> combination to process the current command line by calling a known 
> function, *and* enter the command line.
> 
> Something along the lines of:
> 
> * execute function spam() in some context where it can access 
>   the current command line as a string
> * enter the command line
> 
> Function spam() may or may not modify the command line.
> 
> Here is what I have got so far: I can discard the current line and call a 
> function:
> 
> readline.parse_and_bind(r'"\C-p": "%cspam()\n"' % 0x15)  # ^U
> 
> binds ctrl-P to the key combinations `ctrl-U spam() Enter`, which clears 
> the command line before entering spam().
> 
> If I leave out the ctrl-U, I'll get a SyntaxError or other exception, 
> e.g. command line `x = 123` gets transformed into `x = 123spam()`.
> 
> 
> This is not suitable:
> 
> readline.parse_and_bind(r'"\C-p": "; spam()\n"')
> 
> because it changes the command line. It's okay for spam() itself to 
> modify the command line, but the key binding should not.
> 
> I tried to do this:
> 
> readline.parse_and_bind(r'"\C-p": "\nspam()\n"')
> 
> but it gives me a segmentation fault, which is a little less helpful than 
> I had expected.
> 
> This Stackoverflow question suggests that what I want is not possible in 
> vanilla Python:
> 
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11680356
> 
> 
> but I'm a stubborn guy and I have not given up yet. Any suggestions?
> 
> 
> (P.S. I'm aware of IPython, I want to get this working in the standard 
> CPython interpreter.)
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steven
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Why dont you grow yourself some usable neurons instead ? Don't you realize now stackoverflow.com is starting
to hurt your capacity to cogitate on your own or have you not realized this yet?

Cheers,

Etienne


-- 
Etienne Robillard
Green Tea Hackers Club
Fine Software Carpentry For The Rest Of Us!
http://gthc.org/
erob at gthcfoundation.org


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 09:47:52 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 00:47:52 +1100
Subject: readline trick needed
In-Reply-To: <20121013094404.72241509d6ca6697e67d9419@gmail.com>
References: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121013094404.72241509d6ca6697e67d9419@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqjz94j-PXBC-_NKgPROQA72CnEKMSL0pmQ9SxEbpHg_g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 12:44 AM, Etienne Robillard
<animelovin at gmail.com> wrote:
> Why dont you grow yourself some usable neurons instead ? Don't you realize now stackoverflow.com is starting
> to hurt your capacity to cogitate on your own or have you not realized this yet?

Excuse me?

I'm not overly familiar with readline, so perhaps there is a really
obvious way to do what Steven's trying to do, but this post does not
appear to be the result of a lack of thinking.

If it really IS that obvious to you, post a link to appropriate
documentation without the rudeness... that way it'll be useful to
everyone, not just cathartic to you.

ChrisA


From animelovin at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 09:58:11 2012
From: animelovin at gmail.com (Etienne Robillard)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 09:58:11 -0400
Subject: readline trick needed
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqjz94j-PXBC-_NKgPROQA72CnEKMSL0pmQ9SxEbpHg_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121013094404.72241509d6ca6697e67d9419@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqjz94j-PXBC-_NKgPROQA72CnEKMSL0pmQ9SxEbpHg_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121013095811.99486d56a423727c80ce7318@gmail.com>

On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 00:47:52 +1100
Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> Excuse me?
> 
> I'm not overly familiar with readline, so perhaps there is a really
> obvious way to do what Steven's trying to do, but this post does not
> appear to be the result of a lack of thinking.
> 
> If it really IS that obvious to you, post a link to appropriate
> documentation without the rudeness... that way it'll be useful to
> everyone, not just cathartic to you.
> 
> ChrisA
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

whatever. i don't feel much like replying to idiots today so your apologies
and useless if not irrelevant. 



-- 
Etienne Robillard
Green Tea Hackers Club
Fine Software Carpentry For The Rest Of Us!
http://gthc.org/
erob at gthcfoundation.org


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 10:12:30 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 01:12:30 +1100
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
In-Reply-To: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqS-w7MGZEu8YXxFGUFepWjYGH8g15cgYnFRJ1n6X_ycg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 3:49 PM,  <nbvfour at gmail.com> wrote:
> Basically its a framework that forces the developer(s) to strictly separate the model from the view and controller. You can 'hook up' multiple controllers to a project. The model layer can be completely mocked out so front end designers don't have to bother setting up Postgres/rabbitmq/whatever.

I don't like frameworks that force too much. Actually, I guess that
means I don't like frameworks at all, I like toolsets. Let the
programmer decide what he wants to do.

That said, though, there are times when a good framework can do 90% of
your work for you. The trouble comes when you want to do something the
author didn't think of - you might well end up either fighting against
the system, or modifying the framework to suit your task (and that
works only if you created it yourself). Thin frameworks are usually
immune to this, but on the flip side, they're less likely to be doing
most of your work for you.

It's really easy to demo something and show how awesome it is. How
easily can it be turned to a task it was never built for?

ChrisA


From animelovin at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 10:44:56 2012
From: animelovin at gmail.com (Etienne Robillard)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 10:44:56 -0400
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqS-w7MGZEu8YXxFGUFepWjYGH8g15cgYnFRJ1n6X_ycg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmqS-w7MGZEu8YXxFGUFepWjYGH8g15cgYnFRJ1n6X_ycg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121013104456.7572714a65209443ef95db1b@gmail.com>

On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 01:12:30 +1100
Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 3:49 PM,  <nbvfour at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Basically its a framework that forces the developer(s) to strictly separate the model from the view and controller. You can 'hook up' multiple controllers to a project. The model layer can be completely mocked out so front end designers don't have to bother setting up Postgres/rabbitmq/whatever.
> 
> I don't like frameworks that force too much. Actually, I guess that
> means I don't like frameworks at all, I like toolsets. Let the
> programmer decide what he wants to do.
> 
> That said, though, there are times when a good framework can do 90% of
> your work for you. The trouble comes when you want to do something the
> author didn't think of - you might well end up either fighting against
> the system, or modifying the framework to suit your task (and that
> works only if you created it yourself). Thin frameworks are usually
> immune to this, but on the flip side, they're less likely to be doing
> most of your work for you.
> 
> It's really easy to demo something and show how awesome it is. How
> easily can it be turned to a task it was never built for?

Perhaps we deserve such lame/mediocre web frameworks after all, as Imagination is for those who
deserve the freedom to use it properly.

> ChrisA
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


-- 
Etienne Robillard
Green Tea Hackers Club
Fine Software Carpentry For The Rest Of Us!
http://gthc.org/
erob at gthcfoundation.org


From schesis at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 11:21:28 2012
From: schesis at gmail.com (Zero Piraeus)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 11:21:28 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
Message-ID: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>

:

Not sure exactly how to put this ...

I'm a mostly passive subscriber to this list - my posts here over the
years could probably be counted without having to take my socks off -
so perhaps I have no right to comment, but I've noticed a marked
increase in aggressive language here lately, so I'm putting my head
above the parapet to say that I don't appreciate it.

Robust disagreement is one thing [and can be quite enjoyable for those
of us merely spectating], but there's really no need to go around
calling people idiots at the drop of a hat. Quite apart from anything
else, when the contributor you're calling names is as helpful and
knowledgeable a member of the community as some of those targeted have
been, it makes you look a bit daft.

And, yes, I know bringing it up could be construed as stoking the
flames ... but, well, "silence = acquiescence" and all that.

 -[]z.


From animelovin at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 11:46:46 2012
From: animelovin at gmail.com (Etienne Robillard)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 11:46:46 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121013114646.1f09d311da2aa95d31066fe5@gmail.com>

On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 11:21:28 -0400
Zero Piraeus <schesis at gmail.com> wrote:

> :
> 
> Not sure exactly how to put this ...
> 
> I'm a mostly passive subscriber to this list - my posts here over the
> years could probably be counted without having to take my socks off -
> so perhaps I have no right to comment, but I've noticed a marked
> increase in aggressive language here lately, so I'm putting my head
> above the parapet to say that I don't appreciate it.
> 
> Robust disagreement is one thing [and can be quite enjoyable for those
> of us merely spectating], but there's really no need to go around
> calling people idiots at the drop of a hat. Quite apart from anything
> else, when the contributor you're calling names is as helpful and
> knowledgeable a member of the community as some of those targeted have
> been, it makes you look a bit daft.
> 
> And, yes, I know bringing it up could be construed as stoking the
> flames ... but, well, "silence = acquiescence" and all that.
> 
>  -[]z.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

OT. you obviously has no clue what agressive behavior mean. :-)

So please continue with the passive tone saying nothing relevant 
and login to facebook.


-- 
Etienne Robillard
Green Tea Hackers Club
Fine Software Carpentry For The Rest Of Us!
http://gthc.org/
erob at gthcfoundation.org


From nbvfour at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 11:57:47 2012
From: nbvfour at gmail.com (nbvfour at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 08:57:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, October 13, 2012 10:13:22 AM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 3:49 PM,  <nbvfour at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Basically its a framework that forces the developer(s) to strictly separate the model from the view and controller. You can 'hook up' multiple controllers to a project. The model layer can be completely mocked out so front end designers don't have to bother setting up Postgres/rabbitmq/whatever.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like frameworks that force too much. Actually, I guess that
> 
> means I don't like frameworks at all, I like toolsets. Let the
> 
> programmer decide what he wants to do.
> 
> 
> 
> That said, though, there are times when a good framework can do 90% of
> 
> your work for you. The trouble comes when you want to do something the
> 
> author didn't think of - you might well end up either fighting against
> 
> the system, or modifying the framework to suit your task (and that
> 
> works only if you created it yourself). Thin frameworks are usually
> 
> immune to this, but on the flip side, they're less likely to be doing
> 
> most of your work for you.
> 
> 
> 
> It's really easy to demo something and show how awesome it is. How
> 
> easily can it be turned to a task it was never built for?
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisA

Do you have an example of a task that giotto can't handle that other frameworks can? One of my goals is to have this framework "turing complete" in the sense that everything that other frameworks can do, giotto should be able to do. I think my controller -> input_middleware -> model -> cache -> view -> output_middleware pattern pretty much allows for anything. Throughout the development process, I've radically changed the API many times when it was discovered that a certain task would be very hard (for instance authentication)


From nbvfour at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 11:57:47 2012
From: nbvfour at gmail.com (nbvfour at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 08:57:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, October 13, 2012 10:13:22 AM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 3:49 PM,  <nbvfour at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Basically its a framework that forces the developer(s) to strictly separate the model from the view and controller. You can 'hook up' multiple controllers to a project. The model layer can be completely mocked out so front end designers don't have to bother setting up Postgres/rabbitmq/whatever.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like frameworks that force too much. Actually, I guess that
> 
> means I don't like frameworks at all, I like toolsets. Let the
> 
> programmer decide what he wants to do.
> 
> 
> 
> That said, though, there are times when a good framework can do 90% of
> 
> your work for you. The trouble comes when you want to do something the
> 
> author didn't think of - you might well end up either fighting against
> 
> the system, or modifying the framework to suit your task (and that
> 
> works only if you created it yourself). Thin frameworks are usually
> 
> immune to this, but on the flip side, they're less likely to be doing
> 
> most of your work for you.
> 
> 
> 
> It's really easy to demo something and show how awesome it is. How
> 
> easily can it be turned to a task it was never built for?
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisA

Do you have an example of a task that giotto can't handle that other frameworks can? One of my goals is to have this framework "turing complete" in the sense that everything that other frameworks can do, giotto should be able to do. I think my controller -> input_middleware -> model -> cache -> view -> output_middleware pattern pretty much allows for anything. Throughout the development process, I've radically changed the API many times when it was discovered that a certain task would be very hard (for instance authentication)


From animelovin at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 12:10:02 2012
From: animelovin at gmail.com (Etienne Robillard)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:10:02 -0400
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
In-Reply-To: <4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com>
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20121013121002.3442ea472b5c2ccd9ca302b3@gmail.com>

On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 08:57:47 -0700 (PDT)
nbvfour at gmail.com wrote:


> Do you have an example of a task that giotto can't handle that other frameworks can? One of my goals is to have this framework "turing complete" in the sense that everything that other frameworks can do, giotto should be able to do. I think my controller -> input_middleware -> model -> cache -> view -> output_middleware pattern pretty much allows for anything. Throughout the development process, I've radically changed the API many times when it was discovered that a certain task would be very hard (for instance authentication)
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

how about eliminating poverty and employment discrimination?

Or can your script prevent childs to kill themselves on facebook?

let me know!


From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 12:30:35 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 17:30:35 +0100
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qUY1n+LOU-L6yM99g1e6XQT5Ls-QSwJH2PhhvDy-HD2Lg@mail.gmail.com>

On 13 October 2012 16:21, Zero Piraeus <schesis at gmail.com> wrote:

> :
>
> Not sure exactly how to put this ...
>
> I'm a mostly passive subscriber to this list - my posts here over the
> years could probably be counted without having to take my socks off -
> so perhaps I have no right to comment, but I've noticed a marked
> increase in aggressive language here lately, so I'm putting my head
> above the parapet to say that I don't appreciate it.
>
> Robust disagreement is one thing [and can be quite enjoyable for those
> of us merely spectating], but there's really no need to go around
> calling people idiots at the drop of a hat. Quite apart from anything
> else, when the contributor you're calling names is as helpful and
> knowledgeable a member of the community as some of those targeted have
> been, it makes you look a bit daft.
>
> And, yes, I know bringing it up could be construed as stoking the
> flames ... but, well, "silence = acquiescence" and all that.
>

I was going to passively agree to this, but Etienne's obvious trolling
impulsed me to state that I do.

I can't say I'm free from blame, but I feel we have had a bit more name
calling and internet-punching than usual, but I also have a trust in this
list in that whenever it's gotten bad before we've always calmed down.

Plus, aside from 88888*, we have a lot of brains on this list, so we really
shouldn't be calling *anyone* "idiots".

* Then again, 88888 is pretty bright for a bot.
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From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 12:38:18 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 17:38:18 +0100
Subject: How to use "while" within the command in -c option of python?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrBc1hABysXXpkTs3YWnBukEg=WiZD2TFnUWnQmXJ-t7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOe_mhhn31Qb2iB1nWydWSm=MJ0xK0o5vxWR+mLeO5ggqwmwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2101.1350083051.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5078b6a9$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121013084132.GA5083@taris.box>
	<CAPTjJmrBc1hABysXXpkTs3YWnBukEg=WiZD2TFnUWnQmXJ-t7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qX50y6uVFXs6OxZaVYyUPT-1jLHqY5GoDr3x4Xctd0Xtw@mail.gmail.com>

On 13 October 2012 10:03, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Thomas Bach
> <thbach at students.uni-mainz.de> wrote:
> > On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 12:32:41AM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> >>
> >>  He gets SyntaxError because you can't follow a semicolon with a
> >> statement that begins a block.
> >
> > Can someone provide a link on where to find this type of information?
> > I was just hunting through ?The Python Language Reference? and could
> > not find anything explicit. The only thing I found is
> >
> > http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html
> >
> > ?Several simple statements may occur on a single line separated by
> > semicolons.?
> >
> > Anyways, this does not explicitly say ?You shall not put a compound
> > statement after a simple statement separated by a semicolon.?, right?
>
> It's more that Python treats simple and compound statements as
> completely separate beasts. You can combine simple statements on one
> line, but compound statements mustn't be.
>
> In my opinion, this is a major wart in Python syntax. You can argue
> all you like about how it reduces code clarity to put these sorts of
> things together, but that's a job for a style guide, NOT a language
> requirement. Most code won't put an assignment followed by an
> if/while/for, but when I'm working interactively, I often want to
> recall an entire statement to edit and reuse, complete with its
> initialization - something like (contrived example):
>
> >>> a=collections.defaultdict(int)
> >>> for x in open("RilvierRex.txt"): a[x]+=1
>
> Then I keep doing stuff, keep doing stuff, and then come back to this
> pair of lines. Since they're two lines, I have to recall them as two
> separate entities, rather than as an initializer and the code that
> uses it. Logically, they go together. Logically, they're on par with a
> list comprehension, which initializes, loops, and assigns, all as a
> single statement. But syntactically, they're two statements that have
> to go on separate lines.
>
> To force that sort of thing to be a single recallable statement, I can
> do stupid tricks like:
>
> >>> if True:
>         a=collections.defaultdict(int)
>         for x in open("RilvierRex.txt"): a[x]+=1
>
> but that only works in IDLE, not in command-line interactive Python.
>
> Note, by the way, that it's fine to put the statement _inside_ the for
> on the same line. It's even legal to have multiple such statements:
>
> >>> for x in (1,2,3): print(x); print(x);
> 1
> 1
> 2
> 2
> 3
> 3
>
> If there's any ambiguity, it would surely be that, and not the simple
> statement being first.
>
> Okay, rant over. I'll go back to being nice now. :)


This here isn't a flaw in Python, though. It's a flaw in the command-line
interpreter. By putting it all on one line, you are effectively saying:
"group these". Which is the same as an "if True:" block, and some things
like Reinteract even supply a grouping block like "build".

That said, because some shells suck it would be nice if:

> python -c "a=1\nif a:print(a)"

worked (just for -c).
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 12:48:18 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 03:48:18 +1100
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
In-Reply-To: <4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com>
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrf4_Zcc29QtFCvzb9qHjErbVP_gSysG6HGgAu1f2WZ3Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 2:57 AM,  <nbvfour at gmail.com> wrote:
> Do you have an example of a task that giotto can't handle that other frameworks can? One of my goals is to have this framework "turing complete" in the sense that everything that other frameworks can do, giotto should be able to do. I think my controller -> input_middleware -> model -> cache -> view -> output_middleware pattern pretty much allows for anything.

No, I don't, because I haven't tried to use it. But allow me to give
two examples, one on each side of the argument.

The 'tee' utility is primarily for writing a pipe to disk AND to
further pipelining, for instance:

./grind | tee grind.log | egrep '(2012|tps|@)'

It'll show me, in real-time, the lines that are of interest to me, but
it also writes the whole log to disk. But tee can be used in a quite
different way:

echo "Hello, world!" | sudo tee /some/file/owned/by/root

Unix is full of utilities of this nature. They each do one thing and
do it well, so when someone wants to use them in unusual ways, the
tools perform as expected.

On the contrary, Magic: The Gathering Online is designed for one
purpose: human interaction. There are a number of bot accounts that
function as shopkeepers, but their owners have to either use GUI level
monitoring and automation facilities, or hack the existing client
brutally. These people are trying to use an application in a way that
it wasn't designed to do, and no matter how reasonable the goal is,
the program just isn't built with toolchaining in mind.

> Throughout the development process, I've radically changed the API many times when it was discovered that a certain task would be very hard (for instance authentication)

This is, in my opinion, not a good thing. If you have to change your
API radically to support something you just thought of, then something
you still haven't thought of may require another radical API change.
That's not too bad if it's a personal system that you don't share with
anyone (though even then, you have to consider whether you'll be
spending more time fiddling with the framework than actually getting
stuff done), but is potentially disastrous in something you publish -
you can't afford to break everyone else's code, which means that
you'll be unable to support things you didn't think of.

The only way to support *absolutely everything* is to do nothing - to
be a framework so thin you're invisible. (That's not to say you're
useless; there are bridge modules that do exactly this - ctypes can
call on any library function from Python; it must therefore abstract
away nothing. But that's a very specific sort of case.) Anything else
must by nature make some things easier and some things harder.

The easiest way to avoid making things very much harder is to have a
way to ignore the framework - in the same way that most file
compression formats have a way to mark data as having not been
compressed (PKZip uses the term "Stored" rather than, eg, "Deflated").
 This is why I say it's likely not a good thing that your framework
*forces* the separation of model/view/controller. You make it
impossible to temporarily ignore the framework. I haven't tested your
specific case, but what I've seen happen in similar situations is a
ridiculous set of "pass-through" methods or parameters, getting sent
up the line and back down the line, carrying opaque information that
really ought to have been manipulated at a different level in the
chain. I can't show you demo code as I don't own copyright on it, but
the git repository at work has, shall we say, a certain amount of
TheDailyWTF-level code in it...

But please don't take this post as _entirely_ doom and gloom. For a
number of reasons, I do not want to start coding within your
framework; but I would recommend that you DO (continue to) do so.
You'll learn a lot about what you do and don't like, and that's a good
thing. You'll quite possibly end up building something that saves you
a heap of time, and that's also a good thing. And at very worst, it'll
be an exploration. All programmers benefit from writing more code :)
But so long as you keep it personal, you're free to change it around
completely every time you need to. Keep that flexibility and you won't
feel constrained.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 13:23:25 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 04:23:25 +1100
Subject: How to use "while" within the command in -c option of python?
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qX50y6uVFXs6OxZaVYyUPT-1jLHqY5GoDr3x4Xctd0Xtw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOe_mhhn31Qb2iB1nWydWSm=MJ0xK0o5vxWR+mLeO5ggqwmwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2101.1350083051.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5078b6a9$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121013084132.GA5083@taris.box>
	<CAPTjJmrBc1hABysXXpkTs3YWnBukEg=WiZD2TFnUWnQmXJ-t7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qX50y6uVFXs6OxZaVYyUPT-1jLHqY5GoDr3x4Xctd0Xtw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmob-ugLjSJ1G7KWYUBNv_Ksu9Ow3xtzKhxsjRzFhpk7VA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 3:38 AM, Joshua Landau
<joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com> wrote:
> This here isn't a flaw in Python, though. It's a flaw in the command-line
> interpreter. By putting it all on one line, you are effectively saying:
> "group these". Which is the same as an "if True:" block, and some things
> like Reinteract even supply a grouping block like "build".
>
> That said, because some shells suck it would be nice if:
>>
>> python -c "a=1\nif a:print(a)"
>
> worked (just for -c).

Yes, that'd be nice. But it still leaves the big question of why
Python requires \n to separate one statement from another. It IS a
flaw in Python that it requires one specific statement separator in
this instance, even though it'll accept two in another instance.

Here's a side challenge. In any shell you like, start with this
failing statement, and then fix it without retyping anything:

sikorsky at sikorsky:~$ python -c "a=1; if a: print(a)"
  File "<string>", line 1
    a=1; if a: print(a)
          ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

In bash, I was unable to insert a newline into the quoted string. My
only option was to backspace everything after the point where I wanted
the newline, then hit enter, then retype the if. I'm curious to know
if that's simply because I didn't think of (some bash feature), or
alternatively, if there's another shell that would have made this
easy.

Back to the main point. In C-like languages, the newline is nothing
special. (ECMAScript allows the omission of semicolons at end of line
in many cases, but many style guides recommend using them anyway.) You
can, if you so desire, put all your code into a single line. It's then
up to the project's style guide to decide how things should be laid
out. For instance, this is multiple statements in PHP, but I see it as
one logical action:

$bar=array(); for ($foo as $k=>$v) $bar[$k]="<p>".$v."</p>";

It's one statement in Python:

bar = ["<p>"+x+"</p>" for x in foo]

It's one statement in Pike:

array bar = map(foo,lambda(string x) {return "<p>"+x+"</p>";});

So it should be allowed to be put on one line. And in languages whose
syntax derives from C, you almost certainly can. (I can't think of any
counter-examples, though that certainly doesn't prove they don't
exist.) But the same thing is forced onto two lines in Python, and not
for syntactic reasons - at least, not that I can see. Perhaps someone
can enlighten me.

Is there any fundamental reason that the syntax couldn't be expanded
to permit "statement; statement" for any two given statements?

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 13:33:25 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 04:33:25 +1100
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoTQ02rnuezTEpgKxJOQ+3t3wezQ1MSfctjTr0_cL-mPA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 2:21 AM, Zero Piraeus <schesis at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm a mostly passive subscriber to this list - my posts here over the
> years could probably be counted without having to take my socks off -
> so perhaps I have no right to comment, but I've noticed a marked
> increase in aggressive language here lately, so I'm putting my head
> above the parapet to say that I don't appreciate it.

Thanks for speaking up, Zero. I agree that the aggressive language
lately has been a bit of a problem; but it's not incurable, and Dwight
Hutto seems to have recovered a more affable stance in his more recent
posts. (Thank you, Dwight/David.)

Etienne, we shall not trouble you for a demonstration of what you
think *real* aggressive behaviour is. Really, you've already given us
far more than the five-minute argument we paid for; though I suppose
you could be arguing on your own time. But I'm sure if you go to the
next room, you'll find "being dropped into the killfille lessons".
Better, better, but "Plonk". Hold your username here...

Wait, is that the wrong Python for this list? Oops. So confusing.

ChrisA


From jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi  Sat Oct 13 13:43:46 2012
From: jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: 13 Oct 2012 20:43:46 +0300
Subject: How to use "while" within the command in -c option of python?
References: <CANOe_mhhn31Qb2iB1nWydWSm=MJ0xK0o5vxWR+mLeO5ggqwmwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2101.1350083051.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5078b6a9$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121013084132.GA5083@taris.box>
	<CAPTjJmrBc1hABysXXpkTs3YWnBukEg=WiZD2TFnUWnQmXJ-t7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qX50y6uVFXs6OxZaVYyUPT-1jLHqY5GoDr3x4Xctd0Xtw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2125.1350149008.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qot391i2rot.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>

Chris Angelico writes:

> Here's a side challenge. In any shell you like, start with this
> failing statement, and then fix it without retyping anything:
> 
> sikorsky at sikorsky:~$ python -c "a=1; if a: print(a)"
>   File "<string>", line 1
>     a=1; if a: print(a)
>           ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> 
> In bash, I was unable to insert a newline into the quoted string. My
> only option was to backspace everything after the point where I
> wanted the newline, then hit enter, then retype the if. I'm curious
> to know if that's simply because I didn't think of (some bash
> feature), or alternatively, if there's another shell that would have
> made this easy.

C-v C-j inserts a newline for me, in bash.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 13:47:58 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 04:47:58 +1100
Subject: How to use "while" within the command in -c option of python?
In-Reply-To: <qot391i2rot.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>
References: <CANOe_mhhn31Qb2iB1nWydWSm=MJ0xK0o5vxWR+mLeO5ggqwmwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2101.1350083051.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5078b6a9$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121013084132.GA5083@taris.box>
	<CAPTjJmrBc1hABysXXpkTs3YWnBukEg=WiZD2TFnUWnQmXJ-t7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qX50y6uVFXs6OxZaVYyUPT-1jLHqY5GoDr3x4Xctd0Xtw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2125.1350149008.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<qot391i2rot.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpQ3i_OSqaAcbPubTG7XE=FO5VS_LA+=ppioe+eBrX8ag@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 4:43 AM, Jussi Piitulainen
<jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi> wrote:
> Chris Angelico writes:
>
>> Here's a side challenge. In any shell you like, start with this
>> failing statement, and then fix it without retyping anything:
>>
>> sikorsky at sikorsky:~$ python -c "a=1; if a: print(a)"
>
> C-v C-j inserts a newline for me, in bash.

Ah! So it does. Thanks.

*stashes that away in the "handy commands" index in his brain*

ChrisA


From sntshkmr60 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 13:49:42 2012
From: sntshkmr60 at gmail.com (Santosh Kumar)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 23:19:42 +0530
Subject: Where are documentation for Gnome
Message-ID: <CAE7MaQaVdFKn5FibrNi=gZNZLcby+F271bo8wa5XK4qEOpDZpg@mail.gmail.com>




From sntshkmr60 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 13:50:59 2012
From: sntshkmr60 at gmail.com (Santosh Kumar)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 23:20:59 +0530
Subject: Where are documentation for Gnome
In-Reply-To: <CAE7MaQaVdFKn5FibrNi=gZNZLcby+F271bo8wa5XK4qEOpDZpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE7MaQaVdFKn5FibrNi=gZNZLcby+F271bo8wa5XK4qEOpDZpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE7MaQY4wLTmNX2si_zHrqbNqDLrG06=PUBKgNg2Q=f-PD39QQ@mail.gmail.com>

Where are the documentation for Gnome's EOG? I want to develop a
plugin in Python.

On 10/13/12, Santosh Kumar <sntshkmr60 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>


From kwpolska at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 14:14:50 2012
From: kwpolska at gmail.com (Kwpolska)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 20:14:50 +0200
Subject: Where are documentation for Gnome
In-Reply-To: <CAE7MaQY4wLTmNX2si_zHrqbNqDLrG06=PUBKgNg2Q=f-PD39QQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE7MaQaVdFKn5FibrNi=gZNZLcby+F271bo8wa5XK4qEOpDZpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE7MaQY4wLTmNX2si_zHrqbNqDLrG06=PUBKgNg2Q=f-PD39QQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMw+j7L8RD2xn5s2+ML2uU-GP5adp4HUSwk3j9qwJejkivGmhw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 7:50 PM, Santosh Kumar <sntshkmr60 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Where are the documentation for Gnome's EOG? I want to develop a
> plugin in Python.
>
> On 10/13/12, Santosh Kumar <sntshkmr60 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

https://live.gnome.org/EyeOfGnome/Plugins#Python

That is all the documentation in existence for Python plugins.

Examples:
http://git.gnome.org/browse/eog-plugins/tree/plugins/slideshowshuffle
http://git.gnome.org/browse/eog-plugins/tree/plugins/pythonconsole

The C code may be of use:

http://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/GNOME/sources/eog/3.6/eog-3.6.0.tar.xz

Have fun? oh wait.  You can?t, because PyGTK is an unreadable mess.
And you are working with undocumented stuff.

-- 
Kwpolska <http://kwpolska.tk>
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From nbvfour at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 14:18:44 2012
From: nbvfour at gmail.com (nbvfour at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 11:18:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2124.1350146902.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2124.1350146902.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5f18f5d1-1442-4a10-922c-783dc6ddf657@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, October 13, 2012 12:48:23 PM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
> No, I don't, because I haven't tried to use it. But allow me to give
> two examples, one on each side of the argument.
> 
> The 'tee' utility is primarily for writing a pipe to disk AND to
> further pipelining, for instance:

Could you please spent 10 minutes to read through the tutorial? The 'tee' unix utility and ctypes describes the way giotto goes about it business very well. Traditional web frameworks (such as django and rails) are too much of a 'magic the gathering' for my taste, which is why I'm writing giotto.

I'm really not looking for general "why I hate frameworks" criticism. I'm looking for specific criticism of the framework that I am writing.

> This is, in my opinion, not a good thing. If you have to change your
> API radically to support something you just thought of, then something
> you still haven't thought of may require another radical API change.

Not all api's get it right on the first shot. I'm more interested in getting it right, rather than patching together a bunch of random 'fixes' ala PHP.

> The only way to support *absolutely everything* is to do nothing - to
> be a framework so thin you're invisible. (That's not to say you're

You just described what Giotto is trying to do, since Giotto doesn't touch the model at all.

>  This is why I say it's likely not a good thing that your framework
> *forces* the separation of model/view/controller. You make it
> impossible to temporarily ignore the framework.

Exactly. When you 'break out of the framework' you pile on technical debt. I want to force developers to not do that.


From nbvfour at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 14:18:44 2012
From: nbvfour at gmail.com (nbvfour at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 11:18:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2124.1350146902.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2124.1350146902.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5f18f5d1-1442-4a10-922c-783dc6ddf657@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, October 13, 2012 12:48:23 PM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
> No, I don't, because I haven't tried to use it. But allow me to give
> two examples, one on each side of the argument.
> 
> The 'tee' utility is primarily for writing a pipe to disk AND to
> further pipelining, for instance:

Could you please spent 10 minutes to read through the tutorial? The 'tee' unix utility and ctypes describes the way giotto goes about it business very well. Traditional web frameworks (such as django and rails) are too much of a 'magic the gathering' for my taste, which is why I'm writing giotto.

I'm really not looking for general "why I hate frameworks" criticism. I'm looking for specific criticism of the framework that I am writing.

> This is, in my opinion, not a good thing. If you have to change your
> API radically to support something you just thought of, then something
> you still haven't thought of may require another radical API change.

Not all api's get it right on the first shot. I'm more interested in getting it right, rather than patching together a bunch of random 'fixes' ala PHP.

> The only way to support *absolutely everything* is to do nothing - to
> be a framework so thin you're invisible. (That's not to say you're

You just described what Giotto is trying to do, since Giotto doesn't touch the model at all.

>  This is why I say it's likely not a good thing that your framework
> *forces* the separation of model/view/controller. You make it
> impossible to temporarily ignore the framework.

Exactly. When you 'break out of the framework' you pile on technical debt. I want to force developers to not do that.


From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 14:21:12 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 19:21:12 +0100
Subject: How to use "while" within the command in -c option of python?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmob-ugLjSJ1G7KWYUBNv_Ksu9Ow3xtzKhxsjRzFhpk7VA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOe_mhhn31Qb2iB1nWydWSm=MJ0xK0o5vxWR+mLeO5ggqwmwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2101.1350083051.27098.python-list@python.org>
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Message-ID: <CAN1F8qV5=EDYs66CrTJf=ObRM+O+bb9YOt-Z+oT5H6Ci9Nq1tQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 13 October 2012 18:23, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 3:38 AM, Joshua Landau
> <joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com> wrote:
> > This here isn't a flaw in Python, though. It's a flaw in the command-line
> > interpreter. By putting it all on one line, you are effectively saying:
> > "group these". Which is the same as an "if True:" block, and some things
> > like Reinteract even supply a grouping block like "build".
> >
> > That said, because some shells suck it would be nice if:
> >>
> >> python -c "a=1\nif a:print(a)"
> >
> > worked (just for -c).
>
> Yes, that'd be nice. But it still leaves the big question of why
> Python requires \n to separate one statement from another. It IS a
> flaw in Python that it requires one specific statement separator in
> this instance, even though it'll accept two in another instance.
>

Not really. The two things are fundamentally different. Yes, it's hard to
think of another example, but they aren't the same. ";" means "implicit
newline to the *same indentation*", whereas a newline does not.


> Here's a side challenge. In any shell you like, start with this
> failing statement, and then fix it without retyping anything:
>
> sikorsky at sikorsky:~$ python -c "a=1; if a: print(a)"
>   File "<string>", line 1
>     a=1; if a: print(a)
>           ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> In bash, I was unable to insert a newline into the quoted string. My
> only option was to backspace everything after the point where I wanted
> the newline, then hit enter, then retype the if. I'm curious to know
> if that's simply because I didn't think of (some bash feature), or
> alternatively, if there's another shell that would have made this
> easy.
>

I have to thank Jussi Piitulainen for the command here, I'm likely gonna'
use that quite a bit.


> Back to the main point. In C-like languages, the newline is nothing
> special. (ECMAScript allows the omission of semicolons at end of line
> in many cases, but many style guides recommend using them anyway.) You
> can, if you so desire, put all your code into a single line. It's then
> up to the project's style guide to decide how things should be laid
> out. For instance, this is multiple statements in PHP, but I see it as
> one logical action:
>
> $bar=array(); for ($foo as $k=>$v) $bar[$k]="<p>".$v."</p>";
>
> It's one statement in Python:
>
> bar = ["<p>"+x+"</p>" for x in foo]
>
> It's one statement in Pike:
>
> array bar = map(foo,lambda(string x) {return "<p>"+x+"</p>";});
>
> So it should be allowed to be put on one line


Your argument goes:
FACT 1: You can do this in one statement, in one line.
FACT 2: In other languages you can do this in two statements, in one line
CONCULSION: You should be able to do this in two statements, in one line

Which I don't agree with. I understand that it is one *logical action*, but
so is multiplying a matrix. We have functions to *wrap* logical actions
that are composed of multiple logical actions.

The problem is that Python uses indentation. That's fundamentally the
problem.


> And in languages whose
> syntax derives from C, you almost certainly can. (I can't think of any
> counter-examples, though that certainly doesn't prove they don't
> exist.) But the same thing is forced onto two lines in Python, and not
> for syntactic reasons - at least, not that I can see. Perhaps someone
> can enlighten me.
>
> Is there any fundamental reason that the syntax couldn't be expanded
> to permit "statement; statement" for any two given statements?
>

Because Python uses indentation, what would "if A: print(1); if B:
print(2)" even do? It *has* to fail, because we have to assume consistent
indentation for ";"s*. With "\n" as I proposed, you still have to indent:
it is just a method to bypass lame shells [it would become "if A:
print(1)\nif B: print(2)"].

Blocks that avoid this have been done to death with multi-line lambdas, and
the majority of people don't like them. I'm sway-able, but it's not going
to happen because Guido and most of the peeps with power aren't. Anything
that challenges the standard now is dead from the start.

* You *could* have some rules that govern ambiguities well, but none that I
can think of would be *both* backward-compatible *and* complete. If it's
incomplete we've just moved the goalpost.
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 14:33:40 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 05:33:40 +1100
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
In-Reply-To: <5f18f5d1-1442-4a10-922c-783dc6ddf657@googlegroups.com>
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2124.1350146902.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5f18f5d1-1442-4a10-922c-783dc6ddf657@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrB_n-Z5Pm2k4ti4Kd6+YPMDF8aKgkJeq_FAEx3X_EgRw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 5:18 AM,  <nbvfour at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, October 13, 2012 12:48:23 PM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> No, I don't, because I haven't tried to use it. But allow me to give
>> two examples, one on each side of the argument.
>>
>> The 'tee' utility is primarily for writing a pipe to disk AND to
>> further pipelining, for instance:
>
> Could you please spent 10 minutes to read through the tutorial?

A fair criticism, and I am duly chastised. Okay. Now reading through
your web site... alright, I'm back.

>>  This is why I say it's likely not a good thing that your framework
>> *forces* the separation of model/view/controller. You make it
>> impossible to temporarily ignore the framework.
>
> Exactly. When you 'break out of the framework' you pile on technical debt. I want to force developers to not do that.

Philosophy point 2: Giotto does force users to do things the ?Giotto
way?. In other words, convention over configuration

Nice theory, but this is the bit that I fundamentally disagree with.
Forcing programmers to work in one particular style is usually not the
job of the language/framework/library. That should be up to the
programmer, or at least the local style guide. I do like your plan of
having identical interfaces to the same functionality (your example of
web-based and command-line is particularly appealing to my personal
tastes), but the same can usually be achieved with a well-built
library. In fact, all you need to do is have your model as a simple
Python module, and then the view and controller call on its functions.

What does your framework offer over a basic system like that?

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 14:41:11 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 05:41:11 +1100
Subject: How to use "while" within the command in -c option of python?
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qV5=EDYs66CrTJf=ObRM+O+bb9YOt-Z+oT5H6Ci9Nq1tQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOe_mhhn31Qb2iB1nWydWSm=MJ0xK0o5vxWR+mLeO5ggqwmwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2101.1350083051.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5078b6a9$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121013084132.GA5083@taris.box>
	<CAPTjJmrBc1hABysXXpkTs3YWnBukEg=WiZD2TFnUWnQmXJ-t7g@mail.gmail.com>
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On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 5:21 AM, Joshua Landau
<joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com> wrote:
> Because Python uses indentation, what would "if A: print(1); if B: print(2)"
> even do? It has to fail, because we have to assume consistent indentation
> for ";"s*. With "\n" as I proposed, you still have to indent: it is just a
> method to bypass lame shells [it would become "if A: print(1)\nif B:
> print(2)"].

sikorsky at sikorsky:~/cpython$ python -c "if False: print(1); print(2)"
sikorsky at sikorsky:~/cpython$ python -c "if True: print(1); print(2)"
1
2
sikorsky at sikorsky:~/cpython$

The semicolon separates statements, but doesn't change nesting levels.
The if statement increases the nesting level, which demands a
corresponding indentation increase if you go onto a new line; the
statement you describe is illegal because the 'if' isn't allowed to
not be at the beginning of the line, but it's unambiguous.

Of course, since Python lacks a non-whitespace way of indicating the
end of an if block, there's no way to put your "if A" and "if B" onto
the same line as peers. But that's a consequence of a design decision,
and one that can't easily be changed. Every language has warts like
that; eschewing variable declarations prevents infinite nesting of
scopes, but demanding variable declarations makes interactive work
harder. To paraphrase the Pirate King: Always follow the dictates of
your conscience, and accept the consequences.

ChrisA


From diolu at bigfoot.com  Sat Oct 13 14:43:58 2012
From: diolu at bigfoot.com (Olive)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 20:43:58 +0200
Subject: Understanding http proxies
Message-ID: <20121013204358.6d400240@pcolivier.chezmoi.net>

I am trying to understand how to build an http proxy server in python,
and I have found the following example:

http://www.oki-osk.jp/esc/python/proxy/

But I do not have found an exact description of what exactly a proxy
server is suppose to do (all references gice only the basic principe of
proxy that I know). In the following model

Client <-> Proxy <-> Server

it seems when I read the code above that the proxy acts mostly as an
orinary server with respect to the client except that it is supposed to
receive the full URL instead of just the path. Am I right? Is there any
documentation on what an http proxy is supposed to implement.

Olive


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 14:50:31 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 05:50:31 +1100
Subject: Understanding http proxies
In-Reply-To: <20121013204358.6d400240@pcolivier.chezmoi.net>
References: <20121013204358.6d400240@pcolivier.chezmoi.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpr8_A6XF=vUxAWFZPJNcq4xR0OLVmWidYEtXE+k53YXQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 5:43 AM, Olive <diolu at bigfoot.com> wrote:
> it seems when I read the code above that the proxy acts mostly as an
> orinary server with respect to the client except that it is supposed to
> receive the full URL instead of just the path. Am I right? Is there any
> documentation on what an http proxy is supposed to implement.

The easiest way to test this is to knock together a quick little
server, set your browser to use localhost as a proxy, and see what
requests you get.

You're correct as regards most requests, but HTTPS is more
complicated. All your proxy will see is a CONNECT request; you have to
accept or deny on the basis of address alone, you don't get the whole
URL (for obvious reasons). But that aside, yes, you'll normally get a
request that looks pretty similar to what the origin server would get.

ahh, happy memories of MUDding through a local proxy that permitted
CONNECT on more ports than 443... and even happier memories of getting
port 23 opened to direct access, hehe...

ChrisA


From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 15:06:01 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 20:06:01 +0100
Subject: How to use "while" within the command in -c option of python?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmoYAp702xj2dbVwjOwf1vLzYWvX5uEStvRBS+CHh8Tb9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOe_mhhn31Qb2iB1nWydWSm=MJ0xK0o5vxWR+mLeO5ggqwmwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2101.1350083051.27098.python-list@python.org>
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	<CAPTjJmrBc1hABysXXpkTs3YWnBukEg=WiZD2TFnUWnQmXJ-t7g@mail.gmail.com>
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	<CAPTjJmoYAp702xj2dbVwjOwf1vLzYWvX5uEStvRBS+CHh8Tb9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qXsaTpF1qKDEnP7GX7BL=fvabSefdDwusuBiS6TKK+LdA@mail.gmail.com>

On 13 October 2012 19:41, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 5:21 AM, Joshua Landau
> <joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Because Python uses indentation, what would "if A: print(1); if B:
> print(2)"
> > even do? It has to fail, because we have to assume consistent indentation
> > for ";"s*. With "\n" as I proposed, you still have to indent: it is just
> a
> > method to bypass lame shells [it would become "if A: print(1)\nif B:
> > print(2)"].
>
> sikorsky at sikorsky:~/cpython$ python -c "if False: print(1); print(2)"
> sikorsky at sikorsky:~/cpython$ python -c "if True: print(1); print(2)"
> 1
> 2
> sikorsky at sikorsky:~/cpython$
>
> The semicolon separates statements, but doesn't change nesting levels.
> The if statement increases the nesting level, which demands a
> corresponding indentation increase if you go onto a new line; the
> statement you describe is illegal because the 'if' isn't allowed to
> not be at the beginning of the line, but it's unambiguous.
>
> Of course, since Python lacks a non-whitespace way of indicating the
> end of an if block, there's no way to put your "if A" and "if B" onto
> the same line as peers. But that's a consequence of a design decision,
> and one that can't easily be changed. Every language has warts like
> that; eschewing variable declarations prevents infinite nesting of
> scopes, but demanding variable declarations makes interactive work
> harder. To paraphrase the Pirate King: Always follow the dictates of
> your conscience, and accept the consequences.
>

I get what you're saying, but I think my point is largely unchanged.

When I said  "*You could have some rules that govern ambiguities well, but
none that I can think of would be both backward-compatible and complete. If
it's incomplete we've just moved the goalpost*." I was referring to exactly
this (and a couple of other options). By allowing these we're just adding a
confusing way of introducing layers - we've still got a whole lot of syntax
we can't write in a single line.

The fact that your proposal can't allow "a=[]\nfor x in range(10):
a.append(x**a[-2])\nprint(a)" makes it somewhat an incomplete suggestion,
and code like:

while True: while True: break; break


is just confusing.

I don't want to sound closed, but the options I'm really open to are:

a) It does a limited set of things that make a those things nicer, ? la "@"
b) It does *almost* everything, minus some carefully-chosen things deemed
to quirky, ? la current newlines (which don't allow "if a: if b: pass")
c) It does everything that would be possible

Your example falls nicely between *a* and *b*, which I do not find
particularly helpful. Mine attempts *a* by only applying to "python -c",
but would be *c* if it didn't. I find the syntax to horrible for general
code, which is why I didn't suggest that.

Hopefully you see what I have against this suggestion, but also that I
agree there is a problem and that there may well be a good way to fix it.
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From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 16:52:34 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 21:52:34 +0100
Subject: Is `wsample` a proper name for a function like this?
In-Reply-To: <50777ed7$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <1326bd8c-4523-4712-be27-ab78189db735@googlegroups.com>
	<50766751$0$6512$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<3e07a789-5809-49f9-82e1-4ab904ce7481@googlegroups.com>
	<50777ed7$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qXwAUsY0-KTFrBfg9SJGCJUw00BPzVoPne3TR9KJ4hxaA@mail.gmail.com>

On 12 October 2012 03:22, Steven D'Aprano <
steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 23:44:42 -0700, suzaku wrote:
>
> > I think if a programmer has used the built-in `random` module before, he
> > would expect a function with "sample" in its name to return a population
> > sequence.
>
> I have used the random module for about fifteen years, and I still write
> random.sample when I need to use random.choice.
>
> In statistics, probability, and plain English, a sample can be a single
> item: that's why we can say "a sample" or "two samples".


Because I have no soul, I'm going to have to correct you here. We can write
"a multitude" or "several multitudes", but that doesn't mean a multitude
can contain but one item. It's singular because we have *one collection*,
not *one item*. That said, we can still have a sample *of one*. And *samples
* of one.

*teehee*


> > If a function is to return scalar value instead of sequence, I would
> > expect it to be named "choice".
>
> And I wouldn't. But what do I care? I'm never going to use the code
> you're talking about, so call it "sasquatch" if you like, it's no skin
> off my nose.
>
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From roel at roelschroeven.net  Sat Oct 13 17:14:44 2012
From: roel at roelschroeven.net (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 23:14:44 +0200
Subject: readline trick needed
In-Reply-To: <20121013095811.99486d56a423727c80ce7318@gmail.com>
References: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<20121013094404.72241509d6ca6697e67d9419@gmail.com>	<CAPTjJmqjz94j-PXBC-_NKgPROQA72CnEKMSL0pmQ9SxEbpHg_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121013095811.99486d56a423727c80ce7318@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5clk0$9sr$1@ger.gmane.org>

Etienne Robillard schreef:
> On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 00:47:52 +1100
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Excuse me?
>>
>> I'm not overly familiar with readline, so perhaps there is a really
>> obvious way to do what Steven's trying to do, but this post does not
>> appear to be the result of a lack of thinking.
>>
>> If it really IS that obvious to you, post a link to appropriate
>> documentation without the rudeness... that way it'll be useful to
>> everyone, not just cathartic to you.
>>
>> ChrisA
>> -- 
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> whatever. i don't feel much like replying to idiots today

Then simply don't. Much better then replying in such a rude way.

I leave the question of who is being an idiot here as an exercise to the 
reader.

-- 
"Too often we hold fast to the cliches of our forebears. We subject all
facts to a prefabricated set of interpretations. Too often we enjoy the
comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
         -- John F Kennedy

roel at roelschroeven.net



From roel at roelschroeven.net  Sat Oct 13 17:22:13 2012
From: roel at roelschroeven.net (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 23:22:13 +0200
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5cm20$j0p$1@ger.gmane.org>

Zero Piraeus schreef:
> :
> 
> Not sure exactly how to put this ...
> 
> I'm a mostly passive subscriber to this list - my posts here over the
> years could probably be counted without having to take my socks off -
> so perhaps I have no right to comment, but I've noticed a marked
> increase in aggressive language here lately, so I'm putting my head
> above the parapet to say that I don't appreciate it.

Same here. I've been lurking here for a number of years, and I've always 
regarded this list as an example of friendly civilized behavior, quite 
exceptional on the Internet. I also have the impression that situation 
is changing for the worse, and it worries me too.

-- 
"Too often we hold fast to the cliches of our forebears. We subject all
facts to a prefabricated set of interpretations. Too often we enjoy the
comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
         -- John F Kennedy

roel at roelschroeven.net



From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 17:31:49 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 22:31:49 +0100
Subject: readline trick needed
In-Reply-To: <k5clk0$9sr$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121013094404.72241509d6ca6697e67d9419@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqjz94j-PXBC-_NKgPROQA72CnEKMSL0pmQ9SxEbpHg_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121013095811.99486d56a423727c80ce7318@gmail.com>
	<k5clk0$9sr$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qXQA0oimHG63cf=m-Aw_jtp4Z-zU3K+ZmMh_Z=HsBWaNA@mail.gmail.com>

On 13 October 2012 22:14, Roel Schroeven <roel at roelschroeven.net> wrote:

> Etienne Robillard schreef:
>
>  On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 00:47:52 +1100
>> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Excuse me?
>>>
>>> I'm not overly familiar with readline, so perhaps there is a really
>>> obvious way to do what Steven's trying to do, but this post does not
>>> appear to be the result of a lack of thinking.
>>>
>>> If it really IS that obvious to you, post a link to appropriate
>>> documentation without the rudeness... that way it'll be useful to
>>> everyone, not just cathartic to you.
>>>
>>> ChrisA
>>> --
>>> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-list<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>>>
>>
>> whatever. i don't feel much like replying to idiots today
>>
>
> Then simply don't. Much better then replying in such a rude way.
>
> I leave the question of who is being an idiot here as an exercise to the
> reader.


I've not seen Etienne Robillard much before, so I think he's relatively
new. He appeared first, I think, two months ago with one post about how
"english" a word was, and then last month and this he'd done nothing but
try and weasel money from people and offend them.

*We just need to ignore him and warn newcomers*, similarly to how we deal
with 88888 Dihedral (a bot, btw).

So, yes, that's a purposeful troll.

Note, Etienne Robillard, that if you reply to me I will not respond. That
applies to more than this thread. I hope others do the same, and that
newcomers *are* warned.

With two irritants (including 88888), is it not advisable that python-list
gets an admin to block these accounts? Even if it does nothing more than
slow them, that's something.
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From timothy.c.delaney at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 17:35:28 2012
From: timothy.c.delaney at gmail.com (Tim Delaney)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 08:35:28 +1100
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <k5cm20$j0p$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<k5cm20$j0p$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAN8CLgkLKFiiYLVMWc4xAe_GwS+PuPL7VbPXpchtjzOnngBRtw@mail.gmail.com>

On 14 October 2012 08:22, Roel Schroeven <roel at roelschroeven.net> wrote:

> Zero Piraeus schreef:
>
>  :
>>
>> Not sure exactly how to put this ...
>>
>> I'm a mostly passive subscriber to this list - my posts here over the
>> years could probably be counted without having to take my socks off -
>> so perhaps I have no right to comment, but I've noticed a marked
>> increase in aggressive language here lately, so I'm putting my head
>> above the parapet to say that I don't appreciate it.
>>
>
> Same here. I've been lurking here for a number of years, and I've always
> regarded this list as an example of friendly civilized behavior, quite
> exceptional on the Internet. I also have the impression that situation is
> changing for the worse, and it worries me too.


If everyone *plonks* the jerks/trolls/bots/etc and no one responds to them,
they won't have an audience and will either go away; act out more (but no
one will see it); or reform and become a useful member of the group
(probably needing to change email addresses to be un-*plonked*).

The problem is mainly when people respond to them. That's what they want -
it gives them an audience. No matter how much you want to *just this once*
respond to one, resist the urge. And if you can't prevent yourself from
replying to someone who has quoted one in order to tell them that the
person is a known troll/bot, tell them privately, not on the list.

Cheers,

Tim Delaney
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 17:39:34 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 08:39:34 +1100
Subject: How to use "while" within the command in -c option of python?
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qXsaTpF1qKDEnP7GX7BL=fvabSefdDwusuBiS6TKK+LdA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOe_mhhn31Qb2iB1nWydWSm=MJ0xK0o5vxWR+mLeO5ggqwmwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2101.1350083051.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5078b6a9$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121013084132.GA5083@taris.box>
	<CAPTjJmrBc1hABysXXpkTs3YWnBukEg=WiZD2TFnUWnQmXJ-t7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qX50y6uVFXs6OxZaVYyUPT-1jLHqY5GoDr3x4Xctd0Xtw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmob-ugLjSJ1G7KWYUBNv_Ksu9Ow3xtzKhxsjRzFhpk7VA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qV5=EDYs66CrTJf=ObRM+O+bb9YOt-Z+oT5H6Ci9Nq1tQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoYAp702xj2dbVwjOwf1vLzYWvX5uEStvRBS+CHh8Tb9A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qXsaTpF1qKDEnP7GX7BL=fvabSefdDwusuBiS6TKK+LdA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpauoUTicj-ax30JaKuZ6sHzT4jwkJxfiWWm4ettw+A8A@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 6:06 AM, Joshua Landau
<joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com> wrote:
> The fact that your proposal can't allow "a=[]\nfor x in range(10):
> a.append(x**a[-2])\nprint(a)" makes it somewhat an incomplete suggestion,
> and code like:
>
>> while True: while True: break; break
>
> is just confusing.

Agreed. However, I don't think there's going to be _any_ perfect
solution for delimiting blocks, short of "from __future__ import
braces".

> I don't want to sound closed, but the options I'm really open to are:
>
> a) It does a limited set of things that make a those things nicer, ? la "@"
> b) It does almost everything, minus some carefully-chosen things deemed to
> quirky, ? la current newlines (which don't allow "if a: if b: pass")
> c) It does everything that would be possible
>
> Your example falls nicely between a and b, which I do not find particularly
> helpful. Mine attempts a by only applying to "python -c", but would be c if
> it didn't. I find the syntax to horrible for general code, which is why I
> didn't suggest that.
>

Your idea is an extension to the -c parameter that would technically
work, but be fairly hard to manage in anything other than the trivial
case. My idea is an extension to general syntax that would work in all
cases where you aren't trying to put a statement after the end of what
would be an indented block. Both have their limitations, but both
would be - as far as I can see - backward compatible.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 17:44:59 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 08:44:59 +1100
Subject: readline trick needed
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qXQA0oimHG63cf=m-Aw_jtp4Z-zU3K+ZmMh_Z=HsBWaNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121013094404.72241509d6ca6697e67d9419@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqjz94j-PXBC-_NKgPROQA72CnEKMSL0pmQ9SxEbpHg_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121013095811.99486d56a423727c80ce7318@gmail.com>
	<k5clk0$9sr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAN1F8qXQA0oimHG63cf=m-Aw_jtp4Z-zU3K+ZmMh_Z=HsBWaNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp4Z2+Js0B4vCrEL0UCPhx0yDH9a+stQj5oc3+jqDnjVg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Joshua Landau
<joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com> wrote:
> With two irritants (including 88888), is it not advisable that python-list
> gets an admin to block these accounts? Even if it does nothing more than
> slow them, that's something.

That's what killfiles are for. You have two options:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_file
http://bofh.ch/bofh/bsmh2.html

The first option is not perfect, as you'll still see replies that
quote such people's posts. The second has a few issues with local law
enforcement, but other than that, is a very effective means of
avoiding seeing their posts.

ChrisA


From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 18:00:09 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 23:00:09 +0100
Subject: How to use "while" within the command in -c option of python?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpauoUTicj-ax30JaKuZ6sHzT4jwkJxfiWWm4ettw+A8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOe_mhhn31Qb2iB1nWydWSm=MJ0xK0o5vxWR+mLeO5ggqwmwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2101.1350083051.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5078b6a9$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121013084132.GA5083@taris.box>
	<CAPTjJmrBc1hABysXXpkTs3YWnBukEg=WiZD2TFnUWnQmXJ-t7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qX50y6uVFXs6OxZaVYyUPT-1jLHqY5GoDr3x4Xctd0Xtw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmob-ugLjSJ1G7KWYUBNv_Ksu9Ow3xtzKhxsjRzFhpk7VA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qV5=EDYs66CrTJf=ObRM+O+bb9YOt-Z+oT5H6Ci9Nq1tQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoYAp702xj2dbVwjOwf1vLzYWvX5uEStvRBS+CHh8Tb9A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qXsaTpF1qKDEnP7GX7BL=fvabSefdDwusuBiS6TKK+LdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmpauoUTicj-ax30JaKuZ6sHzT4jwkJxfiWWm4ettw+A8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qXBp6gXhdV5Ax-MQS366=XTjZJJgkrri5w2co_XgJy-QA@mail.gmail.com>

On 13 October 2012 22:39, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 6:06 AM, Joshua Landau
> <joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com> wrote:
> > The fact that your proposal can't allow "a=[]\nfor x in range(10):
> > a.append(x**a[-2])\nprint(a)" makes it somewhat an incomplete suggestion,
> > and code like:
> >
> >> while True: while True: break; break
> >
> > is just confusing.
>
> Agreed. However, I don't think there's going to be _any_ perfect
> solution for delimiting blocks, short of "from __future__ import
> braces".


I don't know. I don't personally think of it as much of a problem, as the
only time this will ever really cause trouble is:
a) You can't enter newlines easily
b) It's a hassle to keep track of indentation

These only really apply to a few things.


>  > I don't want to sound closed, but the options I'm really open to are:
> >
> > a) It does a limited set of things that make a those things nicer, ? la
> "@"
> > b) It does almost everything, minus some carefully-chosen things deemed
> to
> > quirky, ? la current newlines (which don't allow "if a: if b: pass")
> > c) It does everything that would be possible
> >
> > Your example falls nicely between a and b, which I do not find
> particularly
> > helpful. Mine attempts a by only applying to "python -c", but would be c
> if
> > it didn't. I find the syntax to horrible for general code, which is why I
> > didn't suggest that.
> >
>
> Your idea is an extension to the -c parameter that would technically
> work, but be fairly hard to manage in anything other than the trivial
> case. My idea is an extension to general syntax that would work in all
> cases where you aren't trying to put a statement after the end of what
> would be an indented block. Both have their limitations, but both
> would be - as far as I can see - backward compatible.


Since you seem to want to solve the general case (I was under the
assumption that we were still only talking in the context of the OP) I have
an idea.

There could be a Python module that reads a file like this:

> if a: ${ print(1) $ print(2) $ while b: c() $ if g: ${ pass }$ }$ print(d)

and transforms it to the valid Python:
>
> if a:
>     print(1)
>     print(2)
>     while b: c()
>     if g:
>         pass
> print(d)


That is *also* callable from the command-line like so:

> python -m debrace -c "if a: ${ print(1) $ print(2) $ while b: c() $ if g:
> ${ pass }$ }$ print(d)"


This should solve both *a* and *b* above, and it would make life easier for
scripters. It's also easy to mock up, and from then we only need it in the
stdlib.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"${" means INDENT
"}$" means DEDENT
"$" means NEWLINE (similar to ";")
*"$" has a lower precedence than "${" or "}$"*
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 18:09:24 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 09:09:24 +1100
Subject: How to use "while" within the command in -c option of python?
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qXBp6gXhdV5Ax-MQS366=XTjZJJgkrri5w2co_XgJy-QA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOe_mhhn31Qb2iB1nWydWSm=MJ0xK0o5vxWR+mLeO5ggqwmwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2101.1350083051.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5078b6a9$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121013084132.GA5083@taris.box>
	<CAPTjJmrBc1hABysXXpkTs3YWnBukEg=WiZD2TFnUWnQmXJ-t7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qX50y6uVFXs6OxZaVYyUPT-1jLHqY5GoDr3x4Xctd0Xtw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmob-ugLjSJ1G7KWYUBNv_Ksu9Ow3xtzKhxsjRzFhpk7VA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qV5=EDYs66CrTJf=ObRM+O+bb9YOt-Z+oT5H6Ci9Nq1tQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoYAp702xj2dbVwjOwf1vLzYWvX5uEStvRBS+CHh8Tb9A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qXsaTpF1qKDEnP7GX7BL=fvabSefdDwusuBiS6TKK+LdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmpauoUTicj-ax30JaKuZ6sHzT4jwkJxfiWWm4ettw+A8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qXBp6gXhdV5Ax-MQS366=XTjZJJgkrri5w2co_XgJy-QA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp4pZXPCNbZ3eua+Ea_k-fP9kKMbtkspDdPBDtSmcdVfw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Joshua Landau
<joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com> wrote:
> That is also callable from the command-line like so:
>>
>> python -m debrace -c "if a: ${ print(1) $ print(2) $ while b: c() $ if g:
>> ${ pass }$ }$ print(d)"

Wait.... you're pretty much implementing from __future__ import braces?

ChrisA


From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 18:09:42 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 23:09:42 +0100
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <CAN8CLgkLKFiiYLVMWc4xAe_GwS+PuPL7VbPXpchtjzOnngBRtw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<k5cm20$j0p$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAN8CLgkLKFiiYLVMWc4xAe_GwS+PuPL7VbPXpchtjzOnngBRtw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qUvPrcRLx1XhR+wjaV8kBP6C09CrnEqni8x8HhLMmd0Dw@mail.gmail.com>

On 13 October 2012 22:35, Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 14 October 2012 08:22, Roel Schroeven <roel at roelschroeven.net> wrote:
>
>> Zero Piraeus schreef:
>>
>>  :
>>>
>>> Not sure exactly how to put this ...
>>>
>>> I'm a mostly passive subscriber to this list - my posts here over the
>>> years could probably be counted without having to take my socks off -
>>> so perhaps I have no right to comment, but I've noticed a marked
>>> increase in aggressive language here lately, so I'm putting my head
>>> above the parapet to say that I don't appreciate it.
>>>
>>
>> Same here. I've been lurking here for a number of years, and I've always
>> regarded this list as an example of friendly civilized behavior, quite
>> exceptional on the Internet. I also have the impression that situation is
>> changing for the worse, and it worries me too.
>
>
> If everyone *plonks* the jerks/trolls/bots/etc and no one responds to
> them, they won't have an audience and will either go away; act out more
> (but no one will see it); or reform and become a useful member of the group
> (probably needing to change email addresses to be un-*plonked*).
>
> The problem is mainly when people respond to them. That's what they want -
> it gives them an audience. No matter how much you want to *just this once*
> respond to one, resist the urge.
>

I agree up to here.


> And if you can't prevent yourself from replying to someone who has quoted
> one in order to tell them that the person is a known troll/bot, tell them
> privately, not on the list.
>

I don't know.  If it's not publicly obvious that the person if a trollbot,
then other people may miss it. Many doubted 88888's being a bot, and if
it's not open it may take a lot longer for people to spot the obvious.

A response to someone who quotes a trollbot just stating "*Username* is a
trollbot." where *no* further correspondence occurs doesn't seem like
trollbotbait to me, and it makes it easy for people to know who's been
warned.
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From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Oct 13 18:13:24 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 23:13:24 +0100
Subject: readline trick needed
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qXQA0oimHG63cf=m-Aw_jtp4Z-zU3K+ZmMh_Z=HsBWaNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121013094404.72241509d6ca6697e67d9419@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqjz94j-PXBC-_NKgPROQA72CnEKMSL0pmQ9SxEbpHg_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121013095811.99486d56a423727c80ce7318@gmail.com>
	<k5clk0$9sr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAN1F8qXQA0oimHG63cf=m-Aw_jtp4Z-zU3K+ZmMh_Z=HsBWaNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5cp06$842$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 13/10/2012 22:31, Joshua Landau wrote:
>
> With two irritants (including 88888), is it not advisable that python-list
> gets an admin to block these accounts? Even if it does nothing more than
> slow them, that's something.
>

Most irritants are mere amateurs compared to Ilias Lazaridis.  I wonder 
if he's *STILL* researching?

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 18:16:27 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 23:16:27 +0100
Subject: How to use "while" within the command in -c option of python?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmp4pZXPCNbZ3eua+Ea_k-fP9kKMbtkspDdPBDtSmcdVfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOe_mhhn31Qb2iB1nWydWSm=MJ0xK0o5vxWR+mLeO5ggqwmwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2101.1350083051.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5078b6a9$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121013084132.GA5083@taris.box>
	<CAPTjJmrBc1hABysXXpkTs3YWnBukEg=WiZD2TFnUWnQmXJ-t7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qX50y6uVFXs6OxZaVYyUPT-1jLHqY5GoDr3x4Xctd0Xtw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmob-ugLjSJ1G7KWYUBNv_Ksu9Ow3xtzKhxsjRzFhpk7VA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qV5=EDYs66CrTJf=ObRM+O+bb9YOt-Z+oT5H6Ci9Nq1tQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoYAp702xj2dbVwjOwf1vLzYWvX5uEStvRBS+CHh8Tb9A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qXsaTpF1qKDEnP7GX7BL=fvabSefdDwusuBiS6TKK+LdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmpauoUTicj-ax30JaKuZ6sHzT4jwkJxfiWWm4ettw+A8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qXBp6gXhdV5Ax-MQS366=XTjZJJgkrri5w2co_XgJy-QA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmp4pZXPCNbZ3eua+Ea_k-fP9kKMbtkspDdPBDtSmcdVfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qUUvNX_EhDgCWX4mDP-0bd4NP16EqOxtdKGUy9GgfPU9A@mail.gmail.com>

On 13 October 2012 23:09, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Joshua Landau
> <joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com> wrote:
> > That is also callable from the command-line like so:
> >>
> >> python -m debrace -c "if a: ${ print(1) $ print(2) $ while b: c() $ if
> g:
> >> ${ pass }$ }$ print(d)"
>
> Wait.... you're pretty much implementing from __future__ import braces?
>

But *without changing Python*. The Python that's run is brace-less. This is
a *pure module* and thus none of this will occur inside code, just in its
generation or on the command line.

Unless you want to use it on all of your files, in which case you're better
off with another language.
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From nbvfour at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 18:24:04 2012
From: nbvfour at gmail.com (nbvfour at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 15:24:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2132.1350153223.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2124.1350146902.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5f18f5d1-1442-4a10-922c-783dc6ddf657@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2132.1350153223.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9c958a7c-04db-4c6d-a8a2-38400e67e718@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, October 13, 2012 2:33:43 PM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
> 
> Nice theory, but this is the bit that I fundamentally disagree with.
> Forcing programmers to work in one particular style is usually not the
> job of the language/framework/library. That should be up to the
> programmer, or at least the local style guide. 

Have you ever read the zen of python? "Theres only one way to do it" is a core motto of the python language. In my opinion, this is the most important aspect of python and is what makes python so much better than PHP and perl and all the other "do it however you want, the more convoluted and obfuscated the better!" languages.

> I do like your plan of
> having identical interfaces to the same functionality (your example of
> web-based and command-line is particularly appealing to my personal
> tastes), but the same can usually be achieved with a well-built
> library. In fact, all you need to do is have your model as a simple
> Python module, and then the view and controller call on its functions.
> 
> What does your framework offer over a basic system like that?

This "well built library" you mention basically describes my framework. You write a model method/function that takes data and then returns data. All giotto does is extract that data from the controller, pass it on to the model, then take the output of the model and pass it in to the view. You write the view, you write the model. Giotto provides the API for making al this happen. Giotto doesn't care if your model calls Postgres or Mysql or Redis or RabbitMQ, thats not of any concern to the framework.

The advantage of this is that the framework can 'mock' out the model layer very easily. For instance, your front end designers can work on the HTML without needing to run postgres, and the backend developers can work on the backend through the command line.


From nbvfour at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 18:24:04 2012
From: nbvfour at gmail.com (nbvfour at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 15:24:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2132.1350153223.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2124.1350146902.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5f18f5d1-1442-4a10-922c-783dc6ddf657@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2132.1350153223.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9c958a7c-04db-4c6d-a8a2-38400e67e718@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, October 13, 2012 2:33:43 PM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
> 
> Nice theory, but this is the bit that I fundamentally disagree with.
> Forcing programmers to work in one particular style is usually not the
> job of the language/framework/library. That should be up to the
> programmer, or at least the local style guide. 

Have you ever read the zen of python? "Theres only one way to do it" is a core motto of the python language. In my opinion, this is the most important aspect of python and is what makes python so much better than PHP and perl and all the other "do it however you want, the more convoluted and obfuscated the better!" languages.

> I do like your plan of
> having identical interfaces to the same functionality (your example of
> web-based and command-line is particularly appealing to my personal
> tastes), but the same can usually be achieved with a well-built
> library. In fact, all you need to do is have your model as a simple
> Python module, and then the view and controller call on its functions.
> 
> What does your framework offer over a basic system like that?

This "well built library" you mention basically describes my framework. You write a model method/function that takes data and then returns data. All giotto does is extract that data from the controller, pass it on to the model, then take the output of the model and pass it in to the view. You write the view, you write the model. Giotto provides the API for making al this happen. Giotto doesn't care if your model calls Postgres or Mysql or Redis or RabbitMQ, thats not of any concern to the framework.

The advantage of this is that the framework can 'mock' out the model layer very easily. For instance, your front end designers can work on the HTML without needing to run postgres, and the backend developers can work on the backend through the command line.


From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 18:25:00 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 23:25:00 +0100
Subject: readline trick needed
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmp4Z2+Js0B4vCrEL0UCPhx0yDH9a+stQj5oc3+jqDnjVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121013094404.72241509d6ca6697e67d9419@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqjz94j-PXBC-_NKgPROQA72CnEKMSL0pmQ9SxEbpHg_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121013095811.99486d56a423727c80ce7318@gmail.com>
	<k5clk0$9sr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAN1F8qXQA0oimHG63cf=m-Aw_jtp4Z-zU3K+ZmMh_Z=HsBWaNA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmp4Z2+Js0B4vCrEL0UCPhx0yDH9a+stQj5oc3+jqDnjVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qVTJtCRio-gG+qDD+mHU+Jmz2N1zeNiumxHYvbVNxGqvA@mail.gmail.com>

On 13 October 2012 22:44, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Joshua Landau
> <joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com> wrote:
> > With two irritants (including 88888), is it not advisable that
> python-list
> > gets an admin to block these accounts? Even if it does nothing more than
> > slow them, that's something.
>
> That's what killfiles are for. You have two options:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_file
> http://bofh.ch/bofh/bsmh2.html
>
> The first option is not perfect, as you'll still see replies that
> quote such people's posts. The second has a few issues with local law
> enforcement, but other than that, is a very effective means of
> avoiding seeing their posts.


The first's no good for protecting the newbies though. If *troll* flames *
newbie*, then I want to be able to assure *newbie* that he's not done
anything wrong or stupid.

The second is a bit better, definitely, but what I'm wanting is to delegate
these tasks to python-list's admins. I'm lazy, see.
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From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 18:26:43 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 23:26:43 +0100
Subject: readline trick needed
In-Reply-To: <k5cp06$842$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121013094404.72241509d6ca6697e67d9419@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqjz94j-PXBC-_NKgPROQA72CnEKMSL0pmQ9SxEbpHg_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121013095811.99486d56a423727c80ce7318@gmail.com>
	<k5clk0$9sr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAN1F8qXQA0oimHG63cf=m-Aw_jtp4Z-zU3K+ZmMh_Z=HsBWaNA@mail.gmail.com>
	<k5cp06$842$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qV+UjkfOsFuH9U_Xtt=Deb1oYeT_3c6aFfFuq9HXi82bQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 13 October 2012 23:13, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On 13/10/2012 22:31, Joshua Landau wrote:
>
>>
>> With two irritants (including 88888), is it not advisable that python-list
>> gets an admin to block these accounts? Even if it does nothing more than
>> slow them, that's something.
>>
>>
> Most irritants are mere amateurs compared to Ilias Lazaridis.  I wonder if
> he's *STILL* researching?


My god, he even has an encyclopaedia
entry<http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Ilias-Lazaridis>.
Is he some kind of deity?
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 18:41:13 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 09:41:13 +1100
Subject: readline trick needed
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qVTJtCRio-gG+qDD+mHU+Jmz2N1zeNiumxHYvbVNxGqvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121013094404.72241509d6ca6697e67d9419@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqjz94j-PXBC-_NKgPROQA72CnEKMSL0pmQ9SxEbpHg_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121013095811.99486d56a423727c80ce7318@gmail.com>
	<k5clk0$9sr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAN1F8qXQA0oimHG63cf=m-Aw_jtp4Z-zU3K+ZmMh_Z=HsBWaNA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmp4Z2+Js0B4vCrEL0UCPhx0yDH9a+stQj5oc3+jqDnjVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qVTJtCRio-gG+qDD+mHU+Jmz2N1zeNiumxHYvbVNxGqvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr-KqCXR0L4wjiRiD-2uhtMSXLHbwQ8DyLEOnkvj2DDow@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 9:25 AM, Joshua Landau
<joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 13 October 2012 22:44, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Joshua Landau
>> <joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > With two irritants (including 88888), is it not advisable that
>> > python-list
>> > gets an admin to block these accounts? Even if it does nothing more than
>> > slow them, that's something.
>>
>> That's what killfiles are for. You have two options:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_file
>> http://bofh.ch/bofh/bsmh2.html
>>
>> The first option is not perfect, as you'll still see replies that
>> quote such people's posts. The second has a few issues with local law
>> enforcement, but other than that, is a very effective means of
>> avoiding seeing their posts.
>
>
> The first's no good for protecting the newbies though. If troll flames
> newbie, then I want to be able to assure newbie that he's not done anything
> wrong or stupid.
>
> The second is a bit better, definitely, but what I'm wanting is to delegate
> these tasks to python-list's admins. I'm lazy, see.

Agreed, defending newbies is important. But not everyone gets
frustrated at trolls. Those who don't, don't bother to killfile them,
and can respond in defense of the newbies. Also, if two or three
non-trolls respond to the original post, the angry troll is only one
of several, which helps dilute the problem a bit. Still not a
solution, but it helps.

ChrisA


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Oct 13 18:52:57 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 23:52:57 +0100
Subject: readline trick needed
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qV+UjkfOsFuH9U_Xtt=Deb1oYeT_3c6aFfFuq9HXi82bQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121013094404.72241509d6ca6697e67d9419@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqjz94j-PXBC-_NKgPROQA72CnEKMSL0pmQ9SxEbpHg_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121013095811.99486d56a423727c80ce7318@gmail.com>
	<k5clk0$9sr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAN1F8qXQA0oimHG63cf=m-Aw_jtp4Z-zU3K+ZmMh_Z=HsBWaNA@mail.gmail.com>
	<k5cp06$842$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAN1F8qV+UjkfOsFuH9U_Xtt=Deb1oYeT_3c6aFfFuq9HXi82bQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5crbh$ofi$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 13/10/2012 23:26, Joshua Landau wrote:
> On 13 October 2012 23:13, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 13/10/2012 22:31, Joshua Landau wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> With two irritants (including 88888), is it not advisable that python-list
>>> gets an admin to block these accounts? Even if it does nothing more than
>>> slow them, that's something.
>>>
>>>
>> Most irritants are mere amateurs compared to Ilias Lazaridis.  I wonder if
>> he's *STILL* researching?
>
>
> My god, he even has an encyclopaedia
> entry<http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Ilias-Lazaridis>.
> Is he some kind of deity?
>

Oh no he's far higher up the food chain than that.  Here's a starter
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!search/lazaridis$20banned/comp.lang.ruby/plR34TbM3vc/Ev-Hj5F8oKcJ

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 19:06:22 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 10:06:22 +1100
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
In-Reply-To: <9c958a7c-04db-4c6d-a8a2-38400e67e718@googlegroups.com>
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2124.1350146902.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5f18f5d1-1442-4a10-922c-783dc6ddf657@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2132.1350153223.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<9c958a7c-04db-4c6d-a8a2-38400e67e718@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrHoyVPP+VrEgHvAwJURPb8Gx1GJ65Xdbwwz2u8KvRnZg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 9:24 AM,  <nbvfour at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, October 13, 2012 2:33:43 PM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> Nice theory, but this is the bit that I fundamentally disagree with.
>> Forcing programmers to work in one particular style is usually not the
>> job of the language/framework/library. That should be up to the
>> programmer, or at least the local style guide.
>
> Have you ever read the zen of python? "Theres only one way to do it" is a core motto of the python language. In my opinion, this is the most important aspect of python and is what makes python so much better than PHP and perl and all the other "do it however you want, the more convoluted and obfuscated the better!" languages.

Many times, but 'import this' doesn't translate into a language rule
that all classes have an uppercase first letter and all non-classes
don't; nor does it require that it be impossible to combine two simple
statements onto one line (because it's equally "obvious" to put them
onto two lines). Some things are questions of style, and are and
should be both implemented.

ChrisA


From timothy.c.delaney at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 19:37:58 2012
From: timothy.c.delaney at gmail.com (Tim Delaney)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 10:37:58 +1100
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qUvPrcRLx1XhR+wjaV8kBP6C09CrnEqni8x8HhLMmd0Dw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<k5cm20$j0p$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAN8CLgkLKFiiYLVMWc4xAe_GwS+PuPL7VbPXpchtjzOnngBRtw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qUvPrcRLx1XhR+wjaV8kBP6C09CrnEqni8x8HhLMmd0Dw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN8CLgm5zQN9mOOMDCMcCkoahW14qDa581nB8WDtBN3KcaGHyA@mail.gmail.com>

>
> A response to someone who quotes a trollbot just stating "*Username* is a
> trollbot." where *no* further correspondence occurs doesn't seem like
> trollbotbait to me, and it makes it easy for people to know who's been
> warned.
>

If properly trimmed, so there is no reference to the troll/bot or any text
from the troll/bot - fine. But any reference to the original will make it
harder for those of us who use bayesian-based spam filtering.

Tim Delaney
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From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Oct 13 20:32:01 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 01:32:01 +0100
Subject: readline trick needed
In-Reply-To: <k5crbh$ofi$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121013094404.72241509d6ca6697e67d9419@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqjz94j-PXBC-_NKgPROQA72CnEKMSL0pmQ9SxEbpHg_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121013095811.99486d56a423727c80ce7318@gmail.com>
	<k5clk0$9sr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAN1F8qXQA0oimHG63cf=m-Aw_jtp4Z-zU3K+ZmMh_Z=HsBWaNA@mail.gmail.com>
	<k5cp06$842$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAN1F8qV+UjkfOsFuH9U_Xtt=Deb1oYeT_3c6aFfFuq9HXi82bQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<k5crbh$ofi$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <k5d143$u36$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 13/10/2012 23:52, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 13/10/2012 23:26, Joshua Landau wrote:
>> On 13 October 2012 23:13, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 13/10/2012 22:31, Joshua Landau wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> With two irritants (including 88888), is it not advisable that
>>>> python-list
>>>> gets an admin to block these accounts? Even if it does nothing more
>>>> than
>>>> slow them, that's something.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Most irritants are mere amateurs compared to Ilias Lazaridis.  I
>>> wonder if
>>> he's *STILL* researching?
>>
>>
>> My god, he even has an encyclopaedia
>> entry<http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Ilias-Lazaridis>.
>> Is he some kind of deity?
>>
>
> Oh no he's far higher up the food chain than that.  Here's a starter
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!search/lazaridis$20banned/comp.lang.ruby/plR34TbM3vc/Ev-Hj5F8oKcJ
>
>

Yes a real pro.  Trolling will never become an Olympic sport as the 
guy's so good nobody can compete with him.  (If he was American they'd 
still have a World Series though :)  Throw his name plus Eclipse, 
Netbeans and banned into your search engine of choice and enjoy, but 
beware that to really endulge yourself please stock up on vast 
quantities of caffeine and sandwiches first cos you'll need them.  For 
example this http://web.archiveorange.com/archive/v/7IfPlywrYZb0gAgMsPa1 
points to this http://www.tfeb.org/lisp/mad-people.html

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 20:43:52 2012
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 01:43:52 +0100
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrf4_Zcc29QtFCvzb9qHjErbVP_gSysG6HGgAu1f2WZ3Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmrf4_Zcc29QtFCvzb9qHjErbVP_gSysG6HGgAu1f2WZ3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxQYGoDdEzoL_fm5=zX6TV9S-A-gd3OSJpS5h9dLzjkC0w@mail.gmail.com>

On 13 October 2012 17:48, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The only way to support *absolutely everything* is to do nothing - to
> be a framework so thin you're invisible. (That's not to say you're
> useless; there are bridge modules that do exactly this - ctypes can
> call on any library function from Python; it must therefore abstract
> away nothing. But that's a very specific sort of case.) Anything else
> must by nature make some things easier and some things harder.

Without further ado I announce the release of my new library that
simultaneously does everything and nothing. It can be installed with:

    pip install ''

That's right: the library's name is the empty string (as it's source
and documentation). Don't be fooled by the error message from pip: the
library was correctly installed before you ran the command!

Other libraries have failed by imposing restrictions on usage in an
attempt to better serve a mere finite number of use cases. This
library is *equally optimal* for an uncountably infinite number of
purposes and comes with the strong guarantee that it will never
decrease your productivity in any situation whatsoever!


Oscar

P.S. I also have not taken 10 minutes to read the documentation for
giotto as I get the impression that is not relevant to any of my own
use cases.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Oct 13 22:25:28 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Oct 2012 02:25:28 GMT
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2124.1350146902.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5f18f5d1-1442-4a10-922c-783dc6ddf657@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2132.1350153223.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<9c958a7c-04db-4c6d-a8a2-38400e67e718@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <507a2298$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 15:24:04 -0700, nbvfour wrote:

> On Saturday, October 13, 2012 2:33:43 PM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> 
>> Nice theory, but this is the bit that I fundamentally disagree with.
>> Forcing programmers to work in one particular style is usually not the
>> job of the language/framework/library. That should be up to the
>> programmer, or at least the local style guide.
> 
> Have you ever read the zen of python? "Theres only one way to do it" is
> a core motto of the python language.

Have *you* ever read the Zen of Python? The line from the Zen is:

"There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it."

Paraphrasing for emphasis:

There SHOULD be one (or more, but one is best) OBVIOUS way to do it.

as opposed to languages where there are no obvious ways to things, or 
thirty.

Don't believe me that the emphasis is on *obvious* rather than "only"? 
The very next line of the Zen tells you:

"Although that way may not be OBVIOUS at first unless you're Dutch."

[emphasis added]

Not being Dutch, I don't know whether the obvious way to do command line 
argument handling is the getopt module or argparse. But there certainly 
isn't *only one way* to do command line argument handling.

It is a gross canard, mostly spread by Perl programmers, that Python is 
"limited" to "only one way to do it" and therefore isn't as good as Perl 
which gives you "more freedom" (to write unreadable, unmaintainable code).

It simply isn't true that Python only gives you "only one way". The 
acronym OOWTDI stands for *one obvious way to do it*.


-- 
Steven


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sat Oct 13 22:53:23 2012
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 21:53:23 -0500
Subject: one obvious parser (was "Feedback on my python framework I'm
	building.")
In-Reply-To: <507a2298$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org>	<4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2124.1350146902.27098.python-list@python.org>	<5f18f5d1-1442-4a10-922c-783dc6ddf657@googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2132.1350153223.27098.python-list@python.org>	<9c958a7c-04db-4c6d-a8a2-38400e67e718@googlegroups.com>
	<507a2298$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <507A2923.3000304@tim.thechases.com>

On 10/13/12 21:25, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Not being Dutch, I don't know whether the obvious way to do command line 
> argument handling is the getopt module or argparse. But there certainly 
> isn't *only one way* to do command line argument handling.

As an aside, I just watched a fascinating video[1] on docopt[2]
which seems like an amazingly simple way to build command-line UIs.
 I haven't toyed with it yet, but I just wanted to share my "wow,
that's slick" experience with the list.

-tkc


[1]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXhcPJK5cMc

[2]
http://docopt.org/







From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Oct 13 22:58:43 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 03:58:43 +0100
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
In-Reply-To: <507a2298$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2124.1350146902.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5f18f5d1-1442-4a10-922c-783dc6ddf657@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2132.1350153223.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<9c958a7c-04db-4c6d-a8a2-38400e67e718@googlegroups.com>
	<507a2298$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <507A2A63.2000005@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-14 03:25, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 15:24:04 -0700, nbvfour wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, October 13, 2012 2:33:43 PM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>>
>>> Nice theory, but this is the bit that I fundamentally disagree with.
>>> Forcing programmers to work in one particular style is usually not the
>>> job of the language/framework/library. That should be up to the
>>> programmer, or at least the local style guide.
>>
>> Have you ever read the zen of python? "Theres only one way to do it" is
>> a core motto of the python language.
>
> Have *you* ever read the Zen of Python? The line from the Zen is:
>
> "There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it."
>
> Paraphrasing for emphasis:
>
> There SHOULD be one (or more, but one is best) OBVIOUS way to do it.
>
> as opposed to languages where there are no obvious ways to things, or
> thirty.
>
> Don't believe me that the emphasis is on *obvious* rather than "only"?
> The very next line of the Zen tells you:
>
> "Although that way may not be OBVIOUS at first unless you're Dutch."
>
> [emphasis added]
>
> Not being Dutch, I don't know whether the obvious way to do command line
> argument handling is the getopt module or argparse. But there certainly
> isn't *only one way* to do command line argument handling.
>
> It is a gross canard, mostly spread by Perl programmers, that Python is
> "limited" to "only one way to do it" and therefore isn't as good as Perl
> which gives you "more freedom" (to write unreadable, unmaintainable code).
>
> It simply isn't true that Python only gives you "only one way". The
> acronym OOWTDI stands for *one obvious way to do it*.
>
I think it's the "Paradox of Choice".

The more choices there are, the more time you'll spend trying to decide
which one is "best".



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Oct 13 23:37:09 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Oct 2012 03:37:09 GMT
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2124.1350146902.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5f18f5d1-1442-4a10-922c-783dc6ddf657@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2132.1350153223.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <507a3365$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 05:33:40 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> Forcing programmers to work in one particular style is usually not the
> job of the language/framework/library.

Have you actually programmed before? 

*grin*

I've never come across a language/framework/library that DOESN'T force 
programmers to work in a particular style, at least to some degree.

Every language encourages certain styles, discourages others, and makes 
some impossible. Remember using PEEK and POKE commands with BASIC back in 
1978? Pretty much impossible in Python. Perl probably has a way to do it 
*wink* but few others do, and thank goodness we've moved on.

The sort of code you'll write in Fortran77 will be significantly 
different from that you'll write in Lisp or Java or Forth or Ocaml. 
Languages don't just differ in syntax, they differ in what they consider 
good idioms, or even *possible* idioms. Hence:

http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/python-is-not-java.html
http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/java-is-not-python-either.html

Can you write "Java in Python"? Well, to some degree you can. Any Turing 
complete language can be written in any other Turing complete language, 
with sufficient layers of indirection, modulo things which are completely 
impossible. You simply cannot do C-style pointer manipulations in Python, 
not without breaking out of Python (e.g. with ctypes).

Libraries and frameworks are in a similar boat. Can you write CherryPy in 
Django? Not easily. Generally the way to ignore a framework or library 
and write in a different style is to, well, ignore the framework or 
library and write in a different style :)

You can always step outside the bounds of the framework or library and 
write something in the programming language level. Just because numpy 
doesn't have some function I want, doesn't mean that I can't write it in 
Python -- and just because numpy wants to work with arrays doesn't mean I 
can't insist in using XML for my data, provided I convert it into an 
array each time I pass it to a numpy function and back to XML when it 
returns.

(For my next trick, watch as I eat three pounds of high-level radioactive 
waste!)

Now clearly some frameworks are lighter than others, some impose their 
style on your code like a big heavy weight on a rubber sheet, distorting 
everything for miles around. Others not so much. But I really don't see 
the problem here: if you don't like the "Twisted style" that it imposes, 
don't use Twisted, use another framework, or no framework at all.

I think it is a *good* thing that different languages/frameworks/
libraries have their own styles. The alternative isn't "many styles" but 
"one style": an unstylish mess.



-- 
Steven


From cs at zip.com.au  Sat Oct 13 23:59:24 2012
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 14:59:24 +1100
Subject: trouble with nested closures: one of my variables is missing...
Message-ID: <20121014035924.GA20414@cskk.homeip.net>

I'm having some trouble with closures when defining a decorator.

TL;DR:
  I have a function that makes a decorator, and only some of the names
  from an outer scope appear in the inner closure's locals().
  And I do not understand why at all.

Let me explain...

Environment: python 2.7.3 on MacOSX Mountain Lion from MacPorts.

Background: I have a decorator called "file_property" that watches a
file for changes and reloads the file at need. Otherwise it returns a
cached value. It has a lock and some sanity checks and works quite well.

Example method:

  class myclass(object):
    @file_property
    def rules(self):
      with open(self._rules_path) as rfp:
        R = parse(rfp)
      return R
  C = myclass()

and using C.rules fetches parses the rule file as needed and caches the
value until the file next changes.

I naively wrote file_property with a bunch of default parameters:

  def file_property(func, attr_name=None, unset_object=None, poll_rate=1):

and because I never overrode these failed to realise they're useless. Fine.

So, I'm rewriting file_property like this:

  def file_property(func):
    return make_file_property()(func)

i.e. it makes a "vanilla" file_property using the default internals.
Now I have make_file_property with the default parameters:

  def make_file_property(attr_name=None, unset_object=None, poll_rate=1):

which I might use as:

  class myclass(object):
    @make_file_property(poll_rate=3)
    def rules(self):
      with open(self._rules_path) as rfp:
        R = parse(rfp)
      return R

The inner function is the same, but it won't reload the file more often
that once every 3 seconds.

However, I can't make my make_file_property function work. I've stripped
the code down and it does this:

  [hg/css-mailfiler]fleet*1> python foo.py
  make_file_property(attr_name=None, unset_object=None, poll_rate=1): locals()={'attr_name': None, 'poll_rate': 1, 'unset_object': None}
  made_file_property(func=<function f at 0x10408b0c8>): locals()={'func': <function f at 0x10408b0c8>, 'unset_object': None}
  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "foo.py", line 21, in <module>
      def f(self, foo=1):
    File "foo.py", line 4, in file_property
      return make_file_property()(func)
    File "foo.py", line 10, in made_file_property
      if attr_name is None:
  UnboundLocalError: local variable 'attr_name' referenced before assignment

Observe above that 'unset_object' is in locals(), but not 'attr_name'.
This surprises me.

The stripped back code (missing the internals of the file property
watcher) looks like this:

  import sys

  def file_property(func):
    return make_file_property()(func)

  def make_file_property(attr_name=None, unset_object=None, poll_rate=1):
    print >>sys.stderr, "make_file_property(attr_name=%r, unset_object=%r, poll_rate=%r): locals()=%r" % (attr_name, unset_object, poll_rate,locals())
    def made_file_property(func):
      print >>sys.stderr, "made_file_property(func=%r): locals()=%r" % (func, locals())
      if attr_name is None:
        attr_name = '_' + func.__name__
      lock_name = attr_name + '_lock'
      def getprop(self):
        with getattr(self, lock_name):
          # innards removed here
          pass
        return getattr(self, attr_name, unset_object)
      return property(getprop)
    return made_file_property

  @file_property
  def f(self, foo=1):
    print "foo=%r" % (foo,)

  @make_file_property(attr_name="_blah")
  def f2(self, foo=2):
    print "foo=%r" % (foo,)

Can someone explain what I'm doing wrong, or tell me this is a python
bug?
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

Bolts get me through times of no courage better than courage gets me
through times of no bolts!
        - Eric Hirst <eric at u.washington.edu>


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Oct 14 00:20:28 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 15:20:28 +1100
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
In-Reply-To: <507a3365$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2124.1350146902.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5f18f5d1-1442-4a10-922c-783dc6ddf657@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2132.1350153223.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507a3365$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp84RMe9_Nex=T_t03+7H4jWh8jY90fyGs0w3o5oqwQng@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 05:33:40 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> Forcing programmers to work in one particular style is usually not the
>> job of the language/framework/library.
>
> Have you actually programmed before?
>
> *grin*
>
> I've never come across a language/framework/library that DOESN'T force
> programmers to work in a particular style, at least to some degree.

Style and technique aren't quite the same thing, though. Where you
draw the line between aspects the language should enforce and aspects
that should be up to the programmer is a tricky question. A language's
standard library certainly encourages a particular naming style, but
nothing enforces it.

Of course the language has to enforce something. I just don't think
that the MVC model should be part of what's enforced. What next?
Require that one file be one class and have nothing else in it?

ChrisA


From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sun Oct 14 00:23:42 2012
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 22:23:42 -0600
Subject: Understanding and dealing with an exception
Message-ID: <CALyJZZXtxD5HZCZ6C21-uPgxQUhvWw7xaUZsmPw-whTvhjGBsA@mail.gmail.com>

I am working on a script to find bad image files. I am using PIL
and specifically image.verify() I have a set of known to be bad image files
to test. I also what to be able to test any file for example a .txt and
deal with the exception.
Currently my code is basically

try:
    im = Image.open(ifile)
    try:
        print(im.verify())
    except:
        print('Pil image.verify() failed: ' + afile)
except IOError:
    print('PIL cannot identify image file: ' + afile)
except:
    print(ifile)
    print("Unexpected error doing PIL.Image.open():", sys.exc_info()[0])
    raise

I have a lot of file that have an IOError.  I would expect this error for
any non image file.
I have yet to have image.verify() All failures have been IOError.

Then I got this error (below). Which to me to me is a bug in PIL?
The file seems ok when I open it for editing in an external editor.

So my question, I don't what to raise this exception thereby stoping the
script nor record the image as bad or good. This would possibly lead to
false positives or negatives.
Then again I assume it would be possible to get this error because the file
is corrupt.
I am not really sure how to deal with this. Any advise.

fixed-width.psd
('Unexpected error doing PIL.Image.open():', <type
'exceptions.OverflowError'>)



OverflowError: Python int too large to convert to C long
File "/Volumes/Hafnium/Google Drive/bad images/untitled-2.py", line 21, in
<module>
  im = Image.open(ifile)
File
"/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/7.0/lib/python2.7/site-packages/PIL/Image.py",
line 1965, in open
  return factory(fp, filename)
File
"/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/7.0/lib/python2.7/site-packages/PIL/ImageFile.py",
line 91, in __init__
  self._open()
File
"/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/7.0/lib/python2.7/site-packages/PIL/PsdImagePlugin.py",
line 123, in _open
  self.layers = _layerinfo(self.fp)
File
"/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/7.0/lib/python2.7/site-packages/PIL/PsdImagePlugin.py",
line 230, in _layerinfo
  t = _maketile(file, m, bbox, 1)
File
"/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/7.0/lib/python2.7/site-packages/PIL/PsdImagePlugin.py",
line 266, in _maketile
  bytecount = read(channels * ysize * 2)

Vincent
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Oct 14 00:31:05 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 15:31:05 +1100
Subject: Understanding and dealing with an exception
In-Reply-To: <CALyJZZXtxD5HZCZ6C21-uPgxQUhvWw7xaUZsmPw-whTvhjGBsA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyJZZXtxD5HZCZ6C21-uPgxQUhvWw7xaUZsmPw-whTvhjGBsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo96WxHi-Y+ZbhQD3P3rBFLstn5OtOoydXZxDKpGcsjBg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net> wrote:
> OverflowError: Python int too large to convert to C long
> line 266, in _maketile
>   bytecount = read(channels * ysize * 2)

Is the file over 2GB? Might be a limitation, more than a bug, and one
that could possibly be raised by using a 64-bit build.

Alternatively, you could deem them invalid for exceeding your file
size limit (either before passing to PIL, or on catching this
exception).

ChrisA


From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sun Oct 14 00:36:30 2012
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 22:36:30 -0600
Subject: Understanding and dealing with an exception
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmo96WxHi-Y+ZbhQD3P3rBFLstn5OtOoydXZxDKpGcsjBg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyJZZXtxD5HZCZ6C21-uPgxQUhvWw7xaUZsmPw-whTvhjGBsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmo96WxHi-Y+ZbhQD3P3rBFLstn5OtOoydXZxDKpGcsjBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALyJZZUe51=Ge68X1Cnwsb4-eDGcxy3sOH9Yyzsay3h4MAOktw@mail.gmail.com>

Oops, I was going to make note of the file size. 1.2MB

Vincent



On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 10:31 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net>
> wrote:
> > OverflowError: Python int too large to convert to C long
> > line 266, in _maketile
> >   bytecount = read(channels * ysize * 2)
>
> Is the file over 2GB? Might be a limitation, more than a bug, and one
> that could possibly be raised by using a 64-bit build.
>
> Alternatively, you could deem them invalid for exceeding your file
> size limit (either before passing to PIL, or on catching this
> exception).
>
> ChrisA
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Oct 14 00:49:36 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 15:49:36 +1100
Subject: Understanding and dealing with an exception
In-Reply-To: <CALyJZZUe51=Ge68X1Cnwsb4-eDGcxy3sOH9Yyzsay3h4MAOktw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyJZZXtxD5HZCZ6C21-uPgxQUhvWw7xaUZsmPw-whTvhjGBsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmo96WxHi-Y+ZbhQD3P3rBFLstn5OtOoydXZxDKpGcsjBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALyJZZUe51=Ge68X1Cnwsb4-eDGcxy3sOH9Yyzsay3h4MAOktw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpi0-kSboeW130ineM2dO89TzQhoVVwfsURZoLCuWTUYQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 3:36 PM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net> wrote:
> Oops, I was going to make note of the file size. 1.2MB

Then I'd definitely declare the file bad; I don't know what the valid
ranges for channels and ysize are, but my reading of that is that your
file's completely corrupt, maybe even malicious. PIL probably ought to
check these things, so there may be a tracker issue coming from this,
but I'd be inclined to declare any thrown exception as meaning it's a
bad file. Call it "failed a security check" perhaps.

ChrisA


From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sun Oct 14 01:01:41 2012
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 23:01:41 -0600
Subject: Understanding and dealing with an exception
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpi0-kSboeW130ineM2dO89TzQhoVVwfsURZoLCuWTUYQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyJZZXtxD5HZCZ6C21-uPgxQUhvWw7xaUZsmPw-whTvhjGBsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmo96WxHi-Y+ZbhQD3P3rBFLstn5OtOoydXZxDKpGcsjBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALyJZZUe51=Ge68X1Cnwsb4-eDGcxy3sOH9Yyzsay3h4MAOktw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmpi0-kSboeW130ineM2dO89TzQhoVVwfsURZoLCuWTUYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALyJZZUVVXNR68FXNnuRCHAN_rRN_5O-R8bbHC7_P=NDrE78Sw@mail.gmail.com>

I can open it is and all looks good using Pixelmator (I don't have
Photoshop installed). I don't think there is anything wrong with the image.

Part of my question is a result of being new to actually using exceptions
in my programs and dealing with the exceptions is a primary part of what I
need to do with this program. When I get an exception that seems to be an
issue with PIL (i.e. not my program or a problem with the image) I am not
sure what the "right" or conventional way to deal with it is.

Vincent


On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 10:49 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 3:36 PM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net>
> wrote:
> > Oops, I was going to make note of the file size. 1.2MB
>
> Then I'd definitely declare the file bad; I don't know what the valid
> ranges for channels and ysize are, but my reading of that is that your
> file's completely corrupt, maybe even malicious. PIL probably ought to
> check these things, so there may be a tracker issue coming from this,
> but I'd be inclined to declare any thrown exception as meaning it's a
> bad file. Call it "failed a security check" perhaps.
>
> ChrisA
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Oct 14 01:07:01 2012
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 22:07:01 -0700
Subject: trouble with nested closures: one of my variables is missing...
In-Reply-To: <20121014035924.GA20414@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <20121014035924.GA20414@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRRyUp5oWW3Ap4RXes7yn_gCx-PGkJyfijsFtru-CLcEww@mail.gmail.com>

On Saturday, October 13, 2012, Cameron Simpson wrote:

> I'm having some trouble with closures when defining a decorator.

<snip>

> However, I can't make my make_file_property function work. I've stripped
> the code down and it does this:

<snip>

>   Traceback (most recent call last):
>     File "foo.py", line 21, in <module>
>       def f(self, foo=1):
>     File "foo.py", line 4, in file_property
>       return make_file_property()(func)
>     File "foo.py", line 10, in made_file_property
>       if attr_name is None:
>   UnboundLocalError: local variable 'attr_name' referenced before
> assignment
>
> Observe above that 'unset_object' is in locals(), but not 'attr_name'.
> This surprises me.
>
> The stripped back code (missing the internals of the file property
> watcher) looks like this:
>
>   import sys
>
>   def file_property(func):
>     return make_file_property()(func)
>
>   def make_file_property(attr_name=None, unset_object=None, poll_rate=1):
>     print >>sys.stderr, "make_file_property(attr_name=%r, unset_object=%r,
> poll_rate=%r): locals()=%r" % (attr_name, unset_object, poll_rate,locals())
>     def made_file_property(func):


You're missing a "nonlocal" declaration here.

      print >>sys.stderr, "made_file_property(func=%r): locals()=%r" %
> (func, locals())
>       if attr_name is None:
>         attr_name = '_' + func.__name__


 You assign to it, but there's no nonlocal declaration, so Python thinks
it's a local var, hence your error.

Pardon my brevity and some lack of trimming; I'm on a smartphone and in a
rush.

- Chris

      lock_name = attr_name + '_lock'
>       def getprop(self):
>         with getattr(self, lock_name):
>           # innards removed here
>           pass
>         return getattr(self, attr_name, unset_object)
>       return property(getprop)
>     return made_file_property
>
>   @file_property
>   def f(self, foo=1):
>     print "foo=%r" % (foo,)
>
>   @make_file_property(attr_name="_blah")
>   def f2(self, foo=2):
>     print "foo=%r" % (foo,)
>
> Can someone explain what I'm doing wrong, or tell me this is a python
> bug?
> --
> Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au <javascript:;>>
>
> Bolts get me through times of no courage better than courage gets me
> through times of no bolts!
>         - Eric Hirst <eric at u.washington.edu <javascript:;>>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


-- 
Cheers,
Chris
--
http://rebertia.com
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Oct 14 01:09:44 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 16:09:44 +1100
Subject: Understanding and dealing with an exception
In-Reply-To: <CALyJZZUVVXNR68FXNnuRCHAN_rRN_5O-R8bbHC7_P=NDrE78Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyJZZXtxD5HZCZ6C21-uPgxQUhvWw7xaUZsmPw-whTvhjGBsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmo96WxHi-Y+ZbhQD3P3rBFLstn5OtOoydXZxDKpGcsjBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALyJZZUe51=Ge68X1Cnwsb4-eDGcxy3sOH9Yyzsay3h4MAOktw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmpi0-kSboeW130ineM2dO89TzQhoVVwfsURZoLCuWTUYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALyJZZUVVXNR68FXNnuRCHAN_rRN_5O-R8bbHC7_P=NDrE78Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp7wRsZchbDyLenNGN4vRN1moPUu-N+m3c=De6vv4Mw9Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net> wrote:
> I can open it is and all looks good using Pixelmator (I don't have Photoshop
> installed). I don't think there is anything wrong with the image.
>
> Part of my question is a result of being new to actually using exceptions in
> my programs and dealing with the exceptions is a primary part of what I need
> to do with this program. When I get an exception that seems to be an issue
> with PIL (i.e. not my program or a problem with the image) I am not sure
> what the "right" or conventional way to deal with it is.

Ah, okay. Sorry, I don't know PIL at all, and was just reading the
error message itself. It does seem that you're trying to read more
than 1<<31 bytes from a 1.2MB file, though you could confirm that by
looking at the source code - the file and line as in the traceback.

ChrisA


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Sun Oct 14 01:39:22 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 01:39:22 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <CAN8CLgm5zQN9mOOMDCMcCkoahW14qDa581nB8WDtBN3KcaGHyA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<k5cm20$j0p$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAN8CLgkLKFiiYLVMWc4xAe_GwS+PuPL7VbPXpchtjzOnngBRtw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qUvPrcRLx1XhR+wjaV8kBP6C09CrnEqni8x8HhLMmd0Dw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN8CLgm5zQN9mOOMDCMcCkoahW14qDa581nB8WDtBN3KcaGHyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJU8n+EP5=Mg0jbamYhCk3d+VW7X-kxhAqh-HL0Rro4qWA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not a know it all, but when attacked personally I defend myself,
and those can turn into flame wars.

Your plonks are irrelevant in terms of an argument ytou shouldn't
participate in.

These things can get nasty quick.

So if you have virgin eyes, then kill file it, but I like to think
Ioffer logical reasoning to those who respect a good programming
conversation.

If you want it, bring it, but it's mainly just regular computer
science discussion.
-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Oct 14 04:20:37 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 09:20:37 +0100
Subject: Understanding and dealing with an exception
In-Reply-To: <CALyJZZXtxD5HZCZ6C21-uPgxQUhvWw7xaUZsmPw-whTvhjGBsA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyJZZXtxD5HZCZ6C21-uPgxQUhvWw7xaUZsmPw-whTvhjGBsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5dsjs$864$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 14/10/2012 05:23, Vincent Davis wrote:
> I am working on a script to find bad image files. I am using PIL
> and specifically image.verify() I have a set of known to be bad image files
> to test. I also what to be able to test any file for example a .txt and
> deal with the exception.
> Currently my code is basically
>
> try:
>      im = Image.open(ifile)
>      try:
>          print(im.verify())
>      except:
>          print('Pil image.verify() failed: ' + afile)
> except IOError:
>      print('PIL cannot identify image file: ' + afile)
> except:
>      print(ifile)
>      print("Unexpected error doing PIL.Image.open():", sys.exc_info()[0])
>      raise

[snip]

>
> Vincent
>

You've already had some advice so I'll just point out that a bare except 
is a bad idea as you wouldn't even be able to catch a user interrupt. 
Try (groan!) catching StandardError instead.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From xs.nepaul at gmail.com  Sun Oct 14 04:58:57 2012
From: xs.nepaul at gmail.com (nepaul)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 01:58:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?python_game_develop=EF=BC=9Aframework=EF=BC=9F?=
Message-ID: <3780257a-bcb0-4373-b492-d61e3ffce5c3@googlegroups.com>

Something good framwork?


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Oct 14 06:06:16 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 06:06:16 -0400
Subject: Understanding and dealing with an exception
In-Reply-To: <k5dsjs$864$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CALyJZZXtxD5HZCZ6C21-uPgxQUhvWw7xaUZsmPw-whTvhjGBsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<k5dsjs$864$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <k5e2qq$jpl$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/14/2012 4:20 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> You've already had some advice so I'll just point out that a bare except
> is a bad idea as you wouldn't even be able to catch a user interrupt.
> Try (groan!) catching StandardError instead.

There are some bare except:s in the stdlib, that adding another is 
frowned on and removing one is smiled upon.

However:
 >>> StandardError
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<pyshell#0>", line 1, in <module>
     StandardError
NameError: name 'StandardError' is not defined

Try:
 >>> Exception
<class 'Exception'>

This catches everything except a few things like Keyboard Interrupt that 
you normally should not catch.

 >>> BaseException
<class 'BaseException'>

This catches everything, but signals that doing so is probably intentional.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Oct 14 06:17:54 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Oct 2012 10:17:54 GMT
Subject: python game =?iso-2022-kr?q?develop=0E#=3A=0Fframework=0E#=3F=0F?=
References: <3780257a-bcb0-4373-b492-d61e3ffce5c3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <507a9151$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 01:58:57 -0700, nepaul wrote:

> Something good framwork?

http://duckduckgo.com/?q=python+%2Bgame+frameworks
http://duckduckgo.com/?q=python+%2Bgame+libraries
http://blekko.com/ws/?q=python%20game%20framework


-- 
Steven


From bartholomae.juergen at googlemail.com  Sun Oct 14 06:36:28 2012
From: bartholomae.juergen at googlemail.com (Juergen Bartholomae)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 12:36:28 +0200
Subject: __builtins__ thread-safe / __builtins__ as function?
In-Reply-To: <50772BEA.309@davea.name>
References: <CAAj3U_Ce+F6u+mhUy+_3uNXp4ck2QXtUw+7VG4wo9H88hJs0pQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50772BEA.309@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CAAj3U_AhyqLaCFNX8QbnkiY0pPec15BPxZr5DJ2bbKmgZ8PYUQ@mail.gmail.com>

>> One possible solution  is to somehow redirect every __builtins__ to a
>> function that returns a different __builtins__ dictionary for each thread
>> (such a function already exists).

>How exactly does the code reference it? If they're simply referring to
>the name __builtins__ at module level, you ought to be able to import
>the module, then assign some_module.__builtins__ to your thread-local
>object, then call code in it as normal.

>An interesting problem, and one where monkeypatching is, imho, justified.

>ChrisA

Hello, and thanks for your answer.
Unfortunately, replacing __builtins__ at import time won't do, because
external modules (that is, .py) get imported only once when they are
accessed by the first thread, which includes (of course) setting up of
__dict__ and __builtins__. When a second thread later accesses this
module, it has the same variables in __builtins__ that were added by
the same module in first thread
And if the second thread then changes the values, I can see these
same changes in the first thread.
-> The problem is that __builtins__ are global, not thread-safe.

The only solution I can see is therfor redirecting __builtins__ to a
function which returns a different dictionary for each thread, e.g.
by intercepting __builtins__-calls with __readattr__.
To do this, I would need my own class to define __readattr__ in
since (as far as I know) I can't define __readattr__ in a module,
and I can't change metaclass <module> of course.

I really don't know how to get around this problem...
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From hexusnexus at gmail.com  Sun Oct 14 06:36:49 2012
From: hexusnexus at gmail.com (Jason Benjamin)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 03:36:49 -0700
Subject: python game =?UTF-8?B?ZGV2ZWxvcO+8mmZyYW1ld29ya++8nw==?=
In-Reply-To: <3780257a-bcb0-4373-b492-d61e3ffce5c3@googlegroups.com>
References: <3780257a-bcb0-4373-b492-d61e3ffce5c3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k5e4k1$1uj$1@news.albasani.net>

Pygame is my favorite.  It's mature, has good documentation, and has 
lots of unfinished and finished games on its website.  It also supports 
OpenGL.

http://www.pygame.org/

On 10/14/2012 01:58 AM, nepaul wrote:
> Something good framwork?
>



From LeBas  Sun Oct 14 06:57:36 2012
From: LeBas (LeBas)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 21:57:36 +1100
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_python_game_develop=EF=BC=9Aframework=EF=BC=9F?=
References: <3780257a-bcb0-4373-b492-d61e3ffce5c3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2012101421573696012-@news.iinet.net.au>

On 2012-10-14 08:58:57 +0000, nepaul said:

> Something good framwork?

I just want to sencond PyGame. It's compelling with a good user base 
and has development activity e.g. patches and improvements etc. are 
provided.



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Oct 14 07:17:29 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 12:17:29 +0100
Subject: Understanding and dealing with an exception
In-Reply-To: <k5e2qq$jpl$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CALyJZZXtxD5HZCZ6C21-uPgxQUhvWw7xaUZsmPw-whTvhjGBsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<k5dsjs$864$1@ger.gmane.org> <k5e2qq$jpl$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <k5e6vo$hga$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 14/10/2012 11:06, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 10/14/2012 4:20 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>
>> You've already had some advice so I'll just point out that a bare except
>> is a bad idea as you wouldn't even be able to catch a user interrupt.
>> Try (groan!) catching StandardError instead.
>
> There are some bare except:s in the stdlib, that adding another is
> frowned on and removing one is smiled upon.
>
> However:
>  >>> StandardError
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<pyshell#0>", line 1, in <module>
>      StandardError
> NameError: name 'StandardError' is not defined
>
> Try:
>  >>> Exception
> <class 'Exception'>
>
> This catches everything except a few things like Keyboard Interrupt that
> you normally should not catch.
>
>  >>> BaseException
> <class 'BaseException'>
>
> This catches everything, but signals that doing so is probably intentional.
>

White Man type with forked fingers?

c:\Users\Mark\Cash\Python>python
Python 2.7.3 (default, Apr 10 2012, 23:31:26) [MSC v.1500 32 bit 
(Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> StandardError
<type 'exceptions.StandardError'>

Perhaps not.

c:\Users\Mark\Cash\Python>py -3
Python 3.3.0 (v3.3.0:bd8afb90ebf2, Sep 29 2012, 10:55:48) [MSC v.1600 32 
bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> StandardError
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
NameError: name 'StandardError' is not defined

Down to this http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3151/ or was it done 
earlier?

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Oct 14 07:42:41 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 12:42:41 +0100
Subject: LinkedIn Python group discussions
Message-ID: <k5e8eg$ro2$1@ger.gmane.org>

I've been sparked into raising the subject as this has just come up 
"Does Jython/Python fall short of true POSIX thread parallelism?".  I'm 
not qualified to comment and I recognise relatively few names amongst 
the people who do participate over there.  The last thing I'd want would 
be FUD or worse still complete crap being written in response to any 
thread and me not being in a position to reply.  Is this something for 
the Python community here to be thinking about?

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From roy at panix.com  Sun Oct 14 08:48:24 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 08:48:24 -0400
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2124.1350146902.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5f18f5d1-1442-4a10-922c-783dc6ddf657@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2132.1350153223.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507a3365$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <roy-275D3A.08482414102012@news.panix.com>

In article <507a3365$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d at news.astraweb.com>,
 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:

> Remember using PEEK and POKE commands with BASIC back in 
> 1978? Pretty much impossible in Python. 

But, trivial to implement as an extension :-)


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Oct 14 10:01:21 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 01:01:21 +1100
Subject: __builtins__ thread-safe / __builtins__ as function?
In-Reply-To: <CAAj3U_AhyqLaCFNX8QbnkiY0pPec15BPxZr5DJ2bbKmgZ8PYUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAj3U_Ce+F6u+mhUy+_3uNXp4ck2QXtUw+7VG4wo9H88hJs0pQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50772BEA.309@davea.name>
	<CAAj3U_AhyqLaCFNX8QbnkiY0pPec15BPxZr5DJ2bbKmgZ8PYUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrYQkYjBFr7EG4AMCdyHVwDAavFofZGKF19ivh=wveYsA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 9:36 PM, Juergen Bartholomae
<bartholomae.juergen at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Unfortunately, replacing __builtins__ at import time won't do, because
> external modules (that is, .py) get imported only once when they are
> accessed by the first thread, which includes (of course) setting up of
> __dict__ and __builtins__. When a second thread later accesses this
> module, it has the same variables in __builtins__ that were added by
> the same module in first thread

Sure. But if they're using __builtins__ by name, then you can simply
replace that with something that checks a thread id and responds with
that thread's dictionary. There's no particular reason for
__builtins__ to be a module (as far as I know!), so you should be able
to replace it with an object of your own class.

I think DaveA's recommendation is good. Make a "Version 2.0" of your
system, with a different way of doing global state.

ChrisA


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Oct 14 11:13:59 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 16:13:59 +0100
Subject: Understanding and dealing with an exception
In-Reply-To: <CALyJZZXtxD5HZCZ6C21-uPgxQUhvWw7xaUZsmPw-whTvhjGBsA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyJZZXtxD5HZCZ6C21-uPgxQUhvWw7xaUZsmPw-whTvhjGBsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <507AD6B7.2040607@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-14 05:23, Vincent Davis wrote:
> I am working on a script to find bad image files. I am using PIL
> and specifically image.verify() I have a set of known to be bad image
> files to test. I also what to be able to test any file for example a
> .txt and deal with the exception.
> Currently my code is basically
>
> try:
>      im = Image.open(ifile)
>      try:
>          print(im.verify())
>      except:
>          print('Pil image.verify() failed: ' + afile)
> except IOError:
>      print('PIL cannot identify image file: ' + afile)
> except:
>      print(ifile)
>      print("Unexpected error doing PIL.Image.open():", sys.exc_info()[0])
>      raise
>
[snip]
I notice that you have both "ifile" and "afile". Is that correct?



From jjmeric at free.fr  Sun Oct 14 12:55:13 2012
From: jjmeric at free.fr (jjmeric)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 18:55:13 +0200
Subject: pyw program not displaying unicode characters properly
Message-ID: <MPG.2ae50ce060f7e130989681@news.free.fr>


Hi everybody !

Our language lab at INALCO is using a nice language parsing and analysis 
program written in Python. As you well know a lot of languages use 
characters that can only be handled by unicode.

Here is an example of the problem we have on some Windows computers.
In the attached screen-shot (DELETED), 
the bambara character (a sort of epsilon)  is displayed as a square.

The fact that it works fine on some computers and fails to display the 
characters on others suggests that it is a user configuration issue:
Recent observations: it's OK on Windows 7 but not on Vista computers,
it's OK on some Windows XP computers, it's not on others Windows XP...

On the computers where it fails, we've tried to play with options in the 
International settings, but are not able to fix it.

Any idea that would help us go in the right direction, or just fix it, 
is welcome !

Thanks!
I ni ce! (in bambara, a language spoken in Mali, West Africa)


From alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr  Sun Oct 14 13:19:33 2012
From: alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (Alain Ketterlin)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 19:19:33 +0200
Subject: pyw program not displaying unicode characters properly
References: <MPG.2ae50ce060f7e130989681@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <87626dc6oq.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>

jjmeric <jjmeric at free.fr> writes:

> Our language lab at INALCO is using a nice language parsing and analysis 
> program written in Python. As you well know a lot of languages use 
> characters that can only be handled by unicode.
>
> Here is an example of the problem we have on some Windows computers.
> In the attached screen-shot (DELETED), 

Usenet has no attachments. Place your document on some publicly
accessible web-servers, if needed.

> the bambara character (a sort of epsilon)  is displayed as a square.
>
> The fact that it works fine on some computers and fails to display the 
> characters on others suggests that it is a user configuration issue:
> Recent observations: it's OK on Windows 7 but not on Vista computers,
> it's OK on some Windows XP computers, it's not on others Windows XP...

You need a font that has glyphs for all unicode characters (at least the
ones you use). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode_font for a
start. I don't know enough about Windows to give you a name. Anyone?

-- Alain.

P/S: and this has not much to do with python, which will happily send
out any unicode char, and cannot know which ones your terminal/whatever
will be able to display


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Oct 14 13:31:20 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 18:31:20 +0100
Subject: pyw program not displaying unicode characters properly
In-Reply-To: <MPG.2ae50ce060f7e130989681@news.free.fr>
References: <MPG.2ae50ce060f7e130989681@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <507AF6E8.5020803@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-14 17:55, jjmeric wrote:
>
> Hi everybody !
>
> Our language lab at INALCO is using a nice language parsing and analysis
> program written in Python. As you well know a lot of languages use
> characters that can only be handled by unicode.
>
> Here is an example of the problem we have on some Windows computers.
> In the attached screen-shot (DELETED),
> the bambara character (a sort of epsilon)  is displayed as a square.
>
> The fact that it works fine on some computers and fails to display the
> characters on others suggests that it is a user configuration issue:
> Recent observations: it's OK on Windows 7 but not on Vista computers,
> it's OK on some Windows XP computers, it's not on others Windows XP...
>
> On the computers where it fails, we've tried to play with options in the
> International settings, but are not able to fix it.
>
> Any idea that would help us go in the right direction, or just fix it,
> is welcome !
>
> Thanks!
> I ni ce! (in bambara, a language spoken in Mali, West Africa)
>
A square is shown when the font being used doesn't contain a visible
glyph for the codepoint.

Which codepoint is it? What is the codepoint's name?

Here's how to find out:

 >>> hex(ord("?"))
'0x190'
 >>> import unicodedata
 >>> unicodedata.name("?")
'LATIN CAPITAL LETTER OPEN E'



From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sun Oct 14 15:31:42 2012
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 13:31:42 -0600
Subject: Understanding and dealing with an exception
In-Reply-To: <507AD6B7.2040607@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <CALyJZZXtxD5HZCZ6C21-uPgxQUhvWw7xaUZsmPw-whTvhjGBsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<507AD6B7.2040607@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <CALyJZZVx9a=m5udPBj0UjXMFZQX61ZBkCOSTmrZWw6c9wugXtA@mail.gmail.com>

Yes afile is the file name and extension, ifile is the full file name and
path.

Thanks
Vincent

On Sunday, October 14, 2012, MRAB wrote:

> On 2012-10-14 05:23, Vincent Davis wrote:
>
>> I am working on a script to find bad image files. I am using PIL
>> and specifically image.verify() I have a set of known to be bad image
>> files to test. I also what to be able to test any file for example a
>> .txt and deal with the exception.
>> Currently my code is basically
>>
>> try:
>>      im = Image.open(ifile)
>>      try:
>>          print(im.verify())
>>      except:
>>          print('Pil image.verify() failed: ' + afile)
>> except IOError:
>>      print('PIL cannot identify image file: ' + afile)
>> except:
>>      print(ifile)
>>      print("Unexpected error doing PIL.Image.open():", sys.exc_info()[0])
>>      raise
>>
>>  [snip]
> I notice that you have both "ifile" and "afile". Is that correct?
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-list<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>


-- 
Vincent Davis
720-301-3003
-------------- next part --------------
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From jjmeric at free.fr  Sun Oct 14 15:36:54 2012
From: jjmeric at free.fr (jjmeric)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 21:36:54 +0200
Subject: pyw program not displaying unicode characters properly
References: <MPG.2ae50ce060f7e130989681@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2178.1350235875.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <MPG.2ae5305c2cd0f29989682@news.free.fr>

Alain, MRAB
Thank you for prompt responses.

What they suggest to me is I should look into what font is being used by 
this Python for Windows program.
I am not the programmer, so not idea where to look for.
The program settings do not include a choice for display font.

The font that used for display resembles a sort of Helvetica, but no 
idea how to check this.

Is there some sort of defaut font, or is there in Python or Python for 
Windows any ini file where the font used can be seen, eventually changed 
to a more appropriate one with all the required glyphs (like Lucida Sans 
Unicode has).

Thanks again...




From timr at probo.com  Sun Oct 14 15:58:26 2012
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 12:58:26 -0700
Subject: Understanding http proxies
References: <20121013204358.6d400240@pcolivier.chezmoi.net>
Message-ID: <q16m785u5oisfpmlib0dshhbla5ia7c5r5@4ax.com>

Olive <diolu at bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>it seems when I read the code above that the proxy acts mostly as an
>orinary server with respect to the client except that it is supposed to
>receive the full URL instead of just the path. Am I right? Is there any
>documentation on what an http proxy is supposed to implement.

Consider the ways HTTP could have been implemented.  Say we have a request
to get http://www.bigsite.com/pictures/index.html .

One way HTTP could have been implemented is by sending this request to the
server at www.bigsite.com:

    GET /pictures/index.html HTTP/1.0

If that were how HTTP were done, you could not implement a proxy, because
there isn't enough information for any intermediates to know where the
request had to end up.

Instead, http looks like this:

    GET /pictures/index.html HTTP/1.1
    Host: www.bigsite.com

Now, even if this is sent to someone who is not "www.bigsite.com", that
receipient can tell exactly who is supposed to get the message.

So, a web proxy receives requests intended for other sites, and forwards
them on, possibly after restricting or modifying them.  That's it.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From clinicalfilm at gmail.com  Sun Oct 14 16:11:55 2012
From: clinicalfilm at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JLQu9Cw0LTQuNC80LjRgCDQn9GL0LvQtdCy?=)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 13:11:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tkinter how to access the widget by name
Message-ID: <40621ce6-1b68-4cfa-8baf-cbfefce4f32b@googlegroups.com>

I'm a little teapot ... himself the question: if I want to appeal to the widget, knowing his name... ?

# appropriated the name of the widget
label = Label(frame, width = 40, text='text', name = 'name')
...
name_='name'
configure(name_)
...
def configure(name_)
        #And how can that be?
        # At least let the text you want to change ....

I beg you ..!!!!


From roy at panix.com  Sun Oct 14 16:30:08 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 16:30:08 -0400
Subject: pyw program not displaying unicode characters properly
References: <MPG.2ae50ce060f7e130989681@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2178.1350235875.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-9529A0.16300814102012@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2178.1350235875.27098.python-list at python.org>,
 MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
 
> Which codepoint is it? What is the codepoint's name?
> 
> Here's how to find out:
> 
>  >>> hex(ord("?"))
> '0x190'
>  >>> import unicodedata
>  >>> unicodedata.name("?")
> 'LATIN CAPITAL LETTER OPEN E'

Wow, I never knew you could do that.  I usually just google for "unicode 
0190" :-)


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Oct 14 17:01:03 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Oct 2012 21:01:03 GMT
Subject: pyw program not displaying unicode characters properly
References: <MPG.2ae50ce060f7e130989681@news.free.fr>
	<87626dc6oq.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
Message-ID: <507b280e$0$6512$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 19:19:33 +0200, Alain Ketterlin wrote:

> Usenet has no attachments. 

*snarfle*

You almost owed me a new monitor. I nearly sprayed my breakfast all over 
it.

"Usenet has no attachments" -- that's like saying that the Web has no 
advertisements. Maybe the websites you visit have no advertisements, but 
there's a *vast* (and often disturbing) part of the WWW that has 
advertisements, some sites are nothing but advertisements.

And so it is with Usenet, there is a vast (and often disturbing) area of 
Usenet containing attachments, and often nothing but attachments. The 
vast volume of all these attachments are such that it is getting hard to 
find ISPs that provide free access to binary newsgroups, but some still 
do, and dedicated for-fee Usenet providers do too.


-- 
Steven


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sun Oct 14 17:19:23 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 15:19:23 -0600
Subject: pyw program not displaying unicode characters properly
In-Reply-To: <MPG.2ae5305c2cd0f29989682@news.free.fr>
References: <MPG.2ae50ce060f7e130989681@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2178.1350235875.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<MPG.2ae5305c2cd0f29989682@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmw8mnDqC+cbmuRt1_4=aE+0U5e6uymt2AsWQd2b5A=Lg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 1:36 PM, jjmeric <jjmeric at free.fr> wrote:
> Is there some sort of defaut font, or is there in Python or Python for
> Windows any ini file where the font used can be seen, eventually changed
> to a more appropriate one with all the required glyphs (like Lucida Sans
> Unicode has).

No, this is up to the program and the GUI framework it uses.  Do you
have any idea which one that would be (e.g. Tkinter, wxPython, PyQT,
etc.)?


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Oct 14 17:31:37 2012
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 08:31:37 +1100
Subject: Use the appropriate forum for recruitment (was: Client Needs Linux
	Admin position in Pleasanton, CA)
References: <2eecc6ae-ca21-4f93-b0fc-109e7ea1389b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7wvcecbv0m.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

ram dev <ramdevtech.netinc at gmail.com> writes:

> Good Day,
> We have an urgent Contract Opening in  Pleasanton, CA.

Please don't use this discussion forum for recruitment.

For Python job recruiters and seekers, we have a separate Python Job
Board <URL:http://www.python.org/community/jobs/>.

> Job Title: Linux Admin 

You should find a Linux job board for that.

-- 
 \       ?I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them |
  `\    to do to their fellows, because it always coincides with their |
_o__)                      own desires.? ?Susan Brownell Anthony, 1896 |
Ben Finney



From jjmeric at free.fr  Sun Oct 14 17:39:14 2012
From: jjmeric at free.fr (jjmeric)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 23:39:14 +0200
Subject: pyw program not displaying unicode characters properly
References: <MPG.2ae50ce060f7e130989681@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2178.1350235875.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<MPG.2ae5305c2cd0f29989682@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2180.1350249596.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <MPG.2ae54f71a6093098989683@news.free.fr>

In article <mailman.2180.1350249596.27098.python-list at python.org>, 
ian.g.kelly at gmail.com says...
> 
> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 1:36 PM, jjmeric <jjmeric at free.fr> wrote:
> > Is there some sort of defaut font, or is there in Python or Python for
> > Windows any ini file where the font used can be seen, eventually changed
> > to a more appropriate one with all the required glyphs (like Lucida Sans
> > Unicode has).
> 
> No, this is up to the program and the GUI framework it uses.  Do you
> have any idea which one that would be (e.g. Tkinter, wxPython, PyQT,
> etc.)?

Thanks Ian
I have no idea, but - thanks to you - I now have an interesting question 
to ask back to the team who works on this in Russia... more later !



From cs at zip.com.au  Sun Oct 14 17:54:02 2012
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 08:54:02 +1100
Subject: trouble with nested closures: one of my variables is missing...
In-Reply-To: <CAMZYqRRyUp5oWW3Ap4RXes7yn_gCx-PGkJyfijsFtru-CLcEww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMZYqRRyUp5oWW3Ap4RXes7yn_gCx-PGkJyfijsFtru-CLcEww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121014215402.GA21565@cskk.homeip.net>

On 13Oct2012 22:07, Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:
| On Saturday, October 13, 2012, Cameron Simpson wrote:
| > I'm having some trouble with closures when defining a decorator.
| <snip>
| 
| > However, I can't make my make_file_property function work. I've stripped
| > the code down and it does this:
| <snip>
| 
| >   Traceback (most recent call last):
| >     File "foo.py", line 21, in <module>
| >       def f(self, foo=1):
| >     File "foo.py", line 4, in file_property
| >       return make_file_property()(func)
| >     File "foo.py", line 10, in made_file_property
| >       if attr_name is None:
| >   UnboundLocalError: local variable 'attr_name' referenced before
| > assignment
| >
| > Observe above that 'unset_object' is in locals(), but not 'attr_name'.
| > This surprises me.
| >
| > The stripped back code (missing the internals of the file property
| > watcher) looks like this:
| >
| >   import sys
| >
| >   def file_property(func):
| >     return make_file_property()(func)
| >
| >   def make_file_property(attr_name=None, unset_object=None, poll_rate=1):
| >     print >>sys.stderr, "make_file_property(attr_name=%r, unset_object=%r,
| > poll_rate=%r): locals()=%r" % (attr_name, unset_object, poll_rate,locals())
| >     def made_file_property(func):
| 
| You're missing a "nonlocal" declaration here.
| 
|       print >>sys.stderr, "made_file_property(func=%r): locals()=%r" %
| > (func, locals())
| >       if attr_name is None:
| >         attr_name = '_' + func.__name__
| 
| 
|  You assign to it, but there's no nonlocal declaration, so Python thinks
| it's a local var, hence your error.

But 'unset_object' is in locals(). Why one and not the other?
Obviously there's something about closures here I'm missing.

| Pardon my brevity and some lack of trimming; I'm on a smartphone and in a
| rush.

No worries. Thansk for the rpely.
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

A clean desk is the sign of a blank mind.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Oct 14 17:58:56 2012
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 08:58:56 +1100
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7wr4p0btr3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Zero Piraeus <schesis at gmail.com> writes:

> I'm a mostly passive subscriber to this list - my posts here over the
> years could probably be counted without having to take my socks off -
> so perhaps I have no right to comment, but I've noticed a marked
> increase in aggressive language here lately, so I'm putting my head
> above the parapet to say that I don't appreciate it.

Thanks for speaking up, Zero. You are certainly not alone in this.

?Ignore the trolls? is not helpful advice if one wants to maintain a
useful and friendly environment. If the hostile behaviour you refer to
goes unchallenged, the helpful contributors become drowned out and
eventually leave from fatigue. So ignoring trolls is not enough if we
want the friendly and useful conversations to continue.

Ignoring hostile behaviour also sends the wrong signal to newcomers and
casual observers: that this is not a community which cares about
actively upholding good standards of behaviour.

What's needed, IMO, is a difficult balance: there needs to be calm,
low-volume, but firm response to instances of hostile behaviour, making
clear by demonstration ? especially to the people only observing the
discussion ? that such hostility is unwanted and not to be tolerated in
our community.

This is difficult to achieve, though, because if *lots* of people do it,
the thread turns into a dogpile that is also unhelpful, and usually
departs from civil and rational discussion quickly. All of this turns
away more good people (again, often people who otherwise weeren't
involved in the particular discussion), so is counter-productive.

So my request is: Be selective, and be calm.


Don't respond deep in an existing exchange, especially one where many
others have already responded to that person. Be selective and only
respond when yours will be one of the first in the thread. (And that's
not a mandate to have a quick trigger :-)

Don't keep responding in a series of exchanges; it makes your messages
difficult for newcomers to tell apart from the voluminous noise of the
troll.

When responding to a troll, don't be inflammatory yourself ? that is
*exactly* what they seek, a continuation and escalation of the conflict.

Point out exactly what you think they're doing wrong, simply and calmly,
and don't go on at length. Keep the innocent reader in mind, don't care
too much about the troll reading your response.

To those who feel the need to ?fight? the trolls: thank you for caring
enough about the Python community to try to defend it. But I'm concerned
that you tend to pour fuel on the flames yourself, and I hope you can
work to avoid becoming the monster you fight.

> And, yes, I know bringing it up could be construed as stoking the
> flames ... but, well, "silence = acquiescence" and all that.

Agreed. Thanks again.

-- 
 \        ?Intellectual property is to the 21st century what the slave |
  `\                              trade was to the 16th.? ?David Mertz |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From d at davea.name  Sun Oct 14 18:38:35 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 18:38:35 -0400
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
In-Reply-To: <roy-275D3A.08482414102012@news.panix.com>
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2124.1350146902.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5f18f5d1-1442-4a10-922c-783dc6ddf657@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2132.1350153223.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507a3365$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<roy-275D3A.08482414102012@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <507B3EEB.1000801@davea.name>

On 10/14/2012 08:48 AM, Roy Smith wrote:
> In article <507a3365$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d at news.astraweb.com>,
>  Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>
>> Remember using PEEK and POKE commands with BASIC back in 
>> 1978? Pretty much impossible in Python. 
> But, trivial to implement as an extension :-)
PEEK and POKE were intended to be used with memory mapped devices. 
Simplest example is the 6502 chip, which had no I/O bus -- it was all
memory mapped.  Want to change baud rate?  poke a byte somewhere.

These days, the only device I can think of that's usually memory mapped
is the video.  And few programs talk to it that way.

Now, INP and OUT (or various similar names) were for doing port I/o. 
But I suspect that modern systems aren't going to let you do much of
that either.

-- 

DaveA



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Oct 14 19:40:58 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 00:40:58 +0100
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
In-Reply-To: <507B3EEB.1000801@davea.name>
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2124.1350146902.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5f18f5d1-1442-4a10-922c-783dc6ddf657@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2132.1350153223.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507a3365$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<roy-275D3A.08482414102012@news.panix.com>
	<507B3EEB.1000801@davea.name>
Message-ID: <507B4D8A.6050903@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-14 23:38, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 10/14/2012 08:48 AM, Roy Smith wrote:
>> In article <507a3365$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d at news.astraweb.com>,
>>  Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Remember using PEEK and POKE commands with BASIC back in
>>> 1978? Pretty much impossible in Python.
>> But, trivial to implement as an extension :-)
> PEEK and POKE were intended to be used with memory mapped devices.
> Simplest example is the 6502 chip, which had no I/O bus -- it was all
> memory mapped.  Want to change baud rate?  poke a byte somewhere.
>
> These days, the only device I can think of that's usually memory mapped
> is the video.  And few programs talk to it that way.
>
> Now, INP and OUT (or various similar names) were for doing port I/o.
> But I suspect that modern systems aren't going to let you do much of
> that either.
>
It depends on the CPU. Some have specialised instructions for I/O,
others don't.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 14 20:11:38 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 17:11:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<k5cm20$j0p$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAN8CLgkLKFiiYLVMWc4xAe_GwS+PuPL7VbPXpchtjzOnngBRtw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qUvPrcRLx1XhR+wjaV8kBP6C09CrnEqni8x8HhLMmd0Dw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN8CLgm5zQN9mOOMDCMcCkoahW14qDa581nB8WDtBN3KcaGHyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2170.1350193165.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <97ad591e-42f1-48a5-9ee9-a3570b309bc3@v19g2000pbt.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 14, 3:39?pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not a know it all, but when attacked personally I defend myself,
> and those can turn into flame wars.

I'm not wanting this to turn into another round of flames, but I do
want to highlight that there's a big difference between being asked to
moderate your language on a public list and a personal attack.

> Your plonks are irrelevant
> These things can get nasty quick.
> So if you have virgin eyes, then kill file it
> If you want it, bring it

Posturing like this doesn't help either and starts to fall into the
"aggressive language" territory this thread is concerned with.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sun Oct 14 20:32:01 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 18:32:01 -0600
Subject: trouble with nested closures: one of my variables is missing...
In-Reply-To: <20121014215402.GA21565@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <CAMZYqRRyUp5oWW3Ap4RXes7yn_gCx-PGkJyfijsFtru-CLcEww@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121014215402.GA21565@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnuEh9t=vBY_oPn=K+9UGbJ15ReO1Mh9G+WnUaV7SrO5w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
> |  You assign to it, but there's no nonlocal declaration, so Python thinks
> | it's a local var, hence your error.
>
> But 'unset_object' is in locals(). Why one and not the other?
> Obviously there's something about closures here I'm missing.

'unset_object' is in locals because it's a free variable and those are
included in locals(), and it has a value.
'attr_name' is not in locals because while it's a local variable, it
has not been assigned to yet.  It has no value and an attempt to
reference it at that point would result in an UnboundLocalError.


From cs at zip.com.au  Sun Oct 14 20:57:31 2012
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 11:57:31 +1100
Subject: Understanding http proxies
In-Reply-To: <20121013204358.6d400240@pcolivier.chezmoi.net>
References: <20121013204358.6d400240@pcolivier.chezmoi.net>
Message-ID: <20121015005731.GA27325@cskk.homeip.net>

On 13Oct2012 20:43, Olive <diolu at bigfoot.com> wrote:
| I am trying to understand how to build an http proxy server in python,
| and I have found the following example:
| http://www.oki-osk.jp/esc/python/proxy/
| 
| But I do not have found an exact description of what exactly a proxy
| server is suppose to do (all references gice only the basic principe of
| proxy that I know). In the following model
| 
| Client <-> Proxy <-> Server
| 
| it seems when I read the code above that the proxy acts mostly as an
| orinary server with respect to the client except that it is supposed to
| receive the full URL instead of just the path. Am I right? Is there any
| documentation on what an http proxy is supposed to implement.

As mentioned elsewhere, in HTTP 1.0 you get a full URL in the opening
line.

In HTTP 1.1 you get the path component in the opening line and the host
part in the Host: header of the request.

Have a read of RFC2616 (which defines HTTP 1.0):

  http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616

It has sections on proxies, too, outlining which they must do beyond
what a plain HTTP server must do (not much, but a few things, and there
are proxy-specific authentication fields available too):

  Proxy Servers
  http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616#section-8.1.3

  Proxy Authenticate
  http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616#section-14.33

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

There's two kinds of climbers...smart ones, and dead ones.      - Don Whillans


From cs at zip.com.au  Sun Oct 14 21:08:40 2012
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 12:08:40 +1100
Subject: trouble with nested closures: one of my variables is missing...
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnuEh9t=vBY_oPn=K+9UGbJ15ReO1Mh9G+WnUaV7SrO5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALwzidnuEh9t=vBY_oPn=K+9UGbJ15ReO1Mh9G+WnUaV7SrO5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121015010840.GA2907@cskk.homeip.net>

On 14Oct2012 18:32, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
| On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
| > |  You assign to it, but there's no nonlocal declaration, so Python thinks
| > | it's a local var, hence your error.
| >
| > But 'unset_object' is in locals(). Why one and not the other?
| > Obviously there's something about closures here I'm missing.
| 
| 'unset_object' is in locals because it's a free variable and those are
| included in locals(), and it has a value.
|
| 'attr_name' is not in locals because while it's a local variable, it
| has not been assigned to yet.  It has no value and an attempt to
| reference it at that point would result in an UnboundLocalError.

Can you elaborate a bit on that? The only place in my code that
unset_object is set is as a default parameter in make_file_property
(snippet):

  def make_file_property(attr_name=None, unset_object=None, poll_rate=1):
    print >>sys.stderr, "make_file_property(attr_name=%r, unset_object=%r, poll_rate=%r): locals()=%r" % (attr_name, unset_object, poll_rate,locals())
    def made_file_property(func):
      print >>sys.stderr, "made_file_property(func=%r): locals()=%r" % (func, locals())
      if attr_name is None:
        attr_name = '_' + func.__name__

and attr_name is set there also.

Is attr_name omitted from locals() in made_file_property _because_ I
have an assignment statement?

If that's the case, should I be doing this (using distinct names for the
closure variable and the function local variable):

  def make_file_property(attr_name=None, unset_object=None, poll_rate=1):
    print >>sys.stderr, "make_file_property(attr_name=%r, unset_object=%r, poll_rate=%r): locals()=%r" % (attr_name, unset_object, poll_rate,locals())
    def made_file_property(func):
      print >>sys.stderr, "made_file_property(func=%r): locals()=%r" % (func, locals())
      if attr_name is None:
        my_attr_name = '_' + func.__name__
      else:
        my_attr_name = attr_name
      lock_name = my_attr_name + '_lock'
      def getprop(self):
        with getattr(self, lock_name):
          pass
        return getattr(self, my_attr_name, unset_object)

i.e. deliberately _not_ assigning to attr_name as as to _avoid_ masking
the outer attr_name from the inner locals()?

BTW, doing that works. Is that The True Path for this situation?

If so, I think I now understand what's going on: Python has inspected
the inner function and not placed the outer 'attr_name' into locals()
_because_ the inner function seems to have its own local attr_name
in use, which should not be pre-tromped.

-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

Nothing is so smiple that it can't get screwed up.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sun Oct 14 21:27:24 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 19:27:24 -0600
Subject: trouble with nested closures: one of my variables is missing...
In-Reply-To: <20121015010840.GA2907@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <CALwzidnuEh9t=vBY_oPn=K+9UGbJ15ReO1Mh9G+WnUaV7SrO5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121015010840.GA2907@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnLyvNuneWH0ifGP-ob2iagqbsduqZVtPqfHsAn1QJymQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
> On 14Oct2012 18:32, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> | 'attr_name' is not in locals because while it's a local variable, it
> | has not been assigned to yet.  It has no value and an attempt to
> | reference it at that point would result in an UnboundLocalError.
>
> Can you elaborate a bit on that? The only place in my code that
> unset_object is set is as a default parameter in make_file_property
> (snippet):
>
>   def make_file_property(attr_name=None, unset_object=None, poll_rate=1):
>     print >>sys.stderr, "make_file_property(attr_name=%r, unset_object=%r, poll_rate=%r): locals()=%r" % (attr_name, unset_object, poll_rate,locals())
>     def made_file_property(func):
>       print >>sys.stderr, "made_file_property(func=%r): locals()=%r" % (func, locals())
>       if attr_name is None:
>         attr_name = '_' + func.__name__
>
> and attr_name is set there also.
>
> Is attr_name omitted from locals() in made_file_property _because_ I
> have an assignment statement?

Yes.  Syntactically, a variable is treated as local to a function if
it is assigned to somewhere in that function and there is no explicit
global or nonlocal declaration.

> If that's the case, should I be doing this (using distinct names for the
> closure variable and the function local variable):
>
>   def make_file_property(attr_name=None, unset_object=None, poll_rate=1):
>     print >>sys.stderr, "make_file_property(attr_name=%r, unset_object=%r, poll_rate=%r): locals()=%r" % (attr_name, unset_object, poll_rate,locals())
>     def made_file_property(func):
>       print >>sys.stderr, "made_file_property(func=%r): locals()=%r" % (func, locals())
>       if attr_name is None:
>         my_attr_name = '_' + func.__name__
>       else:
>         my_attr_name = attr_name
>       lock_name = my_attr_name + '_lock'
>       def getprop(self):
>         with getattr(self, lock_name):
>           pass
>         return getattr(self, my_attr_name, unset_object)
>
> i.e. deliberately _not_ assigning to attr_name as as to _avoid_ masking
> the outer attr_name from the inner locals()?
>
> BTW, doing that works. Is that The True Path for this situation?

That's a perfectly good way to do it as long as you don't want to
actually change the value of the outer attr_name.  If you did, then
you would either declare the variable as nonlocal (Python 3.x only) or
use a container (e.g. a 1-element list), which would allow you to
modify the contents of the container without actually assigning to the
variable.

> If so, I think I now understand what's going on: Python has inspected
> the inner function and not placed the outer 'attr_name' into locals()
> _because_ the inner function seems to have its own local attr_name
> in use, which should not be pre-tromped.

Exactly right.


From cs at zip.com.au  Sun Oct 14 21:39:18 2012
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 12:39:18 +1100
Subject: trouble with nested closures: one of my variables is missing...
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnLyvNuneWH0ifGP-ob2iagqbsduqZVtPqfHsAn1QJymQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALwzidnLyvNuneWH0ifGP-ob2iagqbsduqZVtPqfHsAn1QJymQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121015013918.GA5360@cskk.homeip.net>

On 14Oct2012 19:27, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
| On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
| > Is attr_name omitted from locals() in made_file_property _because_ I
| > have an assignment statement?
| 
| Yes.  Syntactically, a variable is treated as local to a function if
| it is assigned to somewhere in that function and there is no explicit
| global or nonlocal declaration.

Aha. Good.

| > If that's the case, should I be doing this (using distinct names for the
| > closure variable and the function local variable):
| >
| >   def make_file_property(attr_name=None, unset_object=None, poll_rate=1):
[...]
| >       if attr_name is None:
| >         my_attr_name = '_' + func.__name__
| >       else:
| >         my_attr_name = attr_name
[...]
| > i.e. deliberately _not_ assigning to attr_name as as to _avoid_ masking
| > the outer attr_name from the inner locals()?
| >
| > BTW, doing that works. Is that The True Path for this situation?
| 
| That's a perfectly good way to do it as long as you don't want to
| actually change the value of the outer attr_name.

Well, I don't need to - using a distinct local variable will do the job.  I
just hadn't realised I needed the extra level of naming.

| If you did, then
| you would either declare the variable as nonlocal (Python 3.x only)

... which is why I couldn't find such in the 2.7.3 doco ...

| or
| use a container (e.g. a 1-element list), which would allow you to
| modify the contents of the container without actually assigning to the
| variable.

Ah. Yeah, tacky; I've done that kind of thing in the past on occasion but
using a distinct local name is much cleaner here, and probably usually.

| > If so, I think I now understand what's going on: Python has inspected
| > the inner function and not placed the outer 'attr_name' into locals()
| > _because_ the inner function seems to have its own local attr_name
| > in use, which should not be pre-tromped.
| 
| Exactly right.

Thanks for the explaination. Now I know a New Thing.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

"Vy can't ve chust climb?"  - John Salathe


From pythonusernw at gmail.com  Sun Oct 14 21:47:21 2012
From: pythonusernw at gmail.com (pythonusernw at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 18:47:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Can't run any script without it failing due to calling tkinter for no
	reason
Message-ID: <2bc334bc-6b2c-45f2-94ed-5933c196f47a@googlegroups.com>

Hello All,


I'm running python 3.2 on Freebsd 9.0 Release and I must've screwed up my environment somehow, because now I can't run any script without it failing and throwing:
** IDLE can't import Tkinter.  Your Python may not be configured for Tk. **

Yet none of my scripts use tkinter nor call that module. They're simple network scraping scripts. I use pydev and eclipse and must've fat fingered something that screwed up my python environment, but I haven't the slightest clue on how to fix it. I can run my scripts in idle no problem, but I've built them as command line apps. I've tried uninstalling python 3 and reinstalling it to no avail. What did I do, and how can I fix it?

Thanks,
Adam


From schesis at gmail.com  Sun Oct 14 21:50:30 2012
From: schesis at gmail.com (Zero Piraeus)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 21:50:30 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <7wr4p0btr3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<7wr4p0btr3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CANaSqUe7XM1zDsERX-iJMxma8Ox58e=6Tkm5VMRptmNQaTXqMQ@mail.gmail.com>

:

On 14 October 2012 17:58, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> What's needed, IMO, is a difficult balance: there needs to be calm,
> low-volume, but firm response to instances of hostile behaviour, making
> clear by demonstration ? especially to the people only observing the
> discussion ? that such hostility is unwanted and not to be tolerated in
> our community.

Yep. I also think such responses are more effective coming from people
who already have some weight[1] around here (which was part of the
reason I was hesitant to bring it up myself). Good to see a few names
I'd put in that bracket appear in this thread :-)

 -[]z.

[1] "Who are you calling fat?" replies in 3, 2 ...


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Sun Oct 14 22:18:12 2012
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 19:18:12 -0700
Subject: Can't run any script without it failing due to calling tkinter
	for no reason
In-Reply-To: <2bc334bc-6b2c-45f2-94ed-5933c196f47a@googlegroups.com>
References: <2bc334bc-6b2c-45f2-94ed-5933c196f47a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAMuTYXh1WeJWpX+fpNz5qm57yp3wXqcpzwfgTceTnAvpUhO_rA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 6:47 PM,  <pythonusernw at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello All,
>
>
> I'm running python 3.2 on Freebsd 9.0 Release and I must've screwed up my environment somehow, because now I can't run any script without it failing and throwing:
> ** IDLE can't import Tkinter.  Your Python may not be configured for Tk. **
>
> Yet none of my scripts use tkinter nor call that module. They're simple network scraping scripts. I use pydev and eclipse and must've fat fingered something that screwed up my python environment, but I haven't the slightest clue on how to fix it. I can run my scripts in idle no problem, but I've built them as command line apps. I've tried uninstalling python 3 and reinstalling it to no avail. What did I do, and how can I fix it?
>
> Thanks,
> Adam
> --

IDLE uses Tkinter. If you don't have Tk installed, just run the
scripts from the terminal or pick a different IDE.


From torriem at gmail.com  Sun Oct 14 22:40:26 2012
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 20:40:26 -0600
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <20121013114646.1f09d311da2aa95d31066fe5@gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121013114646.1f09d311da2aa95d31066fe5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <507B779A.8010904@gmail.com>

On 10/13/2012 09:46 AM, Etienne Robillard wrote:
> OT. you obviously has no clue what agressive behavior mean. :-)
> 
> So please continue with the passive tone saying nothing relevant 
> and login to facebook.

There's a saying in English.  Hit pigeons flutter.  I have not been
impressed with your last few posts.  In fact your last couple of posts
have been irrelevant and unhelpful to say the least.  As you are looking
for a maintainer to take over your django add-on project, such an
attitude is not going to attract developers to take over your baby.
Some of this could be the language barrier, but really such posturing
isn't necessary.


From pythonusernw at gmail.com  Sun Oct 14 22:48:04 2012
From: pythonusernw at gmail.com (Adam G)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 19:48:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Can't run any script without it failing due to calling tkinter
	for no reason
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2193.1350267563.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <2bc334bc-6b2c-45f2-94ed-5933c196f47a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2193.1350267563.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6309d1f9-5aa4-4168-864b-ec09edacde15@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, October 14, 2012 7:19:24 PM UTC-7, Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 6:47 PM,  <pythonusernw at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hello All,
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > I'm running python 3.2 on Freebsd 9.0 Release and I must've screwed up my environment somehow, because now I can't run any script without it failing and throwing:
> 
> > ** IDLE can't import Tkinter.  Your Python may not be configured for Tk. **
> 
> >
> 
> > Yet none of my scripts use tkinter nor call that module. They're simple network scraping scripts. I use pydev and eclipse and must've fat fingered something that screwed up my python environment, but I haven't the slightest clue on how to fix it. I can run my scripts in idle no problem, but I've built them as command line apps. I've tried uninstalling python 3 and reinstalling it to no avail. What did I do, and how can I fix it?
> 
> >
> 
> > Thanks,
> 
> > Adam
> 
> > --
> 
> 
> 
> IDLE uses Tkinter. If you don't have Tk installed, just run the
> 
> scripts from the terminal or pick a different IDE.



Hi Ben,


Your reply instantly triggered my aha moment and I figured it out. I had an import to idlelib in one of my modules dependencies from an eclipse auto-import. I feel foolish for not seeing it sooner. I use eclipse and pydev and use a module to do all the heavy network code for my front end command line scripts. In that module I used a function variable called host where eclipse, oh so helpfully, gave me the option of resolving an import I never asked for by automatically importing some module from idlelib. It was from idlelib import host as HOST or something to that effect. Damn eclipse does that to me from time to time and it happens so fast I don't even see what it does. Thanks for the reply and helping me see my erroneous ways.

Cheers,
Adam


From pythonusernw at gmail.com  Sun Oct 14 22:48:04 2012
From: pythonusernw at gmail.com (Adam G)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 19:48:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Can't run any script without it failing due to calling tkinter
	for no reason
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2193.1350267563.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <2bc334bc-6b2c-45f2-94ed-5933c196f47a@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2193.1350267563.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6309d1f9-5aa4-4168-864b-ec09edacde15@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, October 14, 2012 7:19:24 PM UTC-7, Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 6:47 PM,  <pythonusernw at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hello All,
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > I'm running python 3.2 on Freebsd 9.0 Release and I must've screwed up my environment somehow, because now I can't run any script without it failing and throwing:
> 
> > ** IDLE can't import Tkinter.  Your Python may not be configured for Tk. **
> 
> >
> 
> > Yet none of my scripts use tkinter nor call that module. They're simple network scraping scripts. I use pydev and eclipse and must've fat fingered something that screwed up my python environment, but I haven't the slightest clue on how to fix it. I can run my scripts in idle no problem, but I've built them as command line apps. I've tried uninstalling python 3 and reinstalling it to no avail. What did I do, and how can I fix it?
> 
> >
> 
> > Thanks,
> 
> > Adam
> 
> > --
> 
> 
> 
> IDLE uses Tkinter. If you don't have Tk installed, just run the
> 
> scripts from the terminal or pick a different IDE.



Hi Ben,


Your reply instantly triggered my aha moment and I figured it out. I had an import to idlelib in one of my modules dependencies from an eclipse auto-import. I feel foolish for not seeing it sooner. I use eclipse and pydev and use a module to do all the heavy network code for my front end command line scripts. In that module I used a function variable called host where eclipse, oh so helpfully, gave me the option of resolving an import I never asked for by automatically importing some module from idlelib. It was from idlelib import host as HOST or something to that effect. Damn eclipse does that to me from time to time and it happens so fast I don't even see what it does. Thanks for the reply and helping me see my erroneous ways.

Cheers,
Adam


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 14 23:22:07 2012
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 20:22:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>

On 10/14/2012 03:58 PM, Ben Finney wrote:> Zero Piraeus <schesis at gmail.com> writes:
>[...]
> What's needed, IMO, is a difficult balance: there needs to be calm,
> low-volume, but firm response to instances of hostile behaviour, making
> clear by demonstration ? especially to the people only observing the
> discussion ? that such hostility is unwanted and not to be tolerated in
> our community.
>[...]

The problem with this is that while there may sometimes be a 
weak consensus, different people have different ideas about
what is "wrong".  Thus when a member of this esteemed group
was recently attacked as racist, for punning another member's
name when responding somewhat heatedly, I, according to your 
view, should have jumped in to point out unfair accusations 
of racism are not only wrong, but hurt the cause of anti-racism 
by devaluing such charges when they are legitimate.

No, what you propose will only reduce the signal to noise ratio
and increase the amount of off-topic arguments.

The old tried-and-true advise is still the best: don't feed the 
trolls.  Experience with three decades of mailing lists and usenet 
has shown that most of them give up and go somewhere else when 
they don't get a response. 

Of course this does not apply when you are the one attacked (or 
perceive you are) -- in that case your advice for a low-key
factual response is quite appropriate.  (And then drop it.)

> To those who feel the need to ?fight? the trolls: thank you for caring
> enough about the Python community to try to defend it. But I'm concerned
> that you tend to pour fuel on the flames yourself, and I hope you can
> work to avoid becoming the monster you fight.
> 
>> And, yes, I know bringing it up could be construed as stoking the
>> flames ... but, well, "silence = acquiescence" and all that.
> 
> Agreed. Thanks again.

No.  Silence != acquiescence as a few minutes of thought will
show.  The fact that it is often repeated does not make it 
true.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 00:36:24 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 21:36:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 15, 1:22?pm, ru... at yahoo.com wrote:
> Thus when a member of this esteemed group
> was recently attacked as racist, for punning another member's
> name when responding somewhat heatedly,

Again, there is a difference between "attacking" someone "as racist"
and *criticising* their *comments* as *possibly* racist. When the
person whose name was being punned said that they themselves were
unsure whether it was intended as a racial attack, then the behaviour
was worth commenting on.

If anything, I initially *joked* about it as a means of trying to
point out the issue in a non-offensive way. If there was any
"attacking" going on, it was in the criticised party's responses.

> hurt the cause of anti-racism

My response had nothing to do with "agendas" and "causes" and
everything to do with wanting to keep specific forms of discourse off
this list. I had identical issues with the same person's use of
"bitch" and "whore"; I cannot begin to fathom how stating that they're
unacceptable to use here is in any way damaging to the anti-sexism
position, or an attack on the person saying them.


From alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr  Mon Oct 15 01:42:20 2012
From: alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (Alain Ketterlin)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 07:42:20 +0200
Subject: pyw program not displaying unicode characters properly
References: <MPG.2ae50ce060f7e130989681@news.free.fr>
	<87626dc6oq.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
	<507b280e$0$6512$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87y5j8b8ar.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:

> On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 19:19:33 +0200, Alain Ketterlin wrote:
>
>> Usenet has no attachments. 
>
> *snarfle*
>
> You almost owed me a new monitor. I nearly sprayed my breakfast all over 
> it. [...]

I owe you nothing, and you can do whatever you want with your breakfast.

> "Usenet has no attachments" -- that's like saying that the Web has no 
> advertisements. Maybe the websites you visit have no advertisements, but 
> there's a *vast* (and often disturbing) part of the WWW that has 
> advertisements, some sites are nothing but advertisements.[...]

I really don't know what you are ranting about here. See Dennis' response.

Any idea about a reasonable complete unicode font on Windows? /That/
would be helpful.

-- Alain.


From moogyd at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Oct 15 01:48:54 2012
From: moogyd at yahoo.co.uk (moogyd at yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 22:48:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Basic JSON question: Do I really need the quotes
In-Reply-To: <cbd2f125-38ca-4f46-9077-95de0cf7ea6f@googlegroups.com>
References: <cbd2f125-38ca-4f46-9077-95de0cf7ea6f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cd8fbd9e-9b0f-41ba-848c-ceaa4b7565d0@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, 12 October 2012 16:09:14 UTC+2, (unknown)  wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I need to define some configuration in a file that will be manually created.
> 
> Internally, the data will be stored as a dict, which contains various properties related to a design
> 
> e.g. Design Name, dependencies, lists of files (and associated libraries).
> 
> json seemed a quick an easy way of achieving this
> 
> Anyway, in simple terms my question - if I know everything is a string, how can I omit the quotation marks?
> 
> 
> 
> i.e. I can do
> 
> 
> 
> >>> json.loads('{"mykey":["data0", "data1"]}')
> 
> {u'mykey': [u'data0', u'data1']}
> 
> 
> 
> But I would like to do
> 
> >>> json.loads('{mykey:[data0, data1]}')
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is that I don't want to make users have to type redundant characters.
> 
> Is it possible?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Steven

Hi,
Thanks to everyone for the responses. I'll look at YAML and ConfigParser.
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Oct 15 03:35:34 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 15 Oct 2012 07:35:34 GMT
Subject: pyw program not displaying unicode characters properly
References: <MPG.2ae50ce060f7e130989681@news.free.fr>
	<87626dc6oq.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
	<507b280e$0$6512$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2191.1350265325.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <507bbcc6$0$29884$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 21:41:51 -0400, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> On 14 Oct 2012 21:01:03 GMT, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
> 
>> "Usenet has no attachments" -- that's like saying that the Web has no
>> advertisements. Maybe the websites you visit have no advertisements,
>> but there's a *vast* (and often disturbing) part of the WWW that has
>> advertisements, some sites are nothing but advertisements.
>> 
>> And so it is with Usenet, there is a vast (and often disturbing) area
>> of Usenet containing attachments, and often nothing but attachments.
>> The vast volume of all these attachments are such that it is getting
>> hard to find ISPs that provide free access to binary newsgroups, but
>> some still do, and dedicated for-fee Usenet providers do too.
> 
> 	Classically, NNTP did not have "attachments" as seen in MIME 
email.
> 
> 	It did have "binaries" in some encoding -- UUE, BASE64, or some
> newer format, but these encodings were the raw body of the post(s), not
> something "attached" as a separate file along with a text body.


"A rose by any other name..."


A mere implementation detail. The intention is identical: to attach a non-
text file to a message that otherwise would be text. And the interface is 
close enough as makes no difference.

You can even have a text part and binaries parts in the same news posting.



-- 
Steven


From diolu.remove_this_part at bigfoot.com  Mon Oct 15 03:53:46 2012
From: diolu.remove_this_part at bigfoot.com (Olive)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:53:46 +0200
Subject: Understanding http proxies
References: <20121013204358.6d400240@pcolivier.chezmoi.net>
Message-ID: <20121015095346.54d68aa5@pcolivier.chezmoi.net>

Thank you for all yours answers. There are very usefull!

Olive


From michaeldavid1234567 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 04:22:03 2012
From: michaeldavid1234567 at gmail.com (michaeldavid1234567 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 01:22:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python stand alone Android Apps:)
Message-ID: <6af5d2a9-49ce-4e8c-a51a-7f1d71c74cf3@googlegroups.com>

Hi, Cote here, and I'm very pleased to announce that I've ported ALL my sl4a apps to eclipse apk, it embeds with the python interpreter, no need to install anything but the app off google play!

I have completed:

A) Android Eye (Computer Vision), that takes a picture and tells you what it is (Object Recognition):
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.androideye.androideye

B) See Say (OCR) Picture to Speach, for the visually impaired.  You can literally have it read a book to you:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.seesay.seesay

C) See Say Translate (ocr that takes a page in any language, as a picture, then reads it back in english:) :
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.seesay.seesaytranslate

D) Standardized IQ Test (based on the Stanfod-Binet Image/Problem Solving Section:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.iqtest.iqtest

E) AuraScope, a Chinese horoscope app with the added feature that it calibrates one's Aura (via image white content):
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.aurahoroscope.aurahoroscope

F) Picture Drinks, an implementation of the Object Recognition, specific to your liquor bottle:) :
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.picturedrinksnew.picturedrinksnew

G) Pocket Translator, a simple translator where you enter a language and get the results in English, good tool for traveling:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pockettranslator.english2any

I had originally learned python, and build the basics of the app, and was happy to see that sl4a existed, and went into free versions of the apps that required the download of the interpreter separately.  After 6 months of non-stop programming (obsession;), I realized that ad support with the free versions wasn't feasible, as I haven't got a handle on integrating AdMob sdk.. plus I realized to charge a premium, having to download the interpreter separately scares most buyers away (even at $0.99!)  So I put the time in to incorporate the embedded interpreter.  I recommend doing this, though I had to relearn eclipse all over again (I'm not much of a java nut yet), in the end we have a complete product, and I'm sure any python programmer would agree, now with Python, we can do ANYTHING!

Awesome Sauce;)

M. Dave Cote B.Sc., B.A.Sc.


From tinnews at isbd.co.uk  Mon Oct 15 07:23:45 2012
From: tinnews at isbd.co.uk (tinnews at isbd.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 12:23:45 +0100
Subject: What's the tidy/elegant way to protect this against null/empty
	parameters?
Message-ID: <1b8tk9-un9.ln1@chris.zbmc.eu>

I want to fix an error in some code I have installed, however I don't
really want to just bodge it.

The function producing the error is:-

    def get_text(self, idx):               # override !
        node = self.items[idx]

        a= [
            ", ".join(node.tags),
            node.comment,
            node.folderName,
            cd2rd(node.date),
            node.name,
            '[' + self.rating_stars[node.rating] + ']'
            ] [self.select]

        return a


The error occurs when node[] (or at least its members) turn out to be
empty, you get a Traceback that ends with:-

  File "/usr/lib/jbrout/jbrout/listview.py", line 608, in draw_cell layout.set_text(self.get_text(thumbnail_num))
  File "/usr/lib/jbrout/jbrout.py", line 325, in get_text ", ".join(node.tags),
  TypeError: sequence item 0: expected string, NoneType found

Now its *probably* something higher up the tree causing the problem
(it's only one particular image in 20 thousand or so that breaks
things) but I really want to just get things working.  So, what's the
neatest way to protect the get_text() method from empty data?


-- 
Chris Green


From roy at panix.com  Mon Oct 15 07:45:45 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 07:45:45 -0400
Subject: pyw program not displaying unicode characters properly
References: <MPG.2ae50ce060f7e130989681@news.free.fr>
	<87626dc6oq.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
	<507b280e$0$6512$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2191.1350265325.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-B6203E.07454515102012@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2191.1350265325.27098.python-list at python.org>,
 Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> 	Classically, NNTP did not have "attachments" as seen in MIME email.

NNTP (Network News Transport Protocol) and SMTP (Simple Mail Transfer 
Protocol) are both just ways of shipping around messages.  Neither one 
really knows about attachments.  In both mail and news, "attachments" 
are a higher-level concept encoded inside the message content and 
managed by the various user applications.

> 	It did have "binaries" in some encoding -- UUE, BASE64, or some
> newer format, but these encodings were the raw body of the post(s), not
> something "attached" as a separate file along with a text body.

This is all true of both mail and news, with only trivial changes of the 
formats and names of the encodings.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Oct 15 07:49:41 2012
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 04:49:41 -0700
Subject: What's the tidy/elegant way to protect this against null/empty
	parameters?
References: <1b8tk9-un9.ln1@chris.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <7xhapwc5uy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

tinnews at isbd.co.uk writes:
> I want to fix an error in some code I have installed, however I don't
> really want to just bodge it. ...
> Now its *probably* something higher up the tree causing the problem
> (it's only one particular image in 20 thousand or so that breaks
> things) but I really want to just get things working.  

That means you do really want to just bodge it, doesn't it?  (I'm
reading "bodge" as something like "kludge" but maybe it means something
different.)

> So, what's the neatest way to protect the get_text() method from empty
> data?

I'd say the use of None as a picture is already a code smell: figure out
where it is coming from, and fix it.  Or, if you want to just bodge it
(by checking for None and returning the empty string or something)),
then try it and see if it helps.  I'm assuming this is something
noncritical that you're running on your own computer for convenience.  I
wouldn't ship code to a customer without a more careful fix.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Oct 15 07:58:24 2012
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 04:58:24 -0700
Subject: What's the tidy/elegant way to protect this against null/empty
	parameters?
In-Reply-To: <1b8tk9-un9.ln1@chris.zbmc.eu>
References: <1b8tk9-un9.ln1@chris.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRTauoyN=D+ZQuS5H+72CX1mKvP0E1tMZS2Yn8n-OSw=cg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 4:23 AM,  <tinnews at isbd.co.uk> wrote:
> I want to fix an error in some code I have installed, however I don't
> really want to just bodge it.

"bodge". Well, I learned a new word this morning!

> The function producing the error is:-
>
>     def get_text(self, idx):               # override !
>         node = self.items[idx]
>
>         a= [
>             ", ".join(node.tags),
>             node.comment,
>             node.folderName,
>             cd2rd(node.date),
>             node.name,
>             '[' + self.rating_stars[node.rating] + ']'
>             ] [self.select]
>
>         return a
>
>
> The error occurs when node[] (or at least its members) turn out to be
> empty,

To be precise: when node.tags contains one or more `None`s (Python's
equivalent of what other languages call "null" or "nil").
That's what the traceback is saying.

> you get a Traceback that ends with:-
>
>   File "/usr/lib/jbrout/jbrout/listview.py", line 608, in draw_cell layout.set_text(self.get_text(thumbnail_num))

Ah, so this is apparently regarding https://code.google.com/p/jbrout/
. Would have been nice not to have had to search and then only locate
it indirectly. Something to consider next time you write in...
Make sure you report your bug upstream!

>   File "/usr/lib/jbrout/jbrout.py", line 325, in get_text ", ".join(node.tags),
>   TypeError: sequence item 0: expected string, NoneType found
>
> Now its *probably* something higher up the tree causing the problem
> (it's only one particular image in 20 thousand or so that breaks
> things) but I really want to just get things working.  So, what's the
> neatest way to protect the get_text() method from empty data?

Filter out the `None`s with a generator expression:
    ", ".join(tag for tag in node.tags if tag is not None),

Cheers,
Chris


From roy at panix.com  Mon Oct 15 08:00:11 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 08:00:11 -0400
Subject: What's the tidy/elegant way to protect this against null/empty
	parameters?
References: <1b8tk9-un9.ln1@chris.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <roy-60916D.08001115102012@news.panix.com>

In article <1b8tk9-un9.ln1 at chris.zbmc.eu>, tinnews at isbd.co.uk wrote:

> The function producing the error is:-
> 
>     def get_text(self, idx):               # override !
>         node = self.items[idx]
> 
>         a= [
>             ", ".join(node.tags),
>             node.comment,
>             node.folderName,
>             cd2rd(node.date),
>             node.name,
>             '[' + self.rating_stars[node.rating] + ']'
>             ] [self.select]
> 
>         return a
> 
> 
> The error occurs when node[] (or at least its members) turn out to be
> empty, you get a Traceback that ends with:-
> 
>   File "/usr/lib/jbrout/jbrout/listview.py", line 608, in draw_cell 
>   layout.set_text(self.get_text(thumbnail_num))
>   File "/usr/lib/jbrout/jbrout.py", line 325, in get_text ", 
>   ".join(node.tags),
>   TypeError: sequence item 0: expected string, NoneType found
> 
> Now its *probably* something higher up the tree causing the problem
> (it's only one particular image in 20 thousand or so that breaks
> things) but I really want to just get things working.  So, what's the
> neatest way to protect the get_text() method from empty data?

Well, you don't describe what get_text() is supposed to return  First, 
you build a list of what I'm guessing are all strings, then you index 
into it and return one of the values.  So, I'm guessing get_text() is 
supposed to return a string.

At a low level, you can certainly fix that by testing to see if 
self.items[idx] returns what you're expecting (an instance of Node?) and 
returning an empty string if it's not:

>     def get_text(self, idx):               # override !
>         node = self.items[idx]
>         if not node:
>             return ""
> 
>         a= [
>             ", ".join(node.tags),
>             node.comment,
>             node.folderName,
>             cd2rd(node.date),
>             node.name,
>             '[' + self.rating_stars[node.rating] + ']'
>             ] [self.select]
> 
>         return a

Whether that makes sense in your program, I have no idea.  What does it 
mean for node to be empty?  Is this a normal occurrence?  If so, then 
your code needs to deal with properly (the suggest above being just one 
possible way).

Or, is it "impossible" for node to be empty?  In that case, that fact 
that it *is* empty is a bug, and the above suggestion will just hide the 
bug for one more level and make it that much harder to figure out what's 
really going on.  What you might really want to do is sprinkle your code 
with "assert node" statements.  This will force your program to crash 
and burn the first time node is empty, which might help you figure out 
why it is.


From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 08:12:31 2012
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 08:12:31 -0400
Subject: simple string format question
Message-ID: <k5guje$ui$1@ger.gmane.org>

Is there a way to specify to format I want a floating point written with no more 
than e.g., 2 digits after the decimal?  I tried {:.2f}, but then I get all 
floats written with 2 digits, even if they are 0:

2.35 << yes, that's what I want
2.00 << no, I want just 2 or 2.



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Oct 15 08:29:59 2012
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 05:29:59 -0700
Subject: simple string format question
In-Reply-To: <k5guje$ui$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <k5guje$ui$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRQN3yEkyf=Dd=tPRxti+ztQ4WaQZZWgkAB8pDW+VjHEFQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 5:12 AM, Neal Becker <ndbecker2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there a way to specify to format I want a floating point written with no more
> than e.g., 2 digits after the decimal?  I tried {:.2f}, but then I get all
> floats written with 2 digits, even if they are 0:
>
> 2.35 << yes, that's what I want
> 2.00 << no, I want just 2 or 2.

Not that I can find. Seems you'll have to implement it yourself.


In the event that your project uses Django, there happens to be a
template tag for this (pass it -2 in your case):
https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/templates/builtins/?from=olddocs#floatformat

Cheers,
Chris


From mkamlesh at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 08:50:40 2012
From: mkamlesh at gmail.com (Kamlesh Mutha)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 18:20:40 +0530
Subject: simple string format question
In-Reply-To: <CAMZYqRQN3yEkyf=Dd=tPRxti+ztQ4WaQZZWgkAB8pDW+VjHEFQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <k5guje$ui$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAMZYqRQN3yEkyf=Dd=tPRxti+ztQ4WaQZZWgkAB8pDW+VjHEFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADg3d1OJojoaGWStXFYvGbxmSd241vhSQFEqLTc0MwFWSNQEzQ@mail.gmail.com>

There doesn't seem to be any direct way to achieve this.

Maybe you can do something like this:

import math

x = 3.05

if math.modf(x)[0] != 0.0: print x


Cheers,
-Kamlesh




On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 5:59 PM, Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 5:12 AM, Neal Becker <ndbecker2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Is there a way to specify to format I want a floating point written with
> no more
> > than e.g., 2 digits after the decimal?  I tried {:.2f}, but then I get
> all
> > floats written with 2 digits, even if they are 0:
> >
> > 2.35 << yes, that's what I want
> > 2.00 << no, I want just 2 or 2.
>
> Not that I can find. Seems you'll have to implement it yourself.
>
>
> In the event that your project uses Django, there happens to be a
> template tag for this (pass it -2 in your case):
>
> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/templates/builtins/?from=olddocs#floatformat
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Faith waiting in the heart of a seed promises a miracle of life which it
can not prove!
-Ravindranath Tagore
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From adnothing at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 08:58:09 2012
From: adnothing at gmail.com (Adrien)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 14:58:09 +0200
Subject: simple string format question
In-Reply-To: <k5guje$ui$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <k5guje$ui$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <507C0861.5090808@gmail.com>

Le 15/10/2012 14:12, Neal Becker a ?crit :
> Is there a way to specify to format I want a floating point written with no more
> than e.g., 2 digits after the decimal?  I tried {:.2f}, but then I get all
> floats written with 2 digits, even if they are 0:
>
> 2.35 << yes, that's what I want
> 2.00 << no, I want just 2 or 2.

Maybe you're looking for "{:.3g}"

print "{:.3g}".format(2)
# '2'

print "{:.3g}".format(2.00)
# '2'

print "{:.3g}".format(2.35)
# '2.35'

print "{:.3g}".format(2.356)  # this rounds up
# '2.36'

Cheers,

-- Adrien



From d at davea.name  Mon Oct 15 09:02:58 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:02:58 -0400
Subject: simple string format question
In-Reply-To: <CAMZYqRQN3yEkyf=Dd=tPRxti+ztQ4WaQZZWgkAB8pDW+VjHEFQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <k5guje$ui$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAMZYqRQN3yEkyf=Dd=tPRxti+ztQ4WaQZZWgkAB8pDW+VjHEFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <507C0982.4070609@davea.name>

On 10/15/2012 08:29 AM, Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 5:12 AM, Neal Becker <ndbecker2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Is there a way to specify to format I want a floating point written with no more
>> than e.g., 2 digits after the decimal?  I tried {:.2f}, but then I get all
>> floats written with 2 digits, even if they are 0:
>>
>> 2.35 << yes, that's what I want
>> 2.00 << no, I want just 2 or 2.
> Not that I can find. Seems you'll have to implement it yourself.

To do it yourself, probably best to use a temp string value, created by
format "{: f}".  (Notice the space before the f, to reserve space for
the sign)  Then, slice that value to length 4 .  Finally, in your actual
format, use :5s for a format.  This should add the blanks for padding,
so other columns still line up.

>
> In the event that your project uses Django, there happens to be a
> template tag for this (pass it -2 in your case):
> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/templates/builtins/?from=olddocs#floatformat
>
> Cheers,
> Chris


-- 

DaveA



From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Mon Oct 15 09:05:01 2012
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 15:05:01 +0200
Subject: portable unicode literals
Message-ID: <t8etk9-5h9.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Hi!

I need a little nudge in the right direction, as I'm misunderstanding 
something concerning string literals in Python 2 and 3. In Python 2.7, 
b'' and '' are byte strings, while u'' is a unicode literal. In Python 
3.2, b'' is a byte string and '' is a unicode literal, while u'' is a 
syntax error.

This actually came as a surprise to me, I assumed that using b'' I could 
portably create a byte string (which is true) and using u'' I could 
portably create a unicode string (which is not true). This feature would 
help porting code between both versions. While this is a state I can 
live with, I wonder what the rationale for this is.

!puzzled thanks

Uli


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Oct 15 09:26:01 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 15 Oct 2012 13:26:01 GMT
Subject: portable unicode literals
References: <t8etk9-5h9.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <507c0ee8$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 15:05:01 +0200, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> I need a little nudge in the right direction, as I'm misunderstanding
> something concerning string literals in Python 2 and 3. In Python 2.7,
> b'' and '' are byte strings, while u'' is a unicode literal. In Python
> 3.2, b'' is a byte string and '' is a unicode literal, while u'' is a
> syntax error.
> 
> This actually came as a surprise to me, I assumed that using b'' I could
> portably create a byte string (which is true) and using u'' I could
> portably create a unicode string (which is not true). This feature would
> help porting code between both versions. While this is a state I can
> live with, I wonder what the rationale for this is.

It was a mistake that is corrected in Python 3.3.

You can now use u'' to create Unicode literals in both 2.x and 3.3 or 
better. This is a feature only designed for porting code though: you 
shouldn't use u'' in new code not intended for 2.x.


-- 
Steven


From d at davea.name  Mon Oct 15 09:32:22 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:32:22 -0400
Subject: portable unicode literals
In-Reply-To: <t8etk9-5h9.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <t8etk9-5h9.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <507C1066.4030009@davea.name>

On 10/15/2012 09:05 AM, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I need a little nudge in the right direction, as I'm misunderstanding
> something concerning string literals in Python 2 and 3. In Python 2.7,
> b'' and '' are byte strings, while u'' is a unicode literal. In Python
> 3.2, b'' is a byte string and '' is a unicode literal, while u'' is a
> syntax error.
>
> This actually came as a surprise to me, I assumed that using b'' I
> could portably create a byte string (which is true) and using u'' I
> could portably create a unicode string (which is not true). This
> feature would help porting code between both versions. While this is a
> state I can live with, I wonder what the rationale for this is.
>
> !puzzled thanks
>
> Uli

Python 3.3 added that syntax, for easier porting.  You can now use
u"xyz" for a unicode string in both 2.x and 3.3

-- 

DaveA



From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 09:33:33 2012
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 06:33:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What's the tidy/elegant way to protect this against null/empty
	parameters?
In-Reply-To: <1b8tk9-un9.ln1@chris.zbmc.eu>
References: <1b8tk9-un9.ln1@chris.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <016f5055-84ad-4d37-9812-de3ce972026d@googlegroups.com>

> I want to fix an error in some code I have installed, ...
Apart from all the reasons why it's bad (see the Python Zen #10). One way to do it is:
    return [i or '' for i in a]


From andriy.kornatskyy at live.com  Mon Oct 15 09:39:30 2012
From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com (Andriy Kornatskyy)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 16:39:30 +0300
Subject: Fastest web framework
In-Reply-To: <DUB117-W80EE2285B5E415AA14B5B9919F0@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB117-W80EE2285B5E415AA14B5B9919F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <DUB117-W12440C57B904C7C66F4A20091710@phx.gbl>


How fast python web frameworks reverse urls?

While routing is a mapping of incoming request to a handler, url reverse function is designed to build urls for those handlers. A web page may have a number of urls from few dozen to hundreds... all related to your web site (e.g. links between related pages, tag cloud, most viewed posts, etc).

Here is a benchmark for various web frameworks (django, flask, pyramid, tornado and wheezy.web):

http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/10/python-web-reverse-urls-benchmark.html

Benchmark is executed in isolated environment using CPython 2.7. Source is here:

https://bitbucket.org/akorn/helloworld/src/tip/03-urls

Comments or suggestions are welcome.
?
Thanks.

Andriy Kornatskyy


----------------------------------------
> From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Fastest web framework
> Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 12:19:16 +0300
>
>
> I have run recently a benchmark of a trivial 'hello world' application for various python web frameworks (bottle, django, flask, pyramid, web.py, wheezy.web) hosted in uWSGI/cpython2.7 and gunicorn/pypy1.9... you might find it interesting:
>
> http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/09/python-fastest-web-framework.html
>
> Comments or suggestions are welcome.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Andriy Kornatskyy
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
 		 	   		  

From sscc at mweb.co.za  Mon Oct 15 09:41:40 2012
From: sscc at mweb.co.za (Alex Strickland)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 15:41:40 +0200
Subject: portable unicode literals
In-Reply-To: <t8etk9-5h9.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <t8etk9-5h9.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <507C1294.3080609@mweb.co.za>

On 2012/10/15 03:05 PM, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:

> This actually came as a surprise to me, I assumed that using b'' I could
> portably create a byte string (which is true) and using u'' I could
> portably create a unicode string (which is not true). This feature would
> help porting code between both versions. While this is a state I can
> live with, I wonder what the rationale for this is.
>
> !puzzled thanks

u'' is legal in 3.3 again.

-- 
Regards
Alex


From bnrj.rudra at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 09:45:32 2012
From: bnrj.rudra at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?=E0=A6=B0=E0=A7=81=E0=A6=A6=E0=A7=8D=E0=A6=B0_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E0=A6=AC=E0=A7=8D=E0=A6=AF=E0=A6=BE=E0=A6=A3=E0=A6=BE?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E0=A6=B0=E0=A7=8D=E0=A6=9C=E0=A7=80?=)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 14:45:32 +0100
Subject: MySQL with Python
Message-ID: <1350308732.2373.8.camel@roddur>

Dear friends,
I am starting a project of creating a database using mySQL(my first
project with database). 
I went to my institute library and find that, all books are managing
"mySQL with perl and php"

I am new to python itself and gradually loving it. I mostly use it as an
alternative of shell-script. Since learning a new language for every new
project is not possible(its self assigned project, generally in free
time), can I do a "mySQL with python?"

if yes, can you kindly suggest a book/reference on this?



From silideba at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 09:55:38 2012
From: silideba at gmail.com (Debashish Saha)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:25:38 +0530
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
Message-ID: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>

how to insert random error in a programming?


From anurag.chourasia at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 09:57:42 2012
From: anurag.chourasia at gmail.com (Anurag Chourasia)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:57:42 -0400
Subject: MySQL with Python
In-Reply-To: <1350308732.2373.8.camel@roddur>
References: <1350308732.2373.8.camel@roddur>
Message-ID: <CANFgmFDJVdvDsUj0npO2E1FjxiLBRmoHmOi5xqc5OO6zc2oUJQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yes you can. There are libraries available in python to make this happen.

Read this for a starter

http://dev.mysql.com/usingmysql/python/

Regards,
Anurag
On Oct 15, 2012 10:53 AM, "????? ??????????" <bnrj.rudra at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear friends,
> I am starting a project of creating a database using mySQL(my first
> project with database).
> I went to my institute library and find that, all books are managing
> "mySQL with perl and php"
>
> I am new to python itself and gradually loving it. I mostly use it as an
> alternative of shell-script. Since learning a new language for every new
> project is not possible(its self assigned project, generally in free
> time), can I do a "mySQL with python?"
>
> if yes, can you kindly suggest a book/reference on this?
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 10:01:58 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 01:01:58 +1100
Subject: MySQL with Python
In-Reply-To: <1350308732.2373.8.camel@roddur>
References: <1350308732.2373.8.camel@roddur>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpPttB==nYGiL3kiyc8e780zfie6ef0GZMmdHKcSQPesw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 12:45 AM, ????? ?????????? <bnrj.rudra at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear friends,
> I am starting a project of creating a database using mySQL(my first
> project with database).
> I went to my institute library and find that, all books are managing
> "mySQL with perl and php"
>
> I am new to python itself and gradually loving it. I mostly use it as an
> alternative of shell-script. Since learning a new language for every new
> project is not possible(its self assigned project, generally in free
> time), can I do a "mySQL with python?"
>
> if yes, can you kindly suggest a book/reference on this?

It's definitely possible. As far as I know, though, there's no inbuilt
support, so you'll need an add-on module. What platform are you
running on? On Debian Linux, for instance, you can simply "apt-get
install python-mysqldb".

But you may wish to consider using PostgreSQL instead. It's a
generally better database engine than MySQL, and is equally well
supported:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/PostgreSQL

Actually, to be quite honest, I'm surprised there's no module in the
Python stdlib for either of the above. Possibly because there are
several competing options.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 10:04:49 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 01:04:49 +1100
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
In-Reply-To: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpK1edyzOdORPyv8M_WCzgqzcJwRJG2pTb2j-d85ANEUA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 12:55 AM, Debashish Saha <silideba at gmail.com> wrote:
> how to insert random error in a programming?

how to ask question good in forumming?
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

But here's one way to do it:

raise random.choice((OSError,IOError,ZeroDivisionError,UnicodeDecodeError,AssertionError))()

ChrisA


From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 10:05:12 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 07:05:12 -0700
Subject: MySQL with Python
In-Reply-To: <1350308732.2373.8.camel@roddur>
References: <1350308732.2373.8.camel@roddur>
Message-ID: <507C1818.2000905@gmail.com>

On 12-10-15 06:45 AM, ????? ?????????? wrote:
> if yes, can you kindly suggest a book/reference on this?
>

There are a few different ways to connect to MySQL, two of which are:

For reference on connecting and querying MySQL through mysql-python, 
take a read through http://mysql-python.sourceforge.net/MySQLdb.html.

Another solution is to use SQLAlchemy (http://www.sqlalchemy.org/). The 
ORM abstracts a lot of the tedious SQL queries out for you and allows 
you to concentrate more on your application's logic.

-- 
Demian Brecht
@demianbrecht
http://demianbrecht.github.com


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Oct 15 10:08:20 2012
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 16:08:20 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
In-Reply-To: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <640797238.260551.1350310100806.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>

----- Original Message -----
> how to insert random error in a programming?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 

Here's an example

from random

raise Except(randome.randinteger(0,10,'error']): return



From d at davea.name  Mon Oct 15 10:21:34 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 10:21:34 -0400
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
In-Reply-To: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <507C1BEE.1000809@davea.name>

On 10/15/2012 09:55 AM, Debashish Saha wrote:
> how to insert random error in a programming?

I don't see how this phrase makes any sense without a lot more context. 
If I add the words "I'd like to know" in front of the phrase, and
"session."  at the end (and add the word "a" as appropriate), the best
answer I'd come up with is to deprive the programmer of a lot of sleep
the night before.

If I just take the words in the phrase, and try to dream up the possible
ways they could be meant...

For example, perhaps you have a series of data, taken from some
experiment, and you want to "break" the data, to make it appear more
random (to fit the model less well).  You might just want to iterate
over the sample twice, once to calculate the average, min, and max. 
Then you might add to each sample a random signed value with a
distribution based on those three values.

Or you might be a teacher with a "perfect program," and you want to
(programmatically) change it slightly, and see how long it takes your
students to find the introduced error.  This seems to me to be an
extremely hard problem in the general case, though pretty easy for a
human.  Problem is that most random text changes will presumably cause
compile errors, or "not defined".  And those are trivial to find and fix
for an experienced programmer, though first year students might need the
practice.

Or you might be trying to get your module to simulate various errors,
randomly chosen.  In which case, see Chris's or jean-Michel's response.

Or you might be trying to cause other applications to crash, because
you're pretending to be a virus.

Or a dozen other things.

You get the random module by    import random.   But beyond that, we'd
have to understand your use case.  Start by mentioning Python version
and OS. Then give a brief summary of your level of experience in Python
and in other langugages.  Then list the description on the homework
assignment.

-- 

DaveA



From bnrj.rudra at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 10:47:45 2012
From: bnrj.rudra at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?=E0=A6=B0=E0=A7=81=E0=A6=A6=E0=A7=8D=E0=A6=B0_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E0=A6=AC=E0=A7=8D=E0=A6=AF=E0=A6=BE=E0=A6=A3=E0=A6=BE?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E0=A6=B0=E0=A7=8D=E0=A6=9C=E0=A7=80?=)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 15:47:45 +0100
Subject: MySQL with Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2207.1350309721.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <1350308732.2373.8.camel@roddur>
	<mailman.2207.1350309721.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1350312465.1928.4.camel@roddur>

On Tue, 2012-10-16 at 01:01 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
> But you may wish to consider using PostgreSQL instead. 
Thanks, as I am  very much new in database thing, I am not very aware of
the options I have.
But in my library, I did not found any thing on PostgreSQL. 
Though, I will google its support as well, can you kindly let me know if
this is well documented. I can see there mailing list is quite active.
So that may not be a problem though.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 10:54:32 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 01:54:32 +1100
Subject: MySQL with Python
In-Reply-To: <1350312465.1928.4.camel@roddur>
References: <1350308732.2373.8.camel@roddur>
	<mailman.2207.1350309721.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1350312465.1928.4.camel@roddur>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq-1q4otiVzXGfhSqAvV4T7d8CWEX72_tgpPV=RncAGTw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 1:47 AM, ????? ?????????? <bnrj.rudra at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 2012-10-16 at 01:01 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> But you may wish to consider using PostgreSQL instead.
> Thanks, as I am  very much new in database thing, I am not very aware of
> the options I have.
> But in my library, I did not found any thing on PostgreSQL.
> Though, I will google its support as well, can you kindly let me know if
> this is well documented. I can see there mailing list is quite active.
> So that may not be a problem though.

Postgres itself: http://www.postgresql.org/

I posted a link to some Python-PGSQL libraries in my previous post.

ChrisA


From anurag.chourasia at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 10:55:41 2012
From: anurag.chourasia at gmail.com (Anurag Chourasia)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 10:55:41 -0400
Subject: MySQL with Python
In-Reply-To: <1350312465.1928.4.camel@roddur>
References: <1350308732.2373.8.camel@roddur>
	<mailman.2207.1350309721.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1350312465.1928.4.camel@roddur>
Message-ID: <CANFgmFBpdsuuW+8hr4cLj_vXH6EheObt2b_iem9x3_2EkDL6BA@mail.gmail.com>

Don't worry about what book you have (or don't have) in your
Library......And let this not dictate your technology stack.

PostgreSQL is one of the popular choice and you will never be short of
documentation...Just Google and you will find lot of helpful tutorials...

Regards,
Anurag

On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 10:47 AM, ????? ?????????? <bnrj.rudra at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Tue, 2012-10-16 at 01:01 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > But you may wish to consider using PostgreSQL instead.
> Thanks, as I am  very much new in database thing, I am not very aware of
> the options I have.
> But in my library, I did not found any thing on PostgreSQL.
> Though, I will google its support as well, can you kindly let me know if
> this is well documented. I can see there mailing list is quite active.
> So that may not be a problem though.
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Oct 15 11:06:14 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 16:06:14 +0100
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
In-Reply-To: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5h8oe$pij$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 15/10/2012 14:55, Debashish Saha wrote:
> how to insert random error in a programming?
>

Just use some of my code, it's far more random than that suggested by 
others who've replied to your query.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 11:14:45 2012
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 11:14:45 -0400
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
References: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5h993$7ff$1@ger.gmane.org>

Debashish Saha wrote:

> how to insert random error in a programming?

Apparently, giving it to Microsoft will work.



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Oct 15 11:45:43 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 11:45:43 -0400
Subject: What's the tidy/elegant way to protect this against null/empty
	parameters?
In-Reply-To: <1b8tk9-un9.ln1@chris.zbmc.eu>
References: <1b8tk9-un9.ln1@chris.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <k5hb39$rdn$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/15/2012 7:23 AM, tinnews at isbd.co.uk wrote:
> I want to fix an error in some code I have installed, however I don't
> really want to just bodge it.
>
> The function producing the error is:-
>
>      def get_text(self, idx):               # override !
>          node = self.items[idx]
>
>          a= [
>              ", ".join(node.tags),
>              node.comment,
>              node.folderName,
>              cd2rd(node.date),
>              node.name,
>              '[' + self.rating_stars[node.rating] + ']'
>              ] [self.select]
>
>          return a
>
>
> The error occurs when node[] (or at least its members) turn out to be
> empty,

This is not the problem.

 > you get a Traceback that ends with:-
>
>    File "/usr/lib/jbrout/jbrout/listview.py", line 608, in draw_cell layout.set_text(self.get_text(thumbnail_num))
>    File "/usr/lib/jbrout/jbrout.py", line 325, in get_text ", ".join(node.tags),
>    TypeError: sequence item 0: expected string, NoneType found

The specific problem is that node.tags is supposed to be a sequence of 
strings and somehow one instead has None as the first, and probably last 
item. This was likely intended to indicate an empty list, but the way to 
do that is to have a empty list, which would have worked just fine. In 
other words, the likely problem is that node.tags is *not* an empty 
sequence when it should be.

 >>> ','.join([None])
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<pyshell#9>", line 1, in <module>
     ','.join([None])
TypeError: sequence item 0: expected str instance, NoneType found
 >>> ','.join([])
''

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Mon Oct 15 12:00:15 2012
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:00:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Exception Messages
Message-ID: <8b5cb95f-424b-45a8-b19b-42f92f531a75@googlegroups.com>

How do you get Exceptions to print messages? I have an exception defined like this

class PvCamError(Exception):
    def __init__(self, msg):
        self.msg = msg

But when the error is raised I get this:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\ipython-0.12.1-py2.7.egg\IPython\core\interactiveshell.py", line 2538, in run_code
    exec code_obj in self.user_global_ns, self.user_ns
  File "<ipython-input-1-fb48da797583>", line 1, in <module>
    import S477Test
  File "U:\workspace\camera\src\S477Test.py", line 13, in <module>
    camera.getSerialNum()
  File "U:\workspace\camera\src\S477.py", line 131, in getSerialNum
    num = self.pl.getParamValue(pvcamConstants.PARAM_HEAD_SER_NUM_ALPHA)
  File "U:\workspace\camera\src\pvcam.py", line 261, in getParamValue
    raise PvCamError("Unhandled Type: {0}".format(attype))
PvCamError

Why wasn't the message printed out?


From gordon at panix.com  Mon Oct 15 12:00:43 2012
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 16:00:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
References: <mailman.2205.1350309347.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k5hbvb$ek7$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <mailman.2205.1350309347.27098.python-list at python.org> Debashish Saha <silideba at gmail.com> writes:

> how to insert random error in a programming?

Open the program source file and replace the Nth character with a random
character.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Oct 15 12:17:22 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 17:17:22 +0100
Subject: Exception Messages
In-Reply-To: <8b5cb95f-424b-45a8-b19b-42f92f531a75@googlegroups.com>
References: <8b5cb95f-424b-45a8-b19b-42f92f531a75@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <507C3712.2080403@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-15 17:00, Wanderer wrote:
> How do you get Exceptions to print messages? I have an exception defined like this
>
> class PvCamError(Exception):
>      def __init__(self, msg):
>          self.msg = msg
>
> But when the error is raised I get this:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\ipython-0.12.1-py2.7.egg\IPython\core\interactiveshell.py", line 2538, in run_code
>      exec code_obj in self.user_global_ns, self.user_ns
>    File "<ipython-input-1-fb48da797583>", line 1, in <module>
>      import S477Test
>    File "U:\workspace\camera\src\S477Test.py", line 13, in <module>
>      camera.getSerialNum()
>    File "U:\workspace\camera\src\S477.py", line 131, in getSerialNum
>      num = self.pl.getParamValue(pvcamConstants.PARAM_HEAD_SER_NUM_ALPHA)
>    File "U:\workspace\camera\src\pvcam.py", line 261, in getParamValue
>      raise PvCamError("Unhandled Type: {0}".format(attype))
> PvCamError
>
> Why wasn't the message printed out?
>
You didn't add a __str__ method:

class PvCamError(Exception):
     def __init__(self, msg):
         self.msg = msg
     def __str__(self):
         return self.msg



From gordon at panix.com  Mon Oct 15 12:22:04 2012
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 16:22:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Exception Messages
References: <8b5cb95f-424b-45a8-b19b-42f92f531a75@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2217.1350317845.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k5hd7c$emf$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <mailman.2217.1350317845.27098.python-list at python.org> MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> writes:

> > Why wasn't the message printed out?
>
> You didn't add a __str__ method:

> class PvCamError(Exception):
>      def __init__(self, msg):
>          self.msg = msg
>      def __str__(self):
>          return self.msg

Wouldn't PvCamError inherit __str__() from Exception?

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Oct 15 12:34:50 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 17:34:50 +0100
Subject: Exception Messages
In-Reply-To: <k5hd7c$emf$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <8b5cb95f-424b-45a8-b19b-42f92f531a75@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2217.1350317845.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5hd7c$emf$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <507C3B2A.4050506@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-15 17:22, John Gordon wrote:
> In <mailman.2217.1350317845.27098.python-list at python.org> MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> writes:
>
>> > Why wasn't the message printed out?
>>
>> You didn't add a __str__ method:
>
>> class PvCamError(Exception):
>>      def __init__(self, msg):
>>          self.msg = msg
>>      def __str__(self):
>>          return self.msg
>
> Wouldn't PvCamError inherit __str__() from Exception?
>
Yes, but you've put the message in msg, and Exception doesn't have that
attribute.

An alternative approach would be:

class PvCamError(Exception):
     pass



From d at davea.name  Mon Oct 15 12:42:48 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 12:42:48 -0400
Subject: Exception Messages
In-Reply-To: <507C3B2A.4050506@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <8b5cb95f-424b-45a8-b19b-42f92f531a75@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2217.1350317845.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5hd7c$emf$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<507C3B2A.4050506@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <507C3D08.9040907@davea.name>

On 10/15/2012 12:34 PM, MRAB wrote:
> On 2012-10-15 17:22, John Gordon wrote:
>> In <mailman.2217.1350317845.27098.python-list at python.org> MRAB
>> <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> writes:
>>
>>> > Why wasn't the message printed out?
>>>
>>> You didn't add a __str__ method:
>>
>>> class PvCamError(Exception):
>>>      def __init__(self, msg):
>>>          self.msg = msg
>>>      def __str__(self):
>>>          return self.msg
>>
>> Wouldn't PvCamError inherit __str__() from Exception?
>>
> Yes, but you've put the message in msg, and Exception doesn't have that
> attribute.
>
> An alternative approach would be:
>
> class PvCamError(Exception):
>     pass
>

Wouldn't another approach be for this __init__() method to call the
base-class __init__() method with whatever data it needs?



-- 

DaveA



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Oct 15 12:46:58 2012
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 18:46:58 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
In-Reply-To: <507C1BEE.1000809@davea.name>
Message-ID: <1281200207.366255.1350319618639.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>

----- Original Message -----

[snip a huge list of advices example and insights]

> Then list the description on the homework
> assignment.
> 
> --
> 
> DaveA

Like the youngsters write:

"/bow"

JM


From storchaka at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 13:11:45 2012
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 20:11:45 +0300
Subject: portable unicode literals
In-Reply-To: <t8etk9-5h9.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <t8etk9-5h9.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <k5hg4n$cru$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 15.10.12 16:05, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> I need a little nudge in the right direction, as I'm misunderstanding
> something concerning string literals in Python 2 and 3. In Python 2.7,
> b'' and '' are byte strings, while u'' is a unicode literal. In Python
> 3.2, b'' is a byte string and '' is a unicode literal, while u'' is a
> syntax error.
>
> This actually came as a surprise to me, I assumed that using b'' I could
> portably create a byte string (which is true) and using u'' I could
> portably create a unicode string (which is not true). This feature would
> help porting code between both versions. While this is a state I can
> live with, I wonder what the rationale for this is.

   from __future__ import unicode_literals

And now you can portable use b'' for a byte string and '' for a unicode 
string. When you will drop Python 2 support then just remove import from 
__future__.




From storchaka at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 13:18:10 2012
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 20:18:10 +0300
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpK1edyzOdORPyv8M_WCzgqzcJwRJG2pTb2j-d85ANEUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmpK1edyzOdORPyv8M_WCzgqzcJwRJG2pTb2j-d85ANEUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5hggg$cru$2@ger.gmane.org>

On 15.10.12 17:04, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 12:55 AM, Debashish Saha <silideba at gmail.com> wrote:
>> how to insert random error in a programming?
> 
> how to ask question good in forumming?
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
> 
> But here's one way to do it:
> 
> raise random.choice((OSError,IOError,ZeroDivisionError,UnicodeDecodeError,AssertionError))()

I think OP means something like

programming[:0] = random.choice((OSError,IOError,ZeroDivisionError,UnicodeDecodeError,AssertionError))()




From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Mon Oct 15 13:18:51 2012
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 10:18:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Exception Messages
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2218.1350318893.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <8b5cb95f-424b-45a8-b19b-42f92f531a75@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2217.1350317845.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5hd7c$emf$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<mailman.2218.1350318893.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <96889d3a-1217-4743-93b5-f8dd5686eebd@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 15, 2012 12:34:53 PM UTC-4, MRAB wrote:

> 
> Yes, but you've put the message in msg, and Exception doesn't have that
> 
> attribute.
> 

That's weird. I got this Exception class definition idea from this post by Guido van Rostrum, Where he gives this main function to look like

import sys
import getopt

class Usage(Exception):
    def __init__(self, msg):
        self.msg = msg

def main(argv=None):
    if argv is None:
        argv = sys.argv
    try:
        try:
            opts, args = getopt.getopt(argv[1:], "h", ["help"])
        except getopt.error, msg:
             raise Usage(msg)
        # more code, unchanged
    except Usage, err:
        print >>sys.stderr, err.msg
        print >>sys.stderr, "for help use --help"
        return 2

if __name__ == "__main__":
    sys.exit(main())




http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=4829




From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Mon Oct 15 13:18:51 2012
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 10:18:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Exception Messages
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2218.1350318893.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <8b5cb95f-424b-45a8-b19b-42f92f531a75@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2217.1350317845.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5hd7c$emf$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<mailman.2218.1350318893.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <96889d3a-1217-4743-93b5-f8dd5686eebd@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 15, 2012 12:34:53 PM UTC-4, MRAB wrote:

> 
> Yes, but you've put the message in msg, and Exception doesn't have that
> 
> attribute.
> 

That's weird. I got this Exception class definition idea from this post by Guido van Rostrum, Where he gives this main function to look like

import sys
import getopt

class Usage(Exception):
    def __init__(self, msg):
        self.msg = msg

def main(argv=None):
    if argv is None:
        argv = sys.argv
    try:
        try:
            opts, args = getopt.getopt(argv[1:], "h", ["help"])
        except getopt.error, msg:
             raise Usage(msg)
        # more code, unchanged
    except Usage, err:
        print >>sys.stderr, err.msg
        print >>sys.stderr, "for help use --help"
        return 2

if __name__ == "__main__":
    sys.exit(main())




http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=4829




From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Mon Oct 15 13:20:00 2012
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 10:20:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Exception Messages
In-Reply-To: <96889d3a-1217-4743-93b5-f8dd5686eebd@googlegroups.com>
References: <8b5cb95f-424b-45a8-b19b-42f92f531a75@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2217.1350317845.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5hd7c$emf$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<mailman.2218.1350318893.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<96889d3a-1217-4743-93b5-f8dd5686eebd@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8945f3ba-7acc-402b-b3f5-43caa2e2cde9@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 15, 2012 1:18:52 PM UTC-4, Wanderer wrote:
> On Monday, October 15, 2012 12:34:53 PM UTC-4, MRAB wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Yes, but you've put the message in msg, and Exception doesn't have that
> 
> > 
> 
> > attribute.
> 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> That's weird. I got this Exception class definition idea from this post by Guido van Rostrum, Where he gives this main function to look like
> 
> 
> 
> import sys
> 
> import getopt
> 
> 
> 
> class Usage(Exception):
> 
>     def __init__(self, msg):
> 
>         self.msg = msg
> 
> 
> 
> def main(argv=None):
> 
>     if argv is None:
> 
>         argv = sys.argv
> 
>     try:
> 
>         try:
> 
>             opts, args = getopt.getopt(argv[1:], "h", ["help"])
> 
>         except getopt.error, msg:
> 
>              raise Usage(msg)
> 
>         # more code, unchanged
> 
>     except Usage, err:
> 
>         print >>sys.stderr, err.msg
> 
>         print >>sys.stderr, "for help use --help"
> 
>         return 2
> 
> 
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
> 
>     sys.exit(main())
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=4829

Oops. I meant Guido van Rossum


From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Mon Oct 15 13:20:00 2012
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 10:20:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Exception Messages
In-Reply-To: <96889d3a-1217-4743-93b5-f8dd5686eebd@googlegroups.com>
References: <8b5cb95f-424b-45a8-b19b-42f92f531a75@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2217.1350317845.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5hd7c$emf$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<mailman.2218.1350318893.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<96889d3a-1217-4743-93b5-f8dd5686eebd@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8945f3ba-7acc-402b-b3f5-43caa2e2cde9@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 15, 2012 1:18:52 PM UTC-4, Wanderer wrote:
> On Monday, October 15, 2012 12:34:53 PM UTC-4, MRAB wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Yes, but you've put the message in msg, and Exception doesn't have that
> 
> > 
> 
> > attribute.
> 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> That's weird. I got this Exception class definition idea from this post by Guido van Rostrum, Where he gives this main function to look like
> 
> 
> 
> import sys
> 
> import getopt
> 
> 
> 
> class Usage(Exception):
> 
>     def __init__(self, msg):
> 
>         self.msg = msg
> 
> 
> 
> def main(argv=None):
> 
>     if argv is None:
> 
>         argv = sys.argv
> 
>     try:
> 
>         try:
> 
>             opts, args = getopt.getopt(argv[1:], "h", ["help"])
> 
>         except getopt.error, msg:
> 
>              raise Usage(msg)
> 
>         # more code, unchanged
> 
>     except Usage, err:
> 
>         print >>sys.stderr, err.msg
> 
>         print >>sys.stderr, "for help use --help"
> 
>         return 2
> 
> 
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
> 
>     sys.exit(main())
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=4829

Oops. I meant Guido van Rossum


From roel at roelschroeven.net  Mon Oct 15 13:29:56 2012
From: roel at roelschroeven.net (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:29:56 +0200
Subject: Feedback on my python framework I'm building.
In-Reply-To: <507B4D8A.6050903@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2116.1350137553.27098.python-list@python.org>	<4c7a82ca-de0c-4b8b-a128-9ecd1b4c8b31@googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2124.1350146902.27098.python-list@python.org>	<5f18f5d1-1442-4a10-922c-783dc6ddf657@googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2132.1350153223.27098.python-list@python.org>	<507a3365$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<roy-275D3A.08482414102012@news.panix.com>	<507B3EEB.1000801@davea.name>
	<507B4D8A.6050903@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <k5hh6j$n1a$1@ger.gmane.org>

MRAB schreef:
> On 2012-10-14 23:38, Dave Angel wrote:
>> On 10/14/2012 08:48 AM, Roy Smith wrote:
>>> In article <507a3365$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d at news.astraweb.com>,
>>>  Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Remember using PEEK and POKE commands with BASIC back in
>>>> 1978? Pretty much impossible in Python.
>>> But, trivial to implement as an extension :-)
>> PEEK and POKE were intended to be used with memory mapped devices.
>> Simplest example is the 6502 chip, which had no I/O bus -- it was all
>> memory mapped.  Want to change baud rate?  poke a byte somewhere.
>>
>> These days, the only device I can think of that's usually memory mapped
>> is the video.  And few programs talk to it that way.
>>
>> Now, INP and OUT (or various similar names) were for doing port I/o.
>> But I suspect that modern systems aren't going to let you do much of
>> that either.
>>
> It depends on the CPU. Some have specialised instructions for I/O,
> others don't.

I think Roy Smith meant that the OS on modern systems generally prevents 
direct access from user space to either memory mapped I/O or port mapped 
I/O. Embedded systems might allow direct access, but AFAIK Python 
doesn't run on those.

Best regards,
Roel

-- 
"Too often we hold fast to the cliches of our forebears. We subject all
facts to a prefabricated set of interpretations. Too often we enjoy the
comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
         -- John F Kennedy

roel at roelschroeven.net



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Oct 15 13:34:07 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 18:34:07 +0100
Subject: Exception Messages
In-Reply-To: <96889d3a-1217-4743-93b5-f8dd5686eebd@googlegroups.com>
References: <8b5cb95f-424b-45a8-b19b-42f92f531a75@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2217.1350317845.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5hd7c$emf$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<mailman.2218.1350318893.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<96889d3a-1217-4743-93b5-f8dd5686eebd@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <507C490F.4010703@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-15 18:18, Wanderer wrote:
> On Monday, October 15, 2012 12:34:53 PM UTC-4, MRAB wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes, but you've put the message in msg, and Exception doesn't have that
>>
>> attribute.
>>
>
> That's weird. I got this Exception class definition idea from this post by Guido van Rostrum, Where he gives this main function to look like
>
> import sys
> import getopt
>
> class Usage(Exception):
>      def __init__(self, msg):
>          self.msg = msg
>
> def main(argv=None):
>      if argv is None:
>          argv = sys.argv
>      try:
>          try:
>              opts, args = getopt.getopt(argv[1:], "h", ["help"])
>          except getopt.error, msg:
>               raise Usage(msg)
>          # more code, unchanged
>      except Usage, err:
>          print >>sys.stderr, err.msg
>          print >>sys.stderr, "for help use --help"
>          return 2
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>      sys.exit(main())
>
>
>
>
> http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=4829
>
>
Note how it explicitly prints err.msg.



From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Mon Oct 15 13:44:07 2012
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 10:44:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Exception Messages
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2226.1350322455.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <8b5cb95f-424b-45a8-b19b-42f92f531a75@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2217.1350317845.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5hd7c$emf$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<mailman.2218.1350318893.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<96889d3a-1217-4743-93b5-f8dd5686eebd@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2226.1350322455.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1994ef31-be75-457f-a9d5-706a8e3d6c1b@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 15, 2012 1:34:24 PM UTC-4, MRAB wrote:
> On 2012-10-15 18:18, Wanderer wrote:
> 
> > On Monday, October 15, 2012 12:34:53 PM UTC-4, MRAB wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Yes, but you've put the message in msg, and Exception doesn't have that
> 
> >>
> 
> >> attribute.
> 
> >>
> 
> >
> 
> > That's weird. I got this Exception class definition idea from this post by Guido van Rostrum, Where he gives this main function to look like
> 
> >
> 
> > import sys
> 
> > import getopt
> 
> >
> 
> > class Usage(Exception):
> 
> >      def __init__(self, msg):
> 
> >          self.msg = msg
> 
> >
> 
> > def main(argv=None):
> 
> >      if argv is None:
> 
> >          argv = sys.argv
> 
> >      try:
> 
> >          try:
> 
> >              opts, args = getopt.getopt(argv[1:], "h", ["help"])
> 
> >          except getopt.error, msg:
> 
> >               raise Usage(msg)
> 
> >          # more code, unchanged
> 
> >      except Usage, err:
> 
> >          print >>sys.stderr, err.msg
> 
> >          print >>sys.stderr, "for help use --help"
> 
> >          return 2
> 
> >
> 
> > if __name__ == "__main__":
> 
> >      sys.exit(main())
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=4829
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> Note how it explicitly prints err.msg.

Not in the raise statement. 

Adding the def __str__ made it work for me.
Thanks


From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Mon Oct 15 13:44:07 2012
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 10:44:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Exception Messages
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2226.1350322455.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <8b5cb95f-424b-45a8-b19b-42f92f531a75@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2217.1350317845.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5hd7c$emf$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<mailman.2218.1350318893.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<96889d3a-1217-4743-93b5-f8dd5686eebd@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2226.1350322455.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1994ef31-be75-457f-a9d5-706a8e3d6c1b@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 15, 2012 1:34:24 PM UTC-4, MRAB wrote:
> On 2012-10-15 18:18, Wanderer wrote:
> 
> > On Monday, October 15, 2012 12:34:53 PM UTC-4, MRAB wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Yes, but you've put the message in msg, and Exception doesn't have that
> 
> >>
> 
> >> attribute.
> 
> >>
> 
> >
> 
> > That's weird. I got this Exception class definition idea from this post by Guido van Rostrum, Where he gives this main function to look like
> 
> >
> 
> > import sys
> 
> > import getopt
> 
> >
> 
> > class Usage(Exception):
> 
> >      def __init__(self, msg):
> 
> >          self.msg = msg
> 
> >
> 
> > def main(argv=None):
> 
> >      if argv is None:
> 
> >          argv = sys.argv
> 
> >      try:
> 
> >          try:
> 
> >              opts, args = getopt.getopt(argv[1:], "h", ["help"])
> 
> >          except getopt.error, msg:
> 
> >               raise Usage(msg)
> 
> >          # more code, unchanged
> 
> >      except Usage, err:
> 
> >          print >>sys.stderr, err.msg
> 
> >          print >>sys.stderr, "for help use --help"
> 
> >          return 2
> 
> >
> 
> > if __name__ == "__main__":
> 
> >      sys.exit(main())
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=4829
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> Note how it explicitly prints err.msg.

Not in the raise statement. 

Adding the def __str__ made it work for me.
Thanks


From gherron at digipen.edu  Mon Oct 15 14:03:14 2012
From: gherron at digipen.edu (Gary Herron)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 11:03:14 -0700
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
In-Reply-To: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <507C4FE2.9070602@digipen.edu>

On 10/15/2012 06:55 AM, Debashish Saha wrote:
> how to insert random error in a programming?

Drink several beers before you start programming. :-)



-- 
Dr. Gary Herron
Department of Computer Science
DigiPen Institute of Technology
(425) 895-4418



From emile at fenx.com  Mon Oct 15 14:44:53 2012
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 11:44:53 -0700
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
In-Reply-To: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5hlgk$tpa$1@ger.gmane.org>

Debashish Saha wrote:
> how to insert random error in a programming?

Make the changes late in the day then leave for the weekend?

Emile



From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 15:05:13 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 06:05:13 +1100
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
In-Reply-To: <k5hggg$cru$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmpK1edyzOdORPyv8M_WCzgqzcJwRJG2pTb2j-d85ANEUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<k5hggg$cru$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqWsUOT+yhKpbnQUdi2OtJoKSX9uPQ87A_aHyqTrFMxXg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 4:18 AM, Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 15.10.12 17:04, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 12:55 AM, Debashish Saha <silideba at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> how to insert random error in a programming?
>>
>> how to ask question good in forumming?
>> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>>
>> But here's one way to do it:
>>
>> raise random.choice((OSError,IOError,ZeroDivisionError,UnicodeDecodeError,AssertionError))()
>
> I think OP means something like
>
> programming[:0] = random.choice((OSError,IOError,ZeroDivisionError,UnicodeDecodeError,AssertionError))()

Ah, good point. Though it's worth noting that my version will happily
raise a NameError under certain circumstances, while yours will never
insert a NameError into programming.

This is potentially very important when inserting random errors.

ChrisA


From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 15:10:46 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 20:10:46 +0100
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
In-Reply-To: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qVY3aEETMFhLn9+vTU2XZ+b3d0whzCuJqGvaJg_A+8XAA@mail.gmail.com>

On 15 October 2012 14:55, Debashish Saha <silideba at gmail.com> wrote:

> how to insert random error in a programming?
>

You could always just *write* the code with random errors from the start.
Try random code, like this:

from collections import defaultdict as ?
> def ire(?, ?=[]):
> yield [?(bool, {? and ?[0]or object(): True}) [?[0]] or [lambda: (yield
> ire(((?.append(object()), ?[0])[0], ?))), int][(?>?[:3])|(?<=?[:2])]() or
> [1]][0]
> print(list(list(ire([2, 3, 3]))[0]))


Note that being random code this does nothing other than confuse people as
to why it does what it does do even though that is nothing other than the
mentioned confusion of others into its purpose.
-------------- next part --------------
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Oct 15 15:15:30 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 15:15:30 -0400
Subject: Exception Messages
In-Reply-To: <k5hd7c$emf$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <8b5cb95f-424b-45a8-b19b-42f92f531a75@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2217.1350317845.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5hd7c$emf$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <k5hncm$gec$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/15/2012 12:22 PM, John Gordon wrote:
> In <mailman.2217.1350317845.27098.python-list at python.org> MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> writes:
>
>>> Why wasn't the message printed out?
>>
>> You didn't add a __str__ method:
>
>> class PvCamError(Exception):
>>       def __init__(self, msg):
>>           self.msg = msg
>>       def __str__(self):
>>           return self.msg
>
> Wouldn't PvCamError inherit __str__() from Exception?

Exception instances get a .args attibute set to the arguments of the 
class call and printed in the .__str__ message.

 >>> dir(Exception())
['__cause__', '__class__', '__context__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', 
'__dir__', '__doc__', '__eq__', '__format__', '__ge__', 
'__getattribute__', '__gt__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__le__', 
'__lt__', '__ne__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', 
'__repr__', '__setattr__', '__setstate__', '__sizeof__', '__str__', 
'__subclasshook__', '__suppress_context__', '__traceback__', 'args', 
'with_traceback']
 >>> Exception('abc', 1)
Exception('abc', 1)

So class MyError(Exception) will get that basic default behavior. For 
fancier printing, one needs a fancier .__str__ method ;-).

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Oct 15 15:28:46 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 20:28:46 +0100
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qVY3aEETMFhLn9+vTU2XZ+b3d0whzCuJqGvaJg_A+8XAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qVY3aEETMFhLn9+vTU2XZ+b3d0whzCuJqGvaJg_A+8XAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5ho37$mqm$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 15/10/2012 20:10, Joshua Landau wrote:
> On 15 October 2012 14:55, Debashish Saha <silideba at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> how to insert random error in a programming?
>>
>
> You could always just *write* the code with random errors from the start.
> Try random code, like this:
>
> from collections import defaultdict as ?
>> def ire(?, ?=[]):
>> yield [?(bool, {? and ?[0]or object(): True}) [?[0]] or [lambda: (yield
>> ire(((?.append(object()), ?[0])[0], ?))), int][(?>?[:3])|(?<=?[:2])]() or
>> [1]][0]
>> print(list(list(ire([2, 3, 3]))[0]))
>
>
> Note that being random code this does nothing other than confuse people as
> to why it does what it does do even though that is nothing other than the
> mentioned confusion of others into its purpose.
>
>
>

I like clearly written code like this

"
s = """Gur Mra bs Clguba, ol Gvz Crgref

Ornhgvshy vf orggre guna htyl.
Rkcyvpvg vf orggre guna vzcyvpvg.
Fvzcyr vf orggre guna pbzcyrk.
Pbzcyrk vf orggre guna pbzcyvpngrq.
Syng vf orggre guna arfgrq.
Fcnefr vf orggre guna qrafr.
Ernqnovyvgl pbhagf.
Fcrpvny pnfrf nera'g fcrpvny rabhtu gb oernx gur ehyrf.
Nygubhtu cenpgvpnyvgl orngf chevgl.
Reebef fubhyq arire cnff fvyragyl.
Hayrff rkcyvpvgyl fvyraprq.
Va gur snpr bs nzovthvgl, ershfr gur grzcgngvba gb thrff.
Gurer fubhyq or bar-- naq cersrenoyl bayl bar --boivbhf jnl gb qb vg.
Nygubhtu gung jnl znl abg or boivbhf ng svefg hayrff lbh'er Qhgpu.
Abj vf orggre guna arire.
Nygubhtu arire vf bsgra orggre guna *evtug* abj.
Vs gur vzcyrzragngvba vf uneq gb rkcynva, vg'f n onq vqrn.
Vs gur vzcyrzragngvba vf rnfl gb rkcynva, vg znl or n tbbq vqrn.
Anzrfcnprf ner bar ubaxvat terng vqrn -- yrg'f qb zber bs gubfr!"""

d = {}
for c in (65, 97):
     for i in range(26):
         d[chr(i+c)] = chr((i+13) % 26 + c)

print "".join([d.get(c, c) for c in s])
"

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From roy at panix.com  Mon Oct 15 15:44:39 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 15:44:39 -0400
Subject: MySQL with Python
References: <1350308732.2373.8.camel@roddur>
	<mailman.2233.1350328857.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-7BB219.15443915102012@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2233.1350328857.27098.python-list at python.org>,
 Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> For routine database /access/ (that is, someone has created the
> database user account that will be used), MySQLdb is the Python adapter
> to connect to the server. For using THAT, you basically need to know SQL
> (MySQL's flavor in particular), along with understanding the DB-API 2
> specification (PEP-249) with the MySQLdb documentation (which explains
> any limitations or specifics; see http://mysql-python.sourceforge.net/ )

Another possibility is to use some sort of ORM (Object Relational 
Mapper), which provides an abstraction layer on top of the raw SQL 
layer.  Two examples are SQLAlchemy (http://www.sqlalchemy.org/) and 
Django (https://www.djangoproject.com/).

A thread on Stack Overflow (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/53428) 
mentions some additional Python ORMs you might want to explore.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 15:51:29 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 06:51:29 +1100
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
In-Reply-To: <k5ho37$mqm$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qVY3aEETMFhLn9+vTU2XZ+b3d0whzCuJqGvaJg_A+8XAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<k5ho37$mqm$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqG8HbQ7_FTfqvKQ_DQrfwqgThPbuv5vav=v51aHQicdw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 6:28 AM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> I like clearly written code like this
>
> "
> d = {}
> for c in (65, 97):
>     for i in range(26):
>         d[chr(i+c)] = chr((i+13) % 26 + c)
>
> print "".join([d.get(c, c) for c in s])

Surely there's a shorter way to rot13 a piece of text? CODE GOLF!

At very least, a single cryptic expression in place of your nice clear
loops MUST be an improvement.

d = dict((chr(i+c),chr((i+13)%26+c))for i in range(26)for c in(65,97))

And with superfluous spaces removed like that, it takes 0.02
jiggawatts less power in DeLorean Python.

ChrisA


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Oct 15 15:58:53 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 20:58:53 +0100
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqG8HbQ7_FTfqvKQ_DQrfwqgThPbuv5vav=v51aHQicdw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qVY3aEETMFhLn9+vTU2XZ+b3d0whzCuJqGvaJg_A+8XAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<k5ho37$mqm$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAPTjJmqG8HbQ7_FTfqvKQ_DQrfwqgThPbuv5vav=v51aHQicdw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5hpte$6b3$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 15/10/2012 20:51, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 6:28 AM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> I like clearly written code like this
>>
>> "
>> d = {}
>> for c in (65, 97):
>>      for i in range(26):
>>          d[chr(i+c)] = chr((i+13) % 26 + c)
>>
>> print "".join([d.get(c, c) for c in s])
>
> Surely there's a shorter way to rot13 a piece of text? CODE GOLF!
>
> At very least, a single cryptic expression in place of your nice clear
> loops MUST be an improvement.
>
> d = dict((chr(i+c),chr((i+13)%26+c))for i in range(26)for c in(65,97))
>
> And with superfluous spaces removed like that, it takes 0.02
> jiggawatts less power in DeLorean Python.
>
> ChrisA
>

How dare you Sir, they're most certainly *NOT* my loops!!!

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 16:02:33 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 07:02:33 +1100
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
In-Reply-To: <k5hpte$6b3$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qVY3aEETMFhLn9+vTU2XZ+b3d0whzCuJqGvaJg_A+8XAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<k5ho37$mqm$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAPTjJmqG8HbQ7_FTfqvKQ_DQrfwqgThPbuv5vav=v51aHQicdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<k5hpte$6b3$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrmN9qK2tAn6u4wodrPuK+2_LZutwvDFpvfrLRxP7cb_A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 6:58 AM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> How dare you Sir, they're most certainly *NOT* my loops!!!

I do beg your pardon. You're not that loopy. You're differently loopy.

ChrisA


From victor.stinner at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 16:53:38 2012
From: victor.stinner at gmail.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 22:53:38 +0200
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
In-Reply-To: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMpsgwZQNHOrELnqhZDEnTJYpOn0UYPB4hAxNLDxXg2KYXux8g@mail.gmail.com>

Try fuzzing. Examples:
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/fusil/
http://peachfuzzer.com/

Victor


From newsboost at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 17:09:33 2012
From: newsboost at gmail.com (someone)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 23:09:33 +0200
Subject: numpy - 2D matrix/array - initialization like in Matlab...
Message-ID: <k5hu2e$h5i$1@dont-email.me>


See this:

==========================================================
In [5]: Dx = numpy.matrix('1 0 0; 0 0.5 -0.5; 0 -0.5 1.5')

In [6]: Dx
Out[6]:
matrix([[ 1. ,  0. ,  0. ],
         [ 0. ,  0.5, -0.5],
         [ 0. , -0.5,  1.5]])
==========================================================



Ok... So now test = 33 and instead of the value 1.5 I want to use the 
value of "test" and put it directly into the matrix (or array):

==========================================================
In [7]: test=33

In [8]: Dx = numpy.matrix('1 0 0; 0 0.5 -0.5; 0 -0.5 test')
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
NameError                                 Traceback (most recent call last)
/home/user/something/<ipython-input-8-5a43575649e1> in <module>()
----> 1 Dx = numpy.matrix('1 0 0; 0 0.5 -0.5; 0 -0.5 test')

/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/numpy/matrixlib/defmatrix.pyc in 
__new__(subtype, data, dtype, copy)
     252
     253         if isinstance(data, str):
--> 254             data = _convert_from_string(data)
     255
     256         # now convert data to an array
...... etc...
==========================================================



So obviously it doesn't understand that I want this:

==========================================================
In [21]: Dx[2,2]=test

In [22]: Dx
Out[22]:
matrix([[  1. ,   0. ,   0. ],
         [  0. ,  33. ,  -0.5],
         [  0. ,  -0.5,  33. ]])
==========================================================

Without having to manually change all the individual places using my 
variables (test is actually many variables, not just one but I think you 
should understand the problem now).


How to initialize my array directly using variables ?

It could also be that I wanted:

test11 = 1
test12 = 1.5
test13 = 2
test21 = 0
test22 = 5

Dx = numpy.matrix('test11 test12 test13; test21 test22 -0.5; 0 -0.5 1.5')

Etc... for many variables...

Appreciate ANY help, thank you very much!



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 17:19:49 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 15:19:49 -0600
Subject: numpy - 2D matrix/array - initialization like in Matlab...
In-Reply-To: <k5hu2e$h5i$1@dont-email.me>
References: <k5hu2e$h5i$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkgxU17r6h0mHGiSPLZtv0Dh+9ipR-UKy6ZtU3wgxpUxg@mail.gmail.com>

On Oct 15, 2012 3:12 PM, "someone" <newsboost at gmail.com> wrote:
> How to initialize my array directly using variables ?

Why not just use the list-of-lists constructor instead of the string
constructor?

m = numpy.matrix([[1,2,3],[4,5,6],[7,8,test]])
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From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 17:24:08 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 22:24:08 +0100
Subject: How to use "while" within the command in -c option of python?
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qX50y6uVFXs6OxZaVYyUPT-1jLHqY5GoDr3x4Xctd0Xtw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANOe_mhhn31Qb2iB1nWydWSm=MJ0xK0o5vxWR+mLeO5ggqwmwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2101.1350083051.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5078b6a9$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<20121013084132.GA5083@taris.box>
	<CAPTjJmrBc1hABysXXpkTs3YWnBukEg=WiZD2TFnUWnQmXJ-t7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qX50y6uVFXs6OxZaVYyUPT-1jLHqY5GoDr3x4Xctd0Xtw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qWDrifCOPY6S+Pt3p-jx0zqEkLOXj2kEuAjYdLLoKEJag@mail.gmail.com>

On 13 October 2012 17:38, Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com> wrote:

> This here isn't a flaw in Python, though. It's a flaw in the command-line
> interpreter. By putting it all on one line, you are effectively saying:
> "group these". Which is the same as an "if True:" block, and some things
> like Reinteract even supply a grouping block like "build".
>
> That said, because some shells suck it would be nice if:
>
>> python -c "a=1\nif a:print(a)"
>
> worked (just for -c).
>
>
And, spurred on by another thread, this has become possible.

Make a file like so, install it if you wish.

import sys
> evaluable = sys.argv[1].encode("utf8").decode("unicode_escape")
> exec(evaluable)


This lets you do this:

python unicode_escape.py "a = []    ##\nfor x in range(100):    ##\n
>  a.append(x)    ##\n  a.append(x**2)    ##\nprint(a)"


It's ugly, but it works and only takes one line.
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Oct 15 17:26:18 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 22:26:18 +0100
Subject: numpy - 2D matrix/array - initialization like in Matlab...
In-Reply-To: <k5hu2e$h5i$1@dont-email.me>
References: <k5hu2e$h5i$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <507C7F7A.5010007@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-15 22:09, someone wrote:
>
> See this:
>
> ==========================================================
> In [5]: Dx = numpy.matrix('1 0 0; 0 0.5 -0.5; 0 -0.5 1.5')
>
> In [6]: Dx
> Out[6]:
> matrix([[ 1. ,  0. ,  0. ],
>           [ 0. ,  0.5, -0.5],
>           [ 0. , -0.5,  1.5]])
> ==========================================================
>
>
>
> Ok... So now test = 33 and instead of the value 1.5 I want to use the
> value of "test" and put it directly into the matrix (or array):
>
> ==========================================================
> In [7]: test=33
>
> In [8]: Dx = numpy.matrix('1 0 0; 0 0.5 -0.5; 0 -0.5 test')
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> NameError                                 Traceback (most recent call last)
> /home/user/something/<ipython-input-8-5a43575649e1> in <module>()
> ----> 1 Dx = numpy.matrix('1 0 0; 0 0.5 -0.5; 0 -0.5 test')
>
> /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/numpy/matrixlib/defmatrix.pyc in
> __new__(subtype, data, dtype, copy)
>       252
>       253         if isinstance(data, str):
> --> 254             data = _convert_from_string(data)
>       255
>       256         # now convert data to an array
> ...... etc...
> ==========================================================
>
>
>
> So obviously it doesn't understand that I want this:
>
> ==========================================================
> In [21]: Dx[2,2]=test
>
> In [22]: Dx
> Out[22]:
> matrix([[  1. ,   0. ,   0. ],
>           [  0. ,  33. ,  -0.5],
>           [  0. ,  -0.5,  33. ]])
> ==========================================================
>
> Without having to manually change all the individual places using my
> variables (test is actually many variables, not just one but I think you
> should understand the problem now).
>
>
> How to initialize my array directly using variables ?
>
> It could also be that I wanted:
>
> test11 = 1
> test12 = 1.5
> test13 = 2
> test21 = 0
> test22 = 5
>
> Dx = numpy.matrix('test11 test12 test13; test21 test22 -0.5; 0 -0.5 1.5')
>
> Etc... for many variables...
>
> Appreciate ANY help, thank you very much!
>
What it prints should give you a hint:

 >>> Dx = numpy.matrix([[test11, test12, test13], [test21, test22, 
-0.5], [0, -0.5, 1.5]])
 >>> Dx
matrix([[ 1. ,  1.5,  2. ],
         [ 0. ,  5. , -0.5],
         [ 0. , -0.5,  1.5]])



From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 17:50:17 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 22:50:17 +0100
Subject: numpy - 2D matrix/array - initialization like in Matlab...
In-Reply-To: <k5hu2e$h5i$1@dont-email.me>
References: <k5hu2e$h5i$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qWKun4uaQ8O1DEXGchdwCMzdL7ff0220YJ3kJd8fOmMiw@mail.gmail.com>

On 15 October 2012 22:09, someone <newsboost at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> See this:
>
> ==============================**============================
> In [5]: Dx = numpy.matrix('1 0 0; 0 0.5 -0.5; 0 -0.5 1.5')
>
> In [6]: Dx
> Out[6]:
> matrix([[ 1. ,  0. ,  0. ],
>         [ 0. ,  0.5, -0.5],
>         [ 0. , -0.5,  1.5]])
> ==============================**============================
>

<snip>


> Without having to manually change all the individual places using my
> variables (test is actually many variables, not just one but I think you
> should understand the problem now).
>
>
> How to initialize my array directly using variables ?
>
> It could also be that I wanted:
>
> test11 = 1
> test12 = 1.5
> test13 = 2
> test21 = 0
> test22 = 5
>
> Dx = numpy.matrix('test11 test12 test13; test21 test22 -0.5; 0 -0.5 1.5')
>
> Etc... for many variables...
>
> Appreciate ANY help, thank you very much!


 Well, I don't know that much on Numpy (I've only ever used the basic
stuff), but Ian Kelly's probably right. If you can't "just use" a list, why
don't you convert it?

def matrixstring2lists(string, lookup_chain):
>     stringmatrix = [substr.split() for substr in string.split(";")]



    return [
>         [
>             lookup_chain[item] if item.isidentifier() else eval(item)
>             for item in items
>         ]
>         for items in stringmatrix
>     ]



##### TESTS ######
> import builtins



## {{{ http://code.activestate.com/recipes/305268/ (r2)
> class Chainmap(dict):
>     """Combine multiple mappings for sequential lookup.



    For example, to emulate Python's normal lookup sequence:
>         import __builtin__
>         pylookup = Chainmap(locals(), globals(), vars(__builtin__))
>     """
>     def __init__(self, *maps):
>         self._maps = maps
>     def __getitem__(self, key):
>         for mapping in self._maps:
>             try:
>                 return mapping[key]
>             except KeyError:
>                 pass
>         raise KeyError(key)
> ## end of http://code.activestate.com/recipes/305268/ }}}


> test11 = 1
> test12 = 1.5
> test13 = 2
> test21 = 0
> test22 = 5



print(matrixstring2lists(
>     'test11 test12 test13; test21 test22 -0.5; 0 -0.5 1.5',
>     Chainmap(locals(), globals(), vars(__builtins__))
> ))


That said, calling "matrixstring2lists" requires inputting a mapping from
the local scope, so I don't see how it could get much simpler to call
(minus removing "vars(__builtins__)" unless you *really* want that for some
reason.
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From emile at fenx.com  Mon Oct 15 17:52:26 2012
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 14:52:26 -0700
Subject: numpy - 2D matrix/array - initialization like in Matlab...
In-Reply-To: <k5hu2e$h5i$1@dont-email.me>
References: <k5hu2e$h5i$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <k5i0g9$lo$1@ger.gmane.org>

someone wrote:
> How to initialize my array directly using variables ?
> 
> It could also be that I wanted:
> 
> test11 = 1
> test12 = 1.5
> test13 = 2
> test21 = 0
> test22 = 5
> 
> Dx = numpy.matrix('test11 test12 test13; test21 test22 -0.5; 0 -0.5 1.5')
> 
> Etc... for many variables...
> 
> Appreciate ANY help, thank you very much!

You could use string interpolation:

Dx = numpy.matrix('%s %s %s; %s %s -0.5; 0 -0.5 1.5'
               % (test11 test12 test13 test21 test22))


Emile



From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Mon Oct 15 18:26:07 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 22:26:07 +0000
Subject: Tkinter how to access the widget by name
In-Reply-To: <40621ce6-1b68-4cfa-8baf-cbfefce4f32b@googlegroups.com>
References: <40621ce6-1b68-4cfa-8baf-cbfefce4f32b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF474167133DA@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

???????? ????? wrote:
> I'm a little teapot ... himself the question: if I want to appeal to the widget, knowing his name... ?
> 
> # appropriated the name of the widget
> label = Label(frame, width = 40, text='text', name = 'name')
> ...
> name_='name'
> configure(name_)
> ...
> def configure(name_)
>         #And how can that be?
>         # At least let the text you want to change ....
> 
> I beg you ..!!!!
> --

I am unfamiliar with Tkinter, so this might not be very helpful.

Usually with the GUI I have created before I uses classes and store 
the widgets inside the classes. That makes it easier to use
`self.widgetname` or `getattr(self, widgetname)`. If that is not
something you can instead store the attributes in a list/dictionary.
In both cases make sure not to have multiple widgets created with
the same name.

Note the following is all untested and should be considered pseudo-code.

widgets = {}
label = Label(frame, width = 40, text='text', name = 'name')
widgets['name'] = label

def configure(name_):
    widget = widgets[name_] 

OR

widgets = []
label = Label(frame, width = 40, text='text', name = 'name')
widgets.append( label )

def configure(name_):
    found = False
    for w in widgets:
         if w.name == name_: # No idea how to get name from Tk widget
               found = True
               break
     if found:
        # configure here


Ramit Prasad


This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From newsboost at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 18:42:34 2012
From: newsboost at gmail.com (someone)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 00:42:34 +0200
Subject: numpy - 2D matrix/array - initialization like in Matlab...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2241.1350336380.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <k5hu2e$h5i$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2241.1350336380.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <507C915A.6000905@gmail.com>

On 10/15/2012 11:26 PM, MRAB wrote:
> On 2012-10-15 22:09, someone wrote:
>>
>> See this:
>>
>> ==========================================================
>> In [5]: Dx = numpy.matrix('1 0 0; 0 0.5 -0.5; 0 -0.5 1.5')
>>
>> In [6]: Dx
>> Out[6]:
>> matrix([[ 1. ,  0. ,  0. ],
>>           [ 0. ,  0.5, -0.5],
>>           [ 0. , -0.5,  1.5]])
>> ==========================================================
>>
>>
>>
>> Ok... So now test = 33 and instead of the value 1.5 I want to use the
>> value of "test" and put it directly into the matrix (or array):
>>
>> ==========================================================
>> In [7]: test=33
>>
>> In [8]: Dx = numpy.matrix('1 0 0; 0 0.5 -0.5; 0 -0.5 test')
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> NameError                                 Traceback (most recent call
>> last)
>> /home/user/something/<ipython-input-8-5a43575649e1> in <module>()
>> ----> 1 Dx = numpy.matrix('1 0 0; 0 0.5 -0.5; 0 -0.5 test')
>>
>> /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/numpy/matrixlib/defmatrix.pyc in
>> __new__(subtype, data, dtype, copy)
>>       252
>>       253         if isinstance(data, str):
>> --> 254             data = _convert_from_string(data)
>>       255
>>       256         # now convert data to an array
>> ...... etc...
>> ==========================================================
>>
>>
>>
>> So obviously it doesn't understand that I want this:
>>
>> ==========================================================
>> In [21]: Dx[2,2]=test
>>
>> In [22]: Dx
>> Out[22]:
>> matrix([[  1. ,   0. ,   0. ],
>>           [  0. ,  33. ,  -0.5],
>>           [  0. ,  -0.5,  33. ]])
>> ==========================================================
>>
>> Without having to manually change all the individual places using my
>> variables (test is actually many variables, not just one but I think you
>> should understand the problem now).
>>
>>
>> How to initialize my array directly using variables ?
>>
>> It could also be that I wanted:
>>
>> test11 = 1
>> test12 = 1.5
>> test13 = 2
>> test21 = 0
>> test22 = 5
>>
>> Dx = numpy.matrix('test11 test12 test13; test21 test22 -0.5; 0 -0.5 1.5')
>>
>> Etc... for many variables...
>>
>> Appreciate ANY help, thank you very much!
>>
> What it prints should give you a hint:
>
>  >>> Dx = numpy.matrix([[test11, test12, test13], [test21, test22,
> -0.5], [0, -0.5, 1.5]])
>  >>> Dx
> matrix([[ 1. ,  1.5,  2. ],
>          [ 0. ,  5. , -0.5],
>          [ 0. , -0.5,  1.5]])

Uh, great - thank you very much!

As you maybe see, I'm only a python newbie so I'm not so good at 
understanding the error messages and reading the source code yet.

Thank you very much for the solution to the problem! It's highly 
appreciated. Thanks.




From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 19:07:42 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 00:07:42 +0100
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqG8HbQ7_FTfqvKQ_DQrfwqgThPbuv5vav=v51aHQicdw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qVY3aEETMFhLn9+vTU2XZ+b3d0whzCuJqGvaJg_A+8XAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<k5ho37$mqm$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAPTjJmqG8HbQ7_FTfqvKQ_DQrfwqgThPbuv5vav=v51aHQicdw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qXGapfFT0xZ_H1cGRSpAtYktnh5DLsPuPfNrPvYARXUHQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 15 October 2012 20:51, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 6:28 AM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
> > I like clearly written code like this
> >
> > "
> > d = {}
> > for c in (65, 97):
> >     for i in range(26):
> >         d[chr(i+c)] = chr((i+13) % 26 + c)
> >
> > print "".join([d.get(c, c) for c in s])
>
> Surely there's a shorter way to rot13 a piece of text? CODE GOLF!
>
> At very least, a single cryptic expression in place of your nice clear
> loops MUST be an improvement.
>
> d = dict((chr(i+c),chr((i+13)%26+c))for i in range(26)for c in(65,97))
>
> And with superfluous spaces removed like that, it takes 0.02
> jiggawatts less power in DeLorean Python.
>



> print("".join(chr([[?,(?+21)%26+96],[?%26+65]][64<?<91][96<?<123])for ? in
> map(ord,s)))


That was fun. Remember, Unicode has more characters, so you can fit more
code in less space.

<*Oh God, what have I done?!>*
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From vasudevram at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 20:09:59 2012
From: vasudevram at gmail.com (vasudevram)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 17:09:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using pipe_controller to swap pipe components at runtime
Message-ID: <bff30e85-0691-4774-ba84-3af38c4cf661@googlegroups.com>


I added a couple of methods / functions to my pipe_controller Python module, the Python tool to experiment with pipelined functions within a program.

With these additions, it is now possible to swap the components of a pipe_controller 'pipe' programmatically, at runtime (*), and then run the pipe again (all within the same program), with differing results (from before and after the swap).

(*) Instead of having to edit the source code to change the order in which the functions in the pipe are called, that change of order can be done programmatically, via a swap_processors() method.

Blog post about it:

http://jugad2.blogspot.in/2012/10/swapping-pipe-components-at-runtime.html

The post includes snippets of the added methods / functions, and a sample run of a test program that demonstrates the new component-swapping feature.

The latest code with the above changes is on Bitbucket at:

https://bitbucket.org/vasudevram/pipe_controller

- Vasudev Ram
www.dancingbison.com
jugad2.blogspot.com



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Oct 15 20:25:01 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Oct 2012 00:25:01 GMT
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
References: <mailman.2205.1350309347.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <507ca95d$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:25:38 +0530, Debashish Saha wrote:

> how to insert random error in a programming?

While editing the source code, have your cat walk across the keyboard.

I really think you need to explain your question better.



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Oct 15 20:47:17 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Oct 2012 00:47:17 GMT
Subject: Exception Messages
References: <8b5cb95f-424b-45a8-b19b-42f92f531a75@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <507cae95$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:00:15 -0700, Wanderer wrote:

> How do you get Exceptions to print messages? I have an exception defined
> like this
> 
> class PvCamError(Exception):
>     def __init__(self, msg):
>         self.msg = msg

Please don't invent yet another interface for exception messages. 
Exceptions already have two defined interfaces for accessing the error 
message:

exception.message  # older, now obsolete, and gone in Python 3.
exception.args  # recommended way

Please use the same interface that nearly all exceptions already have and 
use an "args" argument. The easiest way to do this is also the simplest:

class PvCamError(Exception): pass


If you *must* support "msg", do something like this:

class PvCamError(Exception):
    def __init__(self, msg, *args):
        super(PvCamError, self).__init__(msg, *args)  # see footnote [1]
        self.msg = msg





[1] If you're using Python 3, you can abbreviate the super call to:

    super().__init__(self, msg, *args)



-- 
Steven


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 21:21:55 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 18:21:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
References: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qVY3aEETMFhLn9+vTU2XZ+b3d0whzCuJqGvaJg_A+8XAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<k5ho37$mqm$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2235.1350330692.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <95825209-889a-4820-9b10-6a60be4f171c@jj5g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 16, 5:52?am, Chris Angelico <ros... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Surely there's a shorter way to rot13 a piece of text? CODE GOLF!

In Python2: "a piece of string".encode('rot13') :)

> At very least, a single cryptic expression in place of your nice clear
> loops MUST be an improvement.
>
> d = dict((chr(i+c),chr((i+13)%26+c))for i in range(26)for c in(65,97))

Do I get points for explicitness?

import string as s
print "a piece of text".translate(
    s.maketrans(
        s.letters,
        s.letters[:26][13:]+s.letters[:26][:13]+s.letters[26:]
[13:]+s.letters[26:][:13]
    )
)


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 21:26:16 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 18:26:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Fastest web framework
References: <DUB117-W80EE2285B5E415AA14B5B9919F0@phx.gbl>
	<mailman.2203.1350308439.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8b51748d-0517-4b1d-a0a6-e8fa06dd4b68@r10g2000pbd.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 15, 11:40?pm, Andriy Kornatskyy <andriy.kornats... at live.com>
wrote:
> Comments or suggestions are welcome.

Performance speed is possibly the least interesting aspect of web
frameworks; ease of use & readily re-usable 3rd party code figures
much higher, IMO. Rather than constantly hammer on about performance,
maybe you could take the time to explain any other advantages your
framework provides.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 22:21:36 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:21:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
References: <mailman.2205.1350309347.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5hbvb$ek7$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <d391c7a4-41ab-4992-84cb-cacd1550d022@a4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 15, 9:00?pm, John Gordon <gor... at panix.com> wrote:
> In <mailman.2205.1350309347.27098.python-l... at python.org> Debashish Saha <silid... at gmail.com> writes:
>
> > how to insert random error in a programming?
>
> Open the program source file and replace the Nth character with a random
> character.

I'm reminded of a description of vi:

A program with two modes, one in which it beeps and the other in which
it corrupts your file.


From roy at panix.com  Mon Oct 15 22:27:08 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 22:27:08 -0400
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
References: <mailman.2205.1350309347.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5hbvb$ek7$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<d391c7a4-41ab-4992-84cb-cacd1550d022@a4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-5F87C1.22270815102012@news.panix.com>

In article 
<d391c7a4-41ab-4992-84cb-cacd1550d022 at a4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,
 rusi <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Oct 15, 9:00?pm, John Gordon <gor... at panix.com> wrote:
> > In <mailman.2205.1350309347.27098.python-l... at python.org> Debashish Saha 
> > <silid... at gmail.com> writes:
> >
> > > how to insert random error in a programming?
> >
> > Open the program source file and replace the Nth character with a random
> > character.
> 
> I'm reminded of a description of vi:
> 
> A program with two modes, one in which it beeps and the other in which
> it corrupts your file.

All the vi you need to know:  <esc> : q ! <return>


From noah at coad.net  Mon Oct 15 22:41:25 2012
From: noah at coad.net (Noah Coad)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:41:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: easy_install says "not a recognized archive type" Windows Py3
Message-ID: <43c15417-d2a8-4995-8ff8-cfe5d13aac63@googlegroups.com>

Hello, I'm new to Python, have v3.0 32bit installed on Windows 7, installed distribute, now trying to install pymysql and am getting the below error.  Any pointers on how to fix?  thanks!!  -Noah

[C:\Python32]pip install --upgrade distribute
Real name of requirement distribute is distribute
Requirement already up-to-date: distribute in c:\python32\lib\site-packages\dist
ribute-0.6.28-py3.2.egg
Cleaning up...

[C:\Python32]easy_install pymysql
Searching for pymysql
Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/pymysql/
Couldn't find index page for 'pymysql' (maybe misspelled?)
Scanning index of all packages (this may take a while)
Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/
Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/PyMySQL/
Reading http://code.google.com/p/pymysql
Best match: PyMySQL 0.5
Downloading http://pypi.python.org/packages/source/P/PyMySQL/PyMySQL-0.5.tar.gz#
md5=125e8a3449e05afcb04874a19673426b
Processing PyMySQL-0.5.tar.gz
error: Not a recognized archive type: c:\users\noahco~1\appdata\local\temp\easy_
install-gpekqc\PyMySQL-0.5.tar.gz


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 23:24:54 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 23:24:54 -0400
Subject: LinkedIn Python group discussions
In-Reply-To: <k5e8eg$ro2$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <k5e8eg$ro2$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJU_Ao7AVRvCKchmn+f4SX-q2o+Rt8h29mk-Ebyi9wPM4g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 7:42 AM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> I've been sparked into raising the subject as this has just come up "Does
> Jython/Python fall short of true POSIX thread parallelism?".  I'm not
> qualified to comment and I recognise relatively few names amongst the people
> who do participate over there.

I subscribe to many lists, but you're not going to find people
interested in certain aspects of programming.


The last thing I'd want would be FUD or
> worse still complete crap being written in response to any thread and me not
> being in a position to reply.

If you're on the right mailing list, and you can use google for a
little research, then it's very unlikely you'll get bs'd

 Is this something for the Python community
> here to be thinking about?

Not really. These are specific things being questioned that might have
something to do with python, but are mainly specific to certain areas
of computing that involve python, but need to be solved by others in
other areas of computing/utilization of python.

Sometimes it's their problem, but sometimes it's pythons, which does
need to be analyzed and corrected for specific systems/OS's.


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From dreadpiratejeff at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 23:43:06 2012
From: dreadpiratejeff at gmail.com (J)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 23:43:06 -0400
Subject: Is there a way to create kernel log messages via Python?
Message-ID: <CAFB6qZsK1b0sZV_5C7QTVv5BLvRYRttfUd5jh_Ko_JH00KFUUw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi...

I have a bit of code that does the following:

uses the syslog module to inject a LOG_INFO message into the syslog on
my linux machine
runs a suspend/resume cycle
uses the syslog module to inkect a LOG_INFO message marking the end of test.

Then I parse everything between the start and stop markers for certain
items that the Linux kernel logs during a suspend and resume cycle.

But my  "resume complete" timing is not as accurate as it could be.
The problem with doing it this way is that while I can find definite
kernel messages that mark various points in the suspend/resume cycle,
the final message when the kernel is done resuming is NOT the point I
actually want to mark.

Instead, the end point I want is the time of the ending marker itself,
as this happens after certain other things are done such as resumption
of networking services.

Here's the problem.  I can't just use syslog timestamps.  The reason
is that the syslog timestamps are only indicative of when messages are
written to syslog via syslogd.  The kernel timestamps are different.
For example, the following bits of log are taken from the time the
test starts until the end of the "going to sleep" kernel messages.
First, note that there's a 5 second difference between the START
marker and the first kernel message.  Next, look at the kernel
timestamps.  The total real time to suspend starts at 421320.380947
and ends at 421322.386355, around 2 seconds later, where the log
messages themselves all state that the events occurred at the same
time.

Oct 15 10:24:19 klaatu sleep_test: ---SLEEP TEST START 1350296656---
Oct 15 10:25:24 klaatu kernel: [421320.380947] PM: Syncing filesystems ... done.
Oct 15 10:25:24 klaatu kernel: [421320.391282] PM: Preparing system
for mem sleep
[SNIP]
Oct 15 10:25:24 klaatu kernel: [421322.282943] Broke affinity for irq 23
Oct 15 10:25:24 klaatu kernel: [421322.386355] CPU 7 is now offline

So, what I REALLY want is to inject my start/stop markers into klogd
rather than syslogd.  This will, I hope, give my markers kernel
timestamps rather than syslog timestamps which are not as accurate.

So does anyone know of a way to do this?  Unfortunately, I've tried
some searching but google doesn't like the term klog, and most of the
hits involved injecting code or other things that are not related at
all.

Or, if there's a better way to get accurate timestamps, what would that be?


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Oct 15 23:46:48 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Oct 2012 03:46:48 GMT
Subject: how to insert random error in a programming
References: <CA+b=61AiVYehyGbFyvyTqsfZeio1NoWKtw1SwJV_r_MZ1BcVwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qVY3aEETMFhLn9+vTU2XZ+b3d0whzCuJqGvaJg_A+8XAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<k5ho37$mqm$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2235.1350330692.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<95825209-889a-4820-9b10-6a60be4f171c@jj5g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <507cd8a7$0$1689$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 18:21:55 -0700, alex23 wrote:

> On Oct 16, 5:52?am, Chris Angelico <ros... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Surely there's a shorter way to rot13 a piece of text? CODE GOLF!
> 
> In Python2: "a piece of string".encode('rot13') :)

And in Python 3, unfortunately there has been a right-royal mess made of 
the codecs system:

http://bugs.python.org/issue7475

So I expect that in Python 3.4 this will work:

"a piece of string".transform('rot13')

or this:

import codecs
codecs.encode('a piece of string', 'rot13')


but who knows really?



-- 
Steven


From tharanga.abeyseela at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 23:57:30 2012
From: tharanga.abeyseela at gmail.com (Tharanga Abeyseela)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 14:57:30 +1100
Subject: delete xml elements - using xpath search
Message-ID: <CAOMTrfecpoHumOXu7qOJ2ximm63vwq-7aY19QpGdTOT+wFos0w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys,


i need to delete the following pattern and its parent node from my xml
file (IF THE SEARCH STRING FOUND)

<Rating>NC</Rating>

if i find the above particular string , i need to delete the XML
elements (parent of the <Rating> element.  problem is i have different
parent nodes with different names..

like

<movies>
     <name> xxx</name>
      <title>xxx </title>
      <Rating>NC</Rating>
</movies>

<tvshow>
    <name> </name>
     <title>xxx </title>
     <Rating>NC</Rating>
</tvshow>

<tvepisode>
    <name>xxx </name>
     <title>xxx </title>
     <Rating>M</Rating>
</tvepisode>


as an example, i need to remove <movies> section and <tvshow> section
from my xml, (because it has the word NC) but need to keep <tvepisode>

can someone point me to the correct direction, or code snippet

Thanks in advance
tharanga


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 00:05:45 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 00:05:45 -0400
Subject: OT Questions
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>

Like a lot of people here, I'm trying to build a web development business.
I'm starting off by building a profile on a freelance site.

I would like some honest opinions(don't be too harsh), about my approach.
I'm looking for a team effort to analyze my marketability.

This is just my prototype freelance portfolio:

https://www.odesk.com/users/~01710ac049863018eb

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 00:20:32 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 00:20:32 -0400
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJW6sJCSiTBWkN6SG9ys30dfB7iDZLOPVYja42N_3aYkeA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:
> Like a lot of people here, I'm trying to build a web development business.
> I'm starting off by building a profile on a freelance site.
>
> I would like some honest opinions(don't be too harsh, or you can be, that's what it's about), about my approach.
> I'm looking for a team effort to analyze my marketability.
>
> This is just my prototype freelance portfolio:
>
> https://www.odesk.com/users/~01710ac049863018eb
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> David Hutto
> CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com



-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From yujian4newsgroup at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 00:27:34 2012
From: yujian4newsgroup at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?6ICB54i3?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 12:27:34 +0800
Subject: Which book is the best?
Message-ID: <CAG2kGtKbuO4+rk8xw6yVaUHaoax4c1z3UXHbzm4wX+3_8Dx7mA@mail.gmail.com>

I have strong c++ development experience.  But now I want to study the
python to do some windows setting task, such as editing file, changing the
system setting, doing some network processing.  Please help me which book
is the best?

Thanks.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20121016/aa70b0fb/attachment.html>

From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 00:41:26 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 00:41:26 -0400
Subject: Which book is the best?
In-Reply-To: <CAG2kGtKbuO4+rk8xw6yVaUHaoax4c1z3UXHbzm4wX+3_8Dx7mA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG2kGtKbuO4+rk8xw6yVaUHaoax4c1z3UXHbzm4wX+3_8Dx7mA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJUXWHw9EqS9xdNXBO7cAhCBSeFnBamFFRE7b8X8pCEmsg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 12:27 AM, ?? <yujian4newsgroup at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have strong c++ development experience.  But now I want to study the
> python to do some windows setting task, such as editing file, changing the
> system setting, doing some network processing.  Please help me which book is
> the best?
>
>
Definitely command line apps/command line usage.

 I could recommend google searches, but use the calls to the OS, and
you can accomplish a good bit of things.


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Oct 16 01:50:53 2012
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 07:50:53 +0200
Subject: delete xml elements - using xpath search
In-Reply-To: <CAOMTrfecpoHumOXu7qOJ2ximm63vwq-7aY19QpGdTOT+wFos0w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOMTrfecpoHumOXu7qOJ2ximm63vwq-7aY19QpGdTOT+wFos0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5isjs$c1e$1@ger.gmane.org>

Tharanga Abeyseela, 16.10.2012 05:57:
> i need to delete the following pattern and its parent node from my xml
> file (IF THE SEARCH STRING FOUND)
> 
> <Rating>NC</Rating>
> 
> if i find the above particular string , i need to delete the XML
> elements (parent of the <Rating> element.  problem is i have different
> parent nodes with different names..
> 
> like
> 
> <movies>
>      <name> xxx</name>
>       <title>xxx </title>
>       <Rating>NC</Rating>
> </movies>
> 
> <tvshow>
>     <name> </name>
>      <title>xxx </title>
>      <Rating>NC</Rating>
> </tvshow>
> 
> <tvepisode>
>     <name>xxx </name>
>      <title>xxx </title>
>      <Rating>M</Rating>
> </tvepisode>
> 
> 
> as an example, i need to remove <movies> section and <tvshow> section
> from my xml, (because it has the word NC) but need to keep <tvepisode>
> 
> can someone point me to the correct direction, or code snippet

Use the xml.etree.ElementTree module. Just parse() in the file, iterate
over the nodes, use the findtext() method to search for the text of
"Rating" tags and compare it to "NC". Keep the nodes that don't match.

Stefan




From mcepl at redhat.com  Tue Oct 16 02:38:16 2012
From: mcepl at redhat.com (=?iso-8859-2?b?TWF07Go=?= Cepl)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 06:38:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Where are documentation for Gnome
Message-ID: <k5ivco$2cq1$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>

On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 20:14:50 +0200, Kwpolska wrote:
> https://live.gnome.org/EyeOfGnome/Plugins#Python
> 
> That is all the documentation in existence for Python plugins.
> 
> Examples:
> http://git.gnome.org/browse/eog-plugins/tree/plugins/slideshowshuffle
> http://git.gnome.org/browse/eog-plugins/tree/plugins/pythonconsole
> 
> The C code may be of use:
> 
> http://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/GNOME/sources/eog/3.6/eog-3.6.0.tar.xz
> 
> Have fun? oh wait.  You can?t, because PyGTK is an unreadable mess.
> And you are working with undocumented stuff.

Also, it is irrelevant ... Gnome3 doesn't use PyGTK, you want PyGIO (for 
example https://live.gnome.org/PyGObject/IntrospectionPorting and other 
links to PyGIO). Hint: if you install gobject-introsepction-devel (or 
whatever is the name of the package in your distro), you will get in 
devhelp quite a nice documentation, and also a lot of stuff to read in /
usr/share/gir-*/.

Best,

Mat?j



From aaron.l.france at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 04:11:52 2012
From: aaron.l.france at gmail.com (aaron.l.france at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 01:11:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Providing a Python wrapper to a C++ type.
Message-ID: <b71bb1ac-cfe0-45eb-a384-4d6109c99543@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I have a C++ module where I have a defined, working type. How would I make a wrapper for this type to be able to be used in Python? I am familiar(-ish) with the C-API for functions but I can't see concretely how one would include an interface to a type.

Is it this? http://docs.python.org/release/2.7.3/extending/newtypes.html

Regards,
Aaron


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct 16 04:30:01 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 10:30:01 +0200
Subject: [on topic] Re: readline trick needed
References: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <k5j5sk$msb$1@ger.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> I'm working with the readline module, and I'm trying to set a key
> combination to process the current command line by calling a known
> function, *and* enter the command line.
> 
> Something along the lines of:
> 
> * execute function spam() in some context where it can access
>   the current command line as a string
> * enter the command line
> 
> Function spam() may or may not modify the command line.

> (P.S. I'm aware of IPython, I want to get this working in the standard
> CPython interpreter.)

If IPython does what you want why don't you have a look at the source?

Anyway, here's what I came up with (no warranties as it was all trial-and-
error):

$ cat readline_callback.py
import ctypes
import ctypes.util
from ctypes import c_int, c_char_p
import readline
import sys

rlname = ctypes.util.find_library("readline")

# int rl_add_defun (const char *name, rl_command_func_t *function, int key)
# typedef int rl_command_func_t (int, int);
# int rl_done
# char * rl_line_buffer

rl = ctypes.CDLL(rlname)

RL_COMMAND_FUNC = ctypes.CFUNCTYPE(c_int, c_int, c_int)

intercepted_line = None
def lovely_spam(a, b):
    global intercepted_line
    print
    intercepted_line = c_char_p.in_dll(rl, "rl_line_buffer").value
    rl.rl_insert_text("*" + intercepted_line)
    c_int.in_dll(rl, "rl_done").value = 1
    return 0

def control(c):
    return ord(c.upper())-64

rl.rl_add_defun("lovely-spam", RL_COMMAND_FUNC(lovely_spam), control("P"))

#rl.rl_add_defun("lovely-spam", RL_COMMAND_FUNC(lovely_spam), -1)
#readline.parse_and_bind("Control-P: lovely-spam")

$ python -i readline_callback.py 
>>> alpha = 42
>>> alpha
1764

The relevant documentation:
http://cnswww.cns.cwru.edu/php/chet/readline/readline.html
http://docs.python.org/library/ctypes.html




From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Oct 16 04:44:56 2012
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 16 Oct 2012 08:44:56 GMT
Subject: portable unicode literals
References: <t8etk9-5h9.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<mailman.2204.1350308926.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <XnsA0EE620C017FFduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Alex Strickland <sscc at mweb.co.za> wrote:

> On 2012/10/15 03:05 PM, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> 
>> This actually came as a surprise to me, I assumed that using b'' I could
>> portably create a byte string (which is true) and using u'' I could
>> portably create a unicode string (which is not true). This feature would
>> help porting code between both versions. While this is a state I can
>> live with, I wonder what the rationale for this is.
>>
>> !puzzled thanks
> 
> u'' is legal in 3.3 again.
> 
and if you want it to work in 3.1 and 3.2 there is the uprefix import hook: 
https://bitbucket.org/vinay.sajip/uprefix


-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From sanal.vikram at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 04:48:17 2012
From: sanal.vikram at gmail.com (Gaudha)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 01:48:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Accessing variables in __init__.py
Message-ID: <d302fa06-f480-450a-83c5-ad7768dc846c@googlegroups.com>

my_package/
  __init__.py
  my_module1.py
  my_module2.py
  variables.py

I want to define common variables in __init__.py and use the namespace in my_module1.py or my_module2.py. Defining it is not a problem. How can call it from my modules?

If I define them in a module (say, variables.py), I can call them by importing variables.py in other modules. How can it be done if I define it in __init__.py?

It may be a silly query as I am newbie in Python. But, I would be grateful to get help.


From nad at acm.org  Tue Oct 16 04:50:17 2012
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 01:50:17 -0700
Subject: [on topic] Re: readline trick needed
References: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<k5j5sk$msb$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <nad-B8F710.01501716102012@news.gmane.org>

In article <k5j5sk$msb$1 at ger.gmane.org>, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> 
wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote: 
> > I'm working with the readline module, and I'm trying to set a key
> > combination to process the current command line by calling a known
> > function, *and* enter the command line.
[...]
> Anyway, here's what I came up with (no warranties as it was all trial-and-
> error):
[...]

Keep in mind that the Python readline module may be linked to either the 
GPL-licensed GNU readline or the BSD-licensed editline (libedit) library 
(the default on newer OS X systems and probably on *BSD systems) and 
they have different command strings.  Note the warning here:

http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/readline.html

Or it may not be linked with either.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From asha873 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 05:04:58 2012
From: asha873 at gmail.com (Ayesha D.)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 02:04:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Immediate need for Python Developers (Django,mysql, jquery) Work
	locations Hyderabad/Mumbia, exp: 4-8yrs,
	please share resumes to ayesha.d@galloptech.com.
Message-ID: <dd6f6706-c1cc-4298-a4bb-255de11cabb7@googlegroups.com>



From sravanisatyavolu1234 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 05:11:11 2012
From: sravanisatyavolu1234 at gmail.com (Satyavolu Sravani)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 02:11:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Immediate Hire Hyderabad: Requirement for Python Developer/ Lead with
	4-8 yrs.Email me if you are interested at sravani@galloptech.com
Message-ID: <0724b3ad-49d3-4ddd-b1ee-b3af779653c0@googlegroups.com>

?  Development of RESTful web services using Python/WSGI.
?  Implement and maintain applications using Python and Oracle.
?  Create automated test coverage and continuous integration for new & existing code.
?  Create/use tools to load and update statistical & editorial content in Oracle database.
?  Create integration between secure file transfer system, data integration batch jobs, and operational RDBMS.
?  Experience using git
?  Manage codebase, builds & branches using git / jenkins / bcfg2. 
?  Experience working with XML
?  Experience with Python web servers 


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Oct 16 05:22:32 2012
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 11:22:32 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: What's the tidy/elegant way to protect this against null/empty
	parameters?
In-Reply-To: <1b8tk9-un9.ln1@chris.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <541344387.635476.1350379352854.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>



----- Original Message -----
> I want to fix an error in some code I have installed, however I don't
> really want to just bodge it.
> 
> The function producing the error is:-
> 
>     def get_text(self, idx):               # override !
>         node = self.items[idx]
> 
>         a= [
>             ", ".join(node.tags),
>             node.comment,
>             node.folderName,
>             cd2rd(node.date),
>             node.name,
>             '[' + self.rating_stars[node.rating] + ']'
>             ] [self.select]
> 
>         return a
> 
> 
> The error occurs when node[] (or at least its members) turn out to be
> empty, you get a Traceback that ends with:-
> 
>   File "/usr/lib/jbrout/jbrout/listview.py", line 608, in draw_cell
>   layout.set_text(self.get_text(thumbnail_num))
>   File "/usr/lib/jbrout/jbrout.py", line 325, in get_text ",
>   ".join(node.tags),
>   TypeError: sequence item 0: expected string, NoneType found
> 
> Now its *probably* something higher up the tree causing the problem
> (it's only one particular image in 20 thousand or so that breaks
> things) but I really want to just get things working.  So, what's the
> neatest way to protect the get_text() method from empty data?
> 
> 
> --
> Chris Green
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Hi Chris,

Usually, you want to keep your variable types consistent. For instance, if node.tags is supposed to be a string, then make it so that it is always a string.
However NoneType may be one inconsistent type that is acceptable for any variable. It depends on the situation, and your personal preferences.

To go back to your example, None may have a different meaning that an empty string. Here's a way to redefine locally a None object into an empty string:

", ".join(node.tags or '')

if node itself can be None, here's a way to protect against None attribute access:

", ".join(node and node.tags)

you can combine the 2 methods:

", ".join((node and node.tags) or '')


This method uses the fact that:
A and B returns B if bool(A) and bool(B) are True, returns the first non True between A and B.
A or B returns B if bool(A) is False, returns A if bool(A) is True.

JM


From andriy.kornatskyy at live.com  Tue Oct 16 06:02:00 2012
From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com (Andriy Kornatskyy)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 13:02:00 +0300
Subject: Fastest web framework
In-Reply-To: <DUB117-W9212B9611585606344918B918F0@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB117-W80EE2285B5E415AA14B5B9919F0@phx.gbl>,
	<DUB117-W9212B9611585606344918B918F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <DUB117-W759A2218988936732668C691700@phx.gbl>


Per community request I have updated benchmarks for web2py 2.1.1 release (the newer version performs 26% better; no error while running on pypy):

Here are updated posts, just in case:

http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/09/python-fastest-web-framework.html
http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/10/python-web-routing-benchmark.html

Thanks.

Andriy


----------------------------------------
> From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: RE: Fastest web framework
> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 16:44:19 +0300
>
>
> How fast python web framework process routing (URL dispatch)?
>
> Here is a benchmark for various web frameworks (bottle, django, flask, pyramid, tornado and wheezy.web) running the following routing: static, dynamic, SEO and missing... with a trivial 'hello world' application (all routes are pointing to the same handler).
>
> http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/10/python-web-routing-benchmark.html
>
> Benchmark is executed in isolated environment using CPython 2.7.
>
> Comments or suggestions are welcome.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Andriy Kornatskyy
>
> > From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com
> > To: python-list at python.org
> > Subject: Fastest web framework
> > Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 12:19:16 +0300
> >
> >
> > I have run recently a benchmark of a trivial 'hello world' application for various python web frameworks (bottle, django, flask, pyramid, web.py, wheezy.web) hosted in uWSGI/cpython2.7 and gunicorn/pypy1.9... you might find it interesting:
> >
> > http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/09/python-fastest-web-framework.html
> >
> > Comments or suggestions are welcome.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Andriy Kornatskyy
> >
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
 		 	   		  

From nawijn at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 06:07:04 2012
From: nawijn at gmail.com (Marco Nawijn)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 03:07:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What's the tidy/elegant way to protect this against null/empty
	parameters?
In-Reply-To: <1b8tk9-un9.ln1@chris.zbmc.eu>
References: <1b8tk9-un9.ln1@chris.zbmc.eu>
Message-ID: <119b3721-9d4f-4394-abd4-1ec19c0e5676@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 15, 2012 1:33:02 PM UTC+2, (unknown) wrote:
> I want to fix an error in some code I have installed, however I don't
> 
> really want to just bodge it.
> 
> 
> 
> The function producing the error is:-
> 
> 
> 
>     def get_text(self, idx):               # override !
> 
>         node = self.items[idx]
> 
> 
> 
>         a= [
> 
>             ", ".join(node.tags),
> 
>             node.comment,
> 
>             node.folderName,
> 
>             cd2rd(node.date),
> 
>             node.name,
> 
>             '[' + self.rating_stars[node.rating] + ']'
> 
>             ] [self.select]
> 
> 
> 
>         return a
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The error occurs when node[] (or at least its members) turn out to be
> 
> empty, you get a Traceback that ends with:-
> 
> 
> 
>   File "/usr/lib/jbrout/jbrout/listview.py", line 608, in draw_cell layout.set_text(self.get_text(thumbnail_num))
> 
>   File "/usr/lib/jbrout/jbrout.py", line 325, in get_text ", ".join(node.tags),
> 
>   TypeError: sequence item 0: expected string, NoneType found
> 
> 
> 
> Now its *probably* something higher up the tree causing the problem
> 
> (it's only one particular image in 20 thousand or so that breaks
> 
> things) but I really want to just get things working.  So, what's the
> 
> neatest way to protect the get_text() method from empty data?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Chris Green
Hi,

Instead of protecting against empty data, you could just catch the exception, issue a warning and return a default "error" node which is valid. So something like (not tested):

def get_text(self, idx):               # override ! 
        node = self.items[idx] 

        error_a = "A valid, but erroneous representation of a"
        
        try:
            a= [ 
                ", ".join(node.tags), 
                node.comment, 
                node.folderName, 
                cd2rd(node.date), 
                node.name, 
                '[' + self.rating_stars[node.rating] + ']' 
                ] [self.select] 
        except TypeError:
              print 'Oops, something went wrong'
              a = error_a
        # You should always have a valid a here (or another exception has  occured)
        return a 


From nawijn at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 06:11:55 2012
From: nawijn at gmail.com (Marco Nawijn)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 03:11:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Accessing variables in __init__.py
In-Reply-To: <d302fa06-f480-450a-83c5-ad7768dc846c@googlegroups.com>
References: <d302fa06-f480-450a-83c5-ad7768dc846c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b96f1a07-b147-4d22-a87a-9f0aea7993d5@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 10:48:17 AM UTC+2, Gaudha wrote:
> my_package/
> 
>   __init__.py
> 
>   my_module1.py
> 
>   my_module2.py
> 
>   variables.py
> 
> 
> 
> I want to define common variables in __init__.py and use the namespace in my_module1.py or my_module2.py. Defining it is not a problem. How can call it from my modules?
> 
> 
> 
> If I define them in a module (say, variables.py), I can call them by importing variables.py in other modules. How can it be done if I define it in __init__.py?
> 
> 
> 
> It may be a silly query as I am newbie in Python. But, I would be grateful to get help.

Hi,

If you store the variables in __init__.py, you can import them from the package. So in your case suppose __init__.py contains:
a = 10
b = {1 :"Hello", 2: "World" }

Than if you import my_package, you can access the variables as follows (interactive IPython session):

In [1]: import my_package

In [2]: my_pack
my_package   my_package/  

In [2]: my_package.
my_package.a  my_package.b  

In [2]: my_package.a
Out[2]: 10

In [3]: my_package.b
Out[3]: {1: 'Hello', 2: 'World'}

In [4]: 



From nawijn at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 06:17:53 2012
From: nawijn at gmail.com (Marco Nawijn)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 03:17:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Providing a Python wrapper to a C++ type.
In-Reply-To: <b71bb1ac-cfe0-45eb-a384-4d6109c99543@googlegroups.com>
References: <b71bb1ac-cfe0-45eb-a384-4d6109c99543@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0423426c-c19a-4634-9f67-5bf92d766f61@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 10:11:52 AM UTC+2, aaron.l... at gmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> I have a C++ module where I have a defined, working type. How would I make a wrapper for this type to be able to be used in Python? I am familiar(-ish) with the C-API for functions but I can't see concretely how one would include an interface to a type.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it this? http://docs.python.org/release/2.7.3/extending/newtypes.html
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Aaron

Hi Aaron,

There are a few ways of doing this. At least three come to my mind:
1. Wrap the C++ type yourself by using handcrafted code implemented with the Python C API
2. Use SWIG to wrap the C++ code and (semi) automatically create the wrapper (http://www.swig.org/)
3. Use BOOST Python to wrap the C++ code (http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_51_0/libs/python/doc/index.html)

I would highly discourage (1) unless you are very brave and curious. Ofcourse it is a nice excercise, but if you want something to work quickly I would recommend to use either (2) or (3).

I have used both SWIG and BOOST Python and either of them worked pretty well for me. In the end I selected BOOST Python, because I was only interested in the Python wrapping (SWIG could generate many other wrappers as well).

Regards,

Marco


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct 16 06:20:33 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 12:20:33 +0200
Subject: [on topic] Re: readline trick needed
References: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<k5j5sk$msb$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<nad-B8F710.01501716102012@news.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <k5jcbs$eub$1@ger.gmane.org>

Ned Deily wrote:

> In article <k5j5sk$msb$1 at ger.gmane.org>, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>
> wrote:
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> > I'm working with the readline module, and I'm trying to set a key
>> > combination to process the current command line by calling a known
>> > function, *and* enter the command line.
> [...]
>> Anyway, here's what I came up with (no warranties as it was all
>> trial-and- error):
> [...]
> 
> Keep in mind that the Python readline module may be linked to either the
> GPL-licensed GNU readline or the BSD-licensed editline (libedit) library
> (the default on newer OS X systems and probably on *BSD systems) and
> they have different command strings.  Note the warning here:
> 
> http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/readline.html

I think you are a Mac user. If so, can the snippet I posted be generalised 
to work with libedit?
 
> Or it may not be linked with either.

OK, change "no warranties" to "absolutely no warranties" ;)




From nawijn at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 06:22:13 2012
From: nawijn at gmail.com (Marco Nawijn)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 03:22:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Which book is the best?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2253.1350362489.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAG2kGtKbuO4+rk8xw6yVaUHaoax4c1z3UXHbzm4wX+3_8Dx7mA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2253.1350362489.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <86c1280c-7642-4398-b712-ffbc4a06a392@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 6:41:29 AM UTC+2, David Hutto wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 12:27 AM, ?? <yujian4newsgroup at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > I have strong c++ development experience.  But now I want to study the
> 
> > python to do some windows setting task, such as editing file, changing the
> 
> > system setting, doing some network processing.  Please help me which book is
> 
> > the best?
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> Definitely command line apps/command line usage.
> 
> 
> 
>  I could recommend google searches, but use the calls to the OS, and
> 
> you can accomplish a good bit of things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> David Hutto
> 
> CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com

Hi,

Although I agree with the fact the working in the interactive interpreter (may I recommend IPython for this) is definitely an efficient way of exploring the Python world, I also liked alot the Python Essential Reference (4th edition). Since you already understand how to program, the Python essential reference quickly guides you through Python language and the standard library.

Regards,

Marco


From nawijn at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 06:22:13 2012
From: nawijn at gmail.com (Marco Nawijn)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 03:22:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Which book is the best?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2253.1350362489.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAG2kGtKbuO4+rk8xw6yVaUHaoax4c1z3UXHbzm4wX+3_8Dx7mA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2253.1350362489.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <86c1280c-7642-4398-b712-ffbc4a06a392@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 6:41:29 AM UTC+2, David Hutto wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 12:27 AM, ?? <yujian4newsgroup at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > I have strong c++ development experience.  But now I want to study the
> 
> > python to do some windows setting task, such as editing file, changing the
> 
> > system setting, doing some network processing.  Please help me which book is
> 
> > the best?
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> Definitely command line apps/command line usage.
> 
> 
> 
>  I could recommend google searches, but use the calls to the OS, and
> 
> you can accomplish a good bit of things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> David Hutto
> 
> CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com

Hi,

Although I agree with the fact the working in the interactive interpreter (may I recommend IPython for this) is definitely an efficient way of exploring the Python world, I also liked alot the Python Essential Reference (4th edition). Since you already understand how to program, the Python essential reference quickly guides you through Python language and the standard library.

Regards,

Marco


From nawijn at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 06:26:00 2012
From: nawijn at gmail.com (Marco Nawijn)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 03:26:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is there a way to create kernel log messages via Python?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2248.1350359007.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2248.1350359007.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d6997d2f-e284-4f33-ac84-c0d6fd100efc@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 5:43:28 AM UTC+2, J wrote:
> Hi...
> 
> 
> 
> I have a bit of code that does the following:
> 
> 
> 
> uses the syslog module to inject a LOG_INFO message into the syslog on
> 
> my linux machine
> 
> runs a suspend/resume cycle
> 
> uses the syslog module to inkect a LOG_INFO message marking the end of test.
> 
> 
> 
> Then I parse everything between the start and stop markers for certain
> 
> items that the Linux kernel logs during a suspend and resume cycle.
> 
> 
> 
> But my  "resume complete" timing is not as accurate as it could be.
> 
> The problem with doing it this way is that while I can find definite
> 
> kernel messages that mark various points in the suspend/resume cycle,
> 
> the final message when the kernel is done resuming is NOT the point I
> 
> actually want to mark.
> 
> 
> 
> Instead, the end point I want is the time of the ending marker itself,
> 
> as this happens after certain other things are done such as resumption
> 
> of networking services.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the problem.  I can't just use syslog timestamps.  The reason
> 
> is that the syslog timestamps are only indicative of when messages are
> 
> written to syslog via syslogd.  The kernel timestamps are different.
> 
> For example, the following bits of log are taken from the time the
> 
> test starts until the end of the "going to sleep" kernel messages.
> 
> First, note that there's a 5 second difference between the START
> 
> marker and the first kernel message.  Next, look at the kernel
> 
> timestamps.  The total real time to suspend starts at 421320.380947
> 
> and ends at 421322.386355, around 2 seconds later, where the log
> 
> messages themselves all state that the events occurred at the same
> 
> time.
> 
> 
> 
> Oct 15 10:24:19 klaatu sleep_test: ---SLEEP TEST START 1350296656---
> 
> Oct 15 10:25:24 klaatu kernel: [421320.380947] PM: Syncing filesystems ... done.
> 
> Oct 15 10:25:24 klaatu kernel: [421320.391282] PM: Preparing system
> 
> for mem sleep
> 
> [SNIP]
> 
> Oct 15 10:25:24 klaatu kernel: [421322.282943] Broke affinity for irq 23
> 
> Oct 15 10:25:24 klaatu kernel: [421322.386355] CPU 7 is now offline
> 
> 
> 
> So, what I REALLY want is to inject my start/stop markers into klogd
> 
> rather than syslogd.  This will, I hope, give my markers kernel
> 
> timestamps rather than syslog timestamps which are not as accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> So does anyone know of a way to do this?  Unfortunately, I've tried
> 
> some searching but google doesn't like the term klog, and most of the
> 
> hits involved injecting code or other things that are not related at
> 
> all.
> 
> 
> 
> Or, if there's a better way to get accurate timestamps, what would that be?

Hi,

I cannot be of too much help here, but is there a userspace/kernel C-interface that could be used. If so, you might be able to use the Python ctypes module to create messages at the correct moments

Regards,
Marco


From nawijn at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 06:26:00 2012
From: nawijn at gmail.com (Marco Nawijn)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 03:26:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is there a way to create kernel log messages via Python?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2248.1350359007.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2248.1350359007.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d6997d2f-e284-4f33-ac84-c0d6fd100efc@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 5:43:28 AM UTC+2, J wrote:
> Hi...
> 
> 
> 
> I have a bit of code that does the following:
> 
> 
> 
> uses the syslog module to inject a LOG_INFO message into the syslog on
> 
> my linux machine
> 
> runs a suspend/resume cycle
> 
> uses the syslog module to inkect a LOG_INFO message marking the end of test.
> 
> 
> 
> Then I parse everything between the start and stop markers for certain
> 
> items that the Linux kernel logs during a suspend and resume cycle.
> 
> 
> 
> But my  "resume complete" timing is not as accurate as it could be.
> 
> The problem with doing it this way is that while I can find definite
> 
> kernel messages that mark various points in the suspend/resume cycle,
> 
> the final message when the kernel is done resuming is NOT the point I
> 
> actually want to mark.
> 
> 
> 
> Instead, the end point I want is the time of the ending marker itself,
> 
> as this happens after certain other things are done such as resumption
> 
> of networking services.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the problem.  I can't just use syslog timestamps.  The reason
> 
> is that the syslog timestamps are only indicative of when messages are
> 
> written to syslog via syslogd.  The kernel timestamps are different.
> 
> For example, the following bits of log are taken from the time the
> 
> test starts until the end of the "going to sleep" kernel messages.
> 
> First, note that there's a 5 second difference between the START
> 
> marker and the first kernel message.  Next, look at the kernel
> 
> timestamps.  The total real time to suspend starts at 421320.380947
> 
> and ends at 421322.386355, around 2 seconds later, where the log
> 
> messages themselves all state that the events occurred at the same
> 
> time.
> 
> 
> 
> Oct 15 10:24:19 klaatu sleep_test: ---SLEEP TEST START 1350296656---
> 
> Oct 15 10:25:24 klaatu kernel: [421320.380947] PM: Syncing filesystems ... done.
> 
> Oct 15 10:25:24 klaatu kernel: [421320.391282] PM: Preparing system
> 
> for mem sleep
> 
> [SNIP]
> 
> Oct 15 10:25:24 klaatu kernel: [421322.282943] Broke affinity for irq 23
> 
> Oct 15 10:25:24 klaatu kernel: [421322.386355] CPU 7 is now offline
> 
> 
> 
> So, what I REALLY want is to inject my start/stop markers into klogd
> 
> rather than syslogd.  This will, I hope, give my markers kernel
> 
> timestamps rather than syslog timestamps which are not as accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> So does anyone know of a way to do this?  Unfortunately, I've tried
> 
> some searching but google doesn't like the term klog, and most of the
> 
> hits involved injecting code or other things that are not related at
> 
> all.
> 
> 
> 
> Or, if there's a better way to get accurate timestamps, what would that be?

Hi,

I cannot be of too much help here, but is there a userspace/kernel C-interface that could be used. If so, you might be able to use the Python ctypes module to create messages at the correct moments

Regards,
Marco


From nawijn at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 06:34:45 2012
From: nawijn at gmail.com (Marco Nawijn)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 03:34:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: numpy - 2D matrix/array - initialization like in Matlab...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2245.1350340959.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <k5hu2e$h5i$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2241.1350336380.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2245.1350340959.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <12844532-43d7-4acf-8fac-0a3a6c5faf6d@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:43:09 AM UTC+2, someone wrote:
> On 10/15/2012 11:26 PM, MRAB wrote:
> 
> > On 2012-10-15 22:09, someone wrote:
> 
> >>
> 
> >> See this:
> 
> >>
> 
> >> ==========================================================
> 
> >> In [5]: Dx = numpy.matrix('1 0 0; 0 0.5 -0.5; 0 -0.5 1.5')
> 
> >>
> 
> >> In [6]: Dx
> 
> >> Out[6]:
> 
> >> matrix([[ 1. ,  0. ,  0. ],
> 
> >>           [ 0. ,  0.5, -0.5],
> 
> >>           [ 0. , -0.5,  1.5]])
> 
> >> ==========================================================
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Ok... So now test = 33 and instead of the value 1.5 I want to use the
> 
> >> value of "test" and put it directly into the matrix (or array):
> 
> >>
> 
> >> ==========================================================
> 
> >> In [7]: test=33
> 
> >>
> 
> >> In [8]: Dx = numpy.matrix('1 0 0; 0 0.5 -0.5; 0 -0.5 test')
> 
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> >>
> 
> >> NameError                                 Traceback (most recent call
> 
> >> last)
> 
> >> /home/user/something/<ipython-input-8-5a43575649e1> in <module>()
> 
> >> ----> 1 Dx = numpy.matrix('1 0 0; 0 0.5 -0.5; 0 -0.5 test')
> 
> >>
> 
> >> /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/numpy/matrixlib/defmatrix.pyc in
> 
> >> __new__(subtype, data, dtype, copy)
> 
> >>       252
> 
> >>       253         if isinstance(data, str):
> 
> >> --> 254             data = _convert_from_string(data)
> 
> >>       255
> 
> >>       256         # now convert data to an array
> 
> >> ...... etc...
> 
> >> ==========================================================
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> So obviously it doesn't understand that I want this:
> 
> >>
> 
> >> ==========================================================
> 
> >> In [21]: Dx[2,2]=test
> 
> >>
> 
> >> In [22]: Dx
> 
> >> Out[22]:
> 
> >> matrix([[  1. ,   0. ,   0. ],
> 
> >>           [  0. ,  33. ,  -0.5],
> 
> >>           [  0. ,  -0.5,  33. ]])
> 
> >> ==========================================================
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Without having to manually change all the individual places using my
> 
> >> variables (test is actually many variables, not just one but I think you
> 
> >> should understand the problem now).
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> How to initialize my array directly using variables ?
> 
> >>
> 
> >> It could also be that I wanted:
> 
> >>
> 
> >> test11 = 1
> 
> >> test12 = 1.5
> 
> >> test13 = 2
> 
> >> test21 = 0
> 
> >> test22 = 5
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Dx = numpy.matrix('test11 test12 test13; test21 test22 -0.5; 0 -0.5 1.5')
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Etc... for many variables...
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Appreciate ANY help, thank you very much!
> 
> >>
> 
> > What it prints should give you a hint:
> 
> >
> 
> >  >>> Dx = numpy.matrix([[test11, test12, test13], [test21, test22,
> 
> > -0.5], [0, -0.5, 1.5]])
> 
> >  >>> Dx
> 
> > matrix([[ 1. ,  1.5,  2. ],
> 
> >          [ 0. ,  5. , -0.5],
> 
> >          [ 0. , -0.5,  1.5]])
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, great - thank you very much!
> 
> 
> 
> As you maybe see, I'm only a python newbie so I'm not so good at 
> 
> understanding the error messages and reading the source code yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you very much for the solution to the problem! It's highly 
> 
> appreciated. Thanks.

Hi,

Also note that you don't need to initialize the array with a string. You could directly do it like this:

>>> a = numpy.array(((1,2,3), (2,3,4), (4,5,6)))

Other things that might be interesting for you are:

# List comprehension (standard python) to convert strings to floats
>>> vals = [ float(s) for s in "1.0 2.3 1.2".split() ]
produces [1.0, 2.3, 1.2]
>>> vals = [ float(s) for s in ("1.0", "2.3", "1.2") ]
produces again [1.0, 2.3, 1.2]

Also lookup the documentation for numpy.reshape. With this you could provide a single list of for example 9 numbers and reshape it into a 3x3 array.

Python and Numpy are so cool!!

Marco


From nawijn at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 06:34:45 2012
From: nawijn at gmail.com (Marco Nawijn)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 03:34:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: numpy - 2D matrix/array - initialization like in Matlab...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2245.1350340959.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <k5hu2e$h5i$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2241.1350336380.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2245.1350340959.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <12844532-43d7-4acf-8fac-0a3a6c5faf6d@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:43:09 AM UTC+2, someone wrote:
> On 10/15/2012 11:26 PM, MRAB wrote:
> 
> > On 2012-10-15 22:09, someone wrote:
> 
> >>
> 
> >> See this:
> 
> >>
> 
> >> ==========================================================
> 
> >> In [5]: Dx = numpy.matrix('1 0 0; 0 0.5 -0.5; 0 -0.5 1.5')
> 
> >>
> 
> >> In [6]: Dx
> 
> >> Out[6]:
> 
> >> matrix([[ 1. ,  0. ,  0. ],
> 
> >>           [ 0. ,  0.5, -0.5],
> 
> >>           [ 0. , -0.5,  1.5]])
> 
> >> ==========================================================
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Ok... So now test = 33 and instead of the value 1.5 I want to use the
> 
> >> value of "test" and put it directly into the matrix (or array):
> 
> >>
> 
> >> ==========================================================
> 
> >> In [7]: test=33
> 
> >>
> 
> >> In [8]: Dx = numpy.matrix('1 0 0; 0 0.5 -0.5; 0 -0.5 test')
> 
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> >>
> 
> >> NameError                                 Traceback (most recent call
> 
> >> last)
> 
> >> /home/user/something/<ipython-input-8-5a43575649e1> in <module>()
> 
> >> ----> 1 Dx = numpy.matrix('1 0 0; 0 0.5 -0.5; 0 -0.5 test')
> 
> >>
> 
> >> /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/numpy/matrixlib/defmatrix.pyc in
> 
> >> __new__(subtype, data, dtype, copy)
> 
> >>       252
> 
> >>       253         if isinstance(data, str):
> 
> >> --> 254             data = _convert_from_string(data)
> 
> >>       255
> 
> >>       256         # now convert data to an array
> 
> >> ...... etc...
> 
> >> ==========================================================
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> So obviously it doesn't understand that I want this:
> 
> >>
> 
> >> ==========================================================
> 
> >> In [21]: Dx[2,2]=test
> 
> >>
> 
> >> In [22]: Dx
> 
> >> Out[22]:
> 
> >> matrix([[  1. ,   0. ,   0. ],
> 
> >>           [  0. ,  33. ,  -0.5],
> 
> >>           [  0. ,  -0.5,  33. ]])
> 
> >> ==========================================================
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Without having to manually change all the individual places using my
> 
> >> variables (test is actually many variables, not just one but I think you
> 
> >> should understand the problem now).
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> How to initialize my array directly using variables ?
> 
> >>
> 
> >> It could also be that I wanted:
> 
> >>
> 
> >> test11 = 1
> 
> >> test12 = 1.5
> 
> >> test13 = 2
> 
> >> test21 = 0
> 
> >> test22 = 5
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Dx = numpy.matrix('test11 test12 test13; test21 test22 -0.5; 0 -0.5 1.5')
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Etc... for many variables...
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Appreciate ANY help, thank you very much!
> 
> >>
> 
> > What it prints should give you a hint:
> 
> >
> 
> >  >>> Dx = numpy.matrix([[test11, test12, test13], [test21, test22,
> 
> > -0.5], [0, -0.5, 1.5]])
> 
> >  >>> Dx
> 
> > matrix([[ 1. ,  1.5,  2. ],
> 
> >          [ 0. ,  5. , -0.5],
> 
> >          [ 0. , -0.5,  1.5]])
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, great - thank you very much!
> 
> 
> 
> As you maybe see, I'm only a python newbie so I'm not so good at 
> 
> understanding the error messages and reading the source code yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you very much for the solution to the problem! It's highly 
> 
> appreciated. Thanks.

Hi,

Also note that you don't need to initialize the array with a string. You could directly do it like this:

>>> a = numpy.array(((1,2,3), (2,3,4), (4,5,6)))

Other things that might be interesting for you are:

# List comprehension (standard python) to convert strings to floats
>>> vals = [ float(s) for s in "1.0 2.3 1.2".split() ]
produces [1.0, 2.3, 1.2]
>>> vals = [ float(s) for s in ("1.0", "2.3", "1.2") ]
produces again [1.0, 2.3, 1.2]

Also lookup the documentation for numpy.reshape. With this you could provide a single list of for example 9 numbers and reshape it into a 3x3 array.

Python and Numpy are so cool!!

Marco


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Oct 16 07:27:37 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Oct 2012 11:27:37 GMT
Subject: [on topic] Re: readline trick needed
References: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2255.1350376172.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <507d44a9$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 10:30:01 +0200, Peter Otten wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> I'm working with the readline module, and I'm trying to set a key
>> combination to process the current command line by calling a known
>> function, *and* enter the command line.
>> 
>> Something along the lines of:
>> 
>> * execute function spam() in some context where it can access
>>   the current command line as a string
>> * enter the command line
>> 
>> Function spam() may or may not modify the command line.
> 
>> (P.S. I'm aware of IPython, I want to get this working in the standard
>> CPython interpreter.)
> 
> If IPython does what you want why don't you have a look at the source?

Well, I was hoping for a pure Python solution, rather than having to 
troll through who knows how many thousands of lines of code in a language 
I can barely read.


> Anyway, here's what I came up with (no warranties as it was all
> trial-and- error):
> 
> $ cat readline_callback.py
> import ctypes

Ah, ctypes.

Well, I guess I have some interesting study ahead of me, to make head or 
tail of your solution. Thank you!



-- 
Steven


From grahams at tectime.com  Tue Oct 16 07:29:21 2012
From: grahams at tectime.com (graham)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 12:29:21 +0100
Subject: Python on Windows
Message-ID: <1pKdnT9EiNaO2ODNnZ2dnUVZ8rCdnZ2d@bt.com>


Downloaded and installed Python 2.7.3 for windows (an XP machine).

Entered the Python interactive interpreter/command line and typed the 
following:

	>>>import feedparser

and I get the error message "No module named feedparser".

There is a feedparser.py file lurking around - so I suppose Python 
cannot find it.

Anyone: What to do?



GC



From nawijn at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 07:35:19 2012
From: nawijn at gmail.com (Marco Nawijn)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 04:35:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on Windows
In-Reply-To: <1pKdnT9EiNaO2ODNnZ2dnUVZ8rCdnZ2d@bt.com>
References: <1pKdnT9EiNaO2ODNnZ2dnUVZ8rCdnZ2d@bt.com>
Message-ID: <63069c5e-2979-47db-828a-39570899452f@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:29:23 PM UTC+2, graham wrote:
> Downloaded and installed Python 2.7.3 for windows (an XP machine).
> 
> 
> 
> Entered the Python interactive interpreter/command line and typed the 
> 
> following:
>
> 
> 
> 	>>>import feedparser
> 
> 
> 
> and I get the error message "No module named feedparser".
> 
> 
> 
> There is a feedparser.py file lurking around - so I suppose Python 
> 
> cannot find it.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone: What to do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GC
Hi,

feedparser.py is not a Python standard library. So, if it feedparser is located in a non-standard folder you have at least the following two options:
1. Update the PYTHONPATH environment variable such that it includes the path the installation location of feedparser.py

2. Add the path to feedparser.py directly in the script that uses it. Something like the following:
import sys
sys.path.append("path to feedparser.py")

import feedparser

Regards,

Marco


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Oct 16 07:39:23 2012
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 13:39:23 +0200
Subject: Providing a Python wrapper to a C++ type.
In-Reply-To: <0423426c-c19a-4634-9f67-5bf92d766f61@googlegroups.com>
References: <b71bb1ac-cfe0-45eb-a384-4d6109c99543@googlegroups.com>
	<0423426c-c19a-4634-9f67-5bf92d766f61@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k5jh1a$odl$1@ger.gmane.org>

Marco Nawijn, 16.10.2012 12:17:
> On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 10:11:52 AM UTC+2, aaron.l... at gmail.com wrote:
>> I have a C++ module where I have a defined, working type. How would I
>> make a wrapper for this type to be able to be used in Python? I am
>> familiar(-ish) with the C-API for functions but I can't see concretely how
>> one would include an interface to a type.
>>
>> Is it this? http://docs.python.org/release/2.7.3/extending/newtypes.html
> 
> There are a few ways of doing this. At least three come to my mind:
> 1. Wrap the C++ type yourself by using handcrafted code implemented with the Python C API
> 2. Use SWIG to wrap the C++ code and (semi) automatically create the wrapper (http://www.swig.org/)
> 3. Use BOOST Python to wrap the C++ code (http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_51_0/libs/python/doc/index.html)
> 
> I would highly discourage (1) unless you are very brave and curious. Ofcourse it is a nice excercise, but if you want something to work quickly I would recommend to use either (2) or (3).
> 
> I have used both SWIG and BOOST Python and either of them worked pretty well for me. In the end I selected BOOST Python, because I was only interested in the Python wrapping (SWIG could generate many other wrappers as well).

There's also Cython, which provides a very flexible way (unlike SWIG) of
doing these things easily (unlike C++ with Boost).

http://docs.cython.org/src/userguide/wrapping_CPlusPlus.html

I agree with discouraging 1) in specific.

Stefan




From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 07:44:36 2012
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 07:44:36 -0400
Subject: Python on Windows
In-Reply-To: <1pKdnT9EiNaO2ODNnZ2dnUVZ8rCdnZ2d@bt.com>
References: <1pKdnT9EiNaO2ODNnZ2dnUVZ8rCdnZ2d@bt.com>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+z-ivSpSoSOy9d-8PjTamShmfgmbZxbprZxE0e+2unX_Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 7:29 AM, graham <grahams at tectime.com> wrote:
>
> Downloaded and installed Python 2.7.3 for windows (an XP machine).
>
> Entered the Python interactive interpreter/command line and typed the
> following:
>
>         >>>import feedparser
>
> and I get the error message "No module named feedparser".
>
> There is a feedparser.py file lurking around - so I suppose Python cannot
> find it.
>
> Anyone: What to do?
>
>
I'm guessing your python path is not set up.  Look here:
http://docs.python.org/using/windows.html

or google windows xp setting python path


>
> GC
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



-- 
Joel Goldstick


From nawijn at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 07:46:17 2012
From: nawijn at gmail.com (Marco Nawijn)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 04:46:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Providing a Python wrapper to a C++ type.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2263.1350387583.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <b71bb1ac-cfe0-45eb-a384-4d6109c99543@googlegroups.com>
	<0423426c-c19a-4634-9f67-5bf92d766f61@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2263.1350387583.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d2c77c2a-21de-4f39-8c10-d1b44fdf23d7@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:39:44 PM UTC+2, Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Marco Nawijn, 16.10.2012 12:17:
> 
> > On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 10:11:52 AM UTC+2, aaron.l... at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> >> I have a C++ module where I have a defined, working type. How would I
> 
> >> make a wrapper for this type to be able to be used in Python? I am
> 
> >> familiar(-ish) with the C-API for functions but I can't see concretely how
> 
> >> one would include an interface to a type.
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Is it this? http://docs.python.org/release/2.7.3/extending/newtypes.html
> 
> > 
> 
> > There are a few ways of doing this. At least three come to my mind:
> 
> > 1. Wrap the C++ type yourself by using handcrafted code implemented with the Python C API
> 
> > 2. Use SWIG to wrap the C++ code and (semi) automatically create the wrapper (http://www.swig.org/)
> 
> > 3. Use BOOST Python to wrap the C++ code (http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_51_0/libs/python/doc/index.html)
> 
> > 
> 
> > I would highly discourage (1) unless you are very brave and curious. Ofcourse it is a nice excercise, but if you want something to work quickly I would recommend to use either (2) or (3).
> 
> > 
> 
> > I have used both SWIG and BOOST Python and either of them worked pretty well for me. In the end I selected BOOST Python, because I was only interested in the Python wrapping (SWIG could generate many other wrappers as well).
> 
> 
> 
> There's also Cython, which provides a very flexible way (unlike SWIG) of
> 
> doing these things easily (unlike C++ with Boost).
> 
> 
> 
> http://docs.cython.org/src/userguide/wrapping_CPlusPlus.html
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with discouraging 1) in specific.
> 
> 
> 
> Stefan

Hi Stefan,

I never worked with Cython (but I know it is very powerful and interesting) but in my mind there are slight differences in usage scenario between e.g. Boost Python and Cython. For me the idea of Cython is that your main code is in Python, but you want to improve the performance of specific parts of the code. In that case, Cython is the way to go. In case of Boost Python, the scenario for me is that you have a main program/library in C++, but you want to be able use the functionality from Python. 

Do you agree with this view?

Marco


From nawijn at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 07:46:17 2012
From: nawijn at gmail.com (Marco Nawijn)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 04:46:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Providing a Python wrapper to a C++ type.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2263.1350387583.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <b71bb1ac-cfe0-45eb-a384-4d6109c99543@googlegroups.com>
	<0423426c-c19a-4634-9f67-5bf92d766f61@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2263.1350387583.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d2c77c2a-21de-4f39-8c10-d1b44fdf23d7@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:39:44 PM UTC+2, Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Marco Nawijn, 16.10.2012 12:17:
> 
> > On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 10:11:52 AM UTC+2, aaron.l... at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> >> I have a C++ module where I have a defined, working type. How would I
> 
> >> make a wrapper for this type to be able to be used in Python? I am
> 
> >> familiar(-ish) with the C-API for functions but I can't see concretely how
> 
> >> one would include an interface to a type.
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Is it this? http://docs.python.org/release/2.7.3/extending/newtypes.html
> 
> > 
> 
> > There are a few ways of doing this. At least three come to my mind:
> 
> > 1. Wrap the C++ type yourself by using handcrafted code implemented with the Python C API
> 
> > 2. Use SWIG to wrap the C++ code and (semi) automatically create the wrapper (http://www.swig.org/)
> 
> > 3. Use BOOST Python to wrap the C++ code (http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_51_0/libs/python/doc/index.html)
> 
> > 
> 
> > I would highly discourage (1) unless you are very brave and curious. Ofcourse it is a nice excercise, but if you want something to work quickly I would recommend to use either (2) or (3).
> 
> > 
> 
> > I have used both SWIG and BOOST Python and either of them worked pretty well for me. In the end I selected BOOST Python, because I was only interested in the Python wrapping (SWIG could generate many other wrappers as well).
> 
> 
> 
> There's also Cython, which provides a very flexible way (unlike SWIG) of
> 
> doing these things easily (unlike C++ with Boost).
> 
> 
> 
> http://docs.cython.org/src/userguide/wrapping_CPlusPlus.html
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with discouraging 1) in specific.
> 
> 
> 
> Stefan

Hi Stefan,

I never worked with Cython (but I know it is very powerful and interesting) but in my mind there are slight differences in usage scenario between e.g. Boost Python and Cython. For me the idea of Cython is that your main code is in Python, but you want to improve the performance of specific parts of the code. In that case, Cython is the way to go. In case of Boost Python, the scenario for me is that you have a main program/library in C++, but you want to be able use the functionality from Python. 

Do you agree with this view?

Marco


From andriy.kornatskyy at live.com  Tue Oct 16 07:49:39 2012
From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com (Andriy Kornatskyy)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 14:49:39 +0300
Subject: Fastest web framework
In-Reply-To: <8b51748d-0517-4b1d-a0a6-e8fa06dd4b68@r10g2000pbd.googlegroups.com>
References: <DUB117-W80EE2285B5E415AA14B5B9919F0@phx.gbl>,
	<mailman.2203.1350308439.27098.python-list@python.org>,
	<8b51748d-0517-4b1d-a0a6-e8fa06dd4b68@r10g2000pbd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <DUB117-W741B72171E7BBFB4B07D7791700@phx.gbl>


Alex,

Thank you, see my answers inline to your comments:

> Performance speed is possibly the least interesting aspect of web
> frameworks;

Performance and effectivity are related metrics. Longer feature list can not explain why it less effective. An answer to effectivity question might be related to:
- code quality (we have PEP8)
- architectural decisions taken
- core team experience
- historical path,?etc.

> ease of use & readily re-usable 3rd party code figures
> much higher, IMO.

I think these are very valid requirements for the modern web framework. I believe all web frameworks are easy to use (... some too seriously take this?), of cause readability/flexibility counts.

There is a problem with 3rd party code... it should evolve with framework... so good one become a part of it.?3rd party UI things are good, until you start `customize` them, patch, workaround, etc. This is where pain come from. However, there are exceptions. Can you name few?

> Rather than constantly hammer on about performance,
> maybe you could take the time to explain any other advantages your
> framework provides.

Let me state this:?"wheezy.web let you design web application to be able run it at the speed of `hello world`, even database driven one".

Here is how: use content caching with cache dependency. Read more:
http://packages.python.org/wheezy.http/userguide.html#content-cache

Invest 30 minutes to understand it:
http://packages.python.org/wheezy.web/tutorial.html

All web frameworks are good, some better. It is important what you see as an advantage...

Thanks.

Andriy Kornatskyy


----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 18:26:16 -0700
> Subject: Re: Fastest web framework
> From: wuwei23 at gmail.com
> To: python-list at python.org
>
> On Oct 15, 11:40 pm, Andriy Kornatskyy <andriy.kornats... at live.com>
> wrote:
>> Comments or suggestions are welcome.
>
> Performance speed is possibly the least interesting aspect of web
> frameworks; ease of use & readily re-usable 3rd party code figures
> much higher, IMO. Rather than constantly hammer on about performance,
> maybe you could take the time to explain any other advantages your
> framework provides.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
 		 	   		  

From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 07:56:49 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 07:56:49 -0400
Subject: Python on Windows
In-Reply-To: <63069c5e-2979-47db-828a-39570899452f@googlegroups.com>
References: <1pKdnT9EiNaO2ODNnZ2dnUVZ8rCdnZ2d@bt.com>
	<63069c5e-2979-47db-828a-39570899452f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJVEbbRqA94bN2vyep=M9t6TDpWVfNPeuSs3R+1QyFnswQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 7:35 AM, Marco Nawijn <nawijn at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:29:23 PM UTC+2, graham wrote:
>> Downloaded and installed Python 2.7.3 for windows (an XP machine).
>>
>>
>>
>> Entered the Python interactive interpreter/command line and typed the
>>
>> following:
>>
>>
>>
>>       >>>import feedparser
>>
>>
>>
>> and I get the error message "No module named feedparser".
>>
>>

Did you install it into the site-packages directory? Or did you cd to
the directory it's in, and launch, or place it into the directory
you're trying to launch it from?
>>


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Oct 16 08:16:10 2012
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 14:16:10 +0200
Subject: Providing a Python wrapper to a C++ type.
In-Reply-To: <d2c77c2a-21de-4f39-8c10-d1b44fdf23d7@googlegroups.com>
References: <b71bb1ac-cfe0-45eb-a384-4d6109c99543@googlegroups.com>
	<0423426c-c19a-4634-9f67-5bf92d766f61@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2263.1350387583.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<d2c77c2a-21de-4f39-8c10-d1b44fdf23d7@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k5jj68$c11$1@ger.gmane.org>

Marco Nawijn, 16.10.2012 13:46:
> I never worked with Cython (but I know it is very powerful and
> interesting) but in my mind there are slight differences in usage
> scenario between e.g. Boost Python and Cython. For me the idea of Cython
> is that your main code is in Python

Normally, yes. You can embed Cython code in C++ just like any other C code
(with the caveat of needing to make sure the Python runtime is properly set
up), but that certainly isn't the most popular use case.


> but you want to improve the
> performance of specific parts of the code. In that case, Cython is the
> way to go. In case of Boost Python, the scenario for me is that you have
> a main program/library in C++, but you want to be able use the
> functionality from Python.

That's really just a slight difference. What kind of code initially started
up an application is quite irrelevant once it has been running for a while.
The distinction between embedding and extending, as the Python docs put it,
is actually quite fuzzy when it comes to the actual code interaction.

Note also that this isn't the use case here, the OP asked for wrapping a
C++ type for use in Python.

Stefan



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 08:20:24 2012
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 13:20:24 +0100
Subject: [on topic] Re: readline trick needed
In-Reply-To: <507d44a9$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2255.1350376172.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507d44a9$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <k5jje8$ell$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/16/12 12:27 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 10:30:01 +0200, Peter Otten wrote:
>
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>>> I'm working with the readline module, and I'm trying to set a key
>>> combination to process the current command line by calling a known
>>> function, *and* enter the command line.
>>>
>>> Something along the lines of:
>>>
>>> * execute function spam() in some context where it can access
>>>    the current command line as a string
>>> * enter the command line
>>>
>>> Function spam() may or may not modify the command line.
>>
>>> (P.S. I'm aware of IPython, I want to get this working in the standard
>>> CPython interpreter.)
>>
>> If IPython does what you want why don't you have a look at the source?
>
> Well, I was hoping for a pure Python solution, rather than having to
> troll through who knows how many thousands of lines of code in a language
> I can barely read.

Are you confusing IPython, the pure Python REPL for CPython, for IronPython, the 
C# implementation of Python?

   https://github.com/ipython/ipython

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From sanal.vikram at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 08:29:00 2012
From: sanal.vikram at gmail.com (Gaudha)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 05:29:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Accessing variables in __init__.py
In-Reply-To: <b96f1a07-b147-4d22-a87a-9f0aea7993d5@googlegroups.com>
References: <d302fa06-f480-450a-83c5-ad7768dc846c@googlegroups.com>
	<b96f1a07-b147-4d22-a87a-9f0aea7993d5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <92021227-e06b-4562-ad03-49ff62dc364f@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 3:41:55 PM UTC+5:30, Marco Nawijn wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 10:48:17 AM UTC+2, Gaudha wrote:
> 
> > my_package/
> 
> > 
> 
> >   __init__.py
> 
> > 
> 
> >   my_module1.py
> 
> > 
> 
> >   my_module2.py
> 
> > 
> 
> >   variables.py
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > I want to define common variables in __init__.py and use the namespace in my_module1.py or my_module2.py. Defining it is not a problem. How can call it from my modules?
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > If I define them in a module (say, variables.py), I can call them by importing variables.py in other modules. How can it be done if I define it in __init__.py?
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > It may be a silly query as I am newbie in Python. But, I would be grateful to get help.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> If you store the variables in __init__.py, you can import them from the package. So in your case suppose __init__.py contains:
> 
> a = 10
> 
> b = {1 :"Hello", 2: "World" }
> 
> 
> 
> Than if you import my_package, you can access the variables as follows (interactive IPython session):
> 
> 
> 
> In [1]: import my_package
> 
> 
> 
> In [2]: my_pack
> 
> my_package   my_package/  
> 
> 
> 
> In [2]: my_package.
> 
> my_package.a  my_package.b  
> 
> 
> 
> In [2]: my_package.a
> 
> Out[2]: 10
> 
> 
> 
> In [3]: my_package.b
> 
> Out[3]: {1: 'Hello', 2: 'World'}
> 
> 
> 
> In [4]:

Yea. I got it. It was a new information for me. A module in a package can import its own mother package to call the variables in __init__.

Is it funny or an extraordinary feature? Anyway. I felt it as something weird. Guido should have done it something like how 'self' behaves in classes.


From amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 08:43:12 2012
From: amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com (Amirouche Boubekki)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 14:43:12 +0200
Subject: ANN: python-blueprints, printemps and printemps client
Message-ID: <CAL7_Mo-MgiJaDkxVmtdH_gOG1pjd2YxigQAh9_mLEhoGvWZ6ag@mail.gmail.com>

H?llo,


I'm happy to announce about projects related to graph databases, Neo4j and
OrientDB and Python:

- python-blueprints is a Python bindings of Tinkerpop's
Blueprints<https://github.com/tinkerpop/blueprints/wiki>library that
allow you to access and query a graph database directly from
Python. The API is very small you can be ready to take over the world in a
matter of minutes
[documentation<http://python-blueprints.readthedocs.org/en/latest/>
][forge <https://github.com/Printemps/python-blueprints>]

- printemps-client with its compagnon server printemps allow you to query
remotly a graph database using only Python functions, if you know
python-blueprints, you will be up and running in less than 5 minutes!
checkout the documentation<http://printemps-client.readthedocs.org/en/latest/>and
the
code <https://github.com/Printemps/printemps>.

The intention of the announcement is (1) I thought others may find it useful,
and (2) to get feedback. So, please let me know what you think.


Amirouche
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Oct 16 08:52:05 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Oct 2012 12:52:05 GMT
Subject: [on topic] Re: readline trick needed
References: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2255.1350376172.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507d44a9$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2269.1350390037.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <507d5875$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 13:20:24 +0100, Robert Kern wrote:

> On 10/16/12 12:27 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

>> Well, I was hoping for a pure Python solution, rather than having to
>> troll through who knows how many thousands of lines of code in a
>> language I can barely read.
> 
> Are you confusing IPython, the pure Python REPL for CPython, 

IPython is pure Python?

Well, you learn something new everyday. Or at least I do.

I guess that means that I can look forward to trolling through 250 or so 
Python modules instead of C code :)


Thanks to everyone who replied.


-- 
Steven


From bagratte at live.com  Tue Oct 16 09:06:40 2012
From: bagratte at live.com (bagratte)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 06:06:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: using message loop for hotkey capturing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1091.1269363686.23598.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1091.1269363686.23598.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c99d974c-01a3-473b-8eaf-1bc356808434@googlegroups.com>

hi all,

i am a complete newbie in windows programming and have come across this problem. i wanted a windows systray application which would seat in the notification are, would have a tiny popup menu and would also respond to a global hotkey. i've assembled something out of the demos in pywin32 which actually works except one thing: i don't like it. i am registering the hotkey within the window class constructor. something like this:

imports...
...

class MainWindow():
    def __init__(self):
        ...
        user32.RegisterHotKey(None, 1, win32con.MOD_CONTROL, ord('A'))

        message_map = {win32con.WM_DESTROY: self.OnDestroy,
                       win32con.WM_COMMAND: self.OnCommand,
                       win32con.WM_USER+20: self.OnTaskbarNotify,
                       win32con.WM_HOTKEY: self.OnHotKey}
        ...

    def OnCommand(self, hwnd, msg, wparam, lparam):
        print "OnCommand"

    def OnHotKey(self):
        print "OnHotkey"

    def OnDestroy(self, hwnd, msg, wparam, lparam):
        user32.UnregisterHotKey(None, 1)
        ...

    ...

def myLoop():
    msg = wintypes.MSG()
    while user32.GetMessageA(byref(msg), None, 0, 0) != 0:
        if msg.message == win32con.WM_HOTKEY:
            w.OnHotKey()
        user32.TranslateMessage(byref(msg))
        user32.DispatchMessageA(byref(msg))

w = MainWindow()
#PumpMessages()
myLoop()



now, if i use myLoop(), which is ripped from tim golden's "home-grown-loop", everything works. however, if i use PumpMessages(), the program won't respond to WM_HOTKEY, and it won't respond to WM_COMMAND (it will respond to WM_USER+20).
i was wondering if what i've done is not a ridiculously wrong way to do it. in other words, is there any way to make the window respond to WM_HOTKEY thus working with PumpMessages()?

i thank you all for your patience (this is my first ever windows programming experience).


From bagratte at live.com  Tue Oct 16 09:06:40 2012
From: bagratte at live.com (bagratte)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 06:06:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: using message loop for hotkey capturing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1091.1269363686.23598.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1091.1269363686.23598.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c99d974c-01a3-473b-8eaf-1bc356808434@googlegroups.com>

hi all,

i am a complete newbie in windows programming and have come across this problem. i wanted a windows systray application which would seat in the notification are, would have a tiny popup menu and would also respond to a global hotkey. i've assembled something out of the demos in pywin32 which actually works except one thing: i don't like it. i am registering the hotkey within the window class constructor. something like this:

imports...
...

class MainWindow():
    def __init__(self):
        ...
        user32.RegisterHotKey(None, 1, win32con.MOD_CONTROL, ord('A'))

        message_map = {win32con.WM_DESTROY: self.OnDestroy,
                       win32con.WM_COMMAND: self.OnCommand,
                       win32con.WM_USER+20: self.OnTaskbarNotify,
                       win32con.WM_HOTKEY: self.OnHotKey}
        ...

    def OnCommand(self, hwnd, msg, wparam, lparam):
        print "OnCommand"

    def OnHotKey(self):
        print "OnHotkey"

    def OnDestroy(self, hwnd, msg, wparam, lparam):
        user32.UnregisterHotKey(None, 1)
        ...

    ...

def myLoop():
    msg = wintypes.MSG()
    while user32.GetMessageA(byref(msg), None, 0, 0) != 0:
        if msg.message == win32con.WM_HOTKEY:
            w.OnHotKey()
        user32.TranslateMessage(byref(msg))
        user32.DispatchMessageA(byref(msg))

w = MainWindow()
#PumpMessages()
myLoop()



now, if i use myLoop(), which is ripped from tim golden's "home-grown-loop", everything works. however, if i use PumpMessages(), the program won't respond to WM_HOTKEY, and it won't respond to WM_COMMAND (it will respond to WM_USER+20).
i was wondering if what i've done is not a ridiculously wrong way to do it. in other words, is there any way to make the window respond to WM_HOTKEY thus working with PumpMessages()?

i thank you all for your patience (this is my first ever windows programming experience).


From versae at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 09:28:55 2012
From: versae at gmail.com (Javier de la Rosa)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:28:55 -0400
Subject: [Neo4j] ANN: python-blueprints, printemps and printemps client
In-Reply-To: <CAL7_Mo-MgiJaDkxVmtdH_gOG1pjd2YxigQAh9_mLEhoGvWZ6ag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL7_Mo-MgiJaDkxVmtdH_gOG1pjd2YxigQAh9_mLEhoGvWZ6ag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALZ64-5FrH+54o+MLHrpMBEXpFSiCcxwgk9Ca26CFTwezqHTBw@mail.gmail.com>

Do you need Java [1] to run any of them? There is another alternative
called pyblueprints [2] through REST interface.



[1] http://pyjnius.readthedocs.org/en/latest/installation.html#installation
[2] https://github.com/escalant3/pyblueprints

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:43 AM, Amirouche Boubekki
<amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com> wrote:
> H?llo,
>
>
> I'm happy to announce about projects related to graph databases, Neo4j and
> OrientDB and Python:
>
> - python-blueprints is a Python bindings of Tinkerpop's Blueprints library
> that allow you to access and query a graph database directly from Python.
> The API is very small you can be ready to take over the world in a matter of
> minutes [documentation][forge]
>
> - printemps-client with its compagnon server printemps allow you to query
> remotly a graph database using only Python functions, if you know
> python-blueprints, you will be up and running in less than 5 minutes!
> checkout the documentation and the code.
>
> The intention of the announcement is (1) I thought others may find it
> useful, and (2) to get feedback. So, please let me know what you think.
>
>
> Amirouche
>
> --
>
>



-- 
Javier de la Rosa
http://versae.es


From giuseppecostanzi at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 09:41:58 2012
From: giuseppecostanzi at gmail.com (Beppe)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 06:41:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: cx_Oracle clause IN using a variable
Message-ID: <013921b2-122e-4169-bb09-8973e0f07ec1@googlegroups.com>

Hi all,
I don't know if it is the correct place to set this question, however,
I'm using cx_Oracle to query an Oracle database.
I've a problem to use the IN clause with a variable.
My statement is 

sql = "SELECT field1,field2,field3
        FROM my_table
        WHERE field_3 IN (:arg_1)"

where arg_1 is retrive by a dictionary
that is build so

 my_dict = {'location':"X",
            'oracle_user':'user',
            'oracle_password':'pass',
            'dsn':'dsn',
            'mailto':'someone at somewhere.org',
            'codes':"CNI,CNP"}

args = (dict['codes'],)
           
 
con = cx_Oracle.connect(my_dict["oracle_user"],
                         my_dict["oracle_password"],
                         my_dict["dsn"])
                         
cur = con.cursor()
cur.execute(sql,args)
rs =  cur.fetchall()           

but it doesn't work in the sense that doesn't return anything

If i use the statment without variable 

SELECT field1,field2,field3
FROM my_table
WHERE field_3 IN ('CNI','CNP')

the query works

what is wrong?
suggestions?

regards
beppe


From tinnews at isbd.co.uk  Tue Oct 16 09:44:54 2012
From: tinnews at isbd.co.uk (tinnews at isbd.co.uk)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 14:44:54 +0100
Subject: What's the tidy/elegant way to protect this against null/empty
	parameters?
References: <1b8tk9-un9.ln1@chris.zbmc.eu>
	<119b3721-9d4f-4394-abd4-1ec19c0e5676@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mv40l9-isr.ln1@chris.zbmc.eu>

Marco Nawijn <nawijn at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, October 15, 2012 1:33:02 PM UTC+2, (unknown) wrote:
> > I want to fix an error in some code I have installed, however I don't
> > 
> > really want to just bodge it.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The function producing the error is:-
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >     def get_text(self, idx):               # override !
> > 
> >         node = self.items[idx]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >         a= [
> > 
> >             ", ".join(node.tags),
> > 
> >             node.comment,
> > 
> >             node.folderName,
> > 
> >             cd2rd(node.date),
> > 
> >             node.name,
> > 
> >             '[' + self.rating_stars[node.rating] + ']'
> > 
> >             ] [self.select]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >         return a
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The error occurs when node[] (or at least its members) turn out to be
> > 
> > empty, you get a Traceback that ends with:-
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   File "/usr/lib/jbrout/jbrout/listview.py", line 608, in draw_cell layout.set_text(self.get_text(thumbnail_num))
> > 
> >   File "/usr/lib/jbrout/jbrout.py", line 325, in get_text ", ".join(node.tags),
> > 
> >   TypeError: sequence item 0: expected string, NoneType found
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Now its *probably* something higher up the tree causing the problem
> > 
> > (it's only one particular image in 20 thousand or so that breaks
> > 
> > things) but I really want to just get things working.  So, what's the
> > 
> > neatest way to protect the get_text() method from empty data?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > 
> > Chris Green
> Hi,
> 
> Instead of protecting against empty data, you could just catch the exception, issue a warning and return a default "error" node which is valid. So something like (not tested):
> 
> def get_text(self, idx):               # override ! 
>         node = self.items[idx] 
> 
>         error_a = "A valid, but erroneous representation of a"
>         
>         try:
>             a= [ 
>                 ", ".join(node.tags), 
>                 node.comment, 
>                 node.folderName, 
>                 cd2rd(node.date), 
>                 node.name, 
>                 '[' + self.rating_stars[node.rating] + ']' 
>                 ] [self.select] 
>         except TypeError:
>               print 'Oops, something went wrong'
>               a = error_a
>         # You should always have a valid a here (or another exception has  occured)
>         return a 

That sounds like a reasonable approach, thank you (and all the other ideas).

-- 
Chris Green


From pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com  Tue Oct 16 09:51:46 2012
From: pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com (Pradipto Banerjee)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 08:51:46 -0500
Subject: overriding equals operation
Message-ID: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23DFDFB43@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>

I am trying to define class, where if I use a statement a = b, then instead of "a" pointing to the same instance as "b", it should point to a copy of "b", but I can't get it right.

Currently, I have the following:

----

class myclass(object):
        def __init__(self, name='')
                self.name = name

        def copy(self):
                newvar = myclass(self.name)
                return newvar

        def __eq__(self, other):
                if instance(other, myclass):
                        return self == other.copy()
                return NotImplemented
----

Now if I try:

>>> a=myclass()
>>> a.name = 'test'
>>> b=a
>>> b.name
'test'
>>> b.name = 'test2'
>>> a.name
'test2'

I wanted b=a to make a new copy of "a", but then when I assigned b.name = 'test2', even a.name became 'test2'.

How can I rectify my code to make the __eq__() behave like copy()?

Thanks


 This communication is for informational purposes only. It is not intended to be, nor should it be construed or used as, financial, legal, tax or investment advice or an offer to sell, or a solicitation of any offer to buy, an interest in any fund advised by Ada Investment Management LP, the Investment advisor.  Any offer or solicitation of an investment in any of the Funds may be made only by delivery of such Funds confidential offering materials to authorized prospective investors.  An investment in any of the Funds is not suitable for all investors.  No representation is made that the Funds will or are likely to achieve their objectives, or that any investor will or is likely to achieve results comparable to those shown, or will make any profit at all or will be able to avoid incurring substantial losses.  Performance results are net of applicable fees, are unaudited and reflect reinvestment of income and profits.  Past performance is no guarantee of future results. All financial data and other information are not warranted as to completeness or accuracy and are subject to change without notice.

Any comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect those of Ada Investment Management LP and its affiliates. This transmission may contain information that is confidential, legally privileged, and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is strictly prohibited. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format.


From nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de  Tue Oct 16 10:07:04 2012
From: nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de (Thomas Rachel)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 16:07:04 +0200
Subject: overriding equals operation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2273.1350395930.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2273.1350395930.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k5jpme$uoa$1@r03.glglgl.gl>

Am 16.10.2012 15:51 schrieb Pradipto Banerjee:

> I am trying to define class, where if I use a statement a = b, then instead of "a" pointing to the same instance as "b", it should point to a copy of "b", but I can't get it right.

This is not possible.


> Currently, I have the following:
>
> ----
>
> class myclass(object):

Myclass or MyClass, see http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/.

>          def __eq__(self, other):
>                  if instance(other, myclass):
>                          return self == other.copy()
>                  return NotImplemented

This redefines the == operator, not the = operator.

It is not possible to redefine =.

One way could be to override assignment of a class attribute. But this 
won't be enough, I think.

Let me explain:

class MyContainer(object):
     @property
     def content(self):
         return self._content
     @content.setter
     def content(self, new):
         self._content = new.copy()

Then you can do:

a = MyClass()
b = MyContainer()
b.content = a
print b.content is a # should print False; untested...

But something like

a = MyClass()
b = a

will always lead to "b is a".

> This communication is for informational purposes only. It is not
> intended to be, nor should it be construed or used as, financial,
> legal, tax or investment advice or an offer to sell, or a
> solicitation of any offer to buy, an interest in any fund advised by
> Ada Investment Management LP, the Investment advisor.

What?


Thomas


From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 10:08:46 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 07:08:46 -0700
Subject: Fastest web framework
In-Reply-To: <DUB117-W741B72171E7BBFB4B07D7791700@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB117-W80EE2285B5E415AA14B5B9919F0@phx.gbl>
	<mailman.2203.1350308439.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b51748d-0517-4b1d-a0a6-e8fa06dd4b68@r10g2000pbd.googlegroups.com>
	<DUB117-W741B72171E7BBFB4B07D7791700@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAE+T62Z7mbRcuhnWJcYQCL5SOQDQou8o6SSR7Hkx+KRj8eyBEg@mail.gmail.com>

Let me say right off the bat that I've taken a brief look through the
code and documentation and found that I wouldn't mind trying it out
for personal projects. So, the intention here is not to slag the
framework.

> Performance and effectivity are related metrics. Longer feature list can not explain why it less effective. An answer to effectivity question might be related to:
> - code quality (we have PEP8)

Any static code analysis such as pylint or pyflakes?

> - architectural decisions taken

What (sample of) decisions? How do they differ from other frameworks?
How will they make my life better?

> - core team experience

Not sure this is entirely relevant (imho). Engineers with great
experience on paper may still make poor decisions and output shoddy
work. Conversely, a new grad (or weekend hacker) may have a solid
understanding and output amazing work.

> - historical path, etc.

What does this mean?

> There is a problem with 3rd party code... it should evolve with framework... so good one become a part of it. 3rd party UI things are good, until you start `customize` them, patch, workaround, etc. This is where pain come from. However, there are exceptions. Can you name few?

[Disclaimer: personal opinion] I couldn't disagree more. A good
framework provides the glue for various subsystems to work amazingly
well together. Perhaps this is why I'm drawn to micro-frameworks and
the likes of Pyramid. No assumptions are made about *how* I'm going to
use the framework. Modularity is good. Do one thing and do it *very*
well. Caching? Use beaker. ORM? Use SQLAlchemy.

> Let me state this: "wheezy.web let you design web application to be able run it at the speed of `hello world`, even database driven one".

This bothers me. It's misleading to newbies and it's just wrong. You
simply *cannot* have a database driven application run at the exact
same performance as a "hello world" app.


From d at davea.name  Tue Oct 16 10:09:21 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 10:09:21 -0400
Subject: overriding equals operation
In-Reply-To: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23DFDFB43@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23DFDFB43@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
Message-ID: <507D6A91.7010702@davea.name>

On 10/16/2012 09:51 AM, Pradipto Banerjee wrote:
> I am trying to define class, where if I use a statement a = b, then instead of "a" pointing to the same instance as "b", it should point to a copy of "b", but I can't get it right.
>
>

The __eq__ method is called for equals comparison, like
      if myinst == otherobj:

There are no hooks for the binding operator (=)




-- 

DaveA



From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 10:14:54 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 10:14:54 -0400
Subject: [on topic] Re: readline trick needed
In-Reply-To: <507d44a9$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2255.1350376172.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507d44a9$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJVKCunZ65jfCxsSGWe7HotfM2LYipuK54FkNp77aitD+w@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 7:27 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 10:30:01 +0200, Peter Otten wrote:
>
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>>> I'm working with the readline module, and I'm trying to set a key
>>> combination to process the current command line by calling a known
>>> function, *and* enter the command line.
>>>
>>> Something along the lines of:
>>>
>>> * execute function spam() in some context where it can access
>>>   the current command line as a string
>>> * enter the command line
>>>

I'm working on the dictionary now,but I came up with this, which uses
a list as the key, and accepts the params to perform the function:

import subprocess as sub
key_list = ['print_something','espeak']

def print_something(params):
	print "%s" % (params)

def espeak(params):
	sub.call(['espeak','%s' % (params)])

key = raw_input("Please enter key: ")

for line in key_list:
	if str(line) == key:
		params = raw_input("Enter Params: ")
		eval("%s('%s')" % (key,params))


I keep getting the function performed in the dict. I'll figure it out
eventually, I know I've done it before, and it might be a lambda
solution...not sure.

But the above could be refined more, it just uses a list, and key/params.


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct 16 10:36:56 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 16:36:56 +0200
Subject: [off topic], was Re: [on topic] Re: readline trick needed
References: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2255.1350376172.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507d44a9$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CA+vVgJVKCunZ65jfCxsSGWe7HotfM2LYipuK54FkNp77aitD+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5jrci$qp0$1@ger.gmane.org>

Dwight Hutto wrote:

I knew I'd eventually regret putting "on topic" into the subject...

Well done, Dwight. 



From andriy.kornatskyy at live.com  Tue Oct 16 10:47:00 2012
From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com (Andriy Kornatskyy)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 17:47:00 +0300
Subject: Fastest web framework
In-Reply-To: <CAE+T62Z7mbRcuhnWJcYQCL5SOQDQou8o6SSR7Hkx+KRj8eyBEg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DUB117-W80EE2285B5E415AA14B5B9919F0@phx.gbl>,
	<mailman.2203.1350308439.27098.python-list@python.org>,
	<8b51748d-0517-4b1d-a0a6-e8fa06dd4b68@r10g2000pbd.googlegroups.com>,
	<DUB117-W741B72171E7BBFB4B07D7791700@phx.gbl>,
	<CAE+T62Z7mbRcuhnWJcYQCL5SOQDQou8o6SSR7Hkx+KRj8eyBEg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DUB117-W27EF5EE49EA42A6CE186E791700@phx.gbl>


Demian,

Thank you, I appreciate your input. See below.

> > Performance and effectivity are related metrics. Longer 
feature list can not explain why it less effective. An answer to 
effectivity question might be related to:
> > - code quality (we have PEP8)
>
> Any static code analysis such as pylint or pyflakes?

Yep, good start with any of those.

> > - architectural decisions taken
>
> What (sample of) decisions? How do they differ from other frameworks?
> How will they make my life better?

The initial decisions taken while building a project might be wrong. Due to continues backward compatibility, you can not change them even you wish. Some projects die and same people start a new one, rethinking mistakes made.

> > - core team experience
>
> Not sure this is entirely relevant (imho). Engineers with great
> experience on paper may still make poor decisions and output shoddy
> work. Conversely, a new grad (or weekend hacker) may have a solid
> understanding and output amazing work.

The question is about the practical things you do daily. You might laugh of your first project, you continue to move forward and got respect as it is now. Imagine you continue to fix your first program up to now, you will probably write is somewhat differently. Same applies to frameworks, pursue effectiveness for more: users served, application hosted, etc. Some, just can not.

> > - historical path, etc.
>
> What does this mean?

The frameworks are not written in one day, they have historical path with many hands on it. This change it, not always right way.

>
 > There is a problem with 3rd party code... it should evolve with 
framework... so good one become a part of it. 3rd party UI things are 
good, until you start `customize` them, patch, workaround, etc. This is 
where pain come from. However, there are exceptions. Can you name few?
>
> [Disclaimer: personal opinion] I couldn't disagree more. A good
> framework provides the glue for various subsystems to work amazingly
> well together. Perhaps this is why I'm drawn to micro-frameworks and
> the likes of Pyramid. No assumptions are made about *how* I'm going to
> use the framework. Modularity is good. Do one thing and do it *very*
> well. Caching? Use beaker. ORM? Use SQLAlchemy.

That glue is usability case: recommendation how to use it with one or the other.

>
 > Let me state this: "wheezy.web let you design web application to 
be able run it at the speed of `hello world`, even database driven one".
>
> This bothers me. It's misleading to newbies and it's just wrong. You
> simply *cannot* have a database driven application run at the exact
> same performance as a "hello world" app.

For you, personally, let me point this again. N.P.

Here is how: use content caching with cache dependency. Read more:
http://packages.python.org/wheezy.http/userguide.html#content-cache
?
Thanks.

Andriy Kornatskyy
 		 	   		  

From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 10:54:56 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 07:54:56 -0700
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <507D7540.9010303@gmail.com>

On 10/15/2012 9:05 PM, Dwight Hutto wrote:
> Like a lot of people here, I'm trying to build a web development business.
> I'm starting off by building a profile on a freelance site.
>
> I would like some honest opinions(don't be too harsh), about my approach.
> I'm looking for a team effort to analyze my marketability.
>
> This is just my prototype freelance portfolio:
>
> https://www.odesk.com/users/~01710ac049863018eb
>

I'm not sure whether or not this is a troll, but I'll bite.

If you're going to ask for people's opinions on your work, I would try 
to keep the negativity in a list to zero. I'm relatively new to this 
list and the tirades that you've gone on have been childish at best. 
Doing that and then turning around and asking for useful feedback (if 
you're genuinely looking for it) is not going to yield much.

Now that that's over..

I couldn't get to your oDesk profile, got an empty page. That *could* be 
caused by the dead zones that I'm hitting atm, but I gave up after a few 
tries.

I then went to your website and here's what I can see from a glance. 
This isn't meant to be harsh or slag you personally, but learn what 
you're doing before you attempt to create a company to help others. If 
you *do* know what you're doing, use your site to showcase that. Nobody 
will hire someone with a business site like your current site:

* You have a bloated, 50+MB gif serving your page contents. That's just 
bad for obvious reasons.
* There's no DOCTYPE declaration in your HTML.
* You have <div>s mixed in pre-<body>
* You don't have a <head> container
* You have embedded music. Not only is this a bad design choice from a 
UX perspective, but it's also causing the client to load more.
* You have *no* SEO
* You have commented out HTML
* You don't have any design sense (not a personal attack, I don't have 
any either).

My suggestions:
* Take courses (free or paid) on web development. Udacity has a few good 
ones.
* Apply your learnings to your site. Showcase what you can do and what 
you know and what you can do.
* Look for a designer partner, someone who can make your work visually 
appealing. The visuals are the first impression (after initial load times).


Now having said all of that, if this is a troll, I feel rather foolish.


From pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com  Tue Oct 16 11:00:07 2012
From: pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com (Pradipto Banerjee)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 10:00:07 -0500
Subject: fastest data / database format for reading large files
Message-ID: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23DFDFBAF@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>

I am working with a series of large files with sizes 4 to 10GB and may need to read these files repeated. What data format (i.e. pickle, json, csv, etc.) is considered the fastest for reading via python?

Thanks

________________________________
This communication is for informational purposes only. It is not intended to be, nor should it be construed or used as, financial, legal, tax or investment advice or an offer to sell, or a solicitation of any offer to buy, an interest in any fund advised by Ada Investment Management LP, the Investment advisor. Any offer or solicitation of an investment in any of the Funds may be made only by delivery of such Funds confidential offering materials to authorized prospective investors. An investment in any of the Funds is not suitable for all investors. No representation is made that the Funds will or are likely to achieve their objectives, or that any investor will or is likely to achieve results comparable to those shown, or will make any profit at all or will be able to avoid incurring substantial losses. Performance results are net of applicable fees, are unaudited and reflect reinvestment of income and profits. Past performance is no guarantee of future results. All financial data and other information are not warranted as to completeness or accuracy and are subject to change without notice.

Any comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect those of Ada Investment Management LP and its affiliates. This transmission may contain information that is confidential, legally privileged, and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is strictly prohibited. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format.
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From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 11:01:11 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 08:01:11 -0700
Subject: Which book is the best?
In-Reply-To: <CAG2kGtKbuO4+rk8xw6yVaUHaoax4c1z3UXHbzm4wX+3_8Dx7mA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG2kGtKbuO4+rk8xw6yVaUHaoax4c1z3UXHbzm4wX+3_8Dx7mA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <507D76B7.9090909@gmail.com>

On 10/15/2012 9:27 PM, ?? wrote:
> I have strong c++ development experience.  But now I want to study the
> python to do some windows setting task, such as editing file, changing
> the system setting, doing some network processing.  Please help me which
> book is the best?
> Thanks.
>
>

If you're already a seasoned developer, nothing beats the official 
Python docs (http://python.org/doc/). I find most books to be filled 
with unnecessary narratives. The Python documentation is relatively 
terse and very well organized. As such, it'll get you off to the races 
in no time.

One of the many beautiful things about Python is the interactive help:

$python
 >>> import re
 >>> help(re)

You may also want to take a read through this:

$python
 >>> import this



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Oct 16 11:13:01 2012
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 17:13:01 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <507D7540.9010303@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <988533988.834634.1350400381609.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>

----- Original Message -----

[snip a link to a 1980's personal gif based homepage]

> Now having said all of that, if this is a troll, I feel rather
> foolish.

Search deep inside your heart, and you'll realize you already know the answer to that question :o)

JM


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 11:14:11 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 11:14:11 -0400
Subject: [off topic], was Re: [on topic] Re: readline trick needed
In-Reply-To: <k5jrci$qp0$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2255.1350376172.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507d44a9$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CA+vVgJVKCunZ65jfCxsSGWe7HotfM2LYipuK54FkNp77aitD+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<k5jrci$qp0$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJXWsAXcNOwKTh6r43hRZmvaodFp30WmM3ncfYzeoNb=yw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> Dwight Hutto wrote:
>
> I knew I'd eventually regret putting "on topic" into the subject...

I didn't write that. If you're referring to OT, it means Off Topic,
and a response would be appreciated. And you can call me David, I go
by my middle name.
>
> Well done, Dwight.
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 11:21:54 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 08:21:54 -0700
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <988533988.834634.1350400381609.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
References: <988533988.834634.1350400381609.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <507D7B92.9070704@gmail.com>

On 10/16/2012 8:13 AM, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Search deep inside your heart, and you'll realize you already know the answer to that question :o)
>
> JM

There's a small light somewhere deep down that says maybe this is just 
someone quite misdirected. A brief search shows that he has multiple 
domains, all with the same type of design. I would be hard pressed to 
think that someone would go to that extent just to troll a list.

Meh, maybe it's my good nature :P


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 11:53:52 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 08:53:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT Questions
References: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2283.1350399311.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <72bb31d9-3ca9-4873-b287-74f91109e828@s9g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 16, 7:55?pm, Demian Brecht <demianbre... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure whether or not this is a troll, but I'll bite.

Do trolls exist any more than pixies, elves, gnomes, unicorns?
Trolling posts of course do... IOW:

> There's a small light somewhere deep down that says maybe this is just
> someone quite misdirected.

means giving the benefit of doubt and seems to me to be good policy
(withing reasonable limits)


From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 12:07:14 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:07:14 -0700
Subject: Fastest web framework
In-Reply-To: <DUB117-W27EF5EE49EA42A6CE186E791700@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB117-W80EE2285B5E415AA14B5B9919F0@phx.gbl>,
	<mailman.2203.1350308439.27098.python-list@python.org>,
	<8b51748d-0517-4b1d-a0a6-e8fa06dd4b68@r10g2000pbd.googlegroups.com>,
	<DUB117-W741B72171E7BBFB4B07D7791700@phx.gbl>,
	<CAE+T62Z7mbRcuhnWJcYQCL5SOQDQou8o6SSR7Hkx+KRj8eyBEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<DUB117-W27EF5EE49EA42A6CE186E791700@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <507D8632.7040804@gmail.com>

On 10/16/2012 7:47 AM, Andriy Kornatskyy wrote:
I think that my first batch of questions were slightly out of context, 
mostly due to a lack of caffeine first thing in the morning. My 
understanding at the time was that your "an answer to effectivity" was, 
in fact, a list of highlights for wheezy.web (which is why I asked the 
questions I did). Having said that..

 > The initial decisions taken while building a project might be wrong. 
Due to continues backward compatibility, you can not change them even 
you wish.

You can always deprecate old functionality in favor of new solutions. 
I'd be hard pressed to find a reason to find a reason why something 
*can't* be deprecated. It may not be easy at times, but it should always 
be doable.

 > That glue is usability case: recommendation how to use it with one or 
the other.

As long as your framework doesn't require you to fight with it in order 
to use another solution. One of my early gripes with Django for example 
(ages ago) was that it felt like I had to fight the framework in order 
to introduce functionality that wasn't natively supported.

 > For you, personally, let me point this again. N.P.
 >
 > Here is how: use content caching with cache dependency. Read more:
 > http://packages.python.org/wheezy.http/userguide.html#content-cache

It doesn't matter if you're using cached content or not. It will *not* 
be as fast as a hard-coded, simple response (not that a static, 
hard-coded response is the way to go obviously). I don't think I have to 
get into the details about I/O. My point is simply that the statement 
that a database driven site (cached content or not), *can not* be as 
fast as a "hello world" app. My comment may be construed as being 
nit-picky, but I thought it was worth calling out due to the 
matter-of-fact wording that you used.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I caught a minor typo in the content-cache 
docs:

"Since there is no heavy processing and just simple operation to get an 
item from cache it should be supper fast"

I don't know about you, but my supper generally isn't fast ;)


From amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 12:23:30 2012
From: amirouche.boubekki at gmail.com (Amirouche Boubekki)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 18:23:30 +0200
Subject: [Neo4j] ANN: python-blueprints, printemps and printemps client
In-Reply-To: <CALZ64-5FrH+54o+MLHrpMBEXpFSiCcxwgk9Ca26CFTwezqHTBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL7_Mo-MgiJaDkxVmtdH_gOG1pjd2YxigQAh9_mLEhoGvWZ6ag@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALZ64-5FrH+54o+MLHrpMBEXpFSiCcxwgk9Ca26CFTwezqHTBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL7_Mo_o=Pj+CKxqFYF8CrHC6OfBbchTNwdDKmhnb9udWEU1hA@mail.gmail.com>

H?llo Javier,

2012/10/16 Javier de la Rosa <versae at gmail.com>

> Do you need Java [1] to run any of them? There is another alternative
> called pyblueprints [2] through REST interface.
>
> [1]
> http://pyjnius.readthedocs.org/en/latest/installation.html#installation
> [2] https://github.com/escalant3/pyblueprints


Yes it uses Java with Jnius <https://github.com/kivy/pyjnius> to make it
possible. Printemps makes it possible to have the a server and a client but
it's probably a better idea to use something like pyblueprints since there
is only one database thread.

Regards,

Amirouche
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From rurpy at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 16 12:27:48 2012
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:27:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>

On 10/14/2012 10:36 PM, alex23 wrote:> On Oct 15, 1:22 pm, ru... at yahoo.com wrote:
>> Thus when a member of this esteemed group
>> was recently attacked as racist, for punning another member's
>> name when responding somewhat heatedly,
> 
> Again, there is a difference between "attacking" someone "as racist"
> and *criticising* their *comments* as *possibly* racist. When the
> person whose name was being punned said that they themselves were
> unsure whether it was intended as a racial attack, then the behaviour
> was worth commenting on.

I just went back and reread what you and some others wrote
to make sure I was not misremembering and am comfortable 
sticking with my description.  (FTR, your initial response 
was "Please, don't be a dick.")

My intent was not to reargue that issue but to point out 
that different people have differing ideas on what is 
"acceptable" and "unacceptable" here and that if Ben 
Finney's advice to respond (in moderation) whenever one 
reads an "unacceptable" opinion is taken, one will create 
an environment in which troll's will flourish.

The best advise is to ignore such posts and encourage 
others to do the same.


From andriy.kornatskyy at live.com  Tue Oct 16 12:35:39 2012
From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com (Andriy Kornatskyy)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 19:35:39 +0300
Subject: Fastest web framework
In-Reply-To: <507D8632.7040804@gmail.com>
References: <DUB117-W80EE2285B5E415AA14B5B9919F0@phx.gbl>,
	<mailman.2203.1350308439.27098.python-list@python.org>,
	<8b51748d-0517-4b1d-a0a6-e8fa06dd4b68@r10g2000pbd.googlegroups.com>,
	<DUB117-W741B72171E7BBFB4B07D7791700@phx.gbl>,
	<CAE+T62Z7mbRcuhnWJcYQCL5SOQDQou8o6SSR7Hkx+KRj8eyBEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<DUB117-W27EF5EE49EA42A6CE186E791700@phx.gbl>,
	<507D8632.7040804@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DUB117-W446464A2642EF855B3AD8691700@phx.gbl>


Demian,

Thank you, see below.

> I think that my first batch of questions were slightly out of context,
> mostly due to a lack of caffeine first thing in the morning. My
> understanding at the time was that your "an answer to effectivity" was,
> in fact, a list of highlights for wheezy.web (which is why I asked the
> questions I did). Having said that..
>
> > The initial decisions taken while building a project might be wrong.
> Due to continues backward compatibility, you can not change them even
> you wish.
>
> You can always deprecate old functionality in favor of new solutions.
> I'd be hard pressed to find a reason to find a reason why something
> *can't* be deprecated. It may not be easy at times, but it should always
> be doable.

And that is the problem. Some can not deprecate and die (see pylons, now pyramid). Some can not die nor deprecate (see django).

> > That glue is usability case: recommendation how to use it with one or
> the other.
>
> As long as your framework doesn't require you to fight with it in order
> to use another solution. One of my early gripes with Django for example
> (ages ago) was that it felt like I had to fight the framework in order
> to introduce functionality that wasn't natively supported.
>
> > For you, personally, let me point this again. N.P.
> >
> > Here is how: use content caching with cache dependency. Read more:
> > http://packages.python.org/wheezy.http/userguide.html#content-cache
>
> It doesn't matter if you're using cached content or not. It will *not*
> be as fast as a hard-coded, simple response (not that a static,
> hard-coded response is the way to go obviously). I don't think I have to
> get into the details about I/O. My point is simply that the statement
> that a database driven site (cached content or not), *can not* be as
> fast as a "hello world" app. My comment may be construed as being
> nit-picky, but I thought it was worth calling out due to the
> matter-of-fact wording that you used.

It does. There is certain level after which performance of `hello world` will not differ from real world application. The hardware I used got that limit at 22-24K per second. That is why I made isolated benchmarks. See difference between wsgi sample and others.

http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/09/python-fastest-web-framework.html

> On a somewhat unrelated note, I caught a minor typo in the content-cache
> docs:
>
> "Since there is no heavy processing and just simple operation to get an
> item from cache it should be supper fast"
>
> I don't know about you, but my supper generally isn't fast ;)

You will see. Thanks. supper => super ;-)

Somewhat later in a week there will be another benchmark for... caching.

Take care.

Andriy
 		 	   		  

From driscoll at cs.wisc.edu  Tue Oct 16 12:42:44 2012
From: driscoll at cs.wisc.edu (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 11:42:44 -0500
Subject: Providing a Python wrapper to a C++ type.
In-Reply-To: <d2c77c2a-21de-4f39-8c10-d1b44fdf23d7@googlegroups.com>
References: <b71bb1ac-cfe0-45eb-a384-4d6109c99543@googlegroups.com>
	<0423426c-c19a-4634-9f67-5bf92d766f61@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2263.1350387583.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<d2c77c2a-21de-4f39-8c10-d1b44fdf23d7@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <507D8E84.8070608@cs.wisc.edu>

[Stefan gave part of an answer here, but I've got an addition too.]

On 10/16/2012 6:46 AM, Marco Nawijn wrote:
> I never worked with Cython (but I know it is very powerful and interesting) but in my mind there are slight differences in usage scenario between e.g. Boost Python and Cython. For me the idea of Cython is that your main code is in Python, but you want to improve the performance of specific parts of the code. In that case, Cython is the way to go. In case of Boost Python, the scenario for me is that you have a main program/library in C++, but you want to be able use the functionality from Python. 
> 
> Do you agree with this view?

Sort of, but sort of not. I've only used Cython a little bit, but it
seems to work equally well if you want to write a C module for some
reason (e.g. to interface with existing C code) but don't want to deal
with the standard CPython C API directly.

For instance, I used it to wrap the OS's opendir/readdir
(FindFirstFile/FindNextFile) functions: I just wrote a bit of code using
Cython's extensions, and I get a module I can import and use as normal.
I certainly didn't do it for speed, I did it because it seemed like a
reasonable way to get access to those APIs. (ctypes was insufficient for
my needs.)

So wrapping a C++ class using Cython also seems pretty natural to me,
assuming that Cython does OK with C++ and isn't restricted to C (which I
have no idea about).

Evan


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Oct 16 12:49:18 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Oct 2012 16:49:18 GMT
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:27:48 -0700, rurpy wrote about trolls and dicks:

> The best advise is to ignore such posts and encourage others to do the
> same.

If you ignore such posts, how will the poster know they are unacceptable?

How should somebody distinguish between "I am being shunned for acting 
like a dick", and "I have not received any responses because nobody has 
anything to add"?

If I believe that your behaviour ("giving lousy advice") is causing great 
harm to this community, and *I don't say anything*, how will you know to 
change your behaviour? How will others know that I do not agree with your 
advice?


-- 
Steven


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 13:04:21 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 11:04:21 -0600
Subject: cx_Oracle clause IN using a variable
In-Reply-To: <013921b2-122e-4169-bb09-8973e0f07ec1@googlegroups.com>
References: <013921b2-122e-4169-bb09-8973e0f07ec1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnpHGrdkJUpvi_B3dv27UUzrK3FQOAkvHZD=+-ATORhUQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 7:41 AM, Beppe <giuseppecostanzi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I don't know if it is the correct place to set this question, however,

The best place to ask questions about cx_Oracle would be the
cx-oracle-users mailing list.

> what is wrong?
> suggestions?

With the bind parameter you're only passing in a single string, so
your query is effectively equivalent to:

SELECT field1,field2,field3
FROM my_table
WHERE field_3 IN ('CNI,CNP')

You can't pass an actual list into a bind parameter the way that you
would like.  You need to use a separate parameter for each item in the
list.  This may mean constructing the query dynamically:

in_vars = ','.join(':%d' % i for i in xrange(len(sequence_of_args)))

sql = """
SELECT field1,field2,field3
FROM my_table
WHERE field_3 IN (%s)
""" % in_vars

cursor.execute(sql, sequence_of_args)


From hansmu at xs4all.nl  Tue Oct 16 13:22:43 2012
From: hansmu at xs4all.nl (Hans Mulder)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 19:22:43 +0200
Subject: cx_Oracle clause IN using a variable
In-Reply-To: <013921b2-122e-4169-bb09-8973e0f07ec1@googlegroups.com>
References: <013921b2-122e-4169-bb09-8973e0f07ec1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <507d97e5$0$6987$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 16/10/12 15:41:58, Beppe wrote:
> Hi all,
> I don't know if it is the correct place to set this question, however,
> I'm using cx_Oracle to query an Oracle database.
> I've a problem to use the IN clause with a variable.
> My statement is 
> 
> sql = "SELECT field1,field2,field3
>         FROM my_table
>         WHERE field_3 IN (:arg_1)"
> 
> where arg_1 is retrive by a dictionary
> that is build so
> 
>  my_dict = {'location':"X",
>             'oracle_user':'user',
>             'oracle_password':'pass',
>             'dsn':'dsn',
>             'mailto':'someone at somewhere.org',
>             'codes':"CNI,CNP"}
> 
> args = (dict['codes'],)
>            
>  
> con = cx_Oracle.connect(my_dict["oracle_user"],
>                          my_dict["oracle_password"],
>                          my_dict["dsn"])
>                          
> cur = con.cursor()
> cur.execute(sql,args)
> rs =  cur.fetchall()           
> 
> but it doesn't work in the sense that doesn't return anything
> 
> If i use the statment without variable 
> 
> SELECT field1,field2,field3
> FROM my_table
> WHERE field_3 IN ('CNI','CNP')
> 
> the query works
> 
> what is wrong?

You only have a single placeholder variable,
so your statement is equivalent to

SELECT field1,field2,field3
FROM my_table
WHERE field_3 IN ('CNI,CNP')

Presumably 'CNI,CNP' is not a valid value for field_3,
thus your query finds no records.

> suggestions?

To verify that you have the correct syntax, try it
with a single value first:

my_dict = {'location':"X",
            'oracle_user':'user',
            'oracle_password':'pass',
            'dsn':'dsn',
            'mailto':'someone at somewhere.org',
            'codes':"CNI"}

It that produces some of the records you want, then the
question is really: can you somehow pass a list of values
via a single placeholder variable?

I'm, not a cx_Oracle expert, but I think the answer is "no".


If you want to pass exactly two values, then the work-around
would be to pass them in separate variables:

my_dict = {'location':"X",
            'oracle_user':'user',
            'oracle_password':'pass',
            'dsn':'dsn',
            'mailto':'someone at somewhere.org',
            'code1':"CNI",
            'code2':"CNP"}

sql = """SELECT field1,field2,field3
         FROM my_table
         WHERE field_3 IN (:arg_1, :arg_2)"""
args = (my_dict['code1'],my_dict['code2'])


If the number of codes can vary, you'll have to generate a
query with the correct number of placholders in it.  Mabye
something like this (untested):

my_dict = {'location':"X",
            'oracle_user':'user',
            'oracle_password':'pass',
            'dsn':'dsn',
            'mailto':'someone at somewhere.org',
            'codes':"Ornhgvshy,vf,orggre,guna,htyl"}


args = my_dict['codes'].split(",")
placeholders = ','.join(":x%d" % i for i,_ in enumerate(args))

sql = """SELECT field1,field2,field3
         FROM my_table
         WHERE field_3 IN (%s)""" % placeholders

con = cx_Oracle.connect(my_dict["oracle_user"],
                         my_dict["oracle_password"],
                         my_dict["dsn"])

cur = con.cursor()
cur.execute(sql,args)
rs =  cur.fetchall()


Hope this helps,

-- HansM


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 13:23:09 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 11:23:09 -0600
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <507D7B92.9070704@gmail.com>
References: <988533988.834634.1350400381609.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<507D7B92.9070704@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=RNzAuqJq9Z1crwFBA3iwRZX4RwuqFUQYfEuXEzDv-HA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 9:21 AM, Demian Brecht <demianbrecht at gmail.com> wrote:
> There's a small light somewhere deep down that says maybe this is just
> someone quite misdirected. A brief search shows that he has multiple
> domains, all with the same type of design. I would be hard pressed to think
> that someone would go to that extent just to troll a list.
>
> Meh, maybe it's my good nature :P

My theory for a while now has been that Mr. Hutto is probably an
enterprising teenager.  His desire to build a web development company
is sincere and should be encouraged, but his lack of experience is
readily apparent, as is his rather crude behavior on list.


From nobody at nowhere.com  Tue Oct 16 13:31:45 2012
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 18:31:45 +0100
Subject: overriding equals operation
References: <mailman.2273.1350395930.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2012.10.16.17.31.46.151000@nowhere.com>

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 08:51:46 -0500, Pradipto Banerjee wrote:

> I am trying to define class, where if I use a statement a = b, then
> instead of "a" pointing to the same instance as "b", it should point to a
> copy of "b", but I can't get it right.

It cannot be done.

Name binding ("variable = value") is a language primitive; it is not
delegated to the object on the LHS (if there even is one; the name doesn't
have to exist at the point that the statement is executed).

You'll have to change the syntax to something which is delegated to
objects, e.g. "a[:] = b" will call "a.__setitem__(slice(None), b)"



From ramdevtech.netinc at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 13:38:29 2012
From: ramdevtech.netinc at gmail.com (ram dev)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 10:38:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Client Needs at  Network Engineer at  Germantown,MD
Message-ID: <26fd045d-1176-43a8-b132-3f312f71756a@googlegroups.com>

Good Day,
We have an urgent Contract Opening in  Germantown, MD.

Looking forward to submit your resume for below mentioned Requirement?
If you are interested, Please forward your latest resume along with location and pay rate details to  ram at tech-netinc.com



Job Title:  Network Engineer
Location:  Germantown,MD
Duration: 6+ months

			 Position Details:
				Client is looking for a Network Engineer to join a multi-member / multi-region team which supports a Global Enterprise Network consisting of more than 50 sites. The successful candidate will engage with a Global team supporting systems and tools which include Cisco and HP networking and security systems, Blue Coat proxies, Juniper and Cisco SSL VPN appliances, Cisco and F5 load balances, H.323 and SIP voice gateways, Riverbed optimization and analysis appliances and management tools such as SPLUNK, Solar Winds Orion and TACACS+. 
Principal duties and responsibilities may include, but are not limited to: 
? Participate in rotating on-call coverage (as an escalation point for Tier 2) 
? Identify, diagnose, and resolve complex network problems 
? Assist application teams to diagnose and resolve performance issues over the network using sniffing tools (i.e. wire shark) 
? Able to travel occasionally for special projects 
? Implement, maintain and enhance network management tools (i.e. Riverbed Cascade, SPLUNK, Solar Winds Orion, etc?) 
? Review project specifications and make design/implementation recommendations for improvements 
? Escalation point for incident, change, and service request tickets 
? Preparation of proposals and solution presentations 
? Act as a level 3 support for firewalls, load balancers, routing, and switching. Work with technical group to resolve issues in a timely manner 
? Mentor and knowledge sharing (training) for Tier 2, Tier 1, desk side and helpdesk support staff 
? Submit network level changes and provide appropriate level of coordination along with implementation.
? Maintain knowledge of the network environment and sufficient familiarity with business/application/systems 
? Perform work in an ethical manner, and act at all times with a business professional manner

Required Qualifications:
	? Minimum eight (8) years networking support for medium to large networks 
? Have senior/expert knowledge of routing and switching with Cisco and HP hardware/software. 
? Have senior/expert knowledge of Cisco ASA / ACE / ACS / TACACS+ / NCS, Juniper, and F5 
? Have senior/expert knowledge of ACE and F5 load balancing technologies. 
? Capable of performing packet level analysis. 
? Have senior/expert knowledge of Cisco Router suite of products (2900/3800, 3900/2900, ASR, etc.) 
? Have senior/expert knowledge of Cisco Switch suite of products (6500, 4500, 4900, 3750, etc.) 
? Have senior/expert knowledge of WAN technologies: Frame Relay, ATM, T3, MPLS, MetroE 
? Have senior/expert knowledge of Internet and networking technologies such as DNS, SMTP, SNMP, NTP. 
? Ability to understand and adhere to systems security and control procedures in accordance with departmental, vendor standards and regulatory bodies 
? Knowledge of network technologies such as, TCP/IP protocol, Layer 2 Spanning Tree, Layer 3 routing (EIGRP, BGP, OSPF), Quality of Services, DNS, DHCP, SNMP 
? Good knowledge of IP Telephony 
? Good Knowledge of Server Virtualization (i.e. VM Ware) and networking requirements to support 
? Have senior/expert knowledge of network cabling standards and wireless network technologies 
? Have senior/expert knowledge of enterprise network management tools such as Cisco Works, HP Open view, Solar Winds 
? Provide leadership to junior staff 
? Must be able to create and update documentation with Visio, Excel and Word 
? At least 2 years in a team lead or technical project management role, with experience in: 
o Ability to oversee and lead vendors and other network department resources 
o Ability to interact with other departments such as facilities 
? Ability to work independently and provide timely status updates. 
? Good oral and written communications skills. 
? Ability to handle multi-tasking and frequently changing priorities. 
? Cisco Certifications a plus 
? Familiarity with ITIL processes a plus


Thanks,
============================
Ram Dev
Recruiter
Tech-Net Inc.
Tel: 916-458-4390 Ext 102
Email: ram at tech-netinc.com 
Ym: vramdev21 at yahoo.com
URL: www.tech-netinc.com


From walterhurry at lavabit.com  Tue Oct 16 13:47:22 2012
From: walterhurry at lavabit.com (Walter Hurry)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 17:47:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: OT Questions
References: <988533988.834634.1350400381609.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<507D7B92.9070704@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2293.1350408221.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k5k6ja$md0$1@news.albasani.net>

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 11:23:09 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:

> My theory for a while now has been that Mr. Hutto is probably an
> enterprising teenager

My theory for a while now has been that Mr. Hutto belongs in the bozo bin.



From pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com  Tue Oct 16 14:35:56 2012
From: pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com (Pradipto Banerjee)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 13:35:56 -0500
Subject: fastest data / database format for reading large files
Message-ID: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23DFDFD86@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>

I am working with a series of large files with sizes 4 to 10GB and may need to read these files repeated. What data format (i.e. pickle, json, csv, etc.) is considered the fastest for reading via python?

Thanks

 This communication is for informational purposes only. It is not intended to be, nor should it be construed or used as, financial, legal, tax or investment advice or an offer to sell, or a solicitation of any offer to buy, an interest in any fund advised by Ada Investment Management LP, the Investment advisor.  Any offer or solicitation of an investment in any of the Funds may be made only by delivery of such Funds confidential offering materials to authorized prospective investors.  An investment in any of the Funds is not suitable for all investors.  No representation is made that the Funds will or are likely to achieve their objectives, or that any investor will or is likely to achieve results comparable to those shown, or will make any profit at all or will be able to avoid incurring substantial losses.  Performance results are net of applicable fees, are unaudited and reflect reinvestment of income and profits.  Past performance is no guarantee of future results. All financial data and other information are not warranted as to completeness or accuracy and are subject to change without notice.

Any comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect those of Ada Investment Management LP and its affiliates. This transmission may contain information that is confidential, legally privileged, and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is strictly prohibited. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format.


From auriocus at gmx.de  Tue Oct 16 15:03:13 2012
From: auriocus at gmx.de (Christian Gollwitzer)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:03:13 +0200
Subject: Providing a Python wrapper to a C++ type.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2291.1350406602.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <b71bb1ac-cfe0-45eb-a384-4d6109c99543@googlegroups.com>
	<0423426c-c19a-4634-9f67-5bf92d766f61@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2263.1350387583.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<d2c77c2a-21de-4f39-8c10-d1b44fdf23d7@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2291.1350406602.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k5kb1k$h5e$1@dont-email.me>

Am 16.10.12 18:42, schrieb Evan Driscoll:
> For instance, I used it to wrap the OS's opendir/readdir
> (FindFirstFile/FindNextFile) functions: I just wrote a bit of code using
> Cython's extensions, and I get a module I can import and use as normal.

Well, but for an existing library in C++ possibly SWIG will be the 
easiest way to go; since you already have a header file, it might be 
enough to do

swig -python -c++ myheader.hpp

to get the wrappers generated. This works well in simple cases. For 
complicated cases like trying to wrap large template libraries like STL 
or Boost, it is also necessary to twiddle with SWIGs interface language. 
In many cases, however, this can be #ifdef'ed in the header file itself, 
therefore it is easy to keep the interface in sync with the class library.

	Christian


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Tue Oct 16 16:12:23 2012
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 22:12:23 +0200
Subject: system tray or notification area in python
Message-ID: <CADjSo4TmVQrr9zCsX5uCCx0iDOP3GJjY7i9rXtCBi9hbbu7a8A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,

I'm using a stand alone window manager without gnome or kde or any
other de. But I still would like to have a system tray or notification
area and so far used stalonetray for this. Stalonetray is written in C
and is a GTK application, works all right but sometimes it doesn't.
For instance if it is killed and restarted icons don't come back, etc,
etc, there are some quirks.

So I thought I would write a brand new stand alone system tray or
notification area in python. I guess I need to use gtk bindings or
some such but don't really know what my options are.

Where would I start something like this?
Any pointers would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Tue Oct 16 16:17:34 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 20:17:34 +0000
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671855B@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:27:48 -0700, rurpy wrote about trolls and dicks:
> 
> > The best advise is to ignore such posts and encourage others to do the
> > same.
> 
> If you ignore such posts, how will the poster know they are unacceptable?
> 
> How should somebody distinguish between "I am being shunned for acting
> like a dick", and "I have not received any responses because nobody has
> anything to add"?
> 
> If I believe that your behaviour ("giving lousy advice") is causing great
> harm to this community, and *I don't say anything*, how will you know to
> change your behaviour? How will others know that I do not agree with your
> advice?
> 
> 

I agree completely. I was about to say that I was fine with meeting
known trolls with silence, but what happens when new or infrequent 
readers see the troll's writing with no one objecting? Are they to
ignore the troll or assume that the list condones the troll's words?

~Ramit


This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From rodrick.brown at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 16:18:14 2012
From: rodrick.brown at gmail.com (Rodrick Brown)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 16:18:14 -0400
Subject: system tray or notification area in python
In-Reply-To: <CADjSo4TmVQrr9zCsX5uCCx0iDOP3GJjY7i9rXtCBi9hbbu7a8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADjSo4TmVQrr9zCsX5uCCx0iDOP3GJjY7i9rXtCBi9hbbu7a8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7585937255598573571@unknownmsgid>

On Oct 16, 2012, at 4:14 PM, Daniel Fetchinson
<fetchinson at googlemail.com> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I'm using a stand alone window manager without gnome or kde or any
> other de. But I still would like to have a system tray or notification
> area and so far used stalonetray for this. Stalonetray is written in C
> and is a GTK application, works all right but sometimes it doesn't.
> For instance if it is killed and restarted icons don't come back, etc,
> etc, there are some quirks.
>
> So I thought I would write a brand new stand alone system tray or
> notification area in python. I guess I need to use gtk bindings or
> some such but don't really know what my options are.
>
> Where would I start something like this?
> Any pointers would be greatly appreciated!
>
Why not look at the source code of the current app your using to get
an idea how that application accomplishes said task?

You could always use raw X11 libs but leveraging something like Gtk or
Qt/KDE would probably be much easier.

> Cheers,
> Daniel
>
>
> --
> Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From jerry at example.invalid  Tue Oct 16 16:19:52 2012
From: jerry at example.invalid (Jerry Peters)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 20:19:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Is there a way to create kernel log messages via Python?
References: <mailman.2248.1350359007.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k5kfh8$66h$1@dont-email.me>

J <dreadpiratejeff at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi...
> 
> I have a bit of code that does the following:
> 
> uses the syslog module to inject a LOG_INFO message into the syslog on
> my linux machine
> runs a suspend/resume cycle
> uses the syslog module to inkect a LOG_INFO message marking the end of test.
> 
> Then I parse everything between the start and stop markers for certain
> items that the Linux kernel logs during a suspend and resume cycle.
> 
> But my  "resume complete" timing is not as accurate as it could be.
> The problem with doing it this way is that while I can find definite
> kernel messages that mark various points in the suspend/resume cycle,
> the final message when the kernel is done resuming is NOT the point I
> actually want to mark.
> 
> Instead, the end point I want is the time of the ending marker itself,
> as this happens after certain other things are done such as resumption
> of networking services.
> 
> Here's the problem.  I can't just use syslog timestamps.  The reason
> is that the syslog timestamps are only indicative of when messages are
> written to syslog via syslogd.  The kernel timestamps are different.
> For example, the following bits of log are taken from the time the
> test starts until the end of the "going to sleep" kernel messages.
> First, note that there's a 5 second difference between the START
> marker and the first kernel message.  Next, look at the kernel
> timestamps.  The total real time to suspend starts at 421320.380947
> and ends at 421322.386355, around 2 seconds later, where the log
> messages themselves all state that the events occurred at the same
> time.
> 
> Oct 15 10:24:19 klaatu sleep_test: ---SLEEP TEST START 1350296656---
> Oct 15 10:25:24 klaatu kernel: [421320.380947] PM: Syncing filesystems ... done.
> Oct 15 10:25:24 klaatu kernel: [421320.391282] PM: Preparing system
> for mem sleep
> [SNIP]
> Oct 15 10:25:24 klaatu kernel: [421322.282943] Broke affinity for irq 23
> Oct 15 10:25:24 klaatu kernel: [421322.386355] CPU 7 is now offline
> 
> So, what I REALLY want is to inject my start/stop markers into klogd
> rather than syslogd.  This will, I hope, give my markers kernel
> timestamps rather than syslog timestamps which are not as accurate.
> 
> So does anyone know of a way to do this?  Unfortunately, I've tried
> some searching but google doesn't like the term klog, and most of the
> hits involved injecting code or other things that are not related at
> all.
> 
> Or, if there's a better way to get accurate timestamps, what would that be?


Take a look at /dev/kmsg, I *believe* it's the way various boot
logging programs inject application type messages into the kernel boot
up message stream.

	Jerry


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Tue Oct 16 16:39:57 2012
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 22:39:57 +0200
Subject: Fwd: system tray or notification area in python
In-Reply-To: <CADjSo4RqR1Jbpuv2-RpW-HcorjBO8DecGum=A1VzS4xeOTrL6Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADjSo4TmVQrr9zCsX5uCCx0iDOP3GJjY7i9rXtCBi9hbbu7a8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<7585937255598573571@unknownmsgid>
	<CADjSo4RqR1Jbpuv2-RpW-HcorjBO8DecGum=A1VzS4xeOTrL6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADjSo4QFU1PGYQchnHxY=f7jjnX1iOye_d+YAF8RRips7gNwRw@mail.gmail.com>

>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I'm using a stand alone window manager without gnome or kde or any
>> other de. But I still would like to have a system tray or notification
>> area and so far used stalonetray for this. Stalonetray is written in C
>> and is a GTK application, works all right but sometimes it doesn't.
>> For instance if it is killed and restarted icons don't come back, etc,
>> etc, there are some quirks.
>>
>> So I thought I would write a brand new stand alone system tray or
>> notification area in python. I guess I need to use gtk bindings or
>> some such but don't really know what my options are.
>>
>> Where would I start something like this?
>> Any pointers would be greatly appreciated!
>>
> Why not look at the source code of the current app your using to get
> an idea how that application accomplishes said task?

I actually did that already it's using the C bindings of gtk.
You might ask you I'm not modifying the code in order to achieve what
I want, well, the answer is that I'd much rather prototype something
like this in python than work immediately with gtk from C.

But I have zero experience with gui programming in python. So any
pointers would be much appreciated how to implement a system tray in
python. Gtk is I guess just one option, one could use other stuff from
python but I wouldn't know what the simplest approach is.

Cheers,
Daniel


> You could always use raw X11 libs but leveraging something like Gtk or
> Qt/KDE would probably be much easier.



-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown



-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From nad at acm.org  Tue Oct 16 16:44:45 2012
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 13:44:45 -0700
Subject: [on topic] Re: readline trick needed
References: <50796ce5$0$6574$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<k5j5sk$msb$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<nad-B8F710.01501716102012@news.gmane.org>
	<k5jcbs$eub$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <nad-182972.13444416102012@news.gmane.org>

In article <k5jcbs$eub$1 at ger.gmane.org>, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> 
wrote:
> Ned Deily wrote:
> > Keep in mind that the Python readline module may be linked to either the
> > GPL-licensed GNU readline or the BSD-licensed editline (libedit) library
> > (the default on newer OS X systems and probably on *BSD systems) and
> > they have different command strings.  Note the warning here:
> > 
> > http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/readline.html
> 
> I think you are a Mac user. If so, can the snippet I posted be generalised 
> to work with libedit?

Isn't it hairy enough??

Here's how to make tab complete work with both; it gives an idea of the 
libedit commands:

     import rlcompleter
     if 'libedit' in readline.__doc__:
         readline.parse_and_bind("bind ^I rl_complete")
     else:  # GNU readline format
         readline.parse_and_bind("tab: complete")

The documentation of the command syntax is in the .editrc man pages, for 
example:

https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Darwin/Reference/M
anPages/man5/editrc.5.html
 
> > Or it may not be linked with either. 
> OK, change "no warranties" to "absolutely no warranties" ;)

Good idea.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From rurpy at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 16 17:10:17 2012
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 14:10:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>

On 10/16/2012 10:49 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:27:48 -0700, rurpy wrote about trolls and dicks:

No, I wrote about trolls.  "dicks" is a highly emotive and 
almost totally subjective word that I would not use in a
rational discussion.  Perhaps you were trying to be amusing?

>> >> The best advise is to ignore such posts and encourage others to do the
>> >> same.
> > 
> > If you ignore such posts, how will the poster know they are unacceptable?

Do you really think that in the vast majority of cases that
the poster is blithely unaware of the inflammatory nature 
of their post?  The whole point of trolling is to generate
responses by posting something inflammatory.  It sounds to
me like your view is that most such posts are made by people 
who are simply brand new to the internet (or at least the 
civilized parts of it) and thus, when their error is pointed 
out, will say thanks and change their ways.
 
> > How should somebody distinguish between "I am being shunned for acting 
> > like a dick", and "I have not received any responses because nobody has 
> > anything to add"?

Because you sent them private email telling them that?  (And
if you can't do that, maybe you should take it as a hint that
they're not particularly interested in your "help"?)

> > If I believe that your behaviour ("giving lousy advice") is causing great 
> > harm to this community, and *I don't say anything*, how will you know to 
> > change your behaviour? 

If that was how you thought, then you would be someone I hope 
would follow my advice.  Because you would clearly seem to be 
unable to distinguish between difference of opinion on a 
subject relevant to the newsgroup, and inflammatory trolling.  
Further you see the situation in extreme terms ("*great 
harm*") and one in which only a single point of view (your's) 
is acceptable.  You would be bordering on delusional by 
thinking your post would somehow change my "behavior".  

But even if you had a more rational response and saved 
that reaction for actual trolling and not someone who 
simply disagreed with you, I ask again, what makes you 
think your response will change that troll's behavior,
when in actuality, your kind of response is exactly what
most trolls hope to elicit?  Did it help in the case I
mentioned?

> > How will others know that I do not agree with your 
> > advice?

Why is it so important to you that I and others know what 
you think?  Since you are (usually) a reasonable person I
don't need to read your explicit pronouncement to assume
that you disagree with some repugnant post.

If it were possible to somehow have a single, reasonable
response generated to an offensive post, that would be great.
But I don't think that is possible.  Multiple people will 
feel the need to take on that duty.  Others will feel the
response is not strong enough or doesn't represent their
personal take and post their responses.  Some will respond
righteously to non-offensive posts.  (The use of "troll"
as a synonym for "I/we don't agree with you" is quite 
noticeable in this group.)  The perp will inevitably
followup with more offensive posts in response.  This 
is how things have worked since the invention of mailing
lists and why "don't feed the trolls" has served fairly
well for three decades.



From rurpy at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 16 17:12:33 2012
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 14:12:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2297.1350420174.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2297.1350420174.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7ddfe726-0940-446f-82c6-5576ead35312@googlegroups.com>

On 10/16/2012 02:17 PM, Prasad, Ramit wrote:> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:27:48 -0700, rurpy wrote about trolls and dicks:
>> 
>> > The best advise is to ignore such posts and encourage others to do the
>> > same.
>> 
>> If you ignore such posts, how will the poster know they are unacceptable?
>> 
>> How should somebody distinguish between "I am being shunned for acting
>> like a dick", and "I have not received any responses because nobody has
>> anything to add"?
>> 
>> If I believe that your behaviour ("giving lousy advice") is causing great
>> harm to this community, and *I don't say anything*, how will you know to
>> change your behaviour? How will others know that I do not agree with your
>> advice?
> 
> I agree completely. I was about to say that I was fine with meeting
> known trolls with silence, but what happens when new or infrequent 
> readers see the troll's writing with no one objecting? Are they to
> ignore the troll or assume that the list condones the troll's words?

You do not give enough credit to people.  The vast majority 
of people are capable of recognizing offensive posts and 
recognizing that non-response to them is intentional.  I 
think it is absurd to think that most normal people will
see such posts and conclude that all Python programmers 
agree with them.  (No time to look it up but I vaguely
recall a long series of anti-semitic posts here that were 
largely ignored.  I've seen no evidence that there are 
people who brand the Python community as anti-semitic.)



From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Tue Oct 16 17:21:26 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:21:26 +0000
Subject: system tray or notification area in python
In-Reply-To: <CADjSo4QFU1PGYQchnHxY=f7jjnX1iOye_d+YAF8RRips7gNwRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADjSo4TmVQrr9zCsX5uCCx0iDOP3GJjY7i9rXtCBi9hbbu7a8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<7585937255598573571@unknownmsgid>
	<CADjSo4RqR1Jbpuv2-RpW-HcorjBO8DecGum=A1VzS4xeOTrL6Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADjSo4QFU1PGYQchnHxY=f7jjnX1iOye_d+YAF8RRips7gNwRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671872C@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
> >> Hi folks,
> >>
> >> I'm using a stand alone window manager without gnome or kde or any
> >> other de. But I still would like to have a system tray or notification
> >> area and so far used stalonetray for this. Stalonetray is written in C
> >> and is a GTK application, works all right but sometimes it doesn't.
> >> For instance if it is killed and restarted icons don't come back, etc,
> >> etc, there are some quirks.
> >>
> >> So I thought I would write a brand new stand alone system tray or
> >> notification area in python. I guess I need to use gtk bindings or
> >> some such but don't really know what my options are.
> >>
> >> Where would I start something like this?
> >> Any pointers would be greatly appreciated!
> >>
> > Why not look at the source code of the current app your using to get
> > an idea how that application accomplishes said task?
> 
> I actually did that already it's using the C bindings of gtk.
> You might ask you I'm not modifying the code in order to achieve what
> I want, well, the answer is that I'd much rather prototype something
> like this in python than work immediately with gtk from C.
> 
> But I have zero experience with gui programming in python. So any
> pointers would be much appreciated how to implement a system tray in
> python. Gtk is I guess just one option, one could use other stuff from
> python but I wouldn't know what the simplest approach is.
> 
> 

I have used wxpython and thought it was powerful and reasonably easy 
to use. I have no experience with other Python frameworks but I know 
wxpython is a popular choice and I would guess it has an active community.

That is my two cents (or lowest denomination currency for your locale).

> 
> > You could always use raw X11 libs but leveraging something like Gtk or
> > Qt/KDE would probably be much easier.
> 

~Ramit


This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From auriocus at gmx.de  Tue Oct 16 17:56:39 2012
From: auriocus at gmx.de (Christian Gollwitzer)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 23:56:39 +0200
Subject: Fwd: system tray or notification area in python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2296.1350420001.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CADjSo4TmVQrr9zCsX5uCCx0iDOP3GJjY7i9rXtCBi9hbbu7a8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<7585937255598573571@unknownmsgid>
	<CADjSo4RqR1Jbpuv2-RpW-HcorjBO8DecGum=A1VzS4xeOTrL6Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2296.1350420001.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k5kl6n$ia1$1@dont-email.me>

Am 16.10.12 22:39, schrieb Daniel Fetchinson:
>>> Hi folks,
>>> So I thought I would write a brand new stand alone system tray or
>>> notification area in python. I guess I need to use gtk bindings or
>>> some such but don't really know what my options are.
>>>
>>> Where would I start something like this?
>>> Any pointers would be greatly appreciated!
>>>
>> Why not look at the source code of the current app your using to get
>> an idea how that application accomplishes said task?
>
> I actually did that already it's using the C bindings of gtk.

I think you are mistaken - if its this one:
	http://stalonetray.sourceforge.net/

I had a quick look into the sources, it does not use gtk at all, it uses 
low level X11 calls. Programming in this way is very tedious.

> But I have zero experience with gui programming in python. So any
> pointers would be much appreciated how to implement a system tray in
> python. Gtk is I guess just one option, one could use other stuff from
> python but I wouldn't know what the simplest approach is.

I'm not sure it is even possible. "Usual" GUI applications just need to 
request certain features from their window manager such as the setting 
the program icon or requesting a certain position on the screen. That is 
what is implemented in the usual toolits like Tk, QT, and gtk.

A window manager, on the other hand, must be able to recieve and 
interpret these messages. For a system tray, they are described here:

http://standards.freedesktop.org/systemtray-spec/systemtray-spec-0.3.html

I have not studied the whole interface of the aforementioned toolkits, 
but I suspect that there is no way around writing low level Xlib code in 
order to recieve these messages.

Don't take it wrong, but when you write that you have no experience with 
GUI programming, I'd start another projet first - I think you will have 
a tough way to succeed with this project.

	Christian


From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 18:36:05 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 23:36:05 +0100
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <7ddfe726-0940-446f-82c6-5576ead35312@googlegroups.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2297.1350420174.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7ddfe726-0940-446f-82c6-5576ead35312@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qU7qit4W06251GCrCqU4N3h2RRXFS-uaMvr9C8USWtWyA@mail.gmail.com>

First of all, I believe this is the *perfect* post to try and
keep discussion calm. If trusted members cannot keep a good tone of voice
and have an understanding (even if disagreeing) stance on a post
about aggressive language, it does not shine brightly as a message to
others.

On 16 October 2012 22:12, <rurpy at yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 10/16/2012 02:17 PM, Prasad, Ramit wrote:> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> >> On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:27:48 -0700, rurpy wrote about trolls and dicks:
> >> If you ignore such posts, how will the poster know they are
> unacceptable?
> >
> > I agree completely. I was about to say that I was fine with meeting
> > known trolls with silence, but what happens when new or infrequent
> > readers see the troll's writing with no one objecting? Are they to
> > ignore the troll or assume that the list condones the troll's words?
>
> You do not give enough credit to people.  The vast majority
> of people are capable of recognizing offensive posts and
> recognizing that non-response to them is intentional.


I think you are only right up to a point. Whilst some messages are obvious
trolls, it is a well known phenomena that people respond emphatically to
even the most outrageous of posts, especially if they are new enough not to
know the culture we expect.


> I think it is absurd to think that most normal people will
> see such posts and conclude that all Python programmers
> agree with them.  (No time to look it up but I vaguely
> recall a long series of anti-semitic posts here that were
> largely ignored.  I've seen no evidence that there are
> people who brand the Python community as anti-semitic.)
>

These are a brilliant example of obvious spam. A quick GMail search for
"Jew" turned up a fair few spread posts that were definitely anti-Semitic.
However, they were posts that lacked any context and had nothing to relate
to Python, this list or anyone on this list. They were so obviously
irrelevant that it would be crazy for anyone to label the list with this.

If these posts were short responses like "Your code's just broken you
stupid Jew", then your point would be more easy to accept. I can imagine
(for it is *the internet*) that someone would take genuine offence and
label *sections* of the Python-List community as anti-semetic.

However, a response of "*Qxrlt* *is a known" + ("spammer" | "troll" |
"bot") to the OP (never talking to the troll for fear of baiting) is likely
to immediately alleviate any risk and cannot, as far as I can see, propose
any significant risk.

>From that point on, every post of theirs in the thread can be ignored
safely. Which is the goal, I guess.


I am going to go on record to say I agree with you that a warning cannot
oft change a troll's behaviour, and a talking to (of any kind) will likely
act as troll bait. However, this does not mean that silence is the best
option.

* Apologies to Qxrlt, whoever may have that pseudo-random character stream
as their nickname
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From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 20:55:38 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 20:55:38 -0400
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <507D7540.9010303@gmail.com>
References: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507D7540.9010303@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJVVFiZbtPEXA1Gpa_yg8g9e=oN0gyF=b8jnGnUsSPZ6vA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure whether or not this is a troll, but I'll bite.

No, not a troll, I've been around these lists for a while, and a few
wild arguments stemming from both my ego, and some other programmer's
arrogance.
>
> If you're going to ask for people's opinions on your work, I would try to
> keep the negativity in a list to zero.

If a flame on you pops up, you sometimes fight fire with fire. There
are a lot of things that get mixed up. Like maybe a personal reply
instead of reply all, that everyone else missed, or didn't see another
thread in which the argument started.

 I'm relatively new to this list and
> the tirades that you've gone on have been childish at best.

You haven't been on lists long enough then to have seen some real
flame warts...no offense.

 Doing that and
> then turning around and asking for useful feedback (if you're genuinely
> looking for it) is not going to yield much.

It does from those who I trust as not going to go into rants, such as
I have, but mine are usually in response, and yes they do get nasty at
times.

>
> Now that that's over..
>
> I couldn't get to your oDesk profile, got an empty page. That *could* be
> caused by the dead zones that I'm hitting atm, but I gave up after a few
> tries.

It's there, and it's a starter portfolio for other freelance sites
looking for work.
>
> I then went to your website and here's what I can see from a glance. This
> isn't meant to be harsh or slag you personally, but learn what you're doing
> before you attempt to create a company to help others. If you *do* know what
> you're doing, use your site to showcase that. Nobody will hire someone with
> a business site like your current site:

It's in a design phase, and I'm asking the local experts to critique
it, and even be harsh.
>
> * You have a bloated, 50+MB gif serving your page contents. That's just bad
> for obvious reasons

It was meant as more of a commercial to show a little more umph in my
site presentation, and I'm working on reducing the size through
several different means.
.
> * There's no DOCTYPE declaration in your HTML.
> * You have <div>s mixed in pre-<body>
> * You don't have a <head> container

Working on it buddy.

> * You have embedded music. Not only is this a bad design choice from a UX
> perspective, but it's also causing the client to load more

I know this, and I'm trying to reduce it, but show something that's appealing.
.
> * You have *no* SEO

Not yet, and the graphic has no text for the web crawlers to parse,
which I'm aware of, as well as no meta tags

> * You have commented out HTML

This is the design phase, and that will be removed.

> * You don't have any design sense (not a personal attack, I don't have any
> either).

I kind of like my designs, and they're being refined through these
conversations.

>
> My suggestions:
> * Take courses (free or paid) on web development. Udacity has a few good
> ones.

I like w3schools.com, and I know that it's a rough draft, and so
should my critics.

> * Apply your learnings to your site. Showcase what you can do and what you
> know and what you can do.
> * Look for a designer partner, someone who can make your work visually
> appealing. The visuals are the first impression (after initial load times).

I like to work alone, and his is an attempt to get others in the OS
community to comment.

>
>
> Now having said all of that, if this is a troll, I feel rather foolish.

Only trolling for fish under the bridge...clients

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 20:57:58 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 20:57:58 -0400
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <988533988.834634.1350400381609.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
References: <507D7540.9010303@gmail.com>
	<988533988.834634.1350400381609.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJWzTFLBDLZCARVAGatB5TUitvTj8qjjLj=vE1A0WKZJaw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Jean-Michel Pichavant
<jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> [snip a link to a 1980's personal gif based homepage]
>
>> Now having said all of that, if this is a troll, I feel rather
>> foolish.
>
> Search deep inside your heart, and you'll realize you already know the answer to that question :o)
>
No I'm not a troll. I like to answer, as well as ask, and sometimes
things get heated, and you get called a name, and the name takes the
argument out of context sometimes.

You can't like everybody, and sometimes egos get in the way.

Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 21:00:11 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:00:11 -0400
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <72bb31d9-3ca9-4873-b287-74f91109e828@s9g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
References: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2283.1350399311.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<72bb31d9-3ca9-4873-b287-74f91109e828@s9g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJVftp9Dfv55pg3-MLnx=-xMLZQYykuSt6JojF+2FqA8Wg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:53 AM, rusi <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 16, 7:55 pm, Demian Brecht <demianbre... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm not sure whether or not this is a troll, but I'll bite.
>
> Do trolls exist any more than pixies, elves, gnomes, unicorns?
> Trolling posts of course do... IOW:
>
>> There's a small light somewhere deep down that says maybe this is just
>> someone quite misdirected.

I've spet a lot of time alone working on things I like, and just
wanted to have some good critics come in without the bs that can go
on, and sometimes I sling a little mud at awhat seems to be a personal
attack.

>
> means giving the benefit of doubt and seems to me to be good policy
> (withing reasonable limits)
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 21:06:24 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:06:24 -0400
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid=RNzAuqJq9Z1crwFBA3iwRZX4RwuqFUQYfEuXEzDv-HA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <988533988.834634.1350400381609.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<507D7B92.9070704@gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=RNzAuqJq9Z1crwFBA3iwRZX4RwuqFUQYfEuXEzDv-HA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJVmaCmbddhdmBpLdK+4LYome4ANmGGeM9+i2-Wwb_zZ=w@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 9:21 AM, Demian Brecht <demianbrecht at gmail.com> wrote:
>> There's a small light somewhere deep down that says maybe this is just
>> someone quite misdirected. A brief search shows that he has multiple
>> domains, all with the same type of design. I would be hard pressed to think
>> that someone would go to that extent just to troll a list.
>>
>> Meh, maybe it's my good nature :P
>
> My theory for a while now has been that Mr. Hutto is probably an
> enterprising teenager.

Nope 33, with a bad history, and trying to reinvent myself. And my
nature is always shop talk, and messing around with the guys, and it's
never mean.

I'm a self educated individual, and I like to joke some, which doesn't
get conveyed when you're in an email/text conversation, and you can't
hear the tone or pitch of my voice joking with you.

That can lead to a misinterpretation of what's said.

His desire to build a web development company
> is sincere and should be encouraged, but his lack of experience

You have no clue about my other skill sets, and what I do, so get to
know me, and you'll see experience s that will blow your mind.

This comes from a former crip/tru soldier getting his life straight
instead of the other options I have available.

 is
> readily apparent, as is his rather crude behavior on list.

I'm working on toning down the smack talk, I'm just used to a little
witty back and forth with some seriously cruel individuals.

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 21:08:37 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:08:37 -0400
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <k5k6ja$md0$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <988533988.834634.1350400381609.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<507D7B92.9070704@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2293.1350408221.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5k6ja$md0$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJW7iH3ao44LvqWvr4kgSk7f71KdxzFRT2poxSZixKKjaQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Walter Hurry <walterhurry at lavabit.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 11:23:09 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:
>
>> My theory for a while now has been that Mr. Hutto is probably an
>> enterprising teenager
>
> My theory for a while now has been that Mr. Hutto belongs in the bozo bin.


Maybe you're a little too serious. From what I've seen, a little
clowning around makes days easier, and it's supposed to be good
natured discussion that just gets misconveyed in an email with no
personal contact.




-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From andrew at nospam.example.com  Tue Oct 16 21:25:09 2012
From: andrew at nospam.example.com (Andrew Cooper)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 02:25:09 +0100
Subject: Is there a way to create kernel log messages via Python?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2248.1350359007.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2248.1350359007.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <SNnfs.353989$512.310988@fx28.am4>

On 16/10/2012 04:43, J wrote:
> Hi...
> 
<snip>
> 
> So, what I REALLY want is to inject my start/stop markers into klogd
> rather than syslogd.  This will, I hope, give my markers kernel
> timestamps rather than syslog timestamps which are not as accurate.
> 
> So does anyone know of a way to do this?  Unfortunately, I've tried
> some searching but google doesn't like the term klog, and most of the
> hits involved injecting code or other things that are not related at
> all.
> 
> Or, if there's a better way to get accurate timestamps, what would that be?
> 

It is very easy (about 40 lines of C) to write a kernel module which
opens up an easy interface to use.

I wrote a kernel module (unimaginatively called uklog, for user-klog)
which exports /proc/printk/{alert thru debug}.  With this in place, any
(root, although this can be changed) userspace process can issue
messages into the kernel by opening the relevant file and writing to it.

Sadly, this is not useful on any system which is not your own, and is
also unlikely to be accepted upstream (although it is fantastically
useful for micro-vms with no root filesystems, where the kernel log is
the only form of logging, and the serial console is the only useful
method of communication.)

~Andrew


From redstone-cold at 163.com  Tue Oct 16 21:36:13 2012
From: redstone-cold at 163.com (iMath)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 18:36:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to  use pyODBC to connect to MySql ,please give me a sample
Message-ID: <e89cd234-15ac-42c5-86d0-5be2e86b6a6d@googlegroups.com>


 host name : localhost
user name:root
 password:19910512
database name : shopping


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 21:51:54 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:51:54 -0400
Subject: overriding equals operation
In-Reply-To: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23DFDFB43@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23DFDFB43@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJUbW3vuEUPtrT8FB8KVn-nBxtA9nZG5YoPJ0Hqwchzhdw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Pradipto Banerjee
<pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com> wrote:
> I am trying to define class, where if I use a statement a = b, then instead of "a" pointing to the same instance as "b", it should point to a copy of "b", but I can't get it right.
>
> Currently, I have the following:
>
> ----
>
> class myclass(object):
>         def __init__(self, w3kschoolsname='')
>                 self.name = name
>
>         def copy(self):
>                 newvar = myclass(self.name)
>                 return newvar
>
>         def __eq__(self, other):
>                 if instance(other, myclass):
>                         return self == other.copy()
>                 return NotImplemented
> ----
>
> Now if I try:
>
>>>> a=myclass()
>>>> a.name = 'test'
>>>> b=a
>>>> b.name
> 'test'
>>>> b.name = 'test2'
>>>> a.name
> 'test2'
>
> I wanted b=a to make a new copy of "a", but then when I assigned b.name = 'test2', even a.name became 'test2'.
>
> How can I rectify my code to make the __eq__() behave like copy()?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>

If I'm understanding correctly(quick look at it), then write a new py
file and __import__ it if I'm remember correctly.

Use a secondary file to rewrite the existing nature of the python code
file, then import it, and utilize the remade secondary py file for
your usage..
-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From woooee at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 21:52:20 2012
From: woooee at gmail.com (woooee)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 18:52:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tkinter how to access the widget by name
References: <40621ce6-1b68-4cfa-8baf-cbfefce4f32b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6f06e17-ec7f-4774-bd31-1e72de4a6633@p5g2000pbs.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 14, 1:11?pm, ???????? ????? <clinicalf... at gmail.com> wrote:
> label = Label(frame, width = 40, text='text', name = 'name')
> ...
> name_='name'
> configure(name_)
> ...
> def configure(name_)
> ? ? ? ? #And how can that be?
> ? ? ? ? # At least let the text you want to change ....

I do not understand your question, but I think you want something like

def configure(name):   ## note that a colon is required here
   name.configure(bg='green')
   #  or
   name['bg']='green'

label_1 = Label(frame, width = 40, text='text')
configure(label_1)
label_2 = Label(frame, width = 40, text='label_2')
configure(label_2)

If this is not what you want, post an example that is more specific.


From kevin.s.anthony at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 21:54:24 2012
From: kevin.s.anthony at gmail.com (Kevin Anthony)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:54:24 -0400
Subject: list comprehension question
Message-ID: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>

I've been teaching myself list comprehension, and i've run across something
i'm not able to convert.

here's the original code for matrix multiplcation

retmatrix = Matrix(self.__row,other.__col)
for m in range(0,retmatrix.__row):
    for n in range(0,retmatrix.__col):
        product = 0
        for p in range(1,self.__col+1):
            product += (self.__matrix[m][p] * other.__matrix[p][n])
        retmatrix.__matrix[m][n] = product

Here is what i have so far:
retmatrix.__matrix = [[ product = product + (self.__matrix[m][p]*
other.__matrix[p][n])
                 if product else self.__matrix[m][p]* other.__matrix[p][n])
                 for p in range(0,self.col)
                 for n in range(0,self.col)]
                 for m in range(0,self.__row)]

But i know that isn't correct, can someone nudge my in the right direction?


-- 
Thanks
Kevin Anthony
www.NoSideRacing.com

Do you use Banshee?
Download the Community Extensions:
http://banshee.fm/download/extensions/
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From d at davea.name  Tue Oct 16 22:13:50 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 22:13:50 -0400
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <507E145E.9060008@davea.name>

On 10/16/2012 09:54 PM, Kevin Anthony wrote:
> I've been teaching myself list comprehension, and i've run across something
> i'm not able to convert.
>
> here's the original code for matrix multiplcation
>
> retmatrix = Matrix(self.__row,other.__col)
> for m in range(0,retmatrix.__row):
>     for n in range(0,retmatrix.__col):
>         product = 0
>         for p in range(1,self.__col+1):
>             product += (self.__matrix[m][p] * other.__matrix[p][n])
>         retmatrix.__matrix[m][n] = product
>
> Here is what i have so far:
> retmatrix.__matrix = [[ product = product + (self.__matrix[m][p]*
> other.__matrix[p][n])
>                  if product else self.__matrix[m][p]* other.__matrix[p][n])
>                  for p in range(0,self.col)
>                  for n in range(0,self.col)]
>                  for m in range(0,self.__row)]
>
> But i know that isn't correct, can someone nudge my in the right direction?
>
>

The biggest thing to learn about list comprehensions is when not to use
them.  I can't imagine how your latter version (even if correct) is
clearer than the first.



-- 

DaveA



From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 22:19:48 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 22:19:48 -0400
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJUN66rPpT3MuyybTTjgJUTv8LtZPaWmwDs3vWS4OdzuDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUN66rPpT3MuyybTTjgJUTv8LtZPaWmwDs3vWS4OdzuDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJX20myy-bFVuYpfPDuyJXvi_yGCBeLzeO==m9M3anKq4w@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 10:13 PM, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 9:54 PM, Kevin Anthony
> <kevin.s.anthony at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've been teaching myself list comprehension, and i've run across something
>> i'm not able to convert.
>>
>> here's the original code for matrix multiplcation
>>
>> retmatrix = Matrix(self.__row,other.__col)
>> for m in range(0,retmatrix.__row):
>>     for n in range(0,retmatrix.__col):
>>         product = 0
>>         for p in range(1,self.__col+1):
>>             product += (self.__matrix[m][p] * other.__matrix[p][n])
>>         retmatrix.__matrix[m][n] = product
>>
>> Here is what i have so far:
>> retmatrix.__matrix = [[ product = product + (self.__matrix[m][p]*
>> other.__matrix[p][n])
>>                  if product else self.__matrix[m][p]* other.__matrix[p][n])
>>                  for p in range(0,self.col)
>>                  for n in range(0,self.col)]
>>                  for m in range(0,self.__row)]
>>
>> But i know that isn't correct, can someone nudge my in the right direction?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thanks
>> Kevin Anthony
>> www.NoSideRacing.com
>>
>> Do you use Banshee?
>> Download the Community Extensions:
>> http://banshee.fm/download/extensions/
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>
> I did this a little while back for something else, but memories get
> jumbled up in these molecules of data I have floating around in my
> mind, but maybe this will put you on the right track.
>
>
> --

I know this doesn't answer the python question, but it will help you
algorithm out what you need to know.

I do lots of interdisciplinary research, so if this doesn't help, let
me know, and I'll take a refresher, and work up some code. Also, look
at numpy.
-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 22:22:29 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 22:22:29 -0400
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <507E145E.9060008@davea.name>
References: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507E145E.9060008@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJV01gWsKta3cQtZcrTG5-ypOy51k2nJNAbSxVzPBoGzqw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 10:13 PM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:
> On 10/16/2012 09:54 PM, Kevin Anthony wrote:
>> I've been teaching myself list comprehension, and i've run across something
>> i'm not able to convert.
>>
>> here's the original code for matrix multiplcation
>>
>> retmatrix = Matrix(self.__row,other.__col)
>> for m in range(0,retmatrix.__row):
>>     for n in range(0,retmatrix.__col):
>>         product = 0
>>         for p in range(1,self.__col+1):
>>             product += (self.__matrix[m][p] * other.__matrix[p][n])
>>         retmatrix.__matrix[m][n] = product
>>
>> Here is what i have so far:
>> retmatrix.__matrix = [[ product = product + (self.__matrix[m][p]*
>> other.__matrix[p][n])
>>                  if product else self.__matrix[m][p]* other.__matrix[p][n])
>>                  for p in range(0,self.col)
>>                  for n in range(0,self.col)]
>>                  for m in range(0,self.__row)]
>>
>> But i know that isn't correct, can someone nudge my in the right direction?
>>
>>
>
> The biggest thing to learn about list comprehensions is when not to use
> them.  I can't imagine how your latter version (even if correct) is
> clearer than the first.

I think he might be using the wrong function for a matrix
multiplication, not that it's not workable, but there are other
libraries like numpy that could help out.

I wouldn't use list comprehension for this, unless it might be several
lists that interact.
>
>
>
> --
>
> DaveA
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 22:24:09 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 22:24:09 -0400
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJV01gWsKta3cQtZcrTG5-ypOy51k2nJNAbSxVzPBoGzqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507E145E.9060008@davea.name>
	<CA+vVgJV01gWsKta3cQtZcrTG5-ypOy51k2nJNAbSxVzPBoGzqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJXfAPp8KR0vUUxcMmZw5qu54Q+7nrUr5fwBLz19fxCLfw@mail.gmail.com>

Try this in google:

python matrix multiplication

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Oct 16 22:45:04 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 17 Oct 2012 02:45:04 GMT
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 14:10:17 -0700, rurpy wrote:

> On 10/16/2012 10:49 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> > On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:27:48 -0700, rurpy wrote about trolls and
>> > dicks:
> 
> No, I wrote about trolls.  "dicks" is a highly emotive and almost
> totally subjective word 

As opposed to "troll", which is unemotional and objective? Not.


> that I would not use in a rational discussion. 

I would. If someone is acting like a dick, why not call them by the word 
that most accurately describes their behaviour?

I see nothing troll like in Dwight "call me David, but I can't be 
bothered changing my signature" Hutto's behaviour. He doesn't seem to be 
trolling, in either sense: he doesn't appear to be making provocative 
statements for the purpose of making people think, nor does he seem to be 
making inflammatory statements to get a rise out of people. He seems to 
genuinely want to help people, in a clumsy, aggressive, and I believe 
often intoxicated way.

So it seems to me that you are wrongly applying the term "troll" as a 
meaningless pejorative to anyone who behaves badly.


> Perhaps you were trying to be amusing?

Certainly not.


>>> >> The best advise is to ignore such posts and encourage others to do
>>> >> the same.
[...]
>> > How should somebody distinguish between "I am being shunned for
>> > acting like a dick", and "I have not received any responses because
>> > nobody has anything to add"?
> 
> Because you sent them private email telling them that? 

My, what a ... unique ... concept of "ignore such posts" you have.

So far, this has been the best advice you have given so far. My opinion 
is that there is a graduated response to dickish behaviour:

* send a message telling the person they are acting unacceptably,
  preferably privately on a first offence to avoid public shaming
  (when possible -- lots of people aren't privately contactable 
  for many reasons other than that they are trolls);

* if the behaviour continues, make a public comment condemning 
  that behaviour generally without engaging directly in a debate
  or "tit-for-tat" argument with the person.


And for those who value their own peace and quiet over the community 
benefit:

* block or killfile posts from that person so they don't
  have to be seen, preferably publicly.

When I killfile someone, I tend to make it expire after a month or three, 
just in case they mend their ways. Call me Mr Softy if you like.


[...]
>> > If I believe that your behaviour ("giving lousy advice") is causing
>> > great harm to this community, and *I don't say anything*, how will
>> > you know to change your behaviour?
> 
> If that was how you thought, then you would be someone I hope would
> follow my advice.  Because you would clearly seem to be unable to
> distinguish between difference of opinion on a subject relevant to the
> newsgroup, and inflammatory trolling. Further you see the situation in
> extreme terms ("*great harm*") and one in which only a single point of
> view (your's) is acceptable.

As opposed to only your opinion being acceptable? Why on earth should I 
follow your advice if I think it is bad advice?

We can't both be right[1]. We can't simultaneously confront bad 
behaviour, and ignore bad behaviour. I think your advice is bad, and has 
the potential to kill this community. You think my advice is bad, and has 
the potential to kill this community. Except that you've made a 180-
degree turn from your advice to "ignore" bad behaviour, but apparently 
didn't notice that *sending private emails* is not by any definition 
"ignoring". So apparently you don't actually agree with your own advice.


> You would be bordering on delusional by
> thinking your post would somehow change my "behavior".

It's not necessarily about changing your behaviour. (Well, in this case, 
it's less about you than about Dwight Hutto specifically and badly-
behaved posters in general.) It's about sending a message that the 
behaviour is unacceptable.

The primary purpose of that message is to discourage *others* from 
following in the same behaviour. Nothing will kill a forum faster than 
trolls and dicks feeding off each other, until there is nothing left but 
trolls and dicks. A single troll doesn't do much harm -- few of them have 
the energy to spam a news group for long periods, drowning out useful 
posts.


> But even if you had a more rational response 

*raises eyebrow*

> and saved that reaction for
> actual trolling and not someone who simply disagreed with you, I ask
> again, what makes you think your response will change that troll's
> behavior, when in actuality, your kind of response is exactly what most
> trolls hope to elicit?  Did it help in the case I mentioned?

As I said, I do not believe that Dwight Hutto is a troll. I believe he is 
merely badly behaved. And yes, I do believe that confronting him has 
changed his behaviour, at least for now.

Not immediately, of course. His immediate response was to retaliate and 
defend himself. Naturally -- very few people are self-honest enough to 
admit, even to themselves, when they are behaving badly.

But in the intervening weeks, we, this community, has done anything but 
ignore him. We're still talking about him *right now*. We're just not 
necessarily talking *to* him. And the few times that people do respond 
directly to Dwight, they make it very clear that their response is 
guarded and on sufferance.

And there have been no further outbursts from Dwight, at least not so 
far. So, yes, I think we've gotten the message across.


>> > How will others know that I do not agree with your advice?
> 
> Why is it so important to you that I and others know what you think? 
> Since you are (usually) a reasonable person I don't need to read your
> explicit pronouncement to assume that you disagree with some repugnant
> post.

You are assuming we all agree on what is repugnant. That pretty much 
demonstrates that you have missed my point. Without drawing explicit 
boundaries, how do people know what we consider beyond the boundary of 
acceptable behaviour?

The people in this forum come from all over the world. We're not all 
white, middle-class[2], Australian, educated, progressive/liberals like 
me. We're black, Chinese, German, conservative, Muslim, Christian, 
atheist, socialist, anarchist, fascist, etc. We come from all sorts of 
cultures, where families are run like democracies, or where they are run 
like dictatorships where the father is the head of the household even of 
his adult children; cultures that consider euthanasia beyond the pale and 
those that believe that there are fates worse than death; cultures where 
smacking children is an abomination and cultures where it is simply 
common sense; cultures that condone honour-killings and those that don't; 
cultures where blowing yourself up to kill the enemy is thought to be an 
act of bravery, and cultures where pushing a button to kill strangers a 
thousand miles away is thought to be an honourable act of military 
service.

What on earth makes you think we would possibly agree on what posts are 
repugnant without talking about it?

I'm sure that there are some people here -- and you might be one of them 
-- that consider my use of the word "dick" unacceptable. And others who 
consider dick a mild word and far less offensive than the euphemisms 
others might prefer.

Your opinion that we should all, somehow, agree on acceptable behaviour 
is culturally self-centred and rather naive. I'm far more offended by 
Dwight's habit of posting incoherently while pissed[3] than I am by his 
possibly-or-possibly-not racist punning. But I don't expect everyone to 
agree with me.




[1] However, we can both be wrong. There's no reason to think that there 
is *any* strategy to respond to bad behaviour that will work all the 
time, against all people.

[2] Nearly everybody thinks they're middle-class, except the filthy rich 
and the filthy poor.

[3] I don't give a damn what mind-altering chemicals Dwight wishes to 
indulge in, so long as he does it in private.


-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Oct 16 22:48:49 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 17 Oct 2012 02:48:49 GMT
Subject: OT Questions
References: <988533988.834634.1350400381609.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<507D7B92.9070704@gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=RNzAuqJq9Z1crwFBA3iwRZX4RwuqFUQYfEuXEzDv-HA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2304.1350435986.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <507e1c90$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:06:24 -0400, David Hutto wrote:

> I'm working on toning down the smack talk, I'm just used to a little
> witty back and forth with some seriously cruel individuals.

Thank you David, that is appreciated.

I see that you have changed your signature to match your preferred name 
(David rather than Dwight). You might not realise that your "From 
address" still says Dwight -- I had to manually change it above.



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Oct 16 22:50:36 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 17 Oct 2012 02:50:36 GMT
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <507e1cfc$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 02:45:04 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Dwight "call me David, but I can't be bothered changing my signature"
> Hutto's behaviour.

I withdraw this dig at David Hutto. It was unnecessary, and it turns out, 
wrong as he has now changed his signature.


-- 
Steven


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 23:00:10 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 20:00:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0d05cd45-3f70-4662-8810-32d596d9889a@v19g2000pbt.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 16, 9:27?pm, ru... at yahoo.com wrote:
> On 10/14/2012 10:36 PM, alex23 wrote:> On Oct 15, 1:22 pm, ru... at yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >> Thus when a member of this esteemed group
> >> was recently attacked as racist, for punning another member's
> >> name when responding somewhat heatedly,
>
> > Again, there is a difference between "attacking" someone "as racist"
> > and *criticising* their *comments* as *possibly* racist. When the
> > person whose name was being punned said that they themselves were
> > unsure whether it was intended as a racial attack, then the behaviour
> > was worth commenting on.
>
> I just went back and reread what you and some others wrote
> to make sure I was not misremembering and am comfortable
> sticking with my description. ?(FTR, your initial response
> was "Please, don't be a dick.")
>
> My intent was not to reargue that issue but to point out
> that different people have differing ideas on what is
> "acceptable" and "unacceptable" here and that if Ben
> Finney's advice to respond (in moderation) whenever one
> reads an "unacceptable" opinion is taken, one will create
> an environment in which troll's will flourish.
>
> The best advise is to ignore such posts and encourage
> others to do the same.

Trolling posts certainly exist. And when 'troll' becomes a short-form
for 'one-who-regularly-trolls' its fine as long as we remember that
its a metonymy.

When we forget
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg
should help by:
1. Showing how to deal with trolling
2. Reminding that such beings dont actually exist except as caricature

Coming to current misbehavior on the list -- specifically Etienne's
outburst against Steven,
I am reminded of a similar situation a year ago

Long thread -- Relevant starting is here
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2011-May/604893.html

Abusive post
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2011-May/604914.html

Maybe easier to read
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/17dca3bf467c9001/c53102a45da19386

The last thing that John Bokma posted (to the best of my knowledge)
was:

> Ben Finney <ben at benfinney.id.au> writes:
>
>>> Get a life. Or better, just fuck off and die. It will improve both the
>>> world and the Python community, of which you are nothing but a little,
>>> smelly shitstain.
>>
>> That abuse is entirely unwelcome in this community, against any person.
>> Please desist.

> You should have spoken up sooner, especially as the spokes person of
> "this" community. But every bully has is fan club.
>
> --
> John Bokma

If we think/feel that John Bokma was trolling then driving him off the
list was a good thing.
If not we need to question whether those actions were collectively
sound.

Specifically Steven's post that triggered Etienne's misbehavior is
this:

On Oct 5, 5:22 am, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 14:10:46 -0400, Etienne Robillard wrote:
> > Dear list,
>
> > Due to lack of energy and resources i'm really sad to announce the
> > removal ofnotmmfrom pypi and bitbucket.
>
> Well that's just rude. Even if you don't intend to maintain the software
> any more, why are you removing it from pypi? Since you say you are a fan
> of Open Source software, just flag it as unmaintained and leave it for
> somebody else to pick up.
>
> If you are going to abandon the project, release it on PyPI with a dual
> MIT and GPL licence, and let it be taken over by somebody else.
>
> If you were looking for sympathy here, starting off by removing your
> project from free hosting, then complaining that you can't pay for the
> non-free hosting, was NOT the right way to do so.
:

> Steven

I read Etienne as saying: 'I need money (or at least some sympathy)'
Steven is unequivocally saying 'You are not getting it from here'

Technically he is correct; humanly I am not so sure.

[I have a personal regret that I did not rebut Steven's rudeness with
a '... that is not necessarily the view of the whole group...'
I hesitated to do so because I am not adept at giving sympathy without
giving false hope and keeping the post at reasonable length.
Anyhow this (too long) post is an attempt at correcting that.]

In the earlier (Quora-thread) Terry Reedy's voice was most balanced
and sane; unfortunately covered in the 'dog-pile' of all the rest.

Hopefully he will put in his word here as well.
[And Zero thank you for starting this thread]

Rusi

- http://blog.languager.org


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 23:01:05 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 23:01:05 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJX8S6ZKNSBDUdxuCwcsPYGZCVPzEVgdgEyEtN2x=_-how@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 10:45 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 14:10:17 -0700, rurpy wrote:
>
>> On 10/16/2012 10:49 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> > On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:27:48 -0700, rurpy wrote about trolls and
>>> > dicks:
>>
>> No, I wrote about trolls.  "dicks" is a highly emotive and almost
>> totally subjective word
>
> As opposed to "troll", which is unemotional and objective? Not.
>
>
>> that I would not use in a rational discussion.
>
> I would. If someone is acting like a dick, why not call them by the word
> that most accurately describes their behaviour?
>
> I see nothing troll like in Dwight "call me David, but I can't be
> bothered changing my signature" Hutto's behaviour. He doesn't seem to be
> trolling, in either sense: he doesn't appear to be making provocative
> statements for the purpose of making people think, nor does he seem to be
> making inflammatory statements to get a rise out of people. He seems to
> genuinely want to help people, in a clumsy, aggressive, and I believe
> often intoxicated way.
>
> So it seems to me that you are wrongly applying the term "troll" as a
> meaningless pejorative to anyone who behaves badly.
>
>
>> Perhaps you were trying to be amusing?
>
> Certainly not.
>
>
>>>> >> The best advise is to ignore such posts and encourage others to do
>>>> >> the same.
> [...]
>>> > How should somebody distinguish between "I am being shunned for
>>> > acting like a dick", and "I have not received any responses because
>>> > nobody has anything to add"?
>>
>> Because you sent them private email telling them that?
>
> My, what a ... unique ... concept of "ignore such posts" you have.
>
> So far, this has been the best advice you have given so far. My opinion
> is that there is a graduated response to dickish behaviour:
>
> * send a message telling the person they are acting unacceptably,
>   preferably privately on a first offence to avoid public shaming
>   (when possible -- lots of people aren't privately contactable
>   for many reasons other than that they are trolls);
>
> * if the behaviour continues, make a public comment condemning
>   that behaviour generally without engaging directly in a debate
>   or "tit-for-tat" argument with the person.
>
>
> And for those who value their own peace and quiet over the community
> benefit:
>
> * block or killfile posts from that person so they don't
>   have to be seen, preferably publicly.
>
> When I killfile someone, I tend to make it expire after a month or three,
> just in case they mend their ways. Call me Mr Softy if you like.
>
>
> [...]
>>> > If I believe that your behaviour ("giving lousy advice") is causing
>>> > great harm to this community, and *I don't say anything*, how will
>>> > you know to change your behaviour?
>>
>> If that was how you thought, then you would be someone I hope would
>> follow my advice.  Because you would clearly seem to be unable to
>> distinguish between difference of opinion on a subject relevant to the
>> newsgroup, and inflammatory trolling. Further you see the situation in
>> extreme terms ("*great harm*") and one in which only a single point of
>> view (your's) is acceptable.
>
> As opposed to only your opinion being acceptable? Why on earth should I
> follow your advice if I think it is bad advice?
>
> We can't both be right[1]. We can't simultaneously confront bad
> behaviour, and ignore bad behaviour. I think your advice is bad, and has
> the potential to kill this community. You think my advice is bad, and has
> the potential to kill this community. Except that you've made a 180-
> degree turn from your advice to "ignore" bad behaviour, but apparently
> didn't notice that *sending private emails* is not by any definition
> "ignoring". So apparently you don't actually agree with your own advice.
>
>
>> You would be bordering on delusional by
>> thinking your post would somehow change my "behavior".
>
> It's not necessarily about changing your behaviour. (Well, in this case,
> it's less about you than about Dwight Hutto specifically and badly-
> behaved posters in general.) It's about sending a message that the
> behaviour is unacceptable.
>
> The primary purpose of that message is to discourage *others* from
> following in the same behaviour. Nothing will kill a forum faster than
> trolls and dicks feeding off each other, until there is nothing left but
> trolls and dicks. A single troll doesn't do much harm -- few of them have
> the energy to spam a news group for long periods, drowning out useful
> posts.
>
>
>> But even if you had a more rational response
>
> *raises eyebrow*
>
>> and saved that reaction for
>> actual trolling and not someone who simply disagreed with you, I ask
>> again, what makes you think your response will change that troll's
>> behavior, when in actuality, your kind of response is exactly what most
>> trolls hope to elicit?  Did it help in the case I mentioned?
>
> As I said, I do not believe that Dwight Hutto is a troll. I believe he is
> merely badly behaved. And yes, I do believe that confronting him has
> changed his behaviour, at least for now.
>
> Not immediately, of course. His immediate response was to retaliate and
> defend himself. Naturally -- very few people are self-honest enough to
> admit, even to themselves, when they are behaving badly.
>
> But in the intervening weeks, we, this community, has done anything but
> ignore him. We're still talking about him *right now*. We're just not
> necessarily talking *to* him. And the few times that people do respond
> directly to Dwight, they make it very clear that their response is
> guarded and on sufferance.
>
> And there have been no further outbursts from Dwight, at least not so
> far. So, yes, I think we've gotten the message across.
>
>
>>> > How will others know that I do not agree with your advice?
>>
>> Why is it so important to you that I and others know what you think?
>> Since you are (usually) a reasonable person I don't need to read your
>> explicit pronouncement to assume that you disagree with some repugnant
>> post.
>
> You are assuming we all agree on what is repugnant. That pretty much
> demonstrates that you have missed my point. Without drawing explicit
> boundaries, how do people know what we consider beyond the boundary of
> acceptable behaviour?
>
> The people in this forum come from all over the world. We're not all
> white, middle-class[2], Australian, educated, progressive/liberals like
> me. We're black, Chinese, German, conservative, Muslim, Christian,
> atheist, socialist, anarchist, fascist, etc. We come from all sorts of
> cultures, where families are run like democracies, or where they are run
> like dictatorships where the father is the head of the household even of
> his adult children; cultures that consider euthanasia beyond the pale and
> those that believe that there are fates worse than death; cultures where
> smacking children is an abomination and cultures where it is simply
> common sense; cultures that condone honour-killings and those that don't;
> cultures where blowing yourself up to kill the enemy is thought to be an
> act of bravery, and cultures where pushing a button to kill strangers a
> thousand miles away is thought to be an honourable act of military
> service.
>
> What on earth makes you think we would possibly agree on what posts are
> repugnant without talking about it?
>
> I'm sure that there are some people here -- and you might be one of them
> -- that consider my use of the word "dick" unacceptable. And others who
> consider dick a mild word and far less offensive than the euphemisms
> others might prefer.
>
> Your opinion that we should all, somehow, agree on acceptable behaviour
> is culturally self-centred and rather naive. I'm far more offended by
> Dwight's habit of posting incoherently while pissed[3] than I am by his
> possibly-or-possibly-not racist punning. But I don't expect everyone to
> agree with me.
>
>
>
>
> [1] However, we can both be wrong. There's no reason to think that there
> is *any* strategy to respond to bad behaviour that will work all the
> time, against all people.
>
> [2] Nearly everybody thinks they're middle-class, except the filthy rich
> and the filthy poor.
>
> [3] I don't give a damn what mind-altering chemicals Dwight wishes to
> indulge in, so long as he does it in private.
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Bravo!...Encore, Encore!!!


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 23:30:00 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 20:30:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: list comprehension question
References: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2308.1350440069.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10253759-6028-4e64-afe1-f53efb432b90@q7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 17, 7:14?am, Dave Angel <d... at davea.name> wrote:
> On 10/16/2012 09:54 PM, Kevin Anthony wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I've been teaching myself list comprehension, and i've run across something
> > i'm not able to convert.
>
> > here's the original code for matrix multiplcation
>
> > retmatrix = Matrix(self.__row,other.__col)
> > for m in range(0,retmatrix.__row):
> > ? ? for n in range(0,retmatrix.__col):
> > ? ? ? ? product = 0
> > ? ? ? ? for p in range(1,self.__col+1):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? product += (self.__matrix[m][p] * other.__matrix[p][n])
> > ? ? ? ? retmatrix.__matrix[m][n] = product
>
> > Here is what i have so far:
> > retmatrix.__matrix = [[ product = product + (self.__matrix[m][p]*
> > other.__matrix[p][n])
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if product else self.__matrix[m][p]* other.__matrix[p][n])
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?for p in range(0,self.col)
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?for n in range(0,self.col)]
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?for m in range(0,self.__row)]
>
> > But i know that isn't correct, can someone nudge my in the right direction?
>
> The biggest thing to learn about list comprehensions is when not to use
> them. ?I can't imagine how your latter version (even if correct) is
> clearer than the first.
>
> --
>
> DaveA

Try rewriting using dot

from operator import mul
def dot(p,q):
  return reduce(mul, [x*y for x,y in zip(p,q)])  # the [] can become
()

and avoiding object-orientation (at least to start with)


From kwebb at teradactyl.com  Tue Oct 16 23:47:14 2012
From: kwebb at teradactyl.com (Kristen J. Webb)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:47:14 -0600
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJX8S6ZKNSBDUdxuCwcsPYGZCVPzEVgdgEyEtN2x=_-how@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CA+vVgJX8S6ZKNSBDUdxuCwcsPYGZCVPzEVgdgEyEtN2x=_-how@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <507E2A42.1050906@teradactyl.com>

As a casual observer of this list (and many others)

I can only say...

What the f**k!  I thought that subscribing to
a list would promote education, enlightenment,
and a shared communal effort to make things better
for things (python) related.

It sucks for me to spend so much time filtering this BS.

I will say that my perusal of this list has been
informative.  I also receive more email from this
list than any other I subscribe to.

Let's be honest, does any of this crap have
anything to do with python, it's promotion,
or resolving anything related to making it
one of the most exciting languages I have
ever seen since C?

Jeesh!
K



On 10/16/12 9:01 PM, Dwight Hutto wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 10:45 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 14:10:17 -0700, rurpy wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/16/2012 10:49 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:27:48 -0700, rurpy wrote about trolls and
>>>>> dicks:
>>>
>>> No, I wrote about trolls.  "dicks" is a highly emotive and almost
>>> totally subjective word
>>
>> As opposed to "troll", which is unemotional and objective? Not.
>>
>>
>>> that I would not use in a rational discussion.
>>
>> I would. If someone is acting like a dick, why not call them by the word
>> that most accurately describes their behaviour?
>>
>> I see nothing troll like in Dwight "call me David, but I can't be
>> bothered changing my signature" Hutto's behaviour. He doesn't seem to be
>> trolling, in either sense: he doesn't appear to be making provocative
>> statements for the purpose of making people think, nor does he seem to be
>> making inflammatory statements to get a rise out of people. He seems to
>> genuinely want to help people, in a clumsy, aggressive, and I believe
>> often intoxicated way.
>>
>> So it seems to me that you are wrongly applying the term "troll" as a
>> meaningless pejorative to anyone who behaves badly.
>>
>>
>>> Perhaps you were trying to be amusing?
>>
>> Certainly not.
>>
>>
>>>>>>> The best advise is to ignore such posts and encourage others to do
>>>>>>> the same.
>> [...]
>>>>> How should somebody distinguish between "I am being shunned for
>>>>> acting like a dick", and "I have not received any responses because
>>>>> nobody has anything to add"?
>>>
>>> Because you sent them private email telling them that?
>>
>> My, what a ... unique ... concept of "ignore such posts" you have.
>>
>> So far, this has been the best advice you have given so far. My opinion
>> is that there is a graduated response to dickish behaviour:
>>
>> * send a message telling the person they are acting unacceptably,
>>    preferably privately on a first offence to avoid public shaming
>>    (when possible -- lots of people aren't privately contactable
>>    for many reasons other than that they are trolls);
>>
>> * if the behaviour continues, make a public comment condemning
>>    that behaviour generally without engaging directly in a debate
>>    or "tit-for-tat" argument with the person.
>>
>>
>> And for those who value their own peace and quiet over the community
>> benefit:
>>
>> * block or killfile posts from that person so they don't
>>    have to be seen, preferably publicly.
>>
>> When I killfile someone, I tend to make it expire after a month or three,
>> just in case they mend their ways. Call me Mr Softy if you like.
>>
>>
>> [...]
>>>>> If I believe that your behaviour ("giving lousy advice") is causing
>>>>> great harm to this community, and *I don't say anything*, how will
>>>>> you know to change your behaviour?
>>>
>>> If that was how you thought, then you would be someone I hope would
>>> follow my advice.  Because you would clearly seem to be unable to
>>> distinguish between difference of opinion on a subject relevant to the
>>> newsgroup, and inflammatory trolling. Further you see the situation in
>>> extreme terms ("*great harm*") and one in which only a single point of
>>> view (your's) is acceptable.
>>
>> As opposed to only your opinion being acceptable? Why on earth should I
>> follow your advice if I think it is bad advice?
>>
>> We can't both be right[1]. We can't simultaneously confront bad
>> behaviour, and ignore bad behaviour. I think your advice is bad, and has
>> the potential to kill this community. You think my advice is bad, and has
>> the potential to kill this community. Except that you've made a 180-
>> degree turn from your advice to "ignore" bad behaviour, but apparently
>> didn't notice that *sending private emails* is not by any definition
>> "ignoring". So apparently you don't actually agree with your own advice.
>>
>>
>>> You would be bordering on delusional by
>>> thinking your post would somehow change my "behavior".
>>
>> It's not necessarily about changing your behaviour. (Well, in this case,
>> it's less about you than about Dwight Hutto specifically and badly-
>> behaved posters in general.) It's about sending a message that the
>> behaviour is unacceptable.
>>
>> The primary purpose of that message is to discourage *others* from
>> following in the same behaviour. Nothing will kill a forum faster than
>> trolls and dicks feeding off each other, until there is nothing left but
>> trolls and dicks. A single troll doesn't do much harm -- few of them have
>> the energy to spam a news group for long periods, drowning out useful
>> posts.
>>
>>
>>> But even if you had a more rational response
>>
>> *raises eyebrow*
>>
>>> and saved that reaction for
>>> actual trolling and not someone who simply disagreed with you, I ask
>>> again, what makes you think your response will change that troll's
>>> behavior, when in actuality, your kind of response is exactly what most
>>> trolls hope to elicit?  Did it help in the case I mentioned?
>>
>> As I said, I do not believe that Dwight Hutto is a troll. I believe he is
>> merely badly behaved. And yes, I do believe that confronting him has
>> changed his behaviour, at least for now.
>>
>> Not immediately, of course. His immediate response was to retaliate and
>> defend himself. Naturally -- very few people are self-honest enough to
>> admit, even to themselves, when they are behaving badly.
>>
>> But in the intervening weeks, we, this community, has done anything but
>> ignore him. We're still talking about him *right now*. We're just not
>> necessarily talking *to* him. And the few times that people do respond
>> directly to Dwight, they make it very clear that their response is
>> guarded and on sufferance.
>>
>> And there have been no further outbursts from Dwight, at least not so
>> far. So, yes, I think we've gotten the message across.
>>
>>
>>>>> How will others know that I do not agree with your advice?
>>>
>>> Why is it so important to you that I and others know what you think?
>>> Since you are (usually) a reasonable person I don't need to read your
>>> explicit pronouncement to assume that you disagree with some repugnant
>>> post.
>>
>> You are assuming we all agree on what is repugnant. That pretty much
>> demonstrates that you have missed my point. Without drawing explicit
>> boundaries, how do people know what we consider beyond the boundary of
>> acceptable behaviour?
>>
>> The people in this forum come from all over the world. We're not all
>> white, middle-class[2], Australian, educated, progressive/liberals like
>> me. We're black, Chinese, German, conservative, Muslim, Christian,
>> atheist, socialist, anarchist, fascist, etc. We come from all sorts of
>> cultures, where families are run like democracies, or where they are run
>> like dictatorships where the father is the head of the household even of
>> his adult children; cultures that consider euthanasia beyond the pale and
>> those that believe that there are fates worse than death; cultures where
>> smacking children is an abomination and cultures where it is simply
>> common sense; cultures that condone honour-killings and those that don't;
>> cultures where blowing yourself up to kill the enemy is thought to be an
>> act of bravery, and cultures where pushing a button to kill strangers a
>> thousand miles away is thought to be an honourable act of military
>> service.
>>
>> What on earth makes you think we would possibly agree on what posts are
>> repugnant without talking about it?
>>
>> I'm sure that there are some people here -- and you might be one of them
>> -- that consider my use of the word "dick" unacceptable. And others who
>> consider dick a mild word and far less offensive than the euphemisms
>> others might prefer.
>>
>> Your opinion that we should all, somehow, agree on acceptable behaviour
>> is culturally self-centred and rather naive. I'm far more offended by
>> Dwight's habit of posting incoherently while pissed[3] than I am by his
>> possibly-or-possibly-not racist punning. But I don't expect everyone to
>> agree with me.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [1] However, we can both be wrong. There's no reason to think that there
>> is *any* strategy to respond to bad behaviour that will work all the
>> time, against all people.
>>
>> [2] Nearly everybody thinks they're middle-class, except the filthy rich
>> and the filthy poor.
>>
>> [3] I don't give a damn what mind-altering chemicals Dwight wishes to
>> indulge in, so long as he does it in private.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Steven
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> Bravo!...Encore, Encore!!!
>
>

-- 
This message is NOT encrypted
--------------------------------
Mr. Kristen J. Webb
Chief Technology Officer
Teradactyl LLC.
2301 Yale Blvd. SE.
Suite C7
Albuquerque, NM 87106
Phone: 1-505-338-6000
Email: kwebb at teradactyl.com
Web: http://www.teradactyl.com

	Home of the

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From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Wed Oct 17 00:16:01 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:16:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: overriding equals operation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2273.1350395930.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2273.1350395930.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <30e44a90-34b1-4ed3-97db-9fd76ec61f69@googlegroups.com>

Pradipto Banerjee? 2012?10?16????UTC+8??9?59?05????
> I am trying to define class, where if I use a statement a = b, then instead of "a" pointing to the same instance as "b", it should point to a copy of "b", but I can't get it right.
> 
> 
> 
> Currently, I have the following:
> 
> 
> 
> ----
> 
> 
> 
> class myclass(object):
> 
>         def __init__(self, name='')
> 
>                 self.name = name
> 
> 
> 
>         def copy(self):
> 
>                 newvar = myclass(self.name)
> 
>                 return newvar
> 
> 
> 
>         def __eq__(self, other):
> 
>                 if instance(other, myclass):
> 
>                         return self == other.copy()
> 
>                 return NotImplemented
> 
> ----
> 
> 
> 
> Now if I try:
> 
> 
> 
> >>> a=myclass()
> 
> >>> a.name = 'test'
> 
> >>> b=a
> 
What you really want is b=a.copy() 
not b=a to disentangle two objects.

__eq__ is used in the comparison operation. 
 


> >>> b.name
> 
> 'test'
> 
> >>> b.name = 'test2'
> 
> >>> a.name
> 
> 'test2'
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted b=a to make a new copy of "a", but then when I assigned b.name = 'test2', even a.name became 'test2'.
> 
> 
> 
> How can I rectify my code to make the __eq__() behave like copy()?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  This communication is for informational purposes only. It is not intended to be, nor should it be construed or used as, financial, legal, tax or investment advice or an offer to sell, or a solicitation of any offer to buy, an interest in any fund advised by Ada Investment Management LP, the Investment advisor.  Any offer or solicitation of an investment in any of the Funds may be made only by delivery of such Funds confidential offering materials to authorized prospective investors.  An investment in any of the Funds is not suitable for all investors.  No representation is made that the Funds will or are likely to achieve their objectives, or that any investor will or is likely to achieve results comparable to those shown, or will make any profit at all or will be able to avoid incurring substantial losses.  Performance results are net of applicable fees, are unaudited and reflect reinvestment of income and profits.  Past performance is no guarantee of future results. All financial data and other information are not warranted as to completeness or accuracy and are subject to change without notice.
> 
> 
> 
> Any comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect those of Ada Investment Management LP and its affiliates. This transmission may contain information that is confidential, legally privileged, and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is strictly prohibited. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format.



From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Wed Oct 17 00:16:01 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:16:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: overriding equals operation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2273.1350395930.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2273.1350395930.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <30e44a90-34b1-4ed3-97db-9fd76ec61f69@googlegroups.com>

Pradipto Banerjee? 2012?10?16????UTC+8??9?59?05????
> I am trying to define class, where if I use a statement a = b, then instead of "a" pointing to the same instance as "b", it should point to a copy of "b", but I can't get it right.
> 
> 
> 
> Currently, I have the following:
> 
> 
> 
> ----
> 
> 
> 
> class myclass(object):
> 
>         def __init__(self, name='')
> 
>                 self.name = name
> 
> 
> 
>         def copy(self):
> 
>                 newvar = myclass(self.name)
> 
>                 return newvar
> 
> 
> 
>         def __eq__(self, other):
> 
>                 if instance(other, myclass):
> 
>                         return self == other.copy()
> 
>                 return NotImplemented
> 
> ----
> 
> 
> 
> Now if I try:
> 
> 
> 
> >>> a=myclass()
> 
> >>> a.name = 'test'
> 
> >>> b=a
> 
What you really want is b=a.copy() 
not b=a to disentangle two objects.

__eq__ is used in the comparison operation. 
 


> >>> b.name
> 
> 'test'
> 
> >>> b.name = 'test2'
> 
> >>> a.name
> 
> 'test2'
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted b=a to make a new copy of "a", but then when I assigned b.name = 'test2', even a.name became 'test2'.
> 
> 
> 
> How can I rectify my code to make the __eq__() behave like copy()?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  This communication is for informational purposes only. It is not intended to be, nor should it be construed or used as, financial, legal, tax or investment advice or an offer to sell, or a solicitation of any offer to buy, an interest in any fund advised by Ada Investment Management LP, the Investment advisor.  Any offer or solicitation of an investment in any of the Funds may be made only by delivery of such Funds confidential offering materials to authorized prospective investors.  An investment in any of the Funds is not suitable for all investors.  No representation is made that the Funds will or are likely to achieve their objectives, or that any investor will or is likely to achieve results comparable to those shown, or will make any profit at all or will be able to avoid incurring substantial losses.  Performance results are net of applicable fees, are unaudited and reflect reinvestment of income and profits.  Past performance is no guarantee of future results. All financial data and other information are not warranted as to completeness or accuracy and are subject to change without notice.
> 
> 
> 
> Any comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect those of Ada Investment Management LP and its affiliates. This transmission may contain information that is confidential, legally privileged, and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is strictly prohibited. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format.



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 00:25:38 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:25:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CA+vVgJX8S6ZKNSBDUdxuCwcsPYGZCVPzEVgdgEyEtN2x=_-how@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2314.1350446041.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b3d2a31-a901-49c5-8843-da6e6f639c42@ro10g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 17, 1:54?pm, "Kristen J. Webb" <kw... at teradactyl.com> wrote:
> Let's be honest, does any of this crap have
> anything to do with python, it's promotion,
> or resolving anything related to making it
> one of the most exciting languages I have
> ever seen since C?

Python is more than the language, it's the community as well.
Discussing acceptable behaviour on a community mailing list is highly
relevant. Wanting to stop behaviour that could potentially drive
people away from the language is very much about promotion.

> It sucks for me to spend so much time filtering this BS.

Yet you then chose to participate in a discussion about it. Because
that's what people do to discuss suitable behaviour.

I really don't get people who feel they need to share their opinion
when that opinion is that other people shouldn't share theirs.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Oct 17 00:33:14 2012
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 15:33:14 +1100
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CA+vVgJX8S6ZKNSBDUdxuCwcsPYGZCVPzEVgdgEyEtN2x=_-how@mail.gmail.com>
	<507E2A42.1050906@teradactyl.com>
Message-ID: <7wy5j5hg51.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

"Kristen J. Webb" <kwebb at teradactyl.com> writes:

> What the f**k! I thought that subscribing to a list would promote
> education, enlightenment, and a shared communal effort to make things
> better for things (python) related.

Yes, that's the focus of this thread: how best to engage in a shared
communal effort to make things better for Python-related discussion.

> It sucks for me to spend so much time filtering this BS.

The thread helpfully tells you what it's about in the subject field, and
remains remarkably on-topic by that description. Filter appropriately.

If it sucks for you to receive a high-volume discussion forum in your
email, you may want to use a better email client with more sophisticated
filtering capability. Or you can subscribe to the forum as a Usenet
newsgroup, <URL:news:comp.lang.python>.

> Let's be honest, does any of this crap have anything to do with
> python, it's promotion,

Yes, I think this discussion does have direct relevance to supporting
the promotion of Python. My views on how have been made elsewhere in
this same thread.

-- 
 \     ?Teach a man to make fire, and he will be warm for a day. Set a |
  `\       man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.? |
_o__)                                                 ?John A. Hrastar |
Ben Finney



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 00:43:04 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:43:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CA+vVgJX8S6ZKNSBDUdxuCwcsPYGZCVPzEVgdgEyEtN2x=_-how@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2314.1350446041.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4b3d2a31-a901-49c5-8843-da6e6f639c42@ro10g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <80d4f36f-91e1-48cf-a023-c7528c72d717@6g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 17, 9:25?am, alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 17, 1:54?pm, "Kristen J. Webb" <kw... at teradactyl.com> wrote:
>
> > It sucks for me to spend so much time filtering this BS.
>
> Yet you then chose to participate in a discussion about it. Because
> that's what people do to discuss suitable behaviour.
>
> I really don't get people who feel they need to share their opinion
> when that opinion is that other people shouldn't share theirs.

Ha Ha!
Let me try to restate alex without the barb.

What exactly do you (Kristen) find to be BS?

If its the one-line endorsement from David to Steven, Ive no comment
or opinion
If its the hundreds of lines of Steven's post, it would be good if
your mail-quoting singles that out.
If its Zero's OP then I am sorry, but many of us think that something
needs to be said.

In case its the length of Steven's post here's my attempt at improving
his S/N ration:
There are dicks and there are trolls. Behavior can be improved by
calling right things by the right names.

[My addition]:
1. There are no dicks and trolls; there is dick-ing and trolling
2. jmf's objections to python's unicode is classic trolling. David's
abusive language is dicking.
Using the right name helps to find the right strategy


From kevin.s.anthony at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 00:43:09 2012
From: kevin.s.anthony at gmail.com (Kevin Anthony)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 00:43:09 -0400
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <507E145E.9060008@davea.name>
References: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507E145E.9060008@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CA+C4C6cjha4bMZ9gyx5fTp0c_nfFQxRGu31dGNMjgHQBu73=ig@mail.gmail.com>

Is it not true that list comprehension is much faster the the for loops?

If it is not the correct way of doing this, i appoligize.
Like i said, I'm learing list comprehension.

Thanks
Kevin
On Oct 16, 2012 10:14 PM, "Dave Angel" <d at davea.name> wrote:

> On 10/16/2012 09:54 PM, Kevin Anthony wrote:
> > I've been teaching myself list comprehension, and i've run across
> something
> > i'm not able to convert.
> >
> > here's the original code for matrix multiplcation
> >
> > retmatrix = Matrix(self.__row,other.__col)
> > for m in range(0,retmatrix.__row):
> >     for n in range(0,retmatrix.__col):
> >         product = 0
> >         for p in range(1,self.__col+1):
> >             product += (self.__matrix[m][p] * other.__matrix[p][n])
> >         retmatrix.__matrix[m][n] = product
> >
> > Here is what i have so far:
> > retmatrix.__matrix = [[ product = product + (self.__matrix[m][p]*
> > other.__matrix[p][n])
> >                  if product else self.__matrix[m][p]*
> other.__matrix[p][n])
> >                  for p in range(0,self.col)
> >                  for n in range(0,self.col)]
> >                  for m in range(0,self.__row)]
> >
> > But i know that isn't correct, can someone nudge my in the right
> direction?
> >
> >
>
> The biggest thing to learn about list comprehensions is when not to use
> them.  I can't imagine how your latter version (even if correct) is
> clearer than the first.
>
>
>
> --
>
> DaveA
>
>
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From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 01:09:08 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 01:09:08 -0400
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <CA+C4C6cjha4bMZ9gyx5fTp0c_nfFQxRGu31dGNMjgHQBu73=ig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507E145E.9060008@davea.name>
	<CA+C4C6cjha4bMZ9gyx5fTp0c_nfFQxRGu31dGNMjgHQBu73=ig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJU-4ufxfLDLbF-WMkcR8Ra7-8haeHh_py2Qr_+rZUfo_A@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 12:43 AM, Kevin Anthony
<kevin.s.anthony at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is it not true that list comprehension is much faster the the for loops?
>
> If it is not the correct way of doing this, i appoligize.
> Like i said, I'm learing list comprehension.
>
I thought it was matrix multiplication mixed with list comprehension.

Check this out real quick from the docs for list comprehension, but if
it's a mixture of matrix multi, and list comp, then reply back.

http://docs.python.org/tutorial/datastructures.html#list-comprehensions


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Oct 17 01:15:03 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 01:15:03 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <507E2A42.1050906@teradactyl.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CA+vVgJX8S6ZKNSBDUdxuCwcsPYGZCVPzEVgdgEyEtN2x=_-how@mail.gmail.com>
	<507E2A42.1050906@teradactyl.com>
Message-ID: <k5lesu$m4$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/16/2012 11:47 PM, Kristen J. Webb wrote:

> I will say that my perusal of this list has been
> informative.  I also receive more email from this
> list than any other I subscribe to.

You could instead access it as a newsgroup via news.gmane.org. That 
keeps posts isolated and you only download those item you request. News 
readers should collapse threads to a single line and allow you to mark 
all as read.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 01:17:02 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 01:17:02 -0400
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJU-4ufxfLDLbF-WMkcR8Ra7-8haeHh_py2Qr_+rZUfo_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507E145E.9060008@davea.name>
	<CA+C4C6cjha4bMZ9gyx5fTp0c_nfFQxRGu31dGNMjgHQBu73=ig@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJU-4ufxfLDLbF-WMkcR8Ra7-8haeHh_py2Qr_+rZUfo_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJUU1mBFP5CyS=8PUVM5qKa8E6+sAhEm72XSnN0X0QkMug@mail.gmail.com>

And here is two more to read up on:

http://www.scipy.org/FAQ#head-045cba7978d75ec548822222150fa6ad308e325a

www.python-course.eu/matrix_arithmetic.php
-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Oct 17 01:21:36 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 01:21:36 -0400
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5lf97$62a$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/16/2012 9:54 PM, Kevin Anthony wrote:
> I've been teaching myself list comprehension, and i've run across
> something i'm not able to convert.

list comprehensions specifically abbreviate the code that they are 
(essentially) equivalent to.

res = []
for item in source:
   res.append(f(item))
res

<==>

[f(item) for item in source]

Matrix multiplication does not fit the pattern above. The reduction is 
number addition rather than list appending.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 01:25:16 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 22:25:16 -0700
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJVVFiZbtPEXA1Gpa_yg8g9e=oN0gyF=b8jnGnUsSPZ6vA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507D7540.9010303@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVVFiZbtPEXA1Gpa_yg8g9e=oN0gyF=b8jnGnUsSPZ6vA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <94BCE27A-C403-4339-B0A6-DFCCAF859BDD@gmail.com>

> 
> You haven't been on lists long enough then to have seen some real
> flame warts...no offense.

No offense taken, it's why I said it in the first place ;) Having said that, generally engaging in flame wars solves nothing and sheds a negative light on the individuals who take part in it.

> It's in a design phase, and I'm asking the local experts to critique
> it, and even be harsh.

You're not a designer. There's nothing at all wrong with that (I'm not either for the record). Most aren't good at both left *and* right-brained functions. My sincere suggestion is pick which aspect of development piques your interest the most and follow that. Delegate the other aspects to others who are good at what they do.

Remember.. You're asking for feedback here :)

> It was meant as more of a commercial to show a little more umph in my
> site presentation, and I'm working on reducing the size through
> several different means.

It's a bad way of advertising your business. In this day and age, there will likely be less people looking for potential contractors on desktop systems than on mobile devices. As such, you want to make sure that your site has very little in the way of heavy graphics (unless there's a version that the user gets redirected to that's mobile-friendly). Take advantage of client-side rendering where possible.

> I know this, and I'm trying to reduce it, but show something that's appealing.

My point was that it shouldn't be there *at all*. Automatically playing music is widely thought of as being annoying and does absolutely nothing at all for your business. You're not selling games, you're not selling DJ services. I can guarantee that you will turn away more prospective business by having the music there in the first place than not having any at all.

> I kind of like my designs, and they're being refined through these
> conversations.

I like my designs too. However, I realized *long* ago that I'm not good at them. I even grew to dislike even doing design work because of how much extra time and effort it took to develop something decent rather than just concentrating on what I was good at. My designs wouldn't hold up compared to other professional entities and unless there are remarkable improvements, yours won't either.

> I like w3schools.com, and I know that it's a rough draft, and so
> should my critics.

w3schools is generally thought of as being a bad resource. Take a read through http://w3fools.com (there are many other resources, that was just the first one that popped up on Google search). Udacity has a high powered academic faculty. Coursera is another great resource. Both have content that you'll never get from resources like w3schools. Open higher learning is where it's at.

> I like to work alone, and his is an attempt to get others in the OS
> community to comment.

Working alone is almost always the worst thing that you can do if you're new (or newer) to development, design, user experience or any combination thereof. Surrounding yourself with people smarter than you is the best way to learn and grow. Sure, you can attempt to get some of that over mailing lists and the like, but nothing will *ever* beat in-person environments.



From clinicalfilm at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 01:35:29 2012
From: clinicalfilm at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JLQu9Cw0LTQuNC80LjRgCDQn9GL0LvQtdCy?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 22:35:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tkinter how to access the widget by name
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2244.1350339981.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <40621ce6-1b68-4cfa-8baf-cbfefce4f32b@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2244.1350339981.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fcc0cef6-539b-4b00-abf9-163ba8cee489@googlegroups.com>

???????, 16 ??????? 2012??., 2:26:22 UTC+4 ???????????? Prasad, Ramit ???????:
> ???????? ????? wrote:
> 
> > I'm a little teapot ... himself the question: if I want to appeal to the widget, knowing his name... ?
> 
> > 
> 
> > # appropriated the name of the widget
> 
> > label = Label(frame, width = 40, text='text', name = 'name')
> 
> > ...
> 
> > name_='name'
> 
> > configure(name_)
> 
> > ...
> 
> > def configure(name_)
> 
> >         #And how can that be?
> 
> >         # At least let the text you want to change ....
> 
> > 
> 
> > I beg you ..!!!!
> 
> > --
> 
> 
> 
> I am unfamiliar with Tkinter, so this might not be very helpful.
> 
> 
> 
> Usually with the GUI I have created before I uses classes and store 
> 
> the widgets inside the classes. That makes it easier to use
> 
> `self.widgetname` or `getattr(self, widgetname)`. If that is not
> 
> something you can instead store the attributes in a list/dictionary.
> 
> In both cases make sure not to have multiple widgets created with
> 
> the same name.
> 
> 
> 
> Note the following is all untested and should be considered pseudo-code.
> 
> 
> 
> widgets = {}
> 
> label = Label(frame, width = 40, text='text', name = 'name')
> 
> widgets['name'] = label
> 
> 
> 
> def configure(name_):
> 
>     widget = widgets[name_] 
> 
> 
> 
> OR
> 
> 
> 
> widgets = []
> 
> label = Label(frame, width = 40, text='text', name = 'name')
> 
> widgets.append( label )
> 
> 
> 
> def configure(name_):
> 
>     found = False
> 
>     for w in widgets:
> 
>          if w.name == name_: # No idea how to get name from Tk widget
> 
>                found = True
> 
>                break
> 
>      if found:
> 
>         # configure here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ramit Prasad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
> 
> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
> 
> securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
> 
> confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
> 
> available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.


ok thanks, that this method is suitable in full: "widgets.append( label )" , ?lthough at the beginning wanted to access the widget by its internal name, but I left this venture )).


From clinicalfilm at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 01:35:29 2012
From: clinicalfilm at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JLQu9Cw0LTQuNC80LjRgCDQn9GL0LvQtdCy?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 22:35:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tkinter how to access the widget by name
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2244.1350339981.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <40621ce6-1b68-4cfa-8baf-cbfefce4f32b@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2244.1350339981.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fcc0cef6-539b-4b00-abf9-163ba8cee489@googlegroups.com>

???????, 16 ??????? 2012??., 2:26:22 UTC+4 ???????????? Prasad, Ramit ???????:
> ???????? ????? wrote:
> 
> > I'm a little teapot ... himself the question: if I want to appeal to the widget, knowing his name... ?
> 
> > 
> 
> > # appropriated the name of the widget
> 
> > label = Label(frame, width = 40, text='text', name = 'name')
> 
> > ...
> 
> > name_='name'
> 
> > configure(name_)
> 
> > ...
> 
> > def configure(name_)
> 
> >         #And how can that be?
> 
> >         # At least let the text you want to change ....
> 
> > 
> 
> > I beg you ..!!!!
> 
> > --
> 
> 
> 
> I am unfamiliar with Tkinter, so this might not be very helpful.
> 
> 
> 
> Usually with the GUI I have created before I uses classes and store 
> 
> the widgets inside the classes. That makes it easier to use
> 
> `self.widgetname` or `getattr(self, widgetname)`. If that is not
> 
> something you can instead store the attributes in a list/dictionary.
> 
> In both cases make sure not to have multiple widgets created with
> 
> the same name.
> 
> 
> 
> Note the following is all untested and should be considered pseudo-code.
> 
> 
> 
> widgets = {}
> 
> label = Label(frame, width = 40, text='text', name = 'name')
> 
> widgets['name'] = label
> 
> 
> 
> def configure(name_):
> 
>     widget = widgets[name_] 
> 
> 
> 
> OR
> 
> 
> 
> widgets = []
> 
> label = Label(frame, width = 40, text='text', name = 'name')
> 
> widgets.append( label )
> 
> 
> 
> def configure(name_):
> 
>     found = False
> 
>     for w in widgets:
> 
>          if w.name == name_: # No idea how to get name from Tk widget
> 
>                found = True
> 
>                break
> 
>      if found:
> 
>         # configure here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ramit Prasad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
> 
> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
> 
> securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
> 
> confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
> 
> available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.


ok thanks, that this method is suitable in full: "widgets.append( label )" , ?lthough at the beginning wanted to access the widget by its internal name, but I left this venture )).


From tharanga.abeyseela at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 01:47:09 2012
From: tharanga.abeyseela at gmail.com (Tharanga Abeyseela)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 16:47:09 +1100
Subject: ElementTree Issue - Search and remove elements
Message-ID: <CAOMTrffg175xYWwt0GBKXZQPKEYn1hMkbEYqzu8C2AL1EAaYoQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Guys,

I need to remove the parent node, if a particular match found.

ex:


<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1" standalone="yes"?>
<Feed xmlns="http://schemas.xxxx.xx/xx/2011/06/13/xx">
    <TVEpisode>
        <Provider>0x5</Provider>
        <ItemId>http://fxxxxxxl</ItemId>
        <Title>WWE</Title>
        <SortTitle>WWE </SortTitle>
        <Description>WWE</Description>
        <IsUserGenerated>false</IsUserGenerated>
        <Images>
            <Image>
                <ImagePurpose>BoxArt</ImagePurpose>
                <Url>https://xxxxxx.xx/@006548-thumb.jpg</Url>
            </Image>
        </Images>
        <LastModifiedDate>2012-10-16T00:00:19.814+11:00</LastModifiedDate>
        <Genres>
            <Genre>xxxxx</Genre>
        </Genres>
        <ParentalControl>
            <System>xxxx</System>
            <Rating>M</Rating>


if i found <Rating>NC</Rating>, i need to remove the <TVEpisode> from
the XML. i have TVseries,Movies,and several items. (they also have
Rating element). i need to remove all if i found the NC keyword.inside
<Ratging>


im using following code.

when i do the following on python shell  i can see the result (NC,M,etc)

>>> x[1].text
'NC'

but when i do this inside the script, im getting the following error.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./test.py", line 10, in ?
    x = child.find('Rating').text
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'text'


but how should i remove the parent node if i found the string "NC" i
need to do this for all elements (TVEpisode,Movies,TVshow etc)
how can i use python to remove the parent node if that string found.
(not only TVEpisodes, but others as well)


#!/usr/bin/env python

import elementtree.ElementTree as ET

tree = ET.parse('test.xml')
root = tree.getroot()


for child in root.findall(".//{http://schemas.CCC.com/CCC/2011/06/13/CC}Rating"):
       x = child.find('Rating').text
        if child[1].text == 'NC':
                print "found"
               root.remove('TVEpisode') ?????
tree.write('output.xml')


Really appreciate your thoughts on this.

Thanks in advance,
Tharanga


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 01:51:04 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 01:51:04 -0400
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <94BCE27A-C403-4339-B0A6-DFCCAF859BDD@gmail.com>
References: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507D7540.9010303@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVVFiZbtPEXA1Gpa_yg8g9e=oN0gyF=b8jnGnUsSPZ6vA@mail.gmail.com>
	<94BCE27A-C403-4339-B0A6-DFCCAF859BDD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJVz+4SBv3BfR=-UGSBF0iA4sCop+ATy-iE8L7_gcLUm2w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 1:25 AM, Demian Brecht <demianbrecht at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> You haven't been on lists long enough then to have seen some real
>> flame warts...no offense.
>
> No offense taken, it's why I said it in the first place ;) Having said that, generally engaging in flame wars solves nothing and sheds a negative light on the individuals who take part in it.
>
>> It's in a design phase, and I'm asking the local experts to critique
>> it, and even be harsh.
>
> You're not a designer. There's nothing at all wrong with that (I'm not either for the record). Most aren't good at both left *and* right-brained functions. My sincere suggestion is pick which aspect of development piques your interest the most and follow that. Delegate the other aspects to others who are good at what they do.
>
> Remember.. You're asking for feedback here :)
>
>> It was meant as more of a commercial to show a little more umph in my
>> site presentation, and I'm working on reducing the size through
>> several different means.
>
> It's a bad way of advertising your business. In this day and age, there will likely be less people looking for potential contractors on desktop systems than on mobile devices. As such, you want to make sure that your site has very little in the way of heavy graphics (unless there's a version that the user gets redirected to that's mobile-friendly). Take advantage of client-side rendering where possible.
>
>> I know this, and I'm trying to reduce it, but show something that's appealing.
>
> My point was that it shouldn't be there *at all*. Automatically playing music is widely thought of as being annoying and does absolutely nothing at all for your business. You're not selling games, you're not selling DJ services. I can guarantee that you will turn away more prospective business by having the music there in the first place than not having any at all.
>
>> I kind of like my designs, and they're being refined through these
>> conversations.
>
> I like my designs too. However, I realized *long* ago that I'm not good at them. I even grew to dislike even doing design work because of how much extra time and effort it took to develop something decent rather than just concentrating on what I was good at. My designs wouldn't hold up compared to other professional entities and unless there are remarkable improvements, yours won't either.
>
>> I like w3schools.com, and I know that it's a rough draft, and so
>> should my critics.
>
> w3schools is generally thought of as being a bad resource. Take a read through http://w3fools.com (there are many other resources, that was just the first one that popped up on Google search). Udacity has a high powered academic faculty. Coursera is another great resource. Both have content that you'll never get from resources like w3schools. Open higher learning is where it's at.
>
>> I like to work alone, and his is an attempt to get others in the OS
>> community to comment.
>
> Working alone is almost always the worst thing that you can do if you're new (or newer) to development, design, user experience or any combination thereof. Surrounding yourself with people smarter than you is the best way to learn and grow. Sure, you can attempt to get some of that over mailing lists and the like, but nothing will *ever* beat in-person environments.
>

This is my prototype portfolio for freelancing. If you have an honest
critique, then what, in your opinion, am I good at?

https://www.odesk.com/users/~01710ac049863018eb


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Wed Oct 17 02:00:00 2012
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:00:00 +0200
Subject: ElementTree Issue - Search and remove elements
In-Reply-To: <CAOMTrffg175xYWwt0GBKXZQPKEYn1hMkbEYqzu8C2AL1EAaYoQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOMTrffg175xYWwt0GBKXZQPKEYn1hMkbEYqzu8C2AL1EAaYoQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5lhgv$l6v$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hi,

note that it's best to reply to responses you get, rather than starting a
new thread on the same topic. It helps in building up context and in
keeping details together at one point in the archive for users who run into
similar problems later.

Tharanga Abeyseela, 17.10.2012 07:47:
> I need to remove the parent node, if a particular match found.
> 
> ex:
> 
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1" standalone="yes"?>
> <Feed xmlns="http://schemas.xxxx.xx/xx/2011/06/13/xx">
>     <TVEpisode>
>         <Provider>0x5</Provider>
>         <ItemId>http://fxxxxxxl</ItemId>
>         <Title>WWE</Title>
>         <SortTitle>WWE </SortTitle>
>         <Description>WWE</Description>
>         <IsUserGenerated>false</IsUserGenerated>
>         <Images>
>             <Image>
>                 <ImagePurpose>BoxArt</ImagePurpose>
>                 <Url>https://xxxxxx.xx/@006548-thumb.jpg</Url>
>             </Image>
>         </Images>
>         <LastModifiedDate>2012-10-16T00:00:19.814+11:00</LastModifiedDate>
>         <Genres>
>             <Genre>xxxxx</Genre>
>         </Genres>
>         <ParentalControl>
>             <System>xxxx</System>
>             <Rating>M</Rating>
> 
> 
> if i found <Rating>NC</Rating>, i need to remove the <TVEpisode> from
> the XML. i have TVseries,Movies,and several items. (they also have
> Rating element). i need to remove all if i found the NC keyword.inside
> <Ratging>
> 
> 
> im using following code.
> 
> when i do the following on python shell  i can see the result (NC,M,etc)
> 
> >>> x[1].text
> 'NC'
> 
> but when i do this inside the script, im getting the following error.
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "./test.py", line 10, in ?
>     x = child.find('Rating').text
> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'text'
> 
> 
> but how should i remove the parent node if i found the string "NC" i
> need to do this for all elements (TVEpisode,Movies,TVshow etc)
> how can i use python to remove the parent node if that string found.
> (not only TVEpisodes, but others as well)
> 
> 
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> 
> import elementtree.ElementTree as ET
> 
> tree = ET.parse('test.xml')
> root = tree.getroot()
> 
> 
> for child in root.findall(".//{http://schemas.CCC.com/CCC/2011/06/13/CC}Rating"):
>        x = child.find('Rating').text
>         if child[1].text == 'NC':
>                 print "found"
>                root.remove('TVEpisode') ?????
> tree.write('output.xml')

The trick is to search for the parent node, then let your code find out if
you need to remove it or not by traversing its subtree.

Stefan




From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 02:06:57 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 23:06:57 -0700
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJVz+4SBv3BfR=-UGSBF0iA4sCop+ATy-iE8L7_gcLUm2w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507D7540.9010303@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVVFiZbtPEXA1Gpa_yg8g9e=oN0gyF=b8jnGnUsSPZ6vA@mail.gmail.com>
	<94BCE27A-C403-4339-B0A6-DFCCAF859BDD@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVz+4SBv3BfR=-UGSBF0iA4sCop+ATy-iE8L7_gcLUm2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9A6903B3-2C27-401B-937A-E2D49A2ADA99@gmail.com>

> This is my prototype portfolio for freelancing. If you have an honest
> critique, then what, in your opinion, am I good at?
> 
> https://www.odesk.com/users/~01710ac049863018eb

I can't ascertain what your strengths are as I don't work with you on a daily basis (one of the many benefits of working with people smarter than you ;)).

What I feel safe in assuming is that:

* You seemingly have a *want* to learn, which in itself is very important.
* Your strength is not design. Using bevel and emboss (and a pattern here and there) does not constitute good design. If you're showcasing logo work, I hope you're ready to supply variations that can be used cross-medium.
* You're not a game developer (given what I've seen, I highly doubt that you can readily tackle the complexities in game development even in a team environment, let alone solo)

Don't lie (this includes stretching the truth). In doing so, you'll mismanage client expectations and simply drive any future prospective clients away. Under-promise, over-deliver ;)

As to not flood the list with OT discussion, if you can stay away from the flame wars (I avoid such things, directly or indirectly as it's childish and entirely unprofessional), I don't mind answering questions here and there (just e-mail me directly). I'm not a genius or a guru, but I've had enough experience that I may be of some help in pointing you in the right directions if you're genuinely interested.

From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 02:15:20 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 23:15:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CA+vVgJX8S6ZKNSBDUdxuCwcsPYGZCVPzEVgdgEyEtN2x=_-how@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2314.1350446041.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4b3d2a31-a901-49c5-8843-da6e6f639c42@ro10g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<80d4f36f-91e1-48cf-a023-c7528c72d717@6g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b6c67f7-8f77-4247-af4f-f161c5124b30@pz10g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 17, 2:43?pm, rusi <rustompm... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Let me try to restate alex without the barb.

Do you offer this service for hire? :)


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Oct 17 02:24:27 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 17 Oct 2012 06:24:27 GMT
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CA+vVgJX8S6ZKNSBDUdxuCwcsPYGZCVPzEVgdgEyEtN2x=_-how@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2314.1350446041.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4b3d2a31-a901-49c5-8843-da6e6f639c42@ro10g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <507e4f1b$0$29887$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:25:38 -0700, alex23 wrote:

> I really don't get people who feel they need to share their opinion when
> that opinion is that other people shouldn't share theirs.

+1 QOTW

It makes me laugh when newcomers to this group stick their head up to 
chastise us for arguing about the culture of this group. The irony is 
that that is *precisely* what they too are doing.

In an ideal world, we'd all agree on what counts as acceptable behaviour, 
and stick to it, and discuss nothing but Python coding problems. But we 
don't live in an idea world, and there are disagreements and people 
behaving badly, and arguments about such, and meta-arguments about the 
arguments.

Welcome to humanity.

And more importantly, welcome to democracy -- this is not a dictatorship, 
there is no Supreme Glorious Leader who decides what is on- and off-
topic, no Thought Police to ban you for straying from the straight and 
narrow of what is allowed. And thank goodness for that. I've been on 
lists that do have such policies, and they tend to give lousy advice 
badly and have a culture of group-think.

Sure, it's frustrating to have to hit delete on a bunch of posts you 
don't care about. But that's true regardless of the topic or the list. 
Last night I deleted about 300 emails about designing a new asynchronous 
library that I had no desire to take part in. Did I post an angry screed 
calling it BS? No I did not, because I'm aware that even if I'm not 
interested in it, it is a part of Python culture and *somebody* needs to 
deal with it. I'm just glad its not me.



-- 
Steven


From alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr  Wed Oct 17 02:25:52 2012
From: alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (Alain Ketterlin)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:25:52 +0200
Subject: ElementTree Issue - Search and remove elements
References: <mailman.2323.1350452831.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87pq4hbonj.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>

Tharanga Abeyseela <tharanga.abeyseela at gmail.com> writes:

> I need to remove the parent node, if a particular match found.

It looks like you can't get the parent of an Element with elementtree (I
would love to be proven wrong on this).

The solution is to find all nodes that have a Rating (grand-) child, and
then test explicitly for the value you're looking for.

> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1" standalone="yes"?>
> <Feed xmlns="http://schemas.xxxx.xx/xx/2011/06/13/xx">
>     <TVEpisode>
[...]
>         <ParentalControl>
>             <System>xxxx</System>
>             <Rating>M</Rating>


> for child in root.findall(".//{http://schemas.CCC.com/CCC/2011/06/13/CC}Rating"):
>        x = child.find('Rating').text
>         if child[1].text == 'NC':
>                 print "found"
>                root.remove('TVEpisode') ?????

Your code doesn't work because findall() already returns Rating
elements, and these have no Rating child (so your first call to find()
fails, i.e., returns None). And list indexes starts at 0, btw.

Also, Rating is not a child of TVEpisode, it is a child of
ParentalControl.

Here is my suggestion:

# Find nodes having a ParentalControl child
for child in root.findall(".//*[ParentalControl]"):
    x = child.find("ParentalControl/Rating").text
    if x == "NC":
        ...

Note that a complete XPath implementation would make that simpler: your
query basically is //*[ParentalControl/Rating=="NC"]

-- Alain.


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 02:27:39 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 02:27:39 -0400
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <9A6903B3-2C27-401B-937A-E2D49A2ADA99@gmail.com>
References: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507D7540.9010303@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVVFiZbtPEXA1Gpa_yg8g9e=oN0gyF=b8jnGnUsSPZ6vA@mail.gmail.com>
	<94BCE27A-C403-4339-B0A6-DFCCAF859BDD@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVz+4SBv3BfR=-UGSBF0iA4sCop+ATy-iE8L7_gcLUm2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<9A6903B3-2C27-401B-937A-E2D49A2ADA99@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJUnAESf7o+9wahxq7W7qaDKRaVn=8+gAox=ouPsqgQVVw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:06 AM, Demian Brecht <demianbrecht at gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is my prototype portfolio for freelancing. If you have an honest
>> critique, then what, in your opinion, am I good at?
>>
>> https://www.odesk.com/users/~01710ac049863018eb
>
> I can't ascertain what your strengths are as I don't work with you on a daily basis (one of the many benefits of working with people smarter than you ;)).

Doubt that, unless they have 160+ I.Q.'s(been seeing psychiatrists
since I was 13). I'm very secure in my childlike intellectualism.
>
> What I feel safe in assuming is that:
>
> * You seemingly have a *want* to learn, which in itself is very important.

Want to. I'm the most interdisciplinary learner you might have ever
encountered in your life. Like you said, you don't know me that well,
and this isn't intended to get mean...I just had to get honest with
myself without that much ego.

> * Your strength is not design. Using bevel and emboss (and a pattern here and there) does not constitute good design.

It's simplicity within a symbolism, and now that I need money for
medical reasons, the work I've done isn't perfect, but it's on par.

I know when I see something aesthetically pleasing, and if I like what
I have, I'm using the same mindset.

If you're showcasing logo work, I hope you're ready to supply
variations that can be used cross-medium.

These are all portfolio sites of my own, and I'm slowly revising them,
just like any other rough draft, and as you can tell I'm asking other
people to critique it.

> * You're not a game developer

Not yet, but wait until you see a translated prototype from
python/tkinter turned into blender. I'm fond of games, and I try to
not mimic, but keep in the same realm of professional.

Remember you're looking at rough drafts, and you haven't seen other
developments.

 (given what I've seen, I highly doubt that you can readily tackle the
complexities in game development even in a team environment, let alone
solo)

You mean a GDK with a story line, points, and scores with little cool
graphics. Lowly doubt your opinion of that.

>
> Don't lie (this includes stretching the truth).

In which case have i lied. I'm capable of many things, and that's
confidence, not arrogance.

In doing so, you'll mismanage client expectations and simply drive any
future prospective clients away. Under-promise, over-deliver ;)
>
This I believe in somewhat, but I want to tell the client I can do it,
and they're the final inspector who oversees the project. I just
algorithm, develop, and deliver their expectations.


> As to not flood the list with OT discussion, if you can stay away from the flame wars (I avoid such things, directly or indirectly as it's childish and entirely unprofessional),

Defending yourself when attacked is a necessity. In business people
will run over you, steal your ideas, and take advantage of you, and I
can't let that happen in any forum, no matter how childish it can get.

I don't mind answering questions here and there (just e-mail me
directly). I'm not a genius or a guru, but I've had enough experience
that I may be of some help in pointing you in the right directions if
you're genuinely interested.

I'm a lonely guy, and I like friends. I only flame up in hostile
situations. So we can discuss this off list, and I'll accept any
advice I acknowledge as being beneficial, and will argu a point I
think is valid.


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Wed Oct 17 03:01:56 2012
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:01:56 +0200
Subject: ElementTree Issue - Search and remove elements
In-Reply-To: <87pq4hbonj.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
References: <mailman.2323.1350452831.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<87pq4hbonj.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
Message-ID: <k5ll54$g9i$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alain Ketterlin, 17.10.2012 08:25:
> It looks like you can't get the parent of an Element with elementtree (I
> would love to be proven wrong on this).

No, that's by design. ElementTree allows you to reuse subtrees in a
document, for example, which wouldn't work if you enforced a single parent.
Also, keeping parent references out simplifies the tree structure
considerably, saves space and time and all that. ElementTree is really
great for what it does.

If you need to access the parent more often in a read-only tree, you can
quickly build up a back reference dict that maps each Element to its parent
by traversing the tree once.

Alternatively, use lxml.etree, in which Elements have a getparent() method
and in which single parents are enforced (also by design).

Stefan




From rustompmody at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 03:13:57 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 00:13:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: list comprehension question
References: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2321.1350451320.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ee56557d-4450-4308-8488-8e2b6c1f9bc3@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 17, 10:22?am, Terry Reedy <tjre... at udel.edu> wrote:
> On 10/16/2012 9:54 PM, Kevin Anthony wrote:
>
> > I've been teaching myself list comprehension, and i've run across
> > something i'm not able to convert.
>
> list comprehensions specifically abbreviate the code that they are
> (essentially) equivalent to.
>
> res = []
> for item in source:
> ? ?res.append(f(item))
> res
>
> <==>
>
> [f(item) for item in source]
>
> Matrix multiplication does not fit the pattern above. The reduction is
> number addition rather than list appending.

Dunno why you say that. Heres matrix multiply using list
comprehensions:

from operator import add
def dot(p,q): return reduce(add, (x*y for x,y in zip(p,q)))

def transpose(m): return zip(*m)

def mm(a,b): return mmt(a, transpose(b))

def mmt(a,b): return [[dot(ra, rb) for rb in b] for ra in a]

which can then be 'reduced' to a one-liner if that takes your fancy


From tharanga.abeyseela at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 03:19:06 2012
From: tharanga.abeyseela at gmail.com (Tharanga Abeyseela)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 18:19:06 +1100
Subject: ElementTree Issue - Search and remove elements
Message-ID: <CAOMTrfc1oS=3pU2RrdK5QbznMV=Jb1_ZcBXhWAqEJMSjaDTk-g@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Stefan,

i managed to iterate through the file like this.


import elementtree.ElementTree as ET

tree = ET.parse('test.xml')
root = tree.getroot()

walkAll = tree.getiterator()

for elt in walkAll:
        #print elt.tag
        x =  elt.tag
        if x == "{http://xxxx.xx.com/xxxx/2011/06/13/ingestion}Rating":
                if  elt.text == "NC":
                        print elt.text   #### here i can see all my NC values

        else:
            print "not found"  ####all other stuff are coming here..



but how should i remove the parent from the NC checking part?

thanks,
Tharanga


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 03:25:16 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 00:25:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CA+vVgJX8S6ZKNSBDUdxuCwcsPYGZCVPzEVgdgEyEtN2x=_-how@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2314.1350446041.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4b3d2a31-a901-49c5-8843-da6e6f639c42@ro10g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<80d4f36f-91e1-48cf-a023-c7528c72d717@6g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6c67f7-8f77-4247-af4f-f161c5124b30@pz10g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8fac54dc-e53c-4303-b4f5-5441f4126b2f@q7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 17, 11:15?am, alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 17, 2:43?pm, rusi <rustompm... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Let me try to restate alex without the barb.
>
> Do you offer this service for hire? :)

Hmm now thats an idea?
Are you offering to hire? [Considering how many jobs Ive changed,
never know whats next!]

Rusi
--

http://blog.languager.org



From schesis at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 03:29:13 2012
From: schesis at gmail.com (Zero Piraeus)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 03:29:13 -0400
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANaSqUejYGKSFScy2x8m5Re6rr8oLPPPsh6reEuQOMD_w4imjQ@mail.gmail.com>

:

A few people have pointed out some of the problems with your website
<http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com>, but ...

The gigantic .wav and .gif files really are a terrible idea.

In the first place, they're 90MB between them, which on my connection
[which is admittedly crap, but hey, I live in the third world] would
take *twelve minutes* to load on a really good day. You should be
aiming for no more than five seconds.

In the second place ... background audio? No, no, no, no. Really, no.
And while you might be pleased with the animated .gif, it screams
"nineties", and isn't going to do you any favours even if a visitor
has the patience to wait for it to load.

I find your "HIT" logo quite difficult to read - I couldn't work out
what it was at all at first. Maybe improve the contrast and lose the
drop shadows?

On to the code ... I've done some fixing up on it. You can find the results at:

  https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-eYljKQEcnuQS1pSDdHT0VMRHM

It's a zipped hg repo, so assuming you're familiar with Mercurial,
you'll be able to see the changes I made step by step. If you have any
questions about why I changed what I did, feel free to email me
offlist.

Presumably you won't be able to use it as a drop-in replacement, given
that you seem to be working with PHP [an intriguing choice in itself,
given the list we're on], but looking through the changes might help
you out.

I haven't touched anything except the HTML (and the CSS where
necessary to get inline styles out of the HTML), and have restricted
myself to:

a) fixing stuff that is Just Plain Wrong

b) turning it into HTML5

... while leaving alone questionable practices like using empty <div>s
all over the place. Bonus: the HTML now validates :-)

If you're in the process of teaching yourself web development, I
strongly recommend a focus on HTML5 syntax. You'll find it a lot more
pleasant, it's still it's a good differentiator in the marketplace
right now, and it's what everyone will be expecting a couple of years
down the line anyway.

> I'm working on toning down the smack talk, I'm just used to a little
> witty back and forth with some seriously cruel individuals.

I appreciate that; thanks. I've worked in some fairly ribald
environments myself, but it is nice that people generally try to get
along around here.

 -[]z.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 03:36:21 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 18:36:21 +1100
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <507e4f1b$0$29887$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CA+vVgJX8S6ZKNSBDUdxuCwcsPYGZCVPzEVgdgEyEtN2x=_-how@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2314.1350446041.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4b3d2a31-a901-49c5-8843-da6e6f639c42@ro10g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<507e4f1b$0$29887$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrL4CmscPHWOOhvk6_ssGpxidjgPAFg-NXikkv89aJtQQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> In an ideal world, we'd all agree on what counts as acceptable behaviour,
> and stick to it, and discuss nothing but Python coding problems. But we
> don't live in an idea world, and there are disagreements and people
> behaving badly, and arguments about such, and meta-arguments about the
> arguments.
>
> Welcome to humanity.

Every negative is a corrupted version of a positive. Why are there
these sorts of arguments? Because people care about the quality of
posts. Why have meta-arguments? Because Python programmers have the
sorts of brains that are good at (and enjoy) such.

> And more importantly, welcome to democracy -- this is not a dictatorship,
> there is no Supreme Glorious Leader who decides what is on- and off-
> topic, no Thought Police to ban you for straying from the straight and
> narrow of what is allowed. And thank goodness for that. I've been on
> lists that do have such policies, and they tend to give lousy advice
> badly and have a culture of group-think.

Correction: Welcome to anarchy. In a democracy, we'd all vote and
anyone voted out would be banned. Otherwise, absolutely agree.

> Sure, it's frustrating to have to hit delete on a bunch of posts you
> don't care about. But that's true regardless of the topic or the list.
> Last night I deleted about 300 emails about designing a new asynchronous
> library that I had no desire to take part in. Did I post an angry screed
> calling it BS? No I did not, because I'm aware that even if I'm not
> interested in it, it is a part of Python culture and *somebody* needs to
> deal with it. I'm just glad its not me.

Heh, I'm skipping all those posts too - but I'm confident Python will
be the better for that discussion.

I'm on many mailing lists. Some quiet, some noisy, some public, some
private (and don't knock the private ones - it's WAY better to use
Mailman than huge cc: lists), some courteous, some rude. Not one of
them is useless to the world. If you don't like python-list, maybe
there's another forum that's more to your liking - Python is big
enough to have several. :)

ChrisA


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Wed Oct 17 03:49:08 2012
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:49:08 +0200
Subject: Fwd: system tray or notification area in python
In-Reply-To: <k5kl6n$ia1$1@dont-email.me>
References: <CADjSo4TmVQrr9zCsX5uCCx0iDOP3GJjY7i9rXtCBi9hbbu7a8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<7585937255598573571@unknownmsgid>
	<CADjSo4RqR1Jbpuv2-RpW-HcorjBO8DecGum=A1VzS4xeOTrL6Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2296.1350420001.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5kl6n$ia1$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CADjSo4R7daxq8Ltn3qxxK1jrZ2YX1QoZV=E8vY8fNFQ9kWoARw@mail.gmail.com>

>>>> Hi folks,
>>>> So I thought I would write a brand new stand alone system tray or
>>>> notification area in python. I guess I need to use gtk bindings or
>>>> some such but don't really know what my options are.
>>>>
>>>> Where would I start something like this?
>>>> Any pointers would be greatly appreciated!
>>>>
>>> Why not look at the source code of the current app your using to get
>>> an idea how that application accomplishes said task?
>>
>> I actually did that already it's using the C bindings of gtk.
>
> I think you are mistaken - if its this one:
> 	http://stalonetray.sourceforge.net/

Yes, that's it.

> I had a quick look into the sources, it does not use gtk at all, it uses
> low level X11 calls. Programming in this way is very tedious.

Sorry, you are right. I was mixing things up, I just remembered it was
gtk, apparently it's not.

>> But I have zero experience with gui programming in python. So any
>> pointers would be much appreciated how to implement a system tray in
>> python. Gtk is I guess just one option, one could use other stuff from
>> python but I wouldn't know what the simplest approach is.
>
> I'm not sure it is even possible. "Usual" GUI applications just need to
> request certain features from their window manager such as the setting
> the program icon or requesting a certain position on the screen. That is
> what is implemented in the usual toolits like Tk, QT, and gtk.

That is my impression as well, tk, qt, etc, won't be good for this
task but I thought there are some sort of X bindings in python that
will make writing low level X applications in python possible. For
instance a system tray :)

> A window manager, on the other hand, must be able to recieve and
> interpret these messages. For a system tray, they are described here:
>
> http://standards.freedesktop.org/systemtray-spec/systemtray-spec-0.3.html
>
> I have not studied the whole interface of the aforementioned toolkits,
> but I suspect that there is no way around writing low level Xlib code in
> order to recieve these messages.

Right, but nobody wrote Xlib bindings for python?

> Don't take it wrong, but when you write that you have no experience with
> GUI programming, I'd start another projet first - I think you will have
> a tough way to succeed with this project.

I certainly wouldn't start with Xlib in C, but if python bindings
would be available that would make life much easier.

Cheers,
Daniel


> 	Christian
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Wed Oct 17 03:55:13 2012
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:55:13 +0200
Subject: bad httplib latency due to IPv6 use
Message-ID: <1s42l9-9al.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Hi!

I noticed yesterday that a single HTTP request to localhost takes 
roughly 1s, regardless of the actually served data, which is way too 
long. After some digging, I found that the problem lies in 
socket.create_connection(), which first tries the IPv6 ::1 and only then 
tries the IPv4 127.0.0.1. The first one times out after 1s, causing the 
long latency.

What I'm wondering is this:
1. The server only serves on IPv4, changing this to IPv6 would probably 
help. However, I wouldn't consider this a bug, or?
2. I don't even have any IPv6 addresses configured and I'm not using 
IPv6 in any way, so why does it try those at all?
3. Of course I can optimize the code for IPv4, but then I would be 
pessimizing IPv6 and vice versa...

Any other suggestions?

Uli


Notes:
  * Using 127.0.0.1 as host works without the delay.
  * I'm using Python 2.7 on win7/64bit


From auriocus at gmx.de  Wed Oct 17 04:02:50 2012
From: auriocus at gmx.de (Christian Gollwitzer)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 10:02:50 +0200
Subject: Fwd: system tray or notification area in python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2332.1350460151.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CADjSo4TmVQrr9zCsX5uCCx0iDOP3GJjY7i9rXtCBi9hbbu7a8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<7585937255598573571@unknownmsgid>
	<CADjSo4RqR1Jbpuv2-RpW-HcorjBO8DecGum=A1VzS4xeOTrL6Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2296.1350420001.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5kl6n$ia1$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2332.1350460151.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k5lone$reg$1@dont-email.me>

Am 17.10.12 09:49, schrieb Daniel Fetchinson:
>>>>> So I thought I would write a brand new stand alone system tray or
>>>>> notification area in python. I guess I need to use gtk bindings or
>>>>> some such but don't really know what my options are.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where would I start something like this?
>>>>> Any pointers would be greatly appreciated!
>>>>>
>>>> Why not look at the source code of the current app your using to get
>>>> an idea how that application accomplishes said task?
>>>
>>> I actually did that already it's using the C bindings of gtk.
>>
>> I think you are mistaken - if its this one:
>> 	http://stalonetray.sourceforge.net/
>
> Yes, that's it.
>
>> I had a quick look into the sources, it does not use gtk at all, it uses
>> low level X11 calls. Programming in this way is very tedious.
>
> Right, but nobody wrote Xlib bindings for python?

Erm, Google is your friend: "python xlib" turns up

	http://python-xlib.sourceforge.net/

as well as

	http://plwm.sourceforge.net/

which is pretty close to what you are trying to do.

>> Don't take it wrong, but when you write that you have no experience with
>> GUI programming, I'd start another projet first - I think you will have
>> a tough way to succeed with this project.
>
> I certainly wouldn't start with Xlib in C, but if python bindings
> would be available that would make life much easier.
>

Everything is easier in python:) because usually python libs are 
designed with OO and ease of use in mind. Beware that this will be much 
tougher than using gtk&friends.

	Christian




From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 17 04:14:43 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:14:43 +0100
Subject: overriding equals operation
In-Reply-To: <30e44a90-34b1-4ed3-97db-9fd76ec61f69@googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.2273.1350395930.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<30e44a90-34b1-4ed3-97db-9fd76ec61f69@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k5lpd7$iij$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 17/10/2012 05:16, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> What you really want is b=a.copy()
> not b=a to disentangle two objects.
>
> __eq__ is used in the comparison operation.
>

The winner Smartest Answer by a Bot Award 2012 :)

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From hansmu at xs4all.nl  Wed Oct 17 04:34:22 2012
From: hansmu at xs4all.nl (Hans Mulder)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 10:34:22 +0200
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <ee56557d-4450-4308-8488-8e2b6c1f9bc3@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
References: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2321.1350451320.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<ee56557d-4450-4308-8488-8e2b6c1f9bc3@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <507e6d8e$0$6851$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 17/10/12 09:13:57, rusi wrote:
> On Oct 17, 10:22 am, Terry Reedy <tjre... at udel.edu> wrote:
>> On 10/16/2012 9:54 PM, Kevin Anthony wrote:
>>
>>> I've been teaching myself list comprehension, and i've run across
>>> something i'm not able to convert.
>>
>> list comprehensions specifically abbreviate the code that they are
>> (essentially) equivalent to.
>>
>> res = []
>> for item in source:
>>    res.append(f(item))
>> res
>>
>> <==>
>>
>> [f(item) for item in source]
>>
>> Matrix multiplication does not fit the pattern above. The reduction is
>> number addition rather than list appending.
> 
> Dunno why you say that. Heres matrix multiply using list
> comprehensions:
> 
> from operator import add
> def dot(p,q): return reduce(add, (x*y for x,y in zip(p,q)))
> 
> def transpose(m): return zip(*m)
> 
> def mm(a,b): return mmt(a, transpose(b))
> 
> def mmt(a,b): return [[dot(ra, rb) for rb in b] for ra in a]
> 
> which can then be 'reduced' to a one-liner if that takes your fancy

I can golf it down to two lines without losing readability:

def dot(p,q): return sum(x*y for x,y in zip(p,q))

def mm(a,b): return [[dot(ra, rb) for rb in zip(*b)] for ra in a]


Hope this helps,

-- HansM



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 17 04:40:05 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:40:05 +0100
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <507e4f1b$0$29887$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CA+vVgJX8S6ZKNSBDUdxuCwcsPYGZCVPzEVgdgEyEtN2x=_-how@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2314.1350446041.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4b3d2a31-a901-49c5-8843-da6e6f639c42@ro10g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<507e4f1b$0$29887$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <k5lqsb$unj$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 17/10/2012 07:24, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
> And more importantly, welcome to democracy -- this is not a dictatorship,
>

Putting my pedantic hat on but there are few if any true democracies in 
the world.  Most governments are run on (mis)representative lines. Which 
reminds me I must restart my campaign to be the first world president. 
Seven votes at the last count, another 3.5 billion and I'm first past 
the post.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 05:31:43 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 20:31:43 +1100
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJUnAESf7o+9wahxq7W7qaDKRaVn=8+gAox=ouPsqgQVVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507D7540.9010303@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVVFiZbtPEXA1Gpa_yg8g9e=oN0gyF=b8jnGnUsSPZ6vA@mail.gmail.com>
	<94BCE27A-C403-4339-B0A6-DFCCAF859BDD@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVz+4SBv3BfR=-UGSBF0iA4sCop+ATy-iE8L7_gcLUm2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<9A6903B3-2C27-401B-937A-E2D49A2ADA99@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUnAESf7o+9wahxq7W7qaDKRaVn=8+gAox=ouPsqgQVVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmowxiLndDVS6MgUuGtew4ULjjnQOpUvmd1A3KhGap-pxA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:06 AM, Demian Brecht <demianbrecht at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I can't ascertain what your strengths are as I don't work with you on a daily basis (one of the many benefits of working with people smarter than you ;)).
>
> Doubt that, unless they have 160+ I.Q.'s(been seeing psychiatrists
> since I was 13). I'm very secure in my childlike intellectualism.

A high IQ just proves ability to score well on IQ tests. On the whole,
your statement strikes me as reminiscent of Sheldon Cooper's
insistence that "I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested!".

Personally, I've never taken an IQ test, so I don't know how well I'd
score. But I'm a school dropout, never went to
college/uni/TAFE/etc/etc, don't have any certifications of any sort.
I'm a pretty uneducated fella, according to my
r&eacute;sum&htmlentitiesdontworkhere; (that's "resume" when folded
into ASCII). So according to how most people think about intelligence,
I probably have a sub-par IQ. On the flip side, I'm a professional
programmer, I run a server where people play Dungeons and Dragons, and
I'm a well-respected wordsmith as Dungeon Master. Plus, I work in
theatre (in fact, at the moment I'm posting from the bio box, sitting
next to the follow spot that I'll be operating for the next two
weeks). So I think I have enough muscle upstairs to get through
life...

But Dwight (and I'll continue to address you as such until you change
your mail headers), a LOT of what you're saying is coming across as
over-inflated ego. Maybe you are a majorly interdisciplinary learner;
but boasting that you're "the most interdisciplinary learner [we]
might have ever encountered" just comes across poorly. One thing I've
learned from various groups is that, no matter how X you are, there's
someone else who's even more X - for any X. Maybe it isn't true
somewhere, maybe you really are the peak - but more than likely you
aren't, and it's much more pleasant to be proved better than your
claim than to be proved worse.

(There are exceptions, of course. I have absolutely no doubt that I am
the person most familiar with the RosMud++ code and thus the person
best positioned to maintain that project. This is because I wrote it.
But I am not claiming to be the best C++ programmer in the world,
because there are a lot of other C++ programmers among the seven
billion here.)

ChrisA


From hansmu at xs4all.nl  Wed Oct 17 05:37:07 2012
From: hansmu at xs4all.nl (Hans Mulder)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:37:07 +0200
Subject: bad httplib latency due to IPv6 use
In-Reply-To: <1s42l9-9al.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <1s42l9-9al.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <507e7c43$0$6845$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 17/10/12 09:55:13, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I noticed yesterday that a single HTTP request to localhost takes
> roughly 1s, regardless of the actually served data, which is way too
> long. After some digging, I found that the problem lies in
> socket.create_connection(), which first tries the IPv6 ::1 and only then
> tries the IPv4 127.0.0.1. The first one times out after 1s, causing the
> long latency.
> 
> What I'm wondering is this:
> 1. The server only serves on IPv4, changing this to IPv6 would probably
> help. However, I wouldn't consider this a bug, or?

I'd say it's a bug in your TCP/IP stack.  An IP shouldn't take that long
to figure out that it is not configured to connect to IPv6 addresses.

> 2. I don't even have any IPv6 addresses configured and I'm not using
> IPv6 in any way, so why does it try those at all?

I have no experience with win7/64, but on earlier versions of Windows,
there's a file named "hosts", somewhere in a system directory.  When
looking up an IP address, this file is consulted first.  Removing the
::1 from the entry for localhost might be a sensible work-around.

> 3. Of course I can optimize the code for IPv4, but then I would be
> pessimizing IPv6 and vice versa...

I'd avoid doing that, if at all possible.

> Any other suggestions?

Try "ping localhost" on the command line.  It that has the same problem,
than the problem is not in Python, but in your IP stack. It might be in
a FAQ list for some windows-specific forum.

> Notes:
>  * Using 127.0.0.1 as host works without the delay.

That make sense: it's the attempt to connect to ::1 that is the problem.

>  * I'm using Python 2.7 on win7/64bit


Hope his helps,

-- HansM


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 05:44:18 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 20:44:18 +1100
Subject: bad httplib latency due to IPv6 use
In-Reply-To: <507e7c43$0$6845$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <1s42l9-9al.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<507e7c43$0$6845$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmovScN0bR3i7w+MJtRc8vUWE0e3HvZuzwaKwk4+P7Nc-w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 8:37 PM, Hans Mulder <hansmu at xs4all.nl> wrote:
> I have no experience with win7/64, but on earlier versions of Windows,
> there's a file named "hosts", somewhere in a system directory.  When
> looking up an IP address, this file is consulted first.  Removing the
> ::1 from the entry for localhost might be a sensible work-around.

It ought to be c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts if your Widows is
installed to default location. If localhost isn't there at all, you
can add a line for it.

ChrisA


From gandalf at shopzeus.com  Wed Oct 17 05:58:23 2012
From: gandalf at shopzeus.com (Laszlo Nagy)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:58:23 +0200
Subject: bad httplib latency due to IPv6 use
In-Reply-To: <507e7c43$0$6845$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <1s42l9-9al.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<507e7c43$0$6845$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <507E813F.5050802@shopzeus.com>


>> What I'm wondering is this:
>> 1. The server only serves on IPv4, changing this to IPv6 would probably
>> help. However, I wouldn't consider this a bug, or?
> I'd say it's a bug in your TCP/IP stack.  An IP shouldn't take that long
> to figure out that it is not configured to connect to IPv6 addresses.
It might also be, that he has a firewall installed that is blocking 
access to ::1. In that case, it takes much more time to figure out that 
you cannot connect. Because in that case, it is not a "connection 
refused" problem, but a "trying to connect to a closed/not responding 
port" problem.


From tolidtm at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 06:10:56 2012
From: tolidtm at gmail.com (Anatoli Hristov)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 12:10:56 +0200
Subject: Index in a list
Message-ID: <CAKhY55P2-9GJtj_sZCPdJb2R00OZ3GXjZVixuDasn_Cisb_+yw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I'm trying to index a text in a list as I'm importing a log file and
each line is a list.

What I'm trying to do is find the right line which contains the text
User : and take the username right after the text "User :", but the
list.index("(User :") is indexing only if all the text matching. How
can I have the right position of the line which contains the word
("(User :")

Thanks

Anatoli


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 06:23:08 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:23:08 +1100
Subject: Index in a list
In-Reply-To: <CAKhY55P2-9GJtj_sZCPdJb2R00OZ3GXjZVixuDasn_Cisb_+yw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKhY55P2-9GJtj_sZCPdJb2R00OZ3GXjZVixuDasn_Cisb_+yw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq8V+nYzEsM7js4K5u9vCS4abvyd8dMtYFNC2tgPTAFsQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 9:10 PM, Anatoli Hristov <tolidtm at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm trying to index a text in a list as I'm importing a log file and
> each line is a list.
>
> What I'm trying to do is find the right line which contains the text
> User : and take the username right after the text "User :", but the
> list.index("(User :") is indexing only if all the text matching. How
> can I have the right position of the line which contains the word
> ("(User :")

What you want is a search. Try this:

for idx,val in enumerate(list):
    # if "(User:" in val: break
    # if val.startswith("(User:"): break


Pick one or t'other of those conditions; the first one looks for any
string _containing_ "(User:", while the second will match specifically
on the beginning.

After this loop, list[idx] is the "User" line, and the entry after it
is in list[idx+1] - but be aware that you'll get an exception if
list[idx] is the last entry in the list.

By the way, it's generally considered dodgy to use the name "list" for
a list - it stops you from using the list constructor. I'd recommend
calling it "lst" instead or, better, to name it according to what it
contains (eg if it's a list of log entries, call it 'log_entries' or
something).

ChrisA


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Wed Oct 17 07:49:24 2012
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 13:49:24 +0200
Subject: system tray or notification area in python
In-Reply-To: <k5lone$reg$1@dont-email.me>
References: <CADjSo4TmVQrr9zCsX5uCCx0iDOP3GJjY7i9rXtCBi9hbbu7a8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<7585937255598573571@unknownmsgid>
	<CADjSo4RqR1Jbpuv2-RpW-HcorjBO8DecGum=A1VzS4xeOTrL6Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2296.1350420001.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5kl6n$ia1$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2332.1350460151.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5lone$reg$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CADjSo4TzSRd397oPSpY+YG39C+GfexPzp4be-A_JyVSKXquYBA@mail.gmail.com>

>>>>>> So I thought I would write a brand new stand alone system tray or
>>>>>> notification area in python. I guess I need to use gtk bindings or
>>>>>> some such but don't really know what my options are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where would I start something like this?
>>>>>> Any pointers would be greatly appreciated!
>>>>>>
>>>>> Why not look at the source code of the current app your using to get
>>>>> an idea how that application accomplishes said task?
>>>>
>>>> I actually did that already it's using the C bindings of gtk.
>>>
>>> I think you are mistaken - if its this one:
>>> 	http://stalonetray.sourceforge.net/
>>
>> Yes, that's it.
>>
>>> I had a quick look into the sources, it does not use gtk at all, it uses
>>> low level X11 calls. Programming in this way is very tedious.
>>
>> Right, but nobody wrote Xlib bindings for python?
>
> Erm, Google is your friend: "python xlib" turns up
>
> 	http://python-xlib.sourceforge.net/
>
> as well as
>
> 	http://plwm.sourceforge.net/
>
> which is pretty close to what you are trying to do.

Great, thanks a lot!

>>> Don't take it wrong, but when you write that you have no experience with
>>> GUI programming, I'd start another projet first - I think you will have
>>> a tough way to succeed with this project.
>>
>> I certainly wouldn't start with Xlib in C, but if python bindings
>> would be available that would make life much easier.
>>
>
> Everything is easier in python:) because usually python libs are
> designed with OO and ease of use in mind. Beware that this will be much
> tougher than using gtk&friends.

I guess so :) But it's a good excuse to get familiar with X :)

Cheers,
Daniel


> 	Christian
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From roy at panix.com  Wed Oct 17 08:17:46 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:17:46 -0400
Subject: bad httplib latency due to IPv6 use
References: <1s42l9-9al.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <roy-6C9343.08174617102012@news.panix.com>

In article <1s42l9-9al.ln1 at satorlaser.homedns.org>,
 Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com> wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> I noticed yesterday that a single HTTP request to localhost takes 
> roughly 1s, regardless of the actually served data, which is way too 
> long. After some digging, I found that the problem lies in 
> socket.create_connection(), which first tries the IPv6 ::1 and only then 
> tries the IPv4 127.0.0.1. The first one times out after 1s, causing the 
> long latency.
> 
> What I'm wondering is this:
> 1. The server only serves on IPv4, changing this to IPv6 would probably 
> help. However, I wouldn't consider this a bug, or?

This is most likely a configuration problem on your server.  You don't 
say what kind of system you're using, so I can only guess at the exact 
answer, but here's some suggestions.

Look at your /etc/hosts file.  What entries do you have for localhost?  
For example, on my OSX laptop, I've got:

127.0.0.1   localhost
::1             localhost 
fe80::1%lo0 localhost

which gives three IP addresses (one IPv4, two IPv6) for "localhost".  
This works because the box is properly configured for IPv6 (i.e. all 
services of interest listen on both protocols).  On the other hand, this 
is on a linux box I have:

127.0.0.1   localhost
::1     ip6-localhost ip6-loopback

Now, localhost only gives me the IPv4 address.  If I want to connect to 
localhost with IPv6, I have to explicitly say "ip6-localhost".

My guess is that you have some variation of the first example, and what 
you need is some variation on the second.

In the alternative, you need to fix up your HTTP server to listen on 
both protocols.  For sure, in the long term, that's the right solution, 
because Real Soon Now, we're going to run out of IPv4 addresses and 
everybody is going to switch to IPv6.  Of course, that's been true for 
about the past 15 years, but now it's really, really true.


From d at davea.name  Wed Oct 17 08:32:43 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:32:43 -0400
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <CA+C4C6cjha4bMZ9gyx5fTp0c_nfFQxRGu31dGNMjgHQBu73=ig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507E145E.9060008@davea.name>
	<CA+C4C6cjha4bMZ9gyx5fTp0c_nfFQxRGu31dGNMjgHQBu73=ig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <507EA56B.7020103@davea.name>

On 10/17/2012 12:43 AM, Kevin Anthony wrote:
> Is it not true that list comprehension is much faster the the for loops?
> 
> If it is not the correct way of doing this, i appoligize.
> Like i said, I'm learing list comprehension.
> 
(Please don't top-post;  it ruins the ordering.  In these forums, put
your response after the part you quote from earlier messages.  Or even
better, after each part you quote.  Then trim off the parts you didn't
reference.)

list comprehensions CAN be much faster, but not necessarily.  The most
complex a loop, the less likely it'll help much.

In any case, only the inner loop will be affected.  Nesting two list
comprehensions will make a trivial difference.

On the other hand, Hans Mulder shows some other factoring which seems
much more readable than yours.

Studying (and testing) those could teach you a lot about comprehensions,
as well as about the libraries that can help.  Note especially what
zip(*b) yields, and think about what it means.


-- 

DaveA


From tolidtm at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 08:38:52 2012
From: tolidtm at gmail.com (Anatoli Hristov)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 14:38:52 +0200
Subject: Index in a list
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmq8V+nYzEsM7js4K5u9vCS4abvyd8dMtYFNC2tgPTAFsQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKhY55P2-9GJtj_sZCPdJb2R00OZ3GXjZVixuDasn_Cisb_+yw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmq8V+nYzEsM7js4K5u9vCS4abvyd8dMtYFNC2tgPTAFsQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKhY55N95c-=q9ZWd=aprALDezV4MCEVFerJNVfUjQoHM9L2mQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks a lot this solved my issue:)

Regards

Anatoli

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 12:23 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 9:10 PM, Anatoli Hristov <tolidtm at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm trying to index a text in a list as I'm importing a log file and
>> each line is a list.
>>
>> What I'm trying to do is find the right line which contains the text
>> User : and take the username right after the text "User :", but the
>> list.index("(User :") is indexing only if all the text matching. How
>> can I have the right position of the line which contains the word
>> ("(User :")
>
> What you want is a search. Try this:
>
> for idx,val in enumerate(list):
>     # if "(User:" in val: break
>     # if val.startswith("(User:"): break
>
>
> Pick one or t'other of those conditions; the first one looks for any
> string _containing_ "(User:", while the second will match specifically
> on the beginning.
>
> After this loop, list[idx] is the "User" line, and the entry after it
> is in list[idx+1] - but be aware that you'll get an exception if
> list[idx] is the last entry in the list.
>
> By the way, it's generally considered dodgy to use the name "list" for
> a list - it stops you from using the list constructor. I'd recommend
> calling it "lst" instead or, better, to name it according to what it
> contains (eg if it's a list of log entries, call it 'log_entries' or
> something).
>
> ChrisA
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Wed Oct 17 08:40:14 2012
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 14:40:14 +0200
Subject: bad httplib latency due to IPv6 use
In-Reply-To: <1s42l9-9al.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <1s42l9-9al.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <eil2l9-nhm.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Some updates on the issue:

The etc/hosts file contains the following lines:

# localhost name resolution is handled within DNS itself.
#       127.0.0.1       localhost
#       ::1             localhost

As I understand it, those effectively mean that localhost is not 
resolved via this hosts file but "within DNS itself", whatever that 
exactly means.


Concerning the question whether ping works, the result is that "ping 
localhost" works and that it uses the IPv6 (sic!) address. I also tried 
"ping ::1" and "ping 127.0.0.1" and both work. Weird, as ipconfig 
doesn't list any IPv6 addresses.


Concerning the question whether a firewall blocks and unnecessarily 
delays connection attempts to ::1, I haven't determined that yet. I'll 
ask our admins here to verify whether that is the case.


Lastly, I tried the same using Python 3.2.3/64bit (the other was 
actually the 32-bit version), and the same issues are there. In summary, 
I guess that it's a problem with the IP configuration not one in 
Python's or my code.

Sorry for the noise...

Uli



From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 09:24:40 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:24:40 +1100
Subject: easy_install says "not a recognized archive type" Windows Py3
In-Reply-To: <43c15417-d2a8-4995-8ff8-cfe5d13aac63@googlegroups.com>
References: <43c15417-d2a8-4995-8ff8-cfe5d13aac63@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr=xUDKRvgPVBAmwCU+a9tq=4dteZUeT9wZu3RHBTefoA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Noah Coad <noah at coad.net> wrote:
> error: Not a recognized archive type: c:\users\noahco~1\appdata\local\temp\easy_
> install-gpekqc\PyMySQL-0.5.tar.gz

Nobody seems to have responded to this (or I haven't seen it), but it
looks like your system can't extract gzip files. Suggestions found on
other fora (at the opposite end of a Google search) point to possibly
using pip instead of easy_install; alternatively, you may be able to
install a Windows gzip utility, though I don't know anything about
linking that up with easy_install.

Sorry I can't be of more help! But maybe bumping this thread will
bring it to someone's attention who actually knows.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 09:32:29 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:32:29 +1100
Subject: bad httplib latency due to IPv6 use
In-Reply-To: <eil2l9-nhm.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <1s42l9-9al.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<eil2l9-nhm.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqq4aPx7iJKkadCM0i3sOu+Wdc+WFdKWg1vaSBQXLz1PA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 11:40 PM, Ulrich Eckhardt
<ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com> wrote:
> Concerning the question whether a firewall blocks and unnecessarily delays
> connection attempts to ::1, I haven't determined that yet. I'll ask our
> admins here to verify whether that is the case.

It would only be a software firewall on the local machine that could
be doing that; anything on any other machine can't. If you have no
particular reason to do otherwise, I would recommend removing all
firewalling from localhost - you won't lose much security (two
programs running on your computer are allowed to communicate freely in
plenty of other ways anyway), and it'll make all sorts of things
easier/simpler.

ChrisA


From giuseppecostanzi at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 09:49:30 2012
From: giuseppecostanzi at gmail.com (Beppe)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 06:49:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: cx_Oracle clause IN using a variable
In-Reply-To: <507d97e5$0$6987$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <013921b2-122e-4169-bb09-8973e0f07ec1@googlegroups.com>
	<507d97e5$0$6987$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <5b812cac-5ba5-4451-91e3-7b7fbba56184@googlegroups.com>

Il giorno marted? 16 ottobre 2012 19:23:22 UTC+2, Hans Mulder ha scritto:
> On 16/10/12 15:41:58, Beppe wrote:
> 
> > Hi all,
> 
> > I don't know if it is the correct place to set this question, however,
> 
> > I'm using cx_Oracle to query an Oracle database.
> 
> > I've a problem to use the IN clause with a variable.
> 
> > My statement is 
> 
> > 
> 
> > sql = "SELECT field1,field2,field3
> 
> >         FROM my_table
> 
> >         WHERE field_3 IN (:arg_1)"
> 
> > 
> 
> > where arg_1 is retrive by a dictionary
> 
> > that is build so
> 
> > 
> 
> >  my_dict = {'location':"X",
> 
> >             'oracle_user':'user',
> 
> >             'oracle_password':'pass',
> 
> >             'dsn':'dsn',
> 
> >             'mailto':'someone at somewhere.org',
> 
> >             'codes':"CNI,CNP"}
> 
> > 
> 
> > args = (dict['codes'],)
> 
> >            
> 
> >  
> 
> > con = cx_Oracle.connect(my_dict["oracle_user"],
> 
> >                          my_dict["oracle_password"],
> 
> >                          my_dict["dsn"])
> 
> >                          
> 
> > cur = con.cursor()
> 
> > cur.execute(sql,args)
> 
> > rs =  cur.fetchall()           
> 
> > 
> 
> > but it doesn't work in the sense that doesn't return anything
> 
> > 
> 
> > If i use the statment without variable 
> 
> > 
> 
> > SELECT field1,field2,field3
> 
> > FROM my_table
> 
> > WHERE field_3 IN ('CNI','CNP')
> 
> > 
> 
> > the query works
> 
> > 
> 
> > what is wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> You only have a single placeholder variable,
> 
> so your statement is equivalent to
> 
> 
> 
> SELECT field1,field2,field3
> 
> FROM my_table
> 
> WHERE field_3 IN ('CNI,CNP')
> 
> 
> 
> Presumably 'CNI,CNP' is not a valid value for field_3,
> 
> thus your query finds no records.
> 
> 
> 
> > suggestions?
> 
> 
> 
> To verify that you have the correct syntax, try it
> 
> with a single value first:
> 
> 
> 
> my_dict = {'location':"X",
> 
>             'oracle_user':'user',
> 
>             'oracle_password':'pass',
> 
>             'dsn':'dsn',
> 
>             'mailto':'someone at somewhere.org',
> 
>             'codes':"CNI"}
> 
> 
> 
> It that produces some of the records you want, then the
> 
> question is really: can you somehow pass a list of values
> 
> via a single placeholder variable?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm, not a cx_Oracle expert, but I think the answer is "no".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to pass exactly two values, then the work-around
> 
> would be to pass them in separate variables:
> 
> 
> 
> my_dict = {'location':"X",
> 
>             'oracle_user':'user',
> 
>             'oracle_password':'pass',
> 
>             'dsn':'dsn',
> 
>             'mailto':'someone at somewhere.org',
> 
>             'code1':"CNI",
> 
>             'code2':"CNP"}
> 
> 
> 
> sql = """SELECT field1,field2,field3
> 
>          FROM my_table
> 
>          WHERE field_3 IN (:arg_1, :arg_2)"""
> 
> args = (my_dict['code1'],my_dict['code2'])
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the number of codes can vary, you'll have to generate a
> 
> query with the correct number of placholders in it.  Mabye
> 
> something like this (untested):
> 
> 
> 
> my_dict = {'location':"X",
> 
>             'oracle_user':'user',
> 
>             'oracle_password':'pass',
> 
>             'dsn':'dsn',
> 
>             'mailto':'someone at somewhere.org',
> 
>             'codes':"Ornhgvshy,vf,orggre,guna,htyl"}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> args = my_dict['codes'].split(",")
> 
> placeholders = ','.join(":x%d" % i for i,_ in enumerate(args))
> 
> 
> 
> sql = """SELECT field1,field2,field3
> 
>          FROM my_table
> 
>          WHERE field_3 IN (%s)""" % placeholders
> 
> 
> 
> con = cx_Oracle.connect(my_dict["oracle_user"],
> 
>                          my_dict["oracle_password"],
> 
>                          my_dict["dsn"])
> 
> 
> 
> cur = con.cursor()
> 
> cur.execute(sql,args)
> 
> rs =  cur.fetchall()
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> 
> 
> -- HansM

Thanks a lot of to ian and hans for your explanations that have allowed me to resolve my problem and above all to understand the why I was wrong.

regards
beppe


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 10:06:23 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 07:06:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: list comprehension question
References: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507E145E.9060008@davea.name>
	<CA+C4C6cjha4bMZ9gyx5fTp0c_nfFQxRGu31dGNMjgHQBu73=ig@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2341.1350477185.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <61d76114-3021-4a3b-9943-1e81147d3ce1@6g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 17, 5:33?pm, Dave Angel <d... at davea.name> wrote:
> On 10/17/2012 12:43 AM, Kevin Anthony wrote:> Is it not true that list comprehension is much faster the the for loops?
>
> > If it is not the correct way of doing this, i appoligize.
> > Like i said, I'm learing list comprehension.

> list comprehensions CAN be much faster, but not necessarily. ?The most
> complex a loop, the less likely it'll help much.

One-lining the comprehension seems to make a difference of about 10%
out here. Maybe Ive missed something? Seems too large?

# My original suggestion
def dot(p,q): return sum (x*y for x,y in zip(p,q))
def transpose(m): return zip(*m)
def mm(a,b): return mmt(a, transpose(b))
def mmt(a,b): return [[dot(ra, rb) for rb in b] for ra in a]

# One-liner (Thanks Hans for reminding me of sum)

def mm1(a,b): return [[sum([x*y for x,y in zip(ra,rb)]) for rb in
zip(*b)] for ra in a]

>>> t1=Timer("res=mm1(m,m)", setup="from __main__ import mm1, m")
>>> t1.timeit(1000)
12.276363849639893
>>> t0=Timer("res=mm(m,m)", setup="from __main__ import mm, m")
>>> t0.timeit(1000)
13.453603029251099


From tolidtm at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 10:07:46 2012
From: tolidtm at gmail.com (Anatoli Hristov)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 16:07:46 +0200
Subject: Change computername
Message-ID: <CAKhY55NpUnZ3PdZczo2kv-DezMsz0TjWAvPST5cRZyAY30MPaA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Can you please help me out how can I change the computername of
windows XP with or without the "WIN32" module ?

Thanks


From vs at it.uu.se  Wed Oct 17 10:13:13 2012
From: vs at it.uu.se (Virgil Stokes)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 16:13:13 +0200
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmowxiLndDVS6MgUuGtew4ULjjnQOpUvmd1A3KhGap-pxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507D7540.9010303@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVVFiZbtPEXA1Gpa_yg8g9e=oN0gyF=b8jnGnUsSPZ6vA@mail.gmail.com>
	<94BCE27A-C403-4339-B0A6-DFCCAF859BDD@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVz+4SBv3BfR=-UGSBF0iA4sCop+ATy-iE8L7_gcLUm2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<9A6903B3-2C27-401B-937A-E2D49A2ADA99@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUnAESf7o+9wahxq7W7qaDKRaVn=8+gAox=ouPsqgQVVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmowxiLndDVS6MgUuGtew4ULjjnQOpUvmd1A3KhGap-pxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <507EBCF9.8010008@it.uu.se>

On 17-Oct-2012 11:31, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:06 AM, Demian Brecht <demianbrecht at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I can't ascertain what your strengths are as I don't work with you on a daily basis (one of the many benefits of working with people smarter than you ;)).
>> Doubt that, unless they have 160+ I.Q.'s(been seeing psychiatrists
>> since I was 13). I'm very secure in my childlike intellectualism.
> A high IQ just proves ability to score well on IQ tests. On the whole,
> your statement strikes me as reminiscent of Sheldon Cooper's
> insistence that "I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested!".
>
> Personally, I've never taken an IQ test, so I don't know how well I'd
> score. But I'm a school dropout, never went to
> college/uni/TAFE/etc/etc, don't have any certifications of any sort.
> I'm a pretty uneducated fella, according to my
> r&eacute;sum&htmlentitiesdontworkhere; (that's "resume" when folded
> into ASCII). So according to how most people think about intelligence,
> I probably have a sub-par IQ. On the flip side, I'm a professional
> programmer, I run a server where people play Dungeons and Dragons, and
> I'm a well-respected wordsmith as Dungeon Master. Plus, I work in
> theatre (in fact, at the moment I'm posting from the bio box, sitting
> next to the follow spot that I'll be operating for the next two
> weeks). So I think I have enough muscle upstairs to get through
> life...
>
> But Dwight (and I'll continue to address you as such until you change
> your mail headers), a LOT of what you're saying is coming across as
> over-inflated ego. Maybe you are a majorly interdisciplinary learner;
> but boasting that you're "the most interdisciplinary learner [we]
> might have ever encountered" just comes across poorly. One thing I've
> learned from various groups is that, no matter how X you are, there's
> someone else who's even more X - for any X. Maybe it isn't true
> somewhere, maybe you really are the peak - but more than likely you
> aren't, and it's much more pleasant to be proved better than your
> claim than to be proved worse.
>
> (There are exceptions, of course. I have absolutely no doubt that I am
> the person most familiar with the RosMud++ code and thus the person
> best positioned to maintain that project. This is because I wrote it.
> But I am not claiming to be the best C++ programmer in the world,
> because there are a lot of other C++ programmers among the seven
> billion here.)
>
> ChrisA
An excellent response Chris :-)




From invalid at invalid.invalid  Wed Oct 17 10:19:55 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 14:19:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: OT Questions
References: <507D7540.9010303@gmail.com>
	<988533988.834634.1350400381609.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<mailman.2302.1350435480.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k5meqb$edu$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-17, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:

> No I'm not a troll. I like to answer, as well as ask, and sometimes
> things get heated, and you get called a name, and the name takes the
> argument out of context sometimes.

Uh, what?  How can a name take an argument out of context?  "Taking
something out of context" is something done by a somebody who is
reading or quoting somebody else.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I own seven-eighths of
                                  at               all the artists in downtown
                              gmail.com            Burbank!


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Wed Oct 17 10:29:26 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 14:29:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CA+vVgJX8S6ZKNSBDUdxuCwcsPYGZCVPzEVgdgEyEtN2x=_-how@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2314.1350446041.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4b3d2a31-a901-49c5-8843-da6e6f639c42@ro10g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<507e4f1b$0$29887$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <k5mfc6$edu$2@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-17, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:25:38 -0700, alex23 wrote:
>
>> I really don't get people who feel they need to share their opinion when
>> that opinion is that other people shouldn't share theirs.
>
> +1 QOTW
>
> It makes me laugh when newcomers to this group stick their head up to 
> chastise us for arguing about the culture of this group. The irony is 
> that that is *precisely* what they too are doing.
>
> In an ideal world, we'd all agree on what counts as acceptable behaviour, 
> and stick to it, and discuss nothing but Python coding problems.

I disagree!  I think occasional off-topic meta-arguments can be
interesting and entertaining.

Yow!  Am I having a meta-meta-discussion yet?

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! -- I love KATRINKA
                                  at               because she drives a
                              gmail.com            PONTIAC.  We're going
                                                   away now.  I fed the cat.


From nowaits at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 10:31:42 2012
From: nowaits at gmail.com (nwaits)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 07:31:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Script for finding words of any size that do NOT contain vowels with
	acute diacritic marks?
Message-ID: <a7454cb7-e6dc-4167-b72a-56a67a5873a7@googlegroups.com>

I'm very impressed with python's wordlist script for plain text.  Is there a script for finding words that do NOT have certain diacritic marks, like acute or grave accents (utf-8), over the vowels?  
Thank you.


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Wed Oct 17 10:32:29 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 14:32:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CA+vVgJX8S6ZKNSBDUdxuCwcsPYGZCVPzEVgdgEyEtN2x=_-how@mail.gmail.com>
	<507E2A42.1050906@teradactyl.com>
	<mailman.2319.1350450921.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k5mfht$edu$3@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-17, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> On 10/16/2012 11:47 PM, Kristen J. Webb wrote:
>
>> I will say that my perusal of this list has been
>> informative.  I also receive more email from this
>> list than any other I subscribe to.
>
> You could instead access it as a newsgroup via news.gmane.org. That 
> keeps posts isolated and you only download those item you request. News 
> readers should collapse threads to a single line and allow you to mark 
> all as read.

I'm a big fan of gmane (though I happen to read this "forum" as
comp.language.python from a Usenet server).  Newsreaders often have
more sophisticated mechanisms to allow you to filter out certain
people/topics/whaterver that don't interest you.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! ... this must be what
                                  at               it's like to be a COLLEGE
                              gmail.com            GRADUATE!!


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 10:33:52 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 07:33:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: list comprehension question
References: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507E145E.9060008@davea.name>
	<CA+C4C6cjha4bMZ9gyx5fTp0c_nfFQxRGu31dGNMjgHQBu73=ig@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2341.1350477185.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<61d76114-3021-4a3b-9943-1e81147d3ce1@6g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ab6030a2-1946-44c0-8761-d9e67c8905f4@v19g2000pbt.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 17, 7:06?pm, rusi <rustompm... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 17, 5:33?pm, Dave Angel <d... at davea.name> wrote:
>
> > On 10/17/2012 12:43 AM, Kevin Anthony wrote:> Is it not true that list comprehension is much faster the the for loops?
>
> > > If it is not the correct way of doing this, i appoligize.
> > > Like i said, I'm learing list comprehension.
> > list comprehensions CAN be much faster, but not necessarily. ?The most
> > complex a loop, the less likely it'll help much.
>
> One-lining the comprehension seems to make a difference of about 10%
> out here. Maybe Ive missed something? Seems too large?
>
> # My original suggestion
> def dot(p,q): return sum (x*y for x,y in zip(p,q))
> def transpose(m): return zip(*m)
> def mm(a,b): return mmt(a, transpose(b))
> def mmt(a,b): return [[dot(ra, rb) for rb in b] for ra in a]
>
> # One-liner (Thanks Hans for reminding me of sum)
>
> def mm1(a,b): return [[sum([x*y for x,y in zip(ra,rb)]) for rb in
> zip(*b)] for ra in a]
>
> >>> t1=Timer("res=mm1(m,m)", setup="from __main__ import mm1, m")
> >>> t1.timeit(1000)
> 12.276363849639893
> >>> t0=Timer("res=mm(m,m)", setup="from __main__ import mm, m")
> >>> t0.timeit(1000)
>
> 13.453603029251099

In case anyone wants to try out with the same data, I used:

m = [range(i,i+30) for i in range(30)]


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 10:35:35 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 01:35:35 +1100
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <k5mfc6$edu$2@reader1.panix.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CA+vVgJX8S6ZKNSBDUdxuCwcsPYGZCVPzEVgdgEyEtN2x=_-how@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2314.1350446041.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4b3d2a31-a901-49c5-8843-da6e6f639c42@ro10g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<507e4f1b$0$29887$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<k5mfc6$edu$2@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrB4B5HEJjHXTsyh_MoK3ai4cvzdmez+k0m33V4NFgGQg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 1:29 AM, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> I disagree!  I think occasional off-topic meta-arguments can be
> interesting and entertaining.
>
> Yow!  Am I having a meta-meta-discussion yet?

Now we get to the meat of the discussion...

It's like I was explaining to one of my brothers the other week: When
in doubt, go meta. He had a whole lot of data and he had to give a
presentation about it (for a course he was doing, and I'm not wholly
sure the 'o' belongs in there). He wanted to do something that
everyone else wouldn't be doing, so I suggested going meta. He said
everyone else would be doing that, so I advised him to add another
meta-level - for instance, do a presentation on how many people go
meta in their presentations. I still don't know whether he dared to do
so :)

ChrisA


From d at davea.name  Wed Oct 17 10:36:38 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 10:36:38 -0400
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <61d76114-3021-4a3b-9943-1e81147d3ce1@6g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
References: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507E145E.9060008@davea.name>
	<CA+C4C6cjha4bMZ9gyx5fTp0c_nfFQxRGu31dGNMjgHQBu73=ig@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2341.1350477185.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<61d76114-3021-4a3b-9943-1e81147d3ce1@6g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <507EC276.5060406@davea.name>

On 10/17/2012 10:06 AM, rusi wrote:
> On Oct 17, 5:33 pm, Dave Angel <d... at davea.name> wrote:
>> On 10/17/2012 12:43 AM, Kevin Anthony wrote:> Is it not true that list comprehension is much faster the the for loops?
>>
>>> If it is not the correct way of doing this, i appoligize.
>>> Like i said, I'm learing list comprehension.
>> list comprehensions CAN be much faster, but not necessarily.  The most
>> complex a loop, the less likely it'll help much.
> One-lining the comprehension seems to make a difference of about 10%
> out here. Maybe Ive missed something? Seems too large?
>
> # My original suggestion
> def dot(p,q): return sum (x*y for x,y in zip(p,q))
> def transpose(m): return zip(*m)
> def mm(a,b): return mmt(a, transpose(b))
> def mmt(a,b): return [[dot(ra, rb) for rb in b] for ra in a]
>
> # One-liner (Thanks Hans for reminding me of sum)
>
> def mm1(a,b): return [[sum([x*y for x,y in zip(ra,rb)]) for rb in
> zip(*b)] for ra in a]
>
>>>> t1=Timer("res=mm1(m,m)", setup="from __main__ import mm1, m")
>>>> t1.timeit(1000)
> 12.276363849639893
>>>> t0=Timer("res=mm(m,m)", setup="from __main__ import mm, m")
>>>> t0.timeit(1000)
> 13.453603029251099

And I'd wager all the improvement is in the inner loop, the dot() function.


-- 

DaveA



From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Wed Oct 17 10:45:50 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 07:45:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2348.1350484621.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507E145E.9060008@davea.name>
	<CA+C4C6cjha4bMZ9gyx5fTp0c_nfFQxRGu31dGNMjgHQBu73=ig@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2341.1350477185.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<61d76114-3021-4a3b-9943-1e81147d3ce1@6g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2348.1350484621.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6525dfec-4b44-4d84-8715-795fd430c04f@googlegroups.com>

Dave Angel? 2012?10?17????UTC+8??10?37?01????
> On 10/17/2012 10:06 AM, rusi wrote:
> 
> > On Oct 17, 5:33 pm, Dave Angel <d... at davea.name> wrote:
> 
> >> On 10/17/2012 12:43 AM, Kevin Anthony wrote:> Is it not true that list comprehension is much faster the the for loops?
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> If it is not the correct way of doing this, i appoligize.
> 
> >>> Like i said, I'm learing list comprehension.
> 
> >> list comprehensions CAN be much faster, but not necessarily.  The most
> 
> >> complex a loop, the less likely it'll help much.
> 
> > One-lining the comprehension seems to make a difference of about 10%
> 
> > out here. Maybe Ive missed something? Seems too large???
> 
> >
> 
> > # My original suggestion
> 
> > def dot(p,q): return sum (x*y for x,y in zip(p,q))
> 
> > def transpose(m): return zip(*m)
> 
> > def mm(a,b): return mmt(a, transpose(b))
> 
> > def mmt(a,b): return [[dot(ra, rb) for rb in b] for ra in a]
> 
> >
> 
> > # One-liner (Thanks Hans for reminding me of sum)
> 
> >
> 
> > def mm1(a,b): return [[sum([x*y for x,y in zip(ra,rb)]) for rb in
> 
> > zip(*b)] for ra in a]
> 
> >
> 
> >>>> t1=Timer("res=mm1(m,m)", setup="from __main__ import mm1, m")
> 
> >>>> t1.timeit(1000)
> 
> > 12.276363849639893
> 
> >>>> t0=Timer("res=mm(m,m)", setup="from __main__ import mm, m")
> 
> >>>> t0.timeit(1000)
> 
> > 13.453603029251099
> 
> 
> 
> And I'd wager all the improvement is in the inner loop, the dot() function.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> DaveA

Thanks for the tips of matrix operations over some fields or rings 
other than the real field and the complex field.


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Wed Oct 17 10:45:50 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 07:45:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2348.1350484621.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507E145E.9060008@davea.name>
	<CA+C4C6cjha4bMZ9gyx5fTp0c_nfFQxRGu31dGNMjgHQBu73=ig@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2341.1350477185.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<61d76114-3021-4a3b-9943-1e81147d3ce1@6g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2348.1350484621.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6525dfec-4b44-4d84-8715-795fd430c04f@googlegroups.com>

Dave Angel? 2012?10?17????UTC+8??10?37?01????
> On 10/17/2012 10:06 AM, rusi wrote:
> 
> > On Oct 17, 5:33 pm, Dave Angel <d... at davea.name> wrote:
> 
> >> On 10/17/2012 12:43 AM, Kevin Anthony wrote:> Is it not true that list comprehension is much faster the the for loops?
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> If it is not the correct way of doing this, i appoligize.
> 
> >>> Like i said, I'm learing list comprehension.
> 
> >> list comprehensions CAN be much faster, but not necessarily.  The most
> 
> >> complex a loop, the less likely it'll help much.
> 
> > One-lining the comprehension seems to make a difference of about 10%
> 
> > out here. Maybe Ive missed something? Seems too large???
> 
> >
> 
> > # My original suggestion
> 
> > def dot(p,q): return sum (x*y for x,y in zip(p,q))
> 
> > def transpose(m): return zip(*m)
> 
> > def mm(a,b): return mmt(a, transpose(b))
> 
> > def mmt(a,b): return [[dot(ra, rb) for rb in b] for ra in a]
> 
> >
> 
> > # One-liner (Thanks Hans for reminding me of sum)
> 
> >
> 
> > def mm1(a,b): return [[sum([x*y for x,y in zip(ra,rb)]) for rb in
> 
> > zip(*b)] for ra in a]
> 
> >
> 
> >>>> t1=Timer("res=mm1(m,m)", setup="from __main__ import mm1, m")
> 
> >>>> t1.timeit(1000)
> 
> > 12.276363849639893
> 
> >>>> t0=Timer("res=mm(m,m)", setup="from __main__ import mm, m")
> 
> >>>> t0.timeit(1000)
> 
> > 13.453603029251099
> 
> 
> 
> And I'd wager all the improvement is in the inner loop, the dot() function.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> DaveA

Thanks for the tips of matrix operations over some fields or rings 
other than the real field and the complex field.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 10:50:10 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 07:50:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: list comprehension question
References: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507E145E.9060008@davea.name>
	<CA+C4C6cjha4bMZ9gyx5fTp0c_nfFQxRGu31dGNMjgHQBu73=ig@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2341.1350477185.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<61d76114-3021-4a3b-9943-1e81147d3ce1@6g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2348.1350484621.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ea395b01-fc91-422d-9641-1ba3dc34e357@6g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 17, 7:37?pm, Dave Angel <d... at davea.name> wrote:

> And I'd wager all the improvement is in the inner loop, the dot() function.

Sorry -- red herring!

Changing

def mm1(a,b): return [[sum(x*y for x,y in zip(ra,rb)) for rb in
zip(*b)] for ra in a]

to

def mm1(a,b): return [[sum([x*y for x,y in zip(ra,rb)]) for rb in
zip(*b)] for ra in a]

makes the speed diff vanish


From d at davea.name  Wed Oct 17 11:00:11 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:00:11 -0400
Subject: Script for finding words of any size that do NOT contain vowels
	with acute diacritic marks?
In-Reply-To: <a7454cb7-e6dc-4167-b72a-56a67a5873a7@googlegroups.com>
References: <a7454cb7-e6dc-4167-b72a-56a67a5873a7@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <507EC7FB.5030403@davea.name>

On 10/17/2012 10:31 AM, nwaits wrote:
> I'm very impressed with python's wordlist script for plain text.  Is there a script for finding words that do NOT have certain diacritic marks, like acute or grave accents (utf-8), over the vowels?  
> Thank you.

if you can construct a list of "illegal" characters, then you can simply
check each character of the word against the list, and if it succeeds
for all of the characters, it's a winner.

If that's not fast enough, you can build a translation table from the
list of illegal characters, and use translate on each word.  Then it
becomes a question of checking if the translated word is all zeroes.  
More setup time, but much faster looping for each word.

-- 

DaveA



From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Wed Oct 17 11:06:08 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:06:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <ea395b01-fc91-422d-9641-1ba3dc34e357@6g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
References: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507E145E.9060008@davea.name>
	<CA+C4C6cjha4bMZ9gyx5fTp0c_nfFQxRGu31dGNMjgHQBu73=ig@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2341.1350477185.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<61d76114-3021-4a3b-9943-1e81147d3ce1@6g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2348.1350484621.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<ea395b01-fc91-422d-9641-1ba3dc34e357@6g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <62a98395-b810-4ee7-97ac-f6a453a1cef7@googlegroups.com>

rusi? 2012?10?17????UTC+8??10?50?11????
> On Oct 17, 7:37?pm, Dave Angel <d... at davea.name> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > And I'd wager all the improvement is in the inner loop, the dot() function.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry -- red herring!
> 
> 
> 
> Changing
> 
> 
> 
> def mm1(a,b): return [[sum(x*y for x,y in zip(ra,rb)) for rb in
> 
> zip(*b)] for ra in a]
> 
> 
> 
> to
> 
> 
> 
> def mm1(a,b): return [[sum([x*y for x,y in zip(ra,rb)]) for rb in
> 
> zip(*b)] for ra in a]
> 
> 
> 
> makes the speed diff vanish

I think a lot people don't work on computations over 
fields other real and complex.

That is why a lot people keep complaining about the speeds 
of python programs executed.



From fabiofz at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 11:10:38 2012
From: fabiofz at gmail.com (Fabio Zadrozny)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 12:10:38 -0300
Subject: Is there a way to configure IDLE to use spaces instead of tabs
	for indenting?
In-Reply-To: <k2a99q$vam$1@dont-email.me>
References: <k18vgg$sp9$1@dont-email.me>
	<a3ba743e-85df-42de-90bc-33bf5cf96c02@googlegroups.com>
	<k2a99q$vam$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CANXBEFpOqxSrxdobP93Yje9uwh0rHPmGQpuF0jR37bUVCyU72g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Alex <foo at email.invalid> wrote:
> Ramchandra Apte wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, 25 August 2012 04:03:52 UTC+5:30, Alex  wrote:
>> > I'm new to Python and have been using IDLE 3.2.3 to experiment with
>> >
>> > code as I learn. Despite being configured to use a 4 space
>> > indentation
>> >
>> > width, sometimes IDLE's "smart" indentation insists upon using
>> > width-8
>> >
>> > tabs.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From what I've been able to find on Google, this is due to a
>> >
>> > shortcoming in Tk. While it's not that big a deal in the grand
>> > scheme
>> >
>> > of things, I think it looks like poop, and I'd like to change IDLE
>> > to
>> >
>> > use 4-space indentation instead of tabs for all indentation levels.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Is there any way for me to achieve what I want in IDLE, or do I
>> > have to
>> >
>> > start up my full-blown IDE if I want consistent 4-space indentation?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Alex
>>
>> I think an IDE is better than IDLE. Try NINJA IDE.
>> http://ninja-ide.org
>
> Agreed. I like PyDev in Eclipse, but sometimes I just want to try out
> something quick in the interpreter, to ensure I understand it or do a
> quick experiment. Since indentation is syntactically significant in
> Python, I think fixing the interpreter to produce good, readable,
> cut-and-pasteable, and Pythonic code is more important than a cosmetic
> feature, but less important than true bugs.
> --


Actually, if you're in PyDev/Eclipse already, you can just use the
interactive shell that PyDev provides:
http://pydev.org/manual_adv_interactive_console.html

Cheers,

Fabio


From wxjmfauth at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 11:32:52 2012
From: wxjmfauth at gmail.com (wxjmfauth at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:32:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Script for finding words of any size that do NOT contain vowels
	with acute diacritic marks?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2350.1350486045.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <a7454cb7-e6dc-4167-b72a-56a67a5873a7@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2350.1350486045.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <748e561a-7e75-4b13-be6b-91831d3b59c4@googlegroups.com>

Le mercredi 17 octobre 2012 17:00:46 UTC+2, Dave Angel a ?crit?:
> On 10/17/2012 10:31 AM, nwaits wrote:
> 
> > I'm very impressed with python's wordlist script for plain text.  Is there a script for finding words that do NOT have certain diacritic marks, like acute or grave accents (utf-8), over the vowels?  
> 
> > Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> if you can construct a list of "illegal" characters, then you can simply
> 
> check each character of the word against the list, and if it succeeds
> 
> for all of the characters, it's a winner.
> 
> 
> 
> If that's not fast enough, you can build a translation table from the
> 
> list of illegal characters, and use translate on each word.  Then it
> 
> becomes a question of checking if the translated word is all zeroes.  
> 
> More setup time, but much faster looping for each word.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> DaveA

Lazy way.
Py3.2

>>> import unicodedata
>>> def HasDiacritics(w):
...     w_decomposed = unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', w)
...     return 'no' if len(w) == len(w_decomposed) else 'yes'
...     
>>> HasDiacritics('?l?phant')
'yes'
>>> HasDiacritics('elephant')
'no'
>>> HasDiacritics('\N{LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS AND MACRON}')
'yes'
>>> HasDiacritics('U')
'no'
>>>

Should be ok for the CombiningDiacriticalMarks unicode range
(common diacritics)

jmf


From wxjmfauth at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 11:32:52 2012
From: wxjmfauth at gmail.com (wxjmfauth at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:32:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Script for finding words of any size that do NOT contain vowels
	with acute diacritic marks?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2350.1350486045.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <a7454cb7-e6dc-4167-b72a-56a67a5873a7@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2350.1350486045.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <748e561a-7e75-4b13-be6b-91831d3b59c4@googlegroups.com>

Le mercredi 17 octobre 2012 17:00:46 UTC+2, Dave Angel a ?crit?:
> On 10/17/2012 10:31 AM, nwaits wrote:
> 
> > I'm very impressed with python's wordlist script for plain text.  Is there a script for finding words that do NOT have certain diacritic marks, like acute or grave accents (utf-8), over the vowels?  
> 
> > Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> if you can construct a list of "illegal" characters, then you can simply
> 
> check each character of the word against the list, and if it succeeds
> 
> for all of the characters, it's a winner.
> 
> 
> 
> If that's not fast enough, you can build a translation table from the
> 
> list of illegal characters, and use translate on each word.  Then it
> 
> becomes a question of checking if the translated word is all zeroes.  
> 
> More setup time, but much faster looping for each word.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> DaveA

Lazy way.
Py3.2

>>> import unicodedata
>>> def HasDiacritics(w):
...     w_decomposed = unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', w)
...     return 'no' if len(w) == len(w_decomposed) else 'yes'
...     
>>> HasDiacritics('?l?phant')
'yes'
>>> HasDiacritics('elephant')
'no'
>>> HasDiacritics('\N{LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS AND MACRON}')
'yes'
>>> HasDiacritics('U')
'no'
>>>

Should be ok for the CombiningDiacriticalMarks unicode range
(common diacritics)

jmf


From foo at email.invalid  Wed Oct 17 11:34:06 2012
From: foo at email.invalid (Alex)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 15:34:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Is there a way to configure IDLE to use spaces instead of tabs
	for indenting?
References: <k18vgg$sp9$1@dont-email.me>
	<a3ba743e-85df-42de-90bc-33bf5cf96c02@googlegroups.com>
	<k2a99q$vam$1@dont-email.me>
	<mailman.2351.1350486665.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k5mj5e$lmv$1@dont-email.me>

Fabio Zadrozny wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Alex <foo at email.invalid> wrote:
> > Ramchandra Apte wrote:
> > 
> >> On Saturday, 25 August 2012 04:03:52 UTC+5:30, Alex  wrote:
> >> > I'm new to Python and have been using IDLE 3.2.3 to experiment
> with >> >
> >> > code as I learn. Despite being configured to use a 4 space
> >> > indentation
> >> >
> >> > width, sometimes IDLE's "smart" indentation insists upon using
> >> > width-8
> >> >
> >> > tabs.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > From what I've been able to find on Google, this is due to a
> >> >
> >> > shortcoming in Tk. While it's not that big a deal in the grand
> >> > scheme
> >> >
> >> > of things, I think it looks like poop, and I'd like to change
> IDLE >> > to
> >> >
> >> > use 4-space indentation instead of tabs for all indentation
> levels.  >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Is there any way for me to achieve what I want in IDLE, or do I
> >> > have to
> >> >
> >> > start up my full-blown IDE if I want consistent 4-space
> indentation?  >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Alex
> > > 
> >> I think an IDE is better than IDLE. Try NINJA IDE.
> >> http://ninja-ide.org
> > 
> > Agreed. I like PyDev in Eclipse, but sometimes I just want to try
> > out something quick in the interpreter, to ensure I understand it
> > or do a quick experiment. Since indentation is syntactically
> > significant in Python, I think fixing the interpreter to produce
> > good, readable, cut-and-pasteable, and Pythonic code is more
> > important than a cosmetic feature, but less important than true
> > bugs.
> > --
> 
> 
> Actually, if you're in PyDev/Eclipse already, you can just use the
> interactive shell that PyDev provides:
> http://pydev.org/manual_adv_interactive_console.html
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Fabio

Awesome. Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.


From neilc at norwich.edu  Wed Oct 17 12:00:03 2012
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 17 Oct 2012 16:00:03 GMT
Subject: zip_longest_by
Message-ID: <ae8303Fpai4U1@mid.individual.net>

While working through Project Euler, a fun source of exercises, I
composed the following iterator recipe to yield from multiple
iterators in fixed-length groups:

import itertools

def zip_longest_by(*args, fillvalue=None, n=1, grouper=tuple):
    """Yield n at a time from each of the args, with padding.
    It terminates when the longest iterator is exhausted.

    >>> for i, j in zip_longest_by("ABCDEFGH", "HIJKL",
    ...   fillvalue="-", n=3, grouper=''.join):
    ...     print(i, j)
    ABC HIJ
    DEF KL-
    GH- ---

    >>> for n1, n2 in zip_longest_by(reversed('1234'), reversed('678'),
    ...   fillvalue='0', n=3, grouper=lambda a: ''.join(reversed(a))):
    ...     print(n1, n2)
    234 678
    001 000
    """
    it = itertools.zip_longest(*args, fillvalue=fillvalue)
    while True:
        accum = list()
        try:
            for i in range(n):
                accum += zip(*next(it))
        except StopIteration:
            for i in range(n - i):
                accum.append(tuple(itertools.repeat(fillvalue, len(args))))
            yield tuple(grouper(item) for item in zip(*accum))
            break
        yield tuple(grouper(item) for item in zip(*accum))

The interface could stand improvement. I find the grouper
argument very convenient, but none of the other grouping
iterators find it needful. Forcing n to be a keyword argument is
unfortunate as well.

-- 
Neil Cerutti


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Wed Oct 17 12:38:31 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 16:38:31 +0000
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJUnAESf7o+9wahxq7W7qaDKRaVn=8+gAox=ouPsqgQVVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507D7540.9010303@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVVFiZbtPEXA1Gpa_yg8g9e=oN0gyF=b8jnGnUsSPZ6vA@mail.gmail.com>
	<94BCE27A-C403-4339-B0A6-DFCCAF859BDD@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVz+4SBv3BfR=-UGSBF0iA4sCop+ATy-iE8L7_gcLUm2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<9A6903B3-2C27-401B-937A-E2D49A2ADA99@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUnAESf7o+9wahxq7W7qaDKRaVn=8+gAox=ouPsqgQVVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671AD00@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

David Hutto wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:06 AM, Demian Brecht <demianbrecht at gmail.com> wrote:
> > * Your strength is not design. Using bevel and emboss (and a pattern here and there) does not constitute good
> design.
> 
> It's simplicity within a symbolism, and now that I need money for
> medical reasons, the work I've done isn't perfect, but it's on par.
> 
> I know when I see something aesthetically pleasing, and if I like what
> I have, I'm using the same mindset.
> 
> If you're showcasing logo work, I hope you're ready to supply
> variations that can be used cross-medium.
> 
> These are all portfolio sites of my own, and I'm slowly revising them,
> just like any other rough draft, and as you can tell I'm asking other
> people to critique it.
> 

Aesthetics and web design are relative to the eye of the beholder.
The question is whose opinion matters. Yours? Mine? Others? Personally,
I heartily second the recommendation to get professional advice on site
design. Your site reminds me of something I would create in the '90s
with FrontPage (do people even use that anymore?) as an amateur or 
hobbyist; not something I would create as a professional attempting
to market my services.

Now I do not say this in order to be mean, but to provide constructive
criticism. Not because I do not like the site; but because I think
*other* people will not like the site layout and ultimately my opinion
does not matter; it matters what your prospective clients think. That
is unless you can afford to turn away business by sticking to your 
design principles.

Several top level links did not work and that is a bad sign for a 
portfolio. At the very least, take a few minutes to setup a blank page
so the visitor does not get a 404 error. The background of your logo
page should match the color scheme of the rest of the website. Oh,
and your logo for your main page is incomprehensible to me. I am not
sure if it is a artistic design or some text, but it is too hard to make
out.

It is hard to say much more since the site is so bare. I will reiterate
what others have said regarding background sounds (especially ones that 
start by default). If you take a look at some famous websites and you will
notice that they rarely have sound and for good reason. 

Another thing to note is wasted space. Network bandwidth is a commodity. 
You pay for it and your visitor pays for it. You pay for it in terms of 
hosting or internet service while the visitor pays for it in internet 
service and possibly even in their data cap. I cannot imagine loading 
your website from a phone (nor would I ever try to).

You want to be as efficient as possible. Have you ever taken a look at Google's home page source? Now they are an extreme example of keeping a site lean, but maybe that will give you an idea of how important it is. An overly giant GIF and sound files are poor choices. It should be easy to compress the GIF to a *much* smaller file size while keeping the animation. You can probably use a midi file for the same effect with regards to sounds. 

I hope that helps,
Ramit


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From hansmu at xs4all.nl  Wed Oct 17 12:46:28 2012
From: hansmu at xs4all.nl (Hans Mulder)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 18:46:28 +0200
Subject: Index in a list
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2338.1350468659.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2338.1350468659.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <507ee0e4$0$6934$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 17/10/12 12:10:56, Anatoli Hristov wrote:
> I'm trying to index a text in a list as I'm importing a log file and
> each line is a list.
> 
> What I'm trying to do is find the right line which contains the text
> User : and take the username right after the text "User :", but the
> list.index("(User :") is indexing only if all the text matching. How
> can I have the right position of the line which contains the word
> ("(User :")

Perhaps something like:

target = "(User :"
for line in your_list:
    position = line.find(target)
    if position >= 0:
        print line[position+len(target):]


Hope this helps,

-- HansM



From rurpy at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 17 12:48:17 2012
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:48:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>

On 10/16/2012 08:45 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 14:10:17 -0700, rurpy wrote:
> 
>> On 10/16/2012 10:49 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> > On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:27:48 -0700, rurpy wrote about trolls and
>>> > dicks:
>> 
>> No, I wrote about trolls.  "dicks" is a highly emotive and almost
>> totally subjective word 
> 
> As opposed to "troll", which is unemotional and objective? Not.

Not not.  Please be careful of binary thinking.  I did
not say "troll" is unemotional and objective; I said it
was much less so than "dick".  It has a fairly specific
meaning (see the wikipedia article for example.)

>> that I would not use in a rational discussion. 
> 
> I would. If someone is acting like a dick, why not call them by the word 
> that most accurately describes their behaviour?

Because (as I said) it is highly subjective and hence describes
not their behavior but rather your opinion of their behavior.

> I see nothing troll like in Dwight "call me David, but I can't be 
> bothered changing my signature" Hutto's behaviour. He doesn't seem to be 
> trolling, in either sense: he doesn't appear to be making provocative 
> statements for the purpose of making people think, nor does he seem to be 
> making inflammatory statements to get a rise out of people. He seems to 
> genuinely want to help people, in a clumsy, aggressive, and I believe 
> often intoxicated way.
> 
> So it seems to me that you are wrongly applying the term "troll" as a 
> meaningless pejorative to anyone who behaves badly.

Hardly meaningless.  It seems to me there is a spectrum
ranging from those who post for the pure enjoyment of starting
an argument, through those who have a on-topic reason to
post but have a lot of attitude, through those who usually
keep their attitude under control but go off when provoked
to those who really are clueless and have no idea that their
attitude is offensive to anyone.  

This is further complicated by the fact that some offensive
behaviors are offensive to some and not to others, and worse,
some people are offended by any opinion they disagree with.
Finally there are lots of people, some drive-by, some with
lots of python knowledge and regulars here, who just enjoy
arguing.  That trait is not restricted to trolls.

So regardless of the category of "troll", telling them to 
stop is more likely to result in a response ranging from a 
repetition of what they already said to "go screw yourself", 
followed by dozens of more responses telling them everything
from "stop" to "you're an asshole".

You are right that I lumped them all under the label "troll".  
I will do so through the rest of this post since I don't 
have any other good labels.

>> Perhaps you were trying to be amusing?
> 
> Certainly not.
> 
>>>> >> The best advise is to ignore such posts and encourage others to do
>>>> >> the same.
> [...]
>>> > How should somebody distinguish between "I am being shunned for
>>> > acting like a dick", and "I have not received any responses because
>>> > nobody has anything to add"?
>> 
>> Because you sent them private email telling them that? 
> 
> My, what a ... unique ... concept of "ignore such posts" you have.

What's so unique about it?  I have seen such advice dozens
of times including in this list.  (Oh wait, I just read ahead.
I'll respond below).
 
> So far, this has been the best advice you have given so far. My opinion 
> is that there is a graduated response to dickish behaviour:
> 
> * send a message telling the person they are acting unacceptably,
>   preferably privately on a first offence to avoid public shaming
>   (when possible -- lots of people aren't privately contactable 
>   for many reasons other than that they are trolls);
> 
> * if the behaviour continues, make a public comment condemning 
>   that behaviour generally without engaging directly in a debate
>   or "tit-for-tat" argument with the person.

That's great except that, 
 * Many people feel compelled to make the same public comment
 * Tit-for-tat arguments usually do ensue.
 
> And for those who value their own peace and quiet over the community 
> benefit:
> 
> * block or killfile posts from that person so they don't
>   have to be seen, preferably publicly.

 * And all too often that is followed up with a public **plonk**.
   (I really don't care that you (generic) killfiled someone.
   I'm quite capable of deciding who to read on my own.) 
 
> When I killfile someone, I tend to make it expire after a month or three, 
> just in case they mend their ways. Call me Mr Softy if you like.
> 
> [...]
>>> > If I believe that your behaviour ("giving lousy advice") is causing
>>> > great harm to this community, and *I don't say anything*, how will
>>> > you know to change your behaviour?
>> 
>> If that was how you thought, then you would be someone I hope would
>> follow my advice.  Because you would clearly seem to be unable to
>> distinguish between difference of opinion on a subject relevant to the
>> newsgroup, and inflammatory trolling. Further you see the situation in
>> extreme terms ("*great harm*") and one in which only a single point of
>> view (your's) is acceptable.
> 
> As opposed to only your opinion being acceptable? 

Excuse me?  Exactly where did I say only my opinion
was acceptable?  I read a post that suggested responding 
to "offensive" posts.  I posted my opinion that that
will likely provoke more offensive posts and off topic
discussions that it will prevent.

But you wrote,

  "[if] I don't say anything, how will you know to change
   your behaviour?"

Your phrasing implies to me that once you have told me 
that my behavior is wrong, the only reasonable thing to 
do is for me to change it.  I don't see any room there 
for the possibility that I might justifiably think my 
behavior is ok, or that you are willing to listen to a 
defense of my behavior.  You've informed me: I either
change or am a jerk.

So I think it is perfectly fair to describe that as "only 
your opinion being acceptable".  Had you written something 
like, "if I don't say anything, how will you realize you are 
offending some of us?", I would not have reacted as negatively.

> Why on earth should I 
> follow your advice if I think it is bad advice?

Nothing compels you to if you don't want to.  As nothing
compels me or anyone else here to follow your advice.  

> We can't both be right[1]. We can't simultaneously confront bad 
> behaviour, and ignore bad behaviour. I think your advice is bad,

As I think your's is.

> and has 
> the potential to kill this community. You think my advice is bad, and has 
> the potential to kill this community.

No.  Again you have misunderstood (or have chosen to make
things up for the sake of your argument.)  I made the suggestion
to ignore trolls (and other posts you find offensive) to reduce 
the number of long argumentative threads that have nothing to
do with Python.  Since anyone can identify these threads and 
ski[p over them (they are an annoyance, not a deathly menace)
I see your claim that they will "kill this community" as silly 
hyperbolic rhetoric.  But because they are an annoyance I think
it desirable to reduce them if possible and I think the best 
way to do that is to ignore them.

> Except that you've made a 180-
> degree turn from your advice to "ignore" bad behaviour, but apparently 
> didn't notice that *sending private emails* is not by any definition 
> "ignoring". So apparently you don't actually agree with your own advice.

Do you have Asberger's by any chance?  Can you understand that
I said "ignore" in the context of public discussions in this 
newsgroup/maillist?

>> You would be bordering on delusional by
>> thinking your post would somehow change my "behavior".
> 
> It's not necessarily about changing your behaviour.
> (Well, in this case, it's less about you 

"*less* about me"?  Could you clarify that?  Are you saying
my behavior is bad and needs to be changed?  (Just not as much
as someone else?)

> than about Dwight Hutto specifically and badly-
> behaved posters in general.) It's about sending a message that the 
> behaviour is unacceptable.
> 
> The primary purpose of that message is to discourage *others* from 
> following in the same behaviour. Nothing will kill a forum faster than 
> trolls and dicks feeding off each other, until there is nothing left but 
> trolls and dicks. A single troll doesn't do much harm -- few of them have 
> the energy to spam a news group for long periods, drowning out useful 
> posts.

I have read of "invasions" of trolls, (or cyber-vandals or
whatever) that have lowered lists' S/N so much that all the
regular people left.  However, I don't think that kind of 
organized attack is at issue here.  The issue is the occasional 
poster who posts something that some others find offensive.  
I don't believe that ignoring such posts will encourage more
of them.  It is the responses (which despite recommendations 
to the contrary will often be offensive or provoking in 
themselves) that encourage more trolling.

>> But even if you had a more rational response 
> 
> *raises eyebrow*

I explained why I thought it was irrational.  Addressing those
points would be more effective than a raised eyebrow.

>> and saved that reaction for
>> actual trolling and not someone who simply disagreed with you, I ask
>> again, what makes you think your response will change that troll's
>> behavior, when in actuality, your kind of response is exactly what most
>> trolls hope to elicit?  Did it help in the case I mentioned?
> 
> As I said, I do not believe that Dwight Hutto is a troll. I believe he is 
> merely badly behaved. And yes, I do believe that confronting him has 
> changed his behaviour, at least for now.
> 
> Not immediately, of course. His immediate response was to retaliate and 
> defend himself. Naturally -- very few people are self-honest enough to 
> admit, even to themselves, when they are behaving badly.
> 
> But in the intervening weeks, we, this community, has done anything but 
> ignore him. We're still talking about him *right now*. We're just not 
> necessarily talking *to* him. And the few times that people do respond 
> directly to Dwight, they make it very clear that their response is 
> guarded and on sufferance.
> 
> And there have been no further outbursts from Dwight, at least not so 
> far. So, yes, I think we've gotten the message across.

But then you don't know what the response would have 
been had you simply ignored him.  It is however reasonable 
to suppose that the (dozens? hundreds?) of followups that
those threads generated would not have occurred.  So I
don't see that you've proven anything.
 
>>> > How will others know that I do not agree with your advice?
>> 
>> Why is it so important to you that I and others know what you think? 
>> Since you are (usually) a reasonable person I don't need to read your
>> explicit pronouncement to assume that you disagree with some repugnant
>> post.
> 
> You are assuming we all agree on what is repugnant. That pretty much 
> demonstrates that you have missed my point.

No.  Please go back and reread my response to Alex23 where I 
wrote, "...different people have different ideas about
what is 'wrong'".

I wrote that I could assume there are certain repugnant posts 
*you* (and some others but certainly not all) also would find 
disagreeable because 
 * You often have made you views known here.
 * I believe many people posting here share a similar]
   background and moral worldview, and least regarding
   some subjects.
 * I was trying to find something nice to say about you.
But you way overreached if you think I meant all posters or
all offensive posts.

>  Without drawing explicit 
> boundaries, how do people know what we consider beyond the boundary of 
> acceptable behaviour?

You just chastised me (erroneously) for assuming "*we* all agree on 
what is repugnant."  In the very next sentence you write, "what *we* 
consider beyond the boundary of acceptable behavior"  What is the
difference between "repugnant posts" and "acceptable behavior" that 
makes you think agreement on the first is not possible but agreement
on the second is?

> The people in this forum come from all over the world. We're not all 
> white, middle-class[2], Australian, educated, progressive/liberals like 
> me. We're black, Chinese, German, conservative, Muslim, Christian, 
> atheist, socialist, anarchist, fascist, etc. We come from all sorts of 
> cultures, where families are run like democracies, or where they are run 
> like dictatorships where the father is the head of the household even of 
> his adult children; cultures that consider euthanasia beyond the pale and 
> those that believe that there are fates worse than death; cultures where 
> smacking children is an abomination and cultures where it is simply 
> common sense; cultures that condone honour-killings and those that don't; 
> cultures where blowing yourself up to kill the enemy is thought to be an 
> act of bravery, and cultures where pushing a button to kill strangers a 
> thousand miles away is thought to be an honourable act of military 
> service.

Thanks for the lecture but I know all that.
 
> What on earth makes you think we would possibly agree on what posts are 
> repugnant without talking about it?

What on earth makes you think that "talking about" it will
achieve agreement?  For heaven's sake, all the above cultures 
have a long history of killing each other and you seriously 
think that we can resolve these differences by some don't-
say-that" posts on c.l.p?  

One cultural aspect you failed to mention but which is relevant 
to this discussion is freedom of speech.  There are many opinions 
about what that means, and there are many people who hold it
as more important than mere offensiveness.  That shows again 
how hard it is to define a standard what is acceptable here.

So sorry, I still think the best solution is what I suggested
and what has been widely used for a long time: python-related 
posts only (which also excludes responses to offensive posts.)

> I'm sure that there are some people here -- and you might be one of them 
> -- that consider my use of the word "dick" unacceptable. And others who 
> consider dick a mild word and far less offensive than the euphemisms 
> others might prefer.

Right.  And others consider "fuck you", or "lick my dick, 
bitch" a perfectly reasonable response to a perceived insult.  
Different people, different backgrounds, different personalities.  
I would personally prefer to ignore a single (or small number)
of offensive posts than to have to ignore the hundreds of
responses over weeks generated by all those who feel compelled 
to "correct" the behavior of the OP, and more who respond in 
defense of the OP.

> Your opinion that we should all, somehow, agree on acceptable behaviour 
> is culturally self-centred and rather naive.

No, per your own statement above, that is what you seem to 
believe.  You are the one arguing for responding to breaches
of "acceptable behavior".  Or are you saying that everyone 
here should respond based on their own personal standard of
offensiveness (i.e, if if am offended by you mention of a 
deity which is not the one, true, deity you feel I should
announce on this list the offensive nature of that post?)

As I said, I believe just the opposite, that there will always
be irreconcilable differences in what is considered acceptable
posting etiquette.  Hence, the best response in the interest 
of avoiding endless arguments, is to simply not respond to 
what you perceive as offensive.

> I'm far more offended by 
> Dwight's habit of posting incoherently while pissed[3] than I am by his 
> possibly-or-possibly-not racist punning. But I don't expect everyone to 
> agree with me.

Good.  Then you won't mind my being offended by your public
derogatory accusations of something you can't possibly be sure 
of.  I find that as sleazy as Mr. Hutto's choice of language.

> [1] However, we can both be wrong. There's no reason to think that there 
> is *any* strategy to respond to bad behaviour that will work all the 
> time, against all people.
> 
> [2] Nearly everybody thinks they're middle-class, except the filthy rich 
> and the filthy poor.
> 
> [3] I don't give a damn what mind-altering chemicals Dwight wishes to 
> indulge in, so long as he does it in private.

And Dwight probably doesn't give a damn what your opinion is.
After your public speculations on his recreational drug habits
I can't say I blame him.  You ironically picked a very 
illustriative way to end a message about offensive posts
and a good example why not responding to such is better.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 13:07:11 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:07:11 -0600
Subject: Script for finding words of any size that do NOT contain vowels
	with acute diacritic marks?
In-Reply-To: <748e561a-7e75-4b13-be6b-91831d3b59c4@googlegroups.com>
References: <a7454cb7-e6dc-4167-b72a-56a67a5873a7@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2350.1350486045.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<748e561a-7e75-4b13-be6b-91831d3b59c4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnKfTMcreRQYag4uaOLDqjr_3Cy4RusdN2TndxibXOHqA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 9:32 AM,  <wxjmfauth at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> import unicodedata
>>>> def HasDiacritics(w):
> ...     w_decomposed = unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', w)
> ...     return 'no' if len(w) == len(w_decomposed) else 'yes'
> ...
>>>> HasDiacritics('?l?phant')
> 'yes'
>>>> HasDiacritics('elephant')
> 'no'
>>>> HasDiacritics('\N{LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS AND MACRON}')
> 'yes'
>>>> HasDiacritics('U')
> 'no'

Is there something wrong with True and False that you had to replace
them with strings?

"return len(w) != len(w_decomposed)" is all you need.


From drobinow at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 13:16:43 2012
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 13:16:43 -0400
Subject: Script for finding words of any size that do NOT contain vowels
	with acute diacritic marks?
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnKfTMcreRQYag4uaOLDqjr_3Cy4RusdN2TndxibXOHqA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a7454cb7-e6dc-4167-b72a-56a67a5873a7@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2350.1350486045.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<748e561a-7e75-4b13-be6b-91831d3b59c4@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidnKfTMcreRQYag4uaOLDqjr_3Cy4RusdN2TndxibXOHqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF3Xjbyx-cmMapYrf_CZ6FMurwNLkCpgyi8x=Ka8nZ4UuqLfyw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> "return len(w) != len(w_decomposed)" is all you need.
 Thanks for helping, but I already knew that.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 13:47:12 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:47:12 -0600
Subject: Change computername
In-Reply-To: <CAKhY55NpUnZ3PdZczo2kv-DezMsz0TjWAvPST5cRZyAY30MPaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKhY55NpUnZ3PdZczo2kv-DezMsz0TjWAvPST5cRZyAY30MPaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnMxbp5vOXN7BTdTEb=swd8nLcETugvyr--ZTj7A1=cTQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Anatoli Hristov <tolidtm at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Can you please help me out how can I change the computername of
> windows XP with or without the "WIN32" module ?

Untested:

from ctypes import *

ComputerNamePhysicalDnsHostname = 5

computer_name = u'COMPUTER'

success = windll.kernel32.SetComputerNameExW(ComputerNamePhysicalDnsHostname,
                                             computer_name)
if success:
    print("Name changed")
else:
    print("Failed")

The process will need admin rights, and the computer will need to be
rebooted before the change will take effect.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 14:16:51 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 05:16:51 +1100
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpeJkrmXyLPAUwTcn8Ax9aKKGta4AdDE+ExdpPRfX0Zdw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 3:48 AM,  <rurpy at yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 10/16/2012 08:45 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> Except that you've made a 180-
>> degree turn from your advice to "ignore" bad behaviour, but apparently
>> didn't notice that *sending private emails* is not by any definition
>> "ignoring". So apparently you don't actually agree with your own advice.
>
> Do you have Asberger's by any chance?  Can you understand that
> I said "ignore" in the context of public discussions in this
> newsgroup/maillist?

That's nothing to do with Asperger's. Ignoring something/someone does
not include sending a private message. What you may be trying to say
is that we should refrain from publicly responding to bad behaviour,
which is not the same thing. If you want to pull a Humpty Dumpty and
use "ignore" to mean "not respond to in public", then go ahead, I'm
not stopping you - but do please make it clear somewhere in your post.

Impenetrability!

ChrisA


From wxjmfauth at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 14:17:16 2012
From: wxjmfauth at gmail.com (wxjmfauth at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:17:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Script for finding words of any size that do NOT contain vowels
	with acute diacritic marks?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2354.1350493663.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <a7454cb7-e6dc-4167-b72a-56a67a5873a7@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2350.1350486045.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<748e561a-7e75-4b13-be6b-91831d3b59c4@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2354.1350493663.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <84d4571f-430a-4fb3-8e54-cf6769a2c76f@googlegroups.com>

Le mercredi 17 octobre 2012 19:07:43 UTC+2, Ian a ?crit?:
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 9:32 AM,  <wxjmfauth at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >>>> import unicodedata
> 
> >>>> def HasDiacritics(w):
> 
> > ...     w_decomposed = unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', w)
> 
> > ...     return 'no' if len(w) == len(w_decomposed) else 'yes'
> 
> > ...
> 
> >>>> HasDiacritics('?l?phant')
> 
> > 'yes'
> 
> >>>> HasDiacritics('elephant')
> 
> > 'no'
> 
> >>>> HasDiacritics('\N{LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS AND MACRON}')
> 
> > 'yes'
> 
> >>>> HasDiacritics('U')
> 
> > 'no'
> 
> 
> 
> Is there something wrong with True and False that you had to replace
> 
> them with strings?
> 
> 
> 
> "return len(w) != len(w_decomposed)" is all you need.

Not at all, I knew this. In this I decided to program like
this.

Do you get it?  Yes/No  or True/False

jmf



From wxjmfauth at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 14:17:16 2012
From: wxjmfauth at gmail.com (wxjmfauth at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:17:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Script for finding words of any size that do NOT contain vowels
	with acute diacritic marks?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2354.1350493663.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <a7454cb7-e6dc-4167-b72a-56a67a5873a7@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2350.1350486045.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<748e561a-7e75-4b13-be6b-91831d3b59c4@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2354.1350493663.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <84d4571f-430a-4fb3-8e54-cf6769a2c76f@googlegroups.com>

Le mercredi 17 octobre 2012 19:07:43 UTC+2, Ian a ?crit?:
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 9:32 AM,  <wxjmfauth at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >>>> import unicodedata
> 
> >>>> def HasDiacritics(w):
> 
> > ...     w_decomposed = unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', w)
> 
> > ...     return 'no' if len(w) == len(w_decomposed) else 'yes'
> 
> > ...
> 
> >>>> HasDiacritics('?l?phant')
> 
> > 'yes'
> 
> >>>> HasDiacritics('elephant')
> 
> > 'no'
> 
> >>>> HasDiacritics('\N{LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS AND MACRON}')
> 
> > 'yes'
> 
> >>>> HasDiacritics('U')
> 
> > 'no'
> 
> 
> 
> Is there something wrong with True and False that you had to replace
> 
> them with strings?
> 
> 
> 
> "return len(w) != len(w_decomposed)" is all you need.

Not at all, I knew this. In this I decided to program like
this.

Do you get it?  Yes/No  or True/False

jmf



From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 14:22:29 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 05:22:29 +1100
Subject: Script for finding words of any size that do NOT contain vowels
	with acute diacritic marks?
In-Reply-To: <84d4571f-430a-4fb3-8e54-cf6769a2c76f@googlegroups.com>
References: <a7454cb7-e6dc-4167-b72a-56a67a5873a7@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2350.1350486045.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<748e561a-7e75-4b13-be6b-91831d3b59c4@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2354.1350493663.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<84d4571f-430a-4fb3-8e54-cf6769a2c76f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpm6Bwv3jJW44tPR1uHiJin=1aGLBmCoENtS0jVrb5Qng@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 5:17 AM,  <wxjmfauth at gmail.com> wrote:
> Not at all, I knew this. In this I decided to program like
> this.
>
> Do you get it?  Yes/No  or True/False

Yes but why? When you're returning a boolean concept, why not return a
boolean value? You don't even use values with one that
compares-as-true and the other that compares-as-false (for instance,
you could write the function so that it returns just the
diacritic-containing characters, meaning it'll return "" if there
aren't any). To what benefit?

Puzzled.

ChrisA


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 14:27:12 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 12:27:12 -0600
Subject: Script for finding words of any size that do NOT contain vowels
	with acute diacritic marks?
In-Reply-To: <84d4571f-430a-4fb3-8e54-cf6769a2c76f@googlegroups.com>
References: <a7454cb7-e6dc-4167-b72a-56a67a5873a7@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2350.1350486045.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<748e561a-7e75-4b13-be6b-91831d3b59c4@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2354.1350493663.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<84d4571f-430a-4fb3-8e54-cf6769a2c76f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmiUbOed5tHQUb0oxsRhWb4QMKR578JyLjzMGrS=AsKeQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 12:17 PM,  <wxjmfauth at gmail.com> wrote:
> Not at all, I knew this. In this I decided to program like
> this.
>
> Do you get it?  Yes/No  or True/False

It's just bad style, because both 'yes' and 'no' evaluate true.

if HasDiacritics('?l?phant'):
    print('Correct!')

if HasDiacritics('elephant'):
    print('Error!')

Prints:

Correct!
Error!

You could replace the test with "if HasDiacritics('elephant') ==
'yes':", but why force the caller to write that out when the former
test is more natural and less prone to error (e.g. typoing 'yes')?


From wxjmfauth at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 14:33:30 2012
From: wxjmfauth at gmail.com (wxjmfauth at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:33:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Script for finding words of any size that do NOT contain vowels
	with acute diacritic marks?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2360.1350498464.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <a7454cb7-e6dc-4167-b72a-56a67a5873a7@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2350.1350486045.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<748e561a-7e75-4b13-be6b-91831d3b59c4@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2354.1350493663.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<84d4571f-430a-4fb3-8e54-cf6769a2c76f@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2360.1350498464.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <64995d1a-5c04-4a90-a6a1-e73aa2ed5e34@googlegroups.com>

Le mercredi 17 octobre 2012 20:28:21 UTC+2, Ian a ?crit?:
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 12:17 PM,  <wxjmfauth at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Not at all, I knew this. In this I decided to program like
> 
> > this.
> 
> >
> 
> > Do you get it?  Yes/No  or True/False
> 
> 
> 
> It's just bad style, because both 'yes' and 'no' evaluate true.
> 
> 
> 
> if HasDiacritics('?l?phant'):
> 
>     print('Correct!')
> 
> 
> 
> if HasDiacritics('elephant'):
> 
>     print('Error!')
> 
> 
> 
> Prints:
> 
> 
> 
> Correct!
> 
> Error!
> 
> 
> 
> You could replace the test with "if HasDiacritics('elephant') ==
> 
> 'yes':", but why force the caller to write that out when the former
> 
> test is more natural and less prone to error (e.g. typoing 'yes')?

I *know* all this. In my prev. msg, the goal was to emph. the
usage of *unicode.normalize()".

jmf


From wxjmfauth at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 14:33:30 2012
From: wxjmfauth at gmail.com (wxjmfauth at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:33:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Script for finding words of any size that do NOT contain vowels
	with acute diacritic marks?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2360.1350498464.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <a7454cb7-e6dc-4167-b72a-56a67a5873a7@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2350.1350486045.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<748e561a-7e75-4b13-be6b-91831d3b59c4@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2354.1350493663.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<84d4571f-430a-4fb3-8e54-cf6769a2c76f@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2360.1350498464.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <64995d1a-5c04-4a90-a6a1-e73aa2ed5e34@googlegroups.com>

Le mercredi 17 octobre 2012 20:28:21 UTC+2, Ian a ?crit?:
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 12:17 PM,  <wxjmfauth at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Not at all, I knew this. In this I decided to program like
> 
> > this.
> 
> >
> 
> > Do you get it?  Yes/No  or True/False
> 
> 
> 
> It's just bad style, because both 'yes' and 'no' evaluate true.
> 
> 
> 
> if HasDiacritics('?l?phant'):
> 
>     print('Correct!')
> 
> 
> 
> if HasDiacritics('elephant'):
> 
>     print('Error!')
> 
> 
> 
> Prints:
> 
> 
> 
> Correct!
> 
> Error!
> 
> 
> 
> You could replace the test with "if HasDiacritics('elephant') ==
> 
> 'yes':", but why force the caller to write that out when the former
> 
> test is more natural and less prone to error (e.g. typoing 'yes')?

I *know* all this. In my prev. msg, the goal was to emph. the
usage of *unicode.normalize()".

jmf


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 17 15:20:14 2012
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 12:20:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2357.1350497815.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2357.1350497815.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0bdf81b2-fa16-4fce-b6a5-3e4cf3a8411b@googlegroups.com>

On 10/17/2012 12:16 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 3:48 AM,  rurpy wrote:
>>On 10/16/2012 08:45 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> Except that you've made a 180-
>>> degree turn from your advice to "ignore" bad behaviour, but apparently
>>> didn't notice that *sending private emails* is not by any definition
>>> "ignoring". So apparently you don't actually agree with your own advice.
>>
>> Do you have Asberger's by any chance?  Can you understand that
>> I said "ignore" in the context of public discussions in this
>> newsgroup/maillist?
> 
> That's nothing to do with Asperger's. Ignoring something/someone does
> not include sending a private message. What you may be trying to say
> is that we should refrain from publicly responding to bad behaviour,
> which is not the same thing. If you want to pull a Humpty Dumpty and
> use "ignore" to mean "not respond to in public", then go ahead, I'm
> not stopping you - but do please make it clear somewhere in your post.

I thought (and think now) that it was quite clear in
context that "ignore" was to be taken relative to what
was being discussed -- responding in this list.

Did you seriously think I meant you weren't supposed 
even read it?  That you must not print it out and burn 
it in effigy?  That you can't mention it to a friend as 
an example of something that pissed you off that day?  
That you can't write a blog entry about it?  That you 
can't report it to law enforcement if you thought it was 
threatening?  I see responding privately to the poster
in exactly the same vein.

Ignore it *on the list*.

I hope that makes it clear enough?


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 17 15:53:13 2012
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 12:53:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <0bdf81b2-fa16-4fce-b6a5-3e4cf3a8411b@googlegroups.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2357.1350497815.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<0bdf81b2-fa16-4fce-b6a5-3e4cf3a8411b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c0111294-97d2-4669-8e9f-b6f6eb6bc19b@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 1:20:15 PM UTC-6, rurpy wrote:
> On 10/17/2012 12:16 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>[...]
> Ignore it *on the list*.

Quick addendum: I wrote earlier (in some post in this thread 
I don't have time to dig up now) that the above possibly should 
not apply when one is the target of (a perceived) offensive post.


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 16:28:30 2012
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:28:30 +0100
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpeJkrmXyLPAUwTcn8Ax9aKKGta4AdDE+ExdpPRfX0Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmpeJkrmXyLPAUwTcn8Ax9aKKGta4AdDE+ExdpPRfX0Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxSW1R06_DEshy4FgBcE0u1dKYrNeez8XBy+F0PMLfpdpQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 17 October 2012 19:16, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 3:48 AM,  <rurpy at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>On 10/16/2012 08:45 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> Except that you've made a 180-
>>> degree turn from your advice to "ignore" bad behaviour, but apparently
>>> didn't notice that *sending private emails* is not by any definition
>>> "ignoring". So apparently you don't actually agree with your own advice.
>>
>> Do you have Asberger's by any chance?  Can you understand that
>> I said "ignore" in the context of public discussions in this
>> newsgroup/maillist?
>
> That's nothing to do with Asperger's. Ignoring something/someone does
> not include sending a private message. What you may be trying to say
> is that we should refrain from publicly responding to bad behaviour,
> which is not the same thing. If you want to pull a Humpty Dumpty and
> use "ignore" to mean "not respond to in public", then go ahead, I'm
> not stopping you - but do please make it clear somewhere in your post.

I would also assume that ignoring a post means not replying on or off list.

Moreover, I think it's unfortunate for you to make this comment with
an irrelevant reference to Asperger's syndrome. I'll give you the
benefit of the doubt that you didn't mean it this way but the comment
is easily interpreted as being disparaging to people with Asperger's.

Generally I think that using psychological disorders or medical
conditions as part of ad hominem risks offending people for no good
reason. If you mean to accuse Steven of pedantry then why not use
words like "pedantic" rather then words like "autistic".


Oscar


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 17 17:10:34 2012
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 14:10:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2362.1350505715.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmpeJkrmXyLPAUwTcn8Ax9aKKGta4AdDE+ExdpPRfX0Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2362.1350505715.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <35b41895-45d9-4f2e-9285-2bb0c36fb2a6@googlegroups.com>

On 10/17/2012 02:28 PM, Oscar Benjamin wrote:> On 17 October 2012 19:16, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 3:48 AM,  <rurpy at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>On 10/16/2012 08:45 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>> Except that you've made a 180-
>>>> degree turn from your advice to "ignore" bad behaviour, but apparently
>>>> didn't notice that *sending private emails* is not by any definition
>>>> "ignoring". So apparently you don't actually agree with your own advice.
>>>
>>> Do you have Asberger's by any chance?  Can you understand that
>>> I said "ignore" in the context of public discussions in this
>>> newsgroup/maillist?
>>
>> That's nothing to do with Asperger's. Ignoring something/someone does
>> not include sending a private message. What you may be trying to say
>> is that we should refrain from publicly responding to bad behaviour,
>> which is not the same thing. If you want to pull a Humpty Dumpty and
>> use "ignore" to mean "not respond to in public", then go ahead, I'm
>> not stopping you - but do please make it clear somewhere in your post.
> 
> I would also assume that ignoring a post means not replying on or off list.

Then I hope my reply to Chris clarified that for you as well.

> Moreover, I think it's unfortunate for you to make this comment with
> an irrelevant reference to Asperger's syndrome. I'll give you the
> benefit of the doubt that you didn't mean it this way but the comment
> is easily interpreted as being disparaging to people with Asperger's.

Yes, on rereading that, I agree it was uncalled for and I 
retract it and apologize to any who may have been offended 
by it.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Oct 17 17:46:09 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 17:46:09 -0400
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <ee56557d-4450-4308-8488-8e2b6c1f9bc3@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
References: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2321.1350451320.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<ee56557d-4450-4308-8488-8e2b6c1f9bc3@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k5n8v5$740$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/17/2012 3:13 AM, rusi wrote:
> On Oct 17, 10:22 am, Terry Reedy <tjre... at udel.edu> wrote:
>> On 10/16/2012 9:54 PM, Kevin Anthony wrote:
>>
>>> I've been teaching myself list comprehension, and i've run across
>>> something i'm not able to convert.

My response is to the part Kevin could *not* convert, not the parts he 
did convert. I attempted to explain why he could not convert that part.

>> list comprehensions specifically abbreviate the code that they are
>> (essentially) equivalent to.
>>
>> res = []
>> for item in source:
>>     res.append(f(item))
>> res
>>
>> <==>
>>
>> [f(item) for item in source]
>>
>> Matrix multiplication does not fit the pattern above. The reduction is
>> number addition rather than list appending.
>
> Dunno why you say that.

Because it is true and because it makes an essential point about what 
one can and cannot sensibly do with comprehensions. They are not 
intended to be a replacement for *all* loops.

The essential inner reduction by addition of products that Kevin was 
'not able to convert' cannot be converted (with out some obnoxious 
trickery and *some* extra helper), so his request for a sensible 
conversion is futile.

> Heres matrix multiply using list comprehensions:

plus a helper function that does the inner reduction otherwise, as I 
implied it should be

> from operator import add
> def dot(p,q): return reduce(add, (x*y for x,y in zip(p,q)))

Right, this is the addition reduction that the OP was trying to
convert to a list comp. It cannot be done and you have not done it 
either. Note the the vector of products is produced as a comprehension. 
That you left it as a 'generator expression' is not relevant.

The important point is the the addition combines the products of 
different iterations and list comps, by their nature, cannot directly do 
that.

> def transpose(m): return zip(*m)
>
> def mm(a,b): return mmt(a, transpose(b))
>
> def mmt(a,b): return [[dot(ra, rb) for rb in b] for ra in a]

This is the repeated append part of the original nested loops and that, 
as I said, can be re-expressed as a list comp. But that was not the part 
Kevin was having difficulty with and not the part I was talking about.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 18:05:12 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 18:05:12 -0400
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmowxiLndDVS6MgUuGtew4ULjjnQOpUvmd1A3KhGap-pxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507D7540.9010303@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVVFiZbtPEXA1Gpa_yg8g9e=oN0gyF=b8jnGnUsSPZ6vA@mail.gmail.com>
	<94BCE27A-C403-4339-B0A6-DFCCAF859BDD@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVz+4SBv3BfR=-UGSBF0iA4sCop+ATy-iE8L7_gcLUm2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<9A6903B3-2C27-401B-937A-E2D49A2ADA99@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUnAESf7o+9wahxq7W7qaDKRaVn=8+gAox=ouPsqgQVVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmowxiLndDVS6MgUuGtew4ULjjnQOpUvmd1A3KhGap-pxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJVM8pTmSuNtGAWuvtc6d0Xdn8n+dVxNsjEPKZHLxStB5w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 5:31 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:06 AM, Demian Brecht <demianbrecht at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I can't ascertain what your strengths are as I don't work with you on a daily basis (one of the many benefits of working with people smarter than you ;)).
>>
>> Doubt that, unless they have 160+ I.Q.'s(been seeing psychiatrists
>> since I was 13). I'm very secure in my childlike intellectualism.
>
> A high IQ just proves ability to score well on IQ tests. On the whole,
> your statement strikes me as reminiscent of Sheldon Cooper's
> insistence that "I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested!".
>

Someone insulted my intelligence, and stated how they worked with much
smarter people...this was just a confidence statement that I'm
intelligent as well, so don't get uppity with me.

> Personally, I've never taken an IQ test, so I don't know how well I'd
> score. But I'm a school dropout, never went to
> college/uni/TAFE/etc/etc, don't have any certifications of any sort.

Me too, I was tested earlier in life, and took others. Dropped out in
ninth grade, and went to the library to self learn, which isn't always
the best path, but the one I took as well.

> I'm a pretty uneducated fella, according to my
> r&eacute;sum&htmlentitiesdontworkhere; (that's "resume" when folded
> into ASCII). So according to how most people think about intelligence,
> I probably have a sub-par IQ.

There are many aspects to 'sub-par I.Q.', because I like to think
everyone has a savant skill in them.

 On the flip side, I'm a professional
> programmer, I run a server where people play Dungeons and Dragons, and
> I'm a well-respected wordsmith as Dungeon Master. Plus, I work in
> theatre (in fact, at the moment I'm posting from the bio box, sitting
> next to the follow spot that I'll be operating for the next two
> weeks). So I think I have enough muscle upstairs to get through
> life...

Bench pressing those molecules, and problem solving is just like bench
pressing some weight...it gives you the ability to do a little heavy
mental lifting when necessary.

>
> But Dwight (and I'll continue to address you as such until you change
> your mail headers),
I'll get to that eventually.

 a LOT of what you're saying is coming across as
> over-inflated ego.

No, just stating to another I'm intelligent as well, so don't push the
subject if you don't want the actual response of who I am.

 Maybe you are a majorly interdisciplinary learner;
> but boasting that you're "the most interdisciplinary learner [we]
> might have ever encountered" just comes across poorly.

Not a boast. I'm forgetful sometimes because I OCD crash coursing
everything, so I just say that with confidence, not arrogance.

 One thing I've
> learned from various groups is that, no matter how X you are, there's
> someone else who's even more X - for any X. Maybe it isn't true
> somewhere, maybe you really are the peak - but more than likely you
> aren't,
Probably not, I've met many who I can tell you are greater, but I have
my pride as well when I enter into a conversation, and get insulted.


 and it's much more pleasant to be proved better than your
> claim than to be proved worse.
>
> (There are exceptions, of course. I have absolutely no doubt that I am
> the person most familiar with the RosMud++ code and thus the person
> best positioned to maintain that project. This is because I wrote it.
> But I am not claiming to be the best C++ programmer in the world,
> because there are a lot of other C++ programmers among the seven
> billion here.)
>

Went to write my own language as well, but got caught up in a million
more I liked better.

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 18:08:16 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 18:08:16 -0400
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <k5meqb$edu$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <507D7540.9010303@gmail.com>
	<988533988.834634.1350400381609.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<mailman.2302.1350435480.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5meqb$edu$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJVcpk0_EWUYcWsiAyx+kjVjDZaPU6PUNM6iPs7n2xty1g@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 2012-10-17, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> No I'm not a troll. I like to answer, as well as ask, and sometimes
>> things get heated, and you get called a name, and the name takes the
>> argument out of context sometimes.
>
> Uh, what?  How can a name take an argument out of context?  "Taking
> something out of context" is something done by a somebody who is
> reading or quoting somebody else.
>
> --
I meant that you get called a name when someone reads something that
has been taken out of the context of several arguments between a few
people in several threads, and call you something like a racist.

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 18:29:31 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 18:29:31 -0400
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671AD00@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
References: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507D7540.9010303@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVVFiZbtPEXA1Gpa_yg8g9e=oN0gyF=b8jnGnUsSPZ6vA@mail.gmail.com>
	<94BCE27A-C403-4339-B0A6-DFCCAF859BDD@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVz+4SBv3BfR=-UGSBF0iA4sCop+ATy-iE8L7_gcLUm2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<9A6903B3-2C27-401B-937A-E2D49A2ADA99@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUnAESf7o+9wahxq7W7qaDKRaVn=8+gAox=ouPsqgQVVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671AD00@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJVsKq+vZt+b80LeKxeR7DZEtMNnzXW-6Or-HGMyjAdxQQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 12:38 PM, Prasad, Ramit
<ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com> wrote:
> David Hutto wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:06 AM, Demian Brecht <demianbrecht at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > * Your strength is not design. Using bevel and emboss (and a pattern here and there) does not constitute good
>> design.
>>
>> It's simplicity within a symbolism, and now that I need money for
>> medical reasons, the work I've done isn't perfect, but it's on par.
>>
>> I know when I see something aesthetically pleasing, and if I like what
>> I have, I'm using the same mindset.
>>
>> If you're showcasing logo work, I hope you're ready to supply
>> variations that can be used cross-medium.

Well, all of these are my domain names, and works in
progress/revision. The client would get several versions, and know
what they want me to do, I just have to be able to do it for them, and
add in a little extra to show my worth to them.

>>
>> These are all portfolio sites of my own, and I'm slowly revising them,
>> just like any other rough draft, and as you can tell I'm asking other
>> people to critique it.
>>
>
> Aesthetics and web design are relative to the eye of the beholder.

It's a statistic. I see things that lots of others like, so when I
design, I say tomyself do I like that enough? But it's always in
revision for perfection of the piece being worked on, just like apps
have revisions, so do logos and artwork.

> The question is whose opinion matters. Yours? Mine? Others? Personally,
> I heartily second the recommendation to get professional advice on site
> design. Your site reminds me of something I would create in the '90s
> with FrontPage (do people even use that anymore?) as an amateur or
> hobbyist; not something I would create as a professional attempting
> to market my services.
>
I'm moving toward the smaller devices, but I'm a desktop guy, and so
are a lot of others. And what site doesn't have a frontpage?

> Now I do not say this in order to be mean, but to provide constructive
> criticism. Not because I do not like the site; but because I think
> *other* people will not like the site layout and ultimately my opinion
> does not matter; it matters what your prospective clients think.
That goes back to stats. You might not be the demographic I attract,
but others will like it...hopefully

That
> is unless you can afford to turn away business by sticking to your
> design principles.

No, the client is the main opinionator. If they like some of my stuff,
and have an idea they need implemented, I just showcae I can do it.

>
> Several top level links did not work and that is a bad sign for a
> portfolio. At the very least, take a few minutes to setup a blank page

I thought there were blank pages, and within the next week or so,
there will be more. I'm looking toward other programmers for peer
review to refine my main site.


> so the visitor does not get a 404 error. The background of your logo
> page should match the color scheme of the rest of the website. Oh,
> and your logo for your main page is incomprehensible to me. I am not
> sure if it is a artistic design or some text, but it is too hard to make
> out.
>
> It is hard to say much more since the site is so bare. I will reiterate
> what others have said regarding background sounds (especially ones that
> start by default). If you take a look at some famous websites and you will
> notice that they rarely have sound and for good reason.
>
It's more of a commercial to me. In the end it doesn't show the
webcrawlers for SEO my text, and it's a rough draft. It'll eventually
be just a banner ad, and there will be a more static design.

> Another thing to note is wasted space. Network bandwidth is a commodity.
> You pay for it and your visitor pays for it. You pay for it in terms of
> hosting or internet service while the visitor pays for it in internet
> service and possibly even in their data cap. I cannot imagine loading
> your website from a phone (nor would I ever try to).
>
> You want to be as efficient as possible. Have you ever taken a look at Google's home page source? Now they are an extreme example of keeping a site lean, but maybe that will give you an idea of how important it is. An overly giant GIF and sound files are poor choices. It should be easy to compress the GIF to a *much* smaller file size while keeping the animation. You can probably use a midi file for the same effect with regards to sounds

I'm working on the reduction right now, and that's the reason for
asking for reviews.
.
>
> I hope that helps,

Don't worry, it does.

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 18:30:01 2012
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 23:30:01 +0100
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJVM8pTmSuNtGAWuvtc6d0Xdn8n+dVxNsjEPKZHLxStB5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507D7540.9010303@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVVFiZbtPEXA1Gpa_yg8g9e=oN0gyF=b8jnGnUsSPZ6vA@mail.gmail.com>
	<94BCE27A-C403-4339-B0A6-DFCCAF859BDD@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVz+4SBv3BfR=-UGSBF0iA4sCop+ATy-iE8L7_gcLUm2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<9A6903B3-2C27-401B-937A-E2D49A2ADA99@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUnAESf7o+9wahxq7W7qaDKRaVn=8+gAox=ouPsqgQVVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmowxiLndDVS6MgUuGtew4ULjjnQOpUvmd1A3KhGap-pxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVM8pTmSuNtGAWuvtc6d0Xdn8n+dVxNsjEPKZHLxStB5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5nbh8$tfu$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/17/12 11:05 PM, Dwight Hutto wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 5:31 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:06 AM, Demian Brecht <demianbrecht at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I can't ascertain what your strengths are as I don't work with you on a daily basis (one of the many benefits of working with people smarter than you ;)).
>>>
>>> Doubt that, unless they have 160+ I.Q.'s(been seeing psychiatrists
>>> since I was 13). I'm very secure in my childlike intellectualism.
>>
>> A high IQ just proves ability to score well on IQ tests. On the whole,
>> your statement strikes me as reminiscent of Sheldon Cooper's
>> insistence that "I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested!".
>
> Someone insulted my intelligence, and stated how they worked with much
> smarter people...this was just a confidence statement that I'm
> intelligent as well, so don't get uppity with me.

No, you misread his sentence. That's not at all what he was saying. He was 
saying that one of the benefits that a person may get from working with people 
smarter than said person is that they can ascertain said person's strengths.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From tharanga.abeyseela at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 18:31:39 2012
From: tharanga.abeyseela at gmail.com (Tharanga Abeyseela)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 09:31:39 +1100
Subject: ElementTree Issue - Search and remove elements
Message-ID: <CAOMTrfdhVBdiu0rKgdJk5H1ht0A5=vh6X=-Ut5M67Y=GPHHHug@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Thanks Alian, i was trying to use the following , but i got a path
separator error. I'm using python 2.4.3. is there any otherway i can
use this on 2.4.3

#!/usr/bin/env python
import elementtree.ElementTree as ET

tree = ET.parse('test.xml')
root = tree.getroot()

for child in root.findall(".//*[ParentalControl]"):
    x = child.find("ParentalControl/Rating").text
    if x == "NC":
        root.remove(child)


Thanks,
Tharanga


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 18:34:08 2012
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 23:34:08 +0100
Subject: list comprehension question
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJU-4ufxfLDLbF-WMkcR8Ra7-8haeHh_py2Qr_+rZUfo_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+C4C6f=24oD4seHY_-h1F0GMvBTWNYbzTABXOdtKkAZtE9hdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507E145E.9060008@davea.name>
	<CA+C4C6cjha4bMZ9gyx5fTp0c_nfFQxRGu31dGNMjgHQBu73=ig@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJU-4ufxfLDLbF-WMkcR8Ra7-8haeHh_py2Qr_+rZUfo_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxSxJODPYKpD4B662TKB_Pb6A59Cki1zvnW=R2eVD-HQ3w@mail.gmail.com>

On 17 October 2012 06:09, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 12:43 AM, Kevin Anthony
> <kevin.s.anthony at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Is it not true that list comprehension is much faster the the for loops?
>>
>> If it is not the correct way of doing this, i appoligize.
>> Like i said, I'm learing list comprehension.
>>
> I thought it was matrix multiplication mixed with list comprehension.
>
> Check this out real quick from the docs for list comprehension, but if
> it's a mixture of matrix multi, and list comp, then reply back.
>
> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/datastructures.html#list-comprehensions

If you're looking for a fast solution then you should follow David's
suggestion and use numpy:

> http://www.scipy.org/FAQ#head-045cba7978d75ec548822222150fa6ad308e325a
>
> www.python-course.eu/matrix_arithmetic.php

The most relevant numpy function is numpy.dot:
http://docs.scipy.org/doc/numpy/reference/generated/numpy.dot.html


Oscar

P.S. David, it was a bit fiddly for me to quote your response because
the relevant part was in a post that had no context. Also your name is
listed as Dwight above. That is automatically added by gmail because
of the settings in your own email client. You may need to change your
account settings if you want it to say David when people quote you.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Oct 17 19:12:26 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 17 Oct 2012 23:12:26 GMT
Subject: OT Questions
References: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507D7540.9010303@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVVFiZbtPEXA1Gpa_yg8g9e=oN0gyF=b8jnGnUsSPZ6vA@mail.gmail.com>
	<94BCE27A-C403-4339-B0A6-DFCCAF859BDD@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVz+4SBv3BfR=-UGSBF0iA4sCop+ATy-iE8L7_gcLUm2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<9A6903B3-2C27-401B-937A-E2D49A2ADA99@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUnAESf7o+9wahxq7W7qaDKRaVn=8+gAox=ouPsqgQVVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmowxiLndDVS6MgUuGtew4ULjjnQOpUvmd1A3KhGap-pxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2364.1350511515.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <507f3b5a$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 18:05:12 -0400, Dwight Hutto wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 5:31 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:06 AM, Demian Brecht
>>> <demianbrecht at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I can't ascertain what your strengths are as I don't work with you on
>>>> a daily basis (one of the many benefits of working with people
>>>> smarter than you ;)).
>>>
>>> Doubt that, unless they have 160+ I.Q.'s(been seeing psychiatrists
>>> since I was 13). I'm very secure in my childlike intellectualism.
>>
>> A high IQ just proves ability to score well on IQ tests. On the whole,
>> your statement strikes me as reminiscent of Sheldon Cooper's insistence
>> that "I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested!".
>>
>>
> Someone insulted my intelligence, and stated how they worked with much
> smarter people...

Much smarter people than *himself*, not smarter than you. Demian made no 
comment about *your* intelligence.

> this was just a confidence statement that I'm
> intelligent as well, so don't get uppity with me.

Please tone down the aggression.


-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Oct 17 19:17:01 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 17 Oct 2012 23:17:01 GMT
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmpeJkrmXyLPAUwTcn8Ax9aKKGta4AdDE+ExdpPRfX0Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2362.1350505715.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<35b41895-45d9-4f2e-9285-2bb0c36fb2a6@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 14:10:34 -0700, rurpy wrote:

> On 10/17/2012 02:28 PM, Oscar Benjamin wrote:> On 17 October 2012 19:16,
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 3:48 AM,  <rurpy at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>On 10/16/2012 08:45 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>>> Except that you've made a 180-
>>>>> degree turn from your advice to "ignore" bad behaviour, but
>>>>> apparently didn't notice that *sending private emails* is not by any
>>>>> definition "ignoring". So apparently you don't actually agree with
>>>>> your own advice.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have Asberger's by any chance?  Can you understand that I said
>>>> "ignore" in the context of public discussions in this
>>>> newsgroup/maillist?
>>>
>>> That's nothing to do with Asperger's. Ignoring something/someone does
>>> not include sending a private message. What you may be trying to say
>>> is that we should refrain from publicly responding to bad behaviour,
>>> which is not the same thing. If you want to pull a Humpty Dumpty and
>>> use "ignore" to mean "not respond to in public", then go ahead, I'm
>>> not stopping you - but do please make it clear somewhere in your post.
>> 
>> I would also assume that ignoring a post means not replying on or off
>> list.
> 
> Then I hope my reply to Chris clarified that for you as well.
> 
>> Moreover, I think it's unfortunate for you to make this comment with an
>> irrelevant reference to Asperger's syndrome. I'll give you the benefit
>> of the doubt that you didn't mean it this way but the comment is easily
>> interpreted as being disparaging to people with Asperger's.
> 
> Yes, on rereading that, I agree it was uncalled for and I retract it and
> apologize to any who may have been offended by it.

Excuse me, I think that anybody who was offended by it needs to take a 
long, hard look at themselves. Would you be offended if Rurpy asked "Are 
you diabetic?" There's no more shame in being Aspie than there is in 
being diabetic, or allergic to wheat, or colour blind.


-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Oct 17 19:18:03 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 17 Oct 2012 23:18:03 GMT
Subject: Script for finding words of any size that do NOT contain vowels
	with acute diacritic marks?
References: <a7454cb7-e6dc-4167-b72a-56a67a5873a7@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2350.1350486045.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<748e561a-7e75-4b13-be6b-91831d3b59c4@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidnKfTMcreRQYag4uaOLDqjr_3Cy4RusdN2TndxibXOHqA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2355.1350494207.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <507f3cab$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 13:16:43 -0400, David Robinow wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> "return len(w) != len(w_decomposed)" is all you need.
>
>  Thanks for helping, but I already knew that.

David, Ian was directly responding to wxjmfauth at gmail.com, whose 
suggestion included an entirely unnecessary conversion from a bool flag 
to the strings 'yes' and 'no'. That can be seen in the part of Ian's post 
that you deleted.

Regardless of whether *you personally* already knew that jmf's function 
was unidiomatic and a poor design, you weren't directly the target of the 
comment. I'm glad you already knew what Ian said, but you're not the only 
person reading this thread.



-- 
Steven


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 19:20:31 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 19:20:31 -0400
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <507f3b5a$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507D7540.9010303@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVVFiZbtPEXA1Gpa_yg8g9e=oN0gyF=b8jnGnUsSPZ6vA@mail.gmail.com>
	<94BCE27A-C403-4339-B0A6-DFCCAF859BDD@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVz+4SBv3BfR=-UGSBF0iA4sCop+ATy-iE8L7_gcLUm2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<9A6903B3-2C27-401B-937A-E2D49A2ADA99@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUnAESf7o+9wahxq7W7qaDKRaVn=8+gAox=ouPsqgQVVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmowxiLndDVS6MgUuGtew4ULjjnQOpUvmd1A3KhGap-pxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2364.1350511515.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507f3b5a$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJWbizbtN2oXHa9hUZQ_GWUZmJvGJ_00KALfWKd1CfwnaA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 7:12 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 18:05:12 -0400, Dwight Hutto wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 5:31 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:06 AM, Demian Brecht
>>>> <demianbrecht at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I can't ascertain what your strengths are as I don't work with you on
>>>>> a daily basis (one of the many benefits of working with people
>>>>> smarter than you ;)).
>>>>
>>>> Doubt that, unless they have 160+ I.Q.'s(been seeing psychiatrists
>>>> since I was 13). I'm very secure in my childlike intellectualism.
>>>
>>> A high IQ just proves ability to score well on IQ tests. On the whole,
>>> your statement strikes me as reminiscent of Sheldon Cooper's insistence
>>> that "I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested!".
>>>
>>>
>> Someone insulted my intelligence, and stated how they worked with much
>> smarter people...
>
> Much smarter people than *himself*, not smarter than you. Demian made no
> comment about *your* intelligence.
>
>> this was just a confidence statement that I'm
>> intelligent as well, so don't get uppity with me.
>
> Please tone down the aggression.
>
>
It's email, things get misinterpreted sometimes.

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From redstone-cold at 163.com  Wed Oct 17 19:23:27 2012
From: redstone-cold at 163.com (iMath)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 16:23:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_where_to_view_range=28=5Bstart=5D=2C_stop=5B=2C_step=5D=29=27s_C_i?=
	=?UTF-8?Q?mplementation_source_code_=EF=BC=9F?=
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1709.1349106145.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <bcad3f1e-1633-4786-8137-19032f32b6bd@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1709.1349106145.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <27dc82e4-b09e-4351-8247-09748061e945@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 1, 2012 11:42:26 PM UTC+8, Ian wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 9:28 AM, iMath <redstone-cold at 163.com> wrote:
> 
> > where to view range([start], stop[, step])'s C implementation source code ?
> 
> 
> 
> http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/3f739f42be51/Objects/rangeobject.c

thanks


From redstone-cold at 163.com  Wed Oct 17 19:23:27 2012
From: redstone-cold at 163.com (iMath)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 16:23:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_where_to_view_range=28=5Bstart=5D=2C_stop=5B=2C_step=5D=29=27s_C_i?=
	=?UTF-8?Q?mplementation_source_code_=EF=BC=9F?=
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1709.1349106145.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <bcad3f1e-1633-4786-8137-19032f32b6bd@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1709.1349106145.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <27dc82e4-b09e-4351-8247-09748061e945@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 1, 2012 11:42:26 PM UTC+8, Ian wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 9:28 AM, iMath <redstone-cold at 163.com> wrote:
> 
> > where to view range([start], stop[, step])'s C implementation source code ?
> 
> 
> 
> http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/3f739f42be51/Objects/rangeobject.c

thanks


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 19:39:06 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 17:39:06 -0600
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmpeJkrmXyLPAUwTcn8Ax9aKKGta4AdDE+ExdpPRfX0Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2362.1350505715.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<35b41895-45d9-4f2e-9285-2bb0c36fb2a6@googlegroups.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 5:17 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> Excuse me, I think that anybody who was offended by it needs to take a
> long, hard look at themselves. Would you be offended if Rurpy asked "Are
> you diabetic?"

If the question were sincere, no.  On the other hand, if it were a
rhetorical question with the implication that only diabetics could
possibly be so obtuse, then yes, it would be offensive.

Instead of "diabetic", try inserting the word "black" or "female".
There's no shame in those either, yet I think that the offensiveness
of either of those words used in that context should be obvious.


From schesis at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 19:51:49 2012
From: schesis at gmail.com (Zero Piraeus)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 19:51:49 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmpeJkrmXyLPAUwTcn8Ax9aKKGta4AdDE+ExdpPRfX0Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2362.1350505715.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<35b41895-45d9-4f2e-9285-2bb0c36fb2a6@googlegroups.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CANaSqUdVTu04+ncZKkE5trtvVX9HhfiyCK8yiquK21=U_3wL+w@mail.gmail.com>

:

On 17 October 2012 19:17, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
[on Asperger's]
> Excuse me, I think that anybody who was offended by it needs to take a
> long, hard look at themselves. Would you be offended if Rurpy asked "Are
> you diabetic?" There's no more shame in being Aspie than there is in
> being diabetic, or allergic to wheat, or colour blind.

In the culture in which I grew up, at least, dropping "do you have
developmental disorder X"? into a fairly combative reply like the one
under discussion would definitely be considered rude, not because
there's any shame in having developmental disorder X, but because it's
a plausible assumption that the questioner thinks there is [and that
that's why they used the question as a retort].

I don't mean to imply that this was rurpy's intent [especially given
that he's withdrawn the comment]. But to me it did initially feel more
like "Are you blind?" than "Are you diabetic?" ... and the former is
more commonly used as an insult than a genuine enquiry.

 -[]z.


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 19:53:28 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 19:53:28 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmpeJkrmXyLPAUwTcn8Ax9aKKGta4AdDE+ExdpPRfX0Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2362.1350505715.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<35b41895-45d9-4f2e-9285-2bb0c36fb2a6@googlegroups.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJW61fhcRRJp_bW2q5RDGSvvUCUJKFxgX9i2TkJYDz+uEg@mail.gmail.com>

> Instead of "diabetic", try inserting the word "black" or "female".
> There's no shame in those either, yet I think that the offensiveness
> of either of those words used in that context should be obvious.

To take it a little further, what if I said I got gypped. I think it
goes to gypsy's. Was it racist?

Reneged has always been renegotiable, yet one time I accidently said
to a good black friend of mine that something was nig rigged, and
thought it meant negotiably rigged, but it wasn't racist.

Recently, I told a guy to ramit, because his name or pseudo name, I
thought, was ramit, and got called a racist for it.

It seems that we get too politically correct when we want to cherry
pick a comment for propaganda against someone.

Sometimes it's just ridiculous.


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From schesis at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 20:02:59 2012
From: schesis at gmail.com (Zero Piraeus)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 20:02:59 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJW61fhcRRJp_bW2q5RDGSvvUCUJKFxgX9i2TkJYDz+uEg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmpeJkrmXyLPAUwTcn8Ax9aKKGta4AdDE+ExdpPRfX0Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2362.1350505715.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<35b41895-45d9-4f2e-9285-2bb0c36fb2a6@googlegroups.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJW61fhcRRJp_bW2q5RDGSvvUCUJKFxgX9i2TkJYDz+uEg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANaSqUePb-u5cd-31jxwXRMvB1-CK3FVYcz_WCk0fF+wXCEbTQ@mail.gmail.com>

:

On 17 October 2012 19:53, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:
> To take it a little further, what if I said I got gypped. I think it
> goes to gypsy's. Was it racist?

"Racist" is a word with competing definitions, and intent is a factor
in some of them ... but yes, many people are offended by such use of
the word "gyp", just as they would be by similar use of "jew" as a
verb.

 -[]z.


From rmorgan466 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 20:22:21 2012
From: rmorgan466 at gmail.com (Rita)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 20:22:21 -0400
Subject: unittest for system testing
Message-ID: <CAOF-KfiPdM_H+Nge_HFK6aBmoWKBkDM2HUeCk1D=df2z3+5fYA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Currently, I use a shell script to test how my system behaves before I
deploy an application. For instance, I check if fileA, fileB, and fileC
exist and if they do I go and start up my application.

This works great BUT

I would like to use python and in particular unittest module to test my
system and then deploy my app. I understand unittest is for functional
testing but I think this too would be a case for it. Any thoughts? I am not
looking for code in particular but just some ideas on how to use python
better in situations like this.




-- 
--- Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.--
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From rurpy at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 17 20:24:03 2012
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 17:24:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2372.1350517185.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmpeJkrmXyLPAUwTcn8Ax9aKKGta4AdDE+ExdpPRfX0Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2362.1350505715.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<35b41895-45d9-4f2e-9285-2bb0c36fb2a6@googlegroups.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2372.1350517185.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f16a994e-f45e-4f43-9813-cc1e28adc8cf@googlegroups.com>

On 10/17/2012 05:39 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 5:17 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> Excuse me, I think that anybody who was offended by it needs to take a
>> long, hard look at themselves. Would you be offended if Rurpy asked "Are
>> you diabetic?"
> 
> If the question were sincere, no.  On the other hand, if it were a
> rhetorical question with the implication that only diabetics could
> possibly be so obtuse, then yes, it would be offensive.
> 
> Instead of "diabetic", try inserting the word "black" or "female".
> There's no shame in those either, yet I think that the offensiveness
> of either of those words used in that context should be obvious.

The question *was* sincere.  Some people with Asberger's 
tend to take words and expressions too literally.  I know
because it it is a problem I often have.

Nevertheless I should not have raised the issue in the
newsgroup, especially when criticizing Steven for not 
just asking, but asserting, that someone else's writings
were the products of excessive drug use.

This list is not the place to ask or speculate about
personal traits of posters; rather only on message 
contents.


From roy at panix.com  Wed Oct 17 20:28:47 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 20:28:47 -0400
Subject: bad httplib latency due to IPv6 use
References: <1s42l9-9al.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<eil2l9-nhm.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <roy-B546E3.20284717102012@news.panix.com>

In article <eil2l9-nhm.ln1 at satorlaser.homedns.org>,
 Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com> wrote:

> Some updates on the issue:
> 
> The etc/hosts file contains the following lines:
> 
> # localhost name resolution is handled within DNS itself.
> #       127.0.0.1       localhost
> #       ::1             localhost
> 
> As I understand it, those effectively mean that localhost is not 
> resolved via this hosts file but "within DNS itself", whatever that 
> exactly means.

The path from hostname to IP address is a long and tangled one.  It 
starts with a call to getaddrinfo().  From there, the details depend on 
a wide variety of decisions made by whatever idiots designed, installed, 
and configured your operating system.

One likely path is to check in /etc/nsswitch.conf to see what data 
sources the resolver should consult.  On the box I'm using at the 
moment, it says:

hosts:          files dns

which is pretty typical.  That means, first look in [some set of static 
files, which usually, but not always, means /etc/hosts], and if you 
don't find it there, ask DNS.  Other possibilities include NIS, NISPLUS, 
and maybe some other perverse things.

And, finally, you get to DNS, so now you have to look in (probably) 
/etc/resolv.conf.  I see on my linux box, even that has grown more 
tendrils; there's a whole /etc/resolvconf *directory* full of more 
config files which describe additional ways somebody could have 
misconfigured this mess.

Personally, if I were you (and assuming you don't have some corporate IT 
nazis to deal with), I would just put localhost in /etc/hosts and be 
done with it.


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 20:44:38 2012
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 01:44:38 +0100
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmpeJkrmXyLPAUwTcn8Ax9aKKGta4AdDE+ExdpPRfX0Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2362.1350505715.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<35b41895-45d9-4f2e-9285-2bb0c36fb2a6@googlegroups.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxT4PXtyOKwVZUV1N5Wv4beXbhLpPPT9O6Zq0exReC8_CA@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 October 2012 00:17, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 14:10:34 -0700, rurpy wrote:
>
>> On 10/17/2012 02:28 PM, Oscar Benjamin wrote:> On 17 October 2012 19:16,
>> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 3:48 AM,  <rurpy at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>On 10/16/2012 08:45 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>>>> Except that you've made a 180-
>>>>>> degree turn from your advice to "ignore" bad behaviour, but
>>>>>> apparently didn't notice that *sending private emails* is not by any
>>>>>> definition "ignoring". So apparently you don't actually agree with
>>>>>> your own advice.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you have Asberger's by any chance?  Can you understand that I said
>>>>> "ignore" in the context of public discussions in this
>>>>> newsgroup/maillist?
>>>>
>>>> That's nothing to do with Asperger's. Ignoring something/someone does
>>>> not include sending a private message. What you may be trying to say
>>>> is that we should refrain from publicly responding to bad behaviour,
>>>> which is not the same thing. If you want to pull a Humpty Dumpty and
>>>> use "ignore" to mean "not respond to in public", then go ahead, I'm
>>>> not stopping you - but do please make it clear somewhere in your post.
>>>
>>> I would also assume that ignoring a post means not replying on or off
>>> list.
>>
>> Then I hope my reply to Chris clarified that for you as well.
>>
>>> Moreover, I think it's unfortunate for you to make this comment with an
>>> irrelevant reference to Asperger's syndrome. I'll give you the benefit
>>> of the doubt that you didn't mean it this way but the comment is easily
>>> interpreted as being disparaging to people with Asperger's.
>>
>> Yes, on rereading that, I agree it was uncalled for and I retract it and
>> apologize to any who may have been offended by it.
>
> Excuse me, I think that anybody who was offended by it needs to take a
> long, hard look at themselves. Would you be offended if Rurpy asked "Are
> you diabetic?" There's no more shame in being Aspie than there is in
> being diabetic, or allergic to wheat, or colour blind.

(rurpy, I know you already regret what you said so I'm not trying to
rub it in but I want to respond to what Steven said)

Steven, I almost followed that up with a post pointing out that it was
also quite offensive to you. But then I thought: No, Steven can look
after himself!

You're right, of course. There is nothing wrong with Asperger's. I
don't see much wrong with saying "Do you have Asberger's by any
chance?" (apart from the South-Park style mis-spelling) but I do see
something wrong with following it up with a patronising "Can you
understand..." as if only the other party having Asperger's can
explain your inability to understand one another.

To put it another way, I could say:

    You're an idiot. Why can't you understand the simple things I say?

which is rude but it's rude at one (relevant) person. Instead I could
choose to say:

   Do you have Down's? Can your mongoloid brain just not understand me?

which is rude at so many irrelevant people (I find it difficult to
write that since my cousin and some other very lovely people I know
have Down's but I that's roughly how I interpreted rurpy's comment the
*first* time I read it).

It came across to me as an offensive comment both to you and to people
with Asperger's that I would not tolerate generally. It is retracted
so I hold no ill will and don't want to dwell on it. In fact the very
quick retraction is a good thing to happen in relation to the many
things discussed above in this thread.


Oscar


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 17 20:49:38 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 01:49:38 +0100
Subject: unittest for system testing
In-Reply-To: <CAOF-KfiPdM_H+Nge_HFK6aBmoWKBkDM2HUeCk1D=df2z3+5fYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOF-KfiPdM_H+Nge_HFK6aBmoWKBkDM2HUeCk1D=df2z3+5fYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5njm9$p1c$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 18/10/2012 01:22, Rita wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Currently, I use a shell script to test how my system behaves before I
> deploy an application. For instance, I check if fileA, fileB, and fileC
> exist and if they do I go and start up my application.
>
> This works great BUT
>
> I would like to use python and in particular unittest module to test my
> system and then deploy my app. I understand unittest is for functional
> testing but I think this too would be a case for it. Any thoughts? I am not
> looking for code in particular but just some ideas on how to use python
> better in situations like this.
>

Plenty of options here 
http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonTestingToolsTaxonomy and an active 
mailing list that I read via gmane.comp.python.testing.general

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 17 20:55:58 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 01:55:58 +0100
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <CAHVvXxT4PXtyOKwVZUV1N5Wv4beXbhLpPPT9O6Zq0exReC8_CA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmpeJkrmXyLPAUwTcn8Ax9aKKGta4AdDE+ExdpPRfX0Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2362.1350505715.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<35b41895-45d9-4f2e-9285-2bb0c36fb2a6@googlegroups.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAHVvXxT4PXtyOKwVZUV1N5Wv4beXbhLpPPT9O6Zq0exReC8_CA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5nk22$ti9$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 18/10/2012 01:44, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
>
> It came across to me as an offensive comment both to you and to people
> with Asperger's that I would not tolerate generally. It is retracted
> so I hold no ill will and don't want to dwell on it. In fact the very
> quick retraction is a good thing to happen in relation to the many
> things discussed above in this thread.
>
> Oscar
>

Can we drop this please guys?  Being diagnosed earlier this year with 
Asperger was the best thing that ever happened to me, but being 
constantly reminded about my younger son who has the condition far worse 
than me and is partially deaf to boot is getting up my nose.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 21:02:34 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 18:02:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmpeJkrmXyLPAUwTcn8Ax9aKKGta4AdDE+ExdpPRfX0Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2362.1350505715.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<35b41895-45d9-4f2e-9285-2bb0c36fb2a6@googlegroups.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 18, 9:53?am, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu... at gmail.com> wrote:
> To take it a little further, what if I said I got gypped. I think it
> goes to gypsy's. Was it racist?

Ignorant racism is still racism. Historical racism is still racism.

> It seems that we get too politically correct when we want to cherry
> pick a comment for propaganda against someone.

I think a person who tells others not to be sensitive to his actions
towards them shouldn't post so many complaints about how other people
are acting toward him.


From ranyahayatee at googlemail.com  Wed Oct 17 21:04:45 2012
From: ranyahayatee at googlemail.com (ranyahayatee at googlemail.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 18:04:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: By this program, you get full access to any account SkypeHackers 2013
	and FacebookHackers 2013
Message-ID: <8a382f69-063b-4c1a-8a52-e07572da3db1@googlegroups.com>

By this program, you get full access to any account SkypeHackers 2013
you can enjoy a
http://www.mediafire.com/?1d3o9sum1wbepvr


By this program, you get full access to any account FacebookHackers 2013
you can enjoy a
http://www.mediafire.com/?1zfu43i2jrryrau


From tharanga.abeyseela at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 21:05:42 2012
From: tharanga.abeyseela at gmail.com (Tharanga Abeyseela)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:05:42 +1100
Subject: ElementTree Issue - Search and remove elements
Message-ID: <CAOMTrfcDDS0hW_maL+O8Moh4=KgVE66ObLOD75OawZX9n05Gvw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Guys,

Managed to find the element from my xml feed. but i'm having an issue
when trying to remove the parent node and write the xml file.

#!/usr/bin/env python

import elementtree.ElementTree as ET

tree = ET.parse('test.xml')
root = tree.getroot()
walkAll = tree.getiterator()

for elt in walkAll:

        for x in
elt.findall('.//{http://schemas.xxxx.com/xxx/2xx/0x/xx/ixxxx}Rating'):

                if  x.text=="NC":
                        tree.remove(elt)
                else:
                    tree.write('out.xml')

i was trying to remove the element (not the element tag).

why i cant remove the elt element from root if i found the NC matching pattern.

thanks,
tharanga


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 21:13:25 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:13:25 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmpeJkrmXyLPAUwTcn8Ax9aKKGta4AdDE+ExdpPRfX0Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2362.1350505715.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<35b41895-45d9-4f2e-9285-2bb0c36fb2a6@googlegroups.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJWW7MzU-myD--SApBMG6MK3h_jgfefZRdDJWC=B7B3akQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 9:02 PM, alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 18, 9:53 am, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> To take it a little further, what if I said I got gypped. I think it
>> goes to gypsy's. Was it racist?
>
> Ignorant racism is still racism.

No it's not, that 's why it's called ignorant...you just didn't know
what it meant at the time, and correct yourself afterwards.

 Historical racism is still racism.

No shit Sherlock.

>
>> It seems that we get too politically correct when we want to cherry
>> pick a comment for propaganda against someone.
>
> I think a person who tells others not to be sensitive to his actions
> towards them shouldn't post so many complaints about how other people
> are acting toward him.


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From rmorgan466 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 22:16:38 2012
From: rmorgan466 at gmail.com (Rita)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 22:16:38 -0400
Subject: unittest for system testing
In-Reply-To: <k5njm9$p1c$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CAOF-KfiPdM_H+Nge_HFK6aBmoWKBkDM2HUeCk1D=df2z3+5fYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<k5njm9$p1c$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAOF-KfiZvr_-prOUANbjGpotxUYsY6J6_rB_RM3kE+iOmR915w@mail.gmail.com>

thanks.

I suppose I would need a simple example from one of these libraries. ( i
typed too soon for , "no code needed" )



On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 8:49 PM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk>wrote:

> On 18/10/2012 01:22, Rita wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Currently, I use a shell script to test how my system behaves before I
>> deploy an application. For instance, I check if fileA, fileB, and fileC
>> exist and if they do I go and start up my application.
>>
>> This works great BUT
>>
>> I would like to use python and in particular unittest module to test my
>> system and then deploy my app. I understand unittest is for functional
>> testing but I think this too would be a case for it. Any thoughts? I am
>> not
>> looking for code in particular but just some ideas on how to use python
>> better in situations like this.
>>
>>
> Plenty of options here http://wiki.python.org/moin/**
> PythonTestingToolsTaxonomy<http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonTestingToolsTaxonomy>and an active mailing list that I read via gmane.comp.python.testing.
> **general
>
> --
> Cheers.
>
> Mark Lawrence.
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-list<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>



-- 
--- Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.--
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From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 23:10:13 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 23:10:13 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmpeJkrmXyLPAUwTcn8Ax9aKKGta4AdDE+ExdpPRfX0Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2362.1350505715.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<35b41895-45d9-4f2e-9285-2bb0c36fb2a6@googlegroups.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 10:21 PM, wu wei <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> You don't know me
>
> No, I really do.
Then tell me more about myself...doc.

Your behaviour isn't as clever or as masking as you think
> it is.

It's intended to be involved, witty, and as informed as I can be on a
topic by someone I'm conversing with. And to knw when I don't know, or
remember something.

 You're a sad, lonely, desperate person

No, I'm fine a s a monk until recently, when medical, and faith issues
arose, and for your information, I've been laid quite a few times, and
won't have a problem doing so again.

I've been out here 6-7 years getting my life together without chasing pussy.

 who I would genuinely feel
> sorry for if you could stop acting like a self-righteous cunt for long
> enough.

Not self righteous, again wrong. I've been the bad guy, and now I have
to watch out for them, which seems self righteous, but it's merely the
fact that I have to have a good public persona now.

>
> But that's never going to happen; you've convinced yourself that arrogant
> superiority

Go get to know a real few arrogant individuals, with superiority
complexes before you comment.

If anything, I have an inferiority complex that comes out when I'm
downed by someone.

 is how to succeed in this world, so you better prepare yourself
> now for the shitty, sad life that's going to give you.

It's been that way in my socioeconomic upbringing I'm trying to
overcome, so you're preaching to the choir.

>
> Spoiler alert: you're going to die alone and unloved.

Doubt it. After 6-7 years of leaving sluts, and whores alone, I've
realized I need to be secure emotionally, physically, financially, and
spiritually.

Go insult a troll, because I like to fish off the top of the bridge.
Well above trash such as yourself who like to bring people down for
fun due to their own superiority complexes.


--
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From tharanga.abeyseela at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 23:20:23 2012
From: tharanga.abeyseela at gmail.com (Tharanga Abeyseela)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 14:20:23 +1100
Subject: Remove parent node -namespace issue
Message-ID: <CAOMTrfcObb7Jn7r8ad3gG5dXBhaZqH2XxMuzO7BLOa8LXTMFDw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

I have the following xml file and trying to search the word NC and
remove the grand-parent node from the xml file and write the new
result to  a  new xml.


<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1" standalone="yes"?>
<Feed xmlns="http://schemas.xxxx.xx/xx/2011/06/13/xx">
    <TVEpisode>
        <Provider>0x5</Provider>
        <ItemId>http://fxxxxxxl</ItemId>
        <Title>WWE</Title>
        <SortTitle>WWE </SortTitle>
        <Description>WWE</Description>
        <IsUserGenerated>false</IsUserGenerated>
        <Images>
            <Image>
                <ImagePurpose>BoxArt</ImagePurpose>
                <Url>https://xxxxxx.xx/@006548-thumb.jpg</Url>
            </Image>
        </Images>
        <LastModifiedDate>2012-10-16T00:00:19.814+11:00</LastModifiedDate>
        <Genres>
            <Genre>xxxxx</Genre>
        </Genres>
        <ParentalControl>
            <System>xxxx</System>
            <Rating>M</Rating>

if i find the following match , i need to delete the <TVEpisode> or
the other relevant node (ex <Movies>,<TVShows>)  from the xml file ,
finally need to write the new xml file.

<Rating>NC</Rating>

here is my code, i can find all NC words, but i cant delete the
relevant parent node. i was using root.remove(elt) but it didnt work.
is this a problem with namespace ?


#!/usr/bin/env python
import elementtree.ElementTree as ET

tree = ET.parse('test.xml')
root = tree.getroot()
walkAll = tree.getiterator()

for elt in walkAll:

        if elt.tag[0] == '{':
                elt.tag = elt.tag.split('}', 1)[1]
                for x in
elt.findall('.//{http://schemas.XXX.com/XXXX/2011/06/13/ingestion}Rating'):
                        print x.text
                        if x.text=="NC":
                                print "Found"
                                 root.remove(elt)   ###### deleting
the root node

                else:
                     tree.write('out.xml')  ## write the new xml with
correct data


Can someone please explain the parent node removing method and writing
to the new xml file method.
~
thanks in advance
Tharanga


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Oct 17 23:30:46 2012
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 14:30:46 +1100
Subject: Deployment tools using Python (was: unittest for system testing)
References: <CAOF-KfiPdM_H+Nge_HFK6aBmoWKBkDM2HUeCk1D=df2z3+5fYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7wzk3kjw2h.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Rita <rmorgan466 at gmail.com> writes:

> Currently, I use a shell script to test how my system behaves before I
> deploy an application. For instance, I check if fileA, fileB, and
> fileC exist and if they do I go and start up my application.

The operating system shell, or the deployment framework of choice, is
best suited to that I think.

> This works great BUT
>
> I would like to use python and in particular unittest module to test my
> system and then deploy my app. I understand unittest is for functional
> testing

Well, unittest is for unit testing (testing of small isolated units of
the code). There are many definitions of ?functional testing?, and I
don't think ?unittest? is a good choice for any of them.

> but I think this too would be a case for it.

Reserve the term ?testing? for testing the code of your application, I'd
recommend. Libraries designed for ?testing? are not good outside that
domain.

> Any thoughts?

If a shell program isn't up to the job, look at deployment tools like
Fabric <URL:http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Fabric/> or Salt
<URL:http://pypi.python.org/pypi/salt/>.

-- 
 \           ?Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in |
  `\                                               prayer.? ?Anonymous |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 23:39:41 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 23:39:41 -0400
Subject: Deployment tools using Python (was: unittest for system testing)
In-Reply-To: <7wzk3kjw2h.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <CAOF-KfiPdM_H+Nge_HFK6aBmoWKBkDM2HUeCk1D=df2z3+5fYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<7wzk3kjw2h.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJUu8VFVbJwjsxJ_Lqr8xCx_Evc2mQobwehXGVpYRSu3AQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 11:30 PM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Rita <rmorgan466 at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Currently, I use a shell script to test how my system behaves before I
>> deploy an application. For instance, I check if fileA, fileB, and
>> fileC exist and if they do I go and start up my application.
>
> The operating system shell, or the deployment framework of choice, is
> best suited to that I think.
>
>> This works great BUT
>>
>> I would like to use python and in particular unittest module to test my
>> system and then deploy my app. I understand unittest is for functional
>> testing
>100000000000000000000000000000000000000000
> Well, unittest is for unit testing (testing of small isolated units of
> the code). There are many definitions of ?functional testing?, and I
> don't think ?unittest? is a good choice for any of them.
>
>> but I think this too would be a case for it.
>
> Reserve the term ?testing? for testing the code of your application, I'd
> recommend. Libraries designed for ?testing? are not good outside that
> domain.
>
>> Any thoughts?
>
The unittests are just a basic framework to build upon. Logging and
testing your own functions/classes is something that come in the
pre-algorithm of the app you wish to deploy.


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 23:42:54 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 14:42:54 +1100
Subject: bad httplib latency due to IPv6 use
In-Reply-To: <roy-B546E3.20284717102012@news.panix.com>
References: <1s42l9-9al.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<eil2l9-nhm.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<roy-B546E3.20284717102012@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqGcpTP0LNf12aB5Ubthu4dC98A6c98CQFJzj=qEj4fsg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
> One likely path is to check in /etc/nsswitch.conf to see what data
> sources the resolver should consult.  On the box I'm using at the
> moment, it says:
>
> hosts:          files dns

This is true on Linux, and presumably on various other Unices, but the
OP is on Windows. I think it's hard-coded on Windows to just use the
hosts file and then DNS.

ChrisA


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 23:59:24 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 20:59:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Deployment tools using Python (was: unittest for system testing)
References: <CAOF-KfiPdM_H+Nge_HFK6aBmoWKBkDM2HUeCk1D=df2z3+5fYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<7wzk3kjw2h.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<mailman.2385.1350531584.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <56a5182d-b16b-4f85-bd7c-bb518488d780@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 18, 1:39?pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Logging and
> testing your own functions/classes is something that come in the
> pre-algorithm of the app you wish to deploy.

What is a pre-algorithm?


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 00:02:37 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:02:37 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <CAM32KhqxTVZ2jLEf3Kof9XYfr_tKFugvGEMLTHdSPs2F-=W-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmpeJkrmXyLPAUwTcn8Ax9aKKGta4AdDE+ExdpPRfX0Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2362.1350505715.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<35b41895-45d9-4f2e-9285-2bb0c36fb2a6@googlegroups.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhqxTVZ2jLEf3Kof9XYfr_tKFugvGEMLTHdSPs2F-=W-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJUioM-DZbjqK1NwkJzW_sA7bcGHXF6Z8dLvjKPks+Bv=Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 11:47 PM, wu wei <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> It's intended to be involved, witty, and as informed as I can be
>
>
> You fail on every level here.

According to your opinion.
>
>>
>> No, I'm fine a s a monk until recently, when medical, and faith issues
>> arose, and for your information, I've been laid quite a few times, and
>> won't have a problem doing so again.
>
>
> Yeah, you're full of confidence in yourself, you're not defensive at all.


Confidence is a defence against individuals who want to cherry pick,
and bring you down with propaganda that lacks anymore than a textbook
approach...show some innovation please.

>
>> I've been out here 6-7 years getting my life together without chasing
>> pussy.
>
>
> When you use terms like "chasing pussy", that's probably a good indication
> of why it's been 7 years since you last had any satisfying interaction with
> a woman.

That was a character flaw i had..."doc". I had to rid an addiction to
saving women who were in bad situations, and clarify my mind as to who
I want as a prime mate.


>
>> Not self righteous, again wrong. I've been the bad guy, and now I have
>> to watch out for them, which seems self righteous, but it's merely the
>> fact that I have to have a good public persona now.
>
>
> But you _don't_ have a good public persona. You come across as someone
> desperately trying to convince people that you're smarter and better than
> you are.
>

Again, just your opinion of a few threads. When insulted, you either
insult back, or ascert your intelligence. I took the higher ground.
>> Go get to know a real few arrogant individuals, with superiority
>> complexes before you comment.
>
>
> I have. I'm speaking from direct experience here, and you demonstrate a lot
> in common with such people.

You lack serious perspective n this subject, so stop trying to say I'm arrogant.

>>
>> If anything, I have an inferiority complex that comes out when I'm
>> downed by someone.
>
>
> Then don't react the way you do, because it doesn't do you any favours.
>
>> It's been that way in my socioeconomic upbringing I'm trying to
>> overcome, so you're preaching to the choir.
>
>
> Oh boo hoo, you've had pain in your life, you're surely the only person on
> the planet.
>

I give myself the same fucking thought everytime I have to feel
symptoms which I',m trying to afford the cost to diagnose , and fix.

So cry me a fucking river, and boohoo about my vulgar language.
>>
>> Doubt it. After 6-7 years of leaving sluts, and whores alone, I've
>> realized I need to be secure emotionally, physically, financially, and
>> spiritually.
>
>
> You don't see the hypocrisy in claiming you're after _spiritual_ and
> _emotional_ security and calling women "sluts and whores"?
>
You should have met them. They may have become more, but that's who I
was trying to save from other bad relationships. Use the little
psychology you understand, and you'll see I was trying to save my
mother.








> You're going to die alone with that attitude.
>
>>
>> Go insult a troll, because I like to fish off the top of the bridge.
>
>
> Things like this really aren't as witty as you think.

Your ego couldn't take the insult, could it?

>
>>
>> Well above trash such as yourself who like to bring people down for
>> fun due to their own superiority complexes.
>
>
> No, I just like highlighting the huge discrepancies between what people
> think & say they are and how they behave, especially when that person is a
> hugely disruptive asshole who thinks the incomprehensible crap they write
> assists people in learning Python.

Provide some references please, instead of a blanketed insult.

>
> You're in serious need of self-reflection at a level I'm not convinced
> you're capable of.

You should hear some thought projection I have about my own past behaviour then.

 Maybe you should start another crybaby thread on the

You mean a request for social critique that improves myself, then I'll
throw a temper tantrum. Maybe you wanna come watch, or maybe you have
the balls to participate(but that would be just my old behaviour).

> Python list to find out whether everyone else agrees. Or hell, you're the
> CEO of your company, I'm sure you have dozens if not hundreds of employees
> you can lean on for moral support, right?
Just started, so I'm a startup, and you just insulted the majority of
the list with good dreams of being a productive citizen of society.


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 00:05:02 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:05:02 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <CAM32Khqhg+PLwxO6tDEdVXqdnkON8bQmhu11S=0sgPADcaozAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmpeJkrmXyLPAUwTcn8Ax9aKKGta4AdDE+ExdpPRfX0Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2362.1350505715.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<35b41895-45d9-4f2e-9285-2bb0c36fb2a6@googlegroups.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32Khqhg+PLwxO6tDEdVXqdnkON8bQmhu11S=0sgPADcaozAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJWq0JHYBMgdTEVR7ohcDWyF6kVss1E6b-ieYotb0upf6w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 11:50 PM, wu wei <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Did you really forward a private email to a public mailing list without
> permission?
>
> Are you really that fucking ignorant of the law?

This is a public discussion. Maybe you just need to stand behind a
loophole in the law, but the first amendment overrides that.

Plus, that is the standard. We discuss this as a community. You never
stated you wanted it private, ad if you had, it would have remained
that way.



-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 00:06:21 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:06:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhqxTVZ2jLEf3Kof9XYfr_tKFugvGEMLTHdSPs2F-=W-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2387.1350532961.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <be2a9ec8-76f2-4696-8a69-159dab8514a3@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 18, 2:02?pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu... at gmail.com> wrote:
[a public response to a private email]

I really don't appreciate you pushing public a *private email
exchange*, especially when it has nothing whatsoever to do with this
list.


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 00:06:35 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:06:35 -0400
Subject: Deployment tools using Python (was: unittest for system testing)
In-Reply-To: <56a5182d-b16b-4f85-bd7c-bb518488d780@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
References: <CAOF-KfiPdM_H+Nge_HFK6aBmoWKBkDM2HUeCk1D=df2z3+5fYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<7wzk3kjw2h.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<mailman.2385.1350531584.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<56a5182d-b16b-4f85-bd7c-bb518488d780@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJX+QEj80yZdReOYXQeefnYg99MrjKqCbR4WnpQaOYBYeA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 11:59 PM, alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 18, 1:39 pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Logging and
>> testing your own functions/classes is something that come in the
>> pre-algorithm of the app you wish to deploy.
>
> What is a pre-algorithm?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Pseudo code that shows what the actual algorithm will have. Like a
rough draft algorithm. Tossing the idea around in your mind is what I
meant.


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 00:11:03 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:11:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32Khqhg+PLwxO6tDEdVXqdnkON8bQmhu11S=0sgPADcaozAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2388.1350533105.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6fa85e9c-8675-4241-b7ed-1816a11a51eb@n2g2000pbp.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 18, 2:05?pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu... at gmail.com> wrote:
> This is a public discussion. Maybe you just need to stand behind a
> loophole in the law, but the first amendment overrides that.

I'm not in America, so your constitution means nothing to me.

> Plus, that is the standard. We discuss this as a community. You never
> stated you wanted it private, ad if you had, it would have remained
> that way.

I *sent you a private response* because it wasn't relevant to the
list. You chose to re-include the list, which is an active decision
you had to make. That is not acceptable behaviour, nor is it the
"standard".



From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 00:21:03 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:21:03 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <be2a9ec8-76f2-4696-8a69-159dab8514a3@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhqxTVZ2jLEf3Kof9XYfr_tKFugvGEMLTHdSPs2F-=W-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2387.1350532961.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<be2a9ec8-76f2-4696-8a69-159dab8514a3@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJUJkwL_ie+AXnHY8BTtqceziteejRjwDgfo6wSZmVr3vw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 12:06 AM, alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 18, 2:02 pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu... at gmail.com> wrote:
> [a public response to a private email]
>
> I really don't appreciate you pushing public a *private email
> exchange*, especially when it has nothing whatsoever to do with this
> list.

Usually, etiquette dictates, that we hit "reply all".



-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 00:23:34 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 15:23:34 +1100
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJWq0JHYBMgdTEVR7ohcDWyF6kVss1E6b-ieYotb0upf6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmpeJkrmXyLPAUwTcn8Ax9aKKGta4AdDE+ExdpPRfX0Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2362.1350505715.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<35b41895-45d9-4f2e-9285-2bb0c36fb2a6@googlegroups.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32Khqhg+PLwxO6tDEdVXqdnkON8bQmhu11S=0sgPADcaozAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJWq0JHYBMgdTEVR7ohcDWyF6kVss1E6b-ieYotb0upf6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr8reYtHgwixfkT8L01OSXqiTp4V47GJGPiFH_N0c6vYA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 11:50 PM, wu wei <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Did you really forward a private email to a public mailing list without
>> permission?
>>
>> Are you really that fucking ignorant of the law?
>
> This is a public discussion. Maybe you just need to stand behind a
> loophole in the law, but the first amendment overrides that.

Common misconception. The First Amendment to the United States
Constitution prohibits the *making of any law* that restricts certain
freedoms. It does not have ANYTHING to do with "I have first amendment
rights to say whatever I like". It is restrictions on Congress and the
state governments in the US of A.

Even if python-list were purely US-based, it still wouldn't apply.

Deliberately forwarding a private email without permission is a breach
of courtesy, more than of the law. It may be possible to make a civil
case of the breach of privacy in some jurisdictions, but mainly it's
just a gross discourtesy. (Assuming, that is, that the email wasn't
actually intended to be public. I've at times responded on-list to a
private email, but with a tag at the top explaining that.)

ChrisA


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 00:24:32 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:24:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhqxTVZ2jLEf3Kof9XYfr_tKFugvGEMLTHdSPs2F-=W-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2387.1350532961.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<be2a9ec8-76f2-4696-8a69-159dab8514a3@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2390.1350534065.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <839edc0d-d427-4c4f-ae6d-9d2d8c45ed97@6g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 18, 2:21?pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Usually, etiquette dictates, that we hit "reply all".

Then why did you actively re-add the list as a recipient when I had
removed it?



From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 00:26:26 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:26:26 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <6fa85e9c-8675-4241-b7ed-1816a11a51eb@n2g2000pbp.googlegroups.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32Khqhg+PLwxO6tDEdVXqdnkON8bQmhu11S=0sgPADcaozAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2388.1350533105.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<6fa85e9c-8675-4241-b7ed-1816a11a51eb@n2g2000pbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJUgUsMV9jHrgs8eJ6cq_ULKL-qtrb1Y8F4Xv1G0bak=kQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 12:11 AM, alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 18, 2:05 pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is a public discussion. Maybe you just need to stand behind a
>> loophole in the law, but the first amendment overrides that.
>
> I'm not in America, so your constitution means nothing to me.

But you apparently want freedom of speech.

>
>> Plus, that is the standard. We discuss this as a community. You never
>> stated you wanted it private, ad if you had, it would have remained
>> that way.
>
> I *sent you a private response* because it wasn't relevant to the
> list. You chose to re-include the list,

No, lots of people hit 'reply' instead of 'reply all'. Read around, it
gets stated all the time.

The main response is don't reply privately, keep it on list, unless
otherwise stated.

 which is an active decision
> you had to make.

Based on certain list's rules. Hit 'reply all'

 That is not acceptable behaviour, nor is it the
> "standard".

That's debatable, unless you implied that was your intention.

As I've mentioned before...people can start arguing, and one replies
off list, and then goes back on the list after a private e-mail, and
says ahah, see how they're acting, and they never saw the private
reply you sent.

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 00:28:41 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 15:28:41 +1100
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJUJkwL_ie+AXnHY8BTtqceziteejRjwDgfo6wSZmVr3vw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhqxTVZ2jLEf3Kof9XYfr_tKFugvGEMLTHdSPs2F-=W-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2387.1350532961.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<be2a9ec8-76f2-4696-8a69-159dab8514a3@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJUJkwL_ie+AXnHY8BTtqceziteejRjwDgfo6wSZmVr3vw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrAiV4xKmVV=5TChxOqN0VOxwrz6WzuvPczKEK0kCx5Fw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 12:06 AM, alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Oct 18, 2:02 pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> [a public response to a private email]
>>
>> I really don't appreciate you pushing public a *private email
>> exchange*, especially when it has nothing whatsoever to do with this
>> list.
>
> Usually, etiquette dictates, that we hit "reply all".

That's not actually true either. The convention is to reply to the
list with material that is edifying to the list, or to the author
alone if the situation calls for it. Using reply-all sends the author
a copy as well as putting it on-list, which is unnecessary (unless
it's likely the author isn't subscribed). It's completely unnecessary
to include the list in what's not of interest.

And here I am, posting on-list something that's completely necessary.
(sigh* Alex, Dwight, can you two please cool down a bit? A little
calmness would improve this discussion significantly, methinks.

ChrisA


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 00:31:25 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:31:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32Khqhg+PLwxO6tDEdVXqdnkON8bQmhu11S=0sgPADcaozAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2388.1350533105.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<6fa85e9c-8675-4241-b7ed-1816a11a51eb@n2g2000pbp.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2392.1350534389.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5850938c-792e-416b-9b78-2e487d7a0e4d@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 18, 2:26?pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu... at gmail.com> wrote:
> But you apparently want freedom of speech.

I can't even begin to address this idiocy.

> As I've mentioned before...people can start arguing, and one replies
> off list, and then goes back on the list after a private e-mail, and
> says ahah, see how they're acting, and they never saw the private
> reply you sent.

And yet that's *exactly* what *you* have just done.

Should I forward to this list all of the offensive private posts that
you've sent me? Of course not, because you sent them to me privately
and they're *not relevant to this list*.



From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 00:33:51 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:33:51 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmr8reYtHgwixfkT8L01OSXqiTp4V47GJGPiFH_N0c6vYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmpeJkrmXyLPAUwTcn8Ax9aKKGta4AdDE+ExdpPRfX0Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2362.1350505715.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<35b41895-45d9-4f2e-9285-2bb0c36fb2a6@googlegroups.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32Khqhg+PLwxO6tDEdVXqdnkON8bQmhu11S=0sgPADcaozAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJWq0JHYBMgdTEVR7ohcDWyF6kVss1E6b-ieYotb0upf6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmr8reYtHgwixfkT8L01OSXqiTp4V47GJGPiFH_N0c6vYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJVGrKM-8FT8CvTZjFcPKO2idzav26kujNNCh_YkVAKb7Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 11:50 PM, wu wei <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Did you really forward a private email to a public mailing list without
>>> permission?
>>>
>>> Are you really that fucking ignorant of the law?
>>
>> This is a public discussion. Maybe you just need to stand behind a
>> loophole in the law, but the first amendment overrides that.
>
> Common misconception. The First Amendment to the United States
> Constitution prohibits the *making of any law* that restricts certain
> freedoms. It does not have ANYTHING to do with "I have first amendment
> rights to say whatever I like".

Your constitutional opinion, but not everyone's.

And I quote:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or -->abridging the freedom
of speech, or of the press<--; or the right of the people peaceably to
assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."



 It is restrictions on Congress and the
> state governments in the US of A.
>
> Even if python-list were purely US-based, it still wouldn't apply.
>
> Deliberately forwarding a private email without permission is a breach
> of courtesy, more than of the law.

How many emails end in hit 'reply all'?


It may be possible to make a civil
> case of the breach of privacy in some jurisdictions, but mainly it's
> just a gross discourtesy.

It wasn't stated that that was their intent. I though it was the
regular hit 'reply', instead of hit 'reply all'

 (Assuming, that is, that the email wasn't
> actually intended to be public. I've at times responded on-list to a
> private email, but with a tag at the top explaining that.)
>

That I failed to do. To say please hit 'reply all'

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 00:35:17 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:35:17 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <839edc0d-d427-4c4f-ae6d-9d2d8c45ed97@6g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhqxTVZ2jLEf3Kof9XYfr_tKFugvGEMLTHdSPs2F-=W-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2387.1350532961.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<be2a9ec8-76f2-4696-8a69-159dab8514a3@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2390.1350534065.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<839edc0d-d427-4c4f-ae6d-9d2d8c45ed97@6g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJWtbnUzYvBcuvj5n7N4YvDpFfJ5LmT9A5M30dhWRqftOg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 12:24 AM, alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 18, 2:21 pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Usually, etiquette dictates, that we hit "reply all".
>
> Then why did you actively re-add the list as a recipient when I had
> removed it?

How was I supposed to know you removed it. Usually it's an accident to
hit just 'reply'. Check around, and ask.

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 00:36:22 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:36:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhqxTVZ2jLEf3Kof9XYfr_tKFugvGEMLTHdSPs2F-=W-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2387.1350532961.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<be2a9ec8-76f2-4696-8a69-159dab8514a3@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c205400b-df0f-458d-aa78-aeb6a94e30f0@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 18, 9:06?am, alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 18, 2:02?pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu... at gmail.com> wrote:
> [a public response to a private email]
>
> I really don't appreciate you pushing public a *private email
> exchange*, especially when it has nothing whatsoever to do with this
> list.

Speaking generally I agree.

Specifically one of the points discussed in this same thread --
correcting/reprimanding unacceptable public-forum behavior with
private emails -- this looks like a textbook example of why/when it
does not work and serves to underscore rurpy's point that ignoring may
be the best tactic in the long run.

Unfortunately, I feel this whole discussion/thread has got derailed:
Zero you started this thread about aggressive behavior. It does not
seem to me that this was the case you were talking of, was it?


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 00:37:16 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:37:16 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrAiV4xKmVV=5TChxOqN0VOxwrz6WzuvPczKEK0kCx5Fw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhqxTVZ2jLEf3Kof9XYfr_tKFugvGEMLTHdSPs2F-=W-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2387.1350532961.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<be2a9ec8-76f2-4696-8a69-159dab8514a3@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJUJkwL_ie+AXnHY8BTtqceziteejRjwDgfo6wSZmVr3vw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmrAiV4xKmVV=5TChxOqN0VOxwrz6WzuvPczKEK0kCx5Fw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJX8+Xdm=QoT=-_trpXiaNJWJpd3oqdFa8_rZoPjZQ0--w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 12:28 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 12:06 AM, alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Oct 18, 2:02 pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> [a public response to a private email]
>>>
>>> I really don't appreciate you pushing public a *private email
>>> exchange*, especially when it has nothing whatsoever to do with this
>>> list.
>>
>> Usually, etiquette dictates, that we hit "reply all".
>
> That's not actually true either. The convention is to reply to the
> list with material that is edifying to the list, or to the author
> alone if the situation calls for it. Using reply-all sends the author
> a copy as well as putting it on-list, which is unnecessary (unless
> it's likely the author isn't subscribed). It's completely unnecessary
> to include the list in what's not of interest.
>
> And here I am, posting on-list something that's completely necessary.
> (sigh* Alex, Dwight, can you two please cool down a bit? A little
> calmness would improve this discussion significantly, methinks.
>
Sometimes an e-mail doesn't convey tone, or pitch of voice. If it were
face to face, instead of text, things would be much different.


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 00:42:21 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 15:42:21 +1100
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJVGrKM-8FT8CvTZjFcPKO2idzav26kujNNCh_YkVAKb7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
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	<CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32Khqhg+PLwxO6tDEdVXqdnkON8bQmhu11S=0sgPADcaozAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJWq0JHYBMgdTEVR7ohcDWyF6kVss1E6b-ieYotb0upf6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmr8reYtHgwixfkT8L01OSXqiTp4V47GJGPiFH_N0c6vYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVGrKM-8FT8CvTZjFcPKO2idzav26kujNNCh_YkVAKb7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqABfUhSw6k-190fSKzipYnw4JAHOwD-w0CP3tQyuKiSg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Common misconception. The First Amendment to the United States
>> Constitution prohibits the *making of any law* that restricts certain
>> freedoms. It does not have ANYTHING to do with "I have first amendment
>> rights to say whatever I like".
>
> Your constitutional opinion, but not everyone's.
>
> And I quote:
>
> "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
> or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or -->abridging the freedom
> of speech, or of the press<--; or the right of the people peaceably to
> assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

That's one entire sentence. "Congress shall make no law... abridging
the freedom..." - it's ONLY preventing Congress's actions. The
Constitution was subsequently applied by the Supreme Court to state
governments as well, but it's still only restricting state and federal
law-makers.

ChrisA


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 00:57:58 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (Dwight Hutto)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:57:58 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <5850938c-792e-416b-9b78-2e487d7a0e4d@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32Khqhg+PLwxO6tDEdVXqdnkON8bQmhu11S=0sgPADcaozAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2388.1350533105.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<6fa85e9c-8675-4241-b7ed-1816a11a51eb@n2g2000pbp.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2392.1350534389.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5850938c-792e-416b-9b78-2e487d7a0e4d@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJWBWcChLfs0uO7_JnuS57iUy=tiJ2+1GR6puQig0uWfHg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 12:31 AM, alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 18, 2:26 pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> But you apparently want freedom of speech.
>
> I can't even begin to address this idiocy.

Then don't(your idiocy acknowledges your own misunderstanding),
because you don't want the freedom to speak publicly, so don't reply,
or send messages anymore, because your stance is weak, and your word
meaningless if you don't like that particular amendment.
>
>> As I've mentioned before...people can start arguing, and one replies
>> off list, and then goes back on the list after a private e-mail, and
>> says ahah, see how they're acting, and they never saw the private
>> reply you sent.
>
> And yet that's *exactly* what *you* have just done.

No, I included everything that was said, no editing. So stop the
bullshit PR attack, you're not good at it.

> Should I forward to this list all of the offensive private posts that
> you've sent me? Of course not, because you sent them to me privately

Unaware, and of course send them, and make sure they're not falsified
data, because I have google copies of what I've sent..

> and they're *not relevant to this list*.

That's why they have an OT term.It's just conversation other than the
mundane "How do you print a digit?"



-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From hguant at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 01:11:13 2012
From: hguant at gmail.com (Hguant)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 01:11:13 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqABfUhSw6k-190fSKzipYnw4JAHOwD-w0CP3tQyuKiSg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32Khqhg+PLwxO6tDEdVXqdnkON8bQmhu11S=0sgPADcaozAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJWq0JHYBMgdTEVR7ohcDWyF6kVss1E6b-ieYotb0upf6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmr8reYtHgwixfkT8L01OSXqiTp4V47GJGPiFH_N0c6vYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVGrKM-8FT8CvTZjFcPKO2idzav26kujNNCh_YkVAKb7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqABfUhSw6k-190fSKzipYnw4JAHOwD-w0CP3tQyuKiSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <507F8F71.8060907@gmail.com>

On 10/18/2012 12:42 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Dwight Hutto<dwightdhutto at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Chris Angelico<rosuav at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>> Common misconception. The First Amendment to the United States
>>> Constitution prohibits the *making of any law* that restricts certain
>>> freedoms. It does not have ANYTHING to do with "I have first amendment
>>> rights to say whatever I like".
>> Your constitutional opinion, but not everyone's.
>>
>> And I quote:
>>
>> "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
>> or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or -->abridging the freedom
>> of speech, or of the press<--; or the right of the people peaceably to
>> assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
> That's one entire sentence. "Congress shall make no law... abridging
> the freedom..." - it's ONLY preventing Congress's actions. The
> Constitution was subsequently applied by the Supreme Court to state
> governments as well, but it's still only restricting state and federal
> law-makers.
>
> ChrisA
My god people, can we just drop this and move on already? No one's 
opinions are going to be changed, and there's no magic bullet argument 
that will shut down someone you disagree with. Swallow your bile and 
carry on.

Sorry to be jumping in like this, I'm just frustrated that THIS is 
what's the community is going to spend its time on. Seems rather much a 
waste.

--Jonathan

(Also, someone was an idiot on the internet. OH NO! MUST BRING FORTH MY 
EPIC TYPING FINGERS. Isn't there an xckd about this?)


From schesis at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 01:17:07 2012
From: schesis at gmail.com (Zero Piraeus)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 01:17:07 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <c205400b-df0f-458d-aa78-aeb6a94e30f0@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhqxTVZ2jLEf3Kof9XYfr_tKFugvGEMLTHdSPs2F-=W-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2387.1350532961.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<be2a9ec8-76f2-4696-8a69-159dab8514a3@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<c205400b-df0f-458d-aa78-aeb6a94e30f0@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CANaSqUc6TXc1chvmjtdtLQUUktUAzRyhz=by14Muo5mmCY5LQw@mail.gmail.com>

:

On 18 October 2012 00:36, rusi <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> Unfortunately, I feel this whole discussion/thread has got derailed:
> Zero you started this thread about aggressive behavior. It does not
> seem to me that this was the case you were talking of, was it?

Sorry, but I'm having trouble parsing that sentence. Could you rephrase it?

...

I've just been sitting here horrified for the last half hour, trying
to work out if there's anything productive I can say, either onlist or
privately, to help defuse this situation.

And ... well, probably not, but here goes anyway:

David: I believe that you are trying to engage positively with this
forum. I also believe that you have a tendency to misinterpret some
comments as personal attacks[1], and to respond by "giving [at least]
as good as you get". I don't think that's working out in the way you
intend, and I think you'd improve your own standing here by taking a
step back when you perceive an attack, counting to ten, taking a deep
breath, and any other applicable clich? that generally gets trotted
out in situations like this. Sometimes they're clich?s because they're
true.

Alex23: I agree that publishing private correspondence is a breach of
etiquette. I also think that continuing to engage with David over this
isn't going to help anyone, at least while you're both so pissed off.

Got to dash - I think they need me to oversee some Middle East peace talks ;-)

 -[]z.

[1] A trait I share, and struggle to overcome.


From d at davea.name  Thu Oct 18 01:23:28 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 01:23:28 -0400
Subject: unittest for system testing
In-Reply-To: <CAOF-KfiPdM_H+Nge_HFK6aBmoWKBkDM2HUeCk1D=df2z3+5fYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOF-KfiPdM_H+Nge_HFK6aBmoWKBkDM2HUeCk1D=df2z3+5fYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <507F9250.5050302@davea.name>

On 10/17/2012 08:22 PM, Rita wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Currently, I use a shell script to test how my system behaves before I
> deploy an application. For instance, I check if fileA, fileB, and fileC
> exist and if they do I go and start up my application.
>
> This works great BUT
>
> I would like to use python and in particular unittest module to test my
> system and then deploy my app. I understand unittest is for functional
> testing but I think this too would be a case for it. Any thoughts? I am not
> looking for code in particular but just some ideas on how to use python
> better in situations like this.
>
>

You have perhaps a different meaning for deploy than I do.  An app is
deployed at installation time.  After that, it is simply run.

I think you're saying that you have some extra sanity checks that you
test before you RUN the application.  If so, why aren't they just part
of the main script?

If you're not comfortable putting it there, you could put it in a simple
module that gets imported and called by the main script.

I can't see ANY connection between this and unit testing, with or
without frameworks.  Are you planning to run your test suite each time
the user runs your application?  Can he really wait an hour or three for
it to get started?



-- 

DaveA



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct 18 01:29:58 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Oct 2012 05:29:58 GMT
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2362.1350505715.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<35b41895-45d9-4f2e-9285-2bb0c36fb2a6@googlegroups.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32Khqhg+PLwxO6tDEdVXqdnkON8bQmhu11S=0sgPADcaozAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2388.1350533105.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <507f93d6$0$11093$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

David,

While I acknowledge and appreciate your efforts to be less aggressive on 
this list, I think you have crossed a line by forwarding the contents of 
an obviously personal email containing CLEARLY PRIVATE MATTERS to a 
public list without permission, without even anonymising it.

Not cool mate, not cool.

The first amendment doesn't excuse this. You don't get to shout "Fire!" 
in a crowded theatre either.

I think you owe Wu Wei, and Alex, apologies.

Re-adding the list to a clearly Python-related question to the list is 
marginally okay. (I normally wouldn't do it, but some people do.) Adding 
the list to a personal comment is not.

And quite frankly, I sympathise with how hard your life has been, but 
this isn't your personal support group. There is such a thing as too much 
sharing.

My personal advice is that I think you need to take a break for a couple 
of days and then come back focused on Python, rather than on defending 
yourself against real or imagined slights. I'm not your dad and I'm not 
sending you to your room, but sometimes a man has to know when it's best 
to just walk away and let things cool off, regardless of who is right and 
who is wrong.


-- 
Steven


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 01:43:01 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 01:43:01 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <507f93d6$0$11093$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2362.1350505715.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<35b41895-45d9-4f2e-9285-2bb0c36fb2a6@googlegroups.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32Khqhg+PLwxO6tDEdVXqdnkON8bQmhu11S=0sgPADcaozAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2388.1350533105.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507f93d6$0$11093$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJXoX8xQFBUQkwsTgRF8LDeTVT9VhCsvs2peh3hMi4gQ=Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 1:29 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> David,
>
> While I acknowledge and appreciate your efforts to be less aggressive on
> this list, I think you have crossed a line by forwarding the contents of
> an obviously personal email containing CLEARLY PRIVATE MATTERS to a
> public list without permission, without even anonymising it.
>
I get that it was a in a thread, and we;'re always told to respond
all, unless otherwise asked, and they didn't directly ask, so I
responded back to the list like the etiquette dictates.

> Not cool mate, not cool.
>
> The first amendment doesn't excuse this. You don't get to shout "Fire!"
> in a crowded theatre either.

That's an over exaggeration of whats going on.

>
> I think you owe Wu Wei, and Alex, apologies.

But only for thinking that it's always reply all, and I do apologize,
but they should have directly requested it in the email. If you follow
the discussions here, again, it's always you should 'reply all'.

>
> Re-adding the list to a clearly Python-related question to the list is
> marginally okay. (I normally wouldn't do it, but some people do.) Adding
> the list to a personal comment is not.

You know damn good and well opinions flutter like butterflies around here.

>
> And quite frankly, I sympathise with how hard your life has been,

Don't, it's made me a better person to see the very worst people in
life, be kind of a bad ass, and become better at being a stable
person.

It made me who I'm becoming, even if who I am now is just a transitional.

but
> this isn't your personal support group. There is such a thing as too much
> sharing.

It was mainly a business image, and wanting to revise myself, which
I'm doing constantly. Most here are professionals, so I asked, and in
the middle of a small flame war.

>
> My personal advice is that I think you need to take a break for a couple
> of days and then come back focused on Python, rather than on defending
> yourself against real or imagined slights. I'm not your dad and I'm not
> sending you to your room, but sometimes a man has to know when it's best
> to just walk away and let things cool off, regardless of who is right and
> who is wrong.
>

I'm trying, but I do like to defend myself line for line.

I can cool off, but can they lay off while I'm doing it, and do the
same themselves?

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From schesis at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 02:06:19 2012
From: schesis at gmail.com (Zero Piraeus)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 02:06:19 -0400
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
Message-ID: <CANaSqUfLX7V2OxhO+fdVtmQcDzNfEgQfutHak_G-9_1_4nNr1Q@mail.gmail.com>

:

Okay, so, first thing vaguely Python-related that comes to mind [so
probably not even slightly original, but then that's not really the
point]:

What are people's preferred strategies for dealing with lines that go
over 79 characters? A few I can think of off the bat:

1. Say "screw it" and go past 79, PEP8 be damned.

2. Say "screw it" and break the line using a backslash.

3. Say "well, at least it's not a backslash" and break the line using
parentheses.

4. Spend 45 minutes trying to think up shorter [but still sensible]
variable names to make it fit.

5. Perform an otherwise pointless assignment to a temp variable on the
previous line to make it fit.

6. Realise that if it's that long, it probably shouldn't have been a
list comprehension in the first place.

Any I've missed? Any preferences?

 -[]z.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 02:13:55 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:13:55 +1100
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <CANaSqUfLX7V2OxhO+fdVtmQcDzNfEgQfutHak_G-9_1_4nNr1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUfLX7V2OxhO+fdVtmQcDzNfEgQfutHak_G-9_1_4nNr1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmprgLg5Xr+awiumce_Zb5faVsSVRDv1seT_wQ4spM2FdQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Zero Piraeus <schesis at gmail.com> wrote:
> What are people's preferred strategies for dealing with lines that go
> over 79 characters? A few I can think of off the bat:
>
> 1. Say "screw it" and go past 79, PEP8 be damned.
>
> 6. Realise that if it's that long, it probably shouldn't have been a
> list comprehension in the first place.

Depending on how far past, I'd be most inclined to one of these. I
don't consider the eightieth character position to be sacrosanct, but
on the other hand, I'm not going to go thousands of characters to the
right. Most of my development screens will happily go to ~200
characters, definitely above 100, so I tend to write a bit wider than
PEP 8 demands. Generally I'd not look at splitting a line until it
goes over 100-120 characters. (And even then, I won't automatically
split it. I've been known to write some rather long lines of code.)
When I do split, it's usually by dividing the line into multiple
logical actions; if the split looks like type #5, I'll not split it.

ChrisA


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 02:19:09 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 23:19:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhqxTVZ2jLEf3Kof9XYfr_tKFugvGEMLTHdSPs2F-=W-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2387.1350532961.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<be2a9ec8-76f2-4696-8a69-159dab8514a3@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<c205400b-df0f-458d-aa78-aeb6a94e30f0@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2400.1350537450.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2a5f106f-d343-4636-9349-8b2162208bea@y5g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 18, 10:18?am, Zero Piraeus <sche... at gmail.com> wrote:
> :
>
> On 18 October 2012 00:36, rusi <rustompm... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Unfortunately, I feel this whole discussion/thread has got derailed:
> > Zero you started this thread about aggressive behavior. It does not
> > seem to me that this was the case you were talking of, was it?
>
> Sorry, but I'm having trouble parsing that sentence. Could you rephrase it?

I understood that your original post started after Etienne's outburst
against Steven.
David's outbursts are relatively harmless.
I tried to talk gently to him http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2012-September/631949.html
And then gave up http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2012-September/631950.html

Not that I mind: People much wiser than we have expressed that war is
the most horrible thing in the universe and David is by his own
admission a war-damaged individual.

If Steven chooses to engage him thats his call
If Alex chooses to fight with him thats his
I am betting that in the end, rurpy's suggestion -- Ignoring is the
best policy -- or Ben's -- Respond carefully, minimally and with
caution -- is what everyone will have to come to.
This does not mean I dont wish him well, just that I realize that the
sphere of my action and influence are intrinsically limited.

And all this misses the point that you started this thread (I think)
with Etienne-Steven in mind not David-RestOfTheWorld.

(Assuming this conjecture) I would like to say:
Etienne is not a 'dick' or a 'troll' just a human being with the same
buggy wetware that we all have whose logic goes: If you call me an
asshole (when justified) I'll call you can asshole (even if not).
Likewise Alex calling David racist may be justified but is not
helpful.

IOW the robustness principle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle
is as good for human networking as for computers.

[BTW This was enunciated 2000 years ago by a clever chap: Love your
enemies; drive them crazy]


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 02:27:26 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 02:27:26 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <2a5f106f-d343-4636-9349-8b2162208bea@y5g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhqxTVZ2jLEf3Kof9XYfr_tKFugvGEMLTHdSPs2F-=W-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2387.1350532961.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<be2a9ec8-76f2-4696-8a69-159dab8514a3@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<c205400b-df0f-458d-aa78-aeb6a94e30f0@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2400.1350537450.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<2a5f106f-d343-4636-9349-8b2162208bea@y5g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJUZL1+AJAAFD7J9jKkpHzFdwEUcQjLJQ4p8oJFvp-nURg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 2:19 AM, rusi <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 18, 10:18 am, Zero Piraeus <sche... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> :
>>
>> On 18 October 2012 00:36, rusi <rustompm... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Unfortunately, I feel this whole discussion/thread has got derailed:
>> > Zero you started this thread about aggressive behavior. It does not
>> > seem to me that this was the case you were talking of, was it?
>>
>> Sorry, but I'm having trouble parsing that sentence. Could you rephrase it?
>
> I understood that your original post started after Etienne's outburst
> against Steven.
> David's outbursts are relatively harmless.
> I tried to talk gently to him http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2012-September/631949.html
> And then gave up http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2012-September/631950.html
>
> Not that I mind: People much wiser than we have expressed that war is
> the most horrible thing in the universe and David is by his own
> admission a war-damaged individual.
>
> If Steven chooses to engage him thats his call
> If Alex chooses to fight with him thats his
> I am betting that in the end, rurpy's suggestion -- Ignoring is the
> best policy -- or Ben's -- Respond carefully, minimally and with
> caution -- is what everyone will have to come to.
> This does not mean I dont wish him well, just that I realize that the
> sphere of my action and influence are intrinsically limited.
>
> And all this misses the point that you started this thread (I think)
> with Etienne-Steven in mind not David-RestOfTheWorld.
>
> (Assuming this conjecture) I would like to say:
> Etienne is not a 'dick' or a 'troll' just a human being with the same
> buggy wetware that we all have whose logic goes: If you call me an
> asshole (when justified) I'll call you can asshole (even if not).
> Likewise Alex calling David racist may be justified but is not
> helpful.
>
> IOW the robustness principle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle
> is as good for human networking as for computers.
>
> [BTW This was enunciated 2000 years ago by a clever chap: Love your
> enemies; drive them crazy
That only works if they're not already insane.
Otherwise you're just prodding a cornered beast.
]
-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct 18 02:31:51 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Oct 2012 06:31:51 GMT
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <507fa256$0$11093$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 02:06:19 -0400, Zero Piraeus wrote:

> What are people's preferred strategies for dealing with lines that go
> over 79 characters? A few I can think of off the bat:
> 
> 1. Say "screw it" and go past 79, PEP8 be damned.

I've been burnt enough by word-wrapping in editors that don't handle word-
wrapping that well that it makes me really uncomfortable to go over 78-79 
characters, even by only 1 extra. So I don't like doing this.

Just about the only time I go over is if I have a comment that includes a 
URL with more than 78 characters. I hate breaking URLs more than I hate 
breaking the 79 character limit.


> 2. Say "screw it" and break the line using a backslash.

Low on my preference list, but occasionally.


> 3. Say "well, at least it's not a backslash" and break the line using
> parentheses.

I mostly do this. Since most lines include a bracket of some sort, I 
rarely need to add outer parentheses just for the purpose of line 
continuation.

some_variable = spam('x') + ham(
                    some_longer_variables, here_and_here, 
                    and_here_also)

I know PEP 8 says I should drop the final round bracket to the next line, 
but I don't normally like that.


> 4. Spend 45 minutes trying to think up shorter [but still sensible]
> variable names to make it fit.

Ha! Since most of my variable names are already relatively short, that's 
not often much help.


> 5. Perform an otherwise pointless assignment to a temp variable on the
> previous line to make it fit.

Hardly ever.

You missed one:

5a. Perform an assignment to a temp variable that you really should have 
done anyway, but reducing the number of characters in the line was the 
impetus that finally made you act.


> 6. Realise that if it's that long, it probably shouldn't have been a
> list comprehension in the first place.

What if it wasn't a list comp in the first place? :)

Refactoring code makes most long lines go away on their own.



-- 
Steven


From tolidtm at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 02:41:00 2012
From: tolidtm at gmail.com (Anatoli Hristov)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:41:00 +0200
Subject: Change computername
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnMxbp5vOXN7BTdTEb=swd8nLcETugvyr--ZTj7A1=cTQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKhY55NpUnZ3PdZczo2kv-DezMsz0TjWAvPST5cRZyAY30MPaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidnMxbp5vOXN7BTdTEb=swd8nLcETugvyr--ZTj7A1=cTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKhY55MXu4Jm1aDCUSsMrAe3U2wZ260v8hs9Ek4=iKbM_v9Nyg@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you,

I will test this, will keep you posted.

Anatoli

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 7:47 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Anatoli Hristov <tolidtm at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Can you please help me out how can I change the computername of
>> windows XP with or without the "WIN32" module ?
>
> Untested:
>
> from ctypes import *
>
> ComputerNamePhysicalDnsHostname = 5
>
> computer_name = u'COMPUTER'
>
> success = windll.kernel32.SetComputerNameExW(ComputerNamePhysicalDnsHostname,
>                                              computer_name)
> if success:
>     print("Name changed")
> else:
>     print("Failed")
>
> The process will need admin rights, and the computer will need to be
> rebooted before the change will take effect.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 02:52:53 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 23:52:53 -0700
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <CANaSqUfLX7V2OxhO+fdVtmQcDzNfEgQfutHak_G-9_1_4nNr1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUfLX7V2OxhO+fdVtmQcDzNfEgQfutHak_G-9_1_4nNr1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE+T62YO=p94MSuqDYzcoVkfXVzCJWOBCe3RnTNn-s0HOpwxpw@mail.gmail.com>

> 3. Say "well, at least it's not a backslash" and break the line using
> parentheses.

This. More times than not, there's a function call in that line, which
makes sense to me when reading it if the args are on the next line.

> 4. Spend 45 minutes trying to think up shorter [but still sensible]
> variable names to make it fit.

I generally can't shorten my variable names without breaking the
minimum length PEP8 rule ;)


Now having said that, it kind of depends on the code base I'm working
with. If it's my own project, I never go past 79 characters (vim
tw=79). However, if it's a code base that I didn't start and it seems
to consistently go past 79 characters, I'll usually follow suit (with
my feet dragging of course). Nothing worse than inconsistency, even if
it's a standard I don't necessarily agree with :P


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct 18 02:55:11 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Oct 2012 06:55:11 GMT
Subject: unittest for system testing
References: <CAOF-KfiPdM_H+Nge_HFK6aBmoWKBkDM2HUeCk1D=df2z3+5fYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2378.1350521374.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <507fa7ce$0$11093$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

Sorry for breaking threading, but the original post has not come through 
to me.

> On 18/10/2012 01:22, Rita wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Currently, I use a shell script to test how my system behaves before I
> deploy an application. For instance, I check if fileA, fileB, and fileC
> exist and if they do I go and start up my application.

Do you run the shell script once, before installing the application, or 
every time the application launches?

Do you realise that this is vulnerable to race conditions? E.g:

Time = 10am exactly: shell script runs, fileA etc exist;

Time = 10am and 1 millisecond: another process deletes fileA etc;

Time = 10am and 2 milliseconds: application launches, cannot find 
       fileA etc and crashes.


Depending on what your application does, this could be a security hole.

Regardless of what the shell script reports, to be robust your Python 
application needs to protect against the case that fileA etc are missing. 
Even if all it does is report an error, save the user's work and exit.


> This works great BUT
>
> I would like to use python and in particular unittest module to test my
> system and then deploy my app. I understand unittest is for functional
> testing but I think this too would be a case for it. Any thoughts? I am
> not looking for code in particular but just some ideas on how to use
> python better in situations like this.

Well, you *could* use unittest, but frankly I think that's a case of 
using a hammer to nail in screws. Unittest is awesome for what it does. 
It's not so well suited for this.

Compare these two pieces of code (untested, so they probably won't work 
exactly as given):

# sample 1
import os
import sys
for name in ['fileA', 'fileB', 'fileC']:
    if not os.path.exists(name):
        print('missing essential file %s' % name)
        sys.exit(1)

run_application()



# sample 2
import os
import sys
import unittest

class PreRunTest(unittest.TestCase):
    list_of_files = ['fileA', 'fileB', 'fileC']
    def testFilesExist(self):
        for name in self.list_of_files:
            assertTrue(os.path.exists(name)

total_tests, failed_tests = unittest.testmod()  # I think...

if failed_tests != 0:
    sys.exit(1)

run_application()



I think the first sample is much to be preferred, and not just because it 
is a couple of lines shorter. There's less magic involved.


-- 
Steven


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 02:55:47 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 23:55:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <37d4027a-5ef5-42ce-9c0c-554c92aa7c69@n2g2000pbp.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 18, 11:06?am, Zero Piraeus <sche... at gmail.com> wrote:
> :
>
> Okay, so, first thing vaguely Python-related that comes to mind [so
> probably not even slightly original, but then that's not really the
> point]:
>
> What are people's preferred strategies for dealing with lines that go
> over 79 characters? A few I can think of off the bat:

It really depends on whether one is programming for learning, as a
profession or publicly (as on this list).

The third is necessary to say because mailers are going to break long
lines.
As for the other two, there is a distinction because:
For example, a candidate C-programmer would be expected to show
prowess with pointers in an interview that would be frowned upon when
he professionally develops in C for production.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Oct 18 02:56:13 2012
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 23:56:13 -0700
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xsj9c1d6a.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Zero Piraeus <schesis at gmail.com> writes:
> 2. Say "screw it" and break the line using a backslash.

Often the line will break ok without a backslash, but I don't feel any
particular pain in using a backslash in the other cases.

I do pretty rigorously try to keep all lines shorter than 72 columns or
so, unless there's a long literal like a url.  Even such a literal would
probably only occur in throwaway code.  Any specific url in
longer-lasting code should probably be read from a configuration file
rather than being hard coded.


From schesis at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 03:07:36 2012
From: schesis at gmail.com (Zero Piraeus)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 03:07:36 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <2a5f106f-d343-4636-9349-8b2162208bea@y5g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhqxTVZ2jLEf3Kof9XYfr_tKFugvGEMLTHdSPs2F-=W-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2387.1350532961.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<be2a9ec8-76f2-4696-8a69-159dab8514a3@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<c205400b-df0f-458d-aa78-aeb6a94e30f0@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2400.1350537450.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<2a5f106f-d343-4636-9349-8b2162208bea@y5g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CANaSqUeVuvHTRDOi1-R_DyEHFb77r1t98tss26e+XD4fBSKfTg@mail.gmail.com>

:

On 18 October 2012 02:19, rusi <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> I understood that your original post started after Etienne's outburst
> against Steven.

Ah, I see. It was intended as a general request for politeness, but
yes, IIRC that was the exchange that prompted it.

> IOW the robustness principle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle
> is as good for human networking as for computers.

Never thought of it as applying to humans ... that's rather good. Not
universally applicable, but then neither is it for computers.

 -[]z.


From chip9munk at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 03:18:00 2012
From: chip9munk at gmail.com (chip9munk at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:18:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python scripts for web
Message-ID: <98b7e362-14fd-4721-84c8-ae1bc11febac@googlegroups.com>

Hello all!

Please help me start learning about this thing. Sorry for my inexperience!

Here is what I need to do: on some webpage (done in php, or any other different technology), user inputs some data, that data and the request then goes to the server where python scripts calculate something and return the result to the users end. 

Now, how do I do that server part, listening to requests, and calling python scripts?

I googled about that but I do not understand if I should do that by CGI, Flask, mod_wsgi, or any other way... I know to little about that to understand what is the way to go. :/

Please could you give me some info so that i know where I should start looking for my solution.

Thanks in advance!





From rustompmody at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 03:30:27 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:30:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhqxTVZ2jLEf3Kof9XYfr_tKFugvGEMLTHdSPs2F-=W-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2387.1350532961.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<be2a9ec8-76f2-4696-8a69-159dab8514a3@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<c205400b-df0f-458d-aa78-aeb6a94e30f0@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2400.1350537450.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<2a5f106f-d343-4636-9349-8b2162208bea@y5g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2405.1350541649.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bea9131a-11b1-4c78-b6b4-9134b9fef86f@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 18, 11:27?am, David Hutto <dwightdhu... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > [BTW This was enunciated 2000 years ago by a clever chap: Love your
> > enemies; drive them crazy
>
> That only works if they're not already insane.
> Otherwise you're just prodding a cornered beast.

Usually but not necessarily
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angulimala#Story


From schesis at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 03:57:34 2012
From: schesis at gmail.com (Zero Piraeus)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 03:57:34 -0400
Subject: python scripts for web
In-Reply-To: <CANaSqUeAJv3u4EqBymifyKZHey1YohU=O73niTpzYOvZgSV3TQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <98b7e362-14fd-4721-84c8-ae1bc11febac@googlegroups.com>
	<CANaSqUeAJv3u4EqBymifyKZHey1YohU=O73niTpzYOvZgSV3TQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANaSqUe5BxTq-VpBC+yAp-83dUgHbX=CxkBRAZpXuyg6sfsU7A@mail.gmail.com>

:

On 18 October 2012 03:18,  <chip9munk at gmail.com> wrote:
> Here is what I need to do: on some webpage (done in php, or any other
> different technology), user inputs some data, that data and the
> request then goes to the server where python scripts calculate
> something and return the result to the users end.
>
> Now, how do I do that server part, listening to requests, and calling
> python scripts?

If I understand you correctly, what you're describing here is a
webserver - i.e. Apache, nginx etc. I'm not sure why you'd want to
write one of those if you're as inexperienced as you say.

> I googled about that but I do not understand if I should do that by
> CGI, Flask, mod_wsgi, or any other way... I know to little about that
> to understand what is the way to go. :/

These are all approaches to writing the software that the webserver
hands the request off to, which is a different thing. If that's what
you really meant to ask (how to write a script that processes a
request and returns a response), then plain CGI might be the best
place to start, if you're trying to get a handle on what's going on.

Once you're happy that you understand how to build a plain CGI script,
frameworks [like Flask] can be very useful ... and Flask is both
lightweight and has good documentation, so it's not a bad choice for
learning purposes.

 -[]z.


From chip9munk at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 04:10:50 2012
From: chip9munk at gmail.com (chip9munk at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 01:10:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python scripts for web
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2409.1350547078.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <98b7e362-14fd-4721-84c8-ae1bc11febac@googlegroups.com>
	<CANaSqUeAJv3u4EqBymifyKZHey1YohU=O73niTpzYOvZgSV3TQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2409.1350547078.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e10b4aba-a725-46c4-aaa9-0035a099a9bf@googlegroups.com>

To explain, I am basically doing different algorithms and would like to make them work and be accessible as I mentioned in the example... and to add them to the functionality of a specific page... so I have experience in programming, just no experience in web development etc.. 

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 9:57:58 AM UTC+2, Zero Piraeus wrote:
> 
> If I understand you correctly, what you're describing here is a
> webserver - i.e. Apache, nginx etc. I'm not sure why you'd want to
> write one of those if you're as inexperienced as you say.
> These are all approaches to writing the software that the webserver
> hands the request off to, which is a different thing. If that's what
> you really meant to ask (how to write a script that processes a
> request and returns a response), then plain CGI might be the best
> place to start, if you're trying to get a handle on what's going on.

I understand how the lack of knowledge on my part can cause the unclarity of my question.
I will give you an example. So let us say I create two simple python scripts, one does the sum of two numbers
the other one does the multiplication. SO now I want to put these scripts on the server. Now let us say there is a web page that would like to use these scripts (do this calculation). How do I do a "program" that will listen for the requests
from the web page and call the scripts on the request?  
 
> Once you're happy that you understand how to build a plain CGI script,
> frameworks [like Flask] can be very useful ... and Flask is both
> lightweight and has good documentation, so it's not a bad choice for
> learning purposes.

all the tutorials about flask are dealing wit creating the whole webpage in python. I do not need to do that, I just need a service on the servers end.. is flask still the way to go? Also flask does not support Python 3.x jet, would using cherryPy be a good idea?

Thank you for the answers! 



From chip9munk at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 04:10:50 2012
From: chip9munk at gmail.com (chip9munk at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 01:10:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python scripts for web
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2409.1350547078.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <98b7e362-14fd-4721-84c8-ae1bc11febac@googlegroups.com>
	<CANaSqUeAJv3u4EqBymifyKZHey1YohU=O73niTpzYOvZgSV3TQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2409.1350547078.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e10b4aba-a725-46c4-aaa9-0035a099a9bf@googlegroups.com>

To explain, I am basically doing different algorithms and would like to make them work and be accessible as I mentioned in the example... and to add them to the functionality of a specific page... so I have experience in programming, just no experience in web development etc.. 

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 9:57:58 AM UTC+2, Zero Piraeus wrote:
> 
> If I understand you correctly, what you're describing here is a
> webserver - i.e. Apache, nginx etc. I'm not sure why you'd want to
> write one of those if you're as inexperienced as you say.
> These are all approaches to writing the software that the webserver
> hands the request off to, which is a different thing. If that's what
> you really meant to ask (how to write a script that processes a
> request and returns a response), then plain CGI might be the best
> place to start, if you're trying to get a handle on what's going on.

I understand how the lack of knowledge on my part can cause the unclarity of my question.
I will give you an example. So let us say I create two simple python scripts, one does the sum of two numbers
the other one does the multiplication. SO now I want to put these scripts on the server. Now let us say there is a web page that would like to use these scripts (do this calculation). How do I do a "program" that will listen for the requests
from the web page and call the scripts on the request?  
 
> Once you're happy that you understand how to build a plain CGI script,
> frameworks [like Flask] can be very useful ... and Flask is both
> lightweight and has good documentation, so it's not a bad choice for
> learning purposes.

all the tutorials about flask are dealing wit creating the whole webpage in python. I do not need to do that, I just need a service on the servers end.. is flask still the way to go? Also flask does not support Python 3.x jet, would using cherryPy be a good idea?

Thank you for the answers! 



From tolidtm at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 04:22:55 2012
From: tolidtm at gmail.com (Anatoli Hristov)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 10:22:55 +0200
Subject: Change computername
In-Reply-To: <CAKhY55MXu4Jm1aDCUSsMrAe3U2wZ260v8hs9Ek4=iKbM_v9Nyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKhY55NpUnZ3PdZczo2kv-DezMsz0TjWAvPST5cRZyAY30MPaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidnMxbp5vOXN7BTdTEb=swd8nLcETugvyr--ZTj7A1=cTQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKhY55MXu4Jm1aDCUSsMrAe3U2wZ260v8hs9Ek4=iKbM_v9Nyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKhY55MWRQWQbBpv7PXEhX2f11H8AvQoeNg9JA_8F8wJ8Eqh9A@mail.gmail.com>

It does not work the result is "0"

And I don't find any documentation about it :(


On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 8:41 AM, Anatoli Hristov <tolidtm at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you,
>
> I will test this, will keep you posted.
>
> Anatoli
>
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 7:47 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Anatoli Hristov <tolidtm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Can you please help me out how can I change the computername of
>>> windows XP with or without the "WIN32" module ?
>>
>> Untested:
>>
>> from ctypes import *
>>
>> ComputerNamePhysicalDnsHostname = 5
>>
>> computer_name = u'COMPUTER'
>>
>> success = windll.kernel32.SetComputerNameExW(ComputerNamePhysicalDnsHostname,
>>                                              computer_name)
>> if success:
>>     print("Name changed")
>> else:
>>     print("Failed")
>>
>> The process will need admin rights, and the computer will need to be
>> rebooted before the change will take effect.
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From schesis at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 04:42:31 2012
From: schesis at gmail.com (Zero Piraeus)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 04:42:31 -0400
Subject: python scripts for web
In-Reply-To: <e10b4aba-a725-46c4-aaa9-0035a099a9bf@googlegroups.com>
References: <98b7e362-14fd-4721-84c8-ae1bc11febac@googlegroups.com>
	<CANaSqUeAJv3u4EqBymifyKZHey1YohU=O73niTpzYOvZgSV3TQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2409.1350547078.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e10b4aba-a725-46c4-aaa9-0035a099a9bf@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CANaSqUcxfyDG4MaQsQe7jHA8mW3=+YMcPbpDJBqOWFdsR+W_sQ@mail.gmail.com>

:

On 18 October 2012 04:10,  <chip9munk at gmail.com> wrote:
> I will give you an example. So let us say I create two simple python
> scripts, one does the sum of two numbers
> the other one does the multiplication. SO now I want to put these
> scripts on the server. Now let us say there is a web page that would
> like to use these scripts (do this calculation). How do I do a
> "program" that will listen for the requests
> from the web page and call the scripts on the request?

That is exactly what a webserver does. Is there some reason you don't
want to use e.g. Apache to handle the requests?

 -[]z.


From hansmu at xs4all.nl  Thu Oct 18 05:07:00 2012
From: hansmu at xs4all.nl (Hans Mulder)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 11:07:00 +0200
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <507fa256$0$11093$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507fa256$0$11093$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <507fc6b4$0$6861$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 18/10/12 08:31:51, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 02:06:19 -0400, Zero Piraeus wrote:
>> 3. Say "well, at least it's not a backslash" and break the line using
>> > parentheses.
> I mostly do this. Since most lines include a bracket of some sort, I 
> rarely need to add outer parentheses just for the purpose of line 
> continuation.
> 
> some_variable = spam('x') + ham(
>                     some_longer_variables, here_and_here, 
>                     and_here_also)

I would spell that as:

some_variable = spam('x') + ham(
    some_longer_variables,
    here_and_here,
    and_here_also,
)

> I know PEP 8 says I should drop the final round bracket to the next line, 
> but I don't normally like that.

I normally put the final bracket on the next line, where it is
very visible.  Compare:

if looks_like_it_might_be_spam(
    some_longer_variables,
    here_and_here, and_here_also):
    logger.notice("might be spam")
    move_to_spam_folder(some_longer_variables)
    update_spam_statistics(here_and_here)

vs.

if looks_like_it_might_be_spam(
    some_longer_variables,
    here_and_here,
    and_here_also,
):
    logger.notice("might be spam")
    move_to_spam_folder(some_longer_variables)
    update_spam_statistics(here_and_here)

Which one would you say is more readable?


-- HansM


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Oct 18 05:12:39 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 10:12:39 +0100
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <CANaSqUfLX7V2OxhO+fdVtmQcDzNfEgQfutHak_G-9_1_4nNr1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUfLX7V2OxhO+fdVtmQcDzNfEgQfutHak_G-9_1_4nNr1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5oh5q$i3k$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 18/10/2012 07:06, Zero Piraeus wrote:
> :
>
> Okay, so, first thing vaguely Python-related that comes to mind [so
> probably not even slightly original, but then that's not really the
> point]:
>
> What are people's preferred strategies for dealing with lines that go
> over 79 characters? A few I can think of off the bat:
>
> 1. Say "screw it" and go past 79, PEP8 be damned.
>
> 2. Say "screw it" and break the line using a backslash.
>
> 3. Say "well, at least it's not a backslash" and break the line using
> parentheses.
>
> 4. Spend 45 minutes trying to think up shorter [but still sensible]
> variable names to make it fit.
>
> 5. Perform an otherwise pointless assignment to a temp variable on the
> previous line to make it fit.
>
> 6. Realise that if it's that long, it probably shouldn't have been a
> list comprehension in the first place.
>
> Any I've missed? Any preferences?
>
>   -[]z.
>

I suggest re-reading PEP 8, particularly the section titled "A Foolish 
Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds" and specifically the first 
sentence of the third paragraph "But most importantly: know when to be 
inconsistent -- sometimes the style guide just doesn't apply."

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From chip9munk at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 05:22:11 2012
From: chip9munk at gmail.com (chip9munk at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 02:22:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python scripts for web
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2412.1350549775.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <98b7e362-14fd-4721-84c8-ae1bc11febac@googlegroups.com>
	<CANaSqUeAJv3u4EqBymifyKZHey1YohU=O73niTpzYOvZgSV3TQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2409.1350547078.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e10b4aba-a725-46c4-aaa9-0035a099a9bf@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2412.1350549775.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <809c86c5-26a0-4f4a-bce7-ad8f63efa763@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 10:42:56 AM UTC+2, Zero Piraeus wrote:
> That is exactly what a webserver does. Is there some reason you don't
> want to use e.g. Apache to handle the requests?

no reason at all. so i guess the solution is much easier then I have anticipated.
So i guess in that case i do not need cgi or anything?

Thank you for clearing that out!


From chip9munk at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 05:22:11 2012
From: chip9munk at gmail.com (chip9munk at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 02:22:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python scripts for web
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2412.1350549775.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <98b7e362-14fd-4721-84c8-ae1bc11febac@googlegroups.com>
	<CANaSqUeAJv3u4EqBymifyKZHey1YohU=O73niTpzYOvZgSV3TQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2409.1350547078.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e10b4aba-a725-46c4-aaa9-0035a099a9bf@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2412.1350549775.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <809c86c5-26a0-4f4a-bce7-ad8f63efa763@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 10:42:56 AM UTC+2, Zero Piraeus wrote:
> That is exactly what a webserver does. Is there some reason you don't
> want to use e.g. Apache to handle the requests?

no reason at all. so i guess the solution is much easier then I have anticipated.
So i guess in that case i do not need cgi or anything?

Thank you for clearing that out!


From ashishjain.ash at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 05:27:04 2012
From: ashishjain.ash at gmail.com (Ashish Jain)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 02:27:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Remove uncide notation
Message-ID: <e3a36bc8-ccaa-4bf5-a005-f7c016fe1de2@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I have a html string in an object, when I do repr() of that object, I get value as:

{'Id' : 1, 'Body': u'<p> Hello </p>'}

I don't wish to have 'u' as the character in my string representation. As this is not a valid json notation now.

Thanks for your help

-Ashish


From wxjmfauth at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 05:33:07 2012
From: wxjmfauth at gmail.com (wxjmfauth at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 02:33:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <507fc6b4$0$6861$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507fa256$0$11093$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<507fc6b4$0$6861$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <bf646126-e170-4548-b0a1-de2e0444f71c@googlegroups.com>

Le jeudi 18 octobre 2012 11:07:25 UTC+2, Hans Mulder a ?crit?:
> On 18/10/12 08:31:51, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 02:06:19 -0400, Zero Piraeus wrote:
> 
> >> 3. Say "well, at least it's not a backslash" and break the line using
> 
> >> > parentheses.
> 
> > I mostly do this. Since most lines include a bracket of some sort, I 
> 
> > rarely need to add outer parentheses just for the purpose of line 
> 
> > continuation.
> 
> > 
> 
> > some_variable = spam('x') + ham(
> 
> >                     some_longer_variables, here_and_here, 
> 
> >                     and_here_also)
> 
> 
> 
> I would spell that as:
> 
> 
> 
> some_variable = spam('x') + ham(
> 
>     some_longer_variables,
> 
>     here_and_here,
> 
>     and_here_also,
> 
> )
> 
> 
> 
> > I know PEP 8 says I should drop the final round bracket to the next line, 
> 
> > but I don't normally like that.
> 
> 
> 
> I normally put the final bracket on the next line, where it is
> 
> very visible.  Compare:
> 
> 
> 
> if looks_like_it_might_be_spam(
> 
>     some_longer_variables,
> 
>     here_and_here, and_here_also):
> 
>     logger.notice("might be spam")
> 
>     move_to_spam_folder(some_longer_variables)
> 
>     update_spam_statistics(here_and_here)
> 
> 
> 
> vs.
> 
> 
> 
> if looks_like_it_might_be_spam(
> 
>     some_longer_variables,
> 
>     here_and_here,
> 
>     and_here_also,
> 
> ):
> 
>     logger.notice("might be spam")
> 
>     move_to_spam_folder(some_longer_variables)
> 
>     update_spam_statistics(here_and_here)
> 
> 
> 
> Which one would you say is more readable?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- HansM

I use a "double indentation".

>>> if 'asdf' and 'asdf' and 'asdf' \
...         'asdf' and 'asdf' and \
...         'asdf' and 'asdf':
...     print('do if')
...     s = 'asdf'
...     ss = 'asdf'
...     
do if
>>> if looks_like_it_might_be_spam(
...         some_longer_variables,
...         here_and_here, and_here_also):
...     logger.notice("might be spam")
...     move_to_spam_folder(some_longer_variables)
...     update_spam_statistics(here_and_here)
...     
Traceback (most recent call last):

jmf


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Oct 18 05:40:06 2012
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 02:40:06 -0700
Subject: Remove uncide notation
In-Reply-To: <e3a36bc8-ccaa-4bf5-a005-f7c016fe1de2@googlegroups.com>
References: <e3a36bc8-ccaa-4bf5-a005-f7c016fe1de2@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRR2HwkaCgc+667sx7hxzzauVc69HBrxp6X+7xs8LmEoGw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 2:27 AM, Ashish Jain <ashishjain.ash at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a html string in an object, when I do repr() of that object, I get value as:
>
> {'Id' : 1, 'Body': u'<p> Hello </p>'}
>
> I don't wish to have 'u' as the character in my string representation. As this is not a valid json notation now.

If you want JSON, then *use the freakin' `json` std lib module*!
http://docs.python.org/library/json.html

repr(...) != JSON
[It's similar only coincidentally, and only to a degree.]

Regards,
Chris


From d at davea.name  Thu Oct 18 05:43:01 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 05:43:01 -0400
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <2a5f106f-d343-4636-9349-8b2162208bea@y5g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhqxTVZ2jLEf3Kof9XYfr_tKFugvGEMLTHdSPs2F-=W-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2387.1350532961.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<be2a9ec8-76f2-4696-8a69-159dab8514a3@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<c205400b-df0f-458d-aa78-aeb6a94e30f0@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2400.1350537450.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<2a5f106f-d343-4636-9349-8b2162208bea@y5g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <507FCF25.8010204@davea.name>

On 10/18/2012 02:19 AM, rusi wrote:
> <snip>
>
> IOW the robustness principle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle
> is as good for human networking as for computers.
>
>

The catch to that is that the software that is liberally accepting
anything is quite vulnerable to attacks.  Windows has a checksum in the
exe header that's been there since the MSDOS days, and to the best of my
knowledge has never been checked by the loader.  So even accidental file
corruption goes unnoticed.

Likewise IP and other protocol accept all sorts of retries and
fragments, and since different OS's overlay those pieces with differing
rules, it's quite common for different OS's to see different versions of
the packets after reconstruction.  So Intrusion detection software (sort
of like anti-virus) can be fooled.

Goals have changed over the years, and what was a good idea 20 years ago
is pretty painful now.

I suppose the human analogy might be the trusting people who believe any
scammer that comes along.  As for me, I'd rather be sometimes fooled
than never to trust anyone.  So, although I can argue against it, I
pretty much agree with the robustness principle.

-- 

DaveA



From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 06:01:11 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 21:01:11 +1100
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <507fc6b4$0$6861$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507fa256$0$11093$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<507fc6b4$0$6861$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrvnqap26C-fdJOGFRYYCkP_eGjw55R--yfFPbpQ8pc+w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 8:07 PM, Hans Mulder <hansmu at xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> if looks_like_it_might_be_spam(
>     some_longer_variables,
>     here_and_here, and_here_also):
>     logger.notice("might be spam")
>     move_to_spam_folder(some_longer_variables)
>     update_spam_statistics(here_and_here)
>

This wants different indentation levels for the condition and the
code. That'd make it readable enough.

ChrisA


From schesis at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 06:02:16 2012
From: schesis at gmail.com (Zero Piraeus)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 06:02:16 -0400
Subject: python scripts for web
In-Reply-To: <809c86c5-26a0-4f4a-bce7-ad8f63efa763@googlegroups.com>
References: <98b7e362-14fd-4721-84c8-ae1bc11febac@googlegroups.com>
	<CANaSqUeAJv3u4EqBymifyKZHey1YohU=O73niTpzYOvZgSV3TQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2409.1350547078.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e10b4aba-a725-46c4-aaa9-0035a099a9bf@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2412.1350549775.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<809c86c5-26a0-4f4a-bce7-ad8f63efa763@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CANaSqUd_RfO3WYJCUdNah_jVHkRGLBP61Li-wYGK5J+sPLDh3w@mail.gmail.com>

:

On 18 October 2012 05:22,  <chip9munk at gmail.com> wrote:
> So i guess in that case i do not need cgi or anything?

Assuming your scripts accept the request as sent and return an
appropriate response, they are CGI scripts (unless there's some
wrinkle in the precise definition of CGI that escapes me right now).

> Thank you for clearing that out!

No bother :-)

By the way: are you using Google Groups? It's just that I'm led to
understand that it's recently started to misbehave [more than it used
to], and your replies are addressed to both
<comp.lang.python at googlegroups.com> and <python-list at python.org>,
which is redundant.

Or perhaps it always did that, and I've never noticed before ...

 -[]z.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 06:02:58 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 21:02:58 +1100
Subject: python scripts for web
In-Reply-To: <809c86c5-26a0-4f4a-bce7-ad8f63efa763@googlegroups.com>
References: <98b7e362-14fd-4721-84c8-ae1bc11febac@googlegroups.com>
	<CANaSqUeAJv3u4EqBymifyKZHey1YohU=O73niTpzYOvZgSV3TQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2409.1350547078.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e10b4aba-a725-46c4-aaa9-0035a099a9bf@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2412.1350549775.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<809c86c5-26a0-4f4a-bce7-ad8f63efa763@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmon1v02sqjXgwFF66XWhLvb+uhYzfiMF=ys-aw2p=T6YQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 8:22 PM,  <chip9munk at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, October 18, 2012 10:42:56 AM UTC+2, Zero Piraeus wrote:
>> That is exactly what a webserver does. Is there some reason you don't
>> want to use e.g. Apache to handle the requests?
>
> no reason at all. so i guess the solution is much easier then I have anticipated.
> So i guess in that case i do not need cgi or anything?
>
> Thank you for clearing that out!

CGI is a protocol between Apache and your script. What you want to do
is set up Apache to call your CGI scripts.

BTW, you don't need to send to both comp.lang.python and python-list -
they mirror each other.

ChrisA


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 06:11:01 2012
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 11:11:01 +0100
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJXoX8xQFBUQkwsTgRF8LDeTVT9VhCsvs2peh3hMi4gQ=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<77361fb4-a59a-45b0-85e2-95472aec3716@n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2381.1350522808.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8b0ebc42-52f2-442d-aa92-12eff32b9d0e@v9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJU4fbMH5RfHGyAabes-Lqm1ieQs30ncecfsufCY=1X+3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32KhokPcMDqJc9pX2c9CUuH-259obRrEXth=v2diaiU4MmyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUsBy9S82RLkLBAJzMY1gaL=UarymoitL_KryZLk1Awvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJXaeWQHi1Rh-xrD+1LhqbYRm=e8oGByBSTJcqOhrssBdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM32Khqhg+PLwxO6tDEdVXqdnkON8bQmhu11S=0sgPADcaozAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2388.1350533105.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507f93d6$0$11093$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<CA+vVgJXoX8xQFBUQkwsTgRF8LDeTVT9VhCsvs2peh3hMi4gQ=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5okjj$h12$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/18/12 6:43 AM, David Hutto wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 1:29 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> David,
>>
>> While I acknowledge and appreciate your efforts to be less aggressive on
>> this list, I think you have crossed a line by forwarding the contents of
>> an obviously personal email containing CLEARLY PRIVATE MATTERS to a
>> public list without permission, without even anonymising it.
>>
> I get that it was a in a thread, and we;'re always told to respond
> all, unless otherwise asked, and they didn't directly ask, so I
> responded back to the list like the etiquette dictates.

I know that you have apologized for this later in the email, and I appreciate 
that, but I would like to explicitly state some of the expectations of etiquette 
for this list. I don't mean to chastise excessively.

I'm afraid that you were either misinformed, or you misinterpreted what you were 
told. When someone sends you an email that is *only addressed to you*, you 
should not forward that to the list without getting explicit permission. It is 
possible that someone just forgot to include the list, but it's also quite 
likely that they meant it only for you, particularly when it is of a more 
personal nature. Etiquette dictates that you should not assume that they meant 
to include the list. If you are in doubt, you must ask. This rule trumps others 
if you think there is a conflict in interpretation.

If you do make a private response, it is always a good idea to explicitly state 
so, but the lack of such a statement is not an excuse for the recipient to make 
the email public. The default assumption must be that they meant to send it to 
exactly those people they actually sent it to.

Thank you for listening.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 06:13:39 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 21:13:39 +1100
Subject: Change computername
In-Reply-To: <CAKhY55MWRQWQbBpv7PXEhX2f11H8AvQoeNg9JA_8F8wJ8Eqh9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKhY55NpUnZ3PdZczo2kv-DezMsz0TjWAvPST5cRZyAY30MPaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidnMxbp5vOXN7BTdTEb=swd8nLcETugvyr--ZTj7A1=cTQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKhY55MXu4Jm1aDCUSsMrAe3U2wZ260v8hs9Ek4=iKbM_v9Nyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKhY55MWRQWQbBpv7PXEhX2f11H8AvQoeNg9JA_8F8wJ8Eqh9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrGBqatCHG11AFx+GtG++YVmkJW_v7xDRA27Ba18tP7kg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Anatoli Hristov <tolidtm at gmail.com> wrote:
> It does not work the result is "0"
>
> And I don't find any documentation about it :(

Microsoft's official documentation can usually be found at the other
end of a web search. In this case:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms724931(v=vs.85).aspx

You may need to call GetLastError to find out the actual problem.

ChrisA


From ashishjain.ash at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 06:19:14 2012
From: ashishjain.ash at gmail.com (Ashish Jain)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 03:19:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Remove uncide notation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2415.1350553209.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <e3a36bc8-ccaa-4bf5-a005-f7c016fe1de2@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2415.1350553209.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <91ac0219-88d2-4df0-a5ae-6804c764b843@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, 18 October 2012 15:10:33 UTC+5:30, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 2:27 AM, Ashish Jain wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> 
> >
> 
> > I have a html string in an object, when I do repr() of that object, I get value as:
> 
> >
> 
> > {'Id' : 1, 'Body': u'<p> Hello </p>'}
> 
> >
> 
> > I don't wish to have 'u' as the character in my string representation. As this is not a valid json notation now.
> 
> 
> 
> If you want JSON, then *use the freakin' `json` std lib module*!
> 
> http://docs.python.org/library/json.html
> 
> 
> 
> repr(...) != JSON
> 
> [It's similar only coincidentally, and only to a degree.]
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Chris

Thanks a lot!!


From ashishjain.ash at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 06:19:14 2012
From: ashishjain.ash at gmail.com (Ashish Jain)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 03:19:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Remove uncide notation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2415.1350553209.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <e3a36bc8-ccaa-4bf5-a005-f7c016fe1de2@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2415.1350553209.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <91ac0219-88d2-4df0-a5ae-6804c764b843@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, 18 October 2012 15:10:33 UTC+5:30, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 2:27 AM, Ashish Jain wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> 
> >
> 
> > I have a html string in an object, when I do repr() of that object, I get value as:
> 
> >
> 
> > {'Id' : 1, 'Body': u'<p> Hello </p>'}
> 
> >
> 
> > I don't wish to have 'u' as the character in my string representation. As this is not a valid json notation now.
> 
> 
> 
> If you want JSON, then *use the freakin' `json` std lib module*!
> 
> http://docs.python.org/library/json.html
> 
> 
> 
> repr(...) != JSON
> 
> [It's similar only coincidentally, and only to a degree.]
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Chris

Thanks a lot!!


From schesis at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 06:31:50 2012
From: schesis at gmail.com (Zero Piraeus)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 06:31:50 -0400
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <507fa256$0$11093$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507fa256$0$11093$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CANaSqUe-kugqByh6qVRvHgE1edT463WnkzPWqBgfQFr1XRrMig@mail.gmail.com>

:

There seems to be a consensus [to the extent there ever is, anyway]
around using parentheses etc., then ...

On 18 October 2012 02:31, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> I've been burnt enough by word-wrapping in editors that don't handle word-
> wrapping that well that it makes me really uncomfortable to go over 78-79
> characters, even by only 1 extra. So I don't like doing this.

I have to admit, I try quite hard not to exceed 78. I don't know why
[never been bitten by badly behaved editors], but something about 79
characters in an 80-char window makes me uncomfortable.

> Just about the only time I go over is if I have a comment that includes a
> URL with more than 78 characters. I hate breaking URLs more than I hate
> breaking the 79 character limit.

Agreed.

> You missed one:
>
> 5a. Perform an assignment to a temp variable that you really should have
> done anyway, but reducing the number of characters in the line was the
> impetus that finally made you act.

Ah. Yes :-)

On 18 October 2012 05:33,  <wxjmfauth at gmail.com> wrote:
> I use a "double indentation".
>
>>>> if 'asdf' and 'asdf' and 'asdf' \
> ...         'asdf' and 'asdf' and \
> ...         'asdf' and 'asdf':
> ...     print('do if')
> ...     s = 'asdf'
> ...     ss = 'asdf'

Actually, I had a follow-up question about indentation planned. I used
to double-indent, but am now more likely to go with e.g.

>>> if check_something(
...     arg1,
...     arg2,
...     arg3
... ):
...     do_something()

as others have suggested. An alternative would be something like

>>> if check_something(arg1,
...                    arg2,
...                    arg3):
...     do_something()

which I like much less. I have to admit, though, that all the original
options make me feel a little dirty except (#4) "shorter variable
names" [which just makes me feel that I am being overly precious] and
(#6 generalised) "this needs refactoring" [which I would say includes
Steven's #5a].

 -[]z.


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Oct 18 07:05:34 2012
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 06:05:34 -0500
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <bf646126-e170-4548-b0a1-de2e0444f71c@googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>	<507fa256$0$11093$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<507fc6b4$0$6861$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
	<bf646126-e170-4548-b0a1-de2e0444f71c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <507FE27E.6080204@tim.thechases.com>

On 10/18/12 04:33, wxjmfauth at gmail.com wrote:
> I use a "double indentation".
> 
>>>> if 'asdf' and 'asdf' and 'asdf' \
> ...         'asdf' and 'asdf' and \
> ...         'asdf' and 'asdf':
> ...     print('do if')
> ...     s = 'asdf'
> ...     ss = 'asdf'
> ...     
> do if
>>>> if looks_like_it_might_be_spam(
> ...         some_longer_variables,
> ...         here_and_here, and_here_also):
> ...     logger.notice("might be spam")
> ...     move_to_spam_folder(some_longer_variables)
> ...     update_spam_statistics(here_and_here)

I lean towards double-indent as well, though I favor parens/brackets
vs. trailing backslashes.  My conditions usually go one-per-line,
too.  I also tend to put my closing paren+colon on a stand-alone line:

    if (
            something
            or something_else
            or yet_other_stuff
            ):
        do_thing1()
        do_thing2()

It's not quite as nice with pure parens, working better with
function-calls.  However, it makes my git/svn diffs easier to read
when conditions get added/removed because only that line (usually)
changes, rather than having the noise of the paren moving around.

In 2.5 and later, I like to write that as

    if any([
            something,
            something_else,
            yet_other_stuff,
            ]):
        do_thing1()
        do_thing2()

where each item is uniform (one trailing comma, rather than one item
being special without a comma/or/and) so I don't have the diff noise
for "or"/"and" bouncing around either.

Making my diffs easy to read is pretty important to me.

-tkc

PS: and in such cases, yes, I often alphabetize my conditions too as
long as the order doesn't matter.  Just a little CDO.  That's OCD,
but in alphabetical order the way the letters should be :-)








From lars at rational-it.com  Thu Oct 18 07:41:27 2012
From: lars at rational-it.com (lars van gemerden)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 04:41:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: use of exec()
Message-ID: <2f12fa83-54cc-4fc2-85e4-b8aebebf4242@googlegroups.com>

I am trying to implement a way to let users give a limited possibility to define functions in text, that wille be stored and executed at a later time. I use exec() to transform the text to a function. The code is as follows:

class code(str):
    def __call__(self, *args):
        try:
            return self._func_(*args)
        except AttributeError:
            self._func_ = self._creat_func_()
            return self._func_(*args)
    def __getstate__(self):
        return {}

class _lambdacode(code):
    def _creat_func_(self):
        return eval("lambda %s: %s" % (", ".join(type(self).args), self),{},{})
    
class _functioncode(code):
    def _creat_func_(self):
        exec("def function(%s):\n\t%s" % (", ".join(type(self).args), 
                                          "\n\t".join(self.split('\n'))))
        return function

def lambdatype(*argnames):
    return type('lambdacode', (_lambdacode,),{'args': argnames}) 

def functiontype(*argnames):
    return type('functioncode', (_functioncode,),{'args': argnames})
    
if __name__ == '__main__':
    f = lambdatype('a', 'b')('a ** b')
    print f
    print f(3, 4)
    print f(4, 3)
    
    g = functiontype('a', 'b')('a, b = a/b, a*b\nreturn a ** b')
    print g
    print g(3.0, 4.0) 
    print g(4.0, 3.0)

This code works. But if I replace _functioncode with:

class _functioncode(code):
    def _creat_func_(self):
        exec("def function(%s):\n\t%s" % (", ".join(type(self).args), 
                                          "\n\t".join(self.split('\n'))),{})
        return function

or

class _functioncode(code):
    def _creat_func_(self):
        exec("def function(%s):\n\t%s" % (", ".join(type(self).args), 
                                          "\n\t".join(self.split('\n'))),{},{})
        return function

to restrict access to global variables, similar to the lambda version, i get the error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "D:\Documents\Code\Eclipse\workspace\FlowWare_1\toolshed\tests\mini_test.py", line 41, in <module>
    print g(3.0, 4.0)
  File "D:\Documents\Code\Eclipse\workspace\FlowWare_1\toolshed\tests\mini_test.py", line 13, in __call__
    self._func_ = self._creat_func_()
  File "D:\Documents\Code\Eclipse\workspace\FlowWare_1\toolshed\tests\mini_test.py", line 25, in _creat_func_
    return function
NameError: name 'function' is not defined

which seems an odd error, but i think some global variable is necessary for this to work (if i put in globals() instead of {}, it works).

My question is which variable or if that is not the problem, what is and how can i restrict access the user code has.

Cheers, Lars


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 07:49:31 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 22:49:31 +1100
Subject: use of exec()
In-Reply-To: <2f12fa83-54cc-4fc2-85e4-b8aebebf4242@googlegroups.com>
References: <2f12fa83-54cc-4fc2-85e4-b8aebebf4242@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoiBh6-W6bNZ7BWHnjys6J0YQNvX979hC+ALe4NyYNtFA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 10:41 PM, lars van gemerden
<lars at rational-it.com> wrote:
> NameError: name 'function' is not defined
>
> which seems an odd error, but i think some global variable is necessary for this to work (if i put in globals() instead of {}, it works).

The def statement simply adds a name to the current namespace. This
should work (untested):

class _functioncode(code):
    def _creat_func_(self):
        ns={}
        exec("def function(%s):\n\t%s" % (", ".join(type(self).args),
                                          "\n\t".join(self.split('\n'))),ns,ns)
        return ns.function

But it's going to be eternally plagued by security issues. You may
want, instead, to look at literal_eval from the ast module; but that
won't work if you need anything other than, as the name suggests,
literals.

ChrisA


From andriy.kornatskyy at live.com  Thu Oct 18 08:47:33 2012
From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com (Andriy Kornatskyy)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 15:47:33 +0300
Subject: Python Web Frameworks PEP8 Consistency
Message-ID: <DUB117-W26640460A4B2411E4C536E91760@phx.gbl>


The code is read much more often than it is written. The PEP8 guidelines are intended to improve the readability of code. We will take a look at web frameworks source code readability (bottle,?cherrypy,?circuits,?django,?flask,?pyramid,?tornado,?web.py,?web2py and?wheezy.web):

http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/10/python-web-pep8-consistency.html

The ratio between a web framework total python source lines to PEP8 errors found represents PEP8 error rate in respectful framework.

Readability counts, no doubt, but readability consistency is important, it is equally important to know when to be inconsistent. The report makes excuse for the following:

E501 line too long (> 79 characters)
E231 missing whitespace after ',:'
W291 trailing whitespace
W293 blank line contains whitespace

Comments or suggestions are welcome.

Thanks.

Andriy Kornatskyy
 		 	   		  

From jiangwen365 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 08:47:40 2012
From: jiangwen365 at gmail.com (=?GB2312?B?va3OxA==?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 20:47:40 +0800
Subject: [ANN] PyPyODBC 0.8.7 released
Message-ID: <CAPGnA=9r12RHyJWCn973ZaYmvX-v1iQNF4apSE6-zGuVnHrtrA@mail.gmail.com>

PyPyODBC - A Pure Python ctypes ODBC module

Features
    -    Pure Python, compatible with IronPython and PyPy (tested on Win32)
    -    Almost totally same usage as pyodbc
    -    Simple and small - the whole module is implemented in a less
than 2000 lines python script

You can simply try pypyodbc in your existing pyodbc powered script
with the following changes:

#import pyodbc             <-- The original pyodbc importing line
import pypyodbc as pyodbc
pyodbc.connect(...)      # pypyodbc is now doing pyodbc's job



Homepage:        http://code.google.com/p/pypyodbc/

History

Version 0.8.7 Oct 18 2012
    Added output converter function;
    Fix result description;
    Cursor iteration protocol;
    Accept connection string in parameters format;

Version 0.8.6 Sep 23 2012
    Added ODBC pooling feature
    Bit, GUID type support
    Other fixes and improvements

Version 0.8.5 Sep 16 2012
    Numeric type fix
    Long and integer differentiate
    Other pyodbc compatibility improvements;

Version 0.8.4 Sep 9 2012 Improved compatibility with pyodbc; Many
underlying bug fixes;

Version 0.8.3 Sep 1 2012 sql_longvarchar handling fix; performance optimization;

Version 0.8.2 Aug 27 2012 Differentiate sql_varchar and
sql_longvarchar; Initial support for SQLAlchemy;

Version 0.8.1 Aug 26 2012 Fixed the long type parameter issue; Added
support for IronPython;

Version 0.8 Aug 25 2012 Added getinfo method;

Version 0.7 Jul 28 2012 Fixed nchar/ntext/nvarchar string truncat problem ;

Version 0.6 Jul 4 2012 Added Cursor.commit() and Cursor.rollback();
Added readonly keyword to connect;

Version 0.5 Jun 23 2012 Initial release;


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 09:05:58 2012
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (andrea crotti)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 14:05:58 +0100
Subject: Watching output and put back in background
Message-ID: <CAF_E5JZi-C_Cf-dpqvPeMkgw+XgJ5N+eDD6Yk=A8K1pAHwR2Qw@mail.gmail.com>

In one process I need to run many quite weird shell commands that take a
long time, possibly in parallel.

Now the problem is that I need to catpure the initial standard error of
the command and then I can go on with the second one, but how can I do
that?

It should be something like

Popen(long_command..)

- first line output
- second line
- interesting line

.. more things ..

But if I just do

out, err = proc.communicate()

it will hang there until the end, right?

Maybe a solution would be to redirect the stderr to file and watch that
instead..

Or otherwise I could use a thread for each shell command, but I would
like to avoid head-aches with possible race-conditions..

Ideas?


From rmorgan466 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 09:08:32 2012
From: rmorgan466 at gmail.com (Rita)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 09:08:32 -0400
Subject: unittest for system testing
In-Reply-To: <507fa7ce$0$11093$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CAOF-KfiPdM_H+Nge_HFK6aBmoWKBkDM2HUeCk1D=df2z3+5fYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2378.1350521374.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507fa7ce$0$11093$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAOF-KfhRX90FMhj1VZeWA2MqcyoXp3swGVMBBo9d+5Kcv_hTZQ@mail.gmail.com>

thanks for the responses.


I run the application ever few weeks or so...its currently setup like this


#!/usr/bin/env bash

function testAfile() {
  ..
  ..
  return 0
}

then if all tests are OK then I do
exec program "$@"

Unittest is for code it seems but I though I could bolt it on for system
testing also :p





On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 2:55 AM, Steven D'Aprano <
steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:

> Sorry for breaking threading, but the original post has not come through
> to me.
>
> > On 18/10/2012 01:22, Rita wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Currently, I use a shell script to test how my system behaves before I
> > deploy an application. For instance, I check if fileA, fileB, and fileC
> > exist and if they do I go and start up my application.
>
> Do you run the shell script once, before installing the application, or
> every time the application launches?
>
> Do you realise that this is vulnerable to race conditions? E.g:
>
> Time = 10am exactly: shell script runs, fileA etc exist;
>
> Time = 10am and 1 millisecond: another process deletes fileA etc;
>
> Time = 10am and 2 milliseconds: application launches, cannot find
>        fileA etc and crashes.
>
>
> Depending on what your application does, this could be a security hole.
>
> Regardless of what the shell script reports, to be robust your Python
> application needs to protect against the case that fileA etc are missing.
> Even if all it does is report an error, save the user's work and exit.
>
>
> > This works great BUT
> >
> > I would like to use python and in particular unittest module to test my
> > system and then deploy my app. I understand unittest is for functional
> > testing but I think this too would be a case for it. Any thoughts? I am
> > not looking for code in particular but just some ideas on how to use
> > python better in situations like this.
>
> Well, you *could* use unittest, but frankly I think that's a case of
> using a hammer to nail in screws. Unittest is awesome for what it does.
> It's not so well suited for this.
>
> Compare these two pieces of code (untested, so they probably won't work
> exactly as given):
>
> # sample 1
> import os
> import sys
> for name in ['fileA', 'fileB', 'fileC']:
>     if not os.path.exists(name):
>         print('missing essential file %s' % name)
>         sys.exit(1)
>
> run_application()
>
>
>
> # sample 2
> import os
> import sys
> import unittest
>
> class PreRunTest(unittest.TestCase):
>     list_of_files = ['fileA', 'fileB', 'fileC']
>     def testFilesExist(self):
>         for name in self.list_of_files:
>             assertTrue(os.path.exists(name)
>
> total_tests, failed_tests = unittest.testmod()  # I think...
>
> if failed_tests != 0:
>     sys.exit(1)
>
> run_application()
>
>
>
> I think the first sample is much to be preferred, and not just because it
> is a couple of lines shorter. There's less magic involved.
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
--- Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.--
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From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 09:14:02 2012
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (andrea crotti)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 14:14:02 +0100
Subject: locking files on Linux
Message-ID: <CAF_E5JYZDAyu4OOYY6iXU8e8TFw5ZKZanrNz7d3FckozOSvfbA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to understand how I can lock a file while writing on it,
because I might have multiple processes working on it at the same time.

I found the fcntl.lockf function but if I do this:

In [109]: locked = open('locked.txt', 'w')

In [110]: fcntl.lockf(locked, fcntl.LOCK_EX)

I can happily open the file with vim from somewhere and write on it, so
it doesn't seem to be very useful, or am I missing something?

I can otherwise use the classic ".lock" file when working on it, but I
would be glad to see a smarter solution (should only work on Linux)..


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Thu Oct 18 09:16:05 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 13:16:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k5ovel$3t8$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-18, Zero Piraeus <schesis at gmail.com> wrote:

> What are people's preferred strategies for dealing with lines that go
> over 79 characters? A few I can think of off the bat:

I try to do what's easiest to read and understand.  Sometimes that
means using a line thats 120 characters long, sometimes that means
breaking up the line.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Am I in GRADUATE
                                  at               SCHOOL yet?
                              gmail.com            


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Thu Oct 18 09:27:27 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 13:27:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: locking files on Linux
References: <mailman.2430.1350566044.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k5p03u$3t8$2@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-18, andrea crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to understand how I can lock a file while writing on it,
> because I might have multiple processes working on it at the same time.
>
> I found the fcntl.lockf function but if I do this:
>
> In [109]: locked = open('locked.txt', 'w')
>
> In [110]: fcntl.lockf(locked, fcntl.LOCK_EX)
>
> I can happily open the file with vim from somewhere and write on it, so
> it doesn't seem to be very useful, or am I missing something?

File locks under Unix have historically been "advisory".  That means
that programs have to _choose_ to pay attention to them.  Most
programs do not.

Linux does support mandatory locking, but it's rarely used and must be
manually enabled at the filesystem level. It's probably worth noting
that in the Linux kernel docs, the document on mandatory file locking
begins with a section titled "Why you should avoid mandatory locking".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_locking#In_Unix-like_systems
http://kernel.org/doc/Documentation/filesystems/locks.txt
http://kernel.org/doc/Documentation/filesystems/mandatory-locking.txt
http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2012/04/linux-file-locking-types/
http://www.hackinglinuxexposed.com/articles/20030623.html

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Your CHEEKS sit like
                                  at               twin NECTARINES above
                              gmail.com            a MOUTH that knows no
                                                   BOUNDS --


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 09:44:27 2012
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (andrea crotti)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 14:44:27 +0100
Subject: locking files on Linux
In-Reply-To: <k5p03u$3t8$2@reader1.panix.com>
References: <mailman.2430.1350566044.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5p03u$3t8$2@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <CAF_E5Jbng4f=23NiVBvod99G8c=saFY+q2cPfR24KHLim1qaew@mail.gmail.com>

2012/10/18 Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid>:
> On 2012-10-18, andrea crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> File locks under Unix have historically been "advisory".  That means
> that programs have to _choose_ to pay attention to them.  Most
> programs do not.
>
> Linux does support mandatory locking, but it's rarely used and must be
> manually enabled at the filesystem level. It's probably worth noting
> that in the Linux kernel docs, the document on mandatory file locking
> begins with a section titled "Why you should avoid mandatory locking".
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_locking#In_Unix-like_systems
> http://kernel.org/doc/Documentation/filesystems/locks.txt
> http://kernel.org/doc/Documentation/filesystems/mandatory-locking.txt
> http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2012/04/linux-file-locking-types/
> http://www.hackinglinuxexposed.com/articles/20030623.html
>
> --
> Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Your CHEEKS sit like
>                                   at               twin NECTARINES above
>                               gmail.com            a MOUTH that knows no
>                                                    BOUNDS --
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Uhh I see thanks, I guess I'll use the good-old .lock file (even if it
might have some problems too).

Anyway I'm only afraid that my same application could modify the
files, so maybe I can instruct it to check if the file is locked.

Or maybe using sqlite would work even if writing from different
processes?

I would prefer to keep something human readable as INI-format though,
rather then a sqlite file..

Thanks


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Thu Oct 18 09:57:04 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 13:57:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: locking files on Linux
References: <mailman.2430.1350566044.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5p03u$3t8$2@reader1.panix.com>
	<mailman.2431.1350567869.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k5p1rg$et4$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-18, andrea crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2012/10/18 Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid>:
>> On 2012-10-18, andrea crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> File locks under Unix have historically been "advisory".  That means
>> that programs have to _choose_ to pay attention to them.  Most
>> programs do not.
>>
>> Linux does support mandatory locking, but it's rarely used and must be
>> manually enabled at the filesystem level. It's probably worth noting
>> that in the Linux kernel docs, the document on mandatory file locking
>> begins with a section titled "Why you should avoid mandatory locking".
>
> Uhh I see thanks, I guess I'll use the good-old .lock file (even if
> it might have some problems too).
>
> Anyway I'm only afraid that my same application could modify the
> files, so maybe I can instruct it to check if the file is locked.

If what you're guarding against is multiple instances of your
application modifying the file, then either of the advisory file
locking schemes or the separate lock file should work fine.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! All this time I've
                                  at               been VIEWING a RUSSIAN
                              gmail.com            MIDGET SODOMIZE a HOUSECAT!


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 09:58:48 2012
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 14:58:48 +0100
Subject: locking files on Linux
In-Reply-To: <CAF_E5Jbng4f=23NiVBvod99G8c=saFY+q2cPfR24KHLim1qaew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2430.1350566044.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5p03u$3t8$2@reader1.panix.com>
	<CAF_E5Jbng4f=23NiVBvod99G8c=saFY+q2cPfR24KHLim1qaew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxQf+0V+ms=BEUd+_9Ax1EwkTajnLPoQkwws6+pn5xKL8A@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 October 2012 14:44, andrea crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2012/10/18 Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid>:
>> On 2012-10-18, andrea crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> File locks under Unix have historically been "advisory".  That means
>> that programs have to _choose_ to pay attention to them.  Most
>> programs do not.
>>
>> Linux does support mandatory locking, but it's rarely used and must be
>> manually enabled at the filesystem level. It's probably worth noting
>> that in the Linux kernel docs, the document on mandatory file locking
>> begins with a section titled "Why you should avoid mandatory locking".
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_locking#In_Unix-like_systems
>> http://kernel.org/doc/Documentation/filesystems/locks.txt
>> http://kernel.org/doc/Documentation/filesystems/mandatory-locking.txt
>> http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2012/04/linux-file-locking-types/
>> http://www.hackinglinuxexposed.com/articles/20030623.html
>>
>> --
>> Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Your CHEEKS sit like
>>                                   at               twin NECTARINES above
>>                               gmail.com            a MOUTH that knows no
>>                                                    BOUNDS --
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> Uhh I see thanks, I guess I'll use the good-old .lock file (even if it
> might have some problems too).

I think you've misunderstood what Grant meant.

>
> Anyway I'm only afraid that my same application could modify the
> files, so maybe I can instruct it to check if the file is locked.

In that case fcntl will work for you. The point is that fcntl only
locks the file if all of the applications accessing the file use
fcntl. Any other application such as vim can simply ignore the fcntl
lock. Have a read of the links that Grant posted.

Did you try writing twice from the same application that uses fcntl?

> Or maybe using sqlite would work even if writing from different
> processes?

That would also work.


Oscar


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Oct 18 09:59:18 2012
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 15:59:18 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <k5ovel$3t8$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <153569467.1651735.1350568758155.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>

----- Original Message -----
> On 2012-10-18, Zero Piraeus <schesis at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > What are people's preferred strategies for dealing with lines that
> > go
> > over 79 characters? A few I can think of off the bat:
> 
> I try to do what's easiest to read and understand.  Sometimes that
> means using a line thats 120 characters long, sometimes that means
> breaking up the line.
>

Imo, def. a good approach to the problem. Mark's also pointed the fact that the guidelines themselves state that rules are made to be broken when they need to be.
The 79 char limit purpose is to allow someone to read the code on a 80 char terminal (and allow old printers to print the code). If following this rules breaks readability for all other terminals, meaning 99,99% of them, you know what to do.

JM



From lars at rational-it.com  Thu Oct 18 10:07:30 2012
From: lars at rational-it.com (lars van gemerden)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 07:07:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: use of exec()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2425.1350560975.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <2f12fa83-54cc-4fc2-85e4-b8aebebf4242@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2425.1350560975.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <05702a47-ff6b-4589-8352-d21b1921e77e@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 1:49:35 PM UTC+2, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 10:41 PM, lars van gemerden
> 
> <lars at rational-it.com> wrote:
> 
> > NameError: name 'function' is not defined
> 
> >
> 
> > which seems an odd error, but i think some global variable is necessary for this to work (if i put in globals() instead of {}, it works).
> 
> 
> 
> The def statement simply adds a name to the current namespace. This
> 
> should work (untested):
> 
> 
> 
> class _functioncode(code):
> 
>     def _creat_func_(self):
> 
>         ns={}
> 
>         exec("def function(%s):\n\t%s" % (", ".join(type(self).args),
> 
>                                           "\n\t".join(self.split('\n'))),ns,ns)
> 
>         return ns.function
> 
> 
> 
> But it's going to be eternally plagued by security issues. You may
> 
> want, instead, to look at literal_eval from the ast module; but that
> 
> won't work if you need anything other than, as the name suggests,
> 
> literals.
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisA

Thanks, Chris,

That works like a charm (after replacig "return ns.function" with "return ns['function']" ;-) ).

About the security, i noticed you can still import and use modules within the exec'ed code. Is there a way to prevent this or otherwise make this approach more secure.

I should say that the users that will be able to make custom functions, are not end-users, but authenticated designers, however i would like to close a backdoor to the whole framework.

Cheers, Lars 





From lars at rational-it.com  Thu Oct 18 10:07:30 2012
From: lars at rational-it.com (lars van gemerden)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 07:07:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: use of exec()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2425.1350560975.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <2f12fa83-54cc-4fc2-85e4-b8aebebf4242@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2425.1350560975.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <05702a47-ff6b-4589-8352-d21b1921e77e@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 1:49:35 PM UTC+2, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 10:41 PM, lars van gemerden
> 
> <lars at rational-it.com> wrote:
> 
> > NameError: name 'function' is not defined
> 
> >
> 
> > which seems an odd error, but i think some global variable is necessary for this to work (if i put in globals() instead of {}, it works).
> 
> 
> 
> The def statement simply adds a name to the current namespace. This
> 
> should work (untested):
> 
> 
> 
> class _functioncode(code):
> 
>     def _creat_func_(self):
> 
>         ns={}
> 
>         exec("def function(%s):\n\t%s" % (", ".join(type(self).args),
> 
>                                           "\n\t".join(self.split('\n'))),ns,ns)
> 
>         return ns.function
> 
> 
> 
> But it's going to be eternally plagued by security issues. You may
> 
> want, instead, to look at literal_eval from the ast module; but that
> 
> won't work if you need anything other than, as the name suggests,
> 
> literals.
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisA

Thanks, Chris,

That works like a charm (after replacig "return ns.function" with "return ns['function']" ;-) ).

About the security, i noticed you can still import and use modules within the exec'ed code. Is there a way to prevent this or otherwise make this approach more secure.

I should say that the users that will be able to make custom functions, are not end-users, but authenticated designers, however i would like to close a backdoor to the whole framework.

Cheers, Lars 





From jeff.jeffries.iii at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 10:10:23 2012
From: jeff.jeffries.iii at gmail.com (Jeff Jeffries)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 10:10:23 -0400
Subject: Inheritance Question
Message-ID: <CANNB2xtaLMC49Y=xKoJn_7jNEJixzUsQZa019wZZw+d64cf3rg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everybody

When I set "AttributeChanges" in my example, it sets the same value for all
other subclasses. Can someone help me with what the name of this behavior
is (mutable class global?) ? .... I don't know any keywords... having
trouble googling it

Thanks in advance,

--
Cheers,
Jeff Jeffries III
CEO: http://www.willyoubemyfriend.com
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 10:29:35 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 01:29:35 +1100
Subject: use of exec()
In-Reply-To: <05702a47-ff6b-4589-8352-d21b1921e77e@googlegroups.com>
References: <2f12fa83-54cc-4fc2-85e4-b8aebebf4242@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2425.1350560975.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<05702a47-ff6b-4589-8352-d21b1921e77e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp_rM_ALUzG8o_1yW+Y+JVGNfnrM5zYoEUFFAz6xQomMQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 1:07 AM, lars van gemerden <lars at rational-it.com> wrote:
> Thanks, Chris,
>
> That works like a charm (after replacig "return ns.function" with "return ns['function']" ;-) ).

Err, yes, I forget sometimes that Python doesn't do that. JavaScript
and Pike both let you (though Pike uses -> instead of . for that
operator). Yes, Python has real methods on dictionary objects :)

> About the security, i noticed you can still import and use modules within the exec'ed code. Is there a way to prevent this or otherwise make this approach more secure.

Basically no, there's no real way to make it secure. Without
eliminating exec/eval, destroying insecurity is the hopeless work of a
wasted life, as the oracle said to Alice.

> I should say that the users that will be able to make custom functions, are not end-users, but authenticated designers, however i would like to close a backdoor to the whole framework.

You have to decide one thing: Will you permit them to execute
untrusted code on your system? If so, go ahead (and just warn them
that things like import shouldn't be done, as they can cause other
messes). I run a server that I build with the help of another guy (I
do the code, he does the bulk of the content - descriptions and
stuff), and I'm happy to trust him to not be malicious, so the purpose
of "embedded code in loci" is to make it easier to write tiny bits of
code, without any security requirement. But if you need security,
don't use eval. AT ALL.

There may be a brand new service coming along, though. The ast module
I think is getting a new evaluator that allows a little more
functionality than literal_eval, while still not permitting most
things. But you then have the question of performance, since you
effectively interpret the code at a high level.

ChrisA


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 10:31:36 2012
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 15:31:36 +0100
Subject: Inheritance Question
In-Reply-To: <CANNB2xtaLMC49Y=xKoJn_7jNEJixzUsQZa019wZZw+d64cf3rg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANNB2xtaLMC49Y=xKoJn_7jNEJixzUsQZa019wZZw+d64cf3rg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxSUPFjT9A287RU7svJvqy6FvYmouTaRN=dcRFvoaxmZ4g@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 October 2012 15:10, Jeff Jeffries <jeff.jeffries.iii at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everybody
>
> When I set "AttributeChanges" in my example, it sets the same value for all
> other subclasses. Can someone help me with what the name of this behavior is
> (mutable class global?) ? .... I don't know any keywords... having trouble
> googling it
>
> Thanks in advance,

The code you attached is not so big that it can't just go in the
email. Here it is:

"""
class ABMixin:
    AttributeChanges = [1]
    AttributeDontChangeImmutable = 1
    def __init__(self):
        self.AttributeDontChange = [1]

class A(object,ABMixin):
    def __init__(self):
        ABMixin.__init__(self)

class B(object,ABMixin):
    def __init__(self):
        ABMixin.__init__(self)

a = A()
b = B()

print a.AttributeChanges,a.AttributeDontChange,a.AttributeDontChangeImmutable
print b.AttributeChanges,b.AttributeDontChange,b.AttributeDontChangeImmutable

a.AttributeChanges[0] = 2
a.AttributeDontChange[0] = 2
a.AttributeDontChangeImmutable = 2

print a.AttributeChanges,a.AttributeDontChange,a.AttributeDontChangeImmutable
print b.AttributeChanges,b.AttributeDontChange,b.AttributeDontChangeImmutable
"""

AttributeChanges is a "class attribute". This is the Python equivalent
of what would be a "static class member" in some other languages.


Oscar


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 10:49:02 2012
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (andrea crotti)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 15:49:02 +0100
Subject: locking files on Linux
In-Reply-To: <k5p1rg$et4$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <mailman.2430.1350566044.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5p03u$3t8$2@reader1.panix.com>
	<mailman.2431.1350567869.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5p1rg$et4$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <CAF_E5Jb9javdypCvPpVGkq+zPLmt-autD=bu+Z-uDrghhGneog@mail.gmail.com>

2012/10/18 Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid>:
>
> If what you're guarding against is multiple instances of your
> application modifying the file, then either of the advisory file
> locking schemes or the separate lock file should work fine.
>
> --
> Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! All this time I've
>                                   at               been VIEWING a RUSSIAN
>                               gmail.com            MIDGET SODOMIZE a HOUSECAT!
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Ok so I tried a small example to see if I can make it fail, but this
below just works perfectly fine.

Maybe it's too fast and it release the file in time, but I would
expect it to take some time and fail instead..

import fcntl

from multiprocessing import Process

FILENAME = 'file.txt'


def long_text():
    return ('some text' * (100 * 100))


class Locked:
    def __init__(self, fileobj):
        self.fileobj = fileobj

    def __enter__(self):
        # any problems here?
        fcntl.lockf(self.fileobj, fcntl.LOCK_EX)
        return self.fileobj

    def __exit__(self, type, value, traceback):
        fcntl.lockf(self.fileobj, fcntl.LOCK_UN)


def write_to_file():
    with open(FILENAME, 'w') as to_lock:
        with Locked(to_lock):
            to_lock.write(long_text())


if __name__ == '__main__':
    Process(target=write_to_file).start()
    Process(target=write_to_file).start()


From d at davea.name  Thu Oct 18 10:51:55 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 10:51:55 -0400
Subject: Inheritance Question
In-Reply-To: <CANNB2xtaLMC49Y=xKoJn_7jNEJixzUsQZa019wZZw+d64cf3rg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANNB2xtaLMC49Y=xKoJn_7jNEJixzUsQZa019wZZw+d64cf3rg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5080178B.6090103@davea.name>

On 10/18/2012 10:10 AM, Jeff Jeffries wrote:
> Hello everybody
>
> When I set "AttributeChanges" in my example, it sets the same value for all
> other subclasses. Can someone help me with what the name of this behavior
> is (mutable class global?) ? .... I don't know any keywords... having
> trouble googling it
>

I can't understand your code or what you're trying to do with it, but
maybe i can help anyway.  Incidentally, putting code in an attachment
will hide it from many users of this mailing list.  Just paste it inline
in your message, and make sure your message is composed as text, not html.


Attributes can be attached to the class or to the instance.  Those
attached to the class are shared among all instances that don't hide
them by having instance attributes of the same name.

Any attribute bound in an instance method is specific to that instance. 
Attributes bound in the class itself belong to the class.

class MyClass:
    classAttr1 = 42           #this is a class attribute
    classAttr2 = "will be masked"   #also this
    def __init__(self):
        self.instance_attr = "each instance gets its own"
        self.classAttr2 = "this makes an instance attribute of the same
name"

    def test(self):
        print self.classAttr1    #prints 42
        print self.classAttr2   #prints    this makes an ...
        print MyClass.classAttr2  #prints    will be masked

a = MyClass()
a.test()




-- 

DaveA



From lars at rational-it.com  Thu Oct 18 11:00:03 2012
From: lars at rational-it.com (lars van gemerden)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:00:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: use of exec()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2438.1350570579.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <2f12fa83-54cc-4fc2-85e4-b8aebebf4242@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2425.1350560975.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<05702a47-ff6b-4589-8352-d21b1921e77e@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2438.1350570579.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2e5df7eb-7781-4c32-a9a7-088be940a4d3@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 4:29:45 PM UTC+2, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 1:07 AM, lars van gemerden <lars at rational-it.com> wrote:
> 
> > Thanks, Chris,
> 
> >
> 
> > That works like a charm (after replacig "return ns.function" with "return ns['function']" ;-) ).
> 
> 
> 
> Err, yes, I forget sometimes that Python doesn't do that. JavaScript
> 
> and Pike both let you (though Pike uses -> instead of . for that
> 
> operator). Yes, Python has real methods on dictionary objects :)
> 
> 
> 
> > About the security, i noticed you can still import and use modules within the exec'ed code. Is there a way to prevent this or otherwise make this approach more secure.
> 
> 
> 
> Basically no, there's no real way to make it secure. Without
> 
> eliminating exec/eval, destroying insecurity is the hopeless work of a
> 
> wasted life, as the oracle said to Alice.
> 
> 
> 
> > I should say that the users that will be able to make custom functions, are not end-users, but authenticated designers, however i would like to close a backdoor to the whole framework.
> 
> 
> 
> You have to decide one thing: Will you permit them to execute
> 
> untrusted code on your system? If so, go ahead (and just warn them
> 
> that things like import shouldn't be done, as they can cause other
> 
> messes). I run a server that I build with the help of another guy (I
> 
> do the code, he does the bulk of the content - descriptions and
> 
> stuff), and I'm happy to trust him to not be malicious, so the purpose
> 
> of "embedded code in loci" is to make it easier to write tiny bits of
> 
> code, without any security requirement. But if you need security,
> 
> don't use eval. AT ALL.
> 
> 
> 
> There may be a brand new service coming along, though. The ast module
> 
> I think is getting a new evaluator that allows a little more
> 
> functionality than literal_eval, while still not permitting most
> 
> things. But you then have the question of performance, since you
> 
> effectively interpret the code at a high level.
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisA

I get your point, since in this case having the custom code option makes the system a whole lot less complex and flexible, i will leave the option in. The future customer will be informed that they should handle the security around the designers as if they were programmers. Aditionally i will probably add some screening for unwanted keywords (like 'import') and securely log any new/changed custom code including the designer account (must do that for other actions anyway).

Thanks again, Lars


From lars at rational-it.com  Thu Oct 18 11:00:03 2012
From: lars at rational-it.com (lars van gemerden)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:00:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: use of exec()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2438.1350570579.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <2f12fa83-54cc-4fc2-85e4-b8aebebf4242@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2425.1350560975.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<05702a47-ff6b-4589-8352-d21b1921e77e@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2438.1350570579.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2e5df7eb-7781-4c32-a9a7-088be940a4d3@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 4:29:45 PM UTC+2, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 1:07 AM, lars van gemerden <lars at rational-it.com> wrote:
> 
> > Thanks, Chris,
> 
> >
> 
> > That works like a charm (after replacig "return ns.function" with "return ns['function']" ;-) ).
> 
> 
> 
> Err, yes, I forget sometimes that Python doesn't do that. JavaScript
> 
> and Pike both let you (though Pike uses -> instead of . for that
> 
> operator). Yes, Python has real methods on dictionary objects :)
> 
> 
> 
> > About the security, i noticed you can still import and use modules within the exec'ed code. Is there a way to prevent this or otherwise make this approach more secure.
> 
> 
> 
> Basically no, there's no real way to make it secure. Without
> 
> eliminating exec/eval, destroying insecurity is the hopeless work of a
> 
> wasted life, as the oracle said to Alice.
> 
> 
> 
> > I should say that the users that will be able to make custom functions, are not end-users, but authenticated designers, however i would like to close a backdoor to the whole framework.
> 
> 
> 
> You have to decide one thing: Will you permit them to execute
> 
> untrusted code on your system? If so, go ahead (and just warn them
> 
> that things like import shouldn't be done, as they can cause other
> 
> messes). I run a server that I build with the help of another guy (I
> 
> do the code, he does the bulk of the content - descriptions and
> 
> stuff), and I'm happy to trust him to not be malicious, so the purpose
> 
> of "embedded code in loci" is to make it easier to write tiny bits of
> 
> code, without any security requirement. But if you need security,
> 
> don't use eval. AT ALL.
> 
> 
> 
> There may be a brand new service coming along, though. The ast module
> 
> I think is getting a new evaluator that allows a little more
> 
> functionality than literal_eval, while still not permitting most
> 
> things. But you then have the question of performance, since you
> 
> effectively interpret the code at a high level.
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisA

I get your point, since in this case having the custom code option makes the system a whole lot less complex and flexible, i will leave the option in. The future customer will be informed that they should handle the security around the designers as if they were programmers. Aditionally i will probably add some screening for unwanted keywords (like 'import') and securely log any new/changed custom code including the designer account (must do that for other actions anyway).

Thanks again, Lars


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 11:04:43 2012
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 16:04:43 +0100
Subject: locking files on Linux
In-Reply-To: <CAF_E5Jb9javdypCvPpVGkq+zPLmt-autD=bu+Z-uDrghhGneog@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2430.1350566044.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5p03u$3t8$2@reader1.panix.com>
	<mailman.2431.1350567869.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5p1rg$et4$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<CAF_E5Jb9javdypCvPpVGkq+zPLmt-autD=bu+Z-uDrghhGneog@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxTCE8d_RoKgiT2S1XgMpUNPpd5gMHbCunicjEOOfU1GnQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 October 2012 15:49, andrea crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2012/10/18 Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid>:
>>
>> If what you're guarding against is multiple instances of your
>> application modifying the file, then either of the advisory file
>> locking schemes or the separate lock file should work fine.
>
> Ok so I tried a small example to see if I can make it fail, but this
> below just works perfectly fine.
>
> Maybe it's too fast and it release the file in time, but I would
> expect it to take some time and fail instead..

Why not come up with a test that actually shows you if it works? Here
are two suggestions:

1) Use time.sleep() so that you know how long the lock is held for.
2) Write different data into the file from each process and see what
you end up with.

>
> import fcntl
>
> from multiprocessing import Process
>
> FILENAME = 'file.txt'
>
>
> def long_text():
>     return ('some text' * (100 * 100))
>
>
> class Locked:
>     def __init__(self, fileobj):
>         self.fileobj = fileobj
>
>     def __enter__(self):
>         # any problems here?
>         fcntl.lockf(self.fileobj, fcntl.LOCK_EX)
>         return self.fileobj
>
>     def __exit__(self, type, value, traceback):
>         fcntl.lockf(self.fileobj, fcntl.LOCK_UN)
>
>
> def write_to_file():
>     with open(FILENAME, 'w') as to_lock:

I don't think it will work if you truncate the file like this. This
will empty the file *before* checking for the lock. Try opening the
file for reading and writing (without truncating).

>         with Locked(to_lock):
>             to_lock.write(long_text())
>
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     Process(target=write_to_file).start()
>     Process(target=write_to_file).start()


Oscar


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 11:08:08 2012
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (andrea crotti)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 16:08:08 +0100
Subject: locking files on Linux
In-Reply-To: <CAHVvXxTCE8d_RoKgiT2S1XgMpUNPpd5gMHbCunicjEOOfU1GnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2430.1350566044.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5p03u$3t8$2@reader1.panix.com>
	<mailman.2431.1350567869.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5p1rg$et4$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<CAF_E5Jb9javdypCvPpVGkq+zPLmt-autD=bu+Z-uDrghhGneog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHVvXxTCE8d_RoKgiT2S1XgMpUNPpd5gMHbCunicjEOOfU1GnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF_E5Jbf3FagsPaMcQ11pKiPAzPSA2G-cS7r8Jemr84MaoKRyg@mail.gmail.com>

2012/10/18 Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com>:
>
> Why not come up with a test that actually shows you if it works? Here
> are two suggestions:
>
> 1) Use time.sleep() so that you know how long the lock is held for.
> 2) Write different data into the file from each process and see what
> you end up with.
>


Ok thanks I will try, but I thought that what I did was the worst
possible case, because I'm opening and writing on the same file from
two different processes, locking the file with LOCK_EX.

It should not open it at all as far as I understood...


From jeff.jeffries.iii at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 11:10:25 2012
From: jeff.jeffries.iii at gmail.com (Jeff Jeffries)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 11:10:25 -0400
Subject: Inheritance Question
In-Reply-To: <5080178B.6090103@davea.name>
References: <CANNB2xtaLMC49Y=xKoJn_7jNEJixzUsQZa019wZZw+d64cf3rg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5080178B.6090103@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CANNB2xsLypjsqpJcuZ93u3cwmDcuMGSiN6XGkrSgON4jooRwoQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:

> On 10/18/2012 10:10 AM, Jeff Jeffries wrote:
> > Hello everybody
> >
> > When I set "AttributeChanges" in my example, it sets the same value for
> all
> > other subclasses. Can someone help me with what the name of this behavior
> > is (mutable class global?) ? .... I don't know any keywords... having
> > trouble googling it
> >
>
> I can't understand your code or what you're trying to do with it, but
> maybe i can help anyway.  Incidentally, putting code in an attachment
> will hide it from many users of this mailing list.  Just paste it inline
> in your message, and make sure your message is composed as text, not html.
>
>
Eureka! This was useful too:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2923579/python-class-attribute

-- 
Cheers,
Jeff Jeffries III
CEO: www.willyoubemyfriend.com
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From rurpy at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 18 11:14:07 2012
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:14:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python scripts for web
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2418.1350554559.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <98b7e362-14fd-4721-84c8-ae1bc11febac@googlegroups.com>
	<CANaSqUeAJv3u4EqBymifyKZHey1YohU=O73niTpzYOvZgSV3TQ@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <ce2b1fcf-9cd0-4647-9309-be4a49eece2f@googlegroups.com>

On 10/18/2012 04:02 AM, Zero Piraeus wrote:> On 18 October 2012 05:22,  <chip9munk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>[...]
> By the way: are you using Google Groups? It's just that I'm led to
> understand that it's recently started to misbehave [more than it used
> to], and your replies are addressed to both
> <comp.lang.python at googlegroups.com> and <python-list at python.org>,
> which is redundant.

When you post from Google Groups you will sometimes
see a checkbox above the edit window that is a cc to
the python mailing list (<python-list at python.org>) 
which is checked by default.  

If you uncheck that, you'll stop the double posting.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 11:16:46 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 02:16:46 +1100
Subject: use of exec()
In-Reply-To: <2e5df7eb-7781-4c32-a9a7-088be940a4d3@googlegroups.com>
References: <2f12fa83-54cc-4fc2-85e4-b8aebebf4242@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2425.1350560975.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<05702a47-ff6b-4589-8352-d21b1921e77e@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2438.1350570579.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<2e5df7eb-7781-4c32-a9a7-088be940a4d3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoJcOtNY+Tbf+tLQqU4nex7+FbP++n6PR6w-C8ust-CHA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 2:00 AM, lars van gemerden <lars at rational-it.com> wrote:
> I get your point, since in this case having the custom code option makes the system a whole lot less complex and flexible, i will leave the option in. The future customer will be informed that they should handle the security around the designers as if they were programmers. Aditionally i will probably add some screening for unwanted keywords (like 'import') and securely log any new/changed custom code including the designer account (must do that for other actions anyway).

That sounds like a reasonable implementation of Layer Eight security.
As long as everyone understands that this code can do ANYTHING, you'll
be fine.

You may want to add some other programmatic checks, though; for
instance, a watchdog timer in case the code gets stuck in an infinite
loop, or a memory usage limit, or somesuch. Since you're no longer
worrying about security, this sort of thing will be fairly easy, and
will be just to help catch common errors.

ChrisA


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 11:31:42 2012
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 16:31:42 +0100
Subject: locking files on Linux
In-Reply-To: <CAF_E5Jbf3FagsPaMcQ11pKiPAzPSA2G-cS7r8Jemr84MaoKRyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2430.1350566044.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5p03u$3t8$2@reader1.panix.com>
	<mailman.2431.1350567869.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5p1rg$et4$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<CAF_E5Jb9javdypCvPpVGkq+zPLmt-autD=bu+Z-uDrghhGneog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHVvXxTCE8d_RoKgiT2S1XgMpUNPpd5gMHbCunicjEOOfU1GnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF_E5Jbf3FagsPaMcQ11pKiPAzPSA2G-cS7r8Jemr84MaoKRyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxSNsxjLD9X74-7Awe7uFxKU5cYeryqsRm3J-HxPFQ=AwA@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 October 2012 16:08, andrea crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2012/10/18 Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com>:
>>
>> Why not come up with a test that actually shows you if it works? Here
>> are two suggestions:
>>
>> 1) Use time.sleep() so that you know how long the lock is held for.
>> 2) Write different data into the file from each process and see what
>> you end up with.
>>
>
>
> Ok thanks I will try, but I thought that what I did was the worst
> possible case, because I'm opening and writing on the same file from
> two different processes, locking the file with LOCK_EX.
>
> It should not open it at all as far as I understood...

I don't think you have understood. Read the link that Grant posted:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_locking#In_Unix-like_systems

And my other comment:

>> def write_to_file():
>>     with open(FILENAME, 'w') as to_lock:
>
> I don't think it will work if you truncate the file like this. This
> will empty the file *before* checking for the lock. Try opening the
> file for reading and writing (without truncating).

The lock is cooperative. It does not prevent the file from being
opened or overwritten. It only prevents any other process from
obtaining the lock. Here you open the file with mode 'w' which
truncates the file instantly (without checking for the lock).


Oscar


From drsalists at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 11:49:45 2012
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:49:45 -0700
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <CANaSqUfLX7V2OxhO+fdVtmQcDzNfEgQfutHak_G-9_1_4nNr1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUfLX7V2OxhO+fdVtmQcDzNfEgQfutHak_G-9_1_4nNr1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_rJWsZ=DqY-vBdvpgo0t0SSexm=+qHiJ3EAuahxwnLA_w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 11:06 PM, Zero Piraeus <schesis at gmail.com> wrote:

> :
>
> Okay, so, first thing vaguely Python-related that comes to mind [so
> probably not even slightly original, but then that's not really the
> point]:
>
> What are people's preferred strategies for dealing with lines that go
> over 79 characters? A few I can think of off the bat:
>
> 5. Perform an otherwise pointless assignment to a temp variable on the
> previous line to make it fit.
>
I tend to favor this one, #5.

In fact, I tend to do lots of "otherwise pointless" variables, because I
want to be able to quickly and easily insert print statements/functions
without having to  split up large commands, during debugging.

IOW, I don't like big, long one-liners. They tend to be less clear than
using lots of intermediate variables, and when you go to debug them you
often end up splitting  them up anyway.
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From patentsvnc at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 11:55:51 2012
From: patentsvnc at gmail.com (Den)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:55:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <90210f1e-c77c-4ac2-af68-2b598f0264c4@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 11:06:43 PM UTC-7, Zero Piraeus wrote:
> :
> 
> 
> What are people's preferred strategies for dealing with lines that go
> 
> over 79 characters? A few I can think of off the bat:
> 

I personally just keep typing until my statement is finished.  This is my program, not PEP's.

But I have to say I'm amused by the whole question, and others related to PEP8.  A quick aside, the width of our roads all go back to the width of a two horse rig.  The suggested maximum of 80 characters goes back to teletype machines, and IBM cards, and character based terminals

Should that really be the basis for a suggested style now?

Den


From patentsvnc at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 11:55:51 2012
From: patentsvnc at gmail.com (Den)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:55:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <90210f1e-c77c-4ac2-af68-2b598f0264c4@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 11:06:43 PM UTC-7, Zero Piraeus wrote:
> :
> 
> 
> What are people's preferred strategies for dealing with lines that go
> 
> over 79 characters? A few I can think of off the bat:
> 

I personally just keep typing until my statement is finished.  This is my program, not PEP's.

But I have to say I'm amused by the whole question, and others related to PEP8.  A quick aside, the width of our roads all go back to the width of a two horse rig.  The suggested maximum of 80 characters goes back to teletype machines, and IBM cards, and character based terminals

Should that really be the basis for a suggested style now?

Den


From chip9munk at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 12:01:31 2012
From: chip9munk at gmail.com (chip9munk at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 09:01:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python scripts for web
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2418.1350554559.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <98b7e362-14fd-4721-84c8-ae1bc11febac@googlegroups.com>
	<CANaSqUeAJv3u4EqBymifyKZHey1YohU=O73niTpzYOvZgSV3TQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2409.1350547078.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e10b4aba-a725-46c4-aaa9-0035a099a9bf@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2412.1350549775.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<809c86c5-26a0-4f4a-bce7-ad8f63efa763@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2418.1350554559.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8be7a481-c5c7-4bac-8470-32824f9ad40c@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 12:02:40 PM UTC+2, Zero Piraeus wrote:

> Assuming your scripts accept the request as sent and return an
> appropriate response, they are CGI scripts (unless there's some
> wrinkle in the precise definition of CGI that escapes me right now).

yes, they are, but, I came under the impression that it is not the most elegant/fast way to do it... shouldn't the mod_wsgi be a better strategy?
or am i mixing these therms?


From chip9munk at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 12:03:17 2012
From: chip9munk at gmail.com (chip9munk at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 09:03:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python scripts for web
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2419.1350554581.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <98b7e362-14fd-4721-84c8-ae1bc11febac@googlegroups.com>
	<CANaSqUeAJv3u4EqBymifyKZHey1YohU=O73niTpzYOvZgSV3TQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2409.1350547078.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e10b4aba-a725-46c4-aaa9-0035a099a9bf@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2412.1350549775.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<809c86c5-26a0-4f4a-bce7-ad8f63efa763@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2419.1350554581.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <866debf5-4b07-4b93-b785-442b1b14e2e5@googlegroups.com>

thank you for the answer!

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 12:03:02 PM UTC+2, Chris Angelico wrote:
> CGI is a protocol between Apache and your script. What you want to do
> is set up Apache to call your CGI scripts.



yes, but as I have just answered to Zero, is using mod_wsgi a better strategy?


From chip9munk at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 12:07:20 2012
From: chip9munk at gmail.com (chip9munk at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 09:07:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python scripts for web
In-Reply-To: <98b7e362-14fd-4721-84c8-ae1bc11febac@googlegroups.com>
References: <98b7e362-14fd-4721-84c8-ae1bc11febac@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8f015d66-73e6-4d70-996a-8f35743e9d84@googlegroups.com>

thank you guys for pointing the double posting issue out, I am having some issues with the news server i am using, so I am doing this via google.groups at the time! :)

i think i managed to fix it


From curty at free.fr  Thu Oct 18 12:09:47 2012
From: curty at free.fr (Curt)
Date: 18 Oct 2012 16:09:47 GMT
Subject: Aggressive language on python-list
References: <CANaSqUdc2avcmQRhQLcmy36PcCc5EFz2Ci42ZrXrafQ43f6_3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2183.1350251949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a6bbffa9-6510-40c6-bc22-70c1953bce39@googlegroups.com>
	<27cbf07c-60ac-41ac-a00f-dbe8edf45078@b9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<85099bc2-fa24-4cc5-bd94-3015b9af694f@googlegroups.com>
	<507d900e$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<5a713407-d82f-4067-8ffa-6b8b66c1edf1@googlegroups.com>
	<507e1baf$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<b99ba80d-9759-4cb7-a1c2-a07614c3b567@googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmpeJkrmXyLPAUwTcn8Ax9aKKGta4AdDE+ExdpPRfX0Zdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2362.1350505715.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<35b41895-45d9-4f2e-9285-2bb0c36fb2a6@googlegroups.com>
	<507f3c6c$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CALwzid=qTt+XaHrtBbtw0WHF+gmJcOAkPUH8_DVyuiDx2mssmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1350518010.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnk80afa.2ps.curty@einstein.electron.org>

On 2012-10-17, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Instead of "diabetic", try inserting the word "black" or "female".
>> There's no shame in those either, yet I think that the offensiveness
>> of either of those words used in that context should be obvious.
>
> To take it a little further, what if I said I got gypped. I think it
> goes to gypsy's. Was it racist?

I told a girl friend once that my laptop had been purloined, and she
thought I was maligning her cat.

Maybe not the same thing.


From neilc at norwich.edu  Thu Oct 18 12:13:44 2012
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 18 Oct 2012 16:13:44 GMT
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<90210f1e-c77c-4ac2-af68-2b598f0264c4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <aeao5nFdrfsU1@mid.individual.net>

On 2012-10-18, Den <patentsvnc at gmail.com> wrote:
> But I have to say I'm amused by the whole question, and others
> related to PEP8.  A quick aside, the width of our roads all go
> back to the width of a two horse rig.  The suggested maximum of
> 80 characters goes back to teletype machines, and IBM cards,
> and character based terminals
>
> Should that really be the basis for a suggested style now?

I had to use vim's reformatting powers to fix your first
paragraph. ;)

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/06/text-columns-how-long-is-too-long.html

Code is limited to one column, is left-justified, and
comprehension is much more important than reading speed. There
are lots of studies, but they are all about blocks of text, not
code.

Though technology has moved along swiftly, keeping your code
accessible to the guy using a crummy old console xterm might
still be worthwhile, and it makes printouts easy to create.

-- 
Neil Cerutti


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 12:15:10 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 03:15:10 +1100
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <CAGGBd_rJWsZ=DqY-vBdvpgo0t0SSexm=+qHiJ3EAuahxwnLA_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUfLX7V2OxhO+fdVtmQcDzNfEgQfutHak_G-9_1_4nNr1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGGBd_rJWsZ=DqY-vBdvpgo0t0SSexm=+qHiJ3EAuahxwnLA_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpVR_mBC+VCUhyh_jGs_O9NSKU2kN+PB0wmhXHoszGfVQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 2:49 AM, Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:
> In fact, I tend to do lots of "otherwise pointless" variables, because I
> want to be able to quickly and easily insert print statements/functions
> without having to  split up large commands, during debugging.

When will we next have a language with something like the REXX 'trace
i' command?

[C:\Desktop]rexxtry trace i; say 1+2*3 "equals" words(linein(word(source,3)))
    95 *-*                 Say 1 + 2 * 3 'equals'
words(linein(word(source, 3)));
       >L>                   "1"
       >L>                   "2"
       >L>                   "3"
       >O>                   "6"
       >O>                   "7"
       >L>                   "equals"
       >O>                   "7 equals"
       >V>                   "OS/2 COMMAND C:\OS2\REXXTRY.CMD"
       >L>                   "3"
       >F>                   "C:\OS2\REXXTRY.CMD"
       >F>                   "/* SAA-portable REXXTRY procedure
11/08/91  version 1.05"
       >F>                   "7"
       >O>                   "7 equals 7"
       >>>                   "7 equals 7"
    96 *-*               Trace 'Off';

Intermediate expression/statement evaluation, full details. Takes some
knowledge to comprehend (>L> means literal, >V> variable, >F> function
return value, etc), but extremely handy. Unfortunately REXX is an
aging language, as evidenced by such features as DBCS support (but no
Unicode), and functions as first-class objects support (nonexistent).
But this is a feature that I'd love to see implemented somewhere else.

Which probably means I'm going to have to write it somewhere else...

ChrisA


From driscoll at cs.wisc.edu  Thu Oct 18 12:16:27 2012
From: driscoll at cs.wisc.edu (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 11:16:27 -0500
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <CANaSqUfLX7V2OxhO+fdVtmQcDzNfEgQfutHak_G-9_1_4nNr1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUfLX7V2OxhO+fdVtmQcDzNfEgQfutHak_G-9_1_4nNr1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50802B5B.6040902@cs.wisc.edu>

Ooo, a good religious war. How could I resist? :-) Bear in mind that
what I say is relative to layout issues, which in the grand scheme of
things. So even if I say I really disklike something, it's still not so
bad in practice. Except for backslash continuations. :-)


On 10/18/2012 01:06 AM, Zero Piraeus wrote:
> What are people's preferred strategies for dealing with lines that go
> over 79 characters?

My general rules are:

1. I dislike 80 character limits, and basically don't make a
   particularly strong attempt adhere to them for, well, basically
   any code I write, Python or not. I'll explain a little bit of why
   later. (I'd begrudgingly go along if I were working on a different
   code base that did of course, but in the meantime I don't have to
   deal with corporate style standards or anything like that so can
   bend the rules a bit.) 100 about where I start getting
   uncomfortable, and my semi-hard limit is 110-120. No doubt that's
   because that's about the line length I get with half of my monitor's
   width. :-)

   Python isn't as bad as C++ though (my main other language), where
   80 characters can go by *very* quickly.

2. Backslash continuations are *terrible*. I hate them with a firery
   passion. :-) A line could be 1000 characters long and it would be
   better than a 120-character line backslash-continued.

3. Using parentheses for continuations is sunshine and rainbows.

4. Extra variables are also great; I suspect I tend to use a
   more-than-average amount of extra variables anyway. (Though
   probably less so compared with the Python coder community than with
   the C++ coder community.)


Hans Mulder said:
>  Steven D'Aprano said:
>> some_variable = spam('x') + ham(
>>                     some_longer_variables, here_and_here,
>>                     and_here_also)
>
> I would spell that as:
>
> some_variable = spam('x') + ham(
>     some_longer_variables,
>     here_and_here,
>     and_here_also,
> )

Ugh, I hate both. :-) I really dislike the arguments to a function
appearing to the left of the function. I'm fine with either

   some_function(foo,
                 bar,
                 baz)

or

   some_function(
       foo,
       bar,
       baz)

but the two quoted suggestion makes me cringe a bit. (Of my two options,
I think I actually prefer the latter, but tend to use the former because
I'm too lazy to figure out how to make Emacs do the second one.)

So with the above rule I might format that as:

   some_variable = spam('x') + ham(some_longer_variables,
                                   here_and_here,
                                   and_here_also)

except that runs afoul of another of my implict formatting "rules",
which is that if I have a multi-argument construct (e.g. an operator
or function call) and one of the arguments is multiple lines, I'd prefer
to see all of the arguments on their own lines. So I'd format
that as:

   some_variable = (spam('x')
                    + ham(a, b, c))

as my first choice (long var names truncated here, but in real code with
no indent that's only 76 characters with the full ones in so it's fine
-- I'd do it that way even with a couple levels of indent)  and

   some_variable = (spam('x')
                    + ham(some_longer_variables,
                          here_and_here,
                          and_here_also))

as my second, even though they require an extra set of parentheses and
even though there is plenty of room on the first line for "foo +
foo(".


The reason I say I dislike the quoted suggestions -- and ultimately why
I really dislike the 80 character limit -- is the following. If you ask
proponents of the 80 character limit, they'll tell you about how there's
only so much horizontal space and stuff like that. But I think that
ignores the benefits you get from intelligently using *vertical* space,
and I think the quoted suggestions do too.

I've taken each of the suggested formattings of the above and turned
them into a graphic, which you can see at
http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~driscoll/temp/indent.png

I've drawn the boundary of every valid subexpression (except for the RHS
of each assignment) in each of the versions. In my suggestions, the
"ham(....)" subexpression is always contained within a rectangle -- in
the quoted suggestions, it is not, and is a more complicated shape. It
seems to me that the relationship between the vertical and horizontal
layout in those examples is somewhat haphazard. I can't even come up
with a "rule" for how the quoted examples arose; for mine, I'd say I'm
trying to keep subexpressions together in space (both horizontal and
vertical). I'm not sure that "drawing boxes" is exactly the right thing
to say what I'm doing, but I think it at least serves to illustrate my
point in this case.

Evan

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From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 12:21:10 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 03:21:10 +1100
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <aeao5nFdrfsU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<90210f1e-c77c-4ac2-af68-2b598f0264c4@googlegroups.com>
	<aeao5nFdrfsU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmov7MGb+iskK6LFjtsUZ=y6AMbDaSvtr9cyPnowNDneEw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 3:13 AM, Neil Cerutti <neilc at norwich.edu> wrote:
> Though technology has moved along swiftly, keeping your code
> accessible to the guy using a crummy old console xterm might
> still be worthwhile, and it makes printouts easy to create.

And keeping your interface accessible to someone who can't use the
Home and End keys allows it to be used by someone who's using PuTTY on
Windows to SSH to a gateway and then SSH from there to a firewalled
computer that's running your application. And yes, I do exactly that,
and yes, for some reason Home/End don't always work. One day I'll
probably figure out what the issue is, but for now, I'm just glad
there are baseline text editors that don't need such keys...

Technology moves on, but not everywhere.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 12:26:10 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 03:26:10 +1100
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <50802B5B.6040902@cs.wisc.edu>
References: <CANaSqUfLX7V2OxhO+fdVtmQcDzNfEgQfutHak_G-9_1_4nNr1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<50802B5B.6040902@cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqGmYHD7vTdWdSq-Ro4ZCv2z=3zea92iahy-7Qx4=NoOg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 3:16 AM, Evan Driscoll <driscoll at cs.wisc.edu> wrote:
>    Python isn't as bad as C++ though (my main other language), where
>    80 characters can go by *very* quickly.
>
> 2. Backslash continuations are *terrible*. I hate them with a firery
>    passion. :-) A line could be 1000 characters long and it would be
>    better than a 120-character line backslash-continued.

I have one mid-sized C++ project at work that's pretty much
exclusively under my control. There is precisely ONE place where
backslash continuations crop up, and that's long strings that want to
be formatted on multiple lines (eg huge SQL statements) - in Python,
they'd be trip-quoted. We don't have *any* backslash continuations in
Python code.

ChrisA


From d at davea.name  Thu Oct 18 12:47:48 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:47:48 -0400
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqGmYHD7vTdWdSq-Ro4ZCv2z=3zea92iahy-7Qx4=NoOg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUfLX7V2OxhO+fdVtmQcDzNfEgQfutHak_G-9_1_4nNr1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<50802B5B.6040902@cs.wisc.edu>
	<CAPTjJmqGmYHD7vTdWdSq-Ro4ZCv2z=3zea92iahy-7Qx4=NoOg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508032B4.5040303@davea.name>

On 10/18/2012 12:26 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 3:16 AM, Evan Driscoll <driscoll at cs.wisc.edu> wrote:
>>    Python isn't as bad as C++ though (my main other language), where
>>    80 characters can go by *very* quickly.
>>
>> 2. Backslash continuations are *terrible*. I hate them with a firery
>>    passion. :-) A line could be 1000 characters long and it would be
>>    better than a 120-character line backslash-continued.
> I have one mid-sized C++ project at work that's pretty much
> exclusively under my control. There is precisely ONE place where
> backslash continuations crop up, and that's long strings that want to
> be formatted on multiple lines (eg huge SQL statements) - in Python,
> they'd be trip-quoted. We don't have *any* backslash continuations in
> Python code.
>
>

But both C++ and Python have automatic concatenation of adjacent
strings.  So you can just start and end each line with a quote, and
leave off the backslash.

Similarly, if you need a newline at the end of each line, you can use
the \n just before the trailing quote.  Naturally I agree with you that
this case is better handled in Python with triple-quote.

I never use the backslash at end-of-line to continue a statement to the
next.  Not only is it a readability problem, but if your editor doesn't
have visible spaces, you can accidentally have whitespace after the
backslash, and wonder what went wrong.

-- 

DaveA



From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Thu Oct 18 12:58:18 2012
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 09:58:18 -0700
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <508032B4.5040303@davea.name>
References: <CANaSqUfLX7V2OxhO+fdVtmQcDzNfEgQfutHak_G-9_1_4nNr1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<50802B5B.6040902@cs.wisc.edu>
	<CAPTjJmqGmYHD7vTdWdSq-Ro4ZCv2z=3zea92iahy-7Qx4=NoOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<508032B4.5040303@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxtd7Ym+Pspx+=4tVUazj8ZO8Zhz_T9USuLEGLPg1HRjWQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:

> On 10/18/2012 12:26 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 3:16 AM, Evan Driscoll <driscoll at cs.wisc.edu>
> wrote:
> >>    Python isn't as bad as C++ though (my main other language), where
> >>    80 characters can go by *very* quickly.
> >>
> >> 2. Backslash continuations are *terrible*. I hate them with a firery
> >>    passion. :-) A line could be 1000 characters long and it would be
> >>    better than a 120-character line backslash-continued.
> > I have one mid-sized C++ project at work that's pretty much
> > exclusively under my control. There is precisely ONE place where
> > backslash continuations crop up, and that's long strings that want to
> > be formatted on multiple lines (eg huge SQL statements) - in Python,
> > they'd be trip-quoted. We don't have *any* backslash continuations in
> > Python code.
> >
> >
>
> But both C++ and Python have automatic concatenation of adjacent
> strings.  So you can just start and end each line with a quote, and
> leave off the backslash.
>

That will work in C++ as the statements won't terminate on new-line (only
on semi-colon), however in Python that won't work as the statement
will terminate at the end of the line. You can get around this by wrapping
the multiple strings inside of parentheses.
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From d at davea.name  Thu Oct 18 13:09:43 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 13:09:43 -0400
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <CALvWhxtd7Ym+Pspx+=4tVUazj8ZO8Zhz_T9USuLEGLPg1HRjWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANaSqUfLX7V2OxhO+fdVtmQcDzNfEgQfutHak_G-9_1_4nNr1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<50802B5B.6040902@cs.wisc.edu>
	<CAPTjJmqGmYHD7vTdWdSq-Ro4ZCv2z=3zea92iahy-7Qx4=NoOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<508032B4.5040303@davea.name>
	<CALvWhxtd7Ym+Pspx+=4tVUazj8ZO8Zhz_T9USuLEGLPg1HRjWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508037D7.3060202@davea.name>

On 10/18/2012 12:58 PM, Chris Kaynor wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:
>
>> <SNIP>
>> But both C++ and Python have automatic concatenation of adjacent
>> strings.  So you can just start and end each line with a quote, and
>> leave off the backslash.
>>
> That will work in C++ as the statements won't terminate on new-line (only
> on semi-colon), however in Python that won't work as the statement
> will terminate at the end of the line. You can get around this by wrapping
> the multiple strings inside of parentheses.
>
>

You're right of course.  As it happens, i tested my "remembery" with a
function call (print, in Python 3) , so I already had the parens.

-- 

DaveA



From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 13:23:56 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 10:23:56 -0700
Subject: len() on mutables vs. immutables
Message-ID: <50803B2C.6010900@gmail.com>

I'm curious as to the implementation (I'd be happy to dig through the 
source, just don't have the time right now). I've seen various 
implementations across interpreters in the past (some which have been 
rather shocking) and I'd like to get some insight into Python (well, 
CPython at this point anyway).

When len() is called passing an immutable built-in type (such as a 
string), I'd assume that the overhead in doing so is simply a function 
call and there are no on-call calculations done. Is that correct?

I'd also assume that mutable built-in types (such as a bytearray) would 
cache their size internally as a side effect of mutation operations. Is 
that correct? If so, is it safe to assume that at least all built-in 
types observe this behavior, or are there some that incur an O(n) cost 
on every len() call?

Obviously this can't be controlled with custom types that implement 
their own __len__, I'm only asking about Python's built-ins.

Thanks,
Demian
@demianbrecht
http://demianbrecht.github.com


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Thu Oct 18 13:44:42 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:44:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2449.1350575755.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k5pf6a$185$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-18, Den <patentsvnc at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 11:06:43 PM UTC-7, Zero Piraeus wrote:
>
>> What are people's preferred strategies for dealing with lines that go
>> 
>> over 79 characters? A few I can think of off the bat:
>
> I personally just keep typing until my statement is finished.  This
> is my program, not PEP's.
>
> But I have to say I'm amused by the whole question, and others
> related to PEP8.  A quick aside, the width of our roads all go back
> to the width of a two horse rig.  The suggested maximum of 80
> characters goes back to teletype machines, and IBM cards, and
> character based terminals
>
> Should that really be the basis for a suggested style now?

You don't expect me to through my Heathkit H19 terminal in the trash,
do you?  :)

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! This is a NO-FRILLS
                                  at               flight -- hold th' CANADIAN
                              gmail.com            BACON!!


From nick.cash at npcinternational.com  Thu Oct 18 14:28:18 2012
From: nick.cash at npcinternational.com (Nick Cash)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 18:28:18 +0000
Subject: len() on mutables vs. immutables
In-Reply-To: <50803B2C.6010900@gmail.com>
References: <50803B2C.6010900@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <846C3A8E860C4344B567D813B63AA51D5A9C82FE@BL2PRD0610MB349.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

> I'm curious as to the implementation (I'd be happy to dig through the
> source, just don't have the time right now). I've seen various
> implementations across interpreters in the past (some which have been
> rather shocking) and I'd like to get some insight into Python (well,
> CPython at this point anyway).
> 
> When len() is called passing an immutable built-in type (such as a
> string), I'd assume that the overhead in doing so is simply a function
> call and there are no on-call calculations done. Is that correct?
> 
> I'd also assume that mutable built-in types (such as a bytearray) would
> cache their size internally as a side effect of mutation operations. Is
> that correct? If so, is it safe to assume that at least all built-in
> types observe this behavior, or are there some that incur an O(n) cost
> on every len() call?

It appears that list has len() complexity of O(1)
source: http://wiki.python.org/moin/TimeComplexity
It may be worth mentioning that lists in Python are implemented using arrays instead of linked lists.

It's reasonable to assume that other built-in collection types would be similar, though I don't see anything explicitly saying so for bytearray.

-Nick Cash



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Oct 18 14:29:28 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 14:29:28 -0400
Subject: len() on mutables vs. immutables
In-Reply-To: <50803B2C.6010900@gmail.com>
References: <50803B2C.6010900@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5phqe$2ia$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/18/2012 1:23 PM, Demian Brecht wrote:

> When len() is called passing an immutable built-in type (such as a
> string), I'd assume that the overhead in doing so is simply a function
> call and there are no on-call calculations done. Is that correct?

See below.

> I'd also assume that mutable built-in types (such as a bytearray) would
> cache their size internally as a side effect of mutation operations. Is

Or the length could be the difference of two pointers -- address of the 
first empty slot minus address of first item.

> that correct? If so, is it safe to assume that at least all built-in
> types observe this behavior,

str, bytes, bytearrays, arrays, sets, frozensets, dicts, dictviews, and 
ranges should all return len in O(1) time. That includes the possibility 
of a subtraction as indicated above.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 14:38:20 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 11:38:20 -0700
Subject: len() on mutables vs. immutables
In-Reply-To: <846C3A8E860C4344B567D813B63AA51D5A9C82FE@BL2PRD0610MB349.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <50803B2C.6010900@gmail.com>
	<846C3A8E860C4344B567D813B63AA51D5A9C82FE@BL2PRD0610MB349.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <50804C9C.9040407@gmail.com>

On 10/18/2012 11:28 AM, Nick Cash wrote:
> It appears that list has len() complexity of O(1)
> source: http://wiki.python.org/moin/TimeComplexity
> It may be worth mentioning that lists in Python are implemented using arrays instead of linked lists.
>
> It's reasonable to assume that other built-in collection types would be similar, though I don't see anything explicitly saying so for bytearray.
>
> -Nick Cash

Thanks for the link, I don't believe I had seen that one before.




From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Thu Oct 18 14:42:33 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 18:42:33 +0000
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <507fc6b4$0$6861$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507fa256$0$11093$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<507fc6b4$0$6861$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671CF77@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Hans Mulder wrote:
> On 18/10/12 08:31:51, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 02:06:19 -0400, Zero Piraeus wrote:
> >> 3. Say "well, at least it's not a backslash" and break the line using
> >> > parentheses.
> > I mostly do this. Since most lines include a bracket of some sort, I
> > rarely need to add outer parentheses just for the purpose of line
> > continuation.
> >
> > some_variable = spam('x') + ham(
> >                     some_longer_variables, here_and_here,
> >                     and_here_also)
> 
> I would spell that as:
> 
> some_variable = spam('x') + ham(
>     some_longer_variables,
>     here_and_here,
>     and_here_also,
> )
> 
> > I know PEP 8 says I should drop the final round bracket to the next line,
> > but I don't normally like that.
> 
> I normally put the final bracket on the next line, where it is
> very visible.  Compare:
> 
> if looks_like_it_might_be_spam(
>     some_longer_variables,
>     here_and_here, and_here_also):
>     logger.notice("might be spam")
>     move_to_spam_folder(some_longer_variables)
>     update_spam_statistics(here_and_here)
> 
> vs.
> 
> if looks_like_it_might_be_spam(
>     some_longer_variables,
>     here_and_here,
>     and_here_also,
> ):
>     logger.notice("might be spam")
>     move_to_spam_folder(some_longer_variables)
>     update_spam_statistics(here_and_here)
> 
> Which one would you say is more readable?
> 

For the first example, I would probably indent the arguments more 
to differentiate a continuing line. That way the "):" does not
look like it was un-indented to be part of a different block.

if looks_like_it_might_be_spam(
            some_longer_variables,
            here_and_here, and_here_also):
    logger.notice("might be spam")
    move_to_spam_folder(some_longer_variables)
    update_spam_statistics(here_and_here)


Ramit Prasad



This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 14:42:48 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 11:42:48 -0700
Subject: len() on mutables vs. immutables
In-Reply-To: <k5phqe$2ia$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <50803B2C.6010900@gmail.com> <k5phqe$2ia$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <50804DA8.80708@gmail.com>

On 10/18/2012 11:29 AM, Terry Reedy wrote:> Or the length could be the 
difference of two pointers -- address of the
 > first empty slot minus address of first item.

That would assume contiguous blocks of memory, which I would find to be 
rather dangerous (of an assumption that is) in most dynamic cases 
(obviously totally depends on implementation details).

 > str, bytes, bytearrays, arrays, sets, frozensets, dicts, dictviews, and
 > ranges should all return len in O(1) time. That includes the possibility
 > of a subtraction as indicated above.

Awesome. Pretty much what I figured. Of course, I'll have to dig around 
the source just to confirm this with my own eyes (more just curiosity 
than anything), so if you know whereabouts to look, it would be most 
helpful :)


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Thu Oct 18 14:50:15 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 18:50:15 +0000
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <90210f1e-c77c-4ac2-af68-2b598f0264c4@googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<90210f1e-c77c-4ac2-af68-2b598f0264c4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671CF97@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Den wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 11:06:43 PM UTC-7, Zero Piraeus wrote:
> > :
> >
> >
> > What are people's preferred strategies for dealing with lines that go
> >
> > over 79 characters? A few I can think of off the bat:
> >
> 
> I personally just keep typing until my statement is finished.  This is my program, not PEP's.
> 
> But I have to say I'm amused by the whole question, and others related to PEP8.  A quick aside, the width of our
> roads all go back to the width of a two horse rig.  The suggested maximum of 80 characters goes back to teletype
> machines, and IBM cards, and character based terminals
> 
> Should that really be the basis for a suggested style now?
> 
> Den

Unlike IBM cards and the teletype, character based terminals are still
widely used (at least in the developer communities). They often default to
80 characters, but handle various sizes. So that comparison is not quite
fair. 

Ramit Prasad

This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 14:51:45 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 19:51:45 +0100
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <507FE27E.6080204@tim.thechases.com>
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507fa256$0$11093$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<507fc6b4$0$6861$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
	<bf646126-e170-4548-b0a1-de2e0444f71c@googlegroups.com>
	<507FE27E.6080204@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qXYXEzfaqJ+B1vn=AYq9t+hrWh6cTCJvxGozymx=DC0ng@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 October 2012 12:05, Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:

> On 10/18/12 04:33, wxjmfauth at gmail.com wrote:
> > I use a "double indentation".
> >
> >>>> if 'asdf' and 'asdf' and 'asdf' \
> > ...         'asdf' and 'asdf' and \
> > ...         'asdf' and 'asdf':
> > ...     print('do if')
> > ...     s = 'asdf'
> > ...     ss = 'asdf'
> > ...
> > do if
> >>>> if looks_like_it_might_be_spam(
> > ...         some_longer_variables,
> > ...         here_and_here, and_here_also):
> > ...     logger.notice("might be spam")
> > ...     move_to_spam_folder(some_longer_variables)
> > ...     update_spam_statistics(here_and_here)
>
> I lean towards double-indent as well, though I favor parens/brackets
> vs. trailing backslashes.  My conditions usually go one-per-line,
> too.  I also tend to put my closing paren+colon on a stand-alone line:
>
>     if (
>             something
>             or something_else
>             or yet_other_stuff
>             ):
>         do_thing1()
>         do_thing2()
>
> It's not quite as nice with pure parens, working better with
> function-calls.  However, it makes my git/svn diffs easier to read
> when conditions get added/removed because only that line (usually)
> changes, rather than having the noise of the paren moving around.
>
> In 2.5 and later, I like to write that as
>
>     if any([
>             something,
>             something_else,
>             yet_other_stuff,
>             ]):
>         do_thing1()
>         do_thing2()
>
> where each item is uniform (one trailing comma, rather than one item
> being special without a comma/or/and) so I don't have the diff noise
> for "or"/"and" bouncing around either.
>
> Making my diffs easy to read is pretty important to me.
>

I'm of the opinion that:

cheese_cake = bake(

 self_raising_flour(),

 sour_lemons(),

 milky_cheese(),

 )


is the nicest format for normal overflow, but I'm really irked at the sight
of *any* overflow in an "if x:" statement or anything that starts more
indentation. All indentation *and* outdentation should be meaningful:
"group" or "end group" respectively. If you indent and then outdent *to a
new indentation*, it's confusing and obfuscating. The outdent is not "end
group", as before, but something else.

The neat thing about:

> foobars = inversed_word_order(

 barfoo(),

 raboof(

 inverse_mode="letters",

  hidden_lettuce=GGE_RETSAE

 ),

 not foobar()

 )

is that it is consistent with this world-view.

My lines often go past 120 characters without splitting*, so I rarely have
this problem, but when I do the solution is *invariably*:

all_can_be_baked = all(

 can_be_baked(ingredient)

 for ingredient in [

 self_raising_flour(),

 sour_lemons(),

 milky_cheese(),

 ]

)



if all_can_be_baked:


There is not a situation in the world where a suitable intermediate name
can not be found: you are doing something for a reason, after all.

* I use 8-space tabs, so it's not that hard ;)
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From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Thu Oct 18 14:51:58 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 18:51:58 +0000
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmov7MGb+iskK6LFjtsUZ=y6AMbDaSvtr9cyPnowNDneEw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<90210f1e-c77c-4ac2-af68-2b598f0264c4@googlegroups.com>
	<aeao5nFdrfsU1@mid.individual.net>
	<CAPTjJmov7MGb+iskK6LFjtsUZ=y6AMbDaSvtr9cyPnowNDneEw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671CFA9@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Chris Angelico wrote: 
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 3:13 AM, Neil Cerutti <neilc at norwich.edu> wrote:
> > Though technology has moved along swiftly, keeping your code
> > accessible to the guy using a crummy old console xterm might
> > still be worthwhile, and it makes printouts easy to create.
> 
> And keeping your interface accessible to someone who can't use the
> Home and End keys allows it to be used by someone who's using PuTTY on
> Windows to SSH to a gateway and then SSH from there to a firewalled
> computer that's running your application. And yes, I do exactly that,
> and yes, for some reason Home/End don't always work. One day I'll
> probably figure out what the issue is, but for now, I'm just glad
> there are baseline text editors that don't need such keys...
> 
> Technology moves on, but not everywhere.
> 
> ChrisA
> --

Home and end do not bother me much as I can usually use ctrl+a/ctrl+e
for the same purpose. I do wish I found a better way to page up/down.


Ramit Prasad
 
This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
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confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Thu Oct 18 15:01:29 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 19:01:29 +0000
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJVsKq+vZt+b80LeKxeR7DZEtMNnzXW-6Or-HGMyjAdxQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507D7540.9010303@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVVFiZbtPEXA1Gpa_yg8g9e=oN0gyF=b8jnGnUsSPZ6vA@mail.gmail.com>
	<94BCE27A-C403-4339-B0A6-DFCCAF859BDD@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVz+4SBv3BfR=-UGSBF0iA4sCop+ATy-iE8L7_gcLUm2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<9A6903B3-2C27-401B-937A-E2D49A2ADA99@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUnAESf7o+9wahxq7W7qaDKRaVn=8+gAox=ouPsqgQVVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671AD00@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
	<CA+vVgJVsKq+vZt+b80LeKxeR7DZEtMNnzXW-6Or-HGMyjAdxQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671D000@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

David Hutto wrote: 
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 12:38 PM, Prasad, Ramit
> <ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com> wrote:
> > David Hutto wrote:
> >> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:06 AM, Demian Brecht <demianbrecht at gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
> 
> > The question is whose opinion matters. Yours? Mine? Others? Personally,
> > I heartily second the recommendation to get professional advice on site
> > design. Your site reminds me of something I would create in the '90s
> > with FrontPage (do people even use that anymore?) as an amateur or
> > hobbyist; not something I would create as a professional attempting
> > to market my services.
> >
> I'm moving toward the smaller devices, but I'm a desktop guy, and so
> are a lot of others. And what site doesn't have a frontpage?

Just to clarify Microsoft FrontPage was a late 90s/early-2000's application
for creating web pages with a WYSIWYG front end. The precursor to Adobe's
Dreamweaver and sort of the web design equivalent of Microsoft Word.

[snip]

Out of curiosity, is there a reason you did not pick Python (seeing
as this is a Python mailing list) for this task? Or conversely, is
there a reason you picked PHP?


Ramit Prasad

This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
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confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Thu Oct 18 15:09:31 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 19:09:31 +0000
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJWbizbtN2oXHa9hUZQ_GWUZmJvGJ_00KALfWKd1CfwnaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+vVgJUpmGCLiT4HkUd6_xS0Ua5VJ7gPw355c=BcdsifQQ4QkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<507D7540.9010303@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVVFiZbtPEXA1Gpa_yg8g9e=oN0gyF=b8jnGnUsSPZ6vA@mail.gmail.com>
	<94BCE27A-C403-4339-B0A6-DFCCAF859BDD@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJVz+4SBv3BfR=-UGSBF0iA4sCop+ATy-iE8L7_gcLUm2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<9A6903B3-2C27-401B-937A-E2D49A2ADA99@gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUnAESf7o+9wahxq7W7qaDKRaVn=8+gAox=ouPsqgQVVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmowxiLndDVS6MgUuGtew4ULjjnQOpUvmd1A3KhGap-pxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2364.1350511515.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507f3b5a$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CA+vVgJWbizbtN2oXHa9hUZQ_GWUZmJvGJ_00KALfWKd1CfwnaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671D01B@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

David Hutto wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 7:12 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> > On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 18:05:12 -0400, Dwight Hutto wrote:
> >
> >> this was just a confidence statement that I'm
> >> intelligent as well, so don't get uppity with me.
> >
> > Please tone down the aggression.
> >
> >
> It's email, things get misinterpreted sometimes.
> 

True, which is why we should all take a little extra care
in what we write to avoid misinterpretation, especially
in terms of offensiveness. 

Besides, what you write here is public and can be seen by anyone 
with access to the Internet and a search engine. That includes prospective 
clients/employers! I know there is an increasing trend for employers 
to search the Internet to learn about potential employees. I do the 
same before I hire a company for many things (e.g. house/car repair,
translator, etc).


Ramit Prasad


This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Thu Oct 18 15:18:44 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 19:18:44 +0000
Subject: len() on mutables vs. immutables
In-Reply-To: <k5phqe$2ia$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <50803B2C.6010900@gmail.com> <k5phqe$2ia$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671D06A@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 10/18/2012 1:23 PM, Demian Brecht wrote:
> 
> > When len() is called passing an immutable built-in type (such as a
> > string), I'd assume that the overhead in doing so is simply a function
> > call and there are no on-call calculations done. Is that correct?
> 
> See below.
> 
> > I'd also assume that mutable built-in types (such as a bytearray) would
> > cache their size internally as a side effect of mutation operations. Is
> 
> Or the length could be the difference of two pointers -- address of the
> first empty slot minus address of first item.
> 
> > that correct? If so, is it safe to assume that at least all built-in
> > types observe this behavior,
> 
> str, bytes, bytearrays, arrays, sets, frozensets, dicts, dictviews, and
> ranges should all return len in O(1) time. That includes the possibility
> of a subtraction as indicated above.
> 

Why does pointer arithmetic work for dicts? I would think the position
of a value would be based on the hash of the key and thus "random" for
the context of this conversation.

Ramit Prasad


This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 15:38:33 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 13:38:33 -0600
Subject: len() on mutables vs. immutables
In-Reply-To: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671D06A@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
References: <50803B2C.6010900@gmail.com> <k5phqe$2ia$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671D06A@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzid==JD-mxv_okmhfC-nL+Yx8Dj6FYGCyRPGbsL3cmjGt2A@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Prasad, Ramit
<ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com> wrote:
> Why does pointer arithmetic work for dicts? I would think the position
> of a value would be based on the hash of the key and thus "random" for
> the context of this conversation.

It doesn't.  len() on CPython dicts is O(1) because the dict keeps
track of how many items it contains.  It needs to do this anyway so
that it can determine when to grow the internal hash table.


From urban.dani at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 15:43:17 2012
From: urban.dani at gmail.com (Daniel Urban)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 21:43:17 +0200
Subject: len() on mutables vs. immutables
In-Reply-To: <50804DA8.80708@gmail.com>
References: <50803B2C.6010900@gmail.com> <k5phqe$2ia$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<50804DA8.80708@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACoLFeSNciVJEtkDz28emirogBp+KivP_y5-uFt5x6QEzipHwA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 8:42 PM, Demian Brecht <demianbrecht at gmail.com> wrote:
>> str, bytes, bytearrays, arrays, sets, frozensets, dicts, dictviews, and
>> ranges should all return len in O(1) time. That includes the possibility
>> of a subtraction as indicated above.
>
> Awesome. Pretty much what I figured. Of course, I'll have to dig around the
> source just to confirm this with my own eyes (more just curiosity than
> anything), so if you know whereabouts to look, it would be most helpful :)

The source is usually in Objects/*object.c (e.g., the source for list
is in Objects/listobject.c, dict is in dictobject.c and so on). The
implementation of __len__ is usually in a method called
whatever_length (e.g., dict.__len__ is called dict_length). To be
sure, you can check the PyTypeObject declaration for the type.
Probably the tp_as_sequence or tp_as_mapping field contains the
pointer to __len__ (sq_length or mp_length respectively). (You can
also search for "lenfunc", which is the type of such functions.)


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Thu Oct 18 16:26:18 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 20:26:18 +0000
Subject: len() on mutables vs. immutables
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid==JD-mxv_okmhfC-nL+Yx8Dj6FYGCyRPGbsL3cmjGt2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50803B2C.6010900@gmail.com> <k5phqe$2ia$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671D06A@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
	<CALwzid==JD-mxv_okmhfC-nL+Yx8Dj6FYGCyRPGbsL3cmjGt2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671D182@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Ian Kelly wrote:
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 2:39 PM
> To: Python
> Subject: Re: len() on mutables vs. immutables
> 
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Prasad, Ramit
> <ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com> wrote:
> > Why does pointer arithmetic work for dicts? I would think the position
> > of a value would be based on the hash of the key and thus "random" for
> > the context of this conversation.
> 
> It doesn't.  len() on CPython dicts is O(1) because the dict keeps
> track of how many items it contains.  It needs to do this anyway so
> that it can determine when to grow the internal hash table.

That is what I was thinking "should" happen. Thanks for the 
clarification Ian.


Ramit Prasad


This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 17:02:18 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 15:02:18 -0600
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <508032B4.5040303@davea.name>
References: <CANaSqUfLX7V2OxhO+fdVtmQcDzNfEgQfutHak_G-9_1_4nNr1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<50802B5B.6040902@cs.wisc.edu>
	<CAPTjJmqGmYHD7vTdWdSq-Ro4ZCv2z=3zea92iahy-7Qx4=NoOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<508032B4.5040303@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkRTCDfHkw4o9Sz6g-OsS2xyb3xkNYiiBQyqS7ED_jpXw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:
> I never use the backslash at end-of-line to continue a statement to the
> next.  Not only is it a readability problem, but if your editor doesn't
> have visible spaces, you can accidentally have whitespace after the
> backslash, and wonder what went wrong.

Note the actual error message that you get in this case is:

"SyntaxError: unexpected character after line continuation character"

Seems pretty transparent to me.


From schesis at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 17:09:47 2012
From: schesis at gmail.com (Zero Piraeus)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:09:47 -0400
Subject: python scripts for web
In-Reply-To: <866debf5-4b07-4b93-b785-442b1b14e2e5@googlegroups.com>
References: <98b7e362-14fd-4721-84c8-ae1bc11febac@googlegroups.com>
	<CANaSqUeAJv3u4EqBymifyKZHey1YohU=O73niTpzYOvZgSV3TQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2409.1350547078.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e10b4aba-a725-46c4-aaa9-0035a099a9bf@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2412.1350549775.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<809c86c5-26a0-4f4a-bce7-ad8f63efa763@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2419.1350554581.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<866debf5-4b07-4b93-b785-442b1b14e2e5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CANaSqUep_xK4W6SwELrZgiOBaAtpORSQktmNT11EeUQweiTFdA@mail.gmail.com>

:

On 18 October 2012 12:03,  <chip9munk at gmail.com> wrote:
> yes, but as I have just answered to Zero, is using mod_wsgi a better strategy?

WSGI would enable you to write a persistent application that sits
around waiting for requests and returns responses for them as and
when, as opposed to a simple CGI script that gets started each time a
request comes in, and terminates once it's returned the response.

So it's really about startup time - if your scripts are just doing
something simple and quick, WSGI is likely overkill.

 -[]z.


From schesis at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 17:36:57 2012
From: schesis at gmail.com (Zero Piraeus)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:36:57 -0400
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <90210f1e-c77c-4ac2-af68-2b598f0264c4@googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<90210f1e-c77c-4ac2-af68-2b598f0264c4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CANaSqUdpD5GXn=MGGaByj6KSFCzRmfP908PvXbkMTdDk3ig66g@mail.gmail.com>

:

On 18 October 2012 11:55, Den <patentsvnc at gmail.com> wrote:
> [...] I'm amused by the whole question, and others related
> to PEP8.  A quick aside, the width of our roads all go back to the
> width of a two horse rig.  The suggested maximum of 80 characters goes
> back to teletype machines, and IBM cards, and character based
> terminals [...]

... and the decisions made back in the day about line length on
teletypes etc. were informed [perhaps unconsciously] by the rules of
printed literature - and *those* rules have a *lot* of accumulated
wisdom behind them.

Robert Bringhurst's Elements of Typographical Style is very good on
that stuff; one thing he points out is that, at root, what's
comfortable is defined by the size of the human hand, the distance we
hold a book from our eye, etc. ... and while we still live in a world
composed of physical objects, a lot of that gut feeling about what's
comfortable carries across into the digital world.

The accepted rule in print is that lines of prose should be between 45
and 90 characters, with 66 being ideal for readability. Code is not
prose, and the combination of fixed-width and much more variable line
length aids readability, but however it came about, ~80 does seem to
more or less work as a limit.

I'm pretty slavish about adhering to PEP 8 these days. Programmers are
an opinionated bunch, and we all, given the opportunity, will come up
with our own set of obviously [goddammit] correct rules. Having a
broadly sensible, authoritative set of guidelines that we grudgingly
agree to follow makes working with other coders easier IMO.

 -[]z.


From pengyu.ut at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 18:03:12 2012
From: pengyu.ut at gmail.com (Peng Yu)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 15:03:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pip fails to install packages on moutain loin (Mac OS 10.8.2)
Message-ID: <53b38fa2-ea8b-4225-bdf3-b9bcbde31743@o5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I installed Python using python-2.7.3-macosx10.6.dmg on my Mac OS
10.8.2.

When try to use pip to install packages, I get the following message.
Then the installation fails.

gcc-4.2 not found, using clang instead


I then create a link from /usr/bin/gcc to gcc-4.2. Then I run pip
again, I get the following error message.

Does anybody have a solution to install python on Mac OS 10.8.2 so
that packages can be installed with pip?

    /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/include/c++/4.2.1/exception:
42:28: error: bits/c++config.h: No such file or directory
    In file included from /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/include/c+
+/4.2.1/bits/stl_algobase.h:70,
                     from /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/include/c+
+/4.2.1/bits/char_traits.h:46,
                     from /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/include/c+
+/4.2.1/string:47,
                     from /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/include/c+
+/4.2.1/stdexcept:44,

Regards,
Peng


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Thu Oct 18 18:16:23 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 22:16:23 +0000
Subject: pip fails to install packages on moutain loin (Mac OS 10.8.2)
In-Reply-To: <53b38fa2-ea8b-4225-bdf3-b9bcbde31743@o5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <53b38fa2-ea8b-4225-bdf3-b9bcbde31743@o5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671D3B6@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Peng Yu wrote
> Hi,
> 
> I installed Python using python-2.7.3-macosx10.6.dmg on my Mac OS
> 10.8.2.
> 
> When try to use pip to install packages, I get the following message.
> Then the installation fails.
> 
> gcc-4.2 not found, using clang instead
> 
> 
> I then create a link from /usr/bin/gcc to gcc-4.2. Then I run pip
> again, I get the following error message.
> 
> Does anybody have a solution to install python on Mac OS 10.8.2 so
> that packages can be installed with pip?
> 
>     /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/include/c++/4.2.1/exception:
> 42:28: error: bits/c++config.h: No such file or directory
>     In file included from /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/include/c+
> +/4.2.1/bits/stl_algobase.h:70,
>                      from /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/include/c+
> +/4.2.1/bits/char_traits.h:46,
>                      from /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/include/c+
> +/4.2.1/string:47,
>                      from /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/include/c+
> +/4.2.1/stdexcept:44,
> 
> Regards,
> Peng

I would install python+virtualenv+pip from MacPorts to keep
it separate from the OS X system Python. MacPorts will take 
care of everything for you as long as you have Xcode installed.	

`sudo ports install py27-pip`


Ramit Prasad


This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 18:25:13 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 15:25:13 -0700
Subject: len() on mutables vs. immutables
In-Reply-To: <CACoLFeSNciVJEtkDz28emirogBp+KivP_y5-uFt5x6QEzipHwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50803B2C.6010900@gmail.com> <k5phqe$2ia$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<50804DA8.80708@gmail.com>
	<CACoLFeSNciVJEtkDz28emirogBp+KivP_y5-uFt5x6QEzipHwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE+T62agRgQyczEP5fA-b-x_HmM6s5M=aFaX9R8jqbMNA-OzYQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Daniel Urban <urban.dani at gmail.com> wrote:
> The source is usually in Objects/*object.c (e.g., the source for list
> is in Objects/listobject.c, dict is in dictobject.c and so on). The
> implementation of __len__ is usually in a method called
> whatever_length (e.g., dict.__len__ is called dict_length). To be
> sure, you can check the PyTypeObject declaration for the type.
> Probably the tp_as_sequence or tp_as_mapping field contains the
> pointer to __len__ (sq_length or mp_length respectively). (You can
> also search for "lenfunc", which is the type of such functions.)

Many thanks for the details.


From nad at acm.org  Thu Oct 18 18:43:43 2012
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 15:43:43 -0700
Subject: pip fails to install packages on moutain loin (Mac OS 10.8.2)
References: <53b38fa2-ea8b-4225-bdf3-b9bcbde31743@o5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nad-594E80.15434318102012@news.gmane.org>

In article 
<53b38fa2-ea8b-4225-bdf3-b9bcbde31743 at o5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
 Peng Yu <pengyu.ut at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I installed Python using python-2.7.3-macosx10.6.dmg on my Mac OS
> 10.8.2.
> 
> When try to use pip to install packages, I get the following message.
> Then the installation fails.
> 
> gcc-4.2 not found, using clang instead
> 
> 
> I then create a link from /usr/bin/gcc to gcc-4.2. Then I run pip
> again, I get the following error message.
> 
> Does anybody have a solution to install python on Mac OS 10.8.2 so
> that packages can be installed with pip?
> 
>     /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/include/c++/4.2.1/exception:
> 42:28: error: bits/c++config.h: No such file or directory
>     In file included from /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/include/c+
> +/4.2.1/bits/stl_algobase.h:70,
>                      from /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/include/c+
> +/4.2.1/bits/char_traits.h:46,
>                      from /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/include/c+
> +/4.2.1/string:47,
>                      from /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/include/c+
> +/4.2.1/stdexcept:44,

One issue is that you are mixing compilers and SDKs.  Python 2.7.3 was 
released about the time Apple released Xcode 4.3 which fundamentally 
changed where SDKs are located.  Xcode 4 no longer uses /Developer at 
all, so what is there is likely left behind from 10.7 or earlier 
versions of Xcode.  Further, Xcode 4.5 which is the currently supported 
version on 10.8 does not include an SDK for 10.6.   2.7.3 does have 
support for using clang instead of the Xcode 3.2 gcc-4.2 it was built 
with.  This is untested but the simplest workaround if you are using 
Xcode 4.4 or 4.5.* may be to just remove (or at least rename) /Developer

    sudo mv /Developer /Developer-old

and make sure you have installed the Command Line Tools component of 
Xcode 4.* (Xcode -> Preferences).  If there is no directory at the 
original SDK path (/Developer/SDKs/MacoOSX10.6.sdk), I believe distutils 
will try to build without using an SDK, which may work. Also, you may 
need to define env variable CXX if you are building c++:

    export CXX=/usr/bin/g++
or export CXX=/usr/bin/clang++

The plan is for the next maintenance release of Python 2.7 to work 
better with current Xocde 4.x on 10.7 and 10.7, as the newly released 
Python 3.3.0 does.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From nad at acm.org  Thu Oct 18 18:46:17 2012
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 15:46:17 -0700
Subject: pip fails to install packages on moutain loin (Mac OS 10.8.2)
References: <53b38fa2-ea8b-4225-bdf3-b9bcbde31743@o5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671D3B6@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
Message-ID: <nad-8E69AF.15461718102012@news.gmane.org>

In article 
<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671D3B6 at SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
,
 "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com> wrote:
> I would install python+virtualenv+pip from MacPorts to keep
> it separate from the OS X system Python. MacPorts will take 
> care of everything for you as long as you have Xcode installed.	
> 
> `sudo ports install py27-pip`

Yes, that should be another viable option as all of the components 
should be built with the same version of the Xcode tool chain.  Also, 
some or all of the third-party packages may already be available as 
MacPorts ports.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From gheskett at wdtv.com  Thu Oct 18 18:53:47 2012
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (Gene Heskett)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 18:53:47 -0400
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <k5pf6a$185$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2449.1350575755.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5pf6a$185$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <201210181853.47151.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Thursday 18 October 2012 18:40:52 Grant Edwards did opine:

> On 2012-10-18, Den <patentsvnc at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 11:06:43 PM UTC-7, Zero Piraeus wrote:
> >> What are people's preferred strategies for dealing with lines that go
> > 
> >> over 79 characters? A few I can think of off the bat:
> > I personally just keep typing until my statement is finished.  This
> > is my program, not PEP's.
> > 
> > But I have to say I'm amused by the whole question, and others
> > related to PEP8.  A quick aside, the width of our roads all go back
> > to the width of a two horse rig.  The suggested maximum of 80
> > characters goes back to teletype machines, and IBM cards, and
> > character based terminals
> > 
> > Should that really be the basis for a suggested style now?
> 
> You don't expect me to through my Heathkit H19 terminal in the trash,
> do you?  :)

Or me to delete the vt-220 I wrote to run on a TRS-80 Color Computer 
running OS-9 for an OS, 20 years ago when the Dec made one ate its H.O.T. & 
Dec would not sell me a H.O.T. since it was over 5 years old and wanted 
$2995 for brand new vt-550 (with no guarantee it would be compatible)?

That, and their field service engineers inability to fix a crashing hourly 
or more PDP-11/723a amply explains why DEC is no longer with us.

That single obstinate computer made the CBS tv network design a new system 
and distribute it gratis to every network affiliate they had, somewhere 
around 125 stations, at a cost of at least 10G's a station.

Screw that.  I had better things to than throw more good money after bad.
So did CBS at the time.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene> is up!
How sharper than a hound's tooth it is to have a thankless serpent.


From zhushenli at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 20:08:37 2012
From: zhushenli at gmail.com (David)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:08:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Add if...else...  switch to doctest?
Message-ID: <c500a76c-3e6b-4dfc-97ca-8b24f0628620@googlegroups.com>

Hello, how to add if...else... switch to doctest?
E.g. function outputs different value when global_var change.

"""
if (global_var == True):
>>> function()
[1,2]
else:
>>> function()
[1,2,3]
"""

Thank you very much.


From btemperton at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 20:13:47 2012
From: btemperton at gmail.com (Ben Temperton)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:13:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: When to clear elements using cElementTree
Message-ID: <42218808-a465-4dd6-b8e6-104c9be6891b@googlegroups.com>

Hi there, I am parsing some huge xml files (1.8 Gb) that look like this:
<scan num='1'>
    <peaks>some data</peaks>
    <scan num='2'>
        <peaks>some data</peaks>
    </scan>
    <scan num='3'>
        <peaks>some data</peaks>
    </scan>
</scan>

What I am trying to do is build up a dictionary of lists where the key is the parent scan num and the members of the list are the child scan nums.

I have created an iterator:

for event, elem in cElementTree.iterparse(filename):
    if elem.tag == self.XML_SPACE + "scan":
        parentId = int(elem.get('num'))
        for child in elem.findall(self.XML_SPACE +'scan'):
            try:
                indexes = scans[parentId]
            except KeyError:
                 indexes = []
                 scans[parentId] = indexes
             childId = int(child.get('num'))
             indexes.append(childId)
            # choice 1 - child.clear()
       #choice 2 - elem.clear()
    #choice 3 - elem.clear()

If I don't use any of the clear functions, the method works fine, but is very slow (presumably because nothing is getting cleared from memory. But, if I implement any of the clear functions shown, then 

childId = int(child.get('num'))

fails because child.get('num') returns a NoneType. If you dump the child element using cElementTree.dump(child), all of the attributes on the child scans are missing, even though the clear() calls are made after the assignment of the childId.

What I don't understand is why, given the calls are made after assignment, that the assignment then fails, but succeeds when clear() is not called.

When should I be calling clear() in this case to maximize speed?

Many thanks,

Ben





From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Oct 18 20:26:37 2012
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 11:26:37 +1100
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <CANaSqUfLX7V2OxhO+fdVtmQcDzNfEgQfutHak_G-9_1_4nNr1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7wlif3johu.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Zero Piraeus <schesis at gmail.com> writes:

> :
>

(Why is this colon appearing at the top of your messages? Can you remove
it if it's not germane?)

> What are people's preferred strategies for dealing with lines that go
> over 79 characters? A few I can think of off the bat:

> 1. Say "screw it" and go past 79, PEP8 be damned.

There are many people who are irritated by Python code that has lines
longer than 80 characters. In my experience, though, it's much easier to
read code which is written using a strict maximum length of 80
characters per line, and code which tends to exceed that length is
strongly correlated with code which is difficult to read for other
reasons too.

> 2. Say "screw it" and break the line using a backslash.

Never this. A backslash is almost never a good choice (it leaves the
code in a state that an invisible difference ? trailing whitespace ? can
cause it to break), especially because there are so many other better
options.

> 3. Say "well, at least it's not a backslash" and break the line using
> parentheses.

Long lines frequently have some kind of bracketing syntax (parentheses,
brackets, braces, triple-quotes, etc.) which make it easy to break the
line properly. That's a natural place to break the line, and the
continuations should all be indented 8 characters (recommended in PEP 8
also).

> 4. Spend 45 minutes trying to think up shorter [but still sensible]
> variable names to make it fit.

If the names are so long that they make it difficult to fit the line
within 80 characters, one of the following is probably true:

* The line is indented too far. Re-factor the chunk of code to a smaller
  function.

* The line is too complex. Break it into several smaller statements.

* The names are too long. Make them descriptive, but not huge. In a
  simple function (which all of them should ideally be) there should be
  few enough names involved that they can all be short. Corollary: if
  the names are too long, the function is probably too dependent on a
  large context.

> 5. Perform an otherwise pointless assignment to a temp variable on the
> previous line to make it fit.

Using assignments for intermediate steps is not pointless. One
significant benefit is that it makes the code more obvious to the
reader.

> 6. Realise that if it's that long, it probably shouldn't have been a
> list comprehension in the first place.

List comprehensions are already within bracketing syntax, so are
trivially easy to break across multiple lines.

> Any I've missed? Any preferences?

I prefer continuation lines to look like this::

    def prepare_smorgasbord(
            smorgasbord_class, poultry, food_preparation_handbook):
        """ Prepare the smorgasbord with poultry.

            The `food_preparation_handbook` is used to cite a warning if
            a gizzard is past its expiration date.

            """
    smorgasbord = smorgasbord_class()
    for item in [
            foo for foo in
            poultry.giblets.iteritems()
            if foo.type = 'gizzard']:
        smorgasbord.add(
                prepare_gizzard_for_consumption(item))
        if item.expiry < datetime.datetime.now():
            smorgasbord.flag(
                    food_preparation_handbook.warning("Only for the brave"))

    return smorgasbord

Every statement should stay beyond the starting level of indentation;
returning to the same level of indentation or earlier should only happen
when a new statement occurs.

The 8-column indentation makes it clear that this is not a new code
block, making it obvious to the eye where a code block (indented at 4
columns) actually starts.

That's a contrived example, obviously, and for some of those things I'd
probably be tempted to re-factor self-contained parts to separate
functions in order to make the code at this location simpler. But it
illustrates the line continuation style I advocate.

-- 
 \            ?Program testing can be a very effective way to show the |
  `\        presence of bugs, but is hopelessly inadequate for showing |
_o__)                              their absence.? ?Edsger W. Dijkstra |
Ben Finney



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Oct 18 20:33:55 2012
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 11:33:55 +1100
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507fa256$0$11093$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<507fc6b4$0$6861$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <7whaprjo5o.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Hans Mulder <hansmu at xs4all.nl> writes:

> On 18/10/12 08:31:51, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > some_variable = spam('x') + ham(
> >                     some_longer_variables, here_and_here, 
> >                     and_here_also)

The indentation level for continuation lines shouldn't be dependent on
the content of the first line of the statement. That leads to either
pointless fiddling with the continuation lines when one line changes; or
to a large indentation which is also pointless because it no longer
matches the first line.

> I would spell that as:
>
> some_variable = spam('x') + ham(
>     some_longer_variables,
>     here_and_here,
>     and_here_also,
> )

I dislike the indentation of the final line, because it pops out like
the start of a new statement. Either::

    some_variable = spam('x') + ham(
            some_longer_variables,
            here_and_here,
            and_here_also)
    do_next_thing()

Or::

    some_variable = spam('x') + ham(
            some_longer_variables,
            here_and_here,
            and_here_also,
            )
    do_next_thing()

depending on whether I deem it likely that new items will later be added
within the parentheses.

> > I know PEP 8 says I should drop the final round bracket to the next
> > line, but I don't normally like that.
>
> I normally put the final bracket on the next line, where it is
> very visible.  Compare:
>
> if looks_like_it_might_be_spam(
>     some_longer_variables,
>     here_and_here, and_here_also):
>     logger.notice("might be spam")
>     move_to_spam_folder(some_longer_variables)
>     update_spam_statistics(here_and_here)

To avoid this problem, I advocate 8-column indentation for continuation lines
to contrast with the 4-column indentation for a code block::

    if looks_like_it_might_be_spam(
            some_longer_variables,
            here_and_here, and_here_also):
        logger.notice("might be spam")
        move_to_spam_folder(some_longer_variables)
        update_spam_statistics(here_and_here)

>
> vs.
>
> if looks_like_it_might_be_spam(
>     some_longer_variables,
>     here_and_here,
>     and_here_also,
> ):
>     logger.notice("might be spam")
>     move_to_spam_folder(some_longer_variables)
>     update_spam_statistics(here_and_here)
>
> Which one would you say is more readable?

Mine :-)

-- 
 \       ?When I get new information, I change my position. What, sir, |
  `\             do you do with new information?? ?John Maynard Keynes |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Oct 18 20:39:41 2012
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 11:39:41 +1100
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <k5ovel$3t8$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<153569467.1651735.1350568758155.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <7wd30fjnw2.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> writes:

> The 79 char limit purpose is to allow someone to read the code on a 80
> char terminal (and allow old printers to print the code).

There is a very good reason for a strict line width limit regardless of
terminal size: scanning long lines is cognitively more difficult than
scanning shorter lines.

This doesn't mean we should keep reducing the length of our lines, of
course; obviously there needs to be enough room on a line to be
expressive. But it does mean that lines which are too long are not kind
to the reader.

Another good reason: Even if you have a large terminal, you will often
need to compare distinct sections of code. Knowing that code won't
exceed 80 columns means that you can lay several windows of code
side-by-side, for a three-way merge, for example.

-- 
 \      ?Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a |
  `\        finite world is either a madman or an economist.? ?Kenneth |
_o__)                                                         Boulding |
Ben Finney



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct 18 21:20:31 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Oct 2012 01:20:31 GMT
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <CANaSqUfLX7V2OxhO+fdVtmQcDzNfEgQfutHak_G-9_1_4nNr1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<50802B5B.6040902@cs.wisc.edu>
	<CAPTjJmqGmYHD7vTdWdSq-Ro4ZCv2z=3zea92iahy-7Qx4=NoOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2454.1350578890.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5080aadf$0$29971$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:47:48 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:

> I never use the backslash at end-of-line to continue a statement to the
> next.  Not only is it a readability problem, but if your editor doesn't
> have visible spaces, you can accidentally have whitespace after the
> backslash, and wonder what went wrong.

What, you don't read the SyntaxError that you will invariably get?


# Python 2.7 and 3.3:

py> x = 42 + \
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    x = 42 + \
              ^
SyntaxError: unexpected character after line continuation character



Even if you go back to truly ancient Python 1.5:

[steve at ando ~]$ python1.5
Python 1.5.2 (#1, Aug 27 2012, 09:09:18)  [GCC 4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 
4.1.2-52)] on linux2
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>> x = 42 + \
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    x = 42 + \
              ^
SyntaxError: invalid token


Honestly, it's not that hard to diagnose line continuation errors. It's 
probably easier to diagnose them than to diagnose missing parentheses.

The more I hear people dissing line continuation backslashes, the more I 
want to use them everywhere.


-- 
Steven


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Oct 18 21:26:45 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 21:26:45 -0400
Subject: len() on mutables vs. immutables
In-Reply-To: <50804DA8.80708@gmail.com>
References: <50803B2C.6010900@gmail.com> <k5phqe$2ia$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<50804DA8.80708@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5qa8u$bb5$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/18/2012 2:42 PM, Demian Brecht wrote:

> Awesome. Pretty much what I figured. Of course, I'll have to dig around
> the source just to confirm this with my own eyes (more just curiosity
> than anything),

If you do, please followup with a report.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Oct 18 21:27:08 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 21:27:08 -0400
Subject: len() on mutables vs. immutables
In-Reply-To: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671D06A@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
References: <50803B2C.6010900@gmail.com> <k5phqe$2ia$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671D06A@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
Message-ID: <k5qa9k$bb5$2@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/18/2012 3:18 PM, Prasad, Ramit wrote:
> Terry Reedy wrote:
>> On 10/18/2012 1:23 PM, Demian Brecht wrote:
>>
>>> When len() is called passing an immutable built-in type (such as a
>>> string), I'd assume that the overhead in doing so is simply a function
>>> call and there are no on-call calculations done. Is that correct?
>>
>> See below.
>>
>>> I'd also assume that mutable built-in types (such as a bytearray) would
>>> cache their size internally as a side effect of mutation operations. Is
>>
>> Or the length could be the difference of two pointers -- address of the
>> first empty slot minus address of first item.
>>
>>> that correct? If so, is it safe to assume that at least all built-in
>>> types observe this behavior,
>>
>> str, bytes, bytearrays, arrays, sets, frozensets, dicts, dictviews, and
>> ranges should all return len in O(1) time. That includes the possibility
>> of a subtraction as indicated above.
>>
>
> Why does pointer arithmetic work for dicts?

It would only possibly be for lists, bytearrays, and, array module 
arrays.They are all over-allocated and need pointer to beginning, and 
either len or pointers to current end and allocated end. The current 
authoritative answer is in the current code itself.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Oct 18 21:29:25 2012
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 12:29:25 +1100
Subject: Add if...else...  switch to doctest?
References: <c500a76c-3e6b-4dfc-97ca-8b24f0628620@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7w7gqnjll6.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

David <zhushenli at gmail.com> writes:

> Hello, how to add if...else... switch to doctest?
> E.g. function outputs different value when global_var change.
>
> """
> if (global_var == True):
> >>> function()
> [1,2]
> else:
> >>> function()
> [1,2,3]
> """
>
> Thank you very much.

You write the code in a doctest as it would appear at a standard Python
interactive prompt.

    >>> if global_thing:
    ...     foo()
    [1, 2]

But you need it to be deterministic, so that the output *always*
matches what your docstring declares.

So if you want the result to depend on some state, you need to ensure
that state in your test.

    >>> global_thing = True
    >>> foo()
    [1, 2]
    >>> global_thing = False
    >>> foo()
    [1, 2, 3]

Because this is gnarly, it's yet another reason not to depend so much on
globals. Instead, change the function so its state is passed in
explicitly::

    >>> foo(bar=True)
    [1, 2]
    >>> foo(bar=False)
    [1, 2, 3]

Once your functions and tests get complex, you should be using a more
sophisticated testing framework. Don't put complex tests in your
documentation. Instead, put *examples* for readers in the documentation,
and use doctest to test your documentation.

Doctest is for testing explanatory code examples. For more thorough
testing, don't use doctests. Use unit tests with ?unittests?, feature
tests with Behave <URL:http://pypi.python.org/pypi/behave> or something
similar.

-- 
 \      ?I tell you the truth: this generation will certainly not pass |
  `\           away until all these things [the end of the world] have |
_o__)   happened.? ?Jesus Christ, c. 30 CE, as quoted in Matthew 24:34 |
Ben Finney



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Oct 18 21:31:19 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 21:31:19 -0400
Subject: Add if...else...  switch to doctest?
In-Reply-To: <c500a76c-3e6b-4dfc-97ca-8b24f0628620@googlegroups.com>
References: <c500a76c-3e6b-4dfc-97ca-8b24f0628620@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k5qahg$d1b$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/18/2012 8:08 PM, David wrote:
> Hello, how to add if...else... switch to doctest?
> E.g. function outputs different value when global_var change.
>
> """
> if (global_var == True):
>>>> function()
> [1,2]
> else:
>>>> function()
> [1,2,3]
> """

doctests should/must be self contained. IE, you would have to set the 
'global_var' in the doctext code itself.

 >>> def function():
...   if global_var: return [1,2]
...   else: return [1,2,3]
 >>> global_var = True
 >>>function()
[1,2]
 >>> global_var = False
 >>> function()
[1,2,3]

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct 18 21:34:07 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Oct 2012 01:34:07 GMT
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2433.1350568745.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5080ae0e$0$29985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 15:59:18 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
>> On 2012-10-18, Zero Piraeus <schesis at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> > What are people's preferred strategies for dealing with lines that go
>> > over 79 characters? A few I can think of off the bat:
>> 
>> I try to do what's easiest to read and understand.  Sometimes that
>> means using a line thats 120 characters long, sometimes that means
>> breaking up the line.
>>
>>
> Imo, def. a good approach to the problem. Mark's also pointed the fact
> that the guidelines themselves state that rules are made to be broken
> when they need to be. The 79 char limit purpose is to allow someone to
> read the code on a 80 char terminal (and allow old printers to print the
> code). 

And people who like to have multiple windows open side-by-side.

And people who may have some need to email or post code inline rather 
than as attached files (say, on this list).

And people who may need to run external tools over their code (e.g. grep, 
diff) and view the output in a terminal with, say, 120 character width. 
This allows ~80 characters for the source and ~40 characters for whatever 
extraneous information the tool displays on the same line.

And, quite frankly, people who care more about the readability of their 
code than about squeezing in as much processing into a single line of 
text as possible.

In my not-in-the-slightest-bit-humble opinion, if someone is consistently 
needing more than 79 characters per line, they're probably doing one or 
more of the following coding sins:

- using one-liners for the sake of one liners;
- code that is too deeply nested (if you need more than 3 or 4 indents
  for a block, you're probably doing something wrong);
- doing too much in one line, e.g. overly busy list comps;
- excessively long variable or function names;
- badly designed functions or classes that take too many arguments;
- misuse of Hungarian Notation; and
- violations of the Law of Demeter.

Or possibly they're just unlucky to require a library with excessively 
long names and can't do much about it.

I'm not saying that every line that exceeds 79 characters is crap, but I 
am saying that if you have trouble keeping *at least* 90% of your code 
under 79 characters, you may very well be suffering from poor design, 
lousy code, or both.

Flame away :)



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct 18 21:50:15 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Oct 2012 01:50:15 GMT
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<90210f1e-c77c-4ac2-af68-2b598f0264c4@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2476.1350596242.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5080b1d7$0$29985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:36:57 -0400, Zero Piraeus wrote:

> The accepted rule in print is that lines of prose should be between 45
> and 90 characters, with 66 being ideal for readability. Code is not
> prose, and the combination of fixed-width and much more variable line
> length aids readability, but however it came about, ~80 does seem to
> more or less work as a limit.

On the other hand, code is typically *much* harder to understand than 
normal prose.

On the third hand, the "chunks" of semantic meaning in code is 
significantly greater -- you can often ignore 99% of the code and just 
skim past it, and so not even notice long line lengths until you get to 
the specific few lines you care about. But once you reach the lines you 
care about, or *might* care about, horizontal space is costly and 
vertical space is cheap.

So reading code often has two distinct phases: skim and inspect. When 
skimming, vertical space is at a premium, and you want to fit as much 
code as possible in as few lines as possible. When inspecting code 
closely, you want to fit as little code as practical in each line. So 
there's a trade-off.

But for anything but the most horribly obfuscated code, it is much easier 
to identify bits of code that are irrelevant to your problem than to 
identify which bit of code is specifically causing the bug. So skimming 
is inherently easier than close study (well duh). Consequently it is wise 
to optimise your code layout for the hard parts, not the easy parts, and 
so you should treat vertical space is cheaper than horizontal space, and 
try to keep your line length down.

And note that, even when writing, most of your time is problem spent in 
writing what is already there. Coding is rarely like typing out dictation.


-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct 18 21:57:37 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Oct 2012 01:57:37 GMT
Subject: Add if...else...  switch to doctest?
References: <c500a76c-3e6b-4dfc-97ca-8b24f0628620@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5080b391$0$29985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:08:37 -0700, David wrote:

> Hello, how to add if...else... switch to doctest? 

Step 1): 

Write your doctest with the switch. Don't forget to test both branches:


    >>> global_var = True
    >>> if global_var:
    ...     function()
    ... else:
    ...     function()
    [1, 2]

    >>> global_var = False
    >>> if global_var:
    ...     function()
    ... else:
    ...     function()
    [1, 2, 3]


Step 2): realise that this is a stupid thing to do, and re-write the 
doctest without the if test:

    >>> global_var = True
    >>> function()
    [1, 2]
    >>> global_var = False
    >>> function()
    [1, 2, 3]


Step 3): realise that this is a stupid design for a function, you're not 
writing BASIC in 1976, and global variables are harmful. Redesign the 
function to take an argument and re-write the doctest:

    >>> function(True)
    [1, 2]
    >>> function(False)
    [1, 2, 3]


And now you have good code and a good doctest.




-- 
Steven


From d at davea.name  Thu Oct 18 22:00:55 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 22:00:55 -0400
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <5080aadf$0$29971$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CANaSqUfLX7V2OxhO+fdVtmQcDzNfEgQfutHak_G-9_1_4nNr1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<50802B5B.6040902@cs.wisc.edu>
	<CAPTjJmqGmYHD7vTdWdSq-Ro4ZCv2z=3zea92iahy-7Qx4=NoOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2454.1350578890.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5080aadf$0$29971$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <5080B457.9010501@davea.name>

On 10/18/2012 09:20 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:47:48 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:
>
>> I never use the backslash at end-of-line to continue a statement to the
>> next.  Not only is it a readability problem, but if your editor doesn't
>> have visible spaces, you can accidentally have whitespace after the
>> backslash, and wonder what went wrong.
> What, you don't read the SyntaxError that you will invariably get?
>
>
> # Python 2.7 and 3.3:
>
> py> x = 42 + \
>   File "<stdin>", line 1
>     x = 42 + \
>               ^
> SyntaxError: unexpected character after line continuation character
>
>
>
> Even if you go back to truly ancient Python 1.5:
>
> [steve at ando ~]$ python1.5
> Python 1.5.2 (#1, Aug 27 2012, 09:09:18)  [GCC 4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 
> 4.1.2-52)] on linux2
> Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>>> x = 42 + \
>   File "<stdin>", line 1
>     x = 42 + \
>               ^
> SyntaxError: invalid token
>
>
> Honestly, it's not that hard to diagnose line continuation errors. It's 
> probably easier to diagnose them than to diagnose missing parentheses.
>
> The more I hear people dissing line continuation backslashes, the more I 
> want to use them everywhere.

The context was both C++ and python, and I got into the habit of
avoiding the continuation characters in C++, where the compiler usually
has a totally stupid error, if any.

it's been so long since I've used them, it's quite possible I never
tried it in python.


-- 

DaveA



From pengyu.ut at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 22:30:24 2012
From: pengyu.ut at gmail.com (Peng Yu)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 21:30:24 -0500
Subject: How to access the document for __call__ from command line?
Message-ID: <CABrM6wmHbfB9=UTATEfx5zKaOO=yxp4UBHVVJDnJG4bdWLSqTA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

reference.pdf from python document has the following description. It
is not accessible from help() in the command line. Is there an
alternative so that I can quickly access these class attributes or
method names from the command line?

object.__call__(self [, args... ])
Called when the instance is ?called? as a function; if this method is
defined, x(arg1, arg2, ...) is a
shorthand for x.__call__(arg1, arg2, ...).

-- 
Regards,
Peng


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Oct 18 22:59:13 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 22:59:13 -0400
Subject: How to access the document for __call__ from command line?
In-Reply-To: <CABrM6wmHbfB9=UTATEfx5zKaOO=yxp4UBHVVJDnJG4bdWLSqTA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABrM6wmHbfB9=UTATEfx5zKaOO=yxp4UBHVVJDnJG4bdWLSqTA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5qfma$g6l$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/18/2012 10:30 PM, Peng Yu wrote:
> Hi,
>
> reference.pdf from python document has the following description. It
> is not accessible from help() in the command line. Is there an
> alternative so that I can quickly access these class attributes or
> method names from the command line?
>
> object.__call__(self [, args... ])
> Called when the instance is ?called? as a function; if this method is
> defined, x(arg1, arg2, ...) is a
> shorthand for x.__call__(arg1, arg2, ...).

 >>> help(object.__call__)
Help on method-wrapper object:

__call__ = class method-wrapper(object)
  |  Methods defined here:
  |
  |  __call__(...)
  |      x.__call__(...) <==> x(...)
  |
snip not very helpful stuff

For a user class with a __call__ method with a docstring

 >>> class C:
	def __call__(self, x):
		"return the difference between self and x"
		return self-x

 >>> help(C.__call__)
Help on function __call__ in module __main__:

__call__(self, x)
     return the difference between self and x

Similarly for builtin methods you actually need to know about

 >>> help(list.append)
Help on method_descriptor:

append(...)
     L.append(object) -> None -- append object to end



-- 
Terry Jan Reedy




From rustompmody at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 23:35:20 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 20:35:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507fa256$0$11093$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<507fc6b4$0$6861$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.2484.1350606851.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f6dc51ab-b4b8-43df-b474-908b0375b564@i2g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>

> ?\ ? ? ? ?When I get new information, I change my position. What, sir, |
> ? `\ ? ? ? ? ? ? do you do with new information?? ?John Maynard Keynes |
> _o__) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?|

>  \      ?Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a |
>   `\        finite world is either a madman or an economist.? ?Kenneth |
> _o__)                                                         Boulding |

I am amused by the juxtaposition of these two signatures --
considering that Keynes was an economist


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 23:58:51 2012
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 20:58:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Testing against multiple versions of Python
Message-ID: <a9ec0dca-4ba8-4887-b65f-359898576795@googlegroups.com>

Yesterday I released a new version of the decorator module. It should run under Python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, 3.0, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3. I did not have the will to install on my machine 8 different versions of Python, so I just tested it with Python 2.7 and 3.3. But I do not feel happy with that. Is there any kind of service where a package author can send a pre-release version of her package and have its tests run againsts a set of different Python versions?
I seem to remember somebody talking about a service like that years ago but I don't remembers. I do not see anything on PyPI. Any advice is welcome!

 Michele Simionato
       



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Oct 19 00:08:32 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Oct 2012 04:08:32 GMT
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<507fa256$0$11093$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<507fc6b4$0$6861$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.2484.1350606851.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<f6dc51ab-b4b8-43df-b474-908b0375b564@i2g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5080d240$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 20:35:20 -0700, rusi wrote:
(extracting the text without the ASCII-art)

> > ?When I get new information, I change my position. What, sir,
> > do you do with new information?? ?John Maynard Keynes

> > ?Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a
> > finite world is either a madman or an economist.? ?Kenneth Boulding
> 
> I am amused by the juxtaposition of these two signatures --
> considering that Keynes was an economist


So was Kenneth Boulding.


http://www.adbusters.org/magazine/85/kenneth-boulding.html


I dare say that Keynes, and Adam Smith for that matter, would have agreed 
with him.




-- 
Steven


From chip9munk at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 02:05:48 2012
From: chip9munk at gmail.com (chip9munk at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 23:05:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python scripts for web
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2475.1350594610.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <98b7e362-14fd-4721-84c8-ae1bc11febac@googlegroups.com>
	<CANaSqUeAJv3u4EqBymifyKZHey1YohU=O73niTpzYOvZgSV3TQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2409.1350547078.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e10b4aba-a725-46c4-aaa9-0035a099a9bf@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2412.1350549775.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<809c86c5-26a0-4f4a-bce7-ad8f63efa763@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2419.1350554581.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<866debf5-4b07-4b93-b785-442b1b14e2e5@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2475.1350594610.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <001d1ee0-80d6-44f8-aa38-85d8e18f925b@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 11:10:45 PM UTC+2, Zero Piraeus wrote:
> WSGI would enable you to write a persistent application that sits
> around waiting for requests and returns responses for them as and
> when, as opposed to a simple CGI script that gets started each time a
> request comes in, and terminates once it's returned the response.

ok I see, you have made it very clear for me now!
 
> So it's really about startup time - if your scripts are just doing
> something simple and quick, WSGI is likely overkill.

these scripts will do a lot of calculation on a big dataset, and it is possible that there will be many requests in a short period of time.
So I guess the WSGI is a better solution.

Thank you and the others very much, you have saved me a lot of time!

Cheers! 




From andriy.kornatskyy at live.com  Fri Oct 19 04:34:41 2012
From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com (Andriy Kornatskyy)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 11:34:41 +0300
Subject: Fastest template engine
In-Reply-To: <DUB117-W100D5C987F23C2458BD5271919C0@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB117-W61FFFFB17826AE69188FF919F0@phx.gbl>,
	<DUB117-W100D5C987F23C2458BD5271919C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <DUB117-W67AA9A434F18303C3E93D691750@phx.gbl>


Per community request cheetah has been added to benchmark. Post updated, just in case:

http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/07/python-fastest-template.html

Comments or suggestions are welcome.

Andriy


----------------------------------------
> From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: RE: Fastest template engine
> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 16:21:21 +0300
>
>
> The post has been updated with the following template engines added (per community request):
>
> 1. chameleon
> 2. django
> 3. web2py
>
> Here is a link:
>
> http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/07/python-fastest-template.html
>
> Comments or suggestions are welcome.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Andriy
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
> > From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com
> > To: python-list at python.org
> > Subject: Fastest template engine
> > Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 12:24:36 +0300
> >
> >
> > I have run recently a benchmark of a trivial 'big table' example for various python template engines (jinja2, mako, tenjin, tornado and wheezy.template) run on cpython2.7 and pypy1.9...... you might find it interesting:
> >
> > http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/07/python-fastest-template.html
> >
> > Comments or suggestions are welcome.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Andriy Kornatskyy
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
 		 	   		  

From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Oct 19 04:34:59 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 09:34:59 +0100
Subject: Python interactive help()
Message-ID: <k5r3ai$jt$1@ger.gmane.org>

Good morning/afternoon/evening all,

Where is this specific usage documented as my search engine skills have 
let me down?  By this I mean entering help() without parameters to get 
the following output and then the help> prompt.

C:\Users\Mark\workspace\CrossCode>py -3
Python 3.3.0 (v3.3.0:bd8afb90ebf2, Sep 29 2012, 10:55:48) [MSC v.1600 32 
bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> help()

Welcome to Python 3.3!  This is the interactive help utility.

If this is your first time using Python, you should definitely check out
the tutorial on the Internet at http://docs.python.org/3.3/tutorial/.

Enter the name of any module, keyword, or topic to get help on writing
Python programs and using Python modules.  To quit this help utility and
return to the interpreter, just type "quit".

To get a list of available modules, keywords, or topics, type "modules",
"keywords", or "topics".  Each module also comes with a one-line summary
of what it does; to list the modules whose summaries contain a given 
word such as "spam", type "modules spam".

help>

Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.
-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From insideshoes at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 04:40:40 2012
From: insideshoes at gmail.com (inshu chauhan)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 10:40:40 +0200
Subject: pls help me with this prog
Message-ID: <CAFqGZRHxn_-g0tozcHSGv6EXPReMgdLCQiZjYYZa6EB4xFiNhg@mail.gmail.com>

in this prog I have written a code to calculate teh centre of a given 3D data..

but i want to calculate it for every 3 points not the whole data, but
instead of giving me centre for every 3 data the prog is printing the
centre 3 times...

import cv
from math import floor, sqrt, ceil
from numpy import array, dot, subtract, add, linalg as lin




def CalcCentre(data):
    centre = array([0,0,0])
    count = 0
    n = 0
    for p in data[n:n+3]:
        centre = add(centre, array(p[:3]))
        count += 1
        centre = dot(1./count, centre)
        return centre
    n += 1
def ReadPointCloud(filename):
    f = open(filename)
    result = []
    for l in f:
        sp = l.split()
        t = tuple(map(float, sp[1:4]))
        result.append(t)
    return result

def main (data):


    j = 0
    for  i in data[:3]:
        while j != 3:
         centre = CalcCentre(data)
         j += 1
         print centre


if __name__ == '__main__':
    data = ReadPointCloud(r'Z:\data\NEHreflectance_Scanner 1_part.txt')

main(data)




PLS HELP ;;;;


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 04:47:27 2012
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (andrea crotti)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 09:47:27 +0100
Subject: Testing against multiple versions of Python
In-Reply-To: <a9ec0dca-4ba8-4887-b65f-359898576795@googlegroups.com>
References: <a9ec0dca-4ba8-4887-b65f-359898576795@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAF_E5JaGaGFhe15CgKu7mX4qr6wbKW_RG-aVGN1g=S-AUhyK9A@mail.gmail.com>

2012/10/19 Michele Simionato <michele.simionato at gmail.com>:
> Yesterday I released a new version of the decorator module. It should run under Python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, 3.0, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3. I did not have the will to install on my machine 8 different versions of Python, so I just tested it with Python 2.7 and 3.3. But I do not feel happy with that. Is there any kind of service where a package author can send a pre-release version of her package and have its tests run againsts a set of different Python versions?
> I seem to remember somebody talking about a service like that years ago but I don't remembers. I do not see anything on PyPI. Any advice is welcome!
>
>  Michele Simionato
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Travis on github maybe is what you want?


From lothiraldan at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 04:50:00 2012
From: lothiraldan at gmail.com (Boris FELD)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 10:50:00 +0200
Subject: Testing against multiple versions of Python
In-Reply-To: <CAF_E5JaGaGFhe15CgKu7mX4qr6wbKW_RG-aVGN1g=S-AUhyK9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9ec0dca-4ba8-4887-b65f-359898576795@googlegroups.com>
	<CAF_E5JaGaGFhe15CgKu7mX4qr6wbKW_RG-aVGN1g=S-AUhyK9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPYZrkAudZq3HN-q+=vf=b0tQHx5h_aMRWc1JVGB-SPv7=CJnw@mail.gmail.com>

Did you take a look at https://www.shiningpanda-ci.com/?

2012/10/19 andrea crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com>:
> 2012/10/19 Michele Simionato <michele.simionato at gmail.com>:
>> Yesterday I released a new version of the decorator module. It should run under Python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, 3.0, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3. I did not have the will to install on my machine 8 different versions of Python, so I just tested it with Python 2.7 and 3.3. But I do not feel happy with that. Is there any kind of service where a package author can send a pre-release version of her package and have its tests run againsts a set of different Python versions?
>> I seem to remember somebody talking about a service like that years ago but I don't remembers. I do not see anything on PyPI. Any advice is welcome!
>>
>>  Michele Simionato
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> Travis on github maybe is what you want?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Fri Oct 19 04:56:02 2012
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 19 Oct 2012 08:56:02 GMT
Subject: Python interactive help()
References: <mailman.2493.1350635687.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <XnsA0F165099333Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Good morning/afternoon/evening all,
> 
> Where is this specific usage documented as my search engine skills have 
> let me down?  By this I mean entering help() without parameters to get 
> the following output and then the help> prompt.
> 
It is documented under 'built-in functions'.

http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#help


-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Oct 19 04:59:59 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 10:59:59 +0200
Subject: Python interactive help()
References: <k5r3ai$jt$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <k5r4qc$ddn$1@ger.gmane.org>

Mark Lawrence wrote:

> Where is this specific usage documented as my search engine skills have
> let me down?  

find and grep ftw.

> By this I mean entering help() without parameters to get
> the following output and then the help> prompt.

http://docs.python.org/dev/py3k/library/functions.html#help

"""
help([object])
Invoke the built-in help system. (This function is intended for interactive 
use.) If no argument is given, the interactive help system starts on the 
interpreter console. If the argument is a string, then the string is looked 
up as the name of a module, function, class, method, keyword, or 
documentation topic, and a help page is printed on the console. If the 
argument is any other kind of object, a help page on the object is 
generated.
"""



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Oct 19 05:09:21 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 10:09:21 +0100
Subject: Python interactive help()
In-Reply-To: <XnsA0F165099333Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
References: <mailman.2493.1350635687.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<XnsA0F165099333Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <k5r56d$fvv$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 19/10/2012 09:56, Duncan Booth wrote:
> Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Good morning/afternoon/evening all,
>>
>> Where is this specific usage documented as my search engine skills have
>> let me down?  By this I mean entering help() without parameters to get
>> the following output and then the help> prompt.
>>
> It is documented under 'built-in functions'.
>
> http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#help
>
>

Well Foxtrot Mike :-)  Thanks for the fast response.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From capt-obvious at yandex.ru  Fri Oct 19 05:15:45 2012
From: capt-obvious at yandex.ru (Paul Volkov)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:15:45 +0400
Subject: error executing "import html.parser" from a script
Message-ID: <CAK38ikS1=Ea6+8bX50R5YScADcLBaqePJA43QNMFevAezYxr=g@mail.gmail.com>

What is this madness?
I have Python 3.3.0 installed on Windows XP. I do not have Python 2
(but I had it before). I do the following steps:

1. Import from an interactive session (no problems)

>python
Python 3.3.0 (v3.3.0:bd8afb90ebf2, Sep 29 2012, 10:55:48) [MSC v.1600
32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import html
>>> import html.parser
>>> ^Z

2. Import from command line (no problems)

>python -c "import html.parser"

3. Import from a script. The script contains only one import line.
Everything else is commented out.

>python e:\tmp\pyt\html.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<frozen importlib._bootstrap>", line 1512, in _find_and_load_unlocked
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute '__path__'

During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "e:\tmp\pyt\html.py", line 7, in <module>
    import html.parser
  File "e:\tmp\pyt\html.py", line 7, in <module>
    import html.parser
ImportError: No module named 'html.parser'; html is not a package

4. And then I tried to print sys.path from my script by modifying it this way:
import sys
print (sys.path)
import html.parser

And the result is: (I don't know why sys.path is printed twice)

>python e:\tmp\pyt/html.py
['e:\\tmp\\pyt', 'D:\\WINDOWS\\system32\\python33.zip',
'D:\\Python33\\DLLs', 'D:\\Python33\\lib', '
D:\\Python33', 'D:\\Python33\\lib\\site-packages']
['e:\\tmp\\pyt', 'D:\\WINDOWS\\system32\\python33.zip',
'D:\\Python33\\DLLs', 'D:\\Python33\\lib', '
D:\\Python33', 'D:\\Python33\\lib\\site-packages']
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<frozen importlib._bootstrap>", line 1512, in _find_and_load_unlocked
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute '__path__'

During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "e:\tmp\pyt/html.py", line 8, in <module>
    import html.parser
  File "e:\tmp\pyt\html.py", line 8, in <module>
    import html.parser
ImportError: No module named 'html.parser'; html is not a package


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Fri Oct 19 05:17:26 2012
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 19 Oct 2012 09:17:26 GMT
Subject: Testing against multiple versions of Python
References: <a9ec0dca-4ba8-4887-b65f-359898576795@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <XnsA0F1679ECADCAduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Michele Simionato <michele.simionato at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yesterday I released a new version of the decorator module. It should
> run under Python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, 3.0, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3. I did not
> have the will to install on my machine 8 different versions of Python,
> so I just tested it with Python 2.7 and 3.3. But I do not feel happy
> with that. Is there any kind of service where a package author can
> send a pre-release version of her package and have its tests run
> againsts a set of different Python versions? I seem to remember
> somebody talking about a service like that years ago but I don't
> remembers. I do not see anything on PyPI. Any advice is welcome! 
> 
Not exactly what you asked for, but if you clone 
https://github.com/collective/buildout.python then a single command will 
build Python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, 3.2, and 3.3 on your system.

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 05:17:52 2012
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 02:17:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Testing against multiple versions of Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2497.1350636623.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <a9ec0dca-4ba8-4887-b65f-359898576795@googlegroups.com>
	<CAF_E5JaGaGFhe15CgKu7mX4qr6wbKW_RG-aVGN1g=S-AUhyK9A@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2497.1350636623.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <76c9fa99-b602-4e34-8426-5f811d1c6ee2@googlegroups.com>

ShiningPanda looks really really cool. I need to investigate it.


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Oct 19 05:21:06 2012
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 11:21:06 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <5080ae0e$0$29985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1828004805.64492.1350638466270.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>



----- Original Message -----
[snipe 80 char line discussion] 
> And, quite frankly, people who care more about the readability of
> their
> code than about squeezing in as much processing into a single line of
> text as possible.
> 

As usual Steven, you take someone's argument, you add a little bit of exaggeration and make it sound silly.
Using 80+ char lines doesn't mean I put all my efforts exceeding the 80 char limit. As a matter of fact, I never
get the char limit get into the way of readability. What needs to be short will be short, and what needs to be long will be long.


[snip] 
> Flame away :)

good job :o)

JM


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Fri Oct 19 05:27:31 2012
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 19 Oct 2012 09:27:31 GMT
Subject: Add if...else...  switch to doctest?
References: <c500a76c-3e6b-4dfc-97ca-8b24f0628620@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <XnsA0F169B9B360Cduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

David <zhushenli at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello, how to add if...else... switch to doctest?
> E.g. function outputs different value when global_var change.
> 
> """
> if (global_var == True):
>>>> function()
> [1,2]
> else:
>>>> function()
> [1,2,3]
> """
> 
> Thank you very much.

One other case the other replies don't seem to have covered:

If the global variable is determined by the environment, outside your 
control, and by implication doesn't change while your program is running, 
then you should use two separate functions:

if sys.platform=='win32':
    def function():
        """
        >>> function()
        [1, 2]
        """
        return [1, 2]

else:
    def function():
        """
        >>> function()
        [1, 2, 3]
        """
        return [1, 2, 3]
    
and if it's more than one such function use separate modules.

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From narasimha18sv at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 05:51:13 2012
From: narasimha18sv at gmail.com (kampy)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 02:51:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: section with in a section config file and reading that config file
Message-ID: <b5307867-0aa6-49db-b58d-803850a60d2d@googlegroups.com>

hi all,
my requirement is to have section with in a section in config parameters
ex:
[AAA]
    [BBB]
     a=1
     b=1
    [CCC]
     a=1
     b=2
Any one help me in  understanding how to make sure that config file to have a structure like this and reading with the config parser


From nospam at nospam.com  Fri Oct 19 06:02:25 2012
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 12:02:25 +0200
Subject: [2.5.1 + CGI] Which interpreter and files?
Message-ID: <s292881uflo25ulrqfem0qk3ob83pch60d@4ax.com>

Hello

I'd like to use the Mongoose basic web server with Python which can
call scripts through CGI.

I have a coupole of questions:

1. Mongoose must be told in the shebang file where to locate the
interpreter, but ActivePython 2.5.1 comes with fours files that look
like the interpreter (actually, two files, since the other two have
the same size so they are probably left overs):
============================
01/05/2007  18:01            24.064 python.exe
01/05/2007  18:01            24.064 python25.exe
01/05/2007  18:01            24.576 pythonw.exe
01/05/2007  18:01            24.576 pythonw25.exe
============================

2. Which files and directories do I really need and must provide, and
which can I do without?
============================
Directory of C:\Python25

20/07/2007  02:38    <DIR>          DLLs
20/07/2007  02:38    <DIR>          include
02/09/2012  11:47    <DIR>          Lib
20/07/2007  02:38    <DIR>          libs
18/07/2007  15:33           348.160 msvcr71.dll
28/10/2009  12:31             2.017 psyco-wininst.log
05/04/2008  03:17             9.226 py2exe-wininst.log
20/11/2008  15:13             4.218 pysqlite-wininst.log
01/05/2007  18:01            24.064 python.exe
01/05/2007  18:01            24.064 python25.exe
01/05/2007  18:01            24.576 pythonw.exe
01/05/2007  18:01            24.576 pythonw25.exe
03/05/2010  12:01            61.440 Removeapsw.exe
28/10/2009  12:31            61.440 Removepsyco.exe
05/04/2008  03:17            61.440 Removepy2exe.exe
20/11/2008  15:13            61.440 Removepysqlite.exe
14/11/2008  18:22            61.440 Removesetuptools.exe
07/07/2010  14:43    <DIR>          Scripts
14/11/2008  18:24             9.859 setuptools-wininst.log
20/07/2007  02:39    <DIR>          tcl
20/07/2007  02:39    <DIR>          Tools
01/05/2007  18:01             4.608 w9xpopen.exe
============================

Thank you.


From tarek at ziade.org  Fri Oct 19 06:09:53 2012
From: tarek at ziade.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tarek_Ziad=E9?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 12:09:53 +0200
Subject: section with in a section config file and reading that config file
In-Reply-To: <b5307867-0aa6-49db-b58d-803850a60d2d@googlegroups.com>
References: <b5307867-0aa6-49db-b58d-803850a60d2d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <508126F1.5070707@ziade.org>

On 10/19/12 11:51 AM, kampy wrote:
> hi all,
> my requirement is to have section with in a section in config parameters
> ex:
> [AAA]
>      [BBB]
>       a=1
>       b=1
>      [CCC]
>       a=1
>       b=2
> Any one help me in  understanding how to make sure that config file to have a structure like this and reading with the config parser
a configuration file is a flat sequences of sections, you cannot do this

what you could do is have 2 files, and add a link from one to the other:


file1.ini:

   [AAA]
   extended = file2.ini

file2.ini:

   [BBB]
   a=1
   b=1

   [CCC]
   a=1
   b=2


then create a bit of logic on the top of ConfigParser to read back those 
values

HTH
Tarek


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 06:09:55 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 21:09:55 +1100
Subject: [2.5.1 + CGI] Which interpreter and files?
In-Reply-To: <s292881uflo25ulrqfem0qk3ob83pch60d@4ax.com>
References: <s292881uflo25ulrqfem0qk3ob83pch60d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpCyrs4OJ==Kda40dprDOhp2cOyBwLtdZRLwt8cad=5eg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 9:02 PM, Gilles <nospam at nospam.com> wrote:
> 1. Mongoose must be told in the shebang file where to locate the
> interpreter, but ActivePython 2.5.1 comes with fours files that look
> like the interpreter (actually, two files, since the other two have
> the same size so they are probably left overs):
> ============================
> 01/05/2007  18:01            24.064 python.exe
> 01/05/2007  18:01            24.064 python25.exe
> 01/05/2007  18:01            24.576 pythonw.exe
> 01/05/2007  18:01            24.576 pythonw25.exe
> ============================

The ones with the -w tag are designed for Windows apps that are going
to bring up a GUI and don't want a console. The python[w]25.exe ones
will be in case you have multiple Pythons installed and want to
explicitly call for version 2.5. You probably want python.exe, but
python25.exe will work too.


ChrisA


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Fri Oct 19 06:19:43 2012
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 19 Oct 2012 10:19:43 GMT
Subject: Python interactive help()
References: <mailman.2493.1350635687.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<XnsA0F165099333Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<mailman.2499.1350637601.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <XnsA0F17334F8414duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On 19/10/2012 09:56, Duncan Booth wrote:
>> Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Good morning/afternoon/evening all,
>>>
>>> Where is this specific usage documented as my search engine skills have
>>> let me down?  By this I mean entering help() without parameters to get
>>> the following output and then the help> prompt.
>>>
>> It is documented under 'built-in functions'.
>>
>> http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#help
>>
>>
> 
> Well Foxtrot Mike :-)  Thanks for the fast response.
> 

A harder question would have been if you asked where 'exit()', 'quit()' are 
documented. For some reason they are hidden under "Built-in constants" 
(even though the documentation includes the function call syntax) alongside 
'license' and 'credits' which are documented without the parentheses but 
are also callable.

All but 'credits' behave similarly having a repr that gives you 
instructions to call them and doing something different when you do call 
them. 'credits' just gives you the same text whether or not you call it.

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From narasimha18sv at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 06:22:37 2012
From: narasimha18sv at gmail.com (narasimha18sv at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 03:22:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: section with in a section config file and reading that config file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2502.1350641397.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <b5307867-0aa6-49db-b58d-803850a60d2d@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2502.1350641397.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f7b64b59-4871-4563-92c9-ccbf08a7ce47@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, 19 October 2012 15:39:57 UTC+5:30, Tarek Ziad?  wrote:
> On 10/19/12 11:51 AM, kampy wrote:
> 
> > hi all,
> 
> > my requirement is to have section with in a section in config parameters
> 
> > ex:
> 
> > [AAA]
> 
> >      [BBB]
> 
> >       a=1
> 
> >       b=1
> 
> >      [CCC]
> 
> >       a=1
> 
> >       b=2
> 
> > Any one help me in  understanding how to make sure that config file to have a structure like this and reading with the config parser
> 
> a configuration file is a flat sequences of sections, you cannot do this
> 
> 
> 
> what you could do is have 2 files, and add a link from one to the other:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> file1.ini:
> 
> 
> 
>    [AAA]
> 
>    extended = file2.ini
> 
> 
> 
> file2.ini:
> 
> 
> 
>    [BBB]
> 
>    a=1
> 
>    b=1
> 
> 
> 
>    [CCC]
> 
>    a=1
> 
>    b=2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> then create a bit of logic on the top of ConfigParser to read back those 
> 
> values
> 
> 
> 
> HTH
> 
> Tarek

yes but it is not only for one structure like above there will be many sections like that


From narasimha18sv at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 06:22:37 2012
From: narasimha18sv at gmail.com (narasimha18sv at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 03:22:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: section with in a section config file and reading that config file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2502.1350641397.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <b5307867-0aa6-49db-b58d-803850a60d2d@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2502.1350641397.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f7b64b59-4871-4563-92c9-ccbf08a7ce47@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, 19 October 2012 15:39:57 UTC+5:30, Tarek Ziad?  wrote:
> On 10/19/12 11:51 AM, kampy wrote:
> 
> > hi all,
> 
> > my requirement is to have section with in a section in config parameters
> 
> > ex:
> 
> > [AAA]
> 
> >      [BBB]
> 
> >       a=1
> 
> >       b=1
> 
> >      [CCC]
> 
> >       a=1
> 
> >       b=2
> 
> > Any one help me in  understanding how to make sure that config file to have a structure like this and reading with the config parser
> 
> a configuration file is a flat sequences of sections, you cannot do this
> 
> 
> 
> what you could do is have 2 files, and add a link from one to the other:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> file1.ini:
> 
> 
> 
>    [AAA]
> 
>    extended = file2.ini
> 
> 
> 
> file2.ini:
> 
> 
> 
>    [BBB]
> 
>    a=1
> 
>    b=1
> 
> 
> 
>    [CCC]
> 
>    a=1
> 
>    b=2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> then create a bit of logic on the top of ConfigParser to read back those 
> 
> values
> 
> 
> 
> HTH
> 
> Tarek

yes but it is not only for one structure like above there will be many sections like that


From nospam at nospam.com  Fri Oct 19 06:27:17 2012
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 12:27:17 +0200
Subject: [2.5.1 + CGI] Which interpreter and files?
References: <s292881uflo25ulrqfem0qk3ob83pch60d@4ax.com>
	<mailman.2503.1350641403.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cla288tkn51f1emhqta3a9eu1ubl2o7frl@4ax.com>

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 21:09:55 +1100, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>
wrote:
>The ones with the -w tag are designed for Windows apps that are going
>to bring up a GUI and don't want a console. The python[w]25.exe ones
>will be in case you have multiple Pythons installed and want to
>explicitly call for version 2.5. You probably want python.exe, but
>python25.exe will work too.

Thanks for the info.


From nospam at nospam.com  Fri Oct 19 06:32:48 2012
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 12:32:48 +0200
Subject: python scripts for web
References: <mailman.2409.1350547078.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e10b4aba-a725-46c4-aaa9-0035a099a9bf@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2412.1350549775.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<809c86c5-26a0-4f4a-bce7-ad8f63efa763@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2419.1350554581.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<866debf5-4b07-4b93-b785-442b1b14e2e5@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2475.1350594610.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<001d1ee0-80d6-44f8-aa38-85d8e18f925b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20b28813ug83l2odd6s1hr6d03pf1rs8u6@4ax.com>

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 23:05:48 -0700 (PDT), chip9munk at gmail.com wrote:
>these scripts will do a lot of calculation on a big dataset, and it is possible that there will be many requests in a short period of time.

In that case, are you sure a web script is a good idea? If you're
thinking web to make it easy for people to upload data, click on a
button, and get the results back, you might want to write the UI in
Python but write the number crunching part in a compiled language.


From hansmu at xs4all.nl  Fri Oct 19 06:48:16 2012
From: hansmu at xs4all.nl (Hans Mulder)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 12:48:16 +0200
Subject: error executing "import html.parser" from a script
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2500.1350638147.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2500.1350638147.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <50812ff1$0$6939$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 19/10/12 11:15:45, Paul Volkov wrote:
> What is this madness?

That's because your script is called "html.py".

If you import html.parser, Python first imports html,
then checks that it's a package and contains a module
named "parser".  When Python imports html, it searches
for a file named "html.py".  It finds your script,
imports it and decides that it's not a package.

Solution: rename your script.

> I have Python 3.3.0 installed on Windows XP. I do not have Python 2
> (but I had it before). I do the following steps:
> 
> 1. Import from an interactive session (no problems)
> 
>> python
> Python 3.3.0 (v3.3.0:bd8afb90ebf2, Sep 29 2012, 10:55:48) [MSC v.1600
> 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import html
>>>> import html.parser
>>>> ^Z
> 
> 2. Import from command line (no problems)
> 
>> python -c "import html.parser"
> 
> 3. Import from a script. The script contains only one import line.
> Everything else is commented out.
> 
>> python e:\tmp\pyt\html.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<frozen importlib._bootstrap>", line 1512, in _find_and_load_unlocked
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute '__path__'
> 
> During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "e:\tmp\pyt\html.py", line 7, in <module>
>     import html.parser
>   File "e:\tmp\pyt\html.py", line 7, in <module>
>     import html.parser
> ImportError: No module named 'html.parser'; html is not a package
> 
> 4. And then I tried to print sys.path from my script by modifying it this way:
> import sys
> print (sys.path)
> import html.parser
> 
> And the result is: (I don't know why sys.path is printed twice)

The first time, your script is being run as a script, and
has the module name '__main__'.  The second time, your script
is being imported as a module, and has the module name 'html'.

When Python finds the command "import html.parser" for the
second time, there's an (incomplete) module named "html" in
sys.modules, and Python doesn't try to import html again
and instead tries to use it as a package, and fails.

>> python e:\tmp\pyt/html.py
> ['e:\\tmp\\pyt', 'D:\\WINDOWS\\system32\\python33.zip',
> 'D:\\Python33\\DLLs', 'D:\\Python33\\lib', '
> D:\\Python33', 'D:\\Python33\\lib\\site-packages']
> ['e:\\tmp\\pyt', 'D:\\WINDOWS\\system32\\python33.zip',
> 'D:\\Python33\\DLLs', 'D:\\Python33\\lib', '
> D:\\Python33', 'D:\\Python33\\lib\\site-packages']
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<frozen importlib._bootstrap>", line 1512, in _find_and_load_unlocked
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute '__path__'
> 
> During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "e:\tmp\pyt/html.py", line 8, in <module>
>     import html.parser
>   File "e:\tmp\pyt\html.py", line 8, in <module>
>     import html.parser
> ImportError: No module named 'html.parser'; html is not a package

Notice how the import is also being reported twice.


Hope this helps,

-- HansM


From as at sci.fi  Fri Oct 19 07:00:51 2012
From: as at sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 14:00:51 +0300
Subject: Fwd: system tray or notification area in python
References: <CADjSo4TmVQrr9zCsX5uCCx0iDOP3GJjY7i9rXtCBi9hbbu7a8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<7585937255598573571@unknownmsgid>
	<CADjSo4RqR1Jbpuv2-RpW-HcorjBO8DecGum=A1VzS4xeOTrL6Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2296.1350420001.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vg34nlqpvz0.fsf@coffee.modeemi.fi>

Daniel Fetchinson <fetchinson at googlemail.com> writes:

> But I have zero experience with gui programming in python. So any
> pointers would be much appreciated how to implement a system tray in
> python. Gtk is I guess just one option, one could use other stuff from
> python but I wouldn't know what the simplest approach is.

Well, when I went to download stalonepanel, SourceForge said I might be
interested in PyPanel as well. Which is a "lightweight panel/taskbar
written in Python and C for X11 window managers." It includes a system
tray. Fairly old though but I suppose it could be a start? Apparently it
uses python-xlib.


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 08:15:25 2012
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (andrea crotti)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:15:25 +0100
Subject: locking files on Linux
In-Reply-To: <CAHVvXxSNsxjLD9X74-7Awe7uFxKU5cYeryqsRm3J-HxPFQ=AwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2430.1350566044.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5p03u$3t8$2@reader1.panix.com>
	<mailman.2431.1350567869.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5p1rg$et4$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<CAF_E5Jb9javdypCvPpVGkq+zPLmt-autD=bu+Z-uDrghhGneog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHVvXxTCE8d_RoKgiT2S1XgMpUNPpd5gMHbCunicjEOOfU1GnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF_E5Jbf3FagsPaMcQ11pKiPAzPSA2G-cS7r8Jemr84MaoKRyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHVvXxSNsxjLD9X74-7Awe7uFxKU5cYeryqsRm3J-HxPFQ=AwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF_E5Ja7+w+ivEjgtTiDwaq30_QbUR=NN4VXO5iY_vLfwt=pGA@mail.gmail.com>

2012/10/18 Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com>:
>
> The lock is cooperative. It does not prevent the file from being
> opened or overwritten. It only prevents any other process from
> obtaining the lock. Here you open the file with mode 'w' which
> truncates the file instantly (without checking for the lock).
>
>
> Oscar


Very good thanks now I understood, actually my problem was in the
assumption that it should fail when the lock is already taken, but by
default lockf just blocks until the lock is released.

It seems to work quite nicely so I'm going to use this..


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 09:06:35 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 06:06:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pls help me with this prog
References: <mailman.2495.1350636042.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6cfb7fec-b53f-44c3-adef-57bad7adf918@jj5g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>

Dont know what your code does/tries to do. Anyway some points:

On Oct 19, 1:40?pm, inshu chauhan <insidesh... at gmail.com> wrote:
> in this prog I have written a code to calculate teh centre of a given 3D data..
>
> but i want to calculate it for every 3 points not the whole data, but
> instead of giving me centre for every 3 data the prog is printing the
> centre 3 times...
>
> import cv
> from math import floor, sqrt, ceil
> from numpy import array, dot, subtract, add, linalg as lin
>
> def CalcCentre(data):
> ? ? centre = array([0,0,0])
> ? ? count = 0
> ? ? n = 0
> ? ? for p in data[n:n+3]:
> ? ? ? ? centre = add(centre, array(p[:3]))
> ? ? ? ? count += 1
> ? ? ? ? centre = dot(1./count, centre)
> ? ? ? ? return centre
> ? ? n += 1



The return makes the for iterate only once
And n += 1 will never be reached

>    t = tuple(map(float, sp[1:4]))
drops the sp[0] element.


From grahams at tectime.com  Fri Oct 19 09:24:34 2012
From: grahams at tectime.com (graham)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 14:24:34 +0100
Subject: Python on Windows
In-Reply-To: <1pKdnT9EiNaO2ODNnZ2dnUVZ8rCdnZ2d@bt.com>
References: <1pKdnT9EiNaO2ODNnZ2dnUVZ8rCdnZ2d@bt.com>
Message-ID: <JY2dnYfmpcsEyRzNnZ2dnUVZ8vadnZ2d@bt.com>

On 16/10/2012 12:29, graham wrote:
>
> Downloaded and installed Python 2.7.3 for windows (an XP machine).
>
> Entered the Python interactive interpreter/command line and typed the
> following:
>
>      >>>import feedparser
>
> and I get the error message "No module named feedparser".
>
> There is a feedparser.py file lurking around - so I suppose Python
> cannot find it.
>
> Anyone: What to do?
>
>
>
> GC
>

Thanks to everyone who replied.

Python was installed in the subdirectory C:\Python27 with the file 
feedparser.py residing in C:\Python27\Lib\email.

Setting the Windows environment variable (which did not previously 
exist) to C:\Python27\Lib\email allowed me to import feedparser 
successfully.

However, it seems that this feedparser module is not the module I wanted.

I'm trying to follow an introductory Python course from the magazine 
Linux Format (issue number 120 I think). The article includes the 
following lines:

>>> import feedparser
>>> url = ?http://weather.yahooapis.com/forecastrss?p=UKXX0637&u=c?
>>> data = feedparser.parse(url)

This is fine using Ubuntu (after installing the feedparser package) but 
now, running XP I get

>>> data = feedparser.parse(url)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'parse'



So there seems to be at least 2 feedparser modules - the one I have does 
not include "parse". How can I identify the correct one? How do I

This is all confusing and frustrating.

Some searching suggests I need the 'universal feed parser' code. I can 
find documentation for this but no code/module file. Is it available 
only for Unix-like OS's?

GC








From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Fri Oct 19 09:44:34 2012
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 14:44:34 +0100
Subject: Python on Windows
In-Reply-To: <JY2dnYfmpcsEyRzNnZ2dnUVZ8vadnZ2d@bt.com>
References: <1pKdnT9EiNaO2ODNnZ2dnUVZ8rCdnZ2d@bt.com>
	<JY2dnYfmpcsEyRzNnZ2dnUVZ8vadnZ2d@bt.com>
Message-ID: <50815942.6060407@timgolden.me.uk>

On 19/10/2012 14:24, graham wrote:
> Thanks to everyone who replied.
> 
> Python was installed in the subdirectory C:\Python27 with the file
> feedparser.py residing in C:\Python27\Lib\email.
> 
> Setting the Windows environment variable (which did not previously
> exist) to C:\Python27\Lib\email allowed me to import feedparser
> successfully.
> 
> However, it seems that this feedparser module is not the module I wanted.
> 
> I'm trying to follow an introductory Python course from the magazine
> Linux Format (issue number 120 I think). 


I'm very surprised that the article tells you to import a non-standard
module without telling you where to download it. I imagine that the
module is this one:

  http://pypi.python.org/pypi/feedparser/

(In general, PyPI is the first place to look for Python packages).

> This is all confusing and frustrating.

Understandably. It's not unknown, but it is unusual for two
identically-named packages to exist for Python. It's more
unfortunate when it's one used in a beginner's article.

If you understand how to download the .zip file from the page above and
unzip it then you need to go to the directory where the unzipped files
are and run:

  python setup.py install

If you're not sure how to do any of that, feel free to post back here or
to the python-tutor list [1] which is a little more experience in
helping newcomers.

TJG

[1] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor




From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 09:48:30 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 06:48:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on Windows
References: <1pKdnT9EiNaO2ODNnZ2dnUVZ8rCdnZ2d@bt.com>
	<JY2dnYfmpcsEyRzNnZ2dnUVZ8vadnZ2d@bt.com>
Message-ID: <4000dfaf-4ed9-4048-8aa7-530978cddcae@vy11g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 19, 6:24?pm, graham <grah... at tectime.com> wrote:
> On 16/10/2012 12:29, graham wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Downloaded and installed Python 2.7.3 for windows (an XP machine).
>
> > Entered the Python interactive interpreter/command line and typed the
> > following:
>
> > ? ? ?>>>import feedparser
>
> > and I get the error message "No module named feedparser".
>
> > There is a feedparser.py file lurking around - so I suppose Python
> > cannot find it.
>
> > Anyone: What to do?
>
> > GC
>
> Thanks to everyone who replied.
>
> Python was installed in the subdirectory C:\Python27 with the file
> feedparser.py residing in C:\Python27\Lib\email.
>
> Setting the Windows environment variable (which did not previously
> exist) to C:\Python27\Lib\email allowed me to import feedparser
> successfully.
>
> However, it seems that this feedparser module is not the module I wanted.
>
> I'm trying to follow an introductory Python course from the magazine
> Linux Format (issue number 120 I think). The article includes the
> following lines:
>
> >>> import feedparser
> >>> url = ?http://weather.yahooapis.com/forecastrss?p=UKXX0637&u=c?
> >>> data = feedparser.parse(url)
>
> This is fine using Ubuntu (after installing the feedparser package) but
> now, running XP I get
>
> >>> data = feedparser.parse(url)
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'parse'
>
> So there seems to be at least 2 feedparser modules - the one I have does
> not include "parse". How can I identify the correct one? How do I
>
> This is all confusing and frustrating.
>
> Some searching suggests I need the 'universal feed parser' code. I can
> find documentation for this but no code/module file. Is it available
> only for Unix-like OS's?
>
> GC

Just try taking your ubuntu's /usr/share/pyshare/feedparser.py onto
your windows box??
[UNTESTED]


From tarek at ziade.org  Fri Oct 19 09:57:50 2012
From: tarek at ziade.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tarek_Ziad=E9?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:57:50 +0200
Subject: section with in a section config file and reading that config file
In-Reply-To: <f7b64b59-4871-4563-92c9-ccbf08a7ce47@googlegroups.com>
References: <b5307867-0aa6-49db-b58d-803850a60d2d@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2502.1350641397.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<f7b64b59-4871-4563-92c9-ccbf08a7ce47@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50815C5E.6050600@ziade.org>

On 10/19/12 12:22 PM, narasimha18sv at gmail.com wrote:
>
> yes but it is not only for one structure like above there will be many sections like that
I'd use yaml or json then...




From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Fri Oct 19 10:00:13 2012
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:00:13 +0100
Subject: Python on Windows
In-Reply-To: <JY2dnYfmpcsEyRzNnZ2dnUVZ8vadnZ2d@bt.com>
References: <1pKdnT9EiNaO2ODNnZ2dnUVZ8rCdnZ2d@bt.com>
	<JY2dnYfmpcsEyRzNnZ2dnUVZ8vadnZ2d@bt.com>
Message-ID: <50815CED.70902@timgolden.me.uk>

On 19/10/2012 14:24, graham wrote:
> Python was installed in the subdirectory C:\Python27 with the file
> feedparser.py residing in C:\Python27\Lib\email.
> 
> Setting the Windows environment variable (which did not previously
> exist) to C:\Python27\Lib\email allowed me to import feedparser
> successfully.

As an aside, this is not the best use of the PYTHONPATH
variable. (I would argue that, on Windows at least, there's very little
need for the env var).

In general, you'll want to be using a mechanism such as pip:

  http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pip

which will look things up on PyPI so you can just do "pip install
newmodule". This will install into c:\python27\lib\site-packages. The
same for a module you install "manually" (ie python setup.py install) or
via an .exe or an .msi from PyPI or elsewhere.

There are other possibilities: .pth files, the PYTHONPATH env var,
virtualenv, user-install directories which you can read about, but in
general, just let the standard mechanisms install into
c:\python27\lib\site-packages (which is automatically on sys.path) and
go from there.

TJG


From grahams at tectime.com  Fri Oct 19 10:12:57 2012
From: grahams at tectime.com (graham)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:12:57 +0100
Subject: Python on Windows
In-Reply-To: <JY2dnYfmpcsEyRzNnZ2dnUVZ8vadnZ2d@bt.com>
References: <1pKdnT9EiNaO2ODNnZ2dnUVZ8rCdnZ2d@bt.com>
	<JY2dnYfmpcsEyRzNnZ2dnUVZ8vadnZ2d@bt.com>
Message-ID: <rYmdnUnPSeltwhzNnZ2dnUVZ8t-dnZ2d@bt.com>

On 19/10/2012 14:24, graham wrote:
> On 16/10/2012 12:29, graham wrote:
>>
>> Downloaded and installed Python 2.7.3 for windows (an XP machine).
>>
>> Entered the Python interactive interpreter/command line and typed the
>> following:
>>
>>      >>>import feedparser
>>
>> and I get the error message "No module named feedparser".
>>
>> There is a feedparser.py file lurking around - so I suppose Python
>> cannot find it.
>>
>> Anyone: What to do?
>>
>>
>>
>> GC
>>
>
> Thanks to everyone who replied.
>
> Python was installed in the subdirectory C:\Python27 with the file
> feedparser.py residing in C:\Python27\Lib\email.
>
> Setting the Windows environment variable (which did not previously
> exist) to C:\Python27\Lib\email allowed me to import feedparser
> successfully.
>
> However, it seems that this feedparser module is not the module I wanted.
>
> I'm trying to follow an introductory Python course from the magazine
> Linux Format (issue number 120 I think). The article includes the
> following lines:
>
>>>> import feedparser
>>>> url = ?http://weather.yahooapis.com/forecastrss?p=UKXX0637&u=c?
>>>> data = feedparser.parse(url)
>
> This is fine using Ubuntu (after installing the feedparser package) but
> now, running XP I get
>
>>>> data = feedparser.parse(url)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'parse'
>
>
>
> So there seems to be at least 2 feedparser modules - the one I have does
> not include "parse". How can I identify the correct one? How do I
>
> This is all confusing and frustrating.
>
> Some searching suggests I need the 'universal feed parser' code. I can
> find documentation for this but no code/module file. Is it available
> only for Unix-like OS's?
>
> GC
>
>

Once again thanks to those that replied.

Since I posted, I found a version 4.1 on sourceforge.

I guessed/muddled my way through installation and it seems to work.

To Tom Golden,
   Thanks for the link to http://pypi.python.org/pypi/feedparser/ - I 
couldn't find it and I don't know how you did.

The version at http://pypi.python.org/pypi/feedparser/ is 5.1. Can I 
simply install 'over the top' of the previous one or do I need to 
uninstall V4.1?


GC









From nobody at nowhere.com  Fri Oct 19 10:22:39 2012
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:22:39 +0100
Subject: Watching output and put back in background
References: <mailman.2428.1350565561.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2012.10.19.14.22.39.494000@nowhere.com>

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 14:05:58 +0100, andrea crotti wrote:

> Maybe a solution would be to redirect the stderr to file and watch that
> instead..
> 
> Or otherwise I could use a thread for each shell command, but I would like
> to avoid head-aches with possible race-conditions..

If you're running multiple concurrent commands, and you have redirected
their output streams to pipes, something needs to keep reading those pipes
if you don't want the commands to hang.

Rather than having a separate thread for each process, you could have a
single thread which manages all "background" processes using select(),
poll() or non-blocking I/O, but that's easier to do on Unix than on
Windows (Popen.communicate() uses a pair of threads on Windows).

Redirecting output to files then reading them upon completion is the
simplest solution, but you can't easily monitor progress that way (there's
no easy way to get notification when more output is written).



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Oct 19 10:23:54 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:23:54 +0100
Subject: Python on Windows
In-Reply-To: <50815942.6060407@timgolden.me.uk>
References: <1pKdnT9EiNaO2ODNnZ2dnUVZ8rCdnZ2d@bt.com>
	<JY2dnYfmpcsEyRzNnZ2dnUVZ8vadnZ2d@bt.com>
	<50815942.6060407@timgolden.me.uk>
Message-ID: <k5rnnt$mqh$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 19/10/2012 14:44, Tim Golden wrote:
>
> (In general, PyPI is the first place to look for Python packages).
>
>

For the benefit of the OP and others this is worth reading on how to get 
Python packages from pypi that let you get Python packages from pypi 
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4750806/how-to-install-pip-on-windows :)

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Fri Oct 19 10:24:41 2012
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:24:41 +0100
Subject: Python on Windows
In-Reply-To: <rYmdnUnPSeltwhzNnZ2dnUVZ8t-dnZ2d@bt.com>
References: <1pKdnT9EiNaO2ODNnZ2dnUVZ8rCdnZ2d@bt.com>
	<JY2dnYfmpcsEyRzNnZ2dnUVZ8vadnZ2d@bt.com>
	<rYmdnUnPSeltwhzNnZ2dnUVZ8t-dnZ2d@bt.com>
Message-ID: <508162A9.50805@timgolden.me.uk>

[Could I suggest snipping some of the preceding replies unless you're
referring directly to them? Just leave enough to make the context clear]

[... attempts to find feedparser module for beginner's tutorial ...]

On 19/10/2012 15:12, graham wrote:
> Once again thanks to those that replied.
> 
> Since I posted, I found a version 4.1 on sourceforge.
> 
> I guessed/muddled my way through installation and it seems to work.
> 
> To Tom Golden,
>   Thanks for the link to http://pypi.python.org/pypi/feedparser/ - I
> couldn't find it and I don't know how you did.

At least from where I'm standing, it's the second Google result for
"python feedparser" but in fact I Googled for "PyPI feedparser" because
I knew that that was the most likely bet.

> 
> The version at http://pypi.python.org/pypi/feedparser/ is 5.1. Can I
> simply install 'over the top' of the previous one or do I need to
> uninstall V4.1?

You should just be able to over-install. No harm in deleting the
previous one, but you probably don't need to.

TJG


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 10:26:47 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 07:26:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: section with in a section config file and reading that config file
References: <b5307867-0aa6-49db-b58d-803850a60d2d@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2502.1350641397.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<f7b64b59-4871-4563-92c9-ccbf08a7ce47@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2507.1350655080.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <565d9f3e-f28f-4fe0-b1dc-53c7d765b8cf@rj6g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 19, 6:58?pm, Tarek Ziad? <ta... at ziade.org> wrote:
> On 10/19/12 12:22 PM, narasimha1... at gmail.com wrote:
>
> > yes but it is not only for one structure like above there will be many sections like that
>
> I'd use yaml or json then...

Maybe http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/configobj.html ??


From nobody at nowhere.com  Fri Oct 19 10:36:38 2012
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:36:38 +0100
Subject: locking files on Linux
References: <mailman.2430.1350566044.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5p03u$3t8$2@reader1.panix.com>
	<mailman.2431.1350567869.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2012.10.19.14.36.38.826000@nowhere.com>

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 14:44:27 +0100, andrea crotti wrote:

> Uhh I see thanks, I guess I'll use the good-old .lock file (even if it
> might have some problems too).

In which case, you don't see. A lock file is also advisory, i.e. it only
affects applications which explicitly check for a lock file.

Historically, the advantage of lock files was that they worked on NFS
implementations which didn't implement locking (it's a long-standing Unix
joke that "NFS" stands for "Not a FileSystem", because it failed to
conform to established filesystem semantics).

Nowadays, NFS implementations which don't support locking are sufficiently
rare that they can safely be ignored. So lock files don't offer any
advantages, and one fairly obvious disadvantage (the possibility of a
"stale" lock file if the program terminates unexpectedly without removing
the lock file).

For any form of advisory locking, the one thing which matters is that all
progams which access the file agree on the mechanism used, i.e. whether to
use lockf(), fcntl(), flock() (locks created by one mechanism may or may
not be recognised by the others), or lock files, and in the case of lock
files, the naming convention which is used.

If the file is specific to a particular program, and you just need to
protect against multiple instances of that program, you can use whichever
mechanism you wish, and would be strongly advised to use kernel locks
(fcntl() is the most portable, followed by lockf(); flock() is a BSD-ism).



From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Fri Oct 19 10:40:49 2012
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:40:49 +0100
Subject: Python on Windows
In-Reply-To: <k5rnnt$mqh$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <1pKdnT9EiNaO2ODNnZ2dnUVZ8rCdnZ2d@bt.com>
	<JY2dnYfmpcsEyRzNnZ2dnUVZ8vadnZ2d@bt.com>
	<50815942.6060407@timgolden.me.uk> <k5rnnt$mqh$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <50816671.5040408@timgolden.me.uk>

On 19/10/2012 15:23, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 19/10/2012 14:44, Tim Golden wrote:
>>
>> (In general, PyPI is the first place to look for Python packages).
>>
>>
> 
> For the benefit of the OP and others this is worth reading on how to get
> Python packages from pypi that let you get Python packages from pypi
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4750806/how-to-install-pip-on-windows :)
> 

Heh. I avoided trying to explain how to install pip because the OP
seemed unfamiliar with enough concepts already. It never occurred to me
to use easy_install to install pip!

TJG


From affdfsdfdsfsd at b.com  Fri Oct 19 11:42:12 2012
From: affdfsdfdsfsd at b.com (Tracubik)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 17:42:12 +0200
Subject: Image.paste with images with different palettes...
Message-ID: <508174d4$0$13271$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>

Hi all!
I'm trying to create a map generator for c64's games

it's a simple script and it work properly, but i've problem if i try to 
modify images before creating the map.

what i do is:
- take a 8 bit screenshoot with VICE emulator in gif or bmp format
- open shutter (screenshoot edit tool under linux) to modify the 
screenshoot (i.e. insert note of sensible part of the screenshoot)
- save the modified screenshot
saving the screenshoot modify the palette of the 8 bit image
every modified screenshoot have different palette
trying to paste the modified screenshots in a new image (Image.paste) 
result in a map with wrong colors.

Converting all in RGB solve a bit but result in a "grainy" image

any hints?
maybe using GIMP and setting it properly could help, but shutter have a 
so nice arrow tools...


From drsalists at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 12:26:08 2012
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 09:26:08 -0700
Subject: Good debugger for CPython 3.2?
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_qSJ-7=DVku1Jed-xcnE62g=o9o8366HQXK0rSeNMCjrg@mail.gmail.com>

What's a good debugger for CPython 3.2?  I'd prefer to use it on Linux Mint
13, and I'd be happy with something based on X11 or curses.

I tried winpdb, but it was cranky that Linux didn't have a spawn callable.
Why they didn't use the portable subprocess module escapes me.

I also tried ddd, but it blew up on:
def callable(*msg, file=sys.stderr):
...which suggests to me that this is too-new syntax for the child debugger
ddd is using.

Are there other good options?  Did I give up too quickly on one of the
above?

Thanks!
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From pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com  Fri Oct 19 13:08:53 2012
From: pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com (Pradipto Banerjee)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 12:08:53 -0500
Subject: Python does not take up available physical memory
Message-ID: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>

Hi,

I am trying to read a file into memory. The size of the file is around 1 GB. I have a 3GB memory PC and the Windows Task Manager shows  2.3 GB available physical memory when I was trying to read the file. I tried to read the file as follows:

>>> fdata = open(filename, 'r').read()

I got a "MemoryError". I was watching the Windows Task Manager while I run the python command, and it appears that python *perhaps* never even attempted to use more memory but gave me this error.

Is there any reason why python can't read a 1GB file in memory even when a 2.3 GB physical memory is available? Do I need to make a change in some setting or preferences?

I am using python(x,y) distribution (python 2.7) and use Spyder as the IDE.

Thanks

________________________________
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From drsalists at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 13:41:44 2012
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 10:41:44 -0700
Subject: Good debugger for CPython 3.2?
In-Reply-To: <CAGGBd_qSJ-7=DVku1Jed-xcnE62g=o9o8366HQXK0rSeNMCjrg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGGBd_qSJ-7=DVku1Jed-xcnE62g=o9o8366HQXK0rSeNMCjrg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_oVjK7oxvgq39C4soux3h_7-r80F37Akk9btN1BCcgLSw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 9:26 AM, Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> What's a good debugger for CPython 3.2?  I'd prefer to use it on Linux
> Mint 13, and I'd be happy with something based on X11 or curses.
>
> I tried winpdb, but it was cranky that Linux didn't have a spawn
> callable.  Why they didn't use the portable subprocess module escapes me.
>
> I also tried ddd, but it blew up on:
> def callable(*msg, file=sys.stderr):
> ...which suggests to me that this is too-new syntax for the child debugger
> ddd is using.
>
> Are there other good options?  Did I give up too quickly on one of the
> above?
>

Quick update: I seem to be having good luck with pudb (the latest git
version) so far.

The name probably wasn't given by someone in marketing, but it seems to
work.
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From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 13:59:17 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 10:59:17 -0700
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <5080ae0e$0$29985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2433.1350568745.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5080ae0e$0$29985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <EDB0B3FC-61EC-4CC2-B95F-E0DA95A513F8@gmail.com>


On 2012-10-18, at 6:34 PM, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:

> Flame away :)


This post made my Friday, even though I'm sitting on a nearly two hour bus ride into work because I missed my commuter train. Just wanted you to know ;) You noted *every* reason (and them some) why my own code never passed 79 chars and why I try to instil that same value in others.



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 14:48:12 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 12:48:12 -0600
Subject: Python does not take up available physical memory
In-Reply-To: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmU2sCdpCmK9vidSCMt-xhb5FEpydQEkOFwXgfJ_gQZ0g@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Pradipto Banerjee
<pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com> wrote:
> Is there any reason why python can?t read a 1GB file in memory even when a
> 2.3 GB physical memory is available? Do I need to make a change in some
> setting or preferences?
>
>
>
> I am using python(x,y) distribution (python 2.7) and use Spyder as the IDE.

Probably you're using a 32-bit Python build, and Windows wasn't able
to allocate enough contiguous virtual memory for the process.

Try using a 64-bit build instead.


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Fri Oct 19 14:48:26 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 11:48:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Remove uncide notation
In-Reply-To: <e3a36bc8-ccaa-4bf5-a005-f7c016fe1de2@googlegroups.com>
References: <e3a36bc8-ccaa-4bf5-a005-f7c016fe1de2@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <294a15a0-c822-45d0-b738-808ffce200e4@googlegroups.com>

Ashish Jain? 2012?10?18????UTC+8??5?27?04????
> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> I have a html string in an object, when I do repr() of that object, I get value as:
> 
> 
> 
> {'Id' : 1, 'Body': u'<p> Hello </p>'}
> 
> 
> 
> I don't wish to have 'u' as the character in my string representation. As this is not a valid json notation now.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help
> 
> 
> 
> -Ashish

I remembered about 15 years ago that the MS office and IE were
supporting different languages all over the world to collect money$$$!

Of course there were ISO standards. But in business Wintel did 
several very good jobs before year 2000 for those different encodings of 
languages.

Now the unicode is the default standard in software development 
for multi-lingual supports of web sites all over the world. 
 

 


From mateusz at loskot.net  Fri Oct 19 15:00:22 2012
From: mateusz at loskot.net (Mateusz Loskot)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 20:00:22 +0100
Subject: Fwd: Format of datetime dump
In-Reply-To: <CABUeae_KJQDvtiRomJKcfKMHYzAVjwvyuvh8U=8_ZAJy6QSUsg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABUeae_KJQDvtiRomJKcfKMHYzAVjwvyuvh8U=8_ZAJy6QSUsg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABUeae9ymsRy79+EjUNmVBH_3+Y8rujCVVv37AqjGZvrfa4Cqw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm not sure if this list is the right place to ask question about PyYAML,
but the yaml-core seems to be too general and quiet.
So, I decided to forward my question here.

I asked on yaml-core the following question, would anyone have any insights?

Mat

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mateusz Loskot <mateusz at loskot.net>
Date: 19 October 2012 13:58
Subject: Format of datetime dump
To: yaml-core at lists.sourceforge.net


Hi,

Given this snippet:

yaml.dump({'date':datetime.datetime.now()})
"{date: !!timestamp '2012-10-19 01:32:41.674322'}\n"

Could anyone enlighten me why the ISO8601 format YYYY-MM-DDThh:mm:ssTZD
is not used here, by default?
Is there any mean to make yaml.dump generating datetime in ISO8601?

Best regards,
--
Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net


-- 
Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net


From pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com  Fri Oct 19 15:03:37 2012
From: pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com (Pradipto Banerjee)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 14:03:37 -0500
Subject: Python does not take up available physical memory
In-Reply-To: <k5s743$6jl$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
	<k5s743$6jl$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063EB5@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>

Thanks, I tried that. Still got MemoryError, but at least this time python tried to use the physical memory. What I noticed is that before it gave me the error it used up to 1.5GB (of the 2.23 GB originally showed as available) - so in general, python takes up more memory than the size of the file itself.

-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+pradipto.banerjee=adainvestments.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Emile van Sebille
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 2:46 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Python does not take up available physical memory

On 10/19/2012 10:08 AM, Pradipto Banerjee wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to read a file into memory. The size of the file is around 1
> GB. I have a 3GB memory PC and the Windows Task Manager shows  2.3 GB
> available physical memory when I was trying to read the file. I tried to
> read the file as follows:
>
>>>> fdata = open(filename, 'r').read()
>
> I got a "MemoryError". I was watching the Windows Task Manager while I
> run the python command, and it appears that python **perhaps** never
> even attempted to use more memory but gave me this error.
>
> Is there any reason why python can't read a 1GB file in memory even when
> a 2.3 GB physical memory is available?

The real issue is likely that there is more than one copy of the file in
memory somewhere.  I had a similar issue years back that I resolved by
using numeric (now numpy?) as it had a more efficient method of
importing content from disk.

Also realize that windows may not allow the full memory to user space.
I'm not sure what exactly the restrictions are, but a 4Gb windows box
doesn't always get you 4Gb of memory.

Emile


--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

 This communication is for informational purposes only. It is not intended to be, nor should it be construed or used as, financial, legal, tax or investment advice or an offer to sell, or a solicitation of any offer to buy, an interest in any fund advised by Ada Investment Management LP, the Investment advisor.  Any offer or solicitation of an investment in any of the Funds may be made only by delivery of such Funds confidential offering materials to authorized prospective investors.  An investment in any of the Funds is not suitable for all investors.  No representation is made that the Funds will or are likely to achieve their objectives, or that any investor will or is likely to achieve results comparable to those shown, or will make any profit at all or will be able to avoid incurring substantial losses.  Performance results are net of applicable fees, are unaudited and reflect reinvestment of income and profits.  Past performance is no guarantee of future results. All financial data and other information are not warranted as to completeness or accuracy and are subject to change without notice.

Any comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect those of Ada Investment Management LP and its affiliates. This transmission may contain information that is confidential, legally privileged, and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is strictly prohibited. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format.


From pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com  Fri Oct 19 15:04:21 2012
From: pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com (Pradipto Banerjee)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 14:04:21 -0500
Subject: Python does not take up available physical memory
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidmU2sCdpCmK9vidSCMt-xhb5FEpydQEkOFwXgfJ_gQZ0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
	<CALwzidmU2sCdpCmK9vidSCMt-xhb5FEpydQEkOFwXgfJ_gQZ0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063EB8@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>

I have a 32-bit machine. Can I install a 64-bit build even if my PC is 32-bit?

-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+pradipto.banerjee=adainvestments.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Ian Kelly
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 2:48 PM
To: Python
Subject: Re: Python does not take up available physical memory

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Pradipto Banerjee
<pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com> wrote:
> Is there any reason why python can't read a 1GB file in memory even when a
> 2.3 GB physical memory is available? Do I need to make a change in some
> setting or preferences?
>
>
>
> I am using python(x,y) distribution (python 2.7) and use Spyder as the IDE.

Probably you're using a 32-bit Python build, and Windows wasn't able
to allocate enough contiguous virtual memory for the process.

Try using a 64-bit build instead.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

 This communication is for informational purposes only. It is not intended to be, nor should it be construed or used as, financial, legal, tax or investment advice or an offer to sell, or a solicitation of any offer to buy, an interest in any fund advised by Ada Investment Management LP, the Investment advisor.  Any offer or solicitation of an investment in any of the Funds may be made only by delivery of such Funds confidential offering materials to authorized prospective investors.  An investment in any of the Funds is not suitable for all investors.  No representation is made that the Funds will or are likely to achieve their objectives, or that any investor will or is likely to achieve results comparable to those shown, or will make any profit at all or will be able to avoid incurring substantial losses.  Performance results are net of applicable fees, are unaudited and reflect reinvestment of income and profits.  Past performance is no guarantee of future results. All financial data and other information are not warranted as to completeness or accuracy and are subject to change without notice.

Any comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect those of Ada Investment Management LP and its affiliates. This transmission may contain information that is confidential, legally privileged, and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is strictly prohibited. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Oct 19 15:13:26 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 20:13:26 +0100
Subject: Python does not take up available physical memory
In-Reply-To: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063EB8@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
	<CALwzidmU2sCdpCmK9vidSCMt-xhb5FEpydQEkOFwXgfJ_gQZ0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063EB8@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
Message-ID: <5081A656.2050503@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-19 20:04, Pradipto Banerjee wrote:
> I have a 32-bit machine. Can I install a 64-bit build even if my PC is 32-bit?
>
No. A 64-bit build is for a 64-bit PC.



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 15:17:22 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:17:22 -0600
Subject: Python does not take up available physical memory
In-Reply-To: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063EB8@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
	<CALwzidmU2sCdpCmK9vidSCMt-xhb5FEpydQEkOFwXgfJ_gQZ0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063EB8@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnf2sPpR4Uv5ScbRsG8mB8LKw-tGFjSheCZzSX-u0OPCw@mail.gmail.com>

On Oct 19, 2012 1:05 PM, "Pradipto Banerjee" <
pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com> wrote:
>
> I have a 32-bit machine. Can I install a 64-bit build even if my PC is
32-bit?

No. Try following up on Emile's suggestion instead.
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From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Fri Oct 19 15:17:29 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 19:17:29 +0000
Subject: Python does not take up available physical memory
In-Reply-To: <k5s743$6jl$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
	<k5s743$6jl$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671F2DB@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Emile van Sebille wrote:
> On 10/19/2012 10:08 AM, Pradipto Banerjee wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am trying to read a file into memory. The size of the file is around 1
> > GB. I have a 3GB memory PC and the Windows Task Manager shows  2.3 GB
> > available physical memory when I was trying to read the file. I tried to
> > read the file as follows:
> >
> >>>> fdata = open(filename, 'r').read()
> >
> > I got a "MemoryError". I was watching the Windows Task Manager while I
> > run the python command, and it appears that python **perhaps** never
> > even attempted to use more memory but gave me this error.
> >
> > Is there any reason why python can't read a 1GB file in memory even when
> > a 2.3 GB physical memory is available?
> 
> The real issue is likely that there is more than one copy of the file in
> memory somewhere.  I had a similar issue years back that I resolved by
> using numeric (now numpy?) as it had a more efficient method of
> importing content from disk.
> 
> Also realize that windows may not allow the full memory to user space.
> I'm not sure what exactly the restrictions are, but a 4Gb windows box
> doesn't always get you 4Gb of memory.
> 

Windows (by default) limits user space of a 32 bit machine to 2 GB.
This is a bit old but I think still applies to pre-Win7. 
(scroll down to "32-bit Client Effective Memory Limits" )
http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussinovich/archive/2008/07/21/3092070.aspx

Offhand, I am not sure how this works in Win7, but for 32-bit clients
I doubt it has changed much.
This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Fri Oct 19 15:18:26 2012
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 12:18:26 -0700
Subject: Python does not take up available physical memory
In-Reply-To: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063EB5@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
	<k5s743$6jl$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063EB5@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxuP0rPLPZRs-pavXxdho_8_oo3W_KkGeDTNWUbF9g=0hQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Pradipto Banerjee
<pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks, I tried that. Still got MemoryError, but at least this time python tried to use the physical memory. What I noticed is that before it gave me the error it used up to 1.5GB (of the 2.23 GB originally showed as available) - so in general, python takes up more memory than the size of the file itself.
>

By default, 32-bit processes under Windows are restricted to only
using a maximum of 2GB of user-space memory, with the other 2GB
reserved for kernel usage. There are settings for Windows and the
application when compiled to up the limit to 3GB.

You can follow the MSDN entry at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb613473(v=vs.85).aspx
to enable 3GB of space on your Windows box (it requires a reboot),
however I believe the standard Python installations do not have
IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE set, so you will also have to compile a
custom Python instance to get Python to be able to use 3GB of space.
Note that doing so can result in instability and other side-effects:
the Windows options can reduce performance in some cases, and the
process setting can cause crashes or other errors if the application
presumes that user memory always starts with a 0-bit, often used to
save memory in older software.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 15:18:56 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 06:18:56 +1100
Subject: Python does not take up available physical memory
In-Reply-To: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr0Ja0+u-3JNaTXBA8Ua1FykM3Q18pxRRPPg8XNWN3DUw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 4:08 AM, Pradipto Banerjee
<pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com> wrote:
> I am trying to read a file into memory. The size of the file is around 1 GB.
> I have a 3GB memory PC and the Windows Task Manager shows  2.3 GB available
> physical memory when I was trying to read the file. I tried to read the file
> as follows:
>
>
>
>>>> fdata = open(filename, ?r?).read()

Is this Python 2 or Python 3? Just throwing a random possibility out
there, could it be that reading it in and converting it to Unicode
text requires more memory than you have?

My recommendation: Unless you actually need to search the whole file
as a single string, iterate over the file instead:

for line in open(filename):
    # do something with line

Your loop will execute once for each line in the file.

ChrisA


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Fri Oct 19 15:33:46 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 19:33:46 +0000
Subject: Python does not take up available physical memory
In-Reply-To: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063EB5@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
	<k5s743$6jl$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063EB5@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671F317@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Pradipto Banerjee wrote:
> Thanks, I tried that. Still got MemoryError, but at least this time python tried to use the physical memory.
> What I noticed is that before it gave me the error it used up to 1.5GB (of the 2.23 GB originally showed as
> available) - so in general, python takes up more memory than the size of the file itself.


Of course it will. Python has to keep its own code in memory and 
load the file. Not to mention that the file is converted from data 
into a Python object with its own overhead.

Ramit Prasad


This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Fri Oct 19 15:38:54 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 19:38:54 +0000
Subject: Python does not take up available physical memory
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmr0Ja0+u-3JNaTXBA8Ua1FykM3Q18pxRRPPg8XNWN3DUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
	<CAPTjJmr0Ja0+u-3JNaTXBA8Ua1FykM3Q18pxRRPPg8XNWN3DUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671F333@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 4:08 AM, Pradipto Banerjee
> <pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com> wrote:
> > I am trying to read a file into memory. The size of the file is around 1 GB.
> > I have a 3GB memory PC and the Windows Task Manager shows  2.3 GB available
> > physical memory when I was trying to read the file. I tried to read the file
> > as follows:
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> fdata = open(filename, 'r').read()
> 
> Is this Python 2 or Python 3? Just throwing a random possibility out
> there, could it be that reading it in and converting it to Unicode
> text requires more memory than you have?
> 
> My recommendation: Unless you actually need to search the whole file
> as a single string, iterate over the file instead:
> 
> for line in open(filename):
>     # do something with line

If you (OP) are in Python 2.5+ I would do the following instead.

with open(filename) as f:
    for line in f:
        # do something with line

This will automatically close the file when it is done. I doubt
it will help with memory issues, but closing files after you
are done with them is a Good practice.


Ramit Prasad


This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From holleran.kevin at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 15:59:49 2012
From: holleran.kevin at gmail.com (Kevin Holleran)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:59:49 -0400
Subject: Is there a way to programmatically turn on remote registry?
Message-ID: <CAN4UfGy6dkdtKiQ+ghh7=CirS9Lca8DOrHvEiKRefgWUSwVFDA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I have written a script to poll some registry values but remote registry is
turned off through GPO on the network I need to run it against.  The
account running the script is an admin on these boxes.  Is there a way for
me to turn on remote registry for the duration of the script's runtime?

Thanks for your help.

Kevin
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From bbbenrothschild at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 16:11:49 2012
From: bbbenrothschild at gmail.com (bbbenrothschild at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:11:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tkinter Create/Destory Button
Message-ID: <823f8434-f5f2-475c-aada-d02ab62a117f@googlegroups.com>

I am trying to create a button in Tkinter and then when it is pressed delete it/have it disappear. Does anyone know the simplest script to do that with. Thanks for your help.


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Fri Oct 19 16:18:41 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 20:18:41 +0000
Subject: Is there a way to programmatically turn on remote registry?
In-Reply-To: <CAN4UfGy6dkdtKiQ+ghh7=CirS9Lca8DOrHvEiKRefgWUSwVFDA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN4UfGy6dkdtKiQ+ghh7=CirS9Lca8DOrHvEiKRefgWUSwVFDA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671F47B@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Kevin Holleran wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have written a script to poll some registry values but remote registry is turned off through GPO on the
> network I need to run it against. ?The account running the script is an admin on these boxes. ?Is there a way
> for me to turn on remote registry for the duration of the script's runtime?
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> 
> Kevin

No personal experience but the web says you need to enable the remote
registry service[1]. You can start and stop services in Python using
win32serviceutil[2].

[1] http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc754820.aspx
[2] http://fuzzytolerance.info/using-python-to-manage-windows-services/ 

Ramit Prasad


This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Fri Oct 19 16:27:07 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 20:27:07 +0000
Subject: Tkinter Create/Destory Button
In-Reply-To: <823f8434-f5f2-475c-aada-d02ab62a117f@googlegroups.com>
References: <823f8434-f5f2-475c-aada-d02ab62a117f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671F4A6@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

bbbenrothschild at gmail.com wrote:
> I am trying to create a button in Tkinter and then when it is pressed delete it/have it disappear. Does anyone
> know the simplest script to do that with. Thanks for your help.

Try http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/python/python/118851 . 

If you just want to disable/enable the button while leaving it 
visible maybe try setting the config state as shown here: 
http://www.daniweb.com/software-development/python/threads/69669/tkinter-button-disable-# .

Hope that helps,
Ramit Prasad



This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From btemperton at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 17:15:37 2012
From: btemperton at gmail.com (Ben Temperton)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 14:15:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: When to clear elements using cElementTree
In-Reply-To: <42218808-a465-4dd6-b8e6-104c9be6891b@googlegroups.com>
References: <42218808-a465-4dd6-b8e6-104c9be6891b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2dc37d8c-521f-44e5-ab38-43b787a9bc92@googlegroups.com>

I managed to solve this using the following method:

"""Returns a dictionary of indexes of spectra for which there are secondary scans, along with the indexes of those scans
        """
        scans = dict()

        # get an iterable
        context = cElementTree.iterparse(self.info['filename'], events=("end",))

        # turn it into an iterator
        context = iter(context)

        # get the root element
        event, root = context.next()

        for event, elem in context:
            if event == "end" and elem.tag == self.XML_SPACE + "scan":
                parentId = int(elem.get('num'))
                for child in elem.findall(self.XML_SPACE + 'scan'):
                    childId = int(child.get('num'))
                    try:
                        indexes = scans[parentId]
                    except KeyError:
                        indexes = []
                        scans[parentId] = indexes
                    indexes.append(childId)
                    child.clear()
                root.clear()
        return scans

I think the trick is using the 'end' event to determine how much data your iterparse is taking in, but I'm still not quite clear on whether this is the best way to do it.


From kdawg44 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 17:19:56 2012
From: kdawg44 at gmail.com (Kevin Holleran)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 17:19:56 -0400
Subject: Is there a way to programmatically turn on remote registry?
In-Reply-To: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671F47B@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
References: <CAN4UfGy6dkdtKiQ+ghh7=CirS9Lca8DOrHvEiKRefgWUSwVFDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671F47B@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
Message-ID: <CAN4UfGx1JEzaTm_hKLH8Mf1N9qCB_d9qtNUTupFCkctUGaB2wQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks!  I think this is getting me on the right track.  Now when I attempt
to start the RemoteRegistry service I am getting an exception "The RPC
server is unavailable."  However, I am done with this for today so back at
it on Monday.

Thanks for your help.

Kevin


On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Prasad, Ramit <ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com>wrote:

> Kevin Holleran wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have written a script to poll some registry values but remote registry
> is turned off through GPO on the
> > network I need to run it against.  The account running the script is an
> admin on these boxes.  Is there a way
> > for me to turn on remote registry for the duration of the script's
> runtime?
> >
> > Thanks for your help.
> >
> > Kevin
>
> No personal experience but the web says you need to enable the remote
> registry service[1]. You can start and stop services in Python using
> win32serviceutil[2].
>
> [1] http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc754820.aspx
> [2] http://fuzzytolerance.info/using-python-to-manage-windows-services/
>
> Ramit Prasad
>
>
> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
> securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
> confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
> available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Oct 19 17:29:04 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Oct 2012 21:29:04 GMT
Subject: section with in a section config file and reading that config file
References: <b5307867-0aa6-49db-b58d-803850a60d2d@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2502.1350641397.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5081c620$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 12:09:53 +0200, Tarek Ziad? wrote:

> On 10/19/12 11:51 AM, kampy wrote:
>> hi all,
>> my requirement is to have section with in a section in config
>> parameters ex:
>> [AAA]
>>      [BBB]
>>       a=1
>>       b=1
>>      [CCC]
>>       a=1
>>       b=2
>> Any one help me in  understanding how to make sure that config file to
>> have a structure like this and reading with the config parser
>
> a configuration file is a flat sequences of sections, you cannot do this

That is incorrect.

A configuration file is a file containing configuration data. That is all.

"Configuration file" says nothing about the format of the file. It could 
be a Unix .rc file, a Windows .ini file with no section header, a 
Windows .ini file with section headers, a Python source code file, YAML, 
JSON, XML, a PLIST file, or any other format you decide to use.

If the Original Poster wants an ini file with nested sections, he can 
have an ini file with nested sections.

There is no support for nested sections in the ConfigParser module, but 
the ConfigObj third-party module supports it. Otherwise the OP could 
write his own code, possibly by subclassing from ConfigParser.

A simple google for "python ini file nested sections" finds this:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/ConfigParserShootout



-- 
Steven


From nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de  Fri Oct 19 17:34:07 2012
From: nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de (Thomas Rachel)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 23:34:07 +0200
Subject: Python does not take up available physical memory
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2523.1350673875.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
	<k5s743$6jl$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2523.1350673875.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k5sh0g$vju$1@r03.glglgl.gl>

Am 19.10.2012 21:03 schrieb Pradipto Banerjee:

> Thanks, I tried that.

What is "that"? It would be helpful to quote in a reasonable way. Look
how others do it.


> Still got MemoryError, but at least this time python tried to use the
> physical memory. What I noticed is that before it gave me the error
> it used up to 1.5GB (of the 2.23 GB originally showed as available) -
> so in general, python takes up more memory than the size of the file
> itself.

Of course - the file is not the only thing to be held by the process.

I see several approaches here:

* Process the file part by part - as the others already suggested, 
line-wise, but if you have e.g. a binary file format, other partings may 
be suitable as well - e.g. fixed block size, or parts given by the file 
format.

* If you absolutely have to keep the whole file data in memory, split it 
up in several strings. Why? Well, the free space in virtual memory is 
not necessarily contiguous. So even if you have 1.5G free, you might not 
be able to read 1.5G at once, but you might succeed in reading 3*0.5G.



Thomas


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Oct 19 17:37:44 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Oct 2012 21:37:44 GMT
Subject: Python does not take up available physical memory
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
	<CALwzidmU2sCdpCmK9vidSCMt-xhb5FEpydQEkOFwXgfJ_gQZ0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2522.1350673544.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5081c827$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 14:04:21 -0500, Pradipto Banerjee wrote:

> I have a 32-bit machine. Can I install a 64-bit build even if my PC is
> 32-bit?

No. Well, you could try, and if the installer did no error checking it 
might even install the 64-bit exe onto your computer, but it would crash 
when you try to run it.

A 64-bit build requires a 64-bit operating system and 64-bit hardware. A 
32-bit build can be used in either system.


-- 
Steven


From tarek at ziade.org  Fri Oct 19 17:59:03 2012
From: tarek at ziade.org (=?UTF-8?B?VGFyZWsgWmlhZMOp?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 23:59:03 +0200
Subject: section with in a section config file and reading that config file
In-Reply-To: <5081c620$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <b5307867-0aa6-49db-b58d-803850a60d2d@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2502.1350641397.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081c620$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <5081CD27.2040706@ziade.org>

On 10/19/12 11:29 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 12:09:53 +0200, Tarek Ziad? wrote:
>
>> On 10/19/12 11:51 AM, kampy wrote:
>>> hi all,
>>> my requirement is to have section with in a section in config
>>> parameters ex:
>>> [AAA]
>>>       [BBB]
>>>        a=1
>>>        b=1
>>>       [CCC]
>>>        a=1
>>>        b=2
>>> Any one help me in  understanding how to make sure that config file to
>>> have a structure like this and reading with the config parser
>> a configuration file is a flat sequences of sections, you cannot do this
> That is incorrect.
uh ?
>
> A configuration file is a file containing configuration data. That is all.
yeah,
organized in [sections]. a flat list of sections.

>
> "Configuration file" says nothing about the format of the file. It could
> be a Unix .rc file, a Windows .ini file with no section header, a
> Windows .ini file with section headers, a Python source code file, YAML,
> JSON, XML, a PLIST file, or any other format you decide to use.
>
> If the Original Poster wants an ini file with nested sections, he can
> have an ini file with nested sections.

That's not an ini file anymore. That's a Foord-file :)

There's no notion of nested sections in ini configuration files, since 
there's no syntax marker to do the nesting

see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INI_file#Sections

>
> There is no support for nested sections in the ConfigParser module, but
> the ConfigObj third-party module supports it. Otherwise the OP could
> write his own code, possibly by subclassing from ConfigParser.
This is not a ini configuration file anymore, since it introduces ad-hoc 
markers added that
are not recognized by other parsers.

Which is fine.

But instead of using an exotic, ad-hoc, look-alike ini file,
I strongly recommend using a standard that has native nested elements 
(json or yaml)

Cheers
Tarek



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Oct 19 18:12:27 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Oct 2012 22:12:27 GMT
Subject: Python does not take up available physical memory
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
	<k5s743$6jl$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2523.1350673875.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5081d04b$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 14:03:37 -0500, Pradipto Banerjee wrote:

> Thanks, I tried that. Still got MemoryError, but at least this time
> python tried to use the physical memory. What I noticed is that before
> it gave me the error it used up to 1.5GB (of the 2.23 GB originally
> showed as available) - so in general, python takes up more memory than
> the size of the file itself.

Well of course it does. Once you read the data into memory, it has its 
own overhead for the object structure.

You haven't told us what the file is or how you are reading it. I'm going 
to assume it is ASCII text and you are using Python 2.

py> open("test file", "w").write("abcde")
py> os.stat("test file").st_size
5L
py> text = open("test file", "r").read()
py> len(text)
5
py> sys.getsizeof(text)
26

So that confirms that a five byte ASCII string takes up five bytes on 
disk but 26 bytes in memory as an object.

That overhead will depend on what sort of object, whether Unicode or not, 
the version of Python, and how you read the data.

In general, if you have a huge amount of data to work with, you should 
try to work with it one line at a time:

for line in open("some file"):
    process(line)


rather than reading the whole file into memory at once:

lines = open("some file").readlines()
for line in lines:
    process(line)



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Oct 19 18:14:27 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Oct 2012 22:14:27 GMT
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 11:21:06 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> Using 80+ char lines doesn't mean
> I put all my efforts exceeding the 80 char limit.

I didn't say it did. I was describing some of the reasons people might 
choose to stick to the 79 character limit, beyond the reason you gave, 
which quite frankly is the least important reason. 80 character 
terminals? Who still uses them? Well, a few people, but they're in a 
minority. But caring about the readability of code? Everyone needs to 
read code at some point, and 79 characters is a good balance between 
stuffing too much into a single line and spreading it out too thinly over 
multiple lines.


> As a matter of fact, I
> never get the char limit get into the way of readability. What needs to
> be short will be short, and what needs to be long will be long.

Code never *needs* to be long, because it can always be shortened.

Some code might be more conveniently written as a single long line. But I 
would argue that nearly never is code more easily *read* as a single long 
line, and since code is read much more than it is written, it is more 
important to optimise for reading, not writing.



-- 
Steven


From shobbo at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 18:16:53 2012
From: shobbo at gmail.com (Krzysztof Voss)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:16:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1253911f-9e32-41b4-8de8-fbe005271208@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 12:06:43 AM UTC-6, Zero Piraeus wrote:
> :
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, so, first thing vaguely Python-related that comes to mind [so
> 
> probably not even slightly original, but then that's not really the
> 
> point]:
> 
> 
> 
> What are people's preferred strategies for dealing with lines that go
> 
> over 79 characters? A few I can think of off the bat:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Say "screw it" and go past 79, PEP8 be damned.
> 
Once you ":set cc=79", you never want to cross it.

> 
> 
> 2. Say "screw it" and break the line using a backslash.
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Say "well, at least it's not a backslash" and break the line using
> 
> parentheses.
> 
> 
Some nice, IMHO, tips on the style can be found in:
http://google-styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/pyguide.html#Line_length


Cheers!


From shobbo at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 18:16:53 2012
From: shobbo at gmail.com (Krzysztof Voss)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:16:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2403.1350540402.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1253911f-9e32-41b4-8de8-fbe005271208@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 12:06:43 AM UTC-6, Zero Piraeus wrote:
> :
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, so, first thing vaguely Python-related that comes to mind [so
> 
> probably not even slightly original, but then that's not really the
> 
> point]:
> 
> 
> 
> What are people's preferred strategies for dealing with lines that go
> 
> over 79 characters? A few I can think of off the bat:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Say "screw it" and go past 79, PEP8 be damned.
> 
Once you ":set cc=79", you never want to cross it.

> 
> 
> 2. Say "screw it" and break the line using a backslash.
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Say "well, at least it's not a backslash" and break the line using
> 
> parentheses.
> 
> 
Some nice, IMHO, tips on the style can be found in:
http://google-styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/pyguide.html#Line_length


Cheers!


From pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com  Fri Oct 19 18:20:23 2012
From: pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com (Pradipto Banerjee)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 17:20:23 -0500
Subject: Python does not take up available physical memory
In-Reply-To: <5081d04b$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
	<k5s743$6jl$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2523.1350673875.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d04b$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063F6B@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>

Thanks, for the illustration. This seems to be one of the biggest shortcomings of Python vs. Matlab. A number of people told me to read one line at a time, but I have a need to run processes on the whole data, e.g. compare one line versus another. So that option doesn't work.

-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+pradipto.banerjee=adainvestments.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Steven D'Aprano
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 6:12 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Python does not take up available physical memory

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 14:03:37 -0500, Pradipto Banerjee wrote:

> Thanks, I tried that. Still got MemoryError, but at least this time
> python tried to use the physical memory. What I noticed is that before
> it gave me the error it used up to 1.5GB (of the 2.23 GB originally
> showed as available) - so in general, python takes up more memory than
> the size of the file itself.

Well of course it does. Once you read the data into memory, it has its
own overhead for the object structure.

You haven't told us what the file is or how you are reading it. I'm going
to assume it is ASCII text and you are using Python 2.

py> open("test file", "w").write("abcde")
py> os.stat("test file").st_size
5L
py> text = open("test file", "r").read()
py> len(text)
5
py> sys.getsizeof(text)
26

So that confirms that a five byte ASCII string takes up five bytes on
disk but 26 bytes in memory as an object.

That overhead will depend on what sort of object, whether Unicode or not,
the version of Python, and how you read the data.

In general, if you have a huge amount of data to work with, you should
try to work with it one line at a time:

for line in open("some file"):
    process(line)


rather than reading the whole file into memory at once:

lines = open("some file").readlines()
for line in lines:
    process(line)



--
Steven
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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From pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com  Fri Oct 19 18:22:15 2012
From: pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com (Pradipto Banerjee)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 17:22:15 -0500
Subject: Python does not take up available physical memory
In-Reply-To: <9oi388heolcjt1es6em5f9c93q73cranbh@invalid.netcom.com>
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
	<9oi388heolcjt1es6em5f9c93q73cranbh@invalid.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063F6D@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>

Dennis,

1. Yes, .readlines() work where .read() fails. Thanks for the suggestion - this has really given a big boost to the size of the data I can read.
2. Yes, I am running the python interpretation within the IDE (Spyder).

Thanks


-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+pradipto.banerjee=adainvestments.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Lee Bieber
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 6:01 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Python does not take up available physical memory

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 12:08:53 -0500, Pradipto Banerjee
<pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com> declaimed the following in
gmane.comp.python.general:

> Hi,
>
> I am trying to read a file into memory. The size of the file is around 1 GB. I have a 3GB memory PC and the Windows Task Manager shows  2.3 GB available physical memory when I was trying to read the file. I tried to read the file as follows:

1)      32-bit Windows OS can only physically address 4GB BUT
2)      Unless you have a SERVER version of windows, the most allocated to a
user process is 2GB (there is a boot-time parameter which can configure
WinXP [for example] to allow 3GB to user processes -- the last GB is
always reserved for the OS)

> Is there any reason why python can't read a 1GB file in memory even when a 2.3 GB physical memory is available? Do I need to make a change in some setting or preferences?
>
> I am using python(x,y) distribution (python 2.7) and use Spyder as the IDE.
>
        Are you /running/ from within the IDE -- such that the Python
interpreter is considered part of the IDE address space?

        <snipped>

        My first thought would be that you should NOT be loading an entire
GB file as one chunk (for all I know, Windows low-level I/O read the
file into a OS buffer [1GB] and then tries to pass it on to the Python
memory buffer [another 1GB]... Or Python is reading in chunks -- say 1MB
at a time, and appending chunks... That means it goes "whoops, I've got
a 512MB data buffer and just read another 1MB -- better allocate a 768MB
buffer [total now is 512 + 768 + 1 => 1281MB], copy the 512MB into the
new buffer, append the 1MB, NOW free the older 512MB... You might have
the raw memory, but it may be fragmented such that the system can not
allocate a contiguous 1MB chunk).

        If .readlines() works when .read() fails, it is memory fragmentation
(each parsed line is an individual chunk of memory since the list of
lines is just a list of addresses to the lines)
--
        Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
        wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Oct 19 18:59:15 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Oct 2012 22:59:15 GMT
Subject: section with in a section config file and reading that config file
References: <b5307867-0aa6-49db-b58d-803850a60d2d@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2502.1350641397.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081c620$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2537.1350683947.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5081db43$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 23:59:03 +0200, Tarek Ziad? wrote:

> On 10/19/12 11:29 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 12:09:53 +0200, Tarek Ziad? wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/19/12 11:51 AM, kampy wrote:
>>>> hi all,
>>>> my requirement is to have section with in a section in config
>>>> parameters ex:
>>>> [AAA]
>>>>       [BBB]
>>>>        a=1
>>>>        b=1
>>>>       [CCC]
>>>>        a=1
>>>>        b=2
>>>> Any one help me in  understanding how to make sure that config file
>>>> to have a structure like this and reading with the config parser
>>> a configuration file is a flat sequences of sections, you cannot do
>>> this
>> That is incorrect.

> uh ?

"That is incorrect" means that your statement was wrong. Configuration 
files are NOT flat sequences of sections. *Some* configuration files are 
flat sequences of sections, some are nested, hierarchical sections, and 
some do not have sections at all.


>> A configuration file is a file containing configuration data. That is
>> all.
> yeah,
> organized in [sections]. a flat list of sections.

No, you are making the same wrong statement.

I have hundreds of configuration files on my computer, and very few of 
them are a flat list of sections.


>> "Configuration file" says nothing about the format of the file. It
>> could be a Unix .rc file, a Windows .ini file with no section header, a
>> Windows .ini file with section headers, a Python source code file,
>> YAML, JSON, XML, a PLIST file, or any other format you decide to use.
>>
>> If the Original Poster wants an ini file with nested sections, he can
>> have an ini file with nested sections.
> 
> That's not an ini file anymore. That's a Foord-file :)

Who cares? Did the poster say that he needed an INI file? No he did not. 
He says he needs a configuration file, and that is *much* more general 
than just INI files. Not all configuration files are INI files.

The poster says he needs a list of key:value pairs split into nested 
sections. Who cares if that is an INI file or not? It is still a 
configuration file, and he can have such a file if he wants.

You might as well complain that his sample config was not valid Python 
code. Who cares if it is not valid Python code, he didn't ask for valid 
Python code, and he didn't ask for a valid INI file.


-- 
Steven


From lars at rational-it.com  Fri Oct 19 19:43:40 2012
From: lars at rational-it.com (lars van gemerden)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 16:43:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: use of exec()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2446.1350573409.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <2f12fa83-54cc-4fc2-85e4-b8aebebf4242@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2425.1350560975.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<05702a47-ff6b-4589-8352-d21b1921e77e@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2438.1350570579.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<2e5df7eb-7781-4c32-a9a7-088be940a4d3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2446.1350573409.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f2e6fa02-58ad-4c7f-bc82-6f8eb9330b26@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 5:16:50 PM UTC+2, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 2:00 AM, lars van gemerden <lars at rational-it.com> wrote:
> 
> > I get your point, since in this case having the custom code option makes the system a whole lot less complex and flexible, i will leave the option in. The future customer will be informed that they should handle the security around the designers as if they were programmers. Aditionally i will probably add some screening for unwanted keywords (like 'import') and securely log any new/changed custom code including the designer account (must do that for other actions anyway).
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds like a reasonable implementation of Layer Eight security.
> 
> As long as everyone understands that this code can do ANYTHING, you'll
> 
> be fine.
> 
> 
> 
> You may want to add some other programmatic checks, though; for
> 
> instance, a watchdog timer in case the code gets stuck in an infinite
> 
> loop, or a memory usage limit, or somesuch. Since you're no longer
> 
> worrying about security, this sort of thing will be fairly easy, and
> 
> will be just to help catch common errors.
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisA

Do you have any ideas about to what extend the "lambda" version of the code (custom code is only the 'body' of the lambda function) has the same issues?

Cheers, Lars 


From lars at rational-it.com  Fri Oct 19 19:43:40 2012
From: lars at rational-it.com (lars van gemerden)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 16:43:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: use of exec()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2446.1350573409.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <2f12fa83-54cc-4fc2-85e4-b8aebebf4242@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2425.1350560975.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<05702a47-ff6b-4589-8352-d21b1921e77e@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2438.1350570579.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<2e5df7eb-7781-4c32-a9a7-088be940a4d3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2446.1350573409.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f2e6fa02-58ad-4c7f-bc82-6f8eb9330b26@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 5:16:50 PM UTC+2, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 2:00 AM, lars van gemerden <lars at rational-it.com> wrote:
> 
> > I get your point, since in this case having the custom code option makes the system a whole lot less complex and flexible, i will leave the option in. The future customer will be informed that they should handle the security around the designers as if they were programmers. Aditionally i will probably add some screening for unwanted keywords (like 'import') and securely log any new/changed custom code including the designer account (must do that for other actions anyway).
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds like a reasonable implementation of Layer Eight security.
> 
> As long as everyone understands that this code can do ANYTHING, you'll
> 
> be fine.
> 
> 
> 
> You may want to add some other programmatic checks, though; for
> 
> instance, a watchdog timer in case the code gets stuck in an infinite
> 
> loop, or a memory usage limit, or somesuch. Since you're no longer
> 
> worrying about security, this sort of thing will be fairly easy, and
> 
> will be just to help catch common errors.
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisA

Do you have any ideas about to what extend the "lambda" version of the code (custom code is only the 'body' of the lambda function) has the same issues?

Cheers, Lars 


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Oct 19 20:43:03 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 01:43:03 +0100
Subject: Preventing crap email from google?
Message-ID: <k5srto$aqr$1@ger.gmane.org>

Good morning/afternoon/evening all,

Is there any possibility that we could find a way to prevent the double 
spaced rubbish that comes from G$ infiltrating this ng/ml?  For example, 
does Python have anybody who works for G$ who could pull a few strings, 
preferably a Dutch national who has named a quite well known programming 
language after a humorous BBC television programme?

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 22:00:51 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 13:00:51 +1100
Subject: use of exec()
In-Reply-To: <f2e6fa02-58ad-4c7f-bc82-6f8eb9330b26@googlegroups.com>
References: <2f12fa83-54cc-4fc2-85e4-b8aebebf4242@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2425.1350560975.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<05702a47-ff6b-4589-8352-d21b1921e77e@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2438.1350570579.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<2e5df7eb-7781-4c32-a9a7-088be940a4d3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2446.1350573409.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<f2e6fa02-58ad-4c7f-bc82-6f8eb9330b26@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqGWnSeKVmSF2-Kjzr0pjdh0+KGhwB5Bz7Wf4KHZUmdSQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 10:43 AM, lars van gemerden
<lars at rational-it.com> wrote:
> Do you have any ideas about to what extend the "lambda" version of the code (custom code is only the 'body' of the lambda function) has the same issues?

The lambda version definitely has the same issues. You can do pretty
much anything with a single expression.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 22:15:10 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 13:15:10 +1100
Subject: Python does not take up available physical memory
In-Reply-To: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063F6D@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
	<9oi388heolcjt1es6em5f9c93q73cranbh@invalid.netcom.com>
	<76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063F6D@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrtTybvdv=q9TYg9d7+sKh_VHjR7Q84Gk+m_u9xPLiD+w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 9:22 AM, Pradipto Banerjee
<pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com> wrote:
> Dennis,
>
> 1. Yes, .readlines() work where .read() fails. Thanks for the suggestion - this has really given a big boost to the size of the data I can read.

If at all possible, consider reading the file iteratively and
retaining only the current line. You say you need to "compare one line
versus another" - are you able, for instance, to sort the file
(externally; I think every OS these days will have a sort utility that
can handle files >RAM) and then compare the current line against a
small amount of retained state? This sort (pun intended) of trick can
not only get you past the limit, it will often improve running time
enormously too.

ChrisA


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Fri Oct 19 23:27:49 2012
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 22:27:49 -0500
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <50821A35.5070907@tim.thechases.com>

On 10/19/12 17:14, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Code never *needs* to be long, because it can always be shortened.

I advocate one bit per line:

1
0
1
0
0
1
0
1
1
0
0
1
0
1
1
1
0
0
0
0
1
1
1
0
1
1
0
0
1
1
0
1
1
0
0
1
1
1
1
0
0
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

?grins, ducks, and flees?

Shortenedly-yers,

-tkc



From torriem at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 23:35:14 2012
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 21:35:14 -0600
Subject: Preventing crap email from google?
In-Reply-To: <k5srto$aqr$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <k5srto$aqr$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <50821BF2.60007@gmail.com>

On 10/19/2012 06:43 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> Good morning/afternoon/evening all,
> 
> Is there any possibility that we could find a way to prevent the double 
> spaced rubbish that comes from G$ infiltrating this ng/ml?  For example, 
> does Python have anybody who works for G$ who could pull a few strings, 
> preferably a Dutch national who has named a quite well known programming 
> language after a humorous BBC television programme?

I don't know what G$ is, but from your subject, I assume you are
complaining about posts from gmail users, of which I am one.  However my
messages have never been double-spaced.  And I haven't noticed any
recently either.  I just checked and the last dozen or so posts from
gmail accounts don't appear to have any problems.



From contropinion at gmail.com  Sat Oct 20 00:09:58 2012
From: contropinion at gmail.com (contro opinion)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 00:09:58 -0400
Subject: change the first letter into uppercase (ask)
Message-ID: <CA+YdQ_5DAp88HJiQnW9ejDuQGomW5X_b1dUP_sygJB+7s_9iyg@mail.gmail.com>

how can i use  regular expression  in  python  to change the string
"a test of capitalizing"
into
"A Test Of Capitalizing"?
-------------- next part --------------
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From rurpy at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 20 00:21:11 2012
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 21:21:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Preventing crap email from google?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2545.1350693647.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2545.1350693647.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <acec005e-1799-4f9c-9b56-b335ff0b4db5@googlegroups.com>

[I posted the following in another thread yesterday...]

When you post from Google Groups you will sometimes
see a checkbox above the edit window that is a cc to
the python mailing list (<python-list at python.org>) 
which is checked by default.  

If you uncheck that, you'll stop the double posting.


From d at davea.name  Sat Oct 20 00:21:14 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 00:21:14 -0400
Subject: change the first letter into uppercase (ask)
In-Reply-To: <CA+YdQ_5DAp88HJiQnW9ejDuQGomW5X_b1dUP_sygJB+7s_9iyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YdQ_5DAp88HJiQnW9ejDuQGomW5X_b1dUP_sygJB+7s_9iyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508226BA.7000105@davea.name>

On 10/20/2012 12:09 AM, contro opinion wrote:
> how can i use  regular expression  in  python  to change the string
> "a test of capitalizing"
> into
> "A Test Of Capitalizing"?
>
>

is that (regex) part of the assignment, or just how you assumed you'd
want to do it?

There is a str method already called title().  Check to see if that's
what you want.



-- 

DaveA



From schesis at gmail.com  Sat Oct 20 01:03:46 2012
From: schesis at gmail.com (Zero Piraeus)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 01:03:46 -0400
Subject: change the first letter into uppercase (ask)
In-Reply-To: <CA+YdQ_5DAp88HJiQnW9ejDuQGomW5X_b1dUP_sygJB+7s_9iyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YdQ_5DAp88HJiQnW9ejDuQGomW5X_b1dUP_sygJB+7s_9iyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANaSqUfHejaD-esy8o573KfZ1UJsNTbw4ziq0DN4ehEjU0ACJw@mail.gmail.com>

:

On 20 October 2012 00:09, contro opinion <contropinion at gmail.com> wrote:
> how can i use  regular expression  in  python  to change the string
> "a test of capitalizing"
> into
> "A Test Of Capitalizing"?

>>> import re
>>> pattern = re.compile(".(?#nyh2p){0,1}")
>>> result = ""
>>> f = str.title
>>> for match in re.findall(pattern, "a test of capitalizing"):
...   result = f(result + match)
...
>>> print(result)
A Test Of Capitalizing
>>>

 -[]z.


From alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr  Sat Oct 20 01:09:56 2012
From: alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (Alain Ketterlin)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 07:09:56 +0200
Subject: Python does not take up available physical memory
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
	<k5s743$6jl$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2523.1350673875.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5sh0g$vju$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
Message-ID: <87happbufv.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>

Thomas Rachel
<nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de>
writes:

> Am 19.10.2012 21:03 schrieb Pradipto Banerjee:

[...]
>> Still got MemoryError, but at least this time python tried to use the
>> physical memory. What I noticed is that before it gave me the error
>> it used up to 1.5GB (of the 2.23 GB originally showed as available) -
>> so in general, python takes up more memory than the size of the file
>> itself.
>
> Of course - the file is not the only thing to be held by the process.
>
> I see several approaches here:
>
> * Process the file part by part - as the others already suggested,
> line-wise, but if you have e.g. a binary file format, other partings
> may be suitable as well - e.g. fixed block size, or parts given by the
> file format.
>
> * If you absolutely have to keep the whole file data in memory, split
> it up in several strings. Why? Well, the free space in virtual memory
> is not necessarily contiguous. So even if you have 1.5G free, you
> might not be able to read 1.5G at once, but you might succeed in
> reading 3*0.5G.

* try mmap, if you're lucky it will give you access to your data.

(Note that it is completely unreasonable to load several Gs of data in a
32-bit address space, especially if this is text. So my real advice
would be:

* read the file line per line and pack the contents of every line into
  a list of objects; once you have all your stuff, process it

-- Alain.


From emile at fenx.com  Sat Oct 20 02:46:09 2012
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 23:46:09 -0700
Subject: Python does not take up available physical memory
In-Reply-To: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
Message-ID: <k5s743$6jl$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/19/2012 10:08 AM, Pradipto Banerjee wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to read a file into memory. The size of the file is around 1
> GB. I have a 3GB memory PC and the Windows Task Manager shows  2.3 GB
> available physical memory when I was trying to read the file. I tried to
> read the file as follows:
>
>>>> fdata = open(filename, ?r?).read()
>
> I got a ?MemoryError?. I was watching the Windows Task Manager while I
> run the python command, and it appears that python **perhaps** never
> even attempted to use more memory but gave me this error.
>
> Is there any reason why python can?t read a 1GB file in memory even when
> a 2.3 GB physical memory is available?

The real issue is likely that there is more than one copy of the file in 
memory somewhere.  I had a similar issue years back that I resolved by 
using numeric (now numpy?) as it had a more efficient method of 
importing content from disk.

Also realize that windows may not allow the full memory to user space. 
I'm not sure what exactly the restrictions are, but a 4Gb windows box 
doesn't always get you 4Gb of memory.

Emile




From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sat Oct 20 03:33:40 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 00:33:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Preventing crap email from google?
References: <k5srto$aqr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2550.1350704129.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <16f10b28-8893-4721-b572-b5c9a1f2b610@m5g2000pbv.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 20, 8:35?am, Michael Torrie <torr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/19/2012 06:43 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>
> > Good morning/afternoon/evening all,
>
> > Is there any possibility that we could find a way to prevent the double
> > spaced rubbish that comes from G$ infiltrating this ng/ml? ?For example,
> > does Python have anybody who works for G$ who could pull a few strings,
> > preferably a Dutch national who has named a quite well known programming
> > language after a humorous BBC television programme?
>
> I don't know what G$ is, but from your subject, I assume you are
> complaining about posts from gmail users, of which I am one. ?However my
> messages have never been double-spaced. ?And I haven't noticed any
> recently either. ?I just checked and the last dozen or so posts from
> gmail accounts don't appear to have any problems.

Heres something that has worked so far:
Login to gmail
Login to googlegroups in another tab
Logout of gmail
Reload the groups page -- your name which was on the left corner
should be replaced by a sign-in
And a 'wheel'
The wheel should give you a choice for 'old' (aka non-buggy) interface



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sat Oct 20 03:35:53 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 00:35:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2549.1350703619.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9ffbd3f0-f0fd-4159-bf51-256922f2c1c2@6g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 20, 8:27?am, Tim Chase <python.l... at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> On 10/19/12 17:14, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
> > Code never *needs* to be long, because it can always be shortened.
>
> I advocate one bit per line:
>
> 1
> 0
> 1
> 0
> 0
> 1
> 0
> 1
> 1
> 0
> 0
> 1
> 0
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 0
> 0
> 0
> 0
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 0
> 1
> 1
> 0
> 0
> 1
> 1
> 0
> 1
> 1
> 0
> 0
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 0
> 0
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
>
> ?grins, ducks, and flees?
>
> Shortenedly-yers,
>
> -tkc

T
H
A
N
K
S

T
I
M
(for the sanity)


From nameDOTportua at gmail.com  Sat Oct 20 04:05:41 2012
From: nameDOTportua at gmail.com (Jennie)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 10:05:41 +0200
Subject: How to see the __name__ attribute of a class by using dir()
Message-ID: <k5tm0k$sph$1@speranza.aioe.org>

The dir() built-in does not show the __name__ attribute of a class:

 >>> '__name__' in Foo.__dict__
False
 >>> Foo.__name__
'Foo'

I implementd my custom __dir__, but the dir() built-in do not want to 
call it:

 >>> class Foo:
...     @classmethod
...     def __dir__(cls):
...         return ['python']
...
 >>> Foo.__dir__()
['python']
 >>> dir(Foo)
['__class__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', ...]

Can someone tell me where is the problem? Thanks a lot in advance
-- 
Jennie


From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Oct 20 04:24:36 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 10:24:36 +0200
Subject: How to see the __name__ attribute of a class by using dir()
References: <k5tm0k$sph$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <k5tn3u$lki$1@ger.gmane.org>

Jennie wrote:

> The dir() built-in does not show the __name__ attribute of a class:
> 
>  >>> '__name__' in Foo.__dict__
> False
>  >>> Foo.__name__
> 'Foo'
> 
> I implementd my custom __dir__, but the dir() built-in do not want to
> call it:
> 
>  >>> class Foo:
> ...     @classmethod
> ...     def __dir__(cls):
> ...         return ['python']
> ...
>  >>> Foo.__dir__()
> ['python']
>  >>> dir(Foo)
> ['__class__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', ...]
> 
> Can someone tell me where is the problem? Thanks a lot in advance

Implementing __dir__ as an instance method works:

>>> class Foo(object):
...     def __dir__(self): return ["python"]
... 
>>> dir(Foo())
['python']

So if you want to customise dir(Foo) you have to modify the metaclass:

>>> class Foo:
...     class __metaclass__(type):
...             def __dir__(self): return ["python"]
... 
>>> dir(Foo)
['python']




From grahn+nntp at snipabacken.se  Sat Oct 20 04:52:47 2012
From: grahn+nntp at snipabacken.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 20 Oct 2012 08:52:47 GMT
Subject: Preventing crap email from google?
References: <k5srto$aqr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2550.1350704129.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnk84pit.1d3.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Sat, 2012-10-20, Michael Torrie wrote:
> On 10/19/2012 06:43 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>> Good morning/afternoon/evening all,
>> 
>> Is there any possibility that we could find a way to prevent the double 
>> spaced rubbish that comes from G$ infiltrating this ng/ml?  For example, 
>> does Python have anybody who works for G$ who could pull a few strings, 
>> preferably a Dutch national who has named a quite well known programming 
>> language after a humorous BBC television programme?
>
> I don't know what G$ is, but from your subject, I assume you are
> complaining about posts from gmail users, of which I am one.  However my
> messages have never been double-spaced.  And I haven't noticed any
> recently either.  I just checked and the last dozen or so posts from
> gmail accounts don't appear to have any problems.

He's probably talking about Google Groups and its "integration" with
Usenet. (I'm seeing this as the comp.lang.python newsgroup, via a real
news reader and a real Usenet provider.  I am vaguely aware that it's
also a mailing list.)

Google Groups has a long history of creating broken Usenet postings in
new and exciting ways.  It's at least as bad as MS Outlook Express and
AOL were in Usenet's past.

Your own posting (or mail) is almost flawless: correct quoting, and a
properly formatted response.  But you seem to be using gmail and the
mailing list interface; that's not the technology he's complaining
about.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .


From marco.buttu at gmail.com  Sat Oct 20 04:59:36 2012
From: marco.buttu at gmail.com (Jennie)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 10:59:36 +0200
Subject: How to see the __name__ attribute of a class by using dir()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2554.1350721484.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <k5tm0k$sph$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.2554.1350721484.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <508267F8.5030302@gmail.com>

On 10/20/2012 10:24 AM, Peter Otten wrote:

> So if you want to customise dir(Foo) you have to modify the metaclass:
>
>>>> >>>class Foo:
> ...     class __metaclass__(type):
> ...             def __dir__(self): return ["python"]
> ...
>>>> >>>dir(Foo)
> ['python']
>
>

Hi Peter, thanks for your answer, but it does not work (Python 3.3):

 >>> class Foo:
...     class __metaclass__(type):
...         def __dir__(self): return ["python"]
...
 >>> dir(Foo)
['__class__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', '__dir__', ...]

Regards,
-- 
Jennie


From nameDOTportua at gmail.com  Sat Oct 20 04:59:36 2012
From: nameDOTportua at gmail.com (Jennie)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 10:59:36 +0200
Subject: How to see the __name__ attribute of a class by using dir()
References: <k5tm0k$sph$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.2554.1350721484.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <508267F8.5030302@gmail.com>

On 10/20/2012 10:24 AM, Peter Otten wrote:

> So if you want to customise dir(Foo) you have to modify the metaclass:
>
>>>> >>>class Foo:
> ...     class __metaclass__(type):
> ...             def __dir__(self): return ["python"]
> ...
>>>> >>>dir(Foo)
> ['python']
>
>

Hi Peter, thanks for your answer, but it does not work (Python 3.3):

 >>> class Foo:
...     class __metaclass__(type):
...         def __dir__(self): return ["python"]
...
 >>> dir(Foo)
['__class__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', '__dir__', ...]

Regards,
-- 
Jennie


From phd at phdru.name  Sat Oct 20 05:29:52 2012
From: phd at phdru.name (Oleg Broytman)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 13:29:52 +0400
Subject: SQLObject 1.3.2 and 1.2.4
Message-ID: <20121020092952.GA7853@iskra.aviel.ru>

Hello!

I'm pleased to announce versions 1.3 2 and 1.2.4, minor bugfix releases
of SQLObject.


What is SQLObject
=================

SQLObject is an object-relational mapper.  Your database tables are described
as classes, and rows are instances of those classes.  SQLObject is meant to be
easy to use and quick to get started with.

SQLObject supports a number of backends: MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQLite,
Firebird, Sybase, MSSQL and MaxDB (also known as SAPDB).


Where is SQLObject
==================

Site:
http://sqlobject.org

Development:
http://sqlobject.org/devel/

Mailing list:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/sqlobject-discuss

Archives:
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.sqlobject

Download:
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/SQLObject/1.3.2
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/SQLObject/1.2.4

News and changes:
http://sqlobject.org/News.html


What's New
==========

* Fixed a bug in sqlbuilder.Select.filter - removed comparison with
  SQLTrueClause.

* Neil Muller fixed a number of tests.

For a more complete list, please see the news:
http://sqlobject.org/News.html

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytman            http://phdru.name/            phd at phdru.name
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.


From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Oct 20 05:43:25 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 11:43:25 +0200
Subject: How to see the __name__ attribute of a class by using dir()
References: <k5tm0k$sph$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.2554.1350721484.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508267F8.5030302@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k5trno$ltq$1@ger.gmane.org>

Jennie wrote:

> On 10/20/2012 10:24 AM, Peter Otten wrote:
> 
>> So if you want to customise dir(Foo) you have to modify the metaclass:
>>
>>>>> >>>class Foo:
>> ...     class __metaclass__(type):
>> ...             def __dir__(self): return ["python"]
>> ...
>>>>> >>>dir(Foo)
>> ['python']
>>
>>
> 
> Hi Peter, thanks for your answer, but it does not work (Python 3.3):
> 
>  >>> class Foo:
> ...     class __metaclass__(type):
> ...         def __dir__(self): return ["python"]
> ...
>  >>> dir(Foo)
> ['__class__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', '__dir__', ...]

In Python 3 the way to specify the metaclass has changed:

>>> class FooType(type):
...     def __dir__(self): return ["python"]
... 
>>> class Foo(metaclass=FooType):
...     pass
... 
>>> dir(Foo)
['python']




From lars at rational-it.com  Sat Oct 20 06:41:10 2012
From: lars at rational-it.com (lars van gemerden)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 03:41:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: use of exec()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2547.1350698454.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <2f12fa83-54cc-4fc2-85e4-b8aebebf4242@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2425.1350560975.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<05702a47-ff6b-4589-8352-d21b1921e77e@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2438.1350570579.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<2e5df7eb-7781-4c32-a9a7-088be940a4d3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2446.1350573409.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<f2e6fa02-58ad-4c7f-bc82-6f8eb9330b26@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2547.1350698454.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d591a412-5a57-43a8-9de9-bb7f0fef667d@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, October 20, 2012 4:00:55 AM UTC+2, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 10:43 AM, lars van gemerden
> 
> <lars at rational-it.com> wrote:
> 
> > Do you have any ideas about to what extend the "lambda" version of the code (custom code is only the 'body' of the lambda function) has the same issues?
> 
> 
> 
> The lambda version definitely has the same issues. You can do pretty
> 
> much anything with a single expression.
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisA

Thanks a lot Chris, I will return later to the watchdog/memory limit ideas (no idea how to do that yet).



From lars at rational-it.com  Sat Oct 20 06:41:10 2012
From: lars at rational-it.com (lars van gemerden)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 03:41:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: use of exec()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2547.1350698454.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <2f12fa83-54cc-4fc2-85e4-b8aebebf4242@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2425.1350560975.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<05702a47-ff6b-4589-8352-d21b1921e77e@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2438.1350570579.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<2e5df7eb-7781-4c32-a9a7-088be940a4d3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2446.1350573409.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<f2e6fa02-58ad-4c7f-bc82-6f8eb9330b26@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2547.1350698454.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d591a412-5a57-43a8-9de9-bb7f0fef667d@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, October 20, 2012 4:00:55 AM UTC+2, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 10:43 AM, lars van gemerden
> 
> <lars at rational-it.com> wrote:
> 
> > Do you have any ideas about to what extend the "lambda" version of the code (custom code is only the 'body' of the lambda function) has the same issues?
> 
> 
> 
> The lambda version definitely has the same issues. You can do pretty
> 
> much anything with a single expression.
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisA

Thanks a lot Chris, I will return later to the watchdog/memory limit ideas (no idea how to do that yet).



From marco.buttu at gmail.com  Sat Oct 20 07:19:05 2012
From: marco.buttu at gmail.com (Jennie)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 13:19:05 +0200
Subject: How to see the __name__ attribute of a class by using dir()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2557.1350726214.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <k5tm0k$sph$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.2554.1350721484.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508267F8.5030302@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2557.1350726214.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <508288A9.807@gmail.com>

On 10/20/2012 11:43 AM, Peter Otten wrote:

> In Python 3 the way to specify the metaclass has changed:
>
>>>> class FooType(type):
> ...     def __dir__(self): return ["python"]
> ...
>>>> class Foo(metaclass=FooType):
> ...     pass
> ...
>>>> dir(Foo)
> ['python']

Thanks! :)


-- 
Jennie


From nameDOTportua at gmail.com  Sat Oct 20 07:19:05 2012
From: nameDOTportua at gmail.com (Jennie)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 13:19:05 +0200
Subject: How to see the __name__ attribute of a class by using dir()
References: <k5tm0k$sph$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.2554.1350721484.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508267F8.5030302@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2557.1350726214.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <508288A9.807@gmail.com>

On 10/20/2012 11:43 AM, Peter Otten wrote:

> In Python 3 the way to specify the metaclass has changed:
>
>>>> class FooType(type):
> ...     def __dir__(self): return ["python"]
> ...
>>>> class Foo(metaclass=FooType):
> ...     pass
> ...
>>>> dir(Foo)
> ['python']

Thanks! :)


-- 
Jennie


From gvanem at broadpark.no  Sat Oct 20 08:47:51 2012
From: gvanem at broadpark.no (Gisle Vanem)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 14:47:51 +0200
Subject: Python on Windows
References: <1pKdnT9EiNaO2ODNnZ2dnUVZ8rCdnZ2d@bt.com>
	<JY2dnYfmpcsEyRzNnZ2dnUVZ8vadnZ2d@bt.com>
	<50815CED.70902@timgolden.me.uk>
Message-ID: <446CA29206034AD7BEEBF644F28185FB@dev.null>

"Tim Golden" <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:

> In general, you'll want to be using a mechanism such as pip:
> 
>  http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pip
> 
> which will look things up on PyPI so you can just do "pip install
> newmodule". 

And if you have a pip.bat from some Perl installation sitting before 
python's Scripts dir in your %PATH, remember to use 
"pip.exe install newmodule" instead.

My Strawberry Perl has this "Perl Installation Package". Maybe I should
rearrange my %PATH? 

--gv


From saidin21 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 20 09:58:06 2012
From: saidin21 at gmail.com (teamnine)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 06:58:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tips on Caring Adapter (Charger) Laptop
Message-ID: <71f1e7c2-34ca-4023-8c29-d48bd8be2dd1@m4g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

Charger or laptop adapter is often damaged when the use and improper
storage. In fact, the adapter works for supplying power to the
laptop,
and if the conditions are not good can cause damage to your laptop.
Use the correct adapter will help reduce the risk of damage to your
laptop and keep money in your pocket in order not wasted, because of
problems that cause laptop adapter is damaged.
Tips on Caring Adapter:
1. Roll adapter properly, do not wrap the adapter box. Roll a good
example is exemplified in the image below.
2. When using the adapter, make sure the cable is not pinched or
crushed anything. Because it can damage the wires inside.
3. Do not roll up the cable too tight so that the base of the cord
involved curled or bent.
4. Avoid wrapping the cord in the adapter, because of the risk at the
base of the cable membengkoknya, more so if the adapter is carried in
a bag.
5. When installing the adapter into the laptop if it feels hard, you
should stop for a slanted mounting position will damage the jack jack
jack adapter or laptop.
6. Keep the temperature adapter, multiple congenital laptop adapters
often blistered when overheated.
7. If the adapter is often falter when used better soon replace the
adapter. Since the adapter is much cheaper prices than buying a
motherboard or a new battery.
8. Avoid the use of the power outlet voltage up and down, or use a
stabilizer.
9. Perform charging battery before it runs out altogether because
charging an empty battery will require a great power, it is to avoid
heavy work adapter.
Source : http://laptopworld21.blogspot.com/2012/10/tips-on-caring-adapter-charger-laptop.html


From saidin21 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 20 10:15:31 2012
From: saidin21 at gmail.com (teamnine)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 07:15:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to Clean LCD Screen Notebook or Laptop
Message-ID: <10ff9fda-ec10-4330-907b-375ef644d141@g8g2000yqp.googlegroups.com>

There are lots of tips out there how to clean a laptop or notebook LCD
screens properly, well, this time I want to share with you tips, tips
that are easy and simple for you to practice at home, tips on how to
clean the screen LCD monitor or laptop notebook:


Clean the LCD screen with ingredients containing alcohol, ammonia or
other solvents are not recommended by the manufacturer. You must
understand that the LCD is not glass, so that should you use to clean
is with a dry soft cloth.
When you want to clean with a liquid, try using distilled water or a
50/50 mix of white vinegar and distilled water. Never try to use tap
water / taps, water wells, etc., because the water contains minerals
that can damage the LCD screen or be leaving the scars / permanent
disability on the screen.
Do not try to spray water directly on the LCD screen. This can cause
permanent damage to the LCD screen. Should apply first to the fabric,
then wiped / cleaned.
It is recommended to use a microfiber cloth. You can try as pure
cotton T-shirt, lint-free microfiber cloth, disposable cloth
(available at pharmacies) or other similar soft cloth. Lens tissue
that you use to clean the camera You can also be used to clean cloth
to clean the screen LCDatau spectacle lenses can.

Source : http://laptopworld21.blogspot.com/2012/10/How-to-Clean-LCD-Screen-Notebook-or-Laptop.html


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Sat Oct 20 10:18:47 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 14:18:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2543.1350692652.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-20, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> 	Strangely, we've gone from 80-character fixed width displays to
> who-knows-what (if I drop my font size I can probably get nearly 200
> characters across in full-screen mode)...
>
> 	But at the same time we've gone from 132-character line-printers
> using fan-fold 11x17 pages, to office inkjet/laser printers using 8.5x11
> paper, defaulting to portrait orientation -- with a 10 character/inch
> font, and 1/4" left/right margins, we're back to 80 character limitation
><G>

True, but nobody prints source code out on paper do they?

Seriously -- I can't remember the last time I printed souce code...

-- 
Grant




From invalid at invalid.invalid  Sat Oct 20 10:20:52 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 14:20:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Preventing crap email from google?
References: <k5srto$aqr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2550.1350704129.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k5uc04$p6b$2@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-20, Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/19/2012 06:43 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>> Good morning/afternoon/evening all,
>> 
>> Is there any possibility that we could find a way to prevent the double 
>> spaced rubbish that comes from G$ infiltrating this ng/ml?  For example, 
>> does Python have anybody who works for G$ who could pull a few strings, 
>> preferably a Dutch national who has named a quite well known programming 
>> language after a humorous BBC television programme?
>
> I don't know what G$ is, but from your subject, I assume you are
> complaining about posts from gmail users, of which I am one.

Postings from gmail users aren't a problem.  Posts made via the
google-groups web site are a problem, and I plonked them all years and
years ago...

-- 
Grant





From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Sat Oct 20 14:53:25 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 19:53:25 +0100
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2543.1350692652.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qUvEoQRFFOLgdCOiSyT2vR0VUiOkgbcuS-MYBe1o52aEA@mail.gmail.com>

On 20 October 2012 15:18, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 2012-10-20, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >       Strangely, we've gone from 80-character fixed width displays to
> > who-knows-what (if I drop my font size I can probably get nearly 200
> > characters across in full-screen mode)...
> >
> >       But at the same time we've gone from 132-character line-printers
> > using fan-fold 11x17 pages, to office inkjet/laser printers using 8.5x11
> > paper, defaulting to portrait orientation -- with a 10 character/inch
> > font, and 1/4" left/right margins, we're back to 80 character limitation
> ><G>
>
> True, but nobody prints source code out on paper do they?
>
> Seriously -- I can't remember the last time I printed souce code...
>

The A-level computing syllabus requires you to. A friend of mine who took
the course ended up with a 200+ page binder.

Just saying.
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From andrew.robert.moffat at gmail.com  Sat Oct 20 15:33:02 2012
From: andrew.robert.moffat at gmail.com (Andrew Moffat)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 14:33:02 -0500
Subject: Interest in seeing sh.py in the stdlib
Message-ID: <CADijH1Xyu+Nzku8C0pR-Wh+eTPvSZmbEMO49YiZBYN+11Fr9xg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm the author of sh.py, a subprocess module rewrite for Linux and OSX.  It
serves as a powerful and intuitive interface to launching subprocesses
http://amoffat.github.com/sh/.  It has been maintained on github
https://github.com/amoffat/sh for about 10 months and currently has about
25k installs, according to pythonpackages.com.

Andy Grover maintains the Fedora rpm for sh.py
http://arm.koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=94247  and Nick
Moffit has submitted an older version of sh.py (which was called pbs) to be
included in Debian distros
http://pkgs.org/debian-wheezy/debian-main-i386/python-pbs_0.95-1_all.deb.html

I'm interested in making sh.py more accessible to help bring Python forward
in the area of shell scripting, so I'm interested in seeing if sh would be
suitable for the standard library.  Is there any other interest in
something like this?

Thanks
Andrew Moffat
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From drobinow at gmail.com  Sat Oct 20 16:02:06 2012
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 16:02:06 -0400
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <7lt588hmj64n0b91q4heco40esg84056ni@invalid.netcom.com>
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2543.1350692652.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<7lt588hmj64n0b91q4heco40esg84056ni@invalid.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <CAF3XjbzSLT+=yqA=47sZNgsXy3HJKrWe-iss-fxxxZFDWC9ACg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber
<wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 14:18:47 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards
> <invalid at invalid.invalid> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>>
>> True, but nobody prints source code out on paper do they?
>>
>> Seriously -- I can't remember the last time I printed souce code...
>
>         Well, having been unemployed for a year, I can't speak much of
> recent practice...
>
>         But I did tend to run up listings when I had to take over
> maintenance of some programs and needed to become familiar with the
> overall code base...
Same here. I've been unemployed (retired!) 6 years, but I'd
occasionally print code written by someone else, never anything of my
own.


From walterhurry at lavabit.com  Sat Oct 20 16:02:34 2012
From: walterhurry at lavabit.com (Walter Hurry)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 20:02:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2543.1350692652.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <k5v00q$6r4$1@news.albasani.net>

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 14:18:47 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:

> True, but nobody prints source code out on paper do they?
> 
> Seriously -- I can't remember the last time I printed souce code...

I remember my first IT job - COBOL programming in the early 80's. The 
rule was that every time we delivered a new or updated program into 
testing, we had to print a listing onto fanfold paper and hang it, in a 
cardboard binder, onto a set of rails which ran down the center of the 
office.

I recall even then thinking the practice ludicrous.



From charleshixsn at earthlink.net  Sat Oct 20 16:03:32 2012
From: charleshixsn at earthlink.net (Charles Hixson)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 13:03:32 -0700
Subject: 'generator ignored GeneratorExit''
Message-ID: <50830394.6020100@earthlink.net>

If I run the following code in the same module, it works correctly, but 
if I import it I get the message:
Exception RuntimeError: 'generator ignored GeneratorExit' in <generator 
object getNxtFile at 0x7f932f884f50> ignored

def getNxtFile (startDir, exts = ["txt", "utf8"]):
     try:
         for    path    in    getNxtPath (startDir, exts):
             try:
                 fil    =    open (path, encoding = "utf-8-sig")
                 yield    fil
             except:
                 print ("Could not read:  ", path)
     except    GeneratorExit:
         raise    StopIteration

The message appears to be purely informational, but I *would* like to 
fix whatever problem it's reporting, and none of the changes that I've 
tried have worked.  What *should* I be doing?

-- 
Charles Hixson



From walterhurry at lavabit.com  Sat Oct 20 16:14:13 2012
From: walterhurry at lavabit.com (Walter Hurry)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 20:14:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Preventing crap email from google?
References: <mailman.2545.1350693647.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k5v0ml$6r4$2@news.albasani.net>

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 01:43:03 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> Good morning/afternoon/evening all,
> 
> Is there any possibility that we could find a way to prevent the double
> spaced rubbish that comes from G$ infiltrating this ng/ml?  For example,
> does Python have anybody who works for G$ who could pull a few strings,
> preferably a Dutch national who has named a quite well known programming
> language after a humorous BBC television programme?

It is Google bloody Groups which is the problem. I should have plonked 
posts from there ages ago, and am about to remedy that omission.



From roy at panix.com  Sat Oct 20 16:37:23 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 16:37:23 -0400
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <roy-CFF5A4.16372320102012@news.panix.com>

In article <5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d at news.astraweb.com>,
 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:

> Some code might be more conveniently written as a single long line. But I 
> would argue that nearly never is code more easily *read* as a single long 
> line, and since code is read much more than it is written, it is more 
> important to optimise for reading, not writing.

Like many people here, I don't worry much about the 80 column limit.  I 
make my lines of code as long as they have to be, and no longer.  If 
there's some obvious and easy way to fold the statement onto multiple 
lines, I'll do it.  If not, I won't.

This tends to result in lines that are less than 80 characters, but if 
not, I don't worry about it (assuming I'm even aware of it).

I just did a little experiment.  I took about 20 KLOC of python that was 
largely written by me and make a histogram of the line lengths 
(http://www.panix.com/~roy/length.pdf).  Just by eye, I'd say "most are 
less than 80, almost all are less than 100".  I'd guess the average of 
all non-empty lines is about 45 or so.  The longest line is 273 
characters:

             sys.stderr.write("Error: Can't find the file 'settings.py' 
in the directory containing %r.\nYou'll have to run django-profile.py, 
passing it your settings module.\n(If the file settings.py does indeed 
exist, it's causing an ImportError somehow.)\n" % __file__)

Would that have been better rewritten broken up into several shorter 
lines?  Absolutely.  Such is life.

PS: I didn't write that line :-)


From jphalip at gmail.com  Sat Oct 20 16:43:16 2012
From: jphalip at gmail.com (Julien Phalip)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 13:43:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Preserving unicode filename encoding
Message-ID: <c991bee7-92a9-4929-a709-5db7e569b184@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I've noticed that the encoding of non-ascii filenames can be inconsistent between platforms when using the built-in open() function to create files.

For example, on a Ubuntu 10.04.4 LTS box, the character u'?' (u'\u015f') gets encoded as u's?' (u's\u0327'). Note how the two characters look exactly the same but are encoded differently. The original character uses only one code (u'\u015f'), but the resulting character that is saved on the file system will be made of a combination of two codes: the letter 's' followed by a diacritical cedilla (u's\u0327'). (You can learn more about diacritics in [1]). On the Mac, however, the original encoding is always preserved.

This issue was also discussed in a blog post by Ned Batchelder [2]. One suggested approach is to normalize the filename, however this could result in loss of information (what if, for example, the original filename did contain combining diacritics and we wanted to preserve them).

Ideally, it would be preferable to preserve the original encoding. Is that possible or is that completely out of Python's control?

Thanks a lot,

Julien

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combining_diacritic#Unicode_ranges
[2] http://nedbatchelder.com/blog/201106/filenames_with_accents.html


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Oct 20 18:22:52 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 23:22:52 +0100
Subject: 'generator ignored GeneratorExit''
In-Reply-To: <50830394.6020100@earthlink.net>
References: <50830394.6020100@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5083243C.6070006@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-20 21:03, Charles Hixson wrote:
> If I run the following code in the same module, it works correctly, but
> if I import it I get the message:
> Exception RuntimeError: 'generator ignored GeneratorExit' in <generator
> object getNxtFile at 0x7f932f884f50> ignored
>
> def getNxtFile (startDir, exts = ["txt", "utf8"]):
>       try:
>           for    path    in    getNxtPath (startDir, exts):
>               try:
>                   fil    =    open (path, encoding = "utf-8-sig")
>                   yield    fil
>               except:
>                   print ("Could not read:  ", path)
>       except    GeneratorExit:
>           raise    StopIteration
>
> The message appears to be purely informational, but I *would* like to
> fix whatever problem it's reporting, and none of the changes that I've
> tried have worked.  What *should* I be doing?
>
That code has a bare except, which is virtually always a bad idea
because it swallows _all_ exceptions. Maybe, in this case, it's
swallowing an exception that would tell you the cause of the problem.


From contropinion at gmail.com  Sat Oct 20 19:14:19 2012
From: contropinion at gmail.com (contro opinion)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 19:14:19 -0400
Subject: change the first letter into uppercase (ask)
In-Reply-To: <fju588hc3kt5peqt48gcft1eqo8456nkjt@invalid.netcom.com>
References: <CA+YdQ_5DAp88HJiQnW9ejDuQGomW5X_b1dUP_sygJB+7s_9iyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANaSqUfHejaD-esy8o573KfZ1UJsNTbw4ziq0DN4ehEjU0ACJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<fju588hc3kt5peqt48gcft1eqo8456nkjt@invalid.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <CA+YdQ_4sEpBM9FPwhP61pV30Wxun+7V-kOisa0vvVRUWfZ2gBA@mail.gmail.com>

 the pattern `re.compile(".(?#nyh2p){0,1}")`  , make me confused,
can you explain how it  can match the first letter of every word?


2012/10/20 Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com>

> On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 01:03:46 -0400, Zero Piraeus <schesis at gmail.com>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > :
> >
> > On 20 October 2012 00:09, contro opinion <contropinion at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > how can i use  regular expression  in  python  to change the string
> > > "a test of capitalizing"
> > > into
> > > "A Test Of Capitalizing"?
> >
> > >>> import re
> > >>> pattern = re.compile(".(?#nyh2p){0,1}")
> > >>> result = ""
> > >>> f = str.title
>
>         f = str.capitalize
>
> > >>> for match in re.findall(pattern, "a test of capitalizing"):
> > ...   result = f(result + match)
>
>         result = result + f(match)
>
>         Or closer... Don't both with f and str.capitalize
>
>         result = result + match.capitalize()
>
> > ...
> > >>> print(result)
> > A Test Of Capitalizing
> > >>>
> >
>
>
> >>> "a test of capitalizing".title()
> 'A Test Of Capitalizing'
> >>>
>
>         Not to be confused with
>
> >>> "a test of capitalizing".capitalize()
> 'A test of capitalizing'
> >>>
> --
>         Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
>         wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From SeeWebsiteToContactMe at semitwist.com  Sat Oct 20 19:24:16 2012
From: SeeWebsiteToContactMe at semitwist.com (Nick Sabalausky)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 19:24:16 -0400
Subject: SQLAlchemy: How to do Table Reflection and MySQL?
Message-ID: <20121020192416.000023b6@unknown>

Hi, I'm fairly new to Python, and I'm trying to figure out how to use
SQLAlchemy to connect to a MySQL DB and use table reflection to set up
SQLAlchemy's tables. But the  SQLAlchemy documentation is gigantic and
frankly kinda making my head spin, so I'm having trouble even finding
any information on how to use its table reflection, mostly just that it
exists and *can* be done, but not so much "how". My web searching has
just been turning up examples of SQLite and manually describing the
tables in Python and having SQLAlchemy create the tables, which isn't
what I'm looking for.

Is there a simple way to do this somehow? To just connect to a MySQL DB
and use table reflection?


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sat Oct 20 19:28:32 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 17:28:32 -0600
Subject: 'generator ignored GeneratorExit''
In-Reply-To: <50830394.6020100@earthlink.net>
References: <50830394.6020100@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnp8gKDHCwD-ag+b0iX+tigG6kt0D9ZrXS6UyC+txLKVA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Charles Hixson
<charleshixsn at earthlink.net> wrote:
> If I run the following code in the same module, it works correctly, but if I
> import it I get the message:
> Exception RuntimeError: 'generator ignored GeneratorExit' in <generator
> object getNxtFile at 0x7f932f884f50> ignored
>
> def getNxtFile (startDir, exts = ["txt", "utf8"]):
>     try:
>         for    path    in    getNxtPath (startDir, exts):
>             try:
>                 fil    =    open (path, encoding = "utf-8-sig")
>                 yield    fil
>             except:
>                 print ("Could not read:  ", path)
>     except    GeneratorExit:
>         raise    StopIteration
>
> The message appears to be purely informational, but I *would* like to fix
> whatever problem it's reporting, and none of the changes that I've tried
> have worked.  What *should* I be doing?

The bare except is probably catching the GeneratorExit exception and
swallowing it.  Try catching a more specific exception like OSError or
even just Exception instead.

Also, you don't need to explicitly catch GeneratorExit just to raise
StopIteration.  The generator will normally stop on GeneratorExit,
provided the exception is actually able to propagate up.


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sat Oct 20 19:30:29 2012
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 00:30:29 +0100
Subject: Preserving unicode filename encoding
References: <c991bee7-92a9-4929-a709-5db7e569b184@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2012.10.20.23.30.29.465000@nowhere.com>

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 13:43:16 -0700, Julien Phalip wrote:

> I've noticed that the encoding of non-ascii filenames can be inconsistent
> between platforms when using the built-in open() function to create files.
> 
> For example, on a Ubuntu 10.04.4 LTS box, the character u'?' (u'\u015f')
> gets encoded as u's?' (u's\u0327'). Note how the two characters look
> exactly the same but are encoded differently. The original character uses
> only one code (u'\u015f'), but the resulting character that is saved on
> the file system will be made of a combination of two codes: the letter 's'
> followed by a diacritical cedilla (u's\u0327'). (You can learn more about
> diacritics in [1]). On the Mac, however, the original encoding is always
> preserved.
> 
> This issue was also discussed in a blog post by Ned Batchelder [2].

You are conflating two distinct issues here: representation (how a
given "character" is represented as a Unicode string) and encoding (how a
given Unicode string is represented as a byte string).

E.g. you state:

> For example, on a Ubuntu 10.04.4 LTS box, the character u'?' (u'\u015f')
> gets encoded as u's?' (u's\u0327').

which is incorrect.

The latter isn't an "encoding" of the former. They are alternate Unicode
representations of the same character. The former uses a pre-composed
character (LATIN SMALL LETTER S WITH CEDILLA) while the latter uses a
letter 's' with a combining accent (COMBINING CEDILLA).

Unlike the Mac, neither Unix nor Windows will automatically normalise
Unicode strings. A Unix filename is a sequence of bytes, nothing more and
nothing less. This is part of the reason why Unix filenames are case
sensitive: case applies to characters, and the kernel doesn't know which
characters, if any, those bytes are meant to represent.

Python will convert a Unicode string to a sequence of bytes using the
filesystem encoding. If the encoding is UTF-8, then u'\u015f'
will be encoded as b'\xc5\x9f', while u's\u0327' will be encoded as
b's\xcc\xa7'.

If you want to convert a Unicode string to a given normalisation, you can
use unicodedata.normalize(), e.g.:

	> unicodedata.normalize('NFC', 's\u0327')
	'\u015f'
	> unicodedata.normalize('NFD', '\u015f')
	's\u0327'

However: if you want to access an existing file, you must use the filename
as it appears on disc. On Unix and Windows, it's perfectly possible to
have two files named e.g. '\u015f.txt' and 's\u0327.txt' in the same
directory. Which one gets opened depends upon the exact sequence of
Unicode codepoints passed to open().

The situation is different on the Mac, where system libraries
automatically impose a specific representation on filenames, and will
normalise Unicode strings to that representation.



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sat Oct 20 19:39:41 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 17:39:41 -0600
Subject: change the first letter into uppercase (ask)
In-Reply-To: <CA+YdQ_4sEpBM9FPwhP61pV30Wxun+7V-kOisa0vvVRUWfZ2gBA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YdQ_5DAp88HJiQnW9ejDuQGomW5X_b1dUP_sygJB+7s_9iyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANaSqUfHejaD-esy8o573KfZ1UJsNTbw4ziq0DN4ehEjU0ACJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<fju588hc3kt5peqt48gcft1eqo8456nkjt@invalid.netcom.com>
	<CA+YdQ_4sEpBM9FPwhP61pV30Wxun+7V-kOisa0vvVRUWfZ2gBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidm+W6oNc0ZGSCbQw7iPZQyQRkAUeQcZOZXGwNw0Cx0BGw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 5:14 PM, contro opinion <contropinion at gmail.com> wrote:
> the pattern `re.compile(".(?#nyh2p){0,1}")`  , make me confused,
> can you explain how it  can match the first letter of every word?

It doesn't.

>>> pattern = re.compile(".(?#nyh2p){0,1}")
>>> pattern.findall("a test of capitalizing")
['a', ' ', 't', 'e', 's', 't', ' ', 'o', 'f', ' ', 'c', 'a', 'p', 'i',
't', 'a', 'l', 'i', 'z', 'i', 'n', 'g', '']

The regex is just convolution.  The solution actually works by calling
str.title().  The fact that it calls it 23 times instead of once is
further convolution.


From charleshixsn at earthlink.net  Sat Oct 20 19:41:37 2012
From: charleshixsn at earthlink.net (Charles Hixson)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 16:41:37 -0700
Subject: 'generator ignored GeneratorExit''
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnp8gKDHCwD-ag+b0iX+tigG6kt0D9ZrXS6UyC+txLKVA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50830394.6020100@earthlink.net>
	<CALwzidnp8gKDHCwD-ag+b0iX+tigG6kt0D9ZrXS6UyC+txLKVA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508336B1.9090600@earthlink.net>

On 10/20/2012 04:28 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Charles Hixson
> <charleshixsn at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>> If I run the following code in the same module, it works correctly, but if I
>> import it I get the message:
>> Exception RuntimeError: 'generator ignored GeneratorExit' in<generator
>> object getNxtFile at 0x7f932f884f50>  ignored
>>
>> def getNxtFile (startDir, exts = ["txt", "utf8"]):
>>      try:
>>          for    path    in    getNxtPath (startDir, exts):
>>              try:
>>                  fil    =    open (path, encoding = "utf-8-sig")
>>                  yield    fil
>>              except:
>>                  print ("Could not read:  ", path)
>>      except    GeneratorExit:
>>          raise    StopIteration
>>
>> The message appears to be purely informational, but I *would* like to fix
>> whatever problem it's reporting, and none of the changes that I've tried
>> have worked.  What *should* I be doing?
> The bare except is probably catching the GeneratorExit exception and
> swallowing it.  Try catching a more specific exception like OSError or
> even just Exception instead.
>
> Also, you don't need to explicitly catch GeneratorExit just to raise
> StopIteration.  The generator will normally stop on GeneratorExit,
> provided the exception is actually able to propagate up.
Thank you.  That was, indeed the problem.  Removing all the try ... 
excepts made it work on my test case.  Now I've got to figure out what 
to catch in case it's not a utf8 file.  I guess that I'll hope that 
IOError will work, as nothing else sounds reasonable.  It's general 
enough that it ought to work.


-- 
Charles Hixson



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Oct 20 19:43:42 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 00:43:42 +0100
Subject: change the first letter into uppercase (ask)
In-Reply-To: <CA+YdQ_4sEpBM9FPwhP61pV30Wxun+7V-kOisa0vvVRUWfZ2gBA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+YdQ_5DAp88HJiQnW9ejDuQGomW5X_b1dUP_sygJB+7s_9iyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANaSqUfHejaD-esy8o573KfZ1UJsNTbw4ziq0DN4ehEjU0ACJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<fju588hc3kt5peqt48gcft1eqo8456nkjt@invalid.netcom.com>
	<CA+YdQ_4sEpBM9FPwhP61pV30Wxun+7V-kOisa0vvVRUWfZ2gBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5083372E.3040209@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-21 00:14, contro opinion wrote:
> the pattern `re.compile(".(?#nyh2p){0,1}")`  , make me confused,
> can you explain how it  can match the first letter of every word?
>
It matches all of the characters, plus an empty string at the end. It's
equivalent to:

     result = ""

     for c in "a test of capitalizing":
         result = (result + c).title()

     result = (result + "").title()

or:

     result = "a test of capitalizing".title()

but somewhat slower...

>
> 2012/10/20 Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com
> <mailto:wlfraed at ix.netcom.com>>
>
>     On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 01:03:46 -0400, Zero Piraeus <schesis at gmail.com
>     <mailto:schesis at gmail.com>>
>     declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>      > :
>      >
>      > On 20 October 2012 00:09, contro opinion <contropinion at gmail.com
>     <mailto:contropinion at gmail.com>> wrote:
>      > > how can i use  regular expression  in  python  to change the string
>      > > "a test of capitalizing"
>      > > into
>      > > "A Test Of Capitalizing"?
>      >
>      > >>> import re
>      > >>> pattern = re.compile(".(?#nyh2p){0,1}")
>      > >>> result = ""
>      > >>> f = str.title
>
>              f = str.capitalize
>
>      > >>> for match in re.findall(pattern, "a test of capitalizing"):
>      > ...   result = f(result + match)
>
>              result = result + f(match)
>
>              Or closer... Don't both with f and str.capitalize
>
>              result = result + match.capitalize()
>
>      > ...
>      > >>> print(result)
>      > A Test Of Capitalizing
>      > >>>
>      >
>
>
>      >>> "a test of capitalizing".title()
>     'A Test Of Capitalizing'
>      >>>
>
>              Not to be confused with
>
>      >>> "a test of capitalizing".capitalize()
>     'A test of capitalizing'
>      >>>
>



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sat Oct 20 19:44:04 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 17:44:04 -0600
Subject: change the first letter into uppercase (ask)
In-Reply-To: <fju588hc3kt5peqt48gcft1eqo8456nkjt@invalid.netcom.com>
References: <CA+YdQ_5DAp88HJiQnW9ejDuQGomW5X_b1dUP_sygJB+7s_9iyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANaSqUfHejaD-esy8o573KfZ1UJsNTbw4ziq0DN4ehEjU0ACJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<fju588hc3kt5peqt48gcft1eqo8456nkjt@invalid.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidk2MXH7ZGLkF=NK0vGgfwMNJhnusqWiWTYiYmqsNBz7QA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber
<wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> >>> for match in re.findall(pattern, "a test of capitalizing"):
>> ...   result = f(result + match)
>
>         result = result + f(match)
>
>         Or closer... Don't both with f and str.capitalize
>
>         result = result + match.capitalize()

These result in a string that is all-caps, not title-case.


From cs at zip.com.au  Sat Oct 20 20:11:52 2012
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 11:11:52 +1100
Subject: 'generator ignored GeneratorExit''
In-Reply-To: <508336B1.9090600@earthlink.net>
References: <508336B1.9090600@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20121021001151.GA8846@cskk.homeip.net>

On 20Oct2012 16:41, Charles Hixson <charleshixsn at earthlink.net> wrote:
| On 10/20/2012 04:28 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
| > On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Charles Hixson
| >>              try:
| >>                  fil    =    open (path, encoding = "utf-8-sig")
| >>                  yield    fil
| >>              except:
[...]
| > The bare except is probably catching the GeneratorExit exception and
| > swallowing it.  Try catching a more specific exception like OSError or
| > even just Exception instead. [...]
|
| Thank you.  That was, indeed the problem.  Removing all the try ... 
| excepts made it work on my test case.  Now I've got to figure out what 
| to catch in case it's not a utf8 file.  I guess that I'll hope that 
| IOError will work, as nothing else sounds reasonable.  It's general 
| enough that it ought to work.

No no no!

Feed it a bad file and _watch_ what exception it throws.

IIRC, it should throw a very specific UnicodeDecodingError; catch that
and only that.

Always try to catch the most specific exception possible or you're back in
the same zone your bare except was in - catching things other than the
specific problem you're handling.

"General enough that it ought to work" is the wrong approach; "Exception"
is general enough, and clearly the wrong approach. Catch exactly what
you have to catch. Catching the wrong thing (another exception type) and
_mishandling_ it (because you're treating it like a decoding error) is
not "working", it is "not working".

If you don't know the exception, let it bubble up and escape - Python
will report it (and abort, of course).

Cheers,
-- 

Performing random acts of moral ambiguity.
        - Jeff Miller <jxmill2 at gonix.com>


From hansmu at xs4all.nl  Sat Oct 20 20:21:00 2012
From: hansmu at xs4all.nl (Hans Mulder)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 02:21:00 +0200
Subject: 'generator ignored GeneratorExit''
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2575.1350776996.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <50830394.6020100@earthlink.net>
	<CALwzidnp8gKDHCwD-ag+b0iX+tigG6kt0D9ZrXS6UyC+txLKVA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2575.1350776996.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <50833fed$0$6969$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 21/10/12 01:41:37, Charles Hixson wrote:
> On 10/20/2012 04:28 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
>> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Charles Hixson
>> <charleshixsn at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>> If I run the following code in the same module, it works correctly,
>>> but if I
>>> import it I get the message:
>>> Exception RuntimeError: 'generator ignored GeneratorExit' in<generator
>>> object getNxtFile at 0x7f932f884f50>  ignored
>>>
>>> def getNxtFile (startDir, exts = ["txt", "utf8"]):
>>>      try:
>>>          for    path    in    getNxtPath (startDir, exts):
>>>              try:
>>>                  fil    =    open (path, encoding = "utf-8-sig")
>>>                  yield    fil
>>>              except:
>>>                  print ("Could not read:  ", path)
>>>      except    GeneratorExit:
>>>          raise    StopIteration
>>>
>>> The message appears to be purely informational, but I *would* like to
>>> fix
>>> whatever problem it's reporting, and none of the changes that I've tried
>>> have worked.  What *should* I be doing?
>> The bare except is probably catching the GeneratorExit exception and
>> swallowing it.  Try catching a more specific exception like OSError or
>> even just Exception instead.
>>
>> Also, you don't need to explicitly catch GeneratorExit just to raise
>> StopIteration.  The generator will normally stop on GeneratorExit,
>> provided the exception is actually able to propagate up.
> Thank you.  That was, indeed the problem.  Removing all the try ...
> excepts made it work on my test case.  Now I've got to figure out what
> to catch in case it's not a utf8 file.  I guess that I'll hope that
> IOError will work, as nothing else sounds reasonable.  It's general
> enough that it ought to work.

I would expect a UnicideError, which is a subclass of ValueError,
but not of IOError.  And I'd expect it to be raised when you start
reading the file, not when you open it.

The easiest way to find out this sort of thing, is to not have any
"except" clauses in your code.  That way, the interpreter will tell
you exactly what was raised, and where.  Much easier than guessing.

>>> import sys
>>> fil = open(sys.executable, encoding="utf8")
>>> fil.readline()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File
"/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.3/lib/python3.3/codecs.py",
line 300, in decode
    (result, consumed) = self._buffer_decode(data, self.errors, final)
UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xca in position 0:
invalid continuation byte

As I expected, opening a non-utf8 file succeeds, but readline() fails.

Hope this helps,

-- HansM




From timr at probo.com  Sat Oct 20 22:33:01 2012
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 19:33:01 -0700
Subject: pls help me with this prog
References: <mailman.2495.1350636042.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <o8n688t7q03059mbebt5434h7ki77pnovv@4ax.com>

inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>but i want to calculate it for every 3 points not the whole data, but
>instead of giving me centre for every 3 data the prog is printing the
>centre 3 times...
>
>def main (data):
>    j = 0
>    for  i in data[:3]:
>        while j != 3:
>         centre = CalcCentre(data)
>         j += 1
>         print centre

This loop doesn't do what you think it does.  Think about the problem you
have to solve.  You have a set of data.  You want to operate on the whole
set, 3 points at a time.  What this loop does is grab the first three
points (only), then calculates the center on the entire list three times.

You want something like:

    # As long as there is data in the list:
    while data:
        # Split the list into two parts: first 3 and the rest.
        first3, data = data[3:],data[3:]
        # Operate on the first three.
        print CalcCenter( first3 )

To make it a little more resilient, you might make sure that len(data) is a
multiple of 3, or at least stop when it is shorter than 3.

To be more clever, you can write a function that returns 3 at a time:

def N_at_a_time( iter, n ):
    while len(iter) >= n:
        yield iter[:n]
        iter = iter[n:]

Now you can do this:

def main(data):
    for first3 in N_at_a_time(data, 3):
        print CalcCenter(first3)
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Sat Oct 20 22:46:20 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 03:46:20 +0100
Subject: overriding equals operation
In-Reply-To: <k5lpd7$iij$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.2273.1350395930.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<30e44a90-34b1-4ed3-97db-9fd76ec61f69@googlegroups.com>
	<k5lpd7$iij$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qWfeA410atEuyDmxCp+rBj0AFbd44D_Tv=tp6TUTgWNUw@mail.gmail.com>

On 17 October 2012 09:14, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On 17/10/2012 05:16, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
>
>> What you really want is b=a.copy()
>> not b=a to disentangle two objects.
>>
>> __eq__ is used in the comparison operation.
>>
>>
> The winner Smartest Answer by a Bot Award 2012 :)


Something seems fishy here...
I swear, either bots are becoming sentient or 88888 isn't always a bot. He
easily passed the Turing test right there.
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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Oct 21 04:07:26 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Oct 2012 08:07:26 GMT
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2543.1350692652.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <5083ad3e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 14:18:47 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2012-10-20, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> 
>> 	Strangely, we've gone from 80-character fixed width displays to
>> who-knows-what (if I drop my font size I can probably get nearly 200
>> characters across in full-screen mode)...
>>
>> 	But at the same time we've gone from 132-character line-printers
>> using fan-fold 11x17 pages, to office inkjet/laser printers using
>> 8.5x11 paper, defaulting to portrait orientation -- with a 10
>> character/inch font, and 1/4" left/right margins, we're back to 80
>> character limitation
>><G>
> 
> True, but nobody prints source code out on paper do they?

I do.

There's nothing better than spreading out a dozen sheets of source code 
over a table to get a good, high-level overview of what does what in 
preparation to refactoring it.


> Seriously -- I can't remember the last time I printed souce code...

I've never printed souce code either *wink*



-- 
Steven


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Sun Oct 21 04:09:44 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 01:09:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pls help me with this prog
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2495.1350636042.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2495.1350636042.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <700c410d-327e-4325-892f-4841825946d8@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, October 19, 2012 4:40:42 PM UTC+8, inshu chauhan wrote:
> in this prog I have written a code to calculate teh centre of a given 3D data..
> 
> 
> 
> but i want to calculate it for every 3 points not the whole data, but
> 
> instead of giving me centre for every 3 data the prog is printing the
> 
> centre 3 times...
> 
> 
> 
> import cv
> 
> from math import floor, sqrt, ceil
> 
> from numpy import array, dot, subtract, add, linalg as lin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> def CalcCentre(data):
> 
>     centre = array([0,0,0])
> 
>     count = 0
> 
>     n = 0
> 
>     for p in data[n:n+3]:
> 
>         centre = add(centre, array(p[:3]))
> 
>         count += 1
> 
>         centre = dot(1./count, centre)
> 
>         return centre
> 
>     n += 1
> 
> def ReadPointCloud(filename):
> 
>     f = open(filename)
> 
>     result = []
> 
>     for l in f:
> 
>         sp = l.split()
> 
>         t = tuple(map(float, sp[1:4]))
> 
>         result.append(t)
> 
>     return result
> 
> 
> 
> def main (data):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     j = 0
> 
>     for  i in data[:3]:
> 
>         while j != 3:
> 
>          centre = CalcCentre(data)
> 
>          j += 1
> 
>          print centre
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
> 
>     data = ReadPointCloud(r'Z:\data\NEHreflectance_Scanner 1_part.txt')
> 
> 
> 
> main(data)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLS HELP ;;;;

# assume data is a list of 3 n numbers, n!=0

n3=data.length()
n=n/3
x=sum(data[0:n3:3])/n
y=sum(data[1:n3:3])/n
z=sum(data[2:n3:3])/n #(x,y,z)





From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Sun Oct 21 04:09:44 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 01:09:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pls help me with this prog
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2495.1350636042.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2495.1350636042.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <700c410d-327e-4325-892f-4841825946d8@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, October 19, 2012 4:40:42 PM UTC+8, inshu chauhan wrote:
> in this prog I have written a code to calculate teh centre of a given 3D data..
> 
> 
> 
> but i want to calculate it for every 3 points not the whole data, but
> 
> instead of giving me centre for every 3 data the prog is printing the
> 
> centre 3 times...
> 
> 
> 
> import cv
> 
> from math import floor, sqrt, ceil
> 
> from numpy import array, dot, subtract, add, linalg as lin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> def CalcCentre(data):
> 
>     centre = array([0,0,0])
> 
>     count = 0
> 
>     n = 0
> 
>     for p in data[n:n+3]:
> 
>         centre = add(centre, array(p[:3]))
> 
>         count += 1
> 
>         centre = dot(1./count, centre)
> 
>         return centre
> 
>     n += 1
> 
> def ReadPointCloud(filename):
> 
>     f = open(filename)
> 
>     result = []
> 
>     for l in f:
> 
>         sp = l.split()
> 
>         t = tuple(map(float, sp[1:4]))
> 
>         result.append(t)
> 
>     return result
> 
> 
> 
> def main (data):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     j = 0
> 
>     for  i in data[:3]:
> 
>         while j != 3:
> 
>          centre = CalcCentre(data)
> 
>          j += 1
> 
>          print centre
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
> 
>     data = ReadPointCloud(r'Z:\data\NEHreflectance_Scanner 1_part.txt')
> 
> 
> 
> main(data)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLS HELP ;;;;

# assume data is a list of 3 n numbers, n!=0

n3=data.length()
n=n/3
x=sum(data[0:n3:3])/n
y=sum(data[1:n3:3])/n
z=sum(data[2:n3:3])/n #(x,y,z)





From schesis at gmail.com  Sun Oct 21 04:22:08 2012
From: schesis at gmail.com (Zero Piraeus)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 04:22:08 -0400
Subject: change the first letter into uppercase (ask)
In-Reply-To: <5ce688l1ql12bf06bde9b2kk2qi4rpq4tm@invalid.netcom.com>
References: <CA+YdQ_5DAp88HJiQnW9ejDuQGomW5X_b1dUP_sygJB+7s_9iyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANaSqUfHejaD-esy8o573KfZ1UJsNTbw4ziq0DN4ehEjU0ACJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<fju588hc3kt5peqt48gcft1eqo8456nkjt@invalid.netcom.com>
	<CA+YdQ_4sEpBM9FPwhP61pV30Wxun+7V-kOisa0vvVRUWfZ2gBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5ce688l1ql12bf06bde9b2kk2qi4rpq4tm@invalid.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <CANaSqUd_aqMTR0tG=+CjyeJAb2kWE9Q4GXb=7E3VZv1t_OMOeg@mail.gmail.com>

:

On 20 October 2012 20:22, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>         Based on the documentation, most of that pattern is fluff: (?#...)
> is considered a comment.

The comment isn't entirely fluff ... it provides a Google target for
whoever's marking OP's assignment, should they choose to look it up:

https://www.google.com/search?q=nyh2p

 -[]z.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Oct 21 05:20:41 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 20:20:41 +1100
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <5083ad3e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2543.1350692652.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<5083ad3e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoEiNd2M4_9WB1gGRiYTGjWPPU6enS+=1KOnsc9A6eVHg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 7:07 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 14:18:47 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> True, but nobody prints source code out on paper do they?
>
> I do.
>
> There's nothing better than spreading out a dozen sheets of source code
> over a table to get a good, high-level overview of what does what in
> preparation to refactoring it.
>
>> Seriously -- I can't remember the last time I printed souce code...
>
> I've never printed souce code either *wink*

So what you actually mean is that there's nothing _like_ spreading out
&c &c. I should think that throwing cold water over the code would be
better.

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Oct 21 06:00:59 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Oct 2012 10:00:59 GMT
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2543.1350692652.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<5083ad3e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2582.1350811250.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5083c7da$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 20:20:41 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 7:07 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 14:18:47 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
>>> True, but nobody prints source code out on paper do they?
>>
>> I do.
>>
>> There's nothing better than spreading out a dozen sheets of source code
>> over a table to get a good, high-level overview of what does what in
>> preparation to refactoring it.
>>
>>> Seriously -- I can't remember the last time I printed souce code...
>>
>> I've never printed souce code either *wink*
> 
> So what you actually mean is that there's nothing _like_ spreading out
> &c &c. I should think that throwing cold water over the code would be
> better.

Er, no. Note spelling of "source code" vs "souce code". Hence the grin.

I seriously do print out source code. When I'm having trouble seeing how 
the parts of a module fit together, reading print-outs is a good way 
around the problem. Class browsers don't show you duplicate code, and 
besides, only works with classes. Reading code on screen is limited in 
how much you can see at a time. Both of these things play a part in 
refactoring, and so does printing out the source and having a human being 
(i.e. me) look at it.


-- 
Steven


From insideshoes at gmail.com  Sun Oct 21 06:09:36 2012
From: insideshoes at gmail.com (inshu chauhan)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 12:09:36 +0200
Subject: a prob.. error in prog ..dont knw how to correct
Message-ID: <CAFqGZRFHjk3h5ceayEhNboXU3i+wULz01GpJjHv29RXRQ=eM4w@mail.gmail.com>

I am new to python and have a little problem to solve .. i have an
array with x, y, z co-ordinates in it as a tuple. I am trying to find
the distance between each point and sorting the points according to
the min distance.. i have tried a prog but m stuck bcoz of this error
which I am unable to correct



import cv
from math import floor, sqrt, ceil
from numpy import array, dot, subtract, add, linalg as lin

def calcdist(data):
    for p in data:
        x = p[0]
        y = p[1]
        z = p[2]
    for i in range(len(data)):
      dist = sqrt((x[i]-x[i+1])**2 + (y[i]-y[i+1])**2 +(z[i]-z[i+1]**2))
      return dist


def ReadPointCloud(filename):
    return [tuple(map(float, l.split()[1:4])) for l in open(filename)]

def main (data):

    for i in range(len(data)): # Finding Neighbours
       for j in range(len(data)):
          dist = calcdist(data)
          print dist


if __name__ == '__main__':
    data = ReadPointCloud(r'C:\Thesis\NEHreflectance_Scanner_1_part.txt')
    data = data[0:100]
    main(data)






the error m getting is...




Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Users\inshu\Desktop\cal-dist.py", line 29, in <module>
    main(data)
  File "C:\Users\inshu\Desktop\cal-dist.py", line 22, in main
    dist = calcdist(data)
  File "C:\Users\inshu\Desktop\cal-dist.py", line 11, in calcdist
    dist = sqrt((x[i]-x[i+1])**2 + (y[i]-y[i+1])**2 +(z[i]-z[i+1]**2))
TypeError: 'float' object has no attribute '__getitem__'


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Oct 21 07:03:52 2012
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 06:03:52 -0500
Subject: printing (was: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness)
In-Reply-To: <5083c7da$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2543.1350692652.27098.python-list@python.org>	<k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>	<5083ad3e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2582.1350811250.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5083c7da$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <5083D698.7050003@tim.thechases.com>

On 10/21/12 05:00, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> I seriously do print out source code. When I'm having trouble
> seeing how the parts of a module fit together, reading print-outs
> is a good way around the problem.

I don't print my personal code--both in light of the fact that I
know it much more intimately and I longer own a printer.  But when
trying to wrap my head around other people's code at work, printing
helps to get both the big picture and the details at the same time,
as well as allows me to annotate it with multi-colored
pens/highlighters.

Maybe I'll reconsider when I have a 300+ dpi desktop surface that is
as large as my desk+walls (where those printouts end up).

-tkc





From gheskett at wdtv.com  Sun Oct 21 07:08:43 2012
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 07:08:43 -0400
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <5083ad3e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<5083ad3e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <201210210708.43819.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Sunday 21 October 2012 07:02:26 Steven D'Aprano did opine:

> On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 14:18:47 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> > On 2012-10-20, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >> 	Strangely, we've gone from 80-character fixed width displays to
> >> 
> >> who-knows-what (if I drop my font size I can probably get nearly 200
> >> characters across in full-screen mode)...
> >> 
> >> 	But at the same time we've gone from 132-character line-printers
> >> 
> >> using fan-fold 11x17 pages, to office inkjet/laser printers using
> >> 8.5x11 paper, defaulting to portrait orientation -- with a 10
> >> character/inch font, and 1/4" left/right margins, we're back to 80
> >> character limitation
> >>
> >><G>
> >>
> > True, but nobody prints source code out on paper do they?
> 
> I do.
> 
> There's nothing better than spreading out a dozen sheets of source code
> over a table to get a good, high-level overview of what does what in
> preparation to refactoring it.
> 
> > Seriously -- I can't remember the last time I printed souce code...
> 
> I've never printed souce code either *wink*

So do I, but I often am looking at assembler listings with the assembler 
set for 132 chars a line to preserve the src codes comments, so lp gets a 
use 17 cpi option on the cli that makes the listing.  I probably recycle 2 
reams of paper a year doing exactly that.  Those who won't take advantage 
of that are doomed to publish buggy code.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene> is up!
Not all men who drink are poets.  Some of us drink because we aren't poets.


From schesis at gmail.com  Sun Oct 21 07:23:56 2012
From: schesis at gmail.com (Zero Piraeus)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 07:23:56 -0400
Subject: a prob.. error in prog ..dont knw how to correct
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRFHjk3h5ceayEhNboXU3i+wULz01GpJjHv29RXRQ=eM4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRFHjk3h5ceayEhNboXU3i+wULz01GpJjHv29RXRQ=eM4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANaSqUcYDuMptj_uEy-J+RWLAnhD_kD5TJVWjchkRWUioMfCDQ@mail.gmail.com>

:

On 21 October 2012 06:09, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am new to python and have a little problem to solve ..

> import cv

This module is not used in your code [and isn't part of the standard library].

> from math import floor, sqrt, ceil

You're only using one of these functions.

> from numpy import array, dot, subtract, add, linalg as lin

You're not using any of this.

>     for p in data:
>         x = p[0]
>         y = p[1]
>         z = p[2]

You're repeatedly making assignments in this loop, but because your
subsequent loop is not nested inside it, only the last iteration of x,
y, z will have anything done with them.

>     for i in range(len(data)):

Whenever you find yourself writing

  for i in range(len(seq)):

you're doing something wrong. Instead use something like

  for a, b, c in seq:

or, if you really need the index,

  for i, (a, b, c) in enumerate(seq):

>       dist = sqrt((x[i]-x[i+1])**2 + (y[i]-y[i+1])**2 +(z[i]-z[i+1]**2))

As previously noted, you're going to be repeatedly working with the
last values of x, y and z from the previous loop here. In addition,
since x, y and z are, according to your traceback, floats, trying to
access their members as though they are sequences isn't going to work.

>       return dist

This return statement is inside a loop, and will terminate the
function the first time it's called. That might not be what you want.

> def ReadPointCloud(filename):
>     return [tuple(map(float, l.split()[1:4])) for l in open(filename)]

Assuming your file is along these lines:

  p1 1.23 4.56 7.89
  p2 9.87 6.54 3.21

... ReadPointCloud() ought to work. However, it's not very readable -
map() is sometimes useful, but usually a list comprehension is
clearer. This is better:

def ReadPointCloud(filename):
    """Return a list of 3-tuples from ``filename``."""
    # not tested:
    points = []
    with open(filename) as f:
        for line in f:
            point = tuple(float(x) for x in l.split()[1:4])
            points.append(point)
    return points

> def main (data):
>
>     for i in range(len(data)): # Finding Neighbours
>        for j in range(len(data)):
>           dist = calcdist(data)
>           print dist

This will call calcdist() on everything in data, N**2 times [where N
is the number of points you're working with]. That's probably not what
you want.

> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     data = ReadPointCloud(r'C:\Thesis\NEHreflectance_Scanner_1_part.txt')

Except for throwaway programs, it's not a good idea to hard-code
filenames like this. Better:

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys
    data = ReadPointCloud(sys.argv[1])

In summary: copy-pasting code you don't understand and mashing it
together randomly is not generally considered an effective development
technique.

 -[]z.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Oct 21 07:24:32 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 12:24:32 +0100
Subject: Python 3.3 can't sort memoryviews as they're unorderable
Message-ID: <k60lsp$jok$1@ger.gmane.org>

http://docs.python.org/dev/whatsnew/3.3.html states "memoryview 
comparisons now use the logical structure of the operands and compare 
all array elements by value".  So I'd have thought that you should be 
able to compare them and hence sort them, but this is the state of play.

Python 3.3.0 (v3.3.0:bd8afb90ebf2, Sep 29 2012, 10:55:48) [MSC v.1600 32 
bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> memoryview(bytearray(range(5))) == memoryview(bytearray(range(5)))
True
 >>> memoryview(bytearray(range(5))) != memoryview(bytearray(range(5)))
False
 >>> memoryview(bytearray(range(5))) < memoryview(bytearray(range(5)))
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: unorderable types: memoryview() < memoryview()

Okay then, let's subclass memoryview to provide the functionality.

 >>> class Test(memoryview):
...     pass
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: type 'memoryview' is not an acceptable base type

Oh dear. 
http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/stdtypes.html#typememoryview only 
gives examples of equality comparisons and there was nothing that I 
could see in PEP3118 to explain the rationale behind the lack of other 
comparisons.  What have I missed?

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Oct 21 07:43:07 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 22:43:07 +1100
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <5083c7da$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2543.1350692652.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<5083ad3e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2582.1350811250.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5083c7da$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmromZ1S_Bz=3yfWZEp74cZ-o=n8z4Y7RF0OcZ78WS3o6Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 9:00 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> Er, no. Note spelling of "source code" vs "souce code". Hence the grin.

Ahh. I totally didn't see that, I'm way too used to reading past
typos. Sure. Printing out *source* code, that's altogether different.

Me, though, I don't print anything. Paper and I are not exactly on
speaking terms; the last time we met, he cut me, and that's one of the
rudest things you can do to someone.

ChrisA


From jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi  Sun Oct 21 07:55:31 2012
From: jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: 21 Oct 2012 14:55:31 +0300
Subject: a prob.. error in prog ..dont knw how to correct
References: <mailman.2583.1350814179.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qotmwzgca4s.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>

inshu chauhan writes:

> I am new to python and have a little problem to solve .. i have an
> array with x, y, z co-ordinates in it as a tuple. I am trying to find
> the distance between each point and sorting the points according to
> the min distance.. i have tried a prog but m stuck bcoz of this error
> which I am unable to correct

You don't need help with your program. You need to learn debugging.
Your program is excellent material for that.

The first main step is to learn how to launch an interactive Python
session. Type in some expressions and learn how the interpreter
responds. The second main step is to learn how to send/import your
program to such an interactive Python session. Then you can call your
own functions on your own data and the interpreter's responses will
give you information about your own program.

> import cv
> from math import floor, sqrt, ceil
> from numpy import array, dot, subtract, add, linalg as lin

Unused? Remove for the duration of the debugging exercise.

> def calcdist(data):
>     for p in data:
>         x = p[0]
>         y = p[1]
>         z = p[2]
>     for i in range(len(data)):
>       dist = sqrt((x[i]-x[i+1])**2 + (y[i]-y[i+1])**2 +(z[i]-z[i+1]**2))
>       return dist

This is the one you need to call in your debugging session. When you
get that far, consider also adding temporary print statements to show
what the function is doing.

> def ReadPointCloud(filename):
>     return [tuple(map(float, l.split()[1:4])) for l in open(filename)]
>
> def main (data):
> 
>     for i in range(len(data)): # Finding Neighbours
>        for j in range(len(data)):
>           dist = calcdist(data)
>           print dist
 
Well done separating the main routine as a function - you can also
call this in the interpreter.

> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     data = ReadPointCloud(r'C:\Thesis\NEHreflectance_Scanner_1_part.txt')
>     data = data[0:100]
>     main(data)

Consider using a very small constant data set in the script while you
are debugging - one, two, three points. (When you get the program
working, make the file name a command line parameter, but that can
wait.)

> the error m getting is...
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Users\inshu\Desktop\cal-dist.py", line 29, in <module>
>     main(data)
>   File "C:\Users\inshu\Desktop\cal-dist.py", line 22, in main
>     dist = calcdist(data)
>   File "C:\Users\inshu\Desktop\cal-dist.py", line 11, in calcdist
>     dist = sqrt((x[i]-x[i+1])**2 + (y[i]-y[i+1])**2 +(z[i]-z[i+1]**2))
> TypeError: 'float' object has no attribute '__getitem__'

Python version would be useful information, along with the information
on how you launch your program. (I don't know Microsoft environments,
but other people here do.)

Consider renaming your program as caldist.py, without the hyphen. I
think Python will complain about invalid syntax if you try to import a
module named cal-dist.

I get a different message when I try to index a float, saying
"unsubscriptable" or "not subcscriptable". Regardless, it seems that
your program is asking for x[i] where x is a number, and Python cannot
make sense of that.

(A 'float' is a type of number that lives in a computer and behaves
just a little bit like the real numbers of mathematics.)


From jason at powerpull.net  Sun Oct 21 09:41:52 2012
From: jason at powerpull.net (Jason Friedman)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 07:41:52 -0600
Subject: Interest in seeing sh.py in the stdlib
In-Reply-To: <CADijH1Xyu+Nzku8C0pR-Wh+eTPvSZmbEMO49YiZBYN+11Fr9xg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADijH1Xyu+Nzku8C0pR-Wh+eTPvSZmbEMO49YiZBYN+11Fr9xg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANy1k1g6h4XAjSUKmOFDsy2Zc+sDMdjc2cynn6=MjkwZnnPsUg@mail.gmail.com>

> I'm interested in making sh.py more accessible to help bring Python forward
> in the area of shell scripting, so I'm interested in seeing if sh would be
> suitable for the standard library.  Is there any other interest in something
> like this?

Pretty slick.  My only concern is portability, are there other
examples of modules (excepting Win32) that work on some platforms and
not others?


From djc at news.invalid  Sun Oct 21 10:06:59 2012
From: djc at news.invalid (DJC)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 15:06:59 +0100
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2543.1350692652.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <k60vi8$4sn$1@dont-email.me>

On 20/10/12 15:18, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2012-10-20, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>> 	Strangely, we've gone from 80-character fixed width displays to
>> who-knows-what (if I drop my font size I can probably get nearly 200
>> characters across in full-screen mode)...
>>
>> 	But at the same time we've gone from 132-character line-printers
>> using fan-fold 11x17 pages, to office inkjet/laser printers using 8.5x11
>> paper, defaulting to portrait orientation -- with a 10 character/inch
>> font, and 1/4" left/right margins, we're back to 80 character limitation
>> <G>
>
> True, but nobody prints source code out on paper do they?

I print source code. Usually when the development has got to a stage 
that the program works but needs a lot of tidying up. It's a lot more 
comfortable than scrolling up and down screen to look through pages from 
the comfort of an armchair. Also I can take the listing to a Caf? and 
write notes all over it. Sometimes removing the temptation to 
immediately hit the keyboard is a good thing.



From pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com  Sun Oct 21 10:14:59 2012
From: pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com (Pradipto Banerjee)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 09:14:59 -0500
Subject: Python does not take up available physical memory
In-Reply-To: <5081d04b$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
	<k5s743$6jl$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2523.1350673875.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d04b$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E064010@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>

I tried this on a different PC with 12 GB RAM. As expected, this time, reading the data was no issue. I noticed that for large files, Python takes up 2.5x size in memory compared to size on disk, for the case when each line in the file is retained as a string within a Python list. As an anecdote, for MATLAB, the similar overhead is 2x, slightly lower than Python, and each line in the file was retained as string within a MATLAB cell. I'm curious, has any one compared the overhead of data in memory for other languages like for instance Ruby?


-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+pradipto.banerjee=adainvestments.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Steven D'Aprano
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 6:12 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Python does not take up available physical memory

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 14:03:37 -0500, Pradipto Banerjee wrote:

> Thanks, I tried that. Still got MemoryError, but at least this time
> python tried to use the physical memory. What I noticed is that before
> it gave me the error it used up to 1.5GB (of the 2.23 GB originally
> showed as available) - so in general, python takes up more memory than
> the size of the file itself.

Well of course it does. Once you read the data into memory, it has its
own overhead for the object structure.

You haven't told us what the file is or how you are reading it. I'm going
to assume it is ASCII text and you are using Python 2.

py> open("test file", "w").write("abcde")
py> os.stat("test file").st_size
5L
py> text = open("test file", "r").read()
py> len(text)
5
py> sys.getsizeof(text)
26

So that confirms that a five byte ASCII string takes up five bytes on
disk but 26 bytes in memory as an object.

That overhead will depend on what sort of object, whether Unicode or not,
the version of Python, and how you read the data.

In general, if you have a huge amount of data to work with, you should
try to work with it one line at a time:

for line in open("some file"):
    process(line)


rather than reading the whole file into memory at once:

lines = open("some file").readlines()
for line in lines:
    process(line)



--
Steven
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

 This communication is for informational purposes only. It is not intended to be, nor should it be construed or used as, financial, legal, tax or investment advice or an offer to sell, or a solicitation of any offer to buy, an interest in any fund advised by Ada Investment Management LP, the Investment advisor.  Any offer or solicitation of an investment in any of the Funds may be made only by delivery of such Funds confidential offering materials to authorized prospective investors.  An investment in any of the Funds is not suitable for all investors.  No representation is made that the Funds will or are likely to achieve their objectives, or that any investor will or is likely to achieve results comparable to those shown, or will make any profit at all or will be able to avoid incurring substantial losses.  Performance results are net of applicable fees, are unaudited and reflect reinvestment of income and profits.  Past performance is no guarantee of future results. All financial data and other information are not warranted as to completeness or accuracy and are subject to change without notice.

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From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sun Oct 21 14:33:00 2012
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 12:33:00 -0600
Subject: get each pair from a string.
Message-ID: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>

I am looking for a good way to get every pair from a string. For example,
input:
x = 'apple'
output
'ap'
'pp'
'pl'
'le'

I am not seeing a obvious way to do this without multiple for loops, but
maybe there is not :-)
In the end I am going to what to get triples, quads....... also.

Thanks
Vincent
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From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sun Oct 21 14:51:51 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 12:51:51 -0600
Subject: get each pair from a string.
In-Reply-To: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnxjOAhO2eS111VdjCtbpKc_raB+pyo088i64ABb-u95A@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Vincent Davis
<vincent at vincentdavis.net> wrote:
> I am looking for a good way to get every pair from a string. For example,
> input:
> x = 'apple'
> output
> 'ap'
> 'pp'
> 'pl'
> 'le'
>
> I am not seeing a obvious way to do this without multiple for loops, but
> maybe there is not :-)

Use the "pairwaise" recipe from the itertools docs:

def pairwise(iterable):
    "s -> (s0,s1), (s1,s2), (s2, s3), ..."
    a, b = tee(iterable)
    next(b, None)
    return izip(a, b)

> In the end I am going to what to get triples, quads....... also.

Generalizing:

def nwise(iterable, n=2):
    iters = tee(iterable, n)
    for i, it in enumerate(iters):
        for _ in range(i):
            next(it, None)
    return izip(*iters)


From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sun Oct 21 14:58:52 2012
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 12:58:52 -0600
Subject: get each pair from a string.
In-Reply-To: <k61fr6$s5m$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<k61fr6$s5m$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CALyJZZUui_Z_M6toRRiRmAhsGscCj_O0POw9Cb8Z8jOqW5O50g@mail.gmail.com>

@Emile,
I feel a little stupid, in my mind it was more difficult than in reality.

x = 'apple'
for f in range(len(x)-1):
    print(x[f:f+2])

@Ian,
Thanks for that I was just looking in to that. I wonder which is faster I
have a large set of strings to process. I'll try some timings if I get a
chance later today.


Thanks again!
Vincent




On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 12:45 AM, Emile van Sebille <emile at fenx.com> wrote:

> On 10/21/2012 11:33 AM, Vincent Davis wrote:
>
>> I am looking for a good way to get every pair from a string. For example,
>> input:
>> x = 'apple'
>> output
>> 'ap'
>> 'pp'
>> 'pl'
>> 'le'
>>
>> I am not seeing a obvious way to do this without multiple for loops, but
>> maybe there is not :-)
>> In the end I am going to what to get triples, quads....... also.
>>
>>
> How far have you gotten?  Show us the loops you're trying now and any
> errors you're getting.
>
> Emile
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-list<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>
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From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Oct 21 15:05:59 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 20:05:59 +0100
Subject: get each pair from a string.
In-Reply-To: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k61gsv$5rk$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 21/10/2012 19:33, Vincent Davis wrote:
> I am looking for a good way to get every pair from a string. For example,
> input:
> x = 'apple'
> output
> 'ap'
> 'pp'
> 'pl'
> 'le'
>
> I am not seeing a obvious way to do this without multiple for loops, but
> maybe there is not :-)
> In the end I am going to what to get triples, quads....... also.
>
> Thanks
> Vincent
>

I suggest that you try taking slices out of your apple :)  Start here 
http://docs.python.org/tutorial/introduction.html

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sun Oct 21 15:06:11 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 13:06:11 -0600
Subject: get each pair from a string.
In-Reply-To: <CALyJZZUui_Z_M6toRRiRmAhsGscCj_O0POw9Cb8Z8jOqW5O50g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<k61fr6$s5m$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CALyJZZUui_Z_M6toRRiRmAhsGscCj_O0POw9Cb8Z8jOqW5O50g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=4WxNw7+q4GWcULSNYxFinJkpbpc_u8s97bf8RUjty7w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Vincent Davis
<vincent at vincentdavis.net> wrote:
> x = 'apple'
> for f in range(len(x)-1):
>     print(x[f:f+2])
>
> @Ian,
> Thanks for that I was just looking in to that. I wonder which is faster I
> have a large set of strings to process. I'll try some timings if I get a
> chance later today.

The solution you came up with is probably faster, but less general --
it will only work on sliceable sequences like strings, not arbitrary
iterables.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Oct 21 15:11:03 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Oct 2012 19:11:03 GMT
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2543.1350692652.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<5083ad3e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2582.1350811250.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5083c7da$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2588.1350819797.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <508448c6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 22:43:07 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 9:00 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> Er, no. Note spelling of "source code" vs "souce code". Hence the grin.
> 
> Ahh. I totally didn't see that, I'm way too used to reading past typos.

As a programmer, doesn't that screw up your debugging ability?


> Sure. Printing out *source* code, that's altogether different.
> 
> Me, though, I don't print anything. Paper and I are not exactly on
> speaking terms; the last time we met, he cut me, and that's one of the
> rudest things you can do to someone.

Man, you must have deserved it. Paper, he don't just cut anybody.


-- 
Steven


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Sun Oct 21 15:23:04 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:23:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2543.1350692652.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<5083ad3e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2582.1350811250.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5083c7da$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2588.1350819797.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508448c6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <k61i2o$63u$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-21, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 22:43:07 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 9:00 PM, Steven D'Aprano
>> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>>> Er, no. Note spelling of "source code" vs "souce code". Hence the grin.
>> 
>> Ahh. I totally didn't see that, I'm way too used to reading past typos.
>
> As a programmer, doesn't that screw up your debugging ability?

Indeed it does.

I spent a half hour the other day trying to figure out what was wrong
with a line of PHP code, when it was nothing but a mis-spelled
variable name.  [I've only been working with PHP a short time, but
have quickly grown to dislike it.]

-- 
Grant




From roy at panix.com  Sun Oct 21 16:19:08 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 16:19:08 -0400
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2543.1350692652.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<5083ad3e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2582.1350811250.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5083c7da$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2588.1350819797.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508448c6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<k61i2o$63u$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <roy-568C76.16190821102012@news.panix.com>

In article <k61i2o$63u$1 at reader1.panix.com>,
 Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 2012-10-21, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> > On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 22:43:07 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 9:00 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> >> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> >>> Er, no. Note spelling of "source code" vs "souce code". Hence the grin.
> >> 
> >> Ahh. I totally didn't see that, I'm way too used to reading past typos.
> >
> > As a programmer, doesn't that screw up your debugging ability?
> 
> Indeed it does.

The human brain is amazingly good at real-time error correction.  For 
the most part, this improves communication since it lets people make all 
sorts of minor errors in both spoken and written language without 
seriously degrading comprehension.

The down-side is that you hear (and read) what you're expecting to hear 
(or read).  This makes us really suck as things like finding typos in 
variable names.

> I spent a half hour the other day trying to figure out what was wrong
> with a line of PHP code, when it was nothing but a mis-spelled
> variable name.  [I've only been working with PHP a short time, but
> have quickly grown to dislike it.]

Of course, the same can happen in Python.  I could do:

foo = "default value"
if blah == 47:
   fooo = "some other value"
print foo

No syntax error, no NameError, just the wrong thing printing.  This does 
not in any way detract from the fact that PHP is a horrible language.  
Trust me, if you continue to use it, your dislike for it will only grow.  
It is truly evil.  Have you discovered "unexpected 
T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM" yet?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Oct 21 16:22:18 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 07:22:18 +1100
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <508448c6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2543.1350692652.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<5083ad3e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2582.1350811250.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5083c7da$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2588.1350819797.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508448c6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrhgPAkSmEpCc7wZg9C-WrBiXxWtYEP14DNLMFkSSFY6w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 6:11 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 22:43:07 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 9:00 PM, Steven D'Aprano
>> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>>> Er, no. Note spelling of "source code" vs "souce code". Hence the grin.
>>
>> Ahh. I totally didn't see that, I'm way too used to reading past typos.
>
> As a programmer, doesn't that screw up your debugging ability?

Reading-past-typos applies mainly to English, which is a pretty
redundant language. In code, it would only apply to variable names;
with (effectively) single words/tokens standing alone, the automatic
correction doesn't really apply. But yes, sometimes I have stared at a
piece of code for a long time without knowing why there's an error on
line X. (This is another good reason to require that all variables be
declared, incidentally. I might have a variable called "source" but
not "souce", so using the other causes an instant compile-time failure
on the exact line with the bug.)

And Grant, I agree; PHP does not make life easy.

>> Sure. Printing out *source* code, that's altogether different.
>>
>> Me, though, I don't print anything. Paper and I are not exactly on
>> speaking terms; the last time we met, he cut me, and that's one of the
>> rudest things you can do to someone.
>
> Man, you must have deserved it. Paper, he don't just cut anybody.

Perhaps. Also, perhaps I've just finished Hell Week and am behaving
less than sanely, with a strong tendency to quote/reference Through
The Looking Glass. :)

ChrisA


From timothy.c.delaney at gmail.com  Sun Oct 21 16:27:23 2012
From: timothy.c.delaney at gmail.com (Tim Delaney)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 07:27:23 +1100
Subject: Python does not take up available physical memory
In-Reply-To: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E064010@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
	<k5s743$6jl$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2523.1350673875.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d04b$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E064010@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
Message-ID: <CAN8CLgkaEG_NA57=_KK1matcbm0C-JDjBnH+mvP9sVmaCOZGkA@mail.gmail.com>

On 22 October 2012 01:14, Pradipto Banerjee <
pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com> wrote:

> I tried this on a different PC with 12 GB RAM. As expected, this time,
> reading the data was no issue. I noticed that for large files, Python takes
> up 2.5x size in memory compared to size on disk, for the case when each
> line in the file is retained as a string within a Python list. As an
> anecdote, for MATLAB, the similar overhead is 2x, slightly lower than
> Python, and each line in the file was retained as string within a MATLAB
> cell. I'm curious, has any one compared the overhead of data in memory for
> other languages like for instance Ruby?


What version of Python were you using? 2.7? 3.2? 3.3?

If you can, try running the same program in Python 3.3 and compare the
amount of memory used and report it here. It sounds like this might be a
case that would greatly benefit from the new string representation in 3.3.

If you're using Python 3.x then the "byte" and "bytearray" types might be
of interest to you:
http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/stdtypes.html#binary-sequence-types-bytes-bytearray-memoryview

Alternatively, the "array" type might be useful:
http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/array.html

As to the core problem, I can only echo what others have said - only hold
in memory what you absolutely have to. There are various techniques to
avoid holding unnecessary data in memory that have been mentioned. One I
haven't seen here yet (I may have missed it) is dumping the data into a
database of some form and using it's capabilities.

Tim Delaney
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From aclark at aclark.net  Sun Oct 21 16:27:47 2012
From: aclark at aclark.net (Alex Clark)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 16:27:47 -0400
Subject: Interest in seeing sh.py in the stdlib
References: <CADijH1Xyu+Nzku8C0pR-Wh+eTPvSZmbEMO49YiZBYN+11Fr9xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANy1k1g6h4XAjSUKmOFDsy2Zc+sDMdjc2cynn6=MjkwZnnPsUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<0v98885ijmgb2lmaj8dp64ri9hvg3dsn4t@invalid.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <k61ls1$brb$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2012-10-21 16:59:16 +0000, Dennis Lee Bieber said:

> On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 07:41:52 -0600, Jason Friedman <jason at powerpull.net>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
>> 
>> Pretty slick.  My only concern is portability, are there other
>> examples of modules (excepting Win32) that work on some platforms and
>> not others?
> 
> 	Just scan the library reference and you'll find a number of
> modules/functions that, even if available on all OS, behave slightly
> differently (look up mmap, for example; or readline)

I was just getting used to it as PBS :-) Other than really liking your 
lib? I'm not convinced it would be a good candidate for the stdlib, 
yet. E.g. Not every good lib belongs in the stdlib. That said, if sh.py 
continues to gain popularity (akin to e.g. requests) I suspect the 
"right people" (core developers?) will see it. I'm also curious how 
that happens, would a PEP be a good place to propose inclusion in the 
stdlib?


-- 
Alex Clark ? https://www.gittip.com/aclark4life/




From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Oct 21 16:38:31 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 07:38:31 +1100
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <roy-568C76.16190821102012@news.panix.com>
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2543.1350692652.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<5083ad3e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2582.1350811250.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5083c7da$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2588.1350819797.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508448c6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<k61i2o$63u$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<roy-568C76.16190821102012@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpPcoh=dzNfO-H_F+wcJbUgf6LjBVHhXtmf-R87Bcq75g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 7:19 AM, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
> Of course, the same can happen in Python.  I could do:
>
> foo = "default value"
> if blah == 47:
>    fooo = "some other value"
> print foo
>
> No syntax error, no NameError, just the wrong thing printing.

Yeah, that's the worst kind of bug. No error, just wrong behaviour.
This kind of issue is one of the "balancing downsides" of the freedom
of not requiring variable declarations. For small scripts, it's not a
problem, and Python and PHP both save you the hassle of explicitly
telling the language that you really do know what you're doing, and
that's a Good Thing. For large modules, debugging creeps up in
significance, and variable declarations are less of a cost.
JaCMaScript in "use strict" mode and a good linter can catch a lot of
these sorts of bugs, though it has its own weirdnesses (why does a
'var' statement apply to the whole function regardless of where it
is?). C-derived languages with proper block scope have a good chance
of catching bugs of this nature at compile time, but at the cost of
demanding code that's mainly there to satisfy the compiler ("isn't it
OBVIOUS that I want this to be an integer? I'm assigning an integer to
it!").

> This does
> not in any way detract from the fact that PHP is a horrible language.
> Trust me, if you continue to use it, your dislike for it will only grow.
> It is truly evil.  Have you discovered "unexpected
> T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM" yet?

The double-double-dot-in-Hebrew token name isn't actually a bad error;
the only problem is the token name itself. If it said "unexpected
T_SCOPE" or something, it'd be easier to debug. Several of PHP's most
annoying issues are solved in version 5.4 (array indexing a function
call that returns an array now works), but there's still a huge
fundamental that's unsolved: Unicode support. Python FTW there,
especially now that PEP 393 means strings are as compact as possible.

ChrisA


From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Sun Oct 21 16:50:42 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 21:50:42 +0100
Subject: get each pair from a string.
In-Reply-To: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qVC--+CaMWSwJnw4BTVeF41Jko=-=y4i8MEppC=DGF9gA@mail.gmail.com>

On 21 October 2012 19:33, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net> wrote:

> I am looking for a good way to get every pair from a string. For example,
> input:
> x = 'apple'
> output
> 'ap'
> 'pp'
> 'pl'
> 'le'
>
> I am not seeing a obvious way to do this without multiple for loops, but
> maybe there is not :-)
> In the end I am going to what to get triples, quads....... also.
>

The best way for *sliceable* objects is probably your way. However, not all
items can be sliced.

One way is this:

Let us say you have a string:

> >>> my_string = "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz"
> >>> my_string
> 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'


If you are to "zip" that, you get a "zip object"

>  >>> zip(my_string)
> <zip object at 0x1b67f38>


So you want to turn it back into a list:

> >>> list(zip(my_string))
> [('a',), ('b',), ('c',), ('d',), ('e',), ('f',), ('g',), ('h',), ('i',),
> ('j',), ('k',), ('l',), ('m',), ('n',), ('o',), ('p',), ('q',), ('r',),
> ('s',), ('t',), ('u',), ('v',), ('w',), ('x',), ('y',), ('z',)]


So why would you want "zip" anyway? Let us see what it does with two inputs.

> >>> list(zip(my_string, my_string))
> [('a', 'a'), ('b', 'b'), ('c', 'c'), ('d', 'd'), ('e', 'e'), ('f', 'f'),
> ('g', 'g'), ('h', 'h'), ('i', 'i'), ('j', 'j'), ('k', 'k'), ('l', 'l'),
> ('m', 'm'), ('n', 'n'), ('o', 'o'), ('p', 'p'), ('q', 'q'), ('r', 'r'),
> ('s', 's'), ('t', 't'), ('u', 'u'), ('v', 'v'), ('w', 'w'), ('x', 'x'),
> ('y', 'y'), ('z', 'z')]


I see. It goes over the first and takes an item, then over the second and
takes an item, and then puts them together. It then does this for all the
items in each.

All we want to do is offset the second item:

> >>> list(zip(my_string, my_string[1:]))
> [('a', 'b'), ('b', 'c'), ('c', 'd'), ('d', 'e'), ('e', 'f'), ('f', 'g'),
> ('g', 'h'), ('h', 'i'), ('i', 'j'), ('j', 'k'), ('k', 'l'), ('l', 'm'),
> ('m', 'n'), ('n', 'o'), ('o', 'p'), ('p', 'q'), ('q', 'r'), ('r', 's'),
> ('s', 't'), ('t', 'u'), ('u', 'v'), ('v', 'w'), ('w', 'x'), ('x', 'y'),
> ('y', 'z')]


And then convert the results to single strings:

> >>> ["".join(strs) for strs in zip(my_string, my_string[1:])]
> ['ab', 'bc', 'cd', 'de', 'ef', 'fg', 'gh', 'hi', 'ij', 'jk', 'kl', 'lm',
> 'mn', 'no', 'op', 'pq', 'qr', 'rs', 'st', 'tu', 'uv', 'vw', 'wx', 'xy',
> 'yz']


And this can be generalised in a more complicated way:

> >>> ["".join(strs) for strs in zip(*[my_string[n:] for n in range(4)])]
> ['abcd', 'bcde', 'cdef', 'defg', 'efgh', 'fghi', 'ghij', 'hijk', 'ijkl',
> 'jklm', 'klmn', 'lmno', 'mnop', 'nopq', 'opqr', 'pqrs', 'qrst', 'rstu',
> 'stuv', 'tuvw', 'uvwx', 'vwxy', 'wxyz']


Which can work with iterables:

> >>> from itertools import islice
> >>> ["".join(strs) for strs in zip(*[islice(my_string, n, None) for n in
> range(4)])]
> ['abcd', 'bcde', 'cdef', 'defg', 'efgh', 'fghi', 'ghij', 'hijk', 'ijkl',
> 'jklm', 'klmn', 'lmno', 'mnop', 'nopq', 'opqr', 'pqrs', 'qrst', 'rstu',
> 'stuv', 'tuvw', 'uvwx', 'vwxy', 'wxyz']


This will be much *faster* for short sequences made from massive strings
and much *slower* for long sequences made from medium-sized strings.
The first method *slices*, which copies a part of the whole string. This is
slow for large copies.
The second method* loops until it reaches the start*. This is slow when the
start is a long way in.

However, if you want to use slice-able items, the best way is the one
you've already worked out, as it does no extra copying or looping.
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From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Sun Oct 21 17:00:31 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 22:00:31 +0100
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpPcoh=dzNfO-H_F+wcJbUgf6LjBVHhXtmf-R87Bcq75g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2543.1350692652.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<5083ad3e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
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	<5083c7da$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
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	<508448c6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<k61i2o$63u$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<roy-568C76.16190821102012@news.panix.com>
	<CAPTjJmpPcoh=dzNfO-H_F+wcJbUgf6LjBVHhXtmf-R87Bcq75g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qUy8N65gOQc4J+aqQ0g6LATS8B-HTGH40iaZnH_i4Qnpw@mail.gmail.com>

On 21 October 2012 21:38, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 7:19 AM, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
> > Of course, the same can happen in Python.  I could do:
> >
> > foo = "default value"
> > if blah == 47:
> >    fooo = "some other value"
> > print foo
> >
> > No syntax error, no NameError, just the wrong thing printing.
>
> Yeah, that's the worst kind of bug. No error, just wrong behaviour.
>

Au contraire, the *worst* kind is code that is wrong that - for now -
happens to work... and you have no clue why.


> This kind of issue is one of the "balancing downsides" of the freedom
> of not requiring variable declarations. For small scripts, it's not a
> problem, and Python and PHP both save you the hassle of explicitly
> telling the language that you really do know what you're doing, and
> that's a Good Thing. For large modules, debugging creeps up in
> significance, and variable declarations are less of a cost.
> JaCMaScript in "use strict" mode and a good linter can catch a lot of
> these sorts of bugs, though it has its own weirdnesses (why does a
> 'var' statement apply to the whole function regardless of where it
> is?). C-derived languages with proper block scope have a good chance
> of catching bugs of this nature at compile time, but at the cost of
> demanding code that's mainly there to satisfy the compiler ("isn't it
> OBVIOUS that I want this to be an integer? I'm assigning an integer to
> it!").
>
> > This does
> > not in any way detract from the fact that PHP is a horrible language.
> > Trust me, if you continue to use it, your dislike for it will only grow.
> > It is truly evil.  Have you discovered "unexpected
> > T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM" yet?
>
> The double-double-dot-in-Hebrew token name isn't actually a bad error;
> the only problem is the token name itself. If it said "unexpected
> T_SCOPE" or something, it'd be easier to debug. Several of PHP's most
> annoying issues are solved in version 5.4 (array indexing a function
> call that returns an array now works), but there's still a huge
> fundamental that's unsolved: Unicode support. Python FTW there,
> especially now that PEP 393 means strings are as compact as possible.
>
> ChrisA
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Sun Oct 21 17:48:43 2012
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 23:48:43 +0200
Subject: get each pair from a string.
In-Reply-To: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHzaPEOFuRNePTFisn68kcqFsTYQgc6NEgOLjBfpX23hOii6tQ@mail.gmail.com>

2012/10/21 Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net>:
> I am looking for a good way to get every pair from a string. For example,
> input:
> x = 'apple'
> output
> 'ap'
> 'pp'
> 'pl'
> 'le'
>
> I am not seeing a obvious way to do this without multiple for loops, but
> maybe there is not :-)
> In the end I am going to what to get triples, quads....... also.
>
> Thanks
> Vincent
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Hi,
just another - probably less canonical - approach using the new regex
library could be (assuming the input sequence is always a string):

>>> import regex # http://pypi.python.org/pypi/regex
>>> regex.findall("..", "abcdefghijklm", overlapped=True)
['ab', 'bc', 'cd', 'de', 'ef', 'fg', 'gh', 'hi', 'ij', 'jk', 'kl', 'lm']
>>> regex.findall("...", "abcdefghijklm", overlapped=True)
['abc', 'bcd', 'cde', 'def', 'efg', 'fgh', 'ghi', 'hij', 'ijk', 'jkl', 'klm']
>>>

If the newline \n could appear in the text, an appropriate pattern
would be e.g. "(?s)..."

regards,
   vbr


From walterhurry at lavabit.com  Sun Oct 21 17:58:26 2012
From: walterhurry at lavabit.com (Walter Hurry)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 21:58:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<roy-CFF5A4.16372320102012@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <k61r62$66c$1@news.albasani.net>

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 16:37:23 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:

>              sys.stderr.write("Error: Can't find the file 'settings.py'
> in the directory containing %r.\nYou'll have to run django-profile.py,
> passing it your settings module.\n(If the file settings.py does indeed
> exist, it's causing an ImportError somehow.)\n" % __file__)

textwrap.dedent?



From zhushenli at gmail.com  Sun Oct 21 19:29:12 2012
From: zhushenli at gmail.com (David)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 16:29:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Recursive Generator Error?
Message-ID: <d1dbc8a7-1ec6-474c-96d7-b95a066125dd@googlegroups.com>

I have a tree-like data structure, the basic elements are hash tables,
and they are grouped into lists, like [[{'a':1},[{'b':2}]]].
And I want to flat the lists and visit hash table one by one, like {'a':1}, {'b':2}.
But my program didn't work as I wish. When it entered the 2nd
flat_yield, it threw a GeneratorExit. Is there anything wrong?
Thank you very much!

#- - - - - - - - - - 
def flat_yield(tbl_list):
    for t in tbl_list:
        if type(t) == type({}):
            yield t
        elif type(t) == type([]):
            flat_yield(t)
a = [[{'a':1},[{'b':2}]]]
for i in flat_yield(a):
    print i


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Oct 21 19:59:39 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:59:39 -0400
Subject: Recursive Generator Error?
In-Reply-To: <d1dbc8a7-1ec6-474c-96d7-b95a066125dd@googlegroups.com>
References: <d1dbc8a7-1ec6-474c-96d7-b95a066125dd@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k6229b$3o0$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/21/2012 7:29 PM, David wrote:
> I have a tree-like data structure, the basic elements are hash tables,
> and they are grouped into lists, like [[{'a':1},[{'b':2}]]].
> And I want to flat the lists and visit hash table one by one, like {'a':1}, {'b':2}.
> But my program didn't work as I wish. When it entered the 2nd
> flat_yield, it threw a GeneratorExit. Is there anything wrong?

1. The Python version is not specified.
2. You used 2.x; in 3.3 the code does exactly what I would expect, which 
is to say, nothing. No output, no error, no traceback ;-)
3. The traceback is missing from this post.

> #- - - - - - - - - -
> def flat_yield(tbl_list):
>      for t in tbl_list:
>          if type(t) == type({}):
>              yield t
>          elif type(t) == type([]):
>              flat_yield(t)

4. Think harder about what that expression does.

> a = [[{'a':1},[{'b':2}]]]
> for i in flat_yield(a):
>      print i

Hint: it calls flat_yield, which returns a generator, which is then 
discarded. You might have well written 'pass'.

Solution: use the recursively called generator and recursively yield 
what it yields. Replace 'flat_yield(t)' with

             for item in flat_yield(t):
                 yield item

and the output is what you want.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tolidtm at gmail.com  Sun Oct 21 20:02:27 2012
From: tolidtm at gmail.com (Anatoli Hristov)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 02:02:27 +0200
Subject: program loaded in memory
Message-ID: <CAKhY55NWpOxpTdTNi6i1vio0u9utL72Gq6CA1w81QFNmQz8+RQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I need an advice about a small script I run 24/24 7/7.

It's a script converted to EXE using py2exe and this script takes -
grows 30kb RAM on each loop which means that for 10hours it grows up
with 180mb memory. is there something I can do ?
>From the ini file I'm loading only the URL and the interval of
downloading the file
The script:

import time
import urllib

exec(open("iccm.ini").read())

loop = 0
while loop == 0:

    time.sleep(interval*60)
    try:
        urllib.urlretrieve ('"'URL'"'+"/hours.xml", "c:\\config\\hours.xml")
    except IOError:
        pass

Thanks


From d at davea.name  Sun Oct 21 20:20:33 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 20:20:33 -0400
Subject: program loaded in memory
In-Reply-To: <CAKhY55NWpOxpTdTNi6i1vio0u9utL72Gq6CA1w81QFNmQz8+RQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKhY55NWpOxpTdTNi6i1vio0u9utL72Gq6CA1w81QFNmQz8+RQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50849151.1080807@davea.name>

On 10/21/2012 08:02 PM, Anatoli Hristov wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I need an advice about a small script I run 24/24 7/7.
>
> It's a script converted to EXE using py2exe and this script takes -
> grows 30kb RAM on each loop which means that for 10hours it grows up
> with 180mb memory. is there something I can do ?
> >From the ini file I'm loading only the URL and the interval of
> downloading the file
> The script:
>
> import time
> import urllib
>
> exec(open("iccm.ini").read())

This line doesn't do anything useful.  And I would start by eliminating
the exec() call.

>
> loop = 0
> while loop == 0:
Since nothing ever modifies loop, you should just make it

    while True:
>
>     time.sleep(interval*60)

NameError: name 'interval' is not defined

>     try:
>         urllib.urlretrieve ('"'URL'"'+"/hours.xml", "c:\\config\\hours.xml")

SyntaxError: invalid syntax

>     except IOError:
>         pass
>
> Thanks

Please post the actual code you're running, as well as the Python
version.  Also, explain how you decided that it grows by 30kb each loop.

You also should try the same code without py2exe;  see if it runs any
differently.

The two errors I show are from Python 2.7. Naturally, if you post an
error, you should give the full traceback.

-- 

DaveA



From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sun Oct 21 20:26:30 2012
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 18:26:30 -0600
Subject: get each pair from a string.
In-Reply-To: <CAHzaPEOFuRNePTFisn68kcqFsTYQgc6NEgOLjBfpX23hOii6tQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHzaPEOFuRNePTFisn68kcqFsTYQgc6NEgOLjBfpX23hOii6tQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALyJZZVWbCsBw8+YK-WxXp=dm1FU+5YnRk7Z5Qddv7VYnSjUEg@mail.gmail.com>

@vbr
Thats interesting. I would never have come up with that.

Vincent



On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Vlastimil Brom <vlastimil.brom at gmail.com>wrote:

> vbr
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From tolidtm at gmail.com  Sun Oct 21 20:31:58 2012
From: tolidtm at gmail.com (Anatoli Hristov)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 02:31:58 +0200
Subject: program loaded in memory
In-Reply-To: <50849151.1080807@davea.name>
References: <CAKhY55NWpOxpTdTNi6i1vio0u9utL72Gq6CA1w81QFNmQz8+RQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50849151.1080807@davea.name>
Message-ID: <8497844152128210023@unknownmsgid>

Yes sorry, the name var(interval) is loaded from the ini file and also
the Url. The reason is that the ini file will be configured from
someone else. Example of the file

URL = www # define your url
interval = 1 # minutes for sync

I see in the task manager each time it downloads the file that it
grows up with 30kb.
And I'm using Python 2.7 on windows 7

Thanks


On 22 Oct 2012, at 02:21, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:

> On 10/21/2012 08:02 PM, Anatoli Hristov wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I need an advice about a small script I run 24/24 7/7.
>>
>> It's a script converted to EXE using py2exe and this script takes -
>> grows 30kb RAM on each loop which means that for 10hours it grows up
>> with 180mb memory. is there something I can do ?
>>> From the ini file I'm loading only the URL and the interval of
>> downloading the file
>> The script:
>>
>> import time
>> import urllib
>>
>> exec(open("iccm.ini").read())
>
> This line doesn't do anything useful.  And I would start by eliminating
> the exec() call.
>
>>
>> loop = 0
>> while loop == 0:
> Since nothing ever modifies loop, you should just make it
>
>    while True:
>>
>>    time.sleep(interval*60)
>
> NameError: name 'interval' is not defined
>
>>    try:
>>        urllib.urlretrieve ('"'URL'"'+"/hours.xml", "c:\\config\\hours.xml")
>
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
>>    except IOError:
>>        pass
>>
>> Thanks
>
> Please post the actual code you're running, as well as the Python
> version.  Also, explain how you decided that it grows by 30kb each loop.
>
> You also should try the same code without py2exe;  see if it runs any
> differently.
>
> The two errors I show are from Python 2.7. Naturally, if you post an
> error, you should give the full traceback.
>
> --
>
> DaveA
>


From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sun Oct 21 20:33:55 2012
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 18:33:55 -0600
Subject: get each pair from a string.
In-Reply-To: <k61kd7$ka$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<k61fr6$s5m$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CALyJZZUui_Z_M6toRRiRmAhsGscCj_O0POw9Cb8Z8jOqW5O50g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=4WxNw7+q4GWcULSNYxFinJkpbpc_u8s97bf8RUjty7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<k61kd7$ka$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CALyJZZWHBv+TSvqK270X2AYfjhP5jKmE0feiRJV=FTQUsUzkhg@mail.gmail.com>

To All,
I appreciate the range of answers and the time each of you take to think
about and answer my question. Whether or not I use them I find them all
educational.
Thanks again.

Vincent



On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 2:03 AM, Emile van Sebille <emile at fenx.com> wrote:

> On 10/21/2012 12:06 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Vincent Davis
>> <vincent at vincentdavis.net> wrote:
>>
>>> x = 'apple'
>>> for f in range(len(x)-1):
>>>      print(x[f:f+2])
>>>
>>> @Ian,
>>> Thanks for that I was just looking in to that. I wonder which is faster I
>>> have a large set of strings to process. I'll try some timings if I get a
>>> chance later today.
>>>
>>
>> The solution you came up with is probably faster, but less general --
>> it will only work on sliceable sequences like strings, not arbitrary
>> iterables.
>>
>>
> So the simple loop is the right answer for sliceable sequences like
> strings, but not if your code needs to deal with arbitrary iterables such
> as those that the standard library authors are expected to handle.
>
> So, as OP's a self confessed newbie asking about slicing, why provide an
> example requiring knowledge of tee, enumerate, next and izip?
>
>
> def nwise(iterable, n=2):
>     iters = tee(iterable, n)
>     for i, it in enumerate(iters):
>         for _ in range(i):
>             next(it, None)
>     return izip(*iters)
>
> It's good that the standard library provides these tools as a convenience,
> but when all you need is a derringer, why reach for a howitzer?
>
> Emile
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-list<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>
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From zhushenli at gmail.com  Sun Oct 21 20:40:41 2012
From: zhushenli at gmail.com (David)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 17:40:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Recursive Generator Error?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2608.1350863992.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <d1dbc8a7-1ec6-474c-96d7-b95a066125dd@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2608.1350863992.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7f9d09d5-34a3-4d85-b996-b0023d46cfd8@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 22, 2012 7:59:53 AM UTC+8, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 10/21/2012 7:29 PM, David wrote:
> 
> > I have a tree-like data structure, the basic elements are hash tables,
> 
> > and they are grouped into lists, like [[{'a':1},[{'b':2}]]].
> 
> > And I want to flat the lists and visit hash table one by one, like {'a':1}, {'b':2}.
> 
> > But my program didn't work as I wish. When it entered the 2nd
> 
> > flat_yield, it threw a GeneratorExit. Is there anything wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 1. The Python version is not specified.
> 
> 2. You used 2.x; in 3.3 the code does exactly what I would expect, which 
> 
> is to say, nothing. No output, no error, no traceback ;-)
> 
> 3. The traceback is missing from this post.
> 
> 
> 
> > #- - - - - - - - - -
> 
> > def flat_yield(tbl_list):
> 
> >      for t in tbl_list:
> 
> >          if type(t) == type({}):
> 
> >              yield t
> 
> >          elif type(t) == type([]):
> 
> >              flat_yield(t)
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Think harder about what that expression does.
> 
> 
> 
> > a = [[{'a':1},[{'b':2}]]]
> 
> > for i in flat_yield(a):
> 
> >      print i
> 
> 
> 
> Hint: it calls flat_yield, which returns a generator, which is then 
> 
> discarded. You might have well written 'pass'.
> 
> 
> 
> Solution: use the recursively called generator and recursively yield 
> 
> what it yields. Replace 'flat_yield(t)' with
> 
> 
> 
>              for item in flat_yield(t):
> 
>                  yield item
> 
> 
> 
> and the output is what you want.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Terry Jan Reedy

Hi Terry, thank you! I use Python 2.7, and your solution works!

I have thought harder, still not very clear. 

If I have one "yield" in function, the function will become generator, and it can only be called in the form like "for item in function()" or "function.next()", and call the function directly will raise error, is it right?



From zhushenli at gmail.com  Sun Oct 21 20:40:41 2012
From: zhushenli at gmail.com (David)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 17:40:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Recursive Generator Error?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2608.1350863992.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <d1dbc8a7-1ec6-474c-96d7-b95a066125dd@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2608.1350863992.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7f9d09d5-34a3-4d85-b996-b0023d46cfd8@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 22, 2012 7:59:53 AM UTC+8, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 10/21/2012 7:29 PM, David wrote:
> 
> > I have a tree-like data structure, the basic elements are hash tables,
> 
> > and they are grouped into lists, like [[{'a':1},[{'b':2}]]].
> 
> > And I want to flat the lists and visit hash table one by one, like {'a':1}, {'b':2}.
> 
> > But my program didn't work as I wish. When it entered the 2nd
> 
> > flat_yield, it threw a GeneratorExit. Is there anything wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 1. The Python version is not specified.
> 
> 2. You used 2.x; in 3.3 the code does exactly what I would expect, which 
> 
> is to say, nothing. No output, no error, no traceback ;-)
> 
> 3. The traceback is missing from this post.
> 
> 
> 
> > #- - - - - - - - - -
> 
> > def flat_yield(tbl_list):
> 
> >      for t in tbl_list:
> 
> >          if type(t) == type({}):
> 
> >              yield t
> 
> >          elif type(t) == type([]):
> 
> >              flat_yield(t)
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Think harder about what that expression does.
> 
> 
> 
> > a = [[{'a':1},[{'b':2}]]]
> 
> > for i in flat_yield(a):
> 
> >      print i
> 
> 
> 
> Hint: it calls flat_yield, which returns a generator, which is then 
> 
> discarded. You might have well written 'pass'.
> 
> 
> 
> Solution: use the recursively called generator and recursively yield 
> 
> what it yields. Replace 'flat_yield(t)' with
> 
> 
> 
>              for item in flat_yield(t):
> 
>                  yield item
> 
> 
> 
> and the output is what you want.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Terry Jan Reedy

Hi Terry, thank you! I use Python 2.7, and your solution works!

I have thought harder, still not very clear. 

If I have one "yield" in function, the function will become generator, and it can only be called in the form like "for item in function()" or "function.next()", and call the function directly will raise error, is it right?



From d at davea.name  Sun Oct 21 20:47:32 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 20:47:32 -0400
Subject: program loaded in memory
In-Reply-To: <8497844152128210023@unknownmsgid>
References: <CAKhY55NWpOxpTdTNi6i1vio0u9utL72Gq6CA1w81QFNmQz8+RQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50849151.1080807@davea.name> <8497844152128210023@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <508497A4.7030208@davea.name>

On 10/21/2012 08:31 PM, Anatoli Hristov wrote:
> Yes sorry, the name var(interval) is loaded from the ini file and also
> the Url. The reason is that the ini file will be configured from
> someone else. Example of the file
> 
> URL = www # define your url
> interval = 1 # minutes for sync
> 
> I see in the task manager each time it downloads the file that it
> grows up with 30kb.
> And I'm using Python 2.7 on windows 7
> 
> Thanks
> 
So now, that eliminates one of the errors.  (Though import is much more
reasonable than exec(), and some config parser is better yet)

To fix the syntax error, you need + signs before and after the variable URL




-- 

DaveA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Oct 21 22:36:14 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Oct 2012 02:36:14 GMT
Subject: Recursive Generator Error?
References: <d1dbc8a7-1ec6-474c-96d7-b95a066125dd@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2608.1350863992.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2614.1350866449.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5084b11e$0$11126$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 17:40:41 -0700, David wrote:

> If I have one "yield" in function, the function will become generator,

Almost correct. The function becomes a *generator function*, that is, a 
function that returns a generator object.

Sometimes people abbreviate that to "generator", but that is ambiguous -- 
the term "generator" can mean either the function which includes yield in 
it, or the object that is returned.

> and it can only be called in the form like "for item in function()" or
> "function.next()", and call the function directly will raise error, is
> it right?

You can call the function directly, and it will return an generator 
object. You don't have to iterate over that generator object, although 
you normally will.

Example:

py> def test():
...     yield 42
... 
py> test
<function test at 0xb7425764>
py> type(test)
<type 'function'>
py> x = test()
py> x
<generator object test at 0xb71d4874>
py> type(x)
<type 'generator'>


-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Oct 21 22:50:14 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Oct 2012 02:50:14 GMT
Subject: program loaded in memory
References: <mailman.2609.1350864150.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5084b465$0$29897$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 02:02:27 +0200, Anatoli Hristov wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I need an advice about a small script I run 24/24 7/7.
> 
> It's a script converted to EXE using py2exe and this script takes -
> grows 30kb RAM on each loop which means that for 10hours it grows up
> with 180mb memory. is there something I can do ?

Probably. Find the memory leak and fix it.

What happens if you call it directly from Python, instead of using py2exe? 
Perhaps the memory leak is in py2exe.


> From the ini file I'm loading only the URL and the interval of
> downloading the file
> The script:
> 
> import time
> import urllib
> 
> exec(open("iccm.ini").read())

If you really must execute your data file as code, use:

execfile("iccm.ini")

in Python 2.x. Or better still, change the file to "iccm.py" and do:

from iccm import URL, interval

Or even better still, use the ConfigParser module to safely read the INI 
file and extract data from it, without executing it as code. Who knows 
what bugs might be caused by that?


> loop = 0
> while loop == 0:

Since that is never changed, the better way is:

while True:  # loops forever
    ...



>     time.sleep(interval*60)
>     try:
>         urllib.urlretrieve ('"'URL'"'+"/hours.xml",
>         "c:\\config\\hours.xml")


That's not your code, because it gives a syntax error. That code cannot 
run at all.

Please show us your ACTUAL code.


There are no obvious memory leaks in the code you show. Probably the 
memory leak is in the code you haven't shown us.



-- 
Steven


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Oct 21 22:51:35 2012
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 13:51:35 +1100
Subject: Preventing crap email from google?
References: <k5srto$aqr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2550.1350704129.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5uc04$p6b$2@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7w3917jk20.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> writes:

> Posts made via the google-groups web site are a problem, and I plonked
> them all years and years ago...

Walter Hurry <walterhurry at lavabit.com> writes:

> It is Google bloody Groups which is the problem. I should have plonked 
> posts from there ages ago, and am about to remedy that omission.

What narrowly-defined, precise filter rule should be used for this
purpose?

-- 
 \      ?Nothing is more sacred than the facts.? ?Sam Harris, _The End |
  `\                                                   of Faith_, 2004 |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From ian at feete.org  Mon Oct 22 00:19:31 2012
From: ian at feete.org (Ian Foote)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 05:19:31 +0100
Subject: get each pair from a string.
In-Reply-To: <k61kd7$ka$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<k61fr6$s5m$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CALyJZZUui_Z_M6toRRiRmAhsGscCj_O0POw9Cb8Z8jOqW5O50g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=4WxNw7+q4GWcULSNYxFinJkpbpc_u8s97bf8RUjty7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<k61kd7$ka$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <5084C953.1010209@feete.org>

On 22/10/12 09:03, Emile van Sebille wrote:
> So, as OP's a self confessed newbie asking about slicing, why provide an
> example requiring knowledge of tee, enumerate, next and izip?
>

Because not only the newbie will read the thread? I for one was 
interested to see all the different possible approaches, and their 
upsides and downsides.

Ian


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Oct 22 02:30:50 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Oct 2012 06:30:50 GMT
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2543.1350692652.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<5083ad3e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2582.1350811250.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5083c7da$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2588.1350819797.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508448c6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2601.1350850942.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5084e819$0$29897$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 07:22:18 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 6:11 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:

>>> Ahh. I totally didn't see that, I'm way too used to reading past
>>> typos.
>>
>> As a programmer, doesn't that screw up your debugging ability?
> 
> Reading-past-typos applies mainly to English, which is a pretty
> redundant language. In code, it would only apply to variable names; with
> (effectively) single words/tokens standing alone, the automatic
> correction doesn't really apply. But yes, sometimes I have stared at a
> piece of code for a long time without knowing why there's an error on
> line X. (This is another good reason to require that all variables be
> declared, incidentally. I might have a variable called "source" but not
> "souce", so using the other causes an instant compile-time failure on
> the exact line with the bug.)

"Another" good reason?

For languages without static types, what other reasons for declaring 
variables are there?



-- 
Steven


From emile at fenx.com  Mon Oct 22 02:45:39 2012
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 23:45:39 -0700
Subject: get each pair from a string.
In-Reply-To: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k61fr6$s5m$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/21/2012 11:33 AM, Vincent Davis wrote:
> I am looking for a good way to get every pair from a string. For example,
> input:
> x = 'apple'
> output
> 'ap'
> 'pp'
> 'pl'
> 'le'
>
> I am not seeing a obvious way to do this without multiple for loops, but
> maybe there is not :-)
> In the end I am going to what to get triples, quads....... also.
>

How far have you gotten?  Show us the loops you're trying now and any 
errors you're getting.

Emile





From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Oct 22 03:03:39 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:03:39 +1100
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <5084e819$0$29897$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2543.1350692652.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<5083ad3e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2582.1350811250.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5083c7da$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2588.1350819797.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508448c6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2601.1350850942.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5084e819$0$29897$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmphN0LEK9j+gMizZFtkcyB5S9LSdSZgQSmbxG4C1cXnsw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 5:30 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> For languages without static types, what other reasons for declaring
> variables are there?

The main one is scope nesting. Compare a few different languages.

Python: If you don't declare, it's global if you don't rebind it, but
local if you do. You may declare variables as global or nonlocal.

PHP: If you don't declare, it's local, but functions are in a separate scope.

C: If you don't declare, it's looked for in some broader scope. If
it's not declared in any scope, error.

All three approaches make reasonable sense. The PHP one is perfectly
consistent, but would be hopelessly impractical if all your function
names had to be marked off as globals. (Plus PHP has superglobals,
with their own Marvellous mess.) Python's system "just works" most of
the time, but can introduce yet another trap for the unsuspecting
newbie who doesn't understand the difference between rebinding and
mutating; I've not looked into multiple levels of closures but I
suspect there'll be odd limitations there, as there's only one
"nonlocal" keyword. The C style has administrative overhead (requiring
explicit declarations for all variables), but allows full flexibility
(variables having narrower scope than entire functions, infinite
nesting of scopes, etc).

Incidentally, variable declarations don't have to be connected with
static typing. JavaScript/ECMAScript simply has 'var x;' to declare
that x exists in this function. But it's hardly a language that I'd
hold up as a shining example; a var declaration anywhere in a function
makes that variable name local to that entire function. There's
actually no block scoping at all. And then there's the whole confusion
of the global object, 'this', and 'with' statements...

You knew I was going to cite it sooner or later :) Pike has true block
scoping, though unlike C++, Pike does not guarantee that destructors
will be called immediately at the close brace (but zero-reference
objects will be cleaned up, including destructor calls, at the next
function return - even if not the current function). Variables can be
mostly-statically-typed, or can be declared as 'mixed' and be rebound
freely (like in JS and Python). So scoped variable declarations and
static typing are quite orthogonal.

ChrisA


From emile at fenx.com  Mon Oct 22 03:07:13 2012
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 00:07:13 -0700
Subject: get each pair from a string.
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnxjOAhO2eS111VdjCtbpKc_raB+pyo088i64ABb-u95A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidnxjOAhO2eS111VdjCtbpKc_raB+pyo088i64ABb-u95A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k61h3l$7k1$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/21/2012 11:51 AM, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Vincent Davis
> <vincent at vincentdavis.net> wrote:
>> I am looking for a good way to get every pair from a string. For example,
>> input:
>> x = 'apple'
>> output
>> 'ap'
>> 'pp'
>> 'pl'
>> 'le'
>>
>> I am not seeing a obvious way to do this without multiple for loops, but
>> maybe there is not :-)
>
> Use the "pairwaise" recipe from the itertools docs:
>
> def pairwise(iterable):
>      "s -> (s0,s1), (s1,s2), (s2, s3), ..."
>      a, b = tee(iterable)
>      next(b, None)
>      return izip(a, b)
>
>> In the end I am going to what to get triples, quads....... also.
>
> Generalizing:
>
> def nwise(iterable, n=2):
>      iters = tee(iterable, n)
>      for i, it in enumerate(iters):
>          for _ in range(i):
>              next(it, None)
>      return izip(*iters)
>



Hmmm.  And it seemed so straightforward to me as:

 >>> groupsize=3
 >>> a = "applesauce"
 >>> for i in range(len(a)-groupsize+1): a[i:i+groupsize]
...
'app'
'ppl'
'ple'
'les'
'esa'
'sau'
'auc'
'uce'

Other than adding depth to my knowledge of the ever growing standard 
library, is there a reason to prefer pairwise over my simple loop?

Emile



From emile at fenx.com  Mon Oct 22 04:03:30 2012
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 01:03:30 -0700
Subject: get each pair from a string.
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid=4WxNw7+q4GWcULSNYxFinJkpbpc_u8s97bf8RUjty7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<k61fr6$s5m$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CALyJZZUui_Z_M6toRRiRmAhsGscCj_O0POw9Cb8Z8jOqW5O50g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=4WxNw7+q4GWcULSNYxFinJkpbpc_u8s97bf8RUjty7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k61kd7$ka$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/21/2012 12:06 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Vincent Davis
> <vincent at vincentdavis.net> wrote:
>> x = 'apple'
>> for f in range(len(x)-1):
>>      print(x[f:f+2])
>>
>> @Ian,
>> Thanks for that I was just looking in to that. I wonder which is faster I
>> have a large set of strings to process. I'll try some timings if I get a
>> chance later today.
>
> The solution you came up with is probably faster, but less general --
> it will only work on sliceable sequences like strings, not arbitrary
> iterables.
>

So the simple loop is the right answer for sliceable sequences like 
strings, but not if your code needs to deal with arbitrary iterables 
such as those that the standard library authors are expected to handle.

So, as OP's a self confessed newbie asking about slicing, why provide an 
example requiring knowledge of tee, enumerate, next and izip?

def nwise(iterable, n=2):
     iters = tee(iterable, n)
     for i, it in enumerate(iters):
         for _ in range(i):
             next(it, None)
     return izip(*iters)

It's good that the standard library provides these tools as a 
convenience, but when all you need is a derringer, why reach for a howitzer?

Emile




From barry at barrys-emacs.org  Mon Oct 22 04:37:23 2012
From: barry at barrys-emacs.org (Barry Scott)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:37:23 +0100
Subject: Python does not take up available physical memory
In-Reply-To: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E064010@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E063E45@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
	<k5s743$6jl$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2523.1350673875.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d04b$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23E064010@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
Message-ID: <AC0B1F7C-21AE-4A28-A59B-B980FDF0C470@barrys-emacs.org>

On 21 Oct 2012, at 15:14, Pradipto Banerjee <pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com> wrote:

> I tried this on a different PC with 12 GB RAM. As expected, this time, reading the data was no issue. I noticed that for large files, Python takes up 2.5x size in memory compared to size on disk, for the case when each line in the file is retained as a string within a Python list. As an anecdote, for MATLAB, the similar overhead is 2x, slightly lower than Python, and each line in the file was retained as string within a MATLAB cell. I'm curious, has any one compared the overhead of data in memory for other languages like for instance Ruby?
> 
Python 3.3 has changes to make string storage more efficient. See the whats new page.
http://docs.python.org/py3k/whatsnew/3.3.html "more compact unicode strings".

Barry
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From capt-obvious at yandex.ru  Mon Oct 22 06:55:15 2012
From: capt-obvious at yandex.ru (Paul Volkov)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 14:55:15 +0400
Subject: Compiling extension module (linker error)
Message-ID: <CAK38ikTsrBj_GsC35uedk0PWaFGGXek+VFT=AfUqqC9-PfFr6g@mail.gmail.com>

I am trying to compile an extension module with C++ Builder 6 for Python 3.3.
I converted python33.lib using coff2omf.exe and added this library
into my project.
I wonder why I get this error message while building:

[Linker Error] Unresolved external '_PyModule_Create2TraceRefs'
referenced from 'D:\WORK\FROMAGE\OUT\ROSE_UNIT.OBJ'

My source file:

//---------------------------------------------------------------------------

#include <Python.h>
#include <windows.h>
#pragma argsused

BOOL WINAPI DllMain(HINSTANCE hinstDLL, DWORD fwdreason, LPVOID lpvReserved)
{
        return 1;
}

static PyObject* __declspec(dllexport) testik(PyObject* self, PyObject* args)
{
return NULL;
}

static PyMethodDef FundRoseMethods[] = {
{"testik", testik, METH_VARARGS, "perform a test"},
{NULL, NULL, 0, NULL}
};

static struct PyModuleDef FundRoseModule = {
PyModuleDef_HEAD_INIT,
"FundRose",
NULL,
-1,
FundRoseMethods
};

PyMODINIT_FUNC
PyInit_FundRose(void)
{
return PyModule_Create(&FundRoseModule);
}

//---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From roy at panix.com  Mon Oct 22 08:29:07 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 08:29:07 -0400
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2543.1350692652.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<5083ad3e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2582.1350811250.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5083c7da$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2588.1350819797.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508448c6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2601.1350850942.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5084e819$0$29897$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <roy-AD7EA5.08290722102012@news.panix.com>

In article <5084e819$0$29897$c3e8da3$5496439d at news.astraweb.com>,
 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 07:22:18 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 6:11 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> > <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> 
> >>> Ahh. I totally didn't see that, I'm way too used to reading past
> >>> typos.
> >>
> >> As a programmer, doesn't that screw up your debugging ability?
> > 
> > Reading-past-typos applies mainly to English, which is a pretty
> > redundant language. In code, it would only apply to variable names; with
> > (effectively) single words/tokens standing alone, the automatic
> > correction doesn't really apply. But yes, sometimes I have stared at a
> > piece of code for a long time without knowing why there's an error on
> > line X. (This is another good reason to require that all variables be
> > declared, incidentally. I might have a variable called "source" but not
> > "souce", so using the other causes an instant compile-time failure on
> > the exact line with the bug.)
> 
> "Another" good reason?
> 
> For languages without static types, what other reasons for declaring 
> variables are there?

Variable declarations serve two purposes.  One is to declare the type 
(which obviously doesn't apply to Python).  The other is to declare the 
beginning of a scope.

On occasion, I will make typos in variable names which a 
scope-introduction declaration would have prevented.  If the cost of 
having to declare every variable would be justified by the rare bug it 
would prevent, is another question.

Pet peeve of the day...

Why do you have to write:

global foo
foo = 4

when

global foo = 4

would have been so much easier?


From walterhurry at lavabit.com  Mon Oct 22 09:05:29 2012
From: walterhurry at lavabit.com (Walter Hurry)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 13:05:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Preventing crap email from google?
References: <k5srto$aqr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2550.1350704129.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5uc04$p6b$2@reader1.panix.com>
	<mailman.2616.1350874312.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k63gao$ge8$1@news.albasani.net>

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 13:51:35 +1100, Ben Finney wrote:

> Walter Hurry <walterhurry at lavabit.com> writes:
> 
>> It is Google bloody Groups which is the problem. I should have plonked
>> posts from there ages ago, and am about to remedy that omission.
> 
> What narrowly-defined, precise filter rule should be used for this
> purpose?

Depends on how you read the list, I think. In my case, via Usenet 
(comp.lang.python) with Pan, so I shall filter on "googlegroups.com" in 
the Message-ID.



From michele.cecere at gmail.com  Mon Oct 22 09:15:04 2012
From: michele.cecere at gmail.com (mikcec82)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 06:15:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Blue Screen Python
In-Reply-To: <7c8701cc-1bc5-46ee-a83a-3e9a038ceada@googlegroups.com>
References: <7c8701cc-1bc5-46ee-a83a-3e9a038ceada@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <836cda48-556f-4b82-9efa-8e4e368ad841@googlegroups.com>

Il giorno venerd? 21 settembre 2012 16:04:48 UTC+2, mikcec82 ha scritto:
> Hallo to all,
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using Python 2.7.3 with Windows 7 @ 64 bit
> 
> and an Intel Core i3 -2350M CPU @2.30GHz 2.3GHz.
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes, when I'm programming in Python on my screen compare this blue screen:
> 
> http://imageshack.us/a/img228/8352/48579647436249494527021.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> Can you help on what is the issue, and how I can solve it?
> 
> 
> 
> If you need more info I'm available.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you so much,
> 
> Michele

Hi to all.

I solved the problem by creating a WINDOWS XP Virtual Machine (by installing Windows Remote Pc). In this way I have no more problems.

I hope this could be helpful to other people.

Have a nice day,
Michele


From vkv6111 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 22 09:59:09 2012
From: vkv6111 at gmail.com (vkv6111 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 06:59:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: LOOKING FOR VISITORS FOR YOUR SITE. GET DEDICATED TRAFFIC TO YOUR
	SITE.
Message-ID: <8efe8722-b6cd-435a-b1cb-abb92ba084c2@googlegroups.com>

stop wasting money on websites who lure you with increased traffic to your site, visit http://www.multilinesolution.blogspot.in/ and increase traffic to your site for free.


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 22 10:07:20 2012
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 07:07:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Preventing crap email from google?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2564.1350761003.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2545.1350693647.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<acec005e-1799-4f9c-9b56-b335ff0b4db5@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2564.1350761003.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e8820b49-8736-4e5b-8029-27e84135cf46@googlegroups.com>

> On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 21:21:11 -0700 (PDT), ru... at yahoo.com declaimed the
> following in gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
>> [I posted the following in another thread yesterday...]
>>
>> When you post from Google Groups you will sometimes
>> see a checkbox above the edit window that is a cc to
>> the python mailing list (<pytho... at python.org>)
>> which is checked by default.  
>>
>> If you uncheck that, you'll stop the double posting.
> 
> That is different from the Google Groups double-spacing ">" quoted
> material.

Yes, I realized that right after I clicked send.  However since 
it is also a common problem when posting from GG, maybe some
other readers of this thread will find it useful.

Re the specific problem mentioned, I just paste the original
message into an emacs window, add the quote marks and paste back
into the GG compose window.

Another alternative is to use "paste as quotation" into a mail
client compose window, and then paste back into GG.  A small 
PITA but not a big deal if GG is otherwise convenient.

But perhaps the same mentality that makes it just sooo hard
to read a double spaced post (that one is willing to killfile
a whole class of participants) is the same mentality that 
makes sooo hard to correct such posts to begin with.


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Oct 22 10:19:46 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 14:19:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: program loaded in memory
References: <mailman.2609.1350864150.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5084b465$0$29897$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <k63km1$f29$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-22, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 02:02:27 +0200, Anatoli Hristov wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I need an advice about a small script I run 24/24 7/7.
>> 
>> It's a script converted to EXE using py2exe and this script takes -
>> grows 30kb RAM on each loop which means that for 10hours it grows up
>> with 180mb memory. is there something I can do ?
>
> Probably. Find the memory leak and fix it.
>
> What happens if you call it directly from Python, instead of using py2exe? 
> Perhaps the memory leak is in py2exe.

I'm curious how there can be a memory leak in py2exe.  I thought all
it did was bundle up the python interpreter and the required libraries
into a "private" python installation that's then invoked by the
wrapper.  Does py2exe actually do something after the application has
started?

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! ONE LIFE TO LIVE for
                                  at               ALL MY CHILDREN in ANOTHER
                              gmail.com            WORLD all THE DAYS OF
                                                   OUR LIVES.


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Oct 22 10:21:36 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 14:21:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Preventing crap email from google?
References: <k5srto$aqr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2550.1350704129.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5uc04$p6b$2@reader1.panix.com>
	<mailman.2616.1350874312.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k63gao$ge8$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <k63kpg$f29$2@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-22, Walter Hurry <walterhurry at lavabit.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 13:51:35 +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
>
>> Walter Hurry <walterhurry at lavabit.com> writes:
>> 
>>> It is Google bloody Groups which is the problem. I should have plonked
>>> posts from there ages ago, and am about to remedy that omission.
>> 
>> What narrowly-defined, precise filter rule should be used for this
>> purpose?
>
> Depends on how you read the list, I think. In my case, via Usenet 
> (comp.lang.python) with Pan, so I shall filter on "googlegroups.com" in 
> the Message-ID.

Same here.  Here's the rule I have in slrn's .score file:

Score:: =-9999
 Message-ID: .*googlegroups.com

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Where does it go when
                                  at               you flush?
                              gmail.com            


From nobody at someplace.invalid  Mon Oct 22 10:35:58 2012
From: nobody at someplace.invalid (HoneyMonster)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 14:35:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Preventing crap email from google?
References: <k5srto$aqr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2550.1350704129.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5uc04$p6b$2@reader1.panix.com>
	<mailman.2616.1350874312.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k63gao$ge8$1@news.albasani.net> <k63kpg$f29$2@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <k63lke$rf1$1@news.albasani.net>

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 14:21:36 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2012-10-22, Walter Hurry <walterhurry at lavabit.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 13:51:35 +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
>>
>>> Walter Hurry <walterhurry at lavabit.com> writes:
>>> 
>>>> It is Google bloody Groups which is the problem. I should have
>>>> plonked posts from there ages ago, and am about to remedy that
>>>> omission.
>>> 
>>> What narrowly-defined, precise filter rule should be used for this
>>> purpose?
>>
>> Depends on how you read the list, I think. In my case, via Usenet
>> (comp.lang.python) with Pan, so I shall filter on "googlegroups.com" in
>> the Message-ID.
> 
> Same here.  Here's the rule I have in slrn's .score file:
> 
> Score:: =-9999
>  Message-ID: .*googlegroups.com

Actually I don't think the asterisk is necessay*. OTOH, I noticed that 
some are "To: comp.lang.python at googlegroups.com", so I put in a second 
rule:

Score:: =-9999
Message-ID: googlegroups\.com

Score:: =-9999
To: googlegroups\.com

* Or maybe the sytax differs slightly between slrn and Pan.


From walterhurry at lavabit.com  Mon Oct 22 10:43:09 2012
From: walterhurry at lavabit.com (Walter Hurry)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 14:43:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Preventing crap email from google?
References: <k5srto$aqr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2550.1350704129.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5uc04$p6b$2@reader1.panix.com>
	<mailman.2616.1350874312.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k63gao$ge8$1@news.albasani.net> <k63kpg$f29$2@reader1.panix.com>
	<k63lke$rf1$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <k63m1t$rf1$2@news.albasani.net>

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 14:35:58 +0000, HoneyMonster wrote:

<snip>

Sorry about the moniker on the above. I used it by accident - it's one I 
reserve for junk trapping.


From darcy at druid.net  Mon Oct 22 10:45:51 2012
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:45:51 -0400
Subject: Preventing crap email from google?
In-Reply-To: <e8820b49-8736-4e5b-8029-27e84135cf46@googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.2545.1350693647.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<acec005e-1799-4f9c-9b56-b335ff0b4db5@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2564.1350761003.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e8820b49-8736-4e5b-8029-27e84135cf46@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20121022104551.1b80a69e@dilbert>

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 07:07:20 -0700 (PDT)
rurpy at yahoo.com wrote:
> Re the specific problem mentioned, I just paste the original
> message into an emacs window, add the quote marks and paste back
> into the GG compose window.

If you are on Firefox you should check out the "It's All Text!"
plugin.  Not sure if it is available for other browsers.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.
IM: darcy at Vex.Net


From darcy at druid.net  Mon Oct 22 10:49:02 2012
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:49:02 -0400
Subject: Preventing crap email from google?
In-Reply-To: <k63kpg$f29$2@reader1.panix.com>
References: <k5srto$aqr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2550.1350704129.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5uc04$p6b$2@reader1.panix.com>
	<mailman.2616.1350874312.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k63gao$ge8$1@news.albasani.net> <k63kpg$f29$2@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20121022104902.1d8cba9b@dilbert>

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 14:21:36 +0000 (UTC)
Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Same here.  Here's the rule I have in slrn's .score file:

Here is the procmail one that I use:

:0 Hir
* ^List-Id:.*python-list.python.org
* ^From:.*@gmail.com
* ^Newsgroups:
/dev/null

This still allows people using a gmail account to post to the mailing
list through.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.
IM: darcy at Vex.Net


From kdawg44 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 22 10:51:53 2012
From: kdawg44 at gmail.com (Kevin Holleran)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:51:53 -0400
Subject: Is there a way to programmatically turn on remote registry?
In-Reply-To: <c1t3881ofvciftl2pjpkkm4cfjeacvftkj@invalid.netcom.com>
References: <CAN4UfGy6dkdtKiQ+ghh7=CirS9Lca8DOrHvEiKRefgWUSwVFDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671F47B@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
	<CAN4UfGx1JEzaTm_hKLH8Mf1N9qCB_d9qtNUTupFCkctUGaB2wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<c1t3881ofvciftl2pjpkkm4cfjeacvftkj@invalid.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <CAN4UfGzz81jvkzMByhQ3MAjpdFT_eNy9oRfcwa2j_PGFpoTePw@mail.gmail.com>

Back at it this morning.  The RPC was due to needing to run it under
another account (or so I think now...). However, the RemoteRegistry service
is not just STOPPED but DISABLED.

I am trying to see if there is a call to actually set the state to MANUAL.
 Then I can star the registry, grab what I need, stop the service, then set
it back to disabled....

Does anyone know if there is a way to do this?

Thanks for your help.

Kevin


On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 8:56 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com>wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 17:19:56 -0400, Kevin Holleran <kdawg44 at gmail.com>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > Thanks!  I think this is getting me on the right track.  Now when I
> attempt
> > to start the RemoteRegistry service I am getting an exception "The RPC
> > server is unavailable."  However, I am done with this for today so back
> at
> > it on Monday.
> >
>
>         Apparently you are under a VERY locked down network...
>
>         RPC is another service you may have to start -- problem: you can't
> start it from a remote connection as the remote connection needs to use
> RPC <G>. It may be faster to just telnet to each machine, logging in as
> admin, and then piping the shell commands to do the changes to the
> telnet session...
> --
>         Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
>         wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Mon Oct 22 11:05:16 2012
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 16:05:16 +0100
Subject: Is there a way to programmatically turn on remote registry?
In-Reply-To: <CAN4UfGzz81jvkzMByhQ3MAjpdFT_eNy9oRfcwa2j_PGFpoTePw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN4UfGy6dkdtKiQ+ghh7=CirS9Lca8DOrHvEiKRefgWUSwVFDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671F47B@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
	<CAN4UfGx1JEzaTm_hKLH8Mf1N9qCB_d9qtNUTupFCkctUGaB2wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<c1t3881ofvciftl2pjpkkm4cfjeacvftkj@invalid.netcom.com>
	<CAN4UfGzz81jvkzMByhQ3MAjpdFT_eNy9oRfcwa2j_PGFpoTePw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508560AC.2080307@timgolden.me.uk>

On 22/10/2012 15:51, Kevin Holleran wrote:
> Back at it this morning.  The RPC was due to needing to run it under
> another account (or so I think now...). However, the RemoteRegistry
> service is not just STOPPED but DISABLED.
> 
> I am trying to see if there is a call to actually set the state to
> MANUAL.  Then I can star the registry, grab what I need, stop the
> service, then set it back to disabled....
> 
> Does anyone know if there is a way to do this?  

Can you connect to the remote machine via WMI? (If the remote registry
service is stopped, WMI might be also). If so, you can access the
registry remotely via WMI:


  http://timgolden.me.uk/python/wmi/cookbook.html#list-registry-keys

Ultimately, you need *something* on the remote machine to be running
which will accept incoming requests. If nothing is (because the machine
& network are secured) then you're not going to be able to do what you want.

TJG


From kdawg44 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 22 11:38:37 2012
From: kdawg44 at gmail.com (Kevin Holleran)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:38:37 -0400
Subject: Is there a way to programmatically turn on remote registry?
In-Reply-To: <508560AC.2080307@timgolden.me.uk>
References: <CAN4UfGy6dkdtKiQ+ghh7=CirS9Lca8DOrHvEiKRefgWUSwVFDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671F47B@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
	<CAN4UfGx1JEzaTm_hKLH8Mf1N9qCB_d9qtNUTupFCkctUGaB2wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<c1t3881ofvciftl2pjpkkm4cfjeacvftkj@invalid.netcom.com>
	<CAN4UfGzz81jvkzMByhQ3MAjpdFT_eNy9oRfcwa2j_PGFpoTePw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508560AC.2080307@timgolden.me.uk>
Message-ID: <CAN4UfGxLZXuR8VdzpunASfqudJVyp=Zds36evud-3cAy9cD2xw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, I will look into that.  WMI is enabled, but everything WMI query I
wrote (& I am NOT a WMI expert.... or even close) gave me a bunch of NIC
info, but not the info I am after in the registry (driver description,
driver date, driver version for the NICs).

Thanks for your help.

Kevin


On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:05 AM, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:

> On 22/10/2012 15:51, Kevin Holleran wrote:
> > Back at it this morning.  The RPC was due to needing to run it under
> > another account (or so I think now...). However, the RemoteRegistry
> > service is not just STOPPED but DISABLED.
> >
> > I am trying to see if there is a call to actually set the state to
> > MANUAL.  Then I can star the registry, grab what I need, stop the
> > service, then set it back to disabled....
> >
> > Does anyone know if there is a way to do this?
>
> Can you connect to the remote machine via WMI? (If the remote registry
> service is stopped, WMI might be also). If so, you can access the
> registry remotely via WMI:
>
>
>   http://timgolden.me.uk/python/wmi/cookbook.html#list-registry-keys
>
> Ultimately, you need *something* on the remote machine to be running
> which will accept incoming requests. If nothing is (because the machine
> & network are secured) then you're not going to be able to do what you
> want.
>
> TJG
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From xs.nepaul at gmail.com  Mon Oct 22 12:01:11 2012
From: xs.nepaul at gmail.com (nepaul)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:01:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?some_godd_python_blog=EF=BC=9F?=
Message-ID: <6cb39036-897f-4664-aeba-ed4d25606ae5@googlegroups.com>



From mal at egenix.com  Mon Oct 22 12:16:19 2012
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:16:19 +0200
Subject: ANN: Central Python Events Calendar
Message-ID: <50857153.4020504@egenix.com>

[Please help spread the word by forwarding to other relevant mailing lists,
 user groups, etc. world-wide; thanks]

________________________________________________________________________
ANNOUNCING

                     Central Python Events Calendars

              maintained by the Python Software Foundation (PSF)
                       and a group of volunteers

________________________________________________________________________
INTRODUCTION

The PSF has put together a team of volunteers who are maintaining a
central Python events calendar. We currently have two calendars
in place:

 * Python Events Calendar - meant for conferences and larger gatherings
   focusing on Python or a related technology (in whole or in part)

 * Python User Group Calendar - meant for user group events and other
   smaller local events

The calendars are displayed on http://pycon.org/ and in a smaller
version in the sidebar of the http://python.org/ website (at the moment
only the main events calendar is shown there).

________________________________________________________________________
ADDING EVENTS

If you want to have entries added to those calendars, please write
to events at pycon.org and include the following information:

 * Name of the event
 * Type of the event (conference, bar camp, user group, etc)
 * Focus on Python
 * URL
 * Location and country
 * Date and time (if relevant)

For recurring events, please also include a description of the
recurrence in a way that's compatible and supported by Google
calendars.

________________________________________________________________________
MORE INFORMATION

More information on the calendars, the URLs, feed links, IDs, embedding,
etc. is available on the wiki:

    http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEventsCalendar

Enjoy,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Oct 22 2012)
>>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ...   http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ...       http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________
2012-09-27: Released eGenix PyRun 1.1.0 ...       http://egenix.com/go35
2012-09-26: Released mxODBC.Connect 2.0.1 ...     http://egenix.com/go34
2012-09-25: Released mxODBC 3.2.1 ...             http://egenix.com/go33
2012-10-23: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ...                      tomorrow

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Mon Oct 22 12:19:35 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:19:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: get each pair from a string.
References: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2594.1350845107.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1a8e1d4b-dddc-48c6-aec8-8041bb559a30@u4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>

On 10/21/2012 11:33 AM, Vincent Davis wrote:

> I am looking for a good way to get every pair from a string. For example,
> input:
> x = 'apple'
> output
> 'ap'
> 'pp'
> 'pl'
> 'le'

Maybe zip before izip for a noob?

>>> s="apple"
>>> [a+b for a,b in zip(s, s[1:])]
['ap', 'pp', 'pl', 'le']
>>>


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Oct 22 12:44:10 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 17:44:10 +0100
Subject: some godd python =?UTF-8?B?YmxvZ++8nw==?=
In-Reply-To: <6cb39036-897f-4664-aeba-ed4d25606ae5@googlegroups.com>
References: <6cb39036-897f-4664-aeba-ed4d25606ae5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k63t08$u4n$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 22/10/2012 17:01, nepaul wrote:
>

Try using a search engine for specific Python issues that you'd like to 
read up on.  If you can't find what you want please ask a specific 
question, that way you're far more likely to get some answers.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Mon Oct 22 13:19:28 2012
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:19:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ANN: Central Python Events Calendar
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2628.1350922582.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2628.1350922582.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <24d4de3e-41ff-47f5-8acf-a93b3ea804e6@googlegroups.com>

> ANNOUNCING
>                      Central Python Events Calendars
Thanks, a great idea.


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Mon Oct 22 13:19:28 2012
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:19:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ANN: Central Python Events Calendar
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2628.1350922582.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2628.1350922582.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <24d4de3e-41ff-47f5-8acf-a93b3ea804e6@googlegroups.com>

> ANNOUNCING
>                      Central Python Events Calendars
Thanks, a great idea.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Oct 22 14:03:05 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 19:03:05 +0100
Subject: Compiling extension module (linker error)
In-Reply-To: <CAK38ikTsrBj_GsC35uedk0PWaFGGXek+VFT=AfUqqC9-PfFr6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK38ikTsrBj_GsC35uedk0PWaFGGXek+VFT=AfUqqC9-PfFr6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50858A59.5070307@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-22 11:55, Paul Volkov wrote:
> I am trying to compile an extension module with C++ Builder 6 for Python 3.3.
> I converted python33.lib using coff2omf.exe and added this library
> into my project.
> I wonder why I get this error message while building:
>
> [Linker Error] Unresolved external '_PyModule_Create2TraceRefs'
> referenced from 'D:\WORK\FROMAGE\OUT\ROSE_UNIT.OBJ'
>
> My source file:
>
> //---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> #include <Python.h>
> #include <windows.h>
> #pragma argsused
>
It's a Python module with its own initialiser, so you don't need this:

> BOOL WINAPI DllMain(HINSTANCE hinstDLL, DWORD fwdreason, LPVOID lpvReserved)
> {
>          return 1;
> }
>
You don't need to export this function because it's listed in the
module's function table:

> static PyObject* __declspec(dllexport) testik(PyObject* self, PyObject* args)
> {

Returning NULL says that an exception was raised. You should set the
exception.

> return NULL;
> }
>
> static PyMethodDef FundRoseMethods[] = {
> {"testik", testik, METH_VARARGS, "perform a test"},
> {NULL, NULL, 0, NULL}
> };
>
> static struct PyModuleDef FundRoseModule = {
> PyModuleDef_HEAD_INIT,
> "FundRose",
> NULL,
> -1,
> FundRoseMethods
> };
>
> PyMODINIT_FUNC
> PyInit_FundRose(void)
> {
> return PyModule_Create(&FundRoseModule);
> }
>
> //---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
By the way, the recommendation is for module names to be lowercase with
underscores, so "fund_rose" instead of "FundRose".

Try this code:

#include <Python.h>
#include <windows.h>
#pragma argsused

static PyObject* testik(PyObject* self, PyObject* args)
{
     PyErr_SetString(PyExc_RuntimeError, "testik exception");
     return NULL;
}

static PyMethodDef FundRoseMethods[] = {
     {"testik", testik, METH_VARARGS, "perform a test"},
     {NULL, NULL, 0, NULL}
};

static struct PyModuleDef FundRoseModule = {
     PyModuleDef_HEAD_INIT,
     "FundRose",
     NULL,
     -1,
     FundRoseMethods
};

PyMODINIT_FUNC PyInit_FundRose(void) {
     return PyModule_Create(&FundRoseModule);
}



From dnogues_mc at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 22 14:17:03 2012
From: dnogues_mc at hotmail.com (Daniel Nogues)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 19:17:03 +0100
Subject: get each pair from a string.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.10190.1350926403.27097.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.10190.1350926403.27097.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP196A39BBF1608B5A6088E5EFF7A0@phx.gbl>

Hello rusi

This is a little bit faster:

s = "apple"
[s[i:i+2] for i in range(len(s)-1)]


 >>> timeit("""s = "apple"
... [a+b for a,b in zip(s, s[1:])]""",number=10000)
0.061038970947265625

 >>> timeit("""s = "apple"
... [s[i:i+2] for i in range(len(s)-1)]""",number=10000)
0.0467379093170166

Regards

> From: rusi <rustompmody at gmail.com>
> Date: 22 October 2012 17:19:35 IST
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: get each pair from a string.
>
>
> On 10/21/2012 11:33 AM, Vincent Davis wrote:
>
>> I am looking for a good way to get every pair from a string. For  
>> example,
>> input:
>> x = 'apple'
>> output
>> 'ap'
>> 'pp'
>> 'pl'
>> 'le'
>
> Maybe zip before izip for a noob?
>
>>>> s="apple"
>>>> [a+b for a,b in zip(s, s[1:])]
> ['ap', 'pp', 'pl', 'le']
>>>>
>
>
>
>

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From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Mon Oct 22 15:29:42 2012
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 20:29:42 +0100
Subject: Is there a way to programmatically turn on remote registry?
In-Reply-To: <CAN4UfGxLZXuR8VdzpunASfqudJVyp=Zds36evud-3cAy9cD2xw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN4UfGy6dkdtKiQ+ghh7=CirS9Lca8DOrHvEiKRefgWUSwVFDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671F47B@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
	<CAN4UfGx1JEzaTm_hKLH8Mf1N9qCB_d9qtNUTupFCkctUGaB2wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<c1t3881ofvciftl2pjpkkm4cfjeacvftkj@invalid.netcom.com>
	<CAN4UfGzz81jvkzMByhQ3MAjpdFT_eNy9oRfcwa2j_PGFpoTePw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508560AC.2080307@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGxLZXuR8VdzpunASfqudJVyp=Zds36evud-3cAy9cD2xw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50859EA6.7020602@timgolden.me.uk>

On 22/10/2012 16:38, Kevin Holleran wrote:
> Thanks, I will look into that.  WMI is enabled, but everything WMI query I
> wrote (& I am NOT a WMI expert.... or even close) gave me a bunch of NIC
> info, but not the info I am after in the registry (driver description,
> driver date, driver version for the NICs).

I assume you've found things like the Win32_NetworkAdapter which doesn't 
include driver details. If you cared to come across with the registry 
keys / values you needed I'm sure I could rustle up a sample query to 
get you on the right path.

TJG



From jason.swails at gmail.com  Mon Oct 22 15:36:51 2012
From: jason.swails at gmail.com (Jason Swails)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 15:36:51 -0400
Subject: Tkinter Create/Destory Button
In-Reply-To: <823f8434-f5f2-475c-aada-d02ab62a117f@googlegroups.com>
References: <823f8434-f5f2-475c-aada-d02ab62a117f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAEk9e3pHyjFwRu3ct3Ued-fqm1sUcUynnS1grbb14NjXw=5b6Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 4:11 PM, <bbbenrothschild at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am trying to create a button in Tkinter and then when it is pressed
> delete it/have it disappear. Does anyone know the simplest script to do
> that with. Thanks for your help.
>

Note that there is a _big_ difference between having a button 'disappear'
and having it destroyed or deleted.  If it 'disappears', it still exists
and can be re-activated whenever you want (as long as you keep an active
reference to it).  Once you destroy the widget, there is no recovering it.

My suggestion is to provide some code that you've tried, and allow people
to help explain why it did not work the way you thought it would.

And take a look at http://effbot.org/tkinterbook/tkinter-index.htm -- it
has proven to be a helpful reference to me.  The actual code to do what you
want is not complex (it took me ~20 lines), but learning how to do it is
quite helpful.

Good luck,
Jason
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From kdawg44 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 22 16:01:33 2012
From: kdawg44 at gmail.com (Kevin Holleran)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 16:01:33 -0400
Subject: Is there a way to programmatically turn on remote registry?
In-Reply-To: <50859EA6.7020602@timgolden.me.uk>
References: <CAN4UfGy6dkdtKiQ+ghh7=CirS9Lca8DOrHvEiKRefgWUSwVFDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671F47B@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
	<CAN4UfGx1JEzaTm_hKLH8Mf1N9qCB_d9qtNUTupFCkctUGaB2wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<c1t3881ofvciftl2pjpkkm4cfjeacvftkj@invalid.netcom.com>
	<CAN4UfGzz81jvkzMByhQ3MAjpdFT_eNy9oRfcwa2j_PGFpoTePw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508560AC.2080307@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGxLZXuR8VdzpunASfqudJVyp=Zds36evud-3cAy9cD2xw@mail.gmail.com>
	<50859EA6.7020602@timgolden.me.uk>
Message-ID: <CAN4UfGynWcuq1nW=_9OKfOki-7hENCF6SRN5BtN60wyxFt0U6w@mail.gmail.com>

Tim,

I am looking here:

SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\{BF9F6FB0-C999-4D19-BED0-144F77E2A9D6}

Enumerating the keys for a BusType == 5, then grabbing the values of
DriverDesc, DriverDate, & DriverVersion.

So I am doing this:

 try:
            hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath,
r"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\{BF9F6FB0-C999-4D19-BED0-144F77E2A9D6}",
0, _winreg.KEY_READ)
            i=0
            while True:
                try:
                    subkey = _winreg.EnumKey(hKey, i)
                    i += 1
                    if (subkey.QueryValueEx(hKey,"BusType") == "5"):
                        outputline = host + "," +
subkey.QueryValueEx(hKey,"DriverDesc") + "," +
subkey.QueryValueEx(hKey,"DriverDate") + "," +
subkey.QueryValueEx(hKey,"DriverVersion") + "\n"
                        print outputline
                        outputFile.write(outputLine)
                except WindowsError, e:
                    # WindowsError: [Errno 259] No more data is available

                    pass
        except:
            print "Unable to query registry key for NIC adapters"

Thanks.  I am reviewing the WMI Registry piece you sent over right now.  I
am certainly open to anyway I can get the info.  I have some odd behaviors
across some servers during vulnerability scanning & have a suspicion that
some driver discrepancies on the NIC are to blame.

Kevin


On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 3:29 PM, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:

> On 22/10/2012 16:38, Kevin Holleran wrote:
>
>> Thanks, I will look into that.  WMI is enabled, but everything WMI query I
>> wrote (& I am NOT a WMI expert.... or even close) gave me a bunch of NIC
>> info, but not the info I am after in the registry (driver description,
>> driver date, driver version for the NICs).
>>
>
> I assume you've found things like the Win32_NetworkAdapter which doesn't
> include driver details. If you cared to come across with the registry keys
> / values you needed I'm sure I could rustle up a sample query to get you on
> the right path.
>
> TJG
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-list<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>
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From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Mon Oct 22 16:48:18 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 20:48:18 +0000
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <roy-AD7EA5.08290722102012@news.panix.com>
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2543.1350692652.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<5083ad3e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2582.1350811250.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5083c7da$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2588.1350819797.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508448c6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2601.1350850942.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5084e819$0$29897$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<roy-AD7EA5.08290722102012@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF47416725299@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Roy Smith wrote:
> Pet peeve of the day...
> 
> Why do you have to write:
> 
> global foo
> foo = 4
> 
> when
> 
> global foo = 4
> 
> would have been so much easier?

To make it more annoying for people who use globals, duh. :)

Ramit Prasad

This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From joe_h_d at pacbell.net  Mon Oct 22 17:31:10 2012
From: joe_h_d at pacbell.net (Joe Davis)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 14:31:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Compiler Error for build Python -3.3.0   (Suggestions)
Message-ID: <f7a93250-5291-4254-abb0-1dd7c27ad6e7@rj6g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>


   The version of Python I have on my old Solaris boxes is old and
isn't supported and dosn't have all the modules that I need.    I have
downloaded the new 3.3 version and have been trying to compile it and
have no luck:

After running the ./configure command I run "make" and it gives me the
following error.    Does anyone know what is wrong here or what to do
about this?

Is there a location I can download a binary package of this?
Sunfreeware looks to be out of business.

Thanks

gcc -c -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g  -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-
prototypes    -I. -I./Include    -DPy_BUILD_CORE -o Python/pythonrun.o
Python/pythonrun.c
Python/pythonrun.c: In function `PyOS_getsig':
Python/pythonrun.c:2545: storage size of `context' isn't known
Python/pythonrun.c:2546: warning: implicit declaration of function
`sigaction'
Python/pythonrun.c:2547: `SIG_ERR' undeclared (first use in this
function)
Python/pythonrun.c:2547: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only
once
Python/pythonrun.c:2547: for each function it appears in.)
Python/pythonrun.c:2545: warning: unused variable `context'
Python/pythonrun.c: In function `PyOS_setsig':
Python/pythonrun.c:2588: storage size of `context' isn't known
Python/pythonrun.c:2588: storage size of `ocontext' isn't known
Python/pythonrun.c:2590: warning: implicit declaration of function
`sigemptyset'
Python/pythonrun.c:2593: `SIG_ERR' undeclared (first use in this
function)
Python/pythonrun.c:2588: warning: unused variable `context'
Python/pythonrun.c:2588: warning: unused variable `ocontext'
make: *** [Python/pythonrun.o] Error 1


From darnold992000 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 22 17:35:23 2012
From: darnold992000 at yahoo.com (darnold)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 14:35:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SQLAlchemy: How to do Table Reflection and MySQL?
References: <20121020192416.000023b6@unknown>
Message-ID: <26471ad3-2bcd-46ed-a697-ae768eb5fd3b@m4g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 20, 6:24?pm, Nick Sabalausky
<SeeWebsiteToContac... at semitwist.com> wrote:
> Hi, I'm fairly new to Python, and I'm trying to figure out how to use
> SQLAlchemy to connect to a MySQL DB and use table reflection to set up
> SQLAlchemy's tables. But the ?SQLAlchemy documentation is gigantic and
> frankly kinda making my head spin, so I'm having trouble even finding
> any information on how to use its table reflection, mostly just that it
> exists and *can* be done, but not so much "how". My web searching has
> just been turning up examples of SQLite and manually describing the
> tables in Python and having SQLAlchemy create the tables, which isn't
> what I'm looking for.
>
> Is there a simple way to do this somehow? To just connect to a MySQL DB
> and use table reflection?

i'm not brave enough to dig too deeply into SQLAlchemy, but maybe this
will help? :

http://kashififtikhar.blogspot.com/2010/07/using-sqlalchemy-reflection-with-pylons.html

that came up from googling "sqlalchemy table reflection tutorial".


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Oct 22 17:59:05 2012
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:59:05 +1100
Subject: Preventing crap email from google?
References: <k5srto$aqr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2550.1350704129.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5uc04$p6b$2@reader1.panix.com>
	<mailman.2616.1350874312.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k63gao$ge8$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <7wy5iyi2xi.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Walter Hurry <walterhurry at lavabit.com> writes:

> On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 13:51:35 +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
>
> > Walter Hurry <walterhurry at lavabit.com> writes:
> >> It is Google bloody Groups which is the problem. I should have
> >> plonked posts from there ages ago, and am about to remedy that
> >> omission.
> > 
> > What narrowly-defined, precise filter rule should be used for this
> > purpose?
>
> Depends on how you read the list, I think. In my case, via Usenet
> (comp.lang.python) with Pan, so I shall filter on "googlegroups.com"
> in the Message-ID.

The Message-ID field seems to be preserved in both directions, so I'll
use that. Thank you.

-- 
 \         ?I call him Governor Bush because that's the only political |
  `\              office he's ever held legally.? ?George Carlin, 2008 |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Oct 22 18:02:34 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 16:02:34 -0600
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmphN0LEK9j+gMizZFtkcyB5S9LSdSZgQSmbxG4C1cXnsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2501.1350638446.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5081d0c3$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2543.1350692652.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k5ubs7$p6b$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<5083ad3e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2582.1350811250.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5083c7da$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2588.1350819797.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508448c6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2601.1350850942.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5084e819$0$29897$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmphN0LEK9j+gMizZFtkcyB5S9LSdSZgQSmbxG4C1cXnsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmRVReAS2r18rNyn9JNfZyo_8Q3JNnBoXpaOs2bgZ8Qkw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 1:03 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> Python's system "just works" most of
> the time, but can introduce yet another trap for the unsuspecting
> newbie who doesn't understand the difference between rebinding and
> mutating; I've not looked into multiple levels of closures but I
> suspect there'll be odd limitations there, as there's only one
> "nonlocal" keyword.

On my wishlist for Python is a big, fat SyntaxError for any variable
that could be interpreted as either local or nonlocal and is not
explicitly declared as either.  It would eliminate this sort of
confusion entirely and make code that shadows nonlocal variables much
more readable.

Ideally, the same thing would also be done for locals that shadow
globals, but I don't see how that could possibly be enforced at
compile time.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Oct 22 18:09:13 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 23:09:13 +0100
Subject: Compiler Error for build Python -3.3.0   (Suggestions)
In-Reply-To: <f7a93250-5291-4254-abb0-1dd7c27ad6e7@rj6g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
References: <f7a93250-5291-4254-abb0-1dd7c27ad6e7@rj6g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5085C409.1030002@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-22 22:31, Joe Davis wrote:
>
>     The version of Python I have on my old Solaris boxes is old and
> isn't supported and dosn't have all the modules that I need.    I have
> downloaded the new 3.3 version and have been trying to compile it and
> have no luck:
>
> After running the ./configure command I run "make" and it gives me the
> following error.    Does anyone know what is wrong here or what to do
> about this?
>
> Is there a location I can download a binary package of this?
> Sunfreeware looks to be out of business.
>
> Thanks
>
> gcc -c -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g  -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-
> prototypes    -I. -I./Include    -DPy_BUILD_CORE -o Python/pythonrun.o
> Python/pythonrun.c
> Python/pythonrun.c: In function `PyOS_getsig':
> Python/pythonrun.c:2545: storage size of `context' isn't known
> Python/pythonrun.c:2546: warning: implicit declaration of function
> `sigaction'
> Python/pythonrun.c:2547: `SIG_ERR' undeclared (first use in this
> function)
> Python/pythonrun.c:2547: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only
> once
> Python/pythonrun.c:2547: for each function it appears in.)
> Python/pythonrun.c:2545: warning: unused variable `context'
> Python/pythonrun.c: In function `PyOS_setsig':
> Python/pythonrun.c:2588: storage size of `context' isn't known
> Python/pythonrun.c:2588: storage size of `ocontext' isn't known
> Python/pythonrun.c:2590: warning: implicit declaration of function
> `sigemptyset'
> Python/pythonrun.c:2593: `SIG_ERR' undeclared (first use in this
> function)
> Python/pythonrun.c:2588: warning: unused variable `context'
> Python/pythonrun.c:2588: warning: unused variable `ocontext'
> make: *** [Python/pythonrun.o] Error 1
>
It looks like HAVE_SIGACTION is 1, which says that 'sigaction' is
defined, but it's not defined. Try going to where HAVE_SIGACTION is set
and change it to 0.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Oct 22 18:58:49 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 23:58:49 +0100
Subject: Python 3.3 can't sort memoryviews as they're unorderable
In-Reply-To: <k60lsp$jok$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <k60lsp$jok$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <k64it8$vq7$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 21/10/2012 12:24, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> http://docs.python.org/dev/whatsnew/3.3.html states "memoryview
> comparisons now use the logical structure of the operands and compare
> all array elements by value".  So I'd have thought that you should be
> able to compare them and hence sort them, but this is the state of play.
>
> Python 3.3.0 (v3.3.0:bd8afb90ebf2, Sep 29 2012, 10:55:48) [MSC v.1600 32
> bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>  >>> memoryview(bytearray(range(5))) == memoryview(bytearray(range(5)))
> True
>  >>> memoryview(bytearray(range(5))) != memoryview(bytearray(range(5)))
> False
>  >>> memoryview(bytearray(range(5))) < memoryview(bytearray(range(5)))
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> TypeError: unorderable types: memoryview() < memoryview()
>
> Okay then, let's subclass memoryview to provide the functionality.
>
>  >>> class Test(memoryview):
> ...     pass
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> TypeError: type 'memoryview' is not an acceptable base type
>
> Oh dear.
> http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/stdtypes.html#typememoryview only
> gives examples of equality comparisons and there was nothing that I
> could see in PEP3118 to explain the rationale behind the lack of other
> comparisons.  What have I missed?
>

Anybody?

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Oct 22 19:20:27 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 17:20:27 -0600
Subject: Python 3.3 can't sort memoryviews as they're unorderable
In-Reply-To: <k64it8$vq7$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <k60lsp$jok$1@ger.gmane.org> <k64it8$vq7$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=H8zvKEU6BwML7ZUkADORJuvAfA4amjHvSMaZjQ62Uig@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/stdtypes.html#typememoryview only
>> gives examples of equality comparisons and there was nothing that I
>> could see in PEP3118 to explain the rationale behind the lack of other
>> comparisons.  What have I missed?
>>
>
> Anybody?

As best I can tell from googling, it has never been discussed.


From christian at python.org  Mon Oct 22 20:09:34 2012
From: christian at python.org (Christian Heimes)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 02:09:34 +0200
Subject: Compiler Error for build Python -3.3.0   (Suggestions)
In-Reply-To: <f7a93250-5291-4254-abb0-1dd7c27ad6e7@rj6g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
References: <f7a93250-5291-4254-abb0-1dd7c27ad6e7@rj6g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5085E03E.1060108@python.org>

Am 22.10.2012 23:31, schrieb Joe Davis:
>    The version of Python I have on my old Solaris boxes is old and
> isn't supported and dosn't have all the modules that I need.    I have
> downloaded the new 3.3 version and have been trying to compile it and
> have no luck:
> 
> After running the ./configure command I run "make" and it gives me the
> following error.    Does anyone know what is wrong here or what to do
> about this?
> 
> Is there a location I can download a binary package of this?
> Sunfreeware looks to be out of business.

Hello Joe,

Can you tell us more about the Solaris box? I'm especially interested in
the Solaris version, architecture (sparc or X86_64) and your C compiler.
We have Python up and running on a Solaris 10 box (sparc) and a Solaris
11 box (X86_64) with Sun CC and GCC 4.6.

You could try to recompile Python with the Sun CC:

 $ make distclean
 $ ./configure --without-gcc --config-cache
 $ make

Christian


From travisgriggs at gmail.com  Mon Oct 22 20:43:00 2012
From: travisgriggs at gmail.com (Travis Griggs)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 17:43:00 -0700
Subject: Style help for a Smalltalk-hack
Message-ID: <168DF25C-0C43-45F2-BEDC-17AC4210F207@gmail.com>

I'm writing some code that does a structured read from formatted binary file. The code I came up with looks like:

# get the first four bytes, the first gap field
chunk = byteStream.read(4)
while chunk:
    # interpret the gap bytes
    gap, = struct.unpack('>I', chunk)
    # suck off the valveCount
    valveCount, = struct.unpack('>I', byteStream.read(4))
    # collect the next valveCount signatures
    signatures = [struct.unpack('>I', byteStream.read(4))[0] for _ in range(valveCount)]
    self.script.append(ScriptSpan(gap=gap, valveSet=signatures))
    # now get the next 4 bytes for the gap of the next iteration, it'll be empty if we're at end
    chunk = byteStream.read(4)

I can't help but thinking that there's some better way (i.e. more pythonic) to do this that doesn't involve having to use another module (Construct) or exploring generators or something like that. What bugs me about it is that there is two different styles for reading/decoding values from the byte stream. valveCount and signatures are both paired invocations of unpack() and read(). But to detect the end of the stream (file), I have to split the read() and unpack() of the gap value across 3 different lines of the code, and they don't even sit adjacent to each other.

I'm wandering up the Python curve with a passel of Smalltalk experience under my belt, so I expect I'm struggling with trying to map something like this across to python

[byteStream atEnd] whileFalse: [
     gap := (byteStream next: 4) asInteger.
     valveCount := (byteStream next: 4) asInteger.
     signatures := (1 to: valveCount) collect: [:_ | (byteStream next: 4) asInteger].
     self script add: (ScriptSpan gap: gap valveSet: signatures).
]

The part that doesn't seem to be there in the standard python library is the idea of an atEnd message for streams, it's inferred as a byproduct of a read().

Please be gentle/kind. I'm still learning. :) TIA

--
Travis Griggs
"A vital ingredient of success is not knowing that what you're attempting can't be done." -Terry Pratchett



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Oct 22 21:33:14 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 02:33:14 +0100
Subject: Style help for a Smalltalk-hack
In-Reply-To: <168DF25C-0C43-45F2-BEDC-17AC4210F207@gmail.com>
References: <168DF25C-0C43-45F2-BEDC-17AC4210F207@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5085F3DA.1010809@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-23 01:43, Travis Griggs wrote:
> I'm writing some code that does a structured read from formatted binary file. The code I came up with looks like:
>
> # get the first four bytes, the first gap field
> chunk = byteStream.read(4)
> while chunk:
>      # interpret the gap bytes
>      gap, = struct.unpack('>I', chunk)
>      # suck off the valveCount
>      valveCount, = struct.unpack('>I', byteStream.read(4))
>      # collect the next valveCount signatures
>      signatures = [struct.unpack('>I', byteStream.read(4))[0] for _ in range(valveCount)]
>      self.script.append(ScriptSpan(gap=gap, valveSet=signatures))
>      # now get the next 4 bytes for the gap of the next iteration, it'll be empty if we're at end
>      chunk = byteStream.read(4)
>
> I can't help but thinking that there's some better way (i.e. more pythonic) to do this that doesn't involve having to use another module (Construct) or exploring generators or something like that. What bugs me about it is that there is two different styles for reading/decoding values from the byte stream. valveCount and signatures are both paired invocations of unpack() and read(). But to detect the end of the stream (file), I have to split the read() and unpack() of the gap value across 3 different lines of the code, and they don't even sit adjacent to each other.
>
> I'm wandering up the Python curve with a passel of Smalltalk experience under my belt, so I expect I'm struggling with trying to map something like this across to python
>
> [byteStream atEnd] whileFalse: [
>       gap := (byteStream next: 4) asInteger.
>       valveCount := (byteStream next: 4) asInteger.
>       signatures := (1 to: valveCount) collect: [:_ | (byteStream next: 4) asInteger].
>       self script add: (ScriptSpan gap: gap valveSet: signatures).
> ]
>
> The part that doesn't seem to be there in the standard python library is the idea of an atEnd message for streams, it's inferred as a byproduct of a read().
>
> Please be gentle/kind. I'm still learning. :) TIA
>
Another way you could do it is:

while True:
     chunk = byteStream.read(4)
     if not chunk:
         break
     ...

And you could fetch multiple signatures in one read:

signatures = list(struct.unpack('>{}I'.format(valveCount), 
byteStream.read(4 * valueCount)))

By the way, in Python the recommended style for variable names (well,
what you'd call a 'variable' in other languages :-)) is lowercase with
underscores, e.g. "byte_stream".



From emile at fenx.com  Mon Oct 22 21:46:56 2012
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:46:56 -0700
Subject: get each pair from a string.
In-Reply-To: <5084C953.1010209@feete.org>
References: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<k61fr6$s5m$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CALyJZZUui_Z_M6toRRiRmAhsGscCj_O0POw9Cb8Z8jOqW5O50g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=4WxNw7+q4GWcULSNYxFinJkpbpc_u8s97bf8RUjty7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<k61kd7$ka$1@ger.gmane.org> <5084C953.1010209@feete.org>
Message-ID: <k63in6$o4k$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/21/2012 9:19 PM, Ian Foote wrote:
> On 22/10/12 09:03, Emile van Sebille wrote:
>> So, as OP's a self confessed newbie asking about slicing, why provide an
>> example requiring knowledge of tee, enumerate, next and izip?
>>
>
> Because not only the newbie will read the thread? I for one was
> interested to see all the different possible approaches, and their
> upsides and downsides.

Fair -- I get concerned that newcomers are faced with a much higher cost 
of entry when answers to their apparently simple problems require 
knowledge of specific functions in specific library modules to solve.

This presents a very high bar as my quick local test (help(); modules) 
shows 398 modules!

In this case the only requirement should have been a quick pass through 
the tutorial which should be enough to solve most problems.

Emile






From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 00:59:49 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 21:59:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: get each pair from a string.
References: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2594.1350845107.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1a8e1d4b-dddc-48c6-aec8-8041bb559a30@u4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <177aa300-9863-44f3-94da-7bc11bff2eda@i7g2000pbf.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 22, 9:19?pm, rusi <rustompm... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/21/2012 11:33 AM, Vincent Davis wrote:
>
> > I am looking for a good way to get every pair from a string. For example,
> > input:
> > x = 'apple'
> > output
> > 'ap'
> > 'pp'
> > 'pl'
> > 'le'
>
> Maybe zip before izip for a noob?
>
> >>> s="apple"
> >>> [a+b for a,b in zip(s, s[1:])]
>
> ['ap', 'pp', 'pl', 'le']

Daniel wrote:
> This is a little bit faster:
>
> s = "apple"
> [s[i:i+2] for i in range(len(s)-1)]

Nice! I always find pairs of structural decomposition of input vs
recomposition of output interesting.
In this case the use of slices:
to decompose: s -> s[1:]
vs doing s[i:i+2]


From wxjmfauth at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 02:47:49 2012
From: wxjmfauth at gmail.com (wxjmfauth at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 23:47:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: get each pair from a string.
In-Reply-To: <177aa300-9863-44f3-94da-7bc11bff2eda@i7g2000pbf.googlegroups.com>
References: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2594.1350845107.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1a8e1d4b-dddc-48c6-aec8-8041bb559a30@u4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
	<177aa300-9863-44f3-94da-7bc11bff2eda@i7g2000pbf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7fdadf96-2ec2-43c7-a5e2-74228c06faca@googlegroups.com>

Le mardi 23 octobre 2012 06:59:49 UTC+2, rusi a ?crit?:
> On Oct 22, 9:19?pm, rusi <rustompm... at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 10/21/2012 11:33 AM, Vincent Davis wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> > > I am looking for a good way to get every pair from a string. For example,
> 
> > > input:
> 
> > > x = 'apple'
> 
> > > output
> 
> > > 'ap'
> 
> > > 'pp'
> 
> > > 'pl'
> 
> > > 'le'
> 
> >
> 
> > Maybe zip before izip for a noob?
> 
> >
> 
> > >>> s="apple"
> 
> > >>> [a+b for a,b in zip(s, s[1:])]
> 
> >
> 
> > ['ap', 'pp', 'pl', 'le']
> 
> 
> 
> Daniel wrote:
> 
> > This is a little bit faster:
> 
> >
> 
> > s = "apple"
> 
> > [s[i:i+2] for i in range(len(s)-1)]
> 
> 
> 
> Nice! I always find pairs of structural decomposition of input vs
> 
> recomposition of output interesting.
> 
> In this case the use of slices:
> 
> to decompose: s -> s[1:]
> 
> vs doing s[i:i+2]

Why bother with speeed?

The latest Python version is systematically slower
than the previous ones as soon as one uses non "ascii
strings".

Python users are discussing "code optimizations" without
realizing the tool they are using, has killed itself its
own performances.

(Replace 'apple' with 'ap???')

jmf


From capt-obvious at yandex.ru  Tue Oct 23 03:00:09 2012
From: capt-obvious at yandex.ru (Paul Volkov)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 11:00:09 +0400
Subject: Compiling extension module (linker error)
In-Reply-To: <50858A59.5070307@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <CAK38ikTsrBj_GsC35uedk0PWaFGGXek+VFT=AfUqqC9-PfFr6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<50858A59.5070307@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <CAK38ikT4rx79TC2QQF7pvVnwHDiHpCN_Y0RCt4k+drf_VxNsXg@mail.gmail.com>

2012/10/22 MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com>:
> By the way, the recommendation is for module names to be lowercase with
> underscores, so "fund_rose" instead of "FundRose".
>
> Try this code:
>

I tried as you suggested, but the linker error (unresolved external)
is still there.
I'm sure python33.lib is properly added because if I remove it, there
are 3 errors, not 1.
By the way, what is the difference between python3.lib and python33.lib?


From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 03:35:56 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:35:56 +0100
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <v4tb88pgp5k1me6p8841qtk7h1g31vm90j@invalid.netcom.com>
References: <mailman.2582.1350811250.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5083c7da$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2588.1350819797.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508448c6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2601.1350850942.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5084e819$0$29897$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmphN0LEK9j+gMizZFtkcyB5S9LSdSZgQSmbxG4C1cXnsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidmRVReAS2r18rNyn9JNfZyo_8Q3JNnBoXpaOs2bgZ8Qkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<v4tb88pgp5k1me6p8841qtk7h1g31vm90j@invalid.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qUDpX7tzfNY23kicnmmZJo7AEwCUSJdwjd8wcGn6wAFYw@mail.gmail.com>

On 23/10/2012, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 16:02:34 -0600, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>> On my wishlist for Python is a big, fat SyntaxError for any variable
>> that could be interpreted as either local or nonlocal and is not
>> explicitly declared as either.  It would eliminate this sort of
>> confusion entirely and make code that shadows nonlocal variables much
>> more readable.
>>
> 	Which now makes code dependent upon changes to some imported modules
> if someone is foolish enough to use the
>
> 	from xyz import *
>
> notation...
>
> 	I'd be very displeased if working code with local names suddenly
> fails because some third-party package was updated.
>
> 	Yes, I prefer not to use the "from...*" notation, but how many
> tutorials (especially of GUI toolkits, with their dozens of constants)
> illustrate using the wildcard?

I'm not particularly fond (or disliking) of the proposal, but we
already make changes to the structure of locals/globals and so forth
when someone does "from <something> import *". Disabling checks when
it is used is totally reasonable.

Additionally, "SyntaxError: import * only allowed at module level".
This means, as far as I grasp, one should never *manage* to create an
ambiguity here. Ian already stated this idea should (due to
neccessity) be disabled for possible globals.


From insideshoes at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 03:36:05 2012
From: insideshoes at gmail.com (inshu chauhan)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 09:36:05 +0200
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
Message-ID: <CAFqGZRHGgN_tEinBku9cj78D_VawZgP3F8k5+FKen0mW3AeVbg@mail.gmail.com>

can we append a list with another list in Python ? using the normal routine
syntax but with a for loop ??
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From alec.taylor6 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 03:49:23 2012
From: alec.taylor6 at gmail.com (Alec Taylor)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 18:49:23 +1100
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRHGgN_tEinBku9cj78D_VawZgP3F8k5+FKen0mW3AeVbg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRHGgN_tEinBku9cj78D_VawZgP3F8k5+FKen0mW3AeVbg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+9iGfWjJpBxuZ9LMMfCGvDoQKnKeC-N2jLgBVCyGoDEEUO2A@mail.gmail.com>

Python 2.7.3 (default, Apr 10 2012, 23:24:47) [MSC v.1500 64 bit
(AMD64)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> [1,2,3,4,5] + [99,88,77,66,0]
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 99, 88, 77, 66, 0]

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 6:36 PM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com> wrote:
> can we append a list with another list in Python ? using the normal routine
> syntax but with a for loop ??
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Tue Oct 23 04:07:46 2012
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 09:07:46 +0100
Subject: Is there a way to programmatically turn on remote registry?
In-Reply-To: <CAN4UfGynWcuq1nW=_9OKfOki-7hENCF6SRN5BtN60wyxFt0U6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN4UfGy6dkdtKiQ+ghh7=CirS9Lca8DOrHvEiKRefgWUSwVFDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671F47B@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
	<CAN4UfGx1JEzaTm_hKLH8Mf1N9qCB_d9qtNUTupFCkctUGaB2wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<c1t3881ofvciftl2pjpkkm4cfjeacvftkj@invalid.netcom.com>
	<CAN4UfGzz81jvkzMByhQ3MAjpdFT_eNy9oRfcwa2j_PGFpoTePw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508560AC.2080307@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGxLZXuR8VdzpunASfqudJVyp=Zds36evud-3cAy9cD2xw@mail.gmail.com>
	<50859EA6.7020602@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGynWcuq1nW=_9OKfOki-7hENCF6SRN5BtN60wyxFt0U6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50865052.3030108@timgolden.me.uk>

On 22/10/2012 21:01, Kevin Holleran wrote:
> Tim,
> 
> I am looking here:
> 
> SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\{BF9F6FB0-C999-4D19-BED0-144F77E2A9D6}
> 
> Enumerating the keys for a BusType == 5, then grabbing the values of
> DriverDesc, DriverDate, & DriverVersion.
> 
> So I am doing this:

[... snip querying uninstallers ...]

I don't have that particular uninstaller key but the code below, using
the wmi module to hide the plumbing, queries all the installers and
should give you enough of an idea, hopefully. For brevilty, I've only
bothered with extracting string values; it would be easy to extract
other datatypes.

To perform the same query on another computer, just pass the other
computer name (or IP address) as the first parameter to the wmi.WMI call
(or use the named param "computer").

<code>
import _winreg as winreg
import wmi

HKLM = winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
UNINSTALLERS = "SOFTWARE\\Microsoft\\Windows\\CurrentVersion\\Uninstall"

registry = wmi.WMI(namespace="default").StdRegProv
_, names = registry.EnumKey(HKLM, UNINSTALLERS)
for name in names:
    print name
    uninstaller = UNINSTALLERS + "\\" + name
    _, value_names, value_types = registry.EnumValues(HKLM, uninstaller)
    for value_name, value_type in zip(value_names, value_types):
        if value_type == winreg.REG_SZ:
            _, value = registry.GetStringValue(
              HKLM, uninstaller, value_name
            )
        else:
            value = "(Non-string value)"
        print u"  ", value_name, u"=>", value

</code>


TJG


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Tue Oct 23 04:51:32 2012
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:51:32 +0200
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRHGgN_tEinBku9cj78D_VawZgP3F8k5+FKen0mW3AeVbg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRHGgN_tEinBku9cj78D_VawZgP3F8k5+FKen0mW3AeVbg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADjSo4SmnLsKn0A3wjdJTkuWwt5BZZ=sk+sxLXMJVLP3yq3F5w@mail.gmail.com>

> can we append a list with another list in Python ? using the normal routine
> syntax but with a for loop ??

x = [1,2,3]
y = [10,20,30]
x.extend( y )
print x

this will give you [1,2,3,10,20,30] which I guess is what you want.

Cheers,
Daniel



-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From schesis at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 04:56:02 2012
From: schesis at gmail.com (Zero Piraeus)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 04:56:02 -0400
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRHGgN_tEinBku9cj78D_VawZgP3F8k5+FKen0mW3AeVbg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRHGgN_tEinBku9cj78D_VawZgP3F8k5+FKen0mW3AeVbg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANaSqUcOC5Z0tGVLXSDqcjMudqY_TsgP9Cde628TDcsWXnO-Xg@mail.gmail.com>

:

On 23 October 2012 03:36, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com> wrote:
> can we append a list with another list in Python ? using the normal routine
> syntax but with a for loop ??

The standard way to append the contents of one list to another is list.extend:

>>> a = [1, 2, 3]
>>> b = [4, 5, 6]
>>> a.extend(b)
>>> a
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]

... but I'm not sure what you mean by "... with a for loop"?

 -[]z.


From sadzak at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 05:10:42 2012
From: sadzak at gmail.com (Adnan Sadzak)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 11:10:42 +0200
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CANaSqUcOC5Z0tGVLXSDqcjMudqY_TsgP9Cde628TDcsWXnO-Xg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRHGgN_tEinBku9cj78D_VawZgP3F8k5+FKen0mW3AeVbg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANaSqUcOC5Z0tGVLXSDqcjMudqY_TsgP9Cde628TDcsWXnO-Xg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG6E59UmxArncWorqqCY6zTnWi_B-ht8yn=onk10EWY7EtxmgQ@mail.gmail.com>

> ... but I'm not sure what you mean by "... with a for loop"?
>
>  -[]z.
>
>
Maybe this? :
-----
x = [1,2,3]
y = [10,20,30]
for z in y:
     x.append(z)

print x
-----

But list.extend should be right way.

Cheers
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From insideshoes at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 05:15:48 2012
From: insideshoes at gmail.com (inshu chauhan)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 11:15:48 +0200
Subject: Fwd: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CANaSqUdCjpHJ8YTYvUUkdPzspxHZLiu8JijEvYiCDXB2B4iDKA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRHGgN_tEinBku9cj78D_VawZgP3F8k5+FKen0mW3AeVbg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANaSqUcOC5Z0tGVLXSDqcjMudqY_TsgP9Cde628TDcsWXnO-Xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRHcL10Y9AUFEQ-_i5yuhXFE+YnR-yS++cfKQGO4UZ_Zsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANaSqUdCjpHJ8YTYvUUkdPzspxHZLiu8JijEvYiCDXB2B4iDKA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFqGZREj5XVP63zYAFZgX5o1tGOAs2i624iEKiJ1MK6Rx577aQ@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Zero Piraeus <schesis at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
To: inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com>


:

On 23 October 2012 05:01, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com> wrote:
> this is because this makes a single list out of 2 lists.. but I want to
retain both lists as lists within list....... I hope u got it ??
>
> my problem is for example :
>
> x = [1,2,3]
> y = [10, 20, 30]
>
> I want the output to be :
>
> [[1,2,3], [10, 20, 30]] .. a list within list
>
> then i want to process each list in the big list using another function
????

For the example above, you'd just do:

>>> x = [1, 2, 3]
>>> y = [10, 20, 30]
>>> z = [x, y]
>>> z
[[1, 2, 3], [10, 20, 30]]

... but presumably there'll be more than two, and you're creating them
in some kind of loop? In that case, append is fine. For example:

>>> result = []
>>> for word in "squee", "kapow", "vroom":
...     seq = list(word)  # or whatever you're doing to create the list
...     result.append(seq)
...
>>> result
[['s', 'q', 'u', 'e', 'e'], ['k', 'a', 'p', 'o', 'w'], ['v', 'r', 'o',
'o', 'm']]

By the way - you only replied to me. Do you mind if I forward this
back to the list?

 -[]z.
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From chip9munk at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 05:17:29 2012
From: chip9munk at gmail.com (chip9munk at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 02:17:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python scripts for web
In-Reply-To: <20b28813ug83l2odd6s1hr6d03pf1rs8u6@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.2409.1350547078.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<e10b4aba-a725-46c4-aaa9-0035a099a9bf@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2412.1350549775.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<809c86c5-26a0-4f4a-bce7-ad8f63efa763@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2419.1350554581.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<866debf5-4b07-4b93-b785-442b1b14e2e5@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2475.1350594610.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<001d1ee0-80d6-44f8-aa38-85d8e18f925b@googlegroups.com>
	<20b28813ug83l2odd6s1hr6d03pf1rs8u6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <34e4f2c8-c4c6-4b53-89a8-05b8e2fc8fb6@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, October 19, 2012 12:32:48 PM UTC+2, Gilles wrote:
> In that case, are you sure a web script is a good idea? If you're
> thinking web to make it easy for people to upload data, click on a
> button, and get the results back, you might want to write the UI in
> Python but write the number crunching part in a compiled language.

well actually I would like to separate the web interface with this API...
that is why I would like to work on the server side and not think about the 
interface side.





From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 05:38:23 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:38:23 +0100
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRHGgN_tEinBku9cj78D_VawZgP3F8k5+FKen0mW3AeVbg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRHGgN_tEinBku9cj78D_VawZgP3F8k5+FKen0mW3AeVbg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qW+hoZ4G-GcL3YWhB3NYq9G66SxVpHOsmHnxmLY79FMiw@mail.gmail.com>

On 23/10/2012, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com> wrote:
> can we append a list with another list in Python ? using the normal routine
> syntax but with a for loop ??

I assume you want to join two lists.

You are corrrect that we can do:

>>> start = [1, 2, 3, 4]
>>> end = [5, 6, 7, 8]
>>>
>>> for end_item in end:
>>>     start.append(end_item)
>>>
>>> print(start)
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8]
>>>

However, it is markedly repetitive, no?
This is a common enough operation that there is a shortcut to find out about it.

If you want to find out what methods there are, try "help(...)". I
can't stress this enough.

>>> help(start)
Help on list object:

class list(object)
 |  list() -> new empty list
 |  list(iterable) -> new list initialized from iterable's items
 |
 |  Methods defined here:
 |
 |  __add__(...)
 |      x.__add__(y) <==> x+y
...
 |  append(...)
 |      L.append(object) -- append object to end
...
 |  extend(...)
 |      L.extend(iterable) -- extend list by appending elements from
the iterable
...

So list.extend seems to do exactly this!

You can always check the documentation
<http://docs.python.org/tutorial/datastructures.html>.
An lo! The documentation says "start.extend(end)" is _equivilant_ to
"start[len(start):] = end".

Why?

Well, this uses the slicing syntax.

>>> start[:3]
[1, 2, 3]
>>> start[3:]
[4]
>>> start[2:3]
[3]

Wonderously, all these really say are "ranges" in the list. Hence, you
can "put" lists in their place.

"start[len(start):] = end" means "start[-1:] = end", so what you're
doing is saying "the empty end part of the list is actually this new
list". Hopefully that makes sense.

Finally, there is another method. Instead of *changing* the list, you
can make a new list which is equal to the others "added" together.

>>> new = start + end

_______________________________________________

Theses methods all have their own upsides. If you want to change the
list, use .extend(). If you want to change the list, but by putting
the new list somewhere inside the "old" one, use slicing:

>>> start = [1, 2, 3, 4]
>>> end = [5, 6, 7, 8]
>>>
>>> start[2:2] = end
>>> print(start)
[1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 3, 4]

Looping is good for when you want to generate the extra items as you go along.

Finally, if you want to keep the old list or use these "inline", use "+".

_______________________________________________

Note that, being in the unfortunate position of "away from an
interpreter", none of my examples are copy-pastes. Hence they may be
wrong :/

# Not checked for errors, typos and my "friends" messing with it.


From insideshoes at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 05:46:16 2012
From: insideshoes at gmail.com (inshu chauhan)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 11:46:16 +0200
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qW+hoZ4G-GcL3YWhB3NYq9G66SxVpHOsmHnxmLY79FMiw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRHGgN_tEinBku9cj78D_VawZgP3F8k5+FKen0mW3AeVbg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qW+hoZ4G-GcL3YWhB3NYq9G66SxVpHOsmHnxmLY79FMiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFqGZRFUk0D_xnTZ19t6pK1dfCDKXct7iNps6MT6yjVFpF+bMw@mail.gmail.com>

Thankyou.. but my problem is different than simply joining 2 lists and it
is done now :)....

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Joshua Landau
<joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com>wrote:

> On 23/10/2012, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com> wrote:
> > can we append a list with another list in Python ? using the normal
> routine
> > syntax but with a for loop ??
>
> I assume you want to join two lists.
>
> You are corrrect that we can do:
>
> >>> start = [1, 2, 3, 4]
> >>> end = [5, 6, 7, 8]
> >>>
> >>> for end_item in end:
> >>>     start.append(end_item)
> >>>
> >>> print(start)
> [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8]
> >>>
>
> However, it is markedly repetitive, no?
> This is a common enough operation that there is a shortcut to find out
> about it.
>
> If you want to find out what methods there are, try "help(...)". I
> can't stress this enough.
>
> >>> help(start)
> Help on list object:
>
> class list(object)
>  |  list() -> new empty list
>  |  list(iterable) -> new list initialized from iterable's items
>  |
>  |  Methods defined here:
>  |
>  |  __add__(...)
>  |      x.__add__(y) <==> x+y
> ...
>  |  append(...)
>  |      L.append(object) -- append object to end
> ...
>  |  extend(...)
>  |      L.extend(iterable) -- extend list by appending elements from
> the iterable
> ...
>
> So list.extend seems to do exactly this!
>
> You can always check the documentation
> <http://docs.python.org/tutorial/datastructures.html>.
> An lo! The documentation says "start.extend(end)" is _equivilant_ to
> "start[len(start):] = end".
>
> Why?
>
> Well, this uses the slicing syntax.
>
> >>> start[:3]
> [1, 2, 3]
> >>> start[3:]
> [4]
> >>> start[2:3]
> [3]
>
> Wonderously, all these really say are "ranges" in the list. Hence, you
> can "put" lists in their place.
>
> "start[len(start):] = end" means "start[-1:] = end", so what you're
> doing is saying "the empty end part of the list is actually this new
> list". Hopefully that makes sense.
>
> Finally, there is another method. Instead of *changing* the list, you
> can make a new list which is equal to the others "added" together.
>
> >>> new = start + end
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Theses methods all have their own upsides. If you want to change the
> list, use .extend(). If you want to change the list, but by putting
> the new list somewhere inside the "old" one, use slicing:
>
> >>> start = [1, 2, 3, 4]
> >>> end = [5, 6, 7, 8]
> >>>
> >>> start[2:2] = end
> >>> print(start)
> [1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 3, 4]
>
> Looping is good for when you want to generate the extra items as you go
> along.
>
> Finally, if you want to keep the old list or use these "inline", use "+".
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Note that, being in the unfortunate position of "away from an
> interpreter", none of my examples are copy-pastes. Hence they may be
> wrong :/
>
> # Not checked for errors, typos and my "friends" messing with it.
>
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From daniel.dehennin at ac-dijon.fr  Tue Oct 23 07:04:21 2012
From: daniel.dehennin at ac-dijon.fr (Daniel Dehennin)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 13:04:21 +0200
Subject: Making `logging.basicConfig` log to *both* `sys.stderr` and
	`sys.stdout`?
References: <34939e5a-19ba-4cc5-b10b-36f8b2e42830@h9g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87objt5u16.fsf@daniel.eole.lan>

Hello,

>> Unfortunately this setup makes `logging.basicConfig` pretty useless.
>> However, I believe that this is something that more people could
>> benefit from. I also believe, that it just "makes sense" to send
>> warnings (and above) to `stderr`, the rest to `stdout`.

[...]

> Python 2.x is closed to feature changes, and Python 2.7 and Python 3.2
> already support flexible configuration using dictConfig() - see
> 
> http://docs.python.org/library/logging.config.html#logging.config.dictConfig
> 
> Also, Python 3.3 will support passing a list of handlers to
> basicConfig(): see
> 
> http://plumberjack.blogspot.com/2011/04/added-functionality-for-basicconfig=
> -in.html
> 
> which will allow you to do what you want quite easily.

I tried to setup the same for my scripts with
"logging.config.dictConfig()" without much success, I want to limit
output to stdout to INFO, everything bellow INFO should be sent to
stderr instead.

Any hints?

Here is my configuration:

#+begin_src python
def init_logging(options):
    # TODO: color stderr messages by level if sys.stderr.isatty()
    config = { 'version' : 1,
               'formatters' : { 'stdout' : { 'format' : '%(message)s',
                                             'datefmt' : '', },
                                'stderr' : { 'format' : '%(message)s',
                                             'datefmt' : '', },
                },
               'handlers' : { 'stdout' : { 'class' : 'logging.StreamHandler',
                                           'stream' : 'ext://sys.stdout',
                                           'level' : 'INFO',
                                           'formatter' : 'stdout', },
                              'stderr' : { 'class' : 'logging.StreamHandler', 
                                           'stream' : 'ext://sys.stderr',
                                           'level' : 'WARNING', 
                                           'formatter' : 'stderr', }
                },
               'root' : { 'level' : options.log_level.upper(),
                          'handlers' : ['stdout', 'stderr'],
                },
    }

    logging.config.dictConfig( config )
    return logging.getLogger()
#+end_src

Regards.
-- 
Daniel Dehennin
EOLE
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Oct 23 07:07:45 2012
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 13:07:45 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRFUk0D_xnTZ19t6pK1dfCDKXct7iNps6MT6yjVFpF+bMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <901739839.1116059.1350990465261.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>

----- Original Message ----- 

> Thankyou.. but my problem is different than simply joining 2 lists
> and it is done now :)....


A lot of people though you were asking for joining lists, you description was misleading.

I'll take a guess: you want to flatten a list of list.
"Nested" list comprehensions can do the trick.

aList =[[1,5], [2,'a']]
[item for sublist in aList for item in sublist]

...
[1, 5, 2, 'a']
       
I find it rather difficult to read though.

Cheers,

JM


-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: 

The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.

From kdawg44 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 08:19:33 2012
From: kdawg44 at gmail.com (Kevin Holleran)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:19:33 -0400
Subject: Is there a way to programmatically turn on remote registry?
In-Reply-To: <50865052.3030108@timgolden.me.uk>
References: <CAN4UfGy6dkdtKiQ+ghh7=CirS9Lca8DOrHvEiKRefgWUSwVFDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671F47B@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
	<CAN4UfGx1JEzaTm_hKLH8Mf1N9qCB_d9qtNUTupFCkctUGaB2wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<c1t3881ofvciftl2pjpkkm4cfjeacvftkj@invalid.netcom.com>
	<CAN4UfGzz81jvkzMByhQ3MAjpdFT_eNy9oRfcwa2j_PGFpoTePw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508560AC.2080307@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGxLZXuR8VdzpunASfqudJVyp=Zds36evud-3cAy9cD2xw@mail.gmail.com>
	<50859EA6.7020602@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGynWcuq1nW=_9OKfOki-7hENCF6SRN5BtN60wyxFt0U6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<50865052.3030108@timgolden.me.uk>
Message-ID: <CAN4UfGz9+wrBmCHQVWxiKPhvHGVHDSpo64Qmj_9yC=ia_2eeFw@mail.gmail.com>

Tim,

I am re-implementing in my script now.  I'll let you know how it goes... I
just realized that the key that I sent over was completely wrong.... I am
not sure how I even got it as it is the combination of two different keys
from two different scripts... must have been working too long and
everything blending together... :)

Thanks for your help!

Kevin


On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 4:07 AM, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:

> On 22/10/2012 21:01, Kevin Holleran wrote:
> > Tim,
> >
> > I am looking here:
> >
> >
> SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\{BF9F6FB0-C999-4D19-BED0-144F77E2A9D6}
> >
> > Enumerating the keys for a BusType == 5, then grabbing the values of
> > DriverDesc, DriverDate, & DriverVersion.
> >
> > So I am doing this:
>
> [... snip querying uninstallers ...]
>
> I don't have that particular uninstaller key but the code below, using
> the wmi module to hide the plumbing, queries all the installers and
> should give you enough of an idea, hopefully. For brevilty, I've only
> bothered with extracting string values; it would be easy to extract
> other datatypes.
>
> To perform the same query on another computer, just pass the other
> computer name (or IP address) as the first parameter to the wmi.WMI call
> (or use the named param "computer").
>
> <code>
> import _winreg as winreg
> import wmi
>
> HKLM = winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
> UNINSTALLERS = "SOFTWARE\\Microsoft\\Windows\\CurrentVersion\\Uninstall"
>
> registry = wmi.WMI(namespace="default").StdRegProv
> _, names = registry.EnumKey(HKLM, UNINSTALLERS)
> for name in names:
>     print name
>     uninstaller = UNINSTALLERS + "\\" + name
>     _, value_names, value_types = registry.EnumValues(HKLM, uninstaller)
>     for value_name, value_type in zip(value_names, value_types):
>         if value_type == winreg.REG_SZ:
>             _, value = registry.GetStringValue(
>               HKLM, uninstaller, value_name
>             )
>         else:
>             value = "(Non-string value)"
>         print u"  ", value_name, u"=>", value
>
> </code>
>
>
> TJG
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From warem2888 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 08:27:36 2012
From: warem2888 at gmail.com (Constantine)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 05:27:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: dirty tara lynn takes on multiple cocks
Message-ID: <71d28ba5-f6a2-405d-8cc7-0bbd33a57676@googlegroups.com>


dirty tara lynn takes on multiple cocks http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dirty+tara+lynn+takes+on+multiple+cocks+site:wxwusqxeh470.blogspot.com&btnI=I%27m+Feeling+Lucky


From neilc at norwich.edu  Tue Oct 23 08:30:51 2012
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 23 Oct 2012 12:30:51 GMT
Subject: get each pair from a string.
References: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2594.1350845107.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1a8e1d4b-dddc-48c6-aec8-8041bb559a30@u4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
	<177aa300-9863-44f3-94da-7bc11bff2eda@i7g2000pbf.googlegroups.com>
	<7fdadf96-2ec2-43c7-a5e2-74228c06faca@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <aengvrFd3qdU1@mid.individual.net>

On 2012-10-23, wxjmfauth at gmail.com <wxjmfauth at gmail.com> wrote:
> Why bother with speeed?

Because the differences between O(N), O(log(N)) and O(N ** 2)
operations are often relevant.

A Python string replace function experiencing a slow-down from
previous versions doesn't absolve me from making informed choices
of algorithm and implentation.

-- 
Neil Cerutti


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Oct 23 08:44:10 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 13:44:10 +0100
Subject: get each pair from a string.
In-Reply-To: <7fdadf96-2ec2-43c7-a5e2-74228c06faca@googlegroups.com>
References: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2594.1350845107.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1a8e1d4b-dddc-48c6-aec8-8041bb559a30@u4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
	<177aa300-9863-44f3-94da-7bc11bff2eda@i7g2000pbf.googlegroups.com>
	<7fdadf96-2ec2-43c7-a5e2-74228c06faca@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k6639j$org$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 23/10/2012 07:47, wxjmfauth at gmail.com wrote:
>
> Why bother with speeed?
>
> The latest Python version is systematically slower
> than the previous ones as soon as one uses non "ascii
> strings".
>
> Python users are discussing "code optimizations" without
> realizing the tool they are using, has killed itself its
> own performances.
>
> (Replace 'apple' with 'ap???')
>
> jmf
>

Please stop giving blatant lies on this list about Python speed.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From andriy.kornatskyy at live.com  Tue Oct 23 08:45:56 2012
From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com (Andriy Kornatskyy)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 15:45:56 +0300
Subject: Fastest template engine
In-Reply-To: <DUB117-W67AA9A434F18303C3E93D691750@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB117-W61FFFFB17826AE69188FF919F0@phx.gbl>, ,
	<DUB117-W100D5C987F23C2458BD5271919C0@phx.gbl>,
	<DUB117-W67AA9A434F18303C3E93D691750@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <DUB117-W67064608224C0BE337F0C091790@phx.gbl>


Python template engines offer high reusability of markup code and the following features are used by content developers most of the time:

* Includes: useful to incorporate some snippets of content that in most cases are common to the site, e.g. footer, scripts, styles, etc.

* Extends: useful to define a master layout for the majority of the site content with placeholders, e.g. sidebar, horizontal menu, content, etc. The content developers extend the master layout by substituting available placeholders.

* Widgets: usually small snippets of highly reusable markup, e.g. list item, button, etc. The content developers use widgets to increase readability and enforce consistency of design.

All mentioned features above are examined for various template engines (django, jinja2, mako, tornado and wheezy.template) in the following post:

http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/10/python-templates-benchmark.html

The test is executed in isolated environment using CPython 2.7 but can be run for Python 3.3 and/or PyPy 1.9. Source code is here:

https://bitbucket.org/akorn/helloworld

Comments or suggestions are welcome.

Thanks.

Andriy


----------------------------------------
> From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: RE: Fastest template engine
> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 11:34:41 +0300
>
>
> Per community request cheetah has been added to benchmark. Post updated, just in case:
>
> http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/07/python-fastest-template.html
>
> Comments or suggestions are welcome.
>
> Andriy
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
> > From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com
> > To: python-list at python.org
> > Subject: RE: Fastest template engine
> > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 16:21:21 +0300
> >
> >
> > The post has been updated with the following template engines added (per community request):
> >
> > 1. chameleon
> > 2. django
> > 3. web2py
> >
> > Here is a link:
> >
> > http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/07/python-fastest-template.html
> >
> > Comments or suggestions are welcome.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Andriy
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------
> > > From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com
> > > To: python-list at python.org
> > > Subject: Fastest template engine
> > > Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 12:24:36 +0300
> > >
> > >
> > > I have run recently a benchmark of a trivial 'big table' example for various python template engines (jinja2, mako, tenjin, tornado and wheezy.template) run on cpython2.7 and pypy1.9...... you might find it interesting:
> > >
> > > http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/07/python-fastest-template.html
> > >
> > > Comments or suggestions are welcome.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Andriy Kornatskyy
> > > --
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
 		 	   		  

From d at davea.name  Tue Oct 23 09:13:50 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 09:13:50 -0400
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRHGgN_tEinBku9cj78D_VawZgP3F8k5+FKen0mW3AeVbg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRHGgN_tEinBku9cj78D_VawZgP3F8k5+FKen0mW3AeVbg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5086980E.5050307@davea.name>

On 10/23/2012 03:36 AM, inshu chauhan wrote:
> can we append a list with another list in Python ? using the normal routine
> syntax but with a for loop ??
>
>

To combine list a with list b, you can do any of:

c = a + b
a += b
a.extend(b)

Obviously, the first leaves a unmodified, while the other two modify it
in-place.



-- 

DaveA



From vs at it.uu.se  Tue Oct 23 10:31:17 2012
From: vs at it.uu.se (Virgil Stokes)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 16:31:17 +0200
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
Message-ID: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>

I am working with some rather large data files (>100GB) that contain time series 
data. The data (t_k,y(t_k)), k = 0,1,...,N are stored in ASCII format. I perform 
various types of processing on these data (e.g. moving median, moving average, 
and Kalman-filter, Kalman-smoother) in a sequential manner and only a small 
number of these data need be stored in RAM when being processed. When performing 
Kalman-filtering (forward in time pass, k = 0,1,...,N) I need to save to an 
external file several variables (e.g. 11*32 bytes) for each (t_k, y(t_k)). These 
are inputs to the Kalman-smoother (backward in time pass, k = N,N-1,...,0). 
Thus, I will need to input these variables saved to an external file from the 
forward pass, in reverse order --- from last written to first written.

Finally, to my question --- What is a fast way to write these variables to an 
external file and then read them in backwards?




From jaorozco at estudiantes.uci.cu  Tue Oct 23 10:36:00 2012
From: jaorozco at estudiantes.uci.cu (jorge)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:36:00 -0400
Subject: problem with ThreadingTCPServer Handler
Message-ID: <5086AB50.8090806@estudiantes.uci.cu>

I'm programming a server that most send a message to each client 
connected to it and nothing else. this is obviously a base of what i 
want to do. the thing is, I made a class wich contains the Handler class 
for the ThreadingTCPServer and starts the server but i don't know how 
can i access the message variable contained in the class from the 
Handler since I have not to instance the Handler by myself.
here is the base code of what I'm doing.

import SocketServer
import socket
from threading import Thread

class CustomTCPServer:
     msg = "no message"
     outport = 8080

     class Handler(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):
         def handle(self):
             self.request.sendall('<here goes msg from CustomTCPServer>')


     def __init__(self,msg,outport):
         self.msg = server
         self.outport = outport

     def runServer(self):
         addr = ('',self.outport)
         s = SocketServer.ThreadingTCPServer(addr,self.Handler)
         r = Thread(target=s.serve_forever).start()
         print '> Server running running',self.server,self.outport


CustomTCPServer('msg1',1212).runServer()
CustomTCPServer('msg2',1213).runServer()

can anyone please help me?

10mo. ANIVERSARIO DE LA CREACION DE LA UNIVERSIDAD DE LAS CIENCIAS INFORMATICAS...
CONECTADOS AL FUTURO, CONECTADOS A LA REVOLUCION

http://www.uci.cu
http://www.facebook.com/universidad.uci
http://www.flickr.com/photos/universidad_uci


From travisgriggs at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 11:13:25 2012
From: travisgriggs at gmail.com (Travis Griggs)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:13:25 -0700
Subject: Style help for a Smalltalk-hack
In-Reply-To: <5085F3DA.1010809@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <168DF25C-0C43-45F2-BEDC-17AC4210F207@gmail.com>
	<5085F3DA.1010809@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <409B8DCE-2A8A-4B3D-B760-016A0EAB1FC3@gmail.com>


On Oct 22, 2012, at 6:33 PM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:

> Another way you could do it is:
> 
> while True:
>    chunk = byteStream.read(4)
>    if not chunk:
>        break
>    ...
> 
> And you could fetch multiple signatures in one read:
> 
> signatures = list(struct.unpack('>{}I'.format(valveCount), byteStream.read(4 * valueCount)))

Thanks, both great ideas. Still does the read/decode slightly different between the different sites, but at least it's localized better. Much appreciated.

--
Travis Griggs
"History has a habit of changing the people who think they are changing it." -Terry Pratchett



From travisgriggs at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 11:18:32 2012
From: travisgriggs at gmail.com (Travis Griggs)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:18:32 -0700
Subject: Style help for a Smalltalk-hack
In-Reply-To: <5085F3DA.1010809@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <168DF25C-0C43-45F2-BEDC-17AC4210F207@gmail.com>
	<5085F3DA.1010809@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <01F67BDE-79EE-45CC-A2DF-619A65FBD1B4@gmail.com>


On Oct 22, 2012, at 6:33 PM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:

> By the way, in Python the recommended style for variable names (well,
> what you'd call a 'variable' in other languages :-)) is lowercase with
> underscores, e.g. "byte_stream".

We went with the 

"...mixedCase is allowed only in contexts where that's already the prevailing style (e.g. threading.py), to retain backwards compatibility?"

escape clause. :)

The group of us here are working in multiple languages, and all use it (mixedCase) across all of them. Because PEP 8 makes it clear up front that "internal consistency is preferred",  we felt justified in marching on.

--
Travis Griggs
"A vital ingredient of success is not knowing that what you're attempting can't be done." -Terry Pratchett



From chess at us.ibm.com  Tue Oct 23 11:23:17 2012
From: chess at us.ibm.com (David M Chess)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 11:23:17 -0400
Subject: Getting a TimedRotatingFileHandler not to put two dates in the same
	file?
Message-ID: <OFF42E9E1E.D755EB22-ON85257AA0.00534D0A-85257AA0.005487C9@us.ibm.com>

We have a TimedRotatingFileHandler with when='midnight'. 

This works great, splitting the log information across files by date, as 
long as the process is actually up at midnight.

But now the users have noticed that if the process isn't up at midnight, 
they can end up with lines from two (or I guess potentially more) dates in 
the same log file.

Is there some way to fix this, either with cleverer arguments into the 
TimedRotatingFileHandler, or by some plausible subclassing of it or its 
superclass?

Or am I misinterpreting the symptoms somehow?

Tx much!
DC
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From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Oct 23 12:09:58 2012
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 11:09:58 -0500
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
Message-ID: <5086C156.40707@tim.thechases.com>

On 10/23/12 09:31, Virgil Stokes wrote:
> I am working with some rather large data files (>100GB) that contain time series 
> data. The data (t_k,y(t_k)), k = 0,1,...,N are stored in ASCII format. I perform 
> various types of processing on these data (e.g. moving median, moving average, 
> and Kalman-filter, Kalman-smoother) in a sequential manner and only a small 
> number of these data need be stored in RAM when being processed. When performing 
> Kalman-filtering (forward in time pass, k = 0,1,...,N) I need to save to an 
> external file several variables (e.g. 11*32 bytes) for each (t_k, y(t_k)). These 
> are inputs to the Kalman-smoother (backward in time pass, k = N,N-1,...,0). 
> Thus, I will need to input these variables saved to an external file from the 
> forward pass, in reverse order --- from last written to first written.
> 
> Finally, to my question --- What is a fast way to write these variables to an 
> external file and then read them in backwards?

Am I missing something, or would the fairly-standard "tac" utility
do the reversal you want?  It should[*] be optimized to handle
on-disk files in a smart manner.

Otherwise, if you can pad the record-lengths so they're all the
same, and you know the total number of records, you can seek to
Total-(RecSize*OneBasedOffset) and write the record,optionally
padding if you need/can.  At least on *nix-like OSes, you can seek
into a sparse-file with no problems (untested on Win32).

-tkc



[*]
Just guessing here. Would be disappointed if it *wasn't*.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Oct 23 12:17:35 2012
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 09:17:35 -0700
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
References: <mailman.2667.1351003942.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xehkpxiw0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se> writes:
> Finally, to my question --- What is a fast way to write these
> variables to an external file and then read them in backwards?

Seeking backwards in files works, but the performance hit is
significant.  There is also a performance hit to scanning pointers
backwards in memory, due to cache misprediction.  If it's something
you're just running a few times, seeking backwards the simplest
approach.  If you're really trying to optimize the thing, you might
buffer up large chunks (like 1 MB) before writing.  If you're writing
once and reading multiple times, you might reverse the order of records
within the chunks during the writing phase.  

You're of course taking a performance bath from writing the program in
Python to begin with (unless using scipy/numpy or the like), enough that
it might dominate any effects of how the files are written.

Of course (it should go without saying) that you want to dump in a
binary format rather than converting to decimal.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Oct 23 12:22:21 2012
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 09:22:21 -0700
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
References: <mailman.2667.1351003942.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7xehkpxiw0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <7xmwzdkvk2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> writes:
> Seeking backwards in files works, but the performance hit is
> significant.  There is also a performance hit to scanning pointers
> backwards in memory, due to cache misprediction.  If it's something
> you're just running a few times, seeking backwards the simplest
> approach. 

Oh yes, I should have mentioned, it may be simpler and perhaps a little
bit faster to use mmap rather than seeking.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Oct 23 12:40:33 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 17:40:33 +0100
Subject: Compiling extension module (linker error)
In-Reply-To: <CAK38ikT4rx79TC2QQF7pvVnwHDiHpCN_Y0RCt4k+drf_VxNsXg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK38ikTsrBj_GsC35uedk0PWaFGGXek+VFT=AfUqqC9-PfFr6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<50858A59.5070307@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<CAK38ikT4rx79TC2QQF7pvVnwHDiHpCN_Y0RCt4k+drf_VxNsXg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5086C881.40908@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-23 08:00, Paul Volkov wrote:
> 2012/10/22 MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com>:
>> By the way, the recommendation is for module names to be lowercase with
>> underscores, so "fund_rose" instead of "FundRose".
>>
>> Try this code:
>>
>
> I tried as you suggested, but the linker error (unresolved external)
> is still there.

I found a reference to PyModule_Create2TraceRefs in include\modsupport.h.

> I'm sure python33.lib is properly added because if I remove it, there
> are 3 errors, not 1.
> By the way, what is the difference between python3.lib and python33.lib?
>
I don't know.



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 12:41:09 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:41:09 -0600
Subject: get each pair from a string.
In-Reply-To: <7fdadf96-2ec2-43c7-a5e2-74228c06faca@googlegroups.com>
References: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2594.1350845107.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1a8e1d4b-dddc-48c6-aec8-8041bb559a30@u4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
	<177aa300-9863-44f3-94da-7bc11bff2eda@i7g2000pbf.googlegroups.com>
	<7fdadf96-2ec2-43c7-a5e2-74228c06faca@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=JH266BMZ4b2Hd-Zss3gTDrKoKj0dgWKt3oWz1LYWa5g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 12:47 AM,  <wxjmfauth at gmail.com> wrote:
> The latest Python version is systematically slower
> than the previous ones as soon as one uses non "ascii
> strings".

No, it isn't.  You've previously demonstrated a *microbenchmark* where
3.3 is slower than 3.2.  This is a far cry from demonstrating that 3.3
is "systematically slower", and that larger claim is simply false.

In any case, have you been following the progress of issue 16061?
There is a patch for the str.replace regression that you identified,
which results in better performance across the board than 3.2.  So
although 3.3 is slower than 3.2 on this one microbenchmark, 3.4 will
not be.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 12:50:11 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:50:11 -0600
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <v4tb88pgp5k1me6p8841qtk7h1g31vm90j@invalid.netcom.com>
References: <mailman.2582.1350811250.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5083c7da$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2588.1350819797.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508448c6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2601.1350850942.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5084e819$0$29897$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmphN0LEK9j+gMizZFtkcyB5S9LSdSZgQSmbxG4C1cXnsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidmRVReAS2r18rNyn9JNfZyo_8Q3JNnBoXpaOs2bgZ8Qkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<v4tb88pgp5k1me6p8841qtk7h1g31vm90j@invalid.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnLiw6ap3MtnDjDikqvE+BhJe8Mu5i7XgmeTQ+gQSyJNA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 7:39 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber
<wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 16:02:34 -0600, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>> On my wishlist for Python is a big, fat SyntaxError for any variable
>> that could be interpreted as either local or nonlocal and is not
>> explicitly declared as either.  It would eliminate this sort of
>> confusion entirely and make code that shadows nonlocal variables much
>> more readable.
>>
>         Which now makes code dependent upon changes to some imported modules
> if someone is foolish enough to use the
>
>         from xyz import *
>
> notation...

It's already a SyntaxError to use a wildcard import anywhere other
than the module level, so its use can only affect global variables.


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Oct 23 12:53:37 2012
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 11:53:37 -0500
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <7xehkpxiw0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.2667.1351003942.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7xehkpxiw0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <5086CB91.2080904@tim.thechases.com>

On 10/23/12 11:17, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se> writes:
>> Finally, to my question --- What is a fast way to write these
>> variables to an external file and then read them in backwards?
> 
> Seeking backwards in files works, but the performance hit is
> significant.  There is also a performance hit to scanning pointers
> backwards in memory, due to cache misprediction.  If it's something
> you're just running a few times, seeking backwards the simplest
> approach.  If you're really trying to optimize the thing, you might
> buffer up large chunks (like 1 MB) before writing.  If you're writing
> once and reading multiple times, you might reverse the order of records
> within the chunks during the writing phase.

I agree with Paul here, it's been a while since I did it, and my
dataset was small enough (and passed through once) so I just let it
run.  Writing larger chunks is definitely a good way to go.

> You're of course taking a performance bath from writing the program in
> Python to begin with (unless using scipy/numpy or the like), enough that
> it might dominate any effects of how the files are written.

I usually find that the I/O almost always overwhelms the actual
processing.

> Of course (it should go without saying) that you want to dump in a
> binary format rather than converting to decimal.

Again, the conversion to/from decimal hasn't been a great cost in my
experience, as it's overwhelmed by the I/O cost of shoveling the
data to/from disk.

-tkc




From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Oct 23 12:58:38 2012
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 09:58:38 -0700
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
References: <mailman.2667.1351003942.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7xehkpxiw0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2676.1351011158.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xliexktvl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> writes:
> Again, the conversion to/from decimal hasn't been a great cost in my
> experience, as it's overwhelmed by the I/O cost of shoveling the
> data to/from disk.

I've found that cpu costs both for processing and conversion are
significant.  Also, using a binary format makes the file a lot smaller,
which decreases the i/o cost as well eliminating the conversion cost.
And, the conversion can introduce precision loss, another thing to be
avoided.  The famous "butterfly effect" was serendipitously discovered
that way.


From vs at it.uu.se  Tue Oct 23 13:06:46 2012
From: vs at it.uu.se (Virgil Stokes)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 19:06:46 +0200
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <7xehkpxiw0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.2667.1351003942.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7xehkpxiw0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <5086CEA6.80502@it.uu.se>

On 23-Oct-2012 18:17, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se> writes:
>> Finally, to my question --- What is a fast way to write these
>> variables to an external file and then read them in backwards?
> Seeking backwards in files works, but the performance hit is
> significant.  There is also a performance hit to scanning pointers
> backwards in memory, due to cache misprediction.  If it's something
> you're just running a few times, seeking backwards the simplest
> approach.  If you're really trying to optimize the thing, you might
> buffer up large chunks (like 1 MB) before writing.  If you're writing
> once and reading multiple times, you might reverse the order of records
> within the chunks during the writing phase.
I am writing (forward) once and reading (backward) once.
>
> You're of course taking a performance bath from writing the program in
> Python to begin with (unless using scipy/numpy or the like), enough that
> it might dominate any effects of how the files are written.
I am currently using SciPy/NumPy
>
> Of course (it should go without saying) that you want to dump in a
> binary format rather than converting to decimal.
Yes, I am doing this (but thanks for "underlining" it!)

Thanks Paul :-)


From vs at it.uu.se  Tue Oct 23 13:09:32 2012
From: vs at it.uu.se (Virgil Stokes)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 19:09:32 +0200
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <4qhd885qnovi81hf689uobmdbu3b4nb7nv@invalid.netcom.com>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
	<4qhd885qnovi81hf689uobmdbu3b4nb7nv@invalid.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <5086CF4C.1020908@it.uu.se>

On 23-Oct-2012 18:35, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 16:31:17 +0200, Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>> Finally, to my question --- What is a fast way to write these variables to an
>> external file and then read them in backwards?
>>
> 	Stuff them into an SQLite3 database and retrieve using a descending
> sort?
Have never worked with a database; but, could be worth a try (at least to 
compare I/O times).

Thanks Dennis :-)


From vs at it.uu.se  Tue Oct 23 13:17:51 2012
From: vs at it.uu.se (Virgil Stokes)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 19:17:51 +0200
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <5086C156.40707@tim.thechases.com>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se> <5086C156.40707@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <5086D13F.80006@it.uu.se>

On 23-Oct-2012 18:09, Tim Chase wrote:
> On 10/23/12 09:31, Virgil Stokes wrote:
>> I am working with some rather large data files (>100GB) that contain time series
>> data. The data (t_k,y(t_k)), k = 0,1,...,N are stored in ASCII format. I perform
>> various types of processing on these data (e.g. moving median, moving average,
>> and Kalman-filter, Kalman-smoother) in a sequential manner and only a small
>> number of these data need be stored in RAM when being processed. When performing
>> Kalman-filtering (forward in time pass, k = 0,1,...,N) I need to save to an
>> external file several variables (e.g. 11*32 bytes) for each (t_k, y(t_k)). These
>> are inputs to the Kalman-smoother (backward in time pass, k = N,N-1,...,0).
>> Thus, I will need to input these variables saved to an external file from the
>> forward pass, in reverse order --- from last written to first written.
>>
>> Finally, to my question --- What is a fast way to write these variables to an
>> external file and then read them in backwards?
> Am I missing something, or would the fairly-standard "tac" utility
> do the reversal you want?  It should[*] be optimized to handle
> on-disk files in a smart manner.
Not sure about "tac" --- could you provide more details on this and/or a simple 
example of how it could be used for fast reversed "reading" of a data file?
>
> Otherwise, if you can pad the record-lengths so they're all the
> same, and you know the total number of records, you can seek to
> Total-(RecSize*OneBasedOffset) and write the record,optionally
> padding if you need/can.  At least on *nix-like OSes, you can seek
> into a sparse-file with no problems (untested on Win32).
The records lengths will all be the same and yes seek could be used; but, I was 
hoping for a faster method.

Thanks Tim! :-)
>
> -tkc
>
>
>
> [*]
> Just guessing here. Would be disappointed if it *wasn't*.



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 13:46:37 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 11:46:37 -0600
Subject: Style help for a Smalltalk-hack
In-Reply-To: <409B8DCE-2A8A-4B3D-B760-016A0EAB1FC3@gmail.com>
References: <168DF25C-0C43-45F2-BEDC-17AC4210F207@gmail.com>
	<5085F3DA.1010809@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<409B8DCE-2A8A-4B3D-B760-016A0EAB1FC3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidm9-PBAHgVw=fDehpZWkP4Fusq+qF2k+o5ACr+zrnBZng@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 9:13 AM, Travis Griggs <travisgriggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Oct 22, 2012, at 6:33 PM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
>
>> Another way you could do it is:
>>
>> while True:
>>    chunk = byteStream.read(4)
>>    if not chunk:
>>        break
>>    ...
>>
>> And you could fetch multiple signatures in one read:
>>
>> signatures = list(struct.unpack('>{}I'.format(valveCount), byteStream.read(4 * valueCount)))
>
> Thanks, both great ideas. Still does the read/decode slightly different between the different sites, but at least it's localized better. Much appreciated.

Another small optimization would be to read the gap and the valveCount together:

chunk = byteStream.read(8)
...
gap, valveCount = struct.unpack('>2l', chunk)


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Oct 23 13:56:29 2012
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 12:56:29 -0500
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <5086D13F.80006@it.uu.se>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se> <5086C156.40707@tim.thechases.com>
	<5086D13F.80006@it.uu.se>
Message-ID: <5086DA4D.4060204@tim.thechases.com>

On 10/23/12 12:17, Virgil Stokes wrote:
> On 23-Oct-2012 18:09, Tim Chase wrote:
>>> Finally, to my question --- What is a fast way to write these
>>> variables to an external file and then read them in
>>> backwards?
>> Am I missing something, or would the fairly-standard "tac"
>> utility do the reversal you want?  It should[*] be optimized to
>> handle on-disk files in a smart manner.
> Not sure about "tac" --- could you provide more details on this
> and/or a simple example of how it could be used for fast reversed
> "reading" of a data file?

Well, if you're reading input.txt (and assuming it's one record per
line, separated by newlines), you can just use

  tac < input.txt > backwards.txt

which will create a secondary file that is the first file in reverse
order.  Your program can then process this secondary file in-order
(which would be backwards from your source).

I might have misunderstood your difficulty, but it _sounded_ like
you just want to inverse the order of a file.

-tkc







From roy at panix.com  Tue Oct 23 14:06:59 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: 23 Oct 2012 14:06:59 -0400
Subject: PIL and requests don't get along
Message-ID: <k66mc3$ed3$1@panix2.panix.com>

I have a url from which I can get an image.  I want to use PIL to
manipulate that image.  Getting the image is easy:

>>> import requests
>>> r = requests.get(url)

There's a bunch of factory functions for Image, but none of them seem
to take anything that requests is willing to give you.  Image.new()
requires that you pass it the image size.  Image.open() takes a file
object, but

>>> Image.open(r.raw)

doesn't work because r.raw gives you a socket which doesn't support
seek().  I end up doing:

>>> r = requests.get(url)
>>> data = cStringIO.StringIO(r.content)
>>> image = Image.open(data)

which works, but it's gross.  Is there something I'm missing here?


From aclark at aclark.net  Tue Oct 23 14:28:56 2012
From: aclark at aclark.net (Alex Clark)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 14:28:56 -0400
Subject: PIL and requests don't get along
References: <k66mc3$ed3$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <k66nl6$un9$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2012-10-23 18:06:59 +0000, Roy Smith said:

> I have a url from which I can get an image.  I want to use PIL to
> manipulate that image.  Getting the image is easy:
> 
>>>> import requests
>>>> r = requests.get(url)
> 
> There's a bunch of factory functions for Image, but none of them seem
> to take anything that requests is willing to give you.  Image.new()
> requires that you pass it the image size.  Image.open() takes a file
> object, but
> 
>>>> Image.open(r.raw)
> 
> doesn't work because r.raw gives you a socket which doesn't support
> seek().  I end up doing:
> 
>>>> r = requests.get(url)
>>>> data = cStringIO.StringIO(r.content)
>>>> image = Image.open(data)
> 
> which works, but it's gross.  Is there something I'm missing here?


No idea but you can open a ticket here if you think it's appropriate:  
https://github.com/python-imaging/Pillow/issues


-- 
Alex Clark ? https://www.gittip.com/aclark4life/




From vs at it.uu.se  Tue Oct 23 14:37:04 2012
From: vs at it.uu.se (Virgil Stokes)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 20:37:04 +0200
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <5086DA4D.4060204@tim.thechases.com>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se> <5086C156.40707@tim.thechases.com>
	<5086D13F.80006@it.uu.se> <5086DA4D.4060204@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <5086E3D0.7030501@it.uu.se>

On 23-Oct-2012 19:56, Tim Chase wrote:
> On 10/23/12 12:17, Virgil Stokes wrote:
>> On 23-Oct-2012 18:09, Tim Chase wrote:
>>>> Finally, to my question --- What is a fast way to write these
>>>> variables to an external file and then read them in
>>>> backwards?
>>> Am I missing something, or would the fairly-standard "tac"
>>> utility do the reversal you want?  It should[*] be optimized to
>>> handle on-disk files in a smart manner.
>> Not sure about "tac" --- could you provide more details on this
>> and/or a simple example of how it could be used for fast reversed
>> "reading" of a data file?
> Well, if you're reading input.txt (and assuming it's one record per
> line, separated by newlines), you can just use
>
>    tac < input.txt > backwards.txt
>
> which will create a secondary file that is the first file in reverse
> order.  Your program can then process this secondary file in-order
> (which would be backwards from your source).
>
> I might have misunderstood your difficulty, but it _sounded_ like
> you just want to inverse the order of a file.
Yes, I do wish to inverse the order,  but the "forward in time" file will be in 
binary.

--V



From cyberdicks at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 15:51:34 2012
From: cyberdicks at gmail.com (MartinD.)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 12:51:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: regex function driving me nuts
Message-ID: <0becd1f8-e760-49c1-88d6-1c11b49e203c@googlegroups.com>

Hi, 

I'm new to Python. 
Does someone has an idea what's wrong.  I tried everything. The only regex that is tested is the last one in a whole list of regex in keywords.txt
Thanks! 
Martin 


########
def checkKeywords( str, lstKeywords ):

	for regex in lstKeywords: 
		match = re.search(regex, str,re.IGNORECASE)
		# If-statement after search() tests if it succeeded
		if match:                      
			print match.group() ##just debugging
			return match.group() ## 'found!
			
	return

#########

keywords1 = [line for line in open('keywords1.txt')]
resultKeywords1 = checkKeywords("string_to_test",keywords1)
print resultKeywords1



From cousinstanley at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 16:03:39 2012
From: cousinstanley at gmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 20:03:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se> <5086C156.40707@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2677.1351012669.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k66t6q$819$1@dont-email.me>

Virgil Stokes wrote:

> Not sure about "tac" --- could you provide more details on this 
> and/or a simple example of how it could be used for fast reversed 
> "reading" of a data file ?

  tac is available as a command under linux .... 

  $ whatis tac
  tac (1) - concatenate and print files in reverse

  $ whereis tac
  tac: /usr/bin/tac /usr/bin/X11/tac /usr/share/man/man1/tac.1.gz

  $ man tac

  SYNOPSIS
    tac [OPTION]... [FILE]...

  DESCRIPTION

    Write each FILE to standard output, last line first.  

    With no FILE, or when FILE is -, read standard input.


  I only know that the  tac  command exists
  but have never used it myself ....


-- 
Stanley C. Kitching
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona



From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 16:03:47 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 21:03:47 +0100
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <901739839.1116059.1350990465261.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
References: <CAFqGZRFUk0D_xnTZ19t6pK1dfCDKXct7iNps6MT6yjVFpF+bMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<901739839.1116059.1350990465261.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qXzGO-pav3zrth40JBYNxfxF74ZDaGPnGfKnHZ37x7bYg@mail.gmail.com>

On 23 October 2012 12:07, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com>wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > Thankyou.. but my problem is different than simply joining 2 lists
> > and it is done now :)....
>
>
> A lot of people though you were asking for joining lists, you description
> was misleading.
>
> I'll take a guess: you want to flatten a list of list.
> "Nested" list comprehensions can do the trick.
>
> aList =[[1,5], [2,'a']]
> [item for sublist in aList for item in sublist]
>
> ...
> [1, 5, 2, 'a']
>
> I find it rather difficult to read though.


We have a library function for this, in the one-and-only itertools.

>>> listoflists = [list(range(x, 2*x)) for x in range(5)]
> >>> listoflists
> [[], [1], [2, 3], [3, 4, 5], [4, 5, 6, 7]]
> >>> from itertools import chain
>  >>> list(chain.from_iterable(listoflists))
> [1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 4, 5, 6, 7]


It does exactly what it says... fast and easy-to-read.
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From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 16:06:43 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 21:06:43 +0100
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qXzGO-pav3zrth40JBYNxfxF74ZDaGPnGfKnHZ37x7bYg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRFUk0D_xnTZ19t6pK1dfCDKXct7iNps6MT6yjVFpF+bMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<901739839.1116059.1350990465261.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<CAN1F8qXzGO-pav3zrth40JBYNxfxF74ZDaGPnGfKnHZ37x7bYg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qWWTAoGM_A=V8qKJ9Cp23XiqYyn3ZdeejzB4PzK5djrZw@mail.gmail.com>

On 23 October 2012 21:03, Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 23 October 2012 12:07, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com>wrote:
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> > Thankyou.. but my problem is different than simply joining 2 lists
>> > and it is done now :)....
>>
>>
>> A lot of people though you were asking for joining lists, you description
>> was misleading.
>>
>> I'll take a guess: you want to flatten a list of list.
>> "Nested" list comprehensions can do the trick.
>>
>> aList =[[1,5], [2,'a']]
>> [item for sublist in aList for item in sublist]
>>
>> ...
>> [1, 5, 2, 'a']
>>
>> I find it rather difficult to read though.
>
>
> We have a library function for this, in the one-and-only itertools.
>
> >>> listoflists = [list(range(x, 2*x)) for x in range(5)]
>> >>> listoflists
>> [[], [1], [2, 3], [3, 4, 5], [4, 5, 6, 7]]
>> >>> from itertools import chain
>>  >>> list(chain.from_iterable(listoflists))
>> [1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 4, 5, 6, 7]
>
>
> It does exactly what it says... fast and easy-to-read.


Note that I think what he really wanted is to go from

a, b, c = [list(x) for x in (range(10), range(11, 20), range(21, 30))]

to

> list(range(30))
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From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 16:08:02 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 21:08:02 +0100
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qWWTAoGM_A=V8qKJ9Cp23XiqYyn3ZdeejzB4PzK5djrZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRFUk0D_xnTZ19t6pK1dfCDKXct7iNps6MT6yjVFpF+bMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<901739839.1116059.1350990465261.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<CAN1F8qXzGO-pav3zrth40JBYNxfxF74ZDaGPnGfKnHZ37x7bYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qWWTAoGM_A=V8qKJ9Cp23XiqYyn3ZdeejzB4PzK5djrZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qVz7EbHNG5cBz_h7U=jrCp4p42cnT8mdtPuyaCEUYf63w@mail.gmail.com>

On 23 October 2012 21:06, Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 23 October 2012 21:03, Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On 23 October 2012 12:07, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com>wrote:
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> > Thankyou.. but my problem is different than simply joining 2 lists
>>> > and it is done now :)....
>>>
>>>
>>> A lot of people though you were asking for joining lists, you
>>> description was misleading.
>>>
>>> I'll take a guess: you want to flatten a list of list.
>>> "Nested" list comprehensions can do the trick.
>>>
>>> aList =[[1,5], [2,'a']]
>>> [item for sublist in aList for item in sublist]
>>>
>>> ...
>>> [1, 5, 2, 'a']
>>>
>>> I find it rather difficult to read though.
>>
>>
>> We have a library function for this, in the one-and-only itertools.
>>
>> >>> listoflists = [list(range(x, 2*x)) for x in range(5)]
>>> >>> listoflists
>>> [[], [1], [2, 3], [3, 4, 5], [4, 5, 6, 7]]
>>> >>> from itertools import chain
>>>  >>> list(chain.from_iterable(listoflists))
>>> [1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 4, 5, 6, 7]
>>
>>
>> It does exactly what it says... fast and easy-to-read.
>
>
> Note that I think what he really wanted is to go from
>
> a, b, c = [list(x) for x in (range(10), range(11, 20), range(21, 30))]
>
> to
>
>> list(range(30))
>
>
UNDO! UNDO! UNDO!

I *meant *to say:

Note that I think what he really wanted is to go from

a, b, c = [list(x) for x in (range(10), range(11, 20), range(21, 30))]

to

> [a, b, c]
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From insideshoes at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 16:10:10 2012
From: insideshoes at gmail.com (inshu chauhan)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 22:10:10 +0200
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qVz7EbHNG5cBz_h7U=jrCp4p42cnT8mdtPuyaCEUYf63w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRFUk0D_xnTZ19t6pK1dfCDKXct7iNps6MT6yjVFpF+bMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<901739839.1116059.1350990465261.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<CAN1F8qXzGO-pav3zrth40JBYNxfxF74ZDaGPnGfKnHZ37x7bYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qWWTAoGM_A=V8qKJ9Cp23XiqYyn3ZdeejzB4PzK5djrZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qVz7EbHNG5cBz_h7U=jrCp4p42cnT8mdtPuyaCEUYf63w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFqGZRE9P7RxjfR1jj316ozN39rXyWjQzz1yGThYB-vP=mKs1Q@mail.gmail.com>

ok I got it guys...

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Joshua Landau
<joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com>wrote:

>  On 23 October 2012 21:06, Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>  On 23 October 2012 21:03, Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> On 23 October 2012 12:07, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>> > Thankyou.. but my problem is different than simply joining 2 lists
>>>> > and it is done now :)....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A lot of people though you were asking for joining lists, you
>>>> description was misleading.
>>>>
>>>> I'll take a guess: you want to flatten a list of list.
>>>> "Nested" list comprehensions can do the trick.
>>>>
>>>> aList =[[1,5], [2,'a']]
>>>> [item for sublist in aList for item in sublist]
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>> [1, 5, 2, 'a']
>>>>
>>>> I find it rather difficult to read though.
>>>
>>>
>>> We have a library function for this, in the one-and-only itertools.
>>>
>>> >>> listoflists = [list(range(x, 2*x)) for x in range(5)]
>>>> >>> listoflists
>>>> [[], [1], [2, 3], [3, 4, 5], [4, 5, 6, 7]]
>>>> >>> from itertools import chain
>>>>  >>> list(chain.from_iterable(listoflists))
>>>> [1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 4, 5, 6, 7]
>>>
>>>
>>> It does exactly what it says... fast and easy-to-read.
>>
>>
>> Note that I think what he really wanted is to go from
>>
>> a, b, c = [list(x) for x in (range(10), range(11, 20), range(21, 30))]
>>
>> to
>>
>>> list(range(30))
>>
>>
> UNDO! UNDO! UNDO!
>
> I *meant *to say:
>
>  Note that I think what he really wanted is to go from
>
> a, b, c = [list(x) for x in (range(10), range(11, 20), range(21, 30))]
>
> to
>
>> [a, b, c]
>
>
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From ian at excess.org  Tue Oct 23 16:19:39 2012
From: ian at excess.org (Ian Ward)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 16:19:39 -0400
Subject: ANN: Urwid 1.1.0 - Usability and Documentation
Message-ID: <CAA3rUNd0e51hOe_qe_DcbF2mH6+QT=ZOa4CkRmzAqDyO=yH0pg@mail.gmail.com>

Announcing Urwid 1.1.0
----------------------

Urwid home page:
  http://excess.org/urwid/

Manual:
  http://excess.org/urwid/docs/

Package:
  http://pypi.python.org/pypi/urwid/1.1.0


About this release:
===================

This is a major feature release for Urwid.

The first focus for this release has been on improving the usability of
container widgets by building a common API that works on all containers.
This API allows reading and updating the focus, contents and options across
most containers.  Urwid's container widgets have grown organically over
the years and many lack an API for updating their contents at all.  These
changes deprecate a number of existing methods and attributes, but continue
to support them.  Read about the new API here:

  http://excess.org/urwid/docs/manual/widgets.html#container-widgets

The second focus has been improving Urwid's documentation.  Urwid's
Tutorial, Manual and Reference have been converted from HTML and wiki pages
to Sphinx reStructured text.  The tutorial has been largely rewritten.
It now covers many more aspects of the library including common patterns
and the new container API.  The Manual has been heavily edited and most of
the class and function docstrings have been updated to look their best in
the new Reference.  The new documentation is available here:

  http://excess.org/urwid/docs/

See "New in 1.1.0" below for other changes.


Planned changes:
================

Urwid currently supports Python versions 2.4, 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, 3.2 and 3.3.
That's just too many versions.  I plan to drop support for Python 2.4 and
2.5 in the 1.2.x series to clean up some of the Python 3 compatibility code
and start taking advantage of the futuristic language features from the
year 2008.

I will make a greater effort than usual to back port fixes to the 1.1.x
series to support users that choose to continue using old versions of
Python.


New in 1.1.0:
=============

 * New common container API: focus, focus_position, contents,
   options(), get_focus_path(), set_focus_path(), __getitem__,
   __iter__(), __reversed__() implemented across all included
   container widgets

   A full description doesn't fit here, see the Container Widgets
   section in the manual for details

 * New Sphinx-based documentation now included in source:
   Tutorial rewritten, manual revised and new reference based
   on updated docstrings (by Marco Giusti, Patrick Totzke)

 * New list walker SimpleFocusListWalker like SimpleListWalker but
   updates focus position as items are inserted or removed

 * New decoration widget WidgetDisable to disable interaction
   with the widgets it wraps

 * SelectableIcon selectable text widget used by button widgets is
   now documented (available since 0.9.9)

 * Columns widget now tries to keep column in focus visible, hiding
   columns on the left when necessary

 * Padding widget now defaults to ('relative', 100) instead of
   'pack' so that left and right parameters are more useful and more
   child widgets are supported

 * New list walker "API Version 2" that is simpler for many list
   walker uses; "API Version 1" will still continue to be supported

 * List walkers may now allow iteration from the absolute top or
   bottom of the list if they provide a positions() method

 * raw_display now erases to the end of the line with EL escape
   sequence to improve copy+paste behavior for some terminals

 * Filler now has top and bottom parameters like Padding's left and
   right parameters and accepts 'pack' instead of None as a height
   value for widgets that calculate their own number of rows

 * Pile and Columns now accepts 'pack' instead of 'flow' for widgets
   that calculate their own number of rows or columns

 * Pile and Columns now accept 'given' instead of 'fixed' for
   cases where the number of rows or columns are specified by the
   container options

 * Pile and Columns widgets now accept any iterable to their
   __init__() methods

 * Widget now has a default focus_position property that raises
   an IndexError when read to be consistent with new common container
   API

 * GridFlow now supports multiple cell widths within the same widget

 * BoxWidget, FlowWidget and FixedWidget are deprecated, instead
   use the sizing() function or _sizing attribute to specify the
   supported sizing modes for your custom widgets

 * Some new shift+arrow and numpad input sequences from RXVT and
   xterm are now recognized

 * Fix for alarms when used with a screen event loop (e.g.
   curses_display)

 * Fix for raw_display when terminal width is 1 column

 * Fixes for a Columns.get_cursor_coords() regression and a
   SelectableIcon.get_cursor_coords() bug

 * Fixes for incorrect handling of box columns in a number of
   Columns methods when that column is selectable

 * Fix for Terminal widget input handling with Python 3


About Urwid
===========

Urwid is a console UI library for Python. It features fluid interface
resizing, Unicode support, multiple text layouts, simple attribute
markup, powerful scrolling list boxes and flexible interface design.

Urwid is released under the GNU LGPL.


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Tue Oct 23 16:29:10 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 20:29:10 +0000
Subject: regex function driving me nuts
In-Reply-To: <0becd1f8-e760-49c1-88d6-1c11b49e203c@googlegroups.com>
References: <0becd1f8-e760-49c1-88d6-1c11b49e203c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741672A8B7@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

MartinD wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm new to Python.
> Does someone has an idea what's wrong.  I tried everything. The only regex that is tested is the last one in a
> whole list of regex in keywords.txt
> Thanks!
> Martin
> 
> 
> ########
> def checkKeywords( str, lstKeywords ):
> 
> 	for regex in lstKeywords:
> 		match = re.search(regex, str,re.IGNORECASE)
> 		# If-statement after search() tests if it succeeded
> 		if match:
> 			print match.group() ##just debugging
> 			return match.group() ## 'found!
> 
> 	return
> 
> #########
> 
> keywords1 = [line for line in open('keywords1.txt')]
> resultKeywords1 = checkKeywords("string_to_test",keywords1)
> print resultKeywords1
> 

Hi Martin,
It is always helpful to provide python version, operating system version, full error message,
and input/expected output for the code. Now I can tell you are using Python 2.x but 
without having any clue what is in keywords1.txt it is impossible to figure out
what the problem might be. Other than using regular expressions that is. :)

Ramit Prasad


This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 16:32:31 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 14:32:31 -0600
Subject: regex function driving me nuts
In-Reply-To: <0becd1f8-e760-49c1-88d6-1c11b49e203c@googlegroups.com>
References: <0becd1f8-e760-49c1-88d6-1c11b49e203c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=DXguiCyL+QF8_4k0GCj3aFS6SzwSpo06ktE9uPg6Etw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 1:51 PM, MartinD. <cyberdicks at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm new to Python.
> Does someone has an idea what's wrong.  I tried everything. The only regex that is tested is the last one in a whole list of regex in keywords.txt
> Thanks!
> Martin

How do you know that it's the only one being tested?  Your debugging
statement only prints one that actually matches, not each one that is
tried.

> keywords1 = [line for line in open('keywords1.txt')]

Note that each "keyword" will including the trailing newline, if any.
This is probably why you are only seeing the last keyword match:
because it is the only one without a trailing newline.

To remove the newlines, call the str.strip or str.rstrip method on
each line, or use the str.splitlines method to get the keywords:

keywords1 = open('keywords1.txt').read().splitlines()


From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 16:36:40 2012
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 22:36:40 +0200
Subject: regex function driving me nuts
In-Reply-To: <0becd1f8-e760-49c1-88d6-1c11b49e203c@googlegroups.com>
References: <0becd1f8-e760-49c1-88d6-1c11b49e203c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAHzaPEMBgVOA5haisiENa31aZtD=HHOGxpSuAfZutv722-9krA@mail.gmail.com>

2012/10/23 MartinD. <cyberdicks at gmail.com>:
> Hi,
>
> I'm new to Python.
> Does someone has an idea what's wrong.  I tried everything. The only regex that is tested is the last one in a whole list of regex in keywords.txt
> Thanks!
> Martin
>
>
> ########
> def checkKeywords( str, lstKeywords ):
>
>         for regex in lstKeywords:
>                 match = re.search(regex, str,re.IGNORECASE)
>                 # If-statement after search() tests if it succeeded
>                 if match:
>                         print match.group() ##just debugging
>                         return match.group() ## 'found!
>
>         return
>
> #########
>
> keywords1 = [line for line in open('keywords1.txt')]
> resultKeywords1 = checkKeywords("string_to_test",keywords1)
> print resultKeywords1
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Hi,
just a wild guess, as I don't have access to  containing the list of
potentially problematic regex patterns
does:
keywords1 = [line.strip() for line in open('keywords1.txt')]
possibly fix yout problem?
the lines of the file iterator also preserve newlines, which might not
be expected in your keywords, strip() removes (be default) any
starting and tryiling whitespace.

hth,
  vbr


From chess at us.ibm.com  Tue Oct 23 16:40:05 2012
From: chess at us.ibm.com (David M Chess)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 16:40:05 -0400
Subject: problem with ThreadingTCPServer Handler
In-Reply-To: <5086AB50.8090806@estudiantes.uci.cu>
References: <5086AB50.8090806@estudiantes.uci.cu>
Message-ID: <OF2E55E5A6.DAD466B4-ON85257AA0.00711494-85257AA0.00718969@us.ibm.com>

> jorge <jaorozco at estudiantes.uci.cu>

> I'm programming a server that most send a message to each client 
> connected to it and nothing else. this is obviously a base of what i 
> want to do. the thing is, I made a class wich contains the Handler class 

> for the ThreadingTCPServer and starts the server but i don't know how 
> can i access the message variable contained in the class from the 
> Handler since I have not to instance the Handler by myself.

The information about the request is in attributes of the Handler object. 
>From the socketserver docs (
http://docs.python.org/library/socketserver.html ):

RequestHandler.handle() 
This function must do all the work required to service a request. The 
default implementation does nothing. Several instance attributes are 
available to it; the request is available as self.request; the client 
address asself.client_address; and the server instance as self.server, in 
case it needs access to per-server information. 

If that's what you meant by "the message variable contained in the class". 
 

If, on the other hand, you meant that you want to pass some specific data 
into the handler about what it's supposed to be doing, I've generally 
stashed that in the server, since the handler can see the server via 
self.server.

DC
 
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From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 16:51:41 2012
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 13:51:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: problem with ThreadingTCPServer Handler
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2666.1351003524.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2666.1351003524.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <caf71039-d50d-4e12-947d-035ab0282ac3@googlegroups.com>

According to the docs (http://docs.python.org/library/socketserver.html#requesthandler-objects) there's self.server available.


From miki.tebeka at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 16:51:41 2012
From: miki.tebeka at gmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 13:51:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: problem with ThreadingTCPServer Handler
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2666.1351003524.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2666.1351003524.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <caf71039-d50d-4e12-947d-035ab0282ac3@googlegroups.com>

According to the docs (http://docs.python.org/library/socketserver.html#requesthandler-objects) there's self.server available.


From jaorozco at estudiantes.uci.cu  Tue Oct 23 17:10:25 2012
From: jaorozco at estudiantes.uci.cu (jorge)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 17:10:25 -0400
Subject: problem with ThreadingTCPServer Handler
In-Reply-To: <caf71039-d50d-4e12-947d-035ab0282ac3@googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.2666.1351003524.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<caf71039-d50d-4e12-947d-035ab0282ac3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <508707C1.306@estudiantes.uci.cu>

Tanks a lot, it was really helpful

El 23/10/12 16:51, Miki Tebeka escribi?:
> According to the docs (http://docs.python.org/library/socketserver.html#requesthandler-objects) there's self.server available.


10mo. ANIVERSARIO DE LA CREACION DE LA UNIVERSIDAD DE LAS CIENCIAS INFORMATICAS...
CONECTADOS AL FUTURO, CONECTADOS A LA REVOLUCION

http://www.uci.cu
http://www.facebook.com/universidad.uci
http://www.flickr.com/photos/universidad_uci


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 17:50:55 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 17:50:55 -0400
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJV6feUL0gTPC==3fp3Wq8zvRXgoyhVaUYnZNtMfF8qpLw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se> wrote:
> I am working with some rather large data files (>100GB) that contain time
> series data. The data (t_k,y(t_k)), k = 0,1,...,N are stored in ASCII
> format. I perform various types of processing on these data (e.g. moving
> median, moving average, and Kalman-filter, Kalman-smoother) in a sequential
> manner and only a small number of these data need be stored in RAM when
> being processed. When performing Kalman-filtering (forward in time pass, k =
> 0,1,...,N) I need to save to an external file several variables (e.g. 11*32
> bytes) for each (t_k, y(t_k)). These are inputs to the Kalman-smoother
> (backward in time pass, k = N,N-1,...,0). Thus, I will need to input these
> variables saved to an external file from the forward pass, in reverse order
> --- from last written to first written.
>
> Finally, to my question --- What is a fast way to write these variables to
> an external file and then read them in backwards?

Don't forget to use timeit for an average OS utilization.

I'd suggest two list comprehensions for now, until I've reviewed it some more:

forward =  ["%i = %s" % (i,chr(i)) for i in range(33,126)]
backward = ["%i = %s" % (i,chr(i)) for i in range(126,32,-1)]

for var in forward:
	print var

for var in backward:
	print var

You could also use a dict, and iterate through a straight loop that
assigned a front and back to a dict_one =  {0 : [0.100], 1 : [1.99]}
and the iterate through the loop, and call the first or second in the
dict's var list for frontwards , or backwards calls.


But there might be faster implementations, depending on other
function's usage of certain lower level functions.


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From SeeWebsiteToContactMe at semitwist.com  Tue Oct 23 18:28:31 2012
From: SeeWebsiteToContactMe at semitwist.com (Nick Sabalausky)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 18:28:31 -0400
Subject: SQLAlchemy: How to do Table Reflection and MySQL?
References: <20121020192416.000023b6@unknown>
	<26471ad3-2bcd-46ed-a697-ae768eb5fd3b@m4g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20121023182831.000038ae@unknown>

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 14:35:23 -0700 (PDT)
darnold <darnold992000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> i'm not brave enough to dig too deeply into SQLAlchemy, but maybe this
> will help? :
> 
> http://kashififtikhar.blogspot.com/2010/07/using-sqlalchemy-reflection-with-pylons.html
> 
> that came up from googling "sqlalchemy table reflection tutorial".

Thanks, your view of Google seems to be far better tailored for Python
than mine is, that doesn't come up for me anywhere on the first five
pages of results for that query.

Unfortunately the info on that page doesn't seem to work for me:

----------------------------------
from sqlalchemy import *
from sqlalchemy.orm import sessionmaker

engine = create_engine(my connection string)
meta = MetaData()
meta.bind = engine
meta.reflect()

Session = sessionmaker(bind=engine)
session = Session()

res = session.query(user).filter(user.name=="bert").first()
print res.name
----------------------------------

That just gives me:

NameError: name 'user' is not defined

(And yes, the code given on that page to print out the table info
*does* indicate a table named 'user' was found.)

I also tried this which also fails:

res =
session.query(meta.tables["user"]).filter(meta.tables["user"].name=="bert").first()

sqlalchemy.exc.ArgumentError: filter() argument must be of type
sqlalchemy.sql.ClauseElement or string

The page you linked to appears to get around the matter by manually
setting up tables filled with the reflected info, but that seems to
defeat much of the point for me. I may as well just set up the tables
manually without the reflection, which is what I'll probably do.

Maybe I just misunderstood what was meant in the SQLAlchemy docs here?:

"but note that SA can also ?import? whole sets of Table objects
automatically from an existing database (this process is called table
reflection)."  --
http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/rel_0_7/core/tutorial.html

It said that but then didn't say how and didn't link to any info on how.



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Oct 23 18:34:23 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 23 Oct 2012 22:34:23 GMT
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2582.1350811250.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5083c7da$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2588.1350819797.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508448c6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2601.1350850942.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5084e819$0$29897$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmphN0LEK9j+gMizZFtkcyB5S9LSdSZgQSmbxG4C1cXnsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidmRVReAS2r18rNyn9JNfZyo_8Q3JNnBoXpaOs2bgZ8Qkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<v4tb88pgp5k1me6p8841qtk7h1g31vm90j@invalid.netcom.com>
	<mailman.2675.1351011043.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <50871b6e$0$30000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:50:11 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:

>> if someone is foolish enough to use the
>>
>>         from xyz import *
>>
>> notation...
> 
> It's already a SyntaxError to use a wildcard import anywhere other than
> the module level, so its use can only affect global variables.

In Python 3.x. 

In Python 2.x, which includes the most recent version of three of the 
four "big implementations" (PyPy, Jython, IronPython) it is still legal, 
at least in theory.

I haven't tested PyPy, but IronPython 2.6 allows wildcard imports inside 
functions without even a warning. Bizarrely, Jython 2.5 *appears* to 
allow them with only a warning, but they don't take:

steve at runes:~$ jython
Jython 2.5.1+ (Release_2_5_1, Aug 4 2010, 07:18:19)
[OpenJDK Client VM (Sun Microsystems Inc.)] on java1.6.0_18
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> def test():
...     from math import *
...     return cos
...
<stdin>:2: SyntaxWarning: import * only allowed at module level
>>> test()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in test
NameError: global name 'cos' is not defined


So, legal or not, they're definitely something you want to avoid.


-- 
Steven


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 18:36:33 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 18:36:33 -0400
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJV6feUL0gTPC==3fp3Wq8zvRXgoyhVaUYnZNtMfF8qpLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
	<CA+vVgJV6feUL0gTPC==3fp3Wq8zvRXgoyhVaUYnZNtMfF8qpLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJWnAThHhD4cUJzXLGdVojCNA1oV_qKYwa+7UsEqS=x7XQ@mail.gmail.com>

> Don't forget to use timeit for an average OS utilization.
>
> I'd suggest two list comprehensions for now, until I've reviewed it some more:
>
> forward =  ["%i = %s" % (i,chr(i)) for i in range(33,126)]
> backward = ["%i = %s" % (i,chr(i)) for i in range(126,32,-1)]
>
> for var in forward:
>         print var
>
> for var in backward:
>         print var
>
> You could also use a dict, and iterate through a straight loop that
> assigned a front and back to a dict_one =  {0 : [0.100], 1 : [1.99]}
> and the iterate through the loop, and call the first or second in the
> dict's var list for frontwards , or backwards calls.
>
>
> But there might be faster implementations, depending on other
> function's usage of certain lower level functions.
>

Missed the part about it being a file. Use:

forward =  ["%i = %s" % (i,chr(i)) for i in range(33,126)]
backward = ["%i = %s" % (i,chr(i)) for i in range(126,32,-1)]

print forward,backward




-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Tue Oct 23 18:42:08 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 22:42:08 +0000
Subject: SQLAlchemy: How to do Table Reflection and MySQL?
In-Reply-To: <20121023182831.000038ae@unknown>
References: <20121020192416.000023b6@unknown>
	<26471ad3-2bcd-46ed-a697-ae768eb5fd3b@m4g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
	<20121023182831.000038ae@unknown>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741672AC0F@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 14:35:23 -0700 (PDT)
> darnold <darnold992000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > i'm not brave enough to dig too deeply into SQLAlchemy, but maybe this
> > will help? :
> >
> > http://kashififtikhar.blogspot.com/2010/07/using-sqlalchemy-reflection-with-pylons.html
> >
> > that came up from googling "sqlalchemy table reflection tutorial".
> 
> Thanks, your view of Google seems to be far better tailored for Python
> than mine is, that doesn't come up for me anywhere on the first five
> pages of results for that query.
> 
> Unfortunately the info on that page doesn't seem to work for me:
> 
> ----------------------------------
> from sqlalchemy import *
> from sqlalchemy.orm import sessionmaker
> 
> engine = create_engine(my connection string)
> meta = MetaData()
> meta.bind = engine
> meta.reflect()
> 
> Session = sessionmaker(bind=engine)
> session = Session()
> 
> res = session.query(user).filter(user.name=="bert").first()
> print res.name
> ----------------------------------
> 
> That just gives me:
> 
> NameError: name 'user' is not defined
> 
> (And yes, the code given on that page to print out the table info
> *does* indicate a table named 'user' was found.)

This does not seem to be a SQLAlchemy problem. Instead it seems
there is not a variable called `name`. If you define 
the appropriate user it does it work? (From that page it seems 
like user should be a blank class like the following).

class user(object): pass

> 
> I also tried this which also fails:
> 
> res =
> session.query(meta.tables["user"]).filter(meta.tables["user"].name=="bert").first()
> 
> sqlalchemy.exc.ArgumentError: filter() argument must be of type
> sqlalchemy.sql.ClauseElement or string
> 
> The page you linked to appears to get around the matter by manually
> setting up tables filled with the reflected info, but that seems to
> defeat much of the point for me. I may as well just set up the tables
> manually without the reflection, which is what I'll probably do.
> 
> Maybe I just misunderstood what was meant in the SQLAlchemy docs here?:
> 
> "but note that SA can also ?import? whole sets of Table objects
> automatically from an existing database (this process is called table
> reflection)."  --
> http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/rel_0_7/core/tutorial.html
> 
> It said that but then didn't say how and didn't link to any info on how.

Ramit Prasad



This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  

From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 18:49:47 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 18:49:47 -0400
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJWnAThHhD4cUJzXLGdVojCNA1oV_qKYwa+7UsEqS=x7XQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
	<CA+vVgJV6feUL0gTPC==3fp3Wq8zvRXgoyhVaUYnZNtMfF8qpLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJWnAThHhD4cUJzXLGdVojCNA1oV_qKYwa+7UsEqS=x7XQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJUNOZD3vBVFDXvXzdXb=c5THQG+B5dSOp_uF1nqDHhPug@mail.gmail.com>

> Missed the part about it being a file. Use:
>
> forward =  ["%i = %s" % (i,chr(i)) for i in range(33,126)]
> backward = ["%i = %s" % (i,chr(i)) for i in range(126,32,-1)]
>
> print forward,backward
>
This was a dud, let me rework it real quick, I deleted what i had, and
accidentally wrote the wrong function.

>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> David Hutto
> CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com



-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Oct 23 18:53:42 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 23 Oct 2012 22:53:42 GMT
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
	<mailman.2694.1351029058.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <50871ff6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 17:50:55 -0400, David Hutto wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se> wrote:
>> I am working with some rather large data files (>100GB) 
[...]
>> Finally, to my question --- What is a fast way to write these variables
>> to an external file and then read them in backwards?
> 
> Don't forget to use timeit for an average OS utilization.

Given that the data files are larger than 100 gigabytes, the time 
required to process each file is likely to be in hours, not microseconds. 
That being the case, timeit is the wrong tool for the job, it is 
optimized for timings tiny code snippets. You could use it, of course, 
but the added inconvenience doesn't gain you any added accuracy.

Here's a neat context manager that makes timing long-running code simple:


http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577896



> I'd suggest two list comprehensions for now, until I've reviewed it some
> more:

I would be very surprised if the poster will be able to fit 100 gigabytes 
of data into even a single list comprehension, let alone two.

This is a classic example of why the old external processing algorithms 
of the 1960s and 70s will never be obsolete. No matter how much memory 
you have, there will always be times when you want to process more data 
than you can fit into memory.



-- 
Steven


From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 18:57:44 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 15:57:44 -0700
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <50871ff6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
	<mailman.2694.1351029058.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<50871ff6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <724DDA67-8B4F-4E12-A359-85E3AC3B37EA@gmail.com>

> This is a classic example of why the old external processing algorithms 
> of the 1960s and 70s will never be obsolete. No matter how much memory 
> you have, there will always be times when you want to process more data 
> than you can fit into memory.


But surely nobody will *ever* need more than 640k?

Right?

Demian Brecht
@demianbrecht
http://demianbrecht.github.com






From SeeWebsiteToContactMe at semitwist.com  Tue Oct 23 19:15:16 2012
From: SeeWebsiteToContactMe at semitwist.com (Nick Sabalausky)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 19:15:16 -0400
Subject: SQLAlchemy: How to do Table Reflection and MySQL?
References: <20121020192416.000023b6@unknown>
	<26471ad3-2bcd-46ed-a697-ae768eb5fd3b@m4g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
	<20121023182831.000038ae@unknown>
	<mailman.2696.1351032152.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20121023191516.000021a2@unknown>

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 22:42:08 +0000
"Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com> wrote:

> Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> > On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 14:35:23 -0700 (PDT)
> > darnold <darnold992000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > i'm not brave enough to dig too deeply into SQLAlchemy, but maybe
> > > this will help? :
> > >
> > > http://kashififtikhar.blogspot.com/2010/07/using-sqlalchemy-reflection-with-pylons.html
> > >
> > > that came up from googling "sqlalchemy table reflection tutorial".
> > 
> > Thanks, your view of Google seems to be far better tailored for
> > Python than mine is, that doesn't come up for me anywhere on the
> > first five pages of results for that query.
> > 
> > Unfortunately the info on that page doesn't seem to work for me:
> > 
> > ----------------------------------
> > from sqlalchemy import *
> > from sqlalchemy.orm import sessionmaker
> > 
> > engine = create_engine(my connection string)
> > meta = MetaData()
> > meta.bind = engine
> > meta.reflect()
> > 
> > Session = sessionmaker(bind=engine)
> > session = Session()
> > 
> > res = session.query(user).filter(user.name=="bert").first()
> > print res.name
> > ----------------------------------
> > 
> > That just gives me:
> > 
> > NameError: name 'user' is not defined
> > 
> > (And yes, the code given on that page to print out the table info
> > *does* indicate a table named 'user' was found.)
> 
> This does not seem to be a SQLAlchemy problem. Instead it seems
> there is not a variable called `name`. 

Oops, yea, it's supposed to be:

    meta.tables["user"].columns["name"]

Not:

    meta.tables["user"].name

Works now, thanks all.



From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 19:19:28 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 19:19:28 -0400
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJUNOZD3vBVFDXvXzdXb=c5THQG+B5dSOp_uF1nqDHhPug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
	<CA+vVgJV6feUL0gTPC==3fp3Wq8zvRXgoyhVaUYnZNtMfF8qpLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJWnAThHhD4cUJzXLGdVojCNA1oV_qKYwa+7UsEqS=x7XQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUNOZD3vBVFDXvXzdXb=c5THQG+B5dSOp_uF1nqDHhPug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJV2A7oJQCRGFypqsfYXHNVxSuhWJUhCF+FM4NWnXanGcA@mail.gmail.com>

Whether this is fast enough, or not, I don't know:


filename = "data_file.txt"
f = open(filename, 'r')
forward =  [line.rstrip('\n') for line in f.readlines()]
backward =  [line.rstrip('\n') for line in reversed(forward)]
f.close()
print forward, "\n\n", "********************\n\n", backward, "\n"


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 19:24:34 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 17:24:34 -0600
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
In-Reply-To: <50871b6e$0$30000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2582.1350811250.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5083c7da$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2588.1350819797.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508448c6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2601.1350850942.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5084e819$0$29897$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmphN0LEK9j+gMizZFtkcyB5S9LSdSZgQSmbxG4C1cXnsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidmRVReAS2r18rNyn9JNfZyo_8Q3JNnBoXpaOs2bgZ8Qkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<v4tb88pgp5k1me6p8841qtk7h1g31vm90j@invalid.netcom.com>
	<mailman.2675.1351011043.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<50871b6e$0$30000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkW9D3NA_AYeJ11+ZFm=Z3YYsGjcawviryZ=pDKcpFSrA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:50:11 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:
>
>>> if someone is foolish enough to use the
>>>
>>>         from xyz import *
>>>
>>> notation...
>>
>> It's already a SyntaxError to use a wildcard import anywhere other than
>> the module level, so its use can only affect global variables.
>
> In Python 3.x.
>
> In Python 2.x, which includes the most recent version of three of the
> four "big implementations" (PyPy, Jython, IronPython) it is still legal,
> at least in theory.

If we're talking about making changes to the language, then we're
clearly talking about Python 3.x and beyond.  There are no more major
releases planned for 2.x.


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 19:34:15 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 19:34:15 -0400
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <50871ff6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
	<mailman.2694.1351029058.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<50871ff6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJUwQkCOtD9hDkGaO79j8cxU3=GRr9B_oPfSpu6E7cjpsA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 17:50:55 -0400, David Hutto wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se> wrote:
>>> I am working with some rather large data files (>100GB)
> [...]
>>> Finally, to my question --- What is a fast way to write these variables
>>> to an external file and then read them in backwards?
>>
>> Don't forget to use timeit for an average OS utilization.
>
> Given that the data files are larger than 100 gigabytes, the time
> required to process each file is likely to be in hours, not microseconds.
> That being the case, timeit is the wrong tool for the job, it is
> optimized for timings tiny code snippets. You could use it, of course,
> but the added inconvenience doesn't gain you any added accuracy.

It depends on the end result, and the fact that if the iterations
themselves are about the same time, then just using a segment of the
iterations could be scaled down, and a full run might be worth it, if
you have a second computer running optimization.

>
> Here's a neat context manager that makes timing long-running code simple:
>
>
> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577896


I'll test this out for big O notation later. For the OP:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_O_notation





>
>
>
>> I'd suggest two list comprehensions for now, until I've reviewed it some
>> more:
>
> I would be very surprised if the poster will be able to fit 100 gigabytes
> of data into even a single list comprehension, let alone two.
Again, these can be scaled depending on the operations of the function
in question, and the average time of aforementioned function(s)

>
> This is a classic example of why the old external processing algorithms
> of the 1960s and 70s will never be obsolete. No matter how much memory
> you have, there will always be times when you want to process more data
> than you can fit into memory

This is a common misconception. You can engineer a device that
accommodates this if it's a direct experimental necessity.
>

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From emile at fenx.com  Tue Oct 23 19:35:40 2012
From: emile at fenx.com (emile)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 16:35:40 -0700
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJV2A7oJQCRGFypqsfYXHNVxSuhWJUhCF+FM4NWnXanGcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>	<CA+vVgJV6feUL0gTPC==3fp3Wq8zvRXgoyhVaUYnZNtMfF8qpLw@mail.gmail.com>	<CA+vVgJWnAThHhD4cUJzXLGdVojCNA1oV_qKYwa+7UsEqS=x7XQ@mail.gmail.com>	<CA+vVgJUNOZD3vBVFDXvXzdXb=c5THQG+B5dSOp_uF1nqDHhPug@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJV2A7oJQCRGFypqsfYXHNVxSuhWJUhCF+FM4NWnXanGcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k679kb$rs1$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/23/2012 04:19 PM, David Hutto wrote:
> Whether this is fast enough, or not, I don't know:

well, the OP's original post started with
   "I am working with some rather large data files (>100GB)..."

> filename = "data_file.txt"
> f = open(filename, 'r')
> forward =  [line.rstrip('\n') for line in f.readlines()]

f.readlines() will be big(!) and have overhead... and forward results in 
something again as big.

> backward =  [line.rstrip('\n') for line in reversed(forward)]

and defining backward looks to me to require space to build backward and 
hold reversed(forward)

So, let's see, at that point in time (building backward) you've got
probably somewhere close to 400-500Gb in memory.

My guess -- probably not so fast.  Thrashing is sure to be a factor on 
all but machines I'll never have a chance to work on.


> f.close()
> print forward, "\n\n", "********************\n\n", backward, "\n"


It's good to retain context.

Emile



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Oct 23 19:46:26 2012
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 16:46:26 -0700
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se> <5086C156.40707@tim.thechases.com>
	<5086D13F.80006@it.uu.se> <5086DA4D.4060204@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2683.1351018926.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xr4ooah0t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se> writes:
> Yes, I do wish to inverse the order,  but the "forward in time" file
> will be in binary.

I really think it will be simplest to just write the file in forward
order, then use mmap to read it one record at a time.  It might be
possible to squeeze out a little more performance with reordering tricks
but that's the first thing to try.


From d at davea.name  Tue Oct 23 19:46:57 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 19:46:57 -0400
Subject: Getting a TimedRotatingFileHandler not to put two dates in the
	same file?
In-Reply-To: <OFF42E9E1E.D755EB22-ON85257AA0.00534D0A-85257AA0.005487C9@us.ibm.com>
References: <OFF42E9E1E.D755EB22-ON85257AA0.00534D0A-85257AA0.005487C9@us.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <50872C71.1080105@davea.name>

On 10/23/2012 11:23 AM, David M Chess wrote:
> We have a TimedRotatingFileHandler with when='midnight'

You give us no clue what's in this class, or how it comes up with the
filenames used.

> . 
>
> This works great, splitting the log information across files by date, as 
> long as the process is actually up at midnight.
>
> But now the users have noticed that if the process isn't up at midnight, 
> they can end up with lines from two (or I guess potentially more) dates in 
> the same log file.
>
> Is there some way to fix this, either with cleverer arguments into the 
> TimedRotatingFileHandler, or by some plausible subclassing of it or its 
> superclass?

Why not use the date itself to derive the filename?  And check whether
the date has changed since the last update, and if so, close and
reopen.  Midnight is irrelevant.

> Or am I misinterpreting the symptoms somehow?
>
> Tx much!
> DC
>
>

-- 

DaveA



From cyberdicks at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 19:51:11 2012
From: cyberdicks at gmail.com (cyberdicks at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 16:51:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: regex function driving me nuts
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2690.1351024603.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <0becd1f8-e760-49c1-88d6-1c11b49e203c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2690.1351024603.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5d6481e3-b961-4830-9a25-4668b951475b@googlegroups.com>

Stripping the line did it !!!
Thank you very much to all !!! 
Cheers! :-) 
Martin 


Le mardi 23 octobre 2012 16:36:44 UTC-4, Vlastimil Brom a ?crit?:
> 2012/10/23 MartinD. 
> 
> > Hi,
> 
> >
> 
> > I'm new to Python.
> 
> > Does someone has an idea what's wrong.  I tried everything. The only regex that is tested is the last one in a whole list of regex in keywords.txt
> 
> > Thanks!
> 
> > Martin
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > ########
> 
> > def checkKeywords( str, lstKeywords ):
> 
> >
> 
> >         for regex in lstKeywords:
> 
> >                 match = re.search(regex, str,re.IGNORECASE)
> 
> >                 # If-statement after search() tests if it succeeded
> 
> >                 if match:
> 
> >                         print match.group() ##just debugging
> 
> >                         return match.group() ## 'found!
> 
> >
> 
> >         return
> 
> >
> 
> > #########
> 
> >
> 
> > keywords1 = [line for line in open('keywords1.txt')]
> 
> > resultKeywords1 = checkKeywords("string_to_test",keywords1)
> 
> > print resultKeywords1
> 
> >
> 
> > --
> 
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> just a wild guess, as I don't have access to  containing the list of
> 
> potentially problematic regex patterns
> 
> does:
> 
> keywords1 = [line.strip() for line in open('keywords1.txt')]
> 
> possibly fix yout problem?
> 
> the lines of the file iterator also preserve newlines, which might not
> 
> be expected in your keywords, strip() removes (be default) any
> 
> starting and tryiling whitespace.
> 
> 
> 
> hth,
> 
>   vbr


From cyberdicks at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 19:51:11 2012
From: cyberdicks at gmail.com (cyberdicks at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 16:51:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: regex function driving me nuts
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2690.1351024603.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <0becd1f8-e760-49c1-88d6-1c11b49e203c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2690.1351024603.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5d6481e3-b961-4830-9a25-4668b951475b@googlegroups.com>

Stripping the line did it !!!
Thank you very much to all !!! 
Cheers! :-) 
Martin 


Le mardi 23 octobre 2012 16:36:44 UTC-4, Vlastimil Brom a ?crit?:
> 2012/10/23 MartinD. 
> 
> > Hi,
> 
> >
> 
> > I'm new to Python.
> 
> > Does someone has an idea what's wrong.  I tried everything. The only regex that is tested is the last one in a whole list of regex in keywords.txt
> 
> > Thanks!
> 
> > Martin
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > ########
> 
> > def checkKeywords( str, lstKeywords ):
> 
> >
> 
> >         for regex in lstKeywords:
> 
> >                 match = re.search(regex, str,re.IGNORECASE)
> 
> >                 # If-statement after search() tests if it succeeded
> 
> >                 if match:
> 
> >                         print match.group() ##just debugging
> 
> >                         return match.group() ## 'found!
> 
> >
> 
> >         return
> 
> >
> 
> > #########
> 
> >
> 
> > keywords1 = [line for line in open('keywords1.txt')]
> 
> > resultKeywords1 = checkKeywords("string_to_test",keywords1)
> 
> > print resultKeywords1
> 
> >
> 
> > --
> 
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> just a wild guess, as I don't have access to  containing the list of
> 
> potentially problematic regex patterns
> 
> does:
> 
> keywords1 = [line.strip() for line in open('keywords1.txt')]
> 
> possibly fix yout problem?
> 
> the lines of the file iterator also preserve newlines, which might not
> 
> be expected in your keywords, strip() removes (be default) any
> 
> starting and tryiling whitespace.
> 
> 
> 
> hth,
> 
>   vbr


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 20:01:36 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 20:01:36 -0400
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <k679kb$rs1$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
	<CA+vVgJV6feUL0gTPC==3fp3Wq8zvRXgoyhVaUYnZNtMfF8qpLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJWnAThHhD4cUJzXLGdVojCNA1oV_qKYwa+7UsEqS=x7XQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUNOZD3vBVFDXvXzdXb=c5THQG+B5dSOp_uF1nqDHhPug@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJV2A7oJQCRGFypqsfYXHNVxSuhWJUhCF+FM4NWnXanGcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<k679kb$rs1$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJV=ZD=nXjPyBU6G2T4R3-o98am7CdeANcN+56PHanA=Cg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 7:35 PM, emile <emile at fenx.com> wrote:
> On 10/23/2012 04:19 PM, David Hutto wrote:
>>
>> Whether this is fast enough, or not, I don't know:
>
>
> well, the OP's original post started with
>   "I am working with some rather large data files (>100GB)..."

Well, is this a dedicated system, and one that they have the budget to upgrade?

Data files have some sort of parsing, unless it's one huge dict, or
list, so there has to be an average size to the parse.

So big O notation should begin to refine without a full file.

>
>
>> filename = "data_file.txt"
>> f = open(filename, 'r')
>> forward =  [line.rstrip('\n') for line in f.readlines()]
>
>
> f.readlines() will be big(!) and have overhead... and forward results in
> something again as big.
>
Not if an average can be taken, and then refined as the actual gigs
are being iterated through.

>
>> backward =  [line.rstrip('\n') for line in reversed(forward)]
>
>
> and defining backward looks to me to require space to build backward and
> hold reversed(forward)
>
> So, let's see, at that point in time (building backward) you've got
> probably somewhere close to 400-500Gb in memory.
>
> My guess -- probably not so fast.  Thrashing is sure to be a factor on all
> but machines I'll never have a chance to work on.

But does the OP have access? They never stated their hardware, and
upgradable budget.

>
>
>> f.close()
>> print forward, "\n\n", "********************\n\n", backward, "\n"
>
>
>
> It's good to retain context.

Trying to practice good form ;).


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 20:03:59 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 20:03:59 -0400
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJV=ZD=nXjPyBU6G2T4R3-o98am7CdeANcN+56PHanA=Cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
	<CA+vVgJV6feUL0gTPC==3fp3Wq8zvRXgoyhVaUYnZNtMfF8qpLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJWnAThHhD4cUJzXLGdVojCNA1oV_qKYwa+7UsEqS=x7XQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUNOZD3vBVFDXvXzdXb=c5THQG+B5dSOp_uF1nqDHhPug@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJV2A7oJQCRGFypqsfYXHNVxSuhWJUhCF+FM4NWnXanGcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<k679kb$rs1$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CA+vVgJV=ZD=nXjPyBU6G2T4R3-o98am7CdeANcN+56PHanA=Cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJW_JgTTa23LKsd-f5-FKWJa5yoeemN6zvajuS87c3cB6g@mail.gmail.com>

> Data files have some sort of parsing, unless it's one huge dict, or
> list, so there has to be an average size to the parse.
>
Not meaning the dict, or list isn't parsed, but that the file should
be have parsable areas.

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Oct 23 20:04:14 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Oct 2012 00:04:14 GMT
Subject: A desperate lunge for on-topic-ness
References: <mailman.2582.1350811250.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5083c7da$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2588.1350819797.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508448c6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2601.1350850942.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5084e819$0$29897$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmphN0LEK9j+gMizZFtkcyB5S9LSdSZgQSmbxG4C1cXnsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidmRVReAS2r18rNyn9JNfZyo_8Q3JNnBoXpaOs2bgZ8Qkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<v4tb88pgp5k1me6p8841qtk7h1g31vm90j@invalid.netcom.com>
	<mailman.2675.1351011043.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<50871b6e$0$30000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2700.1351034706.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5087307e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 17:24:34 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:50:11 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:
>>
>>>> if someone is foolish enough to use the
>>>>
>>>>         from xyz import *
>>>>
>>>> notation...
>>>
>>> It's already a SyntaxError to use a wildcard import anywhere other
>>> than the module level, so its use can only affect global variables.
>>
>> In Python 3.x.
>>
>> In Python 2.x, which includes the most recent version of three of the
>> four "big implementations" (PyPy, Jython, IronPython) it is still
>> legal, at least in theory.
> 
> If we're talking about making changes to the language, then we're
> clearly talking about Python 3.x and beyond.  There are no more major
> releases planned for 2.x.

In what way does "it is ALREADY a SyntaxError" [emphasis added] refer to 
making future changes to the language? :)

My point is that for probably 80% or more of Python users, it is not the 
case that wildcard imports in functions are already a syntax error. 
Anyone using CPython 2.x, PyPy, Jython or IronPython have such a syntax 
error to look forward to in the future, but not now. Until then, they 
have to deal with syntax warnings, implementation-dependent behaviour, 
and as far as I can see, an outright language bug in Jython, but no 
syntax errors.


-- 
Steven


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 20:06:13 2012
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 01:06:13 +0100
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxRRSwV=A9Sx6odkpG2wOYwito7=OD6YPatcAutoBuAcgw@mail.gmail.com>

On 23 October 2012 15:31, Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se> wrote:
> I am working with some rather large data files (>100GB) that contain time
> series data. The data (t_k,y(t_k)), k = 0,1,...,N are stored in ASCII
> format. I perform various types of processing on these data (e.g. moving
> median, moving average, and Kalman-filter, Kalman-smoother) in a sequential
> manner and only a small number of these data need be stored in RAM when
> being processed. When performing Kalman-filtering (forward in time pass, k =
> 0,1,...,N) I need to save to an external file several variables (e.g. 11*32
> bytes) for each (t_k, y(t_k)). These are inputs to the Kalman-smoother
> (backward in time pass, k = N,N-1,...,0). Thus, I will need to input these
> variables saved to an external file from the forward pass, in reverse order
> --- from last written to first written.
>
> Finally, to my question --- What is a fast way to write these variables to
> an external file and then read them in backwards?

You mentioned elsewhere that you are using numpy. I'll assume that the
data you want to read/write are numpy arrays.

Numpy arrays can be written very efficiently in binary form using
tofile/fromfile:

>>> import numpy
>>> a = numpy.array([1, 2, 5], numpy.int64)
>>> a
array([1, 2, 5])
>>> with open('data.bin', 'wb') as f:
...   a.tofile(f)
...

You can then reload the array with:

>>> with open('data.bin', 'rb') as f:
...   a2 = numpy.fromfile(f, numpy.int64)
...
>>> a2
array([1, 2, 5])

Numpy arrays can be reversed before writing or after reading using;

>>> a2
array([1, 2, 5])
>>> a2[::-1]
array([5, 2, 1])

Assuming you wrote the file forwards you can make an iterator to yield
the file in chunks backwards like so (untested):

def read_backwards(f, dtype, chunksize=1024 ** 2):
    dtype = numpy.dtype(dtype)
    nbytes = chunksize * dtype.itemsize
    f.seek(0, 2)
    fpos = f.tell()
    while fpos > nbytes:
        f.seek(fpos, 0)
        yield numpy.fromfile(f, dtype, chunksize)[::-1]
        fpos -= nbytes
    yield numpy.fromfile(f, dtype)[::-1]


Oscar


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From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Oct 23 20:30:54 2012
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 19:30:54 -0500
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <5086E3D0.7030501@it.uu.se>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
	<5086C156.40707@tim.thechases.com>	<5086D13F.80006@it.uu.se>
	<5086DA4D.4060204@tim.thechases.com> <5086E3D0.7030501@it.uu.se>
Message-ID: <508736BE.6010603@tim.thechases.com>

On 10/23/12 13:37, Virgil Stokes wrote:
> Yes, I do wish to inverse the order,  but the "forward in time"
> file will be in binary.

Your original post said:

> The data (t_k,y(t_k)), k = 0,1,...,N are stored in ASCII format

making it hard to know what sort of data is in this file.

So I guess it would help to have some sample data to work with, even
if it's just some dummy data and a raw processing loop without doing
anything inside it.  Something like the output of either of these

  $ xxd forward_data.txt | head -50 > forward_head.txt
  $ od forward_data.txt | head -50 > forward_head.txt

plus a basic loop to show how you're extracting the values:

  for line in file("forward_head.txt"):
    data1, data2, data3 = process(line)

and how you want to reverse over them:

  for line in file("reversed.txt"):
    if same_processing_as_forward_source:
      data1, data2, data3 = process(line)
    else:
      data1, data2, data3 = other_process(line)

or do you want something more like

  for line in super_reverse_magic(file("forward_head.txt")):
    data1, data2, data3 = process(line)

?

-tkc





From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 22:29:09 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 22:29:09 -0400
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <CAHVvXxRRSwV=A9Sx6odkpG2wOYwito7=OD6YPatcAutoBuAcgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
	<CAHVvXxRRSwV=A9Sx6odkpG2wOYwito7=OD6YPatcAutoBuAcgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJVrmHtQT5MKoszSnsZd_FPAO_p=bMTUik6G=yoqeUDAHw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 8:06 PM, Oscar Benjamin
<oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 23 October 2012 15:31, Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se> wrote:
>> I am working with some rather large data files (>100GB) that contain time
>> series data. The data (t_k,y(t_k)), k = 0,1,...,N are stored in ASCII
>> format. I perform various types of processing on these data (e.g. moving
>> median, moving average, and Kalman-filter, Kalman-smoother) in a sequential
>> manner and only a small number of these data need be stored in RAM when
>> being processed. When performing Kalman-filtering (forward in time pass, k =
>> 0,1,...,N) I need to save to an external file several variables (e.g. 11*32
>> bytes) for each (t_k, y(t_k)). These are inputs to the Kalman-smoother
>> (backward in time pass, k = N,N-1,...,0). Thus, I will need to input these
>> variables saved to an external file from the forward pass, in reverse order
>> --- from last written to first written.
>>
>> Finally, to my question --- What is a fast way to write these variables to
>> an external file and then read them in backwards?
>
> You mentioned elsewhere that you are using numpy. I'll assume that the
> data you want to read/write are numpy arrays.

If that is the case always timeit. The following is an example of 3
functions, with repetitions of time that give an average:

import timeit
#3 dimensional matrix
x_dim = -1
y_dim = -1
z_dim = -1
s = """\

x_dim = -1
y_dim = -1
z_dim = -1
dict_1 = {}

for i in xrange(0,6):
	x_dim = 1
	y_dim = 1
	z_dim = 1
	dict_1['%s' % (i) ] = ['x = %i' % (x_dim), 'y = %i' % (y_dim),  'z =
%i' % (z_dim)]

"""

t = """\
import numpy
numpy.array([[ 1.,  0.,  0.],
       [ 0.,  1.,  2.]])
"""

u = """\
list_count = 0
an_array = []
for i in range(0,10):

	if list_count > 3:
		break
	
	if i % 3 != 0:
		an_array.append(i)

	if i % 3 == 0:
		list_count += 1

"""
print timeit.timeit(stmt=s, number=100000)
print timeit.timeit(stmt=t, number=100000)
print timeit.timeit(stmt=u, number=100000)


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From edriscoll at wisc.edu  Tue Oct 23 22:59:53 2012
From: edriscoll at wisc.edu (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 21:59:53 -0500
Subject: The pty module, reading from a pty, and Python 2/3
Message-ID: <508759A9.7070601@wisc.edu>

I have the following program. Everything is sunshine and rainbows when I 
run in in Python 2, but when I run it under Python 3 I get an IOError. 
2to3 only reports one dumb suggestion re. a print call (which I can get 
rid of by importing __future__'s print_function, and then it just 
suggests removing that import).

Can anyone shed any light? I am on Ubuntu Linux with Python 2.7.3 and 
3.2.3.


(Just for the record, I figured out that it ran under Python 2 by 
accident as I was reducing it for a "why doesn't this run?" email. :-) 
I'm not super-familiar with Py3 as I've mostly only worked with 2.)

I'm not 100% sure how this will come through, so I've also put it at 
http://pastebin.com/60wjXSF3.

Evan


import sys
import pty
import os

def get_text(filename):
     try:
         ( child_pid, fd ) = pty.fork()    # OK
     except OSError as e:
         print(str(e))
         sys.exit(1)

     if child_pid == 0:
         try:
             with open("log.txt", "w") as f:
                 f.write("about to execlp")
             os.execlp("cat", "cat", filename)
         except:
             with open("log.txt", "w") as f:
                 f.write("could not spawn process")
             print("Could not spawn")
             sys.exit(1)

     child_pty = os.fdopen(fd)
     return child_pty.read()


if __name__ == "__main__":
     print(get_text("my-pty-test.py"))


The read error I get is

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "my-pty-test.py", line 28, in <module>
     print(get_text("my-pty-test.py"))
   File "my-pty-test.py", line 24, in get_text
     return child_pty.read()
IOError: [Errno 5] Input/output error



From dirac.sat at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 23:01:03 2012
From: dirac.sat at gmail.com (satyam)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 20:01:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Split single file into multiple files based on patterns
Message-ID: <9ae3b43a-5c69-4232-a1cf-e2dd0c4ee2ca@googlegroups.com>

I have a text file like this

A1980JE39300007 2732 4195 12.527000
A1980JE39300007 3465 9720 22.000000
A1980JE39300007 1853 3278 12.500000
A1980JE39300007 2732 2732 187.500000
A1980JE39300007 19 4688 3.619000
A1980JE39300007 2995 9720 6.667000
A1980JE39300007 1603 9720 30.000000
A1980JE39300007 234 4195 42.416000
A1980JE39300007 2732 9720 18.000000
A1980KK18700010 130 303 4.985000
A1980KK18700010 7 4915 0.435000
A1980KK18700010 25 1620 1.722000
A1980KK18700010 25 186 0.654000
A1980KK18700010 50 130 3.199000
A1980KK18700010 186 3366 4.780000
A1980KK18700010 30 186 1.285000
A1980KK18700010 30 185 4.395000
A1980KK18700010 185 186 9.000000
A1980KK18700010 25 30 3.493000

I want to split the file and get multiple files like A1980JE39300007.txt and A1980KK18700010.txt, where each file will contain column2, 3 and 4.
Thanks
Satyam


From edriscoll at wisc.edu  Tue Oct 23 23:03:31 2012
From: edriscoll at wisc.edu (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 22:03:31 -0500
Subject: The pty module, reading from a pty, and Python 2/3
In-Reply-To: <508759A9.7070601@wisc.edu>
References: <508759A9.7070601@wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <50875A83.6030806@wisc.edu>

Oh, and a little more information:

The log.txt file I create has the message that it's "about to execlp", 
and the exec() *does* actually happen -- the IOError is raised after the 
child process quits.

Evan



On 10/23/2012 09:59 PM, Evan Driscoll wrote:
> I have the following program. Everything is sunshine and rainbows when 
> I run in in Python 2, but when I run it under Python 3 I get an 
> IOError. 2to3 only reports one dumb suggestion re. a print call (which 
> I can get rid of by importing __future__'s print_function, and then it 
> just suggests removing that import).
>
> Can anyone shed any light? I am on Ubuntu Linux with Python 2.7.3 and 
> 3.2.3.
>
>
> (Just for the record, I figured out that it ran under Python 2 by 
> accident as I was reducing it for a "why doesn't this run?" email. :-) 
> I'm not super-familiar with Py3 as I've mostly only worked with 2.)
>
> I'm not 100% sure how this will come through, so I've also put it at 
> http://pastebin.com/60wjXSF3.
>
> Evan
>
>
> import sys
> import pty
> import os
>
> def get_text(filename):
>     try:
>         ( child_pid, fd ) = pty.fork()    # OK
>     except OSError as e:
>         print(str(e))
>         sys.exit(1)
>
>     if child_pid == 0:
>         try:
>             with open("log.txt", "w") as f:
>                 f.write("about to execlp")
>             os.execlp("cat", "cat", filename)
>         except:
>             with open("log.txt", "w") as f:
>                 f.write("could not spawn process")
>             print("Could not spawn")
>             sys.exit(1)
>
>     child_pty = os.fdopen(fd)
>     return child_pty.read()
>
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     print(get_text("my-pty-test.py"))
>
>
> The read error I get is
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "my-pty-test.py", line 28, in <module>
>     print(get_text("my-pty-test.py"))
>   File "my-pty-test.py", line 24, in get_text
>     return child_pty.read()
> IOError: [Errno 5] Input/output error
>



From jason at powerpull.net  Tue Oct 23 23:36:49 2012
From: jason at powerpull.net (Jason Friedman)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 21:36:49 -0600
Subject: Split single file into multiple files based on patterns
In-Reply-To: <9ae3b43a-5c69-4232-a1cf-e2dd0c4ee2ca@googlegroups.com>
References: <9ae3b43a-5c69-4232-a1cf-e2dd0c4ee2ca@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CANy1k1jeT=yQ3RX7e26exRofP0KAxdKbf3gYVw6sttS_PP4kaw@mail.gmail.com>

> I have a text file like this
>
> A1980JE39300007 2732 4195 12.527000
> A1980JE39300007 3465 9720 22.000000
> A1980KK18700010 186 3366 4.780000
> A1980KK18700010 30 186 1.285000
> A1980KK18700010 30 185 4.395000
> A1980KK18700010 185 186 9.000000
> A1980KK18700010 25 30 3.493000
>
> I want to split the file and get multiple files like A1980JE39300007.txt and A1980KK18700010.txt, where each file will contain column2, 3 and 4.

The sample data above shows the data grouped by file name.  Will this
be true generally?


From edriscoll at wisc.edu  Tue Oct 23 23:41:10 2012
From: edriscoll at wisc.edu (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 22:41:10 -0500
Subject: The pty module, reading from a pty, and Python 2/3
In-Reply-To: <50875A83.6030806@wisc.edu>
References: <508759A9.7070601@wisc.edu> <50875A83.6030806@wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <50876356.3030005@wisc.edu>

OK, one more self-reply. :-)

I found http://bugs.python.org/issue5380 which seems to be relevant. 
Sounds like the OS is returning an error, and that's naturally being 
propagated through Python. And further testing reveals the problem only 
surfaces when the child actually exits -- if the child writes data to 
the pipe and is more enthusiastic about living, then the parent can read 
it successfully. While it'd be nice if my example worked, for my actual 
purpose I think that's good enough (I just won't be able to test *quite* 
as easily for a while).

I am still curious if anyone know why it worked in 2 though.

Evan



On 10/23/2012 10:03 PM, Evan Driscoll wrote:
> Oh, and a little more information:
>
> The log.txt file I create has the message that it's "about to execlp", 
> and the exec() *does* actually happen -- the IOError is raised after 
> the child process quits.
>
> Evan
>
>
>
> On 10/23/2012 09:59 PM, Evan Driscoll wrote:
>> I have the following program. Everything is sunshine and rainbows 
>> when I run in in Python 2, but when I run it under Python 3 I get an 
>> IOError. 2to3 only reports one dumb suggestion re. a print call 
>> (which I can get rid of by importing __future__'s print_function, and 
>> then it just suggests removing that import).
>>
>> Can anyone shed any light? I am on Ubuntu Linux with Python 2.7.3 and 
>> 3.2.3.
>>
>>
>> (Just for the record, I figured out that it ran under Python 2 by 
>> accident as I was reducing it for a "why doesn't this run?" email. 
>> :-) I'm not super-familiar with Py3 as I've mostly only worked with 2.)
>>
>> I'm not 100% sure how this will come through, so I've also put it at 
>> http://pastebin.com/60wjXSF3.
>>
>> Evan
>>
>>
>> import sys
>> import pty
>> import os
>>
>> def get_text(filename):
>>     try:
>>         ( child_pid, fd ) = pty.fork()    # OK
>>     except OSError as e:
>>         print(str(e))
>>         sys.exit(1)
>>
>>     if child_pid == 0:
>>         try:
>>             with open("log.txt", "w") as f:
>>                 f.write("about to execlp")
>>             os.execlp("cat", "cat", filename)
>>         except:
>>             with open("log.txt", "w") as f:
>>                 f.write("could not spawn process")
>>             print("Could not spawn")
>>             sys.exit(1)
>>
>>     child_pty = os.fdopen(fd)
>>     return child_pty.read()
>>
>>
>> if __name__ == "__main__":
>>     print(get_text("my-pty-test.py"))
>>
>>
>> The read error I get is
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "my-pty-test.py", line 28, in <module>
>>     print(get_text("my-pty-test.py"))
>>   File "my-pty-test.py", line 24, in get_text
>>     return child_pty.read()
>> IOError: [Errno 5] Input/output error
>>
>



From jason at powerpull.net  Tue Oct 23 23:43:21 2012
From: jason at powerpull.net (Jason Friedman)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 21:43:21 -0600
Subject: Split single file into multiple files based on patterns
In-Reply-To: <9ae3b43a-5c69-4232-a1cf-e2dd0c4ee2ca@googlegroups.com>
References: <9ae3b43a-5c69-4232-a1cf-e2dd0c4ee2ca@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CANy1k1jiHafh-mmhau158dAa3b6wPcfxv08igiT1W=hhAeBZWA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 9:01 PM, satyam <dirac.sat at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a text file like this
>
> A1980JE39300007 2732 4195 12.527000
> A1980JE39300007 3465 9720 22.000000
> A1980JE39300007 1853 3278 12.500000
> A1980JE39300007 2732 2732 187.500000
> A1980JE39300007 19 4688 3.619000
> A1980KK18700010 30 186 1.285000
> A1980KK18700010 30 185 4.395000
> A1980KK18700010 185 186 9.000000
> A1980KK18700010 25 30 3.493000
>
> I want to split the file and get multiple files like A1980JE39300007.txt and A1980KK18700010.txt, where each file will contain column2, 3 and 4.

Unless your source file is very large this should be sufficient:

$ cat source
A1980JE39300007 2732 4195 12.527000
A1980JE39300007 3465 9720 22.000000
A1980JE39300007 1853 3278 12.500000
A1980JE39300007 2732 2732 187.500000
A1980JE39300007 19 4688 3.619000
A1980JE39300007 2995 9720 6.667000
A1980JE39300007 1603 9720 30.000000
A1980JE39300007 234 4195 42.416000
A1980JE39300007 2732 9720 18.000000
A1980KK18700010 130 303 4.985000
A1980KK18700010 7 4915 0.435000
A1980KK18700010 25 1620 1.722000
A1980KK18700010 25 186 0.654000
A1980KK18700010 50 130 3.199000
A1980KK18700010 186 3366 4.780000
A1980KK18700010 30 186 1.285000
A1980KK18700010 30 185 4.395000
A1980KK18700010 185 186 9.000000
A1980KK18700010 25 30 3.493000

$ python3
Python 3.2.3 (default, Sep 10 2012, 18:14:40)
[GCC 4.6.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> for line in open("source"):
...     file_name, remainder = line.strip().split(None, 1)
...     with open(file_name + ".txt", "a") as writer:
...         print(remainder, file=writer)
...
>>>

$ ls *txt
A1980JE39300007.txt  A1980KK18700010.txt

$ cat A1980JE39300007.txt
2732 4195 12.527000
3465 9720 22.000000
1853 3278 12.500000
2732 2732 187.500000
19 4688 3.619000
2995 9720 6.667000
1603 9720 30.000000
234 4195 42.416000
2732 9720 18.000000


From dirac.sat at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 23:44:38 2012
From: dirac.sat at gmail.com (satyam mukherjee)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 22:44:38 -0500
Subject: Split single file into multiple files based on patterns
In-Reply-To: <CANy1k1jiHafh-mmhau158dAa3b6wPcfxv08igiT1W=hhAeBZWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9ae3b43a-5c69-4232-a1cf-e2dd0c4ee2ca@googlegroups.com>
	<CANy1k1jiHafh-mmhau158dAa3b6wPcfxv08igiT1W=hhAeBZWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGQ8+3DN5YR50S88vMRTQPP2d-NsJvAmZ-3WFA-0KaEHtdDBCQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks I will take a look...My actual data is 2.5Gb in size.
Satyam

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:43 PM, Jason Friedman <jason at powerpull.net>wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 9:01 PM, satyam <dirac.sat at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have a text file like this
> >
> > A1980JE39300007 2732 4195 12.527000
> > A1980JE39300007 3465 9720 22.000000
> > A1980JE39300007 1853 3278 12.500000
> > A1980JE39300007 2732 2732 187.500000
> > A1980JE39300007 19 4688 3.619000
> > A1980KK18700010 30 186 1.285000
> > A1980KK18700010 30 185 4.395000
> > A1980KK18700010 185 186 9.000000
> > A1980KK18700010 25 30 3.493000
> >
> > I want to split the file and get multiple files like A1980JE39300007.txt
> and A1980KK18700010.txt, where each file will contain column2, 3 and 4.
>
> Unless your source file is very large this should be sufficient:
>
> $ cat source
> A1980JE39300007 2732 4195 12.527000
> A1980JE39300007 3465 9720 22.000000
> A1980JE39300007 1853 3278 12.500000
> A1980JE39300007 2732 2732 187.500000
> A1980JE39300007 19 4688 3.619000
> A1980JE39300007 2995 9720 6.667000
> A1980JE39300007 1603 9720 30.000000
> A1980JE39300007 234 4195 42.416000
> A1980JE39300007 2732 9720 18.000000
> A1980KK18700010 130 303 4.985000
> A1980KK18700010 7 4915 0.435000
> A1980KK18700010 25 1620 1.722000
> A1980KK18700010 25 186 0.654000
> A1980KK18700010 50 130 3.199000
> A1980KK18700010 186 3366 4.780000
> A1980KK18700010 30 186 1.285000
> A1980KK18700010 30 185 4.395000
> A1980KK18700010 185 186 9.000000
> A1980KK18700010 25 30 3.493000
>
> $ python3
> Python 3.2.3 (default, Sep 10 2012, 18:14:40)
> [GCC 4.6.3] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> for line in open("source"):
> ...     file_name, remainder = line.strip().split(None, 1)
> ...     with open(file_name + ".txt", "a") as writer:
> ...         print(remainder, file=writer)
> ...
> >>>
>
> $ ls *txt
> A1980JE39300007.txt  A1980KK18700010.txt
>
> $ cat A1980JE39300007.txt
> 2732 4195 12.527000
> 3465 9720 22.000000
> 1853 3278 12.500000
> 2732 2732 187.500000
> 19 4688 3.619000
> 2995 9720 6.667000
> 1603 9720 30.000000
> 234 4195 42.416000
> 2732 9720 18.000000
>



-- 
-------------------------------------------
WHEN LIFE GIVES U HUNDRED REASONS TO CRY,SHOW LIFE THAT U HAVE THOUSAND
REASONS TO SMILE :-)

satyam mukherjee
224-436-3672 (Mob)
847-491-7238 (Off)
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From michael.j.krause at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 01:23:11 2012
From: michael.j.krause at gmail.com (seektime)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 22:23:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: turn list of letters into an array of integers
Message-ID: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>

Here's some example code. The input is a list which is a "matrix" of letters:
   a  b  a
   b  b  a

and I'd like to turn this into a Python array:

  1 2 1
  2 2 1

so 1 replaces a, and 2 replaces b. Here's the code I have so far:

>>> L=['a b a\n','b b a\n']
>>> s=' '.join(L)
>>> seq1=('a','b')
>>> seq2=('1','2')
>>> d = dict(zip(seq1,seq2))
>>> # Define method to replace letters according to dictionary (got this from http://gomputor.wordpress.com/2008/09/27/search-replace-multiple-words-or-characters-with-python/).
... def replace_all(text, dic):
...     for i, j in dic.iteritems():
...         text = text.replace(i, j)
...     return text
... 

>>> seq = replace_all(s,d)
>>> print seq
1 2 1
 2 2 1

>>> seq
'1 2 1\n 2 2 1\n'

My question is how can I turn "seq" into a python array?

Thanks
Michael


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 01:24:41 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 01:24:41 -0400
Subject: Split single file into multiple files based on patterns
In-Reply-To: <9ae3b43a-5c69-4232-a1cf-e2dd0c4ee2ca@googlegroups.com>
References: <9ae3b43a-5c69-4232-a1cf-e2dd0c4ee2ca@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJUx5sVHZnyTzqrQqYwa+8+ZFb-80oxv7LsmwF=Hs6xqhw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:01 PM, satyam <dirac.sat at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a text file like this
>
> A1980JE39300007 2732 4195 12.527000
> A1980JE39300007 3465 9720 22.000000
> A1980JE39300007 1853 3278 12.500000
> A1980JE39300007 2732 2732 187.500000
> A1980JE39300007 19 4688 3.619000
> A1980JE39300007 2995 9720 6.667000
> A1980JE39300007 1603 9720 30.000000
> A1980JE39300007 234 4195 42.416000
> A1980JE39300007 2732 9720 18.000000
> A1980KK18700010 130 303 4.985000
> A1980KK18700010 7 4915 0.435000
> A1980KK18700010 25 1620 1.722000
> A1980KK18700010 25 186 0.654000
> A1980KK18700010 50 130 3.199000
> A1980KK18700010 186 3366 4.780000
> A1980KK18700010 30 186 1.285000
> A1980KK18700010 30 185 4.395000
> A1980KK18700010 185 186 9.000000
> A1980KK18700010 25 30 3.493000
>
> I want to split the file and get multiple files like A1980JE39300007.txt and A1980KK18700010.txt, where each file will contain column2, 3 and 4.
> Thanks
> Satyam




#parse through the lines
turn_text_to_txt = ['A1980JE39300007 2732 4195 12.527000',
					'A1980JE39300007 3465 9720 22.000000',
					'A1980JE39300007 1853 3278 12.500000',
					'A1980JE39300007 2732 2732 187.500000',
					'A1980JE39300007 19 4688 3.619000',
					'A1980KK18700010 30 186 1.285000',
					'A1980KK18700010 30 185 4.395000',
					'A1980KK18700010 185 186 9.000000',
					'A1980KK18700010 25 30 3.493000']
#then split and open a file for writing to create the file

#then start a count to add an extra number, because the files #you're
opening have the same name in some, which will #cause python to
overwrite the last file with that name.

#So I added an extra integer count after an underscore to #keep all
files, even if the have the first base number.

count = 0

for file_data in turn_text_to_txt:

#open the file for writing in 'w' mode so it creates the file, and
#adds in the appropriate data, including the extra count i#nteger just
in case there are files with the same name.

	f = open('/home/david/files/%s_%s.txt' % (file_data.split(' ')[0], count), 'w')
	
#write the data to the file, however this is in list format, I could
go further, but need a little time for a few other things.

	f.write( str(file_data.split(' ')[1:]))

#close the file	
	f.close()

#increment the count for the next iteration, if necessary, and #again,
this is just in case the files have the same name, and #need an
additive.
#	count += 1


Full code from above, without comments:

turn_text_to_txt = ['A1980JE39300007 2732 4195 12.527000',
					'A1980JE39300007 3465 9720 22.000000',
					'A1980JE39300007 1853 3278 12.500000',
					'A1980JE39300007 2732 2732 187.500000',
					'A1980JE39300007 19 4688 3.619000',
					'A1980KK18700010 30 186 1.285000',
					'A1980KK18700010 30 185 4.395000',
					'A1980KK18700010 185 186 9.000000',
					'A1980KK18700010 25 30 3.493000']
#then split and open a file for writing to create the file
count = 0

for file_data in turn_text_to_txt:

	print '/home/david/files/%s.txt' % (file_data.split(' ')[0])

	f = open('/home/david/files/%s_%s.txt' % (file_data.split(' ')[0], count), 'w')
	
	f.write( str(file_data.split(' ')[1:]))
	
	f.close()
	
	count += 1




-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 01:36:56 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 22:36:56 -0700
Subject: Split single file into multiple files based on patterns
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJUx5sVHZnyTzqrQqYwa+8+ZFb-80oxv7LsmwF=Hs6xqhw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9ae3b43a-5c69-4232-a1cf-e2dd0c4ee2ca@googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJUx5sVHZnyTzqrQqYwa+8+ZFb-80oxv7LsmwF=Hs6xqhw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9F8006A5-876C-4BDA-94B0-F1EDD12509BA@gmail.com>

On 2012-10-23, at 10:24 PM, David Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:

> count = 0
Don't use count.

> for file_data in turn_text_to_txt:
Use enumerate: 

for count, file_data in enumerate(turn_text_to_txt):

> f = open('/home/david/files/%s_%s.txt' % (file_data.split(' ')[0], count), 'w')
Use with: 

with open('file path', 'w') as f:
    f.write('data')

Not only is it shorter, but it automatically closes the file once you've come out of the inner block, whether successfully or erroneously.


Demian Brecht
@demianbrecht
http://demianbrecht.github.com






From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 01:45:07 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 22:45:07 -0700
Subject: turn list of letters into an array of integers
In-Reply-To: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
References: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <A764F6A1-B1B5-43F8-8AB3-43E908C094C5@gmail.com>

On 2012-10-23, at 10:23 PM, seektime <michael.j.krause at gmail.com> wrote:
> My question is how can I turn "seq" into a python array?


Something like this perhaps?:

>>> alpha = ('a', 'b')
>>> numeric = ('1', '2')
>>> L = ['a b a\n', 'b b a\n']
>>> s = ' '.join(L)
>>> d = dict(zip(alpha, numeric))
>>> list_ = [d[c] for c in s.strip('\n').split()]
>>> list_
['1', '2', '1', '2', '2', '1']

Demian Brecht
@demianbrecht
http://demianbrecht.github.com






From alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr  Wed Oct 24 01:46:28 2012
From: alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (Alain Ketterlin)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 07:46:28 +0200
Subject: Split single file into multiple files based on patterns
References: <9ae3b43a-5c69-4232-a1cf-e2dd0c4ee2ca@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87wqyga0cr.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>

satyam <dirac.sat at gmail.com> writes:

> I have a text file like this
>
> A1980JE39300007 2732 4195 12.527000
> A1980JE39300007 3465 9720 22.000000
> A1980JE39300007 2732 9720 18.000000
> A1980KK18700010 130 303 4.985000
> A1980KK18700010 7 4915 0.435000
[...]
> I want to split the file and get multiple files like
> A1980JE39300007.txt and A1980KK18700010.txt, where each file will
> contain column2, 3 and 4.

Sorry for being completely off-topic here, but awk has a very convenient
feature to deal with this. Simply use:

    awk '{ print $2,$3,$4 > $1".txt"; }' /path/to/your/file

-- Alain.


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 01:50:38 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 01:50:38 -0400
Subject: turn list of letters into an array of integers
In-Reply-To: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
References: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJXYET2xDT-zkkK1qj-qBsJDq56=K7jHzmhfr1Cb4-p29w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 1:23 AM, seektime <michael.j.krause at gmail.com> wrote:
> Here's some example code. The input is a list which is a "matrix" of letters:
>    a  b  a
>    b  b  a
>
> and I'd like to turn this into a Python array:
>
>   1 2 1
>   2 2 1
>
> so 1 replaces a, and 2 replaces b. Here's the code I have so far:
>
>>>> L=['a b a\n','b b a\n']
>>>> s=' '.join(L)
>>>> seq1=('a','b')
>>>> seq2=('1','2')
>>>> d = dict(zip(seq1,seq2))
>>>> # Define method to replace letters according to dictionary (got this from http://gommeitputor.wordpress.com/2008/09/27/search-replace-multiple-words-or-characters-with-python/).
> ... def replace_all(text, dic):
> ...     for i, j in dic.iteritems():
> ...         text = text.replace(i, j)
> ...     return text
> ...
>
>>>> seq = replace_all(s,d)
>>>> print seq
> 1 2 1
>  2 2 1
>
>>>> seq
> '1 2 1\n 2 2 1\n'
>
I'd suggest, if this is what you're referring to:

x = seq.split('\n  ')
array_list = [ ]
next_3_d_array = []
range_of_seq = len(seq)
for num in range(0,range_of_seq):
       if num % 3 != 0:
               next_3_d_array.append(num)
       if num % 3 == 0:
                   array_list.append(next_3_d_array)
                   next_3_d_array = [ ]

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 01:51:26 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 22:51:26 -0700
Subject: turn list of letters into an array of integers
In-Reply-To: <A764F6A1-B1B5-43F8-8AB3-43E908C094C5@gmail.com>
References: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
	<A764F6A1-B1B5-43F8-8AB3-43E908C094C5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F189C287-64D2-44D5-98EB-086E73747EED@gmail.com>


On 2012-10-23, at 10:45 PM, Demian Brecht <demianbrecht at gmail.com> wrote:

>>>> list_ = [d[c] for c in s.strip('\n').split()]
>>>> list_
> ['1', '2', '1', '2', '2', '1']


Of course, if you want these to be ints, then you can either change the format of your int list, or map(int, list_) if you don't have control over it.

Demian Brecht
@demianbrecht
http://demianbrecht.github.com






From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 01:54:30 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 22:54:30 -0700
Subject: turn list of letters into an array of integers
In-Reply-To: <F189C287-64D2-44D5-98EB-086E73747EED@gmail.com>
References: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
	<A764F6A1-B1B5-43F8-8AB3-43E908C094C5@gmail.com>
	<F189C287-64D2-44D5-98EB-086E73747EED@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E78532F1-3F22-478C-9B6F-DEE6A305DDDA@gmail.com>


> Of course, if you want these to be ints, then you can either change the format of your int list, or map(int, list_) if you don't have control over it.


Ugh, I'm tired. Shouldn't map it, the conversion should be done in the list comprehension to avoid a needless second list iteration.

K, I'm going to sleep now. :P

Demian Brecht
@demianbrecht
http://demianbrecht.github.com






From kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 01:55:53 2012
From: kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com (Kushal Kumaran)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 11:25:53 +0530
Subject: PIL and requests don't get along
In-Reply-To: <k66mc3$ed3$1@panix2.panix.com>
References: <k66mc3$ed3$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <871ugofm6u.fsf@nitrogen.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me>

On 23 Oct 2012 14:06:59 -0400, roy at panix.com (Roy Smith) wrote:
> I have a url from which I can get an image.  I want to use PIL to
> manipulate that image.  Getting the image is easy:
> 
> >>> import requests
> >>> r = requests.get(url)
> 
> There's a bunch of factory functions for Image, but none of them seem
> to take anything that requests is willing to give you.  Image.new()
> requires that you pass it the image size.  Image.open() takes a file
> object, but
> 
> >>> Image.open(r.raw)
> 
> doesn't work because r.raw gives you a socket which doesn't support
> seek().  I end up doing:
> 
> >>> r = requests.get(url)
> >>> data = cStringIO.StringIO(r.content)
> >>> image = Image.open(data)
> 
> which works, but it's gross.  Is there something I'm missing here?

That is pretty much what the requests module documentation says here:

http://docs.python-requests.org/en/latest/user/quickstart/#binary-response-content

-- 
regards,
kushal


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 02:02:08 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 02:02:08 -0400
Subject: The pty module, reading from a pty, and Python 2/3
In-Reply-To: <50876356.3030005@wisc.edu>
References: <508759A9.7070601@wisc.edu> <50875A83.6030806@wisc.edu>
	<50876356.3030005@wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJWV3hNxy8pM6JC4hc=yPtOY4XLUQFww7pE3=cYajaUJUQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:41 PM, Evan Driscoll <edriscoll at wisc.edu> wrote:
> OK, one more self-reply. :-)
>
> I found http://bugs.python.org/issue5380 which seems to be relevant. Sounds
> like the OS is returning an error, and that's naturally being propagated
> through Python. And further testing reveals the problem only surfaces when
> the child actually exits -- if the child writes data to the pipe and is more
> enthusiastic about living, then the parent can read it successfully. While
> it'd be nice if my example worked, for my actual purpose I think that's good
> enough (I just won't be able to test *quite* as easily for a while).
>
> I am still curious if anyone know why it worked in 2 though.
>
> Evan
>
>
>
>
> On 10/23/2012 10:03 PM, Evan Driscoll wrote:
>>
>> Oh, and a little more information:
>>
>> The log.txt file I create has the message that it's "about to execlp", and
>> the exec() *does* actually happen -- the IOError is raised after the child
>> process quits.
>>
>> Evan
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/23/2012 09:59 PM, Evan Driscoll wrote:
>>>
>>> I have the following program. Everything is sunshine and rainbows when I
>>> run in in Python 2, but when I run it under Python 3 I get an IOError. 2to3
>>> only reports one dumb suggestion re. a print call (which I can get rid of by
>>> importing __future__'s print_function, and then it just suggests removing
>>> that import).
>>>
>>> Can anyone shed any light? I am on Ubuntu Linux with Python 2.7.3 and
>>> 3.2.3.
>>>
>>>
>>> (Just for the record, I figured out that it ran under Python 2 by
>>> accident as I was reducing it for a "why doesn't this run?" email. :-) I'm
>>> not super-familiar with Py3 as I've mostly only worked with 2.)
>>>
>>> I'm not 100% sure how this will come through, so I've also put it at
>>> http://pastebin.com/60wjXSF3.
>>>
>>> Evan
>>>
>>>
>>> import sys
>>> import pty
>>> import os
>>>
>>> def get_text(filename):
>>>     try:
>>>         ( child_pid, fd ) = pty.fork()    # OK
>>>     except OSError as e:
>>>         print(str(e))
>>>         sys.exit(1)
>>>
>>>     if child_pid == 0:
>>>         try:
>>>             with open("log.txt", "w") as f:
>>>                 f.write("about to execlp")
>>>             os.execlp("cat", "cat", filename)
>>>         except:
>>>             with open("log.txt", "w") as f:
>>>                 f.write("could not spawn process")
>>>             print("Could not spawn")
>>>             sys.exit(1)
>>>
>>>     child_pty = os.fdopen(fd)
>>>     return child_pty.read()
>>>
>>>
>>> if __name__ == "__main__":
>>>     print(get_text("my-pty-test.py"))
>>>
>>>
>>> The read error I get is
>>>
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>   File "my-pty-test.py", line 28, in <module>
>>>     print(get_text("my-pty-test.py"))
>>>   File "my-pty-test.py", line 24, in get_text
>>>     return child_pty.read()
>>> IOError: [Errno 5] Input/output error

at first glance, you have the file open for writing('w'), not
reading('r'), but may not be that.

I'll check if I get a few minutes.



-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Oct 24 02:07:26 2012
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 23:07:26 -0700
Subject: turn list of letters into an array of integers
In-Reply-To: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
References: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRR+RMFMy0CiWTDbw_xm1n9EZPxN5HpyoyRSM114xNmGpg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:23 PM, seektime <michael.j.krause at gmail.com> wrote:
> Here's some example code. The input is a list which is a "matrix" of letters:
>    a  b  a
>    b  b  a
>
> and I'd like to turn this into a Python array:

You mean a Python list. The datatype Python calls an `array` is very
different and relatively uncommonly used.
Although, confusingly, Python's lists are implemented using C arrays
rather than linked lists.

>   1 2 1
>   2 2 1
>
> so 1 replaces a, and 2 replaces b. Here's the code I have so far:
>
>>>> L=['a b a\n','b b a\n']
<snip>
>>>> seq
> '1 2 1\n 2 2 1\n'
>
> My question is how can I turn "seq" into a python array?

I'd say you're asking the wrong question. The better question is "Why
wasn't the result a list in the first place?". Many transformations
are cumbersome to express over just strings, which is why the first
job of most programs is to parse their input into a more convenient
structure that is suited to their main task(s).

This (along with some other improvements) leads to a better, somewhat
different program/algorithm:

letter2number = {'a': 1, 'b': 2}
with open("path/to/file.txt", "r") as f:
    result = [[letter2number[letter] for letter in
line.strip().split()] for line in f]

If it's safe to assume that the correspondence between the letters and
numbers isn't completely arbitrary, some further improvements are also
possible.

Some relevant docs:
http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#string-methods
http://docs.python.org/tutorial/datastructures.html#list-comprehensions

Cheers,
Chris

P.S.: I'm guessing you obtained `L` from file.readlines() or similar;
it is worth noting for future reference that the readlines() method is
considered somewhat deprecated.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 24 02:13:24 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 07:13:24 +0100
Subject: Split single file into multiple files based on patterns
In-Reply-To: <87wqyga0cr.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
References: <9ae3b43a-5c69-4232-a1cf-e2dd0c4ee2ca@googlegroups.com>
	<87wqyga0cr.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
Message-ID: <k680om$p9a$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 24/10/2012 06:46, Alain Ketterlin wrote:
> satyam <dirac.sat at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I have a text file like this
>>
>> A1980JE39300007 2732 4195 12.527000
>> A1980JE39300007 3465 9720 22.000000
>> A1980JE39300007 2732 9720 18.000000
>> A1980KK18700010 130 303 4.985000
>> A1980KK18700010 7 4915 0.435000
> [...]
>> I want to split the file and get multiple files like
>> A1980JE39300007.txt and A1980KK18700010.txt, where each file will
>> contain column2, 3 and 4.
>
> Sorry for being completely off-topic here, but awk has a very convenient
> feature to deal with this. Simply use:
>
>      awk '{ print $2,$3,$4 > $1".txt"; }' /path/to/your/file
>
> -- Alain.
>

Although practicality beats purity :)

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 02:33:45 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 02:33:45 -0400
Subject: The pty module, reading from a pty, and Python 2/3
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJWV3hNxy8pM6JC4hc=yPtOY4XLUQFww7pE3=cYajaUJUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <508759A9.7070601@wisc.edu> <50875A83.6030806@wisc.edu>
	<50876356.3030005@wisc.edu>
	<CA+vVgJWV3hNxy8pM6JC4hc=yPtOY4XLUQFww7pE3=cYajaUJUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJW8ajD=VgdR5jxaJ4eTwX5Q-y6JFLnvy2CDt1Mx2T1Efg@mail.gmail.com>

import sys
import pty
import os

def get_text(filename):
#you need to find the file size, and place it as an integer in read
below, where you return the value
	statinfo = os.stat(filename)

	try:
		( child_pid, fd ) = pty.fork()		# OK
	except OSError as e:
		print(str(e))
		sys.exit(1)

	if child_pid == 0:
		try:
			with open("log.txt", "w") as f:
				f.write("about to execlp")
			os.execlp("cat", "cat", filename)
		except:
			with open("log.txt", "w") as f:
				f.write("could not spawn process")
			print("Could not spawn")
			sys.exit(1)

	child_pty = os.fdopen(fd)
#you have to input into read, how many characters you want read in. if
you place a random integer in, it will read to that integer within the
file
	return child_pty.read(statinfo.st_size)


if __name__ == "__main__":
	print(get_text("my-pty-test.py"))


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 02:40:44 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 02:40:44 -0400
Subject: The pty module, reading from a pty, and Python 2/3
In-Reply-To: <508759A9.7070601@wisc.edu>
References: <508759A9.7070601@wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJUrJHh5QRUp+gn0E6TLSRvg7vT-Bsg_eZaEDC5kX8DQxA@mail.gmail.com>

#better coded for you to understand

import sys
import pty
import os

def get_text(filename):

	try:
		( child_pid, fd ) = pty.fork()		# OK
	except OSError as e:
		print(str(e))
		sys.exit(1)

	if child_pid == 0:
		try:
			with open("log.txt", "w") as f:
				f.write("about to execlp")
			os.execlp("cat", "cat", filename)
		except:
			with open("log.txt", "w") as f:
				f.write("could not spawn process")
			print("Could not spawn")
			sys.exit(1)

	child_pty = os.fdopen(fd)
#you need to find the file size, and place it as an integer in read
below, where you return the value
#you have to input into read, how many characters you want read in
with statinfo.st_size
	statinfo = os.stat(filename)
	return child_pty.read(statinfo.st_size)


if __name__ == "__main__":
	print(get_text("my-pty-test.py"))

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 02:46:52 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 02:46:52 -0400
Subject: The pty module, reading from a pty, and Python 2/3
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJUrJHh5QRUp+gn0E6TLSRvg7vT-Bsg_eZaEDC5kX8DQxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <508759A9.7070601@wisc.edu>
	<CA+vVgJUrJHh5QRUp+gn0E6TLSRvg7vT-Bsg_eZaEDC5kX8DQxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJW6sd0m_PfGLX47VUuxQOJzOqYso0wmteUTLRg4LKb_XA@mail.gmail.com>

in other words, the last two lines of your function should be:

         statinfo = os.stat(filename)
         return child_pty.read(statinfo.st_size)


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From vs at it.uu.se  Wed Oct 24 03:05:38 2012
From: vs at it.uu.se (Virgil Stokes)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:05:38 +0200
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJWnAThHhD4cUJzXLGdVojCNA1oV_qKYwa+7UsEqS=x7XQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
	<CA+vVgJV6feUL0gTPC==3fp3Wq8zvRXgoyhVaUYnZNtMfF8qpLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJWnAThHhD4cUJzXLGdVojCNA1oV_qKYwa+7UsEqS=x7XQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50879342.5030301@it.uu.se>

On 24-Oct-2012 00:36, David Hutto wrote:
>> Don't forget to use timeit for an average OS utilization.
>>
>> I'd suggest two list comprehensions for now, until I've reviewed it some more:
>>
>> forward =  ["%i = %s" % (i,chr(i)) for i in range(33,126)]
>> backward = ["%i = %s" % (i,chr(i)) for i in range(126,32,-1)]
>>
>> for var in forward:
>>          print var
>>
>> for var in backward:
>>          print var
>>
>> You could also use a dict, and iterate through a straight loop that
>> assigned a front and back to a dict_one =  {0 : [0.100], 1 : [1.99]}
>> and the iterate through the loop, and call the first or second in the
>> dict's var list for frontwards , or backwards calls.
>>
>>
>> But there might be faster implementations, depending on other
>> function's usage of certain lower level functions.
>>
> Missed the part about it being a file. Use:
>
> forward =  ["%i = %s" % (i,chr(i)) for i in range(33,126)]
> backward = ["%i = %s" % (i,chr(i)) for i in range(126,32,-1)]
>
> print forward,backward
Interesting approach for small data sets (or blocks from a much larger data set).

Thanks David :-)


From vs at it.uu.se  Wed Oct 24 03:07:43 2012
From: vs at it.uu.se (Virgil Stokes)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:07:43 +0200
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <k66t6q$819$1@dont-email.me>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se> <5086C156.40707@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2677.1351012669.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k66t6q$819$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <508793BF.30306@it.uu.se>

On 23-Oct-2012 22:03, Cousin Stanley wrote:
> Virgil Stokes wrote:
>
>> Not sure about "tac" --- could you provide more details on this
>> and/or a simple example of how it could be used for fast reversed
>> "reading" of a data file ?
>    tac is available as a command under linux ....
>
>    $ whatis tac
>    tac (1) - concatenate and print files in reverse
>
>    $ whereis tac
>    tac: /usr/bin/tac /usr/bin/X11/tac /usr/share/man/man1/tac.1.gz
>
>    $ man tac
>
>    SYNOPSIS
>      tac [OPTION]... [FILE]...
>
>    DESCRIPTION
>
>      Write each FILE to standard output, last line first.
>
>      With no FILE, or when FILE is -, read standard input.
>
>
>    I only know that the  tac  command exists
>    but have never used it myself ....
>
>
Unfortunately, I may be forced to process the data on a Windows platform; but, 
thanks Cousin for the Linux tip.




From vs at it.uu.se  Wed Oct 24 03:12:29 2012
From: vs at it.uu.se (Virgil Stokes)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:12:29 +0200
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <CAHVvXxRRSwV=A9Sx6odkpG2wOYwito7=OD6YPatcAutoBuAcgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
	<CAHVvXxRRSwV=A9Sx6odkpG2wOYwito7=OD6YPatcAutoBuAcgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508794DD.6050305@it.uu.se>

On 24-Oct-2012 02:06, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
> On 23 October 2012 15:31, Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se> wrote:
>> I am working with some rather large data files (>100GB) that contain time
>> series data. The data (t_k,y(t_k)), k = 0,1,...,N are stored in ASCII
>> format. I perform various types of processing on these data (e.g. moving
>> median, moving average, and Kalman-filter, Kalman-smoother) in a sequential
>> manner and only a small number of these data need be stored in RAM when
>> being processed. When performing Kalman-filtering (forward in time pass, k =
>> 0,1,...,N) I need to save to an external file several variables (e.g. 11*32
>> bytes) for each (t_k, y(t_k)). These are inputs to the Kalman-smoother
>> (backward in time pass, k = N,N-1,...,0). Thus, I will need to input these
>> variables saved to an external file from the forward pass, in reverse order
>> --- from last written to first written.
>>
>> Finally, to my question --- What is a fast way to write these variables to
>> an external file and then read them in backwards?
> You mentioned elsewhere that you are using numpy. I'll assume that the
> data you want to read/write are numpy arrays.
>
> Numpy arrays can be written very efficiently in binary form using
> tofile/fromfile:
>
>>>> import numpy
>>>> a = numpy.array([1, 2, 5], numpy.int64)
>>>> a
> array([1, 2, 5])
>>>> with open('data.bin', 'wb') as f:
> ...   a.tofile(f)
> ...
>
> You can then reload the array with:
>
>>>> with open('data.bin', 'rb') as f:
> ...   a2 = numpy.fromfile(f, numpy.int64)
> ...
>>>> a2
> array([1, 2, 5])
>
> Numpy arrays can be reversed before writing or after reading using;
>
>>>> a2
> array([1, 2, 5])
>>>> a2[::-1]
> array([5, 2, 1])
>
> Assuming you wrote the file forwards you can make an iterator to yield
> the file in chunks backwards like so (untested):
>
> def read_backwards(f, dtype, chunksize=1024 ** 2):
>      dtype = numpy.dtype(dtype)
>      nbytes = chunksize * dtype.itemsize
>      f.seek(0, 2)
>      fpos = f.tell()
>      while fpos > nbytes:
>          f.seek(fpos, 0)
>          yield numpy.fromfile(f, dtype, chunksize)[::-1]
>          fpos -= nbytes
>      yield numpy.fromfile(f, dtype)[::-1]
>
>
> Oscar
Ok Oscar,
Thanks for the tip and I will look into this more.


From vs at it.uu.se  Wed Oct 24 03:14:29 2012
From: vs at it.uu.se (Virgil Stokes)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:14:29 +0200
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <7xr4ooah0t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se> <5086C156.40707@tim.thechases.com>
	<5086D13F.80006@it.uu.se> <5086DA4D.4060204@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2683.1351018926.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr4ooah0t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <50879555.7000200@it.uu.se>

On 24-Oct-2012 01:46, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se> writes:
>> Yes, I do wish to inverse the order,  but the "forward in time" file
>> will be in binary.
> I really think it will be simplest to just write the file in forward
> order, then use mmap to read it one record at a time.  It might be
> possible to squeeze out a little more performance with reordering tricks
> but that's the first thing to try.
Thanks Paul,
I am working on this approach now...


From vs at it.uu.se  Wed Oct 24 03:17:05 2012
From: vs at it.uu.se (Virgil Stokes)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:17:05 +0200
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <724DDA67-8B4F-4E12-A359-85E3AC3B37EA@gmail.com>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
	<mailman.2694.1351029058.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<50871ff6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<724DDA67-8B4F-4E12-A359-85E3AC3B37EA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508795F1.4030206@it.uu.se>

On 24-Oct-2012 00:57, Demian Brecht wrote:
>> This is a classic example of why the old external processing algorithms
>> of the 1960s and 70s will never be obsolete. No matter how much memory
>> you have, there will always be times when you want to process more data
>> than you can fit into memory.
>
> But surely nobody will *ever* need more than 640k?
>
> Right?
>
> Demian Brecht
> @demianbrecht
> http://demianbrecht.github.com
>
>
>
>
Yes, I can still remember such quotes --- thanks for jogging my memory, Demian :-)


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 03:19:30 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 03:19:30 -0400
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <50879342.5030301@it.uu.se>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
	<CA+vVgJV6feUL0gTPC==3fp3Wq8zvRXgoyhVaUYnZNtMfF8qpLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJWnAThHhD4cUJzXLGdVojCNA1oV_qKYwa+7UsEqS=x7XQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50879342.5030301@it.uu.se>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJWALxk22+BASoSSqzCr4nyTYJAFOs=2QqVQbFKCn-cWAw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 3:05 AM, Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se> wrote:
> On 24-Oct-2012 00:36, David Hutto wrote:
>>>
>>> Don't forget to use timeit for an average OS utilization.
>>>
>>> I'd suggest two list comprehensions for now, until I've reviewed it some
>>> more:
>>>
>>> forward =  ["%i = %s" % (i,chr(i)) for i in range(33,126)]
>>> backward = ["%i = %s" % (i,chr(i)) for i in range(126,32,-1)]
>>>
>>> for var in forward:
>>>          print var
>>>
>>> for var in backward:
>>>          print var
>>>
>>> You could also use a dict, and iterate through a straight loop that
>>> assigned a front and back to a dict_one =  {0 : [0.100], 1 : [1.99]}
>>> and the iterate through the loop, and call the first or second in the
>>> dict's var list for frontwards , or backwards calls.
>>>
>>>
>>> But there might be faster implementations, depending on other
>>> function's usage of certain lower level functions.
>>>
>> Missed the part about it being a file. Use:
>>
>> forward =  ["%i = %s" % (i,chr(i)) for i in range(33,126)]
>> backward = ["%i = %s" % (i,chr(i)) for i in range(126,32,-1)]
>>
>> print forward,backward
>
> Interesting approach for small data sets (or blocks from a much larger data
> set).
>
> Thanks David :-)

No problem.

I think this was for a > 100GB, which might be able to be reduced for
parsing if I could see a snippet of the usual data being processed by
the function

But it does go to big O notation, and optimization of the average data
being passed through, unless the data varies in wide ranges, in which
that could be optimized to go from smaller to larger, vice versa, or
othe pieces of data with a higher priority level..




-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From vs at it.uu.se  Wed Oct 24 03:19:36 2012
From: vs at it.uu.se (Virgil Stokes)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:19:36 +0200
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <50871ff6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
	<mailman.2694.1351029058.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<50871ff6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <50879688.30602@it.uu.se>

On 24-Oct-2012 00:53, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 17:50:55 -0400, David Hutto wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se> wrote:
>>> I am working with some rather large data files (>100GB)
> [...]
>>> Finally, to my question --- What is a fast way to write these variables
>>> to an external file and then read them in backwards?
>> Don't forget to use timeit for an average OS utilization.
> Given that the data files are larger than 100 gigabytes, the time
> required to process each file is likely to be in hours, not microseconds.
> That being the case, timeit is the wrong tool for the job, it is
> optimized for timings tiny code snippets. You could use it, of course,
> but the added inconvenience doesn't gain you any added accuracy.
>
> Here's a neat context manager that makes timing long-running code simple:
>
>
> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577896
Thanks for this link
>
>
>
>> I'd suggest two list comprehensions for now, until I've reviewed it some
>> more:
> I would be very surprised if the poster will be able to fit 100 gigabytes
> of data into even a single list comprehension, let alone two.
You are correct and I have been looking at working with blocks that are sized to 
the RAM available for processing.
>
> This is a classic example of why the old external processing algorithms
> of the 1960s and 70s will never be obsolete. No matter how much memory
> you have, there will always be times when you want to process more data
> than you can fit into memory.
>
>
>
Thanks for your insights :-)


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 03:26:30 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 03:26:30 -0400
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <508795F1.4030206@it.uu.se>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
	<mailman.2694.1351029058.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<50871ff6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<724DDA67-8B4F-4E12-A359-85E3AC3B37EA@gmail.com>
	<508795F1.4030206@it.uu.se>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJX9rcTCXu+Y0Zvkq0xr_nNeRKaD7NopHQvrGgeVioGZnA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 3:17 AM, Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se> wrote:
> On 24-Oct-2012 00:57, Demian Brecht wrote:
>>>
>>> This is a classic example of why the old external processing algorithms
>>> of the 1960s and 70s will never be obsolete. No matter how much memory
>>> you have, there will always be times when you want to process more data
>>> than you can fit into memory.
>>
>>
>> But surely nobody will *ever* need more than 640k?
>>
>> Right?
>>
>> Demian Brecht
>> @demianbrecht
>> http://demianbrecht.github.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Yes, I can still remember such quotes --- thanks for jogging my memory,
> Demian :-)


This is only on equipment designed by others, otherwise, you could
engineer the hardware yourself to perfom just certain functions for
you(RISC), and pass that back to the CISC(from a PCB design).


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct 24 03:47:57 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:47:57 +0200
Subject: turn list of letters into an array of integers
References: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
	<CAMZYqRR+RMFMy0CiWTDbw_xm1n9EZPxN5HpyoyRSM114xNmGpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k686ej$6r8$1@ger.gmane.org>

Chris Rebert wrote:

> line.strip().split()

No need to strip() if you are going to split on whitespace:

>>> line = " a b c \n"
>>> line.split() == line.strip().split()
True

Lest the new idiom takes on while you are bravely fighting the immortable 
readlines() ;)



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Oct 24 03:52:06 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Oct 2012 07:52:06 GMT
Subject: Split single file into multiple files based on patterns
References: <9ae3b43a-5c69-4232-a1cf-e2dd0c4ee2ca@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50879e26$0$29882$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 20:01:03 -0700, satyam wrote:

> I have a text file like this
> 
> A1980JE39300007 2732 4195 12.527000
[...]

> I want to split the file and get multiple files like A1980JE39300007.txt
> and A1980KK18700010.txt, where each file will contain column2, 3 and 4.

Are you just excited and want to tell everyone, or do you actually have a 
question?

Have you tried to write some code, or do you just expect others to do 
your work for you?

If so, I see that your expectation was correct.



-- 
Steven


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 04:02:17 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 04:02:17 -0400
Subject: Split single file into multiple files based on patterns
In-Reply-To: <50879e26$0$29882$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9ae3b43a-5c69-4232-a1cf-e2dd0c4ee2ca@googlegroups.com>
	<50879e26$0$29882$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJU-8gZd2yJyHV5grWdjdWBkNHoRQQY8R9GyLSg7=7QvLQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 3:52 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 20:01:03 -0700, satyam wrote:
>
>> I have a text file like this
>>
>> A1980JE39300007 2732 4195 12.527000
> [...]
>
>> I want to split the file and get multiple files like A1980JE39300007.txt
>> and A1980KK18700010.txt, where each file will contain column2, 3 and 4.
>
> Are you just excited and want to tell everyone, or do you actually have a
> question?
>
> Have you tried to write some code, or do you just expect others to do
> your work for you?
>
> If so, I see that your expectation was correct.
>
>
>
> --
> Steven

Some learn better with a full example, better than any small challenge
that can be thrown in at certain times.

I think it should be a little of both, especially if you (an
algorithmitist for the OP)only have enough time to throw out untested
pseudo code.

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Oct 24 04:05:02 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Oct 2012 08:05:02 GMT
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
	<CA+vVgJV6feUL0gTPC==3fp3Wq8zvRXgoyhVaUYnZNtMfF8qpLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJWnAThHhD4cUJzXLGdVojCNA1oV_qKYwa+7UsEqS=x7XQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUNOZD3vBVFDXvXzdXb=c5THQG+B5dSOp_uF1nqDHhPug@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJV2A7oJQCRGFypqsfYXHNVxSuhWJUhCF+FM4NWnXanGcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<k679kb$rs1$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2717.1351056298.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5087a12e$0$29882$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 01:23:58 -0400, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 16:35:40 -0700, emile <emile at fenx.com> declaimed the
> following in gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
>> On 10/23/2012 04:19 PM, David Hutto wrote:
>> > forward =  [line.rstrip('\n') for line in f.readlines()]
>> 
>> f.readlines() will be big(!) and have overhead... and forward results
>> in something again as big.
>>
> 	Well, since file objects are iterable, could one just drop the
> .readlines() ? ( ... line in f )

Yes, but the bottleneck is still that the list comprehension will run to 
completion, trying to process the entire 100+ GB file in one go.

[...]
> 	And since the line-ends have already been stripped from forward,
> backward should just be:
> 
> 	backward = reversed(forward)

reversed returns a lazy iterator, but it requires that forward is a non-
lazy (eager) sequence. So again you're stuck trying to read the entire 
file into RAM.

-- 
Steven


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Wed Oct 24 04:12:16 2012
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:12:16 +0100
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <508793BF.30306@it.uu.se>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se> <5086C156.40707@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2677.1351012669.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k66t6q$819$1@dont-email.me> <508793BF.30306@it.uu.se>
Message-ID: <5087A2E0.7000207@timgolden.me.uk>

On 24/10/2012 08:07, Virgil Stokes wrote:
> On 23-Oct-2012 22:03, Cousin Stanley wrote:
>> Virgil Stokes wrote:
>>
>>> Not sure about "tac" --- could you provide more details on this
>>> and/or a simple example of how it could be used for fast reversed
>>> "reading" of a data file ?
>>    tac is available as a command under linux ....
>>
>>    $ whatis tac
>>    tac (1) - concatenate and print files in reverse
>>
>>    $ whereis tac
>>    tac: /usr/bin/tac /usr/bin/X11/tac /usr/share/man/man1/tac.1.gz
>>
>>    $ man tac
>>
>>    SYNOPSIS
>>      tac [OPTION]... [FILE]...
>>
>>    DESCRIPTION
>>
>>      Write each FILE to standard output, last line first.
>>
>>      With no FILE, or when FILE is -, read standard input.
>>
>>
>>    I only know that the  tac  command exists
>>    but have never used it myself ....
>>
>>
> Unfortunately, I may be forced to process the data on a Windows
> platform; but, thanks Cousin for the Linux tip.

Well, addressing that specific point, tac is available for Windows:

  http://unxutils.sourceforge.net/

No idea how efficient it is...

TJG



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct 24 04:17:39 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 10:17:39 +0200
Subject: Split single file into multiple files based on patterns
References: <9ae3b43a-5c69-4232-a1cf-e2dd0c4ee2ca@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k68869$l89$1@ger.gmane.org>

satyam wrote:

> I have a text file like this
> 
> A1980JE39300007 2732 4195 12.527000
> A1980JE39300007 3465 9720 22.000000
> A1980JE39300007 1853 3278 12.500000
> A1980JE39300007 2732 2732 187.500000
> A1980JE39300007 19 4688 3.619000
> A1980JE39300007 2995 9720 6.667000
> A1980JE39300007 1603 9720 30.000000
> A1980JE39300007 234 4195 42.416000
> A1980JE39300007 2732 9720 18.000000
> A1980KK18700010 130 303 4.985000
> A1980KK18700010 7 4915 0.435000
> A1980KK18700010 25 1620 1.722000
> A1980KK18700010 25 186 0.654000
> A1980KK18700010 50 130 3.199000
> A1980KK18700010 186 3366 4.780000
> A1980KK18700010 30 186 1.285000
> A1980KK18700010 30 185 4.395000
> A1980KK18700010 185 186 9.000000
> A1980KK18700010 25 30 3.493000
> 
> I want to split the file and get multiple files like A1980JE39300007.txt
> and A1980KK18700010.txt, where each file will contain column2, 3 and 4.
> Thanks Satyam

import os
from itertools import groupby
from operator import itemgetter

get_key = itemgetter(0)
get_value = itemgetter(1)

output_folder = "tmp"
with open("infile.txt") as instream:
    pairs = (line.split(None, 1) for line in instream)
    for key, group in groupby(pairs, key=get_key):
        path = os.path.join(output_folder, key + ".txt")
        with open(path, "a") as outstream:
            outstream.writelines(get_value(line) for line in group)

If you are running the code more than once make sure that you remove the 
files from the previous run first.



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct 24 05:04:38 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 11:04:38 +0200
Subject: turn list of letters into an array of integers
References: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
	<CAMZYqRR+RMFMy0CiWTDbw_xm1n9EZPxN5HpyoyRSM114xNmGpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<k686ej$6r8$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <k68aub$ajr$1@ger.gmane.org>

Peter Otten wrote:

Brave new words:

> immortable

should be "immortal"



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Oct 24 05:08:54 2012
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 11:08:54 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: ANN: Urwid 1.1.0 - Usability and Documentation
In-Reply-To: <CAA3rUNd0e51hOe_qe_DcbF2mH6+QT=ZOa4CkRmzAqDyO=yH0pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1925719556.1474430.1351069734648.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>

----- Original Message -----
> Announcing Urwid 1.1.0
> ----------------------
> 
> Urwid home page:
>   http://excess.org/urwid/
> 
> Manual:
>   http://excess.org/urwid/docs/
> 
> Package:
>   http://pypi.python.org/pypi/urwid/1.1.0
> 
> 

[snip]

Hi,

I just had a look at it. Amazing job.


JM



-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: 

The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.

From wxjmfauth at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 05:32:17 2012
From: wxjmfauth at gmail.com (wxjmfauth at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 02:32:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: get each pair from a string.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2674.1351010504.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2594.1350845107.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1a8e1d4b-dddc-48c6-aec8-8041bb559a30@u4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
	<177aa300-9863-44f3-94da-7bc11bff2eda@i7g2000pbf.googlegroups.com>
	<7fdadf96-2ec2-43c7-a5e2-74228c06faca@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2674.1351010504.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ae632dbf-de0f-4b9a-91e5-1288f216f13f@googlegroups.com>

Le mardi 23 octobre 2012 18:41:45 UTC+2, Ian a ?crit?:
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 12:47 AM,  <wxjmfauth at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> In any case, have you been following the progress of issue 16061?
> 
> There is a patch for the str.replace regression that you identified,
> 
> which results in better performance across the board than 3.2.  So
> 
> although 3.3 is slower than 3.2 on this one microbenchmark, 3.4 will
> 
> not be.

Yes.
A workaround to solve one of the corner cases of something
which is wrong by design.

jmf


From wxjmfauth at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 05:32:17 2012
From: wxjmfauth at gmail.com (wxjmfauth at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 02:32:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: get each pair from a string.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2674.1351010504.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2594.1350845107.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1a8e1d4b-dddc-48c6-aec8-8041bb559a30@u4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
	<177aa300-9863-44f3-94da-7bc11bff2eda@i7g2000pbf.googlegroups.com>
	<7fdadf96-2ec2-43c7-a5e2-74228c06faca@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2674.1351010504.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ae632dbf-de0f-4b9a-91e5-1288f216f13f@googlegroups.com>

Le mardi 23 octobre 2012 18:41:45 UTC+2, Ian a ?crit?:
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 12:47 AM,  <wxjmfauth at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> In any case, have you been following the progress of issue 16061?
> 
> There is a patch for the str.replace regression that you identified,
> 
> which results in better performance across the board than 3.2.  So
> 
> although 3.3 is slower than 3.2 on this one microbenchmark, 3.4 will
> 
> not be.

Yes.
A workaround to solve one of the corner cases of something
which is wrong by design.

jmf


From daniel.dehennin at ac-dijon.fr  Wed Oct 24 05:32:24 2012
From: daniel.dehennin at ac-dijon.fr (Daniel Dehennin)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 11:32:24 +0200
Subject: [SOLVED] Re: Making `logging.basicConfig` log to *both* `sys.stderr`
	and `sys.stdout`?
In-Reply-To: <87objt5u16.fsf@daniel.eole.lan> (Daniel Dehennin's message of
	"Tue, 23 Oct 2012 13:04:21 +0200")
References: <34939e5a-19ba-4cc5-b10b-36f8b2e42830@h9g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<87objt5u16.fsf@daniel.eole.lan>
Message-ID: <87y5iww6zb.fsf_-_@daniel.eole.lan>

Daniel Dehennin <Daniel.Dehennin at ac-dijon.fr> writes:

> Hello,

Hi


[...]

> I tried to setup the same for my scripts with
> "logging.config.dictConfig()" without much success, I want to limit
> output to stdout to INFO, everything bellow INFO should be sent to
> stderr instead.
>
> Any hints?

I finally find a solution for my script, I added a filter.

Regards.

#+begin_src python
class UniqLevelFilter(logging.Filter):
    def __init__(self, level):
        self._level = level

    def filter(self, rec):
        return rec.levelno == self._level

def init_logging(options):
    # TODO: color stderr messages by level if sys.stderr.isatty()
    # http://stackoverflow.com/questions/384076/how-can-i-color-python-logging-output
    # http://plumberjack.blogspot.fr/2010/12/colorizing-logging-output-in-terminals.html
    config = { 'version' : 1,
               'filters' : { 'stdout' : { '()' : '__main__.UniqLevelFilter',
                                          'level' : logging.INFO, },
                },
               'formatters' : { 'stdout' : { 'format' : '%(message)s',
                                             'datefmt' : '', },
                                'stderr' : { 'format' : '%(message)s',
                                             'datefmt' : '', },
                },
               'handlers' : { 'stdout' : { 'class' : 'logging.StreamHandler',
                                           'stream' : 'ext://sys.stdout',
                                           'level' : 'INFO',
                                           'filters' : ['stdout'],
                                           'formatter' : 'stdout', },
                              'stderr' : { 'class' : 'logging.StreamHandler', 
                                           'stream' : 'ext://sys.stderr',
                                           'level' : 'WARNING', 
                                           'formatter' : 'stderr', }
                },
               'root' : { 'level' : options.log_level.upper(),
                          'handlers' : ['stdout', 'stderr'],
                },
    }

    logging.config.dictConfig( config )
    return logging.getLogger()

#+end_src

-- 
Daniel Dehennin
EOLE
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From mortenengv at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 06:37:40 2012
From: mortenengv at gmail.com (Morten Engvoldsen)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 16:07:40 +0530
Subject: Python input function not working in 2.7 version
Message-ID: <CAJ2vgs4UwT_eEstMXB2GVG+bmkfS+-tAiqv04ASH26qTc8e2HQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I am facing issue with input() of Python 2.7. When i run the program it
doesn't display any line to take user input . Below is the code:

def user_input()
   fat_grams = input("How many grams of fat are in one serving? ")
   total_calories = input("How many total calories are in one serving? ")
   print("A food product having {0} fat grams and {1} total
calories",fat_grams,
total_calories);
   return;

def main():
   if __name__ == "__main__": main()

Also i would like to display fat_grams where {0} place holder is there and
total_calories where {1} place holder is there.
That is if :
fat_grams = 3
total_calories = 270

Output should be: A food product having 3 fat grams and 270 total calories.

But the above print function doesn't display the out put in same way. I am
new to Python and i appreciate your help in advance.

Look forward to hear from your team soon and have a nice day.

Regards,
Morten
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 06:52:21 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 21:52:21 +1100
Subject: Python input function not working in 2.7 version
In-Reply-To: <CAJ2vgs4UwT_eEstMXB2GVG+bmkfS+-tAiqv04ASH26qTc8e2HQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ2vgs4UwT_eEstMXB2GVG+bmkfS+-tAiqv04ASH26qTc8e2HQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqRR4LqWvYzjjK=ws2uATyZe9Eg7GkJXNrZ3OPm0BiX-w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 9:37 PM, Morten Engvoldsen <mortenengv at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am facing issue with input() of Python 2.7. When i run the program it
> doesn't display any line to take user input . Below is the code:
>
> But the above print function doesn't display the out put in same way. I am
> new to Python and i appreciate your help in advance.
>

Two points to note. Firstly, print is a statement in Python 2; you can
call on the print function with a future directive, but otherwise,
what you're doing there is passing a tuple to the print statement, so
it prints out like this:

('A food product having {0} fat grams and {1} total calories', 3, 270)


What you want, I think, is to explicitly use that as a format string:

print("A food product having {0} fat grams and {1} total
calories".format(fat_grams, total_calories))
A food product having 3 fat grams and 270 total calories

This then passes a single string to print, which works fine
(parentheses around a single thing do nothing; it's the comma that
makes the tuple, not the parens).

The second point to note is that, in Python 2, input() will *eval*
what the user types. Try your program and type in "1+2" (without the
quotes) at the prompt - you'll see that Python evaluates what you
typed, as though you'd entered "3". This is VERY DANGEROUS, and should
be avoided. Instead, use raw_input(), which does what you expect.

Alternatively, switch to Python 3, in which print is a function and
input() behaves exactly as you'd expect. But you'll still want to
explicitly call format().

Further reading:

http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html#future-statements
http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#input
http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#raw_input
http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#str.format
http://docs.python.org/py3k/

Note, incidentally, that even though str.format() is called "new-style
formatting", there's no deprecation of "percent-style formatting"
(similar to C's sprintf function), so if you're familiar with that,
you needn't feel compelled to switch.

Hope that helps!

ChrisA


From kdawg44 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 07:40:46 2012
From: kdawg44 at gmail.com (Kevin Holleran)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 07:40:46 -0400
Subject: Is there a way to programmatically turn on remote registry?
In-Reply-To: <CAN4UfGzrB8-P=ydCXiQ+rfJXn1kvfcpBHjz6eKctoY5Cz7HAJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN4UfGy6dkdtKiQ+ghh7=CirS9Lca8DOrHvEiKRefgWUSwVFDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671F47B@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
	<CAN4UfGx1JEzaTm_hKLH8Mf1N9qCB_d9qtNUTupFCkctUGaB2wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<c1t3881ofvciftl2pjpkkm4cfjeacvftkj@invalid.netcom.com>
	<CAN4UfGzz81jvkzMByhQ3MAjpdFT_eNy9oRfcwa2j_PGFpoTePw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508560AC.2080307@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGxLZXuR8VdzpunASfqudJVyp=Zds36evud-3cAy9cD2xw@mail.gmail.com>
	<50859EA6.7020602@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGynWcuq1nW=_9OKfOki-7hENCF6SRN5BtN60wyxFt0U6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<50865052.3030108@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGz9+wrBmCHQVWxiKPhvHGVHDSpo64Qmj_9yC=ia_2eeFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508691F2.6070001@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGwPgV6GYkWUPcmUqTeO_2HXxSWk5eB8wqbd6zQ-8iqLFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<5086BA1F.9090108@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGzrB8-P=ydCXiQ+rfJXn1kvfcpBHjz6eKctoY5Cz7HAJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN4UfGzK2ndbaqaQyz4KUcTHcFEtbbHqtZGkfHL5XjyXPC7QmQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Kevin Holleran <kdawg44 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 23/10/2012 16:17, Kevin Holleran wrote:
>> > I am still having a small implementation problem....
>> >
>> > [code]
>> > HKLM = winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
>> > NICs =
>> >
>> "SYSTEM\\CurrentControlSet\\Control\\Class\\{4D36E972-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002bE10318}"
>> >
>> >  registry = wmi.WMI(host, namespace="default").StdRegProv
>> >   _, names = registry.EnumKey(HKLM,NICs) # <-- Error
>> > [/code]
>> >
>> > [error]
>> >   File "wmi.pyc", line 241, in handle_com_error
>> > wmi.x_wmi: <x_wmi: Unexpected COM Error (-2147352567, 'Exception
>> > occurred.', (0,
>> >  u'SWbemProperty', u'Type mismatch ', None, 0, -2147217403), None)>
>> > [\error]
>>
>>
>> I can see nothing wrong with that. On my system the following code works
>> fine:
>>
>> <code>
>> import _winreg as winreg
>> import wmi
>>
>> host = "SVR18"
>>
>> HKLM = winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
>> NICs =
>>
>> "SYSTEM\\CurrentControlSet\\Control\\Class\\{4D36E972-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002bE10318}"
>>
>> registry = wmi.WMI(host, namespace="default").StdRegProv
>> _, names = registry.EnumKey(HKLM,NICs) # <-- Error
>>
>> print names
>>
>> </code>
>>
>> Am I understanding you correctly? Can you send me an interpreter
>> screendump showing the failure with the traceback (just in case anything
>> useful occurs to me when I see it)?
>>
>>
>> TJG
>>
>
> I will but I have to run to a meeting.  I will send over.  Another note,
> probably should have mentioned earlier, I am using py2exe & running the
> executable from the the machine that has access to these systems.
>
> Kevin
>

Here is the full traceback:

[output]
Scan_NIC_Driver_Info_1.2.py -i testing_MSK_Server.csv -o
MSK_Test_output.csv -u unreachable.csv
Parsing input file...

Connecting to IP...

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File
"D:\Development\Scripts\Python\Scan_NIC_Driver_Info\Scan_NIC_Driver_Info_
1.2.py", line 70, in <module>
    _, names = registry.EnumKey(HKLM,NICs)
  File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wmi.py", line 431, in __call__
    handle_com_error ()
  File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wmi.py", line 241, in handle_com_error
    raise klass (com_error=err)
wmi.x_wmi: <x_wmi: Unexpected COM Error (-2147352567, 'Exception
occurred.', (0,
 u'SWbemProperty', u'Type mismatch ', None, 0, -2147217403), None)>

[/output]

Basically, it parses a list of hosts from a CSV, outputs a series of lines:
host, driverDesc, diverDate, driverVersion.  Basically it pings the host
first to make sure its up.

Here are the relevant parts to the script:

[code]
 registry = wmi.WMI(host, namespace="default").StdRegProv
        _, names = registry.EnumKey(HKLM,NICs)
        print("Connected successfully.")
        try:
            for name in names:
                print name
                NIC = NICs + "\\" + name
                _, value_names, value_types = registry.EnumValues(HKLM, NIC)
                for value_name, value_type in zip(value_names, value_types):
                    if value_type == winreg.REG_SZ:
                        if value_name == "BusType":
                            _, busType = registry.GetStringValue(HKLM,
NICs, value_name)
                        elif value_name == "DriverDesc":
                            _, driverDesc = registry.GetStringValue(HKLM,
NICs, value_name)
                        elif value_name == "DriverDate":
                            _, driverDate = registry.GetStringValue(HKLM,
NICs, value_name)
                        elif value_name == "DriverVersion":
                            _, driverVersion =
registry.GetStringValue(HKLM, NICs, value_name)
                    if busType == 5:
                        outputline = host + "," + driverDesc + "," +
driverDate + "," + driverVersion + "\n"
                        print outputline
                        outputFile.write(outputLine)
        except:
            print "Unable to query registry key for NIC adapters"
[/code]

Thanks again.

Kevin
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From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Wed Oct 24 07:51:46 2012
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 12:51:46 +0100
Subject: Is there a way to programmatically turn on remote registry?
In-Reply-To: <CAN4UfGzK2ndbaqaQyz4KUcTHcFEtbbHqtZGkfHL5XjyXPC7QmQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN4UfGy6dkdtKiQ+ghh7=CirS9Lca8DOrHvEiKRefgWUSwVFDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671F47B@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
	<CAN4UfGx1JEzaTm_hKLH8Mf1N9qCB_d9qtNUTupFCkctUGaB2wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<c1t3881ofvciftl2pjpkkm4cfjeacvftkj@invalid.netcom.com>
	<CAN4UfGzz81jvkzMByhQ3MAjpdFT_eNy9oRfcwa2j_PGFpoTePw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508560AC.2080307@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGxLZXuR8VdzpunASfqudJVyp=Zds36evud-3cAy9cD2xw@mail.gmail.com>
	<50859EA6.7020602@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGynWcuq1nW=_9OKfOki-7hENCF6SRN5BtN60wyxFt0U6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<50865052.3030108@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGz9+wrBmCHQVWxiKPhvHGVHDSpo64Qmj_9yC=ia_2eeFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508691F2.6070001@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGwPgV6GYkWUPcmUqTeO_2HXxSWk5eB8wqbd6zQ-8iqLFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<5086BA1F.9090108@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGzrB8-P=ydCXiQ+rfJXn1kvfcpBHjz6eKctoY5Cz7HAJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN4UfGzK2ndbaqaQyz4KUcTHcFEtbbHqtZGkfHL5XjyXPC7QmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5087D652.1080308@timgolden.me.uk>

On 24/10/2012 12:40, Kevin Holleran wrote:> Here is the full traceback:
>
> [output]
> Scan_NIC_Driver_Info_1.2.py <http://Scan_NIC_Driver_Info_1.2.py> -i
> testing_MSK_Server.csv -o MSK_Test_output.csv -u unreachable.csv
> Parsing input file...
>
> Connecting to IP...
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File
> "D:\Development\Scripts\Python\Scan_NIC_Driver_Info\Scan_NIC_Driver_Info_
> 1.2.py <http://1.2.py>", line 70, in <module>
>     _, names = registry.EnumKey(HKLM,NICs)
>   File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wmi.py", line 431, in __call__
>     handle_com_error ()
>   File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wmi.py", line 241, in
handle_com_error
>     raise klass (com_error=err)
> wmi.x_wmi: <x_wmi: Unexpected COM Error (-2147352567, 'Exception
> occurred.', (0,
>  u'SWbemProperty', u'Type mismatch ', None, 0, -2147217403), None)>
>
> [/output]
>
> Basically, it parses a list of hosts from a CSV, outputs a series of
> lines: host, driverDesc, diverDate, driverVersion.  Basically it pings
> the host first to make sure its up.
>
> Here are the relevant parts to the script:
>
> [code]
>  registry = wmi.WMI(host, namespace="default").StdRegProv
>         _, names = registry.EnumKey(HKLM,NICs)

Could you confirm what version of Windows is running on the remote
machine? Also, could you show the output of the following, please:

<code>
import wmi

host = "<whatever>" # pick one

print wmi.WMI(host, namespace="default").StdRegProv

</code>


TJG


From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Wed Oct 24 08:03:52 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 05:03:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: turn list of letters into an array of integers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2727.1351058849.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2727.1351058849.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <72525506-d336-4181-8e90-56e092c29a2b@googlegroups.com>

Chris Rebert? 2012?10?24????UTC+8??2?07?29????
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:23 PM, seektime <michael.j.krause at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Here's some example code. The input is a list which is a "matrix" of letters:
> 
> >    a  b  a
> 
> >    b  b  a
> 
> >
> 
> > and I'd like to turn this into a Python array:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean a Python list. The datatype Python calls an `array` is very
> 
> different and relatively uncommonly used.
> 
> Although, confusingly, Python's lists are implemented using C arrays
> 
> rather than linked lists.

The list in python is a list of valid python objects.
For the number crunching part, please use  arrays in numarray and scipy. 

> 
> >   1 2 1
> 
> >   2 2 1
> 
> >
> 
> > so 1 replaces a, and 2 replaces b. Here's the code I have so far:
> 
> >
> 
> >>>> L=['a b a\n','b b a\n']
> 
> <snip>
> 
> >>>> seq
> 
> > '1 2 1\n 2 2 1\n'
> 
> >
> 
> > My question is how can I turn "seq" into a python array?
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say you're asking the wrong question. The better question is "Why
> 
> wasn't the result a list in the first place?". Many transformations
> 
> are cumbersome to express over just strings, which is why the first
> 
> job of most programs is to parse their input into a more convenient
> 
> structure that is suited to their main task(s).
> 
> 
> 
> This (along with some other improvements) leads to a better, somewhat
> 
> different program/algorithm:
> 
> 
> 
> letter2number = {'a': 1, 'b': 2}
> 
> with open("path/to/file.txt", "r") as f:
> 
>     result = [[letter2number[letter] for letter in
> 
> line.strip().split()] for line in f]
> 
> 
> 
> If it's safe to assume that the correspondence between the letters and
> 
> numbers isn't completely arbitrary, some further improvements are also
> 
> possible.
> 
> 
> 
> Some relevant docs:
> 
> http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#string-methods
> 
> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/datastructures.html#list-comprehensions
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> P.S.: I'm guessing you obtained `L` from file.readlines() or similar;
> 
> it is worth noting for future reference that the readlines() method is
> 
> considered somewhat deprecated.



From dihedral88888 at googlemail.com  Wed Oct 24 08:03:52 2012
From: dihedral88888 at googlemail.com (88888 Dihedral)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 05:03:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: turn list of letters into an array of integers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2727.1351058849.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2727.1351058849.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <72525506-d336-4181-8e90-56e092c29a2b@googlegroups.com>

Chris Rebert? 2012?10?24????UTC+8??2?07?29????
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:23 PM, seektime <michael.j.krause at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Here's some example code. The input is a list which is a "matrix" of letters:
> 
> >    a  b  a
> 
> >    b  b  a
> 
> >
> 
> > and I'd like to turn this into a Python array:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean a Python list. The datatype Python calls an `array` is very
> 
> different and relatively uncommonly used.
> 
> Although, confusingly, Python's lists are implemented using C arrays
> 
> rather than linked lists.

The list in python is a list of valid python objects.
For the number crunching part, please use  arrays in numarray and scipy. 

> 
> >   1 2 1
> 
> >   2 2 1
> 
> >
> 
> > so 1 replaces a, and 2 replaces b. Here's the code I have so far:
> 
> >
> 
> >>>> L=['a b a\n','b b a\n']
> 
> <snip>
> 
> >>>> seq
> 
> > '1 2 1\n 2 2 1\n'
> 
> >
> 
> > My question is how can I turn "seq" into a python array?
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say you're asking the wrong question. The better question is "Why
> 
> wasn't the result a list in the first place?". Many transformations
> 
> are cumbersome to express over just strings, which is why the first
> 
> job of most programs is to parse their input into a more convenient
> 
> structure that is suited to their main task(s).
> 
> 
> 
> This (along with some other improvements) leads to a better, somewhat
> 
> different program/algorithm:
> 
> 
> 
> letter2number = {'a': 1, 'b': 2}
> 
> with open("path/to/file.txt", "r") as f:
> 
>     result = [[letter2number[letter] for letter in
> 
> line.strip().split()] for line in f]
> 
> 
> 
> If it's safe to assume that the correspondence between the letters and
> 
> numbers isn't completely arbitrary, some further improvements are also
> 
> possible.
> 
> 
> 
> Some relevant docs:
> 
> http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#string-methods
> 
> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/datastructures.html#list-comprehensions
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> P.S.: I'm guessing you obtained `L` from file.readlines() or similar;
> 
> it is worth noting for future reference that the readlines() method is
> 
> considered somewhat deprecated.



From insideshoes at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 08:11:15 2012
From: insideshoes at gmail.com (inshu chauhan)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 14:11:15 +0200
Subject: classes
Message-ID: <CAFqGZRE1LbAgoOCAKuynYBw4Rj6++p+misZrsXmv1nwivHuNwg@mail.gmail.com>

I was just trying out a programme for learning classes in python

The prog below is showing an error which it should not show :

class Bag:
    def __init__(self, x):
        self.data = []

    def add(self, x):
        self.data.append(x)
    def addtwice(self, x):
         self.add(x)
         self.add(x)
y = Bag(4)
print " Adding twice of %4.2f gives " % (y.addtwice())


Error is :

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "Z:\learning Python\learn5.py", line 35, in <module>
    print " Adding twice of %4.2f gives " % (y.addtwice())
TypeError: addtwice() takes exactly 2 arguments (1 given)

why the prog is having this error with self nd x as arguments ???
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From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 24 08:14:48 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 13:14:48 +0100
Subject: get each pair from a string.
In-Reply-To: <ae632dbf-de0f-4b9a-91e5-1288f216f13f@googlegroups.com>
References: <CALyJZZURWQxgPTQcQo8kOdHkaOYbB6YE=U=vi6VrX9FoDH1gAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2594.1350845107.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<1a8e1d4b-dddc-48c6-aec8-8041bb559a30@u4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
	<177aa300-9863-44f3-94da-7bc11bff2eda@i7g2000pbf.googlegroups.com>
	<7fdadf96-2ec2-43c7-a5e2-74228c06faca@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2674.1351010504.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<ae632dbf-de0f-4b9a-91e5-1288f216f13f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k68lvi$e0h$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 24/10/2012 10:32, wxjmfauth at gmail.com wrote:
> Le mardi 23 octobre 2012 18:41:45 UTC+2, Ian a ?crit :
>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 12:47 AM,  <wxjmfauth at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> In any case, have you been following the progress of issue 16061?
>>
>> There is a patch for the str.replace regression that you identified,
>>
>> which results in better performance across the board than 3.2.  So
>>
>> although 3.3 is slower than 3.2 on this one microbenchmark, 3.4 will
>>
>> not be.
>
> Yes.
> A workaround to solve one of the corner cases of something
> which is wrong by design.
>
> jmf
>

Do you get paid money for acting as a complete moron or do you do it for 
free?

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 08:22:13 2012
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 13:22:13 +0100
Subject: turn list of letters into an array of integers
In-Reply-To: <72525506-d336-4181-8e90-56e092c29a2b@googlegroups.com>
References: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2727.1351058849.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<72525506-d336-4181-8e90-56e092c29a2b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k68mhj$jte$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/24/12 1:03 PM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:

> The list in python is a list of valid python objects.
> For the number crunching part, please use  arrays in numarray and scipy.

Your bot's database is laughably out of date.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From kdawg44 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 08:36:21 2012
From: kdawg44 at gmail.com (Kevin Holleran)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 08:36:21 -0400
Subject: Is there a way to programmatically turn on remote registry?
In-Reply-To: <5087D652.1080308@timgolden.me.uk>
References: <CAN4UfGy6dkdtKiQ+ghh7=CirS9Lca8DOrHvEiKRefgWUSwVFDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741671F47B@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>
	<CAN4UfGx1JEzaTm_hKLH8Mf1N9qCB_d9qtNUTupFCkctUGaB2wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<c1t3881ofvciftl2pjpkkm4cfjeacvftkj@invalid.netcom.com>
	<CAN4UfGzz81jvkzMByhQ3MAjpdFT_eNy9oRfcwa2j_PGFpoTePw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508560AC.2080307@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGxLZXuR8VdzpunASfqudJVyp=Zds36evud-3cAy9cD2xw@mail.gmail.com>
	<50859EA6.7020602@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGynWcuq1nW=_9OKfOki-7hENCF6SRN5BtN60wyxFt0U6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<50865052.3030108@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGz9+wrBmCHQVWxiKPhvHGVHDSpo64Qmj_9yC=ia_2eeFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508691F2.6070001@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGwPgV6GYkWUPcmUqTeO_2HXxSWk5eB8wqbd6zQ-8iqLFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<5086BA1F.9090108@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGzrB8-P=ydCXiQ+rfJXn1kvfcpBHjz6eKctoY5Cz7HAJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN4UfGzK2ndbaqaQyz4KUcTHcFEtbbHqtZGkfHL5XjyXPC7QmQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5087D652.1080308@timgolden.me.uk>
Message-ID: <CAN4UfGwv3Jgi-FGt5VbuPEfA5dft1DFofxQ5EX=12feHMif_cQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 7:51 AM, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:

> On 24/10/2012 12:40, Kevin Holleran wrote:> Here is the full traceback:
> >
> Could you confirm what version of Windows is running on the remote
> machine? Also, could you show the output of the following, please:
>
> <code>
> import wmi
>
> host = "<whatever>" # pick one
>
> print wmi.WMI(host, namespace="default").StdRegProv
>
> </code>
>
>
> TJG
>

The machine I am testing from is Windows7, the machine I will run this from
is running an exe generated from py2exe and is running Windows 2008 server.

The machines I am targeting are all Windows 2003 Server machines, though I
am hoping to also expand and use this script on a number of Windows XP
devices (which shouldn't be a problem...)

Here is the output as you requested.  Again thanks for your time & help.  I
hate monopolizing one person's time so much....


>python
ActivePython 2.7.2.5 (ActiveState Software Inc.) based on
Python 2.7.2 (default, Jun 24 2011, 12:22:14) [MSC v.1500 64 bit (AMD64)]
on win
32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import wmi
>>> host=""#removed from ouput....
>>> print wmi.WMI(host,namespace="default").StdRegProv
[Locale(1033), dynamic: ToInstance, provider("RegProv")]
class StdRegProv
{
        [implemented, static] uint32 CreateKey([IN] uint32 hDefKey =
2147483650,
 [IN] string sSubKeyName);
        [implemented, static] uint32 DeleteKey([IN] uint32 hDefKey =
2147483650,
 [IN] string sSubKeyName);
        [implemented, static] uint32 EnumKey([IN] uint32 hDefKey =
2147483650, [
IN] string sSubKeyName, [out] string sNames[]);
        [implemented, static] uint32 EnumValues([IN] uint32 hDefKey =
2147483650
, [IN] string sSubKeyName, [out] string sNames[], [out] sint32 Types[]);
        [implemented, static] uint32 DeleteValue([IN] uint32 hDefKey =
214748365
0, [IN] string sSubKeyName, [in] string sValueName);
        [implemented, static] uint32 SetDWORDValue([IN] uint32 hDefKey =
2147483
650, [IN] string sSubKeyName, [in] string sValueName, [in] uint32 uValue =
3);
        [implemented, static] uint32 GetDWORDValue([IN] uint32 hDefKey =
2147483
650, [IN] string sSubKeyName, [in] string sValueName, [out] uint32 uValue);
        [implemented, static] uint32 SetStringValue([IN] uint32 hDefKey =
214748
3650, [IN] string sSubKeyName, [in] string sValueName, [in] string sValue =
"hel
lo");
        [implemented, static] uint32 GetStringValue([IN] uint32 hDefKey =
214748
3650, [IN] string sSubKeyName, [in] string sValueName, [out] string sValue);
        [implemented, static] uint32 SetMultiStringValue([IN] uint32
hDefKey = 2
147483650, [IN] string sSubKeyName, [in] string sValueName, [in] string
sValue[]
 = {"hello", "there"});
        [implemented, static] uint32 GetMultiStringValue([IN] uint32
hDefKey = 2
147483650, [IN] string sSubKeyName, [in] string sValueName, [out] string
sValue[
]);
        [implemented, static] uint32 SetExpandedStringValue([IN] uint32
hDefKey
= 2147483650, [IN] string sSubKeyName, [in] string sValueName, [in] string
sValu
e = "%path%");
        [implemented, static] uint32 GetExpandedStringValue([IN] uint32
hDefKey
= 2147483650, [IN] string sSubKeyName, [in] string sValueName, [out] string
sVal
ue);
        [implemented, static] uint32 SetBinaryValue([IN] uint32 hDefKey =
214748
3650, [IN] string sSubKeyName, [in] string sValueName, [in] uint8 uValue[]
= {1,
 2});
        [implemented, static] uint32 GetBinaryValue([IN] uint32 hDefKey =
214748
3650, [IN] string sSubKeyName, [in] string sValueName, [out] uint8
uValue[]);
        [implemented, static] uint32 CheckAccess([IN] uint32 hDefKey =
214748365
0, [IN] string sSubKeyName, [in] uint32 uRequired = 3, [out] boolean
bGranted);
};

>>> registry=wmi.WMI(host,namespace="default").StdRegProv
>>> import _winreg as winreg
>>> HKLM = winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
>>> NICs =
"SYSTEM\\CurrentControlSet\\Control\\Class\\{4D36E972-E325-11CE-BFC1-
08002bE10318}"
>>> _, names=registry.EnumKey(HKLM,NICs)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wmi.py", line 431, in __call__
    handle_com_error ()
  File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wmi.py", line 241, in handle_com_error
    raise klass (com_error=err)
wmi.x_wmi: <x_wmi: Unexpected COM Error (-2147352567, 'Exception
occurred.', (0,
 u'SWbemProperty', u'Type mismatch ', None, 0, -2147217403), None)>
>>> print registry.EnumKey(HKLM,NICs)


Kevin
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 08:39:38 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 23:39:38 +1100
Subject: classes
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRE1LbAgoOCAKuynYBw4Rj6++p+misZrsXmv1nwivHuNwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRE1LbAgoOCAKuynYBw4Rj6++p+misZrsXmv1nwivHuNwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqognKpPmHhOTPyY1-hTN2k+R9toSaEu4Zy8UU2w9tA-Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 11:11 PM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com> wrote:
> print " Adding twice of %4.2f gives " % (y.addtwice())
>
>
> Error is :
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "Z:\learning Python\learn5.py", line 35, in <module>
>     print " Adding twice of %4.2f gives " % (y.addtwice())
> TypeError: addtwice() takes exactly 2 arguments (1 given)
>
> why the prog is having this error with self nd x as arguments ???

The first argument is 'self', which is being passed y, but you also
need to pass it a value to add twice. You're ignoring the argument to
__init__ so I don't know what your purpose is, but possibly you should
be saving that into self somewhere??

ChrisA


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 24 08:41:11 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 13:41:11 +0100
Subject: classes
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRE1LbAgoOCAKuynYBw4Rj6++p+misZrsXmv1nwivHuNwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRE1LbAgoOCAKuynYBw4Rj6++p+misZrsXmv1nwivHuNwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k68ngh$u49$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 24/10/2012 13:11, inshu chauhan wrote:
> I was just trying out a programme for learning classes in python
>
> The prog below is showing an error which it should not show :
>
> class Bag:
>      def __init__(self, x):
>          self.data = []

You do nothing with x here.

>
>      def add(self, x):
>          self.data.append(x)
>      def addtwice(self, x):
>           self.add(x)
>           self.add(x)
> y = Bag(4)

Create y with an argument of 4 which is discarded in the initialiser.

> print " Adding twice of %4.2f gives " % (y.addtwice())

There's no argument passed to addtwice here.

>
>
> Error is :
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "Z:\learning Python\learn5.py", line 35, in <module>
>      print " Adding twice of %4.2f gives " % (y.addtwice())
> TypeError: addtwice() takes exactly 2 arguments (1 given)

Exactly what I'd expect to happen.  What did you expect?

>
> why the prog is having this error with self nd x as arguments ???

What x argument?  Clearly wrong as I've pointed out above.

>
>
>

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From warem2888 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 08:45:51 2012
From: warem2888 at gmail.com (Constantine)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 05:45:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: News Software. Get TOP in the mass media and SE.
Message-ID: <48ad6577-fbae-48bb-8219-5196151bfeb5@googlegroups.com>


 News Software. Get TOP in the mass media and SE. Multithreaded submitting: over 500 running threads possible! Software can registration and posts message, able to work with lots of different types of resources. Over 200. Automatically fill in the required fields. The powerful built-in proxy-server. Protection bypass from automatic registration:tickets, captcha, E-mail activation, Java-script, ect. A built-in proprietary "Question-answer" and Antispam system. A variations system. Protect your posts from being filtered out by Panda and ect. User-friendly interface: you only need to choose the proper links database, create a message text and hit the 'Start' button. http://bit.ly/Vo3JT1


From insideshoes at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 08:48:45 2012
From: insideshoes at gmail.com (inshu chauhan)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 14:48:45 +0200
Subject: classes
In-Reply-To: <k68ngh$u49$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CAFqGZRE1LbAgoOCAKuynYBw4Rj6++p+misZrsXmv1nwivHuNwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<k68ngh$u49$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAFqGZRHRVBvvhBdcXUSb-h=fCFRVYS-SBGXRroRe=EMxRkjYaw@mail.gmail.com>

I was just trying out a programme for learning classes in python
>>
>> The prog below is showing an error which it should not show :
>>
>> class Bag:
>>      def __init__(self, x):
>>          self.data = []
>>
>
> You do nothing with x here. Right so x shouldnot be in the argument.
>
Fine

*class Bag:
>      def __init__(self):
>          self.data = []*
>
>
>>      def add(self, x):
>>          self.data.append(x)
>>      def addtwice(self, x):
>>           self.add(x)
>>           self.add(x)
>> y = Bag(4)
>>
>
> Create y with an argument of 4 'which is discarded in the initialiser.'
> means ??
>
>
>  print " Adding twice of %4.2f gives " % (y.addtwice())
>>
>
> There's no argument passed to addtwice here. ' why am I not passing y to
> addtwice here ??
>
>
>
>>
>> Error is :
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>    File "Z:\learning Python\learn5.py", line 35, in <module>
>>      print " Adding twice of %4.2f gives " % (y.addtwice())
>> TypeError: addtwice() takes exactly 2 arguments (1 given)
>>
>
> Exactly what I'd expect to happen.  What did you expect? I am learning
> ....
>
>
>
>> why the prog is having this error with self nd x as arguments ???
>>
>
> What x argument?  Clearly wrong as I've pointed out above. How can i
> correct it ??
>
>
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Cheers.
>
> Mark Lawrence.
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 08:51:30 2012
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (andrea crotti)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 13:51:30 +0100
Subject: resume execution after catching with an excepthook?
Message-ID: <CAF_E5JaM42aBt9ZJ0XFy_sp=fXgPZHwO0j7wbXqYMq4bxB-bUg@mail.gmail.com>

So I would like to be able to ask for confirmation when I receive a C-c,
and continue if the answer is "N/n".

I'm already using an exception handler set with sys.excepthook, but I
can't make it work with the confirm_exit, because it's going to quit in
any case..

A possible solution would be to do a global "try/except
KeyboardInterrupt", but since I already have an excepthook I wanted to
use this.  Any way to make it continue where it was running after the
exception is handled?


def confirm_exit():
    while True:
        q = raw_input("This will quit the program, are you sure? [y/N]")
        if q in ('y', 'Y'):
            sys.exit(0)
        elif q in ('n', 'N'):
            print("Continuing execution")
            # just go back to normal execution, is it possible??
            break


def _exception_handler(etype, value, tb):
    if etype == KeyboardInterrupt:
        confirm_exit()
    else:
        sys.exit(1)


def set_exception_handler():
    sys.excepthook = _exception_handler


From d at davea.name  Wed Oct 24 08:55:28 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 08:55:28 -0400
Subject: classes
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRE1LbAgoOCAKuynYBw4Rj6++p+misZrsXmv1nwivHuNwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRE1LbAgoOCAKuynYBw4Rj6++p+misZrsXmv1nwivHuNwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5087E540.8060504@davea.name>

On 10/24/2012 08:11 AM, inshu chauhan wrote:
> I was just trying out a programme for learning classes in python
>
> The prog below is showing an error which it should not show :
>
> class Bag:
>     def __init__(self, x):
>         self.data = []
>
>     def add(self, x):
>         self.data.append(x)
>     def addtwice(self, x):
>          self.add(x)
>          self.add(x)
> y = Bag(4)
> print " Adding twice of %4.2f gives " % (y.addtwice())
>
Perhaps you're confusing the two x parameters.  They are totally
independent local variables, and the value of one is not in any way
"remembered" for the other.  When you want to save things between
multiple methods of an object, then store them in the object, perhaps in
self.data  As it stands, the __init__ does not save the x at all, so the
4 that's passed into the initializer is thrown away.

You call addtwice(), but don't supply any value to add.  y serves as the
self value, but you have no x value.  What value did you intend to add?

You'll have another problem, in that addtwice() doesn't return any value
(so it returns None).  Therefore the print isn't going to work.  Please
separate the print from the calculations, and the problems will be lots
easier to figure out.  The wording of the string implies it's going to
display two values, but the only value given it is None.

> Error is :
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "Z:\learning Python\learn5.py", line 35, in <module>
>     print " Adding twice of %4.2f gives " % (y.addtwice())
> TypeError: addtwice() takes exactly 2 arguments (1 given)
>
> why the prog is having this error with self nd x as arguments ???
>
>
self and x are parameters.  You don't pass an argument for x to be bound to.




-- 

DaveA



From insideshoes at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 09:02:47 2012
From: insideshoes at gmail.com (inshu chauhan)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 15:02:47 +0200
Subject: classes
In-Reply-To: <5087E540.8060504@davea.name>
References: <CAFqGZRE1LbAgoOCAKuynYBw4Rj6++p+misZrsXmv1nwivHuNwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5087E540.8060504@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CAFqGZRFxfe=_N+1mhSD7ObedHgy6j9vKUhMgbU0smfOEC-wEyg@mail.gmail.com>

I changed the programme to this :
class Bag:
    def __init__(self):
        self.data = []

    def add(self, x):
        self.data.append(x)
    def addtwice(self, x):
         self.add(x)
         self.add(x)
         return x
y = Bag()
print y.addtwice(4)

Now its not showing any error but result is same as the number passed for
adding twice ....


On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 2:55 PM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:

> On 10/24/2012 08:11 AM, inshu chauhan wrote:
> > I was just trying out a programme for learning classes in python
> >
> > The prog below is showing an error which it should not show :
> >
> > class Bag:
> >     def __init__(self, x):
> >         self.data = []
> >
> >     def add(self, x):
> >         self.data.append(x)
> >     def addtwice(self, x):
> >          self.add(x)
> >          self.add(x)
> > y = Bag(4)
> > print " Adding twice of %4.2f gives " % (y.addtwice())
> >
> Perhaps you're confusing the two x parameters.  They are totally
> independent local variables, and the value of one is not in any way
> "remembered" for the other.  When you want to save things between
> multiple methods of an object, then store them in the object, perhaps in
> self.data  As it stands, the __init__ does not save the x at all, so the
> 4 that's passed into the initializer is thrown away.
>
> You call addtwice(), but don't supply any value to add.  y serves as the
> self value, but you have no x value.  What value did you intend to add?
>
> You'll have another problem, in that addtwice() doesn't return any value
> (so it returns None).  Therefore the print isn't going to work.  Please
> separate the print from the calculations, and the problems will be lots
> easier to figure out.  The wording of the string implies it's going to
> display two values, but the only value given it is None.
>
> > Error is :
> >
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "Z:\learning Python\learn5.py", line 35, in <module>
> >     print " Adding twice of %4.2f gives " % (y.addtwice())
> > TypeError: addtwice() takes exactly 2 arguments (1 given)
> >
> > why the prog is having this error with self nd x as arguments ???
> >
> >
> self and x are parameters.  You don't pass an argument for x to be bound
> to.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> DaveA
>
>
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From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 24 09:09:00 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 14:09:00 +0100
Subject: classes
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRHRVBvvhBdcXUSb-h=fCFRVYS-SBGXRroRe=EMxRkjYaw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRE1LbAgoOCAKuynYBw4Rj6++p+misZrsXmv1nwivHuNwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<k68ngh$u49$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAFqGZRHRVBvvhBdcXUSb-h=fCFRVYS-SBGXRroRe=EMxRkjYaw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k68p55$dlp$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 24/10/2012 13:48, inshu chauhan wrote:
> I was just trying out a programme for learning classes in python
>>>
>>> The prog below is showing an error which it should not show :
>>>
>>> class Bag:
>>>       def __init__(self, x):
>>>           self.data = []
>>>
>>
>> You do nothing with x here. Right so x shouldnot be in the argument.
>>
> Fine
>
> *class Bag:
>>       def __init__(self):
>>           self.data = []*
>>
>>
>>>       def add(self, x):
>>>           self.data.append(x)
>>>       def addtwice(self, x):
>>>            self.add(x)
>>>            self.add(x)

No return given so it will default to returning None, but...

>>> y = Bag(4)
>>>
>>
>> Create y with an argument of 4 'which is discarded in the initialiser.'
>> means ??
>>
>>
>>   print " Adding twice of %4.2f gives " % (y.addtwice())

...you seem to be expecting addtwice to be returning a Python float. 
Only you can tell us why as I've not yet gone to first year mind reading 
classes :)

>>>
>>
>> There's no argument passed to addtwice here. ' why am I not passing y to
>> addtwice here ??

You are passing y, it's called self.  Why aren't you passing x?

>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Error is :
>>>
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>     File "Z:\learning Python\learn5.py", line 35, in <module>
>>>       print " Adding twice of %4.2f gives " % (y.addtwice())
>>> TypeError: addtwice() takes exactly 2 arguments (1 given)
>>>
>>
>> Exactly what I'd expect to happen.  What did you expect? I am learning
>> ....
>>
>>
>>
>>> why the prog is having this error with self nd x as arguments ???
>>>
>>
>> What x argument?  Clearly wrong as I've pointed out above. How can i
>> correct it ??

Put whatever it is you want appended to self.data in the call to 
y.addtwice.  And/or get addtwice to return the correct data type. 
And/or correct anything that I've missed like I did the first time around.

>>
>>
>> --
>> Cheers.
>>
>> Mark Lawrence.
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Wed Oct 24 09:11:46 2012
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 14:11:46 +0100
Subject: Is there a way to programmatically turn on remote registry?
In-Reply-To: <CAN4UfGwv3Jgi-FGt5VbuPEfA5dft1DFofxQ5EX=12feHMif_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN4UfGy6dkdtKiQ+ghh7=CirS9Lca8DOrHvEiKRefgWUSwVFDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN4UfGx1JEzaTm_hKLH8Mf1N9qCB_d9qtNUTupFCkctUGaB2wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<c1t3881ofvciftl2pjpkkm4cfjeacvftkj@invalid.netcom.com>
	<CAN4UfGzz81jvkzMByhQ3MAjpdFT_eNy9oRfcwa2j_PGFpoTePw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508560AC.2080307@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGxLZXuR8VdzpunASfqudJVyp=Zds36evud-3cAy9cD2xw@mail.gmail.com>
	<50859EA6.7020602@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGynWcuq1nW=_9OKfOki-7hENCF6SRN5BtN60wyxFt0U6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<50865052.3030108@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGz9+wrBmCHQVWxiKPhvHGVHDSpo64Qmj_9yC=ia_2eeFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508691F2.6070001@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGwPgV6GYkWUPcmUqTeO_2HXxSWk5eB8wqbd6zQ-8iqLFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<5086BA1F.9090108@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGzrB8-P=ydCXiQ+rfJXn1kvfcpBHjz6eKctoY5Cz7HAJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN4UfGzK2ndbaqaQyz4KUcTHcFEtbbHqtZGkfHL5XjyXPC7QmQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5087D652.1080308@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGwv3Jgi-FGt5VbuPEfA5dft1DFofxQ5EX=12feHMif_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5087E912.3090600@timgolden.me.uk>

On 24/10/2012 13:36, Kevin Holleran wrote:
> Here is the output as you requested.  Again thanks for your time & help.
>  I hate monopolizing one person's time so much....

Heh. Everyone else is welcome to chip in :)

Ok, try specifying the parameter names. (I remember someone having
problems before caused by mismatched param order):

<code>
import wmi
import _winreg as winreg

host = "..."
HKLM = winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
NICs =
"SYSTEM\\CurrentControlSet\\Control\\Class\\{4D36E972-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002bE10318}"

registry = wmi.WMI(host, namespace="default").StdRegProv
registry.EnumKey(hDefKey=HKLM, sSubKeyName=NICs)

</code>

TJG


From kdawg44 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 09:26:27 2012
From: kdawg44 at gmail.com (Kevin Holleran)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:26:27 -0400
Subject: Is there a way to programmatically turn on remote registry?
In-Reply-To: <5087E912.3090600@timgolden.me.uk>
References: <CAN4UfGy6dkdtKiQ+ghh7=CirS9Lca8DOrHvEiKRefgWUSwVFDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN4UfGx1JEzaTm_hKLH8Mf1N9qCB_d9qtNUTupFCkctUGaB2wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<c1t3881ofvciftl2pjpkkm4cfjeacvftkj@invalid.netcom.com>
	<CAN4UfGzz81jvkzMByhQ3MAjpdFT_eNy9oRfcwa2j_PGFpoTePw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508560AC.2080307@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGxLZXuR8VdzpunASfqudJVyp=Zds36evud-3cAy9cD2xw@mail.gmail.com>
	<50859EA6.7020602@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGynWcuq1nW=_9OKfOki-7hENCF6SRN5BtN60wyxFt0U6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<50865052.3030108@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGz9+wrBmCHQVWxiKPhvHGVHDSpo64Qmj_9yC=ia_2eeFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508691F2.6070001@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGwPgV6GYkWUPcmUqTeO_2HXxSWk5eB8wqbd6zQ-8iqLFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<5086BA1F.9090108@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGzrB8-P=ydCXiQ+rfJXn1kvfcpBHjz6eKctoY5Cz7HAJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN4UfGzK2ndbaqaQyz4KUcTHcFEtbbHqtZGkfHL5XjyXPC7QmQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5087D652.1080308@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGwv3Jgi-FGt5VbuPEfA5dft1DFofxQ5EX=12feHMif_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5087E912.3090600@timgolden.me.uk>
Message-ID: <CAN4UfGzn8m4fTiFkrL0fqHG4xRivxEKQMzwgDomiJeCRpD5nmQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 9:11 AM, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:

> On 24/10/2012 13:36, Kevin Holleran wrote:
> > Here is the output as you requested.  Again thanks for your time & help.
> >  I hate monopolizing one person's time so much....
>
> Heh. Everyone else is welcome to chip in :)
>
> Ok, try specifying the parameter names. (I remember someone having
> problems before caused by mismatched param order):
>
>
>
OK, tried that as well as specifying the parameters directly instead of
through variables, with the same result....  I even looked back through my
old scripts but I have not used the WMI module in this way... only to do
WMI queries...

Strange....

Kevin
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From roy at panix.com  Wed Oct 24 09:35:55 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:35:55 -0400
Subject: PIL and requests don't get along
References: <k66mc3$ed3$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2725.1351058163.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-E1A4A4.09355524102012@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2725.1351058163.27098.python-list at python.org>,
 Kushal Kumaran <kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 23 Oct 2012 14:06:59 -0400, roy at panix.com (Roy Smith) wrote:
> > I have a url from which I can get an image.  I want to use PIL to
> > manipulate that image.  Getting the image is easy:
> > 
> > >>> import requests
> > >>> r = requests.get(url)
> > 
> > There's a bunch of factory functions for Image, but none of them seem
> > to take anything that requests is willing to give you.  Image.new()
> > requires that you pass it the image size.  Image.open() takes a file
> > object, but
> > 
> > >>> Image.open(r.raw)
> > 
> > doesn't work because r.raw gives you a socket which doesn't support
> > seek().  I end up doing:
> > 
> > >>> r = requests.get(url)
> > >>> data = cStringIO.StringIO(r.content)
> > >>> image = Image.open(data)
> > 
> > which works, but it's gross.  Is there something I'm missing here?
> 
> That is pretty much what the requests module documentation says here:
> 
> http://docs.python-requests.org/en/latest/user/quickstart/#binary-response-con
> tent

Heh, I hadn't even noticed that.  I guess this is as good as it gets.


From emile at fenx.com  Wed Oct 24 09:47:51 2012
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 06:47:51 -0700
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <k679kb$rs1$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>	<CA+vVgJV6feUL0gTPC==3fp3Wq8zvRXgoyhVaUYnZNtMfF8qpLw@mail.gmail.com>	<CA+vVgJWnAThHhD4cUJzXLGdVojCNA1oV_qKYwa+7UsEqS=x7XQ@mail.gmail.com>	<CA+vVgJUNOZD3vBVFDXvXzdXb=c5THQG+B5dSOp_uF1nqDHhPug@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJV2A7oJQCRGFypqsfYXHNVxSuhWJUhCF+FM4NWnXanGcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<k679kb$rs1$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <k68ri9$4e6$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/23/2012 4:35 PM, emile wrote:

> So, let's see, at that point in time (building backward) you've got
> probably somewhere close to 400-500Gb in memory.
>
> My guess -- probably not so fast.  Thrashing is sure to be a factor on
> all but machines I'll never have a chance to work on.


I went looking for a machine capable of this and got about halfway there 
with http://www.tech-news.com/publib/pl2818.html which allows up to 
248Gb memory -- near as I can tell the price for the maxed out system is 
$2,546,200. Plus $3k/mo maintenance. Memory's still not quite enough, 
but I'll bet it's fast.  And a lot more reasonable at $1000 per Gb of 
memory particularly when contrasted to the $1000 I paid for a single Mb 
of memory back in 1984 or thereabouts.

Emile




From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 09:48:36 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 00:48:36 +1100
Subject: classes
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRFxfe=_N+1mhSD7ObedHgy6j9vKUhMgbU0smfOEC-wEyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRE1LbAgoOCAKuynYBw4Rj6++p+misZrsXmv1nwivHuNwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5087E540.8060504@davea.name>
	<CAFqGZRFxfe=_N+1mhSD7ObedHgy6j9vKUhMgbU0smfOEC-wEyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoCqLEcPA00ZQgp-y6Ptbo6kjrYQUq8VFJKxWpc8-Q5Tg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:02 AM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com> wrote:
> I changed the programme to this :
>     def addtwice(self, x):
>          self.add(x)
>          self.add(x)
>          return x
> y = Bag()
> print y.addtwice(4)
>
> Now its not showing any error but result is same as the number passed for
> adding twice ....

Do you understand how function calls work? A function like
"y.addtwice" is called with an argument of 4, and the return value
from the function is the value of the expression.

some_value = y.addtwice(4)
print some_value

Take the return value and put it in the place where the function call
was. In this case, the return value is x, the number you passed in as
an argument.

What exactly do you expect addtwice to return? Should it return the
bag object (self)? Should it return True to say that it's been added
successfully (or False if there's an error)? Should it return the
number of items in the bag? Should it return 0 for success and a
nonzero error code for failure? Should it always return None, throwing
an exception if anything goes wrong? All of these make sense, you just
have to choose which one you want.

(I'm handwaving away a lot of complexity here, like un/bound methods
and member lookups. Bear with me. I'm also ignoring the fact that some
things just aren't Pythonic. The bear isn't complaining about that, so
nor should you.)

ChrisA


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Wed Oct 24 09:56:57 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 13:56:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
	<mailman.2694.1351029058.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<50871ff6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <k68s38$lqr$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-23, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:

> I would be very surprised if the poster will be able to fit 100
> gigabytes of data into even a single list comprehension, let alone
> two.
>
> This is a classic example of why the old external processing
> algorithms of the 1960s and 70s will never be obsolete. No matter how
> much memory you have, there will always be times when you want to
> process more data than you can fit into memory.

Too true.  One of the projects I did in grad school about 20 years ago
was a plugin for some fancy data visualization software (I think it
was DX: http://www.research.ibm.com/dx/). My plugin would subsample
"on the fly" a selected section of a huge 2D array of data in a file.
IBM and SGI had all sorts of widgets you could use to sample,
transform and visualize data, but they all assumed that the input data
would fit into virtual memory.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I Know A Joke!!
                                  at               
                              gmail.com            


From insideshoes at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 10:02:02 2012
From: insideshoes at gmail.com (inshu chauhan)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 16:02:02 +0200
Subject: classes
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmoCqLEcPA00ZQgp-y6Ptbo6kjrYQUq8VFJKxWpc8-Q5Tg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRE1LbAgoOCAKuynYBw4Rj6++p+misZrsXmv1nwivHuNwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5087E540.8060504@davea.name>
	<CAFqGZRFxfe=_N+1mhSD7ObedHgy6j9vKUhMgbU0smfOEC-wEyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoCqLEcPA00ZQgp-y6Ptbo6kjrYQUq8VFJKxWpc8-Q5Tg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFqGZRFNvL_RWYsk+o-x04AGwXRB4c2H4Ap7eRYHMw7-49jgtA@mail.gmail.com>

ok.. This was an example i was trying to run from
http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html   ...

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:02 AM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I changed the programme to this :
> >     def addtwice(self, x):
> >          self.add(x)
> >          self.add(x)
> >          return x
> > y = Bag()
> > print y.addtwice(4)
> >
> > Now its not showing any error but result is same as the number passed for
> > adding twice ....
>
> Do you understand how function calls work? A function like
> "y.addtwice" is called with an argument of 4, and the return value
> from the function is the value of the expression.
>
> some_value = y.addtwice(4)
> print some_value
>
> Take the return value and put it in the place where the function call
> was. In this case, the return value is x, the number you passed in as
> an argument.
>
> What exactly do you expect addtwice to return? Should it return the
> bag object (self)? Should it return True to say that it's been added
> successfully (or False if there's an error)? Should it return the
> number of items in the bag? Should it return 0 for success and a
> nonzero error code for failure? Should it always return None, throwing
> an exception if anything goes wrong? All of these make sense, you just
> have to choose which one you want.
>
> (I'm handwaving away a lot of complexity here, like un/bound methods
> and member lookups. Bear with me. I'm also ignoring the fact that some
> things just aren't Pythonic. The bear isn't complaining about that, so
> nor should you.)
>
> ChrisA
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 10:07:12 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 01:07:12 +1100
Subject: classes
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRFNvL_RWYsk+o-x04AGwXRB4c2H4Ap7eRYHMw7-49jgtA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRE1LbAgoOCAKuynYBw4Rj6++p+misZrsXmv1nwivHuNwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5087E540.8060504@davea.name>
	<CAFqGZRFxfe=_N+1mhSD7ObedHgy6j9vKUhMgbU0smfOEC-wEyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoCqLEcPA00ZQgp-y6Ptbo6kjrYQUq8VFJKxWpc8-Q5Tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRFNvL_RWYsk+o-x04AGwXRB4c2H4Ap7eRYHMw7-49jgtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmotkh3p8zk35r7PGsjPk0B4XDOpm-JgwNxDC1xmmBpm2Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 1:02 AM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com> wrote:
> ok.. This was an example i was trying to run from
> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html   ...

I would strongly recommend going back a bit in the tutorial and
reading about functions:

http://docs.python.org/tutorial/controlflow.html#defining-functions

And unless you have a particular need for Python 2, consider learning
the current Python version instead:

http://docs.python.org/py3k/tutorial/index.html

ChrisA


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Wed Oct 24 10:12:50 2012
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 15:12:50 +0100
Subject: Is there a way to programmatically turn on remote registry?
In-Reply-To: <CAN4UfGzn8m4fTiFkrL0fqHG4xRivxEKQMzwgDomiJeCRpD5nmQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN4UfGy6dkdtKiQ+ghh7=CirS9Lca8DOrHvEiKRefgWUSwVFDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN4UfGzz81jvkzMByhQ3MAjpdFT_eNy9oRfcwa2j_PGFpoTePw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508560AC.2080307@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGxLZXuR8VdzpunASfqudJVyp=Zds36evud-3cAy9cD2xw@mail.gmail.com>
	<50859EA6.7020602@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGynWcuq1nW=_9OKfOki-7hENCF6SRN5BtN60wyxFt0U6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<50865052.3030108@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGz9+wrBmCHQVWxiKPhvHGVHDSpo64Qmj_9yC=ia_2eeFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508691F2.6070001@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGwPgV6GYkWUPcmUqTeO_2HXxSWk5eB8wqbd6zQ-8iqLFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<5086BA1F.9090108@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGzrB8-P=ydCXiQ+rfJXn1kvfcpBHjz6eKctoY5Cz7HAJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN4UfGzK2ndbaqaQyz4KUcTHcFEtbbHqtZGkfHL5XjyXPC7QmQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5087D652.1080308@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGwv3Jgi-FGt5VbuPEfA5dft1DFofxQ5EX=12feHMif_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5087E912.3090600@timgolden.me.uk>
	<CAN4UfGzn8m4fTiFkrL0fqHG4xRivxEKQMzwgDomiJeCRpD5nmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5087F762.7080305@timgolden.me.uk>

On 24/10/2012 14:26, Kevin Holleran wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 9:11 AM, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk
>     Ok, try specifying the parameter names. (I remember someone having
>     problems before caused by mismatched param order):
> 
> 
> 
> OK, tried that as well as specifying the parameters directly instead of
> through variables, with the same result....  I even looked back through
> my old scripts but I have not used the WMI module in this way... only to
> do WMI queries...

Couple of things:

Does the same thing happen if you run against your own machine?

What's the result of the code below (which is basically "raw" WMI,
without the wmi module):

<code>
import _winreg as winreg

import win32com.client

HKLM = winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
NICs =
"SYSTEM\\CurrentControlSet\\Control\\Class\\{4D36E972-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002bE10318}"

registry = win32com.client.GetObject("winmgmts:/root/default:StdRegProv")
EnumKey = registry.Methods_("EnumKey")
params = EnumKey.InParameters.SpawnInstance_()
params.Properties_.Item("hDefKey").Value = HKLM
params.Properties_.Item("sSubKeyName").Value = NICs

OutParameters = registry.ExecMethod_("EnumKey", params)
print OutParameters.Properties_.Item("ReturnValue")
print OutParameters.Properties_.Item("sNames")


</code>

TJG



From chess at us.ibm.com  Wed Oct 24 10:22:43 2012
From: chess at us.ibm.com (David M Chess)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 10:22:43 -0400
Subject: Getting a TimedRotatingFileHandler not to put two dates in the
	same file?
In-Reply-To: <50872C71.1080105@davea.name>
References: <OFF42E9E1E.D755EB22-ON85257AA0.00534D0A-85257AA0.005487C9@us.ibm.com>
	<50872C71.1080105@davea.name>
Message-ID: <OF64287997.5D5F7D3C-ON85257AA1.004E6726-85257AA1.004EFC9C@us.ibm.com>

> d at davea.name
>
> On 10/23/2012 11:23 AM, David M Chess wrote:
> > We have a TimedRotatingFileHandler with when='midnight'
>
> You give us no clue what's in this class, or how it comes up with the
> filenames used.

Sorry if I was unclear.  This isn't my own subclass of 
TimedRotatingFileHandler or anything, this is the bog-standard 
logging.handlers.TimedRotatingFileHandler I'm talking about.

So all clues about what's in the class, and how it comes up with the 
filenames used, is available at

http://docs.python.org/library/logging.handlers.html#timedrotatingfilehandler 


:)

The specific Python version involved here is Python 2.6.6 (r266:84297, Aug 
24 2010, 18:46:32), to the extent that that matters...

>> This works great, splitting the log information across files by date, 
as 
>> long as the process is actually up at midnight.
>>
>> But now the users have noticed that if the process isn't up at 
midnight, 
>> they can end up with lines from two (or I guess potentially more) dates 
in 
>> the same log file.
>>
>> Is there some way to fix this, either with cleverer arguments into the 
>> TimedRotatingFileHandler, or by some plausible subclassing of it or its 

>> superclass?

Tx,
DC

--
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From insideshoes at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 10:37:01 2012
From: insideshoes at gmail.com (inshu chauhan)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 16:37:01 +0200
Subject: Appending a list using list obtained from a class
Message-ID: <CAFqGZRGcM+kuW3zf85mcBfvBG=FBd2CCm5o-zBu9mVYp-ehkvQ@mail.gmail.com>

I am having a problem,

I have a class which return me a list. I want to append another list using
this list outside the Class.
can i do it ? if yes how ?
And can i use Userlist function for this ??
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From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 10:41:51 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 07:41:51 -0700
Subject: Appending a list using list obtained from a class
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRGcM+kuW3zf85mcBfvBG=FBd2CCm5o-zBu9mVYp-ehkvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRGcM+kuW3zf85mcBfvBG=FBd2CCm5o-zBu9mVYp-ehkvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1BA49B0B-47E0-4683-9A49-FC2DFCC5C7C2@gmail.com>


On 2012-10-24, at 7:37 AM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am having a problem, 
> 
> I have a class which return me a list. I want to append another list using this list outside the Class. 
> can i do it ? if yes how ? 
> And can i use Userlist function for this ??
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


If I understand your question correctly, have you read http://docs.python.org/tutorial/datastructures.html? 

list_a + list_b = list_c
list_a.extend(list_b)

are two methods to concatenate two lists.

UserList is only there for backwards compatibility (see the docs: http://docs.python.org/release/2.3/lib/module-UserList.html)

Demian Brecht
@demianbrecht
http://demianbrecht.github.com






From insideshoes at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 10:45:04 2012
From: insideshoes at gmail.com (inshu chauhan)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 16:45:04 +0200
Subject: Appending a list using list obtained from a class
In-Reply-To: <1BA49B0B-47E0-4683-9A49-FC2DFCC5C7C2@gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRGcM+kuW3zf85mcBfvBG=FBd2CCm5o-zBu9mVYp-ehkvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1BA49B0B-47E0-4683-9A49-FC2DFCC5C7C2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFqGZRHxfmmWXjBxU2YixaJN6PQhqgMrqc5k-m-ujV_Mxn_2=g@mail.gmail.com>

yes this i know very well.. but the problem is not so simple...

the class is returning the list , and i want to append the list outside the
class... main problem is this

I know how to append a list with a list nd stuff..

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Demian Brecht <demianbrecht at gmail.com>wrote:

>
> On 2012-10-24, at 7:37 AM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I am having a problem,
> >
> > I have a class which return me a list. I want to append another list
> using this list outside the Class.
> > can i do it ? if yes how ?
> > And can i use Userlist function for this ??
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> If I understand your question correctly, have you read
> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/datastructures.html?
>
> list_a + list_b = list_c
> list_a.extend(list_b)
>
> are two methods to concatenate two lists.
>
> UserList is only there for backwards compatibility (see the docs:
> http://docs.python.org/release/2.3/lib/module-UserList.html)
>
> Demian Brecht
> @demianbrecht
> http://demianbrecht.github.com
>
>
>
>
>
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From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 10:50:34 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 07:50:34 -0700
Subject: Appending a list using list obtained from a class
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRHxfmmWXjBxU2YixaJN6PQhqgMrqc5k-m-ujV_Mxn_2=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRGcM+kuW3zf85mcBfvBG=FBd2CCm5o-zBu9mVYp-ehkvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1BA49B0B-47E0-4683-9A49-FC2DFCC5C7C2@gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRHxfmmWXjBxU2YixaJN6PQhqgMrqc5k-m-ujV_Mxn_2=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E6ED38F6-63F9-4330-A5D5-EB5656D8D6FB@gmail.com>


On 2012-10-24, at 7:45 AM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com> wrote:

> the class is returning the list , and i want to append the list outside the class... main problem is this

What do you mean "the class is returning the list"? Do you mean that a class stores a list internally and you want to be able to mutate that list? Do you mean that you have a class method that returns a list? How does your particular use case differ from simply appending one list to another?


> I know how to append a list with a list nd stuff..

Without further clarification, this seems to be exactly what you're asking how to do..


Demian Brecht
@demianbrecht
http://demianbrecht.github.com






From lishaojun2012 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 10:54:15 2012
From: lishaojun2012 at gmail.com (Shaojun Li)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 22:54:15 +0800
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <CAPqbz=ZedE-ef3kkGhobAm1BOODBVQ8eywsKt_OWRHVaR1jAWg@mail.gmail.com>


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From insideshoes at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 11:00:35 2012
From: insideshoes at gmail.com (inshu chauhan)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 17:00:35 +0200
Subject: Appending a list using list obtained from a class
In-Reply-To: <E6ED38F6-63F9-4330-A5D5-EB5656D8D6FB@gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRGcM+kuW3zf85mcBfvBG=FBd2CCm5o-zBu9mVYp-ehkvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1BA49B0B-47E0-4683-9A49-FC2DFCC5C7C2@gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRHxfmmWXjBxU2YixaJN6PQhqgMrqc5k-m-ujV_Mxn_2=g@mail.gmail.com>
	<E6ED38F6-63F9-4330-A5D5-EB5656D8D6FB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFqGZRFHdsJ6w2kKaS_6xyKL0ddCYJbsjm1kjTghx0ukQH-hVw@mail.gmail.com>

> the class is returning the list , and i want to append the list outside
the class... main problem is this

>
> What do you mean "the class is returning the list"? Do you mean that a
> class stores a list internally and you want to be able to mutate that list?
> Do you mean that you have a class method that returns a list? How does your
> particular use case differ from simply appending one list to another?
>

Yes, a Class method returns a list. I am trying to append this in main() to
make another list.
But the list i am getting after appending i showing addresses like this
'<__main__.Point object at 0x0254FAB0>' but if i print the same in the same
loop its showing me numbers which i want. Why I dont know ??



>
>
> > I know how to append a list with a list nd stuff..
>
> Without further clarification, this seems to be exactly what you're asking
> how to do.. yeah may i make misunderstanding
>
>
> Demian Brecht
> @demianbrecht
> http://demianbrecht.github.com
>
>
>
>
>
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From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 11:04:44 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 08:04:44 -0700
Subject: Appending a list using list obtained from a class
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRFHdsJ6w2kKaS_6xyKL0ddCYJbsjm1kjTghx0ukQH-hVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRGcM+kuW3zf85mcBfvBG=FBd2CCm5o-zBu9mVYp-ehkvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1BA49B0B-47E0-4683-9A49-FC2DFCC5C7C2@gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRHxfmmWXjBxU2YixaJN6PQhqgMrqc5k-m-ujV_Mxn_2=g@mail.gmail.com>
	<E6ED38F6-63F9-4330-A5D5-EB5656D8D6FB@gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRFHdsJ6w2kKaS_6xyKL0ddCYJbsjm1kjTghx0ukQH-hVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65ED09AC-A4A5-4502-BF39-F665F25F96A8@gmail.com>

On 2012-10-24, at 8:00 AM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, a Class method returns a list. I am trying to append this in main() to make another list. 
> But the list i am getting after appending i showing addresses like this '<__main__.Point object at 0x0254FAB0>' but if i print the same in the same loop its showing me numbers which i want. Why I dont know ??

If you can, please post the relevant blocks of code. That'll be a tremendous help in figuring out your problem.

Demian Brecht
@demianbrecht
http://demianbrecht.github.com






From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Oct 24 11:08:22 2012
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 08:08:22 -0700
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se>
	<CA+vVgJV6feUL0gTPC==3fp3Wq8zvRXgoyhVaUYnZNtMfF8qpLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJWnAThHhD4cUJzXLGdVojCNA1oV_qKYwa+7UsEqS=x7XQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJUNOZD3vBVFDXvXzdXb=c5THQG+B5dSOp_uF1nqDHhPug@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJV2A7oJQCRGFypqsfYXHNVxSuhWJUhCF+FM4NWnXanGcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<k679kb$rs1$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2764.1351086495.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xbofr7vrt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Emile van Sebille <emile at fenx.com> writes:
>> probably somewhere close to 400-500Gb in memory....
> I went looking for a machine capable of this and got about halfway
> there with http://www.tech-news.com/publib/pl2818.html which allows up
> to 248Gb memory -- near as I can tell the price for the maxed out
> system is $2,546,200. Plus $3k/mo maintenance. 

1x http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816101317
@ $1400

+ 8x http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820239276
@ $658

+ 4x http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113036
@ $520

+ 2x 

= $8744 for a 64-core box with 512GB of ram.  Add another $1000 or so
for disks/SSD's depending on configuration.  Not bad.  There were times
I coulda used something like this.



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 11:11:37 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 08:11:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
References: <mailman.2667.1351003942.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <069780e5-43ee-48de-9257-fc0f16ec39d7@s9g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 23, 7:52?pm, Virgil Stokes <v... at it.uu.se> wrote:
> I am working with some rather large data files (>100GB) that contain time series
> data. The data (t_k,y(t_k)), k = 0,1,...,N are stored in ASCII format. I perform
> various types of processing on these data (e.g. moving median, moving average,
> and Kalman-filter, Kalman-smoother) in a sequential manner and only a small
> number of these data need be stored in RAM when being processed. When performing
> Kalman-filtering (forward in time pass, k = 0,1,...,N) I need to save to an
> external file several variables (e.g. 11*32 bytes) for each (t_k, y(t_k)). These
> are inputs to the Kalman-smoother (backward in time pass, k = N,N-1,...,0).
> Thus, I will need to input these variables saved to an external file from the
> forward pass, in reverse order --- from last written to first written.
>
> Finally, to my question --- What is a fast way to write these variables to an
> external file and then read them in backwards?

Have you tried gdbm/bsddbm? They are meant for such (I believe).
Probably needs to be installed for windows; works for linux.
If I were you I'd try out with the giant data on linux and see if the
problem is solved, then see how to install for windows


From schesis at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 11:14:26 2012
From: schesis at gmail.com (Zero Piraeus)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 11:14:26 -0400
Subject: classes
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRFxfe=_N+1mhSD7ObedHgy6j9vKUhMgbU0smfOEC-wEyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRE1LbAgoOCAKuynYBw4Rj6++p+misZrsXmv1nwivHuNwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5087E540.8060504@davea.name>
	<CAFqGZRFxfe=_N+1mhSD7ObedHgy6j9vKUhMgbU0smfOEC-wEyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANaSqUeHEvoPvuKzMOsYD8z1s6sXDV1XJQOZKvBh+cbd=n7pGQ@mail.gmail.com>

:

On 24 October 2012 09:02, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com> wrote:
> I changed the programme to this :
> class Bag:
>     def __init__(self):
>
>         self.data = []
>
>     def add(self, x):
>         self.data.append(x)
>     def addtwice(self, x):
>          self.add(x)
>          self.add(x)
>          return x
> y = Bag()
> print y.addtwice(4)
>
> Now its not showing any error but result is same as the number passed for
> adding twice ....

That's because, although Bag.addtwice() is appending x to self.data a
couple of times, it isn't changing x - so

  return x

will just give back what you supplied as an argument. If you'd written

  return self.data

instead [or just done 'print y.data' after calling addtwice()], you'd
see that something has in fact happened to y.

By the way ... while Bag.addtwice() is legal Python [and I understand
that you're just playing around here], a method that both "does
something" [changes the object] and "gives something" [returns a
useful value] when that's not strictly necessary isn't brilliant
style.

Consider a couple of methods on built-in Python types:

>>> a = [4, 1, 3, 2]
>>> a.sort()                     # doesn't return anything useful, but ...
>>> a                            # ... changes 'a':
[1, 2, 3, 4]
>>> b = "one, two, three, four"
>>> b.title()                    # returns something useful ...
'One, Two, Three, Four'
>>> b                            # ... but doesn't change 'b':
'one, two, three, four'
>>>

A good rule for methods is "do one thing well". Sometimes doing that
one thing will necessarily mean both changing the object and returning
something - as in the pop() method on lists, for example - but where
possible, it's better to stick to one of "doing" or "giving".

 -[]z.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 11:18:38 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 02:18:38 +1100
Subject: classes
In-Reply-To: <CANaSqUeHEvoPvuKzMOsYD8z1s6sXDV1XJQOZKvBh+cbd=n7pGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRE1LbAgoOCAKuynYBw4Rj6++p+misZrsXmv1nwivHuNwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5087E540.8060504@davea.name>
	<CAFqGZRFxfe=_N+1mhSD7ObedHgy6j9vKUhMgbU0smfOEC-wEyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANaSqUeHEvoPvuKzMOsYD8z1s6sXDV1XJQOZKvBh+cbd=n7pGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoEwnrsPsHEO7wRqKhyNd_P3qDpXu3bRfOPfZF0FSY69g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 2:14 AM, Zero Piraeus <schesis at gmail.com> wrote:
> By the way ... while Bag.addtwice() is legal Python [and I understand
> that you're just playing around here], a method that both "does
> something" [changes the object] and "gives something" [returns a
> useful value] when that's not strictly necessary isn't brilliant
> style.

Side point: It's not that it's *bad* code or even bad style; it just
isn't the way Python generally does things.

ChrisA


From wrw at mac.com  Wed Oct 24 11:38:42 2012
From: wrw at mac.com (wrw at mac.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 11:38:42 -0400
Subject: Getting a TimedRotatingFileHandler not to put two dates in the
	same file?
In-Reply-To: <OF64287997.5D5F7D3C-ON85257AA1.004E6726-85257AA1.004EFC9C@us.ibm.com>
References: <OFF42E9E1E.D755EB22-ON85257AA0.00534D0A-85257AA0.005487C9@us.ibm.com>
	<50872C71.1080105@davea.name>
	<OF64287997.5D5F7D3C-ON85257AA1.004E6726-85257AA1.004EFC9C@us.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <F4F9C6AE-789B-449A-93E0-12155700D9F4@mac.com>


On Oct 24, 2012, at 10:22 AM, David M Chess <chess at us.ibm.com> wrote:

> >> This works great, splitting the log information across files by date, as 
> >> long as the process is actually up at midnight.
> >>
> >> But now the users have noticed that if the process isn't up at midnight, 
> >> they can end up with lines from two (or I guess potentially more) dates in 
> >> the same log file.
> >>
> >> Is there some way to fix this, either with cleverer arguments into the 
> >> TimedRotatingFileHandler, or by some plausible subclassing of it or its 
> >> superclass? 
> 
> Tx, 
> DC 


(After a VERY brief scan of the logging cookbook and modules.)
I don't think you have any choice but brute force.  If the program
wasn't up at midnight, then somehow it got restarted. You will have
to add logic to the restart code (or to the program itself that gets
run as it initializes).

Something like:

Does a log file exist? -> No ->  First run; create log file & continue
          |
         Yes
          |
  Read backwards looking for date change, copy lines after change
  to new file, delete from old file.

-Bill
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From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 24 11:48:53 2012
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 15:48:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Getting a TimedRotatingFileHandler not to put two dates in the
	same file?
References: <OFF42E9E1E.D755EB22-ON85257AA0.00534D0A-85257AA0.005487C9@us.ibm.com>
	<50872C71.1080105@davea.name>
	<OF64287997.5D5F7D3C-ON85257AA1.004E6726-85257AA1.004EFC9C@us.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20121024T173421-76@post.gmane.org>

David M Chess <chess <at> us.ibm.com> writes:

> >> But now the users have noticed that if the process isn't up at
> midnight, 
> >> they can end up with lines from two (or I guess potentially more)
> dates in 
> >> the same log file.
> >>
> >> Is there some way to fix this, either with cleverer arguments
> into the 
> >> TimedRotatingFileHandler, or by some plausible subclassing of
> it or its 
> >> superclass?

Well, of course you can subclass and override it to do what you want - there's
no magic there. The behaviour is as you would expect: the default behaviour of
a TimedRotatingFileHandler is to append, and roll over at midnight. So if your
program isn't running at midnight, it won't rotate:

Day 1. Run your program, stop it before midnight. The log file contains dates
from this day. No rotation occurred.

Day 2. Run your program again, stop it before midnight. The log file contains
dates from this day, and Day 1. No rotation occurred.

That's the symptom you're seeing, right?

You could do as Dave Angel suggested - just use a FileHandler with the name
derived from the date. If you don't want to or can't actually rotate files at
midnight, you're using the wrong tool for the job :-)

If you sometimes want to rotate at midnight (the process is running at that
time) and at other times not (the process isn't running then), you might have
to code startup logic in your program to deal with the vagaries of your
environment, since only you would know what they are :-)

Work is afoot to make the actual rollover time configurable (i.e. not forced
to be literally midnight) - see http://bugs.python.org/issue9556 - but that's
an enhancement request, not a bug, and so it'll see the light of day in Python
3.4, if at all. An implementation is in my sandbox repo at

http://hg.python.org/sandbox/vsajip

in branch fix9556. If all you need to do is rollover at a different time daily
(say 7 a.m.), you might be able to use this. Feel free to use that code as
inspiration for your subclass.

Regards,

Vinay Sajip



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Oct 24 11:56:19 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 11:56:19 -0400
Subject: turn list of letters into an array of integers
In-Reply-To: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
References: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k6933c$geo$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/24/2012 1:23 AM, seektime wrote:
> Here's some example code. The input is a list which is a "matrix" of letters:
>     a  b  a
>     b  b  a
>
> and I'd like to turn this into a Python array:
>
>    1 2 1
>    2 2 1
>
> so 1 replaces a, and 2 replaces b.

If you are going to replace single characters (letters) with single 
characters (digits), use maketrans and translate.

 >>> 'a b c'.translate(str.maketrans('abc', '123'))
'1 2 3'

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Oct 24 12:04:32 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 12:04:32 -0400
Subject: classes
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRE1LbAgoOCAKuynYBw4Rj6++p+misZrsXmv1nwivHuNwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRE1LbAgoOCAKuynYBw4Rj6++p+misZrsXmv1nwivHuNwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k693iq$krs$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/24/2012 8:11 AM, inshu chauhan wrote:
> I was just trying out a program for learning classes in python

I think you should work through or reread the Tutorial, especially the 
chapters on functions and classes.

You will also be slightly better off with Python 3, which only has one 
category of classes rather than two.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From schesis at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 12:10:07 2012
From: schesis at gmail.com (Zero Piraeus)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 12:10:07 -0400
Subject: classes
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmoEwnrsPsHEO7wRqKhyNd_P3qDpXu3bRfOPfZF0FSY69g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRE1LbAgoOCAKuynYBw4Rj6++p+misZrsXmv1nwivHuNwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5087E540.8060504@davea.name>
	<CAFqGZRFxfe=_N+1mhSD7ObedHgy6j9vKUhMgbU0smfOEC-wEyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANaSqUeHEvoPvuKzMOsYD8z1s6sXDV1XJQOZKvBh+cbd=n7pGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoEwnrsPsHEO7wRqKhyNd_P3qDpXu3bRfOPfZF0FSY69g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANaSqUdmjSNUvX-Urf0U2avVgxpxs47TNTCzEOpYZ4+QZhYzSA@mail.gmail.com>

:

On 24 October 2012 11:18, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 2:14 AM, Zero Piraeus <schesis at gmail.com> wrote:
>> [... on return values and side effects ...]
>
> Side point: It's not that it's *bad* code or even bad style;

It's a matter of taste, sure, but especially for a beginner, it's easy
to find yourself using a method for its return value and forgetting
that it actually does something to the object as well ... and then
getting bitten later.

> it just isn't the way Python generally does things.

When in Rome ... :-)

 -[]z.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 12:29:04 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 03:29:04 +1100
Subject: classes
In-Reply-To: <CANaSqUdmjSNUvX-Urf0U2avVgxpxs47TNTCzEOpYZ4+QZhYzSA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRE1LbAgoOCAKuynYBw4Rj6++p+misZrsXmv1nwivHuNwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5087E540.8060504@davea.name>
	<CAFqGZRFxfe=_N+1mhSD7ObedHgy6j9vKUhMgbU0smfOEC-wEyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANaSqUeHEvoPvuKzMOsYD8z1s6sXDV1XJQOZKvBh+cbd=n7pGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmoEwnrsPsHEO7wRqKhyNd_P3qDpXu3bRfOPfZF0FSY69g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANaSqUdmjSNUvX-Urf0U2avVgxpxs47TNTCzEOpYZ4+QZhYzSA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpRpkLoEoHEk7YBuC=jyO0+5xOF8XUy7f5ytziLrVr0KQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 3:10 AM, Zero Piraeus <schesis at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 24 October 2012 11:18, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 2:14 AM, Zero Piraeus <schesis at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> [... on return values and side effects ...]
>>
>> Side point: It's not that it's *bad* code or even bad style;
>
> It's a matter of taste, sure, but especially for a beginner, it's easy
> to find yourself using a method for its return value and forgetting
> that it actually does something to the object as well ... and then
> getting bitten later.
>
>> it just isn't the way Python generally does things.
>
> When in Rome ... :-)

Of course, and I'm not disagreeing with the original point made. It's
worth writing Pythonic code when writing Python code. It's just not
the only way to write.

ChrisA


From chess at us.ibm.com  Wed Oct 24 13:04:41 2012
From: chess at us.ibm.com (David M Chess)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 13:04:41 -0400
Subject: Getting a TimedRotatingFileHandler not to put two dates in the
	same file?
In-Reply-To: <F4F9C6AE-789B-449A-93E0-12155700D9F4@mac.com>
References: <OFF42E9E1E.D755EB22-ON85257AA0.00534D0A-85257AA0.005487C9@us.ibm.com>
	<50872C71.1080105@davea.name>
	<OF64287997.5D5F7D3C-ON85257AA1.004E6726-85257AA1.004EFC9C@us.ibm.com>
	<F4F9C6AE-789B-449A-93E0-12155700D9F4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <OF049E12DD.6B3F9620-ON85257AA1.005D8428-85257AA1.005DD0CD@us.ibm.com>

> wrw at mac.com 

> Something like:

> Does a log file exist? -> No ->  First run; create log file & continue
>          |
>         Yes
>          |
>  Read backwards looking for date change, copy lines after change
>  to new file, delete from old file.

Yep, I'm concluding that also.

It just wasn't clear to me from the documentation whether or not the 
existing TimedRotatingFileHandler had any "at startup, see if we missed 
any rollovers, and do them now if so" function, or if there was some known 
variant that does.  The answer, apparently, being "nope".  :)  Shouldn't 
be that hard to write, so that's probably what we'll do.

DC
---
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Oct 24 13:05:43 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 18:05:43 +0100
Subject: turn list of letters into an array of integers
In-Reply-To: <CAMZYqRR+RMFMy0CiWTDbw_xm1n9EZPxN5HpyoyRSM114xNmGpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
	<CAMZYqRR+RMFMy0CiWTDbw_xm1n9EZPxN5HpyoyRSM114xNmGpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50881FE7.8040307@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-24 07:07, Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:23 PM, seektime <michael.j.krause at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Here's some example code. The input is a list which is a "matrix" of letters:
>>    a  b  a
>>    b  b  a
>>
>> and I'd like to turn this into a Python array:
>
> You mean a Python list. The datatype Python calls an `array` is very
> different and relatively uncommonly used.
> Although, confusingly, Python's lists are implemented using C arrays
> rather than linked lists.
>
>>   1 2 1
>>   2 2 1
>>
>> so 1 replaces a, and 2 replaces b. Here's the code I have so far:
>>
>>>>> L=['a b a\n','b b a\n']
> <snip>
>>>>> seq
>> '1 2 1\n 2 2 1\n'
>>
>> My question is how can I turn "seq" into a python array?
>
> I'd say you're asking the wrong question. The better question is "Why
> wasn't the result a list in the first place?". Many transformations
> are cumbersome to express over just strings, which is why the first
> job of most programs is to parse their input into a more convenient
> structure that is suited to their main task(s).
>
> This (along with some other improvements) leads to a better, somewhat
> different program/algorithm:
>
> letter2number = {'a': 1, 'b': 2}
> with open("path/to/file.txt", "r") as f:
>      result = [[letter2number[letter] for letter in line.strip().split()] for line in f]
>
If you're using .split() then you don't need to use .strip() as well:

     result = [[letter2number[letter] for letter in line.split()] for 
line in f]

> If it's safe to assume that the correspondence between the letters and
> numbers isn't completely arbitrary, some further improvements are also
> possible.
>
> Some relevant docs:
> http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#string-methods
> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/datastructures.html#list-comprehensions
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
> P.S.: I'm guessing you obtained `L` from file.readlines() or similar;
> it is worth noting for future reference that the readlines() method is
> considered somewhat deprecated.
>



From wxjmfauth at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 13:27:27 2012
From: wxjmfauth at gmail.com (wxjmfauth at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 10:27:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: turn list of letters into an array of integers
In-Reply-To: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
References: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f48417af-de29-4be5-b80a-fef738888e7f@googlegroups.com>

Le mercredi 24 octobre 2012 07:23:11 UTC+2, seektime a ?crit?:
> Here's some example code. The input is a list which is a "matrix" of letters:
> 
>    a  b  a
> 
>    b  b  a
> 
> 
> 
> and I'd like to turn this into a Python array:
> 
> 
> 
>   1 2 1
> 
>   2 2 1
> 
> 
> 
> so 1 replaces a, and 2 replaces b. Here's the code I have so far:
> 
> 
> 
> >>> L=['a b a\n','b b a\n']
> 
> >>> s=' '.join(L)
> 
> >>> seq1=('a','b')
> 
> >>> seq2=('1','2')
> 
> >>> d = dict(zip(seq1,seq2))
> 
> >>> # Define method to replace letters according to dictionary (got this from http://gomputor.wordpress.com/2008/09/27/search-replace-multiple-words-or-characters-with-python/).
> 
> ... def replace_all(text, dic):
> 
> ...     for i, j in dic.iteritems():
> 
> ...         text = text.replace(i, j)
> 
> ...     return text
> 
> ... 
> 
> 
> 
> >>> seq = replace_all(s,d)
> 
> >>> print seq
> 
> 1 2 1
> 
>  2 2 1
> 
> 
> 
> >>> seq
> 
> '1 2 1\n 2 2 1\n'
> 
> 
> 
> My question is how can I turn "seq" into a python array?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Michael

Not so sure what you mean by an "array of integers".

>>> def z(s):
...     a = s.splitlines()
...     b = [e.split() for e in a]
...     for row in range(len(b)):
...         for col in range(len(b[row])):
...             b[row][col] = ord(b[row][col]) - ord('a')
...     return b
...     
>>> z('a b a\n b b a')
[[0, 1, 0], [1, 1, 0]]
>>> 
>>> # or
>>> table = {'a': 111, 'b': 222}
>>> 
>>> def z2(s, table):
...     a = s.splitlines()
...     b = [e.split() for e in a]
...     for row in range(len(b)):
...         for col in range(len(b[row])):
...             b[row][col] = table[b[row][col]]
...     return b
...     
>>> z2('a b a\n b b a', table)
[[111, 222, 111], [222, 222, 111]]
>>> 
>>> # note
>>> z('a\n b b b b b\n a a')
[[0], [1, 1, 1, 1, 1], [0, 0]]

jmf


From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 13:36:49 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 10:36:49 -0700
Subject: turn list of letters into an array of integers
In-Reply-To: <f48417af-de29-4be5-b80a-fef738888e7f@googlegroups.com>
References: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
	<f48417af-de29-4be5-b80a-fef738888e7f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <E8DCC25D-E144-488E-B965-0BDF13334D50@gmail.com>


On 2012-10-24, at 10:27 AM, wxjmfauth at gmail.com wrote:
> Not so sure what you mean by an "array of integers".


I wasn't entirely sure about that either. I assumed given the subject that it was just a 1-D array and could then be accessed by arr[(y * width) + x].

Demian Brecht
@demianbrecht
http://demianbrecht.github.com






From chess at us.ibm.com  Wed Oct 24 14:54:26 2012
From: chess at us.ibm.com (David M Chess)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 14:54:26 -0400
Subject: A lock that prioritizes acquire()s?
Message-ID: <OFB845143C.E36D6F51-ON85257AA1.0066C7C0-85257AA1.0067DD35@us.ibm.com>

Okay, next silly question.  :) 

We have a very simple multi-threaded system where a request comes in, 
starts running in a thread, and then (zero, one, or two times per request) 
gets to a serialization point, where the code does: 

with lock: 
  do_critical_section_stuff_that_might_take_awhile() 

and then continues. 

Which is almost the same as: 

lock.acquire() 
try: 
  do_critical_section_stuff_that_might_take_awhile() 
finally: 
  lock.release() 

Now we discover that It Would Be Nice if some requests got priority over 
others, as in something like: 

lock.acquire(importance=request.importance) 
try: 
  do_critical_section_stuff_that_might_take_awhile() 
finally: 
  lock.release() 

and when lock.release() occurs, the next thread that gets to run is one of 
the most important ones currently waiting in acquire() (that's the 
exciting new thing). 

Other requirements are that the code to do this be as simple as possible, 
and that it not mess anything else up.  :) 

My first thought was something like a new lock-ish class that would do 
roughly: 

class PriorityLock(object): 

    def __init__(self): 
        self._lock = threading.Lock() 
        self._waiter_map = {}  # maps TIDs to importance
 
    def acquire(self,importance=0): 
        this_thread = threading.currentThread() 
        self._waiter_map[this_thread] = importance # I want in 
        while True: 
            self._lock.acquire() 
            if ( max( self._waiter_map.values())<=importance ): # we win 
                del self._waiter_map[this_thread]  # not waiting anymore 
                return # return with lock acquired 
            self._lock.release()  # We are not most impt: release/retry
 
    def release(self): 
        self._lock.release() 

(Hope the mail doesn't garble that too badly.) 

Basically the acquire() method just immediately releases and tries again 
if it finds that someone more important is waiting. 

I think this is semantically correct, as long as the underlying lock 
implementation doesn't have starvation issues, and it's nice and simple, 
but on the other hand it looks eyerollingly inefficient. 

Seeking any thoughts on other/better ways to do this, or whether the 
inefficiency will be too eyerolling if we get say one request per second 
with an average service time a bit under a second but maximum service time 
well over a second, and most of them are importance zero, but every (many) 
seconds there will be one or two with higher importance. 

Tx, 
DC 

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From news**REMOVETHIS** at koster.tk  Wed Oct 24 14:55:35 2012
From: news**REMOVETHIS** at koster.tk (Muffinman)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 20:55:35 +0200
Subject: Listen for changes in variable (alsaaudio.Mixer(x,x).getvolume(x)
Message-ID: <508839a7$0$785$58c7af7e@news.kabelfoon.nl>

Hello all,

I'm new to Python (running 2.6.6 but if necessary 3.x should also be
fine). I have a little idea I hope to accomplish with Python. I want to
listen for changes in Alsa sound volume level and base some actions on
that. With the few lines below I can check the current volume level. Can
I extend this so that the script listens for changes in the volume level
and I can base some actions on it? As speed is quite important it's not
an option to poll every second or so for changes, it has to be close to
instantaneous.

If this is not possible with Python, any suggestions on what else are
also welcome of course.

Thanks in advance, Maarten


#############
try
    mixer = alsaaudio.Mixer(Fake, 0)
except alsaaudio.ALSAAudioError:
    sys.stderr.write("No such mixer\n")
    sys.exit(1)

volumes = mixer.getvolume(1)
#############


From mauriceling at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 15:36:55 2012
From: mauriceling at gmail.com (mauriceling@acm.org)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 12:36:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ANN] The Python Papers Anthology IndexCopernicus Value for 2011
Message-ID: <208d6323-5e95-4542-a7a2-7b9e299b6594@googlegroups.com>

Dear all

On behalf of the editorial committee of The Python Papers (overseeing The Python Papers, The Python Papers Monograph, and The Python Papers Source Codes), it is my pleasure to announce our first IndexCopernicus Value.

Title 	                        ISSN 	    INDEX COPERNICUS 2011
The Python Papers	        1834-3147	5.09
The Python Papers Source Codes	1836-621X	5.09
The Python Papers Monograph	1837-7092	5.09


In terms of PDF views, for TPP, we have 89 articles in total (not including frontmatters and editorials). Total of 103,335 gallery views (of which, 103,035 are PDF views), averaging 1161 views per article. The top view article "Implementation of Kalman Filter with Python Language", clocks up 8874 views.

For TPPM, we have 49 articles. Totaling 75,239 gallery views (of which, 73,536 are PDF views). The top article "Introduction to Computer Vision in Python", clocks up 11,458 views.

For TPPSC, we have only 11 articles but even then, the total gallery views is 17,259 (of which, 13,752 are PDF views).

Thank you everyone for your continued support.

Warm regards
Maurice Ling
Co-EIC, The Python Papers Anthology


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Oct 24 15:41:37 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 20:41:37 +0100
Subject: A lock that prioritizes acquire()s?
In-Reply-To: <OFB845143C.E36D6F51-ON85257AA1.0066C7C0-85257AA1.0067DD35@us.ibm.com>
References: <OFB845143C.E36D6F51-ON85257AA1.0066C7C0-85257AA1.0067DD35@us.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <50884471.2040403@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-24 19:54, David M Chess wrote:
>
> Okay, next silly question.  :)
>
> We have a very simple multi-threaded system where a request comes in,
> starts running in a thread, and then (zero, one, or two times per
> request) gets to a serialization point, where the code does:
>
> with lock:
>   do_critical_section_stuff_that_might_take_awhile()
>
> and then continues.
>
> Which is almost the same as:
>
> lock.acquire()
> try:
>   do_critical_section_stuff_that_might_take_awhile()
> finally:
>   lock.release()
>
> Now we discover that It Would Be Nice if some requests got priority over
> others, as in something like:
>
> lock.acquire(importance=request.importance)
> try:
>   do_critical_section_stuff_that_might_take_awhile()
> finally:
>   lock.release()
>
> and when lock.release() occurs, the next thread that gets to run is one
> of the most important ones currently waiting in acquire() (that's the
> exciting new thing).
>
> Other requirements are that the code to do this be as simple as
> possible, and that it not mess anything else up.  :)
>
> My first thought was something like a new lock-ish class that would do
> roughly:
>
> class PriorityLock(object):
>
>     def __init__(self):
>         self._lock = threading.Lock()
>         self._waiter_map = {}  # maps TIDs to importance
>
>     def acquire(self,importance=0):
>         this_thread = threading.currentThread()
>         self._waiter_map[this_thread] = importance # I want in
>         while True:
>             self._lock.acquire()
>             if ( max( self._waiter_map.values())<=importance ): # we win
>                 del self._waiter_map[this_thread]  # not waiting anymore
>                 return # return with lock acquired
>             self._lock.release()  # We are not most impt: release/retry
>
>     def release(self):
>         self._lock.release()
>
> (Hope the mail doesn't garble that too badly.)
>
> Basically the acquire() method just immediately releases and tries again
> if it finds that someone more important is waiting.
>
> I think this is semantically correct, as long as the underlying lock
> implementation doesn't have starvation issues, and it's nice and simple,
> but on the other hand it looks eyerollingly inefficient.
>
> Seeking any thoughts on other/better ways to do this, or whether the
> inefficiency will be too eyerolling if we get say one request per second
> with an average service time a bit under a second but maximum service
> time well over a second, and most of them are importance zero, but every
> (many) seconds there will be one or two with higher importance.
>
Here's my take on it:

class PriorityLock(object):

     def __init__(self):
         self._lock = threading.Lock()
         self._waiter_queue = []
         self._queue_lock = threading.Lock()

     def acquire(self, importance=0):
         this_thread = threading.currentThread()

         # Add this thread to the queue
         with self._queue_lock:
             self._waiter_queue.append((importance, this_thread))
             self._waiter_queue.sort(reverse=True, key=lambda pair: 
pair[0]) # Move the most important to the start.

         # Acquire and retain the lock when this thread is at the start 
of the queue.
         while True:
             self._lock.acquire()

             with self._queue_lock:
                 if self._waiter_queue[0][1] == this_thread: # We win.
                     del self._waiter_queue[0] # Not waiting anymore.
                     return # Return with lock acquired.

             self._lock.release() # We are not most important: release 
and retry.
             time.sleep(0.01) # Give the other threads a chance.

     def release(self):
         self._lock.release()



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 16:19:28 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 14:19:28 -0600
Subject: A lock that prioritizes acquire()s?
In-Reply-To: <OFB845143C.E36D6F51-ON85257AA1.0066C7C0-85257AA1.0067DD35@us.ibm.com>
References: <OFB845143C.E36D6F51-ON85257AA1.0066C7C0-85257AA1.0067DD35@us.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidm-CnE2TmizjSTU_Cx4iCgzpX14CeTu=ZotsHBX2u2DAQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 12:54 PM, David M Chess <chess at us.ibm.com> wrote:
> Seeking any thoughts on other/better ways to do this, or whether the
> inefficiency will be too eyerolling if we get say one request per second
> with an average service time a bit under a second but maximum service time
> well over a second, and most of them are importance zero, but every (many)
> seconds there will be one or two with higher importance.

I used a PriorityQueue and Conditions to get rid of the ugly while True loop.


import threading
from Queue import PriorityQueue, Empty

class PriorityLock(object):

    def __init__(self):
        self._is_available = True
        self._mutex = threading.Lock()
        self._waiter_queue = PriorityQueue()

    def acquire(self, priority=0):
        self._mutex.acquire()
        # First, just check the lock.
        if self._is_available:
            self._is_available = False
            self._mutex.release()
            return True
        condition = threading.Condition()
        condition.acquire()
        self._waiter_queue.put((priority, condition))
        self._mutex.release()
        condition.wait()
        condition.release()
        return True

    def release(self):
        self._mutex.acquire()
        # Notify the next thread in line, if any.
        try:
            _, condition = self._waiter_queue.get_nowait()
        except Empty:
            self._is_available = True
        else:
            condition.acquire()
            condition.notify()
            condition.release()
        self._mutex.release()

def test():
    import random, time

    def thread(lock, priority):
        lock.acquire(priority)
        print("Thread %d running" % priority)
        time.sleep(1)
        lock.release()
    lock = PriorityLock()
    threads = [threading.Thread(target=thread, args=(lock, x)) for x
in range(10)]
    random.shuffle(threads)
    for thread in threads:
        thread.start()
    for thread in threads:
        thread.join()

if __name__ == "__main__":
    test()


Output:

Thread 9 running
Thread 0 running
Thread 1 running
Thread 2 running
Thread 3 running
Thread 4 running
Thread 5 running
Thread 6 running
Thread 7 running
Thread 8 running

Note that with the PriorityQueue, lower priority values are retrieved
first.  Thread 9 ran first just by virtue of being first to the gate,
and after that you can see that everything went in order.

Cheers,
Ian


From dloewenherz at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 16:40:57 2012
From: dloewenherz at gmail.com (Dan Loewenherz)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 13:40:57 -0700
Subject: while expression feature proposal
Message-ID: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

This is my first post to this group--I'm not subscribed, so please CC
me in responses.

So I'm sure a lot of you have run into the following pattern. I use it
all the time and it always has felt a bit awkward due to the duplicate
variable assignment.

VAR = EXPR
while VAR:
    BLOCK
    VAR = EXPR

I'm curious what the possibility of adding the following to Python as
syntactic sugar:

while EXPR as VAR:
    BLOCK

Apologies if that has been proposed before. I searched the archives
and couldn't find any mention of it.

Best,
Dan


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 17:00:09 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 15:00:09 -0600
Subject: A lock that prioritizes acquire()s?
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidm-CnE2TmizjSTU_Cx4iCgzpX14CeTu=ZotsHBX2u2DAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <OFB845143C.E36D6F51-ON85257AA1.0066C7C0-85257AA1.0067DD35@us.ibm.com>
	<CALwzidm-CnE2TmizjSTU_Cx4iCgzpX14CeTu=ZotsHBX2u2DAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnGvGv-uK6DhJx2TNmmru3Dpe2Dhu9GUQipMd8rLCjUEw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> I used a PriorityQueue and Conditions to get rid of the ugly while True loop.

Same things, but with Events instead of Conditions.  This is just a
bit more readable.

The PriorityQueue is also probably unnecessary, since it's always
accessed with the mutex held.  A heapq would be fine.


import threading
import Queue

class PriorityLock(object):

    def __init__(self):
        self._is_available = True
        self._mutex = threading.Lock()
        self._waiter_queue = Queue.PriorityQueue()

    def acquire(self, priority=0):
        self._mutex.acquire()
        # First, just check the lock.
        if self._is_available:
            self._is_available = False
            self._mutex.release()
            return True
        event = threading.Event()
        self._waiter_queue.put((priority, event))
        self._mutex.release()
        event.wait()
        # When the event is triggered, we have the lock.
        return True

    def release(self):
        self._mutex.acquire()
        # Notify the next thread in line, if any.
        try:
            _, event = self._waiter_queue.get_nowait()
        except Queue.Empty:
            self._is_available = True
        else:
            event.set()
        self._mutex.release()


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 17:34:05 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 15:34:05 -0600
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Dan Loewenherz <dloewenherz at gmail.com> wrote:
> So I'm sure a lot of you have run into the following pattern. I use it
> all the time and it always has felt a bit awkward due to the duplicate
> variable assignment.
>
> VAR = EXPR
> while VAR:
>     BLOCK
>     VAR = EXPR

The idiomatic way to do this is:

while True:
    VAR = EXPR
    if not VAR:
        break
    BLOCK


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Wed Oct 24 17:54:32 2012
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 16:54:32 -0500
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>

On 10/24/12 16:34, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Dan Loewenherz <dloewenherz at gmail.com> wrote:
>> So I'm sure a lot of you have run into the following pattern. I use it
>> all the time and it always has felt a bit awkward due to the duplicate
>> variable assignment.
>>
>> VAR = EXPR
>> while VAR:
>>     BLOCK
>>     VAR = EXPR
> 
> The idiomatic way to do this is:
> 
> while True:
>     VAR = EXPR
>     if not VAR:
>         break
>     BLOCK

It may be idiomatic, but that doesn't stop it from being pretty
ugly.  I must say I really like the parity of Dan's

  while EXPR as VAR:
     BLOCK

proposal with the "with" statement.  It also doesn't fall prey to
the "mistaken-assignment vs. intentional-assignment" found in most
C-like languages.  I could see a pretty reasonable PEP coming from this.

-tkc








From chess at us.ibm.com  Wed Oct 24 18:04:15 2012
From: chess at us.ibm.com (David M Chess)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 18:04:15 -0400
Subject: A lock that prioritizes acquire()s?
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnGvGv-uK6DhJx2TNmmru3Dpe2Dhu9GUQipMd8rLCjUEw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <OFB845143C.E36D6F51-ON85257AA1.0066C7C0-85257AA1.0067DD35@us.ibm.com>	<CALwzidm-CnE2TmizjSTU_Cx4iCgzpX14CeTu=ZotsHBX2u2DAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidnGvGv-uK6DhJx2TNmmru3Dpe2Dhu9GUQipMd8rLCjUEw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OF6D21255A.D496990A-ON85257AA1.0078E647-85257AA1.00793DCA@us.ibm.com>

Lovely, thanks for the ideas!  I remember considering having release() 
pick the next thread to notify, where all the waiters were sitting on 
separate Conditions or whatever; not sure why I didn't pursue it to the 
end.  Probably distracted by something shiny; or insufficient brainpower. 
:)     DC
--

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From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Oct 24 18:19:14 2012
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 15:19:14 -0700
Subject: while expression feature proposal
References: <mailman.2795.1351111299.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xehkno6n1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dan Loewenherz <dloewenherz at gmail.com> writes:
> VAR = EXPR
> while VAR:
>     BLOCK
>     VAR = EXPR

for VAR in iter(lambda: EXPR, None):
   BLOCK

where the termination sentinel might be False or '' or whatever instead
of None.  Of course if EXPR is a callable, there's no lambda.

> while EXPR as VAR:
>     BLOCK

This is kind of nice.  I wonder if it could generalize "with" somehow,
i.e. use the context manager for EXPR if it has one.  Or maybe "iter"
could be generalized so you could pass an arbutrary predicate as
termination condition, instead of a single sentinel value.


From cs at zip.com.au  Wed Oct 24 18:26:56 2012
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 09:26:56 +1100
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
References: <50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <20121024222656.GA32708@cskk.homeip.net>

On 24Oct2012 16:54, Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
| On 10/24/12 16:34, Ian Kelly wrote:
| > On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Dan Loewenherz <dloewenherz at gmail.com> wrote:
| >> So I'm sure a lot of you have run into the following pattern. I use it
| >> all the time and it always has felt a bit awkward due to the duplicate
| >> variable assignment.
| >>
| >> VAR = EXPR
| >> while VAR:
| >>     BLOCK
| >>     VAR = EXPR
| > 
| > The idiomatic way to do this is:
| > 
| > while True:
| >     VAR = EXPR
| >     if not VAR:
| >         break
| >     BLOCK
| 
| It may be idiomatic, but that doesn't stop it from being pretty
| ugly.

Yes, but more flexible because it accomodates loops where the natural
place for the test is partway through the loop instead of right at the
top, which is quite common.

| I must say I really like the parity of Dan's
|   while EXPR as VAR:
|      BLOCK
| proposal with the "with" statement.

Well, it's nice. But usually EXPR will be a boolean. If you're inside
the loop you know it's true and don't need VAR. Of course, the glaring
counter example is things like regexp tests. I have a heap of code like
this:

  m = re_FUNKYPATTERN.match(test_string)
  if m:
    do stuff with the results of the match, using "m"

If I could write this as:

  if re_FUNKYPATTERN.match(test_string) as m:
    do stuff with the results of the match, using "m"

then some cascading parse decisions would feel a bit cleaner. Where I
current have this:

  m = re_CONSTRUCT1.match(line)
  if m:
    ... handle construct 1 ...
  else:
    m = re_CONSTRUCT2.match(line)
    if m:
      ... handle construct 2 ...
    else:
      m = re_CONSTRUCT3.match(line)

I could have this:

  if re_CONSTRUCT1.match(line) as m:
    ... handle construct 1 ...
  elif re_CONSTRUCT2.match(line) as m:
    ... handle construct 2 ...
  elif re_CONSTRUCT3.match(line) as m:

which is both more concise and also doesn't step inward.

But I'm still -0 on it, because it supplants the glaringly obvious:

  m = ...

assignment with the far less in your face:

  possibly-long-expr as m

and I think it would get quite heavily used, to the detriment of
assignment readability in general. At present the nature of most effects
is at the left. An assignment is obvious on the left, an if/with/while/etc
is visible at the left.

With statements and except statements have concrete use cases for the
"as" part that aren't doable without it, but the while/if...as form
can always be written in the current convention.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Oct 24 18:37:21 2012
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 15:37:21 -0700
Subject: while expression feature proposal
References: <50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2800.1351117627.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x625zo5su.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> writes:
>   if re_FUNKYPATTERN.match(test_string) as m:
>     do stuff with the results of the match, using "m"

  class memo:
     def __call__(f, *args, **kw):
        self.result = f(*args, **kw)

  m = memo()

  if result(re_FUNKYPATTERN.match, test_string):
       do stuff with the results of the match,
       using "m.result"

then

      if re_CONSTRUCT1.match(line) as m:
        ... handle construct 1 ...
      elif re_CONSTRUCT2.match(line) as m:
        ... handle construct 2 ...
      elif re_CONSTRUCT3.match(line) as m:

becomes

   if m(re_CONSTRUCT1.match, line):
     .. handle construct 1 ...
   elif m(re_CONSTRUCT2.match, line):
     .. handle construct 2 ...


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 18:40:00 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 09:40:00 +1100
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <20121024222656.GA32708@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<20121024222656.GA32708@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpnjKM_vk0HMCdQC6M0TPRbkWR87nLk3UNS7q9A4hNAeQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:26 AM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
> If I could write this as:
>
>   if re_FUNKYPATTERN.match(test_string) as m:
>     do stuff with the results of the match, using "m"

Then you'd be right there with C-like languages where assignment is an
expression :)

while (tok = strtok(blah,blah)) ... do something with tok ...

ChrisA


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Oct 24 18:47:17 2012
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 15:47:17 -0700
Subject: while expression feature proposal
References: <50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2800.1351117627.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x625zo5su.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <7xhapjzdvu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> writes:
>   class memo:
>      def __call__(f, *args, **kw):
>         self.result = f(*args, **kw)

obviously add

          return self.result 


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 18:54:14 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 16:54:14 -0600
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=u09Kb_pidNSHk7RG6ozOwiXP89a3qqY1zV+40xuz6GA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Tim Chase
<python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> It may be idiomatic, but that doesn't stop it from being pretty
> ugly.  I must say I really like the parity of Dan's
>
>   while EXPR as VAR:
>      BLOCK
>
> proposal with the "with" statement.  It also doesn't fall prey to
> the "mistaken-assignment vs. intentional-assignment" found in most
> C-like languages.  I could see a pretty reasonable PEP coming from this.

Often though the while test is not a simple boolean test of VAR.  For example:

j = int(random() * n)
while j in selected:
    j = int(random() * n)

It also doesn't flow quite as naturally.  "with x as y" is
grammatically correct English.  "while x as y" is not, and I wonder
how easily it might be confused for "while x is y", which is valid
Python and means something completely different.


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Wed Oct 24 18:54:33 2012
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 17:54:33 -0500
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <20121024222656.GA32708@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<20121024222656.GA32708@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <508871A9.5020905@tim.thechases.com>

On 10/24/12 17:26, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> On 24Oct2012 16:54, Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> | On 10/24/12 16:34, Ian Kelly wrote:
> | > The idiomatic way to do this is:
> | > 
> | > while True:
> | >     VAR = EXPR
> | >     if not VAR:
> | >         break
> | >     BLOCK
> | 
> | It may be idiomatic, but that doesn't stop it from being pretty
> | ugly.
> 
> Yes, but more flexible because it accomodates loops where the natural
> place for the test is partway through the loop instead of right at the
> top, which is quite common.

Just like the "with" doesn't stop you from using a try/finally block
to do something similar, you can still write mid-loop exits as code
currently exists.  The proposed syntax just makes coming from other
languages easier to translate.

> | I must say I really like the parity of Dan's
> |   while EXPR as VAR:
> |      BLOCK
> | proposal with the "with" statement.
> 
> Well, it's nice. But usually EXPR will be a boolean.

I think the most common use-cases are boolean'ish.  The falsehood
means stop, but the truthiness value is not merely True.  The common
use-case I hit is the

  f = file('foo.bin')
  while True:
    data = f.read(CHUNK_SIZE)
    if not data: break
    process(data) #not just data=True

which tidily becomes

  while f.read(CHUNK_SIZE) as data:
    process(data)

>   m = re_FUNKYPATTERN.match(test_string)
>   if m:
>     do stuff with the results of the match, using "m"
> 
> If I could write this as:
> 
>   if re_FUNKYPATTERN.match(test_string) as m:
>     do stuff with the results of the match, using "m"

I'm -0 on this.  I don't like the pattern, but I'm not sure the "if
CONDITION as FOO" syntax yields nearly the functional & readable
improvement of "while THING as FOO".

> then some cascading parse decisions would feel a bit cleaner. Where I
> current have this:
> 
>   m = re_CONSTRUCT1.match(line)
>   if m:
>     ... handle construct 1 ...
>   else:
>     m = re_CONSTRUCT2.match(line)
>     if m:
>       ... handle construct 2 ...
>     else:
>       m = re_CONSTRUCT3.match(line)

For those, I often end up putting the regexps in a list and
iterating accordingly (which I have done multiple times):

  regexes = [
    re_one,
    re_two,
    re_three,
    ]
  for regex in regexes:
    m = regex.match(line)
    if m:
      handle(m)
      break
  else:
    doh()

Granted, it does expect that you want to handle the results
uniformly, but this could (usually) be mitigated with a dispatch
function as well

  regex_dispatches = [
    (re_one, handle1),
    (re_two, handle2),
    (re_three, handle3),
    ]
  for regex, fn in regex_dispatches:
    m = regex.match(line):
    if m:
      fn(m, extra_context)
      break
  else:
    doh()


> But I'm still -0 on it, because it supplants the glaringly obvious:
> 
>   m = ...
> 
> assignment with the far less in your face:
> 
>   possibly-long-expr as m

If it were replacing standard assignment, I'd be as off-the-charts
-1 as possible.  Yech.  But when cued by the "while" and
indentation, it's not quite so bad.  It still feels yucky? in an
"if", but I find the improvement in the "while" is certainly worthwhile.


> With statements and except statements have concrete use cases for the
> "as" part that aren't doable without it, but the while/if...as form
> can always be written in the current convention.

The syntax for the with *could* have been something like

  with foo = file("foo.txt"):
    for line in foo:
      pass

but the "as" was chosen and I think it makes sense in the context.

-tkc

(To me, the "if CONDITION as VAR" feels much like the ternary
evaluation:

  x = foo if bar else baz

which made it into official syntax; I find the "while CONDITION as
VAR" much more readable/valuable in light of both)






From cs at zip.com.au  Wed Oct 24 18:56:22 2012
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 09:56:22 +1100
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpnjKM_vk0HMCdQC6M0TPRbkWR87nLk3UNS7q9A4hNAeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPTjJmpnjKM_vk0HMCdQC6M0TPRbkWR87nLk3UNS7q9A4hNAeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121024225622.GA3565@cskk.homeip.net>

On 25Oct2012 09:40, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
| On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:26 AM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
| > If I could write this as:
| >
| >   if re_FUNKYPATTERN.match(test_string) as m:
| >     do stuff with the results of the match, using "m"
| 
| Then you'd be right there with C-like languages where assignment is an
| expression :)
| 
| while (tok = strtok(blah,blah)) ... do something with tok ...

Well, yes, that's the core convenience of the suggested syntax.
But without the =/== accident opportunity.
But with another assignment that doesn't look like an asisgnment syntax.

Like I said, I'm -0.
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

Be smart, be safe, be paranoid.
        - Ryan Cousineau, courier at compdyn.com DoD#863, KotRB, KotKWaWCRH


From cs at zip.com.au  Wed Oct 24 18:58:11 2012
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 09:58:11 +1100
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <7x625zo5su.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <7x625zo5su.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <20121024225810.GA3767@cskk.homeip.net>

On 24Oct2012 15:37, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
| Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> writes:
| >   if re_FUNKYPATTERN.match(test_string) as m:
| >     do stuff with the results of the match, using "m"
| 
|   class memo:
|      def __call__(f, *args, **kw):
|         self.result = f(*args, **kw)
| 
|   m = memo()
|   if result(re_FUNKYPATTERN.match, test_string):
|        do stuff with the results of the match,
|        using "m.result"
| 
| then
| 
|       if re_CONSTRUCT1.match(line) as m:
|         ... handle construct 1 ...
|       elif re_CONSTRUCT2.match(line) as m:
|         ... handle construct 2 ...
|       elif re_CONSTRUCT3.match(line) as m:
| 
| becomes
| 
|    if m(re_CONSTRUCT1.match, line):
|      .. handle construct 1 ...
|    elif m(re_CONSTRUCT2.match, line):
|      .. handle construct 2 ...

Cute. Not sure I like it, but cute:-)
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

If you do not read the paper, you are uninformed. If you do read the
paper, you are misinformed. - Mark Twain


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Oct 24 18:58:46 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Oct 2012 22:58:46 GMT
Subject: Listen for changes in variable (alsaaudio.Mixer(x,x).getvolume(x)
References: <508839a7$0$785$58c7af7e@news.kabelfoon.nl>
Message-ID: <508872a6$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 20:55:35 +0200, Muffinman wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> I'm new to Python (running 2.6.6 but if necessary 3.x should also be
> fine). I have a little idea I hope to accomplish with Python. I want to
> listen for changes in Alsa sound volume level and base some actions on
> that. With the few lines below I can check the current volume level. Can
> I extend this so that the script listens for changes in the volume level
> and I can base some actions on it? As speed is quite important it's not
> an option to poll every second or so for changes, it has to be close to
> instantaneous.

Then poll every millisecond or so.

I don't believe it is possible to listen for changes in an arbitrary 
variable. But if you check the alsaaudio module, or ask on a dedicated 
alsa mailing list, you may be able to find out how alsa records the 
volume in the first place. If it is written to a file, you can listen for 
changes to the file without polling on Linux systems.

> If this is not possible with Python, any suggestions on what else are
> also welcome of course.

That's not a Python question, it's an Alsa question. Who knows how the 
sound volume is stored?


-- 
Steven


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Oct 24 19:08:21 2012
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 16:08:21 -0700
Subject: while expression feature proposal
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2803.1351119286.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> writes:
> j = int(random() * n)
> while j in selected:
>     j = int(random() * n)

from itertools import dropwhile

j = dropwhile(lambda j: j in selected,
                 iter(lambda: int(random() * n), object()))
             .next()

kind of ugly, makes me wish for a few more itertools primitives, but I
think it expresses reasonably directly what you are trying to do.


From driscoll at cs.wisc.edu  Wed Oct 24 19:19:54 2012
From: driscoll at cs.wisc.edu (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 18:19:54 -0500
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <20121024222656.GA32708@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<20121024222656.GA32708@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <5088779A.3000202@cs.wisc.edu>

On 10/24/2012 05:26 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> But I'm still -0 on it, because it supplants the glaringly obvious:
> 
>   m = ...
> 
> assignment with the far less in your face:
> 
>   possibly-long-expr as m
> 
> and I think it would get quite heavily used, to the detriment of
> assignment readability in general. At present the nature of most effects
> is at the left. An assignment is obvious on the left, an if/with/while/etc
> is visible at the left.

In the interest of brainstorming, what about

   while VAR from EXPR:

or something like that? I don't think I like 'from' on a couple counts,
but there's probably some word that fits.

Evan

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From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 19:39:16 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 17:39:16 -0600
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2803.1351119286.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidm+SUaFE4o5MhkzS0HgB3asggRspNge4r-HHHcKsbVMNQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> from itertools import dropwhile
>
> j = dropwhile(lambda j: j in selected,
>                  iter(lambda: int(random() * n), object()))
>              .next()
>
> kind of ugly, makes me wish for a few more itertools primitives, but I
> think it expresses reasonably directly what you are trying to do.

Nice, although a bit opaque.  I think I prefer it as a generator expression:

j = next(j for j in iter(partial(randrange, n), None) if j not in selected)


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Oct 24 21:15:10 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Oct 2012 01:15:10 GMT
Subject: resume execution after catching with an excepthook?
References: <mailman.2758.1351083094.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5088929e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 13:51:30 +0100, andrea crotti wrote:

> So I would like to be able to ask for confirmation when I receive a C-c,
> and continue if the answer is "N/n".

I don't think there is any way to do this directly.

Without a try...except block, execution will cease after an exception is 
caught, even when using sys.excepthook. I don't believe that there is any 
way to jump back to the line of code that just failed (and why would you, 
it will just fail again) or the next line (which will likely fail because 
the previous line failed).

I think the only way you can do this is to write your own execution loop:

while True:
    try:
        run(next_command())
    except KeyboardInterrupt:
        if confirm_quit():
            break


Of course you need to make run() atomic, or use transactions that can be 
reverted or backed out of. How plausible this is depends on what you are 
trying to do -- Python's Ctrl-C is not really designed to be ignored.

Perhaps a better approach would be to treat Ctrl-C as an unconditional 
exit, and periodically poll the keyboard for another key press to use as 
a conditional exit. Here's a snippet of platform-specific code to get a 
key press:

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577977

Note however that it blocks if there is no key press waiting.

I suspect that you may need a proper event loop, as provided by GUI 
frameworks, or curses.



-- 
Steven


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 21:35:37 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 21:35:37 -0400
Subject: Listen for changes in variable (alsaaudio.Mixer(x, x).getvolume(x)
In-Reply-To: <508839a7$0$785$58c7af7e@news.kabelfoon.nl>
References: <508839a7$0$785$58c7af7e@news.kabelfoon.nl>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJVQwa=-Uv9jsRWrou6vVPVO_hdHqu_Q_b5qy4-c_zAN0w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 2:55 PM, Muffinman <news**REMOVETHIS**@koster.tk> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I'm new to Python (running 2.6.6 but if necessary 3.x should also be
> fine). I have a little idea I hope to accomplish with Python. I want to
> listen for changes in Alsa sound volume level and base some actions on
> that.

With the few lines below I can check the current volume level. Can
> I extend this so that the script listens for changes in the volume level
> and I can base some actions on it? As speed is quite important it's not
> an option to poll every second or so for changes, it has to be close to
> instantaneous.
>
> If this is not possible with Python, any suggestions on what else are
> also welcome of course.
>
> Thanks in advance, Maarten
>
>
> #############
> try
>     mixer = alsaaudio.Mixer(Fake, 0)
> except alsaaudio.ALSAAudioError:
>     sys.stderr.write("No such mixer\n")
>     sys.exit(1)
>
> volumes = mixer.getvolume(1)
> #############
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


first look at the docs for command line functions that utilize the
command line for access to certain CL apps.

Once you've found a way to access the CL apps with python(I use
subprocess.call usually, I think, but there's popen, etc.) then use
man alsamixer, or man aplayer, or man arecorder. in the shell on your
linux distro.

Then throw in a little tkinter, or a windowing system of your choice,
and distort the changes with command line calls.


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Wed Oct 24 21:42:54 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 21:42:54 -0400
Subject: Listen for changes in variable (alsaaudio.Mixer(x, x).getvolume(x)
In-Reply-To: <508839a7$0$785$58c7af7e@news.kabelfoon.nl>
References: <508839a7$0$785$58c7af7e@news.kabelfoon.nl>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJXOjQD7unLc_yE=W=mxmvBD3ZwJDL3yWpOaOSXPz=FN2g@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 2:55 PM, Muffinman <news**REMOVETHIS**@koster.tk> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I'm new to Python (running 2.6.6 but if necessary 3.x should also be
> fine). I have a little idea I hope to accomplish with Python. I want to
> listen for changes in Alsa sound volume level and base some actions on
> that. With the few lines below I can check the current volume level. Can
> I extend this so that the script listens for changes in the volume level
> and I can base some actions on it? As speed is quite important it's not
> an option to poll every second or so for changes, it has to be close to
> instantaneous.
>

You might have to go to c++(ctypes function call), like I'm going to
have to for a oscilloscope(using arecord probably, or other options),
and use in line assembly to push straight from/to the register.

I haven't had a good look at  python's IO module yet though.

Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From charleshixsn at earthlink.net  Wed Oct 24 22:19:55 2012
From: charleshixsn at earthlink.net (Charles Hixson)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 19:19:55 -0700
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
Message-ID: <5088A1CB.1050208@earthlink.net>

In Python3 is there any good way to count the number of on bits in an 
integer (after an & operation)?
Alternatively, is there any VERY light-weight implementation of a bit 
set?  I'd prefer to use integers, as I'm probably going to need 
thousands of these, if the tests work out.  But before I can test, I 
need a decent bit counter.  (shift, xor, &, and | are already present 
for integer values, but I also need to count the number of "true" items 
after the logical operation.  So if a bitset is the correct approach, 
I'll need it to implement those operations, or their equivalents in 
terms of union and intersection.)

Or do I need to drop into C for this?

-- 
Charles Hixson



From piet at vanoostrum.org  Wed Oct 24 23:48:02 2012
From: piet at vanoostrum.org (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 23:48:02 -0400
Subject: simple string format question
References: <k5guje$ui$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2200.1350305892.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m27gqfkya5.fsf@cochabamba.vanoostrum.org>

Adrien <adnothing at gmail.com> writes:

> print "{:.3g}".format(2.356)  # this rounds up

But:

>>> print "{:.3g}".format(12.356) 
12.4
>>> print "{:.3g}".format(123.356) 
123

-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at vanoostrum.org>
WWW: http://pietvanoostrum.com/
PGP key: [8DAE142BE17999C4]


From michael.j.krause at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 00:27:28 2012
From: michael.j.krause at gmail.com (seektime)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 21:27:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: turn list of letters into an array of integers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2727.1351058849.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2727.1351058849.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d66a4294-0fc5-4435-8940-6f250467341f@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, October 23, 2012 11:07:29 PM UTC-7, Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:23 PM, seektime <michael.j.krause at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Here's some example code. The input is a list which is a "matrix" of letters:
> 
> >    a  b  a
> 
> >    b  b  a
> 
> >
> 
> > and I'd like to turn this into a Python array:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean a Python list. The datatype Python calls an `array` is very
> 
> different and relatively uncommonly used.
> 
> Although, confusingly, Python's lists are implemented using C arrays
> 
> rather than linked lists.
> 
> 
> 
> >   1 2 1
> 
> >   2 2 1
> 
> >
> 
> > so 1 replaces a, and 2 replaces b. Here's the code I have so far:
> 
> >
> 
> >>>> L=['a b a\n','b b a\n']
> 
> <snip>
> 
> >>>> seq
> 
> > '1 2 1\n 2 2 1\n'
> 
> >
> 
> > My question is how can I turn "seq" into a python array?
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say you're asking the wrong question. The better question is "Why
> 
> wasn't the result a list in the first place?". Many transformations
> 
> are cumbersome to express over just strings, which is why the first
> 
> job of most programs is to parse their input into a more convenient
> 
> structure that is suited to their main task(s).
> 
> 
> 
> This (along with some other improvements) leads to a better, somewhat
> 
> different program/algorithm:
> 
> 
> 
> letter2number = {'a': 1, 'b': 2}
> 
> with open("path/to/file.txt", "r") as f:
> 
>     result = [[letter2number[letter] for letter in
> 
> line.strip().split()] for line in f]
> 
> 
> 
> If it's safe to assume that the correspondence between the letters and
> 
> numbers isn't completely arbitrary, some further improvements are also
> 
> possible.
> 
> 
> 
> Some relevant docs:
> 
> http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#string-methods
> 
> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/datastructures.html#list-comprehensions
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> P.S.: I'm guessing you obtained `L` from file.readlines() or similar;
> 
> it is worth noting for future reference that the readlines() method is
> 
> considered somewhat deprecated.

Thanks to everyone lots of great comments are actionable suggestions. 

My intension is to used the numpy/scipy packages to solve the task at hand. I agree that there's no point in loading a file into a format which only needs to be converted right after loading. But I'm new to Python the f.readline(s) command, according to the 2.7.3 tutorial and manual, is pretty much all there is for file i/o. If, as you indicated, f.readlines() is deprecated then what should I use instead? I'm using ver. 2.6 on Linux (it's a bit dated, I know).


From michael.j.krause at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 00:27:28 2012
From: michael.j.krause at gmail.com (seektime)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 21:27:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: turn list of letters into an array of integers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2727.1351058849.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2727.1351058849.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d66a4294-0fc5-4435-8940-6f250467341f@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, October 23, 2012 11:07:29 PM UTC-7, Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:23 PM, seektime <michael.j.krause at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Here's some example code. The input is a list which is a "matrix" of letters:
> 
> >    a  b  a
> 
> >    b  b  a
> 
> >
> 
> > and I'd like to turn this into a Python array:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean a Python list. The datatype Python calls an `array` is very
> 
> different and relatively uncommonly used.
> 
> Although, confusingly, Python's lists are implemented using C arrays
> 
> rather than linked lists.
> 
> 
> 
> >   1 2 1
> 
> >   2 2 1
> 
> >
> 
> > so 1 replaces a, and 2 replaces b. Here's the code I have so far:
> 
> >
> 
> >>>> L=['a b a\n','b b a\n']
> 
> <snip>
> 
> >>>> seq
> 
> > '1 2 1\n 2 2 1\n'
> 
> >
> 
> > My question is how can I turn "seq" into a python array?
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say you're asking the wrong question. The better question is "Why
> 
> wasn't the result a list in the first place?". Many transformations
> 
> are cumbersome to express over just strings, which is why the first
> 
> job of most programs is to parse their input into a more convenient
> 
> structure that is suited to their main task(s).
> 
> 
> 
> This (along with some other improvements) leads to a better, somewhat
> 
> different program/algorithm:
> 
> 
> 
> letter2number = {'a': 1, 'b': 2}
> 
> with open("path/to/file.txt", "r") as f:
> 
>     result = [[letter2number[letter] for letter in
> 
> line.strip().split()] for line in f]
> 
> 
> 
> If it's safe to assume that the correspondence between the letters and
> 
> numbers isn't completely arbitrary, some further improvements are also
> 
> possible.
> 
> 
> 
> Some relevant docs:
> 
> http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#string-methods
> 
> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/datastructures.html#list-comprehensions
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> P.S.: I'm guessing you obtained `L` from file.readlines() or similar;
> 
> it is worth noting for future reference that the readlines() method is
> 
> considered somewhat deprecated.

Thanks to everyone lots of great comments are actionable suggestions. 

My intension is to used the numpy/scipy packages to solve the task at hand. I agree that there's no point in loading a file into a format which only needs to be converted right after loading. But I'm new to Python the f.readline(s) command, according to the 2.7.3 tutorial and manual, is pretty much all there is for file i/o. If, as you indicated, f.readlines() is deprecated then what should I use instead? I'm using ver. 2.6 on Linux (it's a bit dated, I know).


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Oct 25 00:50:59 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 00:50:59 -0400
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <5088779A.3000202@cs.wisc.edu>
References: <50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<20121024222656.GA32708@cskk.homeip.net>
	<5088779A.3000202@cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <k6agfp$3o0$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/24/2012 7:19 PM, Evan Driscoll wrote:
> On 10/24/2012 05:26 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:
>> But I'm still -0 on it, because it supplants the glaringly obvious:
>>
>>    m = ...
>>
>> assignment with the far less in your face:
>>
>>    possibly-long-expr as m
>>
>> and I think it would get quite heavily used, to the detriment of
>> assignment readability in general. At present the nature of most effects
>> is at the left. An assignment is obvious on the left, an if/with/while/etc
>> is visible at the left.
>
> In the interest of brainstorming, what about
>
>     while VAR from EXPR:
>
> or something like that? I don't think I like 'from' on a couple counts,
> but there's probably some word that fits.

The op wondered if these proposals have been made before. They have 
been, and have been rejected. Some of the discussion has been on 
python-ideas list. But go ahead and brainstorm and discuss.

Keep in mind that any new syntax has to be a substantial improvement in 
some sense or make something new possible. There was no new syntax in 
3.2 and very little in 3.3.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Oct 25 00:52:07 2012
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 21:52:07 -0700
Subject: turn list of letters into an array of integers
In-Reply-To: <d66a4294-0fc5-4435-8940-6f250467341f@googlegroups.com>
References: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2727.1351058849.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<d66a4294-0fc5-4435-8940-6f250467341f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRSHAtHsURPG-38J=2V_Ufkr6v5cCvGty8DdZLc=fOKa4A@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 9:27 PM, seektime <michael.j.krause at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 23, 2012 11:07:29 PM UTC-7, Chris Rebert wrote:
<snip>
>> P.S.: I'm guessing you obtained `L` from file.readlines() or similar;
>> it is worth noting for future reference that the readlines() method is
>> considered somewhat deprecated.
>
> Thanks to everyone lots of great comments are actionable suggestions.
>
> My intension is to used the numpy/scipy packages to solve the task at hand. I agree that there's no point in loading a file into a format which only needs to be converted right after loading. But I'm new to Python the f.readline(s) command, according to the 2.7.3 tutorial and manual, is pretty much all there is for file i/o. If, as you indicated, f.readlines() is deprecated then what should I use instead? I'm using ver. 2.6 on Linux (it's a bit dated, I know).

Just iterate over the file directly using a for-loop (e.g. `for line
in some_file:`). Each iteration yields one line of the file. I used a
very minor variation of this approach in my code (a list comprehension
is just syntax sugar for a for-loop).

Cheers,
Chris


From charleshixsn at earthlink.net  Thu Oct 25 01:32:44 2012
From: charleshixsn at earthlink.net (Charles Hixson)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 22:32:44 -0700
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
Message-ID: <5088CEFC.5000900@earthlink.net>

In Python3 is there any good way to count the number of on bits in an 
integer (after an & operation)?
Alternatively, is there any VERY light-weight implementation of a bit 
set?  I'd prefer to use integers, as I'm probably going to need 
thousands of these, if the tests work out.  But before I can test, I 
need a decent bit counter.  (shift, xor, &, and | are already present 
for integer values, but I also need to count the number of "true" items 
after the logical operation.  So if a bitset is the correct approach, 
I'll need it to implement those operations, or their equivalents in 
terms of union and intersection.)

Or do I need to drop into C for this?

-- 
Charles Hixson



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Oct 25 01:47:48 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 07:47:48 +0200
Subject: [OT] Re: turn list of letters into an array of integers
References: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
	<CAMZYqRR+RMFMy0CiWTDbw_xm1n9EZPxN5HpyoyRSM114xNmGpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<k686ej$6r8$1@ger.gmane.org> <k68aub$ajr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<nthg88d1mo26l0q0e2k5qfarkjn1epkaou@invalid.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <k6ajp7$pok$1@ger.gmane.org>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 11:04:38 +0200, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
>> Peter Otten wrote:
>> 
>> Brave new words:
>> 
>> > immortable
>> 
>> should be "immortal"
> 
> Readlines() isn't immortal... It's a lich
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lich

Wasn't there a Monty Python sketch where a man carrying a parrot in a cage 
comes into a shop full of stuffed animals and complains: No, I don't admire 
the taxidermist for making that parrot look like it were alive -- that beast 
bit me!



From timr at probo.com  Thu Oct 25 01:59:10 2012
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 22:59:10 -0700
Subject: Listen for changes in variable (alsaaudio.Mixer(x, x).getvolume(x)
References: <508839a7$0$785$58c7af7e@news.kabelfoon.nl>
Message-ID: <d2lh885ik9bncrhct7isnq6epdm5k6it2f@4ax.com>

Muffinman <news**REMOVETHIS**@koster.tk> wrote:
>
>I'm new to Python (running 2.6.6 but if necessary 3.x should also be
>fine). I have a little idea I hope to accomplish with Python. I want to
>listen for changes in Alsa sound volume level and base some actions on
>that. With the few lines below I can check the current volume level. 
...
>
>volumes = mixer.getvolume(1)

Now, do you understand that this is just fetching the current setting of
the volume control for the microphone?  It's not telling you anything about
the actual level of the sounds being captured.

The fact that you're talking about real-time response makes me think you
might be misunderstanding this.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de  Thu Oct 25 03:21:38 2012
From: nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de (Thomas Rachel)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 09:21:38 +0200
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2807.1351121989.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2803.1351119286.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2807.1351121989.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k6apaa$eid$1@r03.glglgl.gl>

Am 25.10.2012 01:39 schrieb Ian Kelly:
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> from itertools import dropwhile
>>
>> j = dropwhile(lambda j: j in selected,
>>                   iter(lambda: int(random() * n), object()))
>>               .next()
>>
>> kind of ugly, makes me wish for a few more itertools primitives, but I
>> think it expresses reasonably directly what you are trying to do.
>
> Nice, although a bit opaque.  I think I prefer it as a generator expression:
>
> j = next(j for j in iter(partial(randrange, n), None) if j not in selected)

This generator never ends. If it meets a non-matching value, it just 
skips it and goes on.

The dropwhile expression, however, stops as soon as the value is found.

I think

# iterate ad inf., because partial never returns None:
i1 = iter(partial(randrange, n), None)
# take the next value, make it None for breaking:
i2 = (j if j in selected else None for j in i1)
# and now, break on None:
i3 = iter(lambda: next(i2), None)

would do the job.


Thomas


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct 25 03:49:42 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Oct 2012 07:49:42 GMT
Subject: [OT] Re: turn list of letters into an array of integers
References: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
	<CAMZYqRR+RMFMy0CiWTDbw_xm1n9EZPxN5HpyoyRSM114xNmGpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<k686ej$6r8$1@ger.gmane.org> <k68aub$ajr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<nthg88d1mo26l0q0e2k5qfarkjn1epkaou@invalid.netcom.com>
	<mailman.2813.1351144053.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5088ef16$0$29882$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 07:47:48 +0200, Peter Otten wrote:

> Wasn't there a Monty Python sketch where a man carrying a parrot in a
> cage comes into a shop full of stuffed animals and complains: No, I
> don't admire the taxidermist for making that parrot look like it were
> alive -- that beast bit me!

I don't think so. Are you thinking of the famous Monty Python "Dead 
Parrot Sketch"? Here's one of many versions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218



-- 
Steven


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Oct 25 04:25:31 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 10:25:31 +0200
Subject: [OT] Re: turn list of letters into an array of integers
References: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
	<CAMZYqRR+RMFMy0CiWTDbw_xm1n9EZPxN5HpyoyRSM114xNmGpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<k686ej$6r8$1@ger.gmane.org> <k68aub$ajr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<nthg88d1mo26l0q0e2k5qfarkjn1epkaou@invalid.netcom.com>
	<mailman.2813.1351144053.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5088ef16$0$29882$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <k6at0r$160$1@ger.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 07:47:48 +0200, Peter Otten wrote:
> 
>> Wasn't there a Monty Python sketch where a man carrying a parrot in a
>> cage comes into a shop full of stuffed animals and complains: No, I
>> don't admire the taxidermist for making that parrot look like it were
>> alive -- that beast bit me!
> 
> I don't think so. Are you thinking of the famous Monty Python "Dead
> Parrot Sketch"? Here's one of many versions:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218

My rendition was meant to be a travesty of that one, an "undead" parrot as a 
follow-up to Dennis' "lich" post. I'm sorry I forgot the smiley ;)

- He didn't move, that was just the wind stirring his plumage.
- No, that parrot is alive and kicking, fresh as a daisy, full of beans...
- Aren't the glass eyes beautiful?
- Glass eyes -- he just blinked!

And so on. I'm off to work on my laden swallow branch of Python. It's going 
to be a real heavy-weight...

-- 
Always look on the dark side of death



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Oct 25 04:55:37 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 09:55:37 +0100
Subject: [OT] Re: turn list of letters into an array of integers
In-Reply-To: <k6at0r$160$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
	<CAMZYqRR+RMFMy0CiWTDbw_xm1n9EZPxN5HpyoyRSM114xNmGpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<k686ej$6r8$1@ger.gmane.org> <k68aub$ajr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<nthg88d1mo26l0q0e2k5qfarkjn1epkaou@invalid.netcom.com>
	<mailman.2813.1351144053.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5088ef16$0$29882$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<k6at0r$160$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <k6auid$e6n$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 25/10/2012 09:25, Peter Otten wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 07:47:48 +0200, Peter Otten wrote:
>>
>>> Wasn't there a Monty Python sketch where a man carrying a parrot in a
>>> cage comes into a shop full of stuffed animals and complains: No, I
>>> don't admire the taxidermist for making that parrot look like it were
>>> alive -- that beast bit me!
>>
>> I don't think so. Are you thinking of the famous Monty Python "Dead
>> Parrot Sketch"? Here's one of many versions:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218
>
> My rendition was meant to be a travesty of that one, an "undead" parrot as a
> follow-up to Dennis' "lich" post. I'm sorry I forgot the smiley ;)
>
> - He didn't move, that was just the wind stirring his plumage.
> - No, that parrot is alive and kicking, fresh as a daisy, full of beans...
> - Aren't the glass eyes beautiful?
> - Glass eyes -- he just blinked!
>
> And so on. I'm off to work on my laden swallow branch of Python. It's going
> to be a real heavy-weight...
>

I just hope you get the technicalities correct.  "That parrot wouldn't 
move if you put 4 million volts through it".  What rubbish.  It should 
either have been 4 million amps through it or 4 million volts across it. 
  I'm +1 for the former, although possibly biased by history.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From vs at it.uu.se  Thu Oct 25 05:00:59 2012
From: vs at it.uu.se (Virgil Stokes)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:00:59 +0200
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <069780e5-43ee-48de-9257-fc0f16ec39d7@s9g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.2667.1351003942.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<069780e5-43ee-48de-9257-fc0f16ec39d7@s9g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5088FFCB.7070001@it.uu.se>

On 24-Oct-2012 17:11, rusi wrote:
> On Oct 23, 7:52 pm, Virgil Stokes <v... at it.uu.se> wrote:
>> I am working with some rather large data files (>100GB) that contain time series
>> data. The data (t_k,y(t_k)), k = 0,1,...,N are stored in ASCII format. I perform
>> various types of processing on these data (e.g. moving median, moving average,
>> and Kalman-filter, Kalman-smoother) in a sequential manner and only a small
>> number of these data need be stored in RAM when being processed. When performing
>> Kalman-filtering (forward in time pass, k = 0,1,...,N) I need to save to an
>> external file several variables (e.g. 11*32 bytes) for each (t_k, y(t_k)). These
>> are inputs to the Kalman-smoother (backward in time pass, k = N,N-1,...,0).
>> Thus, I will need to input these variables saved to an external file from the
>> forward pass, in reverse order --- from last written to first written.
>>
>> Finally, to my question --- What is a fast way to write these variables to an
>> external file and then read them in backwards?
> Have you tried gdbm/bsddbm? They are meant for such (I believe).
> Probably needs to be installed for windows; works for linux.
> If I were you I'd try out with the giant data on linux and see if the
> problem is solved, then see how to install for windows
Thanks Rusi :-)


From insideshoes at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 05:04:26 2012
From: insideshoes at gmail.com (inshu chauhan)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:04:26 +0200
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRE9P7RxjfR1jj316ozN39rXyWjQzz1yGThYB-vP=mKs1Q@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <CAFqGZREsGdQC-b2mGUqRESjfA38L2LJR1b_j62AHm66xwkxpvQ@mail.gmail.com>

Actually what I wanted to do is :

suppose there are 3 lists :

like for xample :

clist = [] an empty list , alist = [1,2,3], blist = [4,5,6]

and the I want the result is clist = [ [1,2,3], [4,5,6] ..]

then I want to read all the lists in clist one by one

like :

 for item in clist:
     print item

which should print:

[1,2,3]
[4,5,6]




On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:10 PM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com>wrote:

> ok I got it guys...
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Joshua Landau <
> joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  On 23 October 2012 21:06, Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>>  On 23 October 2012 21:03, Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 23 October 2012 12:07, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>
>>>>> > Thankyou.. but my problem is different than simply joining 2 lists
>>>>> > and it is done now :)....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A lot of people though you were asking for joining lists, you
>>>>> description was misleading.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll take a guess: you want to flatten a list of list.
>>>>> "Nested" list comprehensions can do the trick.
>>>>>
>>>>> aList =[[1,5], [2,'a']]
>>>>> [item for sublist in aList for item in sublist]
>>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>>>> [1, 5, 2, 'a']
>>>>>
>>>>> I find it rather difficult to read though.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We have a library function for this, in the one-and-only itertools.
>>>>
>>>> >>> listoflists = [list(range(x, 2*x)) for x in range(5)]
>>>>> >>> listoflists
>>>>> [[], [1], [2, 3], [3, 4, 5], [4, 5, 6, 7]]
>>>>> >>> from itertools import chain
>>>>>  >>> list(chain.from_iterable(listoflists))
>>>>> [1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 4, 5, 6, 7]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It does exactly what it says... fast and easy-to-read.
>>>
>>>
>>> Note that I think what he really wanted is to go from
>>>
>>> a, b, c = [list(x) for x in (range(10), range(11, 20), range(21, 30))]
>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>>> list(range(30))
>>>
>>>
>> UNDO! UNDO! UNDO!
>>
>> I *meant *to say:
>>
>>  Note that I think what he really wanted is to go from
>>
>> a, b, c = [list(x) for x in (range(10), range(11, 20), range(21, 30))]
>>
>> to
>>
>>> [a, b, c]
>>
>>
>
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From d at davea.name  Thu Oct 25 05:16:56 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 05:16:56 -0400
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZREsGdQC-b2mGUqRESjfA38L2LJR1b_j62AHm66xwkxpvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRFUk0D_xnTZ19t6pK1dfCDKXct7iNps6MT6yjVFpF+bMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<901739839.1116059.1350990465261.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
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	<CAN1F8qVz7EbHNG5cBz_h7U=jrCp4p42cnT8mdtPuyaCEUYf63w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRE9P7RxjfR1jj316ozN39rXyWjQzz1yGThYB-vP=mKs1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZREsGdQC-b2mGUqRESjfA38L2LJR1b_j62AHm66xwkxpvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50890388.8030809@davea.name>

On 10/25/2012 05:04 AM, inshu chauhan wrote:
> Actually what I wanted to do is :
>
> suppose there are 3 lists :
>
> like for xample :
>
> clist = [] an empty list , alist = [1,2,3], blist = [4,5,6]
>
> and the I want the result is clist = [ [1,2,3], [4,5,6] ..]
>
> then I want to read all the lists in clist one by one
>
> like :
>
>  for item in clist:
>      print item
>
> which should print:
>
> [1,2,3]
> [4,5,6]
>
>

clist = alist, blist

or if the clist initial contents were relevant, perhaps you mean

clist += alist, blist



-- 

DaveA



From insideshoes at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 05:21:22 2012
From: insideshoes at gmail.com (inshu chauhan)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:21:22 +0200
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <50890388.8030809@davea.name>
References: <CAFqGZRFUk0D_xnTZ19t6pK1dfCDKXct7iNps6MT6yjVFpF+bMw@mail.gmail.com>
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	<CAN1F8qVz7EbHNG5cBz_h7U=jrCp4p42cnT8mdtPuyaCEUYf63w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRE9P7RxjfR1jj316ozN39rXyWjQzz1yGThYB-vP=mKs1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZREsGdQC-b2mGUqRESjfA38L2LJR1b_j62AHm66xwkxpvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50890388.8030809@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CAFqGZRG5QytqNxAfh60RNGv1V-DF8938rbDVy8Tf2S5+g4+oGA@mail.gmail.com>

> > clist = alist, blist
>
This may work i guess becuase i want list within list [ [1,2,3] , [4,5,6]]


>
> or if the clist initial contents were relevant, perhaps you mean
>
> > clist += alist, blist
>

But not this because it will simply concatenate the  list like
[1,2,3,4,5,6] .. I dont want this actaully...

>
>
>
> --
>
> DaveA
>
>
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From d at davea.name  Thu Oct 25 05:26:20 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 05:26:20 -0400
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <50890388.8030809@davea.name>
References: <CAFqGZRFUk0D_xnTZ19t6pK1dfCDKXct7iNps6MT6yjVFpF+bMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<901739839.1116059.1350990465261.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
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	<CAN1F8qVz7EbHNG5cBz_h7U=jrCp4p42cnT8mdtPuyaCEUYf63w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRE9P7RxjfR1jj316ozN39rXyWjQzz1yGThYB-vP=mKs1Q@mail.gmail.com>
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	<50890388.8030809@davea.name>
Message-ID: <508905BC.1060704@davea.name>

On 10/25/2012 05:16 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 10/25/2012 05:04 AM, inshu chauhan wrote:
>> Actually what I wanted to do is :
>>
>> suppose there are 3 lists :
>>
>> like for xample :
>>
>> clist = [] an empty list , alist = [1,2,3], blist = [4,5,6]
>>
>> and the I want the result is clist = [ [1,2,3], [4,5,6] ..]
>>
>> then I want to read all the lists in clist one by one
>>
>> like :
>>
>>  for item in clist:
>>      print item
>>
>> which should print:
>>
>> [1,2,3]
>> [4,5,6]
>>
>>
> clist = alist, blist
>
> or if the clist initial contents were relevant, perhaps you mean
>
> clist += alist, blist
>
>
>

Sorry, i was too quick off the mark.  I meant

clist = [alist, blist]

my first response would work with the loop, but it would have been a
tuple of lists



-- 

DaveA



From d at davea.name  Thu Oct 25 05:31:11 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 05:31:11 -0400
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRG5QytqNxAfh60RNGv1V-DF8938rbDVy8Tf2S5+g4+oGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRFUk0D_xnTZ19t6pK1dfCDKXct7iNps6MT6yjVFpF+bMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<901739839.1116059.1350990465261.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
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	<CAN1F8qWWTAoGM_A=V8qKJ9Cp23XiqYyn3ZdeejzB4PzK5djrZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qVz7EbHNG5cBz_h7U=jrCp4p42cnT8mdtPuyaCEUYf63w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRE9P7RxjfR1jj316ozN39rXyWjQzz1yGThYB-vP=mKs1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZREsGdQC-b2mGUqRESjfA38L2LJR1b_j62AHm66xwkxpvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50890388.8030809@davea.name>
	<CAFqGZRG5QytqNxAfh60RNGv1V-DF8938rbDVy8Tf2S5+g4+oGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508906DF.1090804@davea.name>

On 10/25/2012 05:21 AM, inshu chauhan wrote:
>>
>> or if the clist initial contents were relevant, perhaps you mean
>>
>>> clist += alist, blist
>>
> 
> But not this because it will simply concatenate the  list like
> [1,2,3,4,5,6] .. I dont want this actaully...
> 
>>

No, it won't.  Try it to see.



-- 

DaveA


From paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk  Thu Oct 25 05:35:32 2012
From: paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk (Paul Rudin)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 10:35:32 +0100
Subject: while expression feature proposal
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
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	<7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <87d306nbbv.fsf@no-fixed-abode.cable.virginmedia.net>

Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> writes:

> kind of ugly, makes me wish for a few more itertools primitives

JOOI, do you have specific primitives in mind?


From insideshoes at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 05:44:03 2012
From: insideshoes at gmail.com (inshu chauhan)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:44:03 +0200
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <508906DF.1090804@davea.name>
References: <CAFqGZRFUk0D_xnTZ19t6pK1dfCDKXct7iNps6MT6yjVFpF+bMw@mail.gmail.com>
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	<CAFqGZRE9P7RxjfR1jj316ozN39rXyWjQzz1yGThYB-vP=mKs1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZREsGdQC-b2mGUqRESjfA38L2LJR1b_j62AHm66xwkxpvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50890388.8030809@davea.name>
	<CAFqGZRG5QytqNxAfh60RNGv1V-DF8938rbDVy8Tf2S5+g4+oGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<508906DF.1090804@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CAFqGZRGfzxzQR0-WrCTaCquxh7kdhu4rOgEm5d17L-tQTohjCA@mail.gmail.com>

>>
> >> or if the clist initial contents were relevant, perhaps you mean
> >>
> >>> clist += alist, blist
> >>
> >
> > But not this because it will simply concatenate the  list like
> > [1,2,3,4,5,6] .. I dont want this actaully...
> >
> >>
>
> No, it won't.  Try it to see


Ok but it should be clist + = [alist, blist ] ????

>
>
> --
>
> DaveA
>
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From nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de  Thu Oct 25 05:44:33 2012
From: nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de (Thomas Rachel)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:44:33 +0200
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2800.1351117627.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2800.1351117627.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k6b1m6$krl$1@r03.glglgl.gl>

Am 25.10.2012 00:26 schrieb Cameron Simpson:

> If I could write this as:
>
>    if re_FUNKYPATTERN.match(test_string) as m:
>      do stuff with the results of the match, using "m"
>
> then some cascading parse decisions would feel a bit cleaner. Where I
> current have this:
>
>    m = re_CONSTRUCT1.match(line)
>    if m:
>      ... handle construct 1 ...
>    else:
>      m = re_CONSTRUCT2.match(line)
>      if m:
>        ... handle construct 2 ...
>      else:
>        m = re_CONSTRUCT3.match(line)
>
> I could have this:
>
>    if re_CONSTRUCT1.match(line) as m:
>      ... handle construct 1 ...
>    elif re_CONSTRUCT2.match(line) as m:
>      ... handle construct 2 ...
>    elif re_CONSTRUCT3.match(line) as m:

I would do

     for r in re_CONSTRUCT1, re_CONSTRUCT2, re_CONSTRUCT3:
         m = r.match(line)
         if m: handle_construct

or maybe

     actions = {re_CONSTRUCT1: action1, ...}

     def matching(line, *rr):
         for r in rr:
             m = r.match(line)
             if m: yield r; return

     for r in matching(line, *actions.keys()):
         actions[r]()
         break
     else:
         raise NoActionMatched() # or something like that

Thomas


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 05:47:50 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 05:47:50 -0400
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <508906DF.1090804@davea.name>
References: <CAFqGZRFUk0D_xnTZ19t6pK1dfCDKXct7iNps6MT6yjVFpF+bMw@mail.gmail.com>
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	<CAFqGZRE9P7RxjfR1jj316ozN39rXyWjQzz1yGThYB-vP=mKs1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZREsGdQC-b2mGUqRESjfA38L2LJR1b_j62AHm66xwkxpvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50890388.8030809@davea.name>
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	<508906DF.1090804@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJWynjNZDnunR5Obkde45c546ejLDmM9FLDXbQ5Ht3+hug@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 5:31 AM, Dave Angel <d at davea.name> wrote:
> On 10/25/2012 05:21 AM, inshu chauhan wrote:
>>>
>>> or if the clist initial contents were relevant, perhaps you mean
>>>
>>>> clist += alist, blist
>>>
>>
>> But not this because it will simply concatenate the  list like
>> [1,2,3,4,5,6] .. I dont want this actaully...
>>
>>>
>
> No, it won't.  Try it to see.
>

Is this what you mean:

>>> list_1 = [i for i in range(0,5)]
>>> list_2 = [i for i in range(5,11)]
>>> for i in list_2:
...     list_1.append(i)
...
>>> list_1
[0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]


or would another example help you out more?

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 05:50:11 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 05:50:11 -0400
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRGfzxzQR0-WrCTaCquxh7kdhu4rOgEm5d17L-tQTohjCA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRFUk0D_xnTZ19t6pK1dfCDKXct7iNps6MT6yjVFpF+bMw@mail.gmail.com>
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	<CAN1F8qVz7EbHNG5cBz_h7U=jrCp4p42cnT8mdtPuyaCEUYf63w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRE9P7RxjfR1jj316ozN39rXyWjQzz1yGThYB-vP=mKs1Q@mail.gmail.com>
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	<50890388.8030809@davea.name>
	<CAFqGZRG5QytqNxAfh60RNGv1V-DF8938rbDVy8Tf2S5+g4+oGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<508906DF.1090804@davea.name>
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Message-ID: <CA+vVgJUTVLvmZcqiQp1J7cLf+cwDgUg88kHKd-69bcifCymujw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 5:44 AM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> >>
>> >> or if the clist initial contents were relevant, perhaps you mean
>> >>
>> >>> clist += alist, blist
>> >>
>> >
>> > But not this because it will simply concatenate the  list like
>> > [1,2,3,4,5,6] .. I dont want this actaully...
>> >
>> >>
>>
>> No, it won't.  Try it to see
>
>
> Ok but it should be clist + = [alist, blist ] ????
>>
>>
>>
>> --
Also, try help(list) in the interpreter for functions utilizable by list.


Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From insideshoes at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 05:51:01 2012
From: insideshoes at gmail.com (inshu chauhan)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:51:01 +0200
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJWynjNZDnunR5Obkde45c546ejLDmM9FLDXbQ5Ht3+hug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRFUk0D_xnTZ19t6pK1dfCDKXct7iNps6MT6yjVFpF+bMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<901739839.1116059.1350990465261.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
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	<CAN1F8qWWTAoGM_A=V8qKJ9Cp23XiqYyn3ZdeejzB4PzK5djrZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qVz7EbHNG5cBz_h7U=jrCp4p42cnT8mdtPuyaCEUYf63w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRE9P7RxjfR1jj316ozN39rXyWjQzz1yGThYB-vP=mKs1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZREsGdQC-b2mGUqRESjfA38L2LJR1b_j62AHm66xwkxpvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50890388.8030809@davea.name>
	<CAFqGZRG5QytqNxAfh60RNGv1V-DF8938rbDVy8Tf2S5+g4+oGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<508906DF.1090804@davea.name>
	<CA+vVgJWynjNZDnunR5Obkde45c546ejLDmM9FLDXbQ5Ht3+hug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFqGZRE57tJTD8HNvxR0rR43scOydnpLcFNOmykcabFuXAAh4Q@mail.gmail.com>

> Is this what you mean:
>
> >>> list_1 = [i for i in range(0,5)]
> >>> list_2 = [i for i in range(5,11)]
> >>> for i in list_2:
> ...     list_1.append(i)
> ...
> >>> list_1
> [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
>
>
> or would another example help you out more?
>

No but really sorry this is what I DONT WANT.......

The output I want to have is :

[ [0, 1, 2, 3, 4 ], [5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10] ].....

>
> --
> Best Regards,
> David Hutto
> CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com
>
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From nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de  Thu Oct 25 05:52:31 2012
From: nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de (Thomas Rachel)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:52:31 +0200
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2811.1351140683.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<20121024222656.GA32708@cskk.homeip.net>
	<5088779A.3000202@cs.wisc.edu>
	<mailman.2811.1351140683.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k6b257$l8k$1@r03.glglgl.gl>

Am 25.10.2012 06:50 schrieb Terry Reedy:

> Keep in mind that any new syntax has to be a substantial improvement in
> some sense or make something new possible. There was no new syntax in
> 3.2 and very little in 3.3.

I would consinder this at least as new substantial than

     yield_from it

as opposed to

     for i in it: yield i

- although I think that was a good idea as well.

Although there are quite easy ways to do so, I would appreciate 
something like the proposed

    while EXPR as VAR: use VAR
    if EXPR as VAR: use VAR

Of course it is possible to construct a respective workaround such as

     def maybe_do_that():
         if moon == full:
             with something as val:
                 yield val

     for val in maybe_do_that():
         bla

but I would consider this as an abuse of the generator concept.

Thomas


From d at davea.name  Thu Oct 25 05:54:28 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 05:54:28 -0400
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRGfzxzQR0-WrCTaCquxh7kdhu4rOgEm5d17L-tQTohjCA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRFUk0D_xnTZ19t6pK1dfCDKXct7iNps6MT6yjVFpF+bMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<901739839.1116059.1350990465261.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<CAN1F8qXzGO-pav3zrth40JBYNxfxF74ZDaGPnGfKnHZ37x7bYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qWWTAoGM_A=V8qKJ9Cp23XiqYyn3ZdeejzB4PzK5djrZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qVz7EbHNG5cBz_h7U=jrCp4p42cnT8mdtPuyaCEUYf63w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRE9P7RxjfR1jj316ozN39rXyWjQzz1yGThYB-vP=mKs1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZREsGdQC-b2mGUqRESjfA38L2LJR1b_j62AHm66xwkxpvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50890388.8030809@davea.name>
	<CAFqGZRG5QytqNxAfh60RNGv1V-DF8938rbDVy8Tf2S5+g4+oGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<508906DF.1090804@davea.name>
	<CAFqGZRGfzxzQR0-WrCTaCquxh7kdhu4rOgEm5d17L-tQTohjCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50890C54.4070205@davea.name>

On 10/25/2012 05:44 AM, inshu chauhan wrote:
>>>
>>>> or if the clist initial contents were relevant, perhaps you mean
>>>>
>>>>> clist += alist, blist
>>>>
>>>
>>> But not this because it will simply concatenate the  list like
>>> [1,2,3,4,5,6] .. I dont want this actaully...
>>>
>>>>
>>
>> No, it won't.  Try it to see
> 
> 
> Ok but it should be clist + = [alist, blist ] ????
> 
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> DaveA
>>
> 

No, try it and see.  a,b is a tuple, and [a,b] is a list.  But if you're
doing the +=, and the LHS is a list, then it'll work with any iterable.

BTW, the extra space in your new line will also be a problem.  The plus
and the equals must be adjacent, without an intervening space.


-- 

DaveA


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 05:55:41 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 05:55:41 -0400
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRE57tJTD8HNvxR0rR43scOydnpLcFNOmykcabFuXAAh4Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRFUk0D_xnTZ19t6pK1dfCDKXct7iNps6MT6yjVFpF+bMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<901739839.1116059.1350990465261.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<CAN1F8qXzGO-pav3zrth40JBYNxfxF74ZDaGPnGfKnHZ37x7bYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qWWTAoGM_A=V8qKJ9Cp23XiqYyn3ZdeejzB4PzK5djrZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qVz7EbHNG5cBz_h7U=jrCp4p42cnT8mdtPuyaCEUYf63w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRE9P7RxjfR1jj316ozN39rXyWjQzz1yGThYB-vP=mKs1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZREsGdQC-b2mGUqRESjfA38L2LJR1b_j62AHm66xwkxpvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50890388.8030809@davea.name>
	<CAFqGZRG5QytqNxAfh60RNGv1V-DF8938rbDVy8Tf2S5+g4+oGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<508906DF.1090804@davea.name>
	<CA+vVgJWynjNZDnunR5Obkde45c546ejLDmM9FLDXbQ5Ht3+hug@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRE57tJTD8HNvxR0rR43scOydnpLcFNOmykcabFuXAAh4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJWmvZ+ixfunHzse+urq9uaGSq4k7WyZCkjGV4WuuLGGvA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 5:51 AM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Is this what you mean:
>>
list_0 = []
list_1 = [i for i in range(0,5)]
list_2 = [i for i in range(5,11)]
list_0.append(list_1)
list_0.append(list_2)
>> >>> for i in list_2:
>> ...     list_1.append(i)
>> ...
>> >>> list_1
>> [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
>>
>>
>> or would another example help you out more?
>
>
> No but really sorry this is what I DONT WANT.......
>
> The output I want to have is :
>
> [ [0, 1, 2, 3, 4 ], [5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10] ].....

Then, this is what you want :

>>david at david-desktop:~$ python
Python 2.7.3 (default, Aug  1 2012, 05:16:07)
[GCC 4.6.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> list_0 = []
>>> list_1 = [i for i in range(0,5)]
>>> list_2 = [i for i in range(5,11)]
>>> list_0.append(list_1)
>>> list_0.append(list_2)
>>> list_0
[[0, 1, 2, 3, 4], [5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]]
>>>




-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From insideshoes at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 05:58:41 2012
From: insideshoes at gmail.com (inshu chauhan)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:58:41 +0200
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJWmvZ+ixfunHzse+urq9uaGSq4k7WyZCkjGV4WuuLGGvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRFUk0D_xnTZ19t6pK1dfCDKXct7iNps6MT6yjVFpF+bMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<901739839.1116059.1350990465261.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<CAN1F8qXzGO-pav3zrth40JBYNxfxF74ZDaGPnGfKnHZ37x7bYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qWWTAoGM_A=V8qKJ9Cp23XiqYyn3ZdeejzB4PzK5djrZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qVz7EbHNG5cBz_h7U=jrCp4p42cnT8mdtPuyaCEUYf63w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRE9P7RxjfR1jj316ozN39rXyWjQzz1yGThYB-vP=mKs1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZREsGdQC-b2mGUqRESjfA38L2LJR1b_j62AHm66xwkxpvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50890388.8030809@davea.name>
	<CAFqGZRG5QytqNxAfh60RNGv1V-DF8938rbDVy8Tf2S5+g4+oGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<508906DF.1090804@davea.name>
	<CA+vVgJWynjNZDnunR5Obkde45c546ejLDmM9FLDXbQ5Ht3+hug@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRE57tJTD8HNvxR0rR43scOydnpLcFNOmykcabFuXAAh4Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJWmvZ+ixfunHzse+urq9uaGSq4k7WyZCkjGV4WuuLGGvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFqGZRFdC9aF3STnX9GAcKmwz8=R5vPih2R+Uex_G5KtcdDyZw@mail.gmail.com>

Yes Dave ..You are right and my problem is solved now..  Thanx to all...

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:55 AM, David Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 5:51 AM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Is this what you mean:
> >>
> list_0 = []
> list_1 = [i for i in range(0,5)]
> list_2 = [i for i in range(5,11)]
> list_0.append(list_1)
> list_0.append(list_2)
> >> >>> for i in list_2:
> >> ...     list_1.append(i)
> >> ...
> >> >>> list_1
> >> [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
> >>
> >>
> >> or would another example help you out more?
> >
> >
> > No but really sorry this is what I DONT WANT.......
> >
> > The output I want to have is :
> >
> > [ [0, 1, 2, 3, 4 ], [5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10] ].....
>
> Then, this is what you want :
>
> >>david at david-desktop:~$ python
> Python 2.7.3 (default, Aug  1 2012, 05:16:07)
> [GCC 4.6.3] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> list_0 = []
> >>> list_1 = [i for i in range(0,5)]
> >>> list_2 = [i for i in range(5,11)]
> >>> list_0.append(list_1)
> >>> list_0.append(list_2)
> >>> list_0
> [[0, 1, 2, 3, 4], [5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]]
> >>>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> David Hutto
> CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com
>
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From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 06:04:30 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 06:04:30 -0400
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZRFdC9aF3STnX9GAcKmwz8=R5vPih2R+Uex_G5KtcdDyZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRFUk0D_xnTZ19t6pK1dfCDKXct7iNps6MT6yjVFpF+bMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<901739839.1116059.1350990465261.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<CAN1F8qXzGO-pav3zrth40JBYNxfxF74ZDaGPnGfKnHZ37x7bYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qWWTAoGM_A=V8qKJ9Cp23XiqYyn3ZdeejzB4PzK5djrZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qVz7EbHNG5cBz_h7U=jrCp4p42cnT8mdtPuyaCEUYf63w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRE9P7RxjfR1jj316ozN39rXyWjQzz1yGThYB-vP=mKs1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZREsGdQC-b2mGUqRESjfA38L2LJR1b_j62AHm66xwkxpvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50890388.8030809@davea.name>
	<CAFqGZRG5QytqNxAfh60RNGv1V-DF8938rbDVy8Tf2S5+g4+oGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<508906DF.1090804@davea.name>
	<CA+vVgJWynjNZDnunR5Obkde45c546ejLDmM9FLDXbQ5Ht3+hug@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRE57tJTD8HNvxR0rR43scOydnpLcFNOmykcabFuXAAh4Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJWmvZ+ixfunHzse+urq9uaGSq4k7WyZCkjGV4WuuLGGvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRFdC9aF3STnX9GAcKmwz8=R5vPih2R+Uex_G5KtcdDyZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJW9MVtmw+M=Fp2Qy0=WSLTf0EEY0pA3rm_wuWBnDeTsOQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 5:58 AM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes Dave ..You are right and my problem is solved now..  Thanx to all...
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:55 AM, David Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 5:51 AM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Is this what you mean:
>> >>
>> list_0 = []
>> list_1 = [i for i in range(0,5)]
>> list_2 = [i for i in range(5,11)]
>> list_0.append(list_1)
>> list_0.append(list_2)
>> >> >>> for i in list_2:
>> >> ...     list_1.append(i)
>> >> ...
>> >> >>> list_1
>> >> [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> or would another example help you out more?
>> >
>> >
>> > No but really sorry this is what I DONT WANT.......
>> >
>> > The output I want to have is :
>> >
>> > [ [0, 1, 2, 3, 4 ], [5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10] ].....
>>
>> Then, this is what you want :
>>
>> >>david at david-desktop:~$ python
>> Python 2.7.3 (default, Aug  1 2012, 05:16:07)
>> [GCC 4.6.3] on linux2
>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>> >>> list_0 = []
>> >>> list_1 = [i for i in range(0,5)]
>> >>> list_2 = [i for i in range(5,11)]
>> >>> list_0.append(list_1)
>> >>> list_0.append(list_2)
>> >>> list_0
>> [[0, 1, 2, 3, 4], [5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]]

if you have a format for the lists, there might be an easier way, or
simpler. How are the lists coming in?



-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de  Thu Oct 25 06:12:31 2012
From: nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de (Thomas Rachel)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:12:31 +0200
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <k6apaa$eid$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2803.1351119286.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2807.1351121989.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6apaa$eid$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
Message-ID: <k6b3ak$mi7$1@r03.glglgl.gl>

Am 25.10.2012 09:21 schrieb Thomas Rachel:

> I think
>
> # iterate ad inf., because partial never returns None:
> i1 = iter(partial(randrange, n), None)
> # take the next value, make it None for breaking:
> i2 = (j if j in selected else None for j in i1)
> # and now, break on None:
> i3 = iter(lambda: next(i2), None)
>
> would do the job.

But, as I read it now again, it might be cleaner to create an own 
generator function, such as

def rand_values(randrange, n, selected):
     # maybe: selected = set(selected) for the "not in"
     while True:
         val = partial(randrange, n)
         if val not in selected: break
         yield val

for value in rand_values(...):

or, for the general case proposed some posings ago:

def while_values(func, *a, **k):
     while True:
         val = func(*a, **k):
         if not val: break
         yield val

Thomas


From insideshoes at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 06:12:56 2012
From: insideshoes at gmail.com (inshu chauhan)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:12:56 +0200
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJW9MVtmw+M=Fp2Qy0=WSLTf0EEY0pA3rm_wuWBnDeTsOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRFUk0D_xnTZ19t6pK1dfCDKXct7iNps6MT6yjVFpF+bMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<901739839.1116059.1350990465261.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<CAN1F8qXzGO-pav3zrth40JBYNxfxF74ZDaGPnGfKnHZ37x7bYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qWWTAoGM_A=V8qKJ9Cp23XiqYyn3ZdeejzB4PzK5djrZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qVz7EbHNG5cBz_h7U=jrCp4p42cnT8mdtPuyaCEUYf63w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRE9P7RxjfR1jj316ozN39rXyWjQzz1yGThYB-vP=mKs1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZREsGdQC-b2mGUqRESjfA38L2LJR1b_j62AHm66xwkxpvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50890388.8030809@davea.name>
	<CAFqGZRG5QytqNxAfh60RNGv1V-DF8938rbDVy8Tf2S5+g4+oGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<508906DF.1090804@davea.name>
	<CA+vVgJWynjNZDnunR5Obkde45c546ejLDmM9FLDXbQ5Ht3+hug@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRE57tJTD8HNvxR0rR43scOydnpLcFNOmykcabFuXAAh4Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJWmvZ+ixfunHzse+urq9uaGSq4k7WyZCkjGV4WuuLGGvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRFdC9aF3STnX9GAcKmwz8=R5vPih2R+Uex_G5KtcdDyZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJW9MVtmw+M=Fp2Qy0=WSLTf0EEY0pA3rm_wuWBnDeTsOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFqGZREEvDV=MrGCb1g-ZdHu=uENMsoJ05tMKeX5K61NfZAZEQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:04 PM, David Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 5:58 AM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Yes Dave ..You are right and my problem is solved now..  Thanx to all...
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:55 AM, David Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 5:51 AM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Is this what you mean:
> >> >>
> >> list_0 = []
> >> list_1 = [i for i in range(0,5)]
> >> list_2 = [i for i in range(5,11)]
> >> list_0.append(list_1)
> >> list_0.append(list_2)
> >> >> >>> for i in list_2:
> >> >> ...     list_1.append(i)
> >> >> ...
> >> >> >>> list_1
> >> >> [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> or would another example help you out more?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > No but really sorry this is what I DONT WANT.......
> >> >
> >> > The output I want to have is :
> >> >
> >> > [ [0, 1, 2, 3, 4 ], [5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10] ].....
> >>
> >> Then, this is what you want :
> >>
> >> >>david at david-desktop:~$ python
> >> Python 2.7.3 (default, Aug  1 2012, 05:16:07)
> >> [GCC 4.6.3] on linux2
> >> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >> >>> list_0 = []
> >> >>> list_1 = [i for i in range(0,5)]
> >> >>> list_2 = [i for i in range(5,11)]
> >> >>> list_0.append(list_1)
> >> >>> list_0.append(list_2)
> >> >>> list_0
> >> [[0, 1, 2, 3, 4], [5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]]
>
> if you have a format for the lists, there might be an easier way, or
> simpler. How are the lists coming in?
>
> The list are in form of
>
>  first list like [(x,y,z) ]
>
> and another as [(a,b,c), (a+i, b+i, c+i).............]
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> David Hutto
> CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com
>
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From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 06:13:26 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 06:13:26 -0400
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJW9MVtmw+M=Fp2Qy0=WSLTf0EEY0pA3rm_wuWBnDeTsOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRFUk0D_xnTZ19t6pK1dfCDKXct7iNps6MT6yjVFpF+bMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<901739839.1116059.1350990465261.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<CAN1F8qXzGO-pav3zrth40JBYNxfxF74ZDaGPnGfKnHZ37x7bYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qWWTAoGM_A=V8qKJ9Cp23XiqYyn3ZdeejzB4PzK5djrZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qVz7EbHNG5cBz_h7U=jrCp4p42cnT8mdtPuyaCEUYf63w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRE9P7RxjfR1jj316ozN39rXyWjQzz1yGThYB-vP=mKs1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZREsGdQC-b2mGUqRESjfA38L2LJR1b_j62AHm66xwkxpvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50890388.8030809@davea.name>
	<CAFqGZRG5QytqNxAfh60RNGv1V-DF8938rbDVy8Tf2S5+g4+oGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<508906DF.1090804@davea.name>
	<CA+vVgJWynjNZDnunR5Obkde45c546ejLDmM9FLDXbQ5Ht3+hug@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRE57tJTD8HNvxR0rR43scOydnpLcFNOmykcabFuXAAh4Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJWmvZ+ixfunHzse+urq9uaGSq4k7WyZCkjGV4WuuLGGvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRFdC9aF3STnX9GAcKmwz8=R5vPih2R+Uex_G5KtcdDyZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJW9MVtmw+M=Fp2Qy0=WSLTf0EEY0pA3rm_wuWBnDeTsOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJWR4gGXQEOV9LNaAeGtAmLK6okoACN1jQ+xVASX8gjzXg@mail.gmail.com>

Also,

>>> list_1 = [i for i in range(0,5)]
>>> list_2 = [i for i in range(5,11)]
>>> list_0 = [list_1,list_2]
>>> list_0
[[0, 1, 2, 3, 4], [5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]]


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From js at globe.de  Thu Oct 25 06:16:58 2012
From: js at globe.de (Schneider)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:16:58 +0200
Subject: SSH Connection with Python
Message-ID: <5089119A.2040902@globe.de>

Hi Folkz,
how can i create a SSH-Connection with python? I have to send some 
commands to the remote host and parse their answers.
greatz Johannes


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 06:17:12 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 06:17:12 -0400
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CAFqGZREEvDV=MrGCb1g-ZdHu=uENMsoJ05tMKeX5K61NfZAZEQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRFUk0D_xnTZ19t6pK1dfCDKXct7iNps6MT6yjVFpF+bMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<901739839.1116059.1350990465261.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<CAN1F8qXzGO-pav3zrth40JBYNxfxF74ZDaGPnGfKnHZ37x7bYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qWWTAoGM_A=V8qKJ9Cp23XiqYyn3ZdeejzB4PzK5djrZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qVz7EbHNG5cBz_h7U=jrCp4p42cnT8mdtPuyaCEUYf63w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRE9P7RxjfR1jj316ozN39rXyWjQzz1yGThYB-vP=mKs1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZREsGdQC-b2mGUqRESjfA38L2LJR1b_j62AHm66xwkxpvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50890388.8030809@davea.name>
	<CAFqGZRG5QytqNxAfh60RNGv1V-DF8938rbDVy8Tf2S5+g4+oGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<508906DF.1090804@davea.name>
	<CA+vVgJWynjNZDnunR5Obkde45c546ejLDmM9FLDXbQ5Ht3+hug@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRE57tJTD8HNvxR0rR43scOydnpLcFNOmykcabFuXAAh4Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJWmvZ+ixfunHzse+urq9uaGSq4k7WyZCkjGV4WuuLGGvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRFdC9aF3STnX9GAcKmwz8=R5vPih2R+Uex_G5KtcdDyZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJW9MVtmw+M=Fp2Qy0=WSLTf0EEY0pA3rm_wuWBnDeTsOQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZREEvDV=MrGCb1g-ZdHu=uENMsoJ05tMKeX5K61NfZAZEQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJX1FKSJeoo_HSBCrGuqzWVhijj9uacL1unRmz0mt3P9Tw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 6:12 AM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:04 PM, David Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 5:58 AM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Yes Dave ..You are right and my problem is solved now..  Thanx to all...
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:55 AM, David Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 5:51 AM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Is this what you mean:
>> >> >>
>> >> list_0 = []
>> >> list_1 = [i for i in range(0,5)]
>> >> list_2 = [i for i in range(5,11)]
>> >> list_0.append(list_1)
>> >> list_0.append(list_2)
>> >> >> >>> for i in list_2:
>> >> >> ...     list_1.append(i)
>> >> >> ...
>> >> >> >>> list_1
>> >> >> [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> or would another example help you out more?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > No but really sorry this is what I DONT WANT.......
>> >> >
>> >> > The output I want to have is :
>> >> >
>> >> > [ [0, 1, 2, 3, 4 ], [5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10] ].....
>> >>
>> >> Then, this is what you want :
>> >>
>> >> >>david at david-desktop:~$ python
>> >> Python 2.7.3 (default, Aug  1 2012, 05:16:07)
>> >> [GCC 4.6.3] on linux2
>> >> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>> >> >>> list_0 = []
>> >> >>> list_1 = [i for i in range(0,5)]
>> >> >>> list_2 = [i for i in range(5,11)]
>> >> >>> list_0.append(list_1) list_0 = [list_1,list_2]
>> >> >>> list_0.append(list_2)
>> >> >>> list_0
>> >> [[0, 1, 2, 3, 4], [5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]]
>>
>> if you have a format for the lists, there might be an easier way, or
>> simpler. How are the lists coming in?
>>
>> The list are in form of
>>
>>  first list like [(x,y,z) ]
>>
>> and another as [(a,b,c), (a+i, b+i, c+i).............]
>>
This shows tuples though, not appended lists, which are immutable.


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From insideshoes at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 06:19:38 2012
From: insideshoes at gmail.com (inshu chauhan)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:19:38 +0200
Subject: can we append a list with another list in Python ?
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJX1FKSJeoo_HSBCrGuqzWVhijj9uacL1unRmz0mt3P9Tw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRFUk0D_xnTZ19t6pK1dfCDKXct7iNps6MT6yjVFpF+bMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<901739839.1116059.1350990465261.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<CAN1F8qXzGO-pav3zrth40JBYNxfxF74ZDaGPnGfKnHZ37x7bYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qWWTAoGM_A=V8qKJ9Cp23XiqYyn3ZdeejzB4PzK5djrZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qVz7EbHNG5cBz_h7U=jrCp4p42cnT8mdtPuyaCEUYf63w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRE9P7RxjfR1jj316ozN39rXyWjQzz1yGThYB-vP=mKs1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZREsGdQC-b2mGUqRESjfA38L2LJR1b_j62AHm66xwkxpvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50890388.8030809@davea.name>
	<CAFqGZRG5QytqNxAfh60RNGv1V-DF8938rbDVy8Tf2S5+g4+oGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<508906DF.1090804@davea.name>
	<CA+vVgJWynjNZDnunR5Obkde45c546ejLDmM9FLDXbQ5Ht3+hug@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRE57tJTD8HNvxR0rR43scOydnpLcFNOmykcabFuXAAh4Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJWmvZ+ixfunHzse+urq9uaGSq4k7WyZCkjGV4WuuLGGvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRFdC9aF3STnX9GAcKmwz8=R5vPih2R+Uex_G5KtcdDyZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJW9MVtmw+M=Fp2Qy0=WSLTf0EEY0pA3rm_wuWBnDeTsOQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZREEvDV=MrGCb1g-ZdHu=uENMsoJ05tMKeX5K61NfZAZEQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+vVgJX1FKSJeoo_HSBCrGuqzWVhijj9uacL1unRmz0mt3P9Tw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFqGZRGQX1Rsq=+gZX2Q4k0sJd-fjB7ihWU_wAvwrqdbg=Bkzg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:17 PM, David Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 6:12 AM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:04 PM, David Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 5:58 AM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Yes Dave ..You are right and my problem is solved now..  Thanx to
> all...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:55 AM, David Hutto <dwightdhutto at gmail.com
> >
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 5:51 AM, inshu chauhan <
> insideshoes at gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Is this what you mean:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> list_0 = []
> >> >> list_1 = [i for i in range(0,5)]
> >> >> list_2 = [i for i in range(5,11)]
> >> >> list_0.append(list_1)
> >> >> list_0.append(list_2)
> >> >> >> >>> for i in list_2:
> >> >> >> ...     list_1.append(i)
> >> >> >> ...
> >> >> >> >>> list_1
> >> >> >> [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> or would another example help you out more?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > No but really sorry this is what I DONT WANT.......
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The output I want to have is :
> >> >> >
> >> >> > [ [0, 1, 2, 3, 4 ], [5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10] ].....
> >> >>
> >> >> Then, this is what you want :
> >> >>
> >> >> >>david at david-desktop:~$ python
> >> >> Python 2.7.3 (default, Aug  1 2012, 05:16:07)
> >> >> [GCC 4.6.3] on linux2
> >> >> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more
> information.
> >> >> >>> list_0 = []
> >> >> >>> list_1 = [i for i in range(0,5)]
> >> >> >>> list_2 = [i for i in range(5,11)]
> >> >> >>> list_0.append(list_1) list_0 = [list_1,list_2]
> >> >> >>> list_0.append(list_2)
> >> >> >>> list_0
> >> >> [[0, 1, 2, 3, 4], [5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]]
> >>
> >> if you have a format for the lists, there might be an easier way, or
> >> simpler. How are the lists coming in?
> >>
> >> The list are in form of
> >>
> >>  first list like [(x,y,z) ]
> >>
> >> and another as [(a,b,c), (a+i, b+i, c+i).............]
> >>
> This shows tuples though, not appended lists, which are immutable.
>
> My mistake it is :
>
> The list are in form of
> >>
> >>  first list like [ [x,y,z] ]
> >>
> >> and another as  [  [a,b,c], [a+i, b+i, c+i] and so on .............]
> --
> Best Regards,
> David Hutto
> CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com
>
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From gandalf at shopzeus.com  Thu Oct 25 06:34:37 2012
From: gandalf at shopzeus.com (Laszlo Nagy)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:34:37 +0200
Subject: SSH Connection with Python
In-Reply-To: <5089119A.2040902@globe.de>
References: <5089119A.2040902@globe.de>
Message-ID: <508915BD.9050401@shopzeus.com>

On 2012-10-25 12:16, Schneider wrote:
> Hi Folkz,
> how can i create a SSH-Connection with python? I have to send some 
> commands to the remote host and parse their answers.
> greatz Johannes
http://www.lag.net/paramiko/

Another solution would be to use subprocess and/or pexpect




From mkamlesh at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 06:47:56 2012
From: mkamlesh at gmail.com (Kamlesh Mutha)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 16:17:56 +0530
Subject: SSH Connection with Python
In-Reply-To: <508915BD.9050401@shopzeus.com>
References: <5089119A.2040902@globe.de>
	<508915BD.9050401@shopzeus.com>
Message-ID: <CADg3d1O1N9S4wnLPvmXuLkp8nZNuJWofDV=g0Qy_nyt0X_KNgA@mail.gmail.com>

You can use paramiko module. Very easy to use.



On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Laszlo Nagy <gandalf at shopzeus.com> wrote:

> On 2012-10-25 12:16, Schneider wrote:
>
>> Hi Folkz,
>> how can i create a SSH-Connection with python? I have to send some
>> commands to the remote host and parse their answers.
>> greatz Johannes
>>
> http://www.lag.net/paramiko/
>
> Another solution would be to use subprocess and/or pexpect
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-list<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>



-- 
Faith waiting in the heart of a seed promises a miracle of life which it
can not prove!
-Ravindranath Tagore
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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct 25 06:50:53 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Oct 2012 10:50:53 GMT
Subject: while expression feature proposal
References: <50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<20121024222656.GA32708@cskk.homeip.net> <5088779A.3000202@cs.wisc.edu>
	<mailman.2811.1351140683.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6b257$l8k$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
Message-ID: <5089198d$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:52:31 +0200, Thomas Rachel wrote:

> Am 25.10.2012 06:50 schrieb Terry Reedy:
> 
>> Keep in mind that any new syntax has to be a substantial improvement in
>> some sense or make something new possible. There was no new syntax in
>> 3.2 and very little in 3.3.
> 
> I would consinder this at least as new substantial than
> 
>      yield_from it
> 
> as opposed to
> 
>      for i in it: yield i
> 
> - although I think that was a good idea as well.

Then I think you have misunderstood the purpose of "yield from". The fact 
that you can replace the two lines:

for value in another_iterator:
    yield iterator

with a one-liner "yield from another_iterator" is the least important use-
case for yield-from. If that was the only use-case, it probably would not 
have been allowed, because it adds complication to the language for a 
trivial gain.

The purpose of yield-from is to transfer control to another coroutine, 
not to save one trivial line of code.

[quote]
However, if the subgenerator is to interact properly with the caller in 
the case of calls to send(), throw() and close(), things become 
considerably more difficult. As will be seen later, the necessary code is 
very complicated, and it is tricky to handle all the corner cases 
correctly.

A new syntax will be proposed to address this issue. In the simplest use 
cases, it will be equivalent to the above for-loop, but it will also 
handle the full range of generator behaviour, and allow generator code to 
be refactored in a simple and straightforward way.
[end quote]

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0380/


"yield from" is a *huge* win in terms of correctness and power, not just 
a trivial saving in lines of code. "while expr as var" is not.


-- 
Steven


From kurabas at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 07:09:56 2012
From: kurabas at gmail.com (kurabas at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 04:09:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to set 250000 baud rate in pyserial ?
Message-ID: <d5871091-63c8-4582-9485-138195cf6d36@googlegroups.com>

I use Arduino 1280 and Arduino 2560 under Fedora 15. 
1280 creates ttyUSB0 port  and can be set at 2500000 successfully.
2560 creates ttyACM0 port and can be only set at speeds from list (no 250000) in pyserial. How to set 250000 to ttyACM0 port?? Need I patch kernel or python?


From nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de  Thu Oct 25 07:20:01 2012
From: nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de (Thomas Rachel)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 13:20:01 +0200
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <5089198d$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<20121024222656.GA32708@cskk.homeip.net>
	<5088779A.3000202@cs.wisc.edu>
	<mailman.2811.1351140683.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6b257$l8k$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<5089198d$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <k6b798$qdm$1@r03.glglgl.gl>

Am 25.10.2012 12:50 schrieb Steven D'Aprano:

> Then I think you have misunderstood the purpose of "yield from".

Seems so. As I have not yet switched to 3.x, I haven't used it till now.

> [quote]
> However, if the subgenerator is to interact properly with the caller in
> the case of calls to send(), throw() and close(), things become
> considerably more difficult. As will be seen later, the necessary code is
> very complicated, and it is tricky to handle all the corner cases
> correctly.

Ok, thanks.


Thomas


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Thu Oct 25 07:22:17 2012
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 13:22:17 +0200
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <k6agfp$3o0$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>	<20121024222656.GA32708@cskk.homeip.net>	<5088779A.3000202@cs.wisc.edu>
	<k6agfp$3o0$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <508920E9.8000801@rece.vub.ac.be>

On 25-10-12 06:50, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 10/24/2012 7:19 PM, Evan Driscoll wrote:
>> On 10/24/2012 05:26 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:
>>> But I'm still -0 on it, because it supplants the glaringly obvious:
>>>
>>>    m = ...
>>>
>>> assignment with the far less in your face:
>>>
>>>    possibly-long-expr as m
>>>
>>> and I think it would get quite heavily used, to the detriment of
>>> assignment readability in general. At present the nature of most
>>> effects
>>> is at the left. An assignment is obvious on the left, an
>>> if/with/while/etc
>>> is visible at the left.
>>
>> In the interest of brainstorming, what about
>>
>>     while VAR from EXPR:
>>
>> or something like that? I don't think I like 'from' on a couple counts,
>> but there's probably some word that fits.
>
> The op wondered if these proposals have been made before. They have
> been, and have been rejected. Some of the discussion has been on
> python-ideas list. But go ahead and brainstorm and discuss.
>
> Keep in mind that any new syntax has to be a substantial improvement
> in some sense or make something new possible. There was no new syntax
> in 3.2 and very little in 3.3.

If I recal correctly at one point the following was accepted:

do:
    suite
while expr:
    suite

But it was later discarded because of lack of a champion or something
like that.

-- 
Antoon Pardon
 


From nospam at nospam.com  Thu Oct 25 07:45:41 2012
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 13:45:41 +0200
Subject: Question about long-running web scripts
Message-ID: <nm8i889v1p5orgk4dkvtcurguk11lvm6r8@4ax.com>

Hello

I'd like to check something about running Python web applications.

Generally speaking, the reason scripts run faster when called through
FastCGI or the mod_* modules, is because the interpreter is already up
and running.
But when running PHP scripts, this does nothing about fetching the
file from disk, recompiling, rerunning it, and usually reconnecting to
the database.

OTOH, Python web scripts can be written as long-running scripts: In
this case, what is the added-value of using FastCGI? Why can't the web
server simply call the Python script directly, just like CGI?

Thank you.


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Thu Oct 25 08:03:14 2012
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 13:03:14 +0100
Subject: Question about long-running web scripts
In-Reply-To: <nm8i889v1p5orgk4dkvtcurguk11lvm6r8@4ax.com>
References: <nm8i889v1p5orgk4dkvtcurguk11lvm6r8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <50892A82.2070206@timgolden.me.uk>

On 25/10/2012 12:45, Gilles wrote:
> I'd like to check something about running Python web applications.
> 
> Generally speaking, the reason scripts run faster when called
> through FastCGI or the mod_* modules, is because the interpreter is
> already up and running. But when running PHP scripts, this does
> nothing about fetching the file from disk, recompiling, rerunning it,
> and usually reconnecting to the database.
> 
> OTOH, Python web scripts can be written as long-running scripts: In 
> this case, what is the added-value of using FastCGI? Why can't the
> web server simply call the Python script directly, just like CGI?

(Your question is a little confused at the end. I'm choosing to
understand: why can't we just run Python one-shot, like CGI? The likely
alternative meaning is: why can't the incoming request be routed to an
already-running Python program -- which is not, of course, what CGI
generally does. Hence my confusion).

The answer is: it can. CGI is a protocol rather than anything else. In
front of a CGI exchange is the browser (or some other web client).
Behind it is some program which is capable of producing a valid HTTP
response, including a Python program.

It's perfectly possible to run a usable website against Python running
one-shot. You won't get terrific performance out of it, but for a
website which doesn't expect humungous amounts of traffic, it'll work fine.

The amount of time it takes a half-decent, even shared, server to start
up a Python process, connect to a database, pull stuff together, and
send a response will likely not impact on an average user's experience.
As long as too many of them don't try to do that at the same time.
Exactly where the line is drawn will depend on your particular hosting
solution, your assumed traffic, and your users' expectations as to
responsiveness.

TJG


From roy at panix.com  Thu Oct 25 08:18:47 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 08:18:47 -0400
Subject: SSH Connection with Python
References: <mailman.2834.1351161105.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-77F377.08184725102012@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2834.1351161105.27098.python-list at python.org>,
 Schneider <js at globe.de> wrote:

> Hi Folkz,
> how can i create a SSH-Connection with python? I have to send some 
> commands to the remote host and parse their answers.
> greatz Johannes

At a low level, you want to look at the paramiko library.  Built on top 
of that, and adding hoards of neat functionality, is fabric.  One of 
these is likely to be what you're looking for.

http://www.lag.net/paramiko/

https://github.com/fabric/fabric


From nospam at nospam.com  Thu Oct 25 08:40:56 2012
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:40:56 +0200
Subject: Question about long-running web scripts
References: <nm8i889v1p5orgk4dkvtcurguk11lvm6r8@4ax.com>
	<mailman.2838.1351166605.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <skci88lm21ldghic8k4leo8n6tminmam5l@4ax.com>

On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 13:03:14 +0100, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk>
wrote:
>(Your question is a little confused at the end. I'm choosing to
>understand: why can't we just run Python one-shot, like CGI? The likely
>alternative meaning is: why can't the incoming request be routed to an
>already-running Python program -- which is not, of course, what CGI
>generally does. Hence my confusion).

Yes indeed. Sorry about the confusion.

But actually, I didn't mean one-shot scripts, where the Python
interpreter + script must be loaded each time, but rather: If I leave
a Python running in an endless loop, why not just use either CGI or
some other basic way to call the script instead of FastCGI?

In the case of PHP, FastCGI makes sense, but I don't see the benefit
for long-running Python scripts.


From neilc at norwich.edu  Thu Oct 25 08:49:20 2012
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 25 Oct 2012 12:49:20 GMT
Subject: simple string format question
References: <k5guje$ui$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2200.1350305892.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<m27gqfkya5.fsf@cochabamba.vanoostrum.org>
Message-ID: <aesqqgFlq7dU1@mid.individual.net>

On 2012-10-25, Piet van Oostrum <piet at vanoostrum.org> wrote:
> Adrien <adnothing at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> print "{:.3g}".format(2.356)  # this rounds up
>
> But:
>
>>>> print "{:.3g}".format(12.356) 
> 12.4
>>>> print "{:.3g}".format(123.356) 
> 123


  The precision is a decimal number indicating how many digits
  should be displayed after the decimal point for a floating
  point value formatted with 'f' and 'F', or before and after the
  decimal point for a floating point value formatted with 'g' or
  'G'. For non-number types the field indicates the maximum field
  size - in other words, how many characters will be used from
  the field content. The precision is not allowed for integer
  values.

So g will print a specific number of significant digits, so it
won't do what Adrien wants.

And f will print a fixed number of digits after the decimal
point, so it won't do want Adrien wants.

Adrien, you will need to do some post-processing on fixed point
output to remove trailing zeroes.

>>> print("{:.2f}".format(2.1).rstrip('0'))
2.1
>>> print("{:.2f}".format(2.127).rstrip('0'))
2.13

-- 
Neil Cerutti


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 08:53:11 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 08:53:11 -0400
Subject: Question about long-running web scripts
In-Reply-To: <50892A82.2070206@timgolden.me.uk>
References: <nm8i889v1p5orgk4dkvtcurguk11lvm6r8@4ax.com>
	<50892A82.2070206@timgolden.me.uk>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJWp7DbqJJCWotyuafDK+UKEUFvV025R=taAPdNSk+sfJw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 8:03 AM, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
> On 25/10/2012 12:45, Gilles wrote:
>> I'd like to check something about running Python web applications.
>>
>> Generally speaking, the reason scripts run faster when called
>> through FastCGI or the mod_* modules, is because the interpreter is
>> already up and running. But when running PHP scripts, this does
>> nothing about fetching the file from disk, recompiling, rerunning it,
>> and usually reconnecting to the database.
>>

I'd say that is the same as py, unless it's a cron job to limit script
iterations

>> OTOH, Python web scripts can be written as long-running scripts: In
>> this case, what is the added-value of using FastCGI? Why can't the
>> web server simply call the Python script directly, just like CGI?

The server should call a the script, or script.sleep()

There are also server options to setup when a script is run, other
than a cron jo for php.

>
> (Your question is a little confused at the end. I'm choosing to
> understand: why can't we just run Python one-shot, like CGI? The likely
> alternative meaning is: why can't the incoming request be routed to an
> already-running Python program -- which is not, of course, what CGI
> generally does. Hence my confusion).
>
> The answer is: it can. CGI is a protocol rather than anything else. In
> front of a CGI exchange is the browser (or some other web client).
> Behind it is some program which is capable of producing a valid HTTP
> response, including a Python program.
>
> It's perfectly possible to run a usable website against Python running
> one-shot. You won't get terrific performance out of it, but for a
> website which doesn't expect humungous amounts of traffic, it'll work fine.
>
> The amount of time it takes a half-decent, even shared, server to start
> up a Python process, connect to a database, pull stuff together, and
> send a response will likely not impact on an average user's experience.
> As long as too many of them don't try to do that at the same time.
> Exactly where the line is drawn will depend on your particular hosting
> solution, your assumed traffic, and your users' expectations as to
> responsiveness.
>
> TJG
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Thu Oct 25 09:24:16 2012
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:24:16 +0100
Subject: Question about long-running web scripts
In-Reply-To: <skci88lm21ldghic8k4leo8n6tminmam5l@4ax.com>
References: <nm8i889v1p5orgk4dkvtcurguk11lvm6r8@4ax.com>
	<mailman.2838.1351166605.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<skci88lm21ldghic8k4leo8n6tminmam5l@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <50893D80.8040701@timgolden.me.uk>

On 25/10/2012 13:40, Gilles wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 13:03:14 +0100, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk>
> wrote:
>> (Your question is a little confused at the end. I'm choosing to
>> understand: why can't we just run Python one-shot, like CGI? The likely
>> alternative meaning is: why can't the incoming request be routed to an
>> already-running Python program -- which is not, of course, what CGI
>> generally does. Hence my confusion).
> 
> Yes indeed. Sorry about the confusion.
> 
> But actually, I didn't mean one-shot scripts, where the Python
> interpreter + script must be loaded each time, but rather: If I leave
> a Python running in an endless loop, why not just use either CGI or
> some other basic way to call the script instead of FastCGI?

In essence, you're describing FastCGI. A Python program (or, indeed, any
program) which uses FastCGI runs continuously and waits for the incoming
request on a TCP socket (instead of as a sys.stdin stream + env vars
immediately after process startup).

The key description is here:

  http://www.fastcgi.com/drupal/node/6?q=node/15

(The sections have no anchors; you're looking for the section titled "2.
FastCGI Interface")

TJG


From andriy.kornatskyy at live.com  Thu Oct 25 09:47:27 2012
From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com (Andriy Kornatskyy)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 16:47:27 +0300
Subject: Fastest web framework
In-Reply-To: <DUB117-W80EE2285B5E415AA14B5B9919F0@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB117-W80EE2285B5E415AA14B5B9919F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <DUB117-W137037B0286A71F0F9ABC59917F0@phx.gbl>


Web content caching is the most effective type of cache. This way your python handler is not executed to determine a valid response to user, instead one returned from cache. Since the operation is that simple, it should be the maximum possible speed your `real world` application capable to provide.

The web content caching benchmark is provided for two types of caching: memory and distributed. There is payed attention how gzip transform impact throughput of cached content.?Read more here:

http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/10/python-web-caching-benchmark.html

Your ability to utilize managed (semi-real time) caching is essential to be able run your `real world` at the speed of `hello world`. Read more here:

http://packages.python.org/wheezy.http/userguide.html#content-cache
http://packages.python.org/wheezy.web/tutorial.html

Compare throughput with numbers from the other post:

http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/09/python-fastest-web-framework.html

Comments or suggestions are welcome.

Thanks.

Andriy Kornatskyy

----------------------------------------
> From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Fastest web framework
> Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 12:19:16 +0300
>
>
> I have run recently a benchmark of a trivial 'hello world' application for various python web frameworks (bottle, django, flask, pyramid, web.py, wheezy.web) hosted in uWSGI/cpython2.7 and gunicorn/pypy1.9... you might find it interesting:
>
> http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/09/python-fastest-web-framework.html
>
> Comments or suggestions are welcome.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Andriy Kornatskyy
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
 		 	   		  

From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 09:54:43 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 06:54:43 -0700
Subject: SSH Connection with Python
In-Reply-To: <5089119A.2040902@globe.de>
References: <5089119A.2040902@globe.de>
Message-ID: <A567FEE1-55AC-46F9-920A-7DED6DB27B68@gmail.com>


On 2012-10-25, at 3:16 AM, Schneider <js at globe.de> wrote:

> how can i create a SSH-Connection with python? I have to send some commands to the remote host and parse their answers.


I have yet to use it, but Fabric (http://docs.fabfile.org/en/1.4.3/) should have everything you're looking for. I've heard nothing but good things about it.

Demian Brecht
@demianbrecht
http://demianbrecht.github.com






From invalid at invalid.invalid  Thu Oct 25 10:15:05 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:15:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: while expression feature proposal
References: <50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2800.1351117627.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k6bhh9$9hi$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-24, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:

>| I must say I really like the parity of Dan's
>|   while EXPR as VAR:
>|      BLOCK
>| proposal with the "with" statement.
>
> Well, it's nice. But usually EXPR will be a boolean.

I guess that depends on what sort of programs you write.  In my
experience, EXPR is usually a read from a file/socket/pipe that
returns '' on EOF. If VAR is not '', then you process, then you
process it inside the loop.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! We're going to a
                                  at               new disco!
                              gmail.com            


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Thu Oct 25 10:17:57 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:17:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: while expression feature proposal
References: <50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<20121024222656.GA32708@cskk.homeip.net> <5088779A.3000202@cs.wisc.edu>
	<mailman.2811.1351140683.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k6bhml$9hi$2@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-25, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

> The op wondered if these proposals have been made before. They have 
> been, and have been rejected. Some of the discussion has been on 
> python-ideas list. But go ahead and brainstorm and discuss.
>
> Keep in mind that any new syntax has to be a substantial improvement in 
> some sense or make something new possible. There was no new syntax in 
> 3.2 and very little in 3.3.

I think the new syntax should be introduced in 2.00.  There were a
number of other big changes between 1.52 and 2.00, so that seems like
a good spot to put this change.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! !!  I am having fun!!!
                                  at               
                              gmail.com            


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 10:27:24 2012
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (andrea crotti)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:27:24 +0100
Subject: resume execution after catching with an excepthook?
In-Reply-To: <5088929e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2758.1351083094.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5088929e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAF_E5JYrtsbAzwNcqV0LfFzd82DBZw9oqytNeGxoY8gs-vPLJA@mail.gmail.com>

2012/10/25 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info>:
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 13:51:30 +0100, andrea crotti wrote:
>
>> So I would like to be able to ask for confirmation when I receive a C-c,
>> and continue if the answer is "N/n".
>
> I don't think there is any way to do this directly.
>
> Without a try...except block, execution will cease after an exception is
> caught, even when using sys.excepthook. I don't believe that there is any
> way to jump back to the line of code that just failed (and why would you,
> it will just fail again) or the next line (which will likely fail because
> the previous line failed).
>
> I think the only way you can do this is to write your own execution loop:
>
> while True:
>     try:
>         run(next_command())
>     except KeyboardInterrupt:
>         if confirm_quit():
>             break
>
>
> Of course you need to make run() atomic, or use transactions that can be
> reverted or backed out of. How plausible this is depends on what you are
> trying to do -- Python's Ctrl-C is not really designed to be ignored.
>
> Perhaps a better approach would be to treat Ctrl-C as an unconditional
> exit, and periodically poll the keyboard for another key press to use as
> a conditional exit. Here's a snippet of platform-specific code to get a
> key press:
>
> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577977
>
> Note however that it blocks if there is no key press waiting.
>
> I suspect that you may need a proper event loop, as provided by GUI
> frameworks, or curses.
>
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



Ok thanks, but here the point is not to resume something that is going
to fail again, just to avoid accidental kill of processes that take a
long time.  Probably needed only by me in debugging mode, but anyway I
can do the simple try/except then, thanks..


From charleshixsn at earthlink.net  Thu Oct 25 10:47:58 2012
From: charleshixsn at earthlink.net (Charles Hixson)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 07:47:58 -0700
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
Message-ID: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net>

In Python3 is there any good way to count the number of on bits in an 
integer (after an & operation)?
Alternatively, is there any VERY light-weight implementation of a bit 
set?  I'd prefer to use integers, as I'm probably going to need 
thousands of these, if the tests work out.  But before I can test, I 
need a decent bit counter.  (shift, xor, &, and | are already present 
for integer values, but I also need to count the number of "true" items 
after the logical operation.  So if a bitset is the correct approach, 
I'll need it to implement those operations, or their equivalents in 
terms of union and intersection.)

Or do I need to drop into C for this?

-- 
Charles Hixson



From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 10:51:43 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 01:51:43 +1100
Subject: resume execution after catching with an excepthook?
In-Reply-To: <5088929e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2758.1351083094.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5088929e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqDPYBBzof5iSTCQeE9uPP4E6bUiTG62w2J5WY86w6dAg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> I don't believe that there is any
> way to jump back to the line of code that just failed (and why would you,
> it will just fail again)

There are several reasons to retry something after an exception,
mainly if some external state gets changed. Virtual memory is usually
implemented using traps, so the OS handles an interrupt by paging
something in from the disk, then retrying the "failing" instruction.
The old-favorite "Abort, retry, ignore[, fail]?" prompt from DOS has
the same notion; you tried to save a file onto a write-protected
floppy disk, an exception is thrown, you handle the exception by
getting the user to unprotect or change disks, and you resume where
you left off. CPU-level interrupts always have a return address for
that exact reason.

Handling Ctrl-C in this way makes a lot of sense. Give the user the
option to try to abort, but then to optionally change his/her mind and
keep going. Or possibly have a third option: break out of the current
operation and go back to some primary loop (throw the exception and
let it be caught at the main loop).

Arguably the problem here is that KeyboardInterrupt is an exception.
Perhaps a more classic signal handling structure should be used: when
signal received, call function. That function then has the power to
raise an exception, which will propagate through whatever code is
currently executing. This sort of thing would have all the usual
dangers of signal handlers, though; you have NO IDEA what state the
program's in, so you have to be ubercareful of what globals you use or
change.

ChrisA


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Oct 25 11:18:54 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 16:18:54 +0100
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
In-Reply-To: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net>
References: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5089585E.4010101@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-25 15:47, Charles Hixson wrote:
> In Python3 is there any good way to count the number of on bits in an
> integer (after an & operation)?
> Alternatively, is there any VERY light-weight implementation of a bit
> set?  I'd prefer to use integers, as I'm probably going to need
> thousands of these, if the tests work out.  But before I can test, I
> need a decent bit counter.  (shift, xor, &, and | are already present
> for integer values, but I also need to count the number of "true" items
> after the logical operation.  So if a bitset is the correct approach,
> I'll need it to implement those operations, or their equivalents in
> terms of union and intersection.)
>
> Or do I need to drop into C for this?
>
There's a nice algorithm for counting the ones. It takes one iteration
per set bit:

def count_set_bits(number):
     count = 0
     while number:
         count += 1
         number &= number - 1
     return count



From christian at python.org  Thu Oct 25 11:25:47 2012
From: christian at python.org (Christian Heimes)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 17:25:47 +0200
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
In-Reply-To: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net>
References: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <k6bllq$3gt$1@ger.gmane.org>

Am 25.10.2012 16:47, schrieb Charles Hixson:
> In Python3 is there any good way to count the number of on bits in an
> integer (after an & operation)?


Simple, easy, faster than a Python loop but not very elegant:

   bin(number).count("1")

Christian




From hansmu at xs4all.nl  Thu Oct 25 11:31:26 2012
From: hansmu at xs4all.nl (Hans Mulder)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 17:31:26 +0200
Subject: resume execution after catching with an excepthook?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2758.1351083094.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2758.1351083094.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <50895b4f$0$6931$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 24/10/12 14:51:30, andrea crotti wrote:
> So I would like to be able to ask for confirmation when I receive a C-c,
> and continue if the answer is "N/n".
> 
> I'm already using an exception handler set with sys.excepthook, but I
> can't make it work with the confirm_exit, because it's going to quit in
> any case..
> 
> A possible solution would be to do a global "try/except
> KeyboardInterrupt", but since I already have an excepthook I wanted to
> use this.  Any way to make it continue where it was running after the
> exception is handled?
> 
> 
> def confirm_exit():
>     while True:
>         q = raw_input("This will quit the program, are you sure? [y/N]")
>         if q in ('y', 'Y'):
>             sys.exit(0)
>         elif q in ('n', 'N'):
>             print("Continuing execution")
>             # just go back to normal execution, is it possible??
>             break
> 
> 
> def _exception_handler(etype, value, tb):
>     if etype == KeyboardInterrupt:
>         confirm_exit()
>     else:
>         sys.exit(1)
> 
> 
> def set_exception_handler():
>     sys.excepthook = _exception_handler

I think the trick is to not use an except hook, but trap the
interrupt on a lower level.

This seems to work; I'm not sure how robust it is:

import signal

def handler(signum, frame):
    while True:
        q = raw_input("This will quit the program, are you sure? [y/N]")
        if q[:1] in "yY":
            raise KeyboardInterrupt
        elif q[:1] in "nN":
            print("Continuing execution")
            # just go back to normal execution
            return

signal.signal(signal.SIGINT, handler)


If you're debugging this on a Unix platform, it may help to know
that you can also kill a process with control-\

Hope this helps,

-- HansM




From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 11:31:53 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 02:31:53 +1100
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
In-Reply-To: <k6bllq$3gt$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net>
	<k6bllq$3gt$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqp2EKUje--dak3ZfO6thL+tBypcEAvYYavqdGxdZRFtA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 2:25 AM, Christian Heimes <christian at python.org> wrote:
> Simple, easy, faster than a Python loop but not very elegant:
>
>    bin(number).count("1")

Unlikely to be fast.

What you may want is some sort of hybrid loop/lookup approach. Do you
know what your highest bit number is going to be? For instance, are
all your integers 32-bit? You could use something like this:

c = bitcount[n&255] + bitcount[n>>8&255] + bitcount[n>>16&255] + bitcount[n>>24]

where bitcount is a list of 256 values, giving the counts for each
value from 0 to 255.

Profile and test. :)

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct 25 11:40:44 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Oct 2012 15:40:44 GMT
Subject: resume execution after catching with an excepthook?
References: <mailman.2758.1351083094.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5088929e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2845.1351176706.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <50895d7b$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 01:51:43 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> I don't believe that there is any
>> way to jump back to the line of code that just failed (and why would
>> you, it will just fail again)
> 
> There are several reasons to retry something after an exception, 

I'm sure there are, but you're taking my point out of context. 

Andrea described his problem as *continuing*, not *re-trying*. I 
understand that re-trying operations is useful:

while True:
    try:
        some_operation()
    except SomeException:
        if not retry():
            break  # or raise an exception, or return


but I wouldn't describe that as "continuing", as Andrea did. I understand 
that as:

try:
    operation(1)
    operation(2)
    operation(3)
    operation(4)
    # and so forth...
except SomeException:
    if retry():
        # Magically jump back to the operation that was
        # active when the exception occurred.
        magic_happens_here()


If you could guarantee that each operation(N) was atomic ("all or 
nothing" -- it either succeeds, or has no effect) then such a feature 
would be useful. But as far as I know, you can't jump back into a try 
block from the except block, and even if you could, what's to stop the 
operation from failing again and again and again?
        
In Andrea's case, the failure he is worried about is "oops, I hit Ctrl-C 
when I actually wanted to not hit Ctrl-C", so presumably the failure 
wouldn't reoccur if you could jump backwards. But in any case, I can see 
no obvious way to make it work.

The python debugger pdb has a "jump" command that allows you to step 
backwards and re-execute code under certain conditions, so perhaps it is 
not quite impossible.

(I'm tempted to reply that the actual solution to this problem of 
accidentally hitting Ctrl-C is "well don't do that then".)



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct 25 11:57:07 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Oct 2012 15:57:07 GMT
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
References: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net> <k6bllq$3gt$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2849.1351179123.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <50896152$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 02:31:53 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 2:25 AM, Christian Heimes <christian at python.org>
> wrote:
>> Simple, easy, faster than a Python loop but not very elegant:
>>
>>    bin(number).count("1")
> 
> Unlikely to be fast.

Oh I don't know about that. Here's some timing results using Python 2.7:

py> from timeit import Timer
py> t = Timer('bin(number).count("1")', setup='number=2**10001-1')
py> min(t.repeat(number=10000, repeat=7))
0.6819710731506348

Compare to MRAB's suggestion:

def count_set_bits(number):
     count = 0
     while number:
         count += 1
         number &= number - 1
     return count

py> t = Timer('count_set_bits(number)', 
...     setup='from __main__ import count_set_bits; number=2**10001-1')
py> min(t.repeat(number=100, repeat=7))
4.141788959503174


That makes the "inelegant" solution using bin() and count() about 600 
times faster than the mathematically clever solution using bitwise 
operations.

On the other hand, I'm guessing that PyPy would speed up MRAB's version 
significantly.



-- 
Steven


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 12:02:11 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 03:02:11 +1100
Subject: resume execution after catching with an excepthook?
In-Reply-To: <50895b4f$0$6931$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.2758.1351083094.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<50895b4f$0$6931$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpTMOJTBkxR1GNDd==kKatwZS4D8iJ4EO_j7Ak8=oRqYA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 2:31 AM, Hans Mulder <hansmu at xs4all.nl> wrote:
> This seems to work; I'm not sure how robust it is:
>
> import signal
>
> def handler(signum, frame):
>     while True:
>         q = raw_input("This will quit the program, are you sure? [y/N]")
>         if q[:1] in "yY":
>             raise KeyboardInterrupt
>         elif q[:1] in "nN":
>             print("Continuing execution")
>             # just go back to normal execution
>             return
>
> signal.signal(signal.SIGINT, handler)
>

Yes, that's what I was talking about. You do have to be fairly careful
what you do (for instance, what should happen if the user hits Ctrl-C
during handler()? Default is that it'll raise KeyboardInterrupt
unconditionally), but you have perfect flexibility.

ChrisA


From charleshixsn at earthlink.net  Thu Oct 25 12:08:39 2012
From: charleshixsn at earthlink.net (Charles Hixson)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 09:08:39 -0700
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
In-Reply-To: <50896152$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net> <k6bllq$3gt$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2849.1351179123.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<50896152$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <50896407.8070706@earthlink.net>

On 10/25/2012 08:57 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 02:31:53 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 2:25 AM, Christian Heimes<christian at python.org>
>> wrote:
>>> Simple, easy, faster than a Python loop but not very elegant:
>>>
>>>     bin(number).count("1")
>> Unlikely to be fast.
> Oh I don't know about that. Here's some timing results using Python 2.7:
>
> py>  from timeit import Timer
> py>  t = Timer('bin(number).count("1")', setup='number=2**10001-1')
> py>  min(t.repeat(number=10000, repeat=7))
> 0.6819710731506348
>
> Compare to MRAB's suggestion:
>
> def count_set_bits(number):
>       count = 0
>       while number:
>           count += 1
>           number&= number - 1
>       return count
>
> py>  t = Timer('count_set_bits(number)',
> ...     setup='from __main__ import count_set_bits; number=2**10001-1')
> py>  min(t.repeat(number=100, repeat=7))
> 4.141788959503174
>
>
> That makes the "inelegant" solution using bin() and count() about 600
> times faster than the mathematically clever solution using bitwise
> operations.
>
> On the other hand, I'm guessing that PyPy would speed up MRAB's version
> significantly.
>
>
>
Really nice and good to know.  I had guessed the other way.   (As you 
point out this is compiler dependent, and I'll be using Python3, 
but...conversion from an int to a bit string must be a *lot* faster than 
I had thought.)

-- 
Charles Hixson



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 12:13:56 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 09:13:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
References: <mailman.2846.1351176984.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a4a3d0f1-b5d8-4f76-a7b7-bda8936761ae@i7g2000pbf.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 25, 7:56?pm, Charles Hixson <charleshi... at earthlink.net> wrote:
> In Python3 is there any good way to count the number of on bits in an
> integer (after an & operation)?
> Alternatively, is there any VERY light-weight implementation of a bit
> set? ?I'd prefer to use integers, as I'm probably going to need
> thousands of these, if the tests work out. ?But before I can test, I
> need a decent bit counter. ?(shift, xor, &, and | are already present
> for integer values, but I also need to count the number of "true" items
> after the logical operation. ?So if a bitset is the correct approach,
> I'll need it to implement those operations, or their equivalents in
> terms of union and intersection.)
>
> Or do I need to drop into C for this?
>
> --
> Charles Hixson

You may have already checked it out and find it unsuitable...
I guess you know that python has good implementation of sets
http://docs.python.org/library/sets.html ?


From nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de  Thu Oct 25 12:15:36 2012
From: nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de (Thomas Rachel)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 18:15:36 +0200
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <k6bhh9$9hi$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2800.1351117627.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6bhh9$9hi$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <k6boj8$8ho$1@r03.glglgl.gl>

Am 25.10.2012 16:15 schrieb Grant Edwards:

> I guess that depends on what sort of programs you write.  In my
> experience, EXPR is usually a read from a file/socket/pipe that
> returns '' on EOF. If VAR is not '', then you process, then you
> process it inside the loop.

Right. The same as in

if regex.search(string) as match:
     process it

But with

def if_true(expr):
     if expr: yield expr

you can do

for match in if_true(regex.search(string)):
     process it

But the proposed if ... as ...: statment woulkd be more beautiful by far.

Thomas


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 12:17:40 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 09:17:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
References: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net> <k6bllq$3gt$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2849.1351179123.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<50896152$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <41338e78-a3d9-4ab6-ab53-79ded90411c6@vy11g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 25, 8:57?pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 02:31:53 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 2:25 AM, Christian Heimes <christ... at python.org>
> > wrote:
> >> Simple, easy, faster than a Python loop but not very elegant:
>
> >> ? ?bin(number).count("1")
>
> > Unlikely to be fast.
>
> Oh I don't know about that. Here's some timing results using Python 2.7:
>
> py> from timeit import Timer
> py> t = Timer('bin(number).count("1")', setup='number=2**10001-1')
> py> min(t.repeat(number=10000, repeat=7))
> 0.6819710731506348
>
> Compare to MRAB's suggestion:
>
> def count_set_bits(number):
> ? ? ?count = 0
> ? ? ?while number:
> ? ? ? ? ?count += 1
> ? ? ? ? ?number &= number - 1
> ? ? ?return count
>
> py> t = Timer('count_set_bits(number)',
> ... ? ? setup='from __main__ import count_set_bits; number=2**10001-1')
> py> min(t.repeat(number=100, repeat=7))
> 4.141788959503174
>
> That makes the "inelegant" solution using bin() and count() about 600
> times faster than the mathematically clever solution using bitwise
> operations.

You meant 600% I think?


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Oct 25 12:24:29 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 17:24:29 +0100
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
In-Reply-To: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net>
References: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <k6bovo$5ve$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 25/10/2012 15:47, Charles Hixson wrote:
> In Python3 is there any good way to count the number of on bits in an
> integer (after an & operation)?
> Alternatively, is there any VERY light-weight implementation of a bit
> set?  I'd prefer to use integers, as I'm probably going to need
> thousands of these, if the tests work out.  But before I can test, I
> need a decent bit counter.  (shift, xor, &, and | are already present
> for integer values, but I also need to count the number of "true" items
> after the logical operation.  So if a bitset is the correct approach,
> I'll need it to implement those operations, or their equivalents in
> terms of union and intersection.)
>
> Or do I need to drop into C for this?
>

If needed bitarray and bitstring are available on pypi.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 12:29:37 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 03:29:37 +1100
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
In-Reply-To: <41338e78-a3d9-4ab6-ab53-79ded90411c6@vy11g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net> <k6bllq$3gt$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2849.1351179123.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<50896152$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<41338e78-a3d9-4ab6-ab53-79ded90411c6@vy11g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpxgphEXDBgbgDjN+uB2dz5MJ+tv06fniDfsE+UX6p6ww@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 3:17 AM, rusi <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 25, 8:57 pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
> +comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> py> min(t.repeat(number=10000, repeat=7))
>> 0.6819710731506348
>> py> min(t.repeat(number=100, repeat=7))
>> 4.141788959503174
>>
>> That makes the "inelegant" solution using bin() and count() about 600
>> times faster than the mathematically clever solution using bitwise
>> operations.
>
> You meant 600% I think?

It took six times longer to do one hundredth the iterations.

ChrisA


From drsalists at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 12:35:10 2012
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 09:35:10 -0700
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
In-Reply-To: <k6bovo$5ve$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net>
	<k6bovo$5ve$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAGGBd_pm2OEO+xxk612yTFfUkCYYrSFQ0husnVqmyQP=X8vO=A@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:24 AM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk>wrote:

> On 25/10/2012 15:47, Charles Hixson wrote:
>
>> In Python3 is there any good way to count the number of on bits in an
>> integer (after an & operation)?
>> Alternatively, is there any VERY light-weight implementation of a bit
>> set?  I'd prefer to use integers, as I'm probably going to need
>> thousands of these, if the tests work out.  But before I can test, I
>> need a decent bit counter.  (shift, xor, &, and | are already present
>> for integer values, but I also need to count the number of "true" items
>> after the logical operation.  So if a bitset is the correct approach,
>> I'll need it to implement those operations, or their equivalents in
>> terms of union and intersection.)
>>
>> Or do I need to drop into C for this?
>>
>>
> If needed bitarray and bitstring are available on pypi.
>

There's also my bits_mod.py:  http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/svn/bits/trunk/

I separated it out of my bloom filter code recently, to facilitate a prime
number sieve.

Behind the scenes it's an array of int's.
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From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 12:36:47 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 10:36:47 -0600
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <k6apaa$eid$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2803.1351119286.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2807.1351121989.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6apaa$eid$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=fW-evyLpmMJk6yYrFYjU=byhTZNO6-JkOx-0k5yOrkA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 1:21 AM, Thomas Rachel
<nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de>
wrote:
>> j = next(j for j in iter(partial(randrange, n), None) if j not in
>> selected)
>
>
> This generator never ends. If it meets a non-matching value, it just skips
> it and goes on.

next() only returns one value.  After it is returned, the generator is
discarded, whether it has ended or not.  If there were no valid values
for randrange to select, then it would descend into an infinite loop.
But then, so would the dropwhile and the original while loop.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 12:37:13 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 09:37:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
References: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net> <k6bllq$3gt$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2849.1351179123.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<50896152$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<41338e78-a3d9-4ab6-ab53-79ded90411c6@vy11g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2852.1351182588.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <976a7429-eea9-4309-84bb-389bfd54d710@sh1g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 25, 9:30?pm, Chris Angelico <ros... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 3:17 AM, rusi <rustompm... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 25, 8:57 pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
> > +comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
> >> py> min(t.repeat(number=10000, repeat=7))
> >> 0.6819710731506348
> >> py> min(t.repeat(number=100, repeat=7))
> >> 4.141788959503174
>
> >> That makes the "inelegant" solution using bin() and count() about 600
> >> times faster than the mathematically clever solution using bitwise
> >> operations.
>
> > You meant 600% I think?
>
> It took six times longer to do one hundredth the iterations.
>
> ChrisA

Oh! Missed the number=


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Oct 25 12:44:11 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 17:44:11 +0100
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpxgphEXDBgbgDjN+uB2dz5MJ+tv06fniDfsE+UX6p6ww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net> <k6bllq$3gt$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2849.1351179123.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<50896152$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<41338e78-a3d9-4ab6-ab53-79ded90411c6@vy11g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPTjJmpxgphEXDBgbgDjN+uB2dz5MJ+tv06fniDfsE+UX6p6ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k6bq46$gk8$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 25/10/2012 17:29, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 3:17 AM, rusi <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Oct 25, 8:57 pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
>> +comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
>>> py> min(t.repeat(number=10000, repeat=7))
>>> 0.6819710731506348
>>> py> min(t.repeat(number=100, repeat=7))
>>> 4.141788959503174
>>>
>>> That makes the "inelegant" solution using bin() and count() about 600
>>> times faster than the mathematically clever solution using bitwise
>>> operations.
>>
>> You meant 600% I think?
>
> It took six times longer to do one hundredth the iterations.
>
> ChrisA
>

Oh no, not another PEP 393 foul up :)

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 12:44:17 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 10:44:17 -0600
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <k6b257$l8k$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
References: <50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<20121024222656.GA32708@cskk.homeip.net>
	<5088779A.3000202@cs.wisc.edu>
	<mailman.2811.1351140683.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6b257$l8k$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmwDTvKOhH6x=BahB3RRs=JYgAPg8Tv=AHmux_xSiZrkA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 3:52 AM, Thomas Rachel
<nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de>
wrote:
> Am 25.10.2012 06:50 schrieb Terry Reedy:
>
>
>> Keep in mind that any new syntax has to be a substantial improvement in
>> some sense or make something new possible. There was no new syntax in
>> 3.2 and very little in 3.3.
>
>
> I would consinder this at least as new substantial than
>
>     yield_from it
>
> as opposed to
>
>     for i in it: yield i
>
> - although I think that was a good idea as well.

Except that those two are not exactly identical, because "yield from"
also properly delegates sent data and exceptions to the sub-generator.
 The actual equivalent code for "yield from expr()", as given in the
PEP, is 39 lines long.  This is a substantial feature, not just a
little syntactic sugar.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 12:47:40 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 10:47:40 -0600
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid=fW-evyLpmMJk6yYrFYjU=byhTZNO6-JkOx-0k5yOrkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2803.1351119286.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2807.1351121989.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6apaa$eid$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<CALwzid=fW-evyLpmMJk6yYrFYjU=byhTZNO6-JkOx-0k5yOrkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmA307iWEO59kZXv11wHhUUP4Fv-G5FWbE7wah305m7GQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 1:21 AM, Thomas Rachel
> <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de>
> wrote:
>>> j = next(j for j in iter(partial(randrange, n), None) if j not in
>>> selected)
>>
>>
>> This generator never ends. If it meets a non-matching value, it just skips
>> it and goes on.
>
> next() only returns one value.  After it is returned, the generator is
> discarded, whether it has ended or not.  If there were no valid values
> for randrange to select, then it would descend into an infinite loop.
> But then, so would the dropwhile and the original while loop.

To demonstrate that the code does in fact return:

>>> selected = set(range(5))
>>> n = 10
>>> from functools import partial
>>> from random import randrange
>>> j = next(j for j in iter(partial(randrange, n), None) if j not in selected)
>>> j
5


From ppearson at nowhere.invalid  Thu Oct 25 12:55:46 2012
From: ppearson at nowhere.invalid (Peter Pearson)
Date: 25 Oct 2012 16:55:46 GMT
Subject: SSH Connection with Python
References: <mailman.2834.1351161105.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aet98iFpnihU1@mid.individual.net>

On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:16:58 +0200, Schneider <js at globe.de> wrote:
> how can i create a SSH-Connection with python? I have to send some 
> commands to the remote host and parse their answers.
> greatz Johannes

I've been using Twisted (twistedmatrix.com).  It is especially
convenient for the server end.  Its organization is "event-driven",
which you may or may not find convenient.

-- 
To email me, substitute nowhere->spamcop, invalid->net.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct 25 13:16:40 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Oct 2012 17:16:40 GMT
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
References: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net> <k6bllq$3gt$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2849.1351179123.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<50896152$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<41338e78-a3d9-4ab6-ab53-79ded90411c6@vy11g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <508973f8$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 09:17:40 -0700, rusi wrote:

> On Oct 25, 8:57?pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
> +comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 02:31:53 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> > On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 2:25 AM, Christian Heimes
>> > <christ... at python.org> wrote:
>> >> Simple, easy, faster than a Python loop but not very elegant:
>>
>> >> ? ?bin(number).count("1")
>>
>> > Unlikely to be fast.
>>
>> Oh I don't know about that. Here's some timing results using Python
>> 2.7:
>>
>> py> from timeit import Timer
>> py> t = Timer('bin(number).count("1")', setup='number=2**10001-1') 
>> py> min(t.repeat(number=10000, repeat=7)) 
>> 0.6819710731506348
>>
>> Compare to MRAB's suggestion:
>>
>> def count_set_bits(number):
>> ? ? ?count = 0
>> ? ? ?while number:
>> ? ? ? ? ?count += 1
>> ? ? ? ? ?number &= number - 1
>> ? ? ?return count
>>
>> py> t = Timer('count_set_bits(number)', 
>> ... ? ? setup='from __main__ import count_set_bits;
>> ...     number=2**10001-1') 
>> py> min(t.repeat(number=100, repeat=7)) 
>> 4.141788959503174
>>
>> That makes the "inelegant" solution using bin() and count() about 600
>> times faster than the mathematically clever solution using bitwise
>> operations.
> 
> You meant 600% I think?

No, I mean a factor of 600 times faster. Look at the number of iterations 
used in each test: 10000 versus 100.

Using bin() and count() takes 0.6819710731506348/10000 = 6.8e-5 seconds 
on my computer; using MRAB's neat trick takes 4.141788959503174/100 = 
0.041 seconds. 0.041/6.8e-5 is slightly over 600.


-- 
Steven


From auriocus at gmx.de  Thu Oct 25 13:25:38 2012
From: auriocus at gmx.de (Christian Gollwitzer)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 19:25:38 +0200
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2846.1351176984.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2846.1351176984.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k6bsmh$qeg$1@dont-email.me>

Am 25.10.12 16:47, schrieb Charles Hixson:
> In Python3 is there any good way to count the number of on bits in an
> integer (after an & operation)?
> Alternatively, is there any VERY light-weight implementation of a bit
> set?  I'd prefer to use integers, as I'm probably going to need
> thousands of these, if the tests work out.  But before I can test, I
> need a decent bit counter.  (shift, xor, &, and | are already present
> for integer values, but I also need to count the number of "true" items
> after the logical operation.  So if a bitset is the correct approach,
> I'll need it to implement those operations, or their equivalents in
> terms of union and intersection.)
>
> Or do I need to drop into C for this?
>

There is a very geeky algorithm with only a few integer operations.

Checkout
http://graphics.stanford.edu/~seander/bithacks.html#CountBitsSet64

for a C version. Maybe the same thing is equally fast when ported to 
Python.

	Christian


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 14:19:28 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:19:28 -0600
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
In-Reply-To: <k6bsmh$qeg$1@dont-email.me>
References: <mailman.2846.1351176984.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6bsmh$qeg$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmdpfzgB_E=rXC80z2C510DVkFDOAwyHyksQWr_KiiCSw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:25 AM, Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus at gmx.de> wrote:
> There is a very geeky algorithm with only a few integer operations.
>
> Checkout
> http://graphics.stanford.edu/~seander/bithacks.html#CountBitsSet64
>
> for a C version. Maybe the same thing is equally fast when ported to Python.

It does seem to be about five times faster than the loop, but still
only half as fast as the string-counting approach.  I'm using a 64-bit
CPU but only a 32-bit OS, but it probably doesn't make much difference
anyway for Python, which is going to do the computations with Python
longs rather than with 64-bit C integers.

Also, this approach is a bit limited in that it only works for 32-bit
ints, so you can't pass it an aribtrary precision int and expect
correct results.

By the way, I expect the reason that Steve saw a 600x difference and
I'm only getting a 10x difference is because he was testing 10000-bit
ints with expensive "long" operations, whereas I'm using 32-bit ints
that aren't too far removed from the C level.


>>> from timeit import Timer
>>> t = Timer("bin(number).count('1')", setup="number=2**31-1")
>>> min(t.repeat(number=1000000, repeat=7))
0.6388884620810749
>>> def count_set_bits(number):
...   count = 0
...   while number:
...     count += 1
...     number &= number - 1
...   return count
...
>>> t = Timer("count_set_bits(number)", setup="from __main__ import count_set_bi
ts; number = 2 ** 31-1")
>>> min(t.repeat(number=100000, repeat=7))
0.5898140685478239
>>> def count_set_bits_geeky(number):
...     c = ((number & 0xfff) * 0x1001001001001 & 0x84210842108421) % 0x1f
...     c += (((number & 0xfff000) >> 12) * 0x1001001001001 & 0x84210842108421)
% 0x1f
...     c += ((number >> 24) * 0x1001001001001 & 0x84210842108421) % 0x1f
...     return c
...
>>> t = Timer("count_set_bits_geeky(number)", setup="from __main__ import count_
set_bits_geeky; number = 2 ** 31-1")
>>> min(t.repeat(number=100000, repeat=7))
0.1247119396459766


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Thu Oct 25 15:06:54 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 19:06:54 +0000
Subject: Appending a list using list obtained from a class
In-Reply-To: <65ED09AC-A4A5-4502-BF39-F665F25F96A8@gmail.com>
References: <CAFqGZRGcM+kuW3zf85mcBfvBG=FBd2CCm5o-zBu9mVYp-ehkvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1BA49B0B-47E0-4683-9A49-FC2DFCC5C7C2@gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRHxfmmWXjBxU2YixaJN6PQhqgMrqc5k-m-ujV_Mxn_2=g@mail.gmail.com>
	<E6ED38F6-63F9-4330-A5D5-EB5656D8D6FB@gmail.com>
	<CAFqGZRFHdsJ6w2kKaS_6xyKL0ddCYJbsjm1kjTghx0ukQH-hVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<65ED09AC-A4A5-4502-BF39-F665F25F96A8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741672F703@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Demian Brecht wrote:
> On 2012-10-24, at 8:00 AM, inshu chauhan <insideshoes at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Yes, a Class method returns a list. I am trying to append this in main() to make another list.
> > But the list i am getting after appending i showing addresses like this '<__main__.Point object at
> 0x0254FAB0>' but if i print the same in the same loop its showing me numbers which i want. Why I dont know ??
> 
> If you can, please post the relevant blocks of code. That'll be a tremendous help in figuring out your problem.
> 

I would like to re-iterate that posting the relevant code is very
helpful and the best way for us to help you. Everything below is an
educated guess based on the information you provided.


Based on the text '<__main__.Point object at 0x0254FAB0>', it seems
like the object being returned is most likely NOT a list but instead a 
Point class that is iterable. Either that or it is a list of Point 
objects. To find out exactly, try something like this:

lst = # whatever your class is returning.
print 'LIST - type : ', type(lst) '\trepr: ', repr(lst), '\tstr :', str(lst)
for p in lst[-1:]:
    print 'POINT - type: ', type(p) '\trepr: ', repr(p), '\tstr :', str(p)

My suspicion is that when you print the list containing
points/addresses it prints the repr version. When you print the 
points/addresses themselves it prints the str version.

>>> class t(object):
...     def __str__(self):
...         return 'str'
...     def __repr__(self):
...         return 'repr'
...     
>>> a = t()
>>> print [a] 
[repr]
>>> print a
str
>>> print a.__class__.__base__.__repr__(a)
<__pieshell__.t object at 0x11B28F10>

Hope that helps you to understand what is going on.

Ramit Prasad

P.S. Usually it is best to specify, Python version, OS version,
expected input/output, and the smallest code sample you can provide
that shows the problem (that any reader of your message can run).
This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From storchaka at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 15:07:45 2012
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 22:07:45 +0300
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
In-Reply-To: <50896152$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net> <k6bllq$3gt$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2849.1351179123.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<50896152$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <k6c2m8$ts$1@ger.gmane.org>

Chris Angelico's suggestion:

 >>> bitcount = bytes(bin(i).count("1") for i in range(256))
 >>> t = Timer('sum(number.to_bytes((number.bit_length() + 7) // 8,'
... '"little").translate(bitcount))',
... setup='from __main__ import bitcount; number=2**10001-1')
 >>> min(t.repeat(number=10000, repeat=7))




From neilc at norwich.edu  Thu Oct 25 16:00:25 2012
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 25 Oct 2012 20:00:25 GMT
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
References: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net> <k6bllq$3gt$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2849.1351179123.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<50896152$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <aetk2pFsd2rU3@mid.individual.net>

On 2012-10-25, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 02:31:53 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 2:25 AM, Christian Heimes
>> <christian at python.org>
>> wrote:
>>> Simple, easy, faster than a Python loop but not very elegant:
>>>
>>>    bin(number).count("1")
>> 
>> Unlikely to be fast.
>
> Oh I don't know about that.

Yes indeed! Python string operations are fast enough and its
arithmetic slow enough that I no longer assume I can beat a neat
lexicographical solution. Try defeating the following with
arithmetic:

def is_palindrom(n):
   s = str(n)
   return s = s[::-1]

> Here's some timing results using Python 2.7:

Excellent work.

You can of course drop to C for arithmetic and likely triumph
over Python strings. That's never been applicable for me, though.

-- 
Neil Cerutti


From neilc at norwich.edu  Thu Oct 25 16:04:21 2012
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 25 Oct 2012 20:04:21 GMT
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
References: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net> <k6bllq$3gt$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2849.1351179123.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<50896152$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<aetk2pFsd2rU3@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <aetka5Fsd2rU4@mid.individual.net>

On 2012-10-25, Neil Cerutti <neilc at norwich.edu> wrote:
> Try defeating the following with arithmetic:
>
> def is_palindrom(n):
>    s = str(n)
>    return s = s[::-1]

Sorry for the typos. It should've been:

def is_palindrome(n):
   s = str(n)
   return s == s[::-1]

-- 
Neil Cerutti


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Oct 25 16:09:20 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 16:09:20 -0400
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <5089198d$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<20121024222656.GA32708@cskk.homeip.net>
	<5088779A.3000202@cs.wisc.edu>
	<mailman.2811.1351140683.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6b257$l8k$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<5089198d$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <k6c69l$1qc$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/25/2012 6:50 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:52:31 +0200, Thomas Rachel wrote:
>
>> Am 25.10.2012 06:50 schrieb Terry Reedy:
>>
>>> Keep in mind that any new syntax has to be a substantial improvement in
>>> some sense or make something new possible. There was no new syntax in
>>> 3.2 and very little in 3.3.
>>
>> I would consinder this at least as new substantial than
>>
>>       yield_from it
>>
>> as opposed to
>>
>>       for i in it: yield i
>>
>> - although I think that was a good idea as well.
>
> Then I think you have misunderstood the purpose of "yield from". The fact
> that you can replace the two lines:
>
> for value in another_iterator:
>      yield iterator
>
> with a one-liner "yield from another_iterator" is the least important use-
> case for yield-from. If that was the only use-case, it probably would not
> have been allowed, because it adds complication to the language for a
> trivial gain.
>
> The purpose of yield-from is to transfer control to another coroutine,
> not to save one trivial line of code.
>
> [quote]
> However, if the subgenerator is to interact properly with the caller in
> the case of calls to send(), throw() and close(), things become
> considerably more difficult. As will be seen later, the necessary code is
> very complicated, and it is tricky to handle all the corner cases
> correctly.
>
> A new syntax will be proposed to address this issue. In the simplest use
> cases, it will be equivalent to the above for-loop, but it will also
> handle the full range of generator behaviour, and allow generator code to
> be refactored in a simple and straightforward way.
> [end quote]
>
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0380/
>
>
> "yield from" is a *huge* win in terms of correctness and power, not just
> a trivial saving in lines of code. "while expr as var" is not.

r = yield from g

is equivalent to about 40 lines of code as given here
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0380/#formal-semantics

It took the developers several tries to first get a version that worked 
and then to work out the exact details.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Oct 25 16:16:10 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 16:16:10 -0400
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
In-Reply-To: <a4a3d0f1-b5d8-4f76-a7b7-bda8936761ae@i7g2000pbf.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.2846.1351176984.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<a4a3d0f1-b5d8-4f76-a7b7-bda8936761ae@i7g2000pbf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k6c6me$5h7$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/25/2012 12:13 PM, rusi wrote:
> On Oct 25, 7:56 pm, Charles Hixson <charleshi... at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> In Python3 is there any good way to count the number of on bits in an
>> integer (after an & operation)?
>> Alternatively, is there any VERY light-weight implementation of a bit
>> set?  I'd prefer to use integers, as I'm probably going to need
>> thousands of these, if the tests work out.  But before I can test, I
>> need a decent bit counter.  (shift, xor, &, and | are already present
>> for integer values, but I also need to count the number of "true" items
>> after the logical operation.  So if a bitset is the correct approach,
>> I'll need it to implement those operations, or their equivalents in
>> terms of union and intersection.)
>>
>> Or do I need to drop into C for this?

If I wanted 1000s of fast limited-length bitsets, I would consider using 
Cython to make an extension class.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 16:20:00 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:20:00 -0600
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
In-Reply-To: <aetk2pFsd2rU3@mid.individual.net>
References: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net> <k6bllq$3gt$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2849.1351179123.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<50896152$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<aetk2pFsd2rU3@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzidn5KG1+B+oh3mQac6Cv02VbyQ0SiN8UEORP=DLLcD_RtA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 2:00 PM, Neil Cerutti <neilc at norwich.edu> wrote:
> Yes indeed! Python string operations are fast enough and its
> arithmetic slow enough that I no longer assume I can beat a neat
> lexicographical solution. Try defeating the following with
> arithmetic:
>
> def is_palindrom(n):
>    s = str(n)
>    return s = s[::-1]

Problems like these are fundamentally string problems, not math
problems.  The question being asked isn't about some essential
property of the number,  but about its digital representation.
Certainly they can be reasoned about mathematically, but the fact
remains that the math being done is about the properties of strings.


From nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de  Thu Oct 25 16:49:16 2012
From: nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de (Thomas Rachel)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 22:49:16 +0200
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2854.1351183039.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2803.1351119286.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2807.1351121989.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6apaa$eid$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<mailman.2854.1351183039.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k6c8kh$lqj$1@r03.glglgl.gl>

Am 25.10.2012 18:36 schrieb Ian Kelly:
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 1:21 AM, Thomas Rachel
> <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de>
> wrote:
>>> j = next(j for j in iter(partial(randrange, n), None) if j not in
>>> selected)
>>
>>
>> This generator never ends. If it meets a non-matching value, it just skips
>> it and goes on.
>
> next() only returns one value.  After it is returned, the generator is
> discarded, whether it has ended or not.  If there were no valid values
> for randrange to select, then it would descend into an infinite loop.
> But then, so would the dropwhile and the original while loop.

You are completely right. My solution was right as well, but didn't 
match the problem...

Yours does indeed return one random value which is guaranteed not to be 
in selected.

Mine returns random values until the value is not in selected. I just 
misread the intention behind the while loop...


Thomas


From rivkaumiller at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 16:53:33 2012
From: rivkaumiller at gmail.com (Rivka Miller)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 13:53:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Quickie - Regexp for a string not at the beginning of the line
Message-ID: <9eba5652-f814-41fa-83e4-460bca2be264@n16g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Hello Programmers,

I am looking for a regexp for a string not at the beginning of the
line.

For example, I want to find $hello$ that does not occur at the
beginning of the string, ie all $hello$ that exclude ^$hello$.

In addition, if you have a more difficult problem along the same
lines, I would appreciate it. For a single character, eg < not at the
beginning of the line, it is easier, ie

^[^<]+<

but I cant use the same method for more than one character string as
permutation is present and probably for more than one occurrence,
greedy or non-greedy version of [^<]+ would pick first or last but not
the middle ones, unless I break the line as I go and use the non-
greedy version of +. I do have the non-greedy version available, but
what if I didnt?

If you cannot solve the problem completely, just give me a quick
solution with the first non beginning of the line and I will go from
there as I need it in a hurry.

Thanks




From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Thu Oct 25 16:59:14 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 20:59:14 +0000
Subject: resume execution after catching with an excepthook?
In-Reply-To: <CAF_E5JYrtsbAzwNcqV0LfFzd82DBZw9oqytNeGxoY8gs-vPLJA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2758.1351083094.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5088929e$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAF_E5JYrtsbAzwNcqV0LfFzd82DBZw9oqytNeGxoY8gs-vPLJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741672F99A@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

andrea crotti wrote:
> 2012/10/25 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info>:
> > On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 13:51:30 +0100, andrea crotti wrote:
> >
[snip]
> > Without a try...except block, execution will cease after an exception is
> > caught, even when using sys.excepthook. I don't believe that there is any
> > way to jump back to the line of code that just failed (and why would you,
> > it will just fail again) or the next line (which will likely fail because
> > the previous line failed).
> >
> > I think the only way you can do this is to write your own execution loop:
> >
> > while True:
> >     try:
> >         run(next_command())
> >     except KeyboardInterrupt:
> >         if confirm_quit():
> >             break
> >
> >
> > Of course you need to make run() atomic, or use transactions that can be
> > reverted or backed out of. How plausible this is depends on what you are
> > trying to do -- Python's Ctrl-C is not really designed to be ignored.
> >
> > Perhaps a better approach would be to treat Ctrl-C as an unconditional
> > exit, and periodically poll the keyboard for another key press to use as
> > a conditional exit. Here's a snippet of platform-specific code to get a
> > key press:
> >
> > http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577977
> >
> > Note however that it blocks if there is no key press waiting.
> >
> > I suspect that you may need a proper event loop, as provided by GUI
> > frameworks, or curses.
> >
> 
> Ok thanks, but here the point is not to resume something that is going
> to fail again, just to avoid accidental kill of processes that take a
> long time.  Probably needed only by me in debugging mode, but anyway I
> can do the simple try/except then, thanks..

On the other hand, if you store state externally (pickle?) maybe 
you can just restart at the last "check point". That way even if
the program dies you can recover on the next run.

Ramit Prasad


This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
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confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
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From janis_papanagnou at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 25 17:01:47 2012
From: janis_papanagnou at hotmail.com (Janis Papanagnou)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 23:01:47 +0200
Subject: Quickie - Regexp for a string not at the beginning of the line
In-Reply-To: <9eba5652-f814-41fa-83e4-460bca2be264@n16g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <9eba5652-f814-41fa-83e4-460bca2be264@n16g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k6c9bj$bk9$1@news.m-online.net>

On 25.10.2012 22:53, Rivka Miller wrote:
> Hello Programmers,
> 
> I am looking for a regexp for a string not at the beginning of the
> line.
> 
> For example, I want to find $hello$ that does not occur at the
> beginning of the string, ie all $hello$ that exclude ^$hello$.

   .hello

The dot represents any character. But for specific strings that
needs adjustments (e.g. looking for hh not at the beginning of a
line would require something like ^[^h]+hh - ah, well, you wrote
something similar below).

Janis

> 
> In addition, if you have a more difficult problem along the same
> lines, I would appreciate it. For a single character, eg < not at the
> beginning of the line, it is easier, ie
> 
> ^[^<]+<
> 
> but I cant use the same method for more than one character string as
> permutation is present and probably for more than one occurrence,
> greedy or non-greedy version of [^<]+ would pick first or last but not
> the middle ones, unless I break the line as I go and use the non-
> greedy version of +. I do have the non-greedy version available, but
> what if I didnt?
> 
> If you cannot solve the problem completely, just give me a quick
> solution with the first non beginning of the line and I will go from
> there as I need it in a hurry.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Thu Oct 25 17:14:23 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 21:14:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to set 250000 baud rate in pyserial ?
References: <d5871091-63c8-4582-9485-138195cf6d36@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2858.1351188682.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k6ca3f$n17$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-25, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 04:09:56 -0700 (PDT), kurabas at gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I use Arduino 1280 and Arduino 2560 under Fedora 15.  1280 creates
>> ttyUSB0 port and can be set at 2500000 successfully. 2560 creates
>> ttyACM0 port and can be only set at speeds from list (no 250000) in
>> pyserial. How to set 250000 to ttyACM0 port?? Need I patch kernel or
>> python?
>
> You don't say what error you are receiving but looking at the source
> (serialposix.py) implies that it accepts nearly anything on Linux, and
> relies on the OS returning a success/failure if the value is allowed or
> not. 

1) Are you sure it matters?  I've never played with an Arduino board,
   but other stuff I've used that implements a "virtual serial port"
   using a ttyUSB or ttyACM device (e.g. oscilloscope, various Atmel
   eval boards, JTAG interfaces, etc.) didn't have actual UARTs in
   them with real baud rate generators.  You got the same high-speed
   transfers no matter what baud rate you told the tty driver.

2) If you want a non-standard baud rate, there is a termios2 API on
   Linux that allows that (assuming the low-level driver and hardwdare
   support it).  The last time I looked, it wasn't supported by
   pyserial, but you can ask pyserial for the underlying file
   descriptor and do the ioctl manually.  The slightly ugly bit is
   that you'll have to use struct (or maybe ctypes) to handle the
   termios2 "C" structure.

   The behavior of baud rate requests that can't be met exactly is
   probably not very consistent.  IIRC, the recommended approach is
   for the low level driver to pick the closest supported baud, and
   then report the actual baud rate back when you subsequently read
   the termios2 structure. However, I do know of some devices that
   will always report the requested baud rate even if the physical
   baud rate that was selected wasn't exactly the same as the request
   rate.

Here's how you set an arbitrary baud rate in C:
   
-------------------------arbitrary-baud.c--------------------------
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <stdio.h>
#include <fcntl.h>
#include <errno.h>
#include <string.h>
#include <linux/termios.h>

int ioctl(int d, int request, ...);

int main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
  struct termios2 t;
  int fd,baud;

  if (argc != 3)
    {
      fprintf(stderr,"usage: %s <device> <baud>\n", argv[0]);
      return 1;
    }

  fd = open(argv[1], O_RDWR | O_NOCTTY | O_NDELAY);

  if (fd == -1)
      {
        fprintf(stderr, "error opening %s: %s", argv[1], strerror(errno));
        return 2;
      }

  baud = atoi(argv[2]);

  if (ioctl(fd, TCGETS2, &t))
    {
      perror("TCGETS2");
      return 3;
    }

  t.c_cflag &= ~CBAUD;
  t.c_cflag |= BOTHER;
  t.c_ispeed = baud;
  t.c_ospeed = baud;

  if (ioctl(fd, TCSETS2, &t))
    {
      perror("TCSETS2");
      return 4;
    }

  if (ioctl(fd, TCGETS2, &t))
    {
      perror("TCGETS2");
      return 5;
    }

  printf("actual speed reported %d\n", t.c_ospeed);
  return 0;
}

--------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards
                                  at       
                              gmail.com    


From schesis at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 17:21:32 2012
From: schesis at gmail.com (Zero Piraeus)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 17:21:32 -0400
Subject: Quickie - Regexp for a string not at the beginning of the line
In-Reply-To: <9eba5652-f814-41fa-83e4-460bca2be264@n16g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <9eba5652-f814-41fa-83e4-460bca2be264@n16g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CANaSqUf=93_AEY7sGkswXrzZbtoOG9anqKKsFGROsH8Wi7qsig@mail.gmail.com>

:

On 25 October 2012 16:53, Rivka Miller <rivkaumiller at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am looking for a regexp for a string not at the beginning of the
> line.

There are probably quite a few ways to do this, but '(?<!^)PATTERN'
has the advantage of explicitly describing what you're trying to do.
For instance:

>>> pattern = re.compile(r"(?<!^)\b\w+\b")
>>> re.findall(pattern, "this is some text")
['is', 'some', 'text']

 -[]z.


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Thu Oct 25 17:27:16 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 21:27:16 +0000
Subject: turn list of letters into an array of integers
In-Reply-To: <CA+vVgJXYET2xDT-zkkK1qj-qBsJDq56=K7jHzmhfr1Cb4-p29w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <07073002-d79f-46f6-83fc-8d20c51b39c3@googlegroups.com>
	<CA+vVgJXYET2xDT-zkkK1qj-qBsJDq56=K7jHzmhfr1Cb4-p29w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741672FAED@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

David Hutto wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 1:23 AM, seektime <michael.j.krause at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Here's some example code. The input is a list which is a "matrix" of letters:
> >    a  b  a
> >    b  b  a
> >
> > and I'd like to turn this into a Python array:
> >
> >   1 2 1
> >   2 2 1
> >
> > so 1 replaces a, and 2 replaces b. Here's the code I have so far:
> >
> >>>> L=['a b a\n','b b a\n']
> >>>> s=' '.join(L)
> >>>> seq1=('a','b')
> >>>> seq2=('1','2')
> >>>> d = dict(zip(seq1,seq2))
> >>>> # Define method to replace letters according to dictionary (got this from
> http://gommeitputor.wordpress.com/2008/09/27/search-replace-multiple-words-or-characters-with-python/).
> > ... def replace_all(text, dic):
> > ...     for i, j in dic.iteritems():
> > ...         text = text.replace(i, j)
> > ...     return text
> > ...
> >
> >>>> seq = replace_all(s,d)
> >>>> print seq
> > 1 2 1
> >  2 2 1
> >
> >>>> seq
> > '1 2 1\n 2 2 1\n'
> >
> I'd suggest, if this is what you're referring to:
> 
> x = seq.split('\n  ')
> array_list = [ ]
> next_3_d_array = []
> range_of_seq = len(seq)
> for num in range(0,range_of_seq):
>        if num % 3 != 0:
>                next_3_d_array.append(num)
>        if num % 3 == 0:
>                    array_list.append(next_3_d_array)
>                    next_3_d_array = [ ]
> 

Wow, that looks complicated. Why hardcode to 3 instead of where ever
the newline is?

>>> [ int(x.strip()) for subseq in seq.split('\n') for x in subseq.split() ]
[1, 2, 1, 2, 2, 1]
>>> lst = []
# OR
>>> for subseq in seq.split('\n'):
...     for x in subseq.split():
...         lst.append( int(x.strip()))
...     
>>>

Ramit Prasad


This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Oct 25 17:51:38 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 22:51:38 +0100
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
In-Reply-To: <50896407.8070706@earthlink.net>
References: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net> <k6bllq$3gt$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2849.1351179123.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<50896152$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<50896407.8070706@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <k6cc2q$kq0$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 25/10/2012 17:08, Charles Hixson wrote:
> On 10/25/2012 08:57 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 02:31:53 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 2:25 AM, Christian Heimes<christian at python.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Simple, easy, faster than a Python loop but not very elegant:
>>>>
>>>>     bin(number).count("1")
>>> Unlikely to be fast.
>> Oh I don't know about that. Here's some timing results using Python 2.7:
>>
>> py>  from timeit import Timer
>> py>  t = Timer('bin(number).count("1")', setup='number=2**10001-1')
>> py>  min(t.repeat(number=10000, repeat=7))
>> 0.6819710731506348
>>
>> Compare to MRAB's suggestion:
>>
>> def count_set_bits(number):
>>       count = 0
>>       while number:
>>           count += 1
>>           number&= number - 1
>>       return count
>>
>> py>  t = Timer('count_set_bits(number)',
>> ...     setup='from __main__ import count_set_bits; number=2**10001-1')
>> py>  min(t.repeat(number=100, repeat=7))
>> 4.141788959503174
>>
>>
>> That makes the "inelegant" solution using bin() and count() about 600
>> times faster than the mathematically clever solution using bitwise
>> operations.
>>
>> On the other hand, I'm guessing that PyPy would speed up MRAB's version
>> significantly.
>>
>>
>>
> Really nice and good to know.  I had guessed the other way.   (As you
> point out this is compiler dependent, and I'll be using Python3,
> but...conversion from an int to a bit string must be a *lot* faster than
> I had thought.)
>

The simple rule for Python performance is never guess anything as you'll 
invariably be wrong, time it and/or profile it, then change your code if 
and only if you have to.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From ppearson at nowhere.invalid  Thu Oct 25 19:08:27 2012
From: ppearson at nowhere.invalid (Peter Pearson)
Date: 25 Oct 2012 23:08:27 GMT
Subject: SSH Connection with Python - Oops
References: <mailman.2834.1351161105.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<aet98iFpnihU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <aetv3bFh28U1@mid.individual.net>

On 25 Oct 2012 16:55:46 GMT, Peter Pearson <ppearson at nowhere.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:16:58 +0200, Schneider <js at globe.de> wrote:
>> how can i create a SSH-Connection with python? I have to send some 
>> commands to the remote host and parse their answers.
>> greatz Johannes
>
> I've been using Twisted (twistedmatrix.com).  It is especially
> convenient for the server end.  Its organization is "event-driven",
> which you may or may not find convenient.

Oops!  The question was about SSH, and I was blathering about SSL.
Sorry.

-- 
To email me, substitute nowhere->spamcop, invalid->net.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct 25 19:48:35 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Oct 2012 23:48:35 GMT
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
References: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net> <k6bllq$3gt$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2849.1351179123.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<50896152$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<aetk2pFsd2rU3@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.2864.1351196432.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5089cfd2$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:20:00 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 2:00 PM, Neil Cerutti <neilc at norwich.edu> wrote:
>> Yes indeed! Python string operations are fast enough and its arithmetic
>> slow enough that I no longer assume I can beat a neat lexicographical
>> solution. Try defeating the following with arithmetic:
>>
>> def is_palindrom(n):
>>    s = str(n)
>>    return s = s[::-1]
> 
> Problems like these are fundamentally string problems, not math
> problems.  The question being asked isn't about some essential property
> of the number,  but about its digital representation.

Speaking as somebody who sometimes pretends to be a mathematician, I 
think you are wrong there. The property of being a palindrome may have 
been invented in reference to strings, but it is also a mathematical 
property of a number. Properties of the digits of numbers are properties 
of the relationship between the number and some sequence of divisors (the 
powers of some base), which makes them numeric properties.

It's interesting to consider properties of numbers which hold for *every* 
base. For example, I understand that the digits of pi are uniformly 
distributed regardless of which base you use.

Certainly mathematicians frequently ask questions about the digits of 
numbers, generally in base ten but also in other bases. Since the digits 
of a number are based on the numeric properties of the number, they 
certainly are essential to the number (modulo some base).

For example, apart from two itself[1], every prime number ends in a 1 bit 
in base two. In decimal, every factorial greater than 4! ends with a 
zero. A number is divisible by 9 if the sum of the (decimal) digits 
reduces to 9. A number is divisible by 5 if the last digit is 0 or 5. 
These are not accidents, they depend on the numeric properties.


> Certainly they can
> be reasoned about mathematically, but the fact remains that the math
> being done is about the properties of strings.

Strings of digits, which are numerically equal to the remainders when you 
divide the number by successively larger powers of some base.:

123 = 1*10**2 + 2*10**1 + 3*10**0

Hence, mathematical.

Of course, none of this challenges the fact that, at least in Python, 
reasoning about digits is often best done on the string representation 
rather than the number itself.



[1] Which makes 2 the oddest prime of all.


-- 
Steven


From rivkaumiller at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 21:08:53 2012
From: rivkaumiller at gmail.com (Rivka Miller)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 18:08:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Quickie - Regexp for a string not at the beginning of the line
References: <9eba5652-f814-41fa-83e4-460bca2be264@n16g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<e6f60702-d85f-4aed-bc03-3147bb007ad8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <73f60cf3-d932-4366-a405-6767488560c6@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 25, 2:27?pm, Danny <dann90... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Why you just don't give us the string/input, say a line or two, and what you want off of it, so we can tell better what to suggest

no one has really helped yet.

I want to search and modify.

I dont wanna be tied to a specific language etc so I just want a
regexp and as many versions as possible. Maybe I should try in emacs
and so I am now posting to emacs groups also, although javascript has
rich set of regexp facilities.

examples

$hello$ should not be selected but
not hello but all of the $hello$ and $hello$ ... $hello$ each one
selected

=================
original post
=================


Hello Programmers,

I am looking for a regexp for a string not at the beginning of the
line.

For example, I want to find $hello$ that does not occur at the
beginning of the string, ie all $hello$ that exclude ^$hello$.

In addition, if you have a more difficult problem along the same
lines, I would appreciate it. For a single character, eg < not at the
beginning of the line, it is easier, ie

^[^<]+<

but I cant use the same method for more than one character string as
permutation is present and probably for more than one occurrence,
greedy or non-greedy version of [^<]+ would pick first or last but not
the middle ones, unless I break the line as I go and use the non-
greedy version of +. I do have the non-greedy version available, but
what if I didnt?

If you cannot solve the problem completely, just give me a quick
solution with the first non beginning of the line and I will go from
there as I need it in a hurry.

Thanks



From d at davea.name  Thu Oct 25 21:21:57 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 21:21:57 -0400
Subject: Quickie - Regexp for a string not at the beginning of the line
In-Reply-To: <73f60cf3-d932-4366-a405-6767488560c6@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <9eba5652-f814-41fa-83e4-460bca2be264@n16g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<e6f60702-d85f-4aed-bc03-3147bb007ad8@googlegroups.com>
	<73f60cf3-d932-4366-a405-6767488560c6@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5089E5B5.9090500@davea.name>

On 10/25/2012 09:08 PM, Rivka Miller wrote:
> On Oct 25, 2:27 pm, Danny <dann90... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Why you just don't give us the string/input, say a line or two, and what you want off of it, so we can tell better what to suggest
> no one has really helped yet.
>
> <SNIP>
>
> first non beginning of the line and I will go from
> there as I need it in a hurry.
>
>

Call a tow truck and tell him to jump your spare tire from his left turn
signal.  That'll be about as effective.  But crying wolf to several
towns at once is probably a mistake.

-- 

DaveA



From mamboknave at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 21:46:20 2012
From: mamboknave at gmail.com (mamboknave at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 18:46:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
Message-ID: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>

>>> a = [float('nan'), 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
>>> a
[nan, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
>>> a.index(float('nan'))
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ValueError: list.index(x): x not in list

That means, the function .index() cannot detect nan values.
It happens on both Python 2.6 and Python 3.1

Is this a bug? Or I am not using .index() correctly?

Thanks!


From mortonspam at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 22:00:32 2012
From: mortonspam at gmail.com (Ed Morton)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 21:00:32 -0500
Subject: Quickie - Regexp for a string not at the beginning of the line
In-Reply-To: <73f60cf3-d932-4366-a405-6767488560c6@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <9eba5652-f814-41fa-83e4-460bca2be264@n16g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<e6f60702-d85f-4aed-bc03-3147bb007ad8@googlegroups.com>
	<73f60cf3-d932-4366-a405-6767488560c6@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k6cqs1$efg$1@dont-email.me>

On 10/25/2012 8:08 PM, Rivka Miller wrote:
> On Oct 25, 2:27 pm, Danny <dann90... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Why you just don't give us the string/input, say a line or two, and what you want off of it, so we can tell better what to suggest
>
> no one has really helped yet.

Because there is no solution - there IS no _RE_ that will match a string not at 
the beginning of a line.

Now if you want to know how to extract a string that matches an RE in awk, 
that'd be (just one way):

    awk 'match($0,/.[$]hello[$]/) { print substr($0,RSTART+1,RLENGTH-1) }'

and other tools would have their ways of producing the same output, but that's 
not the question you're asking.

     Ed.
>
> I want to search and modify.
>
> I dont wanna be tied to a specific language etc so I just want a
> regexp and as many versions as possible. Maybe I should try in emacs
> and so I am now posting to emacs groups also, although javascript has
> rich set of regexp facilities.
>
> examples
>
> $hello$ should not be selected but
> not hello but all of the $hello$ and $hello$ ... $hello$ each one
> selected
>
> =================
> original post
> =================
>
>
> Hello Programmers,
>
> I am looking for a regexp for a string not at the beginning of the
> line.
>
> For example, I want to find $hello$ that does not occur at the
> beginning of the string, ie all $hello$ that exclude ^$hello$.
>
> In addition, if you have a more difficult problem along the same
> lines, I would appreciate it. For a single character, eg < not at the
> beginning of the line, it is easier, ie
>
> ^[^<]+<
>
> but I cant use the same method for more than one character string as
> permutation is present and probably for more than one occurrence,
> greedy or non-greedy version of [^<]+ would pick first or last but not
> the middle ones, unless I break the line as I go and use the non-
> greedy version of +. I do have the non-greedy version available, but
> what if I didnt?
>
> If you cannot solve the problem completely, just give me a quick
> solution with the first non beginning of the line and I will go from
> there as I need it in a hurry.
>
> Thanks
>



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Oct 25 22:04:52 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 22:04:52 -0400
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
In-Reply-To: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k6cr4c$4md$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/25/2012 9:46 PM, mamboknave at gmail.com wrote:
>>>> a = [float('nan'), 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
>>>> a
> [nan, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
>>>> a.index(float('nan'))
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ValueError: list.index(x): x not in list
>
> That means, the function .index() cannot detect nan values.
> It happens on both Python 2.6 and Python 3.1
>
> Is this a bug? Or I am not using .index() correctly?

It is a consequence of the following, which some people (but not all) 
believe is mandated by the IEEE standard.

 >>> nan = float('nan')
 >>> nan is nan
True
 >>> nan == nan
False

 >>> nanlist = [nan]
 >>> nan in nanlist
True
 >>> nanlist.index(nan)
0

Containment of nan in collection is tested by is, not ==.

 >>> nan2 = float('nan')
 >>> nan2 is nan
False
 >>> nan2 == nan
False
 >>> nan2 in nanlist
False

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk  Thu Oct 25 22:11:10 2012
From: ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk (Ben Bacarisse)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 03:11:10 +0100
Subject: Quickie - Regexp for a string not at the beginning of the line
References: <9eba5652-f814-41fa-83e4-460bca2be264@n16g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<e6f60702-d85f-4aed-bc03-3147bb007ad8@googlegroups.com>
	<73f60cf3-d932-4366-a405-6767488560c6@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0.485c579271f72431d3a7.20121026031110BST.87k3ue7zk1.fsf@bsb.me.uk>

Rivka Miller <rivkaumiller at gmail.com> writes:

> On Oct 25, 2:27?pm, Danny <dann90... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Why you just don't give us the string/input, say a line or two, and
>> what you want off of it, so we can tell better what to suggest
>
> no one has really helped yet.

Really?  I was going to reply but then I saw Janis had given you the
answer.  If it's not the answer, you should just reply saying what it is
that's wrong with it.

> I want to search and modify.

Ah.  That was missing from the original post.  You can't expect people
to help with questions that weren't asked!  To replace you will usually
have to capture the single preceding character.  E.g. in sed:

  sed -e 's/\(.\)$hello\$/\1XXX/'

but some RE engines (Perl's, for example) allow you specify zero-width
assertions.  You could, in Perl, write

  s/(?<=.)\$hello\$/XXX/

without having to capture whatever preceded the target string.  But
since Perl also has negative zero-width look-behind you can code your
request even more directly:

  s/(?<!^)\$hello\$/XXX/

> I dont wanna be tied to a specific language etc so I just want a
> regexp and as many versions as possible. Maybe I should try in emacs
> and so I am now posting to emacs groups also, although javascript has
> rich set of regexp facilities.

You can't always have a universal solution because different PE
implementations have different syntax and semantics, but you should be
able to translate Janis's solution of matching *something* before your
target into every RE implementation around.

> examples
>
> $hello$ should not be selected but
> not hello but all of the $hello$ and $hello$ ... $hello$ each one
> selected

I have taken your $s to be literal.  That's not 100 obvious since $ is a
common (universal?) RE meta-character.

<snip>
-- 
Ben.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Oct 25 22:11:48 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 03:11:48 +0100
Subject: Quickie - Regexp for a string not at the beginning of the line
In-Reply-To: <73f60cf3-d932-4366-a405-6767488560c6@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <9eba5652-f814-41fa-83e4-460bca2be264@n16g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<e6f60702-d85f-4aed-bc03-3147bb007ad8@googlegroups.com>
	<73f60cf3-d932-4366-a405-6767488560c6@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5089F164.2050808@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-26 02:08, Rivka Miller wrote:
> On Oct 25, 2:27 pm, Danny <dann90... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Why you just don't give us the string/input, say a line or two, and what you want off of it, so we can tell better what to suggest
>
> no one has really helped yet.
>
> I want to search and modify.
>
> I dont wanna be tied to a specific language etc so I just want a
> regexp and as many versions as possible. Maybe I should try in emacs
> and so I am now posting to emacs groups also, although javascript has
> rich set of regexp facilities.
>
> examples
>
> $hello$ should not be selected but
> not hello but all of the $hello$ and $hello$ ... $hello$ each one
> selected
>
[snip]
To match the literal "$hello$" except at the start of a line, use:

(?<!^)\$hello\$

with the multiline flag set. You could set the multiline flag within
the regex like this:

(?m)(?<!^)\$hello\$

re.search will find the first occurrence. In order to find all such
occurrences in Python, you need to use re.findall or re.finditer.
(Other languages have their own ways.)

Note that there are different 'flavours' of regex, the most common form
following the lead of Perl, and that implementations might differ in
which features they support.


From cs at zip.com.au  Thu Oct 25 22:15:45 2012
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 13:15:45 +1100
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
In-Reply-To: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20121026021545.GA13169@cskk.homeip.net>

On 25Oct2012 18:46, mamboknave at gmail.com <mamboknave at gmail.com> wrote:
| >>> a = [float('nan'), 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
| >>> a
| [nan, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
| >>> a.index(float('nan'))
| Traceback (most recent call last):
|   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
| ValueError: list.index(x): x not in list
| 
| That means, the function .index() cannot detect nan values.
| It happens on both Python 2.6 and Python 3.1
| 
| Is this a bug? Or I am not using .index() correctly?

The special NaN float value always compares unequal, even to itself.
IEEE floating point FTW!

You're using index incorrectly, but only because it relies on ==
returning True, which it won't.

You can use math.isnan:

  http://docs.python.org/library/math.html#math.isnan
  http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/math.html#math.isnan

for the test instead. Nan requires special handling.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

I'm not making any of this up you know. - Anna Russell


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Oct 25 22:19:38 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 03:19:38 +0100
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
In-Reply-To: <k6cr4c$4md$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
	<k6cr4c$4md$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <5089F33A.8010804@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-26 03:04, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 10/25/2012 9:46 PM, mamboknave at gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> a = [float('nan'), 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
>>>>> a
>> [nan, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
>>>>> a.index(float('nan'))
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>> ValueError: list.index(x): x not in list
>>
>> That means, the function .index() cannot detect nan values.
>> It happens on both Python 2.6 and Python 3.1
>>
>> Is this a bug? Or I am not using .index() correctly?
>
> It is a consequence of the following, which some people (but not all)
> believe is mandated by the IEEE standard.
>
>   >>> nan = float('nan')
>   >>> nan is nan
> True
>   >>> nan == nan
> False
>
>   >>> nanlist = [nan]
>   >>> nan in nanlist
> True
>   >>> nanlist.index(nan)
> 0
>
> Containment of nan in collection is tested by is, not ==.
>
>   >>> nan2 = float('nan')
>   >>> nan2 is nan
> False
>   >>> nan2 == nan
> False
>   >>> nan2 in nanlist
> False
>
In summary, .index() looks for an item which is equal to its argument,
but it's a feature of NaN (as defined by the standard) that it doesn't
equal NaN, therefore .index() will never find it.

Another consequence is that the presence of a NaN in a list prevents
.sort() from sorting correctly.



From mamboknave at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 22:22:09 2012
From: mamboknave at gmail.com (mamboknave at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 19:22:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2875.1351217756.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2875.1351217756.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <69dfc5aa-e4f2-4953-a8c4-1adb0b449960@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 25, 2012 7:16:02 PM UTC-7, Cameron Simpson wrote:

Of course!! How could I get into that trap??

Thanks to you & to Terry


From mamboknave at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 22:22:09 2012
From: mamboknave at gmail.com (mamboknave at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 19:22:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2875.1351217756.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2875.1351217756.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <69dfc5aa-e4f2-4953-a8c4-1adb0b449960@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 25, 2012 7:16:02 PM UTC-7, Cameron Simpson wrote:

Of course!! How could I get into that trap??

Thanks to you & to Terry


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct 25 22:33:06 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Oct 2012 02:33:06 GMT
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5089f662$0$29984$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 18:46:20 -0700, mamboknave wrote:

> That means, the function .index() cannot detect nan values. It happens
> on both Python 2.6 and Python 3.1
> 
> Is this a bug? Or I am not using .index() correctly?

You shouldn't be using index() or == to detect NANs. The right way to 
detect NANs is with the math.isnan() function.

The list.index method tests for the item with equality. Since NANs are 
mandated to compare unequal to anything, including themselves, index 
cannot match them.

Try this instead:

from math import isnan

def find_nan(seq):
    """Return the index of the first NAN in seq, otherwise None."""
    for i, x in enumerate(seq):
        if isnan(x):
            return i


For old versions of Python that don't provide an isnan function, you can 
do this:

def isnan(x):
    return x != x



-- 
Steven


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Oct 25 22:37:23 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 03:37:23 +0100
Subject: Quickie - Regexp for a string not at the beginning of the line
In-Reply-To: <9eba5652-f814-41fa-83e4-460bca2be264@n16g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <9eba5652-f814-41fa-83e4-460bca2be264@n16g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k6csr5$g5n$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 25/10/2012 21:53, Rivka Miller wrote:
> Hello Programmers,
>
> I am looking for a regexp for a string not at the beginning of the
> line.
>

Why bother with a silly regex thingy when simple string methods will 
suffice e.g.

'yourstring'.find('xyz', 1)

or

'yourstring'.index('xyz', 1)

or

'xyz' in 'yourstring'[1:]

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Oct 25 22:44:37 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Oct 2012 02:44:37 GMT
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2873.1351217113.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5089f915$0$29984$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 22:04:52 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:

> It is a consequence of the following, which some people (but not all)
> believe is mandated by the IEEE standard.
> 
>  >>> nan = float('nan')
>  >>> nan is nan
> True

The IEEE 754 standard says nothing about object identity. It only 
discusses value equality.

>  >>> nan == nan
> False

IEEE 754 states that all NANs compare unequal to everything, including 
NANs with the same bit value. It doesn't make an exception for 
comparisons with itself.

I'm not entirely sure why you suggest that there is an argument about 
what IEEE 754 says about NANs. As far as I can see, the argument is 
whether or not language designers should pick and choose which bits of 
the standard they want to follow, thus taking a step backwards to the 
chaos of numerical computing prior to the IEEE 754 standard.

Seriously, there are some real horror stories about numerical computing 
back in the Bad Old Days. Like computers where 1.0/x could give a divide-
by-zero error even though x == 0 returned False.



-- 
Steven


From dwightdhutto at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 23:02:11 2012
From: dwightdhutto at gmail.com (David Hutto)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 23:02:11 -0400
Subject: Quickie - Regexp for a string not at the beginning of the line
In-Reply-To: <73f60cf3-d932-4366-a405-6767488560c6@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <9eba5652-f814-41fa-83e4-460bca2be264@n16g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<e6f60702-d85f-4aed-bc03-3147bb007ad8@googlegroups.com>
	<73f60cf3-d932-4366-a405-6767488560c6@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CA+vVgJUGC1f29QEJpHJ3+_XNXKum5-wqWfA85VZ2dPoQ1FO7Ag@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:08 PM, Rivka Miller <rivkaumiller at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 25, 2:27 pm, Danny <dann90... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Why you just don't give us the string/input, say a line or two, and what you want off of it, so we can tell better what to suggest
>
> no one has really helped yet.
>
> I want to search and modify.
>
> I dont wanna be tied to a specific language etc so I just want a
> regexp and as many versions as possible.

If you just find the one command line app that will perform the task,
like awk, then the other languages you will just need to call the
commandline function, and return the output from awk.


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


From anon at anon.anon  Thu Oct 25 23:22:33 2012
From: anon at anon.anon (anon at anon.anon)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 23:22:33 -0400
Subject: Quickie - Regexp for a string not at the beginning of the line
References: <9eba5652-f814-41fa-83e4-460bca2be264@n16g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<e6f60702-d85f-4aed-bc03-3147bb007ad8@googlegroups.com>
	<73f60cf3-d932-4366-a405-6767488560c6@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <jc0k889b366gubg5o8b1ucnloocf3gqv6n@4ax.com>

On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 18:08:53 -0700 (PDT), Rivka Miller
<rivkaumiller at gmail.com> wrote in
<73f60cf3-d932-4366-a405-6767488560c6 at q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>:

>no one has really helped yet.

We regret that you are not a satisfied customer.

Please take your receipt to the cashier and you will receive double your
money back according to our "you must be satisfied" guarantee.


From jason at powerpull.net  Thu Oct 25 23:22:41 2012
From: jason at powerpull.net (Jason Friedman)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 21:22:41 -0600
Subject: SSH Connection with Python
In-Reply-To: <5089119A.2040902@globe.de>
References: <5089119A.2040902@globe.de>
Message-ID: <CANy1k1gV4s8kg0qneZ-gvybiR_y4NwhH_2gR8cdKTmPi7DckWg@mail.gmail.com>

> how can i create a SSH-Connection with python? I have to send some commands
> to the remote host and parse their answers.

Consider also the sh module:
http://amoffat.github.com/sh/tutorials/2-interacting_with_processes.html.


From rodrick.brown at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 00:20:13 2012
From: rodrick.brown at gmail.com (Rodrick Brown)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 00:20:13 -0400
Subject: SSH Connection with Python
In-Reply-To: <5089119A.2040902@globe.de>
References: <5089119A.2040902@globe.de>
Message-ID: <-3764904413297147602@unknownmsgid>

On Oct 25, 2012, at 6:34 AM, Schneider <js at globe.de> wrote:

> Hi Folkz,
> how can i create a SSH-Connection with python? I have to send some commands to the remote host and parse their answers.
> greatz Johannes

Fabric is the way to go!

> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From rivkaumiller at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 00:45:05 2012
From: rivkaumiller at gmail.com (Rivka Miller)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 21:45:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Quickie - Regexp for a string not at the beginning of the line
References: <9eba5652-f814-41fa-83e4-460bca2be264@n16g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<e6f60702-d85f-4aed-bc03-3147bb007ad8@googlegroups.com>
	<73f60cf3-d932-4366-a405-6767488560c6@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<0.485c579271f72431d3a7.20121026031110BST.87k3ue7zk1.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
Message-ID: <d243ac78-ffca-4e93-b2dc-6b30ca7d2586@r6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Thanks everyone, esp this gentleman.

The solution that worked best for me is just to use a DOT before the
string as the one at the beginning of the line did not have any char
before it. I guess, this requires the ability to ignore the CARAT as
the beginning of the line.

I am a satisfied custormer. No need for returns. :)

On Oct 25, 7:11?pm, Ben Bacarisse <ben.use... at bsb.me.uk> wrote:
> Rivka Miller <rivkaumil... at gmail.com> writes:
> > On Oct 25, 2:27?pm, Danny <dann90... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Why you just don't give us the string/input, say a line or two, and
> >> what you want off of it, so we can tell better what to suggest
>
> > no one has really helped yet.
>
> Really? ?I was going to reply but then I saw Janis had given you the
> answer. ?If it's not the answer, you should just reply saying what it is
> that's wrong with it.
>
> > I want to search and modify.
>
> Ah. ?That was missing from the original post. ?You can't expect people
> to help with questions that weren't asked! ?To replace you will usually
> have to capture the single preceding character. ?E.g. in sed:
>
> ? sed -e 's/\(.\)$hello\$/\1XXX/'
>
> but some RE engines (Perl's, for example) allow you specify zero-width
> assertions. ?You could, in Perl, write
>
> ? s/(?<=.)\$hello\$/XXX/
>
> without having to capture whatever preceded the target string. ?But
> since Perl also has negative zero-width look-behind you can code your
> request even more directly:
>
> ? s/(?<!^)\$hello\$/XXX/
>
> > I dont wanna be tied to a specific language etc so I just want a
> > regexp and as many versions as possible. Maybe I should try in emacs
> > and so I am now posting to emacs groups also, although javascript has
> > rich set of regexp facilities.
>
> You can't always have a universal solution because different PE
> implementations have different syntax and semantics, but you should be
> able to translate Janis's solution of matching *something* before your
> target into every RE implementation around.
>
> > examples
>
> > $hello$ should not be selected but
> > not hello but all of the $hello$ and $hello$ ... $hello$ each one
> > selected
>
> I have taken your $s to be literal. ?That's not 100 obvious since $ is a
> common (universal?) RE meta-character.
>
> <snip>
> --
> Ben.



From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 01:08:06 2012
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 01:08:06 -0400
Subject: Quickie - Regexp for a string not at the beginning of the line
In-Reply-To: <k6cqs1$efg$1@dont-email.me>
References: <9eba5652-f814-41fa-83e4-460bca2be264@n16g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<e6f60702-d85f-4aed-bc03-3147bb007ad8@googlegroups.com>
	<73f60cf3-d932-4366-a405-6767488560c6@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<k6cqs1$efg$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CABicbJK7RFLbs3y0ABbF2HNbHw+ax0kW7-qAU0KYsXQ7CoBiLQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:00 PM, Ed Morton <mortonspam at gmail.com> wrote:
> Because there is no solution - there IS no _RE_ that will match a string not
> at the beginning of a line.

Depending on what the OP meant, the following would both work:

- r"^(?!mystring)" (the string does not occur at the beginning)
- r"(?!^)mystring" (the string occurs elsewhere than the beginning)
  [Someone else's interpretation]

Both are "regular expressions" even in the academic sense, or else
have a translation as regular expressions in the academic sense.
They're also Python regexps. So I don't know what you mean.

-- Devin


From dloewenherz at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 01:12:07 2012
From: dloewenherz at gmail.com (Dan Loewenherz)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 22:12:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <k6c8kh$lqj$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2803.1351119286.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2807.1351121989.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6apaa$eid$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<mailman.2854.1351183039.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6c8kh$lqj$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
Message-ID: <f3e3c344-8a7d-46f7-b499-144775c7f9aa@googlegroups.com>

It seems the topic of this thread has changed drastically from the original message.

1) "while EXPR as VAR" in no way says that EXPR must be a boolean value. In fact, a use case I've run into commonly in web development is popping from a redis set. E.g.

    client = StrictRedis()
    while True:
        profile_id = client.spop("profile_ids")
        if not profile_id:
            break
        print profile_id

In this case, profile_id is "None" when the loop breaks. It would be much more straightforward (and more Pythonic, IMO), to write:

    client = StrictRedis()
    while client.spop("profile_ids") as profile_id:
        print profile_id

2) Although not originally intended, I kind of like the "if" statement change proposed later in this thread. It certainly makes sense, since both while and if are "conditional" statements that are commonly followed by an assignment (or vice versa).

3) I don't think the use case I brought up is solved nicely by wrapping a function / lambda in a generator and using a for loop. E.g.

    def helper(f):
        value = f()
        if value:
            yield value

    for profile_id in helper(lambda: client.spop("profile_ids")):
        print profile_id

This works too, I guess

    def helper(f, *args, **kwargs):
        value = f(*args, **kwargs)
        if value:
            yield value

    for profile_id in helper(client.spop, "profile_ids"):
        print profile_id

Either way, it adds too much mental overhead. Every developer on a project has to now insert x lines of code before a for loop or import a helper method from some module, and do this every time this pattern reappears. It's not something I would want to do in one of my projects, since it makes things harder to understand. So all in all, it's a net negative from just doing things the canonical way (with the while / assignment pattern).

Dan


From cs at zip.com.au  Fri Oct 26 01:57:17 2012
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 16:57:17 +1100
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
In-Reply-To: <k6cr4c$4md$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <k6cr4c$4md$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20121026055717.GA28420@cskk.homeip.net>

On 25Oct2012 22:04, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
| Containment of nan in collection is tested by is, not ==.
|  >>> nan = float('nan')
|  >>> nan2 = float('nan')
|  >>> nan2 is nan
| False

This argues otherwise, and for use of math.isnan() instead.

I expect you were making the point that another NaN is distinct, but it
didn't seem clear to me.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

In article 1t8n9hINNq9j at dns1.NMSU.Edu, mcrider at acca.nmsu.edu (Mcrider) writes:
>Could one of you physicist-type cyber-riders give a lucid description/
>explanation of what some folks loosely refer to as a 'tank-slapper'?

An undamped oscillation of camber thrust, with positive feedback,
applied to the front contact patch?  :^)
        - Ed Green, Ed.Green at East.Sun.COM, DoD#0111


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Fri Oct 26 02:06:01 2012
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 23:06:01 -0700
Subject: while expression feature proposal
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2803.1351119286.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2807.1351121989.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6apaa$eid$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<mailman.2854.1351183039.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6c8kh$lqj$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<f3e3c344-8a7d-46f7-b499-144775c7f9aa@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x7gqdzs1i.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dan Loewenherz <dloewenherz at gmail.com> writes:
> In this case, profile_id is "None" when the loop breaks. It would be
> much more straightforward (and more Pythonic, IMO), to write:
>
>     client = StrictRedis()
>     while client.spop("profile_ids") as profile_id:
>         print profile_id

That is pretty loose, in my opinion.  If the loop is supposed to return
a string until breaking on None, the break test should explicitly check
for None rather than rely on an implicit bool conversion that will also
test as false on an empty string.  Code that handles strings should do
the right thing with the empty string.  What you posted relies on an
unstated assumption that the strings that come back are never empty.

> it's a net negative from just doing things the canonical way (with the
> while / assignment pattern).

Yeah, the while/assignment is a bit ugly but it doesn't come up often
enough to be a bad problem, imho.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 02:23:12 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 17:23:12 +1100
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <7x7gqdzs1i.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2803.1351119286.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2807.1351121989.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6apaa$eid$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<mailman.2854.1351183039.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6c8kh$lqj$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<f3e3c344-8a7d-46f7-b499-144775c7f9aa@googlegroups.com>
	<7x7gqdzs1i.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqhw8w2G=vqHt=LpWejLFG16npgZk6CbBBG0d1CMnhAoA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Dan Loewenherz <dloewenherz at gmail.com> writes:
>> In this case, profile_id is "None" when the loop breaks. It would be
>> much more straightforward (and more Pythonic, IMO), to write:
>>
>>     client = StrictRedis()
>>     while client.spop("profile_ids") as profile_id:
>>         print profile_id
>
> That is pretty loose, in my opinion.  If the loop is supposed to return
> a string until breaking on None, the break test should explicitly check
> for None rather than rely on an implicit bool conversion that will also
> test as false on an empty string.

while (client.spop("profile_ids") as profile_id) is not None:
    print profile_id

Why is everyone skirting around C-style assignment expressions as
though they're simultaneously anathema and the goal? :)

But seriously, this new syntax would probably enhance Python somewhat,
but you're going to end up with odd edge cases where it's just as
almost-there as current syntax is for what this will solve. Is it
worth doing half the job?

ChrisA


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Fri Oct 26 03:49:50 2012
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 09:49:50 +0200
Subject: better way for ' '.join(args) + '\n'?
Message-ID: <utrpl9-udk.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Hi!

General advise when assembling strings is to not concatenate them 
repeatedly but instead use string's join() function, because it avoids 
repeated reallocations and is at least as expressive as any alternative.

What I have now is a case where I'm assembling lines of text for driving 
a program with a commandline interface. In this scenario, I'm currently 
doing this:

   args = ['foo', 'bar', 'baz']
   line = ' '.join(args) + '\n'

So, in other words, I'm avoiding all the unnecessary copying, just to 
make another copy to append the final newline.

The only way around this that I found involves creating an intermediate 
sequence like ['foo', ' ', 'bar', ' ', 'baz', '\n']. This can be done 
rather cleanly with a generator:

   def helper(s):
       for i in s[:-1]:
            yield i
            yield ' '
       yield s[-1]
       yield '\n'
   line = ''.join(tmp(args))

Efficiency-wise, this is satisfactory. However, readability counts and 
that is where this version fails and that is the reason why I'm writing 
this message. So, dear fellow Pythonistas, any ideas to improve the 
original versions efficiency while preserving its expressiveness?

Oh, for all those that are tempted to tell me that this is not my 
bottleneck unless it's called in a very tight loop, you're right. 
Indeed, the overhead of the communication channel TCP between the two 
programs is by far dwarving the few microseconds I could save here. I'm 
still interested in learning new and better solutions though.


Cheers!

Uli



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Oct 26 03:54:02 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 03:54:02 -0400
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
In-Reply-To: <5089f915$0$29984$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2873.1351217113.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5089f915$0$29984$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <k6dfiv$igm$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/25/2012 10:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 22:04:52 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
>
>> It is a consequence of the following, which some people (but not all)
>> believe is mandated by the IEEE standard.
>>
>>   >>> nan = float('nan')
>>   >>> nan is nan
>> True
>
> The IEEE 754 standard says nothing about object identity. It only
> discusses value equality.
>
>>   >>> nan == nan
>> False
>
> IEEE 754 states that all NANs compare unequal to everything, including
> NANs with the same bit value. It doesn't make an exception for
> comparisons with itself.
>
> I'm not entirely sure why you suggest that there is an argument about
> what IEEE 754 says about NANs.

I did not do so.

> As far as I can see, the argument is
> whether or not language designers should pick and choose which bits of
> the standard they want to follow, thus taking a step backwards to the
> chaos of numerical computing prior to the IEEE 754 standard.

There has been disagreement about whether the standard mandates that 
Python behave the way it does. That is a fact, but I have no interest in 
discussing the issue.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Oct 26 04:00:03 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 04:00:03 -0400
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
In-Reply-To: <5089F33A.8010804@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
	<k6cr4c$4md$1@ger.gmane.org> <5089F33A.8010804@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <k6dfu8$l4p$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/25/2012 10:19 PM, MRAB wrote:
> On 2012-10-26 03:04, Terry Reedy wrote:
>> On 10/25/2012 9:46 PM, mamboknave at gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> a = [float('nan'), 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
>>>>>> a
>>> [nan, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
>>>>>> a.index(float('nan'))

This is a second nan object, and it is not in the list.

>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>>> ValueError: list.index(x): x not in list
>>>
>>> That means, the function .index() cannot detect nan values.
>>> It happens on both Python 2.6 and Python 3.1
>>>
>>> Is this a bug? Or I am not using .index() correctly?
>>
>> It is a consequence of the following, which some people (but not all)
>> believe is mandated by the IEEE standard.
>>
>>   >>> nan = float('nan')
>>   >>> nan is nan
>> True
>>   >>> nan == nan
>> False
>>
>>   >>> nanlist = [nan]
>>   >>> nan in nanlist
>> True
>>   >>> nanlist.index(nan)
>> 0

.index found the nan.

>> Containment of nan in collection is tested by is, not ==.
>>
>>   >>> nan2 = float('nan')
>>   >>> nan2 is nan
>> False
>>   >>> nan2 == nan
>> False
>>   >>> nan2 in nanlist
>> False
>>
> In summary, .index() looks for an item which is equal to its argument,
> but it's a feature of NaN (as defined by the standard) that it doesn't
> equal NaN, therefore .index() will never find it.

Except that is *does* find the particular nan object that is in the 
collection. So nan in collection and list.index(nan) look for the nan by 
identity, not equality. This inconsistency is an intentional decision to 
not propagate the insanity of nan != nan to Python collections.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Fri Oct 26 04:31:43 2012
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 10:31:43 +0200
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
In-Reply-To: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net>
References: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <508A4A6F.3000200@rece.vub.ac.be>

On 25-10-12 16:47, Charles Hixson wrote:
> In Python3 is there any good way to count the number of on bits in an
> integer (after an & operation)?
> Alternatively, is there any VERY light-weight implementation of a bit
> set?  I'd prefer to use integers, as I'm probably going to need
> thousands of these, if the tests work out.  But before I can test, I
> need a decent bit counter.  (shift, xor, &, and | are already present
> for integer values, but I also need to count the number of "true"
> items after the logical operation.  So if a bitset is the correct
> approach, I'll need it to implement those operations, or their
> equivalents in terms of union and intersection.)
>
> Or do I need to drop into C for this?
>
Some time ago I implemented this. Maybe you can use it as inspiration.

def CardSet(iter):
    bits = 0L
    for el in iter:
      bits = bits | (1L << el)
    return CardSetType(bits)

def CSt(*args):
  return CardSet(args)

class CardSetType:
  def __init__(self, bits):
    self.bits = bits

  def __str__(self):
    return '{' + ','.join(map(str , self)) + '}'

  def __repr__(self):
    return 'CSt(' + ','.join(map(str , self)) + ')'

  def __eq__(self, term):
    return self.bits == term.bits

  def __contains__(self, el):
    return (1L << el) & self.bits == 1L << el

  def __and__(self, term):
    return CardSetType(self.bits & term.bits)

  def __or__(self, term):
    return CardSetType(self.bits | term.bits)

  def __xor__(self, term):
    return CardSetType(self.bits ^ term.bits)

  def __sub__(self, term):
    return CardSetType(self.bits & ~term.bits)

  def __le__(self, term):
    return self.bits & term.bits == self.bits

  def __ge__(self, term):
    return self.bits | term.bits == self.bits

  def __len__(self):
    bits = self.bits
    full = 1L
    shift = 1L
    index = 0
    mask = []
    while full < bits:
      for i in range(index):
        mask[i] = (mask[i] << shift) + mask[i]
      mask.append(full)
      full = (full << shift) + full
      index = index + 1
      shift = 2 * shift
    shift = 1
    for i in range(index):
      bits = ((bits >> shift) & mask[i]) + (bits & mask[i])
      shift = 2 * shift
    return int(bits)

  def incl(self, el):
    self.bits = self.bits | 1L << el

  def excl(self, el):
    self.bits = self.bits & ~(1L << el)

  def __iter__(self):
    return SetIterator(self.bits)

class SetIterator:

  def __init__(self, bits):
    self.bits = bits
    self.offset = 0

  def __iter__(self):
    return self

  def next(self):
    if self.bits == 0:
      raise StopIteration
    else:
      while True:
        shift = 0
        delta = 1
        full = 1L
        while (self.bits & full) == 0:
          full = (full << delta) + full
          shift = delta
          delta = delta * 2
        if shift == 0:
          break
        self.offset = self.offset + shift
        self.bits = self.bits >> shift
      result = self.offset
      self.offset = self.offset + 1
      self.bits = self.bits >> 1
      return result



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Oct 26 04:58:56 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 10:58:56 +0200
Subject: better way for ' '.join(args) + '\n'?
References: <utrpl9-udk.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <k6djbc$i4g$1@ger.gmane.org>

Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> General advise when assembling strings is to not concatenate them
> repeatedly but instead use string's join() function, because it avoids
> repeated reallocations and is at least as expressive as any alternative.
> 
> What I have now is a case where I'm assembling lines of text for driving
> a program with a commandline interface. In this scenario, I'm currently
> doing this:
> 
>    args = ['foo', 'bar', 'baz']
>    line = ' '.join(args) + '\n'
> 
> So, in other words, I'm avoiding all the unnecessary copying, just to
> make another copy to append the final newline.
> 
> The only way around this that I found involves creating an intermediate
> sequence like ['foo', ' ', 'bar', ' ', 'baz', '\n']. This can be done
> rather cleanly with a generator:
> 
>    def helper(s):
>        for i in s[:-1]:
>             yield i
>             yield ' '
>        yield s[-1]
>        yield '\n'
>    line = ''.join(tmp(args))
> 
> Efficiency-wise, this is satisfactory. 

No, it is not. In a quick timeit test it takes 5 to 10 times as long as the 
original. Remember that function calls are costly, and that with s[:-1] you 
are trading the extra string for an extra list. Also, you are doubling the 
loop implicit in str.join() with the explicit one in your oh-so-efficient 
generator.

> However, readability counts and
> that is where this version fails and that is the reason why I'm writing
> this message. So, dear fellow Pythonistas, any ideas to improve the
> original versions efficiency while preserving its expressiveness?
> 
> Oh, for all those that are tempted to tell me that this is not my
> bottleneck unless it's called in a very tight loop, you're right.
> Indeed, the overhead of the communication channel TCP between the two
> programs is by far dwarving the few microseconds I could save here. I'm
> still interested in learning new and better solutions though.

Even if it were the bottleneck the helper generator approach would still be 
unhelpful.





From janis_papanagnou at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 26 05:18:38 2012
From: janis_papanagnou at hotmail.com (Janis Papanagnou)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 11:18:38 +0200
Subject: Quickie - Regexp for a string not at the beginning of the line
References: <9eba5652-f814-41fa-83e4-460bca2be264@n16g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<e6f60702-d85f-4aed-bc03-3147bb007ad8@googlegroups.com>
	<73f60cf3-d932-4366-a405-6767488560c6@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<0.485c579271f72431d3a7.20121026031110BST.87k3ue7zk1.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
	<d243ac78-ffca-4e93-b2dc-6b30ca7d2586@r6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k6dkhb$4uk$3@speranza.aioe.org>

Am 26.10.2012 06:45, schrieb Rivka Miller:
> Thanks everyone, esp this gentleman.

Who is "this"?

>
> The solution that worked best for me is just to use a DOT before the
> string as the one at the beginning of the line did not have any char
> before it.

Which was what I suggested, and where you rudely answered...

> no one has really helped yet.

And obviously...

> I am a satisfied custormer.

...your perception about yourself and about the role of us
Usenet posters seems also not be very sane. Good luck.



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Oct 26 05:36:22 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Oct 2012 09:36:22 GMT
Subject: better way for ' '.join(args) + '\n'?
References: <utrpl9-udk.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <508a5996$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 09:49:50 +0200, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> General advise when assembling strings is to not concatenate them
> repeatedly but instead use string's join() function, because it avoids
> repeated reallocations and is at least as expressive as any alternative.
> 
> What I have now is a case where I'm assembling lines of text for driving
> a program with a commandline interface. In this scenario, I'm currently
> doing this:
> 
>    args = ['foo', 'bar', 'baz']
>    line = ' '.join(args) + '\n'
> 
> So, in other words, I'm avoiding all the unnecessary copying, just to
> make another copy to append the final newline.

*shrug*

The difference between ' '.join(sequence) and (' '.join(sequence) + '\n') 
is, in Big Oh analysis, insignificant. The first case does O(N) 
operations, the second does O(N) + O(N) = 2*O(N) operations, which is 
still O(N). In effect, the two differ only by an approximately constant 
factor.

If you really care, and you don't mind ending your last line with a 
space, just append '\n' to the sequence before calling join.


> The only way around this that I found involves creating an intermediate
> sequence like ['foo', ' ', 'bar', ' ', 'baz', '\n']. This can be done
> rather cleanly with a generator:
> 
>    def helper(s):
>        for i in s[:-1]:
>             yield i
>             yield ' '
>        yield s[-1]
>        yield '\n'
>    line = ''.join(tmp(args))
> 
> Efficiency-wise, this is satisfactory. 

Have you actually tested this? I would not be the least surprised if 
that's actually less efficient than the (' '.join(seq) + '\n') version.


-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Oct 26 05:43:17 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Oct 2012 09:43:17 GMT
Subject: while expression feature proposal
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2803.1351119286.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2807.1351121989.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6apaa$eid$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<mailman.2854.1351183039.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6c8kh$lqj$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<f3e3c344-8a7d-46f7-b499-144775c7f9aa@googlegroups.com>
	<7x7gqdzs1i.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2884.1351232595.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <508a5b35$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 17:23:12 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> Why is everyone skirting around C-style assignment expressions as though
> they're simultaneously anathema and the goal? :)

Only if your goal is to introduce an anathema :P


-- 
Steven


From nospam at nospam.com  Fri Oct 26 05:56:48 2012
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 11:56:48 +0200
Subject: Question about long-running web scripts
References: <nm8i889v1p5orgk4dkvtcurguk11lvm6r8@4ax.com>
	<50892A82.2070206@timgolden.me.uk>
	<mailman.2839.1351169594.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0gnk88t800lvpb3622vejjsrfoh6pp9tt2@4ax.com>

On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 08:53:11 -0400, David Hutto
<dwightdhutto at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> OTOH, Python web scripts can be written as long-running scripts: In
>>> this case, what is the added-value of using FastCGI? Why can't the
>>> web server simply call the Python script directly, just like CGI?
>
>The server should call a the script, or script.sleep()
>
>There are also server options to setup when a script is run, other
>than a cron jo for php.

Thanks. Does it mean that Python scripts that rely on either fcgi.py
or WSGI really have some endless loop somewhere and will keep running
once they're launched by FastCGI?


From nospam at nospam.com  Fri Oct 26 05:58:08 2012
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 11:58:08 +0200
Subject: Question about long-running web scripts
References: <nm8i889v1p5orgk4dkvtcurguk11lvm6r8@4ax.com>
	<mailman.2838.1351166605.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<skci88lm21ldghic8k4leo8n6tminmam5l@4ax.com>
	<mailman.2840.1351171460.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9bnk88dur0dth363vc492ibk8fhcd19nu7@4ax.com>

On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:24:16 +0100, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk>
wrote:
>> But actually, I didn't mean one-shot scripts, where the Python
>> interpreter + script must be loaded each time, but rather: If I leave
>> a Python running in an endless loop, why not just use either CGI or
>> some other basic way to call the script instead of FastCGI?
>
>In essence, you're describing FastCGI. A Python program (or, indeed, any
>program) which uses FastCGI runs continuously and waits for the incoming
>request on a TCP socket (instead of as a sys.stdin stream + env vars
>immediately after process startup).

Thanks for the clarification.

Since, unlike PHP, the Python interpreter is not available in a
FastCGI-capable version, this explains why the www server must be told
which specific Python script to run through FastCGI.

The reason I ask for all this, is that I want to understand how things
work under the hood before relying on a Python framework to handle the
nitty-gritty.


From asen.bozhilov at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 06:46:55 2012
From: asen.bozhilov at gmail.com (Asen Bozhilov)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 03:46:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Quickie - Regexp for a string not at the beginning of the line
References: <9eba5652-f814-41fa-83e4-460bca2be264@n16g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e6119ead-c346-4429-9b8f-8b0c5ce974df@l7g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>

Rivka Miller wrote:
> I am looking for a regexp for a string not at the beginning of the
> line.
>
> For example, I want to find $hello$ that does not occur at the
> beginning of the string, ie all $hello$ that exclude ^$hello$.

The begging of the string is zero width character. So you could use
negative lookahead (?!^).
Then the regular expression looks like:

/(?!^)\$hello\$/g

var str = '$hello$ should not be selected but',
    str1 = 'not hello but all of the $hello$ and $hello$ ... $hello$
each one ';

str.match(/(?!^)\$hello\$/g); //null
str1.match(/(?!^)\$hello\$/g); //["$hello$", "$hello$", "$hello$"]





From andriy.kornatskyy at live.com  Fri Oct 26 06:53:10 2012
From: andriy.kornatskyy at live.com (Andriy Kornatskyy)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 13:53:10 +0300
Subject: Fastest web framework
In-Reply-To: <8b51748d-0517-4b1d-a0a6-e8fa06dd4b68@r10g2000pbd.googlegroups.com>
References: <DUB117-W80EE2285B5E415AA14B5B9919F0@phx.gbl>,
	<mailman.2203.1350308439.27098.python-list@python.org>,
	<8b51748d-0517-4b1d-a0a6-e8fa06dd4b68@r10g2000pbd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <DUB117-W3854AFD0C6626170A9B3FC917E0@phx.gbl>


Alex,

You can read wheezy.web introduction here:

http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/10/wheezy-web-introduction.html

Thanks.

Andriy Kornatskyy

----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 18:26:16 -0700
> Subject: Re: Fastest web framework
> From: wuwei23 at gmail.com
> To: python-list at python.org
>
> On Oct 15, 11:40 pm, Andriy Kornatskyy <andriy.kornats... at live.com>
> wrote:
> > Comments or suggestions are welcome.
>
> Performance speed is possibly the least interesting aspect of web
> frameworks; ease of use & readily re-usable 3rd party code figures
> much higher, IMO. Rather than constantly hammer on about performance,
> maybe you could take the time to explain any other advantages your
> framework provides.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
 		 	   		  

From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Fri Oct 26 07:00:17 2012
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 12:00:17 +0100
Subject: Question about long-running web scripts
In-Reply-To: <9bnk88dur0dth363vc492ibk8fhcd19nu7@4ax.com>
References: <nm8i889v1p5orgk4dkvtcurguk11lvm6r8@4ax.com>
	<mailman.2838.1351166605.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<skci88lm21ldghic8k4leo8n6tminmam5l@4ax.com>
	<mailman.2840.1351171460.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<9bnk88dur0dth363vc492ibk8fhcd19nu7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <508A6D41.1040204@timgolden.me.uk>

On 26/10/2012 10:58, Gilles wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:24:16 +0100, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk>
> wrote:
>>> But actually, I didn't mean one-shot scripts, where the Python
>>> interpreter + script must be loaded each time, but rather: If I leave
>>> a Python running in an endless loop, why not just use either CGI or
>>> some other basic way to call the script instead of FastCGI?
>>
>> In essence, you're describing FastCGI. A Python program (or, indeed, any
>> program) which uses FastCGI runs continuously and waits for the incoming
>> request on a TCP socket (instead of as a sys.stdin stream + env vars
>> immediately after process startup).
> 
> Thanks for the clarification.
> 
> Since, unlike PHP, the Python interpreter is not available in a
> FastCGI-capable version, this explains why the www server must be told
> which specific Python script to run through FastCGI.

I think that this is the distinction you're making:

PHP: mod_php (fastcgi mode) runs myscript.php

Python: <some python fcgi frontend>.py runs myscript.py

which is, essentially, true, not least because PHP and web apps are
pretty much synonymous in many people's minds. Both ways: the only thing
PHP does is web; the simplest route to a web app is PHP.

Certainly there are Python equivalents (mod_python, mod_wsgi, etc.)
which can run in effectively the same way as mod_php, and they could be
configured to run an fcgi frontend script, I presume. There's always a
certain confusion here because you can often one mechanisms (say,
mod_wsgi) to act as another (say legacy one-shot CGI) and because some
things are both mechanism and protocol and it's not always easy to tease
the two apart.


> 
> The reason I ask for all this, is that I want to understand how things
> work under the hood before relying on a Python framework to handle the
> nitty-gritty.

Good scheme.

TJG


From nospam at nospam.com  Fri Oct 26 07:37:19 2012
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 13:37:19 +0200
Subject: Question about long-running web scripts
References: <nm8i889v1p5orgk4dkvtcurguk11lvm6r8@4ax.com>
	<mailman.2838.1351166605.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<skci88lm21ldghic8k4leo8n6tminmam5l@4ax.com>
	<mailman.2840.1351171460.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<9bnk88dur0dth363vc492ibk8fhcd19nu7@4ax.com>
	<mailman.2890.1351249221.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a8tk8815liiibh562r1ohcd2pailafia8h@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 12:00:17 +0100, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk>
wrote:
>Certainly there are Python equivalents (mod_python, mod_wsgi, etc.)
>which can run in effectively the same way as mod_php, and they could be
>configured to run an fcgi frontend script, I presume. There's always a
>certain confusion here because you can often one mechanisms (say,
>mod_wsgi) to act as another (say legacy one-shot CGI) and because some
>things are both mechanism and protocol and it's not always easy to tease
>the two apart.

Thanks again.


From ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk  Fri Oct 26 08:11:56 2012
From: ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk (Ben Bacarisse)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 13:11:56 +0100
Subject: Quickie - Regexp for a string not at the beginning of the line
References: <9eba5652-f814-41fa-83e4-460bca2be264@n16g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<e6f60702-d85f-4aed-bc03-3147bb007ad8@googlegroups.com>
	<73f60cf3-d932-4366-a405-6767488560c6@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<0.485c579271f72431d3a7.20121026031110BST.87k3ue7zk1.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
	<d243ac78-ffca-4e93-b2dc-6b30ca7d2586@r6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0.dea0cf42f0d760648f68.20121026131156BST.8739118mb7.fsf@bsb.me.uk>

Rivka Miller <rivkaumiller at gmail.com> writes:

> Thanks everyone, esp this gentleman.

Kind of you to single me out, but it was Janis Papanagnou who first
posted the solution that you say "works best" for you.

<snip>
-- 
Ben.


From mortonspam at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 08:32:10 2012
From: mortonspam at gmail.com (Ed Morton)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 07:32:10 -0500
Subject: Quickie - Regexp for a string not at the beginning of the line
In-Reply-To: <d243ac78-ffca-4e93-b2dc-6b30ca7d2586@r6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <9eba5652-f814-41fa-83e4-460bca2be264@n16g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<e6f60702-d85f-4aed-bc03-3147bb007ad8@googlegroups.com>
	<73f60cf3-d932-4366-a405-6767488560c6@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<0.485c579271f72431d3a7.20121026031110BST.87k3ue7zk1.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
	<d243ac78-ffca-4e93-b2dc-6b30ca7d2586@r6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k6dvsb$sve$1@dont-email.me>

On 10/25/2012 11:45 PM, Rivka Miller wrote:
> Thanks everyone, esp this gentleman.
>
> The solution that worked best for me is just to use a DOT before the
> string as the one at the beginning of the line did not have any char
> before it.

That's fine but do you understand that that is not an RE that matches on 
"$hello$ not at the start of a line", it's an RE that matches on "<any 
char>$hello$ anywhere in the line"? There's a difference - if you use a tool 
that prints the text that matches an RE then the output if the first RE existed 
would be "$hello$" while the output for the second RE would be "X$hello$" or 
"Y$hello$" or....

In some tools you can use /(.)$hello$/ or similar to ignore the first part of 
the RE "(.)" and just print the second "$hello", but that ability and it's 
syntax is tool-specific, you still can't say "here's an RE that does this", 
you've got to say "here's how to find this text using tool <whatever>".

    Ed.

> I guess, this requires the ability to ignore the CARAT as the beginning of the line.
>
> I am a satisfied custormer. No need for returns. :)
>
> On Oct 25, 7:11 pm, Ben Bacarisse <ben.use... at bsb.me.uk> wrote:
>> Rivka Miller <rivkaumil... at gmail.com> writes:
>>> On Oct 25, 2:27 pm, Danny <dann90... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Why you just don't give us the string/input, say a line or two, and
>>>> what you want off of it, so we can tell better what to suggest
>>
>>> no one has really helped yet.
>>
>> Really?  I was going to reply but then I saw Janis had given you the
>> answer.  If it's not the answer, you should just reply saying what it is
>> that's wrong with it.
>>
>>> I want to search and modify.
>>
>> Ah.  That was missing from the original post.  You can't expect people
>> to help with questions that weren't asked!  To replace you will usually
>> have to capture the single preceding character.  E.g. in sed:
>>
>>    sed -e 's/\(.\)$hello\$/\1XXX/'
>>
>> but some RE engines (Perl's, for example) allow you specify zero-width
>> assertions.  You could, in Perl, write
>>
>>    s/(?<=.)\$hello\$/XXX/
>>
>> without having to capture whatever preceded the target string.  But
>> since Perl also has negative zero-width look-behind you can code your
>> request even more directly:
>>
>>    s/(?<!^)\$hello\$/XXX/
>>
>>> I dont wanna be tied to a specific language etc so I just want a
>>> regexp and as many versions as possible. Maybe I should try in emacs
>>> and so I am now posting to emacs groups also, although javascript has
>>> rich set of regexp facilities.
>>
>> You can't always have a universal solution because different PE
>> implementations have different syntax and semantics, but you should be
>> able to translate Janis's solution of matching *something* before your
>> target into every RE implementation around.
>>
>>> examples
>>
>>> $hello$ should not be selected but
>>> not hello but all of the $hello$ and $hello$ ... $hello$ each one
>>> selected
>>
>> I have taken your $s to be literal.  That's not 100 obvious since $ is a
>> common (universal?) RE meta-character.
>>
>> <snip>
>> --
>> Ben.
>



From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 08:53:44 2012
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 08:53:44 -0400
Subject: Quickie - Regexp for a string not at the beginning of the line
In-Reply-To: <k6dvsb$sve$1@dont-email.me>
References: <9eba5652-f814-41fa-83e4-460bca2be264@n16g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<e6f60702-d85f-4aed-bc03-3147bb007ad8@googlegroups.com>
	<73f60cf3-d932-4366-a405-6767488560c6@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<0.485c579271f72431d3a7.20121026031110BST.87k3ue7zk1.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
	<d243ac78-ffca-4e93-b2dc-6b30ca7d2586@r6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<k6dvsb$sve$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+zKrQeGxXUQ2hc6bUfNT__RTcQ92a1Dtgid8C0LxfO4aw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 8:32 AM, Ed Morton <mortonspam at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/25/2012 11:45 PM, Rivka Miller wrote:
>>
>> Thanks everyone, esp this gentleman.
>>
>> The solution that worked best for me is just to use a DOT before the
>> string as the one at the beginning of the line did not have any char
>> before it.
>
>
> That's fine but do you understand that that is not an RE that matches on
> "$hello$ not at the start of a line", it's an RE that matches on "<any
> char>$hello$ anywhere in the line"? There's a difference - if you use a tool
> that prints the text that matches an RE then the output if the first RE
> existed would be "$hello$" while the output for the second RE would be
> "X$hello$" or "Y$hello$" or....
>
> In some tools you can use /(.)$hello$/ or similar to ignore the first part
> of the RE "(.)" and just print the second "$hello", but that ability and
> it's syntax is tool-specific, you still can't say "here's an RE that does
> this", you've got to say "here's how to find this text using tool
> <whatever>".
>
>    Ed.
>
>
>> I guess, this requires the ability to ignore the CARAT as the beginning of
>> the line.
>>
>> I am a satisfied custormer. No need for returns. :)
>>
>> On Oct 25, 7:11 pm, Ben Bacarisse <ben.use... at bsb.me.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> Rivka Miller <rivkaumil... at gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 25, 2:27 pm, Danny <dann90... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Why you just don't give us the string/input, say a line or two, and
>>>>> what you want off of it, so we can tell better what to suggest
>>>
>>>
>>>> no one has really helped yet.
>>>
>>>
>>> Really?  I was going to reply but then I saw Janis had given you the
>>> answer.  If it's not the answer, you should just reply saying what it is
>>> that's wrong with it.
>>>
>>>> I want to search and modify.
>>>
>>>
>>> Ah.  That was missing from the original post.  You can't expect people
>>> to help with questions that weren't asked!  To replace you will usually
>>> have to capture the single preceding character.  E.g. in sed:
>>>
>>>    sed -e 's/\(.\)$hello\$/\1XXX/'
>>>
>>> but some RE engines (Perl's, for example) allow you specify zero-width
>>> assertions.  You could, in Perl, write
>>>
>>>    s/(?<=.)\$hello\$/XXX/
>>>
>>> without having to capture whatever preceded the target string.  But
>>> since Perl also has negative zero-width look-behind you can code your
>>> request even more directly:
>>>
>>>    s/(?<!^)\$hello\$/XXX/
>>>
>>>> I dont wanna be tied to a specific language etc so I just want a
>>>> regexp and as many versions as possible. Maybe I should try in emacs
>>>> and so I am now posting to emacs groups also, although javascript has
>>>> rich set of regexp facilities.
>>>
>>>
>>> You can't always have a universal solution because different PE
>>> implementations have different syntax and semantics, but you should be
>>> able to translate Janis's solution of matching *something* before your
>>> target into every RE implementation around.
>>>
>>>> examples
>>>
>>>
>>>> $hello$ should not be selected but
>>>> not hello but all of the $hello$ and $hello$ ... $hello$ each one
>>>> selected
>>>
>>>
>>> I have taken your $s to be literal.  That's not 100 obvious since $ is a
>>> common (universal?) RE meta-character.
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>> --
>>> Ben.
>>
>>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

I would use str.find('your string')

It returns -1 if not found, and the index if it finds it.

why use regex for this?

-- 
Joel Goldstick


From neilc at norwich.edu  Fri Oct 26 08:56:27 2012
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 26 Oct 2012 12:56:27 GMT
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
References: <5089511E.4090009@earthlink.net> <k6bllq$3gt$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2849.1351179123.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<50896152$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<aetk2pFsd2rU3@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.2864.1351196432.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aevfjqFaa5tU3@mid.individual.net>

On 2012-10-25, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 2:00 PM, Neil Cerutti
> <neilc at norwich.edu> wrote:
>> Yes indeed! Python string operations are fast enough and its
>> arithmetic slow enough that I no longer assume I can beat a
>> neat lexicographical solution. Try defeating the following
>> with arithmetic:
>>
>> def is_palindrom(n):
>>    s = str(n)
>>    return s = s[::-1]
>
> Problems like these are fundamentally string problems, not math
> problems.  The question being asked isn't about some essential
> property of the number,  but about its digital representation.
> Certainly they can be reasoned about mathematically, but the
> fact remains that the math being done is about the properties
> of strings.

The "unexpected" part, to me, is that an optimal arithmetic based
solution conceptually is more efficient. You need to compute just
half the digits of the number and then perform a contant compare
operation.

-- 
Neil Cerutti


From awilliam at whitemice.org  Fri Oct 26 11:11:58 2012
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 11:11:58 -0400
Subject: Escaping from the tedium of naive datetime objects.
Message-ID: <1351264318.3935.4.camel@linux-nysu.site>

Yesterday I stumbled upon a nice solution to dealing with naive
datetimes vs. localized datetimes, and much of the tedium that issues
from that problem.   Maybe this is very common knownledge but it wasn't
mentioned in anything I've read - it really cleans up some opertaions.

<http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com/2012/10/setting-course-for-utc.html>


[constructive] Feedback and other suggestions appreciated.

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam at whitemice.org>



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Oct 26 11:26:10 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Oct 2012 15:26:10 GMT
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2873.1351217113.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5089f915$0$29984$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2885.1351238073.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <508aab92$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 03:54:02 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:

> On 10/25/2012 10:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 22:04:52 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
>>
>>> It is a consequence of the following, which some people (but not all)
>>> believe is mandated by the IEEE standard.
>>>
>>>   >>> nan = float('nan')
>>>   >>> nan is nan
>>> True
>>
>> The IEEE 754 standard says nothing about object identity. It only
>> discusses value equality.
>>
>>>   >>> nan == nan
>>> False
>>
>> IEEE 754 states that all NANs compare unequal to everything, including
>> NANs with the same bit value. It doesn't make an exception for
>> comparisons with itself.
>>
>> I'm not entirely sure why you suggest that there is an argument about
>> what IEEE 754 says about NANs.
> 
> I did not do so.

I'm afraid you did. Your quote is shown above, and repeated here:

"... some people (but not all) believe is mandated by the IEEE standard"

This suggests that there is a disagreement -- an argument -- about what 
the IEEE standard mandates about NANs. I don't know why you think this 
disagreement exists, or who these "some people" are. The standard is not 
ambiguous, and while it is not readily available at no cost, it is widely 
described by many secondary sources.

Every NAN must compare unequal to every float, including itself.


> There has been disagreement about whether the standard mandates that
> Python behave the way it does. That is a fact, but I have no interest in
> discussing the issue.

I'm not entirely sure which behaviour of Python you are referring to 
here. If you choose not to reply, of course I can't force you to. It's 
your right to make ambiguous statements and then refuse to clarify what 
you are talking about.

If you are referring to *identity comparisons*, the IEEE 754 says nothing 
about object identity, so it has no bearing on Python's `is` operator.

If you are referring to the fact that `nan != nan` in Python, that is 
mandated by the IEEE 754 standard. I can't imagine who maintains that the 
standard doesn't mandate that; as I said, the disagreement that I have 
seen is whether or not to follow the standard, not on what the standard 
says.

If you are referring to something else, I don't know what it is.



-- 
Steven


From dloewenherz at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 11:29:54 2012
From: dloewenherz at gmail.com (Dan Loewenherz)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 08:29:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <7x7gqdzs1i.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2803.1351119286.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2807.1351121989.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6apaa$eid$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<mailman.2854.1351183039.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6c8kh$lqj$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<f3e3c344-8a7d-46f7-b499-144775c7f9aa@googlegroups.com>
	<7x7gqdzs1i.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <31566ce7-bfba-4bcb-aecf-2586ec579390@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 25, 2012 11:06:01 PM UTC-7, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Dan Loewenherz <dloewenherz at gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > In this case, profile_id is "None" when the loop breaks. It would be
> 
> > much more straightforward (and more Pythonic, IMO), to write:
> 
> >
> 
> >     client = StrictRedis()
> 
> >     while client.spop("profile_ids") as profile_id:
> 
> >         print profile_id
> 
> 
> 
> That is pretty loose, in my opinion.  If the loop is supposed to return
> 
> a string until breaking on None, the break test should explicitly check
> 
> for None rather than rely on an implicit bool conversion that will also
> 
> test as false on an empty string.  Code that handles strings should do
> 
> the right thing with the empty string.  What you posted relies on an
> 
> unstated assumption that the strings that come back are never empty.
> 

I think this is a good point. However, I can't think of any situation where I'd want to work with an empty string (in the applications I've worked with, at least).

We also don't special case things like this just because x is an empty string. If this "while EXPR as VAR" thing were to move forward, we shouldn't treat the truth testing any differently than how we already do. IMO we should write our applications with the understanding that '' will return False and work with that.

Here's a workaround BTW. Just have that method return a tuple, and do the truth testing yourself if you feel it's necessary.

    while client.spop("profile_ids") as truthy, profile_id:
        if not truthy:
            break

        print profile_id

Here, client.spop returns a tuple, which will always returns true. We then extract the first element and run a truth test on it. The function we use is in charge of determining the truthiness.

Dan


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 11:42:28 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 09:42:28 -0600
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <31566ce7-bfba-4bcb-aecf-2586ec579390@googlegroups.com>
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2803.1351119286.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2807.1351121989.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6apaa$eid$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<mailman.2854.1351183039.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6c8kh$lqj$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<f3e3c344-8a7d-46f7-b499-144775c7f9aa@googlegroups.com>
	<7x7gqdzs1i.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<31566ce7-bfba-4bcb-aecf-2586ec579390@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=UihEqAZtWjJ52kkfESbTYAp8St=aBO8Q_8ONUsnTfXg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 9:29 AM, Dan Loewenherz <dloewenherz at gmail.com> wrote:
>     while client.spop("profile_ids") as truthy, profile_id:
>         if not truthy:
>             break
>
>         print profile_id
>
> Here, client.spop returns a tuple, which will always returns true. We then extract the first element and run a truth test on it. The function we use is in charge of determining the truthiness.

I don't like the idea of testing the first element.  There's a large
element of surprise in doing that, I think.  I would expect the truth
test to be the same with or without the existence of the "as" clause
there.  That is, you should be able to remove the "as" clause and have
exactly the same behavior, just without the assignments.  So it would
need to test the entire tuple.

That brings up an interesting additional question in my mind, though.
Should the while loop syntax attempt to perform the assignment on the
very last test, when the expression is false?  I think there is a good
argument for doing so, as it will allow additional inspection of the
false value, if necessary.  In the above, though, if the return value
is false (an empty tuple or None) then the assignment would fail
during unpacking, raising an exception.


From casevh at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 11:42:54 2012
From: casevh at gmail.com (casevh at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 08:42:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2846.1351176984.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2846.1351176984.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0a70ae3c-5058-4b12-89c7-30a27aa8baa8@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 25, 2012 7:56:25 AM UTC-7, Charles Hixson wrote:
> In Python3 is there any good way to count the number of on bits in an 
> integer (after an & operation)?

You may want to look at gmpy2[1] and the popcount() function.

> 
> Alternatively, is there any VERY light-weight implementation of a bit 
> set?  I'd prefer to use integers, as I'm probably going to need 
> thousands of these, if the tests work out.  But before I can test, I 
> need a decent bit counter.  (shift, xor, &, and | are already present 
> for integer values, but I also need to count the number of "true" items 
> after the logical operation.  So if a bitset is the correct approach, 
> 

Whether or not gmpy2 is considered light-weight is debateable. :)

> I'll need it to implement those operations, or their equivalents in 
> terms of union and intersection.)
> 
> 
> 
> Or do I need to drop into C for this?
> 

[1] http://code.google.com/p/gmpy/

> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Charles Hixson



From casevh at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 11:42:54 2012
From: casevh at gmail.com (casevh at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 08:42:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2846.1351176984.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2846.1351176984.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0a70ae3c-5058-4b12-89c7-30a27aa8baa8@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, October 25, 2012 7:56:25 AM UTC-7, Charles Hixson wrote:
> In Python3 is there any good way to count the number of on bits in an 
> integer (after an & operation)?

You may want to look at gmpy2[1] and the popcount() function.

> 
> Alternatively, is there any VERY light-weight implementation of a bit 
> set?  I'd prefer to use integers, as I'm probably going to need 
> thousands of these, if the tests work out.  But before I can test, I 
> need a decent bit counter.  (shift, xor, &, and | are already present 
> for integer values, but I also need to count the number of "true" items 
> after the logical operation.  So if a bitset is the correct approach, 
> 

Whether or not gmpy2 is considered light-weight is debateable. :)

> I'll need it to implement those operations, or their equivalents in 
> terms of union and intersection.)
> 
> 
> 
> Or do I need to drop into C for this?
> 

[1] http://code.google.com/p/gmpy/

> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Charles Hixson



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Fri Oct 26 12:10:58 2012
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 09:10:58 -0700
Subject: while expression feature proposal
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2803.1351119286.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2807.1351121989.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6apaa$eid$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<mailman.2854.1351183039.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6c8kh$lqj$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<f3e3c344-8a7d-46f7-b499-144775c7f9aa@googlegroups.com>
	<7x7gqdzs1i.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<31566ce7-bfba-4bcb-aecf-2586ec579390@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xlietjjsd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dan Loewenherz <dloewenherz at gmail.com> writes:
> We also don't special case things like this just because x is an empty
> string. If this "while EXPR as VAR" thing were to move forward, we
> shouldn't treat the truth testing any differently than how we already
> do. IMO we should write our applications with the understanding that
> '' will return False and work with that.

We don't "already" treat the truth testing any particular way because we
don't have this construction in the language at the moment.  However,
it's well-established in Python that converting a string to a bool
results in False iff the string is empty.

The empty string is a perfectly good string and code that deals with
strings should handle the empty string properly, unless it knows the
string won't be empty.  Basic modularity principles say to avoid putting
such knowledge into more of the code than necessary.  

The conclusion is to not automatically convert the parameter to a bool.
However, if the "as" can be part of an expression as in Chris Angelico's
post, Chris's suggestion

     while (client.spop("profile_ids") as profile_id) is not None:
         print profile_id

looks good to me.

>     while client.spop("profile_ids") as truthy, profile_id:
>         if not truthy:
>             break

This is ugly on two levels.  First of all, if the .spop() still returns
None at the end of the input, the tuple unpacking will fail.  Second,
the separate test and break defeats the purpose of the "while ... as"
construction.  Might as well use the current style of assignment and
test inside the loop.


From hgruenheidt at t-online.de  Fri Oct 26 12:21:19 2012
From: hgruenheidt at t-online.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Hubert_Gr=FCnheidt?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 18:21:19 +0200
Subject: better way for ' '.join(args) + '\n'?
In-Reply-To: <utrpl9-udk.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <utrpl9-udk.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <k6ed9j$bq8$1@news.albasani.net>

Hi Ulrich,

is this acceptable?

     args = ['foo', 'bar', 'baz']
     args.append('\n')
     line = ' '.join(args)

Cheers,
       Hubert

On 10/26/2012 09:49 AM, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> Hi!
>
> General advise when assembling strings is to not concatenate them
> repeatedly but instead use string's join() function, because it avoids
> repeated reallocations and is at least as expressive as any alternative.
>
> What I have now is a case where I'm assembling lines of text for driving
> a program with a commandline interface. In this scenario, I'm currently
> doing this:
>
>    args = ['foo', 'bar', 'baz']
>    line = ' '.join(args) + '\n'
>
> So, in other words, I'm avoiding all the unnecessary copying, just to
> make another copy to append the final newline.
>
> The only way around this that I found involves creating an intermediate
> sequence like ['foo', ' ', 'bar', ' ', 'baz', '\n']. This can be done
> rather cleanly with a generator:
>
>    def helper(s):
>        for i in s[:-1]:
>             yield i
>             yield ' '
>        yield s[-1]
>        yield '\n'
>    line = ''.join(tmp(args))
>
> Efficiency-wise, this is satisfactory. However, readability counts and
> that is where this version fails and that is the reason why I'm writing
> this message. So, dear fellow Pythonistas, any ideas to improve the
> original versions efficiency while preserving its expressiveness?
>
> Oh, for all those that are tempted to tell me that this is not my
> bottleneck unless it's called in a very tight loop, you're right.
> Indeed, the overhead of the communication channel TCP between the two
> programs is by far dwarving the few microseconds I could save here. I'm
> still interested in learning new and better solutions though.
>
>
> Cheers!
>
> Uli
>



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Oct 26 12:23:51 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Oct 2012 16:23:51 GMT
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
	<k6cr4c$4md$1@ger.gmane.org> <5089F33A.8010804@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<mailman.2886.1351238424.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <508ab917$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 04:00:03 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:

> On 10/25/2012 10:19 PM, MRAB wrote:

>> In summary, .index() looks for an item which is equal to its argument,
>> but it's a feature of NaN (as defined by the standard) that it doesn't
>> equal NaN, therefore .index() will never find it.
> 
> Except that is *does* find the particular nan object that is in the
> collection. So nan in collection and list.index(nan) look for the nan by
> identity, not equality.

So it does. I made the same mistake as MRAB, thank you for the correction.



> This inconsistency is an intentional decision to
> not propagate the insanity of nan != nan to Python collections.

That's a value judgement about NANs which is not shared by everyone.

Quite frankly, I consider it an ignorant opinion about NANs, despite what 
Bertrand Meyer thinks. Reflectivity is an important property, but it is 
not the only important property and it is not even the most important 
property of numbers. There are far worse problems with floats than the 
non-reflexivity of NANs.

Since it is impossible to have a fixed-size numeric type that satisfies 
*all* of the properties of real numbers, some properties must be broken. 
I can only imagine that the reason Meyer, and presumably you, think that 
the loss of reflexivity is more "insane" than the other violations of 
floating point numbers is due to unfamiliarity. (And note that I said 
*numbers*, not NANs.)

Anyone who has used a pocket calculator will be used to floating point 
calculations being wrong, so much so that most people don't even think 
about it. They just expect numeric calculations to be off by a little, 
and don't give it any further thought. But NANs freak them out because 
they're different.

In real life, you are *much* more likely to run into these examples of 
"insanity" of floats than to be troubled by NANs:

- associativity of addition is lost
- distributivity of multiplication is lost
- commutativity of addition is lost
- not all floats have an inverse

e.g. 

(0.1 + 0.2) + 0.3 != 0.1 + (0.2 + 0.3)

1e6*(1.1 + 2.2) != 1e6*1.1 + 1e6*2.2

1e10 + 0.1 + -1e10 != 1e10 + -1e10 + 0.1

1/(1/49.0) != 49.0

Such violations of the rules of real arithmetic aren't even hard to find. 
They're everywhere.

In practical terms, those sorts of errors are *far* more significant in 
computational mathematics than the loss of reflexivity. I can't think of 
the last time I've cared that x is not necessarily equal to x in a 
floating point calculation, but the types of errors shown above are 
*constantly* effecting computations and leading to loss of precision or 
even completely wrong answers.

Once NANs were introduced, keeping reflexivity would lead to even worse 
situations than x != x. It would lead to nonsense identities like 
log(-1) ==log(-2), hence 1 == 2.


-- 
Steven


From charleshixsn at earthlink.net  Fri Oct 26 12:30:21 2012
From: charleshixsn at earthlink.net (Charles Hixson)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 09:30:21 -0700
Subject: bit count or bit set && Python3
In-Reply-To: <0a70ae3c-5058-4b12-89c7-30a27aa8baa8@googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.2846.1351176984.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<0a70ae3c-5058-4b12-89c7-30a27aa8baa8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <508ABA9D.80701@earthlink.net>

casevh at gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, October 25, 2012 7:56:25 AM UTC-7, Charles Hixson wrote:
>> In Python3 is there any good way to count the number of on bits in an
>> integer (after an&  operation)?
> You may want to look at gmpy2[1] and the popcount() function.
>
>> Alternatively, is there any VERY light-weight implementation of a bit
>> set?  I'd prefer to use integers, as I'm probably going to need
>> thousands of these, if the tests work out.  But before I can test, I
>> need a decent bit counter.  (shift, xor,&, and | are already present
>> for integer values, but I also need to count the number of "true" items
>> after the logical operation.  So if a bitset is the correct approach,
>>
> Whether or not gmpy2 is considered light-weight is debateable. :)
>
>> I'll need it to implement those operations, or their equivalents in
>> terms of union and intersection.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Or do I need to drop into C for this?
>>
> [1] http://code.google.com/p/gmpy/
>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Charles Hixson
I can see many times when that would be useful, but for this particular 
case I think that bin(val).count("1") is probably the better solution.  
The other options that I need are already available directly in integer 
numbers, and I will be surprised if I need more than a 32-bit set, so 
integers should be a reasonable approach.  It doesn't seem to have the 
overhead that I feared a string conversion would have (possibly because 
converting an integer to a bit string is trivial),  so I don't think 
that gmpy would add value to this program.

Next I need to decide about weak pointers, and then shelve vs. 
tokyocabinet.  (I sort of don't like shelve, because of its use of 
pickle, with the attendent security risks.  OTOH, the file will be local 
to the computer, not going over the net, which minimizes that.  Still, I 
may decide to reimplement it using ast.literal_eval, as I'm not 
intending to store anything that it won't handle.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Oct 26 12:43:08 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 17:43:08 +0100
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
In-Reply-To: <508ab917$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
	<k6cr4c$4md$1@ger.gmane.org> <5089F33A.8010804@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<mailman.2886.1351238424.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508ab917$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <508ABD9C.8070900@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-26 17:23, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 04:00:03 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
>
>> On 10/25/2012 10:19 PM, MRAB wrote:
>
>>> In summary, .index() looks for an item which is equal to its argument,
>>> but it's a feature of NaN (as defined by the standard) that it doesn't
>>> equal NaN, therefore .index() will never find it.
>>
>> Except that is *does* find the particular nan object that is in the
>> collection. So nan in collection and list.index(nan) look for the nan by
>> identity, not equality.
>
> So it does. I made the same mistake as MRAB, thank you for the correction.
>
[snip]
Yes, I forgot that Python checks for identity before checking for
equality:

 >>> [float("nan")].index(float("nan"))
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<pyshell#0>", line 1, in <module>
     [float("nan")].index(float("nan"))
ValueError: nan is not in list
 >>> nan = float("nan")
 >>> [nan].index(nan)
0



From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 12:45:46 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 03:45:46 +1100
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
In-Reply-To: <508ab917$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
	<k6cr4c$4md$1@ger.gmane.org> <5089F33A.8010804@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<mailman.2886.1351238424.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508ab917$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqH3o+Qv62YyNoyzEYQ0VOh3t3zaVL28EUURJWdr6xgHw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 3:23 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> In real life, you are *much* more likely to run into these examples of
> "insanity" of floats than to be troubled by NANs:
>
> - associativity of addition is lost
> - distributivity of multiplication is lost
> - commutativity of addition is lost
> - not all floats have an inverse
>
> e.g.
>
> (0.1 + 0.2) + 0.3 != 0.1 + (0.2 + 0.3)
>
> 1e6*(1.1 + 2.2) != 1e6*1.1 + 1e6*2.2
>
> 1e10 + 0.1 + -1e10 != 1e10 + -1e10 + 0.1
>
> 1/(1/49.0) != 49.0
>
> Such violations of the rules of real arithmetic aren't even hard to find.
> They're everywhere.

Actually, as I see it, there's only one principle to take note of: the
"HMS Pinafore Floating Point Rule"...

** Floating point expressions should never be tested for equality **
** What, never? **
** Well, hardly ever! **

The problem isn't with the associativity, it's with the equality
comparison. Replace "x == y" with "abs(x-y)<epsilon" for some epsilon
and all your statements fulfill people's expectations. (Possibly with
the exception of "1e10 + 0.1 + -1e10" as it's going to be hard for an
automated algorithm to pick a useful epsilon. But it still works.)
Ultimately, it's the old problem of significant digits. Usually it
only comes up with measured quantities, but this is ultimately the
same issue. Doing calculations to greater precision than the answer
warrants is fine, but when you come to compare, you effectively need
to round both values off to their actual precisions.

ChrisA


From jeff.jeffries.iii at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 12:58:58 2012
From: jeff.jeffries.iii at gmail.com (Jeff Jeffries)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 12:58:58 -0400
Subject: Recommended way to unpack keyword arguments using **kwargs ?
Message-ID: <CANNB2xteri_DDGGVt-OvkU0mj1LhNBMz5wnctEqJmhorwQqeOQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have been doing the following to keep my class declarations short:

class MyClass(MyOtherClass):
    def __init__(self,*args,**kwargs):
        self.MyAttr = kwargs.get('Attribute',None) #To get a default
        MyOtherClass.__init__(self,*args,**kwargs)

Is there a recommended way to get keyword arguments (or default) when using
** notation?

-- 
Cheerios,
Jeff Jeffries III
CFO: www.touchmycake.com <http://www.willyoubemyfriend.com>
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From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 13:13:05 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 11:13:05 -0600
Subject: Recommended way to unpack keyword arguments using **kwargs ?
In-Reply-To: <CANNB2xteri_DDGGVt-OvkU0mj1LhNBMz5wnctEqJmhorwQqeOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANNB2xteri_DDGGVt-OvkU0mj1LhNBMz5wnctEqJmhorwQqeOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmLxVSNhwr-r1_reHbNWxoL7i=NGO4NQeoDb1JtpmnB7w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 10:58 AM, Jeff Jeffries
<jeff.jeffries.iii at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been doing the following to keep my class declarations short:
>
> class MyClass(MyOtherClass):
>     def __init__(self,*args,**kwargs):
>         self.MyAttr = kwargs.get('Attribute',None) #To get a default
>         MyOtherClass.__init__(self,*args,**kwargs)
>
> Is there a recommended way to get keyword arguments (or default) when using
> ** notation?

It's better form to use .pop() instead of .get(), as if MyClass is
receiving the argument then MyOtherClass is probably not expecting it.

If using Python 3, you can use the keyword-only argument syntax:

def __init__(self, *args, attribute=None, **kwargs):
    # Do something with attribute
    MyOtherClass.__init__(self, *args, **kwargs)


Either way, you should really only do this when there are a large
number of possible arguments or you don't really know what arguments
to expect.  When practical to do so, it is preferable to explicitly
list the arguments so that the method signature can be inspected, e.g.
by the help() command.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Oct 26 14:40:55 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Oct 2012 18:40:55 GMT
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
	<k6cr4c$4md$1@ger.gmane.org> <5089F33A.8010804@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<mailman.2886.1351238424.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508ab917$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2898.1351269949.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <508ad937$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 03:45:46 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 3:23 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> In real life, you are *much* more likely to run into these examples of
>> "insanity" of floats than to be troubled by NANs:
>>
>> - associativity of addition is lost
>> - distributivity of multiplication is lost 
>> - commutativity of addition is lost
>> - not all floats have an inverse
>>
>> e.g.
>>
>> (0.1 + 0.2) + 0.3 != 0.1 + (0.2 + 0.3)
>>
>> 1e6*(1.1 + 2.2) != 1e6*1.1 + 1e6*2.2
>>
>> 1e10 + 0.1 + -1e10 != 1e10 + -1e10 + 0.1
>>
>> 1/(1/49.0) != 49.0
>>
>> Such violations of the rules of real arithmetic aren't even hard to
>> find. They're everywhere.
> 
> Actually, as I see it, there's only one principle to take note of: the
> "HMS Pinafore Floating Point Rule"...
> 
> ** Floating point expressions should never be tested for equality ** 
> ** What, never? **
> ** Well, hardly ever! **
> 
> The problem isn't with the associativity, it's with the equality
> comparison. Replace "x == y" with "abs(x-y)<epsilon" for some epsilon
> and all your statements fulfill people's expectations.

O RYLY?

Would you care to tell us which epsilon they should use?

Hint: *whatever* epsilon you pick, there will be cases where that is 
either stupidly too small, stupidly too large, or one that degenerates to 
float equality. And you may not be able to tell if you have one of those 
cases or not.

Here's a concrete example for you: 

What *single* value of epsilon should you pick such that the following 
two expressions evaluate correctly?

sum([1e20, 0.1, -1e20, 0.1]*1000) == 200
sum([1e20, 99.9, -1e20, 0.1]*1000) != 200


The advice "never test floats for equality" is:

(1) pointless without a good way to know what epsilon they should use;

(2) sheer superstition since there are cases where testing floats for 
equality is the right thing to do (although I note you dodged that bullet 
with "hardly ever" *wink*);

and most importantly

(3) missing the point, since the violations of the rules of real-valued 
mathematics still occur regardless of whether you explicitly test for 
equality or not.

For instance, if you write:

result = a + (b + c)

some compilers may assume associativity and calculate (a + b) + c 
instead. But that is not guaranteed to give the same result! (K&R allowed 
C compilers to do that; the subsequent ANSI C standard prohibited re-
ordering, but in practice most C compilers provide a switch to allow it.)

A real-world example: Python's math.fsum is a high-precision summation 
with error compensation based on the Kahan summation algorithm. Here's a 
pseudo-code version:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahan_summation_algorithm

which includes the steps:

t = sum + y;
c = (t - sum) - y;

A little bit of algebra should tell you that c must equal zero. 
Unfortunately, in this case algebra is wrong, because floats are not real 
numbers. c is not necessarily zero.

An optimizing compiler, or an optimizing programmer, might very well 
eliminate those calculations and so inadvertently eliminate the error 
compensation. And not an equals sign in sight.



-- 
Steven


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Oct 26 14:49:51 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 14:49:51 -0400
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
In-Reply-To: <508aab92$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2873.1351217113.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5089f915$0$29984$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2885.1351238073.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508aab92$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <k6em0k$efe$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/26/2012 11:26 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 03:54:02 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
>
>> On 10/25/2012 10:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 22:04:52 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
>>>
>>>> It is a consequence of the following, which some people (but not all)
>>>> believe is mandated by the IEEE standard.
>>>>
>>>>    >>> nan = float('nan')
>>>>    >>> nan is nan
>>>> True
>>>
>>> The IEEE 754 standard says nothing about object identity. It only
>>> discusses value equality.
>>>
>>>>    >>> nan == nan
>>>> False
>>>
>>> IEEE 754 states that all NANs compare unequal to everything, including
>>> NANs with the same bit value. It doesn't make an exception for
>>> comparisons with itself.
>>>
>>> I'm not entirely sure why you suggest that there is an argument about
>>> what IEEE 754 says about NANs.
>>
>> I did not do so.
>
> I'm afraid you did. Your quote is shown above, and repeated here:

The quote precedes and refers to Python code.

>
> "... some people (but not all) believe is mandated by the IEEE standard"
>
> This suggests that there is a disagreement -- an argument -- about what
> the IEEE standard mandates about NANs.

Disagreement about what Python should do has been expressed on the lists 
and even on the tracker. There was one discussion on python-ideas within 
the last month, another a year or so ago.

Python does not implement the full IEEE standard with signalling and 
non-signalling nans and multiple bit patterns.

When a nan is put in a Python collection, it is in effect treated as if 
it were equal to itself.
See the discussion in http://bugs.python.org/issue4296
including "I'm not sure that Python should be asked to guarantee
anything more than "b == b" returning False when b is
a NaN.  It wouldn't seem unreasonable to consider
behavior of nans in containers (sets, lists, dicts)
as undefined when it comes to equality and identity
checks."



-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From ralf at systemexit.de  Fri Oct 26 14:53:00 2012
From: ralf at systemexit.de (Ralf Schmitt)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 20:53:00 +0200
Subject: [ANN] pypiserver 1.0.0 - minimal private pypi server
Message-ID: <87625xjcab.fsf@myhost.lan>

Hi,

I've just uploaded pypiserver 1.0.0 to the python package index.

pypiserver is a minimal PyPI compatible server. It can be used to serve
a set of packages and eggs to easy_install or pip.

pypiserver is easy to install (i.e. just 'pip install pypiserver'). It
doesn't have any external dependencies.

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pypiserver/ should contain enough
information to easily get you started running your own PyPI server in a
few minutes.

The code is available on github: https://github.com/schmir/pypiserver

Changes in version 1.0.0
------------------------
- add passlib and waitress to pypi-server-standalone
- upgrade bottle to 0.11.3
- Update scripts/opensuse/pypiserver.init
- Refuse to re upload existing file
- Add 'console_scripts' section to 'entry_points', so
  'pypi-server.exe' will be created on Windows.
- paste_app_factory now use the the password_file option to create the
  app. Without this the package upload was not working.
- Add --fallback-url argument to pypi-server script to make it
  configurable.

-- 
Cheers
Ralf


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Oct 26 14:58:29 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 14:58:29 -0400
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
In-Reply-To: <508ab917$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
	<k6cr4c$4md$1@ger.gmane.org> <5089F33A.8010804@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<mailman.2886.1351238424.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508ab917$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <k6emgr$iru$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/26/2012 12:23 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 04:00:03 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:

>> This inconsistency is an intentional decision to
>> not propagate the insanity of nan != nan to Python collections.
>
> That's a value judgement about NANs which is not shared by everyone.
>
> Quite frankly, I consider it an ignorant opinion about NANs, despite what
> Bertrand Meyer thinks. Reflectivity is an important property, but it is
> not the only important property and it is not even the most important
> property of numbers.

Reflexivity is one of the definitional properties of the mathematical 
equality relationship and of equivalence relationships in general. It is 
not specific to numbers. It is assumed by the concept and definition of 
sets.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 15:17:37 2012
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 15:17:37 -0400
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
In-Reply-To: <508ad937$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
	<k6cr4c$4md$1@ger.gmane.org> <5089F33A.8010804@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<mailman.2886.1351238424.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508ab917$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2898.1351269949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508ad937$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJKO9aELWHiogAjMUsVAZY2Ecwm-njs8a3YiosB7kisjWQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> The problem isn't with the associativity, it's with the equality
>> comparison. Replace "x == y" with "abs(x-y)<epsilon" for some epsilon
>> and all your statements fulfill people's expectations.
>
> O RYLY?
>
> Would you care to tell us which epsilon they should use?

I would assume some epsilon that bounds the error of their
computation. Which one to use would depend on the error propagation
their function incurs.

That said, I also disagree with the sentiment "all your statements
fulfill people's expectations". Comparing to be within some epsilon of
each other may mean that some things that are the result of
mathematically unequal expressions, will be called equal because they
are very close to each other by accident. Unless perhaps completely
tight bounds on error can be achieved? I've never seen anyone do this,
but maybe it's reasonable.

> Hint: *whatever* epsilon you pick, there will be cases where that is
> either stupidly too small, stupidly too large, or one that degenerates to
> float equality. And you may not be able to tell if you have one of those
> cases or not.
>
> Here's a concrete example for you:
>
> What *single* value of epsilon should you pick such that the following
> two expressions evaluate correctly?
>
> sum([1e20, 0.1, -1e20, 0.1]*1000) == 200
> sum([1e20, 99.9, -1e20, 0.1]*1000) != 200

Some computations have unbounded error, such as computations where
catastrophic cancellation can occur. That doesn't mean all
computations do. For many computations, you can find a single epsilon
that will always return True for things that "should" be equal, but
aren't -- for example, squaring a number does no worse than tripling
the relative error, so if you square a number that was accurate to
within machine epsilon, and want to compare it to a constant, you can
compare with relative epsilon = 3*machine_epsilon.

I'm not sure how commonly this occurs in real life, because I'm not a
numerical programmer. All I know is that your example is good, but
shows a not-universally-applicable problem.

It is, however, still pretty applicable and worth noting, so I'm not
unhappy you did. For example, how large can the absolute error of the
sin function applied to a float be? Answer: as large as 2, and the
relative error can be arbitrarily large. (Reason: error scales with
the input, but the frequency of the sin function does not.)

(In case you can't tell, I only have studied this stuff as a student. :P)

-- Devin


From tycho at tycho.ws  Fri Oct 26 17:26:02 2012
From: tycho at tycho.ws (Tycho Andersen)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 16:26:02 -0500
Subject: better way for ' '.join(args) + '\n'?
In-Reply-To: <utrpl9-udk.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <utrpl9-udk.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <20121026212602.GE25893@ccapuser-ubuntu.WICOURTS.GOV>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 09:49:50AM +0200, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> General advise when assembling strings is to not concatenate them
> repeatedly but instead use string's join() function, because it
> avoids repeated reallocations and is at least as expressive as any
> alternative.
> 
> What I have now is a case where I'm assembling lines of text for
> driving a program with a commandline interface. In this scenario,
> I'm currently doing this:
> 
>   args = ['foo', 'bar', 'baz']
>   line = ' '.join(args) + '\n'

Assuming it's the length of the list that's the problem, not the
length of the strings in the list...

args = ['foo', 'bar', 'baz']
args[-1] = args[-1] + '\n'
line = ' '.join(args)

\t


From d at davea.name  Fri Oct 26 17:36:50 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 17:36:50 -0400
Subject: better way for ' '.join(args) + '\n'?
In-Reply-To: <20121026212602.GE25893@ccapuser-ubuntu.WICOURTS.GOV>
References: <utrpl9-udk.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<20121026212602.GE25893@ccapuser-ubuntu.WICOURTS.GOV>
Message-ID: <508B0272.2020003@davea.name>

On 10/26/2012 05:26 PM, Tycho Andersen wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 09:49:50AM +0200, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>> General advise when assembling strings is to not concatenate them
>> repeatedly but instead use string's join() function, because it
>> avoids repeated reallocations and is at least as expressive as any
>> alternative.
>>
>> What I have now is a case where I'm assembling lines of text for
>> driving a program with a commandline interface. In this scenario,
>> I'm currently doing this:
>>
>>   args = ['foo', 'bar', 'baz']
>>   line = ' '.join(args) + '\n'
> Assuming it's the length of the list that's the problem, not the
> length of the strings in the list...
>
> args = ['foo', 'bar', 'baz']
> args[-1] = args[-1] + '\n'
> line = ' '.join(args)
>
> \t

Main problem with that is the trailing space before the newline.  If
that's not a problem, then fine.

Not sure why we try so hard to optimize something that's going to take
negligible time.

-- 

DaveA



From tycho at tycho.ws  Fri Oct 26 17:42:17 2012
From: tycho at tycho.ws (Tycho Andersen)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 16:42:17 -0500
Subject: better way for ' '.join(args) + '\n'?
In-Reply-To: <508B0272.2020003@davea.name>
References: <utrpl9-udk.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<20121026212602.GE25893@ccapuser-ubuntu.WICOURTS.GOV>
	<508B0272.2020003@davea.name>
Message-ID: <20121026214217.GF25893@ccapuser-ubuntu.WICOURTS.GOV>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 05:36:50PM -0400, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 10/26/2012 05:26 PM, Tycho Andersen wrote:
> > Assuming it's the length of the list that's the problem, not the
> > length of the strings in the list...
> >
> > args = ['foo', 'bar', 'baz']
> > args[-1] = args[-1] + '\n'
> > line = ' '.join(args)
> >
> > \t
> 
> Main problem with that is the trailing space before the newline.  If
> that's not a problem, then fine.

What trailing space before the newline? The other solutions have it,
the above does not. However, the above does mutate args, which isn't
all that great. Alas, if you want the performance of mutable
structures, you're probably going to have to mutate something. (In any
case, it's easy enough to change it back, though ugly.)

> Not sure why we try so hard to optimize something that's going to take
> negligible time.

The same reason some people enjoy sporting events: it's fun :-)

\t


From kurabas at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 18:01:43 2012
From: kurabas at gmail.com (kurabas at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 15:01:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to set 250000 baud rate in pyserial ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2858.1351188682.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <d5871091-63c8-4582-9485-138195cf6d36@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2858.1351188682.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10b2bbd7-c2b5-409e-be83-bd11948e16a8@googlegroups.com>

Error is like cannot set special baud rate.
But as I said pyserial set this speed without problem  for ttyUSB0
So it seems pyserial uses diefferent code depending of port type.
I tried to simlink ln -s ttyACM0 ttyUSB0 but it does not work


On Thursday, October 25, 2012 9:11:23 PM UTC+3, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 04:09:56 -0700 (PDT), kurabas at gmail.com declaimed
> 
> the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
> 
> 
> > I use Arduino 1280 and Arduino 2560 under Fedora 15. 
> 
> > 1280 creates ttyUSB0 port  and can be set at 2500000 successfully.
> 
> > 2560 creates ttyACM0 port and can be only set at speeds from list (no 250000) in pyserial. How to set 250000 to ttyACM0 port?? Need I patch kernel or python?
> 
> 
> 
> 	You don't say what error you are receiving but looking at the source
> 
> (serialposix.py) implies that it accepts nearly anything on Linux, and
> 
> relies on the OS returning a success/failure if the value is allowed or
> 
> not. 
> 
> 
> 
> 	xxxBSD, SunOS, HPUX, IRIX, and CYGWIN systems don't allow "special"
> 
> baudrates at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 	.NET, JVM, and Windows don't seem to have explicit call outs for bad
> 
> rates -- just a generic port configured OK test.
> 
> -- 
> 
> 	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
> 
>         wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/



From kurabas at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 18:01:43 2012
From: kurabas at gmail.com (kurabas at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 15:01:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to set 250000 baud rate in pyserial ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2858.1351188682.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <d5871091-63c8-4582-9485-138195cf6d36@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2858.1351188682.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10b2bbd7-c2b5-409e-be83-bd11948e16a8@googlegroups.com>

Error is like cannot set special baud rate.
But as I said pyserial set this speed without problem  for ttyUSB0
So it seems pyserial uses diefferent code depending of port type.
I tried to simlink ln -s ttyACM0 ttyUSB0 but it does not work


On Thursday, October 25, 2012 9:11:23 PM UTC+3, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 04:09:56 -0700 (PDT), kurabas at gmail.com declaimed
> 
> the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
> 
> 
> > I use Arduino 1280 and Arduino 2560 under Fedora 15. 
> 
> > 1280 creates ttyUSB0 port  and can be set at 2500000 successfully.
> 
> > 2560 creates ttyACM0 port and can be only set at speeds from list (no 250000) in pyserial. How to set 250000 to ttyACM0 port?? Need I patch kernel or python?
> 
> 
> 
> 	You don't say what error you are receiving but looking at the source
> 
> (serialposix.py) implies that it accepts nearly anything on Linux, and
> 
> relies on the OS returning a success/failure if the value is allowed or
> 
> not. 
> 
> 
> 
> 	xxxBSD, SunOS, HPUX, IRIX, and CYGWIN systems don't allow "special"
> 
> baudrates at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 	.NET, JVM, and Windows don't seem to have explicit call outs for bad
> 
> rates -- just a generic port configured OK test.
> 
> -- 
> 
> 	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
> 
>         wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/



From cs at zip.com.au  Fri Oct 26 18:03:39 2012
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 09:03:39 +1100
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <7xlietjjsd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <7xlietjjsd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <20121026220338.GA25126@cskk.homeip.net>

On 26Oct2012 09:10, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
| However, if the "as" can be part of an expression as in Chris Angelico's
| post, Chris's suggestion
| 
|      while (client.spop("profile_ids") as profile_id) is not None:
|          print profile_id
| 
| looks good to me.

Now this pulls me from a -0 to a +0.5.

Instead of burdening the control constructs with further structure, make
"as" a binding operation for keeping intermediate results from expressions.

It will work anywhere an expression is allowed, and superficially
doesn't break stuff that exists if "as" has the lowest precedence.

Any doco would need to make it clear that no order of operation is
implied, so that this:

  x = 1
  y = (2 as x) + x

does not have a defined answer; might be 2, might be 3. Just like any
other function call with side effects.

Speaking for myself (of course!), I definitely prefer this to adding
"as" as a post expression struction on if/while/etc.

I'm not +1 because to my mind it still presents a way for
assignment/binding to not be glaringly obvious at the left hand side of
an expression.

It would probably mean folding the except/with "as" uses back into
expressions and out of the control-structural part of the grammar. I can't
see that that would actually break any existing code though - anyone else?

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that
would also stop you from doing clever things.   - Doug Gwyn


From torriem at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 18:08:05 2012
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 16:08:05 -0600
Subject: How to set 250000 baud rate in pyserial ?
In-Reply-To: <10b2bbd7-c2b5-409e-be83-bd11948e16a8@googlegroups.com>
References: <d5871091-63c8-4582-9485-138195cf6d36@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2858.1351188682.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<10b2bbd7-c2b5-409e-be83-bd11948e16a8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <508B09C5.7000203@gmail.com>

On 10/26/2012 04:01 PM, kurabas at gmail.com wrote:
> Error is like cannot set special baud rate. But as I said pyserial
> set this speed without problem  for ttyUSB0 So it seems pyserial uses
> diefferent code depending of port type. I tried to simlink ln -s
> ttyACM0 ttyUSB0 but it does not work

No the difference in how baud rate is set is most likely in the driver.
 pyserial just uses standard kernel apis and ioctls to control the device.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 18:48:05 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 16:48:05 -0600
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <20121026220338.GA25126@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <7xlietjjsd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<20121026220338.GA25126@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkM-XCmCvFF1-=X7oLvY+LXumMJmWo1Qz4F_mszvOizcg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
> It will work anywhere an expression is allowed, and superficially
> doesn't break stuff that exists if "as" has the lowest precedence.

Please, no.  There is no need for it outside of while expressions, and
anywhere else it's just going to be bad practice.  Even if it's
considered an expression, let's only allow it in while expressions.

> Any doco would need to make it clear that no order of operation is
> implied, so that this:
>
>   x = 1
>   y = (2 as x) + x
>
> does not have a defined answer; might be 2, might be 3. Just like any
> other function call with side effects.

Actually, the docs are clear that expressions are evaluated left to
right, so the expected result of the above would be 4.

> It would probably mean folding the except/with "as" uses back into
> expressions and out of the control-structural part of the grammar. I can't
> see that that would actually break any existing code though - anyone else?

Yes it would, because the meaning is a bit different in both of those
cases.  For except, the result of the expression (an exception class
or tuple of classes) is not stored in the target; the exception
*instance* is.  Similarly for with, the result of the expression is
not stored; the result of calling its __enter__ method is, which is
often but not always the same thing.


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 19:12:17 2012
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 19:12:17 -0400
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <f3e3c344-8a7d-46f7-b499-144775c7f9aa@googlegroups.com>
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2803.1351119286.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2807.1351121989.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6apaa$eid$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<mailman.2854.1351183039.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6c8kh$lqj$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<f3e3c344-8a7d-46f7-b499-144775c7f9aa@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJLOBAk7-MOCTP3p9pTfWMtvJperMbMmwdST6Mj3Vj3ziA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 1:12 AM, Dan Loewenherz <dloewenherz at gmail.com> wrote:
> It seems the topic of this thread has changed drastically from the original message.
>
> 1) "while EXPR as VAR" in no way says that EXPR must be a boolean value. In fact, a use case I've run into commonly in web development is popping from a redis set. E.g.
>
>     client = StrictRedis()
>     while True:
>         profile_id = client.spop("profile_ids")
>         if not profile_id:
>             break
>         print profile_id
>
> In this case, profile_id is "None" when the loop breaks. It would be much more straightforward (and more Pythonic, IMO), to write:
>
>     client = StrictRedis()
>     while client.spop("profile_ids") as profile_id:
>         print profile_id

For loops are pythonic. You can do this in Python today:

    client = StrictRedis()
    for profile_id in iter(lambda: client.spop("profile_ids"), None):
        pass

I would like a better iter(), rather than a better while loop. It is
irritating to pass in functions that take arguments, and it is
impossible to, say, pass in functions that should stop being iterated
over when they return _either_ a None or a, say, False.

-- Devin


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 19:19:42 2012
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 19:19:42 -0400
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqhw8w2G=vqHt=LpWejLFG16npgZk6CbBBG0d1CMnhAoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2803.1351119286.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2807.1351121989.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6apaa$eid$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<mailman.2854.1351183039.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6c8kh$lqj$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<f3e3c344-8a7d-46f7-b499-144775c7f9aa@googlegroups.com>
	<7x7gqdzs1i.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<CAPTjJmqhw8w2G=vqHt=LpWejLFG16npgZk6CbBBG0d1CMnhAoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJJ073VyhsikKsqF-AhLcriAKdfd8qoTAO3B0OAyYUT-mg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 2:23 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> while (client.spop("profile_ids") as profile_id) is not None:
>     print profile_id
>
> Why is everyone skirting around C-style assignment expressions as
> though they're simultaneously anathema and the goal? :)

Why should these two statements behave differently? :(

    with foo() as bar: bar.baz()
    with (foo() as bar): bar.baz()

I don't understand why everyone is so attached to this "as" syntax.
It's confusing because it behaves subtly differently than how it works
in "with", and it puts the variable on the wrong side of the
assignment operator.

(I've always been partial to ":=", personally.)

-- Devin


From sed at thechases.com  Fri Oct 26 19:26:26 2012
From: sed at thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 18:26:26 -0500
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <20121026220338.GA25126@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <7xlietjjsd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<20121026220338.GA25126@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <508B1C22.9080207@thechases.com>

On 10/26/12 17:03, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> On 26Oct2012 09:10, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> |      while (client.spop("profile_ids") as profile_id) is not None:
> 
> Now this pulls me from a -0 to a +0.5.
> 
> Any doco would need to make it clear that no order of operation is
> implied, so that this:
> 
>   x = 1
>   y = (2 as x) + x
> 
> does not have a defined answer; might be 2, might be 3. Just like any
> other function call with side effects.

I really don't like undefined (or underdefined) specs.  If it was to
be PEP'd out, I'd want to address as many edge cases as possible.
Such as

  y = (2 as x) + (3 as x) + (4 as x)
  y = (2 as x) + 4 as x
  y = booleanish and (2 as x) or (4 as x)
  y = booleanish and 2 or 4 as x
  y = (2 as x) if booleanish else (3 as x)
  y = (2 as x) if booleanish else (3 as z)

regardless of how "$PEJORATIVE, that's a dumb thing to do!" it is.

I hate C for how underdefined a lot of corners are. ("amongst my
hatreds of C are such diverse elements as: underdefined corners, a
pitiful standard library, the ease of shooting yourself in the foot,
...")

> I'm not +1 because to my mind it still presents a way for
> assignment/binding to not be glaringly obvious at the left hand side of
> an expression.

I think this is why I like it in the "while" (and could be twisted
into accepting it for "if") because it also introduces an
implied/actual scope for which the variable is intended.  In an
arbitrary evaluation/assignment, it's much easier to lose the
"definition" nature of it at the top of a block.

-tkc







From gelonida at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 19:39:36 2012
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 01:39:36 +0200
Subject: SSH Connection with Python
In-Reply-To: <CADg3d1O1N9S4wnLPvmXuLkp8nZNuJWofDV=g0Qy_nyt0X_KNgA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5089119A.2040902@globe.de> <508915BD.9050401@shopzeus.com>
	<CADg3d1O1N9S4wnLPvmXuLkp8nZNuJWofDV=g0Qy_nyt0X_KNgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508B1F38.7070108@gmail.com>

On 10/25/2012 12:47 PM, Kamlesh Mutha wrote:
> You can use paramiko module. Very easy to use.
>
>
>
I also use paramiko for a small script.

However I'm a little hesitant to use paramik for new code.

The web page says: "last updated 21-May-2011"

and the github url  http://github.com/robey/paramiko/
yields me a 404

However I didn't really find any alternative.
For cross platform scripts  (Linux / windows)
subprocess is not such a good alternative.


Another problem is, that paramiko depends on pycrypto 2.1+
which doesn't exist as binary release for python 2.7


Is fabric capable of performing scp / sftp

Is there any other library as alternative?



From dloewenherz at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 19:41:10 2012
From: dloewenherz at gmail.com (Dan Loewenherz)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 16:41:10 -0700
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJLOBAk7-MOCTP3p9pTfWMtvJperMbMmwdST6Mj3Vj3ziA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2803.1351119286.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2807.1351121989.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6apaa$eid$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<mailman.2854.1351183039.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6c8kh$lqj$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<f3e3c344-8a7d-46f7-b499-144775c7f9aa@googlegroups.com>
	<CABicbJLOBAk7-MOCTP3p9pTfWMtvJperMbMmwdST6Mj3Vj3ziA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOKWLrE-Uz7Q3mMo9N2-uHZOC3E7zW9BcMfoy6-MgwxKAcxoww@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 4:12 PM, Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda at gmail.com>wrote:

>
> For loops are pythonic. You can do this in Python today:
>
>     client = StrictRedis()
>     for profile_id in iter(lambda: client.spop("profile_ids"), None):
>         pass
>
> I would like a better iter(), rather than a better while loop. It is
> irritating to pass in functions that take arguments, and it is
> impossible to, say, pass in functions that should stop being iterated
> over when they return _either_ a None or a, say, False.
>

You can kind of do this by creating a class implementing __eq__ and passing
that in as the sentinal to the iter method.

    class FlexibleEquality(object):
        def __init__(self, *candidates):
            self.candidates = candidates

        def __eq__(self, other):
            return any(other == candidate for candidate in self.candidates)

    client = StrictRedis()
    for profile_id in iter(lambda: client.spop("profile_ids"),
FlexibleEquality(False, None)):
        pass

But this is yucky. I'd much rather have something a bit more clear to the
reader. The above is somewhat convoluted. I would far prefer for "while
EXPR as VAR" to run through the results of EXPR as an iterable and continue
the loop if any of the values in the iterable is truthy, maybe passing only
the first value of the iterable to VAR. Gives maximum flexibility with the
cleanest resulting code.

    >>> client.spop("profile_ids") # conditional succeeds, '123' passed to
profile_id
    '123', True
    >>> client.spop("profile_ids") # conditional succeeds, '' passed to
profile_id
    '', True
    >>> client.spop("profile_ids") # conditional fails
    '', False

Dan
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From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 19:41:52 2012
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 19:41:52 -0400
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <20121026220338.GA25126@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <7xlietjjsd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<20121026220338.GA25126@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <CABicbJJkbK4fop0GSb2bofMu1_6X0vVgku4bo1O51b63S0A5ZQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 6:03 PM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
> Any doco would need to make it clear that no order of operation is
> implied, so that this:
>
>   x = 1
>   y = (2 as x) + x
>
> does not have a defined answer; might be 2, might be 3. Just like any
> other function call with side effects.

But function calls with side effects _do_ have a defined order of
evaluation. Left to right. And the answer should be 4.

http://docs.python.org/reference/expressions.html#evaluation-order

>>> def set_(d, k, v):
...     d[k] = v
...     return v
...
>>> d = {}
>>> set_(d, 'x', 1)
1
>>> set_(d, 'y', set_(d, 'x', 2) + d['x'])
4

-- Devin


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 19:51:21 2012
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 19:51:21 -0400
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <CAOKWLrE-Uz7Q3mMo9N2-uHZOC3E7zW9BcMfoy6-MgwxKAcxoww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2803.1351119286.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2807.1351121989.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6apaa$eid$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<mailman.2854.1351183039.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6c8kh$lqj$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<f3e3c344-8a7d-46f7-b499-144775c7f9aa@googlegroups.com>
	<CABicbJLOBAk7-MOCTP3p9pTfWMtvJperMbMmwdST6Mj3Vj3ziA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOKWLrE-Uz7Q3mMo9N2-uHZOC3E7zW9BcMfoy6-MgwxKAcxoww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJKk8S3vKUyhpzYv7=638DvoFqkQZFGitF1qXyMLjY_Z9g@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Dan Loewenherz <dloewenherz at gmail.com> wrote:
-- snip insanity --
>
> But this is yucky. I'd much rather have something a bit more clear to the
> reader.

That's why I said I wanted a better iter, not some equality-overriding
object strawman thing.

I was thinking more like this:

    for profile_id in iter(None)(client.spop, "profile_ids"):

or alternatively:

    for profile_id in iter(bool)(client.spop, "profile_ids"):

Or perhaps either as keyword arguments (which is the only reason I
curried iter).

The interesting case for in-place assignment is not here. This is a
trivial case. It's in cases like this:

    while True:
        x = foo(bar())
        if x is None: break
        if x % 2 == 0: break

        print x

Imagine doing that with iter. :)

-- Devin


From cs at zip.com.au  Fri Oct 26 19:56:01 2012
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 10:56:01 +1100
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJJkbK4fop0GSb2bofMu1_6X0vVgku4bo1O51b63S0A5ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABicbJJkbK4fop0GSb2bofMu1_6X0vVgku4bo1O51b63S0A5ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121026235601.GA32598@cskk.homeip.net>

On 26Oct2012 19:41, Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda at gmail.com> wrote:
| On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 6:03 PM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
| > Any doco would need to make it clear that no order of operation is
| > implied, so that this:
| >
| >   x = 1
| >   y = (2 as x) + x
| >
| > does not have a defined answer; might be 2, might be 3. Just like any
| > other function call with side effects.
| 
| But function calls with side effects _do_ have a defined order of
| evaluation. Left to right.
| And the answer should be 4.
| http://docs.python.org/reference/expressions.html#evaluation-order

No. Separate _expressions_ are evaluated left to right.

So this:

  f(1), f(2)

calls "f(1)" first, then "f(2)". But this:

  f(1) + f(2)

need not do so. Counter-documentation welcomed, but the doco you cite
does not define an order for the second example above.

| 
| >>> def set_(d, k, v):
| ...     d[k] = v
| ...     return v
| ...
| >>> d = {}
| >>> set_(d, 'x', 1)
| 1
| >>> set_(d, 'y', set_(d, 'x', 2) + d['x'])
| 4

That may just be a coincidence of implementation - there's no special
reason to change the evaluation order form the lexical order there, but
expression optimisers should have a free hand generally.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

Acceptance Testing: Dropping your mods straight into the production
                    environment to see if the users will accept them.


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 19:59:06 2012
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 19:59:06 -0400
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <20121026235601.GA32598@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <CABicbJJkbK4fop0GSb2bofMu1_6X0vVgku4bo1O51b63S0A5ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121026235601.GA32598@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <CABicbJ+P-uiN5-AAPLLgSwMJHYZrefB1RtsLWs6Lbcj94O0-NQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 7:56 PM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
> No. Separate _expressions_ are evaluated left to right.
>
> So this:
>
>   f(1), f(2)
>
> calls "f(1)" first, then "f(2)". But this:
>
>   f(1) + f(2)
>
> need not do so. Counter-documentation welcomed, but the doco you cite
> does not define an order for the second example above.

Actually, it does. Both f(1) and f(2) are separate (sub-)expressions
in f(1) + f(2). More to the point, it gives the following example:

    In the following lines, expressions will be evaluated in the
arithmetic order of their suffixes:
        ...
        expr1 + expr2 * (expr3 - expr4)

I sympathize with your concern, though. Order of evaluation is very
bitey, and it's better to be safe than sorry.

-- Devin


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Oct 26 20:07:16 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Oct 2012 00:07:16 GMT
Subject: while expression feature proposal
References: <7xlietjjsd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<20121026220338.GA25126@cskk.homeip.net>
	<mailman.2911.1351291717.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <508b25b4$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 16:48:05 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
>> It will work anywhere an expression is allowed, and superficially
>> doesn't break stuff that exists if "as" has the lowest precedence.
> 
> Please, no.  There is no need for it outside of while expressions, 

There's no need for it *inside* of while expressions. It doesn't add to 
the expressiveness of the language, or increase the power of the 
language, or help people write correct code. It saves one trivial line of 
code in some, but not all, while loops, at the cost of increasing the 
complexity of the language and parser.

-1


> and
> anywhere else it's just going to be bad practice.  Even if it's
> considered an expression, let's only allow it in while expressions.

While loops are not so special. If it will be bad practice elsewhere, it 
will be bad practice in while expressions too.


-- 
Steven


From cs at zip.com.au  Fri Oct 26 20:11:35 2012
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 11:11:35 +1100
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <508B1C22.9080207@thechases.com>
References: <508B1C22.9080207@thechases.com>
Message-ID: <20121027001135.GA431@cskk.homeip.net>

On 26Oct2012 18:26, Tim Chase <sed at thechases.com> wrote:
| On 10/26/12 17:03, Cameron Simpson wrote:
| > On 26Oct2012 09:10, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
| > |      while (client.spop("profile_ids") as profile_id) is not None:
| > 
| > Now this pulls me from a -0 to a +0.5.
| > 
| > Any doco would need to make it clear that no order of operation is
| > implied, so that this:
| > 
| >   x = 1
| >   y = (2 as x) + x
| > 
| > does not have a defined answer; might be 2, might be 3. Just like any
| > other function call with side effects.
| 
| I really don't like undefined (or underdefined) specs.  If it was to
| be PEP'd out, I'd want to address as many edge cases as possible.

I would not. Big time. One of the reasons C is so successful as a
lower level language is that by defining only what is needed to be
defined to make it _possible_ to get predictable and useful behaviour,
maximum flexibility is left for implementation to adapt to particular
environments as freely as possible.

Pinning down all the corner cases is in general a bad idea, IMO. Every
corner case you pin down is an early decision for inflexibility that may
later prove to be illfounded.

Specify what _needs_ to be specified to achieve the required effect.
And stay the hell away from things that only constraint outcomes while
not providing the required effect.

To take an obvious counter example: your stance would encourage defining
the iteration order of dictionary keys. To no good purpose, merely to
present definition of _all_ operations instead of just the necessary
operations.

| Such as
|   y = (2 as x) + (3 as x) + (4 as x)
|   y = (2 as x) + 4 as x

I would want these to be ambiguous, myself.

|   y = booleanish and (2 as x) or (4 as x)
|   y = booleanish and 2 or 4 as x
|   y = (2 as x) if booleanish else (3 as x)
|   y = (2 as x) if booleanish else (3 as z)

None of these is ambiguous. The second one could be harder to read and
want some brackets purely for clarity, but it is perfectly well defined
in outcome already.

| regardless of how "$PEJORATIVE, that's a dumb thing to do!" it is.

No, sometimes dumb things should remain bad ideas. Defining them to all
just makes them no longer obviously bad ideas, merely subtly bad ideas.
And subtly bad ideas are worse!

| I hate C for how underdefined a lot of corners are. ("amongst my
| hatreds of C are such diverse elements as: underdefined corners, a
| pitiful standard library, the ease of shooting yourself in the foot,
| ...")

The C standard library was pretty good for when it came out. And the higher
up the available facilities tree you go the more choices there are about
how something should be done. C is still one of my favourite languages
in its domain, though I haven't used it much for several years.

If you're uncomfortable with C, try to stay away from it. (I try to stay
away from C++ and its bretheren for similar reasons.)

| > I'm not +1 because to my mind it still presents a way for
| > assignment/binding to not be glaringly obvious at the left hand side of
| > an expression.
| 
| I think this is why I like it in the "while" (and could be twisted
| into accepting it for "if") because it also introduces an
| implied/actual scope for which the variable is intended.

A conceptual scope, sure. Presumably not a real one in Python...

| In an
| arbitrary evaluation/assignment, it's much easier to lose the
| "definition" nature of it at the top of a block.

I'm not sure I agree here. Code example?

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.
- Albert Einstein


From cs at zip.com.au  Fri Oct 26 20:15:01 2012
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 11:15:01 +1100
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidkM-XCmCvFF1-=X7oLvY+LXumMJmWo1Qz4F_mszvOizcg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121026235601.GA32598@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <CALwzidkM-XCmCvFF1-=X7oLvY+LXumMJmWo1Qz4F_mszvOizcg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121026235601.GA32598@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <20121027001501.GA1586@cskk.homeip.net>

On 27Oct2012 10:56, I wrote:
| On 26Oct2012 19:41, Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda at gmail.com> wrote:
| | But function calls with side effects _do_ have a defined order of
| | evaluation. Left to right.
| | And the answer should be 4.
| | http://docs.python.org/reference/expressions.html#evaluation-order
| 
| No. Separate _expressions_ are evaluated left to right.
[...]
| need not do so. Counter-documentation welcomed, but the doco you cite
| does not define an order for the second example above.
[...]

On 26Oct2012 16:48, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
| > does not have a defined answer; might be 2, might be 3. Just like any
| > other function call with side effects.
| Actually, the docs are clear that expressions are evaluated left to
| right, so the expected result of the above would be 4.

Ian, Devin, my apologies. You're right, the docs are clear and my brain
is foggy. So, no ambiguity about that with the suggested "as" operator.
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

Well, if you didn't struggle so much, you wouldn't get rope burns.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Oct 26 20:18:32 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Oct 2012 00:18:32 GMT
Subject: while expression feature proposal
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2803.1351119286.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2807.1351121989.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6apaa$eid$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<mailman.2854.1351183039.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6c8kh$lqj$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<f3e3c344-8a7d-46f7-b499-144775c7f9aa@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2912.1351293180.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <508b2858$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 19:12:17 -0400, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:

> I would like a better iter(), rather than a better while loop. It is
> irritating to pass in functions that take arguments, and it is
> impossible to, say, pass in functions that should stop being iterated
> over when they return _either_ a None or a, say, False.

Write a trivial helper function. Not everything has to be a one-liner or 
a built-in.

def iterate_until_none_or_false(func, *args, **kwargs):
    while True:
        x = func(*args, **kwargs)
        # Halt if x is None or False, but not other falsey values.
        if x is None or x is False:
            return
        yield x

for x in iterate_until_none_or_false(
        some_function, 1, 2, "c", spam="yummy"):
    process(x)



-- 
Steven


From cs at zip.com.au  Fri Oct 26 20:19:26 2012
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 11:19:26 +1100
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidkM-XCmCvFF1-=X7oLvY+LXumMJmWo1Qz4F_mszvOizcg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALwzidkM-XCmCvFF1-=X7oLvY+LXumMJmWo1Qz4F_mszvOizcg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121027001926.GA1838@cskk.homeip.net>

On 26Oct2012 16:48, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
| On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
| > It will work anywhere an expression is allowed, and superficially
| > doesn't break stuff that exists if "as" has the lowest precedence.
| 
| Please, no.  There is no need for it outside of while expressions, and
| anywhere else it's just going to be bad practice.  Even if it's
| considered an expression, let's only allow it in while expressions.

We might just have to differ here.

| > It would probably mean folding the except/with "as" uses back into
| > expressions and out of the control-structural part of the grammar. I can't
| > see that that would actually break any existing code though - anyone else?
| 
| Yes it would, because the meaning is a bit different in both of those
| cases.  For except, the result of the expression (an exception class
| or tuple of classes) is not stored in the target; the exception
| *instance* is.  Similarly for with, the result of the expression is
| not stored; the result of calling its __enter__ method is, which is
| often but not always the same thing.

Hmm. Good points. Possibly damning points.

  except (E1, E2) as c as d:

anyone? I should hope not!

I may be back to +0 now:-( +0.5 for being able to get at partial
expression results somehow, -0.1 for the conflict above.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

Every \item command in item_list must have an optional argument.
        - Leslie Lamport, LaTeX


From roy at panix.com  Fri Oct 26 20:21:48 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 20:21:48 -0400
Subject: SSH Connection with Python
References: <5089119A.2040902@globe.de> <508915BD.9050401@shopzeus.com>
	<CADg3d1O1N9S4wnLPvmXuLkp8nZNuJWofDV=g0Qy_nyt0X_KNgA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2915.1351294793.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-B682C5.20214826102012@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2915.1351294793.27098.python-list at python.org>,
 Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:

> Another problem is, that paramiko depends on pycrypto 2.1+
> which doesn't exist as binary release for python 2.7

I'm running paramiko-1.7.6 with python 2.7.3 on my Ubunto Precise box.  
I'm reasonably sure all I did was "pip install paramiko".

On the other hand, it may have built it from source during the install.  
Generally, I just let pip do it's magic and don't worry about the 
details.  If you're in an environment where you don't have the compiler 
tool chain, you may be more constrained.

> Is fabric capable of performing scp / sftp

Fabric uses ssh to make connections, and it is capable of copying files.  
For all intents and purposes, I'd say that means it is capable of 
"performing scp / sftp" (both of which are just front-ends to the same 
basic ssh protocol.

But, keep in mind that fabric depends on paramiko.  If you can't get 
paramiko installed, you probably can't get fabric either.


From cs at zip.com.au  Fri Oct 26 20:23:06 2012
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 11:23:06 +1100
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJJ073VyhsikKsqF-AhLcriAKdfd8qoTAO3B0OAyYUT-mg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABicbJJ073VyhsikKsqF-AhLcriAKdfd8qoTAO3B0OAyYUT-mg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121027002306.GA2158@cskk.homeip.net>

On 26Oct2012 19:19, Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda at gmail.com> wrote:
| (I've always been partial to ":=", personally.)

I'm less so. It is hard to type (on my keyboard anyway, that's a shifted
keystroke followed by an unshifted one). I mank that up often enough
that I would resent it for something as oft used as an assignment.

Visually, yes, it's good. I was happy with it in Pascal and its like,
though I find the succinctness of plain "=" very attractive given that
it is only available on the left in Python, where it is easy to see and
not prone to mixups with == later in an expression.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

George, discussing a patent and prior art:
"Look, this  publication has a date, the patent has a priority date,
can't you just compare them?"
Paul Sutcliffe:
"Not unless you're a lawyer."


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 20:27:32 2012
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 20:27:32 -0400
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <508b2858$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2803.1351119286.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2807.1351121989.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6apaa$eid$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<mailman.2854.1351183039.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6c8kh$lqj$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<f3e3c344-8a7d-46f7-b499-144775c7f9aa@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2912.1351293180.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508b2858$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJ+gQydvxdXjE7QJC130+EUd7QXZBKtgUf-nEpMqZtsxFg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> I would like a better iter(), rather than a better while loop. It is
>> irritating to pass in functions that take arguments, and it is
>> impossible to, say, pass in functions that should stop being iterated
>> over when they return _either_ a None or a, say, False.
>
> Write a trivial helper function. Not everything has to be a one-liner or
> a built-in.

You are missing the point. I was suggesting that the use case of new
syntax might be satisfied instead by new functions, which are clearly
preferable to new syntax from the perspective your rebuttal comes
from.

Indeed, one could write those helper functions, and use them, without
any changes to Python being made at all!

-- Devin


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 20:42:25 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 11:42:25 +1100
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJJ073VyhsikKsqF-AhLcriAKdfd8qoTAO3B0OAyYUT-mg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2803.1351119286.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2807.1351121989.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6apaa$eid$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<mailman.2854.1351183039.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6c8kh$lqj$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
	<f3e3c344-8a7d-46f7-b499-144775c7f9aa@googlegroups.com>
	<7x7gqdzs1i.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<CAPTjJmqhw8w2G=vqHt=LpWejLFG16npgZk6CbBBG0d1CMnhAoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABicbJJ073VyhsikKsqF-AhLcriAKdfd8qoTAO3B0OAyYUT-mg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrTtQUSgVAtnCer9e=Egrx68HK4aspcRfbWzTG6urQjuA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Devin Jeanpierre
<jeanpierreda at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 2:23 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> while (client.spop("profile_ids") as profile_id) is not None:
>>     print profile_id
>>
>> Why is everyone skirting around C-style assignment expressions as
>> though they're simultaneously anathema and the goal? :)
>
> Why should these two statements behave differently? :(
>
>     with foo() as bar: bar.baz()
>     with (foo() as bar): bar.baz()
>
> I don't understand why everyone is so attached to this "as" syntax.
> It's confusing because it behaves subtly differently than how it works
> in "with", and it puts the variable on the wrong side of the
> assignment operator.
>
> (I've always been partial to ":=", personally.)

I'm not attached to "as", myself. It puts the variable at the wrong
end, and feels backward compared to a convention that exists elsewhere
in the language (regular variable assignment). This is a much stronger
backwardness issue than the Python ternary operator (which is only
backward in comparison to other languages).

Personally, I'm quite happy with assignment itself being an
expression. But since that's unlikely to be directly accepted in
Python, I would be looking for something as general as possible -
something that can truly be used _anywhere_ - rather than a specific
while-statement enhancement. Capturing partial expression results is
an extremely convenient thing to do.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 21:29:46 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 12:29:46 +1100
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
In-Reply-To: <508ad937$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
	<k6cr4c$4md$1@ger.gmane.org> <5089F33A.8010804@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<mailman.2886.1351238424.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508ab917$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2898.1351269949.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508ad937$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqs3aObA=QZEAegZiipTVPU0wdAAy1GNb6zGmGfv4iZ9w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 5:40 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 03:45:46 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> Actually, as I see it, there's only one principle to take note of: the
>> "HMS Pinafore Floating Point Rule"...
>>
>> ** Floating point expressions should never be tested for equality **
>> ** What, never? **
>> ** Well, hardly ever! **
>>
>> The problem isn't with the associativity, it's with the equality
>> comparison. Replace "x == y" with "abs(x-y)<epsilon" for some epsilon
>> and all your statements fulfill people's expectations.
>
> O RYLY?
>
> Would you care to tell us which epsilon they should use?
>
> Hint: *whatever* epsilon you pick, there will be cases where that is
> either stupidly too small, stupidly too large, or one that degenerates to
> float equality. And you may not be able to tell if you have one of those
> cases or not.
>
> Here's a concrete example for you:
>
> What *single* value of epsilon should you pick such that the following
> two expressions evaluate correctly?
>
> sum([1e20, 0.1, -1e20, 0.1]*1000) == 200
> sum([1e20, 99.9, -1e20, 0.1]*1000) != 200

Your epsilon value needs to take into account the precisions of the
values involved, and each operation needs to modify the
precision/error value. That's how I was taught to do it in
mathematical calculations. Well, I was taught "significant digits",
counting decimal digits, and a computer would normally want to count
"bits of precision", but close enough.

So here's my heresy: When you add 1e20 and 0.1, the value should be
equal to the original 1e20 unless it has at least 21 significant
digits. Otherwise, you get stupidly accurate errors, like in the old
anecdote about the age of a museum piece: It's 1001 years, 2 months,
and 3 days old, because I asked last year how old it was and it was a
thousand years old.

Flame away!

ChrisA


From chenyong20000 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 22:28:39 2012
From: chenyong20000 at gmail.com (skyworld)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 19:28:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to change os.popen4 to subprocess
Message-ID: <c6bac1cc-abda-4d95-b3b4-e96dc7ab7a3a@r8g2000pbs.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I'm new to python and I'm trying to porting some scripts from v0.96 to
v2.0.1. A piece of code is like this:

cmd_h = os.popen4(env['SYSCMDLINE'])[1]

the system indicates the popen4 is deprecated and suggest to use
subprocess. Can anybody tell me how to use subprocess in this case?
and what does "[1]" here means?

thanks.


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 26 22:42:11 2012
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 19:42:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: attaching names to subexpressions
Message-ID: <a533d812-480e-479b-9210-7097c2d70d73@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>

I have been reading the thread "while expression feature proposal,"
and one of the interesting outcomes of the thread is the idea that
Python could allow you to attach names to subexpressions, much like C
allows.  In C you can say something like this:

  tax_next_year = (new_salary = salary * (1 + raise)) * tax_rate

To avoid the "=" pitfall, folks have proposed something like this for
Python:

  tax_next_year = ((salary * (1 + raise)) as new_salary) * tax_rate
  print new_salary, tax_next_year

The basic rule in Python is that you can only do one assignment per
line of code, which generally forces you to write more readable code
IMHO:

  new_salary = salary * (1 + raise)
  tax_next_year = new_salary * tax_rate
  print new_salary, tax_next_year

The above code is slightly more verbose than the "as" proposal would
permit, but the latter code is arguably easier for a human to parse,
and it's also very amenable to print debugging and/or defensive
coding:

  new_salary = salary * (1 + raise)
  print new_salary
  assert new_salary > salary
  tax_next_year = new_salary * tax_rate
  print new_salary, tax_next_year

If the problem statement is "How do I name subexpression?", then
Python already has a clear path--break your code up into multiple
lines.  I'm wondering where this simple solution really breaks down
from a readability perspective.  Perhaps with short-circuited boolean
expressions?








From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Oct 26 23:02:06 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 04:02:06 +0100
Subject: how to change os.popen4 to subprocess
In-Reply-To: <c6bac1cc-abda-4d95-b3b4-e96dc7ab7a3a@r8g2000pbs.googlegroups.com>
References: <c6bac1cc-abda-4d95-b3b4-e96dc7ab7a3a@r8g2000pbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <508B4EAE.2060109@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-27 03:28, skyworld wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm new to python and I'm trying to porting some scripts from v0.96 to
> v2.0.1. A piece of code is like this:
>
> cmd_h = os.popen4(env['SYSCMDLINE'])[1]
>
> the system indicates the popen4 is deprecated and suggest to use
> subprocess. Can anybody tell me how to use subprocess in this case?
> and what does "[1]" here means?
>
os.popen4 returns a tuple of (child_stdin, child_stdout_and_stderr).
The [1] gets the child_stdout_and_stderr member.

Using the subprocess module:

# Untested!
cmd_h = subprocess.Popen(env['SYSCMDLINE'], stdout=subprocess.PIPE, 
stderr=subprocess.STDOUT, shell=True).stdout

Explanation:

The command line: env['SYSCMDLINE']

Return stdout: stdout=subprocess.PIPE

stderr should be combined with stdout: stderr=subprocess.STDOUT

Let the shell parse the command line: shell=True



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Oct 26 23:10:33 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 04:10:33 +0100
Subject: how to change os.popen4 to subprocess
In-Reply-To: <c6bac1cc-abda-4d95-b3b4-e96dc7ab7a3a@r8g2000pbs.googlegroups.com>
References: <c6bac1cc-abda-4d95-b3b4-e96dc7ab7a3a@r8g2000pbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k6fj5f$74f$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 27/10/2012 03:28, skyworld wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm new to python and I'm trying to porting some scripts from v0.96 to
> v2.0.1. A piece of code is like this:

What software are you talking about here, it's certainly not Python 
versions as the most up to date are 2.7.3 and 3.3.0?

>
> cmd_h = os.popen4(env['SYSCMDLINE'])[1]
>
> the system indicates the popen4 is deprecated and suggest to use
> subprocess. Can anybody tell me how to use subprocess in this case?
> and what does "[1]" here means?

If you don't know what the [1] means you've got problems :)  I suggest 
you read the tutorial here first 
http://docs.python.org/tutorial/index.html then the subprocess module 
here http://docs.python.org/library/subprocess.html#module-subprocess, 
specifically 
http://docs.python.org/library/subprocess.html#subprocess-replacements

>
> thanks.
>

No problem.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Fri Oct 26 23:43:55 2012
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 20:43:55 -0700
Subject: while expression feature proposal
References: <7xlietjjsd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<20121026220338.GA25126@cskk.homeip.net>
	<mailman.2911.1351291717.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508b25b4$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7x8vasziis.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
> There's no need for it *inside* of while expressions. It doesn't add to 
> the expressiveness of the language, or increase the power of the 
> language, or help people write correct code. It saves one trivial line of 
> code in some, but not all, while loops, at the cost of increasing the 
> complexity of the language and parser.

I'm maybe +0.25 on the suggestion but it does save more than one line in
the places where it's useful, plus improves clarity.  You get to write
 
   while (foo() as x) is not None:
       ...

instead of

  while True:
    x = foo()
    if x is not None:
       break
    ...

which is much uglier.  Maybe there are even times when you want

   while (left() as x) != (right() as y): ...

that is even messier when expanded out.

There was also the cascaded regexp match example, that happens regularly
in real code and that I've hacked various workarounds for, or wished for
a Maybe monad.


From chenyong20000 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 27 02:30:52 2012
From: chenyong20000 at gmail.com (skyworld)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 23:30:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to change os.popen4 to subprocess
References: <c6bac1cc-abda-4d95-b3b4-e96dc7ab7a3a@r8g2000pbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2928.1351306928.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ea712e7b-bad9-4763-bbae-22a824f07256@qi8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 27, 11:02?am, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> On 2012-10-27 03:28, skyworld wrote:> Hi,
>
> > I'm new to python and I'm trying to porting some scripts from v0.96 to
> > v2.0.1. A piece of code is like this:
>
> > cmd_h = os.popen4(env['SYSCMDLINE'])[1]
>
> > the system indicates the popen4 is deprecated and suggest to use
> > subprocess. Can anybody tell me how to use subprocess in this case?
> > and what does "[1]" here means?
>
> os.popen4 returns a tuple of (child_stdin, child_stdout_and_stderr).
> The [1] gets the child_stdout_and_stderr member.
>
> Using the subprocess module:
>
> # Untested!
> cmd_h = subprocess.Popen(env['SYSCMDLINE'], stdout=subprocess.PIPE,
> stderr=subprocess.STDOUT, shell=True).stdout
>
> Explanation:
>
> The command line: env['SYSCMDLINE']
>
> Return stdout: stdout=subprocess.PIPE
>
> stderr should be combined with stdout: stderr=subprocess.STDOUT
>
> Let the shell parse the command line: shell=True

thanks


From nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de  Sat Oct 27 02:56:16 2012
From: nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de (Thomas Rachel)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 08:56:16 +0200
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2931.1351313336.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
	<k6cr4c$4md$1@ger.gmane.org> <5089F33A.8010804@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<mailman.2886.1351238424.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508ab917$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2931.1351313336.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k6g0ig$kre$1@r03.glglgl.gl>

Am 27.10.2012 06:48 schrieb Dennis Lee Bieber:

> 	I don't know about the more modern calculators, but at least up
> through my HP-41CX, HP calculators didn't do (binary) "floating
> point"... They did a form of BCD with a fixed number of significant
> /decimal/ digits

Then, what about sqrt(x)**2 or arcsin(sin(x))? Did that always return 
the original x?

Thomas


From nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de  Sat Oct 27 05:26:46 2012
From: nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915 at spamschutz.glglgl.de (Thomas Rachel)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 11:26:46 +0200
Subject: better way for ' '.join(args) + '\n'?
In-Reply-To: <utrpl9-udk.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <utrpl9-udk.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <k6g9cm$t47$1@r03.glglgl.gl>

Am 26.10.2012 09:49 schrieb Ulrich Eckhardt:
> Hi!
>
> General advise when assembling strings is to not concatenate them
> repeatedly but instead use string's join() function, because it avoids
> repeated reallocations and is at least as expressive as any alternative.
>
> What I have now is a case where I'm assembling lines of text for driving
> a program with a commandline interface.

Stop.

In this case, you think too complicated.

Just do

     subprocess.Popen(['prog', 'foo', 'bar', 'baz'])

-  is the most safest thing for this use case.

If it should not be possible for any reason, you should be aware of any 
traps you could catch - e.g., if you want to feed your string to a 
Bourne shell, you should escape the strings properly.

In such cases, I use


def shellquote(*strs):
	r"""Input: file names, output: ''-enclosed strings where every ' is 
replaced with '\''. Intended for usage with the shell."""
	# just take over everything except ';
	# replace ' with '\''
	# The shell sees ''' as ''\'''\'''\'''. Ugly, but works.
	return " ".join([
		"'"+st.replace("'","'\\''")+"'"
		for st in strs
	])


so I can use

shellquote('program name', 'argu"ment 1', '$arg 2',
     "even args containing a ' are ok")

For Windows, you'll have to modify this somehow.


HTH,

Thomas


From mining.facts at googlemail.com  Sat Oct 27 06:18:09 2012
From: mining.facts at googlemail.com (mining.facts at googlemail.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 03:18:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sphinx / sys.path
Message-ID: <15bad12d-5806-48f8-89dd-47e9df3de9e8@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I figure out how it works with sphinx documentation. But I'm stucked 
in the sys.path issue? 

sys.path.insert(0, '/home/chris/projekte/dev/testmodule')

/home/chris/projekte/dev/testmodule/doc/source/code.rst:4: WARNING: autodoc can't import/find module 'myproject', it reported error: "No module named useful_1", please check your spelling and sys.path

Thanks in advance
Christian


+-- doc
|?? +-- build
|?? |?? +-- doctrees
|?? |?? |?? +-- code.doctree
|?? |?? |?? +-- environment.pickle
|?? |?? |?? +-- index.doctree
|?? |?? +-- genindex.html
|?? |?? +-- html
|?? |?? |?? +-- code.html
|?? |?? |?? +-- genindex.html
|?? |?? |?? +-- index.html
|?? |?? |?? +-- objects.inv
|?? |?? |?? +-- py-modindex.html
|?? |?? |?? +-- search.html
|?? |?? |?? +-- searchindex.js
|?? |?? |?? +-- _sources
|?? |?? |?? |?? +-- code.txt
|?? |?? |?? |?? +-- index.txt
|?? |?? |?? +-- _static
|?? |?? |??     +-- ajax-loader.gif
|?? |?? |??     +-- basic.css
|?? |?? |??     +-- comment-bright.png
|?? |?? |??     +-- comment-close.png
|?? |?? |??     +-- comment.png
|?? |?? |??     +-- default.css
|?? |?? |??     +-- doctools.js
|?? |?? |??     +-- down.png
|?? |?? |??     +-- down-pressed.png
|?? |?? |??     +-- file.png
|?? |?? |??     +-- jquery.js
|?? |?? |??     +-- minus.png
|?? |?? |??     +-- plus.png
|?? |?? |??     +-- pygments.css
|?? |?? |??     +-- searchtools.js
|?? |?? |??     +-- sidebar.js
|?? |?? |??     +-- underscore.js
|?? |?? |??     +-- up.png
|?? |?? |??     +-- up-pressed.png
|?? |?? |??     +-- websupport.js
|?? |?? +-- index.html
|?? |?? +-- objects.inv
|?? |?? +-- search.html
|?? |?? +-- searchindex.js
|?? |?? +-- _sources
|?? |?? |?? +-- index.txt
|?? |?? +-- _static
|?? |??     +-- ajax-loader.gif
|?? |??     +-- basic.css
|?? |??     +-- comment-bright.png
|?? |??     +-- comment-close.png
|?? |??     +-- comment.png
|?? |??     +-- default.css
|?? |??     +-- doctools.js
|?? |??     +-- down.png
|?? |??     +-- down-pressed.png
|?? |??     +-- file.png
|?? |??     +-- jquery.js
|?? |??     +-- minus.png
|?? |??     +-- plus.png
|?? |??     +-- pygments.css
|?? |??     +-- searchtools.js
|?? |??     +-- sidebar.js
|?? |??     +-- underscore.js
|?? |??     +-- up.png
|?? |??     +-- up-pressed.png
|?? |??     +-- websupport.js
|?? +-- make.bat
|?? +-- Makefile
|?? +-- source
|??     +-- code.rst
|??     +-- conf.py
|??     +-- index.rst
|??     +-- _static
|??     +-- _templates
+-- myproject
|?? +-- __init__.py
|?? +-- __init__.pyc
|?? +-- usefuel1.py
|?? +-- usefuel1.pyc
|?? +-- usefuel2.py
|?? +-- usefuel2.pyc
+-- README
+-- setup.py
+-- tests


From d at davea.name  Sat Oct 27 06:33:25 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 06:33:25 -0400
Subject: Sphinx / sys.path
In-Reply-To: <15bad12d-5806-48f8-89dd-47e9df3de9e8@googlegroups.com>
References: <15bad12d-5806-48f8-89dd-47e9df3de9e8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <508BB875.6000509@davea.name>

On 10/27/2012 06:18 AM, mining.facts at googlemail.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I figure out how it works with sphinx documentation. But I'm stucked 
> in the sys.path issue? 
>
> sys.path.insert(0, '/home/chris/projekte/dev/testmodule')
>
> /home/chris/projekte/dev/testmodule/doc/source/code.rst:4: WARNING: autodoc can't import/find module 'myproject', it reported error: "No module named useful_1", please check your spelling and sys.path

I have no idea if it's the ONLY problem, but the module below isn't
called useful_1, it's called usefuel1.  Notice there are two differences.

> Thanks in advance
> Christian
>
>
> +-- doc
> |   +-- build
> |   |   +-- doctrees
> |   |   |   +-- code.doctree
> |   |   |   +-- environment.pickle
> |   |   |   +-- index.doctree
> |   |   +-- genindex.html
> |   |   +-- html
> |   |   |   +-- code.html
> |   |   |   +-- genindex.html
> |   |   |   +-- index.html
> |   |   |   +-- objects.inv
> |   |   |   +-- py-modindex.html
> |   |   |   +-- search.html
> |   |   |   +-- searchindex.js
> |   |   |   +-- _sources
> |   |   |   |   +-- code.txt
> |   |   |   |   +-- index.txt
> |   |   |   +-- _static
> |   |   |       +-- ajax-loader.gif
> |   |   |       +-- basic.css
> |   |   |       +-- comment-bright.png
> |   |   |       +-- comment-close.png
> |   |   |       +-- comment.png
> |   |   |       +-- default.css
> |   |   |       +-- doctools.js
> |   |   |       +-- down.png
> |   |   |       +-- down-pressed.png
> |   |   |       +-- file.png
> |   |   |       +-- jquery.js
> |   |   |       +-- minus.png
> |   |   |       +-- plus.png
> |   |   |       +-- pygments.css
> |   |   |       +-- searchtools.js
> |   |   |       +-- sidebar.js
> |   |   |       +-- underscore.js
> |   |   |       +-- up.png
> |   |   |       +-- up-pressed.png
> |   |   |       +-- websupport.js
> |   |   +-- index.html
> |   |   +-- objects.inv
> |   |   +-- search.html
> |   |   +-- searchindex.js
> |   |   +-- _sources
> |   |   |   +-- index.txt
> |   |   +-- _static
> |   |       +-- ajax-loader.gif
> |   |       +-- basic.css
> |   |       +-- comment-bright.png
> |   |       +-- comment-close.png
> |   |       +-- comment.png
> |   |       +-- default.css
> |   |       +-- doctools.js
> |   |       +-- down.png
> |   |       +-- down-pressed.png
> |   |       +-- file.png
> |   |       +-- jquery.js
> |   |       +-- minus.png
> |   |       +-- plus.png
> |   |       +-- pygments.css
> |   |       +-- searchtools.js
> |   |       +-- sidebar.js
> |   |       +-- underscore.js
> |   |       +-- up.png
> |   |       +-- up-pressed.png
> |   |       +-- websupport.js
> |   +-- make.bat
> |   +-- Makefile
> |   +-- source
> |       +-- code.rst
> |       +-- conf.py
> |       +-- index.rst
> |       +-- _static
> |       +-- _templates
> +-- myproject
> |   +-- __init__.py
> |   +-- __init__.pyc
> |   +-- usefuel1.py
> |   +-- usefuel1.pyc
> |   +-- usefuel2.py
> |   +-- usefuel2.pyc
> +-- README
> +-- setup.py
> +-- tests


-- 

DaveA



From mining.facts at googlemail.com  Sat Oct 27 06:33:32 2012
From: mining.facts at googlemail.com (mining.facts at googlemail.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 03:33:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sphinx / sys.path
In-Reply-To: <15bad12d-5806-48f8-89dd-47e9df3de9e8@googlegroups.com>
References: <15bad12d-5806-48f8-89dd-47e9df3de9e8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4d8ede81-b3f0-4002-93c9-2b89205ce4e4@googlegroups.com>

Got it spelling error!



From gelonida at gmail.com  Sat Oct 27 08:18:11 2012
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 14:18:11 +0200
Subject: SSH Connection with Python
In-Reply-To: <roy-B682C5.20214826102012@news.panix.com>
References: <5089119A.2040902@globe.de> <508915BD.9050401@shopzeus.com>
	<CADg3d1O1N9S4wnLPvmXuLkp8nZNuJWofDV=g0Qy_nyt0X_KNgA@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2915.1351294793.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-B682C5.20214826102012@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <k6gje2$cpn$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/27/2012 02:21 AM, Roy Smith wrote:
> In article <mailman.2915.1351294793.27098.python-list at python.org>,
>   Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Another problem is, that paramiko depends on pycrypto 2.1+
>> which doesn't exist as binary release for python 2.7
>
> I'm running paramiko-1.7.6 with python 2.7.3 on my Ubunto Precise box.
> I'm reasonably sure all I did was "pip install paramiko".

Apologies.  I failed to mention, that I was talking about Windows not Linux.

I use Python for applications, that should work under Linux and under 
Windows.

>
> But, keep in mind that fabric depends on paramiko.  If you can't get
> paramiko installed, you probably can't get fabric either.
>
Thanks, that's good to know, so I don't have to bother looking at farbic 
(at least not as solution on windows python 2.7 without having to try to 
recompile pycrypto myself)




From gelonida at gmail.com  Sat Oct 27 09:03:38 2012
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 15:03:38 +0200
Subject: attaching names to subexpressions
In-Reply-To: <a533d812-480e-479b-9210-7097c2d70d73@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
References: <a533d812-480e-479b-9210-7097c2d70d73@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k6gm38$eb$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/27/2012 04:42 AM, Steve Howell wrote:
 > I have been reading the thread "while expression feature proposal,"
 > and one of the interesting outcomes of the thread is the idea that
 > Python could allow you to attach names to subexpressions, much like C
 > allows.  In C you can say something like this:
 >
 >    tax_next_year = (new_salary = salary * (1 + raise)) * tax_rate
 >
 > To avoid the "=" pitfall, folks have proposed something like this for
 > Python:
 >
 >    tax_next_year = ((salary * (1 + raise)) as new_salary) * tax_rate
 >    print new_salary, tax_next_year
 >
. . .
 >
 > If the problem statement is "How do I name subexpression?", then
 > Python already has a clear path--break your code up into multiple
 > lines.  I'm wondering where this simple solution really breaks down
 > from a readability perspective.  Perhaps with short-circuited boolean
 > expressions?
 >

For me two places where expression assignemts can be useful are while 
loops and sometimes elif statements.


While example
----------------

line = complex_exression
while line:
     do something with(line)
     line = complex_expression

violates clearly the DRY principle  and the risk to change one line but 
not the other is high.


The 'canonical way'
while True:
     line = complex_expression
     if not line:
         break
     do_something_with(line)

avoids this problem, but I was never really convinced about the
beauty / readbility of this construct.

One misses the exit condition of the while loop on the first glance.
In my opinion I shouldn't be obliged to read any of the indented lines
of the while statement on a first 'visual' pass through somebody elses 
code and still be able to see what the loop iterates through.


Following looks in my opinion nicer.

while complex_expression as line:
     do_something_with(line)

or the even more powerful suggestion:

while (complex_expression as line) is not None:
     do_something_with(line)


Elif Example:
--------------

value1 = expression1
if (value1):
    do_something
else:
     value2 = expression2
     if(value2):
         do_something_with(value2)
     else:
         value2 = expression3
         if(value3):
             do_something_with(value3)

Could be rewritten as

value1= expression1
if(value1):
     do_something_with(value1)
elif(expression2 as value2):
     do_something_with(value2)
elif(expression3 as value3):
     do_something_with(value3)



However in all other cases I really think using this new syntax would 
reduce readability andit would be better to just split the statement 
into two lines.

for while / elif statements splitting up is not possible without doing 
some further acrobatics, which render in my opinion the code less readable.


If the new syntax were adopted, then one open question
would be scoping.

value=expression
if(value):
     do_something_with(value)
elif(expression2 as value):
     do_something_with(value)
elif(expression3 as value):
     do_something_with(value)
print value # will value leak out of the elif statements or not

I never tried to use other 'as-variables' (e.g. from  'with' or 'except' 
statements) outside of their indented block,
so I never bothered to check how Python would react.








From lishaojun2012 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 27 09:13:33 2012
From: lishaojun2012 at gmail.com (Shaojun Li)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 21:13:33 +0800
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <CAPqbz=azH4rjm-HgScCbZ5_+HYhgWCjdRYYQfrfhSKrcF23enw@mail.gmail.com>

nothing
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20121027/968932ed/attachment.html>

From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct 27 09:21:28 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 00:21:28 +1100
Subject: No subject
In-Reply-To: <CAPqbz=azH4rjm-HgScCbZ5_+HYhgWCjdRYYQfrfhSKrcF23enw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPqbz=azH4rjm-HgScCbZ5_+HYhgWCjdRYYQfrfhSKrcF23enw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr-yUXd3zk-r=FNmFHJxj8abD1oaHFT97sN8MGYiNNusw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 12:13 AM, Shaojun Li <lishaojun2012 at gmail.com> wrote:
> nothing

Step aside, 'import this', we've found the true Zen of Python!

ChrisA


From rambiusparkisanius at gmail.com  Sat Oct 27 10:02:23 2012
From: rambiusparkisanius at gmail.com (rambius)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 07:02:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Shipping python modules - best practices?
Message-ID: <12ec4164-7711-4498-9bee-62c8b242aaa5@googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I developed some moderate-sized python scripts that I would like to distribute as python modules. I have never shipped modules before and I read http://docs.python.org/distutils/index.html. I was able to generate a source distribution, but I still have some questions.

1) My module contains some unit tests in separate scripts. I want to execute them when I generate the source distribution. How can I do it?

2) When I install 3rd party modules, I see some of them executing their unit tests during the installation. How can I do it? How can I provide an option to the user to ignore possible test failures?

3) I generate some html documentation with pydoc. How shall I distribute it with the module?

Thank you very much in advance.

Regards
rambius


From mining.facts at googlemail.com  Sat Oct 27 10:02:30 2012
From: mining.facts at googlemail.com (mining.facts at googlemail.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 07:02:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sphinx / sys.path
In-Reply-To: <15bad12d-5806-48f8-89dd-47e9df3de9e8@googlegroups.com>
References: <15bad12d-5806-48f8-89dd-47e9df3de9e8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e62867e9-2e7c-4b66-88cf-0b5333f03735@googlegroups.com>

So now it works, but taking my project get some trouble. I use in MyData my ConfigParser Class for configuration issues. The project.ini file is in /project and has some entries. 

[Logging]
my_data:MyData.py#/tmp/MyData.log#logging.WARN

I guess Sphinx has trouble to load the ini-file!?

Thanks for help
Christian

File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/Sphinx-1.1.3-py2.7.egg/sphinx/ext/autodoc.py", line 321, in import_object
    __import__(self.modname)
  File "/home/chris/projekte/dev/my/module/project/MyData.py", line 17, in <module>
    vec = conf.ConfigSectionMap('Logging')['my_data'].split('#')

/home/chris/projekte/dev/my/module/doc/source/index.rst:42: WARNING: autodoc can't import/find module 'MyData', it reported error: "No section: 'Logging'", please check your spelling and sys.path


From tm at tobix.eu  Sat Oct 27 10:11:48 2012
From: tm at tobix.eu (Tobias Marquardt)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 16:11:48 +0200
Subject: Error compiling python3.2.3: architecture of input file is
	incompatible
Message-ID: <508BEBA4.20109@tobix.eu>

Hello,

I am trying to compile Python 3.2.3.
On my 64 bit Ubuntu machine I have no problems but using Ubuntu 32 but I 
get the following error:

/usr/bin/ld: i386:x86-64 architecture of input file 
`Parser/tokenizer_pgen.o' is incompatible with i386 output
/usr/bin/ld: i386:x86-64 architecture of input file 
`Parser/printgrammar.o' is incompatible with i386 output
/usr/bin/ld: i386:x86-64 architecture of input file `Parser/pgenmain.o' 
is incompatible with i386 output
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [Parser/pgen] Error 1

As it's the first time for me compiling python by myself, I have no idea 
how to solve this. So I'm glad to see any suggestions.

Thanks,
Tobias





From zlchen.ken at gmail.com  Sat Oct 27 10:22:56 2012
From: zlchen.ken at gmail.com (zlchen.ken at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 07:22:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_How_to_correctly_pass_=93pointer=2Dto=2Dpointer=94_i?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?nto_DLL_via_ctypes=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1130.1290081839.2218.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1130.1290081839.2218.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f6991f4e-c582-49f8-8443-c03eea963f64@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, November 18, 2010 8:03:57 PM UTC+8, Grigory Petrov wrote:
> Hello.
> 
> I have a DLL that allocates memory and returns it. Function in DLL is like this:
> 
> void Foo( unsigned char** ppMem, int* pSize )
> {
> ? * pSize = 4;
> ? * ppMem = malloc( * pSize );
> ? for( int i = 0; i < * pSize; i ++ ) (* pMem)[ i ] = i;
> }
> 
> Also, i have a python code that access this function from my DLL:
> 
> from ctypes import *
> Foo = windll.mydll.Foo
> Foo.argtypes = [ POINTER( POINTER( c_ubyte ) ), POINTER( c_int ) ]
> mem = POINTER( c_ubyte )()
> size = c_int( 0 )
> Foo( byref( mem ), byref( size ) ]
> print size, mem[ 0 ], mem[ 1 ], mem[ 2 ], mem[ 3 ]
> 
> I'm expecting that?print?will show "4 0 1 2 3" but it shows "4 221 221
> 221 221" O_O. Any hints what i'm doing wrong?

I am wondering in Python how you free the memory which is allocated in your DLL ?
Thanks 


From zlchen.ken at gmail.com  Sat Oct 27 10:22:56 2012
From: zlchen.ken at gmail.com (zlchen.ken at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 07:22:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_How_to_correctly_pass_=93pointer=2Dto=2Dpointer=94_i?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?nto_DLL_via_ctypes=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1130.1290081839.2218.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1130.1290081839.2218.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f6991f4e-c582-49f8-8443-c03eea963f64@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, November 18, 2010 8:03:57 PM UTC+8, Grigory Petrov wrote:
> Hello.
> 
> I have a DLL that allocates memory and returns it. Function in DLL is like this:
> 
> void Foo( unsigned char** ppMem, int* pSize )
> {
> ? * pSize = 4;
> ? * ppMem = malloc( * pSize );
> ? for( int i = 0; i < * pSize; i ++ ) (* pMem)[ i ] = i;
> }
> 
> Also, i have a python code that access this function from my DLL:
> 
> from ctypes import *
> Foo = windll.mydll.Foo
> Foo.argtypes = [ POINTER( POINTER( c_ubyte ) ), POINTER( c_int ) ]
> mem = POINTER( c_ubyte )()
> size = c_int( 0 )
> Foo( byref( mem ), byref( size ) ]
> print size, mem[ 0 ], mem[ 1 ], mem[ 2 ], mem[ 3 ]
> 
> I'm expecting that?print?will show "4 0 1 2 3" but it shows "4 221 221
> 221 221" O_O. Any hints what i'm doing wrong?

I am wondering in Python how you free the memory which is allocated in your DLL ?
Thanks 


From zlchen.ken at gmail.com  Sat Oct 27 10:42:01 2012
From: zlchen.ken at gmail.com (zlchen.ken at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 07:42:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ctypes free memory which is allocated in C DLL
Message-ID: <e5ab59f8-da39-4d50-bca2-63a5f5ec0cc2@googlegroups.com>

Hi Guys,

I have a DLL which written in C language, one of the function is to allocate a structure, fill the members and then return the pointer of the structure.

After Python called this function, and done with the returned structure, I would like to free the returned structure. How can I achieve this ? Basically, I tried that I wrote a corresponding free interface in the DLL, it works, but calling the libc.free in Python doesn't work.

my_dll.return_structure_ptr.restypes = POINTER(Dummy)
res_ptr = my_dll.return_structure_ptr()
windll.msvcrt.free(res_ptr)  <==== doesn't work, memory violation 
my_dll.free_dummy_struture(res_ptr)  <== This works.

Thanks !


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct 27 10:56:47 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 01:56:47 +1100
Subject: ctypes free memory which is allocated in C DLL
In-Reply-To: <e5ab59f8-da39-4d50-bca2-63a5f5ec0cc2@googlegroups.com>
References: <e5ab59f8-da39-4d50-bca2-63a5f5ec0cc2@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrJcJfUr4nOaudtrZFibmtKS27i+4ZnS3VBYhoSep0EQA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 1:42 AM,  <zlchen.ken at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> I have a DLL which written in C language, one of the function is to allocate a structure, fill the members and then return the pointer of the structure.
>
> After Python called this function, and done with the returned structure, I would like to free the returned structure. How can I achieve this ? Basically, I tried that I wrote a corresponding free interface in the DLL, it works, but calling the libc.free in Python doesn't work.

As a general rule, you should always match your allocs and frees. Use
the same library to free the memory as was used to allocate it.
Nothing else is safe. If your DLL exposes an API that allocates
memory, your DLL should expose a corresponding API to free it. So what
you have is the best way :)

ChrisA


From zlchen.ken at gmail.com  Sat Oct 27 11:40:49 2012
From: zlchen.ken at gmail.com (Ken Chen)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 08:40:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ctypes free memory which is allocated in C DLL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2940.1351349811.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <e5ab59f8-da39-4d50-bca2-63a5f5ec0cc2@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2940.1351349811.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <65b67e08-e06e-4a6a-8bd5-eb6f0f74630f@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, October 27, 2012 10:56:54 PM UTC+8, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 1:42 AM,  <zlchen.ken at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Guys,
> 
> >
> 
> > I have a DLL which written in C language, one of the function is to allocate a structure, fill the members and then return the pointer of the structure.
> 
> >
> 
> > After Python called this function, and done with the returned structure, I would like to free the returned structure. How can I achieve this ? Basically, I tried that I wrote a corresponding free interface in the DLL, it works, but calling the libc.free in Python doesn't work.
> 
> 
> 
> As a general rule, you should always match your allocs and frees. Use
> 
> the same library to free the memory as was used to allocate it.
> 
> Nothing else is safe. If your DLL exposes an API that allocates
> 
> memory, your DLL should expose a corresponding API to free it. So what
> 
> you have is the best way :)
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisA

Thanks a lot, Chris!
Yes, I agree writing a corresponding API to free the memory is the best practice and best bet.
Sometimes, the third party API may not provide that.

After digging the Python manual again and again.
I finally figure out why windll.msvcrt.free is failing.

As the manual stated below, the DLL is using another version of msvcrt lib which is different than the builtin windll.msvcrt. After I explicitly load the msvcrt which built the DLL, things are getting function now.

"ctypes.util.find_msvcrt() 
Windows only: return the filename of the VC runtype library used by Python, and by the extension modules. If the name of the library cannot be determined, None is returned.

If you need to free memory, for example, allocated by an extension module with a call to the free(void *), it is important that you use the function in the same library that allocated the memory."



From zlchen.ken at gmail.com  Sat Oct 27 11:40:49 2012
From: zlchen.ken at gmail.com (Ken Chen)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 08:40:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ctypes free memory which is allocated in C DLL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2940.1351349811.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <e5ab59f8-da39-4d50-bca2-63a5f5ec0cc2@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2940.1351349811.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <65b67e08-e06e-4a6a-8bd5-eb6f0f74630f@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, October 27, 2012 10:56:54 PM UTC+8, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 1:42 AM,  <zlchen.ken at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Guys,
> 
> >
> 
> > I have a DLL which written in C language, one of the function is to allocate a structure, fill the members and then return the pointer of the structure.
> 
> >
> 
> > After Python called this function, and done with the returned structure, I would like to free the returned structure. How can I achieve this ? Basically, I tried that I wrote a corresponding free interface in the DLL, it works, but calling the libc.free in Python doesn't work.
> 
> 
> 
> As a general rule, you should always match your allocs and frees. Use
> 
> the same library to free the memory as was used to allocate it.
> 
> Nothing else is safe. If your DLL exposes an API that allocates
> 
> memory, your DLL should expose a corresponding API to free it. So what
> 
> you have is the best way :)
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisA

Thanks a lot, Chris!
Yes, I agree writing a corresponding API to free the memory is the best practice and best bet.
Sometimes, the third party API may not provide that.

After digging the Python manual again and again.
I finally figure out why windll.msvcrt.free is failing.

As the manual stated below, the DLL is using another version of msvcrt lib which is different than the builtin windll.msvcrt. After I explicitly load the msvcrt which built the DLL, things are getting function now.

"ctypes.util.find_msvcrt() 
Windows only: return the filename of the VC runtype library used by Python, and by the extension modules. If the name of the library cannot be determined, None is returned.

If you need to free memory, for example, allocated by an extension module with a call to the free(void *), it is important that you use the function in the same library that allocated the memory."



From nobody at nowhere.com  Sat Oct 27 12:40:19 2012
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 17:40:19 +0100
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2873.1351217113.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2012.10.27.16.40.19.513000@nowhere.com>

On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 22:04:52 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:

> Containment of nan in collection is tested by is, not ==.

AFAICT, it isn't specific to NaN. The test used by .index() and "in"
appears to be equivalent to:

	def equal(a, b):
	    return a is b or a == b

IOW, it always checks for object identity before equality.

Replacing NaN with an instance of a user-defined class with a
non-reflexive __eq__() method supports this:

	> class Foo(object):
	=  def __eq__(self, other):
	=   return False
	= 
	> a = Foo()
	> b = Foo()
	> a in [1,2,a,3,4]
	True
	> b in [1,2,a,3,4]
	False
	> [1,2,a,3,4].index(a)
	2
	> [1,2,a,3,4].index(b)
	Traceback (most recent call last):
	  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
	ValueError: <__main__.Foo object at 0x7fa7055b0550> is not in list




From nobody at nowhere.com  Sat Oct 27 12:45:50 2012
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 17:45:50 +0100
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
	<k6cr4c$4md$1@ger.gmane.org> <5089F33A.8010804@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<mailman.2886.1351238424.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508ab917$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2931.1351313336.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6g0ig$kre$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
Message-ID: <pan.2012.10.27.16.45.50.438000@nowhere.com>

On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 08:56:16 +0200, Thomas Rachel wrote:

> Am 27.10.2012 06:48 schrieb Dennis Lee Bieber:
> 
>> 	I don't know about the more modern calculators, but at least up
>> through my HP-41CX, HP calculators didn't do (binary) "floating
>> point"... They did a form of BCD with a fixed number of significant
>> /decimal/ digits
> 
> Then, what about sqrt(x)**2 or arcsin(sin(x))? Did that always return 
> the original x?

I'd be impressed if it managed the latter, i.e. arcsin(sin(0))==0 while
arcsin(sin(pi))==pi ;)



From dreamingforward at gmail.com  Sat Oct 27 14:33:51 2012
From: dreamingforward at gmail.com (Mark Adam)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 13:33:51 -0500
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
In-Reply-To: <k6cr4c$4md$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
	<k6cr4c$4md$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAMjeLr9yqPnYSVKDQTzJPfAbxa+67dZhb0TQtDPA+wZyACkRyg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:04 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> On 10/25/2012 9:46 PM, mamboknave at gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> a = [float('nan'), 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
>>>>> a
>>
>> [nan, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
>>>>>
>>>>> a.index(float('nan'))
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>> ValueError: list.index(x): x not in list
>>
>> That means, the function .index() cannot detect nan values.
>> It happens on both Python 2.6 and Python 3.1
>>
>> Is this a bug? Or I am not using .index() correctly?
>
>
> It is a consequence of the following, which some people (but not all)
> believe is mandated by the IEEE standard.
>
>>>> nan = float('nan')
>>>> nan is nan
> True

It should be noted, for the record, that "nan is nan" returning True
has nothing to do with the concept of numbers or the IEEE standard and
is purely a consequence that Python runs on hardware with memory
addresses and such.

>>>> nan == nan
> False

Here, equality, IS about number and this is appropriate and conforms
to the IEEE standard.

>>>> nanlist = [nan]
>>>> nan in nanlist
> True
>>>> nanlist.index(nan)
> 0

Here you just see an phenomenon with the python object/reference
model, which, being as it is, has nothing to do with numbers.  This is
an area which, potentially could be changed in Python without
violating the IEEE standard whatsoever.

Mark


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sat Oct 27 15:15:32 2012
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 14:15:32 -0500
Subject: while expression feature proposal
In-Reply-To: <508b2858$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CAOKWLrERVuT-u=9YZGnQUhWLv2M6F06pU20vG9W1joD9h-SdSQ@mail.gmail.com>	<CALwzidm1zj5ZR4YU-DCWBgY3Q4m=UC0BNs3qJfwYpV+Kh+21cg@mail.gmail.com>	<50886398.5050301@tim.thechases.com>	<mailman.2803.1351119286.27098.python-list@python.org>	<7x7gqf1na2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.2807.1351121989.27098.python-list@python.org>	<k6apaa$eid$1@r03.glglgl.gl>	<mailman.2854.1351183039.27098.python-list@python.org>	<k6c8kh$lqj$1@r03.glglgl.gl>	<f3e3c344-8a7d-46f7-b499-144775c7f9aa@googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2912.1351293180.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508b2858$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <508C32D4.6090109@tim.thechases.com>

On 10/26/12 19:18, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> def iterate_until_none_or_false(func, *args, **kwargs):
>     while True:
>         x = func(*args, **kwargs)
>         # Halt if x is None or False, but not other falsey values.
>         if x is None or x is False:
>             return
>         yield x
> 
> for x in iterate_until_none_or_false(
>         some_function, 1, 2, "c", spam="yummy"):
>     process(x)

I was initially a pretty strong advocate of the proposed "as"
syntax.  However, the more I've thought about it, the more I keep
coming back to how I've solved the problem in the past which is
mostly what Steven suggests here.  There are so many edge-cases and
warts in the "as" syntax; most of which disappear with this
generator+forloop:

- yielding/unpacking multiple results  each time: the "as" syntax
would get really ugly.  Do you test the whole result, or an element
of the result?

- knowing the stopping condition varies: is it when something is
False-ish (an empty string/tuple/list, False, None, etc)?  When it
"is None"?  When it is exactly "False"?

- the whole "x = (foo(bar) as result) if result else None" (or
should that be "x = result if (foo(bar) as result) else None"?)
style/discussion just really looks ugly to me.  Usually I find
Python code quite beautiful and this syntax doesn't resonate as
"beautiful".

To despite my previous excitement, I'm now neutral at best on a
limited "while TERM as VAR:" syntax.

I know this "being persuaded by rational arguments and changing
one's mind" thing is rare on the Intarwebs, so I hope I haven't
upset the natural balance of things too greatly. :-)

-tkc







From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Oct 27 16:26:42 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 07:26:42 +1100
Subject: ctypes free memory which is allocated in C DLL
In-Reply-To: <65b67e08-e06e-4a6a-8bd5-eb6f0f74630f@googlegroups.com>
References: <e5ab59f8-da39-4d50-bca2-63a5f5ec0cc2@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2940.1351349811.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<65b67e08-e06e-4a6a-8bd5-eb6f0f74630f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqTRq2JVU9WAr=h2uxsh6xXOY-OmZr-Z4z8kvLVL6f2nw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 2:40 AM, Ken Chen <zlchen.ken at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, I agree writing a corresponding API to free the memory is the best practice and best bet.
> Sometimes, the third party API may not provide that.

Then that's a majorly dangerous third party API. The only time it's
safe to provide a half-only API like that is when the code gets
statically linked with the application, so there's a guarantee that
malloc() in one place corresponds to free() in another.

> After digging the Python manual again and again.
> I finally figure out why windll.msvcrt.free is failing.
>
> As the manual stated below, the DLL is using another version of msvcrt lib which is different than the builtin windll.msvcrt. After I explicitly load the msvcrt which built the DLL, things are getting function now.

That's still vulnerable. There's really no guarantee about _anything_
with mismatched memory allocators; it's theoretically possible for
compiler switches to change the behaviour of malloc/free such that
compiling malloc in debug mode and free in release mode would crash
your program. (I don't know off-hand of any compilers/libraries that
do that specifically, but there are similar changes done in other
ways.)

If a DLL allocates memory and doesn't deallocate it, lean on its
author to complete the job.

ChrisA


From hansmu at xs4all.nl  Sat Oct 27 17:04:29 2012
From: hansmu at xs4all.nl (Hans Mulder)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 23:04:29 +0200
Subject: Error compiling python3.2.3: architecture of input file is
	incompatible
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2939.1351348062.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2939.1351348062.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <508c4c5d$0$6979$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 27/10/12 16:11:48, Tobias Marquardt wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am trying to compile Python 3.2.3.
> On my 64 bit Ubuntu machine I have no problems but using Ubuntu 32 but I
> get the following error:
> 
> /usr/bin/ld: i386:x86-64 architecture of input file
> `Parser/tokenizer_pgen.o' is incompatible with i386 output
> /usr/bin/ld: i386:x86-64 architecture of input file
> `Parser/printgrammar.o' is incompatible with i386 output
> /usr/bin/ld: i386:x86-64 architecture of input file `Parser/pgenmain.o'
> is incompatible with i386 output
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> make: *** [Parser/pgen] Error 1
> 
> As it's the first time for me compiling python by myself, I have no idea
> how to solve this. So I'm glad to see any suggestions.

It looks like you've copied *.o files from your 64 bit build
to your 32 bit box.  If that's your problem, then the easiest
solution is to delete everything and start over.

Alternatively, you could run "make distclean"; that will delete
a lot of generated files and then re-run configure.  After that,
running "make" should work.


Hope this helps,

-- HansM





From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Sat Oct 27 17:39:18 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 14:39:18 -0700
Subject: Shipping python modules - best practices?
In-Reply-To: <12ec4164-7711-4498-9bee-62c8b242aaa5@googlegroups.com>
References: <12ec4164-7711-4498-9bee-62c8b242aaa5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8B21627F-70C4-48AB-B5E8-8834157B147E@gmail.com>

1) IMHO, these should be two distinct steps. You will definitely want to run unit tests without sdist and likewise, I'm sure you'll want to sdist without unit tests. Personally, if I wanted to combine the two, I'd create tasks in a makefile and just run something along the lines of: make unit sdist

2) I don't understand why you'd want to run unit tests during installation. Unit tests are generally used pre-commit to ensure everything's working as expected in your environment and post commit to ensure there are no knock-on effects caused by your changes to the current code base. Running them during installation seems rather strange and useless to me..

3) Docs are generally stored in a /doc directory at the root of your project. I haven't used pydoc, but if it's anything like sphinx, then best practice is to commit the source for your docs and have the users using the project generate the static content themselves (usually done through a make target).

On 2012-10-27, at 7:02 AM, rambius <rambiusparkisanius at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I developed some moderate-sized python scripts that I would like to distribute as python modules. I have never shipped modules before and I read http://docs.python.org/distutils/index.html. I was able to generate a source distribution, but I still have some questions.
> 
> 1) My module contains some unit tests in separate scripts. I want to execute them when I generate the source distribution. How can I do it?
> 
> 2) When I install 3rd party modules, I see some of them executing their unit tests during the installation. How can I do it? How can I provide an option to the user to ignore possible test failures?
> 
> 3) I generate some html documentation with pydoc. How shall I distribute it with the module?
> 
> Thank you very much in advance.
> 
> Regards
> rambius
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Demian Brecht
@demianbrecht
http://demianbrecht.github.com






From demianbrecht at gmail.com  Sat Oct 27 17:41:29 2012
From: demianbrecht at gmail.com (Demian Brecht)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 14:41:29 -0700
Subject: Shipping python modules - best practices?
In-Reply-To: <8B21627F-70C4-48AB-B5E8-8834157B147E@gmail.com>
References: <12ec4164-7711-4498-9bee-62c8b242aaa5@googlegroups.com>
	<8B21627F-70C4-48AB-B5E8-8834157B147E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C4C0016A-9C7F-4C9B-A1B2-685904A4F759@gmail.com>

I should also mention that these are just my personal best practices that I've put together during my time working with/on OS projects. You'll almost never find two projects with identical packaging, so really at the end of the day, it's totally up to you and your particular project requirements.

On 2012-10-27, at 2:39 PM, Demian Brecht <demianbrecht at gmail.com> wrote:

> 1) IMHO, these should be two distinct steps. You will definitely want to run unit tests without sdist and likewise, I'm sure you'll want to sdist without unit tests. Personally, if I wanted to combine the two, I'd create tasks in a makefile and just run something along the lines of: make unit sdist
> 
> 2) I don't understand why you'd want to run unit tests during installation. Unit tests are generally used pre-commit to ensure everything's working as expected in your environment and post commit to ensure there are no knock-on effects caused by your changes to the current code base. Running them during installation seems rather strange and useless to me..
> 
> 3) Docs are generally stored in a /doc directory at the root of your project. I haven't used pydoc, but if it's anything like sphinx, then best practice is to commit the source for your docs and have the users using the project generate the static content themselves (usually done through a make target).
> 
> On 2012-10-27, at 7:02 AM, rambius <rambiusparkisanius at gmail.com> wrote:

Demian Brecht
@demianbrecht
http://demianbrecht.github.com






From nobody at nowhere.com  Sat Oct 27 18:26:29 2012
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 23:26:29 +0100
Subject: ctypes free memory which is allocated in C DLL
References: <e5ab59f8-da39-4d50-bca2-63a5f5ec0cc2@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2012.10.27.22.26.29.657000@nowhere.com>

On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 07:42:01 -0700, zlchen.ken wrote:

> I have a DLL which written in C language, one of the function is to
> allocate a structure, fill the members and then return the pointer of
> the structure. 
> 
> After Python called this function, and done with the returned structure,
> I would like to free the returned structure. How can I achieve this ?
> Basically, I tried that I wrote a corresponding free interface in the
> DLL, it works, but calling the libc.free in Python doesn't work.
> 
> my_dll.return_structure_ptr.restypes = POINTER(Dummy) res_ptr =
> my_dll.return_structure_ptr() windll.msvcrt.free(res_ptr)  <==== doesn't
> work, memory violation my_dll.free_dummy_struture(res_ptr)  <== This
> works.

On Windows, a process may have multiple versions of the MSVCRT DLL (which
provides malloc/free). If an executable or DLL is linked against multiple
DLLs, each DLL could be using a different version of MSVCRT.

Different versions of MSVCRT may have separate heaps, so anything which
is allocated with malloc() (or calloc() or realloc()) from a specific
version of MSVCRT must be passed to free() from the same version of MSVCRT.
windll.msvcrt refers to the version of MSVCRT against which the Python DLL
is linked, which isn't necessarily the version against which my_dll is
linked.

If a function in a DLL returns a pointer to memory which it allocated
with malloc(), that DLL must also provide a function which can be used to
free that memory. It can't leave it to the application (or higher-level
DLL) to call free(), because the application may not be using the same
version of MSVCRT as the DLL.



From cs at zip.com.au  Sat Oct 27 20:35:23 2012
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 11:35:23 +1100
Subject: SSH Connection with Python
In-Reply-To: <k6gje2$cpn$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <k6gje2$cpn$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20121028003523.GA26034@cskk.homeip.net>

On 27Oct2012 14:18, Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:
| On 10/27/2012 02:21 AM, Roy Smith wrote:
| > In article <mailman.2915.1351294793.27098.python-list at python.org>,
| >   Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:
| >
| >> Another problem is, that paramiko depends on pycrypto 2.1+
| >> which doesn't exist as binary release for python 2.7
| >
| > I'm running paramiko-1.7.6 with python 2.7.3 on my Ubunto Precise box.
| > I'm reasonably sure all I did was "pip install paramiko".
| 
| Apologies.  I failed to mention, that I was talking about Windows not Linux.
| 
| I use Python for applications, that should work under Linux and under 
| Windows.
| 
| > But, keep in mind that fabric depends on paramiko.  If you can't get
| > paramiko installed, you probably can't get fabric either.
| >
| Thanks, that's good to know, so I don't have to bother looking at farbic 
| (at least not as solution on windows python 2.7 without having to try to 
| recompile pycrypto myself)

Many years ago we ran an ssh executable on Windows; it was a tiny
standalone kit consisting, IIRC, of the Cygwin libc and ssh. Or you
could just install Cygwin...

That would let you use Python's subprocess module to invoke ssh and
dispatch your command.
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

There is a fine line between idiocy and genius.  We aim to erase that line.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Oct 27 20:49:19 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Oct 2012 00:49:19 GMT
Subject: attaching names to subexpressions
References: <a533d812-480e-479b-9210-7097c2d70d73@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2934.1351343030.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <508c810f$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 15:03:38 +0200, Gelonida N wrote:

> line = complex_exression
> while line:
>      do something with(line)
>      line = complex_expression
> 
> violates clearly the DRY principle  and the risk to change one line but
> not the other is high.

Only if the change is being made by an incompetent programmer.

DRY is not a law of physics. Not every expression needs to be written 
once and exactly once or your code will become an unmaintainable mess. In 
the example shown, the two instances of the expression are separated by 
TWO lines -- if somebody edits one without editing the other, they are 
probably not fit to be editing the code in the first place.

Repeated code is a code-smell, not a crime. You should always be on the 
look-out for ways to minimise repeated code, but that doesn't mean every 
time you see some trivial chunk of code you need to refactor it out.

If "complex_expression" actually is complex, then it should be factored 
out into a function:

line = function(x, y, z)
while line:
     do something with(line)
     line = function(x, y, z)

so that the actual complexity is in one place, and any changes to it 
needs to be made in one place. If it is not actually complex, then who 
cares? So what if you have to write "line = next(iterator).strip()" twice?

If the body of the while loop is big enough that there genuinely is a 
risk that you won't notice the two assignments to line, then you should 
refactor the body of the while loop. Or change the loop:

while True:
     line = function(x, y, z)
     if not line:
         break
     big ugly block of code


There you go. DRY.

There is nothing in this proposal for while assignment that cannot be 
*trivially* solved using existing syntax.


> The 'canonical way'
> while True:
>      line = complex_expression
>      if not line:
>          break
>      do_something_with(line)
> 
> avoids this problem, but I was never really convinced about the beauty /
> readbility of this construct.

It's sure as hell more beautiful and readable than assignment as an 
expression.


> One misses the exit condition of the while loop on the first glance.

If we are going to judge code on the ability of people to take a quick 
glance and immediately understand it, then pretty much nothing but 
trivial one-liners will pass. Certainly assignment as an expression won't:

while (look_ahead(it) and next(it) or default).strip().lower() as line:
    spam(x)

is easy to miss that it is an assignment to x. *Much* easier than missing 
an indented "break".


> In
> my opinion I shouldn't be obliged to read any of the indented lines of
> the while statement on a first 'visual' pass through somebody elses code
> and still be able to see what the loop iterates through.

Fine. Then write your code as:

line = function(x, y, z)
while line:
     do something with(line)
     line = function(x, y, z)


> Following looks in my opinion nicer.
> 
> while complex_expression as line:
>      do_something_with(line)


That's only because you don't actually have a complex expression. Just 
writing "complex_expression" doesn't make it complex -- it's actually 
trivially simple, a mere rebinding of a name to a name, no more "complex" 
than 

while x as y:
    ...

See how easy to read it is! Well duh. But write out an *actual* complex 
expression, and the "as name" can easily disappear into the noise.

Complex expressions are a code smell at least as bad as violating DRY, 
and frequently much worse. If the expression is too complex to write 
twice, refactor it into a function, *and write tests for the function*. 
Otherwise that complex expression is a bug waiting to bite, whether you 
write it once or twice.


-- 
Steven


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sat Oct 27 21:57:05 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 18:57:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: attaching names to subexpressions
References: <a533d812-480e-479b-9210-7097c2d70d73@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2934.1351343030.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508c810f$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <826dd53a-e514-47b7-bd4d-42af1a126660@ph9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 28, 5:49?am, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt... at pearwood.info> wrote:

> It's sure as hell more beautiful and readable than assignment as an
> expression.
>
> If we are going to judge code on the ability of people to take a quick
> glance and immediately understand it, then pretty much nothing but
> trivial one-liners will pass. Certainly assignment as an expression won't:
>
> while (look_ahead(it) and next(it) or default).strip().lower() as line:
> ? ? spam(x)
>
> is easy to miss that it is an assignment to x. *Much* easier than missing
> an indented "break".
>
> > In
> > my opinion I shouldn't be obliged to read any of the indented lines of
> > the while statement on a first 'visual' pass through somebody elses code
> > and still be able to see what the loop iterates through.
>
> Fine. Then write your code as:
>
> line = function(x, y, z)
> while line:
> ? ? ?do something with(line)
> ? ? ?line = function(x, y, z)
>
> > Following looks in my opinion nicer.
>
> > while complex_expression as line:
> > ? ? ?do_something_with(line)
>
> That's only because you don't actually have a complex expression. Just
> writing "complex_expression" doesn't make it complex -- it's actually
> trivially simple, a mere rebinding of a name to a name, no more "complex"
> than
>
> while x as y:
> ? ? ...
>
> See how easy to read it is! Well duh. But write out an *actual* complex
> expression, and the "as name" can easily disappear into the noise.
>
> Complex expressions are a code smell at least as bad as violating DRY,
> and frequently much worse. If the expression is too complex to write
> twice, refactor it into a function, *and write tests for the function*.
> Otherwise that complex expression is a bug waiting to bite, whether you
> write it once or twice.

The details of the various syntaxes proposed Ive not fully gone into
and I am not discussing.
The general notion of having assignments inside expressions would put
python into the C bracket
I had written about the 'all-hell-breaks-loose' when using C to teach
programming:
http://www.the-magus.in/Publications/chor.pdf

That paper is dated... if C is dated.  Otherwise I would request
people having this idea to read it.

In particular, with respect to this suggestion, heres how things tend
to pan out when the language allows assignments inside expressions:
You cant really *teach* students to use
i=i+1;
instead of
i++;
because its unidiomatic C.

And then someone (with no malice just ignorance) writes:
i=i++;
What does the teacher do? You can simply say: "Dont do that!!" and
confuse the students with what exactly is the set of "Dont-dos" (or
worse leave them smug that they understand when they dont)

Or you can explain why it could increment i or leave it unchanged and
so is indeterminate.

So I would take the 'muscular' approach -- Show expressions like:
i=i++-1;
1. Explain why it could increment, decrement or leave i unchanged
2. Elaborate compilation strategies for each of the above
3. Work out sufficient conditions for the behavior of an expression to
be determinate, viz. Variables that are assigned inside an expression,
should have only a single occurence, multiply occurring variables
should not be assigned. [And assignment means all forms: = += ++ etc)

Naturally when students are taught like this, they tend to become
cowboys -- learning all kinds of tricks of a narrow and useless sort
and ignoring more important aspects of their studies.  And if python
chooses such a direction its sad (for us teachers)

Having said this I need to add: the imperatives of teaching and
professional development are not the same.  If professional developers
feel that adding confusing semantics for the sake of saving lines of
code is a benediction... Well...


From zlchen.ken at gmail.com  Sat Oct 27 22:05:11 2012
From: zlchen.ken at gmail.com (zlchen.ken at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 19:05:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ctypes free memory which is allocated in C DLL
In-Reply-To: <pan.2012.10.27.22.26.29.657000@nowhere.com>
References: <e5ab59f8-da39-4d50-bca2-63a5f5ec0cc2@googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2012.10.27.22.26.29.657000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <874177be-088b-4039-a811-1be3b96355a8@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, October 28, 2012 6:26:28 AM UTC+8, Nobody wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 07:42:01 -0700, zlchen.ken wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > I have a DLL which written in C language, one of the function is to
> 
> > allocate a structure, fill the members and then return the pointer of
> 
> > the structure. 
> 
> > 
> 
> > After Python called this function, and done with the returned structure,
> 
> > I would like to free the returned structure. How can I achieve this ?
> 
> > Basically, I tried that I wrote a corresponding free interface in the
> 
> > DLL, it works, but calling the libc.free in Python doesn't work.
> 
> > 
> 
> > my_dll.return_structure_ptr.restypes = POINTER(Dummy) res_ptr =
> 
> > my_dll.return_structure_ptr() windll.msvcrt.free(res_ptr)  <==== doesn't
> 
> > work, memory violation my_dll.free_dummy_struture(res_ptr)  <== This
> 
> > works.
> 
> 
> 
> On Windows, a process may have multiple versions of the MSVCRT DLL (which
> 
> provides malloc/free). If an executable or DLL is linked against multiple
> 
> DLLs, each DLL could be using a different version of MSVCRT.
> 
> 
> 
> Different versions of MSVCRT may have separate heaps, so anything which
> 
> is allocated with malloc() (or calloc() or realloc()) from a specific
> 
> version of MSVCRT must be passed to free() from the same version of MSVCRT.
> 
> windll.msvcrt refers to the version of MSVCRT against which the Python DLL
> 
> is linked, which isn't necessarily the version against which my_dll is
> 
> linked.
> 
> 
> 
> If a function in a DLL returns a pointer to memory which it allocated
> 
> with malloc(), that DLL must also provide a function which can be used to
> 
> free that memory. It can't leave it to the application (or higher-level
> 
> DLL) to call free(), because the application may not be using the same
> 
> version of MSVCRT as the DLL.

Thank you for the details.
This is really useful!


From jannidis at gmail.com  Sat Oct 27 22:27:13 2012
From: jannidis at gmail.com (jannidis at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 19:27:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: problems with xml parsing (python 3.3)
Message-ID: <97d8de0d-3daa-49be-a91f-c65fc8a9019f@googlegroups.com>

Hello all, 

I am new to Python and have a problem with the behaviour of the xml parser. Assume we have this xml document:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<bibliography>
    <entry>
            Title of the first book.
        </entry>
        <entry>
            <coauthored/>
Title of the second book.
        </entry>
</bibliography>    


If I now check for the text of all 'entry' nodes, the text for the node with the empty element isn't shown



import xml.etree.ElementTree as ET
tree = ET.ElementTree(file='test.xml')
root = tree.getroot()
resultSet = root.findall(".//entry")
for r in resultSet:
	print (r.text)


From jannidis at gmail.com  Sat Oct 27 22:30:22 2012
From: jannidis at gmail.com (jannidis at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 19:30:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: problems with xml parsing (python 3.3)
In-Reply-To: <97d8de0d-3daa-49be-a91f-c65fc8a9019f@googlegroups.com>
References: <97d8de0d-3daa-49be-a91f-c65fc8a9019f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8937bca3-2443-4ee9-aea5-6f1924bdcf66@googlegroups.com>

To my understanding the empty element is a child of entry as is the text node. 
Is there anything I am doing wrong here? Any help is appreciated,

Fotis


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Oct 27 23:08:55 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 03:08:55 +0000
Subject: problems with xml parsing (python 3.3)
In-Reply-To: <97d8de0d-3daa-49be-a91f-c65fc8a9019f@googlegroups.com>
References: <97d8de0d-3daa-49be-a91f-c65fc8a9019f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <508CA1C7.2040405@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-28 02:27, jannidis at gmail.com wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I am new to Python and have a problem with the behaviour of the xml parser. Assume we have this xml document:
>
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
> <bibliography>
>      <entry>
>              Title of the first book.
>          </entry>
>          <entry>
>              <coauthored/>
> Title of the second book.
>          </entry>
> </bibliography>
>
>
> If I now check for the text of all 'entry' nodes, the text for the node with the empty element isn't shown
>
>
>
> import xml.etree.ElementTree as ET
> tree = ET.ElementTree(file='test.xml')
> root = tree.getroot()
> resultSet = root.findall(".//entry")
> for r in resultSet:
> 	print (r.text)
>
It _is_ shown, it's just that it's all whitespace:

 >>> for r in resultSet:
	print(ascii(r.text))

	
'\n            Title of the first book.\n        '
'\n            '



From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Sun Oct 28 01:57:45 2012
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 01:57:45 -0400
Subject: attaching names to subexpressions
In-Reply-To: <508c810f$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <a533d812-480e-479b-9210-7097c2d70d73@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2934.1351343030.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508c810f$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJ+gGGFv2B2okkW+x1HCmzOHF48m0cVykyAn_BW=720FOw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 8:49 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 15:03:38 +0200, Gelonida N wrote:
>
>> line = complex_exression
>> while line:
>>      do something with(line)
>>      line = complex_expression
>>
>> violates clearly the DRY principle  and the risk to change one line but
>> not the other is high.
-- snip --
> while True:
>      line = function(x, y, z)
>      if not line:
>          break
>      big ugly block of code
>
>
> There you go. DRY.

>> The 'canonical way'
>> while True:
>>      line = complex_expression
>>      if not line:
>>          break
>>      do_something_with(line)
>>
>> avoids this problem, but I was never really convinced about the beauty /
>> readbility of this construct.
>>
>> In
>> my opinion I shouldn't be obliged to read any of the indented lines of
>> the while statement on a first 'visual' pass through somebody elses code
>> and still be able to see what the loop iterates through.
>
> Fine. Then write your code as:
>
> line = function(x, y, z)
> while line:
>      do something with(line)
>      line = function(x, y, z)
>

We have a problem, and two solutions. Solution 1 has downside A, and
solution 2 has downside B. If he complains about downside A, you say,
well, use solution 2. If he complains about downside B, you say, well,
use solution 1.

What if he wants to avoid both downsides A and B? What solution does
he use then?

-- Devin


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Oct 28 02:01:52 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 17:01:52 +1100
Subject: attaching names to subexpressions
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJ+gGGFv2B2okkW+x1HCmzOHF48m0cVykyAn_BW=720FOw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a533d812-480e-479b-9210-7097c2d70d73@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2934.1351343030.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508c810f$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+gGGFv2B2okkW+x1HCmzOHF48m0cVykyAn_BW=720FOw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo87sRE1xiP8ijFULuC42um+0Gg-d0iha5mkxFJh50iDA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Devin Jeanpierre
<jeanpierreda at gmail.com> wrote:
> What if he wants to avoid both downsides A and B? What solution does
> he use then?

He switches to a language whose BDFL is not Steven D'Aprano. :)

No offense meant Steven...

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Oct 28 02:59:52 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Oct 2012 06:59:52 GMT
Subject: attaching names to subexpressions
References: <a533d812-480e-479b-9210-7097c2d70d73@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2934.1351343030.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508c810f$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2950.1351403908.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <508cd7e7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 01:57:45 -0400, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:

> We have a problem, and two solutions. Solution 1 has downside A, and
> solution 2 has downside B. If he complains about downside A, you say,
> well, use solution 2. If he complains about downside B, you say, well,
> use solution 1.
> 
> What if he wants to avoid both downsides A and B? What solution does he
> use then?

"I want to have my cake, and eat it too." Every solution has some 
downside. Just because no other solution is perfect (whatever that 
means!) doesn't mean we must keep adding more and more ways to solve the 
same problem into a language.

The proposed solution, assignment as an expression, has multiple 
downsides:

* Since it doesn't actually exist yet, you can't use it. It's 
  not a solution until *at least* Python 3.4. The first alpha 
  is scheduled in August 2013, the first stable release is not
  due until end of Feb 2014. So you have to wait 16 months 
  before you can use this in production code.

* If you support multiple versions of Python, you can't use 
  this. Assuming, conservatively, that you need to support 
  the current version of Python plus two older versions, that
  means you can't use this until Python 3.6, which is probably
  due out in 2017. "Wait five years" is hardly a solution for
  code you are writing today.

* You can't just wave a magic wand and have Python support this
  new syntax. Somebody has to write a PEP and get it approved;
  somebody has to modify the parser, write documentation for it, 
  write tests, ensure it doesn't break anything.

* And once it does exist, it adds to the complexity of Python
  the language. People learning the language have one more
  feature to learn. Every time you write a loop, you have one
  more decision to make -- should I write this loop using A, 
  or B, or C?

* Like all features, it is open to abuse. Does the benefit 
  from the good uses outweigh the cost of the abuses? Given
  that I think the benefit is at best minor, I doubt that it 
  will outweigh the harm to readability and maintainability
  when it is abused.

* What unexpected problems is this going to cause? I don't 
  know -- but that's the point, if they exist they will be
  *unexpected*. Python 3 introduced the literal ... as an 
  alias for Ellipsis. Nobody realised that this would have
  consequences for doctests until somebody reported a 
  problem, by which time it was too late.

All these downsides make the barrier to entry for new syntax very high. 
Python is a 20 year old mature language. Most, perhaps all, of the low-
hanging fruit syntax-wise has been picked. Don't be surprised when
there is opposition to adding new syntax. With very few exceptions, new 
syntax has real costs and little or questionable benefit.

Adding syntax is not free, it costs somebody time and effort. Unless the 
syntax is a big win, that time and effort is probably better put into 
fixing bugs. There is a great shortage of time and manpower for the 
Python developers, there is a list of open bugs half a mile long. Every 
minute spent adding new syntax for some minor benefit is time that could 
be fixing bugs that cause actual problems with real-world code, not just 
to satisfy some minor concern about DRY purity.



-- 
Steven


From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Sun Oct 28 03:12:49 2012
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (F.R.)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 08:12:49 +0100
Subject: attaching names to subexpressions
In-Reply-To: <CABicbJ+gGGFv2B2okkW+x1HCmzOHF48m0cVykyAn_BW=720FOw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a533d812-480e-479b-9210-7097c2d70d73@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2934.1351343030.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508c810f$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+gGGFv2B2okkW+x1HCmzOHF48m0cVykyAn_BW=720FOw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508CDAF1.3010703@bluewin.ch>

On 10/28/2012 06:57 AM, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
> line = function(x, y, z)
> >while line:
> >      do something with(line)
> >      line = function(x, y, z)


How about:

line = True
while line:
	line = function(x, y, z)
	do something with(line)

?

Frederic



From dieter at handshake.de  Sun Oct 28 03:30:36 2012
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 08:30:36 +0100
Subject: problems with xml parsing (python 3.3)
References: <97d8de0d-3daa-49be-a91f-c65fc8a9019f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <871ugjdper.fsf@handshake.de>

jannidis at gmail.com writes:

> I am new to Python and have a problem with the behaviour of the xml parser. Assume we have this xml document:
>
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
> <bibliography>
>     <entry>
>             Title of the first book.
>         </entry>
>         <entry>
>             <coauthored/>
> Title of the second book.
>         </entry>
> </bibliography>    
>
>
> If I now check for the text of all 'entry' nodes, the text for the node with the empty element isn't shown
>
>
>
> import xml.etree.ElementTree as ET
> tree = ET.ElementTree(file='test.xml')
> root = tree.getroot()
> resultSet = root.findall(".//entry")
> for r in resultSet:
> 	print (r.text)

I do not know about "xml.etree" but the (said) quite compatible
"lxml.etree" handles text nodes in a quite different way from
that of "DOM": they are *not* considered children of the parent
element but are attached as attributes "text" and "tail" to either
the container element (if the first DOM node is a text node) or the preceeding
element, otherwise.

Your code snippet suggests that "xml.etree" behaves identically in
this respect. In this case, you would find "Title of the second book"
as the "tail" attribute of the element "coauthored".



From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Sun Oct 28 04:12:12 2012
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 04:12:12 -0400
Subject: attaching names to subexpressions
In-Reply-To: <508cd7e7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <a533d812-480e-479b-9210-7097c2d70d73@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2934.1351343030.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508c810f$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2950.1351403908.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508cd7e7$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJJQvPgvih+RkwFkki9EGjjXA6L78KpVTB4S0SfaGbYCsQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 2:59 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 01:57:45 -0400, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
>
>> We have a problem, and two solutions. Solution 1 has downside A, and
>> solution 2 has downside B. If he complains about downside A, you say,
>> well, use solution 2. If he complains about downside B, you say, well,
>> use solution 1.
>>
>> What if he wants to avoid both downsides A and B? What solution does he
>> use then?
>
> "I want to have my cake, and eat it too." Every solution has some
> downside.

And yet you claimed all of their problems could be solved, without
adding any new syntax, "trivially".

Perhaps what you meant is that it's trivial to ignore their concerns
and use existing syntax.

> Just because no other solution is perfect (whatever that
> means!) doesn't mean we must keep adding more and more ways to solve the
> same problem into a language.

A fair point.

> The proposed solution, assignment as an expression, has multiple
> downsides:

Almost all of your "downsides" are nonspecific costs to implementing
new features. Which is to say, you can't think of any downside to this
approach at all, other than it being "open to abuse".

On the other hand, it'd probably be pretty useless if it weren't. :)

> All these downsides make the barrier to entry for new syntax very high.
> Python is a 20 year old mature language. Most, perhaps all, of the low-
> hanging fruit syntax-wise has been picked.

Absolutely. Especially considering that this is a "small" and obvious
change to Python, I hope nobody is holding their breath for this to be
added.

> Don't be surprised when
> there is opposition to adding new syntax. With very few exceptions, new
> syntax has real costs and little or questionable benefit.

Surprised? I think you've given me this speech twice now.

-- Devin


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Oct 28 05:26:14 2012
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 02:26:14 -0700
Subject: fastest data / database format for reading large files
In-Reply-To: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23DFDFD86@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
References: <76D03718A3233B4C8CC236C169B535B5A23DFDFD86@AUSP01VMBX08.collaborationhost.net>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRSeU+ayjhXUY8Riz_odKWWouJdOpCPQnoJZsOP_BVFFgA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Pradipto Banerjee
<pradipto.banerjee at adainvestments.com> wrote:
> I am working with a series of large files with sizes 4 to 10GB and may need to read these files repeated. What data format (i.e. pickle, json, csv, etc.) is considered the fastest for reading via python?

Pickle /ought/ to be fastest, since it's binary (unless you use the
oldest protocol version) and native to Python. Be sure to specify
HIGHEST_PROTOCOL and use cPickle.
http://docs.python.org/2/library/pickle.html#module-cPickle
http://docs.python.org/2/library/pickle.html#pickle.HIGHEST_PROTOCOL

You might consider using SQLite (or some other database) if you will
be doing queries over the data that would be amenable to SQL or
similar.
http://docs.python.org/2/library/sqlite3.html

Cheers,
Chris

P.S. The verbose disclaimer at the end of your emails is kinda annoying...


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Oct 28 06:44:40 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 21:44:40 +1100
Subject: attaching names to subexpressions
In-Reply-To: <508CDAF1.3010703@bluewin.ch>
References: <a533d812-480e-479b-9210-7097c2d70d73@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2934.1351343030.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508c810f$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CABicbJ+gGGFv2B2okkW+x1HCmzOHF48m0cVykyAn_BW=720FOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508CDAF1.3010703@bluewin.ch>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoa_xZ3Xw5-GqAcnJKen0L8UGbfGh_caNhQ1fiduXrxew@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 6:12 PM, F.R. <anthra.norell at bluewin.ch> wrote:
>
> How about:
>
> line = True
> while line:
>
>         line = function(x, y, z)
>         do something with(line)
>
> ?

That's going to go through the body of the loop with a false line
before breaking out. In some situations that's not a problem, but it's
distinctly different, so it's not a drop-in replacement for the
others.

ChrisA


From d at davea.name  Sun Oct 28 07:18:01 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 07:18:01 -0400
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <50879555.7000200@it.uu.se>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se> <5086C156.40707@tim.thechases.com>
	<5086D13F.80006@it.uu.se> <5086DA4D.4060204@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2683.1351018926.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr4ooah0t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <50879555.7000200@it.uu.se>
Message-ID: <508D1469.5060109@davea.name>

On 10/24/2012 03:14 AM, Virgil Stokes wrote:
> On 24-Oct-2012 01:46, Paul Rubin wrote:
>> Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se> writes:
>>> Yes, I do wish to inverse the order,  but the "forward in time" file
>>> will be in binary.
>> I really think it will be simplest to just write the file in forward
>> order, then use mmap to read it one record at a time.  It might be
>> possible to squeeze out a little more performance with reordering tricks
>> but that's the first thing to try.
> Thanks Paul,
> I am working on this approach now...

If you're using mmap to map the whole file, you'll need 64bit Windows to
start with.  I'd be interested to know if Windows will allow you to mmap
100gb at one stroke.  Have you tried it, or are you starting by figuring
how to access the data from the mmap?

-- 

DaveA



From rmorgan466 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 28 08:26:32 2012
From: rmorgan466 at gmail.com (Rita)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 08:26:32 -0400
Subject: ANN: Urwid 1.1.0 - Usability and Documentation
In-Reply-To: <1925719556.1474430.1351069734648.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
References: <CAA3rUNd0e51hOe_qe_DcbF2mH6+QT=ZOa4CkRmzAqDyO=yH0pg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1925719556.1474430.1351069734648.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <CAOF-KfiAcisgnBc07ChJ=dbx7GV8JpvHKwqy565=Znznp9yagQ@mail.gmail.com>

+1

great library.

I suppose it will never be in the standard library? :p


On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 5:08 AM, Jean-Michel Pichavant <
jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> > Announcing Urwid 1.1.0
> > ----------------------
> >
> > Urwid home page:
> >   http://excess.org/urwid/
> >
> > Manual:
> >   http://excess.org/urwid/docs/
> >
> > Package:
> >   http://pypi.python.org/pypi/urwid/1.1.0
> >
> >
>
> [snip]
>
> Hi,
>
> I just had a look at it. Amazing job.
>
>
> JM
>
>
>
> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE:
>
> The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may
> also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify
> the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other
> person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any
> medium. Thank you.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
--- Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.--
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From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Sun Oct 28 09:07:52 2012
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 06:07:52 -0700
Subject: a.index(float('nan')) fails
In-Reply-To: <5089f662$0$29984$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <bd80bfd0-b423-418f-a338-fea626d50093@googlegroups.com>
	<5089f662$0$29984$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <508D2E28.4000405@stoneleaf.us>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> The list.index method tests for the item with equality. Since NANs are 
> mandated to compare unequal to anything, including themselves, index 
> cannot match them.

This is incorrect.  .index() uses identity first, then equality, and 
will match the same NaN in a list.  The OP's problem was in using a 
different NaN.

Having said that, your find_nan() solution is probably the one to use 
anyway.

> from math import isnan
> 
> def find_nan(seq):
>     """Return the index of the first NAN in seq, otherwise None."""
>     for i, x in enumerate(seq):
>         if isnan(x):
>             return i
> 
> 
> For old versions of Python that don't provide an isnan function, you can 
> do this:
> 
> def isnan(x):
>     return x != x



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Sun Oct 28 09:31:10 2012
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 06:31:10 -0700
Subject: Style help for a Smalltalk-hack
In-Reply-To: <168DF25C-0C43-45F2-BEDC-17AC4210F207@gmail.com>
References: <168DF25C-0C43-45F2-BEDC-17AC4210F207@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508D339E.9020001@stoneleaf.us>

Travis Griggs wrote:
> I'm writing some code that does a structured read from formatted binary file. The code I came up with looks like:
> 
> # get the first four bytes, the first gap field
> chunk = byteStream.read(4)
> while chunk:
>     # interpret the gap bytes
>     gap, = struct.unpack('>I', chunk)
>     # suck off the valveCount
>     valveCount, = struct.unpack('>I', byteStream.read(4))
>     # collect the next valveCount signatures
>     signatures = [struct.unpack('>I', byteStream.read(4))[0] for _ in range(valveCount)]
>     self.script.append(ScriptSpan(gap=gap, valveSet=signatures))
>     # now get the next 4 bytes for the gap of the next iteration, it'll be empty if we're at end
>     chunk = byteStream.read(4)
> 
> I can't help but thinking that there's some better way (i.e. more pythonic) to do this that doesn't involve having to use another module (Construct) or exploring generators or something like that. What bugs me about it is that there is two different styles for reading/decoding values from the byte stream. valveCount and signatures are both paired invocations of unpack() and read(). But to detect the end of the stream (file), I have to split the read() and unpack() of the gap value across 3 different lines of the code, and they don't even sit adjacent to each other.

What do you have against generators?  ;)

How about an iterator approach:

8<-------------------------------------------------------
class Gap_Valve_Reader(object):  # untested
     def __init__(self, filename):
         self.byteStream = open(filename)
     def __iter__(self):
         return self
     def __next__(self):                 # python 3 name
         chunk = self.byteStream.read(8)
         if not chunk:
             self.byteStream.close()
             raise StopIteration
         gap, valveCount = struct.unpack('>II', chunk)
         signatures = struct.unpack('>%sI' % valveCount,
                     self.byteStream.read(4 * valueCount))
         return gap, signatures
     next = __next__  # python 2 name
8<-------------------------------------------------------

then your main code can look like:

8<-------------------------------------------------------
gvr = Gap_Valve_Reader('binary_file.bin')
for gap, signatures in gvr:
     self.script.append(ScriptSpan(gap=gap, valveSet=signatures))
8<-------------------------------------------------------

Don't forget to add error checking where appropriate.

~Ethan~


From vs at it.uu.se  Sun Oct 28 10:20:45 2012
From: vs at it.uu.se (Virgil Stokes)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 15:20:45 +0100
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <508D1469.5060109@davea.name>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se> <5086C156.40707@tim.thechases.com>
	<5086D13F.80006@it.uu.se> <5086DA4D.4060204@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2683.1351018926.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr4ooah0t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<50879555.7000200@it.uu.se> <508D1469.5060109@davea.name>
Message-ID: <508D3F3D.9020303@it.uu.se>

On 28-Oct-2012 12:18, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 10/24/2012 03:14 AM, Virgil Stokes wrote:
>> On 24-Oct-2012 01:46, Paul Rubin wrote:
>>> Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se> writes:
>>>> Yes, I do wish to inverse the order,  but the "forward in time" file
>>>> will be in binary.
>>> I really think it will be simplest to just write the file in forward
>>> order, then use mmap to read it one record at a time.  It might be
>>> possible to squeeze out a little more performance with reordering tricks
>>> but that's the first thing to try.
>> Thanks Paul,
>> I am working on this approach now...
> If you're using mmap to map the whole file, you'll need 64bit Windows to
> start with.  I'd be interested to know if Windows will allow you to mmap
> 100gb at one stroke.  Have you tried it, or are you starting by figuring
> how to access the data from the mmap?
Thanks very much for pursuing my query, Dave.

I have not tried it yet --- temporarily side-tracked; but, I will post my 
findings on this issue.


From tm at tobix.eu  Sun Oct 28 11:43:32 2012
From: tm at tobix.eu (Tobias Marquardt)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:43:32 +0100
Subject: Error compiling python3.2.3: architecture of input file is
	incompatible
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11227.1351389603.27097.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.11227.1351389603.27097.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <508D52A4.2010101@tobix.eu>

Am 28.10.2012 03:00, schrieb python-list-request at python.org:
> It looks like you've copied *.o files from your 64 bit build
> to your 32 bit box.  If that's your problem, then the easiest
> solution is to delete everything and start over.
>
> Alternatively, you could run "make distclean"; that will delete
> a lot of generated files and then re-run configure.  After that,
> running "make" should work.
>
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> -- HansM

I was pretty sure I didn't copy the files from the 64 build. Anyway, 
"make distclean" solved the problem.

Thank you!


Tobias


From joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com  Sun Oct 28 12:15:31 2012
From: joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com (Joshua Landau)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:15:31 +0000
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid=RNzAuqJq9Z1crwFBA3iwRZX4RwuqFUQYfEuXEzDv-HA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <988533988.834634.1350400381609.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<507D7B92.9070704@gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=RNzAuqJq9Z1crwFBA3iwRZX4RwuqFUQYfEuXEzDv-HA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1F8qUT9MJmBViWx4vPiA0FbgivKmaW2hucTbg8kFwbMJcJQw@mail.gmail.com>

On 16 October 2012 18:23, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 9:21 AM, Demian Brecht <demianbrecht at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > There's a small light somewhere deep down that says maybe this is just
> > someone quite misdirected. A brief search shows that he has multiple
> > domains, all with the same type of design. I would be hard pressed to
> think
> > that someone would go to that extent just to troll a list.
> >
> > Meh, maybe it's my good nature :P
>
> My theory for a while now has been that Mr. Hutto is probably an
> enterprising teenager.  His desire to build a web development company
> is sincere and should be encouraged, but his lack of experience is
> readily apparent, as is his rather crude behavior on list.
>

I feel necessity  to argue against this point.

It is a common thing to stereotype teens in this way - but, being teen
myself, I feel one should try to avoid it. It's painful to watch every time
someone claims "he can't be a teenager - his spelling/grammar is too good"
or any derivation of it, as with the inverse concept that the uneducated
are always teenagers.

i have techers who type lke this, and I have teachers who type
very professionally.
I have peers of my age group who meticulously craft
their online conversations, n i no BFFs who dun b like that.

How someone speaks on the internet seems to me proportional almost entirely
to their intelligence*, not to their wisdom. Sure, there is an age where
one, no matter how bright, will speak like trash, but this normally
coincides with an inability to speak well, too. Most older teenagers have
as good a grasp on language as they will ever learn, so it hardly applies
to them.

* Note that I speak not of IQ or problem-solving ability, but more of a
general social intelligence that can be seen in almost any poster on this
list.
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From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Oct 28 12:29:07 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:29:07 +0000
Subject: Where are documentation for Gnome
In-Reply-To: <CAE7MaQaVdFKn5FibrNi=gZNZLcby+F271bo8wa5XK4qEOpDZpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE7MaQaVdFKn5FibrNi=gZNZLcby+F271bo8wa5XK4qEOpDZpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k6jmbt$v9h$2@ger.gmane.org>

On 13/10/2012 18:49, Santosh Kumar wrote:
>

Try your local garden centre.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sun Oct 28 13:57:34 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 11:57:34 -0600
Subject: OT Questions
In-Reply-To: <CAN1F8qUT9MJmBViWx4vPiA0FbgivKmaW2hucTbg8kFwbMJcJQw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <988533988.834634.1350400381609.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<507D7B92.9070704@gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=RNzAuqJq9Z1crwFBA3iwRZX4RwuqFUQYfEuXEzDv-HA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN1F8qUT9MJmBViWx4vPiA0FbgivKmaW2hucTbg8kFwbMJcJQw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkb46DuNQ0Lf43tRm_2h2r52J5Fv9iqVYBA4WpTe=Z7tA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Joshua Landau
<joshua.landau.ws at gmail.com> wrote:
> I feel necessity  to argue against this point.
>
> It is a common thing to stereotype teens in this way - but, being teen
> myself, I feel one should try to avoid it. It's painful to watch every time
> someone claims "he can't be a teenager - his spelling/grammar is too good"
> or any derivation of it, as with the inverse concept that the uneducated are
> always teenagers.
>
> i have techers who type lke this, and I have teachers who type very
> professionally.
> I have peers of my age group who meticulously craft their online
> conversations, n i no BFFs who dun b like that.
>
> How someone speaks on the internet seems to me proportional almost entirely
> to their intelligence*, not to their wisdom. Sure, there is an age where
> one, no matter how bright, will speak like trash, but this normally
> coincides with an inability to speak well, too. Most older teenagers have as
> good a grasp on language as they will ever learn, so it hardly applies to
> them.

The aggressive defensiveness had me thinking intelligent *younger*
teenager, actually, possibly a tween.  Mostly though the idea was
based on what I had seen of his website, which reminded me of some of
the ambitious efforts of myself and my peers when I was around that
age myself.  In any case, he's claimed to be older, so with no real
evidence to the contrary, I will take his word for it.

> * Note that I speak not of IQ or problem-solving ability, but more of a
> general social intelligence that can be seen in almost any poster on this
> list.

My social intelligence is pretty darn low in real life, but I like to
think that I comport myself reasonably well on the net.


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Sun Oct 28 14:21:45 2012
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 18:21:45 +0000
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <508D3F3D.9020303@it.uu.se>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se> <5086C156.40707@tim.thechases.com>
	<5086D13F.80006@it.uu.se> <5086DA4D.4060204@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2683.1351018926.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr4ooah0t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <50879555.7000200@it.uu.se>
	<508D1469.5060109@davea.name> <508D3F3D.9020303@it.uu.se>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxRFvGu=zph223xqpWejB6a185ZpW0fw1amHipHvO-Bhrg@mail.gmail.com>

On 28 October 2012 14:20, Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se> wrote:
> On 28-Oct-2012 12:18, Dave Angel wrote:
>>
>> On 10/24/2012 03:14 AM, Virgil Stokes wrote:
>>>
>>> On 24-Oct-2012 01:46, Paul Rubin wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I do wish to inverse the order,  but the "forward in time" file
>>>>> will be in binary.
>>>>
>>>> I really think it will be simplest to just write the file in forward
>>>> order, then use mmap to read it one record at a time.  It might be
>>>> possible to squeeze out a little more performance with reordering tricks
>>>> but that's the first thing to try.
>>>
>>> Thanks Paul,
>>> I am working on this approach now...
>>
>> If you're using mmap to map the whole file, you'll need 64bit Windows to
>> start with.  I'd be interested to know if Windows will allow you to mmap
>> 100gb at one stroke.  Have you tried it, or are you starting by figuring
>> how to access the data from the mmap?
>
> Thanks very much for pursuing my query, Dave.
>
> I have not tried it yet --- temporarily side-tracked; but, I will post my
> findings on this issue.

If you are going to use mmap then look at the numpy.memmap function.
This wraps pythons mmap so that you can access the contents of the
mapped binary file as if it was a numpy array. This means that you
don't need to handle the bytes -> float conversions yourself.

>>> import numpy
>>> a = numpy.array([4,5,6], numpy.float64)
>>> a
array([ 4.,  5.,  6.])
>>> with open('tmp.bin', 'wb') as f:  # write forwards
...   a.tofile(f)
...   a.tofile(f)
...
>>> a2 = numpy.memmap('tmp.bin', numpy.float64)
>>> a2
memmap([ 4.,  5.,  6.,  4.,  5.,  6.])
>>> a2[3]
4.0
>>> a2[5:2:-1] # read backwards
memmap([ 6.,  5.,  4.])


Oscar


From GangGreene at example.com  Sun Oct 28 14:24:08 2012
From: GangGreene at example.com (GangGreene)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 14:24:08 -0400
Subject: Where are documentation for Gnome
References: <CAE7MaQaVdFKn5FibrNi=gZNZLcby+F271bo8wa5XK4qEOpDZpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2974.1351441610.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8r90m9-ce2.ln1@crazy-horse.bildanet.com>

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:29:07 +0000, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> On 13/10/2012 18:49, Santosh Kumar wrote:
>>
>>
> Try your local garden centre.

I inquired at the local garden centre, Just got strange looks....

Are you sure that is the correct place? ;)


From gelonida at gmail.com  Sun Oct 28 16:09:18 2012
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 21:09:18 +0100
Subject: SSH Connection with Python
In-Reply-To: <20121028003523.GA26034@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <k6gje2$cpn$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<20121028003523.GA26034@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <k6k3dd$e87$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/28/2012 02:35 AM, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> On 27Oct2012 14:18, Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:
> | On 10/27/2012 02:21 AM, Roy Smith wrote:
> | > In article <mailman.2915.1351294793.27098.python-list at python.org>,
> | >   Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:
> | >
> | >> Another problem is, that paramiko depends on pycrypto 2.1+
> | >> which doesn't exist as binary release for python 2.7
> | >
> | > I'm running paramiko-1.7.6 with python 2.7.3 on my Ubunto Precise box.
> | > I'm reasonably sure all I did was "pip install paramiko".
> |
> | Apologies.  I failed to mention, that I was talking about Windows not Linux.
> |
> | I use Python for applications, that should work under Linux and under
> | Windows.
> |
> | > But, keep in mind that fabric depends on paramiko.  If you can't get
> | > paramiko installed, you probably can't get fabric either.
> | >
> | Thanks, that's good to know, so I don't have to bother looking at farbic
> | (at least not as solution on windows python 2.7 without having to try to
> | recompile pycrypto myself)
>
> Many years ago we ran an ssh executable on Windows; it was a tiny
> standalone kit consisting, IIRC, of the Cygwin libc and ssh. Or you
> could just install Cygwin...
>
> That would let you use Python's subprocess module to invoke ssh and
> dispatch your command.
>
On all my work PCs cygwin is installed.

However when packaging something with py2exe I'd really prefer to not 
have to install additional .exe / .dll files just for the ssh client.
This is why I like the idea of Paramiko. which requires the crypto .dll, 
but that's it.

The only thing I'm concerned about paramiko is, that I don't see any 
activity on the paramiko site and that one library it depends on is not 
available is windows binary package for newer versions of python.

For the time being I stick with paramiko as I'm still on py2.6, but I 
wanted to have some feedback, whether this path can easily be followed 
in the mid term future or whther I ahd to fall back to a minimalist set
of ssh executables / dlls and a subprocess wrapper.





From gelonida at gmail.com  Sun Oct 28 16:15:52 2012
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 21:15:52 +0100
Subject: SSH Connection with Python
In-Reply-To: <CANy1k1gV4s8kg0qneZ-gvybiR_y4NwhH_2gR8cdKTmPi7DckWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5089119A.2040902@globe.de>
	<CANy1k1gV4s8kg0qneZ-gvybiR_y4NwhH_2gR8cdKTmPi7DckWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k6k3pm$g2g$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/26/2012 05:22 AM, Jason Friedman wrote:
>> how can i create a SSH-Connection with python? I have to send some commands
>> to the remote host and parse their answers.
>
> Consider also the sh module:
> http://amoffat.github.com/sh/tutorials/2-interacting_with_processes.html.
>


Just a minor comment:  The sh module looks intersting, but it's not 
supported for Windows platforms.

Please note: I'm not the original poster, so perhaps this is no issue 
for him.



From gheskett at wdtv.com  Sun Oct 28 16:45:47 2012
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:45:47 -0400
Subject: Where are documentation for Gnome
In-Reply-To: <8r90m9-ce2.ln1@crazy-horse.bildanet.com>
References: <CAE7MaQaVdFKn5FibrNi=gZNZLcby+F271bo8wa5XK4qEOpDZpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2974.1351441610.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8r90m9-ce2.ln1@crazy-horse.bildanet.com>
Message-ID: <201210281645.47346.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Sunday 28 October 2012 16:45:12 GangGreene did opine:

> On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:29:07 +0000, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> > On 13/10/2012 18:49, Santosh Kumar wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Try your local garden centre.
> 
> I inquired at the local garden centre, Just got strange looks....
> 
> Are you sure that is the correct place? ;)

I think I'll stick around and see where this goes...


Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene> is up!
Be careful what you set your heart on -- for it will surely be yours.
		-- James Baldwin, "Nobody Knows My Name"


From vs at it.uu.se  Sun Oct 28 18:36:04 2012
From: vs at it.uu.se (Virgil Stokes)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 23:36:04 +0100
Subject: Fast forward-backward (write-read)
In-Reply-To: <CAHVvXxRFvGu=zph223xqpWejB6a185ZpW0fw1amHipHvO-Bhrg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5086AA35.4000509@it.uu.se> <5086C156.40707@tim.thechases.com>
	<5086D13F.80006@it.uu.se> <5086DA4D.4060204@tim.thechases.com>
	<mailman.2683.1351018926.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7xr4ooah0t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<50879555.7000200@it.uu.se> <508D1469.5060109@davea.name>
	<508D3F3D.9020303@it.uu.se>
	<CAHVvXxRFvGu=zph223xqpWejB6a185ZpW0fw1amHipHvO-Bhrg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508DB354.9020504@it.uu.se>

On 2012-10-28 19:21, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
> On 28 October 2012 14:20, Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se> wrote:
>> On 28-Oct-2012 12:18, Dave Angel wrote:
>>> On 10/24/2012 03:14 AM, Virgil Stokes wrote:
>>>> On 24-Oct-2012 01:46, Paul Rubin wrote:
>>>>> Virgil Stokes <vs at it.uu.se> writes:
>>>>>> Yes, I do wish to inverse the order,  but the "forward in time" file
>>>>>> will be in binary.
>>>>> I really think it will be simplest to just write the file in forward
>>>>> order, then use mmap to read it one record at a time.  It might be
>>>>> possible to squeeze out a little more performance with reordering tricks
>>>>> but that's the first thing to try.
>>>> Thanks Paul,
>>>> I am working on this approach now...
>>> If you're using mmap to map the whole file, you'll need 64bit Windows to
>>> start with.  I'd be interested to know if Windows will allow you to mmap
>>> 100gb at one stroke.  Have you tried it, or are you starting by figuring
>>> how to access the data from the mmap?
>> Thanks very much for pursuing my query, Dave.
>>
>> I have not tried it yet --- temporarily side-tracked; but, I will post my
>> findings on this issue.
> If you are going to use mmap then look at the numpy.memmap function.
> This wraps pythons mmap so that you can access the contents of the
> mapped binary file as if it was a numpy array. This means that you
> don't need to handle the bytes -> float conversions yourself.
>
>>>> import numpy
>>>> a = numpy.array([4,5,6], numpy.float64)
>>>> a
> array([ 4.,  5.,  6.])
>>>> with open('tmp.bin', 'wb') as f:  # write forwards
> ...   a.tofile(f)
> ...   a.tofile(f)
> ...
>>>> a2 = numpy.memmap('tmp.bin', numpy.float64)
>>>> a2
> memmap([ 4.,  5.,  6.,  4.,  5.,  6.])
>>>> a2[3]
> 4.0
>>>> a2[5:2:-1] # read backwards
> memmap([ 6.,  5.,  4.])
>
>
> Oscar
Thanks Oscar!


From leegold at operamail.com  Sun Oct 28 19:30:23 2012
From: leegold at operamail.com (goldtech)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:30:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help understanding an Object Oriented Program example
Message-ID: <61e6d41b-fb4b-4cd4-aaea-ce57188c3f6a@s9g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Trying to learn Python OOP. An example from a book, may not be
formated after sending post but:

class Contact:
    all_contacts = []
    def __init__(self, name, email):
        self.name = name
        self.email = email
        Contact.all_contacts.append(self)

OK, no I do this:

>>> c = Contact('aaa','bbb')
>>> c = Contact('ccc','ddd')
>>> c = Contact('eee','fff')
>>> for i in Contact.all_contacts:
	print i.name + '  ' + i.email


aaa  bbb
ccc  ddd
eee  fff
>>>
>>> c.name
'eee'

So wouldn't be good to add a check that the var (in this case c) does
not point to any object before creating an object to keep the list
correct?

Also all_contacts is a class variable. I think the author is hinting
that this would be a good idea for a contact list, But I don't fully
see the usage of it. How would each object use a class variable like
this? What would be the dot notation?

I realize this is a code fragment and is no way implementable code.
Any help appreciated. BTW, it's from "Python3 Object Oriented
Programming..." by D. Philips - very clearly written and enjoying
it...Thanks





From mlhotz at gmail.com  Sun Oct 28 19:51:31 2012
From: mlhotz at gmail.com (Mark L. Hotz)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:51:31 -0700
Subject: Simple Python question for some
Message-ID: <00c501cdb567$28ead530$7ac07f90$@gmail.com>

I have what I think should be a relatively simple question for someone who
is knowledgeable about Python.

 

At the IDLE prompt, when I enter "b" > 99, it responds True. In fact, it
doesn't matter which number is entered here, "b" is always greater (e.g. "b"
> 1 == True; "b" > 100000 == True, or "b" < 99 = False).

 

Why is this true?  If I use ord("b") it returns 98, so Python cannot be
using the ASCII or Unicode value when interpreting "b" > 99.  When I sort a
mixed list using Python, and the list contains "b" among a series of numeric
values, "b" is always sorted as last, indicating that it has a value greater
than the highest number?

 

How do I prove that "b" is greater than any number?  Or is it something very
simple, and Python simply orders characters after numbers, or perhaps Python
only interprets numbers like 99 as a 9 (i.e. ord("9") == 57)?

 

Thank you.

 

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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Oct 28 20:02:12 2012
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 17:02:12 -0700
Subject: Help understanding an Object Oriented Program example
In-Reply-To: <61e6d41b-fb4b-4cd4-aaea-ce57188c3f6a@s9g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
References: <61e6d41b-fb4b-4cd4-aaea-ce57188c3f6a@s9g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRQiPfyJqj407=i=VjJSxYwxpwaxrwGrhCF1gaUobVZ4HA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 4:30 PM, goldtech <leegold at operamail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Trying to learn Python OOP. An example from a book, may not be
> formated after sending post but:
>
> class Contact:
>     all_contacts = []
>     def __init__(self, name, email):
>         self.name = name
>         self.email = email
>         Contact.all_contacts.append(self)
>
> OK, no I do this:
>
>>>> c = Contact('aaa','bbb')
>>>> c = Contact('ccc','ddd')
>>>> c = Contact('eee','fff')
>>>> for i in Contact.all_contacts:
>         print i.name + '  ' + i.email
>
>
> aaa  bbb
> ccc  ddd
> eee  fff
>>>>
>>>> c.name
> 'eee'
>
> So wouldn't be good to add a check that the var (in this case c) does
> not point to any object before creating an object to keep the list
> correct?

I'm unclear on how the list would become "incorrect" or exactly what
sort of check you're thinking of. Please explain what you mean in
greater detail.
Keep in mind that checking for the "definedness" of variables in
Python is generally considered bad and is often infeasible.

> Also all_contacts is a class variable. I think the author is hinting
> that this would be a good idea for a contact list, But I don't fully
> see the usage of it.

I would think he just wants to demonstrate the use of class variables
as opposed to instance variables. It's probably not a good idea for a
serious contact list implementation. But the general technique to
allow a class to keep track of all its instances can sometimes be
useful (e.g. for caching).

> How would each object use a class variable like
> this? What would be the dot notation?

All of the following would work:
Contact.all_contacts  # as in the example
self.__class__.all_contacts
self.all_contacts  # probably not advisable

Which one you ought to use becomes complicated when you consider the
general case where there may be sub/superclasses, where you may want
to rebind the variable, and where there may be an instance variable of
the same name.
Class variables are generally used quite infrequently compared to
regular instance variables.

Cheers,
Chris


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Oct 28 20:02:50 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 11:02:50 +1100
Subject: Help understanding an Object Oriented Program example
In-Reply-To: <61e6d41b-fb4b-4cd4-aaea-ce57188c3f6a@s9g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
References: <61e6d41b-fb4b-4cd4-aaea-ce57188c3f6a@s9g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmon9bnZQ5Z=q0nA1w8PUzhznYvNF+paJ873ubzNrRLsEQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:30 AM, goldtech <leegold at operamail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Trying to learn Python OOP. An example from a book, may not be
> formated after sending post but:
>
> class Contact:
>     all_contacts = []
>     def __init__(self, name, email):
>         self.name = name
>         self.email = email
>         Contact.all_contacts.append(self)
>
> OK, no I do this:
>
>>>> c = Contact('aaa','bbb')
>>>> c = Contact('ccc','ddd')
>>>> c = Contact('eee','fff')
>>>> for i in Contact.all_contacts:
>         print i.name + '  ' + i.email
>
>
> aaa  bbb
> ccc  ddd
> eee  fff
>>>>
>>>> c.name
> 'eee'

Hi! Side point before we begin: You appear to be using Python
2.something (since print is a statement, not a function), but your
book (as you mention further down) refers to Python3. I recommend you
get an interpreter that corresponds to your book, or you'll end up
tripping over a triviality :) If the book doesn't specify a particular
version, get 3.3 - it's the latest released Python, and a significant
improvement over its predecessors.

> So wouldn't be good to add a check that the var (in this case c) does
> not point to any object before creating an object to keep the list
> correct?

Depends what you mean by "correct" there. If you're expecting the list
to contain only those objects that are referenced somewhere else,
you'll have to play around with weak references and such; normally,
what's expected of code like this is that it will retain all objects
created, even if there are no other references. So in that sense, the
list's already correct.

> Also all_contacts is a class variable. I think the author is hinting
> that this would be a good idea for a contact list, But I don't fully
> see the usage of it. How would each object use a class variable like
> this? What would be the dot notation?

Exactly the way you currently are, as Contact.all_contacts - but
there's also some magic that lets you reference it from any instance:

>>> Contact("foo","foo at foo")
<__main__.Contact instance at 0x011B5030>
>>> Contact("a","a at a")
<__main__.Contact instance at 0x011BC828>
>>> c=Contact("quux","quux at example.com")
>>> c.all_contacts
[<__main__.Contact instance at 0x011B5030>, <__main__.Contact instance
at 0x011BC828>, <__main__.Contact instance at 0x011BC5D0>]

Note how all three instances are listed in one instance's all_contacts
member. (Note also that I didn't have to assign the other two to
anything - the objects still get retained in all_contacts.) A common
way to do this sort of thing is to simply use self:

class Contact:
    all_contacts = []
    def __init__(self, name, email):
        self.name = name
        self.email = email
        self.all_contacts.append(self)

As long as you don't rebind that name (eg "self.all_contacts = []"),
this will work just fine.

> I realize this is a code fragment and is no way implementable code.

Actually, it's quite workable. It's enough to paste into the
interactive interpreter and play with. That's one of Python's best
features - it's really easy to play with. And if you put parentheses
around your print argument, it'll be fully Python 3 compatible (though
when you run it in Python 2, you get an old-style class - but since
the book's assuming Py3, new-style is what you want anyway).

>>> for i in Contact.all_contacts:
        print(i.name + '  ' + i.email)

Hope that helps!

Chris Angelico


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Oct 28 20:09:07 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 00:09:07 +0000
Subject: Simple Python question for some
In-Reply-To: <00c501cdb567$28ead530$7ac07f90$@gmail.com>
References: <00c501cdb567$28ead530$7ac07f90$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k6kh8u$lvo$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 28/10/2012 23:51, Mark L. Hotz wrote:
> I have what I think should be a relatively simple question for someone who
> is knowledgeable about Python.

Sorry you've come to the wrong place :)

>
> At the IDLE prompt, when I enter "b" > 99, it responds True. In fact, it
> doesn't matter which number is entered here, "b" is always greater (e.g. "b"
>> 1 == True; "b" > 100000 == True, or "b" < 99 = False).
>
> Why is this true?  If I use ord("b") it returns 98, so Python cannot be
> using the ASCII or Unicode value when interpreting "b" > 99.  When I sort a
> mixed list using Python, and the list contains "b" among a series of numeric
> values, "b" is always sorted as last, indicating that it has a value greater
> than the highest number?
>
> How do I prove that "b" is greater than any number?  Or is it something very
> simple, and Python simply orders characters after numbers, or perhaps Python
> only interprets numbers like 99 as a 9 (i.e. ord("9") == 57)?
>
> Thank you.
>

The behaviour of Python between version 2 and 3 has been changed hence.

Python 2.7.3 (default, Apr 10 2012, 23:31:26) [MSC v.1500 32 bit 
(Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> 'b' > 99
True

Python 3.3.0 (v3.3.0:bd8afb90ebf2, Sep 29 2012, 10:55:48) [MSC v.1600 32 
bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> 'b' > 99
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: unorderable types: str() > int()

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Oct 28 20:18:46 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 11:18:46 +1100
Subject: Simple Python question for some
In-Reply-To: <00c501cdb567$28ead530$7ac07f90$@gmail.com>
References: <00c501cdb567$28ead530$7ac07f90$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq_Svcpzaq-aqouqrQJ67Xc7=YRZwqEBzVRCOrRXTVXeQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Mark L. Hotz <mlhotz at gmail.com> wrote:
> At the IDLE prompt, when I enter ?b? > 99, it responds True. In fact, it
> doesn?t matter which number is entered here, ?b? is always greater (e.g. ?b?
>> 1 == True; ?b? > 100000 == True, or ?b? < 99 = False).

To Python, different object types are completely different.
Incidentally, with issues like this, it's worth mentioning which
version of Python you're using - though in this case, it's clear
you're using Python 2. As of version 3, behaviour is different:

Python 3.2 (r32:88445, Feb 20 2011, 21:29:02) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.
>>> "b" > 99
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#1>", line 1, in <module>
    "b" > 99
TypeError: unorderable types: str() > int()


As of Python 2, there's a slightly esoteric rule as described here:
http://docs.python.org/2/library/stdtypes.html#comparisons
"CPython implementation detail: Objects of different types except
numbers are ordered by their type names; objects of the same types
that don?t support proper comparison are ordered by their address."

So since "str" is greater than "int", "b" is greater than 99.

Fortunately, Python does NOT have arcane rules for comparing numbers
as though they were strings. Notably:

>>> "100" == 100
False

Which means that strings will ALWAYS be compared as strings, and
numbers will ALWAYS be compared as numbers, and ne'er the twain shall
conflict. I can trust Python to compare MD5 hashes reliably:

>>> "912128034267498495410681495015e0" != "00912128034267498495410681495015"
True

Of course, I'm not pointing fingers at any other languages here, but
this is a known security hole in one rather widely-used one.

ChrisA


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Oct 28 20:18:48 2012
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 17:18:48 -0700
Subject: Simple Python question for some
In-Reply-To: <00c501cdb567$28ead530$7ac07f90$@gmail.com>
References: <00c501cdb567$28ead530$7ac07f90$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRTAMWgUpMbb=_9FT-N_pHagBcxw7kysF3YhXCw82YpOgQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Mark L. Hotz <mlhotz at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have what I think should be a relatively simple question for someone who
> is knowledgeable about Python.
>
> At the IDLE prompt, when I enter ?b? > 99, it responds True. In fact, it
> doesn?t matter which number is entered here, ?b? is always greater (e.g. ?b?
>> 1 == True; ?b? > 100000 == True, or ?b? < 99 = False).
>
> Why is this true?

Per http://docs.python.org/2/library/stdtypes.html#comparisons :
"Objects of different types, except different numeric types and
different string types, [?] are ordered consistently but arbitrarily
(so that sorting a heterogeneous array yields a consistent result)."
Note that the "except" part just means that, e.g. floats and ints can
be compared with each other, and Unicode and byte strings can be
compared with each other. It does NOT mean that numbers and strings
can be meaningfully compared with each other.

This is fixed in Python 3, where such nonsensical comparisons will
instead raise TypeError.

>  If I use ord(?b?) it returns 98, so Python cannot be
> using the ASCII or Unicode value when interpreting ?b? > 99.

It has nothing to do with implicit casting between strings and numbers
(which, as a general rule, Python does not do).

>From the same linked section as before:
"CPython implementation detail: Objects of [incompatible types] are
ordered by their type names"

So ints come before strs because "int" comes before "str" lexicographically.

Cheers,
Chris


From walterhurry at lavabit.com  Sun Oct 28 20:25:47 2012
From: walterhurry at lavabit.com (Walter Hurry)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 00:25:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Where are documentation for Gnome
References: <CAE7MaQaVdFKn5FibrNi=gZNZLcby+F271bo8wa5XK4qEOpDZpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2974.1351441610.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k6kieb$lh8$1@news.albasani.net>

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:29:07 +0000, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> On 13/10/2012 18:49, Santosh Kumar wrote:
>>
>>
> Try your local garden centre.

Or:

The Burrow,
Ottery St. Catchpole,
Devon,
England



From andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com  Sun Oct 28 22:31:57 2012
From: andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com (Andrew Robinson)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 19:31:57 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
Message-ID: <508DEA9D.8040702@r3dsolutions.com>

Ok, hopefully this is better.  I love my own e-mail editor...

I can see that the slice() function can pass in arbitrary arguments.
I'm not sure for lists, which is what the range is applied to, why an 
argument like "a" would be part of a slice.
I *really* don't see what the advantage of a slice class is over a mere 
list in the order of start, stop, step eg: [ 1,4,9 ]

In a dictionary, where "a" could be a key -- I wasn't aware that there 
was a defined order that the idea of slice could apply to.

When I look at the documentation,
http://www.python.org/doc//current/c-api/slice

The only thing that slice has which is special, is that the the length 
of the sequence can be given -- and the start and stop index are either 
trimmed or an error (exception???) is thrown.

Where is the information on the more general case of slice()? :-\

I am thinking, can one use the 'super' type of access, to override -- 
within the list object itself -- the __getitem__ method, and after 
pre-processing -- call the shadowed method with the modified 
parameters?  That would allow me to use the normal a[-4:6] notation, 
without having to write a wrapper class that must be explicitly called.

I'm thinking something like,

PyListObject.__getitem__= lambda self, slice: ....

--Andrew.





From chenyong20000 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 28 23:03:35 2012
From: chenyong20000 at gmail.com (skyworld)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 20:03:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: question on subprogram parameter
Message-ID: <2a501243-836f-417f-b67a-365c0c777ddb@i2g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I'm studying python now and I saw a piece of code like this:

def storeDbase(db, dbfilename=dbfilename):
     .....
     dbfile=open(dbfilename,'w')
     for key in db:
          print(key, file=dbfile)


can anybody help me to understand what does this "file=dbfile" mean
and what is its function? thanks.


From andrewr3mail at gmail.com  Sun Oct 28 23:12:10 2012
From: andrewr3mail at gmail.com (andrewr3mail at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 20:12:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
Message-ID: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>

The slice operator does not give any way (I can find!) to take slices from negative to positive indexes, although the range is not empty, nor the expected indexes out of range that I am supplying.

Many programs that I write would require introducing variables and logical statements to correct the problem which is very lengthy and error prone unless there is a simple work around.

I *hate* replicating code every time I need to do this!

I also don't understand why slice() is not equivalent to an iterator, but can replace an integer in __getitem__() whereas xrange() can't.


Here's an example for Linux shell, otherwise remove /bin/env...
{{{#!/bin/env python
a=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]
print a[-4:3]  # I am interested in getting [7,8,9,10,1,2] but I get [].
}}}


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Oct 28 23:35:27 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 03:35:27 +0000
Subject: question on subprogram parameter
In-Reply-To: <2a501243-836f-417f-b67a-365c0c777ddb@i2g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
References: <2a501243-836f-417f-b67a-365c0c777ddb@i2g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <508DF97F.20800@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-29 03:03, skyworld wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm studying python now and I saw a piece of code like this:
>
> def storeDbase(db, dbfilename=dbfilename):
>       .....
>       dbfile=open(dbfilename,'w')
>       for key in db:
>            print(key, file=dbfile)
>
>
> can anybody help me to understand what does this "file=dbfile" mean
> and what is its function? thanks.
>
It's a keyword parameter.

Normally 'print' sends its output to the standard output (usually it's
the screen).

Adding 'file=dbfile' tells it to send its output to the file referred
to by 'dbfile' instead.

It's all in the documentation!


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sun Oct 28 23:42:50 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 21:42:50 -0600
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnPP2asaF_JncNuNPRnwzX96YR52zgcx4YnfWy1T92NJA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 9:12 PM,  <andrewr3mail at gmail.com> wrote:
> The slice operator does not give any way (I can find!) to take slices from negative to positive indexes, although the range is not empty, nor the expected indexes out of range that I am supplying.
>
> Many programs that I write would require introducing variables and logical statements to correct the problem which is very lengthy and error prone unless there is a simple work around.
>
> I *hate* replicating code every time I need to do this!
>
> I also don't understand why slice() is not equivalent to an iterator, but can replace an integer in __getitem__() whereas xrange() can't.
>
>
> Here's an example for Linux shell, otherwise remove /bin/env...
> {{{#!/bin/env python
> a=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]
> print a[-4:3]  # I am interested in getting [7,8,9,10,1,2] but I get [].
> }}}


For a sequence of length 10, "a[-4:3]" is equivalent to "a[6:3]",
which is an empty slice since index 6 is after index 3.

If you want it to wrap around, then take two slices and concatenate
them with "a[-4:] + a[:3]".


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Oct 28 23:45:58 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 03:45:58 +0000
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <508DFBF6.9020807@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-29 03:12, andrewr3mail at gmail.com wrote:
> The slice operator does not give any way (I can find!) to take slices from negative to positive indexes, although the range is not empty, nor the expected indexes out of range that I am supplying.
>
> Many programs that I write would require introducing variables and logical statements to correct the problem which is very lengthy and error prone unless there is a simple work around.
>
> I *hate* replicating code every time I need to do this!
>
> I also don't understand why slice() is not equivalent to an iterator, but can replace an integer in __getitem__() whereas xrange() can't.
>
>
> Here's an example for Linux shell, otherwise remove /bin/env...
> {{{#!/bin/env python
> a=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]
> print a[-4:3]  # I am interested in getting [7,8,9,10,1,2] but I get [].
> }}}
>
If the stride is positive (if omitted it defaults to 1), the slice is
from the start index to one before the end index, and a negative index
counts from the end.

a[-4:3] is equivalent to a[len(a)-4:3], which is an empty list if
len(a)-4 >= 3.

It doesn't wrap around.



From andrewr3mail at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 00:00:48 2012
From: andrewr3mail at gmail.com (andrewr3mail at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 21:00:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, October 28, 2012 8:43:30 PM UTC-7, Ian wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 9:12 PM, andrew wrote:
> 
> > The slice operator does not give any way (I can find!) to take slices from negative to positive indexes, although the range is not empty, nor the expected indexes out of range that I am supplying.
> 
> >
> 
> > Many programs that I write would require introducing variables and logical statements to correct the problem which is very lengthy and error prone unless there is a simple work around.
> 
> >
> 
> > I *hate* replicating code every time I need to do this!
> 
> >
> 
> > I also don't understand why slice() is not equivalent to an iterator, but can replace an integer in __getitem__() whereas xrange() can't.
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > Here's an example for Linux shell, otherwise remove /bin/env...
> 
> > {{{#!/bin/env python
> 
> > a=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]
> 
> > print a[-4:3]  # I am interested in getting [7,8,9,10,1,2] but I get [].
> 
> > }}}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For a sequence of length 10, "a[-4:3]" is equivalent to "a[6:3]",
> 
> which is an empty slice since index 6 is after index 3.
> 
> 
> 
> If you want it to wrap around, then take two slices and concatenate
> 
> them with "a[-4:] + a[:3]".

Hi Ian,
Well, no it really isn't equivalent.
Consider a programmer who writes:
xrange(-4,3) *wants* [-4,-3,-2,-1,0,1,2]

That is the "idea" of a range; for what reason would anyone *EVER* want -4 to +3 to be 6:3???

I do agree that the data held in -4 is equivalent to the data in 6, but the index is not the same.

So: Why does python choose to convert them to positive indexes, and have slice operate differently than xrange -- for the slice() object can't possibly know the size of the array when it is passed in to __getitem__;  They are totally separate classes.

I realize I can concat. two slice ranges, BUT, the ranges do not always span from negative to positive.

eg: a line in my program reads:
a[x-5:x]

if x is 7, then this is a positive index to a positive index.
So, there is no logic to using two slices concatd !

I use this arbitrary range code *often* so I need a general purpose solution.
I looked up slice() but the help is of no use, I don't even know how I might overload it to embed some logic to concatenate ranges of data; nor even if it is possible.



From andrewr3mail at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 00:00:48 2012
From: andrewr3mail at gmail.com (andrewr3mail at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 21:00:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, October 28, 2012 8:43:30 PM UTC-7, Ian wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 9:12 PM, andrew wrote:
> 
> > The slice operator does not give any way (I can find!) to take slices from negative to positive indexes, although the range is not empty, nor the expected indexes out of range that I am supplying.
> 
> >
> 
> > Many programs that I write would require introducing variables and logical statements to correct the problem which is very lengthy and error prone unless there is a simple work around.
> 
> >
> 
> > I *hate* replicating code every time I need to do this!
> 
> >
> 
> > I also don't understand why slice() is not equivalent to an iterator, but can replace an integer in __getitem__() whereas xrange() can't.
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > Here's an example for Linux shell, otherwise remove /bin/env...
> 
> > {{{#!/bin/env python
> 
> > a=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]
> 
> > print a[-4:3]  # I am interested in getting [7,8,9,10,1,2] but I get [].
> 
> > }}}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For a sequence of length 10, "a[-4:3]" is equivalent to "a[6:3]",
> 
> which is an empty slice since index 6 is after index 3.
> 
> 
> 
> If you want it to wrap around, then take two slices and concatenate
> 
> them with "a[-4:] + a[:3]".

Hi Ian,
Well, no it really isn't equivalent.
Consider a programmer who writes:
xrange(-4,3) *wants* [-4,-3,-2,-1,0,1,2]

That is the "idea" of a range; for what reason would anyone *EVER* want -4 to +3 to be 6:3???

I do agree that the data held in -4 is equivalent to the data in 6, but the index is not the same.

So: Why does python choose to convert them to positive indexes, and have slice operate differently than xrange -- for the slice() object can't possibly know the size of the array when it is passed in to __getitem__;  They are totally separate classes.

I realize I can concat. two slice ranges, BUT, the ranges do not always span from negative to positive.

eg: a line in my program reads:
a[x-5:x]

if x is 7, then this is a positive index to a positive index.
So, there is no logic to using two slices concatd !

I use this arbitrary range code *often* so I need a general purpose solution.
I looked up slice() but the help is of no use, I don't even know how I might overload it to embed some logic to concatenate ranges of data; nor even if it is possible.



From andrewr3mail at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 00:09:56 2012
From: andrewr3mail at gmail.com (Andrew)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 21:09:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bb922c4b-08b5-4e93-9452-5306b2d953a9@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, October 28, 2012 8:43:30 PM UTC-7, Ian wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 9:12 PM,  <Andrew> wrote:
> 
> > The slice operator does not give any way (I can find!) to take slices from negative to positive indexes, although the range is not empty, nor the expected indexes out of range that I am supplying.
> 
> >
> 
> > Many programs that I write would require introducing variables and logical statements to correct the problem which is very lengthy and error prone unless there is a simple work around.
> 
> >
> 
> > I *hate* replicating code every time I need to do this!
> 
> >
> 
> > I also don't understand why slice() is not equivalent to an iterator, but can replace an integer in __getitem__() whereas xrange() can't.
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > Here's an example for Linux shell, otherwise remove /bin/env...
> 
> > {{{#!/bin/env python
> 
> > a=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]
> 
> > print a[-4:3]  # I am interested in getting [7,8,9,10,1,2] but I get [].
> 
> > }}}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For a sequence of length 10, "a[-4:3]" is equivalent to "a[6:3]",
> 
> which is an empty slice since index 6 is after index 3.
> 
> 
> 
> If you want it to wrap around, then take two slices and concatenate
> 
> them with "a[-4:] + a[:3]".

Hi Ian,
Well, no it really isn't equivalent; although Python implements it as equivalent.

Consider a programmer who writes:
xrange(-4,3) 

They clearly *want* [-4,-3,-2,-1,0,1,2]

That is the "idea" of a range; So, for what reason would anyone want -4 to +3 to be 6:3???  Can you show me some code where this is desirable??

I do agree that the data held in -4 is equivalent to the data in 6, but the index is not the same.

So: Why does python choose to convert them to positive indexes, and have slice operate differently than xrange -- for the slice() object can't possibly know the size of the array when it is passed in to __getitem__;  They are totally separate classes.

I realize I can concat. two slice ranges, BUT, the ranges do not always span from negative to positive.

eg: a line in my program reads:
a[x-5:x]

if x is 7, then this is a positive index to a positive index.
So, there is no logic to using two slices concatd !

I use this arbitrary range code *often* so I need a general purpose solution.
I looked up slice() but the help is of no use, I don't even know how I might overload it to embed some logic to concatenate ranges of data; nor even if it is possible. 


From andrewr3mail at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 00:09:56 2012
From: andrewr3mail at gmail.com (Andrew)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 21:09:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bb922c4b-08b5-4e93-9452-5306b2d953a9@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, October 28, 2012 8:43:30 PM UTC-7, Ian wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 9:12 PM,  <Andrew> wrote:
> 
> > The slice operator does not give any way (I can find!) to take slices from negative to positive indexes, although the range is not empty, nor the expected indexes out of range that I am supplying.
> 
> >
> 
> > Many programs that I write would require introducing variables and logical statements to correct the problem which is very lengthy and error prone unless there is a simple work around.
> 
> >
> 
> > I *hate* replicating code every time I need to do this!
> 
> >
> 
> > I also don't understand why slice() is not equivalent to an iterator, but can replace an integer in __getitem__() whereas xrange() can't.
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > Here's an example for Linux shell, otherwise remove /bin/env...
> 
> > {{{#!/bin/env python
> 
> > a=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]
> 
> > print a[-4:3]  # I am interested in getting [7,8,9,10,1,2] but I get [].
> 
> > }}}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For a sequence of length 10, "a[-4:3]" is equivalent to "a[6:3]",
> 
> which is an empty slice since index 6 is after index 3.
> 
> 
> 
> If you want it to wrap around, then take two slices and concatenate
> 
> them with "a[-4:] + a[:3]".

Hi Ian,
Well, no it really isn't equivalent; although Python implements it as equivalent.

Consider a programmer who writes:
xrange(-4,3) 

They clearly *want* [-4,-3,-2,-1,0,1,2]

That is the "idea" of a range; So, for what reason would anyone want -4 to +3 to be 6:3???  Can you show me some code where this is desirable??

I do agree that the data held in -4 is equivalent to the data in 6, but the index is not the same.

So: Why does python choose to convert them to positive indexes, and have slice operate differently than xrange -- for the slice() object can't possibly know the size of the array when it is passed in to __getitem__;  They are totally separate classes.

I realize I can concat. two slice ranges, BUT, the ranges do not always span from negative to positive.

eg: a line in my program reads:
a[x-5:x]

if x is 7, then this is a positive index to a positive index.
So, there is no logic to using two slices concatd !

I use this arbitrary range code *often* so I need a general purpose solution.
I looked up slice() but the help is of no use, I don't even know how I might overload it to embed some logic to concatenate ranges of data; nor even if it is possible. 


From gmspro at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 29 00:22:37 2012
From: gmspro at yahoo.com (gmspro)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 21:22:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is python C source code more complex than ruby C source code?
Message-ID: <1351484557.99993.YahooMailClassic@web125206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hello,

Is python C source code more complex than ruby C source code?

Thanks

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From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 00:25:28 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 22:25:28 -0600
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmt3_4vqHY3P7EoVZsxQaWJqzegK1NRur0-4GPhV1k3kg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 10:00 PM,  <andrewr3mail at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ian,
> Well, no it really isn't equivalent.
> Consider a programmer who writes:
> xrange(-4,3) *wants* [-4,-3,-2,-1,0,1,2]
>
> That is the "idea" of a range; for what reason would anyone *EVER* want -4 to +3 to be 6:3???

That is what ranges do, but your question was about slices, not ranges.

> So: Why does python choose to convert them to positive indexes, and have slice operate differently than xrange -- for the slice() object can't possibly know the size of the array when it is passed in to __getitem__;  They are totally separate classes.

Ranges can contain negative integers.  However, sequences do not have
negative indices.  Therefore, negative indices in slices are used to
count from the end instead of from the start.  As stated in the
language docs, "If either bound is negative, the sequence?s length is
added to it."  Therefore, "a[-4:3]" does not wrap around the end of
the sequence because "a[6:3]" does not wrap around the end of the
sequence.

> I realize I can concat. two slice ranges, BUT, the ranges do not always span from negative to positive.

def wrapping_slice(seq, start, stop):
    start, stop, _ = slice(start, stop).indices(len(seq))
    if start <= stop:
        return seq[start:stop]
    else:
        return seq[start:] + seq[:stop]

You'll have to decide for yourself whether you want it to return an
empty list or the entire list if start == stop.


From driscoll at cs.wisc.edu  Mon Oct 29 00:30:22 2012
From: driscoll at cs.wisc.edu (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 23:30:22 -0500
Subject: Simple Python question for some
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmq_Svcpzaq-aqouqrQJ67Xc7=YRZwqEBzVRCOrRXTVXeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00c501cdb567$28ead530$7ac07f90$@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmq_Svcpzaq-aqouqrQJ67Xc7=YRZwqEBzVRCOrRXTVXeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508E065E.5020807@cs.wisc.edu>

On 10/28/2012 7:18 PM, Chris Rebert wrote:
> This is fixed in Python 3, where such nonsensical comparisons will
> instead raise TypeError.

It's worth pointing out that at least one kind of inequality comparison
which some people (e.g. me) would consider nonsensical is still allowed
in Python 3, which is between Boolean values and numbers:

  >>> True < 1
  False
  >>> False < 1
  True

which is probably because

  >>> True == 1
  True
  >>> False == 0
  True

Many people (probably most people, to be honest) disagree with me that
this is wrong, but regardless of whether you like it or not you need to
know what happens in such cases.


On 10/28/2012 7:18 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Which means that strings will ALWAYS be compared as strings, and
> numbers will ALWAYS be compared as numbers, and ne'er the twain shall
> conflict. I can trust Python to compare MD5 hashes reliably:
> 
>>>> "912128034267498495410681495015e0" !=00912128034267498495410681495015"
> True
> 
> Of course, I'm not pointing fingers at any other languages here, but
> this is a known security hole in one rather widely-used one.

If you are PerHaPs talking about the language I think you are, my
favorite fact about that is I'm that I think a while back I saw a bug
entry about something like that and they weren't sure how or even if it
should be fixed.

Evan



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 00:44:56 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 21:44:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<bb922c4b-08b5-4e93-9452-5306b2d953a9@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0215c39b-47f3-46c5-9173-598f0136a881@g7g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 29, 2:09?pm, Andrew <andrewr3m... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I use this arbitrary range code *often* so I need a general purpose solution.
> I looked up slice() but the help is of no use, I don't even know how I might
> overload it to embed some logic to concatenate ranges of data; nor even if
> it is possible.

Slices are passed in if provided to __getitem__/__setitem__/
__delitem__, so you'd need to override it at the list level:

    class RangedSlicer(list):
        def __getitem__(self, item):
            # map item.start, .stop and .step to your own semantics

Then wrap your lists with your RangedSlicer class as needed.


From andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com  Mon Oct 29 00:52:02 2012
From: andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com (Andrew Robinson)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 21:52:02 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpKhfKq+1OUOfNAQUsx5s6OZ8qBXcFcwkYDq4=YJy5i4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmpKhfKq+1OUOfNAQUsx5s6OZ8qBXcFcwkYDq4=YJy5i4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508E0B72.7040107@r3dsolutions.com>

On 10/29/2012 04:32 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> I wonder if what the OP is looking for is not slicing, but something 
> more akin to map. Start with a large object and an iterator that 
> produces keys, and create an iterator/list of their corresponding 
> values. Something like: a=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10] b=[a[i] for i in 
> xrange(-4,3)] It's not strictly a slice operation, but it's a similar 
> sort of thing, and it can do the wraparound quite happily. ChrisA 

A list comprehension ?
That does do what I am interested in, *very* much so.  Quite a gem, Chris!

:-\
I am curious as to how quickly it constructs the result compared to a 
slice operation.

Eg:
a[1:5]
vs.
[ a[i] for i in xrange[1:5] ]

But, unless it were grossly slower -- so that if/then logic and slices 
were generally faster -- I will use it.
Thanks.

--Andrew.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 01:03:47 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 16:03:47 +1100
Subject: Simple Python question for some
In-Reply-To: <508E065E.5020807@cs.wisc.edu>
References: <00c501cdb567$28ead530$7ac07f90$@gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmq_Svcpzaq-aqouqrQJ67Xc7=YRZwqEBzVRCOrRXTVXeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<508E065E.5020807@cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrW-aFx3HhwpK8nyn6C4zP1_bpPz3cVUas528bJVbbB-g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Evan Driscoll <driscoll at cs.wisc.edu> wrote:
> On 10/28/2012 7:18 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> Which means that strings will ALWAYS be compared as strings, and
>> numbers will ALWAYS be compared as numbers, and ne'er the twain shall
>> conflict. I can trust Python to compare MD5 hashes reliably:
>>
>>>>> "912128034267498495410681495015e0" !=00912128034267498495410681495015"
>> True
>>
>> Of course, I'm not pointing fingers at any other languages here, but
>> this is a known security hole in one rather widely-used one.
>
> If you are PerHaPs talking about the language I think you are, my
> favorite fact about that is I'm that I think a while back I saw a bug
> entry about something like that and they weren't sure how or even if it
> should be fixed.

Indeed. So it's an issue unlikely to go away any time soon.

ChrisA


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Oct 29 01:14:03 2012
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 22:14:03 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<bb922c4b-08b5-4e93-9452-5306b2d953a9@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x7gq96esk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Andrew <andrewr3mail at gmail.com> writes:
> So: Why does python choose to convert them to positive indexes, and
> have slice operate differently than xrange 

There was a thread a few years back, I think started by Bryan Olson,
that made the case that slice indexing is a Python wart for further
reasons than the above, and suggesting a notation like x[$-5] to denote
what we now call x[-5] (i.e. $ is the length of the string).  So your
example x[$-4:3] would clearly be the same thing as x[6:3] and not give
any suggestion that it might wrap around.


From farrellpolymath at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 01:40:13 2012
From: farrellpolymath at gmail.com (farrellpolymath at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 22:40:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numpy module
Message-ID: <5a86d3fc-1dff-4119-bda9-aa6e631758d5@googlegroups.com>

Hello to the group!

I've learned a lot about Ubuntu just trying to install numpy for Python 3.2.3. I've finally managed to put it in the Python3.2 directory but when I try to import it, I still get there's "no module named numpy." There are other modules in the same directory, like 'email' and it imports fine.

Does Numpy 1.6.2 not run with Python 3.2.3?

Can anybody help? Thank you in advance.

Peter Farrell


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Oct 29 02:00:28 2012
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 23:00:28 -0700
Subject: Numpy module
In-Reply-To: <5a86d3fc-1dff-4119-bda9-aa6e631758d5@googlegroups.com>
References: <5a86d3fc-1dff-4119-bda9-aa6e631758d5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRQq=jmie4DgobBoo17kKWhJjGEJN5bKQ=H1OcDy6MjZOA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 10:40 PM,  <farrellpolymath at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've learned a lot about Ubuntu just trying to install numpy for Python 3.2.3. I've finally managed to put it in the Python3.2 directory but when I try to import it, I still get there's "no module named numpy." There are other modules in the same directory, like 'email' and it imports fine.

A. It properly belongs under "site-packages"
B. You ought to just install it using pip
(http://www.pip-installer.org ) or apt-get, rather than manually.

> Does Numpy 1.6.2 not run with Python 3.2.3?

They are compatible.
http://scipy.github.com/faq.html#do-numpy-and-scipy-support-python-3-x :
"The first release of NumPy to support Python 3 was NumPy 1.5.0."

Cheers,
Chris


From andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com  Mon Oct 29 02:01:45 2012
From: andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com (Andrew Robinson)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 23:01:45 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>

On 10/29/2012 04:19 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 00:54:29 -0700, Andrew wrote:
>
> Slices and iterators have different purposes and therefore have not been
> made interchangeable. Yes, there are certain similarities between a slice
> and xrange, but there are also significant differences.
Aha, now were getting to the actual subject.

> [snip]
>> In 'C', where Python is written,
> That's a popular misapprehension. Python is written in Java, or Lisp, or
> Haskell, or CLR (dot Net), or RPython, or Ocaml, or Parrot. Each of those
> languages have, or had, at least one Python implementation. Oh, there's
> also a version written in C, or so I have heard.
:-P
I didn't say it was only written in "C",  but in "C" where it is 
implemented.
I will be porting Python 3.xx to a super low power embedded processor 
(MSP430), both space and speed are at a premium.
Running Python on top of Java would be a *SERIOUS* mistake.  .NET won't 
even run on this system. etc.

>
>
>> Thank you for the code snippet; I don't think it likely that existing
>> programs depend on nor use a negative index and a positive index
>> expecting to take a small chunk in the center...
> On the contrary. That is the most straightforward and useful idea of
> slicing, to grab a contiguous slice of items.
Show me an example where someone would write a slice with a negative and 
a positive index (both in the same slice);
and have that slice grab a contiguous slice in the *middle* of the list 
with orientation of lower index to greater index.
I have asked before;  It's not that I don't think it possible -- it's 
that I can't imagine a common situation.

> Why would you want to grab a slice from the end of the list, and a slice
> from the start of the list, and swap them around? Apart from simulating
> card shuffles and cuts, who does that?
Advanced statistics programmers using lookup tables that are 
symmetrical.  Try Physicists too -- but they're notably weird.

>> My intended inferences about the iterator vs. slice question was perhaps
>> not obvious to you; Notice: an iterator is not *allowed* in
>> __getitem__().
> Actually, you can write __getitem__ for your own classes to accept
> anything you like.
Yes, I realize that.
But, why can't I just overload the existing __getitem__ for lists and 
not bother writing an entire class?
Everything in Python is supposed to be an object and one of the big 
supposed "selling" points is the ability to overload "any" object's methods.
The lists aren't special -- they're just a bunch of constant decimal 
numbers, typically given as a large tuple.

>
> py>  class Test:
> ...     def __getitem__(self, index):
> ...             return index
> ...
Better:
 >>> class Test:
...     def __getitem__( self, *index ):
...             return index

No extra curlies required...

> You say that as if it were a bad thing.

hmmm... and you as if sarcastic? :-)
It is a bad thing to have any strictly un-necessary and non-code saving 
objects where memory is restricted.

> What existing class is that? It certainly isn't xrange.
>
> Because xrange represents a concrete sequence of numbers, all three of
> start, end and stride must be concrete, known, integers:
>

Let's up the ante.  I'll admit xrange() won't do "later" fill in the 
blank -- BUT --
xrange() is a subclass of an *existing* class called iterator.
Iterators are very general.  They can even be made random.

>> The philosophy of Python is to have exactly one way to do something when
>> possible; so, why create a stand alone class that does nothing an
>> existing class could already do, and do it better ?
> py>  xrange(4, None, 2)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in<module>
> TypeError: an integer is required

Hmmm..
Let's try your example exactly as shown...

"hello world"[aslice]
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
NameError: name 'aslice' is not defined

WOW. Cool.
Where did the blanks *actually* get filled in?  Or HOW WILL they in your 
next post?
>
> On the contrary, a simple list of three values not only could not do 
> everything a slice does, but it's over twice the size! 
Yeah, There is a definite issue there.  But the case isn't decided by 
that number alone.
A slice is storing three integers -- and an integer is size is 12.
So, slices don't use integers.  If the type that *IS* used happens to be 
a real Python type, we may merely typecast integers to that type -- 
insert them in a tuple and by definition, they must be the same size.

  Looking at some of the online programming notes -- a slice apparently 
doesn't use an integer storage variable that is capable of arbitrary 
expansion. =-O -- and hence, won't work for very large sized lists.  
That actually explains some crashes I have noted in the past when 
working with 20 million element lists that I wanted a slice of.  I had 
*plenty* of ram on that system.
Besides: The program code to implement slice() is undoubtedly larger 
than 12 bytes of savings!
How many slices() are typically found in memory simultaneously?

You're on the way to convincing me -- but you need to show off this fill 
in the blank issue.
That's a difference of kind -- and not of size.
An iterator, could be an object with methods...  So what common 
application uses this "fill" in the blank stuff?






From andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com  Mon Oct 29 02:13:40 2012
From: andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com (Andrew Robinson)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 23:13:40 -0700
Subject: I need help installing pypng in Python 3.3
In-Reply-To: <c2254bc0-6dd6-4c4c-b73a-a89ebbe64c4c@googlegroups.com>
References: <c2254bc0-6dd6-4c4c-b73a-a89ebbe64c4c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <508E1E94.7090805@r3dsolutions.com>

On 10/29/2012 05:23 AM, icgwh wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I am very new to python. I am currently porting a little project of mine from java to python and I need to be able to construct and write png images. I naturally turned myself toward pypng to accomplish this.
I don't know if this will help, but:

There is a package called image magic; which can convert any image to 
any other type of image.
If that would not be a burden to install (most OS's have pre-compiled 
working binaries) -- you could easily write a portable bitmap file to 
disk using python (even without a library) -- and then convert it to png.

I have a little script I wrote in python to create a canvas, and allow 
you to draw on it using very simple line drawing primitives, and then 
save it to PBM.  It's simple enough (only draws lines with different 
pens) that you could examine it and write your own script to do the same 
or better.

If this interests you, I will see if I can post the py script; or email 
it to you.

--Andrew.




From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Mon Oct 29 03:38:25 2012
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (F.R.)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 08:38:25 +0100
Subject: [Gimp-user] export to non xcf
In-Reply-To: <20121028200910.277150@gmx.net>
References: <1335602895.20121028132639@gmail.com>
	<20121028200910.277150@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <508E3271.6000002@bluewin.ch>

On 10/28/2012 09:09 PM, Michael Schumacher wrote:
>> Von: Donald Miller <damiller2 at gmail.com>
>> Can't directly save to jpg, so exported.
>> Export to jpg made png. Same for psd.
>> Shouldn't name track chosen format, so no manual override needed?
> Maybe you had set the file-type chooser to this format?
> The default "By extension" should do what you want, any other value is for special cases like you've discovered, like ambiguous file name extensions.
>
>
> Regards,
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> gimp-user-list mailing list
> gimp-user-list at gnome.org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
I am contending with a similar malfunction: I can export by extension, 
but when done Gimp closes. The exported file exists, but I need to 
restart Gimp after every export. No loss of capability, but annoying.

Judging by the flood of Gimp-related posts of late and the great variety 
of the issues raised, there seem to be major stability or environmental 
compatibility problems. I am running Gimp 2.6.12 on Ubunty 12.04.
I found a Gimp user list 
(https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list) and intend to 
check it out the moment I get around to it.

Frederic



From andrewr3mail at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 03:54:29 2012
From: andrewr3mail at gmail.com (Andrew)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 00:54:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, October 28, 2012 9:26:01 PM UTC-7, Ian wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 10:00 PM,  Andrew wrote:
> 
> > Hi Ian,
> 
> > Well, no it really isn't equivalent.
> 
> > Consider a programmer who writes:
> 
> > xrange(-4,3) *wants* [-4,-3,-2,-1,0,1,2]
> 
> >
> 
> > That is the "idea" of a range; for what reason would anyone *EVER* want -4 to +3 to be 6:3???
> 
> 
> 
> That is what ranges do, but your question was about slices, not ranges.

Actually, I said in the OP:

"I also don't understand why slice() is not equivalent to an iterator, but can replace an integer in __getitem__() whereas xrange() can't."

=========================

Thank you for the code snippet; I don't think it likely that existing programs depend on nor use a negative index and a positive index expecting to take a small chunk in the center... hence, I would return the whole array; Or if someone said [-len(listX) : len(listX)+1 ] I would return the whole array twice.
That's the maximum that is possible.
If someone could show me a normal/reasonable script which *would* expect the other behavior, I'd like to know; compatibility is important.

=========================

My intended inferences about the iterator vs. slice question was perhaps not obvious to you; Notice: an iterator is not *allowed* in __getitem__().

The slice class when passed to __getitem__()  was created to merely pass two numbers and a stride to __getitem__;  As far as I know slice() itself does *nothing* in the actual processing of the elements.  So, it's *redundant* functionality, and far worse, it's restrictive.

The philosophy of Python is to have exactly one way to do something when possible; so, why create a stand alone class that does nothing an existing class could already do, and do it better ?

A simple list of three values would be just as efficient as slice()!
xrange is more flexible, and can be just as efficient.

So, Have I misunderstood the operation of slice()?  I think I might have... but I don't know.

In 'C', where Python is written, circularly linked lists -- and arrays are both very efficient ways of accessing data.  Arrays can, in fact, have negative indexes -- perhaps contrary to what you thought.  One merely defines a variable to act as the base pointer to the array and initialize it to the *end* of the array. Nor is the size of the data elements an issue, since in Python all classes are accessed by pointers which are of uniform size. I routinely do this in C.

Consider, also, that xrange() does not actually create a list -- but merely an iterator generating integers which is exactly what __getitem__ works on.
So, xrange() does not need to incur a memory or noticeable time penalty.

>From micro-python, it's clear that their implementation of xrange() is at the 'C' level; which is extremely fast.


From andrewr3mail at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 03:54:29 2012
From: andrewr3mail at gmail.com (Andrew)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 00:54:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, October 28, 2012 9:26:01 PM UTC-7, Ian wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 10:00 PM,  Andrew wrote:
> 
> > Hi Ian,
> 
> > Well, no it really isn't equivalent.
> 
> > Consider a programmer who writes:
> 
> > xrange(-4,3) *wants* [-4,-3,-2,-1,0,1,2]
> 
> >
> 
> > That is the "idea" of a range; for what reason would anyone *EVER* want -4 to +3 to be 6:3???
> 
> 
> 
> That is what ranges do, but your question was about slices, not ranges.

Actually, I said in the OP:

"I also don't understand why slice() is not equivalent to an iterator, but can replace an integer in __getitem__() whereas xrange() can't."

=========================

Thank you for the code snippet; I don't think it likely that existing programs depend on nor use a negative index and a positive index expecting to take a small chunk in the center... hence, I would return the whole array; Or if someone said [-len(listX) : len(listX)+1 ] I would return the whole array twice.
That's the maximum that is possible.
If someone could show me a normal/reasonable script which *would* expect the other behavior, I'd like to know; compatibility is important.

=========================

My intended inferences about the iterator vs. slice question was perhaps not obvious to you; Notice: an iterator is not *allowed* in __getitem__().

The slice class when passed to __getitem__()  was created to merely pass two numbers and a stride to __getitem__;  As far as I know slice() itself does *nothing* in the actual processing of the elements.  So, it's *redundant* functionality, and far worse, it's restrictive.

The philosophy of Python is to have exactly one way to do something when possible; so, why create a stand alone class that does nothing an existing class could already do, and do it better ?

A simple list of three values would be just as efficient as slice()!
xrange is more flexible, and can be just as efficient.

So, Have I misunderstood the operation of slice()?  I think I might have... but I don't know.

In 'C', where Python is written, circularly linked lists -- and arrays are both very efficient ways of accessing data.  Arrays can, in fact, have negative indexes -- perhaps contrary to what you thought.  One merely defines a variable to act as the base pointer to the array and initialize it to the *end* of the array. Nor is the size of the data elements an issue, since in Python all classes are accessed by pointers which are of uniform size. I routinely do this in C.

Consider, also, that xrange() does not actually create a list -- but merely an iterator generating integers which is exactly what __getitem__ works on.
So, xrange() does not need to incur a memory or noticeable time penalty.

>From micro-python, it's clear that their implementation of xrange() is at the 'C' level; which is extremely fast.


From andrewr3mail at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 04:08:28 2012
From: andrewr3mail at gmail.com (andrewr3mail at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 01:08:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <7x7gq96esk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<bb922c4b-08b5-4e93-9452-5306b2d953a9@googlegroups.com>
	<7x7gq96esk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <73d3b1ce-dde3-47d5-adb4-2beb5537598a@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, October 28, 2012 10:14:03 PM UTC-7, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Andrew writes:
> 
> > So: Why does python choose to convert them to positive indexes, and
> 
> > have slice operate differently than xrange 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a thread a few years back, I think started by Bryan Olson,
> 
> that made the case that slice indexing is a Python wart for further
> 
> reasons than the above, and suggesting a notation like x[$-5] to denote
> 
> what we now call x[-5] (i.e. $ is the length of the string).  So your
> 
> example x[$-4:3] would clearly be the same thing as x[6:3] and not give
> 
> any suggestion that it might wrap around.

I'm getting very frustrated with the editor provided for this group... It keeps posting prematurely, and putting my email in even when I tell it not to each time; and there is no way to edit a post... but deleting is ok...

I think Olson makes a good point.  The len() operator is so ubiquitous that it would be very useful to have a shorthand like that.

I'll have to look for his thread.

I'm thinking that I might just patch my version of Python 3.x, in C, to allow iterators to be passed to __getitem__; I haven't ever seen someone wanting to use mixed sign indexes to extract a small chunk of an array in the middle; so I don't think my patch will break existing code.

The snippets of code given by other posters in the thread might also be used to make a compatibility wrapper; I'll have to study it closer; so that distributed code would still work on unpatched python, albeit much slower.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Oct 29 04:18:32 2012
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 01:18:32 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRTWNvw66m4U2ksoLsdgZf2L9dUdPa0oqm6EW1KQdiGz1w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 12:54 AM, Andrew <andrewr3mail at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, October 28, 2012 9:26:01 PM UTC-7, Ian wrote:
>> On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 10:00 PM,  Andrew wrote:
<snip>
> The slice class when passed to __getitem__()  was created to merely pass two numbers and a stride to __getitem__;  As far as I know slice() itself does *nothing* in the actual processing of the elements.  So, it's *redundant* functionality, and far worse, it's restrictive.
>
> The philosophy of Python is to have exactly one way to do something when possible; so, why create a stand alone class that does nothing an existing class could already do, and do it better ?
>
> A simple list of three values would be just as efficient as slice()!
> xrange is more flexible, and can be just as efficient.
>
> So, Have I misunderstood the operation of slice()?  I think I might have... but I don't know.

`slice` is intentionally lenient about the types of the start, stop, and step:
>>> class Foo:
...     def __getitem__(self, slice_):
...         print(slice_)
...         return 42
...
>>> Foo()["a":"b":"c"]
slice('a', 'b', 'c')
42
>>>
Thus, the thing being sliced is free to interpret the parts of the
slice however it wishes; hence, slice() is unable to contain the
"processing" you speak of.
By contrast, xrange() limits itself to integers.
To support the more general case, the slice syntax thus produces a
`slice` rather than an `xrange`.
Doubtlessly, there are also historical issues involved. As implied by
the ugliness of its name, `xrange` was added to the language
relatively later.

Cheers,
Chris


From andrewr3mail at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 04:24:30 2012
From: andrewr3mail at gmail.com (andrewr3mail at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 01:24:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <0215c39b-47f3-46c5-9173-598f0136a881@g7g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<bb922c4b-08b5-4e93-9452-5306b2d953a9@googlegroups.com>
	<0215c39b-47f3-46c5-9173-598f0136a881@g7g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b50501de-b204-4e47-b907-0a249281b3d1@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, October 28, 2012 9:44:56 PM UTC-7, alex23 wrote:
> On Oct 29, 2:09?pm, Andrew <andrewr3m... at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > I use this arbitrary range code *often* so I need a general purpose solution.
> 
> > I looked up slice() but the help is of no use, I don't even know how I might
> 
> > overload it to embed some logic to concatenate ranges of data; nor even if
> 
> > it is possible.
> 
> 
> 
> Slices are passed in if provided to __getitem__/__setitem__/
> 
> __delitem__, so you'd need to override it at the list level:
> 
> 
> 
>     class RangedSlicer(list):
> 
>         def __getitem__(self, item):
> 
>             # map item.start, .stop and .step to your own semantics
> 
> 
> 
> Then wrap your lists with your RangedSlicer class as needed.

Hmmm...

I began a test in an interactive shell:
>>> class RangedSlicer(list):
...     def __getitem__(self,item):
...             print item
... 
>>> a=[1,2,3,4,5]
>>> a.__getitem__( slice(1,5) )
[2, 3, 4, 5]

Very odd...  I would have expected [1,2,3,4]

>>> a.__getitem__( slice(1,8) )
[2, 3, 4, 5]

So, slice() somehow was truncated although it ought to have been executed first, and passed to __getitem__() before __getitem__ could affect it.
That requires some tricky programming!

Not only that, but,
a.__getitem__( xrange[1,8] )
Causes an exception before the __getitem__ shadowing received it.

I don't see how I can over-ride it with your suggestion, but that's very inconsistent.... for your idea seems to be normal python that would work for user defined classes.



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Oct 29 04:26:59 2012
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 01:26:59 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <73d3b1ce-dde3-47d5-adb4-2beb5537598a@googlegroups.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<bb922c4b-08b5-4e93-9452-5306b2d953a9@googlegroups.com>
	<7x7gq96esk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<73d3b1ce-dde3-47d5-adb4-2beb5537598a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRTD54q9W6YgTg83P3nnAgyVJQ4JZri1+fCfUVjKoCiTTg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:08 AM,  <andrewr3mail at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, October 28, 2012 10:14:03 PM UTC-7, Paul Rubin wrote:
>> Andrew writes:
<snip>
> I'm getting very frustrated with the editor provided for this group... It keeps posting prematurely, and putting my email in even when I tell it not to each time; and there is no way to edit a post... but deleting is ok...

This is a Usenet newsgroup[1], not a web forum. There are noteworthy
differences between the two.
FWICT, you happen to be accessing us via Google Groups, which is
widely acknowledged to suck. We are not hosted *by* Google Groups;
they just happen to carry our posts.
Personally, I'd suggest using our mailing list mirror instead:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Or use some other, better newsgroup provider that also carries us.

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet

Regards,
Chris


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Oct 29 04:37:47 2012
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 01:37:47 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <b50501de-b204-4e47-b907-0a249281b3d1@googlegroups.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<bb922c4b-08b5-4e93-9452-5306b2d953a9@googlegroups.com>
	<0215c39b-47f3-46c5-9173-598f0136a881@g7g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<b50501de-b204-4e47-b907-0a249281b3d1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAMZYqRT9M7vEQAb70O9fCa7fNJZnn667QBJAi4iz-MjcA9w9-w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:24 AM,  <andrewr3mail at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, October 28, 2012 9:44:56 PM UTC-7, alex23 wrote:
>> On Oct 29, 2:09 pm, Andrew <andrewr3m... at gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
>>     class RangedSlicer(list):
<snip>
>> Then wrap your lists with your RangedSlicer class as needed.
>
> Hmmm...
>
> I began a test in an interactive shell:
>>>> class RangedSlicer(list):
> ...     def __getitem__(self,item):
> ...             print item
> ?

This just defines a class; it doesn't modify in-place the normal
behavior of plain lists. You have to actually *use* the class.

>>>> a=[1,2,3,4,5]

You never wrapped `a` in a RangedSlicer or otherwise made use of RangedSlicer!
You wanted:
a = RangedSlicer([1,2,3,4,5])

>>>> a.__getitem__( slice(1,5) )
> [2, 3, 4, 5]
>
> Very odd...  I would have expected [1,2,3,4]

"[2, 3, 4, 5]" is the return value from `a.__getitem__( slice(1,5) )`
(or, equivalently, from `[1,2,3,4,5][1:5]`). It is not the result of
"print item"; that line of code is never executed since you never used
the RangedSlicer class at all.

Regards,
Chris


From andrewr3mail at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 04:59:06 2012
From: andrewr3mail at gmail.com (andrewr3mail at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 01:59:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2999.1351499869.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<bb922c4b-08b5-4e93-9452-5306b2d953a9@googlegroups.com>
	<0215c39b-47f3-46c5-9173-598f0136a881@g7g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<b50501de-b204-4e47-b907-0a249281b3d1@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2999.1351499869.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b0ec0510-401c-46c6-b3b5-f3e829f40afa@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 29, 2012 1:38:04 AM UTC-7, Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:24 AM, 
> 
> > On Sunday, October 28, 2012 9:44:56 PM UTC-7, alex23 wrote:
> 
> >> On Oct 29, 2:09 pm, Andrew < wrote:
> 
> You never wrapped `a` in a RangedSlicer or otherwise made use of RangedSlicer!
> 
> You wanted:
> 
> a = RangedSlicer([1,2,3,4,5])
> 
> 
> 
> >>>> a.__getitem__( slice(1,5) )
> 
> > [2, 3, 4, 5]
> 
> >
> 
> > Very odd...  I would have expected [1,2,3,4]
> 
> 
> 
> "[2, 3, 4, 5]" is the return value from `a.__getitem__( slice(1,5) )`
> 
> (or, equivalently, from `[1,2,3,4,5][1:5]`). It is not the result of
> 
> "print item"; that line of code is never executed since you never used
> 
> the RangedSlicer class at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Chris

My apology --- I deleted that post; yet it didn't delete... I saw my mistake seconds after posting.

***** gmail.

Note: I subscribed to the python-list, and am able to recieve e-mails, but I don't see how to write a post for this particular thread nor subscribe to this particular thread...

A brief suggestion, or link to a howto would be *much* appreciated.



From andrewr3mail at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 04:59:06 2012
From: andrewr3mail at gmail.com (andrewr3mail at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 01:59:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2999.1351499869.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<bb922c4b-08b5-4e93-9452-5306b2d953a9@googlegroups.com>
	<0215c39b-47f3-46c5-9173-598f0136a881@g7g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<b50501de-b204-4e47-b907-0a249281b3d1@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2999.1351499869.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b0ec0510-401c-46c6-b3b5-f3e829f40afa@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 29, 2012 1:38:04 AM UTC-7, Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:24 AM, 
> 
> > On Sunday, October 28, 2012 9:44:56 PM UTC-7, alex23 wrote:
> 
> >> On Oct 29, 2:09 pm, Andrew < wrote:
> 
> You never wrapped `a` in a RangedSlicer or otherwise made use of RangedSlicer!
> 
> You wanted:
> 
> a = RangedSlicer([1,2,3,4,5])
> 
> 
> 
> >>>> a.__getitem__( slice(1,5) )
> 
> > [2, 3, 4, 5]
> 
> >
> 
> > Very odd...  I would have expected [1,2,3,4]
> 
> 
> 
> "[2, 3, 4, 5]" is the return value from `a.__getitem__( slice(1,5) )`
> 
> (or, equivalently, from `[1,2,3,4,5][1:5]`). It is not the result of
> 
> "print item"; that line of code is never executed since you never used
> 
> the RangedSlicer class at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Chris

My apology --- I deleted that post; yet it didn't delete... I saw my mistake seconds after posting.

***** gmail.

Note: I subscribed to the python-list, and am able to recieve e-mails, but I don't see how to write a post for this particular thread nor subscribe to this particular thread...

A brief suggestion, or link to a howto would be *much* appreciated.



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Oct 29 05:36:01 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:36:01 +0000
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <b0ec0510-401c-46c6-b3b5-f3e829f40afa@googlegroups.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<bb922c4b-08b5-4e93-9452-5306b2d953a9@googlegroups.com>
	<0215c39b-47f3-46c5-9173-598f0136a881@g7g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<b50501de-b204-4e47-b907-0a249281b3d1@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2999.1351499869.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<b0ec0510-401c-46c6-b3b5-f3e829f40afa@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k6lig3$uio$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 29/10/2012 08:59, andrewr3mail at gmail.com wrote:
>
> Note: I subscribed to the python-list, and am able to recieve e-mails, but I don't see how to write a post for this particular thread nor subscribe to this particular thread...
>
> A brief suggestion, or link to a howto would be *much* appreciated.
>

Get yourself a decent email client.  I read all the Python lists that 
I'm interested in using Thunderbird on Windows via gmane.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Oct 29 06:10:45 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 10:10:45 +0000
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508DEA9D.8040702@r3dsolutions.com>
References: <508DEA9D.8040702@r3dsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <k6lkhr$hce$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 29/10/2012 02:31, Andrew Robinson wrote:
> Ok, hopefully this is better.  I love my own e-mail editor...
>
> I can see that the slice() function can pass in arbitrary arguments.
> I'm not sure for lists, which is what the range is applied to, why an
> argument like "a" would be part of a slice.
> I *really* don't see what the advantage of a slice class is over a mere
> list in the order of start, stop, step eg: [ 1,4,9 ]
>
> In a dictionary, where "a" could be a key -- I wasn't aware that there
> was a defined order that the idea of slice could apply to.
>
> When I look at the documentation,
> http://www.python.org/doc//current/c-api/slice
>
> The only thing that slice has which is special, is that the the length
> of the sequence can be given -- and the start and stop index are either
> trimmed or an error (exception???) is thrown.
>
> Where is the information on the more general case of slice()? :-\
>
> I am thinking, can one use the 'super' type of access, to override --
> within the list object itself -- the __getitem__ method, and after
> pre-processing -- call the shadowed method with the modified
> parameters?  That would allow me to use the normal a[-4:6] notation,
> without having to write a wrapper class that must be explicitly called.
>
> I'm thinking something like,
>
> PyListObject.__getitem__= lambda self, slice: ....
>
> --Andrew.
>

I suggest that you go back and read the tutorial about slicing.  I say 
this because we've started with negative array indicies and slice() (but 
Python arrays haven't been mentioned :), then moved onto (x)range and 
now lists, dictionaries and the C API for slices.

An alternative is to tell us precisely what you're trying to achieve. 
The odds are that there's a simple answer waiting in the wings for a 
simple question.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Mon Oct 29 06:21:58 2012
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 11:21:58 +0100
Subject: Help understanding an Object Oriented Program example
In-Reply-To: <61e6d41b-fb4b-4cd4-aaea-ce57188c3f6a@s9g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
References: <61e6d41b-fb4b-4cd4-aaea-ce57188c3f6a@s9g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6v12m9-fgb.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 29.10.2012 00:30, schrieb goldtech:
> class Contact:
>      all_contacts = []
>      def __init__(self, name, email):
>          self.name = name
>          self.email = email
>          Contact.all_contacts.append(self)

Okay, a class that automatically registers all instances in a central list.


> OK, no I do this:
>
>>>> c = Contact('aaa','bbb')
>>>> c = Contact('ccc','ddd')
>>>> c = Contact('eee','fff')
>>>> for i in Contact.all_contacts:
> 	print i.name + '  ' + i.email
>
>
> aaa  bbb
> ccc  ddd
> eee  fff
>>>>
>>>> c.name
> 'eee'
>
> So wouldn't be good to add a check that the var (in this case c) does
> not point to any object before creating an object to keep the list
> correct?

Since you don't use "c", there is no use storing it at all! Note that 
you don't have to store a reference to an object that you created, just 
calling "Contact('fou', 'barre')" without assigning to anything is fine. 
Note that I don't find this example good, in reality I would prefer a 
factory method (e.g. called "register(name, email)") that makes clear 
that you are not simply creating an instance.

Also, concerning OOP, classes in Python are objects, too. Therefore, 
this could be decorated with "@classmethod" to allow the use with 
derived classes. However, I think that's going a bit too far at the 
moment. Just wanted to mention that there are more features waiting for 
you to discover.


> Also all_contacts is a class variable. I think the author is hinting
> that this would be a good idea for a contact list, But I don't fully
> see the usage of it. How would each object use a class variable like
> this? What would be the dot notation?

How would an object use a method defined in the class? The point is that 
when calling "fou.barre(42)", the expression "fou.barre" is evaluated 
first and then used in a call expression with the parameter 42. Note 
that you can even evaluate that expression without calling the resulting 
function, but instead assign its result to a variable. In order to 
evaluate that expression, Python first looks for an attribute "barre" in 
the instance and returns that if found. If the instance doesn't have it, 
it looks in the class via the instances __class__ attribute. At that 
point, a little case-specific magic happens. If it finds a normal 
function without "@classmethod" or "@staticmethod" decorator, it returns 
this function with the first parameter (customary called "self") bound 
to the instance. If it finds a non-function, that object is returned 
as-is instead.

To sum up, you can use "Contact.all_contacts" or e.g. "c.all_contacts" 
to refer to the list of contacts. The second syntax also includes 
"self.all_contacts" when inside a memberfunction, after all the "self" 
is nothing magic or special.

Uli



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Oct 29 06:34:37 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Oct 2012 10:34:37 GMT
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<bb922c4b-08b5-4e93-9452-5306b2d953a9@googlegroups.com>
	<0215c39b-47f3-46c5-9173-598f0136a881@g7g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
	<b50501de-b204-4e47-b907-0a249281b3d1@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2999.1351499869.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<b0ec0510-401c-46c6-b3b5-f3e829f40afa@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <508e5bbd$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 01:59:06 -0700, andrewr3mail wrote:

> Note: I subscribed to the python-list, and am able to recieve e-mails,
> but I don't see how to write a post for this particular thread nor
> subscribe to this particular thread...

The beauty of email is that you don't have to subscribe to a thread. Once 
you subscribe to the mailing list, email is delivered into your inbox. To 
reply to it, just reply to it. To ignore it, throw it in the trash.

Gmail should have a button or three that say "Reply to email" or similar. 
You want the button that says "Reply to All" or "Reply to List". Make 
sure that the reply includes "python-list at python.org" as a recipient.

Delete bits of the quoted email (the lines that start with > characters) 
that are no longer relevant to the conversation. Type your reply. Double 
check that the reply is going to python-list. Then hit Send.

(P.S. when you signed up for python-list at python.org, if you selected the 
option to receive a single daily digest instead of individual emails, 
you're going to have a bad time. Do yourself a favour -- and the rest of 
us -- and change back to individual emails.)



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Oct 29 07:19:38 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Oct 2012 11:19:38 GMT
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 00:54:29 -0700, Andrew wrote:

> Actually, I said in the OP:
> 
> "I also don't understand why slice() is not equivalent to an iterator,
> but can replace an integer in __getitem__() whereas xrange() can't."

Slices and iterators have different purposes and therefore have not been 
made interchangeable. Yes, there are certain similarities between a slice 
and xrange, but there are also significant differences.


> Thank you for the code snippet; I don't think it likely that existing
> programs depend on nor use a negative index and a positive index
> expecting to take a small chunk in the center... 

On the contrary. That is the most straightforward and useful idea of 
slicing, to grab a contiguous slice of items.

Why would you want to grab a slice from the end of the list, and a slice 
from the start of the list, and swap them around? Apart from simulating 
card shuffles and cuts, who does that?


> hence, I would return
> the whole array; Or if someone said [-len(listX) : len(listX)+1 ] I
> would return the whole array twice.

Well, that's one possible interpretation, but it is not the one that 
Python uses. When you create your own language, you can choose whatever 
interpretation seems most useful to you too.



> That's the maximum that is possible.
> If someone could show me a normal/reasonable script which *would* expect
> the other behavior, I'd like to know; compatibility is important.

I'm not entirely sure I understand what you are asking here. 


> My intended inferences about the iterator vs. slice question was perhaps
> not obvious to you; Notice: an iterator is not *allowed* in
> __getitem__().

Actually, you can write __getitem__ for your own classes to accept 
anything you like.

py> class Test:
...     def __getitem__(self, index):
...             return index
...
py> t = Test()
py> t["Hello world"]
'Hello world'
py> t[{'x': None}]
{'x': None}


> The slice class when passed to __getitem__()  was created to merely pass
> two numbers and a stride to __getitem__;  As far as I know slice()
> itself does *nothing* in the actual processing of the elements.  So,
> it's *redundant* functionality, and far worse, it's restrictive.

You say that as if it were a bad thing.


> The philosophy of Python is to have exactly one way to do something when
> possible; so, why create a stand alone class that does nothing an
> existing class could already do, and do it better ?

What existing class is that? It certainly isn't xrange.

Because xrange represents a concrete sequence of numbers, all three of 
start, end and stride must be concrete, known, integers:

py> xrange(4, None, 2)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: an integer is required

Whereas slices can trivially include blanks that get filled in only when 
actually used:

py> "hello world"[aslice]
'owrd'
py> "NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!"[aslice]
'D xet h pns nusto!'


So, no, xrange is no substitute for slices. Not even close.


> A simple list of three values would be just as efficient as slice()!

On the contrary, a simple list of three values not only could not do 
everything a slice does, but it's over twice the size!

py> sys.getsizeof([1, 2, 3])
44
py> sys.getsizeof(slice(1, 2, 3))
20


> xrange is more flexible, and can be just as efficient.

Less flexible, less efficient.


[snip]
> In 'C', where Python is written, 

That's a popular misapprehension. Python is written in Java, or Lisp, or 
Haskell, or CLR (dot Net), or RPython, or Ocaml, or Parrot. Each of those 
languages have, or had, at least one Python implementation. Oh, there's 
also a version written in C, or so I have heard.


-- 
Steven


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 07:32:05 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 22:32:05 +1100
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpKhfKq+1OUOfNAQUsx5s6OZ8qBXcFcwkYDq4=YJy5i4w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:19 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> In 'C', where Python is written,
>
> That's a popular misapprehension. Python is written in Java, or Lisp, or
> Haskell, or CLR (dot Net), or RPython, or Ocaml, or Parrot. Each of those
> languages have, or had, at least one Python implementation. Oh, there's
> also a version written in C, or so I have heard.

And that's not including the human-brain implementation, perhaps the
most important of all. Although the current port of Python to my brain
isn't quite a complete implementation, lacking a few bits that I
should probably get to at some point, but even so, it's as useful to
me as firing up IDLE.

I wonder if what the OP is looking for is not slicing, but something
more akin to map. Start with a large object and an iterator that
produces keys, and create an iterator/list of their corresponding
values. Something like:

a=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]
b=[a[i] for i in xrange(-4,3)]

It's not strictly a slice operation, but it's a similar sort of thing,
and it can do the wraparound quite happily.

ChrisA


From ehsmenggroups at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 07:41:42 2012
From: ehsmenggroups at gmail.com (ehsmenggroups at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 04:41:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Applying a paid third party ssl certificate
Message-ID: <afaa2df6-86f6-4616-af65-c8bd76557aa2@googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

I haven't quite figured out how to apply a paid ssl cert, say RapidSSL free SSL test from Python's recent sponsor sslmatrix.com and what to do with that to make Python happy.

This good fellow suggests using the PEM format. I tried and failed.
http://www.minnmyatsoe.com/category/python-2/

The self signed cert recepies found all work swell, but some browsers (webkit) gets very upset indeed. I want to use ajax requests from clients (e.g autocompletion, stats collection etc) and put that in a python program without hogging down the main apache stack, but without a proper ssl cert this doesn't work.

Does anyone have any ideas what to do?

Thanks,
Marcus


From neilc at norwich.edu  Mon Oct 29 07:53:52 2012
From: neilc at norwich.edu (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 29 Oct 2012 11:53:52 GMT
Subject: attaching names to subexpressions
References: <a533d812-480e-479b-9210-7097c2d70d73@a4g2000pbo.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2934.1351343030.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508c810f$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2950.1351403908.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <af792fF490mU2@mid.individual.net>

On 2012-10-28, Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> The 'canonical way'
>>> while True:
>>>      line = complex_expression
>>>      if not line:
>>>          break
>>>      do_something_with(line)
>>>
>>> avoids this problem, but I was never really convinced about the beauty /
>>> readbility of this construct.
>>>
>>> In
>>> my opinion I shouldn't be obliged to read any of the indented lines of
>>> the while statement on a first 'visual' pass through somebody elses code
>>> and still be able to see what the loop iterates through.
>>
>> Fine. Then write your code as:
>>
>> line = function(x, y, z)
>> while line:
>>      do something with(line)
>>      line = function(x, y, z)
>
> We have a problem, and two solutions. Solution 1 has downside
> A, and solution 2 has downside B. If he complains about
> downside A, you say, well, use solution 2. If he complains
> about downside B, you say, well, use solution 1.
>
> What if he wants to avoid both downsides A and B? What solution
> does he use then?

You abandon the while loop and compose a generator.

-- 
Neil Cerutti


From icgwh at tagyourself.com  Mon Oct 29 08:23:27 2012
From: icgwh at tagyourself.com (icgwh at tagyourself.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 05:23:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: I need help installing pypng in Python 3.3
Message-ID: <c2254bc0-6dd6-4c4c-b73a-a89ebbe64c4c@googlegroups.com>

Hello all,

I am very new to python. I am currently porting a little project of mine from java to python and I need to be able to construct and write png images. I naturally turned myself toward pypng to accomplish this.

I learned from the net that pypng 0.0.13 is supposed to work in Python 3.x when run through '2to3'. However, in my case, it apparently does not. 

I ran into various problems when trying to install it, some of them I could fix myself. First I attempted to install pip but I couldn't get Windows to recognize pip as an internal command as the prompt informs me.
Then I tried to directly run "setup.py install" from the pypng folder. It didn't work as I got a syntax error. I noticed that in the beginning of the installation process, the following warning was displayed: "conf[use_2to3 = true] unrecognized configuration option"

At that point I was already pretty pissed but I managed to make the warning disappear by updating (installing?) distribute. After that there are no more errors during the installation process and everything seems to work fine. (This seems still strange to me as 2to3 was present in Tools/Script out of the box)


I use pydev in Eclipse and pydev reports several error in png.py anytime I want to import or use it. When trying to import from IDLE I get:

except ValueError, e:
                 ^
Syntax error, line 1863

that paricular error I was able to fix by changing it to "except ValueError as e:" but I don't understand why 2to3 didn't do it automatically.
There are several more errors reported by pydev, here are a few:

line 1368 : "raise ValueError('Chunk %s too short for checksum.', tag)"
            Undefined variable: tag

line 2736 : "rows = [map(numpy.uint16, range(0,0x10000,0x5555))]"
            Undefined variable from import: uint16


The second one made me suspect I needed to install numpy too. As there are no installers for numpy aimed toward Python3.3.

I decided to install Python2.7 and retry the whole process. Unfortunately I didn't get much more success. I get the exact same errors in pydev when using the 2.7 version of the interpreter and I cannot install numpy either because when I run the .exe file aimed toward Python 2.7 i get the error message:

"Python version 2.7 required, which was not found in the registry"

I then have the option to manually enter the path to Python 2.7 but the textform is greyed out and I can't type in anything.


At that point I decided to go look for help and Here I am...

I am truly grateful to anyone who takes the time to help me in this matter.
Thank you!


From mining.facts at googlemail.com  Mon Oct 29 08:36:17 2012
From: mining.facts at googlemail.com (Christian)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 05:36:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OrderedDict / DIctComprehension
Message-ID: <b8a2f8fa-c53d-413b-b3df-5883d075a012@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

is there a way building an OrderedDict faster?

Thanks in advance
Christian

@timeit
def ordered(n=100000):
    d = OrderedDict()
    for i in xrange(n):
        d['key'+str(i)] = i
    return d


@timeit
def comprehension(n=100000):
    d = { 'key'+str(i):i for i in xrange(n) }
    return d


ordered()
comprehension()

'ordered' ((), {}) 0.724609 sec
'comprehension' ((), {}) 0.098318 sec


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 08:40:53 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 23:40:53 +1100
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508E0B72.7040107@r3dsolutions.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmpKhfKq+1OUOfNAQUsx5s6OZ8qBXcFcwkYDq4=YJy5i4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<508E0B72.7040107@r3dsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpMLQz9MogXP=6kvOOCZVvSBiAf6GVd8W=zu+dhWuTC5Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 3:52 PM, Andrew Robinson
<andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com> wrote:
> I am curious as to how quickly it constructs the result compared to a slice
> operation.
>
> Eg:
> a[1:5]
> vs.
> [ a[i] for i in xrange[1:5] ]

For the most part, don't concern yourself with performance. Go with
functionality and readability. In the trivial case shown here, the
slice is WAY clearer, so it should definitely be the one used; in
other cases, the slice might simply be insufficient, so you go with
whatever achieves your goal. Performance will usually be "good
enough", even if there's a marginally faster way.

ChrisA


From js at globe.de  Mon Oct 29 08:48:28 2012
From: js at globe.de (Schneider)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 13:48:28 +0100
Subject: SSH Connection with Python
In-Reply-To: <-3764904413297147602@unknownmsgid>
References: <5089119A.2040902@globe.de> <-3764904413297147602@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <508E7B1C.4080908@globe.de>

thank you guys for the huge list of answers,
In my setting I have to access some routers and firewall from a 
linux-client.

I think I'll try Fabric.


On 26.10.2012 06:20, Rodrick Brown wrote:
> On Oct 25, 2012, at 6:34 AM, Schneider <js at globe.de> wrote:
>
>> Hi Folkz,
>> how can i create a SSH-Connection with python? I have to send some commands to the remote host and parse their answers.
>> greatz Johannes
> Fabric is the way to go!
>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From mining.facts at googlemail.com  Mon Oct 29 09:03:44 2012
From: mining.facts at googlemail.com (Christian)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 06:03:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SSH Connection with Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2834.1351161105.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2834.1351161105.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1b91a5ba-69ea-4cd4-97fe-420fc7adf2ad@googlegroups.com>

Am Donnerstag, 25. Oktober 2012 12:31:46 UTC+2 schrieb Schneider:
> Hi Folkz,
> 
> how can i create a SSH-Connection with python? I have to send some 
> 
> commands to the remote host and parse their answers.
> 
> greatz Johannes

There is a module in chilkat.
http://www.example-code.com/python/ssh_exec.asp
Don't know if it is worth the money, never used it.

Christian


From mining.facts at googlemail.com  Mon Oct 29 09:03:44 2012
From: mining.facts at googlemail.com (Christian)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 06:03:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SSH Connection with Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2834.1351161105.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2834.1351161105.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1b91a5ba-69ea-4cd4-97fe-420fc7adf2ad@googlegroups.com>

Am Donnerstag, 25. Oktober 2012 12:31:46 UTC+2 schrieb Schneider:
> Hi Folkz,
> 
> how can i create a SSH-Connection with python? I have to send some 
> 
> commands to the remote host and parse their answers.
> 
> greatz Johannes

There is a module in chilkat.
http://www.example-code.com/python/ssh_exec.asp
Don't know if it is worth the money, never used it.

Christian


From roy at panix.com  Mon Oct 29 09:10:57 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:10:57 -0400
Subject: SSH Connection with Python
References: <5089119A.2040902@globe.de>
	<CANy1k1gV4s8kg0qneZ-gvybiR_y4NwhH_2gR8cdKTmPi7DckWg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2977.1351455364.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-294AF8.09105729102012@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2977.1351455364.27098.python-list at python.org>,
 Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:

> The sh module looks intersting, but it's not supported for Windows 
> platforms.

"The X module looks interesting but it's not supported for Windows" is 
true for many values of X.  It's all part of the TCO of using a 
brain-dead operating system.


From icgwh at tagyourself.com  Mon Oct 29 09:18:56 2012
From: icgwh at tagyourself.com (icgwh at tagyourself.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 06:18:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: I need help installing pypng in Python 3.3
In-Reply-To: <c2254bc0-6dd6-4c4c-b73a-a89ebbe64c4c@googlegroups.com>
References: <c2254bc0-6dd6-4c4c-b73a-a89ebbe64c4c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <df8fcd5c-df04-4c5c-b8b7-cc6d51ba2ba2@googlegroups.com>

I probably should have mentioned that I'm under W7 ultimate x64, I'm using eclipse Juno (latest) and pydev 2.7.1


From icgwh at tagyourself.com  Mon Oct 29 09:39:03 2012
From: icgwh at tagyourself.com (icgwh at tagyourself.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 06:39:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: I need help installing pypng in Python 3.3
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3010.1351516779.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <c2254bc0-6dd6-4c4c-b73a-a89ebbe64c4c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3010.1351516779.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b84c9cd0-cd89-42c4-8c3d-24a8bef56830@googlegroups.com>

That's very kind of you but I don't think it would be particularly fitted to my needs. The program I'm trying to code creates an image as an 2D array of "pixels" which is defined by RGBA value. My program needs to access and modifies every component of every pixels in the image following a set of rules, kind of like the game of life, only more complex.

In fact I only need a library to "push" this array of pixels in a displayable format for the GUI and in PNG format to write the image to disk. I don't need to do any fancy stuff with the image, just being able to display and write it.


From icgwh at tagyourself.com  Mon Oct 29 09:39:03 2012
From: icgwh at tagyourself.com (icgwh at tagyourself.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 06:39:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: I need help installing pypng in Python 3.3
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3010.1351516779.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <c2254bc0-6dd6-4c4c-b73a-a89ebbe64c4c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3010.1351516779.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b84c9cd0-cd89-42c4-8c3d-24a8bef56830@googlegroups.com>

That's very kind of you but I don't think it would be particularly fitted to my needs. The program I'm trying to code creates an image as an 2D array of "pixels" which is defined by RGBA value. My program needs to access and modifies every component of every pixels in the image following a set of rules, kind of like the game of life, only more complex.

In fact I only need a library to "push" this array of pixels in a displayable format for the GUI and in PNG format to write the image to disk. I don't need to do any fancy stuff with the image, just being able to display and write it.


From roy at panix.com  Mon Oct 29 09:52:50 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:52:50 -0400
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3009.1351516065.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-F5462C.09525029102012@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.3009.1351516065.27098.python-list at python.org>,
 Andrew Robinson <andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com> wrote:

> Show me an example where someone would write a slice with a negative and 
> a positive index (both in the same slice);
> and have that slice grab a contiguous slice in the *middle* of the list 
> with orientation of lower index to greater index.

It's possible in bioinformatics.  Many organisms have circular 
chromosomes.  It's a single DNA molecule spliced into a loop.  There's 
an "origin", but it's more a convenience thing for people to assign some 
particular base-pair to be location 0.  From the organism's point of 
view, the origin isn't anything special (but there *is* a fixed 
orientation).

It's entirely plausible for somebody to want to extract the sub-sequence 
from 100 bp (base-pairs) before the origin to 100 bp after the origin.  
If you were storing the sequence in Python string (or list), the most 
convenient way to express this would be seq[-100:100].  Likewise, if you 
wanted the *other* fragment, you would write seq[100:-100].

There is a minor confounding factor here in that biologists number 
sequences starting with 1, not 0.  At least that was the way when I was 
doing this stuff mumble years ago.  I don't know what the current 
convention is.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 09:53:13 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 00:53:13 +1100
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo3uK0Hfu4h78AkM6BPXXuU9sMuc74QeKFrW4jp54MGMg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 5:01 PM, Andrew Robinson
<andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com> wrote:
>  Looking at some of the online programming notes -- a slice apparently
> doesn't use an integer storage variable that is capable of arbitrary
> expansion. =-O -- and hence, won't work for very large sized lists.  That
> actually explains some crashes I have noted in the past when working with 20
> million element lists that I wanted a slice of.  I had *plenty* of ram on
> that system.

Can you provide links to these notes? I'm looking at
cpython/Include/sliceobject.h that has this comment:

/*

A slice object containing start, stop, and step data members (the
names are from range).  After much talk with Guido, it was decided to
let these be any arbitrary python type.  Py_None stands for omitted values.
*/

Also, the code for slice objects in CPython works with Py_ssize_t (a
signed quantity of the same length as size_t), which will allow at
least 2**31 for an index. I would guess that your crashes were nothing
to do with 20 million elements and slices.

ChrisA


From mauriceling at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 10:01:05 2012
From: mauriceling at gmail.com (mauriceling@acm.org)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 07:01:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ANN] 2 new articles in The Python Papers
Message-ID: <09268803-d4b4-45b0-a637-f8da9a5db3f0@googlegroups.com>

Hi all

I'm pleased to announce 2 newly published articles in The Python Papers (ojs.pythonpapers.org).

FUSE?ing Python for Development of Storage Efficient Filesystem
(http://ojs.pythonpapers.org/index.php/tpp/article/view/244)

Abstract: Filesystem is a core component of a functional operating system. Traditional Filesystem development has been confined to the kernel space. A customized, purpose-built, and user-driven Filesystem development involves extensive knowledge of kernel internals, tools and processes. Alternatively, user-space Filesystems are preferred over the kernel space Filesystem, for ease of development, portability and developing prototypes Filesystems, particularly for intuitive abstraction of ?non-file? objects.

This paper proposes usage of FUSE kernel module to develop a functional Filesystem in user-space, titled ?seFS?. Apart from offering convenience of user-space development, FUSE allows on-par features and functionality of a kernel space Filesystem. We demonstrate development of a Filesystem in Python on Ubuntu 11.04 system with Python-Fuse bindings.

seFS Filesystem abstracts a SQLite database to store files data and metadata. By developing a Filesystem with Python-FUSE, we quickly solved the problem of efficient data management with online de-duplication and data compression. We discuss the internals of FUSE, its operation and implementation in this paper.


An Artificial Life Simulation Library Based on Genetic Algorithm, 3-Character Genetic Code and Biological Hierarchy
(http://ojs.pythonpapers.org/index.php/tpp/article/view/245)

Abstract: Genetic algorithm (GA) is inspired by biological evolution of genetic organisms by optimizing the genotypic combinations encoded within each individual with the help of evolutionary operators, suggesting that GA may be a suitable model for studying real-life evolutionary processes. This paper describes the design of a Python library for artificial life simulation, Digital Organism Simulation Environment (DOSE), based on GA and biological hierarchy starting from genetic sequence to population. A 3-character instruction set that does not take any operand is introduced as genetic code for digital organism. This mimics the 3-nucleotide codon structure in naturally occurring DNA. In addition, the context of a 3-dimensional world composing of ecological cells is introduced to simulate a physical ecosystem. Using DOSE, an experiment to examine the changes in genetic sequences with respect to mutation rates is presented.

Maurice Ling
Co-EIC, The Python Papers


From andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com  Mon Oct 29 10:48:09 2012
From: andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com (Andrew Robinson)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 07:48:09 -0700
Subject: I need help installing pypng in Python 3.3
In-Reply-To: <b84c9cd0-cd89-42c4-8c3d-24a8bef56830@googlegroups.com>
References: <c2254bc0-6dd6-4c4c-b73a-a89ebbe64c4c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3010.1351516779.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<b84c9cd0-cd89-42c4-8c3d-24a8bef56830@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <508E9729.6020209@r3dsolutions.com>

On 10/29/2012 06:39 AM, icgwh at tagyourself.com wrote:
> That's very kind of you but I don't think it would be particularly fitted to my needs. The program I'm trying to code creates an image as an 2D array of "pixels" which is defined by RGBA value. My program needs to access and modifies every component of every pixels in the image following a set of rules, kind of like the game of life, only more complex.
>
> In fact I only need a library to "push" this array of pixels in a displayable format for the GUI and in PNG format to write the image to disk. I don't need to do any fancy stuff with the image, just being able to display and write it.
>
>
Then, actually, what I am suggesting was *almost* perfect.
To do transparency, you need to write the portable any map (PAM) formation.

Simply print a text header to a file which says:

P7
WIDTH 10
HEIGHT 10
DEPTH 4
MAXVAL 255
TUPLTYPE RGB_ALPHA
ENDHDR

And then dump your 2D array to that same file.
A very quick example in 17 lines of code:

io = open( "anyname.pam","w")
x,y = 10,10
gray=(128,128,128,255) # R,G,B,A value
picture = [ [ gray ] * x ] * y # Make a blank gray canvas 2D array

# Do whatever you want to the 2D picture array here!

io.write( "P7\nWIDTH %d\nHEIGHT %d\nDEPTH 4\nMAXVAL 255\nTUPLTYPE 
RGB_ALPHA\nENDHDR\n" % (x,y) )

for yi in xrange( y ):
     for xi in xrange( x ):
         pixel = picture[yi][xi]
         io.write( chr(pixel[0]) ) # R value
         io.write( chr(pixel[1]) ) # G value
         io.write( chr(pixel[2]) ) # B value
         io.write( chr(pixel[3]) ) # A value
     io.flush()

io.close()

And that's it.  You may of course make this more efficient -- I'm just 
showing it this way for clarity.
Many programs can read PAM directly; but for those that can't you can 
use nettools, or imagemagick, to convert it to PNG.



From drobinow at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 11:08:10 2012
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 11:08:10 -0400
Subject: I need help installing pypng in Python 3.3
In-Reply-To: <c2254bc0-6dd6-4c4c-b73a-a89ebbe64c4c@googlegroups.com>
References: <c2254bc0-6dd6-4c4c-b73a-a89ebbe64c4c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAF3XjbzX4-QdhEnnqrzOKien3FD6Q-L_Q9ixEqO_qDN+wPfWXQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 8:23 AM,  <icgwh at tagyourself.com> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I am very new to python. I am currently porting a little project of mine from java to python and I need to be able to construct and write png images. I naturally turned myself toward pypng to accomplish this.
>
> I learned from the net that pypng 0.0.13 is supposed to work in Python 3.x when run through '2to3'. However, in my case, it apparently does not.
>
You haven't shown that.
> I ran into various problems when trying to install it, some of them I could fix myself. First I attempted to install pip but I couldn't get Windows to recognize pip as an internal command as the prompt informs me.
 No, it's not an internal command, but you don't need that. I'm
assuming your python is installed under C:\Python33. If not, adjust as
needed.  Try:
 C:\Python33\Scripts\pip install pypng

[You didn't say what you did to install pip so I don't know if pip.exe
actually exists in C:\Python33\Scripts]

> Then I tried to directly run "setup.py install" from the pypng folder. It didn't work as I got a syntax error. I noticed that in the beginning of the installation process, the following warning was displayed: "conf[use_2to3 = true] unrecognized configuration option"

 The following works for me:
C:\Python33\python setup.py install

>
> At that point I was already pretty pissed but I managed to make the warning disappear by updating (installing?) distribute. After that there are no more errors during the installation process and everything seems to work fine. (This seems still strange to me as 2to3 was present in Tools/Script out of the box)

It's not clear what you did here. setup.py should run 2to3 for you.
What command did you use to successfully? install it?

> I use pydev in Eclipse and pydev reports several error in png.py anytime I want to import or use it. When trying to import from IDLE I get:
>
> except ValueError, e:
>                  ^
> Syntax error, line 1863
 It's clear that the install process didn't run 2to3.

> that paricular error I was able to fix by changing it to "except ValueError as e:" but I don't understand why 2to3 didn't do it automatically.
 2to3 does do it automatically.
> There are several more errors reported by pydev, here are a few:
>
> line 1368 : "raise ValueError('Chunk %s too short for checksum.', tag)"
>             Undefined variable: tag

Looking at the code, this appears to be a bug.
>
> line 2736 : "rows = [map(numpy.uint16, range(0,0x10000,0x5555))]"
>             Undefined variable from import: uint16
>
> The second one made me suspect I needed to install numpy too. As there are no installers for numpy aimed toward Python3.3.
 A few lines above there's a try/except for importing numpy. It should
skip this test if numpy is not available. I'm not sure how you were
able to execute that line [unless you've got a stray numpy.py  file
somewhere somewhere]

> I decided to install Python2.7 and retry the whole process. Unfortunately I didn't get much more success. I get the exact same errors in pydev when using the 2.7 version of the interpreter and I cannot install numpy either because when I run the .exe file aimed toward Python 2.7 i get the error message:
>
> "Python version 2.7 required, which was not found in the registry"
>
> I then have the option to manually enter the path to Python 2.7 but the textform is greyed out and I can't type in anything.
>

Do you have the file c:\Python33\Lib\site-packages\pypng-0.0.13-py3.3.egg  ?
If not, you have not successfully installed pypng. Please try one of
the methods I gave above.


From drobinow at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 11:18:38 2012
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 11:18:38 -0400
Subject: SSH Connection with Python
In-Reply-To: <k6k3dd$e87$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <k6gje2$cpn$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<20121028003523.GA26034@cskk.homeip.net>
	<k6k3dd$e87$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAF3XjbyQF5kmY_LrjxEyeYHdqUJt=m8z5-nt1OgTDnGe7nhd3Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:
> The only thing I'm concerned about paramiko is, that I don't see any
> activity on the paramiko site and that one library it depends on is not
> available is windows binary package for newer versions of python.
>
 I don't understand why this is a problem.
\python27\python setup.py install     #for pycrypto & paramiko
\python27\python test.py   # for paramiko

Works for me.  Of course, you need  Visual C++ 2008, but the free
express edition is sufficient, and you should have that anyway if
you're doing Windows development. If that's too hard for you, try
http://www.serenethinking.com/bitlift/download.html
[not my site, no guarantees]


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 11:20:02 2012
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (andrea crotti)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 15:20:02 +0000
Subject: Immutability and Python
Message-ID: <CAF_E5JZVij+DTNNH=kMHVa1+GM6g80MpQBY1N4wc-a46bmGLsw@mail.gmail.com>

I have a philosofical doubt about immutability, that arised while doing
the SCALA functional programming course.

Now suppose I have a simple NumWrapper class, that very stupidly does:

class NumWrapper(object):
    def __init__(self, number):
        self.number = number

and we want to change its state incrementing the number, normally I
would do this

    def increment(self):
        self.number += 1


But the immutability purists would instead suggest to do this:

    def increment(self):
        return NumWrapper(self.number + 1)


Now on one hand I would love to use only immutable data in my code, but
on the other hand I wonder if it makes so much sense in Python.

My impression is that things get more clumsy in the immutable form, for
example in the mutable form I would do simply this:

number = NumWrapper(1)
number.increment()

while with immutability I have to do this instead:
new_number = number.increment()

But more importantly normally classes are way more complicated than my
stupid example, so recreating a new object with the modified state might
be quite complex.

Any comments about this? What do you prefer and why?


From andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com  Mon Oct 29 11:20:26 2012
From: andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com (Andrew Robinson)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 08:20:26 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <roy-F5462C.09525029102012@news.panix.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3009.1351516065.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-F5462C.09525029102012@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <508E9EBA.2070307@r3dsolutions.com>

On 10/29/2012 06:52 AM, Roy Smith wrote:
> Show me an example where someone would write a slice with a negative and
> a positive index (both in the same slice);
> and have that slice grab a contiguous slice in the *middle* of the list
> with orientation of lower index to greater index.
> It's possible in bioinformatics. ...
> eq[100:-100].
I decided to go to bed... I was starting to write very badly worded 
responses. :)

Thanks, Roy,  what you have just shown is another example that agrees 
with what I am trying to do.
FYI: I was asking for a reason why Python's present implementation is 
desirable...

I wonder, for example:

Given an arbitrary list:
a=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12]

Why would someone *want* to do:
a[-7,10]
Instead of saying
a[5:10] or a[-7:-2] ?

eg:
What algorithm would naturally *desire* the default behavior of slicing 
when using *mixed* negative and positive indexes?
In the case of a bacterial circular DNA/RNA ring, asking for codons[ 
-10: 10 ]  would logically desire codon[-10:] + codon[:10] not an empty 
list, right?

I think your example is a very reasonable thing the scientific community 
would want to do with Python.
:)



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Oct 29 11:38:59 2012
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 16:38:59 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Immutability and Python
In-Reply-To: <CAF_E5JZVij+DTNNH=kMHVa1+GM6g80MpQBY1N4wc-a46bmGLsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <771101937.3475467.1351525139677.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>



----- Original Message -----
> I have a philosofical doubt about immutability, that arised while
> doing
> the SCALA functional programming course.
> 
> Now suppose I have a simple NumWrapper class, that very stupidly
> does:
> 
> class NumWrapper(object):
>     def __init__(self, number):
>         self.number = number
> 
> and we want to change its state incrementing the number, normally I
> would do this
> 
>     def increment(self):
>         self.number += 1
> 
> 
> But the immutability purists would instead suggest to do this:
> 
>     def increment(self):
>         return NumWrapper(self.number + 1)
> 
> 
> Now on one hand I would love to use only immutable data in my code,
> but
> on the other hand I wonder if it makes so much sense in Python.
> 
> My impression is that things get more clumsy in the immutable form,
> for
> example in the mutable form I would do simply this:
> 
> number = NumWrapper(1)
> number.increment()
> 
> while with immutability I have to do this instead:
> new_number = number.increment()
> 
> But more importantly normally classes are way more complicated than
> my
> stupid example, so recreating a new object with the modified state
> might
> be quite complex.
> 
> Any comments about this? What do you prefer and why?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 

"return NumWrapper(self.number + 1) "

still returns a(nother) mutable object.

So what's the point of all this ?

JM


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From andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com  Mon Oct 29 11:42:39 2012
From: andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com (Andrew Robinson)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 08:42:39 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid=rhea2aMXM_St2FwTiAx+cnZ20_H6RtwW0_81uSQAFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzid=rhea2aMXM_St2FwTiAx+cnZ20_H6RtwW0_81uSQAFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508EA3EF.5080504@r3dsolutions.com>

On 10/29/2012 10:09 AM, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Oct 29, 2012 7:10 AM, "Andrew Robinson"<andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com>  wrote:
>> I will be porting Python 3.xx to a super low power embedded processor (MSP430), both space and speed are at a premium.
>> Running Python on top of Java would be a *SERIOUS* mistake.  .NET won't even run on this system. etc.
> If that's the case, then running Python at all is probably a mistake.
> You know the interpreter alone has an overhead of nearly 6 MB?
There's already a version of the python interpreter which fits in under 
100K:
http://code.google.com/p/python-on-a-chip/
It's not the 3.x series, though; and I don't want to redo this once 2.7 
really does become obsolete.
>> Yes, I realize that.
>> But, why can't I just overload the existing __getitem__ for lists and not bother writing an entire class?
> You can just overload that one method in a subclass of list.  Being
> able to monkey-patch __getitem__ for the list class itself would not
> be advisable, as it would affect all list slicing anywhere in your
> program and possibly lead to some unexpected behaviors.
That's what I am curious about.
What unexpected behaviors would a "monkey patch" typically cause?
If no one really uses negative and positive indexes in the same slice 
operation, because there is no reason to do so...
It will only break the occasional esoteric application.

>
> 20 million is nothing.  On a 32-bit system, sys.maxsize == 2 ** 31 -
> 1.  If the error you were seeing was MemoryError, then more likely you
> were running into dynamic allocation issues due to fragmentation of
> virtual memory.
>
>

No, there was no error at all.  Pthon just crashed & exited; not even an 
exception that I can recall.   It was if it exited normally!

The list was generated in a single pass by many .append() 's, and then 
copied once -- the original was left in place; and then I attempted to 
slice it.

I am able to routinely to 5 million length lists, copy, slice, cut, 
append, and delete from them without this ever happening.
If fragmentation were the issue, I'd think the shorter lists would cause 
the problem after many manipulations...

It may not be a bug in python itself, though, of course.  There are 
libraries it uses which might have a bug.



From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 11:44:31 2012
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (andrea crotti)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 15:44:31 +0000
Subject: Immutability and Python
In-Reply-To: <771101937.3475467.1351525139677.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
References: <CAF_E5JZVij+DTNNH=kMHVa1+GM6g80MpQBY1N4wc-a46bmGLsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<771101937.3475467.1351525139677.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <CAF_E5Jbf0KJjDLV0jS-p_J9E4D8=_sPScgE+vkmkN2sMw=3aoA@mail.gmail.com>

2012/10/29 Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com>:
>
> "return NumWrapper(self.number + 1) "
>
> still returns a(nother) mutable object.
>
> So what's the point of all this ?
>
> JM
>

Well sure but it doesn't modify the first object, just creates a new
one.  There are in general good reasons to do that, for example I can
then compose things nicely:

num.increment().increment()

or I can parallelize operations safely not caring about the order of
operations.

But while I do this all the time with more functional languages, I
don't tend to do exactly the same in Python, because I have the
impression that is not worth, but maybe I'm wrong..


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 11:48:09 2012
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (andrea crotti)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 15:48:09 +0000
Subject: Immutability and Python
In-Reply-To: <CAF_E5Jbf0KJjDLV0jS-p_J9E4D8=_sPScgE+vkmkN2sMw=3aoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF_E5JZVij+DTNNH=kMHVa1+GM6g80MpQBY1N4wc-a46bmGLsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<771101937.3475467.1351525139677.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<CAF_E5Jbf0KJjDLV0jS-p_J9E4D8=_sPScgE+vkmkN2sMw=3aoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF_E5Jao10GiX3m35gOmzJg=sL0jER0MWGZGJyjNaduoWi80rg@mail.gmail.com>

2012/10/29 andrea crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com>:
>>
>
> Well sure but it doesn't modify the first object, just creates a new
> one.  There are in general good reasons to do that, for example I can
> then compose things nicely:
>
> num.increment().increment()
>
> or I can parallelize operations safely not caring about the order of
> operations.
>
> But while I do this all the time with more functional languages, I
> don't tend to do exactly the same in Python, because I have the
> impression that is not worth, but maybe I'm wrong..


By the way on this topic there is a great talk by the creator of
Clojure: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Value-Values


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Oct 29 11:55:14 2012
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 08:55:14 -0700
Subject: Immutability and Python
References: <mailman.3018.1351524004.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xsj8xl1ct.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

andrea crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> writes:
> and we want to change its state incrementing the number ...
>  the immutability purists would instead suggest to do this:
>     def increment(self):
>         return NumWrapper(self.number + 1)

Immutability purists would say that numbers don't have "state" and if
you're trying to change a number's state by incrementing it, that's not
immutability.  You end up with a rather different programming style than
imperative programming, for example using tail recursion (maybe wrapped
in an itertools-like higher-order function) instead of indexed loops to
iterate over a structure.




From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Oct 29 11:55:29 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 15:55:29 +0000
Subject: Immutability and Python
In-Reply-To: <CAF_E5JZVij+DTNNH=kMHVa1+GM6g80MpQBY1N4wc-a46bmGLsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF_E5JZVij+DTNNH=kMHVa1+GM6g80MpQBY1N4wc-a46bmGLsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k6m8oa$bjr$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 29/10/2012 15:20, andrea crotti wrote:
> I have a philosofical doubt about immutability, that arised while doing
> the SCALA functional programming course.
>
> Now suppose I have a simple NumWrapper class, that very stupidly does:
>
> class NumWrapper(object):
>      def __init__(self, number):
>          self.number = number
>
> and we want to change its state incrementing the number, normally I
> would do this
>
>      def increment(self):
>          self.number += 1
>
>
> But the immutability purists would instead suggest to do this:
>
>      def increment(self):
>          return NumWrapper(self.number + 1)
>
>
> Now on one hand I would love to use only immutable data in my code, but
> on the other hand I wonder if it makes so much sense in Python.
>
> My impression is that things get more clumsy in the immutable form, for
> example in the mutable form I would do simply this:
>
> number = NumWrapper(1)
> number.increment()
>
> while with immutability I have to do this instead:
> new_number = number.increment()
>
> But more importantly normally classes are way more complicated than my
> stupid example, so recreating a new object with the modified state might
> be quite complex.
>
> Any comments about this? What do you prefer and why?
>

I prefer practicality beats purity.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Oct 29 12:00:31 2012
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:00:31 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Immutability and Python
In-Reply-To: <CAF_E5Jbf0KJjDLV0jS-p_J9E4D8=_sPScgE+vkmkN2sMw=3aoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1793477354.3492917.1351526431192.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>



----- Original Message -----
> 2012/10/29 Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com>:
> >
> > "return NumWrapper(self.number + 1) "
> >
> > still returns a(nother) mutable object.
> >
> > So what's the point of all this ?
> >
> > JM
> >
> 
> Well sure but it doesn't modify the first object, just creates a new
> one.  There are in general good reasons to do that, for example I can
> then compose things nicely:
> 
> num.increment().increment()
> 
> or I can parallelize operations safely not caring about the order of
> operations.
> 
> But while I do this all the time with more functional languages, I
> don't tend to do exactly the same in Python, because I have the
> impression that is not worth, but maybe I'm wrong..
> 

In an OOP language num.increment() is expected to modify the object in place.
So I think you're right when you say that functional languages technics do not necessarily apply to Python, because they don't.

I would add that what you're trying to suggest in the first post was not really about immutability, immutable objects in python are ... well immutable, they can be used as a dict key for instance, your NumWrapper object cannot.


JM



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From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 12:08:31 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 03:08:31 +1100
Subject: Immutability and Python
In-Reply-To: <7xsj8xl1ct.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.3018.1351524004.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7xsj8xl1ct.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmry6FX_xBwrABjEEDF1N0V=OiAc0qXBSzViwHLA_+jB3g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 2:55 AM, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> andrea crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> writes:
>> and we want to change its state incrementing the number ...
>>  the immutability purists would instead suggest to do this:
>>     def increment(self):
>>         return NumWrapper(self.number + 1)
>
> Immutability purists would say that numbers don't have "state" and if
> you're trying to change a number's state by incrementing it, that's not
> immutability.  You end up with a rather different programming style than
> imperative programming, for example using tail recursion (maybe wrapped
> in an itertools-like higher-order function) instead of indexed loops to
> iterate over a structure.

In that case, rename increment to next_integer and TYAOOYDAO. [1]
You're not changing the state of this number, you're locating the
number which has a particular relationship to this one (in the same
way that GUI systems generally let you locate the next and previous
siblings of any given object).

ChrisA
[1] "there you are, out of your difficulty at once" - cf WS Gilbert's "Iolanthe"


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 12:12:29 2012
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (andrea crotti)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 16:12:29 +0000
Subject: Immutability and Python
In-Reply-To: <1793477354.3492917.1351526431192.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
References: <CAF_E5Jbf0KJjDLV0jS-p_J9E4D8=_sPScgE+vkmkN2sMw=3aoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1793477354.3492917.1351526431192.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <CAF_E5JYRWxChJMHZc62d74Xnw88S2FhcXqot2V0hPuxfgbzbuw@mail.gmail.com>

2012/10/29 Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com>:
>
>
> In an OOP language num.increment() is expected to modify the object in place.
> So I think you're right when you say that functional languages technics do not necessarily apply to Python, because they don't.
>
> I would add that what you're trying to suggest in the first post was not really about immutability, immutable objects in python are ... well immutable, they can be used as a dict key for instance, your NumWrapper object cannot.
>
>
> JM

Yes right immutable was not the right word, I meant that as a contract
with myself I'm never going to modify its state.

Also because how doi I make an immutable object in pure Python?

But the example with the dictionary is not correct though, because this:

In [145]: class C(object):
   .....:     def __hash__(self):
   .....:         return 42
   .....:

In [146]: d = {C(): 1}

works perfectly, but an object of class C can mutate as much as it
wants, as my NumWrapper instance..


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 12:33:03 2012
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (andrea crotti)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 16:33:03 +0000
Subject: Immutability and Python
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmry6FX_xBwrABjEEDF1N0V=OiAc0qXBSzViwHLA_+jB3g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.3018.1351524004.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7xsj8xl1ct.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<CAPTjJmry6FX_xBwrABjEEDF1N0V=OiAc0qXBSzViwHLA_+jB3g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF_E5JaKAf_NfWs-J58kVwzFhE27e9KP-Xg1Ne42o_Mq8=9tHg@mail.gmail.com>

2012/10/29 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 2:55 AM, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> andrea crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> writes:
>>> and we want to change its state incrementing the number ...
>>>  the immutability purists would instead suggest to do this:
>>>     def increment(self):
>>>         return NumWrapper(self.number + 1)
>>
>> Immutability purists would say that numbers don't have "state" and if
>> you're trying to change a number's state by incrementing it, that's not
>> immutability.  You end up with a rather different programming style than
>> imperative programming, for example using tail recursion (maybe wrapped
>> in an itertools-like higher-order function) instead of indexed loops to
>> iterate over a structure.
>
> In that case, rename increment to next_integer and TYAOOYDAO. [1]
> You're not changing the state of this number, you're locating the
> number which has a particular relationship to this one (in the same
> way that GUI systems generally let you locate the next and previous
> siblings of any given object).
>
> ChrisA
> [1] "there you are, out of your difficulty at once" - cf WS Gilbert's "Iolanthe"
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Yes the name should be changed, but the point is that they are both
ways to implement the same thing.

For example suppose I want to have 10 objects (for some silly reason)
that represent the next number, in the first case I would do:

numbers = [NumWrapper(orig.number)] * 10
for num in numbers:
    num.increment()

while in the second is as simple as:
numbers = [orig.next_number()] * 10

composing things become much easier, but as a downside it's not always
so easy and convienient to write code in this way, it probably depends
on the use case..


From dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de  Mon Oct 29 12:33:24 2012
From: dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de (Johannes Bauer)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:33:24 +0100
Subject: Nice solution wanted: Hide internal interfaces
Message-ID: <k6mb4k$5v3$1@news.albasani.net>

Hi there,

I'm currently looking for a good solution to the following problem: I
have two classes A and B, which interact with each other and which
interact with the user. Instances of B are always created by A.

Now I want A to call some private methods of B and vice versa (i.e. what
C++ "friends" are), but I want to make it hard for the user to call
these private methods.

Currently my ugly approach is this: I delare the internal methods
private (hide from user). Then I have a function which gives me a
dictionary of callbacks to the private functions of the other objects.
This is in my opinion pretty ugly (but it works and does what I want).

I'm pretty damn sure there's a nicer (prettier) solution out there, but
I can't currently think of it. Do you have any hints?

Best regards,
Joe


-- 
>> Wo hattest Du das Beben nochmal GENAU vorhergesagt?
> Zumindest nicht ?ffentlich!
Ah, der neueste und bis heute genialste Streich unsere gro?en
Kosmologen: Die Geheim-Vorhersage.
 - Karl Kaos ?ber R?diger Thomas in dsa <hidbv3$om2$1 at speranza.aioe.org>


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Mon Oct 29 12:39:56 2012
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:39:56 -0700
Subject: Numpy module
In-Reply-To: <5a86d3fc-1dff-4119-bda9-aa6e631758d5@googlegroups.com>
References: <5a86d3fc-1dff-4119-bda9-aa6e631758d5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAMuTYXijMwiwk30a5tAwDmQ=LX_1qjpoE=3X26r=d0fbJeD7Bw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 10:40 PM,  <farrellpolymath at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello to the group!
>
> I've learned a lot about Ubuntu just trying to install numpy for Python 3.2.3. I've finally managed to put it in the Python3.2 directory but when I try to import it, I still get there's "no module named numpy." There are other modules in the same directory, like 'email' and it imports fine.
>
> Does Numpy 1.6.2 not run with Python 3.2.3?
>
> Can anybody help? Thank you in advance.
>
> Peter Farrell
> --

Numpy is written in C. You can't just drop the source code into a
folder. It has to be compiled against that version of Python. You
could do that yourself, or you could just run "sudo apt-get install
python3-numpy"


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Mon Oct 29 12:41:56 2012
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:41:56 -0700
Subject: Nice solution wanted: Hide internal interfaces
In-Reply-To: <k6mb4k$5v3$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <k6mb4k$5v3$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <CAMuTYXj=GHDodAWbvK=rhJnXJg+6cFPUr+riCoz5ERzppHQD+Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I'm currently looking for a good solution to the following problem: I
> have two classes A and B, which interact with each other and which
> interact with the user. Instances of B are always created by A.
>
> Now I want A to call some private methods of B and vice versa (i.e. what
> C++ "friends" are), but I want to make it hard for the user to call
> these private methods.
>
> Currently my ugly approach is this: I delare the internal methods
> private (hide from user). Then I have a function which gives me a
> dictionary of callbacks to the private functions of the other objects.
> This is in my opinion pretty ugly (but it works and does what I want).
>
> I'm pretty damn sure there's a nicer (prettier) solution out there, but
> I can't currently think of it. Do you have any hints?
>
> Best regards,
> Joe
>

What do you mean "declare the internal methods private"? Python
doesn't have this notion of restricted access. By convention, names
starting with a leading underscore are private, but it's not enforced
by the language.


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 12:41:57 2012
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (andrea crotti)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 16:41:57 +0000
Subject: Nice solution wanted: Hide internal interfaces
In-Reply-To: <k6mb4k$5v3$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <k6mb4k$5v3$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <CAF_E5JYYvYmYfOnORzQgWizpQx-G=q3Xbo0-wqLT2J8-qWAO8Q@mail.gmail.com>

2012/10/29 Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de>:
> Hi there,
>
> I'm currently looking for a good solution to the following problem: I
> have two classes A and B, which interact with each other and which
> interact with the user. Instances of B are always created by A.
>
> Now I want A to call some private methods of B and vice versa (i.e. what
> C++ "friends" are), but I want to make it hard for the user to call
> these private methods.
>
> Currently my ugly approach is this: I delare the internal methods
> private (hide from user). Then I have a function which gives me a
> dictionary of callbacks to the private functions of the other objects.
> This is in my opinion pretty ugly (but it works and does what I want).
>
> I'm pretty damn sure there's a nicer (prettier) solution out there, but
> I can't currently think of it. Do you have any hints?
>
> Best regards,
> Joe
>

And how are you declaring methods private?  Because there is no real
private attribute in Python, if you declare them with a starting "_"
they are still perfectly accessible..


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Oct 29 12:46:44 2012
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:46:44 -0700
Subject: Immutability and Python
References: <CAF_E5Jbf0KJjDLV0jS-p_J9E4D8=_sPScgE+vkmkN2sMw=3aoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1793477354.3492917.1351526431192.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<mailman.3025.1351527152.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x625t6xaj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

andrea crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> writes:
> Also because how doi I make an immutable object in pure Python?

Numbers in Python are already immutable.  What you're really looking for
is a programming style where you don't bind any variable more than once.

This gives rise to a programming style that Python can support to a
certain extent, but for which some other languages are designed from the
beginning.

You might look at http://learnyouahaskell.com (online book) if you want
to try the above approach.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 12:47:21 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 03:47:21 +1100
Subject: Nice solution wanted: Hide internal interfaces
In-Reply-To: <k6mb4k$5v3$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <k6mb4k$5v3$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmob0eE74B2kLcsfs95GByriAgTFFKjLuDYjRaoLe-Q2NA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 3:33 AM, Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I'm currently looking for a good solution to the following problem: I
> have two classes A and B, which interact with each other and which
> interact with the user. Instances of B are always created by A.
>
> Now I want A to call some private methods of B and vice versa (i.e. what
> C++ "friends" are), but I want to make it hard for the user to call
> these private methods.

The usual convention for private methods is a leading underscore on the name:

class A:
	def foo(self):
		print("Fooing!")
	def _bar(self):
		print("Only my friends may bar me.")

It's only a convention, though; it doesn't make it "hard" to call
them, it just sends the message "this is private, I don't promise that
it'll be stable across versions".

Incidentally, you may want to use a nested class, if the definition of
B is entirely dependent on A. Something like this:

class A:
	class B:
		def _asdf(self,newval=None):
			if newval is not None: self._val=newval
			return self._val
		def _qwer(self,parent):
			parent._bar("My value is: "+self._val)
	def foo(self):
		self.b=self.B()
		self.b._asdf("Hello, world!")
		self.b._qwer(self)
	def _bar(self,msg):
		print("Message from internal: "+msg)

ChrisA


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Oct 29 12:52:24 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 16:52:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Nice solution wanted: Hide internal interfaces
References: <k6mb4k$5v3$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <k6mc88$qbu$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-29, Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de> wrote:

> I'm currently looking for a good solution to the following problem: I
> have two classes A and B, which interact with each other and which
> interact with the user. Instances of B are always created by A.
>
> Now I want A to call some private methods of B and vice versa (i.e.
> what C++ "friends" are), but I want to make it hard for the user to
> call these private methods.

The Python way of telling a user not to call certain methods is to
prefix their names with an underscore.  The double-underscore thing
that munges the names is just telling that a bit louder -- but they're
still free to ignore that advice.

> Currently my ugly approach is this: I delare the internal methods
> private (hide from user). Then I have a function which gives me a
> dictionary of callbacks to the private functions of the other
> objects. This is in my opinion pretty ugly (but it works and does
> what I want).

By "decleare them privide" do you mean using __ASDF__ name-munging?

It sounds to me like you're just making life hard on yourself.

> I'm pretty damn sure there's a nicer (prettier) solution out there,
> but I can't currently think of it. Do you have any hints?

IMO, the "right" thing to do in Python is to use single underscore
names for methods that you intend to be called by "friend" modules (is
that correct C++ lingo?) but don't intend to be called by the
end-user.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I just had a NOSE
                                  at               JOB!!
                              gmail.com            


From dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de  Mon Oct 29 12:58:30 2012
From: dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de (Johannes Bauer)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:58:30 +0100
Subject: Nice solution wanted: Hide internal interfaces
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3030.1351529244.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <k6mb4k$5v3$1@news.albasani.net>
	<mailman.3030.1351529244.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k6mcjm$99m$1@news.albasani.net>

On 29.10.2012 17:47, Chris Angelico wrote:

> The usual convention for private methods is a leading underscore on the name:

Yup, that's what I'm using.

> It's only a convention, though; it doesn't make it "hard" to call
> them, it just sends the message "this is private, I don't promise that
> it'll be stable across versions".

Yes, I know. But it's good enough. I don't want to restrict the use
under all circumstances, just make it clear to the user what she is
supposed to use and what not.

> Incidentally, you may want to use a nested class, if the definition of
> B is entirely dependent on A. Something like this:

Ah, that's nice. I didn't know that nested classes could access their
private members naturally (i.e. without using any magic, just with plain
old attribute access).

This makes the source files largish however (they're currently split up
in different files). Can I use the nested class advantage and somehow
include the inner class from another file?

Best regards,
Joe

-- 
>> Wo hattest Du das Beben nochmal GENAU vorhergesagt?
> Zumindest nicht ?ffentlich!
Ah, der neueste und bis heute genialste Streich unsere gro?en
Kosmologen: Die Geheim-Vorhersage.
 - Karl Kaos ?ber R?diger Thomas in dsa <hidbv3$om2$1 at speranza.aioe.org>


From dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de  Mon Oct 29 13:01:27 2012
From: dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de (Johannes Bauer)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 18:01:27 +0100
Subject: Nice solution wanted: Hide internal interfaces
In-Reply-To: <k6mc88$qbu$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <k6mb4k$5v3$1@news.albasani.net> <k6mc88$qbu$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <k6mcp7$9ub$1@news.albasani.net>

On 29.10.2012 17:52, Grant Edwards wrote:

> By "decleare them privide" do you mean using __ASDF__ name-munging?
> 
> It sounds to me like you're just making life hard on yourself.

Gaaaaaah, you are right. I just noticed that using the single underscore
(as I do) does not restrict usage in any "non-natural" way. I was
actually mixing this up in my head with the __xyz__ name-munging.

Thank you very much for hitting my head with a brick. Much clearer now :-)

Best regards,
Johannes

-- 
>> Wo hattest Du das Beben nochmal GENAU vorhergesagt?
> Zumindest nicht ?ffentlich!
Ah, der neueste und bis heute genialste Streich unsere gro?en
Kosmologen: Die Geheim-Vorhersage.
 - Karl Kaos ?ber R?diger Thomas in dsa <hidbv3$om2$1 at speranza.aioe.org>


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Oct 29 13:03:49 2012
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 10:03:49 -0700
Subject: Nice solution wanted: Hide internal interfaces
References: <k6mb4k$5v3$1@news.albasani.net>
	<mailman.3030.1351529244.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6mcjm$99m$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <7xpq41w6q2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de> writes:
> This makes the source files largish however (they're currently split up
> in different files). Can I use the nested class advantage and somehow
> include the inner class from another file?

You could possibly duck-punch class A:

  import B

  class A:
    ...

  A.B = B.B

Disclaimer: I haven't tested the above and I'd consider it pretty ugly.


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 13:05:07 2012
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (andrea crotti)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:05:07 +0000
Subject: Immutability and Python
In-Reply-To: <7x625t6xaj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <CAF_E5Jbf0KJjDLV0jS-p_J9E4D8=_sPScgE+vkmkN2sMw=3aoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1793477354.3492917.1351526431192.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<mailman.3025.1351527152.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x625t6xaj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <CAF_E5Ja0TM80-HT9BU46GJOmVue3JZpijVGsC483NdCn4ngU_A@mail.gmail.com>

2012/10/29 Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid>:
> andrea crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> writes:
>> Also because how doi I make an immutable object in pure Python?
>
> Numbers in Python are already immutable.  What you're really looking for
> is a programming style where you don't bind any variable more than once.
>
> This gives rise to a programming style that Python can support to a
> certain extent, but for which some other languages are designed from the
> beginning.
>
> You might look at http://learnyouahaskell.com (online book) if you want
> to try the above approach.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


I meant how do I create new immutables classes myself, I guess that's
possible writing C extensions but I don't see in pure Python..

Anyway I know haskell already, and that's one of the reasons why I was
trying to evaluate if the same techniques could be useful in Python as
well..


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Oct 29 13:06:30 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 18:06:30 +0100
Subject: Nice solution wanted: Hide internal interfaces
References: <k6mb4k$5v3$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <k6md2e$m67$1@ger.gmane.org>

Johannes Bauer wrote:

> Now I want A to call some private methods of B and vice versa (i.e. what
> C++ "friends" are), but I want to make it hard for the user to call
> these private methods.
> 
> Currently my ugly approach is this: I delare the internal methods
> private (hide from user). Then I have a function which gives me a
> dictionary of callbacks to the private functions of the other objects.
> This is in my opinion pretty ugly (but it works and does what I want).
> 
> I'm pretty damn sure there's a nicer (prettier) solution out there, but
> I can't currently think of it. Do you have any hints?

Maybe you  can wrap A into a class that delegates to A:

>>> class A(object):
...     def __private(self): print "private A"
... 
>>> class Friend(object):
...     def __init__(self, obj):
...             self.__obj = obj
...             self.__prefix = "_%s_" % obj.__class__.__name__
...     def __getattr__(self, name):
...             return getattr(self.__obj, self.__prefix + name)
... 
>>> a = A()
>>> a._A__private() # hard
private A
>>> f = Friend(a)
>>> f._private() # easy
private A

The B instance would refer to A via the Friend instance.



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 13:09:01 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 11:09:01 -0600
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=rhea2aMXM_St2FwTiAx+cnZ20_H6RtwW0_81uSQAFBQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Oct 29, 2012 7:10 AM, "Andrew Robinson" <andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com> wrote:
> I will be porting Python 3.xx to a super low power embedded processor (MSP430), both space and speed are at a premium.
> Running Python on top of Java would be a *SERIOUS* mistake.  .NET won't even run on this system. etc.

If that's the case, then running Python at all is probably a mistake.
You know the interpreter alone has an overhead of nearly 6 MB?

> Yes, I realize that.
> But, why can't I just overload the existing __getitem__ for lists and not bother writing an entire class?

You can just overload that one method in a subclass of list.  Being
able to monkey-patch __getitem__ for the list class itself would not
be advisable, as it would affect all list slicing anywhere in your
program and possibly lead to some unexpected behaviors.

> Hmmm..
> Let's try your example exactly as shown...
>
> "hello world"[aslice]
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> NameError: name 'aslice' is not defined
>
> WOW. Cool.
> Where did the blanks *actually* get filled in?  Or HOW WILL they in your next post?

It appears that Steven omitted the definition of aslice by mistake.
It looks like it should have been:

aslice = slice(4, None, 2)

>  Looking at some of the online programming notes -- a slice apparently doesn't use an integer storage variable that is capable of arbitrary expansion. =-O -- and hence, won't work for very large sized lists.  That actually explains some crashes I have noted in the past when working with 20 million element lists that I wanted a slice of.  I had *plenty* of ram on that system.

20 million is nothing.  On a 32-bit system, sys.maxsize == 2 ** 31 -
1.  If the error you were seeing was MemoryError, then more likely you
were running into dynamic allocation issues due to fragmentation of
virtual memory.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Oct 29 13:15:57 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 13:15:57 -0400
Subject: OrderedDict / DIctComprehension
In-Reply-To: <b8a2f8fa-c53d-413b-b3df-5883d075a012@googlegroups.com>
References: <b8a2f8fa-c53d-413b-b3df-5883d075a012@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k6mdkn$rso$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/29/2012 8:36 AM, Christian wrote:
> Hi,
>
> is there a way building an OrderedDict faster?
>
> Thanks in advance
> Christian
>
> @timeit
> def ordered(n=100000):
>      d = OrderedDict()
>      for i in xrange(n):
>          d['key'+str(i)] = i
>      return d

try d = OrderedDict(['key'+str(i),i for i in xrange(n)])
In Py3, just range(n). Also
d = OrderedDict(('key'+str(i)) for i in range(n))
may be faster or slower.

>
> @timeit
> def comprehension(n=100000):
>      d = { 'key'+str(i):i for i in xrange(n) }
>      return d
>
>
> ordered()
> comprehension()
>
> 'ordered' ((), {}) 0.724609 sec
> 'comprehension' ((), {}) 0.098318 sec
>


-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Oct 29 13:17:56 2012
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 18:17:56 +0100
Subject: Nice solution wanted: Hide internal interfaces
References: <k6mb4k$5v3$1@news.albasani.net> <k6mc88$qbu$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<k6mcp7$9ub$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <k6mdnr$sqk$1@ger.gmane.org>

Johannes Bauer wrote:

> On 29.10.2012 17:52, Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
>> By "decleare them privide" do you mean using __ASDF__ name-munging?
>> 
>> It sounds to me like you're just making life hard on yourself.
> 
> Gaaaaaah, you are right. I just noticed that using the single underscore
> (as I do) does not restrict usage in any "non-natural" way. I was
> actually mixing this up in my head with the __xyz__ name-munging.

Name-munging occurs only if the method name starts but doesn't end with 
"__":

>>> class A(object): pass
... 
>>> class B(A):
...     __before = __between__ = __ = 42
... 
>>> set(dir(B)) - set(dir(A))
set(['__', '_B__before', '__between__'])




From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 13:27:47 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 11:27:47 -0600
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmq6NLRsBfUOwad5uz6FXGOmOnudJwNCfB6QkKtXnDDGQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:54 AM, Andrew <andrewr3mail at gmail.com> wrote:
> My intended inferences about the iterator vs. slice question was perhaps not obvious to you; Notice: an iterator is not *allowed* in __getitem__().

Yes, I misconstrued your question.  I thought you wanted to change the
behavior of slicing to wrap around the end when start > stop instead
of returning an empty sequence.  What you actually want is a new
sequence built from indexes supplied by an iterable.  Chris has
already given you a list comprehension solution to solve that.  You
could also use map for this:

new_seq = list(map(old_seq.__getitem__, iterable))

Since you seem to be concerned about performance, I'm not sure in this
case whether the map or the list comprehension will be faster.  I'll
leave you to test that on your intended hardware.

> In 'C', where Python is written, circularly linked lists -- and arrays are both very efficient ways of accessing data.  Arrays can, in fact, have negative indexes -- perhaps contrary to what you thought.  One merely defines a variable to act as the base pointer to the array and initialize it to the *end* of the array. Nor is the size of the data elements an issue, since in Python all classes are accessed by pointers which are of uniform size. I routinely do this in C.

I'm aware of what is possible in C with pointer arithmetic.  This is
Python, though, and Python by design has neither pointers nor pointer
arithmetic.  In any case, initializing the pointer to the end of the
array would still not do what you want, since the positive indices
would then extend past the end of the array.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Oct 29 13:48:23 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 13:48:23 -0400
Subject: Immutability and Python
In-Reply-To: <CAF_E5JZVij+DTNNH=kMHVa1+GM6g80MpQBY1N4wc-a46bmGLsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF_E5JZVij+DTNNH=kMHVa1+GM6g80MpQBY1N4wc-a46bmGLsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k6mfhi$edl$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/29/2012 11:20 AM, andrea crotti wrote:
> I have a philosofical doubt about immutability, that arised while doing
> the SCALA functional programming course.

In real life, the physical world, things have mutable state, at least 
down to the atomic level. Do you only want to model mathematical worlds, 
or also physical worlds.

Even mathematically, I do not think there necessarily a problem with 
mutable collections. The fact that sets are defined by content does not 
mean that everything has to be.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From driscoll at cs.wisc.edu  Mon Oct 29 13:58:58 2012
From: driscoll at cs.wisc.edu (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 12:58:58 -0500
Subject: Immutability and Python
In-Reply-To: <CAF_E5Ja0TM80-HT9BU46GJOmVue3JZpijVGsC483NdCn4ngU_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF_E5Jbf0KJjDLV0jS-p_J9E4D8=_sPScgE+vkmkN2sMw=3aoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1793477354.3492917.1351526431192.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<mailman.3025.1351527152.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x625t6xaj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<CAF_E5Ja0TM80-HT9BU46GJOmVue3JZpijVGsC483NdCn4ngU_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508EC3E2.4010105@cs.wisc.edu>

On 10/29/2012 12:05 PM, andrea crotti wrote:
> I meant how do I create new immutables classes myself, I guess that's
> possible writing C extensions but I don't see in pure Python..

The short answer is: you don't, not really, except by using NamedTuple
if that gives you what you want.

The longer answer:

You can kinda get it somewhat if you define your own
__getattribute__/__setattribute__ functions. __setattribute__ of course
should never do anything except raise an error (one way or another
you'll need to make an exception for your __init__ function of course).
__getattribute__ should make sure no mutable references are returned:
e.g. you'll probably want to make it so someone can't side-step your
setter by saying someobject.__dict__["foo"] = "bar". (I return a copy of
the dict.) It will still be possible to bypass these protections though.

To really get true immutability in pure Python, you'll have to inherit
from tuple or NamedTuple (which inherits from tuple, I think). You can
see some discussion on Stack Overflow and some other places about this;
having played around with this a bit, I think it's not worth the hassle
and have done the __getattribute__/__setattribute__ thing the couple of
times I wanted immutability.

Evan

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From andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com  Mon Oct 29 14:00:08 2012
From: andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com (Andrew Robinson)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 11:00:08 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmo3uK0Hfu4h78AkM6BPXXuU9sMuc74QeKFrW4jp54MGMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CAPTjJmo3uK0Hfu4h78AkM6BPXXuU9sMuc74QeKFrW4jp54MGMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508EC428.5080808@r3dsolutions.com>

On 10/29/2012 06:53 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Can you provide links to these notes? I'm looking at
> cpython/Include/sliceobject.h that has this comment:
>
> /*
>
> A slice object containing start, stop, and step data members (the
> names are from range).  After much talk with Guido, it was decided to
> let these be any arbitrary python type.  Py_None stands for omitted values.
> */
>
> Also, the code for slice objects in CPython works with Py_ssize_t (a
> signed quantity of the same length as size_t), which will allow at
> least 2**31 for an index. I would guess that your crashes were nothing
> to do with 20 million elements and slices.
>
> ChrisA
Let's look at the source code rather than the web notes -- the source 
must be the true answer anyhow.

I downloaded the source code for python 3.3.0, as the tbz;
In the directory "Python-3.3.0/Python", look at Python-ast.c, line 2089 
& ff.

Clearly a slice is malloced for a slice_ty type.
It has four elements: kind, lower, upper, and step.

So, tracing it back to the struct definition...

"Include/Python-ast.h"  has "typedef struct _slice *slice_ty;"

And, here's the answer!:

enum _slice_kind {Slice_kind=1, ExtSlice_kind=2, Index_kind=3};
struct _slice {
         enum _slice_kind kind;
         union {
                 struct {
                         expr_ty lower;
                         expr_ty upper;
                         expr_ty step;
                 } Slice;

                 struct {
                         asdl_seq *dims;
                 } ExtSlice;

                 struct {
                         expr_ty value;
                 } Index;

         } v;
};


So, slice() does indeed have arbitrary python types included in it; 
contrary to what I read elsewhere.
expr_ty is a pointer to an arbitrary expression, so the actual structure 
is 4 pointers, at 32 bits each = 16 bytes.
The size of the structure itself, given in an earlier post, is 20 bytes 
-- which means one more pointer is involved, perhaps the one pointing to 
the slice structure itself.

Hmm...!

An empty tuple gives sys.getsizeof( () ) = 24.

But, I would expect a tuple to be merely a list of object pointers; 
hence I would expect 4 bytes for len(), and then a head pointer 4 bytes, 
and then a pointer for each object.
3 objects gives 12 bytes, + 8 = 16 bytes.

Then we need one more pointer so Python knows where the struct is...
So a Tuple of 3 objects ought to fit nicely into 20 bytes; the same size 
as slice() --

but it's 24, even when empty...
And 36 when initialized...
What are the extra 16 bytes for?

All I see is:
typedef struct { object** whatever } PyTupleObject;









From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Oct 29 14:00:58 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 18:00:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Nice solution wanted: Hide internal interfaces
References: <k6mb4k$5v3$1@news.albasani.net>
	<mailman.3030.1351529244.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6mcjm$99m$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <k6mg8q$sen$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-10-29, Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de> wrote:
> On 29.10.2012 17:47, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> The usual convention for private methods is a leading underscore on the name:
>
> Yup, that's what I'm using.
>
>> It's only a convention, though; it doesn't make it "hard" to call
>> them, it just sends the message "this is private, I don't promise that
>> it'll be stable across versions".
>
> Yes, I know. But it's good enough. I don't want to restrict the use
> under all circumstances, just make it clear to the user what she is
> supposed to use and what not.

The single underscore indicates that the user is not to use the
method.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I am covered with
                                  at               pure vegetable oil and I am
                              gmail.com            writing a best seller!


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Oct 29 14:03:57 2012
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 14:03:57 -0400
Subject: Immutability and Python
In-Reply-To: <CAF_E5Ja0TM80-HT9BU46GJOmVue3JZpijVGsC483NdCn4ngU_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF_E5Jbf0KJjDLV0jS-p_J9E4D8=_sPScgE+vkmkN2sMw=3aoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1793477354.3492917.1351526431192.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<mailman.3025.1351527152.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x625t6xaj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<CAF_E5Ja0TM80-HT9BU46GJOmVue3JZpijVGsC483NdCn4ngU_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k6mgeo$mqe$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/29/2012 1:05 PM, andrea crotti wrote:

> I meant how do I create new immutables classes myself, I guess that's
> possible writing C extensions but I don't see in pure Python..

If you mean class with immutable instances, mutate new instances in 
__new__ instead of __init__ and write a custom .__setattr__ that 
prevents changes thereafter.

If you want the class itself to be immutable (after creation), write a 
custom metaclass.

You may also need to think about .__getattribute__, but I never studied 
the detail completely and have forgotten what I learned.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From icgwh at tagyourself.com  Mon Oct 29 14:16:27 2012
From: icgwh at tagyourself.com (icgwh at tagyourself.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 11:16:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: I need help installing pypng in Python 3.3
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3016.1351523294.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <c2254bc0-6dd6-4c4c-b73a-a89ebbe64c4c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3016.1351523294.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <390bc798-c0d0-4538-ba6e-4b57e785f930@googlegroups.com>

> 
> Do you have the file c:\Python33\Lib\site-packages\pypng-0.0.13-py3.3.egg  ?
> 
> If not, you have not successfully installed pypng. Please try one of
> 
> the methods I gave above.

Yes I do have the egg. 

I'm gonna try to summarize:

I don't have installations problems anymore but it seems that png.py is not run through 2to3 although it should since the setup.py is properly configured:

if sys.version_info >= (3,):
    conf['use_2to3'] = True

I even tried to skip the if to ensure the second line is executed but nothing changed.

I don't know what I'm doing wrong but it seems that png.py is not properly translated to Python 3.



From icgwh at tagyourself.com  Mon Oct 29 14:16:27 2012
From: icgwh at tagyourself.com (icgwh at tagyourself.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 11:16:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: I need help installing pypng in Python 3.3
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3016.1351523294.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <c2254bc0-6dd6-4c4c-b73a-a89ebbe64c4c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3016.1351523294.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <390bc798-c0d0-4538-ba6e-4b57e785f930@googlegroups.com>

> 
> Do you have the file c:\Python33\Lib\site-packages\pypng-0.0.13-py3.3.egg  ?
> 
> If not, you have not successfully installed pypng. Please try one of
> 
> the methods I gave above.

Yes I do have the egg. 

I'm gonna try to summarize:

I don't have installations problems anymore but it seems that png.py is not run through 2to3 although it should since the setup.py is properly configured:

if sys.version_info >= (3,):
    conf['use_2to3'] = True

I even tried to skip the if to ensure the second line is executed but nothing changed.

I don't know what I'm doing wrong but it seems that png.py is not properly translated to Python 3.



From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 14:25:51 2012
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 14:25:51 -0400
Subject: Immutability and Python
In-Reply-To: <7x625t6xaj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <CAF_E5Jbf0KJjDLV0jS-p_J9E4D8=_sPScgE+vkmkN2sMw=3aoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1793477354.3492917.1351526431192.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<mailman.3025.1351527152.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x625t6xaj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <CABicbJ+8pNeQ+3eHNCnnMiLYiTy3DRm1ii-rDkFMYe2w+A4HRA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> andrea crotti <andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> writes:
>> Also because how doi I make an immutable object in pure Python?
>
> Numbers in Python are already immutable.  What you're really looking for
> is a programming style where you don't bind any variable more than once.

No, they were looking for a way to create classes whose instances are immutable.

Also, immutability has nothing to do with the presence or lack of for loops.

-- Devin


From mining.facts at googlemail.com  Mon Oct 29 15:03:10 2012
From: mining.facts at googlemail.com (Christian)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 12:03:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OrderedDict / DIctComprehension
In-Reply-To: <b8a2f8fa-c53d-413b-b3df-5883d075a012@googlegroups.com>
References: <b8a2f8fa-c53d-413b-b3df-5883d075a012@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7e12e7ef-5a61-4418-bbc1-95bb92536d9b@googlegroups.com>

Too bad that's not (using python2.7)
'ordered_dict_generator' ((), {}) 1.089588 sec

Anyway thanks for your hint!

> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> is there a way building an OrderedDict faster?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Christian
> 
> 
> 
> @timeit
> 
> def ordered(n=100000):
> 
>     d = OrderedDict()
> 
>     for i in xrange(n):
> 
>         d['key'+str(i)] = i
> 
>     return d
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @timeit
> 
> def comprehension(n=100000):
> 
>     d = { 'key'+str(i):i for i in xrange(n) }
> 
>     return d
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ordered()
> 
> comprehension()
> 
> 
> 
> 'ordered' ((), {}) 0.724609 sec
> 
> 'comprehension' ((), {}) 0.098318 sec


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 15:09:57 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 13:09:57 -0600
Subject: Nice solution wanted: Hide internal interfaces
In-Reply-To: <k6mcjm$99m$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <k6mb4k$5v3$1@news.albasani.net>
	<mailman.3030.1351529244.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<k6mcjm$99m$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnsbSV951Y1MWe7vV-fbveJeUtmGjosH02i9yUuk+oi4A@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:58 AM, Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de> wrote:
> Ah, that's nice. I didn't know that nested classes could access their
> private members naturally (i.e. without using any magic, just with plain
> old attribute access).

There is nothing at all special about nested classes that is different
from non-nested classes.  All it affects is organization; instead of
classes A and B, you have classes A and A.B.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 15:23:03 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 13:23:03 -0600
Subject: Immutability and Python
In-Reply-To: <CAF_E5JYRWxChJMHZc62d74Xnw88S2FhcXqot2V0hPuxfgbzbuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF_E5Jbf0KJjDLV0jS-p_J9E4D8=_sPScgE+vkmkN2sMw=3aoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1793477354.3492917.1351526431192.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<CAF_E5JYRWxChJMHZc62d74Xnw88S2FhcXqot2V0hPuxfgbzbuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmjXz4JuYRCkWtXtHtDcv7DLzFjfUUxWuopwafmTHoP-g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 10:12 AM, andrea crotti
<andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Also because how doi I make an immutable object in pure Python?

I sometimes use namedtuples for this.

from collections import namedtuple

MyImmutableClass = namedtuple('MyImmutableClass', 'field1 field2 field3 field4')

If you want default arguments then use a factory function.  Or if you
want the class to have methods, then subclass it:

_MyImmutableClass = namedtuple('MyImmutableClass', 'field1 field2
field3 field4')

class MyImmutableClass(_MyImmutableClass):

    def __new__(cls, field1, field2, field3=None, field4=42):
        return super().__new__(cls, field1, field2, field3, field4)

    def get_sum(self):
        return self.field1 + self.field2

Cheers,
Ian


From andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com  Mon Oct 29 15:34:24 2012
From: andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com (Andrew Robinson)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 12:34:24 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508f1910$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzid=rhea2aMXM_St2FwTiAx+cnZ20_H6RtwW0_81uSQAFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3053.1351550917.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508f1910$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <508EDA40.8020003@r3dsolutions.com>

On 10/29/2012 05:02 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 08:42:39 -0700, Andrew Robinson wrote:
>
>>>> But, why can't I just overload the existing __getitem__ for lists and
>>>> not bother writing an entire class?
> You say that as if writing "an entire class" was a big complicated
> effort. It isn't. It is trivially simple, a single line:
>
> class MyList(list):
>      ...
No, I don't think it big and complicated.  I do think it has timing 
implications which are undesirable because of how *much* slices are used.
In an embedded target -- I have to optimize; and I will have to reject 
certain parts of Python to make it fit and run fast enough to be useful.

>>> You can just overload that one method in a subclass of list.  Being
>>> able to monkey-patch __getitem__ for the list class itself would not be
>>> advisable, as it would affect all list slicing anywhere in your program
>>> and possibly lead to some unexpected behaviors.
>> That's what I am curious about.
>> What unexpected behaviors would a "monkey patch" typically cause?
> What part of "unexpected" is unclear?
>
Ahh -- The I don't know approach!  It's only unexpected if one is a bad 
programmer...!
> Let me see if I can illustrate a flavour of the sort of things that can
> happen if monkey-patching built-ins were allowed.
>
> You create a list and print it:
>
> # simulated output
> py>  x = [5, 2, 4, 1]
> py>  print(x)
> [1, 2, 4, 5]
<snip>

Finally you search deep into the libraries used in your code, and *five
days later* discover that your code uses library A which uses library B
which uses library C which uses library D which installs a harmless
monkey-patch to print, but only if library E is installed, and you just
happen to have E installed even though your code never uses it, AND that
monkey-patch clashes with a harmless monkey-patch to list.__getitem__
installed by library F. And even though each monkey-patch alone is
harmless, the combination breaks your code's output.

Right, which means that people developing the libraries made 
contradictory assumptions.

> Python allows, but does not encourage, monkey-patching of code written in
> pure Python, because it sometimes can be useful. It flat out prohibits
> monkey-patching of builtins, because it is just too dangerous.
>
> Ruby allows monkey-patching of everything. And the result was predictable:
>
> http://devblog.avdi.org/2008/02/23/why-monkeypatching-is-destroying-ruby/
>

I read that post carefully; and the author purposely notes that he is 
exaggerating.
BUT Your point is still well taken.

What you are talking about is namespace preservation; and I am thinking 
about it. I can preserve it -- but only if I disallow true Python 
primitives in my own interpreter; I can't provide two sets in the memory 
footprint I am using.

 From my perspective, the version of Python that I compile will not be 
supported by the normal python help; The predecessor which first forged 
this path, Pymite, has the same problems -- however, the benefits 
ought-weigh the disadvantages; and the experiment yielded useful 
information on what is redundant in Python (eg: range is not supported) 
and when that redundancy is important for some reason.

If someone had a clear explanation of the disadvantages of allowing an 
iterator, or a tuple -- in place of a slice() -- I would have no qualms 
dropping the subject.  However, I am not finding that yet.  I am finding 
very small optimization issues...

The size of an object is at least 8 bytes.  Hence, three numbers is 
going to be at least 24 bytes; and that's 24 bytes in *excess* of the 
size of slice() or tuple () which are merely containers.  So -- There 
*ARE* savings in memory when using slice(), but it isn't really 2x 
memory -- its more like 20% -- once the actual objects are considered.

The actual *need* for a slice() object still hasn't been demonsrated.  I 
am thinking that the implementation of __getitem__() is very poor 
probably because of legacy issues.

A tuple can also hold None, so ( 1, None, 2 ) is still a valid Tuple.
Alternately:  An iterator, like xrange(), could be made which takes None 
as a parameter, or a special value like 'inf'.
Since these two values would never be passed to xrange by already 
developed code, allowing them would not break working code.

I am only aware of one possible reason that slice() was once thought to 
be necessary; and that is because accessing the element of a tuple would 
recursively call __getitem__ on the tuple.  But, even that is easily 
dismissed once the fixed integer indexes are considered.

Your thoughts?  Do you have any show stopper insights?










From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 15:36:52 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 06:36:52 +1100
Subject: Immutability and Python
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidmjXz4JuYRCkWtXtHtDcv7DLzFjfUUxWuopwafmTHoP-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF_E5Jbf0KJjDLV0jS-p_J9E4D8=_sPScgE+vkmkN2sMw=3aoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1793477354.3492917.1351526431192.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<CAF_E5JYRWxChJMHZc62d74Xnw88S2FhcXqot2V0hPuxfgbzbuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidmjXz4JuYRCkWtXtHtDcv7DLzFjfUUxWuopwafmTHoP-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqddx9sz5YoYQLy5eT7rWs8FdwCrvtHcNjdqPFu6e2+fw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 6:23 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> _MyImmutableClass = namedtuple('MyImmutableClass', 'field1 field2
> field3 field4')
>
> class MyImmutableClass(_MyImmutableClass):

Question: Is it clearer to take advantage of the fact that the base
class can be an arbitrary expression?

class MyImmutableClass(namedtuple('MyImmutableClass', 'field1 field2
field3 field4')):

You lose the unnecessary temporary and triplication of name, but gain
instead a rather long line.

ChrisA


From merwok at netwok.org  Mon Oct 29 16:12:30 2012
From: merwok at netwok.org (=?UTF-8?B?w4lyaWMgQXJhdWpv?=)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 16:12:30 -0400
Subject: Python Bug Day this Saturday in Montreal and on IRC
Message-ID: <508EE32E.5060708@netwok.org>

This Saturday, you have the opportunity of participating in the Python
Bug Day.  How would you like to be one of the contributors of Python? 
If you have ideas for improving parts of the official documentation, the
standard library, the language itself, or if you have a patch waiting
for a review that you would like to see committed, or if you just want
to come and fix an existing bug, it's your day!

Join us for an effort at closing some Python bugs and feature requests. 
Get quick feedback on your patches and bugfixes, learn how to submit and
examine patches, and have fun chatting with the Python developers and
other contributors.  You don?t need to know the CPython codebase or
process to join, just Python programming knowledge.

If you live in Montreal, come at Caravan to meet fellow hackers and take
part in a physical sprint!  The address is 5334 de Gasp?; we'll be there
from 10:00 to 18:00.  Please register at http://mpbugday.eventbrite.ca/
to let us know how many people to expect.  People from around the world
are welcome to join the #python-dev IRC channel to participate in the
bug day.

This page contains all the information you need to get set up, see the
list of bugs or learn about IRC:
http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonBugDay  If you need any help
beforehand, feel free to ask on
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/core-mentorship

Thanks to Caravan for sponsoring us!  http://caravaravan.coop/

See you on Saturday!


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 16:18:09 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 14:18:09 -0600
Subject: Immutability and Python
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqddx9sz5YoYQLy5eT7rWs8FdwCrvtHcNjdqPFu6e2+fw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF_E5Jbf0KJjDLV0jS-p_J9E4D8=_sPScgE+vkmkN2sMw=3aoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1793477354.3492917.1351526431192.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<CAF_E5JYRWxChJMHZc62d74Xnw88S2FhcXqot2V0hPuxfgbzbuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidmjXz4JuYRCkWtXtHtDcv7DLzFjfUUxWuopwafmTHoP-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPTjJmqddx9sz5YoYQLy5eT7rWs8FdwCrvtHcNjdqPFu6e2+fw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmCXuU4+tEiKzi7gmdudfB5sa=2eJ01thsMJjYSELFxXA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:36 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> Question: Is it clearer to take advantage of the fact that the base
> class can be an arbitrary expression?
>
> class MyImmutableClass(namedtuple('MyImmutableClass', 'field1 field2
> field3 field4')):
>
> You lose the unnecessary temporary and triplication of name, but gain
> instead a rather long line.

I think it's more readable if separated, but YMMV.


From gelonida at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 17:44:09 2012
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 22:44:09 +0100
Subject: SSH Connection with Python
In-Reply-To: <CAF3XjbyQF5kmY_LrjxEyeYHdqUJt=m8z5-nt1OgTDnGe7nhd3Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <k6gje2$cpn$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<20121028003523.GA26034@cskk.homeip.net>
	<k6k3dd$e87$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CAF3XjbyQF5kmY_LrjxEyeYHdqUJt=m8z5-nt1OgTDnGe7nhd3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k6mtb7$cb3$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/29/2012 04:18 PM, David Robinow wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:
>> The only thing I'm concerned about paramiko is, that I don't see any
>> activity on the paramiko site and that one library it depends on is not
>> available is windows binary package for newer versions of python.
>>
>   I don't understand why this is a problem.
> \python27\python setup.py install     #for pycrypto & paramiko
> \python27\python test.py   # for paramiko
>
> Works for me.  Of course, you need  Visual C++ 2008, but the free
> express edition is sufficient, and you should have that anyway if
> you're doing Windows development. If that's too hard for you, try
> http://www.serenethinking.com/bitlift/download.html
> [not my site, no guarantees]

It's not a problem. It's an inconvenience.

We're having multiple PCs. Many of the PC owners don't want to write any 
C-code and don't want to be bothered with registering at Microsoft just 
to install a module and using a library.

Normally my preferred approach is, that somebody wanting to use any 
library, that I wrote)  can install all dependencies  by:

- Installing Python
- installing easy_install (and pip)
and be able to install all the rest with easy_install

Using a library, that forces users to have to install MS-VC or mingw or 
to install binaries from non-pypy sites is something I try to avoid.

My next preferred approach would be to bundle such dependencies by 
myself, but this would involve to check all the legal stuff of each 
library to see whether this is possible or not, etc . . .


Apart from that I consider the existence of Windows binary packages as
kind of an indicator of the health/popularity of a package and whether 
it has been used sufficiently under Windows to be considered working 
well under Windows.










From gelonida at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 17:51:19 2012
From: gelonida at gmail.com (Gelonida N)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 22:51:19 +0100
Subject: SSH Connection with Python
In-Reply-To: <roy-294AF8.09105729102012@news.panix.com>
References: <5089119A.2040902@globe.de>
	<CANy1k1gV4s8kg0qneZ-gvybiR_y4NwhH_2gR8cdKTmPi7DckWg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2977.1351455364.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-294AF8.09105729102012@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <k6mtol$g8f$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/29/2012 02:10 PM, Roy Smith wrote:
> In article <mailman.2977.1351455364.27098.python-list at python.org>,
>   Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The sh module looks intersting, but it's not supported for Windows
>> platforms.
>
> "The X module looks interesting but it's not supported for Windows" is
> true for many values of X.  It's all part of the TCO of using a
> brain-dead operating system.

If I write server side code, then I choose my server and my OS, so I 
won't encounter Windows

Unfortunately most the customers won't let me choose their client 
hardware / client OS.

Thus I decide to write my applications cross platform whenever possible 
and try to choose libraries accordingly.








From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Oct 29 18:02:10 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Oct 2012 22:02:10 GMT
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<CAPTjJmpKhfKq+1OUOfNAQUsx5s6OZ8qBXcFcwkYDq4=YJy5i4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<508E0B72.7040107@r3dsolutions.com>
	<mailman.3006.1351514456.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <508efce2$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 23:40:53 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 3:52 PM, Andrew Robinson
> <andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com> wrote:
>> I am curious as to how quickly it constructs the result compared to a
>> slice operation.
>>
>> Eg:
>> a[1:5]
>> vs.
>> [ a[i] for i in xrange[1:5] ]
> 
> For the most part, don't concern yourself with performance. Go with
> functionality and readability. In the trivial case shown here, the slice
> is WAY clearer, so it should definitely be the one used; in other cases,
> the slice might simply be insufficient, so you go with whatever achieves
> your goal. Performance will usually be "good enough", even if there's a
> marginally faster way.


Slicing is about an order of magnitude faster:


[steve at ando ~]$ python2.7 -m timeit -s "x = range(100, 1000, 2)" "x
[20:40]"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.342 usec per loop
[steve at ando ~]$ python2.7 -m timeit -s "x = range(100, 1000, 2)" "[x[i] 
for i in xrange(20, 40)]"
100000 loops, best of 3: 3.43 usec per loop


-- 
Steven


From roy at panix.com  Mon Oct 29 18:08:36 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 18:08:36 -0400
Subject: SSH Connection with Python
References: <5089119A.2040902@globe.de>
	<CANy1k1gV4s8kg0qneZ-gvybiR_y4NwhH_2gR8cdKTmPi7DckWg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2977.1351455364.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-294AF8.09105729102012@news.panix.com>
	<mailman.3048.1351547492.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-FEA1CA.18083629102012@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.3048.1351547492.27098.python-list at python.org>,
 Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 10/29/2012 02:10 PM, Roy Smith wrote:
> > In article <mailman.2977.1351455364.27098.python-list at python.org>,
> >   Gelonida N <gelonida at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> The sh module looks intersting, but it's not supported for Windows
> >> platforms.
> >
> > "The X module looks interesting but it's not supported for Windows" is
> > true for many values of X.  It's all part of the TCO of using a
> > brain-dead operating system.
> 
> If I write server side code, then I choose my server and my OS, so I 
> won't encounter Windows
> 
> Unfortunately most the customers won't let me choose their client 
> hardware / client OS.
> 
> Thus I decide to write my applications cross platform whenever possible 
> and try to choose libraries accordingly.

The other alternative is to chose your customers better :-)


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Oct 29 18:14:41 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Oct 2012 22:14:41 GMT
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <508effd1$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 11:19:38 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Because xrange represents a concrete sequence of numbers, all three of
> start, end and stride must be concrete, known, integers:
> 
> py> xrange(4, None, 2)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> TypeError: an integer is required
> 
> Whereas slices can trivially include blanks that get filled in only when
> actually used:
> 
> py> "hello world"[aslice]
> 'owrd'
> py> "NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!"[aslice] 
> 'D xet h pns nusto!'

/me facepalms/


Argggh, I forgot to copy-and-paste the critical line defining aslice:

aslice = slice(4, None, 2)


Sorry about that.



-- 
Steven


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Mon Oct 29 18:28:52 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 22:28:52 +0000
Subject: better way for ' '.join(args) + '\n'?
In-Reply-To: <k6g9cm$t47$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
References: <utrpl9-udk.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<k6g9cm$t47$1@r03.glglgl.gl>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741673C7AA@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Thomas Rachel wrote:
> Am 26.10.2012 09:49 schrieb Ulrich Eckhardt:
> > Hi!
> >
> > General advise when assembling strings is to not concatenate them
> > repeatedly but instead use string's join() function, because it avoids
> > repeated reallocations and is at least as expressive as any alternative.
> >
> > What I have now is a case where I'm assembling lines of text for driving
> > a program with a commandline interface.
> 
> Stop.
> 
> In this case, you think too complicated.
> 
> Just do
> 
>      subprocess.Popen(['prog', 'foo', 'bar', 'baz'])
> 
> -  is the most safest thing for this use case.
> 
> If it should not be possible for any reason, you should be aware of any
> traps you could catch - e.g., if you want to feed your string to a
> Bourne shell, you should escape the strings properly.
> 
> In such cases, I use
> 
> 
> def shellquote(*strs):
> 	r"""Input: file names, output: ''-enclosed strings where every ' is
> replaced with '\''. Intended for usage with the shell."""
> 	# just take over everything except ';
> 	# replace ' with '\''
> 	# The shell sees ''' as ''\'''\'''\'''. Ugly, but works.
> 	return " ".join([
> 		"'"+st.replace("'","'\\''")+"'"
> 		for st in strs
> 	])
> 
> 
> so I can use
> 
> shellquote('program name', 'argu"ment 1', '$arg 2',
>      "even args containing a ' are ok")
> 
> For Windows, you'll have to modify this somehow.
> 

The subprocess module suggests using pipes.quote for escaping.

>>> a
('program name', 'argu"ment 1', '$arg 2', "even args containing a ' are ok")
>>> import pipes
>>> map(pipes.quote, a)
["'program name'", '\'argu"ment 1\'', "'$arg 2'", '\'even args containing a \'"\'"\' are ok\'']
>>> ' '.join(a)
'\'program name\' \'argu"ment 1\' \'$arg 2\' \'even args containing a \'\\\'\' are ok\''


Ramit Prasad


This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Oct 29 18:30:40 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Oct 2012 22:30:40 GMT
Subject: Immutability and Python
References: <CAF_E5Jbf0KJjDLV0jS-p_J9E4D8=_sPScgE+vkmkN2sMw=3aoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1793477354.3492917.1351526431192.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<mailman.3025.1351527152.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x625t6xaj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.3031.1351530311.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <508f0390$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:05:07 +0000, andrea crotti wrote:

> I meant how do I create new immutables classes myself, I guess that's
> possible writing C extensions but I don't see in pure Python..

Well, you can't *quite* make a truly immutable class in pure-Python, 
because if *your* Python code can manipulate the class during 
construction then so can the caller's Python code after construction.

The trivial way to make an immutable class in Python is to inherit from 
an already immutable class and add behaviour but no state:

class MyInt(int):
    def inc(self):
        return self.__class__(self + 1)


Otherwise, you can add private state and rely on the caller not shooting 
themselves in the foot by accessing single-underscore names, use 
properties to protect private state, etc.

See the source code for collections.namedtuple and decimal.Decimal for 
some examples.

Warning: namedtuple is special, because it uses some runtime exec magic; 
most immutable classes do not need that. And Decimal is seriously large 
and complicated. But you can get some ideas from them both.

Also, see this:

http://northernplanets.blogspot.com.au/2007/01/immutable-instances-in-python.html



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Oct 29 18:34:29 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Oct 2012 22:34:29 GMT
Subject: Immutability and Python
References: <CAF_E5Jbf0KJjDLV0jS-p_J9E4D8=_sPScgE+vkmkN2sMw=3aoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1793477354.3492917.1351526431192.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<CAF_E5JYRWxChJMHZc62d74Xnw88S2FhcXqot2V0hPuxfgbzbuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzidmjXz4JuYRCkWtXtHtDcv7DLzFjfUUxWuopwafmTHoP-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3044.1351539415.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <508f0475$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 06:36:52 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 6:23 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> _MyImmutableClass = namedtuple('MyImmutableClass', 'field1 field2
>> field3 field4')
>>
>> class MyImmutableClass(_MyImmutableClass):
> 
> Question: Is it clearer to take advantage of the fact that the base
> class can be an arbitrary expression?
> 
> class MyImmutableClass(namedtuple('MyImmutableClass', 'field1 field2
> field3 field4')):


I'm too lazy to google for it, but if you read the examples provided by 
namedtuple's creator, Raymond Hettinger, that is precisely one of the 
styles he uses. No need to explicitly declare the base class before using 
it.



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Oct 29 18:37:01 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Oct 2012 22:37:01 GMT
Subject: Nice solution wanted: Hide internal interfaces
References: <k6mb4k$5v3$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <508f050d$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:33:24 +0100, Johannes Bauer wrote:

> Hi there,
> 
> I'm currently looking for a good solution to the following problem: I
> have two classes A and B, which interact with each other and which
> interact with the user. Instances of B are always created by A.
> 
> Now I want A to call some private methods of B and vice versa (i.e. what
> C++ "friends" are), but I want to make it hard for the user to call
> these private methods.

In B, name these private methods with a leading underscore, exactly as 
you would for any other private name, e.g. B._method.

Do not document the existence of B._method in external documentation 
aimed at the user, except to note that all methods with leading 
underscores are private, and the use of them is unsupported and subject 
to change without notice.

In A, use B._method normally. After all, it's *your* code, you can do 
whatever you see fit.


> Currently my ugly approach is this: I delare the internal methods
> private (hide from user). Then I have a function which gives me a
> dictionary of callbacks to the private functions of the other objects.
> This is in my opinion pretty ugly (but it works and does what I want).

Seems to me that this dictionary of callbacks does nothing but add 
unnecessary complexity to your code. What's the point of it?

Besides, if your users are foolish enough to use flagged private 
_methods, they're foolish enough to access the functions in the callback 
dictionary. So you gain nothing but extra work.



-- 
Steven


From andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com  Mon Oct 29 18:39:42 2012
From: andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com (Andrew Robinson)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 15:39:42 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <CALvWhxvJYfSatk7wg8zcBUHm5rHqeqqJss=N2vjCShGy9XoD5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CAPTjJmo3uK0Hfu4h78AkM6BPXXuU9sMuc74QeKFrW4jp54MGMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EC428.5080808@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALvWhxvJYfSatk7wg8zcBUHm5rHqeqqJss=N2vjCShGy9XoD5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508F05AE.50607@r3dsolutions.com>

On 10/29/2012 06:49 PM, Chris Kaynor wrote:
> Every Python object requires two pieces of data, both of which are 
> pointer-sized (one is a pointer, one is an int the size of a pointer). 
> These are: a pointer to the object's type, and the object's reference 
> count. A tuple actually does not need a head pointer: the head pointer 
> is merely an offset from the tuple's pointer. It merely has a ref 
> count, type, an item count, and pointers to its contents. A slice has 
> the same type pointer and reference count, then three pointers to the 
> start, stop, and step objects. This means a slice object should be the 
> same size as a two-item tuple: the tuple needs a count, while that is 
> fixed at 3 for a slice (though some items may be unset). NOTE: The 
> above is taken from reading the source code for Python 2.6. For some 
> odd reason, I am getting that an empty tuple consists of 6 
> pointer-sized objects (48 bytes on x64), rather than the expected 3 
> pointer-sized (24 bytes on x64). Slices are showing up as the expected 
> 5 pointer-sized (40 bytes on x64), and tuples grow at the expected 1 
> pointer (8 bytes on x64) per item. I imagine I am missing something, 
> but cannot figure out what that would be.
>> All I see is:
>> typedef struct { object** whatever } PyTupleObject;
>>
It's fairly straight forward in 3.2.0.  I debugged the code with GDB and 
watched.
Perhaps it is the same in 2.6 ?

In addition to those items you mention, of which the reference count is 
not even *inside* the struct -- there is additional debugging 
information not mentioned.  Built in objects contain a "line number", a 
"column number", and a "context" pointer.  These each require a full 
word of storage.

Also, built in types appear to have a "kind" field which indicates the 
object "type" but is not a pointer.  That suggests two "object" type 
indicators, a generic pointer (probably pointing to "builtin"? somewhere 
outside the struct) and a specific one (an enum) inside the "C" struct.

Inside the tuple struct, I count 4 undocumented words of information.
Over all, there is a length, the list of pointers, a "kind", "line", 
"col" and "context"; making 6 pieces in total.

Although your comment says the head pointer is not required; I found in 
3.3.0 that it is a true head pointer; The Tuple() function on line 2069 
of Python-ast.c, (3.3 version) -- is passed in a pointer called *elts.  
That pointer is copied into the Tuple struct.

How ironic,  slices don't have debugging info, that's the main reason 
they are smaller.
When I do slice(3,0,2), suprisingly "Slice()" is NOT called.
But when I do a[1:2:3] it *IS* called.






From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Mon Oct 29 18:45:59 2012
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 15:45:59 -0700
Subject: Immutability and Python
In-Reply-To: <508f0390$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CAF_E5Jbf0KJjDLV0jS-p_J9E4D8=_sPScgE+vkmkN2sMw=3aoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1793477354.3492917.1351526431192.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<mailman.3025.1351527152.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x625t6xaj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.3031.1351530311.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508f0390$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxvCsZMuFZxuRJS4iJU1ZMTDi2Mj5uQwzRxxYDmkKyjcnA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:05:07 +0000, andrea crotti wrote:
>
>> I meant how do I create new immutables classes myself, I guess that's
>> possible writing C extensions but I don't see in pure Python..
>
> Well, you can't *quite* make a truly immutable class in pure-Python,
> because if *your* Python code can manipulate the class during
> construction then so can the caller's Python code after construction.
>
> The trivial way to make an immutable class in Python is to inherit from
> an already immutable class and add behaviour but no state:
>
> class MyInt(int):
>     def inc(self):
>         return self.__class__(self + 1)
>
>
> Otherwise, you can add private state and rely on the caller not shooting
> themselves in the foot by accessing single-underscore names, use
> properties to protect private state, etc.
>

You'd also need to add __slots__ = () to the class definition to make
it immutable. Otherwise they still can shoot themselves in the foot by
adding new attributes.

>>> class MyInt(int):
...    def inc(self):
...            return self.__class__(self+1)
...
>>> a = MyInt()
>>> a.b = 1 # Oops. Mutated "a".
>>> a.b
1



>>> class MyInt(int):
...     __slots__ = ()
...     def inc(self):
...             return self.__class__(self + 1)
...
>>> a = MyInt()
>>> a.b = 1
AttributeError: 'MyInt' object has no attribute 'b'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin-inspect>", line 1, in <module>
AttributeError: 'MyInt' object has no attribute 'b'


From jannidis at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 18:54:43 2012
From: jannidis at gmail.com (jannidis at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 15:54:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: problems with xml parsing (python 3.3)
In-Reply-To: <97d8de0d-3daa-49be-a91f-c65fc8a9019f@googlegroups.com>
References: <97d8de0d-3daa-49be-a91f-c65fc8a9019f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <07d64ccf-3b8a-4ffa-baa2-5fb566a8a715@googlegroups.com>

Am Sonntag, 28. Oktober 2012 03:27:14 UTC+1 schrieb jann... at gmail.com:
> Hello all, 
> 
> 
> 
> I am new to Python and have a problem with the behaviour of the xml parser. Assume we have this xml document:
> 
> 
> 
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
> 
> <bibliography>
> 
>     <entry>
> 
>             Title of the first book.
> 
>         </entry>
> 
>         <entry>
> 
>             <coauthored/>
> 
> Title of the second book.
> 
>         </entry>
> 
> </bibliography>    
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I now check for the text of all 'entry' nodes, the text for the node with the empty element isn't shown
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> import xml.etree.ElementTree as ET
> 
> tree = ET.ElementTree(file='test.xml')
> 
> root = tree.getroot()
> 
> resultSet = root.findall(".//entry")
> 
> for r in resultSet:
> 
> 	print (r.text)

thanks a lot for your answer. as I am looking for a tool to teach using xml in programming it is a pity that this modul implements a very idiosyncratic view on xml data, but dom and sax are out there too, so I will look at them. 


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 18:55:23 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 09:55:23 +1100
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508EA3EF.5080504@r3dsolutions.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzid=rhea2aMXM_St2FwTiAx+cnZ20_H6RtwW0_81uSQAFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EA3EF.5080504@r3dsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqVuG_BBguZcZCx4s0pqxhmLUTmP_0-JDiYtt_DRCMJUw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 2:42 AM, Andrew Robinson
<andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com> wrote:
> No, there was no error at all.  Pthon just crashed & exited; not even an
> exception that I can recall.   It was if it exited normally!

Can you create a reproducible test case? There's usually a cause to
these sorts of things.

ChrisA


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 19:01:29 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:01:29 -0600
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508E9EBA.2070307@r3dsolutions.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3009.1351516065.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-F5462C.09525029102012@news.panix.com>
	<508E9EBA.2070307@r3dsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmn5YU6ztm5vbzA3gv30ggMLzKA8BK+YccswDGaOgj8mA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Andrew Robinson
<andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com> wrote:
> FYI: I was asking for a reason why Python's present implementation is
> desirable...
>
> I wonder, for example:
>
> Given an arbitrary list:
> a=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12]
>
> Why would someone *want* to do:
> a[-7,10]
> Instead of saying
> a[5:10] or a[-7:-2] ?

A quick search of local code turns up examples like this:

if name.startswith('{') and name.endswith('}'):
    name = name[1:-1]

If slices worked like ranges, then the result of that would be empty,
which is obviously not desirable.

I don't know of a reason why one might need to use a negative start
with a positive stop, though.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Oct 29 19:02:38 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Oct 2012 23:02:38 GMT
Subject: Immutability and Python
References: <mailman.3018.1351524004.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <508f0b0e$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 15:20:02 +0000, andrea crotti wrote:

> I have a philosofical doubt about immutability, that arised while doing
> the SCALA functional programming course.

"Philosophical". Like most words derived from the ancient Greeks, the "F" 
sound uses "ph" rather than "f".


> Now suppose I have a simple NumWrapper class, that very stupidly does:
> 
> class NumWrapper(object):
>     def __init__(self, number):
>         self.number = number
> 
> and we want to change its state incrementing the number, normally I
> would do this
> 
>     def increment(self):
>         self.number += 1

That's a perfectly fine (although incomplete) design for a mutable 
numeric class. But as the basis of an immutable class, it's lousy.

> But the immutability purists would instead suggest to do this:
> 
>     def increment(self):
>         return NumWrapper(self.number + 1)

Only if they don't know Python very well :-)

In this example, the right way to get an immutable class is:

class NumWrapper(int):  # not exactly a *wrapper*
    def increment(self):
        return self.__class__(self + 1)


and you're done. Immutability for free, because you don't store state 
anywhere that pure-Python code can get to it. (Technically, using ctypes 
you could mutate it, so don't do that.)

Here's a sketch of another technique:

class MyNum(object):
    __slots__ = '_num'
    def __new__(cls, arg):
        instance = object.__new__(cls)
        instance._num = int(arg)
        return instance
    @property
    def value(self):
        return self._num
    def increment(self):
        return self.__class__(self.value + 1)


> Now on one hand I would love to use only immutable data in my code, but
> on the other hand I wonder if it makes so much sense in Python.

You can go a long, long way using only immutable primitives and 
functional style in Python, and I recommend it.

On the other hand, a *purely* functional approach doesn't make a lot of 
sense for some tasks. Python is not a pure functional language, and 
doesn't force you to hammer round pegs into the square hole of the 
functional style.

Some problems are best modelled by an object that holds state and can 
change over time, e.g. a database or a dict. Other problems are best 
modelled by constants which do not change, but can be replaced by other 
constants, e.g. numbers. Some problems fall into a grey area, e.g. lists, 
arrays, sets, sequences, strings.

My advice is to always be alert for square pegs in your code, and write 
them in functional style using immutable instances, but don't be a 
purist. If you have a round peg, write that part of your code using a 
mutable instance with in-place mutator methods, and be happy.

The beauty of Python is that you can use whichever style suits the 
problem best.


> My impression is that things get more clumsy in the immutable form, for
> example in the mutable form I would do simply this:
> 
> number = NumWrapper(1)
> number.increment()
> 
> while with immutability I have to do this instead: 
> new_number = number.increment()

Why is this clumsy? Do you have problems with this?

x = 1
y = x+1



-- 
Steven


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 19:07:53 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:07:53 -0600
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508EA3EF.5080504@r3dsolutions.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzid=rhea2aMXM_St2FwTiAx+cnZ20_H6RtwW0_81uSQAFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EA3EF.5080504@r3dsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidn96RNvnTwvVez-3Fx+RQhFc86LTfqVcifZ9dKS0BQU7w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Andrew Robinson
<andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com> wrote:
> The list was generated in a single pass by many .append() 's, and then
> copied once -- the original was left in place; and then I attempted to slice
> it.

Note that if the list was generated by .appends, then it was copied
more than once.  Python reserves a specific amount of space for the
list.  When it grows past that, the list must be reallocated and
copied.  It grows the list exponentially in order to keep the
amortized time complexity of append at O(1), but the point is that a
list of 20 million items is going to be resized and copied several
times before it is complete.


From jenn.duerr at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 19:13:50 2012
From: jenn.duerr at gmail.com (noydb)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 16:13:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: date and time comparison how to
Message-ID: <50e576ea-2ebe-4340-954e-6c23b5885680@googlegroups.com>

All,

I need help with a date and time comparison.

Say a user enters a date-n-time and a file on disk.  I want to compare the date and time of the file to the entered date-n-time; if the file is newer than the entered date-n-time, add the file to a list to process.

How best to do?  I have looked at the datetime module, tried a few things, no luck.

Is os.stat a part of it?  Tried, not sure of the output, the st_mtime/st_ctime doesnt jive with the file's correct date and time.  ??

Any help would be appreciated!


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Oct 29 19:14:50 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Oct 2012 23:14:50 GMT
Subject: Immutability and Python
References: <CAF_E5Jbf0KJjDLV0jS-p_J9E4D8=_sPScgE+vkmkN2sMw=3aoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1793477354.3492917.1351526431192.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
	<mailman.3025.1351527152.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<7x625t6xaj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.3031.1351530311.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508f0390$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3052.1351550783.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <508f0dea$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 15:45:59 -0700, Chris Kaynor wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:05:07 +0000, andrea crotti wrote:
>>
>>> I meant how do I create new immutables classes myself, I guess that's
>>> possible writing C extensions but I don't see in pure Python..
>>
>> Well, you can't *quite* make a truly immutable class in pure-Python,
>> because if *your* Python code can manipulate the class during
>> construction then so can the caller's Python code after construction.
>>
>> The trivial way to make an immutable class in Python is to inherit from
>> an already immutable class and add behaviour but no state:
>>
>> class MyInt(int):
>>     def inc(self):
>>         return self.__class__(self + 1)
>>
>>
>> Otherwise, you can add private state and rely on the caller not
>> shooting themselves in the foot by accessing single-underscore names,
>> use properties to protect private state, etc.
>>
>>
> You'd also need to add __slots__ = () to the class definition to make it
> immutable. Otherwise they still can shoot themselves in the foot by
> adding new attributes.

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this."

"Then don't do that."


I'm not a big fan of preventatively using __slots__ merely to prevent the 
caller from tagging an object with extra data. Why do you care if the 
caller sticks a postit note on the object? It doesn't hurt the object, 
and if the caller loses track of which object has a postit note, that's 
their responsibility, not yours.

I often wish I could sick an attribute on built-ins, e.g. after 
calculating some numeric result as a float, stick an error estimate on 
it. Callers who care about the error estimate can inspect it; those who 
don't, will never even notice it.

If you have a good reason for using __slots__, then go right ahead. 
Otherwise, don't be paternalistic. This is Python, we have the right to 
shoot ourselves in the foot if we like.


-- 
Steven


From roy at panix.com  Mon Oct 29 19:24:10 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 19:24:10 -0400
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzid=rhea2aMXM_St2FwTiAx+cnZ20_H6RtwW0_81uSQAFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EA3EF.5080504@r3dsolutions.com>
	<mailman.3056.1351552107.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-4A06AD.19241029102012@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.3056.1351552107.27098.python-list at python.org>,
 Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Andrew Robinson
> <andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com> wrote:
> > The list was generated in a single pass by many .append() 's, and then
> > copied once -- the original was left in place; and then I attempted to slice
> > it.
> 
> Note that if the list was generated by .appends, then it was copied
> more than once.  Python reserves a specific amount of space for the
> list.  When it grows past that, the list must be reallocated and
> copied.  It grows the list exponentially in order to keep the
> amortized time complexity of append at O(1), but the point is that a
> list of 20 million items is going to be resized and copied several
> times before it is complete.

I think you're missing the point of "amortized constant time".  Yes, the 
first item appended to the list will be copied lg(20,000,000) ~= 25 
times, because the list will be resized that many times(*).  But, on 
average (I'm not sure if "average" is strictly the correct word here), 
each item will be copied only once.

Still, it always stuck me as odd that there's no preallocate() method.  
There are times when you really do know how many items you're going to 
add to the list, and doing a single allocation would be a win.  And it 
doesn't cost anything to provide it.  I suppose, however, if you're 
adding enough items that preallocating would really matter, then maybe 
you want an array instead.

(*) I don't know the exact implementation; I'm assuming each resize is a 
factor of 2.


From andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com  Mon Oct 29 19:33:17 2012
From: andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com (Andrew Robinson)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 16:33:17 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidmq6NLRsBfUOwad5uz6FXGOmOnudJwNCfB6QkKtXnDDGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<CALwzidmq6NLRsBfUOwad5uz6FXGOmOnudJwNCfB6QkKtXnDDGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508F123D.3050703@r3dsolutions.com>

Hi Ian,

There are several interesting/thoughtful things you have written.
I like the way you consider a problem before knee jerk answering.

The copying you mention (or realloc) doesn't re-copy the objects on the 
list.
It merely re-copies the pointer list to those objects. So lets see what 
it would do...

I have seen doubling as the supposed re-alloc method, but I'll assume 
1.25 --
so, 1.25**x = 20million, is 76 copies (max).

The final memory copy would leave about a 30MB hole.
And my version of Python operates initially with a 7MB virtual footprint.

Sooo.... If the garbage collection didn't operate at all, the copying 
would waste around:

 >>> z,w = 30e6,0
 >>> while (z>1): w,z = w+z, z/1.25
...
 >>> print(w)
149999995.8589521

eg: 150MB cummulative.
The doubles would amount to 320Megs max.

Not enough to fill virtual memory up; nor even cause a swap on a 2GB 
memory machine.
It can hold everything in memory at once.

So, I don't think Python's memory management is the heart of the problem,
although memory wise-- it does require copying around 50% of the data.

As an implementation issue, though, the large linear array may cause 
wasteful caching/swapping loops, esp, on smaller machines.

On 10/29/2012 10:27 AM, Ian Kelly wrote:
> Yes, I misconstrued your question.  I thought you wanted to change the
> behavior of slicing to wrap around the end when start>  stop instead
> of returning an empty sequence. ...  Chris has
> already given ...  You
> could also use map for this:
>
> new_seq = list(map(old_seq.__getitem__, iterable))
MMM... interesting.

I am not against changing the behavior, but I do want solutions like you 
are offering.
As I am going to implement a python interpreter, in C,  being able to do 
things differently could significantly reduce the interpreter's size.

However, I want to break existing scripts very seldom...

> I'm aware of what is possible in C with pointer arithmetic. This is 
> Python, though, and Python by design has neither pointers nor pointer 
> arithmetic. In any case, initializing the pointer to the end of the 
> array would still not do what you want, since the positive indices 
> would then extend past the end of the array. 

Yes, *and* if you have done assembly language programming -- you know 
that testing for sign is a trivial operation.  It doesn't even require a 
subtraction.  Hence, at the most basic machine level -- changing the 
base pointer *once* during a slice operation is going to be far more 
efficient than performing multiple subtractions from the end of an 
array, as the Python API defines.
I'll leave out further gory details... but it is a Python interpreter 
built in "C" issue.



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 19:43:03 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:43:03 -0600
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <roy-4A06AD.19241029102012@news.panix.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzid=rhea2aMXM_St2FwTiAx+cnZ20_H6RtwW0_81uSQAFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EA3EF.5080504@r3dsolutions.com>
	<mailman.3056.1351552107.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-4A06AD.19241029102012@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmfZn6WHJ3GMiq8eB+ZazF=r2UGwiyLeYVGGHaXvjqP4A@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
> I think you're missing the point of "amortized constant time".  Yes, the
> first item appended to the list will be copied lg(20,000,000) ~= 25
> times, because the list will be resized that many times(*).  But, on
> average (I'm not sure if "average" is strictly the correct word here),
> each item will be copied only once.
>
> Still, it always stuck me as odd that there's no preallocate() method.
> There are times when you really do know how many items you're going to
> add to the list, and doing a single allocation would be a win.  And it
> doesn't cost anything to provide it.  I suppose, however, if you're
> adding enough items that preallocating would really matter, then maybe
> you want an array instead.
>
> (*) I don't know the exact implementation; I'm assuming each resize is a
> factor of 2.

The growth factor is approximately 1.125.  "Approximately" because
there is also a small constant term.  The average number of copies per
item converges on 8.


From andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com  Mon Oct 29 19:54:41 2012
From: andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com (Andrew Robinson)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 16:54:41 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidmn5YU6ztm5vbzA3gv30ggMLzKA8BK+YccswDGaOgj8mA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3009.1351516065.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-F5462C.09525029102012@news.panix.com>
	<508E9EBA.2070307@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzidmn5YU6ztm5vbzA3gv30ggMLzKA8BK+YccswDGaOgj8mA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508F1741.1070609@r3dsolutions.com>

On 10/29/2012 04:01 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Andrew Robinson
> <andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com>  wrote:
>> FYI: I was asking for a reason why Python's present implementation is
>> desirable...
>>
>> I wonder, for example:
>>
>> Given an arbitrary list:
>> a=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12]
>>
>> Why would someone *want* to do:
>> a[-7,10]
>> Instead of saying
>> a[5:10] or a[-7:-2] ?
> A quick search of local code turns up examples like this:
>
> if name.startswith('{') and name.endswith('}'):
>      name = name[1:-1]
Which is done to avoid explicitly calling the len() operator.
> If slices worked like ranges, then the result of that would be empty,
> which is obviously not desirable.
Yes, and that's an excellent point -- but note what I am showing in the 
example.  It is that example, which I am specifying.  There are only two 
cases where I think the default behavior of Python gives undesirable 
results:

The step is positive, and the pair of indexes goes from negative to 
positive.
Likewise, If the pair went from positive to negative, and the step was 
negative.

In all other combinations, the default behavior of python ought to 
remain intact.
I apologize for not making this crystal clear -- I thought you would 
focus on the specific example I gave.

> I don't know of a reason why one might need to use a negative start
> with a positive stop, though.
I've already given several examples; and another poster did too -- eg: 
Gene sequences for bacteria.  It's not uncommon to need this.  If I do 
some digging, I can also show some common graphics operations that 
benefit greatly from this ability -- NOTE: in another thread I just 
showed someone how to operate on RGBA values...  Slicing becomes THE 
major operation done when converting, or blitting, graphics data. etc.

Another example -- Jpeg, for example, uses discrete cosines -- which are 
a naturally cyclic data type.  They repeat with a fixed period.  I know 
there are "C" libraries already made for Jpeg -- but that doesn't mean 
many other applications with no "C" library aren't plagued by this problem.

I don't know how to make this point more clear.  There really *ARE* 
applications that uses cyclic lists of data; or which can avoid extra 
logic to fix problems encountered from linear arrays which *end* at a 
particular point.

sometimes it is desirable for a truncation to occur, sometimes it's 
NOT.  The sign convention test I outlined, I believe, clearly detects 
when a cyclic data set is desired. If there are normal examples where my 
tests fail -- that's what's important to me.




From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Oct 29 20:02:25 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 30 Oct 2012 00:02:25 GMT
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzid=rhea2aMXM_St2FwTiAx+cnZ20_H6RtwW0_81uSQAFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3053.1351550917.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <508f1910$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 08:42:39 -0700, Andrew Robinson wrote:

>>> But, why can't I just overload the existing __getitem__ for lists and
>>> not bother writing an entire class?

You say that as if writing "an entire class" was a big complicated 
effort. It isn't. It is trivially simple, a single line:

class MyList(list):
    ...


plus the __getitem__ definition, which you would have to write anyway. It 
is a trivial amount of extra effort.


>> You can just overload that one method in a subclass of list.  Being
>> able to monkey-patch __getitem__ for the list class itself would not be
>> advisable, as it would affect all list slicing anywhere in your program
>> and possibly lead to some unexpected behaviors.
>
> That's what I am curious about.
> What unexpected behaviors would a "monkey patch" typically cause? 

What part of "unexpected" is unclear?

Monkey-patching is poor programming technique because it leads to 
*unexpected* and *impossible to predict* interactions between *distant* 
parts of the code. It leads to impossible to predict differences between 
the source code on disk and the actual running code. It leads to 
impossible to predict differences between documented behaviour and actual 
behaviour.

Let me see if I can illustrate a flavour of the sort of things that can 
happen if monkey-patching built-ins were allowed.

You create a list and print it:

# simulated output
py> x = [5, 2, 4, 1]
py> print(x)
[1, 2, 4, 5]

What? How did that happen? That's not the list you provided. The order 
has been lost.

So you dig deep into your code, and you don't find anything. And you read 
the Python documentation for lists, and don't find anything. And you 
google the Internet, and don't find anything. And you ask for help, and 
everybody says you're crazy because when they duplicate your code they 
get the expected behaviour. And you report a bug in Python, and it gets 
closed as "cannot replicate".

Finally you search deep into the libraries used in your code, and *five 
days later* discover that your code uses library A which uses library B 
which uses library C which uses library D which installs a harmless 
monkey-patch to print, but only if library E is installed, and you just 
happen to have E installed even though your code never uses it, AND that 
monkey-patch clashes with a harmless monkey-patch to list.__getitem__ 
installed by library F. And even though each monkey-patch alone is 
harmless, the combination breaks your code's output.



Python allows, but does not encourage, monkey-patching of code written in 
pure Python, because it sometimes can be useful. It flat out prohibits 
monkey-patching of builtins, because it is just too dangerous.

Ruby allows monkey-patching of everything. And the result was predictable:

http://devblog.avdi.org/2008/02/23/why-monkeypatching-is-destroying-ruby/


-- 
Steven


From gherron at digipen.edu  Mon Oct 29 20:04:03 2012
From: gherron at digipen.edu (Gary Herron)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:04:03 -0700
Subject: date and time comparison how to
In-Reply-To: <50e576ea-2ebe-4340-954e-6c23b5885680@googlegroups.com>
References: <50e576ea-2ebe-4340-954e-6c23b5885680@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <508F1973.2030907@digipen.edu>

On 10/29/2012 04:13 PM, noydb wrote:
> All,
>
> I need help with a date and time comparison.
>
> Say a user enters a date-n-time and a file on disk.  I want to compare the date and time of the file to the entered date-n-time; if the file is newer than the entered date-n-time, add the file to a list to process.
>
> How best to do?  I have looked at the datetime module, tried a few things, no luck.
>
> Is os.stat a part of it?  Tried, not sure of the output, the st_mtime/st_ctime doesnt jive with the file's correct date and time.  ??
>
> Any help would be appreciated!

Use the datetime module (distributed with Python) to compare date/times.

You can turn a filesystem time into a datetime with something like the 
following:
                 import datetime, os, stat
                 mtime = os.lstat(filename)[stat.ST_MTIME]   // the 
files modification time
                 dt = datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp(mtime)


-- 
Dr. Gary Herron
Department of Computer Science
DigiPen Institute of Technology
(425) 895-4418



From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 20:04:22 2012
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 00:04:22 +0000
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidmn5YU6ztm5vbzA3gv30ggMLzKA8BK+YccswDGaOgj8mA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3009.1351516065.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-F5462C.09525029102012@news.panix.com>
	<508E9EBA.2070307@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzidmn5YU6ztm5vbzA3gv30ggMLzKA8BK+YccswDGaOgj8mA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxQSG4mg_=5ENYxv84grkvZcdO5Q65fSjky8uG3kM2BekA@mail.gmail.com>

On 29 October 2012 23:01, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Andrew Robinson
> <andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com> wrote:
>> FYI: I was asking for a reason why Python's present implementation is
>> desirable...
>>
>> I wonder, for example:
>>
>> Given an arbitrary list:
>> a=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12]
>>
>> Why would someone *want* to do:
>> a[-7,10]
>> Instead of saying
>> a[5:10] or a[-7:-2] ?
>
> A quick search of local code turns up examples like this:
>
> if name.startswith('{') and name.endswith('}'):
>     name = name[1:-1]
>
> If slices worked like ranges, then the result of that would be empty,
> which is obviously not desirable.
>
> I don't know of a reason why one might need to use a negative start
> with a positive stop, though.

It's useful when getting a reversed slice:

>>> a = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]
>>> a[-3:3:-1]
[8, 7, 6, 5]


Oscar


From andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com  Mon Oct 29 20:04:43 2012
From: andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com (Andrew Robinson)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:04:43 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508F6B58.6060207@gmail.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzid=rhea2aMXM_St2FwTiAx+cnZ20_H6RtwW0_81uSQAFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3053.1351550917.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508f1910$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508EDA40.8020003@r3dsolutions.com> <508F6B58.6060207@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508F199B.6050209@r3dsolutions.com>

On 10/29/2012 10:53 PM, Michael Torrie wrote:
> On 10/29/2012 01:34 PM, Andrew Robinson wrote:
>> No, I don't think it big and complicated.  I do think it has timing
>> implications which are undesirable because of how *much* slices are used.
>> In an embedded target -- I have to optimize; and I will have to reject
>> certain parts of Python to make it fit and run fast enough to be useful.
> Since you can't port the full Python system to your embedded machine
> anyway, why not just port a subset of python and modify it to suit your
> needs right there in the C code.  It would be a fork, yes,
You're exactly right;  That's what I *know* I am faced with.

>    Without a libc, an MMU on the CPU, and a kernel, it's not going to just compile and run.
I have libc.  The MMU is a problem; but the compiler implements the 
standard "C" math library; floats, though, instead of doubles.  That's 
the only problem -- there.
>   What you want with slicing behavior changes has no
> place in the normal cPython implementation, for a lot of reasons.  The
> main one is that it is already possible to implement what you are
> talking about in your own python class, which is a fine solution for a
> normal computer with memory and CPU power available.
If the tests I outlined in the previous post inaccurately describe a 
major performance improvement and at least a modest code size reduction; 
or will *often* introduce bugs -- I *AGREE* with you.

Otherwise, I don't.  I don't think wasting extra CPU power is a good 
thing -- Extra CPU power can always be used by something else....

I won't belabor the point further.  I'd love to see a counter example to 
the specific criteria I just provided to IAN -- it would end my quest; 
and be a good reference to point others to.




From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 20:05:27 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 18:05:27 -0600
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidmfZn6WHJ3GMiq8eB+ZazF=r2UGwiyLeYVGGHaXvjqP4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzid=rhea2aMXM_St2FwTiAx+cnZ20_H6RtwW0_81uSQAFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EA3EF.5080504@r3dsolutions.com>
	<mailman.3056.1351552107.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-4A06AD.19241029102012@news.panix.com>
	<CALwzidmfZn6WHJ3GMiq8eB+ZazF=r2UGwiyLeYVGGHaXvjqP4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidn_kOVhpokRKh_cCbiYmKe1DZLpq3TC51_YgHfELRvbNg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 5:43 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> The growth factor is approximately 1.125.  "Approximately" because
> there is also a small constant term.  The average number of copies per
> item converges on 8.

Of course, that is the *maximum* number of copies.  The actual number
could be much less if realloc() performs well.


From andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com  Mon Oct 29 20:17:07 2012
From: andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com (Andrew Robinson)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:17:07 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnSsg+HF7ZAG+rMg2pGEJMQBNLJKYXcXpFuE2p3MW1waQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CAPTjJmo3uK0Hfu4h78AkM6BPXXuU9sMuc74QeKFrW4jp54MGMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EC428.5080808@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALvWhxvJYfSatk7wg8zcBUHm5rHqeqqJss=N2vjCShGy9XoD5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<508F05AE.50607@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzidnSsg+HF7ZAG+rMg2pGEJMQBNLJKYXcXpFuE2p3MW1waQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508F1C83.1080606@r3dsolutions.com>

On 10/29/2012 11:51 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Andrew Robinson
>
> As above, you're looking at the compiler code, which is why you're
> finding things like "line" and "column".  The tuple struct is defined
> in tupleobject.h and stores tuple elements in a tail array.
>

If you re-check my post to chris, I listed the struct you mention.
The C code is what is actually run (by GDB breakpoint test) when a tuple 
is instantiated.
If the tuple were stripped of the extra data -- then it ought to be as 
small as slice().
But it's not as small -- so either the sys.getsizeof() is lying -- or 
the struct you mention is not complete.

Which?

--Andrew.



From roy at panix.com  Mon Oct 29 20:17:17 2012
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 20:17:17 -0400
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzid=rhea2aMXM_St2FwTiAx+cnZ20_H6RtwW0_81uSQAFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EA3EF.5080504@r3dsolutions.com>
	<mailman.3056.1351552107.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-4A06AD.19241029102012@news.panix.com>
	<mailman.3057.1351554215.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-31BCE0.20171729102012@news.panix.com>

In article <mailman.3057.1351554215.27098.python-list at python.org>,
 Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
> > I think you're missing the point of "amortized constant time".  Yes, the
> > first item appended to the list will be copied lg(20,000,000) ~= 25
> > times, because the list will be resized that many times(*).  But, on
> > average (I'm not sure if "average" is strictly the correct word here),
> > each item will be copied only once.
> >
> > Still, it always stuck me as odd that there's no preallocate() method.
> > There are times when you really do know how many items you're going to
> > add to the list, and doing a single allocation would be a win.  And it
> > doesn't cost anything to provide it.  I suppose, however, if you're
> > adding enough items that preallocating would really matter, then maybe
> > you want an array instead.
> >
> > (*) I don't know the exact implementation; I'm assuming each resize is a
> > factor of 2.
> 
> The growth factor is approximately 1.125.  "Approximately" because
> there is also a small constant term.  The average number of copies per
> item converges on 8.

Wow, that's surprising.  It also makes it that much more surprising that 
there's no way to pre-allocate.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Oct 29 20:50:48 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 00:50:48 +0000
Subject: date and time comparison how to
In-Reply-To: <508F1973.2030907@digipen.edu>
References: <50e576ea-2ebe-4340-954e-6c23b5885680@googlegroups.com>
	<508F1973.2030907@digipen.edu>
Message-ID: <508F2468.6040703@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-30 00:04, Gary Herron wrote:
> On 10/29/2012 04:13 PM, noydb wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> I need help with a date and time comparison.
>>
>> Say a user enters a date-n-time and a file on disk.  I want to compare the date and time of the file to the entered date-n-time; if the file is newer than the entered date-n-time, add the file to a list to process.
>>
>> How best to do?  I have looked at the datetime module, tried a few things, no luck.
>>
>> Is os.stat a part of it?  Tried, not sure of the output, the st_mtime/st_ctime doesnt jive with the file's correct date and time.  ??
>>
>> Any help would be appreciated!
>
> Use the datetime module (distributed with Python) to compare date/times.
>
> You can turn a filesystem time into a datetime with something like the
> following:
>                   import datetime, os, stat
>                   mtime = os.lstat(filename)[stat.ST_MTIME]   // the
> files modification time
>                   dt = datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp(mtime)
>
>
Instead of os.lstat(filename)[stat.ST_MTIME] you could use
os.path.getmtime(filename).


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 21:37:16 2012
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 18:37:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Nice solution wanted: Hide internal interfaces
References: <k6mb4k$5v3$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <761032ae-6c92-4b80-b287-e158ece7582e@kt16g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 30, 2:33?am, Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsdu... at gmx.de> wrote:
> I'm currently looking for a good solution to the following problem: I
> have two classes A and B, which interact with each other and which
> interact with the user. Instances of B are always created by A.
>
> Now I want A to call some private methods of B and vice versa (i.e. what
> C++ "friends" are), but I want to make it hard for the user to call
> these private methods.

One approach could be to only have the public interface on B, and then
create a wrapper for B that provides the private interface:

    class B:
        def public_method(self):
            pass

    class B_Private:
        def __init__(self, context):
            self.context = context

        def private_method(self):
            # manipulate self.context

    class A:
        def __init__(self):
            self.b = B()
            self.b_private = B_Private(self.b)

        def foo(self):
            # call public method
            self.b.public_method()

            # call private method
            self.b_private.private_method()

It doesn't stop a user from accessing the private methods, but it does
separate them so they have to *intentionally* choose to use them.


From jenn.duerr at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 21:47:19 2012
From: jenn.duerr at gmail.com (noydb)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 18:47:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: date and time comparison how to
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3061.1351558251.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <50e576ea-2ebe-4340-954e-6c23b5885680@googlegroups.com>
	<508F1973.2030907@digipen.edu>
	<mailman.3061.1351558251.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6101355b-ae00-4482-96ee-ed60f5cb465f@googlegroups.com>

Thanks, I did find this...

pdf_timeStamp = time.strftime("%m%d%y%H%M%S",time.localtime(os.path.getmtime(pdf)))

>> pdf_timestamp
>> '102909133000'

... but now how to do the comparison?  Cannot just do a raw string comparison, gotta declare it a date


From jenn.duerr at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 21:47:19 2012
From: jenn.duerr at gmail.com (noydb)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 18:47:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: date and time comparison how to
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3061.1351558251.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <50e576ea-2ebe-4340-954e-6c23b5885680@googlegroups.com>
	<508F1973.2030907@digipen.edu>
	<mailman.3061.1351558251.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6101355b-ae00-4482-96ee-ed60f5cb465f@googlegroups.com>

Thanks, I did find this...

pdf_timeStamp = time.strftime("%m%d%y%H%M%S",time.localtime(os.path.getmtime(pdf)))

>> pdf_timestamp
>> '102909133000'

... but now how to do the comparison?  Cannot just do a raw string comparison, gotta declare it a date


From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Mon Oct 29 21:49:19 2012
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 18:49:19 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508EC428.5080808@r3dsolutions.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CAPTjJmo3uK0Hfu4h78AkM6BPXXuU9sMuc74QeKFrW4jp54MGMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EC428.5080808@r3dsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxvJYfSatk7wg8zcBUHm5rHqeqqJss=N2vjCShGy9XoD5A@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Andrew Robinson
<andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com> wrote:
>
> Let's look at the source code rather than the web notes -- the source must
> be the true answer anyhow.
>
> I downloaded the source code for python 3.3.0, as the tbz;
> In the directory "Python-3.3.0/Python", look at Python-ast.c, line 2089 &
> ff.
>
> Clearly a slice is malloced for a slice_ty type.
> It has four elements: kind, lower, upper, and step.
>
> So, tracing it back to the struct definition...
>
> "Include/Python-ast.h"  has "typedef struct _slice *slice_ty;"
>
> And, here's the answer!:
>
> enum _slice_kind {Slice_kind=1, ExtSlice_kind=2, Index_kind=3};
> struct _slice {
>         enum _slice_kind kind;
>         union {
>                 struct {
>                         expr_ty lower;
>                         expr_ty upper;
>                         expr_ty step;
>                 } Slice;
>
>                 struct {
>                         asdl_seq *dims;
>                 } ExtSlice;
>
>                 struct {
>                         expr_ty value;
>                 } Index;
>
>         } v;
> };
>
>
> So, slice() does indeed have arbitrary python types included in it; contrary
> to what I read elsewhere.
> expr_ty is a pointer to an arbitrary expression, so the actual structure is
> 4 pointers, at 32 bits each = 16 bytes.
> The size of the structure itself, given in an earlier post, is 20 bytes --
> which means one more pointer is involved, perhaps the one pointing to the
> slice structure itself.
>
> Hmm...!
>
> An empty tuple gives sys.getsizeof( () ) = 24.
>
> But, I would expect a tuple to be merely a list of object pointers; hence I
> would expect 4 bytes for len(), and then a head pointer 4 bytes, and then a
> pointer for each object.
> 3 objects gives 12 bytes, + 8 = 16 bytes.
>
> Then we need one more pointer so Python knows where the struct is...
> So a Tuple of 3 objects ought to fit nicely into 20 bytes; the same size as
> slice() --
>
> but it's 24, even when empty...
> And 36 when initialized...
> What are the extra 16 bytes for?

Every Python object requires two pieces of data, both of which are
pointer-sized (one is a pointer, one is an int the size of a pointer).
These are: a pointer to the object's type, and the object's reference
count.

A tuple actually does not need a head pointer: the head pointer is
merely an offset from the tuple's pointer. It merely has a ref count,
type, an item count, and pointers to its contents.

A slice has the same type pointer and reference count, then three
pointers to the start, stop, and step objects. This means a slice
object should be the same size as a two-item tuple: the tuple needs a
count, while that is fixed at 3 for a slice (though some items may be
unset).

NOTE: The above is taken from reading the source code for Python 2.6.
For some odd reason, I am getting that an empty tuple consists of 6
pointer-sized objects (48 bytes on x64), rather than the expected 3
pointer-sized (24 bytes on x64). Slices are showing up as the expected
5 pointer-sized (40 bytes on x64), and tuples grow at the expected 1
pointer (8 bytes on x64) per item. I imagine I am missing something,
but cannot figure out what that would be.

>
> All I see is:
> typedef struct { object** whatever } PyTupleObject;
>


From jenn.duerr at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 22:02:59 2012
From: jenn.duerr at gmail.com (noydb)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 19:02:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: date and time comparison how to
In-Reply-To: <6101355b-ae00-4482-96ee-ed60f5cb465f@googlegroups.com>
References: <50e576ea-2ebe-4340-954e-6c23b5885680@googlegroups.com>
	<508F1973.2030907@digipen.edu>
	<mailman.3061.1351558251.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<6101355b-ae00-4482-96ee-ed60f5cb465f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <85ea1841-6849-4970-b08b-5c7bbb7bba14@googlegroups.com>

if I do time.time() I get 1351562187.757, do it again I get 1351562212.2650001 --- so I can compare those, the latter is later then the former.  Good.  SO how do I turn pdf_timeStamp (a string) above into time in this (as from time.time()) format?  Am I on the right track -- is that the way to do a time comparison?


From jenn.duerr at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 22:02:59 2012
From: jenn.duerr at gmail.com (noydb)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 19:02:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: date and time comparison how to
In-Reply-To: <6101355b-ae00-4482-96ee-ed60f5cb465f@googlegroups.com>
References: <50e576ea-2ebe-4340-954e-6c23b5885680@googlegroups.com>
	<508F1973.2030907@digipen.edu>
	<mailman.3061.1351558251.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<6101355b-ae00-4482-96ee-ed60f5cb465f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <85ea1841-6849-4970-b08b-5c7bbb7bba14@googlegroups.com>

if I do time.time() I get 1351562187.757, do it again I get 1351562212.2650001 --- so I can compare those, the latter is later then the former.  Good.  SO how do I turn pdf_timeStamp (a string) above into time in this (as from time.time()) format?  Am I on the right track -- is that the way to do a time comparison?


From jenn.duerr at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 22:13:56 2012
From: jenn.duerr at gmail.com (noydb)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 19:13:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: date and time comparison how to
In-Reply-To: <85ea1841-6849-4970-b08b-5c7bbb7bba14@googlegroups.com>
References: <50e576ea-2ebe-4340-954e-6c23b5885680@googlegroups.com>
	<508F1973.2030907@digipen.edu>
	<mailman.3061.1351558251.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<6101355b-ae00-4482-96ee-ed60f5cb465f@googlegroups.com>
	<85ea1841-6849-4970-b08b-5c7bbb7bba14@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6f437b0f-1fe5-49c6-98e3-7be615d04858@googlegroups.com>

I guess I get there eventually!  
This seems to work

    pdf_timeStamp = time.strftime("%m%d%y%H%M%S",time.localtime(os.path.getmtime(pdf)))
    intermediateTime = time.strptime(pdf_timeStamp, "%m%d%y%H%M%S")
    pdfFile_compareTime = time.mktime(intermediateTime)

(and I'll do the same to the user entered date-n-time and then compare)


Lastly, so can anyone chime in and tell me if this is a good method or not?  Is there a better way?


From jenn.duerr at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 22:13:56 2012
From: jenn.duerr at gmail.com (noydb)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 19:13:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: date and time comparison how to
In-Reply-To: <85ea1841-6849-4970-b08b-5c7bbb7bba14@googlegroups.com>
References: <50e576ea-2ebe-4340-954e-6c23b5885680@googlegroups.com>
	<508F1973.2030907@digipen.edu>
	<mailman.3061.1351558251.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<6101355b-ae00-4482-96ee-ed60f5cb465f@googlegroups.com>
	<85ea1841-6849-4970-b08b-5c7bbb7bba14@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6f437b0f-1fe5-49c6-98e3-7be615d04858@googlegroups.com>

I guess I get there eventually!  
This seems to work

    pdf_timeStamp = time.strftime("%m%d%y%H%M%S",time.localtime(os.path.getmtime(pdf)))
    intermediateTime = time.strptime(pdf_timeStamp, "%m%d%y%H%M%S")
    pdfFile_compareTime = time.mktime(intermediateTime)

(and I'll do the same to the user entered date-n-time and then compare)


Lastly, so can anyone chime in and tell me if this is a good method or not?  Is there a better way?


From d at davea.name  Mon Oct 29 23:11:29 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 23:11:29 -0400
Subject: date and time comparison how to
In-Reply-To: <6f437b0f-1fe5-49c6-98e3-7be615d04858@googlegroups.com>
References: <50e576ea-2ebe-4340-954e-6c23b5885680@googlegroups.com>
	<508F1973.2030907@digipen.edu>
	<mailman.3061.1351558251.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<6101355b-ae00-4482-96ee-ed60f5cb465f@googlegroups.com>
	<85ea1841-6849-4970-b08b-5c7bbb7bba14@googlegroups.com>
	<6f437b0f-1fe5-49c6-98e3-7be615d04858@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <508F4561.9070606@davea.name>

On 10/29/2012 10:13 PM, noydb wrote:
> I guess I get there eventually!  
> This seems to work
>
>     pdf_timeStamp = time.strftime("%m%d%y%H%M%S",time.localtime(os.path.getmtime(pdf)))
>     intermediateTime = time.strptime(pdf_timeStamp, "%m%d%y%H%M%S")
>     pdfFile_compareTime = time.mktime(intermediateTime)
>
> (and I'll do the same to the user entered date-n-time and then compare)
>
>
> Lastly, so can anyone chime in and tell me if this is a good method or not?  Is there a better way?

Please read the rest of the thread in particular the message 3 hours ago
from Gary Herron

                import datetime, os, stat
                mtime = os.lstat(filename)[stat.ST_MTIME]   // the files
modification time
                dt = datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp(mtime)

Now you can compare two datetimes simply by
   if dt1 < dt2:

Or you can subtract them, and examine the difference.

What's the need for all that string conversion stuff?



-- 

DaveA



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Oct 29 23:30:27 2012
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 03:30:27 +0000
Subject: date and time comparison how to
In-Reply-To: <508F4561.9070606@davea.name>
References: <50e576ea-2ebe-4340-954e-6c23b5885680@googlegroups.com>
	<508F1973.2030907@digipen.edu>
	<mailman.3061.1351558251.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<6101355b-ae00-4482-96ee-ed60f5cb465f@googlegroups.com>
	<85ea1841-6849-4970-b08b-5c7bbb7bba14@googlegroups.com>
	<6f437b0f-1fe5-49c6-98e3-7be615d04858@googlegroups.com>
	<508F4561.9070606@davea.name>
Message-ID: <508F49D3.6060307@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2012-10-30 03:11, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 10/29/2012 10:13 PM, noydb wrote:
>> I guess I get there eventually!
>> This seems to work
>>
>>     pdf_timeStamp = time.strftime("%m%d%y%H%M%S",time.localtime(os.path.getmtime(pdf)))
>>     intermediateTime = time.strptime(pdf_timeStamp, "%m%d%y%H%M%S")
>>     pdfFile_compareTime = time.mktime(intermediateTime)
>>
>> (and I'll do the same to the user entered date-n-time and then compare)
>>
>>
>> Lastly, so can anyone chime in and tell me if this is a good method or not?  Is there a better way?
>
> Please read the rest of the thread in particular the message 3 hours ago
> from Gary Herron
>
>                  import datetime, os, stat
>                  mtime = os.lstat(filename)[stat.ST_MTIME]   // the files
> modification time
>                  dt = datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp(mtime)
>
> Now you can compare two datetimes simply by
>     if dt1 < dt2:
>
> Or you can subtract them, and examine the difference.
>
> What's the need for all that string conversion stuff?
>
+1

Incidentally, the best order for dates is year (4 digits - remember
Y2K? :-)) then month then day.


From jenn.duerr at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 00:20:44 2012
From: jenn.duerr at gmail.com (noydb)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 21:20:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: date and time comparison how to
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3068.1351566714.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <50e576ea-2ebe-4340-954e-6c23b5885680@googlegroups.com>
	<508F1973.2030907@digipen.edu>
	<mailman.3061.1351558251.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<6101355b-ae00-4482-96ee-ed60f5cb465f@googlegroups.com>
	<85ea1841-6849-4970-b08b-5c7bbb7bba14@googlegroups.com>
	<6f437b0f-1fe5-49c6-98e3-7be615d04858@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3068.1351566714.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d6043deb-74d8-4c3a-9661-228ab7f17291@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 29, 2012 11:11:55 PM UTC-4, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 10/29/2012 10:13 PM, noydb wrote:
> 
> > I guess I get there eventually!  
> 
> > This seems to work
> 
> >
> 
> >     pdf_timeStamp = time.strftime("%m%d%y%H%M%S",time.localtime(os.path.getmtime(pdf)))
> 
> >     intermediateTime = time.strptime(pdf_timeStamp, "%m%d%y%H%M%S")
> 
> >     pdfFile_compareTime = time.mktime(intermediateTime)
> 
> >
> 
> > (and I'll do the same to the user entered date-n-time and then compare)
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > Lastly, so can anyone chime in and tell me if this is a good method or not?  Is there a better way?
> 
> 
> 
> Please read the rest of the thread in particular the message 3 hours ago
> 
> from Gary Herron
> 
> 
> 
>                 import datetime, os, stat
> 
>                 mtime = os.lstat(filename)[stat.ST_MTIME]   // the files
> 
> modification time
> 
>                 dt = datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp(mtime)
> 
> 
> 
> Now you can compare two datetimes simply by
> 
>    if dt1 < dt2:
> 
> 
> 
> Or you can subtract them, and examine the difference.
> 
> 
> 
> What's the need for all that string conversion stuff?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> DaveA

okay, I see.
But for the user supplied date... I'm not sure of the format just yet... testing with a string for now (actual date-date might be possible, tbd later), so like '10292012213000' (oct 29, 2012 9:30pm).  How would you get that input into a format to compare with dt above?


From jenn.duerr at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 00:20:44 2012
From: jenn.duerr at gmail.com (noydb)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 21:20:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: date and time comparison how to
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3068.1351566714.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <50e576ea-2ebe-4340-954e-6c23b5885680@googlegroups.com>
	<508F1973.2030907@digipen.edu>
	<mailman.3061.1351558251.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<6101355b-ae00-4482-96ee-ed60f5cb465f@googlegroups.com>
	<85ea1841-6849-4970-b08b-5c7bbb7bba14@googlegroups.com>
	<6f437b0f-1fe5-49c6-98e3-7be615d04858@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3068.1351566714.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d6043deb-74d8-4c3a-9661-228ab7f17291@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 29, 2012 11:11:55 PM UTC-4, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 10/29/2012 10:13 PM, noydb wrote:
> 
> > I guess I get there eventually!  
> 
> > This seems to work
> 
> >
> 
> >     pdf_timeStamp = time.strftime("%m%d%y%H%M%S",time.localtime(os.path.getmtime(pdf)))
> 
> >     intermediateTime = time.strptime(pdf_timeStamp, "%m%d%y%H%M%S")
> 
> >     pdfFile_compareTime = time.mktime(intermediateTime)
> 
> >
> 
> > (and I'll do the same to the user entered date-n-time and then compare)
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > Lastly, so can anyone chime in and tell me if this is a good method or not?  Is there a better way?
> 
> 
> 
> Please read the rest of the thread in particular the message 3 hours ago
> 
> from Gary Herron
> 
> 
> 
>                 import datetime, os, stat
> 
>                 mtime = os.lstat(filename)[stat.ST_MTIME]   // the files
> 
> modification time
> 
>                 dt = datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp(mtime)
> 
> 
> 
> Now you can compare two datetimes simply by
> 
>    if dt1 < dt2:
> 
> 
> 
> Or you can subtract them, and examine the difference.
> 
> 
> 
> What's the need for all that string conversion stuff?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> DaveA

okay, I see.
But for the user supplied date... I'm not sure of the format just yet... testing with a string for now (actual date-date might be possible, tbd later), so like '10292012213000' (oct 29, 2012 9:30pm).  How would you get that input into a format to compare with dt above?


From torriem at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 01:53:28 2012
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 23:53:28 -0600
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508EDA40.8020003@r3dsolutions.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzid=rhea2aMXM_St2FwTiAx+cnZ20_H6RtwW0_81uSQAFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3053.1351550917.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508f1910$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508EDA40.8020003@r3dsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <508F6B58.6060207@gmail.com>

On 10/29/2012 01:34 PM, Andrew Robinson wrote:
> No, I don't think it big and complicated.  I do think it has timing 
> implications which are undesirable because of how *much* slices are used.
> In an embedded target -- I have to optimize; and I will have to reject 
> certain parts of Python to make it fit and run fast enough to be useful.

Since you can't port the full Python system to your embedded machine
anyway, why not just port a subset of python and modify it to suit your
needs right there in the C code.  It would be a fork, yes, but any port
to this target will be a fork anyway.  No matter how you cut it, it
won't be easy at all, and won't be easy to maintain.  You'll basically
be writing your own implementation of Python (that's what
python-on-a-chip is, and that's why it's closer to Python 2.x than
Python 3).  That's totally fine, though.  I get the impression you think
you will be able to port cPython as is to your target.  Without a libc,
an MMU on the CPU, and a kernel, it's not going to just compile and run.

Anyway, the only solution, given your constraints, is to implement your
own python interpreter to handle a subset of Python, and modify it to
suit your tastes.  What you want with slicing behavior changes has no
place in the normal cPython implementation, for a lot of reasons.  The
main one is that it is already possible to implement what you are
talking about in your own python class, which is a fine solution for a
normal computer with memory and CPU power available.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 01:55:00 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 23:55:00 -0600
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508EC428.5080808@r3dsolutions.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CAPTjJmo3uK0Hfu4h78AkM6BPXXuU9sMuc74QeKFrW4jp54MGMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EC428.5080808@r3dsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidm-zTY9T8Gof97790p0pmXTRjMyGPB=rGzZXESDg_2pYQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Andrew Robinson
<andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com> wrote:
> I downloaded the source code for python 3.3.0, as the tbz;
> In the directory "Python-3.3.0/Python", look at Python-ast.c, line 2089 &
> ff.

Python-ast.c is part of the compiler code.  That's not the struct used
to represent the object at runtime, but the struct used to represent
the AST node while compiling.

For the runtime definition of slices, look at sliceobject.h and
sliceobject.c.  Slices are represented as:

typedef struct {
    PyObject_HEAD
    PyObject *start, *stop, *step;	/* not NULL */
} PySliceObject;

"PyObject_HEAD" is a macro that incorporates the object type pointer
and the reference count.  Hence, 5 words.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 02:12:47 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 17:12:47 +1100
Subject: date and time comparison how to
In-Reply-To: <d6043deb-74d8-4c3a-9661-228ab7f17291@googlegroups.com>
References: <50e576ea-2ebe-4340-954e-6c23b5885680@googlegroups.com>
	<508F1973.2030907@digipen.edu>
	<mailman.3061.1351558251.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<6101355b-ae00-4482-96ee-ed60f5cb465f@googlegroups.com>
	<85ea1841-6849-4970-b08b-5c7bbb7bba14@googlegroups.com>
	<6f437b0f-1fe5-49c6-98e3-7be615d04858@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3068.1351566714.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<d6043deb-74d8-4c3a-9661-228ab7f17291@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpyLti9mKLrE7P7Ca4uaDLYmsij8j7fA36S3w33fxeNRQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 3:20 PM, noydb <jenn.duerr at gmail.com> wrote:
> But for the user supplied date... I'm not sure of the format just yet... testing with a string for now (actual date-date might be possible, tbd later), so like '10292012213000' (oct 29, 2012 9:30pm).  How would you get that input into a format to compare with dt above?

Instead of formatting your other date to match the input, turn the
input into something you can easily manipulate - preferably, Unix time
(seconds since 1970, sometimes referred to as a "time_t"). Once both
your timestamps are integer (or float) seconds since a known epoch,
they can be compared directly, as numbers.

You're already pretty much there with strptime. Poke around with that
and play with your format string and you should have it. But you may
need to tweak it to match your actual input.

ChrisA


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 02:51:19 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 00:51:19 -0600
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508F05AE.50607@r3dsolutions.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CAPTjJmo3uK0Hfu4h78AkM6BPXXuU9sMuc74QeKFrW4jp54MGMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EC428.5080808@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALvWhxvJYfSatk7wg8zcBUHm5rHqeqqJss=N2vjCShGy9XoD5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<508F05AE.50607@r3dsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnSsg+HF7ZAG+rMg2pGEJMQBNLJKYXcXpFuE2p3MW1waQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Andrew Robinson
<andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com> wrote:
> In addition to those items you mention, of which the reference count is not
> even *inside* the struct -- there is additional debugging information not
> mentioned.  Built in objects contain a "line number", a "column number", and
> a "context" pointer.  These each require a full word of storage.
>
> Also, built in types appear to have a "kind" field which indicates the
> object "type" but is not a pointer.  That suggests two "object" type
> indicators, a generic pointer (probably pointing to "builtin"? somewhere
> outside the struct) and a specific one (an enum) inside the "C" struct.
>
> Inside the tuple struct, I count 4 undocumented words of information.
> Over all, there is a length, the list of pointers, a "kind", "line", "col"
> and "context"; making 6 pieces in total.
>
> Although your comment says the head pointer is not required; I found in
> 3.3.0 that it is a true head pointer; The Tuple() function on line 2069 of
> Python-ast.c, (3.3 version) -- is passed in a pointer called *elts.  That
> pointer is copied into the Tuple struct.

As above, you're looking at the compiler code, which is why you're
finding things like "line" and "column".  The tuple struct is defined
in tupleobject.h and stores tuple elements in a tail array.

> How ironic,  slices don't have debugging info, that's the main reason they
> are smaller.
> When I do slice(3,0,2), suprisingly "Slice()" is NOT called.
> But when I do a[1:2:3] it *IS* called.

Because compiling the latter involves parsing slicing syntax, and
compiling the former does not. :-)


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 03:21:46 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 01:21:46 -0600
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <CALvWhxvJYfSatk7wg8zcBUHm5rHqeqqJss=N2vjCShGy9XoD5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CAPTjJmo3uK0Hfu4h78AkM6BPXXuU9sMuc74QeKFrW4jp54MGMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EC428.5080808@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALvWhxvJYfSatk7wg8zcBUHm5rHqeqqJss=N2vjCShGy9XoD5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=5xkJ-SjzvHDStdGSnwHV-u+_QjZJLNJ8+tAs_L0k-qA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 7:49 PM, Chris Kaynor <ckaynor at zindagigames.com> wrote:
> NOTE: The above is taken from reading the source code for Python 2.6.
> For some odd reason, I am getting that an empty tuple consists of 6
> pointer-sized objects (48 bytes on x64), rather than the expected 3
> pointer-sized (24 bytes on x64). Slices are showing up as the expected
> 5 pointer-sized (40 bytes on x64), and tuples grow at the expected 1
> pointer (8 bytes on x64) per item. I imagine I am missing something,
> but cannot figure out what that would be.

I'm likewise seeing 4 extra words in tuples in 32-bit Python 3.3.
What I've found is that for tuples and other collection objects, the
garbage collector tacks on an extra header before the object in
memory.  That header looks like this:

typedef union _gc_head {
    struct {
        union _gc_head *gc_next;
        union _gc_head *gc_prev;
        Py_ssize_t gc_refs;
    } gc;
    long double dummy;  /* force worst-case alignment */
} PyGC_Head;

gc_next and gc_prev implement a doubly-linked list that the garbage
collector uses to explicitly track this object.  gc_refs is used for
counting references during a garbage collection and stores the GC
state of the object otherwise.

I'm not entirely certain why collection objects get this special
treatment, but there you have it.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 03:32:44 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 01:32:44 -0600
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508F1C83.1080606@r3dsolutions.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CAPTjJmo3uK0Hfu4h78AkM6BPXXuU9sMuc74QeKFrW4jp54MGMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EC428.5080808@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALvWhxvJYfSatk7wg8zcBUHm5rHqeqqJss=N2vjCShGy9XoD5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<508F05AE.50607@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzidnSsg+HF7ZAG+rMg2pGEJMQBNLJKYXcXpFuE2p3MW1waQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<508F1C83.1080606@r3dsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidn5AsfzgRgpaV0paVqg4njuz7iGeD2R9uJCtN8eHsxciQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 6:17 PM, Andrew Robinson
<andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com> wrote:
> If you re-check my post to chris, I listed the struct you mention.
> The C code is what is actually run (by GDB breakpoint test) when a tuple is
> instantiated.

When you were running GDB, were you debugging the interactive
interpreter or a precompiled script?  The interactive interpreter does
a compilation step for every line entered.

> If the tuple were stripped of the extra data -- then it ought to be as small
> as slice().
> But it's not as small -- so either the sys.getsizeof() is lying -- or the
> struct you mention is not complete.

As just explained, the extra 16 bytes are added by the garbage collector.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 04:15:23 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 02:15:23 -0600
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508F1741.1070609@r3dsolutions.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3009.1351516065.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-F5462C.09525029102012@news.panix.com>
	<508E9EBA.2070307@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzidmn5YU6ztm5vbzA3gv30ggMLzKA8BK+YccswDGaOgj8mA@mail.gmail.com>
	<508F1741.1070609@r3dsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=DmAU8N30cc2AqgkXVwYrEM4C8t4bnEapdLEx_fOfPjA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 5:54 PM, Andrew Robinson
<andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com> wrote:
>> I don't know of a reason why one might need to use a negative start
>> with a positive stop, though.
>
> I've already given several examples; and another poster did too

I meant that I don't know of a reason to do that given the existing
semantics, which is what you were asking for.  :-)

I understand and agree that there are potential applications for
allowing slices to wrap around from negative to positive.  What I'm
not convinced of is that these applications need or should be handled
by the slicing operation -- which is more commonly understood as
producing subsequences -- especially since they already can be handled
relatively easily by iteration.  I think that more users would find
the behavior surprising than useful.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Oct 30 04:17:01 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 30 Oct 2012 08:17:01 GMT
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzid=rhea2aMXM_St2FwTiAx+cnZ20_H6RtwW0_81uSQAFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3053.1351550917.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508f1910$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3067.1351564823.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <508f8cfd$0$29884$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

By the way Andrew, the timestamps on your emails appear to be off, or 
possibly the time zone. Your posts are allegedly arriving before the 
posts you reply to, at least according to my news client.


On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 12:34:24 -0700, Andrew Robinson wrote:

> On 10/29/2012 05:02 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 08:42:39 -0700, Andrew Robinson wrote:
>>
>>>>> But, why can't I just overload the existing __getitem__ for lists
>>>>> and not bother writing an entire class?
>> You say that as if writing "an entire class" was a big complicated
>> effort. It isn't. It is trivially simple, a single line:
>>
>> class MyList(list):
>>      ...
> No, I don't think it big and complicated.  I do think it has timing
> implications which are undesirable because of how *much* slices are
> used. In an embedded target -- I have to optimize; and I will have to
> reject certain parts of Python to make it fit and run fast enough to be
> useful.

Then I look forward to seeing your profiling results that show that the 
overhead of subclassing list is the bottleneck in your application.

Until then, you are making the classic blunder of the premature optimizer:

"More computing sins are committed in the name of efficiency (without 
necessarily achieving it) than for any other single reason ? including 
blind stupidity." ? W.A. Wulf


I am not impressed by performance arguments when you have (apparently) 
neither identified the bottlenecks in your code, nor even measured the 
performance. You are essentially *guessing* where the bottlenecks are, 
and *hoping* that some suggested change will be an optimization rather 
than a pessimization.

Of course I may be wrong, and you have profiled your code and determined 
that the overhead of inheritance is a problem. If so, that's a different 
ball game. But your posts so far suggest to me that you're trying to 
predict performance optimizations rather than measure them.


>>>> You can just overload that one method in a subclass of list.  Being
>>>> able to monkey-patch __getitem__ for the list class itself would not
>>>> be advisable, as it would affect all list slicing anywhere in your
>>>> program and possibly lead to some unexpected behaviors.
>>> That's what I am curious about.
>>> What unexpected behaviors would a "monkey patch" typically cause?
>> What part of "unexpected" is unclear?
>>
> Ahh -- The I don't know approach!  It's only unexpected if one is a bad
> programmer...!

No, it is unexpected because once you start relying on monkey-patching, 
and the libraries you install are monkey-patching, you have a 
combinational explosion of interactions. Any piece of code, anywhere, 
could monkey-patch any other piece of code -- it is a form of action-at-a-
distance coding, like GOTOs and global variables. Use it with caution, in 
moderation.


>> Let me see if I can illustrate a flavour of the sort of things that can
>> happen if monkey-patching built-ins were allowed.
[...]
> Right, which means that people developing the libraries made
> contradictory assumptions.

Not necessarily. Not only can monkey-patches conflict, but they can 
combine in bad ways. It isn't just that Fred assumes X and Barney assumes 
not-X, but also that Fred assumes X and Barney assumes Y and *nobody* 
imagined that there was some interaction between X and Y.



[...]
>> Ruby allows monkey-patching of everything. And the result was
>> predictable:
>>
>> http://devblog.avdi.org/2008/02/23/why-monkeypatching-is-destroying-
ruby/
>>
>>
> I read that post carefully; and the author purposely notes that he is
> exaggerating.

Not carefully enough. He notes that he was using a provocative title and 
that he doesn't actually think that Ruby is being destroyed. But the 
actual harm he describes is real, e.g. bugs that take months to track 
down.


> What you are talking about is namespace preservation; 

I haven't mentioned namespaces. Nothing I have said has anything to do 
with namespaces. I remember Apple monkey-patching routines in ROM back in 
the mid 1980s, long before there was anything corresponding to namespaces 
in Apple's programming model. 


> and I am thinking
> about it. I can preserve it -- but only if I disallow true Python
> primitives in my own interpreter; I can't provide two sets in the memory
> footprint I am using.

If you want to write a language that is not Python, go right ahead.


> If someone had a clear explanation of the disadvantages of allowing an
> iterator, or a tuple -- in place of a slice() -- I would have no qualms
> dropping the subject.  However, I am not finding that yet.  I am finding
> very small optimization issues...

Python has certain public interfaces. If your language does not support 
those public interfaces, then it might be an awesome language, but it is 
not Python.

Python slices have certain features:

* they can be used repeatedly;

* they have public attributes start, step and stop;

* The stop attribute can be None, and the slice will default to the
  length of the thing being sliced, which is not known until call-time.

* Slices have a public indices method.

These are known characteristics of slices, and there is Python code that 
relies on it. If your language does not support these, then it is not 
Python.

Iterators cannot replace slices, because once you have looked up an 
iterator value, that value is gone, never to be seen again.

Tuples cannot replace slices, because tuples do not have start, step and 
stop attributes; most tuples have no need of them, and if you care about 
memory footprint, the last thing you want is to give every tuple three 
unused or meaningless named attributes. Besides, what values should they 
take in an empty tuple?

xrange cannot replaces slices, because there is no way to create an xrange 
object with an empty or missing end; besides, xrange objects have no 
public start/stop/step attributes.

And none of them have a public indices method.


> The actual *need* for a slice() object still hasn't been demonsrated.

Hell, the actual *need* for slicing hasn't been demonstrated! Or Python! 
Since C doesn't have slicing, nobody needs it! Am I right?

Needed or not, that is what Python has, so if your language doesn't have 
it, it isn't Python.



> I
> am thinking that the implementation of __getitem__() is very poor
> probably because of legacy issues.

You haven't demonstrated that it is very poor.


> A tuple can also hold None, so ( 1, None, 2 ) is still a valid Tuple.

Sure. And a tuple can also be () or (1, "x", [], None, None, None, None). 
Now your list.__getitem__ code has to deal with those instead.


> Alternately:  An iterator, like xrange(), could be made which takes None
> as a parameter, or a special value like 'inf'. 

So you want to get rid of slices because you want to save every byte of 
memory you can, and your way to do that is to introduce a new, *heavier* 
type that does more than slices? 

Oh man, that's funny.


-- 
Steven


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 04:46:46 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 02:46:46 -0600
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid=5xkJ-SjzvHDStdGSnwHV-u+_QjZJLNJ8+tAs_L0k-qA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
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On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 1:21 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not entirely certain why collection objects get this special
> treatment, but there you have it.

Thinking about it some more, this makes sense.  The GC header is there
to support garbage collection for the object.  Atomic types like ints
do not need this header because they do not reference other objects
and so cannot be involved in reference cycles.  For those types,
reference counting is sufficient.  For types like collections that do
reference other objects, garbage collection is needed.

Expanding on this, I suspect it is actually a bug that slice objects
are not tracked by the garbage collector.  The following code appears
to result in a memory leak:

import gc
gc.disable()
while True:
    for i in range(100):
        l = []
        s = slice(l)
        l.append(s)
        del s, l
    _ = gc.collect()

Try running that and watch your Python memory usage climb and climb.
For contrast, replace the slice with a list and observe that memory
usage does *not* climb.  On each iteration, the code constructs a
reference cycle between a slice and a list.  It seems that because
slices are not tracked by the garbage collector, it is unable to break
these cycles.


From d at davea.name  Tue Oct 30 05:35:13 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 05:35:13 -0400
Subject: date and time comparison how to
In-Reply-To: <d6043deb-74d8-4c3a-9661-228ab7f17291@googlegroups.com>
References: <50e576ea-2ebe-4340-954e-6c23b5885680@googlegroups.com>
	<508F1973.2030907@digipen.edu>
	<mailman.3061.1351558251.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<6101355b-ae00-4482-96ee-ed60f5cb465f@googlegroups.com>
	<85ea1841-6849-4970-b08b-5c7bbb7bba14@googlegroups.com>
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	<d6043deb-74d8-4c3a-9661-228ab7f17291@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <508F9F51.7030403@davea.name>

On 10/30/2012 12:20 AM, noydb wrote:
> On Monday, October 29, 2012 11:11:55 PM UTC-4, Dave Angel wrote:
>> On 10/29/2012 10:13 PM, noydb wrote:
>>
>>> I guess I get there eventually!  
>>
>>> <snip>
>>
>>
> 
> okay, I see.
> But for the user supplied date... I'm not sure of the format just yet... testing with a string for now (actual date-date might be possible, tbd later), so like '10292012213000' (oct 29, 2012 9:30pm).  How would you get that input into a format to compare with dt above?
> 

See http://docs.python.org/2/library/datetime.html

There are a number of constructors for datetime.  For example,

now = datetime.datetime.now()

spec = datetime.strptime(datstring, format)

spec = datetime.datetime(year, month, day[, hour[, minute[, second[,
microsecond)

In each case, you have an optional tz for timezone.  Or if possible, use
utc versions of these functions to get "greenwich" times.  tz is one of
the biggest pains, and the quirks vary between operating systems and
filesystems.  If possible in your environment, use   utcnow,
utcfromtimestamp, etc.


-- 

DaveA


From icgwh at tagyourself.com  Tue Oct 30 06:38:28 2012
From: icgwh at tagyourself.com (icgwh at tagyourself.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 03:38:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: I need help installing pypng in Python 3.3
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3049.1351547648.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <c2254bc0-6dd6-4c4c-b73a-a89ebbe64c4c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3010.1351516779.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<b84c9cd0-cd89-42c4-8c3d-24a8bef56830@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3049.1351547648.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7da6c39d-987e-4f30-a2cb-e371d940677f@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 29, 2012 3:48:09 PM UTC+1, Andrew Robinson wrote:
> On 10/29/2012 06:39 AM, icgwh at tagyourself.com wrote:
> 
> > That's very kind of you but I don't think it would be particularly fitted to my needs. The program I'm trying to code creates an image as an 2D array of "pixels" which is defined by RGBA value. My program needs to access and modifies every component of every pixels in the image following a set of rules, kind of like the game of life, only more complex.
> 
> >
> 
> > In fact I only need a library to "push" this array of pixels in a displayable format for the GUI and in PNG format to write the image to disk. I don't need to do any fancy stuff with the image, just being able to display and write it.
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> Then, actually, what I am suggesting was *almost* perfect.
> 
> To do transparency, you need to write the portable any map (PAM) formation.
> 
> 
> 
> Simply print a text header to a file which says:
> 
> 
> 
> P7
> 
> WIDTH 10
> 
> HEIGHT 10
> 
> DEPTH 4
> 
> MAXVAL 255
> 
> TUPLTYPE RGB_ALPHA
> 
> ENDHDR
> 
> 
> 
> And then dump your 2D array to that same file.
> 
> A very quick example in 17 lines of code:
> 
> 
> 
> io = open( "anyname.pam","w")
> 
> x,y = 10,10
> 
> gray=(128,128,128,255) # R,G,B,A value
> 
> picture = [ [ gray ] * x ] * y # Make a blank gray canvas 2D array
> 
> 
> 
> # Do whatever you want to the 2D picture array here!
> 
> 
> 
> io.write( "P7\nWIDTH %d\nHEIGHT %d\nDEPTH 4\nMAXVAL 255\nTUPLTYPE 
> 
> RGB_ALPHA\nENDHDR\n" % (x,y) )
> 
> 
> 
> for yi in xrange( y ):
> 
>      for xi in xrange( x ):
> 
>          pixel = picture[yi][xi]
> 
>          io.write( chr(pixel[0]) ) # R value
> 
>          io.write( chr(pixel[1]) ) # G value
> 
>          io.write( chr(pixel[2]) ) # B value
> 
>          io.write( chr(pixel[3]) ) # A value
> 
>      io.flush()
> 
> 
> 
> io.close()
> 
> 
> 
> And that's it.  You may of course make this more efficient -- I'm just 
> 
> showing it this way for clarity.
> 
> Many programs can read PAM directly; but for those that can't you can 
> 
> use nettools, or imagemagick, to convert it to PNG.

That's really interesting! Thank you so much! Never heard of PAM before... I  will try that!


From icgwh at tagyourself.com  Tue Oct 30 06:38:28 2012
From: icgwh at tagyourself.com (icgwh at tagyourself.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 03:38:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: I need help installing pypng in Python 3.3
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3049.1351547648.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <c2254bc0-6dd6-4c4c-b73a-a89ebbe64c4c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3010.1351516779.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<b84c9cd0-cd89-42c4-8c3d-24a8bef56830@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3049.1351547648.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7da6c39d-987e-4f30-a2cb-e371d940677f@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, October 29, 2012 3:48:09 PM UTC+1, Andrew Robinson wrote:
> On 10/29/2012 06:39 AM, icgwh at tagyourself.com wrote:
> 
> > That's very kind of you but I don't think it would be particularly fitted to my needs. The program I'm trying to code creates an image as an 2D array of "pixels" which is defined by RGBA value. My program needs to access and modifies every component of every pixels in the image following a set of rules, kind of like the game of life, only more complex.
> 
> >
> 
> > In fact I only need a library to "push" this array of pixels in a displayable format for the GUI and in PNG format to write the image to disk. I don't need to do any fancy stuff with the image, just being able to display and write it.
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> Then, actually, what I am suggesting was *almost* perfect.
> 
> To do transparency, you need to write the portable any map (PAM) formation.
> 
> 
> 
> Simply print a text header to a file which says:
> 
> 
> 
> P7
> 
> WIDTH 10
> 
> HEIGHT 10
> 
> DEPTH 4
> 
> MAXVAL 255
> 
> TUPLTYPE RGB_ALPHA
> 
> ENDHDR
> 
> 
> 
> And then dump your 2D array to that same file.
> 
> A very quick example in 17 lines of code:
> 
> 
> 
> io = open( "anyname.pam","w")
> 
> x,y = 10,10
> 
> gray=(128,128,128,255) # R,G,B,A value
> 
> picture = [ [ gray ] * x ] * y # Make a blank gray canvas 2D array
> 
> 
> 
> # Do whatever you want to the 2D picture array here!
> 
> 
> 
> io.write( "P7\nWIDTH %d\nHEIGHT %d\nDEPTH 4\nMAXVAL 255\nTUPLTYPE 
> 
> RGB_ALPHA\nENDHDR\n" % (x,y) )
> 
> 
> 
> for yi in xrange( y ):
> 
>      for xi in xrange( x ):
> 
>          pixel = picture[yi][xi]
> 
>          io.write( chr(pixel[0]) ) # R value
> 
>          io.write( chr(pixel[1]) ) # G value
> 
>          io.write( chr(pixel[2]) ) # B value
> 
>          io.write( chr(pixel[3]) ) # A value
> 
>      io.flush()
> 
> 
> 
> io.close()
> 
> 
> 
> And that's it.  You may of course make this more efficient -- I'm just 
> 
> showing it this way for clarity.
> 
> Many programs can read PAM directly; but for those that can't you can 
> 
> use nettools, or imagemagick, to convert it to PNG.

That's really interesting! Thank you so much! Never heard of PAM before... I  will try that!


From jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de  Tue Oct 30 08:00:03 2012
From: jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: 30 Oct 2012 12:00:03 GMT
Subject: exec with partial globals
Message-ID: <af9tq3FnmkaU1@mid.dfncis.de>

Hi,

I'd like to give the user the ability to enter code which may only rebind
a given set of names but not all ones.
This does NOT work
A=1
B=2
Code=compile('A=7','','exec')
exec(Code,{'A':0})
print("I've got A={}".format(A)) # prints 1


How can 'filter' the gobal namespace such that modifying 'A' is allowed
but any attempt to modify 'B' should give an exception.


Many thanks for a hint,
Helmut.


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Tue Oct 30 08:25:33 2012
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 13:25:33 +0100
Subject: calling one staticmethod from another
Message-ID: <tit4m9-1ei.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Hi!

I can call a staticmethod f() of class C like "C.f()" or with an 
instance like "C().f()". Inside that staticmethod, I have neither the 
class (at least not the original one) nor do I have an instance, so I 
can't call a different staticmethod from the same class. The obvious 
solution is to make this a classmethod instead, with a mostly-unused 
"cls" parameter.

Am I missing something?

Uli


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 08:28:43 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 23:28:43 +1100
Subject: exec with partial globals
In-Reply-To: <af9tq3FnmkaU1@mid.dfncis.de>
References: <af9tq3FnmkaU1@mid.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoUzb--_V-2VLGToPz7KQwYG+0TMDfCwvTkcWek6EYa5w@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 11:00 PM, Helmut Jarausch
<jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to give the user the ability to enter code which may only rebind
> a given set of names but not all ones.
>
> How can 'filter' the gobal namespace such that modifying 'A' is allowed
> but any attempt to modify 'B' should give an exception.

I don't know of any way to do that _as such_, but you can simply
follow up the exec with direct retrieval from the globals.

>>> a=1; b=2
>>> code=compile("a=7",'','exec')
>>> ns={'a':0}
>>> exec(code,ns)
>>> a=ns["a"]

(Incidentally, it's normal to use lower case for most names, reserving
the leading uppercase letter for types/classes.)

The exec'd code gets its own namespace (defined by the dictionary,
same as you were doing - note that the 'a' inside that namespace has
nothing to do with the 'a' outside it), and then you explicitly fetch
the values you want.

A slightly more sophisticated example might include a list of shared
variables, for example:

shared = ['a']
outer = globals()
ns = {v:outer[v] for v in shared}
exec(code,ns);
for v in shared: outer[v]=ns[v]

Untested but should work. (Is there any way to directly apply filter()
to a dictionary? That's what I'm really looking for here.)

ChrisA


From d at davea.name  Tue Oct 30 08:33:38 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 08:33:38 -0400
Subject: exec with partial globals
In-Reply-To: <af9tq3FnmkaU1@mid.dfncis.de>
References: <af9tq3FnmkaU1@mid.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <508FC922.6040502@davea.name>

On 10/30/2012 08:00 AM, Helmut Jarausch wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to give the user the ability to enter code which may only rebind
> a given set of names but not all ones.
> This does NOT work
> A=1
> B=2
> Code=compile('A=7','','exec')
> exec(Code,{'A':0})
> print("I've got A={}".format(A)) # prints 1
>
>
> How can 'filter' the gobal namespace such that modifying 'A' is allowed
> but any attempt to modify 'B' should give an exception.
>
>
> Many thanks for a hint,
> Helmut.

A=1
B=2
Code=compile('A=7','','exec')
vars = {'A':A}
exec(Code, vars)
A = vars["A"]
print("I've got A={}".format(A)) # prints 1

That now prints "I've got A=7"

More generally, you could write a loop, copying globals into vars, and
another one, copying them back.

No idea what you're really after;  this is one of the more dangerous
things to try.

Although you can constrain the globals seen by the code, that code can
still use builtins, do imports, delete files, etc.

Further, if your user is clever enough, he can do:

Code=compile('A=7; print("howdy"); import __main__;
__main__.B=42','','exec')

What are you really trying to permit him to do?  Initialize some
variables for you?  How about an .ini file ?




-- 

DaveA



From jannidis at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 08:37:52 2012
From: jannidis at gmail.com (jannidis at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 05:37:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: problems with xml parsing (python 3.3)
In-Reply-To: <97d8de0d-3daa-49be-a91f-c65fc8a9019f@googlegroups.com>
References: <97d8de0d-3daa-49be-a91f-c65fc8a9019f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7bfc9cac-4c9a-4ee4-b654-609b4ee93fc2@googlegroups.com>

If someone comes across this posting with the same problem, the best answer seems to be: 
avoid Pythons  xml.etree.ElementTree and use this library instead: 
http://lxml.de/
It works like expected and supports xpath much better. 


From jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de  Tue Oct 30 08:57:30 2012
From: jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: 30 Oct 2012 12:57:30 GMT
Subject: exec with partial globals
References: <af9tq3FnmkaU1@mid.dfncis.de>
	<mailman.3087.1351600438.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <afa15qFnmkaU2@mid.dfncis.de>

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 08:33:38 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:

> On 10/30/2012 08:00 AM, Helmut Jarausch wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'd like to give the user the ability to enter code which may only rebind
>> a given set of names but not all ones.
>> This does NOT work
>> A=1
>> B=2
>> Code=compile('A=7','','exec')
>> exec(Code,{'A':0})
>> print("I've got A={}".format(A)) # prints 1
>>
>>
>> How can 'filter' the gobal namespace such that modifying 'A' is allowed
>> but any attempt to modify 'B' should give an exception.
>>
>>
>> Many thanks for a hint,
>> Helmut.
> 
> A=1
> B=2
> Code=compile('A=7','','exec')
> vars = {'A':A}
> exec(Code, vars)
> A = vars["A"]
> print("I've got A={}".format(A)) # prints 1
> 
> That now prints "I've got A=7"
> 
> More generally, you could write a loop, copying globals into vars, and
> another one, copying them back.
> 
> No idea what you're really after;  this is one of the more dangerous
> things to try.
> 
> Although you can constrain the globals seen by the code, that code can
> still use builtins, do imports, delete files, etc.
> 
> Further, if your user is clever enough, he can do:
> 
> Code=compile('A=7; print("howdy"); import __main__;
> __main__.B=42','','exec')
> 
> What are you really trying to permit him to do?  Initialize some
> variables for you?  How about an .ini file ?

Many thanks Chris, many thanks to Dave.

First, in my application only trusted people will use it.

Here my example. I'd like to update a spreadsheet by data given by another
spreadsheet. I like to allow to modify only certain columns of the first
spreadsheet. The update formula and possible conditions are entered at 
run time and the available fields are only known once the spreadsheets 
have been read.

Given spreadsheet  S (Source) and D (Destination) as objects (wrapping a 
dictionary) a possible (legal) input would be

D.price= D.price-S.discount

No other fields of 'D' should be modifiable.

Again, I don't need to take actions against a malicious user,
just take care about a typo or mistake

Thanks again,
Helmut.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 09:18:57 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 00:18:57 +1100
Subject: exec with partial globals
In-Reply-To: <afa15qFnmkaU2@mid.dfncis.de>
References: <af9tq3FnmkaU1@mid.dfncis.de>
	<mailman.3087.1351600438.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<afa15qFnmkaU2@mid.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqdAzcSYw1FGB1Y9+tXEWnADdymDz1z0JXJoOnLjmzbUQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 11:57 PM, Helmut Jarausch
<jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:
> Given spreadsheet  S (Source) and D (Destination) as objects (wrapping a
> dictionary) a possible (legal) input would be
>
> D.price= D.price-S.discount
>
> No other fields of 'D' should be modifiable.

That's a bit harder. What you're describing, using exec with specific
globals, would not be able to do this. You'd need to build a proxy
object that decides whether or not to pass on the change.

ChrisA


From d at davea.name  Tue Oct 30 09:39:09 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 09:39:09 -0400
Subject: exec with partial globals
In-Reply-To: <afa15qFnmkaU2@mid.dfncis.de>
References: <af9tq3FnmkaU1@mid.dfncis.de>
	<mailman.3087.1351600438.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<afa15qFnmkaU2@mid.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <508FD87D.6020502@davea.name>

On 10/30/2012 08:57 AM, Helmut Jarausch wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 08:33:38 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:
>
>> On 10/30/2012 08:00 AM, Helmut Jarausch wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'd like to give the user the ability to enter code which may only rebind
>>> a given set of names but not all ones.
>>> This does NOT work
>>> A=1
>>> B=2
>>> Code=compile('A=7','','exec')
>>> exec(Code,{'A':0})
>>> print("I've got A={}".format(A)) # prints 1
>>>
>>>
>>> How can 'filter' the gobal namespace such that modifying 'A' is allowed
>>> but any attempt to modify 'B' should give an exception.
>>>
>>>
>>> Many thanks for a hint,
>>> Helmut.
>> A=1
>> B=2
>> Code=compile('A=7','','exec')
>> vars = {'A':A}
>> exec(Code, vars)
>> A = vars["A"]
>> print("I've got A={}".format(A)) # prints 1
>>
>> That now prints "I've got A=7"
>>
>> More generally, you could write a loop, copying globals into vars, and
>> another one, copying them back.
>>
>> No idea what you're really after;  this is one of the more dangerous
>> things to try.
>>
>> Although you can constrain the globals seen by the code, that code can
>> still use builtins, do imports, delete files, etc.
>>
>> Further, if your user is clever enough, he can do:
>>
>> Code=compile('A=7; print("howdy"); import __main__;
>> __main__.B=42','','exec')
>>
>> What are you really trying to permit him to do?  Initialize some
>> variables for you?  How about an .ini file ?
> Many thanks Chris, many thanks to Dave.
>
> First, in my application only trusted people will use it.
>
> Here my example. I'd like to update a spreadsheet by data given by another
> spreadsheet. I like to allow to modify only certain columns of the first
> spreadsheet. The update formula and possible conditions are entered at 
> run time and the available fields are only known once the spreadsheets 
> have been read.
>
> Given spreadsheet  S (Source) and D (Destination) as objects (wrapping a 
> dictionary) a possible (legal) input would be
>
> D.price= D.price-S.discount
>
> No other fields of 'D' should be modifiable.
>
> Again, I don't need to take actions against a malicious user,
> just take care about a typo or mistake
>
> Thanks again,
> Helmut.
>

If the user will only be modifying fields of specific class instances,
then generate those instances with property wrappers around the readonly
attributes.

If the class were statically defined, you'd do something like:


class MyClass(object):
    def __init__(self, data1, data2, data3):
        self._data1 = data1
        self._data2 = data2
        self.data3 = data3   #this one is writable, directly

    @property
    def data1(self):     #this is readonly
        return self._data1

    @property
    def data2(self):    #this is readonly
         return self._data2

mysrc = MyClass(1,2,3)
mydest = MyClass(4,5,6)

print( mydest.data1, mydest.data2, mydest.data3, "\n")   #prints 4,5,6

vars = {"src": mysrc, "dest": mydest}

Code=compile('dest.data3=17','','exec')
exec(Code, vars)

print( mydest.data1, mydest.data2, mydest.data3, "\n")    #prints 4,5,17


Now, once you see how to do it statically, you can try to do it dynamically, deciding which attributes need property wrappers, and which ones are plain data.


-- 

DaveA



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Oct 30 09:41:05 2012
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 06:41:05 -0700
Subject: calling one staticmethod from another
In-Reply-To: <tit4m9-1ei.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <tit4m9-1ei.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <508FD8F1.7080102@stoneleaf.us>

Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> I can call a staticmethod f() of class C like "C.f()" or with an 
> instance like "C().f()". Inside that staticmethod, I have neither the 
> class (at least not the original one) nor do I have an instance, so I 
> can't call a different staticmethod from the same class. The obvious 
> solution is to make this a classmethod instead, with a mostly-unused 
> "cls" parameter.
> 
> Am I missing something?

class Spam():
     @staticmethod
     def green():
         print('on a train!')
     @staticmethod
     def question():
         print('would you, could you', end='')
         Spam.green()

It can be a pain if you change the class name, but it is certainly one way to do it.

~Ethan~


From d at davea.name  Tue Oct 30 09:47:59 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 09:47:59 -0400
Subject: calling one staticmethod from another
In-Reply-To: <tit4m9-1ei.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <tit4m9-1ei.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <508FDA8F.1070702@davea.name>

On 10/30/2012 08:25 AM, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I can call a staticmethod f() of class C like "C.f()" or with an
> instance like "C().f()". Inside that staticmethod, I have neither the
> class (at least not the original one) nor do I have an instance, so I
> can't call a different staticmethod from the same class. The obvious
> solution is to make this a classmethod instead, with a mostly-unused
> "cls" parameter.
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> Uli

I'd think the obvious solution is to move both the functions outside of
the class.  I haven't figured out the justification for staticmethod,
except for java or C++ converts.

But if you like the staticmethod for other reasons, why is it you can't
just use
      C.g()

?

-- 

DaveA



From warem2888 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 10:06:35 2012
From: warem2888 at gmail.com (Constantine)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 07:06:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: shannan is so good at giving head pt 22
Message-ID: <694b27fc-a08c-48af-a186-3cdf3676c2e1@googlegroups.com>


shannan is so good at giving head pt 22 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=shannan+is+so+good+at+giving+head+pt+22+site:ryurikpiroumita.blogspot.com&btnI=I%27m+Feeling+Lucky


From andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 10:15:09 2012
From: andrea.crotti.0 at gmail.com (andrea crotti)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:15:09 +0000
Subject: Nice solution wanted: Hide internal interfaces
In-Reply-To: <761032ae-6c92-4b80-b287-e158ece7582e@kt16g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <k6mb4k$5v3$1@news.albasani.net>
	<761032ae-6c92-4b80-b287-e158ece7582e@kt16g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAF_E5JZ9PSuA+=+sD5RmK6SWegVBSe8YU949GrN=-GGiRk578A@mail.gmail.com>

2012/10/30 alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com>:
> On Oct 30, 2:33 am, Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsdu... at gmx.de> wrote:
>> I'm currently looking for a good solution to the following problem: I
>> have two classes A and B, which interact with each other and which
>> interact with the user. Instances of B are always created by A.
>>
>> Now I want A to call some private methods of B and vice versa (i.e. what
>> C++ "friends" are), but I want to make it hard for the user to call
>> these private methods.
>
> One approach could be to only have the public interface on B, and then
> create a wrapper for B that provides the private interface:
>
>     class B:
>         def public_method(self):
>             pass
>
>     class B_Private:
>         def __init__(self, context):
>             self.context = context
>
>         def private_method(self):
>             # manipulate self.context
>
>     class A:
>         def __init__(self):
>             self.b = B()
>             self.b_private = B_Private(self.b)
>
>         def foo(self):
>             # call public method
>             self.b.public_method()
>
>             # call private method
>             self.b_private.private_method()
>
> It doesn't stop a user from accessing the private methods, but it does
> separate them so they have to *intentionally* choose to use them.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



Partly unrelated, but you could also define a clear API and expose it
through your __init__.py.

For example:
package/a.py:
class A: pass

package/b.py:
class B:pass

package/__init__.py
from a import A

so now doing "from package import" will only show A.

This doesn't work on the method-level, but it's useful to know and
commonly done in many projects..


In some projects they even use a file "api.py" to you have to
explicitly import

from package.api import ..
(which I think is overkill since __init__.py does the same)


From andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com  Tue Oct 30 10:21:02 2012
From: andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com (Andrew Robinson)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 07:21:02 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnsn=84j9t8JVgyUgKadigYccMfHo80veq0XBdtC3Sgww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CAPTjJmo3uK0Hfu4h78AkM6BPXXuU9sMuc74QeKFrW4jp54MGMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EC428.5080808@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALvWhxvJYfSatk7wg8zcBUHm5rHqeqqJss=N2vjCShGy9XoD5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=5xkJ-SjzvHDStdGSnwHV-u+_QjZJLNJ8+tAs_L0k-qA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=YUQt_PRMjA1rzFw=_0S+e7CxFfy3junuH_iD8+ypCQw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508FFCD6.3010305@stoneleaf.us>
	<CALwzidnsn=84j9t8JVgyUgKadigYccMfHo80veq0XBdtC3Sgww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508FE24E.1060501@r3dsolutions.com>

On 10/30/2012 11:02 AM, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Ethan Furman<ethan at stoneleaf.us>  wrote:
>> File a bug report?
> Looks like it's already been wontfixed back in 2006:
>
> http://bugs.python.org/issue1501180
Thanks, IAN, you've answered the first of my questions and have been a 
great help.
(And yes, I was debugging interactive mode... I took a nap after writing 
that post, as I realized I had reached my 1 really bad post for the day... )

I at least I finally know why Python chooses to implement slice() as a 
separate object from tuple; even if I don't like the implications.

I think there are three main consequences of the present implementation 
of slice():

1) The interpreter code size is made larger with no substantial 
improvement in functionality, which increases debugging effort.
2) No protection against perverted and surprising (are you surprised?! I 
am) memory operation exists.
3) There is memory savings associated with not having garbage collection 
overhead.

D'Apriano mentioned the named values, start, stop, step in a slice() 
which are an API and legacy issue;  These three names must also be 
stored in the interpreter someplace.  Since slice is defined at the "C" 
level as a struct, have you already found these names in the source code 
(hard-coded), or are they part of a .py file associated with the 
interface to the "C" code?



From andrew.mackeith at 3ds.com  Tue Oct 30 10:47:51 2012
From: andrew.mackeith at 3ds.com (andrew.mackeith at 3ds.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 07:47:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Float to String "%.7e" - diff between Python-2.6 and Python-2.7
Message-ID: <69712207-3e7c-4dc2-be36-9b1a94f34c24@googlegroups.com>

When formatting a float using the exponential format, the rounding is different in Python-2.6 and Python-2.7. See example below.
Is this intentional?

Is there any way of forcing the Python-2.6 behavior (for compatibility reasons when testing)?

>c:\python26\python
r:\asiData\abaObjects\lib>c:\python26\python
Python 2.6.5 (r265:79096, Mar 19 2010, 18:02:59) [MSC v.1500 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> x = [2.096732130e+02,2.096732140e+02,2.096732150e+02,2.096732151e+02,2.096732160+02]
>>> for a in x:
...     print ' %.9e    %.7e'%(a,a)
...
 2.096732130e+02    2.0967321e+02
 2.096732140e+02    2.0967321e+02
 2.096732150e+02    2.0967322e+02 <<<<<<<<
 2.096732151e+02    2.0967322e+02
 4.096732160e+00    4.0967322e+00
>>> for a in x:
...     print '%.9e   %.7e'%(-a,-a)
...
-2.096732130e+02   -2.0967321e+02
-2.096732140e+02   -2.0967321e+02
-2.096732150e+02   -2.0967322e+02 <<<<<<<<
-2.096732151e+02   -2.0967322e+02
-4.096732160e+00   -4.0967322e+00
>>> ^Z

>c:\python27\python
Python 2.7.3 (default, Apr 10 2012, 23:24:47) [MSC v.1500 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> x = [2.096732130e+02,2.096732140e+02,2.096732150e+02,2.096732151e+02,2.096732160+02]
>>> for a in x:
...     print ' %.9e    %.7e'%(a,a)
...
 2.096732130e+02    2.0967321e+02
 2.096732140e+02    2.0967321e+02
 2.096732150e+02    2.0967321e+02 <<<<<<<<
 2.096732151e+02    2.0967322e+02
 4.096732160e+00    4.0967322e+00
>>> for a in x:
...     print '%.9e   %.7e'%(-a,-a)
...
-2.096732130e+02   -2.0967321e+02
-2.096732140e+02   -2.0967321e+02
-2.096732150e+02   -2.0967321e+02 <<<<<<<<
-2.096732151e+02   -2.0967322e+02
-4.096732160e+00   -4.0967322e+00
>>> ^Z

>
Andrew MacKeith


From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Tue Oct 30 10:47:52 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:47:52 +0000
Subject: how to change os.popen4 to subprocess
In-Reply-To: <ea712e7b-bad9-4763-bbae-22a824f07256@qi8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <c6bac1cc-abda-4d95-b3b4-e96dc7ab7a3a@r8g2000pbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2928.1351306928.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<ea712e7b-bad9-4763-bbae-22a824f07256@qi8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF47416749698@SBECMX007.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Replying to skyworld because I could not find the original message
from MRAB.

skyworld wrote:
> On Oct 27, 11:02?am, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> > On 2012-10-27 03:28, skyworld wrote:> Hi,
> >
> > > I'm new to python and I'm trying to porting some scripts from v0.96 to
> > > v2.0.1. A piece of code is like this:
> >
> > > cmd_h = os.popen4(env['SYSCMDLINE'])[1]
> >
> > > the system indicates the popen4 is deprecated and suggest to use
> > > subprocess. Can anybody tell me how to use subprocess in this case?
> > > and what does "[1]" here means?
> >
> > os.popen4 returns a tuple of (child_stdin, child_stdout_and_stderr).
> > The [1] gets the child_stdout_and_stderr member.
> >
> > Using the subprocess module:
> >
> > # Untested!
> > cmd_h = subprocess.Popen(env['SYSCMDLINE'], stdout=subprocess.PIPE,
> > stderr=subprocess.STDOUT, shell=True).stdout
> >
> > Explanation:
> >
> > The command line: env['SYSCMDLINE']
> >
> > Return stdout: stdout=subprocess.PIPE
> >
> > stderr should be combined with stdout: stderr=subprocess.STDOUT
> >
> > Let the shell parse the command line: shell=True
> 
> thanks
> --

I thought the usage of shell=True is usually discouraged? The 
subprocess documentation[0] should be helpful to figure it out.
"""
Warning: Invoking the system shell with shell=True can be a security 
hazard if combined with untrusted input. See the warning under 
Frequently Used Arguments for details.
"""

[0] http://docs.python.org/2/library/subprocess.html 


Ramit


This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Oct 30 11:10:54 2012
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 30 Oct 2012 15:10:54 GMT
Subject: Float to String "%.7e" - diff between Python-2.6 and Python-2.7
References: <69712207-3e7c-4dc2-be36-9b1a94f34c24@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <XnsA0FC99B481339duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

andrew.mackeith at 3ds.com wrote:

> When formatting a float using the exponential format, the rounding is
> different in Python-2.6 and Python-2.7. See example below. Is this
> intentional? 
> 
> Is there any way of forcing the Python-2.6 behavior (for compatibility
> reasons when testing)? 
> 
It isn't Python 2.6 behaviour, it looks more like a bug in your particular 
version of 2.6. This one matches what you are seeing on 2.7:

[dbooth at localhost ~]$ /opt/local/bin/python2.6
Python 2.6.7 (r267:88850, Jan  5 2012, 16:18:48)
[GCC 4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-51)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> x = [2.096732130e+02,2.096732140e+02,2.096732150e+02,2.096732151e+
02,2.096732160+02]
>>> for a in x:
...   print ' %.9e    %.7e'%(a,a)
...
 2.096732130e+02    2.0967321e+02
 2.096732140e+02    2.0967321e+02
 2.096732150e+02    2.0967321e+02
 2.096732151e+02    2.0967322e+02
 4.096732160e+00    4.0967322e+00

Note that the rounding shown here is correct; the actual value is slightly 
less than 5 in the last place:

[dbooth at localhost ~]$ /opt/local/bin/python2.6 -c "print('%.20e'%
2.096732150e+02,'%.7e'%2.096732150e+02)"
('2.09673214999999999009e+02', '2.0967321e+02')

What do you get printing the value on 2.6 with a '%.20e' format? I seem to 
remember that 2.7 rewrote float parsing because previously it was buggy.

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From d at davea.name  Tue Oct 30 11:13:53 2012
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 11:13:53 -0400
Subject: Float to String "%.7e" - diff between Python-2.6 and Python-2.7
In-Reply-To: <69712207-3e7c-4dc2-be36-9b1a94f34c24@googlegroups.com>
References: <69712207-3e7c-4dc2-be36-9b1a94f34c24@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <508FEEB1.8080804@davea.name>

On 10/30/2012 10:47 AM, andrew.mackeith at 3ds.com wrote:
> When formatting a float using the exponential format, the rounding is different in Python-2.6 and Python-2.7. See example below.
> Is this intentional?
>
> Is there any way of forcing the Python-2.6 behavior (for compatibility reasons when testing)?
>
>> c:\python26\python
> r:\asiData\abaObjects\lib>c:\python26\python
> Python 2.6.5 (r265:79096, Mar 19 2010, 18:02:59) [MSC v.1500 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> x = [2.096732130e+02,2.096732140e+02,2.096732150e+02,2.096732151e+02,2.096732160+02]
>>>> for a in x:
> ...     print ' %.9e    %.7e'%(a,a)
> ...
>  2.096732130e+02    2.0967321e+02
>  2.096732140e+02    2.0967321e+02
>  2.096732150e+02    2.0967322e+02 <<<<<<<<
>  2.096732151e+02    2.0967322e+02
>  4.096732160e+00    4.0967322e+00
>

Looks to me that the indicated value was rounded wrong in 2.6, so
apparently that was fixed in 2.7

The actual binary fp value stored for 2.096732150 e+02 is slightly
smaller than the decimal string specified, so it'll round towards
1.0967321 when you specify 7 digits.

I don't know of any way to re-introduce the earlier version.  But you
could fix them both by using Decimal, where there's no quantization
error.  Or if this is a fake example, adapt by just validating that the
results are 'close'

-- 

DaveA



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 11:27:20 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 09:27:20 -0600
Subject: calling one staticmethod from another
In-Reply-To: <508FD8F1.7080102@stoneleaf.us>
References: <tit4m9-1ei.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<508FD8F1.7080102@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnCVQSDdnLz8FeNmwiMDG15qYvyh7hEOWroh583X6Gndw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 7:41 AM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
> class Spam():
>     @staticmethod
>     def green():
>         print('on a train!')
>     @staticmethod
>     def question():
>         print('would you, could you', end='')
>         Spam.green()
>
> It can be a pain if you change the class name, but it is certainly one way
> to do it.

It fails if the staticmethod being called has been overridden in a
subclass, though.  I think the only correct way to do it with
inheritance is by replacing it with a classmethod, as the OP
suggested.


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Tue Oct 30 11:39:49 2012
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:39:49 +0100
Subject: calling one staticmethod from another
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3091.1351604905.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <tit4m9-1ei.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<mailman.3091.1351604905.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6v85m9-17j.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 30.10.2012 14:47, schrieb Dave Angel:
> I'd think the obvious solution is to move both the functions outside of
> the class.  I haven't figured out the justification for staticmethod,
> except for java or C++ converts.

Although I come from a C++ background, I think static functions have 
solid reasons that are not just based on my habits. When I see a static 
function in C++, I know that it is a function, not a method, so the only 
context it could interact with is also static (inside a namespace, 
including the global namespace or statically inside the class) or passed 
as parameters. Further, the function itself is inside a class (possibly 
even private), so it should only be of interest in the context of that 
class or instances thereof and doesn't collide with other functions.

In summary, putting utility code into a function reduces the context it 
interacts with. Putting that utility function as staticmethod inside a 
class further reduces the context of that function. Together, this also 
reduces the complexity of the code, making it easier to write and read.


> But if you like the staticmethod for other reasons, why is it you can't
> just use
>        C.g()
> ?

This works. It's just that I find it a bit inconvenient/ugly to repeat 
the classname inside a class. But hey, coming from C++ I have gotten 
used to always writing "self." to call one member function from another, 
so I'll probably survive this one, too. ;)


Greetings!

Uli



From andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com  Tue Oct 30 11:47:25 2012
From: andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com (Andrew Robinson)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 08:47:25 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508f8cfd$0$29884$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzid=rhea2aMXM_St2FwTiAx+cnZ20_H6RtwW0_81uSQAFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3053.1351550917.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508f1910$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3067.1351564823.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508f8cfd$0$29884$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <508FF68D.6010307@r3dsolutions.com>

On 10/30/2012 01:17 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> By the way Andrew, the timestamps on your emails appear to be off, or
> possibly the time zone. Your posts are allegedly arriving before the
> posts you reply to, at least according to my news client.
:D -- yes, I know about that problem.  Every time I reboot it shows up 
again...
It's a distribution issue, my hardware clock is in local time -- but 
when the clock is read by different scripts in my distribution, some 
refuse to accept that the system clock is not UTC.
I'll be upgrading in a few weeks -- so I'm just limping along until 
then. My apology.

> Then I look forward to seeing your profiling results that show that the
> overhead of subclassing list is the bottleneck in your application.
>
> Until then, you are making the classic blunder of the premature optimizer:
>
> "More computing sins are committed in the name of efficiency (without
> necessarily achieving it) than for any other single reason ? including
> blind stupidity." ? W.A. Wulf

I'm sure that's true.  Optimization, though, is a very general word.

On a highway in my neighborhood -- the government keeps trying to put 
more safety restrictions on it, because it statistically registers as 
the "highest accident rate road" in the *entire* region.

Naturally, the government assumes that people in my neighborhood are 
worse drivers than usual and need to be policed more -- but the truth 
is, that highway is the *ONLY* access road in the region for dozens of 
miles in any direction for a densely populated area, so if there is 
going to be an accident it will happen there; the extra safety 
precautions are not necessary when the accident rate is looked at from a 
per-capita perspective of those driving the highway.

I haven't made *the* blunder of the premature optimizer because I 
haven't implemented anything yet.  Premature optimizers don't bother to 
hold public conversation and take correction.
OTOH:  people who don't ever optimize out of fear, pay an increasing 
bloat price with time.

> I am not impressed by performance arguments when you have (apparently)
> neither identified the bottlenecks in your code, nor even measured the
> performance.
Someone else already did a benchmark between a discrete loop and a slice 
operation.
The difference in speed was an order of magnitude different.
I bench-marked a map operation, which was *much* better -- but also 
still very slow in comparison.

Let's not confound an issue here -- I am going to implement the python 
interpreter; and am not bound by optimization considerations of the 
present python interpreter -- There are things I can do which as a 
python programmer -- you can't.  I have no choice but to re-implement 
and optimize the interpreter -- the question is merely how to go about it.

>   You are essentially *guessing* where the bottlenecks are,
> and *hoping* that some suggested change will be an optimization rather
> than a pessimization.
>
> Of course I may be wrong, and you have profiled your code and determined
> that the overhead of inheritance is a problem. If so, that's a different
> ball game. But your posts so far suggest to me that you're trying to
> predict performance optimizations rather than measure them.
Not really; Inheritance itself and it's timing aren't my main concern.  
Even if the time was *0* that wouldn't change my mind.

There are man hours in debugging time caused by not being able to wrap 
around in a slice. (I am not ignoring the contrary man hours of an API 
change's bugs).

Human psychology is important; and it's a double edged sword.

I would refer you to a book written by Steve Maguire, Writing Solid 
Code; Chapter 5; Candy machine interfaces.

He uses the "C" function "realloc()" as an excellent example of a bad 
API; but still comments on one need that it *does* fulfill -- "I've 
found it better to have one function that both shrinks and expands 
blocks so that I don't have to write *ifs* constructs every time I need 
to resize memory.  True, I give up some extra argument checking, but 
this is offset by the *ifs* that I no longer need to write (*and 
possibly mess up*).

* Extra steps that a programmer must take to achieve a task are places 
where bugs get introduced.

* API's which must be debugged to see what particular operation it is 
performing rather than knowing what that operation is from looking at 
the un-compiled code are places where bugs get introduced.

These two points are not friendly with each other -- they are in fact, 
generally in conflict.
>> Right, which means that people developing the libraries made
>> contradictory assumptions.
> Not necessarily. Not only can monkey-patches conflict, but they can
> combine in bad ways. It isn't just that Fred assumes X and Barney assumes
> not-X, but also that Fred assumes X and Barney assumes Y and *nobody*
> imagined that there was some interaction between X and Y.
They *STILL* made contradictory assumptions; each of them assumed the 
interaction mechanism would not be applied in a certain way -- and then 
used it based on that assumption.
> Not carefully enough. He notes that he was using a provocative title and
> that he doesn't actually think that Ruby is being destroyed. But the
> actual harm he describes is real, e.g. bugs that take months to track
> down.
Yes.  I read that *carefully*.
BTW:  I'm not planning on monkey patching -- I did say your comments 
were well taken.

>> What you are talking about is namespace preservation;
> I haven't mentioned namespaces. Nothing I have said has anything to do
> with namespaces.
keywords are a namespace.  xrange is a keyword, etc.
You don't want pre-defined API method name to have its operation 
altered; you want the original names preserved. Overloading pollutes 
namespaces, etc.

> If you want to write a language that is not Python, go right ahead.

That's not the only possibility.  It will still be called Python and for 
good reason.

>
>> If someone had a clear explanation of the disadvantages of allowing an
>> iterator, or a tuple -- in place of a slice() -- I would have no qualms
>> dropping the subject.  However, I am not finding that yet.  I am finding
>> very small optimization issues...
> Python has certain public interfaces. If your language does not support
> those public interfaces, then it might be an awesome language, but it is
> not Python.
I didn't say I wouldn't support it.  How do you mean this?

> Iterators cannot replace slices, because once you have looked up an
> iterator value, that value is gone, never to be seen again.
Yes they can replace slices, but not always.
For example;  Lets say an iterator were allowed to replace a slice;

then a[ 1:3 ] would still be a slice, but a[ xrange(1,3) ] would not.
The second piece of code does not deny that slices exist, it just allows 
an iterator to be passed to __getitems__.

> Tuples cannot replace slices, because tuples do not have start, step and
> stop attributes;
I refer you to my comments to IAN.

>
> And none of them have a public indices method.
Hmm.. a new point.  Do you have a link?
>
>> The actual *need* for a slice() object still hasn't been demonsrated.
> Hell, the actual *need* for slicing hasn't been demonstrated! Or Python!
> Since C doesn't have slicing, nobody needs it! Am I right?
I asked about the need for slices() not the others, in the OP.
Thanks for your comments on the names, etc.  That's helpful -- and I 
hope I haven't driven your blood pressure up too much unintentionally.

> Needed or not, that is what Python has, so if your language doesn't have
> it, it isn't Python.
Fine.  But if mine still has these, but only as an *optional* wrapper 
function -- it still *RUNS* all python progams.

> Sure. And a tuple can also be () or (1, "x", [], None, None, None, None).
> Now your list.__getitem__ code has to deal with those instead.
>
And the present __getitem__ can be passed a perverted slice() as IAN 
demonstrated and the bug-list examined as "goofy".  These strange things 
simply cause an exception.

> So you want to get rid of slices because you want to save every byte 
> of memory you can, and your way to do that is to introduce a new, 
> *heavier* type that does more than slices? Oh man, that's funny.

I'm not Introducing a new type !
Besides; tuples will likely be lighter on memory in my target and I 
don't recall saying a tuple does more than slices.  I did say that 
*iterators* were more *flexible* -- is that what you are thinking of?



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 12:22:15 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 09:22:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Immutability and Python
References: <mailman.3018.1351524004.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <526d3d06-f9b8-49b3-a0e8-f18ac3b6488e@ah9g2000pbd.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 29, 8:20?pm, andrea crotti <andrea.crott... at gmail.com> wrote:
<snipped>
> Any comments about this? What do you prefer and why?

Im not sure how what the 'prefer' is about -- your specific num
wrapper or is it about the general question of choosing mutable or
immutable types?

If the latter I would suggest you read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Stepanov#Criticism_of_OOP

[And remember that Stepanov is the author of C++ STL, he is arguably
as important in the C++ world as Stroustrup]


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Oct 30 13:23:25 2012
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 18:23:25 +0100 (CET)
Subject: calling one staticmethod from another
In-Reply-To: <508FDA8F.1070702@davea.name>
Message-ID: <472414273.4109388.1351617805560.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>



----- Original Message -----
[snip]
> I haven't figured out the justification for staticmethod,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namespace
+
"Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!"

Someone may successfully use only modules as namespaces, but classes can be used as well. It's up to you.

Cheers,

JM


-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: 

The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.

From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 14:02:18 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 12:02:18 -0600
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508FFCD6.3010305@stoneleaf.us>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CAPTjJmo3uK0Hfu4h78AkM6BPXXuU9sMuc74QeKFrW4jp54MGMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EC428.5080808@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALvWhxvJYfSatk7wg8zcBUHm5rHqeqqJss=N2vjCShGy9XoD5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=5xkJ-SjzvHDStdGSnwHV-u+_QjZJLNJ8+tAs_L0k-qA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=YUQt_PRMjA1rzFw=_0S+e7CxFfy3junuH_iD8+ypCQw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508FFCD6.3010305@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnsn=84j9t8JVgyUgKadigYccMfHo80veq0XBdtC3Sgww@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
> File a bug report?

Looks like it's already been wontfixed back in 2006:

http://bugs.python.org/issue1501180


From j.j.molenaar at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 16:32:26 2012
From: j.j.molenaar at gmail.com (Joost Molenaar)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 21:32:26 +0100
Subject: Splitting large packages with distutils
Message-ID: <CAG07R1Cf-nAbXH53Jy_7314xE-yFeJY_8dstuSdkuQti_Mm8Og@mail.gmail.com>

Hello list,

suppose I have three packages like this:

ingredients-base/
    ingredients/
        __init__.py
    setup.py   <-- this one only references package ingredients

ingredients-spam/
    ingredients/
        __init__.py
        spam/
            __init__.py
            recipe.py
    setup.py   <-- this one only references package ingredients.spam

ingredients-eggs/
    ingredients/
        __init__.py
        eggs/
            __init__.py
            recipe.py
    setup.py   <-- this one only references package ingredients.eggs

Now I can install these like this:

virtualenv env
env/bin/pip install file:///path/to/ingredients-base
env/bin/pip install file:///path/to/ingredients-spam
env/bin/pip install file:///path/to/ingredients-eggs

Now I have one source tree with the packages ingredients, ingredients.spam
and ingredients.eggs all rolled into one, so that works OK.

But when I run pip uninstall for ingredients.spam, it also removes the
source files for ingredients and ingredients.eggs. That seems a bit wrong,
but maybe I'm using distutils/pip/setuptools the wrong way. I found out
that if I modify top_level.txt in each of the egg-info directories that are
installed so that they include the full package name, pip doesn't uninstall
all the code. (And I didn't see any bad effects on the sys.path.) But I
haven't found a non-hackish way to make top_level.txt contain the 'right'
package name, so I think I'm not supposed to touch it, or even know that
it's there.

I wasn't able to find much documentation on this top_level.txt file, but
what I found suggested that it's used for run-time conflict resolution, not
for package management. [1]

So my question is, how to make this scenario work? Just use different
top-level package names and install them side-by-side? Looking at big
projects such as Zope, Django or Twisted, they all seem to have gone the
non-distutils route.

Before anyone asks why I want this; I want to split up some framework-type
code and some utility-type code I have from some application-specific code,
and I hope that this way I'll be able to accurately specify and install the
dependencies between projects without running ever more risk of clashing
with a top-level module name. But I'm open to the suggestion that my idea
is totally misguided. :-)

Salutation,

Joost Molenaar

[1] http://svn.python.org/projects/sandbox/trunk/setuptools/doc/formats.txt
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From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 16:45:33 2012
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:45:33 -0400
Subject: Immutability and Python
References: <mailman.3018.1351524004.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<526d3d06-f9b8-49b3-a0e8-f18ac3b6488e@ah9g2000pbd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k6pe9b$10q$1@ger.gmane.org>

rusi wrote:

> On Oct 29, 8:20 pm, andrea crotti <andrea.crott... at gmail.com> wrote:
> <snipped>
>> Any comments about this? What do you prefer and why?
> 
> Im not sure how what the 'prefer' is about -- your specific num
> wrapper or is it about the general question of choosing mutable or
> immutable types?
> 
> If the latter I would suggest you read
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Stepanov#Criticism_of_OOP
> 
> [And remember that Stepanov is the author of C++ STL, he is arguably
> as important in the C++ world as Stroustrup]

The usual calls for immutability are not related to OO.  They have to do with 
optimization, and specifically with parallel processing.



From andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com  Tue Oct 30 17:00:00 2012
From: andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com (Andrew Robinson)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:00:00 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <k6pov2$skk$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzid=rhea2aMXM_St2FwTiAx+cnZ20_H6RtwW0_81uSQAFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3053.1351550917.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508f1910$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3067.1351564823.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508f8cfd$0$29884$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508FF68D.6010307@r3dsolutions.com> <k6pov2$skk$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <50903FD0.7060008@r3dsolutions.com>

On 10/30/2012 04:48 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 30/10/2012 15:47, Andrew Robinson wrote:
>>
>> I would refer you to a book written by Steve Maguire, Writing Solid
>> Code; Chapter 5; Candy machine interfaces.
>>
>
> The book that took a right hammering here 
> http://accu.org/index.php?module=bookreviews&func=search&rid=467 ?
>

Yes, although Chapter 5 is the one where the realloc() issue is discussed.
If you have a library, see if you can check the book out -- rather than 
spend $$$ on it.
But, in good humor --  Consider the only criticism the poster mentioned 
about chapter 5's contents.

    Occasionally, he presents a code fragment with a subtle bug, such as:

    p = realloc(p,n);

    _I have to admit that I didn't spot the bug_, but then I never use
    realloc, knowing it to have pitfalls. What is the bug? If realloc
    cannot allocate the memory, it returns NULL and the assignment means
    you lose your original pointer.

    What are the pitfalls? Realloc may or may not copy the data to a
    new, larger, area of memory and return the address of that: many
    programmers forget this and end up with pointers into the old,
    deallocated, area. Even those programmers who remember will likely
    fall into the trap that Maguire shows.

    _Back to 'clever' code though, he prefers_:


His critique is a bit like the scene in Monty Python's the Life of Br..an...
Where the aliens come, and crash, and leave -- and is totally irrelevant 
to what the plot-line is in the movie.  What does this comment have to 
do with a critique???  McGuire didn't fail to notice the bug!

But the critic doesn't even notice the main *pointS* the author was 
trying to make in that chapter.
There are, to be sure, recommendations that I don't agree with in the 
book;  He doesn't seem to do much Unit testing, postmortems, etc.  are 
all topics that I studied in a formal class on Software Engineering.  It 
was a wider perspective than McGuire brings to his book;

But that doesn't mean McGuire has nothing valuable to say!

A short Python Homage for readers of the linked Critique! :

I've had to follow GPL project style rules where the rule for a weird 
situation would be:
while (*condition) /* nothing */ ;   // and yes, this will sometimes 
generate a warning...!!!!

But, I have enough brains to take McGuire's *suggestion* to an improved 
Python conclusion.

#define PASS(x) {(void)NULL;}

while (*condition) PASS( Gas );  // There will be no warning!!!!

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From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Oct 30 17:21:33 2012
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:21:33 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508DEA9D.8040702@r3dsolutions.com>
References: <508DEA9D.8040702@r3dsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <509044DD.8060908@stoneleaf.us>

Andrew Robinson wrote:
> I can see that the slice() function can pass in arbitrary arguments.
> I'm not sure for lists, which is what the range is applied to, why an 
> argument like "a" would be part of a slice.

Well, in my dbf.py Record class you can use the names of fields as the slice arguments, instead of 
having to remember the offsets.  record['full_name':'zip4'] returns a tuple (or a list, I don't 
remember) of about 13 fields -- this is especially useful as that block of fields might not be in 
the same place in each table.

~Ethan~


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Oct 30 17:29:28 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 21:29:28 +0000
Subject: calling one staticmethod from another
In-Reply-To: <tit4m9-1ei.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <tit4m9-1ei.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <k6pgqu$o5r$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 30/10/2012 12:25, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I can call a staticmethod f() of class C like "C.f()" or with an
> instance like "C().f()". Inside that staticmethod, I have neither the
> class (at least not the original one) nor do I have an instance, so I
> can't call a different staticmethod from the same class. The obvious
> solution is to make this a classmethod instead, with a mostly-unused
> "cls" parameter.
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> Uli

I hope that you find these useful.

http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/python-is-not-java.html
http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/java-is-not-python-either.html

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Oct 30 17:33:32 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 21:33:32 +0000
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnsn=84j9t8JVgyUgKadigYccMfHo80veq0XBdtC3Sgww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CAPTjJmo3uK0Hfu4h78AkM6BPXXuU9sMuc74QeKFrW4jp54MGMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EC428.5080808@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALvWhxvJYfSatk7wg8zcBUHm5rHqeqqJss=N2vjCShGy9XoD5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=5xkJ-SjzvHDStdGSnwHV-u+_QjZJLNJ8+tAs_L0k-qA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=YUQt_PRMjA1rzFw=_0S+e7CxFfy3junuH_iD8+ypCQw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508FFCD6.3010305@stoneleaf.us>
	<CALwzidnsn=84j9t8JVgyUgKadigYccMfHo80veq0XBdtC3Sgww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k6ph2b$r30$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 30/10/2012 18:02, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
>> File a bug report?
>
> Looks like it's already been wontfixed back in 2006:
>
> http://bugs.python.org/issue1501180
>

Absolutely bloody typical, turned down because of an idiot.  Who the 
hell is Tim Peters anyway? :)

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 17:47:09 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 15:47:09 -0600
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <k6ph2b$r30$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CAPTjJmo3uK0Hfu4h78AkM6BPXXuU9sMuc74QeKFrW4jp54MGMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EC428.5080808@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALvWhxvJYfSatk7wg8zcBUHm5rHqeqqJss=N2vjCShGy9XoD5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=5xkJ-SjzvHDStdGSnwHV-u+_QjZJLNJ8+tAs_L0k-qA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=YUQt_PRMjA1rzFw=_0S+e7CxFfy3junuH_iD8+ypCQw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508FFCD6.3010305@stoneleaf.us>
	<CALwzidnsn=84j9t8JVgyUgKadigYccMfHo80veq0XBdtC3Sgww@mail.gmail.com>
	<k6ph2b$r30$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=d5Xm-tdCPcLwcw4V8=jdO_hhtZPKfy4q83PqVJgVgCQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 30/10/2012 18:02, Ian Kelly wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
>>>
>>> File a bug report?
>>
>>
>> Looks like it's already been wontfixed back in 2006:
>>
>> http://bugs.python.org/issue1501180
>>
>
> Absolutely bloody typical, turned down because of an idiot.  Who the hell is
> Tim Peters anyway? :)

I don't really disagree with him, anyway.  It is a rather obscure bug
-- is it worth increasing the memory footprint of slice objects by 80%
in order to fix it?


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 17:55:41 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 15:55:41 -0600
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508FE24E.1060501@r3dsolutions.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CAPTjJmo3uK0Hfu4h78AkM6BPXXuU9sMuc74QeKFrW4jp54MGMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EC428.5080808@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALvWhxvJYfSatk7wg8zcBUHm5rHqeqqJss=N2vjCShGy9XoD5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=5xkJ-SjzvHDStdGSnwHV-u+_QjZJLNJ8+tAs_L0k-qA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=YUQt_PRMjA1rzFw=_0S+e7CxFfy3junuH_iD8+ypCQw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508FFCD6.3010305@stoneleaf.us>
	<CALwzidnsn=84j9t8JVgyUgKadigYccMfHo80veq0XBdtC3Sgww@mail.gmail.com>
	<508FE24E.1060501@r3dsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidk-hAjcdPfr4dN0tuhCmH=k8esHPL4KT72DcCyaMQ5YGg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 8:21 AM, Andrew Robinson
<andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com> wrote:
> D'Apriano mentioned the named values, start, stop, step in a slice() which
> are an API and legacy issue;  These three names must also be stored in the
> interpreter someplace.  Since slice is defined at the "C" level as a struct,
> have you already found these names in the source code (hard-coded), or are
> they part of a .py file associated with the interface to the "C" code?

You mean the mapping of Python attribute names to C struct members?
That's in sliceobject.c:

static PyMemberDef slice_members[] = {
    {"start", T_OBJECT, offsetof(PySliceObject, start), READONLY},
    {"stop", T_OBJECT, offsetof(PySliceObject, stop), READONLY},
    {"step", T_OBJECT, offsetof(PySliceObject, step), READONLY},
    {0}
};


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 18:00:56 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 09:00:56 +1100
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid=d5Xm-tdCPcLwcw4V8=jdO_hhtZPKfy4q83PqVJgVgCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CAPTjJmo3uK0Hfu4h78AkM6BPXXuU9sMuc74QeKFrW4jp54MGMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EC428.5080808@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALvWhxvJYfSatk7wg8zcBUHm5rHqeqqJss=N2vjCShGy9XoD5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=5xkJ-SjzvHDStdGSnwHV-u+_QjZJLNJ8+tAs_L0k-qA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=YUQt_PRMjA1rzFw=_0S+e7CxFfy3junuH_iD8+ypCQw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508FFCD6.3010305@stoneleaf.us>
	<CALwzidnsn=84j9t8JVgyUgKadigYccMfHo80veq0XBdtC3Sgww@mail.gmail.com>
	<k6ph2b$r30$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CALwzid=d5Xm-tdCPcLwcw4V8=jdO_hhtZPKfy4q83PqVJgVgCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqqWWPski6cwJ9TnYgvSZNLZ19S=L18HiZ=bWApQAwWEQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 8:47 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 30/10/2012 18:02, Ian Kelly wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> File a bug report?
>>>
>>>
>>> Looks like it's already been wontfixed back in 2006:
>>>
>>> http://bugs.python.org/issue1501180
>>>
>>
>> Absolutely bloody typical, turned down because of an idiot.  Who the hell is
>> Tim Peters anyway? :)
>
> I don't really disagree with him, anyway.  It is a rather obscure bug
> -- is it worth increasing the memory footprint of slice objects by 80%
> in order to fix it?

Bug report: If I take this gun, aim it at my foot, and pull the
trigger, sometimes a hole appears in my foot.

This is hardly normal use of slice objects. And the penalty isn't a
serious one unless you're creating cycles repeatedly.

ChrisA


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 18:02:06 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:02:06 -0600
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidk-hAjcdPfr4dN0tuhCmH=k8esHPL4KT72DcCyaMQ5YGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CAPTjJmo3uK0Hfu4h78AkM6BPXXuU9sMuc74QeKFrW4jp54MGMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EC428.5080808@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALvWhxvJYfSatk7wg8zcBUHm5rHqeqqJss=N2vjCShGy9XoD5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=5xkJ-SjzvHDStdGSnwHV-u+_QjZJLNJ8+tAs_L0k-qA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=YUQt_PRMjA1rzFw=_0S+e7CxFfy3junuH_iD8+ypCQw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508FFCD6.3010305@stoneleaf.us>
	<CALwzidnsn=84j9t8JVgyUgKadigYccMfHo80veq0XBdtC3Sgww@mail.gmail.com>
	<508FE24E.1060501@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzidk-hAjcdPfr4dN0tuhCmH=k8esHPL4KT72DcCyaMQ5YGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkF+QHbDxdoHqinFgaX8DnLnds-uaCgQy4poH-4=6d+mw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 3:55 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 8:21 AM, Andrew Robinson
> <andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com> wrote:
>> D'Apriano mentioned the named values, start, stop, step in a slice() which
>> are an API and legacy issue;  These three names must also be stored in the
>> interpreter someplace.  Since slice is defined at the "C" level as a struct,
>> have you already found these names in the source code (hard-coded), or are
>> they part of a .py file associated with the interface to the "C" code?
>
> You mean the mapping of Python attribute names to C struct members?
> That's in sliceobject.c:
>
> static PyMemberDef slice_members[] = {
>     {"start", T_OBJECT, offsetof(PySliceObject, start), READONLY},
>     {"stop", T_OBJECT, offsetof(PySliceObject, stop), READONLY},
>     {"step", T_OBJECT, offsetof(PySliceObject, step), READONLY},
>     {0}
> };

Note that the slice API also includes the slice.indices method.

They also implement rich comparisons, but this appears to be done by
copying the data to tuples and comparing the tuples, which is actually
a bit ironic considering this discussion. :-)


From andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com  Tue Oct 30 18:25:54 2012
From: andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com (Andrew Robinson)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 15:25:54 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
Message-ID: <509053F2.6020900@r3dsolutions.com>

Ian,
> >  Looks like it's already been wontfixed back in 2006:
>
> >  http://bugs.python.org/issue1501180
>
> Absolutely bloody typical, turned down because of an idiot.  Who the hell is
> Tim Peters anyway?
> >  I don't really disagree with him, anyway.  It is a rather obscure bug
> >  -- is it worth increasing the memory footprint of slice objects by 80%
> >  in order to fix it?
:D

In either event, a *bug* does exist (at *least* 20% of the time.)  Tim 
Peters could have opened the *appropriate* bug complaint if he rejected 
the inappropriate one.

The API ought to have either 1) included the garbage collection, or 2) 
raised an exception anytime dangerous/leaky data was supplied to slice().

If it is worth getting rid of the 4 words of extra memory required for 
the GC -- on account of slice() refusing to support data with 
sub-objects; then I'd also point out that a very large percentage of the 
time, tuples also contain data (typically integers or floats,) which do 
not further sub-reference objects.  Hence, it would be worth it there too.

OTOH, if the GC is considered acceptable in non-sub-referenced tuples, 
GC ought to be acceptable in slice() as well.

Inconsistency is the mother of surprises; and code bloat through 
exceptions....

> Note that the slice API also includes the slice.indices method.
>
> They also implement rich comparisons, but this appears to be done by
> copying the data to tuples and comparing the tuples, which is actually
> a bit ironic considering this discussion.
Yes, indeed!
I didn't mention the slice.indicies method -- as it's purpose is 
traditionally to *directly* feed the parameters of xrange or range.  ( I 
thought that might start a WAR! ). :D

http://docs.python.org/release/2.3.5/whatsnew/section-slices.html

class FakeSeq:
     ...
	 return FakeSeq([self.calc_item(i) for i in_range(*indices)_])
         else:
             return self.calc_item(i)


And here I'm wondering why we can't just pass range into it directly... :(
------------------------------------

I came across some unexpected behavior in Python 3.2 when experimenting 
with ranges and replacement....

Consider, xrange is missing, BUT:
 >>> a=range(1,5,2)
 >>> a[1]
3
 >>> a[2]
5
 >>> a[1:2]
range(3, 5, 2)

Now, I wondered if it would still print the array or not; eg: if this 
was a __str__ issue vs. __repr__.

 >>> print( a[1:2] ) # Boy, I have to get used to the print's parenthesis
range(3, 5, 2)

So, the answer is *NOPE*.
I guess I need to read the doc's all over again... it's ... well, quite 
different.
--Andrew.

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From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Oct 30 19:30:59 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 23:30:59 +0000
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid=d5Xm-tdCPcLwcw4V8=jdO_hhtZPKfy4q83PqVJgVgCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CAPTjJmo3uK0Hfu4h78AkM6BPXXuU9sMuc74QeKFrW4jp54MGMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EC428.5080808@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALvWhxvJYfSatk7wg8zcBUHm5rHqeqqJss=N2vjCShGy9XoD5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=5xkJ-SjzvHDStdGSnwHV-u+_QjZJLNJ8+tAs_L0k-qA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=YUQt_PRMjA1rzFw=_0S+e7CxFfy3junuH_iD8+ypCQw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508FFCD6.3010305@stoneleaf.us>
	<CALwzidnsn=84j9t8JVgyUgKadigYccMfHo80veq0XBdtC3Sgww@mail.gmail.com>
	<k6ph2b$r30$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CALwzid=d5Xm-tdCPcLwcw4V8=jdO_hhtZPKfy4q83PqVJgVgCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k6pnv6$kl4$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 30/10/2012 21:47, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 30/10/2012 18:02, Ian Kelly wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> File a bug report?
>>>
>>>
>>> Looks like it's already been wontfixed back in 2006:
>>>
>>> http://bugs.python.org/issue1501180
>>>
>>
>> Absolutely bloody typical, turned down because of an idiot.  Who the hell is
>> Tim Peters anyway? :)
>
> I don't really disagree with him, anyway.  It is a rather obscure bug
> -- is it worth increasing the memory footprint of slice objects by 80%
> in order to fix it?
>

Thinking about it I entirely agree.  An 80% increase in memory foorprint 
where the slice objects are being used with Python 3.3.0 Unicode would 
have disastrous consequences given the dire state of said Unicode, which 
is why some regular contributors here are giving up with Python and 
using Go.

Oh gosh look at the time, I'm just going for a walk so I can talk with 
the Pixies at the bottom of my garden before they go night nights.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Oct 30 19:48:41 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 23:48:41 +0000
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508FF68D.6010307@r3dsolutions.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzid=rhea2aMXM_St2FwTiAx+cnZ20_H6RtwW0_81uSQAFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3053.1351550917.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508f1910$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3067.1351564823.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508f8cfd$0$29884$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508FF68D.6010307@r3dsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <k6pov2$skk$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 30/10/2012 15:47, Andrew Robinson wrote:
>
> I would refer you to a book written by Steve Maguire, Writing Solid
> Code; Chapter 5; Candy machine interfaces.
>

The book that took a right hammering here 
http://accu.org/index.php?module=bookreviews&func=search&rid=467 ?

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com  Tue Oct 30 20:14:42 2012
From: andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com (Andrew Robinson)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 17:14:42 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <5090B743.4080507@gmail.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzid=rhea2aMXM_St2FwTiAx+cnZ20_H6RtwW0_81uSQAFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3053.1351550917.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508f1910$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3067.1351564823.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508f8cfd$0$29884$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508FF68D.6010307@r3dsolutions.com> <5090B743.4080507@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50906D72.8000409@r3dsolutions.com>

On 10/30/2012 10:29 PM, Michael Torrie wrote:
> As this is the case, why this long discussion? If you are arguing for 
> a change in Python to make it compatible with what this fork you are 
> going to create will do, this has already been fairly thoroughly 
> addressed earl on, and reasons why the semantics will not change 
> anytime soon have been given. 

I'm not arguing for a change in the present release of Python; and I 
have never done so.
Historically, if a fork happens to produce something surprisingly 
_useful_; the main code bank eventually accepts it on their own.  If a 
fork is a mistake, it dies on its own.

That really is the way things ought to be done.

    include this
    The Zen of Python, by _Tim Peters_
    ....
    Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
    Although _practicality beats purity_.
    ....

Now, I have seen several coded projects where the idea of cyclic lists 
is PRACTICAL;
and the idea of iterating slices may be practical if they could be made 
*FASTER*.

These warrant looking into -- and carefully;  and that means making an 
experimental fork; preferably before I attempt to micro-port the python.

Regarding the continuing discussion:
The more I learn, the more informed decisions I can make regarding 
implementation.
I am almost fully understanding the questions I originally asked, now.

What remains are mostly questions about compatibility wrappers, and how 
to allow them to be used -- or selectively deleted when not necessary; 
and perhaps a demonstration or two about how slices and named tuples can 
(or can't) perform nearly the same function in slice processing.

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From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 23:21:19 2012
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (rusi)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 20:21:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Immutability and Python
References: <mailman.3018.1351524004.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<526d3d06-f9b8-49b3-a0e8-f18ac3b6488e@ah9g2000pbd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3101.1351629946.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2273c0f-ec84-441a-acdf-10f97d24b976@i7g2000pbf.googlegroups.com>

On Oct 31, 1:45?am, Neal Becker <ndbeck... at gmail.com> wrote:
> rusi wrote:
> > On Oct 29, 8:20 pm, andrea crotti <andrea.crott... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > <snipped>
> >> Any comments about this? What do you prefer and why?
>
> > Im not sure how what the 'prefer' is about -- your specific num
> > wrapper or is it about the general question of choosing mutable or
> > immutable types?
>
> > If the latter I would suggest you read
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Stepanov#Criticism_of_OOP
>
> > [And remember that Stepanov is the author of C++ STL, he is arguably
> > as important in the C++ world as Stroustrup]
>
> The usual calls for immutability are not related to OO. ?They have to do with
> optimization, and specifically with parallel processing.

>From the time of Backus' Turing award
http://www.thocp.net/biographies/papers/backus_turingaward_lecture.pdf
it is standard fare that
assignment = imperative programming (which he collectively and
polemically called the von Neumann bottleneck)
That what he decried as 'conventional programming languages' today
applies to OO languages; see
http://www.cs.tufts.edu/~nr/backus-lecture.html

A more modern viewpoint:

--------------
Object-oriented programming is eliminated entirely from the
introductory curriculum, because it is both anti-modular and anti-
parallel by its very nature, and hence unsuitable for a modern CS
curriculum.  A proposed new course on object-oriented design
methodology will be offered at the sophomore level for those students
who wish to study this topic.
----------------

from http://existentialtype.wordpress.com/2011/03/15/teaching-fp-to-freshmen/

Call it polemical if you like; noting that that's Carnegie Mellon.


From robertmiles at teranews.com  Wed Oct 31 01:07:03 2012
From: robertmiles at teranews.com (Robert Miles)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 00:07:03 -0500
Subject: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups
In-Reply-To: <87wqzum7h6.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
References: <fb821c53-c786-4795-8f57-70d2eede03fe@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.774.1347735926.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<52847c35-388c-4758-b72d-1d1859b788a3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.776.1347740899.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8370412f-5176-45ff-87eb-72cbca5149d5@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.781.1347774837.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cdf072b2-7359-4417-b1e4-d984e4317091@googlegroups.com>
	<5055a1a6$0$29981$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<4f9d9a0b-539a-4b6a-af3e-b02d1f4006ee@googlegroups.com>
	<87wqzum7h6.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <um2ks.4546$%z6.625@newsfe04.iad>

On 9/16/2012 8:18 AM, Ben Finney wrote:
> ???????? ?????? <nikos.gr33k at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Iam sorry i didnt do that on purpose and i dont know how this is done.
>>
>> Iam positng via google groups using chrome, thats all i know.
>
> It is becoming quite clear that some change has happened recently to
> Google Groups that makes posts coming from there rather more obnoxious
> than before. And there doesn't seem to be much its users can do except
> use something else.

You're probably referring to their change in the way they handle
end-of-lines, which is now incompatible with most newsreaders,
especially with multiple levels of quoting.

The incompatibility tends to insert a blank line after every line.
With multiple levels of quoting, this gives blank line groups that
often roughly double in size for every level of quoting.

Robert Miles



From robertmiles at teranews.com  Wed Oct 31 01:18:11 2012
From: robertmiles at teranews.com (Robert Miles)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 00:18:11 -0500
Subject: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups
In-Reply-To: <0f33d5ff-216e-4de3-8ae5-aad7fefe8bc9@googlegroups.com>
References: <fb821c53-c786-4795-8f57-70d2eede03fe@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.774.1347735926.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<52847c35-388c-4758-b72d-1d1859b788a3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.776.1347740899.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8370412f-5176-45ff-87eb-72cbca5149d5@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.781.1347774837.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cdf072b2-7359-4417-b1e4-d984e4317091@googlegroups.com>
	<5055a1a6$0$29981$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<4f9d9a0b-539a-4b6a-af3e-b02d1f4006ee@googlegroups.com>
	<87wqzum7h6.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
	<0f33d5ff-216e-4de3-8ae5-aad7fefe8bc9@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xw2ks.15972$2Q3.6809@newsfe25.iad>

On 9/16/2012 10:44 AM, pandora.koura at gmail.com wrote:
> Whaen i tried to post just now by hitting sumbit, google groups told me that the following addresssed has benn found in this thread! i guess is used them all to notify everything!
>
> cdf072b2-7359-4417-b1e4-d984e4317091 at googlegroups.com
> mailman.774.1347735926.27098.python-list at python.org
> nikos.gr33k at gmail.com

When you try to post anything to a newsgroup, they try
to use their method of preventing email spammers from
getting email addresses by complaining about any email
addresses that look like the could be valid.

If you want to make the post compatible with their
method, select the option to edit the post when they
offer it, and change the last three characters before
each @ in an email address to three periods (...).
The submit should then work.



From torriem at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 01:29:39 2012
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 23:29:39 -0600
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <508FF68D.6010307@r3dsolutions.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzid=rhea2aMXM_St2FwTiAx+cnZ20_H6RtwW0_81uSQAFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3053.1351550917.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508f1910$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.3067.1351564823.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<508f8cfd$0$29884$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508FF68D.6010307@r3dsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <5090B743.4080507@gmail.com>

On 10/30/2012 09:47 AM, Andrew Robinson wrote:
> Let's not confound an issue here -- I am going to implement the python 
> interpreter; and am not bound by optimization considerations of the 
> present python interpreter -- There are things I can do which as a 
> python programmer -- you can't.  I have no choice but to re-implement 
> and optimize the interpreter -- the question is merely how to go about it.

As this is the case, why this long discussion?  If you are arguing for a
change in Python to make it compatible with what this fork you are going
to create will do, this has already been fairly thoroughly addressed
earl on, and reasons why the semantics will not change anytime soon have
been given.


From robertmiles at teranews.com  Wed Oct 31 01:39:02 2012
From: robertmiles at teranews.com (Robert Miles)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 00:39:02 -0500
Subject: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups
In-Reply-To: <eb8a3b94-25b2-4d92-89d7-67451bf7666c@pz10g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <fb821c53-c786-4795-8f57-70d2eede03fe@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.774.1347735926.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<52847c35-388c-4758-b72d-1d1859b788a3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.776.1347740899.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8370412f-5176-45ff-87eb-72cbca5149d5@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.781.1347774837.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cdf072b2-7359-4417-b1e4-d984e4317091@googlegroups.com>
	<5055a1a6$0$29981$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<4f9d9a0b-539a-4b6a-af3e-b02d1f4006ee@googlegroups.com>
	<87wqzum7h6.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
	<6c732de0-b10f-4d40-853c-f62682970117@rg9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-F2E419.20555116092012@news.panix.com>
	<eb8a3b94-25b2-4d92-89d7-67451bf7666c@pz10g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <uQ2ks.15973$2Q3.3196@newsfe25.iad>

On 9/16/2012 8:14 PM, alex23 wrote:
> On Sep 17, 10:55 am, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
>> They didn't buy the service.  They bought the data.  Well, they really
>> bought both, but the data is all they wanted.
>
> I thought they'd taken most of the historical data offline now too?

Some of it, but they still had my newsgroups posts from 15 years ago
the last time I looked.

They appear to have taken most of any Fidonet data offline, though.

They appear to be taking some of the spam and other abuse offline
after it's reported by at least two people, but rather slowly and
not keeping up with the amount that's posted.

For those of you running Linux:  You may want to look into whether
NoCeM is compatible with your newsreader and your version of Linux.
It checks newsgroups news.lists.filters and alt.nocem.misc for lists
of spam posts, and will automatically hide them for you.  Not available
for other operating systems, though, except possibly Unix.

NoCeM
http://www.cm.org/nocem.html

bleachbot
http://home.httrack.net/~nocem/


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 03:43:56 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 01:43:56 -0600
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <509053F2.6020900@r3dsolutions.com>
References: <509053F2.6020900@r3dsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnQ2bUdMp8c0xNomabcLHZBBtr_DYSSzvhz3jqeYNkWkQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Andrew Robinson
<andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com> wrote:
> Ian,
>
>> Looks like it's already been wontfixed back in 2006:
>
>> http://bugs.python.org/issue1501180
>
> Absolutely bloody typical, turned down because of an idiot.  Who the hell is
> Tim Peters anyway?
>
>> I don't really disagree with him, anyway.  It is a rather obscure bug
>> -- is it worth increasing the memory footprint of slice objects by 80%
>> in order to fix it?
>
> :D
>
> In either event, a *bug* does exist (at *least* 20% of the time.)  Tim
> Peters could have opened the *appropriate* bug complaint if he rejected the
> inappropriate one.

Where are you getting that 20% figure from?  Reference cycles
involving slice objects would be extremely rare, certainly far less
than 20%.

> The API ought to have either 1) included the garbage collection, or 2)
> raised an exception anytime dangerous/leaky data was supplied to slice().

How would you propose detecting the latter?  At the time data is
supplied to slice() it cannot refer to the slice, as the slice does
not exist yet.  The cycle has to be created after.

> If it is worth getting rid of the 4 words of extra memory required for the
> GC -- on account of slice() refusing to support data with sub-objects; then
> I'd also point out that a very large percentage of the time, tuples also
> contain data (typically integers or floats,) which do not further
> sub-reference objects.  Hence, it would be worth it there too.

I disagree.  The proportion of the time that a tuple contains other
collection objects is *much* greater.  This happens regularly.  OTOH,
if I had to hazard a guess at the frequency with which non-atomic
objects are used in slices, it would be a fraction of a fraction of a
fraction of a percent.

> I came across some unexpected behavior in Python 3.2 when experimenting with
> ranges and replacement....
>
> Consider, xrange is missing, BUT:

More accurately, range is gone, and xrange has been renamed range.

>>>> a=range(1,5,2)
>>>> a[1]
> 3
>>>> a[2]
> 5
>>>> a[1:2]
> range(3, 5, 2)
>
> Now, I wondered if it would still print the array or not; eg: if this was a
> __str__ issue vs. __repr__.
>
>>>> print( a[1:2] ) # Boy, I have to get used to the print's parenthesis
> range(3, 5, 2)
>
> So, the answer is *NOPE*.

I'm not sure why you would expect it to print a list here, without an
explicit conversion.  The result of calling range in Python 3 is a
range object, not a list.


From ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com  Wed Oct 31 03:59:23 2012
From: ulrich.eckhardt at dominolaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 08:59:23 +0100
Subject: calling one staticmethod from another
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3099.1351625019.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.3099.1351625019.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <rb27m9-iln.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Am 30.10.2012 18:23, schrieb Jean-Michel Pichavant:
> ----- Original Message -----
> [snip]
>> I haven't figured out the justification for staticmethod,
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namespace
> +
> "Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!"
>
> Someone may successfully use only modules as namespaces, but classes
> can be used as well. It's up to you.

Indeed, see e.g. Steven D'Aprano's approach at formalizing that:

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/578279/


Greetings!

Uli



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Oct 31 06:07:36 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 31 Oct 2012 10:07:36 GMT
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CAPTjJmo3uK0Hfu4h78AkM6BPXXuU9sMuc74QeKFrW4jp54MGMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EC428.5080808@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALvWhxvJYfSatk7wg8zcBUHm5rHqeqqJss=N2vjCShGy9XoD5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=5xkJ-SjzvHDStdGSnwHV-u+_QjZJLNJ8+tAs_L0k-qA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=YUQt_PRMjA1rzFw=_0S+e7CxFfy3junuH_iD8+ypCQw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508FFCD6.3010305@stoneleaf.us>
	<CALwzidnsn=84j9t8JVgyUgKadigYccMfHo80veq0XBdtC3Sgww@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3105.1351632899.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5090f867$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 21:33:32 +0000, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> On 30/10/2012 18:02, Ian Kelly wrote:
>> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us>
>> wrote:
>>> File a bug report?
>>
>> Looks like it's already been wontfixed back in 2006:
>>
>> http://bugs.python.org/issue1501180
>>
>>
> Absolutely bloody typical, turned down because of an idiot.  Who the
> hell is Tim Peters anyway? :)

I see your smiley, but for the benefit of those who actually don't know 
who Tim Peters, a.k.a. the Timbot, is, he is one of the gurus of Python 
history. He invented Python's astonishingly excellent sort routine, 
Timsort, and popularised the famous adverbial phrase signoffs you will 
see in a lot of older posts.

Basically, he is in the pantheon of early Python demigods.


stop-me-before-i-start-gushing-over-the-timbot-ly y'rs,



-- 
Steven


From insideshoes at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 10:42:47 2012
From: insideshoes at gmail.com (inshu chauhan)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 15:42:47 +0100
Subject: working with yml files in python and opencv
Message-ID: <CAFqGZREJvizYer8kfn2TETx8Lr-iYv-q1rKLSfzT9UnoYY+kbA@mail.gmail.com>

How to load a yml file in python and work with it ??

I used : import cv
            data = cv.Load("Z:/data/xyz_00000_300.yml")

But when I print data.. it just gives the detail of the image like number
of rows and columns etc....
I want read what is there in the pixel of the image.. can somebody help..
thanx in advance !!!
-------------- next part --------------
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From invalid at invalid.invalid  Wed Oct 31 11:11:16 2012
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 15:11:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: datetime issue
References: <fb821c53-c786-4795-8f57-70d2eede03fe@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.774.1347735926.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<52847c35-388c-4758-b72d-1d1859b788a3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.776.1347740899.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8370412f-5176-45ff-87eb-72cbca5149d5@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.781.1347774837.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cdf072b2-7359-4417-b1e4-d984e4317091@googlegroups.com>
	<5055a1a6$0$29981$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<4f9d9a0b-539a-4b6a-af3e-b02d1f4006ee@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k6rf2k$2sd$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2012-09-16, ???????? ?????? <nikos.gr33k at gmail.com> wrote:

> Iam positng via google groups using chrome, thats all i know.

Learn something else.  Google Groups is seriously and permanently
broken, and all posts from Google Groups are filtered out and ignored
by many people (including myself -- I only saw this because somebody
else replied to it).

IMO, the best option is to point a newsreader an an NNTP server that
carries comp.lang.python (gname.org also provides an NNTP server that
gateways to the mailing list).  Pointing a newsreader at gmane's NNTP
server is also an excellent option.

If all you can do is run a browwer, then I suggest using gmane.org:

   http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general

> Whats a mailing list?

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_mailing_list
  http://www.python.org/community/lists/

The python mailing list is gatewayed to the Usenet newsgroup
comp.lang.python (which is where I read/post from):

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet

> Can i get responses to my mail instead of constantly check the google
> groups site?

Yes.  You can subscribe directly to the list (which means you'll
receive a _lot_ of e-mail every day).

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! If I felt any more
                                  at               SOPHISTICATED I would DIE
                              gmail.com            of EMBARRASSMENT!


From djc at kangoo.invalid  Wed Oct 31 11:17:14 2012
From: djc at kangoo.invalid (djc)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 15:17:14 +0000
Subject: sort order for strings of digits
Message-ID: <k6rfdu$rgn$1@news.albasani.net>

I learn lots of useful things from the list, some not always welcome. No 
sooner had I found a solution to a minor inconvenience in my code, than 
a recent thread here drew my attention to the fact that it will not work 
for python 3. So suggestions please:

     TODO 2012-10-22: sort order numbers first then alphanumeric
 >>> n
('1', '10', '101', '3', '40', '31', '13', '2', '2000')
 >>> s
('a', 'ab', 'acd', 'bcd', '1a', 'a1', '222 bb', 'b a 4')

 >>> sorted(n)
['1', '10', '101', '13', '2', '2000', '3', '31', '40']
 >>> sorted(s)
['1a', '222 bb', 'a', 'a1', 'ab', 'acd', 'b a 4', 'bcd']
 >>> sorted(n+s)
['1', '10', '101', '13', '1a', '2', '2000', '222 bb', '3', '31', '40', 
'a', 'a1', 'ab', 'acd', 'b a 4', 'bcd']



Possibly there is a better way but for Python 2.7 this gives the 
required result

Python 2.7.3 (default, Sep 26 2012, 21:51:14)

 >>> sorted(int(x) if x.isdigit() else x for x in n+s)
[1, 2, 3, 10, 13, 31, 40, 101, 2000, '1a', '222 bb', 'a', 'a1', 'ab', 
'acd', 'b a 4', 'bcd']


[str(x) for x in sorted(int(x) if x.isdigit() else x for x in n+s)]
['1', '2', '3', '10', '13', '31', '40', '101', '2000', '1a', '222 bb', 
'a', 'a1', 'ab', 'acd', 'b a 4', 'bcd']


But not for Python 3
Python 3.2.3 (default, Oct 19 2012, 19:53:16)

 >>> sorted(n+s)
['1', '10', '101', '13', '1a', '2', '2000', '222 bb', '3', '31', '40', 
'a', 'a1', 'ab', 'acd', 'b a 4', 'bcd']

 >>> sorted(int(x) if x.isdigit() else x for x in n+s)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: unorderable types: str() < int()
 >>>

The best I can think of is to split the input sequence into two lists, 
sort each and then join them.


-- 
djc



From hansmu at xs4all.nl  Wed Oct 31 11:31:46 2012
From: hansmu at xs4all.nl (Hans Mulder)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 16:31:46 +0100
Subject: sort order for strings of digits
In-Reply-To: <k6rfdu$rgn$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <k6rfdu$rgn$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <50914462$0$6982$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

On 31/10/12 16:17:14, djc wrote:
> Python 3.2.3 (default, Oct 19 2012, 19:53:16)
> 
>>>> sorted(n+s)
> ['1', '10', '101', '13', '1a', '2', '2000', '222 bb', '3', '31', '40',
> 'a', 'a1', 'ab', 'acd', 'b a 4', 'bcd']
> 
>>>> sorted(int(x) if x.isdigit() else x for x in n+s)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> TypeError: unorderable types: str() < int()
>>>>

>>> sorted(n+s, key=lambda x:(x.__class__.__name__, x))
['1', '10', '101', '13', '1a', '2', '2000', '222 bb', '3', '31', '40',
'a', 'a1', 'ab', 'acd', 'b a 4', 'bcd']
>>>

> The best I can think of is to split the input sequence into two lists,
> sort each and then join them.

That might well be the most readable solution.


Hope this helps,

-- HansM


From mdickinson at enthought.com  Wed Oct 31 11:39:53 2012
From: mdickinson at enthought.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 15:39:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Float to String 
References: <69712207-3e7c-4dc2-be36-9b1a94f34c24@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20121031T163022-211@post.gmane.org>

 <andrew.mackeith <at> 3ds.com> writes:

> When formatting a float using the exponential format, the rounding is
> different in Python-2.6 and Python-2.7. See example below.  Is this
> intentional?

Yes, in a sense.  Python <= 2.6 uses the OS-provided functionality (e.g., the C
library's strtod, dtoa and sprintf functions) to do float-to-string and
string-to-float conversions, and hence behaves differently from platform to
platform.  In particular, it's common for near halfway cases (like the one
you're looking at here) and tiny numbers to give different results on different
platforms.  Python >= 2.7 has its own built-in code for performing
float-to-string and string-to-float conversions, so those conversions are
platform- independent and always correctly rounded.  (Nitpick: it's still
theoretically possible for Python 2.7 to use the OS code if it can't determine
the floating-point format, or if it can't find a way to ensure the proper FPU
settings, but I don't know of any current platforms where that's the case.)

> Is there any way of forcing the Python-2.6 behavior (for compatibility
> reasons when testing)?

Not easily, no.

--
Mark




From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 11:44:10 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 09:44:10 -0600
Subject: sort order for strings of digits
In-Reply-To: <k6rfdu$rgn$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <k6rfdu$rgn$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnfCHEcB_JyO28HrS9X0v2Cd8GzVkaL3USN2s-goxvkqw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 9:17 AM, djc <djc at kangoo.invalid> wrote:
> The best I can think of is to split the input sequence into two lists, sort
> each and then join them.

In the example you have given they already seem to be split, so you
could just do:

sorted(n, key=int) + sorted(s)

If that's not really the case, then you could construct (str, int)
tuples as sort keys:

sorted(n+s, key=lambda x: ('', int(x)) if x.isdigit() else (x, -1))

Note that the empty string sorts before all numbers here, which may or
may not be desirable.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 31 12:01:41 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 16:01:41 +0000
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <5090f867$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <6998a955-7b34-4f4f-b8d6-62d1028f7561@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2986.1351482209.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<4c024364-84df-403b-8b9e-4a4c8f06121c@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2991.1351484760.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cd108b9d-e951-463e-8e50-a5a024a27c7f@googlegroups.com>
	<508e6649$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<508E1BC9.3000308@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CAPTjJmo3uK0Hfu4h78AkM6BPXXuU9sMuc74QeKFrW4jp54MGMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<508EC428.5080808@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALvWhxvJYfSatk7wg8zcBUHm5rHqeqqJss=N2vjCShGy9XoD5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=5xkJ-SjzvHDStdGSnwHV-u+_QjZJLNJ8+tAs_L0k-qA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwzid=YUQt_PRMjA1rzFw=_0S+e7CxFfy3junuH_iD8+ypCQw@mail.gmail.com>
	<508FFCD6.3010305@stoneleaf.us>
	<CALwzidnsn=84j9t8JVgyUgKadigYccMfHo80veq0XBdtC3Sgww@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3105.1351632899.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5090f867$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <k6ri1q$2rn$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 31/10/2012 10:07, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 21:33:32 +0000, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>
>> Absolutely bloody typical, turned down because of an idiot.  Who the
>> hell is Tim Peters anyway? :)
>
> I see your smiley, but for the benefit of those who actually don't know
> who Tim Peters, a.k.a. the Timbot, is, he is one of the gurus of Python
> history. He invented Python's astonishingly excellent sort routine,
> Timsort, and popularised the famous adverbial phrase signoffs you will
> see in a lot of older posts.
>
> Basically, he is in the pantheon of early Python demigods.
>
> stop-me-before-i-start-gushing-over-the-timbot-ly y'rs,
>

4 / 10, must try harder, the omission of the Zen of Python is considered 
a very serious matter :)

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From raj at nytpartners.com  Wed Oct 31 14:41:51 2012
From: raj at nytpartners.com (raj at nytpartners.com)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 11:41:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need 4 Python Developer // Times Sq - New York // 15+ Months Contract.
Message-ID: <36826fab-5c94-450e-ad6f-0eb8b2962c7c@googlegroups.com>

Hi Friends,
 
Hope you are doing great.
 
This is Rajesh from NYTP.
I wanted to let you know about New Job opening in Times Sq - New York. It is a 15+ months Contract.

Role                 :  Python Developer
Location           :  Times Sq - New York
Duration           :  15+ Months Contract

Positions         :  4
 
Project currently in the Development Phase

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?	4-6 years of development experience with object-oriented languages
?	3+ years of Python development experience
?	Knowledge of HTML5 and Javascript is a plus
?	Experience developing applications for AWS
?	Agile development experience a plus
?	Demonstrated ability to work in a team environment
?	Good unit testing practices
?	Good communication and documentation skills
?	Willingness to interact and work with different teams across organizations in different time zones
?	Willingness to work overtime and weekends if required
?	Bachelor?s degree in Computer Science
?	Required Skills:
?	Strong in object-oriented concepts and Python language
?	Experience developing web applications with Tornado
?	Working knowledge of software design patterns
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?	Knowledgeable about MongoDB and REDIS 

If you are available and interested in this positions. Please send me an updated resume. Please feel free to contact me for any further information.
_______________________________________
 
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Rajesh Kaluri
332 Jefferson Rd.
Rochester, NY 14623 
Phone: (201) 680 - 0200 x7023                                                                           
Fax: (201) 474 - 8533
raj at nytpartners.com
www.nytp.com
Profile : http://in.linkedin.com/pub/k-rajeshwar/8/51a/13

 



From rurpy at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 31 15:32:57 2012
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 12:32:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups
In-Reply-To: <um2ks.4546$%z6.625@newsfe04.iad>
References: <fb821c53-c786-4795-8f57-70d2eede03fe@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.774.1347735926.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<52847c35-388c-4758-b72d-1d1859b788a3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.776.1347740899.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8370412f-5176-45ff-87eb-72cbca5149d5@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.781.1347774837.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cdf072b2-7359-4417-b1e4-d984e4317091@googlegroups.com>
	<5055a1a6$0$29981$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<4f9d9a0b-539a-4b6a-af3e-b02d1f4006ee@googlegroups.com>
	<87wqzum7h6.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> <um2ks.4546$%z6.625@newsfe04.iad>
Message-ID: <a27d955b-751c-46c2-ba85-0ee549a1abb4@googlegroups.com>

On 10/30/2012 11:07 PM, Robert Miles wrote:> On 9/16/2012 8:18 AM, Ben Finney wrote:
>> ???????? ?????? <nikos.gr33k at gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Iam sorry i didnt do that on purpose and i dont know how this is done.
>>>
>>> Iam positng via google groups using chrome, thats all i know.
>>
>> It is becoming quite clear that some change has happened recently to
>> Google Groups that makes posts coming from there rather more obnoxious
>> than before. And there doesn't seem to be much its users can do except
>> use something else.

You (BF) are wrong that there "doesn't seem to be much its users
can do..." and I explained why previously.  However, since you have
advocated killfiling anyone using GG (which I do) you probably didn't
see my post.  If you choose intentional ignorance that is your choice
but you do a disservice to the community by advocating that others
do the same.

(Officer, I don't deserve this ticket because I couldn't see the 
traffic signal was red; I had my eyes closed. :-)

> You're probably referring to their change in the way they handle
> end-of-lines, which is now incompatible with most newsreaders,
> especially with multiple levels of quoting.

It's a minor pain to fix this when posting, but

1. It is fixable (and previous post of mine gave a couple ways)
2. The double spacing is obvious in Google's compose window
 so if one posts anyway, it is a matter of laziness.

> The incompatibility tends to insert a blank line after every line.
> With multiple levels of quoting, this gives blank line groups that
> often roughly double in size for every level of quoting.
> 
> Robert Miles


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 31 15:35:00 2012
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 12:35:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: datetime issue
In-Reply-To: <k6rf2k$2sd$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <fb821c53-c786-4795-8f57-70d2eede03fe@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.774.1347735926.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<52847c35-388c-4758-b72d-1d1859b788a3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.776.1347740899.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8370412f-5176-45ff-87eb-72cbca5149d5@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.781.1347774837.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cdf072b2-7359-4417-b1e4-d984e4317091@googlegroups.com>
	<5055a1a6$0$29981$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<4f9d9a0b-539a-4b6a-af3e-b02d1f4006ee@googlegroups.com>
	<k6rf2k$2sd$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <fe7c973c-a15c-449a-9621-622996dde824@googlegroups.com>

On 10/31/2012 09:11 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:> On 2012-09-16, ???????? ?????? <nikos.gr33k at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Iam positng via google groups using chrome, thats all i know.
> 
> Learn something else.  Google Groups is seriously and permanently
> broken, and all posts from Google Groups are filtered out and ignored
> by many people (including myself -- I only saw this because somebody
> else replied to it).

"Broken"?  Yes.  But so is every piece of software in one way 
or another.  Thunderbird is one of the most perpetually buggy
pierces of software I have ever used on a continuing basis.

"Seriously"?  That's pretty subjective.  I manage to use it
without major problems so it couldn't be that bad.  I posted
previously on how to use it without the double posts or the
double spacing.

"Permenantly"?  Your ability to foretell the future leaves me
in awe.  :-)

Feel free to filter whatever you want but be aware than in 
doing so you risk missing information that could help you
avoid disseminating erroneous info.  Of course, carrying out
some kind of private war against Google Groups may be more
important to you than that... 


From andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com  Wed Oct 31 16:16:22 2012
From: andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com (Andrew Robinson)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 13:16:22 -0700
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid=_1TCQC5JryemVfVpBLWq=qZwy4hRjCPA5ha0vSm3=VA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <509053F2.6020900@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzidnQ2bUdMp8c0xNomabcLHZBBtr_DYSSzvhz3jqeYNkWkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50912ADC.2020401@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzid=_1TCQC5JryemVfVpBLWq=qZwy4hRjCPA5ha0vSm3=VA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50918716.3080305@r3dsolutions.com>

On 10/31/2012 02:20 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:42 AM, Andrew Robinson wrote:
>
>     Then; I'd note:  The non-goofy purpose of slice is to hold three
>     data values;  They are either numbers or None.  These *normally*
>     encountered values can't create a memory loop.
>     So, FOR AS LONG, as the object representing slice does not contain
>     an explicit GC pair; I move that we mandate (yes, in the current
>     python implementation, even as a *fix*) that its named members may
>     not be assigned any objects other than None or numbers....
>
>     eg: Lists would be forbidden....
>
>     Since functions, and subclasses, can be test evaluated by int(
>     the_thing_to_try ) and *[] can too,
>     generality need not be lost for generating nothing or numbers.
>
>
> PEP 357 requires that anything implementing the __index__ special 
> method be allowed for slicing sequences (and also that __index__ be 
> used for the conversion).  For the most part, that includes ints and 
> numpy integer types, but other code could be doing esoteric things 
> with it.

I missed something... (but then that's why we're still talking about it...)

Reading the PEP, it notes that *only* integers (or longs) are permitted 
in slice syntax.
(Overlooking None, of course... which is strange...)

The PEP gives the only exceptions as objects with method "__index__".

Automatically, then, an empty list is forbidden (in slice syntax).
However,  What you did, was circumvent the PEP by passing an empty list 
directly to slice(), and avoiding running it through slice syntax 
processing.

So...
Is there documentation suggesting that a slice object is meant to be 
used to hold anything other than what comes from processing a valid 
slice syntax [::]??. (we know it can be done, but that's a different Q.)


> The change would be backward-incompatible in any case, since there is 
> certainly code out there that uses non-numeric slices -- one example 
> has already been given in this thread.
Hmmm.....

Now, I'm thinking -- The purpose of index(), specifically, is to notify 
when something which is not an integer may be used as an index;  You've 
helpfully noted that index() also *converts* those objects into numbers.

Ethan Fullman mentioned that he used the names of fields, "instead of 
having to remember the _offsets_"; Which means that his values _do 
convert_ to offset numbers

His example was actually given in slice syntax notation [::].
Hence, his objects must have an index() method, correct?.

Therefore, I still see no reason why it is permissible to assign 
non-numerical (non None) items
as an element of slice().  Or, let me re-word that more clearly -- I see 
no reason that slice named members when used as originally intended 
would ever need to be assigned a value which is not *already* converted 
to a number by index().  By definition, if it can't be coerced, it isn't 
a number.

A side note:
At 80% less overhead, and three slots -- slice is rather attractive to 
store RGB values in for a picture!  But, I don't think anyone would have 
a problem saying "No, we won't support that, even if you do do it!

So, what's the psychology behind allowing slice() to hold objects which 
are not converted to ints/longs in the first place?

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From ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com  Wed Oct 31 17:04:38 2012
From: ramit.prasad at jpmorgan.com (Prasad, Ramit)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 21:04:38 +0000
Subject: date and time comparison how to
In-Reply-To: <508F1973.2030907@digipen.edu>
References: <50e576ea-2ebe-4340-954e-6c23b5885680@googlegroups.com>
	<508F1973.2030907@digipen.edu>
Message-ID: <5B80DD153D7D744689F57F4FB69AF4741676AA32@SCACMX008.exchad.jpmchase.net>

Gary Herron wrote:
> On 10/29/2012 04:13 PM, noydb wrote:
> > All,
> >
> > I need help with a date and time comparison.
> >
> > Say a user enters a date-n-time and a file on disk.  I want to compare the date and time of the file to the
> entered date-n-time; if the file is newer than the entered date-n-time, add the file to a list to process.
> >
> > How best to do?  I have looked at the datetime module, tried a few things, no luck.
> >
> > Is os.stat a part of it?  Tried, not sure of the output, the st_mtime/st_ctime doesnt jive with the file's
> correct date and time.  ??
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated!
> 
> Use the datetime module (distributed with Python) to compare date/times.
> 
> You can turn a filesystem time into a datetime with something like the
> following:
>                  import datetime, os, stat
>                  mtime = os.lstat(filename)[stat.ST_MTIME]   // the
> files modification time
>                  dt = datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp(mtime)
> 

You could also write that as:

datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp( os.path.getmtime( path ) )


Ramit P


This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 17:20:33 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 15:20:33 -0600
Subject: Negative array indicies and slice()
In-Reply-To: <50912ADC.2020401@r3dsolutions.com>
References: <509053F2.6020900@r3dsolutions.com>
	<CALwzidnQ2bUdMp8c0xNomabcLHZBBtr_DYSSzvhz3jqeYNkWkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50912ADC.2020401@r3dsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=_1TCQC5JryemVfVpBLWq=qZwy4hRjCPA5ha0vSm3=VA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:42 AM, Andrew Robinson
<andrew3 at r3dsolutions.com>wrote:

> Then; I'd note:  The non-goofy purpose of slice is to hold three data
> values;  They are either numbers or None.  These *normally* encountered
> values can't create a memory loop.
> So, FOR AS LONG, as the object representing slice does not contain an
> explicit GC pair; I move that we mandate (yes, in the current python
> implementation, even as a *fix*) that its named members may not be assigned
> any objects other than None or numbers....
>
> eg: Lists would be forbidden....
>
> Since functions, and subclasses, can be test evaluated by int(
> the_thing_to_try ) and *[] can too,
> generality need not be lost for generating nothing or numbers.
>

PEP 357 requires that anything implementing the __index__ special method be
allowed for slicing sequences (and also that __index__ be used for the
conversion).  For the most part, that includes ints and numpy integer
types, but other code could be doing esoteric things with it.

The change would be backward-incompatible in any case, since there is
certainly code out there that uses non-numeric slices -- one example has
already been given in this thread.
And more wonderful yet, when I do extended slice replacement -- it gives me
results beyond my wildest imaginings!


> >>> a=[0,1,2,3,4,5]
> >>> a[4:5]=range( 0, 3 ) # Size origin=1, Size dest =3
> >>> a
> [0, 1, 2, 3, 0, 1, 2, 5]  # Insert on top of replacement
> >>>
> But !!!NOT!!! if I do it this way:
> >>> a[4]=range( 0, 3 )
> >>> a
> [0, 1, 2, 3, range(0, 3), 1, 2, 5]
> >>>
>

That's nothing to do with range or Python 3.  It's part of the difference
between slice assignment and index assignment.  The former unpacks an
iterable, and the latter assigns a single object.  You'd get the same
behavior with lists:

>>> a = list(range(6))
>>> a[4:5] = list(range(3))
>>> a
[0, 1, 2, 3, 0, 1, 2, 5]
>>> a = list(range(6))
>>> a[4] = list(range(3))
>>> a
[0, 1, 2, 3, [0, 1, 2], 5]

Slice assignment unpacks the list; index assignment assigns the list itself
at the index.
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From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 31 17:33:09 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 21:33:09 +0000
Subject: sort order for strings of digits
In-Reply-To: <r6o298hjti156vakv253ptce9hs9u9ge4d@invalid.netcom.com>
References: <k6rfdu$rgn$1@news.albasani.net>
	<r6o298hjti156vakv253ptce9hs9u9ge4d@invalid.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <k6s5fc$pq1$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 31/10/2012 18:17, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>
> 	Why -- I doubt Python 3.x .sort() and sorted() have removed the
> optional key and cmp keywords.
>

Nope.  I'm busy porting my own code from 2.7 to 3.3 and cmp seems to be 
very dead.

This doesn't help either.

c:\Users\Mark\Cash\Python>2to3.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "C:\Python33\Tools\Scripts\2to3.py", line 3, in <module>
     from lib2to3.main import main
ImportError: No module named main

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 31 17:38:19 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 21:38:19 +0000
Subject: datetime issue
In-Reply-To: <fe7c973c-a15c-449a-9621-622996dde824@googlegroups.com>
References: <fb821c53-c786-4795-8f57-70d2eede03fe@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.774.1347735926.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<52847c35-388c-4758-b72d-1d1859b788a3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.776.1347740899.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8370412f-5176-45ff-87eb-72cbca5149d5@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.781.1347774837.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cdf072b2-7359-4417-b1e4-d984e4317091@googlegroups.com>
	<5055a1a6$0$29981$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<4f9d9a0b-539a-4b6a-af3e-b02d1f4006ee@googlegroups.com>
	<k6rf2k$2sd$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<fe7c973c-a15c-449a-9621-622996dde824@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <k6s5p0$s8e$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 31/10/2012 19:35, rurpy at yahoo.com wrote:
> On 10/31/2012 09:11 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:> On 2012-09-16, ???????? ?????? <nikos.gr33k at gmail.com> wrote:.
>
> "Broken"?  Yes.  But so is every piece of software in one way
> or another.  Thunderbird is one of the most perpetually buggy
> pierces of software I have ever used on a continuing basis
>

Please provide evidence that Thunderbird is buggy.  I use it quite 
happily, don't have problems, and have never seen anybody complaining 
about it.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 18:24:21 2012
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 16:24:21 -0600
Subject: sort order for strings of digits
In-Reply-To: <k6s5fc$pq1$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <k6rfdu$rgn$1@news.albasani.net>
	<r6o298hjti156vakv253ptce9hs9u9ge4d@invalid.netcom.com>
	<k6s5fc$pq1$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CALwzidn9iVBUK9eLbuhfSBSA_Y_FqjhCmvx7JTTNyxXSJgS-Fg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk>wrote:

> Nope.  I'm busy porting my own code from 2.7 to 3.3 and cmp seems to be
> very dead.
>
> This doesn't help either.
>
> c:\Users\Mark\Cash\Python>**2to3.py
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Python33\Tools\Scripts\**2to3.py", line 3, in <module>
>     from lib2to3.main import main
> ImportError: No module named main
>

Perhaps you have a sys.path conflict?

Use functools.cmp_to_key for porting cmp functions.  "sort(x, my_cmp)"
becomes "sort(x, key=cmp_to_key(my_cmp))"

The cmp builtin is also gone.  If you need it, the suggested replacement
for "cmp(a, b)" is "(b < a) - (a < b)".

Cheers,
Ian
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From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Oct 31 18:33:16 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 31 Oct 2012 22:33:16 GMT
Subject: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups
References: <fb821c53-c786-4795-8f57-70d2eede03fe@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.774.1347735926.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<52847c35-388c-4758-b72d-1d1859b788a3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.776.1347740899.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8370412f-5176-45ff-87eb-72cbca5149d5@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.781.1347774837.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cdf072b2-7359-4417-b1e4-d984e4317091@googlegroups.com>
	<5055a1a6$0$29981$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<4f9d9a0b-539a-4b6a-af3e-b02d1f4006ee@googlegroups.com>
	<87wqzum7h6.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> <um2ks.4546$%z6.625@newsfe04.iad>
	<a27d955b-751c-46c2-ba85-0ee549a1abb4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5091a72b$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 12:32:57 -0700, rurpy wrote:

[...]
>> You're probably referring to their change in the way they handle
>> end-of-lines, which is now incompatible with most newsreaders,
>> especially with multiple levels of quoting.
> 
> It's a minor pain to fix this when posting, but
> 
> 1. It is fixable (and previous post of mine gave a couple ways) 2. The
> double spacing is obvious in Google's compose window
>  so if one posts anyway, it is a matter of laziness.

I don't killfile merely for posting from Gmail or Google Groups, but 
regarding your second point, it has seemed to me for some years now that 
Gmail is the new Hotmail, which was the new AOL. Whenever there is an 
inane, lazy, mind-numbingly stupid question or post, chances are 
extremely high that the sender has a Gmail address.



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Oct 31 19:09:52 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 31 Oct 2012 23:09:52 GMT
Subject: sort order for strings of digits
References: <k6rfdu$rgn$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <5091afc0$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 15:17:14 +0000, djc wrote:

> The best I can think of is to split the input sequence into two lists,
> sort each and then join them.

According to your example code, you don't have to split the input because 
you already have two lists, one filled with numbers and one filled with 
strings.

But I think that what you actually have is a single list of strings, and 
you are supposed to sort the strings such that they come in numeric order 
first, then alphanumerical. E.g.:

['9', '1000', 'abc2', '55', '1', 'abc', '55a', '1a']
=> ['1', '1a', '9', '55', '55a', '1000', 'abc', 'abc2']

At least that is what I would expect as the useful thing to do when 
sorting.

The trick is to take each string and split it into a leading number and a 
trailing alphanumeric string. Either part may be "empty". Here's a pure 
Python solution:

from sys import maxsize  # use maxint in Python 2
def split(s):
    for i, c in enumerate(s):
        if not c.isdigit():
            break
    else:  # aligned with the FOR, not the IF
        return (int(s), '')
    return (int(s[:i] or maxsize), s[i:])

Now sort using this as a key function:

py> L = ['9', '1000', 'abc2', '55', '1', 'abc', '55a', '1a']
py> sorted(L, key=split)
['1', '1a', '9', '55', '55a', '1000', 'abc', 'abc2']


The above solution is not quite general:

* it doesn't handle negative numbers or numbers with a decimal point;

* it doesn't handle the empty string in any meaningful way;

* in practice, you may or may not want to ignore leading whitespace,
  or trailing whitespace after the number part;

* there's a subtle bug if a string contains a very large numeric prefix,
  finding and fixing that is left as an exercise.



-- 
Steven


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Oct 31 19:44:14 2012
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 31 Oct 2012 23:44:14 GMT
Subject: sort order for strings of digits
References: <k6rfdu$rgn$1@news.albasani.net>
	<r6o298hjti156vakv253ptce9hs9u9ge4d@invalid.netcom.com>
	<k6s5fc$pq1$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CALwzidn9iVBUK9eLbuhfSBSA_Y_FqjhCmvx7JTTNyxXSJgS-Fg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3130.1351724723.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5091b7cd$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 19:05:17 -0400, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

>> The cmp builtin is also gone.  If you need it, the suggested
>> replacement for "cmp(a, b)" is "(b < a) - (a < b)".
>>
> 	OUCH... Just another reason for my to hang onto the 2.x series as
> long as possible 

On the contrary. If you are using cmp with sort, your sorts are slow, and 
you should upgrade to using a key function as soon as possible.

For small lists, you may not notice, but for large lists using a 
comparison function is a BAD IDEA.

Here's an example: sorting a list of numbers by absolute value.

py> L = [5, -6, 1, -2, 9, -8, 4, 3, -7, 2, -3]
py> sorted(L, key=abs)
[1, -2, 2, 3, -3, 4, 5, -6, -7, -8, 9]
py> sorted(L, lambda a, b: cmp(abs(a), abs(b)))
[1, -2, 2, 3, -3, 4, 5, -6, -7, -8, 9]

But the amount of work done is radically different. Let's temporarily 
shadow the built-ins with patched versions:

py> _abs = abs
py> _abs, _cmp = abs, cmp
py> c1 = c2 = 0
py> def abs(x):
...     global c1
...     c1 += 1
...     return _abs(x)
...
py> def cmp(a, b):
...     global c2
...     c2 += 1
...     return _cmp(a, b)
...

Now we can see just how much work is done under the hood using a key 
function vs a comparison function:

py> sorted(L, key=abs)
[1, -2, 2, 3, -3, 4, 5, -6, -7, -8, 9]
py> c1
11

So the key function is called once for each item in the list. But:


py> c1 = 0  # reset the count
py> sorted(L, lambda a, b: cmp(abs(a), abs(b)))
[1, -2, 2, 3, -3, 4, 5, -6, -7, -8, 9]
py> c1, c2
(54, 27)

The comparison function is called 27 times for a list of nine items (a 
average of 2.5 calls to cmp per item), and abs is called twice for each 
call to cmp. (Well, duh.)

If the list is bigger, it gets worse:

py> c2 = 0
py> x = sorted(L*10, lambda a, b: cmp(abs(a), abs(b)))
py> c2
592

That's an average of 5.4 calls to cmp per item. And it gets even worse as 
the list gets bigger.

As your lists get bigger, the amount of work done calling the comparison 
function gets ever bigger still. Sorting large lists with a comparison 
function is SLOOOW.

py> del abs, cmp  # remove the monkey-patched versions
py> L = L*1000000
py> with Timer():
...     x = sorted(L, key=abs)
...
time taken: 9.165448 seconds
py> with Timer():
...     x = sorted(L, lambda a, b: cmp(abs(a), abs(b)))
...
time taken: 63.579679 seconds


The Timer() context manager used can be found here:

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577896



-- 
Steven


From djc at news.invalid  Wed Oct 31 19:45:20 2012
From: djc at news.invalid (DJC)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 23:45:20 +0000
Subject: sort order for strings of digits
In-Reply-To: <5091afc0$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <k6rfdu$rgn$1@news.albasani.net>
	<5091afc0$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <k6sd6j$ie7$1@dont-email.me>

On 31/10/12 23:09, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 15:17:14 +0000, djc wrote:
>
>> The best I can think of is to split the input sequence into two lists,
>> sort each and then join them.
>
> According to your example code, you don't have to split the input because
> you already have two lists, one filled with numbers and one filled with
> strings.

Sorry for the confusion, the pair of strings was just a way of testing 
variations on the input. So a sequence with any combination of strings 
that can be read as numbers and strings of chars that don't look like 
numbers (even if that string includes digits) is the expected input

>
> But I think that what you actually have is a single list of strings, and
> you are supposed to sort the strings such that they come in numeric order
> first, then alphanumerical. E.g.:
>
> ['9', '1000', 'abc2', '55', '1', 'abc', '55a', '1a']
> => ['1', '1a', '9', '55', '55a', '1000', 'abc', 'abc2']

Not quite, what I want is to ensure that if the strings look like 
numbers they are placed in numerical order. ie 1 2 3 10 100 not 1 10 100 
2 3. Cases where a string has some leading digits can be treated as 
strings like any other.

> At least that is what I would expect as the useful thing to do when
> sorting.

Well it depends on the use case. In my case the strings are column and 
row labels for a report. I want them to be presented in a convenient to 
read sequence. Which the lexical sorting of the strings that look like 
numbers is not. I want a reasonable do-what-i-mean default sort order 
that can handle whatever strings are used.


>
> The trick is to take each string and split it into a leading number and a
> trailing alphanumeric string. Either part may be "empty". Here's a pure
> Python solution:
>
> from sys import maxsize  # use maxint in Python 2
> def split(s):
>      for i, c in enumerate(s):
>          if not c.isdigit():
>              break
>      else:  # aligned with the FOR, not the IF
>          return (int(s), '')
>      return (int(s[:i] or maxsize), s[i:])
>
> Now sort using this as a key function:
>
> py> L = ['9', '1000', 'abc2', '55', '1', 'abc', '55a', '1a']
> py> sorted(L, key=split)
> ['1', '1a', '9', '55', '55a', '1000', 'abc', 'abc2']
>
>
> The above solution is not quite general:
>
> * it doesn't handle negative numbers or numbers with a decimal point;
>
> * it doesn't handle the empty string in any meaningful way;
>
> * in practice, you may or may not want to ignore leading whitespace,
>    or trailing whitespace after the number part;
>
> * there's a subtle bug if a string contains a very large numeric prefix,
>    finding and fixing that is left as an exercise.

That looks more than  general enough for my purposes! I will experiment 
along those lines, thank you.




From arnodel at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 19:58:25 2012
From: arnodel at gmail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 23:58:25 +0000
Subject: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups
In-Reply-To: <5091a72b$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <fb821c53-c786-4795-8f57-70d2eede03fe@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.774.1347735926.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<52847c35-388c-4758-b72d-1d1859b788a3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.776.1347740899.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8370412f-5176-45ff-87eb-72cbca5149d5@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.781.1347774837.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cdf072b2-7359-4417-b1e4-d984e4317091@googlegroups.com>
	<5055a1a6$0$29981$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<4f9d9a0b-539a-4b6a-af3e-b02d1f4006ee@googlegroups.com>
	<87wqzum7h6.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
	<um2ks.4546$%z6.625@newsfe04.iad>
	<a27d955b-751c-46c2-ba85-0ee549a1abb4@googlegroups.com>
	<5091a72b$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ6cK1Y8aL=kcGSbBXV=e_SbOYo0hE4KfBBHnmDt1Hdb6Fo_gg@mail.gmail.com>

On 31 October 2012 22:33, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
[...]
> I don't killfile merely for posting from Gmail

And we are humbly grateful.

-- 
Arnaud


From robertmiles at teranews.com  Wed Oct 31 20:09:35 2012
From: robertmiles at teranews.com (Robert Miles)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 19:09:35 -0500
Subject: datetime issue
In-Reply-To: <fe7c973c-a15c-449a-9621-622996dde824@googlegroups.com>
References: <fb821c53-c786-4795-8f57-70d2eede03fe@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.774.1347735926.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<52847c35-388c-4758-b72d-1d1859b788a3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.776.1347740899.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8370412f-5176-45ff-87eb-72cbca5149d5@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.781.1347774837.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cdf072b2-7359-4417-b1e4-d984e4317091@googlegroups.com>
	<5055a1a6$0$29981$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<4f9d9a0b-539a-4b6a-af3e-b02d1f4006ee@googlegroups.com>
	<k6rf2k$2sd$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<fe7c973c-a15c-449a-9621-622996dde824@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55jks.3164$sz4.2025@newsfe11.iad>

On 10/31/2012 2:35 PM, rurpy at yahoo.com wrote:
> On 10/31/2012 09:11 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:> On 2012-09-16, ???????? ?????? <nikos.gr33k at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Iam positng via google groups using chrome, thats all i know.
>>
>> Learn something else.  Google Groups is seriously and permanently
>> broken, and all posts from Google Groups are filtered out and ignored
>> by many people (including myself -- I only saw this because somebody
>> else replied to it).
>
> "Seriously"?  That's pretty subjective.  I manage to use it
> without major problems so it couldn't be that bad.  I posted
> previously on how to use it without the double posts or the
> double spacing.

If you're using it for reasonable purposes, you won't encounter
its worst flaw.  It's much too easy for spammers to use for
posting spam.  I'd estimate that about 99% of the world's
newsgroups spam in English is posted through Google Groups.



From robertmiles at teranews.com  Wed Oct 31 20:23:19 2012
From: robertmiles at teranews.com (Robert Miles)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 19:23:19 -0500
Subject: datetime issue
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3128.1351719534.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <fb821c53-c786-4795-8f57-70d2eede03fe@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.774.1347735926.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<52847c35-388c-4758-b72d-1d1859b788a3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.776.1347740899.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8370412f-5176-45ff-87eb-72cbca5149d5@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.781.1347774837.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cdf072b2-7359-4417-b1e4-d984e4317091@googlegroups.com>
	<5055a1a6$0$29981$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<4f9d9a0b-539a-4b6a-af3e-b02d1f4006ee@googlegroups.com>
	<k6rf2k$2sd$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<fe7c973c-a15c-449a-9621-622996dde824@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3128.1351719534.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Zhjks.1784$Uu4.470@newsfe12.iad>

On 10/31/2012 4:38 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 31/10/2012 19:35, rurpy at yahoo.com wrote:
>> On 10/31/2012 09:11 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:> On 2012-09-16, ????????
>> ?????? <nikos.gr33k at gmail.com> wrote:.
>>
>> "Broken"?  Yes.  But so is every piece of software in one way
>> or another.  Thunderbird is one of the most perpetually buggy
>> pierces of software I have ever used on a continuing basis
>>
>
> Please provide evidence that Thunderbird is buggy.  I use it quite
> happily, don't have problems, and have never seen anybody complaining
> about it.

Why should they complain about it in this newsgroup?

Most of the people who complain about it know that complaining
in newsgroup mozilla.support.thunderbird is much more likely
to get any problems fixed.  Rather few newsgroups servers are
allowed to carry that newsgroup; news.mozilla.org is one of them.

The newsgroups section of Thunderbird seems to have more bugs
than the email section, partly because there are more volunteers
interested in working on the email section.



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 31 20:30:51 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2012 00:30:51 +0000
Subject: sort order for strings of digits
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidn9iVBUK9eLbuhfSBSA_Y_FqjhCmvx7JTTNyxXSJgS-Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <k6rfdu$rgn$1@news.albasani.net>
	<r6o298hjti156vakv253ptce9hs9u9ge4d@invalid.netcom.com>
	<k6s5fc$pq1$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CALwzidn9iVBUK9eLbuhfSBSA_Y_FqjhCmvx7JTTNyxXSJgS-Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k6sfrv$il2$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 31/10/2012 22:24, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
>
>> Nope.  I'm busy porting my own code from 2.7 to 3.3 and cmp seems to be
>> very dead.
>>
>> This doesn't help either.
>>
>> c:\Users\Mark\Cash\Python>**2to3.py
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>    File "C:\Python33\Tools\Scripts\**2to3.py", line 3, in <module>
>>      from lib2to3.main import main
>> ImportError: No module named main
>>
>
> Perhaps you have a sys.path conflict?

Correct, now fixed, thanks.

>
> Use functools.cmp_to_key for porting cmp functions.  "sort(x, my_cmp)"
> becomes "sort(x, key=cmp_to_key(my_cmp))"
>
> The cmp builtin is also gone.  If you need it, the suggested replacement
> for "cmp(a, b)" is "(b < a) - (a < b)".

As it's my own small code base I've blown away all references to cmp, 
it's rich comparisons all the way.

>
> Cheers,
> Ian
>

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 31 20:36:30 2012
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2012 00:36:30 +0000
Subject: datetime issue
In-Reply-To: <Zhjks.1784$Uu4.470@newsfe12.iad>
References: <fb821c53-c786-4795-8f57-70d2eede03fe@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.774.1347735926.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<52847c35-388c-4758-b72d-1d1859b788a3@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.776.1347740899.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<8370412f-5176-45ff-87eb-72cbca5149d5@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.781.1347774837.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<cdf072b2-7359-4417-b1e4-d984e4317091@googlegroups.com>
	<5055a1a6$0$29981$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
	<4f9d9a0b-539a-4b6a-af3e-b02d1f4006ee@googlegroups.com>
	<k6rf2k$2sd$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<fe7c973c-a15c-449a-9621-622996dde824@googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.3128.1351719534.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<Zhjks.1784$Uu4.470@newsfe12.iad>
Message-ID: <k6sg6f$l2t$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 01/11/2012 00:23, Robert Miles wrote:
> On 10/31/2012 4:38 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>> On 31/10/2012 19:35, rurpy at yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On 10/31/2012 09:11 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:> On 2012-09-16, ????????
>>> ?????? <nikos.gr33k at gmail.com> wrote:.
>>>
>>> "Broken"?  Yes.  But so is every piece of software in one way
>>> or another.  Thunderbird is one of the most perpetually buggy
>>> pierces of software I have ever used on a continuing basis
>>>
>>
>> Please provide evidence that Thunderbird is buggy.  I use it quite
>> happily, don't have problems, and have never seen anybody complaining
>> about it.
>
> Why should they complain about it in this newsgroup?

I'm reading all the Python *MAILING LISTS* that I'm interested in with 
Thunderbird.  Here.  Now.  So do a lot of other people.  If they weren't 
happy with it, they'd be stating so here when this type of discussion 
came up.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.



From robertmiles at teranews.com  Wed Oct 31 20:40:55 2012
From: robertmiles at teranews.com (Robert Miles)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 19:40:55 -0500
Subject: Python garbage collector/memory manager behaving strangely
In-Reply-To: <mailman.817.1347847997.27098.python-list@python.org>
References: <CEE8C35195DB944D9C75ABB15A04193B14E77085@EHKG17P32001A.csfb.cs-group.com>
	<mailman.817.1347847997.27098.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uyjks.8230$pn7.2199@newsfe18.iad>

On 9/16/2012 9:12 PM, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 09/16/2012 09:07 PM, Jadhav, Alok wrote:
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a simple program which reads a large file containing few million
>> rows, parses each row (`numpy array`) and converts into an array of
>> doubles (`python array`) and later writes into an `hdf5 file`. I repeat
>> this loop for multiple days. After reading each file, i delete all the
>> objects and call garbage collector.  When I run the program, First day
>> is parsed without any error but on the second day i get `MemoryError`. I
>> monitored the memory usage of my program, during first day of parsing,
>> memory usage is around **1.5 GB**. When the first day parsing is
>> finished, memory usage goes down to **50 MB**. Now when 2nd day starts
>> and i try to read the lines from the file I get `MemoryError`. Following
>> is the output of the program.

Is it a 32-bit program?  If so, expect the maximum amount of memory it
can use to hold the program, its current dataspace, and images of all
the files it has open to be about 3.5 GB, even if it is running on a
64-bit computer with over 4 GB of memory.  It seems that 32-bit
addresses can only refer to 4 GB of memory, and part of that 4 GB
must be used for whatever the operating system needs for running
32-bit programs.  With some of the older compilers, only 2 GB can be
used for the program; the other 2 GB is reserved for the operating system.

How practical would it be to have that program run twice a day?
The first time, it should ignore all the data for the second half
of the day; the second time, it should ignore all the data for the
first half of the day.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 20:53:06 2012
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 11:53:06 +1100
Subject: sort order for strings of digits
In-Reply-To: <5091b7cd$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <k6rfdu$rgn$1@news.albasani.net>
	<r6o298hjti156vakv253ptce9hs9u9ge4d@invalid.netcom.com>
	<k6s5fc$pq1$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<CALwzidn9iVBUK9eLbuhfSBSA_Y_FqjhCmvx7JTTNyxXSJgS-Fg@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.3130.1351724723.27098.python-list@python.org>
	<5091b7cd$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq=SxgbjYHP9rLXWt4jv=5T80ztWi17BCrhTDTgDNwJ=g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On the contrary. If you are using cmp with sort, your sorts are slow, and
> you should upgrade to using a key function as soon as possible.
>

But cmp_to_key doesn't actually improve anything. So I'm not sure how
Py3 has achieved anything; Py2 supported key-based sorting already.

ChrisA


From arnodel at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 20:59:10 2012
From: arnodel at gmail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 00:59:10 +0000
Subject: sort order for strings of digits
In-Reply-To: <5091afc0$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <k6rfdu$rgn$1@news.albasani.net>
	<5091afc0$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ6cK1biPvjf0PNe4T7Pouy4BuDX7M6kZ=eBsodM+Spz82Jcyw@mail.gmail.com>

On 31 October 2012 23:09, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> The trick is to take each string and split it into a leading number and a
> trailing alphanumeric string. Either part may be "empty". Here's a pure
> Python solution:
>
> from sys import maxsize  # use maxint in Python 2
> def split(s):
>     for i, c in enumerate(s):
>         if not c.isdigit():
>             break
>     else:  # aligned with the FOR, not the IF
>         return (int(s), '')
>     return (int(s[:i] or maxsize), s[i:])
>
> Now sort using this as a key function:
>
> py> L = ['9', '1000', 'abc2', '55', '1', 'abc', '55a', '1a']
> py> sorted(L, key=split)
> ['1', '1a', '9', '55', '55a', '1000', 'abc', 'abc2']

You don't actually need to split the string, it's enough to return a
pair consisting of the number of leading digits followed by the string
as the key. Here's an implementation using takewhile:

>>> from itertools import takewhile
>>> def prefix(s):
...     return sum(1 for c in takewhile(str.isdigit, s)) or 1000, s
...
>>> L = ['9', '1000', 'abc2', '55', '1', 'abc', '55a', '1a']
>>> sorted(L, key=prefix)
['1', '1a', '9', '55', '55a', '1000', 'abc', 'abc2']

Here's why it works:

>>> map(prefix, L)
[(1, '9'), (4, '1000'), (1000, 'abc2'), (2, '55'), (1, '1'), (1000,
'abc'), (2, '55a'), (1, '1a')]

-- 
Arnaud